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Other Odd Things / Re: MJ's hoax death now on Wikipedia
« on: January 13, 2010, 08:22:11 PM »
Quote from: "hope"
:o  Hey, this is great. I hope alot of people read it. I'm glad it says "many people", instead of "a crazed few".  :lol:

haha, you're right, so kind of them to refer to us as "people"  :lol:

I imagine, if we are right, there will be a pretty extensive Wiki article on MJ story one day!

Other Odd Things / Re: WHY ARE YOU DECIDING FOR US???
« on: January 13, 2010, 08:16:32 PM »
"We stand today at a crossroads:
One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness.
The other leads to total extinction.
Let us hope we have the wisdom to make the right choice." (W.A.)

Quote from: "Lorrie"
I'll be around commenting and reading until the owners figure out how to REALLY ban me permanently. I'm a tech-savvy gal, so it might take 'em awhile yet.

Best 2 lines i've read today :D

Other Odd Things / Re: TMZ, Photo i have not seen before
« on: January 12, 2010, 06:57:49 PM »
I wonder if Sony can request to remove stuff from YT only, cause on TMZ site the audio is still available...

Introduce yourself / Re: Paramedic
« on: January 12, 2010, 04:34:31 PM »
Thank you, LadyMedic! I'm very curious of your professional opinion!
Is the intubating mask positioned correctly on the ambulance pic? It seems too low and not covering the area (mouth&nose)?
According to paramedics MJ was "gone before they they arrived", we also heard from the doc MJ wasn't breathing or responding to CPR which continued for over 40 min. if that's true and MJ was in such condition for about an hour before paramedics arrived, would they be working on him for 40 min  and then another hour in UCLA? That makes a total of about 3 hours of working on a dead man...
Why aren't thre IV stands when the strether is moved down to the hospital?
I know it's more appropriate question for the forensics, but still: is it normal to use white sheets vs blue/black bag for the body that has just been performed extensive CPR measures on?
Does Murray's deposition about dosage and timing ring true to you?

Other Odd Things / Re: What they don't want you to know
« on: January 11, 2010, 05:21:20 AM »
Quote from: "ILuvUMoreMJ"
I think that's the only reason he decided to tour, since we all know how much he hated it, and I also believe the debts are the main reason for the hoax.  Unlike a lot of people seem to believe, being in debt doesn't make him a bad businessman nor does it mean he was broke, but since it seems common knowledge that he really was $400-500 million in debt, it was getting serious enough that he had to basically sell Neverland and auction off his belongings.  Anyway here are a couple of articles that might help explain some things...

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Btw, the $20 million he may owe to creditors is on top of the millions he owes in loans, it's not the same thing.  I should also mention, as Zen did, that although I am behind that article, it was written 2 years ago...a lot happened since then.

To tell the honest truth, i do believe money was the underlying reason for this hoax. It's the simpliest, most rational and most plausible theory of them all for me, and it survived while all the other theories eventually died out and lost their credibility. And in no way that would discredit MJ. I'm 100% behind this article and those similar to it, because I'm convinced it exposes the facts that general media has been reluctant to deal with: that MJ is VERY influential in the music business, that he's indeed in control of his own affairs and is viewed as a strong player in the industry (and not wacko). However, I came to conclusion the debts most certainly existed (however i'm not sure about the scope), otherwise he would have never placed the Catalogue as a collateral against the loans, never! Whatever brought MJ to that point (i personally think it was conspiracy and a lot of bad advise), death hoax seems the ONLY way to get out of it: no 50 concerts would have done what his 'death' did! Many people would say he'd never do this for the money, i disagree, he would if he really needed to (which seems the case): he's a businessman to the bone, yes -- he's first of all an Artist - and i believe only such creative mind could have pulled off a hoax for the practical purpose! Be it a happy concidence or careful plan, it has already brought material and non-material profit: incredible record sales (biggest selling artist of 2009 says it all), successful launch of other projects (movies, books, clothing line etc), public vindication of MJ's image (it has already started and will only get better), his children are secured for the rest of their lives and can actually have a more normal life with Michael not obviously around them. I also firmly believe some family members are using this hoax for their own benefit too, as they often did in the past with MJ. I'd rather think they're using his hoax, than his death to profit tho! There's actually a lot to be said in favour of this theory IMO. I'd say it's the smartest business move of the century! Things that lie on the surface are not always superficial.

Thank you for the interesting links!

Other Odd Things / Re: What they don't want you to know
« on: January 10, 2010, 10:53:16 PM »
Quote from: "mykidsmum"
I've said it before and I will say it again...there is something here, more than we could ever imagine.  If MJ died (which I am really starting to believe) it was something fishy going on.  Does anyone know what happens to MJ's 50 percent in the catalog if he dies?  Does his share go to Sony?  Please, no speculation, only if you know for sure...If anyone has any info on Sony and MJ let me know...I find this aspect so fascinating and I know there is something there...MJ told Reverend Jesse Jackson that there was a conspiracy going on and he was under a gag order not to talk because it was in litigation... Later we hear from Ortega that he was afraid to eat and drink for fear of being poisoned.  He told that music artist (forgot his name) that if something happens to him to look at these peoples names...Something stinks.  it's all about putting peices together.  Any little thing we can find and we can start connecting the dots.

You might find this thread intresting then

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It looks like there's no concrete info on the Catalogue in the net at the moment, it's just one big question covered in mystery! So if you find out what's really going on with it, please share!

Michael's features, habits & disguises / Re: MEGA FUNNY PICS FROM MJHD
« on: January 10, 2010, 10:45:43 PM »
OMG, this thread kept me from falling asleep while reading J5 Q&A marathon! Thank you all!

After some thinking i decided to post these vids here (afterall this is the place for funny/crazy stuff!). They are a bit silly, but i guess when you get frustrated or sad it helps! Had some really good laughts over those, so hope you like!

MJ "crazy files"


Can't embed these, but they're good!

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Other Odd Things / Re: What they don't want you to know
« on: January 10, 2010, 08:48:57 PM »
Quote from: "Zen"
I always hoped Michael WOULD be able to write an autobiography of his life..always thought
we would know the true story.

ABSOLUTELY! That would be my BIG Q to Michael if I had a chance. After reading "Moonwalk" I couldn't help wondering why the second book never came out (or yet?=) I'm convinced his late autobiography would be beyond intersting, with all the experience and knowledge he got in these years, all the amazing people he met, all the lessons he learned  -- priceless!

Dr. Conrad Murray / Re: Hey someone posted this to my forum
« on: January 10, 2010, 08:10:25 PM »
Have any of you heard of the Ocaam's Razor theory?  I think we need to apply this theory in MJ's "death"

Read this link and focus on the explaination of crop circles....its the best example of what Occams AZOR is. I have posted this theory before...a few moths ago.....if you do not understand the theory,,please ask cus it is important that you understand it. Here is a link..[/color]
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What a brilliant post! I just loved it! Thanks!

I've felt it must be much simplier than some 10-story theories we're sometimes building here, and the scientific approach rocks!

Actually, once thinking from this pespective... i'm stuck by how simple it may actually be!

Other Odd Things / Re: What they don't want you to know
« on: January 10, 2010, 07:37:51 PM »
Quote from: "juliet"
TINKERBELL, thanks for the interesting post.  It's really worth reading.

You're very welcome :)

Other Odd Things / What they don't want you to know
« on: January 10, 2010, 07:08:27 PM »
It's odd... I was just about to comment on a post when it suddenly disappeared. Anyway, it quotes an interesting article (thanks to the OP!), which I also read a while ago and found very well articulated! I think it's worth reposting:

"What They Don’t Want You to Know About Michael Jackson

What do you think of when you hear the name, Michael Jackson? Michael? Criminal? Great Entertainer? Businessman? Whatever you think of MJ, throw all your thoughts out of the window and let’s examine some facts.

For years the media has labeled him “Michael Jackson.” What happened to MJ? Wasn’t he the biggest thing in music at one point? When did he go crazy?

All anyone has to do is look when Michael started being portrayed as “Crazy.” It wasn’t during the “Thriller” years. It’s cool being a song and dance man. That’s what they want. DON’T DARE BECOME A THINKING BUSINESSMAN. DON’T DARE BUY THE BEATLES CATALOG. DON’T DARE MARRY ELVIS’ DAUGHTER. DON’T DARE BEAT THE RECORD INDUSTRY AT THEIR OWN GAME. Michael started being labeled crazy when he began making business moves that no one had been successful at doing.

Michael took two cultural icons and shattered them to pieces. All our lives, we’ve been bombarded with 2 facts. The Beatles were the greatest group of all time and Elvis was the King of Rock and Roll. Michael bought the Beatles and married the King’s daughter. (if that ain’t literally sticking it to the man) If I wasn’t a cynic, I’d say Michael did the Lisa Marie thing just to stick it to the people who consider Elvis the King.

The Beatles were great, but they weren’t great enough to maintain publishing rights over their own songs.

Elvis was great, but he didn’t write his songs. His manager, Col Tom Parker, was the mastermind behind Elvis … keeping him drugged with fresh subscription pills and doing all the paperwork.

Michael could do no wrong as an entertainer. “Off the Wall,” first solo artist with 4 top ten singles. “Thriller,” the biggest selling album of all time, with a then record 7 top ten singles. “Bad,” the first album to spawn 5 number one songs (even Thriller only had 2 number one songs). All this is cool. But that is all you better do. SING AND DANCE. Michael wanted to be greater. He bought the legendary Sly and the Family Stone catalog and no one really cared. When he bought the Beatles, people noticed. The Sony merger took the cake. Sony, in their eagerness to have a part of the Beatles catalog, agreed to a 50/50 merger with Jackson, thus forming Sony/ATV music publishing. Now, Michael co-owns half of the entire publishing of all of Sony artists. Check out the complete lists of songs at A sampling of the songs he owns the publishing rights to are over 900 country songs by artists such as Tammy Wynette, Kenny Rogers, Alabama. All Babyface written songs. Latin songs by Selena and Enrique Iglesias. Roberta Flack songs, Mariah Carey songs, Destiny’s Child’s songs. 2pac, Biggie and Fleetwood Mac songs. In essence over 100,000 songs. “What is this man doing?” None of the greats did this. Not Bono, Springsteen, Sinatra. “Who does he think he is? Get whatever you can on him.”

To “get” someone, you have to attack what they love the most. I’ll say no more on that.

The only man who even approaches MJ in taking on the industry is Prince and to a lesser extent, George Michael. They went after poor George Michael, publicly outing the man as a homosexual. Prince fought hard and made his point, but nevertheless still had to resort to using a major company to distribute his materials. There is nothing wrong with that. Prince would get the lion’s share, but the result were years of being labeled crazy and difficult.
The greatest moment for them was the Sneddon press conference. “We got him.” Never was such glee so evident. Who cares if we have evidence?

Michael was acquitted, did not celebrate, went home and left the USA. Best move ever. Now what is there left for the haters to do? He’s gone. “Gone, what do you mean he moved to Bahrain? Well, how the hell can we get him if he’s not here? Quick, get that columnist to write a series of articles on how MJ’s teetering on the brink of destruction. Oh we did that? Well, what can we do?”

On the outer surface, it appears Michael is not doing anything to make money. Don’t even count the weekly sales of his CDs. 15,000 CDs a week is nothing for Michael. The Sony/ATV catalog is money for Michael Jackson every time he breathes. Serious money. The fact that no one reports on the actual amount is proof of that. They would rather you believe he is broke than tell you the truth. Neverland is still owned by MJ. The family home in Encino is still owned by MJ. Michael still owns the Beatles songs through the merger with Sony as well as full ownership of his own songs. But, hey, that’s our little secret.
Michael Jackson is literally walking in the shoes that no Black person has ever walked in before. If he ever writes an autobiography, it will be one of the most interesting ever. A Black man with no real formal education becomes the most powerful man in the industry, DESPITE hatred, racism, enemies in his own camps and a media willing to be bought to the highest bidder.

If Sony had any sense, right now they should offer to continue the partnership. That’s the only way they will make future money off of Michael’s catalogue.
Tommy Mattola did not lose his job with Sony because he was a bad label head. It was a casualty of war. MJ exposed him and Sony had to cut their losses. Companies do it all the time. Notice no one at Sony nor did Matolla himself ever sue MJ for slander. Michael always was loyal to his bosses at Epic/Sony. Back at the 1984 Grammys, he even brought then label head Walter Yetnikoff on stage with him at one point. He’s always thanked Dave Glew, Mattola and others at Sony in his acceptance speeches.

Sony can still do right by Michael, but it may be too late. However, they still should make a goodwill gesture, but how many times do businesses do that? If I were them, I’d still want MJ as an ally, not as an enemy. It is/was a mutally profitable merger.
I’d be scared as hell if I was an enemy of MJ while he is with the multi-billionaires overseas. Believe me, they aren’t just over there discussing designer clothing. A conglomerate is in the making.

One last note, these facts that I write here should not be the only times you hear this, but the sad fact is it probably is. I was worried that Michael would go down because of the uncertainty of the jury. That’s playing unfair. If I’m presenting these facts here at EURweb, YOU CAN BELIEVE THE MEDIA KNOWS IT ALREADY AS WELL. They aren’t salivating over everything MJ related just because he made “Thriller.” They know what’s up. Think about it. That’s why I laugh when I see shows like BET’s “The Ultimate Hustler.” We all know who that is. (How can Damon Dash know who the ultimate hustler is anyway? He lost Roc-a-fella to Jay-Z)

In the end, Michael won’t be known for being an alleged child molester. He won’t be known for “Thriller.” He will be known as the man that fought the record industry and won and lived to tell the tale."

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Originally by Christopher Hamilton, 2008

I found that part on Sony particularly interesting! The last bit of it is so picturesque!  :D

No, but on the serious side, it's something to think about with all that buzz around the unreleased tracks, AEG/Sony deal for TII and radio silence on the Sony/ATV catalogue.

Other Odd Things / Re: Wicked Witch MJ painting question?
« on: January 10, 2010, 09:46:11 AM »
Those songs are beautiful and lightfull, seriously why to hear them backwards at all?  :D The message is just there, in plain English!

Other Odd Things / Re: Wicked Witch MJ painting question?
« on: January 10, 2010, 09:25:40 AM »
I see :)

While personaly I think the idea that MJ's lyrics are stuffed with satanist messages (as some theories propose) is very crazy BS, i think he could well have been interested in those things for the sake of knowledge and education (some things of this nature are truly fascinating to study). Creative minds find food for creativity in almost everything, very often - the strangest things possible, no need to look deep for 'hidden motives' IMO :)

Other Odd Things / Re: Wicked Witch MJ painting question?
« on: January 10, 2010, 09:03:11 AM »
Quote from: "ForstAMoon"

There have been many references to Crowley in MJ's music/art/life, so presumably this should not be a surprise to see his interest in this one.

Just out of curiousity: what would make you say that there have been many references to satanist Alister Crowley in MJ's art?  :shock:

UCLA / Re: The silence of the hospital staff, Visitors,Patients!!!!!!!
« on: January 09, 2010, 09:38:40 PM »
Well here it is... a user on another forum (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login) - all credit goes to HoaxWatcher from - has found something definetly worth looking at. Though not an eye-witness report, this comes from LAFD captain's wife and she talks about her husband's text messages after he and his team been working on MJ... The site seems totally legit, here's the direct link:
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I know this can be squeezed into hoax somehow (as almost everything due to variety of theories), yet i hate to admit this one gave me a strange feeling. Here's why: this woman is talking to her friends/relatives on this blog (hell it even looks like a cozy kitchen), she doesn't want to mention MJ's name not to attract attention to her site (so to keep it a private), Jeff Mills is indeed an LAFD captain and most certainly been there on call. So I see only few possibilitis here:
- he told his wife this story to close the scene (knowing she has a blog and ppl would be questioning after a while); i don't think it was intentional and public-oriented, most certainly - just for this particular community
- the unpronounceable

And, in case it's the 1st option, i find it interesting he texted MJ was "gone before they got there", I actually find it interesting he texted at all, just 2 minutes after MJ was pronounced dead at UCLA.
"They went to UCLA medical center with him and had to stay quite a long time" - that's probable - "He finally called me around 7 PM and still couldn’t say much" - that's a long time actually, but i suppose there could be other reasons. "He was warned that the paparazzi can intercept cellphone calls. Back at his fire station, he was fielding phone calls from TMZ and other celebrity websites looking for information." - This sounds just fine, however it always seemed TMZ were on top of everything almost as if they had an inside source, would they need to call the fire dep for info? well maybe. "Of course he was saying, “No comment.” - yet it's fine to let your wife share this info with neighbours? Oh... IRDK

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