Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators
Hoax Investigation => General Hoax Investigation => Other Odd Things => Topic started by: somekindofsign on March 31, 2010, 10:38:47 AM
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I have tried to find a thread about this but I can´t find one.
If there´s anyone, just delete or mergue this, please.
We´ve made and discussed this question lots of times but I don´t think we have come to a conclusive answer.
As much as I search, I find no comfirmation of being illegal to fake one´s death perse.
All the answers I find says that it only would be illegal, other illegalities that it may involve, things such as commiting fraude to get benefits, killing someone to get a body, doing it to avoid payments or jail, civil responsabilities if someone is damaged, hurt, it could bring lawsuits to pay expenses...
Is it illegal to fake your own death? What might the consequences be if you got caught? (http://www.mahalo.com/answers/from-twitter/is-it-illegal-to-fake-your-own-death-what-might-the-consequences-be-if-you-got-caught)
http://www.thelaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=265
We know it´s legal if you had 2 murder attempts... (which FBI files to be MJ´s case)
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_it_legal_to_fake_your_own_death
We know it would no way be illegal within a guitness program, or government program.
We know it could be illegal to sign a fake death certificate... ;)
http://www.quizlaw.com/blog/things_not_to_do_when_faking_y.php
All this could explain, as we know, a big part of the hoax.
It would be wonderful to find a definitive proof of this, or come to a conclusion based on this kind of sources at least.
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Olivia Newton-John's bf faked his death a few yrs ago....some of you may recall.
He was found last yr somewhere in Mexico and gave a statement to the public through a friend or Private Investigator I think. Yes he is alive but Ive not heard that he is going to jail for what he did. They didnt really get into the legalities of his reasons for doing it, but I think he's pretty much off the hook. He had some money issues I believe and child support payments he was behind on...so I dont know how they resolved all of that. But I have not heard of him being arrested and going to jail for what he did.
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Yes ONJ ex husband is going to jail simply because he cashed his life insurance policy.
Michaels is yet to be touched or cashed. Getting back the you paid for the life insurance policy does not count as fraud, its counts a refund for the money you paid into your own policy.
so no law is broken if you fake your death and dont cash your policy.
Also, any money made through record sales is not fraud either as it is the publics choice to go out and buy the cds and dvds.
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Yes ONJ ex husband is going to jail simply because he cashed his life insurance policy.
Michaels is yet to be touched or cashed. Getting back the you paid for the life insurance policy does not count as fraud, its counts a refund for the money you paid into your own policy.
so no law is broken if you fake your death and dont cash your policy.
Also, any money made through record sales is not fraud either as it is the publics choice to go out and buy the cds and dvds.
I think or I've read somewhere that it IS legal, if it's not a insurance fraud etc.....As far as I know there is no insurance which was paid out in MJs Case or am I wrong?
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this is interesting........and knowing micheal as we do....he would have covered all the bases wouldnt he........he is not a sloppy worker,so i feel he would have had proper advise on this..............btw a friend i had coffee with today.......who does not believe........said to me "if he faked his death dont you think that is a vile thing to do to people"...............and although i believe he is alive it is a valid question........what do you guys think i should have said...?????
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In Spain there´s a huge case about an ex secret agent, ex diplomat, involved in a huge fraud, corruption, kidnapping and very weird things that involved the 90´s government. That men faked his own death when he was under interpol search and capture order. A few years ago he was found living in France but all had prescribed. He´s free, he has never been in jail. An not because the faked death prescribed, because, as many criminal offences, it would start counting when the crime is discovered, not commited...
This is a source when the doubt about the death begun. (http://Paes, a "living dead" involved in the GAL)
And here a source about his situation nowadays (http://translate.google.es/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=es&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.elpais.com%2Farticulo%2Freportajes%2FPaesa%2Fprotegido%2Felpepusocdmg%2F20100214elpdmgrep_2%2FTes&sl=es&tl=en)
But this case is really complicated as I say. Another public man was in jail, he says he doesn´t have the money, and acusses the agent to have it, to have help from government... but Paesa, the main character of this story, as the last article says "has left the case without losing a single feather"...
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this is interesting........and knowing micheal as we do....he would have covered all the bases wouldnt he........he is not a sloppy worker,so i feel he would have had proper advise on this..............btw a friend i had coffee with today.......who does not believe........said to me "if he faked his death dont you think that is a vile thing to do to people"...............and although i believe he is alive it is a valid question........what do you guys think i should have said...?????
I gess that only time and/or Michael can answer that question.
I hope he have a good reason... otherwise he would be in trouble if he BAMS.
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Yes ONJ ex husband is going to jail simply because he cashed his life insurance policy.
Michaels is yet to be touched or cashed. Getting back the you paid for the life insurance policy does not count as fraud, its counts a refund for the money you paid into your own policy.
so no law is broken if you fake your death and dont cash your policy.
Also, any money made through record sales is not fraud either as it is the publics choice to go out and buy the cds and dvds.
As I understand all this, he would have to face civil lawsuits from "affected" people asking for economic compensation, that for sure... We´re talking about Michael who always have claims... but not criminal offense.
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Yes ONJ ex husband is going to jail simply because he cashed his life insurance policy.
Michaels is yet to be touched or cashed. Getting back the you paid for the life insurance policy does not count as fraud, its counts a refund for the money you paid into your own policy.
so no law is broken if you fake your death and dont cash your policy.
Also, any money made through record sales is not fraud either as it is the publics choice to go out and buy the cds and dvds.
Oh...I hadnt heard about it. I didnt know he cashed in his LI policy!!! What a douchebag!! Youd think he would have researched this before hand!!
And I dont think MJ will go to jail either. He hasnt done anything illegal at all as far as I know. He knows ALOOOTT of people and Im sure he has his bases covered to avoid going to jail...
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this is interesting........and knowing micheal as we do....he would have covered all the bases wouldnt he........he is not a sloppy worker,so i feel he would have had proper advise on this..............btw a friend i had coffee with today.......who does not believe........said to me "if he faked his death dont you think that is a vile thing to do to people"...............and although i believe he is alive it is a valid question........what do you guys think i should have said...?????
Well for a non believer it may be vile. For believers it isn't. We all know he had rough times and needed to fix his issue. Yes it was a big shock when his death was posted, but once you realize what this man has gone through, you forgive and wish he is doing better. The non believers, obviously will not be able to comprehend why he has faked his death. You just should have told your friend, that he hasn't done anything wrong, did not cash his insurance so he is fine. Talking about insurance, If he did really die, why not cash the insurance?? It would have benifited the children, so that is another proof that he did not die, since he did not cash his life insurance.
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found this to be... interesting:
California Health & Safety Code:
102245. On and after January 1, 1978, whenever the State Registrar
receives a death certificate from a local registrar, the State
Registrar shall determine whether the state records contain the birth
certificate of the deceased or a reproduction thereof as authorized
under this chapter. If the State Registrar has such a record of
birth, it shall be revised to indicate the date of the death of the
registrant, or, alternatively, a notation to that effect shall be
entered in the State Registrar's index of births adjacent to the name
of the deceased. The State Registrar, pursuant to an ongoing
program, shall distribute, without charge, on a monthly basis to each
county, a list of deceased registrants to enable local registrars
and recorders to update their files. Upon receipt of such a list the
local registrar or county recorder shall revise the local records or
indexes accordingly.
102235. Notwithstanding any other provisions of law relating to
retention of public records, the State Registrar may cause the
original records of birth, death and marriage filed under this part
to be destroyed if all of the following requirements have been met:
(a) One year has elapsed since the date of registration of the
records.
(b) The birth, death, or marriage records have been reproduced
onto microfilm or optical disk or by any other technique that does
not permit additions, deletions, or changes to the original document
in compliance with Section 12168.7 for recording of permanent records
or nonpermanent records.
(c) Adequate provisions are made that the permanent storage medium
reflects additions or corrections to the records.
(d) A permanent copy is maintained in a manner that permits it to
be used for all purposes served by the original record.
(e) A permanent copy has been stored at a separate physical
location in a place and manner that will reasonably assure its
preservation indefinitely against loss or destruction.
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisg ... n=retrieve (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=05710529475+4+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve)
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103526.5. (a) Each certified copy of a birth, death, or marriage
record issued pursuant to Section 103525 shall include the date
issued, the name of the issuing officer, the signature of the issuing
officer, whether that is the State Registrar, local registrar,
county recorder, or county clerk, or an authorized facsimile thereof,
and the seal of the issuing office.
(b) All certified copies of birth, death, and marriage records
issued pursuant to Section 103525 shall be printed on chemically
sensitized security paper that measures 8 1/2 inches by 11 inches and
that has the following features:
(A) Intaglio print.
(B) Latent image.
(C) Fluorescent, consecutive numbering with matching barcode.
(D) Microprint line.
(E) Prismatic printing.
(F) Watermark.
(G) Void pantograph.
(H) Fluorescent security threads.
(I) Fluorescent fibers.
(J) Any other security features deemed necessary by the State
Registrar.
(c) The State Registrar, local registrars, county recorders, and
county clerks shall take precautions to ensure that uniform and
consistent standards are used statewide to safeguard the security
paper described in subdivision (b), including, but not limited to,
the following measures:
(1) Security paper shall be maintained under secure conditions so
as not to be accessible to the public.
(2) A log shall be kept of all visitors allowed in the area where
security paper is stored.
(3) All spoilage shall be accounted for and subsequently destroyed
by shredding on the premises.
CAN ANY OF THIS BE VERIFIED ? i GUESS NOT B/C THE COPIES ON THE INTERNET ARE JUST THAT... COPIES??? WE'D NEED TO SEE THE ORIGINAL DC???
103527. (a) The State Registrar shall appoint a Vital Records
Protection Advisory Committee to study and make recommendations to
protect individual privacy, inhibit identity theft, and prevent fraud
involving birth, death, and marriage certificates while providing
needed access to birth, death, and marriage record information to
those seeking it for legitimate purposes. The committee shall have
the following duties:
(1) Review and make recommendations as to the adequacy of
procedures to safeguard individual privacy and prevent fraud, while
ensuring appropriate access to birth, death, and marriage records.
(2) Make recommendations to the State Registrar as to items that
should be redacted from informational certified copies of birth,
death, and nonconfidential marriage certificates issued pursuant to
Section 103526.
(3) Make recommendations to the State Registrar regarding fraud
prevention measures concerning vital records.
(b) The committee shall include representatives from private and
governmental entities that use vital records as identity or legal
documents, consumers, law enforcement officials, genealogists, and
organizations that research vital records for legal or social
purposes. The State Registrar shall make every effort to ensure that
committee membership also represents the community at large.
(c) (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), membership on the
committee shall be for a term of three years.
(2) Appointments shall be made on a staggered basis to allow for a
change of one-third of the membership on an annual basis. One-third
of the initial committee membership shall be appointed to one-year
terms, and one-third of the initial committee membership shall be
appointed to two-year terms.
SEEMS LIKE WE NEED TO GET IN TOUCH WITH THIS COMMITTEE!!!!
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this is interesting........and knowing micheal as we do....he would have covered all the bases wouldnt he........he is not a sloppy worker,so i feel he would have had proper advise on this..............btw a friend i had coffee with today.......who does not believe........said to me "if he faked his death dont you think that is a vile thing to do to people"...............and although i believe he is alive it is a valid question........what do you guys think i should have said...?????
Well for a non believer it may be vile. For believers it isn't. We all know he had rough times and needed to fix his issue. Yes it was a big shock when his death was posted, but once you realize what this man has gone through, you forgive and wish he is doing better. The non believers, obviously will not be able to comprehend why he has faked his death. You just should have told your friend, that he hasn't done anything wrong, did not cash his insurance so he is fine. Talking about insurance, If he did really die, why not cash the insurance?? It would have benifited the children, so that is another proof that he did not die, since he did not cash his life insurance.
It was cashed in. But the money was just what he had put in. Like closing your bank account.
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found this to be... interesting:
California Health & Safety Code:
102245. On and after January 1, 1978, whenever the State Registrar
receives a death certificate from a local registrar, the State
Registrar shall determine whether the state records contain the birth
certificate of the deceased or a reproduction thereof as authorized
under this chapter. If the State Registrar has such a record of
birth, it shall be revised to indicate the date of the death of the
registrant, or, alternatively, a notation to that effect shall be
entered in the State Registrar's index of births adjacent to the name
of the deceased. The State Registrar, pursuant to an ongoing
program, shall distribute, without charge, on a monthly basis to each
county, a list of deceased registrants to enable local registrars
and recorders to update their files. Upon receipt of such a list the
local registrar or county recorder shall revise the local records or
indexes accordingly.
102235. Notwithstanding any other provisions of law relating to
retention of public records, the State Registrar may cause the
original records of birth, death and marriage filed under this part
to be destroyed if all of the following requirements have been met:
(a) One year has elapsed since the date of registration of the
records.
(b) The birth, death, or marriage records have been reproduced
onto microfilm or optical disk or by any other technique that does
not permit additions, deletions, or changes to the original document
in compliance with Section 12168.7 for recording of permanent records
or nonpermanent records.
(c) Adequate provisions are made that the permanent storage medium
reflects additions or corrections to the records.
(d) A permanent copy is maintained in a manner that permits it to
be used for all purposes served by the original record.
(e) A permanent copy has been stored at a separate physical
location in a place and manner that will reasonably assure its
preservation indefinitely against loss or destruction.
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisg ... n=retrieve (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=05710529475+4+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve)
I just looked on http://www.cdph.ca.gov/certlic/birthdea ... cords.aspx (http://www.cdph.ca.gov/certlic/birthdeathmar/Pages/CertifiedCopiesofBirthDeathRecords.aspx)
...and it seems as though you have to ask permission by mail??? AM I correct on this or am I looking at it wrong?
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Yes ONJ ex husband is going to jail simply because he cashed his life insurance policy.
Michaels is yet to be touched or cashed.
TMZ said the life insurance was quietly cashed in by Branca.
http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/08/jackson-honchos-score-3-mil/
[Jackson Honchos Score $3 Mil
Posted Aug 8th 2009 1:30AM by TMZ Staff
The special administrators of Michael Jackson's estate scored a big one -- reeling in $3 million from the company that issued a life insurance policy to M.J.
John Branca (above) and John McClain quietly cashed in the policy -- reports it was worth upwards of $20 million are simply not true. It was a $3 million payout. And here's why it was a swift move -- the coroner hasn't even released the autopsy report yet.
Some life insurance companies are hinky about paying out proceeds until the cause of death is known. Remember Heath Ledger's death, when the life insurance company wouldn't promptly fork over the $10 million because Heath allegedly lied about drug use on the application?
Somehow Branca and McClain convinced the insurance company to ante up with lightening speed -- and the estate is $3 million richer for it.
]
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So then is Branca who could be accused of fraud? :lol:
Sorry if I don´t get it.
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this is interesting........and knowing micheal as we do....he would have covered all the bases wouldnt he........he is not a sloppy worker,so i feel he would have had proper advise on this..............btw a friend i had coffee with today.......who does not believe........said to me "if he faked his death dont you think that is a vile thing to do to people"...............and although i believe he is alive it is a valid question........what do you guys think i should have said...?????
Well for a non believer it may be vile. For believers it isn't. We all know he had rough times and needed to fix his issue. Yes it was a big shock when his death was posted, but once you realize what this man has gone through, you forgive and wish he is doing better. The non believers, obviously will not be able to comprehend why he has faked his death. You just should have told your friend, that he hasn't done anything wrong, did not cash his insurance so he is fine. Talking about insurance, If he did really die, why not cash the insurance?? It would have benifited the children, so that is another proof that he did not die, since he did not cash his life insurance.
wasnt there an issue about the premiums not being paid
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Yes ONJ ex husband is going to jail simply because he cashed his life insurance policy.
Michaels is yet to be touched or cashed.
TMZ said the life insurance was quietly cashed in by Branca.
http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/08/jackson-honchos-score-3-mil/
[Jackson Honchos Score $3 Mil
Posted Aug 8th 2009 1:30AM by TMZ Staff
The special administrators of Michael Jackson's estate scored a big one -- reeling in $3 million from the company that issued a life insurance policy to M.J.
John Branca (above) and John McClain quietly cashed in the policy -- reports it was worth upwards of $20 million are simply not true. It was a $3 million payout. And here's why it was a swift move -- the coroner hasn't even released the autopsy report yet.
Some life insurance companies are hinky about paying out proceeds until the cause of death is known. Remember Heath Ledger's death, when the life insurance company wouldn't promptly fork over the $10 million because Heath allegedly lied about drug use on the application?
Somehow Branca and McClain convinced the insurance company to ante up with lightening speed -- and the estate is $3 million richer for it.
]
oops -this is not good - points to mike passing - given mikes status you would have thought he would have been insure for more, but maybe the premiums lapsed
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deleted :)
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We know it´s legal if you had 2 murder attempts... (which FBI files to be MJ´s case)
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_it_legal_to_fake_your_own_death
I posted that link to show that it´s not illegal in case of murder attempts (that´s wiki any way), but there says that this person don´t know for the rest.
Look to these other that goes further and seems more reliable... it´s not illegal itself.
Is it illegal to fake your own death? What might the consequences be if you got caught? (http://www.mahalo.com/answers/from-twitter/is-it-illegal-to-fake-your-own-death-what-might-the-consequences-be-if-you-got-caught)
http://www.thelaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=265
So the State is not important as it seems... maybe you´re right.
There are people who states that it´s illegal, but don´t give reasons nor details, so they seem to don´t understand the question and assume that it´s done for money etc. ;)
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wouldnt it be a federal offence rather than state?
idk just throwing this out
what about emailing brian to find out?
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Here's an article on Olivia's BF.
It seems Dateline tracked him down. From the comments not many are willing to let him be. Too much hate out there for people to leave others that they don't even know alone.
I hated reading the comments. Some had a judgement without really knowing the story. :-( I know MJ has a different story besides he is well loved but how many will be pissed and lash out, out of anger? We are more in tune to our emotions and how we feel about the entire thing. We've already analyzed our emotions and how we react. We Know LOVE conquers all. Others maybe not so much, and common sense flies away. We believers have looked at this from every angle possible, that in itself taught us tons.
http://www.popeater.com/2010/04/02/oliv ... 1#comments (http://www.popeater.com/2010/04/02/olivia-newton-john-patrick-kim-mcdermott-found/1#comments)
We LOVE YOU MICHAEL!!!
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this is interesting........and knowing micheal as we do....he would have covered all the bases wouldnt he........he is not a sloppy worker,so i feel he would have had proper advise on this..............btw a friend i had coffee with today.......who does not believe........said to me "if he faked his death dont you think that is a vile thing to do to people"...............and although i believe he is alive it is a valid question........what do you guys think i should have said...?????
well, michael went through things we can't even begin to imagine. if he faked his death, it was for a reason. and honestly, in this day and age, there are worse things people do to one another.
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If a life insurance policy was cashed in, and he is not dead, that is fraud. I believe it is a federal crime. It doesn't matter whether it was just the money Michael put into it or not, it is considered fraud because an insurance company paid out based on the death.
Not to mention, everyone that bought or did something based on his death would bankrupt him. Can you imagine every single person that bought something because of his death filing a claim, the city filing claims, etc?
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yea if an insurance policy was cashed in then quite simply its fraud......
but seriously $3 million ???? with all the money that michael had.... youd thinkg that he had put away more than that ! and im sure he probably would have had other policies... or other money stashed away somewehere.
but i thought that they cannot pay out on a policy without a Death Cert .... or a complete one.... as the article said that the autopsy wasnt even finshed yet, so that means the death cert couldnt have been valid, and the company couldnt have paid out.
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And we don´t know if the a life insurance policy was cashed for a FACT...
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Iam sure Michael read up about this of course and knows EXACTLY what he is doing
Don't worry guys. MJ can do anything he sets his mind to!
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Is it true that if you hoax your death but you return within one year you will not be in trouble???
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I have tried to find a thread about this but I can´t find one.
If there´s anyone, just delete or mergue this, please.
We´ve made and discussed this question lots of times but I don´t think we have come to a conclusive answer.
As much as I search, I find no comfirmation of being illegal to fake one´s death perse.
All the answers I find says that it only would be illegal, other illegalities that it may involve, things such as commiting fraude to get benefits, killing someone to get a body, doing it to avoid payments or jail, civil responsabilities if someone is damaged, hurt, it could bring lawsuits to pay expenses...
Is it illegal to fake your own death? What might the consequences be if you got caught? (http://www.mahalo.com/answers/from-twitter/is-it-illegal-to-fake-your-own-death-what-might-the-consequences-be-if-you-got-caught)
http://www.thelaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=265
We know it´s legal if you had 2 murder attempts... (which FBI files to be MJ´s case)
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_it_legal_to_fake_your_own_death
We know it would no way be illegal within a guitness program, or government program.
We know it could be illegal to sign a fake death certificate... ;)
http://www.quizlaw.com/blog/things_not_to_do_when_faking_y.php
All this could explain, as we know, a big part of the hoax.
It would be wonderful to find a definitive proof of this, or come to a conclusion based on this kind of sources at least.
This is from LAW GURU ANSWERS.........................................LINKS BELOW
THIS IS MOM'S QUESTION
hello,
My question is going to sound a little crazy.
I have a 16 year old daughter and she and her friends are convinced that Michael Jackson faked his death.
I have tried to tell her that this would be illegal, but she will not believe me.
I am hoping that you can provide a legal answer that will put this to rest for her.
I would assume that if he has faked his death, that admitting a fraudulent will into probate, and his estate making money would be illegal. He has also been reported to the Social Security as deceased and his children will collect from SS.
Wouldn't his attorney and family also be in trouble for aiding the faked death?
Also the FBI and DEA are involved in this investigation, would he not be in trouble with them also?
And i would assume that it is illegal to fake your death in order to make money for your estate.
Please help me explain this to my daughter,
she said that she would believe what is answered here.
Thank you for your time,
Tired Mom
This was the attorney's answer
What's the old saying? Mom knows best.
Tell your daughter that she's got her confirmation. Mom is right.
If he were to just walk away from everything, but not falsely report his death, it's not a crime. Sure, you have obligations (bills, child support, etc), but you're free to pick up and leave whenever and to wherever you want.
But in the case of being in on a big scheme to fake your death for financial gain? All sorts of levels of fraud come into play.
Filing a false police report, falsely reporting an emergency, insurance fraud, perjury by filing false documents with the court system, theft by trick and device - just to name a few off the top of my head.
Besides - does your daughter honestly believe that the hundreds of people that would have to be involved in this massive conspiracy are all going along with a faked death? That would mean that the doctor that called 911, the police, coroner, DA, DEA, FBI, all the family, his attorneys and countless other people are all willing to lie, risk jail time and civil lawsuits amounting to millions of dollars for Michael Jackson's estate to sell a few memorial T-shirts and increase the value of his estate? Not one of the people involved in a massive cover-up would get greedy and blow the whistle, selling their story for a million bucks to the National Enquirer?
Sorry - mom wins on this. What's at stake?
PART 2 - SHE WROTE HIM AGAIN
Hello again,
I want to thank you all for answering my question Friday regarding
Michael Jackson faking his death.
Your answers were very helpful and also made me chuckle!
My 16 yr old daughter is starting to come to her senses regarding this .
But there are still some things that she is believing in...
if you could answer a couple more questions for me,
I believe that we will be able to put this Michael Jackson thing behind us
and our family can get back to normal.
For one she thinks that because on some documents
he is listed as Michael Jackson ,
some as Michael Joe Jackson and some as Michael Joseph Jackson
that he would not be held liable for any hoax related crimes
if his legal middle name is Joe instead of Joseph..
I have tried to explain to her that all 3 names would be recognized by the court as the same person.
Also she thinks that MJ would not be held responsible
for his estate making money,
because he didn't force the fans to buy the cd's, movie tickets...etc.
Wouldn't he still be held liable for profiting from a faked death?
She lastly believes that if this isn't a hoax for a huge comeback,
which I think she is now seeing how that couldn't be possible without legal ramifications,
she believes that the government is helping MJ in the witness protection program to help expose Drug Companies,
and that if he had is life threatened twice, that it is legal to fake your death.
As you can see, the imagination of a teenage girl is very vivid,
but she is starting to see the light with your legal help.
I know that you are quite busy and this is such a silly question, so I really want to thank you for your help!
Tired Mom
His answer
Holy cow. Your daughter would do well to devote half the time to her studies as she does to the crazy conspiracy theories.
Okay - for you, Tired Mom - I'll address the questions in order, but only if you promise me your daughter will let this go.
The name thing -
My legal name is Joseph. Only my mom, when she's mad, calls me Joseph. Everybody calls me Joe. Guess what? I'm still the same person. If "Joe" gets a speeding ticket, "Joseph" is also in trouble. I can't fight the ticket just because it says "Joe."
The civil liability for faking his death -
No, he didn't force his fans to buy CDs, but if he intentionally did something, like say, fake his death, to drive up sales, then he's falsely advertised the scarcity of his music, creating a false market for his products. He would be exposed to massive lawsuits for the profits gained by a buying frenzy now that he's dead. By the way... he IS dead.
The Government is in on it... -
Yeah. They've got him in witness protection. I'm sure he'd be a star witness in any case they ever built against anyone.
No, you may not fake your death because you've been threatened once, twice or a million times.
So - we're all agreed then? Michael Joe/Joseph Jackson is dead. R.I.P. Michael. He's not in hiding, he will NOT be holding a comeback tour and it's now time for some other obsession.
Get some rest, Mom.
LINK TO PART 1 OF WHAT I POSTED
https://www.lawguru.com/legal-questions ... 10320202/a (https://www.lawguru.com/legal-questions/california-criminal-law/question-sound-crazy-year-daughter-610320202/a)
LINK TO PART 2
http://www.lawguru.com/legal-questions/ ... 60681102/a (http://www.lawguru.com/legal-questions/california-criminal-law/answering-question-friday-michael-jackson-160681102/a)
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I have tried to find a thread about this but I can´t find one.
If there´s anyone, just delete or mergue this, please.
We´ve made and discussed this question lots of times but I don´t think we have come to a conclusive answer.
As much as I search, I find no comfirmation of being illegal to fake one´s death perse.
All the answers I find says that it only would be illegal, other illegalities that it may involve, things such as commiting fraude to get benefits, killing someone to get a body, doing it to avoid payments or jail, civil responsabilities if someone is damaged, hurt, it could bring lawsuits to pay expenses...
Is it illegal to fake your own death? What might the consequences be if you got caught? (http://www.mahalo.com/answers/from-twitter/is-it-illegal-to-fake-your-own-death-what-might-the-consequences-be-if-you-got-caught)
http://www.thelaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=265
We know it´s legal if you had 2 murder attempts... (which FBI files to be MJ´s case)
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_it_legal_to_fake_your_own_death
We know it would no way be illegal within a guitness program, or government program.
We know it could be illegal to sign a fake death certificate... ;)
http://www.quizlaw.com/blog/things_not_to_do_when_faking_y.php
All this could explain, as we know, a big part of the hoax.
It would be wonderful to find a definitive proof of this, or come to a conclusion based on this kind of sources at least.
This is from LAW GURU ANSWERS.........................................LINKS BELOW
THIS IS MOM'S QUESTION
hello,
My question is going to sound a little crazy.
I have a 16 year old daughter and she and her friends are convinced that Michael Jackson faked his death.
I have tried to tell her that this would be illegal, but she will not believe me.
I am hoping that you can provide a legal answer that will put this to rest for her.
I would assume that if he has faked his death, that admitting a fraudulent will into probate, and his estate making money would be illegal. He has also been reported to the Social Security as deceased and his children will collect from SS.
Wouldn't his attorney and family also be in trouble for aiding the faked death?
Also the FBI and DEA are involved in this investigation, would he not be in trouble with them also?
And i would assume that it is illegal to fake your death in order to make money for your estate.
Please help me explain this to my daughter,
she said that she would believe what is answered here.
Thank you for your time,
Tired Mom
This was the attorney's answer
What's the old saying? Mom knows best.
Tell your daughter that she's got her confirmation. Mom is right.
If he were to just walk away from everything, but not falsely report his death, it's not a crime. Sure, you have obligations (bills, child support, etc), but you're free to pick up and leave whenever and to wherever you want.
But in the case of being in on a big scheme to fake your death for financial gain? All sorts of levels of fraud come into play.
Filing a false police report, falsely reporting an emergency, insurance fraud, perjury by filing false documents with the court system, theft by trick and device - just to name a few off the top of my head.
Besides - does your daughter honestly believe that the hundreds of people that would have to be involved in this massive conspiracy are all going along with a faked death? That would mean that the doctor that called 911, the police, coroner, DA, DEA, FBI, all the family, his attorneys and countless other people are all willing to lie, risk jail time and civil lawsuits amounting to millions of dollars for Michael Jackson's estate to sell a few memorial T-shirts and increase the value of his estate? Not one of the people involved in a massive cover-up would get greedy and blow the whistle, selling their story for a million bucks to the National Enquirer?
Sorry - mom wins on this. What's at stake?
PART 2 - SHE WROTE HIM AGAIN
Hello again,
I want to thank you all for answering my question Friday regarding
Michael Jackson faking his death.
Your answers were very helpful and also made me chuckle!
My 16 yr old daughter is starting to come to her senses regarding this .
But there are still some things that she is believing in...
if you could answer a couple more questions for me,
I believe that we will be able to put this Michael Jackson thing behind us
and our family can get back to normal.
For one she thinks that because on some documents
he is listed as Michael Jackson ,
some as Michael Joe Jackson and some as Michael Joseph Jackson
that he would not be held liable for any hoax related crimes
if his legal middle name is Joe instead of Joseph..
I have tried to explain to her that all 3 names would be recognized by the court as the same person.
Also she thinks that MJ would not be held responsible
for his estate making money,
because he didn't force the fans to buy the cd's, movie tickets...etc.
Wouldn't he still be held liable for profiting from a faked death?
She lastly believes that if this isn't a hoax for a huge comeback,
which I think she is now seeing how that couldn't be possible without legal ramifications,
she believes that the government is helping MJ in the witness protection program to help expose Drug Companies,
and that if he had is life threatened twice, that it is legal to fake your death.
As you can see, the imagination of a teenage girl is very vivid,
but she is starting to see the light with your legal help.
I know that you are quite busy and this is such a silly question, so I really want to thank you for your help!
Tired Mom
His answer
Holy cow. Your daughter would do well to devote half the time to her studies as she does to the crazy conspiracy theories.
Okay - for you, Tired Mom - I'll address the questions in order, but only if you promise me your daughter will let this go.
The name thing -
My legal name is Joseph. Only my mom, when she's mad, calls me Joseph. Everybody calls me Joe. Guess what? I'm still the same person. If "Joe" gets a speeding ticket, "Joseph" is also in trouble. I can't fight the ticket just because it says "Joe."
The civil liability for faking his death -
No, he didn't force his fans to buy CDs, but if he intentionally did something, like say, fake his death, to drive up sales, then he's falsely advertised the scarcity of his music, creating a false market for his products. He would be exposed to massive lawsuits for the profits gained by a buying frenzy now that he's dead. By the way... he IS dead.
The Government is in on it... -
Yeah. They've got him in witness protection. I'm sure he'd be a star witness in any case they ever built against anyone.
No, you may not fake your death because you've been threatened once, twice or a million times.
So - we're all agreed then? Michael Joe/Joseph Jackson is dead. R.I.P. Michael. He's not in hiding, he will NOT be holding a comeback tour and it's now time for some other obsession.
Get some rest, Mom.
LINK TO PART 1 OF WHAT I POSTED
https://www.lawguru.com/legal-questions ... 10320202/a (https://www.lawguru.com/legal-questions/california-criminal-law/question-sound-crazy-year-daughter-610320202/a)
LINK TO PART 2
http://www.lawguru.com/legal-questions/ ... 60681102/a (http://www.lawguru.com/legal-questions/california-criminal-law/answering-question-friday-michael-jackson-160681102/a)
It's what I've always thought but have tried to ignore. It makes sense--there have to be negative repercussions to faking a death. It is just a bit hard to see it in writing and from a legal source. SO..even if Michael isn't truly gone, chances are we're not going to be seeing him again :( . Heartbreaking. Just my opinion. Hope I'm wrong..
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@simply me
I really dont know what to say to all this or how the law works where you live but I am in Canada and here if there is a mistake on your speeding ticket on the speed you we're going or any stupid little mistake you can go to court, contest you ticket and will get off.
So I can not take this seriously or discard it. Sorry. ;)
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Don't let yourself get fooled by one opinion of one lawyer.
Law is written on paper, usually decided by a democratic parliament (or in some countries by one man only).
Applied law by lawyers is about interpretation of the written text - whether yes or no the written paragraph applies to the case, whether this or that circumstance must be considered and / or needs more weight and which other paragraphs would need additional attention.
Applied law in court is about challenging the written text in context with the counterpart advocats - the most interesting battles about written law and storybooks are taking place in the US - amazing strategic chess games btw.
There is a saying that reflects some truth:
"In court and on the high seas you are in God's hand."
Meaning everything may happen and you cannot be certain to not find injustice in court.
It is known that depending on which court is being called to judge over a case the sentences may vary widely.
It's good that there was an answer at least.
However:
If this lawyers thinks what he said this does not mean that he's right. It's one opinion only.
AND he's dismissive to the idea of a hoax so he will not bother to interprete the whole spectrum of a hoax case.
Therefore to me these utterances are only dust in the wind.
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@simply me
I really dont know what to say to all this or how the law works where you live but I am in Canada and here if there is a mistake on your speeding ticket on the speed you we're going or any stupid little mistake you can go to court, contest you ticket and will get off.
So I can not take this seriously or discard it. Sorry. ;)
AGREE,HERE IN MY COUNTRY EVEN A DOCUMENT OF LESS IMPORTANCE IS CONSIDERED ILLEGAL IF EVEN A SINGLE LETTER IS MISSPELLED IN YOUR NAME OR SURNAME.
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do we even know if hes a valid attorney or a valid source for that matter..... nobody on the internet is who they say they are..
and yea the name thing is strict in some countries.....
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@simply me
I really dont know what to say to all this or how the law works where you live but I am in Canada and here if there is a mistake on your speeding ticket on the speed you we're going or any stupid little mistake you can go to court, contest you ticket and will get off.
So I can not take this seriously or discard it. Sorry. ;)
AGREE,HERE IN MY COUNTRY EVEN A DOCUMENT OF LESS IMPORTANCE IS CONSIDERED ILLEGAL IF EVEN A SINGLE LETTER IS MISSPELLED IN YOUR NAME OR SURNAME.
In other countries that might be true, but it is simply NOT true here in the US. You can have your name misspelled on just about anything and it still stick. It is something like a thing in civil suits called implied liability. In other words, if it is common knowledge you are the person that is being represented in the document, and there be a common sense reasoning (like say "Joe" is short for Joseph in a lot of cases), then the documents are good.
This is something I know for certain not just speculation and not a lawyer telling me.
When my son and I were involved in a court case that lasted 4 years, over those years his name was misspelled and all sorts of mistakes made with it (and mine too) with lots of different documents. All of them were legal, all of them stuck and I specifically asked about this more than once to a judge when filing them.
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To reading-on
Well, thank u very much for that info, so i guess this is it, i mean it clears up Joe- Joesph thing,no more speculations about it.
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coem now everyone you are all using the wrong words
the term cashed in is- getting the money before you die
http://www.finweb.com/insurance/how-to- ... olicy.html (http://www.finweb.com/insurance/how-to-cash-in-your-whole-life-insurance-policy.html)