Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators
Latest News => The Redirects => TIAI => The Plan (Qanon, TIAI, BACK) => TIAI ~ 2011 => Topic started by: TS_comments on March 09, 2011, 05:33:18 AM
-
(http://www.fungiftideas.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Graduation.jpg)
First of all, congratulations to everyone—you have been doing an excellent job on the 2-26 thread investigation! :) Second, today is graduation; it’s now time to take this investigation to the next level. :o 8-) Third, today is March 9—which is the two year anniversary of the amazing bull market rally that is still going, and which I related to God and the hoax a year ago in Update #4 (4-33). :shock: Fourth, speaking of update #4, that was my most detailed numerology post; and #4a was posted one year ago today (CA time), which was six months after 9-9-09. :geek: And fifth, speaking of numerology, it’s now time to start looking at how numerology unlocks and explains some of the hows of the hoax (in addition to explaining the when and why, which I have already discussed in great detail).
The next level means that we are now going to shift the focus from the ambulance picture (whether it was real or fake, etc) to whether or not some or all of the paramedics are in on the hoax. Did the actual paramedics pose for a staged ambulance shot before 6-25-09? Or did MJ use actors dressed like paramedics? Was the ambulance photo staged with the actual #71 LAFD ambulance, or another one that looks about the same inside? Would the real paramedics publicly deny the ambulance photo, if it was not them in the picture (and they were not in on the hoax)?
These and similar questions are now the focus of investigation. Yes, we have already discussed these things to some extent; but it has not been the focus before now. You may continue discussing the ambulance photo, if you want; and please keep that discussion in the proper thread {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053)}.
Of course the ambulance photo is part of the evidence related to the paramedics, so the photo will still be discussed somewhat in this thread; but try to remember the focus of discussion in this thread. When it’s time to graduate again, I will start another thread with the focus of who or what (if anything) went to the hospital on the stretcher in the ambulance. We might need to discuss this a little now, but it’s not the focus yet; so let’s see what we can establish about the paramedics, before we focus on that aspect.
In the previous thread, I mentioned that it’s good to have at least two or more strong evidences pointing to the same conclusion; and we now have at least four strong points, indicating that the ambulance photo is fake—even after some (including me) have tried to play unbeliever, and debunk whatever we can. Here are those four strong points, with links to some of the evidence. People are still welcome to try and debunk them if they can; but please read at least the information in the links below, before trying to debunk them.
#1. Ben’s slip: “Chris, and the other people that were there that day and the other d---- and uhhh, and uhhh ----”
{http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&start=350#p309886 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&start=350#p309886); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&start=600#p311109 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&start=600#p311109)}.
#2. In the video of the ambulance, the monitor/screen is clearly on {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o-yZt7yERk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o-yZt7yERk)}. In the photo, the monitor/screen is not on {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310867&#p310867 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310867&#p310867)}.
#3. The shadows on the red car in the video do not match the shadows on the red car in the photo {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310880&#p310880 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310880&#p310880); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310880&#p310901 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310880&#p310901)}.
#4. The paramedics did not recognize MJ; they said it looked like an old man, maybe a hospice patient {http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/27/paramedics-jackson-dead-when-we-arrived/ (http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/27/paramedics-jackson-dead-when-we-arrived/); http://www.tmz.com/2011/01/11/michael-jackson-doctor-conrad-murray-preliminary-hearing-trial-witness-propofol-death-week1/ (http://www.tmz.com/2011/01/11/michael-jackson-doctor-conrad-murray-preliminary-hearing-trial-witness-propofol-death-week1/)}. This report of the paramedics does not fit with the face we see in the ambulance photo. If the paramedics are in on the hoax, and what they said was scripted: then the ambulance photo is fake, one way or another. And if the paramedics are not in on the hoax, then what they said was true—and does not fit with what we see in the ambulance photo, which would still mean that it is fake {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309760&#p309760 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309760&#p309760)}. Either way, then (paramedics in on it or not): the photo is fake; so the only question is what method was used to make the phony photo.
The first three of these four points listed above indicate that the photo was planned and staged in advance, rather than merely editing MJ’s face into a photo that was actually taken through the ambulance window on 6-25-09. This is why I started our investigation process with the ambulance photo; now we know that it was planned and staged in advance, so we have a good platform upon which we can build our next level of investigation.
Please remember to use common sense, in addition to forensic investigation and raw data analysis. For example: if the ambulance photo was staged before 6-25-09, why bother bringing the ambulance to Carolwood Drive—just to take a photo of things inside the ambulance? Why not stage the photo elsewhere, and indoors, where there would be a very low risk of the wrong people seeing what is going on? Also keep in mind the goals of the hoax; common sense should tell us that the only ones in on the hoax are those who need to know about it, in order to accomplish the goals. Why would MJ spend tons of money—and greatly increase the risk of someone letting the cat out of the bag too soon—just to have dozens or hundreds of people in on the hoax, who don’t need to be in on it?
Finally, just like last time, I may play “DA” (devil's advocate)—and try to debunk things that are true, just to keep you on your toes! Enjoy the ride!!
-
Thanks for the new information TS.
There had to be a real ambulance at Carolwood Dve, to help start the illusion....
I don't believe the ambos are part of the deception....mainly because they are real ambos and swore on the bible...in court. If that didn't happen, then maybe I would change my mind about that. And the less people know, the better.
Isn't Chris Weiss a paramedic?? Maybe he had some connections in the industry, or
there was a real body, but just not Michaels..
-
One of the main things about the ambulance officers in these series of photos is that we never see their faces. They are always turned away from the camera. Also - between the series of photos their bodies barely, if at all, move.
If this really is a series of legitimate photos of ambo officers trying to rescue a dying person it is completely odd that their hand, arm and body positions barely seem like they move (eg. the ambo officer holding the breathing bag or whatever it is...his hand/arm seems like it hasn't moved in any of the photos..nor the other ambulance guy with his 1 hand :shock: on MJ's chest...more like almost his neck....it's not even moving up and down between the pics) however, parts of the background, reflections, interior move in relation to the officers. It is like the ambo officers are static and everything is moving around them....I won't even go into that swirling whirlpool above which the seated ambo officer is hovering...looks like he is about to be sucked into it any minute :lol:
If these were real photos of real ambulance officers in full view surely at LEAST ONE of the ambo officers would be captured looking at their patient in at least in ONE of the photos anyway???
I think they are hiding their faces for a reason...they don't want us to recognise which actors they are.....not yet anyway :lol: :lol: :lol:
-
I guess if you want to determine if it's the actual #71 ambulance or just one that looks almost like it we could start back with the cabinets that don't appear to match. The white/silver trim around the cabinet in the video is not seen in the ambulance photo.
Screen cap from video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMB5gfcVChg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMB5gfcVChg)
[attachment=1:27fsolv8]ambulance cabinet.jpg[/attachment:27fsolv8]
Crop from ambulance2 photo:
[attachment=0:27fsolv8]Ambulance2crop.jpg[/attachment:27fsolv8]
-
(http://www.bittenandbound.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/ambulance-arrives-at-hospital-with-michael-jackson.jpg)
(http://www.buzzchow.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/michael-jackson-hospital-385x386.jpg)
(http://www.cayman27.com.ky/app/webroot/files/t1home_michael_jackson_hospital_x17.jpg)
On these photos - MJ on the stretcher entering the hospital - we can se at least 2 paramedics in dark blue suits.... :?
And i guess Murray is there in the white T-shirt...
I think that all these footage was staged before and handed over to the press/television as the finished material. It was not filmed by CNN as far as I know... (I might be wrong)
They could have easily film it before June 25 and then send it to the media to publish. Nowadays, nobody bothers to verify the material, we can observe the copy-paste journalism in bloossom...
-
Thanks for the new information TS.
There had to be a real ambulance at Carolwood Dve, to help start the illusion....
Yes, if you mean on 6-25-09. However, my statement was referring to a staged photo before 6-25-09. Here is my statement again: "For example: if the ambulance photo was staged before 6-25-09, why bother bringing the ambulance to Carolwood Drive [before 6-25-09]—just to take a photo of things inside the ambulance?"
-
I do believe the ambulance photo was staged/taken before June 25th.
I think the reason there had to be an ambulance at Carolwood on June 25th was to help start the illusion as 2good2btrue said. I'm wondering if the ambulance was backing so slowly out of the drive way because it was waiting for the starline tourbus to drive by....witnesses!! As it was, the tourbus arrived probably on time to see the ambulance drive away, and the fire truck was still there. I know someone had pointed out in another thread that the tourbus number was 17...and it was parked right beside the firetruck momentarily in the video, showing 71 and 17, I still think that's weird. But, those in on the hoax would know that the people on the tourbus would undoubtedly have cameras/video cameras, providing further "proof" that something happened at Carolwood on June 25th.
The scene for the ambulance photo was set up and re-created, like it was actually happening right then and I don't think it's possible for the paramedics to NOT be in on it - they would have to be in my opinion. They could be genuine paramedics but almost everyone in L.A. wants to be an actor, right? LOL. So these guys sign a confidentiality agreement, to pose in the fake-in-some-way photo, and then later say at the prelim that they didn't recognize the patient as Michael, saying he looked like a hospice patient. If the prelim wasn't actually real, then they're "sworn" testimony won't matter, they won't get in trouble, right? I'm surprised that more people didn't catch on to that - the paramedics saying they didn't recognize MJ when you can clearly see in the photo that the patient does in fact resemble Michael.
-
(http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/452/ambulancearrivesathospi.jpg) (http://img198.imageshack.us/i/ambulancearrivesathospi.jpg/)
its incridible how this guy looks like MJ...
-
Thanks for the new information TS.
There had to be a real ambulance at Carolwood Dve, to help start the illusion....
Yes, if you mean on 6-25-09. However, my statement was referring to a staged photo before 6-25-09. Here is my statement again: "For example: if the ambulance photo was staged before 6-25-09, why bother bringing the ambulance to Carolwood Drive [before 6-25-09]—just to take a photo of things inside the ambulance?"
It would not make sense to take a chance and film it before out in the open,I have a belief that the DOME project has always played a bigger part in the hoax. Could this have been filmed in Culver studios before 6-25-09 ? The reason I bring up the Dome project is the only thing I ever heard in my life where people had to sign confidentiality agreements. Which could be why no one has let the cat out the bag.
-
If Michael had an ambulance at Neverland and that the game has been planned a long time, then chances of this photo has been taken yet when Michael lived at Neverland.
Also, the paramedics need not be actors. Michael has always worked with many of them in their shows, so maybe they could be friends.
For friendship and love Michael, they could not have declined to participate in the fun. I'm only confused about the trial.
They could have declared a false testimony in front of a judge? :?
-
(http://www.bittenandbound.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/ambulance-arrives-at-hospital-with-michael-jackson.jpg)
(http://www.buzzchow.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/michael-jackson-hospital-385x386.jpg)
(http://www.cayman27.com.ky/app/webroot/files/t1home_michael_jackson_hospital_x17.jpg)
On these photos - MJ on the stretcher entering the hospital - we can se at least 2 paramedics in dark blue suits.... :?
And i guess Murray is there in the white T-shirt...
I think that all these footage was staged before and handed over to the press/television as the finished material. It was not filmed by CNN as far as I know... (I might be wrong)
They could have easily film it before June 25 and then send it to the media to publish. Nowadays, nobody bothers to verify the material, we can observe the copy-paste journalism in bloossom...
VeryLittleSusie - You might be getting ahead of the game. The ambulances don't match in the 'arriving at the hospital' scenes. Look at the different rear doors and the yellow reflector behind the back wheel in the first photo -it isn't on the ambulance in the second photo. I saw this online somewhere and had been looking for it.
-
(http://www.bittenandbound.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/ambulance-arrives-at-hospital-with-michael-jackson.jpg)
(http://www.buzzchow.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/michael-jackson-hospital-385x386.jpg)
(http://www.cayman27.com.ky/app/webroot/files/t1home_michael_jackson_hospital_x17.jpg)
On these photos - MJ on the stretcher entering the hospital - we can se at least 2 paramedics in dark blue suits.... :?
And i guess Murray is there in the white T-shirt...
I think that all these footage was staged before and handed over to the press/television as the finished material. It was not filmed by CNN as far as I know... (I might be wrong)
They could have easily film it before June 25 and then send it to the media to publish. Nowadays, nobody bothers to verify the material, we can observe the copy-paste journalism in bloossom...
VeryLittleSusie - You might be getting ahead of the game. The ambulances don't match in the 'arriving at the hospital' scenes. Look at the different rear doors and the yellow reflector behind the back wheel in the first photo -it isn't on the ambulance in the second photo. I saw this online somewhere and had been looking for it.
While I do agree that the reflector is missing in the photo it is not the only difference. Look at the white striping across the side of the ambulance. They are also different as well as the coloring of the rear doors. Trying to debunk this, I would say that is caused by lighting and angle since you can see how the first and third pictures are much lighter than the second. So IMO it would be the angle of the sun hitting the ambulance.
As for why there would be an ambulance at Carolwood on 6/25, I agree that it would have to be there to give credibility to the hoax. I also believe that it could have been there and used as a diversionary tactic. While all eyes were focused on Carolwood and the events unfolding there, Michael was free from prying eyes to get away unnoticed.
If you watch the video from that day it does not resonate as an emergency situation. Everyone involved just seems too nonchalant , no sense of urgency at all.
So to sum this up, I would definately say that these scenes that we were shown were all filmed before 6/25. The paramedics were in on this and were probobaly actors or friends. Everything was planned down to the smallest detail.
Love and Blessings
-
It's probably just an optical illusion with the angles and everything but the ambulance in the "proof" photo looks longer to me than the one at the hospital.
[attachment=1:3vb4ipp7]ambulance_4_proof_pic.jpg[/attachment:3vb4ipp7]
[attachment=0:3vb4ipp7]ambulance-arrives-at-hospital-with-michael-jackson.jpg[/attachment:3vb4ipp7]
-
One of the main things about the ambulance officers in these series of photos is that we never see their faces. They are always turned away from the camera. Also - between the series of photos their bodies barely, if at all, move.
If this really is a series of legitimate photos of ambo officers trying to rescue a dying person it is completely odd that their hand, arm and body positions barely seem like they move (eg. the ambo officer holding the breathing bag or whatever it is...his hand/arm seems like it hasn't moved in any of the photos..nor the other ambulance guy with his 1 hand :shock: on MJ's chest...more like almost his neck....it's not even moving up and down between the pics) however, parts of the background, reflections, interior move in relation to the officers. It is like the ambo officers are static and everything is moving around them....I won't even go into that swirling whirlpool above which the seated ambo officer is hovering...looks like he is about to be sucked into it any minute :lol:
If these were real photos of real ambulance officers in full view surely at LEAST ONE of the ambo officers would be captured looking at their patient in at least in ONE of the photos anyway???
I think they are hiding their faces for a reason...they don't want us to recognise which actors they are.....not yet anyway :lol: :lol: :lol:
Yes LOL I agree, Adi!
It's soooo convenient that they would be seen on the street after June 25th.
That's why they turned away from the shot.
They were obviously either paid off or wanted to be envolved in the hoax in its entirety.
Which would be awesome and pretty bad ass by the way!
LOL! Yes we are in the twilight zone!
[youtube:3uhj4b6z]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnJSkN85vGc[/youtube:3uhj4b6z]
That would explain the swirl above the "EMT"
Hahaha.
REMEMBER
RESPECT
L.O.V.E
oV Peace
-
Also, in the hospital ambulance picture the "pinstripe" down the side looks like a two year old put it on whereas the stripes from the ambulance in this video are perfect (or they appear to be to me).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMB5gfcVChg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMB5gfcVChg)
Screen cap of pinstriping on side of ambulance:
[attachment=0:l25dfndp]ambulance pinstripe1.jpg[/attachment:l25dfndp]
-
It seem like this has all became a show made up by TS. I smell this is just a big show to entertain himself. Anyway I've never given a damn on it, either now, I just came upon the thread. It's without any logic. I wish people will understand what Michael says: Think by yourself.
-
And maybe this light/reflector on ambulance from this video looks different...not as flat?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuXRaJFdmKU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuXRaJFdmKU)
[attachment=0:1hfv3y3c]ambulance light1.jpg[/attachment:1hfv3y3c]
-
Yes the pic.from inside the ambulance could have been staged before June/25 ,using for it a studio.The using of a real ambulance on 6/25 gives more credibility to the hoax because of the eye witnesses outside Carolwood and so begins the illusion . ;) As to the paramedics,IMO they must be in it, but who knows.... :?:
-
TS_comments wrote:
2good2btrue wrote:
Thanks for the new information TS.
There had to be a real ambulance at Carolwood Dve, to help start the illusion....
Yes, if you mean on 6-25-09. However, my statement was referring to a staged photo before 6-25-09. Here is my statement again: "For example: if the ambulance photo was staged before 6-25-09, why bother bringing the ambulance to Carolwood Drive [before 6-25-09]—just to take a photo of things inside the ambulance?"
that the staging of the paparazzi allegedly taking that picture, is really the only proof that Micahel died, no one has said with the exception of Karen Faye who saw the corpse of Michael
-
In regards to the medics being real, that is a question I've always had. Oh how I wish I lived out there so I could go and investigate personally while I'm off work!! I've wondered if anyone was able to go to the station house and just look at the medics, try to find some traits we find in the pics.
Anyhow, this seems to have become the TS leadership place to go..so I'm saying thank you for pushing us into different directions while we await the hard times ahead with the trial.
I'm reading the Trials of Michael Jackson right now and am in SHOCK as to the life Michael must've lived and am also getting a lot of new perspective as to perhaps what is going on NOW!
Thanks for your info and help..and Trusting you with your good faith :))
-
In regards to the medics being real, that is a question I've always had. Oh how I wish I lived out there so I could go and investigate personally while I'm off work!! I've wondered if anyone was able to go to the station house and just look at the medics, try to find some traits we find in the pics.
Anyhow, this seems to have become the TS leadership place to go..so I'm saying thank you for pushing us into different directions while we await the hard times ahead with the trial.
I'm reading the Trials of Michael Jackson right now and am in SHOCK as to the life Michael must've lived and am also getting a lot of new perspective as to perhaps what is going on NOW!
Thanks for your info and help..and Trusting you with your good faith :))
Also, I've read where there are two entrances to Carolwood, and perhaps there were two ambulances that day. One at each entrances. Maybe that's why the first one pulled out so slowly, to make sure the other was gone. I also read where the other hospital there had the roads blocked off at the same time. Maybe the other amb. went there? Maybe the pics are valid and that was the "dummy" amb. to throw the paps off the other. They were shopped for US to be thrown off.
Also, IS that Murray in the pic at the entrance of the hosp. because it don't look like him to me as any of the people? He's very tall and I think would be taller than that man in white, which is closer to the camera and would even be taller than the others. It don't look to me as Murray was there. Maybe he was in the amb.. the other one.
I don't know if this is too far off this "new thread" we are told to follow, but I wanted to get these questions in here before I forgot. :)))
-
Hi guys,
I'm not an avid reader of TS' posts (I truly apologize for that :oops: ) so maybe I do not understand the value of this post, but my question is what's the use of trying to figure this all out? I thought that, now we are (hopefully) getting closer to a possible bam, there will be more important reasons to learn about this hoax. I feel that this post of TS does not add any important information, except the fact his dead really was fake. But we came to that conclusion a long time ago right? I haven't post much lately because I had the feeling we were running around in circles and I get that same feeling once again with this particular post. I hope someone can explain to me what's the reason for this post, what kind of information in it will help us to UNDERSTAND the hoax? Hugs
-
the picture of the ambulance can not see the face of the paramedics, .. which he declared in court may be real or not paramedics
-
(http://www.fungiftideas.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Graduation.jpg)
First of all, congratulations to everyone—you have been doing an excellent job on the 2-26 thread investigation! <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> Second, today is graduation; it’s now time to take this investigation to the next level. <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> Third, today is March 9—which is the two year anniversary of the amazing bull market rally that is still going, and which I related to God and the hoax a year ago in Update #4 (4-33). <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> Fourth, speaking of update #4, that was my most detailed numerology post; and #4a was posted one year ago today (CA time), which was six months after 9-9-09. <!-- s:geek: -->:geek:<!-- s:geek: --> And fifth, speaking of numerology, it’s now time to start looking at how numerology unlocks and explains some of the hows of the hoax (in addition to explaining the when and why, which I have already discussed in great detail).
The next level means that we are now going to shift the focus from the ambulance picture (whether it was real or fake, etc) to whether or not some or all of the paramedics are in on the hoax. Did the actual paramedics pose for a staged ambulance shot before 6-25-09? Or did MJ use actors dressed like paramedics? Was the ambulance photo staged with the actual #71 LAFD ambulance, or another one that looks about the same inside? Would the real paramedics publicly deny the ambulance photo, if it was not them in the picture (and they were not in on the hoax)?
These and similar questions are now the focus of investigation. Yes, we have already discussed these things to some extent; but it has not been the focus before now. You may continue discussing the ambulance photo, if you want; and please keep that discussion in the proper thread {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053)}.
Of course the ambulance photo is part of the evidence related to the paramedics, so the photo will still be discussed somewhat in this thread; but try to remember the focus of discussion in this thread. When it’s time to graduate again, I will start another thread with the focus of who or what (if anything) went to the hospital on the stretcher in the ambulance. We might need to discuss this a little now, but it’s not the focus yet; so let’s see what we can establish about the paramedics, before we focus on that aspect.
In the previous thread, I mentioned that it’s good to have at least two or more strong evidences pointing to the same conclusion; and we now have at least four strong points, indicating that the ambulance photo is fake—even after some (including me) have tried to play unbeliever, and debunk whatever we can. Here are those four strong points, with links to some of the evidence. People are still welcome to try and debunk them if they can; but please read at least the information in the links below, before trying to debunk them.
#1. Ben’s slip: “Chris, and the other people that were there that day and the other d---- and uhhh, and uhhh ----”
{http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&start=350#p309886 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&start=350#p309886); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&start=600#p311109 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&start=600#p311109)}.
#2. In the video of the ambulance, the monitor/screen is clearly on {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o-yZt7yERk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o-yZt7yERk)}. In the photo, the monitor/screen is not on {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310867&#p310867 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310867&#p310867)}.
#3. The shadows on the red car in the video do not match the shadows on the red car in the photo {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310880&#p310880 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310880&#p310880); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310880&#p310901 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310880&#p310901)}.
#4. The paramedics did not recognize MJ; they said it looked like an old man, maybe a hospice patient {http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/27/paramedics-jackson-dead-when-we-arrived/ (http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/27/paramedics-jackson-dead-when-we-arrived/); http://www.tmz.com/2011/01/11/michael-jackson-doctor-conrad-murray-preliminary-hearing-trial-witness-propofol-death-week1/ (http://www.tmz.com/2011/01/11/michael-jackson-doctor-conrad-murray-preliminary-hearing-trial-witness-propofol-death-week1/)}. This report of the paramedics does not fit with the face we see in the ambulance photo. If the paramedics are in on the hoax, and what they said was scripted: then the ambulance photo is fake, one way or another. And if the paramedics are not in on the hoax, then what they said was true—and does not fit with what we see in the ambulance photo, which would still mean that it is fake {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309760&#p309760 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309760&#p309760)}. Either way, then (paramedics in on it or not): the photo is fake; so the only question is what method was used to make the phony photo.
The first three of these four points listed above indicate that the photo was planned and staged in advance, rather than merely editing MJ’s face into a photo that was actually taken through the ambulance window on 6-25-09. This is why I started our investigation process with the ambulance photo; now we know that it was planned and staged in advance, so we have a good platform upon which we can build our next level of investigation.
Please remember to use common sense, in addition to forensic investigation and raw data analysis. For example: if the ambulance photo was staged before 6-25-09, why bother bringing the ambulance to Carolwood Drive—just to take a photo of things inside the ambulance? Why not stage the photo elsewhere, and indoors, where there would be a very low risk of the wrong people seeing what is going on? Also keep in mind the goals of the hoax; common sense should tell us that the only ones in on the hoax are those who need to know about it, in order to accomplish the goals. Why would MJ spend tons of money—and greatly increase the risk of someone letting the cat out of the bag too soon—just to have dozens or hundreds of people in on the hoax, who don’t need to be in on it?
Finally, just like last time, I may play “DA” (devil's advocate)—and try to debunk things that are true, just to keep you on your toes! Enjoy the ride!!
Thank you for the next level. Right on time! <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
[youtube:2t24qanx]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgD4COfhrLU&feature=related[/youtube:2t24qanx]
I enlarged some text above that is in favor of my thinking on this subject so far. I am adding this video above as evidence. I believe that this show has clues in it. The fire captain is very suspect in my book. He seems to be acting. I think he is another key person. He would be the some of the paramedics in on it. I believe the picture was indeed shot on a different day, in a different ambulance and the paramedics in that fake picture are actors dressed in costume. <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->
Side note: Everything that has been released to the public regarding this investigation is also biased and is meant to taint the public's opinion regarding Murray's innocence or guilt. Just like the media did to Michael in 1993 and 2005.
In the video above Ben is again talking about that day and the scene of the guy (shot through the gate) standing from a crouching position is once again being shown. Why that part again? I think there is a reason for that and it is to draw attention to that guy. Perhaps to get people wondering who the heck was that?
I do not believe the real paramedics (the ones that showed up that day and testified in court) would publicly deny the picture because of this:
<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310112#p310112 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310112#p310112)<!-- l -->
LAFD Capt. recalls Michael Jackson (MJ) events on June 25, 2009
[youtube:2t24qanx]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggewNtwvHJ4&feature=related[/youtube:2t24qanx]
<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309781#p309781 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309781#p309781)<!-- l -->
In this video the Captain is so precise on the time the 911 call was made. He even says it down to the seconds, lol
(http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/452/ambulancearrivesathospi.jpg) (http://img198.imageshack.us/i/ambulancearrivesathospi.jpg/)
its incridible how this guy looks like MJ...
I agree, very suspect. I noticed that before when we were discussing the ambulance picture in TIAI 2/26 thread. Thank you for circling the guy.
<!-- m -->http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2 ... spita.html (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/01/michael-jackson-hearing-paparazzi-fans-hampered-paramedics-from-getting-stricken-pop-star-to-hospita.html)<!-- m -->
Michael Jackson hearing: Paparazzi, fans hampered paramedics from getting stricken pop star to hospital
January 6, 2011 | 10:58 am
A paramedic who tried in vain to save Michael Jackson’s life testified Thursday that an unruly crowd of paparazzi and tourists outside the pop star’s home hampered efforts to get to the hospital recalled Los Angeles City Fire Department paramedic Richard“It’s a circus out there. It’s unbelievable,”Richard Senneff of the scene outside Jackson’s Holmby Hills mansion June 25, 2009.
The witness testified on the second day of testimony at a hearing to determine whether there is enough evidence to try Dr. Conrad Murray for involuntary manslaughter.
Senneff said that the ambulance driver had trouble navigating away from the residence because of a throng that included passengers of a tour bus and photographers with “big cameras, little cameras, video cameras, still cameras.”
At one point, a man with a video camera ran alongside the ambulance holding a camera with a large lens against the window. “It just seemed wrong,” he said. Under questioning by a defense lawyer, Senneff said Murray wanted to put a “central line” to restart Jackson’s heart, but that medics did not have equipment or training to do so.
He said the singer did not respond to two rounds of drugs to revive him and hospital officials told him over the radio to “call” Jackson’s death, but that neither he nor Murray wanted to do so. “I said, 'Be advised, this is a very high-profile VIP,' ” Senneff said.
u]. “I said, 'Be advised, this is a very high-profile VIP,' ” Senneff said.[/size]
The 50-year-old singer was pronounced dead at UCLA Medical Center. Senneff said rescue workers had gone “above and beyond” the call of duty in the field not because Jackson was a celebrity, but “because it was someone’s son.” Katherine Jackson, the singer’s mother, listened intently in the courtroom gallery. Judge Michael Pastor also heard from a second paramedic who, like Senneff, said that Murray initially claimed he had not given his patient any medication.
Martin Blount said the denial struck him as odd because he saw a hypodermic needle and three bottles of lidocaine in the room. Murray, he said, “scooped up” the bottles and placed them in a bag before they left for the hospital. “Did you ever see those bottles again,” Deputy Dist. Atty. David Walgren asked. “No, sir,” Blount replied. Murray, 57, has pleaded not guilty.
Prosecutors accuse Murray of an “extreme deviation” from the standard of medical care by, among other things, giving Jackson the surgical anesthetic propofol to treat insomnia.
I am posting this article to disprove the hoax regarding the theory/reason why the ambulance drove backwards and slowly. Paramedic Senneff gives the reason for that. Blame it on the fans and paps why they couldn't save Michael, shifting blame onto fans and paps will supposedly relieve him from any harm/blame to the King of Pop. <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> He also gives credibility to Ben's pic by saying "At one point, a man with a video camera ran alongside the ambulance holding a camera with a large lens against the window."
I am also posting some questions that can be either pro hoax or against depending how the questions are answered.
Q-What would be considered going above and beyond the call of duty?
Q-Why didn't he (Senneff) want to call the time of death either even though the hospital told him to do so?
Q-How many paramedics were actually in that ambulance?
According to Senneff's testimony there was a driver, himself, and Blount. So that is 3 but only two testified?
Another point I want to add to this is that IF Michael/the patient was already DOA when the paramedics got to the house and they tried to do CPR there for a good amount of time; the ambulance would not need to be in a hurry when leaving because the patient is already gone.
To the airport! lol
<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309040#p309040 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309040#p309040)<!-- l -->
-
To start with something pretty basic, I'd like to know if the paramedics that gave evidence at the prelim looked anything like the ones we see in the ambulance pic. Without their faces I realise that's hard, but if the court ones happened to be obviously very different e.g. big burly black men, then that would help! Sinderella, if you're around, I have it in my mind that you knew someone who was in court who was giving you the info that you were so diligently posting for us (but I may have dreamed that!). Could they, or anyone else help us out here?
I'd also like to clarify how many paramedics there were. I always thought there was just the two until someone here said there were three. Only two gave evidence at the prelim.
Well that'll do for starters!
-
To start with something pretty basic, I'd like to know if the paramedics that gave evidence at the prelim looked anything like the ones we see in the ambulance pic. Without their faces I realise that's hard, but if the court ones happened to be obviously very different e.g. big burly black men, then that would help! Sinderella, if you're around, I have it in my mind that you knew someone who was in court who was giving you the info that you were so diligently posting for us (but I may have dreamed that!). Could they, or anyone else help us out here?
I'd also like to clarify how many paramedics there were. I always thought there was just the two until someone here said there were three. Only two gave evidence at the prelim.
Well that'll do for starters!
AND A DOCTOR.... No one mentions MURRAY was also in there and MURRAY took presidence being a physican, correct, as the tape eluded to of 911. a
-
ur welcome Im_convincedmjalive,
i did some comparisions with the paramedics on UCLA (the photo that i circled "MJ")
take a look on MJ hair on this photo
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_8WzVbskew5o/SMcqAa4FWmI/AAAAAAAAAu0/ih6zL8DkgWQ/s400/cabelo+curto.jpg)
with sunglasses..take a look on his body
(http://michaeljoejacksonvivo.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/memo_michael_jackson_01_tra.jpg)
now take a good look again on the paramedic that i circled
(http://www.cayman27.com.ky/app/webroot/files/t1home_michael_jackson_hospital_x17.jpg)
the hair, the body and even the glasses are almost identical..Who would notice a paramedic when everyone thought that MJ was lying on the stretcher "dead"? 8-)
what do u think , TS :?: :?:
-
(http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/452/ambulancearrivesathospi.jpg) (http://img198.imageshack.us/i/ambulancearrivesathospi.jpg/)
its incredible how this guy looks like MJ...
It's funny that you posted this.....
I remember thinking this exact thing the first time I saw the photo. I told a friend it would seem like Michael to play the part of his own paramedic on June 25. Someone here wrote that Michael has the world so convinced he's dead, he could walk around and nobody would notice. I wonder if that could really happen?
Anyways......great post, thank you!
Have a wonderful day!
Blessings Always!
-
(http://www.bittenandbound.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/ambulance-arrives-at-hospital-with-michael-jackson.jpg)
(http://www.buzzchow.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/michael-jackson-hospital-385x386.jpg)
(http://www.cayman27.com.ky/app/webroot/files/t1home_michael_jackson_hospital_x17.jpg)
On these photos - MJ on the stretcher entering the hospital - we can se at least 2 paramedics in dark blue suits.... :?
And i guess Murray is there in the white T-shirt...
I think that all these footage was staged before and handed over to the press/television as the finished material. It was not filmed by CNN as far as I know... (I might be wrong)
They could have easily film it before June 25 and then send it to the media to publish. Nowadays, nobody bothers to verify the material, we can observe the copy-paste journalism in bloossom...
VeryLittleSusie - You might be getting ahead of the game. The ambulances don't match in the 'arriving at the hospital' scenes. Look at the different rear doors and the yellow reflector behind the back wheel in the first photo -it isn't on the ambulance in the second photo. I saw this online somewhere and had been looking for it.
First off I just wanted to say I've been reading along everyday, but haven't commented yet!! After seeing this today, I have to say I don't agree with you! I can see the reflector in every picture. It is not yellow but a darker red if you look carefully! Also the back doors are still striped, just washed out by bright light it looks to me like. So these reasons alone don't make them different in my opinion!
-
The next level means that we are now going to shift the focus from the ambulance picture (whether it was real or fake, etc) to whether or not some or all of the paramedics are in on the hoax.
Did the actual paramedics pose for a staged ambulance shot before 6-25-09? Or did MJ use actors dressed like paramedics?
How is anyone supossed to know that? Is it relevant?, why?. May be those pramedics don´t even exist on the 1st place. They can be taken from another film or photo and placed in to the scene.
Was the ambulance photo staged with the actual #71 LAFD ambulance, or another one that looks about the same inside?
If the actual #71 is the one Tristan showed, the interiors photo/video did not match 100%.
Could have been the same ambulance but altered (by photoshop) for the final puplished pic.
Would the real paramedics publicly deny the ambulance photo, if it was not them in the picture (and they were not in on the hoax)?
In order to answer to that question we may be need to "find" who the "real" paramedics were.
Please remember to use common sense, in addition to forensic investigation and raw data analysis. For example: if the ambulance photo was staged before 6-25-09, why bother bringing the ambulance to Carolwood Drive—just to take a photo of things inside the ambulance?
To atract attention to that spot, Carolwood Drive. May be in the mean time people were focusing in the on going circus, MJ could have been just vanishing sneaking through the backdoor or being somewhere else already.
Why not stage the photo elsewhere, and indoors, where there would be a very low risk of the wrong people seeing what is going on?
That ambo photo was not taken that day (we supose). What was shown in the video is a dramatization.
Also keep in mind the goals of the hoax
Oh! have we come to a conclusion of what are the goals of the hoax?
common sense should tell us that the only ones in on the hoax are those who need to know about it, in order to accomplish the goals. Why would MJ spend tons of money—and greatly increase the risk of someone letting the cat out of the bag too soon—just to have dozens or hundreds of people in on the hoax, who don’t need to be in on it?
As I see it. We are the ones making the hoax as we talk. We don´t need to be in it but accidentally we are. This hoax evolves as our theories do. The 1st seed was planted (either by MJ and/or his team) and grew withing our imagination in one way or the other.
Back to the goals of the hoax, depends on the perspective we take and proyect towards who. I still don´t know the reasons but can see the "how come".
-
It's probably just an optical illusion with the angles and everything but the ambulance in the "proof" photo looks longer to me than the one at the hospital.
[attachment=1:kwy6yh4w]ambulance_4_proof_pic.jpg[/attachment:kwy6yh4w]
[attachment=0:kwy6yh4w]ambulance-arrives-at-hospital-with-michael-jackson.jpg[/attachment:kwy6yh4w]
Yes, I see what you mean, but it probably has to do with top picture being "stretched out" but not really longer! However I did "see" something that is possibly different and that is the rear upper side compartment door. Look at the seam of the door, it goes in front of the word Fire on the bottom pic, but appears to go through the letters/words on the top one. Make sense? I'm I seeing things? Is there a better clearer pic of the top abulance to show where the seam is? Never mind after looking again I think I can see the seam in the same place!! Oh well, I'm trying to find something different!! :lol:
I don't know why the pics didn't copy to my post since I used the quote button?? I will try to add the pics here:
Well, that didn't work either! Help! I've been here over a year and still don't know my way around in how to post stuff! So just go back to page one and look for mdc's post it will have the two pics I'm talking about! Sorry!!
-
Thanks for the new information TS.
There had to be a real ambulance at Carolwood Dve, to help start the illusion....
I don't believe the ambos are part of the deception....mainly because they are real ambos and swore on the bible...in court. If that didn't happen, then maybe I would change my mind about that. And the less people know, the better.
Isn't Chris Weiss a paramedic?? Maybe he had some connections in the industry, or
there was a real body, but just not Michaels..
Here is a VanityFair article that talks about Chris:
http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/featu ... rrentPage= (http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2009/07/michael-jackson-photo200907?currentPage=)
It's a great article...enjoy!
Blessings!
-
(http://www.bittenandbound.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/ambulance-arrives-at-hospital-with-michael-jackson.jpg)
(http://www.buzzchow.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/michael-jackson-hospital-385x386.jpg)
(http://www.cayman27.com.ky/app/webroot/files/t1home_michael_jackson_hospital_x17.jpg)
.
In every pic the ambos are different. Either the white paint (thicker lines or broader), the doors, the text on them.
The people entering the hospital. I see extra heads from pic to pic :lol:
-
Well it's nice to know that these close examinations with an insider to guide us are going to continue into the future for a while at least, while we await the trial. Thanks Im_convincedmjalive for that documentary reinactment video. I wonder who they had acting the part for MJ. He looks very close to the real thing. Even there MJ is clearly not looking like a frail sick old man. Do you know what date that was televised? I'm thinking too that MJ could be behind the making of it. He is fully clothed not naked as has been reported. What amazes me is that the professional investigators don't even seem to think hoax with all the fishy things that don't add up. Even commenters on TMZ seem to be so clueless after all this time. What's wrong with these people.
In the hospital ambulance pics, I'm thinking the right paramedic is black (too distant and hard to see MJ in him) and yet the two in the still pic are clearly both white. Murray does seem too short but he is leaning forward. In the courtroom he is a head taller than the others, though maybe paramedics tend to be taller IDK. To me the 2 ambulances seem the same, just the lighting different (flash or not). My thoughts are that in the famous pic and hospital amb pic, the EMT are all actors. There's just no way anyone would not recognize MJ. The ones giving testimony to officials are clearly not telling the truth and I think have all signed confidentiality clauses for the hoax. Swearing on the Bible means nothing in this hoax clearly, since it is "acting". (There's no way of getting around it, lots of pure lies but for unkown just cause.) There were 2 ambulances at the house, one backing out and one still visible inside the yard. Even if one of them had unsuspecting EMT, they would have wondered what the other one was for and been suspicious, plus all the other wacky wrong things. I think too the tour bus 17 (71 :o ) seems like the timing was included for witnesses and their cameras, but the bus driver needed not be knowing of the hoax.
-
(http://www.bittenandbound.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/ambulance-arrives-at-hospital-with-michael-jackson.jpg)
(http://www.buzzchow.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/michael-jackson-hospital-385x386.jpg)
(http://www.cayman27.com.ky/app/webroot/files/t1home_michael_jackson_hospital_x17.jpg)
.
In every pic the ambos are different. Either the white paint (thicker lines or broader), the doors, the text on them.
The people entering the hospital. I see extra heads from pic to pic :lol:
In every pic there are differences, I just don't think those differences show it is a different ambo! The first pic shows 9 people, brightly reflecting reflector at the bottom corner, a washed out back door with stripes, and the letters PAR showing in a faint redish color which I'm going to guess has to do with the red paint on the ambo reflecting onto the white letters! And I see three white stripes down the side. Second pic has 8 people showing because number 9 is out of sight inside the building already! The door and side stripes and reflector are as they should be, since there is no bright light to reflect or wash out anything! Pic three has all 9 people again as you can barely see # 9's leg in the left side of the pic. Now the bright light is back and the doors are washed out again so bad this time you can't even see the PAR letters on the door and the small pin stripe on the side is blended with the wide stripe to look like one, and the corner reflector is reflecting yellow again. So maybe I miss understood, and your weren't saying all of these pics are of a different ambo but these three are different than another ambo pic?
-
Here we take our hats down if we want to honor somebody.
LOL - TS_comments, it's understood anyway, txs.
Just that the ambulance subject is by far not finished ;)
The SUV is a good key, isn't it?
Paramedics
So for the paramedics we have these 4 musketeers since June 2009:
Mark John Kenny Jeff
[attachment=0:1poowntk]Crew.jpg[/attachment:1poowntk]
and since Jan 2011 we have 3 newbies:
Richard Senneff Firefighter, Paramedic, EMT court Jan 5, 2011
Martin Blount Firefighter 20 yrs. Paramedic 11 yrs, (Driver) court Jan 6, 2011
and
Captain Steve Ruda (as seen in the testimony video posted above.)
Now who's who and who are the true ones?
Some members of the board did follow the testimonials in court live - they should be able to identify who's who.
Who are they working for? LAFD
Los Angeles Fire Department(LAFD) currently consists of 106 firestations (firestation 71 belonging to batallion 9) with 3,594 uniformed staff and 346 non-sworn support.
Participation of LAFD in movies
LAFD produced their own movies back in 1932:
[youtube:1poowntk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-EV6TuWr6E[/youtube:1poowntk]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-EV6TuWr6E
and in 1949:
http://www.archive.org/details/YourFire1949
http://www.archive.org/details/YourFire1949_2
and this in 2005 and 2009 on their work (some graphic):
[youtube:1poowntk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEz5PMKggSY[/youtube:1poowntk]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEz5PMKggSY
[youtube:1poowntk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPAXuUaxca8[/youtube:1poowntk]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPAXuUaxca8
and participated not only in this short film (2nd place short film for PahNation film fest for Hollywood 09' )
[youtube:1poowntk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHXWA5DVl04[/youtube:1poowntk]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHXWA5DVl04
but also in:
Media depictions
* (1974 - 1974) Firehouse, starring James Drury.
* (1981–1982) Code Red, starring Lorne Greene
* (1999 - 1999) Rescue 77
* (2008 - 2008) Quarantine, LAFD as the "Los Angeles Fire Rescue".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_City_Fire_Department
So LAFD do have quite a long tradition in contributing to movies.
LAFD backstage activities
Hollywood needs LAFD always sur scène when they do their filming just in case the special effects would get out of control.
Hollywood and paramedics?
Films about paramedics? Plenty, plus TV shows.
Actors giving a paramedic? Many.
Photographers? Chris Weiss, the photographer was said to have an EMT license.
No proof, just an article.
Handing the baton to the next one.
Not a good time for giving a snow-white. ;)
Keep the faith, no reason to get lost now.
Blessings to all.
-
(http://www.bittenandbound.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/ambulance-arrives-at-hospital-with-michael-jackson.jpg)
(http://www.buzzchow.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/michael-jackson-hospital-385x386.jpg)
(http://www.cayman27.com.ky/app/webroot/files/t1home_michael_jackson_hospital_x17.jpg)
.
In every pic the ambos are different. Either the white paint (thicker lines or broader), the doors, the text on them.
The people entering the hospital. I see extra heads from pic to pic :lol:
In every pic there are differences, I just don't think those differences show it is a different ambo! The first pic shows 9 people, brightly reflecting reflector at the bottom corner, a washed out back door with stripes, and the letters PAR showing in a faint redish color which I'm going to guess has to do with the red paint on the ambo reflecting onto the white letters! And I see three white stripes down the side. Second pic has 8 people showing because number 9 is out of sight inside the building already! The door and side stripes and reflector are as they should be, since there is no bright light to reflect or wash out anything! Pic three has all 9 people again as you can barely see # 9's leg in the left side of the pic. Now the bright light is back and the doors are washed out again so bad this time you can't even see the PAR letters on the door and the small pin stripe on the side is blended with the wide stripe to look like one, and the corner reflector is reflecting yellow again. So maybe I miss understood, and your weren't saying all of these pics are of a different ambo but these three are different than another ambo pic?
I mean that there is 1(one) ambo and that ambo has been shopped/modified so we get "the same" ambo but with clear differnces among them.
-
Paramedics
So for the paramedics we have these 4 musketeers since June 2009:
Mark John Kenny Jeff
[attachment=0:3nvseawv]Crew.jpg[/attachment:3nvseawv]
.
1st time I see the 4 musketeers
-
What happened at UCLA could have been a "staged event" as well... in the sense of a diversion. So a theory could be that the people at UCLA were told a story about the fake body and explained that it was all done on purpose in order to divert the media's attention from the real place where the (supposedly) real body was being brought to. They emphasize the fact that it is a high profile, that the CIA is in on it and I bet that the people would not talk and hence a lot of people would not be in on the hoax. I still have in mind Jermaine's slip-up about the airport and be it intentional or not it is certainly an important clue. So Michael in disguise as a paramedic doesn't work i think and i find it a little too dangerous because he could have been recognized and it would have ruined the hoax.
We came to the conclusion that the ambulance picture is fake and was shot prior to June 25, so the fact that we don't see the paramedics' faces is certainly done on purpose as well and for a specific reason i presume...but i'm not sure which one. My first thought was that they're actors and that their faces are hidden because the people working at the LAFD would not recognize them.
-
What happened at UCLA could have been a "staged event" as well... in the sense of a diversion. So a theory could be that the people at UCLA were told a story about the fake body and explained that it was all done on purpose in order to divert the media's attention from the real place where the (supposedly) real body was being brought to. They emphasize the fact that it is a high profile, that the CIA is in on it and I bet that the people would not talk and hence a lot of people would not be in on the hoax. I still have in mind Jermaine's slip-up about the airport and be it intentional or not it is certainly an important clue. So Michael in disguise as a paramedic doesn't work i think and i find it a little too dangerous because he could have been recognized and it would have ruined the hoax.
We came to the conclusion that the ambulance picture is fake and was shot prior to June 25, so the fact that we don't see the paramedics' faces is certainly done on purpose as well and for a specific reason i presume...but i'm not sure which one. My first thought was that they're actors and that their faces are hidden because the people working at the LAFD would not recognize them.
Great thought in your first part there sarahli, but why would Dr Cooper or any other from UCLA need to appear in court ?I like your idea but can't combine the ucla being fooled into thinking they're taking part in a "diversion" and yet having their own ER doc testifying at the prelim.
-
The ambulance is the same on all 3 pics, it's simply reflection that makes it look different.
The paramedics must be in on the hoax, question is if it really are paramedics that responded to a real 911 call, or actors that arrived on cue. Are we sure the 911 call is real anyway? It doesn't have to be I think. I also think you are not allowed to call 911 for a fake emergency. I know that you get in trouble here in Holland for placing a fake call. Maybe he got a deal there, but it never made much sense to me. If the 911 call was real, real paramedics would have been sent. If the guy taking the call really had no idea, he could have sent any ambulance and any paramedic. If he would have sent paramedics that didn't have a clue, they would arrive at a house without a patient and it seems too risky to get them on board, sign contracts in those few minutes. Unless of course there really was a dead guy and the real paramedics were sent though the other gate to Cedar's and were told another ambulance with a dummy would be sent through the front gate as a distraction for the media. This doesn't make sense either, because the EMT's would absolutely have scratched themselves behind the ears as of why there was another fake ambulance with dummy and paramedics ready to go, while this was an emergency. It's too surreal.
The ambulance picture was taken 'the other day' either at Carolwood, or at Culvers, there is no way we can figure that out. Culver sounds logical to me, less risk indeed. I think the 911 call was fake to begin with. The guy taking the call in on the hoax? Yes in that case he is, but as far as I'm concerned it could be MJ himself doing one of his voices. The paramedics on the picture and in the ambulance on June 25 (assuming the same paramedics were on both scenes) are probably actors that were signed for the Dome Project. Friends? Possible, but recalling how many times Mike's trust has been damaged and the fact that he said himself that he could count his real real real friends on one hand, I would go for signed deals. There is probably a group of actors signed which he 'recycles' because I have seen the same faces in different roles more than once. That is probably also why we don't see the faces of the paramedics in the ambulance.
The ambulance really went to UCLA so I think those pictures posted above are really made June 25. There is always a risk a pap or fan with camera would follow the ambulance, so they had to go to the hospital. The department were they arrived was closed down, so only a few people from UCLA would have to be in, maybe just one. It's MJ, the staff could have been told it was closed because of privacy or security reasons etc.
That might sound as if many people need to be in on it, but not necessarily... 3 paramedics (actors) under contract, and there are probably some more (Murray girlfriends, people at the funeral etc.). We also have the dancers who could play roles as well, they are still under contract to this day. UCLA might have a new department sponsored and just one or two key people need to be in the know.
I wouldn't assume Mike would trust anyone besides some of the 'true blue'. It's too risky not to work with strangling contracts here. Everyone on here might say they would do it without needing to sign a contract because they would keep their mouths shut, but just look at the twists of faith and beliefs on this forum, where the majority has his best interest in mind. I know we here are still insecure on a lot of things, but I don't think anyone who plays a role in this knows the complete story, with the exception of some kye people. Human nature makes it impossible imo not to work with contracts. Which is sad, but true. Also, look at what some have to go through, like Kenny, Murray, Jermaine and even Katherine, who all have been slandered on the net. I don't think he needed his mom under contract though, but I wouldn't be surprised if he let everyone sign something. I know I would. I agree only the ones necessary are in on the hoax, but you simply can't pull this off with just 5 people, the project is too big.
@TS Thanks for the diploma man, how many more before we receive our master? :lol:
Other than that you posted your post on 3/9 at 3:33, I don't see where numerology comes in here, could you please enlighten us?
-
i think the paramedics who responded "that" day were the real deal.They got there and found a "hospice patient" a "frail old man" and did not know it was MJ until it was pointed out to them.They testified to this in court, under oath. They possibly don't speak out on the ambulance picture because of hipaa regulations?
Who am i kidding, i'm lost here...
-
Hi guys,
I'm not an avid reader of TS' posts (I truly apologize for that :oops: ) so maybe I do not understand the value of his post, but my question is what's the use of trying to figure this all out? I thought that, now we are (hopefully) getting closer to a possible bam, there will be more important reasons to learn about this hoax. I feel that this post of TS does not add any important information, except the fact Michaels death really was fake and staged. But we came to that conclusion a long time ago right? I haven't post much lately because I had the feeling we were running around in circles and I get that same feeling once again with this particular post. I hope someone can explain to me what's the reason for this post, what kind of information in it will help us to UNDERSTAND the reasons of the hoax? Hugs
I must have asked a really stupid question, because noone took the time to give me a (short) answer. I know I do not belong to the group of regular posters, but I'm a bit disappointed and I feel ignored. We can continue to repeat the same old stuff again and again but my question is: what's the use of it and aren't there much more important things to learn whether it is or isn't the same ambulance? Please fill me in!
-
Hi guys,
I'm not an avid reader of TS' posts (I truly apologize for that :oops: ) so maybe I do not understand the value of his post, but my question is what's the use of trying to figure this all out? I thought that, now we are (hopefully) getting closer to a possible bam, there will be more important reasons to learn about this hoax. I feel that this post of TS does not add any important information, except the fact Michaels death really was fake and staged. But we came to that conclusion a long time ago right? I haven't post much lately because I had the feeling we were running around in circles and I get that same feeling once again with this particular post. I hope someone can explain to me what's the reason for this post, what kind of information in it will help us to UNDERSTAND the reasons of the hoax? Hugs
I must have asked a really stupid question, because noone took the time to give me a (short) answer. I know I do not belong to the group of regular posters, but I'm a bit disappointed and I feel ignored. We can continue to repeat the same old stuff again and again but my question is: what's the use of it and aren't there much more important things to learn whether it is or isn't the same ambulance? Please fill me in!
Dear Do :) I have read your post but didn't know how to answer. For my part I'm just interested and curious about the hows of this hoax. I will say that trying to find out how things have been done will help us understand the reasons of the hoax because obviously when we dissect the hows we clearly see that a great length of time and risks have been necessary/taken in order to create it and make it possible. So it is not just for entertainment purposes. It will also certainly help us understand the upcoming trial. I don't know if it makes sense.
-
Hi guys,
I'm not an avid reader of TS' posts (I truly apologize for that :oops: ) so maybe I do not understand the value of his post, but my question is what's the use of trying to figure this all out? I thought that, now we are (hopefully) getting closer to a possible bam, there will be more important reasons to learn about this hoax. I feel that this post of TS does not add any important information, except the fact Michaels death really was fake and staged. But we came to that conclusion a long time ago right? I haven't post much lately because I had the feeling we were running around in circles and I get that same feeling once again with this particular post. I hope someone can explain to me what's the reason for this post, what kind of information in it will help us to UNDERSTAND the reasons of the hoax? Hugs
I must have asked a really stupid question, because noone took the time to give me a (short) answer. I know I do not belong to the group of regular posters, but I'm a bit disappointed and I feel ignored. We can continue to repeat the same old stuff again and again but my question is: what's the use of it and aren't there much more important things to learn whether it is or isn't the same ambulance? Please fill me in!
To get a complete, coherent theory. The forum is full of theories and beliefs, this way we will come to just one, solid theory that can be backed up with evidence.
-
i think the paramedics who responded "that" day were the real deal.They got there and found a "hospice patient" a "frail old man" and did not know it was MJ until it was pointed out to them.They testified to this in court, under oath. They possibly don't speak out on the ambulance picture because of hipaa regulations?
Who am i kidding, i'm lost here...
I don't think the court was real. That doesn't mean anyone in that room is in on the hoax, but at least the key people and (some) witnesses. The trial isn't going to be real either. Like Jermaine said, first justice, then truth. Which means no truth in the trial (fake), but justice. How? I guess we just need to sit back and watch it.
-
Hi guys,
I'm not an avid reader of TS' posts (I truly apologize for that :oops: ) so maybe I do not understand the value of his post, but my question is what's the use of trying to figure this all out? I thought that, now we are (hopefully) getting closer to a possible bam, there will be more important reasons to learn about this hoax. I feel that this post of TS does not add any important information, except the fact Michaels death really was fake and staged. But we came to that conclusion a long time ago right? I haven't post much lately because I had the feeling we were running around in circles and I get that same feeling once again with this particular post. I hope someone can explain to me what's the reason for this post, what kind of information in it will help us to UNDERSTAND the reasons of the hoax? Hugs
I must have asked a really stupid question, because noone took the time to give me a (short) answer. I know I do not belong to the group of regular posters, but I'm a bit disappointed and I feel ignored. We can continue to repeat the same old stuff again and again but my question is: what's the use of it and aren't there much more important things to learn whether it is or isn't the same ambulance? Please fill me in!
To get a complete, coherent theory. The forum is full of theories and beliefs, this way we will come to just one, solid theory that can be backed up with evidence.
Thank you Souza for answering me :) . I do understand what you are saying, but I still feel this evidence isn't important anymore. If Michael decides to return, I believe that the world isn't interested in HOW he did it, but WHY he did it. This feels like keeping us 'busy' in a quit time with no news.
-
Hi guys,
I'm not an avid reader of TS' posts (I truly apologize for that :oops: ) so maybe I do not understand the value of his post, but my question is what's the use of trying to figure this all out? I thought that, now we are (hopefully) getting closer to a possible bam, there will be more important reasons to learn about this hoax. I feel that this post of TS does not add any important information, except the fact Michaels death really was fake and staged. But we came to that conclusion a long time ago right? I haven't post much lately because I had the feeling we were running around in circles and I get that same feeling once again with this particular post. I hope someone can explain to me what's the reason for this post, what kind of information in it will help us to UNDERSTAND the reasons of the hoax? Hugs
I must have asked a really stupid question, because noone took the time to give me a (short) answer. I know I do not belong to the group of regular posters, but I'm a bit disappointed and I feel ignored. We can continue to repeat the same old stuff again and again but my question is: what's the use of it and aren't there much more important things to learn whether it is or isn't the same ambulance? Please fill me in!
To get a complete, coherent theory. The forum is full of theories and beliefs, this way we will come to just one, solid theory that can be backed up with evidence.
Thank you Souza for answering me :) . I do understand what you are saying, but I still feel this evidence isn't important anymore. If Michael decides to return, I believe that the world isn't interested in HOW he did it, but WHY he did it. This feels like keeping us 'busy' in a quit time with no news.
Well ,your first question is mine too!
-
Well it's nice to know that these close examinations with an insider to guide us are going to continue into the future for a while at least, while we await the trial. Thanks Im_convincedmjalive for that documentary reinactment video. I wonder who they had acting the part for MJ. He looks very close to the real thing. Even there MJ is clearly not looking like a frail sick old man. Do you know what date that was televised? I'm thinking too that MJ could be behind the making of it. He is fully clothed not naked as has been reported. What amazes me is that the professional investigators don't even seem to think hoax with all the fishy things that don't add up. Even commenters on TMZ seem to be so clueless after all this time. What's wrong with these people.
In the hospital ambulance pics, I'm thinking the right paramedic is black (too distant and hard to see MJ in him) and yet the two in the still pic are clearly both white. Murray does seem too short but he is leaning forward. In the courtroom he is a head taller than the others, though maybe paramedics tend to be taller IDK. To me the 2 ambulances seem the same, just the lighting different (flash or not). My thoughts are that in the famous pic and hospital amb pic, the EMT are all actors. There's just no way anyone would not recognize MJ. The ones giving testimony to officials are clearly not telling the truth and I think have all signed confidentiality clauses for the hoax. Swearing on the Bible means nothing in this hoax clearly, since it is "acting". (There's no way of getting around it, lots of pure lies but for unkown just cause.) There were 2 ambulances at the house, one backing out and one still visible inside the yard. Even if one of them had unsuspecting EMT, they would have wondered what the other one was for and been suspicious, plus all the other wacky wrong things. I think too the tour bus 17 (71 :o ) seems like the timing was included for witnesses and their cameras, but the bus driver needed not be knowing of the hoax.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/articl ... html?cat=2 (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2728673/vh1_revisits_famous_crime_scene_of.html?cat=2)
This Friday, Feb. 26, the VH1 program will present its take into the death of one of the most famous celebrities of all time, Michael Jackson. The entire world mourned when it was announced The King of Pop had died on June 25, 2009, apparently of a drug overdose.
Your welcome. I think this show was discussed on the forum last year but at the time people were to sensitive still over the death that I am thinking many didn't realize how much info could actually be in favor of the hoax.
Timing is everything and now 20/20 hindsight shows how much we may have missed. I didn't watch it until a couple of days ago. I don't know what category the thread is in now.
-
Hi guys,
I'm not an avid reader of TS' posts (I truly apologize for that :oops: ) so maybe I do not understand the value of his post, but my question is what's the use of trying to figure this all out? I thought that, now we are (hopefully) getting closer to a possible bam, there will be more important reasons to learn about this hoax. I feel that this post of TS does not add any important information, except the fact Michaels death really was fake and staged. But we came to that conclusion a long time ago right? I haven't post much lately because I had the feeling we were running around in circles and I get that same feeling once again with this particular post. I hope someone can explain to me what's the reason for this post, what kind of information in it will help us to UNDERSTAND the reasons of the hoax? Hugs
I must have asked a really stupid question, because noone took the time to give me a (short) answer. I know I do not belong to the group of regular posters, but I'm a bit disappointed and I feel ignored. We can continue to repeat the same old stuff again and again but my question is: what's the use of it and aren't there much more important things to learn whether it is or isn't the same ambulance? Please fill me in!
To get a complete, coherent theory. The forum is full of theories and beliefs, this way we will come to just one, solid theory that can be backed up with evidence.
Thank you Souza for answering me :) . I do understand what you are saying, but I still feel this evidence isn't important anymore. If Michael decides to return, I believe that the world isn't interested in HOW he did it, but WHY he did it. This feels like keeping us 'busy' in a quit time with no news.
Well I am interested, and I think that after the shock of the return and the questions of the 'whys', people sure want to know how the hell he fooled them that long.
-
guys. please forgive me i know we are supposed to be focused on the paramedics but. that middle picture caught my eye. could someone who has proper equipment or experties look at it a little closer. in the reflection of the glass i see a face . it seems a bit familiar. then maybe i should go have a comfy time out in my corner. :oops:
oh yeah . didn't kenny testify to michael saying something about equipment would be arriving the next day for the illusion?
-
Hi guys,
I'm not an avid reader of TS' posts (I truly apologize for that :oops: ) so maybe I do not understand the value of his post, but my question is what's the use of trying to figure this all out? I thought that, now we are (hopefully) getting closer to a possible bam, there will be more important reasons to learn about this hoax. I feel that this post of TS does not add any important information, except the fact Michaels death really was fake and staged. But we came to that conclusion a long time ago right? I haven't post much lately because I had the feeling we were running around in circles and I get that same feeling once again with this particular post. I hope someone can explain to me what's the reason for this post, what kind of information in it will help us to UNDERSTAND the reasons of the hoax? Hugs
I must have asked a really stupid question, because noone took the time to give me a (short) answer. I know I do not belong to the group of regular posters, but I'm a bit disappointed and I feel ignored. We can continue to repeat the same old stuff again and again but my question is: what's the use of it and aren't there much more important things to learn whether it is or isn't the same ambulance? Please fill me in!
To get a complete, coherent theory. The forum is full of theories and beliefs, this way we will come to just one, solid theory that can be backed up with evidence.
Thank you Souza for answering me :) . I do understand what you are saying, but I still feel this evidence isn't important anymore. If Michael decides to return, I believe that the world isn't interested in HOW he did it, but WHY he did it. This feels like keeping us 'busy' in a quit time with no news.
Well I am interested, and I think that after the shock of the return and the questions of the 'whys', people sure want to know how the hell he fooled them that long.
OK, that I understand! I do hope he makes a hell of a movie of it!!!
-
I guess if you want to determine if it's the actual #71 ambulance or just one that looks almost like it we could start back with the cabinets that don't appear to match. The white/silver trim around the cabinet in the video is not seen in the ambulance photo.
Screen cap from video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMB5gfcVChg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMB5gfcVChg)
[attachment=1:hfmorkxb]ambulance cabinet.jpg[/attachment:hfmorkxb]
Crop from ambulance2 photo:
[attachment=0:hfmorkxb]Ambulance2crop.jpg[/attachment:hfmorkxb]
I would like to ask you a question, why is the ambulance with the fire department? I am asking because here in Montreal,Canada our ambulances do not belong to the fire department. I just thought maybe that explains the hoaxed ambulance.
-
IMO there is NO way unless Michael totally explains how and why, that I'll believe this is a number game with Michale and hoaxing. I do not think he was planning it and set down and said, geez I have to do it this day, or can't do it that way because the numbers don't work out. Oh, down the road, these numbers don't work out so we have to scrap that too...
Nope,I think his agenda was way to intense to have to do this to begin with and I don't believe he had time, or put his need to do it on the cusp of numbers matching up.
JMO
-
Cont. to read here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/0 ... 47591.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/01/ex-ucla-worker-pleads-gui_n_147591.html)
Ex-UCLA Worker Pleads Guilty To Selling Celebrity Medical Records
LOS ANGELES — A former employee of UCLA Medical Center pleaded guilty Monday to selling information from the medical records of celebrities and high-profile patients, including Britney Spears and Farrah Fawcett, to the National Enquirer.
Lawanda Jackson, 49, spoke quietly as she entered her plea to the felony charge of violating federal medical privacy law for commercial purposes in U.S. District Court.
She faces a maximum sentence of 10 years in prison, followed by three years of supervised release, and a $250,000 fine. Sentencing is set for May.
Jackson and her attorney, Angel Navarro, declined to comment after the hearing.
Jackson worked as an administrative specialist at the UCLA hospitals for 32 years and in recent years began using her supervisor's password to access medical records inappropriately, authorities said.
The tabloid deposited checks totaling at least $4,600 into her husband's checking account beginning in 2006, prosecutors said. Jackson resigned in July 2007 before she could be fired.
Jackson and state officials have disclosed that records for Spears, Fawcett and California first lady Maria Shriver were among those breached.
Fawcett's attorney, Kim Swartz, said in April that the star's cancer diagnosis and details of her treatment showed up in the National Enquirer after an employee at the hospital accessed her medical records.
Do you think the hospital might be taking extra careful measures to avoid another issue like this one with Farrah? I believe that the UCLA ER personnel would absolutely keep their mouths shut (without having to sign a contract for the hoax) because of this issue in the past. The ER people don't need to be in the know for this to work. ;)
In a real emergency most people are not focused on faces. They are focused on the illness, injury, etc. If Michael did ride in the ambulance as a paramedic or the guy sitting up on the strecher (remember that guy) the people in the ER wouldn't be looking to see if he is Michael. They would be focused on fixing the patient.
The guy sitting up on the strecher at the ER doors in my opinion is another subliminal clue to get people wondering WTH is going on. I think those pictures of the ambulance at the ER doors are staged also.
There is also the guy who is filmed through the gate and he is suspect to me as being Michael. That would connect the dot to the paramedic in question being him.
Mass confusion happened that day at UCLA when the news broke.
People were/are under a spell. 8-)
P.S. You do know who that is? CA Gov. Arnold's wife.
-
guys. please forgive me i know we are supposed to be focused on the paramedics but. that middle picture caught my eye. could someone who has proper equipment or experties look at it a little closer. in the reflection of the glass i see a face . it seems a bit familiar. then maybe i should go have a comfy time out in my corner. :oops:
oh yeah . didn't kenny testify to michael saying something about equipment would be arriving the next day for the illusion?
u mean this face??
(http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/5097/facepu.jpg) (http://img202.imageshack.us/i/facepu.jpg/)
-
guys. please forgive me i know we are supposed to be focused on the paramedics but. that middle picture caught my eye. could someone who has proper equipment or experties look at it a little closer. in the reflection of the glass i see a face . it seems a bit familiar. then maybe i should go have a comfy time out in my corner. :oops:
oh yeah . didn't kenny testify to michael saying something about equipment would be arriving the next day for the illusion?
u mean this face??
(http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/5097/facepu.jpg) (http://img202.imageshack.us/i/facepu.jpg/)
yep might be nothin' but my add ;)
-
Maybe there was no ambulance before June 25th MJ could of simply used the real photo (the one on June 25th) and then taken pictures for the outside and put those two together. Since there was two days (that day and the other day) that would mean the paramedics weren't in on the hoax. Because just say they were in on the hoax then there would be no point to have 2 seperate days to produce the photo. But what I also don't know is why MJ used two seperate days couldn't he just do it on one day?
Also what is the point in having a fake photo?, is it to get to the non believers, if so couldn't MJ just simply photoshop it like any other person would, instead of having to go through all that trouble,or does MJ like to make things a little more complicated then it should be?
-
if real paramedics made a real call that day, then was it not for a real person? i have this feeling that the thing about the dead homeless person at the courthouse is connected in some way.
-
Thanks for the new information TS.
There had to be a real ambulance at Carolwood Dve, to help start the illusion....
Yes, if you mean on 6-25-09. However, my statement was referring to a staged photo before 6-25-09. Here is my statement again: "For example: if the ambulance photo was staged before 6-25-09, why bother bringing the ambulance to Carolwood Drive [before 6-25-09]—just to take a photo of things inside the ambulance?"
I haven't read all 3 pages yet, so this theory could have been written before. Here is my theory regarding to the ambulance issue. An ambulance that looks like the real ambulance came to a studio or Michael's house before 6-25-09. There were actors to play paramedics. And the pictures were taken on that day. And the ambulance went to the hospital with Michael inside on that day as well where we had these photos of him getting into the hospital sitting on the stretcher.
(http://www.cayman27.com.ky/app/webroot/files/t1home_michael_jackson_hospital_x17.jpg)
And on 6-25-2009 a real ambulance came to MJ's house with real paramedics and they found an old Asian looking man, probably who died hours ago and tried to survive him. And that is the reason why the paramedics said the patient didn't look like Michael. I still believe a dead body was used on 6-25 because of the paramedics' comments about the patient and how MJ's room was kept warm in the middle of summer. And the paramedics who are in court are also the real paramedics who went MJ's house on 6-25. I do not know if they said anything related how the patient looked like on that day in their testimony but probably they thought that MJ was so sick and fragile and that was the reason why he looked like an old guy. Michael can be the most famous person in this world but he wasn't in front of the cameras for some time and not everyone is his fans to follow and catch up what he looks like recently.
Michael had to use a fake ambulance to make fake photos because you could never know if someone (who has an agreement like Ben or some random people who were there) can take a nice shot of inside of the ambulance when the ambulance is moving. The scene needed to look real on 6-25 and there had to be witnesses that an ambulance was there on that day. And the ambulance was slow, without the sirens but still it couldn't stop and wait there for people to get nice shots through tinted windows.
So I believe that is the reason why Michael staged an ambulance scene before the real one on 6-25. And he used photoshop and changed his face, added some extra clues for us to understand the ambo pic is fake. BUT it couldn't be too fake to make everyone understand that it is fake. Until the statement came from Brian Oxman due to fake ambulance picture, people(non-believers) were still considering it as a real picture.
Probably Ben was called on the staged ambo day and on the real ambo day, to take the pictures on the staged ambo day and to be there on 6-25 to talk and make a statement like he was the one who took the ambo pictures. Do we even see this guy around the ambulance or his friend what ever he looks like on 6-25? And why that guy who took the picture doesn't talk but Ben does? To make a "goof" like "... on that day and the other d... umm"?
-
I don't think the court was real. That doesn't mean anyone in that room is in on the hoax, but at least the key people and (some) witnesses. The trial isn't going to be real either. Like Jermaine said, first justice, then truth. Which means no truth in the trial (fake), but justice. How? I guess we just need to sit back and watch it.
What justice? If this is a hoax, Murrey must be aquitted of charges. If this is not a hoax, then it is murder, Murrey must be charged w/ first degree murder with conspiracy, not manslaughter. But there is not enough evidence for murder, so murder is not in DA's charges.Only family claims it is a murder.
There is no justice going to be either way, then when will be the truth? Unless I don't understand what you mean by "not real", the court and key people are real. There is no way they all know Michael is alive and having investigation and trial. This mean they all believe Michael is dead and they do their job.
Now, why they believe Michael is dead? Based on autopsy only. Because no LAPD, DA, nor judge, jury, or any authority have seen Michael actually dead. EXCEPT FOR CORONER. So, the hoax goes up to the coroner office. Beyond that office, all real. What happens in LA county coroner, how we got AR, is it based on someone dead body, or is it real Michael, or bribed coroner? Those are questions we need to challenge.
-
Thanks for the new information TS.
There had to be a real ambulance at Carolwood Dve, to help start the illusion....
Yes, if you mean on 6-25-09. However, my statement was referring to a staged photo before 6-25-09. Here is my statement again: "For example: if the ambulance photo was staged before 6-25-09, why bother bringing the ambulance to Carolwood Drive [before 6-25-09]—just to take a photo of things inside the ambulance?"
Probably Ben was called on the staged ambo day and on the real ambo day, to take the pictures on the staged ambo day and to be there on 6-25 to talk and make a statement like he was the one who took the ambo pictures. Do we even see this guy around the ambulance or his friend what ever he looks like on 6-25? And why that guy who took the picture doesn't talk but Ben does? To make a "goof" like "... on that day and the other d... umm"? [/b]
It's like a duo. We have Batman & Robin. We know Batman is the leader. Batman does all the talking. Is Batman & Robin...not Robin & Batman. It's the Bat-mobile, not the Rob-mobile. Maybe Ben is like Batman and had to do all the talking. My opinion... :lol:
-
The next level means that we are now going to shift the focus from the ambulance picture (whether it was real or fake, etc) to whether or not some or all of the paramedics are in on the hoax. Did the actual paramedics pose for a staged ambulance shot before 6-25-09? Or did MJ use actors dressed like paramedics? Was the ambulance photo staged with the actual #71 LAFD ambulance, or another one that looks about the same inside? Would the real paramedics publicly deny the ambulance photo, if it was not them in the picture (and they were not in on the hoax)?
Using what tools? The same photos we have? Can we still extract evidence from those? I feel I'm gonna be stuck in High School for a while. :lol:
-
Thanks for the new information TS.
There had to be a real ambulance at Carolwood Dve, to help start the illusion....
Yes, if you mean on 6-25-09. However, my statement was referring to a staged photo before 6-25-09. Here is my statement again: "For example: if the ambulance photo was staged before 6-25-09, why bother bringing the ambulance to Carolwood Drive [before 6-25-09]—just to take a photo of things inside the ambulance?"
Probably Ben was called on the staged ambo day and on the real ambo day, to take the pictures on the staged ambo day and to be there on 6-25 to talk and make a statement like he was the one who took the ambo pictures. Do we even see this guy around the ambulance or his friend what ever he looks like on 6-25? And why that guy who took the picture doesn't talk but Ben does? To make a "goof" like "... on that day and the other d... umm"? [/b]
It's like a duo. We have Batman & Robin. We know Batman is the leader. Batman does all the talking. Is Batman & Robin...not Robin & Batman. It's the Bat-mobile, not the Rob-mobile. Maybe Ben is like Batman and had to do all the talking. My opinion... :lol:
Poor Robin. Batman gets all the credit. :lol:
-
I think that the ambulance photo was taken prier to 6/25 and it was staged with actors or like someone stated before they seem to never move so could
Be dummies. And it was the real Michael lying there for the photo.
Then on 6/25 the real paramedics came out to the house and they did not recognize the person as being Michael because it was not him. It was someone that
Was on there death bead and gave permission to use there body for this hoax (who knows a good pay out to help family members with expenses)
And what we saw at the hospital was real because there would have to be way too many people involved to keep an eye on.
With a fake body and all the statements that he was in poor health why would any of the medical staff question all the family members that were there?
Just a quick thought. I could be way off.
Hugssssssssssssssssssssssssssss :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
BTW Thank you TS for staying with us.
-
I don't know if this old article was posted before but it might help in some way to push this new focus on the paramedics investigation.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/musi ... ealed.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/michael-jackson/7304639/Michael-Jackson-paramedic-tape-revealed.html)
Michael Jackson: paramedic tape revealed
A recording that is believed to detail the moment paramedics broke the news of Michael Jackson’s death has emerged.
[youtube:7lwauqqy]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bN_BL3x0Ns8&tracker=False[/youtube:7lwauqqy]
By Ben Leach 7:44AM GMT 24 Feb 2010
The tape is thought to feature a Los Angeles Fire Department medical worker calling the UCLA hospital.
The voice on the recording says: “Patient is Michael Jackson, the pop star singer. No pulse, no breathing.
“Unresponsive. Tried to resuscitate him. Unsuccessful. We’ve done everything we can. We should be there in five minutes. It doesn’t look good. It doesn’t look good.”
The tape emerged on an ambulance workers’ internet forum, according to The Sun.
An LAFD spokesman said: “I couldn’t confirm that it is one of our workers. It could be. They refer to “pop star Michael Jackson” but it is not our practice to name names.”
Related Articles
If genuine, the recording may be used as evidence in Dr Conrad Murray’s trial over involuntary manslaughter charges later this year.
It contradicts Dr Murray’s claims. He said that Jackson was still warm and had a pulse when he put him in the ambulance.
He has admitted giving the singer a cocktail of drugs including Propofol, the powerful sedative.
Jackson died on June 25 last year aged 50 while preparing for his forthcoming This Is It concert series at the O2 Arena in London.
*EDIT*: I found other articles saying that this is a fake call (conversation). Sorry for bringing this before looking into it.
-
delete
-
Not only are the paramedics actors on the fake photo, but they have to be actors on June 25th as well. They responded to the 911 call. It's a serious offense to make a 911 call for non-real events. During the call the 911 operator actually hangs up on MJ's security gaurd who makes the call, which they should never do, therefore fake. Fake 911 operator would only "dispatch" actor paramedics. Notice no sirens either as they go to the hospital. 71 amb. would simply be performing as in a movie usage.
MJhasSpoken
Also what is the point in having a fake photo?, is it to get to the non believers, if so couldn't MJ just simply photoshop it like any other person would, instead of having to go through all that trouble,or does MJ like to make things a little more complicated then it should be?
If Michael really wanted to just fake his death and fade into the sunset to some hidden paradise forever, he would have made everything very authentic and very real, impossible to find flaws. But the thousands of slip-ups, inconsistencies and wacky things show he clearly wants to be discovered to be hoaxing us. In fact I believe there is beautiful harmony. Dots to be connected, related themes and patterns. TS has shown the irrefutable incredible numerology in the hoax. I remember way back it was talked about all the 2's in the hoax. 02 arena, talk of doubles in TII, 2 -TII versions, 2 -911 calls, "this and the other d...", 2 ambulances, 2 Dave-Dave's, and more I can't think of.
I too, have thought about the great risks some key people are taking by being part of the hoax, particularly Murray, Kenny Ortega and some others who are percieved by some as participating in a murder. All it takes is one crazed fan. MJ must have to pay them extra, or they love him no matter what happens. This is surely an extreme adventure for them.
Im_convincedmjalive, this television series is interesting for who they are focusing on.
Michael Jackson, Tupac Shakur, and Anna Nicole Smith are only three of seven celebrities whose crime scenes are scheduled to be investigated during Famous Crime Scene's first season on VH1.
The series, which airs from 9-9:30 p.m. EST on Fridays, is slated to also
examine the untimely losses of John Lennon, Marvin Gaye, The Notorious B.I.G. and Selena.
-
[youtube:xwmpvqk4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GusaWm5RoxI&tracker=False&NR=1[/youtube:xwmpvqk4]
This ones better....no distractions.
What is the problem with that call?
answer....NOTHING.
It is a typical call where you would hear one party
talking to the other about a said situation.
I guess none of you have ever had a police scanner?
-
I will post this picture of Michael again........he had a paramedic shirt made up for him, and who knows where he kept it all these years. It's obviously really easy to get a uniform made up if you're Michael Jackson...
And Twiggy from MJhoax live has been in the courtroom, at every trial. She would have recognised the paramedics and would be the first to report that they didn't look the same, but unfortunatley, they did. They were the same men as in the pictures..
-
Not only are the paramedics actors on the fake photo, but they have to be actors on June 25th as well. They responded to the 911 call. It's a serious offense to make a 911 call for non-real events. During the call the 911 operator actually hangs up on MJ's security gaurd who makes the call, which they should never do, therefore fake. Fake 911 operator would only "dispatch" actor paramedics. Notice no sirens either as they go to the hospital. 71 amb. would simply be performing as in a movie usage.
What if there is a real 911 call and a staged one and the one we heard is the staged one?
-
If a tree falls in the forest and there's no one around to hear it, does it make a sound?
-
Just wondering...
Do you think the cabinet from the pictures match the cabinet from the video? Wouldn't that white border show up in the pictures?
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12209)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12208)
Good catch! I'm glad somebody noticed this--it is one of the "secrets" that I have been planning on pointing out, if nobody found it. But I'm always glad when someone else finds it first. There is one more thing about this that I will include later, if nobody else gets it first.
TS, I was wondering what the other one more thing you were going to include. Did you write it to us already or someone else has found it or are you waiting for the ambulance research/discussion to end?
-
Funny....the paparazzi are right behind the ambulance on their way to the hospital with 4 man?
Arriving at the hospital and such bad pics and vid, far away and not even close?
Normally paps jump out of their car, and come close to the victim they are chasing.
To get the best shot for the day.
But hell no....they stayed far away, no time to get out of the car or even run to the ambulance.
They had the camera on, you can see it in a video with Ben.
No pics of the ambulance arriving at the hospital?
No pics of the stretcher getting out of the ambulance?
Bad job Ben.
:D
Chappie
-
If a tree falls in the forest and there's no one around to hear it, does it make a sound?
lmfao!
-
Indeed where are all the many competing paps for house or UCLA on June 25, only Ben's company.
If a tree falls in the forest and there's no one around to hear it, does it make a sound?
:lol:
Does anyone remember way back there was either a video or a post focusing on faces that seemed to reappear for different roles in the hoax as in actors/actresses, like in the earlier Murray court preliminaries, security guards, a particular MJ fan group, and more? Thanks.
-
In the 911 call they never said it was Michael Jackson but a gentleman of 50.
And he was admitted at UCLA under the name Soule Shaun.
The paramedics said they didn't recognize Michael Jackson, because there was an old frail man.
So one scenario would be this: another person died instead of Michael.
In this case nobody from the fire dep. or from the paramedics or from the hospital had to be in the hoax and everything that happened that day was for real, except the fact that the dying person was not Michael.
I would go for this
There is only one problem: Why the paramedics, if they are not in the hoax, didn't reveal that the ambulance pic is fake?
-
how crazy. i was just going to post about the paramedics last night in the other thread about the ambulance picture, but i wasn't even sure if it was relevant. i feel bad i haven't been helping out lately- it's finals week and my brain is being sunk by the endless papers i have to write. sorry guys, you're all doing an incredible job!
the paramedics are what i specifically focused on in the ambulance picture. i have different scenarios and questions running through my head. i'll post them, hopefully you guys can help me sort through the mess in my head.
let's say they are paid actors. to make things easier (and involve less people) michael could have hired a set of actors and had them sign a confidentiality agreement. they could be the paramedics on "the other day" as well as "the day." he could have also asked them to place the 911 call (since we know it sounds phony). multiple jobs for as little people as possible-less likely the hoax leaks. with this scenario, the doctors at UCLA would have to have known that the paramedics were actors and expecting who or what was on the stretcher. this would also work with the assumption the court is a set up. nobody commits perjury or is "lying under oath" of any kind since it is all a fallacy anyway.
the other scenario would be that there were a set of hired actors (or models) for "the other day." then the real paramedics responded to the house to collect a "hospice patient" believing it to be michael. in this case, the 911 would have to be real, since a paramedics who are doing their daily runs do not respond to a fake call. they would have to be dispatched. this would also mean that michael had to somehow know the race of the paramedics who would come to the house to match them in the ambulance photo (since the photo was shown worldwide, you'd think real EMTs would say "that's not my arm or body"-especially in court). this sounds like a much more complicated and shaky plan.
also, who is to say that the EMTs in the photo (assuming they are not real EMTs) aren't actors, but some of michael's friends/ employees? Would he have to pay people to do a job he could entrust to those who are most loyal to him? We don't know who michael knows (perfect example would be the casicos). maybe those who took the stand are neither actors nor real EMTs, but rather friends whom michael didn't have to pay. their loyalty was free.
by examining the paramedics within the picture, i have a hard time believing that they are real EMTs. the one factor that gets me every time is the paramedic on the left, with one hand on michael's chest. now, it's obvious he isn't doing chest compressions. let's say this picture was taken in seconds, each frame representing a millisecond even. when would an EMT ever stand over a patient with one hand on the chest? wouldn't that seem he would be leaning on the patient (a big common sense no-no)? i'm open to ideas. the placement of the hand is what gets me.
just some thoughts.
hey TS: now that we've graduated, are we sophomores now? my birthday's next week and i'm getting old. i'll cling to anything that represents youth! :P
-
Indeed where are all the many competing paps for house or UCLA on June 25, only Ben's company.
If a tree falls in the forest and there's no one around to hear it, does it make a sound?
:lol:
Does anyone remember way back there was either a video or a post focusing on faces that seemed to reappear for different roles in the hoax as in actors/actresses, like in the earlier Murray court preliminaries, security guards, a particular MJ fan group, and more? Thanks.
This is the topic about all the same people, acting out the same roles...
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=9059&hilit=+all+the+actors+in+this+hoax (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=9059&hilit=+all+the+actors+in+this+hoax)
And I totally agree about them maybe being friends, playing a role for MJ, BUT, wouldn't the real Ambulance paramedics, who are the original staff at station 71, come forward and say "HEY... THATS NOT US!!!! WE WEREN"T THERE !!!" That would ruin everything for the hoax, and illusion. IMO..
-
I think that the paramedics are involved. If the photo ambulance is a false why none of them said nothing to the press? For example, that the man in the picture is not the same that have relief
-
How many alternatives do we have?
1.They are not in the hoax because there is no hoax and Michael died.
2.They are not in the hoax and somebody else died, but why they didn't say the ambulance pic is a fake?
3.They are in the hoax and somebody else died.
4.They are in the hoax and nobody died, there was a dummy.
But it's not that simple because we also have to consider if the following were real:
- the 911 call
- the ambulance
- the fire dept. car
- the paramedics
- the UCLA doctors
What I missed?
Who has time to solve k-combinations of n?
-
Agreed. The silence from the paramedics and the fact that they were conveniently not photographed so their faces were visible is just too convenient. ;)
-
GINAFELICIA said:
"Who has time to solve k-combinations of n?"
It does feel like an ever growing Pascal Triangle at times, lol! Or maybe I should say Pascal Pyramid! ;)
Blessings to you GINAFELICIA! Have a great day!
Wishingstar
-
Indeed where are all the many competing paps for house or UCLA on June 25, only Ben's company.
If a tree falls in the forest and there's no one around to hear it, does it make a sound?
:lol:
Does anyone remember way back there was either a video or a post focusing on faces that seemed to reappear for different roles in the hoax as in actors/actresses, like in the earlier Murray court preliminaries, security guards, a particular MJ fan group, and more? Thanks.
This is the topic about all the same people, acting out the same roles...
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=9059&hilit=+all+the+actors+in+this+hoax (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=9059&hilit=+all+the+actors+in+this+hoax)
And I totally agree about them maybe being friends, playing a role for MJ, BUT, wouldn't the real Ambulance paramedics, who are the original staff at station 71, come forward and say "HEY... THATS NOT US!!!! WE WEREN"T THERE !!!" That would ruin everything for the hoax, and illusion. IMO..
Great thread! Need to read it!
-
I have always found this video interesting:
[youtube:3m2fshv1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMB5gfcVChg[/youtube:3m2fshv1]
I don't think if I walked up to a fire station in my town, I'd be able to film an ambulance like that. Has anyone from forum tried this.....anyone live there close enough? I would in a heartbeat......I'd love to see eye to eye any of company 71. In the video here, the fireman on duty conveniently says the people on duty for Michael's call are out. Is this really station 71? I think so. Here is an article about a pancake Breakfast Breakfast they hosted :
http://www.bigwheelmagazine.com/around_ ... e-13-2010/ (http://www.bigwheelmagazine.com/around_town/pancake-breakfast-at-fire-station-71-of-the-los-angeles-fire-department-los-angeles-ca-june-13-2010/)
Anyone look familiar? Paramedics?
Blessings Always!
-
umm let me see if i can say this in a way that is understandable. sometimes say like in a murder situation there is evidence that is not released because it is something only the murderer would know. now what if that is the reason that the paramedics have not said the photo is fake? because that is something only the person responsible for making it and getting it out should know ? i guess that would me that the paramedics would be under some kind of gag order maybe? :?
-
Pages 13-15:
a) External exam & remarks:
1- The body is identified by toe tag (Federal law states that all the deceased be swabbed for DNA analysis & have their information entered into the newly created DNA bank. There’s no indication of any sort of DNA test in this case. There’s no indication of why they didn't finger print the deceased, although this is the most common method of IDing a body especially since they had Michael’s finger prints on file from the 2005 booking )
2- The body was refrigerated un-embalmed & there’s no indication of future embalmment & whether it is going to be done at the coroner’s or at the mortuary.
{** Interesting Observation: The autopsy did not take place till 6/26/09 & as mentioned above the body was refrigerated, however on page 13, the coroner conducting the autopsy mentions presence of ETT (Endo-Tracheal Tube that they inserted in his throat to make sure the airway is open & to give him oxygen, remember the infamous ambulance picture & also look back at my previous posts on the autopsy analysis) It is absolutely BIZARRE to have the body refrigerated with the ETT still in place. Because rigor mortis is going to happen & also the cold is going to stiffen the muscles & it will be hard to extract the tube. ALWAYS all the medical extensions must be removed from the body before refrigerating it & before the rigor mortis sets in, otherwise you're jeopardizing the autopsy & it's accuracy, because you will be damaging the tissues & organs. Also the IABP (intra aortic balloon pump) & CL (central lines including IVs) are said to be still in place at the time of the autopsy. neither myself nor my professor who is a trained coroner has ever seen anything like this. this is either a typo or if they indeed leave this items in his body & refrigerated it they have compromised the accuracy of the autopsy.}
3- The body weighs 136 lb = 62 Kg
4- The body’s height is 69 inches = 5.75 ft = 175.26 cm ( Michael’s height according to his driver’s license & passport is 5.9 ft = 179.83 cm )
5- Lower back has 1/4-1/2 inch (0.64-1.27 cm)pre-mortem abrasions which are thought to be caused by some sort of beads found on the deceased’s bed as shown in the scene photographs.
6- A condom catheter is present. [Condom catheter sits over the penis & allows a person to empty his bladder without using a urinal, bedpan, or toilet.]
7- Gauze pads are seen on the right side of the neck, both left & right antecubital fossa (triangular cavity of elbow joint where they usually draw blood from) and left forearm.
8- The central chest has an irregular abrasion of the following size: 1.1/2 x 1.1/4 inch = 3.81 x 3.18 cm. This abrasion is surrounded by a bruise of the following size: 3 x 3 inch = 7.62 x 7.62 cm (could be caused by CPR)
9- The soft tissue of the left anterior chest (left bosom) shows a 3.1/2 x 2 inch = 8.89 x 5.08 cm bruise (could be caused by CPR)
10- The soft tissue of the right anterior chest (right bosom) shows a 5 x 3.12 inch = 12.7 x 8.89 cm bruise (could be caused by CPR)
11- The sternum ( long thin bone that connect the ribs in the middle of the chest) is fractured at 3rd rib.
12- Both right & left 4th & 5th ribs are fractured at the rib junction to the sternum bone.
13- Behind both left & right ears a 3/4 inch = 1.9 cm scar is visible
14- A 3/5 inch = 1.52 cm scar on outer wall of each nostril, both right & left
15- Top of right shoulder bears an irregular scar-like area with a diameter of 4 inches = 10.16 cm
16- On the back side of the neck, right at the base, there are two visible scars, the one on the right side measures about 3 inches = 7.62 cm & the one on the left side measures about 3.3/4 inches = 9.53 cm
17- Both left & right wrist bear a scar measuring to 1/8 inch = 0.32 cm (there’s no indication whether this scar appears on the front or back side of the wrist)
18- The inside of the arm, close to the triangular cavity of the elbow joint bears a scar measuring to 1/4 inch = 0.64 cm
19- There’s a scar measuring to 7/8 inch = 2.22 cm on the muscle on the palm of the hand just beneath the thumb of the right hand.
20- Right lower quadrant (in medicine we refer to this section of human body as RLQ & it bears the following important organs in males: cecum, appendix, ascending colon, right ureter), the RLQ of the deceased bears a 2 inch = 5.08 cm surgical scar (however later on the report we notice that none of the organs in the RLQ are missing & to claim this scar as a surgical scar just seems bizarre & inaccurate.)
21- There’s a 5/8 inch = 1.6 cm scar around the navel
22- The right knee bears a semicircular scar & few other smaller scars are located at a distance from it, measuring 1/2 to 1/4 inch = 1/27 to 0.64 cm
23- The front of right leg has a 5 x 2.1/2 inch = 12.7 x 6.35 cm area of hyper-pigmentation
24- There are dark tattoos on both eyebrows, eyelids (lower & upper) and on the front half of the scalp. There is also a pink tattoo around the lips.
25- Focal de-pigmentation of skin especially over the front of the chest and abdomen, face & arms (this could be due to his vitiliago)
26- Rigor mortis (rigidity of muscles that happens after death) is present in limbs & jaw. Lividity is fixed (meaning the skin color has turned purple due to the pooling of blood after death & even after applying pressure the color stays purple which means the person has been dead for more than 10 hrs.)
27- There are no abnormalities seen on the head & it is partly covered by black hair which is short & tightly curled. The front of head has some balding.
28- The eyes are brown and the white part of the eye is free of any abnormal coloration. There’s no purple hemorrhage of the inner side of the eye lids.
29- The passage connecting the nose & the mouth is unobstructed.
30- A bandage is seen on the tip of the nose
31- It is stated that he neck is unremarkable (this is a contradiction to previous statements pointing out all the marks & scars on the neck!!!!)
32- There’s no chest deformity, both outer & inner wall of chest seem normal.
33- Penis is uncircumcised
34- The exterior & surface of the body doesn’t show any swelling or deformation or abnormality
35- It is mentioned that the body was not clothed. This is very ambiguous, as earlier in the report, when the body was in the hospital it was mentioned that the deceased was wearing a hospital gown. It is common to submit all the deceased clothing to the coroner for investigation. I doubt Michael arrived to the hospital naked & I doubt they transferred his body to the coroner’s office naked.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=11440 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=11440)
Ethical issuesCardiopulmonary resuscitation and advanced cardiac life support are not always the interest of a person. This is especially true in the case of terminal illness when resuscitation would not alter the outcome of the disease . Properly performed CPR often fractures cause rib , especially in patients older or who have osteoporosis . Defibrillation, especially repeated several times as required by the protocols of advanced cardiac life support, can cause burns electricity . Internal cardiac massage, another procedure of advanced cardiac life support performed by emergency medicine physicians need to open the rib cage, which is painful during the weeks of recovery.
Not surprisingly, some people with a terminal illness choose to avoid such actions "heroic" and receive only a palliative treatment .
People who wish to seek treatment for a cardiac arrest should discuss these wishes with your doctor and your family.
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parada_cardiorrespiratoria (http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parada_cardiorrespiratoria)
It is also important that these views are aimed somewhere in the medical record. In the event of cardiac arrest, professionals health need to act quickly based on available information. As often cardiac arrest occurs outside regular hours, the resuscitation team rarely includes someone who knows the patient.
A patient can ask your doctor to file a Do Not Resuscitate order (DNR, for its acronym in English ) in the medical record. Alternatively, in many jurisdictions, a person may formally indicate their wishes in an "advance directive" or "advanced health care directive" (ie, is a document which indicates legal in how you want to be treated if seriously ill and no hope recovery).
-
umm let me see if i can say this in a way that is understandable. sometimes say like in a murder situation there is evidence that is not released because it is something only the murderer would know. now what if that is the reason that the paramedics have not said the photo is fake? because that is something only the person responsible for making it and getting it out should know ? i guess that would me that the paramedics would be under some kind of gag order maybe? :?
To me the question is:
Why would medias display the same pic but with clear differences between them from the same event (the ambo pic)?
-
Pages 13-15:
a) External exam & remarks:
1- The body is identified by toe tag (Federal law states that all the deceased be swabbed for DNA analysis & have their information entered into the newly created DNA bank. There’s no indication of any sort of DNA test in this case. There’s no indication of why they didn't finger print the deceased, although this is the most common method of IDing a body especially since they had Michael’s finger prints on file from the 2005 booking )
2- The body was refrigerated un-embalmed & there’s no indication of future embalmment & whether it is going to be done at the coroner’s or at the mortuary.
{** Interesting Observation: The autopsy did not take place till 6/26/09 & as mentioned above the body was refrigerated, however on page 13, the coroner conducting the autopsy mentions presence of ETT (Endo-Tracheal Tube that they inserted in his throat to make sure the airway is open & to give him oxygen, remember the infamous ambulance picture & also look back at my previous posts on the autopsy analysis) It is absolutely BIZARRE to have the body refrigerated with the ETT still in place. Because rigor mortis is going to happen & also the cold is going to stiffen the muscles & it will be hard to extract the tube. ALWAYS all the medical extensions must be removed from the body before refrigerating it & before the rigor mortis sets in, otherwise you're jeopardizing the autopsy & it's accuracy, because you will be damaging the tissues & organs. Also the IABP (intra aortic balloon pump) & CL (central lines including IVs) are said to be still in place at the time of the autopsy. neither myself nor my professor who is a trained coroner has ever seen anything like this. this is either a typo or if they indeed leave this items in his body & refrigerated it they have compromised the accuracy of the autopsy.}
3- The body weighs 136 lb = 62 Kg
4- The body’s height is 69 inches = 5.75 ft = 175.26 cm ( Michael’s height according to his driver’s license & passport is 5.9 ft = 179.83 cm )
5- Lower back has 1/4-1/2 inch (0.64-1.27 cm)pre-mortem abrasions which are thought to be caused by some sort of beads found on the deceased’s bed as shown in the scene photographs.
6- A condom catheter is present. [Condom catheter sits over the penis & allows a person to empty his bladder without using a urinal, bedpan, or toilet.]
7- Gauze pads are seen on the right side of the neck, both left & right antecubital fossa (triangular cavity of elbow joint where they usually draw blood from) and left forearm.
8- The central chest has an irregular abrasion of the following size: 1.1/2 x 1.1/4 inch = 3.81 x 3.18 cm. This abrasion is surrounded by a bruise of the following size: 3 x 3 inch = 7.62 x 7.62 cm (could be caused by CPR)
9- The soft tissue of the left anterior chest (left bosom) shows a 3.1/2 x 2 inch = 8.89 x 5.08 cm bruise (could be caused by CPR)
10- The soft tissue of the right anterior chest (right bosom) shows a 5 x 3.12 inch = 12.7 x 8.89 cm bruise (could be caused by CPR)
11- The sternum ( long thin bone that connect the ribs in the middle of the chest) is fractured at 3rd rib.
12- Both right & left 4th & 5th ribs are fractured at the rib junction to the sternum bone.
13- Behind both left & right ears a 3/4 inch = 1.9 cm scar is visible
14- A 3/5 inch = 1.52 cm scar on outer wall of each nostril, both right & left
15- Top of right shoulder bears an irregular scar-like area with a diameter of 4 inches = 10.16 cm
16- On the back side of the neck, right at the base, there are two visible scars, the one on the right side measures about 3 inches = 7.62 cm & the one on the left side measures about 3.3/4 inches = 9.53 cm
17- Both left & right wrist bear a scar measuring to 1/8 inch = 0.32 cm (there’s no indication whether this scar appears on the front or back side of the wrist)
18- The inside of the arm, close to the triangular cavity of the elbow joint bears a scar measuring to 1/4 inch = 0.64 cm
19- There’s a scar measuring to 7/8 inch = 2.22 cm on the muscle on the palm of the hand just beneath the thumb of the right hand.
20- Right lower quadrant (in medicine we refer to this section of human body as RLQ & it bears the following important organs in males: cecum, appendix, ascending colon, right ureter), the RLQ of the deceased bears a 2 inch = 5.08 cm surgical scar (however later on the report we notice that none of the organs in the RLQ are missing & to claim this scar as a surgical scar just seems bizarre & inaccurate.)
21- There’s a 5/8 inch = 1.6 cm scar around the navel
22- The right knee bears a semicircular scar & few other smaller scars are located at a distance from it, measuring 1/2 to 1/4 inch = 1/27 to 0.64 cm
23- The front of right leg has a 5 x 2.1/2 inch = 12.7 x 6.35 cm area of hyper-pigmentation
24- There are dark tattoos on both eyebrows, eyelids (lower & upper) and on the front half of the scalp. There is also a pink tattoo around the lips.
25- Focal de-pigmentation of skin especially over the front of the chest and abdomen, face & arms (this could be due to his vitiliago)
26- Rigor mortis (rigidity of muscles that happens after death) is present in limbs & jaw. Lividity is fixed (meaning the skin color has turned purple due to the pooling of blood after death & even after applying pressure the color stays purple which means the person has been dead for more than 10 hrs.)
27- There are no abnormalities seen on the head & it is partly covered by black hair which is short & tightly curled. The front of head has some balding.
28- The eyes are brown and the white part of the eye is free of any abnormal coloration. There’s no purple hemorrhage of the inner side of the eye lids.
29- The passage connecting the nose & the mouth is unobstructed.
30- A bandage is seen on the tip of the nose
31- It is stated that he neck is unremarkable (this is a contradiction to previous statements pointing out all the marks & scars on the neck!!!!)
32- There’s no chest deformity, both outer & inner wall of chest seem normal.
33- Penis is uncircumcised
34- The exterior & surface of the body doesn’t show any swelling or deformation or abnormality
35- It is mentioned that the body was not clothed. This is very ambiguous, as earlier in the report, when the body was in the hospital it was mentioned that the deceased was wearing a hospital gown. It is common to submit all the deceased clothing to the coroner for investigation. I doubt Michael arrived to the hospital naked & I doubt they transferred his body to the coroner’s office naked.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=11440 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=11440)
Ethical issuesCardiopulmonary resuscitation and advanced cardiac life support are not always the interest of a person. This is especially true in the case of terminal illness when resuscitation would not alter the outcome of the disease . Properly performed CPR often fractures cause rib , especially in patients older or who have osteoporosis . Defibrillation, especially repeated several times as required by the protocols of advanced cardiac life support, can cause burns electricity . Internal cardiac massage, another procedure of advanced cardiac life support performed by emergency medicine physicians need to open the rib cage, which is painful during the weeks of recovery.
Not surprisingly, some people with a terminal illness choose to avoid such actions "heroic" and receive only a palliative treatment .
People who wish to seek treatment for a cardiac arrest should discuss these wishes with your doctor and your family.
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parada_cardiorrespiratoria (http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parada_cardiorrespiratoria)
It is also important that these views are aimed somewhere in the medical record. In the event of cardiac arrest, professionals health need to act quickly based on available information. As often cardiac arrest occurs outside regular hours, the resuscitation team rarely includes someone who knows the patient.
A patient can ask your doctor to file a Do Not Resuscitate order (DNR, for its acronym in English ) in the medical record. Alternatively, in many jurisdictions, a person may formally indicate their wishes in an "advance directive" or "advanced health care directive" (ie, is a document which indicates legal in how you want to be treated if seriously ill and no hope recovery).
-
Endocrine System:
1.- The Thymus is not identified. [this report gets bizarre page by page, apparently the coroner was not able to find the thymus, so the dead body is missing his thymus. The thymus is a specialized organ of the immune system. In lupus patients the whole immune system becomes over active attacking the body’s tissues & organs. However in HIV AIDS patients the thymus will be damaged to the point that it cannot be identified in the body. Another cause for missing the thymus is a very rare birth defect called the Digeorge Syndrome, however people suffering from this syndrome have certain facial features that make them stand out, very much similar to Down Syndrome. We know Michael didn’t have Digeorge Syndrome, there’s no mention of the deceased body having HIV, so why is the thymus missing? I can’t find a medical explanation for it!!!!
It is worth mentioning that removal of Thymus is highly unconventional & dangerous, the only time that a surgeon might decide to remove a thymus is in infants with sever heart defects that require heart surgery, the thymus in these cases sometimes have to be removed in order for the surgeon to have an unobstructed access to the heart. however this is not the case in older children or adults. Another very rare case that requires removal of thymus, which again I insist is very rare & it's a tough choice for a surgeon to make, is if a patient is suffering from Myasthenia gravis. Myasthenia gravis is a neuro-muscular disease leading to severe fluctuation of muscles & weakness & fatiguability. Again not all the cases of Myasthenia gravis require removal of thymus. Removal of thymus bears sever neurological side effects & it is a contributing factor in death of HIV patients. So why is the body missing the Thymus?]
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=11440 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=11440)
What I mean with the last two post is that propablemte someone die that day in the house and the paramedicos not to recognize Michael, now the assumptions paramedicos that are in the ambulance can be actors.
-
paula-c said: Endocrine System:
1.- The Thymus is not identified. [this report gets bizarre page by page, apparently the coroner was not able to find the thymus, so the dead body is missing his thymus. The thymus is a specialized organ of the immune system. In lupus patients the whole immune system becomes over active attacking the body’s tissues & organs. However in HIV AIDS patients the thymus will be damaged to the point that it cannot be identified in the body. Another cause for missing the thymus is a very rare birth defect called the Digeorge Syndrome, however people suffering from this syndrome have certain facial features that make them stand out, very much similar to Down Syndrome. We know Michael didn’t have Digeorge Syndrome, there’s no mention of the deceased body having HIV, so why is the thymus missing? I can’t find a medical explanation for it!!!!
It is worth mentioning that removal of Thymus is highly unconventional & dangerous, the only time that a surgeon might decide to remove a thymus is in infants with sever heart defects that require heart surgery, the thymus in these cases sometimes have to be removed in order for the surgeon to have an unobstructed access to the heart. however this is not the case in older children or adults. Another very rare case that requires removal of thymus, which again I insist is very rare & it's a tough choice for a surgeon to make, is if a patient is suffering from Myasthenia gravis. Myasthenia gravis is a neuro-muscular disease leading to severe fluctuation of muscles & weakness & fatiguability. Again not all the cases of Myasthenia gravis require removal of thymus. Removal of thymus bears sever neurological side effects & it is a contributing factor in death of HIV patients. So why is the body missing the Thymus?]
Unfortunately, I can tell you from personal experience, the removal of the Thymus is very dangerous....my mother passed from Myasthenia. She was incredibly weak afterwards, people did not recognize her in the end...I'm done....gotta go cry.
Love to all...............Wishingstar
-
paula-c said: Endocrine System:
1.- The Thymus is not identified. [this report gets bizarre page by page, apparently the coroner was not able to find the thymus, so the dead body is missing his thymus. The thymus is a specialized organ of the immune system. In lupus patients the whole immune system becomes over active attacking the body’s tissues & organs. However in HIV AIDS patients the thymus will be damaged to the point that it cannot be identified in the body. Another cause for missing the thymus is a very rare birth defect called the Digeorge Syndrome, however people suffering from this syndrome have certain facial features that make them stand out, very much similar to Down Syndrome. We know Michael didn’t have Digeorge Syndrome, there’s no mention of the deceased body having HIV, so why is the thymus missing? I can’t find a medical explanation for it!!!!
It is worth mentioning that removal of Thymus is highly unconventional & dangerous, the only time that a surgeon might decide to remove a thymus is in infants with sever heart defects that require heart surgery, the thymus in these cases sometimes have to be removed in order for the surgeon to have an unobstructed access to the heart. however this is not the case in older children or adults. Another very rare case that requires removal of thymus, which again I insist is very rare & it's a tough choice for a surgeon to make, is if a patient is suffering from Myasthenia gravis. Myasthenia gravis is a neuro-muscular disease leading to severe fluctuation of muscles & weakness & fatiguability. Again not all the cases of Myasthenia gravis require removal of thymus. Removal of thymus bears sever neurological side effects & it is a contributing factor in death of HIV patients. So why is the body missing the Thymus?]
Unfortunately, I can tell you from personal experience, the removal of the Thymus is very dangerous....my mother passed from Myasthenia. She was incredibly weak afterwards, people did not recognize her in the end...I'm done....gotta go cry.
Love to all...............Wishingstar
:cry: so sorry dear one. consider yourself hugged
-
wishingstar In truth i am sorry :cry:
-
Sorry to hear that about your mom wishingstar...
-
paula-c said: Endocrine System:
1.- The Thymus is not identified. [this report gets bizarre page by page, apparently the coroner was not able to find the thymus, so the dead body is missing his thymus. The thymus is a specialized organ of the immune system. In lupus patients the whole immune system becomes over active attacking the body’s tissues & organs. However in HIV AIDS patients the thymus will be damaged to the point that it cannot be identified in the body. Another cause for missing the thymus is a very rare birth defect called the Digeorge Syndrome, however people suffering from this syndrome have certain facial features that make them stand out, very much similar to Down Syndrome. We know Michael didn’t have Digeorge Syndrome, there’s no mention of the deceased body having HIV, so why is the thymus missing? I can’t find a medical explanation for it!!!!
It is worth mentioning that removal of Thymus is highly unconventional & dangerous, the only time that a surgeon might decide to remove a thymus is in infants with sever heart defects that require heart surgery, the thymus in these cases sometimes have to be removed in order for the surgeon to have an unobstructed access to the heart. however this is not the case in older children or adults. Another very rare case that requires removal of thymus, which again I insist is very rare & it's a tough choice for a surgeon to make, is if a patient is suffering from Myasthenia gravis. Myasthenia gravis is a neuro-muscular disease leading to severe fluctuation of muscles & weakness & fatiguability. Again not all the cases of Myasthenia gravis require removal of thymus. Removal of thymus bears sever neurological side effects & it is a contributing factor in death of HIV patients. So why is the body missing the Thymus?]
Unfortunately, I can tell you from personal experience, the removal of the Thymus is very dangerous....my mother passed from Myasthenia. She was incredibly weak afterwards, people did not recognize her in the end...I'm done....gotta go cry.
Love to all...............Wishingstar
Sorry to hear that Whishingstar, my prayers are with you. Blessings.
-
Endocrine System:
1.- The Thymus is not identified. [this report gets bizarre page by page, apparently the coroner was not able to find the thymus, so the dead body is missing his thymus. The thymus is a specialized organ of the immune system. In lupus patients the whole immune system becomes over active attacking the body’s tissues & organs. However in HIV AIDS patients the thymus will be damaged to the point that it cannot be identified in the body. Another cause for missing the thymus is a very rare birth defect called the Digeorge Syndrome, however people suffering from this syndrome have certain facial features that make them stand out, very much similar to Down Syndrome. We know Michael didn’t have Digeorge Syndrome, there’s no mention of the deceased body having HIV, so why is the thymus missing? I can’t find a medical explanation for it!!!!
It is worth mentioning that removal of Thymus is highly unconventional & dangerous, the only time that a surgeon might decide to remove a thymus is in infants with sever heart defects that require heart surgery, the thymus in these cases sometimes have to be removed in order for the surgeon to have an unobstructed access to the heart. however this is not the case in older children or adults. Another very rare case that requires removal of thymus, which again I insist is very rare & it's a tough choice for a surgeon to make, is if a patient is suffering from Myasthenia gravis. Myasthenia gravis is a neuro-muscular disease leading to severe fluctuation of muscles & weakness & fatiguability. Again not all the cases of Myasthenia gravis require removal of thymus. Removal of thymus bears sever neurological side effects & it is a contributing factor in death of HIV patients. So why is the body missing the Thymus?]
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=11440 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=11440)
What I mean with the last two post is that propablemte someone die that day in the house and the paramedicos not to recognize Michael, now the assumptions paramedicos that are in the ambulance can be actors.
If this person was missing his thymus it was not Michael. I had a childhood friend who had lupus, well she passed away at the age of 49 about 4 yrs ago, she had her thymus, nothing was missing. The ironic thing she did not die because of lupus, but because she had a pneumonia.
-
Good Morning Family! :mrgreen:
I am going to address the issue of someone calling 911 in a non-emergency situation. I have read that some of you feel/think that it is not ok to call 911 and that whoever does would be in trouble. True they would be in trouble just like this woman below. In a perfect world no one would abuse the 911 function. Since we do not live in a perfect world 911 is called ALL THE TIME for nonsense. There is no way that the court system can keep up with prosecuting every false call.
IMO the theory of 911 being called on the day of death being a FAKE call doesn't hold up. I believe that the call was REAL and that REAL paramedics responded and found a REAL patient.
As for the court...It is IMO a REAL court room with a REAL judge. The lawyers are REAL. The courts are filled with bogus charges and railroaded defendants ALL the time. False charges and made up evidence happened in Michael's trial in 2005. I do not see how what he is doing now is any different than what Snake Sneddon did to him then.
Think about how many people are falsely accused of stuff everyday. There is no way to know what is what until Justice is served. Justice is served when an accused person has their day in court. Justice is served when the system works. The accused has the right to a jury trial. The accused has the right to have evidence (whether false or real) heard by that jury and the accused must be found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt or they must be acquitted.
That is how Justice is served. ;) Michael is exposing the corruption in Los Angeles.
I do think more people need to realize that everything happening in this court case does happen on a daily to regular folks (non celebs) and just because we know it to be a hoax doesn't mean the others who think they are really prosecuting Murray know. They really believe they have a Murderer! :shock:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,504125,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,504125,00.html)
A Florida woman called 911 three times after she paid for a 10-piece Chicken McNuggets at a McDonald's but the fast-food restaurant ran out of them and refused to give her a refund.
(http://www.foxnews.com/images/516087/2_61_030309_mcnuggets_911.jpg)
Latreasa L. Goodman, 27, made the calls after she tried to get her money back from a Fort Pierce McDonald's and the cashier told her all sales were final. Police released the 911 tapes.
"This is an emergency. If I would have known they didn't have McNuggets, I wouldn't have given my money, and now she wants to give me a McDouble, but I don't want one," police quoted her as saying. "This is an emergency."
The cashier suggested she choose something else off the menu of equal value to the McNuggets, and offered the restaurant's cheeseburger called the McDouble.
"She's trying to force me to eat something off the menu and I don't want it," Goodman told 911.
The first dispatcher, a woman, asks if there's a manager there, but listens to Goodman's complaints and says she's sending someone.
The second, male dispatcher tells her he's aware of the incident and "we've got an officer coming out there to talk to you."
Police say Goodman was cited on a misuse of 911 charge. A current phone listing for Goodman couldn't be found.
A McDonald's spokesman said Goodman should have been given a refund, and she's being sent a gift card for a free meal.
-
Hi guys,
I'm not an avid reader of TS' posts (I truly apologize for that :oops: ) so maybe I do not understand the value of his post, but my question is what's the use of trying to figure this all out? I thought that, now we are (hopefully) getting closer to a possible bam, there will be more important reasons to learn about this hoax. I feel that this post of TS does not add any important information, except the fact Michaels death really was fake and staged. But we came to that conclusion a long time ago right? I haven't post much lately because I had the feeling we were running around in circles and I get that same feeling once again with this particular post. I hope someone can explain to me what's the reason for this post, what kind of information in it will help us to UNDERSTAND the reasons of the hoax? Hugs
I must have asked a really stupid question, because noone took the time to give me a (short) answer. I know I do not belong to the group of regular posters, but I'm a bit disappointed and I feel ignored. We can continue to repeat the same old stuff again and again but my question is: what's the use of it and aren't there much more important things to learn whether it is or isn't the same ambulance? Please fill me in!
Dear Do :) I have read your post but didn't know how to answer. For my part I'm just interested and curious about the hows of this hoax. I will say that trying to find out how things have been done will help us understand the reasons of the hoax because obviously when we dissect the hows we clearly see that a great length of time and risks have been necessary/taken in order to create it and make it possible. So it is not just for entertainment purposes. It will also certainly help us understand the upcoming trial. I don't know if it makes sense.
Dear Sharali, I'm sorry I didn't see your answer to me earlier! I want to thank you for your explanation and yes it does make sense! I understand what you are saying and it helps me to understand of TS' post better, but on the other hand, I still have the feeling that the smallest details are addressed again and again, I mean, the 'shadows' in the ambulance, what does that add to the investigation? I had expected and hoped that at this stage in the hoax, more important issues should be discussed through TS.
Thanks again! Hugs
-
Thank you from the bottom of my heart for the messages about my mom. Through this whole process I have revisited much of my personal pains in life. It's one of the things that kept me from joining this forum at first. However, when I saw how much you supported each other with things like this.....I knew I'd be ok here. The subject of death is truly painful for most people...naturally. I truly appreciate the sweet words and love. If going to the dark places of my heart, helps this investigation...I'll go.
Thank you again from the very bottom of my heart.
Wishingstar
-
Just wondering...
Do you think the cabinet from the pictures match the cabinet from the video? Wouldn't that white border show up in the pictures?
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12209)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12208)
Good catch! I'm glad somebody noticed this--it is one of the "secrets" that I have been planning on pointing out, if nobody found it. But I'm always glad when someone else finds it first. There is one more thing about this that I will include later, if nobody else gets it first.
TS, I was wondering what the other one more thing you were going to include. Did you write it to us already or someone else has found it or are you waiting for the ambulance research/discussion to end?
So far, I haven't seen anyone find the other thing on this. I'll give it a few more days for someone else to find it.
-
Thank you from the bottom of my heart for the messages about my mom. Through this whole process I have revisited much of my personal pains in life. It's one of the things that kept me from joining this forum at first. However, when I saw how much you supported each other with things like this.....I knew I'd be ok here. The subject of death is truly painful for most people...naturally. I truly appreciate the sweet words and love. If going to the dark places of my heart, helps this investigation...I'll go.
Thank you again from the very bottom of my heart.
Wishingstar
Dear Wishingstar,
Just like you comfort me with your pm to me, I want to say that my thoughts are with you right now. Big hug!
-
Here is an article about a pancake Breakfast Breakfast they hosted :
http://www.bigwheelmagazine.com/around_ ... e-13-2010/ (http://www.bigwheelmagazine.com/around_town/pancake-breakfast-at-fire-station-71-of-the-los-angeles-fire-department-los-angeles-ca-june-13-2010/)
Anyone look familiar? Paramedics?
Blessings Always!
Thank you for the link wishingstar. :)
http://www.teamgoonphotos.com/Random-Ha ... F/Original (http://www.teamgoonphotos.com/Random-Happenings/Breakfast-at-Fire-Station-71/12547601_GDjsM/1/900256782_D33FF/Original)
(http://www.teamgoonphotos.com/Random-Happenings/Breakfast-at-Fire-Station-71/23P1040409/900256782_D33FF-O.jpg)
This picture shows 2 men/paramedics from Fire station 71. Do you think maybe the black guy is the same one in the picture below? We only see the back of his head. The white guy posing in the picture (above) doesn't seem like the guy next to Alberto on the right. 3rd guy/paramedic is still suspect to me! lol
(http://www.bittenandbound.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/ambulance-arrives-at-hospital-with-michael-jackson.jpg)
(http://www.buzzchow.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/michael-jackson-hospital-385x386.jpg)
(http://www.cayman27.com.ky/app/webroot/files/t1home_michael_jackson_hospital_x17.jpg)
I think I may have identified the security so far as being Mike La Perruque (the guy with the mustache facing us), Alberto Alvarez (the guy with his back to us next to Murray), and who is the guy holding up his coat? Help please.
-
First of all, congratulations to everyone—you have been doing an excellent job on the 2-26 thread investigation! :) Second, today is graduation; it’s now time to take this investigation to the next level. :o 8-) Third, today is March 9—which is the two year anniversary of the amazing bull market rally that is still going, and which I related to God and the hoax a year ago in Update #4 (4-33). :shock: Fourth, speaking of update #4, that was my most detailed numerology post; and #4a was posted one year ago today (CA time), which was six months after 9-9-09. :geek: And fifth, speaking of numerology, it’s now time to start looking at how numerology unlocks and explains some of the hows of the hoax (in addition to explaining the when and why, which I have already discussed in great detail).
The next level means that we are now going to shift the focus from the ambulance picture (whether it was real or fake, etc) to whether or not some or all of the paramedics are in on the hoax. Did the actual paramedics pose for a staged ambulance shot before 6-25-09? Or did MJ use actors dressed like paramedics? Was the ambulance photo staged with the actual #71 LAFD ambulance, or another one that looks about the same inside? Would the real paramedics publicly deny the ambulance photo, if it was not them in the picture (and they were not in on the hoax)?
These and similar questions are now the focus of investigation. Yes, we have already discussed these things to some extent; but it has not been the focus before now. You may continue discussing the ambulance photo, if you want; and please keep that discussion in the proper thread {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053}.
Of course the ambulance photo is part of the evidence related to the paramedics, so the photo will still be discussed somewhat in this thread; but try to remember the focus of discussion in this thread. When it’s time to graduate again, I will start another thread with the focus of who or what (if anything) went to the hospital on the stretcher in the ambulance. We might need to discuss this a little now, but it’s not the focus yet; so let’s see what we can establish about the paramedics, before we focus on that aspect.
... This is why I started our investigation process with the ambulance photo; now we know that it was planned and staged in advance, so we have a good platform upon which we can build our next level of investigation.
Please remember to use common sense, in addition to forensic investigation and raw data analysis. For example: if the ambulance photo was staged before 6-25-09, why bother bringing the ambulance to Carolwood Drive—just to take a photo of things inside the ambulance? Why not stage the photo elsewhere, and indoors, where there would be a very low risk of the wrong people seeing what is going on? Also keep in mind the goals of the hoax; common sense should tell us that the only ones in on the hoax are those who need to know about it, in order to accomplish the goals. Why would MJ spend tons of money—and greatly increase the risk of someone letting the cat out of the bag too soon—just to have dozens or hundreds of people in on the hoax, who don’t need to be in on it?
Finally, just like last time, I may play “DA” (devil's advocate)—and try to debunk things that are true, just to keep you on your toes! Enjoy the ride!!
I don’t know how to start working out if the paramedics are ‘in on it’ or not, without addressing the ambulance issue. I said in a previous post that the photos displayed of the ambulance at UCLA do not match (which they don’t). Can light reflections hit the doors in such a way to make the white letters ‘para...’ on a red background change in appearance to be red letters on a white background? I think a photo at UCLA has been altered deliberately. Why? Maybe so that when we look at the ambulance that we saw leave the house (supposedly with a dying Michael Jackson) we will notice that it has no reflector - which then might make us notice the other differences between the two ambulances - the silver part at the tail, and the location of the word ‘Fire’ in relation to the compartment at the top.
I found the information I referred to in my first post in this thread. See this link for comparison photos of the ambulance leaving the house, with the ambulance at UCLA amhttp://arvenru.wordpress.com/2010/09/01/551/ (http://amhttp://arvenru.wordpress.com/2010/09/01/551/)).
The photo of the ambulance leaving the house that was posted by mdc is a better view of the differences and can be found in the Index page.
It's probably just an optical illusion with the angles and everything but the ambulance in the "proof" photo looks longer to me than the one at the hospital.
[attachment=2:1rawyfh5]ambulance_4_proof_pic.jpg[/attachment:1rawyfh5]
[attachment=1:1rawyfh5]ambulance-arrives-at-hospital-with-michael-jackson.jpg[/attachment:1rawyfh5]
And maybe this light/reflector on ambulance from this video looks different...not as flat?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuXRaJFdmKU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuXRaJFdmKU)
[attachment=1:1rawyfh5]ambulance light1.jpg[/attachment:1rawyfh5]
OK, I don’t have a theory yet, but I do think that understanding what's going on with the ambulances might be important to understanding what's going on with the paramedics. Was the fake exit of a fake ambulance filmed 'the other day' - perhaps garbage day which is Wednesday for that address.[attachment=0:1rawyfh5]1.35b Garbage bins.jpg[/attachment:1rawyfh5]
-
Elsa wrote: OK, I don’t have a theory yet, but I do think that understanding what's going on with the ambulances might be important to understanding what's going on with the paramedics. Was the fake exit of a fake ambulance filmed 'the other day' - perhaps garbage day which is Wednesday for that address
If there had been NO other witnesses i'd be inclined to agree, but there were the tourists on the starline bus who saw this happening on june 25...
-
Elsa wrote: OK, I don’t have a theory yet, but I do think that understanding what's going on with the ambulances might be important to understanding what's going on with the paramedics. Was the fake exit of a fake ambulance filmed 'the other day' - perhaps garbage day which is Wednesday for that address
If there had been NO other witnesses i'd be inclined to agree, but there were the tourists on the starline bus who saw this happening on june 25...
You're right. They would come forward and say they saw it on Wednesday - unless they're part of the hoax which would increase the number involved. mmm Still thinking...
-
Elsa wrote: OK, I don’t have a theory yet, but I do think that understanding what's going on with the ambulances might be important to understanding what's going on with the paramedics. Was the fake exit of a fake ambulance filmed 'the other day' - perhaps garbage day which is Wednesday for that address
If there had been NO other witnesses i'd be inclined to agree, but there were the tourists on the starline bus who saw this happening on june 25...
You're right. They would come forward and say they saw it on Wednesday - unless they're part of the hoax which would increase the number involved. mmm Still thinking...
I would imagine that the starline bus has a regular schedule and probably goes by the Carolwood house around the same time(s) everyday. I think the ambulance and firetrucks at Carolwood were timed to be there around the same time on June 25th, so there would be genuine witnesses that something was happening at MJ's house.
-
I am not sure if you are asking to point to more differences.
-
My previous post was related to this quote.
So far, I haven't seen anyone find the other thing on this. I'll give it a few more days for someone else to find it.
-
Thank you from the bottom of my heart for the messages about my mom. Through this whole process I have revisited much of my personal pains in life. It's one of the things that kept me from joining this forum at first. However, when I saw how much you supported each other with things like this.....I knew I'd be ok here. The subject of death is truly painful for most people...naturally. I truly appreciate the sweet words and love. If going to the dark places of my heart, helps this investigation...I'll go.
Thank you again from the very bottom of my heart.
Wishingstar
Wishingstar....I can feel your pain my Dear...I lost my Mother last June...she never told us how sick she was, it was a total shock, but we would sit and watch videos of Michael and talk about things that I would read here. It actually was comforting for me here after she was gone because she shared this adventure here with me. I would have never thought that God would use Michael to comfort me in a sudden loss of my mother. God is so good and Loves us so much! God Bless you Michael!!!
-
Just wondering...
Do you think the cabinet from the pictures match the cabinet from the video? Wouldn't that white border show up in the pictures?
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12209)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12208)
Good catch! I'm glad somebody noticed this--it is one of the "secrets" that I have been planning on pointing out, if nobody found it. But I'm always glad when someone else finds it first. There is one more thing about this that I will include later, if nobody else gets it first.
TS, I was wondering what the other one more thing you were going to include. Did you write it to us already or someone else has found it or are you waiting for the ambulance research/discussion to end?
So far, I haven't seen anyone find the other thing on this. I'll give it a few more days for someone else to find it.
I focused on the pictures of the inside of the ambulance. It looks like stuff is placed on the opposite side,seems like the other side of the mirror.I know I am probably wrong I think maybe I just focused to hard on the picture... :shock: .lol
-
I think we should keep the discussion of the ambulance picture in the TIAI february 26 thread, and continue here with the paramedics and their involvement.
-
Even the paramedics discussed the issue of privacy.
I do not believe they were involved ...other than to do their jobs.
http://connect.jems.com/forum/topics/mi ... 1#comments (http://connect.jems.com/forum/topics/michael-jackson-ems-response?id=2559935%3ATopic%3A211161&page=1#comments)
Michael Jackson EMS Response Details Emerge
JEMS.com -- There are some interesting stories and links related to the EMS response to Michael Jackson's cardiac emergency on Thursday.
TMZ is reporting that first arriving responders felt that Jackson was dead on arrival, but Jackson's personal doctor would not permit them to pronounce him dead.
The 911 called was released Friday afternoon with the caller reporting that Jackson was on a bed, not breathing and that a doctor was already attempting CPR. The caller says repeatedly Jackson was not responding to anything. "We have a gentlemen here, who needs help ... he's not breathing, we're trying to pump but ... he's not breathing." the caller says, not identifying Jackson by name. "He's unconscious."
"The LAFD received a 911 call for a 50 year old male who was not breathing and unresponsive. Engine 71 and paramedic rescue ambulance 71 responded and was on scene within a few minutes," Marc Eckstein, MD, MPH, FACEP, Medical Director of the Los Angeles Fire Department, told JEMS.com. "They found Mr. Jackson in full cardiac arrest with CPR in progress."
"LAFD members immediately took over CPR and intiated both basic and advanced life support interventions," Eckstein continued. "They aggressively attempted resuscitation on scene for approximately 30 minutes, and after consultation with on-line medical control at the UCLA base station, they continued resuscitative efforts during the short transport to the UCLA emergency department. There was no change in the patient's status during his prehospital course."
TMZ's report said there was evidence someone had been performing CPR for "quite some time" and possibly evidence of Lidocaine being administered. "He's pumping on his chest, but he's not responding to anything," the caller says as the 911 operator indicates help is on the way and instructs the caller to move Jackson from the bed to the floor.
Several videos and photos of the EMS units in action have been circulating online, including the video below of LAFD's Medic 71 and its Engine Company transporting the scene.
Oddly, at the end of the video, a bus full of tourists seeing star's homes drives by and is held up as the ambulance leaves the scene. Video shot by those tourists is posted on TMZ.com as well.
One of the most graphic photos showed up early on Entertainment Tonight's Web site, showing EMS crews working on an intubated Jackson in what appears to be the back of the paramedic unit. (Link Here -- Note this is a graphic photo OF a patient We are providing a link to this photo as it has appeared on major media for the last 24 hours). Based on other video, the photo was likely taken as the unit backed out of the driveway.
In the photo, medics can be seen doing compressions and ventilating Jackson. While this is an extreme case, it is always important to remember that cameras are everywhere now and while you may protect your patient's privacy, the public (and media) may not.
The Associated Press reported that medics tried to resuscitate Jackson for nearly three-quarters of an hour, then rushed him to the hospital, where doctors continued to work on him.
As for the doctor, he is being sought for questioning but is not a suspect in any wrongdoing at this point, according to multiple media reports. The Jackson family and others had been reported as being concerned about a possible overdose of prescription drugs. An autopsy was underway Friday.
Our friends at STATter911.com note that the pictures circulating of Medic 71 are making it the most famous ambulance in the world.
911 Call in Michael Jackson Death Released
By RAQUEL MARIA DILLON
Associated Press Writer
LOS ANGELES -- A 911 caller seeking help for Michael Jackson told an emergency operator that only a personal physician had seen what happened, and an ambulance was urgently needed because resuscitation efforts weren't working.
The Los Angeles Fire Department on Friday released a redacted audio recording of the call made Thursday by a person who only referred to Jackson as a 50-year-old man. It appeared that a mention of the phone number was deleted from the recording.
"I need an ambulance as soon as possible, sir," the caller said urgently but politely. "We have a gentlemen here that needs help and he's not breathing yet. He's not breathing and we need to _ we're trying to pump him, but he's not, he's not."
The caller reported that Jackson was on a bed and the emergency operator began to instruct him to do CPR, but stopped when the caller said that the personal physician was there.
"Oh, OK. We're on our way there. If your guy is doing CPR and you're instructed by a doctor, he's a higher authority than me. And he's on the scene," the 911 operator said.
The operator asked if anyone witnessed what happened.
"No, just the doctor, sir, the doctor was the only one there," the caller said.
"Did he see what happened?" the operator asked.
"Doctor, did you see what happened, sir?" the caller asked someone in the room. Only an urgent mumbling can be heard on the recording.
"We're on our way. It's less than a mile away from Cedars," the operator said, referring to Cedars-Sinai Medical Center.
Paramedics, however, took Jackson to Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical Center, where he was later pronounced dead.
Reply by JEMS Web Chief on June 26, 2009 at 3:26pm
Anna, we have linked (and clarified that the photos are graphic) to a photo that is already very widely posted across the internet. This site is for EMS professionals, not the general public ... and the takeaway should be that the public is always watching (and taking photos) ... in this case through a closed ambulance door/window. There are lessons to be learned for all. There is value in understanding that even when crews think they are not being watched, recorded, etc. even on the most routine call, in these times they should expect that anything can end up online.
(Note: User appears to have removed original comment about link to the photo taken inside Medic 71)
*
▶ Reply
*
Anne Marsh Permalink Reply by Anne Marsh on June 26, 2009 at 3:26pm
Please don't be so naive.
Anna Bonner said:
I am really quite saddened that this forum of professionals would contribute to the distribution of photos of a patient. If this were to happen to any of our own patients, we would be outraged. Really JEMS? I thought you were better than this.
*
▶ Reply
*
Anna Permalink Reply by Anna on June 26, 2009 at 3:35pm
You do realize I removed that because it has my name on it. Thanks for reposting though. I just think it is wholly unprofessional and unethical. Just because others are posting it, doesn't mean you need to. You can make your point that people are always watching without providing access to the pictures.
*
▶ Reply
*
the Happy Medic Permalink Reply by the Happy Medic on June 26, 2009 at 3:57pm
Let's all remember that if I posted a photo similar to this anywhere online I would be fired and sued. This is unprofessional by the photographer and the media who choose to show it. I think having a link to it in this forum is simply hitching the cart to the publicity show.
I personally think moving a patient of this stature out of the home and into a more secure location, like the hospital, was a scene safety decision, and a good one.
But links to something like this on JEMS connect I think brings the forum down a notch. Will it also be the cover photo for the next JEMS magazine?
My 2 cents
Happy Medic
*
▶ Reply
*
Dawn Burrows Permalink Reply by Dawn Burrows on June 26, 2009 at 4:01pm
Sadly there are cameras everywhere now. People use them for all types of reasons. Which means we all need to be vigilant while working not only for our own protection but that of our patient. I don't agree that it was unprofessional for JEMS to post a link to the picture that is wide spread on the net. We would have found it anyway. If it was unprofessional then you could make the argument that all pictures of patients both critical and non were unprofessional to publish. I don't think that this was published with malicious intent but in an effort to educate which is what JEMS is in the business of doing.
I am more curious about the doctor on scene and some reports that the doctor "made" the paramedics continue to work him even though they wished to pronounce him deceased on the scene. I have the authority to pronounce patients on scene without a doctor consult. And a doctor on scene doesn't have the ability to dictate my care unless I work under his direction. But I am on the other side of the country. Are the laws in CA very different? Did the medics on scene have an obligation to work as the physician on scene dictated or was it more of a decision to reduce friction on scene?
*
▶ Reply
*
Dawn Burrows Permalink Reply by Dawn Burrows on June 26, 2009 at 4:11pm
Happy do you really think moving the body of a person of that stature is a really good idea? I would think that it would be more secure behind the gates of his home, inside and away from a bus load of tourists and paprazzi. Who as we have seen will go to any lengths to get a picture or clip. He could have been moved the ME's office on a gurney and covered. then all they would have gotten was pictures of the body bag and not the indignity of having CPR preformed for all the world to see. They weren't getting past those gates or those guards. The average ER is not very secure at all. No matter what they do to try and lock it down. The moving just allows for more picture taking. Hmm You have me thinking this will make a good blog post!
the Happy Medic said:
Let's all remember that if I posted a photo similar to this anywhere online I would be fired and sued. This is unprofessional by the photographer and the media who choose to show it. I think having a link to it in this forum is simply hitching the cart to the publicity show.
I personally think moving a patient of this stature out of the home and into a more secure location, like the hospital, was a scene safety decision, and a good one.
But links to something like this on JEMS connect I think brings the forum down a notch. Will it also be the cover photo for the next JEMS magazine?
My 2 cents
Happy Medic
*
▶ Reply
*
JEMS Web Chief Permalink Reply by JEMS Web Chief on June 26, 2009 at 4:15pm
We've added some additional information in the story from LAFD's medical director.
Good point on both sides of the photo debate. The entire situation is what is great -- and bad -- about the Web.
*
▶ Reply
*
Squishymedic Permalink Reply by Squishymedic on June 26, 2009 at 4:27pm
Is it me? Or does the 911 operator's professionalism needs a little tweeking? Not the best operator I've ever heard.
*
▶ Reply
*
Joe Paczkowski Permalink Reply by Joe Paczkowski on June 26, 2009 at 4:37pm
Dawn Burrows said:
If it was unprofessional then you could make the argument that all pictures of patients both critical and non were unprofessional to publish. I don't think that this was published with malicious intent but in an effort to educate which is what JEMS is in the business of doing.
Sure. I'll make the argument that publishing pictures of patients outside of educational materials is unethical without written consent. Just because it's widely available doesn't mean it should be published. In riot situations, if everyone is else is looting and the like, does that all of a sudden make it ok? When programs like TLC's Trauma or Paramedics tape patients, consent is given before those video are published.
What educational material is being passed on by the video of an ambulance backing out of a driveway or linking to a picture of Jackson being ventilated via ETT?
I am more curious about the doctor on scene and some reports that the doctor "made" the paramedics continue to work him even though they wished to pronounce him deceased on the scene. I have the authority to pronounce patients on scene without a doctor consult. And a doctor on scene doesn't have the ability to dictate my care unless I work under his direction. But I am on the other side of the country. Are the laws in CA very different? Did the medics on scene have an obligation to work as the physician on scene dictated or was it more of a decision to reduce friction on scene?
LA County EMS protocols:
Cardiac arrest:
(step 13 under asystole/PEA and step 21 for V-fib/Pulseless V-tac) If resuscitative efforts are unsuccessful, consider base contact for pronouncement.
http://ems.dhs.lacounty.gov/ManualsProt ... FTP-CA.pdf (http://ems.dhs.lacounty.gov/ManualsProtocols/SFTP/SFTP-CA.pdf)
Physician on scene protocol:
http://ems.dhs.lacounty.gov/policies/Ref800/816.pdf (http://ems.dhs.lacounty.gov/policies/Ref800/816.pdf)
*
▶ Reply
*
Skip Kirkwood Permalink Reply by Skip Kirkwood on June 26, 2009 at 4:46pm
Heaven help our profession! The level of whining and hypercriticality in this post take it to a new level.
Unless you have evidence to the contrary, how about assuming (before you express your outrage) that:
1. The medics involved are professionals and did the best they could under the circumstances.
2. Circumstances, including celebrity, make things difficult.
3. When a person puts themselves in the public domain, they have a lesser expectation of privacy anyway.
4. Somebody took a picture - probably not an EMS person.
5. Once the picture is in the public domain, it's there. You can't un-ring the bell.
6. JEMS is here to educate us, about whatever goes on in our industry.
Yowzer! We are like a pack of jackals with a crippled wildebeast! Tear 'em to shreds without knowing all the facts.
Let's learn instead......
*
▶ Reply
*
Dawn Burrows Permalink Reply by Dawn Burrows on June 26, 2009 at 4:56pm
Hey Joe Thanks for posting those links. I always appreciate the ability to learn what it is like somewhere else. I stand by my position that it was not unprofessional to post that link. With the intent to educate us on how easy it can be for some people to violate the inside of our trucks, I think JEMS was within their rights and we should take it as lesson learned.
Skip,
I am not sure if you are referring to my posts or not. If so I never intended for the impression that I was critizing the medics. We all make difficult decisions while in the course of our jobs. I don't fault them for any of the decisions that were made. I may have made some of the same ones if put in their place. I was more curious about the role that an on scene doctor can play in the decision making processes and what the rules in CA were. Joe was nice enough to clear those up for me.
Skip Kirkwood said:
Heaven help our profession! The level of whining and hypercriticality in this post take it to a new level.
Unless you have evidence to the contrary, how about assuming (before you express your outrage) that:
1. The medics involved are professionals and did the best they could under the circumstances.
2. Circumstances, including celebrity, make things difficult.
3. When a person puts themselves in the public domain, they have a lesser expectation of privacy anyway.
4. Somebody took a picture - probably not an EMS person.
5. Once the picture is in the public domain, it's there. You can't un-ring the bell.
6. JEMS is here to educate us, about whatever goes on in our industry.
Yowzer! We are like a pack of jackals with a crippled wildebeast! Tear 'em to shreds without knowing all the facts.
Let's learn instead......
*
▶ Reply
*
Jerry Permalink Reply by Jerry on June 26, 2009 at 5:02pm
I took a class at an EMS Today conference (in San Diego and there were 65 attendees!). One of the presenters was an attorney by the name of Jack Ayers from Dallas(?). He made the point that when the feces strikes the oscillating device, rule one is "Speak first, Speak Fast, it is the only thing EVERYBODY (his emphasis) will remember." He added," Know what you are talking about."
Even in this topic seems like good advice to me. . .
Reply by Joe Paczkowski on June 26, 2009 at 5:04pm
Skip:
1, 2, 4: I agree with.
3: I agree with, to a point. Maybe it's because I grew up in So Cal, but I honestly couldn't give two units of fecal material about celebs. They may have a lesser expectation of privacy, but you still see medical staff getting in trouble for accessing medical files of celebs and for the release of information.
5: So what? There was a case in Orange County, CA almost 3 years ago where a teenager 'borrowed' (can't think of a good term and I don't want to go with the connotation of "stole") her father's Porshe, and promptly crashed it into a concrete toll booth at an extremely high rate of speed. Two California Highway Patrol (CHP) leaked rather graphic photos of the incident. I would make the same argument that it would be unethical for JEMS to publish pictures of that accident as part of a "Girl borrows Porshe and dies in a horrible crash" piece. Now something along the lines of 'Be careful taking pictures on scene' with one of the non-graphic pictures accompanying the article would be completely different.
6. How is Michael Jackson dying news worthy in an EMS context? Seriously, a two sentence blurb about cameras and privacy doesn't really cut it.
*
▶ Reply
*
Skip Kirkwood Permalink Reply by Skip Kirkwood on June 26, 2009 at 5:39pm
3. The medical staff shouldn't do that - it's a violation of oh so many things. Not the point here. These were lay-person photos. Celebs expect their lives to be invaded by the public, the paperazzi, etc.
5. Again, shame on the CHPs - profssionally inappropriate. Graphic? Non-graphic? Matter of judgment. Me, I don't consider a pix of a guy being resuscitated to be graphic. But then again, for 30+ years I've been in an environment (EMS) where every possible injury, illness, body part and function are discussed over coffee and donuts.
6. The physician-on-scene issues and M71 issues are interesting, and perhaps called to more attention by the fact that involved a celebrity. Gotta start somewhere - if JEMS took the time to make every story firmly educational, they would be forever trumped by someone else's reporting.
*
▶ Reply
*
Joe Paczkowski Permalink Reply by Joe Paczkowski on June 26, 2009 at 5:47pm
5. I agree that the picture of Jackson is not graphic at all. The Orange County picture, on the other hand, is something that you would see on the shock style websites.
*
▶ Reply
*
the Happy Medic Permalink Reply by the Happy Medic on June 26, 2009 at 6:32pm
Imagine Medic 71 declares, under protocols to terminate reciscitative efforts, or not begin them, again under protocols, they have to await ME arrival for chain of custody. Now imagine M71 trapped in that litle cul de sac/driveway/neighborhood as the press arrive and swarm, as they always do. The UCLA Medical Center (not every little ER, I know) has their own police force and security staff able to establish a perimiter and handle the barrage of media and onlookers.
I think a more important topic of discussion in the JEMS forum would be about dealing with "celebrity" and how to help these folks remain just as anonymous as the rest of us. If these were photos of my mother online intubated I would be fuming mad, we all should be at this blatant intrusion into someone's privacy, public figure or not.
We all know clearly from the Trooper vs EMT video that cameras are everywhere.
I have seen no evidence the folks working the rigs that day took any photos and I hope we never learn who they were, for their sakes.
Dawn Burrows said:
Happy do you really think moving the body of a person of that stature is a really good idea? I would think that it would be more secure behind the gates of his home, inside and away from a bus load of tourists and paprazzi. Who as we have seen will go to any lengths to get a picture or clip. He could have been moved the ME's office on a gurney and covered. then all they would have gotten was pictures of the body bag and not the indignity of having CPR preformed for all the world to see. They weren't getting past those gates or those guards. The average ER is not very secure at all. No matter what they do to try and lock it down. The moving just allows for more picture taking. Hmm You have me thinking this will make a good blog post!
the Happy Medic said:
Let's all remember that if I posted a photo similar to this anywhere online I would be fired and sued. This is unprofessional by the photographer and the media who choose to show it. I think having a link to it in this forum is simply hitching the cart to the publicity show.
I personally think moving a patient of this stature out of the home and into a more secure location, like the hospital, was a scene safety decision, and a good one.
But links to something like this on JEMS connect I think brings the forum down a notch. Will it also be the cover photo for the next JEMS magazine?
My 2 cents
Happy Medic
*
▶ Reply
*
EMSismyLyfe Permalink Reply by EMSismyLyfe on June 26, 2009 at 7:16pm
To somewhat stay on topic of JEMS purpose for posting this story with the link that cameras are everywhere at anytime and photos can be taken by civillians, media, paparrazzi, whomever... whenever.... I ask this question....
With all the designs we take into consideration with ambulance building. With all the safety features, etc that are considered when designing/ordering/buying an ambulance.... can the side door window and the back door windows not be made of a one-way mirrored type glass? Not particularly a mirror on the outside, I can see the dangers of the sunlight hitting that just right and "blinding" other drivers on the road, but a type of tinted one way glass. I would think that would protect celebrities from media, paparrazzi or whomever is after a picture in an unfortunate time, such as evidenced in the link. And not only celebrities, but I work in a county next door to our own Skip Kirkwood that is riddled with gangs, violence, shootings and stabbings.... I would think it'd also protect the Medics inside of the ambulance from those looking in. I've been in a situation where the ambulance was surrounded by bystanders on the scene of a gang related shooting and the truck was actually being rocked... our sideboards were being rode on by anger raged people, our tailgate, anywhere they could get. Police couldn't get them all off.... we were being directed by PD to just keep in motion and don't stop. It was really an out of control scene, but that's the gangs here and how they can act. Retalliation towards EMS & Fire that transported and aided in saving a shooting victim has been threatened to us by them seeing who transported the victim. I would think a one-way window would be a means of protection and privacy both. Any ideas on it? Pros? Cons? I'm interested in others feedback on this idea.
*
▶ Reply
*
Joe Paczkowski Permalink Reply by Joe Paczkowski on June 26, 2009 at 9:17pm
EMSismyLife:
My current company has two of the three ambulances outfitted with graphics over the rear windows similar to what is seen here: http://www.customautotrim.com/window-graphics/ (http://www.customautotrim.com/window-graphics/)
The graphic is white (matches the base color of the ambulance) with a blue star of life in the middle. Graphics like this would work perfectly in So Cal since the one downside I've had working with them is that the rear windows become blocked when ever wet. Other than that, I've had no problems looking out the windows either when in the back or when driving.
Also, several manufacturers, notably Horton, have started equipping the side windows with liquid crystal technology that allows the windows to be made opaque with a throw of a switch.
http://www.hortonambulance.com/featurePrivacy.php (http://www.hortonambulance.com/featurePrivacy.php)
*
▶ Reply
*
EMSismyLyfe Permalink Reply by EMSismyLyfe on June 26, 2009 at 9:31pm
Joe, thanks for the links. I would think with these features out there..... especially the Opaque window... that would be something that areas with high celebrity concentration would use as an added form of security & privacy for both the pt & the crew. Although I don't feel the picture of Jackson that was published was of any fault to the crew but I would HATE to see them come under fire for the photos. (Even if it didn't happen with the Jackson case but the possibility of another celeb in the future)
Joe P. said:
EMSismyLife:
My current company has two of the three ambulances outfitted with graphics over the rear windows similar to what is seen here: http://www.customautotrim.com/window-graphics/ (http://www.customautotrim.com/window-graphics/)
The graphic is white (matches the base color of the ambulance) with a blue star of life in the middle. Graphics like this would work perfectly in So Cal since the one downside I've had working with them is that the rear windows become blocked when ever wet. Other than that, I've had no problems looking out the windows either when in the back or when driving.
Also, several manufacturers, notably Horton, have started equipping the side windows with liquid crystal technology that allows the windows to be made opaque with a throw of a switch.
http://www.hortonambulance.com/featurePrivacy.php (http://www.hortonambulance.com/featurePrivacy.php)
*
▶ Reply
*
The Cannulator Permalink Reply by The Cannulator on June 27, 2009 at 5:40am
So what is the purpose of this thread then? I'm lost.
As for the public domain, celebs do leave themselves open to ridicule and exposure. However, there are enough sites to debate the hypothetical, remember the star and so on Facebook.
This is the time for EMS to show some leadership and perhaps just shut up about the whole case until some concrete details are known, and then a more realistic discussion can take place. if anything right now remember, you never know who is watching.
And perhaps realise that every thread here can be read without being a member. Which is really pretty bloody stupid.
*
▶ Reply
*
John Dillon Permalink Reply by John Dillon on June 27, 2009 at 9:24am
One thing we need to remember with photos, is if I respond to a call as an EMS professional, the patient deserves, and frankly the law requires confidentiality. In regards to the post about being fired you are correct, and you should be severely disciplined if you took a photo like this and posted while on duty. However, if I was Joe Public, I can take any photo I want as long as I do so legally. And essentially as long as I am not on private property, I can take a photo of anything I want, even something on private property as long as it is viewable from public property. There are some exception, but this photo, sadly is totally legal. And to publish it? Well we now see images all the time of victims of violence, wars, posted all over the place and on many media sites, and quite frankly with even more detail. It is the world we live in, and it is a wake up call to everyone, just ask the Oklahoma Trooper this, always assume someone is watching. I could argue that this image, even as some people are not happy with it, can serve to show that the EMS crew in this case was just not "Ambulance Drivers", transporting a body, they where delivering advanced level care. Photos create emotion, that is why they are used. We may not always like it, but in this case it was not only legal, it was tame compared to some the images I saw this past week many national news sites.
*
▶ Reply
*
Joe Paczkowski Permalink Reply by Joe Paczkowski on June 27, 2009 at 11:33am
Legal and ethical are two different concepts.
*
▶ Reply
*
Mark Case Permalink Reply by Mark Case on June 27, 2009 at 12:47pm
Please forgive me but, they do make an option on ambulances that the windows be operated by a switch becomes privacy glass make the inside non-visible to the public. it has to asked for when ordering new ambulance. don't see why lafd would not have this due to having celebs being transported by them..
EMSismyLyfe said:
To somewhat stay on topic of JEMS purpose for posting this story with the link that cameras are everywhere at anytime and photos can be taken by civillians, media, paparrazzi, whomever... whenever.... I ask this question....
With all the designs we take into consideration with ambulance building. With all the safety features, etc that are considered when designing/ordering/buying an ambulance.... can the side door window and the back door windows not be made of a one-way mirrored type glass? Not particularly a mirror on the outside, I can see the dangers of the sunlight hitting that just right and "blinding" other drivers on the road, but a type of tinted one way glass. I would think that would protect celebrities from media, paparrazzi or whomever is after a picture in an unfortunate time, such as evidenced in the link. And not only celebrities, but I work in a county next door to our own Skip Kirkwood that is riddled with gangs, violence, shootings and stabbings.... I would think it'd also protect the Medics inside of the ambulance from those looking in. I've been in a situation where the ambulance was surrounded by bystanders on the scene of a gang related shooting and the truck was actually being rocked... our sideboards were being rode on by anger raged people, our tailgate, anywhere they could get. Police couldn't get them all off.... we were being directed by PD to just keep in motion and don't stop. It was really an out of control scene, but that's the gangs here and how they can act. Retalliation towards EMS & Fire that transported and aided in saving a shooting victim has been threatened to us by them seeing who transported the victim. I would think a one-way window would be a means of protection and privacy both. Any ideas on it? Pros? Cons? I'm interested in others feedback on this idea.
*
▶ Reply
*
EMSismyLyfe Permalink Reply by EMSismyLyfe on June 27, 2009 at 3:05pm
Mark, I now know they do. Someone posted a link yesterday that showed who makes it and how it works. I'm not involved with the ordering/outfitting of our trucks so I was not aware if it was an option or not. I know our trucks don't have them but it would sure be a nice safety feature! I am like you tho, LAFD knows they transport celebs and they know of the paparazzi craze there and I would think that would be an option they'd want to have. I also think it would be a good idea in cities that the celebs are known to frequent IE: Miami, NYC, Atl, Chicago, Vegas... just to name a few. We just had Orlando Bloom and a few other celebs here filming a movie and it became a big hoorahhh for people to flock to where he was rumored to be at the time. They obviously go to the smaller cities & towns, too but I don't think it's as much of a security issue/worry about photogs, etc as in the bigger cities where celebs are known to frequent.
I'd be interested to know just how much more the opaque windows are in comparisson to regular windows. It'll be a little bird I will be putting in our Directors ear for our next ambulance (which sadly won't be for a long while with the budget restraints.)
Reply by Mark Case on June 27, 2009 at 3:59pm
the ambulance company next town over has them and they used them on a domestic case to hide the woman from her husband. they turned out all the lights inside them hit the switch for the windows and got her out of there and her husband never knew it. So please share this little bit of evidence to put it in for your next ambulance. yes it does work.
*
▶ Reply
*
Dave Andrus Permalink Reply by Dave Andrus on June 30, 2009 at 12:36pm
"can the side door window and the back door windows not be made of a one-way mirrored type glass? Not particularly a mirror on the outside, I can see the dangers of the sunlight hitting that just right and "blinding" other drivers on the road, but a type of tinted one way glass."
Great idea... even if only a "limo-tint" I think it would be an idea worth incorporating. I too have had situations in which angry people outside the truck were trying to look into the truck, and can immediately see the safety value of such an improvement, as well as discouraging the "morbidly curious". Additionally, what about designing an easy-to-incorporate retrofit for existing ambulances (for example, the window-films).
I would love to see an upgrade like that become a standard feature on our ambulance/engine fleet.
*
▶ Reply
*
Michoel Bloom Permalink Reply by Michoel Bloom on July 6, 2009 at 9:45pm
Horton, has the best privacy windows on the market for Ambulances, you push a button and the window instantly goes opaque. This should be a more common feature for ambulances. This isn't the first, and unfortunately, won't be the last time the media videos through a window. (remember britney Spears?)
-
Thank you from the bottom of my heart for the messages about my mom. Through this whole process I have revisited much of my personal pains in life. It's one of the things that kept me from joining this forum at first. However, when I saw how much you supported each other with things like this.....I knew I'd be ok here. The subject of death is truly painful for most people...naturally. I truly appreciate the sweet words and love. If going to the dark places of my heart, helps this investigation...I'll go.
Thank you again from the very bottom of my heart.
Wishingstar
Wishingstar....I can feel your pain my Dear...I lost my Mother last June...she never told us how sick she was, it was a total shock, but we would sit and watch videos of Michael and talk about things that I would read here. It actually was comforting for me here after she was gone because she shared this adventure here with me. I would have never thought that God would use Michael to comfort me in a sudden loss of my mother. God is so good and Loves us so much! God Bless you Michael!!!
I have chills navibl.......thank you for sharing that. It was so heart-warming, indeed. Though, I am very sorry to hear of your loss, I am grateful to hear how you have dealt with things. Sounds like your mother was an amazing person.....what a sweetheart. Thank you so much, navibl. You are a blessing!
Have a beautiful day!
LOVE
-
What about this photo from that Pancake Breakfast:
http://www.teamgoonphotos.com/Random-Ha ... uLs/Medium (http://www.teamgoonphotos.com/Random-Happenings/Breakfast-at-Fire-Station-71/12547601_GDjsM/1/900255943_rxuLs/Medium)
The picture is of the station office, I guess? What gets me are the photos on the wall. Can anyone zoom in on them.......sorry for just a link....... :oops:
Blessings!
-
Wishingstar and Navibl, I'm so sorry for your loss. I lost my mother suddenly many years ago when I was 21, and some aspects of the hoax do bring me back.
Wishingstar and Genafelicia, you must both be into mathematics. I asked my math student son to explain and he went into a whole description, over my head. :lol:
About that pancake breakfast, I’ll bet MJ gave that fire station 71 a hefty donation, perhaps even paid for the event.
Thanks for the link, 2good2btrue. You put together some good things on that thread that I recommend others check out. "This is the topic about all the same people, acting out the same roles...
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=9059&hilit=+all+the+actors+in+this+hoax (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=9059&hilit=+all+the+actors+in+this+hoax)
RunFaYaLife, very interesting discussion by emergency medical insiders. Just some things that caught my eye. They talk a lot about many people having cameras (yet only Ben's cameraman took a pic) and no EM person said it was wrong person. Somehow paps also took a pic of Britney Spears (helps us compare shots through tinted window).
"We're on our way. It's less than a mile away from Cedars," the operator said, referring to Cedars-Sinai Medical Center.
Paramedics, however, took Jackson to Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical Center, where he was later pronounced dead.
Wonder why?
And perhaps realise that every thread here can be read without being a member. Which is really pretty bloody stupid.
No privacy now-a-days! :lol: We sure manage to get our eyes everywhere, nothing hidden with MJDHI.
-
Wishingstar and Ginafelicia, you must both be into mathematics. I asked my math student son to explain and he went into a whole description, over my head. :lol:
Actually I remember not very much from high-school, when the comunists were torturing us with high mathematics !! Glad those days are gone :D I hated it, but I still remember the formula of k-combinations of n :lol:
I never knew I'll use it 20 years later to determine Michael Jackson's chances of being alive after he died :shock:
-
:lol: Ya never know when past experiences will help you with this hoax. It's taking all we've got!
-
Here is an article about a pancake Breakfast Breakfast they hosted :
http://www.bigwheelmagazine.com/around_ ... e-13-2010/ (http://www.bigwheelmagazine.com/around_town/pancake-breakfast-at-fire-station-71-of-the-los-angeles-fire-department-los-angeles-ca-june-13-2010/)
Anyone look familiar? Paramedics?
Blessings Always!
Thank you for the link wishingstar. :)
http://www.teamgoonphotos.com/Random-Ha ... F/Original (http://www.teamgoonphotos.com/Random-Happenings/Breakfast-at-Fire-Station-71/12547601_GDjsM/1/900256782_D33FF/Original)
(http://www.teamgoonphotos.com/Random-Happenings/Breakfast-at-Fire-Station-71/23P1040409/900256782_D33FF-O.jpg)
This picture shows 2 men/paramedics from Fire station 71. Do you think maybe the black guy is the same one in the picture below? We only see the back of his head. The white guy posing in the picture (above) doesn't seem like the guy next to Alberto on the right. 3rd guy/paramedic is still suspect to me! lol
(http://www.bittenandbound.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/ambulance-arrives-at-hospital-with-michael-jackson.jpg)
(http://www.buzzchow.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/michael-jackson-hospital-385x386.jpg)
(http://www.cayman27.com.ky/app/webroot/files/t1home_michael_jackson_hospital_x17.jpg)
I think I may have identified the security so far as being Mike La Perruque (the guy with the mustache facing us), Alberto Alvarez (the guy with his back to us next to Murray), and who is the guy holding up his coat? Help please.
Why is that guy (the guy who is holding up the coat next to the ambulance) holding the coat up to the ambulance when the patient was already wheeled out?
-
Just wondering...
Do you think the cabinet from the pictures match the cabinet from the video? Wouldn't that white border show up in the pictures?
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12209)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12208)
Good catch! I'm glad somebody noticed this--it is one of the "secrets" that I have been planning on pointing out, if nobody found it. But I'm always glad when someone else finds it first. There is one more thing about this that I will include later, if nobody else gets it first.
TS, I was wondering what the other one more thing you were going to include. Did you write it to us already or someone else has found it or are you waiting for the ambulance research/discussion to end?
So far, I haven't seen anyone find the other thing on this. I'll give it a few more days for someone else to find it.
Can you at least give us help in the right direction...it's hard to know what were looking for when we have nothing to go on. :)
-
paula-c said: Endocrine System:
1.- The Thymus is not identified. [this report gets bizarre page by page, apparently the coroner was not able to find the thymus, so the dead body is missing his thymus. The thymus is a specialized organ of the immune system. In lupus patients the whole immune system becomes over active attacking the body’s tissues & organs. However in HIV AIDS patients the thymus will be damaged to the point that it cannot be identified in the body. Another cause for missing the thymus is a very rare birth defect called the Digeorge Syndrome, however people suffering from this syndrome have certain facial features that make them stand out, very much similar to Down Syndrome. We know Michael didn’t have Digeorge Syndrome, there’s no mention of the deceased body having HIV, so why is the thymus missing? I can’t find a medical explanation for it!!!!
It is worth mentioning that removal of Thymus is highly unconventional & dangerous, the only time that a surgeon might decide to remove a thymus is in infants with sever heart defects that require heart surgery, the thymus in these cases sometimes have to be removed in order for the surgeon to have an unobstructed access to the heart. however this is not the case in older children or adults. Another very rare case that requires removal of thymus, which again I insist is very rare & it's a tough choice for a surgeon to make, is if a patient is suffering from Myasthenia gravis. Myasthenia gravis is a neuro-muscular disease leading to severe fluctuation of muscles & weakness & fatiguability. Again not all the cases of Myasthenia gravis require removal of thymus. Removal of thymus bears sever neurological side effects & it is a contributing factor in death of HIV patients. So why is the body missing the Thymus?]
Unfortunately, I can tell you from personal experience, the removal of the Thymus is very dangerous....my mother passed from Myasthenia. She was incredibly weak afterwards, people did not recognize her in the end...I'm done....gotta go cry.
Love to all...............Wishingstar
Makes me think about "Bubbles" again, because the Thymus is often removed from monkeys and rats for medical experiments.
-
Just wondering...
Do you think the cabinet from the pictures match the cabinet from the video? Wouldn't that white border show up in the pictures?
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12209)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12208)
Good catch! I'm glad somebody noticed this--it is one of the "secrets" that I have been planning on pointing out, if nobody found it. But I'm always glad when someone else finds it first. There is one more thing about this that I will include later, if nobody else gets it first.
TS, I was wondering what the other one more thing you were going to include. Did you write it to us already or someone else has found it or are you waiting for the ambulance research/discussion to end?
So far, I haven't seen anyone find the other thing on this. I'll give it a few more days for someone else to find it.
Thank you TS. Blessings...
-
deleted
-
Here is an article about a pancake Breakfast Breakfast they hosted :
http://www.bigwheelmagazine.com/around_ ... e-13-2010/ (http://www.bigwheelmagazine.com/around_town/pancake-breakfast-at-fire-station-71-of-the-los-angeles-fire-department-los-angeles-ca-june-13-2010/)
Anyone look familiar? Paramedics?
Blessings Always!
Thank you for the link wishingstar. :)
http://www.teamgoonphotos.com/Random-Ha ... F/Original (http://www.teamgoonphotos.com/Random-Happenings/Breakfast-at-Fire-Station-71/12547601_GDjsM/1/900256782_D33FF/Original)
(http://www.teamgoonphotos.com/Random-Happenings/Breakfast-at-Fire-Station-71/23P1040409/900256782_D33FF-O.jpg)
This picture shows 2 men/paramedics from Fire station 71. Do you think maybe the black guy is the same one in the picture below? We only see the back of his head. The white guy posing in the picture (above) doesn't seem like the guy next to Alberto on the right. 3rd guy/paramedic is still suspect to me! lol
thats what i said on my other replies...this 3rd paramedic looks like mj...
-
I am way stuck on this Pancake breakfast set of photos.....maybe I am just hungry, lol! However, the whole series is very interesting....take a look at this close up pic in daylight of the ambulance. I see white around the cases, I think:
http://www.teamgoonphotos.com/Random-Ha ... f/Original (http://www.teamgoonphotos.com/Random-Happenings/Breakfast-at-Fire-Station-71/12547601_GDjsM/1/900256507_nqExf/Original)
Scroll through the set.....what do you guys think? There is also a photo of a guy in a fireman's jacket....Ben? In one shot, he is with a child, in another shot he is taking the picture with a huge camera (like the one on Ben's desk I posted about).
Blessings!
-
TS_Comments wrote...The next level means that we are now going to shift the focus from the ambulance picture (whether it was real or fake, etc) to whether or not some or all of the paramedics are in on the hoax.
I believe ALL live June 25 paramedics were actors contracted for the hoax.
Did the actual paramedics pose for a staged ambulance shot before 6-25-09? Would the real paramedics publicly deny the ambulance photo, if it was not them in the picture (and they were not in on the hoax)?
No. No actual paramedics working for MJ, prior to June 25. No real paramedics on June 25. I think, now, :o it could have been an actual photo from a trade magazine, OR medical equipment catalog (which is why the EMTs are unidentifiable).
The "EMTs" in that photo probably are unaware to this day that the publication photo was used again and a photo of an "MJ masked model" or old photo of MJ was shopped in.
It would not be required to notify or gain a signed release from these guys, as their faces will still not be shown and they were not being asked to pose again for any hoax. So, no, ;) they would not reveal the secret or the hoax as they were not privy to it.
(That answers your question, too, in color below, Gina :) .)
In fact, if THAT trade mag photo was a staged photo as well, also using body models or actors posing as paramedics for the picture, the models probably haven't ever even looked back, read the magazine or seen the photo EVER, and would not be able to recognize it on CNN on that June 25th.
Was the ambulance photo staged with the actual #71 LAFD ambulance, or another one that looks about the same inside?
If it was a standard ambulance interior in a picture in a medical catalog or trade mag, as I propose, now, it cannot be the ACTUAL #71 LAFD one. Someone previously (a medic or EMT by vocation, I believe, I'm sorry :oops: , I don't remember your name), on the Feb 26 thread stated that they are all pretty much alike.
In the 911 call they never said it was Michael Jackson but a gentleman of 50.
And he was admitted at UCLA under the name Soule Shaun.
The paramedics said they didn't recognize Michael Jackson, because there was an old frail man.
So one scenario would be this: another person died instead of Michael.
In this case nobody from the fire dep. or from the paramedics or from the hospital had to be in the hoax and everything that happened that day was for real, except the fact that the dying person was not Michael.
I would go for this
There is only one problem: Why the paramedics, if they are not in the hoax, didn't reveal that the ambulance pic is fake?
So, to recap:
:arrow: I feel that just to keep everyone honest and loyal, everyone in on this hoax is paid and contracted to silence, even friends. Key players involved in the live event on June 25 were paid actors, sworn to silence under penalty of prosecution.
:arrow: I now feel that NO closeup photos were taken live, NO inside ambulance photos, either----only long shots and shots placing characters in site and on scene. Photographers just went through the motions for drama's sake. ;) And so that the world would "buy" the money shot ("yeah, we SAW the guy snap it, right through the side window, as the ambulance pulled away---wow!").
:arrow: I feel that the three 911 call versions I heard, were staged as well. AND done on "the other day". All faked. MJ is NOT going to jail, EVER, therefore he's NO WAY messing with the real 911 agency/ network at all. Pretty certain it is a felony. He is also NOT going to risk a mis-speak or slip up blowing the entire thing, LIVE, and there really is NO reason to cram yet another live production into June 25's schedule!! :lol:
A couple of thoughts:
Emergency attendants are very take charge confident people. I didn't hear such a personality on those recordings. :? I even heard one guy who was "thrown" by the fact there was an M.D.on scene.
The other thing, I believe someone MUST have mentioned: if the call is disconnected, 911 will re-establish contact and remain on the line until ambulance has arrived. They NEVER hang up on an emergency, and they don't let YOU let go of them either!! 8-)
:arrow: All of this means that, as actors, everything they said that day is scripted, including all the stuff about "MJ's" appearing to not look like his expected self, looking like an 80 yr old man...We can't put stock in anything the MJ Players said. Every word came out of Michael Jackson's Fiendish Adventure kit. 8-) :!: :lol:
When MJ conceptualized this Thriller, he hinted it would be scary. He said he would give them a monster, if that's what everyone wanted to see. He is a Genius with emotional pushbuttons. I don't know about eveyone else, but the incongruous reports gave me heart stopping hope, that it wasn't MJ after all.Then they scared me to death, because I knew, one CAN go from 50 to 80, if one is tormented relentlessly, as MJ was... :cry:
Anyway, these are my latest theories
:)
-
I don't know if I am able to rationalize right now but we have big problemes with this issue of the paramedics.
I'm just stating here my dilema of the moment:
If the paramedics were actors and the ambulance a fake on June 25th, why the real 71 ambulance crue wouldn't say a thing that they weren't there that day?
If the paramedics were real and the ambulance was the real 71 on June 25th, why wouldn't they say the ambulance picture if fake, because we can clearly see MJ's face in it and they said they didn't recognize Michael?
So far none of the theories I can think about doesn't stand.
This thing about the paramedics not being able to recognize MJ always comes in the middle, contradicting the ambulance picture.
Let's say everything was for real and Michael died that day and he was in the ambulance. Still this doesn't solve the contradiction between the ambulance picture and the paramedics not recognizing MJ.
-
the real 71 ambulance had to be there that day, otherwise they would deny the whole thing.
And I don't think the official 71 paramedics weren't aware of what was happening as it was a worldwide breaking news.
They had to be there.
I think one of the four 911 calls has to be real
And I posted this at 6:25 and this is a freaking coincidence because coincidences DO happen
-
@Its her...great post...I never thought about the shots being from a trade mag before. Thankyou for opening me to other possibilities. Standing ovation for you girl. :P
-
[I believe ALL live June 25 paramedics were actors contracted for the hoax.
OK, but why the real ones from LAFD ambulance 71 didn't say nothing about not being there that day?
-
http://www.flickr.com/photos/44687287@N02/5516425389/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/44687287@N02/5516425435/
-
@Its her...great post...I never thought about the shots being from a trade mag before. Thankyou for opening me to other possibilities. Standing ovation for you girl. :P
Why, thank you! :oops:
I would even take a bow, except I'm humbly holding off a bit, in case there is also the pelting with vegetables. :?
:o :lol: :lol:
-
Grace would you please explain those? How you found them if they protected them of the search engines?
Please :(
If they are true means the 71 ambulance was there for real, with real paramedics and all.
And we can step into the next level into finding if there was MJ on the strecher or a double or another person..
-
http://www.flickr.com/photos/44687287@N02/5516425389/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/44687287@N02/5516425435/
It fits perfectly with my theory.
-
http://www.flickr.com/photos/44687287@N02/5516425389/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/44687287@N02/5516425435/
It fits perfectly with my theory.
Would you please detail your theory?
-
[I believe ALL live June 25 paramedics were actors contracted for the hoax.
OK, but why the real ones from LAFD ambulance 71 didn't say nothing about not being there that day?
THAT, my dear, is going to require more brainpower, than I planned to use this late at night. But...for YOU:
Perhaps they couldn't and still cannot speak, as MJ is cleverly :geek: keeping them up to their lips in pancakes (a substitute word for "lettuce", or, "greenbacks", or moolah, money)? :lol:
Seriously, EVERY EMT doesn't work EVERY day, and even though there probably is some kind of a log, most wouldn't THINK to check and see if staff at THEIR lowly #71, on their day off, let the great Michael Jackson DIE in their hands.
Perhaps MJ had made a deal with the main man over there and THAT guy zipped all of staff's lips about who did what, to anyone, especially press. They don't have to ALL be in on it, or to know JACK about it, to follow orders from the boss (AND HIPPA), and "dummy up, dudes".
Either that, or, Michael Godfather Jackson made everyone an offer they couldn't refuse.... 8-)
OR, (and this is so bizarre, I surprised myself! ) :o
What if, true to my "ALL-ACTORS" premise, all are ACTING according to MJ's script that day, but TWO of the act-ors hired are secretly, genuine paramedics in their real life---just btw??????????
They are NOT in any official capacity---unless as closet technical advisors known only to MJ, himself---but only as "extras" in the ambulance scene that day. Since these guys are government employees, I don't think anyone can BUY them for a day in their official capacity...But it would be okay for them to be------------------------------------
AREYOU READY FOR THIS :?:
Moon :roll: lighting,
as actors in a paramedic scene, playing non-speaking (because the audio was already done "the other day" ;) ;) )parts of EMTs.
And, not only that, but, maybe there is a law about who is even authorized/licensed to drive a real ambulance. If two EMTs gotta be on board to make it legal, well, MJ just better pay a couple for their time, except as actors, NOT on the clock as EMTs!
Besides, there is no point in "lyin' "about it (saying they were NOT there)---as everyone will say they ARE---out of shame and guilt----because we all saw #71 on the world news! :P :P :P :roll: EH? :lol:
-
ItsHer I don't even know what to say.
Your theory doesn't sound too crazy ?
You think Michael could have bought their silence on such a big thing like his faked death?
No......all these are toooooooo unrealistic.
But if we go back to the old theories of the CIA involvement, than I think everyhting falls in place.
They have the power to set up such an illusion, given the required involvement of so many public services - LAFD, LAPD, UCLA, the coroner, the court of laws and what did I miss?
-
Two different days...two different ambulances....
-
Would you please detail your theory?
I haven't read all 3 pages yet, so this theory could have been written before. Here is my theory regarding to the ambulance issue. An ambulance that looks like the real ambulance came to a studio or Michael's house before 6-25-09. There were actors to play paramedics. And the pictures were taken on that day. And the ambulance went to the hospital with Michael inside on that day as well where we had these photos of him getting into the hospital sitting on the stretcher.
(http://www.cayman27.com.ky/app/webroot/files/t1home_michael_jackson_hospital_x17.jpg)
And on 6-25-2009 a real ambulance came to MJ's house with real paramedics and they found an old Asian looking man, probably who died hours ago and tried to survive him. And that is the reason why the paramedics said the patient didn't look like Michael. I still believe a dead body was used on 6-25 because of the paramedics' comments about the patient and how MJ's room was kept warm in the middle of summer. And the paramedics who are in court are also the real paramedics who went MJ's house on 6-25. I do not know if they said anything related how the patient looked like on that day in their testimony but probably they thought that MJ was so sick and fragile and that was the reason why he looked like an old guy. Michael can be the most famous person in this world but he wasn't in front of the cameras for some time and not everyone is his fans to follow and catch up what he looks like recently.
Michael had to use a fake ambulance to make fake photos because you could never know if someone (who has an agreement like Ben or some random people who were there) can take a nice shot of inside of the ambulance when the ambulance is moving. The scene needed to look real on 6-25 and there had to be witnesses that an ambulance was there on that day. And the ambulance was slow, without the sirens but still it couldn't stop and wait there for people to get nice shots through tinted windows.
So I believe that is the reason why Michael staged an ambulance scene before the real one on 6-25. And he used photoshop and changed his face, added some extra clues for us to understand the ambo pic is fake. BUT it couldn't be too fake to make everyone understand that it is fake. Until the statement came from Brian Oxman due to fake ambulance picture, people(non-believers) were still considering it as a real picture.
Probably Ben was called on the staged ambo day and on the real ambo day, to take the pictures on the staged ambo day and to be there on 6-25 to talk and make a statement like he was the one who took the ambo pictures. Do we even see this guy around the ambulance or his friend what ever he looks like on 6-25? And why that guy who took the picture doesn't talk but Ben does? To make a "goof" like "... on that day and the other d... umm"?
-
ItsHer I don't even know what to say.
Your theory doesn't sound too crazy ?
You think Michael could have bought their silence on such a big thing like his faked death?
No......all these are toooooooo unrealistic.
But if we go back to the old theories of the CIA involvement, than I think everyhting falls in place.
They have the power to set up such an illusion, given the required involvement of so many public services - LAFD, LAPD, UCLA, the coroner, the court of laws and what did I miss?
I think every single person MJ asked to keep quiet, WOULD, just to be part of history and have a supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
story to tell their grandkids :!: :!: But I think he would pay them (AFTERwards ;) ) and bind them to an oath, to keep them honest and true to their promise, because he knows people are weak :oops: blabbermouths!!!!!!!!!!!! :roll:
Don't worry, MJ is very much alive and well. :) Who do you think that Madman is, behind the wheel, steering this HoaxShip?
It can be none other.
:idea: Everyone blow kisses to the PuppetMaster. 8-)
Over and out. Bed time for Bonzo.....
-
If they are true means the 71 ambulance was there for real, with real paramedics and all.
And we can step into the next level into finding if there was MJ on the strecher or a double or another person..
"Real paramedics" does not exclude acting as the intensive participation of LAFD in movies has shown.
-
If they are true means the 71 ambulance was there for real, with real paramedics and all.
And we can step into the next level into finding if there was MJ on the strecher or a double or another person..
"Real paramedics" does not exclude acting as the intensive participation of LAFD in movies has shown.
So you say that the real paramedics acted that day.
But how Michael convinced them to do it?
-
ItsHer you are one of a kind :lol: !!
Hope the Puppet Master receives the kisses from his main deck or from behind the grave
-
PureLove I need some time to read your theory.
-
If they are true means the 71 ambulance was there for real, with real paramedics and all.
And we can step into the next level into finding if there was MJ on the strecher or a double or another person..
"Real paramedics" does not exclude acting as the intensive participation of LAFD in movies has shown.
So you say that the real paramedics acted that day.
That's not what I said.
You are a fast one. ;)
-
OK, you're just saying real paramedics does not exclude acting.
So you're saying nothing with this.
Ahhhhh.....I just wanna scream, too bad I don't know how to scream. Only on inside.
-
TS_comments » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:12 pm
PureLove wrote:
TS_comments wrote:
mdc wrote:
Just wondering...
Do you think the cabinet from the pictures match the cabinet from the video? Wouldn't that white border show up in the pictures?
Good catch! I'm glad somebody noticed this--it is one of the "secrets" that I have been planning on pointing out, if nobody found it. But I'm always glad when someone else finds it first. There is one more thing about this that I will include later, if nobody else gets it first.
TS, I was wondering what the other one more thing you were going to include. Did you write it to us already or someone else has found it or are you waiting for the ambulance research/discussion to end?
So far, I haven't seen anyone find the other thing on this. I'll give it a few more days for someone else to find it.
This thread is to keep talking of the ambulance or the action of the paramedicos :?
-
http://www.flickr.com/photos/44687287@N02/5516425389/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/44687287@N02/5516425435/
:shock: :shock: holly cow! is that yours?
-
OK - I'm going to try again. The evidence that there were two different ambulances can be found by comparing the photo of the 'ambulance leaving the house' with the 'proof of ambulance arriving at UCLA' pictures.
[attachment=0:16vrahiv]4_proof_pic[1].jpg[/attachment:16vrahiv]
1 There is no reflector near the bottom rear corner of the ambulance.
2 The word 'Fire' is partly on the door of the top rear compartment of the ambulance.
You can compare this ambulance with the ambulance at UCLA pictures (all over this thread) and see the differences. There is a good comparison of these ambulances at this site - just scroll down until you see the picture of the ambulance leaving the house. http://arvenru.wordpress.com/2010/09/01/551/ (http://arvenru.wordpress.com/2010/09/01/551/)
-
OK - I'm going to try again. The evidence that there were two different ambulances can be found by comparing the photo of the 'ambulance leaving the house' with the 'proof of ambulance arriving at UCLA' pictures.
[attachment=0:hji82uez]4_proof_pic[1].jpg[/attachment:hji82uez]
1 There is no reflector near the bottom rear corner of the ambulance.
2 The word 'Fire' is partly on the door of the top rear compartment of the ambulance.
You can compare this ambulance with the ambulance at UCLA pictures (all over this thread) and see the differences. There is a good comparison of these ambulances at this site - just scroll down until you see the picture of the ambulance leaving the house. http://arvenru.wordpress.com/2010/09/01/551/ (http://arvenru.wordpress.com/2010/09/01/551/)
What if its the same ambo but altered/ shopped?
-
I'm sorry but the reflector is there both on the ambulance at Michael's residence and on the ambulance that arrived at UCLA. Or I'm not seeing it ....where you guys see there is no reflector?
I don't think there were 2 ambulances - one that left the house and another one arrived at UCLA.
There was one and there was the real one, otherwise LAFD would say something about it, don't you think so?
-
OK - I'm going to try again. The evidence that there were two different ambulances can be found by comparing the photo of the 'ambulance leaving the house' with the 'proof of ambulance arriving at UCLA' pictures.
[attachment=0:1qees29m]4_proof_pic[1].jpg[/attachment:1qees29m]
1 There is no reflector near the bottom rear corner of the ambulance.
2 The word 'Fire' is partly on the door of the top rear compartment of the ambulance.
You can compare this ambulance with the ambulance at UCLA pictures (all over this thread) and see the differences. There is a good comparison of these ambulances at this site - just scroll down until you see the picture of the ambulance leaving the house. http://arvenru.wordpress.com/2010/09/01/551/ (http://arvenru.wordpress.com/2010/09/01/551/)
I see what u are talking about and it makes me think that maybe this picture was photoshopped because it does look like the word "fire" is partly on the back door, but I looked on the video just to make sure. On the video, the word "fire" is NOT on the back door. OR the picture of them taking the picture could've been shot using a different ambulance....i dont know...I'm a little confused with this and need some time to think it through lol.
Peace and LOVE
-
ItsHer I don't even know what to say.
Your theory doesn't sound too crazy ?
You think Michael could have bought their silence on such a big thing like his faked death?
No......all these are toooooooo unrealistic.
But if we go back to the old theories of the CIA involvement, than I think everyhting falls in place.
They have the power to set up such an illusion, given the required involvement of so many public services - LAFD, LAPD, UCLA, the coroner, the court of laws and what did I miss?
Exactly my thoughts Gina. I come back to this also. Witness Protection. Nothing else reconciles the conflicting reports with the picture. If you want a real-life cover story get the Govt. involved and bypass all the red tape. This would be another Elvis parallel; working under cover. One of many layers in this whole thing, and a serious one at that. I have a friend on YouTube who was investigating the money trail while a comrade of her's was doing the medical & autopsy. She stopped her investigation last year because she found enough to KNOW MJ was alive and didn't want to put his safety in danger.
Here's my post from the other day:
"that day and the other d---- and uhhh, and uhhh ----” :roll: Pretty much says it all.
:lol: ET shot = Staged picture. Never liked it. Yes it's possible to get a shot like that with a flash through tinted windows; difficult, but possible with correct angle. As for the leaves & all the photo-shop & layering...over my head, I'm old school. Digital's not my thing; Give me a Cannon AE-1 or 2 1/4 any day. (sorry Nikon fans) Gone are the days of Zone System, raw talent & creativity. Now anyone can be a photographer & "make" a shot look good...it's a whole other world out there.
Video = Live action day. :lol: Let the games/Illusion begin! It's a Circus out there. :lol:
So the paramedics in the shot are actors for the set up...but the ones that answered the 911 call?
I don't think so, but there are four versions of the 911 call out there so I'm undecided on the live action day. I'm still thinking there really was a body/hospice patient involved because of all the other conflicts...hot room, didn't recognize him?, R I G H T, autopsy...
So are we even close to anything here TS? :?
-
I agree with most of It'sHer's theorie, re actor paramedics, staged 911 calls etc. With the addition of low enforcement involvement on some level. It is really the only thing explaining why the real ambulance 71 crew has not spoken up. Also, it ties in to the previously addressed code 71- meaning approved absence. If nothing was random, than the choice of # of ambulance was not, either.
Also, if there was no real 911 call, and there is no law enforcement involvement, I think actual authorites would have come forward. You can't pay off everyone. And- there are bigger lures than short-term gain. Meaning, notoriety for exposing the hoax.
To me, some degree of witness protection, similar program, or law enforcement involvement (remember, the chief of la police resigned shortly after June 09- at least I think that's who it was, or other high up police official) is the ONE thing that ties together the non-matching photos, the different version 911 calls, the real paramedics vs actors issue, and impunity. I always believed there was a threat to Michael's life- as did he according to several people. Maybe, he finally got the attention he deserved and things tied into his long-term plans.
It also helps explain changes in BAM timeline as well as trail date changes- if things are not purely up to Michael.
-
The only issue I have ever questioned about the hoax is not videos, pics, staging or buyouts but the ACTUAL Trial. Most of the "staging" could have been "bought" but the trial of Murray I have always felt to be out of MJ's control. The trial is the ONLY thing that has ever made think MJ may actually be dead. I do not feel he could "buy" the judicial system. So "if" MJ is not alive the trial goes. And because he IS alive, in my opinion he would have to BAM before it actually starts? I am only a nurse and not a lawyer but I would think there is some kind of "criminal" issue will a false trial? Just a thought. :?
-
The trial can be real or can be a movie-documentary.
TMZ is not having much news lately so I feel a bit clueless about the upcoming trial.
-
The only issue I have ever questioned about the hoax is not videos, pics, staging or buyouts but the ACTUAL Trial. Most of the "staging" could have been "bought" but the trial of Murray I have always felt to be out of MJ's control. The trial is the ONLY thing that has ever made think MJ may actually be dead. I do not feel he could "buy" the judicial system. So "if" MJ is not alive the trial goes. And because he IS alive, in my opinion he would have to BAM before it actually starts? I am only a nurse and not a lawyer but I would think there is some kind of "criminal" issue will a false trial? Just a thought. :?
Correct: he could NOT buy the justice system. But, if it's a sting operation as some of us discussed above, it again makes sense.
-
Also maybe witness protection , etc, etc are only other reasons/way I see a "real" trial happening. MJ could have paid Murray to take the "fall". Thus, extending the "time" til BAM. I take a few million to sit in jail! LOL Also, Murray could use "plausible deniablity" as his excuse to clear himself. A "movie" trial seems like a stretch to me. dunno?
-
Thought-(again)lol
MJ comes back
Murray says " I didnt know about hoax"
MJ states "life was in danger, had to do hoax"
Law enforcement confirms it participated
All "charges" dropped
We try to "save the planet"
Ain't detective work fun? lol
-
Thought-(again)lol
MJ comes back
Murray says " I didnt know about hoax"
MJ states "life was in danger, had to do hoax"
Law enforcement confirms it participated
All "charges" dropped
We try to "save the planet"
Ain't detective work fun? lol
My view on this:
MJ comes back
Murray says -" I knew who wanted to harm Michael and adviced him and help him to "die""
MJ states "life was in danger, had to do hoax helped by Murray and other professionals"
Law enforcement confirms it participated
All "charges" dropped and all the bad guys and conspirators end up behind bars
-
haha sorry for spamming but something else sticks out in my mind.
TS started this little investigationg with "As we near the end: let’s go back to the beginning"
Makes me think that trial/conviction of Murray doesn't happen because if Murray does do jail time(paid or not) the "end" really isn't near.
and I'm done now, sorry again.
-
I like that to Gema!
-
To me, Murray going to jail would mean no MJ come back.
-
If they are true means the 71 ambulance was there for real, with real paramedics and all.
And we can step into the next level into finding if there was MJ on the strecher or a double or another person..
"Real paramedics" does not exclude acting as the intensive participation of LAFD in movies has shown.
So you say that the real paramedics acted that day.
But how Michael convinced them to do it?
Oh, Gina, MAGIC dust, of course. <!-- s;) --> ;) <!-- s;) -->
MJ stopped the world June 25 2009. Certainly, playing Pied Piper, gathering players for his Hoax would be a piece of cake. He got the bait. <!-- s:P --> :P <!-- s:P --> <!-- s:lol: --> :lol: <!-- s:lol: -->
-
To me, Murray going to jail would mean no MJ come back.
BUT>>>it does tie into him"helping" if more "time" is needed. Not like he would go to a max facility. But "if" we "only have 4 more years", the clock is running out. So no jail time/trial is our best hope of a BAM. I would lose hope if he does do time. To me it makes no sense. I do see trial "starting" to bring MJ back into the public eye, thus attention to him becomes a "topic" and more interest in all the "happenings" of that day are revisted. MJ becomes more of a "news worthy" issue and pulic interest is sparked. And BAM! haha I have also always thought that he would BAM on a big scale. Believing it would/will be in the summertime, there were only a few venues I could see him doing it with a large "TV" audience. Previously I thought of the summer music awards show, being those are the only "live" venues. But his "trial" is about the biggest "live" audience he could get/want. And the world will be watching.
I feel like an Almond JoyMounds candy bar---"sometimes you feel like nut, sometimes you don't"!!!
-
The only issue I have ever questioned about the hoax is not videos, pics, staging or buyouts but the ACTUAL Trial. Most of the "staging" could have been "bought" but the trial of Murray I have always felt to be out of MJ's control. The trial is the ONLY thing that has ever made think MJ may actually be dead. I do not feel he could "buy" the judicial system. So "if" MJ is not alive the trial goes. And because he IS alive, in my opinion he would have to BAM before it actually starts? I am only a nurse and not a lawyer but I would think there is some kind of "criminal" issue will a false trial? Just a thought. :?
Correct: he could NOT buy the justice system. But, if it's a sting operation as some of us discussed above, it again makes sense.
I wonder what makes you think one could not buy the judicial system.
Whenever I follow a trial in the U.S., I am astounded how much bazaar one can witness.
And this is certainly not limited to the U.S.
The saying "in court and on the high seas one's life is in God's hand" has some meaning.
And some are getting their heads out of water.
-
The only issue I have ever questioned about the hoax is not videos, pics, staging or buyouts but the ACTUAL Trial. Most of the "staging" could have been "bought" but the trial of Murray I have always felt to be out of MJ's control. The trial is the ONLY thing that has ever made think MJ may actually be dead. I do not feel he could "buy" the judicial system. So "if" MJ is not alive the trial goes. And because he IS alive, in my opinion he would have to BAM before it actually starts? I am only a nurse and not a lawyer but I would think there is some kind of "criminal" issue will a false trial? Just a thought. :?
Correct: he could NOT buy the justice system. But, if it's a sting operation as some of us discussed above, it again makes sense.
I wonder what makes you think one could not buy the judicial system.
Whenever I follow a trial in the U.S., I am astounded how much bazaar one can witness.
And this is certainly not limited to the U.S.
The saying "in court and on the high seas one's life is in God's hand" has some meaning.
And some are getting their heads out of water.
Please take no offense, in the spirt of a fun debate- Besides the OJ Simpson trial, what trials have you seen be bought? And OJ only bought the best lawyers. So in theory one must "buy" a judge, jury, defense, prosecution, all of the D and P staff, Police, fire, medical, witnesses, coroner and their office, ucla staff, helicopter pilot and crew and a german news crew. I'm missing a few for sure. Point being no matter how much money you got you couldnt pay them all and in no way keep them all quiet. And that would rule out witness protection theory because this most likely would never go to trial. A technicality would of been found and case thrown out. imo
-
and as TS said, I am only in a way point and counter pointing a Non-believers main argument. The trial. To them Trial=Dead. I hear it everyday. Trust me, I have shown pics, vids, slips to many a person...but I remain the "crazy" one.
-
I honestly think MJ has some trick up his sleeve, a trump card, a wild card giving him sweeping rights/abilities/immunity, that no one has knowledge of. You know how a good movie you think the main star is sure to meet their doom and out of nowhere comes this solution/savior/twist that changes everything.
Its Her
Oh, Gina, MAGIC dust, of course.
MJ stopped the world June 25 2009. Certainly, playing Pied Piper, gathering players for his Hoax would be a piece of cake. He got the bait.
I don't think he can be in the witness protection because whoever wants to get at him, would go after his most precious thing--his children, but they have been open to the public and visible, not seeming to be afraid at all.
I think we should not even be wondering about when BAM will take place, and I think we should focus on what MJ puts out for us, and leave BAM for a whenever surprise. Not try to figure it out period.JMO
-
Ok, I apologize for getting away from the main purpose of this thread. It is interesting to see and find the things we missed as to either strengthen or weaken our beliefs. So I have started a thread pertaining to theroies and thoughts about the trial and what it means. For me it is the key. The new things we find are fun and make you consider the complexity of the hoax. But, it is also "old news" to me. I am not trying to perdict BAMsday, only implying how the trial may actually influence when or if it ever happens. This is the link viewtopic.php?f=73&t=18211 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=18211) . Again, I apologize for veering off-topic.
-
Exactly my thoughts Gina. I come back to this also. Witness Protection. Nothing else reconciles the conflicting reports with the picture.
I am glad you agree.
I was thinking if the real death of Michael would reconcile the picture with paramedics statements that they didn't recognize Michael and the answer is no. They would still have a reason to say the photo was fake, except the case they didn't pay attention to that pic.
Anyway, the paramedics have to be in, otherwise they would speak about the pic being fake.
The real 71 ambulance had to be there, otherwise officials from LAFD would publicly deny their presence there.
If we have a hoax LAFD has to be in. But then there is UCLA, they also have to be in, and the more I think about it I come to the same conclusion that all the public services have to be in.
Or LAPD was acting the investigation?The coroner acted like he performed an autopsy?
Or maybe the level of involvement stopped at UCLA ? Maybe only LAFD and UCLA were needed in, to provide the dead body of another person, and then LAPD and the coroner just did their jobs, investigating and performing the autopsy, without being aware of a hoax.
IDK, but I don't think we can give an answer about the paramedics being in the hoax or not without thinking about what happened to UCLA that day.
-
Two different days...two different ambulances....
To me it's the same but the photo was done with and without flash. They have this reflective feature that MAKES THEM GLOW in the flash, thus appear bigger, wider whatever!
Please, do not jump on the bandwagon of two ambulances because these photos were done in a sequence - picture by picture. With and without flash.
Seee? They're glowing!
(http://www.instructables.com/image/FTH7RITG23UU0VV/Safe-SneaksGlowReflective-shoes.jpg)
-
(http://emtbravowest.com/uploads/monthly_11_2009/post-4784-125882324738.jpg)
and accidentally to these actors.... I'm sorry it paramedical does not see the face them, I believe that there are paramedical that is real, not those that to be in the photo
-
Exactly my thoughts Gina. I come back to this also. Witness Protection. Nothing else reconciles the conflicting reports with the picture.
I am glad you agree.
I was thinking if the real death of Michael would reconcile the picture with paramedics statements that they didn't recognize Michael and the answer is no. They would still have a reason to say the photo was fake, except the case they didn't pay attention to that pic.
...Not if it was all done under Witness protection. :?:
The real Paramedics belonging to 71 (whether "in" on live action day or not) wouldn't be allowed to speak about the events of that day. And if the live action Paramedics there that day were actually Govt agents they certainly wouldn't speak of it, nor would they say all those weird comments about not recognizing him either. ...So that means real Paramedics sworn to silence of the events that day -or- actors playing the part making a bunch of weird statements...?
I'm back to the possibility of Witness Protection... :|
-
Two different days...two different ambulances....
To me it's the same but the photo was done with and without flash. They have this reflective feature that MAKES THEM GLOW in the flash, thus appear bigger, wider whatever!
Please, do not jump on the bandwagon of two ambulances because these photos were done in a sequence - picture by picture. With and without flash.
Seee? They're glowing!
(http://www.instructables.com/image/FTH7RITG23UU0VV/Safe-SneaksGlowReflective-shoes.jpg)
Yep. I agree.
-
I wonder if TS is going to make any comments about the posts we have made. I hope he does.
-
Do you remember the link that Im_convincedmjalive gave about Steven M. Hoefflin making a public statement against what he called corrupt LAPD and he has incriminating evidence against Dr. Arnie Klein in connection to Michael Jackson. He said he contacted Colin Powel about this. He said it would put a lot of people in prison. He would expose people that colluded with them such as Diane Dimond. Not sure what to make of this, but it could be connected, but whether it is really what is happening in the hoax, IDK.
http://site2.mjeol.com/attachments/2814 ... tter12.pdf (http://site2.mjeol.com/attachments/2814_HoefflingLetter12.pdf)
-
Someone already beat me to it, but I also had been working on the ambulance pictures and did some comparisons myself...
Maybe the coroner van video, and the making of it, was released for a reason. To prove that a fake ambulance could have been made for that day...
I believe there were two ambulances, one real and one made up with stickers, etc...
A real ambulance arrived at UCLA, but not necessarily with MJ. Because we have only one version on the entrance into Emergency entrance, and no footage of the ambulance actually driving there, I was thinking that maybe the arrival picture could have been taken anytime, not on 25th June. There is an inconsistency with the ambulance that arrived at UCLA....
There was not enough room for any more people in the back of the ambulance, and I believe Murray was in the back, so who else was getting out of the ambulance??? One security guard was preparing to hide him with his jacket.????
-
I think the difference of the stripes, the letters and the door is that one of the photos is taken with a flash, hence the 'shine' off the reflective lettering etc.
-
Someone already beat me to it, but I also had been working on the ambulance pictures and did some comparisons myself...
Maybe the coroner van video, and the making of it, was released for a reason. To prove that a fake ambulance could have been made for that day...
I believe there were two ambulances, one real and one made up with stickers, etc...
A real ambulance arrived at UCLA, but not necessarily with MJ. Because we have only one version on the entrance into Emergency entrance, and no footage of the ambulance actually driving there, I was thinking that maybe the arrival picture could have been taken anytime, not on 25th June. There is an inconsistency with the ambulance that arrived at UCLA....
There was not enough room for any more people in the back of the ambulance, and I believe Murray was in the back, so who else was getting out of the ambulance??? One security guard was preparing to hide him with his jacket.????
bodyguard was putting his jacket on, shaking it out, imo not hiding anyone. This becomes clear when you look at the two pics taken quickly one after the other . I don't have them here but google image mj ambulance ucla or something like that and you'll find the two different oics there.
-
The only issue I have ever questioned about the hoax is not videos, pics, staging or buyouts but the ACTUAL Trial. Most of the "staging" could have been "bought" but the trial of Murray I have always felt to be out of MJ's control. The trial is the ONLY thing that has ever made think MJ may actually be dead. I do not feel he could "buy" the judicial system. So "if" MJ is not alive the trial goes. And because he IS alive, in my opinion he would have to BAM before it actually starts? I am only a nurse and not a lawyer but I would think there is some kind of "criminal" issue will a false trial? Just a thought. <!-- s:? --> :? <!-- s:? -->
Correct: he could NOT buy the justice system. But, if it's a sting operation as some of us discussed above, it again makes sense.
I wonder what makes you think one could not buy the judicial system.
Whenever I follow a trial in the U.S., I am astounded how much bazaar one can witness.
And this is certainly not limited to the U.S.The saying "in court and on the high seas one's life is in God's hand" has some meaning.
And some are getting their heads out of water.
Grace, me, TOO. Astounded <!-- s:!: --> :!: <!-- s:!: --> Somewhat true that the entire system could not be bought at once, by even a gang of bazillionaires, but there is SOOOO much corruption and deals made behind the scenes and even in manipulating of the law, and arrogantly, publicly, daring to give themselves the authority to EDIT and erroneously restate Statute from the bench, on case by case situation, that, going to court is LITERALLY a crap shoot.
Many people who think they are getting a good thing with their "day in court" are revealing their youth or naivete. People who know, avoid court at ALL cost, unless of course they get a buzz from the uncertainty of the gamble... The Rules of Evidence are bent and broken every day. Evidence is suppressed or "lost" or thrown out, every day. <!-- s:evil: --> :evil: <!-- s:evil: --> And EVERY one lies.
People who go to court without an attorney ("for just a simple <!-- s:) --> :) <!-- s:) --> matter of common sense"), are given a "treatment" in the difference between real common sense and the kind that the Court produces from their Kangaroo <!-- s:twisted: --> :twisted: <!-- s:twisted: --> pouches.
People who do hire an attorney, NEVER even check to see if the one they want to hire is intimidated by the court. <!-- s:o --> :o <!-- s:o --> Their fate is set by the power dynamic in the court ROOM----not by what is right or wrong. <!-- s:x --> :x <!-- s:x -->
Your attorney may have a career-making case on the table with that judge. If he asserts himself on YOUR measley behalf, or corrects that judge, by simply reading the law, he knows there will be backdraft in the other proceeding.
It is a dirty shame but it is the truth. All attorneys who want to work and win cases, KNOW "...the play's the thing..." how to put on a better show than their opponent, and...which side their bread is buttered on.... <!-- s:? --> :? <!-- s:? --> Many hate their jobs and try a stint as a prosecutor, before their self-respect makes them quit entirely, or just do divorces and dog bites...
Kangaroo Court feels the same as back to back episodes of the Twilight Zone, playing only inside your head, as everyone else in court is asleep <!-- s:roll: --> :roll: <!-- s:roll: --> , except the adversarial actors sporting at your expense.
Oh, and the jury, if god forbid, one is inexperienced enough to insist upon such, is hypnotized early on. It all boils down to NOTHING more than a personality contest---which of the sides has the most charismatic lawyer. Once the jurors decide they like one better, all the evidence is filtered through those rosey glasses that he would not lie to them.
Many, MANY people pride themselves <!-- s:? --> :? <!-- s:? --> on the pinhead belief that they are an expert at knowing the inner core and character of people they have never seen or spoken with, by rolling their eyeballs over them during court procedings. They even feel they can "perceive" if the person is lying or not, despite evidence.
Please pause and think about this for a second. It is SO common. PREJUDICE. In gear, on wheels.
To be sure, some people excel in reading body language. Most are not skilled at all in this. This is why lovers and family members, and people at school and in clubs keep killing each other, over "misunderstandings"...!
The average jury pick is not expert in body language. They are stroked into believing they have special powers because the court chose them for this important job.
True! And also true, some savvy people know it's all a racket and that they are just being cost a days pay.
I am not down on the original concept of a jury of your peers; only what has become of it---how it has been corrupted by psychological manipulation. Every one wants to help. Feel important. Be recognized that they are sharper than most others in the drawer...and they will 9 times out of ten, take the side of the "genius" who recognized those characteristics in themselves... <!-- s:? --> :? <!-- s:? --> <!-- s:roll: --> :roll: <!-- s:roll: --> God help us.
Even some very conscientious and intelligent individuals <!-- s8-) --> 8-) <!-- s8-) --> , may not have the boldness to argue their point, for one reason or another, or may be pressured into compliance with the group for times sake. Not always. But it does happen. And I have heard this statement TOO <!-- s:x --> :x <!-- s:x --> much: "well, maybe he didn't do it this time, but he must've done something in his past that he's gotten away with...it just caught up with him and he's in the system, now." This is NOTHING but PREJUDICE mixed with some loose resignation <!-- s:shock: --> :shock: <!-- s:shock: --> to "Karma".
The gamble is that you never know which kind of persons will be chosen FOR you, as "your peers"...
Prejudice. In the court/jury scenario, this "attribute/skill" is played to the hilt as the jury is charmed by Punch and Judy, and stroked in their powers or observation and pop-judging the facts presented to them...
All I am saying, is that it's common knowledge that courts are above reproach, that court can't be manipulated some or even totally staged, or that a real one's verdict can't be planned just as surely as Bigtime Wrestling is-------it ain't necessarily so. The movie Chicago nailed the facts about courts, and shennanigans therein.
One of the first things they tell students in law school is that the WHOLE thing is a puppet show. There is a good guy and a bad guy and a peanut gallery of puppets to charm over to one side or other, depending on the theatrics of the two sides. Remember, remember, the O.J. Simpson Show?
We don't really know, at ALL, do we, that MJ's drama in 2005 in front of everyone's eyes on CNN was real or an authentic-appearing scene the likes of Perry Mason.... <!-- s:o --> :o <!-- s:o -->
I may be somewhat of a cynic, but, the entire episode created SUCH a cloud of hatred around MJ, I'm feeling, there's no <!-- s:cry: --> :cry: <!-- s:cry: --> way he would have walked away un-convicted.
He, a confident (take down challenge) Black man (race hate), with money(jealousy), using his money to build a sick (pride on their ethical high horse) lair for the unsuspecting, had NO chance of having a fair trial, no matter WHAT evidence they had.
The first thing a jury would look for, prior to the adversarial brainwash competition, would be, WHO is supporting MJ? Where are his 100s of show biz friends and collaborators? What, the courtroom was Sooooo small that the <!-- s:shock: --> :shock: <!-- s:shock: --> PRESS <!-- s:shock: --> :shock: <!-- s:shock: --> was given priority seating over family and friends????
What is up with THAT crap?
WHAT? Either that proves my point of court being, many times, a railroad job, or there is an untruth here. Where were heavyweights, respectible adult friends, such as Ross, Taylor, Wonder, Fonda, Minelli, Jones, etc??? Couldn't someone fix it so they could exchange seats with a sibling for a day?
Many times people are even subpoenaed simply for show. They may never be called to testify, cannot be called to the stand by the prosecution, and no one ever has to know WHAT they were in court for, OR that they were summoned and didn't come simply for support of their friend... I don't know a lot of things, but I know what lawyers can do to win their case. Something is amiss, <!-- s:| --> :| <!-- s:| --> here.
Court is a popularity contest. Common sense and justice are consistently over ridden by the prevailing EMOTION, which in his case was revulsion and deep, rabid, hatred for sweet, minding his own business, hardworking genius, Michael Jackson. If that court trial was a real criminal trial, it is even moreof a miracle than people think, that MJ was aquitted <!-- s:!: --> :!: <!-- s:!: --> I am amazed every time I think about this.
I am SO happy that MJ was exonerated, especially, because prison is more tragic, disgusting, demeaning and horrifying than most people can even imagine. Forget the worst you've seen on TV. It is far worse than that. Not to mention all of the people inside who never belonged there.
I am hoping MJ is going to
blast the doors off this corruption <!-- s:!: --> :!: <!-- s:!: -->
Somehow, some way...
(But, no pressure, eh? if you're reading here, and that's not EVEN what it is <!-- s:oops: --> :oops: <!-- s:oops: --> .
Just dreaming <!-- s:? --> :? <!-- s:? --> .)
Remember the movie, Batman Begins ? There is so much in that story that reminds me of MJ and this whole thing. The whole Hero vibe, behind the mask, and not the Batman mask, either; the one we have looked right at, unseeing for 25 years.
Sorry <!-- s:oops: --> :oops: <!-- s:oops: --> for drifting off topic.
I do have a REAL EMTs, REAL ambulance theory, for those who think THEY see it that way. In a separate post, tho...
-
Its her wrote:
Many people who think they are getting a good thing with their "day in court" are revealing their youth or naivete. People who know, avoid court at ALL cost, unless of course they get a buzz from the uncertainty of the gamble... The Rules of Evidence are bent and broken every day. Evidence is suppressed or "lost" or thrown out, every day. And EVERY one lies.
Its her wrote:
Oh, and the jury, if god forbid, one is inexperienced enough to insist upon such, is hypnotized early on. It all boils down to NOTHING more than a personality contest---which of the sides has the most charismatic lawyer. Once the jurors decide they like one better, all the evidence is filtered through those rosey glasses that he would not lie to them.
Many, MANY people pride themselves on the pinhead belief that they are an expert at knowing the inner core and character of people they have never seen or spoken with, by rolling their eyeballs over them during court procedings. They even feel they can "perceive" if the person is lying or not, despite evidence.
Please pause and think about this for a second. It is SO common. PREJUDICE. In gear, on wheels.
To be sure, some people excel in reading body language. Most are not skilled at all in this. This is why lovers and family members, and people at school and in clubs keep killing each other, over "misunderstandings"...!
The average jury pick is not expert in body language. They are stroked into believing they have special powers because the court chose them for this important job.
Its Her wrote:
We don't really know, at ALL, do we, that MJ's drama in 2005 in front of everyone's eyes on CNN was real or an authentic-appearing scene the likes of Perry Mason....
Really? Don't lump me in the We don't know crowd. I know very well that the torment Michael felt every day was real. It is written all over his face. You are seriously suggesting that he would go through a painful trial for a side show?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLpABElGXb8[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldVpYzKZQWw&feature=related[/youtube]
So the Man himself believes in the Justice system even though half of it may be broke it doesn't mean all of it is broken. The Justice system did work and he was found Not Guilty. Innocent people do not avoid their day in court.
So what does that say Its her? Michael is revealing his youth or naivete? I find your whole post insulting. You continue to bash in your post that really has nothing to do with the topic of this thread and you are a hypocrite saying the jury is prejudice yet you yourself are doing the exact same thing right now!
Its Her wrote:
WHO is supporting MJ?
Your statement was in regards to the trial but in this instance and hoax I am supporting him.
-
Guys you all amaze me. Everyone has posted well thought out and valid arguments worthy of consideration. TS said in the intro to this thread to keep in mind the goals of the hoax and that two or more strong evidences pointing to the same conclusion are deemed credibile. This is why I am of the persuasion that the 911 call
were fake and fabricated as they deviate from standard practise in that contact was cut during a medical emergency. Coupled with the inability to identify the paramedics in the ambo money shot suggests, to me anyway, they were actors and not paramedics. If perchance they were trained paramedics, they were moonlighting as actors on that said day. Convenient and practicle eh MJ? So the staged photos are all ready to go, now it was time to go live. Which brings us to the 25th June at Carolwood. The ambulance was needed there that day for proof of validation by the witnesses such as the tour bus= people with cameras. People like the macabre, and this opener was the starting point to a world wide attention grabber [I still can't avert my eyes].
If the ambulance at UCLA was not the real abulance 71, but the illusion going live that day, [I can't stop thinking about that german RTL clip] it would be a great platform of exposing the manipulation of truth as it is relayed to we the people. Who would need to be involved? Family and key hoax players [more like employees for this production] + a few personal friends in high or powerful places. If I continue with this train of thought, the trial of our Doc Murrey would be another scene in this fully interactive complex production.
-
What if the ambulance on the 25th was real, and the EMTs were real, too? This means there would necessarily have to be a REAL patient pick up, or someone who called for the staffed vehicle goes to JAIL.
Ok, never mind the photo of MJ wired and intubated in AN ambulance. That shot could NOT have come from someone running alongside a moving vehicle. BUT, that is a separate situation, like BlackJack once, said aptly, "a hoax within a hoax"...
Just looking at the situation in front of our eyes---no other info from other theories, ok?
Just looking at:
<!-- s:arrow: --> :arrow: <!-- s:arrow: --> 2 real EMTs and
<!-- s:arrow: --> :arrow: <!-- s:arrow: --> a real patient,
<!-- s:arrow: --> :arrow: <!-- s:arrow: --> in a real ambulance run for life.
In order for this to work, it STILL doesn't have to be MJ. But it could be.
Whether it IS or not, is another "hoax within a hoax", too, which I need to go into, briefly.
Right now, I will say it is NOT MJ---too confined of a space to be safe, and MJ is so healthy, he would not fool the medical instruments, that he was in physical duress. But,
Does he NEED to?
All this patient NEEDs to do is have the appearance of an 80 year old man...
which we all know he can do professionally enough to pull it off-----usually.
But, the EMTs would KNOW it was a costume/old man body suit, when they bared his chest and hooked him up to a heart monitor. I'm thinking he would show a flatline through the insulation of rubber---are there any Med Techs reading here now? Perhaps the reason for the premature announcement of death, & orders to keep up rescue efforts.
They planned for this. He can't die inside the ambulance; in my town, the vehicle would go straight to the morgue, not the ER. A change in logistics, last minute, would be a serious problem!
So, the patient was not in costume. Hmmm... <!-- s:| --> :| <!-- s:| -->
He could have been ANYBODY, except MJ or any young person.
He could have been a hard-living, reasonably healthy 65 year old guy. Just looked eighty.
He could have been an older stuntman...Many people look their age in the face, but under their clothes can pass for MUCH younger. Maybe they only exposed part of his chest. Two electrodes.
Many times an ambulance is sent for alarming symptoms which cannot be found by instruments in the ambulance. Panic attacks, indigestion can cause scarey heart pains.
MJ DID say, "pains", did he not?
Well, anyway, the EMTs would have spent more time on him, giving way for the symptoms to reappear...then they would simply fill out the papers and head for the hospital, anyway.
What I don't know, is HOW he can get out of being admitted if those are real EMTs doing their REAL job. I think this is a critical question.
If the players are genuine, when are they told it is a gag?? Unless... <!-- s:o --> :o <!-- s:o -->
What if Station #71 rigged a punking of two newbies, for an initiation...
After it, all parties could/would THEN be sworn to secrecy and contracted to it. <!-- s8-) --> 8-) <!-- s8-) -->
The only problem is, if either one or both got bent about it, there could be no hoax. <!-- s:shock: --> :shock: <!-- s:shock: --> Would MJ RISK that? He would not even be ABLE to know this, until after the guys were punked, inside the ambulance! Would MJ plan 25 to 29 years, and have it all <!-- s:o --> :o <!-- s:o --> come down to a personality's ability to take a joke, whom he has never met ????????????????????????????????????????
I'm not so sure. <!-- s:? --> :? <!-- s:? --> <!-- s:? --> :? <!-- s:? -->
I know he likes to watch, so MJ MUST be in one of the cars following the ambulance, in disguise or not. But not in the ambulance.
Using real EMTs and ambulance is WAY more risky. Way too many variables and things to go wrong. Things, incidentally, which would be out of MJ's control, once his car took him to the airport.
NO. NO. MJ is Mr. Hands-On. You KNOW he is!
I think MJ stayed until they even got "the old man" into a getaway car!! <!-- s:lol: --> :lol: <!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: --> :lol: <!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: --> :lol: <!-- s:lol: -->
They can't leave him at the hospital to be busted out <!-- s:!: --> :!: <!-- s:!: -->
NO LOOSE ENDS! <!-- s8-) --> 8-) <!-- s8-) --> <!-- s:lol: --> :lol: <!-- s:lol: -->
Some of those guys at the open doors of the ambulance (The MJ Hoax Patrol) may have placed him in a robe and a wheelchair and could have nonchalantly wheeled him out to a car, as any other old grandpa, going back home.
It is possible there was NO real hospital involvement, and of course, NO real dead body. Does anyone think that MJ would be caught dead adding even the idea of necromancer to his old standby crime, <!-- s:x --> :x <!-- s:x --> you-know-what <!-- s:evil: --> :evil: <!-- s:evil: --> ??
The answer is NO. Not a chance. NO propriety or decency has been disrespected. EVER.
Now, all you have to figure out, is if this could work, and what became of "the man we never knew". <!-- s:o --> :o <!-- s:o --> <!-- s:P --> :P <!-- s:P -->
But, that is, if you believe I could be right. <!-- s;) --> ;) <!-- s;) -->
<!-- s8-) --> 8-) <!-- s8-) -->
<!-- s:idea: --> :idea: <!-- s:idea: --> Say, there is a way to determine if the ambulance(s) were real, besides looking at equipment issues which could all be shopped in or out.
<!-- s:geek: --> :geek: <!-- s:geek: --> Do we have clear pix of the rear license plates? Have some cop tell you if either one is a real license plate number for a city/county vehicle. Or just compare with the real ones you know are real ambulances. ER vehicles have different number sequences or patterns ---like car dealer plates have a little "D" on them, so cops don't waste time running the plate which won't identify the driver; and trucks have the last 4 numbers grouped together always, (at least in my state) to tell cops there had better be a truck attached to that plate or it may be stolen...I'm sorry, <!-- s:roll: --> :roll: <!-- s:roll: --> I don't know the pattern or rule for ambulances, particularly in CA.
You LA investigators could let us all know... <!-- s:) --> :) <!-- s:) -->
A Hollywood property ambulance may have a streetworthy plate---but it would be against the law for it to be an official ER vehicle plate.
Do we think MJ would have thought of this, and put a fake/doctored plate on a vehicle??
Well, even, maybe, for just a minute..."the other day"?? <!-- s:?: --> :?: <!-- s:?: --> <!-- s:shock: --> :shock: <!-- s:shock: -->
I don't think MJ does anything illegal! <!-- s:D --> :D <!-- s:D --> I bet the regular old truck (?) plate is on the fake ambulance, STILL, and for less than ten bucks one could look it up at the DMV, and tell, HERE, not all the personal details, just if it is privately owned or a real ambulance. ....(be advised the owner of the vehicle will be told who has inquired about this, and be given your address, in case you are a stalker.)
Now DON'T Y'all give the man your address!!!!! Have some class. <!-- s:P --> :P <!-- s:P --> <!-- s:P --> :P <!-- s:P --> <!-- s:P --> :P <!-- s:P --> <!-- s:P --> :P <!-- s:P -->
Seriously, I'm NOT <!-- s:!: --> :!: <!-- s:!: --> suggesting anyone trespass on MJ's property, either. <!-- s:roll: --> :roll: <!-- s:roll: -->
Just, if you can see this in the pix that were taken, and enhance them to be readable... <!-- s:? --> :? <!-- s:? --> er...get on it!
(If we already did this---SORRY---please, provide me with a link to knowledge? <!-- s:) --> :) <!-- s:) -->
<!-- s8-) --> 8-) <!-- s8-) --> TANX <!-- s:!: --> :!: <!-- s:!: --> )
-
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310112#p310112 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310112#p310112)
Gina, if he did it for money, what's stopping the paramedics from saying, uh, that pic is fake. People who have no interest in keeping it quiet would know that it was fake. It's quite a famous pic. I highly doubt real emt's would say nothing at all about it in 20 months.
Paramedics are more than likely bound by the same privacy/HIPAA laws as doctors, nurses, etc. That is why the real paramedics won't say anything about that day. They legally can't talk about a patient. ;) They can speak about what happened that day in a court of law because they may have been given a subpoena.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_ ... nformation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_health_information)
Protected health information (PHI), under the US Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA), is any information about health status, provision of health care, or payment for health care that can be linked to a specific individual. This is interpreted rather broadly and includes any part of a patient’s medical record or payment history.
http://www.hipaa.org/ (http://www.hipaa.org/)
http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/hipaa/un ... index.html (http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/hipaa/understanding/index.html)
Do any of you who keep wondering why the REAL paramedics wouldn't say anything about the photo realize that there is such a thing as patient confidentiality?
Have you read any of the info regarding this issue? The paramedics take their job seriously and yes some would go for a pay out if they were of the greedy nature but most and especially the ones who arrived that day seem to take their job and the patient's privacy very seriously. The reason I believe the 911 dispatcher hung up sooner than one might expect is because Murray was on the scene and the 911 dispatcher stated he (Murray) has a higher authority than him. If Murray (Michael's personal physician) wasn't there than it would make sense for the 911 dispatcher to stay on the line and guide Alberto to do CPR.
My post about UCLA and breached patient files. One of whom is CA Gov. Arnold's wife. viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=311504#p311504 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=311504#p311504)
RunFaYaLife posted some good info.
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=100#p311825 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=100#p311825)
-
It's not against the HIPPA law for a paramedic to say that is not him (self, the paramedic "it's not me") appearing as a subject in a famous photograph of the victim of a high profile manslaughter case.
I don't buy it... that the authenticity would never be questioned if real paramedics (not in on it) were involved on 6/25/09.
I'm sticking to common sense dictating that the paramedics were actors, both that day and the other day-- even if that means the LAFD (or at least one) were working as actors at one point.
-
Just the fact that the ambulance had trouble leaving the property is enough for me to doubt that it was a real ambulance in a real emergency situation. I'm sure Ambulance drivers aren't permitted to drive at high speeds weaving in traffic, as they do, without superior driving skills to other drivers - their training must be rigorous. The guy backing out seems to take too long and needs too much assistance for a real driver who knows his vehicle. Why did he go in there frontways without checking how hard it was going to be to get out? I need to find the aerial view of the house to check this - I know I've seen it on this site somewhere - but isn't their a circular drive?
Also - why was the fire engine there? Station 71 knew from the 911 call that the emergency was medical not a fire or rescue. Is that normal practice? It seems a waste of resources, but I suppose those guys made themselves useful, by setting out the witches hats that stopped traffic in the street and by guiding the ambulance through the gates.
I believe that whatever Ben filmed that day could not have involved real paramedics believing it to be a real emergency (and anyone who has carefully watched that video would understand why). I think the fire truck was needed to prevent vehicles into the area and so the ambulance had to back out to explain why the whole raod need to be cut from traffic. So I believe the whole thing was staged including the timing of the tour bus.
-
...Really? Don't lump me in the We don't know crowd. I know very well that the torment Michael felt every day was real. It is written all over his face. You are seriously suggesting that he would go through a painful trial for a side show?
Please don't be insulted. My post was totally from personal experience. It is 100% horrifyingly the truth. You and I had this conversation before. I acquiesced to your point at that time, because, as I posted, personal experience cannot be refuted. At that time I only worked with cases of abuse; and you said you were.
I didn't watch the trial live. It was too upsetting. In 2005 I was a different person. Asleep, inexperienced, and naive beyond ALL belief. I have had my eyes ripped open by the Criminal Justice System. You have no idea. End of argument.
I was saying NOTHING about you at all. I don't understand how you took ANYthing I said personally.
I said, WE DO NOT KNOW THAT HIS CRIMINAL TRIAL WAS REAL. None of us DO, for a fact.
MJ cries ON CUE. He is an actor. Have you seen him in concert at all? You can't say you KNOW, any more than any of we other strangers to him can! He is a very clever magician.
This is a hoaxed death investigation and I will investigate in any direction I need to to get to truth. It is the truth that none of us KNOWS the truth about that. The thought NEVER occurred to any of us back then. Now, it is NOT such a taboo. It may be necessary to question.
I didn't say anything about him suffering, or my thinking he's naive. When (if) criminal charges are files against you, you do WHATEVER YOU CAN to loose yourself from that grip. You pay anything to get out of it. MJ said, I think, to Geraldo, once, that he was really naive about certain things. It is NOT a cut on him, simply a fact. MJ was a true innocent for a long time. He admitted it first.
I just have questions.
I only stated that we really do not know, knowing what we know NOW, about MJ hoaxing all kind of things, probably tied to this hoax. And, really, if this is just another twisted hoax of MJ's there actually IS no painful trial or anguish over a side show.
If it is a side show, it is his, and he thrives on the drama. No investigation? Some of his first work, unappreciated, possibly.
We need to question things. MJ has made his live thriller my business. He has roped me into his chaos. Maybe he WANTS it to all come out. If he doesn't, he's an adult; HE can speak up through proper channels, here. I hate wasting my time on a dead end. Just tell me to back off. <!-- s:| --> :| <!-- s:| -->
I have said before, all I need is a word from Admin. that this line of investigation is off limits and I'll be silent. I would NEVERaccuse someone and rub it in (what they supposedly went through). I am fascinated with the MJ I perceive him to be. But who knows how he is, anyway? You <!-- s:?: --> :?: <!-- s:?: --> <!-- s:lol: --> :lol: <!-- s:lol: --> I'm just waiting to see if that's the real one who eventually returns. I have been curious about him for decades. I would not waste my time here to cut on him. You misunderstand me, bigtime. But, it's naturally because you don't know me.
For civility's sake on this forum, please don't hold it against me that I learned the Truth the hard way, if it shows that I now trust NO one. <!-- s:cry: --> :cry: <!-- s:cry: --> I really am attempting to soften my edge, when I don't need it to survive. But, I don't bash anyone but evil, whom I do know intimately. Peace and good sleep.
-
imo on "THAT" day (not the other day mind you), real 911 call, real ambulance ,real paramedics, real patient just not MJ, but sick (dead??? remember the heating reported as set too high in the room being summer and all; trying to hide time of death???) and old looking, def not recognizable as our man, and our paramedics testified to this under oath in a real court of law. Problems; why no word from these paramedics as to why we CAN recognize MJ in the ambo pic? Imagine this all actually did go down as reported on june 25 2009, thats the thing that keeps me wondering ,how in hell did the paramedics NOT recognize MJ while we can on that pic ?? I suck at all things technical , but is there any evidence that MJ is shopped into that pic at all? Because that could be an agreement between Bens agency and the paramedics and their station/boss that it was to portray MJ in the pic in the best possible way, to give him his dignity and not go out looking like a old ,bald hospice patient.Maybe thats why no paramedics say anything bout the pic, if not bound by law, just maybe out of respect for their patient , who they actually believed to be MJ.
-
There is also a contradiction regarding his hair. The autopsy report states he had sparse, curly hair. Yet the ambulance photo demonstrates a full head of hair. Paramedics reportedly found an old, Asian-looking man. The photo shows a young-looking Michael.
-
I keep thinking about all of these great points everyone is making. The things that keep me going around in circles the most is the 911 call. Why did CM wait so long to call , because he was taking care of his patient....the hoax needed the begin at 12:21 in other words. The paramedics didn't recognize Michael, they saw an old, frail man. So we know that wasn't Michael. The picture in the ambulance is a young Michael not now Michael. Paramedic had trouble backing out of his driveway. Well, I can drive just as fast backing up as going forward using my side mirrors. I am nobody special, but I say a paramedic should be an exceptional driver and should be able to drive that vehicle just as well going backwards, turning or going forwards. So that in it's self says to me, actor. I was also thinking about Prince saying he was interested in directing films and how Michael had a film person from UCLA come to the house and set up a class room and teach them about film, directing. Then I looked at this silly but informative site www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Movie (http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Movie) choosing locations, actors, getting permission (confidential contracts), locations get permission from the owner. How many movies have been made in real court rooms? Many. Also, how many courtrooms do you see with stuffed toys? Jermaine..due justice process first, then truth. I truly believe this is a perfectly scripted movie, a mystery, like a clue game, with get purpose of messages, also clearing the name of this beautiful man that people have miss understood for so long. Many of us know this started many years ago, we see the clues, the numbers and now it's being all tied together. The truth will come after the "trial". So what does that mean, the trial isn't the truth? I think it really means it's a movie, the truth of just what Michael has gone through. With contracts made with key people and others will be used as performance artists thinking this is real. I am ONLY throwing thoughts out here. A couple other thoughts, paps are aggressive how come we only have a few videos, pictures and that's it. I would think they would be chasing that ambulance down, trying to get into UCLA to get another picture. I believe as soon as they (the paramedics) got the person into UCLA (which wasn't Michael) we didn't hear it, but I am sure "that's a wrap" was called out. Jermaine while interviewed on Larry King back in 2009, he said he went into the room at UCLA to see Michael. He was lying there, he looked as if he was sleeping so peaceful. His skin was like porcelain. He opened one of his eyes so he could see his beautiful eye one more time. This doesn't sound like a person who just went through intense life saving procedures which didn't work. Didn't we hear his skin was starting to discolor and there was bruising? There are no two stories the same. Even by the same person. I tell you if this isn't a movie, then it's just one fine MESS! Let's not go there! There I am done. I know you have all heard this before, I just needed to say it. Thanks for listening. Take care, Love to All
-
Who is the last person to jump out of the ambulance..? The one the bodyguard is trying really hard to hide ??
Or has this been debunked already ??
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=9059&hilit=+actors+involved+in+the+hoax (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=9059&hilit=+actors+involved+in+the+hoax)
-
@IT'S HER.....I don't usually get caught up in rediculous Innuendos, but the statement about Michael's 2005 trial just completely got under my skin....I did not bother to duplicate your LONG post again.
First....that is not what this tread is about!!!
Second...There ARE many people that were AT that 2005 Trial ..it is as real as the nose on your face! with more pain than anyone should have to suffer in a life time. And if you didn't even watch it, how can you so callously make such a remark?
Three...This is NOT another TWISTED as you remakred Hoax taking place here...Michael Joe Jackson is in the fight of his life AGAIN!! And to point the world in a direction of HOPE for our Souls, but I am certain that is a FACT that you have completely no understanding of, by any of the remarks you have made..
So I would have to say with all sincerity..if you think Michael's life is one big joke, then maybe this isn't the place for you to post your sentiments or the lack thereof. And PLEASE don't bother to respond because I will not reply, I think enough has been said already. We need to focus on what TS has presented in regards to the paramedics.
Forgive me Lord and All you Army of Love.... I have to go cry now for Michael and then ask forgiveness for my attitude...but this is just beyond me!!!!!!!!! I do Love you ALL!
-
First off, sorry for being off-topic but I just wanted to add a comment about the 2005 trial since it’s legitimacy is being discussed.
I think it’s entirely possible that the 2005 trial is real yet fake at the same time, like Murray’s upcoming trial.
Whether or not you believe the Illumination/NWO are real or not, you have to admit that someone(s) was out to get Michael with the child molestation allegations. A person doesn’t just willy-nilly accuse an innocent person of that unless your goal is to destroy and humiliate that person.
I do not believe for a second that Michael willingly went along with a fake trial in 2005, rather, that he was forced to endure a “fake” (but “real”) trial, if that makes any sense. Whoever was out to get Michael wanted to mind-f*ck MJ in the biggest way, put him through the torture and distress of a trial with an unknown outcome. I believe the jurors were probably real, as was the verdict (NOT GUILTY!!) but the actual intent of the trial was to f*ck with Michael’s head and force him to submit to them – to say “We can do this to you and there’s nothing you can do about it”. I don’t normally swear on here but I really can’t think of a better word for what they did to him.
Now, think V for Vendetta, one of the final scenes where Creedy and his men try to destroy V by shooting him down with a barrage of bullets. V falls to his knees, then stands up tall and says “MY TURN.” And he brings them all down.
Now we have Murray’s 2011 fake/real upcoming trial. It’s Michael’s turn now. He’s in control and he’s showing everyone how easy it is for a complete lie to make it to the court system and how an innocent person can be falsely perceived as something they are not.
-
(http://www.bittenandbound.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/ambulance-arrives-at-hospital-with-michael-jackson.jpg)
(http://www.buzzchow.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/michael-jackson-hospital-385x386.jpg)
(http://www.cayman27.com.ky/app/webroot/files/t1home_michael_jackson_hospital_x17.jpg)
On these photos - MJ on the stretcher entering the hospital - we can se at least 2 paramedics in dark blue suits.... :?
And i guess Murray is there in the white T-shirt...
I think that all these footage was staged before and handed over to the press/television as the finished material. It was not filmed by CNN as far as I know... (I might be wrong)
They could have easily film it before June 25 and then send it to the media to publish. Nowadays, nobody bothers to verify the material, we can observe the copy-paste journalism in bloossom...
-
Hi!
I got my focus on the pics that were made at the arriving at UCLA.
Photos 1 and 3 are obviously the same, the only difference is less background in no. 3.
The thing that is disturbing me on these pics is, that obviously nobody is in a hurry. I am working in a hospital, and when I see the paramedics coming in with an emergency, especially with a seriously ill patient, they hurry up a little bit more! :shock: that means: at least the upper body of the guy with glasses and dark hair should be leant a bit more forward.
The pics are obviously made within 1 or 2 seconds. Paramedics in a hurry should have done more moving during that time...
I am also missing a person who holds up an i.v. bottle. I hope you know what I mean. One normally drives the stretcher, one continues intubation, one carries the i.v. bottle. On all photos they seem too relaxed. combined to the suspiciously slow driving backwards of the ambulance in Carolwood Drive that brings me to the conclusion:
1) they are transporting a person who is already dead
2) they are transporting a person where emergency is not necessary - because this person is not in danger.
In any case this would mean: the ambulance pic that shows MJ is fake anyway.
What I don´t understand is that the paramedics weren´t aware for such a long time that the patient is MJ. Well, I´m just a midwife and no paramedic, but nevertheless I was involved into some cases of emergency concerning pregnant women who started labour at home which became dangerous; although you are in a hurry and the patient is in the center of your interest, you are at least a bit aware of the things that surround the scene - personal things, photos, furniture...
and nobody noticed anything? :ugeek:
Love & Peace
-
imo on "THAT" day (not the other day mind you), real 911 call, real ambulance ,real paramedics, real patient just not MJ, but sick (dead??? remember the heating reported as set too high in the room being summer and all; trying to hide time of death???) and old looking, def not recognizable as our man, and our paramedics testified to this under oath in a real court of law. Problems; why no word from these paramedics as to why we CAN recognize MJ in the ambo pic? Imagine this all actually did go down as reported on june 25 2009, thats the thing that keeps me wondering ,how in hell did the paramedics NOT recognize MJ while we can on that pic ?? I suck at all things technical , but is there any evidence that MJ is shopped into that pic at all? Because that could be an agreement between Bens agency and the paramedics and their station/boss that it was to portray MJ in the pic in the best possible way, to give him his dignity and not go out looking like a old ,bald hospice patient.Maybe thats why no paramedics say anything bout the pic, if not bound by law, just maybe out of respect for their patient , who they actually believed to be MJ.
You really think they cared about giving him his dignity?
I wish it would be true but I think all paparazzi, including Ben, look for the most shocking images. I think it is much more valuable for them a photo picturing Michael old, bold, frail, ugly or whatever......
Instead we see a beautiful Michael in that photo..... don't know why that makes me think of Lisa...she said he never let her see him without make up :?
-
can someone answer if the hospital was notified ahead of time that this person was enroute where would the hospital staff be at the time of arrival? waiting further inside or directly at the door?
-
I Jermaine while interviewed on Larry King back in 2009, he said he went into the room at UCLA to see Michael. He was lying there, he looked as if he was sleeping so peaceful. His skin was like porcelain. He opened one of his eyes so he could see his beautiful eye one more time.
he opened one of his eyes? Well, I find this veeeeeery hard to believe. One someone close dies the last thing you do is to open his eyes...at least here we close that person's eyes, not open them. Looks strange, even somehow inappropriate :?
-
Its Her wrote:
Please don't be insulted. My post was totally from personal experience. It is 100% horrifyingly the truth. You and I had this conversation before. I acquiesced to your point at that time, because, as I posted, personal experience cannot be refuted. At that time I only worked with cases of abuse; and you said you were.
I didn't watch the trial live. It was too upsetting. In 2005 I was a different person. Asleep, inexperienced, and naive beyond ALL belief. I have had my eyes ripped open by the Criminal Justice System. You have no idea. End of argument.
I was saying NOTHING about you at all. I don't understand how you took ANYthing I said personally.
I said, WE DO NOT KNOW THAT HIS CRIMINAL TRIAL WAS REAL. None of us DO, for a fact.
MJ cries ON CUE. He is an actor. Have you seen him in concert at all? You can't say you KNOW, any more than any of we other strangers to him can! He is a very clever magician.
Um this will be my last response on this topic. When I stated I find your post insulting I was not referring to myself. I was saying your post is INSULTING to Michael. If your post was from personal experience it usually helps if you would write that or IMO so there would be no misunderstanding. We have never had a conversation about the trial. We did have a conversation regarding mind control, Illuminati, DID, etc. Just because I have abuse issues from my past doesn't mean I react off of that in an emotional way nor do I allow my emotions about my own personal stuff influence my opinion on the trial.
You say you didn't watch the trial. Well neither did I. I was in the hospital at the time sedated heavily due to 3 life saving operations. You say you have personal experience: with the Justice system? hmmm well so do I. The life I chose to live is illegal and part of doing that job has risks. One of those risks is going to jail. I have been to jail more times than counting my fingers and toes. I have spent time in jail beyond a day; I did 4 months. I have had a full on jury trial over theft charges which is a felony in the state of Hawaii. I was found Not Guilty.
So again you continue to say WE don't know if his trial was real, like I said I am not a we. Yes it is possible to know for a fact that it wasn't a side show regardless of him being an actor. The charges that he faced had to do with the most disgusting thing. The way I can know for sure; it is called empathy.
Yes I have seen him in concert. 1997 HIStory tour in Hawaii.
-
Hmmmm. I really want to know if the paramedics were real or not.
We don't have that much untill now, do we?
Personally I don't think they were actors, but other people obviously do. I must confess I don't understand the logic of it.
-
I keep thinking about all of these great points everyone is making. The things that keep me going around in circles the most is the 911 call. Why did CM wait so long to call , because he was taking care of his patient....the hoax needed the begin at 12:21 in other words. The paramedics didn't recognize Michael, they saw an old, frail man. So we know that wasn't Michael. The picture in the ambulance is a young Michael not now Michael. Paramedic had trouble backing out of his driveway. Well, I can drive just as fast backing up as going forward using my side mirrors. I am nobody special, but I say a paramedic should be an exceptional driver and should be able to drive that vehicle just as well going backwards, turning or going forwards. So that in it's self says to me, actor. I was also thinking about Prince saying he was interested in directing films and how Michael had a film person from UCLA come to the house and set up a class room and teach them about film, directing. Then I looked at this silly but informative site http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Movie (http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Movie) choosing locations, actors, getting permission (confidential contracts), locations get permission from the owner. How many movies have been made in real court rooms? Many. Also, how many courtrooms do you see with stuffed toys? Jermaine..due justice process first, then truth. I truly believe this is a perfectly scripted movie, a mystery, like a clue game, with get purpose of messages, also clearing the name of this beautiful man that people have miss understood for so long. Many of us know this started many years ago, we see the clues, the numbers and now it's being all tied together. The truth will come after the "trial". So what does that mean, the trial isn't the truth? I think it really means it's a movie, the truth of just what Michael has gone through. With contracts made with key people and others will be used as performance artists thinking this is real. I am ONLY throwing thoughts out here. A couple other thoughts, paps are aggressive how come we only have a few videos, pictures and that's it. I would think they would be chasing that ambulance down, trying to get into UCLA to get another picture. I believe as soon as they (the paramedics) got the person into UCLA (which wasn't Michael) we didn't hear it, but I am sure "that's a wrap" was called out. Jermaine while interviewed on Larry King back in 2009, he said he went into the room at UCLA to see Michael. He was lying there, he looked as if he was sleeping so peaceful. His skin was like porcelain. He opened one of his eyes so he could see his beautiful eye one more time. This doesn't sound like a person who just went through intense life saving procedures which didn't work. Didn't we hear his skin was starting to discolor and there was bruising? There are no two stories the same. Even by the same person. I tell you if this isn't a movie, then it's just one fine MESS! Let's not go there! There I am done. I know you have all heard this before, I just needed to say it. Thanks for listening. Take care, Love to All
I have researched, read books and watched videos, just like you all. But, my mind keeps coming back to what this post says to sum my findings out. I keep saying...what is to say, that MICHAEL isn't fueling the media? With the first DJ announcement, with the Enquirer article, with the ironic released premiere of TII with LA live, with the 911 call, ambulance, the info the media gets, really, who's to say it's not ALL, to control the media?? Isn't that what they've done to him all these years?
-
imo on "THAT" day (not the other day mind you), real 911 call, real ambulance ,real paramedics, real patient just not MJ, but sick (dead??? remember the heating reported as set too high in the room being summer and all; trying to hide time of death???) and old looking, def not recognizable as our man, and our paramedics testified to this under oath in a real court of law. Problems; why no word from these paramedics as to why we CAN recognize MJ in the ambo pic? Imagine this all actually did go down as reported on june 25 2009, thats the thing that keeps me wondering ,how in hell did the paramedics NOT recognize MJ while we can on that pic ?? I suck at all things technical , but is there any evidence that MJ is shopped into that pic at all? Because that could be an agreement between Bens agency and the paramedics and their station/boss that it was to portray MJ in the pic in the best possible way, to give him his dignity and not go out looking like a old ,bald hospice patient.Maybe thats why no paramedics say anything bout the pic, if not bound by law, just maybe out of respect for their patient , who they actually believed to be MJ.
You really think they cared about giving him his dignity?
I wish it would be true but I think all paparazzi, including Ben, look for the most shocking images. I think it is much more valuable for them a photo picturing Michael old, bold, frail, ugly or whatever......
Instead we see a beautiful Michael in that photo..... don't know why that makes me think of Lisa...she said he never let her see him without make up :?
ah, but i'm not saying he's dead and they wanted to preserve his dignity, i'm saying that it could be a possible reason why no real paramedics from that day are coming forward and saying "hey, that pic is fake, he looked nothing like that!" Maybe Ben convinced the paramedics that MJ deserved to look good on his final pic, the fans are hurting enough yada yada yada...and so everyones lips are sealed. I personally believe that day real paramedics responded to the 911 call and found an old sick man, not MJ. They were surprised when they found out it was supposed to be Michael Jackson. I'm just trying out possible why's that they don't speak up on the pic. As for Ben, well Benjamin is just a really nice guy, paparazzi sure ,but a nice one .Really.
-
I understand. But in this case I think the paramedics would become suspicious about the whole thing.
I really can't reconcile the photo with their statement that they didn't recognize MJ and with their silence about the photo if they didn't recognize him. Only if they are in. Or maybe none of them saw the photo, maybe they are unaware of the photo, maybe they don't care about MJ and never bothered to follow the story and see the photo.
-
How many movies have been made in real court rooms? Many. Also, how many courtrooms do you see with stuffed toys? Jermaine..due justice process first, then truth. I truly believe this is a perfectly scripted movie. The truth will come after the "trial". So what does that mean, the trial isn't the truth? I think it really means it's a movie, the truth of just what Michael has gone through. With contracts made with key people and others will be used as performance artists thinking this is real. I am ONLY throwing thoughts out here.
Sorry to disappoint you , but I did not see Warner Brothers or Paramount Pictures in the courtroom to agree with you it is a movie, it is not a movie. As I said before my point of view is the hoax has been planned and accomplished before and up to the hospital events. Afterwards all that related to authorities is real: investigation,courts, etc. Besides autopsy;the AR is still questionable whether it's based on someone who died instead of Michael or coroner was bribed (which to me hardly possible), or Michael really died.
The only possibility I think of that court is happening to make bad people to believe Michael is dead (not not real court or movie), if there is a proved murder attempt to Michael and government protects him. Not necessarily MJ needs to be in protective program. In this case MJ will not return.
P.S. I just suddenly think that may be for members who live far from the USA it is easy to imagine that everything in Hollywood is movie, nothing is real including courts, judges, and DAs? May be that's what happening. If you would have lived here and go to the court or Forest Lawn, be close to see yourself what is happening, you might change your view and rich imagination would blow away? Possibility.
-
I understand. But in this case I think the paramedics would become suspicious about the whole thing.
I really can't reconcile the photo with their statement that they didn't recognize MJ and with their silence about the photo if they didn't recognize him. Only if they are in. Or maybe none of them saw the photo, maybe they are unaware of the photo, maybe they don't care about MJ and never bothered to follow the story and see the photo.
i agree about the photo and the paramedics stating they did not recognize MJ. I can't believe they'd be in on this, and to date not say anything about it. The fewer in on it ,the better chance of pulling it off. Three can keep a secret ,if two of them are dead...
-
MJhunny wrote:
imo on "THAT" day (not the other day mind you), real 911 call, real ambulance ,real paramedics, real patient just not MJ, but sick (dead??? remember the heating reported as set too high in the room being summer and all; trying to hide time of death???) and old looking, def not recognizable as our man, and our paramedics testified to this under oath in a real court of law. Problems; why no word from these paramedics as to why we CAN recognize MJ in the ambo pic? Imagine this all actually did go down as reported on june 25 2009, thats the thing that keeps me wondering ,how in hell did the paramedics NOT recognize MJ while we can on that pic ?? I suck at all things technical , but is there any evidence that MJ is shopped into that pic at all? Because that could be an agreement between Bens agency and the paramedics and their station/boss that it was to portray MJ in the pic in the best possible way, to give him his dignity and not go out looking like a old ,bald hospice patient.Maybe thats why no paramedics say anything bout the pic, if not bound by law, just maybe out of respect for their patient , who they actually believed to be MJ.
with this we must conclude that MJ knew it was going to die on June 25, 2009 at a certain time?, so Ben was that day at home waiting for the "fatal outcome", I do not think so ;)
-
Hi Scorpionchik
"P.S. I just suddenly think that may be for members who live far from the USA it is easy to imagine that everything in Hollywood is movie, nothing is real including courts, judges, and DAs? May be that's what happening. If you would have lived here and go to the court or Forest Lawn, be close to see yourself what is happening, you might change your view and rich imagination would blow away? Possibility."
I do live in the USA, I understand what you are saying completely. I was only throwing some thoughts around. I worked for lawyers and the court system years ago. So I do understand. I was trying to toss some ideas around, sometimes the most illogical ideas can help you find the logical. That's all. Take care.
-
You sure it is not against the HIPPA law? Btw: I have a background in medical coding and billing. I have worked for a private Dr.'s office and I have worked for a health insurance company processing claims and customer service. I legally could not say (outside of the realm of my job) I didn't work on so and so claim.
Only exception to that would be if I was given certain privilege to speak on it.
It's not against the HIPPA law for a paramedic to say that is not him (self, the paramedic "it's not me") appearing as a subject in a famous photograph of the victim of a high profile manslaughter case.
I don't buy it... that the authenticity would never be questioned if real paramedics (not in on it) were involved on 6/25/09.
I'm sticking to common sense dictating that the paramedics were actors, both that day and the other day-- even if that means the LAFD (or at least one) were working as actors at one point.
Protected health information (PHI), under the US Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA), is any information about health status, provision of health care, or payment for health care that can be linked to a specific individual. This is interpreted rather broadly and includes any part of a patient’s medical recordor payment history.
The paramedics are providing the patient health care therefore they become part of the privacy issue. They also become part of the patient's medical record.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm guilty of saying some outrages things on how this happened. Running two theories at the same time, lol
I said Michael rode to the hospital on the gurney based on footage being shown to us of a dude sitting up. I also said that footage could of been a subliminal clue to get people wondering who the heck was that? I also said one of the paramedics was suspect to me in the sense he looks similiar to Michael. I also said that the paramedic in question was shown being filmed through the gate and that perhaps that was another subliminal clue to get people wondering who the heck is that? I also said that would connect the dots to the paramedic in question as being Michael riding to the hospital not as a dead person but his own medic.
I am now going to defer to the post from TS that gives hints and clues to how this was done and how many would need to be in on it.
Peace
<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=125&t=7194 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=125&t=7194)<!-- l -->
4-36. Hoax Objections Answered
Those who believe in the intentional murder theory, as well as those who believe the official story, have often given one or more of the following reasons against the hoax: there would be way too many people “in on it” (so surely someone would’ve let the cat out of the bag by now); or, many of the things that have happened would be illegal, if it was a hoax; or, the government would not be in on a plan to expose corruption in the government, etc.
First and most important: the intentional murder theory (designed to look like a fake death) would require as much or more people to be “in on it”, than the hoax theory (it even requires the family to be involved). And if it’s possible to get people involved in murder, for whatever reason (money, or power, or whatever): don’t you think it would be even easier to get people involved in a hoax?
Besides, the entire state of California is not in on the hoax. MJ has been planning this hoax for many years; and he had the time and influence to get a few key people in the right positions to pull it off—and yes, even government agencies still have some good people in them. Look at history: many times people in high positions have stood up against the corruption in their own system (government, or church, etc).
But MJ did not involve large quantities of people. In fact, the “three-way theory” is basically correct {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=5382&start=0}; this theory states that the fewer people “in on it”, the better (although more than three are actually involved, and the “three-way theory” does allow for more than three).
Also, as far as possible, legal loopholes were used. Nevertheless, with a hoax of this magnitude and importance: whether the line was ever crossed, between being inside or outside of legal loopholes, is a question that probably doesn’t even need to be answered.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
4-37. Hints on the “How’s” of the Hoax
In this update, I have gone into great detail about the timing of the hoax (as well as a few other aspects). Previously, I have gone into great detail about the reasons for the hoax {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/search.php?author_id=1440&sr=posts}. That leaves only one frontier remaining: how did MJ succeed in pulling off this massive hoax?
I’m not going to go into great detail on that now, it would be very long—and this update is already the longest update by far. But I will give some hints, to help you go in the right direction if you want to investigate it further.
For starters, maybe it is time to create a sub-forum for Coherent Theories. By this, I mean theories that start putting all the pieces together, fitting into one bigger picture. But we can’t have MJ hopping on a plane at LAX, escaping out of a tunnel in the basement of UCLA, and riding alive in the helicopter to the coroner’s office, as well as in the other helicopter—all at the same time. This would not qualify as a coherent theory.
I think we already have a huge clue from Jermaine, telling us that MJ went to the “airport”—NOT the hospital. And in fact, it would’ve been very risky and unnecessary for him to ride alive in the ambulance to UCLA, and then go into UCLA where he could be easily recognized (and hard to play dead), and then try to escape somehow. What would be the point?
Based on the planned timing of the hoax, we should now be able to see very plainly that the living MJ body double theory doesn’t work. There is no chance that a living double just happened to die on the right year, the right day, and the right hour.
This leaves us with three possibilities. There was no body at all, which would require quite a few people to be “in on it”. There was a dummy, not a real human; this reduces the number of people “in on it”, and also makes it easy to duplicate the looks of MJ (but paramedics would need to be “in on it”, because they would not be fooled by a dummy). Or there was a real human corpse, which had recently died. In fact, at different times and places, there could’ve been more than one corpse and/or dummy used as needed.
Considering the corpse possibility: do you remember anything about the room being heated extra warm—in the summer of all times {http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/26/jackson-time-of-death-a-mystery/}? Maybe the room was heated to make the corpse feel warm, like it had just died. And do you remember the paramedics saying that MJ had been dead for more than an hour before they arrived—and also that they did not realize it was MJ, and thought it looked like an old man? {http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/27/paramedics-jackson-dead-when-we-arrived/; <!-- m -->http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/25/michael-j ... c-arrest/; (http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/25/michael-jackson-dies-death-dead-cardiac-arrest/;)<!-- m --> <!-- m -->http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/26/michael-j ... -911-call/ (http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/26/michael-jackson-the-911-call/)<!-- m -->}
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
4-38. Only a Few Would Need to Be “In On It”
Let me also clue you in on a few tricks, so that only a relatively few people would need to be “in on it”. The endlessly discussed helicopter ride to the coroner: it could’ve had a living and/or a dead body in it, but not MJ; and yet none of the people in the copter, or working that situation, would’ve had any clue that MJ was alive.
All you would need to do is create a diversion for the media and public: the helicopter and all would be a big show for the media, while they transport the (supposedly) “real” MJ’s body in an unmarked vehicle—this would keep MJ’s body safer. And all the people “involved” in that diversion operation would play right along, and obey without question like good little boys and girls, thinking all the while that MJ’s dead body was being transported in some unmarked vehicle (and not even questioning whether or not MJ was actually dead). And even if they suspected later that MJ is alive, how would they know? They would not know, they would just suspect it (like hoax believers).
The fact that it’s a criminal case is another good alibi for secrecy and cover-up; this way, nobody thinks twice when they’re told not to talk about what they did or did not see at UCLA on June 25 (or other times and places).
Some have said that Forest Lawn (FL) would need to be in on the hoax; and maybe they are, but maybe not. If there was an actual dead body used during at least some of the process: then a dead body could’ve been at FL, even though it was not MJ. And sooner or later, the family could say: “We’ve decided to bury MJ somewhere else; but for privacy and security reasons, we want the public to think that he is buried here.”
They might even have FL sign confidentiality agreements, promising not to let anyone know that MJ was not buried at FL. Of course FL would still get paid, because the family did purchase space there {http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/04/us/04jackson.html}; and since FL got their money, they would not care where MJ was actually buried, and that would be the end of it—FL might never imagine that MJ is still alive.
Do I need to give any more hints? I think I’ve said enough already. Besides, you want some surprises left for after Bamsday, don’t you?
-
Gina:
sandythyme wrote:I Jermaine while interviewed on Larry King back in 2009, he said he went into the room at UCLA to see Michael. He was lying there, he looked as if he was sleeping so peaceful. His skin was like porcelain. He opened one of his eyes so he could see his beautiful eye one more time.
"he opened one of his eyes? Well, I find this veeeeeery hard to believe. One someone close dies the last thing you do is to open his eyes...at least here we close that person's eyes, not open them. Looks strange, even somehow inappropriate :?
That's what makes me question Jermaine in the hospital because you are right, it is very hard to believe and inappropriate. Let me go through the interviews tonight if I can find it I will PM you. Thanks and take care
-
Fordtocarr
I have researched, read books and watched videos, just like you all. But, my mind keeps coming back to what this post says to sum my findings out. I keep saying...what is to say, that MICHAEL isn't fueling the media? With the first DJ announcement, with the Enquirer article, with the ironic released premiere of TII with LA live, with the 911 call, ambulance, the info the media gets, really, who's to say it's not ALL, to control the media?? Isn't that what they've done to him all these years?
You have a very good point. Michael could be giving it right back to them. Good thought. It is so interesting how so many people can have so many great ideas. Take care
-
Hi Scorpionchik
"P.S. I just suddenly think that may be for members who live far from the USA it is easy to imagine that everything in Hollywood is movie, nothing is real including courts, judges, and DAs? May be that's what happening. If you would have lived here and go to the court or Forest Lawn, be close to see yourself what is happening, you might change your view and rich imagination would blow away? Possibility."
I do live in the USA, I understand what you are saying completely. I was only throwing some thoughts around. I worked for lawyers and the court system years ago. So I do understand. I was trying to toss some ideas around, sometimes the most illogical ideas can help you find the logical. That's all. Take care.
Working with lawyers and being in courts make it possible you to believe judge and counselors can star movie puting toys around to be a subject of joke? That's what you call illogical idea that will bring us to logical answers? So far we have 1 video made by someone who could put those toys through photoshop and out on youtube to make fun of our legal system. The woman who was actually on prelim hearing I met in the court does not say in her video that there were toys all over the room, does she?
I am not debunking hoax of course, but I am against the idea to believe that authorities are in the hoax. They may protect Michael if that is the case and it still proves that their acts are real.
And the fact that my post does not get replies is only proves that my statements are so true & logical that no one can challenge otherwise.
-
Hi Scorpionchik
Working with lawyers and being in courts make it possible you to believe judge and counselors can star movie puting toys around to be a subject of joke? That's what you call illogical idea that will bring us to logical answers?
I bid you respect. My thoughts are my own and I apologize if you are taking them incorrectly. That's ok. I appreciate what you are trying to say. Take care.
-
question : how does it work when people file claims against the estate. like we know klien filed one and some others . is that public knowledge? if so if michael was actually treated at the hospital shouldn't some kind of claim have been filed ?
-
Fordtocarr
I have researched, read books and watched videos, just like you all. But, my mind keeps coming back to what this post says to sum my findings out. I keep saying...what is to say, that MICHAEL isn't fueling the media? With the first DJ announcement, with the Enquirer article, with the ironic released premiere of TII with LA live, with the 911 call, ambulance, the info the media gets, really, who's to say it's not ALL, to control the media?? Isn't that what they've done to him all these years?
You have a very good point. Michael could be giving it right back to them. Good thought. It is so interesting how so many people can have so many great ideas. Take care
And I thank you back :D
-
I agree with most of It'sHer's theorie, re actor paramedics, staged 911 calls etc. With the addition of low enforcement involvement on some level. It is really the only thing explaining why the real ambulance 71 crew has not spoken up. Also, it ties in to the previously addressed code 71- meaning approved absence. If nothing was random, than the choice of # of ambulance was not, either.
Also, if there was no real 911 call, and there is no law enforcement involvement, I think actual authorites would have come forward. You can't pay off everyone. And- there are bigger lures than short-term gain. Meaning, notoriety for exposing the hoax.
To me, some degree of witness protection, similar program, or law enforcement involvement (remember, the chief of la police resigned shortly after June 09- at least I think that's who it was, or other high up police official) is the ONE thing that ties together the non-matching photos, the different version 911 calls, the real paramedics vs actors issue, and impunity. I always believed there was a threat to Michael's life- as did he according to several people. Maybe, he finally got the attention he deserved and things tied into his long-term plans.
It also helps explain changes in BAM timeline as well as trail date changes- if things are not purely up to Michael.
Several people are generally on the right track, including this quoted comment here and the one before it {by MsTrinity333, http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=150#p312205}. So I am now going to drop a huge clue. Actually, I thought someone would find this before now, especially with the timing clue that I gave when I posted the beginning of this thread (MsTrinity333 :o ).
Here is your big clue: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption
-
MsTrinity wrote almost the same theory I wrote on page 3.
I haven't read all 3 pages yet, so this theory could have been written before. Here is my theory regarding to the ambulance issue. An ambulance that looks like the real ambulance came to a studio or Michael's house before 6-25-09. There were actors to play paramedics. And the pictures were taken on that day. And the ambulance went to the hospital with Michael inside on that day as well where we had these photos of him getting into the hospital sitting on the stretcher.
(http://www.cayman27.com.ky/app/webroot/files/t1home_michael_jackson_hospital_x17.jpg)
And on 6-25-2009 a real ambulance came to MJ's house with real paramedics and they found an old Asian looking man, probably who died hours ago and tried to survive him. And that is the reason why the paramedics said the patient didn't look like Michael. I still believe a dead body was used on 6-25 because of the paramedics' comments about the patient and how MJ's room was kept warm in the middle of summer. And the paramedics who are in court are also the real paramedics who went MJ's house on 6-25. I do not know if they said anything related how the patient looked like on that day in their testimony but probably they thought that MJ was so sick and fragile and that was the reason why he looked like an old guy. Michael can be the most famous person in this world but he wasn't in front of the cameras for some time and not everyone is his fans to follow and catch up what he looks like recently.
Michael had to use a fake ambulance to make fake photos because you could never know if someone (who has an agreement like Ben or some random people who were there) can take a nice shot of inside of the ambulance when the ambulance is moving. The scene needed to look real on 6-25 and there had to be witnesses that an ambulance was there on that day. And the ambulance was slow, without the sirens but still it couldn't stop and wait there for people to get nice shots through tinted windows.
So I believe that is the reason why Michael staged an ambulance scene before the real one on 6-25. And he used photoshop and changed his face, added some extra clues for us to understand the ambo pic is fake. BUT it couldn't be too fake to make everyone understand that it is fake. Until the statement came from Brian Oxman due to fake ambulance picture, people(non-believers) were still considering it as a real picture.
Probably Ben was called on the staged ambo day and on the real ambo day, to take the pictures on the staged ambo day and to be there on 6-25 to talk and make a statement like he was the one who took the ambo pictures. Do we even see this guy around the ambulance or his friend what ever he looks like on 6-25? And why that guy who took the picture doesn't talk but Ben does? To make a "goof" like "... on that day and the other d... umm"?
I always thought that Michael was under some kind of protection program and that explains how the DA, the police, the court etc are involved in the hoax. He needed their help to pull this off and make everything legal, especially not to get in trouble after he comes back.
-
This is what it says on the link TS wrote:
Public Corruption
It’s our top priority among criminal investigations—and for good reason.
Public corruption poses a fundamental threat to our national security and way of life. It impacts everything from how well our borders are secured and our neighborhoods protected…to verdicts handed down in courts…to the quality of our roads, schools, and other government services. And it takes a significant toll on our pocketbooks, wasting billions in tax dollars every year.
The FBI is singularly situated to combat this corruption, with the skills and capabilities to run complex undercover operations and surveillance.
-
I thought MJ could some how be under the WPP without being fully under it. I remember someone asking (Integrity...viewtopic.php?f=5&t=18190 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=18190)) asking a question if MJ is under witness protection...I guess you got your answer. :)
So is there more to it (this thread), so the paramedics, courts and all that are a setup by the Government...so does that mean the paramedics know that they are part of the hoax or do they think that they are just working with the government?. Which brings me to the question, since MJ is in under some sort of protection what information is MJ giving to them for the government to help him or was his life really in danger?.
-
So is there more to it (this thread), so the paramedics, courts and all that are a setup by the Government...so does that mean the paramedics know that they are part of the hoax or do they think that they are just working with the government?. Which brings me to the question, since MJ is in under some sort of protection what information is MJ giving to them for the government to help him or was his life really in danger?.
When we look at the numerology part of the hoax it definitely tells us why Michael had to fake his death. It is about exposing illuminati. I do think that Michael did this not only for his and his children's safety but also for all of our safeties. To open our eyes to the truth, to make us see what is really going on underneath the surface. Was he in danger? Yes, he was like all of us are. But as a very strong power in music industry, of course he was in more danger than anybody else is.
-
Hello eveybody.
I usually hate Mondays, especially in the morning.
But today TS decided to put us on a track. I hope TS is not playing games, sustaining once again theories TS doesn't believe in, just to challenge us.
I am not surprised of the track he's pointing to, as it is the only LOGICAL explanation - as I see it - that reconciles ALL the inconsistances of that day. Unless everything was one big joke of God.
So we are back to FBI, sorry I said CIA first, I made a mistake, but when I realised it - it was too late to edit my post.
If this track is not a deceiving one I guess the next question is what the public corruption
has to do with Michael Jackson and what is Michael's part in this whole operation.
"It’s our top priority among criminal investigations—and for good reason.
Public corruption poses a fundamental threat to our national security and way of life. It impacts everything from how well our borders are secured and our neighborhoods protected…to verdicts handed down in courts…to the quality of our roads, schools, and other government services. And it takes a significant toll on our pocketbooks, wasting billions in tax dollars every year.
The FBI is singularly situated to combat this corruption, with the skills and capabilities to run complex undercover operations and surveillance."
This to me refers only to United States of America, their borders, their roads, schools and everything. And how comes FBI releases this with ... in it?! Really, official releases don't contain ... :?
-
Maybe the public corruption in Michael's case is reffering to Sneddon and all the false acusations against Michael and to the persons who were behind Sneddon, who wanted to bring Michael down and used Sneddon as a pawn ?!
-
Reading what TS has giving us has a huge clue it kinda reminded me of this...
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N0Ogaskv88[/youtube]
Could this be real? I believe of course he must have some kind of help from various agencies or maybe less than two. This is all one big puzzle (hoax) that piece by piece by piece...will come together.
(http://www.kristinaevey.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/puzzle_pieces.gif)
-
I agree with most of It'sHer's theorie, re actor paramedics, staged 911 calls etc. With the addition of low enforcement involvement on some level. It is really the only thing explaining why the real ambulance 71 crew has not spoken up. Also, it ties in to the previously addressed code 71- meaning approved absence. If nothing was random, than the choice of # of ambulance was not, either.
Also, if there was no real 911 call, and there is no law enforcement involvement, I think actual authorites would have come forward. You can't pay off everyone. And- there are bigger lures than short-term gain. Meaning, notoriety for exposing the hoax.
To me, some degree of witness protection, similar program, or law enforcement involvement (remember, the chief of la police resigned shortly after June 09- at least I think that's who it was, or other high up police official) is the ONE thing that ties together the non-matching photos, the different version 911 calls, the real paramedics vs actors issue, and impunity. I always believed there was a threat to Michael's life- as did he according to several people. Maybe, he finally got the attention he deserved and things tied into his long-term plans.
It also helps explain changes in BAM timeline as well as trail date changes- if things are not purely up to Michael.
Several people are generally on the right track, including this quoted comment here and the one before it {by MsTrinity333, http://http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=150#p312205 (http://http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=150#p312205)}. So I am now going to drop a huge clue. Actually, I thought someone would find this before now, especially with the timing clue that I gave when I posted the beginning of this thread (MsTrinity333 <!-- s:o --> :o <!-- s:o --> ).
Here is your big clue: http://http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption (http://http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption)
<!-- s:oops: --> :oops: <!-- s:oops: --> <!-- s:oops: --> :oops: <!-- s:oops: --> <!-- s:oops: --> :oops: <!-- s:oops: -->
And there I was, looking for clues in your posting times and even asked what numerology had to do with your question and I didn´t catch it... 333, the number of pages of the FBI files. **Bangs head against wall** This proves even more that I really need a new brain. We have been discussing the FBI and it's involvement many times last year, and somehow it took a backseat in my head.
Does this mean that the leave pattern in the ambulance picture refers to the laurel branches in the FBI shield?
I need to think about that undercover thing. If he has been an undercover agent/informant, it would explain a lot, including the Joe-Joseph mystery on legal papers for example. And if this is the case, it hasn't been since June 25, but for years already.
Okay, I'm going to fry my brain over this again.
-
imo on "THAT" day (not the other day mind you), real 911 call, real ambulance ,real paramedics, real patient just not MJ, but sick (dead??? remember the heating reported as set too high in the room being summer and all; trying to hide time of death???) and old looking, def not recognizable as our man, and our paramedics testified to this under oath in a real court of law. Problems; why no word from these paramedics as to why we CAN recognize MJ in the ambo pic? Imagine this all actually did go down as reported on june 25 2009, thats the thing that keeps me wondering ,how in hell did the paramedics NOT recognize MJ while we can on that pic ?? I suck at all things technical , but is there any evidence that MJ is shopped into that pic at all?
Because that could be an agreement between Bens agency and the paramedics and their station/boss that it was to portray MJ in the pic in the best possible way, to give him his dignity and not go out looking like a old ,bald hospice patient.
Maybe thats why no paramedics say anything bout the pic, if not bound by law, just maybe out of respect for their patient , who they actually believed to be MJ
Hi MJhunny,
I just wanted to tell you that, the words I have enlarged, your words, express the purest, kindest, most naturally sincere sentiment, in applying a motive to others, that I have heard here in MONTHs.
It blessed and caught me way off guard, to find that someone would apply kindness and consideration; a little HUMANITY, <!-- s8-) --> 8-) <!-- s8-) --> to the same pix and the players involved with it, which all of us have been focused on technically, mechanically dissecting, pretty much...
Man <!-- s:!: --> :!: <!-- s:!: --> I can't tell you how sweet that is.
You thought of it, because it is what YOU would do. You must be very sweet. Bless you for sharing that Love!! <!-- s:D --> :D <!-- s:D --> <!-- s:D --> :D <!-- s:D --> <!-- s:D --> :D <!-- s:D -->
-
I agree with most of It'sHer's theorie, re actor paramedics, staged 911 calls etc. With the addition of low enforcement involvement on some level. It is really the only thing explaining why the real ambulance 71 crew has not spoken up. Also, it ties in to the previously addressed code 71- meaning approved absence. If nothing was random, than the choice of # of ambulance was not, either.
Also, if there was no real 911 call, and there is no law enforcement involvement, I think actual authorites would have come forward. You can't pay off everyone. And- there are bigger lures than short-term gain. Meaning, notoriety for exposing the hoax.
To me, some degree of witness protection, similar program, or law enforcement involvement (remember, the chief of la police resigned shortly after June 09- at least I think that's who it was, or other high up police official) is the ONE thing that ties together the non-matching photos, the different version 911 calls, the real paramedics vs actors issue, and impunity. I always believed there was a threat to Michael's life- as did he according to several people. Maybe, he finally got the attention he deserved and things tied into his long-term plans.
It also helps explain changes in BAM timeline as well as trail date changes- if things are not purely up to Michael.
Several people are generally on the right track, including this quoted comment here and the one before it {by MsTrinity333, http://http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=150#p312205 (http://http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=150#p312205)}. So I am now going to drop a huge clue. Actually, I thought someone would find this before now, especially with the timing clue that I gave when I posted the beginning of this thread (MsTrinity333 <!-- s:o --> :o <!-- s:o --> ).
Here is your big clue: http://http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption (http://http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption)
<!-- s:oops: --> :oops: <!-- s:oops: --> <!-- s:oops: --> :oops: <!-- s:oops: --> <!-- s:oops: --> :oops: <!-- s:oops: -->
And there I was, looking for clues in your posting times and even asked what numerology had to do with your question and I didn´t catch it... 333, the number of pages of the FBI files. **Bangs head against wall** This proves even more that I really need a new brain. We have been discussing the FBI and it's involvement many times last year, and somehow it took a backseat in my head.
Does this mean that the leave pattern in the ambulance picture refers to the laurel branches in the FBI shield?
I need to think about that undercover thing. If he has been an undercover agent/informant, it would explain a lot, including the Joe-Joseph mystery on legal papers for example. And if this is the case, it hasn't been since June 25, but for years already.
Okay, I'm going to fry my brain over this again.
Where does it say the number of pages in the FBI files?
-
**Bangs head against wall** This proves even more that I really need a new brain. Does this mean that the leave pattern in the ambulance picture refers to the laurel branches in the FBI shield?
(http://i53.tinypic.com/15xrbec.gif)
Ohh dear God, I needed more than one brain to understand that the leaf pattern at the fake ambo pic was about the FBI shield. :lol:
-
Reading what TS has giving us has a huge clue it kinda reminded me of this...
[youtube:3basdzs1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N0Ogaskv88[/youtube:3basdzs1]
Could this be real? I believe of course he must have some kind of help from various agencies or maybe less than two. This is all one big puzzle (hoax) that piece by piece by piece...will come together.
(http://www.kristinaevey.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/puzzle_pieces.gif)
I always thought it was real, but probably isn't.
I was also thinking of it in the last days.
It is a good time now to review all that happened those days. Things are more clear.
-
Where does it say the number of pages in the FBI files?
FBI Delays Release of MJ Extortion Documents
12/21/2009 10:18 AM PST by TMZ Staff
(http://http://ll-media.tmz.com/2009/12/21/michael_jackson_getty_52105837_exd-1.jpg)
The FBI will not release Michael Jackson documents relating to the molestation investigations as well as extortion attempts -- at least not today.
The 333 pages of formerly-classified documents were supposed to be released today but the snow in Washington D.C. has caused a delay of at least one day.
As for what's in the documents ... sources tell TMZ during the 1993 Michael Jackson child molestation investigation, the late great Johnnie Cochran contacted the FBI, claiming the accuser's family was trying to extort money from Jackson with false allegations. It's likely Cochran's contact with the agency will show up when the documents are released.
-
That is interesting! That would explain why TS would focus on that seeming small detail of the leaves.
I just have some questions about all this. Anybody who has watched National Treasure or been on any conspiracy sites will know the whole foundation of the government of US, the National Reserve and powers running it, the CIA and relationship to Israel etc. is not necessarily benevolent. How could the FBI be somehow separate from this agenda of TPTB or Illuminati whatever, and the real good guys.
MJ has obviously been planned on hoaxing his death for many years as shown in his videos and lyrics, incorporating complex numerology. How could that now be passed over to the FBI as their creative genius. Or did MJ just offer his services to them and use them for his purposes without them knowing.
I still think if MJ was in real danger that his 3 children would also be in danger, yet they appear out in public and have appeared happy and okay with this situation.
If MJ really was in the witness program I don't think there would be any clues left for people believe he is alive. It would be clean. There are obviously many deliberate clues laid out like a trail of crumbs.
I'm having a hard time with this. :?
-
**Bangs head against wall** This proves even more that I really need a new brain. Does this mean that the leave pattern in the ambulance picture refers to the laurel branches in the FBI shield?
(http://i53.tinypic.com/15xrbec.gif)
Ohh dear God, I needed more than one brain to understand that the leaf pattern at the fake ambo pic was about the FBI shield. :lol:
Well, I said Peter Pan and I was close enough, because he wears green :lol: :lol: :lol:
-
imo on "THAT" day (not the other day mind you), real 911 call, real ambulance ,real paramedics, real patient just not MJ, but sick (dead??? remember the heating reported as set too high in the room being summer and all; trying to hide time of death???) and old looking, def not recognizable as our man, and our paramedics testified to this under oath in a real court of law. Problems; why no word from these paramedics as to why we CAN recognize MJ in the ambo pic? Imagine this all actually did go down as reported on june 25 2009, thats the thing that keeps me wondering ,how in hell did the paramedics NOT recognize MJ while we can on that pic ?? I suck at all things technical , but is there any evidence that MJ is shopped into that pic at all?
Because that could be an agreement between Bens agency and the paramedics and their station/boss that it was to portray MJ in the pic in the best possible way, to give him his dignity and not go out looking like a old ,bald hospice patient.
Maybe thats why no paramedics say anything bout the pic, if not bound by law, just maybe out of respect for their patient , who they actually believed to be MJ
Hi MJhunny,
I just wanted to tell you that, the words I have enlarged, your words, express the purest, kindest, most naturally sincere sentiment, in applying a motive to others, that I have heard here in MONTHs.
It blessed and caught me way off guard, to find that someone would apply kindness and consideration; a little HUMANITY, <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> to the same pix and the players involved with it, which all of us have been focused on technically, mechanically dissecting, pretty much...
Man <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> I can't tell you how sweet that is.
You thought of it, because it is what YOU would do. You must be very sweet. Bless you for sharing that Love!! <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
I agree, it is such very human and nice to think about this.
-
I need to think about that undercover thing. If he has been an undercover agent/informant, it would explain a lot, including the Joe-Joseph mystery on legal papers for example. And if this is the case, it hasn't been since June 25, but for years already.
Okay, I'm going to fry my brain over this again.
Michael to be an undercover agent for FBI?
OHHHHHH......I don't think so but we need proofs.....
What Michael has to do with public corruption issue except that public corruption affected his life when he was falsely accused? I don't see another link bewteen Michael and public corruption, at least not for the moment :?
-
MJ has obviously been planned on hoaxing his death for many years as shown in his videos and lyrics, incorporating complex numerology. ........
If MJ really was in the witness program I don't think there would be any clues left for people believe he is alive. It would be clean. There are obviously many deliberate clues laid out like a trail of crumbs.
I'm having a hard time with this. :?
We see them as clues. Others don't even think about them as clues. They think we are crazy.
I do believe there were people who wanted Michael DEAD. Who were they and what were there motives?
-
I need to give this FBI development/clue/hint from TS a huge amount of thought and consideration, as it's a theory I'll admit I've mostly bypassed up to now. Seeing this today has given me a strangely scary yet exciting feeling! Like a lot of loose ends might be about to be tied up in my brain!
-
Several people are generally on the right track, including this quoted comment here and the one before it {by MsTrinity333, viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=150#p312205 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=150#p312205)}. So I am now going to drop a huge clue. Actually, I thought someone would find this before now, especially with the timing clue that I gave when I posted the beginning of this thread (MsTrinity333 ).
Here is your big clue: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption)
Yes, Yes, Yes! I've been waiting for this and I realize it's a very delicate matter.
I even wrote similarly awhile back...
viewtopic.php?p=288688#p288688 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=288688#p288688)
Marlon didn't wear that FBI cap during the Jackson Dynasty show for nothing. Somebody was being given a message, I've always said.
I'm glad that this has come up at the time it is obviously meant to be shared. Timing is everything...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And, from the FBI website:
When Crisis Strikes
New FBI Technology is Ready to Help
CHECK OUT THE ORION SYMBOL HERE, It kind of reminds me of MJ's 'blue-eye' and we know who Orion is related to, right?
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2008/september/orion_092208
ORION allows the FBI and its partners to
coordinate crisis situations no matter how many
personnel are involved or where they are located.
On the morning of October 3, 2002, four people were murdered outside the nation’s capital. It was the start of a shooting spree in the region that resulted in 10 deaths and sparked a massive hunt for the killers.
The so-called Beltway snipers were caught three weeks later, but the challenges posed by the case—multiple shootings in different locations, several investigative command centers in different jurisdictions, tens of thousands of phone and e-mail tips streaming in (so many that at one point they had to be collected in boxes and driven to the primary command center every four hours), and difficulty sharing information with our law enforcement partners at lightning speed—underscored the fact that our crisis management software systems needed an upgrade, especially in the post-9/11 era.
Now we have such a tool, a next-generation system built from the ground up by our investigators and technology experts. We call it ORION—the Operational Response and Investigative Online Network.
ORION gives the FBI and its partners a real-time, online network to quickly and effectively coordinate efforts in crisis situations, no matter how many law enforcement personnel are involved…where they might be located…or how big the case.
So if an investigation expands from New York to Chicago to Miami, agents in every city could log into ORION and have instant access to every scrap of information on the case, says Supervisory Special Agent Mike McCoy, an investigator on the sniper case who helped design the system.
ORION also has new automated features. When a phone tip is entered into the system, ORION can actively process that raw data and “push” leads and intelligence to investigators. For example, if a phone tip is received in the L.A. office about a person in Boston who could be a suspect in a nationwide terrorism case, that information is entered into ORION, reviewed in L.A., and instantly routed electronically to Boston agents for action.
ORION also performs automatic searching of new information entered into the system to locate potentially matching persons, locations, vehicles, events, and organizations. These potential matches are shown to ORION users and help investigators “connect the dots” in a case where many FBI offices or law enforcement agencies are involved.
In addition to managing crisis events, ORION is designed for use at large, planned events such as the Super Bowl. In “watch mode,” ORION is capable of tracking potential threat information in its files such as names and vehicle identifications.
ORION is a classified system for Bureau use, but we’ve also designed an unclassified version for our law enforcement partners available through our secure Law Enforcement Online (LEO) network, so we can exchange information on FBI cases virtually instantaneously. State and local agencies can access ORION capabilities for their own critical cases.
ORION is managed by our Critical Incident Response Group, or CIRG, which responds at a moment’s notice to terrorist activities, hostage takings, child abductions, natural disasters and airplane crashes, and other high-risk crimes.
Since becoming operational, ORION has supported a number of investigations, including domestic terrorism and kidnapping cases. And it was used at both national political conventions this summer. Already, McCoy says, ORION is getting plenty of “real-world experience.” And making a difference.
-
@Souza Thanks :)
I don't get it. The leaves on the FBI logo were to do with the leaves on the ambo pic? So they weren't supposed to be a reflection?
-
Neverland has been restructured. That’s the use of cement they delivered there.
- The ambulance picture (as I already told) actually is two pictures overlapped and photoshopped.
- Larry King is partially informed.
- Michael left clues everywhere, the truth is in front of us, but we are unable to see it…
- 757, 756, 755 is coming on the same date. They don’t refer to the comeback date.
- In the song “Another day” Michel is speaking to us, it is another big clue.
- Michael is worried about the fans’ reaction on his return, but he has to do it sooner or later.
- That helicopter is not real as it seems. It was never registered.
- The infamous van never arrived with a body in, later it turned back to be a simple van. You just saw it getting into the Coroner’s office underground garage. No van, no corpse. It’s all gone.
- Several interviews that are being released lately are false.
- Joe is challenging the will so that we all understand that the will is fake, actually, and the children’s custody was to be temporary.
- Michael’s demise is not connected with Sony.
Michael did not change religion. He did not convert to Islam.
Internet is the only communications medium to make us understand he is still alive.
This is it dancers are involved in the hoax. You should read their interviews and read their statements.
Michael is in a protection program, it is true. He also enjoys great freedom, though, and co-operates to work out the whole situation.Journalists shouldn’t go in for the hoax. The fewer rumors going round, the better…
Auditions are not rehearsals, but they were both included in TII.
From April to June Michael has been very busy… getting ready for a safe escape plan.
Michael sees at the circulating news, he tries to cope with all this mess at his best. He is giving us as many clues as possible.
Joe said that there were doubles in the movie. He was right, this was the umpteenth clue.
“This is not it”… they’re too sure of what they are claiming.
Each piece of news, each interview hides a message from Michael, a clue…
I’ve earned full trust from my source… we have mutual acquaintances, that’s why this person trusts me.
The children were not threatened.
For the user michaelforeverinmyhear: you NEEDN’T believe me, just believe in what you think is right, no obligation from my part.
The serious danger has gone, but everybody should be very careful, especially right now.
viewtopic.php?f=253&t=4446&hilit=+witness+protection (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=253&t=4446&hilit=+witness+protection)
-
yes I remember this, it was someone who pretended to be an informer, BOW if I remember well. Other people said she was a fake. Is BOW still on that forum?
So many lies everywhere around.....it's hard to decide what to believe.
Back to the facts we have better than believe one person or another.
The FBI issue is somehow a logical conclusion that people reached without any help, only by putting things together and looking for answers.
Of course it still could be a freaking coincidence but yet, why FBI released those 333 pages, there had to be a reason......
-
I remembered BoW and being disappointed about MJ not being Dave Dave (why I thought fake), but the rest of info seemed to work. Thanks to the ones posting past thinking on the FBI thing. I'm just wondering whose in charge? Is MJ using the FBI for his purposes, or is the FBI using MJ for their purposes? I guess everything has to be rethought thru this now verified HOW of the hoax. I think I'm going to sleep on it.
SoldierofLove
Marlon didn't wear that FBI cap during the Jackson Dynasty show for nothing. Somebody was being given a message, I've always said.
Do you have a pic? That's good to represent this new level we reached, as TS said.
-
I remembered BoW and being disappointed about MJ not being Dave Dave (why I thought fake), but the rest of info seemed to work. Thanks to the ones posting past thinking on the FBI thing. I'm just wondering whose in charge? Is MJ using the FBI for his purposes, or is the FBI using MJ for their purposes? I guess everything has to be rethought thru this now verified HOW of the hoax. I think I'm going to sleep on it.
SoldierofLove
Marlon didn't wear that FBI cap during the Jackson Dynasty show for nothing. Somebody was being given a message, I've always said.
Do you have a pic? That's good to represent this new level we reached, as TS said.
hey, you can find it here Marlon FBI cap picture thread (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=6456&start=0)
-
I guess everything has to be rethought thru this now verified HOW of the hoax.
You think it is verified?
-
Thanks for that link again, 2good... I'd forgotten about it. Here are some of the other postings from the Italian site. I don't know what is what, but it sure gives you something to think about and connect the dots...
I am aware of many facts about the "death" of Michael Jackson a few months ago.
Obviously, as it is normal for the beginning I was very skeptical, I did not think I could trust that source, but slowly I began to realize that my source was telling the truth.
Beginning in December 2008 when a radio station launch the false news of the death of michael.... then readily denied by the singer himself..that was the beginning of the history, of the idea.
Michael had serious financial problems, which have brought him threats and now he had to do something to adjust everything.
So from January strange rumors began to flow about his health, Michael was unable to dance, sing and he was not good. He had skin cancer,he had a lung disease .... Far from the truth..
At the conference on 02 March in which he announced his shows ... THIS IS IT .... immediately after this, it has been revealed that Jackson would hold 50 concerts all at the 02 Arena in London.
.... the rehearsal, there would be no show .... it was all for THIS IS IT, all for the film, his gift for fans.
It's all for love, it's all for love, it also says the evidence, the documentary was for us.
And this was also said by Ortega on Twitter, it's only for fans.
The dancers are part of this plan, Ortega is part of this plan, many people help Michael.... even the press that is why we talk of the fake death only on the Internet, because the forum you can not control, but journalists have precise orders...they can not talk about this story.As I told you the reasons are very serious.
On June 25 we all know what happens but there are several background.
The call to 911 is false.
The photo on the stretcher is in fact real, but only the photo taken in the ambulance, Michael lying is another photo taken days before.
The photo was taken by a great friend of Michael, who had known him from 10 years.
The ambulance is false, Michael arrives at the hospital but then he released it alive and well, with the alarm Fire…the body in the helicopter is a body of UCLA; the university where you give to them the bodies for Research is involved in this story, but it don’t want to know much…the announcement of death was only given by Jermaine…The certificate of death is fake.
The coroner has never left official statements (there is no body).
Murray is involved but temporarily.
Many people in addition to the family and close friends have helped Michael to do everything.
At Forest Lawn, there is no grave.
The memorial and funeral have been organized by Michael.
Michael is now in LA.
Deathoax site was created for this and This is also it too.
Michael is back in LA for the children several times, but without attracting attention.
The whole truth will be best explained by himself and I hope that together we will discover when.
A return is expected, but it's Michael has to choose when..
I thank the moderators for letting me open this post, then we can explore together..
Thanks
Fragolina Velenosa Posted on 8/1/2010, 18:11
Mantenetevi Folli E Comportatevi Da Persone Normali...
Group: Super Moderatore
Posts: 1850
Location: Italy
Status:
From 12/15/09 to 12/20/09, 11:42 p.m. - user BlackorWhite
Translation by JustAnotherPartOfMe
-Michael visits his children on proper festivities. He will be with them for Christmas;
-At 02 Arena Michael was there. That was not an impersonator. But he was willing to raise “the attention of fans” and to be noticed (out of his difference! – editor’s note);
-Michael uses to check on the web with the help of his family and Hoax site;
-Michael might be back in 2010, maybe June, but any time may be good! Before his comeback Michael has to fix several things;
-The will is FAKE. It is a manoeuvre to protect the children during these months;
-MICHAEL IS OK, he is fine!
-He went to 02 Arena with his children. Navi was with him, but it was Michael who spoke to the fans;
-At Culver Studios there was a double, chosen by Michael, Kenny and Randy;
-The double draw much attention for TII Movie, purposedly;
-Culver Studios project had to be kept secret.
-BlackorWhite has been informed by her source in detail.
-Dave Dave at LKL was not Michael Jackson, but he was made-up in such a way as to be mistaken for Michael.
-People involved in the hoax are not so many, of course. They have promised to keep silent for a certain period of time.
-Karen Faye (Michael’s make-up artist) is Michael’s friend, unlike it may seem right now…she is playing a specific role throwing media off the track.
-She confirms that LA airport was partly closed on June 25th.
-There were doubles in TII (although only every now and then).
-Michael was not at the Memorial
-On Sept. 3rd, Michael was in LA, not at Forrest Lawn.
-The original Death Hoax site is cancelled, since members remarked that domain had been registered on June 1st and many people started to wonder why. It was allegedly sold, but it is run by the same admins, actually. It now redirects to Souza’s site.
-Many users on DH site are informed but do not post. TIAI is run by the same staff as DH. They work for Michael. Ortega is willing to help us, too.
-BlackorWhite was suggested to watch LAPD investigations.
-Dome Project was meant to be kept secret: we only saw short footage in the movie. There are seven videos:
Thriller
Earth Song
They don’t care about us
Ghosts
Mj air
Final message (heal the world)
Smooth criminal was in the movie (Gilda)
We saw Thriller only in short scenes
Ghosts in a new (awesome) version
-These videos are complete, they’re not unfinished at all and they will be released, they were completed after June 25th
-They used the same cameras at the funeral; all was directed by Kenny Ortega.
-The golden casket at Forrest Lawn is not the same as the one at the memorial
-There were two different caskets.
-No tomb is at the mausoleum, that is just a cover-up. This is why it is a “nameless grave”. No security staff, actually.
-No family member ever went to the mausoleum, not a single dry flower...
-Michael is supported by trustworthy friends and family.
-The funeral has been arranged in such a way as to look real. Many were there because they had gone to a funeral, others because they had promised Michael to be there.
-JCC and Applehead are VERY close to Michael.
-FL grave is empty.
-The children were aware of the truth since the beginning. Blanket was told that his father is on vacation.
-Paris didn’t cry at the Memorial … there were no tears, Janet covered hid her face in time. She would do anything for her dad.
-Hoax sites are supposed to give us clues to understand that Michael is alive, but also to spur our investigations to get to the truth.
:arrow: :arrow: -FBI is controlling the site. Some things cannot be posted.
-Michael never got on the coroner’s van. The making-of video shot by RTL German TV is a meaningful video explaining how to COUNTERFAIT a Coroner’s van.
:idea: :idea: :arrow: :arrow: -Hoax site posts many clues, that actually are diversionary manoeuvres to make us investigate and keep us far from the truth but, she repeats, only A FEW OF THEM are fake.
:arrow: :idea: :!: :arrow: -TIAI is a well-framed guide for us.
-Michael has planned the whole hoax because of his debts, now settled, but also out of severe threats; BlackorWhite reports she cannot speak about this.
:!: -Of course, the tribute had to be cancelled because it referred to his death: that would have been a fraud, since Michael is alive. It was cancelled twice. Michael doesn’t want to deceit his fans.
-Doubles were used in a few scenes of TII. Michael was busy, working at the Dome Project. Ortega directed doubles, he knew what to do.
-Michael wore the red shirt (the one with three 7). He wore a black tee-shirt, maybe you noticed that when dancing Billie Jean he only changed his shirt, keeping the black tee-shirt and the same trousers.
Don’t be mislead: Michael did not have so many hours of rehearsals at the Staple centre.
-Cassandra is a fake. She said Michael would be back in June, but June 25th will be important for something different.
-Now Michael is in LA with his children.
-Michael is not depressed: he is fine.
-The final part was recorded and prepared for the memorial.
-The pains instead of pain was changed on purpose: Will you be there is dedicated to the fans.
-Michael has arranged everything for the memorial: from the colour of flowers, to Latoya jewels…
-The infamous Hatman at the memorial is in Michael’s staff. You probably noticed a similar person at the funeral, with a bit darker complexion. That person spread confusion, the idea of him came from the memorial footage.
-BlackorWhite says that Michael will be back and news will be disclosed about the children in January.
:idea: :arrow: :arrow: -Michael had bought paintings by De La Nuez on purpose, to stir attention.
-BlackorWhite denies Michael’s diary being found and says Clontz and Cassandra are fake.
-The day of karate lesson a great mess was about to happen: Mike had been said that no paparazzi would be there, but unfortunately someone spilled the beans. Michael wanted to spend some time with the children and relax, being sure that the press wasn’t supposed to be there… instead…. Let’s say that he is still surrounded by money-hungry people.
-FBI files are to be released soon, related to 1993 and 2004 child molestation cases, as well as to any case Michael Jackson was the victim of, including threats and extortions. Nothing about dr. Murray or Michael’s death will be included in the files.
-Mike’s hoaxed death is not a fraud, he won’t be prosecuted on his return.
-The news reporting suicidal fans is fake.
-L.O.V.E. refers to Michael, TOY doesn’t.
-Mike is willing to return, but he needs our support and our love.
-In the video of children’s karate lesson Michael is there, not under the white umbrella.
-BlackorWhite found a way to give Michael our happy Christmas wishes.
:idea: :!: :D -The number of hoax-death forums is increasing in the last few months, Michael is unlikely to read everything on the web. On the original MJHD site he was a registered user, he read much and wrote little, very little.
-Mark Jackson is the webmaster of LA Country Coroner and works at the Coroner’s website.
-Getty Images took pictures at the Staples Memorial – :!: :!: Jackson owns the Getty agency, incorporated of AEG agency-
:!: :!: :arrow: :arrow: -Jackson invests in AP agency, a press agency, that works for newspapers and media.
-Jackson is in control of the news being released. Jackson is in control of the Coroner, too. This is why the Coroner’s chief refuses to sign death certificate, because the body did not match with M. Jackson’s medical files.
-BlackorWhite has posted pictures of real Michael and others of the double, who is very much alike for body build, dancing and voice.
-The impersonator has been selected very accurately, by Michael himself, Randy Phillips and Kenny Ortega.They couldn’t take the risk of choosing somebody who could be recognized as a double. They were looking for someone looking perfectly like Michael.Navi was asked to, but he refused the offer.
-BlackorWhite says she never spoke to Michael, but repeats that her source is very close to him.
Edited by Fragolina Velenosa - 9/1/2010, 14:29
Fragolina Velenosa Posted on 8/1/2010, 22:13
Mantenetevi Folli E Comportatevi Da Persone Normali...
Group: Super Moderatore
Posts: 1850
Location: Italy
Status:
from 12/20/09, 11:42 p.m. to 12/21/09, 9:47 p.m. - user BlackorWhite
- http://www.youtube.com/v/NfR7TTeMSDQ&hl=it_IT&fs=1& (http://www.youtube.com/v/NfR7TTeMSDQ&hl=it_IT&fs=1&) from 1:36 there is Michael. At the beginning with human nature is Michael too. But the guy with that gold jacket is a double.
-it is not playback. That is the boy's voice. The same voice, the same look, the same body..it is impossible to think that he is a double..this was the purpose.
-UCLA has refused to sign a certificate of death because the body was not Michael's body, but it was a body donated to research.Michael attended UCLA for years.
Autopsies have never been there.Earth Song is important for Michael .... we need to improve the our planet.
-when the investigations will terminate, this story will terminate.
-This is not it was created by fans that wanted fame.It is not absolutely true!Michael.Michael was and is absolutely fine!Ortega didn't help him to eat and he could very well walk alone!
-in most of the scenes in this is it you saw Michael as a protagonist.
At staples he rehearsed a couple of days,23 and 24 June .... these are the days used to create the documentary.
It is for this reason that Michael always wears the same clothes and the only thing that he changes is the shirt.
-the day of the road accident was the same day in which the children and Michael were in front of the gym (after the lesson of karate).
-Michael and Kenny chose the scenes together.
******************************************************************
Question: Mike was with the children on the day of the accident ... Kenny on his twitter what would meant? he just wanted to reassure us fans?
Answer: that day the plan was to fail....Michael were there...
Kenny wanted to reassure the fans,he likes to twitt..
*****************************************************************
-The 911 call was recorded weeks before.Pieces of that call have been put together.
That day there was a call, not published, of Alvarez, to demonstrate to the tabs that there was a call.
-Jermaine during the memorial was wearing earphones to talk with bodyguards and other people that helped the family.
-The will served to give to the children a trustee..Kathrine
-Michael arrived alive at the hospital and he left it alive.
-In the picture of Michael's arrive at the hospital..the situation was delicate, and certainly he could not sit up on the stretcher with all the paparazzi that were ready to take pictures.
Fragolina Velenosa Posted on 9/1/2010, 15:53
Mantenetevi Folli E Comportatevi Da Persone Normali...
Group: Super Moderatore
Posts: 1850
Location: Italy
Status:
from 12/21/2009, 9:56 p.m. to 12/22/2009, 10:55 p.m. - user BlackorWhite
-Michael arrived at the hospital by ambulance,the fire alarm tripped and he escaped to the vaults;There was a car waiting to go to the airport (in an area kept close for 2 hours;
-the phrase "always great sing with my brother/s" of the cd is referred to the brothers;"make believe" (in the cd too) is a new slogan of Sony;
:arrow: -LAPD and FBI are investigating...Murray is a story for astray;it takes time and Michael has a few things to solve; do not worry about that when he will return, the problem will be solved;
-Michael has not moved much.With the help of various organizations he could travel.A part of the airport has been closed for him.But then he remained in a fixed place when the situation was calm.Now I can tell you that he is in LA.
-
So how does the FBI fit with this?
by TS » Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:30 am
TIAI Revealed, Part 9: Today is 12-21-2009 (R49)
In this final part, we are going to be examining once again the “2012” film—especially as it relates to the concept of the end of the world on 12-21-2012, which is exactly three years from today. The “2012” movie story starts in the year 2009, and ends in 2012.
The “four years” that MJ mentioned in TII started in the spring of 2009 (when the “This Is It” concerts were in the planning stages); so we have already gone through the first year. You could also think of the four years as ending on 9-9-09, 10-10-10, 11-11-11, and 12-12-12 (ten day countdown to 12-21-12). Of course these are a little more than a year apart; but they are interesting numerology milestones in the four year process.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
“Can Ye Not Discern the Signs of the Times?”
Jesus said: “… ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?” (Matthew 16:3). Jesus also said: “… when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh [near], even at the doors. … Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.” (Mark 13:29-32).
So we don’t know the exact day or hour of the end of the world—maybe not even the exact year. But if we can “discern the signs of the times”, we should be able to know when it is near! The exact date of 12-21-2012 for the end of the world is fiction; it could happen on that date, but unlikely. However the end of the world being near is a very real concept, and not merely fiction. So let’s look at some of the “signs of the times”, which show that the end is near.
Speaking of fleeing at the end of time, Jesus said: “But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.” (Matthew 24:20,21). Did you know that 12-21-2012 will be the first day of winter (northern hemisphere)? And did you know that 12-21-2012 will be a Friday? And did you know that in the Bible, the Sabbath day begins at sunset on Friday?? Is it a coincidence, that both of the things which Jesus mentioned (winter and Sabbath) will begin on the same day that the Mayan calendar ends?
Again, this does not necessarily mean that the world will end on 12-21-2012; in fact, Jesus asked us to pray that we would not have to flee on that day. Nevertheless, the fact that all these things line up on the same day is almost certainly a clue (sign) that the end is near.
The NWO is another huge sign that the end is near. It was prophesied nearly 2,000 years ago in the book of Revelation; read the whole book, especially the last half—and most particularly Revelation chapters 17 & 18. Here are a couple verses: “These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them:” (17:13,14).
Also very well known, from the book of Revelation, is 666 and the mark of the beast (see Revelation 13 & 14). The mark is related to finances: “And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark …” (13:17).
Surely you know that USA has the largest economy in the world. But did you know that S&P 500 (not Dow) is “the most reliable measure of the broader market” {http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=7468215}? And did you know that the S&P 500 hit a low of 666 this year on 3-6-09 {http://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story.asp?StoryId=%7bD2687B35-8BC2-4AA9-A2D4-A004E3E15AF1%7d}; even the date is similar to 666 (subtract 3 from the last digit, and add it to the first digit). This was the bottom point in the worst US recession since the great depression; and in fact many people were calling it the verge of financial “Armageddon” (another end-of-the-world term from Revelation). What does this mean? Surely, it is another sign that the end is near.
Daniel 12:4 says that in “… the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.” Do we see that today? Travel on a major scale, the likes of which has never existed before in human history. And also there is increasing knowledge in many areas, never before known to man. In fact the internet, a major source of knowledge, has only come into normal household use in the last decade or two. Furthermore, the speed that we can now share information on the internet (through videos, pictures, etc) is something that we couldn’t do just a few years ago.
Another sign of the end is many natural disasters (see Matthew 24:7; Mark 13;8; Luke 21:11; etc). Did you know that earthquakes (along with other disasters) are on the increase? {http://earthquake.usgs.gov/}
As mentioned already (see R47), the Ark of the Covenant plays a major role near the end of time. Again, stayed tuned to TIAI for more info on the Ark; this will certainly happen well before 12-21-2012.
And what about the Mayan calendar ending on 12-21-2012, should we entirely dismiss this? Again, maybe nothing will happen on that exact day—perhaps not even in that year; but especially in light of all the other signs, it is pretty evident that the Mayans did not miss the end of the world by centuries, or even decades. Sometimes I think that the ancient civilizations had more true wisdom than modern man, with all his boasted technology and science.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
“The Son of Man Cometh at an Hour When Ye Think Not.”
“Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.” (Luke 12:40; see 12:46; Matthew 24:50). “… the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.” (1 Thessalonians 5:2,3; see Luke 17:26-30).
Different people have different concepts—even within Christianity—about the end of the world: when it will happen, how it will happen, etc. And other religions also have their concepts of the end of time. But most people in most religions are realizing that the world is on the verge of some major change; that is just too obvious to hide.
And for those who think that there will be at least seven more years before the end, be careful. Maybe there will be, but maybe not. Remember that the Jews—even Christ’s own disciples—thought that prophecy was yet to be fulfilled, before the Messiah would come; and yet the prophecy had already been fulfilled, and they didn’t recognize it (see Malachi 4:5; Matthew 17:10-13; etc).
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
“There Shall Come in the Last Days Scoffers”
“Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.” (2 Peter 3:3,4; see 3:5,6).
Scoffing is another major sign that the end is near. Just because there have been false alarms in the past, doesn’t mean that the real thing will never come. So don’t be too quick to join in with the scoffing attitude.
And don’t be over confident in what the media or scientists tell you (that it’s not the end of the world); often scientists are right, but they have also been wrong at times (see 1 Timothy 6:20).
Scientists were wrong in the days of Noah; they told everyone not to worry about any flood, because it had never rained before and “all things [would] continue as they were from the beginning of the creation” (see Genesis 2:5; 2 Peter 3:3-6). So of all the people in the antediluvian world: only eight refused to believe the scientists, and decided to get into the ark of safety.
Do you think that the flood is just a myth? Jesus took it literally, and used it as an example of how people would be at the end of the world: “And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.” (see Matthew 24:37-39; Hebrews 11:7; 1 Peter 3:20; 2 Peter 2:5; etc). Again, stay tuned to TIAI: and soon you will see abundant evidence that the flood of Noah literally happened—similar to the final scenes in the “2012” movie.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
This Is REALLY It!
The end of the world is near: whether you want it or not, whether you believe it or not, whether you’re ready or not—the end of the world is coming, soon and very soon! This is big; this is huge; this is colossal; in fact, it really doesn’t get any bigger than this!!! And once again, from the London press conference {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1znYaU0oeo&feature=PlayList&p=4337629E8ED55A02&index=4}: “This is it, I mean this is REALLY it; this is the final — this is the FINAL curtain call.”
-
I need to give this FBI development/clue/hint from TS a huge amount of thought and consideration, as it's a theory I'll admit I've mostly bypassed up to now. Seeing this today has given me a strangely scary yet exciting feeling! Like a lot of loose ends might be about to be tied up in my brain!
I take back my comment above about loose ends! Here I am a couple of hours later with more questions than answers!
Biggest question: who's working for who? MJ for FBI or FBI for MJ?
-
I need to give this FBI development/clue/hint from TS a huge amount of thought and consideration, as it's a theory I'll admit I've mostly bypassed up to now. Seeing this today has given me a strangely scary yet exciting feeling! Like a lot of loose ends might be about to be tied up in my brain!
I take back my comment above about loose ends! Here I am a couple of hours later with more questions than answers!
Biggest question: who's working for who? MJ for FBI or FBI for MJ?
[/b]
Does it have to be either/or? It could be both/and.
-
Also, is it possible that MJ has been working undercover to expose all the Dr Feelgoods??
That's why he went Dr shopping and has so many different drugs in alias names? That is a criminal offense to forge a pescription..Elvis did the same thing by working with the DEA..(drug enforcement agency) Remember MJ meeting with Elvis? He said Elvis told him straight out..."Don't do drugs" Seems like all the pieces are coming together now..
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEjjKIRv4yQ[/youtube]
-
Biggest question: who's working for who? MJ for FBI or FBI for MJ?
[/b]
Does it have to be either/or? It could be both/and.
True, you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours.
Ok, my next question: why is TS pointing out an FBI link? Wouldn't that be hush, hush?
-
The 333 pages are not a coincidence so there must be some key persons at the FBI involved and that's why people don't talk. TS redirected to a specific page http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption (http://www.fbi.gov/) ... certainly a clue as well.
-
Reading BOW again wasn't good, now I feel confused again.
I wish we'd follow a logical line, not being thrown off to one direction or another.
BOW also pointed to the FBI files and to a dead body that was used instead of Michael.
She also said (maybe not so) surprising things about this site. Talking about the ghosts in the walls :shock: who maybe are the result of too much fantasy IDK.....
From my own experience I know that when a person is very confident and free to take any decisions he/she wants, in spite of everything and everyone, that person has a very strong support from a source that stays in the shadow and dictates....... those who have eyes to see, ears to hear and the usual common-sense will know what I mean.
As about the end being near, when I saw what happened in Japan, those images that seemed to be taken from 2012 the movie, I was thinking that maybe we are near.....
-
Also, is it possible that MJ has been working undercover to expose all the Dr Feelgoods??
That's why he went Dr shopping and has so many different drugs in alias names? That is a criminal offense to forge a pescription..Elvis did the same thing by working with the DEA..(drug enforcement agency) Remember MJ meeting with Elvis? He said Elvis told him straight out..."Don't do drugs" Seems like all the pieces are coming together now..
Yes. This is what I've believed for quite some time too. Could be other undercover work as well - maybe involving trafficking of children... And, who knows, perhaps Elvis and MJ paid for the FBI high-technology system, Orion.
@curls: good questions you ask. But if we look at Elvis as a road map, his FBI activities became known to the public at some point... idk. perhaps it must be said to allow MJ's return and have it accepted by the public?
-
i am still wondering if and how the peter lopez thing plays into all of this.
-
@Souza Thanks :)
I don't get it. The leaves on the FBI logo were to do with the leaves on the ambo pic? So they weren't supposed to be a reflection?
@suspicious mind: oh, yes! good point. peter lopez...
@MJhasSpoken:
Could it be the reflection from a badge being worn by the medics or even MJ that looks like this:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2268/2172837721_fa50e0e4c4_z.jpg)
or these?:
(http://i25.tinypic.com/15clvz4.jpg)
(http://degreesearch.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/DEA-badge-YD.jpg)
-
My unanswered questions are:
1. Is Michael an secret agent himself?
2. Is the hoax/witness protection program going to expose the corruption during 1993/2005 case and trial?
3. If this is meant to expose the illuminati, and as we know, they rule the world, then who from the officials wants to expose them?
-
My unanswered questions are:
1. Is Michael an secret agent himself?
That'd be 'Agent M', right?! <!-- s:lol: -->:lol:<!-- s:lol: -->
[YouTube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6HGUNt6_hk[/YouTube]
-
Public corruption has everything to do with the charges in 2005.
Corruption in the judiciary is very serious and we see often in movies. If the FBI wants to stop this, nothing better than to join Michael to learn how this whole mess. I think I read somewhere about some lawsuits against Tom Sneddon but not sure.
My theory for the hoax was always protective of the FBI, which explains why even the false trial of Murray.
Regarding BOW I believed many times, because some information made sense, but now things are much stops at that forum.
-
@It´s her,
I understand your theory regarding the "fake" 2005 trial. Myself had that thought as well last year or earlier. MJ recreating the same scenario to prove legally that he was innocent and part of a scam when Chandler´s father accused him of child molestation, as it happened with the Arvizos; same goal-->$$ & destroy reputation.
I believe the trial was real, but I have my doubts if the characters were acting to some point. However, Michael had a fair trial as any American person is entitled to and was proclaimed innocent from all charges.
This was the real proof that MJ was always innocent, aquitted by a jury.
The tale of "MJ paid his innocence with Chandler´s case" was supossed to be burried forever, but still, some people, after the years, is not believing in Michael´s innocence and this I believe has been a big part for Michael to create his hoax death among other scenarios. To clean his name is very important, is the esscence to lave a clean legacy to his children.
@TS_comments,
I am a bit confused with the way you are ponting towards MJ hoaxing for a witness protection program. I read some of your updates and I understood that you wrote that there is no room for the witness protection program theory.
@Souza,
bay leaves have many symbolic interpretations during history. It could also point towards those symbolisms, but, how do we know that the "leaf pattern" being discussed are bay leaves on the 1st place?
@all,
The only conection I see between some police department and MJ are:
-LaToya: She is a police in Indiana.
-Murray: For some reason I think that he is more than a doctor.
-
Also, is it possible that MJ has been working undercover to expose all the Dr Feelgoods??
That's why he went Dr shopping and has so many different drugs in alias names? That is a criminal offense to forge a pescription..Elvis did the same thing by working with the DEA..(drug enforcement agency) Remember MJ meeting with Elvis? He said Elvis told him straight out..."Don't do drugs" Seems like all the pieces are coming together now..
Speaking of Elvis...Michael has 333 pages on his FBI file, Elvis has 663, or 330 more pages, many of which are dated after August 1977.
http://www.fbi.gov/foia/electronic-read ... is-presley (http://www.fbi.gov/foia/electronic-reading-room/elvis-presley)
Elvis was pronounced dead at 2:56 p.m., 30 minutes after Michael was. TS stressed the number thirty in TIAI Update 6.5. I just find that strange...
-
Also, is it possible that MJ has been working undercover to expose all the Dr Feelgoods??
That's why he went Dr shopping and has so many different drugs in alias names?
I remember having the same opnion in one of the updates!! To uncover the Hollywood dealers with a license!
-
That is interesting! That would explain why TS would focus on that seeming small detail of the leaves.
I just have some questions about all this. Anybody who has watched National Treasure or been on any conspiracy sites will know the whole foundation of the government of US, the National Reserve and powers running it, the CIA and relationship to Israel etc. is not necessarily benevolent. How could the FBI be somehow separate from this agenda of TPTB or Illuminati whatever, and the real good guys.
MJ has obviously been planned on hoaxing his death for many years as shown in his videos and lyrics, incorporating complex numerology. How could that now be passed over to the FBI as their creative genius. Or did MJ just offer his services to them and use them for his purposes without them knowing.
I still think if MJ was in real danger that his 3 children would also be in danger, yet they appear out in public and have appeared happy and okay with this situation.
If MJ really was in the witness program I don't think there would be any clues left for people believe he is alive. It would be clean. There are obviously many deliberate clues laid out like a trail of crumbs.
I'm having a hard time with this. :?
My thoughts on this is that possibly Michael has over the years developed a relationship with EX-FBI and other officials that were in the know of the corruption in the system its self. And maybe with their knowledge and inside ties, they could help Michael around all of the legalities, and to know how to officially pull this off.
It is kind of like in the last few years NASA ex officials and others in Gov. are coming out making statements of Extra Terrestrial contact that the Gov continues to cover up.
There are a lot of people that use to be on the inside that have left due to the corruption, but they still know their way around and how things work. I don’t think Michael’s goal is to bring anyone to justice, only to expose, so that we know who the real enemies are. Remember the bible says that even Satan can do things to appear as Jesus Christ…working great miracles and appearing as an Angel of light.
We need to know who these people are. All that is done in darkness will be brought to Light.
With this in mind, it would tie in with the “TIAI Revealed” layout that gives insight on Michael’s understanding of the end of the age or end times and the changes the earth is about to go through. I don’t think current powers in place have understanding or give a care about putting on the whole Armor of God and getting through what is coming. Also since the world is about to go through major changes I don’t think Michael’ s focus is on getting revenge or seeing justice played out because there is not enough time. I think a group of people wanted Michael gone, and some feared his influence on the world because it didn't fit their agenda. It was made to appear more like a money thing which a lot was, but more about numbers and power, remember there is power in numbers. And with Michael's massive influence, once he exposed these people ...well you can imagine how that would be.
I am sure as much as Michael studied the bible he knows that vengeance is the Lords and very soon they will get theirs if their hearts are not changed. He could have gone after Sneddon a long time ago if he chose to, but that was not his focus and never has been.
I believe there are people that work within these agencies that continue to stay in order to bring truth to the outside in some way. They want the corruption on the inside to be exposed to unsuspecting people that think the FBI and others, are for the good everywhere…….Just MHO
LOVE WILL CHANGE THE WORLD
-
Obviously i do not much of the program for the protection of witnesses in the United States, so little that i was, to the person is assigned a new identity, also could be to some of the family, if Michael is in such a program that does not block with " the return "
-
Wow TS. We really did need to go back to the start. A lot of info from way back had been left on the back burner and I did more than let it simmer, I let it boil dry. Today, I am wondering about evan chandler and why he suddenly felt compelled to blow his brains out after all that time of living the high life on MJ's money, or was he silenced by others? Something is way up with that . It is times like these, I am thankful of the archives of this site. I'm off to dig around in the past posts about malnic and the likes. :shock:
-
Well maybe that not the whole FBI agency is in on it, we often talked about key people in key places and when we think about the reasons for the hoax I hardly can imagine that the whole FBI is involved. Certainly a few good guys working there.
-
Wow TS. We really did need to go back to the start. A lot of info from way back had been left on the back burner and I did more than let it simmer, I let it boil dry. Today, I am wondering about evan chandler and why he suddenly felt compelled to blow his brains out after all that time of living the high life on MJ's money, or was he silenced by others? Something is way up with that . It is times like these, I am thankful of the archives of this site. I'm off to dig around in the past posts about malnic and the likes. :shock:
Maybe Chandler is also in a witness protection program and is helping MJ or FBI? People do change, you know.... :?
No, this is too far fetched.... *scratches her head* :|
However, this date "Remember, remember the 5'th of November" when Chandler died was too much of a coincidence... It might have been deliberately chosen for his "disappearance" from this earth....
-
Also, is it possible that MJ has been working undercover to expose all the Dr Feelgoods??
That's why he went Dr shopping and has so many different drugs in alias names?
I remember having the same opnion in one of the updates!! To uncover the Hollywood dealers with a license!
Yep! A secret agent! I told ya! :o
-
i am still wondering if and how the peter lopez thing plays into all of this.
Interesting that you mention Peter Lopez. I was just wondering the same thing last night. I still find it weird he died on the same day (April 30) that Michael was indicted and plead not guilty in 2004 for the molestation case. Same goes for Evan Chandler's November 5th suicide. Interesting they both died in the same way on significant dates.
-
I agree with most of It'sHer's theorie, re actor paramedics, staged 911 calls etc. With the addition of low enforcement involvement on some level. It is really the only thing explaining why the real ambulance 71 crew has not spoken up. Also, it ties in to the previously addressed code 71- meaning approved absence. If nothing was random, than the choice of # of ambulance was not, either.
Also, if there was no real 911 call, and there is no law enforcement involvement, I think actual authorites would have come forward. You can't pay off everyone. And- there are bigger lures than short-term gain. Meaning, notoriety for exposing the hoax.
To me, some degree of witness protection, similar program, or law enforcement involvement (remember, the chief of la police resigned shortly after June 09- at least I think that's who it was, or other high up police official) is the ONE thing that ties together the non-matching photos, the different version 911 calls, the real paramedics vs actors issue, and impunity. I always believed there was a threat to Michael's life- as did he according to several people. Maybe, he finally got the attention he deserved and things tied into his long-term plans.
It also helps explain changes in BAM timeline as well as trail date changes- if things are not purely up to Michael.
Several people are generally on the right track, including this quoted comment here and the one before it {by MsTrinity333, http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=150#p312205}. So I am now going to drop a huge clue. Actually, I thought someone would find this before now, especially with the timing clue that I gave when I posted the beginning of this thread (MsTrinity333 :o ).
Here is your big clue: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption
:shock: :shock: :shock:
OMG... I'm humbled by your response TS. You have been and will be in my prayers. God Bless You.
I have to snicker about you underlining the 333 part of my name. :lol: That's all God; not me. MsTrinity333 is my YT user name. Anyone who checks my channel will see it was picked before the FBI report was released; almost THREE mos prior... :lol: And before I beLIEved in the hoax. Got to love God's sense of humor at times. Three is my number, always has been...I was born in March. Happy Birthday to me! 8-) And what could be better than 3 three's when you're a Celt & Trinity is your name? :D I'm well aware of the Biblical ties too.
I'm so glad Im_convincedmjalive reposted one of your earlier updates.
I just saw that last night, my eyes hurt from reading it on my iphone while watching Tina Turner last night! That confirmed to me we are on the right track and reminded us of some important information we may have forgotten...
Why would a dummy need a hot room? & Jermain's slip up about the airport...?
For anyone interested here's kitty's channel where she and her friend had their conversations concerning their investigations. http://www.youtube.com/user/kittycat10100 I'm not sure if they are still posted but will ask her.
I had to laugh at someone mentioning Monster...
There are no coincidences:
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=191&t=17071
2010 Thriller. ;) <3
-
MJhunny wrote:
imo on "THAT" day (not the other day mind you), real 911 call, real ambulance ,real paramedics, real patient just not MJ, but sick (dead??? remember the heating reported as set too high in the room being summer and all; trying to hide time of death???) and old looking, def not recognizable as our man, and our paramedics testified to this under oath in a real court of law. Problems; why no word from these paramedics as to why we CAN recognize MJ in the ambo pic? Imagine this all actually did go down as reported on june 25 2009, thats the thing that keeps me wondering ,how in hell did the paramedics NOT recognize MJ while we can on that pic ?? I suck at all things technical , but is there any evidence that MJ is shopped into that pic at all? Because that could be an agreement between Bens agency and the paramedics and their station/boss that it was to portray MJ in the pic in the best possible way, to give him his dignity and not go out looking like a old ,bald hospice patient.Maybe thats why no paramedics say anything bout the pic, if not bound by law, just maybe out of respect for their patient , who they actually believed to be MJ.
with this we must conclude that MJ knew it was going to die on June 25, 2009 at a certain time?, so Ben was that day at home waiting for the "fatal outcome", I do not think so ;)
nope i meant MJ could have pulled the wool over Benjamins eyes too. :D
-
imo on "THAT" day (not the other day mind you), real 911 call, real ambulance ,real paramedics, real patient just not MJ, but sick (dead??? remember the heating reported as set too high in the room being summer and all; trying to hide time of death???) and old looking, def not recognizable as our man, and our paramedics testified to this under oath in a real court of law. Problems; why no word from these paramedics as to why we CAN recognize MJ in the ambo pic? Imagine this all actually did go down as reported on june 25 2009, thats the thing that keeps me wondering ,how in hell did the paramedics NOT recognize MJ while we can on that pic ?? I suck at all things technical , but is there any evidence that MJ is shopped into that pic at all?
Because that could be an agreement between Bens agency and the paramedics and their station/boss that it was to portray MJ in the pic in the best possible way, to give him his dignity and not go out looking like a old ,bald hospice patient.
Maybe thats why no paramedics say anything bout the pic, if not bound by law, just maybe out of respect for their patient , who they actually believed to be MJ
Hi MJhunny,
I just wanted to tell you that, the words I have enlarged, your words, express the purest, kindest, most naturally sincere sentiment, in applying a motive to others, that I have heard here in MONTHs.
It blessed and caught me way off guard, to find that someone would apply kindness and consideration; a little HUMANITY, <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> to the same pix and the players involved with it, which all of us have been focused on technically, mechanically dissecting, pretty much...
Man <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> I can't tell you how sweet that is.
You thought of it, because it is what YOU would do. You must be very sweet. Bless you for sharing that Love!! <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
I would absolutely do this for MJ or anyone else for that matter. <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
-
Do you remember this on the 3rd September 2010, one year after the burial?
No coincidence
See post
viewtopic.php?f=135&t=13924 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=135&t=13924)
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/se ... eral-scams (http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/september/funeral-scams/financial-fraud-and-funeral-scams)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/fbi.jpg)
-
Please don't bash me, cos I don't post often at all, though I read sooo much on here.
I've been reading this thread from the start and I don't know why but the question suddenly came to me the other day about whether there were any photos taken of the ambulance(s) actually arriving at Michael's house?
I am really sorry if this has been discussed - I do try and keep up with everything all you amazing "detectives" are doing, but I could have missed this.
I have gained the impression that there was always "someone" outside the gates of his house, and if so, why are the only photos we see of vehicles already inside the property boundaries, or leaving to go to the hospital - did no-one think it important enough to photograph an ambulance actually arriving at his house - or was no-one there?
If this has been discussed and dispensed with I am sorry for bringing it up again - I'm not very good at all this :(
Sue
-
Please don't bash me, cos I don't post often at all, though I read sooo much on here.
I've been reading this thread from the start and I don't know why but the question suddenly came to me the other day about whether there were any photos taken of the ambulance(s) actually arriving at Michael's house?
(...)
If this has been discussed and dispensed with I am sorry for bringing it up again - I'm not very good at all this :(
Sue
As far as I remember, there has never been anything like that proved on any forum.
Welcome to the Hoaxland, SUE.
I have a question:
Souza, are you an FBI agent, too? :lol:
-
finfin wrote:
Do you remember this on the 3rd September 2010, one year after the burial?
No coincidence
See post
viewtopic.php?f=135&t=13924
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/se (http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/se) ... eral-scams
If i remember this, here is explained very well how to organize a death and a funeral false, death certificate false,funeral with actors paid, 8-) funeral home and morgue involved, and of course the purchase of place in the cemetery :lol:
-
The leaf-pattern fits more on this logo...
(http://pkdojo.com/Images/pc_logo.gif)
-
i'm having a hard time with some things
if FBI are involved and MJ's in WPP then why a)have Murray in the mix at all
b) leave clues, would the FBI agree to this?
c) would the FBI bother with numerology, or let
MJ bother with it?
-
Just the fact that the ambulance had trouble leaving the property is enough for me to doubt that it was a real ambulance in a real emergency situation. I'm sure Ambulance drivers aren't permitted to drive at high speeds weaving in traffic, as they do, without superior driving skills to other drivers - their training must be rigorous. The guy backing out seems to take too long and needs too much assistance for a real driver who knows his vehicle. Why did he go in there frontways without checking how hard it was going to be to get out? I need to find the aerial view of the house to check this - I know I've seen it on this site somewhere - but isn't their a circular drive?
Also - why was the fire engine there? Station 71 knew from the 911 call that the emergency was medical not a fire or rescue. Is that normal practice? It seems a waste of resources, but I suppose those guys made themselves useful, by setting out the witches hats that stopped traffic in the street and by guiding the ambulance through the gates.
I believe that whatever Ben filmed that day could not have involved real paramedics believing it to be a real emergency (and anyone who has carefully watched that video would understand why). I think the fire truck was needed to prevent vehicles into the area and so the ambulance had to back out to explain why the whole raod need to be cut from traffic. So I believe the whole thing was staged including the timing of the tour bus.
Fire trucks are sent because they carry more personnel and paramedics that are helpful on calls such as codes. Much easier to have a bunch of hands than 4.
can someone answer if the hospital was notified ahead of time that this person was enroute where would the hospital staff be at the time of arrival? waiting further inside or directly at the door?
Yes. Hospitals are notified in advance. The MDs and nurses would be inside the hospital waiting for the patient. Doctors or nurses do not meet ambulances outside.
You sure it is not against the HIPPA law? Btw: I have a background in medical coding and billing. I have worked for a private Dr.'s office and I have worked for a health insurance company processing claims and customer service. I legally could not say (outside of the realm of my job) I didn't work on so and so claim.
Only exception to that would be if I was given certain privilege to speak on it.
It's not against the HIPPA law for a paramedic to say that is not him (self, the paramedic "it's not me") appearing as a subject in a famous photograph of the victim of a high profile manslaughter case.
I don't buy it... that the authenticity would never be questioned if real paramedics (not in on it) were involved on 6/25/09.
I'm sticking to common sense dictating that the paramedics were actors, both that day and the other day-- even if that means the LAFD (or at least one) were working as actors at one point.
Protected health information (PHI), under the US Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA), is any information about health status, provision of health care, or payment for health care that can be linked to a specific individual. This is interpreted rather broadly and includes any part of a patient’s medical record or payment history.
The paramedics are providing the patient health care therefore they become part of the privacy issue. They also become part of the patient's medical record.
official story, have often given one or more of the following reasons against the hoax: there would be way too many people “in on it” (so surely someone would’ve let the cat out of the bag by now); or, many of the things that have happened would be illegal, if it was a hoax; or, the government would not be in on a plan to expose corruption in the government, etc.
It's actually HIPAA, not HIPPA (common mispelling, btw), and Bec is correct. Saying the ambulance photo is or is not them is not a violation of HIPAA.
-
Please don't bash me, cos I don't post often at all, though I read sooo much on here.
I've been reading this thread from the start and I don't know why but the question suddenly came to me the other day about whether there were any photos taken of the ambulance(s) actually arriving at Michael's house?
I am really sorry if this has been discussed - I do try and keep up with everything all you amazing "detectives" are doing, but I could have missed this.
I have gained the impression that there was always "someone" outside the gates of his house, and if so, why are the only photos we see of vehicles already inside the property boundaries, or leaving to go to the hospital - did no-one think it important enough to photograph an ambulance actually arriving at his house - or was no-one there?
If this has been discussed and dispensed with I am sorry for bringing it up again - I'm not very good at all this :(
Sue
Hey Sue :)
I am so glad you brought up the ambulance arriving. In my very first post, I asked the same thing. It's odd......Ben said something like...."...this was Michael's house, there were always people around....."
Yet, nobody has uploaded a thing for the arrival of the ambulance? If it shows up now, I am going to really think someone is watching/reading here, lol! Here is a link to that first post of mine. Blessings to you Sue! Have a great day!
viewtopic.php?f=253&t=10672 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=253&t=10672)
Blessings Always!
-
If there is accuracy to BoW's posts it would confirm my long held thoughts on the existence of the original and this forum. It's the only logical conclusion. That's why I respect those in charge here so much.
Its Her, I think I know where you were going with your posts on the 2005 trial. For a long time now I have had many questions of things that didn't add up in the conventional stories. Thinking in terms of the FBI involvement makes many things possible. On a grander scale I still am amazed at the global focus on this single human being, and ripples of influence and involvement. I stand in awe... and I love Michael from the bottom of my heart.
Could it be the FBI and powerful individuals are helping him pull off "The Greatest Show on EArth"? He needs their authority and protection, but most importantly he has God's.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlpTFa-wGc4&feature=related[/youtube]
-
I was thinking about the time of "death", wich had to be exactly at 2:26 to fit the hoax numerology. Therefore someone at the UCLA medical center must have been "in on it"?? Don't know if it has been talked about. Who pronounced the time of death?
-
Ok soooo...are the paramedics actually undercover FBI agents who helped Michael escape, either that day or the other day??
-
Do you remember this on the 3rd September 2010, one year after the burial?
No coincidence
See post
viewtopic.php?f=135&t=13924 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=135&t=13924)
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/se ... eral-scams (http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/september/funeral-scams/financial-fraud-and-funeral-scams)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/fbi.jpg)
You beat me :lol: I was just thinking about this, and came on the forum to search for it, so thanks saved me a job :lol: :P
So we seem to be back at the beginning, maybe things will make more sence this time around.
Blessings to all ;)
-
again, if FBI are involved then what gives with all the numerology ,like time of 911 call, time of death etc; Would they(FBI) bother with that or would they let MJ bother with that??This still does'nt make sense...
-
So I guess the colour theme all along was for a different reason....red yellow and blue. Hell, even Murray joined in.
The mission red shirt, with three 7's, was that a clue to let us know "Agent 007" was on a mission ??? :D
-
i'm having a hard time with some things
if FBI are involved and MJ's in WPP then why a)have Murray in the mix at all
b) leave clues, would the FBI agree to this?
c) would the FBI bother with numerology, or let
MJ bother with it?
I never said WPP, others are saying that though. FBI is involved with much more than just WPP.
The Elvis parallels here are also interesting and informative. Elvis had governement help, and he did leave clues including numerology. But he decided not to go into WPP, because it would mean NO more contact with family or friends. Here is a little on that: http://www.lindahoodsigmontruth.com/page40
As far as the numerology, I will discuss that further in another comment reply soon.
-
Soosie Woosie
In the Hollywood video you see that ,an ambulance, just rides behind the gate and the gate gets closed. It starts at 1.42. At the picture the Emt takes the roadblocks to put them on the street. The touristbus is not the same one as in the Starline tourist video.
(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/65/ambu33.jpg) (http://http)
-
Thank you TS. WPP was making me feel uneasy all day. WPP would mean we would never see Michael again. Involvement with the FBI could mean a number of situations at hand. Thank you for answering before I asked....Take care, Love to You
-
i'm having a hard time with some things
if FBI are involved and MJ's in WPP then why a)have Murray in the mix at all
b) leave clues, would the FBI agree to this?
c) would the FBI bother with numerology, or let
MJ bother with it?
I never said WPP, others are saying that though. FBI is involved with much more than just WPP.
The Elvis parallels here are also interesting and informative. Elvis had governement help, and he did leave clues including numerology. But he decided not to go into WPP, because it would mean NO more contact with family or friends. Here is a little on that: http://www.lindahoodsigmontruth.com/page40
As far as the numerology, I will discuss that further in another comment reply soon.
I have a question. I also always thought that FBI is involved, but what I also think is that some other forms of government are involved. Is that true? Is the government involved?
-
Also, is it possible that MJ has been working undercover to expose all the Dr Feelgoods??
That's why he went Dr shopping and has so many different drugs in alias names? That is a criminal offense to forge a pescription..Elvis did the same thing by working with the DEA..(drug enforcement agency) Remember MJ meeting with Elvis? He said Elvis told him straight out..."Don't do drugs" Seems like all the pieces are coming together now..
Speaking of Elvis...Michael has 333 pages on his FBI file, Elvis has 663, or 330 more pages, many of which are dated after August 1977.
http://www.fbi.gov/foia/electronic-read ... is-presley (http://www.fbi.gov/foia/electronic-reading-room/elvis-presley)
Elvis was pronounced dead at 2:56 p.m., 30 minutes after Michael was. TS stressed the number thirty in TIAI Update 6.5. I just find that strange...
More interesting Elvis stuff:
"In December 1970, Elvis was inducted into the Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) by President Nixon. Elvis had just been awarded one of America's Ten Outstanding Young Men for his efforts to wipe out drugs. Elvis went undercover for the DEA and helped put one of America's largest crime rings behind bars. This particular undercover operation was coded 'Operation Fountain Pen'. Was Elvis really addicted to drugs..., or was he the ultimate actor after all? The U.S. Department of Justice's Federal Bureau of Investigation in Washington confirmed in a letter to Maria Columbus, president of The Elvis Special fan club, that Presley visited FBI headquarters on December 31, 1970 and was given a tour of FBI facilities. Two months prior to meeting with President Nixon, Elvis was presented with a CNOA Membership Certificate that reads: This is to certify that Elvis A. Presley is a member in good standing of the California Narcotics Officers Association. Once when Elvis was on stage, he wanted to prove to the audience that he was not strung out on drugs like everyone said he was. He then displayed a certificate to the audience and said, "This is from the International Narcotics Enforcement Association. This Certificate gives me special honors and a lifelong membership. I've been wearing a federal narcotics badge for six years. They don't give you that if you're strung out." One of the fan letters states that several police uniforms were delivered to Graceland on August 15, 1977"
From: http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/fo ... opic=26943 (http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=26943)
Wow. :shock:
-
Thanks TS, so that also explains Lisa Maries comment...."MJ was afraid he would end up like Elvis"....Wow.
Michael had a passionate motive after the death of his best friend and icon "James Brown" in the hands of dr feelgoods...including Dr Conrad Murray...
That's why they used the same casket, to drop us some hints.
That's why the family continue to spread the fact that MJ WAS a drug addict and feared for his life.....
It all makes alot more sense even though most of us had that figured from the start.
FBI are involved because he had many death threats, especially from the mafia and Thomne Thomne and the NOI ???? Am I on the right track ???
On December 21, 1970, Elvis Presley paid a visit to President Richard M. Nixon at the White House in Washington, D.C. The meeting was initiated by Presley, who wrote Nixon a six-page letter requesting a visit with the President and suggesting that he be made a "Federal Agent-at-Large" in the Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs. The events leading up to and after the meeting are detailed in the documentation and photographs included here, which include Presley's handwritten letter, memoranda from Nixon staff and aides, and the thank-you note from Nixon for the gifts (including a Colt 45 pistol and family photos) that Presley brought with him to the Oval Office.
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/nsa/elvis/elnix.html (http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/nsa/elvis/elnix.html)
-
http://www.kcrw.com/etc/programs/tb/tb1 ... al_entoura (http://www.kcrw.com/etc/programs/tb/tb100628the_original_entoura)
-
http://www.kcrw.com/etc/programs/tb/tb100628the_original_entoura
huh . we have vernon , charlie hodge , and i think i see larry geller and there is the famous dr. nick.
but no joe espesito as near as i can tell. thought joe was pretty close to him. strange set up to me.
-
Do you remember this on the 3rd September 2010, one year after the burial?
No coincidence
See post
viewtopic.php?f=135&t=13924 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=135&t=13924)
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/se ... eral-scams (http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/september/funeral-scams/financial-fraud-and-funeral-scams)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/fbi.jpg)
If you look at the cemetary picture on that webpage, it looks EXACTLY like the cemetary used as the background for the Thriller videos they shot for TII....just, ya know, during the day.
-
Well maybe that not the whole FBI agency is in on it, we often talked about key people in key places and when we think about the reasons for the hoax I hardly can imagine that the whole FBI is involved. Certainly a few good guys working there.
Agree with you Sarahli. People talk about if the courts of Murray was fake or not. I do believe that there're key people everywhere who are aware of the hoax. Not everyone should know about it. Not the entire DA, FBI, or the courts know about the hoax. To keep as less people as they could is the best for the sake of the hoax. So I do not think the entire FBI knows about Michael being an agent or knows about the hoax.
-
WOW WOW WOW WOW
I have tears in my eyes because it feels like we are onto something here. I feel more and more hurt for Michael as this goes on. The more I research and find the more I feel pain for what he lived with.
This is just unreal to think that maybe Elvis wasn't a drug addict, but instead, working to GET the "drug lords". Then to think, our Michael, the same thing!!
I remember Michael with Pres. Reagan and being so proud of him going us as an example against drugs...alcohol...and now I see Elvis with Pres. Nixon...same thing??? I am blown away. I just cannot believe that these two men, stood up with two presidents against drugs, then DIED of drug overdoses!!!
NO! I will never believe that.
I want to thank every one of you friends who also are taking so much time and love researching all this. You know I've been wondering about the WHY'S of the need for us to do all the researching and not just believe and wait, and NOW I see.
Now I see.
-
i'm having a hard time with some things
if FBI are involved and MJ's in WPP then why a)have Murray in the mix at all
b) leave clues, would the FBI agree to this?
c) would the FBI bother with numerology, or let
MJ bother with it?
I never said WPP, others are saying that though. FBI is involved with much more than just WPP.
The Elvis parallels here are also interesting and informative. Elvis had governement help, and he did leave clues including numerology. But he decided not to go into WPP, because it would mean NO more contact with family or friends. Here is a little on that: http://www.lindahoodsigmontruth.com/page40
As far as the numerology, I will discuss that further in another comment reply soon.
Thank you TS for giving the information about WPP and people who goes into WPP can not contact with family or friends. Now it makes me wonder if Michael got into WPP or not. If he is in to WPP, that could explain the tears of Katherine at the funeral and at some interviews. They can not see Michael and that is such a hard situation that they cry because of that, not because of his "death". I also remember some of Michael's friends talk about him how they miss their friend. So we have two opitons. 1-Michael planned everything for such a long time ago and gave all the directions to those key people to give out the clues that Michael planned long ago and then he got into WPP and left. 2-He is working with FBI but didn't get into WPP but still for his safety he doesn't see his family and friends so often. I'll go with number two.
-
I agree with most of It'sHer's theorie, re actor paramedics, staged 911 calls etc. With the addition of low enforcement involvement on some level. It is really the only thing explaining why the real ambulance 71 crew has not spoken up. Also, it ties in to the previously addressed code 71- meaning approved absence. If nothing was random, than the choice of # of ambulance was not, either.
Also, if there was no real 911 call, and there is no law enforcement involvement, I think actual authorites would have come forward. You can't pay off everyone. And- there are bigger lures than short-term gain. Meaning, notoriety for exposing the hoax.
To me, some degree of witness protection, similar program, or law enforcement involvement (remember, the chief of la police resigned shortly after June 09- at least I think that's who it was, or other high up police official) is the ONE thing that ties together the non-matching photos, the different version 911 calls, the real paramedics vs actors issue, and impunity. I always believed there was a threat to Michael's life- as did he according to several people. Maybe, he finally got the attention he deserved and things tied into his long-term plans.
It also helps explain changes in BAM timeline as well as trail date changes- if things are not purely up to Michael.
Several people are generally on the right track, including this quoted comment here and the one before it {by MsTrinity333, http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=150#p312205}. So I am now going to drop a huge clue. Actually, I thought someone would find this before now, especially with the timing clue that I gave when I posted the beginning of this thread (MsTrinity333 :o ).
Here is your big clue: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption
Oh, wow- I was not able to come on and check much this weekend- come back to see what I missed and find my post. I am SO THRILLED- and humbled- thanks, TS.
Now, interesting that you mention that WPP is not the only thing the FBI is involved in. I have been thinking for a while: the two things people connect to Michael (beyond music) are drugs and children. If you add the FBI factor- those elements all tie to sexual exploitation of children and or pornography (usually drugs are involved). Now, this might come out of left field, but bear with me for a moment: Think of one of the themes that seems to stick out in recent songs- the corruption of Hollywood and how young girls (in those cases, but boys are affected as well) are exploited. You find this in Hollywood Tonight and Do you Know Where Your Children Are. In Hollywood Tonight, you have a line in the text book after “she’s taught that that’s not clean”- that says something like “she’s only 16” (or was it 15- once again too lazy to go check). Some motto in DYKWYCA- the girl in that song is 12.
Michael having been accused of the heinous acts against children might have awoken or strengthened his disgust at what was going on. Young children/ teens being exploited is an open secret in Hollywood and you better believe he knew what was going on, having been a child in Hollywood himself and probably having seen much. Due to his insider status- he might have been able to open doors regular FBI informants could not get through.
Of course, this then, ties to the top of the Entertainment Industry and would have made him many enemies (if word or even suspicion) got out. Hence- the drive to destroy him (and the money to be made on the side was certainly a bonus).
So, just like Elvis the “druggy” might have worked for law enforcement to combat drug trafficking, Michael, the accused child molester might have worked behind the scenes to expose people involved in sexual exploitation of minors in the “industry.”
How does the hoax/ numerology tie in? Well, he had the idea obviously for a long time. And if he knew he was in danger on several fronts, he then combined the hoax agenda with the FBI activities (whatever they are).
Someone earlier asked how the FBI ties in with the “end of the world”- well, it has been mentioned numerous times that the 333 pages were released o 12/21 (2009)- which of course is also time of the 911 call. So, was it FBI to the rescue?
-
I was thinking about the time of "death", wich had to be exactly at 2:26 to fit the hoax numerology. Therefore someone at the UCLA medical center must have been "in on it"?? Don't know if it has been talked about. Who pronounced the time of death?
As far as I remember, it was Jermaine who announced the time of death.
-
Do you remember this on the 3rd September 2010, one year after the burial?
No coincidence
See post
viewtopic.php?f=135&t=13924 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=135&t=13924)
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/se ... eral-scams (http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/september/funeral-scams/financial-fraud-and-funeral-scams)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/fbi.jpg)
If you look at the cemetary picture on that webpage, it looks EXACTLY like the cemetary used as the background for the Thriller videos they shot for TII....just, ya know, during the day.
I knew there was something familiar about that picture n i just couldnt put my finger on it! :shock:
-
I agree with most of It'sHer's theorie, re actor paramedics, staged 911 calls etc. With the addition of low enforcement involvement on some level. It is really the only thing explaining why the real ambulance 71 crew has not spoken up. Also, it ties in to the previously addressed code 71- meaning approved absence. If nothing was random, than the choice of # of ambulance was not, either.
Also, if there was no real 911 call, and there is no law enforcement involvement, I think actual authorites would have come forward. You can't pay off everyone. And- there are bigger lures than short-term gain. Meaning, notoriety for exposing the hoax.
To me, some degree of witness protection, similar program, or law enforcement involvement (remember, the chief of la police resigned shortly after June 09- at least I think that's who it was, or other high up police official) is the ONE thing that ties together the non-matching photos, the different version 911 calls, the real paramedics vs actors issue, and impunity. I always believed there was a threat to Michael's life- as did he according to several people. Maybe, he finally got the attention he deserved and things tied into his long-term plans.
It also helps explain changes in BAM timeline as well as trail date changes- if things are not purely up to Michael.
Several people are generally on the right track, including this quoted comment here and the one before it {by MsTrinity333, http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=150#p312205}. So I am now going to drop a huge clue. Actually, I thought someone would find this before now, especially with the timing clue that I gave when I posted the beginning of this thread (MsTrinity333 :o ).
Here is your big clue: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption
Oh, wow- I was not able to come on and check much this weekend- come back to see what I missed and find my post. I am SO THRILLED- and humbled- thanks, TS.
Now, interesting that you mention that WPP is not the only thing the FBI is involved in. I have been thinking for a while: the two things people connect to Michael (beyond music) are drugs and children. If you add the FBI factor- those elements all tie to sexual exploitation of children and or pornography (usually drugs are involved). Now, this might come out of left field, but bear with me for a moment: Think of one of the themes that seems to stick out in recent songs- the corruption of Hollywood and how young girls (in those cases, but boys are affected as well) are exploited. You find this in Hollywood Tonight and Do you Know Where Your Children Are. In Hollywood Tonight, you have a line in the text book after “she’s taught that that’s not clean”- that says something like “she’s only 16” (or was it 15- once again too lazy to go check). Some motto in DYKWYCA- the girl in that song is 12.
Michael having been accused of the heinous acts against children might have awoken or strengthened his disgust at what was going on. Young children/ teens being exploited is an open secret in Hollywood and you better believe he knew what was going on, having been a child in Hollywood himself and probably having seen much. Due to his insider status- he might have been able to open doors regular FBI informants could not get through.
Of course, this then, ties to the top of the Entertainment Industry and would have made him many enemies (if word or even suspicion) got out. Hence- the drive to destroy him (and the money to be made on the side was certainly a bonus).
So, just like Elvis the “druggy” might have worked for law enforcement to combat drug trafficking, Michael, the accused child molester might have worked behind the scenes to expose people involved in sexual exploitation of minors in the “industry.”
How does the hoax/ numerology tie in? Well, he had the idea obviously for a long time. And if he knew he was in danger on several fronts, he then combined the hoax agenda with the FBI activities (whatever they are).
Someone earlier asked how the FBI ties in with the “end of the world”- well, it has been mentioned numerous times that the 333 pages were released o 12/21 (2009)- which of course is also time of the 911 call. So, was it FBI to the rescue?
Great post. Great thinking and reasoning. Can you tie in the "we have 4 years"? (is that right?)
-
I have had this picture saved to my computer for 16 mths....
Also, the pictures of Liberian Girl at the funeral & memorial possibly suggested MJ was in Liberia, Africa. Joe Jackson always wore his African necklace. Liberia a Long Way From Winning War on Drugs.....there is a major drug and drug trafficking problem there........
Liberia's Drug Enforcement Agency says it lacks the financial and logistical support to adequately crack down on illegal drug trafficking. Agency officials say the country's weak drug laws are compounding the problem.
According to Liberia's Drug Enforcement Agency, law enforcement officials lack the man power, money and laws to deter drug trafficking.
Colonel James Jaddah is the executive director of the agency. He says there is a need for better logistics within his organization. "Right now we are operating with only five vehicles, all assigned to headquarters,” Jaddah said. “In the other 15 counties we don't have the capacity to purchase vehicles, so this has been hindering our progress when it comes to operational activities."He says the DEA also lacks adequate financial support, from the government and from the international community.Jaddah says Liberia's weak drug laws present another serious problem. He says drug dealers are more typically fined than jailed, with the average penalty costing a dealer about $50. "We go out there and we make all the arrests,” he added. “The suspect [is] taken to court, the suspect is being given a cash bill, and as soon as the cash bill is paid, that person is out on the street doing the same thing that they were doing before. The penalty is very weak, it's nothing compared to other countries."Jaddah says a bill based on Nigeria's tougher drug laws was drafted and introduced to Liberia's Legislature. The lower house approved the bill, but it has since stalled in the upper house. Although marijuana is locally produced, Jaddah says it is mostly foreigners who bring harder controlled substances like cocaine and heroin into Liberia.Lamin Kollie, 28, a drug user, said he first began taking cocaine during Liberia's civil war years. "I'm taking cocaine. I've been taking this for more than two years. I can't do without it,” said Kollie. “I've been arrested on many occasions, but I manage to escape."Kollie said if the government would provide jobs, he would stop doing drugs.Jaddah says Liberian youths who are expected to one day lead the country are falling victim to drug habits. He says more has to be done to prevent drugs from ruining the younger generation.
<!-- m -->http://www.somalipress.com/news/2011-ja ... drugs.html (http://www.somalipress.com/news/2011-jan-07/liberia-long-way-winning-war-drugs.html)<!-- m -->
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WMpy0HEGVA[/youtube]
-
Great post. Great thinking and reasoning. Can you tie in the "we have 4 years"? (is that right?)
Hm.. Well, I think Jehova Witness teaching still influenced Michael's spirituality very much (no matter what his non-religious activties were). According to their teachings, the end of the world does not mean destruction, but deliverance from those who are evil (and I know this because my husband started to have Bible Study every week with a Jehova's Witness). In that- helping uncover corruption that endangers children on the micro level and (as pointed out by TS can reach up so high it endagners our national security) would fit in with - having 4 years to get it right. That part, of course, again, was influenced my Michael's religious views. Now, I know that the JW do not pick 2012- but Michael might have seen this as the dates he had in mind. Or maybe, 12-21-12 is more of a symblic date (signifying the end) which was then tied in in a more concrete manner into the clues of TII and the hoax. The four years, using inclusive reckoning, would extend from 2009 until 2012 (counting 2009 as year one- and 2012 as year 4)- as previously discussed.
Anyway- this is just one theorie (as in hyothesis, not as in proven theorie) that's been swirling around in my mind.
Maybe, to be thorough, we should also look at why the FBI CANNOT be involved- to make sure we have a solid case for involvment. I already stated that I think they are. For arguments sake, I am not that great at numerology, so I would need some solid proof to show how it ties in (beyond the 33, the 12-21 release date of the file)- I can see that one could argue, FBI protection or involvment would make aderence to numerology more difficult. (even though, I am sure that if this went on for years, MJ had established some ammount of creative freedom in how he would pull this off).
-
So how does the FBI fit with this?
by TS » Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:30 am
TIAI Revealed, Part 9: Today is 12-21-2009 (R49)
In this final part, we are going to be examining once again the “2012” film—especially as it relates to the concept of the end of the world on 12-21-2012, which is exactly three years from today. The “2012” movie story starts in the year 2009, and ends in 2012.
The “four years” that MJ mentioned in TII started in the spring of 2009 (when the “This Is It” concerts were in the planning stages); so we have already gone through the first year. You could also think of the four years as ending on 9-9-09, 10-10-10, 11-11-11, and 12-12-12 (ten day countdown to 12-21-12). Of course these are a little more than a year apart; but they are interesting numerology milestones in the four year process.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
“Can Ye Not Discern the Signs of the Times?”
Jesus said: “… ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?” (Matthew 16:3). Jesus also said: “… when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh [near], even at the doors. … Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.” (Mark 13:29-32).
So we don’t know the exact day or hour of the end of the world—maybe not even the exact year. But if we can “discern the signs of the times”, we should be able to know when it is near! The exact date of 12-21-2012 for the end of the world is fiction; it could happen on that date, but unlikely. However the end of the world being near is a very real concept, and not merely fiction. So let’s look at some of the “signs of the times”, which show that the end is near.
Speaking of fleeing at the end of time, Jesus said: “But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.” (Matthew 24:20,21). Did you know that 12-21-2012 will be the first day of winter (northern hemisphere)? And did you know that 12-21-2012 will be a Friday? And did you know that in the Bible, the Sabbath day begins at sunset on Friday?? Is it a coincidence, that both of the things which Jesus mentioned (winter and Sabbath) will begin on the same day that the Mayan calendar ends?
Again, this does not necessarily mean that the world will end on 12-21-2012; in fact, Jesus asked us to pray that we would not have to flee on that day. Nevertheless, the fact that all these things line up on the same day is almost certainly a clue (sign) that the end is near.
The NWO is another huge sign that the end is near. It was prophesied nearly 2,000 years ago in the book of Revelation; read the whole book, especially the last half—and most particularly Revelation chapters 17 & 18. Here are a couple verses: “These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them:” (17:13,14).
Also very well known, from the book of Revelation, is 666 and the mark of the beast (see Revelation 13 & 14). The mark is related to finances: “And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark …” (13:17).
Surely you know that USA has the largest economy in the world. But did you know that S&P 500 (not Dow) is “the most reliable measure of the broader market” {http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=7468215}? And did you know that the S&P 500 hit a low of 666 this year on 3-6-09 {http://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story.asp?StoryId=%7bD2687B35-8BC2-4AA9-A2D4-A004E3E15AF1%7d}; even the date is similar to 666 (subtract 3 from the last digit, and add it to the first digit). This was the bottom point in the worst US recession since the great depression; and in fact many people were calling it the verge of financial “Armageddon” (another end-of-the-world term from Revelation). What does this mean? Surely, it is another sign that the end is near.
Daniel 12:4 says that in “… the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.” Do we see that today? Travel on a major scale, the likes of which has never existed before in human history. And also there is increasing knowledge in many areas, never before known to man. In fact the internet, a major source of knowledge, has only come into normal household use in the last decade or two. Furthermore, the speed that we can now share information on the internet (through videos, pictures, etc) is something that we couldn’t do just a few years ago.
Another sign of the end is many natural disasters (see Matthew 24:7; Mark 13;8; Luke 21:11; etc). Did you know that earthquakes (along with other disasters) are on the increase? {http://earthquake.usgs.gov/}
As mentioned already (see R47), the Ark of the Covenant plays a major role near the end of time. Again, stayed tuned to TIAI for more info on the Ark; this will certainly happen well before 12-21-2012.
And what about the Mayan calendar ending on 12-21-2012, should we entirely dismiss this? Again, maybe nothing will happen on that exact day—perhaps not even in that year; but especially in light of all the other signs, it is pretty evident that the Mayans did not miss the end of the world by centuries, or even decades. Sometimes I think that the ancient civilizations had more true wisdom than modern man, with all his boasted technology and science.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
“The Son of Man Cometh at an Hour When Ye Think Not.”
“Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.” (Luke 12:40; see 12:46; Matthew 24:50). “… the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.” (1 Thessalonians 5:2,3; see Luke 17:26-30).
Different people have different concepts—even within Christianity—about the end of the world: when it will happen, how it will happen, etc. And other religions also have their concepts of the end of time. But most people in most religions are realizing that the world is on the verge of some major change; that is just too obvious to hide.
And for those who think that there will be at least seven more years before the end, be careful. Maybe there will be, but maybe not. Remember that the Jews—even Christ’s own disciples—thought that prophecy was yet to be fulfilled, before the Messiah would come; and yet the prophecy had already been fulfilled, and they didn’t recognize it (see Malachi 4:5; Matthew 17:10-13; etc).
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
“There Shall Come in the Last Days Scoffers”
“Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.” (2 Peter 3:3,4; see 3:5,6).
Scoffing is another major sign that the end is near. Just because there have been false alarms in the past, doesn’t mean that the real thing will never come. So don’t be too quick to join in with the scoffing attitude.
And don’t be over confident in what the media or scientists tell you (that it’s not the end of the world); often scientists are right, but they have also been wrong at times (see 1 Timothy 6:20).
Scientists were wrong in the days of Noah; they told everyone not to worry about any flood, because it had never rained before and “all things [would] continue as they were from the beginning of the creation” (see Genesis 2:5; 2 Peter 3:3-6). So of all the people in the antediluvian world: only eight refused to believe the scientists, and decided to get into the ark of safety.
Do you think that the flood is just a myth? Jesus took it literally, and used it as an example of how people would be at the end of the world: “And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.” (see Matthew 24:37-39; Hebrews 11:7; 1 Peter 3:20; 2 Peter 2:5; etc). Again, stay tuned to TIAI: and soon you will see abundant evidence that the flood of Noah literally happened—similar to the final scenes in the “2012” movie.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
This Is REALLY It!
The end of the world is near: whether you want it or not, whether you believe it or not, whether you’re ready or not—the end of the world is coming, soon and very soon! This is big; this is huge; this is colossal; in fact, it really doesn’t get any bigger than this!!! And once again, from the London press conference {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1znYaU0oeo&feature=PlayList&p=4337629E8ED55A02&index=4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1znYaU0oeo&feature=PlayList&p=4337629E8ED55A02&index=4)}: “This is it, I mean this is REALLY it; this is the final — this is the FINAL curtain call.”
As ignisaeternus just pointed out: "... it has been mentioned numerous times that the 333 pages were released o 12/21 (2009)- which of course is also time of the 911 call." {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=275#p313434 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=275#p313434)}. Actually, they were released on 12-22-09; but 12-21 was the date that the 333 pages were supposed to be released, and it got delayed one day because of bad weather.
Anyway, some have questioned if the FBI would be involved in the numerology; and as I already mentioned, Elvis had governement help and also used numerology (including planning the death date to fit the numerology). So regardless of why, the fact is that they can include numerology--and in fact they already have done so with Elvis, so why not with MJ?
Anyone who has read the numerology posts already knows that 111 is the most fundamental number of the MJ hoax {see especially Update #4, http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=125&t=7010 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=125&t=7010)}. Along with almost all of the hoax numbers, 333 also divides evenly by 111. The chance of this being a coincidence is about 1 in 111.
However, planning to release these exact same 333 pages on 12-21, what are the odds that this was ALSO a coincidence? With 365 days in a year, it would be 1 chance in 365. Of course someone could say that there are more opportunities for a coincidence during the year, such as 11-5 (V); however, that date would not divide evenly by 111; and 1221 does divide evenly by 111. Also, 12:21 is the time of the 911 call. So there is no day of the year which would fit better to release the 333 pages, than on 12-21 (also the date of TIAI Revealed :) .
Now what are the odds that the pages were 333 by coincidence, AND the planned release was 12-21 by coincidence? Multiply the two odds: 111 x 365 = one chance in 40,515 that this was just a coincidence. And if it's not a coincidence, then we know that the FBI are helping with the hoax--and we also know that they are including numerology, just like with Elvis.
Finally, what are the odds that the FBI funeral article with the "Thriller" graveyard would be dated on the anniversary of the MJ burial, just by coincidence--in addition to the above "coincidences" (333 & 12-21), and all the other "coincidences" (FBI cap, other numerology, etc)?
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/september/funeral-scams/financial-fraud-and-funeral-scams (http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/september/funeral-scams/financial-fraud-and-funeral-scams)
-
Hypothetically speaking- I wonder if there is a way to look-up/find doctors in say the last 5 years or so that have been busted for improper disturbution of narcotics...then maybe see if MJ went to any...../shrug...if there was a way to do that.
-
Anyway, some have questioned if the FBI would be involved in the numerology; and as I already mentioned, Elvis had governement help and also used numerology (including planning the death date to fit the numerology). So regardless of why, the fact is that they can include numerology--and in fact they already have done so with Elvis, so why not with MJ?
One thing that I am sure of with this hoax. THERE IS NO COINCIDENCE! I'm a little bit confused with this TS. Do you mean that FBI arranged the dates of the funeral and the memorial which perfectly fits with making 666 upside down to 999? Michael didn't arrange the dates and the numerology of the hoax? Then, FBI is giving us a message about illuminati?
-
Ok I didn't realize you were gonna go there TS. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> I was trying to just stay on the subject of the paramedics but now that you opened up the direction of this to go towards the FBI being involved I am re-posting some info I have known about for a while now. I didn't want to get to ahead of the game, lol
There is actually a lot of thoughts I have that go beyond just this type of info. I have some theories regarding the body guards and the 3 people who helped to get Michael ready for his Memorial/burial. I am basing my opinion on info I have watched. Until that subject comes up I will be silent. <!-- s:| -->:|<!-- s:| --> Some of the links below will have to copied and pasted into the browser. I do not know why some work and others do not. @Anyone who is interested: This is a long post but worth reading. <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->
Peace
<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?p=288688#p288754 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=288688#p288754)<!-- l -->
TIAI 01/02
by Im_convincedmjalive » Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:11 am
This thread below has info on factions and undercover work. I agree with SoldierofLOVE that Michael is involved with law enforcement (deep under cover) and he is on a mission to clean up the corrupt Government in the USA and at the same time warn others of the shady stuff their Govts. are doing to them also.
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=14140&p=239909#p239085
viewtopic.php?f=72&t=1930&start=0
Now back to the “MJ Conspiracy” book and video. Quite obviously, there was a conspiracy against MJ, even though it wasn’t a murder conspiracy. And the testimony from Aphrodite shows that people involved in a conspiracy may not even know it themselves (only the upper levels understand). And even after she recognized the conspiracy, it seems that she only saw media and money as the source of the conspiracy—not the NWO powers controlling the media.
The conspiracy did succeed to the extent of damaging MJ’s reputation; but it did not succeed to the extent of the court finding him guilty. At the end of the video clip, Aphrodite asked a very appropriate question: “Why are we still crucifying this man? He was found not guilty.”
viewtopic.php?f=72&t=7194&start=0&hilit=key+people
Only a few key people in the know are needed to pull off this payback.
MJ has been planning this hoax for many years; and he had the time and influence to get a few key people in the right positions to pull it off—and yes, even government agencies still have some good people in them. Look at history: many times people in high positions have stood up against the corruption in their own system (government, or church, etc).
<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=48&t=14140&p=239909#p239085 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=14140&p=239909#p239085)<!-- l -->
Panel discussion about the criminal & civil case against
by Im_convincedmjalive » Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:50 pm
Here's what I think....I think Melville is nervous....I think the tide is turning toward Michael's good name finally being cleared....I think this is all part and parcel to the underlying roots of the Hoax....Sneddon was not there because he's the object of the investigation....for why else would he NOT be there?....think about it.....Michael is slowly but surely making sure his long awaited justice comes to him....he is able to accomplish this a lot better from behind the cloak of "death".....the theory that Michael is being helped by the FBI or other authorities totally fits with a scenario like this.....Sweet Baby Jesus!....this is really getting good, people.....
good theory. just one question- if you think one of the reasons for the hoax is the NWO, then would the FBI be in on it? and if one or two people did release the 333 pages (which i think is pretty fair to assume it's not a coincidence), wouldn't that person/persons be threatened?
i'm not saying you know all the answers, i think your theory is wonderful and i agree on most parts. it's just the NWO thing is so tricky!
Well it could be Factions?
Long but worth it
WHAT DO I MEAN WHEN I TALK ABOUT THE TWO FACTIONS?
Posted By: Rayelan <Send E-Mail>
Date: Tuesday, 23-Dec-2003 17:43:31
WHAT ARE THE FACTIONS?
WHERE DID THEY COME FROM?
What is the Main difference Between Them?
RMNEWS -- In 1989, the Publisher of Rumor Mill News, Rayelan Allan, married Captain Gunther K. Russbacher, Office of Naval Intelligence attached to the CIA.
Gunther Russbacher is the first person to introduce the concept of "The Factions" to the world at large. Rumor Mill News was the first internet news site to to write about the "Secret War Between the Factions"... a mostly silent war that goes on behind the scenes.
The Factions exist in every country throughout the world. They are in every political party, every Non Governmental Group (NGOs), every state, county, town and even your school boards!
Faction One is the group of international bankers and corporations that wish to control the entire world. Faction Two (F2) is made up of a covert group of men and women who know what Faction One (F1) wants, and purposely throws roadblocks in their path to slow down their world takeover.
Rumor Mill News was started in 1996 to reveal some of the hidden truths about the governments of the world. One of the hidden truths that the founders of Rumor Mill News revealed to a large audience in 1992 was that the Federal Reserve Banking System in the United States is NOT owned by the United States government. It is owned by international bankers who have their headquarters in the "City of London", which is a separate part of London.
The owners of the Federal Reserve, through the United Nations, Non Governmental Organizations, think tanks, non-profits, the World Bank, the IMF and other means, have used the money they stole from the American people to infiltrate and "buy" i.e. "steal" the wealth of other countries.
The "owners" of the Federal Reserve are made up of 300 interconnected families. These families are firmly planted in ALL countries of the world. These families have a plan for a ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT which will be UNDER their control. All nations and people will LOSE their sovereignty.
The common phrase for these people and their plan is: THE NEW WORLD ORDER.
Most American patriots and other nationalists around the world KNOW about the threat to their sovereignty from the New World Order. What they don't know is that there has been another force, hiding in the shadows. A force that has been putting road blocks in the path of the New World Order since the end of World War Two.
The men and women who make up this hidden force call themselves Faction Two, (F2). They label themselves this way because THEY came second. The bankers of the New World Order set about destroying the sovereignty of nations. The men and women of Faction Two formed as a result of losing their nations.
In the United States, the members of Faction Two call themselves "The Cowboys".
To fully explain the Factions, I would have to write a book, In this article I will TRY to be Brief:
Faction One is the New World Order, made up of the International bankers, the 300 un-named families who also own our Federal Reserve Banking System. These families are descended ideologically AND biologically from the Rothschild funded Illuminati. Faction One also created the Corporations.
Corporations were created by the King of England who was/is owned and controlled by the Rothschilds.
The center for Faction One is located in a private nation/state within London. This nation state is called "The City of London". It is an autonomous nation/state similar to the Vatican and Washington DC.
From the "City of London", the Illuminati bankers control the entire planet, planning wars, famine, disease, drought, and other disasters which will contain and subjugate humans... especially those living in the first world countries.
Faction Two is descended from the King of Bavaria, the Knights Templars and the German Abwehr. Faction Two was created by men whose countries had been destroyed by the New World Order.
In 1784, the King of Bavaria blew the whistle on the planned take-over of the monarchies of Europe by the Illuminati/Rothschilds. As a a result, the NWO, which had expected to go "online" in 1776, had to retreat to the shadows and build up their strength for their "next planned world-takeover".
See this timeline and please notice the date the Illuminati was founded. May 1st... that date has now come to be associated with the communist workers party. To understand why this is so, you have to know this history of communism and that it was founded by the Illuminati bankers.
May 1, 1776 – Historically, it refers specifically to the Bavarian Illuminati, an Enlightenment-era secret society founded on May 1st, 1776. In modern times it is also used to refer to a purported conspiratorial organization which acts as a shadowy “power behind the throne …Historically, it refers specifically to the Bavarian Illuminati, an Enlightenment-era secret society founded on May 1st, 1776. In modern times it is also used to refer to a purported conspiratorial organization which acts as a shadowy “power behind the throne,” allegedly controlling world affairs through present day governments and corporations, usually as a modern incarnation or continuation of the Bavarian Illuminati.
1784 – For much more about the original Bavarian Illuminati, see Chapter But for our discussion here, the second piece of the conspiratorial whammy came when King Karl Theodor outlawed all secret societies in Bavaria in 1784, including both the Illuminati and the the Freemasons. Illuminati founder Adam Weishaupt (who really was up to no good) was forced to flee the country, chased by the king’s soldiers.
1785 – Public attention was first drawn to the existence of the Illuminati and their diabolical plan for world conquest as the result of a bizarre accident in 1785. History records that a courier for the Illuminati, named Lanze, was racing on horseback from Frankfurt to Paris carrying documents relating to Illuminati activities in general, and specific instructions for the planned French Revolution in particular.
Read more: <!-- m -->http://politicalpete.com/illuminati-tim ... KQFBSpVZ&C (http://politicalpete.com/illuminati-timeline-in-history/#ixzz0KQFBSpVZ&C)<!-- m -->
Other articles, which are linked below, give more background. This is just a thumbnail sketch.
The main difference between the two factions is
Slavery versus Freedom.
Over the years, I have posted many different articles in which I talked about the two Factions who appear to be vying for control of the world.
Faction 1, the NWO promises us a future that is a slave state.
Faction 2, the one that my ex-husband Gunther Russbacher talked about, promises us a world that is similar to the United States in the 50s.... not perfect... but definitely NOT a Slave-State!
Before RMN appeared on the web, the concept of "Factions" did not exist. The only place it had been mentioned, besides the print edition of RMNews, was in Rodney Stich's "Defrauding America", a book for which Gunther Russbacher was the main source.... not the ONLY government source... but the main one!
I first started posting information on the web about the Two Factions in 1999. If you have been with RMN since that time, then of course you know what the Factions are, so you can skip this article.
However, we have many new readers AND new RMNews Agents who have never read these articles. Here at RMN we encourage independent thought and as a result we also have a few RMN Agents who have their own opinions of what the TWO factions are... there are some people who have even created a Faction Three.
There is a Faction Three... several of them.
# One is made up of Rogues who fight for whoever gives them the most money.
# Another is made up of a coalition of people from both Faction Two and Faction One because they believe both factions are wrong.
# Yet another is made up of the children of Faction One who no longer want to play the centuries long game of world control.
Here is the first article I ever wrote about the Factions:
FACTION TWO -- THE ABWEHR -- KNIGHTS TEMPLARS
Posted By: Rayelan -
Date: Sunday, 10 September 2000, 5:19 p.m. - An Explanation Faction Two
To really understand where my ex-husband is coming from, when he told me about Faction Two, you need to know a little about him, who he was, where he came from and what he knew.
You might also want to see what he looks like. This is part of the only video interview that is in the public domain. The producers of ABC and Geraldo Rivera's canceled TV program, Now It Can Be Told also have taped interviews of Gunther, but they have never released them.
Admiral Gunther K. Russbacher was a 30 plus year veteran of the CIA and the Office of Naval Intelligence. He was also the co-founder of the print edition of Rumor Mill News.
IS MICHAEL JACKSON'S TRIAL REVENGE FROM FACTION ONE?
In the case of the current accuser, the fact that he lied in a case that his mother brought against JC Penney's should tell jurors that the boy's mother can coerce him into lying.
Regarding the 1993 accuser, I think people need to ask themselves why the young man chooses to live in France and has NOT spoken to his parents since 1993.
<!-- m -->http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/fo ... read=71725 (http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=71725)<!-- m -->
Could it be that his parents, along with the same lawyer and same psychologist used by the current accuser, made these allegations against Michael for money. In this original case, did you know that Michael did NOT want to settle out of court. He wanted to go to court. It was his insurance company that convinced him to settle.
In the case of Michael Jackson, there are many things in his background that alert me to the fact that he could have been working behind the scenes for Faction Two for a very long time.
Intelligence agencies create film stars, singers, dancers and sports heros in order to use them to get close to "target" people. In the case of Shirly MacClaine, she was used in many different ways, one of them was to become the girlfriend of an Australian politician and then blackmail him into changing banking laws so the CIA could open banks in Australia to launder drug money. Did she understand everything she was doing? Of cource not. All spies operate on a "need to know". basis, and all she was told was to befriend this fellow... I think it was Andrew Peacock... but without going back in my files I will have to rely on the Australians to confirm this for me.
Without understanding the war between the Factions, it's hard to see Michael Jackson's case as anything but a case against a pedophile. Hopefully it's clear to most readers that when pedophiles molest children, a lot more is done than just licking their hair or giving them "wedgies". The pedophile cases that have been in the news recently should give people an idea of what pedophiles do to children. When they rape children, their tear them internally. Many times the children die of infection while the pedophiles are continuing to rape them.
The horrors that these children endure CAN'T be compared to what Michael Jackson has been accused of. Michael was NEVER accused of penetrating a child!
Regardless of what the jury says about Michael, I believe he is innocent of the charges. In my opinion, someone is out to get Michael. I do not know why.
I can guess that the SONY executives have a great deal to gain from Michael's conviction. A company, which is jointly owned by Jackson and Sony, controls the catalogs of such artists as the Beatles, Brooks & Dunn, Leonard Cohen, David Crosby, Miles Davis, Neil Diamond, Bob Dylan, Merle Haggard, Lauryn Hill, Willie Nelson, Stevie Nicks...
<!-- m -->http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/fo ... read=72608 (http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=72608)<!-- m -->
Michael probably alienated himself from SONY further when he went to the Harlem headquarters of the Reverend Al Sharpton's National Action Network to lend his support to a coalition the two men recently formed with attorney Johnnie Cochran to examine whether the music industry is cheating artists out of profits. Quoting Michael from the press conference:
"The record companies really do conspire against the artists, especially the black artists" Jackson told the crowd of 350 fans.
"When you fight for me, you're fighting for all black people, dead and alive. We have to put a stop to this incredible injustice."
Michael also launched into a tirade against Tommy Mottola, accusing the Sony Music honcho of being a racist and mistreating artists of color and ticked off the names of artists he felt have been wronged, including Mottola's ex-wife, Mariah Carey, James Brown and Sammy Davis Jr.
Please remember that SONY is Standard Oil of New York, a Rockefeller corporation. The Rockefellers are major players in Faction One and the NWO. As most readers understand, Faction One aka the NWO... is made up from the 300 families who own the Federal Reserve Banking System. These are the people who control the economies of the world. These are the people who rule WHO becomes famous and WHO stays famous!!
It is my opinion that Faction ONE is out to railroad Michael Jackson. I don't believe that their ONLY reason is to get the catalog that Michael owns. It's my opinion that Michael probably assisted Faction Two in some of their "pedophile hunts". If Michael did this and thereby provided Faction Two with information on Faction ONE-controlled pedophiles, or on Faction One pedophile operations, then the trial of Michael Jackson is probably revenge for this.
Here is a repost from a year ago. I wrote about MJ, Kobe Bryant and Martha Stewart. ALL three are associated with Faction Two. However, it's my belief that the ONLY one who actually KNEW of his association with F2 was Michael.
Why do I think this:
Because of this medal:
(http://www.rumormillnews.com/pix/pic66035.jpg)
It's a MEDAL OF HONOR from the City of Vienna, called "The big golden Medal of Honor of Merits for the County of Vienna with the Star". Even though officials from Vienna have pooh-poohed the possibility of him ever having been given one, I find it highly possible that a member of Faction Two, who HAD been given such a medal, could have given HIS to MJ.
Faction TWO was started by Austrians, and at the time I was married to Gunther, Kurt Waldheim was the ranking member in Faction Two. I could easily see Waldheim giving Michael his medal for assisting F2 in breaking up a pedophile ring!
There is much more I could say and have said about MJ and Faction Two... but if I did, you would never have time to review the information from last year. Some of which explains how Thomas Sneddon very well may be brought up on charges himself as has been stated in this article by the Partisan:
Read more go
<!-- m -->http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/ar ... read=72941 (http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=72941)<!-- m -->
<!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->
<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=48&t=14140&p=239909#p239097 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=14140&p=239909#p239097)<!-- l -->
Panel discussion about the criminal & civil case against
by Im_convincedmjalive » Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:33 pm
<!-- m -->http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/ar ... read=72818 (http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=72818)<!-- m -->
MICHAEL JACKSON IS HELPING CLEAN OUT CALIFORNIA
Posted By: Rayelan <Send E-Mail>
Date: Wednesday, 8-Jun-2005 17:44:11 This is from The Partisan:
In regards to recapitulating the corruption in California, please note posts:
ARE WE SEEING GLIMPSES OF THE WAR BEHIND THE SCENES?
<!-- m -->http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/fo ... read=56291 (http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=56291)<!-- m -->
and
THE PARTISAN WAS RIGHT ABOUT THE DALLAS FED
<!-- m -->http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/fo ... read=56302 (http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=56302)<!-- m -->
This has huge bearing on the status of California, indicating that the rats’ most powerful secret global-political asset (control of the omnipotent US secret Department of Energy Programs) has been taken away from them.
The nerve center of this control WAS in CA (Livermore, Berkeley, etc)
and undoubtedly could have been used with great effect as an unseen lever to
control all aspects of CA life by the dominator.
Curiously, NO NEWS of this change has been advertised… almost as if the CA infrastructure is left standing as a front operation to hide the true shift toward more
TX-based control. But to cut the powerbase of the CA dominator, cutting the ties
between CA and the secret “DOE†programs would be the worst possible
news for the dominator. Subsequently, all the rats no longer are
untouchable in CA… hence we see the various purifications in CA ongoing.
Arnie is playing a lead role in the clean sweep. <!-- s:?: -->:?:<!-- s:?: -->
In this sense the Michael Jackson trial is a perfect opportunity to set up, identify, and purge hidden assets of the dominator.
During the MJ trial, very high level favors and communiqués could be created/generated with the intent of hooking positive responses from those who have long been compromised.
MJ is like a magnet and all the iron filings are bending along the lines of power…
the corrupted will bend with the corrupt network of favors and communiqués.
Even if he is convicted he will be a supreme force multiplier for doing the
same work in uncovering the corruption and degradation existing in the
federal prison systems...
...a major player in the dominator's enforcement arm.
PP
AND:
F2 MICHAEL JACKSON, KOBE BRYANT & MARTHA STEWART
Posted By: Rayelan <Send E-Mail>
Date: Tuesday, 17 August 2004, 3:51 a.m.
In Response To: ANOTHER SIGN THAT F2 IS WINNING.... (Never_Surrender)
For those who don't KNOW what the Factions are,
Here is a page which briefly explains them.
<!-- m -->http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/fo ... read=41807 (http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=41807)<!-- m -->">
WHAT DO I MEAN WHEN I TALK ABOUT THE TWO FACTIONS?
There are more things going on in the news that are probably signals to those in the know that Faction Two is winning this "behind the scenes" war with the New World Order.
To fully understand what I am about to point out, you have to have a background. I have inserted pieces of an article I wrote back in December after these facts, just in case you haven't been keeping up with all this Faction stuff.
Today the prosecutor in Michael Jackson's case went on trial.
You can read the entire story here: <!-- m -->http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,129099,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,129099,00.html)<!-- m -->
Santa Barbara County District Attorney Tom Sneddon is being investigated for ordering law enforement officers from Santa Barbara to break down the door of investigator, Bradley Miller. Miller was working for Michael Jackson's lawyer, Mark Geragos.
What Sneddon did was violate the attorny client privilige. If Jackson's current lawyer, Thomas Mesereau Jr., is successsful in proving that Sneddon knew Miller worked for Geragos, Sneddon could be thrown off the case and the case would be turned over the the Attorney General of the State of California for further prosecution.
However, this would cause a conflict of interest because Sneddon would also be under investigation by the Attorney General of California.
If Jackson wins this three day hearing, I predict the case will be thrown out. I have never believed Jackson was a pedophile. If you wonder why I believe this way. Here are my reasons:
Michael Jackson
If you remember, years ago I wrote about Operation Clydesdale, the Faction Two operation that was run about of the FBIs Division 5 in NYC. I think the Operation was made up entirely of CIA covert operatives, many of whom were posing as U.S. Attorneys working for Rudolph Guiliani. Gunther's name at that time was James Kinkaid and he was a US attorney.
Gunther actually went to Washington Law School under the name Emory Peden. Emory Peden was the banker for the CIA... otherwise known as the #3 man.
One thing Gunther told me about Michael Jackson is that he was NOT a pedophile. If Jackson had been a pedophile, Pepsi and Kentucky Fried Chicken, both F2 companies would never have hired him. Gunther told me that Michael had been horribly abused as a child. He also told me that while he and others were conducting Operation Clydesdale, they spent a lot of time with Jackson. He never told me why, but I assume he helped them in some way!
Since Faction One turns men into pedophiles so they can blackmail them and use them forever, Faction Two's pedophile hunt, is NOT very well liked by F1... and anyone who was known to help in the pedophile hunt, would be fair game for Faction One. I think Michael Jackson is being brought down because he is associated with Faction Two.
Today Kobe Bryant was in court. Prosecutors suffered another setback, losing their attempt to keep the NBA star's lawyers from telling jurors about the alleged victim's sex life.
What Kobe's lawyers want to tell the jurors is Kobe's accuser had sex with another man within hours of having sex with Kobe. The injuries she claims she suffered when Kobe "raped" her could just as well have come from this man.
The prosecutors also tried to have the case delayed "indefinitely". The judge ruled against this also and the trial is scheduled to begin August 27th.
Kobe's accuser recently filed a civil lawsuit against Kobe. Her father wrote a blistering letter to the judge which was published in a local newspaper. The father was angry over the leaks that keep coming from the court. The alledged victim's name has been leaked, as has other embarassing and potentially damaging information. It appears as if the accuser and her family will no longer cooperate with the prosecutor. If this happens, the prosecutor will probably drop the case.
Kobe Bryant
I was told that the team Kobe Bryant plays for is a Faction Two team. I was also told that Kobe made a similar pass at another hotel employee several years ago. She will be called as a witness. If my informant is correct, she will explain that Kobe was a perfect gentleman, and when he realized that she did not want to have sex with him, he backed off.
Courtney Love For years now I have been reading articles about Courtney Love and her agreement with the Illuminati Lords of Hollywood. There are certain actors and actresses, usually of zero talent, who sell their souls for the limelight. Courtney Love is one of these. Some investigators believe she killed her husband Kurt Cobain at the behest of corporate interests who promised her fame and fortune. If she has been protected by the Hollywood Illuminati, then her trial could be a sign that the Illuminati no longer controls all the judges in California.
The final piece for today is just a reminder of the extremely light sentence Martha Stewart was given. She could have been sent to prison for 4 years and they could have made her start her sentence immediately. She received 5 months in jail followed by 5 months of house arrest, and her jail sentence will not start until after the appeal.
The government charged Martha Stewart with lying. They did not charge her with insider trading. She was charged with lying to federal officials. She wasn't under oath, but evidently that doesn't matter. However, a government ink expert lied under oath at her trial. Yes, he is on trial, but the fact that the government lied at a trial for "lying" is beyond ludicrous.
If Martha Stewart is needed by Faction Two to bring K-Mart back, then I suspect someone from their ranks probably got a message to the judge as to what this case was all about. If you missed my analysis of the real reason behind the Martha Stewart prosecution, here it is:
Martha Stewart If you remember, I have posted several articles about Martha Stewart and the fact that Faction Two made her. Here is one that contains the links to the other two articles: FACTION 2 MADE MARTHA STEWART & THEY CAN BREAK HER!
To sum it up here, Faction Two got fed up with Martha's personality. When a Faction One man was insulted by her and sought revenge, Faction Two allowed her to go through this... to teach her a lesson.
They are now back on her side... they can't let her sink because K-Mart is F2's version of Walmart...
Walmart has just about destroyed the United States economy! We need to organize a boycott Walmart movement. When Walmart comes to a town, they price their things so low they drive all the small shops out of business, But once all the competition is gone, Walmart jacks up the price and screws you again. First they screw you by buying everything from overseas and putting you out of a job, then they come to town and run all the small businesses out of town, and finally, once they have all the business, they jack up prices and screw you again!!
Since Faction Two needs Martha Stewart's line in K-Mart to compete with Walmart, I suspect that Martha will be found innocent and the new and improved Martha will probably surprise all of us with the things she will do in the future... including personal appearances at many K-Mart stores and helping... actually getting down and helping, poor inner city youth.
<!-- m -->http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/ar ... read=72941 (http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=72941)<!-- m -->
<!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: -->
Speechless you make me speechless...
Agent MJ <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
Peace
<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=48&t=14140&p=239909#p239110 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=14140&p=239909#p239110)<!-- l -->
-
@It´s her,
I understand your theory regarding the "fake" 2005 trial. Myself had that thought as well last year or earlier. MJ recreating the same scenario to prove legally that he was innocent and part of a scam when Chandler´s father accused him of child molestation, as it happened with the Arvizos; same goal-->$$ & destroy reputation.
I believe the trial was real, but I have my doubts if the characters were acting to some point. However, Michael had a fair trial as any American person is entitled to and was proclaimed innocent from all charges.
This was the real proof that MJ was always innocent, aquitted by a jury.
The tale of "MJ paid his innocence with Chandler´s case" was supossed to be burried forever, but still, some people, after the years, is not believing in Michael´s innocence and this I believe has been a big part for Michael to create his hoax death among other scenarios. To clean his name is very important, is the esscence to lave a clean legacy to his children.
@TS_comments,
I am a bit confused with the way you are ponting towards MJ hoaxing for a witness protection program. I read some of your updates and I understood that you wrote that there is no room for the witness protection program theory.
@Souza,
bay leaves have many symbolic interpretations during history. It could also point towards those symbolisms, but, how do we know that the "leaf pattern" being discussed are bay leaves on the 1st place?
@all,
The only conection I see between some police department and MJ are:
-LaToya: She is a police in Indiana.
-Murray: For some reason I think that he is more than a doctor.
Hi Gema,
What if MJ and his attorneys had settled this matter at the first level, to see if there was evidence to even go to trial? What if charges had been dismissed, rightly, for lack of evidence, nearly immediately?
What I was thinking, was that it would be a KILLER TROPHY <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> for MJ, and the greatest demonstration of "wool-pulling over-the-eyes"
EVER, <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: -->
to have it all come out that the ravenous, rabid, ignorant, money, money, media vultures, salivating, to bite and devour an INNOCENT man, were
ALL THE WHILE and YET, TO THIS DAY,
circling a fictional trial, where there NEVER WAS a real story, just a pretend horror show for MJ's masterpiece movie collection. We could be headed to the best BAM EVER: vultures,
"YOU have been PUNKED"! <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->
What would nail a big beaming ( COOL!) grin for me personally, is if MJ could also prove that this AND the Murray trials were projects for UCLA Film School <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: -->
That is NOT to say I am disrespectfully mocking any fact that both of these trials could be real. But they are fair game, as I just simply don't know that truth. Yet.
All I do know is that MJ didn't get the name "Joker" from knitting bandages in his rocker. <!-- s:P -->:P<!-- s:P --> <!-- s:P -->:P<!-- s:P --> I WANT to see fiendish delight on his face!!
The man IS a twisted prankster, and also a man with a higher social conscience than anyone I have ever heard of. If there is a wrong to be righted by himself, he will use every joule of brainpower to make it so, AND give the enemy the "what for".
Eradicating all the CONTINUING!! bad press and obscene books written about him, as if he had been convicted, has been a LOOOOONG time coming. Maybe THIS IS IT, that's all.
Despite the ruckus, I know some more here heard what I actually said, even if you disagree. It is NEVER wrong to question----anything. Your mind isn't simply a receiver. Sometimes, I, at least, throw things back.
I can take the Truth, even if it proves me wrong. Have not heard much yet. But I won't be embarrassed, no matter what. I would much rather be a corrected-error, than comfortably nestled in error because I NEVER checked.... <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> <!-- s:( -->:(<!-- s:( -->
-
Im_convinced, thanks for the reminder of the two factions, I remember reading about them on the original thread that you provided with your post. It actually makes me feel a little better about this whole FBI involvement in the hoax.
I admit to a mistrust of large government agencies, especially ones where a lot of information is kept from the public. But if there is a group of people, within the Bureau, who are actually good people and don't want to see a one world government, then I think it's entirely possible that these are the ones who are helping Michael. That is what I really really want to believe. But I would like to understand, for myself, how they are accomplishing it without others in their realm noticing. I just really want to believe that there are still good people in the world, who have influential positions that can actually be used for the good of everyone and not just for themselves. It makes me nervous whenever the government is involved, even a branch of it...
-
Elvis met with Nixon on the 21/12/70. He also was heavily into numerology, and for his last performance, wore a Mayan calender jumpsuit that had his date of death on it....
And is that why Harvey from TMZ recently sang or recordered "MY WAY" ??? Are we getting close to a comeback??
<!-- m -->http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/nsa/elvis/elnix.html (http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/nsa/elvis/elnix.html)<!-- m -->
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yQsIy9jsSk[/youtube]
-
Thanks for the info, Im_convincedmjalive. I remember reading some of this earlier but it's nice to get a refresher. It makes a lot of sense actually. I'm just curious what the BAM will do to this conspiracy that has been mentioned quite a bit by his family. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
-
Thanks Im_convinced. I jotted this titbit down last week from somewhere in my cyber travels.
People magazine interview June 25th 1979. Country singer Merle Haggard voiced his opinion that Elvis death could have been a hoax.
-
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/september/funeral-scams/financial-fraud-and-funeral-scams[/url]
:shock: :shock: :shock:
I must confess this is shocking and quite convincing :shock:
-
Please if anybody can post a link to those 333 pages? I think it is the time to read it again. Thank you.
All I could find was this:
In response to Freedom of Information Act requests, the Bureau has released its investigative files on the late entertainer Michael Jackson, who died earlier this year.
The records total 333 pages, divided into seven files. They detail the FBI’s investigation of a man who threatened to kill Jackson, as well as various forms of assistance to California authorities in two cases involving allegations that Jackson had abused children. It should be emphasized that none of these allegations were ever proven in court.
The files are available on the Freedom of Information Act/Privacy website, but here is a quick rundown of what they contain.
The first file—9A-LA-142276—was opened by the Los Angeles FBI office when it was asked to lead a federal case against a California man already under arrest for sending numerous threatening letters. The man—who falsely claimed to be the son of mobster John Gotti—had staked out Jackson's house and threatened to kill him, the U.S. president, and others. He was ruled incompetent to stand trial and sent to prison for two years.
The second and third files—62D-LA-162715 and 62D-LO-11779—involve the Bureau’s support of local law enforcement. In 1993, the Los Angeles and the Santa Barbara Police departments formed a task force to investigate an allegation that Jackson had molested a young boy. FBI field divisions in Los Angeles and New York—as well as Bureau overseas offices in Manila and London—provided assistance in that case. Investigators gathered public records on Jackson, interviewed a potential witness, and followed various other leads. The FBI assisted Los Angeles Police Department detectives who traveled to the Philippines to interview possible witnesses and shared news reports from London about a potential victim. The U.S. Attorney declined to pursue a federal investigation, including a possible violation of the Mann Act (transporting a minor across state lines for immoral purposes), and no charges were filed by the state.
The fourth file—95A-HQ-1148159—concerns a 1995 request by a U.S. Customs agent in Florida that the Bureau examine a VHS videotape connected with Jackson to see if it contained child pornography. Forensic specialists discovered that the tape was a “poor quality third or fourth generation recording” and informed the Customs Service of their findings.
In 2003, Jackson was charged by the state of California with molestation and other counts.
The final three files—62D-LA-236081, 252B-IR-6808, and 305B-LA-239205—detail the Bureau’s support to local law enforcement during the ensuing investigation. The first of these files describes an FBI response to a Los Angeles Police Department request to analyze computers and digital media obtained from Jackson's home under court warrant. The second involves a request by the Santa Barbara County District Attorney for help and guidance from behavioral analysts in the FBI’s Critical Incident Response Group. In the last of the three files, an FBI agent from Los Angeles traveled to New York to interview a potential witness. The agent found this individual unwilling to cooperate and closed the matter. The case went to court in 2005, and Jackson was acquitted of all charges
-
Please if anybody can post a link to those 333 pages? I think it is the time to read it again. Thank you.
Here are they Gina, the release consists of 7 separate files: 1st-196 pages, 2nd-56 pages,3rd-9 pages,4th-8 pages, 5th-41pages, 6th-5pages, 7th- 18 pages= 333 pages.
http://foia2.fbi.gov/jackson_michael/9a-la-142276.pdf (http://foia2.fbi.gov/jackson_michael/9a-la-142276.pdf)
http://foia2.fbi.gov/jackson_michael/62d-la-162715.PDF (http://foia2.fbi.gov/jackson_michael/62d-la-162715.PDF)
http://foia2.fbi.gov/jackson_michael/62d-lo-11779.PDF (http://foia2.fbi.gov/jackson_michael/62d-lo-11779.PDF)
http://foia2.fbi.gov/filelink.html?file ... 148159.PDF (http://foia2.fbi.gov/filelink.html?file=jackson_michael/95a-hq-1148159.PDF)
http://foia2.fbi.gov/jackson_michael/62d-la-236081.PDF (http://foia2.fbi.gov/jackson_michael/62d-la-236081.PDF)
http://foia2.fbi.gov/filelink.html?file ... 239204.PDF (http://foia2.fbi.gov/filelink.html?file=jackson_michael/305b-la-239204.PDF)
http://foia2.fbi.gov/jackson_michael/252b-ir-6808.PDF (http://foia2.fbi.gov/jackson_michael/252b-ir-6808.PDF)
-
(http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/7826/eyes1mj.jpg)
-
(http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/7826/eyes1mj.jpg)
On 1.07 min speaking voice resembles to MJ, imo.Interesting video. tnk.
-
Thanks for the homework, scorpionchik!
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/september/funeral-scams/financial-fraud-and-funeral-scams[/url]
:shock: :shock: :shock:
I must confess this is shocking and quite convincing :shock:
I agree! I hope this made your day, your doubts are fading, and that you're a little happier. :)
Its Her, I think about strange things like 70 :shock: police officers raiding Neverland, and a video clip of MJ going into the courtroom--when passing the security he places a hand on his shoulder (in other words, I'm in control here IMO).
TS, thanks for your answer. If we had known before the confirmation of the FBI involvement with MJ, I think the members here would have received the MJ and Elvis connection more eagerly. This is a very strong reason to study the comparisons between them, both being used as agents against drug corruption and other high-level crime. But I'm sure it's all timing and is meant to be opened now.
Im_convincedmjalive, I remember reading that before. Makes me think of verses, "And there was war in heaven, Michael fighting with the dragon." I have no way of knowing if the writer of this info is giving us the actual reality or is mislead. But it is certainly interesting. It makes me think of the Disney 2003 movie, Eloise at Christmastime (cute 6 year old girl and Julie Andrews), there is a funny part in there about the King of Bavaria and in the end someone dresses like him, and Eloise's spying abilities enables the authorities to capture crooks wanted in 3 states for forgery, fraud and extortion. (Clues in movies!)
-
SEHF, I like your new avatar. Maybe there should be an M in place of the questionmark! :lol:
-
@Andrea: I believe some things aren't going to be explained to us to the fullest degree regarding the FBI's involment with Michael and how they did this. Need to KNOW basis. ;) I believe that in our own minds we just have to come to our own conclusions and beliefs regarding that. @looking4truth @RK You are very welcome.
I am also adding a plausable theory regarding there being a back gate at Carolwood that Michael may have slipped out of unnoticed. See below.
Contradictions! This may help shed some light on WHY there are so many contradictions with the people (witnesses) who are involved in Murray's case surrounding the "death" of Michael.
http://www.lindahoodsigmontruth.com/page50 (http://www.lindahoodsigmontruth.com/page50)
THURSDAY, JULY 22, 2010
VERY INTERESTING NEW VIDEO
My friend, Susan, has made me aware of a video of Joe Esposito and Charlie Hodge at the hospital on the day that Elvis was pronounced "dead".
The comments made by Joe in this tape are totally contradictory to every other account we have heard...from Joe himself and everyone else. The accounts given by everyone involved are at odds with each other most times.
Joe says that Elvis was found on the bed and that he had just gone upstairs to talk to him about something and found him not breathing.
Then again, sometimes, he says that he thought he heard him take a breath and that they attempted to resuscitate him until the ambulance arrived. Then again, many times he has stated that rigor mortis had set in. This is spoken to explain why Elvis in the coffin looked different than the Elvis we knew at that time...his nose was flatter.
Then we have the ambulance EMT's attempting resuscitation. They were joined by Dr. Nick who continued those efforts on the ride to the hospital and then, lastly, the efforts were continued at the hospital. Rigor mortis????
I want to emphasize that I respect Joe and that I do understand all that he has been through and how loyal he has always been to Elvis/Jesse. It took a long time for me to reach the decision to place the film of him on the Geraldo show in which he spoke "...and that's how Elvis feels about this situation" on YouTube and on my site. Same with the footage of him on Larry King with Gail regarding the pool house door photo.
I do have Elvis/Jesse's carte blanche permission to share that which I want to on my site. But, should anything on my site be displeasing to him, I will remove it immediately.
I appreciate so much that Susan shared this video with me. I had heard that Joe made this statement, but this is the first time that I have seen and heard this myself.
That all being said, please do view it with an open mind.
The owner of this video is tcbhome01 . My sincere thanks to this person for making this available for myself and others to see.
[youtube:2szhix41]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44yJsVt2p1g&feature=player_embedded[/youtube:2szhix41]
FRIDAY, AUGUST 6, 2010
ELVIS An American Legend October 18, 1995...cover shown below:
(http://tiptopwebsite.com/photos4/lindahoodsigmoncom/coverelvisanamericanlegend.jpg)
Within this publication there is an article titled 50 facts about Elvis.
One of these facts has me thinking Hmmmm!??
(http://tiptopwebsite.com/photos4/lindahoodsigmoncom/ElvisleinonGracelandtoPPApril1977.jpg)
Here is the full first page of this article:
(http://tiptopwebsite.com/photos4/lindahoodsigmoncom/fullpageof50factsaboutelvis.jpg)
Also, something of less importance but interesting...this is something that most of us already knew, but it bears repeating with August 16, 1977 in mind:
(http://tiptopwebsite.com/photos4/lindahoodsigmoncom/ElvisbackwayfromGraceland.jpg)
THURSDAY, JANUARY 13, 2011
Ron Collamore, E-mailed me earlier this week to share an offer he received from the Richard Nixon Foundation. The offer is for the sale of a newly released edition of the book titled "The Day Elvis Met Nixon". This is a wonderful book which I loved.
This is the first time that I have heard of this book being for sale since many, many years ago when it was originally published. It is being released now on the anniversary of Elvis's 76th (January 8) and President Nixon's 98th (January 9) birthdays.
I have previously devoted a page of my web site to this book and the letter which President Nixon wrote regarding the book just a few days before he passed away. If you have missed visiting this page, here is the page title and the link:
Perhaps President Nixon knew that Elvis was still here in 1994
http://lindahoodsigmontruth.com/page17 (http://lindahoodsigmontruth.com/page17)
Below is an excerpt from my article on that page:
The statement below is "It remains to be seen, however, whether the author of ......will be resourceful enough to be able to arrange for Elvis to appear at a book signing."
(http://tiptopwebsite.com/photos4/lindahoodsigmoncom/Presidentnixonletterforbook.jpg)
(http://store.nixonfoundation.org/files/2011/01/blah3.png)
(http://gallery.mailchimp.com/1b467fe3b2c9cbc8c7ded8810/images/ShowImage.1.jpg)The Day Elvis Met Nixon, White House aide Bud Krogh's first hand account of Elvis Presley's historic meeting with President Nixon, has just been published by the Richard Nixon Foundation and is now available online!
Released on the anniversary of Elvis's 76th (January 8) and President Nixon's 98th (January 9) birthdays, the book is a trove of rare photos, original documents, and anecdotes from the December 21, 1970 encounter presented in a fun and interactive way for readers of all ages.
I have a theory regarding Pearl and if I compare her to Gail Brewer-Giorgio who wrote the book Is Elvis Alive? Pearl is referencing it in her twitlonger post as that is the book that Michael read and copied his "death hoax" from...lol
If she really understood how Elvis/Jesse feels about Gail now I don't think Pearl would be saying he read and copied his hoax from that book. On Saturday 12th March 2011, @Pearljr said: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/98akss (http://www.twitlonger.com/show/98akss)
I didn't want to go here, but . . .
There's nothing new here, some believe that MJ died on June 25, 2009 and that's that!!! Nothing will sway them one way or another. If MJ did a death hoax, he most certainly would not tell Majestik, he is too easily swayed by women to keep a secret as big as that quiet.
The supposed Majestik Message promoted by the most hated MJ fan, Taaj Malik, is just a part of what she does. Create division so she can be on top. She is nothing to me, but someone people should be very wary of.
Nowhere is my name mentioned nor the name of our documentary. But since receiving so many emails regarding Majestik's Message to the fans--seemingly aimed at our company, I had to respond.
Elvis had the same death hoax and MJ studied the book "Is Elvis Alive?" to the tee and copied it. Like LMP said on Oprah "play after play after play was just like my father's". Not a coincidence but something planned by MJ himself. I didn't create any of the clues, we, the death hoax community, have discovered hundreds of clues why we beLIEve Michael Jackson faked his death.
I'm a reporter and the Michael Jackson death hoax is simply another side of the story that we, at Elbow Grease Productions, decided was worth telling.
Tell everyone not one clue was rejected in that slash and burn note. There are only words based on the arrogance of ignorance and not knowing Michael Joe Jackson. MJ would L.O.V.E. a death hoax and be offended that his stardom was not big enough to create one; that's A REASON why I believe he did it, and for several other bigger reasons to lengthy to explain here. That's why I wrote a 115,000 word EmovieBook, "Pseudocide Did Michael Jackson Fake His Death To Save His Life?" to explain in detail.
The clues are still the clues. Now if we are wrong, show us where and how, but nothing like that, just key words that push people's emotional buttons and that is what Taaj, or whatever her name is, is excellent at.
Dah, of course, if MJ did a death hoax, then the kids would know, so fooey on that plea to create more division among MJ fans and ignite a hateful environment.
MJ wrote and released a note stating "See You In July 2011" and that's what I aim to do and promote "Alive! Is Michael Jackson Really Dead" and every other thing in the death hoax, which is numerous, abundant and quite frankly, fun at times, like the 5 Alive Do Do Bird with a party favor in his mouth on Blanket's birthday this year.
Keep Michaeling and please support the documentary "Alive! Is Michael Jackson Really Dead?" This keeps MJ ALIVE and will keep his legacy vibrant. Taaj doesn't understand how the industry works, she only understands slash and burn tactics--her specialty.
This information below comes from a book called EXTRAORDINARY CARE. Anything sound familiar? Like how long the Dr. was performing CPR on Elvis...hmmm could explain WHY Murray said he performed CPR for so long on Michael.
Below you will see the covers and several pages from a book titled EXTRAORDINARY CARE. This book was copyrighted by THE AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION in 1986. I purchased it back around 1990. I had not thought to put it on here until today. It is pretty fascinating.
As you will see on the front cover and the back cover, Elvis is featured with Dr. Nick giving an interview. I do not recommend this book because the very first page is about Elvis and drugs is very unfair and unkind. I only bought this book because of the two pages of photos which you will see below.
It is an uncanny "coincidence" that in 1986 (several years before Gail Brewer-Giorgio brought this photo to the public's attention) the photo of Elvis (?) with Muhammad Ali appears on a page facing the photo of Elvis and Dr. Nick. Also, another interesting "coincidence" is that, on the same page with Elvis is a photo of and a quote from Howard Hughes's Dr. Perhaps this was one of God's little miracles of synchronicity rather than a "coincidence". Remember that Elvis believed and said that "There are no coincidences. Everything has a meaning." I, too, firmly believe this.
Also, below is a copy of an excerpt from Dr. Nick's interview with the author detailing some of the happenings on August 16, 1977. The most startling thing is Dr. Nick's statement that he did CPR on Elvis for 45 minutes. Recall, please, that Joe said that rigor mortis had already set in when he saw him in the bathroom. Amazing contradictions, aren't they!?
Amazing that Elvis, Muhammad Ali and Howard Hughes are all featured on these two pages facing each other in the book.
(http://tiptopwebsite.com/photos4/lindahoodsigmoncom/DrNickCPR.%20Nick%20CPR%20in%20Extraordinary%20care.jpg)
So I am not going to post every picture on that page but if anyone is interested there is alot of information on Linda's site that will help to explain some things if you believe in the theory that Michael paralleled alot of his "death" with Elvis' "death". In fact you might want to see the pictures on that page because when they are posted here alot of the text is cut off.
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310373#p310373 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310373#p310373)
http://lindahoodsigmontruth.com/page38 (http://lindahoodsigmontruth.com/page38)
There are more similarities than not when comparing the deaths. The link above is to a page specifically regarding Elvis' death report and autopsy.
-
i'm having a hard time with some things
if FBI are involved and MJ's in WPP then why
a)have Murray in the mix at all
b) leave clues, would the FBI agree to this?
c) would the FBI bother with numerology, or let MJ bother with it?
I never said WPP, others are saying that though. FBI is involved with much more than just WPP.
The Elvis parallels here are also interesting and informative. Elvis had governement help, and he did leave clues including numerology. But he decided not to go into WPP, because it would mean NO more contact with family or friends. Here is a little on that: http://www.lindahoodsigmontruth.com/page40 (http://www.lindahoodsigmontruth.com/page40)
As far as the numerology, I will discuss that further in another comment reply soon.
I have heard of persons in WPP who eventually opted out, went back to their former life, but it is usually always a permanent change to the new life. Michael Jackson could never <!-- s:cry: -->:cry:<!-- s:cry: --> come back, from protection. MJ, from at least October 2009, promised us a BAM! <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
Some have asked if MJ is working for the FBI as an agent or if the FBI is working for him.
YOU said, right after your "Elvis parallels" statement, that Elvis had help; i.e., they were helping Elvis. The link paints Elvis in an official capacity of some sort WITH the DEA, yet his badge has no number on it. (So sorry, Elvis, but the president cannot cause anyone to be enlisted anywhere, especially, in Federal Law Enforcement. There may be a genuine Certificate of Merit for his appreciated, Officially Recognized, real assistance, but the rest IS honorary. Enlisted get numbered badges.)
One thing I know about FBI, is, if you are hired in official enlisted capacity, you are given an office, a badge, a gun, and a vehicle. All Law Enforcement Badges are numbered, even those of undercover agents. As enamored as MJ was of the idea of the Police Force, and their pretty uniforms, and cadence together, I CAN'T see MJ accepting a loaded weapon to use for any reason. But...what do I know?
For a long time he was JW, and old training dies hard. They had a rule about enlistment in ANY military service, which included police. Of course, they forbade higher education (College), too, which (I think) was simply too backwards to take seriously, for someone with his mind. College? Thumbs way up. A service revolver? Heck, NO.
But, there is still a way to work with the FBI, if you have a case. I don't know how exactly this was done, because it is a secret to this day, but I have a friend who worked with three agents to take a certain dangerous foul person, down, and even though I saw my friend every other day, I NEVER knew about any of it until the guy had been convicted and sentenced and put away!!
To this day, I don't know who it was; I never knew about any sting operation or however they did this, no trial or anything. He will not tell me anything. I didn't believe him, so I asked where his gun and badge were. He said he was not FBI---just helping them to break their case.
He wouldn't even tell me how he even happened to meet up with FBI, to come to be doing this!---but, as in MJ's case, my friend and his best friend are in that rare group of folks who use more of their brain than the rest of people---very high I.Q.s ; something foreign governments would kill for. (and I don't doubt that the U.S. gov. would be the same, except for the fact that the lawlessness, arrogance and just plain NWO dumbing down of school children these last 100+ years has made the pool of such geniuses impossible to easily find...)
My genius friend worked and spoke with tons of people daily. I think he heard something, knew IMMEDIATELY what it was and contacted the FBI. But I don't really know. He did tell me it took months to accomplish. This sounds, to me, like what MJ could have been involved with.
You said the FBI is involved with more than WPP, and to that, I would say WAY more. In fact, I have a theory, if anyone has time. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
I haven't decided yet, whether all or some of the child molestation rhetoric and actual criminal charges were real or fabricated to provide MJ with a "cover", but, to be politic, I will pretend that all that was real and this just COINCIDENTALLY <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> made MJ very visible as someone who...maaaaaybe might be interested in child trafficking...
We already know that everyone and their brother hits on wealthy people all the time for money, but THESE bastards are particularly helpful, providing a real and discreet service for the man with discriminating tastes and lots of money.
I have seen parents put action porno pix of their OWN children on a popular list "for a good time", and I KNOW I've only seen the tip of this filthy, rotten iceberg...
MJ, was a very high profile persona, rumored to have a taste for young boys---IN FACT, after his death, certain pedophiles campaigned to make MJ the poster boy for Nambla.This thought would attract every trafficker in the world to get in on a piece of his wealth. Suppose some creep solicited him and he contacted the FBI...
MJ could have been taking down pedophile traffickers for years! I NEVER bought the stories that he cancelled concerts because he had "a fainting spell" or was ill from drugs, and I posted this a few times before: We all KNOW MJ works a show to the end if he's throwing up, back injury, dying.
We have SEEN him, exhausted, dance like he's got The Red Shoes on, for another hour. He doesn't stop a show; he doesn't cancel shows(never mind that he did!!! He may have been extorted into it.)---the show must go on!
Yes he had cancelled shows and came on TV apologizing for "his weakness" so people wouldn't hate him, so people would try to have a heart for him, forgive him. I am convinced the only time he would cancel a show would be if the fans had been threatened in some way.
TPTB threatening to massacre a hundred thousand, here and there, in some random shows. If that was a show YOU had tickets for, MJ most probably saved YOUR LIFE that day. <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o -->
NO lie.
He would NEVER scare us by telling us the reason. We would never know this---he's NOT going to glorify evil. He just keeps the secret, and heroicly PROTECTS... <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
But they must have figured out that it was MJ working undercover, when he actually WAS NEVER into sex with kids, but, doing stings for the Law. This child trafficking network is global and well connected. As parts of the evil were taken down, word must have gotten around that MJ was NOT actually pedophile, but police. Not a Black heart, but a Black NARK. <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: -->
They began terrorizing him at his job, threatening to break him at the bank, smother his creativity in future endeavors, and physically harm his fans. BESIDES trafficking children. What is he to do?
Go under further. Underground. DEAD.
"Back" mentioned something, or linked to something once, about MJ coming back to us as a BLACK KNIGHT. I would say, if he has gone that far down, to actually stand in as a fake customer and see these child sex slaves, in order to bust their captors, he must be bawling all the time. Every single day just to wash his eyes of the tragedies.
But it makes sense. omg I believe he would do <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> ANYTHING <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> for children. Even subject himself to deep, seething hatred---from strangers, outside, those sheep believing the media lies that he's dirty, and, worse, from inside, coming from his own pure heart, just from what he's seen: horror upon horror which can't ever be undone, even though he's ended the perpetrators' actions...
Can anyone confirm or deny that this could be what Back may have meant about that Black Knight business? or do you think he was just being all mysterious and showbizzy, describing MJ's new STAGE look?
It is not this darkly serious, is it?
I know MJ is hero material. It is a golden thread through all he says, sings, writes or does. <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> "He's the only one with the heart and power to do this", BJ said. One only needs heart and power for a great sacrificial leap. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
I also know he wanted to be Knighted, once. But there's a [size=14ptHUGE [/size]difference in being "One Hot Knight" , dressed like a wraith or The Batman, in his show...and a real one endangering his own real life...Can anyone say if MJ isn't doing anything remotely this dangerous and psychologically draining?
This is serious heavy stuff. TOO serious for any ARG. It makes aLOT of sense, now, in light of this theory, that his usual bodyguards are no longer with him. The stated reason was, I think, that Miko and others would be recognized and lead people to MJ.
But, no... The Man needs ARMED backup, now. omg. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
When will he ever be safe, then?
Tell me it is not this serious. <!-- s:| -->:|<!-- s:| -->
[/b]
-
Im_convincedmjalive, I remember reading that before. Makes me think of verses, "And there was war in heaven, Michael fighting with the dragon." I have no way of knowing if the writer of this info is giving us the actual reality or is mislead. But it is certainly interesting. It makes me think of the Disney 2003 movie, Eloise at Christmastime (cute 6 year old girl and Julie Andrews), there is a funny part in there about the King of Bavaria and in the end someone dresses like him, and Eloise's spying abilities enables the authorities to capture crooks wanted in 3 states for forgery, fraud and extortion. (Clues in movies!)
Here is the first article I ever wrote about the Factions:
FACTION TWO -- THE ABWEHR -- KNIGHTS TEMPLARS
Posted By: Rayelan -
Date: Sunday, 10 September 2000, 5:19 p.m. - An Explanation Faction Two
To really understand where my ex-husband is coming from, when he told me about Faction Two, you need to know a little about him, who he was, where he came from and what he knew.
You might also want to see what he looks like. This is part of the only video interview that is in the public domain. The producers of ABC and Geraldo Rivera's canceled TV program, Now It Can Be Told also have taped interviews of Gunther, but they have never released them.
Admiral Gunther K. Russbacher was a 30 plus year veteran of the CIA and the Office of Naval Intelligence. He was also the co-founder of the print edition of Rumor Mill News.
That is her husband she is talking about here. I took this info from the text I posted above. If you go to that website Rumor Mill News there is alot of information on there that explains who her husband is/was, who she is and what has happened to both of them over the years. There is alot of information on there that is worth reading to gain better insight on the inner workings of undercover work and other points of interest.
http://www.rumormillnews.com/ (http://www.rumormillnews.com/)
http://www.rumormillnews.com/RMN%20FOUN ... AYELAN.htm (http://www.rumormillnews.com/RMN%20FOUNDERS%20GUNTHER%20AND%20RAYELAN.htm)
Who Are Gunther and Rayelan Russbacher?
(http://www.rumormillnews.com//images/GUNTHER%20AND%20RAYELAN%20TI%20FCI.jpg)
-
So how does the FBI fit with this?
by TS » Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:30 am
As ignisaeternus just pointed out: "... it has been mentioned numerous times that the 333 pages were released o 12/21 (2009)- which of course is also time of the 911 call." {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=275#p313434}. Actually, they were released on 12-22-09; but 12-21 was the date that the 333 pages were supposed to be released, and it got delayed one day because of bad weather.
Anyway, some have questioned if the FBI would be involved in the numerology; and as I already mentioned, Elvis had governement help and also used numerology (including planning the death date to fit the numerology). So regardless of why, the fact is that they can include numerology--and in fact they already have done so with Elvis, so why not with MJ?
Anyone who has read the numerology posts already knows that 111 is the most fundamental number of the MJ hoax {see especially Update #4, http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=125&t=7010}. Along with almost all of the hoax numbers, 333 also divides evenly by 111. The chance of this being a coincidence is about 1 in 111.
However, planning to release these exact same 333 pages on 12-21, what are the odds that this was ALSO a coincidence? With 365 days in a year, it would be 1 chance in 365. Of course someone could say that there are more opportunities for a coincidence during the year, such as 11-5 (V); however, that date would not divide evenly by 111; and 1221 does divide evenly by 111. Also, 12:21 is the time of the 911 call. So there is no day of the year which would fit better to release the 333 pages, than on 12-21 (also the date of TIAI Revealed :) ).
Now what are the odds that the pages were 333 by coincidence, AND the planned release was 12-21 by coincidence? Multiply the two odds: 111 x 365 = one chance in 40,515 that this was just a coincidence. And if it's not a coincidence, then we know that the FBI are helping with the hoax--and we also know that they are including numerology, just like with Elvis.
Finally, what are the odds that the FBI funeral article with the "Thriller" graveyard would be dated on the anniversary of the MJ burial, just by coincidence--in addition to the above "coincidences" (333 & 12-21), and all the other "coincidences" (FBI cap, other numerology, etc)?
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/september/funeral-scams/financial-fraud-and-funeral-scams
:lol: you can't get everything perfect. :lol: (in bold)
@ AllinGoodTime I was thinking the same but it doesn't have to be about doctors it could be other things like corruption of the courts or something. But I think when MJ is done with giving the info the FBI want then he will comeback...I'm guessing. So I don't think that the FBI has what they need to stamp out corruption or whatever the case may be. I think and again I'm guessing, that it will probably come out in court.
Soon we have the trial coming up...can't wait.
On the FBI file
It’s a morbid tale involving phony death certificates, staged funerals with paid actors, and coffins buried with no bodies, but in the end, it’s just a financial fraud scheme like thousands of others we investigate every year.
Seems like MJ to me. 8-)
Also since MJ was getting help from the FBI just like Elvis, Elvis still hasn't come back...just saying...I'm not saying he won't...but I'm saying why didn't Elvis come back?
-
Joe says that Elvis was found on the bed and that he had just gone upstairs to talk to him about something and found him not breathing. :shock: since 1977 when Elvis died I always believed/remembered that he died in the bathroom! :shock: He was found on the bed not breathing like MJ WOW :shock: just the same!
Confirmed in the above video also ;)
Sorry to go a bit of topic but Im like :shock: I never knew that Im sure it wasnt reported that way, I can remember the day Elvis died like yesterday and where I was and what I was doing. :?
Sorry guys gone a bit off topic but Im like :shock:
There is indeed much more to all this than it first appears.
Thank you TS for being here and leading us in the right direction.
:)
-
The myth that people think they know as fact, i.e. Elvis died in the bathroom holding a cheeseburger or whatever they think, is another example of something almost passing into folklore because it's been joked about or parodied so much. The truth always gets lost in the hearsay. Now I'm off-topic too ;) Thanks for the guidance TS.
-
I know MJ is hero material. It is a golden thread through all he says, sings, writes or does. 8-) "He's the only one with the heart and power to do this", BJ said. One only needs heart and power for a great sacrificial leap. :?
Of course he is.
I must have missed when BJ said that :?
-
The comments made by Joe in this tape are totally contradictory to every other account we have heard...from Joe himself and everyone else. The accounts given by everyone involved are at odds with each other most times.
Joe says that Elvis was found on the bed and that he had just gone upstairs to talk to him about something and found him not breathing.
Ijustcantstoplovingu wrote:
Joe says that Elvis was found on the bed and that he had just gone upstairs to talk to him about something and found him not breathing. since 1977 when Elvis died I always believed/remembered that he died in the bathroom! He was found on the bed not breathing like MJ WOW just the same!
Confirmed in the above video also
Sorry to go a bit of topic but Im like I never knew that Im sure it wasnt reported that way, I can remember the day Elvis died like yesterday and where I was and what I was doing.
Sorry guys gone a bit off topic but Im like
There is indeed much more to all this than it first appears.
Thank you TS for being here and leading us in the right direction.
I also believed that Elvis was found in the bathroom
-
I've always thought that there were similarities between Elvis and Mj's "death", in fact on the original forum I wrote a post about it and pointed out the similarities that I had found. Although it wasn't in depth, I was disappointed when no one responded to it. It looks like I was on the right track this whole time. :D
-
Great post. Great thinking and reasoning. Can you tie in the "we have 4 years"? (is that right?)
Hm.. Well, I think Jehova Witness teaching still influenced Michael's spirituality very much (no matter what his non-religious activties were). According to their teachings, the end of the world does not mean destruction, but deliverance from those who are evil (and I know this because my husband started to have Bible Study every week with a Jehova's Witness). In that- helping uncover corruption that endangers children on the micro level and (as pointed out by TS can reach up so high it endagners our national security) would fit in with - having 4 years to get it right. That part, of course, again, was influenced my Michael's religious views. Now, I know that the JW do not pick 2012- but Michael might have seen this as the dates he had in mind. Or maybe, 12-21-12 is more of a symblic date (signifying the end) which was then tied in in a more concrete manner into the clues of TII and the hoax. The four years, using inclusive reckoning, would extend from 2009 until 2012 (counting 2009 as year one- and 2012 as year 4)- as previously discussed.
Ohhh, you know I'd have to respond to the Witness comments :))) It's great for your hubby to be studying the Bible, now matter who with, because it is in doing that that we reach what we can discover as the truth we, individually, can accept. I did that with MANY religions.
I also still hear the Witnesses teachings in the songs. Most recently,Jackie's new single. It is about changing the world and prejudice. Jackie said on the online radio show last night, that he wanted some of Michael's words on the single to give reference to these ideas as they are things Michael stood for. He did add Michael's speaking. These are things Michael always sang about. They are JW teachings from the Bible. You can especially hear these in Can You Feel It. I wonder about various things though, as when Michael left the organization, he didn't do it because he no longer believed the teachings. That is why he continued to use his medium to preach these ideals. But, Witnesses are not into numerology. So, I don't really put a lot into that, with regards to Witnesses. But, I DO think that Michael is following the Elvis "script" and therefore, may have used numbers to either give clues or make it a copycat. This to me, don't give a reason for "4 years" though. Maybe it will be the end of Obama's first (maybe only)term. Maybe as he's the first black president, Michael, with the anti-prejudice ideals, don't want Obama to come out as a presidential failure, and the media run with that. Just an idea.
Anyway- this is just one theorie (as in hyothesis, not as in proven theorie) that's been swirling around in my mind.
Maybe, to be thorough, we should also look at why the FBI CANNOT be involved- to make sure we have a solid case for involvment. I already stated that I think they are. For arguments sake, I am not that great at numerology, so I would need some solid proof to show how it ties in (beyond the 33, the 12-21 release date of the file)- I can see that one could argue, FBI protection or involvment would make aderence to numerology more difficult. (even though, I am sure that if this went on for years, MJ had established some ammount of creative freedom in how he would pull this off).
I'm not sure yet about the FBI, but it's looking like involvement, especially to overcome some legalities with court and all. But, it don't have to be that way either. A lot of this is absorbed on faith for me. There are a lot of theories on here, and perhaps, trying hard enough, we could make any of them work. But, why? Either he'll come back and explain and we'll be right. Or he won't come back, and we'll still be right, he'll just have decided not to return for his own reasons. We just won't know what they are. But, he won't be dead in any reason. I can live without knowing as long as I believe he's alive. And I do.
-
The comments made by Joe in this tape are totally contradictory to every other account we have heard...from Joe himself and everyone else. The accounts given by everyone involved are at odds with each other most times.
Joe says that Elvis was found on the bed and that he had just gone upstairs to talk to him about something and found him not breathing.
Ijustcantstoplovingu wrote:
Joe says that Elvis was found on the bed and that he had just gone upstairs to talk to him about something and found him not breathing. since 1977 when Elvis died I always believed/remembered that he died in the bathroom! He was found on the bed not breathing like MJ WOW just the same!
i think maybe the bathroom factor is supposed to tie in with the drug use and too many peanut butter and banana sandwiches ;) . i remember reading some alledge autopsy detail of an impacted bowel. and the very last line in the book was the two guys talking and at the same time telling each other that elvis had cancer.Confirmed in the above video also
Sorry to go a bit of topic but Im like I never knew that Im sure it wasnt reported that way, I can remember the day Elvis died like yesterday and where I was and what I was doing.
Sorry guys gone a bit off topic but Im like
There is indeed much more to all this than it first appears.
Thank you TS for being here and leading us in the right direction.
I also believed that Elvis was found in the bathroom
sorry , got my post in the wrong place. don't know how to fix it so i highlighted it :oops:
-
Seems we're finding the light. Thanks TS, I love when you give us important answers.
I've always believed that the FBI help Michael, but I do not think that is a witness protection program, but only an agreement between them.
If it is, Michael can return with the same identity and security, it's right?
-
Seems we're finding the light. Thanks TS, I love when you give us important answers.
I've always believed that the FBI help Michael, but I do not think that is a witness protection program, but only an agreement between them.
If it is, Michael can return with the same identity and security, it's right?
Agree and IF Michael is some kind of secret agent in FBI, he doesn't need WPP.
-
Michael is not a secret agent. More as the FBI is protecting him in some sort of way. But who know with Michael. If Elvis was in the CIA , Michael can be in the FBI.. Nah.. I don't see Michael as an FBI agent. he is too delicate for that. Elvis was more built, and he also was in the army which is a plus. This is my opinion. Blessings.
-
ImConvinced: The Faction 2 info is something I've held onto for awhile and it's certainly important to know about. It could be why there's thought that people like Charlie Sheen know about MJ's hoax. They may or may not, but the connection could be because of membership in Faction 2. There are a couple more things I'd like to say about the FBI and/or Faction 2 connection but I fear it'll be ahead of the info that's supposed to be revealed right now...
There are ways to be involved with or learn about the Bureau without being an agent through Community Partnerships and Community Academies.
Want to find out first hand how the FBI works? Hear how the Bureau tracks down spies and terrorists? Learn how to collect and preserve evidence? See what it is like to fire a weapon and put yourself in the shoes of a Special Agent making a split-second, life-or-death decision?
If you are a leader in your community, you just might be able to do that and more––through an FBI Citizens’ Academy, open for business in all 56 of our field offices.
Who attends? Business, civic, and religious leaders, each nominated by a Bureau employee or a previous Academy graduate. You must be at least 21 years old (with no prior felony convictions) and must live and work in the area covered by the field office sponsoring the academy.
Who teaches? Special Agents in Charge of that field office, their senior managers and senior agent experts.
For how long? Classes generally meet 10 times (eight on weeknights and two on Saturday) for three hours each session. Each session has around 20-30 students.
The curriculum? Fascinating!
■Practical problems involving evidence collection and preservation.
■FBI jurisdiction and congressional oversight.
■Structure and operation of FBI field offices and satellite agencies.
■Fingerprint, forensic, technology, training, and other services
■Policies and issues: ethics, discipline, communications, drug enforcement, civil rights, and future criminal trends.
■Firearms training.
Community Partnerships
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/partnerships_and_outreach/community_outreach/comm_partners
-
i'm having a hard time with some things
if FBI are involved and MJ's in WPP then why a)have Murray in the mix at all
b) leave clues, would the FBI agree to this?
c) would the FBI bother with numerology, or let
MJ bother with it?
I never said WPP, others are saying that though. FBI is involved with much more than just WPP.
????????????? This "much more" is the answer to all our questions.......
MJ-FBI-end of the world????????? nooooooooooo, too much science -fiction
I can understand protection for MJ, but you make it sound like they have a bigger plan together, MJ and FBI.....don't know what to think
-
Wow. Finally I finished to read :) So much refreshing info!
TMZ posted a video with the title: Lindsay Judge claims TMZ is CIA
http://www.tmz.com/videos/ (http://www.tmz.com/videos/)
Back to topic; if MJ was framed and asked for help and protection, I believe that he was entitled to it as any citizen would.
Did MJ know too much?. What about the mafia connections?, what about the Malniks?
There are post in this forum giving a good resume on it.
-
GINAFELICIA » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:10 pm
TS_comments wrote:
MJhunny wrote:
i'm having a hard time with some things
if FBI are involved and MJ's in WPP then why a)have Murray in the mix at all
b) leave clues, would the FBI agree to this?
c) would the FBI bother with numerology, or let
MJ bother with it?
I never said WPP, others are saying that though. FBI is involved with much more than just WPP.
????????????? This "much more" is the answer to all our questions.......
MJ-FBI-end of the world????????? nooooooooooo, too much science -fiction
I can understand protection for MJ, but you make it sound like they have a bigger plan together, MJ and FBI.....don't know what to think
I agree
-
... Also since MJ was getting help from the FBI just like Elvis, Elvis still hasn't come back...just saying...I'm not saying he won't...but I'm saying why didn't Elvis come back?
Simple: when Elvis planned his "death", he had no plans to ever come back. But with MJ, he was planning his come back for years before his "death".
-
TS, I would be so much appreciated if you could answer my question about the numerology. I might have got it all wrong though. I'm confused about that. Thank you so much.
Anyway, some have questioned if the FBI would be involved in the numerology; and as I already mentioned, Elvis had governement help and also used numerology (including planning the death date to fit the numerology). So regardless of why, the fact is that they can include numerology--and in fact they already have done so with Elvis, so why not with MJ?
One thing that I am sure of with this hoax. THERE IS NO COINCIDENCE! I'm a little bit confused with this TS. Do you mean that FBI arranged the dates of the funeral and the memorial which perfectly fits with making 666 upside down to 999? Michael didn't arrange the dates and the numerology of the hoax? Then, FBI is giving us a message about illuminati?
-
This is sorta random but didn't Marlon wear a FBI cap on that Jacksons reality show? I wonder if he has some connection to the FBI. I've seen other people wear this hat so it could just be a coincidence but it's hard for me to believe that anything is exactly the way it appears.
-
I never said WPP, others are saying that though. FBI is involved with much more than just WPP.
????????????? This "much more" is the answer to all our questions.......
MJ-FBI-end of the world????????? nooooooooooo, too much science -fiction
I can understand protection for MJ, but you make it sound like they have a bigger plan together, MJ and FBI.....don't know what to think
In this context, the "much more" that I was referring to is other operations--more than just WPP. You can read about some of the other operations on Wikipedia, as well as their own website {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fbi; http://www.fbi.gov/}.
I first pointed to the FBI, then others started saying WPP. I responded by saying that FBI does much more than just WPP; therefore, just because the FBI is involved, does not mean that MJ is in WPP.
-
You said the FBI is involved with more than WPP, and to that, I would say WAY more. In fact, I have a theory, if anyone has time. :)
I haven't decided yet, whether all or some of the child molestation rhetoric and actual criminal charges were real or fabricated to provide MJ with a "cover", but, to be politic, I will pretend that all that was real and this just COINCIDENTALLY :roll: made MJ very visible as someone who...maaaaaybe might be interested in child trafficking...
We already know that everyone and their brother hits on wealthy people all the time for money, but THESE bastards are particularly helpful, providing a real and discreet service for the man with discriminating tastes and lots of money.
I have seen parents put action porno pix of their OWN children on a popular list "for a good time", and I KNOW I've only seen the tip of this filthy, rotten iceberg...
MJ, was a very high profile persona, rumored to have a taste for young boys---IN FACT, after his death, certain pedophiles campaigned to make MJ the poster boy for Nambla.This thought would attract every trafficker in the world to get in on a piece of his wealth. Suppose some creep solicited him and he contacted the FBI...
MJ could have been taking down pedophile traffickers for years! I NEVER bought the stories that he cancelled concerts because he had "a fainting spell" or was ill from drugs, and I posted this a few times before: We all KNOW MJ works a show to the end if he's throwing up, back injury, dying.
We have SEEN him, exhausted, dance like he's got The Red Shoes on, for another hour. He doesn't stop a show; he doesn't cancel shows(never mind that he did!!! He may have been extorted into it.)---the show must go on!
Yes he had cancelled shows and came on TV apologizing for "his weakness" so people wouldn't hate him, so people would try to have a heart for him, forgive him. I am convinced the only time he would cancel a show would be if the fans had been threatened in some way.
TPTB threatening to massacre a hundred thousand, here and there, in some random shows. If that was a show YOU had tickets for, MJ most probably saved YOUR LIFE that day. :o
NO lie.
He would NEVER scare us by telling us the reason. We would never know this---he's NOT going to glorify evil. He just keeps the secret, and heroicly PROTECTS... :)
But they must have figured out that it was MJ working undercover, when he actually WAS NEVER into sex with kids, but, doing stings for the Law. This child trafficking network is global and well connected. As parts of the evil were taken down, word must have gotten around that MJ was NOT actually pedophile, but police. Not a Black heart, but a Black NARK. :shock:
They began terrorizing him at his job, threatening to break him at the bank, smother his creativity in future endeavors, and physically harm his fans. BESIDES trafficking children. What is he to do?
Go under further. Underground. DEAD.
"Back" mentioned something, or linked to something once, about MJ coming back to us as a BLACK KNIGHT. I would say, if he has gone that far down, to actually stand in as a fake customer and see these child sex slaves, in order to bust their captors, he must be bawling all the time. Every single day just to wash his eyes of the tragedies.
But it makes sense. omg I believe he would do :!: ANYTHING :!: for children. Even subject himself to deep, seething hatred---from strangers, outside, those sheep believing the media lies that he's dirty, and, worse, from inside, coming from his own pure heart, just from what he's seen: horror upon horror which can't ever be undone, even though he's ended the perpetrators' actions...
Can anyone confirm or deny that this could be what Back may have meant about that Black Knight business? or do you think he was just being all mysterious and showbizzy, describing MJ's new STAGE look?
It is not this darkly serious, is it?
I know MJ is hero material. It is a golden thread through all he says, sings, writes or does. 8-) "He's the only one with the heart and power to do this", BJ said. One only needs heart and power for a great sacrificial leap. :?
I also know he wanted to be Knighted, once. But there's a HUGE difference in being "One Hot Knight" , dressed like a wraith or The Batman, in his show...and a real one endangering his own real life...Can anyone say if MJ isn't doing anything remotely this dangerous and psychologically draining?
This is serious heavy stuff. TOO serious for any ARG. It makes aLOT of sense, now, in light of this theory, that his usual bodyguards are no longer with him. The stated reason was, I think, that Miko and others would be recognized and lead people to MJ.
But, no... The Man needs ARMED backup, now. omg. :?
When will he ever be safe, then?
Tell me it is not this serious. :|
[/color][/b]
Which is very similar to what I posted above ( a page or so up) as a theorie- I think it's highly possibly- and as always,we have hints in Michael's music (Hollywood Tonight, Do You KNow Where Your Children are). Protecting children from trafficking, pornopgraphy, prostitution, and other sexual exploitation could be one such "other" activity that Michael shared with the FBI.
-
Which is very similar to what I posted above ( a page or so up) as a theorie- I think it's highly possibly- and as always,we have hints in Michael's music (Hollywood Tonight, Do You KNow Where Your Children are). Protecting children from trafficking, pornopgraphy, prostitution, and other sexual exploitation could be one such "other" activity that Michael shared with the FBI.
Right, and some of us, including me, have been saying this for months, not just on this thread. Posts about this very thing were part of the TIAI January 2 thread too and probably long before that so it looks like we're starting to connect the many fragments of thoughts we've all had for some time... connecting the dots now for a cohesive theory as well as finding things we missed or didn't clearly understand before and that's great!...
-
... Also since MJ was getting help from the FBI just like Elvis, Elvis still hasn't come back...just saying...I'm not saying he won't...but I'm saying why didn't Elvis come back?
Simple: when Elvis planned his "death", he had no plans to ever come back. But with MJ, he was planning his come back for years before his "death".
Absolutely- Elvis left no clues, per se. Michael, on the other hand left so much- starting with the Memorial Service, Funeral, TII, and "Michael." It's all like one big treasure map with clues. To disregard all these, would mean they are all coincidences- which we already agreed on they are not, correct? What would be the purpose of all the clues if you want to stay "dead." If Michael planned to stay dead- would it not be easier to have "died" from a simple heart attack and then be done with it? I just do not see Michael leaving his children unless it was absolutely necessary. Let's not forget their possible involvement (again: memorial, Oprah interview)- what would be the point to put them through all this if there was not hope that their Daddy was to return.
I think, Lisa did not know that her father had not passed until some time had passed- however, I think Michael had prepped his children before the event. Remember, he knew what it did to Lisa Marie to live with the hoax of her father's death- would he really agree to put his children through this? Unless it was absolutely necessary, served a greater good, protected himself and thus them, and he planned to stun the world by coming back.
-
TS, I would be so much appreciated if you could answer my question about the numerology. I might have got it all wrong though. I'm confused about that. Thank you so much.
Anyway, some have questioned if the FBI would be involved in the numerology; and as I already mentioned, Elvis had governement help and also used numerology (including planning the death date to fit the numerology). So regardless of why, the fact is that they can include numerology--and in fact they already have done so with Elvis, so why not with MJ?
One thing that I am sure of with this hoax. THERE IS NO COINCIDENCE! I'm a little bit confused with this TS. Do you mean that FBI arranged the dates of the funeral and the memorial which perfectly fits with making 666 upside down to 999? Michael didn't arrange the dates and the numerology of the hoax? Then, FBI is giving us a message about illuminati?
Elvis planned his own death date to add up: 8 + 16 + 1977 = 2001. This date was chosen by Elvis because of his own personal liking for the 2001 Space Odyssey film and theme song {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001:_A_Space_Odyssey_(film)}. The government cooperated with his plans for the death date and numerology, etc. I think you can see the MJ parallels here as well.
-
Currently, the FBI's top investigative priorities are:
1. Protect the United States from terrorist attack (see counter-terrorism);
2. Protect the United States against foreign intelligence operations and espionage (see counter-intelligence);
3. Protect the United States against cyber-based attacks and high-technology crimes (see cyber-warfare);
4. Combat public corruption at all levels;
5. Protect civil rights;
6. Combat transnational/national criminal organizations and enterprises (see organized crime);
7. Combat major white-collar crime;
8. Combat significant violent crime;
9. Support federal, state, local and international partners;
10. Upgrade technology for successful performance of the FBI's mission.
In August 2007, the top categories of lead criminal charges resulting from FBI investigations were:
1. Bank robbery and incidental crimes (107 charges)
2. Drugs (104 charges)
3. Attempt and conspiracy (81 charges)
4. Material involving sexual exploitation of minors (53 charges)
5. Mail fraud – frauds and swindles (51 charges)
6. Bank fraud (31 charges)
7. Prohibition of illegal gambling businesses (22 charges)
8. Fraud by wire, radio, or television (20 charges)
9. Hobbs Act (Robbery and extortion affecting interstate commerce) (17 charges)
10. Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO)-prohibited activities (17 charges)
Organization and Rank structure
The FBI is organized into five functional branches and the Office of the Director, which contains most administrative offices. Each branch is managed by an Executive Assistant Director. Each office and division within the branch is managed by an Assistant Director.
* Office of the Director
o Office of Congressional Affairs
o Office of Equal Employment Opportunity Affairs
o Office of the General Counsel
o Office of Integrity and Compliance
o Office of the Ombudsman
o Office of Professional Responsibility
o Office of Public Affairs
o Inspection Division
o Facilities and Logistics Services Division
o Finance Division
o Records Management Division
o Resource Planning Office
o Security Division
* National Security Branch
o Counterintelligence Division
o Counterterrorism Division
o Directorate of Intelligence
o Weapons of Mass Destruction Directorate
* Criminal, Cyber, Response, and Services Branch
o Criminal Investigative Division
o Cyber Division (Director: Gordon M Snow)
o Critical Incident Response Group
o Office of International Operations (Director: Joseph M. Demarest)
o Office of Law Enforcement Coordination
* Human Resources Branch
o Training Division
o Human Resources Division
* Science and Technology Branch
o Criminal Justice Information Services Division
o Laboratory Division
o Operational Technology Division
o Special Technologies and Applications Office
* Information and Technology Branch
o Information Technology Operations Division
o Office of IT Policy & Planning
o Office of IT Program Management
o Office of IT Systems Development
o Office of the Chief Knowledge Officer
The following is a complete listing of the rank structure found within the FBI;
* Probationary Agent
* Special Agent
* Senior Special Agent
* Supervisory Special Agent
* Assistant Special Agent-in-Charge (ASAC)
* Special Agent-in-Charge (SAC)
* Assistant Director
* Associate Executive Assistant Director
* Executive Assistant Director
* Deputy Chief of Staff
* Chief of Staff & Senior Counsel to the Director
* Associate Deputy Director
* Deputy Director
* Director
Personnel
As of December 31, 2009, the FBI had a total of 33,652 employees. That includes 13,412 special agents and 20,420 support professionals, such as intelligence analysts, language specialists, scientists, information technology specialists, and other professionals.
Hiring process
In order to apply to become an FBI agent, an applicant must be between the ages of 23 and 37. However, due to the decision in Robert P. Isabella v. Department of State and Office of Personnel Management, 2008 M.S.P.B. 146, preference eligible veterans may apply after age 37. The applicant must also hold American citizenship, have a clean record, and hold a four-year bachelors degree. All FBI employees require a Top Secret (TS) security clearance, and in many instances, employees need a higher level, TS/SCI clearance. After potential special agent candidates are cleared with TS clearance... ( wow I see many TS there)
-
TS, I would be so much appreciated if you could answer my question about the numerology. I might have got it all wrong though. I'm confused about that. Thank you so much.
Anyway, some have questioned if the FBI would be involved in the numerology; and as I already mentioned, Elvis had governement help and also used numerology (including planning the death date to fit the numerology). So regardless of why, the fact is that they can include numerology--and in fact they already have done so with Elvis, so why not with MJ?
One thing that I am sure of with this hoax. THERE IS NO COINCIDENCE! I'm a little bit confused with this TS. Do you mean that FBI arranged the dates of the funeral and the memorial which perfectly fits with making 666 upside down to 999? Michael didn't arrange the dates and the numerology of the hoax? Then, FBI is giving us a message about illuminati?
Elvis planned his own death date to add up: 8 + 16 + 1977 = 2001. This date was chosen by Elvis because of his own personal liking for the 2001 Space Odyssey film and theme song {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001:_A_Space_Odyssey_(film)}. The government cooperated with his plans for the death date and numerology, etc. I think you can see the MJ parallels here as well.
I know Elvis MJ prallels so well TS. Thank you so much. I got my answer. God bless. :D
-
Probably another coincidence.. LOL :lol: (the TS in the FBI post, I mean)
Organized crime (6) ties into child pornography and trafficking. As does violation of civil rights and violent crimes. And of course, we have the ever popular corruption that in itself ties to organized crime. With Michael's international connections and travels, I have been wondering if that is another thread to be tied in...
-
... Also since MJ was getting help from the FBI just like Elvis, Elvis still hasn't come back...just saying...I'm not saying he won't...but I'm saying why didn't Elvis come back?
Simple: when Elvis planned his "death", he had no plans to ever come back. But with MJ, he was planning his come back for years before his "death".
Absolutely- Elvis left no clues, per se.
Actually Elvis also left some clues behind like 2001 Space Odyssey film music like Michael 2040 Spaceship and also another parallel with Mj and Elvis is; both of their middle names were wrong. Michael's middle name is Joe but Joseph was used instead and also Elvis' middle name is Aron but the name written on his graveyard is Aaron. But like you wrote he didn't leave many clues behind as he didn't want to come back but Michael planned his come back long time ago like TS wrote. :)
-
... Also since MJ was getting help from the FBI just like Elvis, Elvis still hasn't come back...just saying...I'm not saying he won't...but I'm saying why didn't Elvis come back?
Simple: when Elvis planned his "death", he had no plans to ever come back. But with MJ, he was planning his come back for years before his "death".
Absolutely- Elvis left no clues, per se. Michael, on the other hand left so much- starting with the Memorial Service, Funeral, TII, and "Michael." It's all like one big treasure map with clues. To disregard all these, would mean they are all coincidences- which we already agreed on they are not, correct? What would be the purpose of all the clues if you want to stay "dead." If Michael planned to stay dead- would it not be easier to have "died" from a simple heart attack and then be done with it? I just do not see Michael leaving his children unless it was absolutely necessary. Let's not forget their possible involvement (again: memorial, Oprah interview)- what would be the point to put them through all this if there was not hope that their Daddy was to return.
I think, Lisa did not know that her father had not passed until some time had passed- however, I think Michael had prepped his children before the event. Remember, he knew what it did to Lisa Marie to live with the hoax of her father's death- would he really agree to put his children through this? Unless it was absolutely necessary, served a greater good, protected himself and thus them, and he planned to stun the world by coming back.
Your right but Elvis did kinda leave clues by using numerology.
-
Ok I didn't realize you were gonna go there TS. ;) I was trying to just stay on the subject of the paramedics but now that you opened up the direction of this to go towards the FBI being involved I am re-posting some info I have known about for a while now. I didn't want to get to ahead of the game, lol ...
[/color]
I brought the FBI in at this point for a few reasons, one of which was that people in this thread were already discussing possible government involvement. Also, I intentionally posted the beginning of this thread at 3:33, as a clue about the 333 pages of FBI files--intending to bring the FBI in at some point in this thread.
The biggest reason I brought the FBI in at this point, though, is something that seems to have gotten lost or set aside in all the discussion of the FBI and other things. So let's see if we can get back on track. If the FBI is involved: would they hire actors and rent an ambulance, or would they cooperate with the real LAFD paramedics and use the actual #71 ambulance from Bel Air?
-
Probably another coincidence.. LOL :lol: (the TS in the FBI post, I mean)
:lol: I saw a couple of TS on that page which were the short type of Top Secret. Actually TS is our Top Secret too as we do not know who he is. :)
I do not know if Michael is some kind of agent for FBI or just had an agreement with them but this just stood to me in the first place. It says that FBI gets professionals such as intelligence analysts, language specialists, scientists, information technology specialists, and other professionals. <== Other professionals like Pop Stars and film makers? Why not? Sounds so plausible to me. :)
-
Ok I didn't realize you were gonna go there TS. ;) I was trying to just stay on the subject of the paramedics but now that you opened up the direction of this to go towards the FBI being involved I am re-posting some info I have known about for a while now. I didn't want to get to ahead of the game, lol ...
[/color]
I brought the FBI in at this point for a few reasons, one of which was that people in this thread were already discussing possible government involvement. Also, I intentionally posted the beginning of this thread at 3:33, as a clue about the 333 pages of FBI files--intending to bring the FBI in at some point in this thread.
The biggest reason I brought the FBI in at this point, though, is something that seems to have gotten lost or set aside in all the discussion of the FBI and other things. So let's see if we can get back on track. If the FBI is involved: would they hire actors and rent an ambulance, or would they cooperate with the real LAFD paramedics and use the actual #71 ambulance from Bel Air?
What do you mean by cooperating with the LAPD paramedics? (like the FBI gets them involved or that the LAPD don't know anything and the FBI can't tell them so they just have to cooperate with them) , but because the FBI is higher in authority and says what goes, couldn't they just go either way.
Is there really a need to rent an ambulance when the FBI can fix up everything with no questions asked?
-
So how does the FBI fit with this?
by TS » Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:30 am
TIAI Revealed, Part 9: Today is 12-21-2009 (R49)
In this final part, we are going to be examining once again the “2012” film—especially as it relates to the concept of the end of the world on 12-21-2012, which is exactly three years from today. The “2012” movie story starts in the year 2009, and ends in 2012.
The “four years” that MJ mentioned in TII started in the spring of 2009 (when the “This Is It” concerts were in the planning stages); so we have already gone through the first year. You could also think of the four years as ending on 9-9-09, 10-10-10, 11-11-11, and 12-12-12 (ten day countdown to 12-21-12). Of course these are a little more than a year apart; but they are interesting numerology milestones in the four year process.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
“Can Ye Not Discern the Signs of the Times?”
Jesus said: “… ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?” (Matthew 16:3). Jesus also said: “… when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh [near], even at the doors. … Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.” (Mark 13:29-32).
So we don’t know the exact day or hour of the end of the world—maybe not even the exact year. But if we can “discern the signs of the times”, we should be able to know when it is near! The exact date of 12-21-2012 for the end of the world is fiction; it could happen on that date, but unlikely. However the end of the world being near is a very real concept, and not merely fiction. So let’s look at some of the “signs of the times”, which show that the end is near.
Speaking of fleeing at the end of time, Jesus said: “But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.” (Matthew 24:20,21). Did you know that 12-21-2012 will be the first day of winter (northern hemisphere)? And did you know that 12-21-2012 will be a Friday? And did you know that in the Bible, the Sabbath day begins at sunset on Friday?? Is it a coincidence, that both of the things which Jesus mentioned (winter and Sabbath) will begin on the same day that the Mayan calendar ends?
Again, this does not necessarily mean that the world will end on 12-21-2012; in fact, Jesus asked us to pray that we would not have to flee on that day. Nevertheless, the fact that all these things line up on the same day is almost certainly a clue (sign) that the end is near.
The NWO is another huge sign that the end is near. It was prophesied nearly 2,000 years ago in the book of Revelation; read the whole book, especially the last half—and most particularly Revelation chapters 17 & 18. Here are a couple verses: “These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them:” (17:13,14).
Also very well known, from the book of Revelation, is 666 and the mark of the beast (see Revelation 13 & 14). The mark is related to finances: “And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark …” (13:17).
Surely you know that USA has the largest economy in the world. But did you know that S&P 500 (not Dow) is “the most reliable measure of the broader market” {http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=7468215}? And did you know that the S&P 500 hit a low of 666 this year on 3-6-09 {http://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story.asp?StoryId=%7bD2687B35-8BC2-4AA9-A2D4-A004E3E15AF1%7d}; even the date is similar to 666 (subtract 3 from the last digit, and add it to the first digit). This was the bottom point in the worst US recession since the great depression; and in fact many people were calling it the verge of financial “Armageddon” (another end-of-the-world term from Revelation). What does this mean? Surely, it is another sign that the end is near.
Daniel 12:4 says that in “… the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.” Do we see that today? Travel on a major scale, the likes of which has never existed before in human history. And also there is increasing knowledge in many areas, never before known to man. In fact the internet, a major source of knowledge, has only come into normal household use in the last decade or two. Furthermore, the speed that we can now share information on the internet (through videos, pictures, etc) is something that we couldn’t do just a few years ago.
Another sign of the end is many natural disasters (see Matthew 24:7; Mark 13;8; Luke 21:11; etc). Did you know that earthquakes (along with other disasters) are on the increase? {http://earthquake.usgs.gov/}
As mentioned already (see R47), the Ark of the Covenant plays a major role near the end of time. Again, stayed tuned to TIAI for more info on the Ark; this will certainly happen well before 12-21-2012.
And what about the Mayan calendar ending on 12-21-2012, should we entirely dismiss this? Again, maybe nothing will happen on that exact day—perhaps not even in that year; but especially in light of all the other signs, it is pretty evident that the Mayans did not miss the end of the world by centuries, or even decades. Sometimes I think that the ancient civilizations had more true wisdom than modern man, with all his boasted technology and science.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
“The Son of Man Cometh at an Hour When Ye Think Not.”
“Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.” (Luke 12:40; see 12:46; Matthew 24:50). “… the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.” (1 Thessalonians 5:2,3; see Luke 17:26-30).
Different people have different concepts—even within Christianity—about the end of the world: when it will happen, how it will happen, etc. And other religions also have their concepts of the end of time. But most people in most religions are realizing that the world is on the verge of some major change; that is just too obvious to hide.
And for those who think that there will be at least seven more years before the end, be careful. Maybe there will be, but maybe not. Remember that the Jews—even Christ’s own disciples—thought that prophecy was yet to be fulfilled, before the Messiah would come; and yet the prophecy had already been fulfilled, and they didn’t recognize it (see Malachi 4:5; Matthew 17:10-13; etc).
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
“There Shall Come in the Last Days Scoffers”
“Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.” (2 Peter 3:3,4; see 3:5,6).
Scoffing is another major sign that the end is near. Just because there have been false alarms in the past, doesn’t mean that the real thing will never come. So don’t be too quick to join in with the scoffing attitude.
And don’t be over confident in what the media or scientists tell you (that it’s not the end of the world); often scientists are right, but they have also been wrong at times (see 1 Timothy 6:20).
Scientists were wrong in the days of Noah; they told everyone not to worry about any flood, because it had never rained before and “all things [would] continue as they were from the beginning of the creation” (see Genesis 2:5; 2 Peter 3:3-6). So of all the people in the antediluvian world: only eight refused to believe the scientists, and decided to get into the ark of safety.
Do you think that the flood is just a myth? Jesus took it literally, and used it as an example of how people would be at the end of the world: “And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.” (see Matthew 24:37-39; Hebrews 11:7; 1 Peter 3:20; 2 Peter 2:5; etc). Again, stay tuned to TIAI: and soon you will see abundant evidence that the flood of Noah literally happened—similar to the final scenes in the “2012” movie.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
This Is REALLY It!
The end of the world is near: whether you want it or not, whether you believe it or not, whether you’re ready or not—the end of the world is coming, soon and very soon! This is big; this is huge; this is colossal; in fact, it really doesn’t get any bigger than this!!! And once again, from the London press conference {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1znYaU0oeo&feature=PlayList&p=4337629E8ED55A02&index=4}: “This is it, I mean this is REALLY it; this is the final — this is the FINAL curtain call.”
As ignisaeternus just pointed out: "... it has been mentioned numerous times that the 333 pages were released o 12/21 (2009)- which of course is also time of the 911 call." {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=275#p313434}. Actually, they were released on 12-22-09; but 12-21 was the date that the 333 pages were supposed to be released, and it got delayed one day because of bad weather.
Anyway, some have questioned if the FBI would be involved in the numerology; and as I already mentioned, Elvis had governement help and also used numerology (including planning the death date to fit the numerology). So regardless of why, the fact is that they can include numerology--and in fact they already have done so with Elvis, so why not with MJ?
Anyone who has read the numerology posts already knows that 111 is the most fundamental number of the MJ hoax {see especially Update #4, http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=125&t=7010}. Along with almost all of the hoax numbers, 333 also divides evenly by 111. The chance of this being a coincidence is about 1 in 111.
However, planning to release these exact same 333 pages on 12-21, what are the odds that this was ALSO a coincidence? With 365 days in a year, it would be 1 chance in 365. Of course someone could say that there are more opportunities for a coincidence during the year, such as 11-5 (V); however, that date would not divide evenly by 111; and 1221 does divide evenly by 111. Also, 12:21 is the time of the 911 call. So there is no day of the year which would fit better to release the 333 pages, than on 12-21 (also the date of TIAI Revealed :) ).
Now what are the odds that the pages were 333 by coincidence, AND the planned release was 12-21 by coincidence? Multiply the two odds: 111 x 365 = one chance in 40,515 that this was just a coincidence. And if it's not a coincidence, then we know that the FBI are helping with the hoax--and we also know that they are including numerology, just like with Elvis.
Finally, what are the odds that the FBI funeral article with the "Thriller" graveyard would be dated on the anniversary of the MJ burial, just by coincidence--in addition to the above "coincidences" (333 & 12-21), and all the other "coincidences" (FBI cap, other numerology, etc)?
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/september/funeral-scams/financial-fraud-and-funeral-scams
Morning TS. I was reading all of the above and the question of how does TIAI part 9 fit in with the FBI pages came up. Hmm. If the goal of the hoax is to turn 666 into 999 and in biblical reference 666 is to do with world money systems then I am thinking that MJ's involvment with the FBI is about money laundering and ultimately, the planned introduction by NWO of the cashless society.
Rev13:16 He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to recieve a mark on his right hand or on his forehead 17] so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.
So we have biblical numerology [even in interpreting the name of the beast] end time NWO agenda of implementing a cashless world wide society and criminal money trails that would be of interest to FBI. We have heard non believers say to follow the money trail since the beginning of the hoax. Both Branca and Malnic have been reported to have involvment in past with off shore money laundering for the mafia (Malnic anyways). And as for the 333 [as in pages of FBI report] for me it's like God's seal of his own personal involvement. 333 is symbolic of the triune God, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit without whose help, this whole hoax would not have been able to be accomplished and also acknowledged and alluded to by the same graveyard used in the ressurection scene in TII. Thanks for the clues MJ.
-
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=300#p313461 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=300#p313461)
This is a response to the above comments.
I found this (see below) http://angelbabe43.wordpress.com/2011/0 ... death-bed/ (http://angelbabe43.wordpress.com/2011/03/16/high-ranking-bilderberg-mason-spills-the-beans-on-his-death-bed/) today while searching for something else but it does actually do a great job of explaining what I believe is also a reason for the
"We only have four years to get it right"-MJ. 8-)
When you take into account the fact that the NWO has been trying to get it's plot going full force for many years and it just transfers from one president to the next to pick up where the other presidents left off.
Passing the tourch to the next puppet to keep pressing on towards a One World Government/Religion. I believe we are now in a sort of final phase of the NWO's plans by using once again a President to implement the changes. President Obama was elected in 2008 and his term will end in 2012. The NWO has been trying very hard over the last 3 years to move the plan forward quickly. President Obama was a perfect choice for the NWO and he was chosen for a reason.
My belief is he was supposed to come across as a Savior of mankind especially considering the first part of chaos in 2008 with the housing crisis, which caused alot of panic and upset, then the people started to lose their jobs, more chaos. I believe the NWO used a black president as bait.
I say this because there has never been a black president before and the NWO used that to their advantage. I believe the people and especially blacks were so desperate for change after all the stress from the Bush administration, 9/11, all the chaos from the economy crashing, losing jobs, and homes that when Obama came on the scene it was bought hook, line and sinker; he was the man for the people.
He represented something important to black folks in the sense of them thinking they were finally getting ahead. All the black folks who never voted before were on the band wagon. I will be honest and say I was moved at first by his election but once I found out the truth I am pissed. How dare the NWO use the people like that and play on their emotions. President Obama was celebrated not only in America but globally.
Since his term began so many of our civil liberties have been taken away. Martial law was passed, the new health care reform is a sham (it actually is a repeat from Hitler's time), suspected terrorist are held indefinately with no court date ever in sight, our 2nd amendment of our right to bear arms is almost non existant except for the people who aren't giving up that right, the order out of chaos theory is in my opinion: Scare the crap out of the people by faking terrorist threats and fake attacks (blaming it on other countries when in fact it is our own Governments doing it to us) to the point of submission. The NWO comes in with the answers to our prayers, lol... 8-)
They tell us that it is for our security to tighten up rules and we end up losing our freedoms and the weak don't question it and they just sheepishly go along with it.
http://angelbabe43.wordpress.com/2011/0 ... death-bed/ (http://angelbabe43.wordpress.com/2011/03/16/high-ranking-bilderberg-mason-spills-the-beans-on-his-death-bed/)
HIGH RANKING BILDERBERG MASON SPILLS THE BEANS ON HIS DEATH-BED
Posted by angelbabe43 on March 16, 2011
http://www.freestatevoice.com.au/politi ... -death-bed (http://www.freestatevoice.com.au/politics/item/592-high-ranking-bilderberg-mason-spills-the-beans-on-his-death-bed)
An Oil Tycoon – a high ranking Bilderberg Mason is terminally ill in the USA. He opened his remorseful heart to Pastor Lindsay Williams lastweek. He told him some of the plotted events coming for us all in the next year or so before the take over of the New World Order whereby we will be ruled by China, the yellow skinned race.
But of course the Real Rulers are the Illuminati Bankers who will remain in the shadows as the Chinese take over as the front stage men! This is what he said which also includes other revelations and facts given to us by the alternative media which is not masonically controlled.
1 – Strike on Iran within 2 years and will spread everywhere!
2 – US Dollar will be definitely dead by 2012 – currencies will be
worthless as THEY usher in the new One World Currency. The world as we know it now will be completely different in 2012. Disruption of currencies plotted so pull your money out of the Banks, spend it NOW!
“China are the strong ones” – China are the New World Order
Leaders with America reduced to Third World status! Timothy Geithner of the US Treasury speaks fluent Chinese! (KEVIN RUDD SPEAKS MANDARIN ALSO. ED.) Within 2 years we will not recognize America. The Elites have altered their Time Line. After 2 years we will be so poor, we will not be able to rebel!
3 - Gold and Silver is all you can rely on – convert your assets and
cash to Gold ASAP – Urgent. Don’t hang around because the Illuminati are going to crash the banks further very soon. We are entering into a depression whereby we are ALL going to be utterly poor within two years from now – peasant attitude and peasant way of life.. Don’t depend on Real Estate, Assets!
4 – Crude Oil will be $150 – $200 per barrel in the next few months!
5 - Banks to orchestrate the Mortgage Banking Crisis which will be
covered by the Act passed by US Congress two weeks ago enabling Banks to take over HOMES without the Deeds. If you have a Mortgage, pay it off NOW or sell your home to enable you to pay for a home completely – even if you have to buy a shack. Make sure your humble abode is PAID for – millions will lose their homes!
6 – Obama Health Care Bill is a Control Tool written by the Banks and implemented by the Insurance Companies! It is Government Take Over – gun control, euthanasia etc hidden in this Bill.
7 - US Govt gave China the Panama Canal many years ago – a Council of Foreign Relations (CFR) and Tri Lateral Commission (TriLats) strategy!
8 – China owns all the Greek Ports!
9 – China owns 90% of all Rare Earth Minerals – components for
Technology, Weapons etc.
China makes 80% of weapon components for the US Military. US is
at the Mercy of China!
10 – China is the largest extractor of Natural Mineral Resources,
worldwide. They do more than half of the mining in Australia. China is mining in Africa, US, Middle East, Canada! China has a 90% monopoly over all the Rare Earth Minerals!
11 – China is trading in all currencies, making them Flush with Cash so they can buy/sell in any currency.
12 – Russia is the biggest producer of Oil and Gas. We must watch China and Russia. American will never win a war against them because the US have moved all its’ manufacturing industry to China!
13 - The Elites, Globalists want a Middle East Crisis within a few
months. Goldman Sachs Bank, the IMF and City Bank are already in Iran – they have gone in the back door so to speak in order to cripple it financially before THEY strike. It is also noteworthy to be aware that US/Europe have sold computers with worms (viruses) to Iran – a deliberate stroke. So we see Iran being set up like Iraq – preparations are under way for a STRIKE against Iran within months!
14 – The Devil’s Messiah Project. The terminally ill tycoon said:
“we had to get rid of God to bring in the New World Order. He said that the Devil’s Messiah means total perversion because THEY (Illuminati) cannot bring the Devil’s Messiah to a Righteous People (a Godly people)!" So now we know why homosexuality, abortion, euthanasia, pornography, unchaste dress, witchcraft is being basically forced upon mankind – in preparation for the arrival of the Anti Christ!!!
15 – The Illuminati are pushing the system for a One World Religion.
The National Council of Churches (World Council of Churches) is
financed by these Masonic organisations – the Rockefeller, Carnegie and Ford Foundations. It is interesting to note that Faith Communities are a Key Factor with regard to the False Ecumenism pushed by these Councils and Foundations. Clergy Based Initiatives have taken over most of the churches in the US. The mind boggles when you reflect how the Faith Initiative At Your Word Lord was stringently pushed in parts of the US, Ireland and especially in the Westminster Archdiocese! Such Faith Initiatives only leads to an ALL INCLUSIVE Church! Enough said, folks!
16 - Ordinances (local rulings) have been passed in some Counties in the US which empowers the County Sheriffs to come and padlock a church if just ONE complaint is made against that church (pastor) for speaking out against homosexuality, dress code etc! They are bringing in these Ordinances to shut down churches outside any process of law – just like China!
17 – “We must have our own National Media to bring about the New World Order!” – which they have already – a masonically corporately owned media Civilisation is being collapsed by design. Elites control China and Russia as well as the US President and Congress. Congress are going to try and ram through the Cyber Security Act and the Carbon Tax Act. The US Taxpayer will be asked to bail out the Mortgage Backed Security Crisis which will give around 3 Trillion to the Big Banks. The Big Banks are snapping up the small banks who are trying to rescue our economies but the Big Boys, the Jewish Illuminati who are the Mega Global Exchangers are having NONE of it. The Name of the Game is CONTROL – to control your money, your home, your car – your whole life!
Order out of Chaos – to bring about a full spectrum of world dominance!
My evidence regarding what I said above. All of this info I have known about since last year when I started my hoax adventure. This where I went on the hunt for answers. 8-)
IT IS NOW OFFICIAL - THE U.S. IS A POLICE STATE
[youtube:3msm1tnw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_ImuY5aZ-4[/youtube:3msm1tnw]
Americans have been losing the protection of law for years. In the 21st century the loss of legal protections accelerated with the Bush administrations war on terror, which continues under the Obama administration and is essentially a war on the Constitution and U.S. civil liberties.
The Bush regime was determined to vitiate habeas corpus in order to hold people indefinitely without bringing charges. The regime had acquired hundreds of prisoners by paying a bounty for terrorists. Afghan warlords and thugs responded to the financial incentive by grabbing unprotected people and selling them to the Americans.
The Bush regime needed to hold the prisoners without charges because it had no evidence against the people and did not want to admit that the U.S. government had stupidly paid warlords and thugs to kidnap innocent people. In addition, the Bush regime needed terrorists prisoners in order to prove that there was a terrorist threat.
As there was no evidence against the detainees (most have been released without charges after years of detention and abuse), the U.S. government needed a way around U.S. and international laws against torture in order that the government could produce evidence via self-incrimination. The Bush regime found inhumane and totalitarian-minded lawyers and put them to work at the U.S. Department of Justice (sic) to invent arguments that the Bush regime did not need to obey the law.
The Bush regime created a new classification for its detainees that it used to justify denying legal protection and due process to the detainees. As the detainees were not U.S. citizens and were demonized by the regime as the 760 most dangerous men on earth, there was little public outcry over the regimes unconstitutional and inhumane actions.
As our Founding Fathers and a long list of scholars warned, once civil liberties are breached, they are breached for all. Soon U.S. citizens were being held indefinitely in violation of their habeas corpus rights.
......
This shows how far the police state has advanced. A presidential appointee in the Obama administration tells an important committee of Congress that the executive branch has decided that it can murder American citizens abroad if it thinks they are a threat.
I can hear readers saying the government might as well kill Americans abroad as it kills them at home Waco, Ruby Ridge, the Black Panthers.
Yes, the U.S. government has murdered its citizens, but Dennis Blairs defined policy is a bold new development. The government, of course, denies that it intended to kill the Branch Davidians, Randy Weavers wife and child, or the Black Panthers. The government says that Waco was a terrible tragedy, an unintended result brought on by the Branch Davidians themselves. The government says that Ruby Ridge was Randy Weavers fault for not appearing in court on a day that had been miscommunicated to him. The Black Panthers, the government says, were dangerous criminals who insisted on a shootout.
In no previous death of a U.S. citizen by the hands of the U.S. government has the government claimed the right to kill Americans without arrest, trial, and conviction of a capital crime.
In contrast, Dennis Blair has told the U.S. Congress that the executive branch has assumed the right to murder Americans who it deems a threat.
What defines threat? Who will make the decision? What it means is that the government will murder whomever it chooses.
There is no more complete or compelling evidence of a police state than the government announcing that it will murder its own citizens if it views them as a threat.
Ironic, isnt it, that the war on terror to make us safe ends in a police state with the government declaring the right to murder American citizens whom it regards as a threat.
Full article:
http://original.antiwar.com/roberts/201 ... ice-state/ (http://original.antiwar.com/roberts/2010/02/09/us-is-a-police-state/)
INFOWARS.com
PrisonPlanet.com
PrisonPlanet.TV
The Truth About Health Care Bill- Unconstitutional, Federal power grab, NO PRIVACY
[youtube:3msm1tnw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RxKFkyt-I0[/youtube:3msm1tnw]
THE TRUTH ABOUT THE HEALTH CARE BILL
If you only read 9 paragraphs about the proposed health care reform Act, H.R. 3200, please let it be the article below by Michael Connelly. The article is also available at the link attached at the end of the article. Professor Connelly is a retired attorney, former Officer in the U.S. Army, published author and Constitutional Law Instructor.
http://www.michaelconnelly.viviti.com/e ... lth-care-b (http://www.michaelconnelly.viviti.com/entries/general/the-truth-about-the-health-care-b)ills The Truth About the Health Care Bill
To begin with, much of what has been said about the law and its implications is in fact true, despite what the Democrats and the media are saying.. The law does provide for rationing of health care, particularly where senior citizens and other classes of citizens are involved, free health care for illegal immigrants, free abortion services, and probably
forced participation in abortions by members of the medical profession.
The Bill will also eventually force private insurance companies out of business and put everyone into a government run system. All decisions about personal health care will ultimately be made by federal bureaucrats and most of them will not be health care professionals. Hospital admissions, payments to physicians, and allocations of necessary medical devices will be strictly controlled. However, as scary as all of that is, it just scratches the surface. In fact, I have concluded that this legislation really has no
intention of providing affordable health care choices. Instead it is a convenient cover for the most massive transfer of power to the Executive Branch of government that has ever occurred, or even been contemplated.
You can also forget about the right to privacy. That will have been legislated into oblivion regardless of what the 3rd and 4thAmendments may provide. If you decide not to have healthcare insurance or if you have private insurance that is not deemed "acceptable" to the "Health Choices Administrator" appointed by Obama there will be a tax imposed on you. It is called a "tax" instead of a fine because of the intent to avoid application of the due process clause of the 5th Amendment. However, that doesn't work because since there is nothing in the law that allows you to contest or appeal the imposition of the tax, it is definitely depriving someone of property without the "due process of law.
I could write many more pages about this legislation, but I think you get the idea. This is not about health care; it is about seizing power and limiting rights. Article 6 of the Constitution requires the members of both houses of Congress to "be bound by oath or affirmation" to support the Constitution. If I was a member of Congress I would not be able to vote for this legislation or anything like it without feeling I was violating that sacred oath or affirmation. If I voted for it anyway I would hope the American people would hold me accountable. For those who might doubt the nature of this threat, I suggest they consult the source. Here is a link to the Constitution:
http://www(dot (http://www(dot))archives(dot)gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html
http://www(dot (http://www(dot))archives (dot)gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html
And another to the Bill of Rights:
http://www(dot (http://www(dot))archives.(dot)gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript....
http://www(dot (http://www(dot))archives(dot)gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.html
There you can see exactly what we are about to have taken from us."
Michael Connelly
Retired attorney,
Constitutional Law Instructor
Carrollton, Texas
http://www.michaelconnelly.viviti.com/e ... lth-care-b (http://www.michaelconnelly.viviti.com/entries/general/the-truth-about-the-health-care-b)ills
Foreign Troops in Calif on Martial Law Standby
[youtube:3msm1tnw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msrBpwVvwdc[/youtube:3msm1tnw]
H1N1 Quarantine Martial Law FEMA camps Microchips MUST SEE!!
[youtube:3msm1tnw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0gHnspMnBA[/youtube:3msm1tnw]
U.S. Soldiers Rebel Against Martial Law Orders! Twitter: AngelicStarseed
[youtube:3msm1tnw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmmMUK4S8jE[/youtube:3msm1tnw]
-
Ok I didn't realize you were gonna go there TS. ;) I was trying to just stay on the subject of the paramedics but now that you opened up the direction of this to go towards the FBI being involved I am re-posting some info I have known about for a while now. I didn't want to get to ahead of the game, lol ...
[/color]
I brought the FBI in at this point for a few reasons, one of which was that people in this thread were already discussing possible government involvement. Also, I intentionally posted the beginning of this thread at 3:33, as a clue about the 333 pages of FBI files--intending to bring the FBI in at some point in this thread.
The biggest reason I brought the FBI in at this point, though, is something that seems to have gotten lost or set aside in all the discussion of the FBI and other things. So let's see if we can get back on track. If the FBI is involved: would they hire actors and rent an ambulance, or would they cooperate with the real LAFD paramedics and use the actual #71 ambulance from Bel Air?
Ok sorry for the long posts on that and the one I just prepared/posted having not seen this until just now. My bad. I have alot I want to say and have not until now. I will get back to the original subject.
Thanks for the answer.
Peace
-
I'm reading FBI's page right now and please let me share some of the things I've found. These may have nothing to do with Michael's case OR they can be the case itself. So we'd better read these all.
FBI Resources for Helping Victims
The Office for Victim Assistance (OVA) is responsible for ensuring that victims of crimes investigated by the FBI are afforded the opportunity to receive the services and notification as required by federal law and the Attorney General Guidelines on Victim and Witness Assistance (2005). The OVA manages the day-to-day operational aspects of the Victim Assistance Program (VAP) in the 56 FBI field office across the country as well as the FBI’s international offices. In addition, the OVA is responsible for providing training and information that helps to equip FBI agents and other FBI personnel to work effectively with victims.
Victim Notification System
The FBI is a partner with the U.S. Attorneys’ Offices and the Federal Bureau of Prisons in the automated Victim Notification System (VNS). VNS is designed to provide victims with information about their cases. This free, computer-based system provides two important services to victims: information and notification. This information is available in English and Spanish. VNS can inform about scheduled court proceedings and about an offender’s custody status, such as placement in community corrections centers, furlough, release, or death.
The FBI’s victim specialist should be in contact with victims during the investigation stage of the case. Notifications which may be provided include the arrest of a suspect and scheduling of a release hearing, whether the case is being referred to state or local authorities, and when a case may be administratively closed. Victims will need to register with the FBI office handling their case. They will receive a Victim Identification Number (VIN) and a Personal Identification Number (PIN) that will allow them to access the VNS system. VNS now has an Internet-based website that can be found at http://www.notify.usdoj.gov (http://www.notify.usdoj.gov).
-
Ok I didn't realize you were gonna go there TS. ;) I was trying to just stay on the subject of the paramedics but now that you opened up the direction of this to go towards the FBI being involved I am re-posting some info I have known about for a while now. I didn't want to get to ahead of the game, lol ...
[/color]
I brought the FBI in at this point for a few reasons, one of which was that people in this thread were already discussing possible government involvement. Also, I intentionally posted the beginning of this thread at 3:33, as a clue about the 333 pages of FBI files--intending to bring the FBI in at some point in this thread.
The biggest reason I brought the FBI in at this point, though, is something that seems to have gotten lost or set aside in all the discussion of the FBI and other things. So let's see if we can get back on track. If the FBI is involved: would they hire actors and rent an ambulance, or would they cooperate with the real LAFD paramedics and use the actual #71 ambulance from Bel Air?
I would think if the FBI are involved and if it really was a matter of protecting people including Michael from great danger, whatever type it may be I am unsure, or investigating something extremely serious, then they would be the higher "authority" so to speak and because of this maybe the FBI did have the cooperation of the LAFD as it was something so serious. So if the real ambo officers were used in the picture then they of course would be sworn to secrecy if the FBI were involved.
On the other hand...just throwing this out there.....maybe the ambo officers are actually FBI agents in a staged shot? We can't see their faces afterall.
-
When I was searching for Witness Protection Program, I found out that some of the states have their own WPP. This is California Witness Protection Program. And Michael is definitely not in WPP.
State of California Department of Justice / Office of the Attorney General
California Witness Protection Program
The California Witness Protection Program provides protection of witnesses and their families, friends, or associates who are endangered due to ongoing or anticipated testimony in gang, organized crime, or narcotic trafficking cases or in other cases that have a high degree of risk to the witness. The CWPP reimburses California's District Attorneys for expenses incurred by agencies during the protection of witnesses.
http://caag.state.ca.us/cbi/content/protection.htm (http://caag.state.ca.us/cbi/content/protection.htm)
How Witness Protection Works
.......... The Federal Witness Security Program is intended for crucial witnesses, like Tolomeo, whose prospective testimony puts them in immediate danger. Since its inception in 1970, more than 7,500 witnesses and more than 9,500 witness family members have entered the program and have been protected, relocated and given new identities by the U.S. Marshals Service.
In this article, we'll look at how the U.S. Department of Justice erases the old identities of important witnesses and places them in a city where they are not likely to be recognized, with new names and new lives. The most important rule of the program is that witnesses must not make contact with former associates or unprotected family members. They also must not return to the town from which they were relocated.
-
Ok I didn't realize you were gonna go there TS. ;) I was trying to just stay on the subject of the paramedics but now that you opened up the direction of this to go towards the FBI being involved I am re-posting some info I have known about for a while now. I didn't want to get to ahead of the game, lol ...
[/color]
I brought the FBI in at this point for a few reasons, one of which was that people in this thread were already discussing possible government involvement. Also, I intentionally posted the beginning of this thread at 3:33, as a clue about the 333 pages of FBI files--intending to bring the FBI in at some point in this thread.
The biggest reason I brought the FBI in at this point, though, is something that seems to have gotten lost or set aside in all the discussion of the FBI and other things. So let's see if we can get back on track. If the FBI is involved: would they hire actors and rent an ambulance, or would they cooperate with the real LAFD paramedics and use the actual #71 ambulance from Bel Air?
If the FBI is truly involved with all this, I can't see them hiring actors and renting an ambulance.....even in Hollywood. That would open themselves up to a lack of security within whatever operation they were running. Any outsider would pose a security risk. Things would have to be kept very tight and done from within. That being said, even working with the LAFD would have created questions. Security would have had to have been top priority. The fact that the ambulance driver couldn't turn around should prove it was someone other than LAFD at the wheel.
Blessings
-
The fact that the ambulance driver couldn't turn around should prove it was someone other than LAFD at the wheel.
Blessings
Would we have to consider then the paramedics not being paramedics and Doc Murray not being Doc Murray? Would we have to consider NPG not to be NPG and Harvey not to be Harvey?
Are FBI green guys and CIA red guys or would we find green and red amongst both orgs?
Are we heading towards Laurel Cyn?
-
I brought the FBI in at this point for a few reasons, one of which was that people in this thread were already discussing possible government involvement. Also, I intentionally posted the beginning of this thread at 3:33, as a clue about the 333 pages of FBI files--intending to bring the FBI in at some point in this thread.
Actually on my computer I see the original post was made at 11:33, 8 hours difference :?
People started to discuss government implication not because of the hour and minute of the original post, but because it looked like the only logical answer in the context of the paramedics discussion.
The biggest reason I brought the FBI in at this point, though, is something that seems to have gotten lost or set aside in all the discussion of the FBI and other things. So let's see if we can get back on track. If the FBI is involved: would they hire actors and rent an ambulance, or would they cooperate with the real LAFD paramedics and use the actual #71 ambulance from Bel Air?
Both ways are risky IMO.
Both ways imply the same number of LAFD people who would have to know there is something going on.
In the first case LAFD shoud be notified of the operation, even if not in detail. So they would have to know, and the same goes for the actors involved.
So the number of people "in the know" would be double.
That's why I would go for the second choise.
Of course we have a third choise, that they used FBI agents instead of paid actors.
-
Latest FBI news...................
I know we have brought up the possibility of Mafia involvement and the people that surrounded MJ, especially in the last few years. We all know that Tommy Mottola has Mafia ties....and in the FBI files, they talk about the threats made against MJ and the president, over Janet..
14 Gambino Crime Family Members and Associates Plead Guilty International
Tuesday, 11 January 2011 13:19
NEW YORK - The United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York announced the guilty pleas of all 14 members and associates of the Gambino Organized Crime Family of La Cosa Nostra (the "Gambino Family") who were charged in Manhattan federal court in April 2010 with crimes including racketeering, murder, sex trafficking, extortion, and wire fraud.
What about all the death threats made against MJ by Thomne Thomne??? Isn't he a wanted man for extortion in Lebanon????
Could all this be about Thomne Thomne ?????????
http://justpiper.com/2011/01/fbi-charge ... s-charged/ (http://justpiper.com/2011/01/fbi-charges-26-gambino-crime-family-leaders-la-cosa-nostra-families-in-four-districts-charged/)
-
Jones under Multi-Levels Investigations due to Jackson’s Death
Frank Paul Jones the alias Frank Paul Gambino is under investigations by a multi-level of law enforcement agencies. On 22 December 2009 the bombshell fell as TMZ.com released FBI documents containing over 190 pages of investigation documents concerning an alleged plot by Frank Paul Jones to whack Michael Jackson over money owed in a secret business deal and a 50% stake in his estate.
When this bombshell first surfaced it seemed that the investigation was over, however after a better observation of current events it appears that this investigation has been ongoing for the last year, and what happened was that TMZ.com got a hold to information that was an on-going situation.
Jones who was found indigent by the court feels that they are trying to tie him to criminal activities beyond the Michael Jackson’s death and that he was illegally interrogated, in the County of Highlands, Florida., after being falsely arrested. Jones feels that are trying to take him down, but the problem is he is already down and out for the count. As he puts it, “I have nothing but a small two bedroom home still in probate and am the agent of some commercial property, as I depend on disability to live.” Yet the government is using high tech angles such as wiretapping and deep cover agents as well as doctors and lawyers to crack a code that does not exist.
Jones contends, “I know people who do bad things, however that does not make me a co-conspirator.” Since the run in with the law in 1991-94, he has not even been convicted of a misdemeanor, but now they want to treat this case of an alleged DUI as if he is a career criminal. Jones believes the investigations being carried out now are clandestine, for several reasons and feels the witch hunt must come to an end.
Jones who has several psychiatric diagnoses, one being Bi-Polar states that the threats he allegedly made may have been as a result of his disorder and not Organized Crime Connections. Admitting he may have been obsessed with John J. Gotti and the Gambino Family and yes was raised in GambinoTerritory as a child in New York City. And, yes his parents may have been engaged in Mafia Criminal activities as well during his childhood, but that does not make him a co-conspirator or a RICO Act candidate. Stating both his parents and John J. Gotti are deceased, and he is not responsible for knowing what he knows or what they did in the past. Frank Paul Jones aka Frank Paul Gambino feels that these recent developments and interrogations into his medical records and personal life is not the work of the Obama Administration or Eric Holder the Attorney General or even the FBI at this point. This is not the work of the Secret Service. This is the work of Hillbillies and interlopers trying to make a name for them.
Frank Paul Jones aka Frank Paul Gambino Productions and the Capstone Zulu Band, states for once and for all, “I had nothing to do with the death of Michael Jackson, or do I believe he is dead. The Federal Government knows this and these investigations and interrogations are futile. “I love America and am a law abiding citizen and any money used to investigate me is money wasted.”
http://hubpages.com/hub/Jones-under-Mul ... sons-Death (http://hubpages.com/hub/Jones-under-Multi-Levels-Investigations-due-to-Jacksons-Death)
-
TS, so when the FBI does a sting operation or works undercover they have to make sure everything looks legit, for the enemy to be convinced, thus actual 71 ambulance and FT, and their paramedics. When you say they cooperate with the LAPD, are they working as a team on a classified case that only the ones on the top really know what's going on, and everything is carried out according to the code book and their training, and nothing is leaked. If this situation is similar to Elvis' then the FBI are carrying out this death hoax according to MJ's plans--meaning he is the brain-child (the numerology reaches back to his early years) and fulfilling his dream for The Greatest Show on Earth, but they will get their man (crooks) by providing the mechanics, legal and physical protection. Sounds like a marriage made in heaven!
Then Michael is one of the 20,420 support professionals, in his case--entertainment business expert.
TS, just wondering if you have any tangible proof that the FBI really are the good guys, the defenders of good. (Is Faction 2 real according to you?) We've had so much info on CIA, Illuminati, NWO showing evil intentions and actions. How could a US government basically run by Illuminati/Bilderbergs/CIA/Freemasons (more names) since it's inception in 1776, even tolerate an organization that purposes to watch/correct/overthrow it. Why would they not have wiped it out or infiltrated it long ago and replaced its leadership with sabateurs. Or does the FBI somehow have God's special protection and authority and the enemy simply gave up trying to destroy it. In the Biblical scenario specifically Revelation, we see only two parties --Anti-Christ group and authentic Christ group that will fight it out, and of course good triumphs. But Satan is a master of disguise, disguised as a messenger of light, if it were possible deceiving even the elect or chosen ones. So it can be almost impossible to tell who's who.
Well 2012 can't be the end of the world, something needs to happen in 2040 according to MJ, though he'll be 82. Seems to me that even if it's a change in leadership or major clean-up of big crime like the mafia, that human nature tends toward greed and power, and over time whole new generations of new diabolical crimes with their perpetrators will spread everywhere like wildfire. Only God can stablize the hearts of man and turn their hearts towards good and love. Old and New Testaments describe the One God will send to represent Him to rule with a rod of iron. If this isn't really the end of the Biblical age, then it's just another historical chapter like the abolition of slavery, which was great but evil still continued.
I didn't understand or see about TS posting at 3:33 to tie in with the 333 pages of FBI report on MJ. But Gina did post at that time.
by GINAFELICIA » Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:33 am
ItsHer I don't even know what to say.
Your theory doesn't sound too crazy ?
You think Michael could have bought their silence on such a big thing like his faked death?
No......all these are toooooooo unrealistic.
But if we go back to the old theories of the CIA involvement, than I think everyhting falls in place.
They have the power to set up such an illusion, given the required involvement of so many public services - LAFD, LAPD, UCLA, the coroner, the court of laws and what did I miss?
-
I brought the FBI in at this point for a few reasons, one of which was that people in this thread were already discussing possible government involvement. Also, I intentionally posted the beginning of this thread at 3:33, as a clue about the 333 pages of FBI files--intending to bring the FBI in at some point in this thread.
The biggest reason I brought the FBI in at this point, though, is something that seems to have gotten lost or set aside in all the discussion of the FBI and other things. So let's see if we can get back on track. If the FBI is involved: would they hire actors and rent an ambulance, or would they cooperate with the real LAFD paramedics and use the actual #71 ambulance from Bel Air?
I think it makes more sense for the FBI to cooperate with the LAFD paramedics, they have the authority to do so and it would explain why the people involved can keep silent about this story and of course the event looks more authentic. Now i'm thinking that the less the people see and know the hows, the better. So i thought that maybe FBI agents "played" the paramedics and requisitioned the real ambulance? I also say that because of the way the driver of the ambulance maneuvered it, if it has not been done on purpose, then i would question if he's really a paramedic.
-
Jones under Multi-Levels Investigations due to Jackson’s Death
Frank Paul Jones the alias Frank Paul Gambino is under investigations by a multi-level of law enforcement agencies. On 22 December 2009 the bombshell fell as TMZ.com released FBI documents containing over 190 pages of investigation documents concerning an alleged plot by Frank Paul Jones to whack Michael Jackson over money owed in a secret business deal and a 50% stake in his estate.
When this bombshell first surfaced it seemed that the investigation was over, however after a better observation of current events it appears that this investigation has been ongoing for the last year, and what happened was that TMZ.com got a hold to information that was an on-going situation.
Jones who was found indigent by the court feels that they are trying to tie him to criminal activities beyond the Michael Jackson’s death and that he was illegally interrogated, in the County of Highlands, Florida., after being falsely arrested. Jones feels that are trying to take him down, but the problem is he is already down and out for the count. As he puts it, “I have nothing but a small two bedroom home still in probate and am the agent of some commercial property, as I depend on disability to live.” Yet the government is using high tech angles such as wiretapping and deep cover agents as well as doctors and lawyers to crack a code that does not exist.
Jones contends, “I know people who do bad things, however that does not make me a co-conspirator.” Since the run in with the law in 1991-94, he has not even been convicted of a misdemeanor, but now they want to treat this case of an alleged DUI as if he is a career criminal. Jones believes the investigations being carried out now are clandestine, for several reasons and feels the witch hunt must come to an end.
Jones who has several psychiatric diagnoses, one being Bi-Polar states that the threats he allegedly made may have been as a result of his disorder and not Organized Crime Connections. Admitting he may have been obsessed with John J. Gotti and the Gambino Family and yes was raised in GambinoTerritory as a child in New York City. And, yes his parents may have been engaged in Mafia Criminal activities as well during his childhood, but that does not make him a co-conspirator or a RICO Act candidate. Stating both his parents and John J. Gotti are deceased, and he is not responsible for knowing what he knows or what they did in the past. Frank Paul Jones aka Frank Paul Gambino feels that these recent developments and interrogations into his medical records and personal life is not the work of the Obama Administration or Eric Holder the Attorney General or even the FBI at this point. This is not the work of the Secret Service. This is the work of Hillbillies and interlopers trying to make a name for them.
Frank Paul Jones aka Frank Paul Gambino Productions and the Capstone Zulu Band, states for once and for all, “I had nothing to do with the death of Michael Jackson, or do I believe he is dead. The Federal Government knows this and these investigations and interrogations are futile. “I love America and am a law abiding citizen and any money used to investigate me is money wasted.”
http://hubpages.com/hub/Jones-under-Mul ... sons-Death (http://hubpages.com/hub/Jones-under-Multi-Levels-Investigations-due-to-Jacksons-Death)
I started reading Gambino´s blog last year. His views are interesting.
-
I brought the FBI in at this point for a few reasons, one of which was that people in this thread were already discussing possible government involvement. Also, I intentionally posted the beginning of this thread at 3:33, as a clue about the 333 pages of FBI files--intending to bring the FBI in at some point in this thread.
The biggest reason I brought the FBI in at this point, though, is something that seems to have gotten lost or set aside in all the discussion of the FBI and other things. So let's see if we can get back on track. If the FBI is involved: would they hire actors and rent an ambulance, or would they cooperate with the real LAFD paramedics and use the actual #71 ambulance from Bel Air?
I think it makes more sense for the FBI to cooperate with the LAFD paramedics, they have the authority to do so and it would explain why the people involved can keep silent about this story and of course the event looks more authentic. Now i'm thinking that the less the people see and know the hows, the better. So i thought that maybe FBI agents "played" the paramedics and requisitioned the real ambulance? I also say that because of the way the driver of the ambulance maneuvered it, if it has not been done on purpose, then i would question if he's really a paramedic.
Imo, since we are building a theory regarding the FBI and not having their cooperation or involvement as a fact, is that, if FBI would have been behind this, we would not know on the 1st place.
Their mission in this case would be to protect a person, MJ, and spreading hints that he is alive makes no sense, since this action can put him and his family in danger in the case he is wanted by the criminals he is hiding from and wants to expose.
On the other hand, not many people are in tune with the hoax theories and believe that we are in denial and not accepting Michael´s passing, using the hoax to heal ourselves and overcome his death, so, giving out hints that he is alive would reach that many and those (us) are not being taking seriously anyway.
But, wouldn´t the people after MJ check any info on the net? especially the ones who where not happy having MJ arround?
I am still thinking about the movie "The Life of David Gale".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Life_of_David_Gale (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Life_of_David_Gale)
The set up makes sense. But M is not dead in this case, just proving how the justice can be putting in the death row innocent people.
-
I didn't understand or see about TS posting at 3:33 to tie in with the 333 pages of FBI report on MJ. But Gina did post at that time.
by GINAFELICIA » Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:33 am
ItsHer I don't even know what to say.
Your theory doesn't sound too crazy ?
You think Michael could have bought their silence on such a big thing like his faked death?
No......all these are toooooooo unrealistic.
But if we go back to the old theories of the CIA involvement, than I think everyhting falls in place.
They have the power to set up such an illusion, given the required involvement of so many public services - LAFD, LAPD, UCLA, the coroner, the court of laws and what did I miss?
:shock: what?! I didn't even noticed that, believe me, this is just a freaking coincidence :shock:
Anyway, my computer shows me the time of my post was 8:33
-
But I wanted to say FBI, not CIA :lol: indeed.......
-
TS actually DID post at 3:33, because he posts according to Los Angeles time. @Gina: The reason you saw 11:33 is because you are in a different time zone than TS (who posts according to LA time).
3:33 because the 333 FBI pages.
-
yeah I figured that out
some of us didn't notice TS posted at 3:33 because we saw different hours.
only the minutes are the same 33 all around the world I think
-
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=300#p313461
This is a response to the above comments.
I found this (see below) http://angelbabe43.wordpress.com/2011/0 ... death-bed/ (http://angelbabe43.wordpress.com/2011/03/16/high-ranking-bilderberg-mason-spills-the-beans-on-his-death-bed/) today while searching for something else but it does actually do a great job of explaining what I believe is also a reason for the
"We only have four years to get it right"-MJ. 8-)
When you take into account the fact that the NWO has been trying to get it's plot going full force for many years and it just transfers from one president to the next to pick up where the other presidents left off.
Passing the tourch to the next puppet to keep pressing on towards a One World Government/Religion. I believe we are now in a sort of final phase of the NWO's plans by using once again a President to implement the changes. President Obama was elected in 2008 and his term will end in 2012. The NWO has been trying very hard over the last 3 years to move the plan forward quickly. President Obama was a perfect choice for the NWO and he was chosen for a reason.
My belief is he was supposed to come across as a Savior of mankind especially considering the first part of chaos in 2008 with the housing crisis, which caused alot of panic and upset, then the people started to lose their jobs, more chaos. I believe the NWO used a black president as bait.
I say this because there has never been a black president before and the NWO used that to their advantage. I believe the people and especially blacks were so desperate for change after all the stress from the Bush administration, 9/11, all the chaos from the economy crashing, losing jobs, and homes that when Obama came on the scene it was bought hook, line and sinker; he was the man for the people.
He represented something important to black folks in the sense of them thinking they were finally getting ahead. All the black folks who never voted before were on the band wagon. I will be honest and say I was moved at first by his election but once I found out the truth I am pissed. How dare the NWO use the people like that and play on their emotions. President Obama was celebrated not only in America but globally.
Since his term began so many of our civil liberties have been taken away. Martial law was passed, the new health care reform is a sham (it actually is a repeat from Hitler's time), suspected terrorist are held indefinately with no court date ever in sight, our 2nd amendment of our right to bear arms is almost non existant except for the people who aren't giving up that right, the order out of chaos theory is in my opinion: Scare the crap out of the people by faking terrorist threats and fake attacks (blaming it on other countries when in fact it is our own Governments doing it to us) to the point of submission. The NWO comes in with the answers to our prayers, lol... 8-)
They tell us that it is for our security to tighten up rules and we end up losing our freedoms and the weak don't question it and they just sheepishly go along with it.
http://angelbabe43.wordpress.com/2011/0 ... death-bed/ (http://angelbabe43.wordpress.com/2011/03/16/high-ranking-bilderberg-mason-spills-the-beans-on-his-death-bed/)
HIGH RANKING BILDERBERG MASON SPILLS THE BEANS ON HIS DEATH-BED
Posted by angelbabe43 on March 16, 2011
http://www.freestatevoice.com.au/politi ... -death-bed (http://www.freestatevoice.com.au/politics/item/592-high-ranking-bilderberg-mason-spills-the-beans-on-his-death-bed)
An Oil Tycoon – a high ranking Bilderberg Mason is terminally ill in the USA. He opened his remorseful heart to Pastor Lindsay Williams lastweek. He told him some of the plotted events coming for us all in the next year or so before the take over of the New World Order whereby we will be ruled by China, the yellow skinned race.
But of course the Real Rulers are the Illuminati Bankers who will remain in the shadows as the Chinese take over as the front stage men! This is what he said which also includes other revelations and facts given to us by the alternative media which is not masonically controlled.
1 – Strike on Iran within 2 years and will spread everywhere!
2 – US Dollar will be definitely dead by 2012 – currencies will be
worthless as THEY usher in the new One World Currency. The world as we know it now will be completely different in 2012. Disruption of currencies plotted so pull your money out of the Banks, spend it NOW!
“China are the strong ones” – China are the New World Order
Leaders with America reduced to Third World status! Timothy Geithner of the US Treasury speaks fluent Chinese! (KEVIN RUDD SPEAKS MANDARIN ALSO. ED.) Within 2 years we will not recognize America. The Elites have altered their Time Line. After 2 years we will be so poor, we will not be able to rebel!
3 - Gold and Silver is all you can rely on – convert your assets and
cash to Gold ASAP – Urgent. Don’t hang around because the Illuminati are going to crash the banks further very soon. We are entering into a depression whereby we are ALL going to be utterly poor within two years from now – peasant attitude and peasant way of life.. Don’t depend on Real Estate, Assets!
4 – Crude Oil will be $150 – $200 per barrel in the next few months!
5 - Banks to orchestrate the Mortgage Banking Crisis which will be
covered by the Act passed by US Congress two weeks ago enabling Banks to take over HOMES without the Deeds. If you have a Mortgage, pay it off NOW or sell your home to enable you to pay for a home completely – even if you have to buy a shack. Make sure your humble abode is PAID for – millions will lose their homes!
6 – Obama Health Care Bill is a Control Tool written by the Banks and implemented by the Insurance Companies! It is Government Take Over – gun control, euthanasia etc hidden in this Bill.
7 - US Govt gave China the Panama Canal many years ago – a Council of Foreign Relations (CFR) and Tri Lateral Commission (TriLats) strategy!
8 – China owns all the Greek Ports!
9 – China owns 90% of all Rare Earth Minerals – components for
Technology, Weapons etc.
China makes 80% of weapon components for the US Military. US is
at the Mercy of China!
10 – China is the largest extractor of Natural Mineral Resources,
worldwide. They do more than half of the mining in Australia. China is mining in Africa, US, Middle East, Canada! China has a 90% monopoly over all the Rare Earth Minerals!
11 – China is trading in all currencies, making them Flush with Cash so they can buy/sell in any currency.
12 – Russia is the biggest producer of Oil and Gas. We must watch China and Russia. American will never win a war against them because the US have moved all its’ manufacturing industry to China!
13 - The Elites, Globalists want a Middle East Crisis within a few
months. Goldman Sachs Bank, the IMF and City Bank are already in Iran – they have gone in the back door so to speak in order to cripple it financially before THEY strike. It is also noteworthy to be aware that US/Europe have sold computers with worms (viruses) to Iran – a deliberate stroke. So we see Iran being set up like Iraq – preparations are under way for a STRIKE against Iran within months!
14 – The Devil’s Messiah Project. The terminally ill tycoon said:
“we had to get rid of God to bring in the New World Order. He said that the Devil’s Messiah means total perversion because THEY (Illuminati) cannot bring the Devil’s Messiah to a Righteous People (a Godly people)!" So now we know why homosexuality, abortion, euthanasia, pornography, unchaste dress, witchcraft is being basically forced upon mankind – in preparation for the arrival of the Anti Christ!!!
15 – The Illuminati are pushing the system for a One World Religion.
The National Council of Churches (World Council of Churches) is
financed by these Masonic organisations – the Rockefeller, Carnegie and Ford Foundations. It is interesting to note that Faith Communities are a Key Factor with regard to the False Ecumenism pushed by these Councils and Foundations. Clergy Based Initiatives have taken over most of the churches in the US. The mind boggles when you reflect how the Faith Initiative At Your Word Lord was stringently pushed in parts of the US, Ireland and especially in the Westminster Archdiocese! Such Faith Initiatives only leads to an ALL INCLUSIVE Church! Enough said, folks!
16 - Ordinances (local rulings) have been passed in some Counties in the US which empowers the County Sheriffs to come and padlock a church if just ONE complaint is made against that church (pastor) for speaking out against homosexuality, dress code etc! They are bringing in these Ordinances to shut down churches outside any process of law – just like China!
17 – “We must have our own National Media to bring about the New World Order!” – which they have already – a masonically corporately owned media Civilisation is being collapsed by design. Elites control China and Russia as well as the US President and Congress. Congress are going to try and ram through the Cyber Security Act and the Carbon Tax Act. The US Taxpayer will be asked to bail out the Mortgage Backed Security Crisis which will give around 3 Trillion to the Big Banks. The Big Banks are snapping up the small banks who are trying to rescue our economies but the Big Boys, the Jewish Illuminati who are the Mega Global Exchangers are having NONE of it. The Name of the Game is CONTROL – to control your money, your home, your car – your whole life!
Order out of Chaos – to bring about a full spectrum of world dominance!
My evidence regarding what I said above. All of this info I have known about since last year when I started my hoax adventure. This where I went on the hunt for answers. 8-)
IT IS NOW OFFICIAL - THE U.S. IS A POLICE STATE
[youtube:368qzanm]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_ImuY5aZ-4[/youtube:368qzanm]
Americans have been losing the protection of law for years. In the 21st century the loss of legal protections accelerated with the Bush administrations war on terror, which continues under the Obama administration and is essentially a war on the Constitution and U.S. civil liberties.
The Bush regime was determined to vitiate habeas corpus in order to hold people indefinitely without bringing charges. The regime had acquired hundreds of prisoners by paying a bounty for terrorists. Afghan warlords and thugs responded to the financial incentive by grabbing unprotected people and selling them to the Americans.
The Bush regime needed to hold the prisoners without charges because it had no evidence against the people and did not want to admit that the U.S. government had stupidly paid warlords and thugs to kidnap innocent people. In addition, the Bush regime needed terrorists prisoners in order to prove that there was a terrorist threat.
As there was no evidence against the detainees (most have been released without charges after years of detention and abuse), the U.S. government needed a way around U.S. and international laws against torture in order that the government could produce evidence via self-incrimination. The Bush regime found inhumane and totalitarian-minded lawyers and put them to work at the U.S. Department of Justice (sic) to invent arguments that the Bush regime did not need to obey the law.
The Bush regime created a new classification for its detainees that it used to justify denying legal protection and due process to the detainees. As the detainees were not U.S. citizens and were demonized by the regime as the 760 most dangerous men on earth, there was little public outcry over the regimes unconstitutional and inhumane actions.
As our Founding Fathers and a long list of scholars warned, once civil liberties are breached, they are breached for all. Soon U.S. citizens were being held indefinitely in violation of their habeas corpus rights.
......
This shows how far the police state has advanced. A presidential appointee in the Obama administration tells an important committee of Congress that the executive branch has decided that it can murder American citizens abroad if it thinks they are a threat.
I can hear readers saying the government might as well kill Americans abroad as it kills them at home Waco, Ruby Ridge, the Black Panthers.
Yes, the U.S. government has murdered its citizens, but Dennis Blairs defined policy is a bold new development. The government, of course, denies that it intended to kill the Branch Davidians, Randy Weavers wife and child, or the Black Panthers. The government says that Waco was a terrible tragedy, an unintended result brought on by the Branch Davidians themselves. The government says that Ruby Ridge was Randy Weavers fault for not appearing in court on a day that had been miscommunicated to him. The Black Panthers, the government says, were dangerous criminals who insisted on a shootout.
In no previous death of a U.S. citizen by the hands of the U.S. government has the government claimed the right to kill Americans without arrest, trial, and conviction of a capital crime.
In contrast, Dennis Blair has told the U.S. Congress that the executive branch has assumed the right to murder Americans who it deems a threat.
What defines threat? Who will make the decision? What it means is that the government will murder whomever it chooses.
There is no more complete or compelling evidence of a police state than the government announcing that it will murder its own citizens if it views them as a threat.
Ironic, isnt it, that the war on terror to make us safe ends in a police state with the government declaring the right to murder American citizens whom it regards as a threat.
Full article:
http://original.antiwar.com/roberts/201 ... ice-state/ (http://original.antiwar.com/roberts/2010/02/09/us-is-a-police-state/)
INFOWARS.com
PrisonPlanet.com
PrisonPlanet.TV
The Truth About Health Care Bill- Unconstitutional, Federal power grab, NO PRIVACY
[youtube:368qzanm]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RxKFkyt-I0[/youtube:368qzanm]
THE TRUTH ABOUT THE HEALTH CARE BILL
If you only read 9 paragraphs about the proposed health care reform Act, H.R. 3200, please let it be the article below by Michael Connelly. The article is also available at the link attached at the end of the article. Professor Connelly is a retired attorney, former Officer in the U.S. Army, published author and Constitutional Law Instructor.
http://www.michaelconnelly.viviti.com/e ... lth-care-b (http://www.michaelconnelly.viviti.com/entries/general/the-truth-about-the-health-care-b)ills The Truth About the Health Care Bill
To begin with, much of what has been said about the law and its implications is in fact true, despite what the Democrats and the media are saying.. The law does provide for rationing of health care, particularly where senior citizens and other classes of citizens are involved, free health care for illegal immigrants, free abortion services, and probably
forced participation in abortions by members of the medical profession.
The Bill will also eventually force private insurance companies out of business and put everyone into a government run system. All decisions about personal health care will ultimately be made by federal bureaucrats and most of them will not be health care professionals. Hospital admissions, payments to physicians, and allocations of necessary medical devices will be strictly controlled. However, as scary as all of that is, it just scratches the surface. In fact, I have concluded that this legislation really has no
intention of providing affordable health care choices. Instead it is a convenient cover for the most massive transfer of power to the Executive Branch of government that has ever occurred, or even been contemplated.
You can also forget about the right to privacy. That will have been legislated into oblivion regardless of what the 3rd and 4thAmendments may provide. If you decide not to have healthcare insurance or if you have private insurance that is not deemed "acceptable" to the "Health Choices Administrator" appointed by Obama there will be a tax imposed on you. It is called a "tax" instead of a fine because of the intent to avoid application of the due process clause of the 5th Amendment. However, that doesn't work because since there is nothing in the law that allows you to contest or appeal the imposition of the tax, it is definitely depriving someone of property without the "due process of law.
I could write many more pages about this legislation, but I think you get the idea. This is not about health care; it is about seizing power and limiting rights. Article 6 of the Constitution requires the members of both houses of Congress to "be bound by oath or affirmation" to support the Constitution. If I was a member of Congress I would not be able to vote for this legislation or anything like it without feeling I was violating that sacred oath or affirmation. If I voted for it anyway I would hope the American people would hold me accountable. For those who might doubt the nature of this threat, I suggest they consult the source. Here is a link to the Constitution:
http://www(dot (http://www(dot))archives(dot)gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html
http://www(dot (http://www(dot))archives (dot)gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html
And another to the Bill of Rights:
http://www(dot (http://www(dot))archives.(dot)gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript....
http://www(dot (http://www(dot))archives(dot)gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.html
There you can see exactly what we are about to have taken from us."
Michael Connelly
Retired attorney,
Constitutional Law Instructor
Carrollton, Texas
http://www.michaelconnelly.viviti.com/e ... lth-care-b (http://www.michaelconnelly.viviti.com/entries/general/the-truth-about-the-health-care-b)ills
Foreign Troops in Calif on Martial Law Standby
[youtube:368qzanm]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msrBpwVvwdc[/youtube:368qzanm]
H1N1 Quarantine Martial Law FEMA camps Microchips MUST SEE!!
[youtube:368qzanm]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0gHnspMnBA[/youtube:368qzanm]
U.S. Soldiers Rebel Against Martial Law Orders! Twitter: AngelicStarseed
[youtube:368qzanm]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmmMUK4S8jE[/youtube:368qzanm]
I'm glad you are talking about this because I ask the question the other day if Obama has something to do with this because Michael is always working against prejudice and with the 4 year thing, and Obama's end of term. Thanks for digging into this because I'd thought no one saw my post : :D :D :D
-
As public PureLove the witness protection program provides protection to witnesses and their families, old identities are being erased, put them in a city where there are likely to be recognized, with new names and new lives, and should not contact former members of the family without protection.
Gema're right when you say that the FBI's mission is to protect the person who is in the protection program, anyone can go online and read what is said here.
-
Imo, since we are building a theory regarding the FBI and not having their cooperation or involvement as a fact, is that, if FBI would have been behind this, we would not know on the 1st place.
I've been thinking the same thing as I put in bold above. I thought the whole point of FBI activities was that they're secret. Please, can someone put me straight if I'm wrong about that.
So, if they were/are involved and TS knows this, why would he reveal it to a public internet forum of all places?
If they weren't/aren't involved then TS is maybe using diversion tactics again. Remember he said he might go along with wrong theories as well as correct ones.
Or maybe TS doesn't KNOW the full story any more than any of us, and so is speculating himself.
I have to say I'm rather uncomfortable with this line of discussion.
-
Just checking in.
I've been on read only with the FBI thing because to me it's just not a plausible theory.
Carry on.
-
i have to agree , that FBI and secret need to go hand in hand...otherwise what would be the point?
TS please clear this up and put us on the right track! :D
-
I've been thinking the same thing as I put in bold above. I thought the whole point of FBI activities was that they're secret. Please, can someone put me straight if I'm wrong about that.
So, if they were/are involved and TS knows this, why would he reveal it to a public internet forum of all places?
If they weren't/aren't involved then TS is maybe using diversion tactics again. Remember he said he might go along with wrong theories as well as correct ones.
Or maybe TS doesn't KNOW the full story any more than any of us, and so is speculating himself.
I have to say I'm rather uncomfortable with this line of discussion.
This is what I want to know too.
Exposing FBI's work publicly is the evidence of blackmail; which means disclosing certain informations (in this case informations that are KNOWN to be tomb secret- FBI) in order to get other informations you don't own, and blackmail is not a proof of good intentions at all.
-
Just checking in.
I've been on read only with the FBI thing because to me it's just not a plausible theory.
Carry on.
I think I am kinda on that side too bec.....if it was an FBI thing, I doubt we would have been able to uncover so many "clues" or information as such. I think it would be an open/closed book and not suspicious to anyone. It's possible there is a connection, but I am not sure what....
Carrying on then ;)
-
It is my understanding that once FBI files are released, they become public record. Since 333 pages have been released that part is common knowledge. the other 400 or so pages are still unknown and confidential. As I had mention in an earlier post, I don't think Michael is involved in any kind of WPP or sting operation, but he very well could have the help of Ex FBI members and they themselves could have inside contact to help Michael faciliate the best posible way to make this whole effort look real to the unsuspecting public. Therefore involving very select people with limited need to know information.
Also these undercover Ex officals could be gathering information vital to exposing corruption on a major scale. Who is to say that the paramedics are not undercover ex agents that know and Love Michael and would do whatever necessary to keep him from harm.
Also those buried deep in these agencies there is corruption that has everything to do with NWO and the revelation of the Anti Christ which will be in power before the end of the Age. I am certain Michael wants us to know who these people are so that we are not deceived by them. He told Shmuley and I quote " I have seen the worst, the nightmare of the human condition, the human soul. Of what I would never even think common man would be capable of behaving in such a way!" ....maybe what Michael saw was completely of the Anti Christ in these places. So I don't think he would go put himself in the middle of the FBI and expect them to protect him. I think TS is trying to get us to understand the relationship that has taken place and to what extent, it is piece by piece, layer by layer.
Michael associated himself with very high up officials....remember "keep your friends close and your enemies closer" You have to get on the inside to know how they way work. Like planting a "MOLE"
This whole thing has layers, it isn't about just ONE thing but layers of many things. If not Michael wouldn't have spent years working on this. He has patients indeed.
Has anyone paid attention to "Anonymous"? They do not play!
-
I would think that in a sting operation such as this, the FBI would have access tow whatever resources needed. If actors are hired (meaning professional actors)- that would mean contracts, - probably special ones with government enforeced gag-orders. It's one thing to keep your mouth shut being paid- it's quite another to be paid AND be motivated by not going to jail for violating an offical order.
Why would they have to hire professional actors, though? I am sure the FBI has people they use in undercover work all the time. The paramedic, therfore could have been such personnel.
My first thought was that I doubted the "real" paramedics were used on this one. Going with that- then it is also unlikely that the "real" ambulance 71 was used. They might have noticed it missing. Wait, never mind- they would also have noticed "their ambulance" being shown on tv. Hm...So as I see it, there are several options (and this applies to both the 'pre-staging' and the ambulance used on 6/25):
1-Real paramedics, real ambulance- all on offical FBI business (therefore bound by their professional ethics etc AND probably offical gag-orders).
2-FBI personell and real ambulance (risky- unless again paramedics and "higher-ups" are involved- as questions would arise why "their ambulance was used on that day w/o them being in it)
3-FBI and fake ambulance 71- again- there would have to be coverage for the fact that this is what was shown on tv
Looing at that- I now lean toward option 1. And the bad driving could have been by design to leave a clue (or the real paramedics fogot to "acti" with a sense of urgency, since they knew no one was dying, and they forgot they had to "act as if.")
-
Ok I didn't realize you were gonna go there TS. ;) I was trying to just stay on the subject of the paramedics but now that you opened up the direction of this to go towards the FBI being involved I am re-posting some info I have known about for a while now. I didn't want to get to ahead of the game, lol ...
[/color]
I brought the FBI in at this point for a few reasons, one of which was that people in this thread were already discussing possible government involvement. Also, I intentionally posted the beginning of this thread at 3:33, as a clue about the 333 pages of FBI files--intending to bring the FBI in at some point in this thread.
The biggest reason I brought the FBI in at this point, though, is something that seems to have gotten lost or set aside in all the discussion of the FBI and other things. So let's see if we can get back on track. If the FBI is involved: would they hire actors and rent an ambulance, or would they cooperate with the real LAFD paramedics and use the actual #71 ambulance from Bel Air?
I'm going to say cooperation.
Real paramedics wouldn't be allowed to speak about the events of that day if FBI was on hand or involved.
If the Paramedics were Govt agents they would not have said all those weird comments about not recognizing MJ & the room being so warm ... So that means real Paramedics sworn to silence of the events that day.
A few states, including California, Illinois, New York, and Texas, have their own witness protection programs for crimes not covered by the federal program. The state-run programs provide less extensive protections than the federal program. Is this a factor?
PS The security tapes are still missing...
PPS Thank you TS for reposting all the TIAI Revealed, Part 9: “Can Ye Not Discern the Signs of the Times?"
Revelation is one of my favorite books; I see what's happening in the World, the Middle East, Spain, Turkey and North Africa with all the unrest...looks like Ezk 37 & 38 are lining up.
It's all for L.O.V.E.
-
(http://soundtrackbase.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/the-sting-soundtrack.jpg)
:mrgreen:
-
Gina, sorry for forgetting about time zones. :lol:
Bec, I have had my doubts since TS first said FBI was the how, and I'm struggling with all those issues still, like secrecy and safety for Michael if its a sting operation. I just feel there's so much more info we are missing to understand this, and TS maybe will reveal more as we discuss every possible problem or possibility with the FBI, especially now that TMZ has mentioned them as involved in the court case with the fingerprinting of the syringe.
I liked that old movie, the Sting! and the song!
-
Ok I didn't realize you were gonna go there TS. ;) I was trying to just stay on the subject of the paramedics but now that you opened up the direction of this to go towards the FBI being involved I am re-posting some info I have known about for a while now. I didn't want to get to ahead of the game, lol ...
[/color]
I brought the FBI in at this point for a few reasons, one of which was that people in this thread were already discussing possible government involvement. Also, I intentionally posted the beginning of this thread at 3:33, as a clue about the 333 pages of FBI files--intending to bring the FBI in at some point in this thread.
The biggest reason I brought the FBI in at this point, though, is something that seems to have gotten lost or set aside in all the discussion of the FBI and other things. So let's see if we can get back on track. If the FBI is involved: would they hire actors and rent an ambulance, or would they cooperate with the real LAFD paramedics and use the actual #71 ambulance from Bel Air?
If the FBI is truly involved with all this, I can't see them hiring actors and renting an ambulance.....even in Hollywood. That would open themselves up to a lack of security within whatever operation they were running. Any outsider would pose a security risk. Things would have to be kept very tight and done from within. That being said, even working with the LAFD would have created questions. Security would have had to have been top priority. The fact that the ambulance driver couldn't turn around should prove it was someone other than LAFD at the wheel.
Blessings
If the real paramedics were involved, then wouldn't that risk them getting fired? :? and I agree with wishingstar, I don't think they would hire random actors. :? Maybe the paramedics were FBI Agents under disguise or something. :? :)
-
I remember reading in 2009, that Michael only had to disappear and the rest was all done by the FBI.
Perhaps Murray is an FBI agent, as well as paramedics, coroners and all witnesses.
The ambulance can be real, but everything belongs to the FBI. This explains many things in this hoax.
-
To me, Murray is not just a Doctor. He either witnessed something against Michael´s life or protected Michael. Murray FBI? no idea, but I can´t see that man as a murderer. Also, Murray´s clinic was set in land that was going to be bought against his will by a casino company (LunaJo´s videos explains this much beter than I do).
If La Toya is a police in Indiana, Michael could also be. Nothing will surprise me at this point.
-
Ok I didn't realize you were gonna go there TS. ;) I was trying to just stay on the subject of the paramedics but now that you opened up the direction of this to go towards the FBI being involved I am re-posting some info I have known about for a while now. I didn't want to get to ahead of the game, lol ...
[/color]
I brought the FBI in at this point for a few reasons, one of which was that people in this thread were already discussing possible government involvement. Also, I intentionally posted the beginning of this thread at 3:33, as a clue about the 333 pages of FBI files--intending to bring the FBI in at some point in this thread.
The biggest reason I brought the FBI in at this point, though, is something that seems to have gotten lost or set aside in all the discussion of the FBI and other things. So let's see if we can get back on track. If the FBI is involved: would they hire actors and rent an ambulance, or would they cooperate with the real LAFD paramedics and use the actual #71 ambulance from Bel Air?
I do not think the FBI would hire actors and rent an ambulance because Michael took care of that part. I believe Michael staged the ambulance picture on a different day using actors dressed like paramedics in a different ambulance other than #71 but it was similiar enough to make the picture that we saw more legit. I also think the staged picture was done in a closed set, not at Carolwood.
I believe the FBI would cooperate with the real LAFD and visa versa. The real LAFD would cooperate with Michael and the FBI through one key person in the upper level and on a need to know basis. I believe the key person in LAFD is the Captian and under his direction the real paramedics in the real ambulance #71 from Bel Air responded and did their job like good employees. No questions asked and they did not need to know anything other than do your job.
The below 911 call was released by LAFD. I am adding that to the evidence pile for my theories and opinions. I also added a different version of the 911 call for comparison and contradiction in the way the call was answered by the dispatcher.
The 2nd video LAFD Capt. recalls Michael Jackson (MJ) events on June 25, 2009 with the 911 call has something interesting in it. The dispatcher answers the call by sayin Fire Paramedic 33... 8-)
[youtube:16r6qn8t]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oftybkF__uc[/youtube:16r6qn8t]
Uploaded by PoliticsNewsPolitics on Jun 26, 2009
The L.A. County Fire Department released the tape of the 911 call made when Michael Jackson went into cardiac arrest.
[youtube:16r6qn8t]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgD4COfhrLU&feature=related[/youtube:16r6qn8t]
I am adding this video also as evidence. I believe that this show had clues in it also. The fire captain is very suspect in my book. He seems to be acting. I think he is another key person. He would be the some of the paramedics in on it.
LAFD Capt. recalls Michael Jackson (MJ) events on June 25, 2009
[youtube:16r6qn8t]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggewNtwvHJ4&feature=related[/youtube:16r6qn8t]
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309781#p309781 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309781#p309781)
In this video the Captain is so precise on the time the 911 call was made. He even says it down to the seconds, lol
Below is some of the clue information I have used to come to my opinions and theories on this subject. ;)
TS wrote:
Now back to the “MJ Conspiracy” book and video. Quite obviously, there was a conspiracy against MJ, even though it wasn’t a murder conspiracy. And the testimony from Aphrodite shows that people involved in a conspiracy may not even know it themselves (only the upper levels understand). And even after she recognized the conspiracy, it seems that she only saw media and money as the source of the conspiracy—not the NWO powers controlling the media.
viewtopic.php?f=72&t=7194&start=0 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=7194&start=0)
TS wrote:
MJ has been planning this hoax for many years; and he had the time and influence to get a few key people in the right positions to pull it off—and yes, even government agencies still have some good people in them. Look at history: many times people in high positions have stood up against the corruption in their own system (government, or church, etc).
TS wrote:
But MJ did not involve large quantities of people. In fact, the “three-way theory” is basically correct http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpb ... 2&start=0; (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=5382&start=0;) this theory states that the fewer people “in on it”, the better (although more than three are actually involved, and the “three-way theory” does allow for more than three).
Also, as far as possible, legal loopholes were used. Nevertheless, with a hoax of this magnitude and importance: whether the line was ever crossed, between being inside or outside of legal loopholes, is a question that probably doesn’t even need to be answered.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
4-37. Hints on the “How’s” of the Hoax
In this update, I have gone into great detail about the timing of the hoax (as well as a few other aspects). Previously, I have gone into great detail about the reasons for the hoax http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpb ... 0&sr=posts (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/search.php?author_id=1440&sr=posts). That leaves only one frontier remaining: how did MJ succeed in pulling off this massive hoax?
I’m not going to go into great detail on that now, it would be very long—and this update is already the longest update by far. But I will give some hints, to help you go in the right direction if you want to investigate it further.
For starters, maybe it is time to create a sub-forum for Coherent Theories. By this, I mean theories that start putting all the pieces together, fitting into one bigger picture. But we can’t have MJ hopping on a plane at LAX, escaping out of a tunnel in the basement of UCLA, and riding alive in the helicopter to the coroner’s office, as well as in the other helicopter—all at the same time. This would not qualify as a coherent theory.
I think we already have a huge clue from Jermaine, telling us that MJ went to the “airport”—NOT the hospital. And in fact, it would’ve been very risky and unnecessary for him to ride alive in the ambulance to UCLA, and then go into UCLA where he could be easily recognized (and hard to play dead), and then try to escape somehow. What would be the point?
Based on the planned timing of the hoax, we should now be able to see very plainly that the living MJ body double theory doesn’t work. There is no chance that a living double just happened to die on the right year, the right day, and the right hour.
This leaves us with three possibilities. There was no body at all, which would require quite a few people to be “in on it”. There was a dummy, not a real human; this reduces the number of people “in on it”, and also makes it easy to duplicate the looks of MJ (but paramedics would need to be “in on it”, because they would not be fooled by a dummy). Or there was a real human corpse, which had recently died. In fact, at different times and places, there could’ve been more than one corpse and/or dummy used as needed.
TS wrote:
4-38. Only a Few Would Need to Be “In On It”
Let me also clue you in on a few tricks, so that only a relatively few people would need to be “in on it”. The endlessly discussed helicopter ride to the coroner: it could’ve had a living and/or a dead body in it, but not MJ; and yet none of the people in the copter, or working that situation, would’ve had any clue that MJ was alive.
All you would need to do is create a diversion for the media and public: the helicopter and all would be a big show for the media, while they transport the (supposedly) “real” MJ’s body in an unmarked vehicle—this would keep MJ’s body safer. And all the people “involved” in that diversion operation would play right along, and obey without question like good little boys and girls, thinking all the while that MJ’s dead body was being transported in some unmarked vehicle (and not even questioning whether or not MJ was actually dead). And even if they suspected later that MJ is alive, how would they know? They would not know, they would just suspect it (like hoax believers).
The fact that it’s a criminal case is another good alibi for secrecy and cover-up; this way, nobody thinks twice when they’re told not to talk about what they did or did not see at UCLA on June 25 (or other times and places).
[youtube:16r6qn8t]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMB5gfcVChg[/youtube:16r6qn8t]
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053)
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185#p311394 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185#p311394)
In regards to the question why the paramedic drove slowly and backwards, my opinion is (see below):
IF Michael/the patient was already DOA when the paramedics got to the house and they tried to do CPR there for a good amount of time; the ambulance would not need to be in a hurry when leaving because the patient is already gone.
To the airport! lol
Also that was the diversion tactic for the media and public while I believe Michael slipped out a back gate and went to the AIRPORT.
-
Just checking in.
I've been on read only with the FBI thing because to me it's just not a plausible theory.
Carry on.
I think I am kinda on that side too bec.....if it was an FBI thing, I doubt we would have been able to uncover so many "clues" or information as such. I think it would be an open/closed book and not suspicious to anyone. It's possible there is a connection, but I am not sure what....
Carrying on then ;)
Why does it seem so improbable that Michael worked with the FBI? As I said, it seems to be the one theorie tying everything together. It takes care of the "won't he get in trouble for doing ....(insert whatever we have questioned)" and "why weren't people fired for helping out," as well as "how do they keep quiet." I think it is entirely possibly that Michael, who FOR YEARS has felt that people were out to kill him has convinced people in high places- and then their interests converged, and plans were consolidated. I don't think the FBI came up with all this- there is too much of Michael's genuis shining through. But- he might have been in a position where he had the trading power needed, and therefore, the plan was excecuted with him as the planner on many things. Also, the FBI theorie, as also stated explains why Michael might not be in total control as far as timing now. We do not know what the overall goal was- but maybe that has not been accomplished and bringing him back too early would endanger his safety (as indicated by Teddy R).
Also, in a true sting, you leave enough things out there to intimidate your mark. What is more intimidating than to feel somethings are not fitting- such as in the suspicious "death" of Michael.
-
@ I'm convinced..
Also that was the diversion tactic for the media and public while I believe Michael slipped out a back gate and went to the AIRPORT.
ITA with this! Since they were so slow- Michael had ample time. Smoke and Mirrors to make the illusion work.
-
@ig, in my opinion the FBI angle is not plausible because of what MJonmind said already, the FBI does things in secret, and this hoax has been anything but. Little ol you and me aren't going to uncover anything the FBI is involved in from in front of our PCs.
Additionally, the FBI doesn't "go along with" anything for anyone, not even the President. It would be a huge security breech and GIANT waste of taxpayer funds not to mention Bureau attention and resources... my god... the political scandal would be catastrophic for the current administration. The GOP would eat it up as a way to CRUSH Obama in 2012.
It makes no sense.
If MJ were a FBI agent, and he was blowing his cover to a few thousand people on the internet he would be fired and possibly brought up on treason charges. Because you don't just get fired by the FBI, you face federal charges.
If the FBI were helping MJ, then he would be in the WPP and then he might as well be dead. No clues, no hints, no family acting weird, we would have real tears from the kids, real funeral, real memorial... he'd really be dead... to everyone. That's how the WPP works.
I haven't read a single thing in all these recent posts that makes me doubt myself on this for one second.
In fact, this very topic is the first thing that has given me a doubt about TS's legitimacy. That's pretty big because it's coming at a very late hour. But that's ok. I watch. And I read. And I wait.
-
Like TS said earlier, the FBI is involved with more than just the WPP.
So if the FBI is involved, it doesn't necessarily mean that MJ is in the WPP.
-
Just checking in.
I've been on read only with the FBI thing because to me it's just not a plausible theory.
Carry on.
I think I am kinda on that side too bec.....if it was an FBI thing, I doubt we would have been able to uncover so many "clues" or information as such. I think it would be an open/closed book and not suspicious to anyone. It's possible there is a connection, but I am not sure what....
Carrying on then ;)
I wrote this on Teddy Riley thread but I want to write it here too. Probably this can explain how we are getting the clues. I have another theory about who is pulling the strings. I believe that Michael planned everything for such a long time ago and gave the directions to some of the key people who are in on the hoax and told them exactly what to do and when. That is how we are getting the clues. But of course there are somethings happening without Michael's permission because not everyone knows that he is alive. Things are changing, plans are changing according to the situation like the BAM date. Probably Michael planned to come back way so much earlier but FBI didn't approve him to do that for his safety and they delayed the come back. I do not think everything is under Michael's control at the moment. Just the clues he wanted to give are given to us by the people that Michael chose.
I think it makes more sense for the FBI to cooperate with the LAFD paramedics, they have the authority to do so and it would explain why the people involved can keep silent about this story and of course the event looks more authentic. Now i'm thinking that the less the people see and know the hows, the better. So i thought that maybe FBI agents "played" the paramedics and requisitioned the real ambulance? I also say that because of the way the driver of the ambulance maneuvered it, if it has not been done on purpose, then i would question if he's really a paramedic.
Exactly. I do believe that there are just some key people in these authorities who know what's going on. I remember we discuss about if the trial is real or fake. I do believe that there're key people who knows the truth in the courtroom but not everyone there is aware of the situation. This goes with all the authorities who are involved with the hoax. And like you wrote, the less people know about the hoax, the better.
-
@ig, in my opinion the FBI angle is not plausible because of what MJonmind said already, the FBI does things in secret, and this hoax has been anything but. Little ol you and me aren't going to uncover anything the FBI is involved in from in front of our PCs.
Additionally, the FBI doesn't "go along with" anything for anyone, not even the President. It would be a huge security breech and GIANT waste of taxpayer funds not to mention Bureau attention and resources... my god... the political scandal would be catastrophic for the current administration. The GOP would eat it up as a way to CRUSH Obama in 2012.
It makes no sense.
If MJ were a FBI agent, and he was blowing his cover to a few thousand people on the internet he would be fired and possibly brought up on treason charges. Because you don't just get fired by the FBI, you face federal charges.
If the FBI were helping MJ, then he would be in the WPP and then he might as well be dead. No clues, no hints, no family acting weird, we would have real tears from the kids, real funeral, real memorial... he'd really be dead... to everyone. That's how the WPP works.
I haven't read a single thing in all these recent posts that makes me doubt myself on this for one second.
In fact, this very topic is the first thing that has given me a doubt about TS's legitimacy. That's pretty big because it's coming at a very late hour. But that's ok. I watch. And I read. And I wait.
I read your post a couple of times bec and it made me think. TS brought up the FBI because...he was waiting for someone else to throw it out there but nobody did. There have been all sorts of theories flying around about the ambulance photo, the leaves, the paramedics, etc - it might be reasonable to assume that someone would have brought up the FBI, considering they released the 333 pages on 12/21/09 (or were supposed to but it was the next day) and 12:21 is the time of the 911 call (as we all know). And numerology is big here, someone should have drawn the conclusion of the FBI's involvement, whether it's right or wrong. But nobody did, so TS did and probably didn't want to be the one to do it. But no one else was.
TS wrote in the TIAI Feb 26th thread:
I may challenge true theories, and/or I may lend support to false theories. In fact, I will usually have at least two different theories for each step.
So, if an FBI discussion is what was supposed to happen, like it's happening now, is this TS lending support to a false theory or no? And if yes, why talk about the FIB, I mean, FBI? Just another obstacle in the game? And TMZ brings up the FBI in a Michael article today. My feeling is that - yes, this is a hoax and Michael is alive BUT just because we know this, we're not necessarily above getting our heads messed with, just like the rest of the world gets their heads messed with for so many things. Not done meanly, but to prove a point or something.
Or, maybe Michael is with Mulder and Scully because the truth is out there.
-
@ig, in my opinion the FBI angle is not plausible because of what MJonmind said already, the FBI does things in secret, and this hoax has been anything but. Little ol you and me aren't going to uncover anything the FBI is involved in from in front of our PCs.
Additionally, the FBI doesn't "go along with" anything for anyone, not even the President. It would be a huge security breech and GIANT waste of taxpayer funds not to mention Bureau attention and resources... my god... the political scandal would be catastrophic for the current administration. The GOP would eat it up as a way to CRUSH Obama in 2012.
It makes no sense.
If MJ were a FBI agent, and he was blowing his cover to a few thousand people on the internet he would be fired and possibly brought up on treason charges. Because you don't just get fired by the FBI, you face federal charges.
If the FBI were helping MJ, then he would be in the WPP and then he might as well be dead. No clues, no hints, no family acting weird, we would have real tears from the kids, real funeral, real memorial... he'd really be dead... to everyone. That's how the WPP works.
I haven't read a single thing in all these recent posts that makes me doubt myself on this for one second.
In fact, this very topic is the first thing that has given me a doubt about TS's legitimacy. That's pretty big because it's coming at a very late hour. But that's ok. I watch. And I read. And I wait.
I read your post a couple of times bec and it made me think. TS brought up the FBI because...he was waiting for someone else to throw it out there but nobody did. There have been all sorts of theories flying around about the ambulance photo, the leaves, the paramedics, etc - it might be reasonable to assume that someone would have brought up the FBI, considering they released the 333 pages on 12/21/09 (or were supposed to but it was the next day) and 12:21 is the time of the 911 call (as we all know). And numerology is big here, someone should have drawn the conclusion of the FBI's involvement, whether it's right or wrong. But nobody did, so TS did and probably didn't want to be the one to do it. But no one else was.
TS wrote in the TIAI Feb 26th thread:
I may challenge true theories, and/or I may lend support to false theories. In fact, I will usually have at least two different theories for each step.
So, if an FBI discussion is what was supposed to happen, like it's happening now, is this TS lending support to a false theory or no? And if yes, why talk about the FIB, I mean, FBI? Just another obstacle in the game? And TMZ brings up the FBI in a Michael article today. My feeling is that - yes, this is a hoax and Michael is alive BUT just because we know this, we're not necessarily above getting our heads messed with, just like the rest of the world gets their heads messed with for so many things. Not done meanly, but to prove a point or something.
Or, maybe Michael is with Mulder and Scully because the truth is out there.
Aha!
Funny but true. I was watching X-Files reruns the other day and realized... that's what we do. Mulder is the original hoaxer. No wonder I always dug that show.
-
Bec - I've always loved the X Files too. I have a couple seasons on DVD, might be interesting to watch them again and see what sort of weird hoax stuff there is to find.
-
@ I'm convinced..
Also that was the diversion tactic for the media and public while I believe Michael slipped out a back gate and went to the AIRPORT.
ITA with this! Since they were so slow- Michael had ample time. Smoke and Mirrors to make the illusion work.
I agree with this. ignisaeternus wrote:
Also, in a true sting, you leave enough things out there to intimidate your mark.
All the contradictions are to confuse the enemy. Also IF anything was to happen to Michael now or after the BAM: WE the PUBLIC would be on the case and say HEY what is UP? I also believe this is part of the reason Michael wanted us (death hoax investigators and the non-hoax fans) to be INVOLVED so it gives him more protection. It also makes more people aware of WTF he has been saying for years. His "death" has our ATTENTION! :shock: 8-)
The more people looking into it is all the better.
I also don't get why some people find it hard to believe that Michael has INFLUENCE over key people. 8-) ;) Given his HIStory with the police/armies of other nations/countries gaurding him during his concerts or outings. Think about all the traveling he has done, who he has met and been photographed with.[/b] ;) 8-)
[youtube:1l2h4mbu]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iVRKUGv9iw&feature=channel_video_title[/youtube:1l2h4mbu]
Side Note: Kenny did say something about equipment arriving. Maybe that was the fake ambulance? :?:
-
God does play a huge factor in this. For those who believe in the spiritual side should recognize what Michael the Archangel means to the following people below. I am not meaning for this to go this direction but it is something that I find relevant when it comes to Michael and his influence over the police, etc. The first link does have some dyslexic typos in the name Michael, lol. This has been talked about before on this forum many times. Michael has also had paintings done of himself playing the role of Archangel.
http://www.publicsafety.net/st_micheal.htm (http://www.publicsafety.net/st_micheal.htm)
The Public Safety Net
Saint Micheal The Archangel
The Patron Saint of the Police Officers, Paramedics & E.M.T.'s
http://www.policecoins.com/saintmichael.html (http://www.policecoins.com/saintmichael.html)
(http://www.policecoins.com/images/SaintMichael170.jpg)
Saint Michael, the Patron Saint of Law Enforcement
As protector and defender against evil, Saint Michael is the patron saint for law enforcement, and among the most common of the icons used on police coins. He is usually depicted as a winged knight-warrior, wearing battle armor. He wields a sword and holds scales of justice, while standing triumphantly over a fallen Lucifer.
Ok that is all for me on that subject. I would like to see more theories or opinions on the paramedics and the question TS has asked us recently.
Peace
-
I don't think the FBI story is BS, because in my opinion there is no other way than them being involved. That was obvious since the release of the 333 pages on 12/21.
I am not sure how that works with secrecy, but I think this started way before 2009, maybe it is part of the plan now to let go some stuff. Maybe there is a deal: he helps them bust the bad guys, if they help him with all this. If this has been a long project, it seems reasonable.
I am still wondering though what Mike's role was; informant or agent. Wasn't Elvis an agent too? Any light on that TS?
ps. you got yourself a whole new elvisandmj-page. I owed you that after you got me those fantastic glasses. 8-)
-
Without quoting anyone specific, I will give my answers here to things that have been asked or stated by several hoax members about the FBI.
First, I am not the one to initiate FBI or government involvement. This is a theory that has been around pretty much from the beginning. Souza has had the FBI on the home page for a long time: "If he has the FBI on his side, a lot can be done." {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/recap_english.php}.
Second, I never said that everyone in the entire FBI organization is involved. I have always said MJ was planning this for years, and got a few key people in a few key positions to cooperate with him. Notice that this is possible with the structure of the FBI: "The article went on to also blame the FBI's decentralized structure which prevented effective communication and cooperation between different FBI offices. The article also claimed that the FBI has still not evolved into an effective counterterrorism or counterintelligence agency, due in large part to deeply ingrained cultural resistance to change within the FBI." {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fbi}.
Third, as I have said a few times already in this thread: the Elvis connection answers much of these objections--including the idea that there would be 100% secrecy, and no clues. Elvis had government help, that is unquestionably established not only from Linda's website--but just about anyone else who talks about the Elvis case. Also, originally Elvis had only six people in on it--and they were not all government agents. Therefore, all the people in all the government agencies were not in on it.
Fourth, if the FBI is involved, why would TS expose this publicly on the internet? Again, look at the Elvis case. Why does Linda's website publicly expose the fact that government agents helped Elvis in the past and recently? Is Linda's website putting anyone in danger? No. Why not? Because the general public has never heard of her website; and of the few who do see it, many still don't believe it. Same for this MJ hoax website. It is not getting millions of hits a day (not yet, anyway :shock: ). Few are watching, most of which are merely forum members here; and even some of those don't believe what I am saying about the FBI.
Fifth, there is more than one way to skin a cat. So let's look at it from the other side of the coin. If the FBI did not help out, then how could the Bel Air station not know something is fishy? Would they sit by quietly, and say nothing, while MJ hired actors and rented an ambulance to look just like the LAFD #71 ambulance? And why would the LAFD Captain say {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggewNtwvHJ4}: "On June 25, 2009, LAFD responded ... our paramedic ..."--if indeed the LAFD did NOT respond, and it was merely actors in a rented ambulance?
Do you think professionals could ALL be bought out for money? And when the truth came out, wouldn't there be serious consequences for all of them? Do you think they would not be charged with abuse of public office--ESPECIALLY if they got paid for it? Can they get out of it all, by saying that it was all just for a movie--and this or that legal loophole squeaks them by? Did you know that legal loopholes do not prevent people from getting charged with a crime? Did you know that loopholes may not even prevent someone from being convicted of a crime? Different people interpret the law differently; that is why there are lawyers and judges and juries.
However, if key people in the FBI are cooperating with LAFD and MJ: then when the truth comes out, all they have to do is show success in catching some public corruption through this process--and all is well that ends well. After all, once again, that is their "top priority among criminal investigations" {http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption}.
Finally: is this hoax a prank, or a Thriller II reality movie, or an ARG, or a sting operation, or a Vendetta, or an NWO/EOW warning, or a wake-up call to the gullible public (don't believe everything in the media), etc--which is it? And the answer is: all of the above! It is something that people have never seen before, at least not the combination of these things and on this scale.
-
I brought the FBI in at this point for a few reasons, one of which was that people in this thread were already discussing possible government involvement. Also, I intentionally posted the beginning of this thread at 3:33, as a clue about the 333 pages of FBI files--intending to bring the FBI in at some point in this thread.
The biggest reason I brought the FBI in at this point, though, is something that seems to have gotten lost or set aside in all the discussion of the FBI and other things. So let's see if we can get back on track. If the FBI is involved: would they hire actors and rent an ambulance, or would they cooperate with the real LAFD paramedics and use the actual #71 ambulance from Bel Air?
O-mi-GOSH, I feel like a COMPLETE idiot! :oops: :oops: :x THAT is EXACTLY WHY the Agents are un- identifiable in the ambulance pictures!!!! Those two, at least are probably undercover AGENTS.
omg, WHAT a dim wit---I've been working TOO hard!!! :lol: (Or maybe just in forced denial that this could REALLY, :? come on, be anything but a big ARG? :( )
I KNOW this :geek: :roll: :oops: !! I used to work for the gosh-dernt Police! :roll:
It is a FACT that Federal agents command and assist operations ALL the TIME, with state and local Law Enforcement! I worked for an agency for three years, during which time, if the FBI requested evidence, the protocol was to drop all other work to prepare packets for the agent(s). Mine was not field work. I forgot about hiding the agents' faces. They even mask them when they testify in court, when they are undercover people; not all are.
Certainly this changes everything on the 25th: NO SAG actors, but Law Enforcement personnel, only. No secrecy concerns, all officers take an oath for their career. They can be prosecuted and fired for compromising security.
No John Q. Public ride-alongs during a real Op, either, so... There were probably not even real paramedics on board, as police officers are all trained in lifesaving technique, and they were in a fully stocked REAL ambulance then, as well, if things went awry. The only reason real EMTs would be used is if their patient in the vehicle was a genuine "touch and go" patient.
omg, I never let myself think this seriously about this "Death Adventure" of MJ's...
Bec, TS could be pulling our legs, here, but, I have to tell you, THIS :shock: angle makes better sense than ANY theory so far! (Man, I wish I could have beat TS to the punch on this one!! ;) )
Forget about the "Top Secret" business. TS is NOT compromising any operation at this point, two years (almost) later. We still don't know juicy details, like names. We don't even know which crimial activity was being set up for a takedown. ALL we know is that the FBI probably were the ones to spirit MJ away into Invisibility that day. Sometimes magicians work together, what can I say? ;)
Security has not been breeched. TS probably DOES stand for "Top Secret", if he has been sitting on a bomb like this, THIS LONG!! 8-) Holy MOLEY, I have to rethink some things.
This is exactly how police agencies work in tandem with each other. Now, I believe the Hospital Security was involved as well, which I thought was too "messy" before. It is extremely tight and clean that only a few L.E. were involved, including sworn Hospital Security.
:shock: Perhaps the FBI was picking someone UP from hospital, some V.I.P., FOR WPP, and the MAGIC was in all eyes being on
MICHAEL JACKSON :!:
Oh my, this could have global significance!! Perhaps this is the reason for all that "DOUBLES" talk here on the Forum. Maybe MJ was the decoy, :o instead of the other way around!! Man, what a story...
Maybe this is why so many of us have had gut :o feelings to be praying for things to go right and "SAFE HOME", all this time, even though MJ (I thought) has been putting out songs and making feature length and short films, appearing that all is well!
Maybe this is why Ms. Katherine has been so teary-eyed, when interviewed! even though she KNOWS MJ is alive. You know you cried, too, during Oprah.
One of my all time questions, WHAT is she crying real tears about (and :cry: scaring me!) for??? This is why her tears are real.
Ohhh. :| It is coming together, piece by piece, eh?
It ALL makes sense. Hero! 8-) I bet his family, especially DAD, is BURSTING :cry: with pride. :D :D
-
I really don't know if the paramedics would be real, but since the judge and the attorneys are, they probably are also. I just don't know much about the FBI other then what my movie collection shows me. But when you think that the LAPD is involved big time (just look at the memorial) and the FBI is the higher authority, they NEED to be in. But how? I really haven't got a clue...
-
Without quoting anyone specific, I will give my answers here to things that have been asked or stated by several hoax members about the FBI.
First, I am not the one to initiate FBI or government involvement. This is a theory that has been around pretty much from the beginning. Souza has had the FBI on the home page for a long time: "If he has the FBI on his side, a lot can be done." {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/recap_english.php}.
Second, I never said that everyone in the entire FBI organization is involved. I have always said MJ was planning this for years, and got a few key people in a few key positions to cooperate with him. Notice that this is possible with the structure of the FBI: "The article went on to also blame the FBI's decentralized structure which prevented effective communication and cooperation between different FBI offices. The article also claimed that the FBI has still not evolved into an effective counterterrorism or counterintelligence agency, due in large part to deeply ingrained cultural resistance to change within the FBI." {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fbi}.
Third, as I have said a few times already in this thread: the Elvis connection answers much of these objections--including the idea that there would be 100% secrecy, and no clues. Elvis had government help, that is unquestionably established not only from Linda's website--but just about anyone else who talks about the Elvis case. Also, originally Elvis had only six people in on it--and they were not all government agents. Therefore, all the people in all the government agencies were not in on it.
Fourth, if the FBI is involved, why would TS expose this publicly on the internet? Again, look at the Elvis case. Why does Linda's website publicly expose the fact that government agents helped Elvis in the past and recently? Is Linda's website putting anyone in danger? No. Why not? Because the general public has never heard of her website; and of the few who do see it, many still don't believe it. Same for this MJ hoax website. It is not getting millions of hits a day (not yet, anyway :shock: ). Few are watching, most of which are merely forum members here; and even some of those don't believe what I am saying about the FBI.
Fifth, there is more than one way to skin a cat. So let's look at it from the other side of the coin. If the FBI did not help out, then how could the Bel Air station not know something is fishy? Would they sit by quietly, and say nothing, while MJ hired actors and rented an ambulance to look just like the LAFD #71 ambulance? And why would the LAFD Captain say {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggewNtwvHJ4}: "On June 25, 2009, LAFD responded ... our paramedic ..."--if indeed the LAFD did NOT respond, and it was merely actors in a rented ambulance?
Do you think professionals could ALL be bought out for money? And when the truth came out, wouldn't there be serious consequences for all of them? Do you think they would not be charged with abuse of public office--ESPECIALLY if they got paid for it? Can they get out of it all, by saying that it was all just for a movie--and this or that legal loophole squeaks them by? Did you know that legal loopholes do not prevent people from getting charged with a crime? Did you know that loopholes may not even prevent someone from being convicted of a crime? Different people interpret the law differently; that is why there are lawyers and judges and juries.
However, if key people in the FBI are cooperating with LAFD and MJ: then when the truth comes out, all they have to do is show success in catching some public corruption through this process--and all is well that ends well. After all, once again, that is their "top priority among criminal investigations" {http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption}.
Finally: is this hoax a prank, or a Thriller II reality movie, or an ARG, or a sting operation, or a Vendetta, or an NWO/EOW warning, or a wake-up call to the gullible public (don't believe everything in the media), etc--which is it? And the answer is: all of the above! It is something that people have never seen before, at least not the combination of these things and on this scale.
Thank you.
-
Finally: is this hoax a prank, or a Thriller II reality movie, or an ARG, or a sting operation, or a Vendetta, or an NWO/EOW warning, or a wake-up call to the gullible public (don't believe everything in the media), etc--which is it? And the answer is: all of the above! It is something that people have never seen before, at least not the combination of these things and on this scale.
Well now this takes me back full circle to my thoughts on why Police Chief Bratton suddenly announced his resignation in August 2009. I felt then that this hoax had something to do with that and with all that is listed above, I am more convinced now than ever!
Stay Blessed!
OnTheWingsOfLove
-
I still can't foresee the conclusion of this story. Maybe after 20+ months too much data has corrupted my brain and took away my sight. I'm trying to connect some dots here and see the big picture. How will MJ return and what will be presented to the world? Who or what will be expose? I can't imagine just a simple speech in a podium. There's got to be more. In order for all of this to make sense something bigger than a presidential election must transpire.
We know evil is out there...awareness? Maybe something specific or a target? Our beloved MJ can do great things and had done many in the past. Can he break the silence and speak a revelation? I think he can with the help of God. But I'm still blind reading about the FBI involvement with the hoax. Not that I don't believe in their involvement but my stomach is still hungry. I guess I have to wait patiently and take a number. What's next?
(http://www.uslightingproducts.com/images/2dig.gif)
-
@TS - What else can I say except that I totally agree with your last post. I hope we are not wrong, as nothing is 100% sure though.
Finally: is this hoax a prank, or a Thriller II reality movie, or an ARG, or a sting operation, or a Vendetta, or an NWO/EOW warning, or a wake-up call to the gullible public (don't believe everything in the media), etc--which is it? And the answer is: all of the above! It is something that people have never seen before, at least not the combination of these things and on this scale.
I have something to say about this.
I don't think FBI's agenda includes a wake-up call to the gullible public or a prank or an ARG (maybe only for researches about the human behaviour).
That's why, in spite of the fact that FBI involvement might lead us to believe that FBI is the main "actor" in charge with the hoax, I have this feeling that the master of everything is still MJ.
MJ is somehow using FBI for his own agenda but I don't know how he convinced them to be in.
-
Michael told us in TII he wanted to take us places we have never been before, show us talent like we've never seen before...it's all an adventure, nothing to be afraid of......
Well TS.....you mentioned 7 different things this hoax is:
a prank
a movie
an ARG
a sting
a vendetta
a warning
a wake-up call
It is all of that and more. To those who have invested the time and effort on forums, videos, blogs and other online avenues, it's been a life-changing adventure. I feel like I have been in the longest running movie in history with the largest cast ever assembled. Thank you for the post TS. As usual, you make very valid points. With regards to the catching of some public corruption through this process....I lean towards exposing the Doctor Feelgoods of the world. Michael's death has naturally shed a light on that seedy side of life. Just like his arrest shed light on child abuse. What more can he give? HIStory is being written as we type and as we talk. I am blessed to be a very minuscule part of it all.
Blessing to you all and thank you!
-
Of course, I must add that everything still looks like brilliant science-fiction.
-
Thanks heaps TS...the answers were always so simple, and have been there from the start......feel like we are going full circle here...
Remember this article from TMZ...it already suggested that the SWAT team and Los Angeles police department were involved........
"It's the answer to the question you were kinda curious about, then forgot about, but now you're like "Holy cow, I really wanna know -- how did Michael Jackson's body seemingly disappear after his memorial, only to reappear at the cemetery?"
On July 7, 2009 the Staples Center memorial was held in front of thousands of people in downtown L.A. -- Jackson's body was ensconced in a $25,000 red casket.
After the memorial, although hundreds of cameras and thousands of eyes were trained on the exits, no one saw any evidence that the casket left the building. It fueled a grassy knoll-type theory that Jackson's body wasn't really inside the casket and maybe he was still alive.
Finally, our spies have come clean. Jackson's body did indeed arrive in a hearse, but it left in a SWAT van. The van was driven to a secret location, where it rendezvoused with a Forest Lawn van -- which then transported the body to the cemetery without being noticed.
You're welcome".
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=8529&hilit=coffin+mystery+solved (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=8529&hilit=coffin+mystery+solved)
-
"TS_comments" wrote:
Without quoting anyone specific, I will give my answers here to things that have been asked or stated by several hoax members about the FBI.
First, I am not the one to initiate FBI or government involvement. This is a theory that has been around pretty much from the beginning. Souza has had the FBI on the home page for a long time: "If he has the FBI on his side, a lot can be done." {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/recap_english.php}.
I agree.
Second, I never said that everyone in the entire FBI organization is involved. I have always said MJ was planning this for years, and got a few key people in a few key positions to cooperate with him. Notice that this is possible with the structure of the FBI: "The article went on to also blame the FBI's decentralized structure which prevented effective communication and cooperation between different FBI offices. The article also claimed that the FBI has still not evolved into an effective counterterrorism or counterintelligence agency, due in large part to deeply ingrained cultural resistance to change within the FBI." {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fbi}.
I agree.
Third, as I have said a few times already in this thread: the Elvis connection answers much of these objections--including the idea that there would be 100% secrecy, and no clues. Elvis had government help, that is unquestionably established not only from Linda's website--but just about anyone else who talks about the Elvis case. Also, originally Elvis had only six people in on it--and they were not all government agents. Therefore, all the people in all the government agencies were not in on it.
I agree. I have read her website and I also know that he has wrote that he found people from different states that he trusted who were loyal.
http://lindahoodsigmontruth.com/page33 (http://lindahoodsigmontruth.com/page33)
(http://tiptopwebsite.com/photos4/lindahoodsigmoncom/Jessetypedintroductiontothebook.jpg)
Fourth, if the FBI is involved, why would TS expose this publicly on the internet? Again, look at the Elvis case. Why does Linda's website publicly expose the fact that government agents helped Elvis in the past and recently? Is Linda's website putting anyone in danger? No. Why not? Because the general public has never heard of her website; and of the few who do see it, many still don't believe it. Same for this MJ hoax website. It is not getting millions of hits a day (not yet, anyway :shock: ). Few are watching, most of which are merely forum members here; and even some of those don't believe what I am saying about the FBI.
I agree. People don't want to see the truth even if it is slapping them in the face. Denial is their best friend and also it helps to protect him and Linda at the same time. Doubters make this work. This same theory also protects MJ.
Fifth, there is more than one way to skin a cat. So let's look at it from the other side of the coin. If the FBI did not help out, then how could the Bel Air station not know something is fishy? Would they sit by quietly, and say nothing, while MJ hired actors and rented an ambulance to look just like the LAFD #71 ambulance? And why would the LAFD Captain say {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggewNtwvHJ4}: "On June 25, 2009, LAFD responded ... our paramedic ..."--if indeed the LAFD did NOT respond, and it was merely actors in a rented ambulance?
One of my favorite lines! I already said my theory regarding the Fire Captian.
Do you think professionals could ALL be bought out for money? And when the truth came out, wouldn't there be serious consequences for all of them? Do you think they would not be charged with abuse of public office--ESPECIALLY if they got paid for it? Can they get out of it all, by saying that it was all just for a movie--and this or that legal loophole squeaks them by? Did you know that legal loopholes do not prevent people from getting charged with a crime? Did you know that loopholes may not even prevent someone from being convicted of a crime? Different people interpret the law differently; that is why there are lawyers and judges and juries.
:| No comment needed here.
However, if key people in the FBI are cooperating with LAFD and MJ: then when the truth comes out, all they have to do is show success in catching some public corruption through this process--and all is well that ends well. After all, once again, that is their "top priority among criminal investigations" {http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption}.
I agree.
Finally: is this hoax a prank, or a Thriller II reality movie, or an ARG, or a sting operation, or a Vendetta, or an NWO/EOW warning, or a wake-up call to the gullible public (don't believe everything in the media), etc--which is it? And the answer is: all of the above! It is something that people have never seen before, at least not the combination of these things and on this scale.
I agree 100% on this. Reality TV is the thing to do now a days. I agree this has never been done on this scale with the topics being presented.
Thanks for your patience and answers TS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_television (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_television)
Reality television is a genre of television programming that presents purportedly unscripted dramatic or humorous situations, documents actual events, and usually features ordinary people instead of professional actors, sometimes in a contest or other situation where a prize is awarded.The genre has existed in some form or another since the early years of television, began in earnest as a television formula in the 1990s, and exploded as a global phenomenon around 1999-2000, via series such as Big Brother and Survivor. Programs in the reality television genre are commonly called reality shows and often are produced in series. Documentaries and nonfictional programming such as news and sports shows are usually not classified as reality shows.
The genre covers a wide range of programming formats, from game or quiz shows which resemble the frantic, often demeaning shows produced in Japan in the 1980s and 1990s (such as Gaki no tsukai), to surveillance- or voyeurism-focused productions such as Big Brother.
Reality television frequently portrays a modified and highly influenced form of reality, utilizing sensationalism to attract viewers and so to generate advertising profits. Participants are often placed in exotic locations or abnormal situations, and are sometimes coached to act in specific scripted ways by off-screen "story editors" or "segment producers," with the portrayal of events and speech manipulated and contrived to create an illusion of reality through editing and other post-production techniques.
-
Do you think professionals could ALL be bought out for money? And when the truth came out, wouldn't there be serious consequences for all of them? Do you think they would not be charged with abuse of public office--ESPECIALLY if they got paid for it?Can they get out of it all, by saying that it was all just for a movie--and this or that legal loophole squeaks them by? Did you know that legal loopholes do not prevent people from getting charged with a crime? Did you know that loopholes may not even prevent someone from being convicted of a crime? Different people interpret the law differently; that is why there are lawyers and judges and juries.
I need some clearance on this, as this thing interests me the most. Legality.
1."Do you think professionals could ALL be bought out for money?"- were they brought out for money, in first place? that means FBI's proffesionals are used with corruption, because why would you pay them to do your work if you need them for a correct purpose?(I'm not talking about salary here)
2."Do you think they would not be charged with abuse of public office--ESPECIALLY if they got paid for it?"- Again, FBI is used to reveal corruption but they are used via corruption themselves?I don't understand. Being paid for it IS corruption (I'm not talking about salary or being paid for your work here, you understand what I mean?)
3."Can they get out of it all, by saying that it was all just for a movie--and this or that legal loophole squeaks them by? Did you know that legal loopholes do not prevent people from getting charged with a crime? Did you know that loopholes may not even prevent someone from being convicted of a crime? "- Again, who commited a crime? Michael or the ones involved (being paid for doing something against law)?
-
TS
Finally: is this hoax a prank, or a Thriller II reality movie, or an ARG, or a sting operation, or a Vendetta, or an NWO/EOW warning, or a wake-up call to the gullible public (don't believe everything in the media), etc--which is it? And the answer is: all of the above! It is something that people have never seen before, at least not the combination of these things and on this scale.
That's why we've been glued to our computer chairs all this time. :shock: :) And it's just so out there that nobody else will believe this is huge. They've been innoculated.
wishingstar, cool that there's 7 things TS gave as to what the hoax is. Something you said made me stop and think.
"Just like his arrest shed light on child abuse". Its Her hinted at something else going down back then and I agree, just as Bec thinks about the Pepsi fire incident, there's a larger purpose that is mind-blowing, and it's going about things different than any person would ever think to do it. It's like laying down your life and reputation, so that others can have life, laying it down voluntarily for love. If having the world hate him as a pedofile would help the world focus on the plight of millions of children who are horrifically treated, he would do it. We don't even understand a love like that. Doesn't he care about his reputation? He has entrusted it into God's care, for God to give vengeance, but he is heaping coals of fire on the heads of those who revile him. The world has had their time to spit on him, make fun of him, but the seed has been planted and will yeild a harvest unprecedented of good overcoming evil.
God does play a huge factor in this. For those who believe in the spiritual side should recognize what Michael the Archangel means to the following people below. I am not meaning for this to go this direction but it is something that I find relevant when it comes to Michael and his influence over the police, etc. The first link does have some dyslexic typos in the name Michael, lol. This has been talked about before on this forum many times. Michael has also had paintings done of himself playing the role of Archangel.
http://www.publicsafety.net/st_micheal.htm (http://www.publicsafety.net/st_micheal.htm)
The Public Safety Net
Saint Micheal The Archangel
The Patron Saint of the Police Officers, Paramedics & E.M.T.'s
http://www.policecoins.com/saintmichael.html (http://www.policecoins.com/saintmichael.html)
(http://www.policecoins.com/images/SaintMichael170.jpg)
Saint Michael, the Patron Saint of Law Enforcement
As protector and defender against evil, Saint Michael is the patron saint for law enforcement, and among the most common of the icons used on police coins. He is usually depicted as a winged knight-warrior, wearing battle armor. He wields a sword and holds scales of justice, while standing triumphantly over a fallen Lucifer.
Ok that is all for me on that subject. I would like to see more theories or opinions on the paramedics and the question TS has asked us recently.
Peace
For me it always comes back to this and much more. Im_convinced, you know what I feel about all this. It's the only answer that satisfies what I feel in my heart. Jesus told Pilate, "You would have no authority unless it had been given from above." And one of the redirects was Daniel saying, "God shut the mouths of the lions and they have not hurt me."
So I can see then that like TS says only a few good people need to be knowing from the FBI, a few good people from the LAPD, a few from UCLA, a few from TII production, a few from Sony/AEG, a few from the media, a few good friends, his family (I'm guessing all). It seems to me to be rather of a miraculous nature that all these people have kept their mouths shut as well, and because of the way the hoax has been created, even if individual guess things or spill too many beans, that nobody believes them anyway. Perhaps coupling with God's provision of these key people, God has also put a veil over the eyes of the world to not see things clearly. Throughout the Bible God is said to have a veil over all people until the right (end) time when He takes the veil away and people can see. (I've written a post about that and the veil pulled back in the painting of Michael with the book and key.)
by Yambo3003 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:13 am
I still can't foresee the conclusion of this story. Maybe after 20+ months too much data has corrupted my brain and took away my sight. I'm trying to connect some dots here and see the big picture. How will MJ return and what will be presented to the world? Who or what will be expose? I can't imagine just a simple speech in a podium. There's got to be more. In order for all of this to make sense something bigger than a presidential election must transpire.
We know evil is out there...awareness? Maybe something specific or a target? Our beloved MJ can do great things and had done many in the past. Can he break the silence and speak a revelation? I think he can with the help of God. But I'm still blind reading about the FBI involvement with the hoax. Not that I don't believe in their involvement but my stomach is still hungry. I guess I have to wait patiently and take a number. What's next?
IMO something on a Biblical Revelation scale.
-
I know TS said this hoax is because of many things but TS didn't say it was also because MJ was in danger? So is MJ not in danger or was never in danger?
This is not an important question but TS said that it was also a prank, who is it a prank to? I know MJ liked doing pranks but why is that one of the reasons? I am not trying to single out that reason or take it out of context but it just interests me.
-
I know TS said this hoax is because of many things but TS didn't say it was also because MJ was in danger? So is MJ not in danger or was never in danger?
This is not an important question but TS said that it was also a prank, who is it a prank to? I know MJ liked doing pranks but why is that one of the reasons? I am not trying to single out that reason or take it out of context but it just interests me.
Sorry, but I don't buy that he would make people/fans suffer unnecessarily just for a joke.! It has to be something more serious than that....
Remember, his children are playing a part in this too, and I don't think MJ would make them lie, just for fun. This has caused pain to many people, on many levels.
I stand by the thought that he didn't have a choice...do or die.
The rest of what is going on, is just an aftermath that just keeps snowballing...going with the flow. Too many people would have to be involved on a grander scale, so I think alot of what we have been reading in the tabloids, people writing books etc, is just part and parcel after a death of a celebrity..
I know MJ was crowned an "African King" and he has many good contacts in Saudi Arabia, and the Nation of Islam. I suspect he has alot of options for protection reasons.
The only question I have left, is WHY ???? What would be so urgent/important enough to have to go through all of this??
I THINK IT"S BIGGER THAN ANY OF US REALLY IMAGINED...
OBAMA....Corruption, Devastation of Mass proportions, one world Government, major natural disasters....are these all man-made??? What does MJ know that we don't???
-
Do you think MJ was approached first by the FBI or he approached them? Because how does this process really work?
Some have said they don't buy that MJ is working with the FBI which I think he is because it's the only way it could be pulled off...but just say MJ approached them doesn't that mean MJ has to adhere to their rules or maybe if they approached him then I guess he could be in control somewhat or allow for there to be clues.
-
Thank you TS! This is what i believe this hoax is for, a TREMENDOUS purpose. I think that people have doubts about the FBI thing because the reasons for the hoax are not 100% believed but if you really think that the end of this world is coming, that it is NOT a joke, then it changes the perspective from which you are seeing things. I think the "prank" part is "Michael faked his death" and the little funny clues we receive like toys placed on the desk of the judge for example, the entertainment thing.
If the purpose was to catch some thieves why include us in the process? If we are here debating about that in this very forum it is because it concerns us all. The NWO has an evil agenda, this is very real and it is coming to its peak. The devil knows that his end is near hence he's hastening his plans, big world events will occur more and more often, just look around.
I am sure that God has placed his pawns carefully in the world chessboard so why not some FBI agents...and the numerology proves it. It is certainly not the whole FBI agency that is involved because we know by whom it is controlled. There's still a lot we don't know about this hoax hence we still don't have a full coherent theory.
-
Do you think MJ was approached first by the FBI or he approached them? Because how does this process really work?
Some have said they don't buy that MJ is working with the FBI which I think he is because it's the only way it could be pulled off...but just say MJ approached them doesn't that mean MJ has to adhere to their rules or maybe if they approached him then I guess he could be in control somewhat or allow for there to be clues.
Do you notice how almost all of the family have said publically that MJ was murdered for his catalogue??
And since, many other have come forward and said the same thing....all this time, we have been waiting for something to be done about it. You can't just throw accusations out there, and not have any consequences...
Remember the leaked tapes of MJ asking for "Sunscreen" in the account, and that he was afraid, that he thinks he is the "Italian Mafia" or something like that.
Personally, if I was afraid for my life, I would be contacting the police immediately. Were these threats for real, and MJ did something about it?? Who wanted him dead?
Follow the money trail..isn't that what Joe Jackson and Leonard Rowe said ??
Michael Jackson & Julien’s Auctions Lawsuit Update, Claims of Threats:
“Lives Are At Stake and There Will Be Bloodshed”
March 24, 2009
As widely reported in the mainstream media, Michael Jackson has filed a lawsuit against Julien’s Auctions for the return of personal property from the Neverland Ranch that was consigned to the auction house with a sale planned for April 22-April 25, 2009 in Beverly Hills. Fox News now reports on claims of threats made against Darren Julien and partner Martin Nolan by a Jackson associate.
The full report can be found at FoxNews.com (Claim: Jacko’s Rep Threatened Harm From Nation of Islam): Read more here....
http://www.originalprop.com/blog/2009/0 ... bloodshed/ (http://www.originalprop.com/blog/2009/03/24/michael-jackson-juliens-auctions-lawsuit-update-claims-of-threats-lives-are-at-stake-and-there-will-be-bloodshed/)
Could this be the reason he needed the FBI involved ????
-
This is a fantastic thread. I'm not going with the professionals being bought out either, too litigious. The idea that Michael was in danger is something that's been pushed by the family and the man himself for so long now. Jermaine and LaToya in particular have constantly told us that the truth will come out, so we await the trial and its outcome even more impatiently. I wouldn't be surprised if something spectacular was in the works.
-
Do you think MJ was approached first by the FBI or he approached them? Because how does this process really work?
Some have said they don't buy that MJ is working with the FBI which I think he is because it's the only way it could be pulled off...but just say MJ approached them doesn't that mean MJ has to adhere to their rules or maybe if they approached him then I guess he could be in control somewhat or allow for there to be clues.
My guess is MJ approached them.
-
Do you notice how almost all of the family have said publically that MJ was murdered for his catalogue??
This still doesn't make too much sense to me :? MJ is dead or "dead" now, so do they get that most-wanted catalogue now? NO!!
I think this is non-sense, but maybe I am wrong.
-
"
TS
Finally: is this hoax a prank, or a Thriller II reality movie, or an ARG, or a sting operation, or a Vendetta, or an NWO/EOW warning, or a wake-up call to the gullible public (don't believe everything in the media), etc--which is it? And the answer is: all of the above! It is something that people have never seen before, at least not the combination of these things and on this scale.
That's why we've been glued to our computer chairs all this time. :shock: :) And it's just so out there that nobody else will believe this is huge. They've been innoculated.
wishingstar, cool that there's 7 things TS gave as to what the hoax is. Something you said made me stop and think.
"Just like his arrest shed light on child abuse". Its Her hinted at something else going down back then and I agree, just as Bec thinks about the Pepsi fire incident, there's a larger purpose that is mind-blowing, and it's going about things different than any person would ever think to do it. It's like laying down your life and reputation, so that others can have life, laying it down voluntarily for love. If having the world hate him as a pedofile would help the world focus on the plight of millions of children who are horrifically treated, he would do it. We don't even understand a love like that. Doesn't he care about his reputation? He has entrusted it into God's care, for God to give vengeance, but he is heaping coals of fire on the heads of those who revile him. The world has had their time to spit on him, make fun of him, but the seed has been planted and will yeild a harvest unprecedented of good overcoming evil.
God does play a huge factor in this. For those who believe in the spiritual side should recognize what Michael the Archangel means to the following people below. I am not meaning for this to go this direction but it is something that I find relevant when it comes to Michael and his influence over the police, etc. The first link does have some dyslexic typos in the name Michael, lol. This has been talked about before on this forum many times. Michael has also had paintings done of himself playing the role of Archangel.
http://www.publicsafety.net/st_micheal.htm (http://www.publicsafety.net/st_micheal.htm)
The Public Safety Net
Saint Micheal The Archangel
The Patron Saint of the Police Officers, Paramedics & E.M.T.'s
http://www.policecoins.com/saintmichael.html (http://www.policecoins.com/saintmichael.html)
(http://www.policecoins.com/images/SaintMichael170.jpg)
Saint Michael, the Patron Saint of Law Enforcement
As protector and defender against evil, Saint Michael is the patron saint for law enforcement, and among the most common of the icons used on police coins. He is usually depicted as a winged knight-warrior, wearing battle armor. He wields a sword and holds scales of justice, while standing triumphantly over a fallen Lucifer.
Ok that is all for me on that subject. I would like to see more theories or opinions on the paramedics and the question TS has asked us recently.
Peace
For me it always comes back to this and much more. Im_convinced, you know what I feel about all this. It's the only answer that satisfies what I feel in my heart. Jesus told Pilate, "You would have no authority unless it had been given from above." And one of the redirects was Daniel saying, "God shut the mouths of the lions and they have not hurt me."
So I can see then that like TS says only a few good people need to be knowing from the FBI, a few good people from the LAPD, a few from UCLA, a few from TII production, a few from Sony/AEG, a few from the media, a few good friends, his family (I'm guessing all). It seems to me to be rather of a miraculous nature that all these people have kept their mouths shut as well, and because of the way the hoax has been created, even if individual guess things or spill too many beans, that nobody believes them anyway. Perhaps coupling with God's provision of these key people, God has also put a veil over the eyes of the world to not see things clearly. Throughout the Bible God is said to have a veil over all people until the right (end) time when He takes the veil away and people can see. (I've written a post about that and the veil pulled back in the painting of Michael with the book and key.)
by Yambo3003 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:13 am
I still can't foresee the conclusion of this story. Maybe after 20+ months too much data has corrupted my brain and took away my sight. I'm trying to connect some dots here and see the big picture. How will MJ return and what will be presented to the world? Who or what will be expose? I can't imagine just a simple speech in a podium. There's got to be more. In order for all of this to make sense something bigger than a presidential election must transpire.
We know evil is out there...awareness? Maybe something specific or a target? Our beloved MJ can do great things and had done many in the past. Can he break the silence and speak a revelation? I think he can with the help of God. But I'm still blind reading about the FBI involvement with the hoax. Not that I don't believe in their involvement but my stomach is still hungry. I guess I have to wait patiently and take a number. What's next?
IMO something on a Biblical Revelation scale.
It's like laying down your life and reputation, so that others can have life, laying it down voluntarily for love.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2Jy1J8n ... re=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2Jy1J8nvTw&feature=related) This reminds me of a line from "What More can I give"
@1.23 MJ words from this song sums it up for me, wonderful lyrics so much LOVE FOR THE WORLD
sorry it wond embed for me :oops: :oops:
How many people will have to die before we will take a stand
How many children will have to cry, before we do all we can
If sending your love is all you can give
To help one live, mmm
How many times can we turn our heads
And pretend we cannot see
Healing the wounds of our broken earth
We are one global family
Just sending your prayers
Is something you feel
Helping one heal
What have I got that I can give
(What have I got that I can give, tell me)
What have I got that I can give, yeah, oh
To love and to teach you
To hold and to need you
What more can I give (what more can I give, yeah)
brother to brother, lay down our fears and reach out and make a pact
Show him the love that is in our hearts, let us bring salvation back
Just sending your love has the power to heal
So let's all give
What have I got that I can give
(It's not a lot to give, just a little bit)
What have I got that I can give
(Everyone should be a part of it)
To love and to teach you
To hold and to need you
What more can I give
Say the words, I'll lay 'e down for you
Just call my name, I am your friend
See then why do they keep teaching us
Such hate and cruelty
We should give over and over again
What have I got that I can give
(We should give over and over again)
What have I got that I can give
(Oh my God, oh my God)
See, to love and to teach you
To hold and to need you
What more can I give
What have I got that I can give (aah)
What have I got that I can give
(Give to you, give to you)
See, to love and to teach you
To hold and to need you
What more can I give (Oooh)
Repeat
What have I got that I can give
(Give to you, we're gonna give to you)
What have I got that I can give
To hold and conceal you
To love and to heal you
What more can I give
What have I got that I can give
(What have I got)
(Send them your prayers)
What have I got that I can give
(Show the world how much you really care)
(To love you)
To love and to teach you
(To hold you, to need you)To hold and to need you
What more can I give
What have I got that I can give...
-
remember this?
http://www.tmz.com/category/jackson-fbi-files/ (http://www.tmz.com/category/jackson-fbi-files/)
-
“Lives Are At Stake and There Will Be Bloodshed”
March 24, 2009
As widely reported in the mainstream media, Michael Jackson has filed a lawsuit against Julien’s Auctions for the return of personal property from the Neverland Ranch that was consigned to the auction house with a sale planned for April 22-April 25, 2009 in Beverly Hills. Fox News now reports on claims of threats made against Darren Julien and partner Martin Nolan by a Jackson associate.
The full report can be found at FoxNews.com (Claim: Jacko’s Rep Threatened Harm From Nation of Islam): Read more here....
http://www.originalprop.com/blog/2009/0 ... bloodshed/ (http://www.originalprop.com/blog/2009/03/24/michael-jackson-juliens-auctions-lawsuit-update-claims-of-threats-lives-are-at-stake-and-there-will-be-bloodshed/)
Could this be the reason he needed the FBI involved ????
I was reading about the NOI when I jumped to this thread.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_of_Islam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_of_Islam)
Questioning myslef about both FBI and NOI in regards to MJ.
-
seems like i caught the tail end of something recently with a connection of farrakhan, jerimiah wright and gadaphi (forgive the boo boos i have lost my spell check and can't firgure how to get it back :lol: :oops: ). one thing that always stood out to me was that fist at the 02 announcement. right around the time he seemed to be acting angry but i also notice in the very last seconds he has the fist and then sort of symbolicly throws it into the air and waves smiling.
-
Without quoting anyone specific, I will give my answers here to things that have been asked or stated by several hoax members about the FBI.
First, I am not the one to initiate FBI or government involvement. This is a theory that has been around pretty much from the beginning. Souza has had the FBI on the home page for a long time: "If he has the FBI on his side, a lot can be done." {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/recap_english.php}.
Hey TS. I had mentioned that you brought up the FBI - I meant in this thread but not in general to the hoax as the FBI has been discussed before. It seemed to me that's where you wanted this discussion to go, which is why you brought it up here when no one else did. You gave the clue several pages ago on this thread:
Several people are generally on the right track, including this quoted comment here and the one before it {by MsTrinity333, viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=150#p312205 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=150#p312205)}. So I am now going to drop a huge clue. Actually, I thought someone would find this before now, especially with the timing clue that I gave when I posted the beginning of this thread (MsTrinity333 :o ).
Here is your big clue: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption)
So I think you wanted us to come to the conclusion that the LAFD and FBI are in cahoots with Michael, so to speak?
Second, I never said that everyone in the entire FBI organization is involved. I have always said MJ was planning this for years, and got a few key people in a few key positions to cooperate with him. Notice that this is possible with the structure of the FBI: "The article went on to also blame the FBI's decentralized structure which prevented effective communication and cooperation between different FBI offices. The article also claimed that the FBI has still not evolved into an effective counterterrorism or counterintelligence agency, due in large part to deeply ingrained cultural resistance to change within the FBI." {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fbi}.
I would think that if the FBI is involved, it would be a small but effective group of people who know very much what they're doing and how to get it done under the radar. For some reason, the FBI reminds me of the 1950s. Maybe their old-school way of thinking hasn't progressed with the times as it should, why they haven't evolved into their potential..?
Third, as I have said a few times already in this thread: the Elvis connection answers much of these objections--including the idea that there would be 100% secrecy, and no clues. Elvis had government help, that is unquestionably established not only from Linda's website--but just about anyone else who talks about the Elvis case. Also, originally Elvis had only six people in on it--and they were not all government agents. Therefore, all the people in all the government agencies were not in on it.
When I first started reading up on the possibility that Elvis faked his death a while back, it actually made so much sense and suddenly those people who insisted Elvis is alive didn't seem so silly. This link was one of the first I read when I started researching. http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/fo ... opic=26943 (http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=26943)
Fourth, if the FBI is involved, why would TS expose this publicly on the internet? Again, look at the Elvis case. Why does Linda's website publicly expose the fact that government agents helped Elvis in the past and recently? Is Linda's website putting anyone in danger? No. Why not? Because the general public has never heard of her website; and of the few who do see it, many still don't believe it. Same for this MJ hoax website. It is not getting millions of hits a day (not yet, anyway :shock: ). Few are watching, most of which are merely forum members here; and even some of those don't believe what I am saying about the FBI.
Ya I agree that exposing the FBI's involvement isn't going to really make an impact in a big way. We're the crazy ones, right? :lol: Anyone who stumbles along this site will shake their heads or roll their eyes...unless they actually start to think about what's written.
Fifth, there is more than one way to skin a cat. So let's look at it from the other side of the coin. If the FBI did not help out, then how could the Bel Air station not know something is fishy? Would they sit by quietly, and say nothing, while MJ hired actors and rented an ambulance to look just like the LAFD #71 ambulance? And why would the LAFD Captain say {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggewNtwvHJ4}: "On June 25, 2009, LAFD responded ... our paramedic ..."--if indeed the LAFD did NOT respond, and it was merely actors in a rented ambulance?
Do you think professionals could ALL be bought out for money? And when the truth came out, wouldn't there be serious consequences for all of them? Do you think they would not be charged with abuse of public office--ESPECIALLY if they got paid for it? Can they get out of it all, by saying that it was all just for a movie--and this or that legal loophole squeaks them by? Did you know that legal loopholes do not prevent people from getting charged with a crime? Did you know that loopholes may not even prevent someone from being convicted of a crime? Different people interpret the law differently; that is why there are lawyers and judges and juries.
However, if key people in the FBI are cooperating with LAFD and MJ: then when the truth comes out, all they have to do is show success in catching some public corruption through this process--and all is well that ends well. After all, once again, that is their "top priority among criminal investigations" {http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption}.
The LAFD's involvement or uninvolvement is still a mystery to me. I've looked at it so many ways, thanks to all the replies in this thread. Maybe the paramedics were undercover FBI agents who had been with station 71 for a couple of months or something, their sole purpose to participate in the events of June 25th - do we know if these paramedics still work there? I just don't understand how the paramedics could NOT be involved in some way because of the ambulance photo and then what they said at the prelim about not recognizing MJ. It wouldn't be hard for the FBI to plant a couple of their agents in as paramedics, the actual station itself may not have even been aware of what was going on.
And I think it would actually be quite sloppy to just think everyone could be bribed to go along with everything for money. What's to stop a person from demanding more money, or selling the story for even bigger amount? Money corrupts, makes people greedy. Obviously there is a lot of money being made, but I really don't think that's the main motivator behind the hoax.
I'm thinking the Michael isn't an agent, but if he is, he'd be some sort of special agent, and not the same kind of special agents the FBI has. Michael holds a lot of power, throughout the whole world and that's quite important to remember. He has a ton of influence, knows a LOT of people and is most likely aware of things that many would not be privy to. Perhaps he is helping the FBI (the select few he feels he can trust) in exchange for their help. No one would suspect that he is Agent M. Or he could've also approached someone in the FBI for help and had information to back himself up.
Finally: is this hoax a prank, or a Thriller II reality movie, or an ARG, or a sting operation, or a Vendetta, or an NWO/EOW warning, or a wake-up call to the gullible public (don't believe everything in the media), etc--which is it? And the answer is: all of the above! It is something that people have never seen before, at least not the combination of these things and on this scale.
I agree very much! This hoax never had just one reason and the reasons you've mentioned is what makes complete sense to me and what I tell people when they ask why Michael would've faked his death. And if anyone on Earth is capable of something this massive, it's Michael.
-
..."Discover the Man you never KNEW"... ;)
-
seems like i caught the tail end of something recently with a connection of farrakhan, jerimiah wright and gadaphi (forgive the boo boos i have lost my spell check and can't firgure how to get it back :lol: :oops: ). one thing that always stood out to me was that fist at the 02 announcement. right around the time he seemed to be acting angry but i also notice in the very last seconds he has the fist and then sort of symbolicly throws it into the air and waves smiling.
We discussed those "guys" in other threads.
About the O2 conference, still no clarification if was MJ or a decoy, but throwing the fist has a significance and many symbolisms can apply.
In deed, feels like being in a washing machine, going in circles.
As Sócrates would say: I only know one thing that i know Nothing
-
Finally: is this hoax a prank, or a Thriller II reality movie, or an ARG, or a sting operation, or a Vendetta, or an NWO/EOW warning, or a wake-up call to the gullible public (don't believe everything in the media), etc--which is it? And the answer is: all of the above! It is something that people have never seen before, at least not the combination of these things and on this scale.
By reading your posts, I find out that I totally understood so well about the whys and hows of the hoax. I've been telling about these all to people for almost 17 months from now. Some people are having a hard time to accept how MJ could pull all of these things at the same time. I know that people are annoyed when I say they are underestimating Michael, his power and his connections but the truth speaks for itself here. Michael is killing lots of birds with a single stone. Thank you for this informative and brilliant post TS. Hope it helps some of the hoaxers to see the bigger picture. Blessings.
-
seems like i caught the tail end of something recently with a connection of farrakhan, jerimiah wright and gadaphi (forgive the boo boos i have lost my spell check and can't firgure how to get it back :lol: :oops: ). one thing that always stood out to me was that fist at the 02 announcement. right around the time he seemed to be acting angry but i also notice in the very last seconds he has the fist and then sort of symbolicly throws it into the air and waves smiling.
We discussed those "guys" in other threads.
About the O2 conference, still no clarification if was MJ or a decoy, but throwing the fist has a significance and many symbolisms can apply.
In deed, feels like being in a washing machine, going in circles.
As Sócrates would say: I only know one thing that i know Nothing
collectively? do you remember where?
-
Way back in the old Mj hoax forum we had a blog going saying the feds,where in on this. Thank you TS for your information it totally makes sense,because if they are not involved and MJ is alive there will be a lot of trouble to deal with for a hoax this big just look what happened to the balloon boy saga,his dad ended up in jail and owes money for fines,that was a small hoax.
FORT COLLINS, Colo. -- The Colorado man who admitted orchestrating the balloon boy hoax reported to jail Monday to begin a 90-day jail sentence.
Richard Heene pleaded guilty to attempting to influence a public servant after the Oct. 15 saga that captivated a national television audience.
But Heene now says he truly believed his 6-year-old son Falcon was inside the balloon and that he pleaded guilty only to appease authorities and save his wife from being deported to Japan.
Mayumi Heene confessed to deputies, authorities said, and she pleaded guilty to filing a false report. She faces 20 days in the Larimer County jail.
Richard Heene told The Associated Press last week that his wife misunderstood the meaning of the word "hoax" when she purportedly confessed.
"My wife's first language is Japanese, not English," Heene said. "My wife came home in tears wondering what she might have said. She opened this Japanese-to-English dictionary, and she walks up to me crying her head off, and she says to me, 'I thought hoax meant an exhibition."'
Sign up for KTLA 5 Breaking News Email Alerts
In other interviews last week, Heene said investigators presented inconsistencies to the media, and he denied calling a TV station before dialing 911, as authorities said he did.
Authorities dismissed Heene's arguments.
District Attorney Larry Abrahamson said it was the Heenes and their attorneys, not prosecutors, who brought up the issue of deportation.
"We had been working with the attorneys for both he and his wife before charges were even filed," he said. "There was a lot of discussion about what was going to happen, about how and why. We were surprised that now he's coming out and saying that it wasn't a hoax."
Sheriff Jim Alderden said Mayumi Heene understands English better than her husband says she does.
"The interview was much more than, 'Mayumi, is this a hoax?' and she admitted to it. She went into the details of it," Alderden told the AP last week.
Mayumi Heene's statement to sheriff's investigators - in which she detailed the couple's efforts to pitch a television show, their financial difficulties, and their actions in the weeks leading up to the event - that make up the bulk of the case against the couple.
The Heenes must also pay restitution for the rescue effort that sent officers from two counties and other agencies scrambling. The Colorado National Guard launched two helicopters to track the balloon and possibly rescue the boy. Prosecutors estimate the Heenes owe $48,000, though Richard Heene's attorney could provide a different estimate by a Jan. 25 deadline.
Richard Heene also faces an $11,000 civil penalty from the Federal Aviation Administration. The balloon briefly shut down a runway at Denver International Airport.
He must serve 30 days before he can participate in the jail's work release program.
I would hate to see what they would do to MJ,if they are not involved,the money they used with the police,helicopters,ambulances,the lawyers,court time the price would be astronomical. They would lock him up and throw away the key for this big a hoax. But now if they lock up a bunch of crooked politicians,and businessmen,and Dr. Feelgoods all because of the hoax,it was all worth it. People will learn don't take everything you see on television is the truth as well. I have 1 question for TS and it has to do with something you wrote,you said after the Bam,What you have just witnessed could be the end of a particularly terrifying nightmare.
It isn’t. It’s the beginning. What lies after the hoax is revealed?
-
Hi Guys I just took a look at TS posting time/date: March 17, 2011 at 12:17 the day 3+1+7=11 the year 2011 (11), the time 1+2+1+7=11. 11/11/11 is Veteran's Day in the U.S. (also Rememberance Day in AU and CAN, Armistice Day in FR). Veteran's Day is a legal holiday in the U.S. honoring all veterans of the armed forces. Just wanted to throw that out there. Take care, Love to All
-
Finally: is this hoax a prank, or a Thriller II reality movie, or an ARG, or a sting operation, or a Vendetta, or an NWO/EOW warning, or a wake-up call to the gullible public (don't believe everything in the media), etc--which is it? And the answer is: all of the above! It is something that people have never seen before, at least not the combination of these things and on this scale.
Well now this takes me back full circle to my thoughts on why Police Chief Bratton suddenly announced his resignation in August 2009. I felt then that this hoax had something to do with that and with all that is listed above, I am more convinced now than ever!
Stay Blessed!
OnTheWingsOfLove
I think there's a lot to be said about the man we never knew. Here's some points of conversation I kept notes on with a YT friend over a yr ago when we were discussing Federal involvement among other things:
* "Here's a reminder: Bratton announced his resignation Aug 5. His staff, the Mayor, the City Council was all taken by surprise and in interviews some were NOT happy about it. Bratton had 2 yrs. left on his contract gave 2 mo. notice. The same day Altergity Security, an international security firm announced Bratton would be taking a position with them. Altegrity Security Consulting "is involved in Criminal Justice program support". Altegrity is owned by Providence Equity Partners "the world's leading private equity firm focused on media, entertainment, and communications” …the position he took with Altegrity was created in July 2009 the month before he announced his resignation."
* "I think Phil Anschutz and Tom Barack have shady business pasts too, and apparently go back a long ways. I think MJ was coerced into this from the beginning. Did you know Barak (Colony Capitol) owns 1200 acres adjacent to Neverland, that he is heavily invested in gambling in Nevada and had plans for "Thriller themed" casinos on Neverland? Think MJ went along with that?"
* "I think MJ went to someone high up in law enforcement for help--coercion & racketeering (one of the criteria for Witness Protection), then the request for a favor in return-assisting the DEA. Putting the 2 together explains everything & nothing else does. Witness Protection ends once the threat has past, so we may see him again."
* "Tom Barrak is One of Tohme Tohme's many identities is of a US citizen of Lebanese decent raised in LA. Fresh out of USC law school Barrak was sent by his employer to Saudi Arabia for 4 1/2 years. Tohme has another identity as an orthopedic surgeon from Saudi Arabia. Both men are in their early 60s. Tom Barrak/Colony Capital is heavily invested in gambling. Very long story short, those investments were not paying off. According to NBC he was charged with realestate fraud and making threats in the 90s. He goes on to tell AP he was working with others to renegotiate the terms of MJs main assets: the Sony/ATV catalog & the MiJac catalog that owns MJs own music."
On the Elvis parallels:
* "It looks highly likely Elvis is Jessie and LMP knows it, and so would MJ; esp if he's following in Elvis' footsteps (FBI & DEA?!) and is involved taking these racketeers & doctors down; hence the 'death' & possible witness protection. WOW. Blows your mind doesn't it. This is a long way from Wako Jacko. *wink wink"
* "They are going after doctors to the stars in Miami, Florida, Las Vegas, Nevada, and LA. That's a large number of doctors some who treated him 5 or 10 years ago. The aim is not to find the doc who is responsible but to go after a network of prescribing docs. The death was one of the few ways to go into these offices and demand records unless a patient goes to the Police about a doctor and even then it is hard to get in and get records."
And from another poster:
* "I truly believe that he is working with the government - the DEA comment is likely because all the doctors acted like they wanted to kill each other. You see that with physicians when they are under pressure and scrutiny and want to clear their name. It is against all policies to discuss your patient in public. You may make a statement such as “He died at 2pm from trauma to the chest" etc. These docs are talking about personal things that happen in their offices with this patient. That should be protected like fort knox. There is a reason for this discussion. I think it is fear. Why are the docs afraid? They did not give the meds that day? The doc who did is not talking."
Here's a video I just watched. Not sure what to make of it. Intriguing though...
[youtube:zf5xwz4i]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRg2DxWHk5c[/youtube:zf5xwz4i]
-
Hi me again....also:
by TS » Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:30 am
TIAI Revealed, Part 9: Today is 12-21-2009 (R49)
In this final part, we are going to be examining once again the “2012” film—especially as it relates to the concept of the end of the world on 12-21-2012, which is exactly three years from today. The “2012” movie story starts in the year 2009, and ends in 2012.
The “four years” that MJ mentioned in TII started in the spring of 2009 (when the “This Is It” concerts were in the planning stages); so we have already gone through the first year. You could also think of the four years as ending on 9-9-09, 10-10-10, 11-11-11, and 12-12-12 (ten day countdown to 12-21-12). Of course these are a little more than a year apart; but they are interesting numerology milestones in the four year process.
This Is It 111 Minutes long
April 21, 2011 111th day of the year ( 7+7+7=21)
Tabloid Junkie mentioned in TS Update 5C(Do you think for yourself), Metronome set at 111 beats per minute.
11/1-1/11 or (11/1) (1/11)
That's all. This number has me crazy...can you tell. Take care, I am going for a walk!
-
Fourth, speaking of update #4, that was my most detailed numerology post; and #4a was posted one year ago today (CA time), which was six months after 9-9-09. :geek: And fifth, speaking of numerology, it’s now time to start looking at how numerology unlocks and explains some of the hows of the hoax (in addition to explaining the when and why, which I have already discussed in great detail).
The next level means that we are now going to shift the focus from the ambulance picture (whether it was real or fake, etc) to whether or not some or all of the paramedics are in on the hoax. Did the actual paramedics pose for a staged ambulance shot before 6-25-09? Or did MJ use actors dressed like paramedics? Was the ambulance photo staged with the actual #71 LAFD ambulance, or another one that looks about the same inside? Would the real paramedics publicly deny the ambulance photo, if it was not them in the picture (and they were not in on the hoax)?
These and similar questions are now the focus of investigation. Yes, we have already discussed these things to some extent; but it has not been the focus before now. You may continue discussing the ambulance photo, if you want; and please keep that discussion in the proper thread {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053}.
Of course the ambulance photo is part of the evidence related to the paramedics, so the photo will still be discussed somewhat in this thread; but try to remember the focus of discussion in this thread. When it’s time to graduate again, I will start another thread with the focus of who or what (if anything) went to the hospital on the stretcher in the ambulance. We might need to discuss this a little now, but it’s not the focus yet; so let’s see what we can establish about the paramedics, before we focus on that aspect.
As for the FBI involvement, I agree with Andrea, Souza and others that the FBI connection has already been established by the 333 pages in 7 files being released. TIAI Revealed started the same day and we know TS has explained the numerology like 333 and 1221.
With the FBI involved did there need to be a real dead body? Is the answer in Update #4?
-
Well, it's obvious that Michael to organize all this need of key people in key positions as TS said, from the doctor (Murray), paramedics, (for some reason the pictures are not seen your face), false documents, report the coroner and death certificate, obtain the signature of a doctor, arranging a funeral and burial later, all this can be achieved without the help of these key people.
-
Someone here mentioned the role of UCLA.
It seems they did not want to get too involved in this hoax. The doctors have not appeared on TV but their name was mentioned during pre-trial of Murray.
My biggest question is how Michael / FBI would have control over people's UCLA? Even though Michael was never there in 25/06, the people working there could figure out a possible scam.
The story of the fire alarm has been confirmed, including a Brazilian doctor who works in the pediatric UCLA. She said that on the day of Michael's death, the alarm went off and everyone ran outside the building. Nobody knew what was happening until they saw that there had been dozens of people called Michael's name and your music played too loud.
Have help from two or three paramedics may be easier.
I Working in a public hospital large university and I know when something serious happens, many sectors of the hospital are involved, from nurses, laboratory technicians, doctors, etc.. The doctors who treated Michael should give the news to family and fill out some paperwork for a legal nature. Mrs. Katherine said that who spoke with them was Conrad Murray, Dileo said it was a nurse. So, I can not find any plausible theory for what happened at UCLA that day.
Who are these doctors who appeared at the trial?
Does anyone have an idea about this whole issue?
-
Wow MsTrinity333...I just watched that video you posted.....
I don't know what to say. My first reaction was that of something that shook my thoughts on June25th itself. It was a double that really did pass away. The numerology points to a premeditated plan. However, this is Michael Jackson. The phrase meet the man you never knew is resonating within me....I'd like to meet him, I want to meet him, but will never have that chance. If we never knew him, would we recognize him standing in front of us?
Alas, poor Michael, we didn't know you at all.....let's change that, shall we??
Blessings Always
-
The part that my mind won't wrap around is the numerology. It's hard for me because of..
Well, I can't imagine Michael asking the FBI for help, being afraid, and then throwing in, "Oh yeah, as you help me/I help you, you have to do it according to these numbers I've worked out."
Also, sorry, but here I go again, I can't reconcile this with Michael's religious upbringing. I won't say his religious beliefs, because as we know, he continued to write and speak with words that he was taught in his religious upbringing, but, who knows how he felt about that as years passed. I just know he didn't leave because he didn't believe what he was taught, and felt great guilt for not following the teachings. Again, he may have come to believe in numerology once time passed, but I hope that if he did use it, it was as a tool for clues, or to continue on the path of script Elvis had used.
I'm not writing this to begin a religious topic, it is simply MY beliefs, coming from where Michael had been myself.
You all may be entirely correct and I see how you all come to where you are with numerology and TS leads into that area. I will be THRILLED if you are and I will praise you for your great sluthing if it's right. But, for me...well, I'm beyond speculating. I'll just read, and wait, and hope one of these things are right. I'll just wait for Michael's reasons, or not, I just want him back, and back safe, and HAPPY AND FREE :)
I do tend to think the FBI is using Michael, with Michael the initiator from his fear, maybe of dying because of the drugs he was allowed from any doctor, and called for help. And in the event, of capturing all these crooks, it will become a documentary/drama. He will be cleared in name, finances and the crimes by these docs will be exposed, along with the media following the docs in dragging the celebs down.
Again.
JMO
-
Someone here mentioned the role of UCLA.
UCLA campus delivers an infrastructural tunnel web .
UCLA is said to have been a hospital of research of "the mind".
-
There are times when I think that Michael is not shy and fragile man we all know.
-
seems like i caught the tail end of something recently with a connection of farrakhan, jerimiah wright and gadaphi (forgive the boo boos i have lost my spell check and can't firgure how to get it back :lol: :oops: ). one thing that always stood out to me was that fist at the 02 announcement. right around the time he seemed to be acting angry but i also notice in the very last seconds he has the fist and then sort of symbolicly throws it into the air and waves smiling.
We discussed those "guys" in other threads.
About the O2 conference, still no clarification if was MJ or a decoy, but throwing the fist has a significance and many symbolisms can apply.
In deed, feels like being in a washing machine, going in circles.
As Sócrates would say: I only know one thing that i know Nothing
collectively? do you remember where?
Visions and Bahrain
-
Someone here mentioned the role of UCLA.
UCLA campus delivers an infrastructural tunnel web .
UCLA is said to have been a hospital of research of "the mind".
Thanks for the reply, Grace.
But what would have to see the study of minds with the matter Michael?
I have heard that there are tunnels at UCLA, but it gives no answer to my questions. You mean the ambulance could get out of these tunnels?
From the pictures we see, that someone arrived in the ambulance, but how was the procedure inside hospital? I think I'll ever get answer on this.
I could imagine that the medical sector would also be involved in the hoax, but many people would be involved. It makes no sense.
-
Someone here mentioned the role of UCLA.
UCLA campus delivers an infrastructural tunnel web .
UCLA is said to have been a hospital of research of "the mind".
Thanks for the reply, Grace.
But what would have to see the study of minds with the matter Michael?
How do beliefs and emotions affect the course of chronic disease? What are the biological mechanisms underlying the impact of stress on our health? How do the placebo effect and acupuncture work? What is the biology substrate underlying our "gut feelings"? The new UCLA Mind-Body Collaborative Research Center, which opens today, will explore these issues.
http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/article/3140 (http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/article/3140)
New Staglin neuroscience center to probe how human mind works
Faculty campuswide will be participating in the new Staglin IMHRO (International Mental Health Research Organization ) Center for Cognitive Neuroscience to probe how the human mind works, using state-of-the-science imaging technology.
“The Staglin IMHRO Center for Cognitive Neuroscience is an exciting addition to UCLA,” said Scott Waugh, executive vice chancellor and provost. “It will advance scientific understanding, promote innovative teaching and host public programs that can inform the community about fascinating new developments in cognitive neuroscience. UCLA is on the cutting edge of the revolution in mental health, and this center will greatly enhance UCLA’s strengths in this vital area.”
The center, which is scheduled to open officially in July, will be housed on the C floor of the Semel Institute for Neuroscience and Human Behavior.
http://www.today.ucla.edu/portal/ut/new ... 58031.aspx (http://www.today.ucla.edu/portal/ut/new-neuroscience-center-brings-158031.aspx)
-
Someone here mentioned the role of UCLA.
UCLA campus delivers an infrastructural tunnel web .
UCLA is said to have been a hospital of research of "the mind".
Thanks for the reply, Grace.
But what would have to see the study of minds with the matter Michael?
How do beliefs and emotions affect the course of chronic disease? What are the biological mechanisms underlying the impact of stress on our health? How do the placebo effect and acupuncture work? What is the biology substrate underlying our "gut feelings"? The new UCLA Mind-Body Collaborative Research Center, which opens today, will explore these issues.
http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/article/3140 (http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/article/3140)
New Staglin neuroscience center to probe how human mind works
Faculty campuswide will be participating in the new Staglin IMHRO (International Mental Health Research Organization ) Center for Cognitive Neuroscience to probe how the human mind works, using state-of-the-science imaging technology.
“The Staglin IMHRO Center for Cognitive Neuroscience is an exciting addition to UCLA,” said Scott Waugh, executive vice chancellor and provost. “It will advance scientific understanding, promote innovative teaching and host public programs that can inform the community about fascinating new developments in cognitive neuroscience. UCLA is on the cutting edge of the revolution in mental health, and this center will greatly enhance UCLA’s strengths in this vital area.”
The center, which is scheduled to open officially in July, will be housed on the C floor of the Semel Institute for Neuroscience and Human Behavior.
http://www.today.ucla.edu/portal/ut/new ... 58031.aspx (http://www.today.ucla.edu/portal/ut/new-neuroscience-center-brings-158031.aspx)
Sorry, but I'm feeling really dumb :oops: .
Still do not understand what the mind studies has to do with Michael / FBI / Hoax.
Explanation, please! :?
-
Stress can kill. MJ was under stress. May be he was taken care of before it was too late.
To "kill" MJ the icon would mean the rebirth of MJ the human being. Michael´s life and fame lead him probably in to a pseudo life. Rewiring his mind in to different cages would have been a sign of survival and would explain many sides of Michael and what he needed to deal with during 45 years on the spot light.
-
Stress can kill. MJ was under stress. May be he was taken care of before it was too late.
To "kill" MJ the icon would mean the rebirth of MJ the human being. Michael´s life and fame lead him probably in to a pseudo life. Rewiring his mind in to different cages would have been a sign of survival and would explain many sides of Michael and what he needed to deal with during 45 years on the spot light.
So it may be that Michael / FBI seeks help from UCLA to make a psychological treatment anti-stress on Michael?
As required by the FBI and Michael being severely at risk of death and a high level of stress, UCLA would rather help with this.
This would be so complex! Is this a valid assumption? :?
-
Wow MsTrinity333...I just watched that video you posted.....
I don't know what to say. My first reaction was that of something that shook my thoughts on June25th itself. It was a double that really did pass away. The numerology points to a premeditated plan. However, this is Michael Jackson. The phrase meet the man you never knew is resonating within me....I'd like to meet him, I want to meet him, but will never have that chance. If we never knew him, would we recognize him standing in front of us?
Alas, poor Michael, we didn't know you at all.....let's change that, shall we??
Blessings Always
Here's all I could find from my past notes of an investigation between two posters concerning a body (not a double):
"This brings us to who was in the house. Who did they put in the ambulance and take to UCLA. If they were working with a medical forensic doctor DR. A. the colleague of Dr. Murray; then he could get a John Doe who is either critical or recently died and take to the house to the doctor's room. He was not in MJ's bed, and they made the room as hot as possible to try to keep the body warm. There are too many unexplained things that make it less likely that MJ had disappeared and was not taken to the hospital.
The fact that no one has identified or spoken to the doctor who received MJ's body and coded him at UCLA hospital or that he/she did not announce the death at the press conference is unheard of. It is not difficult for a physician to purchase an unidentified person - John Doe/Jane Doe. They are used for training physicians on procedures etc. I think in this case - a medical legal forensic doctor- Dr. M's colleague may have access to these John Doe bodies. They had the right fit. That is why no one from the house- Kai Chase or any of the housekeepers were called for help; which is unusual in a cardiac arrest where you need as many hands as possible to help with compression and passing things.
My assumption is that MJ did his disappearance between a little after midnight the night before (6/24) to the morning of 6/25. Most likely before Kai Chase got to the house. I think that explains why his computer/hard drive and stashes of money were missing. He took the computer with his songs and the money with him. The person who they reported was MJ was not him. So far we had at least 2 episodes where the people who saw his body when he was a dead man said it did not look like him and described someone who looked elderly, Asian and very, very thin. The most important characteristic of MJ is his Vitiligo and that was not described by any of them.
MJ would not take the risk of going to the hospital. There would be too much complication with going there. However for diversion you send a body there because that will take the attention away from what you are doing; similar to the scene in Smooth Criminal where he describes the fact that you create the diversion with the person coming on stage with the fire and noise while he and the dancers position themselves into the tilt. No one is watching them…"
-
Stress can kill. MJ was under stress. May be he was taken care of before it was too late.
To "kill" MJ the icon would mean the rebirth of MJ the human being. Michael´s life and fame lead him probably in to a pseudo life. Rewiring his mind in to different cages would have been a sign of survival and would explain many sides of Michael and what he needed to deal with during 45 years on the spot light.
-
Stress can kill. MJ was under stress. May be he was taken care of before it was too late.
To "kill" MJ the icon would mean the rebirth of MJ the human being. Michael´s life and fame lead him probably in to a pseudo life. Rewiring his mind in to different cages would have been a sign of survival and would explain many sides of Michael and what he needed to deal with during 45 years on the spot light.
So it may be that Michael / FBI seeks help from UCLA to make a psychological treatment anti-stress on Michael?
As required by the FBI and Michael being severely at risk of death and a high level of stress, UCLA would rather help with this.
This would be so complex! Is this a valid assumption? :?
I am not sure. The family talked about an intervention many times and weeks before Michael died they also said that an intervenion was on the way.
We have heard about Murrays intervention. But what kind?
For MJ to recuperate it would mean to be reborn. Becoming a new being.
(I explained this theory very extensively in another thread some months ago, the visions thread, a thread which included psychiatric, medical and psychological approaches to MJ´s profile)
-
Dr Tohme Tohme and Grace the nanny are from the Nation of Islam...
Loius Farrakhan was at the memorial. He then goes on the defend Michael and says he was crucified !!
Michael had let go of the NOI bodyguards because he felt threatened.
NOI are a million strong and growing by the day. They pose a real threat to the American government .
Is MJ working undercover to expose them for what they really are ????????
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXal1CGa ... re=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXal1CGaISQ&feature=related)
[youtube:odzzw5ut]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXal1CGaISQ&feature=related[/youtube:odzzw5ut]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9awyYESU ... ure=fvwrel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9awyYESUm78&feature=fvwrel)
[youtube:odzzw5ut]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9awyYESUm78&feature=fvwrel[/youtube:odzzw5ut]
-
Without quoting anyone specific, I will give my answers here to things that have been asked or stated by several hoax members about the FBI.
First, I am not the one to initiate FBI or government involvement. This is a theory that has been around pretty much from the beginning. Souza has had the FBI on the home page for a long time: "If he has the FBI on his side, a lot can be done." {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/recap_english.php}.
Second, I never said that everyone in the entire FBI organization is involved. I have always said MJ was planning this for years, and got a few key people in a few key positions to cooperate with him. Notice that this is possible with the structure of the FBI: "The article went on to also blame the FBI's decentralized structure which prevented effective communication and cooperation between different FBI offices. The article also claimed that the FBI has still not evolved into an effective counterterrorism or counterintelligence agency, due in large part to deeply ingrained cultural resistance to change within the FBI." {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fbi}.
Third, as I have said a few times already in this thread: the Elvis connection answers much of these objections--including the idea that there would be 100% secrecy, and no clues. Elvis had government help, that is unquestionably established not only from Linda's website--but just about anyone else who talks about the Elvis case. Also, originally Elvis had only six people in on it--and they were not all government agents. Therefore, all the people in all the government agencies were not in on it.
Fourth, if the FBI is involved, why would TS expose this publicly on the internet? Again, look at the Elvis case. Why does Linda's website publicly expose the fact that government agents helped Elvis in the past and recently? Is Linda's website putting anyone in danger? No. Why not? Because the general public has never heard of her website; and of the few who do see it, many still don't believe it. Same for this MJ hoax website. It is not getting millions of hits a day (not yet, anyway :shock: ). Few are watching, most of which are merely forum members here; and even some of those don't believe what I am saying about the FBI.
Fifth, there is more than one way to skin a cat. So let's look at it from the other side of the coin. If the FBI did not help out, then how could the Bel Air station not know something is fishy? Would they sit by quietly, and say nothing, while MJ hired actors and rented an ambulance to look just like the LAFD #71 ambulance? And why would the LAFD Captain say {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggewNtwvHJ4}: "On June 25, 2009, LAFD responded ... our paramedic ..."--if indeed the LAFD did NOT respond, and it was merely actors in a rented ambulance?
Do you think professionals could ALL be bought out for money? And when the truth came out, wouldn't there be serious consequences for all of them? Do you think they would not be charged with abuse of public office--ESPECIALLY if they got paid for it? Can they get out of it all, by saying that it was all just for a movie--and this or that legal loophole squeaks them by? Did you know that legal loopholes do not prevent people from getting charged with a crime? Did you know that loopholes may not even prevent someone from being convicted of a crime? Different people interpret the law differently; that is why there are lawyers and judges and juries.
However, if key people in the FBI are cooperating with LAFD and MJ: then when the truth comes out, all they have to do is show success in catching some public corruption through this process--and all is well that ends well. After all, once again, that is their "top priority among criminal investigations" {http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption}.
Finally: is this hoax a prank, or a Thriller II reality movie, or an ARG, or a sting operation, or a Vendetta, or an NWO/EOW warning, or a wake-up call to the gullible public (don't believe everything in the media), etc--which is it? And the answer is: all of the above! It is something that people have never seen before, at least not the combination of these things and on this scale.
[/color]
This is my exact thoughts, I believe that Michael Jackson has created an
extraordinary film of which is undisputed director and author.
He risked a lot and no one before him has managed to do
same.
I believe that he engage the services of equipe FBI or at least
investigative facilities that protect him.
He's a great great man and immense genius!
;) Thank you, TS, for precious details
-
Why have they chosen the drill to go around the world with ????? It says it all for me.
This is a message to all of his fans...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPJI9yvE ... ure=relmfu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPJI9yvEcbk&feature=relmfu)
[youtube:3e57suux]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPJI9yvEcbk&feature=relmfu[/youtube:3e57suux]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKtdTJP_ ... ure=relmfu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKtdTJP_GUI&feature=relmfu)
[youtube:3e57suux]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKtdTJP_GUI&feature=relmfu[/youtube:3e57suux]
-
There are times when I think that Michael is not shy and fragile man we all know.
Nobody fragile would have lasted through two bullshit molestation trials and still manage to raise a beautiful family... amongst many other accomplishments.
-
How many of us are trying to learn "the drill" and how many WISH we could learn it????
I'm in the wish group. I can't catch onto any of his moves even though I've been watching them almost all my life :)
-
Stress can kill. MJ was under stress. May be he was taken care of before it was too late.
To "kill" MJ the icon would mean the rebirth of MJ the human being. Michael´s life and fame lead him probably in to a pseudo life. Rewiring his mind in to different cages would have been a sign of survival and would explain many sides of Michael and what he needed to deal with during 45 years on the spot light.
So it may be that Michael / FBI seeks help from UCLA to make a psychological treatment anti-stress on Michael?
As required by the FBI and Michael being severely at risk of death and a high level of stress, UCLA would rather help with this.
This would be so complex! Is this a valid assumption? :?
I am not sure. The family talked about an intervention many times and weeks before Michael died they also said that an intervenion was on the way.
We have heard about Murrays intervention. But what kind?
For MJ to recuperate it would mean to be reborn. Becoming a new being.
(I explained this theory very extensively in another thread some months ago, the visions thread, a thread which included psychiatric, medical and psychological approaches to MJ´s profile)
I know in the process of elimination, we all throw in competing theories and possibilities which sometimes seem ridiculous. We do it to see what's plausible in the process of elimination but - trying to figure out MJ's medical and psychological profile when this hoax has being going on for such a long time - can't you see - its a time waster!
-
Stress can kill. MJ was under stress. May be he was taken care of before it was too late.
To "kill" MJ the icon would mean the rebirth of MJ the human being. Michael´s life and fame lead him probably in to a pseudo life. Rewiring his mind in to different cages would have been a sign of survival and would explain many sides of Michael and what he needed to deal with during 45 years on the spot light.
So it may be that Michael / FBI seeks help from UCLA to make a psychological treatment anti-stress on Michael?
As required by the FBI and Michael being severely at risk of death and a high level of stress, UCLA would rather help with this.
This would be so complex! Is this a valid assumption? :?
I am not sure. The family talked about an intervention many times and weeks before Michael died they also said that an intervenion was on the way.
We have heard about Murrays intervention. But what kind?
For MJ to recuperate it would mean to be reborn. Becoming a new being.
(I explained this theory very extensively in another thread some months ago, the visions thread, a thread which included psychiatric, medical and psychological approaches to MJ´s profile)
I know in the process of elimination, we all throw in competing theories and possibilities which sometimes seem ridiculous. We do it to see what's plausible in the process of elimination but - trying to figure out MJ's medical and psychological profile when this hoax has being going on for such a long time - can't you see - its a time waster!
Lol, totally.
-
Do you think professionals could ALL be bought out for money? And when the truth came out, wouldn't there be serious consequences for all of them? Do you think they would not be charged with abuse of public office--ESPECIALLY if they got paid for it? Can they get out of it all, by saying that it was all just for a movie--and this or that legal loophole squeaks them by? Did you know that legal loopholes do not prevent people from getting charged with a crime? Did you know that loopholes may not even prevent someone from being convicted of a crime? Different people interpret the law differently; that is why there are lawyers and judges and juries.
I need some clearance on this, as this thing interests me the most. Legality.
1."Do you think professionals could ALL be bought out for money?"- were they brought out for money, in first place? that means FBI's proffesionals are used with corruption, because why would you pay them to do your work if you need them for a correct purpose?(I'm not talking about salary here)
2."Do you think they would not be charged with abuse of public office--ESPECIALLY if they got paid for it?"- Again, FBI is used to reveal corruption but they are used via corruption themselves?I don't understand. Being paid for it IS corruption (I'm not talking about salary or being paid for your work here, you understand what I mean?)
3."Can they get out of it all, by saying that it was all just for a movie--and this or that legal loophole squeaks them by? Did you know that legal loopholes do not prevent people from getting charged with a crime? Did you know that loopholes may not even prevent someone from being convicted of a crime? "- Again, who commited a crime? Michael or the ones involved (being paid for doing something against law)?
Hi Anna,
I'm not sure if you understood what I was saying. When I said "got paid for it", I did not mean FBI agents. In this context, I am arguing against the idea that the FBI are not involved at all. If the FBI are not involved, then what implications are there for LAFD?
If the LAFD cooperated with MJ for money, to produce a movie, then when the truth came out there would probably be serious consequences for LAFD--including possible criminal charges. Sure, LAFD may cooperate making a movie--when it is all clearly known to the public to be a movie--and not get into any trouble. But if the LAPD were involved in making a movie, that was clearly designed to look like reality, then there is a chance of legal trouble--even if legal loopholes were used to supposedly keep them out of trouble (such as not running the siren on the ambulance, etc). The theory that the LAFD are involved merely for money and a movie has at least this major problem; therefore, FBI operation makes more sense.
-
Do you think MJ was approached first by the FBI or he approached them? Because how does this process really work?
Some have said they don't buy that MJ is working with the FBI which I think he is because it's the only way it could be pulled off...but just say MJ approached them doesn't that mean MJ has to adhere to their rules or maybe if they approached him then I guess he could be in control somewhat or allow for there to be clues.
Do you notice how almost all of the family have said publically that MJ was murdered for his catalogue??
And since, many other have come forward and said the same thing....all this time, we have been waiting for something to be done about it. You can't just throw accusations out there, and not have any consequences...
Remember the leaked tapes of MJ asking for "Sunscreen" in the account, and that he was afraid, that he thinks he is the "Italian Mafia" or something like that.
Personally, if I was afraid for my life, I would be contacting the police immediately. Were these threats for real, and MJ did something about it?? Who wanted him dead?
Follow the money trail..isn't that what Joe Jackson and Leonard Rowe said ??
Michael Jackson & Julien’s Auctions Lawsuit Update, Claims of Threats:
“Lives Are At Stake and There Will Be Bloodshed”
March 24, 2009
As widely reported in the mainstream media, Michael Jackson has filed a lawsuit against Julien’s Auctions for the return of personal property from the Neverland Ranch that was consigned to the auction house with a sale planned for April 22-April 25, 2009 in Beverly Hills. Fox News now reports on claims of threats made against Darren Julien and partner Martin Nolan by a Jackson associate.
The full report can be found at FoxNews.com (Claim: Jacko’s Rep Threatened Harm From Nation of Islam): Read more here....
http://www.originalprop.com/blog/2009/0 ... bloodshed/ (http://www.originalprop.com/blog/2009/03/24/michael-jackson-juliens-auctions-lawsuit-update-claims-of-threats-lives-are-at-stake-and-there-will-be-bloodshed/)
Could this be the reason he needed the FBI involved ????
Thank You Sarahli for answering (I think the "prank" part is "Michael faked his death" and the little funny clues we receive like toys placed on the desk of the judge for example, the entertainment thing)...that makes sense.
@2good2btrue Thanks for answering both of my questions.
-
I know TS said this hoax is because of many things but TS didn't say it was also because MJ was in danger? So is MJ not in danger or was never in danger?
This is not an important question but TS said that it was also a prank, who is it a prank to? I know MJ liked doing pranks but why is that one of the reasons? I am not trying to single out that reason or take it out of context but it just interests me.
I have always said that MJ was in danger, but it was not imminent danger on June 25. Did he realize on the morning of June 25, that someone was hot on his tracks--and then he suddenly decided to make a dash for the airport, while planning and orchestrating the hoax by cell phone on the run? No, he had this planned for a long time; the numerology, the "illusion", and even his statement to Randy the night before--all these show us clearly that MJ already had it planned to the exact day. Therefore, it was not a last-minute idea to escape imminent danger. Also, I did not say that the list I gave was all of the reasons for the hoax.
I will discuss about the "prank" aspect a little more in my next comment.
-
TS,
Are you at liberty to disclose any information on Thome and his involvement-good or bad-in this matter? This figure has prominently stood out to me in the most intriguing and mysterious fashion, yet no hard core evidence ever surfaces about him. I find it rather suspicious, too suspicious. Do you have any INTEL on him?
Thanks
-
Sorry, but I don't buy that he would make people/fans suffer unnecessarily just for a joke.! It has to be something more serious than that....
Remember, his children are playing a part in this too, and I don't think MJ would make them lie, just for fun. This has caused pain to many people, on many levels. ...
I agree, that this was not "JUST" for a joke, or fun. And I included several reasons other than just a prank. However, even though there are several other reasons, you know MJ is a prankster--and he is certainly capable of throwing some things in for a laugh here and there. I'm sure that you have read many people refer to the trial as the man's-laughter (manslaughter) case.
By the way, speaking of toys in the courtroom: did anyone notice that the same judge did NOT have the yellow taxi in LiLo's recent court appearance? {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbZfxi4PoME}
-
TS, just a question. I am still cracking my head over this, but since I think this hoax was planned like 20 years ago, I was wondering where the FBI came in. I do think he has been involved with the FBI for a long time already, because it could explain to me some choices he made in the past that seemed a little strange. But if he was involved in a sting operation, it would explain some stuff.
This FBI thing is so interesting, but it is grasping at straws. When did they become involved, who is/are the target(s), when did they wrap it up, or haven't they yet? I have many many many many questions at the moment. It also makes me wonder if Evan Chandler is in the WPP, I always thought it was too much of a coincidence he died on November 5th. Although he's a piece of shit, he most likely only was a puppet for the puppeteers, so he might have given information to catch the bigger fish.
-
TS,
Are you at liberty to disclose any information on Thome and his involvement-good or bad-in this matter? ...
Thanks
No.
Also, I would like to keep this thread on topic: paramedics, and staged photo done in LAFD #71, or a different ambulance, etc.
-
Sorry, but I don't buy that he would make people/fans suffer unnecessarily just for a joke.! It has to be something more serious than that....
Remember, his children are playing a part in this too, and I don't think MJ would make them lie, just for fun. This has caused pain to many people, on many levels. ...
I agree, that this was not "JUST" for a joke, or fun. And I included several reasons other than just a prank. However, even though there are several other reasons, you know MJ is a prankster--and he is certainly capable of throwing some things in for a laugh here and there. I'm sure that you have read many people refer to the trial as the man's-laughter (manslaughter) case.
By the way, speaking of toys in the courtroom: did anyone notice that the same judge did NOT have the yellow taxi in LiLo's recent court appearance? {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbZfxi4PoME}
There is nothing wrong with this ALSO being for fun. If this was all just serious and he wouldn't have put in a LOT of humor, I would have flipped. The issues we are discussing are heavy enough, we NEED the laughs. And I can assure you all that I I have never laughed so hard all alone behind my screen as I did at times in this hoax.
-
TS,
Are you at liberty to disclose any information on Thome and his involvement-good or bad-in this matter? ...
Thanks
No.
lol...
Also, I would like to keep this thread on topic: paramedics, and staged photo done in LAFD #71, or a different ambulance, etc.
With the FBI involved the paramedics are probably real, the staged photo is probably done in a different ambulance, because the interiors just don't match. That also means that the paramedics in the picture could be other persons than the paramedics that were on the scene on June 25.
-
TS,
Are you at liberty to disclose any information on Thome and his involvement-good or bad-in this matter? ...
Thanks
No.
Also, I would like to keep this thread on topic: paramedics, and staged photo done in LAFD #71, or a different ambulance, etc.
TS,
Thanks for your prompt answer. In regards to the hoax, what is so funny about it??? Perhaps I have lost my sense of humor over the course of the past two years???? The gravity of this seems to be too pressing to be funny. Perhaps in hindsight we will all be able to chuckle more freely!?!?
-
Just wondering...
Do you think the cabinet from the pictures match the cabinet from the video? Wouldn't that white border show up in the pictures?
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12209)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12208)
Good catch! I'm glad somebody noticed this--it is one of the "secrets" that I have been planning on pointing out, if nobody found it. But I'm always glad when someone else finds it first. There is one more thing about this that I will include later, if nobody else gets it first.
TS, I was wondering what the other one more thing you were going to include. Did you write it to us already or someone else has found it or are you waiting for the ambulance research/discussion to end?
So far, I haven't seen anyone find the other thing on this. I'll give it a few more days for someone else to find it.
Can you at least give us help in the right direction...it's hard to know what were looking for when we have nothing to go on. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
Back on topic ...
I am now going to say that the staged photo was done in the same LAFD #71 ambulance--there were not two different ambulances. In fact, why would they need a different ambulance (rented or otherwise), if the FBI was working directly with LAFD station #71?
The answer to the above pictures can be found in this video {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A09tRR6ppKQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A09tRR6ppKQ)}.
-
TS,
Are you at liberty to disclose any information on Thome and his involvement-good or bad-in this matter? ...
Thanks
No.
lol...
Also, I would like to keep this thread on topic: paramedics, and staged photo done in LAFD #71, or a different ambulance, etc.
With the FBI involved the paramedics are probably real, the staged photo is probably done in a different ambulance, because the interiors just don't match. That also means that the paramedics in the picture could be other persons than the paramedics that were on the scene on June 25.
This is SOOO eery- I just typed the almost exact post...I swear- almost verbatim. Then lost it, as I clicked away too quickly, not seeing the notice that another post was made in the meantime.
MAN! Seems I was wrong though, - I also thought a different ambulance was used in the "staged" pics. But I still am going with the real paramedics on 6-25. As I pointed out before- the lack of urgency seems to be evidence for that. They were "bad" actors- not hurrying to get out and away, since they knew no-one was dying. So, they took their times ("forgot to act..").
-
If anyone still doubts FBI involvement because of clues, etc, please research into sting versus entrapment {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sting_operation; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrapment}.
-
The answer to the above pictures can be found in this video {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A09tRR6ppKQ}.
I'm wondering if it has to do with the red trashcan thing we see next to the glass in one picture and not in the other. If they pics were all taken from the back (where Ben supposedly took them from)- would they not BOTH show the red bucket thingy as we see it in 4:01 of the clip?
It makes me wonder if one of the pics was taken from a different angle, possibly the front.
Another obvious thing was that the video showed the patient being rolled in head first- with feet toward the ambulance door.
-
If anyone still doubts FBI involvement because of clues, etc, please research into sting versus entrapment {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sting_operation; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrapment}.
Oh goody- too bad I have to go to bed now. I will read tomorrow (of course I don't need convincing, but I like to have new info to use when I convince others.. ;) ) My husband works for DIA (defense intelligence agency)- and I know that all kinds of things can be accomplished with the right motivation and the right people behind you. Esp. if you have the luxury of LONG-term planning.
This thread is a great exercise in perspective taking. I have long believed that the FBI was involved, that this in LONG term planning (which at some point Michael approached the FBI or he was approached- don't know which one, but it sure brought all the elements together)- but I can understand that those who have not thought along those lines have a hard time wrapping their heads around all of this. Now, think about non-believers- talk about DIFFERENT perspective. They heads will spin when they are forced to see things from a different perspective...sorry, this was off topic... ;)
-
Back on topic ...
I am now going to say that the staged photo was done in the same LAFD #71 ambulance--there were not two different ambulances. In fact, why would they need a different ambulance (rented or otherwise), if the FBI was working directly with LAFD station #71?
The answer to the above pictures can be found in this video {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A09tRR6ppKQ}.
Hmm, now I'm confused. Are you just saying it or is it true? lol
-
If the interior of ambulance #71 is the same as the one in the last part of the video, then it's not ambulance #71 in the picture, because the cabinet has two colors in the ambulance, yet not in the picture.
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/cabinetdoor.png)
If the interior of ambulance #71 differs from the one in the video, then how are we supposed to catch anything? Or were you not talking about the cabinet, but something else we could notice by watching the video?
-
Back on topic ...
I am now going to say that the staged photo was done in the same LAFD #71 ambulance--there were not two different ambulances. In fact, why would they need a different ambulance (rented or otherwise), if the FBI was working directly with LAFD station #71?
The answer to the above pictures can be found in this video {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A09tRR6ppKQ}.
Hmm, now I'm confused. Are you just saying it or is it true? lol
I think TS said the same ambulance was used. I guess that could still mean that FBI staff acted the paramdic parts in the pics before 6-25 (as no faces were used).
-
I've been trying to figure out what the heck is in that cabinet. It sure doesn't have the same items as the video cabinet and I thought they were supposed to be all about the same for consistency.
-
[youtube:je55hz0l]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A09tRR6ppKQ[/youtube:je55hz0l]
The Los Angeles Fire Department uses paramedic ambulances for transportation. It's staffed with two paramedics...
So who was driving? In the video we can see just one paramedic in the back when they close the doors, the one at the head. The other one is driving. So why are there three paramedics in the ambulance that left Carolwood Drive? I think the theory that Mike disguised as a paramedic and drove off with the ambulance resusicating his own wax dummy becomes more plausible now... :lol:
-
Oh no, wait...the picture was staged and therefore there COULD have been just one EMT in the back on June 25... LMAO, my head is exploding :lol:
-
I am now going to say that the staged photo was done in the same LAFD #71 ambulance--there were not two different ambulances. In fact, why would they need a different ambulance (rented or otherwise), if the FBI was working directly with LAFD station #71?
I would imagine that if the FBI was working directly with LAFD station 71, then no one working at station 71 is at liberty to say anything - they're not allowed to as it would interfere with the sting. A sting is a deceptive operation - that LAFD station would cooperate for the staged ambulance photo because it's part of the sting and would agree to send that same ambulance on June 25th.
The LAFD are not lying when they said there was a 911 call received and they responded to it. Part of the sting for Michael to escape.
The ambulance took either a dummy, a hospice patient or nobody (?) in the ambulance while the feds secretly escorted Michael to the airport (if we are to assume Michael was at his Carolwood home that day). Maybe that's why the ambulance took forever to back out of the drive way - to cause a distraction as to what was really happening. The infamous ambulance photo-taking was re-created once the ambulance was on the street, to "legitimize" the photo and to make it appear that Michael was dying or already dead. Doing this protects Michael because if someone(s) was after him, they might believe the photo they see splashed around on magazine covers and the internet as genuine. If these bad people later realize they've been duped, Michael is far away by then.
I think intially, like Elvis, when these events actually happened, very few people were in on it. Then more people are brought into the fold for additional help and perhaps for their own safety.
???
-
Well we know MJ wasn't driving. From what I've read about his driving he probably would have taken out the whole front gate. :lol: Just kidding. Of course, no one was photographing the front of the ambulance so that would have been the ideal place to be.
-
Sorry, found something else that is weird...
In the ambulance pic we see that the leg of the paramedic at the head is next to the stretcher and that Mike's head is centered between his legs. But if you look at the video, you can see they roll the stretcher into those metal things, so that it won't move during transportation. But if you look at the position of the seat compared to the position of where the stretcher will be, you see that there is no way that the paramedic could have his leg there, unless he has go-go-gadget legs.
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/insideamb2.jpg)
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance3.jpg)
I also checked the position of the seat in the video that shows the inside of ambulance #71, and same story. It's not that they put the stretcher more to the left side of the ambulance. Firstly because that's pretty dangerous, and secondly because in that case there would be no room for the EMT standing in the pic. So my new conclusion is: the ambulance picture wasn't taken in an ambulance at all. It's either a set with the interior of the ambulance copied, or the interior of the ambulance was shopped into the picture.
But either way, they did not use ambulance #71 for that ambulance picture.
Edit:
@TS, why would they use an ambulance that could be used for real emergencies twice, if it's not necessary?
-
Well we know MJ wasn't driving. From what I've read about his driving he probably would have taken out the whole front gate. :lol: Just kidding. Of course, no one was photographing the front of the ambulance so that would have been the ideal place to be.
Well it could explain why it took them so freakin' long to even get through those gates! :lol: :lol:
-
I wonder how those asleep can accept the toys in court room - just to name this - and not start scratching their head...
I imagine Michael laughing his socks off at times about how this "case" was being perceived.
Must have been a thriller and and an excellent entertainment for him, too, including being baffled sometimes. But we were baffled, too, sometimes. :shock: :lol:
I asked the question about the roles of FBI and CIA in this. Their controversial roles have been discussed at other occasions on a more generalizing level and I came to think that there might be some rivalry among these organizations. I would not exclude that some good guys are to be found in both orgs, however their outside image is predominantly negative (I am not talking U.S. perception here).
LAPD, LASD did not treat him meaning his best always.
Therefore, I would wonder if Michael would rely on any law executing or even "secretly acting" organizations. I could only imagine a personal one-on-one trustful relationship with one officer who is dealing as an intermediate link with the rest.
Michael would be the informative and relationship link to whoever is being targetted in the US or abroad, the counterpart being the link to the execution of investigation.
As to who is being the bad boys for which reason - there are several fields that would fit.
There are some deaths occuring in the US that would leave me prone to believe they would fit into a operational concept of "doing as if dead" and getting the persons out of target zone. However, I have no proof to date and most likely never will have, that those persons were rescued instead.
The ambulance, the paramedics, the tour bus, a person in the ambulance for real (with no deadly illness, hence the monitor being off and no IV) make a lot of sense. Low blood pressure, fainting are enough to call an ambulance. Code of conduct of LAFD plus NDA hints (not signitures) to the individuals involved due to an occurance of a "VIP" would give no reason of worry. Nobody needed to be in - except if the paramedics were undercover agents which we don't know.
The photographers orchestrated on scene to get a photo "accordingly" to real actions is a logical extension on the background of a sting operation. Only Ben needed to be in for making sure that one pap was really shooting at the window. All others would be there anyway and trying to get pictures from the windows. The only important aspect was timing - therefore the prepared photo. One had to be the first to spoonfed and initiate the avalanche so that all other media would have to rely on the first source.
The photo being staged in advance would need either Ben or another photographer to be in. As Ben was already in - due to making sure one of his paps was at the right place (and having the knowledge of Chris as to how to display a patient "as if" - I'd say the staging of the photograph was executed with Ben only. Adding Chris "to the know" would not have been required. Except - and this again we don't know - Chris is having an additional job, too.
UCLA having had severe issues of disclosure of patients' data would be more than happy to keep all eyes on that patient now in order to not leak anything out. As UCLA is a research center, too, there are ties with intelligence for sure. So another person being in there is likely to me. UCLA's role as such is not quite clear yet but I guess we will discuss this later.
To end my speculations with something substantial, LOL, yes, I like in particular the twisting of words in giving them new (or other than conventional) meaning. Sometimes non-native speakers have an advantage in this because they have to consult a dictionnary once in a while - and this, among many other aspects, has always been a source of many smiles for me. Michael is a very literate and humerous personality and I am glad I got to know this.
-
Someone here mentioned the role of UCLA.
It seems they did not want to get too involved in this hoax. The doctors have not appeared on TV but their name was mentioned during pre-trial of Murray.
My biggest question is how Michael / FBI would have control over people's UCLA? Even though Michael was never there in 25/06, the people working there could figure out a possible scam.
The story of the fire alarm has been confirmed, including a Brazilian doctor who works in the pediatric UCLA. She said that on the day of Michael's death, the alarm went off and everyone ran outside the building. Nobody knew what was happening until they saw that there had been dozens of people called Michael's name and your music played too loud.
Have help from two or three paramedics may be easier.
I Working in a public hospital large university and I know when something serious happens, many sectors of the hospital are involved, from nurses, laboratory technicians, doctors, etc.. The doctors who treated Michael should give the news to family and fill out some paperwork for a legal nature. Mrs. Katherine said that who spoke with them was Conrad Murray, Dileo said it was a nurse. So, I can not find any plausible theory for what happened at UCLA that day.
Who are these doctors who appeared at the trial?
Does anyone have an idea about this whole issue?
Perhaps after you read this article (below) it will make more sense. The staff at UCLA just did their jobs. Jermaine is said to have confirmed the reports that were already out there. No one was allowed into the hospital if they were suspect to the UCLA staff/police who handled the security part. That is most likely why no pictures of Michael/the hospice patient have been shown inside the hospital after the ambulance arrived.
http://www.today.ucla.edu/portal/ut/sta ... 95128.aspx (http://www.today.ucla.edu/portal/ut/staff-leap-into-action-as-jackson-95128.aspx)
Jul 01, 2009 By Alison Hewitt
Staff leap into action as Jackson creates campus' biggest media surge in memory
When Michael Jackson's ambulance arrived at Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical Center on Thursday, June 25, the star was soon followed by hordes of paparazzi, TV reporters, fans and more. The crowd only grew from there.
News crews swarmed outside the medical center to report on Jackson's death. In what many UCLA staff described as the biggest surge of media on campus in memory, even bigger than the 1984 Olympics, dozens of Bruins from departments all over campus teamed up to respond to the unprecedented crowds. Their tasks ranged from keeping aggressive paparazzi from sneaking into the emergency room, to crowd and traffic control, to arranging a press conference with the Jackson family – not to mention medical care for Jackson.
"Staff at the UCLA Medical Center really pulled together during this unprecedented event, from the doctors and nurses to the security, the media representatives and more," said Amir Dan Rubin, the Chief Operating Officer of the hospital. "As hundreds of mourners and press appeared on our doorstep, our team successfully responded to the unexpected surge of interest in one patient without letting it ever interfere with our ability to provide exceptional care for each and every one of our other patients."
When Jackson's ambulance arrived early Thursday afternoon, it was clear that the hospital needed to react quickly before the swelling crowd got out of control. A call went out to UCLA's police department moments after Jackson's ambulance arrived, said UCPD Captain John Adams.
Hundreds of fans, mourners and media massed outside UCLA's medical center when news broke that Michael Jackson was inside. "We were on scene one minute later," Adams said. Their job was all the trickier because the throngs began arriving even faster than the police did. "We secured the perimeter to make sure that the ER was still accessible to people who needed to be treated, while keeping the paparazzi out. We were cognizant that there could be people who were faking an injury or illness just to get in and snap pictures. We also worked closely with the Jackson family to help them come in safely."
All incoming patients and patients' visitors were screened. Charles Young Drive South was closed to all but ambulance traffic, and police set up barricades of yellow tape, reinforced with UC police, hospital security, officers from the Los Angeles Police Department and elsewhere. Adams estimated there were up to 1,500 gawkers, mourners and media around the hospital.
"We contacted the LAPD for their assistance because we knew this was going to be a large-scale event," Adams said. "We used their assistance to create safe passage for patients and to keep the looky-loos back."
News crews took over the lawns at the medical center to report on Jackson's death. The hospital stopped one reporter who was caught sneaking in via an underground elevator from a parking garage directly to the emergency room, and Adams encountered another. "I'm not sure whether anyone faked an injury, but we did have one individual come in for treatment who was a paparazzi," Adams added. "We made sure they didn't have access to a secure area."
The hospital's media relations representatives worked with Jackson's family to arrange an announcement to the press in a downstairs auditorium. There were some anxious moments as crowds of journalists and fans gathered in front of the medical center's main entrance waiting to be let in. More than a dozen hospital and campus media reps joined officers in guiding reporters downstairs five at a time, checking media credentials at the door and turning away fans. Reporters and bulky video cameras soon filled the space, and even though the room seats nearly 200, not all the media could fit.
"We all did our best to accommodate an unprecedented volume of reporters on campus due to the extraordinary level of interest in Michael Jackson's death," said Phil Hampton, assistant director of UCLA's Office of Media Relations.
"King of Pop is dead at 50," read a newspaper at an impromptu memorial to Michael Jackson the day after his death. Photo by Alison Hewitt. Jackson's brother Jermaine confirmed the news already being reported. "The legendary King of Pop, Michael Jackson, passed away on Thursday, June 25, 2009, at 2:26 p.m. It is believed he suffered cardiac arrest in his home," he said. "A team of [UCLA] doctors, including emergency physicians and cardiologists, attempted to resuscitate him for a period of more than one hour but were unsuccessful."
The Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department sent a helicopter to lift Jackson's body from the hospital to the coroner's office, and the California Highway Patrol was on hand to create a traffic break and provide an escort in case the helicopter was unavailable. On campus, the UCLA Fire Department stepped in to make sure a candlelight vigil didn't light foliage ablaze. Media relations representatives took calls and answered questions day and night.
UCLA's Parking Services juggled the hundreds of bumper-to-bumper TV trucks from around the world seeking curbside access to the hospital, helping them park close enough to transmit live shots from their roving cameras.
Some news vans ignored UCLA's parking officers and parked on the grass, where their tires tore into the lawn. "We provided public parking [at the regular rate] in structure 8, and we allowed the TV trucks to park in the north and southbound lanes of Westwood, keeping the middle open for traffic," said Steve Rand, manager of traffic, events and adjudication for Parking Services. "Although we have never had this many media in my memory – that's 30 years on campus – we do have an emergency plan that calls for this very thing."
Two tow trucks circled the area, and public cars that parked in media slots were ticketed. E-mails were sent to UCLA staff parked in structures 6, 8 and 9, recommending alternative routes out of campus. Preventing pedestrians from crossing or blocking Westwood Plaza took as much attention as traffic control, Rand said.
"Trying to keep people out of traffic lanes was a big part of our job," he said. "There really isn't a lot of room in front of the hospital for people to gather."
A sequined glove, a tribute to Jackson's jewel-encrusted trademark, lay among the bouquets, posters and votive candles at an impromptu memorial to Jackson outside the hospital. Slowly, the press and the crowds began to let up. Many TV news crews left after a final 11 p.m. live shot, and although the satellite trucks returned as early as 2 a.m. to begin shooting for morning news shows, the street was almost bare of news vehicles by late morning. Campus and hospital media representatives continued to receive calls for days, and professors from across campus were called on for their expertise to comment on aspects of Jackson's life and legacy.
But the same day that the crowds arrived on campus, they also dissipated. Facilities Management sent clean-up crews to collect the debris left behind by the hundreds of onlookers, and an impromptu memorial to Jackson was contained within a red tape barrier. The morning after Jackson's death, the hundreds had dwindled to a half-dozen, and UCLA staff from campus police, fire, transportation, the hospital, media relations, and other units began to return to more routine duties.
"We worked really well with the hospital and media relations and parking and the LAPD and everyone else," said Adams. "I'm pretty proud of how all the different units on campus were able to work together to create that controlled chaos."
"It took a true team effort on the part of the hospital and the campus community to effectively manage a fluidly unfolding and fast-paced situation," said Roxanne Yamaguchi Moster, director of UCLA's Health Sciences Media Relations. "We are grateful for all of the support we received."
Dr. Cooper is reported to have called Time of Death.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/file/micha ... psy-report (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/file/michael-jackson-autopsy-report)
Dr. Richelle Cooper is who testified at the pre-lim. This is an article on her. http://www.contracostatimes.com/news/ci ... ck_check=1 (http://www.contracostatimes.com/news/ci_17035255?nclick_check=1)
I believe that UCLA has worked extra hard on keeping security and secrets about the patients they treat do to security breaches before. One of the people whose file was breached is Maria Shriver. When you understand who she is, who she is married to and who her family is; it makes sense that UCLA is hush hush. Connections can be made to CA Gov. Arnold through his wife considering that Jackie O was close to Michael. The hospital itself doesn't even have to have any involvement with Michael or the FBI, they just did their job. There maybe one key person in UCLA but for now it really doesn't matter.
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=311504#p311504 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=311504#p311504)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Shriver (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Shriver)
Shriver was born in Chicago, Illinois. A Roman Catholic of German descent through her father and Irish American descent through her mother, she is the second child and only daughter of the politician Sargent Shriver and Eunice Kennedy Shriver. Eunice was the sister of United States President John F. Kennedy, U.S. Attorney General and U.S. Senator Robert F. Kennedy, U.S. Senator Ted Kennedy and five other siblings.
-
I would like to stop and thank T.S for guiding us to the truth. You will be greatly blessed I'm sure because of your never ending determination to find the truth and share it with others
I know that the truth has set me free.
Thank you and God bless!
-
I wonder how those asleep can accept the toys in court room - just to name this - and not start scratching their head...
Toys indicate we are playing a game. The FBI doesn't play games.
I'm having a hard time following as of late. I'm watching intently but it's as if the channel changed when I blinked.
-
Hi, y'all. Long time no see, but only because my internet was totally defunct from December to a few weeks ago. I didn't leave, but I can see that Mo has, and I'll miss her, but apparently TS comments now? Hi, TS! I still have a lot of catching up to do on old stuff, so see y'all around.
-
I would like to stop and thank T.S for guiding us to the truth. You will be greatly blessed I'm sure because of your never ending determination to find the truth and share it with others
Thank you Dom. I was going to do the same. Although TS was criticized a lot by some believers and still is, TS never gave up on us and he never abandoned us. He could say "Ok, I'm done. Find your own clues and conclusions. Believe whatever you want to. I'm done with you." BUT he never did. He is still guiding us and trying to help us to find the truth itself. I want to thank TS too for his persistence, patience and his incomparable guidance to us. God bless you TS.
-
This is the operation that TS gave the link of. The parts I wrote in a big size seemed important to me.
Sting operation
In law enforcement, a sting operation is a deceptive operation designed to catch a person committing a crime. A typical sting will have a law-enforcement officer or cooperative member of the public play a role as criminal partner or potential victim and go along with a suspect's actions to gather evidence of the suspect's wrongdoing.
Examples
* Deploying a bait car (also called a honey trap) to catch an auto thief
* Setting up a seemingly vulnerable honeypot computer to lure and gain information about hackers
* Arranging someone under the legal drinking age to ask an adult to buy an alcoholic beverage or tobacco products for them.[1]
* Posing as someone who is seeking illegal drugs, contraband or child pornography to catch a supplier; or as a supplier to catch a customer.
* Passing off explosives to a would-be terror bomber.
* Posing as a child in a chat room to lure a child molester
* An undercover officer posing as a potential customer to raid illegal prostitution.
* An undercover officer posing as a prostitute to raid illegal patronage.
Ethical and legal concerns
Sting operations are fraught with ethical concerns over whether they constitute entrapment. Law-enforcement may have to be careful not to provoke the commission of a crime by someone who would not normally be inclined to do so. Additionally, in the process of such operations, the police often engage in the same crimes, such as buying or selling contraband, soliciting prostitutes, etc. In common law jurisdictions, the defendant may invoke the defense of entrapment.
Contrary to popular misconceptions, however, entrapment does not prohibit undercover police officers from posing as criminals or denying that they are police. Entrapment is typically only a defense if a suspect is pressured into committing a crime they would probably not have committed otherwise, though the legal definition of this pressure varies greatly from country to country. For example, if undercover officers coerced a potential suspect into manufacturing illegal drugs to sell them, then the accused could use entrapment as a defense. However, if a suspect is already manufacturing drugs and police pose as buyers to catch him, then entrapment usually has not occurred.
-
Just wondering...
Do you think the cabinet from the pictures match the cabinet from the video? Wouldn't that white border show up in the pictures?
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12209)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12208)
Good catch! I'm glad somebody noticed this--it is one of the "secrets" that I have been planning on pointing out, if nobody found it. But I'm always glad when someone else finds it first. There is one more thing about this that I will include later, if nobody else gets it first.
TS, I was wondering what the other one more thing you were going to include. Did you write it to us already or someone else has found it or are you waiting for the ambulance research/discussion to end?
So far, I haven't seen anyone find the other thing on this. I'll give it a few more days for someone else to find it.
Can you at least give us help in the right direction...it's hard to know what were looking for when we have nothing to go on. :)
Back on topic ...
I am now going to say that the staged photo was done in the same LAFD #71 ambulance--there were not two different ambulances. In fact, why would they need a different ambulance (rented or otherwise), if the FBI was working directly with LAFD station #71?
The answer to the above pictures can be found in this video {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A09tRR6ppKQ}.
I have watched this video before you used it as some kind of evidence to say the answers are in there to the above pictures. You didn't say it was the answers to prove that the ambulance was one in the same. You only said it was the answer to the above pictures. I think you are bluffing when you say the staged ambulance pic and the real ambulance are one in the same. I have not held the belief that the FBI is directly working with LAFD. I have said the LAFD is cooperating with Michael and the FBI through a KEY person at LAFD. That person imo is The Fire Captain. I do not think he even talks to the FBI. Need to know. 8-)
-
TS_comments wrote:
2good2btrue wrote:
Sorry, but I don't buy that he would make people/fans suffer unnecessarily just for a joke.! It has to be something more serious than that....
Remember, his children are playing a part in this too, and I don't think MJ would make them lie, just for fun. This has caused pain to many people, on many levels. ...
I agree, that this was not "JUST" for a joke, or fun. And I included several reasons other than just a prank. However, even though there are several other reasons, you know MJ is a prankster--and he is certainly capable of throwing some things in for a laugh here and there. I'm sure that you have read many people refer to the trial as the man's-laughter (manslaughter) case.
By the way, speaking of toys in the courtroom: did anyone notice that the same judge did NOT have the yellow taxi in LiLo's recent court appearance? {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbZfxi4PoME}
TS, even though there wasn't the yellow cab on the desk, there was the yellow rag doll or sunflower (as I thought). These are two different days, I know, and I also recognise all the security guards as being the same as Dr Murrays trial..at the airport courthouse..
[youtube:zuq0nt4s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMW4OZ4qrgg&feature=related[/youtube:zuq0nt4s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMW4OZ4qrgg&feature=related
-
Entrapment
In criminal law, entrapment is constituted by a law enforcement agent inducing a person to commit an offense that the person would otherwise have been unlikely to commit. In many jurisdictions, entrapment is a possible defense against criminal liability. However, there is no entrapment where a person is ready and willing to break the law and the government agents merely provide what appears to be a favorable opportunity for the person to commit the crime. For example, it is not entrapment for a government agent to pretend to be someone else and to offer, either directly or through an informant or other decoy, to engage in an unlawful transaction with the person (see sting operation). So, a person would not be a victim of entrapment if the person was ready, willing and able to commit the crime charged in the indictment whenever opportunity was afforded, and that government officers or their agents did no more than offer an opportunity.
On the other hand, if the evidence leaves a reasonable doubt whether the person had any intent to commit the crime had it not been for inducement or persuasion on the part of some government officer or agent, then the person is not guilty. For example, even though someone may have sold drugs, as indicted by the government, if it was the result of entrapment then the person is not guilty.
Entrapment holds if all three conditions are fulfilled:
1. The idea for committing the crime came from the government agents and not from the person accused of the crime.
2. Government agents then persuaded or talked the person into committing the crime. Simply giving someone the opportunity to commit a crime is not the same as persuading them to commit that crime.
3. The person was not ready and willing to commit the crime before interaction with the government agents.
On the issue of entrapment, the prosecution must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant was not entrapped by government agents.
United States
The entrapment defense in the United States has evolved mainly through case law. Two competing tests exist for determining whether entrapment has taken place, known as the "subjective" and "objective" tests. The "subjective" test looks at the defendant's state of mind; entrapment can be claimed if the defendant had no "predisposition" to commit the crime. The "objective" test looks instead at the government's conduct; entrapment occurs when the actions of government officers would have caused a normally law-abiding person to commit a crime.
Courts took a dim view of the defense at first. "[It] has never availed to shield crime or give indemnity to the culprit, and it is safe to say that under any code of civilized, not to say Christian, ethics, it never will" a New York Supreme Court said in 1864.Forty years later, another judge in that state would affirm that rejection, arguing "[courts] should not hesitate to punish the crime actually committed by the defendant" when rejecting entrapment claimed in a grand larceny case.
Other states, however, had already begun reversing convictions on entrapment grounds. Federal courts recognized entrapment as a defense starting with Woo Wai v. United States, 223 F.1d 412 (9th Cir. 1915).The U.S. Supreme Court first declined to consider the question of entrapment in Casey v. United States, 276 U.S. 413 (1928), since the facts in the case were too vague to definitively rule on the question. Four years later, it did and in Sorrells v. United States, 287 U.S. 435 (1932) unanimously reversed the conviction of a North Carolina factory worker who gave in to an undercover Prohibition officer's repeated entreaties to get him some liquor. It identified the controlling question as "whether the defendant is a person otherwise innocent whom the government is seeking to punish for an alleged offense which is the product of the creative activity of its own officials".
In Sherman v. United States (356 U.S. 369 (1958)), the Court considered a similar case in which one recovering drug addict working with federal agents from the Federal Bureau of Narcotics (a predecessor agency to today's Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA)) solicited another to sell him drugs on the premise that his own efforts were failing. Again unanimous, its opinion focused more clearly on the defendant's predisposition to commit the offense, and on that basis overturned Sherman's conviction as well, since although he had two prior drug convictions, the most recent dated back five years. He was also attempting to rehabilitate himself, had made no profit on the sales and no drugs were found in his apartment when it was searched, suggesting the absence of a predisposition to break drug laws. "To determine whether entrapment has been established," it said, "a line must be drawn between the trap for the unwary innocent and the trap for the unwary criminal".
Prosecutors won the next two times entrapment came before the Court, in United States v. Russell (411 U.S. 423 (1973)) and Hampton v. United States (425 U.S. 484 (1976)), albeit by narrow margins. In the former, the Court upheld the conviction of a Washington man for manufacturing methamphetamine even though an undercover agent had supplied some of the ingredients, and also pondered an "outrageous government conduct" defense, though it did not enable it. Hampton let stand, by a similar margin, the conviction of a Missouri man who had, upon seeing track marks on a DEA informant's arms, expressed interest in selling him heroin. After several sales to the informant and undercover agents, he was arrested. The defendant alleged he had been led to believe by the informant that he was not selling heroin but a counterfeit. The Court found he was adequately predisposed to sell heroin in any event.
This became known as the "subjective" test of entrapment, since it focused on the defendant's state of mind. However, in all cases, concurring opinions had advocated an "objective" test, focusing instead on whether the conduct of the police or other investigators would catch only those "ready and willing to commit crime."Under the objective approach the defendant's personality (i.e., his predisposition to commit the crime) would be immaterial, and the potential for the police conduct to induce a law-abiding person considered in the abstract would be the test. This, supporters argued, avoided the dubious issue of an unexpressed legislative intent on which the Sorrells court had relied and instead grounded the entrapment defense, like the exclusionary rule, in the court's supervisory role over law enforcement. And like the exclusionary rule, they would have had judges, not juries, decide whether a defendant had been entrapped as a matter of law.
Since the subjective test focusing on predisposition had, unlike the exclusionary rule, not been applied to the states, they were free to follow it as they saw fit. The state courts or legislatures of 37 states have chosen the subjective test, while the others use the objective test. Some have allowed both the judge and the jury to rule on whether the defendant was entrapped.
In the Supreme Court's last major ruling on entrapment, Jacobson v. United States (503 U.S. 540 (1992)), which overturned the conviction of a Nebraska man for receiving child pornography via the mail, the subjective vs. objective debate was completely absent. Both the majority and dissenting opinions focused solely on whether the prosecution had established that the defendant had a predisposition for purchasing such material (which had only recently been outlawed at the time of his arrest). Since no other material was found in his home save what he had purchased from the undercover postal inspectors, Justice Byron White believed the operation had implanted the idea in his mind through mailings decrying politicians for assaulting civil liberties by passing laws such as the one the inspectors hoped he would break. Sandra Day O'Connor disagreed in her dissent, arguing that the record did indeed establish that Jacobson was interested in continuing the purchases. Analysts believed that was the Court's indication it considered the subjective vs. objective debate settled.
University of Arizona law professor Gabriel J. Chin points out that the entire federal entrapment defense rests on statutory construction - an interpretation of the will of Congress in passing the criminal statutes. As this is not a Constitutional prohibition, Congress may change or override this interpretation by passing a law.[12]
-
Entrapment
In criminal law, entrapment is constituted by a law enforcement agent inducing a person to commit an offense that the person would otherwise have been unlikely to commit. In many jurisdictions, entrapment is a possible defense against criminal liability. However, there is no entrapment where a person is ready and willing to break the law and the government agents merely provide what appears to be a favorable opportunity for the person to commit the crime. For example, it is not entrapment for a government agent to pretend to be someone else and to offer, either directly or through an informant or other decoy, to engage in an unlawful transaction with the person (see sting operation). So, a person would not be a victim of entrapment if the person was ready, willing and able to commit the crime charged in the indictment whenever opportunity was afforded, and that government officers or their agents did no more than offer an opportunity.
On the other hand, if the evidence leaves a reasonable doubt whether the person had any intent to commit the crime had it not been for inducement or persuasion on the part of some government officer or agent, then the person is not guilty. For example, even though someone may have sold drugs, as indicted by the government, if it was the result of entrapment then the person is not guilty.
Entrapment holds if all three conditions are fulfilled:
1. The idea for committing the crime came from the government agents and not from the person accused of the crime.
2. Government agents then persuaded or talked the person into committing the crime. Simply giving someone the opportunity to commit a crime is not the same as persuading them to commit that crime.
3. The person was not ready and willing to commit the crime before interaction with the government agents.
On the issue of entrapment, the prosecution must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant was not entrapped by government agents.
When we think about all the conditions that need to be fulfilled,
1-The idea for committing the crime came from the government agents and not from the person accused of the crime.
So, to fake his death idea needed to come from the FBI, not from MJ himself which doesn't sound very plausible to me. What do you guys think? Which one fits with Michael's hoax? The Sting Operation or the Entrapment?
-
This is going to be a hard code to crack. Too many possibilities and no answers.
My gut tells me to KISS......Keep it simple stupid :D :D
Pure Love, thanks for all that information..it could be very possible, but we have to remember all the numerology side of the hoax. And then there's MJ telling Lisa Marie that he was afraid he would end up like her father Elvis !! He must of had some idea that things would get so bad, that he would have to fake his death.
There have been so many leeches surrounding and using MJ for most of his life. He didn't know who to trust anymore.
I have to put myself in his shoes. What would I do to protect myself if I was in danger..??
There is still the issue of the WILL, and it's authenticity...and the estate taking over all the finacial matters without consent (if its fake).
The best way to catch a crook, is red handed.! ;) ;)
-
TS
I have always said that MJ was in danger, but it was not imminent danger on June 25. Did he realize on the morning of June 25, that someone was hot on his tracks--and then he suddenly decided to make a dash for the airport, while planning and orchestrating the hoax by cell phone on the run? No, he had this planned for a long time; the numerology, the "illusion", and even his statement to Randy the night before--all these show us clearly that MJ already had it planned to the exact day. Therefore, it was not a last-minute idea to escape imminent danger. Also, I did not say that the list I gave was all of the reasons for the hoax.
I will discuss about the "prank" aspect a little more in my next comment.
What kind of danger if he could carefully execute a long-planned on-the-day hoax? Maybe it was not mortal danger, but of being bullied, ridiculed, sued and tricked to make money for others. MJ's statement to Randy thanking him and saying he could take it from there, indicates that Randy and possibly AEG are on his side and not a threat, and they hired Murray. If there are even more reasons for the hoax than your other list of 7, then that adds to the complexity multiplied times keeping everything coordinated and possible, including numerology, for a genius person-- many geniuses and lends to needing the supernatural.
by ~Souza~ » Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:46 pm
This FBI thing is so interesting, but it is grasping at straws. When did they become involved, who is/are the target(s), when did they wrap it up, or haven't they yet? I have many many many many questions at the moment. It also makes me wonder if Evan Chandler is in the WPP, I always thought it was too much of a coincidence he died on November 5th. Although he's a piece of shit, he most likely only was a puppet for the puppeteers, so he might have given information to catch the bigger fish.
Seems to me also Evan Chandler and Peter Lopez are in the WPP because their lives would/could be in danger, because some were afraid they're be found out. That 5th of Nov death freaked me out almost like MJ knew he would do it, so no I think MJ needed him for later on.
dom425 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:35 pm
I would like to stop and thank T.S for guiding us to the truth. You will be greatly blessed I'm sure because of your never ending determination to find the truth and share it with others
I know that the truth has set me free.
Thank you and God bless!
My impression is that TS is not looking for the truth, but leading us on a merry chase collecting pieces where he knows they are hidden and helping us to fit them into the puzzle. He's got the box with the picture on the front.
PureLove, its interesting about the Entrapment in law. I'm thinking that the FBI and MJ together are entrapping people like doctors who may be enablers for drug addiction contributing to many tragic young deaths especially in the entertainment industry, so that would justify faking his death as part of the entrapment.
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o-yZt7y ... r_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o-yZt7yERk&feature=player_embedded)
[youtube:lqsg2ajf]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o-yZt7yERk&feature=player_embedded[/youtube:lqsg2ajf]
-
PureLove, its interesting about the Entrapment in law. I'm thinking that the FBI and MJ together are entrapping people like doctors who may be enablers for drug addiction contributing to many tragic young deaths especially in the entertainment industry, so that would justify faking his death as part of the entrapment.
In Entrapment, it says that the idea for committing the crime comes from the government agents and not from the person accused of the crime. This made me think why would FBI ask MJ to fake his death? IMO, MJ asked them for their help. And in Sting Operation it says;
* Posing as someone who is seeking illegal drugs, to catch a supplier.
It was told that Mj was into drugs. So it seems more plausible to me that it was a Sting Operaiton that MJ and the FBI did together.
-
PureLove, its interesting about the Entrapment in law. I'm thinking that the FBI and MJ together are entrapping people like doctors who may be enablers for drug addiction contributing to many tragic young deaths especially in the entertainment industry, so that would justify faking his death as part of the entrapment.
In Entrapment, it says that the idea for committing the crime comes from the government agents and not from the person accused of the crime. This made me think why would FBI ask MJ to fake his death? IMO, MJ asked them for their help. And in Sting Operation it says;
* Posing as someone who is seeking illegal drugs, to catch a supplier.
It was told that Mj was into drugs. So it seems more plausible to me that it was a Sting Operaiton that MJ and the FBI did together.
A agree with that theory....that's why the family are sticking to the story that MJ was addicted to drugs, even though that helps Murrays defense..(that never made sense to me). On the other hand, we have witnesses that say MJ was in fantastic shape.
The illusion is that MJ was a drug addict, and has so many drugs at home that he never touched, with alias names on them. Too many celebrities are dying so young. If we can just get those Dr's that are illegally distrubuting drugs without any compassion for human life, then we have saved so many lives...
That's why I believe Justin Beiber said "If it wasn't for Michael Jackson, none of us would be here". All the pieces slowly fit togehter. MJ best friend "James Brown" died and Dr Murray is said to be one of his doctors. This is a huge sting operation, and MJ has gambled with his reputation by making the world believe he was addicted to illegal drugs...propofol is the worst it could get, because it is not something that you can get easily and is illegal outside of a hospital setting. Anna Nicole Smith is another ag.
This type of investigation could take a while....and Elvis is the clue. He was involved in the drug tast force......
-
Just wondering...
Do you think the cabinet from the pictures match the cabinet from the video? Wouldn't that white border show up in the pictures?
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12209)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12208)
Good catch! I'm glad somebody noticed this--it is one of the "secrets" that I have been planning on pointing out, if nobody found it. But I'm always glad when someone else finds it first. There is one more thing about this that I will include later, if nobody else gets it first.
TS, I was wondering what the other one more thing you were going to include. Did you write it to us already or someone else has found it or are you waiting for the ambulance research/discussion to end?
So far, I haven't seen anyone find the other thing on this. I'll give it a few more days for someone else to find it.
Can you at least give us help in the right direction...it's hard to know what were looking for when we have nothing to go on. :)
Back on topic ...
I am now going to say that the staged photo was done in the same LAFD #71 ambulance--there were not two different ambulances. In fact, why would they need a different ambulance (rented or otherwise), if the FBI was working directly with LAFD station #71?
The answer to the above pictures can be found in this video {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A09tRR6ppKQ}.
I thought it might have been a port side window instead of a supply cabinet or recessed monitor of some sort, but no such window translates to the outside of the vehicle in the video in TS' last link...
The only thing I see which is not in the ambulance pix TS supplied on Feb 26 is that the supply drawers and cabinet are labeled. What possible meaning this could have, IDK.
Someone already mentioned (way back) a red item, which I thought they said looked like an extra seat cushion, which, now appears to be a trash or barf bucket, and this went un-acknowledged as right or wrong, so...still looking. :roll:
-
Back on topic ...
I am now going to say that the staged photo was done in the same LAFD #71 ambulance--there were not two different ambulances. In fact, why would they need a different ambulance (rented or otherwise), if the FBI was working directly with LAFD station #71?
The answer to the above pictures can be found in this video {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A09tRR6ppKQ}.
Hmm, now I'm confused. Are you just saying it or is it true? lol
:P GO Socrates :!:
(I had that same paranoia :oops: :lol:
Thanx for the comic relief!! )
-
When we think about all the conditions that need to be fulfilled,
1-The idea for committing the crime came from the government agents and not from the person accused of the crime.
So, to fake his death idea needed to come from the FBI, not from MJ himself which doesn't sound very plausible to me. What do you guys think? Which one fits with Michael's hoax? The Sting Operation or the Entrapment?
What are you thinking is 'the crime' here? You seem to be looking at it as if MJ was 'entrapped', that he has committed some crime. Faking your death is not a crime in itself. I'm not clear what you're getting at.
IMO, the crime, if indeed there was/is one that required the involvement of the FBI, would probably be related to drugs and/or child abuse as these are the two areas that people, for whatever reason, associate with MJ. Having the world thinking of him as a drug addict and child abuser, he's in an ideal position to be part of a sting operation. He's not the one committing crimes, but it would seem very plausible that he's helping catch those that are.
2good2btrue, you just said much the same but far better than me!
-
I'm not sure if you understood what I was saying. When I said "got paid for it", I did not mean FBI agents. In this context, I am arguing against the idea that the FBI are not involved at all. If the FBI are not involved, then what implications are there for LAFD?
Ok. I thought you were talking about how the FBI got involved, not about how LAFD got involved and paid for. I wanted to be sure.
I have always said that MJ was in danger, but it was not imminent danger on June 25. Did he realize on the morning of June 25, that someone was hot on his tracks--and then he suddenly decided to make a dash for the airport, while planning and orchestrating the hoax by cell phone on the run? No, he had this planned for a long time; the numerology, the "illusion", and even his statement to Randy the night before--all these show us clearly that MJ already had it planned to the exact day. Therefore, it was not a last-minute idea to escape imminent danger. Also, I did not say that the list I gave was all of the reasons for the hoax.
I will discuss about the "prank" aspect a little more in my next comment.
Regarding Michael being in danger, and the reason why he did all this- I am very interested in this part too. Some people think that he could put all this out only if he was in danger. Since the beginning, I always had my opinion that he didn't do this because he was in danger. Not as a main reason, anyway. I am sure he was and probably still is in danger all the time, but I not a life threating danger with no way out. I believe he has been in danger, since he was even a child and teenager, he's been dealing with danger and probably he is still dealing with danger, but this, for me, is not the reason of why he did this. I am really curious if it's how I think.
Also, the danger, in my opinion, played a role in this, but this whole situation was not because of danger, and that danger is somehow the smallest issue in this.
Also, about this whole thing being a game, I strongly believe this all is not a game.Not even in the slightest way. The whole toy-thing at the court for me is not a proof of anything, it COULD be a clue as in a little prank from Michael but it still doesn't mean it's a game.
-
TS, I am now going to say that the staged photo was done in the same LAFD #71 ambulance--there were not two different ambulances.
I don't know if it was mentioned, but could the white trim simply be lighting from a different direction causing the metalic frame to reflect and appear white? Plus the photographers are standing in 2 totally different angles to the cabinet frame.
-
When we think about all the conditions that need to be fulfilled,
1-The idea for committing the crime came from the government agents and not from the person accused of the crime.
So, to fake his death idea needed to come from the FBI, not from MJ himself which doesn't sound very plausible to me. What do you guys think? Which one fits with Michael's hoax? The Sting Operation or the Entrapment?
What are you thinking is 'the crime' here? You seem to be looking at it as if MJ was 'entrapped', that he has committed some crime. Faking your death is not a crime in itself. I'm not clear what you're getting at.
IMO, the crime, if indeed there was/is one that required the involvement of the FBI, would probably be related to drugs and/or child abuse as these are the two areas that people, for whatever reason, associate with MJ. Having the world thinking of him as a drug addict and child abuser, he's in an ideal position to be part of a sting operation. He's not the one committing crimes, but it would seem very plausible that he's helping catch those that are.
2good2btrue, you just said much the same but far better than me!
I think there is a misunderstanding here. I didn't say that there is a crime that MJ committed. I simply wrote the rules of getting into these deals with the FBI. I wrote the Entrapment doesn't sound plausible because FBI needed to go and ask MJ to fake his death, even faking a death is a crime or not. And I do believe that it was MJ's idea not FBI's. And in Sting Operation cooperative member of the public play a role as criminal partner or potential victim and go along with a suspect's actions to gather evidence of the suspect's wrongdoing. So I did mean that the Sting Operation sounds so plausible as MJ wanted to be with the FBI to get to those who commited the crime IMO. I hope I'm clear with this now.
In Entrapment, it says that the idea for committing the crime comes from the government agents and not from the person accused of the crime. This made me think why would FBI ask MJ to fake his death? IMO, MJ asked them for their help. And in Sting Operation it says;
* Posing as someone who is seeking illegal drugs, to catch a supplier.
It was told that Mj was into drugs. So it seems more plausible to me that it was a Sting Operaiton that MJ and the FBI did together.
-
PureLove, its interesting about the Entrapment in law. I'm thinking that the FBI and MJ together are entrapping people like doctors who may be enablers for drug addiction contributing to many tragic young deaths especially in the entertainment industry, so that would justify faking his death as part of the entrapment.
In Entrapment, it says that the idea for committing the crime comes from the government agents and not from the person accused of the crime. This made me think why would FBI ask MJ to fake his death? IMO, MJ asked them for their help. And in Sting Operation it says;
* Posing as someone who is seeking illegal drugs, to catch a supplier.
It was told that Mj was into drugs. So it seems more plausible to me that it was a Sting Operaiton that MJ and the FBI did together.
A agree with that theory....that's why the family are sticking to the story that MJ was addicted to drugs, even though that helps Murrays defense..(that never made sense to me). On the other hand, we have witnesses that say MJ was in fantastic shape.
The illusion is that MJ was a drug addict, and has so many drugs at home that he never touched, with alias names on them. Too many celebrities are dying so young. If we can just get those Dr's that are illegally distrubuting drugs without any compassion for human life, then we have saved so many lives...
That's why I believe Justin Beiber said "If it wasn't for Michael Jackson, none of us would be here". All the pieces slowly fit togehter. MJ best friend "James Brown" died and Dr Murray is said to be one of his doctors. This is a huge sting operation, and MJ has gambled with his reputation by making the world believe he was addicted to illegal drugs...propofol is the worst it could get, because it is not something that you can get easily and is illegal outside of a hospital setting. Anna Nicole Smith is another ag.
This type of investigation could take a while....and Elvis is the clue. He was involved in the drug tast force......
Totally agree. Thank you for putting the right words that I was trying to find to express my opinion . :)
-
Sorry, but I don't buy that he would make people/fans suffer unnecessarily just for a joke.! It has to be something more serious than that....
Remember, his children are playing a part in this too, and I don't think MJ would make them lie, just for fun. This has caused pain to many people, on many levels. ...
I agree, that this was not "JUST" for a joke, or fun. And I included several reasons other than just a prank. However, even though there are several other reasons, you know MJ is a prankster--and he is certainly capable of throwing some things in for a laugh here and there. I'm sure that you have read many people refer to the trial as the man's-laughter (manslaughter) case.
By the way, speaking of toys in the courtroom: did anyone notice that the same judge did NOT have the yellow taxi in LiLo's recent court appearance? {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbZfxi4PoME}
Thank you TS :D yes I had watched this video of LiLo['s court appearance a while ago, and noted the absence of any toys in the court room, but thank you for reconfirming my belief in that. ;) :D
This journey has sharpened up my observational skills. :lol: :lol:
-
Wow MsTrinity333...I just watched that video you posted.....
I don't know what to say. My first reaction was that of something that shook my thoughts on June25th itself. It was a double that really did pass away. The numerology points to a premeditated plan. However, this is Michael Jackson. The phrase meet the man you never knew is resonating within me....I'd like to meet him, I want to meet him, but will never have that chance. If we never knew him, would we recognize him standing in front of us?
Alas, poor Michael, we didn't know you at all.....let's change that, shall we??
Blessings Always
Hi Wishingstar,
Do you or anyone remember this? Wasn't Bill Bray a retired police officer? It's very possible that long hours of cop talk, one on one, convinced MJ that this was the thing to be.
It would not have taken much for that genius to find and personally mold a replacement to take his public place the last two decades as the sweet K.o.P., and concoct a big cover story, in order that he could work as an undercover agent all this time. I always thought Michael Jackson, K.o.P. was a cover for some deep European humanitarian endeavor, but I never thought American FED POLICE. :shock:
So, I say, "the man we never knew" is NOT some dead "double", whom we can never even meet, now. He is probably that same MJ on the Off the Wall , or THRILLER album covers, whom we never suspected, had stepped out a decade or two, to play hookie (sort of like in that movie, The Miracle), and sting REAL bad guys...Perhaps the FBI retired "Agent ;) M", as someone here called him, at 50, and MJ is going to go back to his first love, designing and promoting The Greatest Show On Earth---HIS!! 8-) :D
Last year, someone suggested MJ would come back having a different career than as the King of Pop, and different than the one I proposed, some kind of rainforest missionary (Well...). He would make an excellent teacher, Professor, lawyer, or logistical strategist in any field, but he's SAID his passion is film making, DRAMA, storytelling, music, magic, escape...
Man, THIS is not that much of a switch! Real police drama instead of fiction. "Back" said MJ would be back as a Black Knight. When an officer goes "under", it means they have to appear to live the life and persona of really evil people they are busting up, without actually breaking the law. It is a very draining CIRCUS tightrope walk and they are hated more than regular cops, because of this, but MJ would not be moved.
Maybe it's part of his cover story, that he's all gentle and sweet, kind to bugs and plants, when he's really a calculating, International Alpha-assassin of degenerate criminal acts!! omg, MJ...
I've changed my mind about him having a service revolver, even though it is dangerous and scary to me... "V" said, "Sometimes violence is a good thing".
This would earn him a name such as Black (stealth, under hidden cover of intelligence--like the Batman) Knight (Hero, Savior).
When we see him we are going to do this: :o 8-) :D It will be a happy day.
I won't write a book :oops: on this, just responding to Wishingstar's post, for a minute, here, in the thread where it is, 'k? :)
-
Back on topic ...
I am now going to say that the staged photo was done in the same LAFD #71 ambulance--there were not two different ambulances. In fact, why would they need a different ambulance (rented or otherwise), if the FBI was working directly with LAFD station #71?
The answer to the above pictures can be found in this video {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A09tRR6ppKQ}.
So since the real ambulance was used on both days then that could mean;
-On the other day the FBI used two of their people to stage the ambulance photo
-Then on June 25th there were real paramedics answering a real 911 call.
But what I don't understand with this theory is if the FBI were on one day and the real paramedics were at Carolwood on June 25th then the paramedics would see that the photo was fake.
Or maybe the paramedics are in on it and were used on both days. But again what I don't get is, if the paramedics were in on it there would be no need to use two days.
So maybe the FBI did stage the MJ photo ('the other day') and I guess the way they could do that without the paramedics knowing is if the paramedics had a day off or were working at some other ambulance department that other day. Then when it came to June 25th the paramedics answered the call came to MJ's house and worked on a real patient. So the two photo's were merged together with the real ambulance officers in the picture and the other day photo of MJ photo-shopped in. But it still makes no sense because the paramedics would see the photo of MJ on the gurney isn't the same one of the patient they were working on.
Also, why don't we see the paramedics faces? Maybe it's because of some sort of protocol.
So the only thing I can think of is the paramedics know, or maybe the FBI trained two of it's people or already had people who were paramedics and so they worked there for maybe a month or a few months so no one else would know about the hoax when it came up to June 25th...but that still wouldn't explain why there are two separate days to stage the photo unless, there was only supposed to be one day but something didn't go to plan.
Also does anyone know if paramedics use the same ambulance every time they go to work or do they change location all the time?
-
I think there is a misunderstanding here. I didn't say that there is a crime that MJ committed. I simply wrote the rules of getting into these deals with the FBI. I wrote the Entrapment doesn't sound plausible because FBI needed to go and ask MJ to fake his death, even faking a death is a crime or not. And I do believe that it was MJ's idea not FBI's. And in Sting Operation cooperative member of the public play a role as criminal partner or potential victim and go along with a suspect's actions to gather evidence of the suspect's wrongdoing. So I did mean that the Sting Operation sounds so plausible as MJ wanted to be with the FBI to get to those who commited the crime IMO. I hope I'm clear with this now.
Thanks PureLove - I understand what you wanted to say now.
-
so i notice when they open the first door to show equipment a set of numbers lying on the floor. is it possible that the actual purpose for these is to be able to change them in the event of needing to divert attention away from a particular ambulance at a particular time. what would be there possible purpose?
[youtube:38zujanu]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A09tRR6ppKQ[/youtube:38zujanu]
-
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/prank (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/prank)
-
This is the operation that TS gave the link of. The parts I wrote in a big size seemed important to me.
Sting operation
In law enforcement, a sting operation is a deceptive operation designed to catch a person committing a crime. A typical sting will have a law-enforcement officer or cooperative member of the public play a role as criminal partner or potential victim and go along with a suspect's actions to gather evidence of the suspect's wrongdoing.
Examples
* Deploying a bait car (also called a honey trap) to catch an auto thief
* Setting up a seemingly vulnerable honeypot computer to lure and gain information about hackers
* Arranging someone under the legal drinking age to ask an adult to buy an alcoholic beverage or tobacco products for them.[1]
* Posing as someone who is seeking illegal drugs, contraband or child pornography to catch a supplier; or as a supplier to catch a customer.
* Passing off explosives to a would-be terror bomber.
* Posing as a child in a chat room to lure a child molester
* An undercover officer posing as a potential customer to raid illegal prostitution.
* An undercover officer posing as a prostitute to raid illegal patronage.
Ethical and legal concerns
Sting operations are fraught with ethical concerns over whether they constitute entrapment. Law-enforcement may have to be careful not to provoke the commission of a crime by someone who would not normally be inclined to do so. Additionally, in the process of such operations, the police often engage in the same crimes, such as buying or selling contraband, soliciting prostitutes, etc. In common law jurisdictions, the defendant may invoke the defense of entrapment.
Contrary to popular misconceptions, however, entrapment does not prohibit undercover police officers from posing as criminals or denying that they are police. Entrapment is typically only a defense if a suspect is pressured into committing a crime they would probably not have committed otherwise, though the legal definition of this pressure varies greatly from country to country. For example, if undercover officers coerced a potential suspect into manufacturing illegal drugs to sell them, then the accused could use entrapment as a defense. However, if a suspect is already manufacturing drugs and police pose as buyers to catch him, then entrapment usually has not occurred.
Thank you for this information, very interesting...
-
Yes thanks PureLove, I remember when this possibility was discussed a long time ago. When the documentary Michael Jackson's Last Days was shown over and over in July 2009 the part that always stood out to me was when they were talking to one of the Hollywood Dr Feelgoods and he was saying that addiction to medication of all sorts was rife in Hollywood and people would be shocked if they knew how widespread it was and the names of some of those he'd prescribed to. He was talking huge names that the public would never suspect of being addicts. Of course he didn't divulge those names but still...
-
I know this isn't about the ambulance picture, but I believe this information to be really important.
It had been rumored that he had died from a drug overdose. It is a well known and documented fact that Elvis had always been a strong believer and fighter against communism and drug use. In a meeting with President Richard Nixon on December 20, 1970, Elvis stated his true feelings against drugs and communism, believing that the two were definitely related. At that time, the President appointed him to be a Special Agent in the Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs (now known as the Drug Enforcement Agency or DEA). What a perfect way to stage his escape from the limelight and publicity to move into undercover activities to prevent the use of drugs, than to say that he had died from the use of drugs.
In that meeting between the President of the United States and the King of Rock-n-Roll, President Nixon told Elvis that his image, reputation and credibility with his fans especially the younger kids and the hippie crowd, must not be tarnished. Elvis needed to maintain, in the public's eye, what had already been established. If Elvis were to go public about becoming a part of the war on drugs, suspicions would surely arise and any future plans of Elvis being able to be an effective force for the government would be destroyed.
Elvis was able to keep his involvement with the government, his public life and his private life completely separate but all the same. His involvement in bringing down drug dealers, and activities by the Mafioso, musicians and Hollywood actors came about as he performed and made public appearances as his family traveled and joined him most of the time. He was able to keep his activities with the Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs and his involvement with the Federal Bureau of Investigations secret from his fans and family. The only one in his family that knew of Elvis's activities was his father Vernon. Vernon knew far more than all of Elvis's entourage, assistants, the government, his family and fans all put together.
In 1976 Elvis had become a part of a sting operation orchestrated by the FBI against the Mafia. Vernon had needed to raise some extra cash since the private jet that Elvis was leasing was a major hemorrhage in their expenses. Vernon was approached by Fredrick Pro, president of Air Cargo Airlines out of Florida. Fredrick was known to the FBI as Alfredo Poc, president of Trident Consortium in New York, and under investigation for racketeering, fraud and other Mafia activities. An agreement was reached between Vernon and Fredrick on how to refinance the plane, lease it to Fredrick, and gain an extra $10,000 a month on the plane. AT first Vernon was completely niave of what Pro and his co-horts were up to. As checks that were promised to come in from Pro were either not appearing or were bounced. Vernon had contacted the FBI.
The FBI had been monitoring Pro and his other Mafia connections since the mid 1960's. The FBI assigned two of their best Special Agents to go undercover in Elvis's entourage to infiltrate the mob activities. Vernon and Elvis were briefed on the continuing investigation and were excited to help the FBI in their operation.
By July 1977, the FBI felt it had enough evidence to arrest and convict the world wide Mafia ring that defrauded the Presley family of over one million dollars and many other organizations around the world.
Arrest warrants for everyone in the fraud ring were issued on August 16, 1977. Not surprisingly enough that was the day Elvis "died".The night before, Elvis was extremely agitated. He seemed unusually worried about everything. The next day when he was announced to be dead, the paramedics showed up two hours after they were supposedly called, on their arrival they put on a terrific show trying to revive the King. The coroner's official report has never been released. Pictures of Elvis in his coffin have never been proven to be him. Handwriting experts have proven that the signature on his death certificate is Elvis's own handwriting.
In Elvis's last concert tour in the early summer of 1977, he left clues that he was not going to be around much longer in public. Elvis had said several times in that tour, "I dont look very good now, but I will look good in my coffin". He also stated that he was tired of living the way that he was, and that his life would change. He also said he would be just himself instead of an image.
Vernon had asked many of Elvis's close friends and family not to come to the funeral, but to come to Graceland a week later. He also would not accept the American flag, which is usually awarded to dead war veterans. At Elvis's request, Vernon did not order any new jumpsuits in 1977, which is quite odd, since he usually ordered at least two new ones a month.
Six weeks before his "death?", several publications released pictures of Elvis with his newly issued badge and identification from the DEA. He also was seen and photographed on a drug raid that same week wearing the typical DEA jogging suit.
Just two weeks before his "death", Elvis had met with then President Carter, who had issued a tribute to the world concerning his death. The tribute was released the moment Elvis's death was made public.
On October 18, 1977, Pro had finally been arrested along with many other men involved in the Presley fraud case. In September of 1978, they finally went to trial. During that trial, a secret witness testified. He told of things that only Elvis himself would know. The name of that witness has never been released publicly.
Getting Elvis out of public, private and Mafia sight was the only way the government could guarantee a conviction of Pro and his henchmen. In return the government had made Elvis one of their top undercover agents in the DEA.
As a special undercover DEA agent, he would be traveling around the globe, which explains why there are many "Elvis sightings" around the world.
During his entertainment days, Elvis would travel using fictitious names such as Col. James Burrows, Al Jefferies and others. Their have been photos of men traveling around the country, appearing on stage, and involved in drug and Mafia arrests that have gone by the names that Elvis used when publicly performing.
The mysteriousness of his "death" is good for Elvis so he can maintain his secret undercover identity and still be seen in public. In a very recent interview, a source that must remain anomoyus, said, "I saw Elvis in the mall exiting the J. Crew store. He was carrying large bags full of clothes and was traveling with some kids that seemed 'undesireable' and may be drug dealers or users".
The clues that leave no doubt that Elvis did not die on August 16, 1977, are endless and rock solid proof that he is working undercover for the federal government.
http://www.elvis-is-alive.com/ (http://www.elvis-is-alive.com/)
-
By the way, speaking of toys in the courtroom: did anyone notice that the same judge did NOT have the yellow taxi in LiLo's recent court appearance? {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbZfxi4PoME}
That's great, but why the doll is still there :? ?
Oh, I think it was the real #71 ambulance on June 25th at Michael's place.
-
TS, just a question. I am still cracking my head over this, but since I think this hoax was planned like 20 years ago, I was wondering where the FBI came in. I do think he has been involved with the FBI for a long time already, because it could explain to me some choices he made in the past that seemed a little strange. But if he was involved in a sting operation, it would explain some stuff.
This FBI thing is so interesting, but it is grasping at straws. When did they become involved, who is/are the target(s), when did they wrap it up, or haven't they yet? I have many many many many questions at the moment. It also makes me wonder if Evan Chandler is in the WPP, I always thought it was too much of a coincidence he died on November 5th. Although he's a piece of shit, he most likely only was a puppet for the puppeteers, so he might have given information to catch the bigger fish.
"This story has not ended, things are still unfolding." {http://twitter.com/randyjackson8/status/5113057529298944}.
-
Sorry, found something else that is weird...
In the ambulance pic we see that the leg of the paramedic at the head is next to the stretcher and that Mike's head is centered between his legs. But if you look at the video, you can see they roll the stretcher into those metal things, so that it won't move during transportation. But if you look at the position of the seat compared to the position of where the stretcher will be, you see that there is no way that the paramedic could have his leg there, unless he has go-go-gadget legs.
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/insideamb2.jpg)
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance3.jpg)
I also checked the position of the seat in the video that shows the inside of ambulance #71, and same story. It's not that they put the stretcher more to the left side of the ambulance. Firstly because that's pretty dangerous, and secondly because in that case there would be no room for the EMT standing in the pic. So my new conclusion is: the ambulance picture wasn't taken in an ambulance at all. It's either a set with the interior of the ambulance copied, or the interior of the ambulance was shopped into the picture.
But either way, they did not use ambulance #71 for that ambulance picture.
Edit:
@TS, why would they use an ambulance that could be used for real emergencies twice, if it's not necessary?
First of all, even under normal operations, the seat is there for the purpose of a paramedic to sit in it--and work with a patient on the stretcher, at least sometimes. Therefore, where would the legs of the paramedic go under normal operations, when he is working with a patient on the stretcher?
Second, the seat has a ridge on the right an left side of it; and in the ambulance photo, you can see that the paramedic sitting on the left ridge (left from his own perspective)--he is not sitting in the middle of the seat. This is no doubt to give his left leg room to fit around the stretcher. Furthermore, he is probably rotated a little counterclockwise (from a top view), which would also help accommodate his left leg; but this rotation is not very noticeable in the picture, because the camera is shooting at an angle (as well as the fact that the top half of his body is rotated left, towards the monitor screen).
Third, why would they go to all the time and money and risk of more people finding out, just to create a set that looks identical to ambulance #71--when they have a real ambulance readily available?
Fourth, your question about using an ambulance that could be used for real emergencies. Obviously, the ambulance with #71 on it at Carolwood was a real drivable ambulance--not merely a stationary set, in some studio. As far as staging the ambulance photo on "the other d ... [ay]"--if a real emergency call came in, it would take but a few seconds to switch into real emergency mode (and finish the photo shoot later). This is especially true if real paramedics were in the picture, and it was shot indoors right there at station #71. On the other hand, ambulance #71 could've been sent out for maintenance or something, and a temporary one at station #71; then while it was gone, it's driven into a rented storage unit or something for the photo shoot. No need to take the ambulance to a professional studio, and have many people unnecessarily see more than they need to know.
-
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/insideamb2.jpg)
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance3.jpg)
The perspective of those 2 pics is not the same. Look at the tensiometer for example.
It´s becoming a cubistic experience analyzing this pics..
-
I mentioned this before. What if the interior is of an air hospital/ ambo?
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTEpzj6lt0uNMiQ1E4dkJTO72oPACjmhwsadITWB--FF2dK7mGodg)
The interior of ambo #71 in the video does not look like the ambo with MJ in it.
Ether the pic is shopped or it is a different ambulance. No room for more options.
-
TS, I am now going to say that the staged photo was done in the same LAFD #71 ambulance--there were not two different ambulances.
I don't know if it was mentioned, but could the white trim simply be lighting from a different direction causing the metalic frame to reflect and appear white? Plus the photographers are standing in 2 totally different angles to the cabinet frame.
Exactly! This is where a lot of people are getting off track, with theories of multiple ambulances. They probably have not worked in photography (still and video) enough to recognize lighting and angle differences, etc. The same thing has been done in this very thread, with pictures of the ambulance at the hospital door. People see differences in the stripes or letters or yellow reflector, and they think that it's proof of different ambulances; when in reality it's merely different cameras, or different settings on the same camera, or different angles, etc.
If you watch this video again at the end, you will see that the light border turns much darker when the back door is closed {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A09tRR6ppKQ}. The two pictures with the light border and dark border are merely different lighting. The ambulance photo was taken with the back door closed. The video with the lighter border was taken through the back door, and obviously the back door was open at the time {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMB5gfcVChg}.
-
Could it be a mirror image?, I mean, the pic taken from a mirror distorting the angles?
-
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/insideamb2.jpg)
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance3.jpg)
The perspective of those 2 pics is not the same. Look at the tensiometer for example.
It´s becoming a cubistic experience analyzing this pics..
Gema, I think you might've missed that the top picture here is NOT ambulance #71; it is another ambulance that is similar, from this video {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A09tRR6ppKQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A09tRR6ppKQ)}. I included that video especially because of the discussion about the lighter border and darker border--see my last comment above.
-
Oooppppps :oops: I missed the video
-
Oooppppps :oops: I missed the video
No problem, don't worry; remember that it's all for LOVE! :)
-
Wow MsTrinity333...I just watched that video you posted.....
I don't know what to say. My first reaction was that of something that shook my thoughts on June25th itself. It was a double that really did pass away. The numerology points to a premeditated plan. However, this is Michael Jackson. The phrase meet the man you never knew is resonating within me....I'd like to meet him, I want to meet him, but will never have that chance. If we never knew him, would we recognize him standing in front of us?
Alas, poor Michael, we didn't know you at all.....let's change that, shall we??
Blessings Always
Hi Wishingstar,
Do you or anyone remember this? Wasn't Bill Bray a retired police officer? It's very possible that long hours of cop talk, one on one, convinced MJ that this was the thing to be.
It would not have taken much for that genius to find and personally mold a replacement to take his public place the last two decades as the sweet K.o.P., and concoct a big cover story, in order that he could work as an undercover agent all this time. I always thought Michael Jackson, K.o.P. was a cover for some deep European humanitarian endeavor, but I never thought American FED POLICE. :shock:
So, I say, "the man we never knew" is NOT some dead "double", whom we can never even meet, now. He is probably that same MJ on the Off the Wall , or THRILLER album covers, whom we never suspected, had stepped out a decade or two, to play hookie (sort of like in that movie, The Miracle), and sting REAL bad guys...Perhaps the FBI retired "Agent ;) M", as someone here called him, at 50, and MJ is going to go back to his first love, designing and promoting The Greatest Show On Earth---HIS!! 8-) :D
Last year, someone suggested MJ would come back having a different career than as the King of Pop, and different than the one I proposed, some kind of rainforest missionary (Well...). He would make an excellent teacher, Professor, lawyer, or logistical strategist in any field, but he's SAID his passion is film making, DRAMA, storytelling, music, magic, escape...
Man, THIS is not that much of a switch! Real police drama instead of fiction. "Back" said MJ would be back as a Black Knight. When an officer goes "under", it means they have to appear to live the life and persona of really evil people they are busting up, without actually breaking the law. It is a very draining CIRCUS tightrope walk and they are hated more than regular cops, because of this, but MJ would not be moved.
Maybe it's part of his cover story, that he's all gentle and sweet, kind to bugs and plants, when he's really a calculating, International Alpha-assassin of degenerate criminal acts!! omg, MJ...
I've changed my mind about him having a service revolver, even though it is dangerous and scary to me... "V" said, "Sometimes violence is a good thing".
This would earn him a name such as Black (stealth, under hidden cover of intelligence--like the Batman) Knight (Hero, Savior).
When we see him we are going to do this: :o 8-) :D It will be a happy day.
I won't write a book :oops: on this, just responding to Wishingstar's post, for a minute, here, in the thread where it is, 'k? :)
Yes Billy Bray was a retired cop. Here's an article. sad article..sad for Billy, but has a bad slant, of course, on Michael.
Jacko Loses Daddy No. 2
Wednesday, November 16, 2005
By Roger Friedman
Jacko Loses 'Surrogate' Father
Jacko Loses 'Surrogate' Father
Bill Bray, the retired Los Angeles Police Department officer whom Michael Jackson considered his surrogate father, died yesterday at Centinela Hospital. He was 80 years old and hadn’t seen Jackson in about 10 years.
I told you about Bray in October 2004 when I visited him in Los Angeles. He was bedridden and death-bound but somehow held on for a year. Maybe he hoped Michael or someone in the Jackson family would come see him after that piece ran. But no one did. Instead, they left him on the payroll and sent a basket of fruit and crackers.
I’m told that upon getting the news, Michael became “hysterical.” “There’s a lot of guilt there,” my source said. That’s an understatement.
Bray’s financial situation at the end of his life was dire, no matter how much money he made legitimately — or otherwise — with Jackson. Luckily, he was tended to by his longtime “wife” and friend, Gail; a plucky, sensible woman, she got him back and forth to the hospital and to doctor’s appointments on wit alone.
It was Bray who knew all of Michael’s secrets once Michael’s real father, Joe Jackson, hired him in the early '70s. He was constantly at Michael’s side on tour during the late Jackson 5 days, and he was there again through all the solo tours, too.
Gail could recall Bill literally carrying Michael in his arms to get him away from fans when he was a child performer. Later, it was Bill who formed what witnesses referred to as the “Office of Special Services,” a private security force at Neverland that was devoted to keeping Jackson out of trouble with his young guests.
But the side to Jackson that his fans don’t really understand is one marked by disloyalty and fickleness. Once Bray had been cut out of the Neverland picture by others whom Jackson came to trust, he was gone for good.
Considering the legions of stories I’d heard over the years about Bray — cunning, manipulative, protective — I was shocked when I walked into his bedroom last year. He was now a little old man, confined to a hospital bed in a tiny room. He couldn’t speak or move. His eyes followed the flicker of light from an old TV pushed up against the bed playing a John Wayne movie.
It was a sorrowful end to such a stunning saga. The llamas at Neverland were living better.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,175 ... z1GyGNAcNO (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,175709,00.html#ixzz1GyGNAcNO)
-
I have watched now that video.
I confused the ambo pic with the video posted in MJhoaxlive´s blog (Tristan´s one) which was actually ambo #71.
Question about border colours clear!
What´s next? I promise I lost track once more.
-
... But again what I don't get is, if the paramedics were in on it there would be no need to use two days. ...
Yes, two days are needed. This is because getting the ambulance photo "on the fly" on June 25, 2009 would be very difficult, even if you could get a picture through the dark window. You have to deal with very difficult lighting, and moving reflections and position of the paramedics, etc. And if everything doesn't work out just right, the ambulance is gone and you don't have time then to go back and stage the photo.
This is yet another evidence that the ambulance photo is fake. What are the chances that the paramedic's left hand did not accidentally block the face of the focal point (MJ)? In fact it almost does block the face, in that photo. And what are the chances that the reflection didn't override the focal point? But the general public does not know about these difficulties in photography, so they accept the idea that the photo was taken "on the fly" while the ambulance was driving out.
-
Wow MsTrinity333...I just watched that video you posted.....
I don't know what to say. My first reaction was that of something that shook my thoughts on June25th itself. It was a double that really did pass away. The numerology points to a premeditated plan. However, this is Michael Jackson. The phrase meet the man you never knew is resonating within me....I'd like to meet him, I want to meet him, but will never have that chance. If we never knew him, would we recognize him standing in front of us?
Alas, poor Michael, we didn't know you at all.....let's change that, shall we??
Blessings Always
Hi Wishingstar,
Do you or anyone remember this? Wasn't Bill Bray a retired police officer? It's very possible that long hours of cop talk, one on one, convinced MJ that this was the thing to be.
It would not have taken much for that genius to find and personally mold a replacement to take his public place the last two decades as the sweet K.o.P., and concoct a big cover story, in order that he could work as an undercover agent all this time. I always thought Michael Jackson, K.o.P. was a cover for some deep European humanitarian endeavor, but I never thought American FED POLICE. :shock:
So, I say, "the man we never knew" is NOT some dead "double", whom we can never even meet, now. He is probably that same MJ on the Off the Wall , or THRILLER album covers, whom we never suspected, had stepped out a decade or two, to play hookie (sort of like in that movie, The Miracle), and sting REAL bad guys...Perhaps the FBI retired "Agent ;) M", as someone here called him, at 50, and MJ is going to go back to his first love, designing and promoting The Greatest Show On Earth---HIS!! 8-) :D
Last year, someone suggested MJ would come back having a different career than as the King of Pop, and different than the one I proposed, some kind of rainforest missionary (Well...). He would make an excellent teacher, Professor, lawyer, or logistical strategist in any field, but he's SAID his passion is film making, DRAMA, storytelling, music, magic, escape...
Man, THIS is not that much of a switch! Real police drama instead of fiction. "Back" said MJ would be back as a Black Knight. When an officer goes "under", it means they have to appear to live the life and persona of really evil people they are busting up, without actually breaking the law. It is a very draining CIRCUS tightrope walk and they are hated more than regular cops, because of this, but MJ would not be moved.
Maybe it's part of his cover story, that he's all gentle and sweet, kind to bugs and plants, when he's really a calculating, International Alpha-assassin of degenerate criminal acts!! omg, MJ...
I've changed my mind about him having a service revolver, even though it is dangerous and scary to me... "V" said, "Sometimes violence is a good thing".
This would earn him a name such as Black (stealth, under hidden cover of intelligence--like the Batman) Knight (Hero, Savior).
When we see him we are going to do this: :o 8-) :D It will be a happy day.
I won't write a book :oops: on this, just responding to Wishingstar's post, for a minute, here, in the thread where it is, 'k? :)
Yes Billy Bray was a retired cop. Here's an article. sad article..sad for Billy, but has a bad slant, of course, on Michael.
Jacko Loses Daddy No. 2
Wednesday, November 16, 2005
By Roger Friedman
Jacko Loses 'Surrogate' Father
Jacko Loses 'Surrogate' Father
Bill Bray, the retired Los Angeles Police Department officer whom Michael Jackson considered his surrogate father, died yesterday at Centinela Hospital. He was 80 years old and hadn’t seen Jackson in about 10 years.
I told you about Bray in October 2004 when I visited him in Los Angeles. He was bedridden and death-bound but somehow held on for a year. Maybe he hoped Michael or someone in the Jackson family would come see him after that piece ran. But no one did. Instead, they left him on the payroll and sent a basket of fruit and crackers.
I’m told that upon getting the news, Michael became “hysterical.” “There’s a lot of guilt there,” my source said. That’s an understatement.
Bray’s financial situation at the end of his life was dire, no matter how much money he made legitimately — or otherwise — with Jackson. Luckily, he was tended to by his longtime “wife” and friend, Gail; a plucky, sensible woman, she got him back and forth to the hospital and to doctor’s appointments on wit alone.
It was Bray who knew all of Michael’s secrets once Michael’s real father, Joe Jackson, hired him in the early '70s. He was constantly at Michael’s side on tour during the late Jackson 5 days, and he was there again through all the solo tours, too.
Gail could recall Bill literally carrying Michael in his arms to get him away from fans when he was a child performer. Later, it was Bill who formed what witnesses referred to as the “Office of Special Services,” a private security force at Neverland that was devoted to keeping Jackson out of trouble with his young guests.
But the side to Jackson that his fans don’t really understand is one marked by disloyalty and fickleness. Once Bray had been cut out of the Neverland picture by others whom Jackson came to trust, he was gone for good.
Considering the legions of stories I’d heard over the years about Bray — cunning, manipulative, protective — I was shocked when I walked into his bedroom last year. He was now a little old man, confined to a hospital bed in a tiny room. He couldn’t speak or move. His eyes followed the flicker of light from an old TV pushed up against the bed playing a John Wayne movie.
It was a sorrowful end to such a stunning saga. The llamas at Neverland were living better.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,175 ... z1GyGNAcNO (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,175709,00.html#ixzz1GyGNAcNO)
Uh... :? Thank you for the article, but, er,
No one who knows anything calls MJ "Jacko", or permits such a headline over his report. Methinks this Friedman guy is a tad bent, if not all dirty---perhaps jealous of MJ. That last line is very telling. What a horrible thing to say over someone who's just lost a loved one!
Honestly, this doesn't sound like Jackson at all!! Even if MJ was around the world, unreachable at his friend's death, I can't believe he would be out of touch for a whole decade, unless Bray's doctors convinced everyone "he's not in there" anymore, as some insensitive, ignoramuses ERRONEOUSLY DO every single day in every hospital in the U.S. :cry:
Just because it is in print.... :x
-
Some have brought up the question about danger repeatedly.
You all DO realize what happened when Mj "died"- how much money they estate made since his death. Michael knew thus would happen.
Don't you think with the billions the ATV catalogue is worth Michael knew that dead artist make more money than live ones? Someone once said it was Dl is' best career move to do.
How many reports do we have about Michael saying he fears he might be killed for his catalogue? People have killed for much less money than was at stake with him.
That does not qualify as being in danger (btw- I bet the kids are still under protection now)?
Add to this the aspect of him working with the FBi on things we discussed. I bet some of he same people he informed against might be connected to who stood to gain from his death. No wonder neither Lisa Marie (who said he told her names) nor LaToya, Joe or anyone has named names. Some of this might be made to look like a game. But it is a high risk game, I think.
-
Just a thought. Seeing as Michael is seeming to follow Elvis's path..
Let's presume that Michael had, a long time ago, contacted the DEA with an idea to help, because of his addiction (if that was real) and Elizabeth's and all the others in hollyweird. Say, he was trying to get as much drugs as he "could" get, and all the doctors he could to give them to him. He let the rumors fly with the media, easy task there. There is proof of all these doctors involvement with the pharmacys. Also, the nurse. He prob. ask all over to see who'd go down. In the process, he had the prescripts all over his house where they'd be found and back up his addiction story and doctor shopping story, and all into the sting.
We note, that, in the med bottles still had pills in them. And they were not drugs to get high off!
Even a sting has a "script/plan". Michael obviously worked on that. He prob., continued to follow Elvis's plan. Working with the DEA and busting druggie docs.
It does seem plausible that Michael could've been in the amb. or drove it, or even took the 911 call and then, no medical worker would be lying or in on it. BUT, that seems quite theatrical for the FBI.
I think, that Michael got SCARED real scared back then when he was telling people he was afraid. I think he called FBI/DEA and told him that he's being kept addicted and is afraid he's going to die from them, because of the value of his catalog, and that he had THIS plan and it would take down a lot of people and also protect him. He used Elvis plan as the FBI/DEA was already using that, and it all became this.
-
He tried to tell us/warn us about it a long time ago and he did so with kick-ass righteousness:
Morphine by Michael Jackson:
He got flat baby
Kick in the back baby
A heart attack baby
I need your body
A hot kiss honey
He dug the ditch baby
You make me sick baby
So unreliable
I'm such a swine baby
All down the line daddy
I hate your kind baby
So unreliable
A hot buzz baby
He want the buzz baby
Another drug baby
You so desire
Trust in me
Trust in me
Put all your trust in me
You're doin' morphine
Hoo!
They got place baby
Kicked in the face baby
You hate your race baby
You're not relying
Your every lick baby
Your dog's a bitch baby
You make me sick baby
You soul survivor
She never cut from me
She never cut baby
I got to work baby
You just a rival
A razor blade daddy
Right up your leg daddy
You're throwing
shame daddy
So undesirable
Trust in me
Just in me
Put all your trust in me
You're doin' morphine
Go'on babe
Relax
This won't hurt you
Before I put it in
Close your eyes and
count to ten
Don't cry
I won't convert you
There's no need to dismay
Close your eyes
and drift away
Demerol
Demerol
Oh God he's taking demerol
Demerol
Demerol
Oh God he's taking demerol
He's tried
Hard to convince her
To give more of what he had
Today he wants it
twice as bad
Don't cry
I won't resent you
Yesterday you
had distrust
Today he's taking
twice as much
Demerol
Demerol
Oh God he's taking demerol
Hee-hee-hee
Demerol
Demerol
Oh my Oh God it's Demerol
Hee
Oooh
Oh!
He got shit baby
Your dog's a bitch baby
You make me sick baby
You are a liar
Is truth a game daddy
To win the fame baby
You're all the same baby
You're so reliable
Trust in me
Trust in me
Put all your trust in me
She's doin' morphine
Hoo!
You just sit
around just
talkin' nothing
You're takin' morphine
Hoo!
Go'on baby
You just sit
around just
talking about it
You're takin' morphine
Hoo-hoo!
Just sit around
just talking
nothing about it
You're takin' morphine
You just sit
around just
talking about it
You're taking morphine
You just sit
around just
talkin' nothin'
And takin' morphine
Hoo-hoo-hoo
Something's going down baby
You're talkin' Morphine
Go'on baby!
Hoo!
Hoo!
Morphine!
Do it!
Hoo!
He's takin' morphine
Morphine!
Morphine!
-
Wow MsTrinity333...I just watched that video you posted.....
I don't know what to say. My first reaction was that of something that shook my thoughts on June25th itself. It was a double that really did pass away. The numerology points to a premeditated plan. However, this is Michael Jackson. The phrase meet the man you never knew is resonating within me....I'd like to meet him, I want to meet him, but will never have that chance. If we never knew him, would we recognize him standing in front of us?
Alas, poor Michael, we didn't know you at all.....let's change that, shall we??
Blessings Always
Hi Wishingstar,
Do you or anyone remember this? Wasn't Bill Bray a retired police officer? It's very possible that long hours of cop talk, one on one, convinced MJ that this was the thing to be.
It would not have taken much for that genius to find and personally mold a replacement to take his public place the last two decades as the sweet K.o.P., and concoct a big cover story, in order that he could work as an undercover agent all this time. I always thought Michael Jackson, K.o.P. was a cover for some deep European humanitarian endeavor, but I never thought American FED POLICE. :shock:
So, I say, "the man we never knew" is NOT some dead "double", whom we can never even meet, now. He is probably that same MJ on the Off the Wall , or THRILLER album covers, whom we never suspected, had stepped out a decade or two, to play hookie (sort of like in that movie, The Miracle), and sting REAL bad guys...Perhaps the FBI retired "Agent ;) M", as someone here called him, at 50, and MJ is going to go back to his first love, designing and promoting The Greatest Show On Earth---HIS!! 8-) :D
Last year, someone suggested MJ would come back having a different career than as the King of Pop, and different than the one I proposed, some kind of rainforest missionary (Well...). He would make an excellent teacher, Professor, lawyer, or logistical strategist in any field, but he's SAID his passion is film making, DRAMA, storytelling, music, magic, escape...
Man, THIS is not that much of a switch! Real police drama instead of fiction. "Back" said MJ would be back as a Black Knight. When an officer goes "under", it means they have to appear to live the life and persona of really evil people they are busting up, without actually breaking the law. It is a very draining CIRCUS tightrope walk and they are hated more than regular cops, because of this, but MJ would not be moved.
Maybe it's part of his cover story, that he's all gentle and sweet, kind to bugs and plants, when he's really a calculating, International Alpha-assassin of degenerate criminal acts!! omg, MJ...
I've changed my mind about him having a service revolver, even though it is dangerous and scary to me... "V" said, "Sometimes violence is a good thing".
This would earn him a name such as Black (stealth, under hidden cover of intelligence--like the Batman) Knight (Hero, Savior).
When we see him we are going to do this: :o 8-) :D It will be a happy day.
I won't write a book :oops: on this, just responding to Wishingstar's post, for a minute, here, in the thread where it is, 'k? :)
Yes Billy Bray was a retired cop. Here's an article. sad article..sad for Billy, but has a bad slant, of course, on Michael.
Jacko Loses Daddy No. 2
Wednesday, November 16, 2005
By Roger Friedman
Jacko Loses 'Surrogate' Father
Jacko Loses 'Surrogate' Father
Bill Bray, the retired Los Angeles Police Department officer whom Michael Jackson considered his surrogate father, died yesterday at Centinela Hospital. He was 80 years old and hadn’t seen Jackson in about 10 years.
I told you about Bray in October 2004 when I visited him in Los Angeles. He was bedridden and death-bound but somehow held on for a year. Maybe he hoped Michael or someone in the Jackson family would come see him after that piece ran. But no one did. Instead, they left him on the payroll and sent a basket of fruit and crackers.
I’m told that upon getting the news, Michael became “hysterical.” “There’s a lot of guilt there,” my source said. That’s an understatement.
Bray’s financial situation at the end of his life was dire, no matter how much money he made legitimately — or otherwise — with Jackson. Luckily, he was tended to by his longtime “wife” and friend, Gail; a plucky, sensible woman, she got him back and forth to the hospital and to doctor’s appointments on wit alone.
It was Bray who knew all of Michael’s secrets once Michael’s real father, Joe Jackson, hired him in the early '70s. He was constantly at Michael’s side on tour during the late Jackson 5 days, and he was there again through all the solo tours, too.
Gail could recall Bill literally carrying Michael in his arms to get him away from fans when he was a child performer. Later, it was Bill who formed what witnesses referred to as the “Office of Special Services,” a private security force at Neverland that was devoted to keeping Jackson out of trouble with his young guests.
But the side to Jackson that his fans don’t really understand is one marked by disloyalty and fickleness. Once Bray had been cut out of the Neverland picture by others whom Jackson came to trust, he was gone for good.
Considering the legions of stories I’d heard over the years about Bray — cunning, manipulative, protective — I was shocked when I walked into his bedroom last year. He was now a little old man, confined to a hospital bed in a tiny room. He couldn’t speak or move. His eyes followed the flicker of light from an old TV pushed up against the bed playing a John Wayne movie.
It was a sorrowful end to such a stunning saga. The llamas at Neverland were living better.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,175 ... z1GyGNAcNO (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,175709,00.html#ixzz1GyGNAcNO)
Uh... :? Thank you for the article, but, er,
No one who knows anything calls MJ "Jacko", or permits such a headline over his report. Methinks this Friedman guy is a tad bent, if not all dirty---perhaps jealous of MJ. That last line is very telling. What a horrible thing to say over someone who's just lost a loved one!
Honestly, this doesn't sound like Jackson at all!! Even if MJ was around the world, unreachable at his friend's death, I can't believe he would be out of touch for a whole decade, unless Bray's doctors convinced everyone "he's not in there" anymore, as some insensitive, ignoramuses ERRONEOUSLY DO every single day in every hospital in the U.S. :cry:
Well, like I wrote, the writer really SLANTS the story. I AM WITH YOU ON THAT and meant to express that. I was putting on the article to show that, yes, Bill is a retired cop. The rest I included to show that yet again, the media took any article to make Michael look awful. Thus my saying they SLANTED the story.
Just because it is in print.... :x
-
Sorry, found something else that is weird...
In the ambulance pic we see that the leg of the paramedic at the head is next to the stretcher and that Mike's head is centered between his legs. But if you look at the video, you can see they roll the stretcher into those metal things, so that it won't move during transportation. But if you look at the position of the seat compared to the position of where the stretcher will be, you see that there is no way that the paramedic could have his leg there, unless he has go-go-gadget legs.
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/insideamb2.jpg)
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance3.jpg)
I also checked the position of the seat in the video that shows the inside of ambulance #71, and same story. It's not that they put the stretcher more to the left side of the ambulance. Firstly because that's pretty dangerous, and secondly because in that case there would be no room for the EMT standing in the pic. So my new conclusion is: the ambulance picture wasn't taken in an ambulance at all. It's either a set with the interior of the ambulance copied, or the interior of the ambulance was shopped into the picture.
But either way, they did not use ambulance #71 for that ambulance picture.
Edit:
@TS, why would they use an ambulance that could be used for real emergencies twice, if it's not necessary?
First of all, even under normal operations, the seat is there for the purpose of a paramedic to sit in it--and work with a patient on the stretcher, at least sometimes. Therefore, where would the legs of the paramedic go under normal operations, when he is working with a patient on the stretcher?
Second, the seat has a ridge on the right an left side of it; and in the ambulance photo, you can see that the paramedic sitting on the left ridge (left from his own perspective)--he is not sitting in the middle of the seat. This is no doubt to give his left leg room to fit around the stretcher. Furthermore, he is probably rotated a little counterclockwise (from a top view), which would also help accommodate his left leg; but this rotation is not very noticeable in the picture, because the camera is shooting at an angle (as well as the fact that the top half of his body is rotated left, towards the monitor screen).
Third, why would they go to all the time and money and risk of more people finding out, just to create a set that looks identical to ambulance #71--when they have a real ambulance readily available?
Fourth, your question about using an ambulance that could be used for real emergencies. Obviously, the ambulance with #71 on it at Carolwood was a real drivable ambulance--not merely a stationary set, in some studio. As far as staging the ambulance photo on "the other d ... [ay]"--if a real emergency call came in, it would take but a few seconds to switch into real emergency mode (and finish the photo shoot later). This is especially true if real paramedics were in the picture, and it was shot indoors right there at station #71. On the other hand, ambulance #71 could've been sent out for maintenance or something, and a temporary one at station #71; then while it was gone, it's driven into a rented storage unit or something for the photo shoot. No need to take the ambulance to a professional studio, and have many people unnecessarily see more than they need to know.
Please remember to use common sense, in addition to forensic investigation and raw data analysis. For example: if the ambulance photo was staged before 6-25-09, why bother bringing the ambulance to Carolwood Drive—just to take a photo of things inside the ambulance? Why not stage the photo elsewhere, and indoors, where there would be a very low risk of the wrong people seeing what is going on? Also keep in mind the goals of the hoax; common sense should tell us that the only ones in on the hoax are those who need to know about it, in order to accomplish the goals. Why would MJ spend tons of money—and greatly increase the risk of someone letting the cat out of the bag too soon—just to have dozens or hundreds of people in on the hoax, who don’t need to be in on it?
Finally, just like last time, I may play “DA” (devil's advocate)—and try to debunk things that are true, just to keep you on your toes! Enjoy the ride!!
Talk about contradictions. You said on the first page of this thread Why not stage the picture somewhere else and indoors. Then you say Why would they ( who is they?) go to all the time, money, risk of having a set...Which I agree it wasn't a set as Souza suggested but then you go on to say that ambulance #71 may have been sent out for maintenance then drove to a storage unit or SOMETHING.
Like maybe The Dome Project? I am not saying a professional studio for taking pictures only. In your first comment you suggest that Michael has spent tons of money. So staging the picture inside is plausable and on a set like in Culver Studios. I understand your response to the leg positioning of the paramedic. Also common sense should tell me that the only people who need to know are the ones who are needed to accomplish the goal. So following that logic the Fire Captain needs to know but the real paramedics who responded on 6/25/2009 didn't need to know anything about the "other day". They don't even have to know about the fake death. There is still the testimony of the paramedics saying it was a person looking like a hospice patient. 8-)
I don't know for sure who the paramedics are in the fake picture. Could be actors dressed in costume like real paramedics. I am doubtful they were the FBI but since Elvis had an agent undercover in his band it could be possible MJ did the same but he wasn't touring when this picture was taken. So having the FBI pose in the fake picture doesn't seem right because who are they (FBI) gonna do a sting on at that moment when the staged/fake pic was done? Using the FBI in the fake pic doesn't give much information to use later to arrest someones....
TS, I am now going to say that the staged photo was done in the same LAFD #71 ambulance--there were not two different ambulances.
I don't know if it was mentioned, but could the white trim simply be lighting from a different direction causing the metalic frame to reflect and appear white? Plus the photographers are standing in 2 totally different angles to the cabinet frame.
Exactly! This is where a lot of people are getting off track, with theories of multiple ambulances. They probably have not worked in photography (still and video) enough to recognize lighting and angle differences, etc. The same thing has been done in this very thread, with pictures of the ambulance at the hospital door. People see differences in the stripes or letters or yellow reflector, and they think that it's proof of different ambulances; when in reality it's merely different cameras, or different settings on the same camera, or different angles, etc.
If you watch this video again at the end, you will see that the light border turns much darker when the back door is closed {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A09tRR6ppKQ}. The two pictures with the light border and dark border are merely different lighting. The ambulance photo was taken with the back door closed. The video with the lighter border was taken through the back door, and obviously the back door was open at the time {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMB5gfcVChg}.
Yep that explains the border color. The video was to show that about the pictures but it doesn't prove that the fake picture of MJ was staged inside the real ambulance #71.... But again what I don't get is, if the paramedics were in on it there would be no need to use two days. ...
Yes, two days are needed. This is because getting the ambulance photo "on the fly" on June 25, 2009 would be very difficult, even if you could get a picture through the dark window. You have to deal with very difficult lighting, and moving reflections and position of the paramedics, etc. And if everything doesn't work out just right, the ambulance is gone and you don't have time then to go back and stage the photo.
This is yet another evidence that the ambulance photo is fake. What are the chances that the paramedic's left hand did not accidentally block the face of the focal point (MJ)? In fact it almost does block the face, in that photo. And what are the chances that the reflection didn't override the focal point? But the general public does not know about these difficulties in photography, so they accept the idea that the photo was taken "on the fly" while the ambulance was driving out.
Im_convincedmjalive wrote:
I am throwing this idea out there regarding the picture of the ambulance and whether the red car, yellow shirt guy, red shirt guy, etc. would reflect off the window. I wonder IF the pics needed for the layers over the original dummy pic were even taken on that day?
What IF the day of death the paps only PRETENDED to take pics and they had all the pics they needed from the other day? They already Photoshopped what they needed for the sale to E.T. Practice makes perfect and in a real life situation there isn't much time for practice but in a dry run "the other day" there is lots of time to make the pics they wanted. They being Michael and the paps he has the agreement with.
Things that make me say Hmmm?
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310373#p310373 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310373#p310373)
Yea I had wrote something very close to what you just said in the TIAI 2/26 thread.
Peace
-
A lot of answers lately from TS :? All well reasoned, as usual.
FBI and LAFD in the hoax, #71 real ambulance used, photo staged the other day.....
I don't know if the paramedics were the real ones or FBI agents and I think it doesn't really matter, but what I don't see now is the reason for actually using a dead body....just for safety, in case someone would have got a glimpse of the inside of the ambulance that day?
-
With so much learning and disecting for almost 2 years, in case something drastic happens (seeing how the world news are developing) we are ready to handle an emergency situation.
From how and where to perform cpr to knowing the parts of an ambulance.
Next should be about botanics and survival methods.
-
With so much learning and disecting for almost 2 years, in case something drastic happens (seeing how the world news are developing) we are ready to handle an emergency situation.
From how and where to perform cpr to knowing the parts of an ambulance.
Next should be about botanics and survival methods.
We deserve a front row seat when MJ returns. I wish you could see my computer chair, it loosed the leather having my butt here for almost 2 years. :lol: But in the end...it was all for LOVE!
-
So were we're at TS? Have all the questions been answered?
-
TS, just a question. I am still cracking my head over this, but since I think this hoax was planned like 20 years ago, I was wondering where the FBI came in. I do think he has been involved with the FBI for a long time already, because it could explain to me some choices he made in the past that seemed a little strange. But if he was involved in a sting operation, it would explain some stuff.
This FBI thing is so interesting, but it is grasping at straws. When did they become involved, who is/are the target(s), when did they wrap it up, or haven't they yet? I have many many many many questions at the moment. It also makes me wonder if Evan Chandler is in the WPP, I always thought it was too much of a coincidence he died on November 5th. Although he's a piece of shit, he most likely only was a puppet for the puppeteers, so he might have given information to catch the bigger fish.
"This story has not ended, things are still unfolding." {http://twitter.com/randyjackson8/status/5113057529298944}.
That makes sense, since we haven't heard of big busts yet. Can you say if this is an operation that started way before June 25? Because I think there are way too many targets to get this all done in only 2 years.
-
With so much learning and disecting for almost 2 years, in case something drastic happens (seeing how the world news are developing) we are ready to handle an emergency situation.
From how and where to perform cpr to knowing the parts of an ambulance.
Next should be about botanics and survival methods.
We deserve a front row seat when MJ returns. I wish you could see my computer chair, it loosed the leather having my butt here for almost 2 years. :lol: But in the end...it was all for LOVE!
Your pc chair?, I wish you could see my butt :lol:
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS4j1FT1rjhrVVcwzlAm7nCORXdrD_ULKm-I1u02vNGiobqC2Br)
-
Sorry, found something else that is weird...
In the ambulance pic we see that the leg of the paramedic at the head is next to the stretcher and that Mike's head is centered between his legs. But if you look at the video, you can see they roll the stretcher into those metal things, so that it won't move during transportation. But if you look at the position of the seat compared to the position of where the stretcher will be, you see that there is no way that the paramedic could have his leg there, unless he has go-go-gadget legs.
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/insideamb2.jpg)
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance3.jpg)
I also checked the position of the seat in the video that shows the inside of ambulance #71, and same story. It's not that they put the stretcher more to the left side of the ambulance. Firstly because that's pretty dangerous, and secondly because in that case there would be no room for the EMT standing in the pic. So my new conclusion is: the ambulance picture wasn't taken in an ambulance at all. It's either a set with the interior of the ambulance copied, or the interior of the ambulance was shopped into the picture.
But either way, they did not use ambulance #71 for that ambulance picture.
Edit:
@TS, why would they use an ambulance that could be used for real emergencies twice, if it's not necessary?
First of all, even under normal operations, the seat is there for the purpose of a paramedic to sit in it--and work with a patient on the stretcher, at least sometimes. Therefore, where would the legs of the paramedic go under normal operations, when he is working with a patient on the stretcher?
Second, the seat has a ridge on the right an left side of it; and in the ambulance photo, you can see that the paramedic sitting on the left ridge (left from his own perspective)--he is not sitting in the middle of the seat. This is no doubt to give his left leg room to fit around the stretcher. Furthermore, he is probably rotated a little counterclockwise (from a top view), which would also help accommodate his left leg; but this rotation is not very noticeable in the picture, because the camera is shooting at an angle (as well as the fact that the top half of his body is rotated left, towards the monitor screen).
Third, why would they go to all the time and money and risk of more people finding out, just to create a set that looks identical to ambulance #71--when they have a real ambulance readily available?
Fourth, your question about using an ambulance that could be used for real emergencies. Obviously, the ambulance with #71 on it at Carolwood was a real drivable ambulance--not merely a stationary set, in some studio. As far as staging the ambulance photo on "the other d ... [ay]"--if a real emergency call came in, it would take but a few seconds to switch into real emergency mode (and finish the photo shoot later). This is especially true if real paramedics were in the picture, and it was shot indoors right there at station #71. On the other hand, ambulance #71 could've been sent out for maintenance or something, and a temporary one at station #71; then while it was gone, it's driven into a rented storage unit or something for the photo shoot. No need to take the ambulance to a professional studio, and have many people unnecessarily see more than they need to know.
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s114/pidge02/grumpy.jpg)
Okay Einstein, I again have to admit that you're right... I didn't think about the possibility to take the pic at the firestation. But still, what is the third paramedic doing there?
So I think we established that the most plausible theory is that it was ambulance #71 on both occasions, although the pic is still shopped (and I'm still very curious about the leaves), and that the paramedics are real paramedics. Of course they are in on the hoax, because the pic was staged. That is something we can say without any doubts.
Is there more?
-
Just thought of something in relation to your comment about the picture possibly taken at the firestation... Could the alleged hit-and-run with the ambulance back in April 2009 have something to do with it? It would not have been strange him going to the firestation afterwards to deal with the damage. Just a thought...
Off topic, but this song just played on the radio. I have always loved it, no clue if it ever went beyond the Dutch borders though. I noticed the lyrics fit perfectly into this journey. Why do we pray? We want to know so desperately but we don't know, we have no certainties but we have to keep hope alive and keep believing. Just wanted to share the song and the fantastic and spontaneous 80's choreography :lol:
[youtube:mlsa8dlf]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTBUGSQg08A[/youtube:mlsa8dlf]
When I was young I felt the need of learning, learning
Love I was told kept the wheel on turning, turning
Still I'm trying to find, peace of mine inside
For once in your life you feel the urge of knowing, knowing
and wondering Why
Come on people, better use our sense, our time is running out
there ain't no doubt about
We can make it, try to rearrange it if there's a price we got
to toss the dice
Oooh, won't you tell me what's right
Ooh Yeah, won't you tell me what's wrong
Ooh won't you tell me what's right. Somebody tell me now
Believe in Destiny, Believe in Humanity, Believe in we'll meet again
Somehow, Somewhere, Someday.
Why tell me, Why, tell me why, tell me why do I pray
I need to know right now oooh.
Why tell me, Why, tell me why, tell me why do I pray
I hope that freedom soon will come our way
Why tell me, Why
Come on people, lent a helpin' hand, no need to fuss
and fight we all know where we stand
Help me make it, try to rearrange it
Name your price and I will toss the dice
Oooh, won't you tell me what's right
Ooh Yeah, won't you tell me what's wrong
Ooh won't you tell me what's right. Somebody tell me now
Believe in Destiny, Believe in Humanity, Believe in we'll meet again
-
Souza, I guess we have to wait and see. Ts did a wonderful job, but even if we did find the real clue, as of why Michael had to hoax his death, we will not know for sure until we hear it from the horses mouth, and that will be Michael.
-
1Cor13:12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am known.
13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
It's all gonna come out as Jermaine said. Of this I have the utmost belief.
-
Yes, two days are needed. This is because getting the ambulance photo "on the fly" on June 25, 2009 would be very difficult, even if you could get a picture through the dark window. You have to deal with very difficult lighting, and moving reflections and position of the paramedics, etc. And if everything doesn't work out just right, the ambulance is gone and you don't have time then to go back and stage the photo.
Michael had to use a fake ambulance to make fake photos because you could never know if someone (who has an agreement like Ben or some random people who were there) can take a nice shot of inside of the ambulance when the ambulance is moving. The scene needed to look real on 6-25 and there had to be witnesses that an ambulance was there on that day. And the ambulance was slow, without the sirens but still it couldn't stop and wait there for people to get nice shots through tinted windows.
I was wrong about different ambulances. The ambulance is the same and it was used in two different days. As long as LAFD #71 was with the FBI, the paramedics could be the real paramedics. The question is, a dead body or a mannequin was used on the 25th? And why was the room kept warm in the middle of summer if there was no dead body used? As long as the paramedics know about the hoax there is no reason to use a dead body. A mannequin would give the illusion of a real body. So why was the room kept warm? That confused me.
-
With so much learning and disecting for almost 2 years, in case something drastic happens (seeing how the world news are developing) we are ready to handle an emergency situation.
From how and where to perform cpr to knowing the parts of an ambulance.
Next should be about botanics and survival methods.
We deserve a front row seat when MJ returns. I wish you could see my computer chair, it loosed the leather having my butt here for almost 2 years. :lol: But in the end...it was all for LOVE!
Your pc chair?, I wish you could see my butt :lol:
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS4j1FT1rjhrVVcwzlAm7nCORXdrD_ULKm-I1u02vNGiobqC2Br)
:lol: :lol: :lol:
-
Souza wrote:
So I think we established that the most plausible theory is that it was ambulance #71 on both occasions
How was it established? By TS saying it? I haven't seen hard evidence to convince me that the fake picture was taken inside the real ambulance #71. I see a fake picture taken inside an ambulance with two men (one of whom has ashy elbows) ;) and I've seen the real ambulance #71 on "the day of death" in video 3 different ways. One from Hollywood T.V. The tour bus footage and Tristan's which shows the inside also. That still doesn't prove that the fake pic was taken inside ambulance #71.
That video footage TS provided for us was to come to the conclusion of how the cabinet colors changed because of lighting but that still doesn't prove the same ambulance was used on That day and um the other day...I swear that line has become a household catch phrase. Right on Ben! ;) 8-)
Am I just supposed to take TS at his word? I know full well there might not be any evidence to show me that the fake pic was done inside the real ambulance but it doesn't mean I am just gonna go with what TS said IF I want better proof or a better arguement to convince me. Solid evidence is what this game was about. Solid theories. Not believing any ole thing thrown at us. 8-)
TS could still be in D.A. :twisted: challenge mode. I wouldn't be so quick to let down the guards. I am not trying to be difficult and I am not being unreasonable to ask for better than what I have seen.
I have agreed with the majority of what TS said in his last post regarding FBI. I do know he is not above throwing in contradictions in his words. He did it all through out his updates. ;)
Souza wrote:
Of course they are in on the hoax, because the pic was staged. That is something we can say without any doubts.
Not me I have doubts.
-
Well here I go again. I did a post the other day involving numbers: Since TS wanted us to also look at the numbers..... I started playing around with numbers
Hi Guys I just took a look at TS posting time/date: March 17, 2011 at 12:17 the day 3+1+7=11 the year 2011 (11), the time 1+2+1+7=11. 11/11/11 is Veteran's Day in the U.S. (also Rememberance Day in AU and CAN, Armistice Day in FR).
AND:
Postby sandythyme » Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:10 pm
Hi me again....also:
by TS » Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:30 am
TIAI Revealed, Part 9: Today is 12-21-2009 (R49)
In this final part, we are going to be examining once again the “2012” film—especially as it relates to the concept of the end of the world on 12-21-2012, which is exactly three years from today. The “2012” movie story starts in the year 2009, and ends in 2012.
The “four years” that MJ mentioned in TII started in the spring of 2009 (when the “This Is It” concerts were in the planning stages); so we have already gone through the first year. You could also think of the four years as ending on 9-9-09, 10-10-10, 11-11-11, and 12-12-12 (ten day countdown to 12-21-12). Of course these are a little more than a year apart; but they are interesting numerology milestones in the four year process.
so:
This Is It 111 Minutes long
April 21, 2011 111th day of the year ( 7+7+7=21)
Tabloid Junkie mentioned in TS Update 5C(Do you think for yourself), Metronome set at 111 beats per minute.
11/1-1/11 or (11/1) (1/11)
From here I took a look at the FBI files (333Pages), I looked at page 111. Letters indicating frustration and names mentioned: John Gotti and Michael Jackson. I am being brief because I probably already made everyone bored to tears. Taking things a bit further:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambino_crime_family (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambino_crime_family) please read this if you have a chance. Drug trafficing, child porn.
http://www.parkertaylor.com.au/news/pri ... .asp?id=42 (http://www.parkertaylor.com.au/news/private-eyes-secrets.asp?id=42) Interesting read about Anthony Pellicano
We talked about sting operations and entrapment today. Michael could have helped the FBI in so many ways with the drug issues - cracking down on "Dr. Feelgood's" and also helping with child trafficing (porn). There could have been a mutual agreement of cooperation between the FBI and Michael. He could assist them and he could continue "under the table" to work on his career. This Is It, movie, DVD, Michael, the experience, Cir. Sol., everything. Continue to work and also assist while hidden. I am also very curious about the Cascio Family, Mr. Chandler and why Michael spent so much time in New Jersey. I know he spent so much of his time with his beloved second family. But all of this is making my head spin. I just wanted to share some thoughts. Take care
-
Sandythyme, there has actually been a huge illegal child pornography ring, that recently has been made public here in Australia, and around the world, and it was on our news !!
My computer chair is actually glued to my butt, so I don't miss anything !! :lol: :lol:
This is the real footage of inside the ambulance as it was leaving, and you can clearly see a paramedic standing up and moving around.....but the picture of the ambulance backing out, has one sitting, and you cant really make out a stretcher....or a patient !
I recall reading there was a small fire in carolwood dve that day.the 25th June 2009.
This video has been slowed down alot, but you get the idea that it would be impossible to film through a tinted window and a moving ambulance.....
All you see is the reflection of the guy in red..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o-yZt7y ... r_embedded
[youtube:2wv953oi]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o-yZt7y ... r_embedded[/youtube:2wv953oi]
-
Souza wrote:
So I think we established that the most plausible theory is that it was ambulance #71 on both occasions
How was it established? By TS saying it? I haven't seen hard evidence to convince me that the fake picture was taken inside the real ambulance #71. I see a fake picture taken inside an ambulance with two men (one of whom has ashy elbows) ;) and I've seen the real ambulance #71 on "the day of death" in video 3 different ways. One from Hollywood T.V. The tour bus footage and Tristan's which shows the inside also. That still doesn't prove that the fake pic was taken inside ambulance #71.
That video footage TS provided for us was to come to the conclusion of how the cabinet colors changed because of lighting but that still doesn't prove the same ambulance was used on That day and um the other day...I swear that line has become a household catch phrase. Right on Ben! ;) 8-)
Am I just supposed to take TS at his word? I know full well there might not be any evidence to show me that the fake pic was done inside the real ambulance but it doesn't mean I am just gonna go with what TS said IF I want better proof or a better arguement to convince me. Solid evidence is what this game was about. Solid theories. Not believing any ole thing thrown at us. 8-)
TS could still be in D.A. :twisted: challenge mode. I wouldn't be so quick to let down the guards. I am not trying to be difficult and I am not being unreasonable to ask for better than what I have seen.
I have agreed with the majority of what TS said in his last post regarding FBI. I do know he is not above throwing in contradictions in his words. He did it all through out his updates. ;)
Souza wrote:
Of course they are in on the hoax, because the pic was staged. That is something we can say without any doubts.
Not me I have doubts.
No, not because TS is saying it, but because I ran out of excuses and he made more sense. There is no proof that it is a different ambulance, that's my point. So the most plausible THEORY would be, if you look at TS' explanation of why it would make sense that it's the same, is that it indeed is the same. The other theory being that the ambulance on the picture was a set. And that seems to be a little complex when you can use the real thing.
The leaf pattern is shopped in, so that has nothing to do with the interior of the ambulance. I was wrong about the position of the EMT at the head, because if I look at the angle it would indeed be possible to get a shot like that, and the white border can indeed be explained by the lighting, although I find the contrast a little too big, but I can't say for sure wheter or not that is possible. The only thing that still looks fishy to me is the blood pressure thing, which looks like a sticker in the pics, but that could be an optical illusion.
So I am not saying it IS the same ambulance, I am merely saying that it makes the most sense, unless someone can shine some new light over this. Do you get what I mean? I can't see anything on that picture anymore, I have looked at it for too long.
-
The more we look into the picture to find something nothing comes up. As soon as you give up there is something that will pop. What I am trying to say is maybe we should rest a little, and go back another day, so we can have a different perspective. I am trying to find other clues but I feel I am going conked eyed. :lol:
-
Thanks 2good2btrue. I was unaware of this. So I just read some of the articles. Thanks for the info, I appreciate it. Take care :P
P.S. I have been sitting here in front of this computer for 20 months plus now and the spring broke in my chair. I have to put books on the chair to be at the correct level to type.....AND I lost 65 pounds. It had to break now!!
-
Ooops...the video I posted didn't work....I'll try again..Here it is, in slow motion...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o-yZt7y ... r_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o-yZt7yERk&feature=player_embedded)
[youtube:1e2a8099]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o-yZt7yERk&feature=player_embedded[/youtube:1e2a8099]
-
... But again what I don't get is, if the paramedics were in on it there would be no need to use two days. ...
Yes, two days are needed. This is because getting the ambulance photo "on the fly" on June 25, 2009 would be very difficult, even if you could get a picture through the dark window. You have to deal with very difficult lighting, and moving reflections and position of the paramedics, etc. And if everything doesn't work out just right, the ambulance is gone and you don't have time then to go back and stage the photo.
This is yet another evidence that the ambulance photo is fake. What are the chances that the paramedic's left hand did not accidentally block the face of the focal point (MJ)? In fact it almost does block the face, in that photo. And what are the chances that the reflection didn't override the focal point? But the general public does not know about these difficulties in photography, so they accept the idea that the photo was taken "on the fly" while the ambulance was driving out.
Sorry I am still a bit confused.
So there are two days needed...but if the paramedics were in the hoax (even if the photographer would need to get a better shot) then it wouldn't matter because they can just use the photo taken the other day. But if they weren't in on the hoax they would figure out that the patient they treated in Carolwood doesn't look like the patient in the ambulance photo.
-
In thinking about the ambulance and how the "scene" was created, I'm reminded of a TS redirect. I do not mean to minimize, but for me, this is all I need to understand about the 'hows' of Project Ambo:
"...he stepped into an illusion and before your eyes went up in smoke and then suddenly appeared completely on the other side of the stage rising up on the cherry picker and out over to the audience for 'Beat It.' "
-
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/insideamb2.jpg)
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance3.jpg)
The perspective of those 2 pics is not the same. Look at the tensiometer for example.
It´s becoming a cubistic experience analyzing this pics..
I love that term, "cubistic experience" :) When I teach kids about Picasso, I tell them he, "he saw things a little different". They all get it from that point on....it's like I turn light on. People see things differently all the time, and that's OK....even great. My eyes keep trying to play that Magic Eye stuff....where you actually un-focus your eyes in order to see the picture within. I love that.....even though it's bad for your eyes...if you do it a lot.
One thing about this picture I have noticed....the talk of a car. I think some have asked if there really was a car...I think not. The tip of the stretcher is under the paramedic's knee....there is red under (the gurney maybe?) and red on top of his knee/leg.....the photographer's shirt (?) I feel there is something so obvious we should catch it....but what is it? I see other pictures, there is a car....what's up??? I am going back to square one.......
Anyways Gema...great phrase :) this hoax is very "cubistic" indeed!
Blessings Always!
-
TS could still be in D.A. :twisted: challenge mode. I wouldn't be so quick to let down the guards. I am not trying to be difficult and I am not being unreasonable to ask for better than what I have seen.
If TS is the DA challenge mode - well he's doing a very good job finding convincing arguments for a fake theory. His answers are well documented and always following a logical path, taking the story as a whole - like when we make a puzzle, everything has to fit in.
If he did such a great job in defending a challenging theory only, I wonder what the real theory argumentation is going to look like.
At this point I can believe that if we have a hoax, then FBI is involved, LAFD is in the know, paramedics have to be in and I don't bother too much about the pic, if it was taken in the real ambulance or not because, with the previous established, I don't think it matters very much, but the logical answer in this context is they used the real ambulance because why bother find another ambulance if the whole scenario was already made and LAFD was in anyway?
-
Just thought of something in relation to your comment about the picture possibly taken at the firestation... Could the alleged hit-and-run with the ambulance back in April 2009 have something to do with it? It would not have been strange him going to the firestation afterwards to deal with the damage. Just a thought...
The ambulance allegedly hit by MJ's SUV in April is a white one and it looked like this:
[attachment=1:2ao9j2yr]EMT Takes Photos After Crash_01_500.jpg[/attachment:2ao9j2yr]
[attachment=0:2ao9j2yr]EMT Takes Photos After Crash_05_500.jpg[/attachment:2ao9j2yr]
(requiring the SUV's mirror having been at exactly the same height)
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/April_22_2009_EMT_Takes_Photos_After_Crash.html
http://www.zimbio.com/Jamin+Mauro/articles/3/MICHAEL+JACKSON+HIT+AND+RUN
http://www.tmz.com/2009/04/23/emt-driver-claims-injuries-from-jacko-hit-and-run/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/23/michael-jacksons-driver-i_n_190662.html
These news were distributed to several gossip media.
Allegedly the accident happened close to Cedars-Sinai Medical Center.
Other sources claim Roxbury Medical Center north of Wilshire Blvd to be the correct address.
Both locations see quite a bit of distance between them.
It's none of both medical centers actually.
The red brick wall on the pictures does fit to to the building of Joubert Physical Therapy, N Bedford Dr, back exit being located between Brighton Way and St Monica Blvd.
EMT Jamin Mauro stated one time that nothing happened except damage of the mirror, next time he was having lunch inside of the car at that moment (what a kind of hygiene BS) and he and his colleague got hit on their head and elbows. (I try really hard to imagine how they were having lunch to be hit like that if it was only damaging the mirror.)
TMZ gallery shows some scratches on the ambulance's side, too. However, this is not even the vehicle type of ambulance 71. This ambulance is of the coroner van type.
Allegedly the SUV was followed by paps - but in a narrow street like this one cannot be speedy at all. So - not paying attention is a more likely reason for the accident. But the accident could have happened on purpose as well.
This may be a planted story, maybe to draw attention to
* an ambulance
* an accident
* a damaged mirror
* EMTs.
Is there any relation of this story to a hospital at all?
Mirrors - MPD - curtain - Greenbaum speech.
Any dots in here? Any meaning of O2 speech that we did miss to date?
Did O2 then have more of a character of a fight declaration (the fist) than an announcement of a tour? This would completely contradict any secret operation, there were more than 3 months still to go.
-
I have been checking ambo interiors and ambo types ( small, big, kids units, van units, fire, police...etc)
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSS6H6etxXEW2hzNCsPfD9cSL8Z95WSKb2qQDPNgljWmmSBCFeo)
There is another ambo involved in MJ´s "death", the day "at the airport":
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSI2vUBffMlg7WjmpV0TzZQSOaA8HwEyifDpLwLPWJwpOc0ScqHYg)
This is a van ambulance (coroner´s is called?)
We don´t know where the pic of MJ in the ambo was taken. Could be inside ambo #71 or in another ambo, even in a studio decorated as the interior o an ambulance, his home or all is a photoshop.
As I said before, I doubt any paparazzi would get "da shot" ;) being at the right time in the right place not even knowing for sure if MJ was living there It´s like winning the lotto.
-
@wishingstar,
Glad to know you understood the meaning of the post :) Many dimensions, perspectives and views in a constant movement. One needs to focus to get all the pieces in order to build the image that "makes sense" to the eye.
(are you an art/ art history teacher? :) )
-
Thanks Grace for the reminder of the articles.
-
@wishingstar,
Glad to know you understood the meaning of the post :) Many dimensions, perspectives and views in a constant movement. One needs to focus to get all the pieces in order to build the image that "makes sense" to the eye.
(are you an art/ art history teacher? :) )
Hey Gema......
Yes, last year rounded out ten years of teaching art history to young children (kindergarten mostly....at times up to third grade) I love the young kids....they are sponges for knowledge. At the end of the year they can tell you the basic art forms/ideas of: Picasso, Cezanne, Michelangelo, Vasarely, Seurat, Lautrec, Monet and Van Gogh. It's so much fun to see their little faces light up. Picasso is always a big hit. I have kids that are literally afraid to draw a flower. They are afraid because they do not want to draw it incorrectly. It's why the first artist of the year is always Picasso for me. Once they see that art is not about perfection, it's about creativity.....they are at ease, and ready to create and learn. I am in the process of canning my curriculum to sell as packets for teachers everywhere(easier said than done!). I also want to put the 9 months of artists into one presentation. I'd love to get in front of groups of kids, parents, teachers. It's all "simmering" ....to borrow a term ;) It seems like everything happens at once for me. I have a lot going on...but my backbone is always sharing an appreciation for art.
I have seen this hoax as many cubistic layers from the start. Michael is every bit the genius of Picasso.....only he has even more from which to create (music, film, art, writing.....etc). I believe there are layers in the photos we are talking about. They are like a treasure map of sorts. I also remember TS mentioning update 4....talked about how the number 7 is important. The red shirt with 777 is a big clue in TII (I believe). Here is the link to TS's post about 777:
viewtopic.php?f=125&t=7010 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=125&t=7010)
We have 7 layers in the photos, 7 something else, and 7 something else? But what?
7 faces maybe?
Anyways...thanks for the reply Gema! :)
Hope you are having a beautiful day!
Blessings Always!
-
Marvelous! great that kids learn about art that way! :D Primitive art is the easiest for them to understand as well :)
(Well, seems I found a partner here to talk about art hee hee :D, I thought that art historians were an extinguished race)
I checked the link and endedp up reading this one, which I missed btw, about the number 7
viewtopic.php?f=125&t=7064 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=125&t=7064)
If all goes down to 7, it could be 7 layers in everything, 7 endings, 7 views...as you say. About faces: The leaf pattern, was discussed in update Feruary 26th. I saw many faces myself in different positions and actions, one was the face of a monkey btw :lol: and Souza saw a clown with a hat, so go figure :lol: if there are really hidden faces layer over layer in that ambo pic.
-
Souza wrote:
So I think we established that the most plausible theory is that it was ambulance #71 on both occasions
How was it established? By TS saying it? I haven't seen hard evidence to convince me that the fake picture was taken inside the real ambulance #71. I see a fake picture taken inside an ambulance with two men (one of whom has ashy elbows) ;) and I've seen the real ambulance #71 on "the day of death" in video 3 different ways. One from Hollywood T.V. The tour bus footage and Tristan's which shows the inside also. That still doesn't prove that the fake pic was taken inside ambulance #71.
That video footage TS provided for us was to come to the conclusion of how the cabinet colors changed because of lighting but that still doesn't prove the same ambulance was used on That day and um the other day...I swear that line has become a household catch phrase. Right on Ben! ;) 8-)
Am I just supposed to take TS at his word? I know full well there might not be any evidence to show me that the fake pic was done inside the real ambulance but it doesn't mean I am just gonna go with what TS said IF I want better proof or a better arguement to convince me. Solid evidence is what this game was about. Solid theories. Not believing any ole thing thrown at us. 8-)
TS could still be in D.A. :twisted: challenge mode. I wouldn't be so quick to let down the guards. I am not trying to be difficult and I am not being unreasonable to ask for better than what I have seen.
I have agreed with the majority of what TS said in his last post regarding FBI. I do know he is not above throwing in contradictions in his words. He did it all through out his updates. ;)
Souza wrote:
Of course they are in on the hoax, because the pic was staged. That is something we can say without any doubts.
Not me I have doubts.
No, not because TS is saying it, but because I ran out of excuses and he made more sense. There is no proof that it is a different ambulance, that's my point. So the most plausible THEORY would be, if you look at TS' explanation of why it would make sense that it's the same, is that it indeed is the same. The other theory being that the ambulance on the picture was a set. And that seems to be a little complex when you can use the real thing.
The leaf pattern is shopped in, so that has nothing to do with the interior of the ambulance. I was wrong about the position of the EMT at the head, because if I look at the angle it would indeed be possible to get a shot like that, and the white border can indeed be explained by the lighting, although I find the contrast a little too big, but I can't say for sure wheter or not that is possible. The only thing that still looks fishy to me is the blood pressure thing, which looks like a sticker in the pics, but that could be an optical illusion.
So I am not saying it IS the same ambulance, I am merely saying that it makes the most sense, unless someone can shine some new light over this. Do you get what I mean? I can't see anything on that picture anymore, I have looked at it for too long.
Yes I do get what you mean. I haven't forgot that the leaves/face is Photoshopped in. I have been very aware of the fake picture and the layers involved to make all the reflections seem realistic. Right: to you it makes the most sense if you really have no other ideas. To me: I am not completely convinced. There have been times when I have had to come to a conclusion of a theory after I have exhuasted all of my thinking on it. I have had to say ok that makes the most sense without having better evidence.
In this case I am having a reasonable doubt and I am unable to say that the ambulance is one in the same. Either I will see evidence that shows they (fake ambulance pic and real ambulance #71) are the same or I will see evidence that they are not the same.
Right now I have neither of those as rock solid evidence. Right now I would have to make assumptions and guesses. The filmsy evidence needs to be thrown out. 8-)
-
TS could still be in D.A. :twisted: challenge mode. I wouldn't be so quick to let down the guards. I am not trying to be difficult and I am not being unreasonable to ask for better than what I have seen.
If TS is the DA challenge mode - well he's doing a very good job finding convincing arguments for a fake theory. His answers are well documented and always following a logical path, taking the story as a whole - like when we make a puzzle, everything has to fit in.
If he did such a great job in defending a challenging theory only, I wonder what the real theory argumentation is going to look like.
At this point I can believe that if we have a hoax, then FBI is involved, LAFD is in the know, paramedics have to be in and I don't bother too much about the pic, if it was taken in the real ambulance or not because, with the previous established, I don't think it matters very much, but the logical answer in this context is they used the real ambulance because why bother find another ambulance if the whole scenario was already made and LAFD was in anyway?
Gina,
I have taken all of what your saying about how TS has documented his theories into consideration regarding the FBI and LAFD. See my evidence post below. That is not what I am disputing. I am only talking about the fake picture actually taken in the real ambulance #71. There is not solid documented evidence for that. We have only a sentence of TS saying the fake picture was taken inside the real ambulance #71.
TS_comments wrote:
I am now going to say that the staged photo was done in the same LAFD #71 ambulance--there were not two different ambulances. In fact, why would they need a different ambulance (rented or otherwise), if the FBI was working directly with LAFD station #71?
We have a fake picture of MJ's dummy being worked on by some men dressed in ambulance wear. We can see a small portion of the inside of the ambulance. We have a video from Tristan showing the real ambulance #71 but that still doesn't show or prove that the fake picture was taken inside the real ambulance. For me I am not satisfied with that kind of evidence to be able to say that the fake pic was done inside the real ambulance.
See below on my thoughts regarding how LAFD is involved with the FBI. I don't think they are directly involved. I say there is 2 middle men.[/b]
Ok I didn't realize you were gonna go there TS. ;) I was trying to just stay on the subject of the paramedics but now that you opened up the direction of this to go towards the FBI being involved I am re-posting some info I have known about for a while now. I didn't want to get to ahead of the game, lol ...
[/color]
I brought the FBI in at this point for a few reasons, one of which was that people in this thread were already discussing possible government involvement. Also, I intentionally posted the beginning of this thread at 3:33, as a clue about the 333 pages of FBI files--intending to bring the FBI in at some point in this thread.
The biggest reason I brought the FBI in at this point, though, is something that seems to have gotten lost or set aside in all the discussion of the FBI and other things. So let's see if we can get back on track. If the FBI is involved: would they hire actors and rent an ambulance, or would they cooperate with the real LAFD paramedics and use the actual #71 ambulance from Bel Air?
I do not think the FBI would hire actors and rent an ambulance because Michael took care of that part. I believe Michael staged the ambulance picture on a different day using actors dressed like paramedics in a different ambulance other than #71 but it was similiar enough to make the picture that we saw more legit. I also think the staged picture was done in a closed set, not at Carolwood.
I believe the FBI would cooperate with the real LAFD and visa versa. The real LAFD would cooperate with Michael and the FBI through one key person in the upper level and on a need to know basis. I believe the key person in LAFD is the Captian and under his direction the real paramedics in the real ambulance #71 from Bel Air responded and did their job like good employees. No questions asked and they did not need to know anything other than do your job.
The below 911 call was released by LAFD. I am adding that to the evidence pile for my theories and opinions. I also added a different version of the 911 call for comparison and contradiction in the way the call was answered by the dispatcher.
The 2nd video LAFD Capt. recalls Michael Jackson (MJ) events on June 25, 2009 with the 911 call has something interesting in it. The dispatcher answers the call by sayin Fire Paramedic 33... 8-)
[youtube:zjko1ay4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oftybkF__uc[/youtube:zjko1ay4]
Uploaded by PoliticsNewsPolitics on Jun 26, 2009
The L.A. County Fire Department released the tape of the 911 call made when Michael Jackson went into cardiac arrest.
[youtube:zjko1ay4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgD4COfhrLU&feature=related[/youtube:zjko1ay4]
I am adding this video also as evidence. I believe that this show had clues in it also. The fire captain is very suspect in my book. He seems to be acting. I think he is another key person. He would be the some of the paramedics in on it.
LAFD Capt. recalls Michael Jackson (MJ) events on June 25, 2009
[youtube:zjko1ay4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggewNtwvHJ4&feature=related[/youtube:zjko1ay4]
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309781#p309781 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309781#p309781)
In this video the Captain is so precise on the time the 911 call was made. He even says it down to the seconds, lol
Below is some of the clue information I have used to come to my opinions and theories on this subject. ;)
TS wrote:
Now back to the “MJ Conspiracy” book and video. Quite obviously, there was a conspiracy against MJ, even though it wasn’t a murder conspiracy. And the testimony from Aphrodite shows that people involved in a conspiracy may not even know it themselves (only the upper levels understand). And even after she recognized the conspiracy, it seems that she only saw media and money as the source of the conspiracy—not the NWO powers controlling the media.
viewtopic.php?f=72&t=7194&start=0 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=7194&start=0)
TS wrote:
MJ has been planning this hoax for many years; and he had the time and influence to get a few key people in the right positions to pull it off—and yes, even government agencies still have some good people in them. Look at history: many times people in high positions have stood up against the corruption in their own system (government, or church, etc).
TS wrote:
But MJ did not involve large quantities of people. In fact, the “three-way theory” is basically correct http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpb ... 2&start=0; (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=5382&start=0;) this theory states that the fewer people “in on it”, the better (although more than three are actually involved, and the “three-way theory” does allow for more than three).
Also, as far as possible, legal loopholes were used. Nevertheless, with a hoax of this magnitude and importance: whether the line was ever crossed, between being inside or outside of legal loopholes, is a question that probably doesn’t even need to be answered.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
4-37. Hints on the “How’s” of the Hoax
In this update, I have gone into great detail about the timing of the hoax (as well as a few other aspects). Previously, I have gone into great detail about the reasons for the hoax http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpb ... 0&sr=posts (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/search.php?author_id=1440&sr=posts). That leaves only one frontier remaining: how did MJ succeed in pulling off this massive hoax?
I’m not going to go into great detail on that now, it would be very long—and this update is already the longest update by far. But I will give some hints, to help you go in the right direction if you want to investigate it further.
For starters, maybe it is time to create a sub-forum for Coherent Theories. By this, I mean theories that start putting all the pieces together, fitting into one bigger picture. But we can’t have MJ hopping on a plane at LAX, escaping out of a tunnel in the basement of UCLA, and riding alive in the helicopter to the coroner’s office, as well as in the other helicopter—all at the same time. This would not qualify as a coherent theory.
I think we already have a huge clue from Jermaine, telling us that MJ went to the “airport”—NOT the hospital. And in fact, it would’ve been very risky and unnecessary for him to ride alive in the ambulance to UCLA, and then go into UCLA where he could be easily recognized (and hard to play dead), and then try to escape somehow. What would be the point?
Based on the planned timing of the hoax, we should now be able to see very plainly that the living MJ body double theory doesn’t work. There is no chance that a living double just happened to die on the right year, the right day, and the right hour.
This leaves us with three possibilities. There was no body at all, which would require quite a few people to be “in on it”. There was a dummy, not a real human; this reduces the number of people “in on it”, and also makes it easy to duplicate the looks of MJ (but paramedics would need to be “in on it”, because they would not be fooled by a dummy). Or there was a real human corpse, which had recently died. In fact, at different times and places, there could’ve been more than one corpse and/or dummy used as needed.
TS wrote:
4-38. Only a Few Would Need to Be “In On It”
Let me also clue you in on a few tricks, so that only a relatively few people would need to be “in on it”. The endlessly discussed helicopter ride to the coroner: it could’ve had a living and/or a dead body in it, but not MJ; and yet none of the people in the copter, or working that situation, would’ve had any clue that MJ was alive.
All you would need to do is create a diversion for the media and public: the helicopter and all would be a big show for the media, while they transport the (supposedly) “real” MJ’s body in an unmarked vehicle—this would keep MJ’s body safer. And all the people “involved” in that diversion operation would play right along, and obey without question like good little boys and girls, thinking all the while that MJ’s dead body was being transported in some unmarked vehicle (and not even questioning whether or not MJ was actually dead). And even if they suspected later that MJ is alive, how would they know? They would not know, they would just suspect it (like hoax believers).
The fact that it’s a criminal case is another good alibi for secrecy and cover-up; this way, nobody thinks twice when they’re told not to talk about what they did or did not see at UCLA on June 25 (or other times and places).
[youtube:zjko1ay4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMB5gfcVChg[/youtube:zjko1ay4]
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053)
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185#p311394 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185#p311394)
In regards to the question why the paramedic drove slowly and backwards, my opinion is (see below):
IF Michael/the patient was already DOA when the paramedics got to the house and they tried to do CPR there for a good amount of time; the ambulance would not need to be in a hurry when leaving because the patient is already gone.
To the airport! lol
Also that was the diversion tactic for the media and public while I believe Michael slipped out a back gate and went to the AIRPORT.
-
I'm sticking with MJ being the pony-tailed "paramedic". It was the initial instinct of several good minds and it makes sense with the evidence we have access to.
Shit, he may even have been driving. Like Souza said, maybe that's why the backing up job was so crappy.
Driver's license used for ID and all...
I think after so long at this hoax, we have ended up doing quite a good job of talking ourselves out of a lot of what is actually the truth. We discovered it, but never got any feedback or validation, so we over thought and over analyzed, and perceptions get distorted with time and lack of information, and the media's influence (over us too, don't kid yourself), after a year or so and no sign of MJ, our investigations have been bound to get a little off track.
My gut says TS is not being completely square with us, which I know he (you, TS) was very upfront about, but I gotta admit, when I know someone is messing with me, sometimes lying sometimes not, I quit playing. I'm sorry, it's just who I am. I really hate being lied to, it really bothers me.
-
bec wrote:
I'm sticking with MJ being the pony-tailed "paramedic". It was the initial instinct of several good minds and it makes sense with the evidence we have access to.
Shit, he may even have been driving. Like Souza said, maybe that's why the backing up job was so crappy.
Driver's license used for ID and all...
I think after so long at this hoax, we have ended up doing quite a good job of talking ourselves out of a lot of what is actually the truth. We discovered it, but never got any feedback or validation, so we over thought and over analyzed, and perceptions get distorted with time and lack of information, and the media's influence (over us too, don't kid yourself), after a year or so and no sign of MJ, our investigations have been bound to get a little off track.
My gut says TS is not being completely square with us, which I know he (you, TS) was very upfront about, but I gotta admit, when I know someone is messing with me, sometimes lying sometimes not, I quit playing. I'm sorry, it's just who I am. I really hate being lied to, it really bothers me.
I agree, and i remember this image taken inside an ambulance, i am sure that is Michael, i saw him, I am going to search the video
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/995/nochmal.jpg (http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/995/nochmal.jpg)
credits: wendst6
viewtopic.php?f=38&t=5292 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=5292)
-
Tonight I was out with friends, and we met some men who are paramedics. In our conversation, I asked one of them if anyone can take pictures from the back of the ambulance, if the pictures will come out. He said NO. He was explaining to me that the windows in the back are made with a special substance that no one can see nor can take pictures. Nothing will come out. If they decide to take pictures from the front window than yes you can get some good clear pictures. Now I live in Montreal, I do not know if they use the same substance for tinting the windows for the ambulances in USA. Just to let you know. blessings.
-
Does anyone recognize this?
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/S2NR.jpg)
-
Yes, TS..I think it is from the "real" video of the ambulance backing out, taken from the side of the ambulance....this is the video I took the stills from...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o-yZt7y (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o-yZt7y) ... r_embedded
[youtube:2k2ovggd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o-yZt7yERk&feature=player_embedded[/youtube:2k2ovggd]
-
Does anyone recognize this?
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/S2NR.jpg)
A brown rectangle? Cool.......
-
Does anyone recognize this?
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/S2NR.jpg)
Seriously I lmao when I saw this. :?
(http://globaleyeglasses.com/glassesmania/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/monkey-with-funny-glasses.jpg)
Uh no. Not even with my monkey brain and monkey glasses I borrowed from Souza.
8-)
Peace
-
is this a joke...I'm I on punk'd...wait you have to be famous to be on that show.
-
Does anyone recognize this?
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/S2NR.jpg)
Sorry I don't. What are we suppose to see in this cropped photo?
-
Since you like to play games TS, I think it is a picture of the ambulance windows...proving that the picture wasn't taken on that fateful day. Just a blurry image of a tinted window...and very pixalated. When reduced, it looks a bit like this:
-
Looks familiar. A few layers of pics there. A city sky line beneath the intitial couple of faces. I'm thinking of "Can You Feel It' clip. I apologize in advance for my ignorance.
-
Does anyone recognize this?
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/S2NR.jpg)
Yes, it's a close-up of the handle I mentioned before where the leaf pattern overlaps.
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/leaves03.jpg)
<!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
-
Good answer Souza.
-
Does anyone recognize this?
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/S2NR.jpg)
Yes, it's a close-up of the handle I mentioned before where the leaf pattern overlaps.
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/leaves03.jpg)
;)
Well done !!!!
-
Does anyone recognize this?
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/S2NR.jpg)
I suggest people stand back in a darkened room about 2 metres from their computer screen and look at this pic that TS posted ....I did and it is quite interesting to see what appears out of the pixellation.
-
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/PatternClose-up.jpg)
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRZoQ2uh6FhG-baS1Gpc71RZY2ehZMdBOtnOmcDSptcaw6tzgwU)
Hey TS, is this somehow related to the leaf-pattern? London? UK? :)
-
Does anyone recognize this?
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/S2NR.jpg)
Ok maybe my eyes are playing a game to me but I see Michael's face there. :shock:
-
Does anyone recognize this?
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/S2NR.jpg)
To me it looks like an ambulance snake logo
www.google.com/m/search?site=images&gl= ... +snake#i=0 (http://www.google.com/m/search?site=images&gl=au&client=ms-samsung&source=mog&aq=0&oq=ambulance%2520logo%2520&aqi=g2-k17d0t0&fkt=3852&fsdt=18277&htf=&his=&q=ambulance+logo+snake#i=0)
Sorry can't post it here...on my phone.
-
This is what the symbol means on the ambulance.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_of_Asclepius
This is the bibical meaning for the symbol:
Then the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people, so that many people of Israel died. And the people came to Moses and said, "We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD and against you. Pray to the LORD, that he take away the serpents from us." So Moses prayed for the people. And the LORD said to Moses, "Make a fiery serpent and set it on a pole, and everyone who is bitten, when he sees it, shall live." Moses made a bronze serpent and set it on a pole. And if a serpent bit anyone, he would look at the bronze serpent and live.
-
I see the snake too. My eyes may be failing me after staring at the ambulance photo too much but I can definitely make it out, it's a distinctive design.
-
I keep seeing Michael from TII.....I want to say They Don't Really Care About Us but could be a different song. My best guess right now.....I will keep playing around with it.......
Blessings!
-
Does anyone recognize this?
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/S2NR.jpg)
A brown rectangle? Cool.......
This reminds me of a joke :lol:
Mother: - "Doctor, my son has a serious problem, please perform the Rorschach test to look into his subconscious mind. "
The doctor presents to the child the different images, 10 of them, and to all the child replied: - "I see a couple making love on a square bed. "
The mother begins to mourn - "Oh doctor, my child has a problem, he always sees a couple making love on a square bed, no matter what image he looks, he always sees the same. "
And the Doctor replies to the mourning mother: - "Yes, ma´am, your child has a serious problem ..... the couple is making love under the square bed, not on top the square bed. "
-
I suggest people stand back in a darkened room about 2 metres from their computer screen and look at this pic that TS posted ....I did and it is quite interesting to see what appears out of the pixellation.
I see a couple making love on a square bed :lol: :lol:
-
Does anyone recognize this?
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/S2NR.jpg)
I looked at it in a darkened room and I also can see MJ´s face in the upper half. That´s a bit spooky, a bit similar to the Shroud of Turin... :?
Ok maybe it´s because I´ve already had a glass of Prosecco, let me have another one and I´ll tell you where the white rabbit is... ;)
-
Does anyone recognize this?
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/S2NR.jpg)
I looked at it in a darkened room and I also can see MJ´s face in the upper half. That´s a bit spooky, a bit similar to the Shroud of Turin... :?
Ok maybe it´s because I´ve already had a glass of Prosecco, let me have another one and I´ll tell you where the white rabbit is... ;)
LOL, the very first thing popped into my mind was the Shourd!
Welcome eternalflame :) great to have you here! Great post too ;)
Glad I wasn't the only one that saw that!!!
Blessings Always
-
@wishingstar: thanks for your warm welcome!
@ TS: never mind because we are joking a lot about this, but this is really difficult stuff!
-
I keep seeing Michael from TII.....I want to say They Don't Really Care About Us but could be a different song. My best guess right now.....I will keep playing around with it.......
Blessings!
@ wishingstar
I can see a face too - I can't really tell 100% if it is Michael's face, but it looks like it could be - maybe it's an image captured from TII, like you suggest perhaps TDRCAU, which was Photoshopped in a very hidden place in the ambulance photo :)
It certainly jumped out at me when I turned the lights off and stood back from my monitor.
8-)
-
Does anyone recognize this?
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/S2NR.jpg)
It is the image from the gray back rest on the side seat behind the paramedic standing up!
-
Oh boy it's not recognizable...the more i look at it the more i see DNA :lol:
-
Does anyone recognize this?
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/S2NR.jpg)
It is the image from the gray back rest on the side seat behind the paramedic standing up!
Or on the paramedic's pants. Of which I forgot to add is a reflection on the window of Michael standing outside ...IMHO
-
I see Michael's eye with curls on it.
-
Does anyone recognize this?
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/S2NR.jpg)
I looked at it in a darkened room and I also can see MJ´s face in the upper half.
Ohh thank God that I'm not the only one who see Michael there. I thought that I started to lose it :lol:
-
He appears to be watching us.
-
Does anyone recognize this?
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/S2NR.jpg)
Have you taken a picture of yourself in the dark, TS? :D
-
(http://img848.imageshack.us/img848/9210/92225449.jpg)
To me it's too clear!!! not an f8ckin' leaf....its MJ in tha' house!
-
Does anyone recognize this?
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/S2NR.jpg)
Well, I can tell you that if I zoom out to 30%, it becomes less pixelated and I recognize a very obvious Roman nose. With that reference point, I can place a complete Elvis face in the scene, closed eyes, possibly with a mic in his hand. A familiar look of Elvis deep in song...
It reminds me of a poster or something I saw in the 70s--maybe from That's The Way It Is, or whatever the name of that film was, which they changed to The Way It Was , when Elvis! died. But...the brain has a silly way of filling in blanks, so, IDK...tell us. :|
-
(http://img848.imageshack.us/img848/9210/92225449.jpg)
To me it's too clear!!! not an f8ckin' leaf....its MJ in tha' house!
Weird...in that picture I see Smooth Criminal MJ.
-
I still see the couple making love under the bed :?
-
I see:
7
7
7
but I see 7s everywhere so I could just be imagining it.
-
Yes, TS..I think it is from the "real" video of the ambulance backing out, taken from the side of the ambulance....this is the video I took the stills from...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o-yZt7y (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o-yZt7y) ... r_embedded
[youtube:dfyfkw60]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o-yZt7yERk&feature=player_embedded[/youtube:dfyfkw60]
isn't that the leaf patterns on the ground there around the person with the camara? :?
-
I can't get MagicEye out of my head.....here is a website for them
http://www.magiceye.com/enter.html (http://www.magiceye.com/enter.html)
*interesting to note Sony is on their client list
Blessings!
-
Does anyone recognize this?
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/S2NR.jpg)
i recognize mjs face..glasses, nose and mouth :?
-
Do I remember we were out for a proof that would stand a trial?
Or was the picture giving a history of how it was pulled of?
Or are we just - oh just another time - stretching time a little bit more?
I remember a chewing gum will pop back at a certain moment.
Role model?
-
this picture reminds me this black object on stage in This is it movie
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/monolith01.jpg)
-
this picture reminds me this black object on stage in This is it movie
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/monolith01.jpg)
wasn't that the doorway by which michael was going to take his briefcase or suitcase and exit the stage into the mjair plane that was waiting ?
-
this picture reminds me this black object on stage in This is it movie
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/monolith01.jpg)
wasn't that the doorway by which michael was going to take his briefcase or suitcase and exit the stage into the mjair plane that was waiting ?
yes, it seemed like it was some kind of door, but still I have always wondered about it, plus it just reminds me the rectangle TS posted :?
-
Gema wrote:
I still see the couple making love under the bed
(http://www.argentinet.com/emot/emot2/riie.gif)
-
Does anyone recognize this?
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/S2NR.jpg)
no :?
-
this picture reminds me this black object on stage in This is it movie
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/monolith01.jpg)
wasn't that the doorway by which michael was going to take his briefcase or suitcase and exit the stage into the mjair plane that was waiting ?
yes, it seemed like it was some kind of door, but still I have always wondered about it, plus it just reminds me the rectangle TS posted :?
for me here is the problem with all of this though the human mind can sometimes take the least little thing and let it run them in all sorts of directions. so while we are recieving all of these little tidbits from every direction are we wasting valueable time , are we even maybe helping to create the illusion of a hoax when in fact there is one but it is not michael :?
-
[youtube:2sbqsvj4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvr08oqpK44&feature=player_embedded#at=112[/youtube:2sbqsvj4]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvr08oqp ... ded#at=112 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvr08oqpK44&feature=player_embedded#at=112)
someone can do a screen shot between 1:52 and 1:53 minutes, :?: you can see someone with his face covered with a lid mouth
-
I really don't see why that dark rectangle is important....sorry
and I think it is a little ridiculous to try and see "shapes in the clouds" and think they can mean something :?
-
I really don't see why that dark rectangle is important....sorry
and I think it is a little ridiculous to try and see "shapes in the clouds" and think they can mean something :?
why gina :shock: what are you trying to say ;)
-
(http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/7842/s2nr.jpg) (http://img20.imageshack.us/i/s2nr.jpg/)
is that what i recognize..its just me :?: :?:
-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suggestion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suggestion)
Suggestion is the psychological process by which one person guides the thoughts, feelings, or behaviour of another.
Waking suggestion
Suggestions, however, can also have an effect in the absence of a hypnosis. These so-called "waking suggestions" are given in precisely the same way as "hypnotic suggestions" (i.e., suggestions given within hypnosis) and can produce strong changes in perceptual experience.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_illusion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_illusion)
An optical illusion (also called a visual illusion) is characterized by visually perceived images that differ from objective reality. The information gathered by the eye is processed in the brain to give a perception that does not tally with a physical measurement of the stimulus source. There are three main types: literal optical illusions that create images that are different from the objects that make them, physiological ones that are the effects on the eyes and brain of excessive stimulation of a specific type (brightness, tilt, color, movement), and cognitive illusions where the eye and brain make unconscious inferences. They can also be known as "mind games".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perception (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perception)
Perception and reality
In the case of visual perception, some people can actually see the percept shift in their mind's eye. Others, who are not picture thinkers, may not necessarily perceive the 'shape-shifting' as their world changes. The 'esemplastic' nature has been shown by experiment: an ambiguous image has multiple interpretations on the perceptual level.
Just as one object can give rise to multiple percepts, so an object may fail to give rise to any percept at all: if the percept has no grounding in a person's experience, the person may literally not perceive it.
The processes of perception routinely alter what humans see. When people view something with a preconceived concept about it, they tend to take those concepts and see them whether or not they are there. This problem stems from the fact that humans are unable to understand new information, without the inherent bias of their previous knowledge. A person’s knowledge creates his or her reality as much as the truth, because the human mind can only contemplate that to which it has been exposed. When objects are viewed without understanding, the mind will try to reach for something that it already recognizes, in order to process what it is viewing. That which most closely relates to the unfamiliar from our past experiences, makes up what we see when we look at things that we don’t comprehend.
Do I remember we were out for a proof that would stand a trial?
Or was the picture giving a history of how it was pulled of?
Or are we just - oh just another time - stretching time a little bit more?
I remember a chewing gum will pop back at a certain moment.
Role model?
Yes Grace. IF the evidence presented to us is flimsy and wouldn't hold up in a court of law I was under the impression that we should not use it. There are strong points/evidence to prove the ambulance picture is fake but there is no strong evidence to prove that the fake ambulance pic was taken inside the real ambulance #71. I lmao when TS posted this last picture with the question any recognize this... 8-)
I instantly thought of all the above information. One person made a suggestion and the rest followed. This is a mind game to me. ;)
Peace
-
I really don't see why that dark rectangle is important....sorry
and I think it is a little ridiculous to try and see "shapes in the clouds" and think they can mean something :?
why gina :shock: what are you trying to say ;)
I'm trying to say that I can believe things that make sense but I feel ridiculous to analyse every pixel of that photo.....photos in general do have all sorts of shades that don't necessarily have a hidden meaning.
-
Do I remember we were out for a proof that would stand a trial? ...
Yes, Grace, that is exactly one of my reasons for posting this.
We do want to enjoy this investigation, and get some laughs now and then--and use our imagination, etc. However, we also need to be careful not to confuse the fun and imaginary with good solid evidence that will hold up in court.
Souza was right, I merely cropped the rectangle handle part of the Ambulance1.jpg
Are we SURE that the leaf-pattern is Photoshopped into the picture? Is there good, SOLID evidence that leaf-pattern overlaps the handle? Or could the mind be imagining a leaf-pattern overlap, just as others (who did not know the source of the cropped picture) saw several other things in it?
Here it is again.
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/S2NR.jpg)
-
this picture reminds me this black object on stage in This is it movie
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/monolith01.jpg)
wasn't that the doorway by which michael was going to take his briefcase or suitcase and exit the stage into the mjair plane that was waiting ?
yes, it seemed like it was some kind of door, but still I have always wondered about it, plus it just reminds me the rectangle TS posted :?
for me here is the problem with all of this though the human mind can sometimes take the least little thing and let it run them in all sorts of directions. so while we are recieving all of these little tidbits from every direction are we wasting valueable time , are we even maybe helping to create the illusion of a hoax when in fact there is one but it is not michael :?
Why do i think the same as suspiciousmind ?
-
if I'm talking to someone and I will try to convince him that Michael is alive, I can not teach this :roll:
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/S2NR.jpg)
-
if I'm talking to someone and I will try to convince him that Michael is alive, I can not teach this :roll:
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/S2NR.jpg)
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Tom Sneddon has nothing better to do..but to try to hypnotize us...ain't working with me...i told what i saw and it ain't a damn leaf.
-
Souza was right, I merely cropped the rectangle handle part of the Ambulance1.jpg
Of course, nothing new.
Are we SURE that the leaf-pattern is Photoshopped into the picture? Is there good, SOLID evidence that leaf-pattern overlaps the handle? Or could the mind be imagining a leaf-pattern overlap, just as others (who did not know the source of the cropped picture) saw several other things in it?
you're asking us to answer this but how can we possibly know?!
We are not experts in photography at least I'm not.
Anyway, my opinion is that the leaf-pattern in photoshoped into the pic. If it overlaps the handle or not - what is the relevance of it?
-
GINAFELICIA wrote:
TS_comments wrote:
Souza was right, I merely cropped the rectangle handle part of the Ambulance1.jpg
Of course, nothing new.
TS_comments wrote:
Are we SURE that the leaf-pattern is Photoshopped into the picture? Is there good, SOLID evidence that leaf-pattern overlaps the handle? Or could the mind be imagining a leaf-pattern overlap, just as others (who did not know the source of the cropped picture) saw several other things in it?
You are right, .. I'm no expert in photoshop so I can not explain this :roll:
-
It's probably the leaf-pattern is the reflection of the photographer's shirt (ART) who took the photo the "other day". Anybody else see this?
-
if I continue seeing these pictures I'll end up like the man in the photo :roll: :lol:
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_D-gRqU1ZgCw/TDp4lUJjLOI/AAAAAAAAABM/LJWyg2xBm4w/S1600-R/Camisa+de+fuerza.jpg)
-
TS ... TS ...
I swear I'd much rather his many posts about numerology, at least they were more convincing. Are you sure that you are the same person?
Does one of these days we'll have answers to more important things like UCLA?
Sorry, but I feel so ridiculous with those their moves. I can imagine you laughing behind your PC discussions here in this session. I come here hoping to have something importamte but never see anything else. Are you kidding with this?
And one can not expel me or curse me or say here that I'm all wrong, etc.. I do not think you're being nice to believers. Incidentally, I still wanted an explanation about your mistake of the trial date.
But I will go unanswered (as always). :|
-
AnaMarcia wrote:
TS ... TS ...
I swear I'd much rather his many posts about numerology, at least they were more convincing. Are you sure that you are the same person?
8-)
-
Maybe we can say that there is no solid evidence that the leaf pattern is photoshopped; so it cannot be considered as a proof...because how can we prove it? We just have the naked eye and almost everybody has seen something different. I'm confused now i didn't even recognize that it was the handle. :?
-
Do I remember we were out for a proof that would stand a trial? ...
Yes, Grace, that is exactly one of my reasons for posting this.
We do want to enjoy this investigation, and get some laughs now and then--and use our imagination, etc. However, we also need to be careful not to confuse the fun and imaginary with good solid evidence that will hold up in court.
Souza was right, I merely cropped the rectangle handle part of the Ambulance1.jpg
Are we SURE that the leaf-pattern is Photoshopped into the picture? Is there good, SOLID evidence that leaf-pattern overlaps the handle? Or could the mind be imagining a leaf-pattern overlap, just as others (who did not know the source of the cropped picture) saw several other things in it?
Here it is again.
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/S2NR.jpg)
I'm sorry but I am always straight-forward, as I don't like under any motive to be played with. I ask you now to please tell me: is this what people have to look for? To see faces and messages and maybe words or anything in a blurred thing? For instance if you look at the clouds now you most likely will see some face or shape or even words in them. You can see anything. This situation is too serious to play games. At least that's how it is for me and always has been. Do you think people should search for faces in cloud-like photos, at this point in time?
I hope to not be taken as being harsh, but I'm being serious here, and I hope you understand this. It all is based on respect.
-
Do I remember we were out for a proof that would stand a trial? ...
Yes, Grace, that is exactly one of my reasons for posting this.
We do want to enjoy this investigation, and get some laughs now and then--and use our imagination, etc. However, we also need to be careful not to confuse the fun and imaginary with good solid evidence that will hold up in court.
Souza was right, I merely cropped the rectangle handle part of the Ambulance1.jpg
Are we SURE that the leaf-pattern is Photoshopped into the picture? Is there good, SOLID evidence that leaf-pattern overlaps the handle? Or could the mind be imagining a leaf-pattern overlap, just as others (who did not know the source of the cropped picture) saw several other things in it?
Here it is again.
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/S2NR.jpg)
I'm sorry but I am always straight-forward, as I don't like under any motive to be played with. I ask you now to please tell me: is this what people have to look for? To see faces and messages and maybe words or anything in a blurred thing? For instance if you look at the clouds now you most likely will see some face or shape or even words in them. You can see anything. This situation is too serious to play games. At least that's how it is for me and always has been. Do you think people should search for faces in cloud-like photos?
I hope to not be taken as being harsh, but I'm being serious here, and I hope you understand this. It all is based on respect.
Well, maybe we should remember what TS asked us. He/she/it :roll: asked:"Do you recognize this?" That means to me: do you recognize the photo, and not, what´s in it...
nevertheless it was fun to see and find some things in it, just as you said: it´s like watching the clouds...
-
This is NOT a game
-
This is NOT a game
As far as I´m concerned I´m well aware that all this is not a game. But having fun sometimes prevents me from getting lost in spheres that are not good for my brain. Having fun keeps me on the ground.Us all having fun doesn´t mean we don´t take things seriously, nevertheless.
I say this with respect and love.
-
Do I remember we were out for a proof that would stand a trial? ...
Yes, Grace, that is exactly one of my reasons for posting this.
We do want to enjoy this investigation, and get some laughs now and then--and use our imagination, etc. However, we also need to be careful not to confuse the fun and imaginary with good solid evidence that will hold up in court.
Souza was right, I merely cropped the rectangle handle part of the Ambulance1.jpg
Are we SURE that the leaf-pattern is Photoshopped into the picture? Is there good, SOLID evidence that leaf-pattern overlaps the handle? Or could the mind be imagining a leaf-pattern overlap, just as others (who did not know the source of the cropped picture) saw several other things in it?
Here it is again.
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/S2NR.jpg)
I'm sorry but I am always straight-forward, as I don't like under any motive to be played with. I ask you now to please tell me: is this what people have to look for? To see faces and messages and maybe words or anything in a blurred thing? For instance if you look at the clouds now you most likely will see some face or shape or even words in them. You can see anything. This situation is too serious to play games. At least that's how it is for me and always has been. Do you think people should search for faces in cloud-like photos, at this point in time?
I hope to not be taken as being harsh, but I'm being serious here, and I hope you understand this. It all is based on respect.
:(
-
so is it murry's next line of defence to show a hoax? why does it need to stand up in court? am i thick here?
-
IDK, I am so confused. This is the first time in almost 2 years that I have felt unsure of things.
Maybe the whole point of this photo is to show us that we are making things more complicated than they really are. We're seeing things that aren't there and reading more into every detail than is necessary. Maybe the point is that things are much simpler than we are making them out to be.
Just like everyone else I hope we have some definate answers soon.
Love and Blessings
-
so is it murry's next line of defence to show a hoax? why does it need to stand up in court? am i thick here?
I think the point is that what we see presented to us isn't always what our minds think it may be. We were trying to make our theories solid. We were trying to make the fake picture with the layers solid enough to stand up in court. We were playing different roles here other than hoaxers. 8-)
We were or more like I was acting as IF I was in a court of law and the evidence wasn't solid enough for me when it came to proving certain aspects of it (the picture). I didn't know what TS had intended for the last comment with the cropped pic but I get it now after his last response. ;)
I think the point is (I am giving my honest opinion) on this lesson is that what was presented in court during Michael's trial was fabricated evidence and that is what is happening in Murray's trial. The evidence that is being presented in Murray's trial is fabricated evidence by Michael and not the truth. The media did warp the publics minds and gave false impressions to the public about Michael. People then took what they saw on T.V. and ran with it and came up with ALL kinds of things they thought they were seeing as truth. Make sense? :ugeek:
Peace
-
IDK, I am so confused. This is the first time in almost 2 years that I have felt unsure of things.
Maybe the whole point of this photo is to show us that we are making things more complicated than they really are. We're seeing things that aren't there and reading more into every detail than is necessary. Maybe the point is that things are much simpler than we are making them out to be.
Just like everyone else I hope we have some definate answers soon.
Love and Blessings
im feeling the same :?
-
so is it murry's next line of defence to show a hoax? why does it need to stand up in court? am i thick here?
I think the point is that what we see presented to us isn't always what our minds think it may be. We were trying to make our theories solid. We were trying to make the fake picture with the layers solid enough to stand up in court. We were playing different roles here other than hoaxers. 8-)
We were or more like I was acting as IF I was in a court of law and the evidence wasn't solid enough for me when it came to proving certain aspects of it (the picture). I didn't know what TS had intended for the last comment with the cropped pic but I get it now after his last response. ;)
I think the point is (I am giving my honest opinion) on this lesson is that what was presented in court during Michael's trial was fabricated evidence and that is what is happening in Murray's trial. The evidence that is being presented in Murray's trial is fabricated evidence by Michael and not the truth. The media did warp the publics minds and gave false impressions to the public about Michael. People then took what they saw on T.V. and ran with it and came up with ALL kinds of things they thought they were seeing as truth. Make sense? :ugeek:
Peace
so then why is ts preaching to the choir?
-
so is it murry's next line of defence to show a hoax? why does it need to stand up in court? am i thick here?
I think the point is that what we see presented to us isn't always what our minds think it may be. We were trying to make our theories solid. We were trying to make the fake picture with the layers solid enough to stand up in court. We were playing different roles here other than hoaxers. 8-)
We were or more like I was acting as IF I was in a court of law and the evidence wasn't solid enough for me when it came to proving certain aspects of it (the picture). I didn't know what TS had intended for the last comment with the cropped pic but I get it now after his last response. ;)
I think the point is (I am giving my honest opinion) on this lesson is that what was presented in court during Michael's trial was fabricated evidence and that is what is happening in Murray's trial. The evidence that is being presented in Murray's trial is fabricated evidence by Michael and not the truth. The media did warp the publics minds and gave false impressions to the public about Michael. People then took what they saw on T.V. and ran with it and came up with ALL kinds of things they thought they were seeing as truth. Make sense? :ugeek:
Peace
so then why is ts preaching to the choir?
-
I think after so long at this hoax, we have ended up doing quite a good job of talking ourselves out of a lot of what is actually the truth. We discovered it, but never got any feedback or validation, so we over thought and over analyzed, and perceptions get distorted with time and lack of information, and the media's influence (over us too, don't kid yourself), after a year or so and no sign of MJ, our investigations have been bound to get a little off track.
-
I think after so long at this hoax, we have ended up doing quite a good job of talking ourselves out of a lot of what is actually the truth. We discovered it, but never got any feedback or validation, so we over thought and over analyzed, and perceptions get distorted with time and lack of information, and the media's influence (over us too, don't kid yourself), after a year or so and no sign of MJ, our investigations have been bound to get a little off track.
so are you saying he is trying to get us back on track? i have gotten a little lost about where everyone stands on this issue :?
-
this is not a test like the contradictory statements of witnesses
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/S2NR.jpg)
-
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/S2NR.jpg)
Ok so I see and get that this is part of the ambulance photo. I don't see anything in this rectangle nor do I really see the point in over analyzing it. I can't convince myself that I see something I don't. Unless this rectangle is supposed to represent a piece of the puzzle...
-
Maybe this is a psychological experiment...if we can see things that aren't there.
-
MJhasSpoken wrote:
Maybe this is a psychological experiment...if we can see things that aren't there.
:lol:
-
Does anyone recognize this?
(http://jeremyinc.com/images/cow_dung_pie_crap_pooh_delivery.jpg)
Answer to come later........
Here is a clue to help you: It rhymes with TS... 8-)
-
Maybe this is a psychological experiment...if we can see things that aren't there.
idk wouldn't you be likely to get different results from different kinds of thinkers. creative or analitical kind of thing?
-
Does anyone recognize this?
(http://jeremyinc.com/images/cow_dung_pie_crap_pooh_delivery.jpg)
Answer to come later........
Here is a clue to help you: It rhymes with TS... 8-)
wait !!! i think i see a face in it !
-
Does anyone recognize this?
(http://jeremyinc.com/images/cow_dung_pie_crap_pooh_delivery.jpg)
Answer to come later........
Here is a clue to help you: It rhymes with TS... 8-)
wait !!! i think i see a face in it !
And a leaf pattern.... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
-
You guys are so good. Good little hoaxers!!! :lol:
That munching character cracks me up!! :lol:
-
Does anyone recognize this?
(http://jeremyinc.com/images/cow_dung_pie_crap_pooh_delivery.jpg)
Answer to come later........
Here is a clue to help you: It rhymes with TS... 8-)
wait !!! i think i see a face in it !
And a leaf pattern.... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
looks like we have stepped in it :|
-
Does anyone recognize this?
(http://jeremyinc.com/images/cow_dung_pie_crap_pooh_delivery.jpg)
Answer to come later........
Here is a clue to help you: It rhymes with TS... 8-)
wait !!! i think i see a face in it !
I know this sounds crazy but it reminds me of a rose. I don't see a face at all.
Hmm what could it be?
-
Does anyone recognize this?
(http://jeremyinc.com/images/cow_dung_pie_crap_pooh_delivery.jpg)
Answer to come later........
Here is a clue to help you: It rhymes with TS... 8-)
wait !!! i think i see a face in it !
And a leaf pattern.... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I hope the munching man isn't eating what's in that pic. :lol:
That thing is on speed. :lol:
-
I for one am interested in knowing why these cloudy images have been shopped into many hoax related pictures. Is it like a Rochard test, a method to assess psychological health? An exercise in logic and perception? Or merely a collective hallucination? Let's just wait and see where TS goes with this before writing it off.
-
It now looks like the face of a black cat. The cat face reminds me of the Black Panther Dance Michael did after the music video Black or White. And that reminds me of all the symbols in the video.
-
Does anyone recognize this?
(http://jeremyinc.com/images/cow_dung_pie_crap_pooh_delivery.jpg)
Answer to come later........
here is a clue to help you: It rhymes with TS... 8-)
I know this sounds crazy but it reminds me of a rose. I don't see a face at all.
Hmm what could it be?
It now looks like the face of a black cat. The cat face reminds me of the Black Panther Dance Michael did after the music video Black or White. And that reminds me of all the symbols in the video.
your joking right? (http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/lachen/laughing-smiley-014.gif)
-
Wasn't the original purpose of this thread to discuss if the paramedics are in on the hoax or not?......so regardless if people do or do not see snakes, faces or even dead people in that rectangle what is the point of it? it hasn't added more information about the paramedics role that's for sure :lol:
unless TS is going to fill us in on another lil' tidbit 8-)
The next level means that we are now going to shift the focus from the ambulance picture (whether it was real or fake, etc) to whether or not some or all of the paramedics are in on the hoax. Did the actual paramedics pose for a staged ambulance shot before 6-25-09? Or did MJ use actors dressed like paramedics? Was the ambulance photo staged with the actual #71 LAFD ambulance, or another one that looks about the same inside? Would the real paramedics publicly deny the ambulance photo, if it was not them in the picture (and they were not in on the hoax)?
These and similar questions are now the focus of investigation. Yes, we have already discussed these things to some extent; but it has not been the focus before now. You may continue discussing the ambulance photo, if you want; and please keep that discussion in the proper thread {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053}.
-
Does anyone recognize this?
(http://jeremyinc.com/images/cow_dung_pie_crap_pooh_delivery.jpg)
Answer to come later........
here is a clue to help you: It rhymes with TS... 8-)
I know this sounds crazy but it reminds me of a rose. I don't see a face at all.
Hmm what could it be?
It now looks like the face of a black cat. The cat face reminds me of the Black Panther Dance Michael did after the music video Black or White. And that reminds me of all the symbols in the video.
your joking right? (http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/lachen/laughing-smiley-014.gif)
i certainly hope so , cause i was :oops:
-
If you don't agree with what's being discussed here then please be mature and leave the thread. :roll:
some of us are interested in what TS has to say, and we'd like to stay on and read that subject. Not your mocking of it. :roll:
-
Does anyone recognize this?
(http://jeremyinc.com/images/cow_dung_pie_crap_pooh_delivery.jpg)
Answer to come later........
here is a clue to help you: It rhymes with TS... 8-)
I know this sounds crazy but it reminds me of a rose. I don't see a face at all.
Hmm what could it be?
It now looks like the face of a black cat. The cat face reminds me of the Black Panther Dance Michael did after the music video Black or White. And that reminds me of all the symbols in the video.
your joking right? (http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/lachen/laughing-smiley-014.gif)
Yeah I know I'm not in my right mind. I am feeling like my comments are of no help. :cry:
-
If you don't agree with what's being discussed here then please be mature and leave the thread. :roll:
some of us are interested in what TS has to say, and we'd like to stay on and read that subject. Not your mocking of it. :roll:
Ok. Back to brown rectangles it is.........Carry on......Good luck.
I do think you will find more clues in that pile of cow manure though....... ;)
-
All these shopped images in pics are maybe a metaphor for the hoax. I see them, but I can't prove it. I had a conversation with my educated offspring once regarding everything hoax related from the ambo pic to TII doubles. Her reply to me was'I see what you're saying, but you can't prove any of this can you.' And she was right about that. Even though no one could persuade me that this is not a hoax, I don't have hard evidence that would stand up in a court of law. So TS, I'm waiting. I'd like to resume my conversation with her just to prove that mother always knows best.
-
ok if the focus is supposed to be on the paramedics why bring up the handle :? is that to say look at the details or to confuse ?
-
suspicious mind wrote:
so then why is ts preaching to the choir?
I am not sure if you meant Why is TS the one doing the preaching. I am going to respond to this though with some posts that show Why TS is preaching to us. There are lessons to be learned and TS has been from day one trying to teach us. There is alot of information in his posts that tell us WHY. It helps to review or read for the first time all of his previous updates, posts and reveals to get a better understanding. ;)
Peace
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=308964#p308964 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=308964#p308964)
TS_comments wrote:
In this process, I don’t want anyone to accept or reject what I present merely because of who presents it; as I have always said, go by the evidence itself—regardless of who presents it. And in fact, others should bring in evidence they have found (and indeed, many are doing this already in this thread, which is good); don’t just wait for me to explain everything.
To put it another way: I may challenge true theories, and/or I may lend support to false theories. In fact, I will usually have at least two different theories for each step. And as we follow the theories: we may find one hitting a dead end, while another flows nicely with no serious difficulties.
Most importantly, I want to inspire critical analysis; even more important than the subject itself, is how you approach it. Unfortunately, many hoax investigators have gone down the road of supporting the hoax with very flimsy evidence at best, and often just plain incorrect evidence. This type of approach does not help anyone; it only makes unbelievers ridicule us as crazy (well, maybe we are ). But seriously, we want to go by solid evidence that will challenge unbelievers, and perhaps even hold up in a court of law.
Critical investigation means to approach the subject as if you were trying to DISPROVE the hoax—not trying to come up with anything and everything imaginable to support the hoax (or supposedly support it). And if you TRY to disprove something, but can’t find any reasonable way around it, then you PROBABLY have some good solid evidence. Also, if you have at least two or more strong evidences pointing to the same conclusion, then that is most likely the truth. But it’s not a good idea to base any conclusion on only one piece of evidence, even if it seems to be a fairly strong point.
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309638#p309638 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309638#p309638)
TS_comments wrote:
As I said before, your METHOD or APPROACH to investigation is far more important than the ambulance photo or other parts of the hoax. Not merely for investigating this hoax, but for your own good in your entire life, these are extremely valuable skills--and this forum and thread give you an opportunity to learn and practice these skills in an environment that is friendly (or at least should be, and usually is). Part of the good investigation skills here, is learning how to critically examine things from the OPPOSITE perspective than your own belief (which in this case is the hoax). We have a term for people who are unwilling to look at or even consider things from somebody else's perspective, and that term is "prejudice"--and you already know what MJ thinks about prejudice.
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=311334#p311334 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=311334#p311334)
TS_comments wrote:
In the previous thread, I mentioned that it’s good to have at least two or more strong evidences pointing to the same conclusion; and we now have at least four strong points, indicating that the ambulance photo is fake—even after some (including me) have tried to play unbeliever, and debunk whatever we can. Here are those four strong points, with links to some of the evidence. People are still welcome to try and debunk them if they can; but please read at least the information in the links below, before trying to debunk them.
#1. Ben’s slip: “Chris, and the other people that were there that day and the other d---- and uhhh, and uhhh ----”
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&start=350#p309886; (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&start=350#p309886;) viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&start=600#p311109 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&start=600#p311109).
#2. In the video of the ambulance, the monitor/screen is clearly on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o-yZt7yERk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o-yZt7yERk). In the photo, the monitor/screen is not on viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310867&#p310867 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310867&#p310867).
#3. The shadows on the red car in the video do not match the shadows on the red car in the photo viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310880&#p310880; (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310880&#p310880;) viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310880&#p310901 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310880&#p310901).
#4. The paramedics did not recognize MJ; they said it looked like an old man, maybe a hospice patient http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/27/paramedic ... e-arrived/ (http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/27/paramedics-jackson-dead-when-we-arrived/) http://www.tmz.com/2011/01/11/michael-j ... ath-week1/ (http://www.tmz.com/2011/01/11/michael-jackson-doctor-conrad-murray-preliminary-hearing-trial-witness-propofol-death-week1/). This report of the paramedics does not fit with the face we see in the ambulance photo. If the paramedics are in on the hoax, and what they said was scripted: then the ambulance photo is fake, one way or another. And if the paramedics are not in on the hoax, then what they said was true—and does not fit with what we see in the ambulance photo, which would still mean that it is fake viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309760&#p309760 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309760&#p309760). Either way, then (paramedics in on it or not): the photo is fake; so the only question is what method was used to make the phony photo.
The first three of these four points listed above indicate that the photo was planned and staged in advance, rather than merely editing MJ’s face into a photo that was actually taken through the ambulance window on 6-25-09. This is why I started our investigation process with the ambulance photo; now we know that it was planned and staged in advance, so we have a good platform upon which we can build our next level of investigation.
Please remember to use common sense, in addition to forensic investigation and raw data analysis.
viewtopic.php?f=125&t=9891 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=125&t=9891)
TS wrote:
5-8. Zone for MJ Info
Another TMZ article, just a few days before, was titled: “Conrad Murray - Michael Was Alive at UCLA” http://www.tmz.com/2010/03/30/conrad-mu ... ful-death/ (http://www.tmz.com/2010/03/30/conrad-murray-michael-jackson-heart-ekg-paramedics-ucla-medical-center-wrongful-death/). Here again, if you accept the whole story, then forget the hoax; because the whole story is discussing when MJ died (at home, or UCLA)—it’s not discussing if MJ died.
Or you can connect the dots, and recognize that “Michael was alive” is the main clue—and much of the rest is unnamed or unverified “sources”. Anything that is not readily verifiable, and especially anything that is unnamed “sources”, should go straight in the garbage.
This is part of what Michael is trying to teach us. We are not to blindly trust tabloid media—or even mainstream media. Yet, just like TMZ, at times there is reliable and valuable information in the media.
For example, video interviews; it is very easy to fabricate false information in writing, but it is much harder to fabricate a video interview with someone. And even if someone did create a fake video interview (using a double, or a computer-generated image, etc): the real person would probably hear about it, and deny that it was really him.
And there are other methods to help establish what information is reliable. Twitter has a system of verifying celebrities; so a tweet from a verified account is most likely a reliable source. The Twitter for ALLJACK5ONS was not verified (it’s a group account); but we know it is reliable, because other verified accounts in the family have confirmed it.
Another type of fairly reliable information, is when the media (accidentally) says things which actually support the conspiracy view of things. For example, when local media initially reported bombs found in the Murrah Federal building on April 19, 1995, and then later the mainstream media said that there were no other bombs—we know that both stories are not reliable http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B4vbO67Bp4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B4vbO67Bp4).
Common sense tells us that the initial and local reports are reliable; but then the big guys came in and controlled the mass media, and overrode those initial reliable reports. This happened also with the JFK junior assassination, and many other cases such as 911, etc http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpb ... 30&p=27572 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=1930&p=27572).
The corrupt media expects us to believe that professionals found additional bombs in the Murrah building, got equipment and experts to deactivate these bombs, and then later they realized that there were no bombs in the building! Supposedly these professionals had been unable to tell the difference between a bomb and a grilled cheese sandwich—and they didn’t even catch their mistake, until they were trying to deactivate the sandwiches!!! Sorry, but I think that this story is the cheesy one; and the first reports from the local media are far more reliable.
And at this point, I should mention that as far as possible: TIAI Revealed, and the Updates, have used the above mentioned and similar types of reliable sources for information. So don’t accept something just because TIAI says it; but on the other hand, don’t fail to distinguish between reliable and unreliable sources and documentation. Rejecting reliable information isn’t much if any better (maybe worse) than accepting unreliable information. Some people believe everything (gullible), others believe nothing (stubborn); if we want the truth, we must find a balance between those extremes.
-
Do I remember we were out for a proof that would stand a trial? ...
Yes, Grace, that is exactly one of my reasons for posting this.
We do want to enjoy this investigation, and get some laughs now and then--and use our imagination, etc. However, we also need to be careful not to confuse the fun and imaginary with good solid evidence that will hold up in court.
Souza was right, I merely cropped the rectangle handle part of the Ambulance1.jpg
Are we SURE that the leaf-pattern is Photoshopped into the picture? Is there good, SOLID evidence that leaf-pattern overlaps the handle? Or could the mind be imagining a leaf-pattern overlap, just as others (who did not know the source of the cropped picture) saw several other things in it?
Here it is again.
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/S2NR.jpg)
Reading what TS wrote again and what Grace said, maybe we have to find how we can prove (with this rectangle pic) that the leaf pattern is photo-shopped...but we can't just do it by looking and saying 'it is photo-shopped because of this' or 'it isn't photo-shopped because of this'. We need evidence somehow such as comparing other things not just by using this photo or this image but by bringing in other things as well.
Anyone got any ideas?
-
Maybe the "other day" was night time...that's why there's a shadow of the paramedics arms, near the leaf pattern.... possibly caused by using a flash of the camera !!
The real video of the Ambulance backing out, was really hard to see, but it was what I didn't see that aroused my suspicion.
There is definitely lots of similar leaf patterns inside the front entrance of MJ's house. I believe this picture was taken before the ambulance even left the property...
People have said that there is a tunnel running from Elvis Presleys home, to Carolwood Dve...
Could it be possible that Elvis Presley actually died that day ??? MJ could have had him staying with him for a while while he was sick ???
-
[youtube:1cfmf6t6]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A09tRR6ppKQ&feature=player_embedded#at=32[/youtube:1cfmf6t6]
ok i am not sure where this video came into the thread or the relevance of what i think i see but it is bugging me. either i am seeing things or both of these paremedics have the same places ( beginning signs of vitaligo, as michael ) on their hands. look carefully when the one is holding the backboard at about 1;44 and then when they are going through the first aid kit. also when they are showing the blow up splint thing. have i started to see things where they are not. is vitaligo that common ? does this look like the same as we have seen pics of michaels hands or am i hoaxied. :? :oops: :lol: :(
-
Do I remember we were out for a proof that would stand a trial? ...
Yes, Grace, that is exactly one of my reasons for posting this.
We do want to enjoy this investigation, and get some laughs now and then--and use our imagination, etc. However, we also need to be careful not to confuse the fun and imaginary with good solid evidence that will hold up in court.
Souza was right, I merely cropped the rectangle handle part of the Ambulance1.jpg
Are we SURE that the leaf-pattern is Photoshopped into the picture? Is there good, SOLID evidence that leaf-pattern overlaps the handle? Or could the mind be imagining a leaf-pattern overlap, just as others (who did not know the source of the cropped picture) saw several other things in it?
Here it is again.
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/S2NR.jpg)
I think I get what you mean. When you look at the handle zoomed and pixeled like this, you see that it doesn't continue, that it doesn't overlap the transition from can door to handle.
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/S2NR.jpg)
But the leaf pattern isn't just one piece, so it doesn't have to be connected. When you zoom out a little, you see it's part of the leaf pattern, which get's darker when there is a darker background, like on the right side where it get's darker with the shadow behind it.
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/leaves04.jpg)
-
I don't get the people complaining in here that TS is playing games. TS never asked anyone to look if they see faces hidden anywhere, he asked if anyone coulf prove with this zoom, that the leaf pattern indeed overlaps. He is not talking BS, he is trying to make us come to a coherent theory with actual evidence. Telling non-believers that you see a face hidden in a shadow on the ambulance picture, doesn't convince anyone that MJ is still alive.
Besides that, if you don't like the discussion, simply skip it. You are calling BS without understanding what the purpose is.
-
I am clueless of details of ambulance photo discussion, but I got a question.
Who would bother to photoshop original ambulance picture overlapping leafs on the door handle? Where did we get those pictures? Source. Isn't it youtube? Maybe some people have re-uploaded and changed original picture or something like that? Cause if you search "Michael Jackson ambulance picture, or photos, or video" on youtube, so many of them out there.
-
I have a question. Could this picture have been taken at night or early dusk with a flash? That would be more likely to cause a reflection inside the ambulance.
Definitely an overlap of two photos...one of the ambulance, and one of the background scenery, have been overlapped to create this illusion, and help to coverup the original patient...
[youtube:1tgw5d8f]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDZyiUaQbOs&feature=player_embedded[/youtube:1tgw5d8f]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDZyiUaQbOs&feature=player_embedded
-
I don't get the people complaining in here that TS is playing games. TS never asked anyone to look if they see faces hidden anywhere, he asked if anyone coulf prove with this zoom, that the leaf pattern indeed overlaps. He is not talking BS, he is trying to make us come to a coherent theory with actual evidence. Telling non-believers that you see a face hidden in a shadow on the ambulance picture, doesn't convince anyone that MJ is still alive.
Besides that, if you don't like the discussion, simply skip it. You are calling BS without understanding what the purpose is.
dear dear dear souza i don't know if you are indicating me or not but since i did participate in the little bs segment if feel compelled to respond. i really don't think ts minds a little healthy scepticism. if he did he would have been gone a long time ago. besides if he is in earnest trying to teach us then he is trying to give us the tools with which to be a witness . (kind of like a preacher ;) ) .and if he knows anything about the bible then he surely knows about thomas ;) now this is the part that is gonna turn your crank, it is just my opinion but it seems part of the ongoing problem with the ts thing is that everytime someone questions you come to his defense. can you not see how that might raise a few questions in an area where some are already suspicious ? i hope you will consider what i am saying and not choose to react in a negative way.
now i have a question about this stuff that you might be able to answer. i am not techie , as i have confessed quite often :oops: when i look at the video from the fire station there is much reflection going on. at one point i was looking at it and stopping and starting throughtout. there was a point when the video segwayed from one part to another i happened to stop there , the images overlapped. now is it possible that someone could stop the video as i did and then do a what is it called screen shot and capture it as a still? and if that is the case could that mean that it was actually done with a video and not with the othere type of camera as it was supposed to be? after this i guess it would be best if i do avoid this thread as i don't really understand much of the technical stuff and only find it frustrating and perhaps i in turn frustrate others.
thanks for your time and i hope your patience . :D
-
I don't get the people complaining in here that TS is playing games. TS never asked anyone to look if they see faces hidden anywhere, he asked if anyone coulf prove with this zoom, that the leaf pattern indeed overlaps. He is not talking BS, he is trying to make us come to a coherent theory with actual evidence. Telling non-believers that you see a face hidden in a shadow on the ambulance picture, doesn't convince anyone that MJ is still alive.
Besides that, if you don't like the discussion, simply skip it. You are calling BS without understanding what the purpose is.
dear dear dear souza i don't know if you are indicating me or not but since i did participate in the little bs segment if feel compelled to respond. i really don't think ts minds a little healthy scepticism. if he did he would have been gone a long time ago. besides if he is in earnest trying to teach us then he is trying to give us the tools with which to be a witness . (kind of like a preacher ;) ) .and if he knows anything about the bible then he surely knows about thomas ;) now this is the part that is gonna turn your crank, it is just my opinion but it seems part of the ongoing problem with the ts thing is that everytime someone questions you come to his defense. can you not see how that might raise a few questions in an area where some are already suspicious ? i hope you will consider what i am saying and not choose to react in a negative way.
now i have a question about this stuff that you might be able to answer. i am not techie , as i have confessed quite often :oops: when i look at the video from the fire station there is much reflection going on. at one point i was looking at it and stopping and starting throughtout. there was a point when the video segwayed from one part to another i happened to stop there , the images overlapped. now is it possible that someone could stop the video as i did and then do a what is it called screen shot and capture it as a still? and if that is the case could that mean that it was actually done with a video and not with the othere type of camera as it was supposed to be? after this i guess it would be best if i do avoid this thread as i don't really understand much of the technical stuff and only find it frustrating and perhaps i in turn frustrate others.
thanks for your time and i hope your patience . :D
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :roll:
-
Wow!!...Well, in TS and Souza's defense I would have to say, it appears as though what readers and participants are looking for are just straight out answers. Just spelling it all out very directly and let’s get on to Michael jumping out in front of the cameras and saying "Well did we have fun here"?
But as I see it there are no easy answers in this thing. It is about Life and Death. And in a court of law they are going to throw things out there for the defense to answer such as ...do you recognize this, or have you seen this before and can you prove your statement. Those witnesses had better be prepared to give precise and direct evidence or someone goes to jail.
So if it appears that it is to Hot in here, this is a walk in the park compared to the real thing. As far as the pic of the cow manure, all I can say is Thank God you were not on Michael's defense team and part of the witness list in 2005. Patience and understanding is what it takes to uncover the truths here not sarcasm, frustration OR BS.
I would imagine if TS were to just throw it all down here today in front of everyone, there would be so many question thrown back at him and then he would still have to go through all these steps to try and give proof because that would be the next thing that people would be looking for. So I would think the logical way to handle it is to have everyone think through the proof which has many layers. And since TS has the answers and we don’t it would be better to just observe if you don’t have answers than to be critical of what is presented. I have been wrong about several ideas that I have had, but I am here to learn. Quick and easy answers will not be found.
Let’s do it with L.O.V.E.
PS. I am sure I may have offended some which is not the intent, but I love you anyway. These are my thoughts.
-
At this point I'm lost.
No graduation untill we solve the dark rectangle?
-
Does anyone recognize this?
(http://jeremyinc.com/images/cow_dung_pie_crap_pooh_delivery.jpg)
Answer to come later........
Here is a clue to help you: It rhymes with TS... 8-)
wait !!! i think i see a face in it !
And a leaf pattern.... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I hope the munching man isn't eating what's in that pic. :lol:
That thing is on speed. :lol:
if it rhymes with TS CAN IT BE BS? :lol: :lol:
-
At this point I'm lost.
No graduation untill we solve the dark rectangle?
I have to agree with you also, :? I am totally lost ;) :roll: :oops:
Such confusion dont it make you want to scream!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
-
At this point I'm lost.
No graduation untill we solve the dark rectangle?
I have to agree with you also, :? I am totally lost ;) :roll: :oops:
Such confusion dont it make you want to scream!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
YES IT DOES. for the love of God, I do not see anything, I just see a black long rectangle and that is it. They circled where the picture is in yellow, I cannot see it. I guess i am going coucou again. I guess I am the only one that cannot see it? it is getting me nervouse :x
-
I see nothing but a bit of shading on a dark grey rectangle. I think that's what you'd get whatever dark grey object you photographed and zoomed in on.
-
I think the leaf-pattern overlaps the handle. But I have no idea if this is good or bad :?
Oh, maybe this means that the leaf-pattern is part of a photo that was overlaped on another photo? Sorry, I am so tired :(
Maybe the leaf-pattern is nothing more than just the result of two or more photos layered one over another? This would make the leaf-pattern the proof that the ambulance photo is fake...?
-
Do I remember we were out for a proof that would stand a trial? ...
Yes, Grace, that is exactly one of my reasons for posting this.
We do want to enjoy this investigation, and get some laughs now and then--and use our imagination, etc. However, we also need to be careful not to confuse the fun and imaginary with good solid evidence that will hold up in court.
Souza was right, I merely cropped the rectangle handle part of the Ambulance1.jpg
Are we SURE that the leaf-pattern is Photoshopped into the picture? Is there good, SOLID evidence that leaf-pattern overlaps the handle? Or could the mind be imagining a leaf-pattern overlap, just as others (who did not know the source of the cropped picture) saw several other things in it?
Here it is again.
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/S2NR.jpg)
Reading what TS wrote again and what Grace said, maybe we have to find how we can prove (with this rectangle pic) that the leaf pattern is photo-shopped...but we can't just do it by looking and saying 'it is photo-shopped because of this' or 'it isn't photo-shopped because of this'. We need evidence somehow such as comparing other things not just by using this photo or this image but by bringing in other things as well.
Anyone got any ideas?
The picture I am about to mention, has interested me since I first saw the entire video of the ambulance at MJ's.
We ARE sure that the image is photoshopped. We only need to nail down the source of it.
:?: Question: Is the rectangle TS provided us right side up, or do we know if it needs to be rotated (right? left? what?)??
I don't know how to reproduce the video here, but it is named: "Fans And Media Outside Michael Jackson's House" on YouTube.
:idea: At the beginning, there is a SIGNIFICANT amount of time spent filming the windshield of a silver GMC SUV, as if "the director" is directing our focus to IT. I do see an image of "MJ on top" of this reflection--but I think I am REALLY starting to see "Waldo" EVERY where! :oops: :lol: :?
I have spent more time than I want to, for a while, examining this leaf pattern for similarities to the one photoshopped into the ambulance photo. I don't see any similarities.
But the windshield is the centerpiece of the shot for too long. There are police or other authorities in the photo, but they are not the focus, here. There MAY be something on this window leaf reflection, which places MJ on scene, and was what was used to photoshop into the other photo to prove he was there, alive.
There is nothing above or beside, in the vines and trees.
:idea: In addition to that, there is a vehicle passing by, in the lane closest to the camera filming, hiding the SUV just as the SUV begins to pull out of the drive. On the right front window of this passing car, is some more reflection, from the across the street from MJ's drive. I think I can see MJ's face in that reflection. It even looks like some of the leaf pattern on the EMT"s pants leg in the ambulance photo.This would place him alive in the vicinity that day, directly across the street, watching vehicles pull out, but what I can't explain is, why no one recognized him. The image is clear to me, at about :40.
I'm not certain if I even have the video we were discussing...sorry. But the day and the property in question and all the foiliage and reflections of the foliage are the same, eh?
I am "leafed out". :x Time to break and look at something fulfilling.... ;)
-
Is this the video @It's her? :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2NQJMm3mi4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2NQJMm3mi4)
[youtube:3054cdi5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2NQJMm3mi4[/youtube:3054cdi5]
-
Hey ItsHer:
things I noticed overall:
hollywood.tv (again)
squeaky gates
the numbers 19 and 21 on the Starline buses that went by
the trash is out
it says filmed on 07-03-09 and uploaded on Jul 4, 09
red car across the street.... similar looking
Good catch on this video for sure.... does anyone else think hollywood.tv is odd..like TMZ, they seem to have the right videos......
Blessings!
-
I still don't get it!!!!! T-W-E-N-T-Y E-I-G-H-T pages about pixel-details in an ambulance-picture which is obviously fake because Michael is about 20 years younger while he is lying there on the stretcher and all this theories about the leafpattern and a black rectangle. I'm so sorry guys but the next time, TS has to come up with something which is really worth time of discussing it.
Listen, if Michael is still alive, nobody cares about an ambulancepicture and I don't think that Michael himself wants to explain the relevance of his hoax by using a picture and how he had done it, people don't give a sh.. they will sure call him WACKO again (so sorry Michael), they want to hear WHY, not HOW. And if Michael really did pass away, nobody gives a d... about the ambulancepicture either. Not in court anyway. Because the court is about to decide who killed Michael Jackson, not about his ambulancepicture was fake or photoshopped. Because if they followed the news, they already know that the picture is fake.
We were told in the beginning to do research and to see the bigger picture, the why's of the hoax, not to buy a microscope to disect pictures. Sorry, I still don't get it!!
-
Maybe this is a psychological experiment...if we can see things that aren't there.
Don´t you see the couple making love under the bed? :o :o :o
-
Does anyone recognize this?
(http://jeremyinc.com/images/cow_dung_pie_crap_pooh_delivery.jpg)
Answer to come later........
Here is a clue to help you: It rhymes with TS... 8-)
wait !!! i think i see a face in it !
And a leaf pattern.... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HAHAHAHAHA HAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAAA HAHAHAHAHA HAAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAA
My gosh you 3 made me spit all the water through my nose (http://bbb.jeepininin.com/images/smilies/lmaosmiley.gif) (http://bbb.jeepininin.com/images/smilies/lmaosmiley.gif)
-
Back to the 4 pics presented:
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance1.jpg)
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance2.jpg)
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance3.jpg)
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance4.jpg)
Seems like every one has some type of pattern withing the image (near the drawer).
Could it be the reflection of the photographer?
Back to point zero!
-
Maybe this is a psychological experiment...if we can see things that aren't there.
Don´t you see the couple making love under the bed? :o :o :o
Come on you guys....I really want to see the next redirection ...if you don't solve the dark rectangle we're stuck with the leaf pattern forever :(
-
Back to the 4 pics presented:
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance1.jpg)
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance2.jpg)
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance3.jpg)
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance4.jpg)
Seems like every one has some type of pattern withing the image (near the drawer).
Could it be the reflection of the photographer?
Back to point zero!
No, because we already determined that the pattern disappears behind the arm of the EMT, so that means that it is not a reflection from something from the outside, because in that case the pattern would overlap the arm of the EMT.
-
I see the pattern overlapping the arm´s shadow on pic 4 Souza. Those pixels seem to take part of the shadow.
-
I don't get the people complaining in here that TS is playing games. TS never asked anyone to look if they see faces hidden anywhere, he asked if anyone coulf prove with this zoom, that the leaf pattern indeed overlaps. He is not talking BS, he is trying to make us come to a coherent theory with actual evidence. Telling non-believers that you see a face hidden in a shadow on the ambulance picture, doesn't convince anyone that MJ is still alive.
Besides that, if you don't like the discussion, simply skip it. You are calling BS without understanding what the purpose is.
dear dear dear souza i don't know if you are indicating me or not but since i did participate in the little bs segment if feel compelled to respond. i really don't think ts minds a little healthy scepticism. if he did he would have been gone a long time ago. besides if he is in earnest trying to teach us then he is trying to give us the tools with which to be a witness . (kind of like a preacher ;) ) .and if he knows anything about the bible then he surely knows about thomas ;) now this is the part that is gonna turn your crank, it is just my opinion but it seems part of the ongoing problem with the ts thing is that everytime someone questions you come to his defense. can you not see how that might raise a few questions in an area where some are already suspicious ? i hope you will consider what i am saying and not choose to react in a negative way.
I was talking in general, not anyone specific. Why does it bother people so much when I defend TS? I am simply pointing out that this thread has a purpose, and that is not posting that it is BS, but actually reading what TS says and come up with proof. Investigate and come up with back-up for your claims. If you don't understand or like it, then just skip it, like you would do with any other thread. Like everyone always says; why should TS get a different treatment? Why would he explain more or change subject just because people either don't understand or like it? Would you do the same in other threads? No, you just skip it.
I am very aware of the fact that TS can defend his own ass, but I know what it's like when people ridicule, misunderstand or attack you, and I also know that it's nice if someone steps up for you, even if you are very capable of doing that yourself. If anyone finds that suspicious, so be it. I'm not TS, I don't know TS and TS and I are not conspiring together to play with the hoaxers. People can either believe me when I say that, or keep suspicious and keep focussing on things that don't exsist instead of investigating the hoax. I don't care what people think, I'm way passed that.
And no, I am not mad and I do not feel offended, just trying to explain one more time why I do what I do and why I say what I say.
-
I see the pattern overlapping the arm´s shadow on pic 4 Souza. Those pixels seem to take part of the shadow.
My laptop seems to be unable to pixelate when I zoom, maybe my graphic card is responsible for that. Could you zoom and make a screenshot?
-
I see the pattern overlapping the arm´s shadow on pic 4 Souza. Those pixels seem to take part of the shadow.
My laptop seems to be unable to pixelate when I zoom, maybe my graphic card is responsible for that. Could you zoom and make a screenshot?
I could zoom 500% before my pc got stuck :evil:
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/Ambulance7.jpg)
-
IDK why comes so big :oops:
-
What I am re-posting is NOT in defense of TS but I am using TS's own words to explain to those who are questioning certain aspects of this part of investigating. Sometimes I do feel like a parrot. I feel like I keep repeating the same thing over and over. Ya know what though that is ok by me because I will sing like a parrot over and over until it is heard. I get how Michael must of felt when he kept repeating over and over the same things. The following information is about some of the why's for these threads and also there is a very long and detailed post by TS regarding the leaf pattern.
Side Note: I think that part of what TS is trying to show us now with his recent post is how easily we can see things that aren't there. Our minds do play tricks on us. I think he did it to help us realize that we can be influenced by others suggestions (opinions).
I have read on this forum how easily people lose their faith when something is reported in the news that is against the hoax. Many people sway back and forth from alive to dead at the first sign of a negative article or T.V. program/news. I think part of this lesson that TS is presenting to us is to help us when the trial begins. It is going to be a rollercoaster ride for some people's emotions IF they don't get it now that it is all fake yet real at the same time. The trial is happening because of corruption. The trial is happeneing because of lazyness on the part of people (investigators, District Attorney, etc) by not digging into the evidence and finding out it is B.S. 8-)
MY opinion of course not facts. ;)
Peace
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=308828#p308828 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=308828#p308828)
TS_comments wrote:
For those who are interested, enjoy the ride. For those who are getting tired of it all: the trial is coming soon, and then the truth.
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=308964#p308964 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=308964#p308964)
TS_comments wrote:
When the trial starts, I will not be doing very many redirects or comments. There will be plenty for you to investigate—especially since it will be televised; and I don’t want to take your time and attention from that. However, we have about a month left; let’s see how far we can get connecting the dots on the hows of the hoax (coming up with a good, solid, coherent theory).
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309086#p309063 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309086#p309063)
Here's what I found. The "leaf" pattern appears to go behind objects in the foreground in the pic twice. One time the image goes behind the paramedics arm, the second it goes behind the white cloth wee see. See here:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/fcfbec/PatternClose-upAmbulanceX.jpg)
This suggests that the image actually existed on the wall/box/side of ambulance interior.
I do concede that this could have been manipulated during the editing process.
But again the question the shopped theory begs is, why bother?
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309086#p309086 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309086#p309086)
The first thing I want to do with the leaf pattern, is show that it just plain can’t possibly be a reflection (or part of the background image).
Okay bec, this time I’m going to give you an “A” for awesome! You took the words out of my fingers (computer keyboard), and you even did the red circles so I don’t have to! Actually, I like it when others come up with the answers before I do. What you just pointed out is one of the strong points about the pattern—both that it is not a reflection, and also that it (probably) is not Photoshopped into the picture.
Notice especially inside the larger red circle: the pattern stops abruptly at the edge of the paramedic’s arm, it does not even fade out gradually—even though the arm at that point is almost as dark as the surrounding background. This indicates strongly that the pattern is actually inside the ambulance, farther away than the paramedic’s arm; and his arm blocks the light of that pattern. If it were a reflection, it would certainly continue to be seen at least somewhat on the edge of his arm—and only fade away in the lighter areas of his arm.
And there are a few other reasons why we may know for sure that this leaf pattern is not some kind of reflection. As I continue to discuss this, I will refer to the five pictures at the beginning of this thread; but I won’t keep posting them here, to save time and space. Instead, I will refer to them as: PatternClose-up, Ambulance1, Ambulance2, Ambulance3, and Ambulance4 (these names can also be found, using right-click and “Properties”).
The Ambulance1 picture has the strongest image of the red car and background, so let’s start by taking a close look at that picture. Notice the curb in front of the car; then notice the ground (and sunlight with shadows) between the curb and wall. The wall itself can’t be seen very much, because there is not much on the wall to be seen (refer again to the wall video, if needed). But you can see the top of the wall; it is a straight line from near the top left of the picture (a little below the paramedic’s patch), and ending a little lower on the right side of the picture (in the bright spot). Above that line, you can see again the ground above the wall (and a little more sunlight reflection).
Now that you have a good view of the entire background picture (and not just the car), notice that the leaf pattern is more than half as tall as the wall; so if it was an image on the wall, being reflected in the ambulance photo, we should easily see that large of an image on the video of that wall—but it’s not there! The wall in the video is almost completely blank.
However, there are some real leaves in the wall video; but they are connected to trees—not just hanging there in mid-space. Yet the leaf pattern in the ambulance photo is isolated, not connected to anything. To make it even clearer: notice again the line which is the top of the wall; it runs clear across the ambulance photo—not broken anywhere by a tree trunk, or even smaller branches. Also the leaves in the photo don’t seem to come close to the size or shape of the leaves in the wall video.
Last but certainly not least: we can eliminate the leaf pattern from being part of the background image, simply by comparing Ambulance1 with Ambulance2. Compare for example the headlight of the red car in the two pictures; the pointed left end is straight under MJ’s mouth in Ambulance1, but straight under the top of his forehead in Ambulance2. The background image has moved significantly to the right between the first and second picture; but the leaf pattern is in the same place.
Yes, a bit more of the leaf pattern goes behind the paramedic’s arm in Ambulance2; but this is a very slight difference, compared to how far the red car has moved. And if the leaf pattern is inside the ambulance (not a reflection): then this slight difference can easily occur from a slight movement in the paramedic’s arm, and/or a slightly different camera position. But if the leaf pattern were part of the background image, then there is no explanation for why it does not move to the right just as much as the red car moves to the right.
So we have three or four real strong reasons here, why the leaf pattern is not a reflection or part of the background image. Unless anyone can debunk these reasons, then we can move on to the next step: more detail on whether the leaf pattern is Photoshopped or not.
-
Imconvinced, I know how you feel...
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_osrVjnPbdEM/SyH_zwlN9LI/AAAAAAAARrA/oABgqjolbsM/s400/bald_parrot_1.jpg)
-
Does anyone recognize this?
(http://jeremyinc.com/images/cow_dung_pie_crap_pooh_delivery.jpg)
Answer to come later........
Here is a clue to help you: It rhymes with TS... 8-)
wait !!! i think i see a face in it !
And a leaf pattern.... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HAHAHAHAHA HAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAAA HAHAHAHAHA HAAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAA
My gosh you 3 made me spit all the water through my nose (http://bbb.jeepininin.com/images/smilies/lmaosmiley.gif) (http://bbb.jeepininin.com/images/smilies/lmaosmiley.gif)
But you guys are you really sure the picture above is BS really!! just for the sake of accuracy it could also be HORSE *S can look the same when you have a horse out on new spring grass .... just to give correctness and balance ;) its all for L.O.V.E. guys, and yes it really could be HS if you wanner discuss it :lol: :lol: :lol:
-
This is a discipline one and I am giving in my 2 cents, trying to put the bar a little bit higher each time I think it's time to take a breath.
TS, I did exercise traditional Taekwondo for a while. So I give you the credit of trying just a little bit harder despite being tired. For the better. For the love. For the patience. For the growth.
[attachment=1:35j2tjj3]TS_Ambulance1-4_1600_700.jpg[/attachment:35j2tjj3]
[attachment=0:35j2tjj3]TS_Ambulance1-4_part_1600_700.jpg[/attachment:35j2tjj3]
Methodology:
- enlarge to 1600%
- search about the same frame (first comparison - pixels matching more or less - the white being the cloth or glove just underneath the leaf pattern)
- compare 4 pictures at about same size, at about same frame, now more to the right to understand the impact of overlay or pixelation in the grey shades.
My conclusions:
The leaves have been shopped in picture 1, 3 and 4.
Whereas the pixels of the white cloth and the arm are relatively regular, those of the leaf pattern are not regular, giving big spots of grey shades where there should be regular patterns too.
The most accurate pixel pattern is the one of picture two - which was the ET Online version. The other three pictures have been brightened up in that area.
Changing light conditions during the take cannot be the reason - a Nikon D200 camera can do 5 frames per second. So the "bright" shadows were added after the takes.
In picture 2 the leaves are overlapping the arm, so it should be a reflection of a branch from the outside.
Why bother about the leaves?
Because those leaves in the "original" picture 2 would prove that the picture was taken in an area where laurel branches are to be found (I still stick to laurel) and because these leaves do have a meaning and had to be part of the picture.
Permission to leave the dojo?
-
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_osrVjnPbdEM/SyH_zwlN9LI/AAAAAAAARrA/oABgqjolbsM/s400/bald_parrot_) they did to this poor animal :?: :shock: :lol:
-
I do not see anything in that rectangle and I do not know what this topic is going to bring us BUT I'm sure that if this wasn't important, TS would have never asked us to think about it. And again I'm sure that he will explain it in details or direct us to find it ourselves what he is trying to show. It is so so sad to see some of you are having fun with TS and with this topic. You do not need to see anything there or you do not need to understand what this is all about. If you know what RESPECT means, and if you have respect to others who want to discuss and learn more what is behind this issue, then you wouldn't have posted shit pictures and laugh at it like 10 year old kids. I would expect you guys to be mature enough to skip this topic if you are not interested in it or think that this is just BS. But pls respect US who are interested in this issue and bring your ridiculous mocking to somewhere else.
-
I do not see anything in that rectangle and I do not know what this topic is going to bring us BUT I'm sure that if this wasn't important, TS would have never asked us to think about it. And again I'm sure that he will explain it in details or direct us to find it ourselves what he is trying to show. It is so so sad to see some of you are having fun with TS and with this topic. You do not need to see anything there or you do not need to understand what this is all about. If you know what RESPECT means, and if you have respect to others who want to discuss and learn more what is behind this issue, then you wouldn't have posted shit pictures and laugh at it like 10 year old kids. I would expect you guys to be mature enough to skip this topic if you are not interested in it or think that this is just BS. But pls respect US who are interested in this issue and bring your ridiculous mocking to somewhere else.
Hello Purelove and everybody!!!!!!
I know what you want to say but please try to understand that we are not perfect and we need some good laugh from time to time.It's almost two years and some of us are tired and maybe some good laugh is the way not to loose our minds,lol.
Michael likes to play around and to joke some time,so we are doing what maybe he would do in this situation,lol :lol:
.I follow this redirect every day and I would like to post here also, but his forum it's like a RABBIT HOLE.Even if one day would have 48 hours ,lol it will not be enough to answer to all posts .Some of us have families ,jobs and our own problems .Respect and Love it's all we need but some good laugh from time to time,also.
LOVE
-
Hello Purelove and everybody!!!!!!
I know what you want to say but please try to understand that we are not perfect and we need some good laugh from time to time.It's almost two years and some of us are tired and maybe some good laugh is the way not to loose our minds,lol.
Michael likes to play around and to joke some time,so we are doing what maybe he would do in this situation,lol :lol:
Sorry but I do not see anything to laugh in a shit picture. I do not find anything to laugh when people ridicule someone either. If the intention is to have fun, you can create a fun thread and laugh there. Is this the thread to post ridiculous pictures to ridicule TS and laugh at them like 10 year old kids? Is this what we are discussing here in this thread? Any of us is perfect but to know what RESPECT is, you do not need to be perfect.
-
I do not see anything in that rectangle and I do not know what this topic is going to bring us BUT I'm sure that if this wasn't important, TS would have never asked us to think about it. And again I'm sure that he will explain it in details or direct us to find it ourselves what he is trying to show. It is so so sad to see some of you are having fun with TS and with this topic. You do not need to see anything there or you do not need to understand what this is all about. If you know what RESPECT means, and if you have respect to others who want to discuss and learn more what is behind this issue, then you wouldn't have posted shit pictures and laugh at it like 10 year old kids. I would expect you guys to be mature enough to skip this topic if you are not interested in it or think that this is just BS. But pls respect US who are interested in this issue and bring your ridiculous mocking to somewhere else.
Hello Purelove and everybody!!!!!!
I know what you want to say but please try to understand that we are not perfect and we need some good laugh from time to time.It's almost two years and some of us are tired and maybe some good laugh is the way not to loose our minds,lol.
Michael likes to play around and to joke some time,so we are doing what maybe he would do in this situation,lol :lol:
.I follow this redirect every day and I would like to post here also, but his forum it's like a RABBIT HOLE.Even if one day would have 48 hours ,lol it will not be enough to answer to all posts .Some of us have families ,jobs and our own problems .Respect and Love it's all we need but some good laugh from time to time,also.
LOVE
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=15874 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=15874)
-
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_osrVjnPbdEM/SyH_zwlN9LI/AAAAAAAARrA/oABgqjolbsM/s400/bald_parrot_) they did to this poor animal :?: :shock: :lol:
:o :cry: :cry: :cry:
-
Hello Purelove and everybody!!!!!!
I know what you want to say but please try to understand that we are not perfect and we need some good laugh from time to time.It's almost two years and some of us are tired and maybe some good laugh is the way not to loose our minds,lol.
Michael likes to play around and to joke some time,so we are doing what maybe he would do in this situation,lol :lol:
Sorry but I do not see anything to laugh in a shit picture. I do not find anything to laugh when people ridicule someone either. If the intention is to have fun, you can create a fun thread and laugh there. Is this the thread to post ridiculous pictures to ridicule TS and laugh at them like 10 year old kids? Is this what we are discussing here in this thread? Any of us is perfect but to know what RESPECT is, you do not need to be perfect.
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=15874 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=15874)
Thank you Souza for posting the link of the Fun Thread. Some people need to bring their "Fun" out there I think.
-
I do not see anything in that rectangle and I do not know what this topic is going to bring us BUT I'm sure that if this wasn't important, TS would have never asked us to think about it. And again I'm sure that he will explain it in details or direct us to find it ourselves what he is trying to show. It is so so sad to see some of you are having fun with TS and with this topic. You do not need to see anything there or you do not need to understand what this is all about. If you know what RESPECT means, and if you have respect to others who want to discuss and learn more what is behind this issue, then you wouldn't have posted shit pictures and laugh at it like 10 year old kids. I would expect you guys to be mature enough to skip this topic if you are not interested in it or think that this is just BS. But pls respect US who are interested in this issue and bring your ridiculous mocking to somewhere else.
Hello Purelove and everybody!!!!!!
I know what you want to say but please try to understand that we are not perfect and we need some good laugh from time to time.It's almost two years and some of us are tired and maybe some good laugh is the way not to loose our minds,lol.
Michael likes to play around and to joke some time,so we are doing what maybe he would do in this situation,lol :lol:
.I follow this redirect every day and I would like to post here also, but his forum it's like a RABBIT HOLE.Even if one day would have 48 hours ,lol it will not be enough to answer to all posts .Some of us have families ,jobs and our own problems .Respect and Love it's all we need but some good laugh from time to time,also.
LOVE
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=15874 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=15874)
Very much appreciated Souza!
-
I'm so confused,............................................. . I hope that says TS
(http://www.emotik.com/emoticonos/10810_emoticonos-emotik_com.gif)
-
Do I remember we were out for a proof that would stand a trial? ...
Yes, Grace, that is exactly one of my reasons for posting this.
We do want to enjoy this investigation, and get some laughs now and then--and use our imagination, etc. However, we also need to be careful not to confuse the fun and imaginary with good solid evidence that will hold up in court.
Souza was right, I merely cropped the rectangle handle part of the Ambulance1.jpg
Are we SURE that the leaf-pattern is Photoshopped into the picture? Is there good, SOLID evidence that leaf-pattern overlaps the handle? Or could the mind be imagining a leaf-pattern overlap, just as others (who did not know the source of the cropped picture) saw several other things in it?
Here it is again.
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/S2NR.jpg)
Reading what TS wrote again and what Grace said, maybe we have to find how we can prove (with this rectangle pic) that the leaf pattern is photo-shopped...but we can't just do it by looking and saying 'it is photo-shopped because of this' or 'it isn't photo-shopped because of this'. We need evidence somehow such as comparing other things not just by using this photo or this image but by bringing in other things as well.
Anyone got any ideas?
The picture I am about to mention, has interested me since I first saw the entire video of the ambulance at MJ's.
We ARE sure that the image is photoshopped. We only need to nail down the source of it.
:?: Question: Is the rectangle TS provided us right side up, or do we know if it needs to be rotated (right? left? what?)??
I don't know how to reproduce the video here, but it is named: "Fans And Media Outside Michael Jackson's House" on YouTube.
:idea: At the beginning, there is a SIGNIFICANT amount of time spent filming the windshield of a silver GMC SUV, as if "the director" is directing our focus to IT. I do see an image of "MJ on top" of this reflection--but I think I am REALLY starting to see "Waldo" EVERY where! :oops: :lol: :?
I have spent more time than I want to, for a while, examining this leaf pattern for similarities to the one photoshopped into the ambulance photo. I don't see any similarities.
But the windshield is the centerpiece of the shot for too long. There are police or other authorities in the photo, but they are not the focus, here. There MAY be something on this window leaf reflection, which places MJ on scene, and was what was used to photoshop into the other photo to prove he was there, alive.
There is nothing above or beside, in the vines and trees.
:idea: In addition to that, there is a vehicle passing by, in the lane closest to the camera filming, hiding the SUV just as the SUV begins to pull out of the drive. On the right front window of this passing car, is some more reflection, from the across the street from MJ's drive. I think I can see MJ's face in that reflection. It even looks like some of the leaf pattern on the EMT"s pants leg in the ambulance photo.This would place him alive in the vicinity that day, directly across the street, watching vehicles pull out, but what I can't explain is, why no one recognized him. The image is clear to me, at about :40.
I'm not certain if I even have the video we were discussing...sorry. But the day and the property in question and all the foiliage and reflections of the foliage are the same, eh?
I am "leafed out". :x Time to break and look at something fulfilling.... ;)
Thanks Its her. The more we work together the closer we become and the quicker we can work this out. I know that I was part of the joke that was made and I feel bad personally so sorry to everyone who was taking this seriously (I was but just had a lapse in concentration) and finally sorry TS, your trying to teach us and I didn't give you the respect you deserved.
So about the rectangle, what have we figured out so far?
-
you guys want a good laugh ok i am gonna open myself up for you to have a whooping good time. i am almost embarrassed to ask this but could that rectangle be a piece of tape? :? :oops: :lol: :lol: :lol: i laugh first to make it easy for you.
-
you guys want a good laugh ok i am gonna open myself up for you to have a whooping good time. i am almost embarrassed to ask this but could that rectangle be a piece of tape? :? :oops: :lol: :lol: :lol: i laugh first to make it easy for you.
I'm past laughing on this thread to be honest. That rectangle could be anything, but TS said this: "Souza was right, I merely cropped the rectangle handle part of the Ambulance1.jpg"
But who knows, seeing as nothing he says is definitely the truth and this could just be more training for our minds in evidence collecting techniques.
-
you guys want a good laugh ok i am gonna open myself up for you to have a whooping good time. i am almost embarrassed to ask this but could that rectangle be a piece of tape? :? :oops: :lol: :lol: :lol: i laugh first to make it easy for you.
I'm past laughing on this thread to be honest. That rectangle could be anything, but TS said this: "Souza was right, I merely cropped the rectangle handle part of the Ambulance1.jpg"
But who knows, seeing as nothing he says is definitely the truth and this could just be more training for our minds in evidence collecting techniques.
It really is the handle cropped, zoom the ambulance picture at that point and compare it, it's identical.
-
It really is the handle cropped, zoom the ambulance picture at that point and compare it, it's identical.
I don't know how to do that.
-
At this point I'm lost.
No graduation untill we solve the dark rectangle?
I have to agree with you also, :? I am totally lost ;) :roll: :oops:
Such confusion dont it make you want to scream!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
YES IT DOES. for the love of God, I do not see anything, I just see a black long rectangle and that is it. They circled where the picture is in yellow, I cannot see it. I guess i am going coucou again. I guess I am the only one that cannot see it? it is getting me nervouse :x
You are not alone, I am here with you :) because I DO NOT SEE ANYTHING IN THAT RECTANGLE OR YELLOW CIRCLE EITHER. I'm glad I have you not seeing because I thought I was needing new contacts and I just paid $300. for a year supply of this script. :) Why don't we let them figure out what it is that we can't see ?
-
you guys want a good laugh ok i am gonna open myself up for you to have a whooping good time. i am almost embarrassed to ask this but could that rectangle be a piece of tape? :? :oops: :lol: :lol: :lol: i laugh first to make it easy for you.
I'm past laughing on this thread to be honest. That rectangle could be anything, but TS said this: "Souza was right, I merely cropped the rectangle handle part of the Ambulance1.jpg"
But who knows, seeing as nothing he says is definitely the truth and this could just be more training for our minds in evidence collecting techniques.
well if the record could stand any further clearing up as far as the crack about seeing faces in the poo poo i have seen a few faces in things myself so i was making fun of my self as much as anything. as far as the rectangle if he said what it was why are we still looking at it? :? don't get it.
-
Hello Purelove and everybody!!!!!!
I know what you want to say but please try to understand that we are not perfect and we need some good laugh from time to time.It's almost two years and some of us are tired and maybe some good laugh is the way not to loose our minds,lol.
Michael likes to play around and to joke some time,so we are doing what maybe he would do in this situation,lol :lol:
Sorry but I do not see anything to laugh in a shit picture. I do not find anything to laugh when people ridicule someone either. If the intention is to have fun, you can create a fun thread and laugh there. Is this the thread to post ridiculous pictures to ridicule TS and laugh at them like 10 year old kids? Is this what we are discussing here in this thread? Any of us is perfect but to know what RESPECT is, you do not need to be perfect.
I agree 100% :roll: :roll: I don't feel like flipping through pages of nonsense to get to the actual investigation about this topic. The original post was about the ambulance, paramedics, etc. Not a bunch of immature, disrespectful people ridiculing others just because they don't agree with what's being discussed. :roll:
The point of the rectangle was to try provide proof that would either support the face/leaf-pattern being photoshopped or not photoshopped, depending on whether it overlapped the handle or not. TS said this... :roll:
If you don't like this topic, then just skip it! & go to this one: viewtopic.php?f=60&t=18198 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=18198)
Thanks. :)
-
I still don't get it!!!!! T-W-E-N-T-Y E-I-G-H-T pages about pixel-details in an ambulance-picture which is obviously fake because Michael is about 20 years younger while he is lying there on the stretcher and all this theories about the leafpattern and a black rectangle. I'm so sorry guys but the next time, TS has to come up with something which is really worth time of discussing it.
Listen, if Michael is still alive, nobody cares about an ambulancepicture and I don't think that Michael himself wants to explain the relevance of his hoax by using a picture and how he had done it, people don't give a sh.. they will sure call him WACKO again (so sorry Michael), they want to hear WHY, not HOW. And if Michael really did pass away, nobody gives a d... about the ambulancepicture either. Not in court anyway. Because the court is about to decide who killed Michael Jackson, not about his ambulancepicture was fake or photoshopped. Because if they followed the news, they already know that the picture is fake.
We were told in the beginning to do research and to see the bigger picture, the why's of the hoax, not to buy a microscope to disect pictures. Sorry, I still don't get it!!
[color=#4000B]You sound just like the posts I've been making. I feel like we are here to group together with others who believe this is a hoax and not dissect it because it is all just opinion and not provable. And even if it is, so what? What do we do with it?? What does it prove that we don't already believe? Is it to convince nonbelievers? Won't Michael do that? I just think we are losing our minds and time in our lives trying to figure out what Michael has given up 2 years of his life to hide. I will stay with you all and jump in, but really, what is the hopeful outcome?[/color]
-
I'm trying to connect the dots here.
So far in this thread the main points have been:
-the paramedics, in on it or not / ambulance photo
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance1.jpg)
- the FBI's involvement (although not the whole org, just a trusted few (?))
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ-_e5wI-v7XNhHAEkOecwDEhwLOAs7ozTI5c7U3GxCvN7a3NjGkw)
- and the cropped rectangle from the ambulance pic:
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/S2NR.jpg)
That rectangle reminds me of a domino...A domino effect?
"The domino effect is a chain reaction that occurs when a small change causes a similar change nearby, which then will cause another similar change, and so on in linear sequence. The term is best known as a mechanical effect, and is used as an analogy to a falling row of dominoes. It typically refers to a linked sequence of events where the time between successive events is relatively small. It can be used literally (an observed series of actual collisions) or metaphorically (causal linkages within systems such as global finance or politics)." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domino_effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domino_effect)
That wiki article links to another that caught my eye, on mathematical induction, since this hoax seems very much to be number based, which also connects with the FBI. (333 on 12/21).
"Mathematical induction is a method of mathematical proof typically used to establish that a given statement is true of all natural numbers. It is done by proving that the first statement in the infinite sequence of statements is true, and then proving that if any one statement in the infinite sequence of statements is true, then so is the next one....mathematical induction is a form of rigorous deductive reasoning." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_induction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_induction)
And this is the photo with the above wiki link to describe mathematical induction:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/92/Dominoeffect.png/220px-Dominoeffect.png)
And then there's the domino scene in V for Vendetta, when V literally sets up a ton of dominos for them to fall as he's been planning. V, who planned his vengeance for 20 years. And Chief Inspector Finch's speech in that dominoes scene, "I suddenly had this feeling that everything was connected. It was like I could see the whole thing. One long chain of events that stretched all the way back before Larkhill. I felt like I could see everything that had happened and everything that was going to happen. It was like a perfect pattern laid out in front of me and I realized that we were all a part of it and all trapped by it."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxQX9fYf ... re=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxQX9fYf2aI&feature=related) --Sorry for just the link, I literally could not find one with this scene that would embed on here. Watch it though, it's really cool! Years and years of V's planning finally coming together and happening as he intended. And V is left with one domino still standing...
And speaking of connecting the dots...
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQvKS6W6x2_jFbAr6hFLDk9eiUjvnTIU7H0ramI4sIqgWtOgsqTOw)
-
I think this was mentioned before but there is the leaves that you can see on the handle so does that mean it's photo-shopped or real...also I thought this thread was about the paramedics so does the rectangle somehow tie into all of that.
-
I'm not sure about the pixilated brown rectangle or door handle but when I see it, I see layering, which is an operational term for me in this hoax. Layer, upon layer, upon layer. Did someone once mention at least 7 layers regarding the total hoax? Well, that would be manageable at least. I hope it's not 111 layers! :shock:
With the brown rectangle, I think of 3D, I guess because it's been zoomed in and out alot. I see an image composition. Why would a solid image be so incredibly pixilated like that? I know nothing about photography... But, I do know that an image composition means it was easier to manipulate the image than to shoot conventionally "on location" or in a studio. I'm not sure it would've been easy to have shot this scene "the other d..(ay)
I mean, our governments can "wag the dog" and have us believe whatever they want us to believe with "live" pictures! Certainly, an image could be manipulated for a death hoax.
ILLUSION. And Michael is the Majestic Magician.
And, maybe some of us who are toddlers when discussing photography, could be involved and work on something else with you all? Another aspect of the image, perhaps?
Actually, I thought this thread was to discuss whether the paramedics were real, in on the hoax, or not and this is how the discussion about the FBI came up. I could probably be more useful on that part of the assembly line...
TS wrote:
The next level means that we are now going to shift the focus from the ambulance picture (whether it was real or fake, etc) to whether or not some or all of the paramedics are in on the hoax. Did the actual paramedics pose for a staged ambulance shot before 6-25-09? Or did MJ use actors dressed like paramedics? Was the ambulance photo staged with the actual #71 LAFD ambulance, or another one that looks about the same inside? Would the real paramedics publicly deny the ambulance photo, if it was not them in the picture (and they were not in on the hoax)?
These and similar questions are now the focus of investigation. Yes, we have already discussed these things to some extent; but it has not been the focus before now. You may continue discussing the ambulance photo, if you want; and please keep that discussion in the proper thread {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053}.
...When it’s time to graduate again, I will start another thread with the focus of who or what (if anything) went to the hospital on the stretcher in the ambulance. We might need to discuss this a little now, but it’s not the focus yet; so let’s see what we can establish about the paramedics, before we focus on that aspect.
[/size]
That said, the dominoe affect makes sense: meaning, everything's connected no matter how you look at it. You have to understand whether the photo was shopped or not to know whether some or all of the paramedics are in on the hoax. And you have to have some discussion about whether the body is real, not real, or non-existent, to confirm our ideas about the paramedics. And this is related, or makes clearer, the whole grand scheme of things, the reason(s) for the hoax. Sometimes answers and theories aren't coherent until we step out of a linear paradigm. Thus, going from A to B to C doesn't mean a more orderly or logical conclusion, necessarily. If I knew more about C, I might be able to have a better sense or solid reasoning of B even if I fully understand A. A different vantage point. Depth perception.
If at all possible, I would love right now to talk a little about the "what, if anything,went to the hospital on the stretcher in the ambulance." The face in the ambo pic looks waxy to me, especially around the cheek. And, I know it's been said before months ago, that the mouth tube is not affixed properly -- it doesn't cover the mouth. If we could discuss this a little more now, perhaps the paramedics being real or not will be easier to surmise and I personally will feel less "pixilated" :) ...[/color]
-
I have a question regarding the ambulance..
Why are there so many cars parked in the foyer area anyhow ??? Why didn't the bodyguards move their cars as the paramedics were working on MJ upstairs? Where is this caravan or whatever that the bodyguards were living in?
And why are the bodyguards dressed in suits when they weren't working that morning?? CM is in a trackpants ???
How did the ambulance get in there in the first place, if there were too many cars blocking it????????
Things that make you go Hmmmmmmmm.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuXRaJFd ... dded#at=18 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuXRaJFdmKU&feature=player_embedded#at=18)
[youtube:2fuxvm81]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuXRaJFdmKU&feature=player_embedded#at=18[/youtube:2fuxvm81]
-
Interesting approach about the domino..... I like it, especially because it's related to V for Vendetta, but I think it's a little too much fantasy in it though.....
-
Is this the video @It's her? :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2NQJMm3mi4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2NQJMm3mi4)
[youtube:1jqpat5v]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2NQJMm3mi4[/youtube:1jqpat5v]
Yes, it is! Thank you for putting it up. I have the wrong day, don't I? I think this was after the day the ambulance was there... :oops: ! But, well, the leaves would have still been the same ones which could have been snapped the 25th or "the other d(ay)..." eh?
-
Thanks Its her. The more we work together the closer we become and the quicker we can work this out. I know that I was part of the joke that was made and I feel bad personally so sorry to everyone who was taking this seriously (I was but just had a lapse in concentration) and finally sorry TS, your trying to teach us and I didn't give you the respect you deserved.
So about the rectangle, what have we figured out so far?
Nothing. :? And don't fret one little bit about so called "disrespect" !
HEY---When the Cat's away, the mice will play. :roll: It would be disrespectful if the Teacher were still in the room, to have balled up paper fly like a meteor shower :lol: :P ,
but he stepped out again for a moment. Some peoples' minds wander when they are tired of serious and concentrated study. And we ARE studying hard, at things we've NEVER had to study. We are not machines. I thought this run of one liners was hysterical... :!:
Now, straighten up, kids---I think Teacher/Scholar is coming back soon. ;) :lol:
-
Thanks Its her. The more we work together the closer we become and the quicker we can work this out. I know that I was part of the joke that was made and I feel bad personally so sorry to everyone who was taking this seriously (I was but just had a lapse in concentration) and finally sorry TS, your trying to teach us and I didn't give you the respect you deserved.
So about the rectangle, what have we figured out so far?
Nothing. :? And don't fret one little bit about so called "disrespect" !
HEY---When the Cat's away, the mice will play. :roll: It would be disrespectful if the Teacher were still in the room, to have balled up paper fly like a meteor shower :lol: :P ,
but he stepped out again for a moment. Some peoples' minds wander when they are tired of serious and concentrated study. And we ARE studying hard, at things we've NEVER had to study. We are not machines. I thought this run of one liners was hysterical... :!:
Now, straighten up, kids---I think Teacher/Scholar is coming back soon. ;) :lol:
I hope TS dont find us disrespectful in anyway, this has been a very long journey with many twists and turns and tunnels.
I totally respect everyone one of you especially TS and Michael, I am here everyday and I read this thread a few times aday, I dont comment much cause I find it VERY :? but it is a big learning curve for everyone, I have learned much since July 2009.
LOVE TO ALL :P
-
Thanks Its her. The more we work together the closer we become and the quicker we can work this out. I know that I was part of the joke that was made and I feel bad personally so sorry to everyone who was taking this seriously (I was but just had a lapse in concentration) and finally sorry TS, your trying to teach us and I didn't give you the respect you deserved.
So about the rectangle, what have we figured out so far?
Nothing. :? And don't fret one little bit about so called "disrespect" !
HEY---When the Cat's away, the mice will play. :roll: It would be disrespectful if the Teacher were still in the room, to have balled up paper fly like a meteor shower :lol: :P ,
but he stepped out again for a moment. Some peoples' minds wander when they are tired of serious and concentrated study. And we ARE studying hard, at things we've NEVER had to study. We are not machines. I thought this run of one liners was hysterical... :!:
Now, straighten up, kids---I think Teacher/Scholar is coming back soon. ;) :lol:
Thanks It's her...you've helped me to refresh my mind :)
-
Just wondering...
Do you think the cabinet from the pictures match the cabinet from the video? Wouldn't that white border show up in the pictures?
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12209)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12208)
Good catch! I'm glad somebody noticed this--it is one of the "secrets" that I have been planning on pointing out, if nobody found it. But I'm always glad when someone else finds it first. There is one more thing about this that I will include later, if nobody else gets it first.
TS, I was wondering what the other one more thing you were going to include. Did you write it to us already or someone else has found it or are you waiting for the ambulance research/discussion to end?
So far, I haven't seen anyone find the other thing on this. I'll give it a few more days for someone else to find it.
Can you at least give us help in the right direction...it's hard to know what were looking for when we have nothing to go on. :)
Back on topic ...
I am now going to say that the staged photo was done in the same LAFD #71 ambulance--there were not two different ambulances. In fact, why would they need a different ambulance (rented or otherwise), if the FBI was working directly with LAFD station #71?
The answer to the above pictures can be found in this video {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A09tRR6ppKQ}.
Here is another stray thought. I noticed in some of the interior ambulance pix, the "handles" to the cabinet drawers have some kind of a "lip" at the very bottom of the pull. I don't see this kind of a protrusion on the pull which TS magnified for us. This could mean that some 3D detail of the real article in the base picture was erased and shopped over with the "leaf " pattern...but the more I look at these handles the more I see other things, like them being all silver, no "lip", not black, etc, so whatever, :? :P just a thought. :roll:
I mean, the rectangle TS gave us, seems to be more of a flat multi-pixelated image, not a magnified 3D handle image. So something was painted over the original picture of the handle/pull, I think...understand? :?
-
I blew up the handle and see overlap of "leaf" on the handle. Now what that means is lost on me.
-
What about some music and reminding Michael that we love him so much :D ?
I love you Michael, alive or dead, and I miss your beautiful smile and I think the world has no right to go on without you.
OK.....I don't know about you all but now I feel better :D
-
Just wondering...
Do you think the cabinet from the pictures match the cabinet from the video? Wouldn't that white border show up in the pictures?
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12209)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12208)
Good catch! I'm glad somebody noticed this--it is one of the "secrets" that I have been planning on pointing out, if nobody found it. But I'm always glad when someone else finds it first. There is one more thing about this that I will include later, if nobody else gets it first.
TS, I was wondering what the other one more thing you were going to include. Did you write it to us already or someone else has found it or are you waiting for the ambulance research/discussion to end?
So far, I haven't seen anyone find the other thing on this. I'll give it a few more days for someone else to find it.
Can you at least give us help in the right direction...it's hard to know what were looking for when we have nothing to go on. :)
Back on topic ...
I am now going to say that the staged photo was done in the same LAFD #71 ambulance--there were not two different ambulances. In fact, why would they need a different ambulance (rented or otherwise), if the FBI was working directly with LAFD station #71?
The answer to the above pictures can be found in this video {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A09tRR6ppKQ}.
Hi TS,
this is the first time I read any of your posts. So your attitude to this hoax is new to me. I didn't even know that you send your posts right here, I thought Souza and Mo just copy them from thisisalsoit.com. It was also a surprise to me that you are a normal member here, I mean that you post many times within a thread, answering questions.
What I don't get is that if you are this accessible, and not such a mystery guy who I thought you were, then why don't you simply tell us what you think/discovered? Why do you want us to find those things out, like it was a game? Also, why don't you post in other threads?
-
[center:2g179bdj](http://icons.iconarchive.com/icons/icons-land/vista-multimedia/256/Play-Mode-Repeat-All-Hot-icon.png)[/center:2g179bdj]
Because TS didn't 'discover' things, he knows things and he wants us to think for ourselves, use our brain and find it ourselves, instead of spoon feeding us like the media does.
-
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/S2NR.jpg)
(http://emoticonos.smilchat.net/smileys/moyens3d3/3dpleure.gif)
-
Interesting approach about the domino..... I like it, especially because it's related to V for Vendetta, but I think it's a little too much fantasy in it though.....
My ex used to say that I live in a fantasy world... :lol: :? :lol:
What I was getting at was I think everything TS has been talking about, from the beginning, is all connected. From all the re-directs to the latest threads on the ambulance photo, the paramedics and the FBI and the rectangle (domino?). We've been seeing the "coincidences" all over the place and many of us feel that they are in fact connected. So Michael, metaphorically speaking, has all the dominoes lined up and is waiting for the moment where he flicks his finger to knock them all down - the chain of events that will either lead to the BAM, or result from the BAM.
-
My conclusions:
The leaves have been shopped in picture 1, 3 and 4.
[..]
In picture 2 the leaves are overlapping the arm, so it should be a reflection of a branch from the outside.
That´s what I also thought. A reflection, but not branches. May be the cameraman.
Why bother about the leaves?
Because those leaves in the "original" picture 2 would prove that the picture was taken in an area where laurel branches are to be found (I still stick to laurel) and because these leaves do have a meaning and had to be part of the picture.
Permission to leave the dojo?
What is the meaning of those leaves according to you, Grace?, could the pic be taken somewhere else where bay leaves hangs out?
-
I do not see anything in that rectangle and I do not know what this topic is going to bring us BUT I'm sure that if this wasn't important, TS would have never asked us to think about it. And again I'm sure that he will explain it in details or direct us to find it ourselves what he is trying to show. It is so so sad to see some of you are having fun with TS and with this topic. You do not need to see anything there or you do not need to understand what this is all about. If you know what RESPECT means, and if you have respect to others who want to discuss and learn more what is behind this issue, then you wouldn't have posted shit pictures and laugh at it like 10 year old kids. I would expect you guys to be mature enough to skip this topic if you are not interested in it or think that this is just BS. But pls respect US who are interested in this issue and bring your ridiculous mocking to somewhere else.
Respect should not be confused with tolerance ;) and, nothing wrong with laughing with the pics and comments posted btw. All was said in a context after 20+ pages.
"laugh at it like 10 year old kids", "I would expect you guys to be mature enough", being judgemental again aren´t we? :lol:
-
well if the record could stand any further clearing up as far as the crack about seeing faces in the poo poo i have seen a few faces in things myself so i was making fun of my self as much as anything.
That´s what we all did (bolded in black) :lol:
as far as the rectangle if he said what it was why are we still looking at it? :? don't get it.
Imo, that rectangle has an overlapping pattern, for example, in this 2 pics, the rectangle looks like having those pixels/ patterns on top in one of them but gone in the other. IDK if this can be achieved by increasing the light in the pic.
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance2.jpg)
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance3.jpg)
If the same pixels apply to every rectangle, then the reactangle has not been manipulated.
Am I explaining this right? :oops:
-
:lol:
[attachment=0:2mg6bb93]Murrayleaves.jpg[/attachment:2mg6bb93]
-
Murray's shorts leaves are an opposite pattern and the ambulance leaves are an alternate pattern. Not the same.
-
To solve the leaf pattern I need the expertise of Dr. John Hochman! :lol:
(Dr Hochman described Janet Arvizo as "delusional" in his report)
Ok, ok...back to topic..again...
The next level means that we are now going to shift the focus from the ambulance picture (whether it was real or fake, etc) to whether or not some or all of the paramedics are in on the hoax. Did the actual paramedics pose for a staged ambulance shot before 6-25-09? Or did MJ use actors dressed like paramedics? Was the ambulance photo staged with the actual #71 LAFD ambulance, or another one that looks about the same inside? Would the real paramedics publicly deny the ambulance photo, if it was not them in the picture (and they were not in on the hoax)?
These and similar questions are now the focus of investigation.
Of course the ambulance photo is part of the evidence related to the paramedics, so the photo will still be discussed somewhat in this thread; but try to remember the focus of discussion in this thread. When it’s time to graduate again, I will start another thread with the focus of who or what (if anything) went to the hospital on the stretcher in the ambulance. We might need to discuss this a little now, but it’s not the focus yet; so let’s see what we can establish about the paramedics, before we focus on that aspect.
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185#p311334 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185#p311334)
Well after reading the pages, still no idea if the paramedics are in the hoax.
-
Murray's shorts leaves are an opposite pattern and the ambulance leaves are an alternate pattern. Not the same.
I wasn't serious with that, just injecting some humor to lift everyone's spirits and energy. ;)
-
Murray's shorts leaves are an opposite pattern and the ambulance leaves are an alternate pattern. Not the same.
I wasn't serious with that, just injecting some humor to lift everyone's spirits and energy. ;)
Hello SeeingClues!!!!
Please be carefull with that HUMOR,lol its not alowed here.All we are alowed to do is work,work and work 24/7 and a break or some laugh is frobidden here.Now take care.
LOVE
-
:lol:
[attachment=0:2oiejpdf]Murrayleaves.jpg[/attachment:2oiejpdf]
:o :shock: to heck with the pattern on murry's shorts look at his legs ! is that not vitaligo?
does it neccesarily take all of the color out?
-
Murray's shorts leaves are an opposite pattern and the ambulance leaves are an alternate pattern. Not the same.
I wasn't serious with that, just injecting some humor to lift everyone's spirits and energy. ;)
Hello SeeingClues!!!!
Please be carefull with that HUMOR,lol its not alowed here.All we are alowed to do is work,work and work 24/7 and a break or some laugh is frobidden here.Now take care.
LOVE
Hello there! Yes, and I said injecting humor is important as the stressed mind isn't the most efficiently thinking mind; or should I say injecting the word is important as now TMZ has an article about Arnie Klein injecting MJ. :shock: :lol:
ok, I'll let everyone get back to the topic at hand which is the paramedics.
-
Let's admit it it's very entertaining :D ... well I have no clue were we're at now. I just notice that the more you zoom in the leaf pattern area the less you see that it overlaps the handle and on the contrary the more you zoom out the more you see that it overlaps the handle, i know it's very simple but maybe it's enough to say that the leaf pattern is photoshopped? TS asked if we were 100% sure...it just reminds me of that part of the leaf pattern:
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/PatternClose-upAmbulanceX.jpg)
We concluded that it was behind without extra zooming but just with the naked eye, why not with the handle then? :? TS where are you? No more secrets to share? :cry: :P
-
Murray's shorts leaves are an opposite pattern and the ambulance leaves are an alternate pattern. Not the same.
I wasn't serious with that, just injecting some humor to lift everyone's spirits and energy. ;)
Hello SeeingClues!!!!
Please be carefull with that HUMOR,lol its not alowed here.All we are alowed to do is work,work and work 24/7 and a break or some laugh is frobidden here.Now take care.
LOVE
Hi Applehead250609! You little nut :D , you beat me to it! :lol: :lol: I was going to say, "Beware, humor is not allowed, too childish". I like yours better! ;)
@SeeingClues, even if it was a joke, I did see those leaves on Dr.M.'s pants. Just that one little part, though. I actually looked for more of the material, to see if the guy was wearing pants with the guy's whole face who he supposedly killed(! :shock: )
The rest of that material was some hibiscus design. But the weird thing was that one of the pictures someone had snapped of him had leaves in it, all over the place, even a big palm leaf thrown over a towel! So, maybe, not so funny, maybe he is LEAVING clues, too.... ;)
:o
-
Murray's shorts leaves are an opposite pattern and the ambulance leaves are an alternate pattern. Not the same.
I wasn't serious with that, just injecting some humor to lift everyone's spirits and energy. ;)
Hello SeeingClues!!!!
Please be carefull with that HUMOR,lol its not alowed here.All we are alowed to do is work,work and work 24/7 and a break or some laugh is frobidden here.Now take care.
LOVE
Hi Applehead250609! You little nut :D , you beat me to it! :lol: :lol: I was going to say, "Beware, humor is not allowed, too childish". I like yours better! ;)
@SeeingClues, even if it was a joke, I did see those leaves on Dr.M.'s pants. Just that one little part, though. I actually looked for more of the material, to see if the guy was wearing pants with the guy's whole face who he supposedly killed(! :shock: )
The rest of that material was some hibiscus design. But the weird thing was that one of the pictures someone had snapped of him had leaves in it, all over the place, even a big palm leaf thrown over a towel! So, maybe, not so funny, maybe he is LEAVING clues, too.... ;)
:o
Humor is fine, laughing is fine, ridicule and simply posting stuff in a thread because you don't like the subject is not. Learn to see the difference in things, not everything is black and white.
-
DREAMSandTRUTH wrote:
Hi TS,
this is the first time I read any of your posts. So your attitude to this hoax is new to me. I didn't even know that you send your posts right here, I thought Souza and Mo just copy them from thisisalsoit.com. It was also a surprise to me that you are a normal member here, I mean that you post many times within a thread, answering questions.
What I don't get is that if you are this accessible, and not such a mystery guy who I thought you were, then why don't you simply tell us what you think/discovered? Why do you want us to find those things out, like it was a game? Also, why don't you post in other threads?
Because TS didn't 'discover' things, he knows things and he wants us to think for ourselves, use our brain and find it ourselves, instead of spoon feeding us like the media does.
There are many smart people all over the world, also in this forum. Personally I use my brain a long time ago. And the media cannot control me easily either.
I know that it's a big problem in the world that the media uses it's powers in many negative ways, also spoon feeding those people who they can.
But inside the forum I don't think we need someone who wants to teach us to think, like we would be four years olds, mostly because it seems to me that TS wants to do just the same what the media does: spoon feeding us. He is telling us what to focus on? What is this if not spoon feeding?
TS wrote: "The next level means that we are now going to shift the focus from the ambulance picture (whether it was real or fake, etc) to whether or not some or all of the paramedics are in on the hoax."
What I really like in this forum is that we work together, we are a good team.
And if someone who knows things wants to help us could easily be here as an absolutely normal member. He/she could tell/suggest us what we can know about the hoax and we would only think that he/she is just a good "investigator", that he/she has good eyes for certain things. He/she could also pretend that he/she is not one person but several, so we would think that there are several smart members here. (Like it was said many times that maybe even Michael is a member here too.) So we wouldn't start to suspect if he/she doesn't want it. If he/she finds it so important to teach us how to use our brains, he/she could write his posts in a way like "there is something fishy here, what do you guys think?"
IMO this would be a proper way to help us to find out the truth finally, and at the same time not to debunk Michael if it's too early.
Anyway, this is just one possibility to help us and Michael - but the way TS is helping us is suspicious for me and antipathetic.
And last but not least:
TS wrote: "Finally, just like last time, I may play “DA” (devil's advocate)—and try to debunk things that are true, just to keep you on your toes! Enjoy the ride!!"
Does TS think this hoax is some kind of game we enjoy???
We try hard to believe that Michael is not dead, and we would really like to know the truth but at the same time to keep Michael safe. It is very hard for us. Just look around: real Michael Jackson fans are very frustrated and do not "enjoy this ride". At least this is what I see.
-
@DreamsandTruth.....very well said and respectfully written. Those are my thoughts exactly. I am very frustrated.
-
DREAMSandTRUTH wrote:
Hi TS,
this is the first time I read any of your posts. So your attitude to this hoax is new to me. I didn't even know that you send your posts right here, I thought Souza and Mo just copy them from thisisalsoit.com. It was also a surprise to me that you are a normal member here, I mean that you post many times within a thread, answering questions.
What I don't get is that if you are this accessible, and not such a mystery guy who I thought you were, then why don't you simply tell us what you think/discovered? Why do you want us to find those things out, like it was a game? Also, why don't you post in other threads?
Because TS didn't 'discover' things, he knows things and he wants us to think for ourselves, use our brain and find it ourselves, instead of spoon feeding us like the media does.
There are many smart people all over the world, also in this forum. Personally I use my brain a long time ago. And the media cannot control me easily either.
I know that it's a big problem in the world that the media uses it's powers in many negative ways, also spoon feeding those people who they can.
But inside the forum I don't think we need someone who wants to teach us to think, like we would be four years olds, mostly because it seems to me that TS wants to do just the same what the media does: spoon feeding us. He is telling us what to focus on? What is this if not spoon feeding?
TS wrote: "The next level means that we are now going to shift the focus from the ambulance picture (whether it was real or fake, etc) to whether or not some or all of the paramedics are in on the hoax."
What I really like in this forum is that we work together, we are a good team.
And if someone who knows things wants to help us could easily be here as an absolutely normal member. He/she could tell/suggest us what we can know about the hoax and we would only think that he/she is just a good "investigator", that he/she has good eyes for certain things. He/she could also pretend that he/she is not one person but several, so we would think that there are several smart members here. (Like it was said many times that maybe even Michael is a member here too.) So we wouldn't start to suspect if he/she doesn't want it. If he/she finds it so important to teach us how to use our brains, he/she could write his posts in a way like "there is something fishy here, what do you guys think?"
IMO this would be a proper way to help us to find out the truth finally, and at the same time not to debunk Michael if it's too early.
Anyway, this is just one possibility to help us and Michael - but the way TS is helping us is suspicious for me and antipathetic.
And last but not not least:
TS wrote: "Finally, just like last time, I may play “DA” (devil's advocate)—and try to debunk things that are true, just to keep you on your toes! Enjoy the ride!!"
Does TS think this hoax is some kind of game we enjoy???
We try hard to believe that Michael is not dead, and we would really like to know the truth but at the same time to keep Michael safe. It is very hard for us. Just look around: real Michael Jackson fans are very frustrated and do not "enjoy this ride". At least this is what I see.
well i certainly hope not too many of us are in on it because it doesn't seem like there are many of us left. droppin' like flies around here.
and not only am i seeing faces every where it seems like every pic i see any more someone has vitaligo :lol:
-
@DreamsandTruth.....very well said and respectfully written. Those are my thoughts exactly. I am very frustrated.
We are a great group here, a big family, sharing our feelings with each other, and helping each other a lot - not just in connection with the hoax, which is beautiful.
And as there is always something good in bad things too: our frustration helps us a lot to use our brain much harder, and to be this nice to each other here - because we are in the same shoes, and it's easier together. Still hard, but much easier. Both mentally and spiritually.
Thank you for your kind post, anewfan! I was a little worried that I couldn't be respectful enough, mainly because I haven't read more posts from TS. But I was shocked by his attitude, and I just had to tell it.
What I'm worried about a little is that maybe TS is using the old political trick: by telling us what to focus on now, he/she distracts us from those things we should really deal with.
-
well i certainly hope not too many of us are in on it because it doesn't seem like there are many of us left. droppin' like flies around here.
and not only am i seeing faces every where it seems like every pic i see any more someone has vitaligo :lol:
Well, a good family like ours also helps when someone has a mental problem, so don't you worry suspicious mind! :lol:
-
well i certainly hope not too many of us are in on it because it doesn't seem like there are many of us left. droppin' like flies around here.
and not only am i seeing faces every where it seems like every pic i see any more someone has vitaligo :lol:
Well, a good family like ours also helps when someone has a mental problem, so don't you worry suspicious mind! :lol:
does this mean you will come visit me when they finally put me in that rubber room :|
-
Murray's shorts leaves are an opposite pattern and the ambulance leaves are an alternate pattern. Not the same.
I wasn't serious with that, just injecting some humor to lift everyone's spirits and energy. ;)
Wrong thread in that case.
Nice to see you again however, SC. It's been too long.
-
@DreamsandTruth.....very well said and respectfully written. Those are my thoughts exactly. I am very frustrated.
We are a great group here, a big family, sharing our feelings with each other, and helping each other a lot - not just in connection with the hoax, which is beautiful.
And as there is always something good in bad things too: our frustration helps us a lot to use our brain much harder, and to be this nice to each other here - because we are in the same shoes, and it's easier together. Still hard, but much easier. Both mentally and spiritually.
Thank you for your kind post, anewfan! I was a little worried that I couldn't be respectful enough, mainly because I haven't read more posts from TS. But I was shocked by his attitude, and I just had to tell it.
What I'm worried about a little is that maybe TS is using the old political trick: by telling us what to focus on now, he/she distracts us from those things we should really deal with.
I am very frustrated too but I disagree with the bolded portion. TS has no power that you or me don't give to him. So pay attention if you want, or go research some other aspect of the hoax. There's something in this for everyone, it's multifaceted, the hoax has always been that way.
It's much like a non-linear, open world video game. You're plunked down into an environment at the beginning of a story. What path you chose to get to the ending is totally up to you. It plays a lot like Dead Rising, where the game length is a predetermined number of days. When the clock runs out, the game is over, and you will get an ending of some sort. If you complete all the objectives, you'll get the best possible ending, Ending A. If you miss certain parts you'll get Ending B, C, D, etc through Ending H. No matter what, the end, and the truth, will be revealed according to it's own timeline.
So the way I see it, TS is one aspect of the hoax. You can do the TS thing, you can forum hop, you can chat crawl, you can blog surf, you can do 100% independent research, or you can do any combination thereof... it doesn't matter what we, you and I and everyone, do. It's Michael's hoax and it doesn't need us to figure it out for it to be revealed. The end will come even if we do nothing but sit on the couch and wait for it.
It's the waiting that is making me frustrated btw, not TS.
-
Maybe it's not even a handle...maybe the 'handle' is photo-shopped in too. If you look at the handle it looks flat (which I remember someone saying) not 2D and aren't handles usually the other way around.
-
ok i am not sure about where else to ask this question. where does the idea come from that i have heard from time to time that michael frequently went to the hospital. was it supposed to be in this same manner? is it a truth or tablied? any answers here?
-
ok i am not sure about where else to ask this question. where does the idea come from that i have heard from time to time that michael frequently went to the hospital. was it supposed to be in this same manner? is it a truth or tablied? any answers here?
that was said by Ben E., especially was ODD when he added when Michael did not want to give concert, he would go to hospital, and LMP on Oprah.
-
Remark: I am getting tired also because we are not focussing on a subject but chatting about this and that. I thought we wanted to keep this thread clean? Too many of the posts have nothing to do with the subject and our objectives. There's other threads for chatting.
Peace. We need some discipline or we will not get anywhere.
Agreed?
Remark finished.
The leaves cover the handle and the arm - but this is not clearly visible in each pic.
The leaves cover the handle of the ambulance closet and the arm of the paramedic.
The leaves have been identified by TS as the wreath leaves in the badge of FBI.
A handle may be a pseudonym used in a communication system.
A handle may be a grip attached to an object for using or moving the object, such as a door handle.
The handle and the arm of the paramedic are real objects, even if several layers may have been used to compose the final pictures.
The above opens for the interpretation that FBI may be covering up an activity of opening closed doors via use of "pseudos" where real paramedics and a real ambulance have been called to the house.
TMZ offered us in addition Michael with a police officer badge and they were entertaining the fate of the casket being influenced by a S.W.A.T. operation.
-
What if the reflection is coming from inside the ambulance, not outside.??
For example, clothing someone is wearing with glitter, or from a belt or FBI badge...or even a jacket like this would cause some sort of reflection if the light is on in the ambulance.
(oops sorry Grace, we must be on the same wavelength..I just saw your post ;) )
-
The leaves have been identified by TS as the wreath leaves in the badge of FBI.
Please can you point me to where he said this? I know it was suggested by others but I apparently missed where he confirmed it.
-
Respect should not be confused with tolerance ;) and, nothing wrong with laughing with the pics and comments posted btw. All was said in a context after 20+ pages.
"laugh at it like 10 year old kids", "I would expect you guys to be mature enough", being judgemental again aren´t we? :lol:
Sorry but I do not see anything to laugh in a shit picture. I do not find anything to laugh when people ridicule someone either. If the intention is to have fun, you can create a fun thread and laugh there. Is this the thread to post ridiculous pictures to ridicule TS and laugh at them like 10 year old kids? Is this what we are discussing here in this thread? Any of us is perfect but to know what RESPECT is, you do not need to be perfect.
I agree with respect should not be confused with tolerance. But I see nothing to tolerance when people post shit pictures and call TS as The Shit. I do not understand your sense of humor about this but this is definitely disrespectful for TS and for the ones who want to stick with this topic and discuss about it. It has nothing to do with the tolerance. We can laugh and have fun and there is already a thread for this that Souza gave the link of. This thread is not a place to post shit pictures and ridicule TS. And yes, I find it very childish when people keep on laughing at a shit picture ON THIS THREAD and ridicule TS with stupid names! And I would be appreciated if you stop telling me that I'm judgemental as you judge my opinion about this "fun" subject.
-
Remark: I am getting tired also because we are not focussing on a subject but chatting about this and that. I thought we wanted to keep this thread clean? Too many of the posts have nothing to do with the subject and our objectives. There's other threads for chatting.
Peace. We need some discipline or we will not get anywhere.
Agreed?
Remark finished.
Very well said Grace.
-
The leaves have been identified by TS as the wreath leaves in the badge of FBI.
Please can you point me to where he said this? I know it was suggested by others but I apparently missed where he confirmed it.
Actually it was Souza who wrote about the wreath leaves in the badge of FBI. TS didn't approve or deny it.
-
What if the reflection is coming from inside the ambulance, not outside.??
For example, clothing someone is wearing with glitter, or from a belt or FBI badge...or even a jacket like this would cause some sort of reflection if the light is on in the ambulance.
(oops sorry Grace, we must be on the same wavelength..I just saw your post ;) )
Yes, but if the reflection was coming from the inside like a reflection of a glittered shirt, wouldn't it look like a bright light reflection instead of a dark shadow look of the leaves? I mean, wouldn't it look bright if it was a reflection of something glittered?
-
For those who are frustrated about TS or think He's playing games, please open a thread here: viewforum.php?f=127 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewforum.php?f=127) so others can continue the on topic discussion.
Thank you.
-
ok i just tried to make this ( the photo of the arm area )bigger to look at the badge which no doubt someone already has somewhere. but anyway when i did suddenly it looked like the stretcher was very far away from the ambulance wall . is that just an trick of the eye or what?
-
I haven’t seen TS post any responses yet, and I pray to God that he doesn’t get totally fed up with the BS brought in here. I am continually amazed at the attitudes here. Everyone is getting tired of this ride?! REALLY YOU ARE GETTING TIRED!! OMG!! That statement tells me that there are those that have no clue after all the months upon months of posting and redirects, what is really going on here.
Michael Joe Jackson’s life is at stake, he is fighting for his life and that of the worlds and you say you are tired of the game and the RIDE is not FUN anymore. God be with us! I don’t even know where to go with that other than heaven help. There are many other website that think this is a game, and waiting for Michael to jump back on the stage and do concerts. Maybe those sites would be a little more entertaining for you. Because this forum thread is about facts and research, not to amuse people. I find it really sad that people take Michael’s life so blasé. If it were the other way around and your life depended on the truth being found and understood, would you appreciate such a cavalier attitude of boredom from your team of support. My guess would be NO! Why not just go ahead on with life and wait until Michael comes back and then you can ask him for all the answers, if you really believe it is him and that he is telling the truth. My guess would be many will question on that day, but I am sure Michael will have everything spelled out by that time as in TS.
So why have this attitude in here, like TS owes anyone anything to do with Michael. I don’t see that a single member of this forum is a victim of TS, so why play such. TS must very close in spirit with Michael to have to patience of a saint to deal with this ridicule. If you feel you are being diverted why are you here. There are a vast array of theories out there, and I am sure you could find on that suites you. I mean that is how the media plays it. Whatever sounds good for that day.
This site is one of the most widely known sites on the internet, and I am sure the guest that come in to watch and review, find some of these comments to be what is most amusing, and that is why they are dropping out of here, because of the constant ridicule. As long as TS was posting something that gave hope, EVERYONE just loved it. But now that he is trying to show us how we can be manipulated by the press , the media, the government, the banking system, when the heat is turned up and it gets rough around the edges, all the complaints start rolling out.
Well there is a old saying…”If you can’t run with the big dogs, stay on the porch” That way those that are interested in exploring clues and learning the system, will be able to do so without all the piles of BS that float around. Those of us that want to learn greatly apologize to the ones who are skilled and seasoned at CSI and CIA, and FBI investigations and that already know everything and are just in here for a good story. Not everyone considers the information given to us by TS, telling us how to think, but rather giving us the material to look at and think with that are of importance. Maybe not to everyone, but just because you don’t see the importance doesn’t mean it isn’t. These people that Michael had to face don’t think like you and I. They are so eat up with evil, their minds function in a whole different realm than what most are familiar with. So this plan is very complex, and although most would like answers in a condensed easy to read format, you are setting yourself up for disappointment.
I just pray TS does not give up on those of us who care to see how this unravels and how to uncover lies.
I am sure many will disagree and not like what I have to say, but at this point I really don’t care. Respect is a two way street and there are those of us who appreciate what is being presented here, so if you want respect Give it.
Love is unconditional and I do love each and everyone even if you don’t agree. But I am ready to move forward and uncover more lies because the tentacle on this Monster is far reaching. God Bless you all.
-
@navibl: God Bless you too dear :D
-
I haven’t seen TS post any responses yet, and I pray to God that he doesn’t get totally fed up with the BS brought in here. I am continually amazed at the attitudes here. Everyone is getting tired of this ride?! REALLY YOU ARE GETTING TIRED!! OMG!! That statement tells me that there are those that have no clue after all the months upon months of posting and redirects, what is really going on here.
Michael Joe Jackson’s life is at stake, he is fighting for his life and that of the worlds and you say you are tired of the game and the RIDE is not FUN anymore. God be with us! I don’t even know where to go with that other than heaven help. There are many other website that think this is a game, and waiting for Michael to jump back on the stage and do concerts. Maybe those sites would be a little more entertaining for you. Because this forum thread is about facts and research, not to amuse people. I find it really sad that people take Michael’s life so blasé. If it were the other way around and your life depended on the truth being found and understood, would you appreciate such a cavalier attitude of boredom from your team of support. My guess would be NO! Why not just go ahead on with life and wait until Michael comes back and then you can ask him for all the answers, if you really believe it is him and that he is telling the truth. My guess would be many will question on that day, but I am sure Michael will have everything spelled out by that time as in TS.
So why have this attitude in here, like TS owes anyone anything to do with Michael. I don’t see that a single member of this forum is a victim of TS, so why play such. TS must very close in spirit with Michael to have to patience of a saint to deal with this ridicule. If you feel you are being diverted why are you here. There are a vast array of theories out there, and I am sure you could find on that suites you. I mean that is how the media plays it. Whatever sounds good for that day.
This site is one of the most widely known sites on the internet, and I am sure the guest that come in to watch and review, find some of these comments to be what is most amusing, and that is why they are dropping out of here, because of the constant ridicule. As long as TS was posting something that gave hope, EVERYONE just loved it. But now that he is trying to show us how we can be manipulated by the press , the media, the government, the banking system, when the heat is turned up and it gets rough around the edges, all the complaints start rolling out.
Well there is a old saying…”If you can’t run with the big dogs, stay on the porch” That way those that are interested in exploring clues and learning the system, will be able to do so without all the piles of BS that float around. Those of us that want to learn greatly apologize to the ones who are skilled and seasoned at CSI and CIA, and FBI investigations and that already know everything and are just in here for a good story. Not everyone considers the information given to us by TS, telling us how to think, but rather giving us the material to look at and think with that are of importance. Maybe not to everyone, but just because you don’t see the importance doesn’t mean it isn’t. These people that Michael had to face don’t think like you and I. They are so eat up with evil, their minds function in a whole different realm than what most are familiar with. So this plan is very complex, and although most would like answers in a condensed easy to read format, you are setting yourself up for disappointment.
I just pray TS does not give up on those of us who care to see how this unravels and how to uncover lies.
I am sure many will disagree and not like what I have to say, but at this point I really don’t care. Respect is a two way street and there are those of us who appreciate what is being presented here, so if you want respect Give it.
Love is unconditional and I do love each and everyone even if you don’t agree. But I am ready to move forward and uncover more lies because the tentacle on this Monster is far reaching. God Bless you all.
Amazing post Navibl. I can not believe people behave like we are exaggerating this issue but they called TS as The Shit! How can this be about confusing tolerance and respect?!? Where is respect here? What happened to "This is all for LOVE"? Where is the love? Are you having fun and ridiculing TS for the LOVE? It is interesting to see how people can say and write "It's all for love " so easily but do not show it with their attitudes! Totally agree with you and I do believe that TS didn't make a new post because he is expecting this post to be cleaned up by all the mess and ridicule. And I do hope he didn't give up on the ones who still care for him and care to find out about the rest of the story. God bless you for this amazing post.
-
Back to the 4 pics presented:
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance1.jpg)
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance2.jpg)
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance3.jpg)
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance4.jpg)
Seems like every one has some type of pattern withing the image (near the drawer).
Could it be the reflection of the photographer?
Back to point zero!
When you compare the 4 pics you will notice that no one is as sharp as the other one. It´s seen best at this sign the left paramedic wears on his arm. In 1 or 2 pics it´´s kind of wishy-washy, in another pic it´s quite clear to be seen.
Same with the "leaf pattern" at the left side of this arm. In one pic ( the one with the sharpest sign ) the pattern is not to be seen with the naked eye.
My idea is: could this "pattern" be just dirt or a water pattern on the window, as you get it when you wipe a window?
Just a thought, it came into my mind as I wiped my car window this morning and in the sunlight I could see a shadow like this on my window.
I hope you get what I mean.
I didn´t post for a few days because I hoped this exhausting discussion about fun to be ended.
Dear friends, PLEASE could we stop it now, although I´d like to read everyone´s opinion about it and I´d love to continue laughing my head off because it´s refreshing.
But as Souza already wrote, it´s better to join other threads with personal things.
If you write down your opinion somewhere, maybe you could show here where to find it? This would save space in this topic, and the ones who want to know can easily find it.
Love&peace!
-
I think TS is pretty tough. When you are in a position like he is, I am sure he expects a little of all of the above. We will here from him again, he hasn't given up. As for the rectangle. As I said before, I can't see what all of you see as my computer is VERY old. I am lucky I can even turn it on. Reading your descriptions and then observing just a black rectangle on my computer. I thought of this, everyone's brain works in a different way....I know mine is usually way out of wack! We can all look at the same picture and are brain will process the "image" differently. Could this just be a lesson of the minds? To see what we all see and interpret? Like the media, they would throw a lie out there about Michael and the world would interpret it in so many ways? Good, Bad, indifferent. Maybe this is just a learning experience, a lesson to see how we SEE things. Take care, Love To All :P
-
I think TS is pretty tough. When you are in a position like he is, I am sure he expects a little of all of the above. We will here from him again, he hasn't given up. As for the rectangle. As I said before, I can't see what all of you see as my computer is VERY old. I am lucky I can even turn it on. Reading your descriptions and then observing just a black rectangle on my computer. I thought of this, everyone's brain works in a different way....I know mine is usually way out of wack! We can all look at the same picture and are brain will process the "image" differently. Could this just be a lesson of the minds? To see what we all see and interpret? Like the media, they would throw a lie out there about Michael and the world would interpret it in so many ways? Good, Bad, indifferent. Maybe this is just a learning experience, a lesson to see how we SEE things. Take care, Love To All :P
You make a very valid point, yes we all see things in a different way ;) I think it is all a matter of perseption on the many reflections which are in these 4 photographs. I have not a clue how to manipulate a photograph in this way, I am from the early days of the "box" camera and roll of film, this is way to complicated how things can be "adjusted" in this way.
I think TS is still watching and waiting for the right moment to comment, but we havent reached the correct timeline yet ;) JMO
Let us all work together on this project and try to create some harmony.
Love and peace my dear MJFAM
:P
-
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=750#p315990 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=750#p315990)
Well said navibl!! (http://www.allemoticons.com/Avatars/clap2.gif)
I guess it's to be expected. I'm sure every leader who has had a vision has been subject to ridicule (even those who really mean well can end up in this category). Every leader has had people trying to sabotage their efforts. Every leader has had people who supported their vision but weren't as invested as they were. Every leader has had supporters who didn't have as heavy a weight of responsibility on their shoulders or realized the seriousness in their vision. Every leader has been blessed to have some faithful, loyal and invested comrades willing to bear the same ridicule as the leader. That's life. Just know we all have a role. Romans 8:28 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=romans%208:28&version=KJV)
Navibl, thank you for standing for what you believe in.
Thank you TS for being willing to bear the ridicule for the realization of the vision.
Back to the investigation! (http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww173/prestonjjrtr/Smileys/sherlock.gif)
-
Well said navibl, my thoughts exactly.....
-
Ijustcantstoplovingu I agree with you. I am of the days of the box camera and roll film too. I am excited that I can copy and paste and use smiley faces! Sort of!
I think TS is still watching and waiting for the right moment to comment, but we havent reached the correct timeline yet ;) JMO
One thing is for sure this hoax is totally about timing. Take care, LOVE TO ALL
-
If the photo was fabricated the other day, prior to June 25th, how they inserted the reflection of the outside image, with the red car, in it? The red car was there the other day too?
Why bother to place the red car there both days, June 25th and the other day? Why couldn't they just fake a pic without the red car in it?
As about the leaf-pattern - I give up. I don't think it is a reflection but I don't know how it got there and what it means.
Maybe it's just some dirt on that cabinet.
-
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=750#p315990 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=750#p315990)
Well said navibl!! (http://www.allemoticons.com/Avatars/clap2.gif)
I guess it's to be expected. I'm sure every leader who has had a vision has been subject to ridicule (even those who really mean well can end up in this category). Every leader has had people trying to sabotage their efforts. Every leader has had people who supported their vision but weren't as invested as they were. Every leader has had supporters who didn't have as heavy a weight of responsibility on their shoulders or realized the seriousness in their vision. Every leader has been blessed to have some faithful, loyal and invested comrades willing to bear the same ridicule as the leader. That's life. Just know we all have a role. Romans 8:28 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=romans%208:28&version=KJV)
Navibl, thank you for standing for what you believe in.
Thank you TS for being willing to bear the ridicule for the realization of the vision.
Back to the investigation! (http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww173/prestonjjrtr/Smileys/sherlock.gif)
Well said guys, Navibl that post ROCKED girl! We've been asked to look at this stuff again for a reason, not just as a teacher would keep students occupied with busy work in between lessons, but for a real reason. We've all been going out of our minds trying to decipher the hows and whys ever since the beginning, now we're being guided to the answers and people are getting bored because it's not instantaneous. Boo-hoo. If there's one thing we should have all learned by now it's to have patience and have faith. As for the photos, I think we've possibly missed something which when pointed out to us will seem so glaringly obvious we'll be kicking ourselves. Don't know why, I just get that feeling. Sometimes you can't see the wood for the trees as they say. I for one am going to come at it with a completely new approach and pretend I haven't seen the photos countless times before, maybe the fresh perspective will help. Whatever the eventual outcome, I won't consider it a pointless exercise or wasted time, because it's a learning curve. Just like this whole experience.
-
Where is TS? :?
Maybe he or she is attending something about Elizabeth Taylor's death? :?
-
well i certainly hope not too many of us are in on it because it doesn't seem like there are many of us left. droppin' like flies around here.
and not only am i seeing faces every where it seems like every pic i see any more someone has vitaligo :lol:
Well, a good family like ours also helps when someone has a mental problem, so don't you worry suspicious mind! :lol:
does this mean you will come visit me when they finally put me in that rubber room :|
I intend to help you before they would put you there. Prevention is always better.
-
Whatt? Liz died?! Ohhhhhhhh
-
@DreamsandTruth.....very well said and respectfully written. Those are my thoughts exactly. I am very frustrated.
We are a great group here, a big family, sharing our feelings with each other, and helping each other a lot - not just in connection with the hoax, which is beautiful.
And as there is always something good in bad things too: our frustration helps us a lot to use our brain much harder, and to be this nice to each other here - because we are in the same shoes, and it's easier together. Still hard, but much easier. Both mentally and spiritually.
Thank you for your kind post, anewfan! I was a little worried that I couldn't be respectful enough, mainly because I haven't read more posts from TS. But I was shocked by his attitude, and I just had to tell it.
What I'm worried about a little is that maybe TS is using the old political trick: by telling us what to focus on now, he/she distracts us from those things we should really deal with.
I am very frustrated too but I disagree with the bolded portion. TS has no power that you or me don't give to him. So pay attention if you want, or go research some other aspect of the hoax. There's something in this for everyone, it's multifaceted, the hoax has always been that way.
It's much like a non-linear, open world video game. You're plunked down into an environment at the beginning of a story. What path you chose to get to the ending is totally up to you. It plays a lot like Dead Rising, where the game length is a predetermined number of days. When the clock runs out, the game is over, and you will get an ending of some sort. If you complete all the objectives, you'll get the best possible ending, Ending A. If you miss certain parts you'll get Ending B, C, D, etc through Ending H. No matter what, the end, and the truth, will be revealed according to it's own timeline.
So the way I see it, TS is one aspect of the hoax. You can do the TS thing, you can forum hop, you can chat crawl, you can blog surf, you can do 100% independent research, or you can do any combination thereof... it doesn't matter what we, you and I and everyone, do. It's Michael's hoax and it doesn't need us to figure it out for it to be revealed. The end will come even if we do nothing but sit on the couch and wait for it.
It's the waiting that is making me frustrated btw, not TS.
I absolutely agree with you bec, I didnt mean that TS has power over us. What I wanted to say is that maybe this is his intention. I found people here much smarter than to fell for TS's distraction if this is really what he/she wants. I know that everyone here follows several kind of threads.
"It's the waiting that is making me frustrated btw, not TS." - Yes I thought it's the waiting. This is what I think makes everyone frustrated... and the suspense/doubtfulness. Because there is at least a little in every of us, I think. We don't KNOW what is happening, we are just guessing... We don't see the whole picture.
-
For those who are frustrated about TS or think He's playing games, please open a thread here: viewforum.php?f=127 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewforum.php?f=127) so others can continue the on topic discussion.
Thank you.
Okay, and sorry for the last one, I answered as I read the posts one after the other.
-
Where is TS? :?
Maybe he or she is attending something about Elizabeth Taylor's death? :?
Now i see TS joined the forum on March 20 last time :? ....strange, he/she used to post almost every day (night where I live)
-
Where is TS? :?
Maybe he or she is attending something about Elizabeth Taylor's death? :?
Now i see TS joined the forum on March 20 last time :? ....strange, he/she used to post almost every day (night where I live)
I noticed this too... Got the news this am. Strange. I couldn't sleep last night and was up between 2-2:30. I wonder when this all happened? The world has lost one of the last great cinema performers & the QUEEN of Hollywood. Peace be with you TS. <3[/b]
-
Where is TS? :?
Maybe he or she is attending something about Elizabeth Taylor's death? :?
Now i see TS joined the forum on March 20 last time :? ....strange, he/she used to post almost every day (night where I live)
I noticed this too... Got the news this am. Strange. I couldn't sleep last night and was up between 2-2:30. I wonder when this all happened? The world has lost one of the last great cinema performers & the QUEEN of Hollywood. Peace be with you TS. <3[/b]
Funny you should mention that MsTrintiy...I didn't sleep either...The Army's connections must have been working overtime! God be with Elizabeth's family and Michael. I know he and her family is hurting.. :cry:
-
Where is TS? :?
Maybe he or she is attending something about Elizabeth Taylor's death? :?
Now i see TS joined the forum on March 20 last time :? ....strange, he/she used to post almost every day (night where I live)
You don't need to log in to read the forum. There are always guests who appear to be reading this thread. The last log in date is just the last "log in". You can log out and keep reading.
-
Where is TS? :?
Maybe he or she is attending something about Elizabeth Taylor's death? :?
Now i see TS joined the forum on March 20 last time :? ....strange, he/she used to post almost every day (night where I live)
You don't need to log in to read the forum. There are always guests who appear to be reading this thread. The last log in date is just the last "log in". You can log out and keep reading.
i know that..but he/she was login almost every day to check our discussion and give some news/clues or directions about the ambulance pic and other things...and now he/she just "puff" disapeared...strange
-
There is a possibility TS might be MJ so that's why TS hasn't logged in or posted...but I guess we have to stay on topic...so the rectangle...clueless.
-
Where is TS? :?
Maybe he or she is attending something about Elizabeth Taylor's death? :?
Now i see TS joined the forum on March 20 last time :? ....strange, he/she used to post almost every day (night where I live)
I noticed this too... Got the news this am. Strange. I couldn't sleep last night and was up between 2-2:30. I wonder when this all happened? The world has lost one of the last great cinema performers & the QUEEN of Hollywood. Peace be with you TS. <3[/b]
Funny you should mention that MsTrintiy...I didn't sleep either...The Army's connections must have been working overtime! God be with Elizabeth's family and Michael. I know he and her family is hurting.. :cry:
Amen. I don't doubt it; some of seem to be locked onto one another. I checked the time line... I was awake during the time she passed & fell asleep shortly after. I was getting frustrated bc God was so silent and I didn't know why he woke me up. Usually its to pray for someone. :cry: And for some reason my posts are not showing my correct time zone, :?: it's an hour off...
-
There is a possibility TS might be MJ so that's why TS hasn't logged in or posted...but I guess we have to stay on topic...so the rectangle...clueless.
i dont believe that Ts is Michael..but prolly someone who is very close to him or his family..or not :?
-
On the rectangle... :?:
Is there something we are supposed to zero in on or compare concerning the handle/handles?
IDK; out of my field, I don't do digital.
On the leaf pattern... :?: it looks almost like a negative image to me. But what's it's purpose?
Laural has significance in many things Including my Clan badge, but these are not in the shape of a wreath. Wiki: in Rome they were symbols of martial victory, crowning a successful commander during his triumph. Whereas ancient laurel wreaths are most often depicted as a horseshoe shape, modern versions are usually complete rings. Nor does it look like the wreath of service...they look like the ones hanging around his property.
So I'm clueless :| .
As far as the paramedics etc I gave my answers on pgs :arrow: 11, 16 & 18... ;)
-
The "ordinary" TS (not TS_Comments) logged on March 15 for the last time... :?
-
The "ordinary" TS (not TS_Comments) logged on March 15 for the last time... :?
Yes, but it's the same person. I think Souza already verified this. ;)
-
RIP Elizabeth Taylor
I woke up this morning with my radio telling the news about the passing of Elizabeth Taylor. This is make me down and have the same feeling back to June 25, 2009. It's repeating all over again.... :(
Ok, trying to go back focus on investigation.
I have a thought to answer the leaves pattern and whether the paramedic are on it or not.
Maybe (my opinion), the leaves pattern was photoshopped in to tell that Michael was in that ambulance (because it's look like the pattern forming MJ's face). He was inside that ambulance to give direction to the paramedic and Ben how he wanted the photo taken. So they could use real ambulance (rented) or even fake ambulance (it explain why the interior a bit different). Or maybe they take a photo of ambulance interior then join the photo of the paramedic and the michael in layers. I believe it's easy to be done, because I work with photoshop and do photo manipulation, so it's easy to make those fake photo without the real ambulance or real people.
So it means that the paramedic are not in on it. It reduce the amount of people in the hoax, which is bette.
So on the June 25, 2009, the real paramedics came answering the 911 call. MJ's people or family or whoever in charge or even Murray (I believe, he is one of FBI undercover) told to paramedic like this...."We know that Michael is the famous person in the world, but we don't want media cover his death, the family want a privacy. You just do the routine you normally do to a dying person, just bring to hospital. While we will go from the back door or we will later when all media gone to hospital. We make like a distraction. When people attention to the hospital then we will bring Michael's body out."
So I think the paramedics would do this if the reason if the family want a privacy and the don't want media cover his death.
The paramedics telling the truth in the court about the don't recognize it's michael etc. They don't lie at all, they just tell what they do and see on that day. They will not questioning the photo because they know that it's fake because they were prepared at the beginning that the family didn't want it's covered by media.
It's just my thought. Could be wrong could be right. Because If the fake photo made the other day, am sure Michael would be involved in the ambulance when the photo taken to give direction what he wanted, and the real paramedic not needed in there, also they don't need real ambulance to do this...peace
-
[youtube:mfkocq0q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k5pbV5JTA8&feature=related[/youtube:mfkocq0q]
Here is part of a Bigger Picture. I really do not like being thought of as "We" especially in the context of frustration, doubts, don't know, and guessing. I do not need to guess. This is ultimately what the bigger picture is. Bring PEACE to our world. I am sad today for the loss of Elizabeth. :cry: I have been quiet for a few days not posting in this thread but I have been reading. :ugeek:
TS whenever your ready to resume this investigating "In your own time". I am waiting patiently and I am far from being frustrated by this. You are in my prayers.
Love u more.
Peace
-
RIP Liz. :(
I took a break, and let things settle down a bit. It really doesn’t bother me if people make jokes about me, or laugh at me, etc; if I was easily offended, then I would’ve been gone from here a long time ago! Nevertheless, the statements that some have made about respect are worthy of consideration; not so much for my sake, but in a general sense, because there are some people who are easily offended. Remember, this is “All for L.O.V.E.”
It’s true that this is a very serious subject we are investigating; but it’s also true that a good laugh helps to make it more enjoyable, and keeps us from getting burned out. This is what I meant when I said “enjoy the ride”; I did not mean that I was taking the subject lightly, or that I would be playing games with anybody—just for my own fun. I have never done that, and I never will!
I am going to let you in on another little secret. The leaf pattern is not the most important part of the investigation. Then why did I start with that, and why do I repeatedly bring it up? Because it is a very good example of how to investigate—and more importantly, how NOT to investigate. And in this one sense, the leaf pattern is extremely important. Because if you use the wrong methods with the leaf pattern, then you will probably use wrong methods in other areas of investigation—and that is when it becomes very important.
Take for example the face that people have seen in the leaf pattern. It is great to have and use good imagination in investigation; we should imagine any and all possibilities, on everything that we are examining. It is okay to imagine a face, or letters, OR LEAVES!!! But don’t stop at that point! Once you have a theory, then you need to try and DEBUNK YOUR OWN THEORY! And let others try to debunk it.
And if you come up with a theory that has at least two strong points in support of it, and nobody can debunk those strong points; and if nobody can come up with any other strong theories: then you PROBABLY have found the truth. It is easy to see what we want to see; but it’s not always easy to see the truth. MJ wants us to learn how to see the truth: “the truth will prevail”!
Take for example the shadows on the red car. This is one strong point, nobody has debunked, on why the ambulance photo was staged. But this is not the only strong point, in support of the photo being staged. Furthermore, even with the shadow, I added a second and closer picture of the shadow versus sunshine on the front left wheel area {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310880&#p310880}. So there are two strong evidences of the shadow aspect alone; and the shadow aspect alone is only one of more than two strong points about the ambulance photo being fake (and staged). This is how you build strong investigation.
Nobody has yet even made a serious attempt to debunk the shadow differences on the red car. Souza said maybe a local whirlwind; but of course she was just joking. It is theoretically possible, but very unlikely; furthermore, even if there was a whirlwind, we could probably find evidences of it in the video and/or the series of still pictures (with a whirlwind, even a split second would make a big difference in the shadows on the car—and you could probably hear it in the audio track).
Also, being early afternoon, the sun would be high in the sky; so something moving on the ground would not be in the right position to block the sunlight on the red car. It would have to be something in the sky; but clouds move too slowly to change the shadows that much in a few seconds. Maybe an airplane flew by just at the right second to block the sun! Again, extremely unlikely; and even if that’s what happened, you could probably hear it (and/or see evidences of the shadow moving rapidly, while the pap was running with the camera).
I’m not trying to go back and discuss the red car and shadows again in great detail; but I am trying to show an example of solid investigation. Some have mentioned over-analyzing (the leaf pattern, etc). Many people are not used to heavy investigation; and if they don’t want to do it here, that is their choice. But the leaf pattern certainly has not been over analyzed, at least not in the sense of going way beyond establishing a solid theory—because NO solid theory has been established yet! It is possible that with some things, we will not be able to establish any solid theory; and if something comes to that, then so be it. But I don’t think we are at that point yet with the leaf pattern.
I already gave four strong points why it’s not a part of the background image {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309086&#p309086}. However, did anyone give two or more strong reasons in support of there being an intentional face in the image (and not an imaginary face, like seeing things in the clouds)? Did anyone try to debunk the face idea? Did anyone try to debunk the theory that the pattern is Photoshopped? And were there at least two strong reasons why it is Photoshopped?
Could it be a reflection of natural leaves during the staged photo shoot? That would answer why they don’t move with the background image (red car); but it would probably indicate an outdoor staging, which would be an unnecessary high risk. Also, in that case the pattern should overlap the paramedics arm (not go behind it).
Did anyone try to debunk the idea that it is an intentional leaf image? Did anyone notice that in my very first post about it, I referred to is as “a leaf-like pattern” {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053}? Has anyone noticed that the leaf shapes are somewhat random, and not very artistic? This would be expected if it was a reflection of natural leaves; but the reflection theory has some problems.
Could it be nothing more than an optical illusion, resulting from the combination of multiple lights and shadows—all bouncing off of the somewhat random, yet mostly circular ambulance interior pattern? If you take two overlapping circles, the area that overlaps will be shaped roughly like a leaf. Has anyone noticed that the “stem” of the main leaf pattern goes vertical, in exactly the place where the paramedics arm shadow hits the ambulance compartment wall?
I am giving far more questions here than answers; but again, far more important than the leaf pattern itself, is how we approach the process of investigation. Yet it may have a degree of significance, in the current question of whether or not ambulance #71 was used for the staged photo (and therefore whether at least some of the paramedics are involved in the hoax).
I do want to get back to the paramedics, the FBI, etc; and hopefully we can move on to a new level soon. But I really felt that most people still were not getting the basic concept of critical analysis. I hope that it comes through clearer now, and that we will not forget to challenge our own theories—this is the only way that we can expect the truth to prevail! :)
-
I do want to get back to the paramedics, the FBI, etc
Sounds like a bloody good idea!
-
I am going to let you in on another little secret. And in this one sense, the leaf pattern is extremely important. Because if you use the wrong methods with the leaf pattern, then you will probably use wrong methods in other areas of investigation—and that is why The leaf pattern is not the most important part of the investigation. Then why did I start with that, and why do I repeatedly bring it up? Because it is a very good example of how to investigate—and more importantly, how NOT to investigate. Then it becomes very important.
LOL you chose the most unexplainable detail of that photo to give us un example of how to investigate because there are no answers to that leaf-pattern. We can investigate it for a 1000 years and not agree over what it is. Thank you very much :roll:
I would approach it this way: if none of the theories trying to explain it can be sustained with at least 2 solid arguments than it has to be just a result of lights and shadows.
-
Thanks TS....firstly, thanks for the tips, but I feel that it is a time factor thing. Most of us have other lives that need attending to as well, and (I speak for myself) a family to take care of too.
Time is the essence...and I for one, spend enough time here, neglecting my health and family and don't have the right advanced technology to research and decifer all of these inconsistencies effectively. But thanks for the heads up.
The leaf pattern is just a reflection in the ambulance.....IMO as there is no other reason for it being there in the first place...
1. Why do we need to have 2 different pictures??
If all of my hoaxy friends want to start with one topic at at time, maybe we can come up with something concrete as evidence.
-
EDIT....or just dirt on the lense. ;) ;)
-
Just a thought... what are the chances that the "leaf pattern" is just light from the flash shining through the clear bag (circled in pic below) and underneath the paramedics arm? I know it appears that the pattern overlaps the arm a very small amount but that could be one of those dreaded optical illusions.
Also, Ambulance1 picture looks just to be a zoomed shot of almost the exact same moment that is ambulance2. The zoom had to have been done by the photographer i would think to make the car and shadows appear to move. Did the photographer have enough time to aim the camera, take a shot, adjust the zoom and take two more pictures at different angles before the ambulance pulled away? I know they do this for a living but that's some quick thinking when you're not sure what you are shooting. I'm almost sure they couldn't see in with the reflection on the glass so interesting that they knew just how much to zoom and how much to tilt the camera. Another thing that is suspect is the fact that there are reflections everywhere else in the picture except where "MJ" is laying. Odd that there are no reflections OVER him, just those close around him. I don't know... maybe I've been staring at these photos too long. Perhaps I should get away from them awhile and come back with fresh eyes later.
[attachment=0:2o6l17tq]Ambulance2_circledbag.jpg[/attachment:2o6l17tq]
-
The one thing that has always bugged me about the paramedics and particularly the one standing, is the placement of his ONE Hand. This may have been brought up before, but I haven't read the discussion if there was one. If you look up, proper hand placement for CPR, the hand is suppose to be in the middle of the chest. This guy looks like he almost has his hand on the patients shoulder. Maybe he took guidance from Conrad!!
This leads me to believe they are not the "real thing", Which reminds me of the old Coke commercial....hmmm
-
I have still been looking around to find information on LAFD ambulances in general. I found this video entitled Behind the Scenes in an LAFD Rescue Ambulance:
http://wn.com/Behind_the_Scenes_in_an_L ... _Ambulance (http://wn.com/Behind_the_Scenes_in_an_LAFD_Rescue_Ambulance)
He mentions they are staffed with two paramedics.....this is an 800 ambulance, a Basic Life Support ambulance. Does anyone know if an ALS (Advanced Life Support) ambulance is staffed differently for LAFD. I have not seen anything to indicate that. When the unit is staffed with two paramedics, does that include the driver, or not? Anyone know? From the LAFD site I can tell #71 is an ALS ambulance. I found another site that lists out a wealth of information. Perhaps, something will stick out to someone here. (I am getting plain tired....my eyes are very heavy)
http://forum.emergency-planet.com/index ... -agencies/ (http://forum.emergency-planet.com/index.php?/topic/7398-a-guide-to-the-lafd-and-assisting-agencies/)
Where I am going with all this.....I feel like if I take a step back and really look, the answers will be obvious. One thing I with this hoax, I would have thought Michael would think of everyone. So, really I believe the answers to be clearly in front of our eyes. I don't think mass amounts of computer skills will solve this. Surely, the computer helps...however, not everyone has the benefit of them. It's why I don't spend a great deal of time on pixels and such. I have played around with a few photos....but, my core belief is that the answers are starring at us in the face.....hiding in plain sight, so to speak. For example, many have said there was no extra room back there for Dr. Murray....true, very little room. However, Murray did say he would take full responsibility, did he not? Should he be working on Michael? Who's driving? Here is a driver's manual for LAFD maybe it teaches you how to back out in an emergency:
http://lafdtraining.org/ists/books/bk08v1107.pdf (http://lafdtraining.org/ists/books/bk08v1107.pdf)
If it's not a real ambulance, where do you get an ambulance...maybe a place like this:
http://chrisescars.com/cinema-vehicle-services/ (http://chrisescars.com/cinema-vehicle-services/)
In regards to the shadows or reflections....on the red car we see light patterns of red color...as if something is shining through and casting shadows. Immediately, on the paramedic, on Michael's head, cutting through the upper portion of pic...we see reflections...not shadows. They are all the gold-ish color. Can you actually have shadows and reflections like these going on at the same time in a photo?
I am not sure......not when they are so close.
Ok.....I will have to continue this quest later....I am facing only getting 2-3 hours of sleep- sort of usual for me, but still tiring.
TS....thank you for the post.....we will get there, keep the faith.
Keeping Elizabeth and her family close in thought and prayer....as well as Michael.
Blessings to you all.....
-
I am going to let you in on another little secret. The leaf pattern is not the most important part of the investigation. Then why did I start with that, and why do I repeatedly bring it up? Because it is a very good example of how to investigate—and more importantly, how NOT to investigate. And in this one sense, the leaf pattern is extremely important. Because if you use the wrong methods with the leaf pattern, then you will probably use wrong methods in other areas of investigation—and that is when it becomes very important.
Do you think that at this point in time, after 20+ months, do people have time to spend weeks digging into a leaf-pattern shape wether it's photoshopped or not? This way no one will ever reach to serious things- like the involvement of FBI and the government- to be able to pull this out.
Nobody has yet even made a serious attempt to debunk the shadow differences on the red car. Souza said maybe a local whirlwind; but of course she was just joking. It is theoretically possible, but very unlikely; furthermore, even if there was a whirlwind, we could probably find evidences of it in the video and/or the series of still pictures (with a whirlwind, even a split second would make a big difference in the shadows on the car—and you could probably hear it in the audio track).
But what Souza said is very possible and logical. It doesn't have to be a strong wind as to hear it, it doesn't have to be a tempest. A slight soft wind enough to move the branches would change completely the position of the shadows on the car.
It is possible that with some things, we will not be able to establish any solid theory; and if something comes to that, then so be it. But I don’t think we are at that point yet with the leaf pattern.
Why sould people not be able to establish a solid theory(although for me, the word "theory" is equal to "speculation") if you know things, then why you can't guide people to discover these too?
I do want to get back to the paramedics, the FBI, etc; and hopefully we can move on to a new level soon. But I really felt that most people still were not getting the basic concept of critical analysis. I hope that it comes through clearer now, and that we will not forget to challenge our own theories—this is the only way that we can expect the truth to prevail! :)
I want that too. I just want to see if there is a possible legal way to pass over laws, physicians, paramedics, coroners, nurses, cemerety staff, Courts, with all this. And if it's a proof of FBI involvement in this all (from the very beginning I thought about FBI, but my thought is not fact). I consider this to be far more important than extreme details like leaf-pattern shadows on the wall, cause in the end the HOWS weigh a lot, at least for me the HOWS are as important as the WHYS, but wether the leaf-pattern shadow is photoshopped or not it's an extreme detail. This could be a murder, and to analyze shapes made of shadows simply makes me feel like I'm being played with. I know no one forces me to analyze it, that's why I don't even digg into it, but I just needed to say that.
-
The one thing that has always bugged me about the paramedics and particularly the one standing, is the placement of his ONE Hand. This may have been brought up before, but I haven't read the discussion if there was one. If you look up, proper hand placement for CPR, the hand is suppose to be in the middle of the chest. This guy looks like he almost has his hand on the patients shoulder. Maybe he took guidance from Conrad!!
This leads me to believe they are not the "real thing", Which reminds me of the old Coke commercial....hmmm
I´m going back to the medic stuff, because that´s more my thing than the tec stuff.
The hand´s placement seems ok to me, because the ankle has to be in the middle of the sternum, between the nipples. There are some good videos on youtube where they show proper CPR basics. ( Sorry I still don´t know how to post youtube stuff here... :cry: )
But there are some things that bother me:
Normally you do the CPR with TWO hands, twisted together. You pump maybe 20 times, then you take a break, and a second person ( in this case the paramedic on the right side ) pumps O2 into the body, 2 or 3 times. Then you start the heart treatment again. You aren´t allowed to do both things at the same time.
So, what do we see on the pics:
1) the left paramedic has only one hand on the chest and turns away.
2) The other one has an intubation bag which is not squeezed, and not on the way to be squeezed.
3) The manual blood pressure is off, ok you could mention that maybe the blood pressure is recorded digitally. But the monitor is off.
4) I still can´t see any IV equipment, as I posted some pages ago.
5) I can´t see ECG pads, there should be two on the chest underneath the clavicle ( one on each side ) and one on the left side of the thorax. The ECG could be watched on the monitor, but the monitor is off.
Ok you might mention that maybe there is no ECG in amb #71, but when I as a normal midwife am able to buy a portable ECG, this should be possible for an ambulance´s standard equipment as well.
My conclusion: when the left paramedic takes a break, the other one should squeeze the O2 bag. But he doesn´t.
That means:
1) the pap got the part of a second where nobody does anything ( very unlikely )
2) the situation is staged.
Well, one subject of this thread is: are there real paramedics, or actors?
I still can´t proof it, but I think they are not real, because they forgot a lot of important things. This wouldn´t happen to real paramedics.
Please don´t hesitate to correct me if I am wrong.
And why aren´t we allowed to see at least a part of their faces, a chin, a nose, don´t know!
The edges of the pic are too clean.
-
Sorry I have to correct myself:
It´s not the ankle, it´s the wrist joint! :oops:
Just got my dictionary...
-
Eternal flame, I am also in the medical field, and most of my family teach first aide.
The first thing I noticed is that this was not being done properly. In Australia, our CPR rules have changed to 30:2. Thirty compressions and two breaths. I also am trained in ECG's and defribs, and as far as I am concerned and from my personal experiences, this is not real at all. One handed CPR is exactly what CM was doing and it is ineffective.
The look on MJ's face shows some discomfort....a staged performance. Therefore, the (staged) or paid paramedics, are not doing anything at all, but are more like staging their positions just in case. You cannot perform CPR or intubate a live person...
Another thing is, when a person dies, their eye are usually slighly opened, regardless of the time. And most of the time, people die with their eyes completely opened.
These are photos taken from the re-enactment of MJ's death. Bear in mind, this is a paid actor and stunt double....anything is possible
-
You are right, there was an upgrade in CPR. Thanks for the information! :D
-
You are right, there was an upgrade in CPR. Thanks for the information! :D
I think they are planning to make the rescue breaths redundant too.....keeping the heart pumping, is the most important thing, and it carries oxygen rich blood to the other organs...
MJ supposedly had adrenaline injected into him, but I haven't heard of any evidence of any defribilation being done...very unusual. :o :o :o
Also, paramedics spend time on the scene to stabilize the patient before transportation.
A ride in an ambulance can be very bumpy, and again, protocol is not adhered to because one of the paramedics is standing up as the ambulance is in transit
:o :o :o :o :o :o :D
Very unlikely, and no IV lines at all..........All Fake !!
TS, you have our proof. ;) ;)
-
The cabinet surface where the "leaf pattern" appears (or whatever it is) looks like a dull, flat matt black surface. I thought, from basic science knowledge, that black is not a light reflective surface but is however a light absorber. Perhaps shiny black surfaces will reflect very bright light like a flashlight or camera flash etc but this cabinet looks like a very dull, matt, black surface and if the image is a reflection of the leaves outside they probably would be much more diffuse and muted compared to a bright flash or light, even more so through tinted ambulance windows.
Would this dull matt black surface really be capable of reflecting this image coming through tinted windows from the leaves outside the ambulance? These points added to the fact that you can still see the image behind the shadow cast by the arm of the paramedic - it stands out even more there- makes me think this image is something already inside the ambulance and not a reflection from outside. Either Photoshopped into the pic later or drawn onto the cabinet surface by some type of waxy crayon before the staged picture was taken.
To me I still see a face...no matter how many times I look at it. In which case it would still have to be inserted by PS or drawn onto the cabinet before the pic was taken. Similarly, if it is only leaves then I still don't see how they are a reflection from the outside due my points above.
-
TS_comments wrote:
Take for example the shadows on the red car. This is one strong point, nobody has debunked, on why the ambulance photo was staged. But this is not the only strong point, in support of the photo being staged. Furthermore, even with the shadow, I added a second and closer picture of the shadow versus sunshine on the front left wheel area {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310880&#p310880}. So there are two strong evidences of the shadow aspect alone; and the shadow aspect alone is only one of more than two strong points about the ambulance photo being fake (and staged). This is how you build strong investigation.
I am giving far more questions here than answers; but again, far more important than the leaf pattern itself, is how we approach the process of investigation. Yet it may have a degree of significance, in the current question of whether or not ambulance #71 was used for the staged photo (and therefore whether at least some of the paramedics are involved in the hoax).
I didn’t post yet on this thread, yet I read the posts almost every day. I’ve to admit that I’m intrigued by the leaf pattern, wondering about the significance. The picture is staged and photo shopped, that’s for sure.
TS, yes you’re giving us more questions than answers, but I think they are leading questions with the indication that we might be on the right track, which is a motivation for further investigation.
So motivated by your boosting comments I watched the ambulance video again, focussing on the red car. Now, striking is the sunlit leaf patterned wreath image on the shadowed car hood. This same leaf wreath image in negative is shown as a shadow around MJ’s face. A solid proof the ambulance picture is photo shopped.
The reason might be to proof how easy media can fool and mislead people by using photo shop tricks in pictures.
-
Eternal flame, I am also in the medical field, and most of my family teach first aide.
The first thing I noticed is that this was not being done properly. In Australia, our CPR rules have changed to 30:2. Thirty compressions and two breaths. I also am trained in ECG's and defribs, and as far as I am concerned and from my personal experiences, this is not real at all. One handed CPR is exactly what CM was doing and it is ineffective.
The look on MJ's face shows some discomfort....a staged performance. Therefore, the (staged) or paid paramedics, are not doing anything at all, but are more like staging their positions just in case. You cannot perform CPR or intubate a live person...
Another thing is, when a person dies, their eye are usually slighly opened, regardless of the time. And most of the time, people die with their eyes completely opened.
These are photos taken from the re-enactment of MJ's death. Bear in mind, this is a paid actor and stunt double....anything is possible
how did you come by the first picture?
-
RIP Liz. :(
I took a break, and let things settle down a bit. It really doesn’t bother me if people make jokes about me, or laugh at me, etc; if I was easily offended, then I would’ve been gone from here a long time ago! Nevertheless, the statements that some have made about respect are worthy of consideration; not so much for my sake, but in a general sense, because there are some people who are easily offended. Remember, this is “All for L.O.V.E.”
It’s true that this is a very serious subject we are investigating; but it’s also true that a good laugh helps to make it more enjoyable, and keeps us from getting burned out. This is what I meant when I said “enjoy the ride”; I did not mean that I was taking the subject lightly, or that I would be playing games with anybody—just for my own fun. I have never done that, and I never will!
I am going to let you in on another little secret. The leaf pattern is not the most important part of the investigation. Then why did I start with that, and why do I repeatedly bring it up? Because it is a very good example of how to investigate—and more importantly, how NOT to investigate. And in this one sense, the leaf pattern is extremely important. Because if you use the wrong methods with the leaf pattern, then you will probably use wrong methods in other areas of investigation—and that is when it becomes very important.
Take for example the face that people have seen in the leaf pattern. It is great to have and use good imagination in investigation; we should imagine any and all possibilities, on everything that we are examining. It is okay to imagine a face, or letters, OR LEAVES!!! But don’t stop at that point! Once you have a theory, then you need to try and DEBUNK YOUR OWN THEORY! And let others try to debunk it.
And if you come up with a theory that has at least two strong points in support of it, and nobody can debunk those strong points; and if nobody can come up with any other strong theories: then you PROBABLY have found the truth. It is easy to see what we want to see; but it’s not always easy to see the truth. MJ wants us to learn how to see the truth: “the truth will prevail”!
Take for example the shadows on the red car. This is one strong point, nobody has debunked, on why the ambulance photo was staged. But this is not the only strong point, in support of the photo being staged. Furthermore, even with the shadow, I added a second and closer picture of the shadow versus sunshine on the front left wheel area {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310880&#p310880}. So there are two strong evidences of the shadow aspect alone; and the shadow aspect alone is only one of more than two strong points about the ambulance photo being fake (and staged). This is how you build strong investigation.
Nobody has yet even made a serious attempt to debunk the shadow differences on the red car. Souza said maybe a local whirlwind; but of course she was just joking. It is theoretically possible, but very unlikely; furthermore, even if there was a whirlwind, we could probably find evidences of it in the video and/or the series of still pictures (with a whirlwind, even a split second would make a big difference in the shadows on the car—and you could probably hear it in the audio track).
Also, being early afternoon, the sun would be high in the sky; so something moving on the ground would not be in the right position to block the sunlight on the red car. It would have to be something in the sky; but clouds move too slowly to change the shadows that much in a few seconds. Maybe an airplane flew by just at the right second to block the sun! Again, extremely unlikely; and even if that’s what happened, you could probably hear it (and/or see evidences of the shadow moving rapidly, while the pap was running with the camera).
I’m not trying to go back and discuss the red car and shadows again in great detail; but I am trying to show an example of solid investigation. Some have mentioned over-analyzing (the leaf pattern, etc). Many people are not used to heavy investigation; and if they don’t want to do it here, that is their choice. But the leaf pattern certainly has not been over analyzed, at least not in the sense of going way beyond establishing a solid theory—because NO solid theory has been established yet! It is possible that with some things, we will not be able to establish any solid theory; and if something comes to that, then so be it. But I don’t think we are at that point yet with the leaf pattern.
I already gave four strong points why it’s not a part of the background image {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309086&#p309086}. However, did anyone give two or more strong reasons in support of there being an intentional face in the image (and not an imaginary face, like seeing things in the clouds)? Did anyone try to debunk the face idea? Did anyone try to debunk the theory that the pattern is Photoshopped? And were there at least two strong reasons why it is Photoshopped?
Could it be a reflection of natural leaves during the staged photo shoot? That would answer why they don’t move with the background image (red car); but it would probably indicate an outdoor staging, which would be an unnecessary high risk. Also, in that case the pattern should overlap the paramedics arm (not go behind it).
Did anyone try to debunk the idea that it is an intentional leaf image? Did anyone notice that in my very first post about it, I referred to is as “a leaf-like pattern” {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053}? Has anyone noticed that the leaf shapes are somewhat random, and not very artistic? This would be expected if it was a reflection of natural leaves; but the reflection theory has some problems.
Could it be nothing more than an optical illusion, resulting from the combination of multiple lights and shadows—all bouncing off of the somewhat random, yet mostly circular ambulance interior pattern? If you take two overlapping circles, the area that overlaps will be shaped roughly like a leaf. Has anyone noticed that the “stem” of the main leaf pattern goes vertical, in exactly the place where the paramedics arm shadow hits the ambulance compartment wall?
I am giving far more questions here than answers; but again, far more important than the leaf pattern itself, is how we approach the process of investigation. Yet it may have a degree of significance, in the current question of whether or not ambulance #71 was used for the staged photo (and therefore whether at least some of the paramedics are involved in the hoax).
I do want to get back to the paramedics, the FBI, etc; and hopefully we can move on to a new level soon. But I really felt that most people still were not getting the basic concept of critical analysis. I hope that it comes through clearer now, and that we will not forget to challenge our own theories—this is the only way that we can expect the truth to prevail! :)
by the way good to see we didn't break you , though i am not so sure that anewfan survived the virtual stoneing .
-
TS_comments wrote:
I am giving far more questions here than answers; but again, far more important than the leaf pattern itself, is how we approach the process of investigation. Yet it may have a degree of significance, in the current question of whether or not ambulance #71 was used for the staged photo (and therefore whether at least some of the paramedics are involved in the hoax).
everlastinglove_MJ:
I didn’t post yet on this thread, yet I read the posts almost every day. I’ve to admit that I’m intrigued by the leaf pattern, wondering about the significance. The picture is staged and photo shopped, that’s for sure.
TS, yes you’re giving us more questions than answers, but I think they are leading questions with the indication that we might be on the right track, which is a motivation for further investigation.
So motivated by your boosting comments I watched the ambulance video again, focussing on the red car. Now, striking is the sunlit leaf patterned wreath image on the shadowed car hood. This same leaf wreath image in negative is shown as a shadow around MJ’s face. A solid proof the ambulance picture is photo shopped.
The reason might be to proof how easy media can fool and mislead people by using photo shop tricks in pictures.
[/b]
This is what I noticed too and posted on the previous page:
On the leaf pattern... :?: it looks almost like a negative image to me. But what's it's purpose?
Laural has significance in many things Including my Clan badge, but these are not in the shape of a wreath. Wiki: in Rome they were symbols of martial victory, crowning a successful commander during his triumph. Whereas ancient laurel wreaths are most often depicted as a horseshoe shape, modern versions are usually complete rings. Nor does it look like the wreath of service...they look like the ones hanging around his property.
Leaves leaves everywhere...what are we supposed to see? Patterns don't match, shadows don't match.
I agree with TS; a little comic relief does a body good esp since we are approaching some very serious subject matter.
On that note I just watched an interesting video...
[youtube:6wx16mys]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3Vi-ywuOPU[/youtube:6wx16mys]
-
The photo of the ambulance was not on the 25th of June, the red car is parked there to see the real picture as it was taken that day, with that exaggerated reflection of the car in the photo. And I think the paramedics are on the hoax, remember that the call was made from the 9641 Sunset Boulevard in Beverly Hills Hotel, we must remember the screenshot to the address on the fire truck .. I do not think the paramedics are not able to find an address.
-
The photo of the ambulance was not on the 25th of June, the red car is parked there to see the real picture as it was taken that day, with that exaggerated reflection of the car in the photo. And I think the paramedics are on the hoax, remember that the call was made from the 9641 Sunset Boulevard in Beverly Hills Hotel, we must remember the screenshot to the address on the fire truck .. I do not think the paramedics are not able to find an address.
It makes sense. I think you just gave a second reason to believe the paramedics are in the hoax. The first one is that they don't talk about the photo being fake, because we can recognize Michael and they said they didn't.
-
I still think it's possible that the "leaf/face" pattern was sketched onto the photo somehow. I said that in the TIAI Feb 26 thread - I just think it's more likely than anything else. I could be wrong though, it seems like all my contributions to these last two re-direct threads have been a swing and a miss. :lol:
-
Maybe that cabinet was not properly cleaned and that's all :? ?
-
You pump maybe 20 times, then you take a break, and a second person ( in this case the paramedic on the right side ) pumps O2 into the body, 2 or 3 times. Then you start the heart treatment again. You aren´t allowed to do both things at the same time.
It's actually a ratio of 30 compressions to 2 breaths. However, once the patient is intubated (which the patient in the photo is), you actually DO do the compressions and respirations simultaneously.
2) The other one has an intubation bag which is not squeezed, and not on the way to be squeezed.
The bag should be squeezed every 5 to 6 seconds. No way the photos were taken over that long of a succession.
3) The manual blood pressure is off, ok you could mention that maybe the blood pressure is recorded digitally. But the monitor is off.
They use an NIBP that is attached to the monitor, which we cannot see the monitor screen so we don't know it it's on or not. This screen is NOT the screen on the wall of the ambulance. And realistically, the patient had been asystolic for a loooong time. You're not going to get a blood pressure anyway.
4) I still can´t see any IV equipment, as I posted some pages ago.
It's attached to his neck.
5) I can´t see ECG pads, there should be two on the chest underneath the clavicle ( one on each side ) and one on the left side of the thorax. The ECG could be watched on the monitor, but the monitor is off.
You can see one of the defib pads. It's partly under the medics hand on the upper right portion of the patient's chest near his shoulder. It's the giant white thing. You would not be able to see the second defib pad from the angle of the photo. And again, we don't know that the monitor is off. We DO know there is a monitor present, to which the ETCO2 on the ET tube would be connected, and the blood pressure cuff, and the defib pads.
Edit because I should have just kept reading and posted everything in this one post:
Another thing is, when a person dies, their eye are usually slighly opened, regardless of the time. And most of the time, people die with their eyes completely opened
There is no rule of thumb for this. I've worked codes with eyes wide open and eyes totally shut. Ones I could close and they stayed close, others I tried to close and they opened wide or opened a little bit. Ones I couldn't close. Ones that were closed that I could open and they stayed open, and others that were closed and when I opened them they stayed open.
MJ supposedly had adrenaline injected into him, but I haven't heard of any evidence of any defribilation being done...very unusual.
Not unusual. All reports state he was in PEA and asystole. He was never in a shockable rhythm - a rhythm that would have be appropriate for defibrillation to be performed.
A ride in an ambulance can be very bumpy, and again, protocol is not adhered to because one of the paramedics is standing up as the ambulance is in transit
You can't do compressions sitting down. You HAVE to stand in the ambulance. (If he was on the ground, you could kneel). But you can't do them while sitting in the ambulance.
Very unlikely, and no IV lines at all
There is. The IV is in his neck.
-
by the way good to see we didn't break you , though i am not so sure that anewfan survived the virtual stoneing .
I'm still here! I just can't access the forum most days. My computer says "can't find server" whenever I try to get on the forum for some reason. It's very frustrating.
-
by the way good to see we didn't break you , though i am not so sure that anewfan survived the virtual stoneing .
I'm still here! I just can't access the forum most days. My computer says "can't find server" whenever I try to get on the forum for some reason. It's very frustrating.
glad your here. sorry about the computor. seems like i have had that during some periods. not lately.
-
Warning my next 2 posts will be long.
Part One.
@TS:Thanks for the post to continue this investigating.
TS_comments wrote:
Take for example the face that people have seen in the leaf pattern. It is great to have and use good imagination in investigation; we should imagine any and all possibilities, on everything that we are examining. It is okay to imagine a face, or letters, OR LEAVES!!! But don’t stop at that point! Once you have a theory, then you need to try and DEBUNK YOUR OWN THEORY! And let others try to debunk it.
I went way out on my imagination. See next post. Also I am not one to normally go around looking for faces or things in clouds or other objects. I did see Michael's face instantly when I looked at the pictures you presented to us back on the TIAI 2/26 thread. I had no pre-conceived thought when looking at the pictures.
TS_comments wrote:
I already gave four strong points why it’s not a part of the background image viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309086&#p309086 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309086&#p309086). However, did anyone give two or more strong reasons in support of there being an intentional face in the image (and not an imaginary face, like seeing things in the clouds)?
I first need to know what you consider the background image. Are you referring to the background image as the original picture of the ambulance interior and the MJ dummy with the intubation tube and the paramedics shown doing some kind of CPR; working to sustain MJ on the ride to the hospital? Or are you saying the background image is the reflections we see on the pictures? I ask these questions because of this comment you made before on the TIAI 2/26 thread.
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053#p308499 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053#p308499)
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/PatternClose-up.jpg)
TS_comments wrote:
This zoomed area is a leaf-like pattern (whether or not you see a face hidden in the pattern). So the big question for now is whether the pattern ...
#1 ... is part of the secondary image (with the red car, etc)?
#2 ... is part of the ambulance interior design?
#3 ... is edited into the picture (Photoshop), not part of the ambulance or secondary image?
Also the comment you made here.
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309086#p309086 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309086#p309086)
The first thing I want to do with the leaf pattern, is show that it just plain can’t possibly be a reflection (or part of the background image).
My 1st attempt to prove the picture is Photoshopped.
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=308590#p308590 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=308590#p308590)
http://www.photoshopessentials.com/basics/layers/layers-intro.php
From what I can gather from reading many people's thoughts on Photoshop pics (this includes other threads which talk of photoshop) many of you seem to think that Photoshop is done only one way. I read that many of you say there are no lines. I know your looking for the tracing, cut out and paste effect. That can be done that way and then the images smuged to match colors and blend together.
The other really neat thing you can do with Photoshop is LAYERS. The pic is Photoshopped using a layer effect. Click link for a tutorial ;)
Peace
My 2nd attempt to prove it is Photoshopped.
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309320#p309320 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309320#p309320)
Im_convincedmjalive wrote:
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance1.jpg)
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance2.jpg)
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance3.jpg)
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance4.jpg)
http://www.photoshopessentials.com/phot ... ens-flare/ (http://www.photoshopessentials.com/photo-effects/lens-flare/)
(http://www.photoshopessentials.com/images/photo-effects/lens-flare/original-image.jpg)Original Image
(http://www.photoshopessentials.com/images/photo-effects/lens-flare/photoshop-lens-flare-effect.jpg)After Lens Flare is applied
This is my opinion after I posted the first 2 regarding Photoshop as proof it was done that way. viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309760#p309760 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309760#p309760)
Im_convincedmjalive wrote:
I believe the pic was staged in another ambulance on another day and Photoshop fabricated. The extra stuff like the car, wall, leaves on the ground, etc. were added in layers over the one good original pic.
I also think it is a real pic of a wax dummy and not necessarily real EMT's but men in costumes to appear real. I believe real EMT's responded that day and are not in on the hoax. I am referring to the ones who took the stand.
So after I posted these things already; over the last 3 days I have actually pulled Ambulance1.jpg into Photoshop. I do have the program Adobe Photoshop 8.0 CS on my pc and I have spent numerous times attempting to unlock the layers on that picture. I have read the tutorials step by step. I have tried to figure out the process by reading this page. http://www.photoshopessentials.com/basi ... -intro.php (http://www.photoshopessentials.com/basics/layers/layers-intro.php) This is also why I have asked you TS what you consider the background of the pictures. :ugeek:
My findings are I can not unlock the layers because I do not have the original picture (background) and I do not have the original layers that were added to the background. I think the reason I can not do it is first I am not technically able to; I am not a very good Photoshopper...I lack the skills needed. Second I think the picture is locked as it is; all together and saved as a jpg therefore it is not in the format of PSD. I also tried to re-save the Ambulance1 picture as a PSD file and pulled that into Photoshop to attempt to see if I could then unlock and seperate the layers. No luck!
So now that I have attempted to try and bring better proof that the picture is Photoshopped I am going to come at this with a different method and approach. This will not be of the earthly realm and most common way of proving the picture is Photoshopped (using the software program Adobe 8.0).
Actually my first instinct and thought besides Photoshop was to go with what I am presenting below in the next post. I do not expect anyone to believe in what I present but this is another one of my opinions and theories. I honestly have no way to come at my own theories and debunk them. 8-)
-
Continued from my first post. Part two.
Warning again a long post.
Jermaine believes in ghosts why can't I? I actually watched this before on T.V. and have it recorded on my DVR. I have posted the other segments of this show for anyone who is interested in watching it in full. Embedding is disabled sorry you have to go to youtube to watch. 8-)
Celebrity Ghost Stories-S2E06 1/4
[youtube:2lk9pzja]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RurjDAps1tY[/youtube:2lk9pzja]
Pt 1: Jermaine Jackson, Diane Ladd, Dave Foley, Karina Smirnoff.
Celebrity Ghost Stories-S2E06 2/4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYQ81Dtd ... re=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYQ81Dtdgvo&feature=related)
Celebrity Ghost Stories-S2E06 3/4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un8HxPcW ... re=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un8HxPcWqU0&feature=related)
Celebrity Ghost Stories-S2E06 4/4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPCHJMt0 ... re=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPCHJMt02Us&feature=related)
The following videos below are the best quality I could find. I have no way of debunking what I see on the screen regarding Michael's shadow or image during interviews and T.V. broadcasts. 8-)
Michael Jackson's "GHOST" Caught live by CNN Larry King (full video tour)
[youtube:2lk9pzja]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7tiGWv555s&feature=related[/youtube:2lk9pzja]
Michael Jackson's "GHOST" Caught live by CNN Larry King (full video tour)
Ghostly figure seen at 4:45 to 4:47
Also check out the other videos on my channel and subscribe.
It doesn't look like a shadow to me. If looked at closely there is also a shadow on the floor from the figure, If this is a shadow on the wall then why is it on the floor too
Michael Jackson's Ghost Haunts CNN
[youtube:2lk9pzja]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D97VTc03sE0&feature=related[/youtube:2lk9pzja]
Michael Jackson's Image during interview at Neverland Ranch
[youtube:2lk9pzja]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0heNgDEyvE&feature=related[/youtube:2lk9pzja]Michael Jackson's Image appears behind Jermaine during Dateline NBC Interview on July 3, 2009. Watch the interview from the Today Show at 4 minutes and 20 seconds in, this will appear.. no photoshop used! Go to this webpage to see for yourself: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp ... 1#31704351 (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/31704351#31704351)
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/apparition (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/apparition)
ap·pa·ri·tion
–noun
1. a supernatural appearance of a person or thing, especially a ghost; a specter or phantom; wraith: a ghostly apparition at midnight.
2. anything that appears, especially something remarkable or startling: the surprising apparition of cowboys in new york City.
3. an act of appearing; manifestation.
4. Astronomy . the appearance or time when a comet, especially a periodic one, is visible: the 1986 apparition of Halley's comet.
http://www.magnificat.ca/cal/engl/05-08.htm (http://www.magnificat.ca/cal/engl/05-08.htm)
APPARITION of
SAINT MICHAEL the ARCHANGEL
Monte Gargano, Italy
(492)
(http://www.magnificat.ca/cal/gifs/0508.jpg)
http://www.studiesoftheparanormal.com/apparitions.html (http://www.studiesoftheparanormal.com/apparitions.html)
Apparitions - The term apparition is used for any kind of visual, paranormal related manifestation. The key word to remember is visual. A ghost can take the form of an apparition, like an orb or human figure that you can see. However, not all paranormal visualizations are ghosts. They can be in the form of trains, animals, and inanimate objects. Some apparitions of people might not always be a ghost, or spirit of a person. They might just be visions of things or people that were in that same location years ago. These forms of apparitions will not be conscious of their surroundings or of themselves. They are kind of like a holographic video of something that used to be there. This is called an imprint, and is caused by very dramatic and emotional events that become a part of the land and it's near surroundings. This is however, just a theory that I happen to agree with on certain forms of apparitions. Most professionals in paranormal fields will use the word apparition to describe all paranormal visualizations to keep things simple and avoid any confusion.
There are more than just one type of apparition. Here is a list of some below.
Crisis Apparitions - This is when a person is of course in or was in a crisis. Either they are dying or have just died and are appearing in spirit form to their family or other loved ones to send the message that they are are going or have all ready left the physical world. Some of these apparitions will point to their fatal injuries. Crisis apparitions can appear in peoples dreams as well.
Apparitions of the Dead - This form of course is the appearance of someones spirit that has all ready died. Usually to someone they were close to like family or others that are grieving for that persons soul. They appear in order to give information to their loved ones about unsettled or unfinished business that they feel should be taken care of.
Reciprocal Apparitions - In this case both the apparition and the person that sees it are still alive and remember seeing each other. Someone will be so lonely, worried, or missing the other that they will appear to that person in the form of an apparition and both will remember it happening. They can also be called ghosts of the living. This is a good example of how powerful the human mind and will actually is.
Deathbed Apparitions - An apparition that appears to a dying person, very close to the time of their death. They can be of dead relatives, angels, or biblical figures.
Apparitions have been thoroughly studied by parapsychologists and other paranormal researchers since the 19th century.They can vary and can hold different characteristics. Some are very lifelike in their movements and looks. Others can be transparent, and fuzzy with jerky, puppet like movements. Others can be even less lifelike and appear only as patches, or other forms of light. They can visualize very suddenly and then disappear in the same manner. Every apparition has it's own special qualities. Some can come with smells, some can make sounds, and others can just make gestures to get someones attention or communicate. Some people that have witnessed an apparition have actually tried to touch them. The majority of those individuals learn that their hands go right through the ghostly visions. In a few incidents however the percipient that have been able to touch them have felt a substance similar to a thin, flimsy fabric.
About every four out of five apparitions seem to appear for a reason. One of those reasons is to tell of the deceased persons own traumatic experience and/or death. Another is to give comfort to a family member or friend that has lost someone. Sometimes they just want to give important information to help the living as well. It may be that the other 20% of apparitions that do not seem to have a specific purpose are either imprint apparitions or have other matters to attend to that is unknown to the witness.
(http://www.studiesoftheparanormal.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/Ghostmist1.jpg.w560h385.jpg)This picture was on the page and I am using it to show what apparitions can look like. I do not know who these people are. :ugeek:
-
Thanks Lady medic.......CM said that MJ died with his eyes wide open.....so if he had been dead for sometime, would it be hard to close them shut, like we see in the ambulance...considering he should have been dead for some time ??????
The pics I posted are from the re-enactment of MJ's death.
Now look at these findings.......this is from another ambulance..78
LOOK AT THE PATTERNS ON THE DECOR
-
And another thing...I've been studying the shadows on the ground to determine the time factor.
In the famous "Ben Evensted video", there is no shadows of trees on the pavement of the driveway, Pictures 1 & 2.
But on the 25th June, in the famous video released with the starwatchers van, there is alot of shadows on the driveway area, suggesting a different time of the day, therefore, a different day all together. ;)
-
Thanks ladymedic for your great post! :D
Made me see some points in a new light. But there are still some things remaining:
You are right, there needn´t be IV lines in the arm, where a vein hardly can be found when circulation breaks down.
It makes more sense to put the IV canula supraclavicular ( in the neck ), sorry I only know the German terminus for it.
But: shouldn´t there any IV line be seen anyway?
And: the pad which fixes the IV line on the neck looks exactly the same as on the amb photo in 1985, a comparison can be seen on youtube ( sorry I still don´t know how to transfer youtube here ). This only makes sense when there exist prepared equal-sized pads from the factory.
If not, it´s only fixed with a white tape. Then, why does it look exactly the same as in 1985?
There are still some other things that still seem odd to me.But first I have to go to work. Babys are waiting... :mrgreen:
Love & Peace
-
As a nurse I have personally been on more "codes" than I can remember but I will tell you from personal experience, yes, eyes are usually open as is the mouth. But what I see in this picture is not someone who has been "dead" for sometime. My reason is from my experiences within 20 minutes of death a body begins to get a "wax look to it. This also happens just prior to death from other aligments other than an M.I. This person does not fit my profile and was one of the very first things I noticed when I began to doubt the "death". Also, EKG pads could be under shirt and out of sight and the Ambo man with hand on chest "could" be looking at the monitor to see if there is any electrical activity.(however we have learned the on/off in different pics) The intubation looks very "crappy" imo but maybe they were in a hurry and it is not the most easy of procedures under pressure/time. The IV looks to be a Jugular, a very large vein not often used in "rapid response" unless no other suitable sites can be found. But to close my point mainly is waxing has not occured and by the time estimates they "say" he was dead, he should be looking like Elvis did o long time ago......
-
well, i ruled out a sub-clave due to only a doctor can perform, but i guess there was a doc there....so my bad or not.
-
As a nurse I have personally been on more "codes" than I can remember but I will tell you from personal experience, yes, eyes are usually open as is the mouth. But what I see in this picture is not someone who has been "dead" for sometime. My reason is from my experiences within 20 minutes of death a body begins to get a "wax look to it. This also happens just prior to death from other aligments other than an M.I. This person does not fit my profile and was one of the very first things I noticed when I began to doubt the "death". Also, EKG pads could be under shirt and out of sight and the Ambo man with hand on chest "could" be looking at the monitor to see if there is any electrical activity.(however we have learned the on/off in different pics) The intubation looks very "crappy" imo but maybe they were in a hurry and it is not the most easy of procedures under pressure/time. The IV looks to be a Jugular, a very large vein not often used in "rapid response" unless no other suitable sites can be found. But to close my point mainly is waxing has not occured and by the time estimates they "say" he was dead, he should be looking like Elvis did o long time ago......
Do you think that the eyes could be closed again after death ? If the timeline is correct, MJ could have been dead for at least 2.5 hrs. That's the first thing that got my attention. The rooms temperature was hot..wouldn't this cause the body to decompose sooner, or is it a trick CM learnt to affect the time of death estimation??
Good to have another medico on board. Does the head have to be tilted back to help establish a better airway via the canula ???? Is that why we see a blue pillow under his neck?
If the paramedics are actors, they would have had alot of medical advice to fake such an elaborate picture, but I believe they are regular paramedics, who have a gag order and are just doing what they are told to do from the FBI and DEA.
-
Hi TS hope you're doing fine, God bless you.
2good you posted an interesting picture I think because we see that the interior design of the ambulance (where we see the leaf pattern on the pictures) is not of one unified color, it's like they're already "shadows" on it.
So can it be that the leaf pattern is just an illusion due to light and angle? Now we must admit that it is very odd that we all have seen a face and that in the last picture the face seems to have eyes opened and is smiling as to symbolize "resurrection".
-
ok were we not told there was an iv in the leg? was it pulled at some point during murry's clean up efforts? if not would paramedics need to start a new one or would they use what was already there? bare with me please if i am slow on this :oops:
-
Thanks Lady medic.......CM said that MJ died with his eyes wide open.....so if he had been dead for sometime, would it be hard to close them shut, like we see in the ambulance...considering he should have been dead for some time ??????
The pics I posted are from the re-enactment of MJ's death.
Now look at these findings.......this is from another ambulance..78
LOOK AT THE PATTERNS ON THE DECOR
what i am trying to find out is if you stopped a video , did a screen shot or what ever sorry i am not techie. :oops:
-
ok i am just goin to lay out what i think and you guys who know about this stuff can critique me.
i think maybe this was done using video and computer. i noticed on the ambulance video when they go from one scene to the next a sort of overlapping or blending . i don't know the in's and out's of whether it can be done or not. but if it is possible and it wasn't done with a regular camera ,which i assume is made specificly to get clear individual shots then ben definately lied.
like i said i am going mostly on feeling so :?
-
I really feel we need a conclusion about this redirect
-
how about : and they lived happily ever after : the end ;)
-
The head is tilted back to provide an open airway, no matter if being bagged, mouth to mouth or intubated. If 2.5 hours is correct and eyes were open there is no way the eyes would close as in pic. Morticians use glue to seal the eyes and also lips. If one was to close the eyelids shortly after death it is possible to close the eyelids. But the longer a body sits rigamortis sets in , the blood will begin to "pool" all along the lowest parts of the body, in this case, back, butt, back of thighs and calf. In my experience it does not take very long for riga to start as in preparing a body for transfer certain "deeds" must be done and they become stiff and rigid. But again, the "wax" appearance sets in as well fairly quickly and the picture def is not of 2.5 hour dead MJ as the skin is still supple. anywho...
-
also if the Para"s didn't know it was MJ , I doubt very seriously they would continue to defib, admin drugs, cpr and fluids for that long off a period. The longest code I have done was an hour, and i broke every rib that persons body and most codes if you dont get them back in 10 mins or so it ain"t happening. MJ only had a few broken ribs. If you dont break em, your not doing it right. To simulate the hearts circulation takes alot of force to properly profuse the body and prevent cell death. So imo a regular citzen wouldnt get such an extended attempt to revive so did they or did they not know who it was? And an extended attempt to revive would equal more broken ribs and esp since MJ was so "frail". It dont add up either way.
-
how about : and they lived happily ever after : the end ;)
The thread is becoming so long that i can't even remember what it was about....
I think we had to find out if the paramedics were in the hoax and if the ambulance was real.
I remember we came to the conclusion that FBI has to be in, also LAFD, this making it obvious that the paramedics are in too.
TS kind of confirmed these conclusions, if he wasn't in the DA mode when he did it.
But when we thought we were about to graduate he came with that dark rectangle and since then we lost direction somehow.
-
@Allingoodtime thank you for your posts. I never knew CPR isn't properly done if the ribs aren't broken :shock: .
And that the eyes can't be closed so easily after 2.5 hour after death.
As almost everybody said, Michael in the ambulance pic looks much younger and to me he doesn't look like a dead man. There is a soul in that body.
-
Or maybe Murray was right and Michael was alive when they arrived at UCLA.
-
Or maybe Murray was right and Michael was alive when they arrived at UCLA.
the other day ;)
-
Or maybe Murray was right and Michael was alive when they arrived at UCLA.
the other day ;)
Can you make a theory about it?
I would be grateful to anyone who could clear the mess in my head right now :?
-
Or maybe Murray was right and Michael was alive when they arrived at UCLA.
the other day ;)
Can you make a theory about it?
I would be grateful to anyone who could clear the mess in my head right now :?
[youtube:t9g58jju]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7EoRMe1cTY[/youtube:t9g58jju]
-
ok were we not told there was an iv in the leg? was it pulled at some point during murry's clean up efforts? if not would paramedics need to start a new one or would they use what was already there? bare with me please if i am slow on this :oops:
Whereever the IV was, why wasn´t any IV line to be seen when they arrived at UCLA?
You see, I get hooked on this... :?
And the paramedics weren´t in a hurry, when they drove the stretcher through the UCLA entrance.
As far as I know, Doc Murray didn´t want to pronounce Michael dead until they arrived there, so they should continue their efforts in CPR. Why then a slow, romantic walk through the gate and no hurry?
-
how about : and they lived happily ever after : the end ;)
The thread is becoming so long that i can't even remember what it was about....
I think we had to find out if the paramedics were in the hoax and if the ambulance was real.
I remember we came to the conclusion that FBI has to be in, also LAFD, this making it obvious that the paramedics are in too.
TS kind of confirmed these conclusions, if he wasn't in the DA mode when he did it.
But when we thought we were about to graduate he came with that dark rectangle and since then we lost direction somehow.
Sorry, circumstances have taken me away from much attention here recently. Will be back soon.
-
how about : and they lived happily ever after : the end ;)
The thread is becoming so long that i can't even remember what it was about....
I think we had to find out if the paramedics were in the hoax and if the ambulance was real.
I remember we came to the conclusion that FBI has to be in, also LAFD, this making it obvious that the paramedics are in too.
TS kind of confirmed these conclusions, if he wasn't in the DA mode when he did it.
But when we thought we were about to graduate he came with that dark rectangle and since then we lost direction somehow.
Sorry, circumstances have taken me away from much attention here recently. Will be back soon.
Take your time ,i personally,will keep watching.
-
how about : and they lived happily ever after : the end ;)
The thread is becoming so long that i can't even remember what it was about....
I think we had to find out if the paramedics were in the hoax and if the ambulance was real.
I remember we came to the conclusion that FBI has to be in, also LAFD, this making it obvious that the paramedics are in too.
TS kind of confirmed these conclusions, if he wasn't in the DA mode when he did it.
But when we thought we were about to graduate he came with that dark rectangle and since then we lost direction somehow.
Sorry, circumstances have taken me away from much attention here recently. Will be back soon.
[/b][/i][/color]
well we have prayers warriors if there is a need :D
-
Take all the time you need TS, you will be in my prayers friend. Sending you love and a big hug!! :) <3
-
TS, I am not good at investigating, but I can say this sincerely with all my heart, take all the time you need my friend. May God bless you and keep you and help you through. We will leave the light on for you so you can find your way home to us. Take care, Love To You.
-
Take as much time as you need TS. We'll still be here. God bless and keep you and be your comfort and refuge.
-
also if the Para"s didn't know it was MJ , I doubt very seriously they would continue to defib, admin drugs, cpr and fluids for that long off a period. The longest code I have done was an hour, and i broke every rib that persons body and most codes if you dont get them back in 10 mins or so it ain"t happening. MJ only had a few broken ribs. If you dont break em, your not doing it right. To simulate the hearts circulation takes alot of force to properly profuse the body and prevent cell death. So imo a regular citzen wouldnt get such an extended attempt to revive so did they or did they not know who it was? And an extended attempt to revive would equal more broken ribs and esp since MJ was so "frail". It dont add up either way.
If you dont break em, your not doing it right.
No no no no no!! This is NOT true at all!!!!!!! You sometimes break ribs, sometimes don't. But you should never use breaking ribs as an indicator that you're doing it correctly.
-
Very busy time with the death of the Legend "Elizabeth Taylor" Speak to you soon
TS.
Now, this is something I found out due to my own experiment with my own digital camera, and taking pictures throught the windows of my house at different angles and this is what I found out.......PS. Sorry about my lousy drawings.. ;) ;)
-
2good2betrue I think you make a good point. You are right, I think.
Your drawing is so funny :lol: :lol: :lol: . especially the MJ representation :lol:
But I give you an A for the effort !!
@TS, we're missing you always.
-
The photo of the ambulance was not on the 25th of June, the red car is parked there to see the real picture as it was taken that day, with that exaggerated reflection of the car in the photo. And I think the paramedics are on the hoax, remember that the call was made from the 9641 Sunset Boulevard in Beverly Hills Hotel, we must remember the screenshot to the address on the fire truck .. I do not think the paramedics are not able to find an address.
Yes that is a good reason for why the paramedics would be in it...so the paramedics got the address on the...whatever you call it...but then what about the 911 call...does that mean the 911 call is fake.
Because I am sure the paramedics would of noticed the difference in addresses on the phone and on their screen and I'm sure that is enough for the paramedics to see that there isn't something that adds up so they must be apart of the hoax.
@ T.S, hope your doing well. :)
-
2good2betrue I think you make a good point. You are right, I think.
Your drawing is so funny :lol: :lol: :lol: . especially the MJ representation :lol:
But I give you an A for the effort !!
@TS, we're missing you always.
I warned you the I was a lousy artist, but I guess you get my drift..... :D :D :D there is no way a relection of a parked car would show up in the reflection. The only reason they have photoshopped it into the image, is to hide something inside the ambulance, and that something must be the real empty stretcher, and I always wondered where someone so tall and huge like Conrad Murray was sitting ???? His legs should have shown up to....That day, for show, and the other day for the picture that was published....to show the world that MJ had died. What an illusion....
This is the picture of my kitchen, taken during the day, tilting the camera slightly down towards the floor....the reflection from the window is of the trees and the sky....spongebob stickers on the windows are compliments of my son.... :lol: :lol:
-
2good2betrue I think you make a good point. You are right, I think.
Your drawing is so funny :lol: :lol: :lol: . especially the MJ representation :lol:
But I give you an A for the effort !!
@TS, we're missing you always.
I warned you the I was a lousy artist, but I guess you get my drift..... :D :D :D there is no way a relection of a parked car would show up in the reflection. The only reason they have photoshopped it into the image, is to hide something inside the ambulance, and that something must be the real empty stretcher, and I always wondered where someone so tall and huge like Conrad Murray was sitting ???? His legs should have shown up to....That day, for show, and the other day for the picture that was published....to show the world that MJ had died. What an illusion....
This is the picture of my kitchen, taken during the day, tilting the camera slightly down towards the floor....the reflection from the window is of the trees and the sky....spongebob stickers on the windows are compliments of my son.... :lol: :lol:
OMG... :lol: :lol: ...I love the spongebob stickers.
You should do diagrams more often.
-
2good2betrue I think you make a good point. You are right, I think.
Your drawing is so funny :lol: :lol: :lol: . especially the MJ representation :lol:
But I give you an A for the effort !!
@TS, we're missing you always.
I warned you the I was a lousy artist, but I guess you get my drift..... :D :D :D there is no way a relection of a parked car would show up in the reflection. The only reason they have photoshopped it into the image, is to hide something inside the ambulance, and that something must be the real empty stretcher, and I always wondered where someone so tall and huge like Conrad Murray was sitting ???? His legs should have shown up to....That day, for show, and the other day for the picture that was published....to show the world that MJ had died. What an illusion....
This is the picture of my kitchen, taken during the day, tilting the camera slightly down towards the floor....the reflection from the window is of the trees and the sky....spongebob stickers on the windows are compliments of my son.... :lol: :lol:
OMG... :lol: :lol: ...I love the spongebob stickers.
You should do diagrams more often.
Oh gee...and thanks. Slow news day :lol: :lol:
-
2good2betrue I think you make a good point. You are right, I think.
Your drawing is so funny :lol: :lol: :lol: . especially the MJ representation :lol:
But I give you an A for the effort !!
@TS, we're missing you always.
I warned you the I was a lousy artist, but I guess you get my drift..... :D :D :D there is no way a relection of a parked car would show up in the reflection. The only reason they have photoshopped it into the image, is to hide something inside the ambulance, and that something must be the real empty stretcher, and I always wondered where someone so tall and huge like Conrad Murray was sitting ???? His legs should have shown up to....That day, for show, and the other day for the picture that was published....to show the world that MJ had died. What an illusion....
This is the picture of my kitchen, taken during the day, tilting the camera slightly down towards the floor....the reflection from the window is of the trees and the sky....spongebob stickers on the windows are compliments of my son.... :lol: :lol:
OMG... :lol: :lol: ...I love the spongebob stickers.
You should do diagrams more often.
Oh gee...and thanks. Slow news day :lol: :lol:
No really...your diagrams are easy to understand. :)
-
how about : and they lived happily ever after : the end ;)
The thread is becoming so long that i can't even remember what it was about....
I think we had to find out if the paramedics were in the hoax and if the ambulance was real.
I remember we came to the conclusion that FBI has to be in, also LAFD, this making it obvious that the paramedics are in too.
TS kind of confirmed these conclusions, if he wasn't in the DA mode when he did it.
But when we thought we were about to graduate he came with that dark rectangle and since then we lost direction somehow.
Sorry, circumstances have taken me away from much attention here recently. Will be back soon.
Sending you good thoughts, prayers, and good energy. You know us- we'll be here. Much love!
-
The photo of the ambulance was not on the 25th of June, the red car is parked there to see the real picture as it was taken that day, with that exaggerated reflection of the car in the photo. And I think the paramedics are on the hoax, remember that the call was made from the 9641 Sunset Boulevard in Beverly Hills Hotel, we must remember the screenshot to the address on the fire truck .. I do not think the paramedics are not able to find an address.
Yes that is a good reason for why the paramedics would be in it...so the paramedics got the address on the...whatever you call it...but then what about the 911 call...does that mean the 911 call is fake.
Because I am sure the paramedics would of noticed the difference in addresses on the phone and on their screen and I'm sure that is enough for the paramedics to see that there isn't something that adds up so they must be apart of the hoax.
@ T.S, hope your doing well. :)
As far as I understood from everything we have discussed with TS' guidance, the paramedics are in on the hoax BUT the question is; are the paramedics REAL paramedics who work for LAFD #71 and they know Michael's deal with the FBI OR are they FBI agents and not real paramedics? I think this is what we need to focus on. It can be both ways though. We know the paramedics testified at the hearing but still we do not know if they are real paramedics or just FBI agents.
-
The photo of the ambulance was not on the 25th of June, the red car is parked there to see the real picture as it was taken that day, with that exaggerated reflection of the car in the photo. And I think the paramedics are on the hoax, remember that the call was made from the 9641 Sunset Boulevard in Beverly Hills Hotel, we must remember the screenshot to the address on the fire truck .. I do not think the paramedics are not able to find an address.
Yes that is a good reason for why the paramedics would be in it...so the paramedics got the address on the...whatever you call it...but then what about the 911 call...does that mean the 911 call is fake.
Because I am sure the paramedics would of noticed the difference in addresses on the phone and on their screen and I'm sure that is enough for the paramedics to see that there isn't something that adds up so they must be apart of the hoax.
@ T.S, hope your doing well. :)
As far as I understood from everything we have discussed with TS' guidance, the paramedics are in on the hoax BUT the question is; are the paramedics REAL paramedics who work for LAFD #71 and they know Michael's deal with the FBI OR are they FBI agents and not real paramedics? I think this is what we need to focus on. It can be both ways though. We know the paramedics testified at the hearing but still we do not know if they are real paramedics or just FBI agents.
I think the FBI's goal was to help create the illusion Michael died and at the same time, whisk Michael away to safety. If this is the case, the station #71 would've been approached by the FBI for cooperation and the station has to go along with it and not say anything afterwards. The whole station would not have to be aware, perhaps just the guy at the top or a couple of individuals. The FBI create the ambulance photo with whatever techniques they're using these days in the real ambulance then dispatch their own agents on June 25th in that same ambulance OR real paramedics are dispatched and are aware of the sting operation and are told to go to the house on Carolwood, hang out for a bit, then back out very slowly. If it's a sting operation then those involved cannot say anything about their involvement. Once the illusion is created, the FBI are able to observe the people in Michael's life who may have been a danger to him.
I also think the ambulance backing out of the gates so slowly is a pretty big clue. Why wasn't it turned around in the driveway before leaving as it could've easily been done? Why the agonizingly slow exit, an almost dream-like this-isn't-happening scene....maybe it was an indication that there was something going on in the yard blocked from view by the ambulance. Maybe the ambulance was waiting for the tour bus to drive by (witnesses). Or maybe the slowness itself was to say this is all an illusion.
-
These are some pictures of the paramedics from station 71.
Just thought I would experiment a little bit more with those amb. photos. I inverted the colours, and you can see thing more clearly.
-
And these are the inverted colour pictures.
-
Are the ambo in the hoax" Yes, if the motive is good enough, or they are just normal FBI undercover. If we can see pictures of the paramedics that appeared in court, and compare them with the pics I posted aboy..then we have an answer. ;)
As you can see, the lilac/green colours, are the shadows from the window.
Also, ambulance 71 has the same patterned interior, the has easily decieved us, when most of the panels have a washed look decor...easily could just be the lighting or illusion.
-
The photo of the ambulance was not on the 25th of June, the red car is parked there to see the real picture as it was taken that day, with that exaggerated reflection of the car in the photo. And I think the paramedics are on the hoax, remember that the call was made from the 9641 Sunset Boulevard in Beverly Hills Hotel, we must remember the screenshot to the address on the fire truck .. I do not think the paramedics are not able to find an address.
Yes that is a good reason for why the paramedics would be in it...so the paramedics got the address on the...whatever you call it...but then what about the 911 call...does that mean the 911 call is fake.
Because I am sure the paramedics would of noticed the difference in addresses on the phone and on their screen and I'm sure that is enough for the paramedics to see that there isn't something that adds up so they must be apart of the hoax.
@ T.S, hope your doing well. :)
As far as I understood from everything we have discussed with TS' guidance, the paramedics are in on the hoax BUT the question is; are the paramedics REAL paramedics who work for LAFD #71 and they know Michael's deal with the FBI OR are they FBI agents and not real paramedics? I think this is what we need to focus on. It can be both ways though. We know the paramedics testified at the hearing but still we do not know if they are real paramedics or just FBI agents.
I think the FBI's goal was to help create the illusion Michael died and at the same time, whisk Michael away to safety. If this is the case, the station #71 would've been approached by the FBI for cooperation and the station has to go along with it and not say anything afterwards. The whole station would not have to be aware, perhaps just the guy at the top or a couple of individuals. The FBI create the ambulance photo with whatever techniques they're using these days in the real ambulance then dispatch their own agents on June 25th in that same ambulance OR real paramedics are dispatched and are aware of the sting operation and are told to go to the house on Carolwood, hang out for a bit, then back out very slowly. If it's a sting operation then those involved cannot say anything about their involvement. Once the illusion is created, the FBI are able to observe the people in Michael's life who may have been a danger to him.
I also think the ambulance backing out of the gates so slowly is a pretty big clue. Why wasn't it turned around in the driveway before leaving as it could've easily been done? Why the agonizingly slow exit, an almost dream-like this-isn't-happening scene....maybe it was an indication that there was something going on in the yard blocked from view by the ambulance. Maybe the ambulance was waiting for the tour bus to drive by (witnesses). Or maybe the slowness itself was to say this is all an illusion.
Totally agree with you Andrea. And I do believe that there're some key people in everywhere. Not everyone knows about the hoax like not all of the FBI or LAFD know about the hoax. And like you wrote, when FBI is involved nobody can speak anything about the issue. And yes, the ambulance going backwards was another big clue and I saw that one of the media questioned about why it was getting out of the house backwards. More people needed to question it but non-believers say that Michael was already dead when the paramedics arrived home so there was no need to rush him to hospital. We received contradicting stories about it like he was already dead when the ambulance arrived, or he died at the hospital etc. People find an excuse whenever they want to like non-believers do all the time.
The paramedics can be the real deal or the FBI but this brings another question to my mind. If the paramedics were already in on the hoax; where did the "heated room in the middle of summer" go? The room was never heated at all and that was a rumour? I used to think that the paramedics were not aware of the hoax and a real dead body was used. But as long as the paramedics are in on the hoax, there was no need to use a dead body. So where did the "heated room" go? If that was a clue, what was it for?
-
These are some pictures of the paramedics from station 71.
Just thought I would experiment a little bit more with those amb. photos. I inverted the colours, and you can see thing more clearly.
Thank you for the pictures 2good. Do you see anyone similar with these guys in the ambo pictures or the videos? I couldn't decide since we can not see their faces clearly.
-
Hello everyone! :D
I wanted to say what an amazing forum this is! I don't feel CRAZY after i found you guys! :)
So i just wanted to share my thoughts on this topic)
1.- The "leaf-like pattern" did not look to me as leaf pattern at all, i did not recognize any leafs there. (It actually took me some time to understand what you guys were talking about :oops: ) But the more i looked at it the more i started to recognize "leafs" on that image. On that moment i thought that my brain started to create stuff that were not actually there or it could've been the other way around, my brain could've not seen things that were actually there until i spend more time looking at that image. (sorry if i'm a bit too confusing, English is not my first language)
2.- The other thing about the "leaf-like pattern" was that everybody obviously saw Michael's face in it. I totally agree with it, it does remind me of MJ's face :) BUT only the first two pictures:Ambulance 1 and Ambulance 2. On the other two pictures i can't see the face, it's kind of washed out or very light. (sorry do not know how to insert pictures here, maybe someone could help me with that?)
3.- When TS gave us this link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMB5gfcVChg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMB5gfcVChg), the video inside Ambulance #71, i guess everyone saw random patterns on the cabinet and the entire bottom part of the walls. So my opinion is that "leaf-like pattern" was created by light, especially it's possible if those cabinets and panels are made of some kind of metal stuff. Another thing is very suspicious to me on that video is that guy who works at the station #71 said something weird at 10:45. The guy with camera told him that there are people who believe that Michael Jackson is alive and he didn't die, the guys who works there started laughing and said: "Um. That's what they said... you know, that he is basically dead. That's what they said on the news and stuff". On the NEWS AND STUFF??? Why could he just say something like: "Well the paramedics who went there that day actually saw him dead and i don't know why would people think that he is alive". He is working with those paramedics why would he rely on something what news said, when he can actually talk to people who saw Michael "dead" that day? Please correct me if i'm wrong.
4.- Could this "face" been shopped in to the picture? I HAVE NO IDEA. I know nothing about how you can Photoshop pictures. But i see no reason for "face" to be shopped in to the picture. Maybe i missed something, please let me know if there is a reason.
5.- The "face" cannot be a reflection or a shadow of leafs from outside, in my opinion only. On the pictures i see that the shadow from left paramedic's arm is actually overlapping the the "face", not the other way around. And the shadow is actually moving from right to left and overlapping more parts of the "face", so it means that the guy was actually moving to the left (from our perspective). That makes me think that the "face" is part of the cabinet.
6. - The ambulance picture is fake for sure. The so called reflections that we see: red car, wall, trees ect., are not supposed to be there in my opinion. Instead there was supposed to be a reflection of a camera, fingers or hands of a photographer and a little bit of a background. There MUST be a reflection of a camera, simply because the guy who supposedly took that picture said that he was pressing his camera against the window. (don't remember if the photographer said it himself or the other guy said it to him)
7. - Were paramedics real or they were FBI agents i honestly don't know for sure. It's very confusing. I believe that the picture was staged before June 25th and if they were real paramedics i think it would be much more convincing to show us faces of these 2 guys on the pictures and i don't think it would be a problem to them. But if those guys are FBI agents or MJ's friends then obviously they won't show their faces to us.
8.- Regarding the Sting Operation i think that this article is very interesting http://www.tmz.com/2011/03/24/dr-murray ... ankruptcy/ (http://www.tmz.com/2011/03/24/dr-murray-propofol-applied-pharmacy-michael-jackson-shut-down-las-vegas-bankruptcy/)
9.- Almost forgot. I'm not sure if there was dummy or MJ himself on the picture, but i remember when i was reading his book "Moonwalker" he said that he actually enjoyed the ride in the ambulance on that horrible day when he got burned during Pepsi commercial. I'll try to find quotes from this book, but i'm sure that someone else has to remember him saying it.
Wow that was long! :?
L.O.V.E to all :D
-
Hi Kristina4LOVE
Its good to see you here, welcome to our family and investigative team. :D
You have some very good observations.
I shall give them some thought.
Love to you xxx
:P
By the way I think your english is excellent ;)
-
Let me also make an effort to get to the next level.
Perhaps the leaves/face we see on the left side are a reflection of one of MJ famous jackets (shoulder part).
(I don't know how to put a picture in here)
:o
-
What if the ambulance photo is two photos merged together, one on top of the other or something. The staged ambulance photo with the MJ "dummy" that was taken the "other day" in the real ambulance, and then the "street reflection" photo taken (just the street itself - the car, leaves, etc), maybe on June 25th so it would match up. Then the two photos were merged (layered) so as to appear like it was taken on June 25th outside the Carolwood home.
-
Hi Kristina4LOVE
Its good to see you here, welcome to our family and investigative team. :D
You have some very good observations.
I shall give them some thought.
Love to you xxx
:P
By the way I think your english is excellent ;)
Thank you Ijustcantstoplovingu! :D
I'm very very very happy to be a part of this family!
I still have to catch up on a lot of information, which is presented on this forum, because to be completely honest i BELIEVE THAT MICHAEL IS ALIVE only for the past 1,5 month :oops: The thought of him being alive never ran through my mind, until i got sign from above. The dream i saw made me dig internet and when i found you guys everything was clear to me!
MICHAEL IS ALIVE AND HE IS GOING TO SAVE US! :D
-
What if the ambulance photo is two photos merged together, one on top of the other or something. The staged ambulance photo with the MJ "dummy" that was taken the "other day" in the real ambulance, and then the "street reflection" photo taken (just the street itself - the car, leaves, etc), maybe on June 25th so it would match up. Then the two photos were merged (layered) so as to appear like it was taken on June 25th outside the Carolwood home.
This totally makes sense! Sounds very simple to do.
-
God Bless you TS and God please be with Michael in this time. I can't even imagine what he must be feeling right now. I can't talk or write about it and keep any composure!
-
Hello everyone! :D
I wanted to say what an amazing forum this is! I don't feel CRAZY after i found you guys! :)
:shock: :x :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: ;)
So i just wanted to share my thoughts on this topic)
1.- The "leaf-like pattern" did not look to me as leaf pattern at all, i did not recognize any leafs there. (It actually took me some time to understand what you guys were talking about :oops: ) But the more i looked at it the more i started to recognize "leafs" on that image. On that moment i thought that my brain started to create stuff that were not actually there or it could've been the other way around, my brain could've not seen things that were actually there until i spend more time looking at that image. (sorry if i'm a bit too confusing, English is not my first language)
2.- The other thing about the "leaf-like pattern" was that everybody obviously saw Michael's face in it. I totally agree with it, it does remind me of MJ's face :) BUT only the first two pictures:Ambulance 1 and Ambulance 2. On the other two pictures i can't see the face, it's kind of washed out or very light. (sorry do not know how to insert pictures here, maybe someone could help me with that?)
3.- When TS gave us this link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMB5gfcVChg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMB5gfcVChg), the video inside Ambulance #71, i guess everyone saw random patterns on the cabinet and the entire bottom part of the walls. So my opinion is that "leaf-like pattern" was created by light, especially it's possible if those cabinets and panels are made of some kind of metal stuff. Another thing is very suspicious to me on that video is that guy who works at the station #71 said something weird at 10:45. The guy with camera told him that there are people who believe that Michael Jackson is alive and he didn't die, the guys who works there started laughing and said: "Um. That's what they said... you know, that he is basically dead. That's what they said on the news and stuff". On the NEWS AND STUFF??? Why could he just say something like: "Well the paramedics who went there that day actually saw him dead and i don't know why would people think that he is alive". He is working with those paramedics why would he rely on something what news said, when he can actually talk to people who saw Michael "dead" that day? Please correct me if i'm wrong.
4.- Could this "face" been shopped in to the picture? I HAVE NO IDEA. I know nothing about how you can Photoshop pictures. But i see no reason for "face" to be shopped in to the picture. Maybe i missed something, please let me know if there is a reason.
5.- The "face" cannot be a reflection or a shadow of leafs from outside, in my opinion only. On the pictures i see that the shadow from left paramedic's arm is actually overlapping the the "face", not the other way around. And the shadow is actually moving from right to left and overlapping more parts of the "face", so it means that the guy was actually moving to the left (from our perspective). That makes me think that the "face" is part of the cabinet.
6. - The ambulance picture is fake for sure. The so called reflections that we see: red car, wall, trees ect., are not supposed to be there in my opinion. Instead there was supposed to be a reflection of a camera, fingers or hands of a photographer and a little bit of a background. There MUST be a reflection of a camera, simply because the guy who supposedly took that picture said that he was pressing his camera against the window. (don't remember if the photographer said it himself or the other guy said it to him)
7. - Were paramedics real or they were FBI agents i honestly don't know for sure. It's very confusing. I believe that the picture was staged before June 25th and if they were real paramedics i think it would be much more convincing to show us faces of these 2 guys on the pictures and i don't think it would be a problem to them. But if those guys are FBI agents or MJ's friends then obviously they won't show their faces to us.
8.- Regarding the Sting Operation i think that this article is very interesting http://www.tmz.com/2011/03/24/dr-murray ... ankruptcy/ (http://www.tmz.com/2011/03/24/dr-murray-propofol-applied-pharmacy-michael-jackson-shut-down-las-vegas-bankruptcy/)
9.- Almost forgot. I'm not sure if there was dummy or MJ himself on the picture, but i remember when i was reading his book "Moonwalker" he said that he actually enjoyed the ride in the ambulance on that horrible day when he got burned during Pepsi commercial. I'll try to find quotes from this book, but i'm sure that someone else has to remember him saying it.
Wow that was long! :?
L.O.V.E to all :D
i bet we make alot of people feel pretty darn sane :lol:
-
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12439)
The white fireman/paramedic pouring the pancake batter is the same one in the Hollywood.tv video helping the ambulance back out of the driveway. He is also shown putting the orange cones on the ground. So clearly he is a REAL fireman/paramedic. Not FBI. 8-)
[youtube:y8v0izle]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuXRaJFdmKU[/youtube:y8v0izle]
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12438)
The guy circled in this picture is also seen in the Hollywood.tv video close to the end. He is walking towards and up into the driveway at the 1:45 mark when the white truck is driving by. He clearly is a REAL fireman/paramedic. I believe these two guys came to Michael's house in the fire truck and were not the ones that drove the ambulance to the hospital (pictured in the hospital entrance wheeling the gurney in). 8-)
(http://newsone.com/files/2011/01/ambulance-arrives-at-hospital-with-michael-jackson.jpg)
Obviously they can't guide the ambulance out the driveway, set orange cones on the ground and also be seen walking up the driveway after the ambulance has been shown driving backwards and away down the street at the same time these guys are doing their job. All of the above is my opinion of course but common sense and eyesight should be enough to realize the men I spoke about are in the pictures and video excluding the hospital entrance picture. ;)
Peace
-
9.- Almost forgot. I'm not sure if there was dummy or MJ himself on the picture, but i remember when i was reading his book "Moonwalker" he said that he actually enjoyed the ride in the ambulance on that horrible day when he got burned during Pepsi commercial. I'll try to find quotes from this book, but i'm sure that someone else has to remember him saying it.
I found the quote from "Moonwalker"
"Miko Brando, who works for me, was the first person to reach me. After that, it was chaos. It was crazy. No film could properly capture the drama of what went on that night. The crowd was screaming. Someone shouted,"Get some ice!" There were frantic running sounds. People were yelling,"Oh no!" The emergency truck came up and before they put me in i saw the Pepsi executives huddled together in a corner, looking terrified. I remember the medical people putting me on a cot and the guys from Pepsi were so scared they couldn't even bring themselves to check on me.
Meanwhile, i was kind of detached, despite the terrible pain. I was watching all the drama unfold. Later they told me i was in shock, but i remember enjoying the ride to the hospital because i never thought I'd ride in an ambulance with the sirens wailing. It was one of those things i had always wanted to do when i was growing up. When we got there, they told me there were news crews outside, so i asked for my glove. There's a famous shot of me waving from the stretcher with my glove on" - chapter six: All you need is Love
-
9.- Almost forgot. I'm not sure if there was dummy or MJ himself on the picture, but i remember when i was reading his book "Moonwalker" he said that he actually enjoyed the ride in the ambulance on that horrible day when he got burned during Pepsi commercial. I'll try to find quotes from this book, but i'm sure that someone else has to remember him saying it.
I found the quote from "Moonwalker"
"Miko Brando, who works for me, was the first person to reach me. After that, it was chaos. It was crazy. No film could properly capture the drama of what went on that night. The crowd was screaming. Someone shouted,"Get some ice!" There were frantic running sounds. People were yelling,"Oh no!" The emergency truck came up and before they put me in i saw the Pepsi executives huddled together in a corner, looking terrified. I remember the medical people putting me on a cot and the guys from Pepsi were so scared they couldn't even bring themselves to check on me.
Meanwhile, i was kind of detached, despite the terrible pain. I was watching all the drama unfold. Later they told me i was in shock, but i remember enjoying the ride to the hospital because i never thought I'd ride in an ambulance with the sirens wailing. It was one of those things i had always wanted to do when i was growing up. When we got there, they told me there were news crews outside, so i asked for my glove. There's a famous shot of me waving from the stretcher with my glove on" - chapter six: All you need is Love
Get some ICE? Worst you can put on a burned skin is ice, it makes the skin come off. Trust me I know, I burned myself many times and I learned this the hard way. Best thing to do is lukewarm water and gum tree bandages. So it's weird they would want to put ice on his scalp.
It sounds strange, but they say it IS fun to ride in the back of an ambulance. My father is a carpenter and he sawed off three of his fingers two years ago. They had to transport him to a hospital that was ecxperienced in this to try and save his hand and they had to transport him through traffic jam. Although he was in horrible pain, one of the first things he told me when he woke up, was that the ambulance ride was so cool. :? :lol:
-
Debunking the theory of the paramedics who arrived at Michael's house on 6/25/2009 being FBI. Only 1 key person is needed at Fire station 71. That is the fire captain. 8-)
[youtube:283cvbel]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggewNtwvHJ4[/youtube:283cvbel]
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12440) Paramedic Blount A shift. Paramedic Senneff C shift BOTH REAL. NOT FBI. ;)
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2 ... spita.html (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/01/michael-jackson-hearing-paparazzi-fans-hampered-paramedics-from-getting-stricken-pop-star-to-hospita.html)
Michael Jackson hearing: Paparazzi, fans hampered paramedics from getting stricken pop star to hospital
January 6, 2011 | 10:58 am
A paramedic who tried in vain to save Michael Jackson’s life testified Thursday that an unruly crowd of paparazzi and tourists outside the pop star’s home hampered efforts to get to the hospital recalled Los Angeles City Fire Department paramedic Richard “It’s a circus out there. It’s unbelievable,” Richard Senneff of the scene outside Jackson’s Holmby Hills mansion June 25, 2009.
The witness testified on the second day of testimony at a hearing to determine whether there is enough evidence to try Dr. Conrad Murray for involuntary manslaughter.
Senneff said that the ambulance driver had trouble navigating away from the residence because of a throng that included passengers of a tour bus and photographers with “big cameras, little cameras, video cameras, still cameras.”
At one point, a man with a video camera ran alongside the ambulance holding a camera with a large lens against the window. “It just seemed wrong,” he said. Under questioning by a defense lawyer, Senneff said Murray wanted to put a “central line” to restart Jackson’s heart, but that medics did not have equipment or training to do so.
He said the singer did not respond to two rounds of drugs to revive him and hospital officials told him over the radio to “call” Jackson’s death, but that neither he nor Murray wanted to do so. “I said, 'Be advised, this is a very high-profile VIP,' ” Senneff said.
The 50-year-old singer was pronounced dead at UCLA Medical Center. Senneff said rescue workers had gone “above and beyond” the call of duty in the field not because Jackson was a celebrity, but “because it was someone’s son.” Katherine Jackson, the singer’s mother, listened intently in the courtroom gallery. Judge Michael Pastor also heard from a second paramedic who, like Senneff, said that Murray initially claimed he had not given his patient any medication.
Martin Blount said the denial struck him as odd because he saw a hypodermic needle and three bottles of lidocaine in the room. Murray, he said, “scooped up” the bottles and placed them in a bag before they left for the hospital. “Did you ever see those bottles again,” Deputy Dist. Atty. David Walgren asked. “No, sir,” Blount replied. Murray, 57, has pleaded not guilty.
Prosecutors accuse Murray of an “extreme deviation” from the standard of medical care by, among other things, giving Jackson the surgical anesthetic propofol to treat insomnia.
I am posting this article to disprove the hoax regarding the theory/reason why the ambulance drove backwards and slowly. Paramedic Senneff gives the reason for that. Blame it on the fans and paps why they couldn't save Michael, shifting blame onto fans and paps will supposedly relieve him from any harm/blame to the King of Pop. 8-) ;) He also gives credibility to Ben's pic by saying "At one point, a man with a video camera ran alongside the ambulance holding a camera with a large lens against the window."
I am also posting some questions that can be either pro hoax or against depending how the questions are answered.
Q-What would be considered going above and beyond the call of duty?
Q-Why didn't he (Senneff) want to call the time of death either even though the hospital told him to do so?
Q-How many paramedics were actually in that ambulance?
According to Senneff's testimony there was a driver, himself, and Blount. So that is 3 but only two testified?[/color]
Another point I want to add to this is that IF Michael/the patient was already DOA when the paramedics got to the house and they tried to do CPR there for a good amount of time; the ambulance would not need to be in a hurry when leaving because the patient is already gone.
To the airport! lol
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309040#p309040 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309040#p309040)
I was playing non-believer when I originally posted the article in the TIAI 2/26 thread.
-
At one point, a man with a video camera ran alongside the ambulance holding a camera with a large lens against the window. “
have we been operating on the thought that he was using a still photo camara?
-
At one point, a man with a video camera ran alongside the ambulance holding a camera with a large lens against the window. “
have we been operating on the thought that he was using a still photo camara?
:shock: Good point, I had always thought it was an ordinary still camera, not considered that it was a video camera :o but how would that changes things :? :?:
Food for thought! indeed!
-
He said the singer did not respond to two rounds of drugs to revive him and hospital officials told him over the radio to “call” Jackson’s death, but that neither he nor Murray wanted to do so. “I said, 'Be advised, this is a very high-profile VIP,' ” Senneff said.
I thought they didn't recognise Michael Jackson the king of pop.???? But here they state they knew who it was. :? :? :? :?
-
So they are "real" paramedics, but if MJ was not dead in that ambulance, then they would know that and have to be playing a part in this, whether the FBI have requested their co-operation and have signed some agreement. If this case is a serious one, then there are more involved then I first thought.
The question I have is what power of authority can make regular employees, lie, and then testify under oath in court?? Who is controlling the puppet strings ?? Have they all signed a confidentiality agreement ??
The only way this can be pulled off, regardless of who or what was in the ambulance that day, is having the FBI and other government agencies involved. Otherwise this would have all fallen apart a long time ago. Someone would have talked by now.
And yes, I also think these are 2 different pictures overlapped, to create the illusion.
-
At one point, a man with a video camera ran alongside the ambulance holding a camera with a large lens against the window. “
have we been operating on the thought that he was using a still photo camara?
:shock: Good point, I had always thought it was an ordinary still camera, not considered that it was a video camera :o but how would that changes things :? :?:
Food for thought! indeed!
well for me personally i have noticed many times when i am looking for something in particular in a video i do the little stop start deal and it kind of blends a little . i also noticed in the little station house tour video that ts presented that it kind of blends when they segway from one part to another. so what would happen if you knew what you were doing and stoped started and so on and then did like screen shots ?( although i have to admit here i have not idea what is involved in a screen shot or anything else here so it is all hypothetical on my part) it is just like the makeup we have no idea what might be available that we have never seen to someone who does this for a living. lets not forget we are running with the big dogs :roll:
-
Do we know if these pics that we are analyzing the pics that were originally released?
-
Do we know if these pics that we are analyzing the pics that were originally released?
idk
all i know is we only seem to end up with more questions and no answers :(
-
What if the ambulance photo is two photos merged together, one on top of the other or something. The staged ambulance photo with the MJ "dummy" that was taken the "other day" in the real ambulance, and then the "street reflection" photo taken (just the street itself - the car, leaves, etc), maybe on June 25th so it would match up. Then the two photos were merged (layered) so as to appear like it was taken on June 25th outside the Carolwood home.
That was my conclusion. After 30+ pages that's what I still think.
-
What if the ambulance photo is two photos merged together, one on top of the other or something. The staged ambulance photo with the MJ "dummy" that was taken the "other day" in the real ambulance, and then the "street reflection" photo taken (just the street itself - the car, leaves, etc), maybe on June 25th so it would match up. Then the two photos were merged (layered) so as to appear like it was taken on June 25th outside the Carolwood home.
That was my conclusion. After 30+ pages that's what I still think.
Ya, I think that conclusion can answer a lot of objections. The angles, the can you or can't you take a pic through an ambulance window, the lighting, and so on.
-
so does the simple idea of it being photo shopped make ben a liar? is that the end result? if so what does it really mean. does it mean it didn't happen or that there simply was not last picture? what?
-
What if the ambulance photo is two photos merged together, one on top of the other or something. The staged ambulance photo with the MJ "dummy" that was taken the "other day" in the real ambulance, and then the "street reflection" photo taken (just the street itself - the car, leaves, etc), maybe on June 25th so it would match up. Then the two photos were merged (layered) so as to appear like it was taken on June 25th outside the Carolwood home.
That's the same thing I thought.
So if that is true no doubt the paramedics or whoever was in the ambulance (if they were real paramedics or not) are in the hoax.
So if we are trying to prove the paramedics know about the hoax, we have to prove that the ambo pic is photoshopped. How?
We also have to check if they are real paramedics or FBI agents, so are the ones in the ambulance the same paramedics who testified?...I think it must be because there is no need to have two separate paramedics for the testifying and for the June 25th picture...it seems a bit unnecessary.
-
bec wrote:
Andrea wrote:
What if the ambulance photo is two photos merged together, one on top of the other or something. The staged ambulance photo with the MJ "dummy" that was taken the "other day" in the real ambulance, and then the "street reflection" photo taken (just the street itself - the car, leaves, etc), maybe on June 25th so it would match up. Then the two photos were merged (layered) so as to appear like it was taken on June 25th outside the Carolwood home.
That was my conclusion. After 30+ pages
Yes, I agree
-
He said the singer did not respond to two rounds of drugs to revive him and hospital officials told him over the radio to “call” Jackson’s death, but that neither he nor Murray wanted to do so. “I said, 'Be advised, this is a very high-profile VIP,' ” Senneff said.
I thought they didn't recognise Michael Jackson the king of pop.???? But here they state they knew who it was. :? :? :? :?
http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/27/paramedic ... -arrived/3 (http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/27/paramedics-jackson-dead-when-we-arrived/3)
Paramedics: Jackson Dead When We Arrived
7/26/2009 9:30 PM PDT by TMZ Staff
Law enforcement sources tell us when paramedics arrived at Michael Jackson's house he was already dead ... and it took them a while to even realize the victim was the famous singer.
Our sources say when paramedics got to Jackson's home he was flatlined. There was no electrical activity in his heart and Jackson showed no sign of life.
Multiple sources say paramedics wanted to pronounce Jackson dead at the scene but Dr. Conrad Murray insisted that the singer be transported to the hospital. Dr. Murray -- as a higher medical authority than the EMTs -- had the power to overrule them.
Paramedics didn't realize for nearly 10 minutes the victim was Michael Jackson. As one emergency worker put it: "It just looked like a frail, old, sickly man."
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2009/07/27/0625_michael_jackson_ex-1.jpg)
Huh? What do you mean I looked like a frail old man? ;)
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=314346#p314238 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=314346#p314238)
[youtube:2zmoh4p9]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oftybkF__uc[/youtube:2zmoh4p9]
Uploaded by PoliticsNewsPolitics on Jun 26, 2009
The L.A. County Fire Department released the tape of the 911 call made when Michael Jackson went into cardiac arrest.
Im_convincedmjalive wrote:
The reason I believe the 911 dispatcher hung up sooner than one might expect is because Murray was on the scene and the 911 dispatcher stated he (Murray) has a higher authority than him. If Murray (Michael's personal physician) wasn't there than it would make sense for the 911 dispatcher to stay on the line and guide Alberto to do CPR.
-
2good2betrue I think you make a good point. You are right, I think.
Your drawing is so funny :lol: :lol: :lol: . especially the MJ representation :lol:
But I give you an A for the effort !!
@TS, we're missing you always.
I warned you the I was a lousy artist, but I guess you get my drift..... :D :D :D there is no way a relection of a parked car would show up in the reflection. The only reason they have photoshopped it into the image, is to hide something inside the ambulance, and that something must be the real empty stretcher, and I always wondered where someone so tall and huge like Conrad Murray was sitting ???? His legs should have shown up to....That day, for show, and the other day for the picture that was published....to show the world that MJ had died. What an illusion....
This is the picture of my kitchen, taken during the day, tilting the camera slightly down towards the floor....the reflection from the window is of the trees and the sky....spongebob stickers on the windows are compliments of my son.... :lol: :lol:
Now THAT is funny!!! :lol:
-
http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/27/paramedic ... -arrived/3 (http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/27/paramedics-jackson-dead-when-we-arrived/3)
Paramedics: Jackson Dead When We Arrived
7/26/2009 9:30 PM PDT by TMZ Staff
Law enforcement sources tell us when paramedics arrived at Michael Jackson's house he was already dead ... and it took them a while to even realize the victim was the famous singer.
Our sources say when paramedics got to Jackson's home he was flatlined. There was no electrical activity in his heart and Jackson showed no sign of life.
Multiple sources say paramedics wanted to pronounce Jackson dead at the scene but Dr. Conrad Murray insisted that the singer be transported to the hospital. Dr. Murray -- as a higher medical authority than the EMTs -- had the power to overrule them.[/u]Paramedics didn't realize for nearly 10 minutes the victim was Michael Jackson. As one emergency worker put it: "It just looked like a frail, old, sickly man." (http://ll-media.tmz.com/2009/07/27/0625_michael_jackson_ex-1.jpg)
Huh? What do you mean I looked like a frail old man? ;)
Right here is the key to find out whether CM helped Michel to hoax and it was dummy or dead cancer patient taken to hospital, or Michael put dummy and also got into the ambulance then hospital and disappeared with help of his bodyguards to safe his life from Murrey who tried to kill him.
-
how about : and they lived happily ever after : the end ;)
The thread is becoming so long that i can't even remember what it was about....
I think we had to find out if the paramedics were in the hoax and if the ambulance was real.
I remember we came to the conclusion that FBI has to be in, also LAFD, this making it obvious that the paramedics are in too.
TS kind of confirmed these conclusions, if he wasn't in the DA mode when he did it.
But when we thought we were about to graduate he came with that dark rectangle and since then we lost direction somehow.
Sorry, circumstances have taken me away from much attention here recently. Will be back soon.
Take your time, TS. We love you very much.
-
My 1st attempt to prove the picture is Photoshopped.
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=308590#p308590 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=308590#p308590)
http://www.photoshopessentials.com/basics/layers/layers-intro.php
From what I can gather from reading many people's thoughts on Photoshop pics (this includes other threads which talk of photoshop) many of you seem to think that Photoshop is done only one way. I read that many of you say there are no lines. I know your looking for the tracing, cut out and paste effect. That can be done that way and then the images smuged to match colors and blend together.
The other really neat thing you can do with Photoshop is LAYERS. The pic is Photoshopped using a layer effect. Click link for a tutorial ;)
Peace
My 2nd attempt to prove it is Photoshopped.
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309320#p309320 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309320#p309320)
Im_convincedmjalive wrote:
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance1.jpg)
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance2.jpg)
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance3.jpg)
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/Ambulance4.jpg)
http://www.photoshopessentials.com/phot ... ens-flare/ (http://www.photoshopessentials.com/photo-effects/lens-flare/)
(http://www.photoshopessentials.com/images/photo-effects/lens-flare/original-image.jpg)Original Image
(http://www.photoshopessentials.com/images/photo-effects/lens-flare/photoshop-lens-flare-effect.jpg)After Lens Flare is applied
My 3rd and final attempt to prove the Ambulance picture is fake and Photoshopped and NOT the real paramedics that showed up at Michael's house on 6/25/2009.
Fake, Photoshopped Ambulance picture has 2 WHITE guys in it.
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12440) Paramedic Blount A shift. Paramedic Senneff C shift BOTH REAL. NOT FBI.
Paramedic Blount is BLACK. Paramedic Senneff is WHITE.
Peace
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=850#p317161 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=850#p317161)
-
Jeffrey Mills was the third one and he is white.
Plus let's not forget about staff from the engine.
-
I'm very very very happy to be a part of this family!
I still have to catch up on a lot of information, which is presented on this forum, because to be completely honest i BELIEVE THAT MICHAEL IS ALIVE only for the past 1,5 month :oops: The thought of him being alive never ran through my mind, until i got sign from above. The dream i saw made me dig internet and when i found you guys everything was clear to me!
MICHAEL IS ALIVE AND HE IS GOING TO SAVE US! :D
Nice to have you here! Just wondering what your sign and dream was, or did you share it on a dreams thread already?
Im_convincedmjalive The white fireman/paramedic pouring the pancake batter is the same one in the Hollywood.tv video helping the ambulance back out of the driveway. He is also shown putting the orange cones on the ground. So clearly he is a REAL fireman/paramedic. Not FBI.
Why can he not be both FBI and paramedic. The FBI use 30,000 professionals in various fields to add their expertise and cover. It seems to me that the arm of the paramedic pushing the pancake batter device looks like the ambulance photo sitting guy. Almost seems the photo is a deliberate pose in the same arm/hand position and posted for hoax sleuthers.
At one point, a man with a video camera ran alongside the ambulance holding a camera with a large lens against the window. “
have we been operating on the thought that he was using a still photo camara?
:shock: Good point, I had always thought it was an ordinary still camera, not considered that it was a video camera :o but how would that changes things :? :?:
Food for thought! indeed!
Ben had the video camera and Chris Weiss had the still camera, but what I don't understand is why there has only been one still photo ever shown. Every other event MJ was captured the media would release several that are seconds or minutes apart. Even if the stills seconds before or after were not clear they still would have shown paramedics in different positions as one person mentioned it is vigorous exercise doing CPR. Ben was roaming all around the same window as Chris and his video should have captured something vaguely similar, and screen shots taken from his video collaborating Chris's single shot should exist, and would prove the famous shot was not shopped.
-
so does the simple idea of it being photo shopped make ben a liar? is that the end result? if so what does it really mean. does it mean it didn't happen or that there simply was not last picture? what?
Ben's not necessarily a liar.
He shot / prepared the thingie, just that he did not do it on the day WE assumed.
So we are mistaken by our very individual perception and very individual conclusion on what we perceived at first.
If we label Ben a liar, this expresses only our individual emotional disappointment (about ourselves first of all: we allowed deception to happen) and handling of that now stressing unbalanced ego situation - getting our individual stress calmed again by directing the frustration onto somebody else - who happens in this case to be the originator of our illusion.
In this emotional reaction to deception, calling somebody a liar is evaluation or plain judgement (basically shifting our own failure to somebody else).
Basic communication models may help in understanding this (see also communication "noises" who lay ground for misinterpretations and emotional reactions to communication):
Communication is the activity of conveying information. Communication requires a sender, a message, and an intended recipient, although the receiver need not be present or aware of the sender's intent to communicate at the time of communication; thus communication can occur across vast distances in time and space. Communication requires that the communicating parties share an area of communicative commonality. The communication process is complete once the receiver has understood the sender.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/Communication_emisor.jpg/270px-Communication_emisor.jpg)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Encoding_communication.jpg/270px-Encoding_communication.jpg)
Human communication
Human spoken and picture languages can be described as a system of symbols (sometimes known as lexemes) and the grammars (rules) by which the symbols are manipulated.The word "language" also refers to common properties of languages. Language learning normally occurs most intensively during human childhood. Most of the thousands of human languages use patterns of sound or gesture for symbols which enable communication with others around them. [...]
A variety of verbal and non-verbal means of communicating exists such as body language; eye contact, sign language, paralanguage, haptic communication, chronemics, and media such as pictures, graphics, sound, and writing.[...]
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/Communication_shannon-weaver2.svg/270px-Communication_shannon-weaver2.svg.png)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0d/Transactional_comm_model.jpg/270px-Transactional_comm_model.jpg)
Communication Noise
In any communication model, noise is interference with the decoding of messages sent over a channel by an encoder. There are many examples of noise:
Environmental Noise: Noise that physically disrupts communication, such as standing next to loud speakers at a party, or the noise from a construction site next to a classroom making it difficult to hear the professor.
Physiological-Impairment Noise: Physical maladies that prevent effective communication, such as actual deafness or blindness preventing messages from being received as they were intended.
Semantic Noise: Different interpretations of the meanings of certain words. For example, the word "weed" can be interpreted as an undesirable plant in your yard, or as a euphemism for marijuana.
Syntactical Noise: Mistakes in grammar can disrupt communication, such as abrupt changes in verb tense during a sentence.
Organizational Noise: Poorly structured communication can prevent the receiver from accurate interpretation. For example, unclear and badly stated directions can make the receiver even more lost.
Cultural Noise: Stereotypical assumptions can cause misunderstandings, such as unintentionally offending a non-Christian person by wishing them a "Merry Christmas".
Psychological Noise: Certain attitudes can also make communication difficult. For instance, great anger or sadness may cause someone to lose focus on the present moment. Disorders such as Autism may also severely hamper effective communication.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communication
If we take the above mentioned as examples of difficulties in communication, we may notice that already talking to somebody one on one bears the potential of not being understood as intended.
How much more will we run into difficulties of being understood when we are NOT talking one on one anymore but are using intermediary agents such as media (internet e.g.).
This makes also clear how well- and elementarily structured mass media have to be if somebody wants to use them for his purposes. Ever wondered how "shallow" mass media are? They have to be that way or they would have to deal with too many communication "noises" and would not get their intended "messages" across.
Barriers to successful communication include message overload (when a person receives too many messages at the same time), and message complexity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communication
Does this sound familiar?
Doesn't make one wonder why we don't get as far in our search as we would like to - it was predictable btw.
The more "pseudo"-information from multiple sources, the more confusion, the more distance to truth. The more "pseudo"-information items planted and leaked, the more time passing by, the more confusion, the more loss of memory and of "real" information, the more fog and the more hiding.
If we look at only the communication models' aspects and compare what we have witnessed (our "pseudo"-reality of planted and "leaked" information, utterances, interviews, "reality" shows, pictures, videos and so on) with what theory has to say, then we will notice that we received
- many messages
- inconsistent messages
- contradicting messages
- messages setting off more messages
- messages sent by all kinds of messengers
- us filtering and picking several messages / messengers by choice
- message initiators and senders knowing about all the above.
The essential part is understanding HOW and WHY we are being addressed by WHOM as "information" receivers. This will answer many of our questions.
The more we are aware of our roles that we play in these interactions, the less manipulative power remains in the senders' hands.
The more we know ourselves, the more we know others.
That's the path to freedom. That's one of the most positive outcomes of this journey.
[Remark: How many times do we allow for emotional stress to be applied onto us from third parties that we solve by putting fingers on INNOCENT people just because they had been named in the stressing situation - isn't that how tabloids do work?
Calling for
"Katherine went shopping instead of crying,
the kid's had a stun gun,
Murray did CPR on the bed,
Murray left MJ alone,
MJ was a druggie,
he/she is to doing something wrong in a "general common" context, he/she is to blame" -
and oupppsallla up we run high on adrenalin and call somebody we do not know at all names, put them into drawers, label them and return then (after completion of crucifixion and stoning) back into our home sweet home and everything's fine and in order again?
This emotional communication targetting does work so well that we do not need to feel remembered of Middle Ages' pillories. Pillories are more common today than ever. Bread and Circuses to keep the masses at bay. Circuses are now available everywhere in realtime.]
No, Ben is not a liar. He slipped even.
He's participating in the storybook.
No reason to put our head's into sad clouds either. Truth will prevail. It always has.
Blessings.
-
What if the ambulance photo is two photos merged together, one on top of the other or something. The staged ambulance photo with the MJ "dummy" that was taken the "other day" in the real ambulance, and then the "street reflection" photo taken (just the street itself - the car, leaves, etc), maybe on June 25th so it would match up. Then the two photos were merged (layered) so as to appear like it was taken on June 25th outside the Carolwood home.
I agree, it makes sense.
-
Law enforcement sources tell us when paramedics arrived at Michael Jackson's house he was already dead ... and it took them a while to even realize the victim was the famous singer.
...............
Paramedics didn't realize for nearly 10 minutes the victim was Michael Jackson. As one emergency worker put it: "It just looked like a frail, old, sickly man."
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2009/07/27/0625_michael_jackson_ex-1.jpg)
So I understand that after 10 minutes they finally realised it was MJ?
But the photo is VERY clear, it is Michael, recognizable from second 1, one doesn't need 10 minutes to see it's MJ.
-
FBI Multi-Agency Joint Terrorism Task Force offering reward in latest attack of UCLA Professor
The organizations reported contributing to the rewards is: University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA), the FBI, the ATF and the City of Los Angeles. The contributions represent the investigative partners in this case, including, the UCLA Police Department, the Los Angeles Police Department, the Los Angeles City Fire Department, the FBI and the ATF; these are all members of the Joint Terrorism Task Force in Los Angeles set up by the FBI. There are various incidents being investigated by the task force as acts of domestic terrorism.
http://www.examiner.com/la-in-los-angel ... -professor (http://www.examiner.com/la-in-los-angeles/fbi-multi-agency-joint-terrorism-task-force-offering-reward-latest-attack-of-ucla-professor)
There have been many instances that all forces join together.....there is quite alot of information if you google it..
-
Hi MJonmind! :D
I've posted the story about my dream on the "I can't stop dreamin' 'bout this" thread.
L.O.V.E
-
so does the simple idea of it being photo shopped make ben a liar? is that the end result? if so what does it really mean. does it mean it didn't happen or that there simply was not last picture? what?
Ben's not necessarily a liar.
He shot / prepared the thingie, just that he did not do it on the day WE assumed.
So we are mistaken by our very individual perception and very individual conclusion on what we perceived at first.
If we label Ben a liar, this expresses only our individual emotional disappointment (about ourselves first of all: we allowed deception to happen) and handling of that now stressing unbalanced ego situation - getting our individual stress calmed again by directing the frustration onto somebody else - who happens in this case to be the originator of our illusion.
In this emotional reaction to deception, calling somebody a liar is evaluation or plain judgement (basically shifting our own failure to somebody else).
Basic communication models may help in understanding this (see also communication "noises" who lay ground for misinterpretations and emotional reactions to communication):
Communication is the activity of conveying information. Communication requires a sender, a message, and an intended recipient, although the receiver need not be present or aware of the sender's intent to communicate at the time of communication; thus communication can occur across vast distances in time and space. Communication requires that the communicating parties share an area of communicative commonality. The communication process is complete once the receiver has understood the sender.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/Communication_emisor.jpg/270px-Communication_emisor.jpg)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Encoding_communication.jpg/270px-Encoding_communication.jpg)
Human communication
Human spoken and picture languages can be described as a system of symbols (sometimes known as lexemes) and the grammars (rules) by which the symbols are manipulated.The word "language" also refers to common properties of languages. Language learning normally occurs most intensively during human childhood. Most of the thousands of human languages use patterns of sound or gesture for symbols which enable communication with others around them. [...]
A variety of verbal and non-verbal means of communicating exists such as body language; eye contact, sign language, paralanguage, haptic communication, chronemics, and media such as pictures, graphics, sound, and writing.[...]
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/Communication_shannon-weaver2.svg/270px-Communication_shannon-weaver2.svg.png)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0d/Transactional_comm_model.jpg/270px-Transactional_comm_model.jpg)
Communication Noise
In any communication model, noise is interference with the decoding of messages sent over a channel by an encoder. There are many examples of noise:
Environmental Noise: Noise that physically disrupts communication, such as standing next to loud speakers at a party, or the noise from a construction site next to a classroom making it difficult to hear the professor.
Physiological-Impairment Noise: Physical maladies that prevent effective communication, such as actual deafness or blindness preventing messages from being received as they were intended.
Semantic Noise: Different interpretations of the meanings of certain words. For example, the word "weed" can be interpreted as an undesirable plant in your yard, or as a euphemism for marijuana.
Syntactical Noise: Mistakes in grammar can disrupt communication, such as abrupt changes in verb tense during a sentence.
Organizational Noise: Poorly structured communication can prevent the receiver from accurate interpretation. For example, unclear and badly stated directions can make the receiver even more lost.
Cultural Noise: Stereotypical assumptions can cause misunderstandings, such as unintentionally offending a non-Christian person by wishing them a "Merry Christmas".
Psychological Noise: Certain attitudes can also make communication difficult. For instance, great anger or sadness may cause someone to lose focus on the present moment. Disorders such as Autism may also severely hamper effective communication.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communication
If we take the above mentioned as examples of difficulties in communication, we may notice that already talking to somebody one on one bears the potential of not being understood as intended.
How much more will we run into difficulties of being understood when we are NOT talking one on one anymore but are using intermediary agents such as media (internet e.g.).
This makes also clear how well- and elementarily structured mass media have to be if somebody wants to use them for his purposes. Ever wondered how "shallow" mass media are? They have to be that way or they would have to deal with too many communication "noises" and would not get their intended "messages" across.
Barriers to successful communication include message overload (when a person receives too many messages at the same time), and message complexity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communication
Does this sound familiar?
Doesn't make one wonder why we don't get as far in our search as we would like to - it was predictable btw.
The more "pseudo"-information from multiple sources, the more confusion, the more distance to truth. The more "pseudo"-information items planted and leaked, the more time passing by, the more confusion, the more loss of memory and of "real" information, the more fog and the more hiding.
If we look at only the communication models' aspects and compare what we have witnessed (our "pseudo"-reality of planted and "leaked" information, utterances, interviews, "reality" shows, pictures, videos and so on) with what theory has to say, then we will notice that we received
- many messages
- inconsistent messages
- contradicting messages
- messages setting off more messages
- messages sent by all kinds of messengers
- us filtering and picking several messages / messengers by choice
- message initiators and senders knowing about all the above.
The essential part is understanding HOW and WHY we are being addressed by WHOM as "information" receivers. This will answer many of our questions.
The more we are aware of our roles that we play in these interactions, the less manipulative power remains in the senders' hands.
The more we know ourselves, the more we know others.
That's the path to freedom. That's one of the most positive outcomes of this journey.
[Remark: How many times do we allow for emotional stress to be applied onto us from third parties that we solve by putting fingers on INNOCENT people just because they had been named in the stressing situation - isn't that how tabloids do work?
Calling for
"Katherine went shopping instead of crying,
the kid's had a stun gun,
Murray did CPR on the bed,
Murray left MJ alone,
MJ was a druggie,
he/she is to doing something wrong in a "general common" context, he/she is to blame" -
and oupppsallla up we run high on adrenalin and call somebody we do not know at all names, put them into drawers, label them and return then (after completion of crucifixion and stoning) back into our home sweet home and everything's fine and in order again?
This emotional communication targetting does work so well that we do not need to feel remembered of Middle Ages' pillories. Pillories are more common today than ever. Bread and Circuses to keep the masses at bay. Circuses are now available everywhere in realtime.]
No, Ben is not a liar. He slipped even.
He's participating in the storybook.
No reason to put our head's into sad clouds either. Truth will prevail. It always has.
Blessings.
liar was a bad choice of words . as for the rest no comment. :|
-
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12439)
The white fireman/paramedic pouring the pancake batter is the same one in the Hollywood.tv video helping the ambulance back out of the driveway. He is also shown putting the orange cones on the ground. So clearly he is a REAL fireman/paramedic. Not FBI. 8-)
[youtube:28z6vh7f]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuXRaJFdmKU[/youtube:28z6vh7f]
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12438)
The guy circled in this picture is also seen in the Hollywood.tv video close to the end. He is walking towards and up into the driveway at the 1:45 mark when the white truck is driving by. He clearly is a REAL fireman/paramedic. I believe these two guys came to Michael's house in the fire truck and were not the ones that drove the ambulance to the hospital (pictured in the hospital entrance wheeling the gurney in). 8-)
(http://newsone.com/files/2011/01/ambulance-arrives-at-hospital-with-michael-jackson.jpg)
Obviously they can't guide the ambulance out the driveway, set orange cones on the ground and also be seen walking up the driveway after the ambulance has been shown driving backwards and away down the street at the same time these guys are doing their job. All of the above is my opinion of course but common sense and eyesight should be enough to realize the men I spoke about are in the pictures and video excluding the hospital entrance picture. ;)
Peace
Thank you for the input Im_convinced. Yes, that white haired man looks like the same guy who is pouring the pancake. So we know that they're real paramedics and not FBI. What about the ones inside the ambulance? We can not see their faces clearly though.
-
Paramedics: Jackson Dead When We Arrived
7/26/2009 9:30 PM PDT by TMZ Staff
Law enforcement sources tell us when paramedics arrived at Michael Jackson's house he was already dead ... and it took them a while to even realize the victim was the famous singer.
Our sources say when paramedics got to Jackson's home he was flatlined. There was no electrical activity in his heart and Jackson showed no sign of life.
Multiple sources say paramedics wanted to pronounce Jackson dead at the scene but Dr. Conrad Murray insisted that the singer be transported to the hospital. Dr. Murray -- as a higher medical authority than the EMTs -- had the power to overrule them.
Paramedics didn't realize for nearly 10 minutes the victim was Michael Jackson. As one emergency worker put it: "It just looked like a frail, old, sickly man."
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2009/07/27/0625_michael_jackson_ex-1.jpg)
Huh? What do you mean I looked like a frail old man? ;)
:lol:
So there're three options.
1-The paramedics are lying about the way he looked that day because Michael wanted them to do so for it to be a clue to us.
2-It was not Michael they brought to the hospital.
3-Michael disguised himself like an old man.
I do not think it would be necessary to use a disguise, so option 1 and 2 sound more possible to me.
-
Option 1.
Because Marlon told everyone in July 2009 that MJ liked to disguise himself as an old man when he went out.
Duh. We could have saved a whole lot of research if we hadn't over thought this whole thing for almost 2 years.
-
^^Just an example of how we could have figured this whole thing out in about 2 weeks.
Ps. Marlon also said, "Michael you're there. You're right there" and pointed towards Hatman and Adams Apple Blonde.
-
Hello everyone! I havent been posting much recently, but I have been reading and something caught my attention while watching the video of the ambulance backing out. We've all been focusing on the the ambulance and not very much attention has been given to the firetruck and I've noticed a discrepancy. Of course there is the picture of the 911 call screen that shows that the call originated from the Beverly Hills Hotel. [attachment=0:2vdfbcqr]911_call_screen.jpg[/attachment:2vdfbcqr] This was supposedly shot through the window of the firetruck. However, at the end of the ambulance video (sorry I'm not sure how to post it here), the window of the firetruck is rolled up and the call screen is not visible. I haven't quite figured out exactly how this fits in with everything because I'm still trying to get my thoughts together. Just thought I'd share.
Peace and LOVE :)
-
Jeffrey Mills was the third one and he is white.
Plus let's not forget about staff from the engine.
Hi Grace,
I am wondering why you think Jeffrey Mills was the third one? Is it because his picture/name/title is included in the photos with the paramedics who arrived at Michael's house? I realize he is a Captain but he is not the Captain I am referring to. Can you please provide evidence to show why you think it is Jeffrey being the third one. Also can you show proof of the staff in the fire engine and explain what you mean by your statement?
Here is who I am referring to as the one key person. Captain Steve Ruda.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2 ... -ruda.html (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/06/pop-star-michael-jackson-was-rushed-to-a-hospital-this-afternoon-by-los-angeles-fire-department-paramedics--capt-steve-ruda.html)
Michael Jackson is dead [Updated]
June 25, 2009 | 2:06 pm
Pop star Michael Jackson was pronounced dead today after paramedics found him in a coma at his Bel-Air mansion, city and law enforcement sources told The Times.
Los Angeles Fire Department Capt. Steve Ruda told The Times that paramedics responded to a 911 call from the home. When they arrived, Jackson was not breathing.
The paramedics performed CPR and took Jackson to UCLA Medical Center, Ruda said. Hundreds of reporters gathered at the hospital awaiting word on his condition. The sources, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said family members rushed to Jackson’s bedside, where he was in a deep coma.
The circumstances of Jackson’s death remain unclear. Law enforcement sources said that Los Angeles Police Department robbery-homicide detectives have opened an investigation into the death, though they stressed that there is no evidence of criminal wrongdoing.
The detectives plan to interview relatives, friends and Jackson’s doctors to try to figure out what happened. The L.A. County coroner’s office will determine a cause of death. A Los Angeles Fire Department source told The Times that Jackson was in full cardiac arrest when rescue units arrived.
A doctor was in the house performing CPR on Jackson, said the source who asked not to be identified because he was not authorized to speak to the media. Paramedics were called to a home in the 100 block of Carolwood Drive off Sunset Boulevard.
Jackson rented the Bel-Air home -- described as a French chateau built in 2002 with seven bedrooms, 13 bathrooms, 12 fireplaces and a theater -- for $100,000 a month.
The home is about a six-minute drive from UCLA Medical Center. Jackson has three children -- sons Prince Michael 7, and Michael Joseph Jackson Jr., 12, and daughter Paris Michael Katherine, 11.
Jackson, 50, died as he was attempting a comeback after years of tabloid headlines, most notably his trial and acquittal on child molestation charges.
In May, The Times reported that Jackson had rented the Bel-Air residence and was rehearsing for a series of 50 sold-out shows in London's O2 Arena. Jackson had won the backing of two billionaires to get the so-called "King of Pop" back on stage.
His backers envisioned the shows at AEG's O2 as an audition for a career rebirth that could have ultimately encompassed a three-year world tour, a new album, movies, a Graceland-like museum, musical revues in Las Vegas and Macau, and even a "Thriller" casino. Such a rebound could have wiped out Jackson's massive debt.
[Updated post]
-- Andrew Blankstein and Phil Willon
Im_convincedmjalive The white fireman/paramedic pouring the pancake batter is the same one in the Hollywood.tv video helping the ambulance back out of the driveway. He is also shown putting the orange cones on the ground. So clearly he is a REAL fireman/paramedic. Not FBI.
Why can he not be both FBI and paramedic. The FBI use 30,000 professionals in various fields to add their expertise and cover. It seems to me that the arm of the paramedic pushing the pancake batter device looks like the ambulance photo sitting guy. Almost seems the photo is a deliberate pose in the same arm/hand position and posted for hoax sleuthers.
Hi MJonmind,
Can you please provide proof that the real firemen/paramedics could be both.
Thank you.
-
Hello everyone! I havent been posting much recently, but I have been reading and something caught my attention while watching the video of the ambulance backing out. We've all been focusing on the the ambulance and not very much attention has been given to the firetruck and I've noticed a discrepancy. Of course there is the picture of the 911 call screen that shows that the call originated from the Beverly Hills Hotel. [attachment=0:2yqvtcnt]911_call_screen.jpg[/attachment:2yqvtcnt] This was supposedly shot through the window of the firetruck. However, at the end of the ambulance video (sorry I'm not sure how to post it here), the window of the firetruck is rolled up and the call screen is not visible. I haven't quite figured out exactly how this fits in with everything because I'm still trying to get my thoughts together. Just thought I'd share.
Peace and LOVE :)
This was supposedly shot through the window of the firetruck
Hi :) Is this 911 call screen picture actually shot through a window? I wonder.
On the picture of this link http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sh ... 501914.ece (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/bizarre/article2501914.ece) (sorry I can't post it because of copy rights) it looks like it has been shot inside the truck. It is also possible that the screen picture has been shot afterwards, I mean after MJ arrived in the hospital, because all data are stored in the computer.
-
Hello everyone! I havent been posting much recently, but I have been reading and something caught my attention while watching the video of the ambulance backing out. We've all been focusing on the the ambulance and not very much attention has been given to the firetruck and I've noticed a discrepancy. Of course there is the picture of the 911 call screen that shows that the call originated from the Beverly Hills Hotel. [attachment=0:2mvl0mdf]911_call_screen.jpg[/attachment:2mvl0mdf] This was supposedly shot through the window of the firetruck. However, at the end of the ambulance video (sorry I'm not sure how to post it here), the window of the firetruck is rolled up and the call screen is not visible. I haven't quite figured out exactly how this fits in with everything because I'm still trying to get my thoughts together. Just thought I'd share.
Peace and LOVE :)
This was supposedly shot through the window of the firetruck
Hi :) Is this 911 call screen picture actually shot through a window? I wonder.
On the picture of this link http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sh ... 501914.ece (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/bizarre/article2501914.ece) (sorry I can't post it because of copy rights) it looks like it has been shot inside the truck. It is also possible that the screen picture has been shot afterwards, I mean after MJ arrived in the hospital, because all data are stored in the computer.
I was under the impression that it was shot through the window (I can't remember why), but after seeing this picture it does appear that it was taken inside the truck. Does that mean that one of the paramedics that arrived in the fire truck took the picture and leaked it to the media? I'm sure the paparazzi or fans wouldn't have access to the inside of the fire truck. Unless of course it was left unlocked and someone took a little peak inside, but lets hope that nobody is that bold. :lol:
-
[youtube:3gbthnau]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuXRaJFdmKU[/youtube:3gbthnau]
In this video Ben is the guy with the tan shirt holding the video camera.
Hello everyone! I havent been posting much recently, but I have been reading and something caught my attention while watching the video of the ambulance backing out. We've all been focusing on the the ambulance and not very much attention has been given to the firetruck and I've noticed a discrepancy. Of course there is the picture of the 911 call screen that shows that the call originated from the Beverly Hills Hotel. [attachment=0:3gbthnau]911_call_screen.jpg[/attachment:3gbthnau] This was supposedly shot through the window of the firetruck. However, at the end of the ambulance video (sorry I'm not sure how to post it here), the window of the firetruck is rolled up and the call screen is not visible. I haven't quite figured out exactly how this fits in with everything because I'm still trying to get my thoughts together. Just thought I'd share.
Peace and LOVE :)
[youtube:3gbthnau]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wCdllj2eDI&feature=related[/youtube:3gbthnau]
This is Ben explaining the fire truck's call screen.
-
[youtube:2w6xlzav]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuXRaJFdmKU[/youtube:2w6xlzav]
In this video Ben is the guy with the tan shirt holding the video camera.
Hello everyone! I havent been posting much recently, but I have been reading and something caught my attention while watching the video of the ambulance backing out. We've all been focusing on the the ambulance and not very much attention has been given to the firetruck and I've noticed a discrepancy. Of course there is the picture of the 911 call screen that shows that the call originated from the Beverly Hills Hotel. [attachment=0:2w6xlzav]911_call_screen.jpg[/attachment:2w6xlzav] This was supposedly shot through the window of the firetruck. However, at the end of the ambulance video (sorry I'm not sure how to post it here), the window of the firetruck is rolled up and the call screen is not visible. I haven't quite figured out exactly how this fits in with everything because I'm still trying to get my thoughts together. Just thought I'd share.
Peace and LOVE :)
[youtube:2w6xlzav]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wCdllj2eDI&feature=related[/youtube:2w6xlzav]
This is Ben the guy who shot the video of the fire truck's screen.
Thanks! I knew there was some footage of the screen being shot through the window. That also brings me back to the point of how he got that footage when the window was rolled up at the end of the ambulance video. Either the footage was shot on different days or someone was playing with the window rolling it up or down when there was an "emergency" going on.
-
Jeffrey Mills was the third one and he is white.
Plus let's not forget about staff from the engine.
Hi Grace,
I am wondering why you think Jeffrey Mills was the third one? Is it because his picture/name/title is included in the photos with the paramedics who arrived at Michael's house? I realize he is a Captain but he is not the Captain I am referring to. Can you please provide evidence to show why you think it is Jeffrey being the third one. Also can you show proof of the staff in the fire engine and explain what you mean by your statement?
Here is who I am referring to as the one key person. Captain Steve Ruda.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2 ... -ruda.html (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/06/pop-star-michael-jackson-was-rushed-to-a-hospital-this-afternoon-by-los-angeles-fire-department-paramedics--capt-steve-ruda.html)
Michael Jackson is dead [Updated]
June 25, 2009 | 2:06 pm
Pop star Michael Jackson was pronounced dead today after paramedics found him in a coma at his Bel-Air mansion, city and law enforcement sources told The Times.
Los Angeles Fire Department Capt. Steve Ruda told The Times that paramedics responded to a 911 call from the home. When they arrived, Jackson was not breathing.
The paramedics performed CPR and took Jackson to UCLA Medical Center, Ruda said. Hundreds of reporters gathered at the hospital awaiting word on his condition. The sources, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said family members rushed to Jackson’s bedside, where he was in a deep coma.
The circumstances of Jackson’s death remain unclear. Law enforcement sources said that Los Angeles Police Department robbery-homicide detectives have opened an investigation into the death, though they stressed that there is no evidence of criminal wrongdoing.
The detectives plan to interview relatives, friends and Jackson’s doctors to try to figure out what happened. The L.A. County coroner’s office will determine a cause of death. A Los Angeles Fire Department source told The Times that Jackson was in full cardiac arrest when rescue units arrived.
A doctor was in the house performing CPR on Jackson, said the source who asked not to be identified because he was not authorized to speak to the media. Paramedics were called to a home in the 100 block of Carolwood Drive off Sunset Boulevard.
Jackson rented the Bel-Air home -- described as a French chateau built in 2002 with seven bedrooms, 13 bathrooms, 12 fireplaces and a theater -- for $100,000 a month.
The home is about a six-minute drive from UCLA Medical Center. Jackson has three children -- sons Prince Michael 7, and Michael Joseph Jackson Jr., 12, and daughter Paris Michael Katherine, 11.
Jackson, 50, died as he was attempting a comeback after years of tabloid headlines, most notably his trial and acquittal on child molestation charges.
In May, The Times reported that Jackson had rented the Bel-Air residence and was rehearsing for a series of 50 sold-out shows in London's O2 Arena. Jackson had won the backing of two billionaires to get the so-called "King of Pop" back on stage.
His backers envisioned the shows at AEG's O2 as an audition for a career rebirth that could have ultimately encompassed a three-year world tour, a new album, movies, a Graceland-like museum, musical revues in Las Vegas and Macau, and even a "Thriller" casino. Such a rebound could have wiped out Jackson's massive debt.
[Updated post]
-- Andrew Blankstein and Phil Willon
Im_convincedmjalive The white fireman/paramedic pouring the pancake batter is the same one in the Hollywood.tv video helping the ambulance back out of the driveway. He is also shown putting the orange cones on the ground. So clearly he is a REAL fireman/paramedic. Not FBI.
Why can he not be both FBI and paramedic. The FBI use 30,000 professionals in various fields to add their expertise and cover. It seems to me that the arm of the paramedic pushing the pancake batter device looks like the ambulance photo sitting guy. Almost seems the photo is a deliberate pose in the same arm/hand position and posted for hoax sleuthers.
Hi MJonmind,
Can you please provide proof that the real firemen/paramedics could be both.
Thank you.
Not sure if this is any help but concerning Steve Ruda... I think he is just a media relations/spokesperson and is not actually at station 71. I read somewhere that he was head of the Public Information Unit. I think the Captains of station 71 are/were Michael Coleman (A platoon), Antonio Gonzales (B platoon), and Jeffrey Mills (C platoon).
On another note, I at one time thought the ambulance picture was taken outside station 71 and that maybe those leaves were from that wall but it appears that they didn't get their wall and fancy electric gate until after June 25, 2009...like right after. Not sure why but I found that interesting. Wonder did MJ pay for that gate. lol Here is where I got that information:
http://ens.lacity.org/lafd/lafdreportar ... 012009.pdf (http://ens.lacity.org/lafd/lafdreportarchv/lafdlafdreport186462108_09012009.pdf)
-
I’ve been thinking about the FBI’s involvement, the possible clues they’ve given and numerology.
As we all know, the FBI intended to release 333 pages on Michael Jackson on 12/21 but was delayed a day.
Here is the link I found when googling “Michael Jackson 333 pages”:
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2009/de ... son_122209 (http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2009/december/jackson_122209)
Here is the image with that article:
(http://www2.fbi.gov/headlines/mj260.jpg)
See how it clearly says “Michael Joe Jackson”. When you look at the actual 333 pages that were released, the always refer to him as “Michael Joe Jackson” or just “Michael Jackson”.
From the above link, there’s another link at the bottom of that page:
http://www.fbi.gov/foia/electronic-read ... ph-jackson (http://www.fbi.gov/foia/electronic-reading-room/michael-joseph-jackson)
Michael Joseph Jackson
Michael Joseph Jackson, a celebrity pop star, was born on August 29, 1958. He died unexpectedly on June 25, 2009 at the age of 50.
Between 1993 and 1994 and separately between 2004 and 2005, Mr. Jackson was investigated by California law enforcement agencies for possible child molestation. He was acquitted of all such charges. The FBI provided technical and investigative assistance to these agencies during the cases. The Bureau also investigated threats made against Mr. Jackson and others by an individual who was later imprisoned for these crimes.
So when the FBI is referring to Michael being dead, they call him “Michael Joseph Jackson”. Very interesting, wouldn’t you say? A deliberate clue like the DC and a subtle reference to an Elvis parallel with the middle name? The Elvis/FBI involvement has been discussed in this thread and many know that his full name is Elvis Aron Presley but on the grave stone it says “Elvis Aaron Presley”.
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR9WjB-Y99BuofwJItffKwOmhjcT0udv7VSdmq44ata8I4PoVJxpg)
Now let’s have some fun with math and numbers (words I never thought I would ever say :lol: ).
There were 333 pages intended to be released on 12/21. 1221 being the time of the 911 call and a reference to the EOW date.
The release of these 333 pages were from 7 separate files.
In the first file, 111 pages were withheld. TS told us the importance of 111, being the fundamental number in the hoax. The This Is It movie is 111 minutes. Weird, right?
There’s a total of 675 FBI pages on Michael Jackson – 333 released and 342 withheld.
3+3+3=9
3+4+2=9
6+7+5=18 1+8=9
I was playing around and found this as well:
333 X 7= 2331 (2+3+3+1=9)
333 + 1998 (Dangerous autograph) = 2331
2331 / 111 = 21 (7,7,7)
And 2331-1221= 1110 then - 333= 777
Here’s the FBI’s recap of the 7 files:
This release consists of seven separate files, as described below:
9A-LA-142276: 1992 to 1993, 196 pages
This file details a Los Angeles field office investigation into extortion threats against Michael Jackson and others in 1992. The subject of this investigation pled guilty and was sentenced to prison in 1993.
A total of 111 pages were withheld to prevent duplication of material already released or to protect personal privacy, the identity of sources that provided information to the FBI in confidence, and internal rules and practices. Some information was referred to the U.S. Secret Service.
62D-LA-162715: September 16, 1993 to August 8, 1994, 56 pages
This file involves a Los Angeles field office investigation opened to assist local authorities with a child molestation case in 1993. The case never went to trial.
Ninety-five pages were withheld to prevent duplication of material already released or to protect personal privacy, the identity of sources that provided information to the FBI in confidence, and internal rules and practices.
62D-L0-11779: September 2, 1993 to October 22, 1993, 9 pages
This file was opened by the FBI’s legal attaché office in London when it assisted local authorities with a child molestation investigation in 1993.
Thirteen pages were withheld to protect personal privacy and the identity of sources that provided information to the FBI in confidence.
95A-HQ-1148159: October 30, 1995 to January 24, 1997, 8 pages
This file details a request made to the FBI to analyze a VHS videotape provided by the U.S. Customs Service as part of a child pornography investigation.
Some information was redacted to protect personal privacy. Four pages were referred to U.S. Customs and Immigration Enforcement for a release determination.
62D-LA-236081: January 15, 2004 to April 27, 2004, 41 pages
Our Los Angeles field office opened this file when it was asked by local authorities to provide forensic computer analysis assistance in a child molestation investigation in 2004. The examination of evidence in this case was conducted by the FBI’s Computer Analysis and Response Team (CART). Mr. Jackson was ultimately acquitted of these charges in a California court.
One hundred and twenty-three pages were withheld to protect personal privacy, the identity of sources that provided information to the FBI in confidence, and internal rules and practices or to prevent the disclosure of techniques and procedures for law enforcement investigations or prosecutions.
305B-LA-239204: September 14, 2004 to December 9, 2004, 5 pages
This Los Angeles field office file was opened in 2004 to investigate child molestation allegations. Due to lack of witness cooperation, the case was closed.
252B-IR-6808: March 1, 2004 to June 29, 2005, 18 pages
This file involves a request made of the FBI's Critical Incident Response Group to provide advice and assistance to local authorities concerning a child molestation investigation in 2004.
Some information was redacted to protect personal privacy and internal rules and practices.
View each file from here: http://www.fbi.gov/foia/electronic-read ... ph-jackson (http://www.fbi.gov/foia/electronic-reading-room/michael-joseph-jackson)
So why would certain individuals in the FBI be involved with Michael? It "offically" started off because Michael’s life was threatened, then their involvement was with the molestation accusations. It’s entirely possible that the agents researching Michael uncovered a plot where someone(s) was out to destroy Michael. If these bad people couldn’t get close enough to kill him, they would extort him and attempt to destroy his career and reputation. Suddenly it doesn't seem so far-fetched that the FBI (not the whole Bureau but certain individuals) would help Michael with his long-planned hoax - because it helps keep Michael safe and they are able to flush out those people in Michael's life who were a danger to him. The numerology is important because it shows their involvement is deliberate and planned, as is everything else with the hoax.
-
Interesting post Andrea.
Now Michael used FBI or FBI used Michael?
Or Michael is dead and this hoax is just our daily morphine? To forget about the pain of losing him...
-
Excellent post Andrea...numbers & all. I hate math. :lol:
-
Now look at these findings.......this is from another ambulance..78
LOOK AT THE PATTERNS ON THE DECOR
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12428)
You have some very good evidence. If possible can you provide a link to where you found that picture of Ambulance #78. Your absolutely right in looking at the decor. I went back to the link for the pancake breakfast to look at some more pictures and I found a picture of Ambulance #71 with the doors open. You can see the same decor inside. Now I could say that the leaf/face pattern was created because of that decor and I could now say it was part of the interior of the ambulance but I still see an intentional face. Uggg. Optical Illusions. :shock:
You can't see the ambulance # on the right side because the picture shrinks on here but go to the link and you can see through the window the #11803.
http://www.bigwheelmagazine.com/around_ ... e-13-2010/ (http://www.bigwheelmagazine.com/around_town/pancake-breakfast-at-fire-station-71-of-the-los-angeles-fire-department-los-angeles-ca-june-13-2010/)
http://www.teamgoonphotos.com/Random-Ha ... qExf/Large (http://www.teamgoonphotos.com/Random-Happenings/Breakfast-at-Fire-Station-71/12547601_GDjsM/1/900256507_nqExf/Large)
(http://www.teamgoonphotos.com/Random-Happenings/Breakfast-at-Fire-Station-71/18P1040396/900256507_nqExf-O.jpg)
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053#p308499 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053#p308499)
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/PatternClose-up.jpg)
TS_comments wrote:
This zoomed area is a leaf-like pattern (whether or not you see a face hidden in the pattern). So the big question for now is whether the pattern ...
#1 ... is part of the secondary image (with the red car, etc)?
#2 ... is part of the ambulance interior design?
#3 ... is edited into the picture (Photoshop), not part of the ambulance or secondary image?
To help you figure out the answer: I have included below four different ambulance photos, a video of the wall area behind the red car, and a video of the inside of ambulance 71 (11803, CA 1261551).
Inside ambulance 71 (starting at 9:00):
[youtube:3k1szb8c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMB5gfcVChg[/youtube:3k1szb8c]
-
It is interesting to read this post Andrea, especially in these days that I have so much fatigue and mental laziness. :lol:
-
yeah and the registration number of the ambulance 71 is 1261551 = 21 = 777 and that means Michael faked his death...ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh....this is all so frustrating
-
Interesting post Andrea.
Now Michael used FBI or FBI used Michael?
Or Michael is dead and this hoax is just our daily morphine? To forget about the pain of losing him...
I think there was an agreement, Gina! The FBI would protect Michael and Michael would give important information to the FBI about this mob. I noticed that in the interview of Mrs. Katherine and Lisa to Oprah, they knew who were people dangerous to Michael. If they knew, it's because Michael told them! I think that he knew everything!
The theory of the FBI encourages me, but everything else does not convince me too! I just wanted an answer to all this!
I just expect the trial, I hope it is not postponed to next year! ;)
-
mdc wrote:
Not sure if this is any help but concerning Steve Ruda... I think he is just a media relations/spokesperson and is not actually at station 71. I read somewhere that he was head of the Public Information Unit. I think the Captains of station 71 are/were Michael Coleman (A platoon), Antonio Gonzales (B platoon), and Jeffrey Mills (C platoon).
I have only said he is a key person in this "hoax" who helped to kick start it. From day 1 he was the man saying things. I do not know if he currently works at fire station #71 but that isn't even important to me. Fire Captain Steve Ruda is the link between LAFD and Michael. Thanks for the help. ;)
Of course this is all my opinion. See evidence below. He was active fighting fires as he was honored in 2006 and there is his picture in uniform. He is real to me. 8-)
Peace
http://twitter.com/#!/cnnbrk/status/2332759743 (http://twitter.com/#!/cnnbrk/status/2332759743)
@cnnbrk CNN Breaking News
Fire Capt. Steve Ruda told CNN a 911 call came in from a west Los Angeles residence at 12:21 p.m.
25 Jun 09 via web
http://lafd.blogspot.com/2006/03/right- ... -ruda.html (http://lafd.blogspot.com/2006/03/right-stuff-lafds-captain-steve-ruda.html)
Thursday, March 02, 2006
The Right Stuff: LAFD's Captain Steve Ruda
The Los Angeles Firefighters Association invites you to join the men and women of LAFD, as well as community and civic leaders from across the nation in recognizing the Los Angeles Fire Department's "Firefighter of the Year" for 2005.
This year's honoree is not only widely known for his countless contributions to the Fire Service and community, but also for an inspiring message he wrote on a quilted wall hanging sent as a tribute to the passengers and crew of September 11's Flight 93.
His heartfelt opening words soon became the Mission Statement of the Flight 93 National Memorial:
"A common field one day. A field of honor forever. May all who visit this place remember the collective acts of courage and sacrifice of the passengers and crew, revere this hallowed ground as the final resting place of those heroes, and reflect on the power of individuals who choose to make a difference."
Captain Stephen Ruda
Los Angeles Fire Department
(http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5725/401/320/sjr1044.jpg)
A man of both faith and courage who has served his country with distinction as a United States Marine, and since excelled as a leader in our agency, Captain Stephen J. Ruda will be honored by his peers as LAFD's "Firefighter of the Year" at a noon luncheon:
Thursday, March 9, 2006
Omni Los Angeles Hotel
251 South Olive Street
Los Angeles, CA 90012 USA
Members of the public are warmly welcomed to join community leaders in attending this inspiring event. A limited number of tickets remain available for $38.00 per person. Tables of ten can still be purchased for $360.00
Tickets however, will not be sold at the door. You must RSVP. For additional information and reservations, please call: 213-386-3316.
We are pleased to offer an interactive map and driving directions to the Omni Hotel, and look forward to being with you next Thursday as we gather to honor Captain Steve Ruda - LAFD's Firefighter of the Year.
Submitted by Brian Humphrey, Spokesman
Los Angeles Fire Department
There is a link to the public relations for LAFD. http://lafd.org/public-relations (http://lafd.org/public-relations)
TS even wrote about Captain Steve and provided a video.
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=314370#p314370 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=314370#p314370)
Fifth, there is more than one way to skin a cat. So let's look at it from the other side of the coin. If the FBI did not help out, then how could the Bel Air station not know something is fishy? Would they sit by quietly, and say nothing, while MJ hired actors and rented an ambulance to look just like the LAFD #71 ambulance? And why would the LAFD Captain say http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggewNtwvHJ4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggewNtwvHJ4) "On June 25, 2009, LAFD responded ... our paramedic ..."--if indeed the LAFD did NOT respond, and it was merely actors in a rented ambulance?
-
Now when I reached the point of not trusting my own shadow I start to create the most weird scenarios in my head....the latest says that Michael fooled FBI into helping him.
-
Andrea, your post about numerology and the FBI files scares the living daylights out of me...
...and I have no idea why.
:idea: :arrow: :?
does anyone else feel their grip on reality slipping? :|
-
Im_convincedmjalive, Jeff Mills' wife said that he had a VIP emergency that day about which he could not speak, and that there was a "photo" that caused rumours whether the EMTs had shot it or not. I refer to a statement of a family member. It was posted and is available here. I am not inventing pink bubbles. This is other folks' occupation, not mine.
Blessings. ;)
-
Im_convincedmjalive, Jeff Mills' wife said that he had a VIP emergency that day about which he could not speak, and that there was a "photo" that caused rumours whether the EMTs had shot it or not. I refer to a statement of a family member. It was posted and is available here. I am not inventing pink bubbles. This is other folks' occupation, not mine.
Blessings. ;)
Aha...I am wondering though about the evidence. Do you have a link I could look at please? I like pink bubbles sometimes but no worries I wasn't assuming you were. I just like to see the evidence for myself so I can decide what to think about it.
Blessings to you to.
Peace
-
Andrea- outstanding post! Unless it's all coincidence- JUST kidding!
The Joe mention pertaining to Michael bs the Joseph talking about dead Michael contained in the FBI files is a great find.
I totally agree with your reasoning as well as with the statement from AnaMarcia- that's what I believe as well. It wasn't about who used whom- it was a mutual beneficial agreement- believe it or not, that's how our government agencies related to Intelligence work. And let's not forget that Michael is a very high profile person, so while they might not enter into such deals with just anyone- this was different.
-
Loved the numbers too Andrea!
The question for me also is who is using whom for what purposes. So much missing trustworthy information.
This article makes me wonder if the FBI are into making money on the side as well.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldne ... reats.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1237342/FBI-release-Michael-Jackson-files-child-abuse-inquiries-death-threats.html) Jackson – named by MTV today as the channel’s 2009 News Man of the Year - was not the only pop star to have his own FBI file.
The agency gathered more than 300 pages of information about John Lennon between 1971 and 1972, which later became material for a film and a book called ‘Gimme Some Truth: The John Lennon FBI Files.’
The FBI also compiled 650 pages on Elvis Presley, 89 on Doors singer Jim Morrison, 24 on the Motown Records label and four pages on Grateful Dead star Jerry Garcia.
-
Andrea, your post about numerology and the FBI files scares the living daylights out of me...
...and I have no idea why.
:idea: :arrow: :?
does anyone else feel their grip on reality slipping? :|
I feel the same way when i first read TIAI update on numerology :?
When i was very confused with Michael's middle name, the FBI files made me sure that his name is Michael JOE Jackson. I remember that they used a couple of times this phrase "TRUE name is Michael Joe Jackson" :)
-
http://lafd.org/batt9.htm (http://lafd.org/batt9.htm)
Los Angeles Fire Department
Battalion 9
Community Command of Bel Air, Brentwood, Westwood, UCLA Campus,
Pacific Palisades, northern West LA and the north Pacific Coast
In daily command of the LAFD's "Battalion 9" is one Battalion Chief overseeing all personnel assigned to six Neighborhood Fire Stations in a 44 square mile district:
Fire Station 19 - Brentwood, Getty Center, south Sepulveda Pass
Fire Station 23 - Pacific Heights, Palisades Highlands, Pacific Coast
Fire Station 37 - Westwood, UCLA Campus west
Fire Station 59 - Sawtelle, West Los Angeles
Fire Station 69 - Pacific Palisades, Pacific Coast
Fire Station 71 - Bel Air, Beverly Glen, Holmby Hills, UCLA Campus east
There are three Battalion Chiefs assigned to Battalion 9. They work on the same rotating Platoon Duty schedule as the Neighborhood Firefighters they command. These Battalion Chiefs answer directly to an Assistant Chief of the Department.[/b]
http://lafd.org/div1.htm (http://lafd.org/div1.htm)
The Los Angeles Fire Department is a highly regimented agency that incorporates both paramilitary structure and command principles. Groups of Neighborhood Fire Stations are clustered into Battalions, which are further organized into geographic groups, known as Divisions.
In daily command of the LAFD's "Division 1" is an Assistant Chief overseeing and coordinating all Fire Department field operations in a 121 square-mile district that encompasses Downtown and the Civic Center, Northeast Los Angeles, Hollywood, Los Feliz and Griffith Park as well as Echo Park, the Miracle Mile, Westwood and Pacific Palisades. Accountable to this Assistant Chief are six Battalion Chiefs and all subordinate personnel on duty at thirty-three Neighborhood Fire Stations within these six Battalions:
Battalion 1 - Downtown and the Civic Center
Battalion 2 - Northeast LA, Dodger Stadium and the LA Zoo
Battalion 5 - Hollywood, Los Feliz and Griffith Park
Battalion 7 - East LA, Lincoln Heights and El Sereno
Battalion 9 - Westwood, West LA and Pacific Palisades
Battalion 11 - Central Los Angeles, Echo Park and the Miracle Mile
The three Assistant Chiefs assigned to Division 1 work on the same Platoon Duty schedule as the Battalion Chiefs and Neighborhood Firefighters they command. These Assistant Chiefs answer directly to a Deputy Chief of the Department.
http://lafd.org/shift.htm (http://lafd.org/shift.htm)
Los Angeles Fire Department
Platoon Duty Shift Calendar
Members of the Los Angeles Fire Department working at Neighborhood Fire Stations are assigned to one of three rotating 24-hour long shifts (or "Platoons"). You can identify which Platoon (A, B, or C) is on duty by viewing the color-coded calendar below.
LAFD Firefighters work as a team with members the same Platoon at the same Neighborhood Fire Station for an entire 24-hour period. They are relieved as a group at 6:30 AM each day by the next scheduled Platoon.
Simply remember this: Firefighters working on any red, blue, or green day can be expected to be on duty on similarly colored days in the future. You may find this helpful when scheduling a Fire Station visit or following up on a reported fire hazard.
'C' Platoon Firefighters
are currently on duty
at your Neighborhood Fire Station
Monday, March 28, 2011 4:03:57 PM
Red = A Platoon Blue = B Platoon Green = C Platoon
According to these pages there is 1 Battalion Chief who oversees everyone on duty who works for all 6 of the stations in the Neighborhood Fire Stations. That is only for the day the Battalion Chief is on duty. There are 3 Battalion Chiefs who are assigned to Battalion 9. They rotate. Red shift, Blue shift, and Green shift. Whoever was on duty on 6/25/2009 as the Battalion Chief is who would be in charge of the paramedics who showed up at Michael's house that day. This was almost 2 years ago and I am sure some things have changed in Fire house 71 since then. ;)
Like for example the picture below shows that Blount is on the Red shift and Senneff is on the Green shift. It also shows that Jeff is the Captian for the green shift but he is NOT the highest person in charge, he answers to the Assistant Chief who then has to answer to a Deputy Chief and that link is dead. 8-)
Even higher up we go to the top nobody knows...lol
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12440)
That picture of the paramedics shows that Blount, Jeff and Senneff are not working together. At least not that day the picture was taken according to the shift guide. I do not know if this picture is pre 6/25/2009 or after.
I think I know what Grace was getting at when she mentioned Jeff. I think she was saying that Jeff could have been the other white guy in the fake ambulance picture.
Right or wrong Grace? :?:
I have a theory of why Jeff isn't the one in the fake ambulance picture.
viewtopic.php?f=253&t=14043 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=253&t=14043)
I found the thread that talks about his wife getting a text from him and then she went on and blabbed on her blog. Not one time but two times. Now both of her comments are removed from her blog. First of all Jeff was wrong to text his wife and give her to much info. Next because he blabbed to her it makes me think he wasn't aware of the hoax because he would of kept his trap shut. Then after his wife posted on her blog about it someone who knows about the hoax from LAFD made sure those blog posts were gone because it was to soon for anyone to spill beans. I believe Jeff's text to his wife was a honest mistake on his part because he wasn't aware of the hoax. 8-)
I do realize Jeff was there that day because of that slip on his part but there has been no other mention of him anywhere in the media that I could find. The only 2 paramedics that are mentioned are the ones who testified. Why? Because they were the ones in the back working on MJ and Jeff drove the ambulance. If Jeff had been in the back he would be the one on the witness stand. Since he is not I am still going with 1 Black guy 1 White guy. I know there could be an arguement and someone could say well on the other day Senneff and Jeff could of been the guys participating in the staged fake ambulance picture but because of Jeff's wife erasing her blog posts and him not being the one to testify; he looks very unknowing of the hoax. In fact I keep saying all the firemen/paramedics who showed up that day 6/25/2009 were not aware of the hoax. :ugeek:
Peace
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=317143#p317143 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=317143#p317143)
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=317161#p317161 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=317161#p317161)
-
Andrea- outstanding post! Unless it's all coincidence- JUST kidding!
The Joe mention pertaining to Michael bs the Joseph talking about dead Michael contained in the FBI files is a great find.
I totally agree with your reasoning as well as with the statement from AnaMarcia- that's what I believe as well. It wasn't about who used whom- it was a mutual beneficial agreement- believe it or not, that's how our government agencies related to Intelligence work. And let's not forget that Michael is a very high profile person, so while they might not enter into such deals with just anyone- this was different.
Thanks ignisaeternus and everyone for your feedback!
I agree that a mutually beneficial relationship between Michael and the FBI makes more sense to me than anything else. I admit that I have a natural mistrust of government agencies that keep information from the public but this is not the WHOLE organization.
The FBI’s use of numerology does not have to be sinister in any way and if MJ and the FBI are working together, it makes even more sense for them to do so if both have a strong association with numbers.
An intriguing show with the FBI is The X Files, a show that follows two FBI agents – Mulder and Scully – who investigate unsolved cases that often involve paranormal activities and/or conspiracies and government cover ups. Many of the episodes are quite thought-provoking and not that far-fetched at all. Truth is stranger than fiction, right? And “The Truth is Out There” and “I Want to Believe” are slogans of the show, along with “Trust No One”. I realize it’s just a show but it demonstrates that individuals in the FBI can be committed to finding the truth and uncovering secrets from their own government. Perhaps an FBI agent was even providing material or guidance for the show - I mean, cop shows will usually have a real cop on set to make the scenarios seem genuine. And even if an FBI agent provided some material for any episodes, no one would take it totally serious because it's just a show, right?
The series started shortly after the FBI’s involvement with Michael officially began. What’s very interesting about the show is that Mulder is a believer that Elvis is still alive and made several references to it throughout the series. I only found one clip on youtube but there are more in other episodes:
[youtube:27thkkpy]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SAwcNGwJNg[/youtube:27thkkpy]
Someone put together Thriller with an X Files montage which is pretty awesome – I’m just adding this for fun but you have to admit that there are certain elements of the X Files that are very Thriller-ish.
[youtube:27thkkpy]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UEL5cSN3Us&feature=fvwrel[/youtube:27thkkpy]
So I'm not saying Michael has anything to do with the X Files, I just find it all very interesting that so many connections can be made...
-
The series started shortly after the FBI’s involvement with Michael officially began. What’s very interesting about the show is that Mulder is a believer that Elvis is still alive and made several references to it throughout the series. I only found one clip on youtube but there are more in other episodes:
[youtube:1zj8rgj5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SAwcNGwJNg[/youtube:1zj8rgj5]
I don't even know what to say.....except that i am so close to the point where twilight zone begins....
anyway, I had to laugh hysterically about that video
-
The pictures of the paramedics, was taken on June 13th 2010...when they had an open day, Pancake breakfast..there are many more pictures in this link........
http://www.bigwheelmagazine.com/around_ ... e-13-2010/ (http://www.bigwheelmagazine.com/around_town/pancake-breakfast-at-fire-station-71-of-the-los-angeles-fire-department-los-angeles-ca-june-13-2010/)
-
Sorry I haven't had time to read all of the last pages so I don't know if this was answered before but who took the photo in the ambulance of the 911 call screen and was that on the same day?
And 12:22 on the screen equals 7 which probably someone already mentioned.
-
Guys, I have a couple of questions. In taking a look at the picture of the different shifts and the staff on duty. Question # 1 -Is there any particular reason for the Shift B ( Blue) to not have a Captain listed? While the other shifts do. Question # 2- for the Shift (B) why is there only a few people on that shift,and is that not the sam Firefighter in the video of the inside of the Amb., I believe the guy name is Joseph Franklin. Queston # 3- Who is this Stanley Smith with the number 71 and there is no picture of this Stanley Smith.
-
Guys, I have a couple of questions. In taking a look at the picture of the different shifts and the staff on duty. Question # 1 -Is there any particular reason for the Shift B ( Blue) to not have a Captain listed? While the other shifts do. Question # 2- for the Shift (B) why is there only a few people on that shift,and is that not the sam Firefighter in the video of the inside of the Amb., I believe the guy name is Joseph Franklin. Queston # 3- Who is this Stanley Smith with the number 71 and there is no picture of this Stanley Smith.
If their rescue squad is anything like it is here in VA then there are going to be shifts where they don't have the same amount of members on one shift all the time. It's the same with the fire department here. It all depends on what rank they are and what they are trained to do. On my husbands duty crew (fire department) they have a total of 12 members but on a different crew they have up to 15. Hope this helps a little.
-
I only read the last page of this thread, what is the conclusion? :oops: any good soul wants to make a lil resume? :D Pleeeaseeeee :D
-
I am a soul very good :mrgreen: (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_n34H0NXT1us/SpCE1Q4kSMI/AAAAAAAADCw/5u6Zosicnd0/s400/a2.bmp)
But still there is no a conclusion :roll:
-
@Gemma. This post from our Andrea is outstanding.
I’ve been thinking about the FBI’s involvement, the possible clues they’ve given and numerology.
As we all know, the FBI intended to release 333 pages on Michael Jackson on 12/21 but was delayed a day.
Here is the link I found when googling “Michael Jackson 333 pages”:
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2009/de ... son_122209 (http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2009/december/jackson_122209)
Here is the image with that article:
(http://www2.fbi.gov/headlines/mj260.jpg)
See how it clearly says “Michael Joe Jackson”. When you look at the actual 333 pages that were released, the always refer to him as “Michael Joe Jackson” or just “Michael Jackson”.
From the above link, there’s another link at the bottom of that page:
http://www.fbi.gov/foia/electronic-read ... ph-jackson (http://www.fbi.gov/foia/electronic-reading-room/michael-joseph-jackson)
Michael Joseph Jackson
Michael Joseph Jackson, a celebrity pop star, was born on August 29, 1958. He died unexpectedly on June 25, 2009 at the age of 50.
Between 1993 and 1994 and separately between 2004 and 2005, Mr. Jackson was investigated by California law enforcement agencies for possible child molestation. He was acquitted of all such charges. The FBI provided technical and investigative assistance to these agencies during the cases. The Bureau also investigated threats made against Mr. Jackson and others by an individual who was later imprisoned for these crimes.
So when the FBI is referring to Michael being dead, they call him “Michael Joseph Jackson”. Very interesting, wouldn’t you say? A deliberate clue like the DC and a subtle reference to an Elvis parallel with the middle name? The Elvis/FBI involvement has been discussed in this thread and many know that his full name is Elvis Aron Presley but on the grave stone it says “Elvis Aaron Presley”.
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR9WjB-Y99BuofwJItffKwOmhjcT0udv7VSdmq44ata8I4PoVJxpg)
Now let’s have some fun with math and numbers (words I never thought I would ever say :lol: ).
There were 333 pages intended to be released on 12/21. 1221 being the time of the 911 call and a reference to the EOW date.
The release of these 333 pages were from 7 separate files.
In the first file, 111 pages were withheld. TS told us the importance of 111, being the fundamental number in the hoax. The This Is It movie is 111 minutes. Weird, right?
There’s a total of 675 FBI pages on Michael Jackson – 333 released and 342 withheld.
3+3+3=9
3+4+2=9
6+7+5=18 1+8=9
I was playing around and found this as well:
333 X 7= 2331 (2+3+3+1=9)
333 + 1998 (Dangerous autograph) = 2331
2331 / 111 = 21 (7,7,7)
And 2331-1221= 1110 then - 333= 777
Here’s the FBI’s recap of the 7 files:
This release consists of seven separate files, as described below:
9A-LA-142276: 1992 to 1993, 196 pages
This file details a Los Angeles field office investigation into extortion threats against Michael Jackson and others in 1992. The subject of this investigation pled guilty and was sentenced to prison in 1993.
A total of 111 pages were withheld to prevent duplication of material already released or to protect personal privacy, the identity of sources that provided information to the FBI in confidence, and internal rules and practices. Some information was referred to the U.S. Secret Service.
62D-LA-162715: September 16, 1993 to August 8, 1994, 56 pages
This file involves a Los Angeles field office investigation opened to assist local authorities with a child molestation case in 1993. The case never went to trial.
Ninety-five pages were withheld to prevent duplication of material already released or to protect personal privacy, the identity of sources that provided information to the FBI in confidence, and internal rules and practices.
62D-L0-11779: September 2, 1993 to October 22, 1993, 9 pages
This file was opened by the FBI’s legal attaché office in London when it assisted local authorities with a child molestation investigation in 1993.
Thirteen pages were withheld to protect personal privacy and the identity of sources that provided information to the FBI in confidence.
95A-HQ-1148159: October 30, 1995 to January 24, 1997, 8 pages
This file details a request made to the FBI to analyze a VHS videotape provided by the U.S. Customs Service as part of a child pornography investigation.
Some information was redacted to protect personal privacy. Four pages were referred to U.S. Customs and Immigration Enforcement for a release determination.
62D-LA-236081: January 15, 2004 to April 27, 2004, 41 pages
Our Los Angeles field office opened this file when it was asked by local authorities to provide forensic computer analysis assistance in a child molestation investigation in 2004. The examination of evidence in this case was conducted by the FBI’s Computer Analysis and Response Team (CART). Mr. Jackson was ultimately acquitted of these charges in a California court.
One hundred and twenty-three pages were withheld to protect personal privacy, the identity of sources that provided information to the FBI in confidence, and internal rules and practices or to prevent the disclosure of techniques and procedures for law enforcement investigations or prosecutions.
305B-LA-239204: September 14, 2004 to December 9, 2004, 5 pages
This Los Angeles field office file was opened in 2004 to investigate child molestation allegations. Due to lack of witness cooperation, the case was closed.
252B-IR-6808: March 1, 2004 to June 29, 2005, 18 pages
This file involves a request made of the FBI's Critical Incident Response Group to provide advice and assistance to local authorities concerning a child molestation investigation in 2004.
Some information was redacted to protect personal privacy and internal rules and practices.
View each file from here: http://www.fbi.gov/foia/electronic-read ... ph-jackson (http://www.fbi.gov/foia/electronic-reading-room/michael-joseph-jackson)
So why would certain individuals in the FBI be involved with Michael? It "offically" started off because Michael’s life was threatened, then their involvement was with the molestation accusations. It’s entirely possible that the agents researching Michael uncovered a plot where someone(s) was out to destroy Michael. If these bad people couldn’t get close enough to kill him, they would extort him and attempt to destroy his career and reputation. Suddenly it doesn't seem so far-fetched that the FBI (not the whole Bureau but certain individuals) would help Michael with his long-planned hoax - because it helps keep Michael safe and they are able to flush out those people in Michael's life who were a danger to him. The numerology is important because it shows their involvement is deliberate and planned, as is everything else with the hoax.
-
@Paula, thanks a lot for the good intentions :D
@RK, thanks a lot for the post.
-
Sorry, circumstances have taken me away from much attention here recently. Will be back soon.
there are 7 days today since circumstances took you away from here.
I hope everything is OK with you :?
-
Sorry, circumstances have taken me away from much attention here recently. Will be back soon.
there are 7 days today since circumstances took you away from here.
I hope everything is OK with you :?
Magic number 7. :)
-
Seems like we all miss our TS :)
-
Sorry, circumstances have taken me away from much attention here recently. Will be back soon.
there are 7 days today since circumstances took you away from here.
I hope everything is OK with you :?
Magic number 7. :)
and todays date 31/3 :arrow: 3 + 3 + 1 = 7 :lol:
We love you TS come back soon. :D
-
:lol: :lol: :lol:
-
Just for you TS with L.O.V.E. :D
A happy little song for you Be Back Soon!!!!
(From the musical Oliver)
I know Michael likes this hes been to see it :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyxNZ21_ ... re=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyxNZ21_D6w&feature=related) (sorry still dont know how to post this :oops: )
:D
-
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_kvYJOjDaKfI/TS3xPNaCGII/AAAAAAAAA70/8f4eZjUrdyQ/s640/corridors+of+)
Remember the film "Corridors of Blood",, the main character is addicted to the anaesthetics and a character called "Mr. Blount", as well as the paramedical
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_kvYJOjDaKfI/TS4Op3ni2XI/AAAAAAAAA78/uyUeHYLJdew/s640/cobcast.jpg)
http://www.imdb.es/name/nm0206561/ (http://www.imdb.es/name/nm0206561/)
-
Wow paula-c....great find! It's amazing all the little nuances that show up.....it would have taken years to plan this hoax for sure!
Thanks for the post!
Blessings!
-
TS :? ?! What happened to you :( ?
-
Paris' Birthday is tomorrow..Happy Bithday sweet Beautiful Girl!!
-
May your day be special in every way, Paris!
-
Can we stay on topic please?
-
I think for the moment it´s difficult to stay on topic because it seems that we are at a point where TS´help is needed.
I hope he / she is doing well.
-
Paris' Birthday is tomorrow..Happy Bithday sweet Beautiful Girl!!
May your day be special in every way, Paris!
viewtopic.php?f=162&t=18548 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=162&t=18548)
-
TS....
Where are you?
Do you not come back? :?:
Anyway, good to have you here! ;)
-
I would think that most of us here are big boys and girls and can do without TS long enough for him to take care of his personal business.
There is plenty of posts in this thread that go unchallenged or debunked. Anyone want to try?
Peace
-
Maybe TS is still grieving for Elizabeth? (http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/verkleidung/costumed-smiley-013.gif)
-
Harvey?? Where are you?? ;) 8-) :lol:
-
wow this thread has gotten off topic like crazy . :lol: :lol: :lol: :? come to think of it it has been that way for a while now. :oops: will we ever come to a conclusion on this?
-
wow this thread has gotten off topic like crazy . :lol: :lol: :lol: :? come to think of it it has been that way for a while now. :oops: will we ever come to a conclusion on this?
Yes. There was 1 ambulance, no prior day hoax rehearsal, with hospice patient who was taken to hospital who died as Michael Jackson. Ben made a few different photoshops of ambulance with MJ's picture taking supposedly to the hospital and sold to a few other sources who posted on youtube and making us confused.. (http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/party/party-smiley-038.gif)
-
Hi, justing thinking about the leaf pattern. First some of TS's comments.
by TS_comments » Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:40 am
I’m not trying to go back and discuss the red car and shadows again in great detail; but I am trying to show an example of solid investigation. Some have mentioned over-analyzing (the leaf pattern, etc). Many people are not used to heavy investigation; and if they don’t want to do it here, that is their choice. But the leaf pattern certainly has not been over analyzed, at least not in the sense of going way beyond establishing a solid theory—because NO solid theory has been established yet! It is possible that with some things, we will not be able to establish any solid theory; and if something comes to that, then so be it. But I don’t think we are at that point yet with the leaf pattern.
I already gave four strong points why it’s not a part of the background image {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309086&#p309086}. However, did anyone give two or more strong reasons in support of there being an intentional face in the image (and not an imaginary face, like seeing things in the clouds)? Did anyone try to debunk the face idea? Did anyone try to debunk the theory that the pattern is Photoshopped? And were there at least two strong reasons why it is Photoshopped?
Could it be a reflection of natural leaves during the staged photo shoot? That would answer why they don’t move with the background image (red car); but it would probably indicate an outdoor staging, which would be an unnecessary high risk. Also, in that case the pattern should overlap the paramedics arm (not go behind it).
Did anyone try to debunk the idea that it is an intentional leaf image? Did anyone notice that in my very first post about it, I referred to is as “a leaf-like pattern” {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053}? Has anyone noticed that the leaf shapes are somewhat random, and not very artistic? This would be expected if it was a reflection of natural leaves; but the reflection theory has some problems.
Could it be nothing more than an optical illusion, resulting from the combination of multiple lights and shadows—all bouncing off of the somewhat random, yet mostly circular ambulance interior pattern? If you take two overlapping circles, the area that overlaps will be shaped roughly like a leaf. Has anyone noticed that the “stem” of the main leaf pattern goes vertical, in exactly the place where the paramedics arm shadow hits the ambulance compartment wall?
by Kristina4LOVE » Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:13 pm
So i just wanted to share my thoughts on this topic)
1.- The "leaf-like pattern" did not look to me as leaf pattern at all, i did not recognize any leafs there. (It actually took me some time to understand what you guys were talking about ) But the more i looked at it the more i started to recognize "leafs" on that image. On that moment i thought that my brain started to create stuff that were not actually there or it could've been the other way around, my brain could've not seen things that were actually there until i spend more time looking at that image. (sorry if i'm a bit too confusing, English is not my first language)
2.- The other thing about the "leaf-like pattern" was that everybody obviously saw Michael's face in it. I totally agree with it, it does remind me of MJ's face BUT only the first two pictures:Ambulance 1 and Ambulance 2. On the other two pictures i can't see the face, it's kind of washed out or very light. (sorry do not know how to insert pictures here, maybe someone could help me with that?)
3.- When TS gave us this link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMB5gfcVChg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMB5gfcVChg), the video inside Ambulance #71, i guess everyone saw random patterns on the cabinet and the entire bottom part of the walls. So my opinion is that "leaf-like pattern" was created by light, especially it's possible if those cabinets and panels are made of some kind of metal stuff.
The video showing the inside of the ambulance shows a mottled type of surface to the cabinets, perhaps a metallic pattern created with special decorating tools. When the light hits them-- the overhead inside lights and the flash of the outside camera it would pick up the distictive pattern. I'm wondering if the video camera angle is only showing us a slightly blurred version of the pattern. I found in decorating on google, these texture plates, polymer clay patterns this one called "Vines",
[attachment=1:fkkfzw2h]vine texture.jpg[/attachment:fkkfzw2h]
[attachment=0:fkkfzw2h]new%20ambulance[1].JPG[/attachment:fkkfzw2h]
Just some other related connections:
Murray's swim trunks were like vine leaves, and on the HT video it shows the street sign for 1600 Vine.
We also clearly see MJ's face in the ambo pic vine "leaves" almost looking like a sitting-up reflection of the laying down MJ-- rising from the dead :o 8-) .
In the New Testament Jesus says, "I am the vine, you are the branches."
Just some thoughts.
-
Hi MJonmind! :)
Part of your post made me wonder about some conversation I had before with another person :)
I still don´t make anything from the "leaf pattern" or for what reason is relevant (even after reading some opinions).
There are some videos on youtube with manipulated images of Michael leaving the earth plane as a spirit but i can´t see that concept relevant here, since we assume that Michael is alive among other reasons.
To me, by now, the leaf pattern means nothing nor has relevance any more. The ambo pics come within layers, we assume it has been shopped but can´t determinate the date when was taken.
Coming back to the rectangle presented by TS, it made me think about a magnifyer glass. Some cameras have the ability to zoom in a lot and I think that the rectangle, even if it was presented as a part of the cabinet (the handle), it could really be a part of something else, showing the bigger and real picture but can´t determinate what.
-
I think that after going into so much detail we should go back to the bigger picture.
-
How is it possible to see a pattern on a pattern...wouldn't you see the pattern in the background as well as the leaf pattern on top?
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12428)
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy245/PhotoPlusSerif/Ambulance/PatternClose-up.jpg)
-
maybe this is one of those times when we are looking for something that just isn't there because someone suggested that there was something. make any sense?
-
maybe this is one of those times when we are looking for something that just isn't there because someone suggested that there was something. make any sense?
no sorry, :oops: can you please explain.
-
I don't know how you all feel, but i'm worried about TS.
TS, I hope you and Michael are in great health.
with L.O.V.E
-
TS said he not be for a few days
-
Where did "take your time" go? We know that the word 'soon' is a little longer in this hoax than we are used to in real life, so give him some more time.
-
He said he will be back... he will be back.
It's normal to feel anxious. But he said he will be back.
-
I guess we got spoiled there for a while. :lol:
-
Where did "take your time" go? We know that the word 'soon' is a little longer in this hoax than we are used to in real life, so give him some more time.
I'm not being impatient here, but a little worried, as i said before i hope they're in great health.
-
Maybe TS got bored because we couldn't find a meaning for the leaf-pattern (http://www.emoticonsfree.org/wp-content/uploads/indifferent0001.gif) (http://www.emoticonsfree.org/)
-
I hope TS isn't Frank Dileo.
-
I hope TS isn't Frank Dileo.
wow...never thought of it...but no, I'm almost sure TS is not FD.
-
I hope TS isn't Frank Dileo.
wow...never thought of it...but no, I'm almost sure TS is not FD.
He probably isn't but the thought did run through my mind.
-
I hope TS isn't Frank Dileo.
wow...never thought of it...but no, I'm almost sure TS is not FD.
humm guess we wait. a very interesting thought when you think about how we suddenly have nothing.
but to be practical i kind of have to go in the xGuestx direction of just a regular hoaxer.
besides there is probably no way to confirm anything in any direction anyway.
-
maybe this is one of those times when we are looking for something that just isn't there because someone suggested that there was something. make any sense?
no sorry, :oops: can you please explain.
maybe this will help
[youtube:9oxc6pks]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJG698U2Mvo[/youtube:9oxc6pks]
-
maybe this is one of those times when we are looking for something that just isn't there because someone suggested that there was something. make any sense?
no sorry, :oops: can you please explain.
maybe this will help
[youtube:m0gh27eq]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJG698U2Mvo[/youtube:m0gh27eq]
off topic, sorry, and DON'T READ MY POST IF YOU WANT TO ENJOY THE VIDEO ;)
I'm just so proud of myself that I caunted the 15 passes right and also saw the gorilla. :lol: I couldn't/didn't pay attention to the gorilla all the time it was there, I just saw it for a moment and got surprised about someone wearing a gorilla costume.
-------------------
Do you mean that someone wants to distract us so we cannot see the important thing?
-
maybe this is one of those times when we are looking for something that just isn't there because someone suggested that there was something. make any sense?
no sorry, :oops: can you please explain.
maybe this will help
[youtube:3ajt786g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJG698U2Mvo[/youtube:3ajt786g]
off topic, sorry, and DON'T READ MY POST IF YOU WANT TO ENJOY THE VIDEO ;)
I'm just so proud of myself that I caunted the 15 passes right and also saw the gorilla. :lol: I couldn't/didn't pay attention to the gorilla all the time it was there, I just saw it for a moment and got surprised about someone wearing a gorilla costume.
-------------------
Do you mean that someone wants to distract us so we cannot see the important thing?
could be that or teach us not to get distracted so we can see the important thing.
-
I hope TS isn't Frank Dileo.
:shock:
Guess we have to wait it out and see :?
;)
-
I didn't see the gorila :lol: :lol: :lol:
-
i think the first time i did this test i saw the gorilla but i missed one of the passes. i wonder if in some circles that wouldn't be seen as attention deficit :lol:
-
What about seeing a chimp´s face on the leaf pattern? :lol:
-
Very off topic but i enjoyed the moonwalking bear better than the gorilla :D
-
(http://www.quemonada.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/only_in_africa_04-500x375.jpg)!!! He was the which manipulated the photo of the ambulance " :o :lol:
-
(http://www.quemonada.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/only_in_africa_04-500x375.jpg)!!! He was the which manipulated the photo of the ambulance " :o :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: that´s why the "leaf" pattern
-
maybe this is one of those times when we are looking for something that just isn't there because someone suggested that there was something. make any sense?
no sorry, :oops: can you please explain.
maybe this will help
[youtube:2r56z05k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJG698U2Mvo[/youtube:2r56z05k]
off topic, sorry, and DON'T READ MY POST IF YOU WANT TO ENJOY THE VIDEO ;)
I'm just so proud of myself that I caunted the 15 passes right and also saw the gorilla. :lol: I couldn't/didn't pay attention to the gorilla all the time it was there, I just saw it for a moment and got surprised about someone wearing a gorilla costume.
-------------------
Do you mean that someone wants to distract us so we cannot see the important thing?
could be that or teach us not to get distracted so we can see the important thing.
That's a good question :D We also might consider this thread as a sort of training for NOT getting distracted by the media circus, prior to the trial. Just keep your eye on what's important.
-
Distraction. This is exactly what I have been thinking about the TS thread as a whole, but I have been hesitant to express my opinion. Nevertheless, here it is. Please forgive me in advance, if necessary.
I actually read through all the TIAI info as well as a number of TS’ posts and redirects a couple of months ago as a lurker on this site. I ultimately chose not to get too wrapped up in TS’ input because it hurt my brain to think about it.
I’ll explain. In the past month or so, one of the MJDH members (I don’t remember who) basically posted that she was frustrated with TS’ posts because she felt like his input was just one big circle without end. I agree. TS seems to suggest infinite questions (problems) in need of answering and then provides clues (seeming tidbits towards solutions) that keep hoaxers’ attention continually focused on solving questions that, for the most part, can only be answered with best guesses (hence, the never-ending circle). For one example, if all of TS’ numerology puzzles were suddenly solved, what difference would it make? In short, what is the overall purpose of TS’ posts? Some say his input is meant to get members to think for themselves so as not to get distracted (from a bigger picture). However, the irony is that TS’ info potentially absorbs hoaxers’ attention/thinking (to the extent of craving his posts) to the point that the focus on comprehending his convoluted writing and riddles is in itself a distraction. This is not to suggest that TS is deliberately creating a distraction (maybe he is, maybe he isn’t). The point is that absorption in his posts—and thereby, absorption in his way of thinking—is contrary to thinking for one’s self.
It’s all about conscious attention. That’s my perspective, anyway. ;)
-
Distraction. This is exactly what I have been thinking about the TS thread as a whole, but I have been hesitant to express my opinion. Nevertheless, here it is. Please forgive me in advance, if necessary.
I actually read through all the TIAI info as well as a number of TS’ posts and redirects a couple of months ago as a lurker on this site. I ultimately chose not to get too wrapped up in TS’ input because it hurt my brain to think about it.
I’ll explain. In the past month or so, one of the MJDH members (I don’t remember who) basically posted that she was frustrated with TS’ posts because she felt like his input was just one big circle without end. I agree. TS seems to suggest infinite questions (problems) in need of answering and then provides clues (seeming tidbits towards solutions) that keep hoaxers’ attention continually focused on solving questions that, for the most part, can only be answered with best guesses (hence, the never-ending circle). For one example, if all of TS’ numerology puzzles were suddenly solved, what difference would it make? In short, what is the overall purpose of TS’ posts? Some say his input is meant to get members to think for themselves so as not to get distracted (from a bigger picture). However, the irony is that TS’ info potentially absorbs hoaxers’ attention/thinking (to the extent of craving his posts) to the point that the focus on comprehending his convoluted writing and riddles is in itself a distraction. This is not to suggest that TS is deliberately creating a distraction (maybe he is, maybe he isn’t). The point is that absorption in his posts—and thereby, absorption in his way of thinking—is contrary to thinking for one’s self.
It’s all about conscious attention. That’s my perspective, anyway. ;)
something to be considered .
-
suspicious mind wrote:
starchild wrote:Distraction. This is exactly what I have been thinking about the TS thread as a whole, but I have been hesitant to express my opinion. Nevertheless, here it is. Please forgive me in advance, if necessary.
I actually read through all the TIAI info as well as a number of TS’ posts and redirects a couple of months ago as a lurker on this site. I ultimately chose not to get too wrapped up in TS’ input because it hurt my brain to think about it.
I’ll explain. In the past month or so, one of the MJDH members (I don’t remember who) basically posted that she was frustrated with TS’ posts because she felt like his input was just one big circle without end. I agree. TS seems to suggest infinite questions (problems) in need of answering and then provides clues (seeming tidbits towards solutions) that keep hoaxers’ attention continually focused on solving questions that, for the most part, can only be answered with best guesses (hence, the never-ending circle). For one example, if all of TS’ numerology puzzles were suddenly solved, what difference would it make? In short, what is the overall purpose of TS’ posts? Some say his input is meant to get members to think for themselves so as not to get distracted (from a bigger picture). However, the irony is that TS’ info potentially absorbs hoaxers’ attention/thinking (to the extent of craving his posts) to the point that the focus on comprehending his convoluted writing and riddles is in itself a distraction. This is not to suggest that TS is deliberately creating a distraction (maybe he is, maybe he isn’t). The point is that absorption in his posts—and thereby, absorption in his way of thinking—is contrary to thinking for one’s self.
It’s all about conscious attention. That’s my perspective, anyway.
something to be considered .
yes, it is true
:geek:
-
maybe this is one of those times when we are looking for something that just isn't there because someone suggested that there was something. make any sense?
no sorry, :oops: can you please explain.
maybe this will help
[youtube:1mve4ey6]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJG698U2Mvo[/youtube:1mve4ey6]
Thanks...a lil bit of brain training huh? :)
-
(http://www.quemonada.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/only_in_africa_04-500x375.jpg)!!! He was the which manipulated the photo of the ambulance " :o :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: that´s why the "leaf" pattern
Now we're finally getting somewhere! On to the next hoax project I hope.
And I didn't see the other gorilla, tunnel vision I guess. :( :lol:
-
I know this has been asked again and again but where exactly are we up to in this thread.
So the rectangle? We don't know
If the paramedics are involved? We don't know
Proving the leaf pattern is PS or not PS? We don't know
-
I know this has been asked again and again but where exactly are we up to in this thread.
So the rectangle? We don't know
If the paramedics are involved? We don't know
Proving the leaf pattern is PS or not PS? We don't know
The paramedics are involved - I think.
The rest - I don't know.
TS, I don't know if I've been conditioned or not, the fact is that I would like to see you back.
-
(http://www.quemonada.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/only_in_africa_04-500x375.jpg)!!! He was the which manipulated the photo of the ambulance " :o :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: that´s why the "leaf" pattern
Now we're finally getting somewhere! On to the next hoax project I hope.
:lol:
I see the gorilla really knows how to use an Apple.....
....life was way much easier when apple was just a fruit :lol:
-
Hello to all,
I’m relatively new here so this is my first post; however I have been following for quite some time so I ask that you please bare with me because I have come across so much info regarding this hoax and I’m not sure where to start other that with the topic at hand.
RIP Liz. :(
I am going to let you in on another little secret. The leaf pattern is not the most important part of the investigation. Then why did I start with that, and why do I repeatedly bring it up? Because it is a very good example of how to investigate—and more importantly, how NOT to investigate. And in this one sense, the leaf pattern is extremely important. Because if you use the wrong methods with the leaf pattern, then you will probably use wrong methods in other areas of investigation—and that is when it becomes very important.
Take for example the face that people have seen in the leaf pattern. It is great to have and use good imagination in investigation; we should imagine any and all possibilities, on everything that we are examining. It is okay to imagine a face, or letters, OR LEAVES!!! But don’t stop at that point! Once you have a theory, then you need to try and DEBUNK YOUR OWN THEORY! And let others try to debunk it.
And if you come up with a theory that has at least two strong points in support of it, and nobody can debunk those strong points; and if nobody can come up with any other strong theories: then you PROBABLY have found the truth. It is easy to see what we want to see; but it’s not always easy to see the truth. MJ wants us to learn how to see the truth: “the truth will prevail”!
What I get from reading TS comments post is that he wants us to establish a solid theory that cannot be dismissed/debunked by any open-minded non-believer (although I don’t believe we are supposed to convince anyone) to the point of where there is little to no doubt starting with the possible “leaf pattern” regardless of its relevance to the whole hoax. Although this pattern has been discussed on several occasions, I haven’t seen many people trying to debunk many theories regardless of whether you agree on not. I believe that this is the goal TS and Michael are trying to achieve through this lesson... in other words when you go to school you are taught that this is the reason for that with no ifs, ands or buts about it (example: if I put 2 fingers up on my right hand and 2 fingers up on my left I will always have 4 fingers up, with no ifs, ands or buts about it) - I hope that makes since. Instead what I noticed is because of the lack of knowledge in areas such as photoshop for example people just agree with other peoples theories without fully challenging it and educating themselves in the process (which is partly what the hoax is about... as far as we know.)
Take for example the shadows on the red car. This is one strong point, nobody has debunked, on why the ambulance photo was staged. But this is not the only strong point, in support of the photo being staged. Furthermore, even with the shadow, I added a second and closer picture of the shadow versus sunshine on the front left wheel area {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310880&#p310880}. So there are two strong evidences of the shadow aspect alone; and the shadow aspect alone is only one of more than two strong points about the ambulance photo being fake (and staged). This is how you build strong investigation.
Nobody has yet even made a serious attempt to debunk the shadow differences on the red car. Souza said maybe a local whirlwind; but of course she was just joking. It is theoretically possible, but very unlikely; furthermore, even if there was a whirlwind, we could probably find evidences of it in the video and/or the series of still pictures (with a whirlwind, even a split second would make a big difference in the shadows on the car—and you could probably hear it in the audio track).
Also, being early afternoon, the sun would be high in the sky; so something moving on the ground would not be in the right position to block the sunlight on the red car. It would have to be something in the sky; but clouds move too slowly to change the shadows that much in a few seconds. Maybe an airplane flew by just at the right second to block the sun! Again, extremely unlikely; and even if that’s what happened, you could probably hear it (and/or see evidences of the shadow moving rapidly, while the pap was running with the camera).
I’m not trying to go back and discuss the red car and shadows again in great detail; but I am trying to show an example of solid investigation. Some have mentioned over-analyzing (the leaf pattern, etc). Many people are not used to heavy investigation; and if they don’t want to do it here, that is their choice. But the leaf pattern certainly has not been over analyzed, at least not in the sense of going way beyond establishing a solid theory—because NO solid theory has been established yet! It is possible that with some things, we will not be able to establish any solid theory; and if something comes to that, then so be it. But I don’t think we are at that point yet with the leaf pattern.
I already gave four strong points why it’s not a part of the background image {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309086&#p309086}. However, did anyone give two or more strong reasons in support of there being an intentional face in the image (and not an imaginary face, like seeing things in the clouds)? Did anyone try to debunk the face idea? Did anyone try to debunk the theory that the pattern is Photoshopped? And were there at least two strong reasons why it is Photoshopped?
Could it be a reflection of natural leaves during the staged photo shoot? That would answer why they don’t move with the background image (red car); but it would probably indicate an outdoor staging, which would be an unnecessary high risk. Also, in that case the pattern should overlap the paramedics arm (not go behind it).
Did anyone try to debunk the idea that it is an intentional leaf image? Did anyone notice that in my very first post about it, I referred to is as “a leaf-like pattern” {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053}? Has anyone noticed that the leaf shapes are somewhat random, and not very artistic? This would be expected if it was a reflection of natural leaves; but the reflection theory has some problems.
Could it be nothing more than an optical illusion, resulting from the combination of multiple lights and shadows—all bouncing off of the somewhat random, yet mostly circular ambulance interior pattern? If you take two overlapping circles, the area that overlaps will be shaped roughly like a leaf. Has anyone noticed that the “stem” of the main leaf pattern goes vertical, in exactly the place where the paramedics arm shadow hits the ambulance compartment wall?
I am giving far more questions here than answers; but again, far more important than the leaf pattern itself, is how we approach the process of investigation. Yet it may have a degree of significance, in the current question of whether or not ambulance #71 was used for the staged photo (and therefore whether at least some of the paramedics are involved in the hoax).
I do want to get back to the paramedics, the FBI, etc; and hopefully we can move on to a new level soon. But I really felt that most people still were not getting the basic concept of critical analysis. I hope that it comes through clearer now, and that we will not forget to challenge our own theories—this is the only way that we can expect the truth to prevail! :)
Here is my theory based upon TS comments last post:
To me the more I look at the face in the leaves, the more it resembles various other famous pictures of MJ including the one of him lying on the stretcher in the hoax photo but without the mouth piece (I can create a image if needed, I just can’t do it from my laptop at this time.) Now, although there is no definite way to prove that the image within the “leaf-like pattern” is a image of MJ, I believe the odds are extremely rare for one, that the leaves just so happened the be positioned in a way that resembles several of MJ’s pics within a picture of Michael Jackson.
Secondly, when I looked up the info on seeing things in the clouds this is what I found: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia) According to this article “Carl Sagan hypothesized that as a survival technique, human beings are "hard-wired" from birth to identify the human face. This allows people to use only minimal details to recognize faces from a distance and in poor visibility but can also lead them to interpret random images or patterns of light and shade as being faces.”
Based upon this info, I am further convinced that it is more likely than not that the image that appears in the hoax photo was in fact manipulated into the photo because as stated above “people use only minimal details to recognize faces” and the face in the “leaf-like pattern” doesn’t just resemble any face, it resembles several photos of Michael. Furthermore, the picture actually looks more like Michael the closer you get to it vs. looking at it from a distance and the visibility in the picture I would not consider poor because you can see the difference in the shadowing and details such as where it disappears behind other objects which could not be distinguished if the picture was low quality (keep in mind this picture was supposedly taken with a high quality camera, so what are the odds of it producing a low quality photo in just that part of the picture anyways?)
In regards to it possibly being a reflection, I also researched a little on reflections and learned there are three types of reflections:
(http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/e ... eflection/ (http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Traffic_Safety/TSS/Resources/Education/Reflection/) this site actually gives a little demo of how each type works)
1. Diffuse Reflection occurs when light strikes rough surfaces, such as pavement, foliage, clothing and vehicles. These surfaces cause the light beams to scatter in all directions.
2. Mirror Reflection occurs when light strikes surfaces that are smooth or glossy. The light reflects off the surfaces at an equal, but opposite angle to the source.
3. Retroreflection occurs when surfaces return a portion of the directed light back to its source.
Now, I don’t believe what so ever that the “leaf-like pattern” is a reflection AT ALL because it is the only part that managed to be “reflected” onto the inside of the ambulance and not onto the window like everything else in question but even if I indulged into it possibility, it would lose all credibility because all of the reflections in the picture are mirror reflections and in order for the “leaf-like pattern” to be in the position it is in and still be a reflection the picture would have to be shot from a different angle on the other side of the ambulance. There are many reasons that I doubt that this image is not a reflection, but to keep this post as short as possible I’ll just start with those two.
As far as TS comments saying “the leaf shapes are somewhat random, and not very artistic” I would have to disagree because for one as I mentioned above this pattern looks like several of MJ’s pics therefore, for anyone to be able to manipulate that “leaf-like pattern” and make it look like MJ I would consider to be very artistic.
Regarding the optical illusion aspect, I believe this whole hoax photo is an optical illusion because the reflections and shadows etc., etc., etc. don’t add up naturally... it’s intention was to convince the general public to buy whatever they were selling NO QUESTIONS ASKED like the media does EVERY SINGLE DAY, NO MATTER WHAT.
I don’t believe the “leaf-like pattern” is “the result from a combination of multiple lights and shadows” because of the distance between the rest of the shadows in the ambulance and the objects that they obviously came from compared to the “leaf-like pattern” that is random with no apparent source. Also, going back to the types of reflections, this would be considered a diffuse reflection but in a diffuse reflection the light would scatter in all directions and in this photo we have a very distinct image whether they are leaves or not, not an image of scattered light. Besides, like TS comments also pointed out; “the “stem” of the main leaf pattern goes vertical, in exactly the place where the paramedic’s arm shadow hits the ambulance compartment wall”; so I suppose the other part of this pattern is just floating in mid air :) .
In conclusion, I am convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that the “leaf-like pattern” was add into the photo by using photoshop because of the reasons I’ve stated above and photoshop would also explain other questionable aspects of this photo.
I believe the photo of MJ inside the real ambulance 71 was done on the other day (possible at Culver City Studios); whether MJ was actually inside the ambulance, or whether it was a dummy or whatever is irrelevant at this point right now because we’re only basing this picture off of MJ’s likeness and anyone could pull this off with or without the real MJ, any intermediate professional in photoshop could even pull this off with the right tools/equipment. I believe that on June 25 several pictures were taken to serve as the reflections whether they were taken at the window of ambulance 71, a parked car/suv, the fire truck or any other tinted window in the area is also irrelevant because all they needed was the reflection (that way the final product would definitely coincide with the time and day). This also could explain why there are different shadows on the red car. There was more than one camera person there, so it’s likely that there is more than one shot of this red car and with photoshop you can easily blend different pictures together to make it look like one solid image; actually to me the shadows looks more like a photoshop trick than anything else because they’re differences aren’t that different. Once Ben and his crew got back to their office they then cropped the background picture which is the ambulance pic (because the background picture is always the darkest), added the “leaf-like pattern” (possibly using a paint brush) which I would assume is the second layer, that’s why it looks more like a part of the background, then for the following layer(s) the reflections were added. Parts of each layer were probably then enhanced, the opacity could of possibly been changed on other parts, a gradient and/or filter could of been added to others as well as numerous other tricks that photoshop can achieve. The images were then merged together to produce the final product (jpeg) that was later released to the media.
I apologize for the long post, but this has been a long time coming and I’ve only scratched the surface of what I think about this whole hoax so I’m just going to try to be patient and let TS lead (I can’t wait to get into the FBI parts though because I have a very plausible theory for that as well.) Please, anyone that reads my post, feel free to question me on any of it, whether you agree or not...I’m not saying I’m right, but I love a challenge and I believe in turn that we will all gain a valuable learning experience.
Much love to all! Xoxo
-
Thanks for your post and welcome...are you TS?...joke...sorry my paranoia was just wearing off.
I like your points but I still don't understand you said the leaf like pattern was the only reflection but so was the red car and the outside...even though that might be photoshopped too.
-
Thanks for your post and welcome...are you TS?...joke...sorry my paranoia was just wearing off.
I can't take this as a joke because I had the same thought.
As I am officialy paranoid, I have no problem in asking the same.
Maybe I'll change my username to paranoid.
-
Thanks for your post and welcome...are you TS?...joke...sorry my paranoia was just wearing off.
I can't take this as a joke because I had the same thought.
As I am officialy paranoid, I have no problem in asking the same.
Maybe I'll change my username to paranoid.
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=18198&p=320486#p320486 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=18198&p=320486#p320486)
-
Distraction. This is exactly what I have been thinking about the TS thread as a whole, but I have been hesitant to express my opinion. Nevertheless, here it is. Please forgive me in advance, if necessary.
I actually read through all the TIAI info as well as a number of TS’ posts and redirects a couple of months ago as a lurker on this site. I ultimately chose not to get too wrapped up in TS’ input because it hurt my brain to think about it.
I’ll explain. In the past month or so, one of the MJDH members (I don’t remember who) basically posted that she was frustrated with TS’ posts because she felt like his input was just one big circle without end. I agree. TS seems to suggest infinite questions (problems) in need of answering and then provides clues (seeming tidbits towards solutions) that keep hoaxers’ attention continually focused on solving questions that, for the most part, can only be answered with best guesses (hence, the never-ending circle). For one example, if all of TS’ numerology puzzles were suddenly solved, what difference would it make? In short, what is the overall purpose of TS’ posts? Some say his input is meant to get members to think for themselves so as not to get distracted (from a bigger picture). However, the irony is that TS’ info potentially absorbs hoaxers’ attention/thinking (to the extent of craving his posts) to the point that the focus on comprehending his convoluted writing and riddles is in itself a distraction. This is not to suggest that TS is deliberately creating a distraction (maybe he is, maybe he isn’t). The point is that absorption in his posts—and thereby, absorption in his way of thinking—is contrary to thinking for one’s self.
It’s all about conscious attention. That’s my perspective, anyway. ;)
Thank you for your post, starchild!
I personally find it very possible that TS is deliberately creating a distraction. When I wrote above "Do you mean that someone wants to distract us so we cannot see the important thing?" I actually meant that that "someone" is TS.
Maybe we really should start a new thread about this topic, as Souza suggested. As I see, this is important to many of us.
-
Distraction. This is exactly what I have been thinking about the TS thread as a whole, but I have been hesitant to express my opinion. Nevertheless, here it is. Please forgive me in advance, if necessary.
I actually read through all the TIAI info as well as a number of TS’ posts and redirects a couple of months ago as a lurker on this site. I ultimately chose not to get too wrapped up in TS’ input because it hurt my brain to think about it.
I’ll explain. In the past month or so, one of the MJDH members (I don’t remember who) basically posted that she was frustrated with TS’ posts because she felt like his input was just one big circle without end. I agree. TS seems to suggest infinite questions (problems) in need of answering and then provides clues (seeming tidbits towards solutions) that keep hoaxers’ attention continually focused on solving questions that, for the most part, can only be answered with best guesses (hence, the never-ending circle). For one example, if all of TS’ numerology puzzles were suddenly solved, what difference would it make? In short, what is the overall purpose of TS’ posts? Some say his input is meant to get members to think for themselves so as not to get distracted (from a bigger picture). However, the irony is that TS’ info potentially absorbs hoaxers’ attention/thinking (to the extent of craving his posts) to the point that the focus on comprehending his convoluted writing and riddles is in itself a distraction. This is not to suggest that TS is deliberately creating a distraction (maybe he is, maybe he isn’t). The point is that absorption in his posts—and thereby, absorption in his way of thinking—is contrary to thinking for one’s self.
It’s all about conscious attention. That’s my perspective, anyway. ;)
Thank you for your post, starchild!
I personally find it very possible that TS is deliberately creating a distraction. When I wrote above "Do you mean that someone wants to distract us so we cannot see the important thing?" I actually meant that that "someone" is TS.
Maybe we really should start a new thread about this topic, as Souza suggested. As I see, this is important to many of us.
Thank you, DREAMSandTRUTH. I had been thinking of giving this post a bump to generate thought. It kind of got lost in the shuffle of more recent posts.
-
Thanks for your post and welcome...are you TS?...joke...sorry my paranoia was just wearing off.
I like your points but I still don't understand you said the leaf like pattern was the only reflection but so was the red car and the outside...even though that might be photoshopped too.
No, I'm not TS although I would give anything to trade places with him to be in touch with Michael and know all is well with him :).
What I meant is the "leaf like pattern" is the only questionable reflection on the interior of the ambulance… Everything else is a supposed reflection off of the ambulance window. I hope this makes sense.
P.S. Thanks for the warm welcome
-
Thanks for your post and welcome...are you TS?...joke...sorry my paranoia was just wearing off.
I can't take this as a joke because I had the same thought.
As I am officialy paranoid, I have no problem in asking the same.
Maybe I'll change my username to paranoid.
Then you can have 2 accounts and be on the cool list!! :lol:
-
I apologize for the long post, but this has been a long time coming and I’ve only scratched the surface of what I think about this whole hoax so I’m just going to try to be patient and let TS lead (I can’t wait to get into the FBI parts though because I have a very plausible theory for that as well.) Please, anyone that reads my post, feel free to question me on any of it, whether you agree or not...I’m not saying I’m right, but I love a challenge and I believe in turn that we will all gain a valuable learning experience.
Much love to all! Xoxo
Hello mjsmyheart! :D WELCOME!!! :D I really enjoyed reading your post, so here are some questions i wanted to ask you. Same as you i believe that the "leaf-like pattern" is not a reflection, but the question is WHY would they photoshop it into the picture? Why would they want us to see Michael's face in this patter?
Also i would love to hear your theory about FBI, because this thread was supposed to be about Paramedics (real, not real, involved in the hoax, not involved).
L.O.V.E to all! :D
-
Hello mjsmyheart! :D WELCOME!!! :D I really enjoyed reading your post, so here are some questions i wanted to ask you. Same as you i believe that the "leaf-like pattern" is not a reflection, but the question is WHY would they photoshop it into the picture? Why would they want us to see Michael's face in this patter?
Also i would love to hear your theory about FBI, because this thread was supposed to be about Paramedics (real, not real, involved in the hoax, not involved).
L.O.V.E to all! :D
Hello Kristina4LOVE,
I'm glad you enjoyed the post and I thank you for responding; I've been dying to express my beliefs for soooo long now but had no one to share them with so I appreciate you guys for allowing me to do that.
With regards to your questions...
I believe the "leaf-like pattern" was photoshopped into the picture to act like a pre-test I guess. My belief is based on the following comment from TS comments:
I am going to let you in on another little secret. The leaf pattern is not the most important part of the investigation. Then why did I start with that, and why do I repeatedly bring it up? Because it is a very good example of how to investigate—and more importantly, how NOT to investigate. And in this one sense, the leaf pattern is extremely important. Because if you use the wrong methods with the leaf pattern, then you will probably use wrong methods in other areas of investigation—and that is when it becomes very important.
What I understand from this comment is that the pattern has nothing to do with this hoax (or at least it's an insignificant part.) It's purpose is only to serve as a pre-test so that we can train our brains and condition our ways of thinking for the much larger part of this hoax.
I believe MJ's face was planted into the picture within the 'leaf-like pattern" to further prove that the pattern is a manipulation of photoshop. I'm not as good with numbers as TS and MJ but I would love to know what the odds are that there is clearly an image MJ within the MJ hoax photo :D.
In other words what I think TS is trying to say (and I apologize if I am wrong) is how are we supposed to debunk the more serious matters of this hoax (possible FBI involvement, the judicial system, the medical field, etc. which are so much more complicated matters) if we can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that an obvious hoax photo is FAKE!
As far as the FBI, I'm gonna try to keep it breif because I've noticed that once I start writing on this thread my thoughts get ahead of me and by the time I'm done I've written a novel. lol :P To be honest, I never really thought about the FBI actually being involved until I read it on this thread, but now that I consider it the FBI involvement would explain soooo much. Now, I haven't done too much reseach on this theory to build a strong case but what I believe is that the paramedics are actually FBI agents that really work as paramedics. What I mean by that, is that when the FBI is working on a mission I would assume they would have their own trained paramedics because of the nature of their cases; I don't think a regular paramedic would have the same advanced training that I assume the FBI paramedics would because the FBI are trained for some of the worst type of situations.
I'm also convinced that the FBI is more likely than not involved because it explains things such as Joe telling LK "I don't know where the body is, THEY won't tell me." Seriously, first of all who else could THEY be? What I got from reading the numerous book I have on MJ is that if Katherine knew then Joe would know too. Now what are the odds that Katherine (Michael's own beloved mother) would not know where her child's body was at all times if he was in fact dead. Besides, didn't other family members "visit the body;" now I understand Joe when he says he doesn't want to remember him like that because burying your own child has to be the hardest thing in the world but that doesn't stop one from knowing where the body is.
Ok, I gonna have to stop there for now because there are sooooo many leads that right now only the FBI could be the answer to IMO and I will be literally typing for days :shock:
Please share with me your thoughts though because I would love to know what you think about this situation.
Much love xoxo
-
Thanks for your post and welcome...are you TS?...joke...sorry my paranoia was just wearing off.
I can't take this as a joke because I had the same thought.
As I am officialy paranoid, I have no problem in asking the same.
Maybe I'll change my username to paranoid.
Then you can have 2 accounts and be on the cool list!! :lol:
I thought I already was on the "cool" list for other reasons :lol:
Anyway, I don't need 2 accounts, as I have troubles managing ONE personality :mrgreen:
-
@mjsmyheart I wanna tell you that MJ is my heart too :D
I agree with your ideas.
Oh, and hello TS, aren't you watching.......
Come on, just say hello.....
-
@mjsmyheart I wanna tell you that MJ is my heart too :D
I agree with your ideas.
Oh, and hello TS, aren't you watching.......
Come on, just say hello.....
I'm sure this site is full of L.O.V.E.!!! :D
When you say my ideas though, are you talking about my ideas regards the "leaf-like pattern", the FBI and/or both?
Just curious because I've been dying for someone to challenge them because I feel like I just might be missing something... Maybe it's my paranoia :P or my brain is working on auto-pilot :shock:
please share with me your thoughts
-
I agree with your ideas about FBI.
But I also like your theory about the leaf-pattern.
-
mjsmyheart, thank you for your fresh input into this TS brain-teaser. I liked what you wrote. You seem to be a strong logic based thinker, which is good for this. You put quite a bit of confidence in the face in the leaves being deliberate, whereas I took them as random, since people have been seeing faces in lots of other places. I agree the FBI agents are probably professionally paramedics as well. Now if only we had an actual FBI agent who would become a member here and post his perspective.
-
In other words what I think TS is trying to say (and I apologize if I am wrong) is how are we supposed to debunk the more serious matters of this hoax (possible FBI involvement, the judicial system, the medical field, etc. which are so much more complicated matters) if we can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that an obvious hoax photo is FAKE!
Totally agree with you here, and the statement holds true regardless of one's thoughts about TS.
Also true is that 'we' shouldn't be proving anything - 'I' should prove things for myself. It's all too easy (and evident all over the forum) to agree with and believe in whatever 'feels' right or comfortable or keeps us sane, but that doesn't make those things the truth.
Some here appear to have expert knowledge of photography - I don't, nor do I have the time or desire to educate myself to a level where I can prove this photo a fake. I also have no expert knowledge of the FBI, judicial system or medical field, so if the trial ever gets under way, how will I sort truth from lies?
If I don't have the expertise to 'prove' things, what can I base my beliefs on? I believe it takes many, many years to become an 'expert' in something - it's not a question of reading a few internet articles! I think sometimes it comes down to placing trust in someone/something and I don't think this can be found on any anonymous internet site.
Back to the fence for me!
-
This is my comparison video. It shows the difference when lighter and darker shades of light are added. It does alter the pattern on the compartment. Also, I noticed something really weird. Michaels skin colour on his face, does not change that much when I brighten the images, whereas the paramedics arms change alot...I wonder what the reason for this could be !!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fvCOlnsxJ4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fvCOlnsxJ4)
[youtube:3d274gwp]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fvCOlnsxJ4[/youtube:3d274gwp]
-
I can't see that video
-
To me the more I look at the face in the leaves, the more it resembles various other famous pictures of MJ including the one of him lying on the stretcher in the hoax photo but without the mouth piece (I can create a image if needed, I just can’t do it from my laptop at this time.) Now, although there is no definite way to prove that the image within the “leaf-like pattern” is a image of MJ, I believe the odds are extremely rare for one, that the leaves just so happened the be positioned in a way that resembles several of MJ’s pics within a picture of Michael Jackson.
Secondly, when I looked up the info on seeing things in the clouds this is what I found: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia) According to this article “Carl Sagan hypothesized that as a survival technique, human beings are "hard-wired" from birth to identify the human face. This allows people to use only minimal details to recognize faces from a distance and in poor visibility but can also lead them to interpret random images or patterns of light and shade as being faces.”
Based upon this info, I am further convinced that it is more likely than not that the image that appears in the hoax photo was in fact manipulated into the photo because as stated above “people use only minimal details to recognize faces” and the face in the “leaf-like pattern” doesn’t just resemble any face, it resembles several photos of Michael. Furthermore, the picture actually looks more like Michael the closer you get to it vs. looking at it from a distance and the visibility in the picture I would not consider poor because you can see the difference in the shadowing and details such as where it disappears behind other objects which could not be distinguished if the picture was low quality (keep in mind this picture was supposedly taken with a high quality camera, so what are the odds of it producing a low quality photo in just that part of the picture anyways?)
The conclusion you propose, that the odds are extremely rare for the pattern to resemle MJ's face, is contradicting the theory that humans can identify other people's faces using minimum characteristics. This ability has been a strong asset in human evolution, because humans could and still can identify other people , whether allies or enemies, due to their memory. This means that minimum characteristics can lead to any combination possible, several millions actually, and that difference is made only through memory. For example, many times we see from a distance someone on the road and believe that he/she is a familiar person and then we realise that he/she is just a stranger. Saying that this pattern resembles MJ's pictures is a selective identification using our memory data for MJ. This pattern can be anything, from a wolf with ears to a monster with horns according to our own memory and imagination.
-
Distraction. This is exactly what I have been thinking about the TS thread as a whole, but I have been hesitant to express my opinion. Nevertheless, here it is. Please forgive me in advance, if necessary.
I actually read through all the TIAI info as well as a number of TS’ posts and redirects a couple of months ago as a lurker on this site. I ultimately chose not to get too wrapped up in TS’ input because it hurt my brain to think about it.
I’ll explain. In the past month or so, one of the MJDH members (I don’t remember who) basically posted that she was frustrated with TS’ posts because she felt like his input was just one big circle without end. I agree. TS seems to suggest infinite questions (problems) in need of answering and then provides clues (seeming tidbits towards solutions) that keep hoaxers’ attention continually focused on solving questions that, for the most part, can only be answered with best guesses (hence, the never-ending circle). For one example, if all of TS’ numerology puzzles were suddenly solved, what difference would it make? In short, what is the overall purpose of TS’ posts? Some say his input is meant to get members to think for themselves so as not to get distracted (from a bigger picture). However, the irony is that TS’ info potentially absorbs hoaxers’ attention/thinking (to the extent of craving his posts) to the point that the focus on comprehending his convoluted writing and riddles is in itself a distraction. This is not to suggest that TS is deliberately creating a distraction (maybe he is, maybe he isn’t). The point is that absorption in his posts—and thereby, absorption in his way of thinking—is contrary to thinking for one’s self.
It’s all about conscious attention. That’s my perspective, anyway. ;)
Thank you for your post, starchild!
I personally find it very possible that TS is deliberately creating a distraction. When I wrote above "Do you mean that someone wants to distract us so we cannot see the important thing?" I actually meant that that "someone" is TS.
Maybe we really should start a new thread about this topic, as Souza suggested. As I see, this is important to many of us.
Thank you, DREAMSandTRUTH. I had been thinking of giving this post a bump to generate thought. It kind of got lost in the shuffle of more recent posts.
There are so many people here, with different opinions, so it always happens that our posts seem to get lost. It doesn't mean that members don't read them, or don't think them over, it's just not everybody thinks alike or is interested in the same topic, etc. I posted a similar opinion about TS on page 30, but not too many people reacted to it either. I just wanted to call people's attention to the possibility that TS might just want to distract us, or simply is playing with us - but I guess people here already thought it over thoroughly (probably many times) and made their decisions in connection with TS. Many members trust him/her as I see, and I have to respect their decisions. So I start to think that not too many people would be interested to talk about TS's intentions... Well, I shared my thoughts here, everyone had the opportunity to think them over, and I think that's it...
-
This is my comparison video. It shows the difference when lighter and darker shades of light are added. It does alter the pattern on the compartment. Also, I noticed something really weird. Michaels skin colour on his face, does not change that much when I brighten the images, whereas the paramedics arms change alot...I wonder what the reason for this could be !!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fvCOlnsxJ4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fvCOlnsxJ4)
[youtube:3peh1vx0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fvCOlnsxJ4[/youtube:3peh1vx0]
I agree. I can clearly see the color differences on the arms of the paramedics, yet Michael's skin color hardly changes, when changing shades. Good catch! Makes me wonder too: is it possible when Michael's image has been pasted in the ambulance picture, which is photoshop i.e. fake, the pasted image can't be color manipulated as the 'normal' ambulance picture? May be a question for a photo technician?
-
This is my comparison video. It shows the difference when lighter and darker shades of light are added. It does alter the pattern on the compartment. Also, I noticed something really weird. Michaels skin colour on his face, does not change that much when I brighten the images, whereas the paramedics arms change alot...I wonder what the reason for this could be !!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fvCOlnsxJ4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fvCOlnsxJ4)
[youtube:30aierzj]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fvCOlnsxJ4[/youtube:30aierzj]
I agree. I can clearly see the color differences on the arms of the paramedics, yet Michael's skin color hardly changes, when changing shades. Good catch! Makes me wonder too: is it possible when Michael's image has been pasted in the ambulance picture, which is photoshop i.e. fake, the pasted image can't be color manipulated as the 'normal' ambulance picture? May be a question for a photo technician?
:shock: :? I wish I knew more about photograph technology and computer manipulation I really do, but I can see there are differences, do you think it is possible that the change in skin colour of Michael is not affected if perhaps it was a manaquine and not a really person would the consistence of the "wax" if it was in fact a manaquine perhaps not react to the light in the same way as human skin? :?
Sorry for my limited imput.
:roll:
-
Distraction. This is exactly what I have been thinking about the TS thread as a whole, but I have been hesitant to express my opinion. Nevertheless, here it is. Please forgive me in advance, if necessary.
I actually read through all the TIAI info as well as a number of TS’ posts and redirects a couple of months ago as a lurker on this site. I ultimately chose not to get too wrapped up in TS’ input because it hurt my brain to think about it.
I’ll explain. In the past month or so, one of the MJDH members (I don’t remember who) basically posted that she was frustrated with TS’ posts because she felt like his input was just one big circle without end. I agree. TS seems to suggest infinite questions (problems) in need of answering and then provides clues (seeming tidbits towards solutions) that keep hoaxers’ attention continually focused on solving questions that, for the most part, can only be answered with best guesses (hence, the never-ending circle). For one example, if all of TS’ numerology puzzles were suddenly solved, what difference would it make? In short, what is the overall purpose of TS’ posts? Some say his input is meant to get members to think for themselves so as not to get distracted (from a bigger picture). However, the irony is that TS’ info potentially absorbs hoaxers’ attention/thinking (to the extent of craving his posts) to the point that the focus on comprehending his convoluted writing and riddles is in itself a distraction. This is not to suggest that TS is deliberately creating a distraction (maybe he is, maybe he isn’t). The point is that absorption in his posts—and thereby, absorption in his way of thinking—is contrary to thinking for one’s self.
It’s all about conscious attention. That’s my perspective, anyway. ;)
Thank you for your post, starchild!
I personally find it very possible that TS is deliberately creating a distraction. When I wrote above "Do you mean that someone wants to distract us so we cannot see the important thing?" I actually meant that that "someone" is TS.
Maybe we really should start a new thread about this topic, as Souza suggested. As I see, this is important to many of us.
Thank you, DREAMSandTRUTH. I had been thinking of giving this post a bump to generate thought. It kind of got lost in the shuffle of more recent posts.
There are so many people here, with different opinions, so it always happens that our posts seem to get lost. It doesn't mean that members don't read them, or don't think them over, it's just not everybody thinks alike or is interested in the same topic, etc. I posted a similar opinion about TS on page 30, but not too many people reacted to it either. I just wanted to call people's attention to the possibility that TS might just want to distract us, or simply is playing with us - but I guess people here already thought it over thoroughly (probably many times) and made their decisions in connection with TS. Many members trust him/her as I see, and I have to respect their decisions. So I start to think that not too many people would be interested to talk about TS's intentions... Well, I shared my thoughts here, everyone had the opportunity to think them over, and I think that's it...
Agreed. ;)
-
mjsmyheart, thank you for your fresh input into this TS brain-teaser. I liked what you wrote. You seem to be a strong logic based thinker, which is good for this. You put quite a bit of confidence in the face in the leaves being deliberate, whereas I took them as random, since people have been seeing faces in lots of other places. I agree the FBI agents are probably professionally paramedics as well. Now if only we had an actual FBI agent who would become a member here and post his perspective.
Well TS did mention they do randomly check on this site so let's just hope and pray we get that lucky that they would respond; if not maybe TS can guide us in that direction. But I totally agree with you, if a actual FBI agent would post on here that would be AWESOME! :!: !
-
This is my comparison video. It shows the difference when lighter and darker shades of light are added. It does alter the pattern on the compartment. Also, I noticed something really weird. Michaels skin colour on his face, does not change that much when I brighten the images, whereas the paramedics arms change alot...I wonder what the reason for this could be !!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fvCOlnsxJ4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fvCOlnsxJ4)
[youtube:1eci6gwp]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fvCOlnsxJ4[/youtube:1eci6gwp]
I agree. I can clearly see the color differences on the arms of the paramedics, yet Michael's skin color hardly changes, when changing shades. Good catch! Makes me wonder too: is it possible when Michael's image has been pasted in the ambulance picture, which is photoshop i.e. fake, the pasted image can't be color manipulated as the 'normal' ambulance picture? May be a question for a photo technician?
:shock: :? I wish I knew more about photograph technology and computer manipulation I really do, but I can see there are differences, do you think it is possible that the change in skin colour of Michael is not affected if perhaps it was a manaquine and not a really person would the consistence of the "wax" if it was in fact a manaquine perhaps not react to the light in the same way as human skin? :?
Sorry for my limited imput.
:roll:
Well, I actually found out that overlapping pictures, will cause loss of some colours.
Copying And Pasting Between Images
I'm a PS newbie, and I've been trying to copy a selection from one image and paste it in another. This normally works perfectly, but I've been having real problems with one image. Whenever I copy something onto it (with most pics, at least; haven't tried them all) the copied selection loses all colour and texture and becomes an apparently random selection of white and black pixels.
-
This is my comparison video. It shows the difference when lighter and darker shades of light are added. It does alter the pattern on the compartment. Also, I noticed something really weird. Michaels skin colour on his face, does not change that much when I brighten the images, whereas the paramedics arms change alot...I wonder what the reason for this could be !!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fvCOlnsxJ4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fvCOlnsxJ4)
[youtube:1o3i4od0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fvCOlnsxJ4[/youtube:1o3i4od0]
I agree. I can clearly see the color differences on the arms of the paramedics, yet Michael's skin color hardly changes, when changing shades. Good catch! Makes me wonder too: is it possible when Michael's image has been pasted in the ambulance picture, which is photoshop i.e. fake, the pasted image can't be color manipulated as the 'normal' ambulance picture? May be a question for a photo technician?
:shock: :? I wish I knew more about photograph technology and computer manipulation I really do, but I can see there are differences, do you think it is possible that the change in skin colour of Michael is not affected if perhaps it was a manaquine and not a really person would the consistence of the "wax" if it was in fact a manaquine perhaps not react to the light in the same way as human skin? :?
Sorry for my limited imput.
:roll:
Well, I actually found out that overlapping pictures, will cause loss of some colours.
Copying And Pasting Between Images
I'm a PS newbie, and I've been trying to copy a selection from one image and paste it in another. This normally works perfectly, but I've been having real problems with one image. Whenever I copy something onto it (with most pics, at least; haven't tried them all) the copied selection loses all colour and texture and becomes an apparently random selection of white and black pixels.
OK 2good2btrue, thanks very much, for the explanation ;) I do find PS very complicated, and havent even tried to do it myself, editing photos is tooooo difficult for me, :lol: :oops: Im getting old I guess :lol: :lol:
:P
Love to you xx
:P
-
Call me crazy...but I've been re-watching Souza's videos YT took down. I'm on TIAI Update #2: JACK5ONS Tweet on 1-18 About TIAI "Revealed" 1/4 and just got to this:
"See truths when they are revealed to you. UR eyes don't lie-Media does"
Just thought I'd throw that out there since we know the photo is fake (media). In the old days we would just sandwich negatives or burn something in to get a manipulated picture, now it's PS. But the part about 'your eyes don't lie'... is this implying we were SUPPOSED to see MJ's face in the leaves??? Just to stir up all these questions? :lol:
-
mjsmyheart, thank you for your fresh input into this TS brain-teaser. I liked what you wrote. You seem to be a strong logic based thinker, which is good for this. You put quite a bit of confidence in the face in the leaves being deliberate, whereas I took them as random, since people have been seeing faces in lots of other places. I agree the FBI agents are probably professionally paramedics as well. Now if only we had an actual FBI agent who would become a member here and post his perspective.
Well TS did mention they do randomly check on this site so let's just hope and pray we get that lucky that they would respond; if not maybe TS can guide us in that direction. But I totally agree with you, if a actual FBI agent would post on here that would be AWESOME! :!: !
I remember back when this all started either watching a video or reading something about an FBI agent that had recently retired but "said" MJ was alive in Protective Services. True or not, just rang a bell. Tho we are "stuck" right now, I don"t see how MJ could pull this off without assistance just from pure size, scope and legality issues from IF and when he ever comes back. /ponder
-
In other words what I think TS is trying to say (and I apologize if I am wrong) is how are we supposed to debunk the more serious matters of this hoax (possible FBI involvement, the judicial system, the medical field, etc. which are so much more complicated matters) if we can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that an obvious hoax photo is FAKE!
Totally agree with you here, and the statement holds true regardless of one's thoughts about TS.
Also true is that 'we' shouldn't be proving anything - 'I' should prove things for myself. It's all too easy (and evident all over the forum) to agree with and believe in whatever 'feels' right or comfortable or keeps us sane, but that doesn't make those things the truth.
Some here appear to have expert knowledge of photography - I don't, nor do I have the time or desire to educate myself to a level where I can prove this photo a fake. I also have no expert knowledge of the FBI, judicial system or medical field, so if the trial ever gets under way, how will I sort truth from lies?
If I don't have the expertise to 'prove' things, what can I base my beliefs on? I believe it takes many, many years to become an 'expert' in something - it's not a question of reading a few internet articles! I think sometimes it comes down to placing trust in someone/something and I don't think this can be found on any anonymous internet site.
Back to the fence for me!
Hi curls,
Although you say you don't have the time or desire to educate yourself to a level where you can prove this photo is fake I believe you do have the desire to some extent because you found a moment to read and comment on this forum (and I mean that with ALL due respect). Furthermore, maybe you didn't realize it but by reading my first post (and I'm sure many others on this site) you have educated yourself in the process in areas that otherwise you might not have looked.
Everyone here has extended knowledge and skills in one field or another whether it's professional and/or recreational because everyone has something that they love to do personally and/or professionally; for example: whether it's maintaining a simple home garden to being an international environmentalist that knowledge is beneficial because just maybe they could tell us what type of leaves are in the “leaf-like pattern” and they can symbolize something.
Anyways, I don't believe that anyone actually has to have expert knowledge for this hoax to be proven to be fake successfully and I don’t believe that anyone should have to alter their life and make time to pick up an extra types or work just to decipher this hoax. However, as I stated above if we take the knowledge that we do have and share it with others on this site and in turn, if you are unsure about something, question someone that seems to know this lesson will be more effective.
Personally, I do not consider myself to be that great at photoshop; I can do things however that would be considered a little more advanced than just amateur but I’m not an expert because photoshop has dozens and dozens of ways to manipulate a image/photo and I only know and use what is beneficial and interests me. Since you don’t have much time to research things for yourself my advice to you would be just question others regarding the things that you are unsure about and pick their brains… that’s pretty much how I learned photoshop and the how videos on youtube :) that way it can save you tons of time and you still educate yourself in the process.
Much love xoxo
-
The conclusion you propose, that the odds are extremely rare for the pattern to resemle MJ's face, is contradicting the theory that humans can identify other people's faces using minimum characteristics. This ability has been a strong asset in human evolution, because humans could and still can identify other people , whether allies or enemies, due to their memory. This means that minimum characteristics can lead to any combination possible, several millions actually, and that difference is made only through memory. For example, many times we see from a distance someone on the road and believe that he/she is a familiar person and then we realise that he/she is just a stranger. Saying that this pattern resembles MJ's pictures is a selective identification using our memory data for MJ. This pattern can be anything, from a wolf with ears to a monster with horns according to our own memory and imagination.
I think we have a misunderstanding... what I am trying to say is what are the odds that I take a picture of you standing outside in the park and somewhere in the background within the clouds or the tree leaves or any part of the picture there is an image of your face. :? :)
-
[youtube:a9q13c0c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiFT4BDR0iA&feature=relmfu[/youtube:a9q13c0c]
Here is what I call a subliminal clue pertaining to FBI involvement. Marlon is wearing a FBI hat. Randy is wearing the other subliminal clue, the fedora hat. The similar kind of hat many people have seen on the unknown guy at the funeral and memorial. lol ;)
[youtube:a9q13c0c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qlnGWwU7_8[/youtube:a9q13c0c]
mjsmyheart, thank you for your fresh input into this TS brain-teaser. I liked what you wrote. You seem to be a strong logic based thinker, which is good for this. You put quite a bit of confidence in the face in the leaves being deliberate, whereas I took them as random, since people have been seeing faces in lots of other places. I agree the FBI agents are probably professionally paramedics as well. Now if only we had an actual FBI agent who would become a member here and post his perspective.
Well TS did mention they do randomly check on this site so let's just hope and pray we get that lucky that they would respond; if not maybe TS can guide us in that direction. But I totally agree with you, if a actual FBI agent would post on here that would be AWESOME! :!: !
@mjsmyheart,
Who is they that your referring to? Exactly when did TS mention this?
mjsmyheart wrote:
As far as the FBI, I'm gonna try to keep it breif because I've noticed that once I start writing on this thread my thoughts get ahead of me and by the time I'm done I've written a novel. lol To be honest, I never really thought about the FBI actually being involved until I read it on this thread, but now that I consider it the FBI involvement would explain soooo much. Now, I haven't done too much reseach on this theory to build a strong case but what I believe is that the paramedics are actually FBI agents that really work as paramedics. What I mean by that, is that when the FBI is working on a mission I would assume they would have their own trained paramedics because of the nature of their cases; I don't think a regular paramedic would have the same advanced training that I assume the FBI paramedics would because the FBI are trained for some of the worst type of situations.
Additional proof they are not FBI: The paramedics that showed up at Michael's house on 6/25/2009 are shown to be REAL firemen/paramedic employees still working for Fire Station 71 by the picture(s) taken on 6/13/2010 (at the pancake breakfast fund raiser) of their roster list of who is working on what shift. From page 35 see below.
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=317143#p317143 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=317143#p317143)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12439)
The white fireman/paramedic pouring the pancake batter is the same one in the Hollywood.tv video helping the ambulance back out of the driveway. He is also shown putting the orange cones on the ground. So clearly he is a REAL fireman/paramedic. Not FBI. 8-)
[youtube:a9q13c0c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuXRaJFdmKU[/youtube:a9q13c0c]
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12438)
The guy circled in this picture is also seen in the Hollywood.tv video close to the end. He is walking towards and up into the driveway at the 1:45 mark when the white truck is driving by. He clearly is a REAL fireman/paramedic. I believe these two guys came to Michael's house in the fire truck and were not the ones that drove the ambulance to the hospital (pictured in the hospital entrance wheeling the gurney in). 8-)
(http://newsone.com/files/2011/01/ambulance-arrives-at-hospital-with-michael-jackson.jpg)
Obviously they can't guide the ambulance out the driveway, set orange cones on the ground and also be seen walking up the driveway after the ambulance has been shown driving backwards and away down the street at the same time these guys are doing their job. All of the above is my opinion of course but common sense and eyesight should be enough to realize the men I spoke about are in the pictures and video excluding the hospital entrance picture. ;)
Peace
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=317143#p317161 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=317143#p317161)
Debunking the theory of the paramedics who arrived at Michael's house on 6/25/2009 being FBI. Only 1 key person is needed at Fire station 71. That is the fire captain. 8-)
[youtube:a9q13c0c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggewNtwvHJ4[/youtube:a9q13c0c]
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12440) Paramedic Blount A shift. Paramedic Senneff C shift BOTH REAL. NOT FBI. ;)
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2 ... spita.html (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/01/michael-jackson-hearing-paparazzi-fans-hampered-paramedics-from-getting-stricken-pop-star-to-hospita.html)
Michael Jackson hearing: Paparazzi, fans hampered paramedics from getting stricken pop star to hospital
January 6, 2011 | 10:58 am
A paramedic who tried in vain to save Michael Jackson’s life testified Thursday that an unruly crowd of paparazzi and tourists outside the pop star’s home hampered efforts to get to the hospital recalled Los Angeles City Fire Department paramedic Richard “It’s a circus out there. It’s unbelievable,” Richard Senneff of the scene outside Jackson’s Holmby Hills mansion June 25, 2009.
The witness testified on the second day of testimony at a hearing to determine whether there is enough evidence to try Dr. Conrad Murray for involuntary manslaughter.
Senneff said that the ambulance driver had trouble navigating away from the residence because of a throng that included passengers of a tour bus and photographers with “big cameras, little cameras, video cameras, still cameras.”
At one point, a man with a video camera ran alongside the ambulance holding a camera with a large lens against the window. “It just seemed wrong,” he said. Under questioning by a defense lawyer, Senneff said Murray wanted to put a “central line” to restart Jackson’s heart, but that medics did not have equipment or training to do so.
He said the singer did not respond to two rounds of drugs to revive him and hospital officials told him over the radio to “call” Jackson’s death, but that neither he nor Murray wanted to do so. “I said, 'Be advised, this is a very high-profile VIP,' ” Senneff said.
The 50-year-old singer was pronounced dead at UCLA Medical Center. Senneff said rescue workers had gone “above and beyond” the call of duty in the field not because Jackson was a celebrity, but “because it was someone’s son.” Katherine Jackson, the singer’s mother, listened intently in the courtroom gallery. Judge Michael Pastor also heard from a second paramedic who, like Senneff, said that Murray initially claimed he had not given his patient any medication.
Martin Blount said the denial struck him as odd because he saw a hypodermic needle and three bottles of lidocaine in the room. Murray, he said, “scooped up” the bottles and placed them in a bag before they left for the hospital. “Did you ever see those bottles again,” Deputy Dist. Atty. David Walgren asked. “No, sir,” Blount replied. Murray, 57, has pleaded not guilty.
Prosecutors accuse Murray of an “extreme deviation” from the standard of medical care by, among other things, giving Jackson the surgical anesthetic propofol to treat insomnia.
I am posting this article to disprove the hoax regarding the theory/reason why the ambulance drove backwards and slowly. Paramedic Senneff gives the reason for that. Blame it on the fans and paps why they couldn't save Michael, shifting blame onto fans and paps will supposedly relieve him from any harm/blame to the King of Pop. 8-) ;) He also gives credibility to Ben's pic by saying "At one point, a man with a video camera ran alongside the ambulance holding a camera with a large lens against the window."
I am also posting some questions that can be either pro hoax or against depending how the questions are answered.
Q-What would be considered going above and beyond the call of duty?
Q-Why didn't he (Senneff) want to call the time of death either even though the hospital told him to do so?
Q-How many paramedics were actually in that ambulance?
According to Senneff's testimony there was a driver, himself, and Blount. So that is 3 but only two testified?[/color]
Another point I want to add to this is that IF Michael/the patient was already DOA when the paramedics got to the house and they tried to do CPR there for a good amount of time; the ambulance would not need to be in a hurry when leaving because the patient is already gone.
To the airport! lol
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309040#p309040 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309040#p309040)
I was playing non-believer when I originally posted the article in the TIAI 2/26 thread.
From page 37 and page 38 below. No one has shown proof to challenge my posts/theories. I have only seen opinions and that is not solid proof that would hold up in court. 8-)
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=900#p317550 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=900#p317550)
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=925#p317625 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=925#p317625)
-
OK, the paramedics are not from FBI, but this doesn't mean FBI is not involved. The paramedics just aren't allowed to speack about it.
And I really think it's about time TS to come back. Because if TS stays away much longer we might think something very bad happened to him OR that his absence is a diversion.
-
[youtube:3qk6edll]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiFT4BDR0iA&feature=relmfu[/youtube:3qk6edll]
Here is what I call a subliminal clue pertaining to FBI involvement. Marlon is wearing a FBI hat. Randy is wearing the other subliminal clue, the fedora hat. The similar kind of hat many people have seen on the unknown guy at the funeral and memorial. lol ;)
[youtube:3qk6edll]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qlnGWwU7_8[/youtube:3qk6edll]
mjsmyheart, thank you for your fresh input into this TS brain-teaser. I liked what you wrote. You seem to be a strong logic based thinker, which is good for this. You put quite a bit of confidence in the face in the leaves being deliberate, whereas I took them as random, since people have been seeing faces in lots of other places. I agree the FBI agents are probably professionally paramedics as well. Now if only we had an actual FBI agent who would become a member here and post his perspective.
Well TS did mention they do randomly check on this site so let's just hope and pray we get that lucky that they would respond; if not maybe TS can guide us in that direction. But I totally agree with you, if a actual FBI agent would post on here that would be AWESOME! :!: !
@mjsmyheart,
Who is they that your referring to? Exactly when did TS mention this?
@Im_convincedmjalive
I was refering to the FBI, but I am sorry to say that I can't find the actually post right now. I do believe it was on this thread though or on the last on TS comments posted so I apologize if gave any one false hope but I swear I did read that somewhere... However if and/or when I find it I will post it one here I just might need more time to go over it again or maybe TS can point it out.
mjsmyheart wrote:
As far as the FBI, I'm gonna try to keep it breif because I've noticed that once I start writing on this thread my thoughts get ahead of me and by the time I'm done I've written a novel. lol To be honest, I never really thought about the FBI actually being involved until I read it on this thread, but now that I consider it the FBI involvement would explain soooo much. Now, I haven't done too much reseach on this theory to build a strong case but what I believe is that the paramedics are actually FBI agents that really work as paramedics. What I mean by that, is that when the FBI is working on a mission I would assume they would have their own trained paramedics because of the nature of their cases; I don't think a regular paramedic would have the same advanced training that I assume the FBI paramedics would because the FBI are trained for some of the worst type of situations.
Additional proof they are not FBI: The paramedics that showed up at Michael's house on 6/25/2009 are shown to be REAL firemen/paramedic employees still working for Fire Station 71 by the picture(s) taken on 6/13/2010 (at the pancake breakfast fund raiser) of their roster list of who is working on what shift. From page 35 see below.
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=317143#p317143 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=317143#p317143)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12439)
The white fireman/paramedic pouring the pancake batter is the same one in the Hollywood.tv video helping the ambulance back out of the driveway. He is also shown putting the orange cones on the ground. So clearly he is a REAL fireman/paramedic. Not FBI. 8-)
[youtube:3qk6edll]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuXRaJFdmKU[/youtube:3qk6edll]
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12438)
The guy circled in this picture is also seen in the Hollywood.tv video close to the end. He is walking towards and up into the driveway at the 1:45 mark when the white truck is driving by. He clearly is a REAL fireman/paramedic. I believe these two guys came to Michael's house in the fire truck and were not the ones that drove the ambulance to the hospital (pictured in the hospital entrance wheeling the gurney in). 8-)
(http://newsone.com/files/2011/01/ambulance-arrives-at-hospital-with-michael-jackson.jpg)
Obviously they can't guide the ambulance out the driveway, set orange cones on the ground and also be seen walking up the driveway after the ambulance has been shown driving backwards and away down the street at the same time these guys are doing their job. All of the above is my opinion of course but common sense and eyesight should be enough to realize the men I spoke about are in the pictures and video excluding the hospital entrance picture. ;)
Peace
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=317143#p317161 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=317143#p317161)
Debunking the theory of the paramedics who arrived at Michael's house on 6/25/2009 being FBI. Only 1 key person is needed at Fire station 71. That is the fire captain. 8-)
[youtube:3qk6edll]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggewNtwvHJ4[/youtube:3qk6edll]
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12440) Paramedic Blount A shift. Paramedic Senneff C shift BOTH REAL. NOT FBI. ;)
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2 ... spita.html (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/01/michael-jackson-hearing-paparazzi-fans-hampered-paramedics-from-getting-stricken-pop-star-to-hospita.html)
Michael Jackson hearing: Paparazzi, fans hampered paramedics from getting stricken pop star to hospital
January 6, 2011 | 10:58 am
A paramedic who tried in vain to save Michael Jackson’s life testified Thursday that an unruly crowd of paparazzi and tourists outside the pop star’s home hampered efforts to get to the hospital recalled Los Angeles City Fire Department paramedic Richard “It’s a circus out there. It’s unbelievable,” Richard Senneff of the scene outside Jackson’s Holmby Hills mansion June 25, 2009.
The witness testified on the second day of testimony at a hearing to determine whether there is enough evidence to try Dr. Conrad Murray for involuntary manslaughter.
Senneff said that the ambulance driver had trouble navigating away from the residence because of a throng that included passengers of a tour bus and photographers with “big cameras, little cameras, video cameras, still cameras.”
At one point, a man with a video camera ran alongside the ambulance holding a camera with a large lens against the window. “It just seemed wrong,” he said. Under questioning by a defense lawyer, Senneff said Murray wanted to put a “central line” to restart Jackson’s heart, but that medics did not have equipment or training to do so.
He said the singer did not respond to two rounds of drugs to revive him and hospital officials told him over the radio to “call” Jackson’s death, but that neither he nor Murray wanted to do so. “I said, 'Be advised, this is a very high-profile VIP,' ” Senneff said.
The 50-year-old singer was pronounced dead at UCLA Medical Center. Senneff said rescue workers had gone “above and beyond” the call of duty in the field not because Jackson was a celebrity, but “because it was someone’s son.” Katherine Jackson, the singer’s mother, listened intently in the courtroom gallery. Judge Michael Pastor also heard from a second paramedic who, like Senneff, said that Murray initially claimed he had not given his patient any medication.
Martin Blount said the denial struck him as odd because he saw a hypodermic needle and three bottles of lidocaine in the room. Murray, he said, “scooped up” the bottles and placed them in a bag before they left for the hospital. “Did you ever see those bottles again,” Deputy Dist. Atty. David Walgren asked. “No, sir,” Blount replied. Murray, 57, has pleaded not guilty.
Prosecutors accuse Murray of an “extreme deviation” from the standard of medical care by, among other things, giving Jackson the surgical anesthetic propofol to treat insomnia.
I am posting this article to disprove the hoax regarding the theory/reason why the ambulance drove backwards and slowly. Paramedic Senneff gives the reason for that. Blame it on the fans and paps why they couldn't save Michael, shifting blame onto fans and paps will supposedly relieve him from any harm/blame to the King of Pop. 8-) ;) He also gives credibility to Ben's pic by saying "At one point, a man with a video camera ran alongside the ambulance holding a camera with a large lens against the window."
I am also posting some questions that can be either pro hoax or against depending how the questions are answered.
Q-What would be considered going above and beyond the call of duty?
Q-Why didn't he (Senneff) want to call the time of death either even though the hospital told him to do so?
Q-How many paramedics were actually in that ambulance?
According to Senneff's testimony there was a driver, himself, and Blount. So that is 3 but only two testified?[/color]
Another point I want to add to this is that IF Michael/the patient was already DOA when the paramedics got to the house and they tried to do CPR there for a good amount of time; the ambulance would not need to be in a hurry when leaving because the patient is already gone.
To the airport! lol
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309040#p309040 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309040#p309040)
I was playing non-believer when I originally posted the article in the TIAI 2/26 thread.
From page 37 and page 38 below. No one has shown proof to challenge my posts/theories. I have only seen opinions and that is not solid proof that would hold up in court. 8-)
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=900#p317550 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=900#p317550)
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=925#p317625 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=925#p317625)[/quote]
Unfortunately, I don’t believe the evidence that you have provided proves that they are not FBI agents, it only proves that they are potentially real paramedics vs. being actors. Just because there are pictures taken of them at a pancake breakfast fundraiser doesn’t disqualify them being FBI agents that work as paramedics either. The picture could just be another tactic for those of us that are investigating to try to deter us so that we think that- since they are at a function with other paramedics they must really work for LAFD. With that theory, I would also have to assume that Murray’s trail is 100% real because it takes place in a real court.
Thanks to TMZ we at least know that SWAT is involved; now with these higher government agencies like the FBI and SWAT every detail is carefully planned out down to the tiniest of details just like how Michael planned everything down to the minute. In order to make sure their mission is completed successfully you have to assume (unless you work for one of these agencies and know otherwise) that it takes a great deal of time to work out any bumps in the road possibly years just like many assume MJ has been working on this hoax for over decade. Who’s to say that the FBI didn’t plant their men in the LAFD years ago to work undercover? I also believe that this theory would still make it so that they would continue working there months after the alleged death; that way when the hoax did come into play people wouldn’t question the paramedics that just came and went involved in MJ's death... that would be very suspicious!
Something I had came across when I was looking for the comment I thought I had saw regarding the FBI watching this site was the following posted by TS comments FRI MAR 18,2011 @ 4:07pm (page 21):
First of all, even under normal operations, the seat is there for the purpose of a paramedic to sit in it--and work with a patient on the stretcher, at least sometimes. Therefore, where would the legs of the paramedic go under normal operations, when he is working with a patient on the stretcher?
The only reason that I bring this up is because the comment implies that something wasn’t normal about that situation/operation. If it was just the regular paramedics responding to an alleged 911 call then wouldn’t that be considered a normal operation? Maybe I’m missing something regarding TS’ comment and am just confused.
Another thing is that I don’t believe that the real paramedics were even dispatched that day to Michael’s house it was more than likely FBI/SWAT. This would explain the many versions of the 911 call released for one and also why Ben was the only pap outside. Now, like I said in a previous post I haven’t spent much time researching and developing a solid theory regarding the FBI’s involvement because I have a lot to do in my own life and also I wanted to do things accordingly and let TS lead the way; but everything else aside... I’ve noticed several people mention how people were always outside around Michael’s house; so again, what are the odds that someone called 911 from MJ’s house (the most famous entertainer in the world) requesting dispatch service and Ben (who is very well acquainted with Michael) and his team are the ONLY papps outside to catch the footage. I understand that Farrah had passed away earlier that morning but with the papps they only care about the newest thing in news so by that time (and I feel bad for saying this, but with ALL DUE RESPECT) Farrah then became old news because their job is to get the most recent news available. If a call was actually placed to 911, it is a farfetched idea for me to believe that with all the papps in LA alone, Ben would be the only one interested in this story! Besides, maybe I missed it but did Ben ever say how he got word of the situation unfolding at MJ’s house?
Lastly, to further convince me that the 911 call was staged is that most professional papps have thousands of dollars of equipment and NO ONE owns one of those police scanner radios! Seriously, I have one on my Android phone that can tell me what is going on in California from across the country!!! That pretty much puts the icing on the cake for me with this situation (for now at least. :P ) How are these papps getting news breaking stories without it? I guess Ben and his team are the only ones in LA with smartphones! :lol:
I look forward to hearing what you think about my thoughts, but my theory also fits into other aspects of this hoax including the media coverage, and the press release at the hosptial just to name a few.
Much love xoxo
-
OK, the paramedics are not from FBI, but this doesn't mean FBI is not involved. The paramedics just aren't allowed to speack about it.
And I really think it's about time TS to come back. Because if TS stays away much longer we might think something very bad happened to him OR that his absence is a diversion.
GINAFELICIA I just wanted to say to you not to be convinced so easily (because it's going to make you go CRAZY for one ;) .) That’s not to say that I’m right and Im_convincedmjalive is wrong or Im_convincedmjalive is right and I’m wrong. As far as I'm concerned on this site you have to be from another planet to be completely wrong because nobody has the answer other than TS on this site. I would love to know what your theory is however… :)
I do pray that everything is ok with TS but I think it would be nice if everyone could come together and try to agree upon one or two possible theories for when he does come back. Just because TS is unavailable doesn't mean the hoax becomes unavailable. It seems to me that with the exception of a few people, they lose interest as soon as they don't hear from TS for a while which is very unfortunate because a lot can be accomplished without him here all the time. IMO
-
Quote
Another point I want to add to this is that IF Michael/the patient was already DOA when the paramedics got to the house and they tried to do CPR there for a good amount of time; the ambulance would not need to be in a hurry when leaving because the patient is already gone.
Again, I have touched on this before and as I was coding this "frail" little man this week, I could not help but think of this. Dead is Dead and there is a "look" about it. That pic whatever/whoever/photoshop/etc sure as hell didn't get an extended "code" and they sure as weren't dead. I've watched people die, seen them dead in all kinds of various times since death. It's hard to explain unless you have seen and seen alot of it what "dead" looks like. So imo NOT dead. Slow = Show.
-
Slow = Show.
Exactly, amen!
-
This is my comparison video. It shows the difference when lighter and darker shades of light are added. It does alter the pattern on the compartment. Also, I noticed something really weird. Michaels skin colour on his face, does not change that much when I brighten the images, whereas the paramedics arms change alot...I wonder what the reason for this could be !!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fvCOlnsxJ4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fvCOlnsxJ4)
[youtube:25dvgmgq]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fvCOlnsxJ4[/youtube:25dvgmgq]
It makes it seem that it was done in real time (paramedics) except for MJ, unless the reason why MJ's skin colour did not change was because it was a dummy.
Also I think that they are real paramedics...they might not be saying anything because of confidentiality agreements.
-
Quote
Another point I want to add to this is that IF Michael/the patient was already DOA when the paramedics got to the house and they tried to do CPR there for a good amount of time; the ambulance would not need to be in a hurry when leaving because the patient is already gone.
Again, I have touched on this before and as I was coding this "frail" little man this week, I could not help but think of this. Dead is Dead and there is a "look" about it. That pic whatever/whoever/photoshop/etc sure as hell didn't get an extended "code" and they sure as weren't dead. I've watched people die, seen them dead in all kinds of various times since death. It's hard to explain unless you have seen and seen alot of it what "dead" looks like. So imo NOT dead. Slow = Show.
Hi AllInGoodTime,
I wasn't basing my opinion on the fake ambulance pic of MJ; as we all should be able to see that the pic shows MJ looking young and alive. I based my opinion on the article below stating MJ was DOA. I agree that it was for a show but, if I am looking at this situation and I am in the role of non-believer I can come up with a reason for them going slow. ;)
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=317206#p317206 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=317206#p317206)
He said the singer did not respond to two rounds of drugs to revive him and hospital officials told him over the radio to “call” Jackson’s death, but that neither he nor Murray wanted to do so. “I said, 'Be advised, this is a very high-profile VIP,' ” Senneff said.
I thought they didn't recognise Michael Jackson the king of pop.???? But here they state they knew who it was. :? :? :? :?
http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/27/paramedic ... -arrived/3 (http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/27/paramedics-jackson-dead-when-we-arrived/3)
Paramedics: Jackson Dead When We Arrived
7/26/2009 9:30 PM PDT by TMZ Staff
Law enforcement sources tell us when paramedics arrived at Michael Jackson's house he was already dead ... and it took them a while to even realize the victim was the famous singer.
Our sources say when paramedics got to Jackson's home he was flatlined. There was no electrical activity in his heart and Jackson showed no sign of life.
Multiple sources say paramedics wanted to pronounce Jackson dead at the scene but Dr. Conrad Murray insisted that the singer be transported to the hospital. Dr. Murray -- as a higher medical authority than the EMTs -- had the power to overrule them.
Paramedics didn't realize for nearly 10 minutes the victim was Michael Jackson. As one emergency worker put it: "It just looked like a frail, old, sickly man."
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2009/07/27/0625_michael_jackson_ex-1.jpg)
Huh? What do you mean I looked like a frail old man? ;)
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=314346#p314238 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=314346#p314238)
[youtube:exz4wwij]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oftybkF__uc[/youtube:exz4wwij]
Uploaded by PoliticsNewsPolitics on Jun 26, 2009
The L.A. County Fire Department released the tape of the 911 call made when Michael Jackson went into cardiac arrest.
Im_convincedmjalive wrote:
The reason I believe the 911 dispatcher hung up sooner than one might expect is because Murray was on the scene and the 911 dispatcher stated he (Murray) has a higher authority than him. If Murray (Michael's personal physician) wasn't there than it would make sense for the 911 dispatcher to stay on the line and guide Alberto to do CPR.
-
@Im_convincedmjalive
I was refering to the FBI, but I am sorry to say that I can't find the actually post right now. I do believe it was on this thread though or on the last on TS comments posted so I apologize if gave any one false hope but I swear I did read that somewhere... However if and/or when I find it I will post it one here I just might need more time to go over it again or maybe TS can point it out.
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=314975#p314975 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=314975#p314975)
Im_convincedmjalive wrote:
See below on my thoughts regarding how LAFD is involved with the FBI. I don't think they are directly involved. I say there is 2 middle men.
Ok I didn't realize you were gonna go there TS. ;) I was trying to just stay on the subject of the paramedics but now that you opened up the direction of this to go towards the FBI being involved I am re-posting some info I have known about for a while now. I didn't want to get to ahead of the game, lol ...
[/color]
I brought the FBI in at this point for a few reasons, one of which was that people in this thread were already discussing possible government involvement. Also, I intentionally posted the beginning of this thread at 3:33, as a clue about the 333 pages of FBI files--intending to bring the FBI in at some point in this thread.
The biggest reason I brought the FBI in at this point, though, is something that seems to have gotten lost or set aside in all the discussion of the FBI and other things. So let's see if we can get back on track. If the FBI is involved: would they hire actors and rent an ambulance, or would they cooperate with the real LAFD paramedics and use the actual #71 ambulance from Bel Air?
I do not think the FBI would hire actors and rent an ambulance because Michael took care of that part. I believe Michael staged the ambulance picture on a different day using actors dressed like paramedics in a different ambulance other than #71 but it was similiar enough to make the picture that we saw more legit. I also think the staged picture was done in a closed set, not at Carolwood.
I believe the FBI would cooperate with the real LAFD and visa versa. The real LAFD would cooperate with Michael and the FBI through one key person in the upper level and on a need to know basis. I believe the key person in LAFD is the Captian and under his direction the real paramedics in the real ambulance #71 from Bel Air responded and did their job like good employees. No questions asked and they did not need to know anything other than do your job.
The below 911 call was released by LAFD. I am adding that to the evidence pile for my theories and opinions. I also added a different version of the 911 call for comparison and contradiction in the way the call was answered by the dispatcher.
The 2nd video LAFD Capt. recalls Michael Jackson (MJ) events on June 25, 2009 with the 911 call has something interesting in it. The dispatcher answers the call by sayin Fire Paramedic 33... 8-)
[youtube:2p3a00e0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oftybkF__uc[/youtube:2p3a00e0]
Uploaded by PoliticsNewsPolitics on Jun 26, 2009
The L.A. County Fire Department released the tape of the 911 call made when Michael Jackson went into cardiac arrest.
[youtube:2p3a00e0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgD4COfhrLU&feature=related[/youtube:2p3a00e0]
I am adding this video also as evidence. I believe that this show had clues in it also. The fire captain is very suspect in my book. He seems to be acting. I think he is another key person. He would be the some of the paramedics in on it.
LAFD Capt. recalls Michael Jackson (MJ) events on June 25, 2009
[youtube:2p3a00e0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggewNtwvHJ4&feature=related[/youtube:2p3a00e0]
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309781#p309781 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309781#p309781)
In this video the Captain is so precise on the time the 911 call was made. He even says it down to the seconds, lol
Below is some of the clue information I have used to come to my opinions and theories on this subject. ;)
TS wrote:
Now back to the “MJ Conspiracy” book and video. Quite obviously, there was a conspiracy against MJ, even though it wasn’t a murder conspiracy. And the testimony from Aphrodite shows that people involved in a conspiracy may not even know it themselves (only the upper levels understand). And even after she recognized the conspiracy, it seems that she only saw media and money as the source of the conspiracy—not the NWO powers controlling the media.
viewtopic.php?f=72&t=7194&start=0 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=7194&start=0)
TS wrote:
MJ has been planning this hoax for many years; and he had the time and influence to get a few key people in the right positions to pull it off—and yes, even government agencies still have some good people in them. Look at history: many times people in high positions have stood up against the corruption in their own system (government, or church, etc).
TS wrote:
But MJ did not involve large quantities of people. In fact, the “three-way theory” is basically correct http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpb ... 2&start=0; (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=5382&start=0;) this theory states that the fewer people “in on it”, the better (although more than three are actually involved, and the “three-way theory” does allow for more than three).
Also, as far as possible, legal loopholes were used. Nevertheless, with a hoax of this magnitude and importance: whether the line was ever crossed, between being inside or outside of legal loopholes, is a question that probably doesn’t even need to be answered.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
4-37. Hints on the “How’s” of the Hoax
In this update, I have gone into great detail about the timing of the hoax (as well as a few other aspects). Previously, I have gone into great detail about the reasons for the hoax http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpb ... 0&sr=posts (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/search.php?author_id=1440&sr=posts). That leaves only one frontier remaining: how did MJ succeed in pulling off this massive hoax?
I’m not going to go into great detail on that now, it would be very long—and this update is already the longest update by far. But I will give some hints, to help you go in the right direction if you want to investigate it further.
For starters, maybe it is time to create a sub-forum for Coherent Theories. By this, I mean theories that start putting all the pieces together, fitting into one bigger picture. But we can’t have MJ hopping on a plane at LAX, escaping out of a tunnel in the basement of UCLA, and riding alive in the helicopter to the coroner’s office, as well as in the other helicopter—all at the same time. This would not qualify as a coherent theory.
I think we already have a huge clue from Jermaine, telling us that MJ went to the “airport”—NOT the hospital. And in fact, it would’ve been very risky and unnecessary for him to ride alive in the ambulance to UCLA, and then go into UCLA where he could be easily recognized (and hard to play dead), and then try to escape somehow. What would be the point?
Based on the planned timing of the hoax, we should now be able to see very plainly that the living MJ body double theory doesn’t work. There is no chance that a living double just happened to die on the right year, the right day, and the right hour.
This leaves us with three possibilities. There was no body at all, which would require quite a few people to be “in on it”. There was a dummy, not a real human; this reduces the number of people “in on it”, and also makes it easy to duplicate the looks of MJ (but paramedics would need to be “in on it”, because they would not be fooled by a dummy). Or there was a real human corpse, which had recently died. In fact, at different times and places, there could’ve been more than one corpse and/or dummy used as needed.
TS wrote:
4-38. Only a Few Would Need to Be “In On It”
Let me also clue you in on a few tricks, so that only a relatively few people would need to be “in on it”. The endlessly discussed helicopter ride to the coroner: it could’ve had a living and/or a dead body in it, but not MJ; and yet none of the people in the copter, or working that situation, would’ve had any clue that MJ was alive.
All you would need to do is create a diversion for the media and public: the helicopter and all would be a big show for the media, while they transport the (supposedly) “real” MJ’s body in an unmarked vehicle—this would keep MJ’s body safer. And all the people “involved” in that diversion operation would play right along, and obey without question like good little boys and girls, thinking all the while that MJ’s dead body was being transported in some unmarked vehicle (and not even questioning whether or not MJ was actually dead). And even if they suspected later that MJ is alive, how would they know? They would not know, they would just suspect it (like hoax believers).
The fact that it’s a criminal case is another good alibi for secrecy and cover-up; this way, nobody thinks twice when they’re told not to talk about what they did or did not see at UCLA on June 25 (or other times and places).
[youtube:2p3a00e0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMB5gfcVChg[/youtube:2p3a00e0]
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053)
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185#p311394 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185#p311394)
In regards to the question why the paramedic drove slowly and backwards, my opinion is (see below):
IF Michael/the patient was already DOA when the paramedics got to the house and they tried to do CPR there for a good amount of time; the ambulance would not need to be in a hurry when leaving because the patient is already gone.
To the airport! lol
Also that was the diversion tactic for the media and public while I believe Michael slipped out a back gate and went to the AIRPORT.
Unfortunately, I don’t believe the evidence that you have provided proves that they are not FBI agents, it only proves that they are potentially real paramedics vs. being actors. Just because there are pictures taken of them at a pancake breakfast fundraiser doesn’t disqualify them being FBI agents that work as paramedics either. The picture could just be another tactic for those of us that are investigating to try to deter us so that we think that- since they are at a function with other paramedics they must really work for LAFD. With that theory, I would also have to assume that Murray’s trail is 100% real because it takes place in a real court.
Thanks to TMZ we at least know that SWAT is involved; now with these higher government agencies like the FBI and SWAT every detail is carefully planned out down to the tiniest of details just like how Michael planned everything down to the minute. In order to make sure their mission is completed successfully you have to assume (unless you work for one of these agencies and know otherwise) that it takes a great deal of time to work out any bumps in the road possibly years just like many assume MJ has been working on this hoax for over decade. Who’s to say that the FBI didn’t plant their men in the LAFD years ago to work undercover? I also believe that this theory would still make it so that they would continue working there months after the alleged death; that way when the hoax did come into play people wouldn’t question the paramedics that just came and went involved in MJ's death... that would be very suspicious!
Something I had came across when I was looking for the comment I thought I had saw regarding the FBI watching this site was the following posted by TS comments FRI MAR 18,2011 @ 4:07pm (page 21):
First of all, even under normal operations, the seat is there for the purpose of a paramedic to sit in it--and work with a patient on the stretcher, at least sometimes. Therefore, where would the legs of the paramedic go under normal operations, when he is working with a patient on the stretcher?
The only reason that I bring this up is because the comment implies that something wasn’t normal about that situation/operation. If it was just the regular paramedics responding to an alleged 911 call then wouldn’t that be considered a normal operation? Maybe I’m missing something regarding TS’ comment and am just confused.
Another thing is that I don’t believe that the real paramedics were even dispatched that day to Michael’s house it was more than likely FBI/SWAT. This would explain the many versions of the 911 call released for one and also why Ben was the only pap outside. Now, like I said in a previous post I haven’t spent much time researching and developing a solid theory regarding the FBI’s involvement because I have a lot to do in my own life and also I wanted to do things accordingly and let TS lead the way; but everything else aside... I’ve noticed several people mention how people were always outside around Michael’s house; so again, what are the odds that someone called 911 from MJ’s house (the most famous entertainer in the world) requesting dispatch service and Ben (who is very well acquainted with Michael) and his team are the ONLY papps outside to catch the footage. I understand that Farrah had passed away earlier that morning but with the papps they only care about the newest thing in news so by that time (and I feel bad for saying this, but with ALL DUE RESPECT) Farrah then became old news because their job is to get the most recent news available. If a call was actually placed to 911, it is a farfetched idea for me to believe that with all the papps in LA alone, Ben would be the only one interested in this story! Besides, maybe I missed it but did Ben ever say how he got word of the situation unfolding at MJ’s house?
Lastly, to further convince me that the 911 call was staged is that most professional papps have thousands of dollars of equipment and NO ONE owns one of those police scanner radios! Seriously, I have one on my Android phone that can tell me what is going on in California from across the country!!! That pretty much puts the icing on the cake for me with this situation (for now at least. :P ) How are these papps getting news breaking stories without it? I guess Ben and his team are the only ones in LA with smartphones! :lol:
I look forward to hearing what you think about my thoughts, but my theory also fits into other aspects of this hoax including the media coverage, and the press release at the hosptial just to name a few.
Much love xoxo
I have always believed FBI is involved but not the way you are stating your opinion. That is again what I think is NOT good solid evidence, it is just your opinion. For the 411 on Ben and the how and why he was the pap there; you will have to go to the thread TIAI 2/26 where it is dicussed.
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=314388#p314388 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=314388#p314388)
"TS_comments" wrote:
Without quoting anyone specific, I will give my answers here to things that have been asked or stated by several hoax members about the FBI.
First, I am not the one to initiate FBI or government involvement. This is a theory that has been around pretty much from the beginning. Souza has had the FBI on the home page for a long time: "If he has the FBI on his side, a lot can be done." {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/recap_english.php}.
I agree.
Second, I never said that everyone in the entire FBI organization is involved. I have always said MJ was planning this for years, and got a few key people in a few key positions to cooperate with him. Notice that this is possible with the structure of the FBI: "The article went on to also blame the FBI's decentralized structure which prevented effective communication and cooperation between different FBI offices. The article also claimed that the FBI has still not evolved into an effective counterterrorism or counterintelligence agency, due in large part to deeply ingrained cultural resistance to change within the FBI." {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fbi}.
I agree.
Third, as I have said a few times already in this thread: the Elvis connection answers much of these objections--including the idea that there would be 100% secrecy, and no clues. Elvis had government help, that is unquestionably established not only from Linda's website--but just about anyone else who talks about the Elvis case. Also, originally Elvis had only six people in on it--and they were not all government agents. Therefore, all the people in all the government agencies were not in on it.
I agree. I have read her website and I also know that he has wrote that he found people from different states that he trusted who were loyal.
http://lindahoodsigmontruth.com/page33 (http://lindahoodsigmontruth.com/page33)
(http://tiptopwebsite.com/photos4/lindahoodsigmoncom/Jessetypedintroductiontothebook.jpg)
Fourth, if the FBI is involved, why would TS expose this publicly on the internet? Again, look at the Elvis case. Why does Linda's website publicly expose the fact that government agents helped Elvis in the past and recently? Is Linda's website putting anyone in danger? No. Why not? Because the general public has never heard of her website; and of the few who do see it, many still don't believe it. Same for this MJ hoax website. It is not getting millions of hits a day (not yet, anyway :shock: ). Few are watching, most of which are merely forum members here; and even some of those don't believe what I am saying about the FBI.
I agree. People don't want to see the truth even if it is slapping them in the face. Denial is their best friend and also it helps to protect him and Linda at the same time. Doubters make this work. This same theory also protects MJ.
Fifth, there is more than one way to skin a cat. So let's look at it from the other side of the coin. If the FBI did not help out, then how could the Bel Air station not know something is fishy? Would they sit by quietly, and say nothing, while MJ hired actors and rented an ambulance to look just like the LAFD #71 ambulance? And why would the LAFD Captain say {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggewNtwvHJ4}: "On June 25, 2009, LAFD responded ... our paramedic ..."--if indeed the LAFD did NOT respond, and it was merely actors in a rented ambulance?
One of my favorite lines! I already said my theory regarding the Fire Captian.
Do you think professionals could ALL be bought out for money? And when the truth came out, wouldn't there be serious consequences for all of them? Do you think they would not be charged with abuse of public office--ESPECIALLY if they got paid for it? Can they get out of it all, by saying that it was all just for a movie--and this or that legal loophole squeaks them by? Did you know that legal loopholes do not prevent people from getting charged with a crime? Did you know that loopholes may not even prevent someone from being convicted of a crime? Different people interpret the law differently; that is why there are lawyers and judges and juries.
:| No comment needed here.
However, if key people in the FBI are cooperating with LAFD and MJ: then when the truth comes out, all they have to do is show success in catching some public corruption through this process--and all is well that ends well. After all, once again, that is their "top priority among criminal investigations" {http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption}.
I agree.
Finally: is this hoax a prank, or a Thriller II reality movie, or an ARG, or a sting operation, or a Vendetta, or an NWO/EOW warning, or a wake-up call to the gullible public (don't believe everything in the media), etc--which is it? And the answer is: all of the above! It is something that people have never seen before, at least not the combination of these things and on this scale.
I agree 100% on this. Reality TV is the thing to do now a days. I agree this has never been done on this scale with the topics being presented.
Thanks for your patience and answers TS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_television (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_television)
Reality television is a genre of television programming that presents purportedly unscripted dramatic or humorous situations, documents actual events, and usually features ordinary people instead of professional actors, sometimes in a contest or other situation where a prize is awarded.The genre has existed in some form or another since the early years of television, began in earnest as a television formula in the 1990s, and exploded as a global phenomenon around 1999-2000, via series such as Big Brother and Survivor. Programs in the reality television genre are commonly called reality shows and often are produced in series. Documentaries and nonfictional programming such as news and sports shows are usually not classified as reality shows.
The genre covers a wide range of programming formats, from game or quiz shows which resemble the frantic, often demeaning shows produced in Japan in the 1980s and 1990s (such as Gaki no tsukai), to surveillance- or voyeurism-focused productions such as Big Brother.
Reality television frequently portrays a modified and highly influenced form of reality, utilizing sensationalism to attract viewers and so to generate advertising profits. Participants are often placed in exotic locations or abnormal situations, and are sometimes coached to act in specific scripted ways by off-screen "story editors" or "segment producers," with the portrayal of events and speech manipulated and contrived to create an illusion of reality through editing and other post-production techniques.
-
mjsmyheart, I would like answer a few of your questions from your last post. As an RN I have many years of experience in trama, acute and long-term care. I however, DO NOT claim to know everything as I am not that naive. But I do know more that most so here is how I see it.
Q-What would be considered going above and beyond the call of duty?
Well, that would be extraordinary attempts to revive someone. Above and beyond normal protocol. But as with many things in life the rich/famous/vip folks get all the perks. Joe Blow would not get extensive effort esp if it seemed that Joe was "long gone". With a "doctor" present I could see extra effort put in to revive MJ than a normal "call" without one present. But, The article says.....
"He said the singer did not respond to two rounds of drugs to revive him "
Wow! Two whole rounds! Sounds like MJ got the food stamp teatment and not the extra special vip kind. IF cause of death WAS true, then MJ would have been bradycardic. This is a very slow heartrate. Perhaps no beat was present. Propofol slows all body functions down. Breathing , heartrate, etc. In the many "codes" I have done, in this state and ekg a MINIMUM of 2 drugs would be used in first 5 mins. Dopamine, Atropine, and EPI are commonly used to "kickstart" the heart and increase rate. And if one does not work we try another and then another. So that's 3 by my count if "every" effort was made to revive MJ. SO TWO?!? I call BS.
Q-Why didn't he (Senneff) want to call the time of death either even though the hospital told him to do so?
Simple, A para may only NOTE time of death not call it. Only a doctor or RN or PA when a doctor is not present may call death. He at this point he is not in charge of this call. A "doctor" is present and he overules all. Given the amount of time spent trying to revive MJ, adminstering 2 round of drugs is baffling. Unless....more time was needed for the "word" to get out about MJ. lol
Q-How many paramedics were actually in that ambulance?
According to Senneff's testimony there was a driver, himself, and Blount. So that is 3 but only two testified?
In my experience, 2 is the norm. And 3 esp in cash-strapped LA seems odd. But ok 3. Let's say all 3 paras were at station when dispatched to call. OK makes sense due to nature of call for a third hand. But normally ambos drive around and patrol til dispatched to call. Why 2 only testified? The role of the "third/driver" is well, to drive and run "errands to and from ambo. What he would see would only be bits and pieces and dismissed as hearsay in court. BUT....
The real question is WHO is NOT in the ambo.....and why....
<the following is hypothectical scenario>
After an extended and extraordinaire attempts to revive MJ, the "doctor" in charge decides that the staff at UCLA could possibly have a better chance to revive MJ. So slowly they proceed, as to make sure enough press and fans are able to gather at UCLA. Suddenly in route, there is change in MJ's condtion, one a CARDIOLOGIST would be well educated in and perhaps able to alter the final outcome. What good fortune! But he is following in the car behind and unable to provide for his patient. How sad for MJ.
OMG really! NO doctor would EVER leave his patient at this time. And if that scenario had played out on Joe Blow, the family would have sued the $&^% out of him! To me, this ia a HUGE clue/hint. But hey, he needed a get away car!
Another thing is that I don’t believe that the real paramedics were even dispatched that day to Michael’s house it was more than likely FBI/SWAT.....
It doesn't matter. OK they were "real to make it look authentic. We never saw their faces, who knows. Since this the FBI is involved dont matter who or what testified/lied because they are protected and probably well-paid. So imo it's irrelevant.
Point being, when someone codes, if a pulse is not restored in the first 10 minutes, the chance decreases greatly ever minute after. After 10 mins the chance of them being a vegtable is likely as well oragn and other tissue death. To spend that much time "trying" is great drama. Just gives more time for the excitment to build, and if you happen not to know what was going on, we will drive really slow so you can catch up. Great TV!! Brilliant!
And, Im convinced..., none taken, but a reason to drive slow? Arguably the most reconginized person on the planet is dead or close to it...maybe the gas pedal was stuck and they couldn't go faster! LOL
-
@AllInGoodTime,
The questions you answered were from my post.
Peace
-
@AllInGoodTime,
The questions you answered were from my post.
Peace
I want to clarify this by saying the questions up to the hypothetical part were in my post. Also the link below will take you to my post on who the 3rd guy was driving the ambulance. I figured out who. Thanks for your responses.
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=317625#p317625 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=317625#p317625)
Also in the link below I have already wrote about UCLA's involvement.
UCLA conversation aka my opinion.
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=314645#p314645 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=314645#p314645)
Additional posts regarding Capt. Steve Ruda from LAFD and the 3rd fireman/paramedic who showed up on 6/25/2009.
3rd paramedic conversation.
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=317580#p317378 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=317580#p317378)
Capt. Steve Ruda from LAFD conversation.
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=317580#p317550 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=317580#p317550)
-
Great to have professional medical persons onboard..thanks to all.
I still don't know if anyone has answered this question though.
Who is the other person jumping out of the ambulance at the hospital. The one that the bodyguard is trying to cover up?? Michael was already on the stretcher, so who else was that important to cover up from the media???
-
I’ve noticed several people mention how people were always outside around Michael’s house; so again, what are the odds that someone called 911 from MJ’s house (the most famous entertainer in the world) requesting dispatch service and Ben (who is very well acquainted with Michael) and his team are the ONLY papps outside to catch the footage. I understand that Farrah had passed away earlier that morning but with the papps they only care about the newest thing in news so by that time (and I feel bad for saying this, but with ALL DUE RESPECT) Farrah then became old news because their job is to get the most recent news available. If a call was actually placed to 911, it is a farfetched idea for me to believe that with all the papps in LA alone, Ben would be the only one interested in this story! Besides, maybe I missed it but did Ben ever say how he got word of the situation unfolding at MJ’s house?
Thess are very good questions that already contain the answer.
-
OK, the paramedics are not from FBI, but this doesn't mean FBI is not involved. The paramedics just aren't allowed to speack about it.
And I really think it's about time TS to come back. Because if TS stays away much longer we might think something very bad happened to him OR that his absence is a diversion.
GINAFELICIA I just wanted to say to you not to be convinced so easily (because it's going to make you go CRAZY for one ;) .) That’s not to say that I’m right and Im_convincedmjalive is wrong or Im_convincedmjalive is right and I’m wrong. As far as I'm concerned on this site you have to be from another planet to be completely wrong because nobody has the answer other than TS on this site. I would love to know what your theory is however… :)
I do pray that everything is ok with TS but I think it would be nice if everyone could come together and try to agree upon one or two possible theories for when he does come back. Just because TS is unavailable doesn't mean the hoax becomes unavailable. It seems to me that with the exception of a few people, they lose interest as soon as they don't hear from TS for a while which is very unfortunate because a lot can be accomplished without him here all the time. IMO
It's not that I'm convinced so easy but for me it is enough to know that FBI was involved. If the paramedics are real or not - it seems to me it doesn't matter anymore. The key information is that FBI is involved and that makes everything fall in place.
Unfortunately I have a demanding jos and a family which I NEGLECTED very much because of the hoax and I don't have TIME to think about and develop detailed theories.
My comment about TS was not to pressure him or to say that we can't go on without him, but more to express my feeling that he's watching our discussions (of course paranoid as I am I could be very wrong) just to see what we do without him and I don't know if this is quite OK . I know that being here means we somehow "agreed" to be like "rats in the lab" so it shouldn't bother me.......@TS I apologise if I am wrong
-
Oh.....some of you said that maybe FBI is watching this site.
If they are involved - why not? After all those guests have to be real people - Hello guests :|
PS: I've noticed usually there are more guests than registered users and I think this is strange
-
Great to have professional medical persons onboard..thanks to all.
I still don't know if anyone has answered this question though.
Who is the other person jumping out of the ambulance at the hospital. The one that the bodyguard is trying to cover up?? Michael was already on the stretcher, so who else was that important to cover up from the media???
I thought about that too...but I think they are covering MJ from that side so people don't take photos from that angle.
-
Great to have professional medical persons onboard..thanks to all.
I still don't know if anyone has answered this question though.
Who is the other person jumping out of the ambulance at the hospital. The one that the bodyguard is trying to cover up?? Michael was already on the stretcher, so who else was that important to cover up from the media???
I thought about that too...but I think they are covering MJ from that side so people don't take photos from that angle.
Thanks...optical illusion. But it sure looks like someone is getting out...
-
Oh.....some of you said that maybe FBI is watching this site.
If they are involved - why not? After all those guests have to be real people - Hello guests :|
PS: I've noticed usually there are more guests than registered users and I think this is strange
I do not know if the FBI is watching, but judges and lawyers Murray certainly are!
As for the TS, he said he would not post during the trial and for all purposes, the trial process has begun.
TS, is for this that you're not here? :?
-
Oh.....some of you said that maybe FBI is watching this site.
If they are involved - why not? After all those guests have to be real people - Hello guests :|
PS: I've noticed usually there are more guests than registered users and I think this is strange
I do not know if the FBI is watching, but judges and lawyers Murray certainly are!
As for the TS, he said he would not post during the trial and for all purposes, the trial process has begun.
TS, is for this that you're not here? :?
As of now there are 49 guests on here on this whole site.
-
Here is a screenshot of the TRUTH facebook page, the one who posted the picture and a note. http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= ... 22&theater (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2033713722886&set=o.367014012922&theater)
This person definitely has issues with English :?
-
Here is a screenshot of the TRUTH facebook page, the one who posted the picture and a note. http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= ... 22&theater (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2033713722886&set=o.367014012922&theater)
This person definitely has issues with English :?
sorry wrong topic :oops: Souza could you please delete it.
-
I rarely post in TS threads but I hope that TS is indeed okay. Keeping the faith. :| And yes, I also believe highly that there are government types sitting and waiting for posts on this forum.
-
I rarely post in TS threads but I hope that TS is indeed okay. Keeping the faith. :| And yes, I also believe highly that there are government types sitting and waiting for posts on this forum.
I see the paranoia is spreading quikly :lol: :lol: :lol:
just kidding :mrgreen:
for example, now there are 20 registred users and 64 guests :?
-
Hi Chickies,
Just FYI, so we don't waste page after page on this, wondering--- if the Federal Bureau of Investigation is involved with anyone, phones, and social media are tapped, until the case is resolved. Someone is always watching these kinds of sites, but especially THIS one, attracting a different kind of fan/surfer(why do you THINK there are no troublesome ads and distracting pop-ups, HERE????? :roll: ). I can't even imagine what they are surveilling for, unless there have been threats made to fans, and they believe someone will show himself HERE, :? in order to compel MJ to come out (think: they can't get to his kids or other significant others, and they CAN'T get to him...who does he care about next? US, yeah.)
Just remember, you NEVER know who you are talking to online. Especially if anyone "discloses" to you, in PM, that they are an "official" and that you may be able to "help" them, "on the sly", to save MJ's life or something...you NEED to report this to Admin. A genuine agent discloses NOTHING. But they sure are getting an earful :shock: . And so is Michael Jackson...
The other thing, I feel I have to just say that people need to have a little more sensitivity or patience, with regard to people who disappear for a time from the site. Family is more important than anything. These are the people God hooked you up with, and no matter how little or long you have them, their needs come first. You have to know, right? Things happen, which are not part of any ARG.
My personal opinion, and, I could be way, WAY off, is that TS is holding vigil where MJ needs him/her to be (because he (himself) CAN't be there for more than a moment at a time just for safety's sake. Just a word.... :|
-
This hoax, if at the end it´s proven that MJ is behind it, will be the reason to call him a great artist.
He has been using the hoax as a happening to create emotions on different people. That´s what i call art!
The hoax it´s an art piece itself!
G E N I O U S
-
people keep mentioning that there were usually people around and that there only a couple of fans. wonder where the little stalker troop was at that time? had anyone said?
-
Now we're waiting for TS to BAM?!? :lol: Hope everything is fine with TS though. It would be great if he could inform us about what's going on with him, at least if he's ok or not.
-
Hi Chickies,
Just FYI, so we don't waste page after page on this, wondering--- if the Federal Bureau of Investigation is involved with anyone, phones, and social media are tapped, until the case is resolved. Someone is always watching these kinds of sites, but especially THIS one, attracting a different kind of fan/surfer(why do you THINK there are no troublesome ads and distracting pop-ups, HERE????? :roll: ). I can't even imagine what they are surveilling for, unless there have been threats made to fans, and they believe someone will show himself HERE, :? in order to compel MJ to come out (think: they can't get to his kids or other significant others, and they CAN'T get to him...who does he care about next? US, yeah.)
That's scary, at least for me.
-
Hi Chickies,
Just FYI, so we don't waste page after page on this, wondering--- if the Federal Bureau of Investigation is involved with anyone, phones, and social media are tapped, until the case is resolved. Someone is always watching these kinds of sites, but especially THIS one, attracting a different kind of fan/surfer(why do you THINK there are no troublesome ads and distracting pop-ups, HERE????? :roll: ). I can't even imagine what they are surveilling for, unless there have been threats made to fans, and they believe someone will show himself HERE, :? in order to compel MJ to come out (think: they can't get to his kids or other significant others, and they CAN'T get to him...who does he care about next? US, yeah.)
That's scary, at least for me.
ditto
-
This hoax, if at the end it´s proven that MJ is behind it, will be the reason to call him a great artist.
He has been using the hoax as a happening to create emotions on different people. That´s what i call art!
The hoax it´s an art piece itself!
G E N I O U S
Hello Gema!!
Believe me that I know what you say.That part about create emotion on people got me ,really hard <!-- s8-) --> 8-) <!-- s8-) --> .To make people FEEL different emotions ,like joy or sorrow it's what I call GENIUS also.Ofcourse you and the rest, must remember the first lines from MOONWALK.
"Chapter One
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've always wanted to be able to tell stories, you know, stories that came from my soul. I'd like to sit by a fire and tell people stories - make them see pictures, make them cry and laugh, take them anywhere emotionally with something as deceptively simple as words. I'd like to tell tales to move their souls and transform them. I've always wanted to be able to do that. Imagine how the great writers must feel, knowing they have that power. I sometimes feel I could do it. It's something I'd like to develop. In a way, songwriting uses the same skills, creates the emotional highs and lows, but the story is a sketch. It's quicksilver. There are very few books written on the art of storytelling, how to grip listeners, how to get a group of people together and amuse them. No costumes, no makeup, no nothing, just you and your voice, and your powerful ability to take them anywhere, to transform their lives, if only for minutes."
Bless you all,
LOVE
-
Now we're waiting for TS to BAM?!? :lol: Hope everything is fine with TS though. It would be great if he could inform us about what's going on with him, at least if he's ok or not.
I agree. Somehow TS feels like part of this family and my life. Well, I consider him/her that. I hope he/she is fine and come back soon to let us know how is. In the meantime, let's continue the circus! 8-)
-
Hello mjsmyheart! :D WELCOME!!! :D I really enjoyed reading your post, so here are some questions i wanted to ask you. Same as you i believe that the "leaf-like pattern" is not a reflection, but the question is WHY would they photoshop it into the picture? Why would they want us to see Michael's face in this patter?
Also i would love to hear your theory about FBI, because this thread was supposed to be about Paramedics (real, not real, involved in the hoax, not involved).
L.O.V.E to all! :D
Hello Kristina4LOVE,
I'm glad you enjoyed the post and I thank you for responding; I've been dying to express my beliefs for soooo long now but had no one to share them with so I appreciate you guys for allowing me to do that.
With regards to your questions...
I believe the "leaf-like pattern" was photoshopped into the picture to act like a pre-test I guess. My belief is based on the following comment from TS comments:
I am going to let you in on another little secret. The leaf pattern is not the most important part of the investigation. Then why did I start with that, and why do I repeatedly bring it up? Because it is a very good example of how to investigate—and more importantly, how NOT to investigate. And in this one sense, the leaf pattern is extremely important. Because if you use the wrong methods with the leaf pattern, then you will probably use wrong methods in other areas of investigation—and that is when it becomes very important.
What I understand from this comment is that the pattern has nothing to do with this hoax (or at least it's an insignificant part.) It's purpose is only to serve as a pre-test so that we can train our brains and condition our ways of thinking for the much larger part of this hoax.
I believe MJ's face was planted into the picture within the 'leaf-like pattern" to further prove that the pattern is a manipulation of photoshop. I'm not as good with numbers as TS and MJ but I would love to know what the odds are that there is clearly an image MJ within the MJ hoax photo :D.
In other words what I think TS is trying to say (and I apologize if I am wrong) is how are we supposed to debunk the more serious matters of this hoax (possible FBI involvement, the judicial system, the medical field, etc. which are so much more complicated matters) if we can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that an obvious hoax photo is FAKE!
As far as the FBI, I'm gonna try to keep it breif because I've noticed that once I start writing on this thread my thoughts get ahead of me and by the time I'm done I've written a novel. lol :P To be honest, I never really thought about the FBI actually being involved until I read it on this thread, but now that I consider it the FBI involvement would explain soooo much. Now, I haven't done too much reseach on this theory to build a strong case but what I believe is that the paramedics are actually FBI agents that really work as paramedics. What I mean by that, is that when the FBI is working on a mission I would assume they would have their own trained paramedics because of the nature of their cases; I don't think a regular paramedic would have the same advanced training that I assume the FBI paramedics would because the FBI are trained for some of the worst type of situations.
I'm also convinced that the FBI is more likely than not involved because it explains things such as Joe telling LK "I don't know where the body is, THEY won't tell me." Seriously, first of all who else could THEY be? What I got from reading the numerous book I have on MJ is that if Katherine knew then Joe would know too. Now what are the odds that Katherine (Michael's own beloved mother) would not know where her child's body was at all times if he was in fact dead. Besides, didn't other family members "visit the body;" now I understand Joe when he says he doesn't want to remember him like that because burying your own child has to be the hardest thing in the world but that doesn't stop one from knowing where the body is.
Ok, I gonna have to stop there for now because there are sooooo many leads that right now only the FBI could be the answer to IMO and I will be literally typing for days :shock:
Please share with me your thoughts though because I would love to know what you think about this situation.
Much love xoxo
Mjsmyheart thank you for a reply! :) Your theory about the "leaf-like pattern" sound plausible to me. It could be used as a "Pre-test", but only for believers. I made a little test: I showed the ambulance picture to my family members and my friends, asking them to find something odd about this picture, anything that can draw their attention. Nothing was found, picture looked TOTALLY normal to them. Then i made it easier, i asked them to find any kind of "pattern" or dark spots on this image. More than half of them found the "leaf-like pattern"(the rest found it only after i said that they have to look on the left side of the picture), but non of them recognized "face" in this pattern, only after i pointed out to them that it has some facial features to it, they agreed that it does kind of look like a face. So that tells me that a person who is not really interested in finding some kind of clues, a person who is not interested in hoax investigation will never notice it. (except maybe for people who have a natural eagle eye, or professional photographers). So my guess is that this "pre-test" was created specially for believers, people who are well trained in noticing odd things in pictures, videos etc. :lol: Before i learned everything about subliminal messages, the importance of every little detail in pictures, videos, movies etc. i would only see a BIGGER picture in everything that was going on around me. But now i can see and hear DETAILS, which sometimes are more important than the BIGGER picture they(media, music industry, movie industry, etc) are trying to promote.
The FBI involvement is tooooooo complicated for me to discuss. I have never lived in U.S.A, i don't know how the law enforcements are operating. Is it corrupted or not? The only thing i know is that the law enforcements in Russia are VERY corrupted, if you have money you can buy everything and everyone: doctors, police, jurors, the judge, witnesses. If they are fair people and you can't buy them, some people threaten them and than they have no other choice. So that's why the people who are actually going to jail for a committed crimes are poor with no connections. Or it can be someone very rich with a lot of connections who crossed the road of some dude who is MUCH more powerful than he is. It's a very ugly game they are playing. :evil:
The FBI theory is basically that Michael had few key people in there who helped him to pull this off (at least that's what i've concluded after reading this thread) because the whole FBI department couldn't possibly be involved (simply because the people who are helping Michael must be good and wanting to Heal The World together with him, which i doubt that the whole FBI department is willing to do). The problem that i have with FBI is that they are by far not the almighty law enforcement. Here is why:
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/faqs (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/faqs)
Who monitors or oversees the FBI?
The FBI's activities are closely and regularly scrutinized by a variety of entities. Congress—through several oversight committees in the Senate and House—reviews the FBI's budget appropriations, programs, and selected investigations. The results of FBI investigations are often reviewed by the judicial system during court proceedings. Within the U.S. Department of Justice, the FBI is responsible to the attorney general, and it reports its findings to U.S. Attorneys across the country. The FBI’s intelligence activities are overseen by the Director of National Intelligence.
Where is the FBI's authority written down?
The FBI has a range of legal authorities that enable it to investigate federal crimes and threats to national security, as well as to gather intelligence and assist other law enforcement agencies.
Federal law gives the FBI authority to investigate all federal crime not assigned exclusively to another federal agency (28, Section 533 of the U.S. Code.) Title 28, U.S. Code, Section 533, authorizes the attorney general to appoint officials to detect and prosecute crimes against the United States. Title 18, U.S. Code, Section 3052, specifically authorizes special agents and officials of the FBI to make arrests, carry firearms, and serve warrants. Title 18, U.S. Code, Section 3107, empowers special agents and officials to make seizures under warrant for violation of federal statutes. The FBI's authority to investigate specific criminal violations is conferred by numerous other congressional statutes—such as the Congressional Assassination, Kidnapping, and Assault Act (Title 18, U.S. Code, Section 351). The FBI has special investigative jurisdiction to investigate violations of state law in limited circumstances, specifically felony killings of state law enforcement officers (28 U.S.C. § 540), violent crimes against interstate travelers (28 U.S.C. § 540A0, and serial killers (28 U.S.C. §540B). A request by an appropriate state official is required before the FBI has authority to investigate these matters. In addition, Title 28, Code of Federal Regulations, Section 0.85, outlines the investigative and other responsibilities of the FBI, including the collection of fingerprint cards and identification records; the training of state and local law enforcement officials at the FBI National Academy; and the operation of the National Crime Information Center and the FBI Laboratory.
The FBI has authority to investigate threats to the national security pursuant to presidential executive orders, attorney general authorities, and various statutory sources. Title II of the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004, Pubic Law 108-458, 118 Stat. 3638, outlines FBI intelligence authorities, as does Executive Order 12333; 50 U.S.C. 401 et seq.; 50 U.S.C. 1801 et seq.
This combination of authorities gives the FBI the unique ability to address national security and criminal threats that are increasingly intertwined and to shift between the use of intelligence tools such as surveillance or recruiting sources and law enforcement tools of arrest and prosecution. Unlike many domestic intelligence agencies around the world, the FBI can shift seamlessly between intelligence collection and action. This allows the FBI to continue gathering intelligence on a subject to learn more about his social and financial network, but shift gears quickly to arrest him if harm to an innocent person appears imminent. The threat of prosecution, in turn, can be used to encourage cooperation to support further intelligence gathering.
So from that i can assume that Michael should have people in U.S Department of Justice, Congress and U.S Attorneys.
This part of the hoax is way too complicated for me, but very interesting though, i wish i had more knowledge in that aria. My brain hurts when i'm trying to read and learn something about this. :lol:
L.O.V.E to all! :D
-
This hoax, if at the end it´s proven that MJ is behind it, will be the reason to call him a great artist.
He has been using the hoax as a happening to create emotions on different people. That´s what i call art!
The hoax it´s an art piece itself!
G E N I O U S
Hello Gema!!
Believe me that I know what you say.That part about create emotion on people got me ,really hard <!-- s8-) --> 8-) <!-- s8-) --> .To make people FEEL different emotions ,like joy or sorrow it's what I call GENIUS also.Ofcourse you and the rest, must remember the first lines from MOONWALK.
"Chapter One
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've always wanted to be able to tell stories, you know, stories that came from my soul. I'd like to sit by a fire and tell people stories - make them see pictures, make them cry and laugh, take them anywhere emotionally with something as deceptively simple as words. I'd like to tell tales to move their souls and transform them. I've always wanted to be able to do that. Imagine how the great writers must feel, knowing they have that power. I sometimes feel I could do it. It's something I'd like to develop. In a way, songwriting uses the same skills, creates the emotional highs and lows, but the story is a sketch. It's quicksilver. There are very few books written on the art of storytelling, how to grip listeners, how to get a group of people together and amuse them. No costumes, no makeup, no nothing, just you and your voice, and your powerful ability to take them anywhere, to transform their lives, if only for minutes."
Bless you all,
LOVE
Thanks a lot for the tip! Looks to me that Michael´s ideas had always been there. Hopefully "the hoax" is an artistic expression of his.
-
Now we're waiting for TS to BAM?!? :lol: Hope everything is fine with TS though. It would be great if he could inform us about what's going on with him, at least if he's ok or not.
I agree. Somehow TS feels like part of this family and my life. Well, I consider him/her that. I hope he/she is fine and come back soon to let us know how is. In the meantime, let's continue the circus! 8-)
Agreed. I hope TS is doing okay.. :?
-
I,m also concerned for TS now, just an "I'm OK" would do...God Bless
-
I think he is...maybe he just needs more time. :)
-
Thanks MJhasSpoken, I guess we just have to be patient
-
Now we're waiting for TS to BAM?!? :lol: Hope everything is fine with TS though. It would be great if he could inform us about what's going on with him, at least if he's ok or not.
BAM! :lol:
Sorry I have been away for a couple of weeks, but things are a little better now. However, I still won't be here every day; probably only once or twice a week.
Good news: it's about time for a new level, however there is one unanswered objection to FBI involvement: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=1050#p321369
-
Welcome back TS :) Hope all is well for you!
Blessings Always!
-
Hi TS. So good to hear from you. Hope the next level doesn't BAM boozle us too much. Sorry about the bad bam joke. I couldn't resist.
-
Ok.....one thing that has had me thinking lately is the turn of leadership in the state of California. On June 25, 2009, Arnold Schwarzenegger was governor. Now they have Jerry Brown, once again. Was Arnold somehow instrumental in all of this? Was he the one who pulled in the FBI...or tried to? He's been photographed and talked about lately. Perhaps, this was an unforeseeable circumstance. Or perhaps, Arnold didn't/couldn't run for another term because of his involvement? I have to dig further into this....statute of limitations, laws around prior government officials etc.......
Be back later........
Blessings!
-
Good news: it's about time for a new level, however there is one unanswered objection to FBI involvement: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=1050#p321369
Just one unanswered onjection? Was there any answer regarding FBI? I'm sorry but I haven't seen any.Just opinion but no fact. I still wonder how people are supposed to find the answers from speculating between us.
I haven't said anything on the subject as it won't help. There's no way I can find an answer I don't have access to. Because we simply don't have access to informations that probably only Michael himself does. So the whole discussion brings people nowhere. It only entertains speculation. And I still don't know what concrete evidence of FBI involvement was given. People share their opinions. But that's not proofs or facts. What was already answered?
I will just say this: I believe there COULD be FBI involvement. How? I have no idea. Proof? Again I simply can't know that. How are people supposed to get to those proofs? There's no way to proof. So for me, so far there's no proof of FBI involvement. even if I believe it could be. But belief is not fact.
-
Maybe we got too close to figuring out who TS is. ???
-
Now we're waiting for TS to BAM?!? :lol: Hope everything is fine with TS though. It would be great if he could inform us about what's going on with him, at least if he's ok or not.
BAM! :lol:
Sorry I have been away for a couple of weeks, but things are a little better now. However, I still won't be here every day; probably only once or twice a week.
Good news: it's about time for a new level, however there is one unanswered objection to FBI involvement: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=1050#p321369
Ahhh welcome back TS and thanks for the BAM :lol: You were missed a lot here. I'm so glad to hear that you're ok. :D Now back to FBI involvement issue. :)
-
Am glad to see you back TS & all is better for you now...God bless
-
My thoughts re: FBI are contradictory and I am having trouble sorting them out.
On the one hand, the numerology simultaneously proves and disproves FBI involvement.
The numerology proves that the timing of the hoax and many related events were meticulously planned ahead of time. We have gone further to prove that this planning could only have been done by Michael himself (ie not a murder plot). Because of this meticulous timing, I have a very hard time coming to terms with any federal government body assisting Michael in the hoax while adhering to his demands of timing.
But on the flip side, we have 333 pages of FBI files on Michael Jackson released to public record on 12-21 (ok 12-22 delayed by weather).
That really throws my mind for a loop and I am having trouble making heads or tails from it.
Ps. welcome back TS.
-
Hello Kristina4LOVE,
With regards to your questions...
I believe the "leaf-like pattern" was photoshopped into the picture to act like a pre-test I guess. My belief is based on the following comment from TS comments:
What I understand from this comment is that the pattern has nothing to do with this hoax (or at least it's an insignificant part.) It's purpose is only to serve as a pre-test so that we can train our brains and condition our ways of thinking for the much larger part of this hoax.
I believe MJ's face was planted into the picture within the 'leaf-like pattern" to further prove that the pattern is a manipulation of photoshop. I'm not as good with numbers as TS and MJ but I would love to know what the odds are that there is clearly an image MJ within the MJ hoax photo <!-- s:D --> :D <!-- s:D -->.
In other words what I think TS is trying to say (and I apologize if I am wrong) is how are we supposed to debunk the more serious matters of this hoax (possible FBI involvement, the judicial system, the medical field, etc. which are so much more complicated matters) if we can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that an obvious hoax photo is FAKE!
As far as the FBI, I'm gonna try to keep it breif because I've noticed that once I start writing on this thread my thoughts get ahead of me and by the time I'm done I've written a novel. lol <!-- s:P --> :P <!-- s:P --> To be honest, I never really thought about the FBI actually being involved until I read it on this thread, but now that I consider it the FBI involvement would explain soooo much. Now, I haven't done too much reseach on this theory to build a strong case but what I believe is that the paramedics are actually FBI agents that really work as paramedics. What I mean by that, is that when the FBI is working on a mission I would assume they would have their own trained paramedics because of the nature of their cases; I don't think a regular paramedic would have the same advanced training that I assume the FBI paramedics would because the FBI are trained for some of the worst type of situations.
I'm also convinced that the FBI is more likely than not involved because it explains things such as Joe telling LK "I don't know where the body is, THEY won't tell me." Seriously, first of all who else could THEY be? What I got from reading the numerous book I have on MJ is that if Katherine knew then Joe would know too. Now what are the odds that Katherine (Michael's own beloved mother) would not know where her child's body was at all times if he was in fact dead. Besides, didn't other family members "visit the body;" now I understand Joe when he says he doesn't want to remember him like that because burying your own child has to be the hardest thing in the world but that doesn't stop one from knowing where the body is.
Ok, I gonna have to stop there for now because there are sooooo many leads that right now only the FBI could be the answer to IMO and I will be literally typing for days <!-- s:shock: --> :shock: <!-- s:shock: -->
Please share with me your thoughts though because I would love to know what you think about this situation.
Much love xoxo
Mjsmyheart thank you for a reply! <!-- s:) --> :) <!-- s:) --> Your theory about the "leaf-like pattern" sound plausible to me. It could be used as a "Pre-test", but only for believers. I made a little test: I showed the ambulance picture to my family members and my friends, asking them to find something odd about this picture, anything that can draw their attention. Nothing was found, picture looked TOTALLY normal to them. Then i made it easier, i asked them to find any kind of "pattern" or dark spots on this image. More than half of them found the "leaf-like pattern"(the rest found it only after i said that they have to look on the left side of the picture), but non of them recognized "face" in this pattern, only after i pointed out to them that it has some facial features to it, they agreed that it does kind of look like a face. So that tells me that a person who is not really interested in finding some kind of clues, a person who is not interested in hoax investigation will never notice it. (except maybe for people who have a natural eagle eye, or professional photographers). So my guess is that this "pre-test" was created specially for believers, people who are well trained in noticing odd things in pictures, videos etc. <!-- s:lol: --> :lol: <!-- s:lol: --> Before i learned everything about subliminal messages, the importance of every little detail in pictures, videos, movies etc. i would only see a BIGGER picture in everything that was going on around me. But now i can see and hear DETAILS, which sometimes are more important than the BIGGER picture they(media, music industry, movie industry, etc) are trying to promote.
mjsmyheart, what you wrote about the paramedics is very interesting and that sounds so plausible to me too. Like you wrote the paramedics can definitely be FBI agents that really work as paramedics. Probably they wouldn't like to involve so many people out of the FBI. Like they say: "What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas", we can probably say "What happens in FBI, stays in FBI". <!-- s:D --> :D <!-- s:D -->
Kristina, I'd love to write a couple of things regarding what you wrote in your post that I resized them. You wrote that the fake ambulance picture was given for only believers to notice it. I do not agree with this. IMHO all of the clues were given for everyone to notice them but by knowing not everyone could notice them. When that fake picture was prepared maybe there were no believers around yet, even maybe it was prepared before the hoax started. I do believe that Michael knew not everyone could notice the clues and therefore the majority of the fans are non-believers. I always say this; if you found out the hoax, and understood its purposes, it means that you do understand and know Michael so well, what his desires are and what he is capable of. Michael gave everyone a chance to open their third eye to see the invisible and to believe the unbelievable. But I do not think that he expected everyone to find out about the hoax. We found out about the hoax and still finding out the clues because we are people with open minds and we do not believe everything we see or hear. We are people who realize what's also at the background of a picture instead of focusing the picture itself alone. With my own words; we're people who have a third eye. I feel some like we're Neo in the Matrix movie and since many others could only see the numbers on the monitor of their computer, we can see the picture in those numbers. And isn't it amazing to see that almost all of us get the clues at the same time and at the same way? This makes me feel how we're all bonded to each other and to Michael. <!-- s:) --> :) <!-- s:) --> Shortly what I'm trying to say is; we were already open minded people before the hoax started, that's the reason why we found out about the hoax but like you wrote we were trained and we improved ourselves with this hoax. And like you two wrote, the ambulance picture could be a pre-test as it was one of the first clues we received. Blessings to all. <!-- s:) --> :) <!-- s:) -->
-
_Anna_ wrote:
TS_comments wrote:
Good news: it's about time for a new level, however there is one unanswered objection to FBI involvement: viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=1050#p321369 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=1050#p321369)
Just one unanswered onjection? Was there any answer regarding FBI? I'm sorry but I haven't seen any.Just opinion but no fact. I still wonder how people are supposed to find the answers from speculating between us.
I haven't said anything on the subject as it won't help. There's no way I can find an answer I don't have access to. Because we simply don't have access to informations that probably only Michael himself does. So the whole discussion brings people nowhere. It only entertains speculation. And I still don't know what concrete evidence of FBI involvement was given. People share their opinions. But that's not proofs or facts. What was already answered?
I will just say this: I believe there COULD be FBI involvement. How? I have no idea. Proof? Again I simply can't know that. How are people supposed to get to those proofs? There's no way to proof. So for me, so far there's no proof of FBI involvement. even if I believe it could be. But belief is not fact._Anna_Soldier
Posts: 795Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 12:11 pm
You are right, our theories or what we believe proves nothing, i can say that the paramedics were men of the FBI but as i am going to try another person ... this is not easy
-
I forgot to mention......nice date/time TS:
April 10, 2011 2:59pm
4+1+2+1+1+2+5+9=25 (2+5=7)
or discounting a 4 for the month of April we have
1+2+1+1+2+5+9=21 (7+7+7)
Just having some fun........
Blessings
-
Glad to see you're back, TS. Also glad things are a bit better for you. Hope they continue to improve.
So, you're busy, hm.... Hope that is a good sign..
Anyway...Re the governor. The gubernatorial elections were not a surprise. This was Schwarzeneggers second term and so he could not run again.
FBI: I think even if we think the paramedics were FBI agents, that would STILL mean that the real paramedics would have to be told something. They might have noticed "their" ambulance being out and being mentioned in the media as the one taking Michael in.
So, would it not just have been easier, to have them perform as the paramedics in the first place? Either way- there HAD to have been cooperation between FBI, law enforcement, and paramedics etc.
Can't wait for the new phase.
Bet it will be a thriller- as they all are!
-
It's good to have you back TS! You add that special dimension!
Although speculation still swirls on with never solid proof.
You said these questions were still unanswered.
Kristina4LOVE
I really enjoyed reading your post, so here are some questions i wanted to ask you. Same as you i believe that the "leaf-like pattern" is not a reflection, but the question is WHY would they photoshop it into the picture? Why would they want us to see Michael's face in this patter?
It's a definate possibility that the leaves link to the FBI logo, and the random face, may in fact be deliberate, but put in to look random. You TS are focusing on it, and the pattern is not part of the background car PS layer, so it must have unique purpose. The face shows Michael alive in a mirrored but upright position to the Michael laying on the stretcher.
TMZ is definately wanting us to notice Murray at the Grove on the "7"th of April. And who else was there same day--Arnold Schwarzenegger, and the Zimbio.com media showed the same fan (holding Playboy mag.) getting Murray's autograph also standing right behind Arnold in other pics, connecting the two. Does Arnold have direct connection to the FBI? IDK
-
Wellcome back TS hope all is well with you and that things are improving for you. ;) Did you pick this date for a reason? I wonder is that a big 10/4 even :lol:
Looking forward to moving to the next level.
Blessings
:P
-
Thanks for the info on CA elections, ignisaeternus. I didn't realize that...I don't live in CA. It did start under Arnold's reign, was just thinking of all angles. I appreciate the help. :)
I was reading on the FBI information site linked within the thread. Under the question of Who is the FBI.....it states that the FBI is a national security organization . So, if they are involved, it's safe to assume that whatever the reason it had to do with national security, not a localized problem, correct. I remember hearing threats to the concerts.....that would get the FBI involved. What other threat would be at a national level? From reading on their own site, it sounds to me like they work with different agencies all the time. Maybe they were in the know, but didn't actually partake in June 25. I still feel there is something fishy about ambulance 71......just have no idea. The numerology is a difficult thing to digest. If it was done because of threats, how does that all work out? It was pre-planned by all accounts with the numbers. It's almost like we have some numbers missing. We all know the autograph numbers, the 2040, June 25, etc, etc......is there a number or set of numbers out there, that have been completely overlooked...perhaps for years? Another signature, another code implanted for all to see....yet missed. In a video? In a concert? On an album? Somewhere is a missing link.......back to reading........thanks for letting me gather my thoughts. Sometimes, it's just good to write things down. At least it is for me :oops:
Blessings Always!
-
Welcome back TS, hope you are doing well my friend!
As soon as I saw the name Arnold Schwarzenegger, the first thing that popped into my head was Arnie's "catch phrase" "I'll be back", from the Terminator. :mrgreen: Maybe that is the only connection between the two...Michael will be back! Or maybe there is more to it, I'm not sure yet... Just thinking out loud here, sorry.
I also agree with what Anna said...We can try to "debunk" the ambulance pic and everything else related to the hoax, until we are blue in the face, but we will never be able to "prove" anything...unfortunately. This whole hoax has been a great "learning" experience though, and it has changed the way I view EVERYTHING now! Like Michael said, "it's and adventure, a great adventure"! Yes Michael...it certainly is my friend! :lol: :mrgreen: I can't wait for the truth to prevail, so we can find out just how much of this hoax we actually figured out, and just how much we created ourselves! There is no doubt in my mind that we have some very talented "investigators" here on the forum, and we also have some very "creative" minds here as well, which has helped to make this a "great adventure"!
Kudos, to all my fellow "hoaxers". Keep up the great work!! I love you all!!!! :D
-
OK, the paramedics are not from FBI, but this doesn't mean FBI is not involved. The paramedics just aren't allowed to speack about it.
And I really think it's about time TS to come back. Because if TS stays away much longer we might think something very bad happened to him OR that his absence is a diversion.
GINAFELICIA I just wanted to say to you not to be convinced so easily (because it's going to make you go CRAZY for one <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> .) That’s not to say that I’m right and Im_convincedmjalive is wrong or Im_convincedmjalive is right and I’m wrong. As far as I'm concerned on this site you have to be from another planet to be completely wrong because nobody has the answer other than TS on this site. I would love to know what your theory is however… <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
I do pray that everything is ok with TS but I think it would be nice if everyone could come together and try to agree upon one or two possible theories for when he does come back. Just because TS is unavailable doesn't mean the hoax becomes unavailable. It seems to me that with the exception of a few people, they lose interest as soon as they don't hear from TS for a while which is very unfortunate because a lot can be accomplished without him here all the time. IMO
It's not that I'm convinced so easy but for me it is enough to know that FBI was involved. If the paramedics are real or not - it seems to me it doesn't matter anymore. The key information is that FBI is involved and that makes everything fall in place.
Unfortunately I have a demanding jos and a family which I NEGLECTED very much because of the hoax and I don't have TIME to think about and develop detailed theories.
My comment about TS was not to pressure him or to say that we can't go on without him, but more to express my feeling that he's watching our discussions (of course paranoid as I am I could be very wrong) just to see what we do without him and I don't know if this is quite OK . I know that being here means we somehow "agreed" to be like "rats in the lab" so it shouldn't bother me.......@TS I apologise if I am wrong
Hello GINAFELICIA!!!
Believe me that I know what you mean.I neglected my family also and after 2 years I've started to have big problems with my eyes.My job is with computes also ,so can you imagine <!-- s:( -->:(<!-- s:( --> .I like very much this adventure but like ITS HER said family comes first.Also don't forget what Latoya said in 2009:for Michael family is first then the second are the fans,so for me it's prettey clear.Because of the ecomonic crise ,on my country alot of people are loosing their jobs,and soon I think I will loose mine <!-- s:cry: -->:cry:<!-- s:cry: --> ,so this means I will have to leave this site and the HOAX also.My brother has emotional problems or a depresion and he is drinking also <!-- s:cry: -->:cry:<!-- s:cry: --> .He was in England to work and now he is back .I have to put my life in order and try to help him ,together with my mother.
I would like so much to spent more time here ,because I discovered so many things about this hoax but my time is limited now .I have so many things to share with you my friends ,but like I said my family is first.Michael is very special for me,like for all of us,because of him I can go on in this life,and his music is like a medicine for me .
I APOLOGISE AND PLEASE TRY TO FORGIVE ME FOR THIS CONFESSION HERE ON THIS TOPIC, BUT I HAD TO DO THIS.You,My MJ FAMILY are the ony ones who I can tell this,because I feel I'm loosing my mind <!-- s:cry: -->:cry:<!-- s:cry: --> .
Again I apologise.BYE
IT'S ALL FOR LOVE!!!
-
Good to see you back TS. :)
Is the objection this one?
Kristina4LOVE has said: "The problem that i have with FBI is that they are by far not the almighty law enforcement. Here is why:
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/faqs (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/faqs)"
Who monitors or oversees the FBI?
The FBI's activities are closely and regularly scrutinized by a variety of entities. Congress—through several oversight committees in the Senate and House—reviews the FBI's budget appropriations, programs, and selected investigations. The results of FBI investigations are often reviewed by the judicial system during court proceedings. Within the U.S. Department of Justice, the FBI is responsible to the attorney general, and it reports its findings to U.S. Attorneys across the country. The FBI’s intelligence activities are overseen by the Director of National Intelligence.
"So from that i can assume that Michael should have people in U.S Department of Justice, Congress and U.S Attorneys."
-------
I would say that it is not that easy to investigate and control what the FBI is really doing, especially if only a few persons are involved. In the movies the FBI seems to be untouchable and always "fighting" with the CIA or the Police about jurisdictions lol....more seriously here is one article about that aspect. It dates back to 2001: http://articles.latimes.com/2001/jul/12/news/mn-21327 (http://articles.latimes.com/2001/jul/12/news/mn-21327)
The move eliminates bureaucratic hurdles that had prevented outside Justice Department investigators from probing FBI abuses. And it could preempt similar efforts by congressional lawmakers who complain that the FBI's "arrogance" makes it impervious to outside scrutiny.
For years, the FBI has been largely exempted from inspector general investigations and left to police itself except in rare situations.
I don't know if the situation has changed or not.
-
Dear applehead sending you hugs I really can imagine how you feel it must be too much for you to handle. i really think you should take time for yourself and your family I have sensed your breakdown coming in your last few posts. I hope for your brother to feel better soon...maybe talk to him and try to see what's wrong, sometimes it just takes that you share your feelings with someone to feel better (like you did just now ;) ) Michael knows you love him don't feel guilty of anything and don't apologize because WE LOVE YOU TOO and love is without condition (hugs).
-
Glad to see you're back TS. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
(now for me, back to lurk-mode)
-
Now we're waiting for TS to BAM?!? :lol: Hope everything is fine with TS though. It would be great if he could inform us about what's going on with him, at least if he's ok or not.
BAM! :lol:
Sorry I have been away for a couple of weeks, but things are a little better now. However, I still won't be here every day; probably only once or twice a week.
Good news: it's about time for a new level, however there is one unanswered objection to FBI involvement: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=1050#p321369
WOW!!! I can't believe my own eyes :shock: TS redirected to my post?! Unbelievable!!! :D
Ok now i took a deep breath, i'm fine now. :)
Hello TS! I'm glad that you are back, we worried about you a lot!
Now back to the subject, because i really really want to move on to the next level! :D I think that Sarahli picked the right objection (i think it was the only objection i had to FBI involvement)
Good to see you back TS. :)
Is the objection this one?
Kristina4LOVE has said: "The problem that i have with FBI is that they are by far not the almighty law enforcement. Here is why:
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/faqs (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/faqs)"
Who monitors or oversees the FBI?
The FBI's activities are closely and regularly scrutinized by a variety of entities. Congress—through several oversight committees in the Senate and House—reviews the FBI's budget appropriations, programs, and selected investigations. The results of FBI investigations are often reviewed by the judicial system during court proceedings. Within the U.S. Department of Justice, the FBI is responsible to the attorney general, and it reports its findings to U.S. Attorneys across the country. The FBI’s intelligence activities are overseen by the Director of National Intelligence.
"So from that i can assume that Michael should have people in U.S Department of Justice, Congress and U.S Attorneys."
-------
I would say that it is not that easy to investigate and control what the FBI is really doing, especially if only a few persons are involved. In the movies the FBI seems to be untouchable and always "fighting" with the CIA or the Police about jurisdictions lol....more seriously here is one article about that aspect. It dates back to 2001: http://articles.latimes.com/2001/jul/12/news/mn-21327 (http://articles.latimes.com/2001/jul/12/news/mn-21327)
The move eliminates bureaucratic hurdles that had prevented outside Justice Department investigators from probing FBI abuses. And it could preempt similar efforts by congressional lawmakers who complain that the FBI's "arrogance" makes it impervious to outside scrutiny.
For years, the FBI has been largely exempted from inspector general investigations and left to police itself except in rare situations.
I don't know if the situation has changed or not.
I agree that in the movies FBI guys are always so cool and untouchable. Especially i love movies where only few agents fight against corrupted government and against some corrupted FBI staff as well. :D Here is what FBI have to say about movies and books:
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2008/oc ... -producers (http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2008/october/a-guide-for-writers-authors-and-producers)
Working with the FBI:
A Guide for Writers, Authors, and Producers
We can help: if you are a writer, author, or producer who wants to feature the FBI, we may be able to work with you to create an accurate portrayal of the Bureau.
We’ve been doing it since the 1930s. Most recently, we have assisted the motion pictures “The Kingdom,” “Shooter,” and “Breach”; television programs like “Without A Trace,” “CSI,” “Numb3rs,” “Criminal Minds,” and “The Closer”; and books like Big City, Bad Blood; Lone Wolf-Eric Rudolph: Murder, Myth and the Pursuit of an American Outlaw; and Lightning Out of Lebanon: Hezbollah Terrorists on American Soil.
Specifically, the Investigative Publicity and Public Affairs Unit (IPPAU) in our Office of Public Affairs is a small staff that spends a portion of its time working with domestic and international screenwriters, producers, authors, and other industry personnel associated with TV programs, documentaries, made-for-TV movies, books, and motion pictures. In addition, the unit is the same one that manages national and international publicity for wanted fugitives (including the “Ten Most Wanted Fugitives”), Most Wanted Terrorists, and missing children, and it also coordinates other proactive initiatives.
What we need from you:
Your name, any pertinent company name, point of contact, address, e-mail, and phone number;
Acknowledgement whether the project is “sold,” “green lit,” commissioned, or speculative;
A description how the FBI fits into the project and its relative importance;
An explanation of FBI characters and actions (what they will be doing);
Film script, plot, or treatment;
Project status/timeline/production schedule (if known);
Specificity regarding cases, procedures, or information needed; and
A list of FBI personnel desired (if known) for interviews or backgrounders (note: please allow ample time for the approval process.)
What we can provide you:
Guidance on content regarding FBI investigations, procedures, structure, and history;
Information on costumes, props, scenery, and weapons;
Fact checks;
Liaison and coordination with local FBI field offices;
Coordination of location shots; and
Access to FBI facilities for filming scenes, interviews, or b-roll footage.
Contact information:
Call FBI Headquarters at (202) 324-3000 and ask for the Investigative Publicity and Public Affairs Unit.
Or write to: FBI Headquarters, Investigative Publicity and Public Affairs Unit, Room 7790B, 935 Pennsylvania Avenue N.W., Washington, D.C. 20535.
Or send your complete request via e-mail to You are not allowed to view links.
Register or Login.
Please note: IPPAU considers project assistance on a case-by-case basis. We have limited resources and cannot ensure cooperation or offer reviews or critiques.
Maybe if we watch all the movies and read all the books they've listed we can get a little better understanding of how they operate? :oops: Just a thought, i don't know.
Regarding: who monitors FBI. Of course it's not necessary to have all people from U.S Department of Justice, Congress and U.S Attorneys to be in on the hoax. Again i think that few key people will be enough to cover up each other. There must be a well cooperated chain of people on the right positions. It really bothers me that i can't possibly know all the positions that have to be involved in this chain. People spend years in Universities and years of practice to know all that. We can't just read a couple of articles, official gov. websites, books and get all needed information and facts from it. On the other hand we don't need to know every little detail of how the chain should work, we only need a couple of strong evidences stating that law attorneys are involved. I wish we could find few people who actually know how these different law enforcements connect and cooperate together. :roll:
That's it for now, need to think more about it.
I L.O.V.E you all!
-
wow, wowo, wow...... were LAPD, LAFD, FBI; now Governor, CIA, Dept. of Justice, Attorney General. What's next...White House? (http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/alles_moegliche/mixed-smiley-022.gif)
-
KristinaforLOVE, your post really interests me, thanks for sharing that info. It made me discover a new way to look at the subject of what FBI involvement can mean :idea: and what conclusion I was jumping :| to in regards to that.
-
KristinaforLOVE, your post really interests me, thanks for sharing that info. It made me discover a new way to look at the subject of what FBI involvement can mean :idea: and what conclusion I was jumping :| to in regards to that.
Bec i'm very glad that my post was helpful! :)
L.O.V.E
-
Ok.....one thing that has had me thinking lately is the turn of leadership in the state of California. On June 25, 2009, Arnold Schwarzenegger was governor. Now they have Jerry Brown, once again. Was Arnold somehow instrumental in all of this? Was he the one who pulled in the FBI...or tried to? He's been photographed and talked about lately. Perhaps, this was an unforeseeable circumstance. Or perhaps, Arnold didn't/couldn't run for another term because of his involvement? I have to dig further into this....statute of limitations, laws around prior government officials etc.......
Be back later........
Blessings!
I had the same kind of thought regarding Arnold and I also know that when Jerry Brown was Attorney General he did start an investigation into Michael's death. I hadn't realized until recently he is once again the Gov. of California which imo gives him even more power. Look up Mickey Fine pharmacy here on the forum. I wrote about how the connection could be made between Michael and former Gov. Arnold through his wife. I also know that Dr. Arnie Klien has a connection to UCLA. These are some links to read over regarding Jerry Brown and others.
<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=314645 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=314645)<!-- l -->
<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=72&t=12893#p216153 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=12893#p216153)<!-- l -->
<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=219&t=18386&p=316315 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=219&t=18386&p=316315)<!-- l -->
<!-- m -->http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/31707302/ ... rtainment/ (http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/31707302/ns/today-entertainment/)<!-- m -->
<!-- m -->http://www.sanfranciscosentinel.com/?p=40287 (http://www.sanfranciscosentinel.com/?p=40287)<!-- m -->
<!-- m -->http://www.jerrybrown.org/jerry-brown-a ... ey-general (http://www.jerrybrown.org/jerry-brown-accomplishments-attorney-general)<!-- m -->
<!-- m -->http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/nov ... y_id=42873 (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/nov05election/detail?entry_id=42873)<!-- m -->
Here is the website for office of the attorney general and the missions she/they are working on. <!-- m -->http://oag.ca.gov/ (http://oag.ca.gov/)<!-- m -->
@TS,
Good to hear from you and that things are getting better for you. I am not sure about the unanswered objections you are talking about in the link provided. Can you be more specific on which part your referring to? Thanks in advance.
-
welcome back TS miss you so much! we are always here for you~ :P
-
if the fbi is involved then what ever is goin on might be international. notice the phrase that is constantly repeated "all over the world" by joe and michael himself many times. just a thought
-
Kristina4LOVE wrote:
The problem that i have with FBI is that they are by far not the almighty law enforcement. Here is why:
<!-- m -->http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/faqs (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/faqs)<!-- m -->
Who monitors or oversees the FBI?
The FBI's activities are closely and regularly scrutinized by a variety of entities. Congress—through several oversight committees in the Senate and House—reviews the FBI's budget appropriations, programs, and selected investigations. The results of FBI investigations are often reviewed by the judicial system during court proceedings. Within the U.S. Department of Justice, the FBI is responsible to the attorney general, and it reports its findings to U.S. Attorneys across the country. The FBI’s intelligence activities are overseen by the Director of National Intelligence.
Where is the FBI's authority written down?
The FBI has a range of legal authorities that enable it to investigate federal crimes and threats to national security, as well as to gather intelligence and assist other law enforcement agencies.
Federal law gives the FBI authority to investigate all federal crime not assigned exclusively to another federal agency (28, Section 533 of the U.S. Code.) Title 28, U.S. Code, Section 533, authorizes the attorney general to appoint officials to detect and prosecute crimes against the United States. Title 18, U.S. Code, Section 3052, specifically authorizes special agents and officials of the FBI to make arrests, carry firearms, and serve warrants. Title 18, U.S. Code, Section 3107, empowers special agents and officials to make seizures under warrant for violation of federal statutes. The FBI's authority to investigate specific criminal violations is conferred by numerous other congressional statutes—such as the Congressional Assassination, Kidnapping, and Assault Act (Title 18, U.S. Code, Section 351). The FBI has special investigative jurisdiction to investigate violations of state law in limited circumstances, specifically felony killings of state law enforcement officers (28 U.S.C. § 540), violent crimes against interstate travelers (28 U.S.C. § 540A0, and serial killers (28 U.S.C. §540B). A request by an appropriate state official is required before the FBI has authority to investigate these matters. In addition, Title 28, Code of Federal Regulations, Section 0.85, outlines the investigative and other responsibilities of the FBI, including the collection of fingerprint cards and identification records; the training of state and local law enforcement officials at the FBI National Academy; and the operation of the National Crime Information Center and the FBI Laboratory.
The FBI has authority to investigate threats to the national security pursuant to presidential executive orders, attorney general authorities, and various statutory sources. Title II of the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004, Pubic Law 108-458, 118 Stat. 3638, outlines FBI intelligence authorities, as does Executive Order 12333; 50 U.S.C. 401 et seq.; 50 U.S.C. 1801 et seq.
This combination of authorities gives the FBI the unique ability to address national security and criminal threats that are increasingly intertwined and to shift between the use of intelligence tools such as surveillance or recruiting sources and law enforcement tools of arrest and prosecution. Unlike many domestic intelligence agencies around the world, the FBI can shift seamlessly between intelligence collection and action. This allows the FBI to continue gathering intelligence on a subject to learn more about his social and financial network, but shift gears quickly to arrest him if harm to an innocent person appears imminent. The threat of prosecution, in turn, can be used to encourage cooperation to support further intelligence gathering.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJTN1AIKgXk[/youtube]
Regarding (Michael's FBI files released) the video above explains how involved the FBI was in the 2005 trial and before. The trial was considered a "soft target" for terrorism. The below link (MSNBC) has a video on the right side that also talks of the FBI files and how deeply they were involved in investigating Michael's life. Investigating him to the point of the FBI being corrupt. See my previous post regarding how the different official offices (Attorney General, DEA, LAPD, etc.) are connected and working together. I see it as cleaning up the corruption at all levels. Brian you are looking more involved in the hoax every time I watch you speak. <!-- s;) --> ;) <!-- s;) -->
<!-- m -->http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/31707302/ ... ertainment (http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/31707302/ns/today-entertainment)<!-- m -->
<!-- m -->http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/terrorism (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/terrorism)<!-- m -->
<!-- m -->http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate ... rism_jttfs (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/terrorism/terrorism_jttfs)<!-- m -->
They are our nation's front line on terrorism: small cells of highly trained, locally based, passionately committed investigators, analysts, linguists, SWAT experts, and other specialists from dozens of U.S. law enforcement and intelligence agencies.
-
does anyone remember the bodyguard facebook , seems like the guys were kind of giving people some background on their employment history and one of them might have mentioned formerly being involved with some kind of public agency of this nature. did i dream it?
-
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJTN1AIKgXk[/youtube]
Thanks for posting this video Im_convinced. It's particularly interesting what Brian Oxman says. Oxman claims that back in Aug '09, he learned of the FBI file on MJ and it was he who requested the files be released under the Freedom of Information Act. As a result of that request, the 333 pages were released by the FBI. He also says that as an attorney, he knew the FBI was significantly involved in some of the aspects of Michael's life. I find these comments quite intriguing because Oxman is claiming it was because of him that the FBI files were released (the 33 pages) AND it was Oxman who said the ambulance photo was 99.9% fake, which also totally ties into what everyone's been discussing here. <!-- s:shock: --> :shock: <!-- s:shock: -->
Also, this is unrelated but the former FBI agent in the video sounds a lot like Garth from Wayne's World.
-
Ok.....one thing that has had me thinking lately is the turn of leadership in the state of California. On June 25, 2009, Arnold Schwarzenegger was governor. Now they have Jerry Brown, once again. Was Arnold somehow instrumental in all of this? Was he the one who pulled in the FBI...or tried to? He's been photographed and talked about lately. Perhaps, this was an unforeseeable circumstance. Or perhaps, Arnold didn't/couldn't run for another term because of his involvement? I have to dig further into this....statute of limitations, laws around prior government officials etc.......
Be back later........
Blessings!
I had the same kind of thought regarding Arnold and I also know that when Jerry Brown was Attorney General he did start an investigation into Michael's death. I hadn't realized until recently he is once again the Gov. of California which imo gives him even more power. Look up Mickey Fine pharmacy here on the forum. I wrote about how the connection could be made between Michael and former Gov. Arnold through his wife. I also know that Dr. Arnie Klien has a connection to UCLA. These are some links to read over regarding Jerry Brown and others.
<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=314645 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=314645)<!-- l -->
<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=72&t=12893#p216153 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=12893#p216153)<!-- l -->
<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=219&t=18386&p=316315 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=219&t=18386&p=316315)<!-- l -->
<!-- m -->http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/31707302/ ... rtainment/ (http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/31707302/ns/today-entertainment/)<!-- m -->
<!-- m -->http://www.sanfranciscosentinel.com/?p=40287 (http://www.sanfranciscosentinel.com/?p=40287)<!-- m -->
<!-- m -->http://www.jerrybrown.org/jerry-brown-a ... ey-general (http://www.jerrybrown.org/jerry-brown-accomplishments-attorney-general)<!-- m -->
<!-- m -->http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/nov ... y_id=42873 (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/nov05election/detail?entry_id=42873)<!-- m -->
Here is the website for office of the attorney general and the missions she/they are working on. <!-- m -->http://oag.ca.gov/ (http://oag.ca.gov/)<!-- m -->
@TS,
Good to hear from you and that things are getting better for you. I am not sure about the unanswered objections you are talking about in the link provided. Can you be more specific on which part your referring to? Thanks in advance.
Hey there......
Thanks for the links...great information..... I find the Jerry Brown/Arnold S thing very interesting. Here is a link I just found from Klein's Beverly Hills practice. It has some interesting things about him and UCLA:
<!-- m -->http://www.drarnoldklein.com/home (http://www.drarnoldklein.com/home)<!-- m -->
I fear the rabbit hole is getting deeper, lol!
applehead- I sent you a pm earlier, hope you are doing well, love and prayers always!
Im_convincedmjalive- thanks for the post and links......awesome info!
To all a good night!
Blessings Always!
LOVE
-
Welcome back, TS. I pray that storms are weathered and all that's good gets better for you and yours.
I don't know if the FBI of today is vastly different from the FBI of Hoover's time. I will be trying to understand that, if at all possible. Hoover was FBI director for 50 years. It's interesting to see the history of the Bureau in Hollywood under Hoover and how it related to Chaplin, Disney, Elvis and John Lennon (see below.) I guess it can be surmised that the FBI can be for/with you, or it can be against you, or it can be for you and against you simultaneously. It is a cautionary tale.
I would assume that these days, there is still the "old school" mindset alongside a more cooperative, contemporary and community-oriented "new school" of thought. Perhaps from this springs the Faction I and Faction II discussed previously on the forum. (and maybe there's a III and IV...) <!-- m -->http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/ar ... read=41807 (http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=41807)<!-- m -->
One question or even hypothesis I have from reading this information is whether Michael was assisted by the FBI in one way, but restricted by them in another. The information about Walt Disney is instructive pertaining to this. I never forget Michael's Killer Thriller speech when he says, "they didn't know I would outthink them? Who is "them"???. I would like to see if it's possible to identify whether FBI is friend, foe or both.
In Elvis' case the FBI became friend, but like Michael, with such expansive and spiritual ways of viewing the world and Michael's concern to protect and empower humanity, would the Bureau have been pleased or concerned with Michael's global influence? I believe this would be an issue of what they consider national security.
==============================================================================
THE HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE
FBI Activities in Hollywood
Click on link to activate files and letters about Hollywood celebrities mentioned herein:
http://whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/PO ... elebs.html (http://whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/COINTELPRO/celebs.html)
Shortly after WW1, and before he became the head of the FBI, J. Edgar Hoover spent some time in Hollywood, urging film makers to curtail certain kinds of film making which he felt did not serve the best interests of the country. In particular, Hoover did not like the films of Charles Spencer Chaplin which tended to show people in authority abusing their power, maltreating common people, and eventually being made to look ridiculous. It was a Chaplin trademark; one which Hoover felt fostered a disrespect for authority in the general population.
Chaplin not only ignored Hoover's entreaties, but made fun of him, and when Hoover ascended to the head of the FBI, he made Chaplin pay for his earlier insults, and was instrumental in having Charlie kicked out of the United States.
Hoover was also quite eager to use his new authority to bring Hollywood into line with what Hoover thought was their proper role in society (propaganda organ for the government) and while Senator McArthy grabbed the headlines, Hoover was busy behind the scenes recruiting various people to inform on each other and factionalizing the Hollywood community so that it could not resist him.
One interesting story from those days relates to famed animator Walt Disney who had earlier on asked for Hoover's help in locating his real birth parents, little realizing the price Hoover would make him pay later. During the McCarthy hysteria, Hoover asked Walt Disney to report on anyone that might be a communist. Walt actually did on so on at least one occasion, yielding to what must have been an overwelming temptation.
Years ealier, Walt Disney had been teamed up with another animator named Walter Lantz, and together they produced a cartoon named "Oswald The Rabbit", created by Disney. But when their partnership dissolved, somehow Walter Lantz retained ownership of Oswald. On the long train ride home, Walt Disney sketched himself a small rodent with big ears and rubber hose arms and legs and named him "Mortimer Mouse". Following a slight name change by Walt Disney's wife, the new Disney star was born, and Disney became a household name. Walter Lantz went on to create his own star, "Woody Woodpecker".
When Hoover approached Disney to be an informant, Walt was hardly sympathetic. His studio had been stiffed on the payment for several training films produced for the Army during WW2. But the opportunity to "get" the man who stole Oswald from him was too great, and Walt Disney named Walter Lantz to the House Committee on Un-American Activities. That was Walt Disney's fatal mistake.
From that day on, using the threat to expose what Walt Disney had done, Hoover was able to blackmail Walt Disney and then later the Disney company itself into cooperation with several FBI operations, including a phony riot at the Anaheim park staged to discredit the anti-Vietnam movement, carried out on orders from the Nixon White House and revealed during Congressional hearings into COINTELPRO in the 70s. Following that riot, Disney management, worried that word of their involvement might leak out and lead to attempts at retaliation, instituted a short hair hiring policy designed to keep "hippies" from seeking employment at the park. That short hair policy remained in effect until a lawsuit in the 1980s brought it to an end.
Hoover's interest (indeed obsession) with Hollywood remained in full force, and countless operations were undertaken to spy on, and in some cases to destroy, various Hollywood celebrities.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The FBI's Public Image
Hoover took great interest in just how the FBI was portrayed in the movies, and later in television. During the making of "The FBI Story" starring Jimmy Stewert, Hoover was on the set every day directing the director as to how to make the film. Despite such ham-handed interference, Jimmy Stewert turned in a marvelous performance in the small amount of room the character was allowed.
Even when not personally supervising films about the FBI, a close watch, and sometimes direct intervention was taken in any film that referenced the FBI, no matter how slight.
Returning to the Disney lot, the following two pages, courtesy of The Smoking Gun reveal FBI concern over the movie,"That Darned Cat" and it's portrayal of the FBI.
When Paramount Pictures produced,"Skidoo", starring Jacie Gleason, it featured a single scene in which Gleason's character is seen fleeing a building marked,"FBI" carrying a file cabinet on his back. That one single scene prompted the following four page memo.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The FBI's "Celebrity Watch".
When not actually interfering with movies, the FBI spied on celebrities.
Shortly before his untimely death, Elvis was still being spied upon by the FBI, who noted in the following memo that Elvis was using dangerous amounts of drugs. The FBI might have intervened to prevent Elvis's death, but chose not to do so.
Finally, no single celebrity filled the government with more fear than did ex-Beatle John Lennon. Lennon's popularity, and hence his ability to influence popular opinion, coupled with his strong anti-war stance, made him a real threat in the event the United States decided it had to go to war. For this reason, Lennon was one of the most watched celebrities, and according to Lennon's youngest son, the victim of a government assassination plot.
-
TIME is a big problem . I would be sooooo grateful to you all if you could shorten the long posts to essential because I really want to get to read ALL your ideas, please.
-
I appreciate all posts of any length. I am here to learn and share. TS has had many long posts that I have found quite useful. Feel free to skip or skim long posts if you don't have time to read them. Members should be able to post what they feel the need to and not be restricted by an individual's preferences.
-
Good to see you back TS. :)
Is the objection this one?
Kristina4LOVE has said: "The problem that i have with FBI is that they are by far not the almighty law enforcement. Here is why:
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/faqs (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/faqs)"
Yes I think this is the objection.
I don't know very much about who controls who in a country but in theory every public institution, no matter is the government , the parliament, agencies or even secret services must be under the control of another public institution.
But as I don't trust things in reality go like in theory, I would go further and say this institutional system is for the masses to believe that there is a law and an order.
In my opinion this is just the facade, the part that is destined for the masses to see and believe.
Who really controls ALL the systems is not for us to know. Well, I'm really a believer of what they say that it's not important who votes, but who counts the votes.
and that how I connect Michael with the powers who stay in the shadow :mrgreen: whoever they might be, I have no idea.
-
I appreciate all posts of any length. I am here to learn and share. TS has had many long posts that I have found quite useful. Feel free to skip or skim long posts if you don't have time to read them. Members should be able to post what they feel the need to and not be restricted by an individual's preferences.
I didn't say I don't appreciate all the posts, it's just it would be very useful if people could sum up the essential. It's really frustrating when I don't have time to read them all.
-
SoldierofLOVE
One question or even hypothesis I have from reading this information is whether Michael was assisted by the FBI in one way, but restricted by them in another. The information about Walt Disney is instructive pertaining to this. I never forget Michael's Killer Thriller speech when he says, "they didn't know I would outthink them? Who is "them"???. I would like to see if it's possible to identify whether FBI is friend, foe or both.
In Elvis' case the FBI became friend, but like Michael, with such expansive and spiritual ways of viewing the world and Michael's concern to protect and empower humanity, would the Bureau have been pleased or concerned with Michael's global influence? I believe this would be an issue of what they consider national security.
On “the FBI activities in Hollywood"
Finally, no single celebrity filled the government with more fear than did ex-Beatle John Lennon. Lennon's popularity, and hence his ability to influence popular opinion, coupled with his strong anti-war stance, made him a real threat in the event the United States decided it had to go to war. For this reason, Lennon was one of the most watched celebrities, and according to Lennon's youngest son, the victim of a government assassination plot.
I remember every movie I watched growing up always portrayed the FBI as good and the ultimate protection of citizens. It was engrained in us. That alone makes me suspicious now --propaganda. I know when TS first suggested that the FBI was involved in the hoax, my first reaction was that I connected the FBI with big government, the CIA which especially after 911, I also connect to Israel, the Bilderbergs, the Illuminati and TPTB with a non-benevolent agenda.
This article almost makes it seem that the killer of Lennon may be connected with the FBI, I'm thinking as a mind-controlled assassin like a manchurian candidate. My past reading has led me to connect evil with the CIA, but I never read FBI mentioned until this.
I agree with you SoldierofLOVE, that it is unsure whether the FBI is friend or foe to Michael, and whether he is using them or they are using him. Perhaps that is also why this hoax is delicate, and the family had to be so insistent that MJ was dead and murdered in a conspiracy with higher power groups than just Murray.
Thanks for all the pertinent info everyone! Very interesting!
-
Kristina4LOVE has said: "The problem that i have with FBI is that they are by far not the almighty law enforcement. Here is why:
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/faqs (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/faqs)"
In my personal opinion they might make is seem that way...for example J Edgar he was the director for the FBI and he went beyond FBI jurisdiction.
Here is a quote from (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Edgar_Hoover (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Edgar_Hoover))
Presidents Harry Truman, John F. Kennedy, and Lyndon B. Johnson each considered dismissing Hoover as FBI Director, but all of them ultimately concluded that the political cost of doing so would be too great.
What I'm trying to say is the FBI itself might not have the power of authority but certain people within the FBI do...those with political connections etc...if MJ had connection with someone high up in the FBI a lot of things would be possible.
On a side note...it's nice to have you back TS
-
SoldierofLOVE
One question or even hypothesis I have from reading this information is whether Michael was assisted by the FBI in one way, but restricted by them in another. The information about Walt Disney is instructive pertaining to this. I never forget Michael's Killer Thriller speech when he says, "they didn't know I would outthink them? Who is "them"???. I would like to see if it's possible to identify whether FBI is friend, foe or both.
In Elvis' case the FBI became friend, but like Michael, with such expansive and spiritual ways of viewing the world and Michael's concern to protect and empower humanity, would the Bureau have been pleased or concerned with Michael's global influence? I believe this would be an issue of what they consider national security.
On “the FBI activities in Hollywood"
Finally, no single celebrity filled the government with more fear than did ex-Beatle John Lennon. Lennon's popularity, and hence his ability to influence popular opinion, coupled with his strong anti-war stance, made him a real threat in the event the United States decided it had to go to war. For this reason, Lennon was one of the most watched celebrities, and according to Lennon's youngest son, the victim of a government assassination plot.
I remember every movie I watched growing up always portrayed the FBI as good and the ultimate protection of citizens. It was engrained in us. That alone makes me suspicious now --propaganda. I know when TS first suggested that the FBI was involved in the hoax, my first reaction was that I connected the FBI with big government, the CIA which especially after 911, I also connect to Israel, the Bilderbergs, the Illuminati and TPTB with a non-benevolent agenda.
This article almost makes it seem that the killer of Lennon may be connected with the FBI, I'm thinking as a mind-controlled assassin like a manchurian candidate. My past reading has led me to connect evil with the CIA, but I never read FBI mentioned until this.
I agree with you SoldierofLOVE, that it is unsure whether the FBI is friend or foe to Michael, and whether he is using them or they are using him. Perhaps that is also why this hoax is delicate, and the family had to be so insistent that MJ was dead and murdered in a conspiracy with higher power groups than just Murray.
Thanks for all the pertinent info everyone! Very interesting!
Chapman was ex-military, so it wouldn't seem too out there to think that way. I do.
-
Now we're waiting for TS to BAM?!? :lol: Hope everything is fine with TS though. It would be great if he could inform us about what's going on with him, at least if he's ok or not.
BAM! :lol:
Sorry I have been away for a couple of weeks, but things are a little better now. However, I still won't be here every day; probably only once or twice a week.
Good news: it's about time for a new level, however there is one unanswered objection to FBI involvement: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=1050#p321369
LMAO, we had a BAM! I can die in peace now :lol: Good to have you back TS, looks like we can get back on topic!
I think the biggest problem is that most of the people on here do not know what the FBI is capable of, and we can only assume what is going on behind closed doors. My assumption is that a team is investigating very high profile people, which makes me think they do not report what they have to report. I also can't seem to find the guidelines of a sting operation. I know it has to approved, I came that far, but I did not find anything about reporting to the President or now to the Director of National Intelligence. I can imagine, when looking at previous operations, that not everything is reported as long as the investigation is on-going. There has been a major sting operation against congress, I think they kept that pretty secret as well. And what if they would have a sting operation against the FBI director for example? In that case I think the team should be able to keep him out. I am not saying there is an investigation against the FBI director, not at all, I am just pointing out that the FBI has ways to go around the system. Otherwise an FBI Director would be untouchable. I hope I explained that in an understandable way.
We also don't know when this started. I did see two things that might be interesting. Freeh, the previous director of FBI, acquired Italian citizenship in october 2009 and the term of the present director of FBI, Mueller, ends on July 5, 2011. Might not have anything to do with all this, but I thought it was interesting nevertheless. Freeh was the lead prosecutor in the Pizza connection case in the 80's, where many Sicilian organized crime members were put behind bars, so Italy seems like a strange choice to me. Mueller's religion is Episcopalian, which means he is against slavery and racism and pro equal rights. That is at least what I read on Wiki about this religion, I am not familiar with it.
Point is, I think a lot can be done by the FBI and I think they are pretty able to keep things in the closet, but that's really just assumption because I have too little knowledge about the FBI and stings.
Was that your point TS?
Here is an article about the sting against members of congress:
Abscam – The FBI Sting Operation Against Congress
ABSCAM was the codename given to an FBI sting operation in 1980. The operation was an investigation into several senators and corruption in Congress.
Two FBI agents posed as fictitious sheiks who would attempt, and succeed in bribing several members of Congress to protect investments and to unlawfully assist in immigration efforts. The whole operation spanned almost two years and had a final bill of almost $800,000.
First Sting Operation
The first of the two FBI agents central to the sting operation played Sheik Kambir Abdul Rahman and was responsible for bribing several members of Congress.
First up was Sen. Angelo Errichetti. ‘Rahman’ was able to bribe him with $400,000 in exchange for protecting the Sheik’s supposed investments in a Camden sea port and an Atlantic City casino.
The above sting would eventually lead to Sen. Harrison Williams being listed as a potential corrupt politician after his dealings with Errichetti. He was also targeted in a sting operation and was filmed accepting vast quantities of cash as well.
Both of these operations were conducted on a large yacht acquired by the FBI. It was kitted out with cameras and bugs to pick up the meetings, which would eventually be used as evidence during the ensuing prosecutions.
Second Sting Operation
The second operation would result in several members of congress being filmed accepting bribes in return for helping sheik Yasser Habib (the second undercover FBI agent) to gain a green card so he could live permanently in the US.
Each individual operation was almost identical. The FBI had acquired a house which would act as the sheik’s residence. They thoroughly bugged the house and had hidden cameras to capture the meetings.
Several members of Congress would then meet with the undercover FBI agent and accept bribes in return for influencing his green card application.
The camera technology was not very advanced at the time and needed huge amounts of light in order to be effective. Luckily, the FBI passed this off with a cover story that the ‘sheik’ liked plenty of lights overhead to remind him of the desert sun of his home country.
The senators who were caught in this phase of the sting, all from the Republican party, were:
● Rep. Frank Thompson
● Rep. Raymond Lederer
● Rep. Michael Myers
● Rep. John Murphy
● Rep. John W. Jenrette
● Rep. Richard Kelly
Each of them accepted various amounts of money and down payments in exchange for favors.
Sting Operation Turns Up a Hero
However, one person, Senator Murtha, who the FBI thought was corrupt turned out to be the opposite. He was led to the house upon the promise of a political donation. When the sheik said he didn’t know what such a donation entailed but wanted to give him money anyway, the senator backed out.
When the prosecutions came to light, the senator was reported to have said “I find it somewhat repulsive that I’m on tape, but now I’m called a hero. It’s a sad state of affairs when it’s heroic to turn down a potential bribery situation.”
The investigation was brought to an end in February of 1980 when various media outlets caught wind of it and decided to run with the story.
Eventually, seven of those politicians under investigation would be given prison sentences ranging from one to five years. They were also fined between $10,000 – $50,000 each.
http://www.topsecretwriters.com/2011/01 ... -congress/ (http://www.topsecretwriters.com/2011/01/abscam-the-fbi-sting-operation-against-congress/)
-
~Souza~ wrote:
LMAO, we had a BAM! I can die in peace now Goodto have you back TS, looks like we can get back on topic!
I have to laugh with this <!-- s:lol: --> :lol: <!-- s:lol: -->
-
Souza wrote: I also can't seem to find the guidelines of a sting operation. I know it has to approved, I came that far, but I did not find anything about reporting to the President or now to the Director of National Intelligence.
Now that you say it, i remember a video that public TMZ of Jermaine in Washington, what he said in the video if i am not mistaken is that he was going to "talk with the president " to make a statue to Michael
-
Dear applehead sending you hugs I really can imagine how you feel it must be too much for you to handle. i really think you should take time for yourself and your family I have sensed your breakdown coming in your last few posts. I hope for your brother to feel better soon...maybe talk to him and try to see what's wrong, sometimes it just takes that you share your feelings with someone to feel better (like you did just now ;) ) Michael knows you love him don't feel guilty of anything and don't apologize because WE LOVE YOU TOO and love is without condition (hugs).
Hello applehead...I agree with Sarahli, you really do need to take some time for yourself and your family! No one on here should be "neglecting" their family life, or losing sleep, or letting this hoax effect them to this degree! We all need to remember that our own lives are the only lives we have control over and if your personal life is suffering in any way, you really need to take a step back and re-examine what is really important...YOU!! I'm sure Michael would want you to look after yourself first and foremost, (although I am not claiming I know what Michael wants)the hoax will continue on it's path, even though we may to take breaks from time to time. So go and take some time for yourself and your family and know that we all love you, and I personally will be praying for you and your family! I'm so sorry you are having some issues, but think positive and know that everything will work out in the end... and it will!
I'm sending you some very positive energy applehead! Keep your chin up and know that you are Loved! Blessings and light to you also dear friend! I Love you! God Bless!! <3
-
Hello GINAFELICIA!!!
Believe me that I know what you mean.I neglected my family also and after 2 years I've started to have big problems with my eyes.My job is with computes also ,so can you imagine <!-- s:( --> :( <!-- s:( --> .I like very much this adventure but like ITS HER said family comes first.Also don't forget what Latoya said in 2009:for Michael family is first then the second are the fans,so for me it's prettey clear.Because of the ecomonic crise ,on my country alot of people are loosing their jobs,and soon I think I will loose mine <!-- s:cry: --> :cry: <!-- s:cry: --> ,so this means I will have to leave this site and the HOAX also.My brother has emotional problems or a depresion and he is drinking also <!-- s:cry: --> :cry: <!-- s:cry: --> .He was in England to work and now he is back .I have to put my life in order and try to help him ,together with my mother.
I would like so much to spent more time here ,because I discovered so many things about this hoax but my time is limited now .I have so many things to share with you my friends ,but like I said my family is first.Michael is very special for me,like for all of us,because of him I can go on in this life,and his music is like a medicine for me .
I APOLOGISE AND PLEASE TRY TO FORGIVE ME FOR THIS CONFESSION HERE ON THIS TOPIC, BUT I HAD TO DO THIS.You,My MJ FAMILY are the ony ones who I can tell this,because I feel I'm loosing my mind <!-- s:cry: --> :cry: <!-- s:cry: --> .
Again I apologise.BYE
IT'S ALL FOR LOVE!!!
I know what you mean, it's a mess here where we live, the financial crises didn't reach its low, people still lose their jobs and we all are in danger, financially speaking .
Please don't worry, there's a little left of the worst, no depression lasts forever.
I don't know how "crippled" we'll be after it, in the meantime we have to survive and better days will come I hope.
My job also keeps me in front of the computer 9-10 hours a day, it's not healty, I know. We must find time to go to the gym or to take a walk or something.
I think nothing very important will happen till the trial so maybe we should do what TS is doing: being here once a week.
-
I'm wondering now if TS will entirely stop posting in this thread and let it fizzle out, but it does appear that he reads generally and takes excerps from all over. I don't know how he has the time to do all that reading (maybe speed reader and photographic memory) 8-) . But if you're reading TS, I so much appreciate you being here (not only brilliant but kind to us in our attempts, and funny :mrgreen: ) and have come to really trust your indepth knowledge of Michael's situation and heart. We're all afraid of being duped by super-clever trolls. Every now and then attempts by some try to find your achilles' heel but you have survived them all and seem to be only warming up for the spectacular show that's building before our eyes. I'm so glad you're here!
if the fbi is involved then what ever is goin on might be international. notice the phrase that is constantly repeated "all over the world" by joe and michael himself many times. just a thought
Don't forget Akon's quote,
Akon told MTV News that it was an incredible privilege to work with the King of Pop. He said: "Just to be in the same room [with him], I felt everything I wanted to accomplish in life has been achieved. That aura... that's how incredible that aura is. We about to shake the world up, man. You know how you be with somebody and you can't even explain [the feeling]? I used to sit and think, 'How does somebody sell so many records and dominate a whole business genre to a point [where] nobody can't be a part of that without associating with you?' The way he thinks - some artists think regional, some think national, I was thinking international. He thinks planets. It's on another level."
Just thinking about the discussion on Arnold Schwarzennegger and an article I just read in my current issue of (Can) Macleans.
(http://macleans.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/p__0002_layer-7.jpg?w=250&h=356)
http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/04/13/the- ... -lives-on/ (http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/04/13/the-governator-lives-on/)
The Governator lives on
He’s no longer California governor, but Arnold Schwarzenegger seems to be everywhere these days
by Jane Switzer on Wednesday, April 13, 2011 12:22pm - 0 Comments
When Arnold Schwarzenegger stepped down as governor of California in January after nearly eight years in office, he made Hollywood a promise: he’ll be back. Now, the actor-turned-politician is teaming up with Marvel Comics legend Stan Lee to create The Governator, a children’s comic book and television series featuring Schwarzenegger’s crime-fighting alter ego. The Governator will battle the evil G.I.R.L.I.E. Men (Gangsters, Imposters, Racketeers, Liars and Irredeemable Ex-cons) with the help of a uniquely talented teenage quartet, including Zeke Muckerberg, a 13-year-old computer genius inspired by Facebook co-founder Mark Zuckerberg.
Political pundits first nicknamed Schwarzenegger “the Governator”—a play on his popular Terminator movies—when he ran for office in 2003. Though sometimes used negatively by critics, Schwarzenegger told Entertainment Weekly he’s fond of the moniker: “When I ran for governor back in 2003 and I started hearing people talking about ‘the Governator,’ I thought the word was so cool,” he says. “The word ‘Governator’ combined two worlds: the world of politics and the movie world. And [the comic] brings everything together.”
Since leaving the governor’s Sacramento mansion, Schwarzenegger has maintained a presence on the international political scene. While en route to Cannes last week, the long-time Republican met with British Prime Minister David Cameron and addressed Conservative MPs before attending former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev’s star-studded 80th birthday party at Royal Albert Hall.
Schwarzenegger also used his most recent U.K. trip to make amends with London Mayor Boris Johnson. The pair had a falling out in 2007 when Schwarzenegger was heard whispering to his aides about Johnson “fumbling all over the place” as he waited to address a Tory conference via video link. The clip went viral; Johnson dismissed Schwarzenegger as a “monosyllabic Austrian cyborg.” Now, Schwarzenegger and Johnson discussed teaming up for a promotional campaign aimed at boosting sports participation leading up to the 2012 Olympics. The two also took a lunchtime bike ride to promote Barclays Cycle Hire, a bicycle sharing scheme informally known as “Boris bikes.”
The environment continues to be a passion for Schwarzenegger, who won praise for his efforts to reduce California’s carbon emissions during his time as governor. Though critics chastised him for lacking a coherent economic plan and failing to address the state’s housing crisis, he pushed through two bills creating the first U.S. cap on greenhouse gas emissions as part of a plan to reduce California’s emissions by 25 per cent by 2020.
With several fresh scripts on his desk, Schwarzenegger told the Financial Times he’s also ready to develop a number of entertainment projects: “At the same time, I will continue doing policy stuff, environmental stuff, trying to move the U.S. to an energy policy for the future,” he said, denying the desire to trade his new-found superhero status for a mundanely mortal desk job. “I’m not interested in a job in Washington… but I’m more than happy to help.”
-
Guys, I just wanted to know if anyone heard of INTERPOL. Another thing that I want to know is this. If teh FBI kept files on Michael Jackson, would they not keep files on the people that he knows personally , ie Elizabeth Taylor. Did she not at one point dated a Sheik? You want is so interesting is that in the begininng of this whole scenario of june 2009, they had many of the major depts involved especially the DEA. It was talked about briefly about the abuse of prescription drugs and about putting specific drugs on the Control Substance List. That story died down pretty quick. Someone or Somebodies or rather many bodies are making money off of the Celebrities in Hollywood. We all have to remember that Michael internationally known. He knows people in very high places around the world. At any point of time they will be willing to lend a helping hand. I may not said it before but many people consider Michael a very powerful person and are very frighten of him. Michael has a greater pull on the entire humna population that any person in the world. It does not matter what country or who the leader is of that country. The FBI thought Mr. Lennon was very powerful,that was until Mr. Michael Jackson came along and now it is a whole new playing field. The difference between Michael and Mr. Lennon is that Michael has a lot of international influential friends.
-
... And have seen this video, look at the bodyguards yeesssssss,
! All went well!! <!-- s:lol: -->:lol:<!-- s:lol: -->
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMpvJI33Vn8[/youtube]
-
... And have seen this video, look at the bodyguards yeesssssss,
! All went well!! <!-- s:lol: -->:lol:<!-- s:lol: -->
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMpvJI33Vn8[/youtube]
Wow i've never seen this video before <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> How did they get this shot of bodyguards?????
-
Hi TS. You want us to go back in time :mrgreen: ?