Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators
Latest News => TMZ.com => Michael Jackson News => TMZ Articles => Topic started by: ~Souza~ on April 18, 2011, 02:59:16 PM
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D.A. -- Don't Sully Michael Jackson's Character (http://www.tmz.com/2011/04/18/michael-jackson-nation-of-islam-court-documents-prosecution-weirdo/)
8 minutes ago by TMZ Staff
The L.A. County District Attorney has filed a motion asking the judge in the Michael Jackson wrongful death case to stop Conrad Murray's defense team from using any evidence involving the Nation of Islam.
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/04/18/0418-conrad-michael-islam-ex-tmz.jpg)
According to documents obtained by TMZ, District Attorney Steve Cooley explains, "Evidence concerning the Nation of Islam ... is irrelevant to this case because it does not relate to the defendant's participation in Michael Jackson's death."
But there's a deeper storyline -- Cooley's move is a preemptive strike to keep the defense from trying to make Michael Jackson look like a weirdo ... and an unsympathetic character ... and connecting MJ to the N.O.I. would make him very unsympathetic with a jury.
And Cooley wants to prevent the defense attacking MJ's bodyguard Alberto Alvarez who claims he was ordered by Dr. Murray to hide evidence of Propofol in MJ's bedroom.
Alvarez had been convicted of a misdemeanor 11 years ago, which Cooley believes is irrelevant.
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Bet they bring it up during the trial at some point, IF there IS a trial..
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What does the Nation of Islam with all this and Alberto Alvarez? Do not understand this mess TMZ :?
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Not sure there's a jury in the world who would be likely to let off a killer just because the victim was a member of the Nation of Islam.
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Ok what next??? It seems every day something new comes out which has nothing to do with the case. What does the nation of Islam got to do with the case?
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i cant stand tmz anymore, everything they write about equals bs, and doesnt have anything to do with the trail :roll:
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My first reaction was: why should Michael give the jury the impression of a bad character in relation to Islam? Why did TMZ put this in the news? Are they referring to the tabloids and rumours about MJ secretly converted to Islam prior to his death? It strikes me again that jury issues are mostly about the media influence on the jury. The tabloids (including TMZ) are very eager to report this with the effect of increasing influence on the public AND the jury. What a media circus!
Funeral may show if Michael Jackson converted to IslamJun 29, 2009 09:42 EDT
One of the many rumours that swirled around Michael Jackson in the final years of his life was that he had secretly converted to Islam and taken the name Mikaeel. The “King of Pop” does not seem to have spoken about this publicly himself, and that scene in Bahrain when he went shopping badly disguised in an Arab woman’s abaya could be put down to his well-known penchant for dressing up. So unless there is some statement in his will or documentary evidence in his estate, his funeral expected this week may be the last time to test whether this rumour has any basis in fact.
(Photo: Veiled Jackson greets security guard as he enters shopping mall in Manama, Bahrain with veiled child, 25 Jan 2006/Hamad Mohammed)
The Jacksons are Jehovah’s Witnesses and could be expected to bury Michael in the tradition of that faith. When he announced the death, his brother Jermaine — a Muslim — ended with the words: “May Allah be with you, Michael, always.” Jermaine said in 2007 he was trying to convince Michael to convert.
The post-mortem period hasn’t looked very Muslim so far. Traditions vary, but in Islamic funeral practices in general, autopsies and cremation are out and the body should be buried quickly, usually in a day or two. Jackson is reported to have asked for cremation in his will and his family has asked for a second autopsy after the first one failed to pinpoint the cause of death without long toxicology tests.
Jehovah’s Witnesses prefer short and simple funerals, usually with a Scripture reading, and warn adherents against funerals with emotional outbursts ranging “from frantic wailing and shouting in the presence of the corpse to joyous festivities after the burial. Unrestrained feasting, drunkenness, and dancing to loud music often characterize such funeral celebrations.”
The focal point of an Islamic funeral is the funeral prayer called the salat al-janazah. An imam facing Mecca leads the faithful in saying the prayer, punctuated by declarations of Allahu Akbar. The corpse of the deceased is placed perpendicular to the qibla, the direction of Mecca in which all worshippers are standing, rather than in the same direction as the faithful as usual in a Christian funeral.
The funeral service could be in the Jehovah’s Witness style, it could be Islamic or it could be a mix of the two (maybe even with borrowings from other traditions as well). If Michael Jackson’s artistic career is anything to go by, the third option wouldn’t be a surprise at all.
http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/200 ... -to-islam/ (http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/06/29/funeral-may-show-if-michael-jackson-converted-to-islam/)
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D.A. -- Don't Sully Michael Jackson's Character
I wonder which character they're talking about.
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Ok what next??? It seems every day something new comes out which has nothing to do with the case. What does the nation of Islam got to do with the case?
wasn't there something early talking about there being extra gaurds, perhaps they were nation of islam. maybe the
question is if they were there because michael wanted them there or if someone else wanted them there.
freedom of religion is one thing but it might need to be made for sure that michael was actually exercising his freedom of choice.
and you are correct there are a lot of things being told about murry and micheal that might have no relevance to the actual crime. question is why.
just another thought here about hipacrocy if one side doesn't want their character soiled but doesn,t mind doing it to the other side.
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I actually find this article offensive, so what if he were a member of the Nation of Islam? How does that make him a bad person? I don't get it. :|
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Nation of Islam
The Nation of Islam is an African-American religious movement founded in Detroit, Michigan, by Wallace D. Fard Muhammad in July 1930. He set out to improve the spiritual, mental, social, and economic condition of the Black men and women of America. From 1934-1975, the NOI was led by Elijah Muhammad, who established businesses, large real estate holdings, armed forces and schools.
During the later part of this period, Malcolm X became a prominent minister and leader in the NOI. Before his assassination in 1965, he had moved to non-separatism and orthodox Sunni Islam after his experience of having made Hajj to Mecca.
Elijah Muhammad's son by his legal wife Noonga, Warith Deen Mohammed, a minister in the NOI, was made national leader of the organization in 1975. He led most of the NOI members to merge and convert to traditional Islam and dissolved the NOI structure. He renamed the group the American Society of Muslims, which he led until 2003.
Splinter groups developed soon after Elijah Muhammad's death, including that of Louis Farrakhan, who was unhappy with Mohammed's leadership. Originally calling his group Final Call, in 1981 Farrakhan took back the name of Nation of Islam, at the same time renewing the original practices and beliefs of Elijah Muhammad. He was followed by a minority of the members at the time of Muhammad's death. The N.O.I.'s national center and headquarters were located in Chicago, Illinois at the Mosque Maryam. Farrakhan named it to bridge the gap between his group and African-American Christians, while simultaneously moving toward mainstream Sunni Islam. Farrakhan holds his Sunday meetings at 10AM locally, the same as most churches.
The number of members of the Nation of Islam is believed to be between 20,000 and 50,000. Most of the members are in the United States, but there are small communities in other countries, such as Canada, United Kingdom, France, and Trinidad and Tobago. Another reformist branch is The Nation of Gods and Earths.
The Southern Poverty Law Center has classified the Nation of Islam as a hate group.
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The NOI where surrounding MJ........After his 2005 trial Louis Farrakhan sent many NOI bodyguards to protect Michael. There were death threats made...
Tohme Tohme. Grace Rwambra, and Jessie Jackson, are all NOI's..the list goes on.
MJ was surrounded by them.
Maybe, they suspect the NOI for his death, just like they killed Malcom X !!! (supposedly)
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-hist ... sassinated (http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/malcolm-x-assassinated)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gt5TY6QBk8o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gt5TY6QBk8o)
[youtube:y3uowoud]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gt5TY6QBk8o[/youtube:y3uowoud]
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Did we read anything where Murray connects MJ to the N.O.I? Where and why do we have N.O.I now? Where did it come from?
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There are many different ways to think about NOI. However, some people believe they are fundamentally like this:
http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-nation-of-islam.htm (http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-nation-of-islam.htm)
or that NOI killed Malcolm X:
http://www.mobilization2-21.com/malcolms.htm (http://www.mobilization2-21.com/malcolms.htm)
or that NOI is responsible for assassinations and pedophilia like this:
http://jamsidedown.com/2007/08/chauncey-bailey.html (http://jamsidedown.com/2007/08/chauncey-bailey.html)
or that NOI, Leonard Muhammad, had to be fired by Michael Jackson:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,118245,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,118245,00.html)
I am not expressing an opinion. Their reputation is quite negative in some circles and some hold strongly to this belief.
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For NOI, before a member is fully... i guess initiated, they take on the last name X. It's interesting that News of the World says "Mr. X" murdered Michael. And what type of sting was Michael involved in exactly? Through the years, there seem to be a few "schemes" and criminal behavior associated with NOI... I've wondered if close to the trial date, NOI's name would surface again... I am not clear about them.
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D.A. -- Don't Sully Michael Jackson's Character (http://www.tmz.com/2011/04/18/michael-jackson-nation-of-islam-court-documents-prosecution-weirdo/)
8 minutes ago by TMZ Staff
The L.A. County District Attorney has filed a motion asking the judge in the Michael Jackson wrongful death case to stop Conrad Murray's defense team from using any evidence involving the Nation of Islam.
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/04/18/0418-conrad-michael-islam-ex-tmz.jpg)
According to documents obtained by TMZ, District Attorney Steve Cooley explains, "Evidence concerning the Nation of Islam ... is irrelevant to this case because it does not relate to the defendant's participation in Michael Jackson's death."
But there's a deeper storyline -- Cooley's move is a preemptive strike to keep the defense from trying to make Michael Jackson look like a weirdo ... and an unsympathetic character ... and connecting MJ to the N.O.I. would make him very unsympathetic with a jury.
And Cooley wants to prevent the defense attacking MJ's bodyguard Alberto Alvarez who claims he was ordered by Dr. Murray to hide evidence of Propofol in MJ's bedroom.
Alvarez had been convicted of a misdemeanor 11 years ago, which Cooley believes is irrelevant.
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Michael_Jackson_(Conversion_to_Islam)
I enlarged text that I believe is the important parts here in this article. I believe that any mention of Michael and his affiliation with the NOI would be tarnishing (sully) his name and would put him in a negative light based on untrue rumours. See the link above which debunks alot of rumours. NOI is not well liked nor does it have a very good reputation which would cause some people in the public or the jury to have a negative (unsympathetic) impression of MJ. Cooley is right it has nothing to do with Murray and his participation in MJ's (fake) death.
I believe by adding Alberto in this article and saying Cooley wants to prevent him from being attacked is a hint towards Alberto possible being in the NOI. I don't believe the big deal or attack would be because of a misdemeanor. I believe that was added just to throw in an alternative to distract people from the real reason.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sully (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sully)
1sul·ly verb
Definition of SULLY
transitive verb
: to make soiled or tarnished : defile
Below quote taken from the link above.
There is no evidence that the Nation of Islam was associated with Michael for any other purpose than for security - and they were later fired from that post according to the reports.
The below link is highly recommended reading. It will definetly explain some things regarding FBI and what we are currently discussing in TIAI April 11 thread. I posted an article in that thread regarding LAPD and Steve Cooley starting a oversite team.
http://da.co.la.ca.us/history/cooley.htm (http://da.co.la.ca.us/history/cooley.htm)
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18688&p=323759#p323759 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18688&p=323759#p323759)
[youtube:1ftvy5vr]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-c3wWA1F5zc[/youtube:1ftvy5vr]
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This is a fantastic speech by Louis about Michael Jackson....worth a look ...
http://newsroom.blogs.cnn.com/2009/07/1 ... l-jackson/ (http://newsroom.blogs.cnn.com/2009/07/13/louis-farrakhan-on-michael-jackson/)
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Farrakhan says something very curious during his speech entitled, "The Crucifixion of Michael Jackson"
He says, that a week before 6/25, a friend contacted Farrakhan and said that Michael needed his help. Farrakhan replies, "Why"? "He hasn't called me." And when the friend explains and says something like, "one of your members works for Michael" (why Farrakhan wouldn't know that one of his members worked for Michael Jackson is quite odd and unbelievable...) Anyway, Farrakhan says he'll "think about it." Keep in mind that Farrakhan says Michael considered him a very trusted friend and confidant but he wanted to "think about" what ever Michael needed so desperately in that moment.
A trusted friend says "he'll think about" helping Michael who was in need? And then Farrakhan shares, "when I got the call saying that Michael was ill" or something like that, "I was in Africa." He goes on to say he knew when he received the second call that "Michael was gone." This has always struck me in my gut as very strange. Farrakhan says this with great tenderness and emotion. However, I've always found it curious that Farrakhan seemed hesitant to reach out to Michael. ...If that story is true. Is Farrakhan friend or foe? Many say friend. Any other thoughts?
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Farrakhan says something very curious during his speech entitled, "The Crucifixion of Michael Jackson"
He says, that a week before 6/25, a friend contacted Farrakhan and said that Michael needed his help. Farrakhan replies, "Why"? "He hasn't called me." And when the friend explains and says something like, "one of your members works for Michael" (why Farrakhan wouldn't know that one of his members worked for Michael Jackson is quite odd and unbelievable...) Anyway, Farrakhan says he'll "think about it." Keep in mind that Farrakhan says Michael considered him a very trusted friend and confidant but he wanted to "think about" what ever Michael needed so desperately in that moment.
A trusted friend says "he'll think about" helping Michael who was in need? And then Farrakhan shares, "when I got the call saying that Michael was ill" or something like that, "I was in Africa." He goes on to say he knew when he received the second call that "Michael was gone." This has always struck me in my gut as very strange. Farrakhan says this with great tenderness and emotion. However, I've always found it curious that Farrakhan seemed hesitant to reach out to Michael. ...If that story is true. Is Farrakhan friend or foe? Many say friend. Any other thoughts?
I have always wondered that too.....Louis was at the memorial, sitting behind the family.
Why he felt he needed to talk about his death, especially the videos released about the crucifiction of Michael Jackson series, makes he look suspicious.
That's why I always wondered whether MJ is maybe taking them down with the help of the government ??? They have a million man march, and seem to be growing stronger everyday. Many singers are starting to follow the NOI.
Remember their newspaper is call the "The final call"
[youtube:33v1a9g5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xohZT-tdA_8&feature=related[/youtube:33v1a9g5][youtube:33v1a9g5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqAI6rTDVJw[/youtube:33v1a9g5]
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Alvarez had been convicted of a misdemeanor 11 years ago, which Cooley believes is irrelevant.
That happened in 1990, 21 years ago :evil:
06/15/90 JORGE ALBERTO ALVAREZ v. UNITED STATES
DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA COURT OF APPEALS
Docket Number available at http://www.versuslaw.com (http://www.versuslaw.com)
Citation Number available at http://www.versuslaw.com (http://www.versuslaw.com)
June 15, 1990
JORGE ALBERTO ALVAREZ, APPELLANT
v.
UNITED STATES, APPELLEE
John E. Williams was on the brief for appellant.
Jay B. Stephens, United States Attorney, with whom John R. Fisher and Richard L. Edwards, Assistant United States Attorneys, were on the brief for appellee.
Ferren and Schwelb, Associate Judges, and Reilly, Senior Judge.
The opinion of the court was delivered by: Schwelb
Alvarez appeals from his conviction of unlawful possession of a prohibited weapon, a switchblade knife, in violation of D.C. Code 22-3214 (a) (1989). He contends that the trial Judge committed reversible error in denying his pretrial motion to suppress tangible evidence, that evidence consisting of the knife which was recovered from his pocket during a search incident to his arrest. The arrest was predicated on Alvarez' possession of an open can of Budweiser beer on the sidewalk in the vicinity of a social club. Although a warning or a citation might perhaps have been a more proportionate police response to the incident, we agree with the trial Judge that the officer had probable cause to believe that Alvarez was committing a misdemeanor in his presence, and was therefore authorized to arrest him. See D.C. Code § 23-581 (a)(1) (1989). Accordingly, we affirm the conviction.
I
On January 6, 1988, at approximately 11:35 p.m., officers on routine patrol observed Alvarez and several companions socializing on a sidewalk in the vicinity of 16th and Lamont Streets in Northwest Washington, D.C. Alvarez had an open can of Budweiser in his hand. The arresting officer approached him and took the can from him. *fn1 After confirming by observation and smell that some beer remained in the can, the officer placed Alvarez under arrest.
The officer did not see Alvarez drinking from the can, nor did he observe any erratic behavior on Alvarez' part. He testified that he made the arrest "because it's illegal in the District of Columbia to have an open can, open container of alcohol in public." After taking Alvarez into custody, the officer searched him and recovered the knife which led to Alvarez' conviction.
In the trial court, Alvarez filed a motion to suppress the evidence which had been seized from him. After a hearing at which only the arresting officer testified, the trial Judge denied the motion. Alvarez then entered a conditional plea of guilty, preserving his right to seek appellate review of the denial of his motion. This appeal followed.
II
District of Columbia Code Section 25-128 (a) (1989 Supp.) provides in pertinent part that
o person shall in the District of Columbia drink any alcoholic beverage or possess in an open container any alcoholic beverage in any street, alley, park or parking . . . .
The arrest in this case was based on Alvarez' alleged violation of this statute. In his motion to suppress in the trial court, and now on appeal, Alvarez contends simply that the sidewalk is not the street, that his conduct was lawful, *fn2 and that the officer lacked probable cause to arrest him.
We note at the outset that a number of other "open container" ordinances apply by their terms to sidewalks, *fn3 while the District's statute does not. Alvarez also argues, and we agree, that Section 25-128 is a penal statute which must be strictly construed. Browner v. District of Columbia, 549 A.2d 1107, 1115-16 n.19. (D.C. 1988); see City of Hamilton v. Collier, 44 Ohio App. 2d 419, , 339 N.E.2d 851, 853, 73 Ohio Op. 2d 535(1975) (applying rule of lenity and holding that private automobile is not a public place within the meaning of "open container" ordinance). The rule of lenity does not, however, require courts to give criminal statutes their narrowest possible interpretation, and cannot substitute for common sense or the policy underlying a statute. Lemon v. United States, 564 A.2d 1368, 1381 (D.C. 1989). "It can tip the balance in favor of criminal defendants only where, exclusive of the rule, a penal statute's language, structure, purpose and legislative history leave its meaning genuinely in doubt." Id., quoting United States v. Otherson, 637 F.2d 1276, 1285 (9th Cir. 1980). Notwithstanding the lack of specific reference in the District's statute to sidewalks as such, we do not think that such a genuine doubt exists here.
At least in the absence of contrary legislative history or some other comparable indication, courts presume that the legislature intended words in a statute to be given their plain and ordinary meaning. Caminetti v. United States, 242 U.S. 470, 485, 37 S. Ct. 192, 61 L. Ed. 442 (1917); Swinson v. United States, 483 A.2d 1160, 1163 (D.C. 1984). Section 25-128 (a) proscribes the possession of alcohol in an open container in any "street." Although "street" is not defined in title 25 of the D.C. Code, other definitions of the word reveal that it includes the sidewalk. In the municipal regulations, "sidewalk" is defined as "that portion of a street between the curb lines or the lateral lines of a roadway, and the adjacent property lines intended for the use of pedestrians." 18 D.C.M.R. § 9901 (1987) (emphasis added). Our statutory law defines public space as
all the property lines on a street. . . and includes any roadway, tree space, sidewalk, or parking between such property lines.
D.C. Code § 7-1001 (6) (1989) (emphasis added). *fn4
These definitions suggest that the "street" is not just the asphalt portion of the thoroughfare, intended for vehicular traffic. That more accurately describes the "roadway." The "street" includes both the roadway and the sidewalk.
The conception that a "sidewalk" is a part of the street is not unique to the District. "Generally, the term 'street' includes sidewalks, and the sidewalk constitutes a part of the street . . . ." 39 Am. Jur. 2d Highways, Streets, and Bridges, § 8 at 408 (1968) (footnote omitted) (collecting cases). Black's Law Dictionary (5th ed. 1979) defines sidewalk as:
hat part of a public street or highway designed for the use of pedestrians, being exclusively reserved for them, and constructed somewhat differently other portions of the street.
Id. at 1238. See also Town Comm'rs of Centreville v. County Comm'rs of Queen Anne's County, 199 Md. 652, 87 A.2d 599, 601 (1952) ("Generically the term 'street' includes sidewalks . . . . he difference in the manner of use does not render the sidewalk any less a public highway than the rest of the street."); *fn5 Ballantine's Law Dictionary 1178 (3d ed. 1969) ("that part of the street of a municipality which has been set apart and is used for pedestrians"). The word "street," used in its "plain and ordinary" meaning, therefore includes the sidewalk, and Section 25-128 (a) necessarily prohibits the possession on the sidewalk of an open can of Budweiser beer. *fn6
Moreover, the legislative history of the "open container" statute reveals that it was designed to apply to all public areas, and that the legislative design would be frustrated by a construction which excludes sidewalks. As initially enacted in 1934, in the aftermath of the repeal of Prohibition and the adoption of the Twenty-first Amendment, the statute provided that
o person shall in the District of Columbia drink any alcoholic beverage in any street, alley, park or parking. . . .
District of Columbia Alcoholic Beverage Control Act, 48 Stat. 319, 333 (1934), D.C. Code § 25-128 (a) (1981). According to the House of Representatives report on the 1934 legislation, the statute "prohibits drinking in public places." H.R. Rep. No. 274, 73d Cong. 2d Sess. 5 (1934). As previously noted, a sidewalk is within the statutory definition of a "public place."
In 1985, the Council of the District of Columbia amended the law to insert the phrase "or possess in an open container any alcoholic beverage." Ban on Possession of Open Alcoholic Beverage Containers Act of 1985, D.C. Law 6-64, § 2, 32 D.C. Reg. 5970 (1985). The area to which the expanded proscription applied remained "any street, alley, park or parking." The Report of the Council's Committee on Consumer and Regulatory Affairs described the purpose of the 1985 amendment as being "to augment existing law which prohibits drinking of alcoholic beverages in public, by also prohibiting the possession, in public, of any alcoholic beverage in an open container." Id. at 1 (emphasis added). The amendment was introduced "in response to complaints of drinking in public throughout the city, and the inability to prosecute persons drinking in public unless they are actually observed drinking from the container." Id. at 2.
The legislative history shows, then, that Congress in 1934 and the Council more than half a century later both intended to prohibit these activities in public, and that they intended the words "any street, alley, park or parking," to accomplish that goal. Interpreting the statute as Alvarez urges would thwart the legislative intent. If we were to hold that the literal definition of "street" includes only the roadway, a statute designed to prohibit the possession of open alcohol containers "in public" would leave those bent on boozing in the street free to do so in that area where much or most activity "in public" occurs, namely, on the sidewalk. We are not prepared to conclude that Congress and the Council intended to prohibit the disfavored activity "in public" but to exempt from the proscription the public area where most of that activity would take place. As Judge Learned Hand once put it, "statutes always have some purpose or object to accomplish, whose sympathetic and imaginative discovery is the surest guide to their meaning." Cabell v. Markham, 148 F.2d 737, 739 (2d Cir.), aff'd, 326 U.S. 404, 66 S. Ct. 193, 90 L. Ed. 165 (1945), quoted in J. Parreco & Son v. District of Columbia Rental Hous. Comm'n, 567 A.2d 43, 46 (D.C. 1989). That purpose or object would not be accomplished if we were to read "street" as excluding "sidewalk."
The interpretation of the statute which Alvarez asks us to adopt is contrary both to the natural import of its words and to the evident legislative purpose for its enactment. We hold that Section 25-128 (a) applies to sidewalks as well as to roadways, and that the arresting officer had probable cause to believe that Alvarez was violating it.
III
Citing Taglavore v. United States, 291 F.2d 262 (9th Cir. 1961), Alvarez suggests on appeal that his arrest was pretextual, and that the government's evidence was obtained as a result of an arrest for a minor and unrelated misdemeanor. Although his concern is understandable, *fn7 his claim must fail because he has failed to produce any evidence to support it.
So far as we can discern from the record, the claim of pretextuality was not made in the trial court, and we review only for plain error. Section 25-128 (b) provides that any person violating the provisions of subsection (a) may be fined no more than $100, or imprisoned for not more than 90 days, or both. According to the uncontradicted evidence, Alvarez was committing in the officer's presence a misdemeanor for which he could serve time in jail. The statute, on its face, provides a legitimate basis for making the arrest, and there was no contrary testimony.
Alvarez has submitted no evidence to suggest that the arresting officer was acting pursuant to some improper ulterior motive. Although Alvarez was of Hispanic background and spoke little or no English, we cannot assume on that basis alone that the officer arrested him as a result of racial or ethnic animus. See City of Lake Charles v. Henning, 414 So. 2d 331, 334-35 (La. 1982). Moreover, if an arrest is objectively justifiable on the basis of probable cause, the officer's subjective motivation is generally deemed irrelevant. Scott v. United States, 436 U.S. 128, 138, 98 S. Ct. 1717, 56 L. Ed. 2d 168 (1978); Dunham v. District of Columbia, 442 A.2d 121, 127 n.8 (D.C. 1982).
IV
For the foregoing reasons, the judgment of conviction is hereby
Affirmed. *fn8
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Opinion Footnotes
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*fn1 The officer testified that Alvarez handed the can to him.
*fn2 "In the absence of a statute [or ordinance] to the contrary, mere possession of intoxicating liquor is not a crime." See 48 CJS Intoxicating Liquors § 266, at 779 (1981), and authorities cited at n.10.
*fn3 See, e.g., the ordinances under consideration in People v. Lee, 58 N.Y.2d 491, , 448 N.E.2d 1328, 1329, 462 N.Y.S.2d 417, 418 (1983) ("any public place, including but not limited to any public highway, public street, public sidewalk . . ."); and in City of Lake Charles v. Henning, 414 So. 2d 331, 332 (La. 1982) ("any public street, sidewalk, park, playground, or any unenclosed public place . . .").
*fn4 See also Grace v. United States, 461 U.S. 171, 175-84, 103 S. Ct. 1702, 75 L. Ed. 2d 736 (1983) (sidewalk outside Supreme Court is public place for purposes of First Amendment); State v. Van Dyne, 26 Ohio App. 3d 95, , 498 N.E.2d 221, 222 (1985) (sidewalk a few feet from appellant's residence is a "public place" for purposes of Ohio's "open container" law).
*fn5 Since the District of Columbia derives its common law from Maryland, decisions of the Court of Appeals of Maryland regarding issues which have not been decided by the appellate courts of this jurisdiction are accorded great weight, and perhaps greater weight than decisions of the courts of other states, especially in relation to the law of real property. In re Parnell's Estate, 275 F. Supp. 609, 610 (D.D.C. 1967); see also Tydings v. Tydings, 567 A.2d 886, 893 (D.C. 1989) (concurring opinion).
*fn6 In WEBSTER'S NEW INTERNATIONAL DICTIONARY 2332 (2d ed. 1948), however, "sidewalk" is defined as "a walk for foot passengers at the side of a street or road; a foot pavement." We decline to "make a fortress out of the dictionary," Cabell v. Markham, 148 F.2d 737, 739 (2d Cir.) (Learned Hand, J.), aff'd, 326 U.S. 404, 66 S. Ct. 193, 90 L. Ed. 165 (1945), and prefer instead to leave it to the scholastically inclined reader to determine whether this definition is helpful to Alvarez or to the government.
*fn7 As Professor Anthony Amsterdam has had occasion to observe:
whether you and I get arrested and subjected to a full scale body search or are sent upon our respective ways with a pink multi-form and a disapproving cluck when we happen to go for a drive and leave our operator's licenses on the dressing table depends upon the state of the digestion of any officer who stops us -- or, more likely, upon our obsequiousness, the price of our automobiles, and the formality of our dress, the shortness of our hair or the color of our skin.
A. Amsterdam, Perspectives on the Fourth Amendment, 58 MINN. L. REV. 349, 416 (1974). See generally State v. Slatter, 66 Ohio St. 2d 452, , 423 N.E.2d 100, 104, 20 Ohio Op. 3d 383(1981) (issuance of citation appropriate for violation of open container law, which is a "minor misdemeanor"; statute so providing "acts to preclude arrest and is a guarantee of personal freedom given by the legislature where no such right existed before").
Alvarez has not raised, and we do not decide, the question whether there was any constitutional or other infirmity, in light of the relatively trivial nature of the offense for which Alvarez was taken into custody, in the officer's decision to arrest him rather than to proceed by citation, and then to subject him to a full search. See Gustafson v. Florida, 414 U.S. 260, 94 S. Ct. 488, 38 L. Ed. 2d 456 (1973); cf. id. at 266 (Stewart J., Concurring); Hill v. United States, 135 U.S. App. D.C. 233, 236, 418 F.2d 449, 452 (1968); Watts v. United States, 297 A.2d 790, 792 (D.C. 1972); State v. Hehman, 90 Wash. 2d 45, 578 P.2d 527 (1978) (en banc). We invite the attention of all concerned, however, to the eminently sensible observation of the Supreme Court of Washington in Hehman, 90 Wash. 2d at , 78 P.2d at 529, that
t makes little sense to jail a man who, when he appears before the Judge, will be clearly qualified for release without bail.
Because municipal codes often permit custodial arrest for minor and even trivial offenses, the risk of pretext arrests is heightened.
(Citations omitted.)
*fn8 Alvarez has not challenged the constitutionality of the "open container" statute, and we do not address that question. Compare People v. Lee, supra n.4, in which a closely divided New York Court of Appeals held an "open container" ordinance which was similar to our statute unconstitutional, with People v. Elhage, 147 A.D.2d 911, 537 N.Y.S.2d 375 (4th Dept. 1989), upholding the validity of a more refined ordinance, which required proof of intent to consume the alcohol in a public place. See also State v. Van Dyne, supra n.8, sustaining the constitutionality of Ohio "open container" statute as applied to defendant who held a can of beer on a sidewalk a few feet from his home.
http://dc.findacase.com/research/wfrmDo ... .DC.htm/qx (http://dc.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.19900615_0004.DC.htm/qx)
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Alvarez appeals from his conviction of unlawful possession of a prohibited weapon, a switchblade knife, in violation of D.C. Code 22-3214 (a) (1989). He contends that the trial Judge committed reversible error in denying his pretrial motion to suppress tangible evidence, that evidence consisting of the knife which was recovered from his pocket during a search incident to his arrest. The arrest was predicated on Alvarez' possession of an open can of Budweiser beer on the sidewalk in the vicinity of a social club. Although a warning or a citation might perhaps have been a more proportionate police response to the incident, we agree with the trial Judge that the officer had probable cause to believe that Alvarez was committing a misdemeanor in his presence, and was therefore authorized to arrest him. See D.C. Code § 23-581 (a)(1) (1989). Accordingly, we affirm the conviction.
I thought you could walk around with a gun in your pocket in america.... ;)
But anyway Alvarez is very bad, bad person....he is convicted!
How in heaven could Michael hire such a person?
Give me a break....and a straight jacket.... ;)
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D.A. -- Don't Sully Michael Jackson's Character
I wonder which character they're talking about.
LOL
Inside of a tornado, the eye is really calm.
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Ok what next??? It seems every day something new comes out which has nothing to do with the case. What does the nation of Islam got to do with the case?
well it was roumord that the head of mj's bodyguards was a member of N.O.I and that he chose most of the other bodyguards, they were also members of N.O.I. (he also had bodyguards that were not members of N.O.I) MJ also had a nanny "nanny Rose" that was a member of N.O.I. I dont know if Alvarez is a member of N.O.I .. maybe he is......
IF I remember it correctly, Alvarez has a sister who has been some kind of girllfriend to Murray ... thats makes another connection to N.O.I,. I also heard somewhere that the N.O.I made MJ chose Murray as his doctor... (if its true .. I dont know).....
This is relevant to the case because they were in MJ's home, they had access to him and maybe they had a second agenda... who knows....
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Do you think one of MJ's bodyguards killed him?? Not necessarily the ones working that day....NOI ordered the murder....since he had close affiliation with them.
Remember that MJ has half Jewish children. Debbie Rowe is a Jew, and the NOI hate the Jews...
But then that doesn't make sense because MJ's children played with Louis Farrenkhans children. :shock: :? :? :? :?
Just thinking out load .
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Ok what next??? It seems every day something new comes out which has nothing to do with the case. What does the nation of Islam got to do with the case?
wasn't there something early talking about there being extra gaurds, perhaps they were nation of islam. maybe the
question is if they were there because michael wanted them there or if someone else wanted them there.
freedom of religion is one thing but it might need to be made for sure that michael was actually exercising his freedom of choice.
and you are correct there are a lot of things being told about murry and micheal that might have no relevance to the actual crime. question is why.
just another thought here about hipacrocy if one side doesn't want their character soiled but doesn,t mind doing it to the other side.
You see,TMZ is causing a war. You never talk about religion. Religion is private, everyone has the right to chose the religion they feel comfortable with. Richard Gere is a Buddist, does it make him a bad person? NO. We all pray to the same God named differently. Neither does Michael If and I said If Michael decided to convert into muslim that is his choice. Jermaine did it so why not Michael. It is only religion for God sake. He did not become a terorist.. Even if this comes up in court, it is irrelevant. I do not know where they are coming from.It get's me very angry..I feel they do not know what to write so they just plaster anything so it sells, again MONEY blessings.
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Ok what next??? It seems every day something new comes out which has nothing to do with the case. What does the nation of Islam got to do with the case?
well it was roumord that the head of mj's bodyguards was a member of N.O.I and that he chose most of the other bodyguards, they were also members of N.O.I. (he also had bodyguards that were not members of N.O.I) MJ also had a nanny "nanny Rose" that was a member of N.O.I. I dont know if Alvarez is a member of N.O.I .. maybe he is......
IF I remember it correctly, Alvarez has a sister who has been some kind of girllfriend to Murray ... thats makes another connection to N.O.I,. I also heard somewhere that the N.O.I made MJ chose Murray as his doctor... (if its true .. I dont know).....
This is relevant to the case because they were in MJ's home, they had access to him and maybe they had a second agenda... who knows....
Well Michael had the last say. If he knew they were NOI he could have fired them. They were paid very well, so I don't think they had something to do with it. Anyways, Michael is alive why are we talking about this? No one killed Michael. Helloooooooo... Blessings.
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Ok what next??? It seems every day something new comes out which has nothing to do with the case. What does the nation of Islam got to do with the case?
wasn't there something early talking about there being extra gaurds, perhaps they were nation of islam. maybe the
question is if they were there because michael wanted them there or if someone else wanted them there.
freedom of religion is one thing but it might need to be made for sure that michael was actually exercising his freedom of choice.
and you are correct there are a lot of things being told about murry and micheal that might have no relevance to the actual crime. question is why.
just another thought here about hipacrocy if one side doesn't want their character soiled but doesn,t mind doing it to the other side.
You see,TMZ is causing a war. You never talk about religion. Religion is private, everyone has the right to chose the religion they feel comfortable with. Richard Gere is a Buddist, does it make him a bad person? NO. We all pray to the same God named differently. Neither does Michael If and I said If Michael decided to convert into muslim that is his choice. Jermaine did it so why not Michael. It is only religion for God sake. He did not become a terorist.. Even if this comes up in court, it is irrelevant. I do not know where they are coming from.It get's me very angry..I feel they do not know what to write so they just plaster anything so it sells, again MONEY blessings.
it is funny to me how all this stuff is coming out in a way that is always one side or the other trying to preimpt the other side from using it either in the defence or the prosecution. it is almost like someone is trying to tell the story without saying ok this is the story. does that make any sense to anyone? and although the judge choses whether or not to can be used in court it is still out there, like once it is you can take it back from people memory :roll:
does anyone know when during the trial michael thought someone was trying to poison him if that was when n.o.i. was guarding him? it seems like that should give some kind of clue as to whether he trusted them or whether it was someone else's idea to have them around.
like i tried to say before it is not so much important who he chose only that it was indeed his choice.
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There are many different ways to think about NOI. However, some people believe they are fundamentally like this:
http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-nation-of-islam.htm (http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-nation-of-islam.htm)
or that NOI killed Malcolm X:
http://www.mobilization2-21.com/malcolms.htm (http://www.mobilization2-21.com/malcolms.htm)
or that NOI is responsible for assassinations and pedophilia like this:
http://jamsidedown.com/2007/08/chauncey-bailey.html (http://jamsidedown.com/2007/08/chauncey-bailey.html)
or that NOI, Leonard Muhammad, had to be fired by Michael Jackson:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,118245,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,118245,00.html)
I am not expressing an opinion. Their reputation is quite negative in some circles and some hold strongly to this belief.
Leonard Muhammad is on the witness list isn't he?
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There are many different ways to think about NOI. However, some people believe they are fundamentally like this:
http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-nation-of-islam.htm (http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-nation-of-islam.htm)
or that NOI killed Malcolm X:
http://www.mobilization2-21.com/malcolms.htm (http://www.mobilization2-21.com/malcolms.htm)
or that NOI is responsible for assassinations and pedophilia like this:
http://jamsidedown.com/2007/08/chauncey-bailey.html (http://jamsidedown.com/2007/08/chauncey-bailey.html)
or that NOI, Leonard Muhammad, had to be fired by Michael Jackson:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,118245,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,118245,00.html)
I am not expressing an opinion. Their reputation is quite negative in some circles and some hold strongly to this belief.
Leonard Muhammad is on the witness list isn't he?
[/b][/i][/u]
maybe a thread dedicated to the witness list would be of benefit. sorry i can not remember what topic we were on when it was posted. i have not been here a lot the last little while. stuff goin on . maybe more information on the witnesses would help to put some pieces together.
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There are many different ways to think about NOI. However, some people believe they are fundamentally like this:
http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-nation-of-islam.htm (http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-nation-of-islam.htm)
or that NOI killed Malcolm X:
http://www.mobilization2-21.com/malcolms.htm (http://www.mobilization2-21.com/malcolms.htm)
or that NOI is responsible for assassinations and pedophilia like this:
http://jamsidedown.com/2007/08/chauncey-bailey.html (http://jamsidedown.com/2007/08/chauncey-bailey.html)
or that NOI, Leonard Muhammad, had to be fired by Michael Jackson:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,118245,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,118245,00.html)
I am not expressing an opinion. Their reputation is quite negative in some circles and some hold strongly to this belief.
Leonard Muhammad is on the witness list isn't he?
[/b][/i][/u]
maybe a thread dedicated to the witness list would be of benefit. sorry i can not remember what topic we were on when it was posted. i have not been here a lot the last little while. stuff goin on . maybe more information on the witnesses would help to put some pieces together.
Here is the list
Most already done, courtesy of (link: http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/showt (http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/showt) ... Discussion)
The below is from the Jury Questionnaire. These names are defined with “Listed below are individuals who are potential witnesses or people who might be mentioned during the case.”. I tried to identify as many as I could (the explanations after - is my addition. Google means I searched the names at google and posted an explanation that I thought to be relevant to their identity). If you can identify any other people and their relation to the case please post so that I can update the list. (there could be Murray’s patients that we don’t know so we won't be able to determine everyone's relation). Use this thread to discuss the possible witnesses and possible testimony as well.
Janice Adams – Former Mistress of Murray
David Adams – Las Vegas anesthesiologist
Alberto Alvarez – MJ Bodyguard (Security)
Nicole Alvarez – Murray’s current girlfriend
Dan Anderson - Supervising Criminologist II - Forensic Laboratories
Sade Anding – Former Mistress of Murray
John Andrews - Deputy Medical Examiner - Neuropathology Consult
Erwin Azurdia - Google: could be Emergency Deparment Charge Nurse
Edgar Barrios
Detective Behnke – LAPD Detective
Michelle Bella
Jacqueline Benjamin
Martin Blount – LA Firefighter Paramedic
Donald Boger - Radiology Consultant
Gary Brigandy – Could be Gary Burgandy LA Fire Engineer
Vanessa Brooks
Julie Brown
Robert Budd - Laboratory Analyst
Steven Burdick - Google : Could be a Gastroenterology doctor from Texas
Andrew Butler – Murray’s patient. Phonecall with Murray on June 25th
Selma Calmes - Anesthesiologist Consultant
Kai Chase – MJ Cook
Christopher Clonen - Google : certified computer examiner International Society of Forensic Computer Examiners
Lesley Contreras
Dr. Richelle Cooper - UCLA Emergency Room Physician
Daniel Cruz
Jenna Daddario
Harry Daliwal - AT&T Area Retail Sales Manager
Sarah DeQuintana - Laboratory Analyst
Frank Dileo – MJ’s Manager
Ashraf Elsayegh - Google : Critical Care Medicine, Internal Medicine, Pulmonary Disease near Los Angeles, CA
Karen Faye – MJ’s Makeup artist
Thomas Ferguson
Elissa Fleak – Coroner Investigator
Susan Etok – PhD. London-based Biomaterials Engineer and Trainee Patent Attorney
Eucen Fu - Laboratory Analyst
Nathan Gibbs
Antoinette Gill – Murray’s patient. Phonecall with Murray on June 25th.
Paul Gongaware – AEG CEO
Mark Goodwin – LA firefighter paramedic
Caroll Greuel - Employee of Global Cardiovascular Associates (Murray's office in Nevada)
Joseph Haraszti – Google : Doctor – psychiatrist and addiction specialist
Steven Hoeffler – Could be a typo and mean Michael’s plastic surgeon Steven Hoefflin
Quan Hadong
Reynaldo Henry
Richard Holly
Steven Howard
Blanket Jackson – MJ’s family
Jackie Jackson – MJ’s Family
Janet Jackson – MJ’s family
Jermaine Jackson – MJ’s Family
Joe Jackson – MJ’s Family
Latoya Jackson – MJ’s Family
Katherine Jackson – MJ’s Family
Marlon Jackson – MJ’s Family
Paris Jackson – MJ’s Family
Prince Jackson – MJ’s Family
Randy Jackson – MJ’s Family
Rebbie Jackson – MJ’s Family
Tito Jackson – MJ’s Family
Bob Johnson
Graham Jones
Kathy Jorrie - Google : Lawyer for AEG Live for TII tour
Arnold Klein – MJ’s Dermatologist
Philip Larson - Google : Could be an anesthesiologist at UCLA
Cathy Law - Doctor DDS Consultant on AR
Cheryln Lee – MJ’s nurse practioner
Robert Linnell – LA Paramedics EMS medical supervisor
Jaime Lintemoot – LA Co. Coroner's office toxicologist and criminalist
Simon Lo - Google: Could be internal medicine and gastroenterology doctor
Kimberly Love
Timothy Lopez - Pharmacist, owner of Applied Pharmacy Services, Las Vegas
Gene Loveland
Nenita Malibiran - Murray's former girlfriend, filed a child support lawsuit
Stephen Marks
Orlando Martinez – LAPD Robbery/Homicide Detective
Stephen Marx - DEA Forensic Computer Specialist
Allan Metzger – MJ’s doctor Lupus Specialist - Rheumatologist & Internist
Dan Meyers - LAPD Robbery/Homicide Detective
Jeffrey Mills – Fire Captain
James Moore
Bridgette Morgan – Former Mistress of Murray
Marshall Morgan
Faheem Muhammad – MJ’s bodyguard
Roselyn Muhammad - MJ’s kids nanny
Connie Ng - work at Murray’s Nevada Clinic, Global Cardiovascular Associates
Thao Nguyen – UCLA Cardiologist
Blanca Nicholas – reported as an alias used by MJ when getting prescriptions
Jimmy Nicholas - reported as an alias used by MJ when getting prescriptions
Sarah O’Leary - work at Murray’s Nevada Clinic, Global Cardiovascular Associates
Edward Okwueze
Kenny Ortega – TII Director
Phillip Patel - Google : Could be a Cardiology doctor from California
Jason Phiffer – could be a typo and mean Arnold Klein’s Assistant Jason Pfeiffer
Randy Phillips – AEG Executive
Oscar Pleitez - Laboratory Analyst
Warren Porche - LAPD Detective
Joshua Prager - Google : Could be a doctor- pain medicine specialist
Joanne Prashad – Doctor that called Murray on June 25th about a patient.
Stephen Pustilnik - Google : Doctor from Texas. Medical Examiner and Pathology
Tohme Ramses – Dr. Tohme Tohme MJ’s manager
Toby Rici
Janet Rimicci - Google : Could be Director of Operations at UCLA Department of Neurosurgery
Steve Robel - Google: Santa Barbara County Sheriff investigator that worked in 2005 MJ case
Christopher Rogers - Chief Forensic Medical Division LA Co. Deputy Coroner
Amir Dan Rubin - Google : Could be COO of UCLA
Richard Ruffalo – Dr. Anesthesiologist & Pharmacist Expert consult to prosecution
Stacey Howe Ruggles – Murray’s Assistant (phonecall on June 25th)
Robert Russell – Murray’s patient. Phonecall on June 25th.
Grace Rwaramaba – MJ’s former nanny
Karl Sanger
Lakshmanan Sathyavagiswaran - LA Chief Medical Examiner - Coroner for the County of Los Angeles
Richard Senneff – LA Firefighter Paramedic
Spencer Shelton
Russell Sherwin - Deputized Consultant in Pulmonary Pathology
David Slavit – Doctor who did the AEG insurance physical
Scott Smith – LAPD Detective Smith
Alon Steinberg - Google : Could be Cardiology doctor from California
Jeff Strohm - Sprint Nextel Custodian of Records
Diego Tabares
Leah Tanner - work at Murray’s Nevada Clinic, Global Cardiovascular Associates
John Thomas
Jukka Toivola
Larry Tolbert – MJ Security sometimes referred as Larry Muhammad
Patrick Tracy – Could be a typo and mean Dr. Patrick Treacy Ireland Dermatologist
Shawn Terrell
Gerard White - Google : The man who claims Murray killed his father during surgery
Timm Whooley - Google : could be TII Tour Business Manager Timm Woolley
Louis Williams – MJ Security also Michael Amir Williams’s brother
Michael Amir Williams – MJ’s Assistant
Jason Willis
Ed Winters – LA Assistant Chief Coroner
Michelle Zeidler - Google: Could be a UCLA doctor Pulmonary and Critical Care
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Debbie Rowe, Michael Jackson's ex-wife and the mother of his two eldest children, is worried her kids are becoming Muslims.
In the last few days, Rowe has complained to friends that she does not want her children, Paris and Prince, exposed to the Nation of Islam. Jackson and his kids are currently living in the most expensive "safe house" in history, a Beverly Hills mansion rented, patrolled and monitored by the group.
But the reason Rowe is upset is a surprising one and heretofore unknown. She has told these friends that she is Jewish, and that the children, by birth, are Jewish, too.
Even more surprising is that Jackson may have forgotten this, if he knew it at all.
Of course, there are many ironies here, starting with the fact that Rowe signed away her rights when she "gave" Jackson these children. She has since been compensated handsomely.
But according to sources, she has not seen Paris or Prince since Jackson moved his family from Santa Barbara to Beverly Hills.
The more irony, of course, is the Nation of Islam is an anti-Semitic group. Grace, the nanny Jackson employs -- and who watches over the children and is responsible for their well-being -- is a member.
There is no evidence that Jackson has actually joined the Nation of Islam yet, but his brother, Jermaine Jackson has been a member since 1989. NOI chief of staff Leonard Muhammad is now, for all intents and purposes, running Jackson's schedule and businesses. He was seated at the head of the table at the summit meeting on Monday for Jackson's lawyers and accountants.
Strangely enough, when Jackson hooked up with controversial Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, he made no mention of his children's religious origins. In fact, when Jackson told me at a private dinner that he'd taken the kids to synagogue, there was no indication from him that it might have something to do with this.
Nevertheless, it should be interesting to see what happens next -- if Rowe decides that the NOI situation could imperil the children she gave birth to, and how she might overcome the agreement she's bound to.
Rowe's attorney, Iris Finsilver, confirmed that Rowe is indeed Jewish but had no comment otherwise on the situation.
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N.O.I and Islam are two different things. N.O.I has their own rules. If I need to explain a little. In traditional Islam, Allah is one, who has no partners but N.O.I says Wallace D. Fard came as God incarnate (God is the black man). In traditional Islam, Muhammad is the final prophet of Islam, no one comes after him but N.O.I says Elijah Muhammad is the prophet to tell about incarnation of Fard. Traditional Islam says about race that all are equal regardless of color of skin, judged on behavior but N.O.I says that the original black race of man is superior. In traditional Islam it is believed that Allah created the universe, first humans were Adam and Eve but N.O.I believes that black scientists created the plan which repeats every 25,000 years. Traditional Islam says the Qur'an revealed to Muhammad from God through the Angel Gabriel but N.O.I says black scientists created and revealed the Bible and the Qur'an.
I'm a Muslim too and when I read N.O.I's rules, I see there's only one thing that can be in common with Muslims and that is they read Qur'an too BUT still they read the Qur'an they created themselves, not the one we read which was sent by God. Shortly I can say that I have no idea about why this group use the name of N.O.Islam because as far as I see they have nothing to do with Islam. And people shouldn't confuse this group with other Muslims as they have nothing in common with Muslims. They have their own rules and they believe that everything was created by black people even the Bible and Qur'an.
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Whoa whoa whoa... back to the title of the article... since when does the DA care about attacks on Michael's character??? 'cuz they sure didn't care when they set out to attack and destroy it in 2005 :evil:
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Whoa whoa whoa... back to the title of the article... since when does the DA care about attacks on Michael's character??? 'cuz they sure didn't care when they set out to attack and destroy it in 2005 :evil:
You know, I wondered about that too!! I really can't wait to see where TMZ fits into this hoax when it's all done. I doubt that they could be the bad guy or they'd lose viewers, so they have to be tied or used in a good way .
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I still say that TMZ is run by Michael when it has to do with news about HIS HOAX. This Is Hissens in a nutshell. He has his reasons for everything he has TMZ print. We are not and will never be totally privy to why he uses TMZ thus.
For instance, let's just delete this TMZ thread/forum, and ask Souza not to allow anyone to ever post any articles from TMZ again. How long do you think it would be before this forum lost members? TMZ has given us most of the info having to do with MJ, because he wants it like that. I think his nephew Donte when attacking TMZ by saying what he did aligning them with the Devil was more or less trying to equate them with the tabloids that did a lynch job on his uncle. He was playing with minds. They all know that MJ uses them in order to at times, prove that many people believe in the rags so much, and takes whatever they read from them and just runs with it. His song Tabloid Junkie tells just that.
He is trying to prove how easily most media takes what TMZ prints and copies and pastes the stuff coming from them without legit researching the facts.
Many of us have researched our cabooses off since 6-25-09, and I don't know about most, but I've always researched. I never believed those stories about MJ that ran in the tabloids back then, and I don't believe everything TMZ writes about either, because some of it is intentionally being written to mess with the other media outlets per MJ. MJ is "punking" the other media outlets sort of speak.
When I read anything, I take it with a grain of salt. It will be almost 3 years since I watched news on the tube. I don't watch CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS and et al. I get my news from online. When I do want to see what the MSM (lame stream media) is talking about, I check the Drudge Report. Otherwise, I read alternative news, and I stay alert, aware and awake to what sounds true to me, what sounds false and what may be or may not be true. I then file it in my computer brain, and pull it back up if needed.
This is what I do with TMZ. I am convinced MJ is in control of all aspects that have to do with him. It is cleared thru him before it is printed. Again, we won't always understand his reasoning, but he does have an agenda. He probably also keeps it documented in order. I especially remember the walking casket. Lol Some got offensive, and really some do get indignant a little too much it seems when I don't see it as being warranted, and one can't smother the man with one's own feelings about anything concerning his life. He owes us nothing.
Matter of fact, since when did we have to learn anything having to do with MJ after 6-25-09? Where is it written that we were on a need to know basis about his will or estate? We shouldn't be getting as much info as we get concerning this case. This is what also proved to me that it was a hoax. Why do some prople act as if they are owed a play-by-play of MJ's life and legacy, and especially as it pertains to his finances and all other things that relate to him? Why in my opinion, it is because MJ wanted it like that. He is the main one planting clues. Otherwise, it doesn't make sense to me that we would get so much info. There has NEVER been another case like this before in HIStory. Never! It is because it is a movie that things are so closely documented, IMO.
As far as the NOI goes, I don't respect nor appreciate Farrakan, because he admitted to Malcolm X's daughter that he had something to do with her father's death. WTH?! Mr. X was my hero, and he is the only man that I say that about, because after God, I am next. God is within me.
I think that around the NOI time is when the family was kept from MJ. Remember, they said that. I believe them. It's hard to call the cops when the cops call Mr. Jackson and he tells the cops that "I don't want to see my family. I make the decisions." Blah-blah-blah. I think they (family) finally got to him between 2003 (when the charges were filed and thru 2005 - support for the trial). Hence, I would have been suspicious of the NOI and the lot of them. Get his family, cousins, uncles, etc to guard his body.
Sometimes, I think that MJ had a clone made up by the powers that be that would pull him out into the public without his knowledge or permission. This is what Papa Joe might have been inferring when he mentioned doubles. Sometimes, I wonder if MJ was the original MJ that held a so-called Blanket over the balcony. 1. How do we know that wasn't a cloned double? 2. How do we know that that wasn't a mind-controlled MJ (done as part of the plot to make him look bad and crazy and unstable - remember, they were talking about taking his children after that)? 3. How do we know that the double didn't have a doll? It stands to reason that if at any time in his life that he was mind-controlled, it had to have been at some point. We can't believe it was true, but then have no speculation as to when it may have happened.
I have read that MJ was made to marry both Lisa and Debbie. Who chews gum at what looks like a shot gun wedding ceremony? And Debbie is quoted saying that she begged MJ for years to let her give him children. Rolls eyes. Something is up with that, because the original MJ already had a son, Omer. So, it could be that MJ was mind-controlled and was made to marry Debbie to keep a big part of his fortune in Jewish hands. This thing is deep and ties very much with the NWO and the stuff that they did to people in the ent. field, sports, beauty pagents and modeling.
I believe that much of this is going to come out. Remember that article that said something about MJ's DNA and how the Estate wanted to make sure none was stolen from his corspe? These are the kinds of things that make one go hmmmmmmmmmmmm. I knew then what was up. MJ was more or less saying that any other children that came after Blanket are not his. He knows what's up.
I think MJ has lived a more normal life than a lot of folks believe. I think that around 2001/2002 that didn't sit well with some in evil power circles so they started messing with him AGAIN. I think one can clearly see two MJ's in the Bashir interview. I think MJ was fed up with it all around that time, hence the Sony speeches and him talking about how the History told to us is a lie. It is one big fact blankety-blank lie - indeed. The powers that be shut him up and pulled out the cloned MJ - and there you go. If MJ was on drugs, they did it to him and probably shot him up with demoral so that the clone could make mischief and fool people. That drug is also used in mind-controlled situations.
I didn't mean to offend or to go off on this, and I think I should stop for now, but I do believe that much of the wrong done in the entertainment industry, and what was done to MJ is part of what he is trying to expose. Truth is stranger than fiction. A lot is still left to be exposed and explored, like the fact that there really are off-worldly beings that control the intelligence power in the US and in some countrys abroad.
By the way, Farrakan just put out a speech titled - "The Jews Control Blacks in Entertainment." It's on You Tube.
Again, Souza please stop posting TMZ and TS, and then we'll see how long this board lasts. Of course, some would argue that that would prove that TMZ and TS are part of the intelligence powers that wants to make us naive and gullible people thing that MJ hoaxed his death, and for us not to believe that it is MJ Himself that wants us to believe it, and wants to wake us up.
Some think he is dead. So, I don't know why they think they'll ever feel any different, and especially since they don't believe in TMZ or TS. No one has to or should. Don't read their articles and posts and that a way, you won't get upset. Plus, "just because you read it in a magazine or see it on TV don't make it factual", anyways. MJ is playing that card as we speak and as he goes along.
I believe very strongly that MJ is using The Michael Zone for his own purposes (they were 1st to declare him dead????????), and he is in COMMAND. He is also in charge of his estate attorneys. Are some kidding me? Those ones can't think that he is alive, because S. O. S., there is no way MJ is alive and is not in charge of his Estate/Attorneys. Marlon thanked John McClain in his Hall of Fame speech. More on his Estate later.
Again, Souza please delete this TMZ forum and see what happens. LOL!
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@Peacock - nice post - I do believe MJ is trying to expose the "evil" in the entertainment industry and he is using TMZ to do it. He has taught us to dissect the what is true and what is a lie. I don't think deleting or not being able to post a TMZ article will benefit what Michael is trying to accomplish. Somehow we have been sent on this course for a reason. These articles are put out to us to make us think. JMO :)
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Galaxy - thank you kindly for this piece of information. I'm confused - do you know the Jacksons? And, if so, does Debbie know that Michael is alive?
Debbie Rowe, Michael Jackson's ex-wife and the mother of his two eldest children, is worried her kids are becoming Muslims.
In the last few days, Rowe has complained to friends that she does not want her children, Paris and Prince, exposed to the Nation of Islam. Jackson and his kids are currently living in the most expensive "safe house" in history, a Beverly Hills mansion rented, patrolled and monitored by the group.
But the reason Rowe is upset is a surprising one and heretofore unknown. She has told these friends that she is Jewish, and that the children, by birth, are Jewish, too.
Even more surprising is that Jackson may have forgotten this, if he knew it at all.
Of course, there are many ironies here, starting with the fact that Rowe signed away her rights when she "gave" Jackson these children. She has since been compensated handsomely.
But according to sources, she has not seen Paris or Prince since Jackson moved his family from Santa Barbara to Beverly Hills.
The more irony, of course, is the Nation of Islam is an anti-Semitic group. Grace, the nanny Jackson employs -- and who watches over the children and is responsible for their well-being -- is a member.
There is no evidence that Jackson has actually joined the Nation of Islam yet, but his brother, Jermaine Jackson has been a member since 1989. NOI chief of staff Leonard Muhammad is now, for all intents and purposes, running Jackson's schedule and businesses. He was seated at the head of the table at the summit meeting on Monday for Jackson's lawyers and accountants.
Strangely enough, when Jackson hooked up with controversial Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, he made no mention of his children's religious origins. In fact, when Jackson told me at a private dinner that he'd taken the kids to synagogue, there was no indication from him that it might have something to do with this.
Nevertheless, it should be interesting to see what happens next -- if Rowe decides that the NOI situation could imperil the children she gave birth to, and how she might overcome the agreement she's bound to.
Rowe's attorney, Iris Finsilver, confirmed that Rowe is indeed Jewish but had no comment otherwise on the situation.
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Yeah, and Harvey on live just said, he "knows things that haven't been published...lalal..and that the fingerprint will show inconclusive" And that the cops have already done a reinactment of Michael od ing himself..." He sure seems in the KNOW.
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Yeah, and Harvey on live just said, he "knows things that haven't been published...lalal..and that the fingerprint will show inconclusive" And that the cops have already done a reinactment of Michael od ing himself..." He sure seems in the KNOW.
I haven't watched TMZ live. Did harvey say that?
So even Harvey agrees with the idea that Michael injected himself? If it's like this and if Harvey's not lying, I don't know what to believe anymore. I don't believe Harvey's words, actually I don't trust anyone in this world to actually tell the truth, but why does he say such thing? What does he know? That Michael injected himself? I simply don't know what to make out of all this mess.
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So, some of the posts above me are talking about NOI and Louis Farrakhan. I happened to see a tweet from Chris Brown tonight so I clicked on his name. This is the tweet
chrisbrown Chris Brown by MjbeLIEve_alive
Believe
It only says "Believe". Believe what? below it is this:
chrisbrown Chris Brown I believe in aliens!!
So, after his believe tweet he posts this video of L. Farrakhan. I admit that I haven't seen the video yet but I instantly thought of the posts on this thread and thought I'd share. Blessings.
http://worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video ... S3e5knu0R2 (http://worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhQF0tb3S3e5knu0R2)
Edit: L. Farrakhan led the million man march on Washington? I didn't know that. Hmmm..he talks of UFO's? According to him they do exist and very soon the world will know about this extraordinary reality?
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N.O.I and Islam are two different things. N.O.I has their own rules. If I need to explain a little. In traditional Islam, Allah is one, who has no partners but N.O.I says Wallace D. Fard came as God incarnate (God is the black man). In traditional Islam, Muhammad is the final prophet of Islam, no one comes after him but N.O.I says Elijah Muhammad is the prophet to tell about incarnation of Fard. Traditional Islam says about race that all are equal regardless of color of skin, judged on behavior but N.O.I says that the original black race of man is superior. In traditional Islam it is believed that Allah created the universe, first humans were Adam and Eve but N.O.I believes that black scientists created the plan which repeats every 25,000 years. Traditional Islam says the Qur'an revealed to Muhammad from God through the Angel Gabriel but N.O.I says black scientists created and revealed the Bible and the Qur'an.
I'm a Muslim too and when I read N.O.I's rules, I see there's only one thing that can be in common with Muslims and that is they read Qur'an too BUT still they read the Qur'an they created themselves, not the one we read which was sent by God. Shortly I can say that I have no idea about why this group use the name of N.O.Islam because as far as I see they have nothing to do with Islam. And people shouldn't confuse this group with other Muslims as they have nothing in common with Muslims. They have their own rules and they believe that everything was created by black people even the Bible and Qur'an.[/quote
Purelove thank you for your explanation, I did not know the difference and now I do. blessings.
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N.O.I and Islam are two different things. N.O.I has their own rules. If I need to explain a little. In traditional Islam, Allah is one, who has no partners but N.O.I says Wallace D. Fard came as God incarnate (God is the black man). In traditional Islam, Muhammad is the final prophet of Islam, no one comes after him but N.O.I says Elijah Muhammad is the prophet to tell about incarnation of Fard. Traditional Islam says about race that all are equal regardless of color of skin, judged on behavior but N.O.I says that the original black race of man is superior. In traditional Islam it is believed that Allah created the universe, first humans were Adam and Eve but N.O.I believes that black scientists created the plan which repeats every 25,000 years. Traditional Islam says the Qur'an revealed to Muhammad from God through the Angel Gabriel but N.O.I says black scientists created and revealed the Bible and the Qur'an.
I'm a Muslim too and when I read N.O.I's rules, I see there's only one thing that can be in common with Muslims and that is they read Qur'an too BUT still they read the Qur'an they created themselves, not the one we read which was sent by God. Shortly I can say that I have no idea about why this group use the name of N.O.Islam because as far as I see they have nothing to do with Islam. And people shouldn't confuse this group with other Muslims as they have nothing in common with Muslims. They have their own rules and they believe that everything was created by black people even the Bible and Qur'an.[/quote
Purelove thank you for your explanation, I did not know the difference and now I do. blessings.
do either of you know if noi has any connection with this group the muslim brotherhood? and if so what is that all about? curious from your point of veiw.
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So, some of the posts above me are talking about NOI and Louis Farrakhan. I happened to see a tweet from Chris Brown tonight so I clicked on his name. This is the tweet
chrisbrown Chris Brown by MjbeLIEve_alive
Believe
It only says "Believe". Believe what? below it is this:
chrisbrown Chris Brown I believe in aliens!!
So, after his believe tweet he posts this video of L. Farrakhan. I admit that I haven't seen the video yet but I instantly thought of the posts on this thread and thought I'd share. Blessings.
http://worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video ... S3e5knu0R2 (http://worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhQF0tb3S3e5knu0R2)
Edit: L. Farrakhan led the million man march on Washington? I didn't know that. Hmmm..he talks of UFO's? According to him they do exist and very soon the world will know about this extraordinary reality?
Couple of things. About the Farrakhan video. He says point blank we're going to confront the alien presence SOON!
Secondly, Chris Brown's tweets are VERY significant. I think he may be an MJ insider. If you haven't seen this video of his, I think you will be surprised by all the MJ references throughout. And I can just FEEL the MJ energy. And note how cute he looks doing that Penguin move MJ introduced in TII.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mC2ixOAivA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mC2ixOAivA)
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N.O.I and Islam are two different things. N.O.I has their own rules. If I need to explain a little. In traditional Islam, Allah is one, who has no partners but N.O.I says Wallace D. Fard came as God incarnate (God is the black man). In traditional Islam, Muhammad is the final prophet of Islam, no one comes after him but N.O.I says Elijah Muhammad is the prophet to tell about incarnation of Fard. Traditional Islam says about race that all are equal regardless of color of skin, judged on behavior but N.O.I says that the original black race of man is superior. In traditional Islam it is believed that Allah created the universe, first humans were Adam and Eve but N.O.I believes that black scientists created the plan which repeats every 25,000 years. Traditional Islam says the Qur'an revealed to Muhammad from God through the Angel Gabriel but N.O.I says black scientists created and revealed the Bible and the Qur'an.
I'm a Muslim too and when I read N.O.I's rules, I see there's only one thing that can be in common with Muslims and that is they read Qur'an too BUT still they read the Qur'an they created themselves, not the one we read which was sent by God. Shortly I can say that I have no idea about why this group use the name of N.O.Islam because as far as I see they have nothing to do with Islam. And people shouldn't confuse this group with other Muslims as they have nothing in common with Muslims. They have their own rules and they believe that everything was created by black people even the Bible and Qur'an.
Purelove thank you for your explanation, I did not know the difference and now I do. blessings.
Your very welcome. I didn't know much about NOI but now I do. :)
do either of you know if noi has any connection with this group the muslim brotherhood? and if so what is that all about? curious from your point of veiw.
I've never heard about Muslim Brotherhood before, sorry I don't know hun.
EDIT: I read some about Muslim Brotherhood and they seem like they think that all of the solution in everything is Islam. I do not think that NOI has something to do with MB because NOI has their own rules and they do not believe the Qur'an that God sent but they believe the one they created themselves but MB is a harcore Allah and Our'an supporter.
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So, some of the posts above me are talking about NOI and Louis Farrakhan. I happened to see a tweet from Chris Brown tonight so I clicked on his name. This is the tweet
chrisbrown Chris Brown by MjbeLIEve_alive
Believe
It only says "Believe". Believe what? below it is this:
chrisbrown Chris Brown I believe in aliens!!
So, after his believe tweet he posts this video of L. Farrakhan. I admit that I haven't seen the video yet but I instantly thought of the posts on this thread and thought I'd share. Blessings.
http://worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video ... S3e5knu0R2 (http://worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhQF0tb3S3e5knu0R2)
Edit: L. Farrakhan led the million man march on Washington? I didn't know that. Hmmm..he talks of UFO's? According to him they do exist and very soon the world will know about this extraordinary reality?
Couple of things. About the Farrakhan video. He says point blank we're going to confront the alien presence SOON!
Secondly, Chris Brown's tweets are VERY significant. I think he may be an MJ insider. If you haven't seen this video of his, I think you will be surprised by all the MJ references throughout. And I can just FEEL the MJ energy. And note how cute he looks doing that Penguin move MJ introduced in TII.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mC2ixOAivA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mC2ixOAivA)
I think Chris Brown knows about the hoax. Did you guys know that Chris Brown and Akon made a duet ‘Take It Down Low’. We know what Akon thinks about the hoax, so probably he told to Chris too or maybe he already knew about it. :)
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Just a question on the NOI side of all of this. The statement that was made in This Is It...Meet the man you never knew. Could that statement refer to what we are seeing/hearing/reading now? The strong affiliation with the NOI, is this a side of MJ that we are just now learning about? The Man we never knew?
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TMZ sure does have some odd wording at times.....Sully. When was the last time you read that in a headline? It's just an old-fashioned word, in my humble opinion. So I started thinking about the word itself. To "sully" something is to stain, to mess etc. That's how it reads. But, also there are a couple of other things:
1) Sully is the nickname of the US Airways captain that landed in the Hudson River:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesley_Sullenberger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesley_Sullenberger)
not too much to go on...unless Michael is really not wanting to be made out to be a hero of some kind. Which I could understand...he's very humble.
2) Sully is a character in Monster's Inc:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsters,_Inc (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsters,_Inc).
wasn't there something with the kids about Monster's Inc? A note, an interview...???
I don't have any more time right now......the word Sully was just bugging me for some reason. TMZ's wording is very carefully chosen...or so it seems.
Blessings to all......
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I think Chris Brown knows about the hoax. Did you guys know that Chris Brown and Akon made a duet ‘Take It Down Low’. We know what Akon thinks about the hoax, so probably he told to Chris too or maybe he already knew about it. :)
He also sampled MJ's Human Nature in his new song, 'She Ain't You' ft. Justin Bieber:
[youtube:13mmgme4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYNga9gsXXc[/youtube:13mmgme4]
This was posted in another forum, but I thought I would mention it again for anyone who has not heard the song.[/b]