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31
« on: July 30, 2014, 06:19:49 AM »
^^^RK, it wasn't right from me to 'compare' Savile and Michael, for obvious reasons. i'm sorry for that.
Michael was displaying his love for children and I have not a single shred of doubt in my heart that his love for them wasn't pure and sincere.
Maybe I can give you another example. A female co-worker of mine had, while (happily) married, a short (and sexual) relationship with another co-worker (also married). Because people started to suspect 'something' was going on, she took a step ahead and, in some kind of 'joky' manner, 'admitted' she and him were totally in love and crazy about one another. That isn't something people expect to hear, they expect strong denials and exasperation. Thus, they concluded, they were totally wrong about their suspicion of this so called 'love-affair', because if this affair were true, she wouldn't be so 'in their face' about it.
I don't know if I have made clear what I was trying to tell you. But in short: sometimes 'in your face' is the best disguise.
And, once again, I know this is a very difficult subject and I am not accusing anyone, just trying to compare some parallels.
32
« on: July 30, 2014, 04:58:13 AM »
Hi Shy,
Yes I scanned through the link you put up (thank you for that, it was a reeaaal long one, I have to read it again more carefully right now!) and indeed it IS all highly suspicious, however I would like to wait and hear what will happen in October, that's when a court hearing is scheduled if I remember it correctly.
33
« on: July 30, 2014, 04:45:14 AM »
As well as all of the material 'out there' that we are all familiar with (from both sides), for me, what has always been overlooked is that Michael never hid his love and care for children. It was on display for the whole world to see even down to the brass statues around the grounds of Neverland that depicted boys and girls at play in many settings.
Both Savile (Much of Savile's career involved working with children and young people, including visiting schools and hospital wards. At the time of his death, and funeral in Leeds Cathedral, he was widely praised for his charity and voluntary activities as well as his entertainment work) and Sandusky (said he loved being around kids and started the successful Second Mile Charity) were known for their love for children. That is why we have to be careful and not immediately call everyone a liar, as hard as this is.
34
« on: July 30, 2014, 03:34:57 AM »
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35
« on: July 30, 2014, 03:00:24 AM »
Hi Shy and RK, Thank you for your answers, please don't think that I go with every lie that is told in the media. Up untill Robson and Safechuck came out with their accusations, I wouldn't even start to discuss this. In the cases of the Chandlers and Arvizos it was pretty evident that money was the reason behind all of it. However, after Robson (who vehemently denied abuse in the past, even testified in favor of Michael) and Safechuck (never read something about him in his adult years), and after I read some quotes of Ken Lanning (former FBI agent and now consultant in crimes against children), it is not too crazy to ask yourself the question: are these men lying or not? Child-lover molesters almost never use violence for sex, said Lanning. Instead, they groom and seduce and manipulate and use cooperation to get what they want out of the child. "I can't tell you how many cases where there are letters from the victim written to the accused, saying, 'You're the nicest person I ever met,' or 'You've been so good to me,'" said Lanning. Many victims don't tell anyone of the inappropriate behavior because they are considered "compliant child victims." "A child can't legally consent to having sex, but some of them aren't necessarily fighting him off," said Lanning. "They're developmentally immature, and later they feel ashamed and embarrassed that they cooperated in their victimization."
Because victims of acquaintance exploitation usually have been carefully seduced and often do not realize they are victims, they repeatedly and voluntarily return to the offender. Society and the criminal-justice system have a difficult time understanding this. If a boy is molested by his neighbor, teacher, or clergy member, why does he "allow" it to continue? Most likely he may not initially realize he is a victim. Some victims are simply willing to trade sex for attention, affection, and gifts and do not believe they are victims. The sex itself might even be enjoyable. The offender may be treating them better than anyone has ever treated them.
Most of these victims never disclose their victimization. Younger children may believe they did something "wrong" or "bad" and are afraid of getting into trouble. Older children may be more ashamed and embarrassed. Many victims not only do not disclose, but they strongly deny it happened when confronted. In one case several boys took the stand and testified concerning the high moral character of the accused molester. When the accused molester changed his plea to guilty, he admitted that the boys who testified for him were also victims.
The most common reasons that victims do not disclose are stigma of homosexuality, lack of societal understanding, presence of positive feelings for the offender, embarrassment or fear over their victimization, or do not believe they are victims. Since most of the offenders are male, the stigma of homosexuality is a serious problem for male victims. Although being seduced by a male child molester does not necessarily make a boy a homosexual, the victims do not understand this. If a victim does disclose, he believes that he is risking significant ridicule by his peers and lack of acceptance by his family. And: You are not allowed to view links.
Register or Login(It wouldn't let me copy and paste the text) In the Savile case, the claims of abuse came forward almost a year after his death. You are not allowed to view links.
Register or LoginAgain, I'm NOT saying Michael was an abuser, I AM saying: how can we 1000% sure these man (Robson and Safechuck) are lying?
36
« on: July 29, 2014, 04:59:17 PM »
One of the things I would like to talk about (as in 'the other scenarios) but yet I'm afraid to.....
How can we be a 1.000 % sure that Wade Robson, and others who came forward, are all liars?
(Please, all I want is a decent discussion, and in no way am I accusing anyone. If this discussion is not allowed, then I ask a moderator to delete this post).
37
« on: July 29, 2014, 01:05:33 PM »
I've always had doubts about the estate (and Sony, because they also ended up with loads of money. And the estate made, ofcourse, the deal with Sony). I also have doubts about the family but thats's a subject for the other thread. You are not allowed to view links.
Register or Login(Btw Is it me, or is the forum (writing a post) awfully slow these past few days?
38
« on: July 25, 2014, 07:55:53 AM »
Thanks RK, I'm going to try it!
39
« on: July 25, 2014, 03:28:00 AM »
Hi RK, can you tell me where I can download the pdf of the Sullivan book? I've already read several parts of it, and I'm very interested to read the whole thing!
40
« on: July 24, 2014, 05:24:17 PM »
Well Curls, I have to admit that man is a true mystery to me! I can't remember for the life of me seeing any murderer getting so much attention and airtime (and hate) as Murray. Indeed strange that he seems never to get attacked by angry fans, yet he is totally all over the place. Is it possible that he is part of an alternate hoax (I mean that he is 'contracted' to play his part in the 'Michael-hoax', after letting Michael die by accident or on purpose? And so is he perhaps working for the 'enemy'?). Again, I don't have a clue!
@Shy, LOL, I am totally seeing Debbie speaking like that. I can't remember reading it before, and ofcourse we don't know if she ever said it. But it sounded like her!
41
« on: July 24, 2014, 03:20:01 PM »
Could this be true, would she say something like that? (published 26th November 2013) You are not allowed to view links.
Register or LoginMichael Jackson's ex-wife predicts Conrad Murray will be shot dead in 18 monthsMICHAEL Jackson’s ex-wife Debbie Rowe urged his fans to kill death doctor Conrad Murray, saying: “I’d buy the bullet".She lashed out after the disgraced medic questioned Jacko’s relationship with her in a recent interview. Murray, who was jailed for involuntary silence after he was released from prison last month. He said: “Michael told me he never slept with Debbie Rowe. We joked that neither of us would want to have sex with her.” But Rowe, mum of two of Jackson’s children, hit back yesterday and told aUS website Murray would be dead in 18 months. She fumed: “A Jackson fan will shoot him dead, and I’d buy the bullet. I wouldn’t shoot him but I’d buy the bullet.” Debbie even said she would buy a “hollow-point” expanding shell to make his death more painful. Responding to his sex slur, she added: “If I had a dog as ugly as him I’d shave its ass, make it walk backwards and put a wig on it. “It takes two to f*** and there’s not enough alcohol in the world.” Murray, 60, has also insisted Jackson killed himself by overdosing on a private stash of drugs. But Rowe dismissed those claims, saying: “It’s so disgusting, he’s trashing the dead. The jury sure didn’t buy his story.” The former nurse, 54, met the King of Pop at a skin treatment centre and they married in 1996.
42
« on: July 24, 2014, 02:29:27 PM »
This is an excerpt from You are not allowed to view links.
Register or LoginEarly Life and Medical TrainingConrad Robert Murray was born on February 19, 1953, in St. Andrews, Grenada. The man who would become embroiled in the controversy surrounding the death of the "King of Pop" in June 2009 did not come from money. With his mother Milta spending most of her time in Trinidad and Tobago in search of better paying work, Murray lived with his maternal grandparents, two Grenadian farmers. His fractured family life was compounded by the total absence of his father, Rawle Andrews, a Houston area physician who, up until his death in 2001, focused his career on offering medical services to the poor. Conrad didn't meet his dad until he was 25. At the age of seven, Murray relocated to Trinidad and Tobago to live with his mother, where he became a citizen and finished high school. Like Milta, Murray was determined to make a better life for himself, demonstrating at an early age a propensity to work hard. After high school he volunteered as an elementary school teacher in Trinidad, an experience he followed with work as a customs clerk and an insurance underwriter in order to pay for his college education. Murray also wasn't afraid to take advantage of an opportunity. At the age of 19 he bought his first house, then later sold it for a decent profit to support his university tuition in the United States. In 1980, two years after first visiting Houston and getting a chance to introduce himself to his father, Conrad Murray returned to Texas to enroll at Texas Southern University, where in just three years he graduated magna cum laude with a degree in pre-medicine and biological sciences. From there, Murray followed in his father's footsteps and attended the primarily African-American Meharry Medical College in Nashville, Tennessee. Upon graduating Maharre, Murray enrolled for additional training at the Mayo Clinic in Minnesota and then completed his residency at Loma Linda University Medical Center in California. Other training stints followed; he studied at the University of Arizona on a Cardiology Fellowship, and landed back in California, where he eventually worked as the associate director for the interventional cardiology fellowship-training program at Sharp Memorial Hospital in San Diego. Practicing Medicine in Las Vegas
In 1999, Dr. Murray left California for a second time and struck out on his own, opening up a private practice in Las Vegas. Locating his office just east of the strip, Murray—again taking a cue from his father—aimed to serve not just the city's wealthy, but its underserved as well. In 2006, Murray expanded his scope and returned to the city where his father had made a name for himself to open the Acres Homes Heart and Vascular Institute. "We have been so lucky to have Dr. Murray and that clinic in this community," Houston patient Ruby Mosley told People magazine. "There are many, many patients that thank God this man was here for them." Those who've had financial dealings with the doctor, however, might feel otherwise. Unpaid debts, lawsuits, and tax liens have followed Dr. Murray's life. More than $400,000 in court judgments alone were issued against his Las Vegas practice, and in December 2008 Dr. Murray, who has an unknown number of children, was ordered to cough up $3,700 in unpaid child support. (Again the debt issues)
43
« on: July 24, 2014, 01:49:22 PM »
Thats it...those were the tweets.
Reading those tweets I definitely don't think she is a knower, playing the role of a non-believer.
44
« on: July 24, 2014, 01:47:49 PM »
sooo if they have your brain they still need hair follicles for drug testing?
Wow, never thought of that , you are right, good question.
Your entire drug history is stored in your hair (ofcourse it depends on the length of your hair). I guess it stays there much longer than in your brain.
45
« on: July 22, 2014, 03:43:24 PM »
First of all thanks to everyone who understood what I was trying to say and backed me up! That's why I still like being here. I'm certainly not here to 'bash' anyone (which I don't think I did), I was just trying to tell you how I feel about all of this. Been here since the beginning so I know what I'm talking about. None of you has to share my opinion, I just don't want to see anybody getting hurt. Unless one would spend the rest of one's life waiting for Michael (like some are waiting for Elvis' return for 37 years now), it just can't hurt to view other scenario's, which I would like to do on this forum. What is the use of being here for many more years to come, when Michael already has decided to never come back (in case he is still alive). Were his clues just a 'goodbye' to us? Maybe we will never know. Like Curls said in a previous post: 'but in the end we know very little'. Again, I was pretty much convinced there was a hoax, but too much has happened since, which made me feel more and more uncertain that Michael was behind this and I began to read without my hoax glasses on. Please don't think this was easy for me, like I said, I would love to be wrong. Quote Curls: Just because he's not back (yet, or ever) doesn't mean there's no hoax or that MJ isn't fully behind it. Difficult though it may be, we have to realise this is not about us and our assumptions, expectations and hopes. It's his life, (and 'death') and we can speculate all we want (as we have been for 5 long years) but in the end we know very little, because we're not in his brain! Curls, I always admire your optimism, your politeness and I love to read your posts. I feel what we are doing here on this forum is ALL about our assumptions, expectations and hopes! It's been so for five long years! And it's ALL speculation on our part. What if we are wrong? We don't want to be wrong, we want Michael to be invincible, but if Karen's writing to Tookie was true, then it isn't strange to think something was seriouly wrong with him and the question then is: was it by his own doing (using too much medication) or was he slowly poisened, like was rumored back then? @Michaelslady: never did I discount the opinion as believers as nonsense, I was a hopeful believer myself. Like I said, been here since the beginning. If you want to believe, please believe. I just want to share my thoughts with others. And like Thriller said, what BS are you referring to? @Michaelslady: just read your last post. You are right, there were lots and lots of contradictions and lies. The family has a major part in it. But the family aren't saints in my view. I believe there was a lot going on, and jealousy was part of it. Is it possible that the family told lies as part of a deal, or to keep the moneytrain going? Just to watch it in a different light, hoaxy stuff suddenly has a different meaning. @Sweet, again, are you reading my posts anyway or are you just acting like this when you see my name? 'Other 'non-believer' members BASHING real 'believers' theories'......Really? I don't think I missed much of the believers theories, and like I said I believed in them too. What I voiced to you was that I just am afraid people are getting hurt because they are being fooled. If you feel otherwise that's okay. As a fellow member I asked you a few times if you could share why you believe 1000000000000%, but you never did that. Why? @Sweet: Just read you last post: Sweet, if you feel I attack you then I apologize, that isn't my intention AT ALL!! But I remember very well how upset and devastated you were a while ago (you know what I'm referring to). All I did every time was tryning to tell you to keep a certain dose of caution, only because I CARE about your well being! If you feel that was an attack, I'm sorry. And ofcourse you are still welcome here! Just wishing you could eleborate more why you are so convinced!
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