Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators
Hoax Investigation => General Hoax Investigation => Michael Joe Jackson ~ Michael Joseph Jackson => Topic started by: mmz on December 22, 2009, 08:41:19 AM
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2 days ago I saw on the web a viedo tribute with this is it song,and it was said to be directed by spyke lee.I had saved the link,but now it doesn't work anymore. ANyway,there were many scenes form Gary,and Michael young.There was also a Michael handwritten school page,and it was said: I am (or my name,i don't remember) Michael Joseph Jackson. I think this is more than legit.
So,I don't think the question of Joe/Joseph is important. He also married Lisa Marie as Michael Joseph Jackson (if you watch the video of the marriage in Las Vegas).
I am sorry,but I came to the conclusion Joseph,Joe is not a clue...
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Ofcourse JOE is a clue. I mean, it's on his passports, on his Motown contract (why would daddy Joe give a false name?), he says it in court...
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Please take a look to the FBI Publications:
(http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx254/havannas1/MichaelJoeJackson.jpg)
http://foia.fbi.gov/foiaindex/jackson_michael.htm
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I have been a fan of Michaels for as long as I can remember and gathered lots information over the years and have always known his middle name to be JOSEPH so I agree with you there. I had not even previously been aware before his "death" the possibility of his name being JOE so I cant help thinking that this sudden question of his name going from JOSEPH to JOE has something to do with legal documents and his "death". Am trying to get my head round how it could make a difference but there is more to this than meets the eye in my opinion.
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I have been a fan of Michaels for as long as I can remember and gathered lots information over the years and have always known his middle name to be JOSEPH so I agree with you there. I had not even previously been aware before his "death" the possibility of his name being JOE so I cant help thinking that this sudden question of his name going from JOSEPH to JOE has something to do with legal documents and his "death". Am trying to get my head round how it could make a difference but there is more to this than meets the eye in my opinion.
agreed same here
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The only people who trip over the Joe/Joeseph thing are folks who did not follow MJ in the J5 years. He was always Michael Joseph Jackson and I am not 16 nor 25 nor 30. Trust the old skool heads.
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I think he's legit name is Joe, but he likes it Joseph .. I dont know if he actually changed it. He didn't like to be Joe, though that was his birth name I think
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His Father's name is Joseph.
Ebony Jet Article August 1979:
Michael Joseph (Smiley) Jackson, the angelic-voiced lead singer of the world famous vocal quintet of Jackson brothers, is a handsome young man whose onstage magnetism and magic are exceeded only by his offstage majesty and meek heartedness.
Born the fifth of six talented sons of Joseph and Katherine Jackson in Gary, Ind., nearly 21 years ago (Aug. 29, 195 , he is a Virgo, whose trait is unselfishness, and is moved by magnetic forces which draw so many admirers into his life that love is his for the taking. And his love-struck fans often do strange things to show their affection for him.
When one beautiful Black teenager recently boarded a packed plane and spotted him seated with his brothers, she stared in disbelief, began breathing heavily and became so excited that she started wetting in her panties and froze in her tracks as urine trickled down her legs.
At the arrival gate where girls had gathered to meet the Jacksons, a blonde teenager squeezed through the crushing crowd, slipped past security guards, pulled Michael toward her and tried to make him kiss her.
Returning recently from a world tour celebrating their 10th anniversary in show business, Michael, the only Jackson son who has reached the age of consent and is still unmarried, waded through a room full of mail, sorting out those proposing marriage. Bashful Michael answered them the same: “Thank you for the beautiful letter. It’s very nice. And we will always love you. Love, Michael Jackson and the Jacksons.”
Mild-mannered Micahel makes it clear that he gets no satisfaction writing the same letter to all of those female fans who want him for a husband. But he responds in brief dignity because he actually fears love-sick fans.
Sitting in the living room of his family’s home located on a parcel of land in Encino, Calif., purchased form the sprawling estate of the late lady-killer actor Clark Gable of Gone With The Wind fame, the young and eligible bachelor talked about marriage, dating and a wide range of topics which deeply concern him.
“I don’t like to break hearts,” he said solemnly and shyly, shifting his 5-foot, 9 ½ -inch body in a sofa chair. “I don’t really know these people and, gosh, it’s a weird thing.” He continued:
“That, I think, is the weird part about show business. You portray an image. And those people are into you so long, buying your records. You’re all over their walls. They wake up seeing you. They wake up thinking about you. You’re totally on their mind. And when they meet you in person, they feel they have been knowing you for a long time. But I don’t know them. You see, that’s the painful part of show business—the breaking of the hearts. Do you know what that does to them? God, some of them go to the point of committing suicide because they get real serious. That’s what I don’t know how to handle.”
For the young female bubblegum crowd whose voices are now turning from no to yes, he is especially fearful. About them he says, “You have to be careful because sometimes love can reverse on you. They feel they can’t get you and they’ll go to the point of plotting and planning terrible things on you or do terrible things to hurt you. That’s why it’s important to be nice, but sincerely nice.”
He recalled the nasty rumor that surfaced last year, falsely claiming that he had undergone a sex change. The rumor is not dead yet and he said his encounter with a love-crazed blonde at the aforementioned airport helps to revive it. “This beautiful girl with blonde hair was trying her hardest to pull me into her to kiss her,” Michael remembers. “She said, ‘You’re so sexy, kiss me.’ When I showed no kind of interest in her, she said, ‘What’s wrong, you fag?’ and walked off.”
He laments that he still has to tell people: “There’s a reason why I was created male. I’m not a girl. And what kills me the most and makes me want to break down in tears is when little kids, seven and eight, come to me asking me that. I say, no, and please tell all your other little friends it’s not true.”
What disturbs Michael more than the rumor is the kind of mail he receives from some of the bubble gum set. “You wouldn’t believe the mail I get. I mean some of it gets real vulgar,” he revealed. To him, such mail is as shocking as seeing a priest at a movie house watching The Devil And Mrs. Jones or Deep Throat. “Some of the mail gets real funky, not polite at all,” he says. “They tell you the stuff they want to do to you and everything, and how they’re going to do it. I just read and go, ‘Oh my God, these girls.’ There’s not much charm in girls anymore, like the guy used to always pick up the phone and call the girl. She would never call the guy. She would sit there all day until the phone would ring for her. But now the girls bother you to death….You see girls today 11 years old with bags and lipstick and eyeliner and lashes as well. They feel they’re women and they’re not.”
Don’t get the impression that the soft-spoken singer is a saint or square. Looking like the cliché description—tall, dark, and handsome—Michael is very much aware that he can now do at age 20 what he used to sing about when he was 10. One well-known witness is Oscar-winning actress Tatum O’Neal, teenaged daughter of actor Ryan O’Neal.
A reporter for Modern People two years ago quoted Miss O’Neal as once saying she couldn’t wait to have her first affair. If she followed up the widely publicized comment with action involving manly Michael, he is not the kind to kiss and tell. He declined to discuss intimate details of dating Tatum, but was anxious to set the record straight about their romance. First, he readily admits the parallels in their lives: Both have protective parents. Tatum is a daddy’s girl and Michael is a mama’s boy. Both are attractive and wealthy. She rides in a chauffeur-driven Rolls-Royce and millionaire Michael drives his own Rolls. Both are very shy. Michael is one of the brightest stars of the future and Tatum is, too.
“I want all those people who read JET to just know that we’re mainly good friends,” Michael assured. Admitting that there have been criticisms about their relations, Michael mused: “People take it to crazy means and crazy extents and I just tell them we’re really, really, really good friends. That’s all I say. They say, ‘Well how good friends are you? Is there any romance going on?’ I say, yes sometimes but not all the time.”
Although dating is part of his lifestyle, he is more interested in developing a new lifestyle around his family’s home which is now undergoing extensive renovations. Emphasizing that he is not ready to move out on his own like his four married brothers (Jackie, Jermaine, Tito and Marlon), Michael explains:
“I’ve always wanted to do this for my mother. She loves homes and everything and I do things by feeling and force. I don’t feel that it’s time for me to move away yet. There are so many things I want to do just staying here.
“If I move out now, I would die of loneliness. Most people who move out go to discos every night. They party every night. They invite friends over and I don’t do any of those things. I would really die of loneliness.”
Michael’s renovation plans will include the addiction of a tennis court, a remodeled swimming pool, a gym room, a movie room, a rehearsal studio and a library.
Living at home with his mother, Katherine, father Joseph, brother Randy, and sisters, Janet and LaToya, the young entertainer explores his many talents and grapples with social and religious concerns.
Uppermost among his concerns are religion and racism. A devout Jehovah’s Witness, like his mother, he says: “I believe in the Bible and I try to follow the Bible. I know that I’m not an angel and I’m not a devil either. I try to be as best as I can and I try to do what I think is right. It’s that simple….I don’t just pray at night. I pray at different times during the day. Whenever I see something beautiful, I say, ‘Oh, God, that’s beautiful.’ I say little prayers like that all through the day.”
To cope with the stresses of show business, Michael says he turns to his deity, not drugs. “As corny as it sounds, natural highs are the greatest highs in the world,” he attests. “The stars, the mountains, children, babies smiling are just magic,” he happily beamed.
The one thing that dims this glow is the pervasive racism that’s rampant in the world today, especially in America, the world traveler observes. Recalling how badly the singing Jacksons have been treated in southern cities, he said that it was difficult to believe.
“The people told us just deal with it (racism) because that’s how the South is,” he said and added: “That’s ignorance and it’s taught because it’s not genetic at all.
“I’m really not a prejudiced person at all. I believe that people should think about God more and creation because if you look at the many wonders inside the human bodies—the different colors of organs…and all these colors do different things in the human body—why can’t we do it as people?
“That (racism) is the only thing I hate. I really do. And that’s why I try to write, put it in songs, put it in dance, put it in my art—to teach the world. If politicians can’t do it, poets should put it in poetry and writers should put it in novels. That’s what we have to do and I think it’s so important to save the world.”
As widely read as he is traveled, Michael, a private high school graduate who once quit public school because girls were always screaming and pulling on him, said: “I love to read. I wish I could advise more people to read. There’s a whole new world in books. If you can’t afford to travel, you travel mentally through reading. You can see anything and go anyplace you want to in reading.”
Traveling and reading have greatly influenced his religious and racial views. About his travels, Michael explains: “Wherever you go, man-made things are man-made, but you’ve got to get out and see God’s beauty of the world.”
Reflecting upon America’s racial problems, he said: “I wish I could borrow from other countries, say, like Venezuela or Trinidad, the real love and color-blind people and bring it to America. When you travel, you realize how different America is. God, I hate to say this but our people are brainwashed.”
Of all his travels, he says his most emotional and moving experiences came in travels in Dakar, Senegal. “I’m going to raise my hand (to God) on this one,” he lit up like a light. “I always thought that Blacks, as far as artistry, were the most talented race on earth. But when I went to Africa, I was even more convinced. They do incredible things over there….They got the beats and the rhythm. I really see where drums come from. It makes you think that all Blacks have rhythm….I don’t want the Blacks to ever forget that this is where we come from and where our music comes from. And if we forget, it (Black history) would really get lost. I want us to remember.”
http://floacist.wordpress.com/2007/10/2 ... t-16-1979/ (http://floacist.wordpress.com/2007/10/20/jet-interview-august-16-1979/)
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Why does his Motown contract say JOE? I mean, Joe (dad) was the one who took care of the papers...
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Because it is a NICK NAME. His father's name is JOSEPH and they call him Joe! What difference does it make??? He was ALWAYS Michael Joseph Jackson since I was a child in the 1970's!!!! Lord Jesus!! :o
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The only people who trip over the Joe/Joeseph thing are folks who did not follow MJ in the J5 years. He was always Michael Joseph Jackson and I am not 16 nor 25 nor 30. Trust the old skool heads.
Agree! I'm 37, one of 8 (another 6 sisters and one brother). My sisters followed the Jacksons 5 from the beginning and as for as long as I can remember it has always been Michael Joseph Jackson.
Michael "Joe" Jackson or Michael "Joseph" Jackson. I honestly do not think it's as a big a deal as some are making it out to be. I believe they are one in the same person here. His FBI files use BOTH references Michael-Joseph and Michael-Joe. They are referring to the same person and were used interchangeably. 1993 allegations we all know were Michael. 2004 allegations we knew were Michael. One Michael, just different (and in my opinion, shortened) middle name.
I don't think it's a clue or has a hidden meaning. But that's just my opinion.
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I don't think you sign contracts with nicknames. There must of been a better reason why Michael used both of the names...If his middle name was Joseph, he could have later changed it.
I didn't read the Joseph vs Joe SOLVED post and I can't find it right now. What did that post say?
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You can sign contracts with a nick name in the middle as long as the first and last name are the same as your given name.
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The only people who trip over the Joe/Joeseph thing are folks who did not follow MJ in the J5 years. He was always Michael Joseph Jackson and I am not 16 nor 25 nor 30. Trust the old skool heads.
Agree! I'm 37, one of 8 (another 6 sisters and one brother). My sisters followed the Jacksons 5 from the beginning and as for as long as I can remember it has always been Michael Joseph Jackson.
Michael "Joe" Jackson or Michael "Joseph" Jackson. I honestly do not think it's as a big a deal as some are making it out to be. I believe they are one in the same person here. His FBI files use BOTH references Michael-Joseph and Michael-Joe. They are referring to the same person and were used interchangeably. 1993 allegations we all know were Michael. 2004 allegations we knew were Michael. One Michael, just different (and in my opinion, shortened) middle name.
I don't think it's a clue or has a hidden meaning. But that's just my opinion.
Thanks!! :D
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You can sign contracts with a nick name in the middle as long as the first and last name are the same as your given name.
IMO you can't use a nickname on official papers like a passport, drivers license or in court.
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Because it is a NICK NAME. His father's name is JOSEPH and they call him Joe! What difference does it make??? He was ALWAYS Michael Joseph Jackson since I was a child in the 1970's!!!! Lord Jesus!! :o
It makes a lot of difference to me.
If you were born in that era or later doesn't matter, because we all know him as Joseph!
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Because it is a NICK NAME. His father's name is JOSEPH and they call him Joe! What difference does it make??? He was ALWAYS Michael Joseph Jackson since I was a child in the 1970's!!!! Lord Jesus!!
It does not matter, it's the same. Michael Joseph (JOE) Jackscon, it's the same. Why don't you people understand this. Watch the TMZ live feed about this, Harvey Levin even addressed it. Ask an attorney, it doesn't matter.
And the SS DEATH Index is correct with Michael's name, birthdate and date of death listed correctly.
Move on people, live your own lives. Michael passed or he is not coming back and wants to be left ALONE.
this is sad but just let this go. he passed. it's not a hoax it's just details that are messed up. if you look on youtube, you'll see a lot of videos of mike really messed up, looks drugged, etc...it was a problem for him. it took him.
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Michael Joseph Jackson was a stage name..... legally can someone sign a legal document with a stage name?
do other music stars sign contracts with their stage names ?
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Michael Joseph Jackson was a stage name..... legally can someone sign a legal document with a stage name?
do other music stars sign contracts with their stage names ?
Enough! :x
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You can sign contracts with a nick name in the middle as long as the first and last name are the same as your given name.
IMO you can't use a nickname on official papers like a passport, drivers license or in court.
yes im agree with you ..
few days ago i went to bank andi wrote my father's name shortened and the teller said i should write his name complete, just like on his id card ..
IMO you can't sign contracts with nick name on it ..
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Move on people, live your own lives. Michael passed or he is not coming back and wants to be left ALONE.
this is sad but just let this go. he passed. it's not a hoax it's just details that are messed up. if you look on youtube, you'll see a lot of videos of mike really messed up, looks drugged, etc...it was a problem for him. it took him.
I don't want to offend you, but if you're convinced about what you said above, then what are you doing on an hoax investigation forum?
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Michael Joseph Jackson was a stage name..... legally can someone sign a legal document with a stage name?
do other music stars sign contracts with their stage names ?
Enough! :x
I'm very sorry, but we will continue discussing this Joe/Joseph thing.
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As long as it is not clear about this name, we should investigate this! So it's not closed and we will not move on!
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Michael Joseph Jackson was a stage name..... legally can someone sign a legal document with a stage name?
do other music stars sign contracts with their stage names ?
Enough! :x
I'm very sorry, but we will continue discussing this Joe/Joseph thing.
Don't be sorry. :roll:
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Don't be sorry. :roll:
Why that face? If you don't like what we say/discuss, then just don't read it.
This was a nice place, but recently people are not reacting very nice to each other...
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[attachment=0:1r9fowmi]IMG 2.jpg[/attachment:1r9fowmi]
I have taken this picture from the book: "Michael Jackson the whole chrinoc from 1958-1997
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Why does his Motown contract say JOE? I mean, Joe (dad) was the one who took care of the papers...
It is just simple when Michael started his career he was very young not old enough to sign an official document (he wasn´t of full age and in America you must be 21 if it hasn´t been changed by now but then it was like that). So his father Joe did it because at this time he was his father AND manager. I think it is very clear why Michael could not have signed this paper but his parent. And since when are underage children allowed to sign documents...I Germny it is not allowed and I doubt that it is allowed in the USA especially children who had at that time no rights as they have today. So it is just logic. No speculation
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Why does his Motown contract say JOE? I mean, Joe (dad) was the one who took care of the papers...
It is just simple when Michael started his career he was very young not old enough to sign an official document (he wasn´t of full age and in America you must be 21 if it hasn´t been changed by now but then it was like that). So his father Joe did it because at this time he was his father AND manager. I think it is very clear why Michael could not have signed this paper but his parent. And since when are underage children allowed to sign documents...I Germny it is not allowed and I doubt that it is allowed in the USA especially children who had at that time no rights as they have today. So it is just logic. No speculation
I think you don't understand me... I'm not asking why Joe took care of the paperwork, but why Joe used the name Michael JOE Jackson.
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This debate seems to be going on forever :) . I don't know if this will help, but if you check out the link below in another thread it may explain the Joe vs Joseph issue.
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=2247 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=2247)
It seems that these list the songs that are copyrighted under Michael Joseph and Michael Joe. I didn't look at every song link, but what I did look at seems to elude to the fact that under the Jackson 5 Michaels name was Michael "Joseph". When he went solo later on, breaking from the Jackson 5, he changed it to Michael "Joe". I'm guessing it probably had more to do with him forging his own and seperate identity from the Jackson 5 and for contractual/royalty issues etc.
Look that's just my take on it. "Joseph or Joe", to me they are one in the same person.
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Ofcourse Michael Joe/Joseph Jackson is one and the same person.
We're just figuring out why he uses 2 names.
IMO the stage (Joseph) and real (Joe) name makes sense.
I don't believe that he changed his name in Joe when he started his solo carriere, because his Motown contract says Joe (the one daddy Joe took care of).
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Ofcourse Michael Joe/Joseph Jackson is one and the same person.
We're just figuring out why he uses 2 names.
IMO the stage (Joseph) and real (Joe) name makes sense.
I don't believe that he changed his name in Joe when he started his solo carriere, because his Motown contract says Joe (the one daddy Joe took care of).
Since you seem to be so quick in shooting down anyones theory that doesn't jive with your "Joe" is a clue belief, why not enlighten us all and share your truth with us. Might save some of us the hassel of being involved in such a minor debate here. What is your point in this?
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The only thing I've said is that I don't believe that he changed his name when his solo carreer started, because his Motown contract says Joe... That's not shooting down someones theory, but giving an explanation.
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Actually I would like to turn it around.... We believe it MIGHT be a clue, why do you all shoot down MJJ's theory? In our country it is FORBIDDEN to use a nickname on ANY official paper whatsoever!
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The only people who trip over the Joe/Joeseph thing are folks who did not follow MJ in the J5 years. He was always Michael Joseph Jackson and I am not 16 nor 25 nor 30. Trust the old skool heads.
Agree! I'm 37, one of 8 (another 6 sisters and one brother). My sisters followed the Jacksons 5 from the beginning and as for as long as I can remember it has always been Michael Joseph Jackson.
Michael "Joe" Jackson or Michael "Joseph" Jackson. I honestly do not think it's as a big a deal as some are making it out to be. I believe they are one in the same person here. His FBI files use BOTH references Michael-Joseph and Michael-Joe. They are referring to the same person and were used interchangeably. 1993 allegations we all know were Michael. 2004 allegations we knew were Michael. One Michael, just different (and in my opinion, shortened) middle name.
I don't think it's a clue or has a hidden meaning. But that's just my opinion.
Then why does "joe" appear on documents as well?
As legal, full names have to be put in them...?!
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The only people who trip over the Joe/Joeseph thing are folks who did not follow MJ in the J5 years. He was always Michael Joseph Jackson and I am not 16 nor 25 nor 30. Trust the old skool heads.
Agree! I'm 37, one of 8 (another 6 sisters and one brother). My sisters followed the Jacksons 5 from the beginning and as for as long as I can remember it has always been Michael Joseph Jackson.
Michael "Joe" Jackson or Michael "Joseph" Jackson. I honestly do not think it's as a big a deal as some are making it out to be. I believe they are one in the same person here. His FBI files use BOTH references Michael-Joseph and Michael-Joe. They are referring to the same person and were used interchangeably. 1993 allegations we all know were Michael. 2004 allegations we knew were Michael. One Michael, just different (and in my opinion, shortened) middle name.
I don't think it's a clue or has a hidden meaning. But that's just my opinion.
Then why does "joe" appear on documents as well?
As legal, full names have to be put in them...?!
Honestly, I'm done with this Joe vs Joseph thing. You have your opinion and I have mine. Both opinions are supported with theories and documents that evidence both uses of names.
Seriously this debate is just going around and around in circles.
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Honestly, I'm done with this Joe vs Joseph thing. You have your opinion and I have mine. Both opinions are supported with theories and documents that evidence both uses of names.
Seriously this debate is just going around and around in circles.
It's your right to be done with it.
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Legally it makes not much difference we are taking about one in the same person the person who is stated to be dead, and the person we are talking about is the thriller guy> If he used shortened versions, it would make no difference a simple explanation to any court judge would be suffice - known as housekeeping.
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I agree with MJJ1982... The motown contract says joe, the copy of his passeport says joe, his mother in her book says joe, the papers in court say joe too... and in the fbi it's the twos ? I'm sorry I didn't go through all the file, I hadn't the time.
The one that really convinces me it's joe in the court papers ... the only thing I don't get is that in his marriage papers it says joseph ... Then it would be invalid? How does it work in the US? I don't know . To me, the performer has died but not the man ... And it would be legally important if he plans to come back. Because if he is really Michael Joe Jackson, then he is not officially dead because on papers it says "Michael Joseph Jackson", then he could not have "legal problem" regarding the hoax... (sorry if I haven't explained very well, it's so confusing ^^)
But that's only an opinion.I don't know much about the US system. This discussion will go on forever I think lol
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Why does his Motown contract say JOE? I mean, Joe (dad) was the one who took care of the papers...
It is just simple when Michael started his career he was very young not old enough to sign an official document (he wasn´t of full age and in America you must be 21 if it hasn´t been changed by now but then it was like that). So his father Joe did it because at this time he was his father AND manager. I think it is very clear why Michael could not have signed this paper but his parent. And since when are underage children allowed to sign documents...I Germny it is not allowed and I doubt that it is allowed in the USA especially children who had at that time no rights as they have today. So it is just logic. No speculation
I think you don't understand me... I'm not asking why Joe took care of the paperwork, but why Joe used the name Michael JOE Jackson.
I am sorry, I did not want to quote you. I picked it up just to underline my poit of view and after that I have just realized that I did not want to relate to your statement. Sorry for that it is just my mistake...
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No problem Shout ;)
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So is then this paper invalid too acording to some opinions here? The estate of Michael JOSEPH Jackson
http://www.jdsupra.com/documents/af0996 ... 54de17.pdf (http://www.jdsupra.com/documents/af099670-7802-4fd8-99c4-b1e42b54de17.pdf)
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So is then this paper invalid too acording to some opinions here? The estate of Michael JOSEPH Jackson
http://www.jdsupra.com/documents/af0996 ... 54de17.pdf (http://www.jdsupra.com/documents/af099670-7802-4fd8-99c4-b1e42b54de17.pdf)
Ofcourse it's not real, because he didn't die...
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I agree with MJJ1982... The motown contract says joe, the copy of his passeport says joe, his mother in her book says joe, the papers in court say joe too... and in the fbi it's the twos ? I'm sorry I didn't go through all the file, I hadn't the time.
The one that really convinces me it's joe in the court papers ... the only thing I don't get is that in his marriage papers it says joseph ... Then it would be invalid? How does it work in the US? I don't know . To me, the performer has died but not the man ... And it would be legally important if he plans to come back. Because if he is really Michael Joe Jackson, then he is not officially dead because on papers it says "Michael Joseph Jackson", then he could not have "legal problem" regarding the hoax... (sorry if I haven't explained very well, it's so confusing ^^)
But that's only an opinion.I don't know much about the US system. This discussion will go on forever I think lol
im agree with the comeback name theory ..
that's what im thinking about ..
when he won't have some problem with law ..
he need another name
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(http://pic1.dbw.cn/0/00/10/11/101171_660121.jpg)
(http://power953.com/images/2009/07/mj-will_o.jpg)
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(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.tmz.com/media/2009/10/1021_mj_will_sig_03_hilite_ex_02.jpg)
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[quote = "DaTrootWillPrevail"] [quote = "O-Drey-O"] Sono d'accordo con MJJ1982 ... Il contratto di motown, dice Joe, la copia del suo passeport dice Joe, sua madre nel suo libro, dice Joe, le carte in tribunale dice Joe troppo ... e l'FBI è il due a due? Mi dispiace di non passare attraverso tutti i file, non ho avuto il tempo.
Quello che veramente [/ b] mi convince è joe nei documenti di tribunale ... l'unica cosa che non capisco è che nelle sue carte matrimonio, dice Joseph ... Allora sarebbe non valida? Come funziona negli Stati Uniti? Io non lo so. Per me, l'artista è morto, ma non l'uomo ... E sarebbe giuridicamente importante se ha intenzione di tornare. Perché se è veramente Michael Joe Jackson, allora non è ufficialmente morto a causa sui documenti si dice "Michael Joseph Jackson", allora egli non avrebbe potuto "problema giuridico" per quanto riguarda la beffa ... (sorry se non mi sono spiegato molto bene, è così confusa ^ ^)
Ma questo è solo un opinion.I non so molto del sistema americano. Il dibattito andrà avanti per sempre penso lol [/ quote]
IM d'accordo con la teoria nome rimonta ..
questo è quello che im pensando ..
quando non avrà qualche problema con il diritto ..
ha bisogno di un altro nome [/ quote]
Hello :D
It is indeed a clue of where they are talking about on the forum, MjjForum.it.
Do I enter the web address:
http://mjjforum.it/forum/doppio-nome-jo ... post356751 (http://mjjforum.it/forum/doppio-nome-joe-o-joseph-t13044-3.html#post356751)
Nothing left to chance.
Michael Jackson had calculated everything.
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i can't say whether JOE/Joseph thingis a big deal or not... but what got me thinking is the fact that the TII youtube video shows michael's handwritten page that says Michael JOSEPH Jackson and then in the TII movie itself Michael thanks "Kathreen and JOSEPH" I mean Michael does not uses the nickname of his father though he called his father JOE in interview with Oprah.
Here I would also like to share with you guys that I read about some of the earlier lawsuits of Michael but some say 'Michael Jackson Vs XYZ', others say 'Michael Joseph Jackson Vs XYZ and still other says 'Michael Joe Jackson Vs XYZ'....I will try to post more information about it ...I don't remember if i saved the links...will have to check out the CDs. Once I get them i will post them if you like
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I am watching The Jacksons: An American Dream. It showed the scene where Katherine just gave birth to a baby (Michael). Katherine and her mother were trying to think of names. Katherine named him Michael Joesph Jackson. I always thought his legal name was Michael Joseph Jackson.
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I am watching The Jacksons: An American Dream. It showed the scene where Katherine just gave birth to a baby (Michael). Katherine and her mother were trying to think of names. Katherine named him Michael Joesph Jackson. I always thought his legal name was Michael Joseph Jackson.
Correct me if I'm wrong but in her book "My family, The Jacksons", Katherine mentions Michael as Michael Joe Jackson...
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For me the fact that his court documents, passport, and drivers license as well as the FBI report stating "whose true name was Michael Joe Jackson" all state Joe and not Joseph gives me enough to put my mind at ease that his true name was Michael Joe. However, I think that the only way we will EVER be able to truly end this debate is to have a copy of his birth certificate with his true given name on it. Unfortunately, I do not think that is going to happen so we will continue to debate this subject forever.
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For me the fact that his court documents, passport, and drivers license as well as the FBI report stating "whose true name was Michael Joe Jackson" all state Joe and not Joseph gives me enough to put my mind at ease that his true name was Michael Joe. However, I think that the only way we will EVER be able to truly end this debate is to have a copy of his birth certificate with his true given name on it. Unfortunately, I do not think that is going to happen so we will continue to debate this subject forever.
100% agree with you.
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I don't think anyone but close family can obtain a person's birth certificate.
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I just heard Katherine say in the movie "The Jacksons: An American Dream" Michael Joe Jackson and she repeated it twice. I always thought it was Michael Joseph Jackson.
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I just heard Katherine say in the movie "The Jacksons: An American Dream" Michael Joe Jackson and she repeated it twice. I always thought it was Michael Joseph Jackson.
Remember though that was an actress and not Katherine herself.
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Because it is a NICK NAME. His father's name is JOSEPH and they call him Joe! What difference does it make??? He was ALWAYS Michael Joseph Jackson since I was a child in the 1970's!!!! Lord Jesus!! :o
Not exactly a reply to this particular post, but I didn't want to quote that whole article. I wanted to say thank you for posting that article. I really love reading his interviews from back then. So many of the later years paint him so much a superstar that they forget he was a human being too.
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Any thoughts? This questioned was posted on a law site and specifically mentions california law in terms of "legal names"
What is defined as one's legal name? 09/19/07 - Category: - Name Change - State:Alabama #8876
Full Question:
What is defined as one's legal name? This is in regards to the Federal I.D. Act of 2005, renewing driver's license. The individual has been called by her middle name since birth while most legal documents are signed using her middle name, maiden family name and husband's family name. I was told by social security office that only the first name on a birth certificate is considered the legal name and the middle name is considered a "nickname"! If so, why have a middle name on birth certificate?
Answer; A legal name varies by state. Generally, the federal government recognizes the name change orders of each state. However, for purposes of the Real I.D. Act, the federal government has yet to issue a definition for legal name. It will likely do so, due to the variance among states for legal name requirements. For example, in California, a legal name may be acquired by usage, so that if a person uses their middle name since birth, that could be considered a legal name under California law.
See more Questions in the Name Change Category
Ask A Lawyer Online!
An attorney will answer your question - normally within 24 hours. Enter your question here... Customer Comments
"Thank you very much for your response. You are worth your weight in Gold." Michigan User
"Thank you so very much for your quick reply. Your answer made me feel so much better. It's kinda nice too, to hear from you that I'm doing okay with this. I sure hope. This legal stuff is mind boggling (certainly not my forte). I've considered writing their corporate headquarters, but want to save that for last. I so appreciate your last line. I will certainly question them and request that information. Bet'cha they don't have any! Again, thank you for your advice. Maybe I'll get some sleep tonight! Bless you."
Massachusetts User
http://answers.uslegal.com/questions.php?q=8876 (http://answers.uslegal.com/questions.php?q=8876)
And this : -
legal name
(n)
1
:a person's name that is usu. the name given at birth and recorded on the birth certificate but that may be a different name that is used by a person consistently and independently or that has been declared the person's name by a court If a person seeks to change a name by judicial process, the court may not deny the change absent any indication of a fraudulent purpose. In some states, a woman's legal name is presumed to include her husband's last name.
2
:the designation chosen by a business entity (as a corporation) and reported to the state (as in the articles of incorporation)
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And this from another law firm regarding "legal names"
Do not want to bother changing my name. Can I just use different versions of my name or initials?
Yes. Generally, it is sufficient to describe a person by any known or acceptable abbreviation of her name, and that includes initials. All states consider a person’s name to be her first and last name, allowing the substitution of either the correct initials or full middle name.
Can I start signing documents with my nickname?Y
Yes, as long as your nickname is commonly derived from your first name. For example, if your first name is William, it is acceptable to sign Bill on your documents. Your nickname must clearly identify you or the court will require additional proof that you are the person represented by the nickname in the event of any misunderstanding as to identity. To avoid any such misunderstandings, it is better to sign any important legal documents with your full name.
Up until now I have always used my middle name. Can I just stop using it?
Yes. The law favors first names-middle names are not considered important. Additionally, if a middle name is omitted from your signature, it is of no consequence your signature is still valid.
http://www.smartlegalforms.com/guide.asp?level=2&id=445 (http://www.smartlegalforms.com/guide.asp?level=2&id=445)
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ok i have here pics of Mj's US passports, please look and note his middlename here is Joe
[attachment=1:2oemlwr8]mjpassport.jpg[/attachment:2oemlwr8]
now look at this site, department of motor vehicules in California and read what documents are needed to obtain your drivers liscense :
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/brochures/fa ... ffdl05.htm (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/brochures/fast_facts/ffdl05.htm)
i've taken the liberty to copy and paste what appears to be most important:
Birth Date and Legal Presence and True Full Name Requirements
Why Is DMV So Careful About Identification?
The issue of identification—its reliability, integrity, confidentiality, etc. —is of prime concern to all citizens. The eligibility for government services, the issuance of various licenses, the assessment of taxes, the right to vote, etc., are all determined through evaluations based on identification documents.
It is critical that identification documents and systems be authentic and accurate in order to positively and uniquely identify each individual. The California legislature has declared the California driver license (DL) and identification (ID) card as the primary identification documents in this state. California state law requires that all applicants for an original California DL/ID card submit proof of legal presence in the United States (U.S.) as authorized under federal law. Your true full name, as shown on your legal presence document and/or your name change document, will appear on your DL/ID card. These requirements help safeguard the accuracy and integrity of the documents issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV).
Identity Requirements For an Original DL/ID Card
When you apply for an original California DL/ID card, you must present:
•An acceptable birth date/legal presence (BD/LP) document(s).
•An acceptable true full name document if the name of your BD/LP document is different from the name on your DL/ID card application.
•Your Social Security number (SSN). It will be verified with the Social Security Administration (SSA) while you are in the DMV office. You must also provide verification of your SSN to change an existing SSN on DMV’s date base
What is an Acceptable Document?
An acceptable birth date/legal presence or name change document is one produced by an issuing authority such as a county, state, or federal agency. Documents issued by Vital Statistics offices will be a certified copy of the original (the original is always retained by the issuing authority) and will contain an impressed seal or an original stamped impression. Other issuing agencies may issue you original documents. After being presented at a DMV office, your document will be returned to you. Do not make a copy of your BD/LP document, DMV does not accept photocopies of documents for birth date/legal presence or true full name verification.
List of Acceptable Birth Date/Legal Presence Documents
Present one of the following for a DL/ID card.
•US Birth Certificate or U. S. Passport
What is a True Full Name?
Your true full name appears on your BD/LP document. If you change your name, then you must provide one of the following Name Change documents to verify your name change:
•Adoption documents that contain the legal name as a result of the adoption.
•A name change document that contains the legal name both before and after the name change.
•Marriage certificate.
•Dissolution of marriage/domestic partnership document that contains the legal name as a result of the court action.
•A certificate, declaration, or registration document verifying the formation of a domestic partnership
now a drivers liscense ,bear in mind it's an old one
[attachment=0:2oemlwr8]51575169.jpg[/attachment:2oemlwr8]
now seeing as the FBI say his "true name" is Michael Joe Jackson and the fact that the DMV
for California state that a US Passport is an acceptable document to verify someones true name to obtain a drivers liscense and they are obviously serious about identification issues , and his passport states his name as Michael Joe Jackson,
and the DMV issued him a drivers liscense with Joe as his middlename, i'm thinking it's pretty clear that JOE is in fact his true middle name .
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I agree with you 100% but as I have said before, unless we are able to obtain a copy of his birth certificate, I don't think this subject will ever be settled. Both sides have logical reasons for their beliefs but I really wish that there was a way that we could get a copy of his BC just for clarification. Unfortunately, I do not believe that is possible.
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I agree true name Michael Joe Jackson joseph is a stage name.
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Sorry, but I take the advice from actual lawyers and law firms that deal with these senarios in real life. They all must be pretty useless law firms to advise potential and existing clients of such erroneous information then. There are more than just these law firms that say this. Google it and see. But that's just my opinion. Even if a genuine birth certificate did surface with the name "Michael Joseph Jackson" it would be argued as being fake by those that oppose that as his name and vice-versa.
Unless the documents support whatever theory you believe "Michael Joe" or "Michael Joseph" it will just keep going around and around circles.
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I agree true name Michael Joe Jackson joseph is a stage name.
You guys are not listening! Why would his name be Joseph on the WILL and on his children's birth certificates?? I posted the will. May I ask how old you are? I am not saying this to insult you but the only people that I find that get caught up on the Joe vs. Joseph thing did not grow up on the Jackson 5 or were not alive yet. Anyone who has been a die hard fan since the 70's always knew Michael as Michael Joseph Jackson. Whether it's Joe or Joseph is not going to change the OUTCOME.
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July 01, 2009
Last Will of Michael Joseph Jackson
Transcript of Michael Jackon's last will and testament.
LAST WILL
OF
MICHAEL JOSEPH JACKSON
I, MICHAEL JOSEPH JACKSON, a resident of the State of California, declare this to be my last Will, and do hereby revoke all former wills and codicils made by me.
I
I declare that I am not married. My marriage to DEBROAH JEAN ROWE JACKSON has been dissolved. I have three children now living, PRINCE MICHAEL JACKSON, JR., PARIS MICHAEL KATHERINE JACKSON and PRINCE MICHAEL JOSEPH JACKSON, 11. I have no other children, living or deceased.
II
It is my intention by this Will to dispose of all property which I am entitled to dispose of by will. I specifically refrain from exercising all powers of appointment that I may possess at the time of my death.
III
I give my entire estate to the Trustee or Trustees then acting under that certain Amended and Restated Declaration of Trust executed on March 22, 2002 by me as Trustee and Trustor which is called the MICHAEL JACKSON FAMILY TRUST, giving effect to my amendments thereto made prior to my death. All such assets shall be held, managed and distributed as a part of said Trust according to its terms and not as a separate testamentary trust.
If for any reason this gift is not operative or is invalid, or if the aforesaid Trust fails or has been revoked, I give my residuary estate to the Trustee or Trustees named to act in the MICHAEL JACKSON FAMILY TRUST, as Amended and Restated on March 22, 2002, and I direct said Trustee or Trustees to divide, administer, hold and distribute the trust estate pursuant to the provisions of said Trust, as hereinabove referred to as such provisions now exist to the same extent and in the same manner as though that certain Amended and Restated Declaration of Trust, were herein set forth in full, but without giving effect to any subsequent amendments after the date of this Will. The Trustee, Trustees, or any successor Trustee named in such Trust Agreement shall serve without bond.
IV
I direct that all federal estate taxes and state inheritance or succession taxes payable upon or resulting from or by reason of my death (herein "Death Taxes") attributable to property which is part of the trust estate of the MICHAEL JACKSON FAMILY TRUST, including property which passes to said trust from my probate estate shall be paid by the Trustee of said trust in accordance of terms. Death Taxes attributable to property passing outside this Will, other than property constituting the trust estate of the trust mentioned in the preceding sentence, shall be charged against the taker of said property.
V
I appoint JOHN BRANCA, JOHN MCCLAIN and BARRY SIEGEL as co-Executors of this Will. In the event of any of their deaths, resignations, inability, failure or refusal to serve or continue to serve as co-Executor, the other shall serve and no replacement need be named. The co-Executors serving at any time after my death may name one or more replacements to serve in the event that none of the three named individuals is willing or able to serve at any time.
The term "my executors" as used in this Will shall include any duly acting personal representative or representatives of my estate. No individual acting as such need post a bond.
I hereby give my Executors, full power and authority at any time or times to sell, lease, mortgage, pledge, exchange or otherwise dispose of the property, whether real or personal comprising my estate, upon such terms as my Executor shall deem best, to continue any business enterprises, to purchase assets from my estate, to continue in force and pay insurance premiums on any insurance policy, including life insurance, owned by my estate, and for any of the foregoing purposes to make, execute and deliver any and all deeds, contracts, mortgages, bills of sale or other instruments necessary or desirable therefore. In addition, I give my Executors full power to invest and reinvest the estate funds and assets in any kind of property, real, personal or mixed, and every kind of investment, specifically including, but not by way of limitation, corporate obligations of every kind and stocks, preferred or common, and interests in investments trusts and share in investment companies, and any common trust fund administered by any corporate executor hereunder, which men of prudent discretion and intelligence acquire of their own account.
VI
Except as otherwise provided in this Will or in the Trust referred to in Article III hereof, I have intentionally omitted to provide for my heirs. I have intentionally omitted to provide for my former wife, DEBORAH JEAN ROWE JACKSON.
VII
If at the time of my death I own or have an interest in property located outside of the State of California requiring ancillary administration, I appoint my domiciliary Executors as ancillary Executors for such property. I give to said domiciliary Executors the following additional powers, rights and privileges to be exercised in their sole and absolute discretion with reference to such property: to cause such ancillary administration to be commenced, carried on and completed; to determine what assets, if any, are to be sold by the ancillary Executors; to pay directly or to advance funds from the California estate to the ancillary Executors for the payment of all claims, taxes, costs and administration expenses, including compensation of the ancillary Executors and attorneys’ fees incurred by reason of the ownership of such property and by such ancillary administration; and upon completion of such ancillary administration, I authorize and direct the ancillary Executors to distribute, transfer and deliver the residue of such property to the domiciliary Executors herein, to be distributed by them under the terms of this Will, it being my intention that my entire estate shall be administered as a unit and that my domiciliary Executors shall supervise and control, so far as permissible by local law, any ancillary administration proceedings deemed necessary in the settlement of my estate.
VIII
If any of my children are minors at the time of my death, I nominate my mother, KATHERINE JACKSON as guardian of the persons and estates of such minor children. If KATHERINE JACKSON fails to survive me, or is unable or unwilling to act as guardian, I nominate DIANA ROSS as guardian of the persons and estates of such minor children.
I subscribe my name to this Will this 7 day of July, 2002
Signed ‘Michael Joseph Jackson’
On the date written below, MICHAEL JOSEPH JACKSON, declared to us, the undersigned, that the foregoing instrument consisting of five (5) pages, including the page singed by us as witnesses, was his Will and requested us to act as witnesses to it. He thereupon signed this Will in our presence, all of us being present at the same time. We now, at his request, in his presence and in the presence of each other, subscribe our names as witnesses.
Each of us is now more than eighteen (18) years of age and a competent witness and resides at the address set forth after his name.
Each of us is acquainted with MICHAEL JOSEPH JACKSON. At this time, he is over the age of eighteen (18) years and, to the best of our knowledge, he is of sound mind and is not acting under duress, menace, fraud, misrepresentation or undue influence.
We declare under penalty of purgery that the foregoing is true and correct.
Executed on July 7th, 2002 at 5:00 p.m., Los Angeles
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http://www.worthpoint.com/worth-points/ ... e-auctione (http://www.worthpoint.com/worth-points/jackson-presley-marriage-certificate-to-be-auctione)
(http://scoop.diamondgalleries.com/public/news_images/4/88902_235970_1.jpg)
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the passport is a big evidence that his real name is "JOE" legally you cannot use aliases in documents such as passports, and you cannot obtain a passport without supporting documents such as birth certifate, driver's license and others.I found this somewhere, it still it says JOE, just don't know if if its legit
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I have a different name on my passport that is not on my birth certificate. So explain that??? I have a different name on my drivers lisence. HOW old are you? Again, I ask this not to insult but if you were around in the 1970's you would know that he was always Michael Joseph jackson. This is stupid. A Motown employee card means nothing. I have put a different spelling of my middle name on my emplyee ID's as well. My drivers license and my State ID have 2 different names and my social security card is totally different than my drivers license. :roll:
Both names are VALID.
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(http://www.entertainmentwise.com/photos/Image/spl117572_001430.jpg)
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I have a different name on my passport that is not on my birth certificate. So explain that??? I have a different name on my drivers lisence. HOW old are you? Again, I ask this not to insult but if you were around in the 1970's you would know that he was always Michael Joseph jackson. This is stupid. A Motown employee card means nothing. I have put a different spelling of my middle name on my emplyee ID's as well. My drivers license and my State ID have 2 different names and my social security card is totally different than my drivers license. :roll:
Both names are VALID.
Well 1st of all, I'm 30. Old enough I guess, I am a lawyer by profession but I am not from the US. If that is the regulation in your country, that you can legally use many names, then there's nothing I can do about it. We are both here to investigate the hoax and I believe opinions are all welcome. To me he is Michael JOE and that is my opinion, respect that, as I respect yours. Thank You.
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I have a different name on my passport that is not on my birth certificate. So explain that??? I have a different name on my drivers lisence. HOW old are you? Again, I ask this not to insult but if you were around in the 1970's you would know that he was always Michael Joseph jackson. This is stupid. A Motown employee card means nothing. I have put a different spelling of my middle name on my emplyee ID's as well. My drivers license and my State ID have 2 different names and my social security card is totally different than my drivers license. :roll:
Both names are VALID.
Well 1st of all, I'm 30. Old enough I guess, I am a lawyer by profession but I am not from the US. If that is the regulation in your country, that you can legally use many names, then there's nothing I can do about it. We are both here to investigate the hoax and I believe opinions are all welcome. To me he is Michael JOE and that is my opinion, respect that, as I respect yours. Thank You.
I'm 38 years old and have also always thought his middle name to be Joseph , however with all that is going on since june 25th i sense that this issue could be of major importance and could very well change the outcome.
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I have a different name on my passport that is not on my birth certificate. So explain that??? I have a different name on my drivers lisence. HOW old are you? Again, I ask this not to insult but if you were around in the 1970's you would know that he was always Michael Joseph jackson. This is stupid. A Motown employee card means nothing. I have put a different spelling of my middle name on my emplyee ID's as well. My drivers license and my State ID have 2 different names and my social security card is totally different than my drivers license. :roll:
Both names are VALID.
Well 1st of all, I'm 30. Old enough I guess, I am a lawyer by profession but I am not from the US. If that is the regulation in your country, that you can legally use many names, then there's nothing I can do about it. We are both here to investigate the hoax and I believe opinions are all welcome. To me he is Michael JOE and that is my opinion, respect that, as I respect yours. Thank You.
The fact that you are not from the USA says a lot. And you would not recall Jackson 5 era materials in Right On Magazine, Ebony, Jet or Black Beat from the 1970's or early 80's. Now I understand your perspective. Thank you.
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I have a different name on my passport that is not on my birth certificate. So explain that??? I have a different name on my drivers lisence. HOW old are you? Again, I ask this not to insult but if you were around in the 1970's you would know that he was always Michael Joseph jackson. This is stupid. A Motown employee card means nothing. I have put a different spelling of my middle name on my emplyee ID's as well. My drivers license and my State ID have 2 different names and my social security card is totally different than my drivers license. :roll:
Both names are VALID.
Well 1st of all, I'm 30. Old enough I guess, I am a lawyer by profession but I am not from the US. If that is the regulation in your country, that you can legally use many names, then there's nothing I can do about it. We are both here to investigate the hoax and I believe opinions are all welcome. To me he is Michael JOE and that is my opinion, respect that, as I respect yours. Thank You.
I'm 38 years old and have also always thought his middle name to be Joseph , however with all that is going on since june 25th i sense that this issue could be of major importance and could very well change the outcome.
Thank YOU!!! ;)
Sadly, nothing is going to change the outcome, be it Joe or Joseph. Neither name should be a sign for anyone about anything. Alive or dead, MJ is never coming back. So Joe or Joseph will not bring him back or make him more or less alive.
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on the contrary, i believe it to be a possible loophole FOR an eventual comeback.
As you have seen the DC where it say's Joseph is his middle name, you will also have seen that his social security nr is blacked out.As you may also have seen on TMZ they show you a letter from Harold Weitzman to Joe Jackson 's lawyer Brian Oxman. Joe and his lawyer had supoena'd UCLA for any medical documentation concerning Michael and thus Harold Weitzman sent a feisty letter to Oxman that showed he was particularly angry at the demands as they violate MJ's privacy ESPECIALLY the fact that they put MJ's social security nr on the papers for all to see.Well as you can check for yourself online on the social security death index it's there for EVERYONE to see, so why the big stink?
Could it be that the ss nr on the index is not the same nr that was on the supoena? And on the death certificate? Did TMZ fabricate this letter from Weitzman to Oxman? I've seen a reply to an email from a forum member from Mr Weitzman , she asked him "how does TMZ get hold of all these documents, he answered that they must have got them from Mr Oxman or Mr Joe Jackson. He did not say they were fabricated so I believe them to be real. So if that is a possibility that there is something up with the ss nr then i believe it's also a possibility that there is something up with the middle name issue and i also believe that it COULD change the outcome.Now there are people here who don't believe MJ will come back so therefor it is logical that these people don't think the Joe/Joseph issue will make a difference which is fine IF that is what you believe, for those who do think it could make a difference in the outcome they are entitled to research this and debate on this without having their ages questioned for whatever reason. Let the people here decide for themselves what they want to spend their time on or not.
Peace :)
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using Joseph, specially in documents such as marriage contract,and now the death certificate is an old school legal escape goat, in any country. And Michael is a very wise man. ;)
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exactly!
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The fact that you are not from the USA says a lot. And you would not recall Jackson 5 era materials in Right On Magazine, Ebony, Jet or Black Beat from the 1970's or early 80's. Now I understand your perspective. Thank you.
I'm sorry, but just because people didn't follow (or weren't born) in de J5 era means that they know less than you? I think EVERYONE knows him as JOSEPH, but who says that's his real name? Have you ever seen a birth certificate? And who says that the will and bc's from the children are real?
You're not allowed to use a deterioration (if JOE is one)when you're under oath in court...
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Mark my words. He's NEVER COMING back. Joe vs. Joseph does not matter....
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You're not allowed to use a deterioration (if JOE is one)when you're under oath in court...
Absolutely Correct :D
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So that makes The Will, The children's Birth Certificates and the Marriage license all invalid and all other court documents with Michael Joseph on it. Either way, he still isn't coming back. :roll: Be it Joe or Joseph he could still legally have a valid death certificate under either name according to California State law. Each state has varied governing laws.
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Be it Joe or Joseph he could still legally have a valid death certificate under either name according to California State law. Each state has varied governing laws.
Souza posted it somewhere: BOTH names have to be on the dc.
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Here's the thread on mjkit:
http://mjkit.forumotion.net/michael-s-d ... -t2037.htm (http://mjkit.forumotion.net/michael-s-death-certificate-f25/here-is-what-must-be-stated-on-a-death-certificate-no-more-confussion-joe-or-joseph-but-both-t2037.htm)
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Right and the legla name is on it which is Michael Joseph Jackson. No tricks there!! :mrgreen:
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[attachment=0:2gwua14r]2009_06_27_RO-SP-T-20090270001.JPG[/attachment:2gwua14r]
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idk, i always thought it was joseph, but while watching the jacksons : an american dream, when his mother and grandmother were naming him, the grandmother said name him ronald, his mom said no, grandmom said what about donald, his mother said no again, then finally his grandmom said what about michael, mom katherine said, michael, now thats better, michael joe jackson. then i thought about the fuss over his name being joseph or joe, and i came to the conclusion that it must be joe. watch for yourself, and see what you think...
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idk, i always thought it was joseph, but while watching the jacksons : an american dream, when his mother and grandmother were naming him, the grandmother said name him ronald, his mom said no, grandmom said what about donald, his mother said no again, then finally his grandmom said what about michael, mom katherine said, michael, now thats better, michael joe jackson. then i thought about the fuss over his name being joseph or joe, and i came to the conclusion that it must be joe. watch for yourself, and see what you think...
You are right so far, but the diskussion is about wether Joe is a shortcut of Joseph.
Here is the link (just in german at 6:46 of this video Michael is born). It is so sad to watch it again. His father Joseph was always called Joe instead of Joseph. This is a great find nevertheless! Thank you. So we must just compare the middlenames of his other brothers and sisters. This is a great find!!!
[youtube:2in9c60e]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puny0D1NRXE&feature=PlayList&p=AB77B1B4CEFC5CD8&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=1[/youtube:2in9c60e]
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It makes me smile. There is clearly said Joe... (three times)but in the film Katherine says Joseph not Joe to Michaels father.
So why should she shorten Michaels middlename if he was named Joseph...
It gives me so much hope. I hope I was wrong with my thoughts about Joseph..
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MJJ Productions:
Black and White Nr.7 Page 28
...
MJJ Productions is tha name of his own company. It stands for Michael Joseph Jackson, Joseph is Michaels second name.
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Yes,he is Michael Joseph Jackson,and has been that since day one.
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idk, i always thought it was joseph, but while watching the jacksons : an american dream, when his mother and grandmother were naming him, the grandmother said name him ronald, his mom said no, grandmom said what about donald, his mother said no again, then finally his grandmom said what about michael, mom katherine said, michael, now thats better, michael joe jackson. then i thought about the fuss over his name being joseph or joe, and i came to the conclusion that it must be joe. watch for yourself, and see what you think...
Yeah she did say that when she's naming him. I saw that movie too and she did say Michael Joe Jackson. That's kinda cute that she didn't know what to name him because they had so many kids they ran out of names. They didn't believe in birth control back then.
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When I was looking at anna nichols audtopisy reports it had ALL the names she was ever refered to in life birth name stage name nicknames marriage name. So this makes no sense to me why MJ's did'nt? ;)
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Yes,he is Michael Joseph Jackson,and has been that since day one.
Do you have proof? No one has ever seen his birth certificate or whatever. If his name was Joseph, then they would have put that name on legal papers and use it in court.
I believe what Michael said. They asked him his name in court, and he said JOE.
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it make no difference -
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it make no difference -
I don't believe that. You can't shorten your name on legal papers.
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it make no difference -
I don't believe that. You can't shorten your name on legal papers.
believe made it does not make much difference - if you have an explanation
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In the video of Michael's marriage with Lisa they also say Joseph....
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In the video of Michael's marriage with Lisa they also say Joseph....
Ok, but why can we only see the name JOE on his legal papers?
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i think there are several threads on this before
i may help to look at this
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Yes,he is Michael Joseph Jackson,and has been that since day one.
Do you have proof? No one has ever seen his birth certificate or whatever. If his name was Joseph, then they would have put that name on legal papers and use it in court.
I believe what Michael said. They asked him his name in court, and he said JOE.
Yes I do,Michael always refered to himself as Michael Joseph Jackson,I heard him say it with my own ears,that's his legal name, Joe is a shortened version,I am a life long Jackson fan,he rarely used Joe,it was always Joseph.
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it make no difference -
I don't believe that. You can't shorten your name on legal papers.
Exactly MJJ1982 you cannot shorten your name it's the law, he is Michael JOE Jackson.
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Yes,he is Michael Joseph Jackson,and has been that since day one.
Do you have proof? No one has ever seen his birth certificate or whatever. If his name was Joseph, then they would have put that name on legal papers and use it in court.
I believe what Michael said. They asked him his name in court, and he said JOE.
Yes I do,Michael always refered to himself as Michael Joseph Jackson,I heard him say it with my own ears,that's his legal name, Joe is a shortened version,I am a life long Jackson fan,he rarely used Joe,it was always Joseph.
And I heard him say with my own ears Michael JOE Jackson when he was in court.
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With proof I mean a legal document, most likely a birth certificate!
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My mother says she remebers it to have been Joe and was surprised about the Joseph. I myself always thought it was Joseph, but in The Jacksons - An American Dream (produced by the Jacksons) Katherine names him Joe, in het book she says it's Joe, on his Motown pass it says Joe, on his contract concerning his catalogue it says Joe, so I think my mother is right, I think it has always been Joe.
But it's not important what he was named at birth, because you can change your name. On the 2005 court documents it clearly stated JOE, means this must have been his true name at that time. And I can't think of a reason to change it back to Joseph after that.
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MJJ Productions:
Black and White Nr.7 Page 28
...
MJJ Productions is tha name of his own company. It stands for Michael Joseph Jackson, Joseph is Michaels second name.
Joe is with a J as well...
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Souza you are right, you can change your name.
But I can't imagine that he was born as Joseph, then changed it to Joe, and then back to Joseph just before his 'death'... And his motown contract said Joe indeed, at that time he was way too young to change his name...
He's definately Michael Joe Jackson.
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MJJ Productions:
Black and White Nr.7 Page 28
...
MJJ Productions is tha name of his own company. It stands for Michael Joseph Jackson, Joseph is Michaels second name.
Joe is with a J as well...
Souza, are you sure???
:lol: ;)
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Very good point Souza, it's only since June 25th (that we know of) that MJ changed his name to "Joseph" and it doesn't make sense that he'd change it from Joe to Joseph for no apparant reason. If Michael Joseph Jackson died then legally Michael Joe Jackson is still alive.
I've a headache from all of this!!
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I think this Joe/Joseph thing is very important. I have the feeling that we sometimes look too deep into things, and in the meanwhile the truth is in front of our eyes but we just don't see it...
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I think this Joe/Joseph thing is very important. I have the feeling that we sometimes look too deep into things, and in the meanwhile the truth is in front of our eyes but we just don't see it...
You know I think the exact same thing!
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Yes,he is Michael Joseph Jackson,and has been that since day one.
Do you have proof? No one has ever seen his birth certificate or whatever. If his name was Joseph, then they would have put that name on legal papers and use it in court.
I believe what Michael said. They asked him his name in court, and he said JOE.
Yes I do,Michael always refered to himself as Michael Joseph Jackson,I heard him say it with my own ears,that's his legal name, Joe is a shortened version,I am a life long Jackson fan,he rarely used Joe,it was always Joseph.
And I heard him say with my own ears Michael JOE Jackson when he was in court.
What da hell does it matter they are both him,jeeez.
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I believe that he hated his father, and that is why he always says Joe...
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MJJ Productions:
Black and White Nr.7 Page 28
...
MJJ Productions is tha name of his own company. It stands for Michael Joseph Jackson, Joseph is Michaels second name.
Joe is with a J as well...
Oh really? I think I missed that... :roll:
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What da hell does it matter they are both him,jeeez.
And THAT is just the question! One time he uses JOE, the other time it is JOSEPH. In my country you always have to use your full names at official moments, like in court, in your passport a.s.o. What if Michael JOSEPH Jackson died, then Michael JOE Jackson would still be alive, if JOE is his real name. That would mean that he didnt fake his own dead, so it wouldnt be illegal......
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In the copyright catalog all names are used... :shock:
Michael Joe Jackson :
http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebre ... C=20&SID=9 (http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?SC=Author&SA=Jackson%2C%20Michael&PID=ej7Hzwk7UtIhXsLC45DdqTEMQlya&BROWSE=14&HC=20&SID=9)
1958 -
http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebre ... C=21&SID=9 (http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?SC=Author&SA=Jackson%2C%20Michael&PID=ej7Hzwk7UtIhXsLC45DdqTEMQlya&BROWSE=15&HC=21&SID=9)
Michael Joseph Jackson....weird..i don't know much of this...some are older...he can't be Michael, but i show you :
http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebre ... HC=8&SID=9 (http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?SC=Author&SA=Jackson%2C%20Michael&PID=ej7Hzwk7UtIhXsLC45DdqTEMQlya&BROWSE=19&HC=8&SID=9)
http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebre ... HC=1&SID=9 (http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?SC=Author&SA=Jackson%2C%20Michael&PID=ej7Hzwk7UtIhXsLC45DdqTEMQlya&BROWSE=20&HC=1&SID=9)
http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebre ... HC=1&SID=9 (http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?SC=Author&SA=Jackson%2C%20Michael&PID=ej7Hzwk7UtIhXsLC45DdqTEMQlya&BROWSE=21&HC=1&SID=9)
http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebre ... HC=1&SID=9 (http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?SC=Author&SA=Jackson%2C%20Michael&PID=ej7Hzwk7UtIhXsLC45DdqTEMQlya&BROWSE=23&HC=1&SID=9)
Michael J Jackson...it's to much, please klick on the Names :
http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebre ... Qlya&SID=9 (http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?SEQ=20100309050329&BROWSEBACK=1&SC=Author&SA=Jackson%2C%20Michael&PID=ej7Hzwk7UtIhXsLC45DdqTEMQlya&SID=9)
And only Michael Jackson :
http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebre ... akMm&SID=9 (http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?SEQ=20100309051210&BROWSEBACK=1&SC=Author&SA=Jackson%2C%20Michael&PID=BQyTGJrHEv1pRwEUlbb-zeOxakMm&SID=9)
Why don't they use in this catalog different names ?
:shock: :shock: :shock:
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We all know that he's a genius, so there has to be a good reason why he's using 2 names.
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I have a tape recorded of a trial in Denver for an alleged copied dangerous song,and the judge reads "Michael joseph jackson"...Don't know what to think...
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In the copyright catalog all names are used... :shock:
Michael Joe Jackson :
http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebre ... C=20&SID=9 (http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?SC=Author&SA=Jackson%2C%20Michael&PID=ej7Hzwk7UtIhXsLC45DdqTEMQlya&BROWSE=14&HC=20&SID=9)
1958 -
http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebre ... C=21&SID=9 (http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?SC=Author&SA=Jackson%2C%20Michael&PID=ej7Hzwk7UtIhXsLC45DdqTEMQlya&BROWSE=15&HC=21&SID=9)
Michael Joseph Jackson....weird..i don't know much of this...some are older...he can't be Michael, but i show you :
http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebre ... HC=8&SID=9 (http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?SC=Author&SA=Jackson%2C%20Michael&PID=ej7Hzwk7UtIhXsLC45DdqTEMQlya&BROWSE=19&HC=8&SID=9)
http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebre ... HC=1&SID=9 (http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?SC=Author&SA=Jackson%2C%20Michael&PID=ej7Hzwk7UtIhXsLC45DdqTEMQlya&BROWSE=20&HC=1&SID=9)
http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebre ... HC=1&SID=9 (http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?SC=Author&SA=Jackson%2C%20Michael&PID=ej7Hzwk7UtIhXsLC45DdqTEMQlya&BROWSE=21&HC=1&SID=9)
http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebre ... HC=1&SID=9 (http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?SC=Author&SA=Jackson%2C%20Michael&PID=ej7Hzwk7UtIhXsLC45DdqTEMQlya&BROWSE=23&HC=1&SID=9)
Michael J Jackson...it's to much, please klick on the Names :
http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebre ... Qlya&SID=9 (http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?SEQ=20100309050329&BROWSEBACK=1&SC=Author&SA=Jackson%2C%20Michael&PID=ej7Hzwk7UtIhXsLC45DdqTEMQlya&SID=9)
And only Michael Jackson :
http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebre ... akMm&SID=9 (http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?SEQ=20100309051210&BROWSEBACK=1&SC=Author&SA=Jackson%2C%20Michael&PID=BQyTGJrHEv1pRwEUlbb-zeOxakMm&SID=9)
Why don't they use in this catalog different names ?
:shock: :shock: :shock:
Don´t understand what you are talking about...There is Michael Jackson mentioned no Miacheal Joseph Jackson or Michael Joe. Please explain, I do not see different names.
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I have a tape recorded of a trial in Denver for an alleged copied dangerous song,and the judge reads "Michael joseph jackson"...Don't know what to think...
There is almost everywhere Michael Joseph Jackson (Motown...well was it allowed that a child could sign that passport...I think not, so Joe simply signed it and could it be that the law was different then and no one really cared about short name or full name? Who knows. I am just interested) when it is about Michaels music business if I have understood it right...in some documents appears Michael Joe Jackson for e.g. at court...FBI...
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The only explanation I can think of, is that he used the name Joseph as artist. And Joe is his real name.
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What da hell does it matter they are both him,jeeez.
And THAT is just the question! One time he uses JOE, the other time it is JOSEPH. In my country you always have to use your full names at official moments, like in court, in your passport a.s.o. What if Michael JOSEPH Jackson died, then Michael JOE Jackson would still be alive, if JOE is his real name. That would mean that he didnt fake his own dead, so it wouldnt be illegal......
Good point but did anyone stop to think that maybe Michael copywrote his name under Joe and Joseph? You can do that after all there was another Michael Jackson,as a matter of fact there two.
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I believe that he hated his father, and that is why he always says Joe...
He didn't hate his father, he was just sad he didn't know his father the way he wanted to. Michael said it himself.
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I can't believe it that there is only Michael Jackson ...
When you surch for Michael, or Michael joe or Michael Joseph you allways found some copyrights....please surch for yourself if this link shows only Michael too.....
It's weird !
http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebre ... ichael+Joe (http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?SC=Author&SEQ=20100310095416&PID=RbpLINE7tcc2Q0_MBisdwpBjVS1Gu&SA=Jackson,+Michael+Joe)
20/21 x Michael Joe Jackson Copyright
10/1 x Michael Joseph Jackson Copyright
http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebre ... n,+Michael (http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?SC=Author&SEQ=20100310100327&PID=Y5IrHMTQ-s2eSquOcvaBnsq9XRcju&SA=Jackson,+Michael)
754 x Michael Jackson copyrights
It works...yeah...must see !!!!
Please click on the blue numbers for more informations...
Michael and Michael joe...ok there songs i know...michael joe with the Jackson's ....but Michael Joseph ? Look his copyrights....i don't know one of them...it can't be Michael but there is the Estate of Michael Joseph and the years 1958-2009....
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Michael Jackson or Michael Joe Jackson in the past is the one we know....BUT
Michael Joseph Jackson
isn't it !
In the copyright catalog you find all and Michael has the most copyrights, Michael Joe has copyrights from the time with the Jackson 5.
Michael Joseph Jackson has only a few and not one that i ever heard from.
But the Estate is named Michael Joseph Jackson.
The death certificate is from Michael Joseph Jackson.
The autopsie too ? I don't know it in this moment...
But i think the birth certificates are also from Michael Joseph Jackson.
Look at the Estate...from John Branca, but i don't understand all....need my dictionary...
http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebre ... C=1&SID=30 (http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?SC=Author&SA=The%20Estate%20of%20Michael%20Joseph%20Jackson&PID=Rq0EgWLm9pZvFuJcMuAJ8gnObTfsK&BROWSE=1&HC=1&SID=30)
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Thank you hopeless. I know the songs,
but Billy Jean??? It looks like it was written by somebody...the spelling is wrong
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Hello Shout,
yes the songs from Michael Joe Jackson we know, but look at the songs from this Michael Joseph Jackson
The Songs
http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebre ... =15&SID=37 (http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?SC=Author&SA=Jackson%2C%20Michael%20Joe&PID=3LZY9_HU6qfaCq2KTq_2ZwY7XMEHc&BROWSE=9&HC=15&SID=37)
I don't know them and at this name is noticed the Estate....it looks like a absolutly different person...he has only copyrights from 1992 - 1994 and then the Estate.
The overview :
http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebre ... =15&SID=35 (http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?SC=Author&SA=Jackson%2C%20Michael%20Joe&PID=GuO1P0dJnWgFjWeSlW0eOE184owdm&BROWSE=9&HC=15&SID=35)
The Estate:
http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebre ... C=1&SID=35 (http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?SC=Author&SA=Jackson%2C%20Michael%20Joe&PID=9XdISipWymZyXsJGeyYC5vauikBPU&BROWSE=10&HC=1&SID=35)
Sorry, i can't explain and i am sure nobody understand what i mean....i was never noticed because my english is a desaster.... i am so sorry...
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I've posted this before, the whole Joe/Joseph issue is irrelevant.
Even when the only true name is the name that is written on a birth certificate, official documents often contain misspellings in the name, even death certificates. Death certificates often contain the name the person was known for or how they used to call themselves. I've seen hundreds of death certificates, and an alternate name or name spelling does NOT make the death certificate document less valid.
Whether his name was Joe or Joseph therefore is TOTALLY IRRELEVANT. If the name on his birthcertificate spells "Michael Joseph Jackson", than that is his legal name. However he may have abbreviated it later in life as "Joe" and used it on legal documents. For the same reason, his name may have appeared on the death certificate as "Michael Joe Jackson".
You simply CAN'T conclude that because the name on the death certificate is "Michael Joe Jackson" that it does not concern Michael!
Another thing to one of the posters above about the legality of hoaxing a death: when someone is under OFFICIAL protection they can LEGALLY obtain a new identity.[/u][/color]
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Hello Shout,
yes the songs from Michael Joe Jackson we know, but look at the songs from this Michael Joseph Jackson
The Songs
http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebre ... =15&SID=37 (http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?SC=Author&SA=Jackson%2C%20Michael%20Joe&PID=3LZY9_HU6qfaCq2KTq_2ZwY7XMEHc&BROWSE=9&HC=15&SID=37)
I don't know them and at this name is noticed the Estate....it looks like a absolutly different person...he has only copyrights from 1992 - 1994 and then the Estate.
The overview :
http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebre ... =15&SID=35 (http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?SC=Author&SA=Jackson%2C%20Michael%20Joe&PID=GuO1P0dJnWgFjWeSlW0eOE184owdm&BROWSE=9&HC=15&SID=35)
The Estate:
http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebre ... C=1&SID=35 (http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?SC=Author&SA=Jackson%2C%20Michael%20Joe&PID=9XdISipWymZyXsJGeyYC5vauikBPU&BROWSE=10&HC=1&SID=35)
Sorry, i can't explain and i am sure nobody understand what i mean....i was never noticed because my english is a desaster.... i am so sorry...
I think I understand what you mean. Maybe you do not know the songs but I do most of them. This underlines that the description does not belong to unknown songs, because they are popular and I bet a lot MJ fans know the songs which are presented there. Look up the songs which you do not know and learn more about them.
It is still weird why there is Joe...I believe it was done by someone on the inet, maybe the infos are fake. I do not know...
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I've posted this before, the whole Joe/Joseph issue is irrelevant.
Even when the only true name is the name that is written on a birth certificate, official documents often contain misspellings in the name, even death certificates. Death certificates often contain the name the person was known for or how they used to call themselves. I've seen hundreds of death certificates, and an alternate name or name spelling does NOT make the death certificate document less valid.
Whether his name was Joe or Joseph therefore is TOTALLY IRRELEVANT. If the name on his birthcertificate spells "Michael Joseph Jackson", than that is his legal name. However he may have abbreviated it later in life as "Joe" and used it on legal documents. For the same reason, his name may have appeared on the death certificate as "Michael Joe Jackson".
You simply CAN'T conclude that because the name on the death certificate is "Michael Joe Jackson" that it does not concern Michael!
Another thing to one of the posters above about the legality of hoaxing a death: when someone is under OFFICIAL protection they can LEGALLY obtain a new identity.[/u][/color]
Thank you for sharing! I think it expalins everything!
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Whether his name was Joe or Joseph therefore is TOTALLY IRRELEVANT. If the name on his birthcertificate spells "Michael Joseph Jackson", than that is his legal name. However he may have abbreviated it later in life as "Joe" and used it on legal documents. For the same reason, his name may have appeared on the death certificate as "Michael Joe Jackson".
You simply CAN'T conclude that because the name on the death certificate is "Michael Joe Jackson" that it does not concern Michael!
He didn't change his name in later life into Joe, because that name is also on his Motown contract. At that time, he was too young to change his name.
And where's a dc with the name JOE on it? I haven't seen it...
For legal things (and when he was young) he used the name Joe. So that's why I think that he was born as Joe. In later life he decided to use another name for his other 'person', the business man. That's possible, because there are a lot of artists that use an other name in business than in their private life.
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Whether his name was Joe or Joseph therefore is TOTALLY IRRELEVANT. If the name on his birthcertificate spells "Michael Joseph Jackson", than that is his legal name. However he may have abbreviated it later in life as "Joe" and used it on legal documents. For the same reason, his name may have appeared on the death certificate as "Michael Joe Jackson".
You simply CAN'T conclude that because the name on the death certificate is "Michael Joe Jackson" that it does not concern Michael!
He didn't change his name in later life into Joe, because that name is also on his Motown contract. At that time, he was too young to change his name.
And where's a dc with the name JOE on it? I haven't seen it...
For legal things (and when he was young) he used the name Joe. So that's why I think that he was born as Joe. In later life he decided to use another name for his other 'person', the business man. That's possible, because there are a lot of artists that use an other name in business than in their private life.
I did not state the name on the death certificate WAS "Michael Joe Jackson". I gave it as an example of how a name can be different on a death certificate or other legal documents from that on a birth certificate. You're getting into the "what was on the death certificate" and "what was on the birth certificate" again. You're missing the point I'm afraid.
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Whether his name was Joe or Joseph therefore is TOTALLY IRRELEVANT. If the name on his birthcertificate spells "Michael Joseph Jackson", than that is his legal name. However he may have abbreviated it later in life as "Joe" and used it on legal documents. For the same reason, his name may have appeared on the death certificate as "Michael Joe Jackson".
You simply CAN'T conclude that because the name on the death certificate is "Michael Joe Jackson" that it does not concern Michael!
He didn't change his name in later life into Joe, because that name is also on his Motown contract. At that time, he was too young to change his name.
And where's a dc with the name JOE on it? I haven't seen it...
For legal things (and when he was young) he used the name Joe. So that's why I think that he was born as Joe. In later life he decided to use another name for his other 'person', the business man. That's possible, because there are a lot of artists that use an other name in business than in their private life.
I did not state the name on the death certificate WAS "Michael Joe Jackson". I gave it as an example of how a name can be different on a death certificate or other legal documents from that on a birth certificate. You're getting into the "what was on the death certificate" and "what was on the birth certificate" again. You're missing the point I'm afraid.
I'm not missing the point, I do understand what you mean. But there's more than just this logic explanation.
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I found this :
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxdeath.net/ ... f=64&t=283 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxdeath.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=283)
In his passports his name was Michael Joe Jackson.....it is so confused...i have not so much time to surch all the documents and make a list...
The driver licence ...also Michael Joe Jackson :
http://twitpic.com/upfnl (http://twitpic.com/upfnl)
If he was identified at the UCLA with his drivers licence...why are they using the name Michael Joseph Jackson ?
Who is Michael Joseph Jackson ?
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Wonder why his name on the death certificate is Michael Joseph Jackon and the name on the birth certificates from the kids is the father Michael Joseph...the Estate is the Estate from Michael Joseph Jackson.
In 2005 here was the photo from the Sheriffs Depart., only Michael Jackson....and the HGT was 511,
in the drivers licence from Michael Joe Jackson HGT was 509...i don't know this . Is there a great difference ?
http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2009/s ... kson-4.jpg (http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2009/specials/michaeljackson/eccentric/michael-jackson-4.jpg)
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I found this :
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxdeath.net/ ... f=64&t=283 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxdeath.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=283)
In his passports his name was Michael Joe Jackson.....it is so confused...i have not so much time to surch all the documents and make a list...
The driver licence ...also Michael Joe Jackson :
http://twitpic.com/upfnl (http://twitpic.com/upfnl)
If he was identified at the UCLA with his drivers licence...why are they using the name Michael Joseph Jackson ?
Who is Michael Joseph Jackson ?
THE DIFFERENCES DO NOT MATTER, please read my post above, it is not relevant!
The name on his birthcertificate, his legal name, may have been "Michael Joseph Jackson".
He may have used the name "Joe" whenever he pleased on other legal documents such as his driver licence, that is not uncommon. Joe is short for Joseph. Mike is short for Michael. If he used to call himself Mike, that would also be OK. The name on the death certificate may have been different from the driver's license because of LaToya, since she knows his true legal birth name. LaToya was the familymember that co-signed the death certificate.
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I never saw a birth certificate from Michael Jackson....have you a link ?
Sorry i am german....here you must allways use the same name on official documents...
I don't know why the links from the copyright catalog are not working for long and why you see not what i see when i put the link in my post. :cry:
I find no logical way in all this.
Michael Jackson was born as Michael Joseph ? ok.
Why he use the name Michael Joe in the early years with the Jacksons in the copyright catalog ?
There are some songs registrated in the catalog that we all know from the Jacksons on the name Michael Joe.
Most of his songs, released or not dosn't matter are registrated on the name Michael Jackson.
And then...why he use the name Michael Joseph only for 20 songs in the years 1992-1994 ? These songs i never heard and the names from the ppl who are working with him...never heard.
The logical way was his name Joseph in the early years, because he was very young and used his birth name....why take it official for copyrights in the 90'th years ?
Is it rearly so unimportend to switch the names ?
Copyrights are very importend and the absolut correct name is very importend to get all the rights.
With love, Hopeless
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I read in an other forum that Katherine Jackson write in her Biographie that he was born as Michael Joe Jackson....i can't proof it, but when it was right....she must know.
Has anybody the Biographie ?
When he was born as Michael Joe, i think he must also buried as Michael Joe ?
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I never saw a birth certificate from Michael Jackson....have you a link ?
Sorry i am german....here you must allways use the same name on official documents...
I don't know why the links from the copyright catalog are not working for long and why you see not what i see when i put the link in my post. :cry:
I find no logical way in all this.
Michael Jackson was born as Michael Joseph ? ok.
Why he use the name Michael Joe in the early years with the Jacksons in the copyright catalog ?
There are some songs registrated in the catalog that we all know from the Jacksons on the name Michael Joe.
Most of his songs, released or not dosn't matter are registrated on the name Michael Jackson.
And then...why he use the name Michael Joseph only for 20 songs in the years 1992-1994 ? These songs i never heard and the names from the ppl who are working with him...never heard.
The logical way was his name Joseph in the early years, because he was very young and used his birth name....why take it official for copyrights in the 90'th years ?
Is it rearly so unimportend to switch the names ?
Copyrights are very importend and the absolut correct name is very importend to get all the rights.
With love, Hopeless
Yes ofcourse it would be ideal if there were no errors in documents. Especially in Germany they like it "punctlich", correct. However reality is, there are a lot of errors in documents, that's just how it is and it happens a lot.
How the errors happen? Some people may abbreviate their birth name because they don't like the full name. Or that is how their parents and family would call them. For instance Elisabeth would become Lisa, Michael would become Mike. Jan may fill in as his name Johannes because he thinks it is more 'chique' or 'official'. Then when they apply for a driver's license that is the name they will fill in as their name. Some people don't even know their own full birth name. This is/was especially the case when people could not read or write, which was often the case in the past. The clerc also may make an error in spelling of the name. Janet may be misspelled as Jaenet or Jaenette for instance. Also errors happen with dates or years.
This with the copyright thing, may have also been caused by someone else. If someone else registered for Michael, e.g. the secretary of the manager or a lawyer or what not, they may have filled in an incomplete or incorrect name. I have encountered this myself, when someone else did not fill in my full legal name since they were not aware of it or just sloppy and when I noticed it it was already finalised and too late to change. As a result, searching for this document with my full name is not successful.
Reality is, it happens a lot and it does not make a document less legal or valid.
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i always and will always believe that Michael Joe Jackson is his REAL NAME, and Michael Joseph is just his celebrity name... ;)
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I found this :
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxdeath.net/ ... f=64&t=283 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxdeath.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=283)
In his passports his name was Michael Joe Jackson.....it is so confused...i have not so much time to surch all the documents and make a list...
The driver licence ...also Michael Joe Jackson :
http://twitpic.com/upfnl (http://twitpic.com/upfnl)
If he was identified at the UCLA with his drivers licence...why are they using the name Michael Joseph Jackson ?
Who is Michael Joseph Jackson ?
THE DIFFERENCES DO NOT MATTER, please read my post above, it is not relevant!
The name on his birthcertificate, his legal name, may have been "Michael Joseph Jackson".
He may have used the name "Joe" whenever he pleased on other legal documents such as his driver licence, that is not uncommon. Joe is short for Joseph. Mike is short for Michael. If he used to call himself Mike, that would also be OK. The name on the death certificate may have been different from the driver's license because of LaToya, since she knows his true legal birth name. LaToya was the familymember that co-signed the death certificate.
He did not only use the name Joe on documents, but also in court when he was under oath!
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I found this :
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxdeath.net/ ... f=64&t=283 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxdeath.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=283)
In his passports his name was Michael Joe Jackson.....it is so confused...i have not so much time to surch all the documents and make a list...
The driver licence ...also Michael Joe Jackson :
http://twitpic.com/upfnl (http://twitpic.com/upfnl)
If he was identified at the UCLA with his drivers licence...why are they using the name Michael Joseph Jackson ?
Who is Michael Joseph Jackson ?
THE DIFFERENCES DO NOT MATTER, please read my post above, it is not relevant!
The name on his birthcertificate, his legal name, may have been "Michael Joseph Jackson".
He may have used the name "Joe" whenever he pleased on other legal documents such as his driver licence, that is not uncommon. Joe is short for Joseph. Mike is short for Michael. If he used to call himself Mike, that would also be OK. The name on the death certificate may have been different from the driver's license because of LaToya, since she knows his true legal birth name. LaToya was the familymember that co-signed the death certificate.
He did not only use the name Joe on documents, but also in court when he was under oath!
So what you want to do about that? Sue him?
THE DIFFERENCES DO NOT MATTER
You're on a wild goose chase
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So what you want to do about that? Sue him?
THE DIFFERENCES DO NOT MATTER
You're on a wild goose chase
:roll:
Why are you so convinced? If you are 100% convinced, then I'm sure that you can give us some proof.
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So what you want to do about that? Sue him?
THE DIFFERENCES DO NOT MATTER
You're on a wild goose chase
:roll:
Why are you so convinced? If you are 100% convinced, then I'm sure that you can give us some proof.
What sort of proof do you want? I have seen hundreds of death certificates and birthcertificates for that matter, I don't need to proof anything. This is the way these things go, this is reality. Don't want to believe it? Fine by me.
I'm ending this discussion, you just don't want to listen to reason.
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That you've seen hundreds of dc's and bc's, is no proof to me.
As far as I know, you are not allowed to use deteriorations in court.
Does anyone here know a lawyer in California? I've send an email to the court, but they didn't answer my question, they only said that I have to look through the 'help-topic's' on their website.
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Little example of another alternative spelling
http://elvisdecoded.blogspot.com/2010/0 ... lling.html (http://elvisdecoded.blogspot.com/2010/01/aaronspelling.html)
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So what you want to do about that? Sue him?
THE DIFFERENCES DO NOT MATTER
You're on a wild goose chase
:roll:
Why are you so convinced? If you are 100% convinced, then I'm sure that you can give us some proof.
What sort of proof do you want? I have seen hundreds of death certificates and birthcertificates for that matter, I don't need to proof anything. This is the way these things go, this is reality. Don't want to believe it? Fine by me.
I'm ending this discussion, you just don't want to listen to reason.
What do you mean with that, you have seen hunderds of dc/bc....so you're the expert? As far as I know, you are from the same country as I am, so explain yourself in Dutch. And then MAYBE we will listen to reason, right now I haven't read anything reasonable.
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So what you want to do about that? Sue him?
THE DIFFERENCES DO NOT MATTER
You're on a wild goose chase
:roll:
Why are you so convinced? If you are 100% convinced, then I'm sure that you can give us some proof.
What sort of proof do you want? I have seen hundreds of death certificates and birthcertificates for that matter, I don't need to proof anything. This is the way these things go, this is reality. Don't want to believe it? Fine by me.
I'm ending this discussion, you just don't want to listen to reason.
What do you mean with that, you have seen hunderds of dc/bc....so you're the expert? As far as I know, you are from the same country as I am, so explain yourself in Dutch. And then MAYBE we will listen to reason, right now I haven't read anything reasonable.
I've told my experience in here and what you want to do with the information I gave is totally up to you. Good luck.
Vertaling: als je mij voor leugenaar uit wilt maken zoek je het maar uit. Succes ermee.
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I agree with you Kuki!
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So what you want to do about that? Sue him?
THE DIFFERENCES DO NOT MATTER
You're on a wild goose chase
:roll:
Why are you so convinced? If you are 100% convinced, then I'm sure that you can give us some proof.
What sort of proof do you want? I have seen hundreds of death certificates and birthcertificates for that matter, I don't need to proof anything. This is the way these things go, this is reality. Don't want to believe it? Fine by me.
I'm ending this discussion, you just don't want to listen to reason.
What do you mean with that, you have seen hunderds of dc/bc....so you're the expert? As far as I know, you are from the same country as I am, so explain yourself in Dutch. And then MAYBE we will listen to reason, right now I haven't read anything reasonable.
I've told my experience in here and what you want to do with the information I gave is totally up to you. Good luck.
Vertaling: als je mij voor leugenaar uit wilt maken zoek je het maar uit. Succes ermee.
Nobody is calling you a liar, but we are asking for PROOF and all you come up with, is your so called expierence and a blog that everyone could have written.
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I dont like it when people place words in my mouth I didn't say. I didn't say you are a liar, I said you have to convice me. Not by words, but with evidence!
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So what you want to do about that? Sue him?
THE DIFFERENCES DO NOT MATTER
You're on a wild goose chase
:roll:
Why are you so convinced? If you are 100% convinced, then I'm sure that you can give us some proof.
What sort of proof do you want? I have seen hundreds of death certificates and birthcertificates for that matter, I don't need to proof anything. This is the way these things go, this is reality. Don't want to believe it? Fine by me.
I'm ending this discussion, you just don't want to listen to reason.
What do you mean with that, you have seen hunderds of dc/bc....so you're the expert? As far as I know, you are from the same country as I am, so explain yourself in Dutch. And then MAYBE we will listen to reason, right now I haven't read anything reasonable.
I've told my experience in here and what you want to do with the information I gave is totally up to you. Good luck.
Vertaling: als je mij voor leugenaar uit wilt maken zoek je het maar uit. Succes ermee.
Nobody is calling you a liar, but we are asking for PROOF and all you come up with, is your so called expierence and a blog that everyone could have written.
"So called experience"??? Like I said, zoek het lekker uit.
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What's up with the attitude? I really dont get it. I asked you a simple question and this is what I get?
*ignore*
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You don't have to get rude.
Everyone here is looking for proof/evidence for the possible hoax, and the name-thing is important to figure out to the bottom.
So unless you come with real proof, I don't believe you.
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Here, the AEG's contract. 2x Michael Jackson, and 2 different signatures.
http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/6888 ... agjpg1.jpg (http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/6888/aegvertragjpg1.jpg)
... and what does it mean?
http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/9347/michaeljoe.jpg (http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/9347/michaeljoe.jpg)
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ok i live in the united states, specifically in california. 3 things.
1. as far as i know, any dealings with the court system you have to use your full and legal name- no abbreviations are allowed.
2. you need a birth certificate and have to fill out government forms to obtain a passport. therefore, what is printed on your birth certificate is printed on your passport. it is a form of identification that requires the full legal name.
3. can we please remember that LATOYA signed the death certificate? this in itself is ridiculous. an example- my mother did not sign ANYWHERE on my grandma's death certificate. it's signed by the doctor and coroner. [my grandma died in california so i know the rules when it comes to this] the death certificate is NOT VALID.
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You don't have to get rude.
Everyone here is looking for proof/evidence for the possible hoax, and the name-thing is important to figure out to the bottom.
So unless you come with real proof, I don't believe you.
YOU have been very rude with the "I don't believe you" and "So called experience" remarks.
I have nothing to gain visiting this forum and am simply contributing with my personal experience and knowledge. If you desire to treat me hostile and suspicious because of that, fine, but don't expect to help you any further. Perhaps searching for death certificates, birth certificates and other legal documents such as court transcripts on internetdatabases such as geneology databases will teach you more. Or call a "so called expert" in your own city.
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ok i live in the united states, specifically in california. 3 things.
1. as far as i know, any dealings with the court system you have to use your full and legal name- no abbreviations are allowed.
2. you need a birth certificate and have to fill out government forms to obtain a passport. therefore, what is printed on your birth certificate is printed on your passport. it is a form of identification that requires the full legal name.
3. can we please remember that LATOYA signed the death certificate? this in itself is ridiculous. an example- my mother did not sign ANYWHERE on my grandma's death certificate. it's signed by the doctor and coroner. [my grandma died in california so i know the rules when it comes to this] the death certificate is NOT VALID.
1. In principle it is not allowed, but it does happen anyway.
3. Besides by a physician or coroner, a death certificate is co-signed by a witness that identified the decedent, usually a family member or acquaintance.
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Birth Date and Legal Presence and True Full Name Requirements
Why Is DMV So Careful About Identification?
The issue of identification—its reliability, integrity, confidentiality, etc. —is of prime concern to all citizens. The eligibility for government services, the issuance of various licenses, the assessment of taxes, the right to vote, etc., are all determined through evaluations based on identification documents.
It is critical that identification documents and systems be authentic and accurate in order to positively and uniquely identify each individual. The California legislature has declared the California driver license (DL) and identification (ID) card as the primary identification documents in this state. California state law requires that all applicants for an original California DL/ID card submit proof of legal presence in the United States (U.S.) as authorized under federal law. Your true full name, as shown on your legal presence document and/or your name change document, will appear on your DL/ID card. These requirements help safeguard the accuracy and integrity of the documents issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV).
Do You Need to Replace Documents?
If you need to replace or obtain your birth date/legal presence document, refer to the Vital Statistics information on the outside panels or http://www.vitalrec.com (http://www.vitalrec.com). Immigration-related service and benefit functions of the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) transitioned into the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) as the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS). The customer service phone number and website for USCIS is listed on the back panel.
Identity Requirements For an Original DL/ID Card
When you apply for an original California DL/ID card, you must present:
•An acceptable birth date/legal presence (BD/LP) document(s).
•An acceptable true full name document if the name of your BD/LP document is different from the name on your DL/ID card application.•Your Social Security number (SSN). It will be verified with the Social Security Administration (SSA) while you are in the DMV office. You must also provide verification of your SSN to change an existing SSN on DMV’s date base.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are 2 things possible:
1: He was born as Michael JOE Jackson
2: He was born as Michael JOSEPH Jackson, and changed his name into Michael JOE Jackson.
I think it's the first one, because he was too young to change his name during the Motown era.
In both cases he would die as Michael JOE Jackson, and his DC says Michael JOSEPH Jackson...
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ok i live in the united states, specifically in california. 3 things.
1. as far as i know, any dealings with the court system you have to use your full and legal name- no abbreviations are allowed.
2. you need a birth certificate and have to fill out government forms to obtain a passport. therefore, what is printed on your birth certificate is printed on your passport. it is a form of identification that requires the full legal name.
3. can we please remember that LATOYA signed the death certificate? this in itself is ridiculous. an example- my mother did not sign ANYWHERE on my grandma's death certificate. it's signed by the doctor and coroner. [my grandma died in california so i know the rules when it comes to this] the death certificate is NOT VALID.
1. In principle it is not allowed, but it does happen anyway.
3. Besides by a physician or coroner, a death certificate is co-signed by a witness that identified the decedent, usually a family member or acquaintance.
i disagree heavily. as i said, i have personal experience with this. but everyone's entitled to their own opinion.
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the website MichaelJosephJackson.com redirects you to MichaelJacksonLive.com (which is owned by the Michael Jackson Company and is the official Tour website), whereas MichaelJoeJackson.com does not, it redirects you to the domain sale page where the person selling has written:
"Appraised @ $30,000,000.00! MEMORABILIA CASH COW. Millions upon Millions to be made with this Doman Name. This is the real Deal! THIS IS HIS NAME AS STATED IN THE STATE of CA vs Michael Joe Jackson & IT'S ALSO ON HIS DRIVER LICENSE! Michael Joe Jackson. This is the best & only name you need to OWN! www.MichaelJoeJackson.com (http://www.MichaelJoeJackson.com). You can inform the world everything that is going on with The New Songs, The CD's, The DVD's, The Case. Everything! So much MONEY to MAKE! Michael Joe Jackson will be even more famous in Death than he was in life! This domain name is a FANTASTIC INVESTMENT! A ONCE IN A LIFE TIME OPPORTUNITY! Please only make a serious offer to buy www.MichaelJoeJackson.com (http://www.MichaelJoeJackson.com).
so, bit of both there :roll:
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Have you noticed?
This Is the form of identification " Michael JOE Jackson" !(Driver License)
But Death Certificate, and Autopsy Report is write Michael JOSEPH Jackson.
And the hair is "BROWN" ?????
Have a Look at this, its different, its all a Fake?!
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/7613/autopsy1.jpg (http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/7613/autopsy1.jpg)
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Ofcourse JOE is a clue. I mean, it's on his passports, on his Motown contract (why would daddy Joe give a false name?), he says it in court...
I saw the same video. Not that I ever questioned it because I didn't. I work with documents and it's a case of symantics. Meaning it is understood that Michael Joe
and Michael Joseph are the same person. His ss death record says Michael Joseph. Therefore his app said Joseph and for his app to say Joseph, his birth certificate did.
He signed one his child's birth certificate with his full name, not the abbreviated version of Joe or Jos. My entire name as it reads on my ss has 24 letters. I use either 9 or 13 letter of that when I'm doing anything and I mean anything. The whole name is just to dang long. It's not a clue and would never old up in a court of law.
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ok i live in the united states, specifically in california. 3 things.
1. as far as i know, any dealings with the court system you have to use your full and legal name- no abbreviations are allowed.
2. you need a birth certificate and have to fill out government forms to obtain a passport. therefore, what is printed on your birth certificate is printed on your passport. it is a form of identification that requires the full legal name.
3. can we please remember that LATOYA signed the death certificate? this in itself is ridiculous. an example- my mother did not sign ANYWHERE on my grandma's death certificate. it's signed by the doctor and coroner. [my grandma died in california so i know the rules when it comes to this] the death certificate is NOT VALID.
The way they do passports now is probably a little different nowadays then it used to be. When I got my first passport and I'm a little older than Michael, I DIDN'T produce a birth certificate. So I'm showing my age and you are showing yours. You just lack knowledge on certain aspect of things so you draw the wrong conclusions. LaToya DID NOT sign the death certificate as to the cause of death. The coroners office handled that. Latoya signed the certificate as the INFORMANT. All death certifcates have an informant. It's usually a family member. Any family member, but it can be ANYONE.
When a member of your own family passes away you might be the INFORMANT that fills out the paperwork and you will sign the death certificate in that capacity. That also is not a clue here. It was perfectly normal for her to sign as the informant. Your grammy's doctor signed the death certifcate as both the INFORMANT and to the cause of death? That happens too. I'd post some of mine but all you have to do is look at recent online death certificateS for the famous and you will see the" informant "section. There's a name there and that person signed a piece of paper. If I recall Patrick Swayze's wife was his informant. She signed the record. The doctor probably signed off on the cause of death.
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Here, the AEG's contract. 2x Michael Jackson, and 2 different signatures.
http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/6888 ... agjpg1.jpg (http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/6888/aegvertragjpg1.jpg)
... and what does it mean?
http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/9347/michaeljoe.jpg (http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/9347/michaeljoe.jpg)
It means they made a mistake with the birth year. Mistakes happen. I looked at my sister's facebook page last night and noticed she doesn't spell her middle name correctly. It's a mistake. She never gets mine right either. My own mother and my other sister have always put my birth year down wrong - legal documents and all. No kidding ! lol I never have a problem though.
As for the signature...I completely scrawled mine this morning on a receipt. I was in a hurry. Sometimes signatures are a little different.
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Here, the AEG's contract. 2x Michael Jackson, and 2 different signatures.
http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/6888 ... agjpg1.jpg (http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/6888/aegvertragjpg1.jpg)
... and what does it mean?
http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/9347/michaeljoe.jpg (http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/9347/michaeljoe.jpg)
It means they made a mistake with the birth year. Mistakes happen. I looked at my sister's facebook page last night and noticed she doesn't spell her middle name correctly. It's a mistake. She never gets mine right either. My own mother and my other sister have always put my birth year down wrong - legal documents and all. No kidding ! lol I never have a problem though.
As for the signature...I completely scrawled mine this morning on a receipt. I was in a hurry. Sometimes signatures are a little different.
They made a mistake with the birth year? What are you talking about? I'm lost.
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Here, the AEG's contract. 2x Michael Jackson, and 2 different signatures.
http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/6888 ... agjpg1.jpg (http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/6888/aegvertragjpg1.jpg)
... and what does it mean?
http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/9347/michaeljoe.jpg (http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/9347/michaeljoe.jpg)
It means they made a mistake with the birth year. Mistakes happen. I looked at my sister's facebook page last night and noticed she doesn't spell her middle name correctly. It's a mistake. She never gets mine right either. My own mother and my other sister have always put my birth year down wrong - legal documents and all. No kidding ! lol I never have a problem though.
As for the signature...I completely scrawled mine this morning on a receipt. I was in a hurry. Sometimes signatures are a little different.
You sound exactly like Jewell, hmmm.
You don't get a mistake in the name in such an important trial, it could have caused a mistrial. Do you really think Sneddon would take that risk after 10 years of vendetta? I don't think so. Whatever his name was before, when that trial began his name was Michael Joe Jackson.
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You sound exactly like Jewell, hmmm.
You don't get a mistake in the name in such an important trial, it could have caused a mistrial. Do you really think Sneddon would take that risk after 10 years of vendetta? I don't think so. Whatever his name was before, when that trial began his name was Michael Joe Jackson.
Exactly. And I still believe that he was born as Joe.
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I've posted this before, the whole Joe/Joseph issue is irrelevant.
Even when the only true name is the name that is written on a birth certificate, official documents often contain misspellings in the name, even death certificates. Death certificates often contain the name the person was known for or how they used to call themselves. I've seen hundreds of death certificates, and an alternate name or name spelling does NOT make the death certificate document less valid.
Whether his name was Joe or Joseph therefore is TOTALLY IRRELEVANT. If the name on his birthcertificate spells "Michael Joseph Jackson", than that is his legal name. However he may have abbreviated it later in life as "Joe" and used it on legal documents. For the same reason, his name may have appeared on the death certificate as "Michael Joe Jackson".
You simply CAN'T conclude that because the name on the death certificate is "Michael Joe Jackson" that it does not concern Michael!
Another thing to one of the posters above about the legality of hoaxing a death: when someone is under OFFICIAL protection they can LEGALLY obtain a new identity.[/u][/color]
Thank you for sharing! I think it expalins everything!
EXACTLY...This is what i thought all along
Seems another forum is disecting this as well...
http://mjkit.forumotion.net/michael-joe ... t922-0.htm (http://mjkit.forumotion.net/michael-joe-jackson-michael-joseph-jackson-f54/michael-joe-jackson-is-not-michael-joseph-jackson-at-alloo-t922-0.htm)
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Your true full name, as shown on your legal presence document and/or your name change document, will appear on your DL/ID card.
The name on his ID/DL/in court is Joe, so you can conclude that the name on his birth certificate is Joe.
Even Katherine said it, and I can't imagine that she would say his name is Michael Joe Jackson, and in the meanwhile his birth certificate says Michael Joseph Jackson.
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Your true full name, as shown on your legal presence document and/or your name change document, will appear on your DL/ID card.
The name on his ID/DL/in court is Joe, so you can conclude that the name on his birth certificate is Joe.
Even Katherine said it, and I can't imagine that she would say his name is Michael Joe Jackson, and in the meanwhile his birth certificate says Michael Joseph Jackson.
Totally agree with you!
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We all found in the web passports named on Michael Joe Jackson, but in 2006, Michael visits a friend in germany and he call the police to help, because too much fans came in the street. The police wanted to se Michaels passport and they say it was Michael Joseph Jackson , born in Gary Indiana.
I am sure there are two, Michael Joe and Michael Joseph.
Here is the article....sorry in german....but it was in Hamburg :
http://www.abendblatt.de/vermischtes/ar ... ndorf.html (http://www.abendblatt.de/vermischtes/article378009/Der-King-of-Pop-auf-der-Couch-in-Niendorf.html)
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I believe that he hated his father, and that is why he always says Joe...
it is a possibility, in his early years.
But maybe he wanted to create confusion over his real name?
I don't understand, I read all this thread and I still don't know which one is his real name :?:
Maybe he has a secret twin brother :idea:
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We all found in the web passports named on Michael Joe Jackson, but in 2006, Michael visits a friend in germany and he call the police to help, because too much fans came in the street. The police wanted to se Michaels passport and they say it was Michael Joseph Jackson , born in Gary Indiana.
I am sure there are two, Michael Joe and Michael Joseph.
Here is the article....sorry in german....but it was in Hamburg :
http://www.abendblatt.de/vermischtes/ar ... ndorf.html (http://www.abendblatt.de/vermischtes/article378009/Der-King-of-Pop-auf-der-Couch-in-Niendorf.html)
The article only says that the police asked for the passport of Michael Joseph Jackson, born in Gary, Indiana.
So who says that the name on his passport was Joseph?
I haven't seen any official document from him with Joseph on it.
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it is a possibility, in his early years.
But maybe he wanted to create confusion over his real name?
I don't understand, I read all this thread and I still don't know which one is his real name :?:
Maybe he has a secret twin brother :idea:
I really believe that he was born as Joe, but changed his 'artistname' into Joseph. Just to keep his artist life and private life apart.
I don't believe he had a twinbrother, because there's no reason for Katherine and Joe to hide one of their kids.
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I was watching ET and other entertainment shows tonight and they showed a copy of Sandra Bullock's divorce papers....well she used her initials BACKWARDS "B.A.S" in her divorce filing....can this be legit and legal still?
All so fishy....
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I can't believe the american system is so careless about a person's name on an official id document like a driving licence or a passport.
I the whole Europe there's this rule - your full name from the birth certificate must be on all official papers, id's, contracts etc.
I simply don't understand how Michael is Joe on passport and driving licence and Joseph on his kids' BC and his marriage certificate with Lisa.
But I must admitt Joe seems to an abreviation of Joseph.
I am not sure of anything :?
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Oh, do you remember when TMZ told us they are aware that his name is Michael Joe Jackson?
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Kuki from Netherlands and MJJ1982, you kill me with those signature pictures :D :D :D :oops: :oops:
Instead of reading the posts I stare at them ahhhhhhh
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Kuki from Netherlands and MJJ1982, you kill me with those signature pictures :D :D :D :oops: :oops:
Instead of reading the posts I stare at them ahhhhhhh
Me too hahahahaha :lol:
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Kuki from Netherlands and MJJ1982, you kill me with those signature pictures :D :D :D :oops: :oops:
Instead of reading the posts I stare at them ahhhhhhh
Me too hahahahaha :lol:
I think this makes us perverts who don't care about his message ?!?!? :?:
But what's he doing to that microphone is shameless :oops: but I like it so bad :lol:
Joe or Joseph, he's the best ever :mrgreen:
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Kuki from Netherlands and MJJ1982, you kill me with those signature pictures :D :D :D :oops: :oops:
Instead of reading the posts I stare at them ahhhhhhh
Me too hahahahaha :lol:
I think this makes us perverts who don't care about his message ?!?!? :?:
But what's he doing to that microphone is shameless :oops: but I like it :lol:
I do care a lot about his message!
But it still doesnt change the fact to me that he is gorgous! ;) ;) ;)
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Kuki from Netherlands and MJJ1982, you kill me with those signature pictures :D :D :D :oops: :oops:
Instead of reading the posts I stare at them ahhhhhhh
Me too hahahahaha :lol:
I think this makes us perverts who don't care about his message ?!?!? :?:
But what's he doing to that microphone is shameless :oops: but I like it :lol:
I do care a lot about his message!
But it still doesnt change the fact to me that he is gorgous! ;) ;) ;)
I totally agree with you !
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His Father's name is Joseph.
Ebony Jet Article August 1979:
Michael Joseph (Smiley) Jackson, the angelic-voiced lead singer of the world famous vocal quintet of Jackson brothers, is a handsome young man whose onstage magnetism and magic are exceeded only by his offstage majesty and meek heartedness.
Born the fifth of six talented sons of Joseph and Katherine Jackson in Gary, Ind., nearly 21 years ago (Aug. 29, 195 , he is a Virgo, whose trait is unselfishness, and is moved by magnetic forces which draw so many admirers into his life that love is his for the taking. And his love-struck fans often do strange things to show their affection for him.
When one beautiful Black teenager recently boarded a packed plane and spotted him seated with his brothers, she stared in disbelief, began breathing heavily and became so excited that she started wetting in her panties and froze in her tracks as urine trickled down her legs.
At the arrival gate where girls had gathered to meet the Jacksons, a blonde teenager squeezed through the crushing crowd, slipped past security guards, pulled Michael toward her and tried to make him kiss her.
Returning recently from a world tour celebrating their 10th anniversary in show business, Michael, the only Jackson son who has reached the age of consent and is still unmarried, waded through a room full of mail, sorting out those proposing marriage. Bashful Michael answered them the same: “Thank you for the beautiful letter. It’s very nice. And we will always love you. Love, Michael Jackson and the Jacksons.”
Mild-mannered Micahel makes it clear that he gets no satisfaction writing the same letter to all of those female fans who want him for a husband. But he responds in brief dignity because he actually fears love-sick fans.
Sitting in the living room of his family’s home located on a parcel of land in Encino, Calif., purchased form the sprawling estate of the late lady-killer actor Clark Gable of Gone With The Wind fame, the young and eligible bachelor talked about marriage, dating and a wide range of topics which deeply concern him.
“I don’t like to break hearts,” he said solemnly and shyly, shifting his 5-foot, 9 ½ -inch body in a sofa chair. “I don’t really know these people and, gosh, it’s a weird thing.” He continued:
“That, I think, is the weird part about show business. You portray an image. And those people are into you so long, buying your records. You’re all over their walls. They wake up seeing you. They wake up thinking about you. You’re totally on their mind. And when they meet you in person, they feel they have been knowing you for a long time. But I don’t know them. You see, that’s the painful part of show business—the breaking of the hearts. Do you know what that does to them? God, some of them go to the point of committing suicide because they get real serious. That’s what I don’t know how to handle.”
For the young female bubblegum crowd whose voices are now turning from no to yes, he is especially fearful. About them he says, “You have to be careful because sometimes love can reverse on you. They feel they can’t get you and they’ll go to the point of plotting and planning terrible things on you or do terrible things to hurt you. That’s why it’s important to be nice, but sincerely nice.”
He recalled the nasty rumor that surfaced last year, falsely claiming that he had undergone a sex change. The rumor is not dead yet and he said his encounter with a love-crazed blonde at the aforementioned airport helps to revive it. “This beautiful girl with blonde hair was trying her hardest to pull me into her to kiss her,” Michael remembers. “She said, ‘You’re so sexy, kiss me.’ When I showed no kind of interest in her, she said, ‘What’s wrong, you fag?’ and walked off.”
He laments that he still has to tell people: “There’s a reason why I was created male. I’m not a girl. And what kills me the most and makes me want to break down in tears is when little kids, seven and eight, come to me asking me that. I say, no, and please tell all your other little friends it’s not true.”
What disturbs Michael more than the rumor is the kind of mail he receives from some of the bubble gum set. “You wouldn’t believe the mail I get. I mean some of it gets real vulgar,” he revealed. To him, such mail is as shocking as seeing a priest at a movie house watching The Devil And Mrs. Jones or Deep Throat. “Some of the mail gets real funky, not polite at all,” he says. “They tell you the stuff they want to do to you and everything, and how they’re going to do it. I just read and go, ‘Oh my God, these girls.’ There’s not much charm in girls anymore, like the guy used to always pick up the phone and call the girl. She would never call the guy. She would sit there all day until the phone would ring for her. But now the girls bother you to death….You see girls today 11 years old with bags and lipstick and eyeliner and lashes as well. They feel they’re women and they’re not.”
Don’t get the impression that the soft-spoken singer is a saint or square. Looking like the cliché description—tall, dark, and handsome—Michael is very much aware that he can now do at age 20 what he used to sing about when he was 10. One well-known witness is Oscar-winning actress Tatum O’Neal, teenaged daughter of actor Ryan O’Neal.
A reporter for Modern People two years ago quoted Miss O’Neal as once saying she couldn’t wait to have her first affair. If she followed up the widely publicized comment with action involving manly Michael, he is not the kind to kiss and tell. He declined to discuss intimate details of dating Tatum, but was anxious to set the record straight about their romance. First, he readily admits the parallels in their lives: Both have protective parents. Tatum is a daddy’s girl and Michael is a mama’s boy. Both are attractive and wealthy. She rides in a chauffeur-driven Rolls-Royce and millionaire Michael drives his own Rolls. Both are very shy. Michael is one of the brightest stars of the future and Tatum is, too.
“I want all those people who read JET to just know that we’re mainly good friends,” Michael assured. Admitting that there have been criticisms about their relations, Michael mused: “People take it to crazy means and crazy extents and I just tell them we’re really, really, really good friends. That’s all I say. They say, ‘Well how good friends are you? Is there any romance going on?’ I say, yes sometimes but not all the time.”
Although dating is part of his lifestyle, he is more interested in developing a new lifestyle around his family’s home which is now undergoing extensive renovations. Emphasizing that he is not ready to move out on his own like his four married brothers (Jackie, Jermaine, Tito and Marlon), Michael explains:
“I’ve always wanted to do this for my mother. She loves homes and everything and I do things by feeling and force. I don’t feel that it’s time for me to move away yet. There are so many things I want to do just staying here.
“If I move out now, I would die of loneliness. Most people who move out go to discos every night. They party every night. They invite friends over and I don’t do any of those things. I would really die of loneliness.”
Michael’s renovation plans will include the addiction of a tennis court, a remodeled swimming pool, a gym room, a movie room, a rehearsal studio and a library.
Living at home with his mother, Katherine, father Joseph, brother Randy, and sisters, Janet and LaToya, the young entertainer explores his many talents and grapples with social and religious concerns.
Uppermost among his concerns are religion and racism. A devout Jehovah’s Witness, like his mother, he says: “I believe in the Bible and I try to follow the Bible. I know that I’m not an angel and I’m not a devil either. I try to be as best as I can and I try to do what I think is right. It’s that simple….I don’t just pray at night. I pray at different times during the day. Whenever I see something beautiful, I say, ‘Oh, God, that’s beautiful.’ I say little prayers like that all through the day.”
To cope with the stresses of show business, Michael says he turns to his deity, not drugs. “As corny as it sounds, natural highs are the greatest highs in the world,” he attests. “The stars, the mountains, children, babies smiling are just magic,” he happily beamed.
The one thing that dims this glow is the pervasive racism that’s rampant in the world today, especially in America, the world traveler observes. Recalling how badly the singing Jacksons have been treated in southern cities, he said that it was difficult to believe.
“The people told us just deal with it (racism) because that’s how the South is,” he said and added: “That’s ignorance and it’s taught because it’s not genetic at all.
“I’m really not a prejudiced person at all. I believe that people should think about God more and creation because if you look at the many wonders inside the human bodies—the different colors of organs…and all these colors do different things in the human body—why can’t we do it as people?
“That (racism) is the only thing I hate. I really do. And that’s why I try to write, put it in songs, put it in dance, put it in my art—to teach the world. If politicians can’t do it, poets should put it in poetry and writers should put it in novels. That’s what we have to do and I think it’s so important to save the world.”
As widely read as he is traveled, Michael, a private high school graduate who once quit public school because girls were always screaming and pulling on him, said: “I love to read. I wish I could advise more people to read. There’s a whole new world in books. If you can’t afford to travel, you travel mentally through reading. You can see anything and go anyplace you want to in reading.”
Traveling and reading have greatly influenced his religious and racial views. About his travels, Michael explains: “Wherever you go, man-made things are man-made, but you’ve got to get out and see God’s beauty of the world.”
Reflecting upon America’s racial problems, he said: “I wish I could borrow from other countries, say, like Venezuela or Trinidad, the real love and color-blind people and bring it to America. When you travel, you realize how different America is. God, I hate to say this but our people are brainwashed.”
Of all his travels, he says his most emotional and moving experiences came in travels in Dakar, Senegal. “I’m going to raise my hand (to God) on this one,” he lit up like a light. “I always thought that Blacks, as far as artistry, were the most talented race on earth. But when I went to Africa, I was even more convinced. They do incredible things over there….They got the beats and the rhythm. I really see where drums come from. It makes you think that all Blacks have rhythm….I don’t want the Blacks to ever forget that this is where we come from and where our music comes from. And if we forget, it (Black history) would really get lost. I want us to remember.”
http://floacist.wordpress.com/2007/10/2 ... t-16-1979/ (http://floacist.wordpress.com/2007/10/20/jet-interview-august-16-1979/)
Does anyone know how to move this article to another thread? I know it"s old but it is great that at this point and time the writer did more to give him the floor and let him fully express himself.
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Interesting article... still does not clear the mistery of his real name for me. Only legal papers can do it.
But it was hard to read that part about the women fans ... I imagine it's kind of difficult for him to handle so much "love" or better say "obsessive love", but really who can blame those women :? ?
As about moving it, I don't know, why don't you copy-paste it?
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Interesting article... still does not clear the mistery of his real name for me. Only legal papers can do it.
But it was hard to read that part about the women fans ... I imagine it's kind of difficult for him to handle so much "love" or better say "obsessive love", but really who can blame those women :? ?
As about moving it, I don't know, why don't you copy-paste it?
call it what it is Lust!!!!!!
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You want to call it lust? That's fine with me.
But before you judge it take a real good look at Mr.Jackson.
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You want to call it lust? That's fine with me.
But before you judge it take a real good look at Mr.Jackson.
not meant to judge only to be accurate.
and i have looked and definately don't see anything freakesh or ugly about this man.
but i think that since i didn't start out as a fan i was able to look at the inside first before looking at the outside
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You want to call it lust? That's fine with me.
But before you judge it take a real good look at Mr.Jackson.
not meant to judge only to be accurate.
and i have looked and definately don't see anything freakesh or ugly about this man.
but i think that since i didn't start out as a fan i was able to look at the inside first before looking at the outside
Of course you can't see anything ugly :D This is my point exactly. He is too attractive, sexualy speaking. That's why I said I can't blame those women... I would probably faint if I would meet him...
As about the inside, we don't really know him, do we? But his deeds speak for him, so as far as I know he is a great humanitarian, so he has to be a beautiful, generous, compasionate soul.
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You want to call it lust? That's fine with me.
But before you judge it take a real good look at Mr.Jackson.
not meant to judge only to be accurate.
and i have looked and definately don't see anything freakesh or ugly about this man.
but i think that since i didn't start out as a fan i was able to look at the inside first before looking at the outside
Of course you can't see anything ugly :D This is my point exactly. He is too attractive, sexualy speaking. That's why I said I can't blame those women... I would probably faint if I would meet him...
As about the inside, we don't really know him, do we? But his deeds speak for him, so as far as I know he is a great humanitarian, so he has to be a beautiful, generous, compasionate soul.
I think he is very much the same person on the inside we have all fallen in love with. It's definately not a front. Michael is not putting anyone on. He is just himself. He is as good on the inside as he is on the outside, for us folks, and there are many of us ladies who adore his exterior. He cannot be compared to anyone else because there is nobody like him. Iam drawn to both his beauty inside and out. Of course we all see with our eyes first but the real truth is what is on the inside. Michael has been blessed to have it ALL going on for him
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for those who think his legal name is Joe,what about the marriage certificate with LMP,where it is written Joseph?
I am just afraid Joe /Joseph thing has not a lot to do with the hoax..
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for those who think his legal name is Joe,what about the marriage certificate with LMP,where it is written Joseph?
I am just afraid Joe /Joseph thing has not a lot to do with the hoax..
Just like the children bc's ;)
All I can say is: who says they are real?
It's not common to use a different name then on your id.
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Kuki from Netherlands and MJJ1982, you kill me with those signature pictures :D :D :D :oops: :oops:
Instead of reading the posts I stare at them ahhhhhhh
Me too hahahahaha :lol:
I think this makes us perverts who don't care about his message ?!?!? :?:
But what's he doing to that microphone is shameless :oops: but I like it so bad :lol:
Joe or Joseph, he's the best ever :mrgreen:
I was watching the Come Together video the other night (for the 1000 time) and I couldn't help but wonder if Michael picked up some of his sexy moves by watching those female dancers when he was a young boy. He was a student of his craft from a young age and he perfected it so well!
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that thought has occured to me before .
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I don't know. but maybe....
But I believe him when he says "music compeles me to do it...when you hear a string, you become a string...."
He's just born to dance and sing. Rememeber the final of Moonwalker, The Moon Is Dancing ?
He is the Moon and he is the miracle :dreamimg with eyes open:
Oh, forgive me, this is so out of topic.
Let's get back to his real middle name :D which I think it's significant.
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You want to call it lust? That's fine with me.
But before you judge it take a real good look at Mr.Jackson.
not meant to judge only to be accurate.
and i have looked and definately don't see anything freakesh or ugly about this man.
but i think that since i didn't start out as a fan i was able to look at the inside first before looking at the outside
Of course you can't see anything ugly :D This is my point exactly. He is too attractive, sexualy speaking. That's why I said I can't blame those women... I would probably faint if I would meet him...
As about the inside, we don't really know him, do we? But his deeds speak for him, so as far as I know he is a great humanitarian, so he has to be a beautiful, generous, compasionate soul.
I think he is very much the same person on the inside we have all fallen in love with. It's definately not a front. Michael is not putting anyone on. He is just himself. He is as good on the inside as he is on the outside, for us folks, and there are many of us ladies who adore his exterior. He cannot be compared to anyone else because there is nobody like him. Iam drawn to both his beauty inside and out. Of course we all see with our eyes first but the real truth is what is on the inside. Michael has been blessed to have it ALL going on for him
i do think that some of it is the real micheal and the stage micheal as far as some of the sexual behavior. let's face it , they are all selling sex. i mean have you ever seen a movie with Jesus as a dorky little jewish guy?!
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I can see only one movie with Jesus: Jesus of Nazareth by Franco Zefirelli. It is a wonderful movie, I can see it again and again every year on Easter time......Robert Powell is just wonderful, God bless him....when I think of Jesus I see him looking like Robert Powell.
And at some points in the movie I suppose someone can think he is sexy....but I don;t know if this is the right word...he is in fact so calm and strong and powerfull and wise - and we like this in a man
Michael is different, he is sweet like a child, beautiful like an angel and a sexybeast on stage :D :D :D Anyway, I still don't know what his real middle name is :D
I suppose he will clear this for us when he comes back :D :D :D
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I can see only one movie with Jesus: Jesus of Nazareth by Franco Zefirelli. It is a wonderful movie, I can see it again and again every year on Easter time......Robert Powell is just wonderful, God bless him....when I think of Jesus I see him looking like Robert Powell.
And at some points in the movie I suppose someone can think he is sexy....but I don;t know if this is the right word...he is in fact so calm and strong and powerfull and wise - and we like this in a man
Michael is different, he is sweet like a child, beautiful like an angel and a sexybeast on stage :D :D :D Anyway, I still don't know what his real middle name is :D
I suppose he will clear this for us when he comes back :D :D :D
yeah we do seem to get off topic around here
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Don't be sorry. :roll:
Why that face? If you don't like what we say/discuss, then just don't read it.
This was a nice place, but recently people are not reacting very nice to each other...
i have the same feeling about people freakin' out at each other. seems like the impatience is taking its toll...everybody is so edgy...
:mrgreen:
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I can see only one movie with Jesus: Jesus of Nazareth by Franco Zefirelli. It is a wonderful movie, I can see it again and again every year on Easter time......Robert Powell is just wonderful, God bless him....when I think of Jesus I see him looking like Robert Powell.
And at some points in the movie I suppose someone can think he is sexy....but I don;t know if this is the right word...he is in fact so calm and strong and powerfull and wise - and we like this in a man
Michael is different, he is sweet like a child, beautiful like an angel and a sexybeast on stage :D :D :D Anyway, I still don't know what his real middle name is :D
I suppose he will clear this for us when he comes back :D :D :D
yeah we do seem to get off topic around here
sorry :D
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Move on people, live your own lives. Michael passed or he is not coming back and wants to be left ALONE.
this is sad but just let this go. he passed. it's not a hoax it's just details that are messed up. if you look on youtube, you'll see a lot of videos of mike really messed up, looks drugged, etc...it was a problem for him. it took him.
I don't want to offend you, but if you're convinced about what you said above, then what are you doing on an hoax investigation forum?
Hi. I understand ur struggle. One part of me has a wishful thinking that he's in hiding and tht he will be back while the other part of me also think media is a very remarkable channel as they can distort the truth. Say recently MJ's sister, Rebbie's interivew, u went to the MJ is alive theories, u got to see what she said sounded like he faked his death. Then, I went to view the whole interview, it came out another answer. So we have to be careful esp abt finding truth; IMO, we have to view the whole process like the interviews; not just one part tht the media is very capable twisting & turning. The media is really very very remarkable when come to twisting. So in the end is we have to see the whole picture to know what Rebbie was talking abt. She said 'interesting for everyone' , yes this part ; when u hear she says, u can tell she's being careful due to her religious (thou shall not lie) yet she had to not to reveal too much because of investigations as she claimed or other reason. She also can say she believes there's more to it, not just Dr murrey, I believe her of what she said there is more to it, not nessary MJ faked his death. Maybe she knows & the family knows tht MJ had addiction & they had tried intervenion but unsuccessful so MJ death was not a surprise to them in the way, More to disappointment and as they are in showbiz, they see it all and they believe there are more pple involved as showbiz is a very complicated environment. So in the end, maybe it is all due to media. This is my opinion but media/parrazzi are really remarkable w/o any conscious. Thanks!
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i used to think that he is Joe until recently when i finished reading "Moonwak", he himself said that he is Michael Joseph Jackson, that's it.
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i used to think that he is Joe until recently when i finished reading "Moonwak", he himself said that he is Michael Joseph Jackson, that's it.
Yes, but then he was already planning this back then, so who says he didn't put that in on purpose? The indictment says Joe, his passports say Joe. Those are legal papers so that must be his real name.
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MashMike wrote:i used to think that he is Joe until recently when i finished reading "Moonwak", he himself said that he is Michael Joseph Jackson, that's it.
Yes, but then he was already planning this back then, so who says he didn't put that in on purpose? The indictment says Joe, his passports say Joe. Those are legal papers so that must be his real name.
BUT DU U THINK HE HAD BEEN PLANNING FAKING HIS DEATH SINCE 1995?
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MashMike wrote:i used to think that he is Joe until recently when i finished reading "Moonwak", he himself said that he is Michael Joseph Jackson, that's it.
Yes, but then he was already planning this back then, so who says he didn't put that in on purpose? The indictment says Joe, his passports say Joe. Those are legal papers so that must be his real name.
BUT DU U THINK HE HAD BEEN PLANNING FAKING HIS DEATH SINCE 1995?
No, since the 80's ... Moonwalk is from '87 if I'm not mistaken.
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yep, it was originally in 1988 but was edited in 1995
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The Julien's Auction that is taking place on June 25th has a Jackson's contract that is signed by Joe Jackson on behalf on the brothers, and he has signed all of their names with a middle initial, HOWEVER he has signed Michael's middle name
Steven R Jackson
Sigmund E Jackson
Toriano A Jackson
Marlon D Jackson
Michael JOE Jackson
This contract is from 1976
(It is on page 202 of the Julien's Catalogue http://www.juliensauctions.com/auctions ... talog.html (http://www.juliensauctions.com/auctions/2010/music-icons/icatalog.html))
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The Julien's Auction that is taking place on June 25th has a Jackson's contract that is signed by Joe Jackson on behalf on the brothers, and he has signed all of their names with a middle initial, HOWEVER he has signed Michael's middle name
Steven R Jackson
Sigmund E Jackson
Toriano A Jackson
Marlon D Jackson
Michael JOE Jackson
This contract is from 1976
(It is on page 202 of the Julien's Catalogue http://www.juliensauctions.com/auctions ... talog.html (http://www.juliensauctions.com/auctions/2010/music-icons/icatalog.html))
Yup:
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/contractjoe.jpg)
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So, let me ask. With all this argument about this subject. What do you think about the fact that MJ's dad is named Joseph and he never uses it? He always uses just Joe. Joe is short for Joseph.
If you hold to the theory that Michael could not sign his name Joe if his name was Joseph, what do you say to the fact that a lot people sign with just an initial? Does that make a document invalid?
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So, let me ask. With all this argument about this subject. What do you think about the fact that MJ's dad is named Joseph and he never uses it? He always uses just Joe. Joe is short for Joseph.
If you hold to the theory that Michael could not sign his name Joe if his name was Joseph, what do you say to the fact that a lot people sign with just an initial? Does that make a document invalid?
I am talking legal papers here. On legal papers Joe is mentioned as Joseph, Mike as Michael Joe.
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That is what I am trying to discuss here. If you believe Joe is invalid as a short form of Joseph, would you believe that using an initial (much like the document you posted, you see names with just initials as middles names) makes them illegal documents and/or signatures?
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I work for an administration and I deal with birth and death certificates all the time. It's italian or french documents but everywhere is the same thing. The first and the last names are relevant to be a valid document, the middle name being a nick name. I've seen death documents with all sorts of mistakes, I've even seen FIRST names being changed on death certificates....it doesn't mean the guy didn't die. You should stop thinking , "according to the law a document is valid only if..." yes yes, rules are very good but in the reality, things are very different and lot of this kind of mistakes are done every day, everywhere. I think this is really not a big deal. But other facts are.
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Just thinking about what that fan said she saw as she was driving to FL, a billboard saying "It's Joe not Joseph". Don't know where that's posted.
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I work for an administration and I deal with birth and death certificates all the time. It's italian or french documents but everywhere is the same thing. The first and the last names are relevant to be a valid document, the middle name being a nick name. I've seen death documents with all sorts of mistakes, I've even seen FIRST names being changed on death certificates....it doesn't mean the guy didn't die. You should stop thinking , "according to the law a document is valid only if..." yes yes, rules are very good but in the reality, things are very different and lot of this kind of mistakes are done every day, everywhere. I think this is really not a big deal. But other facts are.
I have to disagree: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/DEATH1 ... al-acc.pdf (http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/DEATH11-03final-acc.pdf)
It states at #1: "DECEDENT’S LEGAL NAME (Include AKA’s if any) (First, Middle, Last)"
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in "Moonwalk" the book.. .Michael said that his name is Michael Joseph Jackson :(
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in "Moonwalk" the book.. .Michael said that his name is Michael Joseph Jackson :(
I call that "Planning the Hoax". People had to get used to the name Joseph, and if Mike himself says it's Joseph, everyone will believe that without questioning. Katherine said in her book she named him Michael Joe, and that is also what we see in "The Jacksons - An American Dream".
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http://www.worthpoint.com/worth-points/jackson-presley-marriage-certificate-to-be-auctione
(http://scoop.diamondgalleries.com/public/news_images/4/88902_235970_1.jpg)
NUMBER OF PASSPORT AND THIS PAPER DON´T MATCH
THIS NUMBER OF PASSPORT SAY MICHAEL JOE JACKSON
SO... :roll:
IT´S JOE, HE CHANGE HIS NAME TO JOE
TMZ CONFIRMED THAT HIS LEGAL NAME IS JOE
JOE ALL THE WAY.... :mrgreen:
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http://www.worthpoint.com/worth-points/jackson-presley-marriage-certificate-to-be-auctione
(http://scoop.diamondgalleries.com/public/news_images/4/88902_235970_1.jpg)
NUMBER OF PASSPORT AND THIS PAPER DON´T MATCH
THIS NUMBER OF PASSPORT SAY MICHAEL JOE JACKSON
SO... :roll:
IT´S JOE, HE CHANGE HIS NAME TO JOE
TMZ CONFIRMED THAT HIS LEGAL NAME IS JOE
JOE ALL THE WAY.... :mrgreen:
Besides that, this whole marriage certificate is bogus. Who is Kathreine Jackson? And Why is Joe just Joseph instead of Joseph Walter? Prinila Presley? Just to name a few 'mistakes' in the document.
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If that's What I presented as marriage certificate, it is not, the document says "affidavit."
Says I want to marry Both And That marriage "CAN NOT be Held Until They Meet the Requirements of law."
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If that's What I presented as marriage certificate, it is not, the document says "affidavit."
Says I want to marry Both And That marriage "CAN NOT be Held Until They Meet the Requirements of law."
They were never married, just my 2 cents...
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(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/4308/sfdas.png) (http://img42.imageshack.us/i/sfdas.png/)
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I don't have access to the report now, but I'll try to recall what I know and check later on but I think this is pretty much what the report said:
Intelius shows us:
Michael J. Jackson - California - Katherine and some others from the family as relatives
Mike J. Jackson - California - Katherine and some others from the family as relatives
There is more than one DOB listed, because there are more people with those names. There is only one DOB they both have in common: January 28, 1960. Now let's list some things:
In 1969 when Mike was supposed to be 11, he had to tell people he was 9, for PR reasons (I guess you are way cuter at 9, because you are darn old at 11.. :S )... Look at the video below, it's from 1968. Is he 10 or 8 there? IMO maybe 10, more likely 8, going on 9.
[youtube:2geoi1m2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ux3joe0GdTA[/youtube:2geoi1m2]
When you pay close attention while watching The Jacksons - An American Dream (produced by Jermaine!!) you will notice that Katherine gets pregnant with Mike in 1959. Well you can try but it's impossible in that case to give birth in 1958. (btw: at birth she names him Michael Joe, not Joseph).
Then we had this:
01/28/2010 at 08:30 am in department 5
at 111 North Hill Street, Los Angeles, CA 90012
Revocation of Will
Hmmmm, turning 50 would be a good time to have your will revoked, don't you think?
It's not like there is a sibling 'in the way'. Marlon David Jackson (born March 12, 1957), Steven Randall "Randy" Jackson (born October 29, 1961). So both dates are possible, there is quite a gap between Marlon and Randy, considering the fact that the older siblings had way less time in between.
The indictment of 2003. Although the whole world knows his DOB, it's blocked out:
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/images/24_indictment.jpg)
Make up your own mind about it, but my bet is that the moment the world learned his name was Michael Joseph Jackson, born August 29, 1958, a hoax was already in the planning.
[/color]
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Yes, I think so
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thanks Souza, I´m convinced he is Joe and about the dates maybe you are right... he have to say he have 11 at that time and then all goes and goes... maybe he never thought he will be the greatest entertainer of the world, maybe he never thought all this... :? maybe his father told him to fake his age for the contract and all that but at that time all was so easy to pretend... now is different :roll:
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03:15
[youtube:1bi1tkhu]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f519eWWmroQ&feature=youtu.be&a[/youtube:1bi1tkhu]
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(http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/4303/sdasdl.png) (http://img51.imageshack.us/i/sdasdl.png/)
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In 1969 when Mike was supposed to be 11, he had to tell people he was 9, for PR reasons
So, according to this theory, when was MJ born? 1960-1?
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In 1969 when Mike was supposed to be 11, he had to tell people he was 9, for PR reasons
So, according to this theory, when was MJ born? 1960-1?
January 28, 1960:
Ok, I'm gonna throw this out again:
I don't have access to the report now, but I'll try to recall what I know and check later on but I think this is pretty much what the report said:
Intelius shows us:
Michael J. Jackson - California - Katherine and some others from the family as relatives
Mike J. Jackson - California - Katherine and some others from the family as relatives
There is more than one DOB listed, because there are more people with those names. There is only one DOB they both have in common: January 28, 1960. Now let's list some things:
In 1969 when Mike was supposed to be 11, he had to tell people he was 9, for PR reasons (I guess you are way cuter at 9, because you are darn old at 11.. :S )... Look at the video below, it's from 1968. Is he 10 or 8 there? IMO maybe 10, more likely 8, going on 9.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ux3joe0GdTA
When you pay close attention while watching The Jacksons - An American Dream (produced by Jermaine!!) you will notice that Katherine gets pregnant with Mike in 1959. Well you can try but it's impossible in that case to give birth in 1958. (btw: at birth she names him Michael Joe, not Joseph).
Then we had this:
01/28/2010 at 08:30 am in department 5
at 111 North Hill Street, Los Angeles, CA 90012
Revocation of Will
Hmmmm, turning 50 would be a good time to have your will revoked, don't you think?
It's not like there is a sibling 'in the way'. Marlon David Jackson (born March 12, 1957), Steven Randall "Randy" Jackson (born October 29, 1961). So both dates are possible, there is quite a gap between Marlon and Randy, considering the fact that the older siblings had way less time in between.
The indictment of 2003. Although the whole world knows his DOB, it's blocked out:
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/images/24_indictment.jpg)
Make up your own mind about it, but my bet is that the moment the world learned his name was Michael Joseph Jackson, born August 29, 1958, a hoax was already in the planning.
[/color]
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01/28/2010 at 08:30 am in department 5
at 111 North Hill Street, Los Angeles, CA 90012
Revocation of Will
:? :shock: :?
Wh00t? MJ=50 y.o in 2010?
He is not Virgo, He is Aquarious like meeeeeeeeeeee!
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01/28/2010 at 08:30 am in department 5
at 111 North Hill Street, Los Angeles, CA 90012
Revocation of Will
:? :shock: :?
Wh00t? MJ=50 y.o in 2010?
He is not Virgo, He is Aquarious like meeeeeeeeeeee!
Would be funny, dying at 50 and returning over a year later still being 50 :lol:
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Very intrigued about this theory. I'm curious about what your thoughts are....were there 2 children between Marlon and Randy...one born on August 29th 1958 and one on Jan 28 1960? or was Michael Joe born to Katherine and Joe in 1960 and the Michael Joseph born in 1958 a relative or friend, or is there another theory. Was little Michael, Michael Joe and what happened to him....is he still alive and well or did he die and Michael Joseph become his replacement? And when did Michael Joseph take over....was it at the time of Liberian Girl hence the pictures at the funeral. I asked my kids who are 11 and 13 to watch the video of little Michael and they said no way is he 11. They said 9 for sure for what it's worth. Please anyone fill me in on what your thoughts are on this/ If we can solve this I believe alot of other things will fall into place.
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i think we have to believe Michael...his name is MICHAEL JOSEPH JACKSON...take a look..this tribute video... in the beginning...written in the notebook by MJ. And...to be sure about this legal name issue..why don't you ask someone from US to ask a lawyer or something? to see if the name matters so much, because i saw many mistakes like this at other celebrities...and it doesn't seem to be a problem.. :?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAw0qZHCq6U (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAw0qZHCq6U)
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Very intrigued about this theory. I'm curious about what your thoughts are....were there 2 children between Marlon and Randy...one born on August 29th 1958 and one on Jan 28 1960? or was Michael Joe born to Katherine and Joe in 1960 and the Michael Joseph born in 1958 a relative or friend, or is there another theory. Was little Michael, Michael Joe and what happened to him....is he still alive and well or did he die and Michael Joseph become his replacement? And when did Michael Joseph take over....was it at the time of Liberian Girl hence the pictures at the funeral. I asked my kids who are 11 and 13 to watch the video of little Michael and they said no way is he 11. They said 9 for sure for what it's worth. Please anyone fill me in on what your thoughts are on this/ If we can solve this I believe alot of other things will fall into place.
My head just exploded :lol:
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01/28/2010 at 08:30 am in department 5
at 111 North Hill Street, Los Angeles, CA 90012
Revocation of Will
:? :shock: :?
Wh00t? MJ=50 y.o in 2010?
He is not Virgo, He is Aquarious like meeeeeeeeeeee!
Would be funny, dying at 50 and returning over a year later still being 50 :lol:
Feels like the GROUNDHOG DAY movie :lol:
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souza would you mind commenting on what you are leaning towards with all that earlier research you posted please....
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souza would you mind commenting on what you are leaning towards with all that earlier research you posted please....
What exactly do you mean?
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well you posted research about the common birthdate of the two mj's - january 28th 1960 and that Jermaine produced a show that stated that Katherine was pregnant in 1959 and named that baby Michael Joe. You also commented that there was quite a gap between Marlon and Randy. So I was wondering what you thought....were there 2 babies born - one in 1958 and one in 1960. If so, for the purposes of this thread and just to go all out there for a sec....which one is the king of pop or did they share that duty? Did they split it in 2 one pre pepsi burn and one post pepsi burn? I know you have spent a lot of time thinking things through and I am still struggling so I would really like to hear what you have to say about these points....thanks :)
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well you posted research about the common birthdate of the two mj's - january 28th 1960 and that Jermaine produced a show that stated that Katherine was pregnant in 1959 and named that baby Michael Joe. You also commented that there was quite a gap between Marlon and Randy. So I was wondering what you thought....were there 2 babies born - one in 1958 and one in 1960. If so, for the purposes of this thread and just to go all out there for a sec....which one is the king of pop or did they share that duty? Did they split it in 2 one pre pepsi burn and one post pepsi burn? I know you have spent a lot of time thinking things through and I am still struggling so I would really like to hear what you have to say about these points....thanks :)
My main thought is that Mike created Michael JOSEPH Jackson, born 8/29/1958 back in the 80's when he started to plan all this. I wonder if we ever heard the 1958 and Joseph before that, I don't think so. As far as I'm concerned he was 9 years old in 1969 and I asked my mother if she knew what his middle name was, and she instantly said Joe, that is how she remembered it from the J5 era.
I have no idea if he just made it up or that there might have been a stillborn in 1958. I can only speculate about it and I really haven't got a clue.
The right side of my brain considers the possibility of a brother that died after birth, because of Elvis' story about giving his brother a sort of a life by living on under his name, the left side of my brain says he chose that date because of the actor in Gilda and the year because in that case he would be 50 on June 25, 2009, and the Joseph for the obvious reason because everyone would think that Joe, as they heard it before, was just short for Joseph.
I really don't know, maybe we will know one day.
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thank you souza....as i said earlier my 11 and 13 year olds said no way is mj more than 9 in the video of him performing posted here. kids have a good eye for who is the same age as they are and they both immediately said 9 tops.
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Hi Souza,
I'm trying to catch up on this thread. Very interesting. I am American and there is no way you can put false information on your documents. What makes it more suspicious is that such a famous person would fluctuate between two names. It's just not something that can be overlooked. When I go to the US next month, I am going to research this (although I am not from California). I have some lawyers in the family.
There must have been some reason why he was planning this since Moonwalker.
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uhm , on the mariage liscense , why when they first mention LMP does it say Lsa Marie Presley Keough? I know her first husbands last name was Keough but why would she still be using that name? Obviously if planning on tying the knot with MJ she must have been divorced from (Danny?) Keough so why the hell would she still be using his name at that time? I'm getting a weird feeling about all this...I don't believe they were legally married i just wonder why they faked it...
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Good points! There are all sorts of mistakes on that document. So they were not married. My head's spinning.
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:shock: nothing seems to add up ....but we will work it out together on this hoaxforum ( not me because i am not so clever as some of you are ) :lol: :lol: :oops: :oops: but i will try once i get out of my straight jacket that is :shock:
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WAIT WHAT?!?!?!??!
Michael's birthday is actually January 28, 1960? :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
I'm halfway convinced, but why would they say he was born August 29, 1958 then?
Well, my birthdays January 25th, so that's pretty cool :D
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i think we have to believe Michael...his name is MICHAEL JOSEPH JACKSON...take a look..this tribute video... in the beginning...written in the notebook by MJ. And...to be sure about this legal name issue..why don't you ask someone from US to ask a lawyer or something? to see if the name matters so much, because i saw many mistakes like this at other celebrities...and it doesn't seem to be a problem.. :?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAw0qZHCq6U (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAw0qZHCq6U)
Makes perfect sense. Does anyone know if Pearl Jr concluded about it in the book, or remained the question? :roll:
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I do not post that often here,but I have found his age very interesting.I was reading Moonwalk again in great detail this time and noticed something about his age that perhaps you could all help me with.On page 80 there is a picture of Michael on the cover of the Rolling Stone.It says"Why does this eleven year old stay up past his bedtime?"Now I noticed the issue date is 29th April 1971 No 81.Now wouldn't that make his birth-date 1960?I am not able to scan the page in question,as I am not very computer savvy.What do you all think.Am I seeing this wrong.Cheers xxxxoooo
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I do not post that often here,but I have found his age very interesting.I was reading Moonwalk again in great detail this time and noticed something about his age that perhaps you could all help me with.On page 80 there is a picture of Michael on the cover of the Rolling Stone.It says"Why does this eleven year old stay up past his bedtime?"Now I noticed the issue date is 29th April 1971 No 81.Now wouldn't that make his birth-date 1960?I am not able to scan the page in question,as I am not very computer savvy.What do you all think.Am I seeing this wrong.Cheers xxxxoooo
Is it this one?
(http://bestofmichaeljackson.jclondon.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/michael_jackson-on-the-magazine-cover-of_rollingstone_1971.jpg)
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11? should be 12 to 13 according to the magazine date.
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Another exploded brain here! This is incredible stuff! I feel like I haven't even scratched the surface of 'the truth' yet about this fascinating man!
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01/28/2010 at 08:30 am in department 5
at 111 North Hill Street, Los Angeles, CA 90012
Revocation of Will
Decision:
01/28/2010 at 08:30 am in Department 5, Mitchell L. Beckloff, Presiding
REVOCATION OF WILL
Denied without prejudice
The term Denied Without Prejudice is used to denote that the Motion can be brought again, that the Court has not precluded the Motion from being raised again in the future. In simple words: denying the motion, with "without prejudice" means the same motion can be made again.
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I think what we have is a lie about Brandon for whatever reason. Michael Joe and Michael Joseph are twins, one has passed away and I think we see them standing side by side in this photo of them and Janet and Latoya that was being passed around our website not long ago, this mysterious photo where everyone was going...."Who is this guy???" about. I think we see both of them in this very photo because no body can identify that guy and he looks like another Michael.
(http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h144/napolde1/michaelandmichaelrare1.jpg)
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I think what we have is a lie about Brandon for whatever reason. Michael Joe and Michael Joseph are twins, one has passed away and I think we see them standing side by side in that photo of them and Janet and Latoya that was being passed around our website not long ago, the mysterious photo that everyone was going...."Who is this guy???" about. I think we see both of them in that very photo because no body can identify that guy and he looks like another Michael.
Which photo are you refering to?
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Just posted it above
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Thanks!
Could it be Wylie Draper?
(http://panachereport.com/channels/old_school_update/images/7118768_115021911395.jpg)
He was starring as MJ in The American Dream
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No NOT Wylie. Wylie was 10 years younger than Michael and the time frame would all be off according to when Wylie was born. Those guys in this photo look like twins, 2 Michaels to be exact and it is NOT one of the other Brothers either. Put an afro on the guy in the boots here and you have MJ from the J5 show days/poster boy image days.
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I think what we have is a lie about Brandon for whatever reason. Michael Joe and Michael Joseph are twins, one has passed away and I think we see them standing side by side in this photo of them and Janet and Latoya that was being passed around our website not long ago, this mysterious photo where everyone was going...."Who is this guy???" about. I think we see both of them in this very photo because no body can identify that guy and he looks like another Michael.
(http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h144/napolde1/michaelandmichaelrare1.jpg)
OMG, there's two of 'em! Any idea what year this photo was taken?
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May be was a cousin, a friend....the twin theory is just too complicated.
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I have no idea when it was taken. It's so funny I visit Wylie's crypt all the time. I feel his presence when I visit him, the love the sweet young man.....BUT I swear if you put Wylie's photo next to boot boys photo they sure do look close!!!!! :shock:
But the time frame would all be off as far as age goes UNLESS we have been lied to all this time!!!!
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Mo... yes that's the page.Am I thinking right about the age?What is your thoughts on this?Cheers xxxooo
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I think what we have is a lie about Brandon for whatever reason. Michael Joe and Michael Joseph are twins, one has passed away and I think we see them standing side by side in this photo of them and Janet and Latoya that was being passed around our website not long ago, this mysterious photo where everyone was going...."Who is this guy???" about. I think we see both of them in this very photo because no body can identify that guy and he looks like another Michael.
(http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h144/napolde1/michaelandmichaelrare1.jpg)
OMG, there's two of 'em! Any idea what year this photo was taken?
I still think that could be Randy.
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Certainly no disrespect meant to you Souza but if Randy was ever that HOT good Lord HAVE MERCY!!!! Looks too close to MJ IMO. Not to mention Randy was usually pudgy even on the old Jacksons tv show.
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Certainly no disrespect meant to you Souza but if Randy was ever that HOT good Lord HAVE MERCY!!!! Looks too close to MJ IMO. Not to mention Randy was usually pudgy even on the old Jacksons tv show.
Sorry, but Randy really looked a lot like Mike.
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r219/talkinghands/Steven%20Randall%20Randy%20Jackson/RandyJacksonVFR.jpg)
(http://bestofmichaeljackson.jclondon.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/The-Jacksons-with-Randy-Jackson.jpg)
(http://bestofmichaeljackson.jclondon.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Michael-jackson-and-randy-Jackson1.jpg)
(http://lyndersaydigital.com/bd/archive/words_files/jacksons-0026-penny_01.jpg)
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Not to me he never did.
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Not to me he never did.
He looks like the guy in the pic. Height and bodyshape match pretty well also. And the guy in the picture doesn't look exactly like Mike either.
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I'll just agree to disagree Souza. We're just different on this. I don't see anyone but Michael in boot boy but I know that's Michael or at least one of them....standing next to him in the cap lol. But who knows, the guy may not be a Michael or Randy.
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To me Randy always looked most like MJ, especially early 80s.
Randy's in the blue..
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But Randy is always shorter than Michael and I still do not see that they look much alike. Michael and the boot wearing guy in question are pretty much the same height and you can look at their waist lines/belts etc....and they are level with each other.
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Well I'm not saying they're exact twins. Just saying they look similar ;)
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But Randy is always shorter than Michael and I still do not see that they look much alike. Michael and the boot wearing guy in question are pretty much the same height and you can look at their waist lines/belts etc....and they are level with each other.
Mike (with cap) is clearly taller and has longer legs than boot guy. I think the height difference is pretty much the same as the difference between Randy and Mike in the other picture.
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This is just the way I see Randy. I look at him and I see Theo Huxtable from the Cosby show, not Michael. This boot guy has Michael's smile but I do see how Michael is slumping a bit here so yeah when he stands up straight he would be taller than the boot guy. But if that is Randy then that is the hottest photo of Randy ever.
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imho...boot guy isn't Mike's twin...they don't look THAT much alike to me, but def related...gotta say I agree w/ Souza here...looks like Randy to me...plus Mike's legs are bent and he's leaning to one side...that would make him look shorter...and boot guy is a little pudgy lookin' at least for a Jackson :lol:
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http://www.worthpoint.com/worth-points/jackson-presley-marriage-certificate-to-be-auctione
(http://scoop.diamondgalleries.com/public/news_images/4/88902_235970_1.jpg)
NUMBER OF PASSPORT AND THIS PAPER DON´T MATCH
THIS NUMBER OF PASSPORT SAY MICHAEL JOE JACKSON
SO... :roll:
IT´S JOE, HE CHANGE HIS NAME TO JOE
TMZ CONFIRMED THAT HIS LEGAL NAME IS JOE
JOE ALL THE WAY.... :mrgreen:
im sorry but i think this is not the real marriage certificate
few months ago i met a MJ impersonator from Indonesia
he say he talk to Michael via simulchat at 1995 i think *or what year i forgot*
he told me that at the end of the session of the chat , he can ask for any things that he want from Michael as a gift .. he ask for the copy of MJ's marriage certificate . and in few days he got it via email ...
this is the pic of the marriage certificate
(http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/6115/10718123371853241515127.jpg)
sorry i can't post any clearer pict
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And that of course the marriage certificate is real?, Can not see anything, if it is real why not present it in a clearer way? :geek:
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May be was a cousin, a friend....the twin theory is just too complicated.
Not too complicated - it's impossible!
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Woah :shock: !
I am honestly shocked at all this! It's blowing my mind LOL :shock: !
Well 4 my little 2 cents the boot guy looks similar 2 Mike I can tell by the smile lols :P
But I dontt hink its his twin well at least I don't think :?
He also does look like Randy to me so idk :?
Now back 2 Mike. The bday thing is waayy interesting :D
I can look at Mike and see that he looks 9 istead of 11 and that's my young insticts also. He does not look 2 yrs yunger than me at all in that vid but that's just my thoughts :D
So now to Joe v Joseph. I think his middle name is Joe bcuz if Joe is on legal documents its his name. I don't believe you can put a fake name on legal documents :D
I asked my mom and she said that if u put a fake name on legal documents u get sent 2 jail so yea I believe its Joe :D
Thnx 4 listening guys :)
All of ur comments have really made me look more into this ;)
We will all find out 1 day hopefully lols :D
Peace&L.O.V.E
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Aquarius - I wondered why then, now I wonder even more. Mr Mysterious is an understatement... :roll:
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Okay, I doubt the twin theory. Why would someone name their twin boys the SAME first name, that's just retarted, sorry. But IF you are going to go with the twin theory & say that boot guy is MJ's twin, remember that MJ had a nose job already in that pic & that there is such a thing as FRATERNAL TWINS, meaning they aren't exactly the same, they don't look alike & can even be opposite sexes. I personally doubt the twin theory but the DOB is definitely 1960, but why lie? & the name IS Michael Joe Jackson. Odd. Hmm could the boot guy in question be Jermaine by any chance? Or maybe a relative or friend? Maybe we are reaching at this point. I'm definitely on the same page as everyone else with the DOB & Full Name thing though ;) :o
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I am open to every theory, but in that case I am pretty sure that there was one Michael. What would be the reason to hide his twin brother? And then Mike passed away and his twin replaced him? I don't think so...
The Joe-Joseph problem still exists though :? I don't know what to say :roll:
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I'd be more open to the boot guy being Randy but that is NOT Jermaine. Not not not Jermaine. Way too hot for Jermaine. But I'm more apt to think it's a family member not one of the Brothers at all. But to me he still looks more like Michael than any of the other Brothers....and I mean Michael from that time and even before. It's the smile. This guy is a hunk! Wish we knew who he was even if he's not in any way related to the hoax.
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I'd be more open to the boot guy being Randy but that is NOT Jermaine. Not not not Jermaine. Way too hot for Jermaine. But I'm more apt to think it's a family member not one of the Brothers at all. But to me he still looks more like Michael than any of the other Brothers....and I mean Michael from that time and even before. It's the smile. This guy is a hunk! Wish we knew who he was even if he's not in any way related to the hoax.
LOL I was just kidding about it being Jermaine, OBVIOUSLY there's no way! I don't think he's a brother & I don't think MJ has a twin & IF he did his twins name would NOT be Michael, what would be the point in that? :roll:
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Maybe there were two babies born, one in 1960 and one in 1958. We have the two year age difference.
There used to be labor laws concerning how many hours a child could work... remember the Olson twins... and I think they used twins on "little house on the prarie" not sure if I am remembering corectly.
Both babies would not have had to have been given the same name at birth. One could have changed the name latter. So then we would have one... Michael Joe and one Michael Joseph...
Looking over the credits for the "This is it" CD credit is given to both Michael joseph and Michael J Jackson... If we were talking about the same person would the producers of the CD want to keep the name consistant?
We have also seen Michael at different heights... If you do an internet search for Mike's height you get several different answers.
We all know Mike had some plastic surgery done... not big deal... but what if it was to keep the two looking alike?
Don't forget the will.... signed by Michael while we know he was in NY??? and its still be accepted as leagal, not even being reviewed????
The MB documentry... it looks like two different people.. The Mike in the burgandy shirt looks different than the one shown in the earlier footage....You can chalk that up to being taped over 8 months but the personalities are different as well... Burgandy shirt Mike is more stable, more self assured, than the Mike in the hotel room holding blanket... watching that piece almost made me think of my mother who is bi-polar and manic.....Compare Mike at the end of the show to the one wearing black and white holding blanket.... personalites are too different....The interview questions and answers almost seemed like they were taken from the Oprah interview years before... like someone had studdied that interview.
We have people swearing Mike was gay, yet we have women swearing that they were with him...and he was married to LMP. The courts have rejected requests for dna tests to prove paternity... yes I know there are a lot of quacks out there but what if just one of these so called "MJ love kids" really is his?
Why is everyone so reluctant to do dna?
Why didn't he use his own sperm to have children? I am sory I don't believe he did. and his reasons are his own... and yes he loved them and they are his children. but they are white... In my humble opinion, both of his kids would not look totally white if he had used his own sperm. I think blanket was adopted. Maybe he felt having his own biological children would make it too tempting for Debbie to keep them... I don't know.
I do believe that over the years we have seen more than one MJ. Just too many contrerdictions.
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The twin theory; why would the family hide a child?
One Michael replacing other for the shows?. Workers of the show would have known.
That kind of secret can´t be kept for too long. We are talking about a human being (2 of them). The double theory fits better in to the picture just for the morality involved.
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The twin theory; why would the family hide a child?
One Michael replacing other for the shows?. Workers of the show would have known.
That kind of secret can´t be kept for too long. We are talking about a human being (2 of them). The double theory fits better in to the picture just for the morality involved.
I have never understood nor will I ever understand the "why would the family hide a child" or "how could the family hide a child" comments. If there is a "missing Jackson" and he is Mike's double (we dropped the biological twin theory months ago already, but very few people seem to have picked up on that) then he has been in plain sight all the time. The only thing we don't know is his name.
Indeed, there used to be labor laws concerning how many hours a child could work. We know Mike had to lie about his age, that is a documented fact. We have Michael Joseph Jackson born on August 29, 1958 but we also have the Intelius file of Mike J. Jackson, born January 28, 1960.
Look at some of the old pictures from the Jacksons. They are time stamped, but when you look at the kids themselves I can't help but wonder if those kids aren't older than they are according to the time stamps.
Regarding keeping secrets: the best kept secrets are those involving a lot of money. Michael Jackson has been THE person to make money off for 4.5 decades. To reveal a secret like that would be to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.
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(we dropped the biological twin theory months ago already, but very few people seem to have picked up on that) then he has been in plain sight all the time. The only thing we don't know is his name.
In this context, twin implies biological to the average reader, including myself ;)
We have Michael Joseph Jackson born on August 29, 1958 but we also have the Intelius file of Mike J. Jackson, born January 28, 1960.
Does that intelius file explain if that Mike J. Jackson is connected 100% to the Jackson Family?
Regarding keeping secrets: the best kept secrets are those involving a lot of money. Michael Jackson has been THE person to make money off for 4.5 decades. To reveal a secret like that would be to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs
If one is dead and the other one is alive, why to show the world one is gone at all?
The easiest is to go on making people believe that he (only one) is still alive and have a private funeral for the deceased one.
I believe MJ had a double, but not in this context, basically because to me looks too elaborated and machiavelic :|
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We have Michael Joseph Jackson born on August 29, 1958 but we also have the Intelius file of Mike J. Jackson, born January 28, 1960.
Does that intelius file explain if that Mike J. Jackson is connected 100% to the Jackson Family?
Well, Michael Jackson's real estate is listed under Mike J. Jackson's name. How about that?
Regarding keeping secrets: the best kept secrets are those involving a lot of money. Michael Jackson has been THE person to make money off for 4.5 decades. To reveal a secret like that would be to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs
If one is dead and the other one is alive, why to show the world one is gone at all?
The easiest is to go on making people believe that he (only one) is still alive and have a private funeral for the deceased one.
I do believe that someone died on June 25 2009 and had a private burial. I remember seeing a video of the Jacksons having a "rehearsal" of the funeral on July 6, on a lawn. Why would they rehearse a funeral on a lawn when they planned a memorial the next day in Staples Center..?
It's clear that Mike has a huge purpose with hoaxing his death, and therefor he had to "die".
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Well, Michael Jackson's real estate is listed under Mike J. Jackson's name. How about that?
(excluding the "double" theory in this case)
Makes me think as well that MJ could have had 2 id´s? One listed with 1958 as a date of birth and the other with 1960? Possible reason; avoiding labour law punishments?
Is there any ID pusblished of this Mike J.Jackson where we can read his height or see a pic?
I am sure I have not been following the threads regarding this topic. I am full of questions.
Mike J and Michael J, double trouble :lol:
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latoyajackson http://twitter.com/latoyajackson (http://twitter.com/latoyajackson) That's the official LaToya Taj confirmed it.
@latoyajackson Dear Latoya, I was wondering about Michael's middle name. Is it Joe or Joseph? I would be grateful if you answer:) Hugs!
12:27 PM Sep 23rd via web
Retweeted by you and 24 others
@neverendinghop it's Joe!
1:11 PM Sep 23rd via Twitter for iPad in reply to neverendinghop
Retweeted by you and 60 others
Reply Retweeted (Undo)
neverendinghop
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Wasn't LaToya the one in charge of giving the information for the autopsy report and so the rest of documents why did she give the name "Joseph" and not "Joe" ? :s
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hmmmm......
then i got this:
latoyajackson @jenwren20 That mistake has alway been made because his middle name is after my father, Joseph, but my mother shorten it to Joe at his birth
10 minutes ago via Twitter for iPad in reply to jenwren20 :roll:
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hmmmm......
then i got this:
latoyajackson @jenwren20 That mistake has alway been made because his middle name is after my father, Joseph, but my mother shorten it to Joe at his birth
10 minutes ago via Twitter for iPad in reply to jenwren20 :roll:
Interesting,... then she needs to answer the questions about the legal documents :)
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Ok, I asked LaToya about the wrong names on the papers, let's see if she answers...
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Maybe there were two babies born, one in 1960 and one in 1958. We have the two year age difference.
There used to be labor laws concerning how many hours a child could work... remember the Olson twins... and I think they used twins on "little house on the prarie" not sure if I am remembering corectly.
Both babies would not have had to have been given the same name at birth. One could have changed the name latter. So then we would have one... Michael Joe and one Michael Joseph...
Looking over the credits for the "This is it" CD credit is given to both Michael joseph and Michael J Jackson... If we were talking about the same person would the producers of the CD want to keep the name consistant?
We have also seen Michael at different heights... If you do an internet search for Mike's height you get several different answers.
We all know Mike had some plastic surgery done... not big deal... but what if it was to keep the two looking alike?
Don't forget the will.... signed by Michael while we know he was in NY??? and its still be accepted as leagal, not even being reviewed????
The MB documentry... it looks like two different people.. The Mike in the burgandy shirt looks different than the one shown in the earlier footage....You can chalk that up to being taped over 8 months but the personalities are different as well... Burgandy shirt Mike is more stable, more self assured, than the Mike in the hotel room holding blanket... watching that piece almost made me think of my mother who is bi-polar and manic.....Compare Mike at the end of the show to the one wearing black and white holding blanket.... personalites are too different....The interview questions and answers almost seemed like they were taken from the Oprah interview years before... like someone had studdied that interview.
We have people swearing Mike was gay, yet we have women swearing that they were with him...and he was married to LMP. The courts have rejected requests for dna tests to prove paternity... yes I know there are a lot of quacks out there but what if just one of these so called "MJ love kids" really is his?
Why is everyone so reluctant to do dna?
Why didn't he use his own sperm to have children? I am sory I don't believe he did. and his reasons are his own... and yes he loved them and they are his children. but they are white... In my humble opinion, both of his kids would not look totally white if he had used his own sperm. I think blanket was adopted. Maybe he felt having his own biological children would make it too tempting for Debbie to keep them... I don't know.
I do believe that over the years we have seen more than one MJ. Just too many contrerdictions.
The thing that also stands out for me with the This Is It CD is the statement "Always great to sing with my brother"...has anyone ever explained who that came from? It makes no sense that it would be from MJ's brothers because then it would say "always great to sing with our brother". Maybe it was from only one of the brothers (Jermaine?)...but if so, then why isn't his name mentioned after the quote? IF the brother theory is right, though, (and 'brother' doesn't necessarily have to be a brother by blood)...then this statement on the back cover takes on a whole new meaning....yet also raises a ton more questions.
With L.O.V.E. always.
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The thing that also stands out for me with the This Is It CD is the statement "Always great to sing with my brother"...has anyone ever explained who that came from? It makes no sense that it would be from MJ's brothers because then it would say "always great to sing with our brother". Maybe it was from only one of the brothers (Jermaine?)...but if so, then why isn't his name mentioned after the quote? IF the brother theory is right, though, (and 'brother' doesn't necessarily have to be a brother by blood)...then this statement on the back cover takes on a whole new meaning....yet also raises a ton more questions.
With L.O.V.E. always.[/quote]
EXACTLY! This has always bugged me too!
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You can sign contracts with a nick name in the middle as long as the first and last name are the same as your given name.
IMO you can't use a nickname on official papers like a passport, drivers license or in court.
I know here in the UK that is the case, so i also went n checked online for the usa...below is Orgeons standards for using your full legal name for a driving licence
Proof of Your Full Legal Name
Your full legal name is your first name, middle name(s), and last or surname, without use of initials or nicknames.
You must provide additional documentation proving your current full legal name if it is different than the name shown on your proof of legal presence (see the Proof of Your Legal Presence, Identity and Date of Birth section below for more information).
and i know that applies to other states that i have read up on... so i would say it is state wide legality..and would apply to passports/marriage certs/insurance polices/court appearances - anything of a legal nature...and makes total sense as to why so many are questioning it...unless of course Michael changed his middle name...but that still makes no sense - because during the trial. records had his middle name as Joe... but on Prince´s birth cert it's Joseph....So he could not have changed his middle name to Joseph, than back to Joe,than to Joseph again..this does make one go around in circles lol
x
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Here is the video where Michael names himself Michael Joseph Jackson at the court in 1994.
Michael's father's full name is Joseph. Joe is a short version of that name.If in some Michael's documents whoever wrote middle name Joe, it is not wrong. It is common in the USA. It even can be written only letter J. and would not be wrong. What is important not to misspell first and last name.
[youtube:qfpr5l6w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnQh9cdebm0[/youtube:qfpr5l6w]