Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators
Latest News => TMZ.com => Michael Jackson News => TMZ Articles => Topic started by: ForstAMoon on March 16, 2011, 01:30:44 PM
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Conrad Murray: Michael Broke the Syringe! (http://www.tmz.com/2011/03/15/dr-conrad-murray-michael-jackson-manslaughter-case-trial-propofol-court-hearing-syringe-propofol/)
28 minutes ago by TMZ Staff
A huge development in the Dr. Conrad Murray trial involving the death of Michael Jackson ... the defense wants a first generation fingerprint of a broken syringe found in MJ's bedroom the day he died ... and our sources say they think it could prove that Michael killed himself.
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/02/24/0224-conrad-murray-tmz-ex.jpg)
Dr. Murray's lawyers were in court this AM. Among other things, they lasered in on a broken syringe that had rolled under Michael's deathbed. The defense wants a first generation fingerprint to determine who was handling it.
Defense sources tell us ... Dr. Murray insists he did not break the syringe. As TMZ first reported ... the defense believes MJ caused his own death by giving himself a massive overdose of Propofol while Murray was out of the room.
Defense sources say ... there were only two people in the room, and since Murray did not break the syringe, Michael must have handled it.
The defense is asking that the FBI deliver the first generation fingerprint.
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Conrad Murray: Michael Broke the Syringe….BS! :lol:
I actually think turning it around on Michael is a good defense because Michael did effectively “kill” himself – he’s dead as far as most of the world thinks and we know that’s simply not true. It'll anger a lot of people too, let's see if common sense will prevail.
And a mention of the FBI?!? “The defense is asking that the FBI deliver the first generation fingerprint.” The FBI is delivering it seems… Another prediction for TS – very interesting to say the least! I just realized that FBI is an anagram for fib (lie).
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Now, wouldnt it be interesting if they tested the syringe and found a fingerprint that did not belong to Michael or Murray.....
Even if Michaels fingerprints are found on the syringe, there are wholes in Murrays defence. Maybe Murray planted the evidence AFTER Michael had died. (if he died!) Its pretty easy to wrap a dead mans fingers around a syringe and then roll it under the bed.
Murray had time to do this. There are discrepencies in the time line and the bodyguard has already described how Murray was clearing up evidence.
But i have a feeling that these tests will reveal an outcome that they didnt expect...
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Andrea, that's what I was thinking. Never heard FBI mentioned before aside from way back with the 333 pages. Another possible link to TS being authentic. This all such a joke, when people came and went from the mansion after June 25, contaminating evidence, and of course all the withholding of evidence and lies already from Murray. And if MJ's fingerprint is on the syringe, it proves he's a mastermind, that's all. :mrgreen:
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And if MJ's fingerprint is on the syringe, it proves he's a mastermind, that's all. :mrgreen:
I thought that too, that he could've touched the alleged syringe just to mess about!
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The reason the FBI are involved is because they have the expertise in fingerprinting technology.
I dont think it means anything more than that...... who else they going to ask to test the syringe for prints??? :?
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What is a 'first generation fingerprint'?
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Conrad Murray: Michael Broke the Syringe….BS! :lol:
I actually think turning it around on Michael is a good defense because Michael did effectively “kill” himself – he’s dead as far as most of the world thinks and we know that’s simply not true. It'll anger a lot of people too, let's see if common sense will prevail.
And a mention of the FBI?!? “The defense is asking that the FBI deliver the first generation fingerprint.” The FBI is delivering it seems… Another prediction for TS – very interesting to say the least! I just realized that FBI is an anagram for fib (lie).
Great deductions Sherlock!!!
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What is a 'first generation fingerprint'?
I dont know. Ive never heard this expression before, and if you put it in google nothing of interest comes up... in fact, the TMZ article is high on the hit list. :?
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OH!! The first generation fingerprint is an old system. They now have newer versions/generations. And by asking the FBI for the first gen fingerprints, they are asking for Michael's OLD prints. From the time of the first gen. testing which from all I read is about 2004.
Now, why would they be comparing his OLD prints?
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The reason the FBI are involved is because they have the expertise in fingerprinting technology.
I dont think it means anything more than that...... who else they going to ask to test the syringe for prints??? :?
You always make good sense, MP. And, it is interesting that our focus on the FBI in forum discussions directed by TS is also mentioned today in TMZ. What a wonderful coinkadink! ;)
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OH!! The first generation fingerprint is an old system. They now have newer versions/generations. And by asking the FBI for the first gen fingerprints, they are asking for Michael's OLD prints. From the time of the first gen. testing which from all I read is about 2004.
Now, why would they be comparing his OLD prints?
Oh, also, that's why ask the FBI. They have those prints on file. But, what's weird is also do the local PD from booking him.
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What is a 'first generation fingerprint'?
I dont know. Ive never heard this expression before, and if you put it in google nothing of interest comes up... in fact, the TMZ article is high on the hit list. :?
I googled it too and didn't really find anything but I would think that it's the "initial" fingerprints on an object. Like if other people touched it afterwards, the first generation ones would be underneath the other prints.
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Conrad Murray: Michael Broke the Syringe….BS! :lol:
I actually think turning it around on Michael is a good defense because Michael did effectively “kill” himself – he’s dead as far as most of the world thinks and we know that’s simply not true. It'll anger a lot of people too, let's see if common sense will prevail.
And a mention of the FBI?!? “The defense is asking that the FBI deliver the first generation fingerprint.” The FBI is delivering it seems… Another prediction for TS – very interesting to say the least! I just realized that FBI is an anagram for fib (lie).
Great deductions Sherlock!!!
Ditto!
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Now, wouldnt it be interesting if they tested the syringe and found a fingerprint that did not belong to Michael or Murray.....
Even if Michaels fingerprints are found on the syringe, there are wholes in Murrays defence. Maybe Murray planted the evidence AFTER Michael had died. (if he died!) Its pretty easy to wrap a dead mans fingers around a syringe and then roll it under the bed.
Murray had time to do this. There are discrepencies in the time line and the bodyguard has already described how Murray was clearing up evidence.
But i have a feeling that these tests will reveal an outcome that they didnt expect...
[/b]
:o hmmmmm. this is interesting.
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OH!! The first generation fingerprint is an old system. They now have newer versions/generations. And by asking the FBI for the first gen fingerprints, they are asking for Michael's OLD prints. From the time of the first gen. testing which from all I read is about 2004.
Now, why would they be comparing his OLD prints?
Are you sure about that? Fingerprints dont change with time. Your prints are your prints for life. Why would it matter when the prints were taken from the subject?
Do you have a link for this explanation? Ive tried searching and have come up with a blank.
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OH!! The first generation fingerprint is an old system. They now have newer versions/generations. And by asking the FBI for the first gen fingerprints, they are asking for Michael's OLD prints. From the time of the first gen. testing which from all I read is about 2004.
Now, why would they be comparing his OLD prints?
Are you sure about that? Fingerprints dont change with time. Your prints are your prints for life. Why would it matter when the prints were taken from the subject?
Do you have a link for this explanation? Ive tried searching and have come up with a blank.
I'm not saying they change. I'm saying they want the FBI to turn over their first gen. fingerprints. The first gen. ones were about 2004 when they used that system. So it means, why do they want THOSE ones? Why not more recent ones, if there are any, or ones from where he was booked into jail? What is the significance of the old FBI prints when ALL prints are the same.???
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OH!! The first generation fingerprint is an old system. They now have newer versions/generations. And by asking the FBI for the first gen fingerprints, they are asking for Michael's OLD prints. From the time of the first gen. testing which from all I read is about 2004.
Now, why would they be comparing his OLD prints?
Do I understand correctly that you mean it's a method of taking fingerprints, that has been superceded by newer methods?
If so, as you say, why specify 'first generation fingerprints'? Why wouldn't they just request fingerprints, full stop?
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I'm not saying they change. I'm saying they want the FBI to turn over their first gen. fingerprints. The first gen. ones were about 2004 when they used that system. So it means, why do they want THOSE ones? Why not more recent ones, if there are any, or ones from where he was booked into jail? What is the significance of the old FBI prints when ALL prints are the same.???
Ok. Im understanding what you are saying a bit more now. You are saying that the defense are asking for the FBI to give them the fingerprint profile of Michael so they can compare it to the one found on the syringe.
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I'm not saying they change. I'm saying they want the FBI to turn over their first gen. fingerprints. The first gen. ones were about 2004 when they used that system. So it means, why do they want THOSE ones? Why not more recent ones, if there are any, or ones from where he was booked into jail? What is the significance of the old FBI prints when ALL prints are the same.???
Ok. Im understanding what you are saying a bit more now. You are saying that the defense are asking for the FBI to give them the fingerprint profile of Michael so they can compare it to the one found on the syringe.
Yes, but the clue here is...first generation fingerprint. Those are old ones.
Maybe there are no Michael prints since 2004, but then why specifically ask for ones from the first gen ones if they simply are the only ones? And why ask specifically for the FBI for those ones?
Maybe...maybe because there is new technology since then and they can say those ones were not accurate...Just thinking and guessing...
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I really think first generation fingerprints are the first ones on an object. I said it above, so maybe no one else agrees?
Say I take something fresh out of a package and touch it. That object has my fingerprints on it. Then someone else touches, and someone else and so on. The object later gets dusted for fingerprints. Mine would be the first generation fingerprints because I touched the object first, the other prints may be layered over top of mine and they're able to determine that.
This is my own head making sense of it so it might not be the case. But it makes sense to me.
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I really think first generation fingerprints are the first ones on an object. I said it above, so maybe no one else agrees?
Say I take something fresh out of a package and touch it. That object has my fingerprints on it. Then someone else touches, and someone else and so on. The object later gets dusted for fingerprints. Mine would be the first generation fingerprints because I touched the object first, the other prints may be layered over top of mine and they're able to determine that.
This is my own head making sense of it so it might not be the case. But it makes sense to me.
You could be correct, but my understanding is that the fingerprints would get smeared and not overlayed?
What we need is a fingerprint expert..... :P Hmmmm.....
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I'm not saying they change. I'm saying they want the FBI to turn over their first gen. fingerprints. The first gen. ones were about 2004 when they used that system. So it means, why do they want THOSE ones? Why not more recent ones, if there are any, or ones from where he was booked into jail? What is the significance of the old FBI prints when ALL prints are the same.???
Ok. Im understanding what you are saying a bit more now. You are saying that the defense are asking for the FBI to give them the fingerprint profile of Michael so they can compare it to the one found on the syringe.
No, that can't be right Miss.Peppers, because the article says: "the defense wants a first generation fingerprint of a broken syringe found in MJ's bedroom the day he died"
Does that mean they want to use an old method of fingerprinting on this 21 month old syringe and drag the FBI in to do it!!! :?
Andrea, your explanation makes sense too!
Yes, we need an expert!
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yeah right, they could be smeared on the syringe...but I think the clues on tmz are
they want the old prints and want them from the fbi
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No, that can't be right Miss.Peppers, because the article says: "the defense wants a first generation fingerprint of a broken syringe found in MJ's bedroom the day he died"
Does that mean they want to use an old method of fingerprinting on this 21 month old syringe and drag the FBI in to do it!!! :?
CURLS... you are right. So they cant mean that. What the heck do they mean???
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If this is so important, why the defense did not ask for this test in the syringe 20 months ago?
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thanks to whomever asked what a first generation print is. good question. idk the answer and i'm intrigued. lots of answers/ideas mentioned here seem plausible including who touched it first if that's possible to determine. but if the person framing someone had on gloves, we'd never know the real answer. @navibl: LAYERING seems to be an optimal word for lots of things related to this hoax including the ambo pic. great observations you make, imho.
I want to read this article when I have time about the finding of prints and JFK asassination: http://www.bing.com/search?q=first+generation+fingerprints&pc=HPNTDF&src=IE-SearchBox&first=11&FORM=PORE
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Really, I've been looking all over the net and only TMZ is reporting the first generation fbi thing!! The other news agencies do not say that. Who knows with tmz, sometimes they have it sometimes they don't.
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Harvey makes it sound like first gen fingerprint is something to do now..
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seriously, what i'm getting from this is that the syringe was already fingerprinted by the FBI and the defence is now requesting those results.
So....
why would the FBI have taken prints from that syringe ? (first time i hear of their involvement regarding june 25)
why does defense only now bring up this broken syringe under the bed?( i've never heard of this, was it mentioned at all at any time??) :geek:
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So....
why would the FBI have taken prints from that syringe ? (first time i hear of their involvement regarding june 25)
I dont understand why people keep asking this.
Who else would analyse the prints? Who else has the USA fingerprint database to compare the results with? The FBI is the government agency with the skills and the data to do this.
Who else do you think would be able to perform this task? Seriously... im asking the question as to who else do you think has this capability? Im confused as to why people are surprised that the FBI are the ones who analyse and store fingerprints in the USA.
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Sorry, but how is it possible to break a syringe??
I thought you can break a needle... but syringe? :roll:
(http://www.mediray.com/Images/Products/Syringe_2.jpg)
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Wouldn't they have taken his prints at autopsy?
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So....
why would the FBI have taken prints from that syringe ? (first time i hear of their involvement regarding june 25)
I dont understand why people keep asking this.
Who else would analyse the prints? Who else has the USA fingerprint database to compare the results with? The FBI is the government agency with the skills and the data to do this.
Who else do you think would be able to perform this task? Seriously... im asking the question as to who else do you think has this capability? Im confused as to why people are surprised that the FBI are the ones who analyse and store fingerprints in the USA.
Well tbh i was thinking the LAPD would have taken the prints and that any police department in the USA has access to the print database so they can run comparisson prints themselves when nescesary. like i said i'm understanding here that the FBI was brought in early on and has those prints, and not the LAPD. Which to me would be strange because i was'nt aware that the FBI was involved in taking prints from a scene that was'nt even considered a homicide till two months later.
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Another point which haw just dawned on me:
Murray and Michael were NOT the only two people in that room.
Alvarez the bodyguard has already stated he was in the room and helped to clear some of the medical stuff away. Then you have Prince and (maybe) Paris entering the room at one point. Then the paramedics entered.
Then LaToya supposedly came into house and cleared a load of stuff away in big vans...
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Well tbh i was thinking the LAPD would have taken the prints and that any police department in the USA has access to the print database so they can run comparisson prints themselves when nescesary. like i said i'm understanding here that the FBI was brought in early on and has those prints, and not the LAPD. Which to me would be strange because i was'nt aware that the FBI was involved in taking prints from a scene that was'nt even considered a homicide till two months later.
The LAPD may have taken the prints.. but they are centrally stored by the FBI to make a national database.
The article doesnt say the FBI took the prints... it says that they have the prints. This is because they have the national database.
Of course any police force in the USA would be able to run comparisons of prints. But its the defence asking for them... not the LAPD. x
Im sure there is some beurocratic reason and red tape for this.
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I would imagine a first generation fingerprint would be one that was lifted first from the syringe. If you tried to lift them from the syringe again the fingerprint would be fainter and would not show as much detail thus being harder to absolutely identify the person. I could be wrong though.
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The defense wants a first generation fingerprint to determine who was handling it.
The defense is asking that the FBI deliver the first generation fingerprint.
The FBI Fingerprint Image Compression Specification
The first-generation fingerprint image encoder. We now outline the details of the first FBI-approved WSQ fingerprint image encoder.
(http://resources.metapress.com/pdf-preview.axd?code=w2715r580264p401&size=smaller)
http://www.springerlink.com/content/w2715r580264p401/
Fingerprint Image Compression and the Wavelet Scalar Quantization Specification
Due to the large number and size of fingerprint images, data compression has to be applied to reduce the storage and communication bandwidth requirements of those images. In response to this need, the FBI developed a fingerprint compression specification, called the wavelet scalar quantization (WSQ). As the name suggests, the specification is based on wavelet compression. In this chapter, we review the WSQ specification and discuss its most important theoretical and practical underpinnings. In particular, we present the way wavelet compression generally works and address the choice of the wavelet, the structure of the subbands, the different quantizations of the various subbands, and the entropy coding of the quantized data. The performance of the WSQ is addressed as well.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/u6546078v8326210/
Fingerprints Go Digital
The compression target for this first-generation encoder is around 0.75 bits/pixel, which corresponds to about 15:1 compression on average fingerprint images. Current effort is centered on implementing a compliance-testing program at the National Institute of Standards and Technology for certifying commercial implementations of the standard. Testing and certification is essential to ensure interchangeability of data between different implementations and to maintain consistently high image quality. In the future, we also expect digitization of the fingerprint database to facilitate advances in automated fingerprint classification. This is an area of research that has been greatly handicapped in the past by the use of paper-based fingerprint records.
http://www.ams.org/notices/199511/brislawn.pdf
The defense is asking that the FBI use this digital fingerprint technology to compare Michael Jackson's fingerprints (which are on file) to any fingerprints that may be present on the broken syringe.
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I wonder how does the broken syringe looks like.
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Okay, I knew all this, but I'm still wondering what is the difference in the FIRST generation fingerprinting and SECOND generation fingerprinting?
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Maybe Michael broke the syringe because he didn't want the damn stuff in the first place lol -- The headline says Michael broke the syringe....think about it.
Is this story line making a slight detour? 8-)
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If this is so important, why the defense did not ask for this test in the syringe 20 months ago?
Hello Ana Marcia!!!
Good point,why now and not then when things were fresh :? .
But I have something that some of you forget.
Michael Jackson Death Syringe to be Auctioned
Atlanta, GA 3.25.2010 01:28 GMT (TransWorldNews)
The syringe that delivered the fatal dose of propofol to
Michael Jackson is reportedly going up for auction. A source tells The
Telegraph that the syringe may be auctioned on June 25, the first anniversary of
the death of Jackson, and could sell for as much as $5 million.
An insider claims the Jackson family are “furious and
distressed” that the syringe may be sold.
Jackson died in his Los Angeles home of an overdose of
propofol, a powerful anesthetic. His doctor, Conrad Murray, has been charged
with involuntary manslaughter.
Now what was all about the auction, lol and what happened in the end,does someone here knows? Wasn't the serynge a evidence of crime :roll: .What circus is this???? 8-)
LOVE
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Okay, I knew all this, but I'm still wondering what is the difference in the FIRST generation fingerprinting and SECOND generation fingerprinting?
Digital Fingerprint Technology is a part of bio-metrics. As technology advances digital fingerprints are being used as one of the security measures.
Biometrics
Biometrics is a high tech word for an old concept: how they go about recognizing one another. Biometric authentication uses automated methods based on physical characteristics or behavioral traits for human recognition. Examples of biometrics include iris and retina scanning, digitized fingerprints, hand geometry and speaker recognition. Biometric authentication offers advantages over current security practices. Unlike keys and tokens, biometrics is never lost or stolen. Unlike passwords and PINs, biometrics cannot be forgotten. Because of their security, speed, efficiency and convenience, biometric authentication systems might soon become the standard for access control.
http://jobfunctions.bnet.com/abstract.aspx?docid=125424
Federal Programs
http://www.biometrics.gov/referenceroom/federalprograms.aspx
Second Generation Fingerprinting would be the next accepted technological advancement in this area. At this time, it seems that this is technology is continuously developing. At the moment this "second generation fingerprinting" etc. has to do with the readers being used by companies and not necessarily the actual fingerprinting technique itself.
Biometric Technology
Newer biometric technology helps overcome some of these problems. For example, first-generation equipment relied on CCD cameras, and illuminating fingerprints with laser light. Unfortunately, this technology was prone to spoofing, especially since an image of the fingerprint was left on the scanner. Second-generation capacitive devices improved accuracy and were more difficult to spoof, but they sometimes suffered errors from static discharge. (Dealing with such errors falls to the biometric management software.) The very latest, third-generation fingerprint scanning technology is based on a radio-frequency capturing technique, which "allows the sensor to reconstruct the image of the structure of the skin layers underneath the skin surface," says Cohen, with much-improved accuracy.
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Maybe the syringe had to be broken in order for it to be auctioned lol... so no one would hurt themselves... and you are quite right it is a circus lol and they had to be Michael's prints otherwise the needle/syringe would not be worth much lol.
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Okay, I knew all this, but I'm still wondering what is the difference in the FIRST generation fingerprinting and SECOND generation fingerprinting?
Digital Fingerprint Technology is a part of bio-metrics. As technology advances digital fingerprints are being used as one of the security measures.
Biometrics
Biometrics is a high tech word for an old concept: how they go about recognizing one another. Biometric authentication uses automated methods based on physical characteristics or behavioral traits for human recognition. Examples of biometrics include iris and retina scanning, digitized fingerprints, hand geometry and speaker recognition. Biometric authentication offers advantages over current security practices. Unlike keys and tokens, biometrics is never lost or stolen. Unlike passwords and PINs, biometrics cannot be forgotten. Because of their security, speed, efficiency and convenience, biometric authentication systems might soon become the standard for access control.
http://jobfunctions.bnet.com/abstract.aspx?docid=125424
Federal Programs
http://www.biometrics.gov/referenceroom/federalprograms.aspx
Second Generation Fingerprinting would be the next accepted technological advancement in this area. At this time, it seems that this is technology is continuously developing. At the moment this "second generation fingerprinting" etc. has to do with the readers being used by companies and not necessarily the actual fingerprinting technique itself.
Biometric Technology
Newer biometric technology helps overcome some of these problems. For example, first-generation equipment relied on CCD cameras, and illuminating fingerprints with laser light. Unfortunately, this technology was prone to spoofing, especially since an image of the fingerprint was left on the scanner. Second-generation capacitive devices improved accuracy and were more difficult to spoof, but they sometimes suffered errors from static discharge. (Dealing with such errors falls to the biometric management software.) The very latest, third-generation fingerprint scanning technology is based on a radio-frequency capturing technique, which "allows the sensor to reconstruct the image of the structure of the skin layers underneath the skin surface," says Cohen, with much-improved accuracy.
Okay, gotcha! Thanks, now I can quit looking all over for the info...red face, blood pressure up..ugh.
Thanks for the info.
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Among other things, they lasered in on a broken syringe that had rolled under Michael's deathbed. The defense wants a first generation fingerprint to determine who was handling it.
Defense sources tell us ... Dr. Murray insists he did not break the syringe. As TMZ first reported ... the defense believes MJ caused his own death by giving himself a massive overdose of Propofol while Murray was out of the room.
Defense sources say ... there were only two people in the room, and since Murray did not break the syringe, Michael must have handled it.
Lasered in on is a slang term. It is not an expression that is used frequently when suggesting something has been focused on. TMZ could have just used the word FOCUSED so why use LASERED? (lasered isn't actually a real word found in the dictionary)
Laser in on (verb) http://onlineslangdictionary.com/definition+of/lasered+in+on
to focus intensely on.
Laser http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser
A laser is a device that emits light (electromagnetic radiation) through a process of optical amplification based on the stimulated emission of photons. The term "laser" originated as an acronym for Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation.
The Broken Syringe
It has been reported repeatedly that a broken syringe was found but even in the autopsy report the actual damage to the syringe has not been explained.
(http://www.health.com/health/static/hw/media/medical/hw/h9991451_001.jpg)
Is it the needle which is broken? If so, there is no report of the broken portion being found embedded in Michael Jackson.
Is it the barrel that is broken? If so, then it may be difficult to obtain fingerprints.
Was it in pieces? Did they find all the parts?
It is not enough information to just to say that a broken needle was found.
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Am I missing something? Who found this syringe? Police? Paramedics? LaToya? Alverez? Murray?
Just curious.........
Blessings
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suppose any of this could lead to the discovery of the dead person not being michael? :?
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Am I missing something? Who found this syringe? Police? Paramedics? LaToya? Alverez? Murray?
Just curious.........
Blessings
Investigator Elissa J. Fleak found the syringe and it is listed in the autopsy report on page 5. This is a list of items she found on a second visit to the scene at Carolwood Drive on 6/29/2009. Since this syringe was found on the second visit, to a scene which was not secured, the question arises that no matter what is found in or on this syringe will it be admissible in court anyway?
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can someone explain how a broken syringe is going to ingect anything :?
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Am I missing something? Who found this syringe? Police? Paramedics? LaToya? Alverez? Murray?
Just curious.........
Blessings
Investigator Elissa J. Fleak found the syringe and it is listed in the autopsy report on page 5. This is a list of items she found on a second visit to the scene at Carolwood Drive on 6/29/2009. Since this syringe was found on the second visit, to a scene which was not secured, the question arises that no matter what is found in or on this syringe will it be admissible in court anyway?
Thank you Number 7 ...... I missed that info. I probably read it once-upon-a-time....that name sounds familiar.
Blessings!
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can someone explain how a broken syringe is going to ingect anything :?
WE should be on the same frequency :lol: I asked myself the same question
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can someone explain how a broken syringe is going to ingect anything :?
WE should be on the same frequency :lol: I asked myself the same question
The implication is that the syringe was broken AFTER it was used to inject propofol.
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can someone explain how a broken syringe is going to ingect anything :?
WE should be on the same frequency :lol: I asked myself the same question
The implication is that the syringe was broken AFTER it was used to inject propofol.
And who broke it? the user couldn´t because he would have been K.O by the propofol intake.
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Michael Jackson Death Syringe to be Auctioned
Atlanta, GA 3.25.2010 01:28 GMT (TransWorldNews)
The syringe that delivered the fatal dose of propofol to
Michael Jackson is reportedly going up for auction. A source tells The
Telegraph that the syringe may be auctioned on June 25, the first anniversary of
the death of Jackson, and could sell for as much as $5 million.
Now what was all about the auction, lol and what happened in the end,does someone here knows? Wasn't the serynge a evidence of crime :roll: .What circus is this???? 8-)
LOVE
The syringe could not go to auction, it is suppose to be in LAPD evidence room, in safe place. Jeeze, I think it is not a circus, just media sometimes is not able to obtain correct and full information, they make things up. That's what happening.
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Dr. Murray said a few weeks ago that Michael Jackson drank the propofol and died. Now he is saying that Michael Jackson injected the propofol to himself and died. More lies. What's next? Michael Jackson showered himself with propofol and died?
Posted at 11:19 AM on Mar 16, 2011 by Marie
This is the opinion that someone public TMZ :lol: :lol:
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IMO the term first generation fingerprint is referring to the method/style in which the fingerprints were taken. For example the method used before would be to roll black ink onto a pad and then roll the suspects fingers one at a time onto the ink and then onto a paper card. Sometimes the palm would also be rolled onto the ink and then onto the card. Anyone who has been arrested during the time of this method would know this old school method. The new generation is done by placing your fingers onto a pad and a laser would record the fingerprint image digitally right into the system data base.
The FBI holds the old versions of fingerprints (those on a card) and also holds the database for fingerprints digitally in a sytem called Integrated Automated Fingerprint Identification System, or IAFIS. I believe the article is saying that the defense wants the prints from the card (old way) for comparison to the prints lifted from the syringe. The article doesn't specify whose fingerprints they are requesting but it implies it to be from Michael. I also think it is referring to Michael's prints from 1993 when he was under investigation for child ... The FBI was requested to help in that investigation and because this is the time frame in the FBI files that were released. 8-)
The defense is asking that the FBI deliver the first generation fingerprint.
United States databases and compression
In the United States, the FBI manages a fingerprint identification system and database called the Integrated Automated Fingerprint Identification System, or IAFIS, which currently holds the fingerprints and criminal records of over 51 million criminal record subjects and over 1.5 million civil (non-criminal) fingerprint records. US Visit currently holds a repository of the fingerprints of over 50 million people, primarily in the form of two-finger records. In 2008, US Visit hoped to have changed over to a system recording FBI-standard ten-print records.
Most American law enforcement agencies use Wavelet Scalar Quantization (WSQ), a wavelet-based system for efficient storage of compressed fingerprint images at 500 pixels per inch (ppi). WSQ was developed by the FBI, the Los Alamos National Lab, and the National Institute for Standards and Technology (NIST). For fingerprints recorded at 1000 ppi spatial resolution, law enforcement (including the FBI) uses JPEG 2000 instead of WSQ.
http://www.onin.com/fp/fphistory.html (http://www.onin.com/fp/fphistory.html)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fingerprinting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fingerprinting)
Fingerprints used for identification
Fingerprint identification, known as dactyloscopy, or hand print identification, is the process of comparing two instances of friction ridge skin impressions (see Minutiae), from human fingers, the palm of the hand or even toes, to determine whether these impressions could have come from the same individual. The flexibility of friction ridge skin means that no two finger or palm prints are ever exactly alike in every detail; even two impressions recorded immediately after each other from the same hand. Fingerprint identification, also referred to as individualization, involves an expert, or an expert computer system operating under threshold scoring rules, determining whether two friction ridge impressions are likely to have originated from the same finger or palm (or toe or sole).
An intentional recording of friction ridges is usually made with black printer's ink rolled across a contrasting white background, typically a white card. Friction ridges can also be recorded digitally using a technique called Live Scan. A "latent print" is the chance recording of friction ridges deposited on the surface of an object or a wall. Latent prints are invisible to the naked eye, whereas "patent prints" or "plastic prints" are viewable with the un-aided eye. Latent prints are often fragmentary and require chemical methods, powder, or alternative light sources in order to be made clear. Sometimes an ordinary bright flashlight will make a latent print visible.
When friction ridges come into contact with a surface that will take a print, material that is on the friction ridges such as perspiration, oil, grease, ink or blood, will be transferred to the surface. Factors which affect the quality of friction ridge impressions are numerous. Pliability of the skin, deposition pressure, slippage, the material from which the surface is made, the roughness of the surface and the substance deposited are just some of the various factors which can cause a latent print to appear differently from any known recording of the same friction ridges. Indeed, the conditions surrounding every instance of friction ridge deposition are unique and never duplicated. For these reasons, fingerprint examiners are required to undergo extensive training.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_Scan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_Scan)
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/finger ... s/ngi/ngi2 (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/fingerprints_biometrics/ngi/ngi2)
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IMO the term first generation fingerprint is referring to the method/style in which the fingerprints were taken. For example the method used before would be to roll black ink onto a pad and then roll the suspects fingers one at a time onto the ink and then onto a paper card. Sometimes the palm would also be rolled onto the ink and then onto the card. Anyone who has been arrested during the time of this method would know this old school method. The new generation is done by placing your fingers onto a pad and a laser would record the fingerprint image digitally right into the system data base.
The FBI holds the old versions of fingerprints (those on a card) and also holds the database for fingerprints digitally in a sytem called Integrated Automated Fingerprint Identification System, or IAFIS. I believe the article is saying that the defense wants the prints from the card (old way) for comparison to the prints lifted from the syringe. The article doesn't specify whose fingerprints they are requesting but it implies it to be from Michael. I also think it is referring to Michael's prints from 1993 when he was under investigation for child ... The FBI was requested to help in that investigation and because this is the time frame in the FBI files that were released. 8-)
The defense is asking that the FBI deliver the first generation fingerprint.
United States databases and compression
In the United States, the FBI manages a fingerprint identification system and database called the Integrated Automated Fingerprint Identification System, or IAFIS, which currently holds the fingerprints and criminal records of over 51 million criminal record subjects and over 1.5 million civil (non-criminal) fingerprint records. US Visit currently holds a repository of the fingerprints of over 50 million people, primarily in the form of two-finger records. In 2008, US Visit hoped to have changed over to a system recording FBI-standard ten-print records.
Most American law enforcement agencies use Wavelet Scalar Quantization (WSQ), a wavelet-based system for efficient storage of compressed fingerprint images at 500 pixels per inch (ppi). WSQ was developed by the FBI, the Los Alamos National Lab, and the National Institute for Standards and Technology (NIST). For fingerprints recorded at 1000 ppi spatial resolution, law enforcement (including the FBI) uses JPEG 2000 instead of WSQ.
http://www.onin.com/fp/fphistory.html (http://www.onin.com/fp/fphistory.html)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fingerprinting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fingerprinting)
Fingerprints used for identification
Fingerprint identification, known as dactyloscopy, or hand print identification, is the process of comparing two instances of friction ridge skin impressions (see Minutiae), from human fingers, the palm of the hand or even toes, to determine whether these impressions could have come from the same individual. The flexibility of friction ridge skin means that no two finger or palm prints are ever exactly alike in every detail; even two impressions recorded immediately after each other from the same hand. Fingerprint identification, also referred to as individualization, involves an expert, or an expert computer system operating under threshold scoring rules, determining whether two friction ridge impressions are likely to have originated from the same finger or palm (or toe or sole).
An intentional recording of friction ridges is usually made with black printer's ink rolled across a contrasting white background, typically a white card. Friction ridges can also be recorded digitally using a technique called Live Scan. A "latent print" is the chance recording of friction ridges deposited on the surface of an object or a wall. Latent prints are invisible to the naked eye, whereas "patent prints" or "plastic prints" are viewable with the un-aided eye. Latent prints are often fragmentary and require chemical methods, powder, or alternative light sources in order to be made clear. Sometimes an ordinary bright flashlight will make a latent print visible.
When friction ridges come into contact with a surface that will take a print, material that is on the friction ridges such as perspiration, oil, grease, ink or blood, will be transferred to the surface. Factors which affect the quality of friction ridge impressions are numerous. Pliability of the skin, deposition pressure, slippage, the material from which the surface is made, the roughness of the surface and the substance deposited are just some of the various factors which can cause a latent print to appear differently from any known recording of the same friction ridges. Indeed, the conditions surrounding every instance of friction ridge deposition are unique and never duplicated. For these reasons, fingerprint examiners are required to undergo extensive training.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_Scan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_Scan)
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/finger ... s/ngi/ngi2 (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/fingerprints_biometrics/ngi/ngi2)
Great job explaining this!!! I too went to the same Wikipedia page for this same info. ;))
I had had the second gen. printing done for 3 different clearances to foster children. I didn't know they are not housed at the FBI ! Anyhow...makes sense right? But, as to why they want the old verson? Guess we'll see.
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can someone explain how a broken syringe is going to ingect anything :?
WE should be on the same frequency :lol: I asked myself the same question
The implication is that the syringe was broken AFTER it was used to inject propofol.
And who broke it? the user couldn´t because he would have been K.O by the propofol intake.
wasn't the discription of how it was broken that the plunger was pulled out? i am not positive on that, it is just what i think i remember reading somewhere.
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Conrad Murray: Michael Broke the Syringe….BS! :lol:
I actually think turning it around on Michael is a good defense because Michael did effectively “kill” himself – he’s dead as far as most of the world thinks and we know that’s simply not true. It'll anger a lot of people too, let's see if common sense will prevail.
And a mention of the FBI?!? “The defense is asking that the FBI deliver the first generation fingerprint.” The FBI is delivering it seems… Another prediction for TS – very interesting to say the least! I just realized that FBI is an anagram for fib (lie).
Great deductions Sherlock!!!
Ditto!
Totally agree with you guys. :D The FBI mention can not be a coincidence just after TS wrote about it. And how great to see that they started arranging everything to show Murray is innocent. Noone is going to be surprised when he will be found not guilty at the end of the trial. :)
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Sorry, but how is it possible to break a syringe??
I thought you can break a needle... but syringe? :roll:
(http://www.mediray.com/Images/Products/Syringe_2.jpg)
maybe if the syringe looks like this one made from glass..
(http://www.cirurgicalucena.com.br/lojas/00005031/prod/02065g.JPG)
but..idk if the actual medicine professionals still using this types of syringe :?
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Sorry, but how is it possible to break a syringe??
I thought you can break a needle... but syringe? :roll:
(http://www.mediray.com/Images/Products/Syringe_2.jpg)
maybe if the syringe looks like this one made from glass..
(http://www.cirurgicalucena.com.br/lojas/00005031/prod/02065g.JPG)
but..idk if the actual medicine professionals still using this types of syringe :?
Still it would be hard to break a syringe even it is glass. You need an extra effort to break it. As far as I remember those syringes, their glass is not so thin to be broken easily. I haven't also seen those glass syringes were used for ages.
P.S: mjaliveomg, the baby giraffe picture is so adorable. I had to say it. :D
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Sorry, but how is it possible to break a syringe??
I thought you can break a needle... but syringe? :roll:
(http://www.mediray.com/Images/Products/Syringe_2.jpg)
maybe if the syringe looks like this one made from glass..
(http://www.cirurgicalucena.com.br/lojas/00005031/prod/02065g.JPG)
but..idk if the actual medicine professionals still using this types of syringe :?
Still it would be hard to break a syringe even it is glass. You need an extra effort to break it. As far as I remember those syringes, their glass is not so thin to be broken easily. I haven't also seen those glass syringes were used for ages.
P.S: mjaliveomg, the baby giraffe picture is so adorable. I had to say it. :D
its true...my mom works with this things..and i already saw one..its very resistant and impossible to break with simple hands.
ty PureLove S2 she's lovely
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Well I have a theory, it could very well be that Michael took the syringe broke it so it would be more plausible that hoax will look real. This will be the way Conrad Murray would be acquitted from the murder of MJ. If Mj faked his death, Murray shouldn't go to jail, so this is the evidence that will acquit Murray. Once acquitted Michael will come back.
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Also in the autopsy report it states that there is no way Michael could have self-administered so what lawyer is going to use what defense/rebuttal hmm going to be an interesting trial lol
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Michael must have handled it.
Michael handled it alright.. :lol: :lol: :lol:
I work as a Pathology collector and our syringes are made of plastic. Glass is way outdated, and too dangerous.
Another reason that the syringe could be broken, is if someone stepped on it...someone heavy !!!!
Plastic syringes have side handles and would not roll anywhere............. especially on carpet !!!!!!!!
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Conrad Murray: Michael Broke the Syringe! (http://www.tmz.com/2011/03/15/dr-conrad-murray-michael-jackson-manslaughter-case-trial-propofol-court-hearing-syringe-propofol/)
28 minutes ago by TMZ Staff
Among other things, they lasered in on a broken syringe that had rolled under Michael's deathbed.
Rolled under this bed - potentially?
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_rSA9SVWw60w/SnbV0WxNTbI/AAAAAAAAHbI/RbJYBRJRMWY/s400/Michael-Jackson-Deathbed-Photo1.JPG)
:lol:
Oh we are being sent on big circles again. Learning the spin move. :lol:
Will we ever leave the manege?
Is it fun, Harvey?
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Conrad Murray: Michael Broke the Syringe! (http://www.tmz.com/2011/03/15/dr-conrad-murray-michael-jackson-manslaughter-case-trial-propofol-court-hearing-syringe-propofol/)
28 minutes ago by TMZ Staff
Among other things, they lasered in on a broken syringe that had rolled under Michael's deathbed.
Rolled under this bed - potentially?
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_rSA9SVWw60w/SnbV0WxNTbI/AAAAAAAAHbI/RbJYBRJRMWY/s400/Michael-Jackson-Deathbed-Photo1.JPG)
:lol:
Oh we are being sent on big circles again. Learning the spin move. :lol:
Will we ever leave the manege?
Is it fun, Harvey?
OMGosh...Grace you're great!
That is total garbage....his mattress was on the floor. I read that a number of stars are now doing that because of fear of someone hiding/recording etc........
totally forgot it!
Thank you :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Conrad Murray: Michael Broke the Syringe! (http://www.tmz.com/2011/03/15/dr-conrad-murray-michael-jackson-manslaughter-case-trial-propofol-court-hearing-syringe-propofol/)
28 minutes ago by TMZ Staff
Among other things, they lasered in on a broken syringe that had rolled under Michael's deathbed.
Rolled under this bed - potentially?
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_rSA9SVWw60w/SnbV0WxNTbI/AAAAAAAAHbI/RbJYBRJRMWY/s400/Michael-Jackson-Deathbed-Photo1.JPG)
:lol:
Oh we are being sent on big circles again. Learning the spin move. :lol:
Will we ever leave the manege?
Is it fun, Harvey?
OMGosh...Grace you're great!
That is total garbage....his mattress was on the floor. I read that a number of stars are now doing that because of fear of someone hiding/recording etc........
totally forgot it!
Thank you :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Conrad Murray: Michael Broke the Syringe! (http://www.tmz.com/2011/03/15/dr-conrad-murray-michael-jackson-manslaughter-case-trial-propofol-court-hearing-syringe-propofol/)
28 minutes ago by TMZ Staff
Among other things, they lasered in on a broken syringe that had rolled under Michael's deathbed.
Rolled under this bed - potentially?
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_rSA9SVWw60w/SnbV0WxNTbI/AAAAAAAAHbI/RbJYBRJRMWY/s400/Michael-Jackson-Deathbed-Photo1.JPG)
:lol:
Oh we are being sent on big circles again. Learning the spin move. :lol:
Will we ever leave the manege?
Is it fun, Harvey?
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michael broke the means by which the sleepy juice was being administered. how is the sleepy juice being administered? the media.
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Dejavu........03-24-2005
Dateline: SANTA MARIA, California
A sheriff's technician testified Thursday in Michael Jackson's molestation trial that she found a fingerprint from the brother of Jackson's accuser in an adult magazine seized from the singer's home.
The prosecution began presenting testimony on fingerprint evidence to support the boys' accounts to the jury that the pop star showed them sexually explicit magazines at his Neverland ranch.
The testimony followed an effort by defense attorney Robert Sanger to undermine the reliability of the results because the magazines were not tested for fingerprints until months …
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Dr. Murray said a few weeks ago that Michael Jackson drank the propofol and died. Now he is saying that Michael Jackson injected the propofol to himself and died. More lies. What's next? Michael Jackson showered himself with propofol and died?
Posted at 11:19 AM on Mar 16, 2011 by Marie
This is the opinion that someone public TMZ :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: hahaha oh i really needed that laugh!! thanks paula! at least somebody is starting to catch on to how ridiculous this whole senario is...all 8 versions of it! lol
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This is the biggest bullshit story I have seen yet! Michael "Broke" the syringe!!
Getouttahere! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 8-) 8-)
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According to Fleak's evidence given on Day 4 of the Prelim (7th Jan) the syringe was on the floor BY the bed and it was SEPARATE not BROKEN:
Witness #15—Elissa Fleak, LA County Coroner's Investigator
DDA established where witness is employed and what job entails—she is an LA County Coroner Investigator. Performs investigations at scenes, notify family, write reports for pathologists, and assist investigation. Eight years (in job). Was working in that capacity in June 2009.
DDA Q: Learned of the death of entertainer Michael Jackson? Fleak: Yes I did.
DDA Q: In response to learning that information did you respond to UCLA medical center?
What time did you respond? Fleak: Can I check my notes?
DDA Q: Yes. Fleak: I arrived at hospital at 17:20 hours.
DDA Q: At UCLA ? Fleak: Yes.
DDA Q: 5: 20 pm?Fleak: Correct.
DDA Q: At your arrival to UCLA did you make physical observations of the decedent?
Fleak describes what she did and what her duties were: To perform an external body examination. “Anything I could infer, to the cause of death for my report.
DDA Q: Looking for wounds, knife wounds?
Fleak: Yes. Did not find anything at that time.
Investigator Fleak obtained 4 vials of blood from UCLA staff labeled Gershwin. [ed. note: recall explanation pseudonym from yesterday’s testimony]
DDA gives label number. Fleak replies, “Yes. Correct.”
DDA Q: Were those vials of blood logged into the coroner’s office? Fleak: Yes.
DDA Q: Was to preserve them? Fleak: Yes for toxicology purposes.
DDA: On that date did you respond to that location of 100 N Carolwood, LA?
Fleak: Yes. After ER room, I went to the house to observe the scene investigation.
She specifically did an investigation of that bedroom area.
(DDA puts up exhibit on the ELMO. Fleak identified where she was told the decedent was before taken to the hospital. Photo of the two tables, night stands; she identifies them.)
DDA Q: People’s 9. Recognize?
Fleak: Yes. The diagram of the second floor of the house.
DDA Q: Depicts the bedroom you just described? Fleak: Yes.
DDA Q: At this point did you begin taking photographs and documenting some of the items you found relevant to pertaining to cause of death. Fleak: Yes.
DDA Q: Begin with any prescription?
Fleak: Yes, I began with several pill bottles on the nightstand right next to the bed.
DDA Q: Did you document inventory?Fleak: Yes I did.
DDA Q: Documented on a Coroner’s 3A form?Fleak: Yes I did.
DDA Q: Do you remember what prescriptions you recovered? Fleak: Yes I do.
DDA Q: What did you recover?
Fleak: Flomax, clonazapam, diazapam, lorazapam, tomazapam, trazadone, and tiziandine.
Also collected several pill bottles, tubes of lotion. Hydrocodone note: Vicodin]. Tube of Lidocane lotion that was it on the nightstand [ed. note: Lidocaine lotion may have been used to reduce pain when starting IV].
DDA Q: How about Benoquin? Fleak: Yes. There was Benoquin.
DDA Q: Lotion in a tube? Fleak: Yes it was.
DDA Q: Did you document who prescribed?
Fleak: diazepam (Valium), Flomax, Lidocaine lotion, lorazepam (Ativan), temazepam (Restoril, a sleep aid) prescribed by Dr. Murray. [ed. note: A cardiologist prescribing a med for prostatic hypertrophy?] Clonazepam (antianxiety), trazodone (antidepressant) by a Dr. Metzger,and prescribed by Dr. Klein [ed. note: Benoquin is a medication used for vitiligo]
DDA shows Investigator Fleak photos of a night stand, close up of table next to night stand,
DDA Q: Do you see the two separate tables? (Shows photo. Line of questioning and answers describes another photo of area where prescription bottles were, in a basket in the lower shelf of one of the tables, as well as other areas of the table.
(There is a tube of Lidocaine lotion on table. There was a syringe on the table and one on the ground, next to the bed.)
The plunger and the top part of the syringe (to which you would attach a needle)?Fleak: Yes.
DDA shows new photos of syringes, of oxygen tank, other items, taking Investigator Fleak through identifying photos with more items, including an IV bag with connected tubing.
Fleak described some of the equipment. Blue “Ambu” bag goes to a nasal cannula. [ed. note: Actually it would be connected directly to oxygen tubing and not a nasal cannula.]
Fleak notes “I did describe it as a broken’ syringe because the two pieces are separated from each other. I should have ...they’re not broken.”
Syringe on the table, needle on the floor. DDA asks Fleak if they may have been together they may not have been. Fleak: correct.
DDA Q: [Regarding location of IV stand] If you were facing at the bed, at the foot of the bed, the head of the bed it would be to your right?
Fleak: Yes. [note: The IV was positioned in Jackson’s left leg.//apparently]
DDA is showing Investigator Fleak photos of nightstand and IV stand and IV kit attached and asks her to identify.
Fleak. Yes. She describes where everything is. “It’s a saline bag”
DDA Q: In addition to observations of what you described, did you locate a jug that appears to be a jug of urine?
Fleak: There was a chair behind and to the left of you that had a bottle of urine and several urine pads.
DDA identifies Peoples 35.Fleak identifies the items in the photo.
DDA Q: Medical-type container for holding urine? Fleak: Correct.
DDA Q: Recovered an open box of disposable hypodermic needles? Fleak: Yes. It was on the two tables as well.
DDA Q: Recovered IV catheters? Fleak: Yes.
DDA Q: Is it all documented in your form? Fleak: Yes it is.
DDA Q: Recovered an empty vial of Propofol and (garbled; could be midazolam
or lorazepam, both of which were given and are given IV)?
Fleak replies vials were found between the two nightstands. DDA presents more photographs for Investigator Fleak
DDA Q: Was this an empty full, partially full bottle of Propofol?
Fleak: It was empty. (She verifies where the Propofol vial was on the floor.)
DDA Q: 200 mg bottle of Propofol? Fleak: Yes.
DDA Q: Now did you return to the location of 100 N Carollwood on June 29th 2009?
Fleak: Yes.
DDA Q: Continued your investigation? Fleak: Yes.
DDA shows Fleak some photos for clarification.
DDA Q: Describe if you will, if you would walk from this area, bedroom 2 closed.
Fleak: It’s an attached room lined with wooden closets lined with wood.
DDA Q: About the size of a regular room? Fleak: Yes.
(She went into this closet area to investigate.)
DDA Q: Recovered items that were logged into evidence? Fleak says yes.
Was that logged (the syringes) as medical evidence #1? Fleak: Yes.
Describes how items were logged into evidence and the numbers given.
People’s 39, 40, 41, 42 43 44 45 photos presented and Fleak describes.
Ppl 39. This is the closet area. Wooden cabinet area. Shows evidence that she collected on 29th. Showing ppls 40 close up of same items. Some bags as well as some plastic bags containing items.
DDA Q: Did you remove those items from that cabinet and inventory them on that day?
Fleak: Yes I did.
DDA Q: Is this a photo of some of those items after being laid out on a table? Fleak: Yes it is.
DDA Q: Describe items.
Fleak: Black square bag with a zipper, recovered from cabinet area. One dark blue bag with a zipper with “Costco” on the outside. Light blue and brown colored bag with a zipper with “baby essentials” bag; misc. medical supplies.
DDA Q: As well as creams? Fleak: Yes bag full of Benoquin lotions. Yes, those are bottles, tubes of lotions.
DDA Q: Did you empty and inventory the contents of these items? Fleak: Yes I did.
DDA Q: This box, a black pressure cuff? Bottles?
Fleak: Three bottles of Lidocaine. Vials of Lidocaine. [ed. note: Differs from Lidocaine cream/lotion in that this solution is added to Propofol to reduce pain upon injection.]
Fleak checks notes to remember if the bottles were full or not. “Two were empty and one of them had some liquid in it. All three of them had been opened.” They were 30 milliliter bottles. Large dark blue Costco bag.
DDA Q: Did you find saline bag that had been apparently cut open? Fleak: Yes I did.
DDA Q: Find anything in that saline bag? Fleak: A bottle of Propofol inside that cut-open bag.
DDA shows Fleak a photo.Flea: Yes (that’s what she found).
DDA Q: Can you describe what I’m showing; can you describe?
Fleak: It’s a slit in the bag.
DDA Q: Did you take this photograph? That was the Propofol bottle that was inside the IV bag? Fleak: Yes.
DDA Q: In addition the IV bag with the slit in and the 100 mg. Propofol you mentioned, what else did you find?
Fleak: 20 ml bottle of Propofol bottle. Back to 100 ml bottle; it was open and had liquid in it. Twenty ml. open with liquid in it. Ten ml. lorazepam (Ativan) bottle open with liquid in it. Two bottles of midazalom (Versed) 10 ml both open, both had liquid in them.
DDA Q: Was there any other items in there?
Fleak: A bloody piece of gauze, a bag of miscellaneous packaging, medical packaging and a finger pulse monitor.
Inventory of the light blue and brown “baby essentials” bag.
2 100ml bottles of Propofol
2 20 ml bottles of Propofol unopened
(3?) bottles of 20
3 20 ml bottles of Lidocaine opened
1 30 mil bottle of Lidocaine unopened
20 ml bottle of diazepam opened
(Sprocket note: I can’t keep up.)
more unopened. 5 mi diazepam opened.
1 4ml (Sprocket note: I missed) opened
1 4ml of diazepam unopened.
DDA Q: Where there other items?
Fleak replies: Red pill bottle with no label that contained 14 capsules turned out to be ephedrine. Over-the-counter night drops. Five bus cards of Dr. Murray. An IV clamp. A blue strip of rubber.
Fleak recognized the rubber as used for a tourniquet.
DDA Q: In total, looking at contents of both bags, is accurate to say, there were 11 bottles of Propofol?
Fleak: correct
DDA Q: In addition to the one empty bottle on the floor of Propofol there were a total of 12 bottles of Propofol. Is it true there were six bottles of Lidocaine?
Fleak: I’d have to count.
DDA Q: Could you please?Fleak: Six, correct.
DDA Q: In addition to the Lidocaine lotion. Correct.
Another photo exhibit. Photo of some of the contents of the “baby essentials” bag.
Describes the items that were all in the photo...medicines.
DDA: Nothing further.
Defense CROSS FLANAGAN.
Q: You made a search of the bedroom on 25th in the evening? Fleak: Yes.
Q: And that’s where you obtained all of the photos and the bed and the surrounding the bed?
Fleak: Some were taken on the 29th. I was told by detectives additional information medical evidence at the house.
Q: They told you Dr. Murray told them a location and what they had? Did they tell you the interview that they had was from Dr. Murray?
Fleak: Yes. (Objection, sustained, reply stricken from record.)
Q: Did they tell you what information they had that you—(Objection, sustained).
Why did you go back on the 29th?
Fleak: I was told there was additional evidence at the house.
Q: Detective smith. Did he tell you what there was?
Fleak: No.
Q: Did he tell you where to look?
Fleak: Yes. In that closet room.
Q: Had you looked in that room on the 25th?
Fleak: I did not. I may have glanced in the room but I did not search it.
(note: Please recall the house was not sealed off for upto 4days after the ‘death’ had occurred. Everyone including the Jackson’s went back and forwards through the house until it was deemed a crime scene.If no one searched the bedroom on June 25th how the hell are they sure they were not put there between the 25th and 29th ?? exactly....they aren’t)
Q: So you went back looking for evidence that Detective Smith said would be there.
Fleak: Yes.
Q: Did you search any of the other items, any of the other drawers?Fleak: Yes.
Q: Was all of the stuff that you found that you took into your custody, was all in that one little area? (lists the bag)
Fleak: Those three bags were found in that cabinet, yes.
Q: When you went through and searched all the drawers and cabinets in that room, did you ever find a trash bag?
Fleak: What type of trash bag? Like a grocery trash bag? No. In the plastic bag, there was something that was crumpled up...
(Discussion about bag and baggies.)
It was clear plastic bag about a gallon. There was no zipper, it was just open at the top.
There was clumpled-up plastics, like disposable syringes, the packaging surrounding syringes, tissues, crumpled up.
Q: Like anything that had biological material on it?
Fleak: It was in the Costco plastic bag, but I don’t remember specifically if it was crumpled up.
Defense now questions about the IV bag with the Propofol bottle in it, questioning Fleak about how much was left in the bottle. She didn’t inventory for amount any bottles that were opened.
Q: You fingerprinted? Fleak: I didn’t fingerprint. Notes mean the bottle was open, it had liquid in it and it was fingerprinted.
At this time, I believe it was possible to be fingerprinted. We are not fingerprinted at that time when I wrote my notes.
Q: You didn’t use the term positive for liquid you just have residual?
Fleak: “In my mind it means the same thing. It was just how I was taking notes.”
Q: The black square bags. On things you have listed, it’s crossed out. Fleak: It ‘s just a number 2.
Fleak: I don’t know why I crossed that number out. Two vials... Empty means there was on liquid in it that I could see.
Q: The Costco bag was a mixture of partially used and full bottles? Did they all have liquid in them? Fleak: Yes.
Q: Some were partially used? Fleak: Correct.
Q: The IV from the IV bag. Last page of your worksheet. “IV bag from the IV stand.”
Did it have liquid in it? Fleak: Yes.
Q: Did you have it fingerprinted? Fleak: I don’t remember.
Q: This IV bag had some tubing coming down from it. Fleak: Yes.
Q:And in the tubing had an IV in it?
Fleak:Halfway from the tubing there was a clamp and that clamp had a syringe in it.
The plunger was depressed. I don’t remember if there was a small amount of liquid in the syringe.
Q: Was the plunger completely depressed? Fleak: I don’t remember exactly where it was.
Q: Was there residue? Fleak: I don’t remember?
Q: Was there more tubing below that IV port? Fleak: Yes.
Q: Did that tubing have liquid in it? Fleak: I don’t remember.
Q: Did the tubing above it have liquid in it? Fleak: Yes.
Q: Was that clear?Fleak: Yes
Q: Was the IV bag clear? Fleak: Yes.
Q: Did it have a milky appearance to it? Fleak: It was clear.
Q: When you went back on the 29th, was this the only thing you collected from the bedroom?
Fleak: Yes.
Q: One of the items, I think this bag, fingerprint dusted, the only [thing] you remember is from the IV bag itself?
Fleak: Yes. Remembers that the IV bag had about 1/2 to 3/4 full when it was hanging.
Q:It was open? Fleak:yes
Fleak: "There was a vial, with some medications.”
Q: What was crumpled up? Fleak: The packaging.
Q: You described that as a bag of medical garbage? Fleak: Yes.
Q: All of these things, all of the vials, hand been used? Is that correct? Fleak: Yes.
Q: They were open and they had liquid in them? Fleak: yes
Q: In the main room, where was the IV bag on the stand that had the syringe in it? In that room? In this corner. (She's pointing to an exhibit on the screen with a laser pointer.)
Why wasn’t that taken on the 25th?
Fleak: I wasn’t taking anything that was injectable. I’m usually looking for pill bottles. At the time I didn’t know what Propofol was when I was there. I didn’t know it was injected intravenously. I didn’t know it would be used to administer the drugs that were there.
Q: So you saw the IV drugs there?
Fleak: I saw bottles of medications.
Q: Asks about the “broken” syringe.
Fleak: I should have described it as “separate.” It was not cracked it was not broken it was not defective in any way. They were just separate—the needle and the plunger.
Q: As you sit here now you would have described it as a broken syringe? Fleak: No I wouldn’t
Q: Why did you collect that? Fleak: It was on the ground near the bottle on the ground.
Q: Did you ask for these things to be fingerprinted? Fleak: I don’t remember?
Q: Is it part of your role to ask for things to be fingerprinted? Fleak: No.
Q: So (what is your role?) you collect and put away? Maintain custody?
Fleak: In a complete death investigation we have more responsibilities than just collecting and logging evidence. (A coroner's investigator) performs a body investigation, notifies families, performs a death scene investigation...
Q: On that day, did you notice the IV with the pole with the IV syringe?
Fleak: Yes I did.
Did you notice on the table some juice bottles? They were labeled the Naked Juice company.
Were they empty?
Fleak: Yes.
Fleak: I did not collect those juice bottles and I did not document what was in them.
Q: You left them there at the scene? Fleak: Yes. They were on the table next to the bed.
Q: And the syringe, was it in reachable distance of the bed?
How far was the syringe from the bed? Fleak: About 2 feet.
Q: Bottle of Propofol, how far was that? Fleak: I don’t know if it was one foot or more
Q: Defense attorney asks, something about what about a 136 pound, 5'9" man, could they have reached it.
(isn’t MJ 5’11?)
Did you take the Ambu bag into custody? Fleak: No I did not.
Q: The open box of disposable needles how close was that to the table? Fleak: Couple feet.
Q: So if that was on the table so you could reach that?
Fleak: Both vials on the floor were empty. No liquid that I could see. I could not see and I did not check the inside of those vials.
Q: When you seized these items, where did you take them? Fleak: To the coroner’s office.
Q: What did you do with them? Fleak: booked them into evidence.
Q: Did you inspect them? Fleak: As far as the labels...
Q: Did you inspect them, as far as the portions? Fleak: No.
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strange that we hear about this now......they never said before about a sirynge under the bed
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Curls, thank you so much for this information!!!
We should trust less what TMZ writes.
And the Coroner's Investigator didn't collect the (now famous) juice bottles, and didn't even bother to document what was in them???
It's not logical for me that she should only focus on medicines and medical aids. A lethal dose of medicine/drug can be in anything.
"Did you notice on the table some juice bottles? They were labeled the Naked Juice company.
Were they empty?
Fleak: Yes.
Fleak: I did not collect those juice bottles and I did not document what was in them.Q: You left them there at the scene? Fleak: Yes. They were on the table next to the bed."
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29th December 2010..
Judge approves residue testing in Jackson doctor's defense
The judge in the involuntary manslaughter case against Dr. Conrad Murray on Wednesday approved a plan to allow defense lawyers to test residue from syringes and an intravenous drip found in pop star Michael Jackson's home after his June 25, 2009, death.
During the court hearing, one of Murray's attorneys, J. Michael Flanagan, alleged that coroner's officials should have done "quantitative" analysis of the items to help determine "the means of who injected Jackson" with the powerful drugs that killed him.
So how many syringes were there??? It mentions "syringes", but doesn't mentione the state they are in. So these syringes have played a huge role in this hoax.
They must of been handles so often now. How can this be possible now? Fingerprints fade with time, and there was never any mention of whether the syringes contained any residue...Things that make you go hmmmmmm
http://articles.cnn.com/2010-12-29/just ... s=PM:CRIME (http://articles.cnn.com/2010-12-29/justice/california.conrad.murray.hearing_1_propofol-residue-coroner?_s=PM:CRIME)
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Didn´t we read as well that Álvarez said that Murray put items in a canvas bag? What if the bag had also THE syringe?
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According to Fleak's evidence given on Day 4 of the Prelim (7th Jan) the syringe was on the floor BY the bed and it was SEPARATE not BROKEN:
Witness #15—Elissa Fleak, LA County Coroner's Investigator
DDA established where witness is employed and what job entails—she is an LA County Coroner Investigator. Performs investigations at scenes, notify family, write reports for pathologists, and assist investigation. Eight years (in job). Was working in that capacity in June 2009.
DDA Q: Learned of the death of entertainer Michael Jackson? Fleak: Yes I did.
DDA Q: In response to learning that information did you respond to UCLA medical center?
What time did you respond? Fleak: Can I check my notes?
DDA Q: Yes. Fleak: I arrived at hospital at 17:20 hours.
DDA Q: At UCLA ? Fleak: Yes.
DDA Q: 5: 20 pm?Fleak: Correct.
DDA Q: At your arrival to UCLA did you make physical observations of the decedent?
Fleak describes what she did and what her duties were: To perform an external body examination. “Anything I could infer, to the cause of death for my report.
DDA Q: Looking for wounds, knife wounds?
Fleak: Yes. Did not find anything at that time.
Investigator Fleak obtained 4 vials of blood from UCLA staff labeled Gershwin. [ed. note: recall explanation pseudonym from yesterday’s testimony]
DDA gives label number. Fleak replies, “Yes. Correct.”
DDA Q: Were those vials of blood logged into the coroner’s office? Fleak: Yes.
DDA Q: Was to preserve them? Fleak: Yes for toxicology purposes.
DDA: On that date did you respond to that location of 100 N Carolwood, LA?
Fleak: Yes. After ER room, I went to the house to observe the scene investigation.
She specifically did an investigation of that bedroom area.
(DDA puts up exhibit on the ELMO. Fleak identified where she was told the decedent was before taken to the hospital. Photo of the two tables, night stands; she identifies them.)
DDA Q: People’s 9. Recognize?
Fleak: Yes. The diagram of the second floor of the house.
DDA Q: Depicts the bedroom you just described? Fleak: Yes.
DDA Q: At this point did you begin taking photographs and documenting some of the items you found relevant to pertaining to cause of death. Fleak: Yes.
DDA Q: Begin with any prescription?
Fleak: Yes, I began with several pill bottles on the nightstand right next to the bed.
DDA Q: Did you document inventory?Fleak: Yes I did.
DDA Q: Documented on a Coroner’s 3A form?Fleak: Yes I did.
DDA Q: Do you remember what prescriptions you recovered? Fleak: Yes I do.
DDA Q: What did you recover?
Fleak: Flomax, clonazapam, diazapam, lorazapam, tomazapam, trazadone, and tiziandine.
Also collected several pill bottles, tubes of lotion. Hydrocodone note: Vicodin]. Tube of Lidocane lotion that was it on the nightstand [ed. note: Lidocaine lotion may have been used to reduce pain when starting IV].
DDA Q: How about Benoquin? Fleak: Yes. There was Benoquin.
DDA Q: Lotion in a tube? Fleak: Yes it was.
DDA Q: Did you document who prescribed?
Fleak: diazepam (Valium), Flomax, Lidocaine lotion, lorazepam (Ativan), temazepam (Restoril, a sleep aid) prescribed by Dr. Murray. [ed. note: A cardiologist prescribing a med for prostatic hypertrophy?] Clonazepam (antianxiety), trazodone (antidepressant) by a Dr. Metzger,and prescribed by Dr. Klein [ed. note: Benoquin is a medication used for vitiligo]
DDA shows Investigator Fleak photos of a night stand, close up of table next to night stand,
DDA Q: Do you see the two separate tables? (Shows photo. Line of questioning and answers describes another photo of area where prescription bottles were, in a basket in the lower shelf of one of the tables, as well as other areas of the table.
(There is a tube of Lidocaine lotion on table. There was a syringe on the table and one on the ground, next to the bed.)
The plunger and the top part of the syringe (to which you would attach a needle)?Fleak: Yes.
DDA shows new photos of syringes, of oxygen tank, other items, taking Investigator Fleak through identifying photos with more items, including an IV bag with connected tubing.
Fleak described some of the equipment. Blue “Ambu” bag goes to a nasal cannula. [ed. note: Actually it would be connected directly to oxygen tubing and not a nasal cannula.]
Fleak notes “I did describe it as a broken’ syringe because the two pieces are separated from each other. I should have ...they’re not broken.”
Syringe on the table, needle on the floor. DDA asks Fleak if they may have been together they may not have been. Fleak: correct.
DDA Q: [Regarding location of IV stand] If you were facing at the bed, at the foot of the bed, the head of the bed it would be to your right?
Fleak: Yes. [note: The IV was positioned in Jackson’s left leg.//apparently]
DDA is showing Investigator Fleak photos of nightstand and IV stand and IV kit attached and asks her to identify.
Fleak. Yes. She describes where everything is. “It’s a saline bag”
DDA Q: In addition to observations of what you described, did you locate a jug that appears to be a jug of urine?
Fleak: There was a chair behind and to the left of you that had a bottle of urine and several urine pads.
DDA identifies Peoples 35.Fleak identifies the items in the photo.
DDA Q: Medical-type container for holding urine? Fleak: Correct.
DDA Q: Recovered an open box of disposable hypodermic needles? Fleak: Yes. It was on the two tables as well.
DDA Q: Recovered IV catheters? Fleak: Yes.
DDA Q: Is it all documented in your form? Fleak: Yes it is.
DDA Q: Recovered an empty vial of Propofol and (garbled; could be midazolam
or lorazepam, both of which were given and are given IV)?
Fleak replies vials were found between the two nightstands. DDA presents more photographs for Investigator Fleak
DDA Q: Was this an empty full, partially full bottle of Propofol?
Fleak: It was empty. (She verifies where the Propofol vial was on the floor.)
DDA Q: 200 mg bottle of Propofol? Fleak: Yes.
DDA Q: Now did you return to the location of 100 N Carollwood on June 29th 2009?
Fleak: Yes.
DDA Q: Continued your investigation? Fleak: Yes.
DDA shows Fleak some photos for clarification.
DDA Q: Describe if you will, if you would walk from this area, bedroom 2 closed.
Fleak: It’s an attached room lined with wooden closets lined with wood.
DDA Q: About the size of a regular room? Fleak: Yes.
(She went into this closet area to investigate.)
DDA Q: Recovered items that were logged into evidence? Fleak says yes.
Was that logged (the syringes) as medical evidence #1? Fleak: Yes.
Describes how items were logged into evidence and the numbers given.
People’s 39, 40, 41, 42 43 44 45 photos presented and Fleak describes.
Ppl 39. This is the closet area. Wooden cabinet area. Shows evidence that she collected on 29th. Showing ppls 40 close up of same items. Some bags as well as some plastic bags containing items.
DDA Q: Did you remove those items from that cabinet and inventory them on that day?
Fleak: Yes I did.
DDA Q: Is this a photo of some of those items after being laid out on a table? Fleak: Yes it is.
DDA Q: Describe items.
Fleak: Black square bag with a zipper, recovered from cabinet area. One dark blue bag with a zipper with “Costco” on the outside. Light blue and brown colored bag with a zipper with “baby essentials” bag; misc. medical supplies.
DDA Q: As well as creams? Fleak: Yes bag full of Benoquin lotions. Yes, those are bottles, tubes of lotions.
DDA Q: Did you empty and inventory the contents of these items? Fleak: Yes I did.
DDA Q: This box, a black pressure cuff? Bottles?
Fleak: Three bottles of Lidocaine. Vials of Lidocaine. [ed. note: Differs from Lidocaine cream/lotion in that this solution is added to Propofol to reduce pain upon injection.]
Fleak checks notes to remember if the bottles were full or not. “Two were empty and one of them had some liquid in it. All three of them had been opened.” They were 30 milliliter bottles. Large dark blue Costco bag.
DDA Q: Did you find saline bag that had been apparently cut open? Fleak: Yes I did.
DDA Q: Find anything in that saline bag? Fleak: A bottle of Propofol inside that cut-open bag.
DDA shows Fleak a photo.Flea: Yes (that’s what she found).
DDA Q: Can you describe what I’m showing; can you describe?
Fleak: It’s a slit in the bag.
DDA Q: Did you take this photograph? That was the Propofol bottle that was inside the IV bag? Fleak: Yes.
DDA Q: In addition the IV bag with the slit in and the 100 mg. Propofol you mentioned, what else did you find?
Fleak: 20 ml bottle of Propofol bottle. Back to 100 ml bottle; it was open and had liquid in it. Twenty ml. open with liquid in it. Ten ml. lorazepam (Ativan) bottle open with liquid in it. Two bottles of midazalom (Versed) 10 ml both open, both had liquid in them.
DDA Q: Was there any other items in there?
Fleak: A bloody piece of gauze, a bag of miscellaneous packaging, medical packaging and a finger pulse monitor.
Inventory of the light blue and brown “baby essentials” bag.
2 100ml bottles of Propofol
2 20 ml bottles of Propofol unopened
(3?) bottles of 20
3 20 ml bottles of Lidocaine opened
1 30 mil bottle of Lidocaine unopened
20 ml bottle of diazepam opened
(Sprocket note: I can’t keep up.)
more unopened. 5 mi diazepam opened.
1 4ml (Sprocket note: I missed) opened
1 4ml of diazepam unopened.
DDA Q: Where there other items?
Fleak replies: Red pill bottle with no label that contained 14 capsules turned out to be ephedrine. Over-the-counter night drops. Five bus cards of Dr. Murray. An IV clamp. A blue strip of rubber.
Fleak recognized the rubber as used for a tourniquet.
DDA Q: In total, looking at contents of both bags, is accurate to say, there were 11 bottles of Propofol?
Fleak: correct
DDA Q: In addition to the one empty bottle on the floor of Propofol there were a total of 12 bottles of Propofol. Is it true there were six bottles of Lidocaine?
Fleak: I’d have to count.
DDA Q: Could you please?Fleak: Six, correct.
DDA Q: In addition to the Lidocaine lotion. Correct.
Another photo exhibit. Photo of some of the contents of the “baby essentials” bag.
Describes the items that were all in the photo...medicines.
DDA: Nothing further.
Defense CROSS FLANAGAN.
Q: You made a search of the bedroom on 25th in the evening? Fleak: Yes.
Q: And that’s where you obtained all of the photos and the bed and the surrounding the bed?
Fleak: Some were taken on the 29th. I was told by detectives additional information medical evidence at the house.
Q: They told you Dr. Murray told them a location and what they had? Did they tell you the interview that they had was from Dr. Murray?
Fleak: Yes. (Objection, sustained, reply stricken from record.)
Q: Did they tell you what information they had that you—(Objection, sustained).
Why did you go back on the 29th?
Fleak: I was told there was additional evidence at the house.
Q: Detective smith. Did he tell you what there was?
Fleak: No.
Q: Did he tell you where to look?
Fleak: Yes. In that closet room.
Q: Had you looked in that room on the 25th?
Fleak: I did not. I may have glanced in the room but I did not search it.
(note: Please recall the house was not sealed off for upto 4days after the ‘death’ had occurred. Everyone including the Jackson’s went back and forwards through the house until it was deemed a crime scene.If no one searched the bedroom on June 25th how the hell are they sure they were not put there between the 25th and 29th ?? exactly....they aren’t)
Q: So you went back looking for evidence that Detective Smith said would be there.
Fleak: Yes.
Q: Did you search any of the other items, any of the other drawers?Fleak: Yes.
Q: Was all of the stuff that you found that you took into your custody, was all in that one little area? (lists the bag)
Fleak: Those three bags were found in that cabinet, yes.
Q: When you went through and searched all the drawers and cabinets in that room, did you ever find a trash bag?
Fleak: What type of trash bag? Like a grocery trash bag? No. In the plastic bag, there was something that was crumpled up...
(Discussion about bag and baggies.)
It was clear plastic bag about a gallon. There was no zipper, it was just open at the top.
There was clumpled-up plastics, like disposable syringes, the packaging surrounding syringes, tissues, crumpled up.
Q: Like anything that had biological material on it?
Fleak: It was in the Costco plastic bag, but I don’t remember specifically if it was crumpled up.
Defense now questions about the IV bag with the Propofol bottle in it, questioning Fleak about how much was left in the bottle. She didn’t inventory for amount any bottles that were opened.
Q: You fingerprinted? Fleak: I didn’t fingerprint. Notes mean the bottle was open, it had liquid in it and it was fingerprinted.
At this time, I believe it was possible to be fingerprinted. We are not fingerprinted at that time when I wrote my notes.
Q: You didn’t use the term positive for liquid you just have residual?
Fleak: “In my mind it means the same thing. It was just how I was taking notes.”
Q: The black square bags. On things you have listed, it’s crossed out. Fleak: It ‘s just a number 2.
Fleak: I don’t know why I crossed that number out. Two vials... Empty means there was on liquid in it that I could see.
Q: The Costco bag was a mixture of partially used and full bottles? Did they all have liquid in them? Fleak: Yes.
Q: Some were partially used? Fleak: Correct.
Q: The IV from the IV bag. Last page of your worksheet. “IV bag from the IV stand.”
Did it have liquid in it? Fleak: Yes.
Q: Did you have it fingerprinted? Fleak: I don’t remember.
Q: This IV bag had some tubing coming down from it. Fleak: Yes.
Q:And in the tubing had an IV in it?
Fleak:Halfway from the tubing there was a clamp and that clamp had a syringe in it.
The plunger was depressed. I don’t remember if there was a small amount of liquid in the syringe.
Q: Was the plunger completely depressed? Fleak: I don’t remember exactly where it was.
Q: Was there residue? Fleak: I don’t remember?
Q: Was there more tubing below that IV port? Fleak: Yes.
Q: Did that tubing have liquid in it? Fleak: I don’t remember.
Q: Did the tubing above it have liquid in it? Fleak: Yes.
Q: Was that clear?Fleak: Yes
Q: Was the IV bag clear? Fleak: Yes.
Q: Did it have a milky appearance to it? Fleak: It was clear.
Q: When you went back on the 29th, was this the only thing you collected from the bedroom?
Fleak: Yes.
Q: One of the items, I think this bag, fingerprint dusted, the only [thing] you remember is from the IV bag itself?
Fleak: Yes. Remembers that the IV bag had about 1/2 to 3/4 full when it was hanging.
Q:It was open? Fleak:yes
Fleak: "There was a vial, with some medications.”
Q: What was crumpled up? Fleak: The packaging.
Q: You described that as a bag of medical garbage? Fleak: Yes.
Q: All of these things, all of the vials, hand been used? Is that correct? Fleak: Yes.
Q: They were open and they had liquid in them? Fleak: yes
Q: In the main room, where was the IV bag on the stand that had the syringe in it? In that room? In this corner. (She's pointing to an exhibit on the screen with a laser pointer.)
Why wasn’t that taken on the 25th?
Fleak: I wasn’t taking anything that was injectable. I’m usually looking for pill bottles. At the time I didn’t know what Propofol was when I was there. I didn’t know it was injected intravenously. I didn’t know it would be used to administer the drugs that were there.
Q: So you saw the IV drugs there?
Fleak: I saw bottles of medications.
Q: Asks about the “broken” syringe.
Fleak: I should have described it as “separate.” It was not cracked it was not broken it was not defective in any way. They were just separate—the needle and the plunger.
Q: As you sit here now you would have described it as a broken syringe? Fleak: No I wouldn’t
Q: Why did you collect that? Fleak: It was on the ground near the bottle on the ground.
Q: Did you ask for these things to be fingerprinted? Fleak: I don’t remember?
Q: Is it part of your role to ask for things to be fingerprinted? Fleak: No.
Q: So (what is your role?) you collect and put away? Maintain custody?
Fleak: In a complete death investigation we have more responsibilities than just collecting and logging evidence. (A coroner's investigator) performs a body investigation, notifies families, performs a death scene investigation...
Q: On that day, did you notice the IV with the pole with the IV syringe?
Fleak: Yes I did.
Did you notice on the table some juice bottles? They were labeled the Naked Juice company.
Were they empty?
Fleak: Yes.
Fleak: I did not collect those juice bottles and I did not document what was in them.
Q: You left them there at the scene? Fleak: Yes. They were on the table next to the bed.
Q: And the syringe, was it in reachable distance of the bed?
How far was the syringe from the bed? Fleak: About 2 feet.
Q: Bottle of Propofol, how far was that? Fleak: I don’t know if it was one foot or more
Q: Defense attorney asks, something about what about a 136 pound, 5'9" man, could they have reached it.
(isn’t MJ 5’11?)
Did you take the Ambu bag into custody? Fleak: No I did not.
Q: The open box of disposable needles how close was that to the table? Fleak: Couple feet.
Q: So if that was on the table so you could reach that?
Fleak: Both vials on the floor were empty. No liquid that I could see. I could not see and I did not check the inside of those vials.
Q: When you seized these items, where did you take them? Fleak: To the coroner’s office.
Q: What did you do with them? Fleak: booked them into evidence.
Q: Did you inspect them? Fleak: As far as the labels...
Q: Did you inspect them, as far as the portions? Fleak: No.
ok one of the ideas i am getting from this is that the things alverez testified that murry had him help gather up and put in this bag and put in the closet , did murry turn around and tell them it was there? or did alveraz? or am i just :?
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I am trying to find Álvarez testimonial. The syringe story does not match with other articles.
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I am trying to find Álvarez testimonial. The syringe story does not match with other articles.
It was Day 2 of the Prelim. Is this what you're looking for?:
viewtopic.php?f=217&t=17067#p291338 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=217&t=17067#p291338)
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According to Fleak's evidence given on Day 4 of the Prelim (7th Jan) the syringe was on the floor BY the bed and it was SEPARATE not BROKEN:
Witness #15—Elissa Fleak, LA County Coroner's Investigator
There was a syringe on the table and one on the ground, next to the bed.)
The plunger and the top part of the syringe (to which you would attach a needle)?Fleak: Yes.
Fleak notes “I did describe it as a broken’ syringe because the two pieces are separated from each other. I should have ...they’re not broken.”
Syringe on the table, needle on the floor. DDA asks Fleak if they may have been together they may not have been. Fleak: correct.
Thank you so much Curls for sharing this info with us. Ok, so we have a seperated syringe, not a broken one. The question is why would it be seperated? It is so hard to seperate the syringe with a single hand. Why would MJ bother to seperate the syringe? It doesn't make any sense still. I'm just trying to assume the story is right, although I know that this is just a circus. :)
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Ok I know we are on the syringe but back to the fingerprinting.
As I was looking into things I came across this... thought it was something we should be aware of as we are looking into things.
http://cryptome.org/fake-prints.htm
3.3 Counterfeiting Fingerprints
The biggest problem when using biometrical identification on the basis of fingerprints is the fact that, to the knowledge of the authors, none of the fingerprint scanners that are currently available can distinguish between a finger and a well-created dummy. Note that this is contrary to what some of the producers of these scanners claim in their documentation. We will prove the statement by accurately describing two methods to create dummies that will be accepted by the scanners as true fingerprints. The two methods vary based on the cooperation of the fingerprint owner. Although there will without doubt be more ways to counterfeit fingerprints, the methods described in this article should suffice to show that all current scanners can be fooled. Results of tests of current scanners can be found in Appendix C.
Duplication With Co-operation
Duplication of a fingerprint with co-operation of its owner is of course the easiest method since it is possible to compare the dummy with the original fingerprint on all aspects and adapt it accordingly. First, a plaster cast of the finger is created. This cast is then filled with silicon rubber to create a wafer-thin silicon dummy (see also Figure 1). This dummy can be glued to anyone's finger without it being noticeable to the eye. For a thorough description of how to create such a dummy, we refer to Appendix A which describes the materials and tools that can be used. From the appendix it follows that creation of this type of dummy is possible with very liniited means within a few hours.
(http://cryptome.org/bfr001.jpg)
Duplication Without Co-operation
For duplication of a fingerprint without co-operation of its owner it is necessary to obtain a print of the finger from for example a glass or another surface. One of the best ways to obtain such a print could be the fingerprint scanner itself. If the scanner is cleaned before a person will be using it, an almost perfect print is left on the scanner surface since people tend to press their finger (which is the verification finger!) firmly on the scanner. Some more expertise is required to create a dummy from such a print, but every dental technician has the skills and equipment to create one. An accurate description of how to create a dummy Of the fingerprint can be found in Appendix B. A picture of a stamp that is created using this method can be found in Figure 2.
(http://cryptome.org/bfr002.jpg)
The reason I put this here is 1. so we are aware that this is possible, 2. thinking back to MJ's previous court appearances, if there is corruption and someone wanted to frame MJ or paint a certain picture, they could. 3. Taking this into consideration, how could fingerprints on a 20 month old syringe be considered admissible in a court of law?
"Fingerprint evidence has widely been thought to be irrefutable in court. Things aren't always as they appear to be." http://www.hgexperts.com/article.asp?id=4805
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I am trying to find Álvarez testimonial. The syringe story does not match with other articles.
It was Day 2 of the Prelim. Is this what you're looking for?:
viewtopic.php?f=217&t=17067#p291338 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=217&t=17067#p291338)
Thanks!
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I quoted a part of medical info about cracked or broken syringes:
"A member hospital reported an overinfusion of Demerol when a cracked prefilled glass syringe was used in a patient-controlled analgesia (PCA) infusion pump. The crack, which may have developed either before or during installation of the syringe in the pump, allowed gravity free-flow of the analgesic from the syringe. Gravity free-flow of a potent medication, such as Demerol, can cause potentially fatal respiratory and/or cardiac complications.
Background
Certain types of infusion pumps, specifically syringe pumps and many PCA pumps, use syringes as liquid medication reservoirs. Because syringes are easy to prepare, their use is convenient when small volumes of liquid medications (i.e., 60 mL or less) need to be infused. Many medications can even be purchased in prefilled syringes. However, because most prefilled syringes, including those used for certain PCA pumps, include a glass barrel that can break or crack (prefilled syringes are not typically made of plastic), they are particularly susceptible to damage that would allow leakage or gravity free-flow incidents, as discussed below. We have not received any reports of gravity free-flow resulting from damage to plastic syringes."
http://www.mdsr.ecri.org/summary/detail ... oc_id=8169 (http://www.mdsr.ecri.org/summary/detail.aspx?doc_id=8169)
I'm not an expert in this field, but I know that incidents occur because of leaking syringes. What if the broken or seperated syringe caused a leakage or gravity free-low incident risking fatal respiratory and/or cardiac complications, even if it's a small volume?
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If air enters the blood system, it can be fatal in some cases.
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suppose any of this could lead to the discovery of the dead person not being michael? :?
Hello everybody
My opinion is: MJ fingerprints can not be on the syringe, because MJ was already to the airport (Jermaine's words). Fingerprints of an unknown person will be found (the hospice patient where the paramedics were talking about). Then we have the BIG question " where is Michael". My imagination is like a horse again: "running wild".
Bye bye ;)
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suspicious mind wrote:
suppose any of this could lead to the discovery of the dead person not being michael?
Suspicious mind, the same thought occurred to me when I read they wanted the first generation finger prints. They might not match the "MJ" that was at the Carrolwood house on June 25th.
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Whoever that man was Dr. Murray was medicating to death could have not had the strength to drug himself to death or be able to break the syringe!!
UNLESS WITH HIS LAST BIT OF STRENGTH HE WAS TRYING TO FIGHT TO SAVE HIS LIFE FROM HIS KILLERS DR. MURRAY AND WHOEVER ELSE WAS THERE...
I CANNOT BELIEVE THIS IS BEING PRESENTED IN COURT AS EVIDENCE!
THE MAN WAS FOUND DEAD LOOKING PALE OLD SICKLY HOSPICE AIDS PATIENT WHO HAS BEEN MEDICATED TO DEATH ALL NIGHT LONG AND HAVING A CATHETER AND AN IV STUCK IN HIM CAN ALL OF A SUDDEN MUSTER ENOUGH STRENGTH THROUGH ALL OF THIS MADNESS WAS ABLE TO DRUG HIMSELF AND BREAK A SYRINGE!
THIS IS BEYOND UNDERSTANDING OR BELIEF!!!! :shock: :shock: :shock:
I AM ALSO SHOCKED THAT THERE WAS NO STRING OR A BUTTON FOR HIM TO PUSH OR PULL IF HE NEEDED SOMEONE OR IF HE FELL OFF OF THE BED!! :evil: :twisted:
I PRAY THIS IS A HOAX AND THAT WAS NOT A REAL PERSON FOR IF IT WAS A REAL LIVING PERSON THAN DR. MURRAY SHOULD BE ON TRIAL FOR MURDER, MALICE, MUTILATION, INHUMANE ACT AGAINST GOD AND MAN AND HE SHOULD GET LIFE IN PRISON FOR MAKING ANYONE SUFFER AND DIE IN SUCH AN UGLY AND HORRIBLE WAY.
:evil: :twisted: :evil: :twisted:
HE SHOULD BE UP THERE WITH JEFFERY DAMER WHO WAS KILLING AND EATING PEOPLE AND HITLER! :evil: :twisted: :evil: :twisted:
HOW COULD HE HAVE DONE SUCH AN UNCONSCIOUS ACT AS THIS THING AND WHY DID HE NOT TAKE THIS PERSON TO THE EMERGENCY ROOM. HE SAT THERE AND WATCHED SOMEONE DIE SLOWLY AND DID NOTHING!! :evil: :evil:
EVIL!! EVIL! EVIL! :evil: :evil:
AND NOW YOU WANT TO BLAME THE VICTIM THE DECEASED WHEN YOU ARE THE ONE WHO SLOWLY ADMINISTERED POWERFUL MEDICATIONS THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE IN A HASPITAL SETTING.
YOU DID NOT EVEN HAVE THE CORRECT EQUIPMENT TO SAVE THE PERSON IF THEY WENT INTO CRADIC ARREST AND COULD NOT WAKE UP. :evil: :twisted:
THAN YOU SAT THERE ON THE PHONE CHATTING AWAY AND URINATING WATCHING THEM DIE AND YOU THOUGH HAD A PHONE AND WAS USING IT COULD NOT EVEN CALL 911 TO TRY AND SAVE THEM... :evil: :twisted: :evil: :twisted:
I DO NOT KNOW HOW HIS LAWYERS ARE EVEN DEFENDING HIM!
THEY MUST BE GETINNG MILLIONS AND DO NOT MIND TAKING BLLOD MONEY JUST LIKE IN THE DEVILS ADVOCATE!
WE SHOULD SEND THEM A COPY :evil: :evil: