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661
Quote from: "curls"
Why am I not surprised to see this headline?

How's this for a theory: the lawyers are not 'in on it', and are actually having the same dilemmas we have all had in trying to find a theory that fits. Their 'evidence' will surely lead to them seeing that MJ didn't die at all. But who will dare raise that as a possibility?!

Let's get this thing to court and on TV, so the whole world can see the farce this has become.

If Murray is not a scapegoat and Michael's plan is to comeback, probably Murray's lawyer is in on hoax too. Or not? And yes, who will dare to raise the hoax as a possibility in front of the court? Not Murray's side for sure. He can't do that, he's been paid to play his role afterall. The Jacksons? Same for them. They defend Michael's hoax. So both parts are interested in playing the death scenario with or without the knowledge of the lawyers. And the lawyers don't do anything without clients' agreement. The only one who has interest in finding the truth is the judge. He is the only person that could bring the hoax in the discussion. Asking for subtle evidence that leads to confirming his suspicion (in case he believes Michael is alive). If the judge is bribed too then he will just drop it and all 3 sides, Murray's side, family's side, Judge side will just pretent they are in a trial. A real trial with 2 sides , one throws false accusations, the other defends itself of these false accusations. And a bribed judge who must close his eyes to these inconsitinces. A real trial but with a movie characters. But here is my question: why this show? For whom? The trial was not a must do. So why all pretending? Especially when there's a huge risk of being discovered.
And the family knows Michael is alive why did they start these accusations in the first place. Just to make this hoax real? It's too much.Do deaths must end with a guilty person in front of a judge and a possibile conviction just to prove they are real deaths ?

662
Michael's Reasons to hoax his death / Re: What If The Hoax Is A Hoax?
« on: April 29, 2011, 05:55:51 PM »
I have thought of every possibility, including this one. And i believe there is an original hoax and other faked ones :lol: The original is Michael's of course and the false paths of the hoax belong to others. That's why at some moments i got stucked and things didn't match. Now i don't connect everything with the ORIGINAL hoax anymore. The perspective should be clean.

663
TMZ Articles / Re: ... And They Lived Happily Ever After!
« on: April 29, 2011, 05:34:21 PM »
After being annoyed all day with the videos, news, photos, debated like martians came to Earth, TMZ was like fresh air. Kate looks like 40. There. I said it.

664
Cirque de Soleil is the perfect vehicle for the return if this hoax is for entertainment. If FBI is in or the reason of the hoax is not entertainment related i doubt we will see a second Thriller show. I see it more like a conference, because i think the reason of the hoax is highly serious.

665
Hmm, they need time. Michael needs time.

666
General Hoax Talk / Re: Will you still hold out hope for a return ??
« on: April 29, 2011, 05:09:56 PM »
I have doubts for July. BUt I suppose he has no other choice than to be back until the trial ends. So this year most certain.

667
References & Similarities / Similarities Jesus - Michael
« on: April 29, 2011, 04:55:08 PM »
I love Jesus and for me Jesus is God = Love = Truth. Jesus is perfection so i never compare a human being with him.
But Michael's message is so similar that you have to be blind not to see it. From the Bible i understand that Jesus ' second coming will not happen, but there will be a messenger. Should we dare to even think?

Here is a very interesting article i 've read and the possibily that Jesus might have faked his death too blew me away..

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In the Qur'an God provides accurate information about the crucifixion of the Prophet Jesus (pbuh), which is described in the Gospel with contradictory and doubtful explanations. In the Qur'an, God makes it clear that SCHEMES MADE TOWARDS THE PROPHET JESUS (PBUH) ARE THWARTED AND THAT THEY CERTAINLY DID NOT KILL HİM:

 

and their saying, ‘We killed the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Messenger of God.' THEY DID NOT KILL HIM AND THEY DID NOT CRUCIFY HIM but it was made to seem so to them. Those who argue about him are in doubt about it. They have no real knowledge of it, just conjecture. BUT THEY CERTAINLY DID NOT KILL HIM. (Surat An-Nisa', 157)

 

In the Qur'an, that the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) was not killed is stressed twice in the same verse and it is stated that those who advocate the belief that the Prophet Jesus (pbuh)  was killed have no real knowledge of it. This is a very clear statement.

 

Someone resembling to the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) was crucified:

 

In the same verse in the Qur'an God reveals, "They did not kill him and they did not crucify him but IT WAS MADE TO SEEM SO TO THEM." (Surat an-Nisa', 157), and informs us that the person who was crucified was another person who was resembling the Prophet Jesus (pbuh). The individual who was crucified instead of the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) was Judas Iscariot, who acted treacherously towards the Prophet Jesus (pbuh). As a great miracle, God made Judas Iscariot seem like the Prophet Jesus (pbuh). When they came to take the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) to crucify him, they took Judas Iscariot who was present there and crucified him.

 

Besides, because Judas Iscariot's face was covered with blood, people also did not understand that it was not the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) who was crucified. In the latter part of Surat an-Nisa' 157, God relates, "They have no real knowledge of it, just conjecture."

 

Indeed, in the Gospel, the words which are conveyed as the last words of the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) ["Elohi, Elohi, lama sabachthani?" which means, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken me?"], is again a continuation of the same delusion and the expression of disbelief in question belong to Judas Iscariot, whose plot was thwarted and was crucified instead of the Prophet Jesus (pbuh). Indeed, it is obvious that the Prophet Jesus (pbuh), who was a servant of God who wholeheartedly submitted to God and loved Him, could not have told these words. One can only expect to hear such rebellious expressions from a hypocrite.

 

The disappearance of Judas Iscariot according to the Gospel:

 

Parallel to what is revealed by the verses of the Qur'an and these explanations also supported by various sources, there are passages in Gospel that may provide evidence that a disciple of the Prophet Jesus (pbuh), Judas Iscariot, was crucified instead of him. According to these passages we need to notice that just after the crucifixion Judas Iscariot disappeared. Various Gospel authors try to explain away this subject in many ways and have contradicted with one other. The contradictory explanations regarding the disappearance of Iscariot in the Gospel is as follows:

 

Early in the morning, all the chief priests and the elders of the people came to the decision to put Jesus to death. They bound him, led him away and handed him over to Pilate, the governor.

 

When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty silver coins to the chief priests and the elders. "I have sinned," he said, "for I have betrayed innocent blood." "What is that to us?" they replied. "That's your responsibility." So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself. (Matthew 27: 1-5)

 

In those days Peter stood up among the believers and said, "Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled ...through the mouth of David concerning Judas, who served as guide for those who arrested Jesus—he was one of our number and shared in this ministry."

 

With the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out. (Acts 1: 5-18)

 

Despite the fact that some explanations in the Gospel contradict with one another, there is consensus on the disappearance of Judas Iscariot just after the crucifixation. Judas Iscariot disappeared, because the one who was crucified and killed was Judas Iscariot. Judas Iscariot, who normally looked like the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) in the physical sense, was made to seem more like the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) as a miracle of God. Upon this, soldiers were mistaken and took him to the crucifix instead of The Prophet Jesus (pbuh). Just before this incident, by God's command, the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) was taken to the heavens by angels, into the Sight of God.

 

In the Qur'an God informs that the plot against the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) was "thwarted":

 

In the leadership of Judas Iscariot who was a hypocrite, unbelievers plotted against the Prophet Jesus (pbuh). The purpose of this plot was to kill the Prophet Jesus (pbuh). However, in the Qur'an God INFORMS US THAT THE PLOT AGAINST THE PROPHET JESUS (PBUH) WAS THWARTED. If, in one way, The Prophet Jesus (pbuh) died, this would mean unbelievers' plot coming to a favorable end on their part, and this is impossible. THAT PLOT WAS THWARTED. THE PROPHET JESUS (PBUH), IN NO WAY, DIED AND WAS NOT MURDERED. God informs us about this fact in the Qur'an thus:

 

When Jesus sensed disbelief on their part, he said, ‘Who will be my helpers to God?' The disciples said, ‘We are God's helpers. We believe in God. Bear witness that we are Muslims. Our Lord, we have faith in what You have sent down and have followed the Messenger, so write us down among the witnesses.'THEY PLOTTED AND GOD PLOTTED. BUT GOD IS THE BEST OF PLOTTERS. (Surah Al ‘Imran, 52-54)

If the plots of unbelievers succeeded, this would surely be related in the Qur'an. On the contrary, we know from the Qur'an that the plots against the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) came to nothing and that the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) was raised to the Sight of God.

 

 

It is a great blessing for sincere believers that a stealthy plot against The Prophet Jesus (pbuh) was thwarted:

 

Despite very clear evidence, those who insist on the claim that the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) was killed should think wisely and re-read the Qur'an with an open mind and and keep their mind free of any prejudices. The Prophet Jesus (pbuh) did not die; he was honorably raised to the heavens. For a sincere Christian, there is no meaning in being insistent upon the claim that the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) was killed. For a Christian, it is a blessing to know and believe that the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) did not die, that he was saved from the plots of unbelivers and that he is in our Lord's Sight. Insistently turning one's face from such glad tidings, not wanting the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) to be alive despite all these facts revealed is a strange attitude.

 

Some Christians claim that Muslims object the belief that the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) is not alive, because they think it is unbecoming for a prophet to suffer. However Muslims believe in it simply because it is stated so in the Qur'an. The key point that deserves mention here is the following:

 

Surely God has tested Prophets with various affliction, hardships and trials. As a requisite of the trial in this world, God also granted temporary triumph to unbelievers. But God never lets His Prophets to be in a state that will, in the eyes of unbelievers, make them seem as if they were weak. Accordingly, such a state also holds true for the Prophet Jesus (pbuh). Believing that the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) did not die is also good for Christians. Indeed, in the End Times when the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) will be sent back to earth, Christians will see that he has no scar on his palms or feet. In the End Times in which we live the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) will come back to earth with the clothes, belongings he had on 2000 years ago, and the money dating back to 2000 years. When these happen, Christians will be better convinced.

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At some parts, i had the feeling that i am reading about our hoax.
What do you guys think?

668
Introduce yourself / Hi all
« on: April 29, 2011, 04:07:15 PM »
I've been reading this forum for some time and  i wanted to say hello to all members, moderators and admins.
Your posts are very interesting and you sure invested much time here, congratulations.
I am 80% Michael is alive, my gut and common sense usually helps, i save my 100% for a comeback.

Here is a short resume of my thoughts:

I still try to understand why the children's faces were shown before his "death" if this hoax was being planned for a long time - wouldn't it have been much easier for them to secretly meet their father after  if they remained unkown?

I believe the trial is real, because i have no pertinent conclusions for how a court could be set like in a movie.

I think Murray's role is a scapegoat, fallen head in case Michael never comes back. (did Joe say something like that too?). If he comes back he would do it during the trial, that seems logical. If not, Murray would go in prison and Michael wouldn't be legally able to come back.

I am no sure of the FBI involvement in this hoax, if Michael is in a witness program protection and covered by FBI then the trial makes no sense. But on the other hand:  no FBI = bribery.  This is not good also because it's not a sign of a comeback. Obvious consequences for Michael and the ones helping him (who might have been bribed to help the hoax at the beginning). I am also thinking about this trial, misleading the court knowingly for years. No country allows it i am sure. Even with FBI involved, is anyone above law? MJ? FBI? Maybe a Cali lawyer's help needed in our speculations.

"This is it" is a film for sure but is it directed by MJ or by AEG or by Kenny? Still don't know.

Reason of the hoax?
1. Death threatnings? Seems most reasonable explanation. But Michael used to hide in his life a lot without people knwoing his location. And he would have find a less painful way to escape, he was probably threatened so much during the years that i really can't take this reason too serious. Plus taking the children with him would have been part of his plan.
2. A tool for FBI to reveal the dangerous facts and people. For me it's not a good reason because i am not sure of FBI yet. And i don't see what he could possibly had to shockingly expose using such a drastic measure. And for what? As Latoya said: Family first.
3.Planning it for years (for whatever reason) and this was the perfect moment to fulfill it. Why now? Leaving his fans, leaving his obligations, is this not deceiving or fooling everybody, fans especially ? Why adding deception and so much drama? :cry:
4.Emergincy. Forced to do it at that point for ...whatever reason. Michael didn't want to leave his fans, but had to. Michael didn't want to leave his children, but had to. Michael didn't want to leave his life. But had to.
Maybe one day we will know why.

Sorry, long introduction :lol:

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