Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators
Latest News => Michael Jackson News => Topic started by: loyalfan on April 04, 2010, 03:18:34 AM
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CANT BELIEVE MY EYES .......!!!!!!! LOOK ON TMZ...!!!!
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WTF???????????? Check out the latest TMZ story!!!!!!!!!
I never thought this will be the defense of Murray......... :?
http://www.tmz.com (http://www.tmz.com)
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Dr. Murray's Defense - Jackson Killed Himself
Posted Apr 4th 2010 4:00AM by TMZ Staff
TMZ has learned Dr. Conrad Murray's legal defense is that Michael Jackson gave himself the fatal dose of Propofol.
Multiple sources familiar with the strategy tell TMZ the defense argument goes like this:
- At around 10:50 AM, Dr. Murray gave Jackson 25 mg of Propofol from a 20 ml bottle -- that's only about 1/8 of the bottle.
- The dose Dr. Murray administered would keep someone asleep for only 5 to 10 minutes, But the Propofol, along with the Ativan and Versed that was already in MJ's system, had a synergistic effect that put Jackson to sleep for a longer period of time.
- For the next hour, Dr. Murray stayed in the room and was on the phone for much of the time. Dr. Murray didn't leave the room to make the calls because MJ liked activity in the room, regularly sleeping with the lights on and cartoons blaring on the TV.
- At around noon, Dr. Murray left the room for approximately two minutes to go to the bathroom. While he was gone, the defense believes Jackson suddenly awakened and was frustrated he had spent nearly 9 hours trying in vain to sleep. The defense theory -- Jackson took the 20 ml bottle of Propofol and self-injected the remaining contents through the IV, causing a massive overdose that stopped his heart.
- Dr. Murray walked back in the room and saw Jackson with his eyes open and pupils dilated. Dr. Murray dropped the phone (he was speaking with his girlfriend) and began administering CPR.
The defense will argue Michael Jackson was a long-time Propofol addict -- something TMZ first reported shortly after the singer's death. As one source said, Jackson liked the sensation of Propofol being administered by IV, adding, "Michael liked to push it."
L.A. County Coroner's investigators took a picture in the room, showing an empty Propofol bottle on the floor, underneath the nightstand by Jackson's bed. The defense will argue Jackson grabbed the bottle from the nightstand, injected himself and then dropped the bottle.
Remember, law enforcement believes Dr. Murray hid bottles of Propofol before paramedics arrived. The defense will argue ... if Dr. Murray was really hiding Propofol, he would have removed the empty bottle under the nightstand that caused Jackson's death.
Ed Chernoff, Murray's attorney, could not be reached for comment.
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im speachless..
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this is too much......!!!!
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double post feel free to delete mine o.k....xxxxx
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posted at 4 am? TMZ is a west coast company is it not? in LA....it's only 1:26 here..
anyways, i don't believe this bull.
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and...was he not just alive 2 days ago? what mind games.
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link ? :shock: whats up ? :?
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in england its 9.30 am...xxxx
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double post feel free to delete mine o.k....xxxxx
We just posted in 1 minute difference.... ;)
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yea... :lol: how can they take a picture and show empty Propofol bottle.. ? :lol:
and notice how TMZ trying to say it! :lol:
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Dr. Murray's Defense - Jackson Killed Himself
Posted Apr 4th 2010 4:00AM by TMZ Staff
TMZ has learned Dr. Conrad Murray's legal defense is that Michael Jackson gave himself the fatal dose of Propofol.
Multiple sources familiar with the strategy tell TMZ the defense argument goes like this:
- At around 10:50 AM, Dr. Murray gave Jackson 25 mg of Propofol from a 20 ml bottle -- that's only about 1/8 of the bottle.
- The dose Dr. Murray administered would keep someone asleep for only 5 to 10 minutes, But the Propofol, along with the Ativan and Versed that was already in MJ's system, had a synergistic effect that put Jackson to sleep for a longer period of time.
- For the next hour, Dr. Murray stayed in the room and was on the phone for much of the time. Dr. Murray didn't leave the room to make the calls because MJ liked activity in the room, regularly sleeping with the lights on and cartoons blaring on the TV.
- At around noon, Dr. Murray left the room for approximately two minutes to go to the bathroom. While he was gone, the defense believes Jackson suddenly awakened and was frustrated he had spent nearly 9 hours trying in vain to sleep. The defense theory -- Jackson took the 20 ml bottle of Propofol and self-injected the remaining contents through the IV, causing a massive overdose that stopped his heart.
- Dr. Murray walked back in the room and saw Jackson with his eyes open and pupils dilated. Dr. Murray dropped the phone (he was speaking with his girlfriend) and began administering CPR.
The defense will argue Michael Jackson was a long-time Propofol addict -- something TMZ first reported shortly after the singer's death. As one source said, Jackson liked the sensation of Propofol being administered by IV, adding, "Michael liked to push it."
L.A. County Coroner's investigators took a picture in the room, showing an empty Propofol bottle on the floor, underneath the nightstand by Jackson's bed. The defense will argue Jackson grabbed the bottle from the nightstand, injected himself and then dropped the bottle.
Remember, law enforcement believes Dr. Murray hid bottles of Propofol before paramedics arrived. The defense will argue ... if Dr. Murray was really hiding Propofol, he would have removed the empty bottle under the nightstand that caused Jackson's death.
Ed Chernoff, Murray's attorney, could not be reached for comment.
Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0k7Ot27Ps (http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0k7Ot27Ps)
4 April 2010 4:00AM
4+3=7
2+1+4=7
77
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in england its 9.30 am...xxxx
but what did TMZ do? speed up time? am i living in the past right now? they've changed the time on this to post it specifically at 4am. i'm not a math person. anyone care to dabble in numerology for me?
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IMHO this is prepping people, laying the ground , for the comeback. Of course he killed himself, but we already know that don;t we?! ;) Just another seed that needed to be planted in people's heads. 8-)
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I LOVE TMZ ! :lol:
Happy Easter to all of you, guys !!!!
Let's keep following TMZ, I think there will be more today.....
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I can't believe this true.....Remember Jermaine on the "airplaine" interview, they asked him if he know what's going on and he said yes and had a BIG smile!
Can you imagine Jermaine thought about "well yeah, my brother killed himself, this is so funny"........hm...........I DON'T THINK SO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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perhaps what this means is......THE SINGER MICHEAL JACKSON IS DEAD....but actually MICHEAL the person IS ALIVE .....if you get me...!!!!!
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I think what more tragic than Michael's death, is Michael commited suicide. I'm sorry but i don't buy it. Jackson's was not a proper reaction for a family who just lost a family member, let alone one that commited suicide..
But this is confusing!!
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IMHO this is prepping people, laying the ground , for the comeback. Of course he killed himself, but we already know that don;t we?! ;) Just another seed that needed to be planted in people's heads. 8-)
oh yea :lol: he really killed himself.. :mrgreen:
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I think Michael would never risk like this... and not just because of his kids.. ;)
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"While he was gone, the defense believes Jackson suddenly awakened and was frustrated he had spent nearly 9 hours trying in vain to sleep."
huh? how do suddenly wake up from sleeping and then get mad that you spent 9 hours trying to sleep? does this make sense to anyone?!
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there is NO sense at all ! :lol:
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Oh sure. Exactly when Murray went to pee, in those two minutes, he woke up - after having slept or having tried to sleep? - for hours, attached the IV and administered himself Propofol... This is such a BS... It would have taken longer than two minutes for him to do that, so Murray would have found him trying to. Completely off!
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I always knew evantually they would come up with this story!
But that is total BS :twisted: I don't believe it for one sec. :twisted:
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Well, technically, if he hoaxed his death, that would be "killing himself". Get it? He killed himself by hoaxing his death.
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So he went to the bathroom whilst talking to his gf on the phone?
So basically he would be saying that within these 2 minutes SOMEONE ELSE (since he didn't) administered the lethal dose of propofol, which he believes to be Michael. Why does he believe it to have been Michael?
If fingerprints were taken, it will become clear who touched the bottle and syringe, unless they were wearing gloves.
The following dramatic scenario would have been awful. I have hesitated to mention this since the beginning, since it involves the children. However one of the options to consider is that it could have been one of the elder children to 'help daddy sleep'. It would explain some cover-ups such as Kai Chase's contradicting story or Murray's urge to make them watch CPR and missing security tapes.
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Guys relax, TIAI and TMZ definitely gave us heads up about this news. TIAI's update #4 had 44 parts, (444) explaining the article's posting date & time. And remember the huge secret Harvey was telling Mike on TMZ live, and Mike started laughing his head off and saying how weird MJ's case is? This is prob the secret, Michael giving them instructions to publish this insane story!
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I can't stop laughing.... :lol: OMG !!!!! Thank you TMZ !!!!!!!
That'sthe best Easter present (almost) !!!
C'mon ppl, rejoice !!! :)
Is there anyone who can buy that , even for a moment ??? :lol: :lol: :lol:
And " Michael liked to push it" ??? :mrgreen:
But of course, dear friends, but of course....!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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this story is soooo crazy.. :lol: and also today TIAI ...
and... hehe...
Conrad was talking with his gf in bathroom... :mrgreen: :lol:
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The following dramatic scenario would have been awful. I have hesitated to mention this since the beginning, since it involves the children. However one of the options to consider is that it could have been one of the elder children to 'help daddy sleep'. It would explain some cover-ups such as Kai Chase's contradicting story or Murray's urge to make them watch CPR and missing security tapes.
Although i can see what you mean, i don´t think this happened, apart from the missing tapes and such.
Just because i don´t think MJ would have wanted his children around that, seeing him with IV and actually "abusing drugs"..
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waiiiit i just had a thought. i'm sorry i've been post-happy with this topic. i was just watching the new "weird list" video from MJthekingoflife (it's good) and it gave me an idea....
in the video, the comic book "Fated" written by Michael and Gotham Chopra is talked about. the premise of the book is the pop star attempts to commit suicide but lives and watches the aftermath of his death play out...
how ironic...
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BS. Anyway - I always had this feeling after the news that MICHAEL JACKSON had died, in the back of my head I was thinking that perhaps He decided to kill '' Michael Jackson '' the product after all this is the money maker he is the product , the product that sells. Kill the product and rank in the mega bucks, his death what a perfect timing for the release of the This is it footage, The sony deal for another 7 years of Michael Jackson the product . If Michael is indeed alive then he should enjoy the rest of his life after working 44 years of his life . This could have been set up easy with all the people he knew at Sony etc. Never say never. However if he the person along with his product is truly dead then I hope to go we see justice for him .
Mr .C. Murry ( should not even be called a Dr. ) should get what's coming to him.
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this defence was pending since the autopsy report. Murray just got into the loophole: the AR stated it was possible but HIGHLY IMPROBABLE that MJ injected the drug himself.
That defence is the only possible for mUrray: rising a reasonable doubt...
Or it s all HOAX
I personnally buy the second option :)
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this defence was pending since the autopsy report. Murray just got into the loophole: the AR stated it was possible but HIGHLY IMPROBABLE that MJ injected the drug himself.
That defence is the only possible for mUrray: rising a reasonable doubt...
Or it s all HOAX
I personnally buy the second option :)
I like second option too! ;) :lol:
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:lol: :lol: :roll:
*coughs* I call BS...*coughs*
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Medically this is BS.
Propofol or any anaesthetic works in less than 15 secs. If any one has gone under for any procedure - you are actually asked to count to 10 and you rarely reach 10. You get groggy by 5 or so.
So if Michael had to inject himself he could not have done so coherrently for more than 5 seconds. After which there would have been a spill / the syringe or bottle would have fallen down before it was fully injected. Even if Michael really pushed it, he would have gone into cardiac arrest with convulsions and his body would have been contorted and not just lying straight with his mouth and eyes agape.
A man cannot inject something that works that fast and lie back flat so that the Doc does not know what you did, all under two minutes.
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Seriously?! LOL!!! You'd have to be mentally impaired to believe that BS. WHO in their right mind would actually buy that CRAPTASTIC story?! I really think Dr. Murray needs to get himself a new defense team! LOL Actually nevermind, it's great that he has a team of morons defending him. :lol: & just the other day, I thought CM swore up & down that MJ was alive at UCLA, now he overdosed at the house & "killed himself"?!! LOL. :lol: Just like the person above me said, there is no way MJ could have injected the propofol into his IV & then laid back down flat as if nothing happened. What a CROCK. The medicine starts working immediately, correct? So that is just not possible. This should be an interesting trial if this is the defense, LOL. Also, this story won't even hold up in court, how would they prove any of it? The prosecution is going to annihilate them IF CM is a "bad guy" or was hired by the "bad guys". But IF CM IS part of the hoax, idk how this is gonna play out. Is this going to be televised at all?
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Could they contradict themselves anymore? :roll: :lol:
The BS they expect people to believe. What do they take us for? :roll:
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well this is a rubbish defence is this the best that they have got
this is what you get for using pro bono lawyers
he should jack them now
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Piece by Piece 8-) MOHAHAHHAAHA :lol: :lol:
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okay -
so if he saw that mike had injected himself, why didnt the dumb Sh** not pick up the phone and call 911
oh mike hated needles so much that he would just stab himself with the needle - not
i thought his argument was the the mystery aid did it
are you that ridiculous
i suppose your defence team said it was worth contesting the charges, but i think he needs to do a plea
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Contenance, dears, nothing is going wrong.
There is a thread on that already:
viewtopic.php?f=72&t=8199 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=8199)
I found interesting info on the dosage of Propofol... ;)
Of course Michael killed himself. But not by Propofol...
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Well, isn't that the truth in a way?
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wouldnt the autopsy have established suicide...???????
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The King of Pop was NOT a drug addict and he did NOT commit suicide...but he did "die".
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a beautiful life was ended (?) because of this dumb sh** my new name for him
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hi there dmovie27.about.......WHAT YOU SAID............DO YOU THINK THIS IS THE "PENNY THAT NEEDS TO DROP" WITH ALL OF US...?????that YES ...............one is dead....the other is alive.............will things seem clearer if we acknowledge this....?????
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What a huge mass Murray has created around him,it's so obvious that he is in the hoax,and Michael is playing with TMZ the way he wants,piece by peace thing are coming out, Jermain's airport, LaToya's weird interview, this store, what else? i have a strong feeling that smth huge gonna happen very soon,as for me it''s great news, as one poster stated here, Michael killed himself, he killed the Michael Jackson- the king of pop the whole world knows, thus, the man- Michael is very much alive and he's kicking.
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i JUST saw this on TMZ and i was gonna post it but i checked first :)
i dnt know wat 2 think about it...i just dunno.. :? :? :(
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no i fear an aweful reality check - where pictures of mikes body will be shown in court and theyre splashed every where, the needle marks, the real death pictures
we wanted it and i fear we will get it - the final proof
i dont want this but it maybe just what we will get.
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today is the miracle day - lets hope for better things
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Medically this is BS.
Propofol or any anaesthetic works in less than 15 secs. If any one has gone under for any procedure - you are actually asked to count to 10 and you rarely reach 10. You get groggy by 5 or so.
So if Michael had to inject himself he could not have done so coherrently for more than 5 seconds. After which there would have been a spill / the syringe or bottle would have fallen down before it was fully injected. Even if Michael really pushed it, he would have gone into cardiac arrest with convulsions and his body would have been contorted and not just lying straight with his mouth and eyes agape.
A man cannot inject something that works that fast and lie back flat so that the Doc does not know what you did, all under two minutes.
OH MY GOSH THANK YOU SOO MUCH 4 THIS!!!!! i had no idea wat 2 think about the 'michael killed himself' story and defense they r gonna use and in my opinion i thought it was kinda believable but u just ruled it out as BS for me thank youuuuu xxx i wonder how the trials gonna go if they use this defense :? :?
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What is wrong with these people!!? :x
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pro bono - in america you get what you pay for or not
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They will try anything to get Murray off, he had better leave the country or his life will be hell!!! :twisted: :twisted:
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no i fear an aweful reality check - where pictures of mikes body will be shown in court and theyre splashed every where, the needle marks, the real death pictures
we wanted it and i fear we will get it - the final proof
i dont want this but it maybe just what we will get.
Oh noooooooooo! i hope not!!!
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They will try anything to get Murray off, he had better leave the country or his life will be hell!!! :twisted: :twisted:
Really..? Why..? He didn't do anything wrong, unless you think Mike is dead. This is the Michael Jackson Death HOAX Investigators website, not the Michael Jackson DEATH Investigator's...
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no i fear an aweful reality check - where pictures of mikes body will be shown in court and theyre splashed every where, the needle marks, the real death pictures
we wanted it and i fear we will get it - the final proof
i dont want this but it maybe just what we will get.
You may be right with that. People should prepare themselves emotionally for the worst right now.
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We should prepare ourselves for the worst but I don´t think that he commited suicide if he´s really dead than it was a murder. Just think about his kids, he loved life much with his kids even though he was going through so many hard and painful things. I did not read what´s written on tmz but I just can´t believe he commited suicde that not the Michael I "knew" the world Michael "knew".
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We should prepare ourselves for the worst but I don´t think that he commited suicide if he´s really dead than it was a murder. Just think about his kids, he loved life much with his kids even though he was going through so many hard and painful things. I did not read what´s written on tmz but I just can´t believe he commited suicde that not the Michael I "knew" the world Michael "knew".
We don't know how Michael felt, however I'm with you on that. Even IF Michael did give himself that extra dose, it could just have been a reckless act, not necessarily with the intent to kill himself
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if this man is dead - i think its medical negligence - Dumb Sh** and his lawyers - bad representation
but we will have to wait and see
if there is a plea then nothing will come out
but is the 5th just the prelim's?
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Unbelievable! That someone can use this as a defense. :o But Murray is innocent because Michael is alive so no need to worry. :)
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the defence know the peoples case, and if it was mike and dumb sh** (sorry must stop that) then and one party ends up dead with to much of a certain drug which he cannot admin himself - looks like he will have to do a plea but will fight till then to get the best outcome - maybe non custodial?
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its reported that Randy was there but kai says nothig about that, this aid is it the alvarez guy he is blaming
maybe this is all rubbish and the defence what to see what we will say - no this site but generally.
i cant see what other arguments that they could put forward
unless they are going to say the the med were tampered with?
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Murray in any case is fully responsible of taking care nobody could access substances such as the propofol but himself. That in itself is negligance. Even in a hospital, these are locked away and can only be accessed by staff that has permission.
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Just a reminder - did any of you actually HEAR Murray himself say that he administered anything in the first place..? If so, I must have missed it. All I have seen so far is that youtube video of Murray, and that message is pretty clear.
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I would take it easy. They had to come up with this story. I think it was in the autopsy report or something that whilst you can't set the iv up yourself after that you are perfectly capable of administering it yourself. If there is a possibility that that could be the case then Dr Murray could walk free as they might not be able to prove that he was the one who gave the fatal dose. Murray's a free man and MJ gets to live his life wherever. Thats the way I see it anyway but of course the story could be true.
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he said that he did give anything that should have killed him
well anything is dangerous in the wrong hands or negligent hands.
but wasn the whole set up wrong - he did not have the right equipment to monitor him, he needed an assistant - but hey was his sister employed as a nurse?? does anyone remember.
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Yeah and the other thing is that they ruled: homicide on the death certificate and not suicide.
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he said that he did give anything that should have killed him
Really..? Again, the only time we heard anything from Murray himself was when he spoke out on the youtube video. Please watch it again, and tell me when he said anything regarding administering any kind of drugs..?
[youtube:5lwaiu5l]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2jnVYE01BA[/youtube:5lwaiu5l]
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well i was speaking from memory, maybe from another source
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in this rumour machine we also have
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/showbiz/new ... pital.html (http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/showbiz/news/a211612/conrad-murray-jackson-alive-at-hospital.html)
Conrad Murray: 'Jackson alive at hospital'
Tuesday, March 30 2010, 20:33 BST
By Aaron Broverman, US Entertainment Reporter
Rex Features
Conrad Murray has claimed that Michael Jackson was still alive when he was taken to UCLA Medical Centre on the day of his death.
According to TMZ, the singer's former personal physician said that he was able to resuscitate Jackson's heart at the popstar's home and maintained his heart rhythm in the ambulance.
It is thought that doctors ran two EKGs on Jackson and that there was rhythmic heart activity during both times.
Murray's evaluation contradicts paramedics at the scene who wanted to take him to the morgue, not UCLA, because they believed that he was dead.
Jackson's dad Joe's lawyer Brian Oxman added that the weak pulse detected at UCLA was in reaction to resuscitation efforts.
we have jermaine saying he was not with us before he was at [airport] but meaning hospital
then we have the aides view
http://www.mtv.co.uk/artists/michael-ja ... hide-drugs (http://www.mtv.co.uk/artists/michael-jackson/news/200513-jacko-doc-stopped-cpr-to-hide-drugs)
Jacko Doc ‘Stopped CPR To Hide Drugs’And it’s claimed he delayed calling 911…
11:07, Tuesday, 23 March 2010
Michael Jackson’s doctor Conrad Murray allegedly stopped performing CPR on the singer so he could hide the drugs he’s been using - according to claims made yesterday.
A leaked statement by Jackson’s aide Alberto Alvarez claims Conrad Murray, who was the singer’s personal physician, collected vials of medicine from his bedroom and delayed calling emergency services on the day Jackson died last year.
In February this year Murray was charged with involuntary manslaughter after the post mortem revealed Jackson had high levels of the anaesthetic propofol in his system when he died.
Lawyers acting for Murray have dismissed Alvarez’ statement saying, “This statement was given more than two months after Michael Jackson's death and is inconsistent with a statement he (Alvarez) gave the police the day after Mr Jackson was taken to the hospital.”
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It is interesting how the propofol self-injection argument mirrors the same controversy that surrounded Kurt Cobain's death.
Cobain was said to have injected SUCH a lethal amount of heroine into his system that it would have knocked him out in less than 5 seconds, making him groggy instantly. He then apparently, proceeded to shoot himself in the mouth.
Personally, I believe Cobain was murdered. Michael's story seems to be following this same trend. There is absolutely no way he would have been able to inject all that himself. BS BS BS.
Little by little Michael is revealed...
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well i was speaking from memory, maybe from another source
Correct, another source. That's exactly what I mean. Sources sources sources...many unnamed sources, sources 'close to the family', sources 'close to the DA', sources 'close to the defense team', sources 'close to the LAPD'. Yet NOT ONCE one of these 'sources' stepped forward and identified himself.
TRIAL BY MEDIA is a phrase popular in the late 20th century and early 21st century to describe the impact of television and newspaper coverage on a person's reputation by creating a widespread perception of guilt regardless of any verdict in a court of law.
Didn't we learn from Mike's trial..? Why are people jumping to conclusions now, just based on 'information' provided by 'unnamed sources'? HIStory is repeating itself...
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lets turn this on its head - would effect does a suicide have on the whole thing - for the aeg insurance?
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http://www.mjfiles.com/death/dr-conrad-murray-lying/ (http://www.mjfiles.com/death/dr-conrad-murray-lying/)
As the investigation progresses and the authorities close in on the chain of events that led to Michael’s death, Dr Conrad Murray, the man at the centre of the investigation into Michael’s death, was charged with involuntary manslaughter on February 8, 2010.
Murray pleaded not guilty to the charge and was released on $75,000 bail. The judge told him he was allowed to keep practicing medicine but was not allowed to sedate anyone.
So far, the investigation has revealed holes in both Murray’s statements and in the timeline surrounding Michael’s death.
The question everyone is now asking is: is Dr Conrad Murray covering up evidence and lying about what really happened?
Police are now saying that Murray, after administering that final dose of the powerful sedative Propofol to Michael, most likely left him alone for approximately 73 minutes, and not the two minutes he has claimed.
Let’s have a look at what we know about the timeline:
10.50am: Murray administers Propofol to Michael, then leaves him alone to go to the bathroom.
At some point, Murray returns to Michael’s room and finds him not breathing. He begins CPR. Murray claims he left Michael alone for 2 minutes.
11:54am: Murray leaves a voicemail for another patient, Bob Russell. In the voicemail, Murray sounds calm and collected.
12.00pm: It has been reported that Murray made another call, this time to his girlfriend in Houston shortly after noon, but this call has not been confirmed as yet.
12:21pm: Murray calls 911
Given the discrepancies in the timeline, it is now being said that Dr. Conrad Murray may have hidden and tried to cover up the means by which Michael died.
Let’s have a look at what is said to have happened:
Michael received his final, fatal dose of Propofol through an IV in his leg, and Murray told police he only administered 2.5ml, which is a very small amount.
But Dr. John Dombrowski, a noted anesthesiologist who reviewed the LAPD file for detectives, has stated that 2.5ml would not be enough to even put someone to sleep, let alone kill them.
The autopsy report, however, notes the level of Propofol found in Michael was equivalent to what is found in “general anesthesia for major surgery.”
A small, empty, 20 ml bottle of Propofol was found in the bedroom, but a secret compartment was found in a nearby closet which contained numerous bottles of Propofol.
Amongst them, a large, empty, 100ml bottle with a large tear in the rubber stopper was found. A tear in the stopper is made in order to connect an entire bottle of Propofol to an IV.
If this is done, the doctor must use an infusion pump to regulate the flow of Propofol, in order to prevent the patient from overdosing. There was no infusion pump found.
The police believe Dr. Murray may have used the 100ml bottle, then either tried regulating the flow either by just watching it, or letting it flow by itself.
Either way, Dr. Murray admitted to leaving Michael unattended by going to the bathroom at some point.
If Dr. Murray did indeed put the full 100ml bottle into Michael’s bloodstream, that would be 40 times more Propofol than he told authorities he administered.
Murray is due to return to court on April 5 for a preliminary hearing which will reveal for the first time the evidence the prosecution believes will demonstrate how his “gross negligence” was the direct cause of the Michael’s death. If convicted, he could face up to four years in prison.
Here are the court papers outlining the complaint against Murray: Dr. Conrad Murray complaint court papers
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listen to the voice mail he sent to a person - when mike was there - in what ever state
http://www.tmz.com/2010/02/16/conrad-mu ... -911-lapd/ (http://www.tmz.com/2010/02/16/conrad-murrays-voicemail-michael-jackson-911-lapd/)
News of the World published the voicemail, in which Dr. Murray informed Bob Russell about his heart scan.
Dr. Murray left the voicemail at 11:54 AM.
TMZ broke the true timeline story -- that Dr. Murray called his girlfriend from Houston at 12:03 PM the day Jackson died -- 9 minutes after he left the voicemail for Russell.
Sources tell TMZ the girlfriend told cops ... approximately 5 minutes into the call, Dr. Murray abruptly dropped the phone and she then heard him administering CPR. Dr. Murray never came back to the phone and the call ended at 12:13 PM.
Jackson's bodyguard called 911 at 12:21 PM, approximately 13 minutes after Dr. Murray dropped the phone.
Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2010/02/16/conrad-mu ... z0k8Z12d01 (http://www.tmz.com/2010/02/16/conrad-murrays-voicemail-michael-jackson-911-lapd/#ixzz0k8Z12d01)
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@ the arabian nights: I'd really like to know why you ignore my replies time after time, and then jump to another topic.
well i was speaking from memory, maybe from another source
Correct, another source. That's exactly what I mean. Sources sources sources...many unnamed sources, sources 'close to the family', sources 'close to the DA', sources 'close to the defense team', sources 'close to the LAPD'. Yet NOT ONCE one of these 'sources' stepped forward and identified himself.
TRIAL BY MEDIA is a phrase popular in the late 20th century and early 21st century to describe the impact of television and newspaper coverage on a person's reputation by creating a widespread perception of guilt regardless of any verdict in a court of law.
Didn't we learn from Mike's trial..? Why are people jumping to conclusions now, just based on 'information' provided by 'unnamed sources'? HIStory is repeating itself...
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well i was speaking from memory, maybe from another source
Correct, another source. That's exactly what I mean. Sources sources sources...many unnamed sources, sources 'close to the family', sources 'close to the DA', sources 'close to the defense team', sources 'close to the LAPD'. Yet NOT ONCE one of these 'sources' stepped forward and identified himself.
TRIAL BY MEDIA is a phrase popular in the late 20th century and early 21st century to describe the impact of television and newspaper coverage on a person's reputation by creating a widespread perception of guilt regardless of any verdict in a court of law.
Didn't we learn from Mike's trial..? Why are people jumping to conclusions now, just based on 'information' provided by 'unnamed sources'? HIStory is repeating itself...
You're absolutely right about that Mo. A lot of 'sources' are just not reliable, but their message will linger on in people's minds to a point where facts are not seperated from fiction.
I would like to bring the following to everybody's attention. It's an open-source interactive schematic overview of everything concerning the MJ Death Investigation. It can serve as an aid to look up and note down sources and facts, but also to debate scenario's and arguments for and against with others:
Michael Jackson Death Investigation @ Debategraph (http://debategraph.org/Stream.aspx?mid=1504)
Everybody is welcome to contribute
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@ the arabian nights: I'd really like to know why you ignore my replies time after time, and then jump to another topic.
well i was speaking from memory, maybe from another source
Correct, another source. That's exactly what I mean. Sources sources sources...many unnamed sources, sources 'close to the family', sources 'close to the DA', sources 'close to the defense team', sources 'close to the LAPD'. Yet NOT ONCE one of these 'sources' stepped forward and identified himself.
TRIAL BY MEDIA is a phrase popular in the late 20th century and early 21st century to describe the impact of television and newspaper coverage on a person's reputation by creating a widespread perception of guilt regardless of any verdict in a court of law.
Didn't we learn from Mike's trial..? Why are people jumping to conclusions now, just based on 'information' provided by 'unnamed sources'? HIStory is repeating itself...
sorry i am a bit busy today and cooking and going out - i think the topics today are interesting and i want to contribute but time short with things and pp - if you know what i mean - will get back to you
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"As one source said, Jackson liked the sensation of Propofol being administered by IV, adding, "Michael liked to push it."
LOOOLLL
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Yes Michael Joe Jackson kill Michael Joseph Jackson and huh
did you vote? WTH is that? :lol:
stop beLIEving the MEDIA LIE commmmmmmmmmme onnnnnnnn !
Just because you read it in a magazine Or see it on the TV screen Don't make it factual See, but everybody wants to beLIEve all about it
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unny how Harve let's the public rate his articles :lol:
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perhaps what this means is......THE SINGER MICHEAL JACKSON IS DEAD....but actually MICHEAL the person IS ALIVE .....if you get me...!!!!!
That would make, what Tito said in the last episode of the Dynasty series ring true. He said something to the affect that if we could have Michael back, he wouldn't have to sing another note, as long as we could have him back.
But...as much as MJ loves the stage and music, would he really retire and never perform again? I can't see it, but I guess it's possible.
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UNBELIEVABLE!!! So it just so happens Murray has decided one day before the trial he is going to say Michael killed himself.
When we have this statement here...
Dr. Murray, who could face up to four years in prison if convicted, acknowledged on Feb. 8 giving the anesthetic propofol to Jackson following the singer's "repeated demands and requests" for the drug
Nothing like 8 months later huh Murray!!! Then we had last week that he was alive at the hospital. These people are so screwed their stories all all BS
Michael Jackson's doctor to argue singer killed himself - report
LINK: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaki ... 5849660881 (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/michael-jacksons-doctor-to-argue-singer-killed-himself-report/story-e6frf7k6-1225849660881)
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After all he had lived he kill himself because he could not sleep .. well, though here is no joke lol !!
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[b]So Michael woke up, and injected the prop. into the I.V.?[/b]where was the I.V.? In hand, which hand? In arm, which arm? Michael was very right handed, remember! It is not all that easy to perform this procedure by oneself. In the beginning of this hoax it was said Murray would go free, because he might have been in on the hoax. This is the best way to get him free. Still, no doctor should leave such medicine and needles near the patient.
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Indeed, he loved life. He is not dead people.
This is a play, he will return within 2-3 years.
I believe in it.
Michael owes money to the people
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Ain’t the pictures enough, why do you go through so much
To get the story you need, so you can bury me
You’ve got the people confused, you tell the stories you choose
You try to get me to lose the man I really am
You keep on stalking me, invading my privacy
won’t you just let me be
‘cause you cameras can’t control, the minds of those who know
That you’ll even sell your soul just to get a story sold
Now there’s a lesson to learn, stories are twisted and turned
Stop maliciously attacking my integrity
-Privacy- Michael Jackson
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This is so CRAZY....BS! :D
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He has too much to live for to even think about doing that. He was making plans and commitments. Someone that wants to die does not make plans.
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love this song.. perfect for this situation.. :mrgreen:
Ain’t the pictures enough, why do you go through so much
To get the story you need, so you can bury me
You’ve got the people confused, you tell the stories you choose
You try to get me to lose the man I really am
You keep on stalking me, invading my privacy
won’t you just let me be
‘cause you cameras can’t control, the minds of those who know
That you’ll even sell your soul just to get a story sold
Now there’s a lesson to learn, stories are twisted and turned
Stop maliciously attacking my integrity
-Privacy- Michael Jackson
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Murray goes to the bathroom decides to call his girlfriend while in the bathroom. At the sametime Michael suddenly awakes from the anesthesia, manages to put aside all the grogginess, realize that Murray is missing doesn't call for murray he takes matter into his own hands, finds the propofol and the needle. He's able to inject himself all in a span of 2 mintues. Wow Michael was dam near superman. How dumb do they think we are?
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Well, first of all they will have to PROVE Michael was a Propofol addict! How will they do that? Then they will have to take the damned propofol bottle and syringe and verify if MJ's fingerprints are there. Maybe he did touch the bottle and syringe, but that doesn't prove he committed suicide, either. Anyways, this story is crazy. He grabs the bottle, fills the needle and injects it on his system err while sitting I suppose (he had the IV on his leg, right?), and DIES in precisely the two minutes that Murray leaves to the bathroom? Now thats what I call bad luck and timing...
Edit**AvaMarie...same line of thoughts, didnt see your comment :)
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[b]So Michael woke up, and injected the prop. into the I.V.?[/b]where was the I.V.? In hand, which hand? In arm, which arm? Michael was very right handed, remember! It is not all that easy to perform this procedure by oneself. In the beginning of this hoax it was said Murray would go free, because he might have been in on the hoax. This is the best way to get him free. Still, no doctor should leave such medicine and needles near the patient.
The IV was in the left leg. (supposedly) Also..
COULD THE DECEDENT HAVE GIVEN PROPOFOL TO HIMSELF?
It is unknown where the Propofol physically came from.It would have been difficult for the patient to administer the drugs(others besides Propofol were administered) to himself,given the configuration of the IV set up. The IV catheter was in the left leg.The injection portof the IV tubing was 13.5 cm from the tip in the catheter.He would have had to bend his knee sharply or sit up to reach the injection port and push the syringe barrel,an awkward situation,especially if sleep was the goal.If only bolus injections via a syringe were used,sleep woul have not been mantained,due to the short action of Propofol.Someone with medical knowledgeor experience would have started the IV.Anyone could have drawn up and administered the medication after the IV was started.
Selma Calmes MD
Anesthesiology Consultant
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What's funny is, there's no mention of this on CNN or any major news channel or site. TMZ again...hmm, how do they know what the defense it going to say BEFORE the actual trial? Are they BFF's with CM & his lawyers now or something? In fact, I haven't heard or read anything from anywhere BUT TMZ regarding MJ & CM's trial in a LONG time :roll:
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:lol:
BS!
:mrgreen:
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According to this: http://manuelsweb.com/propofol.htm (http://manuelsweb.com/propofol.htm) it's not possible to get an overdose from 20ml with his weight ;) Edit: 17,5 ml, he already had 2,5ml.
When will people see that those stories are BS? This can't go to trial, the DA would make a fool out of himself with the 20ml propofol.
Besides that, propofol works VERY quick, I wonder if someone would be able to administer 20ml himself... Does anyone know?
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What means BS?
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BULLSHIT.......I.E........ RUBBISH,NONSENSE,.......O.K. XXXX
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Don't know why but when I saw the title I couldn't prevent from smiling...the picture of Michael next to the article is well chosen.
This story is definitely false of course.
"- At around noon, Dr. Murray left the room for approximately two minutes to go to the bathroom. While he was gone, the defense believes Jackson suddenly awakened and was frustrated he had spent nearly 9 hours trying in vain to sleep. The defense theory -- Jackson took the 20 ml bottle of Propofol and self-injected the remaining contents through the IV, causing a massive overdose that stopped his heart.
Read more: http://www.tmz.com/category/michael-jac ... z0k9T6WezZ (http://www.tmz.com/category/michael-jackson/#ixzz0k9T6WezZ)
You cannot built a defense based on beliefs and theories...seriously.
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Don't know why but when I saw the title I couldn't prevent from smiling...the picture of Michael next to the article is well chosen.
This story is definitely false of course.
"- At around noon, Dr. Murray left the room for approximately two minutes to go to the bathroom. While he was gone, the defense believes Jackson suddenly awakened and was frustrated he had spent nearly 9 hours trying in vain to sleep. The defense theory -- Jackson took the 20 ml bottle of Propofol and self-injected the remaining contents through the IV, causing a massive overdose that stopped his heart.
Read more: http://www.tmz.com/category/michael-jac ... z0k9T6WezZ (http://www.tmz.com/category/michael-jackson/#ixzz0k9T6WezZ)
You cannot built a defense based on beliefs and theories...seriously.
You are so right. There is NO proof or evidence of it
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Funny defense! It's quite obvious they are redirecting the attention, deliberately creating turbulence and blur. Turbulence and blur are in their favor (they think) as it causes delay. However, they can not back their theory and beliefs with facts. A fact is that CM has admitted he administered Propofol. Also a fact is that he has done that in an inappropriate setting, regardless the amount he has administered.
If I admit I have stolen an egg for someone and in my defense I claim the one I made it possible for to steal eggs, stole two eggs himself, does that make my theft less criminal? (Sorry for using eggs as an example, but my life is about eggs today :mrgreen: )
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What means BS?
means bullshit :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: ;) :oops:
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i will not believe this bs story never what madness is going on with all the contradictions no one can keep to a believeable story which is good for us ;)
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LOOOL more bs do you think we were born yesterday? :lol: he liked to push hard if your going to lie at least make it believable and funny that tmz is always first to know everything
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we are reliant on the television, radio, newspaper -paper and online and YT
but i dont think that this is mikes message
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A fact is that CM has admitted he administered Propofol. Also a fact is that he has done that in an inappropriate setting, regardless the amount he has administered.
Show me the footage in which he said that please?
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good but the evidence, where ... that syringe according to media reports they are going to auction .... :lol: :lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=7291&start=0 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=7291&start=0)
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Sorry to post again but I find it VERY amusing that TMZ are the only people reporting on MJ/CM anymore. It's like everyone else forgot about it. Also, I've never known any other high profile death that was covered solely by TMZ. & when other news channels/sites do report they credit TMZ as their source. When did TMZ become so trustworthy, lol. & since when do we need to rely on a GOSSIP MAG for information? It's crazy. Harvey must be good friends with Murray's lawyers (which is possible) because he always knows more about Murray than anyone & he knows what's going on with the case & the trial probably even before Murray does! LOL :lol:
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tomorrow is the next step and its so silent out there, i know its easter, but still, this should be big news, but the family, associates and friends are silent
remember the arraignment - butt end of the news
you have the justice crew but without the family they have no teeth
the estate i dont think even showed
what up here - what are we not seeing
hey guys is it the case that oxman or pap joe has issued the civil case - why now why not wait til after the criminal proceedings, is it because they know that cm will cut a deal and the evidence will be shut down and untested?
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tomorrow is the next step and its so silent out there, i know its easter, but still, this should be big news, but the family, associates and friends are silent
remember the arraignment - butt end of the news
you have the justice crew but without the family they have no teeth
the estate i dont think even showed
what up here - what are we not seeing
The family should be speaking BUT it's probably better that they don't, considering....well, they've been talking a little too much since June 25th, I mean they can't even keep up with themselves anymore. Plus, I think they'd just end up contradicting each other, which wouldn't be very helpful. Don't get me wrong though, I'm not bad mouthing them, I don't have a problem with most of them. Just saying it's probably wise to keep quiet. Plus if the court date tomorrow IS just a preliminary hearing, they don't need to say anything or be seen. They don't even need to say anything during the trial either. Latoya or Jermaine or Joe might slip & say something that could help the defense.
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the family need a spokesperson - who wants the job
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the family need a spokesperson - who wants the job
In MJ's voice from the Bashir Doc. at the ice scream stand "OOH ME! ME! ME! PICK ME!" :lol: :mrgreen:
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Well, technically, if he hoaxed his death, that would be "killing himself". Get it? He killed himself by hoaxing his death.
could be...
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no i fear an aweful reality check - where pictures of mikes body will be shown in court and theyre splashed every where, the needle marks, the real death pictures
we wanted it and i fear we will get it - the final proof
i dont want this but it maybe just what we will get.
You may be right with that. People should prepare themselves emotionally for the worst right now.
Deep breath people.... open mind is required when waiting for the truth to reveal itself. ;)
Calm calm :roll:
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no i fear an aweful reality check - where pictures of mikes body will be shown in court and theyre splashed every where, the needle marks, the real death pictures
we wanted it and i fear we will get it - the final proof
i dont want this but it maybe just what we will get.
You may be right with that. People should prepare themselves emotionally for the worst right now.
Deep breath people.... open mind is required when waiting for the truth to reveal itself. ;)
Calm calm :roll:
How would we even know it's legit? I guess we should all have it in our minds that we might see or hear things that we won't want to or that will be hard but we should also keep an open mind & remember all the BS that brought us here in the first place & all the BS that keeps bringing us back.
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Besides that, propofol works VERY quick, I wonder if someone would be able to administer 20ml himself... Does anyone know?
:roll: Probably if he squeezed the sh** outta the bag.
But somebody please help me clear this up.
Wasn't Murray on the phone while he was doing one-handed CPR?
So he dropped it, then picked it up?
Sorry if I'm incorrect.
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Oh, so many stories....
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these stories would make a lovely.......BEDTIME STORIES .....book........especially for insomniacs....lol....i would soon nod off.......xxxxx
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these stories would make a lovely.......BEDTIME STORIES .....book........especially for insomniacs....lol....i would soon nod off.......xxxxx
No need for propofol amirite? ;)
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tomorrow is the next step and its so silent out there, i know its easter, but still, this should be big news, but the family, associates and friends are silent
remember the arraignment - butt end of the news
you have the justice crew but without the family they have no teeth
the estate i dont think even showed
what up here - what are we not seeing
hey guys is it the case that oxman or pap joe has issued the civil case - why now why not wait til after the criminal proceedings, is it because they know that cm will cut a deal and the evidence will be shut down and untested?
To my knowledge, according to Californian law a wrongful death lawsuit needs to be filed within one year after the death of the person it concerns. Also, this needs to be announced 90 days in advance.
This is also why they needed the medical records -to file the lawsuit-. Remarkably, the MJ Estate refused to have the family see the medical records due to 'privacy concerns': Joe had to go to court to obtain them. So in a way, the MJ Estate hindered the family's wrongful death lawsuit
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he
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tomorrow is the next step and its so silent out there, i know its easter, but still, this should be big news, but the family, associates and friends are silent
remember the arraignment - butt end of the news
you have the justice crew but without the family they have no teeth
the estate i dont think even showed
what up here - what are we not seeing
hey guys is it the case that oxman or pap joe has issued the civil case - why now why not wait til after the criminal proceedings, is it because they know that cm will cut a deal and the evidence will be shut down and untested?
To my knowledge, according to Californian law a wrongful death lawsuit needs to be filed within one year after the death of the person it concerns. Also, this needs to be announced 90 days in advance.
This is also why they needed the medical records -to file the lawsuit-. Remarkably, the MJ Estate refused to have the family see the medical records due to 'privacy concerns': Joe had to go to court to obtain them. So in a way, the MJ Estate hindered the family's wrongful death lawsuit
thanks raven - for that - and drawing the information together
yes it is strange about the estate - the estate is to work for the benefit of the beneficiaries - but seem to working for the benefit of the lawyers and their %
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Oh Yeah...As if TMZ is in 24X7 correspondence with the Murray team?
I still dont understand that WHY non believers arent arent getting it....HAHAHAHA!
Before CNN, FOX, SKY...TMZ is the first choice of Murray and the Jacksons when it comes to disclosing details of the case....
Why arent the NEWS CHANNELS perplexed yet? HAHAHAHAHA!!!!
OMFG!! This is sooo funny..... :lol: :lol:
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Conrad Murray alluded to this theory months ago. We knew he was going to try to use it, didn't we, no matter how improbable it seems? The theory for death hoax that goes over with the least complication is suicide. No one else is implicated and no one goes to jail fraudulently. No taxpayer money is wasted because there are no accomplices. After they finish reading all their discovery info which will more than likely be turned over tomorrow causing nothing to happen on 4/5/2010, they will probably come to a unanimous decision that there is no case against Murray to bring to trial. And so, the band plays on.
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I KNEW this was going to be the defense.. there was no other argument that Murray could make.
Remember this video that was leaked a few days ago?? Out of no-where, this unseen footage of the Bashir interview emerges....
What sticks out to you now??
IN THIS NEW, LEAKED FOOTAGE - MICHAEL TALKS ABOUT HOW HE CANT SLEEP WITHOUT LIGHTS ON HIM - LIKE HE IS ON STAGE
Now look at the video in the light of this TMZ article.. it says MJ cant sleep without lights on and cartoons blaring...
ALL THESE "UNSEEN" VIDEOS THAT ARE BEING LEAKED ARE BEING LEAKED FOR A REASON.
We never see the videos we WANT to see - like the Tatiana kiss... leaks are happening for a reason!!!
[youtube:2zcnzzr5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xCKixAtO5M&feature=player_embedded[/youtube:2zcnzzr5]
Can you see what is happening here????
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i got the impression from that tape - (bashir helping again - because we have not seen maury's version)
that mike was taking the michael
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tell us in simple words....some of us struggle to make sense of all this........thanks...xx
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tell us in simple words....some of us struggle to make sense of all this........thanks...xx
who are you talking to? x
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hum time change again
Dr. Murray's Defense - Jackson Killed Himself
Posted Apr 4th 2010 3:00PM by TMZ Staff
Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0kAEUESAb (http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0kAEUESAb)
and a reply from Joe Jackson
Joe Jackson 'Horrified' at Dr. Murray Defense
Posted Apr 4th 2010 2:55PM by TMZ Staff
Michael Jackson's father says he is "horrified" by the prospect Dr. Conrad Murray's legal team will argue that Michael Jackson accidentally killed himself by pumping a lethal dose of Propofol into his body.
TMZ broke the story that the defense believes Jackson woke up shortly before noon on the day he died, when Dr. Conrad Murray stepped out of the room, and injected enough Propofol in himself to almost immediately stop his heart.
Joe Jackson tells TMZ, "I don't believe it. It's not true. Why would he [Dr. Murray] hide all the bottles if such a story were true?"
Joe Jackson added, "The Coroner's report shows the story is not true," adding, "This really upsets me to hear this."
Joe Jackson plans to file a wrongful death lawsuit against Dr. Murray. While Joe Jackson's lawyer, Brian Oxman, says, "His [Dr. Murray's] story is medically inconsistent with the autopsy findings, he says before knowing for sure, "I would need to see the photographs of the scene in order to assess his story
Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0kAEYKrId (http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0kAEYKrId)
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sorry.....dancingthedream.......who asked....can you see what is going on here..???
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so was it cm who went back in those missing hours and stole the tapes?
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tell us in simple words....some of us struggle to make sense of all this........thanks...xx
Someone is leaking these vidoes to help Murray in his defense... because in the leaked video, Michael has confirmed in his own words that he cant sleep without lights on him.
And now Murray is saying in his defence, that Michael said he liked activity in his room.. so thats why he had the lights on and cartoons blaring.. and that Murray spoke on his phone whilst in the room whilst Michael was trying to sleep. (so explains the phonecalls away)
And days before this statement is released from Murray.. this unseen footage pops up with Michael saying he cant sleep unless he has lights focused on him, like he is on a stage.
These leaks are not co-incidences.
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omg...i see now......who the hell is doing this >>????.........do you know..???
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tell us in simple words....some of us struggle to make sense of all this........thanks...xx
Someone is leaking these vidoes to help Murray in his defense... because in the leaked video, Michael has confirmed in his own words that he cant sleep without lights on him.
And now Murray is saying in his defence, that Michael said he liked activity in his room.. so thats why he had the lights on and cartoons blaring.. and that Murray spoke on his phone whilst in the room whilst Michael was trying to sleep. (so explains the phonecalls away)
And days before this statement is released from Murray.. this unseen footage pops up with Michael saying he cant sleep unless he has lights focused on him, like he is on a stage.
These leaks are not co-incidences.
or maybe it can also work for the opposite scenario: someone is leaking these videos to make Murray's story and the whole story more credible to the public for them to believe in all of this craziness...
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omg...i see now......who the hell is doing this >>????.........do you know..???
but mike had his own camera's running at the same time and maury (spelling?) did a show, showing the context of the living with mj footage
so there must be mj footage also
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This is a defense tactic. The defense does not have to PROVE anything. The prosecutors have the burden of proof. The defense's only job is to show that there is a reasonable doubt. They will suggest that it's POSSIBLE that MJ could have killed himself, and if the jury believes that it's POSSIBLE, then that is enough reasonable doubt for them not to convict.
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omg...i see now......who the hell is doing this >>????.........do you know..???
but mike had his own camera's running at the same time and maury (spelling?) did a show, showing the context of the living with mj footage
so there must be mj footage also
The videao seems to be MJ footage done by his cameraman (according to the description on YT), the same cameraman that made other parts of the private footage for MJ, not the official one
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Randy was present
Family lawyer Brian Oxman said the star collapsed at his rented home in LA’s Holmby Hills area while brother Randy was present.
Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sh ... z0kAIHSNkx (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/bizarre/2501914/Michael-Jacksons-last-moments.html#ixzz0kAIHSNkx)
[/i]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By PETE SAMSON
US Editor and
NICK PARKER
Chief Foreign Correspondent
Published: 26 Jun 2009
Add a comment (55)
PARAMEDICS dashed to dying Michael Jackson’s side after a panic-stricken phone call from the superstar’s Los Angeles home.
The dramatic call was made by a member of staff last night at just after 8pm UK time.
Listen to the emergency call below.
Fire Department medics responded to the alert and arrived to find the 50-year-old singer collapsed and not breathing. He had suffered a cardiac arrest.
The emergency staff rushed him to hospital in their vehicle, where a computer screen revealed chilling details of his condition.
A record of the call-out read: “50 year old male Not breathing at all.” It gave the time of the call-out as 12.21pm local time.
Medics administered heart massage and oxygen along the route. But they could not revive the star.
mother's pain ... Katherine
Merino/X17online.com
Jacko’s family were informed and rushed to his bedside as weeping fans began massing outside the city’s UCLA Medical Centre.
There were screams of “You’ve got to save him, you’ve got to save him” as the star was stretchered in.
Mum Katherine made it to the hospital shortly after her son, although his father Joe was in Las Vegas when told the news. Close pal Elizabeth Taylor also rushed to the hospital to say her goodbyes.
Finally a doctor appeared and told shocked relatives and aides that all efforts to restart his heart had failed and that he had died.
Sister La Toya was seen running into the hospital sobbing after her brother was pronounced dead.
Los Angeles County Coroner Fred Corell last night confirmed that Jackson had died of heart failure at 2.26pm local time.
Last night it was suspected his collapse could have been caused by an overdose of painkillers.
An Emergency Room source at UCLA hospital said Jackson aides told medics he had collapsed after an injection of potent Demerol — similar to morphine.
A Jacko source said: “Shortly after taking the Demerol he started to experience slow shallow breathing.
“His breathing gradually got slower and slower until it stopped.
“His staff started mouth-to-mouth and an ambulance was called which got there in eight minutes “But found he was in full respiratory arrest, no breathing and no pulse. They started full CPR and rushed him to hospital.
Battle to save Jacko ... paramedics wheel stricken superstar into hospital on stretcher last night
X17online.com“When he arrived they started resuscitation, giving him heart shocks and inserted a breathing tube and other supportive measures to try and save his life.
“He never regained consciousness.The family was told that he had passed.”
As news spread of Jackson’s death, thousands of fans gathered outside the hospital.
Many were dressed in the eccentric singer’s trademark costumes and others blasted out his smash-hit tunes.
Family lawyer Brian Oxman said the star collapsed at his rented home in LA’s Holmby Hills area while brother Randy was present.
Los Angeles City Fire Department confirmed the emergency call was made from Jackson’s home.
“The call came in because a person was not breathing,” said a spokesman.
Distraught ... sobbing La Toya arrives too late
XPOSUREPHOTOS“When the team arrived, they saw that CPR was already in progress by someone at the home.
“The person not breathing was transported to UCLA Medical Centre.”
Other stunned family members said that Jackson, who was due to begin a series of comeback concerts at London’s O2 arena next month, “was in really bad shape”.
The singer had been staying at the LA house while he rehearsed for his comeback tour.
More than 750,000 tickets had been sold for the former King of Pop’s “This is It” concerts.
The opening dates were postponed last month after concert promoters AIG said Jackson needed more time to rehearse the complex dance routines.
But after The Sun revealed that he was suffering from skin cancer there were fears that he was not fit enough to complete the tour.
Experts found spots of skin cancer on his upper body and pre-cancerous cells on his face.
Jacko’s close pal Uri Geller was “too upset for words” last night.
He said: “The whole world is absolutely devastated and I am lost for words because everyone expected him to come to England to do his concerts.
“He was in good health. He was rehearsing, dancing, practising for the shows in England and I am shocked, that is all I can say.”
Jacko had been blighted by a string of past health problems — including rumoured heart trouble.
But he had vowed to perform his £150million comeback gigs.
He is survived by three children: Michael Joseph Jackson, Jr, Paris Michael Katherine Jackson and Prince “Blanket” Michael Jackson II.
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Complete rubbish :lol: . MJ Lives! 8-)
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omg...i see now......who the hell is doing this >>????.........do you know..???
but mike had his own camera's running at the same time and maury (spelling?) did a show, showing the context of the living with mj footage
so there must be mj footage also
The videao seems to be MJ footage done by his cameraman (according to the description on YT), the same cameraman that made other parts of the private footage for MJ, not the official one
i thought i read somewhere that the curtains were drawn - imagination - i suppose
is there any more footage if its the maury stuff
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hum time change again
Dr. Murray's Defense - Jackson Killed Himself
Posted Apr 4th 2010 3:00PM by TMZ Staff
04/04/2010 3:00
77?
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The leaked video i have posted is Michaels footage.. its from the rebuttal vidoe he made to bashirs documentary - but the vidoe i have posted was never released... until a few days ago...
SO.. someone in Michaels camp is leaking this stuff.
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hum time change again
Dr. Murray's Defense - Jackson Killed Himself
Posted Apr 4th 2010 3:00PM by TMZ Staff
04/04/2010 3:00
77?
I think the purpose of the changing time on TMZ is they want this news to be the first for long time or at least on the first page when you click on tmz.com, to more people know about it, in my opinion it's just that simple, but who knows?... ;)
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http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/story/did-jackson-kill-himself-with-deadly-shot-of-demerol_1112139
07 August 2009 01:36....
Did Jackson Kill Himself With Deadly Shot Of Demerol?
MICHAEL JACKSON may have accidentally killed himself - after waking on the night before he died and injecting himself with a deadly anaesthetic.
New reports suggest the King of Pop woke alone in his bedroom and couldn't find his personal physician Dr. Conrad Murray.
In a bid to get back to sleep, the troubled singerinjected himself with a deadly shot of Demerol, according to U.S. news show Entertainment Tonight.
A source tells the show, "Michael may have awakened from his induced sleep sometime in the middle of the night - and with no one around to help him - injected himself with a deadly shot of Demerol."
The show's investigative reporter Diane Dimond, who has been leading the way with Jackson scoops since his death, says, "Once the toxicology report is released we'll finally have answers."
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The leaked video i have posted is Michaels footage.. its from the rebuttal vidoe he made to bashirs documentary - but the vidoe i have posted was never released... until a few days ago...
SO.. someone in Michaels camp is leaking this stuff.
Of course because Murray has not killed Michael and must not go to jail. So this can maybe help the defense to introduce this reasonable doubt...
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Well who owns copyright to those leaked tapes...as they were Michael's, copyright is now likely owned by the MJ Estate.
Why would they leak video's in Murray's advantage and hinder the family's wrongful death suit?
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hum time change again
Dr. Murray's Defense - Jackson Killed Himself
Posted Apr 4th 2010 3:00PM by TMZ Staff
04/04/2010 3:00
77?
I think the purpose of the changing time on TMZ is they want this news to be the first for long time or at least on the first page when you click on tmz.com, to more people know about it, in my opinion it's just that simple, but who knows?... ;)
that makes sense :) i wish they'd just put 4pm tho then the 444 clue still remains. :D
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Calm down people. As I posted at "Does Anyone go To Forest Laws 04/03" my yesterday trip to Forest lawn and conversation with french woman who stated TMZ is the source in France and TMZ most likely is with Jacksons. Now, if we base on this, then this must be only way to avoid conviction of Murrey as it was planned as part of hoax. Woman believes that Murrey speaks for Michael. Meaning, this idea came from Jacksons.
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@scorpion...the family believes there was a murderplot against Michael and that Murray was responsible. They are even filing a wrongful death lawsuit against him. They are not pro-Murray...on the contrary
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[b]So Michael woke up, and injected the prop. into the I.V.?[/b]where was the I.V.? In hand, which hand? In arm, which arm? Michael was very right handed, remember! It is not all that easy to perform this procedure by oneself. In the beginning of this hoax it was said Murray would go free, because he might have been in on the hoax. This is the best way to get him free. Still, no doctor should leave such medicine and needles near the patient.
The IV was in the left leg. (supposedly) Also..
COULD THE DECEDENT HAVE GIVEN PROPOFOL TO HIMSELF?
It is unknown where the Propofol physically came from.It would have been difficult for the patient to administer the drugs(others besides Propofol were administered) to himself,given the configuration of the IV set up. The IV catheter was in the left leg.The injection portof the IV tubing was 13.5 cm from the tip in the catheter.He would have had to bend his knee sharply or sit up to reach the injection port and push the syringe barrel,an awkward situation,especially if sleep was the goal.If only bolus injections via a syringe were used,sleep woul have not been mantained,due to the short action of Propofol.Someone with medical knowledgeor experience would have started the IV.Anyone could have drawn up and administered the medication after the IV was started.
Selma Calmes MD
Anesthesiology Consultant
Thank you Selma for this professional information. Emily.
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tomorrow is the next step and its so silent out there, i know its easter, but still, this should be big news, but the family, associates and friends are silent
I agree. I wasn't expecting the family to come out and say anything as such but given most of the media spent their whole time following Michael you would expect something to be in the news.
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The truth is here somewhere... if only i could see it.. i feel blinded by all of this. Its like i cant see the wood for the trees.
We are so close to finding out the truth.... so close....
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@Raven
Then why Murrey just recalls that it might be Michael waked up and injected himself?
Will see whether he will be convicted or not. Family must support the hoax, we are talking too much about hoax :) in here and devil people most probably suspect it also. So , they have to support what they started. The only I don't like is that this means Michael is not planning to return or, if he returns, he will defend his family that they did not aware of hoax.
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Oh please TMZ, it's too ridiculous ;)
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Maybe the Jacksons aren't in on it & this video was leaked on purpose TO hinder their wrongful death suit. As a way to "shut them up". That way Murray won't be convicted & the Jacksons won't be able to file a wrongful death suit against him. Who knows, I don't see any other reason to release that footage, only the estate & MJ's people would have access to it. Interesting.
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Could they contradict themselves anymore? :roll: :lol:
The BS they expect people to believe. What do they take us for? :roll:
tabloid junkies. that's what. and who isn't won't eat the sh!t that's served by them. like this total made-up-bs-unbelievable-crap-story! injected himself, right...after a truckload of sedatives, he was still able to administer propofol to himself...bvahahahahaaahhh...
they're just tryin' to get murray off the hook by all possible and pathetic means and try to get a hung jury cuz nobody is gonna know what to believe anymore. and there are no other witnesses, so it will all be twisted and turned into a nice mess for everyone. murray is gonna debunk everything he ever said up to now into the contrary, that's my take. and he did already, creating a new timeline and (twice) a new dosage of what he administered. everybody is gonna go: 'd'ooohhh...i dunno anymore...' bah! git outta here!!!
i expect any official (hospital, lafd, whatever) to declare under oath that he has actually seen michael jackson dying or dead and can testify to that in this trial. that could be one of the ucla-doctors who worked on him, not no nurse or anything, best the doctor who pronounced him 'dead'. other than that, i will continue to refuse to believe that mike died.
everything else 'newsworthy' is to be disregarded for being tabloid junk.
:mrgreen:
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I wondered...if this was a real case (let s still hope it aint) wouldnt any of the prosecutors have asked for a gag order already? Cause there is no way MJ would ever get a fair trial with all those leaks. Knowing what his defence is gonna be b4 it starts and hearing Jose s reaction to it...the defence could immediately ask for the case to be dismissed cause no fair trial will ever happen..well i dont know....
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Could they contradict themselves anymore? :roll: :lol:
The BS they expect people to believe. What do they take us for? :roll:
tabloid junkies. that's what. and who isn't won't eat the sh!t that's served by them. like this total made-up-bs-unbelievable-crap-story! injected himself, right...after a truckload of sedatives, he was still able to administer propofol to himself...bvahahahahaaahhh...
they're just tryin' to get murray off the hook by all possible and pathetic means and try to get a hung jury cuz nobody is gonna know what to believe anymore. and there are no other witnesses, so it will all be twisted and turned into a nice mess for everyone. murray is gonna debunk everything he ever said up to now into the contrary, that's my take. and he did already, creating a new timeline and twice a new dosage of what he administered. everybody is gonna go: d'ooohhh...i dunno anymore...
bah! git outta here!!! :mrgreen:
Except.. if you think about it.. Dr Murray hasnt said anything.. nothing has come from his lips apart from that YouTube video... everything else has come from TMZ and "sources" and lawyers, etc.
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Yes but on the video Murray says "I told the truth" to whom ? Which truth ?
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omg...i see now......who the hell is doing this >>????.........do you know..???
who do you think? 8-)
:mrgreen:
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Could they contradict themselves anymore? :roll: :lol:
The BS they expect people to believe. What do they take us for? :roll:
tabloid junkies. that's what. and who isn't won't eat the sh!t that's served by them. like this total made-up-bs-unbelievable-crap-story! injected himself, right...after a truckload of sedatives, he was still able to administer propofol to himself...bvahahahahaaahhh...
they're just tryin' to get murray off the hook by all possible and pathetic means and try to get a hung jury cuz nobody is gonna know what to believe anymore. and there are no other witnesses, so it will all be twisted and turned into a nice mess for everyone. murray is gonna debunk everything he ever said up to now into the contrary, that's my take. and he did already, creating a new timeline and twice a new dosage of what he administered. everybody is gonna go: d'ooohhh...i dunno anymore...
bah! git outta here!!! :mrgreen:
Except.. if you think about it.. Dr Murray hasnt said anything.. nothing has come from his lips apart from that YouTube video... everything else has come from TMZ and "sources" and lawyers, etc.
exactly. it's all hearsay in the first place!
:mrgreen:
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I wondered...if this was a real case (let s still hope it aint) wouldnt any of the prosecutors have asked for a gag order already? Cause there is no way MJ would ever get a fair trial with all those leaks. Knowing what his defence is gonna be b4 it starts and hearing Jose s reaction to it...the defence could immediately ask for the case to be dismissed cause no fair trial will ever happen..well i dont know....
that is exactly what happened to michael during his own trial. including the whole legal apparatus in full swing and they had NO base for that. that was a joke, not a trial and it still became one, made out of thin air. just rumors, hearsay, speculation = presumed guilty. everybody had an opinion already before the thing even started. same smell here...just with the tables turned.
:mrgreen:
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I wondered...if this was a real case (let s still hope it aint) wouldnt any of the prosecutors have asked for a gag order already? Cause there is no way MJ would ever get a fair trial with all those leaks. Knowing what his defence is gonna be b4 it starts and hearing Jose s reaction to it...the defence could immediately ask for the case to be dismissed cause no fair trial will ever happen..well i dont know....
that is exactly what happened to michael during his own trial. including the whole legal apparatus in full swing and they had NO base for that. that was a joke, not a trial and it still became one, made out of thin air. just rumors, hearsay, speculation = presumed guilty. everybody had an opinion already before the thing even started. same smell here...just with the tables turned.
:mrgreen:
yep that s what i meant.. should ntthere be a gag order as it s a high profile case..but i dont remember who asked for it last time? Defendant? Dont know how that works...
talk about thin air...lol... i like it...no victim in 2005, no body in 2010...
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Okay, hold on lemme see if i can get all these inconsitencies correct. the Jackson family believe there was a murder plot against MJ but there are others involved but they can't talk about it b/c there is an ongoing investigation!? Janet was on Oprah stating nothing of this but only discussed the various interventions they had w/ MJ and how he was an addict. Yet no mention from Janet (who was at one time so close to him) about how the media rediculed him for years and ruined him even though he was VINDICATED and nearly killed him and his spirit?! Then Murray's defense says MJ was dead, oh wait, no he had a pulse at UCLA, and NOW they are claiming MJ administered propofol himself? are you effin kidding me?! I really wish the parties involved would get their stories straight.
Tomorrow is going to be an emotional day for us because we still don't know the truth! And the possibility that we may never makes me sick to my stomach :(
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The I.V. was found in his leg was it? What if he die with his eyes open because of this?
But, no, I believe if it happen this way, there WAS another person there that administer
the fatal amount.
This is sad to me. I also remember that weird midnight milk person saying Michael
was going to commit suicide, do you remember that?
And when he first "died", that mnm was saying he wasn't dead yet, and then
Jermaine messed up and said when he died BEFORE or something like that?
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So he went to the bathroom whilst talking to his gf on the phone?
So basically he would be saying that within these 2 minutes SOMEONE ELSE (since he didn't) administered the lethal dose of propofol, which he believes to be Michael. Why does he believe it to have been Michael?
If fingerprints were taken, it will become clear who touched the bottle and syringe, unless they were wearing gloves.
The following dramatic scenario would have been awful. I have hesitated to mention this since the beginning, since it involves the children. However one of the options to consider is that it could have been one of the elder children to 'help daddy sleep'. It would explain some cover-ups such as Kai Chase's contradicting story or Murray's urge to make them watch CPR and missing security tapes.
What if this is the reason Dr Murrays account isnt adding up and is changing? What if Murray is lying to protect someone else?? Well.. who else would he be prepared to lie for? Be prepared to go to jail for?? What if Murray is covering up for this reason.. because it was one of the children that administered the fatal dose on Michaels request?????
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IN THIS LAKED MATERIAL I HEAR THIS:
B: YOU FIND IT IMPOSIBLE TO NOT BE ON STAGE?
MJ: IT´S HARD
B: YOU DON´T REALLY LIVE YOUR LIFE OFF STAGE?
MJ: I´M ALWAYS... I LOVE IT... I TOLD YOU, I CAN´T SLEEP WITHOUT THE LIGHTS UP...
I´M NOT REMEMBER NOT BEING ON STAGE...
B:BUT IT HAS TO BE DAMAGING, ISN´T IT?
MJ: NO... I LOVE IT! WHEN I CLOSE MY EYES IS SO WARM... I CAN SEE THE AUDIENCE, I CAN SEE THE PERFORMERS...I CREATE!
B: YOU LIVE IN AN IMAGINARIE WORLD...
MJ: YEAH, I LOVE THAT!
;) HE WILL COME BACK SOON! :D
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i got the impression from that tape - (bashir helping again - because we have not seen maury's version)
that mike was taking the michael
I got this from the video as well.
Especially when you look at his eyes as he's talking.
So he went to the bathroom whilst talking to his gf on the phone?
So basically he would be saying that within these 2 minutes SOMEONE ELSE (since he didn't) administered the lethal dose of propofol, which he believes to be Michael. Why does he believe it to have been Michael?
If fingerprints were taken, it will become clear who touched the bottle and syringe, unless they were wearing gloves.
The following dramatic scenario would have been awful. I have hesitated to mention this since the beginning, since it involves the children. However one of the options to consider is that it could have been one of the elder children to 'help daddy sleep'. It would explain some cover-ups such as Kai Chase's contradicting story or Murray's urge to make them watch CPR and missing security tapes.
What if this is the reason Dr Murrays account isnt adding up and is changing? What if Murray is lying to protect someone else?? Well.. who else would he be prepared to lie for? Be prepared to go to jail for?? What if Murray is covering up for this reason.. because it was one of the children that administered the fatal dose on Michaels request?????
That's a thought too, but quite a sad one. :(
I'd almost prefer that Mike were murdered on purpose than to have it been an accident of one of his children...
But then again, how would one of the children know how to administer the medication?
And wouldn't Murray have heard or seen one of the kids go into the room?
Wouldn't someone have seen them?
Also, Randy was supposed to be there.
Where is he in all of this?
Was that report that Randy was there a lie?
If not, then he probably knows more about what happened that day.
But he isn't acting like all of this is a hoax or a joke....
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Calm down people. As I posted at "Does Anyone go To Forest Laws 04/03" my yesterday trip to Forest lawn and conversation with french woman who stated TMZ is the source in France and TMZ most likely is with Jacksons. Now, if we base on this, then this must be only way to avoid conviction of Murrey as it was planned as part of hoax. Woman believes that Murrey speaks for Michael. Meaning, this idea came from Jacksons.
I AGREE WITH U ,THIS IS NOTHING BUT HOAX,,, MJ KILLING HIMSELF IS NOTHING BUT HOAX HOAX HOAX HOAX.... :) THIS IS A CRAP NOTHING ELSE.. THIS IS COMPLETELY A PREMEDITATED HOAX NOTHING ELSE . THE JACKSONS , MURRAY ALL R HAND IN GLOVE IN THE HOAX.... TILL YESTERDAY I WAS DOUBTFUL ABOUT THE HOAX ,I MEAN IWAS KIND OF 50/50 BUT NOW IAM 100% SURE THAT THIS IS A HOAX HOAX HOAX.... I THINK THIS IS AN ONLY PLAN TO LET MURRAY FREE BY JACKSONS N DEFENSE.... N KEEP WATCHING TOMORROW THEY WILL SAY THAT THE WHOLE FAMILY WITNESSED MJ COLLAPSING ... IT IS NONE OTHER THEN THE FAMILY LEAKING THESE TAPES..... COME ON PEOPLE WAKE UP...
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tell us in simple words....some of us struggle to make sense of all this........thanks...xx
Someone is leaking these vidoes to help Murray in his defense... because in the leaked video, Michael has confirmed in his own words that he cant sleep without lights on him.
And now Murray is saying in his defence, that Michael said he liked activity in his room.. so thats why he had the lights on and cartoons blaring.. and that Murray spoke on his phone whilst in the room whilst Michael was trying to sleep. (so explains the phonecalls away)
And days before this statement is released from Murray.. this unseen footage pops up with Michael saying he cant sleep unless he has lights focused on him, like he is on a stage.
These leaks are not co-incidences.
No, leaks are not co-incidences all. I love how you strung this together, DancingTheDream. Very well done! :D Good observation on your part. God bless you for all the hard work and your insightful research. Thank you for your posting! :D
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You guys are talking about leaked videos that says things about Michael not being able to sleep without the aid of lights and noise. This is not new to me. I have known this all along, I have read it and I believe seen video long ago about it.
Specifically cartoons was playing in his room to help him sleep.
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tell us in simple words....some of us struggle to make sense of all this........thanks...xx
Someone is leaking these vidoes to help Murray in his defense... because in the leaked video, Michael has confirmed in his own words that he cant sleep without lights on him.
And now Murray is saying in his defence, that Michael said he liked activity in his room.. so thats why he had the lights on and cartoons blaring.. and that Murray spoke on his phone whilst in the room whilst Michael was trying to sleep. (so explains the phonecalls away)
And days before this statement is released from Murray.. this unseen footage pops up with Michael saying he cant sleep unless he has lights focused on him, like he is on a stage.
These leaks are not co-incidences.
No, leaks are not co-incidences all. I love how you strung this together, DancingTheDream. Very well done! :D Good observation on your part. God bless you for all the hard work and your insightful research. Thank you for your posting! :D
Ahh.. thanks.. it just immediately sprang to mind and made me think. I was suspicious about that video from the start because it came out of nowhere and for no specific reason. Has to be a reason.
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The truth is here somewhere... if only i could see it.. i feel blinded by all of this. Its like i cant see the wood for the trees.
We are so close to finding out the truth.... so close....
Yes indeed, the truth is right there but we havent yet figured it out. I often watch a tv documentary called "the first 48 hours" or something like that anyway (just cause I want to name it I cant remember, figures!! :lol: ). They always say that any true investigator knows that the clue to solving a crime is always there in the 1st 48 hours, but figuring it out can be a difficult task. So yes the evidence is already put out there, we just need to figure it out, that's all!! :lol: :?
I would also like to say that I dont believe for a minute that Michael, within the 2 minutes of CM's absence, injected himself. I give myself a daily injection for MS and when I am really tired and mentally exhausted I just skip it because I just cant focus to do it right. So I dont believe that someone just waking up from anesthesia can pull it together enough to reinject themselves some anesthetic to go back to sleep it is inconceivable to me. It would have had to be an emergency situation with adrenaline kicking in for someone under those conditions to be able to pull something like that off so quickly. IMO, but I'm no doctor so.... :?:
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If Murray was gone 2 minutes, and Michael injected himself, why would his eyes be open when Murray walked back in? Wouldn't his eyes be closed? And if sleep was your goal, why have cartoons blaring on TV?
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But how will Murray prove that, if MJ is (?) dead???? A dead person cannot testify against this accusation.........As always with L.O.V.E xox
(Sorry if someone else mentioned this)
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hahahahahaha lol hahaha, it is a possibility if we wouldn't have so many stories about it, but what is wrong with the time line it has been changed many times :lol: :lol: hehehe so now is suicided??? :?: :lol:
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ugggg. sometimes TMZ (which I think should be called The Media Zone) should just stop messing with us :x makes me wanna gag :!: ... but on the other hand, they are helping us, I think :roll:
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ugggg. sometimes TMZ (which I think should be called The Media Zone) should just stop messing with us :x makes me wanna gag :!: ... but on the other hand, they are helping us, I think :roll:
i refer them as ''The Michael Zone'' TMZ :P
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But how will Murray prove that, if MJ is (?) dead???? A dead person cannot testify against this accusation.........As always with L.O.V.E xox
(Sorry if someone else mentioned this)
A simple way would be to fingerprint the empty bottle of propofol that was left under the table. If its got MJs fingerprints on it, then that would prove at least that he picked it up at some point. Also.. if his fingerprints were on the syringe and plunger on the IV.
That empty bottle has made me think.. If Dr Murray did panick and started to hide the propofol bottles.. and he missed this one.. was this the reason he fessed up two days later?
But then why hide them.. we have been told Dr Murray returned to the house to retrieve the "special" cream.. why not take all the propofol out of the house at this point and dispose of it?
Nothing makes sense right now
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Medically this is BS.
Propofol or any anaesthetic works in less than 15 secs. If any one has gone under for any procedure - you are actually asked to count to 10 and you rarely reach 10. You get groggy by 5 or so.
So if Michael had to inject himself he could not have done so coherrently for more than 5 seconds. After which there would have been a spill / the syringe or bottle would have fallen down before it was fully injected. Even if Michael really pushed it, he would have gone into cardiac arrest with convulsions and his body would have been contorted and not just lying straight with his mouth and eyes agape.
A man cannot inject something that works that fast and lie back flat so that the Doc does not know what you did, all under two minutes.
Very, very good points, I totally agree... There is not way that he would be lying there body completly straight, and If I remember one report said his arms were laying out away from him. If he had self injected, I would think his body position would have been very different.
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Sorry to post again but I find it VERY amusing that TMZ are the only people reporting on MJ/CM anymore.
There is "no perfect crime" - or let's put it less dramatically:
everybody doing something will leave traces. Sometimes even patterns.
Unfortunately, TMZ are now caught in a cage of what they started and have to finish it no matter how. So is TIAI and so is TS. Either they continue in this game or they will lose strings and control. They have become somewhat predictable. ;)
I do not know what the reward for e.g. Harvey is. It cannot be sufficient to have the MJ die hard hoax believers click on his site. This is worth some $$ but would this be sufficient to continue the imaginatory stories about MJ?
Maybe he has a "nondisclosure exclusive publishing contract" in the drawers to be the first to report exclusively about MJ's return.
The only problem: nobody with a thinking brain does believe TMZ and Harvey and is laughing about them. The world will know that one of the worst tabloids on this planet claims the story. So even if MJ would return by TMZ, nobody will believe it - except those that swallow no matter what. Would that be the public that MJ would search? I cannot imagine.
Remember the Sony contract was published by AP press agency in New York.
Serious news don't bother about TMZ. ;)
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I KNEW this was going to be the defense.. there was no other argument that Murray could make.
Remember this video that was leaked a few days ago?? Out of no-where, this unseen footage of the Bashir interview emerges....
What sticks out to you now??
Thank you for mentioning. There are some new evolutions, indeed.
"The" string drawers are recently even taking care of the french speaking public.
I pointed that language barrier issue out once and it seems I got heard. LOL
(Hoax in french TV, now youtube leakage with french subtitles...)
Thanks to the "string team"! ;)
If there is a global project, some critical issue is to
1) get heard
2) get a message across
3) get understood.
A marketing strategy says AIDA (attention, interest, desire, action).
This can only be achieved when at least the language is understood.
There are several languages that are very important for a global project:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_language
Language Native speakers Total speakers
English 328 M 1800 M
Spanish (Castilian) 329 M 495 M
Russian 144 M 275 M
Portuguese 178 M 230 M
French 68 M 200 M
Other source:
The most commonly used language in the world is Mandarin.
Over one billion people speak Mandarin as their mother tongue.
The next most common languages are:
English 500 million
Hindustani 497 million
Spanish 390 million
Russian 280 million
Arabic 250 million
Bengali 210 million
Portugese 190 million
Malay-Indonesian 160 million
http://www.nocturne.ca/nn-worldlanguages.htm
Who of all these folks are important for an MJ project of any scope?
;)
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This is the best news ever for the hoax....
Really just need to read between the lines, as with everything else.
"Michael Jackson killed himself"....... well, he did didn't he?
By faking his death, he chose to "kill" himself.
It's really not that hard to understand.
The defense timeline and logic behind aspects of what happened are completely ridiculous.
There's no way this isn't a hoax. I couldn't be more convinced.
Also, we were waiting for something to happen on Easter right? A lot of us thought it would be a significant day. Well I think this is the clue we were waiting for.
If this were really the case and this was all real, they wouldn't wait until the day before trial to claim that Michael killed himself. That would be absurd.
Let the show continue....
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without a death, there can't be a resurrection.
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if this is a hoax then c.m will never be convicted n there would be no point of hoax if he is convicted ... well god n mj n his family only knows y he hoaxed his death.... what exactly he is trying to show us n prove us... mj if u r alive this is really enough ... :(
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For all those still thinking that the prop-of-fool could have been the reason for MJ's disappearance, I am reposting this.
I bet you will join me in laughing.
A cat can take a one-time injection of up to 8 mg / kg (translating in a total body weight of 25 kg / 55 lbs that could be injected with the content of a 20 ml ampule containing 10 mg/ml of the drug (=200 mg)).
A cat can take a constant infusion of 0.1 - 0.8 mg/kg/min (translating into a 5 or 40 mg infusion per minute given MJ's body weight of 117 lbs / 50 kg thus an infusion duration of 40 or 5 minutes.
So if MJ was first injected with 25 mg, this would have been sufficient for putting a kitten of 3.1 kg / 6.9 lbs. to sleep. Injection of the remaining 175 mg in one shot would have been sufficient to put a dog of 21.9 kg / 48.2 lbs to sleep.
MJ was reported to have weighed 50 lbs. / 117 kg.
The veterinarian dosage advice translates for me into this conclusion:
even one full bottle could not have been a letal dosis to a human being but put only a dog to sleep[/size] (to be confirmed by a phycisian).
We discussed Propofol many times - this is a veterinary point of view on dosage:
http://www.elephantcare.org/Drugs/propofol.htm (http://www.elephantcare.org/Drugs/propofol.htm)
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@ GRACE!!
I AM A BENGALI .....I KNOW THIS IS A HOAX!
I am referring to your language list..... ;)
I a mamong those 210 million people who speak bengali!
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Hi guys,
I just found this article on a German website:
http://www.viply.de/?p=35688 (http://www.viply.de/?p=35688)
Google translator:
(Hgm) Michael Jackson's "doctor death" Dr. Conrad Murray has now put his defense in court open. He claims that the King of Pop had killed himself! Dr. Michael Murray had given only a very small dose of propofol (25mg), which was only enough for 5 to 10 minutes of anesthesia. But the music star also took other drugs, which resulted in a prolongation of anesthesia.
The next hour the doctor would be spent on Michael's side. Around noon, he left the room for two minutes to go to the bathroom and just during that time was Michael woke up and had almost 20ml propofol self administered through a drip - a massive overdose. Dr. Murray said, Jackson found with open eyes and dilated pupils on the bed and started immediately with a cardio-pulmonary resuscitation to. But the amount of propofol, the heart of the musician would have been completely halted. Michael should have been for some time-dependent propofol. Whether this version of Dr. Murray is believed? Michael's family is still based on murder.
Now the defending Michael Jackson in court physician Dr. Murray Kaliforien. MJ would have killed himself.
1. It reads Michael was a propofol addicted. This is not true because you cannot be addicted of this kind kind of drug! :x
2. They found more than 45 ml in his system. The autopsy said it was the dosage for a "big surgery" (400 ml).
3. Besides, I read in another article hat Mike could neve have given himself the drug - he would have had to move and bent his knee to do so.
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But how will Murray prove that, if MJ is (?) dead???? A dead person cannot testify against this accusation.........As always with L.O.V.E xox
(Sorry if someone else mentioned this)
A simple way would be to fingerprint the empty bottle of propofol that was left under the table. If its got MJs fingerprints on it, then that would prove at least that he picked it up at some point. Also.. if his fingerprints were on the syringe and plunger on the IV.
That empty bottle has made me think.. If Dr Murray did panick and started to hide the propofol bottles.. and he missed this one.. was this the reason he fessed up two days later?
But then why hide them.. we have been told Dr Murray returned to the house to retrieve the "special" cream.. why not take all the propofol out of the house at this point and dispose of it?
Nothing makes sense right now
panic and trying to be too smart - he had to leave something - his get out of jail card
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If Murray was gone 2 minutes, and Michael injected himself, why would his eyes be open when Murray walked back in? Wouldn't his eyes be closed? And if sleep was your goal, why have cartoons blaring on TV?
This story is ridiculous. First of all if Murray went to the bathroom for only 2 minutes there's no way that MJ would have enough time to self inject himself with propofol and be out of it by the time Murray comes back. They even did a demonstration on tv of how propofol works and puts people out and it take a few minutes to kick in. There's no way that happened. I don't believe that. Of course this story comes out the day before the trial.
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For all those still thinking that the prop-of-fool could have been the reason for MJ's disappearance, I am reposting this.
I bet you will join me in laughing.
A cat can take a one-time injection of up to 8 mg / kg (translating in a total body weight of 25 kg / 55 lbs that could be injected with the content of a 20 ml ampule containing 10 mg/ml of the drug (=200 mg)).
A cat can take a constant infusion of 0.1 - 0.8 mg/kg/min (translating into a 5 or 40 mg infusion per minute given MJ's body weight of 117 lbs / 50 kg thus an infusion duration of 40 or 5 minutes.
So if MJ was first injected with 25 mg, this would have been sufficient for putting a kitten of 3.1 kg / 6.9 lbs. to sleep. Injection of the remaining 175 mg in one shot would have been sufficient to put a dog of 21.9 kg / 48.2 lbs to sleep.
MJ was reported to have weighed 50 lbs. / 117 kg.
(...)
i completely get your point. But what bout MJ s weight? 50 lbs would be round 20 kilos...and 117 kilos would be at least twice our MJ...well this i didnt get...sorry
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Agree with u jecilovesmichael, IMO this story is a perfect defense for Murray considering the possibility if Michael is not going to come back, it's very possible that during the trial they will find Michael' s fingerprints on the bottle and that will "confirm" that Michael selfinjected propofol and murray is not guilty. thus Michael will not have to come back and prove Murray's innocense, however it's just my theory, and the way how i see it, this is considered only if Michael doesnt want to come back.
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ugggg. sometimes TMZ (which I think should be called The Media Zone) should just stop messing with us :x makes me wanna gag :!: ... but on the other hand, they are helping us, I think :roll:
i refer them as ''The Michael Zone'' TMZ :P
yeah, me too. wouldn't surprise me if he owned the joint! :mrgreen:
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For all those still thinking that the prop-of-fool could have been the reason for MJ's disappearance, I am reposting this.
I bet you will join me in laughing.
A cat can take a one-time injection of up to 8 mg / kg (translating in a total body weight of 25 kg / 55 lbs that could be injected with the content of a 20 ml ampule containing 10 mg/ml of the drug (=200 mg)).
A cat can take a constant infusion of 0.1 - 0.8 mg/kg/min (translating into a 5 or 40 mg infusion per minute given MJ's body weight of 117 lbs / 50 kg thus an infusion duration of 40 or 5 minutes.
So if MJ was first injected with 25 mg, this would have been sufficient for putting a kitten of 3.1 kg / 6.9 lbs. to sleep. Injection of the remaining 175 mg in one shot would have been sufficient to put a dog of 21.9 kg / 48.2 lbs to sleep.
MJ was reported to have weighed 50 lbs. / 117 kg.
(...)
i completely get your point. But what bout MJ s weight? 50 lbs would be round 20 kilos...and 117 kilos would be at least twice our MJ...well this i didnt get...sorry
it's just mixed up: 50 kilos/ 117 lbs...but i read 60 kilos/ 125 lbs. but still, the point is that the amount wouldn't have even put him to sleep, let go kill.
:mrgreen:
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oh ok *feels dumb* lol
Thx!
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Hi guys,
I just found this article on a German website:
http://www.viply.de/?p=35688 (http://www.viply.de/?p=35688)
Google translator:
(Hgm) Michael Jackson's "doctor death" Dr. Conrad Murray has now put his defense in court open. He claims that the King of Pop had killed himself! Dr. Michael Murray had given only a very small dose of propofol (25mg), which was only enough for 5 to 10 minutes of anesthesia. But the music star also took other drugs, which resulted in a prolongation of anesthesia.
The next hour the doctor would be spent on Michael's side. Around noon, he left the room for two minutes to go to the bathroom and just during that time was Michael woke up and had almost 20ml propofol self administered through a drip - a massive overdose. Dr. Murray said, Jackson found with open eyes and dilated pupils on the bed and started immediately with a cardio-pulmonary resuscitation to. But the amount of propofol, the heart of the musician would have been completely halted. Michael should have been for some time-dependent propofol. Whether this version of Dr. Murray is believed? Michael's family is still based on murder.
Now the defending Michael Jackson in court physician Dr. Murray Kaliforien. MJ would have killed himself.
1. It reads Michael was a propofol addicted. This is not true because you cannot be addicted of this kind kind of drug! :x
2. They found more than 45 ml in his system. The autopsy said it was the dosage for a "big surgery" (400 ml).
3. Besides, I read in another article hat Mike could neve have given himself the drug - he would have had to move and bent his knee to do so.
i'm german, the translation is fairly correct from the article, just funny wording. if anyone needs a thorough translation, lemme know. i can post it here then.
the whole thing with the 'eyes and mouth open' just don't fit in the picture here. as we all know (or anyone who had surgery), the first thing that happens is that you CANNOT keep your eyes open after administration and once they're closed, i don't think they'll open again when your heart stops while you sleep. the first and main effect from anaesthetics is that you CANNOT move a muscle anymore, THEN you go to sleep. then they say, the dosage was to put him out 'for only 5 or 10 minutes'. you're gonna administer such a powerful anaesthetic in such a little dose that it would only work for 5 minutes? plus the fact that mj was supposed to be at a rehearsal that afternoon? that don't make sense at all! unbelievable nonsense to me.
i have an old saying for what's going on from my american family: if you throw enough sh!t against the wall, some of it has got to stick.
seems like it all came down so far, so they keep tryin'.
that's what this is... :mrgreen:
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Agree with u jecilovesmichael, IMO this story is a perfect defense for Murray considering the possibility if Michael is not going to come back, it's very possible that during the trial they will find Michael' s fingerprints on the bottle and that will "confirm" that Michael selfinjected propofol and murray is not guilty. thus Michael will not have to come back and prove Murray's innocense, however it's just my theory, and the way how i see it, this is considered only if Michael doesnt want to come back.
you didn't seriously think that murray would go to jail, did you? :mrgreen:
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i personally dont think that he will go to jail, absolutely not, i think that he will be justified, i'm almost sure :) i was just considering the possibility IF he goes to jail :)
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so if he gets off that will be it
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Just for arguements sake, let's assume for a minute Murray is speaking the truth. Ofcourse on one hand he is the main suspect, but on the other hand he was also the main witness.
- First of all, according to Murray he did not give the lethal dose of propofol but SOMEONE ELSE did.
- What is the chance that Michael would wake up exactly the minute Murray left the room (for just 2 minutes)? That chance is very small. So most likely: Michael did not wake up when Murray left.
- IF it is possible for Michael to have self-administered the propofol, what is the chance Michael would immediately after waking up administer such a huge dose of propofol - all within 2 minutes? 2 minutes is a very short timespan. It is unlikely Michael could have self-administered in this short time.
So according to this witness account, someone other than Murray administered a lethal dose of propofol. Michael likely did not wake up when Murray left the room. In that case, it is likely that someone else was waiting for Murray to leave Michael's bedside to administer the propofol. This could still be a murder attempt with Murray as a scapegoat.
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well he is the only suspect because he is the only one charged
if mike woke up - this is not a sleeping draft - he would have no knowledge if he had been asleep or for how long
he would need to clarify that - he would be suddenly awake, and it would be light he went to bed at night time
mike hated needles, it would be difficult to self medicate
i would have thought he would have called out to cm if he awoke - or moved
Randy was supposed to be there and an aid what happened to cm sister or relative - supposed to be mikes nurse
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For all those still thinking that the prop-of-fool could have been the reason for MJ's disappearance, I am reposting this.
I bet you will join me in laughing.
A cat can take a one-time injection of up to 8 mg / kg (translating in a total body weight of 25 kg / 55 lbs that could be injected with the content of a 20 ml ampule containing 10 mg/ml of the drug (=200 mg)).
A cat can take a constant infusion of 0.1 - 0.8 mg/kg/min (translating into a 5 or 40 mg infusion per minute given MJ's body weight of 117 lbs / 50 kg thus an infusion duration of 40 or 5 minutes.
So if MJ was first injected with 25 mg, this would have been sufficient for putting a kitten of 3.1 kg / 6.9 lbs. to sleep. Injection of the remaining 175 mg in one shot would have been sufficient to put a dog of 21.9 kg / 48.2 lbs to sleep.
MJ was reported to have weighed 50 lbs. / 117 kg.
The veterinarian dosage advice translates for me into this conclusion:
even one full bottle could not have been a letal dosis to a human being but put only a dog to sleep[/size] (to be confirmed by a phycisian).
We discussed Propofol many times - this is a veterinary point of view on dosage:
http://www.elephantcare.org/Drugs/propofol.htm (http://www.elephantcare.org/Drugs/propofol.htm)
Grace this article is correct however the autopsy report also stated "benzodiazepine effect" so it was saying that after all the drugs were in his system the propofol became an acute amount. Whether or not it was too much given, it was too much given the fact there were other drugs of similar nature.
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i didnt buy this story one bit or did anyone i know that read it, last nite i was in the ER with my room mates and i asked one of the doctors there would it be possible to awaken after being given propofol to just get up out of bed and he said no cuz you would still be a little drowsy so its not possibile for MJ to be able to do this all by himself in just 2 minutes, this is just another BS story to make MJ look like a drug addict
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isn't it interesting this was mentioned the day before the trial/hearing?
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i didnt buy this story one bit or did anyone i know that read it, last nite i was in the ER with my room mates and i asked one of the doctors there would it be possible to awaken after being given propofol to just get up out of bed and he said no cuz you would still be a little drowsy so its not possibile for MJ to be able to do this all by himself in just 2 minutes, this is just another BS story to make MJ look like a drug addict
so love your sigy
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i didnt buy this story one bit or did anyone i know that read it, last nite i was in the ER with my room mates and i asked one of the doctors there would it be possible to awaken after being given propofol to just get up out of bed and he said no cuz you would still be a little drowsy so its not possibile for MJ to be able to do this all by himself in just 2 minutes, this is just another BS story to make MJ look like a drug addict
not only that. did you get this from tmz today?
http://www.tmz.com/2010/04/05/michael-j ... addiction/ (http://www.tmz.com/2010/04/05/michael-jackson-conrad-murray-manslaughter-trial-defense-coca-cole-caffeine-addiction/)
he killed himself by drinking too much coke! :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:mrgreen:
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isn't it interesting this was mentioned the day before the trial/hearing?
Very much so. And I've never really followed any criminal case before but does the media know the defendant's strategy prior to the court date? Wouldn't it give the plaintiff the upper hand? Or is it different with a major celebrity case like this?
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has anyone ever thought.......WHO THE HELL DID DIE THAT DAY....????
did anyone die that day..?????
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i didnt buy this story one bit or did anyone i know that read it, last nite i was in the ER with my room mates and i asked one of the doctors there would it be possible to awaken after being given propofol to just get up out of bed and he said no cuz you would still be a little drowsy so its not possibile for MJ to be able to do this all by himself in just 2 minutes, this is just another BS story to make MJ look like a drug addict
I don't know if I wouldn't buy it based on that. I am seen people come off of propofol. They can sit right up and be very alert. If he is truly gone, it bothers me that the propofol was so strong in his system. It would seem that he died shortly after an injection.
Here are the reasons I don't buy it:
1. It seems to me that Conrad Murray is doing some finger pointing to save his butt. He wants to overshadow the fact that he was improperly administering a drug meant for hospital administration only. Sorry, anything you say Dr Murray cannot excuse the fact that you were practicing medicine improperly.
2. if Michael wanted to inject his own drugs, he wouldn't have had a doctor there to do it and monitor him. Not because MJ is a super genius, because I hear that too much, he is a human not superhuman, but intelligent enough that if he was ingesting drugs he enlisted a doctor for it to be done safely. That doesn't sound like a man that would raise up in bed and inject himself with a lethal dose of anything.
3. Also, it goes directly against what Dr Murray was saying about Michael knowing how to set up his own IV and how good he was at administering his own drugs. If you are that good at it, you don't make a HUGE mistake like that. You know that you have all these drugs in you and don't push it over the edge.
4. If he believed that Michael did this to himself, he would have said so from the very beginning. He would have told paramedics that he believed Michael injected himself with this drug, but he chose not to even mention the drug at all. If Alvarez's statement holds water then we know that the doctor said "He had a bad reaction", not "He injected himself with too much"
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and if he was caffaine addict why give him a serious drug - this is a bs story line and if the defence are really putting this forward, he should sack them on the spot
they are just as incompetent as he is
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cm is has top judge
http://www.tmz.com/category/michael-jackson/ (http://www.tmz.com/category/michael-jackson/)
Posted Apr 5th 2010 1:40PM by TMZ Staff
Sources tell TMZ the judge who will get the Conrad Murray manslaughter case is one of the toughest, smartest judges on the bench in L.A. County.
Court sources tell TMZ that L.A. County Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor will be assigned Murray's case today, following a brief hearing with the Supervising Judge of the L.A. County Superior Court.
Judge Pastor has handled some high-profile cases, including the case involving topless pics of Cameron Diaz, Jason Priestley's DUI case, and a slew of other high-profile, non-celeb cases.
Note to lawyers in the case -- Pastor is extremely tough, and nothing gets past him. He reads every legal doc in his cases and makes it a point to become an expert on whatever the case involves.
Judge Pastor also knows something about addiction -- he's renowned at the courthouse as having a frequent flier mileage addiction, often flying pointlessly over a weekend just to rack up mileage points.
He's getting the Judicial Excellence Award from the L.A. County Criminal Courts Bar Association this weekend.
Read more: http://www.tmz.com/category/michael-jac ... z0kFbBJEzn (http://www.tmz.com/category/michael-jackson/#ixzz0kFbBJEzn)
he is not going to accept any poor defence arguments
plea plea -
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thanks for spamming this topic the arabian nights guess that explains your high post count........
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thanks for spamming this topic the arabian nights guess that explains your high post count........
dont be so nasty what have i done to you
i dont know why pp go on, i never knew anything about the count until the admin mentioned it
and i have been on the site - too much addicted at times
but i am not the only one
stop being mean - i source info and comment i add vid etc i now go back into my posts and add unless someone posts after me
you have a problem
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ps i used to respect you but you lost that with your nasty post -your true colours
you should have mikes court hearing on your mind instead of numbers, i could not care less about numbers, roll it back for all i care - just childish
if you dont like what i have to say ignore me
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I am reminded by lyrics from "BAD"
YOU ARE THROWING STONES TO HIDE YOUR HANDS"
But im not entirely convinced it is Dr Murray who is doing the stone throwing here....
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For all those still thinking that the prop-of-fool could have been the reason for MJ's disappearance, I am reposting this.
I bet you will join me in laughing.
A cat can take a one-time injection of up to 8 mg / kg (translating in a total body weight of 25 kg / 55 lbs that could be injected with the content of a 20 ml ampule containing 10 mg/ml of the drug (=200 mg)).
A cat can take a constant infusion of 0.1 - 0.8 mg/kg/min (translating into a 5 or 40 mg infusion per minute given MJ's body weight of 117 lbs / 50 kg thus an infusion duration of 40 or 5 minutes.
So if MJ was first injected with 25 mg, this would have been sufficient for putting a kitten of 3.1 kg / 6.9 lbs. to sleep. Injection of the remaining 175 mg in one shot would have been sufficient to put a dog of 21.9 kg / 48.2 lbs to sleep.
MJ was reported to have weighed 50 kg / 117 lbs. (edit - of course I was wrong, we only calculate in kg - sorry for the inconvenience... :? )
The veterinarian dosage advice translates for me into this conclusion:
even one full bottle could not have been a letal dosis to a human being but put only a dog to sleep[/size] (to be confirmed by a physician).
We discussed Propofol many times - this is a veterinary point of view on dosage:
http://www.elephantcare.org/Drugs/propofol.htm (http://www.elephantcare.org/Drugs/propofol.htm)
Grace this article is correct however the autopsy report also stated "benzodiazepine effect" so it was saying that after all the drugs were in his system the propofol became an acute amount. Whether or not it was too much given, it was too much given the fact there were other drugs of similar nature.
You are right about the increased health risk when considering all the drugs said to have been administered.
However, the coroner's report was not a true autopsy report and a construct for media and therefore I don't buy the statements therein.
IMHO the coroner's report was either faked completely from A to Z or falsified in essential aspects and in the total amount of pages absolutely exaggerated. I had the impression the more fake details they were giving the more they wanted to distract attention from the essential. I was missing the colour of his teeth and of his toenails. ;) Such as Arnie Klein unfortunately did not speak about the colour of MJ's longjohns. :D
All in all, I don't buy anything of the drugs - because if you do have three wonderful kids, you would be VERY careful to not risk your life even if you know that financially they will be having paradise when you're gone.
A dead drug addict is too convenient in Beverly Hills and Bel Air.
I don't buy one second into this story.
I would however not exclude somebody wanting to poison him (though tab water in CA and other states is sufficient to become ill if you ask me - we had some thread on that when Souza an Mo were examining the potential reasons for MJ's health issues).
In the end, whether a person is responding to a certain treatment does vary depending on many factors and only medical experts may be able to clarify this.
Yet this reminds me of the psychological expertises that were called into the trials and there again you'd face human beings capable of errors and false judgement.
The battle will be fought in media - and this again is so utterly disgusting that I wished I could close down these media making money of and abusing other people's fate and sorrow.
In the Middle Ages not all was good but one thing was very good: to expose to public those who would poison a spring and those who would profit from other's by selling breads that were too little for the usual price.
I wished we would have a global exposure to public of all those who fill their pockets on other people's disadvantage.
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its the preliminary hearing guys so not the final hearing
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8603562.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8603562.stm)
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I wish it were true that having great kids kept people from doing drugs. It simply doesn't. There are millions of drug addicts (and some actually do overdose on stuff) that have great kids. Addiction is horribly hard to overcome.
Not saying MJ was an addict because I don't know. I hope he isn't/wasn't.
Last year I comforted a boy in the ER whose mother died that day of a heroin od. The cops just spoke to him and then left him sobbing in the seats down from ours. What a terrible scene. It broke my heart.
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http://uk.eonline.com/uberblog/b174908_ ... haels.html (http://uk.eonline.com/uberblog/b174908_jackson_family_stews_fans_jeer_michaels.html)
Jackson Family Stews, Fans Jeer at Michael's Doc in Court Showdown
Today 2:05 AM PDT by Josh Grossberg and Lindsay MIller
AP Photo/Isaac Brekken; Matt Sayles/AP Photo; Michael Buckner/Getty Images
"Justice for Michael!"
That was the rallying cry for a Facebook-spawned group of superfans who hired a skywriter to spread their message over the downtown Los Angeles courthouse today—adding to the circus atmosphere as Michael Jackson's former personal physician made a court appearance in his manslaughter case.
Also on hand to give a thumbs-down to Dr. Conrad Murray were members of the Jackson clan, including patriarch Joe (who is plotting a civil suit against Murray for causing Michael's death), mom Katherine, and siblings Jermaine, Randy and Janet.
"Everybody's making a big deal about it, but it's just a routine setting date," says Jane Robison, spokeswoman for the Los Angeles County District Attorney's Office.
Sure, but that didn't mean there wasn't drama.
Murray, who has pleaded not guilty to giving Jackson a lethal overdose of propofol, was booed and hissed at by fans as he was led through the hallway and into the courtroom, where the stony-faced Jacksons sat waiting together in the front row. The family has vowed to make sure Murray is held responsible for their tragic loss and sentenced to the maximum four years in prison.
Outside, in addition to the skywriting, there were dozens more Michael Jackson fans singing "We Are the World" and sporting matching red armbands and "Justice for M.J." T-shirts. Many were lugging signs expressing outrage ("Dr. Murray Makes Us Want to Scream") and sadness ("We Miss You, Michael") over the death of their hero.
It's now up to Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor to schedule a preliminary hearing to determine whether Murray will stand trial and whether the doctor can hold onto his medical license.
In court papers last week, Murray's lawyers attempted to block prosecutors from having his license revoked, saying the financially strapped cardiologist is "without fear of overstatement, hanging on by a thread."
Read more: http://uk.eonline.com/uberblog/b174908_ ... z0kGOEUd9d (http://uk.eonline.com/uberblog/b174908_jackson_family_stews_fans_jeer_michaels.html#ixzz0kGOEUd9d)
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"TRIAL BY MEDIA is a phrase popular in the late 20th century and early 21st century to describe the impact of television and newspaper coverage on a person's reputation by creating a widespread perception of guilt regardless of any verdict in a court of law.
Didn't we learn from Mike's trial..? Why are people jumping to conclusions now, just based on 'information' provided by 'unnamed sources'? HIStory is repeating itself..."
Mo said this well. Theories based on what "sources say" is ...a waste of good time.
Theories on why to keep the faith are priceless.
No MORE GARBAGE TMZ and CNN and all those that copy and paste more garbage,
WE"VE HAD ENOUGH!!
I believe Michael lives!
Love and Miss you Michael!!
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what i want to know is why did they put the poll thing on the page? that seems pretty stupid :roll:
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There was something interesting about propofol that was said by "jacksonology" (correct me if it's not this person :mrgreen: )
He/she said that when you get anesthesia, you're supposed not to drink or eat. So if Michael was not sleeping because of Coke, it means he had Coke in his stomac. How can you get home made anesthesia, without any monitoring and not being vomiting your Coke, and dying with your "vomit" in your mouth. Anesthesia is not normal sleep...if you vomit, you will not wake up because of it.
Then, it is very bad luck for Murray that Michael woke up from ANESTHESIA during the only 2 minutes he was away. And it is very very bad luck that, just awake from ANESTHESIA, Michael was clear enough to realise he didn't sleep long enough, and was clear enough administrate himself propofol via IV...I mean, when I get an hour of sleep on my sofa, OF NORMAL SLEEP, I clearly don't know how long I've been sleeping when I wake up, and I need few minutes to be clear. And Michael who was under Propofol, which mean was under You know, when people wake up from anesthesia, they usually vomit, feel strange, don't remember where they are...Michael is such a super star ! He is stronger than anesthesia ! Always clear :mrgreen:
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By the way, if Murray coudl be judged "innocent" because of Michael suicide, it means that the only reason that could make people doubt of the hoax, is OVER. NO MAN is suffering of Michael's death. He's gone, Murray will not be in jail for it. :roll: Happy ending for everyone in fact.
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I am so MAD right now!! :evil: I don't even know what to think anymore. I am so upset I can't even believe this CRAP! If this is a hoax I am mad and if Michael is gone he was MURDERED! Either way I am so angry. I live in Los Angeles and I am so glad I didn't go to the courthouse today. I heard this crap on the news. If M.J. is gone, then they are going to slander him again! If he is alive, well then I can't believe he would allow his supporters to hear this shit all over again. I am tired. I am weary. I want the TRUTH. I am frustrated. This is not a game. This is real. It is real for me and for my son. It is hurtful and I have had enough. His family won't say anything. The media is f*cking nuts! Does anyone else feel this way? I think I am done. I am spent. I love Micheal but if indeed he designed this plan I am not sure where to go from there. I do know that this is confusing. The bible tells me that Satan is the father of all lies and confusion. I just want to know why, how and who!
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whoa have u seen the votes on this matter on tmz its nearly neck and neck bs or plausable is the vote,first thing whos to say the bottle under the table wasnt planted? and has anyone bothered to cheak it for michaels finger prints inless michael slept with rubber gloves on,also if michael did this himself why was murray panicing and hiding evidence an accident is an accident right,there is so much more to this story surely someone under anaesthetic wouldnt just wake becuase someone left the room,ever had an operation and woken feeling groggy and slow? so he was using something he shouldnt of been using but when a mans life hangs in the balance you forget all that and save the person.something very fishy going on here
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whoa have u seen the votes on this matter on tmz its nearly neck and neck bs or plausable is the vote,first thing whos to say the bottle under the table wasnt planted? and has anyone bothered to cheak it for michaels finger prints inless michael slept with rubber gloves on,also if michael did this himself why was murray panicing and hiding evidence an accident is an accident right,there is so much more to this story surely someone under anaesthetic wouldnt just wake becuase someone left the room,ever had an operation and woken feeling groggy and slow? so he was using something he shouldnt of been using but when a mans life hangs in the balance you forget all that and save the person.something very fishy going on here
Maybe Murray was panicking because he knew he was in the wrong for administering Propofol in the first place. As a Doctor, he knew he was enabling and doing the wrong thing.. thats why he hid the bottles.
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I'd rather see a poll:
"Do you believe in TMZ lies?"
I wonder how many would say "yes". Just to put the record straight.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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I'd rather see a poll:
"Do you believe in TMZ lies?"
I wonder how many would say "yes". Just to put the record straight.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
TMZ is having a "hey day" with MJ fans, especially "believers". It's all about getting "hits" to their website and money, if you ask me.
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This was tweeted by Arnold Klein:
As Michael Jackson's physician for 25 years i can assure the world he could never self-inject. He was needle phobic.
about 1 hour ago via web
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Once an IV needle is set, it is set.
If you inject then via syringe a certain anaestetic, the person will just fall off the chair - speaking in images.
I have seen my daughter sitting in a bed and falling down within seconds after a syringe "shot" into IV needle for an operation and it scared the hell out of me.
There is NOOOOOOOO way somebody could inject himself with an anaestetic.
They are all lying.
All.
They are all keeping their backs clean because each and everybody wants to profit and cash in on Michael.
Each and everybody that is going to media on whatever channel to produce his pink bubble of "this is the truth now!" is lying.
I do not exclude ANYBODY in here.
Arnie Klein should know better and he DOES know better.
The reason why it is not feasible is not a personal dislike.
It is purely impossible.
The reason why he is twisting the truth is that he needs to keep his back clean because he has a lot of dirt there to be discovered with a closer look.
Like everybody else.
All are cashing in on Michael.
That's why we are being fed the immense amount of lies and twists and distractions and shows and entertainment and crap, garbage and more garbage.
The vultures have multiplied and each one wants his share.
God bless those who just love him for nothing. They are few.
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Grace,
Amen, Sister! ;)
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This was tweeted by Arnold Klein:
As Michael Jackson's physician for 25 years i can assure the world he could never self-inject. He was needle phobic.
about 1 hour ago via web
arnie speak up man
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Arnie's car sale didn't yet meet the reserve price - that's all.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160419222831&viewitem=&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26its%3DI%26otn%3D1&category=90971
Why should he speak up if he can tell so nice fairy tales? :lol:
He would put all left to sleep...
(except when it comes to MJ's longjohns LOL)
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This was tweeted by Arnold Klein:
As Michael Jackson's physician for 25 years i can assure the world he could never self-inject. He was needle phobic.
about 1 hour ago via web
The theory is he injected via the IV, not straight in his skin, so the needle phobia does not apply in that case.
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This was tweeted by Arnold Klein:
As Michael Jackson's physician for 25 years i can assure the world he could never self-inject. He was needle phobic.
about 1 hour ago via web
The theory is he injected via the IV, not straight in his skin, so the needle phobia does not apply in that case.
These are my thoughts too
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And again: Prop-of-fool is said to hurt the veins during injection. For that reason usually you would use a high solution percentage.
This "hurting the vein" is NOT fun stuff.
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but how would he know to do that,
after waking up in the morning - he would be disorientated
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But come on, I've read about the strong sedatives and discussed medicine with several people in the medical field. My research and experiences via people in the medical field have said many times that for Michael to be addicted to Propofol he wouldn't be functioning at all.
They said he was addicted to the sedatives during the filming of "This Is It" right? So we would've seen some effects of it, right? There's no way he would've been that active and alert if he was receiving injections of Propofl.
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I think Arnie is just covering his back & trying to point ALL fingers at CM. However, I do believe the needle phobia thing. I've heard many times that MJ was afraid of needles, so I don't think he'd be able to do it himself & just jab it into his arm. Not likely at all. Also, it was said by TMZ when they did their live show & answered questions on the 5th, that MJ injected the rest of the propofol that was in the vial directly into his arm when he woke up & was "frustrated" that he couldn't sleep. So Arnie was probably referring to what they said.
On to another note, this whole thing about the bottle being on the nightstand, how is that possible? IF MJ had woken up, probably groggy, noticed CM was nowhere around, he was supposedly frustrated he couldn't sleep, was unaware of how long he had been asleep, saw the propofol bottle sitting there, took the syringe & injected himself, which is said to have killed him...wtf? Did he reach over & put the bottle back on the nightstand? Even though the propofol acted quickly enough to kill him instantly, leaving his eyes wide open? What would be more likely IF they want people to believe that story, is to say the bottle was dropped on the floor & rolled under the bed, fell to the floor & crashed or was laying next to his body on the bed, his arm extended, hand opened...You know?! LOL They are so stupid. & So are the people who voted that this bullsh*t story was plausible. PLUS did everyone forget, that just last week Murray SWORE that MJ was alive at UCLA? If he overdosed & "killed himself" instantly how could he be alive at UCLA? How would they even be able to revive him if that's the case? When they TMZ did the live show online & were talking about their story they just broke about MJ killing himself, Harvey sounded really surprised when talking about the poll. He was saying how 41% of people said yes it was a plausible story. He really sounded shocked & amused, probably because it was completely fabricated by him & his staff. If you can still see it, go listen to that live show online.
Stupid, stupid TMZ. Also, I think CM's either going to end up off the hook because this case will not go to trial or it's going to take forever & he's still going to get off. I mean really, it took 10 months for this court date where at least his license would be revoked only to have it all put off until a later date AGAIN?! RIDICULOUS.
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According to this: http://manuelsweb.com/propofol.htm (http://manuelsweb.com/propofol.htm) it's not possible to get an overdose from 20ml with his weight ;) Edit: 17,5 ml, he already had 2,5ml.
When will people see that those stories are BS? This can't go to trial, the DA would make a fool out of himself with the 20ml propofol.
Besides that, propofol works VERY quick, I wonder if someone would be able to administer 20ml himself... Does anyone know?
you have about 5 seconds before you can't move a muscle anymore, once the drip starts. and i believe that amount would need more than 2 minutes to empty. not possible IMO.
tabloid BS, the usual... :mrgreen:
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Hahaha! Do I sense desperation in the defense? This is Murray's last ditch effort to prove that he is innocent.
LIES!!!