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Hi everyone, good debate, but didn't Derek Clontz recently publish a book in which he admits responsibility for the launch of a possible Hoax within minutes of Michael dying, which would take the emphasis away from Sony introducing it as a death hoax.

Personally I think Sony were seeing the $ signs on the back of the This is it tour following pre ticket sales and knew that his subsequent death was going to make even more money without introducing a death hoax. 

TMZ Articles / Re: WADE ROBSON Michael Jackson Had A Child Sex Alarm
« on: July 02, 2013, 03:21:10 AM »
WADE, WADE, WADE Darling, didn't you know that the alarm you are talking about had already been discussed at the 2005 trial.

Michael Jackson was a superstar and therefore his private quarters were security alarmed, nothing more, nothing less.   :Pulling_hair:
You really need to try a bit harder for your blood money dear.

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SUNDAY, 30 JUNE 2013 by Charles Thomson

The Mirror, the People, and the settlement that never was...
It's a funny thing. Ever since the high-profile Michael Jackson death trial started going pear-shaped for promoter AEG Live, a lot of newspapers which carry prominent and lucrative advertising for its events have become more intent on smearing Michael Jackson than ever.


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It's a shocking testament .. Michael_Jackson-- who amassed hundreds of millions of dollars during his storied career -- needed the "This Is It" tour so he could afford a house for his children.

During the wrongful death trial Wednesday afternoon ... AEG honcho Randy Phillips told the jury about an emotional meeting he had with MJ around Halloween, 2008.  Phillips said a tearful Jackson told him his 3 kids were living "like vagabonds" -- shuttling from a Las Vegas rental to the Bel Air Hotel in L.A.

Phillips said Jackson wanted a home the family could call their own, and needed the "This Is It" tour to make enough money to realize that dream.

Phillips said the meeting was so emotional, both he and Jackson cried.

But get this ... the next day Phillips met MJ again, and the singer revealed the home he wanted to buy --- a 40,000-square-foot estate with a $93 million price tag.  Phillips told MJ he thought it was ridiculous to blow his wad on the property.

MJ eventually settled on renting the house where he died.

If this is true then it explains Dr. Murrays recollection in his documentary when he recounted Randy Phillips coming to the house and having a rant about Michael ending up on skid row and left with nothing if he didn't go through with the concerts. It was because Michael had already planted the seed of being so broke and homeless when they met each other 2008.

What I don't understand is why he didn't just sell Neverland and buy a new home? Or like many have said use some of the millions from the catalogue income.  If this was October 2008, when did foreclosure on Neverland get threatened?

Other Odd Things / New Toyota unveiled by Michael Jackson!
« on: June 13, 2013, 06:28:10 AM »
Just picked this up from a fan site I subscribe to.


Source: Auto Revolution

The Euro-spec 2014 Toyota Corolla has been unveiled earlier in Turkey, where it will also be manufactured.

It seems that Toyota wanted to enhance the longevity of the Corolla model by associating it with famous Hollywood and music industy stars. So you could see impersonators that looked almost identical to Michael Jackson, Marilyn Monroe and Madonna.

Fans probably got goosebumps when the new Corolla rolled onto the scene and Michael Jackson stepped out of the car, as seen in the video bellow.

The EU-spec Toyota Corolla will differ a bit from the US version, mostly at the front end, where it will get a smaller lower air intake, a bolder grille and different fog lights.

 :LolLolLolLol: Still in the forefront of advertisers minds nearly 4 years after he left us! Interesting that they chose MJ to stay inside the car and then suddenly appear....  A sort of BAM "here I am moment"!  :michael-jackson:

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If Paris really did attempt suicide & MJ really were dead then this would be really f*cked up........her father's killer sending her a message would be totally sick in my opinion.

Just what I thought!

Although I can see many undertones of what Michael would say, that is only a small proportion of the transcript and knowing how Murray has acted before, we know his ego is as big as his vocabulary for prattling on. I often think about the alternative speech of his innocence that came out after he was convicted, showing his alternative side, which was totally self absorbing, couple that with moments of the documentary he did, the trance moment with god was so embarrassing, it showed that he really thinks he's something special.

As the author of the article states he makes quotes to at least 3 different artists, my guess is that he is trying to be clever and quoting from Michael he feels puts a more personal tone to the letter.  It comes across as shallow and after the singing and everything else he has been up to lately I wonder if he's going for the' insanity' opt out clause! (I've always believed he took the fall for Michael to disappear).

As for Paris comforting him, didn't she scream at him "why didn't you save my daddy" and didn't he then disappear for days after that, I'm sure if she did have contact with him it would have been through the family, as she was only 11 at the time and shielded from contact with the outside world... Yeah Murray, can really see that happening after you were listed as the prime suspect.

If Michael was still alive there would be no comforting from Paris to Murray post 25 June and that troubles me.

If he did take the fall and cover for Michael or really murdered him, he's totally lost the plot to my thinking!



No one here said they consider themselves more enlightened or superior. And as for Judgement, the individuals who were being judged were actually the ones denying the Paris story, not the other way around. Lol, the amount of hate mail I've had this week is ridiculous, thanks to someone copying and pasting my comments from here onto twitter.

No one blamed others for not seeing what they see. In fact the only people who were blamed, again were the ones who didn't believe it. Blamed for being callous, uncaring, like tabloids, etc or my personal favourite blamed for sending out a message and promoting that teen suicide is entertainment.

Emotional pain, is subjective as you say. In this scenario it worked both ways. I got hurt too. The attacking was very personal, in my case. But eh, water off a ducks back! I'm used to bein unpopular because of what i say lol :icon_e_wink:

Anyways the reason for telling you this is to show, that it 'hurt' the other way around too. I get your position.

I don't regret any of my comments. Sad that you were offended and it made you want I leave. And I'm glad you're not!


This is terrible and sorry you have been hurt by someone's betrayal, hope it won't stop you from debating with true heart and gusto!
I know we had a few exchanges and everyone's emotions were running high, but the whole episode has made a great debate and has certainly shaken the place up in recent days with some great points being aired on both sides!

It may have been one of the only hospitals with a place to take her, or it may be a hospital placement that the Estate have arranged.
The availability of placements may differ in the US, as I believe you pay for your treatment, unlike the UK's NHS System where you get what you are given or face a long waiting list, so I'm unfamiliar with the protocol. 

The main point is that Paris gets the appropriate treatment she needs to help her, regardless of what Hospital it's in.

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On the other hand...(non- hoax version), it is quite possible that part of her therapy requires her to face her demons and return to the place of her fathers death....usually it's part of the healing process.  (Its just another possible scenario).   

UCLA Psychology Clinic is said to be one of the best.......
Information about the various services provided by the UCLA Psychology Clinic: low-fee therapy and assessment/testing services for adults, children, couples, and families.

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Just giving an objective point of view......Its always good to see things without hoax eyes for a moment.
This is how the non-beLIEvers would see this situation........

I totally agree, there is no reason why she should not be treated at UCLA and it may well serve as part of her recovery.

She may have been taken in by wheelchair due to weakness, dizziness or a number of other causes linked to her attempted suicide or treatment. She has also been contained for 72hrs or more and is most probably feeling frightened and bewildered.

TMZ Articles / Re: Paris Jackson possible suicide attempt
« on: June 07, 2013, 10:48:01 AM »
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How does someone attempting suicide ruin their reputation??

This really has to be answered?
Think about it, this is no ordinary child, she has a reputation, she wanted to be an actress, she now has a label.......oh come on please,
use your intelligence and knowledge of what happened to Michael. Time and time again his reputation was tarnished.
There is still a massive stigma linked to mental health whoever you are or wherever you are in the world.

TMZ Articles / Re: Paris Jackson possible suicide attempt
« on: June 07, 2013, 10:27:23 AM »
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MJLoyalFan - Thank you for at least being respectful in your opinion and understanding that others are allowed to have theirs. Kudos!

I get and respect the points you make, even though I don't agree. The one point of yours I'd like to highlight is:

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Reputable news sources reported the news and followed up with statements (NOT INC TMZ)
A statement from her own Mother (who she has now bonded with and is spending time with)
A statement from the Jacksons themselves
A statement from the Estate
A statement from the 911 department (who declined to name the person they transported to Hospital)

My problem, that ALL of the "reputable" sources you point to above, also reported that MJ Died. As we know he is not, it demonstrates that the sources are not always "reputable" after all - Jmo.

NO ONE HERE KNOWS IF MICHAEL IS ALIVE, NOT ME, NOT YOU, NOR ANYONE ELSE WHO IS A 'HOAXER'. It could be a complete fabrication of the truth and in fact Michael really died that day. I don't say that lightly, its just that there's not one piece of absolute clear and solid evidence that would stand up in a court of law to say that he didn't die. Lets be honest with ourselves here. Which makes your argument that my research is not reputable seem full of hear say.  Sorry to be picky, not personal at.

The point of the list of my research coupled with the points I made regarding the strength of the topic (attempted suicide), was to show that it was very unlikely to be a fabricated story and that this would go against everything we know about Michael's moral stance and that this was not based on my emotions but research, as you quite rightly say is paramount.

Just my opinion of course, but I also wonder what research etc. was done to come to the conclusion that this was a lie, other than BECAUSE IT'S PART OF THE HOAX AND WE WILL KNOW IN TIME. Because these are not reasons. As I have said before, this would be the worse scenario to play in the hoax, destroying your Daughters future by labelling her like this.

With love.

TMZ Articles / Re: Paris Jackson possible suicide attempt
« on: June 07, 2013, 06:51:28 AM »
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Whichever you believe this story to be true or part of the hoax, the basis for your decision should be critical thinking, logic, looking into facts or historical similarities, not just emotion and how the story makes us 'feel' personally - weather that be sadness, fear, grief, etc.

This is something we can both agree on!

I hope the logic and facts of this sad episode for Paris are seen as the truth soon, because please believe me when I say that I have really tried to understand where members who don't believe this story are coming from and I have read all posts many times. I understand why they may have come to their conclusions, but LOGIC and CRITICAL THINKING are not being executed as far as I can see.

I firmly do not believe that Michael would publicise a lie that could change his Daughters future and label her, (like the labels he had to carry through life), as part of a gain for himself.

I firmly believe this is overstepping any boundary of the hoax (for whatever reason there is one) and is against the strong moral stance he has on life and his love of all children. 
I have also based my belief that this has happened to Paris on the factual research that has been available and I have made a short and by no means conclusive list of these.

Reputable news sources reported the news and followed up with statements (NOT INC TMZ)
A statement from her own Mother (who she has now bonded with and is spending time with)
A statement from the Jacksons themselves
A statement from the Estate
A statement from the 911 department (who declined to name the person they transported to Hospital)

Secondary research:
The Conrad Murray Phone Call to Paris
Prince cancelling his trip (important for his own career) at the weekend to be with Paris
100's of social media members (including big names in the industry) that have commented and left good wishes for Paris
Top Psychiatrists appearing on News channels reasoning with WHY this has happened
My own documentation/reviewing of the past 18 months of change in Paris and her life and considering her age/statistics of teenage suicide. 

Now based on these FACTS coupled with the thought that Michael did everything he could to shield his children from being used as tools to get to him, coupled with his moral and spiritual stance on life, I came to the conclusion that this was in no way part of the hoax.  It is just too serious of an issue to mess with and to be part of whatever people here want to label the hoax.

SUICIDE IS TOO SERIOUS OF A MATTER TO MESS WITH, reputations are on the line, Paris is a role model to many teenage girls, and no matter if you like it or not news stories influence minds, we wouldn't all be here 'HOAXING' otherwise.

This has been a divided and open discussion which has brought to the front some serious discussion points and feelings FROM EVERYONE and yes, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, right or wrong.  What saddens me is that it seems some have lost all faith in TRUTH itself and are so closed down to believing a truth when it hits the headlines. This is not the first time I've seen it happen here and it really saddens me because it's when love is needed to be sent back to the world the most and we ourselves grow spiritually.

One of Michael's biggest messages was to give LOVE back to the ones that are suffering in the world, especially the children and why he donated so much time and money to helping those who were suffering..... SO WHY ON EARTH WOULD HE MAKE UP A SUICIDE STORY ABOUT HIS OWN DAUGHTER and RUIN HER REPUTATION?

With Love. 

TMZ Articles / Re: Paris Jackson possible suicide attempt
« on: June 06, 2013, 05:21:07 AM »
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There are so many aspects of this situation that I'm finding incredibly disturbing, on so many levels. I can't begin to put them into words.

Teenage suicide is not entertainment.

I am with you on this.
I am reading so many possible explanations about this from hoaxers...from entertainment to awareness-raising through to red herring.
For me all of this would be morally questionable.
Attempted suicide is too dangerous and too serious to be used as a hoax "feature".
Just think about the consequences...for kids that see Paris as a role model, for herself in her social life etc....wrong on so many levels.

Thank you both for these words of reason.

I caught this story here last night in the UK and I am going to be very honest, I was totally shocked at how some people wrote that this story was fake and part of the hoax and continued to do so in the light of factual statements from Family, the Trust and other reputable news sources, unlike those of TMZ.  In fact it shook me to the core so much so that I couldn't sleep.


I apologise for what I am about to say, but for those of you here that think it's part of the hoax... SHAME ON YOU, YOU HAVE SHOWN YOUR TRUE COLOURS.

This is serious stuff and a subject not to be taken lightly and for me, certainly no surprise that this has come to light. I wouldn't trade places with Paris for all the money in the world right now, so have some compassion people, life happens and it is very rare that Jackson news, tweets, appearances etc. are part of the HOAX.  If you think they are you are more than obsessed and need to take a break.

There, I have said it.... Please, Please give this young lady the passion and good wishes she so rightly deserves and take a step back and think about what you are typing.  If this was written about your loved ones how would it make you feel?

That's all I have to say and I'm standing down from my soap box now. Sorry, but I could not keep quiet on this one.

Never forget your compassion for one another, something Michael has never forgotten, even after everything he's been through.

With LOVE.


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I see that no news reported about this trial here in germany...not in tv news, or the print news papers. I have to say i don't read yellow press and don't watch RTL and the other trash.
But a trial about 40 billion against AEG....isn't worth to report ?
Is there a trial at that court house ? Is anyone from us in LA and can go there ? I have my doubt''s all hoax ?

Exactly the same here in the UK, seemingly a blackout of the trials existence. Last night I said the very same to my Husband, so he grabbed the remote and looked through every news channels headlines, not just the UK channels, but CNN, SKY and even the teletext for entertainment news and he came to the same conclusion, nobody is reporting.

This is about Michael Jackson for goodness sakes, the guy they couldn't get enough of through life and 'death' so why is there not a single whisper. I smell a conspiracy big time, do they suddenly realise they've all been duped?   

Other Theories / Re: Michael Jackson as a character theory
« on: May 02, 2013, 09:56:32 AM »
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I can't argue with you there and, frankly I'm stumped or hesitant to suggest that Michael's changes are the result of some process that can't be explained simply by plastic surgery.  That said, could it be that the Michaels we see with sunglasses are the actors and the ones where we have a good direct look at his eyes, the 'real' Michael. And could it be all the fakes and weirdnesses are red herrings to camoflauge and make believable a far more incredible transformation. 

The man with sunglasses is Michael too, he is shy and likes to wear them however as I said there are many looks alike swarming over there and confusing people, remember the one that approaches at the Sony speech (1:39) where Michael said Mottola was an evil man, he was exactly almost the same as if he were his twin but you know..... different, I am able to see "ALWAYS" those differences, and another thing is if you listen carefully to his voice you'll notice he does have a black man voice but softer, Jermaine also has a soft voice and nobody is questioning if he is a black man, look at Latoya does she look like a black woman?? is she the same woman as when she was younger?? ask yourself, even Katherine did use plastic surgery look at her nose before and now, just saying.

BTW in case you hadn't noticed, he is wearing a bulletproof vest in that speech, poor Michael, I love you!!


What a really interesting debate! It's good to be open and forward with a line of thought Gwynned. I for one had a moment where I was confused who the real Michael Jackson was, what with the twin theory and doubles coming out of the woodwork after the 25th June, but the one thing none of them can replicate is the true essence of Michael. When you know, you know, so to speak. The only person close to replicating him in his temporary absence to my mind is sofurgofromashes, now he does have me confused at times!

Also, I really don't think we would be seeing Katherine fighting in a court of law for a person other than her own flesh and blood, there is just to much at stake.

As for the brand MJ, yes I have no doubt that many jumped on the bandwagon and we know very little of how we as fans were manipulated over the years.

Love the comparative photo's and also just to say, I get where you are coming from Sweetsunset (hug), as I have spent a lifetime alongside Michael's efforts to heal the world and his messages of love and respect have always been parallel to my own, but to think about the fact that Michael was not Michael would make my head spin off it's shoulders!

With Love.

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