Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators
Hoax Theories => Other Theories => Topic started by: ~Souza~ on April 19, 2011, 11:31:12 PM
-
AllInGoodTime suggested we'd take it one step at a time, so first discussion point: Could MJ have pulled this all off alone? And who are involved?
-
OK cool.....
Lets start with----
Reasons why MJ could of done this all by himself.
-money
-connections
-ummm it's hard to come up with more...next.....
-
I vote you repost your most recent tiai post here AIGT, and then I'll move my response over from the intro thread. It was a good one, nice jump off point. It will be buried there.
-
I think souza is right, the helicopter is irrelevant til you answer who/what was is in ambo.
Honestly, noone has "real" proof and we all here can justify our own reasoning to make it make sense. Tho, somewhat disappointed TS started us down this path again and is not available to "guide" us thru, we can all argue the merits to our points forever.
At some point logic must takeover and fantasy and delusional(only because we want it to be true) ideas as to the events must end and tho no concrete evidence is available, logical and critical thinking must be used in order to discover the events of the hoax.
Example of critical thinking scenarios-
-Could MJ pull this off alone?
-You know must consider the scope, scale and those involved.
-Tho we love MJ and he has done a great many things and has met, rubbed and associated with the most powerful people, we WANT to believe he could do this alone without assistance.
-Now considering what we think we know, Is this really possible? And why?
MJ had/has many influences, and could pay/persaude/reward many people to play along.
Logically without emotion the possibility is very slim. So you must weigh this versus....
-Now consider why this is not possible. And why.
-could not pay everyone
-or have the influence to do so
-amount of departments, people and resources needed
-coordination , timing and "making the signs match exactly"
-so on and so forth.
For example purposes only, this appears to be heavily favored in the fact he most probably could not do this alone. Ruling out what your heart feels and your mind wants, it is quite clear MJ needed help.
And the process continues, So if help was needed then(next question). You know have a reference and logical starting point in which to return to when other issues/questions arise.
In time, the answers will answer themselves with the questions you have already debated. And a more realistic conculsion can be made.
MY heart says I see MJ move in the copter. Tho lighting and angles says it could be just that. But in fact, that very question could be answered without all the "what if" providing critical thinking is applied from the beginning and logic is used to interpet what you find. Because if we discover the answer to the body , we discover the ambulance, we discover the pic, the phone call etc etc. Which answers if/what was in copter. But all these answers are answered if you start at the bginnning.
Not saying the way each of you research and/or deduct your ideas is wrong, just maybe giving a different thought process that can be used. Ideas pertaining to all the various issues can give multiple results and moreso if not done in a chronilogical order. By concluding the questions in the order in which the happen will rule out many of "far fetched" ideads we have. (and I have had many)
as requested....
-
So in light of that, no, it's not realistically possible that he did this alone, ie without help from the authorities.
So ok, we have FBI. Which of all the govt departments, are most likely because they override everyone else. Well, except the CIA, but they're more international, working intelligence and all, so would be unlikely have an interest or stake in anything domestic like the death hoax (which is more or less, for all practical purposes, pretty isolated to the US).
So ok, so the FBI is involved. They would provide the means to keep it on the down low and prevent questions from being asked by any unaware but key players, example: helicopter guys.
So with the FBI on board, who does MJ really have to fool with the charade on 6/25? The media and the public. The media will fool the public on their own so really, all he has to fool is the media.
So if only the media need to be fooled, why bother with a real corpse? Or even a dummy for that matter.
But we saw something on 6/25 being loaded into and unloaded out of a helicopter.
So what was it? Doesn't matter really since we know it wasn't a dead MJ. And with the FBI on board, it could have been anything... it just had to look like a body from 100 yards away on camera.
That being said, if only the media needed to be fooled, and it's certainly not normal or usual to transport a body in a sheet, why did they decline the use of a body bag which would seem standard? Why draw attention this way?
Original theories were because Michael needed to breathe. I think there is a great deal of merit to our original work and this has always stuck in my mind.
Hit me.
-
oh good gosh I have a "few" more as to "no way in ...." he did this alone. This will probably least debated question. Tho bec, lol, your already on question 23...haha
-
So who's he working the hardest to fool the most?
The media.
And that excites me a great deal because that is coming full circle on our investigations. It was the initial impression once real theories started to form in summer of 2009, that he's punking the media as payback for all the lies they print and the way they manipulate our reality.
Am I going too fast or off topic already?
I am aren't I.
Sorry. I'm anxious to get rolling.
-
the question who....
FBI, CIA are the only 2 agencies with the ability to perform, decieve and construct the hoax the way it played out. FBI is more logical due to witness protection programs and their knowledge of how to "make one disappear". The FBI could recruit, "force"(lol) and leaglly have the various parties comply with little risk of discovery. To coordinate fire, police, coroner and have them provide personnel to achieve the hoax is easily within their capabilities. And could of done this in a much less complicated way with same results.
Ya bec, we gotta start at the beginning, even if it seems like a given. One question, one rip it apart, next...hehe...because later when other not so easy stuff comes up , the debate we have here plays a role to the answers to come later.
-
Coordination is key. Different agencies working together is key.
So long as they are working together.
We know LAFD is in. But what about LAPD?
ALso, remember rumors of the LAPD and the DA fighting over the Murray being arrested thing? Very early 2010 reports were hinting that the agencies weren't getting along and couldn't agree on whether Murray could turn himself in or not. Remember this? It was before Murray's arrest in Feb 2010. I suppose they were talking about it in October 2009 even.
Then some spokesperson from some agency came forward and said no one is fighting, paperwork, delay, blah blah, is the excuse etc etc yada.
Whatever. Does LAPD have to be in on it? If they are clueless that would explain the delay in their response to the scene, 2 days later. They may have been milling about going wait, what?
I don't recall any LAPD official involvement indicating their status either way.
-
also, LAPD should of made the house a crime scene much sooner. The family tampered and removed evidence or even planted some. So I could see a "special" blind crime scene crew sent for show. Afterall this was a show. Chief resigns. Why? Perhaps he falls from the spotlight and it fades away. I think yes PD envolved.
-
You could argue that LAPD were not in on it (can we say IOI=In On It, since this comes up so often?)
LAPD not IOI, they were so late in the know on 6/25/09 so their info came directly from the media, just like everyone else, and followed up on it only because of media pressure. They didn't show up on 6/25 because there was no real 911 call so no real dispatch of emergency personnel either, which is how they would be alerted in case of a real emergency. That didn't come so they didn't come. They only showed up for crowd control because that was the only call they got. LAPD would be so busy running crowd control it perhaps delayed any latent investigation into the "death" that should have happened.
LAPD is IOI, they were working in conjunction with the LAFD under FBI mandate so were not authorized to be involved that day. They were following a script which timed their response 2 days later.
I don't know. LAPD not IOI sounds more realistic just rereading what I wrote but that could be considered a risk. The sisters showed up at Carrolwood that night and cleaned the place out (or dropped stuff off). If LAPD not IOI, there would be the risk that they would be at the house when investigators showed up... so maybe that's why they came late at night, as caught on camera by the paparazzi.
-
If LAPD were IOI, why not have a police car stationed with the fire truck outside Carrolwood for realism? This has been one of the odd things about that day, no police presence at the house. So if it's all staged and LAPD/LAFD are both IOI, imagine the show they should have put on, LAPD providing some good crowd control at the house, holding back some crazed fans even, paparazzi slipping through to get the pic...
So why not LAPD at the scene? Maybe they're not IOI. At least not at the time on 6/25?
-
If the LAPD was NOT in, wouldn't they have found it odd that they did not get notified about the emergency that day?
We must also not forget that by July, all chiefs that were in office that day, will either have resigned, or have their terms ended.
LAPD Chief William Bratton form LAFD resigned in August 2009, leaving office October 31, 2009:
Bratton, 61, announced Wednesday that he will be leaving the department on October 31, with three years left in his second five-year term.
http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-b ... 4648.story (http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-bratton-resigns,0,6544648.story)
Fire Chief Douglas Barry resigned on May 28, 2009, leaving office August 31, 2009:
Los Angeles Fire Department Chief Douglas Barry, who took office two years ago and vowed to reform the troubled department, will retire effective Aug. 31..
http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-c ... 8069.story (http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-chief-barry-resigns,0,4528069.story)
Director of FBI Robert Mueller's term ends July 5, 2011 (FBI Director's term is now max. 10 years):
Mueller was nominated for the position of FBI Director on July 5, 2001.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mue ... ppointment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mueller#FBI_appointment)
Former governor Arnold Schwarzenegger's term ended this January.
So all key people of the government agencies will be gone by July 5 this year. Coincidence? I know that the term of two of them simply ended/ends this year, but Barry was only 2 years in office and Bratton had 3 years left when he quit.
The LAPD had to provide a lot of agents during the memorial and they made a little bit too many mistakes after June 25. Too many to have been mistakes if you ask me.[/color]
-
Another one:
Amir Dan Rubin, the Chief Operating Officer at UCLA left UCLA in December 2010
http://www.linkedin.com/in/amirdanrubin (http://www.linkedin.com/in/amirdanrubin)
That's this guy:
[youtube:23y2zke0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVaEaDty5_Y[/youtube:23y2zke0]
-
To do that Michael must have had help from some people who work for the government, FBI, paramedics, someone in the hospital and the coroner.
According to Michael paramedics was already "dead" when they arrived so why not been complied with the protocol and called the police, Murray insisted that taking him to hospital, the hospital said they worked resusitaste trying without any results, I do not think a paramedic in a apreciasion mistake like this, I think I had to remove the "corpse" without police intervention.
-
If it was a real 911 heart attack, police are not normally sent.
Since MJ's call it was not revealed it was MJ, the PD might not have been "aware" of who was at the house.
Having PD there as the Ambo did their thing could raise suspcision as to their being there.
So no PD just follows what every Joe Blow 911 call is like unless it is a crime scene and not a medical emergency.
If Ambo's arrive to a scene where an obvious crime was commited they notify PD , but in this case it did not appear this way.
-
The irregulartities and general oddities start from the beginning of the 25th. We have been told that the paramedics arrived to a death at home scenario. I don't know if protocol is the same in different countries, but in Australia, in the case of a person passing away at home, the police must attend because a death has occurred. Suspicious or not. In the event of a 000 call here, police usually roll up along with the ambulance and crew and they work together to coordinate the best outcome in the crisis. So I'm having to entertain the idea that the 911 call was a fake because of no police present . Given the fact we were told a death occurred and the 'death scene' was not in lock down, we either have a very incompetent police force in LA or they were taking direction from a higher authority. This is not the keystone cops here so they must be under orders.
I admit the chance of showing up the force's incompetence would be tempting considering the humiliation and brutality Michael had suffered at their hands, but I'm sure he's a bigger man than this and has much bigger fish to catch and then fry.
If I take the next logical step from here then the paramedics at the house on the 25th must be IOI if the 911 call is a fake. What are the overriding thoughts that lead me to arrive at this conclusion? The lack of police presence during the emergency. Feel free to shoot down my starter theory.
-
That is true AIGT, but I thought we had more or less established that the call was fake and the paramedics are IOI. So no real call=no real emergency dispatch.
Quite true that LAPD need not send a patrol car to a routine emergency call even if the call/paramedics had been real/legit.
Hmm *scratches head*.
Off to think on this.
-
Time of death can only be called by a doctor/RN.. THis case a docotor was there and he did not call death, so it was not a crime scene til after UCLA.
When we code someone at work, we go until told to stop even tho we know they ain't coming back. I have coded people for over an hour and they dead from get go but time of death was not until we stop.
So CPR never "stopped" on MJ so therefore not dead. Not dead til UCLA.
Of course assuming this all happened on 25th. Which will be debated later I'm sure.
-
RK, but the argument is that Murray successfully got "the body" sent to hospital so therefore Carrolwood wasn't considered a death scene until many days later... which is when police finally came to investigate it.
So that sort of lends itself to the theory that LAPD might not have been IOI, at least originally.
No dead on site=no police presence=no crime scene.
Later reports leaked out that paramedics "thought he was dead " at scene. Not right away so it could be argued that was reason for no LAPD at Carrolwood. Like AIGT said, no need for PD at medical emergency, and he's right about that.
Again, no need to investigate a death scene when initial reports all indicated that this was simply a medical emergency in the home, with death occuring at UCLA.
Ok now I'm really off to think on this (aka go to work).
-
MJ you are shifty. You have used every loophole to your advantage.
-
You know, HIPAA laws restrict everyone from discussing anything in regards to a real patient and their condition that day.
-
Hard to fathom PD not being IOI...but makes sense they weren't needed too....very interesting. No seemingly real reason for them to be then.
First question---
Help needed- yes-check
Who---
FBI-yes-check
Fire-yes-check
UCLA-yes-check
Coroner-yes-check
Police-hmmmm
-
I still lean to PD IOI...
Once everyone knew it was MJ at hospital and he 'died', With everything about MJ being well overblown, etc, would you not send someone over directly after the 'death' knowing of crowd control and/or the possibilites of foul play just because it's MJ. Seems they took their time.(I do not know if they sent PD for crowd control later on 25th for sure)
But again, even if not involved, and evidence was gathered, the coroner already IOI so he could confirm/deny whatever it was they found.
-
all bizarre characters in this story an incompetent doctor, a paramedic who recognize a person anywhere in the world is known, the police to act after the "crime scene" already been "contaminated", and is nothing but that these police have the videos up and they saw nothing but the moment when Michael gets home around 12:30 am, but as the case is not considered simply murder them! deleted!
-
Well, I am torn 50/50 on PD.
I can see why they'd be IOI and why NIOI.
Maybe their role is revealed later as we break this down.
I call it a push right now.
-
Michael was not alone in this, would not have done it without the help of the FBI
-
LAPD has to be in on it. They did an "exhaustive and thorough" investigation. If WE can figure out with the info we have that MJ is still alive, I am certain they would, IF they would not be in. They talked to Murray, the talked to family members, the coroner had to report to them, they had to be present at the court houses, memorial etc. No way they would not be aware of the hoax.
Detective Orlando Martinez asked a Las Vegas judge this AM to keep search warrant documents related to Applied Pharmacy secret until January 18. (a HOLIDAY)
http://www.tmz.com/2009/11/18/michael-j ... las-vegas/ (http://www.tmz.com/2009/11/18/michael-jackson-dr-conrad-murray-lapd-investigation-applied-pharmacy-search-warrant-las-vegas/)
Investigation wraps up in October:
http://www.tmz.com/2009/10/08/doctor-co ... ort-court/ (http://www.tmz.com/2009/10/08/doctor-conrad-murray-michael-jackson-bench-warrant-arrest-child-support-court/)
Then finally it was late December, same time the FBI files were released:
http://www.tmz.com/2010/01/08/michael-j ... slaughter/ (http://www.tmz.com/2010/01/08/michael-jackson-conrad-murray-death-investigation-lapd-manslaughter/)
Chief William Bratton on the Lupus Race for Life, I thought that was interesting:
[youtube:7k8bb27i]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tikjYeF5Rgg&feature=related[/youtube:7k8bb27i]
-
ok, I am now 80/20 PD in.....anyone else we are missing before we close this out?
WE have made overwelming arguments for each group being involved, and very few solid points that they aren't....
IMO we have answered out the first question.
I think next should be ...that day umm the other day............did june 25th happen that day or perhaps prior?(this will be fun one)
Of course, when souza says "we graduate".....LOLOL
-
~Souza~ wrote:
LAPD has to be in on it. They did an "exhaustive and thorough" investigation. If WE can figure out with the info we have that MJ is still alive, I am certain they would, IF they would not be in. They talked to Murray, the talked to family members, the coroner had to report to them, they had to be present at the court houses, memorial etc. No way they would not be aware of the hoax.
Detective Orlando Martinez asked a Las Vegas judge this AM to keep search warrant documents related to Applied Pharmacy secret until January 18. (a HOLIDAY)
http://www.tmz.com/2009/11/18/michael-j (http://www.tmz.com/2009/11/18/michael-j) ... las-vegas/
Investigation wraps up in October:
http://www.tmz.com/2009/10/08/doctor-co (http://www.tmz.com/2009/10/08/doctor-co) ... ort-court/
Then finally it was late December, same time the FBI files were released:
http://www.tmz.com/2010/01/08/michael-j (http://www.tmz.com/2010/01/08/michael-j) ... slaughter/
Chief William Bratton on the Lupus Race for Life, I thought that was interesting:
if I am not mistaken, correct me if I was not so LAPD have been the least have been mentioned in this :?:
-
[the arabian nights wrote:
hi guys i did not know that LAPD had a blog page
but see below, so what were they investigating in addition the mj's death (?)?
http://lapdblog.typepad.com/lapd_blog/2 (http://lapdblog.typepad.com/lapd_blog/2) ... pdate.html
"Michael Jackson Death Investigation Update
Los Angeles: Today, the Los Angeles County Coroner’s Office released their findings on the cause and manner of the death of Michael Jackson. This announcement affords the Los Angeles Police Department the opportunity to provide an update on the ongoing investigation.
On August 20, 2009, the Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD) met with representatives from the United States Department of Justice, Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) and the California Department of Justice, Bureau of Narcotics Enforcement (BNE) to discuss information discovered during the investigation into the death of Michael Jackson. Based on that meeting and at the request of the LAPD, the DEA and BNE have initiated their own independent investigations into matters that the LAPD’s investigation uncovered that may not be directly related to the cause of death.
The LAPD is the primary investigative agency responsible for the investigation into the death of Michael Jackson. The Department will continue to use the assistance of the DEA and BNE as necessary, and these agencies will continue to cooperate with each other as their various investigations progress.
The investigation into the death of Michael Jackson is ongoing and will result in the case being presented to the Los Angeles County District Attorney for filing consideration. Until that time, LAPD detectives will continue to meet and confer with District Attorney representatives.
The LAPD would like to acknowledge and thank the following law enforcement agencies for their assistance in this investigation: the United States Department of Justice, Drug Enforcement Administration; the California Department of Justice, Bureau of Narcotics Enforcement; the Houston Police Department and Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department.
The LAPD will not comment on any further aspects of this investigation.
/quote]
and some comments from people:
Posted by: Bogdana | September 25, 2009 at 07:30 AM
The key is why did Chief Bratton resign just over 2 months when he made his usual address to his dept to the effect of, "As we approach the midyear(June '09)...I look forward to serving with the finest department.....Then, BOOM! A resignation notice 2 months later July '09? Coincidental? I think maybe Chief Bratton's wife, who is an attorney, advised him to get out while the gettin was good. Thing is, all la except the officials know "What's Up UCLA Hospital Doc? There is no Tohme Tohme. There is no Conrad Murray. It's all an elaborate scheme to fool the public. All it takes is for 1 card to be played & the game is over for all involved in the hoax. It's just a matter of time, you see. That's how life works. There is no PERFECT CRIME & LAPD knows this. It's who you know in the hierarchy that lead people to say & do things they normally wouldn't do because of their morals or threats? My Prediction: No arrest, unless it's another continuation of the hoax saga. How does it make the LAPD look when it takes a corpse 72 days to be interred; Especially when FL purchased FitzHenry Fun Home California locations 1 day after 6-25-09? FitzHenry filed bankruptcy on those locations. When it's obvious the setting at FL is a stage with actors playin their role? I called & talked to the FL Director & told him what I knew to be factual. He hung up in my face? Was that a prudent thing to do if one isn't guilty? One wild card & it's over for more than numerous players in the game. We'll all be watching & waiting. Will this comment be posted? I doubt it.
Posted by: Shanaland | September 26, 2009 at 11:39 AM
On a footnote, please give us the names of the DEA and BNE agents or access to their telephone number who are investigating LAPD investigative findings? To generalize is deception. And, what is the name of the LA County Chief Coroner who performed MJ's autopsy? It was LA County Investigative Coroner Ed Winter who publicly announced MJ's cause of death. Is Ed Winter related to Getty Images/Kevin Winter? It was Getty Images who took the Staple Center "MJ Memorial" pictures? And, why weren't the paparazzi all over Staple Center while MJ was "re(hears)ing? Paparazzi have been known to hide out in gutters, trees and face death just to get that "ONE" pic that would enable them to never work again. Can any of these questions be answered or should the public answer them ourselves?
Posted by: Shanaland | September 26, 2009 at 11:50 AM
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=4386 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=4386)
-
Thanks paula, I knew you would be able to dig up some old stuff! LOL
I think this shows that the real ongoing investigation was actually into pharmacies and Hollywood doctors. We know Applied Pharmacies is now closed. I think that is what the LAPD was/is doing with cooperation of the mentioned agencies. I think that this is also why Mike has been doc-shopping all those years. He was portrayed as a drug addict, so he was the perfect guy for the job to collect evidence concerning some shady pharmacies and docs.
But I'm drifting off. IOI: FBI, LAFD, LAPD, LACC and UCLA (key people). Does anyone want to summarize how we came to this conclusion? We need at least 2 strong points per agency. I would if I weren't that lazy tonight. Once we have that this thread can be closed and a new question can be discussed.
-
and Applied Pharmacy remember addresses
I'll rest a while, my head hurts :oops:
According to the affidavit, during the search of the house of Dr. Murray and office, the police recovered a receipt from Applied Pharmacy. The receipt showed that the May 12, 2009, Dr. Murray bought 4100 ml vials of propofol.
So I decided to do a little research into Applied Pharmacy I searched in Google the address on the order Applied Pharmacy.
According to google here is the address Applied Pharmacy:
2851 N Tenaya Way # 202
Las Vegas, NV 89128-0453
The search warrant lists at Applied Pharmacy:
6370 W. Flamingo Rd
1 suite in Las Vegas, NV
BIG difference. So I decided to call them and I have a voice message because they were closed for Thanksgiving According to your voice mail Your new address is:
3290 S Fort Apache Road in Las Vegas
So yes, I find it hard to believe that the pharmacy b in three different places within one year, breaking leases and all.
In addition, in order that, says Dr. Murray office address is:
2110 East Flamingo Rd
Suite Number 201
http://exploringthehoax.wordpress.com/ (http://exploringthehoax.wordpress.com/)
-
Yes the address is wrong on the search warrant. That means that every bit of evidence obtained in that search is inadmissible in court.
Strange all this time later, with all these wacky articles about defense strategy, and that's never been mentioned.
-
There is no way Murray can be convicted if this were a real case, NO WAY. Murray will walk, if we ever get to the end of the trial. Could be a good discussion later on: "Why Murray could never go to jail"
-
I do not know if this can serve as it is of the old forum MJHD, is information that is not now available and serves as a frame of reference,.. now if i am going to rest
House and staff
Within a few hours of the cardiac arrest, Michael Jackson’s close staff personnel were fired. It seems like a very bizarre and prompt decision.
The Jackson family were permitted to enter the House and promptly took carloads of items.
There are news clippings of this in youtube, where you can see that even bed sheets and blankets were removed from his house. The Jackson family stated that they were concerned that these would be stolen. However, the LAPD investigation into Jackson’s death resulting from drug overdose and possibility of homicide was launched on the 28th. At this point, his belongings from his rented house had already been removed by the Jackson’s. Despite this, the LAPD investigation contends that they found IV stands, IV bags, prescription medications and oxygen tanks. So if Michael’s belongings had already been removed, what exactly did the LAPD find and how do we know that these were firstly even present, and secondly if they had not been ‘planted’ there by the family? This took place before the police arrived at the scene and closed the scene for investigation.
Another convenience is that the Survellience tapes from the Security CCTV went missing (or never existed because the system was turned off) of the events surrounding Michael’s “death”.
The “collapse” was allegedly recorded and then the tape cuts. The Hard drive where the CCTV footage of the house and grounds was auto downloaded is erased.
Jackson always kept a few million dollars in cash and certain items of jewelry with him where ever he went. These items are missing and no cash was found in the home.
Drugs
There were no drugs found in Michael Jackson’s home until the second search by Police (after the Jackson family and others had been inside the home.)
-
You know... it looks so much like the family went in and removed things and planted things and totally covered for something... but we know this was planned for decades previous so they had no reason to do any of that. All arrangements inside Carrolwood would have been made ahead of time at a leisurely pace... not after the fact in a hurry and undercover of darkness (at night).
The only logical answer, now knowing what we know, is that the family's movements that day was a purposeful show, all part of the illusion.
-
this is kinda fun...starting from the beginning and hearing/seeing things you knew but have become hazy again...like jermaine annoucing MJ death....such an act....the sighs , deep breaths all for show, no real emotion...off-topic i know but this fun..... :D
-
Jul 3, 1:53 AM (ET)
By LINDA DEUTSCH and THOMAS WATKINS (AP)
LOS ANGELES (AP) - The investigation of Michael Jackson's
death is widening as questions intensify about the drugs he
took, the doctors who provided them and the actions of police.
Why didn't police seal the mansion where he had been living?
Why were moving vans seen at the home, and were any items
removed before police wrapped up their search? Why didn't
they get immediate search warrants? Why did they tow away
a doctor's car right after the death but not declare the home
a crime scene?Los Angeles police say proper procedures were
followed based on the circumstances officers encountered when
they were called to the home at 12:21 p.m. on June 25. A doctor
was attending to Jackson and stayed with him when he was placed
in an ambulance at 1:07 p.m. There was no sign of foul play.
"If I was the chief detective on the case, I would have said,
'We don't know what's going on. We should seal the scene,'"
said defense attorney Harland Braun, who has represented
celebrities including Robert Blake, Roseanne and Gary Busey.
"You always have to think of the worst-case scenario and you
have to think fast. I would have sealed the scene just because
it was Michael Jackson."
http://apnews.excite.com/article/200907 ... PPQ00.html (http://apnews.excite.com/article/20090703/D996PPQ00.html)
NOTE THE TIMING:
Chief Bratton speaks on Resignation Los Angeles:
Earlier today, Wed, August 5th, I met with Mayor
Antonio Villaraigosa to inform him I, William Bratton
will resign. Oct 31, 2009 Bratton turns in his keys
Gun and Badge to the City and heads East.
LA awaits a new Chief.
THIS CASE IS STILL OPEN.
http://mjhoaxlive.blogspot.com/search?u ... results=50 (http://mjhoaxlive.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2009-11-09T08%3A05%3A00-08%3A00&max-results=50)
Since the news is not in the link. ..I think that the June 25 and the following days, all did the things that have never have been done, the doctor, paramedics, police, ..and the family
-
according to family, Michael had told them that he would be killed .. and Michael is "killed" the first reaction of the family is looking for a truck to pull things out of the house, they did not think of going to the police to tell them that this "could happen"
as I said in my previous post everyone did things that had to be done and the late reaction of the police believe was also planned
-
agree paula, but me thinks the family is IOI....so I believe that about wraps up PD envolvement. YES!
Boss agree?
Me wants next question please....lol
-
LOL, a dog has a boss. I have to summarize the thread and will open a new one after that. Need to watch my program first :lol:
-
AIGT, you have a medical background. What can you say about this comment:
Okay I have a question about the involvement of the paramedics. I agree with others that Dr Cooper must be part of the hoax because she called the time of death at 2:26 - which fits with the numbers. She said at the prelim that she authorised the paramedics to call it earlier. If the paramedics are not in on the hoax how did she know that it was safe to tell them to call the death and they wouldn’t do it?
-
My thought is that Murray had all over-riding authority and even if another doctor said to call , he was in charge. So she did not assume
"control" until whatever arrived at UCLA.
Are the para's safe for not doing it. Yes. Safe regardless. Again even prelim testimony is for show imo. By her telling them to call it, gives credance to the para's prelim testimony as to " he was long gone"(parapharse). All scripted, with future events considered from all angles. To make it look real all stories have to match in order for it to become an afterthought. The drugs abuse and amount in body are a part of the story. Most knew or had heard of MJ's abuse so the story is more believable to John Q Public. No reason to question what was already the percieved perception. Since the FBI went with the elaborate way to do hoax, might as well "play the givens". As stated, much easier way(s) to do this without the show it was.
This happened to me last week on a code. Everyone knew the person wasn't coming back and out of 10 people only 1 said "keep going". The one being the doctor. Had he not been there "we" would of called it sooner.
As why/what Murray's real role in this began. to be continued....
-
Well Cooper probably knew Murray would not allow it. AIGT, do you think the paramedics asked Murray to prove to them he's a doctor? Or do you think they assumed he was because it was told?
I will summarize the thread and open a new one. What was the new topic again?
-
Hard to say, if they would ask providing they are not IOI. However doubtful they weren't. And also he could prove by showing his liscense. I carry mine in wallet but my wallet is in car. So no clue, but dont think it mattered or ever happened that way. Script, follow the script.....
That day or other IMO should be next.....If it was pre-staged or everything really happened on the 25th. IMO
-
Hard to say, if they would ask providing they are not IOI. However doubtful they weren't. And also he could prove by showing his liscense. I carry mine in wallet but my wallet is in car. So no clue, but dont think it mattered or ever happened that way. Script, follow the script.....
That day or other IMO should be next.....If it was pre-staged or everything really happened on the 25th. IMO
Oh yes, that was it.
What I mean is, forget about the hoax, would a paramedic ask that if a doctor is present or are they too occupied with the patient?
-
So...
Government agencies involved: FBI (team/sting), LAFD (Chief, paramedics?), LAPD (Chief, maybe one or two more), LA County Coroner (Chief coroner, who else?).
Also: Dr. Cooper from UCLA and most likely the COO of UCLA.
Where were we on the paramedics? All in? And how many from the coroner would be in?
We haven't discussed the DEA yet (also involved) and The Sheriff's dept (helicopter).
Who would like to take a shot and form a complete theory on this before I close the thread including at least two arguments why that agency must be involved.
-
The coroner usaually has 2 people do autopsy from what I know.
I really think paramedics are in for ease of making story believable. Still only looking at 6-8 people max IOI.
DEA- Not so sure. I do not remember their presence around the 25th or after. Maybe if MJ was in a deep drug/bad doctor ring thing, they may be IOI, but not sure they even had to be. They are the least likely to be needed and role hardest to interpet. Or in fact the very reason the hoax was done. To protect MJ from information he provided.
Sheriff would tie to PD. Dummy or double corpse they did not need to know just transport body. Even if they sneeked a peek, the double I suppose would maybe look like MJ, so nothing to doubt. Regardless of video of copter, they dont need to know but maybe the crew did, if MJ was really on copter. Which I doubt as It was too risky imo. Dummy or MJ they would IOI. Corpse NIOI.
Still the total is around 10ish. And those 10 would most likely feel in some way it was their "duty" to play along. Even if they know why the hoax had to be done or not.
-
corpse..NIOI...too funny
-
corpse..NIOI...too funny
BOW.....Bow....lol
-
the DEA that was said at first:
By LINDA DEUTSCH and THOMAS WATKINS, Associated Press Writers Linda Deutsch And Thomas Watkins, Associated Press Writers – Fri Jul 3, 12:38 am ET
LOS ANGELES – The investigation of Michael Jackson’s death is widening as questions intensify about the drugs he took, the doctors who provided them and the actions of police.
Why didn’t police seal the mansion where he had been living? Why were moving vans seen at the home, and were any items removed before police wrapped up their search? Why didn’t they get immediate search warrants? Why did they tow away a doctor’s car right after the death but not declare the home a crime scene?
Los Angeles police say proper procedures were followed based on the circumstances officers encountered when they were called to the home at 12:21 p.m. on June 25. A doctor was attending to Jackson and stayed with him when he was placed in an ambulance at 1:07 p.m. There was no sign of foul play.
Others say police should have assumed it was possible a crime occurred and taken precautions to ensure the scene was not disrupted so evidence wasn’t lost or tainted.
“If I was the chief detective on the case, I would have said, ‘We don’t know what’s going on. We should seal the scene,’” said defense attorney Harland Braun, who has represented celebrities including Robert Blake, Roseanne and Gary Busey. “You always have to think of the worst-case scenario and you have to think fast. I would have sealed the scene just because it was Michael Jackson.”
Whether the Jackson probe turns into a criminal investigation hinges on what evidence emerges involving the drugs. Charges could be brought if authorities determine Jackson had been overly prescribed medications, if he had been given drugs inappropriate for his medical needs, or if doctors knowingly prescribed Jackson medications under an assumed name.
It’s still not known what caused Jackson’s death at age 50. The pop star went into cardiac arrest in his bedroom and his personal physician, Dr. Conrad Murray, performed CPR while an ambulance was called, according to Murray’s lawyers. Murray has spoken to police and authorities say he is not a suspect, though his actions have come under scrutiny because his own lawyers acknowledge it may have taken up to a half-hour for an ambulance to be summoned.
An autopsy was conducted but results are not expected for several weeks. The Jackson family had a second autopsy performed and those results also are pending.
On Wednesday, The Associated Press learned Los Angeles police asked the Drug Enforcement Administration to assist in the investigation.
DEA agents participated in the investigation of the 2007 overdose death of Anna Nicole Smith at a Florida hotel. California Attorney General Jerry Brown investigated her former boyfriend and two of her doctors.
Brown handed the investigation over to the Los Angeles district attorney’s office, which filed charges of conspiring to provide Smith with prescription drugs.
Brown said the suspects broke the law because Smith was a “known addict.” The former boyfriend and doctors denied the charges.
The DEA also probed whether painkillers found in actor Heath Ledger‘s system after his death last year were obtained illegally. Federal prosecutors did not charge anyone.
Jean Rosenbluth, a University of Southern California law professor, said the agency’s involvement in the Jackson case suggests authorities are looking into whether drugs came from out of state. Murray lives in Las Vegas and is licensed to practice in Texas, Nevada and California.
Federal drug regulations include controls over whether and how frequently a doctor can write prescriptions over the phone, and DEA agents could be looking to see if these rules were broken, Rosenbluth said.
“You can’t just get on the phone and continue to prescribe something for someone without having seen them for a long period of time,” she said.
Jackson had a well-known history of using prescription medications, especially painkillers. Following his death, Cherilyn Lee, a registered nurse who had worked for Jackson, told the AP she repeatedly rejected his demands for the drug Diprivan, also known as Propofol. It’s a potent anesthetic used in operating rooms and it would be highly unusual to have it in a private home.
Uri Geller, a former Jackson confidant, said he tried to keep Jackson from abusing painkillers and other prescription drugs, but others in the singer’s circle kept him supplied.
“When Michael asked for something, he got it,” Geller said in a telephone interview from his suburban London home.
Jackson had multiple doctors and many others like Geller who came in and out of his life. Which people are being interviewed by police is unclear because the LAPD has said virtually nothing about the probe.
“I am not going to make any comments on the investigation,” Commander Patrick Gannon, the designated police spokesman on the Jackson case, said by e-mail Thursday.
Any evidence would be turned over to the district attorney’s office, which has final say on criminal charges.
One of the key questions is why it took four days for police to issue a search warrant and remove medications from Jackson’s home.
Although the home wasn’t declared a crime scene, police did tow Murray’s car the evening of the death to look for potential evidence.
Vernon J. Geberth, former commanding officer of the Bronx Homicide Task force in New York, said police should have known they were dealing with an extraordinary situation.
“If it’s a high-profile person, you have to do more than you would do ordinarily,” he said.
Still, Geberth, who now acts as a private forensic consultant, said he believes the LAPD acted appropriately.
“Having a doctor present altered the equation. It was not a homicide scene. It was an emergency medical scene,” he said.
Police spokesman Lt. John Romero declined to comment when asked if the LAPD was reviewing its handling of the investigation.
Rosenbluth said if the case ends up as a criminal prosecution, any defense attorney would seize on the LAPD’s failure to immediately seal Jackson’s home.
“If you can get even one juror think, I don’t know, maybe somebody fiddled with the medicine before the police came in and collected it, that’s reasonable doubt,” she said. “All that the defense attorney needs is one juror.”
-
damm paula your an enclopedia(sp)!!!
Oh souza missed other question....
Considering the "scene", IV pole, meds, etc I dont think they would of questioned if he was a real doc, it was probably assumed. IF....
But I honestly do not know. Maybe he told them "he slept at a holiday inn last night", and that's all the needed.
-
AllInGoodTime wrote:
damm paula your an enclopedia(sp)!!!
:lol:
-
Paramedics, all IOI because:
1. the pic wouldn't match the scene and that's a risk to have out there
2. if any of the paramedics are IOI then all must be because the 911 call's validity is directly linked to this. If the 911 call is real, a real emergency paramedic team would be summoned to the address. It would be tricky to coordinate ensuring that the team that the FBI agents were working on was the team dispatched to the call... unless the 911 dispatch was also IOI, in which case at that point, why bother having any of the paramedics NIOI. Make sense?
UCLA Dr. Cooper, IOI because:
1. called time of death
2. at least one person at UCLA had to be IOI, just to usher MJs entourage through it and then out of it with complete privacy. This person had to be a senior staff member, such as a doctor.
3. signed the DC
and after that i'm brain dead. horse show weekend so i'll be on less sleep and more work mode through sunday.
-
FBI---
No way the coordination needed could be done alone.
Has A WPP that is used often.
Can allow/overide any of the future events and set-up trials, reports etc.
Will put you in an Alaskan jail cell if you don't agree...err wrong thread....LOL
LACO-
Prepared and provided autopsy report
Provided a total incompetent report at that.
Could not get Name right
Limited number of staff needed to know
And "look mom I;m on TV!'
-
LOL ..just me or do any of guys care about any other threads atm? This is too engaging and I want to go forward. And no life atm...lol
-
This one will quickly get more interesting as time passes.
Alaskan jail cell is a relevant argument.
FBI, additional evidence, of course, the 333 pages of files on MJ released 12/21.
LAPD, IOI because,
1. Conducted investigation into Murray and MJs death and surely they would have discovered as we have that he isn't dead.
2. Impounded Murray's car on 6/25 (and now reportedly viewed the security tapes on 6/25 too) but didn't make the house a crime scene until 6/28.
3. Did not find drugs and other pieces of incriminating evidence against Dr. Murray until he pointed it out to them which launched a second search of Carrolwood (wow--->just realized... just like Neverland), and they admitted it.
-
The DEA and the Las Vegas Police acted in a raid on the house of Murray, is that the protocol, the police came with the DEA in these cases :?:
[youtube:11h4rg04]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWiwGWsmscY&NR=1[/youtube:11h4rg04]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWiwGWsmscY&NR=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWiwGWsmscY&NR=1)
-
We must remember this news a little curious
Michael Jackson's family told police about drugs
By team Celestrellas posted Aug 28th 2009 12: 53 AM
(AP) - officers who searched the residence of Michael Jackson after his death acted on information from family members who said to have found a bag of heroin in his bedroom, but someone familiar with the subsequent reviews said that it was not of that drug.
However, they discovered several other drugs, including marijuana, the generic form of Valium and other sedatives. A detective also pointed out that Jackson's body had signs of injections.
The revelation was made in an affidavit in support of the order of raids carried out on 26 June, three days before any previously reported review of Jackson rented residence in Bel-Air.
Two court orders were given out on Thursday after several news media, including The Associated Press, requested that the contents of four orders of RAID is revealed to which gave fulfilment of the Los Angeles Police detectives in the early days of the investigation into the death of Jackson. The judge ordered that two orders continue sealed.
Widespread RAID orders provide an idea of the way in which police conducted their research immediately after Jackson's death. The court order which was complied in his rented mansion in Bel-Air day died is identified as "PC 187", the criminal key in California to identify a homicide, classified as "probable crime" box.
This order States that relatives said an officer from the coroner who "had found a quantity of heroin in a bag in the bedroom of the deceased", although the experts dropped the claim immediately. The person who gave statements does not have permission to talk to the news media and asked to remain anonymous.
Initially the detectives also reported the car of Dr. Conrad Murray, the personal doctor who was with Jackson when he died.
Within two months, the researchers came to establish that Murray was the central character in an investigation for murder. Detectives believe that it was negligent to administer the powerful anesthetic propofol and other sedatives to Jackson, and that these drugs caused death to the singer.
The coroner has not revealed officially the result of the autopsy but a u.s official, who asked to stay anonymous because the investigation continues, told the AP that his death has been considered as murder. Journalist Thomas Watkins of The Associated Press contributed to this information
http://entretenimiento.aollatino.com/20 ... l-jackson/ (http://entretenimiento.aollatino.com/2009/08/28/drogas-casa-michael-jackson/)
-
LAPD Blog
Scribed by Houdini's Ghost on Sunday, March 7, 2010
/ Comments: (0)
June 26, 2009
Los Angeles Police Department Statement on the Death of Michael Jackson
Los Angeles: The Los Angeles Police Department has responded to the Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical Center and a private residence in West Los Angeles as a result of the death of Michael Jackson.
Michael Jackson was transported by Los Angeles Fire Department rescue ambulance from his residence to the hospital on June 25, 2009 at about 1 p.m.
As in all cases of undetermined death the Police Department will investigate this occurrence and the Los Angeles County Coroner’s office will determine the cause of death.
Permalink
Michael Jackson Update
Los Angeles: On June 27, 2009, Dr. Conrad Murray, the physician who was with Michael Jackson at the time of his collapse, voluntarily contacted the Los Angeles Police Department. Detectives assigned to Robbery-Homicide Division met with Dr. Murray and conducted an extensive interview. Dr. Murray was cooperative and provided information which will aid the investigation.
Permalink
February 09, 2010
Michael Jackson Death Investigation Update
Los Angeles: With the filing of Criminal Charges against Dr. Conrad Murray, the Michael Jackson Death Investigation has now moved to the criminal prosecution phase.
"While the Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD) has been the primary investigative agency in this case, we could not have concluded our investigation without the commitment and expertise and assistance of agencies from all levels of law enforcement, including local, state and federal," said LAPD Chief Charlie Beck. “The investigation into the death of Michael Jackson was conducted in a professional manner and was comprehensive and thorough.”
For more information, contact LAPD Media Relations Section at 213-486-5910.
""including local, state and federal""
-
Feds, state and local police are a lot of people. If they are only involved in investigating dirty doctors and pharmacies supplying deep meds , they wouldn't have to know about the hoax. Just be doing their job. Assigned their task, then report findings back to superior. Chain of command.
-
FBI, LAPD, DEA?
-
... And if this is not a drug problem, if it is otherwise,.. the mafia', if the life of Michael was really in danger?
-
....crickets cripping...must move on......lol
-
I thought about it that declassified FBI files after the "death" is precisely the Frank Paul Gambino investigation of death threats to Michael and Janet and to Bush. The other files are invstigación Documents in support of the LAPD in their investigation in cases of child abuse. As the FBI states, found no evidence of anything after years of research.
It is strange that the pharmacy has three different directions .... other doctors are being investigated?
-
I made a post during the pic TS thing about if there was aa way to see doctors that got busted in last couple years and seeing if MJ had gone to any....would be a nice connect the dots to a possible "reason". Nothing came of it and I have no clue where/how to search that.
-
Souza threw out a great theory that kind of turned things on their head for me re: the events of 6/25/09: Nothing went to UCLA on 6/25/09, not even an ambulance... especially in regards to developments we have made here and on the TIAI threads, it's exciting.
I think we should start a new discussion on that theory, see what others here think about it, and start testing it big time.
-
I reread the theory of Souza, ... Please read this link and see what they say about Murray
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=18868&p=325683#p325683 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=18868&p=325683#p325683)
-
^^ Murray a police cardiologist? Say what? Says who?
I would need serious evidence to back up that allegation. I'm not even sure there is such a thing as a "police cardiologist".
-
I do not think that
-
NOTE: THE 3 way theory does NOT stipulate that ONLY 3 people (Michael, Murray, and the coronor) are involved and "in on it", it simply states that only these three people are NECESSARY to complete the physical stage of the hoax. Any persons added, or made aware of the hoax after that are simply ELECTIVE.
of course the FBI
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=5382&start=0 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=5382&start=0)
-
Souza threw out a great theory that kind of turned things on their head for me re: the events of 6/25/09: Nothing went to UCLA on 6/25/09, not even an ambulance... especially in regards to developments we have made here and on the TIAI threads, it's exciting.
I think we should start a new discussion on that theory, see what others here think about it, and start testing it big time.
Here it is, I just copied the comments from the other thread. I think it's the most logical scenario. There is NO proof that there was an ambulance at all on that day.
But, honestly, do we have to agree? And what does agreeing get us? Even if we attain answers that TS wants us to find, what do we get?? I think there are tons of reasons for doing all this, but I doubt that we'll ever agree. That's why God made us all different. To be ourselves. Besides, it won't bring Michael back sooner, and what if when we get close to agreeing or figuring things out, he changes them? HUMMM :D
Well, the straight forward answer is that it gets us further progress in the game TS initiated that we agreed to play when we started following this thread.
When I say "game" I mean figuratively.
But 'agreeing' on something doesn't make it the truth - most of the world 'agrees' that MJ is dead! I don't think TS is waiting for us to 'agree'.
I agree (LOL).
Has TS ever said something plain out about the hoax? No. Will he? Nah, don't think so. In the end, did he tell us that the picture was photoshopped? No. He said most likely, but he didn't confirm it. I think the purpose of this 'game' is to let us present different theories, without skipping a possibility.
I have another possibility that may sound strange, but could be another possibility: there was no ambulance at all. What I still think is weird as hell is that there is only ONE video that shows the ambulance coming out of the gates, and no pictures besides the famous NPG pic. There was a tour bus full of people, people on a tour bus have cameras with them. There is a guy filming the ambulance at the beginning of this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuXRaJFdmKU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuXRaJFdmKU) and that close to the concerts, with Mike rehearsing daily, there should have been paparazzi and fans outside the house, but I don't see them. If you freeze the video at certain points where it captures the street, there is no one, besides some fire fighters and a car. And all we've got is that HollywoodTV video and Ben's famous picture. That house was rented weeks before TMZ published it on December 22, 2008: http://www.tmz.com/2008/12/22/michael-j ... -new-crib/ (http://www.tmz.com/2008/12/22/michael-jacksons-sleeping-in-a-new-crib/) so in the weeks before no one would have bothered to be around that house. It would also explain why the Christmas stuff was on the gates and the trash was outside. All you have to do in that case is make sure that fans or paps would be removed from the area on June 25 for a few minutes, so that no one can say that they have been there all morning and afternoon and never saw an ambulance. That would mean the picture of the ambulance arriving at UCLA was staged as well, which I believe anyway. Other media outlets only began reporting after he allegedly arrived at the hospital and the timeline is fucked up anyway. According to the LATimes on June 25, he died at 3:15 pm. No one knew that day what they were reporting and who the source was. It was a mess, I remember watching The Situation Room on CNN and reports were messy as hell. They didn't have a clue.
At arriving at UCLA, you close the department, set of the fire alarm and only dr. Cooper has to know, plus one or two bobos from UCLA. In this scenario the following people need to be in the know:
Staff at the house and since I think there weren't many people at the house (we have not heard all those fired staff members after June 25, probably simply because they never exsisted). In other words: Kai Chase, Murray and the bodyguards. The guy who took the 911 call, which must have known it was a fake call and that is probably why he hang up, to be able to pick up real calls. Staff driving ambulance 71 that day and the other uhhmm day, key people from LAPD/LAFD and the FBI, Dr. Cooper and one or two people at UCLA and the coroner. And of course some media: Harvey, Ben Evenstad and probably another freelance pap/undercover FBI agent who is providing media outlets with pictures and video footage.
Think about it, it would be the best to do. Wrap everything up before it happens, just to be sure it will all go well. All that had to be done that day was make the call at the right time, clear the street for a while so no paps and fans would be near the house to notice nothing happened, let the fire alarm go off at the right time at UCLA and send a distraction heli to the coroner. All you need to make it look like it actually happened is some video footage and pictures, they don't have to be made on June 25.
And then we have tour bus footage. Could be an elaborate plant full of actors/actresses, but then that's a lot of people in on it.
3 scenarios besides it being a real tour bus with real tourists on June 25 (in that case: where the F are the pictures and videos from the tourists??):
- There was no ambulance on June 25, they shot it in December 2008 so people in the bus didn't bother to make a picture because they didn't know MJ lived there. In that case one would expect though that some of the tourists might have recognized themselves yet we haven't heard from any of them saying it was not on June 25.
- It wasn't recorded on June 25, but in December and the people in the tour bus are not real tourists but FBI agents.
- It was really on June 25 but the tourists were FBI agents and that is why they never made pictures.
Too many people to be agents? Just watch Breach, where there were 50 agents working on the sting against the mole in the FBI and this movie was based on a real sting. 50 agents would also mean you have 50 potential actors for this movie.
Okay, I changed my mind completely. I think it was MJ on the stretcher in the ambulance and at the hospital, sitting up. The reason why I think so is because I think June 25 never happened. It was ALL an illusion. No entrapment if it never happened. All there was created, was an opportunity.
I have always found it strange that they wrapped up the rehearsals so close to the death date. That seems a tight deadline for a control freak like MJ. He wants everything perfect right? What if something was NOT recorded the way he wanted? There would have been no opportunity to reshoot. Never made sense to me. Unless of course, he fooled US as well, and TII was shot earlier with ADDITIONAL SCENES and June 25 simply never happened.
I might go slightly off topic here, but I have to to explain my point.
In the tourbus video there is something weird that chappie pointed out to me on the phone. At the end there is this lady on the corner of the street that is on the phone: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9pd4a ... ce-de_news (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9pd4a_michael-jackson-depart-ambulance-de_news). Someone on the bus mentions that she is a big MJ fan. So WHY is she there? The ambulance has been in the house for ages, with the fire truck outside. Being a big MJ fan, she must have known it was Michael's house, so why didn't she go there to check out what happened? Apparently she also didn't call other fans, because the street is empty. No fans, no paparazzi, no nothing. In the video below Ben mentions that it was very quiet that day:
[youtube:212kj5ut]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2_421PgyJw[/youtube:212kj5ut]
2 female fans, 2 autograph collectors and '4 of us' (NPG). First of all, the ambulance had been there for 40!!! minutes, yet no other fan showed up to check out what happened. There were 2 fans there, plus the one on the corner of the street, but apparently they didn't notify other fans that something was going on. Cars must have been passing by and tour busses came on and off according to Ben. Since when can something happen UNNOTIFIED for 40 minutes at MJ's house that has ambulances and firetrucks involved? The most hunted man on the planet, yet that ambulance can stay there for 40 minutes without attracting zillions of fans and paparazzi? Okay...
Also notice that the only paps on the scene were from the NPG. That means the HollywoodTV video ALSO comes from Ben et al. On HollywoodTV's website it says: "Hollywood.TV obtained video of Michael Jackson as he was rushed to UCLA Medical Center" while they say about another video: "Hollywood.TV was able to confirm that Britney Spears had suffered a mental breakdown and was being rushed to the hospital. Hollywood.TV was on the spot and shot the only video of the pop star on a stretcher." This tells me that someone either sold or sent them the video and that they did not shoot it themselves. So this means to me that not only the ambulance picture was staged, but also the video. I mentioned it earlier in the thread, but I hadn't thought it through yet. It makes sense.
Possible scenario:
Spring/Summer 2008: The video of the ambulance was shot with MJ himself in it. They shoot the video at the house and at the hospital, but not in between. They followed that ambulance again right before June 25, because advertisements along the road most likely had changed within the year, or any other stuff that might show it would be recent. They follow the ambulance the whole way, yet we never see them arriving. We only have a video where the ambulance is already parked there. They make the pictures with the jackets and the MJ sitting up, and done, wrapped up for the day. Or maybe they needed more days, because I read somewhere on this thread that the ambulance was seen more often in that street.
Ben also mentioned that a lot of staff was leaving. Could be any day, because the videos below are BOTH clearly cut. No LAFD seen anywhere in these shots and Ben said they were there every day. So when were the shots of the staff taken? The other day? So that staff, or whoever they are, could have left the day before or the day after. And yes, they might have recognized themselves on one of the vids, IF they have seen these, but they must have known Ben was there EVERY day and probably thought he messed up the editing. Not important anyway and even IF they thought it was strange, they would only suspect something going on, like we do.
[youtube:212kj5ut]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2_421PgyJw[/youtube:212kj5ut]
[youtube:212kj5ut]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXiLROMZaqI[/youtube:212kj5ut]
On June 25, all they had to do was block the street one way or another to make sure that there was no possibility that someone was around the house the whole day, to know nothing ever happened. There are many ways they could have accompolished that. And some people had to be in the house to call 911 at the right time and provide background noise. But actually that could have been recorded too. If LAFD is in on it, they could have simply 'created' that emergency screen. If it had to be in the records, they probably did really call 911 at 12:21, but the dispatcher must have been in on it since he hangs up after 2 minutes already, while the paramedics hadn't even arrived (probably because they never would arrive). Risky because another dispatchet could have taken the call? I don't know, they probably have ways for that, or something like a direct line or disconnecting the other phones for 3 seconds or so.
Step further, at the hospital, the fire alarm goes off. People are evacuated and therefore no one sees that nothing ever arrived. At least not the famous MJ ambulance, because ambulances arrive there multiple times a day. Department closed, Dr. Cooper has a cup of coffee and is on the phone with someone to discuss the details one more time, before she pronounces 'MJ AIR' dead at 2:26 pm. Helicopter 'decides' to make a test flight to the coroner, or bring stuff or whatever and Joe Jackson (or an 'anonymous source') tips CNN that MJ's body will be transported by helicopter to the coroner.
In on it:
LAFD firestation 71 (Chief and the paramedics involved)
NPG
UCLA Dr. Cooper and COO
Bodyguards
Murray, whoever he is
Kai Chase (only staff member present)
Coroner
Of course more are in, but this is just for those few hours.
Helicopter staff might just have been told to let the media think they followed MJ for safety reasons
As for the tour bus, Iaybe the tourbus was staged and full of FBI agents/friends involved atc. There weren't that many in that bus, so that could be possible.
Another possibility is that it is a real tour bus and that only one of the people was in on it and just took the right bus at the right time. If it would have been June 2008, it would not have been interesting enough for other people on the bus to tape it. They look, and we see no faces. They probably woul not recognize themselves, most definitely not if there is a year in between. If you weren't there, it can't be you. I know they talk about it being MJ's house, but that's just audio. I think I can at least name one person definitely 'in on it' who is quite good with audio. :lol: Again, why is the fan at the end of the street acting like nothing happened. Like: "Drive already and let me finish my phone call. I'll call you when I have time, don't be annoying."
So in summary: MJ on stretcher in abulance (so why not also MJ on ambulance pic?) and on stretcher at hospital (sitting up), but not on June 25, but the other uhhhm day. It's a hoax, it never happened. It's ALL an illusion. No one saw the ambulance that day, no one except Ben Evanstad et al. Yeah right!
You wrap up a movie before you screen it to make sure there are no mistakes that annoying hoaxers could notice. The plan needs to be perfect, waterproof. If the ambulance video was shot live on June 25, it could have been a busy paparazzi-day and Chris might not have gotten near the window to fake the picture and then the staged pic would be useless. Or another pap might have gotten lucky enough to shoot SOMETHING through the window. Not likely, but too risky. No risks at a well planned hoax like this, too much at stake.
TII must have been shot sooner too, I have always thought it was strange Timor left for LA in late 2008/early 2009 already. I think that when the auditions for the dancers were held, TII was already a wrap. But that's too far off topic.
Here is a challenge for you TS: Can you give at least 2 strong arguments that show me there was an ambulance at all on June 25, 2009?Until then, I think this could very well be the case. I don't think there is a scenario with less people involved.
It's a hoax, a magic trick, an illusion. It didn't happen on June 25, MJ AIR.
Although I have no problem at all if a real corpse was being used, there just are some things bothering me about it. The people that had to be fooled would be the public and the media. Since we haven't seen a body at all, the body was not used to fool us or the media. So the reason to use a real corpse has to be to fool the paramedics and the doctors at UCLA and I have trouble believing they would be fooled enough to work on that body for 2 hours while they must have seen (as also testified by both paramedics and doctor Cooper) that it was dead already. If the doctors (I guess there were just two at the prelim to testify, Cooper and Nguyen) would not be in and you deliver a dead corpse at the hospital, the chance of them pronouncing the patient dead within 5 to 10 minutes would be big. Doctors are no morons, they know a dead person when they see one. The chance that the time of death would NOT fit into the well planned numerology would therefore be WAY bigger, than that they would call it at 2:26 pm, as planned. You could say they did call it earlier and the FBI changed the TOD on the papers, but in that case we have a doctor who is being kept out of the loop, has to testify and there is a very likely possibility that that subject would come up, since the doctor is not going to lie about that just like that. If she would, it would mean that the FBI has asked her to go along with it for whatever reason, and if they had to do that anyway, why not from the start? So no need to fool the docs.
If a real corpse was used, there are two options:
1-Person died before June 25 and was preserved (donor body)
2-Person died on June 25 in the morning, before 911 was called (Assisted suicide/pulling plug out of life support machines)
In both cases the paramedics AND the doctors at UCLA must have seen that the person was dead, as in really dead without chances of reviving. Rigor Mortis and Algor Mortis are not the only stages of death, there is more to determine whether someone is dead and for how long. Algor Mortis (cooling of the corpse) can be manipulated with the heated room, yet that same heated room will make Rigor Mortis set in quicker, even if a body was cooled first. The condition of the patient is also important for the onset of Rigor Mortis. A 'sick, old, frail' man will show rigor way sooner than a person with more body fat and muscles. So by heating the room they might have prevented Algor Mortis, but they sped up the Rigor Mortis. You can 'break' rigor, but not on the eyelids, you will damage the tissue visibly.
This is an excerpt of an article published in August 2009:
Dr Steven Hoefflin, a close friend of Jackson and speaking with the permission of his mother Katherine, confirmed details of the paperwork.
"I've spoken to a chief in the fire department who told me Michael was dead when they arrived," Dr Hoefflin, 63, told News of the World.
"He had no pulse and was not breathing. They gave him an electro-cardiogram but he was flatlined.
"They say he even had lividity, which meant the blood had sunk to the back, indicating his heart had stopped a couple of hours earlier.
"This is the most important aspect of the report as it means he must have been dead for over an hour, probably longer."
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/entertainme ... 5762363443 (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/entertainment/paramedic-report-disputes-physicians-account-on-michael-jacksons-death/story-e6frf96f-1225762363443)
Lividity is a stage of death that is very hard to prevent, without draining the blood from the body. We know they didn't do that, because the hospital allegedly took samples. Lividity sets in 1 to 2 hours after death and that means that the patient is as dead as can be and that there is NO USE in CPR or anything else.
Seneff testified during the prelim that the patient's eyes and mouth were open, eyes-dilated and dry, his hands and feet were blue.
He was cold to touch.
And Blount testified that he observed that the patient’s eyes were “blown” (large and unresponsive to light).
Let's say that the paramedics would not be in on it, and they did find a person like this. No pulse, not breathing, cold, showed lividity, eyes dried and open (which will cause Tache Noire, a black stripe in the eyes), hands and feet were blue (Cyanosis, not enough oxygen in the blood). The above indicates that the person is not only clinically dead, but also brain dead. In other words: even IF they would be able to get the organs and heart to work again (sometimes people survive clinical death), the person would never be able to lift his own finger or open his eyes.
Brain injury is likely if cardiac arrest goes untreated for more than five minutes. For the best chance of survival and neurological recovery, immediate and decisive treatment is imperative.
(Wiki)
Murray allegedly performed CPR on the bed with one hand. We can assume by the reports that immediate and decisive treatment was not given in the first 5 (most likely even more) minutes.
So if the paramedics would not be in, it is only logical that they wanted to call it and transport him to the coroner. But Murray could have overruled them and could have gotten as far as the emergency room. But over there the ER doctor is the higher authority. If a patient like that would arrive (CLEARLY dead as a doornail), there is no way a doctor keeps trying to revive that person for over an hour. Reviving a patient like that would be a medical miracle, having the patient functioning again would be simply IMPOSSIBLE). The doctor would have called it right away and not wait until 2:26 pm.
As for the bodyguards not in it: no way. They were in the room with the patient and Murray and called 911. They worked for Michael and bodyguards have extreme eye for detail. They need that to be on guard 24/7. Yet they wouldn't recognize the person they have been protecting all this time? I don't buy that at all.
So this is what is bothering me regarding the corpse. A doctor will not perform CPR on a clearly dead person. So either they are not in and called it way earlier and now lie all of a sudden about that, meaning they were read-in later, what doesn't make sense if you could do that right away, or they are in on it, which seems to make more sense.
So if the bodyguards are in, and the doctors are in when a real body is used, it would mean the same amount of people involved as when there would have been no ambulance that day, except for the two paramedics mentioned above. Using a real corpse for just two paramedics who can be easily silenced does not make sense to me.
Actually with nothing happening at all on June 25, less people would be in, since there would not be an emergency and only the two docs testifying have to be in. The emergency room could have been empty. Nothing to see, nothing to risk. The use of a real corpse would be useless, unless there would be another good reason to use a real body, but I can't think of one.
So if anyone can give me another reason for the use of a real corpse, please do so. Is what I stated above enough for a jury in a court of law? Maybe not, but it's enough for reasonable doubt. And that's all you need.
So I am back at my previous question: was there an ambulance at all on June 25?[/color]
-
If nothing happens... then there is nothing to see... and there is nothing to tell either.
When it comes to people at UCLA or in that tour bus or outside the ER entrance or at the coroner office, no one would be able to talk about what they saw on 6/25 because there was nothing to see.
(I really loved how TMZ shows up with a photo from that tour bus at this late date.)
So I'm down with this and it's fitting in logically BUT...
It did have to be coordinated with some real live events:
--The fire alarm was pulled by someone at UCLA on 6/25 right about the time that the ambulance would have arrived.
--Jackson Family members did make appearances at UCLA on 6/25 at just the right time.
--There was a helicopter that was filmed on live TV transporting something that resembled a body. Tohme Tohme did attend this helicopter on rooftop at UCLA.
That's all I can think of that must have happened live.
So I guess Tohme isn't such a shady, possibly bad guy after all. He's IOI, he has to be, he's at UCLA on 6/25 with... nothing. Perhaps it was his job to chaperone the "body" in the helicopter scene and lurk around Jermaine's press conference. Goodbye 'circle of bad insiders' theory.
-
Katherine arriving at UCLA is a car with the permission of invalid
(http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/fp/Jackson+Family+Arriving+UCLA+Medical+Center+6y-2ORgcKxzl.jpg)
(http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/fp/Jackson+Family+Arriving+UCLA+Medical+Center+NBz6pIi3h-Il.jpg)
Why this woman and Katherine have a visitors pass before arriving?
(http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/fp/Jackson+Family+Arriving+UCLA+Medical+Center+JxB28gZe13Ml.jpg)
(http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/fp/Jackson+Family+Arriving+UCLA+Medical+Center+3LEaIypwjfQl.jpg)
(http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/fp/Jackson+Family+Arriving+UCLA+Medical+Center+9918WI7FOqzl.jpg)
What is that role or decal that is to the left of the windshield?
-
Souza the theory I could add this paragraph of the theory of 3-way on the acting of Murray:
One Doctor would be needed to get Michael to the hospital because he MUST be pronounced dead at a hospital. Michael may NOT be pronounced dead anywhere else as more complicated legalities are involved in death occuring outside of a medical facility. The "scene" must be sealed, police must be brought in, pictures must be taken and detectives must be involved immediatly. This is entirely too many witnesses to attempt to deal with. This scenario is unacceptable. No. Michael MUST be taken to a hospital where the situation can be controlled, and "death" becomes a simple matter of paperwork. Dr. Murray plays this role. Remember, Murray "overrules" the paramedics at the scene and accompanies Michael's "body" to UCLA. It can safely be assumed (in leu of any information at all) that Murray conceivably could have, being a medical professional and attending physician, retained specific priviliges that allowed him to control situations once at UCLA as well. It is very very conceivable that Murray could have gotten Michael into that "closed off wing" of UCLA ER and simply out the back door, then he could have easily turned it into a "he said/she said situation from there, and no one would be the wiser, simply following orders and passing along information that they have been told.
-
(http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/16/ucla02650red.gif)
..... Can someone please explain this photo :roll:
-
hey guys, sorry had to work last 2 days. Tho I know TS has "returned" and the attention seems to have gone there, I am still eager to continue our pursuit. Like it was said, as much as TS gives us "hope", in alot of ways it feels like a game. In our short time time doing this, I feel we have come up with some good stuff that may/or maynot lead us closer to that which we seek. As, we take TS as "informant" and I see what he trying to do, I know we are running out of time to this before trial and honestly this "group" would of figured out alot of the details without his "teasers". I just hope we move on to next part soonish.(/cough souza) However....
Wow paula nice pic/post. I see what your seeing. The face and glasses. Ya looks umm familiar. But I am also seeing that face continue with short hair after. MY QUESTION is at the ened the bodyguard holds the jacket up and someone comes out with jacket over their head....WHO/WHAT is that? Umm 3 ambo's right? I see 3 dark blue uniforms. 2 ambos in back and MJ so where/who/what is number 4? hmmmm......
Anyways...Just want to keep moving forward. Much to discuss. Clock is ticking. (MY THEORY) BAM is near. I want to gloat in the fact we figured it out because I know we will. Much love....AIGT
-
As I stated in my PM to ya'll, we are going in circles. This very thread is EXACTLY what I thought would happen. WE have come up with ever reason and valid ones as to who was IOI. WHICH WAS THE GOAL OF THIS. Ahhh heck, one too many beers, why should I even care anymore? It is what it is. Dead, Alive who knows. Guess it don't matter really. My wife thinks I am a fool and brings it up every chance she gets to anyone that doesn't already know I am a fool. Maybe I should listen to her.......................I told her if nothing "happens" by June 25th 2011, I will NEVER bring it up again. She wishes for that day.............................And I do to, at least it will be "over".
-
Since we have gone off topic I did want to ask this question at some point to each of you.
What/when/event is when each of you first thought this whole thing was BS?
For me, it was the Jermaine pressor. Then came video study from everything from reflectors to tire differences to "timing" up the different "eyewitness videos" and that they didn't match side by side.
You?
-
@AllinGoodTime...I feel for your situation with your missus. That is something most of us here have experienced. My husband believes MJ could be alive but doesn't see the need for me to spend so much time on here. Who'd think after 34 years he'd still be jealous of anything that takes my attention from him. The rolling of the eyes and jokes behind our backs comes with the territory. As for your question of what triggered the bullshit alarm, for me the memorial and the weirdness of it all. I seriously felt like the robot in Lost in Space...arms flailing yelling to anyone who would listen...warning... warning...something off here. Okay, late for work once again because of this site and my being on here too often. Back in 9 hours.
-
"Danger Will Robinson"
-
AllInGoodTime all this is not easy, if i also think that it would seem that we are going around in circles but is part of the research, it is not easy decipher the mind of a man like MJ ;)
-
what is happening here :?:
-
Hey guys. Wanted to stop by and say hello/goodbye. I have been reading the lastest TIAI posts and I am reminded to why I wanted to do this little project. I stated before, I am tired of the personal attacks against people, lack of critical thinking and "I'm right" attitudes as of late. And I can't read this crap anymore. I know what I feel/guess and this will all end ON JUNE 25th anyway. I will copy my post of what I think happened for you guys as this was where we were trying to go with this thread. For your own enjoyment purposes only...lol
The very first page of this thread and the first thing at least that gets ur attention is the FBI hat. Subliminal Clue? Dont know but fits.
From what I have been reading about the fake body and peoples opinions concerning is this. The main purpose of the fake was to lessen the actually number of "outsiders" that need to be in on the hoax while giving the opprtuinity to for the people who were/are involved credibility that the body was MJ's and for truthful testimony to be given during the trial. Fine.
Now.......In order for MJ alone to pull this hoax off, a fake body would be a must. Alone, this body is really the only way he could attempt to fool everyone involved he was really dead. Tho flawed, perhaps the paramedics and even the hospital and staff might have beLIEved it really was him. He really died. And they saw it with there own eyes. At a minimum 25 people would have interacted in some way with the fake body on the 25th. That to me is 25 ways/reasons the hoax could be discovered before it even really started. Amazingly, noone figured out it was a fake and it did make it to the coroner. And that is where it ends. The coroner would have figured out it was fake and MJ really does not have the power or connections to presuade him to help with his hoax no matter the reason. So with that in mind, we know MJ has planned for years in great detail to hoax his death. Years of thought down the drain in the first hours of the first day. He could not do this alone and not without help.
Enter FBI>>>Whatever MJ has gotten himself into that would warrant the FBI's help and participation remains to be seen. As to the great depth of the hoax and the amount of coordination needed from the FBI, as well as the FBI's willingness to accept and agree to the terms/way MJ wanted it, whatever it is must be gigantic. Thus the reason and the plan is put into action.
The FBI could of "killed" MJ off without a body. But that is not a good show nor add to the realism or confirm that MJ died. So the FBI provided a fake body. 3 paramedics, coroner and assistance along with a doctor and 4 staff, were "asked" to take part as a matter of "National Security". This brings our outside people informed to the hoax to 10. A controlled group, very possibly choosen and selected for this after careful screening. So for the show, the wheel the fake body into UCLA, straight to a predetermined area under heavy secruity and privacy. Each persons role defined, actions, statements planned as instructed to do so. MJ dies. The announcement made and to continue to embed that MJ did die, is again wheeled out the copter and off to the coroner. A real-time drama with actual proof MJ had died broadcast to the public to absorb and accept. MJ is dead, free and removed. And mission is accomplished.
However at the same time MJ dies, a new and interesting element is introduced with many implications to the future. But first,
Now, we have established that the ambo pic was staged and shopped. This is our first real evidence and first domino. Why evidence? It shows us that this was staged and planned. Now knowing MJ could not do this alone and needed help and recieved it from the FBI. This to now validates it is fake. Shows us it was planned and if planned needed help, if needed help the FBI did so. And the FBI does not fail. IF they want something to happen it does, the way the want it to. Executed to a T, again only proving the pic is fake as it was part of a bigger picture. Thus proof MJ lives. Which brings us to the plan. Seems like alot of extra fluff made-for-tv was involved in the hoax. They were much easier ways to get same result. MJ could of died of overdose/heart attack at home. NO TV special, no press, taken to hospital pronounced and perhaps a "real" death photo released to prove he had died. But that is not what happened. A set of surreal events transpired before the worlds eyes. Events which left no doubt that MJ had died. BUT>>>>
That new element? AS they loaded MJ into the copter, it was now we are introduced to a man who ran out the back door. Conrad Murray. First , let's analyze his role. Honestly, much like the other fluff in the plan, Murray's part in this is really not needed. The events the way they played out on the 25th could of happened the same way with or without him. It added some drama. But having a doctor present throughout the events did not change anything or any way things were planned. Again, not necessary tho. Or was it....
Now the hoax was success. MJ dead. World falls for it. IF MJ wanted peace/freedom or whatever the reason, he now had it. Except for the door that was left open for things to come. Murray. Basically, he was not needed for this to succeed but yet involved anyway. And left to be tried for a crime he did not commit. Most likely convicted. And yet, this truly makes no sense as why he must take the fall. But it does....The very momment he is introduced into this, he began to play what I believe was his main purpose. Now this hoax is not just about MJ but a new focal point in Murray. He is the distraction, decoy and element to the plan that enables new events to take place. AS the shock wore off and MJ faded, our man Murray was now front and center. Followed, photographed,disected his role is now exactly as it was planned. Just about the time MJ fades from our memories, suddenly Mr. Murray becomes relevant again. A new development or story surfaces to keep us interested. But is that all?
If MJ ever returns remains to be seen. If he does regardless some backlash will occur. 2 years ago he was a laughingstock and mocked, 2 months from now? OMG Bamsday is here! MJ reappears from his death, however the backlash is not what one might expect. He is a hero? huh? Our FBI boys inform us the great courage and dedication MJ has shown by sacrificing himself in such a way in order to help our nation do whatever it the heck he got himself into in the first place. A national alibi. MJ our hero!
Back to ol' Murray. The martar, the fallguy, the guy who soon will have the world at center stage. MJ likes center stage. Quite comfy there actually.(or not) Murray has endured and completed what is needed for the "last curtain call". The trial. His main purpose. Which is why is doesn't matter if witnesses tell the truth. Why stories dont match, and calls seem fake or bodies or whatever else. I believe the trial won't happen. Wasn't ever suppose to. MJ "got away" for good if that was the plan. But it wasn't, and the door is open waiting.........
So to close MJ must be in some big time stink. Alot went into this, and can only imagine what may have warranted this kind involvement. Even if MJ has feelings/issues over the past with FBI etc. Obviously he had no choice, or he is dead....The complexity of the hoax and it's nuiances,as we discussed before, lend creditibilty to Govt involvement. A much simplier way to "kill off" MJ could have been done, with less "loose ends" to cover. And as the world thinks MJ is dead, a simplier way would have the same effect in that the world would still think he is dead.
Also, it is most conveient(sp) the trial has been delayed. Fits the timeline better now anyway. Michael has no "escape" from the backlash of this hoax. And moreso if tax dollars are used for a fake trial. If he truly is alive, the time to be a hero is before the trial. No backlash, no scrutiny, no nothing. And for me now, if the trial happens and no return, I am done playing PI. When/if he does I'll be happy and read the book later. So TY all for your kind words and support. May our wishes come true, mostly for our own sanity. LOVE mj_bad/
-
iLOVEMJBeLIEve wrote:
And also I remember that Latoya is/was also a cop. I was watching Celebrity Big Brother UK 2009, and she was on the show six months before Michael "passed". She was asked by her housemates on the show about being a cop and she said that she has arressted like over 200 people and even has a badge . I was really surprised that she arrested that much people. My point is that since she is a cop at that time (don't know if she still is now), she does have connections to police and even the FBI. I believe that the hoax idea could have been suggested/help from Latoya and Michael together as well. Notice how since Michael's "death", she is one of the family members that strongly keeps stating that Michael was murdered but nothing else
viewtopic.php?f=121&t=19246&p=333888#p333888 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=121&t=19246&p=333888#p333888)
-
Sting Operations, false victim (Michael), false criminal (Murray), against whom?, Sneddon and fraudulent justice, doctors and drug abuse, a possible murder to steal the fortune (potential candidates: AEG, mafia...)... :?:
-
I'm thinking we should post all relevant info regarding illuminati;branca;sony ect. here and keep TS comments thread clean for final draft of pro-hoax debate.
We see illuminati relates down the line to sony and uri gellar--who brought in batshit bashir--who was instrumental in the 2005 trial coming about with the same players as sneddon involved once again.
So the question is when did MJ start to plan this hoax? Was it initially to be a movie, but the false allegations added to it's purpose?
Did the hoax become bigger and more far reaching after Mike set down the challenge with his panther dance with it's up yours illuminati symbology?
Did the PTB get very upset that Mr Jackson, a black man, had the audacity to buy the Beatles catalogue whose music and subliminal messages were instrumental in encouraging people to tune in turn on and drop out in the sixties, along with the use of LSD.
Could Murray court case be a hoax court [toys, gilda money in child maintenance case] while sting court is going on unreported behind the scenes [ Peter Lopez murder/suicide].
http://michaeljackson.ae/truth/SONY-thru-the-years.pdf
-
Yeah but we also see MJ bait the DA in Bashir with the scene with the Arviso kid and hand holding. He gave them the sound byte, he knew what he was saying "the most loving thing you can do is share your bed...[long GIANT edit-begging pause]... I sleep on the floor".
So he challenged them in Panther dance and then told them to come n' get him in Bashir. Why.
I know this is random but it's been on my mind and RK your post reminded me of it.
I think this hoax has been on the back burner for MJ's entire adult life, and has grown and morphed as needed over the years. There are many birds that can be killed with this one stone and now is the perfect time in his life to do it. They destroyed him, almost completely in 2003-2005, and a lesser man wouldn't have survived at all. What does he have to lose anymore?
-
RK wrote:
I'm thinking we should post all relevant info regarding illuminati;branca;sony ect. here and keep TS comments thread clean for final draft of pro-hoax debate.
I think it's a good idea
-
Mottola was replaced by Martin Bandier as sony's CEO, he who once bid for the beatle's catalogue when he had a company called Entertainment Co. Even though a 50 million deal was signed, MJ got the catalogue for 3 mill less.
Wonder if his resentment at losing out initially carried over to his new appointment at sony.
-
Bugga...edit time ran out as I was in the middle of my ramble....continuing on....
We know that the hoax timing was perfectly planned and executed to precision. Nothing left to random chance there. And there is also the fact that sometime in 2009, MJ was to get full ownership of his own masters.Hmm... so close, but not quite. Many a fan have put two and two together and are screaming murder, making a lot of flak for sony.
1/Is this an elaborately spun spiders web to trap sony at their own game
2/ Were they behind the attempts to discredit MJ and set him up and now the tables are turned on them
3/ Or are sony now okay since mottola's removal and are helping MJ with his hoax plan.
I have no need to question if Michael did out think them and survived. I would bet my own life that he's still with us. What I need to collate and digest in my understanding is on what side some of the pieces of the puzzle actually lie.
-
Someone at Sony has to be helping Michael. There's a lot of clues in the production and editing of the those songs, and the insert and cover of the new album that needed to be placed and quality control would be required. Prince's symbol got through, was perfectly "discovered" before printing, and removed on time. That's very well done and pretty crucial, that the cover was viewed publicly and the symbol had a chance to be discovered and so then removed, before any CDs were actually sold, how lucky! The movie, same story, TII had all sorts of strategic little tiny clues that had to be placed just right (keep-a-watchin at :18 of the trailer), you can't just leave these details to chance in someone else's hands. Having someone inside Sony is really needed because this project can't be risked by someone catching something at the last minute and changing it.
What if someone saw "always nice to sing with my brother" and decided it HAD to be an error and changed it to "brothers"? What if someone cropped out the hotel name on the HT handwritten lyrics pic because of size restrictions at final editing? I don't understand the business so perhaps my examples are poor, use your imagination. There are so many small nuances that we have almost all agreed were very carefully written into the script, it seems terribly risky to just send it all out from the estate and cross your fingers.
I also don't understand why Sony would want so badly to be rid of Michael, so as to get the catalog. Seems they are partners and work together to make a lot of money. I would imagine Michael might be an asset to Sony and not just for his brand, but also for his business sense. Who's to say they don't get along smashingly in the post Mottola years? It's complete speculation on my part but who knows. Sony did pay Michael a whole ton of money for all his old music. A record breaking ton of money. If they wanted the catalog I'm not sure they would have entered into any contract with the Estate, hoping it would bear financial burden considering the less then flattering method of demise (weirdo drug addict), and then subsequently offer to buy the catalog from the Estate.
-
Someone at Sony has to be helping Michael. There's a lot of clues in the production and editing of the those songs, and the insert and cover of the new album that needed to be placed and quality control would be required. Prince's symbol got through, was perfectly "discovered" before printing, and removed on time. That's very well done and pretty crucial, that the cover was viewed publicly and the symbol had a chance to be discovered and so then removed, before any CDs were actually sold, how lucky! The movie, same story, TII had all sorts of strategic little tiny clues that had to be placed just right (keep-a-watchin at :18 of the trailer), you can't just leave these details to chance in someone else's hands. Having someone inside Sony is really needed because this project can't be risked by someone catching something at the last minute and changing it.
What if someone saw "always nice to sing with my brother" and decided it HAD to be an error and changed it to "brothers"? What if someone cropped out the hotel name on the HT handwritten lyrics pic because of size restrictions at final editing? I don't understand the business so perhaps my examples are poor, use your imagination. There are so many small nuances that we have almost all agreed were very carefully written into the script, it seems terribly risky to just send it all out from the estate and cross your fingers.
I also don't understand why Sony would want so badly to be rid of Michael, so as to get the catalog. Seems they are partners and work together to make a lot of money. I would imagine Michael might be an asset to Sony and not just for his brand, but also for his business sense. Who's to say they don't get along smashingly in the post Mottola years? It's complete speculation on my part but who knows. Sony did pay Michael a whole ton of money for all his old music. A record breaking ton of money. If they wanted the catalog I'm not sure they would have entered into any contract with the Estate, hoping it would bear financial burden considering the less then flattering method of demise (weirdo drug addict), and then subsequently offer to buy the catalog from the Estate.
Interesting thoughts bec. This sounds pretty plausible and would explain all the last minute changes.
-
paula-c wrote:
Sting Operations, false victim (Michael), false criminal (Murray), against whom?, Sneddon and fraudulent justice, [hr:239iin8k]doctors and drug abuse, a possible murder to steal the fortune (potential candidates: AEG, mafia...)...
I think that change of opinion here:
[highlight=#ff0000:239iin8k]doctors and drug abuse[/highlight:239iin8k] errrr