Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators
Hoax Theories => The Double Theory => Topic started by: mjkate on April 11, 2010, 07:46:36 PM
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I am sooo confused about this. Just when I think i have it figured out something happens to change my mind. I really do think there are 2 Michaels as some of you are speculating. I am even pretty sure there could be 2 from the beginning. I have a theory on that but I am too afraid to say who I think it could be because it's offensive if I am wrong and I am upset with myself for even thinking it. Anyway back to my dilemma. Is there a Michael Joe and a Michael Joseph who are 2 different people? Let's pretend that everything that has been put out there can be believed. Here we go; since Michael Joseph has the death cert and the will in his name...I'll assume he is the one who died. If true then he is the one who is 5'9" since that is what was said in the autopsy. Deborah Landis and Zaldi have both measured him for costumes and they say he is 5'9". If were still going with this then we could say that Michael Joe did Thriller and costumes for TII were made for Michael Joe. Joseph married LMP (marriage cert) and Debbie Rowe and had the kids (birth cert). Then I get to the trial in 05 - he is 5'11' but in court docs he is Michael Joe so there goes my theory. :| Unless Michael Joe was too upset to go to court and Michael Joseph allowed himself to be arrested in his place. Or unless a double was arrested and fingerprinted etc. How would they have known they had the real Michael Jackson that day? I read once that E Casanova was asked to do something in November 03. Is he 5'11'? I always thought the mug shot looked really different than any MJ I had seen up to that point. Thanks for reading.
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I really don't know but I agree with you about the mug shot. when I first saw that on the news I was like what...that does not look like Michael Jackson but I dismissed it thinking that mug shots are typically terrible but now when you see his height as 5"11 we know that's wrong so who did they measure that day? And they do make you take off your shoes when your booked. I don't know. So many things are off. :?
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The fingerprints they got from mike at the police station matched those of the fingerprints on the porn mags they used for evidence in the trial that were hidden in his house. I think the mug shot is the real him.
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Since we know forever that Jacksons have 9 children (Marlon's twin died long time ago), so physically there are 9 children, then Michael does not have twin ot there are no 2 Michaels. But, I think very possible that Michael made some ID as Michael Joe or Joseph Jackson (to confuse people) to one his impersonators to use not only for public appearance but also just in other different cases. Michael is genious, right? Maybe that impersonator is the one who passed away, I hope. (sorry my God)
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thank you to all who replied. i think we'll get closer to solving this (even if it takes piecing it together piece by piece) I know, I am so conscious of not wanting to say that someone died. I hope there was no body to be honest. My one thought that I have found offensive even to myself was (since the Jackson's birth records are sealed) I wondered if Marlon's twin really didn't die and maybe that was the extra Jackson. (sorry my god!!) I know that is extremely unlikely and I think I am going insane. Do any of you know WHY the Jackson's birth records are sealed??
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The fingerprints they got from mike at the police station matched those of the fingerprints on the porn mags they used for evidence in the trial that were hidden in his house. I think the mug shot is the real him.
that mug shot i just cant look at anymore.... took one look and scared the shit outta me ... (Sorry Michael)
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thank you to all who replied. i think we'll get closer to solving this (even if it takes piecing it together piece by piece) I know, I am so conscious of not wanting to say that someone died. I hope there was no body to be honest. My one thought that I have found offensive even to myself was (since the Jackson's birth records are sealed) I wondered if Marlon's twin really didn't die and maybe that was the extra Jackson. (sorry my god!!) I know that is extremely unlikely and I think I am going insane. Do any of you know WHY the Jackson's birth records are sealed??
I have also entertained the idea from time to time that Marlon's twin could have still been alive as well. I'll put my head on the block with this one and go further to say, [this is only my opinion and gut feeling here] and if we read between the lines and draw from what is being implied but not necessarily stated , I think that the times we've seen MJ and Bubbles dressed exactly the same, could have been Joker's way of letting us in on the gag. I read a post from Liz Taylor after the supposed passing of MJ and she was reminiscing on when they first met. Before Mike visitted her, he rang to see if she would mind if he brought his chimp along as well, and she said sure, why not. It left me feeling very odd and then she tweeted to look at the man in the mirror. Also while on tour I have read that Mike did not socialize with the rest of the crew members or the band. This seems also odd unless there was something to be kept secret.
As you can see how weird my thoughts can be I encourage you to just be courageous and say what you are thinking.
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Interesting topic although I really don't have a theory on the topic.
The Mugshot DID NOT LOOK LIKE MJ AT ALL. I remember seeing it and going he didn't even look like then going in or coming out of the jail, so how the hell did he end up looking like that on the mugshot. Anyway that remains a mystery.
Hummm I don't think MJ had a twin, I don't think that is something that could be hidden because even though MJ was very powerful and influencial, he didn't have that when he was younger. All that info would have been exposed.
I guess maybe that Joe and Joseph were used interchangeably, he only shortened his middle name.
So I guess the key to this question is to find out is it acceptable to use a shortened middle name; we all know it's fine to use just the first letter.
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Well I agree with the mug shot photo. He sort of looked "freakish" and very "odd" (sorry Michael). But from day 1, I always thought there was definitely an attempt on someones life, and because MJ uses a double stand in at rehearsals, it could have been the look-a-like that was injured or killed during rehearsals or something. That's why the FBI and CIA had to be involved. It's now getting closer to finding the real killers and the best way to do that, is if they believe MJ is really dead!!! If any of the dancers or band members and Kenny Ortega witnessed it, they would also have a gag order, until the person or persons are captured and put away. So this very elaborate plan, cannot be done by MJ alone. He is in protective custody and is allowed some freedom as long as he is in disguise. That's why the family are not really lying at all, and keep saying he was murdered, but never can say who it was. MJ (impersonater) was killed. They are playing the part of making sure it looks real. And that's the only time the real MJ can come back safely. When the murders are caught and jailed. Now that's a story and a half !!! I must be going crazy . As always with L.O.V.E xox
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by mjkate ยป Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:46 am
I am sooo confused about this. Just when I think i have it figured out something happens to change my mind. I really do think there are 2 Michaels as some of you are speculating. I am even pretty sure there could be 2 from the beginning. I have a theory on that but I am too afraid to say who I think it could be because it's offensive if I am wrong
Is your theory Marlon's twin or someone else?
Those who think the mug shot is scary, need not feel alone!
Instead of us worrying about being or sounding like we are
being of offensive, it is getting close to the time, we should
feel offended.
Some are not looking at total package of bill of goods. This
whole package we are expected to buy and keep our minds closed.
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We still would like to know who Mike J Jackson is (born January 28, 1960) who is listed below Michael J Jackson, under the relatives of Katherine Jackson when you search for her details on Intelius.
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/intelius_katherine2.jpg)
We pulled the background report of Mike J Jackson, and all real estate of which we know it's owned by Michael Jackson, is listed under his name.
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I didn't forget about that one either. But where did this one
live or was born at? Was it in Indiana?
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Intelius background reports don't list the place of birth.
What it does show is that Mike J Jackson lived at 4641 Hayvenhurst:
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/blog/FOTOADDRESSESHOME.jpg)
More screenshots of the Intelius backgound check of Mike J Jackson are shown in our blog "The Mike J Jackson ~ Michael J Jackson thing again" at http://doubledutchblogs.wordpress.com/2 ... ing-again/ (http://doubledutchblogs.wordpress.com/2009/11/16/the-mike-j-jackson-michael-j-jackson-thing-again/)
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IMO, the only double that was used in Michael's life may of had been Mike Jackson.
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IMO, the only double that was used in Michael's life may of had been Mike Jackson.
That doesn't explain Michael Jackson's real estate listed in Mike J Jackson's name, i.e. the Hayvenhurst house, co owned with LaToya, unless he changed his name to Mike J Jackson. But then I'd like an explanation as to why Michael J Jackson is still listed as one of Katherine's relatives. When names have changed, Intelius only shows the new name, not the old one next to the new one.
We pulled the background report for Michael J Jackson as well, and it shows NONE of Michael Jackson's real estate.
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It's about the different height...
Here a found info's about E Casanova Evans from the IMDB :
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0262721/resume (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0262721/resume)
He was 5 feet heigh.
The differences are rearly interesting !
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I had read the theory of "twins" on Souza & Mo's blog.
I confess that I was shocked but the doubt has crept. Even now.
Some doubts remain ... but it is still theorie, the truth will prevail :?
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But, whats that? Thats from the copyright Catalog Michael JOE 1958 -
Michael Joseph 1958 - 2009
http://[url=http][img]http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/9347/michaeljoe.jpg[/img][/url]
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But, whats that? Thats from the copyright Catalog Michael JOE 1958 -
Michael Joseph 1958 - 2009
http://[url=http][img]http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/9347/michaeljoe.jpg[/img][/url]
Hello Wendst6,
i have try to post it for weeks, but the links to the copyright catalog dosn't work or changed....it was so sad, because i found results for
- Michael Joe Jackson....from the early years.
- Michael Jackson...and behind his name i found it was the short version for Michael Joe ! Jackson.
Michael Jackson had the most copyrights.
- then Michael Joseph Jackson....only a few copyrights from the 90th....and the copyright for the :
Estate of Michael Joseph Jackson !!!
Very very interesting !
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I try :
http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebre ... 0345&SID=3 (http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?v1=27&ti=26,27&Search%5FArg=jackson%20michael%20joseph&Search%5FCode=NALL&CNT=25&PID=Sr6_pu5tnWgFQl7fym380NO4y&SEQ=20100412050345&SID=3)
Does it work ????????????
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Please notice:
Michael Joseph Jackson 1958-2009
Michael Joe Jackson 1958-
http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebre ... ITBUTTON=0 (http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?PostSearchSortBy1=PUB_DATE&HID=7941362&HID=7941365&HID=7876501&HID=7941363&HID=8068607&HID=7942349&HID=8052829&HID=8068606&HID=8220547&HID=7968530&HID=8067309&HID=8067308&HID=8085093&HID=7856861&HID=8085097&HID=7941364&HID=7876502&HID=7941366&HID=8220548&HID=8068608&HID=7968529&PostSearchSortBy2=NULL&Search_Arg=Jackson%2C+Michael+Joe%2C+1958-&Search_Code=NALL%2B&ti=1%2C0&CNT=25&PID=cyYpBFdeZEyZofTGCQrYqdOom&SEQ=20100412050629&REC=0&RD=0&RC=0&MAILADDY=&EMAILADDRESS=None&LIMITBUTTON=0)
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Here the estat of Michael JOSEPH Jackson.
http://[url=http][img]http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/1395/mjoseph.jpg[/img][/url]
...and Michael JOE Jackson. But this is not fond!
http://[url=http][img]http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/9292/michaeljoe1.jpg[/img][/url]
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I've posted this in the Joe/Joseph section, but this is what I think:
He was born as Joe, and changed his name around the period that he 'fired' Joe.
He said that the boundary between his life as an artist, and his private life was too vague, so he changed his artist name into Joseph.
The older songs in the catalogue are all listed under Michael Joe Jackson, and later he used the name Michael Joseph Jackson. The only thing that I find strange, is that he used the name Michael Joe Jackson again a couple of times. I don't know exactly where I saw it and which songs it were.
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And...we still have a Mike J Jackson...
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And...we still have a Mike J Jackson...
Sorry, but I still have no explanation for him ;)
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:? And who changed the name MIKAEEL Jackson?
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:? And who changed the name MIKAEEL Jackson?
I have never seen this name on official documents that lead to 'our' Michael.
So maybe this is just a rumor?
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Maybe a rumor, but the news was in india? but whether this is reported elsewhere?
and whether there is any official document of paper?
Indian link to the news, which I just do not understand anything :oops: but to the extent that MJ changed his name Mikaeel ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q_RoK_wrDw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q_RoK_wrDw)
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As far as I know, he never converted and that it was just a story from The Sun. If he really converted, we would have seen that name on documents.
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So just wondering if he changed his name to Mikaeel, so he should have then also
bury name Mikaeel Jackson? :roll: so then you Mikaeel name is not dead / buried ;)
so this would be to ask who was the Michael Joseph Jackson?
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Just like I've said before, I don't believe that he changed his name into Mikaeel, so that guy doesn't exist at all imo.
His name was Michael Joe Jackson, and the 'dead' guy is Michael Joseph Jackson. The artist 'died' imo, not the person.
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:? And who changed the name MIKAEEL Jackson?
There is no relative to Katherine or Joe listed with the name Mikaeel.
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:? And who changed the name MIKAEEL Jackson?
There is no relative to Katherine or Joe listed with the name Mikaeel.
but the interesting thing to think about anyway when that name has been mentioned, I mean fell as part of the plan ... changed its name, six months of life left ... :roll:
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:? And who changed the name MIKAEEL Jackson?
There is no relative to Katherine or Joe listed with the name Mikaeel.
but the interesting thing to think about anyway when that name has been mentioned, I mean fell as part of the plan ... changed its name, six months of life left ... :roll:
- A name change - yes, very plausible.
- Mikaeel - No. That name is connected to the "Mike converted to Islam" theory. Even if that turns out to be true, that's not a legal name change as far as I know.
[/b]
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Awwwwww maaaannnnnnnnn,,....c'mon guys!!! Dont do this to me on Monday morning!! Its too early to even think.... :mrgreen: .......this is a great thread though!!
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Awwwwww maaaannnnnnnnn,,....c'mon guys!!! Dont do this to me on Monday morning!! Its too early to even think.... :mrgreen: .......this is a great thread though!!
:lol: Just giving you some food for thought ;)
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Awwwwww maaaannnnnnnnn,,....c'mon guys!!! Dont do this to me on Monday morning!! Its too early to even think.... :mrgreen: .......this is a great thread though!!
:lol: Just giving you some food for thought ;)
:mrgreen:
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And...we still have a Mike J Jackson...
My father has 13 brothers and sisters. I have 50 first cousins. Yes, family gatherings are large...anyways, I have an aunt and two cousins that I resemble. One cousin looks so much like me (or I like her) that whenever I see that part of the family it always comes up in conversation just how much I look like Angie. Just a thought - maybe it wasn't a brother but another relative like a cousin. In fact I have two cousins with the same first name.
In the screen print it mentions NJ as an address. That would explain a different relative, like a cousin instead of someone who lived under the same roof as a young child. I think if it was a brother it would be known by someone outside of the immediate family.
I also remember seeing Michael's mug shot and wondering how someone could look so "unlike" themselves. "Mugshot Mike" and "Michael who went to court" even looked different. Court Mike looked like the real Michael in my opinion. Michael does seem to change appearance a lot.
...so in conclusion maybe we should be looking at other relatives to see if there was a Mike J Jackson born in 1960. Also, it lists Katherine as a "relative". It doesn't say she's the mother. That wouldn't be lying if she is an aunt.
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im courious about marlons twin. when was the first time you guys heard of marlon having a twin? i had never heard this before the memorial.
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I hadn't heard that and while I think it would be normal to mention this twin at the memorial, I also wondered if there was some significance of what Marlon said (ie) drawing our attention to the twin/double concept. I feel bad mentioning that if in fact Marlon did have a twin that died. I posted what I am attaching below n another thread to show just how many different ears I keep seeing. It's a quick glance along some pictures that you might find interesting so I am reposting it below...I hope that is allowed. I like the idea of the "twin or double" being a cousin or relative. It would help explain why no one noticed an extra child in the early years. Also, if this "mike joe" lived at Hayvenhurst it would explain why Layota put that address on the death certificate. She showed up at 100 North Carolwood drive pretty quick after he "died" so she would have been just as capable of writing that address on the death certificate if it was true.
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/Mic (http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/Mic) ... id=7978250
Please look at the ear specifically in 1, 9, 11 and towards the end the ear in the smooth criminal photo. These are different ears and I don't think there is any mistaking it. All of these pics are interesting. I have seen them before but not side by side. I was shocked at a couple but the ears are just not the same camera angles and lighting aside.mjkate
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:36 pm
Private message
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I've heard of him before, about his twin bro. But I can't remember where and when, I've never paid much attention to it.
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And...we still have a Mike J Jackson...
My father has 13 brothers and sisters. I have 50 first cousins. Yes, family gatherings are large...anyways, I have an aunt and two cousins that I resemble. One cousin looks so much like me (or I like her) that whenever I see that part of the family it always comes up in conversation just how much I look like Angie. Just a thought - maybe it wasn't a brother but another relative like a cousin. In fact I have two cousins with the same first name.
In the screen print it mentions NJ as an address. That would explain a different relative, like a cousin instead of someone who lived under the same roof as a young child. I think if it was a brother it would be known by someone outside of the immediate family.
I also remember seeing Michael's mug shot and wondering how someone could look so "unlike" themselves. "Mugshot Mike" and "Michael who went to court" even looked different. Court Mike looked like the real Michael in my opinion. Michael does seem to change appearance a lot.
...so in conclusion maybe we should be looking at other relatives to see if there was a Mike J Jackson born in 1960. Also, it lists Katherine as a "relative". It doesn't say she's the mother. That wouldn't be lying if she is an aunt.
I agree...:"Just a thought - maybe it wasn't a brother but another relative like a cousin. In fact I have two cousins with the same first name".... :!: :?:
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im courious about marlons twin. when was the first time you guys heard of marlon having a twin? i had never heard this before the memorial.
LaToya mentions Marlon's twin brother in her book, which she wrote in 1991.
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And...we still have a Mike J Jackson...
My father has 13 brothers and sisters. I have 50 first cousins. Yes, family gatherings are large...anyways, I have an aunt and two cousins that I resemble. One cousin looks so much like me (or I like her) that whenever I see that part of the family it always comes up in conversation just how much I look like Angie. Just a thought - maybe it wasn't a brother but another relative like a cousin. In fact I have two cousins with the same first name.
In the screen print it mentions NJ as an address. That would explain a different relative, like a cousin instead of someone who lived under the same roof as a young child. I think if it was a brother it would be known by someone outside of the immediate family.
I also remember seeing Michael's mug shot and wondering how someone could look so "unlike" themselves. "Mugshot Mike" and "Michael who went to court" even looked different. Court Mike looked like the real Michael in my opinion. Michael does seem to change appearance a lot.
...so in conclusion maybe we should be looking at other relatives to see if there was a Mike J Jackson born in 1960. Also, it lists Katherine as a "relative". It doesn't say she's the mother. That wouldn't be lying if she is an aunt.
I agree...:"Just a thought - maybe it wasn't a brother but another relative like a cousin. In fact I have two cousins with the same first name".... :!: :?:
All very nicely put together, but that still does not explain why all the real estate owned by "Michael Jackson" is listed in the background report of Mike J Jackson, and not in Michael J Jackson's.
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One thing that pops up in my mind about the Mike J Jackson thing, is that in the early years Michael was told to lie about his age for publicity. Maybe there is a record somewhere of him being born in 1960 rather than 1958. It could be that that site found a document of a "Mike J Jackson, born 1960", couldn't trace it any farther than that, and just put that person down as being a "relative" of Katherine Jackson.
Maybe? *shrugs*
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Yes they did make him a year or two younger and so could have got a fake birth certificate for that.
I think that this double only came into existence after the dangerous tour - after the first allegations.
The double theory is strange for me - because if Michael had a double to fill in because he did not like to tour or socialize why did the double also back out last minute from all the appearances. He is obviously there as a stand in - so why did he not? It is strange to have a double who also just goes out in masks and never entertains the public. I can understand one with a phobia, why two?
I don't think this double existed from small, cos definitely they would have exploited him and not kept him to be an understudy. Joe was all about the business and he would have tried to capitalize on any other child talent.
Also, after the case verdict, Michael was said to have ODed - could something terrible have happened to him then?
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I think that this double only came into existence after the dangerous tour - after the first allegations.
But he already had in the original Bad video a double, that was before the Dangerous era.
http://[url=http][img]http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/5321/bad21.jpg[/img][/url]
...and here is the original video. From 2:49 it is the other Michael.
[youtube:py1g82v4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVEjPMOL8ho[/youtube:py1g82v4]
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the vid wont play...it says property of SONY.....bastards.
I think its MJ all the way. Vids are shot over the course of a few days...so his hair may look different
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the vid wont play...it says property of SONY.....bastards.
I think its MJ all the way. Vids are shot over the course of a few days...so his hair may look different
do you wonder why the video was removed? because maybe Sony made a oops knowing a double was in the video.?
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the vid wont play...it says property of SONY.....bastards.
I think its MJ all the way. Vids are shot over the course of a few days...so his hair may look different
do you wonder why the video was removed? because maybe Sony made a oops knowing a double was in the video.?
well then they should have realised that 20-some yrs ago. When youtube came out they should have pulled it then.
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Tried it once so. I hope you can see it.
from 1.53
[youtube:slqn9i4s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b8k65r7hc4&feature=fvw[/youtube:slqn9i4s]
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I found this about E'Cas:
E'Casanova, 26, has been standing in for Jacko on product endorsements and in pop videos without arousing any suspicion among even the most loyal fans.
He claims he's NEVER had plastic surgery despite being almost IDENTICAL to the superstar.
E'Casanova even fooled telly presenter Richard Madeley when he turned up for his ITV (1) See interactive TV.
(2) (iTV) The code name for Apple's video media hub (see Apple TV). show This Morning yesterday.
Richard told him: "You really are Michael Jackson. How's the chimp?"
COPYRIGHT 1997 Scottish Daily Record & Sunday
No portion of this article can be reproduced without the express written permission from the copyright holder.
Copyright 1997 Gale, Cengage Learning. All rights reserved.
If it's true, he was born in 1971... And the story that he was a toddler during J5 era isn't true...
It's annoying that I can't find his birth date...
You are a strange guy E'cas ;)
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I found this about E'Cas:
E'Casanova, 26, has been standing in for Jacko on product endorsements and in pop videos without arousing any suspicion among even the most loyal fans.
He claims he's NEVER had plastic surgery despite being almost IDENTICAL to the superstar.
E'Casanova even fooled telly presenter Richard Madeley when he turned up for his ITV (1) See interactive TV.
(2) (iTV) The code name for Apple's video media hub (see Apple TV). show This Morning yesterday.
Richard told him: "You really are Michael Jackson. How's the chimp?"
COPYRIGHT 1997 Scottish Daily Record & Sunday
No portion of this article can be reproduced without the express written permission from the copyright holder.
Copyright 1997 Gale, Cengage Learning. All rights reserved.
If it's true, he was born in 1971... And the story that he was a toddler during J5 era isn't true...
It's annoying that I can't find his birth date...
You are a strange guy E'cas ;)
Yes, i been looking all over the Internet can't find nothing about his Age!
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I gave up on searching for his age... I hope someone knows/finds it...
I don't know why, but it's strange that his birth date is never mentioned. I mean, from the most people (especially famous people) you can find it, but not from E'Cas...
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I don't think he used doubles in the "Bad" video. One screenshot has him squinting and curling his upper lip, that's why he looks different.