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Messages - Chicana

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1
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not speaking to you chichana, i am speaking to the mods. i dont have power to lock, i'm not a mod.

mods do what you got to do. i don't care if it does get locked. no debate should have been started with me, whatsoever.

2
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am sad as i can forsee this thread being locked and i am really keen to hear a reply from IWantYouBack.

lock it then. as i've stated before, if you don't want a reply.. don't say anything to me.

3
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Chicana there´s one thing that I do not understand about your attitude:

We´re on "Michael Jackson Death Hoax INVESTIGATORS" here....so why would you be on the forum if you don´t care about investigating/research?

To gullibly accept the opinion/idea that Michael wasn´t in control of his finances and his life means to do wrong by him and to totally underestimate his intelligence, sense of reality and business acumen (in my opinion at least...but I believe that there are quite a few members on here who think the same).  :icon_rolleyes:

Forgive me for being so passionate about that but I am really, really fed up with all the biased assumptions, bashing and character assassination that has been happening throughout his life.

character assassination? take that up with the people who made those videos and the people that were in them. his associates/ people that he's worked with.

I feel that Michael deserves an unbiased and diversified approach. <- again, talk to the people who made the videos..

As for the subject of this thread: this is million/billion dollar business. I highly doubt that any of us can truly comprehend what is going on behind the scenes.
>of course not. nobody, NOT ANYONE ON HERE has any idea about what went on with his money. only michael and God knows. we all have a right to be entitle to our own opinion about things, i had an opinion about michael's "debt"<<problem being part of him planning for the death hoax and someone took it and just made a long drawn out thing saying "i disagree" this and that..and they're not thinking that i'm going to respond to any of it. why keep putting me down? am i really suppose to bite my tongue?  :icon_rolleyes:

did i say that i don't care about researching/investigating? i said i don't have the time to do it because i'm busy with other things. i have a job, a husband, a home, a life to deal with. you think that i have time to sit on here wasting to dedicate all of my time to researching mj? the most i've ever did on research of mj is when i had a term paper when i was still studying in college about his behavior, why he was the way that he was, and what i think he would be diagnosed with.

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like i've said already, we've already cracked the code of him being alive. going back and forth about  what i've seen on youtube is ridiculous. since the code HAS been cracked, it's time for people to leave it alone and stop with this "i don't think it was this" and " i don't think it was that" "i disagree", what's the point in arguing/debating with me when this stuff has already been publish for everyone to see on the interviews, news reports, ect. wait for the bam. the bam will come. if you all have been watching espirits videos and all of the other hoax related videos, they clearly say/point out that he's alive. all of this second guessing is just making it harder to focus on the fact that there will be something happening in the future. and people may even go back and say "he's not coming back..so on and so forth"..maybe not..but all we need to do is wait. making debates? c'mon...you watch youtube also, i just happen to watch it more than others because i'm a time saver. while on youtube i'm taking care of other things that i need to do. so if your quote is trying to idk contradict me in anyway, you can do better than that.
 
i'm not researching anymore.I came on here to share and/or discuss what I've observed mainly on youtube. my search is over. the supposed bam day is not far from now.

5
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i think that we've already cracked the code of mj being alive, i think all we've got to do now is wait until bam's day.

and?

6
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:WTF: "arrogance"  :icon_rolleyes: so, my observations and assumptions are being viewed as being arrogant? lol. every time i say i'm thinking or i believe, it's "i disagree..".. i dislike the word (so and so), and everything just totally bashing what i'm saying. nothing that i've said you've "agreed" with. ever since i've been on this board..you've put what i said before down as far as 2pac, dave dave or whomever i was talking about.. as far as what's been going on over the years with you, that's you. i just started on this  hoax thing almost 2 months ago maybe 3 (not on this website, but as far as being more interested in the hoax and watching videos). who knows, maybe over time i might have different views, but seriously, right now, i'm not because i have no time for researching.i've said this from the start. i don't have alot of time to be on here researching. if everything that i say is being viewed as being arrogant, i should make the same observation and say that your views are being arrogant as well.  i'm not here to cause problems, i'm only here to talk about mj and what i've observed..and alot of people on here are doing the same..i don't see where you're telling them you disagree and this and that. when it comes to me, it's the same old same old.  :icon_arrow: :argue: :argue: :argue: :argue:

Chicana, you really need to change your attitude here. You have no time to research and only watch YouTubes? Then get off your high horse and respect people who HAVE been researching. I already crinched when I saw your introduction post, and I think that if you just want to wait for a bam instead of researching and interacting with members who do, you keep a lower profile. I have serious issues with your behaviour on here.

"Chicana, you really need to change your attitude on here.. why?" Why do I need to change my attitude on here when this is how I am. You cringed at my introduction, why? just because I said that I'm opinionated? Because I said I'm really busy and don't really have time to research?I'm not going to lie, i am. and people who don't accept that should get use to my ways, or ignore me (is that so hard?). if none you don't like what i have to say, ignore it. wow. as far as getting off of my high horses, honey, i'm not on one. i only gave my opinion about why mj was in *clears throat* debt, and the reason why he possibly faked his death. i'm not saying something is even wrong with the people who have been "researching", but to just keep going back and forth about my opinions about what has been said on youtube videos that other people have made, is ridiculous. i never asked anyone to debate with me about anything. i can't say anything freely without someone saying "i disagree" so on and so forth..seriously..a wait for a bam? i'm not just waiting on a bam.. i was wanting answers as well, and most of my answers have come in the form of youtube. people have different sources that they use, they use television, radio, newspapers, ect, why is it so wrong that i'm using my source as Youtube when this is all i have time to do when i have free time available? my profile is perfectly fine, but people seem to like to debate with me on here just because i said that i'm opinionated. let alone, you don't know how i am in real life. if you think that i'm "arrogant" or whatever on a forum, image how much worse it is outside of the internet. when people want to "debate" with me, that's what they'll get. you don't want a response back? don't say anything to me at all. >>

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 :WTF: "arrogance"  :icon_rolleyes: so, my observations and assumptions are being viewed as being arrogant? lol. every time i say i'm thinking or i believe, it's "i disagree..".. i dislike the word (so and so), and everything just totally bashing what i'm saying. nothing that i've said you've "agreed" with. ever since i've been on this board..you've put what i said before down as far as 2pac, dave dave or whomever i was talking about.. as far as what's been going on over the years with you, that's you. i just started on this  hoax thing almost 2 months ago maybe 3 (not on this website, but as far as being more interested in the hoax and watching videos). who knows, maybe over time i might have different views, but seriously, right now, i'm not because i have no time for researching.i've said this from the start. i don't have alot of time to be on here researching. if everything that i say is being viewed as being arrogant, i should make the same observation and say that your views are being arrogant as well.  i'm not here to cause problems, i'm only here to talk about mj and what i've observed..and alot of people on here are doing the same..i don't see where you're telling them you disagree and this and that. when it comes to me, it's the same old same old.  :icon_arrow: :argue: :argue: :argue: :argue:

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idc if you don't think it's wise to say it, if watching videos and that's all i have time to do and not sit here on the computer all day researching things on mj on news articles and such, then yes, it's perfectly fine to say this as i'm not really ever going to have time to sit here and read things when i have more important things to do. i make time to type on the forum, i make time to watch videos, and i make time to do my work and provide for my husband. we have lives. it's safe. if i have an "open-mind" and agree with everything that you all say and keep my thoughts to myself about what i've seen...it's like i'm being passive when i've sat here with my husband discussing what we've seen on these videos.

what was said on those videos DID make sense to me. i'm not biting my tongue or holding back my thoughts about  it either.

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nobody knows what type of money problems michael had. he might have been in a bigger debt problem than we all think. were we working with him? did we control his bank account? did we know michael personally? bullsh*t? by far is this bullsh*t, it's only based from an opinion from observation from youtube. you can't bash someone for an thought that was originated from the making of a bunch of videos. it's not bull, when someone has an opinion about it. it is SAFE to say, that thoughts can be generated from those videos, some may go against, and others may agree because most of the things on the videos make perfect sense. that's why i believe what i believe, and basically, nobody can change what i'm feeling because we have different thoughts about what happened. there are no right and wrongs in this hoax. we're getting closer to the truth and in due time, it will all come out.

10
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as my post isn't being comprehended and is being misinterpreted I'm going to quit while ahead as its going in circles. emotion can prevent objectivity and it wasn't intended to be a negative experience. i'm done  :icon_rr:

fine by me...though i've read and "comprehended" what you've said... and posted more of what i've been thinking since the views of those videos...if you want to end the "debate"..cool. :icon_rr:  :) :smiley-vault-misc-150:

11
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I personally do believe in the debt story. I think being in debt was one of the reasons why Michael planned this hoax. I am a HUGE fan of him and I really look up to him, he is and will always be my inspiration, but I'm not going to fool myself or be biased and say that he was in fantastic shape for the past decade. I honestly don't think he was. Health wise, I think Michael was and still is great, as we can see in This Is It. However, money wise, I think Michael was in a lot of debt and in trouble. We all saw the way Michael spent his money in the horrible "Living With Michael Jackson" documentary with Bashir. BUT, I don't blame the debt on Michael. Michael's financial managers and lawyers should have been looking after him and his money. It's not Michael's fault he got in debt because he has people to tell him whether or not he's in good enough shape to purchase expensive items like the ones in the documentary. And even though Michael likes to hire the best of the best, I don't think the people in Michael's inner circle were there to help him and make sure he's okay. The people around him were money hungry and couldn't have cared less about the state Michael was in financially - as long as they got their salary they were happy. I honestly wish with all of my heart this wasn't the case because Michael cared and still cares about everyone with all of his heart and soul. But what I really wish is that the people in his inner circle were more caring and loving like he is.

I think once the Estate pays the rest of the $25 million, that will open the doors for the big BAM - if there even is a BAM.

 :th_bravo:

12
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Iwantyouback - i do agree on the point that some in the inner circle were up to no good. MJ has spoken many a time about misplaced trust and greed. there were definitely ppl doing underhanded things and there have been for years.

i just dont think MJ was the weak helpless victim all the time. MJ is a control freak. he knows what he is doing and some of his antics are planned. again, only JMHO. i have no proof either way.

having said that, even the most amazing people can make foolish financial decisions. MJ is not immune to that, i know.

Oh, I TOTALLY agree with you here! Don't get me wrong, I don't look at Michael and think that he is a helpless victim all of the time. You're totally right - Michael was a control freak and he called the shots almost all of the time. But I think when it comes to his debt, I think he was a victim in that specific case.

@Bec I do understand what you mean when you say that debt = wealth. But I think that's only in some cases. I was always taught that debt was a bad thing, and if you can't pay it off, you're kind of in trouble. Michael always said that no matter what he didn't want to be performing "Billie Jean" when he was 50 and that he just wanted to have a happy, worry-free life with his children. Why all of a sudden the change of heart? I personally believe that he wanted to do This Is It to pay off his debt, but then his life was threatened and had to do this hoax that was on the back-burner for a while. This is just my opinion though. Not saying you're wrong, and I'm not saying I'm right.

 :th_bravo:

13
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sorry chicana, i disagree. completely.

a) i dont think he was in the debt that everyone thought he was in.

b) i disagee that 'people controlled his life' as he is incredibly powerful and calls the shots. Michael Jackson knows how to be Michael Jackson!

c) regarding this:

Quote
and as far as the "drug addiction" comment, i'm talking about what i've seen on different videos. people have said that he had a drug addiction problem, how he's used different aliases to get drugs.


i personally don't put a lot of weight to what is written about MJ and concerning hypertheical drug use. and if and i say IF it were true, then its really NONE of our business.

you're not disagreeing with me,  :icon_arrow: i think you're disagreeing with the people who made these videos. because i'm not the one that posted these videos up.


aware that you didnt 'make' the videos. there are 100's of videos on YT that claim "the truth" when it comes to MJ, even some that are made by believers that are probably incorrect. video makers dont know entire truth. only MJ does.


Quote
he said is strictly based on everything that i've watched. and sure, maybe he wasn't in debt (just maybe), because we don't know what was going on for sure. michael planned his "death" for a reason, you don't just plan a death for no reason at all. there has to be something behind it.

money isnt the reason for the hoax.


Quote
there's a video on youtube with a woman who was saying that he was afraid for his life. it was because of some guy that he thinks that was in the italian mafia, mr. tounche or whatever that guy's name is. the tapings might be old, but they seem like they could be a part of the hoax, which is why the audios have been used on those hoax videos.

refer to tabloid junkie...

Quote
so..why if he was so powerful..why would he say that he was feeling afraid for his life and his children?

possible. it is possible he was afraid for his children. any celebrity of that stature would want to protect their children and ensure their security. but also just remember too, that not everything that comes out of MJs mouth is true. He plays the game too.

also, regarding powerful, have you ever seen some of the people MJ is friends with or has been associated with??

Quote
why think of wanting to get a different bank account?

if i had copious amounts of cash i'd be opening up swiss accounts too. many people with loads of $$ do it. also he may have been preparing and organising his fincances pre-death hoax. so that money is accessible after "death"

also as mentioned in the other conversations that are happening on this thread right now, some of his money handlers were dodgy. MJ had to clean it up and get control.


Quote
and i'm not the one posting that he was a drug user on videos. others have posted videos of other people that have worked with michael, or have associated with him/ whatever have said that he had a drug addiction problem. so i wouldn't put it past me.

chicana, a lot of people on the net claim to know michael, hell some even claim to BE michael. there are a lot of false claims of truth out there. example, there are videos out there that claim 'proof' that MJ was a pedo! (disgusting i know!  :icon_twisted: :icon_twisted: :icon_twisted:)

Quote
doesn't matter if it's none of our business, this are things that people have added into their videos. so i really don't know why you're pointing the finger at me, when i'm just going by what i've observed and heard. they're posting this stuff. if you have a disagreement with anyone, it should be them. i just look at these things and think MAYBE it's true, i never once said that it was true.


i PROMISE you that i am not pointing the finger at you, i am encouraging you to be open to the idea that people who make the videos might not know completely what they are talking about. i dont have a disagreement with the people who make the videos as they have a right to their freedom of speech and i dont have a disagrement with you personally. i just believe there is more to the debt thing, i believe he is and was in control, and i dont believe he was a drug addict at time of 'death'

michael was always concerned about his health and body and treated it like a temple, especially as one gets older this becomes extremely important. he has had pain killer addictions in the past, but MJ wasnt the drug addict we read about in the tabs! remember this is a man who wants to live forever.

Quote
maybe you're thinking oh.. well you should research for yourself, but i personally, don't have the time. i watch videos when i have time and i don't have much time to research. i'm working nowadays and most of my time is focused on doing just that now. so if i'm posting something up on here it's usually about something that i've seen on youtube.

i understand what you mean about time being a precious commodity, i too am incredibly busy these days. so not reasearching is one thing, and i get it. but believing or accepting information based on what is on YT because its quick and easy is a one way ticket to being fed lies about MJ or anyone else for that matter. YT is an incredibly unreliable source. unfortunately for truth research is key and so is openmindedness.


again not attacking you, dont have issue with you, not disprespecting you or anything like that, its simply how i feel about the statements and opinions in your post which i am responding to with my opinion.

lets get this clear straight up, so there is no negitive emotion inferred to this. this back and forth isnt a fight, argument, or anything negative. its a positive exchange of opinions a mere conversation.

i respect your right to opinion, i just happen to disagree with it.

peace

 :smiley-vault-misc-150:

it seems as if every time i post something, you're saying "i disagree with this or that".. each time. the people that i have seen on those videos were his friends/associates/people that he dealt with. yes i've seen them. do i remember all of their names? no. money wasn't a reason for the hoax? why do you think the hoax came about? there's a reason. what do you believe he faked his death for? just to manipulate the media? i don't think it's just that. something else had to bring about the reason for faking his death. everything in tabloids aren't true either. he probably had a secret drug addiction problem. that guy with the last name ortega was saying that he didn't know that michael had a drug addiction problem, but he said that, he did. now. i'm under the impression (sometimes) that michael probably got a double to stand in for him sometimes in shows and his double (probably was taking drugs), which (probably) was his plan, to fake his death and make it seem as if he was on drugs and make it seem like that was the cause for his death. for what reason would he have fear for his children and his own life if there wasn't some reason as to why he'd want to move away to another place, so that he can be away from people, ect. why?

"chicana, a lot of people on the net claim to know michael, hell some even claim to BE michael. there are a lot of false claims of truth out there. example, there are videos out there that claim 'proof' that MJ was a pedo!" i never said that the people from the internet say that they know michael, i was saying the people that were working with him: example: ortega (was in a video claiming that mj was on drugs,may have been that other guy, they look alike to me (i don't remember who's who..) all i know is people were saying these things on those videos that he had a drug addiction problem. ortega or whatever the guy's name is said he was unaware of it, but he had a problem with drugs.

i understand that you think of it as a "healthy debate", but the debate shouldn't be with me. it's just what i'm thinking due to my observations on youtube and what people have said on their videos. i can't even rule out that everything on youtube is false either. (ex. the videos on the hoax forum in the media section- i've watched most of these videos before i joined this forum). the only thing that we all agree on, on this board is that we think or perhaps even know that mj faked his death.

14
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sorry chicana, i disagree. completely.

a) i dont think he was in the debt that everyone thought he was in.

b) i disagee that 'people controlled his life' as he is incredibly powerful and calls the shots. Michael Jackson knows how to be Michael Jackson!

c) regarding this:

Quote
and as far as the "drug addiction" comment, i'm talking about what i've seen on different videos. people have said that he had a drug addiction problem, how he's used different aliases to get drugs.


i personally don't put a lot of weight to what is written about MJ and concerning hypertheical drug use. and if and i say IF it were true, then its really NONE of our business.

you're not disagreeing with me,  :icon_arrow: i think you're disagreeing with the people who made these videos. because i'm not the one that posted these videos up. what i've said is strictly based on everything that i've watched. and sure, maybe he wasn't in debt (just maybe), because we don't know what was going on for sure. michael planned his "death" for a reason, you don't just plan a death for no reason at all. there has to be something behind it. there's a video on youtube with a woman who was saying that he was afraid for his life. it was because of some guy that he thinks that was in the italian mafia, mr. tounche or whatever that guy's name is. the tapings might be old, but they seem like they could be a part of the hoax, which is why the audios have been used on those hoax videos. so..why if he was so powerful..why would he say that he was feeling afraid for his life and his children?why think of wanting to get a different bank account? and i'm not the one posting that he was a drug user on videos. others have posted videos of other people that have worked with michael, or have associated with him/ whatever have said that he had a drug addiction problem. so i wouldn't put it past me. doesn't matter if it's none of our business, this are things that people have added into their videos. so i really don't know why you're pointing the finger at me, when i'm just going by what i've observed and heard. they're posting this stuff. if you have a disagreement with anyone, it should be them. i just look at these things and think MAYBE it's true, i never once said that it was true.

maybe you're thinking oh.. well you should research for yourself, but i personally, don't have the time. i watch videos when i have time and i don't have much time to research. i'm working nowadays and most of my time is focused on doing just that now. so if i'm posting something up on here it's usually about something that i've seen on youtube.

15
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for some strange reason, i think that he planned to fake his death to help pay for those debts that he  had to boost his record sells because he knew that if he did that, people would buy his music.and he's planning to make a comeback to show that he's alive and well, and that he wants to continue his career and probably start making movies as well. so the dates of the comeback are probably part of the plan that he's going to come back when he believes that all of his debts have been paid off and that he gets better with his "drug addiction problem".

 :icon_e_confused:


i dont think there will ever be a 'come back' and hate that phase because he never really faded away in order for him to need to make a come back. MJ was as strong as ever when he 'died' - this is not a come back, this is a take over.

yes financial benefits have definitely increased the estates wealth, but do not think this is the reason behind death hoax. simply a welcomed and well planned by product of a 'legend dying'. the reason 'why' is more deeper that this and is less about money and more about humanity and justice. 

if MJ needed money, he would have toured with TII all around the world and made a huge packet. Look at London. 50 sold out shows.

regarding the movies... if you look closely at several movies mentioned throughout this forum, you might find MJ is already working in movies. perhaps not physically directing, but certainly influencing them with his creativity. too many coincidences and too MJ-ish for him not to already be involved on that scene...

re: the drug addict comment. perhaps i am reading your post wrong. so not going to comment before I understand what you mean properly. are you suggesting he needed this time away to recover from drug issues?

.. :icon_arrow: i said comeback because jermaine said that he is the comeback king. and as far as the "financial" thing, i think that it's a part of it. i've looked at videos concerning his debt situation and how deeply  in debt he was and how people were "trying to, or "were controlling his life". and the movies thing, yes, i know people have said that he's doing movies behind the scenes in different movies such as Megamind and Frankenweenie, and things in the movies seem really "michael-like" or whatever. what i'm saying, is instead of being behind the scenes, when he makes himself "not dead" anymore, he'll be able to freely direct films with his name as the movie director on the movies.
and as far as the "drug addiction" comment, i'm talking about what i've seen on different videos. people have said that he had a drug addiction problem, how he's used different aliases to get drugs.

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