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Introduce yourself / The Return
« on: January 30, 2013, 04:53:25 AM »
So after 3 years, im back... in those 3 years, nothing at the site has changed. Im bringing this up simply because there is a big issue with how these "investigations" are being carried out.

What the investigations consist of:

- Quote mining
- Missinterpreted "clues"
- Overreaction
- Confirmation bias
- Lack of sensible debate
And probably the most important part
- Rejection of facts and common sense

What the site NEEDS:

- Objectivness in everything
- Rational discussion of pictures/quotes/evidence
- A willingness to accept new knowledge

So what do i mean by all this? And why am i bothering in the first place? Well i like to think of myself as a Philosophical Scientist, in terms of the way a view the world and the things in it, for example you cannot obtain truth without looking at the evidence and you cannot look at the evidence without logically working through it. In other words, Science, Truth, Knowledge, History and Philosophy are what matter the most and with MJ being my favourite solo artist, i of course want the truth.

Now i will be honest, i am not a believer, however that does not mean MJ did not fake his death. It just means that i haven't had the time to look at what little evidence we have... and even THAT should not be a conclusive answer...
I think i speak for most people here when i say, the truth is the most important thing here and it is our duty as fans and (hopefully) rational human beings to pierce the veil and find the truth. Of course there are those who are 100% sure they know, which is all good and well, but anyone who is rational should know that in obtaining truth has a side of uncertainty and any curious mind shouldnt assume they know they answers, they should assume they dont.

So in that spirit, i am here, i assume i dont know everything and that we must look at the evidence and rationalise our beliefs according to what we know. At the present, i believe Michael Jackson is long dead, however, it is logical and completly reasonable to assume that i am wrong and so i wouldnt be honest with myself if i wasnt here debating the issue and helping discard what is slowing any sort of truth being discovered. Because it is a universal fact that if no new information is being brought in, over time things will become more random and unpredictable...

The Coroner and Autopsy Report / Re: Debunking the Autopsy Report
« on: July 20, 2010, 09:59:48 AM »
VERY interesting, but in no way is this entirely accurate... let me explain

the combination of drugs given to Michael was not fatal, as a matter of fact it is often customary to give a patient some oral benzodiazepines (depending on their heart condition) before administering Propofol to ease anxiety & pain!!!<-------
The combination was not fatal of course, but being a coroner you should have noted that the official cause of death was "Acute Propofol Intoxication, In combination with other sedatives" Medically this simply means that an overdose of propofol was the cause of death, the other sedatives all having their own effect on the body, effectively made Michael unrevivable, this was only confirmed when Dr Murray when he injected 'Anexate' into Michael's system, this reversed the effects of a Benzodiazepine drug, in other words, Propofol, Valium, Versed and Ativan, the four major drugs found in Michael's system, only the amount administered could not reverse the effects of all 4 drugs.

If Michael was using Propofol as they allegedly said for 6 week prior to June 25 every night, they would need a total of 75836.46 mg = 7583.65 ml = 7.58 liters of Propofol!!!!
 This is under the assumption that continual sedation was required for Michael to sleep, that is incorrect, Michael would not require full sedation to remain asleep.

Keep in mind that the toxicology findings confirms that the amount of Propofol found in Michael’s body was equivalent to the amount required for general anesthesia, that means that there wasn’t excessive amount of Propofol in his body
I have read this entire article, and this claim is so absurd that i feel like vomiting, the toxicology results found LETHAL amounts of propofol in Michael's body, and it clearly states that death was cause by ACUTE Propofol intoxication. The information provided in this section is highly fabricated and/or inaccurate.

Another interesting thing is that Michael's California driver's license was used to identify the body, no finger printing [they did have his finger prints in system from the 2005 booking], no note of next of kin identifying the body.
No fingerprinting??? most events from that day will remain under raps until the trial is finished, and with a drivers license confirming the identity of the body (as well as family members who DID visit the body) there was no need to take a finger print analysis.

if Michael was asystole & his pupils were fixed & dilated there wouldn't be much point in working on him for 40 minutes before finally deciding to take him to the hospital. It doesn't make sense at all!
In situations such as this, humans do some strange things, even if there is no point, EG: after JFK was shot, his wife climbed onto the back of the vehicle and grabbed a piece of his skull, she thought he could be "put back together"

it would make much better sense for Murray to want to delegate the responsibility to someone else so that someone else could be in charge of decision making & calling the death. It doesn't make sense at all, if he knew Michael is dying & he's the physician on the scene, he must have wanted to relieve himself of any responsibility or suspicion, the best & the only logical way is to give total responsibility to the EMT personnel, so that in case things go wrong, there's less blame on him. But by assuming responsibility on the scene Murray is man with a target drawn on his back
If my memory serves correct, he did exactly that, when paramedics were unable to revive Michael, he insisted on further treatment and then disappeared, hence giving the responsibility (temporarily) to UCLA medical center.

Another interesting point is that the investigators confiscated most of the above listed medications & supplies on visits made few days after the alleged date of death. Anybody with access to that house could have tampered with the evidence, took items out & have left items inside the house! How are we to rely on these finding knowing that the house was not sealed as crime scene & many people had access to it?!
Cases can take many days of collecting evidence from a scene, and the house was contained in its state for those days, therefore no further contamination of evidence, i don't see any issues with this as far as normality in a crime, but it is not text book.

It is absolutely BIZARRE to have the body refrigerated with the ETT still in place. Because rigor mortis is going to happen & also the cold is going to stiffen the muscles & it will be hard to extract the tube. ALWAYS all the medical extensions must be removed from the body before refrigerating it & before the rigor mortis sets in, otherwise you're jeopardizing the autopsy & it's accuracy, because you will be damaging the tissues & organs
Yes that is extremely bizarre! reason is, it didn't happen! those were the things observed on the examination at the hospital, not the morgue. Also rigor mortis is delayed (as well as all other decomposition processes) if a person's body is frozen.

33- It is mentioned that the body was not clothed. This is very ambiguous, as earlier in the report, when the body was in the hospital it was mentioned that the deceased was wearing a hospital gown. It is common to submit all the deceased clothing to the coroner for investigation. I doubt Michael arrived to the hospital naked & I doubt they transferred his body to the coroner’s office naked.
The clothing Michael had on (shirts etc) were cut away at his home during initial resuscitation efforts (this is standard practice) of course the details will not be known until after the trial has finished, and someone files a freedom of information request.

1.- The cavity surrounding lungs contains minimal fluid & no adhesions. [lack of adhesion means that the body hasn’t started decomposing, but lack of fluids in the cavity means that lungs are healthy, this is a contradiction to the respiratory & lung analysis that is given later in the report, if lungs weren’t healthy, there would be plenty of fluid in the cavity]
Yes that would be a contradiction... but the lungs were healthy, the only issue was an inflamed lung, which would not have caused significant fluid build up until later in decomposition.

[This is one of the most bizarre statements made in this autopsy report. In all humans the right lung weighs more than the left lung, simply due to the position of human heart, which is in most humans on the left side. In few cases which are very rare, some people have their heart on their right side as opposed to the left side & hence their left lung weighs more than the right one. But there’s no mention of it on the cardiovascular analysis of the report nor anywhere else on the autopsy report that his heart was on his right side. So I don’t know really how to justify this outrageous statement by the coroner]
In this stated context yes, but his inflamed lungs could have easily been a contributing factor in the weight problem.

3- It is mentioned that the stomach contains 70 grams of dark fluid [alright why this fluid hasn’t been analyzed? What good is an autopsy if they’re going to live substances unknown & unanalyzed?!]
It WAS analyzed, why do you say it wasn't?

1- Left kidney weighs 120 grams & right kidney weighs 140 grams. [Although the numbers are well within the normal range, the issue is that in humans the left kidney is slightly bigger & heavier than the right kidney, here again we see a different pattern. Seems like the person who wrote this report had their left & right confused!]
Once again the writer contradicts fact, number one, MJ had many genetic disorders, so the kidney's may be different and number two, depending on the foods eaten before death, one kidney may have more waste than the other.

1- The lymph nodes in body are all small & normal [being small is a very good sign; it means that the body didn’t have any autoimmune problem. This is another bizarre statement by the coroner. It is a well known fact that Michael was suffering from Lupus. Lupus is an autoimmune disease. In Lupus the lymph nodes are enlarged because they have become over active.Therefore we can conclude that this body belongs to someone who wasn't suffering from any autoimmune disease. Stay tuned for my post on Lupus & Michael Jackson.]
Michael was diagnosed with Lupus in 1988, and it was in REMISSION, which would mean normal size lymph nodes.

The Thymus is not identified. [this report gets bizarre page by page, apparently the coroner was not able to find the thymus, so the dead body is missing his thymus. The thymus is a specialized organ of the immune system
That is not bizarre at all, the Thymus begins Atrophy at the age of 13-14, and can be barely recognized by the age of 30.

2- All the tissues covering the brain are intact & without hemorrhage [the deceased suffered from cardiac arrest, which means his brain was left without oxygen for a good while, so there must be some hemorrhage on the interior tissue, the tissue closest to the brain, but the coroner indicates that all tissues are spotless!!!!!]
If there is a lack of oxygen (therefor a lack of blood) how on earth can a HEMORRHAGE occur? A cerebral Hemorrhage CANNOT be caused by a Cardiac Arrest, a Hemorrhage (for people who don't know) is a pool or leakage of blood inside the body.

I would continue... but things get a little more out of hand, and even more inaccurate, as you can see, the autopsy and death of Michael Jackson was in the normal range, and there was nothing 'suspicious' about it. July is coming to an end, and in August i am hoping to see this site change from a hoax site, to a memorial site, to remember a great man we all lost. R.I.P Michael Jackson

The Double Theory / Re: Has there been 2 this whole time??
« on: April 09, 2010, 01:59:25 AM »
You all know how easy it is to cover up scars with Make up? but all it takes is the right angles and lighting to make it 'reappear'

Other Odd Things / Re: Could May 24th be "the day"?: U do the math!
« on: April 09, 2010, 01:52:43 AM »
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Quote from: "larry141094"
I am going to say this with the best intentions.

May 24th is going to come and go... MJ will not return
June 25th will come and go... MJ will not return
July will come and go... MJ will not return
August 29th will come and go... MJ will not return

You may continue pondering a possible return for the next year, two years and two decades, but when is it going to sink in? i want to know if this year passes and nothing happens, what then? will you say he will 'Come back in his own time'? how long is that going to be an excuse?

Time to let him Rest In Peace, I Love You Michael Jackson <3

Oh yes, and that is because you are the insider right? Close to the Jacksons huh?

Or a reporter? Hmmmm, confusing....

Cut it out Larry, you are not an insider, you're just bad news.

We will see

Other Odd Things / Re: This Is It PROPER Dissection
« on: April 03, 2010, 06:30:24 PM »
12 people (including me) that have replied believe it's Michael, 6 people (including you and souza) believe it isn't but even you guys are torn in your beliefs.

^^^ Thats evidence enough, the people can't be wrong, the case IS closed, and it IS time to move on, if your gonna have a hoax site, NEVER use opinion as fact

Other Odd Things / Re: THIS IS IT *SHIT IT IS*
« on: April 03, 2010, 06:25:13 PM »
Anagram yes, logical NO!
It was the name of the tour, listen to what Michael says about the planet in TII, if we could please stop with the TII bashing, it was a REHEARSAL! not a friggen concert, watch the Dangerous rehearsals, he goes an entire verse and does not sing a word!

Other Odd Things / Re: This Is It PROPER Dissection
« on: April 03, 2010, 06:16:32 PM »
only thing is, he was in full dress rehearsal, and thats it, but his mannerisms were the same, gentle but to the point.

Case Closed, Michael Jackson was the only Michael Jackson in This Is It, Just watch this [youtube:3m3o4ucr][/youtube:3m3o4ucr]

Other Odd Things / Re: This Is It PROPER Dissection
« on: April 03, 2010, 06:10:02 PM »
its possible lol, i have the collectors edition with extra footage, i just want to know, in the bad rehearsal video wat was different between the MJ in that and the MJ in TII, i just want to know what you think.

Other Odd Things / Re: This Is It PROPER Dissection
« on: April 03, 2010, 05:56:45 PM »
here we go... Bad tour rehearsals, reminds me of This Is It to be honest

Other Odd Things / Re: Could May 24th be "the day"?: U do the math!
« on: April 03, 2010, 05:38:20 PM »
I am going to say this with the best intentions.

May 24th is going to come and go... MJ will not return
June 25th will come and go... MJ will not return
July will come and go... MJ will not return
August 29th will come and go... MJ will not return

You may continue pondering a possible return for the next year, two years and two decades, but when is it going to sink in? i want to know if this year passes and nothing happens, what then? will you say he will 'Come back in his own time'? how long is that going to be an excuse?

Time to let him Rest In Peace, I Love You Michael Jackson <3

Other Odd Things / Re: This Is It PROPER Dissection
« on: April 03, 2010, 05:24:18 PM »
I would just like to remind everyone about something... you all keep talking about his "mannerisms" like you knew him personally, we have NEVER seen how he creates a show before, so we have nothing to compare it too, just watch memories of Michael in the special features and tell me it isn't him

Other Odd Things / Re: This Is It PROPER Dissection
« on: April 03, 2010, 05:58:16 AM »
Quote from: "Suzy"
It are M.J.and Ernest Valentino.

Your kidding right? this guy

Other Odd Things / This Is It PROPER Dissection
« on: April 03, 2010, 05:29:41 AM »
Hey everyone, luv you mo.

The point of me being here is not to be a nuisance, but rather to help you guys in your grieving process.

Now time for a proper "This Is It" Dissection, Souza and Mo, no disrespect toward you two, but i do believe you made one or two mistakes in your review of Michael Jackson's last stand "This Is It".

For those who haven’t got it yet, you can watch it here:
your browser does not support frames
<<< Well thats a shame now isn't it? oh well, its ok i have my own High Quality version here on my computer.
First we have the dancers, what a drama and overacting. Particularly Shannon Holzapffel. We looked at eachother in the cinema and had to stop ourselves from laughing our asses off.
<<< Ok we know you think this film is ridiculous but there are two things here, firstly imagine how you would react if you got the chance to dance ON STAGE with MICHAEL JACKSON! it would make you jump up and down with excitement, i know i would, the other thing which you may or may not know is that Shannon has Bipolar, and was in fact wanting to commit suicide (just listen to his words), so we need to show a bit of compassion here, after all we want haters to show compassion to Mike don't we?

Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'

Red pants (they look orange to me)
Suit guy

S and M start by saying that the video and the sound is off... well it looks to me that Red pants is singing live, i mean how are they meant to let us hear the sound from BOTH videos hmm? Crossfade it? that would be confusing, no i am sure that they used the audio from one of them, and by the looks of things its Red pants that is singing.
S and M then go on by saying that Red pants IS NOT Michael Jackson, rather they give their first "Who the hell IS THAT" remark, and trust me, theres a lot of those, ok they say he looks flimsy... he isn't going full out you know? he's "marking" the dance, i dance so i should know, when you have another group you have no time to be perfect, so you sorta wobble the moves and get off the stage.
Still not convinced? PICTURES PICTURES, GLORIOUS PICTURES! lets have a little comparison of Suit Guy and Red Pants.

Suit guy (with added glasses)

Red pants

Now tell me they aren't the same person!

Now hold on a tic... S and M forgot to mention the Acapella of Speechless!
And it was sung LIVE by... RED PANTS

Now S and M shortly mention the auditions saying Michael had the wrong eyes, but i think if i remember the camera was only on him for a split second, so lets take a look at that.

Compare that to this one

Same person? im pretty sure

Jam ^^^ same shizz

The Drill:


Red pants/Orange pants
Suit guy
Gold Pants
Cool moof <<<?? lolwut
Chomp chomp, defa cool moof…. Oh my, here we almost pissed our pants and got banned from the cinema
<<< now i don't know about you but im sure that would be CHEWING gum right? maybe him and the kids got obsessed with it in those final years? i mean Prince WAS chewing gum at the memorial service wasn't he? No way thats a connection i'm sure.
And then there is yet another WHO THE HELL IS THAT? remark, can i offer a person? perhaps it's Michael Jackson maybe? there is no way THREE people could have the same nose, cheekbones and voice of Michael Jackson, Hey e cass was close, but EASILY recognizable from Michael Jackson.
AND THEN THE SHOCKER OF THE DAY (of course no where NEAR as shocking as the 'This is NOT It' ppl claiming Mike was 49kg at the time of death) They said that there was ONE CAMERA?! wait hangon... what? no there were 8, 3 up the front 1 on the immediate left, 2 hand helds on stage, one near the back and one diagonal to the right of the stage.

Human Nature:

Key players:

Red pants
Suit Guy
Gold pants
Penguin guy

S and M didn't give us a "WHO THE HELL IS THAT?!" on the penguin guy, but they did say his shoulders... (lolwut) were too small (despite the fact that it was the actual clothing and not his shoulders) and they said the movements were too FEMININE! Uhm... need i remind you that Michael is a feminine person, and i don't see feminine in that, i just see improvising to tell you the truth.
Now S and M don't think we should be fooled by MJ's beautiful voice... so we won't.
They came to the conclusion that Red pants and Penguin guy are NOT Michael jackson, i beg to differ, Gold pants looks identical to both Red Pants AND Penguin guy, Suit guy only looks identical if you put sunglasses on him.

Smooth Criminal:

Our keyplayers:
- Cool moof
- Red-pants
- Gold-pants
- Smooth Criminal

S and M both agree that the Culver Studio MJ is the REAL MJ <<< I agree there, but they have already screwed themselves by saying that, why? JUN-04 2009 was what the camera read the day of the Drill, same day as Cool moof, Now they were at Culver from 1st June through to 9th of June, Thriller was filmed on the last 3 days, They don't care about us was finished up on the 4th... the 4th was the day they filmed the shadow scene.
What does that mean? Cool moof= MJ

Look i have to have dinner now, i could go on all day, but basically i believe they are ALL Michael Jackson, you may believe different, but it's not rocket science

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