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Messages - Raven
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1
« on: April 14, 2010, 05:16:57 AM »
I'm not saying this to hurt people's feelings, but I think it needs to be said. Some are delusional, not being able to recognise a person: everyone is Michael in disguise or an actor and Michael is a double. This is dissociation, not being able anymore to tell the difference between reality and fantasy, which are psychiatric symptoms of paranoid or schizophrenic nature ("seeing things"). It is no use trying to debunk such delusional perceptions, as these people really believe they see these things: to them, it's real.
THAT was way out of line Raven. I have no problems with people stating their opinion and adding their personal opinion, but accusing your fellow forum members of suffering from mental diseases because their opinions and believes differ from yours is too much to accept and move on like nothing happened.
Reality hits hard, and a lot of fans prefer to dismiss reality to not get disillusioned, they prefer holding on to what they were told and to keep their dream alive. That's human nature, it's protecting yourself from feeling hurt and deceived, and I totally understand that. So what YOU say is not out of line? Fans that say Michael is Michael are disillusioned? I think you're acknowledging that some are delusional, however the delusion is seeing doubles in EVERY of Michael's appearances and Michael in disguise in EVERY person: NOT that Michael is Michael.
2
« on: April 14, 2010, 04:06:46 AM »
Mykidsmum,
I totally agree with you, so I will not repeat what you just wrote.
Like you, I have also considered leaving the forum as it hardly provides me with new insights or data. Most of the time it boils down to trying to debunk other people's ideas instead.
Some might believe they are doing a "clinical investigation", but from my point of view it's more like kindergarden. In particular the green man discussion, or the "identical doubles" discussion come across as extremely silly and immature and at the same time disrespectful towards Michael.
It's a fact Michael used doubles, but not identical doubles. Like some mentioned, he would use a double for stunts or as a general decoy for paparazzi, but not for performances or for instance official photoshoots. It's a matter of being able to relativate things. It is surgically or with the use of prosthetic make up simply not possible to create an identical double to the microscopic level. If it were, Michael would have had the perfect nose again without having been ridiculed by the tabloids and the rest of world.
The main reason most people recognize the person as Michael is because it IS Michael. This has nothing to do with feelings, as some in here are advocating.
I'm not saying this to hurt people's feelings, but I think it needs to be said. Some are delusional, not being able to recognise a person: everyone is Michael in disguise or an actor and Michael is a double. This is dissociation, not being able anymore to tell the difference between reality and fantasy, which are psychiatric symptoms of paranoid or schizophrenic nature ("seeing things"). It is no use trying to debunk such delusional perceptions, as these people really believe they see these things: to them, it's real.
It discredits the whole hoax discussion, which is probably also the main reason why the possibility of a hoax is hardly being discussed in the media.
3
« on: April 13, 2010, 05:02:32 PM »
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4
« on: April 13, 2010, 05:25:51 AM »
I agree, as I've mentioned before it appears as if on one picture his eyes are closed and on the other they appear to be slightly opened.
As it seems from your animation: one closed, one slightly opened focussing straight ahead, one slightly opened looking to the left
5
« on: April 12, 2010, 06:24:38 PM »
@Souza I think it's all a double with a prosthetic mask on.
You are seriously starting to annoy me Raven, I ask a serious question here. You can either answer in a normal way, or stay away from the double threads.
This is not a double thread.
Why is it annoying...as I'm doing the same you did.
When I said it was Michael himself you also replied it was a double with a mask on, and I also noted along the lines it started to become annoying. What's the difference?
The difference is that I compare pics and you just say "It's Michael Jackson". O2 dude can't be compared, we have no eyes. If try to compare O2 dude's mouth is already too wide. A good comparison is impossible with the glasses on.
I am done with people like you just 'stating their opinion', ridiculing others without any arguments. I had the discussion with mykidsmum as well, but she at least posts her own comparisons. You are only stirring the threads up. If you don't think there were doubles and you will not contribute to the thread proving us wrong, just stay away from these threads.
'Nuff said...
Ow I've given enough arguments, it's not true what you say. I've mentioned the scar near his lower lip. I've mentioned scars on his chin. I've mentioned the scar on his cheek. I've reposted a picture of yours that you used for comparison in black and white you couldn't get to match because it was in mirror-image. But you've all done away with them as 'that can be artificially added' or 'it's a prosthetic mask'.
Yes, because it's POSSIBLE nowadays, but you just ignored that and went on with sarcastic remarks. That's the last thing I will say about it, since this discussion is not the issue here. I am awaiting your comparisons...
I don't need to proof anything here. If you claim someone is not Michael, the burden of evidence is yours. I've also explained in the very beginning that IMO it's disrespectful towards Michael publically examining his face to the microscopic level the way you are doing, he would have HATED it, so that is another reason I won't do any comparisons. I've mentioned that plastic surgery is good nowadays (as is prosthetic make-up), but NOT to the detailed extent some people in here suggest. Other contributions you've ignored: I've explained that if the jaw moves with the lips closed the chin appears longer. I've explained that if the head is tilted forward the length of the chin visually appears shorter and the forehead appears longer on photo due to the 3D effect. So that whole remark of yours "I am done with people like you just 'stating their opinion', ridiculing others without any arguments." is just totally untrue.
6
« on: April 12, 2010, 05:06:57 PM »
@Souza I think it's all a double with a prosthetic mask on.
You are seriously starting to annoy me Raven, I ask a serious question here. You can either answer in a normal way, or stay away from the double threads.
This is not a double thread.
Why is it annoying...as I'm doing the same you did.
When I said it was Michael himself you also replied it was a double with a mask on, and I also noted along the lines it started to become annoying. What's the difference?
The difference is that I compare pics and you just say "It's Michael Jackson". O2 dude can't be compared, we have no eyes. If try to compare O2 dude's mouth is already too wide. A good comparison is impossible with the glasses on.
I am done with people like you just 'stating their opinion', ridiculing others without any arguments. I had the discussion with mykidsmum as well, but she at least posts her own comparisons. You are only stirring the threads up. If you don't think there were doubles and you will not contribute to the thread proving us wrong, just stay away from these threads.
'Nuff said...
Ow I've given enough arguments, it's not true what you say. I've mentioned the scar near his lower lip. I've mentioned scars on his chin. I've mentioned the scar on his cheek. I've reposted a picture of yours that you used for comparison in black and white you couldn't get to match because it was in mirror-image. But you've all done away with them as 'that can be artificially added' or 'it's a prosthetic mask'.
7
« on: April 12, 2010, 04:37:28 PM »
@Souza I think it's all a double with a prosthetic mask on.
You are seriously starting to annoy me Raven, I ask a serious question here. You can either answer in a normal way, or stay away from the double threads.
This is not a doubles thread. Why is it annoying...as I'm doing the same you did. When I said it was Michael himself you also replied it was a double with a mask on, and I also noted along the lines it started to become annoying. What's the difference?
8
« on: April 12, 2010, 04:28:47 PM »
@Souza I think it's all a double with a prosthetic mask on.
9
« on: April 12, 2010, 04:25:48 PM »
AllJack5ons have not tweeted for over 8 days...radio silence since April 5th 2010 (latest Murray courtday)
10
« on: April 12, 2010, 04:18:25 PM »
I'd rather have a lifeline then a deadline
11
« on: April 12, 2010, 04:09:37 PM »
And so it appears celebrities have a lot more privacy then believed...most isn't true what is written about their private lives
12
« on: April 12, 2010, 03:51:00 PM »
Anyone interested in my Twitter? 
13
« on: April 12, 2010, 10:54:42 AM »
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14
« on: April 12, 2010, 04:04:02 AM »
Michael was extremely thin, to the point of looking sickly. He especially did not appear to have the weight required to do 50 concerts.
It amazes me that some keep saying he was not too thin. One might wonder how thin he needed to be for them to call him too thin.
To prevent videos from being lost, such as the one where he supposedly said he did not want to do the 50 shows, it would be a good idea to download such videos and store them on your harddrive. Videos from Youtube can be easily downloaded with this website by copying and pasting the youtube url in it:
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Where is that video of him saying that he didnt want to do 50 show? You have it?
No, I do not have this video but there has been much talk of it suddenly disappearing from the internet at some point. So as soon as anyone sees such an important video, download it because it can be removed again at any time.
15
« on: April 12, 2010, 03:39:09 AM »
Michael was extremely thin, to the point of looking sickly. He especially did not appear to have the weight required to do 50 concerts. It amazes me that some keep saying he was not too thin. One might wonder how thin he needed to be for them to call him too thin. To prevent videos from being lost, such as the one where he supposedly said he did not want to do the 50 shows, it would be a good idea to download such videos and store them on your harddrive. Videos from Youtube can be easily downloaded with this website by copying and pasting the youtube url in it: You are not allowed to view links.
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