Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators
Latest News => TMZ.com => Michael Jackson News => TMZ Articles => Topic started by: RK on June 06, 2013, 10:52:02 AM
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http://www.tmz.com/2013/06/06/marilyn-manson-paris-jackson-suicide-attempt-concert/
6/6/2013 8:15 AM PDT BY TMZ STAFF
MARILYN MANSON TO PARIS JACKSON
You're ALWAYS Welcome At My Shows
EXCLUSIVE
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2013/06/05/0605-marilyn-manson-paris-jackson-tmz-3.jpg)
Paris Jackson won't ever have to worry about missing another Marilyn Manson concert -- 'cause the goth rocker tells TMZ she'll get the VIP treatment whenever she wants to come to a show.
We broke the story ... Paris "threw a fit" hours before her suicide attempt when she was told she wasn't allowed to attend an MM show. We're told she ran into her room screaming and slammed the door.
After learning about the incident, Marilyn says he has a message for Paris -- "I hope you feel better. You will be on my guest list anytime you want."
Paris is currently being hospitalized after she took a meat cleaver to her arm and swallowed a bunch of pills early Wednesday morning.
Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2013/06/06/marilyn-manson-paris-jackson-suicide-attempt-concert/#ixzz2VS4dxTZR
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Might as well give as much punch as possible--lots of extremes!
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Ironic how Manson in the past has been blamed for youth suicide.
Still think this is all about asking some kind of a point. Or perhaps a distraction.
Hope we get to understand why
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http://www.tmz.com/2013/06/06/marilyn-manson-paris-jackson-suicide-attempt-concert/
6/6/2013 8:15 AM PDT BY TMZ STAFF
MARILYN MANSON TO PARIS JACKSON
You're ALWAYS Welcome At My Shows
EXCLUSIVE
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2013/06/05/0605-marilyn-manson-paris-jackson-tmz-3.jpg)
Paris Jackson won't ever have to worry about missing another Marilyn Manson concert -- 'cause the goth rocker tells TMZ she'll get the VIP treatment whenever she wants to come to a show.
We broke the story ... Paris "threw a fit" hours before her suicide attempt when she was told she wasn't allowed to attend an MM show. We're told she ran into her room screaming and slammed the door.
After learning about the incident, Marilyn says he has a message for Paris -- "I hope you feel better. You will be on my guest list anytime you want."
Paris is currently being hospitalized after she took a meat cleaver to her arm and swallowed a bunch of pills early Wednesday morning.
Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2013/06/06/marilyn-manson-paris-jackson-suicide-attempt-concert/#ixzz2VS4dxTZR
Marilyn Manson dedicates concert to Paris Jackson at Gibson Theatre :animal0017: :animal0017: :screaming-7365: :screaming-7365: :LolLolLolLol: !!!!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuIQ6hdugo8[/youtube]
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I wish my daddy was here... he understands me
Paris Jackson blasts family before suicide attempt
MICHAEL Jackson’s daughter attempted suicide following a vicious family row where she screamed: “I wish my daddy was here. He understands me.”
Paris, 15, cut her wrists and took an overdose of pills after accusing her guardians of not allowing her “to live my own life”.
They had banned the teen from a gig by shock rocker Marilyn Manson then barred her from the internet and sent her to her room after she “flipped”.
The family had earlier become increasingly concerned by her dark mood swings and suspected self-harming.
Paris has become obsessed with morbid musicians Kurt Cobain and Marilyn Manson, ditching her wholesome look for hacked hair and revealing clothes.
An insider said: “Paris feels that no one in her family ‘gets’ her any more and she feels isolated and alone.
“During the row on Tuesday night she said her father knew her better than anyone and knew what it was like growing up in the spotlight.”
Paris has been targeted by school bullies and web trolls who posted aggressive comments at her.
She was also due to testify in the Jacksons’ $40million legal battle against gig promoter AEG, who they blame for Jacko’s death in 2009.
Paris told family lawyers last month: “I think about him every day and cry.”
A source revealed: “Paris has been going through hell. We don’t think she wanted to take her life — we feel it was a cry for help.” But gran Katherine, 83, could now lose guardianship as child protection officers in California probe the incident. Biological mum Debbie Rowe, 54, could fight for custody.
Paris, who slashed her wrists with a cleaver and took painkillers, has already tried to break away by filing for “emancipation” — which would give her control of her life before the age of 18.
She was yesterday visited in UCLA hospital, where she is under 24-hour watch, by family including mum Debbie and aunt La Toya Jackson.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/4958706/paris-jackson-said-she-misses-dad-before-suicide-attempt.html
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I wish my daddy was here... he understands me
Paris Jackson blasts family before suicide attempt
MICHAEL Jackson’s daughter attempted suicide following a vicious family row where she screamed: “I wish my daddy was here. He understands me.”
Paris, 15, cut her wrists and took an overdose of pills after accusing her guardians of not allowing her “to live my own life”.
They had banned the teen from a gig by shock rocker Marilyn Manson then barred her from the internet and sent her to her room after she “flipped”.
The family had earlier become increasingly concerned by her dark mood swings and suspected self-harming.
Paris has become obsessed with morbid musicians Kurt Cobain and Marilyn Manson, ditching her wholesome look for hacked hair and revealing clothes.
An insider said: “Paris feels that no one in her family ‘gets’ her any more and she feels isolated and alone.
“During the row on Tuesday night she said her father knew her better than anyone and knew what it was like growing up in the spotlight.”
Paris has been targeted by school bullies and web trolls who posted aggressive comments at her.
She was also due to testify in the Jacksons’ $40million legal battle against gig promoter AEG, who they blame for Jacko’s death in 2009.
Paris told family lawyers last month: “I think about him every day and cry.”
A source revealed: “Paris has been going through hell. We don’t think she wanted to take her life — we feel it was a cry for help.” But gran Katherine, 83, could now lose guardianship as child protection officers in California probe the incident. Biological mum Debbie Rowe, 54, could fight for custody.
Paris, who slashed her wrists with a cleaver and took painkillers, has already tried to break away by filing for “emancipation” — which would give her control of her life before the age of 18.
She was yesterday visited in UCLA hospital, where she is under 24-hour watch, by family including mum Debbie and aunt La Toya Jackson.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/4958706/paris-jackson-said-she-misses-dad-before-suicide-attempt.html
well thank you (SweetsunsetwithMJ) for making us updated ... :bearhug:
but i'm really not buying it , I'm hardly believing in The TMZ articles , and we know the drill
if that happened TMZ will be the first to "Learn" , as for the Marilyn Manson gig Paris is way smarter than this
and yes it's very true that Gran Katherine may lose her guardianship and i think she will of course !
this was a Suicide attempt , not an easy thing to handle , and as for debbie i'm not sure she will fight for custody or not
because we already know that prince didn't want paris to spend time with her , then what about living with her !
MUCH L.O.V.E. Rouxie.
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You are welcome Rouxie, by the way I love your country "Egypt" :bearhug:
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MARILYN MANSON
Simulates Wrist Slashing
After Paris Song Dedication
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2013/06/07/0607-marilyn-manson-splash-knife-3.jpg)
Marilyn Manson took a knife to his arm and simulated a wrist-slashing during his L.A. concert last night ... moments after dedicating a song to Paris Jackson.
The knife is attached to a microphone -- which Manson has used as a prop in previous concerts ... but in the wake of the Paris Jackson song dedication, it had a bigger impact during last night's show.
We broke the story ... hours before Paris took a meat cleaver to her arm at her Calabasas home earlier this week, she "threw a fit" because she wasn't allowed to attend a Marilyn Manson show.
Manson dedicated the song "Disposable Teens" to Jackson last night ... and had previously extended an open offer to Paris to attend his shows whenever she wants.
http://www.tmz.com/2013/06/07/marilyn-manson-paris-jackson-knife-slashing-concert/
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mmmmm ....this things seems to me exaggerated ..... ??? :(
Thanks sweet for sharing !! :bearhug:
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MARILYN MANSON
Simulates Wrist Slashing
After Paris Song Dedication
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2013/06/07/0607-marilyn-manson-splash-knife-3.jpg)
Marilyn Manson took a knife to his arm and simulated a wrist-slashing during his L.A. concert last night ... moments after dedicating a song to Paris Jackson.
The knife is attached to a microphone -- which Manson has used as a prop in previous concerts ... but in the wake of the Paris Jackson song dedication, it had a bigger impact during last night's show.
We broke the story ... hours before Paris took a meat cleaver to her arm at her Calabasas home earlier this week, she "threw a fit" because she wasn't allowed to attend a Marilyn Manson show.
Manson dedicated the song "Disposable Teens" to Jackson last night ... and had previously extended an open offer to Paris to attend his shows whenever she wants.
http://www.tmz.com/2013/06/07/marilyn-manson-paris-jackson-knife-slashing-concert/
I do not know much about MM, so if it is that Manson went to the extreme :WTF:
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These are just some of the lyrics to his songs....Why Paris would be listening to him I have no idea.. :Pulling_hair:
This is the one he dedicated to Paris:
Disposable Teens
And I’m a black rainbow
And I’m an ape of god
I got a face that’s made for violence upon
I’m a teen distortion
Survived abortion
A rebel from the waist down
I wanna thank you mom
I wanna thank you dad
For bringing this fucking world
To a bitter end
I never really hated a one true god
But the God of the people I hated
You said you wanted evolution
The ape was a great big hit
You say you want a revolution, man
And I say that you’re full of shit
We’re disposable teens
We’re disposable teens
We’re disposable teens
We’re disposable
We’re disposable teens
We’re disposable teens
We’re disposable teens
We’re disposable
You said you wanted evolution
The ape was a great big hit
You say you want a revolution, man
I say that you’re full of shit
The more that you fear us
The bigger we get
The more that you fear us
The bigger we get
And don’t be surprised, don’t be surprised
Don’t be surprised when we destroy all of it
Count to 6 & Die
She’s got her eyes open wide
She’s got the dirt and spit of the world
Her mouth on the metal
The lips of a scared little girl
I’ve got an angel in the lobby
He’s waiting to put me in line
I won’t ask forgiveness
My faith has gone dry
She’s got her christian prescriptures
And death has crawled in her ear
Like elevator music of songs
That she shouldn’t hear
And it spins around 1...2...3
And we all lay down 4...5...6
Some do it fast
Some do it better in smaller amounts
And it spins around 1...2...3
And we all lay down 4...5...6
Some do it fast
Some do it better in smaller amounts
COME BACK
[ a) EDEN EYE ]
My mouth was a crib and it was growing lies
I didn't know what love was on that day
my heart's a tiny bloodclot
I picked at it
it never heals it never goes away
I burned all the good things in The Eden Eye
we were too dumb to run too dead to die
This was never my world
you took the angel away
I'd kill myself to make everybody pay
This was never my world
you took the angel away
I'd kill myself to make everybody pay :icon_e_surprised:
I would have told her then
she was the only thing
that I could love in this dying world
but the simple word "love" itself
already died and went away
This was never my world
you took the angel away
I'd kill myself to make everybody pay
This was never my world
you took the angel away
I'd kill myself to make everybody pay
I burned all the good things in The Eden Eye
we were too dumb to run too dead to die
[ b) APPLE OF DISCORD ]
Her heart's bloodstained egg
we didn't handle with care
it's broken and bleeding
and we can never repair
And it even gets more weirder than this..........
http://www.poemhunter.com/lyrics/marilyn-manson/
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Marilyn Manson is a cultural icon. He's always getting blamed for some societal ill regarding teenagers. It's always MM's fault, sort of a joke you know.
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2Good, yes it's not my cup of tea. His message seems to me to be one of despair, hatred of all that's held up as good because of seeing hypocrasy and the effects on mankind. He's not wanting to sweep anything under the carpet but focus on the dirt and shame. I'm trying to be fair and not critical, but I'm not comfortable with this style of music because it leaves a heavy negative feeling for me.
It hasn't been posted here the discussion that went on concerning Front and MM on twitter.
Front @frontback777 3 Jun
cracKed court---"testymoney" re$umes.....weeping elephant.
Front @frontback777 6 Jun
Marilyn M (elephant video) msg to P not related to June 3 "weeping elephant" tweet.
RJayKay @JayKay959 6 Jun
@frontback777 Not related? The Elephant Man remix with Nine Inch Nails? No coincidence?
So that got some hunting going and,
Here is the Marilyn Manson song Deformography: (not sure if it’s okay to put this here)
http://grooveshark.com/#!/search/song?q=Marilyn+Manson+Deformography%28Elephant+Man-Mix
Deformography lyrics
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/marilynmanson/deformography.html
Though it’s not my kind of music, what I felt when reading the lyrics, was IF (big if) MJ was sending us a message I felt: Sometimes we feel like the Elephant man in that we feel ugly, dirty and nasty, and that if people really knew us they would reject us, rather than love us with all our humanity good and bad. The ending:
You are the one I want and what I want is so unreal
I'm such a dirty Rock star yeah...
(I am the one you want and the one you want is so unreal)
I feel MJ is reaching out to all youth and parents here, as in all the world's children are his children. Even Conrad Murray said that he loved Paris like his own child. In the 'Michael' album cover MJ's 3 children are pictured at the front but still part of a large crowd of children is if they are all his children. He hears and feels their pain and fears and confusion. I've experienced a little of the scenario with my daughter when she was 15, as I'm sure millions of other parents have. As usual we have to read between the lines and not just take things at surface value.
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Yes @MJonline and 2Good....I deleted some of my tweets from twitter on this because there has been so much bashing going on there and I don't like to provoke more on such a public arena like twitter.
As for the Marilyn Manson Deformography lyrics.....It starts out with Disney theme "When you wish upon a star " line and then goes on to lament about the truth regarding fame......the whole fame dream is just that....a nightmare really. Disney programming, mass mind control, overt sexualization promoted and thrust in your vision constantly...as well as other aspects we've looked at through out this journey came to my mind [ dark agendas].
I also am not partial to this type of dark and grotesque art, but the fact is that truth can be very ugly at times, even if I choose not to look at it....doesn't mean it's not out there. I have been told that art is a representation or statement on the condition of the society of it's time. And if that is so....we are living in some very scarey times.
Shock rockers are nothing new to the world...a progression from the days of Brechtian theater...but as for me..I like my art to be beautiful and inspiring...I can visit my local dog pound any day to see the ugly side of the human condition.
A personal coincidence from this whole suicide and MM story fro me was when MM was headlining Big Day Out here in Aus. I didn't allow my daughter to go either and she was older that Paris at the time too. :argue:
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MARILYN MANSON
Simulates Wrist Slashing
After Paris Song Dedication
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2013/06/07/0607-marilyn-manson-splash-knife-3.jpg)
Marilyn Manson took a knife to his arm and simulated a wrist-slashing during his L.A. concert last night ... moments after dedicating a song to Paris Jackson.
The knife is attached to a microphone -- which Manson has used as a prop in previous concerts ... but in the wake of the Paris Jackson song dedication, it had a bigger impact during last night's show.
We broke the story ... hours before Paris took a meat cleaver to her arm at her Calabasas home earlier this week, she "threw a fit" because she wasn't allowed to attend a Marilyn Manson show.
Manson dedicated the song "Disposable Teens" to Jackson last night ... and had previously extended an open offer to Paris to attend his shows whenever she wants.
http://www.tmz.com/2013/06/07/marilyn-manson-paris-jackson-knife-slashing-concert/
What's with that RED Cross ?? :WTF: Lately a lot of artists use in their shows :icon_e_confused:.
It seems that Marilyn has something against Christianity.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2DOufFAuoRM/Tq9lEBIjmmI/AAAAAAAADjA/Bkcm2m9sEaA/s1600/manson_godform.jpg)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/---nF8htI2is/Tq9k5n9joQI/AAAAAAAADi4/DULLfVMBCvA/s640/Marilyn+Manson+Illuminati+Hand+Sign+Gaga.png)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2S-921SjzXI/TqOEOBXTmZI/AAAAAAAAB6k/9qgBREVtYbo/s640/Illuminati+Marilyn+Manson+Tainted+Love+We+hate+love+hate+remembered+person+brought+Christianity.jpg)
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MM is the son of a Pastor
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Mansons real name is Brian Warner, he is not a bad person or "devil" as many people like to think. I used to be a big fan when I was younger. In reality he's very shy and he loves art (painting and stuff). He was very insecure when he was younger. And the reason why his shows / songs / videos are so dark is because he just wants to shock the world (just like Michael with this hoax) and it's just the way his art is. Some MM fans might just take too seriously some of the song lyrics. People should understand it's a show.
And I believe Paris understands that too, she wouldn't "attempt suicide" because of this. If her "suicide attempt" was real, MM was not the reason. Paris is too smart.
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This world we live in isn´t always about lightness. It´s often cold and hostile, shallow and often bereft of content.
Everyone is trying to find their meaning in life, their place. Especially during adolescence.
This gesture on stage wasn´t meant as an encouragement to think about suicide as a solution, nor was it the glorification of suicide or mockery of any kind.
I think it was a gesture of showing solidarity. Saying "I feel your pain, I can relate, you are not alone and you are NOT a failure for thinking the way you do or doing what you did".
I think it is important that we have people out there, also artists, that give those struggling to fit in or fighting to be understood the feeling of "you are not alone"
I think MM songs have helped save more (young) lifes then we could ever imagine.
The person behind the "product" MM is in fact very shy and sensitive, very intelligent, literate and well-spoken.
He actually does have a lot of very deep songs and views on society and life that Michael himself probably agrees with.
(http://www.rugusavay.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Marilyn-Manson-Quotes-4.jpg)
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THANKS MaryK! :th_bravo: Great post.
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THANKS MaryK! :th_bravo: Great post.
You´re welcome :icon_e_wink:
:bearhug:
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This world we live in isn´t always about lightness. It´s often cold and hostile, shallow and often bereft of content.
Everyone is trying to find their meaning in life, their place. Especially during adolescence.
This gesture on stage wasn´t meant as an encouragement to think about suicide as a solution, nor was it the glorification of suicide or mockery of any kind.
I think it was a gesture of showing solidarity. Saying "I feel your pain, I can relate, you are not alone and you are NOT a failure for thinking the way you do or doing what you did".
I think it is important that we have people out there, also artists, that give those struggling to fit in or fighting to be understood the feeling of "you are not alone"
I think MM songs have helped save more (young) lifes then we could ever imagine.
The person behind the "product" MM is in fact very shy and sensitive, very intelligent, literate and well-spoken.
He actually does have a lot of very deep songs and views on society and life that Michael himself probably agrees with.
(http://www.rugusavay.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Marilyn-Manson-Quotes-4.jpg)
So Mary, not being a smarty pants, but do you feel different and ok about using suicide as a topic for entertainment when MM is singing about the issue and playing with a knife on stage, in the name of "helping teens" but not ok with Paris / MJ writing Suicide into the hoax script? (Let's assume for purpose of this Q that the story is fake)
How is it different? MMs rendition is far more graphic, but you appear to applaud him unless I am reading your wavelength incorrectly.
Again, not trying to be smart. Just asking questions that naturally come up for me after reading your post.
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This world we live in isn´t always about lightness. It´s often cold and hostile, shallow and often bereft of content.
Everyone is trying to find their meaning in life, their place. Especially during adolescence.
This gesture on stage wasn´t meant as an encouragement to think about suicide as a solution, nor was it the glorification of suicide or mockery of any kind.
I think it was a gesture of showing solidarity. Saying "I feel your pain, I can relate, you are not alone and you are NOT a failure for thinking the way you do or doing what you did".
I think it is important that we have people out there, also artists, that give those struggling to fit in or fighting to be understood the feeling of "you are not alone"
I think MM songs have helped save more (young) lifes then we could ever imagine.
The person behind the "product" MM is in fact very shy and sensitive, very intelligent, literate and well-spoken.
He actually does have a lot of very deep songs and views on society and life that Michael himself probably agrees with.
(http://www.rugusavay.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Marilyn-Manson-Quotes-4.jpg)
LIKE!! :icon_e_biggrin:
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Btw not judging / necessarily disagreeing with MMs messages.
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@Aussie: I thought Mary had a change of heart upon a days reflection. We've all been there.
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@Aussie: I thought Mary had a change of heart upon a days reflection. We've all been there.
Cool. Again. Not being facetious. Promise. Was more curious on how she differentiated it.
And yes! Haven't we all been there!! :icon_e_wink:
Mary do you still feel the story is true?
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Fair question Aussie and I understand where you are coming from.
Art is self-expression. Through art the artist can make others feel what he/she feels. And, potentially, people can relate to that and see part of themselves in that piece of art. Often they find more comfort in that than in anyone trying to give them good advice.
You can now say that using such a story (attempted suicide) for hoax purposes is also an art form.
I agree, you could say that a fabricated story about suicide is also raising awareness, conveying the message of "I am just like you, yes I did that, yes I hurt".
The difference for me is that (up to now), the public, the "audience" have no way, no possibility of perceiving the Paris story as art, since the majority of the world public isn´t aware of the death hoax.
There is no way that they can perceive this as self-expression of either Paris or her dad.
There is no way that they can grasp what this might be about, why it is done and for what purpose.
The context, the connotation is missing completely.
So yes, I still feel the story is true.
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Thanks for explaining, though I don't believe the story, I understand and totally get where you are coming from with your opinion that the 'context' is missing.
:smiley_abuv: and Love
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Thanks for explaining, though I don't believe the story, I understand and totally get where you are coming from with your opinion that the 'context' is missing.
:smiley_abuv: and Love
The same to you
:bearhug:
If the context is handed in later for the world public I might be able to view this in a different light.
However I feel that IF this is for "artistic reasons" it should be made clear as soon as possible.
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The difference for me is that (up to now), the public, the "audience" have no way, no possibility of perceiving the Paris story as art, since the majority of the world public isn´t aware of the death hoax.
Oh I gotta grab this and say, except that everyone is privy to the same info as us and we all know that MJ isn't dead. We recognized the clues and did the leg work to follow the rabbitholes and discover the truth that this is a hoax.
Now reports state that Paris said she wants to "join Dad". So if you accept that MJ isn't dead, you can deduce that Paris's "alleged suicide attempt" is not real either. I actually think it's pretty kind of MJ to make it so very clear only 48hrs into this story. He rarely makes it so easy.
So if people aren't yet aware, it's only on them. Not to be callous or anything but the playing field is level. We all had the same opportunity from the beginning. Like any game, your success is based solely on your own merit.
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However I feel that IF this is for "artistic reasons" it should be made clear as soon as possible.
He just did yesterday, "Join Dad". Very clear!
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Bec, you said:
So if people aren't yet aware, it's only on them.
And there´s the crucial point.
People that are aware of the hoax are a minority.
Therefore, again: the context and connotation are completely missing on a larger scale.
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I don't know a whole lot about Marilyn Manson but do like the music I've heard. In high school a friend of mine was totally in love with him and would call him Nyliram Nosnam so no one would know who she was talking about, lol. Anyways, from a couple interviews that I've seen of his, he is always thoughtful and well-spoken - not dark and evil-sounding.
For you Mary, :bearhug: I love you!
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Andrea :bearhug:
I admit that my initial impulse was to leave here for good.
Yes I did feel disgusted and yes I did feel offended.
And I still feel that the idea of using teenage suicide for hoax purposed crosses my moral boundaries.
However I must say that I am not a person who will quit easily. I will always engange in a respectful discussion and I will try to clarify my point of view.
That is why I tried to explain why I cannot accept the idea.
Initially I felt heartbroken and I perceived insensitivity and coldness from some of you.
But I am now trying to look at things your way and entertain your thoughts without agreeing with them.
I don´t feel that is hypocritical. It´s being true to myself and a way to self-reflection.
Maybe some of you can now understand where I am coming from and maybe understand the pain that me and others feel when we read your words.
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The difference for me is that (up to now), the public, the "audience" have no way, no possibility of perceiving the Paris story as art, since the majority of the world public isn´t aware of the death hoax.
Oh I gotta grab this and say, except that everyone is privy to the same info as us and we all know that MJ isn't dead. We recognized the clues and did the leg work to follow the rabbitholes and discover the truth that this is a hoax.
Now reports state that Paris said she wants to "join Dad". So if you accept that MJ isn't dead, you can deduce that Paris's "alleged suicide attempt" is not real either. I actually think it's pretty kind of MJ to make it so very clear only 48hrs into this story. He rarely makes it so easy.
So if people aren't yet aware, it's only on them. Not to be callous or anything but the playing field is level. We all had the same opportunity from the beginning. Like any game, your success is based solely on your own merit.
The reason why hoax community is a minority is because:
1) Rippers are dumb.
2) The non-fans are 'too practical' to believe that there's a person out there who's trying to make a difference in this world because everyone is busy trying to save their 'own world'. They be like 'miracles don't happen'.
ugh!
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BTW, aren't her siblings there to share her emotions? especially Prince.
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Maybe some of you can now understand where I am coming from and maybe understand the pain that me and others feel when we read your words.
Because we support different theories? I don't understand how differing opinions cause emotional pain.
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The difference for me is that (up to now), the public, the "audience" have no way, no possibility of perceiving the Paris story as art, since the majority of the world public isn´t aware of the death hoax.
Oh I gotta grab this and say, except that everyone is privy to the same info as us and we all know that MJ isn't dead. We recognized the clues and did the leg work to follow the rabbitholes and discover the truth that this is a hoax.
Now reports state that Paris said she wants to "join Dad". So if you accept that MJ isn't dead, you can deduce that Paris's "alleged suicide attempt" is not real either. I actually think it's pretty kind of MJ to make it so very clear only 48hrs into this story. He rarely makes it so easy.
So if people aren't yet aware, it's only on them. Not to be callous or anything but the playing field is level. We all had the same opportunity from the beginning. Like any game, your success is based solely on your own merit.
The reason why hoax community is a minority is because:
1) Rippers are dumb.
2) The non-fans are 'too practical' to believe that there's a person out there who's trying to make a difference in this world because everyone is busy trying to save their 'own world'. They be like 'miracles don't happen'.
ugh!
Misinformed, not dumb. better word to describe it...even ignorant. It's not that they are incapable of understanding. Rather, they refuse to believe that this has happened, and find it so absurdly ludicrous that they fail do their research. There are a lot of intelligent people who still believe he is dead...but because it is such a dismissive ideal...they are ignorant and fail to dig deeper. that in itself I wouldn't just call dumb. Just need to get their facts straight. You can either give credit to michael, making him possibly the greatest entertainer and illusionist the world has ever seen, or admit that the general public is dim-witted. I'll give this one to michael, because by doing so you discredit his ability to create such a spectacle.
as for Marilyn Manson, he is deliberately eccentric. he likes to manipulate the media, when in actuality, after viewing a videos, he is very intelligent and has this articulation about him that undoubtedly surprising. His lyrics aren't demonic or sadistic, just help to convey his emotions. I wouldn't take those lyrics literally, you really have to read between the lines to draw your own interpretations from his music. Being a poet I know how lyricism is essentially created.
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Maybe some of you can now understand where I am coming from and maybe understand the pain that me and others feel when we read your words.
Because we support different theories? I don't understand how differing opinions cause emotional pain.
No, it´s not about the different theories.
It´s about the coldness and insensitivity I perceived.
Perception is subjective and so is emotional pain.
And this being said I want to add that I don´t think that anyone should consider themselves smarter or more "enlightened" and thus superior.
Nor should anyone judge and blame others for not seeing what they see.
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@mrbishot : refusing to understand what is clearly evident after the facts are all laid out to them is, imo, dumb.
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This doesn't translate well in print for me.
Not to be callous or anything but the playing field is level. We all had the same opportunity from the beginning. Like any game, your success is based solely on your own merit.
It's no secret that I think this is about more than making a movie or an interactive game. I assume those may be two amongst many reasons [ some very serious] for this hoax. I also don't buy that his whole life [publicly] was a hoax as others do. That's okay .
But I would just like to add that maybe being successful in this virtual game if indeed it is such, may be more about our reactions and being sensitive and compassionate than winning at any cost. In my estimations, if I am genuinely kind and compassionate then I am indeed a winner or more so... have already won.
I just wanted to voice this......that's all.
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This doesn't translate well in print for me.
Not to be callous or anything but the playing field is level. We all had the same opportunity from the beginning. Like any game, your success is based solely on your own merit.
It's no secret that I think this is about more than making a movie or an interactive game. I assume those may be two amongst many reasons [ some very serious] for this hoax. I also don't buy that his whole life [publicly] was a hoax as others do. That's okay .
But I would just like to add that maybe being successful in this virtual game if indeed it is such, may be more about our reactions and being sensitive and compassionate than winning at any cost. In my estimations, if I am genuinely kind and compassionate then I am indeed a winner or more so... have already won.
I just wanted to voice this......that's all.
Yes! Thank you!
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Quote from: MaryK
"And this being said I want to add that I don´t think that anyone should consider themselves smarter or more "enlightened" and thus superior.
Nor should anyone judge and blame others for not seeing what they see."
MaryK, very nice words. And I appreciate your honesty in speaking your mind.
With this hoax, Michael has pioneered yet another field. People have been accustomed and programmed for years to believe what they see on TV and what they read in magazines. To go against what's been reported for 4 years as the truth from every media that's out there would be crazy, right? Even though the tides are turning and people are beginning to be very cautious of what's being reported as the truth, it will take a lot more time for the change to happen.
I believe it was Michael who made people open their eyes and do more research before they believe the media's reports to be true, but we still have a long way to go on that.
It is my belief that the main reason for this hoax is for Michael to expose AEG (and may be Sony) as the ruthless, unethical and devious company it is and how the people working for AEG were treating Michael and his family up to and before 6/25. And this trial is doing just that, exposing the reasons why Michael hoaxed his death and how he had no other way out of the whole mess.
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@RK
i think bec meant understanding and realizing this hoax is a success and it's based on your own merit. that's how i got it. We all were at the same level on June 25, but what we believe after that day is based on our capacity and ability of recognizing the fake from the hullabaloo.
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Maybe some of you can now understand where I am coming from and maybe understand the pain that me and others feel when we read your words.
Because we support different theories? I don't understand how differing opinions cause emotional pain.
No, it´s not about the different theories.
It´s about the coldness and insensitivity I perceived.
Perception is subjective and so is emotional pain.
And this being said I want to add that I don´t think that anyone should consider themselves smarter or more "enlightened" and thus superior.
No one should anyone judge and blame others for not seeing what they see.
Again Mary, genuinely sad for you for being hurt. I truly am. I know that no one here would genuinely want to hurt others. The comments were simply objective statements about the story from one perspective. Regarding coldness and insensitivity you perceived, the comments were made in the same spirit that other comments have been made. We have discussed other things with the same 'coldness and insensitivity' you claim. Ex: autopsy, vitiligo, death pics, death scene. The kind of communication that was expressed with the Paris did not differ from other 'crude' conversations we have 'all' engaged in for hoax purposes in the past.
Without trivialising how you feel, you can't be responsible for others being hurt by our words. If we were all careful and sensitive to others in everything we say here on the forum, no one would ever say anything. Omg, some of the stuff I've read abt Jesus or God on this forum, was terrible to read. But nonetheless the opinion of others.
No one here said they consider themselves more enlightened or superior. And as for Judgement, the individuals who were being judged were actually the ones denying the Paris story, not the other way around. Lol, the amount of hate mail I've had this week is ridiculous, thanks to someone copying and pasting my comments from here onto twitter.
No one blamed others for not seeing what they see. In fact the only people who were blamed, again were the ones who didn't believe it. Blamed for being callous, uncaring, like tabloids, etc or my personal favourite blamed for sending out a message and promoting that teen suicide is entertainment.
Emotional pain, is subjective as you say. In this scenario it worked both ways. I got hurt too. The attacking was very personal, in my case. But eh, water off a ducks back! I'm used to bein unpopular because of what i say lol :icon_e_wink:
Anyways the reason for telling you this is to show, that it 'hurt' the other way around too. I get your position.
I don't regret any of my comments. Sad that you were offended and it made you want I leave. And I'm glad you're not!
:bearhug:
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being successful in this virtual game if indeed it is such, may be more about our reactions and being sensitive and compassionate than winning at any cost. In my estimations, if I am genuinely kind and compassionate then I am indeed a winner or more so... have already won.
And being analytical in this instance, an in-compassionate or unkind person does not make. I don't believe anyone who thinks the story is false has a 'win at any cost' attitude. More just tellin' it like they perceive it.
Emotion got mixed in which is why it got messy. Investigation is no place for emotion unfortunately.
:bearhug:
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Bec, you said:
So if people aren't yet aware, it's only on them.
And there´s the crucial point.
People that are aware of the hoax are a minority.
Therefore, again: the context and connotation are completely missing on a larger scale.
Like this :moonwalk_: :bearhug: Thanks... :bearhug:
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Paris Jackson @ Paris Jackson
08th Jan 2013
can we PLEASE stop this #cut4Bieber epidemic!! seriously it's hurting way to many people and this whole thing is unbelievably ridiculous!! lost a very close friend due to razors and I absolutely HATE to see fellow beliebers cause themselves so much pain because of a drug...I know for a fact that Justin would NOT want you guys doing this so please, for the sake of all the other little children and yourselves. Jesus Christ please stop!!
https://twitter.com/WhiteRabbitful/status/343508048112922624/photo/1
And this is a retweet Paris made but I have not yet the link to it:
@dutchminati your skin is not paper, don't cut it. your life is not a movie, don't end it. your blood is not trash, don't waste it.
4 months ago
https://twitter.com/WhiteRabbitful/status/343511138950074369/photo/1
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as you said MM, is a well-spoken and intelligent. But what about people influenced? with boys who do not read between the lines?
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I basically thought MM was a weirdo and didn't pay much attention to him since he wasn't my cup of tea. But after I saw an interview he did with one of the big guys (Lettermam, Leno etc.), I was very impressed with what he had to say. I realized this was all a show. MM is another artist that is misunderstood.
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Just watched this Letterman interview from 2003. Lisa Marie and Janet are both mentioned, briefly, but a friendship with Lisa Marie is revealed and an association with Janet. Starting at 4:06.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROhiHs5gKNk[/youtube]
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No one here said they consider themselves more enlightened or superior. And as for Judgement, the individuals who were being judged were actually the ones denying the Paris story, not the other way around.
Yup. But that's ok. They're just words.
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Good to hear love and understanding the other's view is prevailing! This forum has seen its share of unhappy endings...
Andrea, I enjoyed the interview of MM with Letterman. I might have seen it way back but hardly remember.
I can totally see why he and MJ are likely friends, especially since he obviously has been selected to be involved in the hoax with Paris. It appears he knows Lisa Marie, Janet, and mostly because he loves extremism for entertainment, and expressing himself through painting. I thought the first painting quite cool! He says its called Harlequin Jack and the absent bunny, purchased by Jack Osborne.
It made me think of the White rabbit and the Mad Hatter. All these Jacks.
(http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb371/lifeisamovie1/MJ%20related%20not%20people%203/marilynmansonwatercolor_zpsa79e80b8.jpg) (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/lifeisamovie1/media/MJ%20related%20not%20people%203/marilynmansonwatercolor_zpsa79e80b8.jpg.html)
I appreciate how MJ has so often in these 4 years, taken us out beyond our comfort zones, to help us to see past the surface, that our cultured civilization tends to want to cover up with fakeness, denial, shallowness, or simplicity.
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MJonmind:
I can totally see why he and MJ are likely friends, especially since he obviously has been selected to be involved in the hoax with Paris. It appears he knows Lisa Marie, Janet, and mostly because he loves extremism for entertainment, and expressing himself through painting. I thought the first painting quite cool! He says its called Harlequin Jack and the absent bunny, purchased by Jack Osborne.
It made me think of the White rabbit and the Mad Hatter. All these Jacks.
Yes, MM takes everything to the extreme to provoke reactions and to get people thinking. He devotes himself to his art. As different as MM and MJ might seem, they have much more in common than most would think.
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MJonmind:
I can totally see why he and MJ are likely friends, especially since he obviously has been selected to be involved in the hoax with Paris. It appears he knows Lisa Marie, Janet, and mostly because he loves extremism for entertainment, and expressing himself through painting. I thought the first painting quite cool! He says its called Harlequin Jack and the absent bunny, purchased by Jack Osborne.
It made me think of the White rabbit and the Mad Hatter. All these Jacks.
Yes, MM takes everything to the extreme to provoke reactions and to get people thinking. He devotes himself to his art. As different as MM and MJ might seem, they have much more in common than most would think.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCx_UpZjIVI[/youtube]
Yes :)
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MJonmind:
I can totally see why he and MJ are likely friends, especially since he obviously has been selected to be involved in the hoax with Paris. It appears he knows Lisa Marie, Janet, and mostly because he loves extremism for entertainment, and expressing himself through painting. I thought the first painting quite cool! He says its called Harlequin Jack and the absent bunny, purchased by Jack Osborne.
It made me think of the White rabbit and the Mad Hatter. All these Jacks.
Yes, MM takes everything to the extreme to provoke reactions and to get people thinking. He devotes himself to his art. As different as MM and MJ might seem, they have much more in common than most would think.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCx_UpZjIVI[/youtube]
Yes :)
lol I love this man. He live for controversy just like Michael. How much did I hear that he get his floating ribs off to be able to do uhmmm...well... get some mouth pleasure with himself.
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MJonmind:
I can totally see why he and MJ are likely friends, especially since he obviously has been selected to be involved in the hoax with Paris. It appears he knows Lisa Marie, Janet, and mostly because he loves extremism for entertainment, and expressing himself through painting. I thought the first painting quite cool! He says its called Harlequin Jack and the absent bunny, purchased by Jack Osborne.
It made me think of the White rabbit and the Mad Hatter. All these Jacks.
Yes, MM takes everything to the extreme to provoke reactions and to get people thinking. He devotes himself to his art. As different as MM and MJ might seem, they have much more in common than most would think.
yeah but I think he crossed that stupid line this time. I agree with Debbie's response to TMZ and the story.
@TMZ 7 Jun
Earlier: Marilyn Manson Dedicates Song to Paris Jackson -- 'Disposable Teens' http://tmz.me/ZVdFvn
Painted Desert Ranch
@DJRJPDR 7 Jun @TMZ how thoughtful
@TMZ 7 Jun
Earlier: Marilyn Manson Simulates Wrist-Slashing After Paris Jackson Song Dedication http://tmz.me/13iZay5
Painted Desert Ranch
@DJRJPDR @TMZ he's a sick fuck
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Thanks Thirdeye! I'm following her now, and find her one tough cookie! :icon_lol:
Though she talks about hating the paps and dresses down a few nasty tweeters, she doesn't overtly say anything about Paris actually trying to commit suicide that I can see.
She in fact acts quite casual, talking about her horses as if nothing noteworthy has happened. And I had heard elsewhere a question about whether Debbie had had another child, daughter. This girl looks more like Debbie than Paris even:
(http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb371/lifeisamovie1/MJ%20family%203/debbierowe2daughters_zpsc67b3594.jpg) (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/lifeisamovie1/media/MJ%20family%203/debbierowe2daughters_zpsc67b3594.jpg.html)
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"Extra" music correspondent Adam Weissler caught up with rocker Alice Cooper in L.A. on Thursday, where he kicked off his "Masters of Madness: Shock Therapy" cross-country tour with Marilyn Manson. Cooper commented on reports that Paris Jackson was upset prior to attempting suicide earlier this week when she was told she wasn't allowed to attend the "Shock Therapy" show.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcXdb445QQQ[/youtube]
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Alice Cooper is a spectacular stand up guy, btw. He lived in the town I grew up in, painted his house bright purple, was active in the community, very approachable, and just all around a nice guy. Had to throw that in because I have always liked him.
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as you said MM, is a well-spoken and intelligent. But what about people influenced? with boys who do not read between the lines?
Good question
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[/quote]AustralianMJBelLIEver
No one here said they consider themselves more enlightened or superior. And as for Judgement, the individuals who were being judged were actually the ones denying the Paris story, not the other way around. Lol, the amount of hate mail I've had this week is ridiculous, thanks to someone copying and pasting my comments from here onto twitter.
No one blamed others for not seeing what they see. In fact the only people who were blamed, again were the ones who didn't believe it. Blamed for being callous, uncaring, like tabloids, etc or my personal favourite blamed for sending out a message and promoting that teen suicide is entertainment.
Emotional pain, is subjective as you say. In this scenario it worked both ways. I got hurt too. The attacking was very personal, in my case. But eh, water off a ducks back! I'm used to bein unpopular because of what i say lol :icon_e_wink:
Anyways the reason for telling you this is to show, that it 'hurt' the other way around too. I get your position.
I don't regret any of my comments. Sad that you were offended and it made you want I leave. And I'm glad you're not!
:bearhug:
[/quote]
This is terrible and sorry you have been hurt by someone's betrayal, hope it won't stop you from debating with true heart and gusto!
I know we had a few exchanges and everyone's emotions were running high, but the whole episode has made a great debate and has certainly shaken the place up in recent days with some great points being aired on both sides!
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Interesting all these old rockers are being introduced to the scene, now in context of Paris. Tw Front recently mentioned Jimi Hendrix. I'm so thankful there are SO many genres of music, variety. If it was left to the churches, we'd only have quartets, choirs, plain singing (I've grown up with that, and severe criticism of all the other types of music, saying it was all of the devil). And hymns apparently came from the drinking places, with songs brought over to the church. The river of history, art, music, flows on. This hoax has included stories and music from a wide range of artists, which I've loved exploring and learning more about, that touches the soul. I've heard this line, "Why should the devil have all the good music?" I'm enjoying the respectful debate, the feeling of a range of emotions that all humans experience. To be alive, and live through the stages of life--childhood, teen, middle, and senior years! I'm so thankful!
The lyrics for Alice Cooper's, No Mr. nice guy (lol just like MJ had to get tough)
http://www.absolutelyrics.com/lyrics/view/alice_cooper/no_more_mr._nice_guy
I like this song, Alice Cooper-Schools out, for all the grads now!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qga5eONXU_4
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School's Out is an ageless summer vacation anthem for all ages. Great song!
Schoooooool's out for EVER! lol
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MJonmind:
I can totally see why he and MJ are likely friends, especially since he obviously has been selected to be involved in the hoax with Paris. It appears he knows Lisa Marie, Janet, and mostly because he loves extremism for entertainment, and expressing himself through painting. I thought the first painting quite cool! He says its called Harlequin Jack and the absent bunny, purchased by Jack Osborne.
It made me think of the White rabbit and the Mad Hatter. All these Jacks.
Yes, MM takes everything to the extreme to provoke reactions and to get people thinking. He devotes himself to his art. As different as MM and MJ might seem, they have much more in common than most would think.
yeah but I think he crossed that stupid line this time. I agree with Debbie's response to TMZ and the story.
@TMZ 7 Jun
Earlier: Marilyn Manson Dedicates Song to Paris Jackson -- 'Disposable Teens' http://tmz.me/ZVdFvn
Painted Desert Ranch
@DJRJPDR 7 Jun @TMZ how thoughtful
@TMZ 7 Jun
Earlier: Marilyn Manson Simulates Wrist-Slashing After Paris Jackson Song Dedication http://tmz.me/13iZay5
Painted Desert Ranch
@DJRJPDR @TMZ he's a sick fuck
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2013/06/07/0607-marilyn-manson-splash-knife-3.jpg)
I'm sorry but that was a big LIE,and as usual media twist the TRUTH in their advantage :Pulling_hair:.
All news outlets are showing a picture of him pretending to cut his wrist while talking about him performing "Disposable Teens," which is the song he performed for Paris. He actually did the wrist thing for a totally different song apparently, called "No Reflection".
So while this stunt may not have been the most tactful thing, I don't think Manson was trying to be evil by doing it. It was probably just a part of his shtick. The song he dedicated to Paris is about calling attention to teens who are feeling repressed and ignored by modern society.
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@ bec Alice Cooper is a spectacular stand up guy
AGREE !!!! :icon_razz: