Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators
Hoax Investigation => Hoax Pictures => Topic started by: reading_on on December 22, 2009, 07:57:59 AM
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Hello Everyone,
This is my first post here and I may ruffle feathers both ways, but I can't help but share my information (not that it even proves one way or another, except that the statement that he had a vein popping is not right). Everyone here tries so hard to look for clues of Michael hoaxing his death and I am #1 not sure if this has been discussed before and #2 not really really looking for those things, but rather have a curious nature about myself and like to look at facts.
I work in web design and graphics, so the first thing I did when I saw the picture of him in the ambulance and read everyone's take is to capture it and clean it up.
Among all the oddities in the world, I think that I may look at the strangest one everyday when I look at this picture. I hate posting it here, I think that some of you are more daring with copyright infringement than I am, but I am not trying to make money so here goes: I don't think I have to tell you what is wrong with the picture
First photo with line of light removed
(http://www.spendingcents.com/dust_reduction.bmp)
Second Photo with line of light removed. enlarged and just MJ face
(http://www.spendingcents.com/dust_reduction2.bmp)
Third Photo with line of light removed, enlarged and night effect applied: as you can clearly see this is not a vein but a a splash of uneven light/skin tone to go along with that other oddity I am sure you see by now.
(http://www.spendingcents.com/night_effect_nose.jpg)
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Whoa where is his nose?? Are you saying these pics are real afterall??? Please i would like your expert opinion..
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Yes, please share with us their knowledge of the image
What do you think it is an image in Photoshop?
Could it be made and what abnormalities can be found, please explain
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Whoa where is his nose?? Are you saying these pics are real afterall??? Please i would like your expert opinion..
whaaa Leah- Kim , what do you mean where is his nose?? it's still there , right?????
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What are your thoughts of this picture then? Real, fake, photochopped?
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ok, this pic scares me........explain plz :geek:
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Whoa where is his nose?? Are you saying these pics are real afterall??? Please i would like your expert opinion..
whaaa Leah- Kim , what do you mean where is his nose?? it's still there , right?????
Well i am not sure about his nose thats why i asked for her Proffesional opinion.. But if you look at the pictures the Nose looks a different color like it was "Put" there.. And in the last pic she says about "Other odditys" that we would have noticed by now.. And that is what i noticed..
We need the OP to come back and explain!!!!!! PLEASE
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Whoa where is his nose?? Are you saying these pics are real afterall??? Please i would like your expert opinion..
whaaa Leah- Kim , what do you mean where is his nose?? it's still there , right?????
Well i am not sure about his nose thats why i asked for her Proffesional opinion.. But if you look at the pictures the Nose looks a different color like it was "Put" there.. And in the last pic she says about "Other odditys" that we would have noticed by now.. And that is what i noticed..
We need the OP to come back and explain!!!!!! PLEASE
Okay, this will be my final post today because I will be getting ready for the holidays today. I will be back in a day or two.
There are a few trains of thought.
1) It could be an optic illusion, but I find it hard to be since the whole face would be sort of haloed.
2) I am not saying it is for real shopped. No expert should tell you this about any picture. There are always many factors involved with pictures. The odd nose looks like a shadow of a nose above it. It absolutely looks like another nose just over to the side of the nose. What can make this happen? (A: blurred motion and we are pretty sure that the rest of him isn't moving because the whole picture is not haloed, over exposed film and there again the rest of the picture doesn't look that way)
You have to remember, no expert can tell you for sure if a photo was shopped this is opinion you will have to form on your on with all the facts that you have available.
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oh.. the one thing I can say. Whether or not MJ is laying there is not something I can answer, but the picture as a whole (aside from that nose) seems to be a whole picture not MJ placed in it.
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Whoa where is his nose?? Are you saying these pics are real afterall??? Please i would like your expert opinion..
whaaa Leah- Kim , what do you mean where is his nose?? it's still there , right?????
Well i am not sure about his nose thats why i asked for her Proffesional opinion.. But if you look at the pictures the Nose looks a different color like it was "Put" there.. And in the last pic she says about "Other odditys" that we would have noticed by now.. And that is what i noticed..
We need the OP to come back and explain!!!!!! PLEASE
Yeah I agree Leah-Kim, the colour around and below the nose is a completely different tone to the rest and looks photoshopped/edited in. If the picture was just being lightened to remove shading on the forehead the rest of face should remain even in skin tone. The pic doesn't look right. Can the person explain please?
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I DID NOT do anything to this picture but apply a sunset effect after removing that line of light. You can do it yourself, so please don't say I did anything else to it. I posted this for you guys to look at and talk about, not to be blamed for it not looking right. It is what it is. Of course it doesn't look right, that was my point. It isn't a vein but a problem with the pic
Edited to add: My Question is this, (lol.. I guess I lied about that being my last post). Why didn't the photographer clean this up before publishing?
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I Always wanted to know what the red lines are in the picture? where does it come from?
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I DID NOT do anything to this picture but apply a sunset effect after removing that line of light. You can do it yourself, so please don't say I did anything else to it. I posted this for you guys to look at and talk about, not to be blamed for it not looking right. It is what it is. Of course it doesn't look right, that was my point. It isn't a vein but a problem with the pic
Edited to add: My Question is this, (lol.. I guess I lied about that being my last post). Why didn't the photographer clean this up before publishing?
I dont think the person was blaming you they maybe misread the original post...
Thanks for posting these pics its definitly interesting to see without that blurred line of light in the way...
I guess the only person who can answer about this picture is the one who took it and photoshopped it originally.. Ben Evasted MJs close friend for many years, The same guy that got the first picture of Murray after he came out of hiding for longer than 2 months..
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Sorry.. guess I am touchy about editing pics. Usually I do it for my own investigating.
I was thinking that possibly his friend knew how this looked and not knowing MJ was in such dire straits wanted to protect him from bad publicity.
Oh, and the red in the photo is just some remnants of the red car
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MAYBE IF YOU USE THIS PICTURE? :|
[attachment=0:3hdaqh8u]ambulance photo.jpg[/attachment:3hdaqh8u]
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I just hope we do not go back,WAY BACK.to when everyone was like he has no nose,thats silly,HA makes me laugh.Anyway this photo is originally photosopped,from another photo,there are 2 possible photos,i have to find them though.
..............EternalBliss
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EternalBliss, when using this pic, the light in the picture and perspective changes because of broader shot. So I had to apply the effect thing bring it up with just a color swatch
(http://www.spendingcents.com/ambulance2.bmp)
You can still see the nose illusion (or whatever that is) but you have to darken then lighten around it.
I am not real sure what you think is photoshopped though. The picture as a whole is definitely a whole picture, no one was placed in it (no cut out pixels, no light and dark variations except for the one you see on the sunset effect), unless they flattened several times I suppose, but the question would be why would anyone have to do that? There were plenty of impersonators and wax dolls etc to use in place of a real person, but maybe I am missing the point of why you think it is shopped.
I don't know about this nose. It was definitely a different color a lot of the time in his life. Kinda of weird to think of someone not having a nose end and someone with that much money, surely if that WAS a problem it could be fixed right up no need for a prosthetic. I would have never thought that rumor was real, maybe people just assumed because of the color. You know how outrageous some of the carp was.
Since I am no plastic surgeon I have no idea if the stuff they use sometimes does not match or something.
Gee Whiz.. I gotta go already. Happy Holidays
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EternalBliss, when using this pic, the light in the picture and perspective changes because of broader shot. So I had to apply the effect thing bring it up with just a color swatch
(http://www.spendingcents.com/ambulance2.bmp)
You can still see the nose illusion (or whatever that is) but you have to darken then lighten around it.
I am not real sure what you think is photoshopped though. The picture as a whole is definitely a whole picture, no one was placed in it (no cut out pixels, no light and dark variations except for the one you see on the sunset effect), unless they flattened several times I suppose, but the question would be why would anyone have to do that? There were plenty of impersonators and wax dolls etc to use in place of a real person, but maybe I am missing the point of why you think it is shopped.
I don't know about this nose. It was definitely a different color a lot of the time in his life. Kinda of weird to think of someone not having a nose end and someone with that much money, surely if that WAS a problem it could be fixed right up no need for a prosthetic. I would have never thought that rumor was real, maybe people just assumed because of the color. You know how outrageous some of the carp was.
Since I am no plastic surgeon I have no idea if the stuff they use sometimes does not match or something.
Gee Whiz.. I gotta go already. Happy Holidays
Maybe its exactly because he had so much money that he (possibley) ended up with no nose.. too many enablers and no-one telling MJ it might not be a good idea to keep having surgery on his nose.
You can have all the money in the World but once the blood vessels and cartilage have been cut too many times and the blood flow stops to the nose then its not going to be saved. I think its plausable MJ may have had problems with his nose and may have to wear a prosthetic tip.
Dont attack me for that opinion.. im just saying its possible as so many people exploited MJ and i can imagine that many plastic surgeons took advantage of MJs low self-esteem concerning his looks and took the money, did the surgery and didnt care about the damage.
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Miss.Peppers,I agree with you
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Thanks for posting your finds, reading_on...it's nice to have some things cleared up.
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ILuvUMoreMJ you are very welcome. I have been reading the forum for awhile and I didn't know if I should post it or not.
When I first cleaned it up and looked at it, I expected to see something else. But really, in the back of my mind I wondered...Why did they leave that junk in the picture? Could it be hiding something? (not about a hoax death mind you).
But when I removed it, I was sad a little because if it is him laying there and there is something wrong with his nose and not a problem with the pic I just thought "Oh, Michael, I'm sorry". No human being should suffer this much. I know that he may have brought things on himself to some extent, but he was hurting so badly and needed to heal. I would have never, ever in my life released this photo on a public forum except in this case where the world presumes him gone (he didn't deserve folks tearing him down at every turn ). I wish him not gone, but I can't just say for sure he isn't, so I thought this photo would be okay to post for you folks to see.
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I believe the reflection of the red car was staged to make the photo look real.
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Thanks-its nice to have people who get down to the nitty gritty on things.
To those who may get upset-keep in mind we still have other foggy issues that point to him being alive.
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I believe the reflection of the red car was staged to make the photo look real.
Good point and I also think it was staged !!I don't know if I understood this thread :lol: but don't they say, Michael's nose was broke when they tried to revive him?
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Hey everyone! I tried to post in here the other day and then all of sudden I lost what I wrote and I couldn't get back to the forum...I wanted to say that I posed this same question to a cousin of mine who works in the Coroner's office assisting in autopsy's, before this she worked in assisting in surgeries. I asked her that if this was a vein then his heart was beating and that would make chest compressions not needed and thus making the pic a fake... this is what she had to say in response to my question... The last paragraph I won't include, she gives her take on what might have happend the day he died from a medical perspective. Since I and all of you think this may not be the case, I will leave it out unless you like what she says about the pic and then I can post it for you all if you would like. Here is what she said about the vein
Ok, so I looked at the pic for a while and did as much reading as I could find...but I didn't find anything about the doctor's story, other than that he was giving him 50 mg of propofol before bed. OK, so here goes...
1) Paramedics DO intubate and quite frequently. A face mask is never used in resuscitation as it is not a reliable method to get oxygen to the lungs. The throat may close or swell and the oxygen won't get to the lungs...an endotracheal tube goes all the way down to the bronchi and secures an airway that can't be obstructed.
2) In regards to the bulging vein...when i look carefully at the pic (which is a horrible image, very unclear) I see a clear plastic tube which is part of the nasal O2 cannula under his nose. The nasal cannula has the two nose prongs in his nostril which you can see, and the tube continues out from each side until it joins up and attaches to an O2 tank. You can clearly see the tube across his left cheek and I believe the tube that goes across the right runs up beside his right nostril and is lying across his forehead, something easily done when an urgent resuscitation is going on.
3) The hand on the chest is NOT involved in the performing of CPR, which doesn't mean they weren't performing CPR when he was removed from the house, but this particular photo does not show hands performing CPR. He may have been reaching for something, and the angle makes it look like his hands are on MJ's body, but they are in front of his throat and not anywhere near his chest.
So I'll tell you what I think happened, from experience and what little I know of the case...but I'll close to guarantee this is what went down...
So according to her, the vein looks like a plastic tubing from the o2 canula resting on his forehead. Not a vein...I must say, I took another look and could see it as well.
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I rotated these photographs. There is more wrong here than just his nose, The nose looks like a triangle has been placed there, it is squared at the bottom. This inserted triangle is also larger than the bridge area if you look between his eyes. No way Michael's nose ever looked like that.The nose is also way too wide from between the eyes to tip. Between the lip and nose looks like something has been inserted there too. The right eye looks fuzzy, the left completely clear. The left brow is way to long (bordering on a unibrow here?). Also, look at his ear it is like stretched way out sideways (like Yoda from Star Wars?), it almost appears smudged.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f264/IndigoDreams0007/dust_reduction22.jpg)
You can really see the nose triangle and above the lip insertions in this one.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f264/IndigoDreams0007/night_effect_nose2.jpg)
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I rotated these photographs. There is more wrong here than just his nose, The nose looks like a triangle has been placed there, it is squared at the bottom. This inserted triangle is also larger than the bridge area if you look between his eyes. No way Michael's nose ever looked like that.The nose is also way too wide from between the eyes to tip. Between the lip and nose looks like something has been inserted there too. The right eye looks fuzzy, the left completely clear. The left brow is way to long (bordering on a unibrow here?). Also, look at his ear it is like stretched way out sideways (like Yoda from Star Wars?), it almost appears smudged.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f264/IndigoDreams0007/dust_reduction22.jpg)
You can really see the nose triangle and above the lip insertions in this one.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f264/IndigoDreams0007/night_effect_nose2.jpg)
Your picture makes it unclear to see but that is tubing from the nose canula that is running beside his left ear with a white tube clip on it that is making his hear looked streched out.
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I rotated these photographs. There is more wrong here than just his nose, The nose looks like a triangle has been placed there, it is squared at the bottom. This inserted triangle is also larger than the bridge area if you look between his eyes. No way Michael's nose ever looked like that.The nose is also way too wide from between the eyes to tip. Between the lip and nose looks like something has been inserted there too. The right eye looks fuzzy, the left completely clear. The left brow is way to long (bordering on a unibrow here?). Also, look at his ear it is like stretched way out sideways (like Yoda from Star Wars?), it almost appears smudged.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f264/IndigoDreams0007/dust_reduction22.jpg)
You can really see the nose triangle and above the lip insertions in this one.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f264/IndigoDreams0007/night_effect_nose2.jpg)
Your picture makes it unclear to see but that is tubing from the nose canula that is running beside his left ear with a white tube clip on it that is making his hear looked streched out.
From the picture you left on the other thread mykidsmum I can see the tubing you are talking about. Never paid much attention to this picture before until you mentioned it. I've seen that tubing used a few times myself. Once on my dying daughter, another time on my husband when he suffered brain injury in an accident (for which he has now years later recovered) and twice on 2 of my kids who were born premature (one at 27 weeks and another at 32 weeks).
This does leave me with a question. What does your cousin make of this then? To her is this photo legit and does she believe this really is Michael in a dire situation?
I'll post this same response on your other thread as would appreciate a response if you feel comfortable enough to answer.
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I rotated these photographs. There is more wrong here than just his nose, The nose looks like a triangle has been placed there, it is squared at the bottom. This inserted triangle is also larger than the bridge area if you look between his eyes. No way Michael's nose ever looked like that.The nose is also way too wide from between the eyes to tip. Between the lip and nose looks like something has been inserted there too. The right eye looks fuzzy, the left completely clear. The left brow is way to long (bordering on a unibrow here?). Also, look at his ear it is like stretched way out sideways (like Yoda from Star Wars?), it almost appears smudged.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f264/IndigoDreams0007/dust_reduction22.jpg)
You can really see the nose triangle and above the lip insertions in this one.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f264/IndigoDreams0007/night_effect_nose2.jpg)
Your picture makes it unclear to see but that is tubing from the nose canula that is running beside his left ear with a white tube clip on it that is making his hear looked streched out.
From the picture you left on the other thread mykidsmum I can see the tubing you are talking about. Never paid much attention to this picture before until you mentioned it. I've seen that tubing used a few times myself. Once on my dying daughter, another time on my husband when he suffered brain injury in an accident (for which he has now years later recovered) and twice on 2 of my kids who were born premature (one at 27 weeks and another at 32 weeks).
This does leave me with a question. What does your cousin make of this then? To her is this photo legit and does she believe this really is Michael in a dire situation?
I'll post this same response on your other thread as would appreciate a response if you feel comfortable enough to answer.
wow! Thank you for sharing! Life is precious and you have been thru a lot, my prayers are with you and yours. I too know a nose canula as my oldest son was born at 31 weeks. (happy and healthy now thanks God) I will take a moment and ask my cousin those questions and I will post her answer either here or under Expert Oppinion of Ambulance Pic 2.
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Excellent post on the tubing, however I still believe the vein theory across the forehead is the illusion of the lighter tone. It is very clear that there is a lighter swatch across his nose and his forehead and I can't see any tubing across the forehead. The light definitely is an illusion there and you have to change the lighting to see it best.
I did see that tubing across the cheek before in the pic, not making much of it. (not realizing he is intubated??? I guess) I am a little confused though. After being intubated there would be no need for this tubing. The airway is being occupied by the intubation.
Around here the paramedics do not intubate, it is only done at the hospital.
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Excellent post on the tubing, however I still believe the vein theory across the forehead is the illusion of the lighter tone. It is very clear that there is a lighter swatch across his nose and his forehead and I can't see any tubing across the forehead. The light definitely is an illusion there and you have to change the lighting to see it best.
I did see that tubing across the cheek before in the pic, not making much of it. (not realizing he is intubated??? I guess) I am a little confused though. After being intubated there would be no need for this tubing. The airway is being occupied by the intubation.
Around here the paramedics do not intubate, it is only done at the hospital.
yep they use oxygen masks till they get to hospital!!
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Excellent post on the tubing, however I still believe the vein theory across the forehead is the illusion of the lighter tone. It is very clear that there is a lighter swatch across his nose and his forehead and I can't see any tubing across the forehead. The light definitely is an illusion there and you have to change the lighting to see it best.
I did see that tubing across the cheek before in the pic, not making much of it. (not realizing he is intubated??? I guess) I am a little confused though. After being intubated there would be no need for this tubing. The airway is being occupied by the intubation.
Around here the paramedics do not intubate, it is only done at the hospital.
from what I understand EMT's do not intibate but Paramedics are trained and can do it and do. I guess you would have to find the protocol for the area where MJ lived. He is intubated in the picture and the o2 cannula is probably still in place from the first step in the protocol. Maybe he was breathing slightly when they got to him but the o2 cannula didn't get his o2 levels up enough or he stopped breathing and had to be intubated...we will all find out one day when they take Dr. Murray to court, or we never may find out because it's a hoax...hmmm.
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This breaks my heart. I dont want to look at this photo anymore because if this is not a hoax, then we are looking at a photograph of MJ's dead body. :cry:
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This breaks my heart. I dont want to look at this photo anymore because if this is not a hoax, then we are looking at a photograph of MJ's dead body. :cry:
i've bin thinking this for ages.. but i feel compelled to look an analyse it.. but sad at the same time.. :( :cry:
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I'm sorry, but I don't see that canula. To me it's just the reflection from the car etc.
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This breaks my heart. I dont want to look at this photo anymore because if this is not a hoax, then we are looking at a photograph of MJ's dead body. :cry:
I'm with you.
When I look at it (especially the last dark one), I feel pain in my chest. I don't know why. I'm listening to MJtunes.com all the time, so now I was waitching it and I heard "Time waits for noone". I felt like I'm waitching dead body.
I pray God it's my imagination. But guys, take any picture of MJ even during court case - it won't give you this strange bad energy.
I hope that if it's real MJ was finally revived and well now.
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Hey everyone! I tried to post in here the other day and then all of sudden I lost what I wrote and I couldn't get back to the forum...I wanted to say that I posed this same question to a cousin of mine who works in the Coroner's office assisting in autopsy's, before this she worked in assisting in surgeries. I asked her that if this was a vein then his heart was beating and that would make chest compressions not needed and thus making the pic a fake... this is what she had to say in response to my question... The last paragraph I won't include, she gives her take on what might have happend the day he died from a medical perspective. Since I and all of you think this may not be the case, I will leave it out unless you like what she says about the pic and then I can post it for you all if you would like. Here is what she said about the vein
Ok, so I looked at the pic for a while and did as much reading as I could find...but I didn't find anything about the doctor's story, other than that he was giving him 50 mg of propofol before bed. OK, so here goes...
1) Paramedics DO intubate and quite frequently. A face mask is never used in resuscitation as it is not a reliable method to get oxygen to the lungs. The throat may close or swell and the oxygen won't get to the lungs...an endotracheal tube goes all the way down to the bronchi and secures an airway that can't be obstructed.
2) In regards to the bulging vein...when i look carefully at the pic (which is a horrible image, very unclear) I see a clear plastic tube which is part of the nasal O2 cannula under his nose. The nasal cannula has the two nose prongs in his nostril which you can see, and the tube continues out from each side until it joins up and attaches to an O2 tank. You can clearly see the tube across his left cheek and I believe the tube that goes across the right runs up beside his right nostril and is lying across his forehead, something easily done when an urgent resuscitation is going on.
3) The hand on the chest is NOT involved in the performing of CPR, which doesn't mean they weren't performing CPR when he was removed from the house, but this particular photo does not show hands performing CPR. He may have been reaching for something, and the angle makes it look like his hands are on MJ's body, but they are in front of his throat and not anywhere near his chest.
So I'll tell you what I think happened, from experience and what little I know of the case...but I'll close to guarantee this is what went down...
So according to her, the vein looks like a plastic tubing from the o2 canula resting on his forehead. Not a vein...I must say, I took another look and could see it as well.
i would like to know what she said about his death!!! maybe u cam pm me!!!
thanks!!!
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This is an old picture of MJ, or another person..
Not his dead body.. Im sure!
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Why would an even source of light cause those kinds of deformities to the face? That doesn't even look real to me
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Sorry but the photoshop on;y makes the picture blurry :roll:
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Why would an even source of light cause those kinds of deformities to the face? That doesn't even look real to me
I can't even figure out where a source of light would come from like that either. I have thought about light sources. It looks sort of...overexposed
To the other poster, not sure on that triangle being placed theory. yes, there looks to be a triangle, but there is no purpose for placing, so that doesn't make sense to me. If you said it looks like someone placed a whole nose to make the picture look real, that would make sense, but to place something in a photo and it look fake would be counter productive on the editor's part.
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this thread makes my head spin and tummy hurt....just thinking that its Michael is making me sick...No wonder if he really is gone they had the casket closed...but that would also remove peoples doubts but man...So your saying the pic is not shopped...but could be a dummy or him really in the ambulance right
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Everyone gonna die on day. Can't see why you're saying "No doubt they had the casket closed.."
-I think you whine to much my friend. You're not a believer, you just are here because you don't wanna "realize" that Michael might be dead.
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this thread makes my head spin and tummy hurt....just thinking that its Michael is making me sick...No wonder if he really is gone they had the casket closed...but that would also remove peoples doubts but man...So your saying the pic is not shopped...but could be a dummy or him really in the ambulance right
Well yes, it could be anything. If he wasn't in there he could just have a stand in or dummy or just lay there.
But then again, it is possible that he was sick too. Anything is possible, except I don't understand the photoshop idea, unless I miss the point. Because if the point is to fool somebody, you don't need an altered picture in his case.
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@reading_on
i agree.. don't get me wrong i have commented an compared photoshop pics but i honestly think it will never be figured out.. if its a fake picture taken from something else.. then i reckon its something from Mike's archives that no-one has seen before and now is destoyed!!
Or it is actually Mike sick or just posing for the camera for the whole HOAX thing.. don't forget the "THAT DAY AND THE OTHER DA!!!!!! ERM ERM ERM" from that ben guy.. so it could have been done at any point and not from a moving ambulance hence it being so clear!!!
phewwwww thats my rant.. :) :lol:
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I'm not an expert on any of this stuff. But in ALL angles, to me, it still looks like a vein.
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I'm not an expert on any of this stuff. But in ALL angles, to me, it still looks like a vein.
Well maybe you are seeing something I don't I am talking about the distinct line between the light and dark tones. Is there another line on the face I am missing?