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16
« on: January 15, 2011, 11:14:32 AM »
Hi !
I went on the MTV Website (US Version) at MTV Video Music Awards 2011 section ( You are not allowed to view links.
Register or Login ) when I saw the picture of the "Moon Man":
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And this reminded me the cover of the album "Michael" where we can see the Moon Man with the MTV flag:
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The 20th annual MTV Video Music Awards will air live on Sunday, August 28, 1 Day Before Michael's Birthday.
Ok, I know we don't like BAM Dates here, but can be have a link between MJ and this show ?
Not really related to your BAM date statement, but the moon man is a part of MTV history. Michael won the award, in fact Michael made history on MTV, that is why the moon man is on the cover. The moon man is the correct figure for a MTV award.
17
« on: January 15, 2011, 07:19:09 AM »
We have been told that Michael was naked, we were told he had black pajama bottoms on. So where the hell was the drivers license? Do you know anyone who keeps their drivers lic. in their pajama pocket? And no one there, in an extreme emergency, would stop to look for Michael's drivers lic.. Get real people  ?
Try filling in some of the blanks instead of just thinking they are going to put every single detail down on paper. Whether it is lie or not, some things are just expected to be common sense. Consider a report from a nurse helping a patient to go the bathroom. The report would probably say "assisted patient to (insert word here)" but would not say "took down pants, "took down underwear".. doesn't that sound like too many details? In fact, if they were giving a lot more details I would be more inclined to think they would be overdoing it.
Remember I am not contradicting you at all, just a trick when investigating is to fill in the blanks to see if it is plausible. Try to start with the DL in the coroner's hand and work backward in your mind.
I was taken to the hospital twice in my life for heart attacks, and not once did anyone ask for my drivers license. They were to busy trying to save my life. I still think the drivers lic. theory is BS, of course we again will never know. I'm just using my common sense.
Our local hospitals,e each one of them, without exception asks for DL every time you go. They do that to confirm identity for insurance purposes. They even have a computer swipe where it picks up information off the strip in your DL. If you have it with you, no writing at all!
18
« on: January 14, 2011, 05:17:41 PM »
Question:
How can you identify someone who looks old, ill and very pale --- like a "hospice patient" (that's what the paramedics said during the hearing) at the same time identifying this person (UCLA) by his driver's license which is from the 80's?? :shock:
Can someone pls explain?
I think we should first question why a DL from the 80's is being used for comparison purposes to begin with. Where I live DL's are updated every 4 years---as people's looks and weight tend to change . I suspect that CA is no different in that regard.
How do we know that it was from the 80's?
19
« on: January 14, 2011, 05:16:54 PM »
20
« on: January 14, 2011, 04:50:11 PM »
To reading_on.
It 's true: also a clever man can make mistakes. However, because of everything I've seen and with the faith I have in Michael, I think he is alive. Sure, I could be wrong, that's just my opinion.
Did you read what I wrote on the topic "Milkman" in "All odd things"? I'd like to have your opinion about it.
Ciao (= bye) Hello image Everyone wants Michael to be alive. You are in a good crowd :-) I am not sure what you are looking for as the comment. I don't usually even look at any videos from youtube that people try to string together for the hoax. I like making up my own mind about things. People can do anything on their computers. I watched this one because you asked me to comment. Personally it looks like too things. 1) Someone being distastefully silly 2) Someone promoting Readerware. On a final note. Everyone I have come in contact with in a hospital setting called this "milk". I don't find it unusual for a patient to call it that. Be aware that I am not saying that Michael did this. I believe nothing 100% until I could prove it. I don't believe believe the picture in that thread and has anything to do with anything.
21
« on: January 13, 2011, 09:14:48 PM »
Why would Michael need to cancel rehearsals? They were finished rehearsing. I don't think they were done rehearsing. They were just done at the Staples Center. They still had props to work in. They surely would have rehearsed a couple of days at the 02.
22
« on: January 13, 2011, 09:13:29 PM »
Even my mother, who worked in the Red Cross (almost like a nurse), when she heard this story, said it does not make sense to give propofol for sleeping, there are many healthy ways to combat insomnia. I believe that Michael, who is a healthy and clever man, in any case would never have taken the propofol.
But I do not think that anyone died in his place that day.
Blessings Well, I am not going to say that. He may have let someone give him that drug. He was a terrible insomniac and not a doctor, so who knows. For surgeries he has had in the past he would have most definitely had some sort of anesthesia and he may have been fascinated by the effect. Also, some crooked doctor may have told him that it was a good idea. But, don't get me wrong. I have nothing but hearsay to that effect, I am just speculating that even smart human beings do things they think are okay. One thing is for sure, I would not believe for one minute what the defense in the Conrad Murray case is selling. If Michael died, there is no way I could sell myself on the idea of him swallowing propofol or injecting himself with it. He is way smarter than that, because most ANYBODY is smarter that that.
23
« on: January 12, 2011, 07:03:48 AM »
Thanks for giving personal experience with propofol aftereffects.
Well from the very basic script of MJ using an IV of propofol which apparantly doesn't even provide restful sleep and MJ had a fear of needles, something that includes requiring a urine pad and a penis catheter, and now this mention of throwing up after you wake up. Why not just get hit with a hammer every night, and wake up rested. Do you hear mans-laughter in all this? Also from what I've read the catheter insertion is extremely painful, and with longer use associated with a high risk for infection, skin breakdown, bladder stones and cancer. You are not allowed to view links.
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Yes, propofol use to gain sleep is extreme overkill (no pun intended). Robin Williams likened it to using chemotherapy to achieve a close haircut...
I have personally witnessed it's use in OR and it was used secondarily, to maintain GA, not as the primary anaesthetic. It was given in increments ("push" or "bolus"), based on instructions from the anaesthetist, who was obviously basing his decisions on vital sign monitoring. I never saw it hung in an IV bag. An artificial airway was always in place.
Also, from what I have read, the catheter was a condom one, which does not involve insertion. This reduces risk of infection/complications but can cause excoriation if in place for long periods of time. Not sure why a catheter would be needed anyway if the amount of propofol given was intended to only last for 10 minutes...
Just more food for thought...
I have seen it IV drip for medically induced coma, but artificial airway was the FIRST consideration. I find it highly negligent that propofol was administered without the airway. Whether a patient dies or not, you are certainly setting him up to.
And that explains the “IV bag containing a milky white substance”, though assuming it was propofol because of its colour may be a mistake. Was toxicology given for exactly what the IV bag contained? If it WAS propofol then it was used to induce a coma and this would explain the presence of the catheter.
And this leads to the EMT statement; the patient “looked like a hospice patient” and wasn’t recognised as Michael Jackson. And THIS leads to the theory that the patient WAS a terminally ill hospice patient and it wasn’t MJ at all. MJ didn’t need a catheter or an IV bag if he was only given a push of 25mg. Unless putting MJ into a coma was a regular procedure but just wasn’t done on this particular occasion. A ridiculous notion as I’m sure if this were the case there would be household witnesses to verify.
All this evidence totally contradicts Murray’s claim stating he gave MJ 25mg of propofol- only enough to put him out for 10 minutes max. The 150mg found in the bloodstream could be explained by the IV drip but this doesn’t fit with eyewitness accounts of a healthy entertainer who performed strongly the night before and was further required to keep up the effort. I agree with reading_on as well in that 10.30 in the morning was extremely late in the day to be implementing such a debilitating treatment.
The description and toxicology findings fit a palliative patient not expecting to leave their bed too often if ever again...
If you are asleep for 10 mins with propofol you do not need a catheter. I spoke to my friend doctor and he told me that a catheter is put to a patient who cannot get up , eg: a patient who got operated, they put catheter for a while. A patient who is terminally ill who cannot get up anymore . For 10 ,mins he did not need it. He finds this so strange that no one in court is looking at this into depth. They have so many medical people being asked question in court not even one came close to finding out more information. He told me they are making a mokery of medicine and a mokery of the law. Sorry but these are his words. First off he also told me, did they examine the catheter? DNA testing, you know you can find out a DNA with urine, who did it belong to? I think this would have been the first thing to do. if they would test it at this moment, the results wouldn't be conclusive. He said this catheter and propofol was not MIchael's, He also stated that maybe there was also morphine in the IV to numb the pain of the terminally ill person. Which they probably never found out or they keeping it a secret. Blessings
These are all good points and I myself was not looking deep enough. The catheter is in place for people on the drip, that are going to be asleep for extended periods. I would not call a few hours extended enough. But do we have any reports about the catheter being in when they reached the house? I thought this was after the fact, and if that is true they may have inserted one at the hospital to try and drain urine for testing.
24
« on: January 11, 2011, 05:10:58 PM »
He didn't fool anyone. He had to be safe from his murderers who saw in Michael only MONEY. Stop thinking everything is about you in his life. Family first. Fans after. Deal with it. I don't know who thought the way you are saying. I mean, some people might have thought that they deserved more attention, but I am certainly not one of them. I didn't even get to see him in concert, which I kick myself now for it. I should have. I have always been a good and loyal fan of his music and showmanship, but I have always known he is just a man that and his family is whole other world and of course, most certainly it comes first.
25
« on: January 11, 2011, 09:36:02 AM »
Thanks for giving personal experience with propofol aftereffects.
Well from the very basic script of MJ using an IV of propofol which apparantly doesn't even provide restful sleep and MJ had a fear of needles, something that includes requiring a urine pad and a penis catheter, and now this mention of throwing up after you wake up. Why not just get hit with a hammer every night, and wake up rested. Do you hear mans-laughter in all this? Also from what I've read the catheter insertion is extremely painful, and with longer use associated with a high risk for infection, skin breakdown, bladder stones and cancer. You are not allowed to view links.
Register or Login
Yes, propofol use to gain sleep is extreme overkill (no pun intended). Robin Williams likened it to using chemotherapy to achieve a close haircut...
I have personally witnessed it's use in OR and it was used secondarily, to maintain GA, not as the primary anaesthetic. It was given in increments ("push" or "bolus"), based on instructions from the anaesthetist, who was obviously basing his decisions on vital sign monitoring. I never saw it hung in an IV bag. An artificial airway was always in place.
Also, from what I have read, the catheter was a condom one, which does not involve insertion. This reduces risk of infection/complications but can cause excoriation if in place for long periods of time. Not sure why a catheter would be needed anyway if the amount of propofol given was intended to only last for 10 minutes...
Just more food for thought...
I have seen it IV drip for medically induced coma, but artificial airway was the FIRST consideration. I find it highly negligent that propofol was administered without the airway. Whether a patient dies or not, you are certainly setting him up to.
26
« on: January 10, 2011, 06:51:25 AM »
My daughters took the vaccine nothing happened to them. A friend of ours died from complications of the swine flu. It is the complications that get you.
You have to make a choice, but getting a vaccination is always a choice that you need to look at carefully. All vaccinations have the risk of something. But you have to ask yourself if you are going to be around an environment that ups your chances of the flu and if you are willing to take the chance of contracting the flu and taking your chances with that.
27
« on: January 10, 2011, 06:28:42 AM »
I remember Kai Chase saying that it was Murray who would come down to get Michael's breakfast, which was usually some juice she had prapared for him, and on June 25th that did not happen. Murray didn't come to get the breakfast, and he didn't come down with the oxygen tanks either. The first time she saw him that day was when he came yelling for Prince and security.
However, you are right in saying that it doesn't make much sense to want to go to sleep still at the time Murray supposedly administered Propofol. Michael usually had lunch with his children, and then Travis Payne would come over to discuss the routine for rehearsal and then they would leave together to go to rehearsals. It seems to me that if you are still awake close to lunch time you would just give up, since a couple hours of sleep sometimes has a worse effect than staying awake, especially since Propfol doesn't give you what is considered rejuvenating sleep. It can make you feel more groggy. He could have just canceled rehearsal for that day. You are right, I didn't go back and fact check. It was Murray who came down, not Michael. Thanks for clearing that up. I hate when something that isn't correct keeps going..lol
28
« on: January 10, 2011, 06:22:33 AM »
bec.. I am not 100% sure but I think the media are protected in case a picture turns up being faked. I mean, I don't think consumers can sue mass media for something they purchased in good faith.
I have always said that I could prove the photo was faked and this far in the photo does not matter.
29
« on: January 09, 2011, 07:18:49 AM »
This statement from Kai Chase vs Conrad Murray's administration of medicines.
Kai said that MJ would come down for breakfast, but Dr Murray said he was administering propofol after 10 AM. Why would MJ want to sleep that late? This is speculation on my part, but consider any insomniac that I have been in contact with (my husband is one). They do not want to go to sleep that late in the day, they just give up and try the following night.
The facts in this matter state that if Michael came downstairs for breakfast consistently in the morning AND he was a consistent insomniac like it was reported then he would have in times past ignored no sleep in favor continuing his daily routine.
30
« on: January 09, 2011, 06:55:53 AM »
No, I'm sorry SD, the pic does not show proper, by-the-book CPR technique. Only one set of fingers is visible. If the hands were placed on top of each other, two sets of fingers would be visible the right set under the left, or as per proper procedure, the fingers should be interlaced. and the heel of the top hand pressing onto the top of the other.
Even if one were to try and argue that this is one individual's personal, confident professional technique, the angle of the EMTs left hand is so positioned, that in order to have it placed on top of his right with any kind of downward leverage gained at all, he would have to dislocate his shoulders or hyper extend his elbows to stack his hands in such a way as to have the fingers face opposite directions so that the bottom set does not show in the pic. Try it yourself and you will see what I mean.
The most likely explanation for the EMT to be in this position is that at the time the pic was taken, he has stopped compressions and is reaching for something with his right hand up high and to the rear of the cabin. I don't know what is positioned there that he might be reaching for or maybe he's just no longer acting since the ambulance is pulling away from the scene and there's no further need to put on any facade, maybe he's purposefully holding a one armed pose so that the guy in the side window can get a wacky shot that is consistent with reports of Murray's one armed CPR.
Because you have to admit, it's hella ironic to have the EMT in the ambulance pic appear to be doing the same one armed CPR that Murray was ridiculed for doing in the news, and is being accused of being negligent for doing so by the witnesses and indirectly by the prosecution in the prelim hearing this past week. I agree with you on the EMT reaching somewhere else at the time. In fact I actually read that somewhere. I gotta say this all seems pretty gruesome and ghoulish picking this picture apart again and now the accusations get even worse than when it was first being picked apart. If you do it for the sake of getting to the bottom of something, I will say again I wish there was a locked area for members with a blatant warning for people who come. In case, of course, he was dead you wouldn't want his kids seeing it, would you? I wouldn't. Sorry, don't mean to offend anyone with those statements, just looking at it like an outsider. With my big bold statement there, I would still like you to "sell" me on the idea that the body has an arm missing. All I see is something in the way of the arm being photographed. Can you point out more than that? Thanks
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