Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators

Latest News => The Redirects => TIAI => The Plan (Qanon, TIAI, BACK) => TIAI ~ 2011 => Topic started by: TS_comments on March 09, 2011, 05:33:18 AM

Title: TIAI March 9
Post by: TS_comments on March 09, 2011, 05:33:18 AM
(http://www.fungiftideas.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Graduation.jpg)

First of all, congratulations to everyone—you have been doing an excellent job on the 2-26 thread investigation!   :)   Second, today is graduation; it’s now time to take this investigation to the next level.   :o  8-)   Third, today is March 9—which is the two year anniversary of the amazing bull market rally that is still going, and which I related to God and the hoax a year ago in Update #4 (4-33).   :shock:   Fourth, speaking of update #4, that was my most detailed numerology post; and #4a was posted one year ago today (CA time), which was six months after 9-9-09.   :geek:   And fifth, speaking of numerology, it’s now time to start looking at how numerology unlocks and explains some of the hows of the hoax (in addition to explaining the when and why, which I have already discussed in great detail).

The next level means that we are now going to shift the focus from the ambulance picture (whether it was real or fake, etc) to whether or not some or all of the paramedics are in on the hoax.  Did the actual paramedics pose for a staged ambulance shot before 6-25-09?  Or did MJ use actors dressed like paramedics?  Was the ambulance photo staged with the actual #71 LAFD ambulance, or another one that looks about the same inside?  Would the real paramedics publicly deny the ambulance photo, if it was not them in the picture (and they were not in on the hoax)?

These and similar questions are now the focus of investigation.  Yes, we have already discussed these things to some extent; but it has not been the focus before now.  You may continue discussing the ambulance photo, if you want; and please keep that discussion in the proper thread {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053)}.

Of course the ambulance photo is part of the evidence related to the paramedics, so the photo will still be discussed somewhat in this thread; but try to remember the focus of discussion in this thread.  When it’s time to graduate again, I will start another thread with the focus of who or what (if anything) went to the hospital on the stretcher in the ambulance.  We might need to discuss this a little now, but it’s not the focus yet; so let’s see what we can establish about the paramedics, before we focus on that aspect.

In the previous thread, I mentioned that it’s good to have at least two or more strong evidences pointing to the same conclusion; and we now have at least four strong points, indicating that the ambulance photo is fake—even after some (including me) have tried to play unbeliever, and debunk whatever we can.  Here are those four strong points, with links to some of the evidence.  People are still welcome to try and debunk them if they can; but please read at least the information in the links below, before trying to debunk them.

#1. Ben’s slip: “Chris, and the other people that were there that day and the other d---- and uhhh, and uhhh ----”
{http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&start=350#p309886 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&start=350#p309886); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&start=600#p311109 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&start=600#p311109)}.

#2. In the video of the ambulance, the monitor/screen is clearly on {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o-yZt7yERk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o-yZt7yERk)}.  In the photo, the monitor/screen is not on {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310867&#p310867 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310867&#p310867)}.

#3. The shadows on the red car in the video do not match the shadows on the red car in the photo {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310880&#p310880 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310880&#p310880); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310880&#p310901 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310880&#p310901)}.

#4. The paramedics did not recognize MJ; they said it looked like an old man, maybe a hospice patient {http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/27/paramedics-jackson-dead-when-we-arrived/ (http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/27/paramedics-jackson-dead-when-we-arrived/); http://www.tmz.com/2011/01/11/michael-jackson-doctor-conrad-murray-preliminary-hearing-trial-witness-propofol-death-week1/ (http://www.tmz.com/2011/01/11/michael-jackson-doctor-conrad-murray-preliminary-hearing-trial-witness-propofol-death-week1/)}.  This report of the paramedics does not fit with the face we see in the ambulance photo.  If the paramedics are in on the hoax, and what they said was scripted: then the ambulance photo is fake, one way or another.  And if the paramedics are not in on the hoax, then what they said was true—and does not fit with what we see in the ambulance photo, which would still mean that it is fake {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309760&#p309760 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309760&#p309760)}.  Either way, then (paramedics in on it or not): the photo is fake; so the only question is what method was used to make the phony photo.

The first three of these four points listed above indicate that the photo was planned and staged in advance, rather than merely editing MJ’s face into a photo that was actually taken through the ambulance window on 6-25-09.  This is why I started our investigation process with the ambulance photo; now we know that it was planned and staged in advance, so we have a good platform upon which we can build our next level of investigation.

Please remember to use common sense, in addition to forensic investigation and raw data analysis.  For example: if the ambulance photo was staged before 6-25-09, why bother bringing the ambulance to Carolwood Drive—just to take a photo of things inside the ambulance?  Why not stage the photo elsewhere, and indoors, where there would be a very low risk of the wrong people seeing what is going on?  Also keep in mind the goals of the hoax; common sense should tell us that the only ones in on the hoax are those who need to know about it, in order to accomplish the goals.  Why would MJ spend tons of money—and greatly increase the risk of someone letting the cat out of the bag too soon—just to have dozens or hundreds of people in on the hoax, who don’t need to be in on it?

Finally, just like last time, I may play “DA” (devil's advocate)—and try to debunk things that are true, just to keep you on your toes!  Enjoy the ride!!
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: 2good2btrue on March 09, 2011, 06:19:12 AM
Thanks for the new information TS.

There had to be a real ambulance at Carolwood Dve, to help start the illusion....

I don't believe the ambos are part of the deception....mainly because they are real ambos and swore on the bible...in court.  If that didn't happen, then maybe I would change my mind about that.  And the less people know, the better.

Isn't Chris Weiss a paramedic??  Maybe he had some connections in the industry, or

there was a real body, but just not Michaels..
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Adi on March 09, 2011, 06:25:31 AM
One of the main things about the ambulance officers in these series of photos is that we never see their faces. They are always turned away from the camera. Also - between the series of photos their bodies barely, if at all, move.

If this really is a series of legitimate photos of ambo officers trying to rescue a dying person it is completely odd that their hand, arm and body positions barely seem like they move  (eg. the ambo officer holding the breathing bag or whatever it is...his hand/arm seems like it hasn't moved in any of the photos..nor the other ambulance guy with his 1 hand  :shock:  on MJ's chest...more like almost his neck....it's not even moving up and down between the pics) however, parts of the background, reflections, interior move in relation to the officers. It is like the ambo officers are static and everything is moving around them....I won't even go into that swirling whirlpool above which the seated ambo officer is hovering...looks like he is about to be sucked into it any minute :lol:

If these were real photos of real ambulance officers in full view surely at LEAST ONE of the ambo officers would be captured looking at their patient in at least in ONE of the photos anyway???

I think they are hiding their faces for a reason...they don't want us to recognise which actors they are.....not yet anyway  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: mdc on March 09, 2011, 07:16:59 AM
I guess if you want to determine if it's the actual #71 ambulance or just one that looks almost like it we could start back with the cabinets that don't appear to match. The white/silver trim around the cabinet in the video is not seen in the ambulance photo.
Screen cap from video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMB5gfcVChg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMB5gfcVChg)
[attachment=1:27fsolv8]ambulance cabinet.jpg[/attachment:27fsolv8]

Crop from ambulance2 photo:
[attachment=0:27fsolv8]Ambulance2crop.jpg[/attachment:27fsolv8]
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: VeryLittleSusie on March 09, 2011, 07:20:06 AM
(http://www.bittenandbound.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/ambulance-arrives-at-hospital-with-michael-jackson.jpg)
(http://www.buzzchow.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/michael-jackson-hospital-385x386.jpg)

(http://www.cayman27.com.ky/app/webroot/files/t1home_michael_jackson_hospital_x17.jpg)


On these photos - MJ on the stretcher entering the hospital - we can se at least 2 paramedics in dark blue suits....  :?
And i guess Murray is there in the white T-shirt...

I think that all these footage was staged before and handed over to the press/television as the finished material. It was not filmed by CNN as far as I know... (I might be wrong)
They could have easily film it before June 25 and then send it to the media to publish.  Nowadays, nobody bothers to verify the material, we can observe the copy-paste journalism in bloossom...
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: TS_comments on March 09, 2011, 07:22:32 AM
Quote from: "2good2btrue"
Thanks for the new information TS.

There had to be a real ambulance at Carolwood Dve, to help start the illusion....

Yes, if you mean on 6-25-09.  However, my statement was referring to a staged photo before 6-25-09.  Here is my statement again: "For example: if the ambulance photo was staged before 6-25-09, why bother bringing the ambulance to Carolwood Drive [before 6-25-09]—just to take a photo of things inside the ambulance?"
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Andrea on March 09, 2011, 07:57:13 AM
I do believe the ambulance photo was staged/taken before June 25th.

I think the reason there had to be an ambulance at Carolwood on June 25th was to help start the illusion as 2good2btrue said.  I'm wondering if the ambulance was backing so slowly out of the drive way because it was waiting for the starline tourbus to drive by....witnesses!!  As it was, the tourbus arrived probably on time to see the ambulance drive away, and the fire truck was still there.  I know someone had pointed out in another thread that the tourbus number was 17...and it was parked right beside the firetruck momentarily in the video, showing 71 and 17, I still think that's weird.  But, those in on the hoax would know that the people on the tourbus would undoubtedly have cameras/video cameras, providing further "proof" that something happened at Carolwood on June 25th.

The scene for the ambulance photo was set up and re-created, like it was actually happening right then and I don't think it's possible for the paramedics to NOT be in on it - they would have to be in my opinion.  They could be genuine paramedics but almost everyone in L.A. wants to be an actor, right? LOL.  So these guys sign a confidentiality agreement, to pose in the fake-in-some-way photo, and then later say at the prelim that they didn't recognize the patient as Michael, saying he looked like a hospice patient.  If the prelim wasn't actually real, then they're "sworn" testimony won't matter, they won't get in trouble, right?  I'm surprised that more people didn't catch on to that - the paramedics saying they didn't recognize MJ when you can clearly see in the photo that the patient does in fact resemble Michael.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: mjaliveomg on March 09, 2011, 08:10:20 AM
(http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/452/ambulancearrivesathospi.jpg) (http://img198.imageshack.us/i/ambulancearrivesathospi.jpg/)

its incridible how this guy looks like MJ...
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Terror2k10 on March 09, 2011, 08:17:59 AM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Quote from: "2good2btrue"
Thanks for the new information TS.

There had to be a real ambulance at Carolwood Dve, to help start the illusion....

Yes, if you mean on 6-25-09.  However, my statement was referring to a staged photo before 6-25-09.  Here is my statement again: "For example: if the ambulance photo was staged before 6-25-09, why bother bringing the ambulance to Carolwood Drive [before 6-25-09]—just to take a photo of things inside the ambulance?"
It would not make sense to take a chance and film it before out in the open,I have a belief that the DOME project has always played a bigger part in the hoax. Could this have been filmed in Culver studios before 6-25-09 ? The reason I bring up the Dome project is the only thing I ever heard in my life where people had to sign confidentiality agreements. Which could be why no one has let the cat out the bag.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: AnaMarcia on March 09, 2011, 09:24:12 AM
If Michael had an ambulance at Neverland and that the game has been planned a long time, then chances of this photo has been taken yet when Michael lived at Neverland.
Also, the paramedics need not be actors. Michael has always worked with many of them in their shows, so maybe they could be friends.
For friendship and love Michael, they could not have declined to participate in the fun. I'm only confused about the trial.
They could have declared a false testimony in front of a judge? :?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Elsa on March 09, 2011, 09:31:43 AM
Quote from: "VeryLittleSusie"
(http://www.bittenandbound.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/ambulance-arrives-at-hospital-with-michael-jackson.jpg)
(http://www.buzzchow.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/michael-jackson-hospital-385x386.jpg)

(http://www.cayman27.com.ky/app/webroot/files/t1home_michael_jackson_hospital_x17.jpg)

On these photos - MJ on the stretcher entering the hospital - we can se at least 2 paramedics in dark blue suits....  :?
And i guess Murray is there in the white T-shirt...

I think that all these footage was staged before and handed over to the press/television as the finished material. It was not filmed by CNN as far as I know... (I might be wrong)
They could have easily film it before June 25 and then send it to the media to publish.  Nowadays, nobody bothers to verify the material, we can observe the copy-paste journalism in bloossom...

VeryLittleSusie - You might be getting ahead of the game.  The ambulances don't match in the 'arriving at the hospital' scenes.  Look at the different rear doors and the yellow reflector behind the back wheel in the first photo -it isn't on the ambulance in the second photo.  I saw this online somewhere and had been looking for it.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: youngatheart on March 09, 2011, 10:18:18 AM
Quote from: "Elsa"
Quote from: "VeryLittleSusie"
(http://www.bittenandbound.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/ambulance-arrives-at-hospital-with-michael-jackson.jpg)
(http://www.buzzchow.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/michael-jackson-hospital-385x386.jpg)

(http://www.cayman27.com.ky/app/webroot/files/t1home_michael_jackson_hospital_x17.jpg)

On these photos - MJ on the stretcher entering the hospital - we can se at least 2 paramedics in dark blue suits....  :?
And i guess Murray is there in the white T-shirt...

I think that all these footage was staged before and handed over to the press/television as the finished material. It was not filmed by CNN as far as I know... (I might be wrong)
They could have easily film it before June 25 and then send it to the media to publish.  Nowadays, nobody bothers to verify the material, we can observe the copy-paste journalism in bloossom...

VeryLittleSusie - You might be getting ahead of the game.  The ambulances don't match in the 'arriving at the hospital' scenes.  Look at the different rear doors and the yellow reflector behind the back wheel in the first photo -it isn't on the ambulance in the second photo.  I saw this online somewhere and had been looking for it.


While I do agree that the reflector is missing in the photo it is not the only difference.  Look at the white striping across the side of the ambulance.  They are also different as well as the coloring of the rear doors.  Trying to debunk this, I would say that is caused by lighting and angle since you can see how the first and third pictures are much lighter than the second.  So IMO it would be the angle of the sun hitting the ambulance.

As for why there would be an ambulance at Carolwood on 6/25, I agree that it would have to be there to give credibility to the hoax.  I also believe that it could have been there and used as a diversionary tactic.  While all eyes were focused on Carolwood and the events unfolding there, Michael was free from prying eyes to get away unnoticed.

If you watch the video from that day it does not resonate as an emergency situation.  Everyone involved just seems too nonchalant , no sense of urgency at all.  

So to sum this up, I would definately say that these scenes that we were shown were all filmed before 6/25.  The paramedics were in on this and were probobaly actors or friends.  Everything was planned down to the smallest detail.

Love and Blessings
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: mdc on March 09, 2011, 10:23:07 AM
It's probably just an optical illusion with the angles and everything but the ambulance in the "proof" photo looks longer to me than the one at the hospital.
[attachment=1:3vb4ipp7]ambulance_4_proof_pic.jpg[/attachment:3vb4ipp7]
[attachment=0:3vb4ipp7]ambulance-arrives-at-hospital-with-michael-jackson.jpg[/attachment:3vb4ipp7]
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: steffymjlove on March 09, 2011, 10:49:35 AM
Quote from: "Adi"
One of the main things about the ambulance officers in these series of photos is that we never see their faces. They are always turned away from the camera. Also - between the series of photos their bodies barely, if at all, move.

If this really is a series of legitimate photos of ambo officers trying to rescue a dying person it is completely odd that their hand, arm and body positions barely seem like they move  (eg. the ambo officer holding the breathing bag or whatever it is...his hand/arm seems like it hasn't moved in any of the photos..nor the other ambulance guy with his 1 hand  :shock:  on MJ's chest...more like almost his neck....it's not even moving up and down between the pics) however, parts of the background, reflections, interior move in relation to the officers. It is like the ambo officers are static and everything is moving around them....I won't even go into that swirling whirlpool above which the seated ambo officer is hovering...looks like he is about to be sucked into it any minute :lol:

If these were real photos of real ambulance officers in full view surely at LEAST ONE of the ambo officers would be captured looking at their patient in at least in ONE of the photos anyway???

I think they are hiding their faces for a reason...they don't want us to recognise which actors they are.....not yet anyway  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


Yes LOL I agree, Adi!
It's soooo convenient that they would be seen on the street after June 25th.
That's why they turned away from the shot.
They were obviously either paid off or wanted to be envolved in the hoax in its entirety.
Which would be awesome and pretty bad ass by the way!
LOL! Yes we are in the twilight zone!
[youtube:3uhj4b6z]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnJSkN85vGc[/youtube:3uhj4b6z]

That would explain the swirl above the "EMT"

Hahaha.

REMEMBER
RESPECT
L.O.V.E

oV Peace
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: mdc on March 09, 2011, 10:53:19 AM
Also, in the hospital ambulance picture the "pinstripe" down the side looks like a two year old put it on whereas the stripes from the ambulance in this video are perfect (or they appear to be to me).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMB5gfcVChg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMB5gfcVChg)

Screen cap of pinstriping on side of ambulance:
[attachment=0:l25dfndp]ambulance pinstripe1.jpg[/attachment:l25dfndp]
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Yulia on March 09, 2011, 11:11:21 AM
It seem like this has all became a show made up by TS. I smell this is just a big show to entertain himself. Anyway I've never given a damn on it, either now, I just came upon the thread. It's without any logic. I wish people will understand what Michael says: Think by yourself.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: mdc on March 09, 2011, 11:12:42 AM
And maybe this light/reflector on ambulance from this video looks different...not as flat?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuXRaJFdmKU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuXRaJFdmKU)

[attachment=0:1hfv3y3c]ambulance light1.jpg[/attachment:1hfv3y3c]
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: taty_2crazy on March 09, 2011, 11:21:47 AM
Yes  the pic.from inside the ambulance could have been staged before June/25 ,using for it  a studio.The using of a real ambulance on 6/25  gives more credibility to the hoax because of the eye witnesses outside Carolwood and so begins the illusion . ;)   As to the paramedics,IMO they must be in it, but who knows.... :?:
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: paula-c on March 09, 2011, 11:54:05 AM
Quote
TS_comments wrote:

2good2btrue wrote:
Thanks for the new information TS.

There had to be a real ambulance at Carolwood Dve, to help start the illusion....

Yes, if you mean on 6-25-09. However, my statement was referring to a staged photo before 6-25-09. Here is my statement again: "For example: if the ambulance photo was staged before 6-25-09, why bother bringing the ambulance to Carolwood Drive [before 6-25-09]—just to take a photo of things inside the ambulance?"

that the staging of the paparazzi allegedly taking that picture, is really the only proof that Micahel died, no one has said with the exception of Karen Faye who saw the corpse of Michael
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: fordtocarr on March 09, 2011, 12:00:22 PM
In regards to the medics being real, that is a question I've always had.  Oh how I wish I lived out there so I could go and investigate personally while I'm off work!!  I've wondered if anyone was able to go to the station house and just look at the medics, try to find some traits we find in the pics.
Anyhow, this seems to have become the TS leadership place to go..so I'm saying thank you for pushing us into different directions while we await the hard times ahead with the trial.
I'm reading  the Trials of Michael Jackson right now and am in SHOCK as to the life Michael must've lived and am also getting a lot of new perspective as to perhaps what is going on NOW!
Thanks for your info and help..and Trusting you with your good faith :))
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: fordtocarr on March 09, 2011, 12:17:37 PM
Quote from: "fordtocarr"
In regards to the medics being real, that is a question I've always had.  Oh how I wish I lived out there so I could go and investigate personally while I'm off work!!  I've wondered if anyone was able to go to the station house and just look at the medics, try to find some traits we find in the pics.
Anyhow, this seems to have become the TS leadership place to go..so I'm saying thank you for pushing us into different directions while we await the hard times ahead with the trial.
I'm reading  the Trials of Michael Jackson right now and am in SHOCK as to the life Michael must've lived and am also getting a lot of new perspective as to perhaps what is going on NOW!
Thanks for your info and help..and Trusting you with your good faith :))

Also, I've read where there are two entrances to Carolwood, and perhaps there were two ambulances that day.  One at each entrances.  Maybe that's why the first one pulled out so slowly, to make sure the other was gone.  I also read where the other hospital there had the roads blocked off at the same time.  Maybe the other amb. went there?  Maybe the pics are valid and that was the "dummy" amb. to throw the paps off the other.  They were shopped for US to be thrown off.
Also, IS that Murray in the pic at the entrance of the hosp. because it don't look like him to me as any of the people?  He's very tall and I think would be taller than that man in white, which is closer to the camera and would even be taller than the others. It don't look to me as Murray was there.  Maybe he was in the amb..  the other one.

I don't know if this is too far off this "new thread" we are told to follow, but I wanted to get these questions in here before I forgot. :)))
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Do on March 09, 2011, 12:19:53 PM
Hi guys,
I'm not an avid reader of TS' posts (I truly apologize for that  :oops: ) so maybe I do not understand the value of this post, but my question is what's the use of trying to figure this all out? I thought that, now we are (hopefully) getting closer to a possible bam, there will be more important reasons to learn about this hoax. I feel that this post of TS does not add any important information, except the fact his dead really was fake. But we came to that conclusion a long time ago right? I haven't post much lately because I had the feeling we were running around in circles and I get that same feeling once again with this particular post. I hope someone can explain to me what's the reason for this post, what kind of information in it will help us to UNDERSTAND the hoax? Hugs
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: paula-c on March 09, 2011, 12:22:30 PM
the picture of the ambulance can not see the face of the paramedics, .. which he declared in court may be real or not paramedics
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on March 09, 2011, 12:23:05 PM
Quote from: TS_comments
(http://www.fungiftideas.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Graduation.jpg)

First of all, congratulations to everyone—you have been doing an excellent job on the 2-26 thread investigation!   <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->   Second, today is graduation; it’s now time to take this investigation to the next level.   <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o -->  <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->   Third, today is March 9—which is the two year anniversary of the amazing bull market rally that is still going, and which I related to God and the hoax a year ago in Update #4 (4-33).   <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: -->   Fourth, speaking of update #4, that was my most detailed numerology post; and #4a was posted one year ago today (CA time), which was six months after 9-9-09.   <!-- s:geek: -->:geek:<!-- s:geek: -->   And fifth, speaking of numerology, it’s now time to start looking at how numerology unlocks and explains some of the hows of the hoax (in addition to explaining the when and why, which I have already discussed in great detail).

The next level means that we are now going to shift the focus from the ambulance picture (whether it was real or fake, etc) to whether or not some or all of the paramedics are in on the hoax.  Did the actual paramedics pose for a staged ambulance shot before 6-25-09?  Or did MJ use actors dressed like paramedics? Was the ambulance photo staged with the actual #71 LAFD ambulance, or another one that looks about the same inside?  Would the real paramedics publicly deny the ambulance photo, if it was not them in the picture (and they were not in on the hoax)?

These and similar questions are now the focus of investigation.  Yes, we have already discussed these things to some extent; but it has not been the focus before now.  You may continue discussing the ambulance photo, if you want; and please keep that discussion in the proper thread {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053)}.

Of course the ambulance photo is part of the evidence related to the paramedics, so the photo will still be discussed somewhat in this thread; but try to remember the focus of discussion in this thread.  When it’s time to graduate again, I will start another thread with the focus of who or what (if anything) went to the hospital on the stretcher in the ambulance.  We might need to discuss this a little now, but it’s not the focus yet; so let’s see what we can establish about the paramedics, before we focus on that aspect.

In the previous thread, I mentioned that it’s good to have at least two or more strong evidences pointing to the same conclusion; and we now have at least four strong points, indicating that the ambulance photo is fake—even after some (including me) have tried to play unbeliever, and debunk whatever we can.  Here are those four strong points, with links to some of the evidence.  People are still welcome to try and debunk them if they can; but please read at least the information in the links below, before trying to debunk them.

#1. Ben’s slip: “Chris, and the other people that were there that day and the other d---- and uhhh, and uhhh ----”
{http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&start=350#p309886 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&start=350#p309886); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&start=600#p311109 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&start=600#p311109)}.

#2. In the video of the ambulance, the monitor/screen is clearly on {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o-yZt7yERk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o-yZt7yERk)}.  In the photo, the monitor/screen is not on {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310867&#p310867 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310867&#p310867)}.

#3. The shadows on the red car in the video do not match the shadows on the red car in the photo {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310880&#p310880 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310880&#p310880); http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310880&#p310901 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310880&#p310901)}.

#4. The paramedics did not recognize MJ; they said it looked like an old man, maybe a hospice patient {http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/27/paramedics-jackson-dead-when-we-arrived/ (http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/27/paramedics-jackson-dead-when-we-arrived/); http://www.tmz.com/2011/01/11/michael-jackson-doctor-conrad-murray-preliminary-hearing-trial-witness-propofol-death-week1/ (http://www.tmz.com/2011/01/11/michael-jackson-doctor-conrad-murray-preliminary-hearing-trial-witness-propofol-death-week1/)}.  This report of the paramedics does not fit with the face we see in the ambulance photo.  If the paramedics are in on the hoax, and what they said was scripted: then the ambulance photo is fake, one way or another.  And if the paramedics are not in on the hoax, then what they said was true—and does not fit with what we see in the ambulance photo, which would still mean that it is fake {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309760&#p309760 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309760&#p309760)}.  Either way, then (paramedics in on it or not): the photo is fake; so the only question is what method was used to make the phony photo.

The first three of these four points listed above indicate that the photo was planned and staged in advance, rather than merely editing MJ’s face into a photo that was actually taken through the ambulance window on 6-25-09.  This is why I started our investigation process with the ambulance photo; now we know that it was planned and staged in advance, so we have a good platform upon which we can build our next level of investigation.

Please remember to use common sense, in addition to forensic investigation and raw data analysis.  For example: if the ambulance photo was staged before 6-25-09, why bother bringing the ambulance to Carolwood Drive—just to take a photo of things inside the ambulance?  Why not stage the photo elsewhere, and indoors, where there would be a very low risk of the wrong people seeing what is going on?  Also keep in mind the goals of the hoax; common sense should tell us that the only ones in on the hoax are those who need to know about it, in order to accomplish the goals.  Why would MJ spend tons of money—and greatly increase the risk of someone letting the cat out of the bag too soon—just to have dozens or hundreds of people in on the hoax, who don’t need to be in on it?

Finally, just like last time, I may play “DA” (devil's advocate)—and try to debunk things that are true, just to keep you on your toes!  Enjoy the ride!!
Thank you for the next level. Right on time!  <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->

[youtube:2t24qanx]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgD4COfhrLU&feature=related[/youtube:2t24qanx]

I enlarged some text above that is in favor of my thinking on this subject so far. I am adding this video above as evidence. I believe that this show has clues in it. The fire captain is very suspect in my book. He seems to be acting. I think he is another key person. He would be the some of the paramedics in on it. I believe the picture was indeed shot on a different day, in a different ambulance and the paramedics in that fake picture are actors dressed in costume.  <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->

Side note: Everything that has been released to the public regarding this investigation is also biased and is meant to taint the public's opinion regarding Murray's innocence or guilt. Just like the media did to Michael in 1993 and 2005.

In the video above Ben is again talking about that day and the scene of the guy (shot through the gate) standing from a crouching position is once again being shown. Why that part again? I think there is a reason for that and it is to draw attention to that guy. Perhaps to get people wondering who the heck was that?

I do not believe the real paramedics (the ones that showed up that day and testified in court) would publicly deny the picture because of this:

<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310112#p310112 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310112#p310112)<!-- l -->

LAFD Capt. recalls Michael Jackson (MJ) events on June 25, 2009
[youtube:2t24qanx]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggewNtwvHJ4&feature=related[/youtube:2t24qanx]
<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309781#p309781 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309781#p309781)<!-- l -->
In this video the Captain is so precise on the time the 911 call was made. He even says it down to the seconds, lol
Quote from: mjaliveomg
(http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/452/ambulancearrivesathospi.jpg) (http://img198.imageshack.us/i/ambulancearrivesathospi.jpg/)

its incridible how this guy looks like MJ...
I agree, very suspect. I noticed that before when we were discussing the ambulance picture in TIAI 2/26 thread. Thank you for circling the guy.

<!-- m -->http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2 ... spita.html (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/01/michael-jackson-hearing-paparazzi-fans-hampered-paramedics-from-getting-stricken-pop-star-to-hospita.html)<!-- m -->
Quote
Michael Jackson hearing: Paparazzi, fans hampered paramedics from getting stricken pop star to hospital
January 6, 2011 | 10:58 am

A paramedic who tried in vain to save Michael Jackson’s life testified Thursday that an unruly crowd of paparazzi and tourists outside the pop star’s home hampered efforts to get to the hospital recalled Los Angeles City Fire Department paramedic Richard“It’s a circus out there. It’s unbelievable,”Richard Senneff of the scene outside Jackson’s Holmby Hills mansion June 25, 2009. 

The witness testified on the second day of testimony at a hearing to determine whether there is enough evidence to try Dr. Conrad Murray for involuntary manslaughter.

Senneff said that the ambulance driver had trouble navigating away from the residence because of a throng that included passengers of a tour bus and photographers with “big cameras, little cameras, video cameras, still cameras.”

At one point, a man with a video camera ran alongside the ambulance holding a camera with a large lens against the window. “It just seemed wrong,” he said. Under questioning by a defense lawyer, Senneff said Murray wanted to put a “central line” to restart Jackson’s heart, but that medics did not have equipment or training to do so.

He said the singer did not respond to two rounds of drugs to revive him and hospital officials told him over the radio to “call” Jackson’s death, but that neither he nor Murray wanted to do so. “I said, 'Be advised, this is a very high-profile VIP,' ” Senneff said.
u]. “I said, 'Be advised, this is a very high-profile VIP,' ” Senneff said.[/size]

The 50-year-old singer was pronounced dead at UCLA Medical Center. Senneff said rescue workers had gone “above and beyond” the call of duty in the field not because Jackson was a celebrity, but “because it was someone’s son.” Katherine Jackson, the singer’s mother, listened intently in the courtroom gallery. Judge Michael Pastor also heard from a second paramedic who, like Senneff, said that Murray initially claimed he had not given his patient any medication.

Martin Blount said the denial struck him as odd because he saw a hypodermic needle and three bottles of lidocaine in the room. Murray, he said, “scooped up” the bottles and placed them in a bag before they left for the hospital. “Did you ever see those bottles again,” Deputy Dist. Atty. David Walgren asked. “No, sir,” Blount replied. Murray, 57, has pleaded not guilty.

Prosecutors accuse Murray of an “extreme deviation” from the standard of medical care by, among other things, giving Jackson the surgical anesthetic propofol to treat insomnia.
Quote
I am posting this article to disprove the hoax regarding the theory/reason why the ambulance drove backwards and slowly. Paramedic Senneff gives the reason for that. Blame it on the fans and paps why they couldn't save Michael, shifting blame onto fans and paps will supposedly relieve him from any harm/blame to the King of Pop.  <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->  <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> He also gives credibility to Ben's pic by saying "At one point, a man with a video camera ran alongside the ambulance holding a camera with a large lens against the window."
 
I am also posting some questions that can be either pro hoax or against depending how the questions are answered.

Q-What would be considered going above and beyond the call of duty?

Q-Why didn't he (Senneff) want to call the time of death either even though the hospital told him to do so?

Q-How many paramedics were actually in that ambulance?

According to Senneff's testimony there was a driver, himself, and Blount. So that is 3 but only two testified?
Another point I want to add to this is that IF Michael/the patient was already DOA when the paramedics got to the house and they tried to do CPR there for a good amount of time; the ambulance would not need to be in a hurry when leaving because the patient is already gone.
To the airport! lol
<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309040#p309040 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309040#p309040)<!-- l -->
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: curls on March 09, 2011, 01:22:56 PM
To start with something pretty basic, I'd like to know if the paramedics that gave evidence at the prelim looked anything like the ones we see in the ambulance pic. Without their faces I realise that's hard, but if the court ones happened to be obviously very different e.g. big burly black men, then that would help!  Sinderella, if you're around, I have it in my mind that you knew someone who was in court who was giving you the info that you were so diligently posting for us (but I may have dreamed that!). Could they, or anyone else help us out here?

I'd also like to clarify how many paramedics there were. I always thought there was just the two until someone here said there were three. Only two gave evidence at the prelim.

Well that'll do for starters!
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: fordtocarr on March 09, 2011, 01:31:26 PM
Quote from: "curls"
To start with something pretty basic, I'd like to know if the paramedics that gave evidence at the prelim looked anything like the ones we see in the ambulance pic. Without their faces I realise that's hard, but if the court ones happened to be obviously very different e.g. big burly black men, then that would help!  Sinderella, if you're around, I have it in my mind that you knew someone who was in court who was giving you the info that you were so diligently posting for us (but I may have dreamed that!). Could they, or anyone else help us out here?

I'd also like to clarify how many paramedics there were. I always thought there was just the two until someone here said there were three. Only two gave evidence at the prelim.

Well that'll do for starters!
AND A DOCTOR.... No one mentions MURRAY was also in there and MURRAY took presidence being a physican, correct, as the tape eluded to of 911. a
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: mjaliveomg on March 09, 2011, 01:33:21 PM
ur welcome Im_convincedmjalive,

i did some comparisions with the paramedics on UCLA (the photo that i circled "MJ")

take a look on MJ hair on this photo
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_8WzVbskew5o/SMcqAa4FWmI/AAAAAAAAAu0/ih6zL8DkgWQ/s400/cabelo+curto.jpg)

 with sunglasses..take a look on his body

(http://michaeljoejacksonvivo.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/memo_michael_jackson_01_tra.jpg)

now take a good look again on the paramedic that i circled
(http://www.cayman27.com.ky/app/webroot/files/t1home_michael_jackson_hospital_x17.jpg)

the hair, the body and even the glasses are almost identical..Who would notice a paramedic when everyone thought that MJ was lying on the stretcher "dead"?  8-)

what do u think , TS :?:  :?:
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: wishingstar on March 09, 2011, 01:39:15 PM
Quote from: "mjaliveomg"
(http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/452/ambulancearrivesathospi.jpg) (http://img198.imageshack.us/i/ambulancearrivesathospi.jpg/)

its incredible how this guy looks like MJ...

It's funny that you posted this.....
I remember thinking this exact thing the first time I saw the photo.  I told a friend it would seem like Michael to play the part of his own paramedic on June 25.  Someone here wrote that Michael has the world so convinced he's dead, he could walk around and nobody would notice.  I wonder if that could really happen?    
Anyways......great post, thank you!
Have a wonderful day!
Blessings Always!
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: GodhaschosenMJ on March 09, 2011, 01:40:13 PM
Quote from: "Elsa"
Quote from: "VeryLittleSusie"
(http://www.bittenandbound.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/ambulance-arrives-at-hospital-with-michael-jackson.jpg)
(http://www.buzzchow.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/michael-jackson-hospital-385x386.jpg)

(http://www.cayman27.com.ky/app/webroot/files/t1home_michael_jackson_hospital_x17.jpg)

On these photos - MJ on the stretcher entering the hospital - we can se at least 2 paramedics in dark blue suits....  :?
And i guess Murray is there in the white T-shirt...

I think that all these footage was staged before and handed over to the press/television as the finished material. It was not filmed by CNN as far as I know... (I might be wrong)
They could have easily film it before June 25 and then send it to the media to publish.  Nowadays, nobody bothers to verify the material, we can observe the copy-paste journalism in bloossom...

VeryLittleSusie - You might be getting ahead of the game.  The ambulances don't match in the 'arriving at the hospital' scenes.  Look at the different rear doors and the yellow reflector behind the back wheel in the first photo -it isn't on the ambulance in the second photo.  I saw this online somewhere and had been looking for it.

First off I just wanted to say I've been reading along everyday, but haven't commented yet!! After seeing this today, I have to say I don't agree with you! I can see the reflector in every picture. It is not yellow but a darker red if you look carefully! Also the back doors are still striped, just washed out by bright light it looks to me like. So these reasons alone don't make them different in my opinion!
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MissG on March 09, 2011, 01:45:58 PM
Quote from: "TS_comments"

The next level means that we are now going to shift the focus from the ambulance picture (whether it was real or fake, etc) to whether or not some or all of the paramedics are in on the hoax.

Quote
Did the actual paramedics pose for a staged ambulance shot before 6-25-09?  Or did MJ use actors dressed like paramedics?
How is anyone supossed to know that? Is it relevant?, why?. May be those pramedics don´t even exist on the 1st place. They can be taken from another film or photo and placed in to the scene.

Quote
Was the ambulance photo staged with the actual #71 LAFD ambulance, or another one that looks about the same inside?
If the actual #71 is the one Tristan showed, the interiors photo/video did not match 100%.
Could have been the same ambulance but altered (by photoshop) for the final puplished pic.

Quote
Would the real paramedics publicly deny the ambulance photo, if it was not them in the picture (and they were not in on the hoax)?
In order to answer to that question we may be need to "find" who the "real" paramedics were.

Quote
Please remember to use common sense, in addition to forensic investigation and raw data analysis.  For example: if the ambulance photo was staged before 6-25-09, why bother bringing the ambulance to Carolwood Drive—just to take a photo of things inside the ambulance?

To atract attention to that spot, Carolwood Drive. May be in the mean time people were focusing in the on going circus, MJ could have been just vanishing sneaking through the backdoor or being somewhere else already.

 
Quote
Why not stage the photo elsewhere, and indoors, where there would be a very low risk of the wrong people seeing what is going on?
That ambo photo was not taken that day (we supose). What was shown in the video is a dramatization.

Quote
Also keep in mind the goals of the hoax

Oh! have we come to a conclusion of what are the goals of the hoax?

 
Quote
common sense should tell us that the only ones in on the hoax are those who need to know about it, in order to accomplish the goals.  Why would MJ spend tons of money—and greatly increase the risk of someone letting the cat out of the bag too soon—just to have dozens or hundreds of people in on the hoax, who don’t need to be in on it?
As I see it. We are the ones making the hoax as we talk. We don´t need to be in it but accidentally we are. This hoax evolves as our theories do. The 1st seed was planted (either by MJ and/or his team) and grew withing our imagination in one way or the other.

Back to the goals of the hoax, depends on the perspective we take and proyect towards who. I still don´t know the reasons but can see the "how come".
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: GodhaschosenMJ on March 09, 2011, 01:54:41 PM
Quote from: "mdc"
It's probably just an optical illusion with the angles and everything but the ambulance in the "proof" photo looks longer to me than the one at the hospital.
[attachment=1:kwy6yh4w]ambulance_4_proof_pic.jpg[/attachment:kwy6yh4w]
[attachment=0:kwy6yh4w]ambulance-arrives-at-hospital-with-michael-jackson.jpg[/attachment:kwy6yh4w]

Yes, I see what you mean, but it probably has to do with top picture being "stretched out" but not really longer! However I did "see" something that is possibly different and that is the rear upper side compartment door. Look at the seam of the door, it goes in front of the word Fire on the bottom pic, but appears to go through the letters/words on the top one. Make sense? I'm I seeing things? Is there a better clearer pic of the top abulance to show where the seam is? Never mind after looking again I think I can see the seam in the same place!! Oh well, I'm trying to find something different!! :lol:

I don't know why the pics didn't copy to my post since I used the quote button??  I will try to add the pics here:
Well, that didn't work either! Help! I've been here over a year and still don't know my way around in how to post stuff! So just go back to page one and look for mdc's post it will have the two pics I'm talking about! Sorry!!
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: wishingstar on March 09, 2011, 01:55:38 PM
Quote from: "2good2btrue"
Thanks for the new information TS.

There had to be a real ambulance at Carolwood Dve, to help start the illusion....

I don't believe the ambos are part of the deception....mainly because they are real ambos and swore on the bible...in court.  If that didn't happen, then maybe I would change my mind about that.  And the less people know, the better.

Isn't Chris Weiss a paramedic??  Maybe he had some connections in the industry, or

there was a real body, but just not Michaels..

Here is a VanityFair article that talks about Chris:
http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/featu ... rrentPage= (http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2009/07/michael-jackson-photo200907?currentPage=)

It's a great article...enjoy!

Blessings!
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MissG on March 09, 2011, 02:34:08 PM
Quote from: "VeryLittleSusie"
(http://www.bittenandbound.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/ambulance-arrives-at-hospital-with-michael-jackson.jpg)
(http://www.buzzchow.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/michael-jackson-hospital-385x386.jpg)

(http://www.cayman27.com.ky/app/webroot/files/t1home_michael_jackson_hospital_x17.jpg)


.

In every pic the ambos are different. Either the white paint (thicker lines or broader), the doors, the text on them.
The people entering the hospital. I see extra heads from pic to pic :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MJonmind on March 09, 2011, 02:55:16 PM
Well it's nice to know that these close examinations with an insider to guide us are going to continue into the future for a while at least, while we await the trial. Thanks Im_convincedmjalive for that documentary reinactment video. I wonder who they had acting the part for MJ. He looks very close to the real thing. Even there MJ is clearly not looking like a frail sick old man. Do you know what date that was televised? I'm thinking too that MJ could be behind the making of it. He is fully clothed not naked as has been reported. What amazes me is that the professional investigators don't even seem to think hoax with all the fishy things that don't add up. Even commenters on TMZ seem to be so clueless after all this time. What's wrong with these people.

In the hospital ambulance pics, I'm thinking the right paramedic is black (too distant and hard to see MJ in him) and yet the two in the still pic are clearly both white. Murray does seem too short but he is leaning forward. In the courtroom he is a head taller than the others, though maybe paramedics tend to be taller IDK. To me the 2 ambulances seem the same, just the lighting different (flash or not). My thoughts are that in the famous pic and hospital amb pic, the EMT are all actors. There's just no way anyone would not recognize MJ. The ones giving testimony to officials are clearly not telling the truth and I think have all signed confidentiality clauses for the hoax. Swearing on the Bible means nothing in this hoax clearly, since it is "acting". (There's no way of getting around it, lots of pure lies but for unkown just cause.) There were 2 ambulances at the house, one backing out and one still visible inside the yard. Even if one of them had unsuspecting EMT, they would have wondered what the other one was for and been suspicious, plus all the other wacky wrong things. I think too the tour bus 17 (71 :o ) seems like the timing was included for witnesses and their cameras, but the bus driver needed not be knowing of the hoax.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: GodhaschosenMJ on March 09, 2011, 03:05:38 PM
Quote from: "Gema"
Quote from: "VeryLittleSusie"
(http://www.bittenandbound.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/ambulance-arrives-at-hospital-with-michael-jackson.jpg)
(http://www.buzzchow.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/michael-jackson-hospital-385x386.jpg)

(http://www.cayman27.com.ky/app/webroot/files/t1home_michael_jackson_hospital_x17.jpg)


.

In every pic the ambos are different. Either the white paint (thicker lines or broader), the doors, the text on them.
The people entering the hospital. I see extra heads from pic to pic :lol:

In every pic there are differences, I just don't think those differences show it is a different ambo! The first pic shows 9 people, brightly reflecting reflector at the bottom corner, a washed out back door with stripes, and the letters PAR showing in a faint redish color which I'm going to guess has to do with the red paint on the ambo reflecting onto the white letters! And I see three white stripes down the side. Second pic has 8 people showing because number 9 is out of sight inside the building already! The door and side stripes and reflector are as they should be, since there is no bright light to reflect or wash out anything! Pic three has all 9 people again as you can barely see # 9's leg in the left side of the pic. Now the bright light is back and the doors are washed out again so bad this time you can't even see the PAR letters on the door and the small pin stripe on the side is blended with the wide stripe to look like one, and the corner reflector is reflecting yellow again. So maybe I miss understood, and your weren't saying all of these pics are of a different ambo but these three are different than another ambo pic?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Grace on March 09, 2011, 03:09:09 PM
Here we take our hats down if we want to honor somebody.
LOL - TS_comments, it's understood anyway, txs.
Just that the ambulance subject is by far not finished  ;)
The SUV is a good key, isn't it?


Paramedics
So for the paramedics we have these 4 musketeers since June 2009:
Mark      John     Kenny     Jeff
[attachment=0:1poowntk]Crew.jpg[/attachment:1poowntk]
and since Jan 2011 we have 3 newbies:
Richard Senneff    Firefighter, Paramedic, EMT                    court Jan 5, 2011
Martin Blount      Firefighter 20 yrs. Paramedic 11 yrs, (Driver)      court Jan 6, 2011
and
Captain Steve Ruda (as seen in the testimony video posted above.)

Now who's who and who are the true ones?
Some members of the board did follow the testimonials in court live - they should be able to identify who's who.


Who are they working for? LAFD
Los Angeles Fire Department(LAFD) currently consists of 106 firestations (firestation 71 belonging to batallion 9) with 3,594 uniformed staff and 346 non-sworn support.


Participation of LAFD in movies
LAFD produced their own movies back in 1932:
[youtube:1poowntk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-EV6TuWr6E[/youtube:1poowntk]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-EV6TuWr6E

and in 1949:
http://www.archive.org/details/YourFire1949
http://www.archive.org/details/YourFire1949_2

and this in 2005 and 2009 on their work (some graphic):
[youtube:1poowntk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEz5PMKggSY[/youtube:1poowntk]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEz5PMKggSY

[youtube:1poowntk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPAXuUaxca8[/youtube:1poowntk]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPAXuUaxca8

and participated not only in this short film (2nd place short film for PahNation film fest for Hollywood 09' )
[youtube:1poowntk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHXWA5DVl04[/youtube:1poowntk]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHXWA5DVl04

but also in:
Quote
Media depictions
    * (1974 - 1974) Firehouse, starring James Drury.
    * (1981–1982) Code Red, starring Lorne Greene
    * (1999 - 1999) Rescue 77
    * (2008 - 2008) Quarantine, LAFD as the "Los Angeles Fire Rescue".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_City_Fire_Department

So LAFD do have quite a long tradition in contributing to movies.


LAFD backstage activities
Hollywood needs LAFD always sur scène when they do their filming just in case the special effects would get out of control.


Hollywood and paramedics?
Films about paramedics? Plenty, plus TV shows.
Actors giving a paramedic? Many.
Photographers? Chris Weiss, the photographer was said to have an EMT license.
No proof, just an article.


Handing the baton to the next one.  
Not a good time for giving a snow-white.  ;)
Keep the faith, no reason to get lost now.
Blessings to all.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MissG on March 09, 2011, 03:29:09 PM
Quote from: "GodhaschosenMJ"
Quote from: "Gema"
Quote from: "VeryLittleSusie"
(http://www.bittenandbound.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/ambulance-arrives-at-hospital-with-michael-jackson.jpg)
(http://www.buzzchow.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/michael-jackson-hospital-385x386.jpg)

(http://www.cayman27.com.ky/app/webroot/files/t1home_michael_jackson_hospital_x17.jpg)


.

In every pic the ambos are different. Either the white paint (thicker lines or broader), the doors, the text on them.
The people entering the hospital. I see extra heads from pic to pic :lol:

In every pic there are differences, I just don't think those differences show it is a different ambo! The first pic shows 9 people, brightly reflecting reflector at the bottom corner, a washed out back door with stripes, and the letters PAR showing in a faint redish color which I'm going to guess has to do with the red paint on the ambo reflecting onto the white letters! And I see three white stripes down the side. Second pic has 8 people showing because number 9 is out of sight inside the building already! The door and side stripes and reflector are as they should be, since there is no bright light to reflect or wash out anything! Pic three has all 9 people again as you can barely see # 9's leg in the left side of the pic. Now the bright light is back and the doors are washed out again so bad this time you can't even see the PAR letters on the door and the small pin stripe on the side is blended with the wide stripe to look like one, and the corner reflector is reflecting yellow again. So maybe I miss understood, and your weren't saying all of these pics are of a different ambo but these three are different than another ambo pic?

I mean that there is 1(one) ambo and that ambo has been shopped/modified so we get "the same" ambo but with clear differnces among them.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MissG on March 09, 2011, 03:30:31 PM
Quote from: "Grace"

Paramedics
So for the paramedics we have these 4 musketeers since June 2009:
Mark      John     Kenny     Jeff
[attachment=0:3nvseawv]Crew.jpg[/attachment:3nvseawv]


.

1st time I see the 4 musketeers
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Sarahli on March 09, 2011, 03:39:33 PM
What happened at UCLA could have been a "staged event" as well... in the sense of a diversion. So a theory could be that the people at UCLA were told a story about the fake body and explained that it was all done on purpose in order to divert the media's attention from the real place where the (supposedly) real body was being brought to. They emphasize the fact that it is a high profile, that the CIA is in on it and I bet that the people would not talk and hence a lot of people would not be in on the hoax. I still have in mind Jermaine's slip-up about the airport and be it intentional or not it is certainly an important clue. So Michael in disguise as a paramedic doesn't work i think and i find it a little too dangerous because he could have been recognized and it would have ruined the hoax.

We came to the conclusion that the ambulance picture is fake and was shot prior to June 25, so the fact that we don't see the paramedics' faces is certainly done on purpose as well and for a specific reason i presume...but i'm not sure which one. My first thought was that they're actors and that their faces are hidden because the people working at the LAFD would not recognize them.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: ijcsly on March 09, 2011, 04:02:17 PM
Quote from: "Sarahli"
What happened at UCLA could have been a "staged event" as well... in the sense of a diversion. So a theory could be that the people at UCLA were told a story about the fake body and explained that it was all done on purpose in order to divert the media's attention from the real place where the (supposedly) real body was being brought to. They emphasize the fact that it is a high profile, that the CIA is in on it and I bet that the people would not talk and hence a lot of people would not be in on the hoax. I still have in mind Jermaine's slip-up about the airport and be it intentional or not it is certainly an important clue. So Michael in disguise as a paramedic doesn't work i think and i find it a little too dangerous because he could have been recognized and it would have ruined the hoax.

We came to the conclusion that the ambulance picture is fake and was shot prior to June 25, so the fact that we don't see the paramedics' faces is certainly done on purpose as well and for a specific reason i presume...but i'm not sure which one. My first thought was that they're actors and that their faces are hidden because the people working at the LAFD would not recognize them.



Great thought in your first part there sarahli, but why would Dr Cooper or any other from UCLA need to appear in court ?I like your idea but can't combine the ucla being fooled into thinking they're taking part in a "diversion" and yet having their own ER doc testifying at the prelim.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 09, 2011, 04:08:52 PM

The ambulance is the same on all 3 pics, it's simply reflection that makes it look different.

The paramedics must be in on the hoax, question is if it really are paramedics that responded to a real 911 call, or actors that arrived on cue. Are we sure the 911 call is real anyway? It doesn't have to be I think. I also think you are not allowed to call 911 for a fake emergency. I know that you get in trouble here in Holland for placing a fake call. Maybe he got a deal there, but it never made much sense to me. If the 911 call was real, real paramedics would have been sent. If the guy taking the call really had no idea, he could have sent any ambulance and any paramedic. If he would have sent paramedics that didn't have a clue, they would arrive at a house without a patient and it seems too risky to get them on board, sign contracts in those few minutes. Unless of course there really was a dead guy and the real paramedics were sent though the other gate to Cedar's and were told another ambulance with a dummy would be sent through the front gate as a distraction for the media. This doesn't make sense either, because the EMT's would absolutely have scratched themselves behind the ears as of why there was another fake ambulance with dummy and paramedics ready to go, while this was an emergency. It's too surreal.

The ambulance picture was taken 'the other day' either at Carolwood, or at Culvers, there is no way we can figure that out. Culver sounds logical to me, less risk indeed. I think the 911 call was fake to begin with. The guy taking the call in on the hoax? Yes in that case he is, but as far as I'm concerned it could be MJ himself doing one of his voices. The paramedics on the picture and in the ambulance on June 25 (assuming the same paramedics were on both scenes) are probably actors that were signed for the Dome Project. Friends? Possible, but recalling how many times Mike's trust has been damaged and the fact that he said himself that he could count his real real real friends on one hand, I would go for signed deals. There is probably a group of actors signed which he 'recycles' because I have seen the same faces in different roles more than once. That is probably also why we don't see the faces of the paramedics in the ambulance.

The ambulance really went to UCLA so I think those pictures posted above are really made June 25. There is always a risk a pap or fan with camera would follow the ambulance, so they had to go to the hospital. The department were they arrived was closed down, so only a few people from UCLA would have to be in, maybe just one. It's MJ, the staff could have been told it was closed because of privacy or security reasons etc.

That might sound as if many people need to be in on it, but not necessarily... 3 paramedics (actors) under contract, and there are probably some more (Murray girlfriends, people at the funeral etc.). We also have the dancers who could play roles as well, they are still under contract to this day. UCLA might have a new department sponsored and just one or two key people need to be in the know.

I wouldn't assume Mike would trust anyone besides some of the 'true blue'. It's too risky not to work with strangling contracts here. Everyone on here might say they would do it without needing to sign a contract because they would keep their mouths shut, but just look at the twists of faith and beliefs on this forum, where the majority has his best interest in mind. I know we here are still insecure on a lot of things, but I don't think anyone who plays a role in this knows the complete story, with the exception of some kye people. Human nature makes it impossible imo not to work with contracts. Which is sad, but true. Also, look at what some have to go through, like Kenny, Murray, Jermaine and even Katherine, who all have been slandered on the net. I don't think he needed his mom under contract though, but I wouldn't be surprised if he let everyone sign something. I know I would. I agree only the ones necessary are in on the hoax, but you simply can't pull this off with just 5 people, the project is too big.

@TS Thanks for the diploma man, how many more before we receive our master? :lol:
Other than that you posted your post on 3/9 at 3:33, I don't see where numerology comes in here, could you please enlighten us?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: ijcsly on March 09, 2011, 04:17:48 PM
i think the paramedics who responded "that" day were the real deal.They got there and found  a "hospice patient" a "frail old man" and did not know it was MJ until it was pointed out to them.They testified to this in court, under oath. They possibly don't speak out on the ambulance picture because of hipaa regulations?
Who am i kidding, i'm lost here...
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Do on March 09, 2011, 04:37:47 PM
Quote from: "Do"
Hi guys,
I'm not an avid reader of TS' posts (I truly apologize for that  :oops: ) so maybe I do not understand the value of his post, but my question is what's the use of trying to figure this all out? I thought that, now we are (hopefully) getting closer to a possible bam, there will be more important reasons to learn about this hoax. I feel that this post of TS does not add any important information, except the fact Michaels death really was fake and staged. But we came to that conclusion a long time ago right? I haven't post much lately because I had the feeling we were running around in circles and I get that same feeling once again with this particular post. I hope someone can explain to me what's the reason for this post, what kind of information in it will help us to UNDERSTAND the reasons of the hoax? Hugs

I must have asked a really stupid question, because noone took the time to give me a (short) answer. I know I do not belong to the group of regular posters, but I'm a bit disappointed and I feel ignored. We can continue to repeat the same old stuff again and again but my question is: what's the use of it and aren't there much more important things to learn whether it is or isn't the same ambulance? Please fill me in!
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Sarahli on March 09, 2011, 04:48:17 PM
Quote from: "Do"
Quote from: "Do"
Hi guys,
I'm not an avid reader of TS' posts (I truly apologize for that  :oops: ) so maybe I do not understand the value of his post, but my question is what's the use of trying to figure this all out? I thought that, now we are (hopefully) getting closer to a possible bam, there will be more important reasons to learn about this hoax. I feel that this post of TS does not add any important information, except the fact Michaels death really was fake and staged. But we came to that conclusion a long time ago right? I haven't post much lately because I had the feeling we were running around in circles and I get that same feeling once again with this particular post. I hope someone can explain to me what's the reason for this post, what kind of information in it will help us to UNDERSTAND the reasons of the hoax? Hugs

I must have asked a really stupid question, because noone took the time to give me a (short) answer. I know I do not belong to the group of regular posters, but I'm a bit disappointed and I feel ignored. We can continue to repeat the same old stuff again and again but my question is: what's the use of it and aren't there much more important things to learn whether it is or isn't the same ambulance? Please fill me in!

Dear Do  :)  I have read your post but didn't know how to answer. For my part I'm just interested and curious about the hows of this hoax. I will say that trying to find out how things have been done will help us understand the reasons of the hoax because obviously when we dissect the hows we clearly see that a great length of time and risks have been necessary/taken in order to create it and make it possible. So it is not just for entertainment purposes. It will also certainly help us understand the upcoming trial. I don't know if it makes sense.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 09, 2011, 04:49:48 PM
Quote from: "Do"
Quote from: "Do"
Hi guys,
I'm not an avid reader of TS' posts (I truly apologize for that  :oops: ) so maybe I do not understand the value of his post, but my question is what's the use of trying to figure this all out? I thought that, now we are (hopefully) getting closer to a possible bam, there will be more important reasons to learn about this hoax. I feel that this post of TS does not add any important information, except the fact Michaels death really was fake and staged. But we came to that conclusion a long time ago right? I haven't post much lately because I had the feeling we were running around in circles and I get that same feeling once again with this particular post. I hope someone can explain to me what's the reason for this post, what kind of information in it will help us to UNDERSTAND the reasons of the hoax? Hugs

I must have asked a really stupid question, because noone took the time to give me a (short) answer. I know I do not belong to the group of regular posters, but I'm a bit disappointed and I feel ignored. We can continue to repeat the same old stuff again and again but my question is: what's the use of it and aren't there much more important things to learn whether it is or isn't the same ambulance? Please fill me in!
To get a complete, coherent theory. The forum is full of theories and beliefs, this way we will come to just one, solid theory that can be backed up with evidence.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 09, 2011, 04:52:57 PM
Quote from: "ijcsly"
i think the paramedics who responded "that" day were the real deal.They got there and found  a "hospice patient" a "frail old man" and did not know it was MJ until it was pointed out to them.They testified to this in court, under oath. They possibly don't speak out on the ambulance picture because of hipaa regulations?
Who am i kidding, i'm lost here...
I don't think the court was real. That doesn't mean anyone in that room is in on the hoax, but at least the key people and (some) witnesses. The trial isn't going to be real either. Like Jermaine said, first justice, then truth. Which means no truth in the trial (fake), but justice. How? I guess we just need to sit back and watch it.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Do on March 09, 2011, 05:10:51 PM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Quote from: "Do"
Quote from: "Do"
Hi guys,
I'm not an avid reader of TS' posts (I truly apologize for that  :oops: ) so maybe I do not understand the value of his post, but my question is what's the use of trying to figure this all out? I thought that, now we are (hopefully) getting closer to a possible bam, there will be more important reasons to learn about this hoax. I feel that this post of TS does not add any important information, except the fact Michaels death really was fake and staged. But we came to that conclusion a long time ago right? I haven't post much lately because I had the feeling we were running around in circles and I get that same feeling once again with this particular post. I hope someone can explain to me what's the reason for this post, what kind of information in it will help us to UNDERSTAND the reasons of the hoax? Hugs

I must have asked a really stupid question, because noone took the time to give me a (short) answer. I know I do not belong to the group of regular posters, but I'm a bit disappointed and I feel ignored. We can continue to repeat the same old stuff again and again but my question is: what's the use of it and aren't there much more important things to learn whether it is or isn't the same ambulance? Please fill me in!
To get a complete, coherent theory. The forum is full of theories and beliefs, this way we will come to just one, solid theory that can be backed up with evidence.

Thank you Souza for answering me  :) . I do understand what you are saying, but I still feel this evidence isn't important anymore. If Michael decides to return, I believe that the world isn't interested in HOW he did it, but WHY he did it. This feels like keeping us 'busy' in a quit time with no news.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Le Papillon Bleu on March 09, 2011, 05:19:16 PM
Quote from: "Do"
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Quote from: "Do"
Quote from: "Do"
Hi guys,
I'm not an avid reader of TS' posts (I truly apologize for that  :oops: ) so maybe I do not understand the value of his post, but my question is what's the use of trying to figure this all out? I thought that, now we are (hopefully) getting closer to a possible bam, there will be more important reasons to learn about this hoax. I feel that this post of TS does not add any important information, except the fact Michaels death really was fake and staged. But we came to that conclusion a long time ago right? I haven't post much lately because I had the feeling we were running around in circles and I get that same feeling once again with this particular post. I hope someone can explain to me what's the reason for this post, what kind of information in it will help us to UNDERSTAND the reasons of the hoax? Hugs

I must have asked a really stupid question, because noone took the time to give me a (short) answer. I know I do not belong to the group of regular posters, but I'm a bit disappointed and I feel ignored. We can continue to repeat the same old stuff again and again but my question is: what's the use of it and aren't there much more important things to learn whether it is or isn't the same ambulance? Please fill me in!
To get a complete, coherent theory. The forum is full of theories and beliefs, this way we will come to just one, solid theory that can be backed up with evidence.

Thank you Souza for answering me  :) . I do understand what you are saying, but I still feel this evidence isn't important anymore. If Michael decides to return, I believe that the world isn't interested in HOW he did it, but WHY he did it. This feels like keeping us 'busy' in a quit time with no news.
Well ,your first question is mine too!
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on March 09, 2011, 05:21:23 PM
Quote from: "MJonmind"
Well it's nice to know that these close examinations with an insider to guide us are going to continue into the future for a while at least, while we await the trial. Thanks Im_convincedmjalive for that documentary reinactment video. I wonder who they had acting the part for MJ. He looks very close to the real thing. Even there MJ is clearly not looking like a frail sick old man. Do you know what date that was televised? I'm thinking too that MJ could be behind the making of it. He is fully clothed not naked as has been reported. What amazes me is that the professional investigators don't even seem to think hoax with all the fishy things that don't add up. Even commenters on TMZ seem to be so clueless after all this time. What's wrong with these people.

In the hospital ambulance pics, I'm thinking the right paramedic is black (too distant and hard to see MJ in him) and yet the two in the still pic are clearly both white. Murray does seem too short but he is leaning forward. In the courtroom he is a head taller than the others, though maybe paramedics tend to be taller IDK. To me the 2 ambulances seem the same, just the lighting different (flash or not). My thoughts are that in the famous pic and hospital amb pic, the EMT are all actors. There's just no way anyone would not recognize MJ. The ones giving testimony to officials are clearly not telling the truth and I think have all signed confidentiality clauses for the hoax. Swearing on the Bible means nothing in this hoax clearly, since it is "acting". (There's no way of getting around it, lots of pure lies but for unkown just cause.) There were 2 ambulances at the house, one backing out and one still visible inside the yard. Even if one of them had unsuspecting EMT, they would have wondered what the other one was for and been suspicious, plus all the other wacky wrong things. I think too the tour bus 17 (71 :o ) seems like the timing was included for witnesses and their cameras, but the bus driver needed not be knowing of the hoax.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/articl ... html?cat=2 (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2728673/vh1_revisits_famous_crime_scene_of.html?cat=2)
Quote
This Friday, Feb. 26, the VH1 program will present its take into the death of one of the most famous celebrities of all time, Michael Jackson. The entire world mourned when it was announced The King of Pop had died on June 25, 2009, apparently of a drug overdose.
Your welcome. I think this show was discussed on the forum last year but at the time people were to sensitive still over the death that I am thinking many didn't realize how much info could actually be in favor of the hoax.

Timing is everything and now 20/20 hindsight shows how much we may have missed. I didn't watch it until a couple of days ago. I don't know what category the thread is in now.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 09, 2011, 05:25:49 PM
Quote from: "Do"
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Quote from: "Do"
Quote from: "Do"
Hi guys,
I'm not an avid reader of TS' posts (I truly apologize for that  :oops: ) so maybe I do not understand the value of his post, but my question is what's the use of trying to figure this all out? I thought that, now we are (hopefully) getting closer to a possible bam, there will be more important reasons to learn about this hoax. I feel that this post of TS does not add any important information, except the fact Michaels death really was fake and staged. But we came to that conclusion a long time ago right? I haven't post much lately because I had the feeling we were running around in circles and I get that same feeling once again with this particular post. I hope someone can explain to me what's the reason for this post, what kind of information in it will help us to UNDERSTAND the reasons of the hoax? Hugs

I must have asked a really stupid question, because noone took the time to give me a (short) answer. I know I do not belong to the group of regular posters, but I'm a bit disappointed and I feel ignored. We can continue to repeat the same old stuff again and again but my question is: what's the use of it and aren't there much more important things to learn whether it is or isn't the same ambulance? Please fill me in!
To get a complete, coherent theory. The forum is full of theories and beliefs, this way we will come to just one, solid theory that can be backed up with evidence.

Thank you Souza for answering me  :) . I do understand what you are saying, but I still feel this evidence isn't important anymore. If Michael decides to return, I believe that the world isn't interested in HOW he did it, but WHY he did it. This feels like keeping us 'busy' in a quit time with no news.

Well I am interested, and I think that after the shock of the return and the questions of the 'whys', people sure want to know how the hell he fooled them that long.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: suspicious mind on March 09, 2011, 05:27:19 PM
guys. please forgive me i know we are supposed to be focused on the paramedics but. that middle picture caught my eye. could someone who has proper equipment or experties look at it a little closer. in the reflection of the glass i see a face . it seems a bit familiar. then maybe i should go have a comfy time out in my corner.  :oops:

oh yeah . didn't kenny testify to michael saying something about equipment would be arriving the next day for the illusion?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Do on March 09, 2011, 05:29:00 PM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Quote from: "Do"
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Quote from: "Do"
Quote from: "Do"
Hi guys,
I'm not an avid reader of TS' posts (I truly apologize for that  :oops: ) so maybe I do not understand the value of his post, but my question is what's the use of trying to figure this all out? I thought that, now we are (hopefully) getting closer to a possible bam, there will be more important reasons to learn about this hoax. I feel that this post of TS does not add any important information, except the fact Michaels death really was fake and staged. But we came to that conclusion a long time ago right? I haven't post much lately because I had the feeling we were running around in circles and I get that same feeling once again with this particular post. I hope someone can explain to me what's the reason for this post, what kind of information in it will help us to UNDERSTAND the reasons of the hoax? Hugs

I must have asked a really stupid question, because noone took the time to give me a (short) answer. I know I do not belong to the group of regular posters, but I'm a bit disappointed and I feel ignored. We can continue to repeat the same old stuff again and again but my question is: what's the use of it and aren't there much more important things to learn whether it is or isn't the same ambulance? Please fill me in!
To get a complete, coherent theory. The forum is full of theories and beliefs, this way we will come to just one, solid theory that can be backed up with evidence.

Thank you Souza for answering me  :) . I do understand what you are saying, but I still feel this evidence isn't important anymore. If Michael decides to return, I believe that the world isn't interested in HOW he did it, but WHY he did it. This feels like keeping us 'busy' in a quit time with no news.

Well I am interested, and I think that after the shock of the return and the questions of the 'whys', people sure want to know how the hell he fooled them that long.

OK, that I understand! I do hope he makes a hell of a movie of it!!!
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on March 09, 2011, 05:29:25 PM
Quote from: "mdc"
I guess if you want to determine if it's the actual #71 ambulance or just one that looks almost like it we could start back with the cabinets that don't appear to match. The white/silver trim around the cabinet in the video is not seen in the ambulance photo.
Screen cap from video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMB5gfcVChg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMB5gfcVChg)
[attachment=1:hfmorkxb]ambulance cabinet.jpg[/attachment:hfmorkxb]

Crop from ambulance2 photo:
[attachment=0:hfmorkxb]Ambulance2crop.jpg[/attachment:hfmorkxb]


I would like to ask you a question, why is the ambulance with the fire department? I am asking because here in Montreal,Canada our ambulances do not belong to the fire department. I just thought maybe that explains the hoaxed ambulance.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: fordtocarr on March 09, 2011, 05:31:14 PM
IMO there is NO way unless Michael totally explains how and why, that I'll believe this is a number game with Michale and hoaxing.  I do not think he was planning it and set down and said, geez I have to do it this day, or can't do it that way because the numbers don't work out.  Oh, down the road, these numbers don't work out so we have to scrap that  too...
Nope,I think his agenda was way to intense to have to do this to begin with and I don't believe he had time, or put his need to do it on the cusp of numbers matching up.
JMO
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on March 09, 2011, 05:57:37 PM
Cont. to read here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/0 ... 47591.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/01/ex-ucla-worker-pleads-gui_n_147591.html)

Ex-UCLA Worker Pleads Guilty To Selling Celebrity Medical Records
Quote
LOS ANGELES — A former employee of UCLA Medical Center pleaded guilty Monday to selling information from the medical records of celebrities and high-profile patients, including Britney Spears and Farrah Fawcett, to the National Enquirer.

Lawanda Jackson, 49, spoke quietly as she entered her plea to the felony charge of violating federal medical privacy law for commercial purposes in U.S. District Court.

She faces a maximum sentence of 10 years in prison, followed by three years of supervised release, and a $250,000 fine. Sentencing is set for May.

Jackson and her attorney, Angel Navarro, declined to comment after the hearing.

Jackson worked as an administrative specialist at the UCLA hospitals for 32 years and in recent years began using her supervisor's password to access medical records inappropriately, authorities said.

The tabloid deposited checks totaling at least $4,600 into her husband's checking account beginning in 2006, prosecutors said. Jackson resigned in July 2007 before she could be fired.

Jackson and state officials have disclosed that records for Spears, Fawcett and California first lady Maria Shriver were among those breached.

Fawcett's attorney, Kim Swartz, said in April that the star's cancer diagnosis and details of her treatment showed up in the National Enquirer after an employee at the hospital accessed her medical records.
Do you think the hospital might be taking extra careful measures to avoid another issue like this one with Farrah? I believe that the UCLA ER personnel would absolutely keep their mouths shut (without having to sign a contract for the hoax) because of this issue in the past. The ER people don't need to be in the know for this to work.  ;)

In a real emergency most people are not focused on faces. They are focused on the illness, injury, etc. If Michael did ride in the ambulance as a paramedic or the guy sitting up on the strecher (remember that guy) the people in the ER wouldn't be looking to see if he is Michael. They would be focused on fixing the patient.

The guy sitting up on the strecher at the ER doors in my opinion is another subliminal clue to get people wondering WTH is going on. I think those pictures of the ambulance at the ER doors are staged also.

There is also the guy who is filmed through the gate and he is suspect to me as being Michael. That would connect the dot to the paramedic in question being him.

Mass confusion happened that day at UCLA when the news broke.

People were/are under a spell.  8-)


P.S. You do know who that is? CA Gov. Arnold's wife.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: mjaliveomg on March 09, 2011, 06:12:39 PM
Quote from: "suspicious mind"
guys. please forgive me i know we are supposed to be focused on the paramedics but. that middle picture caught my eye. could someone who has proper equipment or experties look at it a little closer. in the reflection of the glass i see a face . it seems a bit familiar. then maybe i should go have a comfy time out in my corner.  :oops:

oh yeah . didn't kenny testify to michael saying something about equipment would be arriving the next day for the illusion?

u mean this face??

(http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/5097/facepu.jpg) (http://img202.imageshack.us/i/facepu.jpg/)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: suspicious mind on March 09, 2011, 06:14:22 PM
Quote from: "mjaliveomg"
Quote from: "suspicious mind"
guys. please forgive me i know we are supposed to be focused on the paramedics but. that middle picture caught my eye. could someone who has proper equipment or experties look at it a little closer. in the reflection of the glass i see a face . it seems a bit familiar. then maybe i should go have a comfy time out in my corner.  :oops:

oh yeah . didn't kenny testify to michael saying something about equipment would be arriving the next day for the illusion?

u mean this face??

(http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/5097/facepu.jpg) (http://img202.imageshack.us/i/facepu.jpg/)

yep  might be nothin' but my add ;)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MJhasSpoken on March 09, 2011, 06:34:51 PM
Maybe there was no ambulance before June 25th MJ could of simply used the real photo (the one on June 25th) and then taken pictures for the outside and put those two together. Since there was two days (that day and the other day) that would mean the paramedics weren't in on the hoax. Because just say they were in on the hoax then there would be no point to have 2 seperate days to produce the photo. But what I also don't know is why MJ used two seperate days couldn't he just do it on one day?

Also what is the point in having a fake photo?, is it to get to the non believers, if so couldn't MJ just simply photoshop it like any other person would, instead of having to go through all that trouble,or does MJ like to make things a little more complicated then it should be?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: suspicious mind on March 09, 2011, 09:26:33 PM
if real paramedics made a real call that day, then was it not for a real person? i have this feeling that the thing about the dead homeless person at the courthouse is connected in some way.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: PureLove on March 09, 2011, 10:09:42 PM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Quote from: "2good2btrue"
Thanks for the new information TS.

There had to be a real ambulance at Carolwood Dve, to help start the illusion....

Yes, if you mean on 6-25-09.  However, my statement was referring to a staged photo before 6-25-09.  Here is my statement again: "For example: if the ambulance photo was staged before 6-25-09, why bother bringing the ambulance to Carolwood Drive [before 6-25-09]—just to take a photo of things inside the ambulance?"

I haven't read all 3 pages yet, so this theory could have been written before. Here is my theory regarding to the ambulance issue. An ambulance that looks like the real ambulance came to a studio or Michael's house before 6-25-09. There were actors to play paramedics. And the pictures were taken on that day. And the ambulance went to the hospital with Michael inside on that day as well where we had these photos of him getting into the hospital sitting on the stretcher.

(http://www.cayman27.com.ky/app/webroot/files/t1home_michael_jackson_hospital_x17.jpg)

And on 6-25-2009 a real ambulance came to MJ's house with real paramedics and they found an old Asian looking man, probably who died hours ago and tried to survive him. And that is the reason why the paramedics said the patient didn't look like Michael. I still believe a dead body was used on 6-25 because of the paramedics' comments about the patient and how MJ's room was kept warm in the middle of summer. And the paramedics who are in court are also the real paramedics who went MJ's house on 6-25. I do not know if they said anything related how the patient looked like on that day in their testimony but probably they thought that MJ was so sick and fragile and that was the reason why he looked like an old guy. Michael can be the most famous person in this world but he wasn't in front of the cameras for some time and not everyone is his fans to follow and catch up what he looks like recently.

Michael had to use a fake ambulance to make fake photos because you could never know if someone (who has an agreement like Ben or some random people who were there) can take a nice shot of inside of the ambulance when the ambulance is moving. The scene needed to look real on 6-25 and there had to be witnesses that an ambulance was there on that day. And the ambulance was slow, without the sirens but still it couldn't stop and wait there for people to get nice shots through tinted windows.

So I believe that is the reason why Michael staged an ambulance scene before the real one on 6-25. And he used photoshop and changed his face, added some extra clues for us to understand the ambo pic is fake. BUT it couldn't be too fake to make everyone understand that it is fake. Until the statement came from Brian Oxman due to fake ambulance picture, people(non-believers) were still considering it as a real picture.

Probably Ben was called on the staged ambo day and on the real ambo day, to take the pictures on the staged ambo day and to be there on 6-25 to talk and make a statement like he was the one who took the ambo pictures. Do we even see this guy around the ambulance or his friend what ever he looks like on 6-25? And why that guy who took the picture doesn't talk but Ben does? To make a "goof" like "... on that day and the other d... umm"?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: scorpionchik on March 09, 2011, 10:40:09 PM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
Quote from: "ijcsly"
I don't think the court was real. That doesn't mean anyone in that room is in on the hoax, but at least the key people and (some) witnesses. The trial isn't going to be real either. Like Jermaine said, first justice, then truth. Which means no truth in the trial (fake), but justice. How? I guess we just need to sit back and watch it.

What justice? If this is a hoax, Murrey must be aquitted of charges. If this is not a hoax, then it is murder, Murrey must be charged w/ first degree murder with conspiracy, not manslaughter. But there is not enough evidence for murder, so murder is not in DA's charges.Only family claims it is a murder.
There is no justice going to be either way, then when will be the truth? Unless I don't understand what you mean by "not real", the court and key people are real. There is no way they all know Michael is alive and having investigation and trial. This mean they all believe Michael is dead and they do their job.
Now, why they believe Michael is dead? Based on autopsy only. Because no LAPD, DA, nor judge, jury, or any authority have seen Michael actually dead. EXCEPT FOR CORONER. So, the hoax goes up to the coroner office. Beyond that office, all real. What happens in LA county coroner, how we got AR, is it based on someone dead body, or is it real Michael, or bribed coroner? Those are questions we need to challenge.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Yambo3003 on March 09, 2011, 11:20:01 PM
Quote from: "PureLove"
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Quote from: "2good2btrue"
Thanks for the new information TS.

There had to be a real ambulance at Carolwood Dve, to help start the illusion....

Yes, if you mean on 6-25-09.  However, my statement was referring to a staged photo before 6-25-09.  Here is my statement again: "For example: if the ambulance photo was staged before 6-25-09, why bother bringing the ambulance to Carolwood Drive [before 6-25-09]—just to take a photo of things inside the ambulance?"


Probably Ben was called on the staged ambo day and on the real ambo day, to take the pictures on the staged ambo day and to be there on 6-25 to talk and make a statement like he was the one who took the ambo pictures. Do we even see this guy around the ambulance or his friend what ever he looks like on 6-25? And why that guy who took the picture doesn't talk but Ben does? To make a "goof" like "... on that day and the other d... umm"? [/b]


It's like a duo. We have Batman & Robin. We know Batman is the leader. Batman does all the talking. Is Batman & Robin...not Robin & Batman. It's the Bat-mobile, not the Rob-mobile. Maybe Ben is like Batman and had to do all the talking. My opinion...  :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Yambo3003 on March 09, 2011, 11:30:54 PM
Quote from: "TS_comments"

The next level means that we are now going to shift the focus from the ambulance picture (whether it was real or fake, etc) to whether or not some or all of the paramedics are in on the hoax.  Did the actual paramedics pose for a staged ambulance shot before 6-25-09?  Or did MJ use actors dressed like paramedics?  Was the ambulance photo staged with the actual #71 LAFD ambulance, or another one that looks about the same inside?  Would the real paramedics publicly deny the ambulance photo, if it was not them in the picture (and they were not in on the hoax)?

Using what tools? The same photos we have? Can we still extract evidence from those? I feel I'm gonna be stuck in High School for a while.  :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: PureLove on March 09, 2011, 11:35:45 PM
Quote from: "Yambo3003"
Quote from: "PureLove"
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Quote from: "2good2btrue"
Thanks for the new information TS.

There had to be a real ambulance at Carolwood Dve, to help start the illusion....

Yes, if you mean on 6-25-09.  However, my statement was referring to a staged photo before 6-25-09.  Here is my statement again: "For example: if the ambulance photo was staged before 6-25-09, why bother bringing the ambulance to Carolwood Drive [before 6-25-09]—just to take a photo of things inside the ambulance?"


Probably Ben was called on the staged ambo day and on the real ambo day, to take the pictures on the staged ambo day and to be there on 6-25 to talk and make a statement like he was the one who took the ambo pictures. Do we even see this guy around the ambulance or his friend what ever he looks like on 6-25? And why that guy who took the picture doesn't talk but Ben does? To make a "goof" like "... on that day and the other d... umm"? [/b]


It's like a duo. We have Batman & Robin. We know Batman is the leader. Batman does all the talking. Is Batman & Robin...not Robin & Batman. It's the Bat-mobile, not the Rob-mobile. Maybe Ben is like Batman and had to do all the talking. My opinion...  :lol:

Poor Robin. Batman gets all the credit. :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: a18wheelslady on March 09, 2011, 11:47:41 PM
I think that the ambulance photo was taken prier to 6/25 and it was staged with actors or like someone stated before they seem to never move so could
Be dummies. And it was the real Michael lying there for the photo.
Then on 6/25 the real paramedics came out to the house and they did not recognize the person as being Michael because it was not him. It was someone that
Was on there death bead and gave permission to use there body for this hoax (who knows a good pay out to help family members with expenses)
And what we saw at the hospital was real because there would have to be way too many people involved to keep an eye on.
With a fake body and all the statements that he was in poor health why would any of the medical staff question all the family members that were there?
Just a quick thought. I could be way off.
Hugssssssssssssssssssssssssssss   :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D

BTW  Thank you TS for staying with us.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Yambo3003 on March 09, 2011, 11:56:14 PM
I don't know if this old article was posted before but it might help in some way to push this new focus on the paramedics investigation.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/musi ... ealed.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/michael-jackson/7304639/Michael-Jackson-paramedic-tape-revealed.html)

Michael Jackson: paramedic tape revealed

A recording that is believed to detail the moment paramedics broke the news of Michael Jackson’s death has emerged.

[youtube:7lwauqqy]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bN_BL3x0Ns8&tracker=False[/youtube:7lwauqqy]


By Ben Leach 7:44AM GMT 24 Feb 2010



The tape is thought to feature a Los Angeles Fire Department medical worker calling the UCLA hospital.

The voice on the recording says: “Patient is Michael Jackson, the pop star singer. No pulse, no breathing.

“Unresponsive. Tried to resuscitate him. Unsuccessful. We’ve done everything we can. We should be there in five minutes. It doesn’t look good. It doesn’t look good.”

The tape emerged on an ambulance workers’ internet forum, according to The Sun.

An LAFD spokesman said: “I couldn’t confirm that it is one of our workers. It could be. They refer to “pop star Michael Jackson” but it is not our practice to name names.”
Related Articles

 
If genuine, the recording may be used as evidence in Dr Conrad Murray’s trial over involuntary manslaughter charges later this year.

It contradicts Dr Murray’s claims. He said that Jackson was still warm and had a pulse when he put him in the ambulance.

He has admitted giving the singer a cocktail of drugs including Propofol, the powerful sedative.

Jackson died on June 25 last year aged 50 while preparing for his forthcoming This Is It concert series at the O2 Arena in London.

*EDIT*: I found other articles saying that this is a fake call (conversation). Sorry for bringing this before looking into it.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MJhasSpoken on March 10, 2011, 12:13:07 AM
delete
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MJonmind on March 10, 2011, 12:27:23 AM
Not only are the paramedics actors on the fake photo, but they have to be actors on June 25th as well. They responded to the 911 call. It's a serious offense to make a 911 call for non-real events. During the call the 911 operator actually hangs up on MJ's security gaurd who makes the call, which they should never do, therefore fake. Fake 911 operator would only "dispatch" actor paramedics. Notice no sirens either as they go to the hospital. 71 amb. would simply be performing as in a movie usage.

Quote
MJhasSpoken
Also what is the point in having a fake photo?, is it to get to the non believers, if so couldn't MJ just simply photoshop it like any other person would, instead of having to go through all that trouble,or does MJ like to make things a little more complicated then it should be?
If Michael really wanted to just fake his death and fade into the sunset to some hidden paradise forever, he would have made everything very authentic and very real, impossible to find flaws. But the thousands of slip-ups, inconsistencies and wacky things show he clearly wants to be discovered to be hoaxing us. In fact I believe there is beautiful harmony. Dots to be connected, related themes and patterns. TS has shown the irrefutable incredible numerology in the hoax. I remember way back it was talked about all the 2's in the hoax. 02 arena, talk of doubles in TII, 2 -TII versions, 2 -911 calls, "this and the other d...", 2 ambulances, 2 Dave-Dave's, and more I can't think of.

I too, have thought about the great risks some key people are taking by being part of the hoax, particularly Murray, Kenny Ortega and some others who are percieved by some as participating in a murder. All it takes is one crazed fan. MJ must have to pay them extra, or they love him no matter what happens. This is surely an extreme adventure for them.

Im_convincedmjalive, this television series is interesting for who they are focusing on.
Quote
Michael Jackson, Tupac Shakur, and Anna Nicole Smith are only three of seven celebrities whose crime scenes are scheduled to be investigated during Famous Crime Scene's first season on VH1.
The series, which airs from 9-9:30 p.m. EST on Fridays, is slated to also
examine the untimely losses of John Lennon, Marvin Gaye, The Notorious B.I.G. and Selena.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: RunFaYaLife on March 10, 2011, 12:31:04 AM
[youtube:xwmpvqk4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GusaWm5RoxI&tracker=False&NR=1[/youtube:xwmpvqk4]

This ones better....no distractions.
What is the problem with that call?
answer....NOTHING.
It is a typical call where you would hear one party
talking to the other about a said situation.

I guess none of you have ever had a police scanner?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: 2good2btrue on March 10, 2011, 12:53:36 AM
I will post this picture of Michael again........he had a paramedic shirt made up for him, and who knows where he kept it all these years.  It's obviously really easy to get a uniform made up if you're Michael Jackson...

And Twiggy from MJhoax live has been in the courtroom, at every trial.  She would have recognised the paramedics and would be the first to report that they didn't look the same, but unfortunatley, they did.  They were the same men as in the pictures..
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: PureLove on March 10, 2011, 12:54:11 AM
Quote from: "MJonmind"
Not only are the paramedics actors on the fake photo, but they have to be actors on June 25th as well. They responded to the 911 call. It's a serious offense to make a 911 call for non-real events. During the call the 911 operator actually hangs up on MJ's security gaurd who makes the call, which they should never do, therefore fake. Fake 911 operator would only "dispatch" actor paramedics. Notice no sirens either as they go to the hospital. 71 amb. would simply be performing as in a movie usage.

What if there is a real 911 call and a staged one and the one we heard is the staged one?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: bec on March 10, 2011, 12:58:06 AM
If a tree falls in the forest and there's no one around to hear it, does it make a sound?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: PureLove on March 10, 2011, 01:02:59 AM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Quote from: "mdc"
Just wondering...
Do you think the cabinet from the pictures match the cabinet from the video? Wouldn't that white border show up in the pictures?

(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12209)

(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12208)


Good catch!  I'm glad somebody noticed this--it is one of the "secrets" that I have been planning on pointing out, if nobody found it.  But I'm always glad when someone else finds it first.  There is one more thing about this that I will include later, if nobody else gets it first.



TS, I was wondering what the other one more thing you were going to include. Did you write it to us already or someone else has found it or are you waiting for the ambulance research/discussion to end?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: chappie on March 10, 2011, 01:13:00 AM
Funny....the paparazzi are right behind the ambulance on their way to the hospital with 4 man?
Arriving at the hospital and such bad pics and vid, far away and not even close?
Normally paps jump out of their car, and come close to the victim they are chasing.
To get the best shot for the day.
But hell no....they stayed far away, no time to get out of the car or even run to the ambulance.
They had the camera on, you can see it in a video with Ben.
No pics of the ambulance arriving at the hospital?
No pics of the stretcher getting out of the ambulance?
Bad job Ben.
 :D
Chappie
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: RunFaYaLife on March 10, 2011, 01:18:19 AM
Quote
If a tree falls in the forest and there's no one around to hear it, does it make a sound?

lmfao!
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MJonmind on March 10, 2011, 01:22:32 AM
Indeed where are all the many competing paps for house or UCLA on June 25, only Ben's company.

Quote from: "bec"
If a tree falls in the forest and there's no one around to hear it, does it make a sound?
:lol:

Does anyone remember way back there was either a video or a post focusing on faces that seemed to reappear for different roles in the hoax as in actors/actresses, like in the earlier Murray court preliminaries, security guards, a particular MJ fan group, and more? Thanks.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 10, 2011, 03:13:00 AM
In the 911 call they never said it was Michael Jackson but a gentleman of 50.
And he was admitted at UCLA under the name Soule Shaun.
The paramedics said they didn't recognize Michael Jackson, because there was an old frail man.

So one scenario would be this: another person died instead of Michael.
In this case nobody from the fire dep. or from the paramedics or from the hospital had to be in the hoax and everything that happened that day was for real, except the fact that the dying person was not Michael.

I would go for this

There is only one problem: Why the paramedics, if they are not in the hoax, didn't  reveal that the ambulance pic is fake?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: mjfansince4 on March 10, 2011, 03:58:22 AM
how crazy. i was just going to post about the paramedics last night in the other thread about the ambulance picture, but i wasn't even sure if it was relevant. i feel bad i haven't been helping out lately- it's finals week and my brain is being sunk by the endless papers i have to write. sorry guys, you're all doing an incredible job!


the paramedics are what i specifically focused on in the ambulance picture. i have different scenarios and questions running through my head. i'll post them, hopefully you guys can help me sort through the mess in my head.

let's say they are paid actors. to make things easier (and involve less people) michael could have hired a set of actors and had them sign a confidentiality agreement. they could be the paramedics on "the other day" as well as "the day." he could have also asked them to place the 911 call (since we know it sounds phony). multiple jobs for as little people as possible-less likely the hoax leaks. with this scenario, the doctors at UCLA would have to have known that the paramedics were actors and expecting who or what was on the stretcher. this would also work with the assumption the court is a set up. nobody commits perjury or is "lying under oath" of any kind since it is all a fallacy anyway.

the other scenario would be that there were a set of hired actors (or models) for "the other day." then the real paramedics responded to the house to collect a "hospice patient" believing it to be michael. in this case, the 911 would have to be real, since a paramedics who are doing their daily runs do not respond to a fake call. they would have to be dispatched. this would also mean that michael had to somehow know the race of the paramedics who would come to the house to match them in the ambulance photo (since the photo was shown worldwide, you'd think real EMTs would say "that's not my arm or body"-especially in court). this sounds like a much more complicated and shaky plan.

also, who is to say that the EMTs in the photo (assuming they are not real EMTs) aren't actors, but some of michael's friends/ employees? Would he have to pay people to do a job he could entrust to those who are most loyal to him? We don't know who michael knows (perfect example would be the casicos). maybe those who took the stand are neither actors nor real EMTs, but rather friends whom michael didn't have to pay. their loyalty was free.

by examining the paramedics within the picture, i have a hard time believing that they are real EMTs. the one factor that gets me every time is the paramedic on the left, with one hand on michael's chest. now, it's obvious he isn't doing chest compressions. let's say this picture was taken in seconds, each frame representing a millisecond even.  when would an EMT ever stand over a patient with one hand on the chest? wouldn't that seem he would be leaning on the patient (a big common sense no-no)? i'm open to ideas. the placement of the hand is what gets me.

just some thoughts.

hey TS: now that we've graduated, are we sophomores now? my birthday's next week and i'm getting old. i'll cling to anything that represents youth! :P
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: 2good2btrue on March 10, 2011, 04:26:06 AM
Quote from: "MJonmind"
Indeed where are all the many competing paps for house or UCLA on June 25, only Ben's company.

Quote from: "bec"
If a tree falls in the forest and there's no one around to hear it, does it make a sound?
:lol:

Does anyone remember way back there was either a video or a post focusing on faces that seemed to reappear for different roles in the hoax as in actors/actresses, like in the earlier Murray court preliminaries, security guards, a particular MJ fan group, and more? Thanks.

This is the topic about all the same people, acting out the same roles...

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=9059&hilit=+all+the+actors+in+this+hoax (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=9059&hilit=+all+the+actors+in+this+hoax)

And I totally agree about them maybe being friends, playing a role for MJ, BUT, wouldn't the real Ambulance paramedics, who are the original staff at station 71, come forward and say "HEY... THATS NOT US!!!!  WE WEREN"T THERE !!!"  That would ruin everything for the hoax, and illusion.  IMO..
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: mjptd on March 10, 2011, 07:09:44 AM
I think that the paramedics are involved. If the photo ambulance is a false why none of them said nothing to the press? For example, that the man in the picture is not the same that have relief
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 10, 2011, 07:33:31 AM
How many alternatives do we have?

1.They are not in the hoax because there is no hoax and Michael died.
2.They are not in the hoax and somebody else died, but why they didn't say the ambulance pic is a fake?
3.They are in the hoax and somebody else died.
4.They are in the hoax and nobody died, there was a dummy.

But it's not that simple because we also have to consider if the following were real:
-  the 911 call
-  the ambulance
-  the fire dept. car
-  the paramedics
-  the UCLA doctors
What I missed?

Who has time to solve k-combinations of n?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: trustno1 on March 10, 2011, 07:34:58 AM
Agreed.  The silence from the paramedics and the fact that they were conveniently not photographed so their faces were visible is just too convenient.   ;)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: wishingstar on March 10, 2011, 07:56:36 AM
GINAFELICIA said:
"Who has time to solve k-combinations of n?"


It does feel like an ever growing Pascal Triangle at times, lol! Or maybe I should say Pascal Pyramid! ;)
Blessings to you GINAFELICIA! Have a great day!
Wishingstar
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MissG on March 10, 2011, 08:00:25 AM
Quote from: "2good2btrue"
Quote from: "MJonmind"
Indeed where are all the many competing paps for house or UCLA on June 25, only Ben's company.

Quote from: "bec"
If a tree falls in the forest and there's no one around to hear it, does it make a sound?
:lol:

Does anyone remember way back there was either a video or a post focusing on faces that seemed to reappear for different roles in the hoax as in actors/actresses, like in the earlier Murray court preliminaries, security guards, a particular MJ fan group, and more? Thanks.

This is the topic about all the same people, acting out the same roles...

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=9059&hilit=+all+the+actors+in+this+hoax (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=9059&hilit=+all+the+actors+in+this+hoax)

And I totally agree about them maybe being friends, playing a role for MJ, BUT, wouldn't the real Ambulance paramedics, who are the original staff at station 71, come forward and say "HEY... THATS NOT US!!!!  WE WEREN"T THERE !!!"  That would ruin everything for the hoax, and illusion.  IMO..

Great thread! Need to read it!
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: wishingstar on March 10, 2011, 08:49:22 AM
I have always found this video interesting:
[youtube:3m2fshv1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMB5gfcVChg[/youtube:3m2fshv1]

I don't think if I walked up to a fire station in my town, I'd be able to film an ambulance like that.  Has anyone from forum tried this.....anyone live there close enough?  I would in a heartbeat......I'd love to see eye to eye any of company 71.  In the video here, the fireman on duty conveniently says the people on duty for Michael's call are out.  Is this really station 71?  I think so.  Here is an article about a pancake Breakfast Breakfast they hosted :
http://www.bigwheelmagazine.com/around_ ... e-13-2010/ (http://www.bigwheelmagazine.com/around_town/pancake-breakfast-at-fire-station-71-of-the-los-angeles-fire-department-los-angeles-ca-june-13-2010/)
Anyone look familiar?  Paramedics?  

Blessings Always!
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: suspicious mind on March 10, 2011, 08:52:54 AM
umm let me see if i can say this in a way that is understandable. sometimes say like in a murder situation there is evidence that is not released because it is something only the murderer would know. now what if that is the reason that the paramedics have not said the photo is fake? because that is something only the person responsible for making it and getting it out should know ? i guess that would me that the paramedics would be under some kind of gag order maybe?  :?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: paula-c on March 10, 2011, 08:55:42 AM
Quote
Pages 13-15:

a) External exam & remarks:


1- The body is identified by toe tag (Federal law states that all the deceased be swabbed for DNA analysis & have their information entered into the newly created DNA bank. There’s no indication of any sort of DNA test in this case. There’s no indication of why they didn't finger print the deceased, although this is the most common method of IDing a body especially since they had Michael’s finger prints on file from the 2005 booking )

2- The body was refrigerated un-embalmed & there’s no indication of future embalmment & whether it is going to be done at the coroner’s or at the mortuary.

{** Interesting Observation: The autopsy did not take place till 6/26/09 & as mentioned above the body was refrigerated, however on page 13, the coroner conducting the autopsy mentions presence of ETT (Endo-Tracheal Tube that they inserted in his throat to make sure the airway is open & to give him oxygen, remember the infamous ambulance picture & also look back at my previous posts on the autopsy analysis) It is absolutely BIZARRE to have the body refrigerated with the ETT still in place. Because rigor mortis is going to happen & also the cold is going to stiffen the muscles & it will be hard to extract the tube. ALWAYS all the medical extensions must be removed from the body before refrigerating it & before the rigor mortis sets in, otherwise you're jeopardizing the autopsy & it's accuracy, because you will be damaging the tissues & organs. Also the IABP (intra aortic balloon pump) & CL (central lines including IVs) are said to be still in place at the time of the autopsy. neither myself nor my professor who is a trained coroner has ever seen anything like this. this is either a typo or if they indeed leave this items in his body & refrigerated it they have compromised the accuracy of the autopsy.}


3- The body weighs 136 lb = 62 Kg


4- The body’s height is 69 inches = 5.75 ft = 175.26 cm ( Michael’s height according to his driver’s license & passport is 5.9 ft = 179.83 cm )


5- Lower back has 1/4-1/2 inch (0.64-1.27 cm)pre-mortem abrasions which are thought to be caused by some sort of beads found on the deceased’s bed as shown in the scene photographs.


6- A condom catheter is present. [Condom catheter sits over the penis & allows a person to empty his bladder without using a urinal, bedpan, or toilet.]


7- Gauze pads are seen on the right side of the neck, both left & right antecubital fossa (triangular cavity of elbow joint where they usually draw blood from) and left forearm.


8- The central chest has an irregular abrasion of the following size: 1.1/2 x 1.1/4 inch = 3.81 x 3.18 cm. This abrasion is surrounded by a bruise of the following size: 3 x 3 inch = 7.62 x 7.62 cm (could be caused by CPR)


9- The soft tissue of the left anterior chest (left bosom) shows a 3.1/2 x 2 inch = 8.89 x 5.08 cm bruise (could be caused by CPR)


10- The soft tissue of the right anterior chest (right bosom) shows a 5 x 3.12 inch = 12.7 x 8.89 cm bruise (could be caused by CPR)


11- The sternum ( long thin bone that connect the ribs in the middle of the chest) is fractured at 3rd rib.


12- Both right & left 4th & 5th ribs are fractured at the rib junction to the sternum bone.

13- Behind both left & right ears a 3/4 inch = 1.9 cm scar is visible

14- A 3/5 inch = 1.52 cm scar on outer wall of each nostril, both right & left

15- Top of right shoulder bears an irregular scar-like area with a diameter of 4 inches = 10.16 cm

16- On the back side of the neck, right at the base, there are two visible scars, the one on the right side measures about 3 inches = 7.62 cm & the one on the left side measures about 3.3/4 inches = 9.53 cm

17- Both left & right wrist bear a scar measuring to 1/8 inch = 0.32 cm (there’s no indication whether this scar appears on the front or back side of the wrist)

18- The inside of the arm, close to the triangular cavity of the elbow joint bears a scar measuring to 1/4 inch = 0.64 cm

19- There’s a scar measuring to 7/8 inch = 2.22 cm on the muscle on the palm of the hand just beneath the thumb of the right hand.

20- Right lower quadrant (in medicine we refer to this section of human body as RLQ & it bears the following important organs in males: cecum, appendix, ascending colon, right ureter), the RLQ of the deceased bears a 2 inch = 5.08 cm surgical scar (however later on the report we notice that none of the organs in the RLQ are missing & to claim this scar as a surgical scar just seems bizarre & inaccurate.)

21- There’s a 5/8 inch = 1.6 cm scar around the navel

22- The right knee bears a semicircular scar & few other smaller scars are located at a distance from it, measuring 1/2 to 1/4 inch = 1/27 to 0.64 cm

23- The front of right leg has a 5 x 2.1/2 inch = 12.7 x 6.35 cm area of hyper-pigmentation

24- There are dark tattoos on both eyebrows, eyelids (lower & upper) and on the front half of the scalp. There is also a pink tattoo around the lips.

25- Focal de-pigmentation of skin especially over the front of the chest and abdomen, face & arms (this could be due to his vitiliago)

26- Rigor mortis (rigidity of muscles that happens after death) is present in limbs & jaw. Lividity is fixed (meaning the skin color has turned purple due to the pooling of blood after death & even after applying pressure the color stays purple which means the person has been dead for more than 10 hrs.)

27- There are no abnormalities seen on the head & it is partly covered by black hair which is short & tightly curled. The front of head has some balding.

28- The eyes are brown and the white part of the eye is free of any abnormal coloration. There’s no purple hemorrhage of the inner side of the eye lids.

29- The passage connecting the nose & the mouth is unobstructed.

30- A bandage is seen on the tip of the nose

31- It is stated that he neck is unremarkable (this is a contradiction to previous statements pointing out all the marks & scars on the neck!!!!)

32- There’s no chest deformity, both outer & inner wall of chest seem normal.

33- Penis is uncircumcised

34- The exterior & surface of the body doesn’t show any swelling or deformation or abnormality

35- It is mentioned that the body was not clothed. This is very ambiguous, as earlier in the report, when the body was in the hospital it was mentioned that the deceased was wearing a hospital gown. It is common to submit all the deceased clothing to the coroner for investigation. I doubt Michael arrived to the hospital naked & I doubt they transferred his body to the coroner’s office naked.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

viewtopic.php?f=40&t=11440 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=11440)

Ethical issuesCardiopulmonary resuscitation and advanced cardiac life support are not always the interest of a person. This is especially true in the case of terminal illness when resuscitation would not alter the outcome of the disease . Properly performed CPR often fractures cause rib , especially in patients older or who have osteoporosis . Defibrillation, especially repeated several times as required by the protocols of advanced cardiac life support, can cause burns  electricity . Internal cardiac massage, another procedure of advanced cardiac life support performed by emergency medicine physicians need to open the rib cage, which is painful during the weeks of recovery.

Not surprisingly, some people with a terminal illness choose to avoid such actions "heroic" and receive only a palliative treatment .

People who wish to seek treatment for a cardiac arrest should discuss these wishes with your doctor and your family.
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parada_cardiorrespiratoria (http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parada_cardiorrespiratoria)
It is also important that these views are aimed somewhere in the medical record. In the event of cardiac arrest, professionals health need to act quickly based on available information. As often cardiac arrest occurs outside regular hours, the resuscitation team rarely includes someone who knows the patient.

A patient can ask your doctor to file a Do Not Resuscitate order (DNR, for its acronym in English ) in the medical record. Alternatively, in many jurisdictions, a person may formally indicate their wishes in an "advance directive" or "advanced health care directive" (ie, is a document which indicates legal in how you want to be treated if seriously ill and no hope recovery).
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MissG on March 10, 2011, 08:55:49 AM
Quote from: "suspicious mind"
umm let me see if i can say this in a way that is understandable. sometimes say like in a murder situation there is evidence that is not released because it is something only the murderer would know. now what if that is the reason that the paramedics have not said the photo is fake? because that is something only the person responsible for making it and getting it out should know ? i guess that would me that the paramedics would be under some kind of gag order maybe?  :?


To me the question is:
Why would medias display the same pic but with clear differences between them from the same event (the ambo pic)?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: paula-c on March 10, 2011, 08:56:23 AM
Quote
Pages 13-15:

a) External exam & remarks:


1- The body is identified by toe tag (Federal law states that all the deceased be swabbed for DNA analysis & have their information entered into the newly created DNA bank. There’s no indication of any sort of DNA test in this case. There’s no indication of why they didn't finger print the deceased, although this is the most common method of IDing a body especially since they had Michael’s finger prints on file from the 2005 booking )

2- The body was refrigerated un-embalmed & there’s no indication of future embalmment & whether it is going to be done at the coroner’s or at the mortuary.

{** Interesting Observation: The autopsy did not take place till 6/26/09 & as mentioned above the body was refrigerated, however on page 13, the coroner conducting the autopsy mentions presence of ETT (Endo-Tracheal Tube that they inserted in his throat to make sure the airway is open & to give him oxygen, remember the infamous ambulance picture & also look back at my previous posts on the autopsy analysis) It is absolutely BIZARRE to have the body refrigerated with the ETT still in place. Because rigor mortis is going to happen & also the cold is going to stiffen the muscles & it will be hard to extract the tube. ALWAYS all the medical extensions must be removed from the body before refrigerating it & before the rigor mortis sets in, otherwise you're jeopardizing the autopsy & it's accuracy, because you will be damaging the tissues & organs. Also the IABP (intra aortic balloon pump) & CL (central lines including IVs) are said to be still in place at the time of the autopsy. neither myself nor my professor who is a trained coroner has ever seen anything like this. this is either a typo or if they indeed leave this items in his body & refrigerated it they have compromised the accuracy of the autopsy.}


3- The body weighs 136 lb = 62 Kg


4- The body’s height is 69 inches = 5.75 ft = 175.26 cm ( Michael’s height according to his driver’s license & passport is 5.9 ft = 179.83 cm )


5- Lower back has 1/4-1/2 inch (0.64-1.27 cm)pre-mortem abrasions which are thought to be caused by some sort of beads found on the deceased’s bed as shown in the scene photographs.


6- A condom catheter is present. [Condom catheter sits over the penis & allows a person to empty his bladder without using a urinal, bedpan, or toilet.]


7- Gauze pads are seen on the right side of the neck, both left & right antecubital fossa (triangular cavity of elbow joint where they usually draw blood from) and left forearm.


8- The central chest has an irregular abrasion of the following size: 1.1/2 x 1.1/4 inch = 3.81 x 3.18 cm. This abrasion is surrounded by a bruise of the following size: 3 x 3 inch = 7.62 x 7.62 cm (could be caused by CPR)


9- The soft tissue of the left anterior chest (left bosom) shows a 3.1/2 x 2 inch = 8.89 x 5.08 cm bruise (could be caused by CPR)


10- The soft tissue of the right anterior chest (right bosom) shows a 5 x 3.12 inch = 12.7 x 8.89 cm bruise (could be caused by CPR)


11- The sternum ( long thin bone that connect the ribs in the middle of the chest) is fractured at 3rd rib.


12- Both right & left 4th & 5th ribs are fractured at the rib junction to the sternum bone.

13- Behind both left & right ears a 3/4 inch = 1.9 cm scar is visible

14- A 3/5 inch = 1.52 cm scar on outer wall of each nostril, both right & left

15- Top of right shoulder bears an irregular scar-like area with a diameter of 4 inches = 10.16 cm

16- On the back side of the neck, right at the base, there are two visible scars, the one on the right side measures about 3 inches = 7.62 cm & the one on the left side measures about 3.3/4 inches = 9.53 cm

17- Both left & right wrist bear a scar measuring to 1/8 inch = 0.32 cm (there’s no indication whether this scar appears on the front or back side of the wrist)

18- The inside of the arm, close to the triangular cavity of the elbow joint bears a scar measuring to 1/4 inch = 0.64 cm

19- There’s a scar measuring to 7/8 inch = 2.22 cm on the muscle on the palm of the hand just beneath the thumb of the right hand.

20- Right lower quadrant (in medicine we refer to this section of human body as RLQ & it bears the following important organs in males: cecum, appendix, ascending colon, right ureter), the RLQ of the deceased bears a 2 inch = 5.08 cm surgical scar (however later on the report we notice that none of the organs in the RLQ are missing & to claim this scar as a surgical scar just seems bizarre & inaccurate.)

21- There’s a 5/8 inch = 1.6 cm scar around the navel

22- The right knee bears a semicircular scar & few other smaller scars are located at a distance from it, measuring 1/2 to 1/4 inch = 1/27 to 0.64 cm

23- The front of right leg has a 5 x 2.1/2 inch = 12.7 x 6.35 cm area of hyper-pigmentation

24- There are dark tattoos on both eyebrows, eyelids (lower & upper) and on the front half of the scalp. There is also a pink tattoo around the lips.

25- Focal de-pigmentation of skin especially over the front of the chest and abdomen, face & arms (this could be due to his vitiliago)

26- Rigor mortis (rigidity of muscles that happens after death) is present in limbs & jaw. Lividity is fixed (meaning the skin color has turned purple due to the pooling of blood after death & even after applying pressure the color stays purple which means the person has been dead for more than 10 hrs.)

27- There are no abnormalities seen on the head & it is partly covered by black hair which is short & tightly curled. The front of head has some balding.

28- The eyes are brown and the white part of the eye is free of any abnormal coloration. There’s no purple hemorrhage of the inner side of the eye lids.

29- The passage connecting the nose & the mouth is unobstructed.

30- A bandage is seen on the tip of the nose

31- It is stated that he neck is unremarkable (this is a contradiction to previous statements pointing out all the marks & scars on the neck!!!!)

32- There’s no chest deformity, both outer & inner wall of chest seem normal.

33- Penis is uncircumcised

34- The exterior & surface of the body doesn’t show any swelling or deformation or abnormality

35- It is mentioned that the body was not clothed. This is very ambiguous, as earlier in the report, when the body was in the hospital it was mentioned that the deceased was wearing a hospital gown. It is common to submit all the deceased clothing to the coroner for investigation. I doubt Michael arrived to the hospital naked & I doubt they transferred his body to the coroner’s office naked.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

viewtopic.php?f=40&t=11440 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=11440)

Ethical issuesCardiopulmonary resuscitation and advanced cardiac life support are not always the interest of a person. This is especially true in the case of terminal illness when resuscitation would not alter the outcome of the disease . Properly performed CPR often fractures cause rib , especially in patients older or who have osteoporosis . Defibrillation, especially repeated several times as required by the protocols of advanced cardiac life support, can cause burns  electricity . Internal cardiac massage, another procedure of advanced cardiac life support performed by emergency medicine physicians need to open the rib cage, which is painful during the weeks of recovery.

Not surprisingly, some people with a terminal illness choose to avoid such actions "heroic" and receive only a palliative treatment .

People who wish to seek treatment for a cardiac arrest should discuss these wishes with your doctor and your family.
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parada_cardiorrespiratoria (http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parada_cardiorrespiratoria)
It is also important that these views are aimed somewhere in the medical record. In the event of cardiac arrest, professionals health need to act quickly based on available information. As often cardiac arrest occurs outside regular hours, the resuscitation team rarely includes someone who knows the patient.

A patient can ask your doctor to file a Do Not Resuscitate order (DNR, for its acronym in English ) in the medical record. Alternatively, in many jurisdictions, a person may formally indicate their wishes in an "advance directive" or "advanced health care directive" (ie, is a document which indicates legal in how you want to be treated if seriously ill and no hope recovery).
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: paula-c on March 10, 2011, 09:11:01 AM
Quote
Endocrine System:

1.- The Thymus is not identified. [this report gets bizarre page by page, apparently the coroner was not able to find the thymus, so the dead body is missing his thymus. The thymus is a specialized organ of the immune system. In lupus patients the whole immune system becomes over active attacking the body’s tissues & organs. However in HIV AIDS patients the thymus will be damaged to the point that it cannot be identified in the body. Another cause for missing the thymus is a very rare birth defect called the Digeorge Syndrome, however people suffering from this syndrome have certain facial features that make them stand out, very much similar to Down Syndrome. We know Michael didn’t have Digeorge Syndrome, there’s no mention of the deceased body having HIV, so why is the thymus missing? I can’t find a medical explanation for it!!!!
It is worth mentioning that removal of Thymus is highly unconventional & dangerous, the only time that a surgeon might decide to remove a thymus is in infants with sever heart defects that require heart surgery, the thymus in these cases sometimes have to be removed in order for the surgeon to have an unobstructed access to the heart. however this is not the case in older children or adults. Another very rare case that requires removal of thymus, which again I insist is very rare & it's a tough choice for a surgeon to make, is if a patient is suffering from Myasthenia gravis. Myasthenia gravis is a neuro-muscular disease leading to severe fluctuation of muscles & weakness & fatiguability. Again not all the cases of Myasthenia gravis require removal of thymus. Removal of thymus bears sever neurological side effects & it is a contributing factor in death of HIV patients. So why is the body missing the Thymus?]


viewtopic.php?f=40&t=11440 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=11440)


What I mean with the last two post is that propablemte someone die that day in the house and the paramedicos not to recognize Michael, now the assumptions paramedicos that are in the ambulance can be actors.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: wishingstar on March 10, 2011, 09:30:48 AM
paula-c said:  Endocrine System:

1.- The Thymus is not identified. [this report gets bizarre page by page, apparently the coroner was not able to find the thymus, so the dead body is missing his thymus. The thymus is a specialized organ of the immune system. In lupus patients the whole immune system becomes over active attacking the body’s tissues & organs. However in HIV AIDS patients the thymus will be damaged to the point that it cannot be identified in the body. Another cause for missing the thymus is a very rare birth defect called the Digeorge Syndrome, however people suffering from this syndrome have certain facial features that make them stand out, very much similar to Down Syndrome. We know Michael didn’t have Digeorge Syndrome, there’s no mention of the deceased body having HIV, so why is the thymus missing? I can’t find a medical explanation for it!!!!
It is worth mentioning that removal of Thymus is highly unconventional & dangerous, the only time that a surgeon might decide to remove a thymus is in infants with sever heart defects that require heart surgery, the thymus in these cases sometimes have to be removed in order for the surgeon to have an unobstructed access to the heart. however this is not the case in older children or adults. Another very rare case that requires removal of thymus, which again I insist is very rare & it's a tough choice for a surgeon to make, is if a patient is suffering from Myasthenia gravis. Myasthenia gravis is a neuro-muscular disease leading to severe fluctuation of muscles & weakness & fatiguability. Again not all the cases of Myasthenia gravis require removal of thymus. Removal of thymus bears sever neurological side effects & it is a contributing factor in death of HIV patients. So why is the body missing the Thymus?]



Unfortunately, I can tell you from personal experience, the removal of the Thymus is very dangerous....my mother passed from Myasthenia.  She was incredibly weak afterwards, people did not recognize her in the end...I'm done....gotta go cry.  
Love to all...............Wishingstar
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: suspicious mind on March 10, 2011, 09:37:57 AM
Quote from: "wishingstar"
paula-c said:  Endocrine System:

1.- The Thymus is not identified. [this report gets bizarre page by page, apparently the coroner was not able to find the thymus, so the dead body is missing his thymus. The thymus is a specialized organ of the immune system. In lupus patients the whole immune system becomes over active attacking the body’s tissues & organs. However in HIV AIDS patients the thymus will be damaged to the point that it cannot be identified in the body. Another cause for missing the thymus is a very rare birth defect called the Digeorge Syndrome, however people suffering from this syndrome have certain facial features that make them stand out, very much similar to Down Syndrome. We know Michael didn’t have Digeorge Syndrome, there’s no mention of the deceased body having HIV, so why is the thymus missing? I can’t find a medical explanation for it!!!!
It is worth mentioning that removal of Thymus is highly unconventional & dangerous, the only time that a surgeon might decide to remove a thymus is in infants with sever heart defects that require heart surgery, the thymus in these cases sometimes have to be removed in order for the surgeon to have an unobstructed access to the heart. however this is not the case in older children or adults. Another very rare case that requires removal of thymus, which again I insist is very rare & it's a tough choice for a surgeon to make, is if a patient is suffering from Myasthenia gravis. Myasthenia gravis is a neuro-muscular disease leading to severe fluctuation of muscles & weakness & fatiguability. Again not all the cases of Myasthenia gravis require removal of thymus. Removal of thymus bears sever neurological side effects & it is a contributing factor in death of HIV patients. So why is the body missing the Thymus?]



Unfortunately, I can tell you from personal experience, the removal of the Thymus is very dangerous....my mother passed from Myasthenia.  She was incredibly weak afterwards, people did not recognize her in the end...I'm done....gotta go cry.  
Love to all...............Wishingstar
:cry: so sorry dear one. consider yourself hugged
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: paula-c on March 10, 2011, 09:48:21 AM
wishingstar In truth i am sorry :cry:
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 10, 2011, 09:49:15 AM
Sorry to hear that about your mom wishingstar...
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on March 10, 2011, 10:30:56 AM
Quote from: "wishingstar"
paula-c said:  Endocrine System:

1.- The Thymus is not identified. [this report gets bizarre page by page, apparently the coroner was not able to find the thymus, so the dead body is missing his thymus. The thymus is a specialized organ of the immune system. In lupus patients the whole immune system becomes over active attacking the body’s tissues & organs. However in HIV AIDS patients the thymus will be damaged to the point that it cannot be identified in the body. Another cause for missing the thymus is a very rare birth defect called the Digeorge Syndrome, however people suffering from this syndrome have certain facial features that make them stand out, very much similar to Down Syndrome. We know Michael didn’t have Digeorge Syndrome, there’s no mention of the deceased body having HIV, so why is the thymus missing? I can’t find a medical explanation for it!!!!
It is worth mentioning that removal of Thymus is highly unconventional & dangerous, the only time that a surgeon might decide to remove a thymus is in infants with sever heart defects that require heart surgery, the thymus in these cases sometimes have to be removed in order for the surgeon to have an unobstructed access to the heart. however this is not the case in older children or adults. Another very rare case that requires removal of thymus, which again I insist is very rare & it's a tough choice for a surgeon to make, is if a patient is suffering from Myasthenia gravis. Myasthenia gravis is a neuro-muscular disease leading to severe fluctuation of muscles & weakness & fatiguability. Again not all the cases of Myasthenia gravis require removal of thymus. Removal of thymus bears sever neurological side effects & it is a contributing factor in death of HIV patients. So why is the body missing the Thymus?]



Unfortunately, I can tell you from personal experience, the removal of the Thymus is very dangerous....my mother passed from Myasthenia.  She was incredibly weak afterwards, people did not recognize her in the end...I'm done....gotta go cry.  
Love to all...............Wishingstar

Sorry to hear that Whishingstar, my prayers are with you. Blessings.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on March 10, 2011, 10:35:38 AM
Quote from: "paula-c"
Quote
Endocrine System:

1.- The Thymus is not identified. [this report gets bizarre page by page, apparently the coroner was not able to find the thymus, so the dead body is missing his thymus. The thymus is a specialized organ of the immune system. In lupus patients the whole immune system becomes over active attacking the body’s tissues & organs. However in HIV AIDS patients the thymus will be damaged to the point that it cannot be identified in the body. Another cause for missing the thymus is a very rare birth defect called the Digeorge Syndrome, however people suffering from this syndrome have certain facial features that make them stand out, very much similar to Down Syndrome. We know Michael didn’t have Digeorge Syndrome, there’s no mention of the deceased body having HIV, so why is the thymus missing? I can’t find a medical explanation for it!!!!
It is worth mentioning that removal of Thymus is highly unconventional & dangerous, the only time that a surgeon might decide to remove a thymus is in infants with sever heart defects that require heart surgery, the thymus in these cases sometimes have to be removed in order for the surgeon to have an unobstructed access to the heart. however this is not the case in older children or adults. Another very rare case that requires removal of thymus, which again I insist is very rare & it's a tough choice for a surgeon to make, is if a patient is suffering from Myasthenia gravis. Myasthenia gravis is a neuro-muscular disease leading to severe fluctuation of muscles & weakness & fatiguability. Again not all the cases of Myasthenia gravis require removal of thymus. Removal of thymus bears sever neurological side effects & it is a contributing factor in death of HIV patients. So why is the body missing the Thymus?]


viewtopic.php?f=40&t=11440 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=11440)


What I mean with the last two post is that propablemte someone die that day in the house and the paramedicos not to recognize Michael, now the assumptions paramedicos that are in the ambulance can be actors.


If this person was missing his thymus it was not Michael. I had a childhood friend who had lupus, well she passed away at the age of 49 about 4 yrs ago, she had her thymus, nothing was missing. The ironic thing she did not die because of lupus, but because she had a pneumonia.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on March 10, 2011, 11:16:53 AM
Good Morning Family!  :mrgreen:

I am going to address the issue of someone calling 911 in a non-emergency situation. I have read that some of you feel/think that it is not ok to call 911 and that whoever does would be in trouble. True they would be in trouble just like this woman below. In a perfect world no one would abuse the 911 function. Since we do not live in a perfect world 911 is called ALL THE TIME for nonsense. There is no way that the court system can keep up with prosecuting every false call.

IMO the theory of 911 being called on the day of death being a FAKE call doesn't hold up. I believe that the call was REAL and that REAL paramedics responded and found a REAL patient.

As for the court...It is IMO a REAL court room with a REAL judge. The lawyers are REAL. The courts are filled with bogus charges and railroaded defendants ALL the time. False charges and made up evidence happened in Michael's trial in 2005. I do not see how what he is doing now is any different than what Snake Sneddon did to him then.

Think about how many people are falsely accused of stuff everyday. There is no way to know what is what until Justice is served. Justice is served when an accused person has their day in court. Justice is served when the system works. The accused has the right to a jury trial. The accused has the right to have evidence (whether false or real) heard by that jury and the accused must be found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt or they must be acquitted.

That is how Justice is served.  ;) Michael is exposing the corruption in Los Angeles.

I do think more people need to realize that everything happening in this court case does happen on a daily to regular folks (non celebs) and just because we know it to be a hoax doesn't mean the others who think they are really prosecuting Murray know. They really believe they have a Murderer!  :shock:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,504125,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,504125,00.html)
Quote
A Florida woman called 911 three times after she paid for a 10-piece Chicken McNuggets at a McDonald's but the fast-food restaurant ran out of them and refused to give her a refund.
(http://www.foxnews.com/images/516087/2_61_030309_mcnuggets_911.jpg)
Latreasa L. Goodman, 27, made the calls after she tried to get her money back from a Fort Pierce McDonald's and the cashier told her all sales were final. Police released the 911 tapes.

"This is an emergency. If I would have known they didn't have McNuggets, I wouldn't have given my money, and now she wants to give me a McDouble, but I don't want one," police quoted her as saying. "This is an emergency."

The cashier suggested she choose something else off the menu of equal value to the McNuggets, and offered the restaurant's cheeseburger called the McDouble.

"She's trying to force me to eat something off the menu and I don't want it," Goodman told 911.

The first dispatcher, a woman, asks if there's a manager there, but listens to Goodman's complaints and says she's sending someone.

The second, male dispatcher tells her he's aware of the incident and "we've got an officer coming out there to talk to you."

Police say Goodman was cited on a misuse of 911 charge. A current phone listing for Goodman couldn't be found.

A McDonald's spokesman said Goodman should have been given a refund, and she's being sent a gift card for a free meal.
 
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Do on March 10, 2011, 11:18:55 AM
Quote from: "Sarahli"
Quote from: "Do"
Quote from: "Do"
Hi guys,
I'm not an avid reader of TS' posts (I truly apologize for that  :oops: ) so maybe I do not understand the value of his post, but my question is what's the use of trying to figure this all out? I thought that, now we are (hopefully) getting closer to a possible bam, there will be more important reasons to learn about this hoax. I feel that this post of TS does not add any important information, except the fact Michaels death really was fake and staged. But we came to that conclusion a long time ago right? I haven't post much lately because I had the feeling we were running around in circles and I get that same feeling once again with this particular post. I hope someone can explain to me what's the reason for this post, what kind of information in it will help us to UNDERSTAND the reasons of the hoax? Hugs

I must have asked a really stupid question, because noone took the time to give me a (short) answer. I know I do not belong to the group of regular posters, but I'm a bit disappointed and I feel ignored. We can continue to repeat the same old stuff again and again but my question is: what's the use of it and aren't there much more important things to learn whether it is or isn't the same ambulance? Please fill me in!

Dear Do  :)  I have read your post but didn't know how to answer. For my part I'm just interested and curious about the hows of this hoax. I will say that trying to find out how things have been done will help us understand the reasons of the hoax because obviously when we dissect the hows we clearly see that a great length of time and risks have been necessary/taken in order to create it and make it possible. So it is not just for entertainment purposes. It will also certainly help us understand the upcoming trial. I don't know if it makes sense.

Dear Sharali, I'm sorry I didn't see your answer to me earlier! I want to thank you for your  explanation and yes it does make sense! I understand what you are saying and it helps me  to understand of TS' post better, but on the other hand, I still have the feeling that the smallest details are addressed again and again, I mean, the 'shadows' in the ambulance, what does that add to the investigation? I had expected and hoped that at this stage in the hoax, more important issues should be discussed through TS.
Thanks again! Hugs
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: wishingstar on March 10, 2011, 11:55:26 AM
Thank you from the bottom of my heart for the messages about my mom.  Through this whole process I have revisited much of my personal pains in life.  It's one of the things that kept me from joining this forum at first.  However, when I saw how much you supported each other with things like this.....I knew I'd be ok here.  The subject of death is truly painful for most people...naturally.  I truly appreciate the sweet words and love.  If going to the dark places of my heart, helps this investigation...I'll go.  
Thank you again from the very bottom of my heart.
Wishingstar
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: TS_comments on March 10, 2011, 12:12:48 PM
Quote from: PureLove
Quote from: TS_comments
Quote from: mdc
Just wondering...
Do you think the cabinet from the pictures match the cabinet from the video? Wouldn't that white border show up in the pictures?

(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12209)

(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12208)


Good catch!  I'm glad somebody noticed this--it is one of the "secrets" that I have been planning on pointing out, if nobody found it.  But I'm always glad when someone else finds it first.  There is one more thing about this that I will include later, if nobody else gets it first.



TS, I was wondering what the other one more thing you were going to include. Did you write it to us already or someone else has found it or are you waiting for the ambulance research/discussion to end?

So far, I haven't seen anyone find the other thing on this.  I'll give it a few more days for someone else to find it.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Do on March 10, 2011, 12:25:08 PM
Quote from: "wishingstar"
Thank you from the bottom of my heart for the messages about my mom.  Through this whole process I have revisited much of my personal pains in life.  It's one of the things that kept me from joining this forum at first.  However, when I saw how much you supported each other with things like this.....I knew I'd be ok here.  The subject of death is truly painful for most people...naturally.  I truly appreciate the sweet words and love.  If going to the dark places of my heart, helps this investigation...I'll go.  
Thank you again from the very bottom of my heart.
Wishingstar

Dear Wishingstar,
Just like you comfort me with your pm to me, I want to say that my thoughts are with you right now. Big hug!
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on March 10, 2011, 01:17:07 PM
Quote from: "wishingstar"
Here is an article about a pancake Breakfast Breakfast they hosted :
http://www.bigwheelmagazine.com/around_ ... e-13-2010/ (http://www.bigwheelmagazine.com/around_town/pancake-breakfast-at-fire-station-71-of-the-los-angeles-fire-department-los-angeles-ca-june-13-2010/)
Anyone look familiar? Paramedics?

Blessings Always!

Thank you for the link wishingstar. :)
http://www.teamgoonphotos.com/Random-Ha ... F/Original (http://www.teamgoonphotos.com/Random-Happenings/Breakfast-at-Fire-Station-71/12547601_GDjsM/1/900256782_D33FF/Original)
(http://www.teamgoonphotos.com/Random-Happenings/Breakfast-at-Fire-Station-71/23P1040409/900256782_D33FF-O.jpg)
This picture shows 2 men/paramedics from Fire station 71. Do you think maybe the black guy is the same one in the picture below? We only see the back of his head. The white guy posing in the picture (above) doesn't seem like the guy next to Alberto on the right. 3rd guy/paramedic is still suspect to me! lol
(http://www.bittenandbound.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/ambulance-arrives-at-hospital-with-michael-jackson.jpg)
(http://www.buzzchow.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/michael-jackson-hospital-385x386.jpg)
(http://www.cayman27.com.ky/app/webroot/files/t1home_michael_jackson_hospital_x17.jpg)
I think I may have identified the security so far as being Mike La Perruque (the guy with the mustache facing us), Alberto Alvarez (the guy with his back to us next to Murray), and who is the guy holding up his coat? Help please.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Elsa on March 10, 2011, 01:38:15 PM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
First of all, congratulations to everyone—you have been doing an excellent job on the 2-26 thread investigation!   :)   Second, today is graduation; it’s now time to take this investigation to the next level.   :o  8-)   Third, today is March 9—which is the two year anniversary of the amazing bull market rally that is still going, and which I related to God and the hoax a year ago in Update #4 (4-33).   :shock:   Fourth, speaking of update #4, that was my most detailed numerology post; and #4a was posted one year ago today (CA time), which was six months after 9-9-09.   :geek:   And fifth, speaking of numerology, it’s now time to start looking at how numerology unlocks and explains some of the hows of the hoax (in addition to explaining the when and why, which I have already discussed in great detail).

The next level means that we are now going to shift the focus from the ambulance picture (whether it was real or fake, etc) to whether or not some or all of the paramedics are in on the hoax.  Did the actual paramedics pose for a staged ambulance shot before 6-25-09?  Or did MJ use actors dressed like paramedics?  Was the ambulance photo staged with the actual #71 LAFD ambulance, or another one that looks about the same inside?  Would the real paramedics publicly deny the ambulance photo, if it was not them in the picture (and they were not in on the hoax)?

These and similar questions are now the focus of investigation.
 Yes, we have already discussed these things to some extent; but it has not been the focus before now.  You may continue discussing the ambulance photo, if you want; and please keep that discussion in the proper thread {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053}.

Of course the ambulance photo is part of the evidence related to the paramedics, so the photo will still be discussed somewhat in this thread; but try to remember the focus of discussion in this thread.  When it’s time to graduate again, I will start another thread with the focus of who or what (if anything) went to the hospital on the stretcher in the ambulance.  We might need to discuss this a little now, but it’s not the focus yet; so let’s see what we can establish about the paramedics, before we focus on that aspect.

... This is why I started our investigation process with the ambulance photo; now we know that it was planned and staged in advance, so we have a good platform upon which we can build our next level of investigation.

Please remember to use common sense, in addition to forensic investigation and raw data analysis.  For example: if the ambulance photo was staged before 6-25-09, why bother bringing the ambulance to Carolwood Drive—just to take a photo of things inside the ambulance?  Why not stage the photo elsewhere, and indoors, where there would be a very low risk of the wrong people seeing what is going on?  Also keep in mind the goals of the hoax; common sense should tell us that the only ones in on the hoax are those who need to know about it, in order to accomplish the goals.  Why would MJ spend tons of money—and greatly increase the risk of someone letting the cat out of the bag too soon—just to have dozens or hundreds of people in on the hoax, who don’t need to be in on it?

Finally, just like last time, I may play “DA” (devil's advocate)—and try to debunk things that are true, just to keep you on your toes!  Enjoy the ride!!

I don’t know how to start working out if the paramedics are ‘in on it’ or not, without addressing the ambulance issue.  I said in a previous post that the photos displayed of the ambulance at UCLA do not match (which they don’t).  Can light reflections hit the doors in such a way to make the white letters ‘para...’ on a red background change in appearance to be red letters on a white background?  I think a photo at UCLA has been altered deliberately.  Why?  Maybe so that when we look at the ambulance that we saw leave the house (supposedly with a dying Michael Jackson) we will notice that it has no reflector - which then might make us notice the other differences between the two ambulances - the silver part at the tail, and the location of the word ‘Fire’ in relation to the compartment at the top.        

I found the information I referred to in my first post in this thread. See this link for comparison photos of the ambulance leaving the house, with the ambulance at UCLA  amhttp://arvenru.wordpress.com/2010/09/01/551/ (http://amhttp://arvenru.wordpress.com/2010/09/01/551/)).  

The photo of the ambulance leaving the house that was posted by mdc is a better view of the differences and can be found in the Index page.
     
Quote from: "mdc"
It's probably just an optical illusion with the angles and everything but the ambulance in the "proof" photo looks longer to me than the one at the hospital.
[attachment=2:1rawyfh5]ambulance_4_proof_pic.jpg[/attachment:1rawyfh5]
[attachment=1:1rawyfh5]ambulance-arrives-at-hospital-with-michael-jackson.jpg[/attachment:1rawyfh5]

Quote from: "mdc"
And maybe this light/reflector on ambulance from this video looks different...not as flat?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuXRaJFdmKU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuXRaJFdmKU)

[attachment=1:1rawyfh5]ambulance light1.jpg[/attachment:1rawyfh5]

OK, I don’t have a theory yet, but I do think that understanding what's going on with the ambulances might be  important to understanding what's going on with the paramedics.  Was the fake exit of a fake ambulance filmed  'the other day' - perhaps garbage day which is Wednesday for that address.[attachment=0:1rawyfh5]1.35b Garbage bins.jpg[/attachment:1rawyfh5]
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: ijcsly on March 10, 2011, 01:46:04 PM
Elsa wrote: OK, I don’t have a theory yet, but I do think that understanding what's going on with the ambulances might be important to understanding what's going on with the paramedics. Was the fake exit of a fake ambulance filmed 'the other day' - perhaps garbage day which is Wednesday for that address


If there had been NO other witnesses i'd be inclined to agree, but there were the tourists on the starline bus who saw this happening on june 25...
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Elsa on March 10, 2011, 01:57:39 PM
Quote from: "ijcsly"
Elsa wrote: OK, I don’t have a theory yet, but I do think that understanding what's going on with the ambulances might be important to understanding what's going on with the paramedics. Was the fake exit of a fake ambulance filmed 'the other day' - perhaps garbage day which is Wednesday for that address


If there had been NO other witnesses i'd be inclined to agree, but there were the tourists on the starline bus who saw this happening on june 25...

You're right. They would come forward and say they saw it on Wednesday - unless they're part of the hoax which would increase the number involved.  mmm Still thinking...
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Andrea on March 10, 2011, 02:11:13 PM
Quote from: "Elsa"
Quote from: "ijcsly"
Elsa wrote: OK, I don’t have a theory yet, but I do think that understanding what's going on with the ambulances might be important to understanding what's going on with the paramedics. Was the fake exit of a fake ambulance filmed 'the other day' - perhaps garbage day which is Wednesday for that address


If there had been NO other witnesses i'd be inclined to agree, but there were the tourists on the starline bus who saw this happening on june 25...

You're right. They would come forward and say they saw it on Wednesday - unless they're part of the hoax which would increase the number involved.  mmm Still thinking...

I would imagine that the starline bus has a regular schedule and probably goes by the Carolwood house around the same time(s) everyday.  I think the ambulance and firetrucks at Carolwood were timed to be there around the same time on June 25th, so there would be genuine witnesses that something was happening at MJ's house.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MissG on March 10, 2011, 02:15:30 PM
I am not sure if you are asking to point to more differences.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MissG on March 10, 2011, 02:18:06 PM
My previous post was related to this quote.
Quote from: "TS_comments"
So far, I haven't seen anyone find the other thing on this.  I'll give it a few more days for someone else to find it.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: navibl on March 10, 2011, 02:22:51 PM
Quote from: "wishingstar"
Thank you from the bottom of my heart for the messages about my mom.  Through this whole process I have revisited much of my personal pains in life.  It's one of the things that kept me from joining this forum at first.  However, when I saw how much you supported each other with things like this.....I knew I'd be ok here.  The subject of death is truly painful for most people...naturally.  I truly appreciate the sweet words and love.  If going to the dark places of my heart, helps this investigation...I'll go.  
Thank you again from the very bottom of my heart.
Wishingstar

Wishingstar....I can feel your pain my Dear...I lost my Mother last June...she never told us how sick she was, it was a total shock, but we would sit and watch videos of Michael and talk about things that I would read here.  It actually was comforting for me here after she was gone because she shared this adventure here with me.  I would have never thought that God would use Michael to comfort me in a sudden loss of my mother. God is so good and Loves us so much!  God Bless you Michael!!!
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Terror2k10 on March 10, 2011, 02:32:05 PM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Quote from: "PureLove"
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Quote from: "mdc"
Just wondering...
Do you think the cabinet from the pictures match the cabinet from the video? Wouldn't that white border show up in the pictures?

(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12209)

(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12208)


Good catch!  I'm glad somebody noticed this--it is one of the "secrets" that I have been planning on pointing out, if nobody found it.  But I'm always glad when someone else finds it first.  There is one more thing about this that I will include later, if nobody else gets it first.



TS, I was wondering what the other one more thing you were going to include. Did you write it to us already or someone else has found it or are you waiting for the ambulance research/discussion to end?

So far, I haven't seen anyone find the other thing on this.  I'll give it a few more days for someone else to find it.
I focused on the pictures of the inside of the ambulance. It looks like stuff is placed on the opposite side,seems like the other side of the mirror.I know I am probably wrong I think maybe I just focused to hard on the picture... :shock: .lol
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 10, 2011, 03:19:06 PM
I think we should keep the discussion of the ambulance picture in the TIAI february 26 thread, and continue here with the paramedics and their involvement.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: RunFaYaLife on March 10, 2011, 04:26:48 PM
Even the paramedics discussed the issue of privacy.
I do not believe they were involved ...other than to do their jobs.

http://connect.jems.com/forum/topics/mi ... 1#comments (http://connect.jems.com/forum/topics/michael-jackson-ems-response?id=2559935%3ATopic%3A211161&page=1#comments)

Quote
Michael Jackson EMS Response Details Emerge

JEMS.com -- There are some interesting stories and links related to the EMS response to Michael Jackson's cardiac emergency on Thursday.

TMZ is reporting that first arriving responders felt that Jackson was dead on arrival, but Jackson's personal doctor would not permit them to pronounce him dead.

The 911 called was released Friday afternoon with the caller reporting that Jackson was on a bed, not breathing and that a doctor was already attempting CPR. The caller says repeatedly Jackson was not responding to anything. "We have a gentlemen here, who needs help ... he's not breathing, we're trying to pump but ... he's not breathing." the caller says, not identifying Jackson by name. "He's unconscious."

"The LAFD received a 911 call for a 50 year old male who was not breathing and unresponsive. Engine 71 and paramedic rescue ambulance 71 responded and was on scene within a few minutes," Marc Eckstein, MD, MPH, FACEP, Medical Director of the Los Angeles Fire Department, told JEMS.com. "They found Mr. Jackson in full cardiac arrest with CPR in progress."

"LAFD members immediately took over CPR and intiated both basic and advanced life support interventions," Eckstein continued. "They aggressively attempted resuscitation on scene for approximately 30 minutes, and after consultation with on-line medical control at the UCLA base station, they continued resuscitative efforts during the short transport to the UCLA emergency department. There was no change in the patient's status during his prehospital course."

TMZ's report said there was evidence someone had been performing CPR for "quite some time" and possibly evidence of Lidocaine being administered. "He's pumping on his chest, but he's not responding to anything," the caller says as the 911 operator indicates help is on the way and instructs the caller to move Jackson from the bed to the floor.

Several videos and photos of the EMS units in action have been circulating online, including the video below of LAFD's Medic 71 and its Engine Company transporting the scene.

Oddly, at the end of the video, a bus full of tourists seeing star's homes drives by and is held up as the ambulance leaves the scene. Video shot by those tourists is posted on TMZ.com as well.

One of the most graphic photos showed up early on Entertainment Tonight's Web site, showing EMS crews working on an intubated Jackson in what appears to be the back of the paramedic unit. (Link Here -- Note this is a graphic photo OF a patient We are providing a link to this photo as it has appeared on major media for the last 24 hours). Based on other video, the photo was likely taken as the unit backed out of the driveway.

In the photo, medics can be seen doing compressions and ventilating Jackson. While this is an extreme case, it is always important to remember that cameras are everywhere now and while you may protect your patient's privacy, the public (and media) may not.

The Associated Press reported that medics tried to resuscitate Jackson for nearly three-quarters of an hour, then rushed him to the hospital, where doctors continued to work on him.

As for the doctor, he is being sought for questioning but is not a suspect in any wrongdoing at this point, according to multiple media reports. The Jackson family and others had been reported as being concerned about a possible overdose of prescription drugs. An autopsy was underway Friday.

Our friends at STATter911.com note that the pictures circulating of Medic 71 are making it the most famous ambulance in the world.

Quote
911 Call in Michael Jackson Death Released

By RAQUEL MARIA DILLON
Associated Press Writer

LOS ANGELES -- A 911 caller seeking help for Michael Jackson told an emergency operator that only a personal physician had seen what happened, and an ambulance was urgently needed because resuscitation efforts weren't working.

The Los Angeles Fire Department on Friday released a redacted audio recording of the call made Thursday by a person who only referred to Jackson as a 50-year-old man. It appeared that a mention of the phone number was deleted from the recording.

"I need an ambulance as soon as possible, sir," the caller said urgently but politely. "We have a gentlemen here that needs help and he's not breathing yet. He's not breathing and we need to _ we're trying to pump him, but he's not, he's not."

The caller reported that Jackson was on a bed and the emergency operator began to instruct him to do CPR, but stopped when the caller said that the personal physician was there.

"Oh, OK. We're on our way there. If your guy is doing CPR and you're instructed by a doctor, he's a higher authority than me. And he's on the scene," the 911 operator said.

The operator asked if anyone witnessed what happened.

"No, just the doctor, sir, the doctor was the only one there," the caller said.

"Did he see what happened?" the operator asked.

"Doctor, did you see what happened, sir?" the caller asked someone in the room. Only an urgent mumbling can be heard on the recording.

"We're on our way. It's less than a mile away from Cedars," the operator said, referring to Cedars-Sinai Medical Center.

Paramedics, however, took Jackson to Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical Center, where he was later pronounced dead.

Quote
Reply by JEMS Web Chief on June 26, 2009 at 3:26pm
    Anna, we have linked (and clarified that the photos are graphic) to a photo that is already very widely posted across the internet. This site is for EMS professionals, not the general public ... and the takeaway should be that the public is always watching (and taking photos) ... in this case through a closed ambulance door/window. There are lessons to be learned for all. There is value in understanding that even when crews think they are not being watched, recorded, etc. even on the most routine call, in these times they should expect that anything can end up online.

    (Note: User appears to have removed original comment about link to the photo taken inside Medic 71)

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Anne Marsh Permalink Reply by Anne Marsh on June 26, 2009 at 3:26pm
    Please don't be so naive.

    Anna Bonner said:

        I am really quite saddened that this forum of professionals would contribute to the distribution of photos of a patient. If this were to happen to any of our own patients, we would be outraged. Really JEMS? I thought you were better than this.

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Anna Permalink Reply by Anna on June 26, 2009 at 3:35pm
    You do realize I removed that because it has my name on it. Thanks for reposting though. I just think it is wholly unprofessional and unethical. Just because others are posting it, doesn't mean you need to. You can make your point that people are always watching without providing access to the pictures.

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the Happy Medic Permalink Reply by the Happy Medic on June 26, 2009 at 3:57pm
    Let's all remember that if I posted a photo similar to this anywhere online I would be fired and sued. This is unprofessional by the photographer and the media who choose to show it. I think having a link to it in this forum is simply hitching the cart to the publicity show.

    I personally think moving a patient of this stature out of the home and into a more secure location, like the hospital, was a scene safety decision, and a good one.

    But links to something like this on JEMS connect I think brings the forum down a notch. Will it also be the cover photo for the next JEMS magazine?

    My 2 cents
    Happy Medic

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Dawn Burrows Permalink Reply by Dawn Burrows on June 26, 2009 at 4:01pm
    Sadly there are cameras everywhere now. People use them for all types of reasons. Which means we all need to be vigilant while working not only for our own protection but that of our patient. I don't agree that it was unprofessional for JEMS to post a link to the picture that is wide spread on the net. We would have found it anyway. If it was unprofessional then you could make the argument that all pictures of patients both critical and non were unprofessional to publish. I don't think that this was published with malicious intent but in an effort to educate which is what JEMS is in the business of doing.

    I am more curious about the doctor on scene and some reports that the doctor "made" the paramedics continue to work him even though they wished to pronounce him deceased on the scene. I have the authority to pronounce patients on scene without a doctor consult. And a doctor on scene doesn't have the ability to dictate my care unless I work under his direction. But I am on the other side of the country. Are the laws in CA very different? Did the medics on scene have an obligation to work as the physician on scene dictated or was it more of a decision to reduce friction on scene?

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Dawn Burrows Permalink Reply by Dawn Burrows on June 26, 2009 at 4:11pm
    Happy do you really think moving the body of a person of that stature is a really good idea? I would think that it would be more secure behind the gates of his home, inside and away from a bus load of tourists and paprazzi. Who as we have seen will go to any lengths to get a picture or clip. He could have been moved the ME's office on a gurney and covered. then all they would have gotten was pictures of the body bag and not the indignity of having CPR preformed for all the world to see. They weren't getting past those gates or those guards. The average ER is not very secure at all. No matter what they do to try and lock it down. The moving just allows for more picture taking. Hmm You have me thinking this will make a good blog post!

    the Happy Medic said:

        Let's all remember that if I posted a photo similar to this anywhere online I would be fired and sued. This is unprofessional by the photographer and the media who choose to show it. I think having a link to it in this forum is simply hitching the cart to the publicity show.

        I personally think moving a patient of this stature out of the home and into a more secure location, like the hospital, was a scene safety decision, and a good one.

        But links to something like this on JEMS connect I think brings the forum down a notch. Will it also be the cover photo for the next JEMS magazine?

        My 2 cents
        Happy Medic

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JEMS Web Chief Permalink Reply by JEMS Web Chief on June 26, 2009 at 4:15pm
    We've added some additional information in the story from LAFD's medical director.

    Good point on both sides of the photo debate. The entire situation is what is great -- and bad -- about the Web.

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Squishymedic Permalink Reply by Squishymedic on June 26, 2009 at 4:27pm
    Is it me? Or does the 911 operator's professionalism needs a little tweeking? Not the best operator I've ever heard.

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Joe Paczkowski Permalink Reply by Joe Paczkowski on June 26, 2009 at 4:37pm
    Dawn Burrows said:

        If it was unprofessional then you could make the argument that all pictures of patients both critical and non were unprofessional to publish. I don't think that this was published with malicious intent but in an effort to educate which is what JEMS is in the business of doing.

    Sure. I'll make the argument that publishing pictures of patients outside of educational materials is unethical without written consent. Just because it's widely available doesn't mean it should be published. In riot situations, if everyone is else is looting and the like, does that all of a sudden make it ok? When programs like TLC's Trauma or Paramedics tape patients, consent is given before those video are published.
    What educational material is being passed on by the video of an ambulance backing out of a driveway or linking to a picture of Jackson being ventilated via ETT?

        I am more curious about the doctor on scene and some reports that the doctor "made" the paramedics continue to work him even though they wished to pronounce him deceased on the scene. I have the authority to pronounce patients on scene without a doctor consult. And a doctor on scene doesn't have the ability to dictate my care unless I work under his direction. But I am on the other side of the country. Are the laws in CA very different? Did the medics on scene have an obligation to work as the physician on scene dictated or was it more of a decision to reduce friction on scene?


    LA County EMS protocols:

    Cardiac arrest:

    (step 13 under asystole/PEA and step 21 for V-fib/Pulseless V-tac) If resuscitative efforts are unsuccessful, consider base contact for pronouncement.
    http://ems.dhs.lacounty.gov/ManualsProt ... FTP-CA.pdf (http://ems.dhs.lacounty.gov/ManualsProtocols/SFTP/SFTP-CA.pdf)

    Physician on scene protocol:
    http://ems.dhs.lacounty.gov/policies/Ref800/816.pdf (http://ems.dhs.lacounty.gov/policies/Ref800/816.pdf)

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Skip Kirkwood Permalink Reply by Skip Kirkwood on June 26, 2009 at 4:46pm
    Heaven help our profession! The level of whining and hypercriticality in this post take it to a new level.

    Unless you have evidence to the contrary, how about assuming (before you express your outrage) that:

    1. The medics involved are professionals and did the best they could under the circumstances.

    2. Circumstances, including celebrity, make things difficult.

    3. When a person puts themselves in the public domain, they have a lesser expectation of privacy anyway.

    4. Somebody took a picture - probably not an EMS person.

    5. Once the picture is in the public domain, it's there. You can't un-ring the bell.

    6. JEMS is here to educate us, about whatever goes on in our industry.

    Yowzer! We are like a pack of jackals with a crippled wildebeast! Tear 'em to shreds without knowing all the facts.

    Let's learn instead......

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Dawn Burrows Permalink Reply by Dawn Burrows on June 26, 2009 at 4:56pm
    Hey Joe Thanks for posting those links. I always appreciate the ability to learn what it is like somewhere else. I stand by my position that it was not unprofessional to post that link. With the intent to educate us on how easy it can be for some people to violate the inside of our trucks, I think JEMS was within their rights and we should take it as lesson learned.

    Skip,
    I am not sure if you are referring to my posts or not. If so I never intended for the impression that I was critizing the medics. We all make difficult decisions while in the course of our jobs. I don't fault them for any of the decisions that were made. I may have made some of the same ones if put in their place. I was more curious about the role that an on scene doctor can play in the decision making processes and what the rules in CA were. Joe was nice enough to clear those up for me.

    Skip Kirkwood said:

        Heaven help our profession! The level of whining and hypercriticality in this post take it to a new level.

        Unless you have evidence to the contrary, how about assuming (before you express your outrage) that:

        1. The medics involved are professionals and did the best they could under the circumstances.

        2. Circumstances, including celebrity, make things difficult.

        3. When a person puts themselves in the public domain, they have a lesser expectation of privacy anyway.

        4. Somebody took a picture - probably not an EMS person.

        5. Once the picture is in the public domain, it's there. You can't un-ring the bell.

        6. JEMS is here to educate us, about whatever goes on in our industry.

        Yowzer! We are like a pack of jackals with a crippled wildebeast! Tear 'em to shreds without knowing all the facts.

        Let's learn instead......

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Jerry Permalink Reply by Jerry on June 26, 2009 at 5:02pm
    I took a class at an EMS Today conference (in San Diego and there were 65 attendees!). One of the presenters was an attorney by the name of Jack Ayers from Dallas(?). He made the point that when the feces strikes the oscillating device, rule one is "Speak first, Speak Fast, it is the only thing EVERYBODY (his emphasis) will remember." He added," Know what you are talking about."

    Even in this topic seems like good advice to me. . .

Reply by Joe Paczkowski on June 26, 2009 at 5:04pm
    Skip:

    1, 2, 4: I agree with.

    3: I agree with, to a point. Maybe it's because I grew up in So Cal, but I honestly couldn't give two units of fecal material about celebs. They may have a lesser expectation of privacy, but you still see medical staff getting in trouble for accessing medical files of celebs and for the release of information.

    5: So what? There was a case in Orange County, CA almost 3 years ago where a teenager 'borrowed' (can't think of a good term and I don't want to go with the connotation of "stole") her father's Porshe, and promptly crashed it into a concrete toll booth at an extremely high rate of speed. Two California Highway Patrol (CHP) leaked rather graphic photos of the incident. I would make the same argument that it would be unethical for JEMS to publish pictures of that accident as part of a "Girl borrows Porshe and dies in a horrible crash" piece. Now something along the lines of 'Be careful taking pictures on scene' with one of the non-graphic pictures accompanying the article would be completely different.

    6. How is Michael Jackson dying news worthy in an EMS context? Seriously, a two sentence blurb about cameras and privacy doesn't really cut it.

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Skip Kirkwood Permalink Reply by Skip Kirkwood on June 26, 2009 at 5:39pm
    3. The medical staff shouldn't do that - it's a violation of oh so many things. Not the point here. These were lay-person photos. Celebs expect their lives to be invaded by the public, the paperazzi, etc.

    5. Again, shame on the CHPs - profssionally inappropriate. Graphic? Non-graphic? Matter of judgment. Me, I don't consider a pix of a guy being resuscitated to be graphic. But then again, for 30+ years I've been in an environment (EMS) where every possible injury, illness, body part and function are discussed over coffee and donuts.

    6. The physician-on-scene issues and M71 issues are interesting, and perhaps called to more attention by the fact that involved a celebrity. Gotta start somewhere - if JEMS took the time to make every story firmly educational, they would be forever trumped by someone else's reporting.

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Joe Paczkowski Permalink Reply by Joe Paczkowski on June 26, 2009 at 5:47pm
    5. I agree that the picture of Jackson is not graphic at all. The Orange County picture, on the other hand, is something that you would see on the shock style websites.

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the Happy Medic Permalink Reply by the Happy Medic on June 26, 2009 at 6:32pm
    Imagine Medic 71 declares, under protocols to terminate reciscitative efforts, or not begin them, again under protocols, they have to await ME arrival for chain of custody. Now imagine M71 trapped in that litle cul de sac/driveway/neighborhood as the press arrive and swarm, as they always do. The UCLA Medical Center (not every little ER, I know) has their own police force and security staff able to establish a perimiter and handle the barrage of media and onlookers.

    I think a more important topic of discussion in the JEMS forum would be about dealing with "celebrity" and how to help these folks remain just as anonymous as the rest of us. If these were photos of my mother online intubated I would be fuming mad, we all should be at this blatant intrusion into someone's privacy, public figure or not.

    We all know clearly from the Trooper vs EMT video that cameras are everywhere.
    I have seen no evidence the folks working the rigs that day took any photos and I hope we never learn who they were, for their sakes.
    Dawn Burrows said:

        Happy do you really think moving the body of a person of that stature is a really good idea? I would think that it would be more secure behind the gates of his home, inside and away from a bus load of tourists and paprazzi. Who as we have seen will go to any lengths to get a picture or clip. He could have been moved the ME's office on a gurney and covered. then all they would have gotten was pictures of the body bag and not the indignity of having CPR preformed for all the world to see. They weren't getting past those gates or those guards. The average ER is not very secure at all. No matter what they do to try and lock it down. The moving just allows for more picture taking. Hmm You have me thinking this will make a good blog post!

        the Happy Medic said:

            Let's all remember that if I posted a photo similar to this anywhere online I would be fired and sued. This is unprofessional by the photographer and the media who choose to show it. I think having a link to it in this forum is simply hitching the cart to the publicity show.

            I personally think moving a patient of this stature out of the home and into a more secure location, like the hospital, was a scene safety decision, and a good one.

            But links to something like this on JEMS connect I think brings the forum down a notch. Will it also be the cover photo for the next JEMS magazine?

            My 2 cents
            Happy Medic

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EMSismyLyfe Permalink Reply by EMSismyLyfe on June 26, 2009 at 7:16pm
    To somewhat stay on topic of JEMS purpose for posting this story with the link that cameras are everywhere at anytime and photos can be taken by civillians, media, paparrazzi, whomever... whenever.... I ask this question....

    With all the designs we take into consideration with ambulance building. With all the safety features, etc that are considered when designing/ordering/buying an ambulance.... can the side door window and the back door windows not be made of a one-way mirrored type glass? Not particularly a mirror on the outside, I can see the dangers of the sunlight hitting that just right and "blinding" other drivers on the road, but a type of tinted one way glass. I would think that would protect celebrities from media, paparrazzi or whomever is after a picture in an unfortunate time, such as evidenced in the link. And not only celebrities, but I work in a county next door to our own Skip Kirkwood that is riddled with gangs, violence, shootings and stabbings.... I would think it'd also protect the Medics inside of the ambulance from those looking in. I've been in a situation where the ambulance was surrounded by bystanders on the scene of a gang related shooting and the truck was actually being rocked... our sideboards were being rode on by anger raged people, our tailgate, anywhere they could get. Police couldn't get them all off.... we were being directed by PD to just keep in motion and don't stop. It was really an out of control scene, but that's the gangs here and how they can act. Retalliation towards EMS & Fire that transported and aided in saving a shooting victim has been threatened to us by them seeing who transported the victim. I would think a one-way window would be a means of protection and privacy both. Any ideas on it? Pros? Cons? I'm interested in others feedback on this idea.

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Joe Paczkowski Permalink Reply by Joe Paczkowski on June 26, 2009 at 9:17pm
    EMSismyLife:

    My current company has two of the three ambulances outfitted with graphics over the rear windows similar to what is seen here: http://www.customautotrim.com/window-graphics/ (http://www.customautotrim.com/window-graphics/)

    The graphic is white (matches the base color of the ambulance) with a blue star of life in the middle. Graphics like this would work perfectly in So Cal since the one downside I've had working with them is that the rear windows become blocked when ever wet. Other than that, I've had no problems looking out the windows either when in the back or when driving.

    Also, several manufacturers, notably Horton, have started equipping the side windows with liquid crystal technology that allows the windows to be made opaque with a throw of a switch.

    http://www.hortonambulance.com/featurePrivacy.php (http://www.hortonambulance.com/featurePrivacy.php)

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EMSismyLyfe Permalink Reply by EMSismyLyfe on June 26, 2009 at 9:31pm
    Joe, thanks for the links. I would think with these features out there..... especially the Opaque window... that would be something that areas with high celebrity concentration would use as an added form of security & privacy for both the pt & the crew. Although I don't feel the picture of Jackson that was published was of any fault to the crew but I would HATE to see them come under fire for the photos. (Even if it didn't happen with the Jackson case but the possibility of another celeb in the future)

    Joe P. said:

        EMSismyLife:

        My current company has two of the three ambulances outfitted with graphics over the rear windows similar to what is seen here: http://www.customautotrim.com/window-graphics/ (http://www.customautotrim.com/window-graphics/)

        The graphic is white (matches the base color of the ambulance) with a blue star of life in the middle. Graphics like this would work perfectly in So Cal since the one downside I've had working with them is that the rear windows become blocked when ever wet. Other than that, I've had no problems looking out the windows either when in the back or when driving.

        Also, several manufacturers, notably Horton, have started equipping the side windows with liquid crystal technology that allows the windows to be made opaque with a throw of a switch.

        http://www.hortonambulance.com/featurePrivacy.php (http://www.hortonambulance.com/featurePrivacy.php)

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The Cannulator Permalink Reply by The Cannulator on June 27, 2009 at 5:40am
    So what is the purpose of this thread then? I'm lost.

    As for the public domain, celebs do leave themselves open to ridicule and exposure. However, there are enough sites to debate the hypothetical, remember the star and so on Facebook.

    This is the time for EMS to show some leadership and perhaps just shut up about the whole case until some concrete details are known, and then a more realistic discussion can take place. if anything right now remember, you never know who is watching.

    And perhaps realise that every thread here can be read without being a member. Which is really pretty bloody stupid.

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John Dillon Permalink Reply by John Dillon on June 27, 2009 at 9:24am
    One thing we need to remember with photos, is if I respond to a call as an EMS professional, the patient deserves, and frankly the law requires confidentiality. In regards to the post about being fired you are correct, and you should be severely disciplined if you took a photo like this and posted while on duty. However, if I was Joe Public, I can take any photo I want as long as I do so legally. And essentially as long as I am not on private property, I can take a photo of anything I want, even something on private property as long as it is viewable from public property. There are some exception, but this photo, sadly is totally legal. And to publish it? Well we now see images all the time of victims of violence, wars, posted all over the place and on many media sites, and quite frankly with even more detail. It is the world we live in, and it is a wake up call to everyone, just ask the Oklahoma Trooper this, always assume someone is watching. I could argue that this image, even as some people are not happy with it, can serve to show that the EMS crew in this case was just not "Ambulance Drivers", transporting a body, they where delivering advanced level care. Photos create emotion, that is why they are used. We may not always like it, but in this case it was not only legal, it was tame compared to some the images I saw this past week many national news sites.

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Joe Paczkowski Permalink Reply by Joe Paczkowski on June 27, 2009 at 11:33am
    Legal and ethical are two different concepts.

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Mark Case Permalink Reply by Mark Case on June 27, 2009 at 12:47pm
    Please forgive me but, they do make an option on ambulances that the windows be operated by a switch becomes privacy glass make the inside non-visible to the public. it has to asked for when ordering new ambulance. don't see why lafd would not have this due to having celebs being transported by them..

    EMSismyLyfe said:

        To somewhat stay on topic of JEMS purpose for posting this story with the link that cameras are everywhere at anytime and photos can be taken by civillians, media, paparrazzi, whomever... whenever.... I ask this question....

        With all the designs we take into consideration with ambulance building. With all the safety features, etc that are considered when designing/ordering/buying an ambulance.... can the side door window and the back door windows not be made of a one-way mirrored type glass? Not particularly a mirror on the outside, I can see the dangers of the sunlight hitting that just right and "blinding" other drivers on the road, but a type of tinted one way glass. I would think that would protect celebrities from media, paparrazzi or whomever is after a picture in an unfortunate time, such as evidenced in the link. And not only celebrities, but I work in a county next door to our own Skip Kirkwood that is riddled with gangs, violence, shootings and stabbings.... I would think it'd also protect the Medics inside of the ambulance from those looking in. I've been in a situation where the ambulance was surrounded by bystanders on the scene of a gang related shooting and the truck was actually being rocked... our sideboards were being rode on by anger raged people, our tailgate, anywhere they could get. Police couldn't get them all off.... we were being directed by PD to just keep in motion and don't stop. It was really an out of control scene, but that's the gangs here and how they can act. Retalliation towards EMS & Fire that transported and aided in saving a shooting victim has been threatened to us by them seeing who transported the victim. I would think a one-way window would be a means of protection and privacy both. Any ideas on it? Pros? Cons? I'm interested in others feedback on this idea.

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EMSismyLyfe Permalink Reply by EMSismyLyfe on June 27, 2009 at 3:05pm
    Mark, I now know they do. Someone posted a link yesterday that showed who makes it and how it works. I'm not involved with the ordering/outfitting of our trucks so I was not aware if it was an option or not. I know our trucks don't have them but it would sure be a nice safety feature! I am like you tho, LAFD knows they transport celebs and they know of the paparazzi craze there and I would think that would be an option they'd want to have. I also think it would be a good idea in cities that the celebs are known to frequent IE: Miami, NYC, Atl, Chicago, Vegas... just to name a few. We just had Orlando Bloom and a few other celebs here filming a movie and it became a big hoorahhh for people to flock to where he was rumored to be at the time. They obviously go to the smaller cities & towns, too but I don't think it's as much of a security issue/worry about photogs, etc as in the bigger cities where celebs are known to frequent.

    I'd be interested to know just how much more the opaque windows are in comparisson to regular windows. It'll be a little bird I will be putting in our Directors ear for our next ambulance (which sadly won't be for a long while with the budget restraints.)

Reply by Mark Case on June 27, 2009 at 3:59pm
    the ambulance company next town over has them and they used them on a domestic case to hide the woman from her husband. they turned out all the lights inside them hit the switch for the windows and got her out of there and her husband never knew it. So please share this little bit of evidence to put it in for your next ambulance. yes it does work.

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Dave Andrus Permalink Reply by Dave Andrus on June 30, 2009 at 12:36pm
    "can the side door window and the back door windows not be made of a one-way mirrored type glass? Not particularly a mirror on the outside, I can see the dangers of the sunlight hitting that just right and "blinding" other drivers on the road, but a type of tinted one way glass."

    Great idea... even if only a "limo-tint" I think it would be an idea worth incorporating. I too have had situations in which angry people outside the truck were trying to look into the truck, and can immediately see the safety value of such an improvement, as well as discouraging the "morbidly curious". Additionally, what about designing an easy-to-incorporate retrofit for existing ambulances (for example, the window-films).

    I would love to see an upgrade like that become a standard feature on our ambulance/engine fleet.

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Michoel Bloom Permalink Reply by Michoel Bloom on July 6, 2009 at 9:45pm
    Horton, has the best privacy windows on the market for Ambulances, you push a button and the window instantly goes opaque. This should be a more common feature for ambulances. This isn't the first, and unfortunately, won't be the last time the media videos through a window. (remember britney Spears?)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: wishingstar on March 10, 2011, 04:49:15 PM
Quote from: "navibl"
Quote from: "wishingstar"
Thank you from the bottom of my heart for the messages about my mom.  Through this whole process I have revisited much of my personal pains in life.  It's one of the things that kept me from joining this forum at first.  However, when I saw how much you supported each other with things like this.....I knew I'd be ok here.  The subject of death is truly painful for most people...naturally.  I truly appreciate the sweet words and love.  If going to the dark places of my heart, helps this investigation...I'll go.  
Thank you again from the very bottom of my heart.
Wishingstar

Wishingstar....I can feel your pain my Dear...I lost my Mother last June...she never told us how sick she was, it was a total shock, but we would sit and watch videos of Michael and talk about things that I would read here.  It actually was comforting for me here after she was gone because she shared this adventure here with me.  I would have never thought that God would use Michael to comfort me in a sudden loss of my mother. God is so good and Loves us so much!  God Bless you Michael!!!

I have chills navibl.......thank you for sharing that.  It was so heart-warming, indeed.  Though, I am very sorry to hear of your loss, I am grateful to hear how you have dealt with things.  Sounds like your mother was an amazing person.....what a sweetheart.  Thank you so much, navibl.  You are a blessing!
Have a beautiful day!
LOVE
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: wishingstar on March 10, 2011, 05:08:19 PM
What about this photo from that Pancake Breakfast:
http://www.teamgoonphotos.com/Random-Ha ... uLs/Medium (http://www.teamgoonphotos.com/Random-Happenings/Breakfast-at-Fire-Station-71/12547601_GDjsM/1/900255943_rxuLs/Medium)

The picture is of the station office, I guess?  What gets me are the photos on the wall.  Can anyone zoom in on them.......sorry for just a link....... :oops:
Blessings!
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MJonmind on March 10, 2011, 05:15:57 PM
Wishingstar and Navibl, I'm so sorry for your loss. I lost my mother suddenly many years ago when I was 21, and some aspects of the hoax do bring me back.

Wishingstar and Genafelicia, you must both be into mathematics. I asked my math student son to explain and he went into a whole description, over my head. :lol:
About that pancake breakfast, I’ll bet MJ gave that fire station 71 a hefty donation, perhaps even paid for the event.

Thanks for the link, 2good2btrue. You put together some good things on that thread that I recommend others check out. "
Quote
This is the topic about all the same people, acting out the same roles...

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=9059&hilit=+all+the+actors+in+this+hoax (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=9059&hilit=+all+the+actors+in+this+hoax)
RunFaYaLife, very interesting discussion by emergency medical insiders. Just some things that caught my eye. They talk a lot about many people having cameras (yet only Ben's cameraman took a pic) and no EM person said it was wrong person. Somehow paps also took a pic of Britney Spears (helps us compare shots through tinted window).

Quote
"We're on our way. It's less than a mile away from Cedars," the operator said, referring to Cedars-Sinai Medical Center.
Paramedics, however, took Jackson to Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical Center, where he was later pronounced dead.
Wonder why?

Quote
And perhaps realise that every thread here can be read without being a member. Which is really pretty bloody stupid.
No privacy now-a-days! :lol: We sure manage to get our eyes everywhere, nothing hidden with MJDHI.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 10, 2011, 05:21:02 PM
Quote from: "MJonmind"
Wishingstar and Ginafelicia, you must both be into mathematics. I asked my math student son to explain and he went into a whole description, over my head. :lol:

Actually I remember not very much from high-school, when the comunists were torturing us with high mathematics !! Glad those days are gone :D I hated it, but I still remember the formula  of k-combinations of n :lol:

I never knew I'll use it 20 years later to determine Michael Jackson's chances of being  alive after he died :shock:
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MJonmind on March 10, 2011, 05:26:18 PM
:lol: Ya never know when past experiences will help you with this hoax. It's taking all we've got!
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MJhasSpoken on March 10, 2011, 05:38:21 PM
Quote from: "Im_convincedmjalive"
Quote from: "wishingstar"
Here is an article about a pancake Breakfast Breakfast they hosted :
http://www.bigwheelmagazine.com/around_ ... e-13-2010/ (http://www.bigwheelmagazine.com/around_town/pancake-breakfast-at-fire-station-71-of-the-los-angeles-fire-department-los-angeles-ca-june-13-2010/)
Anyone look familiar? Paramedics?

Blessings Always!

Thank you for the link wishingstar. :)
http://www.teamgoonphotos.com/Random-Ha ... F/Original (http://www.teamgoonphotos.com/Random-Happenings/Breakfast-at-Fire-Station-71/12547601_GDjsM/1/900256782_D33FF/Original)
(http://www.teamgoonphotos.com/Random-Happenings/Breakfast-at-Fire-Station-71/23P1040409/900256782_D33FF-O.jpg)
This picture shows 2 men/paramedics from Fire station 71. Do you think maybe the black guy is the same one in the picture below? We only see the back of his head. The white guy posing in the picture (above) doesn't seem like the guy next to Alberto on the right. 3rd guy/paramedic is still suspect to me! lol
(http://www.bittenandbound.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/ambulance-arrives-at-hospital-with-michael-jackson.jpg)
(http://www.buzzchow.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/michael-jackson-hospital-385x386.jpg)
(http://www.cayman27.com.ky/app/webroot/files/t1home_michael_jackson_hospital_x17.jpg)
I think I may have identified the security so far as being Mike La Perruque (the guy with the mustache facing us), Alberto Alvarez (the guy with his back to us next to Murray), and who is the guy holding up his coat? Help please.

Why is that guy (the guy who is holding up the coat next to the ambulance) holding the coat up to the ambulance when the patient was already wheeled out?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MJhasSpoken on March 10, 2011, 05:40:49 PM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Quote from: "PureLove"
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Quote from: "mdc"
Just wondering...
Do you think the cabinet from the pictures match the cabinet from the video? Wouldn't that white border show up in the pictures?

(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12209)

(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12208)


Good catch!  I'm glad somebody noticed this--it is one of the "secrets" that I have been planning on pointing out, if nobody found it.  But I'm always glad when someone else finds it first.  There is one more thing about this that I will include later, if nobody else gets it first.



TS, I was wondering what the other one more thing you were going to include. Did you write it to us already or someone else has found it or are you waiting for the ambulance research/discussion to end?

So far, I haven't seen anyone find the other thing on this.  I'll give it a few more days for someone else to find it.

 Can you at least give us help in the right direction...it's hard to know what were looking for when we have nothing to go on.  :)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 10, 2011, 05:55:35 PM
Quote from: "wishingstar"
paula-c said:  Endocrine System:

1.- The Thymus is not identified. [this report gets bizarre page by page, apparently the coroner was not able to find the thymus, so the dead body is missing his thymus. The thymus is a specialized organ of the immune system. In lupus patients the whole immune system becomes over active attacking the body’s tissues & organs. However in HIV AIDS patients the thymus will be damaged to the point that it cannot be identified in the body. Another cause for missing the thymus is a very rare birth defect called the Digeorge Syndrome, however people suffering from this syndrome have certain facial features that make them stand out, very much similar to Down Syndrome. We know Michael didn’t have Digeorge Syndrome, there’s no mention of the deceased body having HIV, so why is the thymus missing? I can’t find a medical explanation for it!!!!
It is worth mentioning that removal of Thymus is highly unconventional & dangerous, the only time that a surgeon might decide to remove a thymus is in infants with sever heart defects that require heart surgery, the thymus in these cases sometimes have to be removed in order for the surgeon to have an unobstructed access to the heart. however this is not the case in older children or adults. Another very rare case that requires removal of thymus, which again I insist is very rare & it's a tough choice for a surgeon to make, is if a patient is suffering from Myasthenia gravis. Myasthenia gravis is a neuro-muscular disease leading to severe fluctuation of muscles & weakness & fatiguability. Again not all the cases of Myasthenia gravis require removal of thymus. Removal of thymus bears sever neurological side effects & it is a contributing factor in death of HIV patients. So why is the body missing the Thymus?]



Unfortunately, I can tell you from personal experience, the removal of the Thymus is very dangerous....my mother passed from Myasthenia.  She was incredibly weak afterwards, people did not recognize her in the end...I'm done....gotta go cry.  
Love to all...............Wishingstar

Makes me think about "Bubbles" again, because the Thymus is often removed from monkeys and rats for medical experiments.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: PureLove on March 10, 2011, 06:15:09 PM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Quote from: "PureLove"
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Quote from: "mdc"
Just wondering...
Do you think the cabinet from the pictures match the cabinet from the video? Wouldn't that white border show up in the pictures?

(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12209)

(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=12208)


Good catch!  I'm glad somebody noticed this--it is one of the "secrets" that I have been planning on pointing out, if nobody found it.  But I'm always glad when someone else finds it first.  There is one more thing about this that I will include later, if nobody else gets it first.



TS, I was wondering what the other one more thing you were going to include. Did you write it to us already or someone else has found it or are you waiting for the ambulance research/discussion to end?

So far, I haven't seen anyone find the other thing on this.  I'll give it a few more days for someone else to find it.

Thank you TS. Blessings...
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: mjaliveomg on March 10, 2011, 08:23:29 PM
deleted
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: mjaliveomg on March 10, 2011, 08:25:58 PM
Quote from: "MJhasSpoken"
Quote from: "Im_convincedmjalive"
Quote from: "wishingstar"
Here is an article about a pancake Breakfast Breakfast they hosted :
http://www.bigwheelmagazine.com/around_ ... e-13-2010/ (http://www.bigwheelmagazine.com/around_town/pancake-breakfast-at-fire-station-71-of-the-los-angeles-fire-department-los-angeles-ca-june-13-2010/)
Anyone look familiar? Paramedics?

Blessings Always!

Thank you for the link wishingstar. :)
http://www.teamgoonphotos.com/Random-Ha ... F/Original (http://www.teamgoonphotos.com/Random-Happenings/Breakfast-at-Fire-Station-71/12547601_GDjsM/1/900256782_D33FF/Original)
(http://www.teamgoonphotos.com/Random-Happenings/Breakfast-at-Fire-Station-71/23P1040409/900256782_D33FF-O.jpg)
This picture shows 2 men/paramedics from Fire station 71. Do you think maybe the black guy is the same one in the picture below? We only see the back of his head. The white guy posing in the picture (above) doesn't seem like the guy next to Alberto on the right. 3rd guy/paramedic is still suspect to me! lol

thats what i said on my other replies...this 3rd paramedic looks like mj...
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: wishingstar on March 10, 2011, 10:43:10 PM
I am way stuck on this Pancake breakfast set of photos.....maybe I am just hungry, lol!  However, the whole series is very interesting....take a look at this close up pic in daylight of the ambulance.  I see white around the cases, I think:
http://www.teamgoonphotos.com/Random-Ha ... f/Original (http://www.teamgoonphotos.com/Random-Happenings/Breakfast-at-Fire-Station-71/12547601_GDjsM/1/900256507_nqExf/Original)

Scroll through the set.....what do you guys think?  There is also a photo of a guy in a fireman's jacket....Ben? In one shot, he is with a child, in another shot he is taking the picture with a huge camera (like the one on Ben's desk I posted about).

Blessings!
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Its her on March 11, 2011, 12:01:42 AM
Quote
TS_Comments wrote...The next level means that we are now going to shift the focus from the ambulance picture (whether it was real or fake, etc) to whether or not some or all of the paramedics are in on the hoax.


I believe ALL live June 25 paramedics were actors contracted for the hoax.

Quote
Did the actual paramedics pose for a staged ambulance shot before 6-25-09? Would the real paramedics publicly deny the ambulance photo, if it was not them in the picture (and they were not in on the hoax)?

No. No actual paramedics working for MJ, prior to June 25. No real paramedics on June 25. I think, now,  :o  it could have been an actual photo from a trade magazine, OR medical equipment catalog (which is why the EMTs are unidentifiable).

The "EMTs" in that photo probably are unaware to this day that the publication photo was used again and a photo of an "MJ masked model" or old photo of MJ was shopped in.

It would not be required to notify or gain a signed release from these guys, as their faces will still not be shown and they were not being asked to pose again for any hoax. So, no,  ;) they would not reveal the secret or the hoax as they were not privy to it.

(That answers your question, too, in color below, Gina :) .)

In fact, if THAT trade mag photo was a staged photo as well,  also using body models or actors posing as paramedics for the picture, the models probably haven't ever even looked back, read the magazine or seen the photo EVER, and would not be able to recognize it on CNN on that June 25th.

 


Quote
 Was the ambulance photo staged with the actual #71 LAFD ambulance, or another one that looks about the same inside?

 
If it was a standard ambulance interior in a picture in a medical catalog or trade mag, as I propose, now, it cannot be the ACTUAL #71 LAFD one. Someone previously (a medic or EMT by vocation, I believe, I'm sorry :oops: , I don't remember your name), on the Feb 26 thread stated that they are all pretty much alike.


Quote from: "GINAFELICIA"
In the 911 call they never said it was Michael Jackson but a gentleman of 50.
And he was admitted at UCLA under the name Soule Shaun.
The paramedics said they didn't recognize Michael Jackson, because there was an old frail man.

So one scenario would be this: another person died instead of Michael.
In this case nobody from the fire dep. or from the paramedics or from the hospital had to be in the hoax and everything that happened that day was for real, except the fact that the dying person was not Michael.

I would go for this

There is only one problem: Why the paramedics, if they are not in the hoax, didn't  reveal that the ambulance pic is fake?

So, to recap:

 :arrow: I feel that just to keep everyone honest and loyal, everyone in on this hoax is paid and contracted to silence, even friends. Key players involved in the live event on June 25 were paid actors, sworn to silence under penalty of prosecution.

 :arrow: I now feel that NO closeup photos were taken live, NO inside ambulance photos, either----only long shots and shots placing characters in site and on scene. Photographers just went through the motions for drama's sake. ;) And so that the world would "buy" the money shot ("yeah, we SAW the guy snap it, right through the side window, as the ambulance pulled away---wow!").

 :arrow: I feel that the three 911 call versions I heard, were staged as well. AND done on "the other day". All faked. MJ is NOT going to jail, EVER, therefore he's NO WAY  messing with the real 911 agency/ network at all. Pretty certain it is a felony. He is also NOT going to risk a mis-speak or slip up blowing the entire thing, LIVE, and there really is NO reason to cram yet another live production into June 25's schedule!! :lol:

A couple of thoughts:

Emergency attendants are very take charge confident people. I didn't hear such a personality on those recordings. :?  I even heard one guy who was "thrown" by the fact there was an M.D.on scene.

The other thing, I believe someone MUST have mentioned: if the call is disconnected, 911 will re-establish contact and remain on the line until ambulance has arrived. They NEVER hang up on an emergency, and they don't let YOU let go of them either!! 8-)  

 :arrow: All of this means that, as actors, everything they said that day is scripted, including all the stuff about "MJ's" appearing to not look like his expected self, looking like an 80 yr old man...We can't put stock in anything the MJ Players said. Every word came out of Michael Jackson's Fiendish Adventure kit. 8-) :!:  :lol:

When MJ conceptualized  this Thriller, he hinted it would be scary. He said he would give them a monster, if that's what everyone wanted to see. He is a Genius with emotional pushbuttons. I don't know about eveyone else, but the incongruous reports gave me heart stopping hope, that it wasn't MJ after all.Then they scared me to death, because I knew, one CAN go from 50 to 80, if one is tormented relentlessly, as MJ was...  :cry:

Anyway, these are my latest theories
 :)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 11, 2011, 12:23:31 AM
I don't know if I am able to rationalize right now but we have big problemes with this issue of the paramedics.

I'm just stating here my dilema of the moment:

If the paramedics were actors and the ambulance a fake on June 25th, why the real 71 ambulance crue wouldn't say a thing that they weren't there that day?

If the paramedics were real and the ambulance was the real 71 on June 25th, why wouldn't they say the ambulance picture if fake, because we can clearly see MJ's face in it and they said they didn't recognize Michael?

So far none of the theories I can think about doesn't stand.

This thing about the paramedics not being able to recognize MJ always comes in the middle, contradicting the ambulance picture.

Let's say everything was for real and Michael died that day and he was in the ambulance. Still this doesn't solve the contradiction between the ambulance picture and the paramedics not recognizing MJ.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 11, 2011, 12:25:45 AM
the real 71 ambulance had to be there that day, otherwise they would deny the whole thing.
And I don't think the official 71 paramedics weren't aware of what was happening as it was a worldwide breaking news.
They had to be there.
I think one of the four 911 calls has to be real

And I posted this at 6:25 and this is a freaking coincidence because coincidences DO happen
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: RK on March 11, 2011, 12:45:46 AM
@Its her...great post...I never thought about the shots being from a trade mag before. Thankyou for opening me to other possibilities. Standing ovation for you girl. :P
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 11, 2011, 12:50:46 AM
Quote from: "Its her"
[I believe ALL live June 25 paramedics were actors contracted for the hoax.


OK, but why the real ones from LAFD ambulance 71 didn't say nothing about not being there that day?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Grace on March 11, 2011, 01:14:58 AM
http://www.flickr.com/photos/44687287@N02/5516425389/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/44687287@N02/5516425435/
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Its her on March 11, 2011, 01:15:42 AM
Quote from: "RK"
@Its her...great post...I never thought about the shots being from a trade mag before. Thankyou for opening me to other possibilities. Standing ovation for you girl. :P
Why, thank you!   :oops:  

I would even take a bow, except I'm humbly holding off a bit, in case there is also the pelting with vegetables. :?


 :o  :lol:  :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 11, 2011, 01:37:57 AM
Grace would you please explain those? How you found them if they protected them of the search engines?

Please :(
If they are true means the 71 ambulance was there for real, with real paramedics and all.
And we can step into the next level into finding if there was MJ on the strecher or a double or another person..
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: PureLove on March 11, 2011, 01:49:28 AM
Quote from: "Grace"
http://www.flickr.com/photos/44687287@N02/5516425389/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/44687287@N02/5516425435/

It fits perfectly with my theory.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 11, 2011, 02:04:13 AM
Quote from: "PureLove"
Quote from: "Grace"
http://www.flickr.com/photos/44687287@N02/5516425389/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/44687287@N02/5516425435/

It fits perfectly with my theory.

Would you please detail your theory?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Its her on March 11, 2011, 02:06:18 AM
Quote from: "GINAFELICIA"
Quote from: "Its her"
[I believe ALL live June 25 paramedics were actors contracted for the hoax.


OK, but why the real ones from LAFD ambulance 71 didn't say nothing about not being there that day?
THAT, my dear, is going to require more brainpower, than I planned to use this late at night. But...for YOU:

Perhaps they couldn't and still cannot speak, as MJ is cleverly  :geek: keeping them up to their lips in pancakes (a substitute word for "lettuce", or, "greenbacks", or moolah, money)? :lol:

Seriously, EVERY EMT doesn't work EVERY day, and even though there probably is some kind of a log, most wouldn't THINK to check and see if staff at THEIR lowly #71, on their day off,  let the great Michael Jackson DIE in their hands.

Perhaps MJ had made a deal with the main man over there and THAT guy zipped all of staff's lips about who did what, to anyone, especially press. They don't have to ALL be in on it, or to know JACK about it, to follow orders from the boss (AND HIPPA), and "dummy up, dudes".

Either that, or, Michael Godfather Jackson made everyone an offer they couldn't refuse.... 8-)

OR, (and this is so bizarre, I surprised myself! ) :o  

What if, true to my "ALL-ACTORS" premise, all are ACTING according to MJ's script that day, but TWO of the act-ors hired are secretly, genuine paramedics in their real life---just btw??????????

They are NOT in any official capacity---unless as closet technical advisors known only to MJ, himself---but only as "extras" in the ambulance scene that day. Since these guys are government employees, I don't think anyone can BUY them for a day in their official capacity...But it would be okay for them to be------------------------------------

AREYOU READY FOR THIS :?:







Moon :roll: lighting,

as actors in a paramedic scene, playing non-speaking (because the audio was already done "the other day" ;)  ;) )parts of EMTs.

And, not only that, but, maybe there is a law about who is even authorized/licensed to drive a real ambulance. If two EMTs gotta be on board to make it legal, well, MJ just better pay a couple for their time, except as actors, NOT on the clock as EMTs!

Besides, there is no point in "lyin' "about it (saying they were NOT there)---as everyone will say they ARE---out of shame  and guilt----because we all saw #71 on the world news!  :P  :P  :P  :roll: EH?  :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 11, 2011, 02:33:36 AM
ItsHer I don't even know what to say.
Your theory doesn't sound too crazy ?

You think Michael could have bought their silence on such a big thing like his faked death?

No......all these are toooooooo unrealistic.

But if we go back to the old theories of the CIA involvement, than I think everyhting falls in place.
They have the power to set up such an illusion, given the required involvement of so many public services - LAFD, LAPD, UCLA, the coroner, the court of laws and what did I miss?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: 2good2btrue on March 11, 2011, 02:34:12 AM
Two different days...two different ambulances....
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: PureLove on March 11, 2011, 02:57:12 AM
Quote from: "GINAFELICIA"

Would you please detail your theory?

Quote from: "PureLove"

I haven't read all 3 pages yet, so this theory could have been written before. Here is my theory regarding to the ambulance issue. An ambulance that looks like the real ambulance came to a studio or Michael's house before 6-25-09. There were actors to play paramedics. And the pictures were taken on that day. And the ambulance went to the hospital with Michael inside on that day as well where we had these photos of him getting into the hospital sitting on the stretcher.

(http://www.cayman27.com.ky/app/webroot/files/t1home_michael_jackson_hospital_x17.jpg)

And on 6-25-2009 a real ambulance came to MJ's house with real paramedics and they found an old Asian looking man, probably who died hours ago and tried to survive him. And that is the reason why the paramedics said the patient didn't look like Michael. I still believe a dead body was used on 6-25 because of the paramedics' comments about the patient and how MJ's room was kept warm in the middle of summer. And the paramedics who are in court are also the real paramedics who went MJ's house on 6-25. I do not know if they said anything related how the patient looked like on that day in their testimony but probably they thought that MJ was so sick and fragile and that was the reason why he looked like an old guy. Michael can be the most famous person in this world but he wasn't in front of the cameras for some time and not everyone is his fans to follow and catch up what he looks like recently.

Michael had to use a fake ambulance to make fake photos because you could never know if someone (who has an agreement like Ben or some random people who were there) can take a nice shot of inside of the ambulance when the ambulance is moving. The scene needed to look real on 6-25 and there had to be witnesses that an ambulance was there on that day. And the ambulance was slow, without the sirens but still it couldn't stop and wait there for people to get nice shots through tinted windows.

So I believe that is the reason why Michael staged an ambulance scene before the real one on 6-25. And he used photoshop and changed his face, added some extra clues for us to understand the ambo pic is fake. BUT it couldn't be too fake to make everyone understand that it is fake. Until the statement came from Brian Oxman due to fake ambulance picture, people(non-believers) were still considering it as a real picture.

Probably Ben was called on the staged ambo day and on the real ambo day, to take the pictures on the staged ambo day and to be there on 6-25 to talk and make a statement like he was the one who took the ambo pictures. Do we even see this guy around the ambulance or his friend what ever he looks like on 6-25? And why that guy who took the picture doesn't talk but Ben does? To make a "goof" like "... on that day and the other d... umm"?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Its her on March 11, 2011, 02:58:24 AM
Quote from: "GINAFELICIA"
ItsHer I don't even know what to say.
Your theory doesn't sound too crazy ?

You think Michael could have bought their silence on such a big thing like his faked death?

No......all these are toooooooo unrealistic.

But if we go back to the old theories of the CIA involvement, than I think everyhting falls in place.
They have the power to set up such an illusion, given the required involvement of so many public services - LAFD, LAPD, UCLA, the coroner, the court of laws and what did I miss?
I think every single person MJ asked to keep quiet, WOULD, just to be part of history and have a supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
story to tell their grandkids :!:  :!: But I think he would pay them (AFTERwards ;) ) and bind them to an oath, to keep them honest and true to their promise, because he knows people are weak  :oops: blabbermouths!!!!!!!!!!!! :roll:

Don't worry, MJ is very much alive and well. :)  Who do you think that Madman is, behind the wheel, steering this HoaxShip?

It can be none other.

 :idea: Everyone blow kisses to the PuppetMaster. 8-)

Over and out. Bed time for Bonzo.....
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Grace on March 11, 2011, 03:09:46 AM
Quote from: "GINAFELICIA"
If they are true means the 71 ambulance was there for real, with real paramedics and all.
And we can step into the next level into finding if there was MJ on the strecher or a double or another person..

"Real paramedics" does not exclude acting as the intensive participation of LAFD in movies has shown.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 11, 2011, 03:35:08 AM
Quote from: "Grace"
Quote from: "GINAFELICIA"
If they are true means the 71 ambulance was there for real, with real paramedics and all.
And we can step into the next level into finding if there was MJ on the strecher or a double or another person..

"Real paramedics" does not exclude acting as the intensive participation of LAFD in movies has shown.

So you say that the real paramedics acted that day.
But how Michael convinced them to do it?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 11, 2011, 03:37:05 AM
ItsHer you are one of a kind  :lol: !!

Hope the Puppet Master receives the kisses from his main deck or from behind the grave
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 11, 2011, 03:38:19 AM
PureLove I need some time to read your theory.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Grace on March 11, 2011, 03:43:37 AM
Quote from: "GINAFELICIA"
Quote from: "Grace"
Quote from: "GINAFELICIA"
If they are true means the 71 ambulance was there for real, with real paramedics and all.
And we can step into the next level into finding if there was MJ on the strecher or a double or another person..

"Real paramedics" does not exclude acting as the intensive participation of LAFD in movies has shown.

So you say that the real paramedics acted that day.

That's not what I said.
You are a fast one.  ;)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 11, 2011, 03:52:13 AM
OK, you're just saying real paramedics does not exclude acting.
So you're saying nothing with this.
Ahhhhh.....I just wanna scream, too bad I don't know how to scream. Only on inside.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: paula-c on March 11, 2011, 09:50:10 AM
Quote
TS_comments » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:12 pm

PureLove wrote:
TS_comments wrote:
mdc wrote:
Just wondering...
Do you think the cabinet from the pictures match the cabinet from the video? Wouldn't that white border show up in the pictures?







Good catch! I'm glad somebody noticed this--it is one of the "secrets" that I have been planning on pointing out, if nobody found it. But I'm always glad when someone else finds it first. There is one more thing about this that I will include later, if nobody else gets it first.




TS, I was wondering what the other one more thing you were going to include. Did you write it to us already or someone else has found it or are you waiting for the ambulance research/discussion to end?

So far, I haven't seen anyone find the other thing on this. I'll give it a few more days for someone else to find it.


This thread is to keep talking of the ambulance or the action of the paramedicos :?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MissG on March 11, 2011, 09:58:11 AM
Quote from: "Grace"
http://www.flickr.com/photos/44687287@N02/5516425389/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/44687287@N02/5516425435/

 :shock:  :shock:  holly cow! is that yours?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Elsa on March 11, 2011, 10:00:09 AM
OK - I'm going to try again. The evidence that there were two different ambulances can be found by comparing the photo of the 'ambulance leaving the house' with the 'proof of ambulance arriving at UCLA' pictures.
[attachment=0:16vrahiv]4_proof_pic[1].jpg[/attachment:16vrahiv]

1 There is no reflector near the bottom rear corner of the ambulance.
2 The word 'Fire' is partly on the door of the top rear compartment of the ambulance.

You can compare this ambulance with the ambulance at UCLA pictures (all over this thread) and see the differences. There is a good comparison of these ambulances at this site - just scroll down until you see the picture of the ambulance leaving the house.  http://arvenru.wordpress.com/2010/09/01/551/ (http://arvenru.wordpress.com/2010/09/01/551/)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MissG on March 11, 2011, 10:15:02 AM
Quote from: "Elsa"
OK - I'm going to try again. The evidence that there were two different ambulances can be found by comparing the photo of the 'ambulance leaving the house' with the 'proof of ambulance arriving at UCLA' pictures.
[attachment=0:hji82uez]4_proof_pic[1].jpg[/attachment:hji82uez]

1 There is no reflector near the bottom rear corner of the ambulance.
2 The word 'Fire' is partly on the door of the top rear compartment of the ambulance.

You can compare this ambulance with the ambulance at UCLA pictures (all over this thread) and see the differences. There is a good comparison of these ambulances at this site - just scroll down until you see the picture of the ambulance leaving the house.  http://arvenru.wordpress.com/2010/09/01/551/ (http://arvenru.wordpress.com/2010/09/01/551/)

What if its the same ambo but altered/ shopped?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 11, 2011, 10:17:24 AM
I'm sorry but the reflector is there both on the ambulance at Michael's residence and on the ambulance that arrived at UCLA. Or I'm not seeing it ....where you guys see there is no reflector?
I don't think there were 2 ambulances - one that left the house and another one arrived at UCLA.

There was one and there was the real one, otherwise LAFD would say something about it, don't you think so?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: StrangerInCalifornia on March 11, 2011, 10:43:11 AM
Quote from: "Elsa"
OK - I'm going to try again. The evidence that there were two different ambulances can be found by comparing the photo of the 'ambulance leaving the house' with the 'proof of ambulance arriving at UCLA' pictures.
[attachment=0:1qees29m]4_proof_pic[1].jpg[/attachment:1qees29m]

1 There is no reflector near the bottom rear corner of the ambulance.
2 The word 'Fire' is partly on the door of the top rear compartment of the ambulance.

You can compare this ambulance with the ambulance at UCLA pictures (all over this thread) and see the differences. There is a good comparison of these ambulances at this site - just scroll down until you see the picture of the ambulance leaving the house.  http://arvenru.wordpress.com/2010/09/01/551/ (http://arvenru.wordpress.com/2010/09/01/551/)
I see what u are talking about and it makes me think that maybe this picture was photoshopped because it does look like the word "fire" is partly on the back door, but I looked on the video just to make sure. On the video, the word "fire" is NOT on the back door. OR the picture of them taking the picture could've been shot using a different ambulance....i dont know...I'm a little confused with this and need some time to think it through lol.

Peace and LOVE
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MsTrinity333 on March 11, 2011, 11:01:06 AM
Quote from: "GINAFELICIA"
ItsHer I don't even know what to say.
Your theory doesn't sound too crazy ?

You think Michael could have bought their silence on such a big thing like his faked death?

No......all these are toooooooo unrealistic.

But if we go back to the old theories of the CIA involvement, than I think everyhting falls in place.
They have the power to set up such an illusion, given the required involvement of so many public services - LAFD, LAPD, UCLA, the coroner, the court of laws and what did I miss?

Exactly my thoughts Gina.  I come back to this also. Witness Protection. Nothing else reconciles the conflicting reports with the picture. If you want a real-life cover story get the Govt. involved and bypass all the red tape.  This would be another Elvis parallel; working under cover. One of many layers in this whole thing, and a serious one at that. I have a friend on YouTube who was investigating the money trail while a comrade of her's was doing the medical & autopsy.  She stopped her investigation last year because she found enough to KNOW MJ was alive and didn't want to put his safety in danger.


Here's my post from the other day:
"that day and the other d---- and uhhh, and uhhh ----” :roll: Pretty much says it all.
:lol: ET shot = Staged picture. Never liked it. Yes it's possible to get a shot like that with a flash through tinted windows; difficult, but possible with correct angle. As for the leaves & all the photo-shop & layering...over my head, I'm old school. Digital's not my thing; Give me a Cannon AE-1 or 2 1/4 any day. (sorry Nikon fans) Gone are the days of Zone System, raw talent & creativity. Now anyone can be a photographer & "make" a shot look good...it's a whole other world out there.

Video = Live action day. :lol: Let the games/Illusion begin! It's a Circus out there. :lol:

So the paramedics in the shot are actors for the set up...but the ones that answered the 911 call?
I don't think so, but there are four versions of the 911 call out there so I'm undecided on the live action day. I'm still thinking there really was a body/hospice patient involved because of all the other conflicts...hot room, didn't recognize him?, R I G H T, autopsy...


So are we even close to anything here TS? :?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: ignisaeternus on March 11, 2011, 11:28:34 AM
I agree with most of It'sHer's theorie, re actor paramedics, staged 911 calls etc. With the addition of low enforcement involvement on some level. It is really the only thing explaining why the real ambulance 71 crew has not spoken up. Also, it ties in to the previously addressed code 71- meaning approved absence. If nothing was random, than the choice of # of ambulance was not, either.
Also, if there was no real 911 call, and there is no law enforcement involvement, I think actual authorites would have come forward.  You can't pay off everyone.  And- there are bigger lures than short-term gain. Meaning, notoriety for exposing the hoax.

To me, some degree of witness protection, similar program, or law enforcement involvement (remember, the chief of la police resigned shortly after June 09- at least I think that's who it was, or other high up police official) is the ONE thing that ties together the non-matching photos, the different version 911 calls, the real paramedics vs actors issue, and impunity.  I always believed there was a threat to Michael's life- as did he according to several people.  Maybe, he finally got the attention he deserved and things tied into his long-term plans.
It also helps explain changes in BAM timeline as well as trail date changes- if things are not purely up to Michael.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: AllInGoodTime on March 11, 2011, 11:49:34 AM
The only issue I have ever questioned about the hoax is not videos, pics, staging or buyouts but the ACTUAL Trial.  Most of the "staging" could have been "bought" but the trial of Murray I have always felt to be out of MJ's control.  The trial is the ONLY thing that has ever made think MJ may actually be dead.  I do not feel he could "buy" the judicial system.  So "if" MJ is not alive the trial goes.  And because he IS alive, in my opinion he would have to BAM before it actually starts?   I am only a nurse and not a lawyer but I would think there is some kind of "criminal" issue will a false trial?  Just a thought.  :?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MissG on March 11, 2011, 11:53:22 AM
The trial can be real or can be a movie-documentary.
TMZ is not having much news lately so I feel a bit clueless about the upcoming trial.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: ignisaeternus on March 11, 2011, 11:53:41 AM
Quote from: "AllInGoodTime"
The only issue I have ever questioned about the hoax is not videos, pics, staging or buyouts but the ACTUAL Trial.  Most of the "staging" could have been "bought" but the trial of Murray I have always felt to be out of MJ's control.  The trial is the ONLY thing that has ever made think MJ may actually be dead.  I do not feel he could "buy" the judicial system.  So "if" MJ is not alive the trial goes.  And because he IS alive, in my opinion he would have to BAM before it actually starts?   I am only a nurse and not a lawyer but I would think there is some kind of "criminal" issue will a false trial?  Just a thought.  :?
Correct: he could NOT buy the justice system.  But, if it's a sting operation as some of us discussed above, it again makes sense.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: AllInGoodTime on March 11, 2011, 12:00:47 PM
Also maybe witness protection , etc, etc are only other reasons/way I see a "real" trial happening.  MJ could have paid Murray to take the "fall".  Thus, extending the "time" til BAM.  I take a few million to sit in jail!  LOL  Also, Murray could use "plausible deniablity" as his excuse to clear himself.  A "movie" trial seems like a stretch to me.  dunno?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: AllInGoodTime on March 11, 2011, 12:06:42 PM
Thought-(again)lol
MJ comes back
Murray says " I didnt know about hoax"
MJ states "life was in danger, had to do hoax"
Law enforcement confirms it participated
All "charges" dropped
We try to "save the planet"

Ain't detective work fun?  lol
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MissG on March 11, 2011, 12:10:18 PM
Quote from: "AllInGoodTime"
Thought-(again)lol
MJ comes back
Murray says " I didnt know about hoax"
MJ states "life was in danger, had to do hoax"
Law enforcement confirms it participated
All "charges" dropped
We try to "save the planet"

Ain't detective work fun?  lol
My view on this:

MJ comes back
Murray says -" I knew who wanted to harm Michael and adviced him and help him to "die""
MJ states "life was in danger, had to do hoax helped by Murray and other professionals"
Law enforcement confirms it participated
All "charges" dropped and all the bad guys and conspirators end up behind bars
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: AllInGoodTime on March 11, 2011, 12:12:10 PM
haha sorry for spamming but something else sticks out in my mind.

TS started this little investigationg with "As we near the end: let’s go back to the beginning"

Makes me think that trial/conviction of Murray doesn't happen because if Murray does do jail time(paid or not) the "end" really isn't near.

and I'm done now, sorry again.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: AllInGoodTime on March 11, 2011, 12:12:59 PM
I like that to Gema!
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MissG on March 11, 2011, 12:16:51 PM
To me, Murray going to jail would mean no MJ come back.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Its her on March 11, 2011, 12:26:11 PM
Quote from: GINAFELICIA
Quote from: Grace
Quote from: GINAFELICIA
If they are true means the 71 ambulance was there for real, with real paramedics and all.
And we can step into the next level into finding if there was MJ on the strecher or a double or another person..

"Real paramedics" does not exclude acting as the intensive participation of LAFD in movies has shown.

So you say that the real paramedics acted that day.
But how Michael convinced them to do it?

Oh, Gina, MAGIC dust, of course. <!-- s;) --> ;) <!-- s;) -->

MJ stopped the world June 25 2009. Certainly, playing Pied Piper, gathering players for his Hoax would be a piece of cake. He got the bait. <!-- s:P --> :P <!-- s:P -->  <!-- s:lol: --> :lol: <!-- s:lol: -->
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: AllInGoodTime on March 11, 2011, 12:30:33 PM
Quote from: "Gema"
To me, Murray going to jail would mean no MJ come back.

BUT>>>it does tie into him"helping" if more "time" is needed.  Not like he would go to a max facility.  But "if" we "only have 4 more years", the clock is running out.  So no jail time/trial is our best hope of a BAM.  I would lose hope if he does do time.  To me it makes no sense.  I do see trial "starting" to bring MJ back into the public eye,  thus attention to him becomes a "topic" and more interest in all the "happenings" of that day are revisted.  MJ becomes more of a "news worthy" issue and pulic interest is sparked.   And BAM!  haha  I have also always thought that he would BAM on a big scale.  Believing it would/will be in the summertime, there were only a few venues I could see him doing it with a large "TV" audience.  Previously I thought of the summer music awards show, being those are the only "live" venues.  But his "trial"  is about the biggest "live" audience he could get/want.  And the world will be watching.  

I feel like an Almond JoyMounds candy bar---"sometimes you feel like nut, sometimes you don't"!!!
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Grace on March 11, 2011, 01:13:01 PM
Quote from: "ignisaeternus"
Quote from: "AllInGoodTime"
The only issue I have ever questioned about the hoax is not videos, pics, staging or buyouts but the ACTUAL Trial.  Most of the "staging" could have been "bought" but the trial of Murray I have always felt to be out of MJ's control.  The trial is the ONLY thing that has ever made think MJ may actually be dead.  I do not feel he could "buy" the judicial system.  So "if" MJ is not alive the trial goes.  And because he IS alive, in my opinion he would have to BAM before it actually starts?   I am only a nurse and not a lawyer but I would think there is some kind of "criminal" issue will a false trial?  Just a thought.  :?
Correct: he could NOT buy the justice system.  But, if it's a sting operation as some of us discussed above, it again makes sense.

I wonder what makes you think one could not buy the judicial system.
Whenever I follow a trial in the U.S., I am astounded how much bazaar one can witness.
And this is certainly not limited to the U.S.
The saying "in court and on the high seas one's life is in God's hand" has some meaning.
And some are getting their heads out of water.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: AllInGoodTime on March 11, 2011, 01:30:57 PM
Quote from: "Grace"
Quote from: "ignisaeternus"
Quote from: "AllInGoodTime"
The only issue I have ever questioned about the hoax is not videos, pics, staging or buyouts but the ACTUAL Trial.  Most of the "staging" could have been "bought" but the trial of Murray I have always felt to be out of MJ's control.  The trial is the ONLY thing that has ever made think MJ may actually be dead.  I do not feel he could "buy" the judicial system.  So "if" MJ is not alive the trial goes.  And because he IS alive, in my opinion he would have to BAM before it actually starts?   I am only a nurse and not a lawyer but I would think there is some kind of "criminal" issue will a false trial?  Just a thought.  :?
Correct: he could NOT buy the justice system.  But, if it's a sting operation as some of us discussed above, it again makes sense.

I wonder what makes you think one could not buy the judicial system.
Whenever I follow a trial in the U.S., I am astounded how much bazaar one can witness.
And this is certainly not limited to the U.S.
The saying "in court and on the high seas one's life is in God's hand" has some meaning.
And some are getting their heads out of water.


Please take no offense, in the spirt of a fun debate-  Besides the OJ Simpson trial, what trials have you seen be bought?   And OJ only bought the best lawyers.  So in theory one must "buy" a judge, jury, defense, prosecution, all of the D and P staff, Police, fire, medical, witnesses, coroner and their office, ucla staff, helicopter pilot and crew and a german news crew.  I'm missing a few for sure.  Point being no matter how much money you got you couldnt pay them all and in no way keep them all quiet.  And that would rule out witness protection theory because this most likely would never go to trial.  A technicality would of been found and case thrown out.  imo
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: AllInGoodTime on March 11, 2011, 01:36:34 PM
and as TS said, I am only in a way point and counter pointing a Non-believers main argument.  The trial.  To them Trial=Dead.  I hear it everyday.  Trust me, I have shown pics, vids, slips to many a person...but I remain the "crazy" one.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MJonmind on March 11, 2011, 01:44:21 PM
I honestly think MJ has some trick up his sleeve, a trump card, a wild card giving him sweeping rights/abilities/immunity, that no one has knowledge of. You know how a good movie you think the main star is sure to meet their doom and out of nowhere comes this solution/savior/twist that changes everything.
Quote
Its Her
Oh, Gina, MAGIC dust, of course.

MJ stopped the world June 25 2009. Certainly, playing Pied Piper, gathering players for his Hoax would be a piece of cake. He got the bait.

I don't think he can be in the witness protection because whoever wants to get at him, would go after his most precious thing--his children, but they have been open to the public and visible, not seeming to be afraid at all.

I think we should not even be wondering about when BAM will take place, and I think we should focus on what MJ puts out for us, and leave BAM for a whenever surprise. Not try to figure it out period.JMO
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: AllInGoodTime on March 11, 2011, 01:59:09 PM
Ok, I apologize for getting away from the main purpose of this thread.  It is interesting to see and find the things we missed as to either strengthen or weaken our beliefs.  So I have started a thread pertaining to theroies and thoughts about the trial and what it means.  For me it is the key.  The new things we find are fun and make you consider the complexity of the hoax.  But, it is also "old news" to me.  I am not trying to perdict BAMsday, only implying how the trial may actually influence when or if it ever happens.  This is the link viewtopic.php?f=73&t=18211 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=18211)  .  Again, I apologize for veering off-topic.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 11, 2011, 02:42:43 PM
Quote from: "MsTrinity333"
Exactly my thoughts Gina.  I come back to this also. Witness Protection. Nothing else reconciles the conflicting reports with the picture.

I am glad you agree.
I was thinking if the real death of Michael would reconcile the picture with paramedics statements that they didn't recognize Michael and the answer is no. They would still have a reason to say the photo was fake, except the case they didn't pay attention to that pic.

Anyway, the paramedics have to be in, otherwise they would speak about the pic being fake.

The real 71 ambulance had to be there, otherwise officials from LAFD would publicly deny their presence there.

If we have a hoax LAFD has to be in. But then there is UCLA, they also have to be in, and the more I think about it I come to the same conclusion that all the public services have to be in.
Or LAPD was acting the investigation?The coroner acted like he performed an autopsy?

Or maybe the level of involvement stopped at UCLA ? Maybe only LAFD and UCLA were needed in, to provide the dead body of another person, and then LAPD and the coroner just did their jobs, investigating and performing the autopsy, without being aware of a hoax.

IDK, but I don't think we can give an answer about the paramedics being in the hoax or not without thinking about what happened to UCLA that day.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: VeryLittleSusie on March 11, 2011, 05:05:26 PM
Quote from: "2good2btrue"
Two different days...two different ambulances....
To me it's the same but the photo was done with and without flash. They have this reflective feature that MAKES THEM GLOW in the flash, thus appear bigger, wider whatever!
Please, do not jump on the bandwagon of two ambulances because these photos were done in a sequence - picture by picture. With and without flash.


Seee? They're glowing!
(http://www.instructables.com/image/FTH7RITG23UU0VV/Safe-SneaksGlowReflective-shoes.jpg)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: paula-c on March 11, 2011, 07:38:43 PM
(http://emtbravowest.com/uploads/monthly_11_2009/post-4784-125882324738.jpg)

and accidentally to these actors.... I'm sorry it paramedical does not see the face them, I believe that there are paramedical that is real, not those that to be in the photo
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MsTrinity333 on March 11, 2011, 08:50:18 PM
Quote from: "GINAFELICIA"
Quote from: "MsTrinity333"
Exactly my thoughts Gina.  I come back to this also. Witness Protection. Nothing else reconciles the conflicting reports with the picture.

I am glad you agree.
I was thinking if the real death of Michael would reconcile the picture with paramedics statements that they didn't recognize Michael and the answer is no. They would still have a reason to say the photo was fake, except the case they didn't pay attention to that pic.

...Not if it was all done under Witness protection.   :?:
The real Paramedics belonging to 71 (whether "in" on live action day or not) wouldn't be allowed to speak about the events of that day.  And if the live action Paramedics there that day were actually Govt agents they certainly wouldn't speak of it, nor would they say all those weird comments about not recognizing him either.  ...So that means real Paramedics sworn to silence of the events that day -or- actors playing the part making a bunch of weird statements...?  

I'm back to the possibility of Witness Protection...
:|
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MsTrinity333 on March 11, 2011, 08:52:12 PM
Quote from: "VeryLittleSusie"
Quote from: "2good2btrue"
Two different days...two different ambulances....
To me it's the same but the photo was done with and without flash. They have this reflective feature that MAKES THEM GLOW in the flash, thus appear bigger, wider whatever!
Please, do not jump on the bandwagon of two ambulances because these photos were done in a sequence - picture by picture. With and without flash.


Seee? They're glowing!
(http://www.instructables.com/image/FTH7RITG23UU0VV/Safe-SneaksGlowReflective-shoes.jpg)

Yep.  I agree.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: PureLove on March 12, 2011, 01:17:21 AM
I wonder if TS is going to make any comments about the posts we have made. I hope he does.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MJonmind on March 12, 2011, 01:55:02 AM
Do you remember the link that Im_convincedmjalive gave about Steven M. Hoefflin making a public statement against what he called corrupt LAPD and he has incriminating evidence against Dr. Arnie Klein in connection to Michael Jackson. He said he contacted Colin Powel about this. He said it would put a lot of people in prison. He would expose people that colluded with them such as Diane Dimond. Not sure what to make of this, but it could be connected, but whether it is really what is happening in the hoax, IDK.

http://site2.mjeol.com/attachments/2814 ... tter12.pdf (http://site2.mjeol.com/attachments/2814_HoefflingLetter12.pdf)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: 2good2btrue on March 12, 2011, 07:23:46 AM
Someone already beat me to it, but I also had been working on the ambulance pictures and did some comparisons myself...

Maybe the coroner van video, and the making of it, was released for a reason. To prove that a fake ambulance could have been made for that day...

I believe there were two ambulances, one real and one made up with stickers, etc...

A real ambulance arrived at UCLA, but not necessarily with MJ.  Because we have only one version on the entrance into Emergency entrance, and no footage of the ambulance actually driving there, I was thinking that maybe the arrival picture could have been taken anytime, not on  25th June.  There is an inconsistency with the ambulance that arrived at UCLA....

There was not enough room for any more people in the back of the ambulance, and I believe Murray was in the back, so who else was getting out of the ambulance???  One security guard was preparing to hide him with his jacket.????
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: reveron1958 on March 12, 2011, 07:32:22 AM
I think the difference of the stripes, the letters and the door is that one of the photos is taken with a flash, hence the 'shine' off the reflective lettering etc.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: ijcsly on March 12, 2011, 08:18:25 AM
Quote from: 2good2btrue
Someone already beat me to it, but I also had been working on the ambulance pictures and did some comparisons myself...

Maybe the coroner van video, and the making of it, was released for a reason. To prove that a fake ambulance could have been made for that day...

I believe there were two ambulances, one real and one made up with stickers, etc...

A real ambulance arrived at UCLA, but not necessarily with MJ.  Because we have only one version on the entrance into Emergency entrance, and no footage of the ambulance actually driving there, I was thinking that maybe the arrival picture could have been taken anytime, not on  25th June.  There is an inconsistency with the ambulance that arrived at UCLA....


There was not enough room for any more people in the back of the ambulance, and I believe Murray was in the back, so who else was getting out of the ambulance???  One security guard was preparing to hide him with his jacket.????


bodyguard was putting his jacket on, shaking it out, imo not hiding anyone. This becomes clear when you look at the two pics taken quickly one after the other . I don't have them here but google image mj ambulance ucla or something like that and you'll find the two different oics there.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Its her on March 12, 2011, 07:57:46 PM
Quote from: Grace
Quote from: ignisaeternus
Quote from: AllInGoodTime
The only issue I have ever questioned about the hoax is not videos, pics, staging or buyouts but the ACTUAL Trial.  Most of the "staging" could have been "bought" but the trial of Murray I have always felt to be out of MJ's control.  The trial is the ONLY thing that has ever made think MJ may actually be dead.  I do not feel he could "buy" the judicial system.  So "if" MJ is not alive the trial goes.  And because he IS alive, in my opinion he would have to BAM before it actually starts?   I am only a nurse and not a lawyer but I would think there is some kind of "criminal" issue will a false trial?  Just a thought.  <!-- s:? --> :? <!-- s:? -->
Correct: he could NOT buy the justice system.  But, if it's a sting operation as some of us discussed above, it again makes sense.

I wonder what makes you think one could not buy the judicial system.
Whenever I follow a trial in the U.S., I am astounded how much bazaar one can witness.
And this is certainly not limited to the U.S.The saying "in court and on the high seas one's life is in God's hand" has some meaning.
And some are getting their heads out of water.
Grace, me, TOO. Astounded <!-- s:!: --> :!: <!-- s:!: -->  Somewhat true that the entire system could not be bought at once, by even a gang of bazillionaires,  but there is SOOOO much corruption and deals made behind the scenes and even in manipulating of the law, and arrogantly, publicly, daring to give themselves the authority to EDIT and erroneously restate Statute from the bench, on case by case situation, that, going to court is LITERALLY a crap shoot.

Many people who think they are getting a good thing with their "day in court" are revealing their youth or naivete. People who know, avoid court at ALL cost, unless of course they get a buzz from the uncertainty of the gamble... The Rules of Evidence are bent and broken every day. Evidence is suppressed or "lost" or thrown out, every day.  <!-- s:evil: --> :evil: <!-- s:evil: --> And EVERY one lies.

People who go to court without an attorney ("for just a simple  <!-- s:) --> :) <!-- s:) --> matter of common sense"), are given a "treatment" in the difference between real common sense and the kind that the Court produces from their Kangaroo  <!-- s:twisted: --> :twisted: <!-- s:twisted: --> pouches.

People who do hire an attorney, NEVER even check to see if the one they want to hire is intimidated by the court. <!-- s:o --> :o <!-- s:o -->  Their fate is set by the power dynamic in the court ROOM----not by what is right or wrong. <!-- s:x --> :x <!-- s:x --> 

Your attorney  may have a career-making case on the table with that judge. If he asserts himself on YOUR measley behalf, or corrects  that judge, by simply reading the law, he knows there will be backdraft in the other proceeding.

It is a dirty shame but it is the truth. All attorneys who want to work and win cases, KNOW "...the play's the thing..." how to put on a better show than their opponent, and...which side their bread is buttered on.... <!-- s:? --> :? <!-- s:? -->  Many hate their jobs and try a stint as a prosecutor, before their self-respect makes them quit entirely, or just do divorces and dog bites...

Kangaroo Court feels the same as back to back episodes of the Twilight Zone, playing only inside your head, as everyone else in court is asleep <!-- s:roll: --> :roll: <!-- s:roll: --> , except the adversarial actors sporting at your expense.

Oh, and the jury, if god forbid, one is inexperienced enough to insist upon such, is hypnotized early on. It all boils down to NOTHING more than a personality contest---which of the sides has the most charismatic lawyer. Once the jurors decide they like one better, all the evidence is filtered through those rosey glasses that he would not lie to them.

Many, MANY people pride themselves <!-- s:? --> :? <!-- s:? -->  on the pinhead belief that they are an expert at knowing the inner core and character of people they have never seen or spoken with, by rolling their eyeballs over them during court procedings. They even feel they can "perceive" if the person is lying or not, despite evidence.

Please pause and think about this for a second. It is SO common. PREJUDICE. In gear, on wheels.

To be sure, some people excel in reading body language. Most are not skilled at all in this. This is why lovers and family members, and people at school and in clubs keep killing each other, over "misunderstandings"...!

The average jury pick is not expert in body language. They are stroked into believing they have special powers because the court chose them for this important job.

True! And also true, some savvy people know it's all a racket and that they are just being cost a days pay.

I am not down on the original concept of a jury of your peers; only what has become of it---how it has been corrupted by psychological manipulation. Every one wants to help. Feel important. Be recognized that they are sharper than most others in the drawer...and they will 9 times out of ten, take the side of the "genius" who recognized those characteristics in themselves... <!-- s:? --> :? <!-- s:? -->  <!-- s:roll: --> :roll: <!-- s:roll: -->  God help us.

Even some very conscientious and intelligent individuals <!-- s8-) --> 8-) <!-- s8-) --> , may not have the boldness to argue their point, for one reason or another, or may be pressured into compliance with the group for times sake. Not always. But it does happen. And I have heard this statement TOO  <!-- s:x --> :x <!-- s:x --> much: "well, maybe he didn't do it this time, but he must've done something in his past that he's gotten away with...it just caught up with him and he's in the system, now." This is NOTHING but PREJUDICE mixed with some loose resignation <!-- s:shock: --> :shock: <!-- s:shock: --> to "Karma".

The gamble is that you never know which kind of persons will be chosen FOR you, as "your peers"...

Prejudice. In the court/jury scenario, this "attribute/skill" is played to the hilt as the jury is charmed by Punch and Judy, and stroked in their powers or observation and pop-judging the facts presented to them...

All I am saying, is that it's common knowledge that courts are above reproach, that court can't be manipulated some or even totally staged, or that a real one's verdict can't be planned just as surely as Bigtime Wrestling is-------it ain't necessarily so. The movie Chicago
nailed the facts about courts, and shennanigans therein.

One of the first things they tell students in law school is that the WHOLE thing is a puppet show. There is a good guy and a bad guy and a peanut gallery of puppets to charm over to one side or other, depending on the theatrics of the two sides. Remember, remember, the O.J. Simpson Show?

We don't really know, at ALL,
do we, that MJ's drama in 2005 in front of everyone's eyes on CNN was real or an authentic-appearing scene the likes of Perry Mason.... <!-- s:o --> :o <!-- s:o -->

I may be somewhat of a cynic, but, the entire episode created SUCH a cloud of hatred around MJ, I'm feeling, there's no  <!-- s:cry: --> :cry: <!-- s:cry: --> way he would have walked away un-convicted.

He, a confident (take down challenge) Black man (race hate), with money(jealousy), using his money to build a sick (pride on their ethical high horse) lair for the unsuspecting, had
NO chance of having a fair trial, no matter WHAT evidence they had.

The first thing a jury would look for, prior to the adversarial brainwash competition, would be, WHO is supporting MJ? Where are his 100s of show biz friends and collaborators? What, the courtroom was Sooooo small that the <!-- s:shock: --> :shock: <!-- s:shock: -->  PRESS <!-- s:shock: --> :shock: <!-- s:shock: -->  was given priority seating over family and friends????

What is up with THAT crap?

WHAT? Either that proves my point of court being, many times, a railroad job, or there is an untruth here. Where were heavyweights, respectible adult friends, such as Ross, Taylor, Wonder, Fonda, Minelli, Jones, etc??? Couldn't someone fix it so they could exchange seats with a sibling for a day?

Many times people are even subpoenaed simply for show. They may never be called to testify, cannot be called to the stand by the prosecution, and no one ever has to know WHAT they were in court for, OR that they were summoned and didn't come simply for support of their friend...  I don't know a lot of things, but I know what lawyers can do to win their case. Something is amiss, <!-- s:| --> :| <!-- s:| -->  here.

Court is a popularity contest. Common sense and justice are consistently over ridden by the prevailing EMOTION, which in his case was revulsion and deep, rabid, hatred for sweet, minding his own business, hardworking genius, Michael Jackson. If that court trial was a real criminal trial, it is even
moreof a miracle than people think, that MJ was aquitted <!-- s:!: --> :!: <!-- s:!: -->  I am amazed every time I think about this.

I am
SO happy that MJ was exonerated, especially, because prison is more tragic, disgusting, demeaning and horrifying than most people can even imagine. Forget the worst you've seen on TV. It is far worse than that. Not to mention all of the people inside who never belonged there.

I am hoping MJ is going to

blast the doors off this corruption <!-- s:!: --> :!: <!-- s:!: --> 

Somehow, some way...

(But, no pressure, eh? if you're reading here, and that's not EVEN what it is <!-- s:oops: --> :oops: <!-- s:oops: --> .
Just dreaming <!-- s:? --> :? <!-- s:? --> .)

Remember the movie, Batman Begins ? There is so much in that story that reminds me of MJ and this whole thing. The whole Hero vibe, behind the mask, and not the Batman mask, either; the one we have looked right at, unseeing for 25 years.

Sorry <!-- s:oops: --> :oops: <!-- s:oops: -->  for drifting off topic.

I do have a REAL EMTs, REAL ambulance theory, for those who think THEY see it that way. In a separate post, tho...
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on March 12, 2011, 10:36:52 PM
Quote
Its her wrote:
Many people who think they are getting a good thing with their "day in court" are revealing their youth or naivete. People who know, avoid court at ALL cost, unless of course they get a buzz from the uncertainty of the gamble... The Rules of Evidence are bent and broken every day. Evidence is suppressed or "lost" or thrown out, every day.  And EVERY one lies.
Quote
Its her wrote:
Oh, and the jury, if god forbid, one is inexperienced enough to insist upon such, is hypnotized early on. It all boils down to NOTHING more than a personality contest---which of the sides has the most charismatic lawyer. Once the jurors decide they like one better, all the evidence is filtered through those rosey glasses that he would not lie to them.

Many, MANY people pride themselves  on the pinhead belief that they are an expert at knowing the inner core and character of people they have never seen or spoken with, by rolling their eyeballs over them during court procedings. They even feel they can "perceive" if the person is lying or not, despite evidence.

Please pause and think about this for a second. It is SO common. PREJUDICE. In gear, on wheels.

To be sure, some people excel in reading body language. Most are not skilled at all in this. This is why lovers and family members, and people at school and in clubs keep killing each other, over "misunderstandings"...!

The average jury pick is not expert in body language. They are stroked into believing they have special powers because the court chose them for this important job.
Quote
Its Her wrote:
We don't really know, at ALL, do we, that MJ's drama in 2005 in front of everyone's eyes on CNN was real or an authentic-appearing scene the likes of Perry Mason.... 
Really? Don't lump me in the We don't know crowd. I know very well that the torment Michael felt every day was real. It is written all over his face. You are seriously suggesting that he would go through a painful trial for a side show?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLpABElGXb8[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldVpYzKZQWw&feature=related[/youtube]

So the Man himself believes in the Justice system even though half of it may be broke it doesn't mean all of it is broken. The Justice system did work and he was found Not Guilty. Innocent people do not avoid their day in court.

So what does that say Its her? Michael is revealing his youth or naivete? I find your whole post insulting. You continue to bash in your post that really has nothing to do with the topic of this thread and you are a hypocrite saying the jury is prejudice yet you yourself are doing the exact same thing right now!

Quote
Its Her wrote:
WHO is supporting MJ?
Your statement was in regards to the trial but in this instance and hoax I am supporting him.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: RK on March 12, 2011, 10:59:13 PM
Guys you all amaze me. Everyone has posted well thought out and valid arguments worthy of consideration. TS said in the intro to this thread to keep in mind the goals of the hoax and that two or more strong evidences pointing to the same conclusion are deemed  credibile. This is why I am of the persuasion that the 911 call were fake and fabricated as they deviate from standard practise in that contact was cut during a medical emergency. Coupled with the inability to identify the paramedics in the ambo money shot suggests, to me anyway, they were actors and not paramedics. If perchance they were trained paramedics, they were moonlighting as actors  on that said day. Convenient and practicle eh MJ? So the staged photos are all ready to go, now it was time to go live.  Which brings us to the 25th June at Carolwood. The ambulance was needed there that day for proof of validation by the witnesses such as the tour bus= people with cameras.  People like the macabre, and this opener was the starting point to a world wide attention grabber [I still can't avert my eyes].
If the ambulance at UCLA was not the real abulance 71, but the illusion going live that day, [I can't stop thinking about that  german RTL  clip] it would be a great platform of exposing the manipulation of truth as it is relayed to we the people.  Who would need to be involved? Family and key hoax players [more like employees for this production] + a few personal friends in high or powerful places. If I continue with this train of thought, the trial of our Doc Murrey would be another scene in this fully interactive complex production.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Its her on March 12, 2011, 11:18:00 PM
What if the ambulance on the 25th was real, and the EMTs were real, too? This means there would necessarily have to be a REAL patient pick up, or someone who called for the staffed vehicle goes to JAIL.

Ok, never mind the photo of MJ wired and intubated in AN ambulance. That shot could NOT have come from someone running alongside a moving vehicle. BUT, that is a separate situation, like BlackJack once, said aptly, "a hoax within a hoax"...

Just looking at the situation in front of our eyes---no other info from other theories, ok?
 
Just looking at:
 
 <!-- s:arrow: --> :arrow: <!-- s:arrow: --> 2 real EMTs and
 <!-- s:arrow: --> :arrow: <!-- s:arrow: --> a real patient,
 <!-- s:arrow: --> :arrow: <!-- s:arrow: --> in a real ambulance run for life.

In order for this to work, it STILL doesn't have to be MJ.  But it could be.

Whether it IS or not, is another "hoax within a hoax", too, which I need to go into, briefly.

Right now, I will say it is NOT MJ---too confined of a space to be safe, and MJ is so healthy, he would not fool the medical instruments, that he was in physical duress. But,

Does he NEED to?

All this patient NEEDs to do is have the appearance of an 80 year old man...
which we all know he can do professionally enough to pull it off-----usually.

But, the EMTs would KNOW it was a costume/old man body suit, when they bared his chest and hooked him up to a heart monitor. I'm thinking he would show a flatline through the insulation of rubber---are there any Med Techs reading here now? Perhaps the reason for the premature announcement of death, & orders to keep up rescue efforts.

They planned for this. He can't die inside the ambulance; in my town, the vehicle would go straight to the morgue, not the ER. A change in logistics, last minute, would be a serious problem!

So, the patient was not in costume. Hmmm... <!-- s:| --> :| <!-- s:| -->

He could have been ANYBODY, except MJ or any young person.

He could have been a hard-living, reasonably healthy 65 year old guy. Just looked eighty.

He could have been an older stuntman...Many people look their age in the face, but under their clothes can pass for MUCH younger. Maybe they only exposed part of his chest. Two electrodes.

Many times an ambulance is sent for alarming symptoms which cannot be found by instruments in the ambulance. Panic attacks, indigestion can cause scarey heart pains.

MJ DID say, "pains", did he not?

Well, anyway, the EMTs would have spent more time on him, giving way for the symptoms to reappear...then they would simply fill out the papers and head for the hospital, anyway.

What I don't know, is HOW he can get out of being admitted if those are real EMTs doing their REAL job. I think this is a critical question.

If the players are genuine, when are they told it is a gag?? Unless... <!-- s:o --> :o <!-- s:o -->

What if Station #71 rigged a punking of two newbies, for an initiation...

After it, all parties could/would THEN be sworn to secrecy and contracted to it.  <!-- s8-) --> 8-) <!-- s8-) -->

The only problem is, if either one or both got bent about it, there could be no hoax. <!-- s:shock: --> :shock: <!-- s:shock: -->
Would MJ RISK that? He would not even be ABLE to know this, until after the guys were punked, inside the ambulance! Would MJ plan 25 to 29 years, and have it all  <!-- s:o --> :o <!-- s:o --> come down to a personality's ability to take a joke, whom he has never met ????????????????????????????????????????

I'm not so sure. <!-- s:? --> :? <!-- s:? -->  <!-- s:? --> :? <!-- s:? -->

I know he likes to watch, so MJ MUST be in one of the cars following the ambulance, in disguise or not. But not in the ambulance.

Using real EMTs and ambulance is WAY more risky. Way too many variables and things to go wrong. Things, incidentally, which would be out of MJ's control, once his car took him to the airport.

NO. NO. MJ is Mr. Hands-On.  You KNOW he is!

I think MJ stayed until they even got "the old man" into a getaway car!! <!-- s:lol: --> :lol: <!-- s:lol: -->  <!-- s:lol: --> :lol: <!-- s:lol: -->  <!-- s:lol: --> :lol: <!-- s:lol: --> 
They can't leave him at the hospital to be busted out <!-- s:!: --> :!: <!-- s:!: -->

NO LOOSE ENDS!  <!-- s8-) --> 8-) <!-- s8-) -->  <!-- s:lol: --> :lol: <!-- s:lol: -->

Some of those guys at the open doors of the ambulance (The MJ Hoax Patrol) may have placed him in a robe and a wheelchair and could have nonchalantly wheeled him out to a car, as any other old grandpa, going back home.

It is possible there was NO real hospital involvement, and of course, NO real dead body. Does anyone think that MJ would be caught dead adding even the idea of necromancer to his old standby crime,  <!-- s:x --> :x <!-- s:x -->  you-know-what <!-- s:evil: --> :evil: <!-- s:evil: --> ?? 

The answer is NO. Not a chance.  NO propriety or decency has been disrespected. EVER.

Now, all you have to figure out, is if this could work, and what became of "the man we never knew". <!-- s:o --> :o <!-- s:o -->  <!-- s:P --> :P <!-- s:P --> 

But, that is, if you believe I could be right. <!-- s;) --> ;) <!-- s;) --> 

 <!-- s8-) --> 8-) <!-- s8-) -->

 <!-- s:idea: --> :idea: <!-- s:idea: --> Say, there is a way to determine if the ambulance(s) were real, besides looking at equipment issues which could all be shopped in or out. 

<!-- s:geek: --> :geek: <!-- s:geek: --> Do we have clear pix of the rear license plates?  Have some cop tell you if either one is a real license plate number for a city/county vehicle. Or just compare with the real ones you know are real ambulances. ER vehicles have different number sequences or patterns ---like car dealer plates have a little "D" on them, so cops don't waste time running the plate which won't identify the driver; and trucks have the last 4 numbers grouped together always, (at least in my state) to tell cops there had better be a truck attached to that plate or it may be stolen...I'm sorry, <!-- s:roll: --> :roll: <!-- s:roll: -->  I don't know the pattern or rule for ambulances, particularly in CA.

You LA investigators could let us all know... <!-- s:) --> :) <!-- s:) -->

A Hollywood property ambulance may have a streetworthy plate---but it would be against the law for it to be an official ER vehicle plate.

Do we think MJ would have thought of this, and put a fake/doctored plate on a vehicle??
Well, even, maybe, for just a minute..."the other day"??  <!-- s:?: --> :?: <!-- s:?: -->  <!-- s:shock: --> :shock: <!-- s:shock: -->

I don't think MJ does anything illegal!  <!-- s:D --> :D <!-- s:D -->  I bet the regular old truck (?) plate is on the fake ambulance, STILL, and for less than ten bucks one could look it up at the DMV, and tell, HERE, not all the personal details, just if it is privately owned or a real ambulance. ....(be advised the owner of the vehicle will be told who has inquired about this, and be given your address, in case you are a stalker.)

Now  DON'T Y'all give the man your address!!!!! Have some class. <!-- s:P --> :P <!-- s:P -->  <!-- s:P --> :P <!-- s:P -->  <!-- s:P --> :P <!-- s:P -->  <!-- s:P --> :P <!-- s:P -->

Seriously, I'm NOT  <!-- s:!: --> :!: <!-- s:!: --> suggesting anyone trespass on MJ's property, either.  <!-- s:roll: --> :roll: <!-- s:roll: -->

Just, if you can see this in the pix that were taken, and enhance them to be readable... <!-- s:? --> :? <!-- s:? --> er...get on it!

(If we already did this---SORRY---please, provide me with a link to knowledge? <!-- s:) --> :) <!-- s:) -->

 <!-- s8-) --> 8-) <!-- s8-) --> TANX <!-- s:!: --> :!: <!-- s:!: --> )

Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on March 12, 2011, 11:34:54 PM
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310112#p310112 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310112#p310112)
Quote from: "Im_convincedmjalive"
Quote from: "bec"
Gina, if he did it for money, what's stopping the paramedics from saying, uh, that pic is fake. People who have no interest in keeping it quiet would know that it was fake. It's quite a famous pic. I highly doubt real emt's would say nothing at all about it in 20 months.

Paramedics are more than likely bound by the same privacy/HIPAA laws as doctors, nurses, etc. That is why the real paramedics won't say anything about that day. They legally can't talk about a patient.  ;) They can speak about what happened that day in a court of law because they may have been given a subpoena.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_ ... nformation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_health_information)
Quote
Protected health information (PHI), under the US Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA), is any information about health status, provision of health care, or payment for health care that can be linked to a specific individual. This is interpreted rather broadly and includes any part of a patient’s medical record or payment history.
http://www.hipaa.org/ (http://www.hipaa.org/)
http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/hipaa/un ... index.html (http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/hipaa/understanding/index.html)
Do any of you who keep wondering why the REAL paramedics wouldn't say anything about the photo realize that there is such a thing as patient confidentiality?

Have you read any of the info regarding this issue? The paramedics take their job seriously and yes some would go for a pay out if they were of the greedy nature but most and especially the ones who arrived that day seem to take their job and the patient's privacy very seriously. The reason I believe the 911 dispatcher hung up sooner than one might expect is because Murray was on the scene and the 911 dispatcher stated he (Murray) has a higher authority than him. If Murray (Michael's personal physician) wasn't there than it would make sense for the 911 dispatcher to stay on the line and guide Alberto to do CPR.


My post about UCLA and breached patient files. One of whom is CA Gov. Arnold's wife. viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=311504#p311504 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=311504#p311504)

RunFaYaLife posted some good info.
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=100#p311825 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=100#p311825)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: bec on March 13, 2011, 12:21:15 AM
It's not against the HIPPA law for a paramedic to say that is not him (self, the paramedic "it's not me") appearing as a subject in a famous photograph of the victim of a high profile manslaughter case.

I don't buy it... that the authenticity would never be questioned if real paramedics (not in on it) were involved on 6/25/09.

I'm sticking to common sense dictating that the paramedics were actors, both that day and the other day-- even if that means the LAFD (or at least one) were working as actors at one point.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Elsa on March 13, 2011, 01:19:22 AM
Just the fact that the ambulance had trouble leaving the property is enough for me to doubt that it was a real ambulance in a real emergency situation. I'm sure Ambulance drivers aren't permitted to drive at high speeds weaving in traffic, as they do, without superior driving skills to other drivers - their training must be rigorous.  The guy backing out seems to take too long and needs too much assistance for a real driver who knows his vehicle. Why did he go in there frontways without checking how hard it was going to be to get out?  I need to find the aerial view of the house to check this - I know I've seen it on this site somewhere - but isn't their a circular drive?

Also - why was the fire engine there? Station 71 knew from the 911 call that the emergency was medical not a fire or rescue.  Is that normal practice?  It seems a waste of resources, but I suppose those guys made themselves useful, by setting out the witches hats that stopped traffic in the street and by guiding the ambulance through the gates.  

I believe that whatever Ben filmed that day could not have involved real paramedics believing it to be a real emergency (and anyone who has carefully watched that video would understand why). I think the fire truck was needed to prevent vehicles into the area and so the ambulance had to back out to explain why the whole raod need to be cut from traffic.  So I believe the whole thing was staged including the timing of the tour bus.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Its her on March 13, 2011, 01:20:25 AM
Quote from: Im_convincedmjalive
...Really? Don't lump me in the We don't know crowd. I know very well that the torment Michael felt every day was real. It is written all over his face. You are seriously suggesting that he would go through a painful trial for a side show?


Please don't be insulted. My post was totally from personal experience. It is 100% horrifyingly the truth. You and I had this conversation before. I acquiesced to your point at that time, because, as I posted, personal experience cannot be refuted. At that time I only worked with cases of abuse; and you said you were.

I didn't watch the trial live. It was too upsetting. In 2005 I was a different person. Asleep, inexperienced, and naive beyond ALL belief. I have had my eyes ripped open by the Criminal Justice System.  You have no idea.  End of argument.

I was saying NOTHING about you at all. I don't understand how you took ANYthing I said personally.

I said, WE DO NOT KNOW THAT HIS CRIMINAL TRIAL WAS REAL. None of us DO, for a fact.

MJ cries ON CUE. He is an actor. Have you seen him in concert at all? You can't say you KNOW, any more than any of we other strangers to him can! He is a very clever magician.

This is a hoaxed death investigation and I will investigate in any direction I need to to get to truth. It is the truth that none of us KNOWS the truth about that. The thought NEVER occurred to any of us back then. Now, it is NOT such a taboo. It may be necessary to question.

I didn't say anything about him suffering, or my thinking he's naive. When (if) criminal charges are files against you, you do WHATEVER YOU CAN to loose yourself from that grip. You pay anything to get out of it. MJ said, I think, to Geraldo, once, that he was really naive about certain things. It is NOT a cut on him, simply a fact. MJ was a true innocent for a long time. He admitted it first.

I just have questions.
 
I only stated that we really do not know, knowing what we know NOW, about MJ hoaxing all kind of things, probably tied to this hoax.  And, really, if this is just another twisted hoax of MJ's there actually
IS no painful trial or anguish over a side show.

If it is a side show, it is his, and he thrives on the drama. No investigation?  Some of his first work, unappreciated, possibly.

We need to question things. MJ has made his live thriller my business. He has roped me into his chaos. Maybe he WANTS it to all come out. If he doesn't, he's an adult; HE can speak up through proper channels, here. I hate wasting my time on a dead end. Just tell me to back off. <!-- s:| --> :| <!-- s:| -->

I have said before, all I need is a word from Admin. that this line of investigation is off limits and I'll be silent. I would
NEVERaccuse someone and rub it in (what they supposedly went through). I am fascinated with the MJ I perceive him to be. But who knows how he is, anyway?  You <!-- s:?: --> :?: <!-- s:?: -->   <!-- s:lol: --> :lol: <!-- s:lol: --> I'm just waiting to see if that's the real one who eventually returns. I have been curious about him for decades. I would not waste my time here to cut on him. You misunderstand me, bigtime. But, it's naturally because you don't know me.

For civility's sake on this forum, please don't hold it against me that I learned the Truth the hard way, if it shows that I now trust NO one.  <!-- s:cry: --> :cry: <!-- s:cry: --> I really am attempting to soften my edge, when I don't need it to survive. But, I don't bash anyone but evil, whom I do know intimately. Peace and good sleep.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MJhunny on March 13, 2011, 04:51:37 AM
imo on "THAT" day (not the other day mind you), real 911 call, real ambulance ,real paramedics, real patient just not MJ, but sick (dead??? remember the heating reported as set too high in the room being summer and all; trying to hide time of death???) and old looking, def not recognizable as our man, and our paramedics testified to this under oath in a real court of law. Problems; why no word from these paramedics as to why we CAN recognize MJ in the ambo pic? Imagine this all actually did go down as reported on june 25 2009, thats the thing that keeps me wondering ,how in hell did the paramedics NOT recognize MJ while we can on that pic ?? I suck at all things technical , but is there any evidence that MJ is shopped into that pic at all? Because that could be an agreement between Bens agency and the paramedics and their station/boss that it was to portray MJ in the pic in the best possible way, to give him his dignity and not go out looking like a old ,bald hospice patient.Maybe thats why no paramedics say anything bout the pic, if not bound by law, just maybe out of respect for their patient , who they actually believed to be MJ.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: liegi on March 13, 2011, 05:15:48 AM
There is also a contradiction regarding his hair.  The autopsy report states he had sparse, curly hair. Yet the ambulance photo demonstrates a full head of hair. Paramedics reportedly found an old, Asian-looking man. The photo shows a young-looking Michael.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: sandythyme on March 13, 2011, 08:41:31 AM
I keep thinking about all of these great points everyone is making.  The things that keep me going around in circles the most is the 911 call.  Why did CM wait so long to call , because he was taking care of his patient....the hoax needed the begin at 12:21 in other words.  The paramedics didn't recognize Michael, they saw an old, frail  man. So we know that wasn't Michael.  The picture in the ambulance is a young Michael not now Michael.  Paramedic had trouble backing out of his driveway.  Well, I can drive just as fast backing up as going forward using my side mirrors.  I am nobody special, but I say a paramedic should be an exceptional driver and should be able to drive that vehicle just as well going backwards, turning  or going forwards.  So that in it's self says to me, actor.   I was also thinking about  Prince saying he was interested in directing films and how Michael had a  film person from UCLA come to the house and set up a class room and teach them about film, directing.   Then I looked at this silly but informative site  www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Movie (http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Movie)  choosing locations, actors, getting permission (confidential contracts), locations get permission from the owner.  How many movies have been made in real court rooms?  Many.  Also, how many courtrooms do you see with stuffed toys?  Jermaine..due justice process first, then truth.  I truly believe this is a perfectly scripted movie, a mystery, like a clue game, with get purpose of messages,  also clearing the name of this beautiful man that people have miss understood for so long.  Many of us know this started many years ago, we see the clues, the numbers and now it's being all tied together. The truth will come after the "trial".  So what does that mean, the trial isn't the truth?  I think it really means it's a movie, the truth of just what Michael has gone through.  With contracts made with key people and others will be used as performance artists thinking this is real. I am ONLY throwing thoughts out here.  A couple other thoughts, paps are aggressive how come we only have a few videos, pictures and that's it.  I would think they would be chasing that ambulance down, trying to get into UCLA to get another picture.  I believe as soon as they (the paramedics) got the person into UCLA (which wasn't Michael) we didn't hear it, but I am sure "that's a wrap" was called out.  Jermaine while interviewed  on Larry King back in 2009, he said he went into the room at UCLA to see Michael.  He was lying there, he looked as if he was sleeping so peaceful. His skin was like porcelain.  He opened one of his eyes so he could see his beautiful eye one more time.  This doesn't sound like a person who just went through intense life saving procedures which didn't work. Didn't we hear his skin was starting to discolor and there was bruising?  There are no two stories the same.  Even by the same person.  I tell you if this isn't a movie, then it's just one fine MESS!  Let's not go there! There I am done.  I know you have all heard this before, I just needed to say it.  Thanks for listening.  Take care, Love to All
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: 2good2btrue on March 13, 2011, 09:33:41 AM
Who is the last person to jump out of the ambulance..?  The one the bodyguard is trying really hard to hide ??

Or has this been debunked already ??


viewtopic.php?f=19&t=9059&hilit=+actors+involved+in+the+hoax (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=9059&hilit=+actors+involved+in+the+hoax)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: navibl on March 13, 2011, 09:55:05 AM
@IT'S HER.....I don't usually get caught up in rediculous Innuendos, but the statement about Michael's 2005 trial just completely got under my skin....I did not bother to duplicate your LONG post again.

First....that is not what this tread is about!!!
Second...There ARE many people that were AT that 2005 Trial ..it is as real as the nose on your face! with more pain than anyone should have to suffer in a life time.  And if you didn't even watch it, how can you so callously make such a remark?
Three...This is NOT another TWISTED as you remakred Hoax taking place here...Michael Joe Jackson is in the fight of his life AGAIN!! And to point the world in a direction of HOPE for our Souls, but I am certain that is a FACT that you have completely no understanding of, by any of the remarks you have made..

So I would have to say with all sincerity..if you think Michael's life is one big joke, then maybe this isn't the place for you to post your sentiments or the lack thereof. And PLEASE don't bother to respond because I will not reply, I think enough has been said already. We need to focus on what TS has presented in regards to the paramedics.  

Forgive me Lord and All you Army of Love.... I have to go cry now for Michael and then ask forgiveness for my attitude...but this is just beyond me!!!!!!!!!  I do Love you ALL!
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Andrea on March 13, 2011, 10:52:17 AM
First off, sorry for being off-topic but I just wanted to add a comment about the 2005 trial since it’s legitimacy is being discussed.

I think it’s entirely possible that the 2005 trial is real yet fake at the same time, like Murray’s upcoming trial.

Whether or not you believe the Illumination/NWO are real or not, you have to admit that someone(s) was out to get Michael with the child molestation allegations.  A person doesn’t just willy-nilly accuse an innocent person of that unless your goal is to destroy and humiliate that person.  

I do not believe for a second that Michael willingly went along with a fake trial in 2005, rather, that he was forced to endure a “fake” (but “real”) trial, if that makes any sense.  Whoever was out to get Michael wanted to mind-f*ck MJ in the biggest way, put him through the torture and distress of a trial with an unknown outcome.  I believe the jurors were probably real, as was the verdict (NOT GUILTY!!) but the actual intent of the trial was to f*ck with Michael’s head and force him to submit to them – to say “We can do this to you and there’s nothing you can do about it”.  I don’t normally swear on here but I really can’t think of a better word for what they did to him.

Now, think V for Vendetta, one of the final scenes where Creedy and his men try to destroy V by shooting him down with a barrage of bullets.  V falls to his knees, then stands up tall and says “MY TURN.”  And he brings them all down.

Now we have Murray’s 2011 fake/real upcoming trial.  It’s Michael’s turn now.  He’s in control and he’s showing everyone how easy it is for a complete lie to make it to the court system and how an innocent person can be falsely perceived as something they are not.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: eternalflame on March 13, 2011, 11:34:31 AM
Quote from: "VeryLittleSusie"
(http://www.bittenandbound.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/ambulance-arrives-at-hospital-with-michael-jackson.jpg)
(http://www.buzzchow.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/michael-jackson-hospital-385x386.jpg)

(http://www.cayman27.com.ky/app/webroot/files/t1home_michael_jackson_hospital_x17.jpg)


On these photos - MJ on the stretcher entering the hospital - we can se at least 2 paramedics in dark blue suits....  :?
And i guess Murray is there in the white T-shirt...

I think that all these footage was staged before and handed over to the press/television as the finished material. It was not filmed by CNN as far as I know... (I might be wrong)
They could have easily film it before June 25 and then send it to the media to publish.  Nowadays, nobody bothers to verify the material, we can observe the copy-paste journalism in bloossom...
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: eternalflame on March 13, 2011, 12:01:24 PM
Hi!
I got my focus on the pics that were made at the arriving at UCLA.
Photos 1 and 3 are obviously the same, the only difference is less background in no. 3.
The thing that is disturbing me on these pics is, that obviously nobody is in a hurry. I am working in a hospital, and when I see the paramedics coming in with an emergency, especially with a seriously ill patient, they hurry up a little bit more! :shock:   that means: at least the upper body of the guy with glasses and dark hair should be leant a bit more forward.
The pics are obviously made within 1 or 2 seconds. Paramedics in a hurry should have done more moving during that time...
I am also missing a person who holds up an i.v. bottle. I hope you know what I mean. One normally drives the stretcher, one continues intubation, one carries the i.v. bottle. On all photos they seem too relaxed. combined to the suspiciously slow driving backwards of the ambulance in Carolwood Drive that brings me to the conclusion:
1) they are transporting a person who is already dead
2) they are transporting a person where emergency is not necessary - because this person is not in danger.
In any case this would mean: the ambulance pic that shows MJ is fake anyway.

What I don´t understand is that the paramedics weren´t aware for such a long time that the patient is MJ. Well, I´m just a midwife and no paramedic, but nevertheless I was involved into some cases of emergency concerning pregnant women who started labour at home which became dangerous; although you are in a hurry and the patient is in the center of your interest, you are at least a bit aware of the things that surround the scene - personal things, photos, furniture...
and nobody noticed anything? :ugeek:

Love & Peace
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 13, 2011, 12:50:54 PM
Quote from: "MJhunny"
imo on "THAT" day (not the other day mind you), real 911 call, real ambulance ,real paramedics, real patient just not MJ, but sick (dead??? remember the heating reported as set too high in the room being summer and all; trying to hide time of death???) and old looking, def not recognizable as our man, and our paramedics testified to this under oath in a real court of law. Problems; why no word from these paramedics as to why we CAN recognize MJ in the ambo pic? Imagine this all actually did go down as reported on june 25 2009, thats the thing that keeps me wondering ,how in hell did the paramedics NOT recognize MJ while we can on that pic ?? I suck at all things technical , but is there any evidence that MJ is shopped into that pic at all? Because that could be an agreement between Bens agency and the paramedics and their station/boss that it was to portray MJ in the pic in the best possible way, to give him his dignity and not go out looking like a old ,bald hospice patient.Maybe thats why no paramedics say anything bout the pic, if not bound by law, just maybe out of respect for their patient , who they actually believed to be MJ.

You really think they cared about giving him his dignity?
I wish it would be true but I think all paparazzi, including Ben, look for the most shocking images. I think it is much more valuable for them a photo picturing Michael old, bold, frail, ugly or whatever......

Instead we see a beautiful Michael in that photo..... don't know why that makes me think of Lisa...she said he never let her see him without make up :?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: suspicious mind on March 13, 2011, 12:52:02 PM
can someone answer if the hospital was notified ahead of time that this person was enroute where would the hospital staff be at the time of arrival? waiting further inside or directly at the door?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 13, 2011, 12:59:00 PM
Quote from: "sandythyme"
I  Jermaine while interviewed  on Larry King back in 2009, he said he went into the room at UCLA to see Michael.  He was lying there, he looked as if he was sleeping so peaceful. His skin was like porcelain.  He opened one of his eyes so he could see his beautiful eye one more time.    

he opened one of his eyes? Well, I find this veeeeeery hard to believe. One someone close dies the last thing you do is to open his eyes...at least here we close that person's eyes, not open them. Looks strange, even somehow inappropriate  :?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on March 13, 2011, 01:11:53 PM
Quote
Its Her wrote:
 Please don't be insulted. My post was totally from personal experience. It is 100% horrifyingly the truth. You and I had this conversation before. I acquiesced to your point at that time, because, as I posted, personal experience cannot be refuted. At that time I only worked with cases of abuse; and you said you were.

I didn't watch the trial live. It was too upsetting. In 2005 I was a different person. Asleep, inexperienced, and naive beyond ALL belief. I have had my eyes ripped open by the Criminal Justice System. You have no idea. End of argument.

I was saying NOTHING about you at all. I don't understand how you took ANYthing I said personally.

I said, WE DO NOT KNOW THAT HIS CRIMINAL TRIAL WAS REAL. None of us DO, for a fact.

MJ cries ON CUE. He is an actor. Have you seen him in concert at all? You can't say you KNOW, any more than any of we other strangers to him can! He is a very clever magician.

Um this will be my last response on this topic. When I stated I find your post insulting I was not referring to myself. I was saying your post is INSULTING to Michael. If your post was from personal experience it usually helps if you would write that or IMO so there would be no misunderstanding. We have never had a conversation about the trial. We did have a conversation regarding mind control, Illuminati, DID, etc. Just because I have abuse issues from my past doesn't mean I react off of that in an emotional way nor do I allow my emotions about my own personal stuff influence my opinion on the trial.

You say you didn't watch the trial. Well neither did I. I was in the hospital at the time sedated heavily due to 3 life saving operations. You say you have personal experience: with the Justice system? hmmm well so do I. The life I chose to live is illegal and part of doing that job has risks. One of those risks is going to jail. I have been to jail more times than counting my fingers and toes. I have spent time in jail beyond a day; I did 4   months. I have had a full on jury trial over theft charges which is a felony in the state of Hawaii. I was found Not Guilty.

So again you continue to say WE don't know if his trial was real, like I said I am not a we. Yes it is possible to know for a fact that it wasn't a side show regardless of him being an actor. The charges that he faced had to do with the most disgusting thing. The way I can know for sure; it is called empathy.

Yes I have seen him in concert. 1997 HIStory tour in Hawaii.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 13, 2011, 01:20:23 PM
Hmmmm. I really want to know if the paramedics were real or not.
We don't have that much untill now, do we?
Personally I don't think they were actors, but other people obviously do. I must confess I don't understand the logic of it.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: fordtocarr on March 13, 2011, 01:45:13 PM
Quote from: "sandythyme"
I keep thinking about all of these great points everyone is making.  The things that keep me going around in circles the most is the 911 call.  Why did CM wait so long to call , because he was taking care of his patient....the hoax needed the begin at 12:21 in other words.  The paramedics didn't recognize Michael, they saw an old, frail  man. So we know that wasn't Michael.  The picture in the ambulance is a young Michael not now Michael.  Paramedic had trouble backing out of his driveway.  Well, I can drive just as fast backing up as going forward using my side mirrors.  I am nobody special, but I say a paramedic should be an exceptional driver and should be able to drive that vehicle just as well going backwards, turning  or going forwards.  So that in it's self says to me, actor.   I was also thinking about  Prince saying he was interested in directing films and how Michael had a  film person from UCLA come to the house and set up a class room and teach them about film, directing.   Then I looked at this silly but informative site  http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Movie (http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Movie)  choosing locations, actors, getting permission (confidential contracts), locations get permission from the owner.  How many movies have been made in real court rooms?  Many.  Also, how many courtrooms do you see with stuffed toys?  Jermaine..due justice process first, then truth.  I truly believe this is a perfectly scripted movie, a mystery, like a clue game, with get purpose of messages,  also clearing the name of this beautiful man that people have miss understood for so long.  Many of us know this started many years ago, we see the clues, the numbers and now it's being all tied together. The truth will come after the "trial".  So what does that mean, the trial isn't the truth?  I think it really means it's a movie, the truth of just what Michael has gone through.  With contracts made with key people and others will be used as performance artists thinking this is real. I am ONLY throwing thoughts out here.  A couple other thoughts, paps are aggressive how come we only have a few videos, pictures and that's it.  I would think they would be chasing that ambulance down, trying to get into UCLA to get another picture.  I believe as soon as they (the paramedics) got the person into UCLA (which wasn't Michael) we didn't hear it, but I am sure "that's a wrap" was called out.  Jermaine while interviewed  on Larry King back in 2009, he said he went into the room at UCLA to see Michael.  He was lying there, he looked as if he was sleeping so peaceful. His skin was like porcelain.  He opened one of his eyes so he could see his beautiful eye one more time.  This doesn't sound like a person who just went through intense life saving procedures which didn't work. Didn't we hear his skin was starting to discolor and there was bruising?  There are no two stories the same.  Even by the same person.  I tell you if this isn't a movie, then it's just one fine MESS!  Let's not go there! There I am done.  I know you have all heard this before, I just needed to say it.  Thanks for listening.  Take care, Love to All

I have researched, read books and watched videos, just like you all.  But, my mind keeps coming back to what this post says to sum my findings out.  I keep saying...what is to say, that MICHAEL isn't fueling the media?  With the first DJ announcement, with the Enquirer article, with the ironic released premiere of TII with LA live, with the 911 call, ambulance, the info the media gets, really, who's to say it's not ALL, to control the media??  Isn't that what they've done to him all these years?  
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MJhunny on March 13, 2011, 03:21:57 PM
Quote from: "GINAFELICIA"
Quote from: "MJhunny"
imo on "THAT" day (not the other day mind you), real 911 call, real ambulance ,real paramedics, real patient just not MJ, but sick (dead??? remember the heating reported as set too high in the room being summer and all; trying to hide time of death???) and old looking, def not recognizable as our man, and our paramedics testified to this under oath in a real court of law. Problems; why no word from these paramedics as to why we CAN recognize MJ in the ambo pic? Imagine this all actually did go down as reported on june 25 2009, thats the thing that keeps me wondering ,how in hell did the paramedics NOT recognize MJ while we can on that pic ?? I suck at all things technical , but is there any evidence that MJ is shopped into that pic at all? Because that could be an agreement between Bens agency and the paramedics and their station/boss that it was to portray MJ in the pic in the best possible way, to give him his dignity and not go out looking like a old ,bald hospice patient.Maybe thats why no paramedics say anything bout the pic, if not bound by law, just maybe out of respect for their patient , who they actually believed to be MJ.
You really think they cared about giving him his dignity?
I wish it would be true but I think all paparazzi, including Ben, look for the most shocking images. I think it is much more valuable for them a photo picturing Michael old, bold, frail, ugly or whatever......

Instead we see a beautiful Michael in that photo..... don't know why that makes me think of Lisa...she said he never let her see him without make up :?


ah, but i'm not saying he's dead and they wanted to preserve his dignity, i'm saying that it could be a possible reason why no real paramedics from that day are coming forward and  saying "hey, that pic is fake, he looked nothing like that!" Maybe Ben  convinced the paramedics that MJ deserved to look good on his final pic, the fans are hurting enough yada yada yada...and so everyones lips are sealed. I personally believe that day real paramedics responded to the 911 call and found an old sick man, not MJ. They were surprised when they found out it was supposed to be Michael Jackson. I'm just trying out possible why's that they don't speak up on the pic. As for Ben, well Benjamin is just a  really nice guy, paparazzi sure ,but a nice one .Really.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 13, 2011, 03:48:24 PM
I understand. But in this case I think the paramedics would become suspicious about the whole thing.
I really can't reconcile the photo with their statement that they didn't recognize MJ and with their silence about the photo if they didn't recognize him. Only if they are in. Or maybe none of them saw the photo, maybe they are unaware of the photo, maybe they don't care about MJ and never bothered to follow the story and see the photo.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: scorpionchik on March 13, 2011, 03:55:17 PM
Quote from: "sandythyme"
How many movies have been made in real court rooms?  Many.  Also, how many courtrooms do you see with stuffed toys?  Jermaine..due justice process first, then truth.  I truly believe this is a perfectly scripted movie. The truth will come after the "trial".  So what does that mean, the trial isn't the truth?  I think it really means it's a movie, the truth of just what Michael has gone through.  With contracts made with key people and others will be used as performance artists thinking this is real. I am ONLY throwing thoughts out here.

Sorry to disappoint you , but I did not see Warner Brothers or Paramount Pictures in the courtroom to agree with you it is a movie, it is not a movie. As I said before my point of view is the hoax has been planned and accomplished  before and up to the hospital events. Afterwards  all that related to authorities is real: investigation,courts, etc. Besides autopsy;the AR is still questionable whether it's based on someone who died instead of Michael or coroner was bribed (which to me hardly possible), or Michael really died.
The only possibility I think of  that court is happening to make bad people to believe Michael is dead (not not real court or movie), if there is a proved murder attempt  to Michael and government protects him. Not necessarily MJ needs to be in protective program. In this case MJ will not return.

P.S. I  just suddenly think that may be for members who live far from the USA it is easy to imagine that everything in Hollywood is movie, nothing is real including courts, judges, and DAs? May be that's what happening. If you would have lived here and go to the court or Forest Lawn, be close to see yourself what is happening, you might change your view and rich imagination would blow away? Possibility.  
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MJhunny on March 13, 2011, 04:01:34 PM
Quote from: "GINAFELICIA"
I understand. But in this case I think the paramedics would become suspicious about the whole thing.
I really can't reconcile the photo with their statement that they didn't recognize MJ and with their silence about the photo if they didn't recognize him. Only if they are in. Or maybe none of them saw the photo, maybe they are unaware of the photo, maybe they don't care about MJ and never bothered to follow the story and see the photo.

i agree about the photo and the paramedics stating they did not recognize MJ. I can't believe they'd be in on this, and to date not say anything about it. The fewer in on it ,the better chance of pulling it off. Three can keep a secret ,if two of them are dead...
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: paula-c on March 13, 2011, 04:44:57 PM
Quote
MJhunny wrote:
imo on "THAT" day (not the other day mind you), real 911 call, real ambulance ,real paramedics, real patient just not MJ, but sick (dead??? remember the heating reported as set too high in the room being summer and all; trying to hide time of death???) and old looking, def not recognizable as our man, and our paramedics testified to this under oath in a real court of law. Problems; why no word from these paramedics as to why we CAN recognize MJ in the ambo pic? Imagine this all actually did go down as reported on june 25 2009, thats the thing that keeps me wondering ,how in hell did the paramedics NOT recognize MJ while we can on that pic ?? I suck at all things technical , but is there any evidence that MJ is shopped into that pic at all? Because that could be an agreement between Bens agency and the paramedics and their station/boss that it was to portray MJ in the pic in the best possible way, to give him his dignity and not go out looking like a old ,bald hospice patient.Maybe thats why no paramedics say anything bout the pic, if not bound by law, just maybe out of respect for their patient , who they actually believed to be MJ.



with this we must conclude that MJ knew it was going to die on June 25, 2009 at a certain time?, so Ben was that day at home waiting for the "fatal outcome", I do not think so ;)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: sandythyme on March 13, 2011, 05:15:14 PM
Hi Scorpionchik

"P.S. I just suddenly think that may be for members who live far from the USA it is easy to imagine that everything in Hollywood is movie, nothing is real including courts, judges, and DAs? May be that's what happening. If you would have lived here and go to the court or Forest Lawn, be close to see yourself what is happening, you might change your view and rich imagination would blow away? Possibility."

I do live in the USA, I understand what you are saying completely.  I was only throwing some thoughts around.  I worked for lawyers and the court system years ago.  So I do understand.  I was trying to toss some ideas around, sometimes the most illogical ideas can help you find the logical.  That's all.  Take care.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on March 13, 2011, 05:22:56 PM
You sure it is not against the HIPPA law? Btw: I have a background in medical coding and billing. I have worked for a private Dr.'s office and I have worked for a health insurance company processing claims and customer service. I legally could not say (outside of the realm of my job) I didn't work on so and so claim.
Only exception to that would be if I was given certain privilege to speak on it.

Quote from: bec
It's not against the HIPPA law for a paramedic to say that is not him (self, the paramedic "it's not me") appearing as a subject in a famous photograph of the victim of a high profile manslaughter case.

I don't buy it... that the authenticity would never be questioned if real paramedics (not in on it) were involved on 6/25/09.

I'm sticking to common sense dictating that the paramedics were actors, both that day and the other day-- even if that means the LAFD (or at least one) were working as actors at one point.
Quote
Protected health information (PHI), under the US Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA), is any information about health status, provision of health care, or payment for health care that can be linked to a specific individual. This is interpreted rather broadly and includes any part of a patient’s medical recordor payment history.
The paramedics are providing the patient health care therefore they become part of the privacy issue. They also become part of the patient's medical record.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm guilty of saying some outrages things on how this happened. Running two theories at the same time, lol

I said Michael rode to the hospital on the gurney based on footage being shown to us of a dude sitting up. I also said that footage could of been a subliminal clue to get people wondering who the heck was that? I also said one of the paramedics was suspect to me in the sense he looks similiar to Michael. I also said that the paramedic in question was shown being filmed through the gate and that perhaps that was another subliminal clue to get people wondering who the heck is that? I also said that would connect the dots to the paramedic in question as being Michael riding to the hospital not as a dead person but his own medic.

I am now going to defer to the post from TS that gives hints and clues to how this was done and how many would need to be in on it.

Peace

<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=125&t=7194 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=125&t=7194)<!-- l -->
Quote
4-36. Hoax Objections Answered

Those who believe in the intentional murder theory, as well as those who believe the official story, have often given one or more of the following reasons against the hoax: there would be way too many people “in on it” (so surely someone would’ve let the cat out of the bag by now); or, many of the things that have happened would be illegal, if it was a hoax; or, the government would not be in on a plan to expose corruption in the government, etc.

First and most important: the intentional murder theory (designed to look like a fake death) would require as much or more people to be “in on it”, than the hoax theory (it even requires the family to be involved). And if it’s possible to get people involved in murder, for whatever reason (money, or power, or whatever): don’t you think it would be even easier to get people involved in a hoax?

Besides, the entire state of California is not in on the hoax. MJ has been planning this hoax for many years; and he had the time and influence to get a few key people in the right positions to pull it off—and yes, even government agencies still have some good people in them. Look at history: many times people in high positions have stood up against the corruption in their own system (government, or church, etc).

But MJ did not involve large quantities of people. In fact, the “three-way theory” is basically correct {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=5382&start=0}; this theory states that the fewer people “in on it”, the better (although more than three are actually involved, and the “three-way theory” does allow for more than three).

Also, as far as possible, legal loopholes were used. Nevertheless, with a hoax of this magnitude and importance: whether the line was ever crossed, between being inside or outside of legal loopholes, is a question that probably doesn’t even need to be answered.

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4-37. Hints on the “How’s” of the Hoax

In this update, I have gone into great detail about the timing of the hoax (as well as a few other aspects). Previously, I have gone into great detail about the reasons for the hoax {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/search.php?author_id=1440&sr=posts}. That leaves only one frontier remaining: how did MJ succeed in pulling off this massive hoax?

I’m not going to go into great detail on that now, it would be very long—and this update is already the longest update by far. But I will give some hints, to help you go in the right direction if you want to investigate it further.

For starters, maybe it is time to create a sub-forum for Coherent Theories. By this, I mean theories that start putting all the pieces together, fitting into one bigger picture. But we can’t have MJ hopping on a plane at LAX, escaping out of a tunnel in the basement of UCLA, and riding alive in the helicopter to the coroner’s office, as well as in the other helicopter—all at the same time. This would not qualify as a coherent theory.

I think we already have a huge clue from Jermaine, telling us that MJ went to the “airport”—NOT the hospital. And in fact, it would’ve been very risky and unnecessary for him to ride alive in the ambulance to UCLA, and then go into UCLA where he could be easily recognized (and hard to play dead), and then try to escape somehow. What would be the point?

Based on the planned timing of the hoax, we should now be able to see very plainly that the living MJ body double theory doesn’t work. There is no chance that a living double just happened to die on the right year, the right day, and the right hour.

This leaves us with three possibilities. There was no body at all, which would require quite a few people to be “in on it”. There was a dummy, not a real human; this reduces the number of people “in on it”, and also makes it easy to duplicate the looks of MJ (but paramedics would need to be “in on it”, because they would not be fooled by a dummy). Or there was a real human corpse, which had recently died. In fact, at different times and places, there could’ve been more than one corpse and/or dummy used as needed.

Considering the corpse possibility: do you remember anything about the room being heated extra warm—in the summer of all times {http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/26/jackson-time-of-death-a-mystery/}? Maybe the room was heated to make the corpse feel warm, like it had just died. And do you remember the paramedics saying that MJ had been dead for more than an hour before they arrived—and also that they did not realize it was MJ, and thought it looked like an old man? {http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/27/paramedics-jackson-dead-when-we-arrived/; <!-- m -->http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/25/michael-j ... c-arrest/; (http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/25/michael-jackson-dies-death-dead-cardiac-arrest/;)<!-- m --> <!-- m -->http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/26/michael-j ... -911-call/ (http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/26/michael-jackson-the-911-call/)<!-- m -->}

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4-38. Only a Few Would Need to Be “In On It”

Let me also clue you in on a few tricks, so that only a relatively few people would need to be “in on it”. The endlessly discussed helicopter ride to the coroner: it could’ve had a living and/or a dead body in it, but not MJ; and yet none of the people in the copter, or working that situation, would’ve had any clue that MJ was alive.

All you would need to do is create a diversion for the media and public: the helicopter and all would be a big show for the media, while they transport the (supposedly) “real” MJ’s body in an unmarked vehicle—this would keep MJ’s body safer. And all the people “involved” in that diversion operation would play right along, and obey without question like good little boys and girls, thinking all the while that MJ’s dead body was being transported in some unmarked vehicle (and not even questioning whether or not MJ was actually dead). And even if they suspected later that MJ is alive, how would they know? They would not know, they would just suspect it (like hoax believers).

The fact that it’s a criminal case is another good alibi for secrecy and cover-up; this way, nobody thinks twice when they’re told not to talk about what they did or did not see at UCLA on June 25 (or other times and places).

Some have said that Forest Lawn (FL) would need to be in on the hoax; and maybe they are, but maybe not. If there was an actual dead body used during at least some of the process: then a dead body could’ve been at FL, even though it was not MJ. And sooner or later, the family could say: “We’ve decided to bury MJ somewhere else; but for privacy and security reasons, we want the public to think that he is buried here.”

They might even have FL sign confidentiality agreements, promising not to let anyone know that MJ was not buried at FL. Of course FL would still get paid, because the family did purchase space there {http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/04/us/04jackson.html}; and since FL got their money, they would not care where MJ was actually buried, and that would be the end of it—FL might never imagine that MJ is still alive.

Do I need to give any more hints? I think I’ve said enough already. Besides, you want some surprises left for after Bamsday, don’t you?

Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: sandythyme on March 13, 2011, 05:30:58 PM
Gina:

    sandythyme wrote:I Jermaine while interviewed on Larry King back in 2009, he said he went into the room at UCLA to see Michael. He was lying there, he looked as if he was sleeping so peaceful. His skin was like porcelain. He opened one of his eyes so he could see his beautiful eye one more time.

"he opened one of his eyes? Well, I find this veeeeeery hard to believe. One someone close dies the last thing you do is to open his eyes...at least here we close that person's eyes, not open them. Looks strange, even somehow inappropriate :?

That's what makes me question Jermaine in the hospital because you are right,  it is very hard to believe and inappropriate.  Let me go through the interviews tonight if I can find it I will PM you.  Thanks and take care
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: sandythyme on March 13, 2011, 05:38:45 PM
Fordtocarr

I have researched, read books and watched videos, just like you all. But, my mind keeps coming back to what this post says to sum my findings out. I keep saying...what is to say, that MICHAEL isn't fueling the media? With the first DJ announcement, with the Enquirer article, with the ironic released premiere of TII with LA live, with the 911 call, ambulance, the info the media gets, really, who's to say it's not ALL, to control the media?? Isn't that what they've done to him all these years?

You have a very good point.  Michael could be giving it right back to them.  Good thought.  It is so interesting how so many people can have so many great ideas.  Take care
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: scorpionchik on March 13, 2011, 05:51:02 PM
Quote from: "sandythyme"
Hi Scorpionchik

"P.S. I just suddenly think that may be for members who live far from the USA it is easy to imagine that everything in Hollywood is movie, nothing is real including courts, judges, and DAs? May be that's what happening. If you would have lived here and go to the court or Forest Lawn, be close to see yourself what is happening, you might change your view and rich imagination would blow away? Possibility."

I do live in the USA, I understand what you are saying completely.  I was only throwing some thoughts around.  I worked for lawyers and the court system years ago.  So I do understand.  I was trying to toss some ideas around, sometimes the most illogical ideas can help you find the logical.  That's all.  Take care.

Working with lawyers and being in courts make it possible you to believe judge and counselors can star movie puting toys around to be a subject of joke? That's what you call illogical idea that will bring us to logical answers? So far we have 1 video made by someone who could put those toys through photoshop and out on youtube to make fun of our legal system. The woman who was actually on prelim hearing  I met in the court does not say in her video that there were toys all over the room, does she?
I am not debunking hoax of course, but I am against the idea to believe that authorities are in the hoax. They may protect Michael if that is the case and it still proves that their acts are real.
And the fact that  my post does not get replies is only proves that my statements are so true & logical that no one can challenge otherwise.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: sandythyme on March 13, 2011, 06:06:41 PM
Hi Scorpionchik

Working with lawyers and being in courts make it possible you to believe judge and counselors can star movie puting toys around to be a subject of joke? That's what you call illogical idea that will bring us to logical answers?

I bid you respect.  My thoughts are my own and I apologize if you are taking them incorrectly.  That's ok.  I appreciate what you are trying to say.  Take care.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: suspicious mind on March 13, 2011, 06:06:57 PM
question : how does it work when people file claims against the estate. like we know klien filed one and some others . is that public knowledge? if so if michael was actually treated at the hospital shouldn't some kind of claim have been filed ?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: fordtocarr on March 13, 2011, 07:33:08 PM
Quote from: "sandythyme"
Fordtocarr

I have researched, read books and watched videos, just like you all. But, my mind keeps coming back to what this post says to sum my findings out. I keep saying...what is to say, that MICHAEL isn't fueling the media? With the first DJ announcement, with the Enquirer article, with the ironic released premiere of TII with LA live, with the 911 call, ambulance, the info the media gets, really, who's to say it's not ALL, to control the media?? Isn't that what they've done to him all these years?

You have a very good point.  Michael could be giving it right back to them.  Good thought.  It is so interesting how so many people can have so many great ideas.  Take care

And I thank you back :D
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: TS_comments on March 13, 2011, 11:43:18 PM
Quote from: "ignisaeternus"
I agree with most of It'sHer's theorie, re actor paramedics, staged 911 calls etc. With the addition of low enforcement involvement on some level. It is really the only thing explaining why the real ambulance 71 crew has not spoken up. Also, it ties in to the previously addressed code 71- meaning approved absence. If nothing was random, than the choice of # of ambulance was not, either.
Also, if there was no real 911 call, and there is no law enforcement involvement, I think actual authorites would have come forward.  You can't pay off everyone.  And- there are bigger lures than short-term gain. Meaning, notoriety for exposing the hoax.

To me, some degree of witness protection, similar program, or law enforcement involvement (remember, the chief of la police resigned shortly after June 09- at least I think that's who it was, or other high up police official) is the ONE thing that ties together the non-matching photos, the different version 911 calls, the real paramedics vs actors issue, and impunity.  I always believed there was a threat to Michael's life- as did he according to several people.  Maybe, he finally got the attention he deserved and things tied into his long-term plans.
It also helps explain changes in BAM timeline as well as trail date changes- if things are not purely up to Michael.

Several people are generally on the right track, including this quoted comment here and the one before it {by MsTrinity333, http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=150#p312205}.  So I am now going to drop a huge clue.  Actually, I thought someone would find this before now, especially with the timing clue that I gave when I posted the beginning of this thread (MsTrinity333   :o ).

Here is your big clue: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: PureLove on March 13, 2011, 11:58:01 PM
MsTrinity wrote almost the same theory I wrote on page 3.

Quote from: "PureLove"
I haven't read all 3 pages yet, so this theory could have been written before. Here is my theory regarding to the ambulance issue. An ambulance that looks like the real ambulance came to a studio or Michael's house before 6-25-09. There were actors to play paramedics. And the pictures were taken on that day. And the ambulance went to the hospital with Michael inside on that day as well where we had these photos of him getting into the hospital sitting on the stretcher.

(http://www.cayman27.com.ky/app/webroot/files/t1home_michael_jackson_hospital_x17.jpg)

And on 6-25-2009 a real ambulance came to MJ's house with real paramedics and they found an old Asian looking man, probably who died hours ago and tried to survive him. And that is the reason why the paramedics said the patient didn't look like Michael. I still believe a dead body was used on 6-25 because of the paramedics' comments about the patient and how MJ's room was kept warm in the middle of summer. And the paramedics who are in court are also the real paramedics who went MJ's house on 6-25. I do not know if they said anything related how the patient looked like on that day in their testimony but probably they thought that MJ was so sick and fragile and that was the reason why he looked like an old guy. Michael can be the most famous person in this world but he wasn't in front of the cameras for some time and not everyone is his fans to follow and catch up what he looks like recently.

Michael had to use a fake ambulance to make fake photos because you could never know if someone (who has an agreement like Ben or some random people who were there) can take a nice shot of inside of the ambulance when the ambulance is moving. The scene needed to look real on 6-25 and there had to be witnesses that an ambulance was there on that day. And the ambulance was slow, without the sirens but still it couldn't stop and wait there for people to get nice shots through tinted windows.

So I believe that is the reason why Michael staged an ambulance scene before the real one on 6-25. And he used photoshop and changed his face, added some extra clues for us to understand the ambo pic is fake. BUT it couldn't be too fake to make everyone understand that it is fake. Until the statement came from Brian Oxman due to fake ambulance picture, people(non-believers) were still considering it as a real picture.

Probably Ben was called on the staged ambo day and on the real ambo day, to take the pictures on the staged ambo day and to be there on 6-25 to talk and make a statement like he was the one who took the ambo pictures. Do we even see this guy around the ambulance or his friend what ever he looks like on 6-25? And why that guy who took the picture doesn't talk but Ben does? To make a "goof" like "... on that day and the other d... umm"?

I always thought that Michael was under some kind of protection program and that explains how the DA, the police, the court etc are involved in the hoax. He needed their help to pull this off and make everything legal, especially not to get in trouble after he comes back.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: PureLove on March 14, 2011, 12:02:16 AM
This is what it says on the link TS wrote:


Public Corruption

It’s our top priority among criminal investigations—and for good reason.
Public corruption poses a fundamental threat to our national security and way of life. It impacts everything from how well our borders are secured and our neighborhoods protected…to verdicts handed down in courts…to the quality of our roads, schools, and other government services. And it takes a significant toll on our pocketbooks, wasting billions in tax dollars every year.

The FBI is singularly situated to combat this corruption, with the skills and capabilities to run complex undercover operations and surveillance.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MJhasSpoken on March 14, 2011, 12:17:12 AM
I thought MJ could some how be under the WPP without being fully under it. I remember someone asking (Integrity...viewtopic.php?f=5&t=18190 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=18190)) asking a question if MJ is under witness protection...I guess you got your answer.  :)

So is there more to it (this thread), so the paramedics, courts and all that are a setup by the Government...so does that mean the paramedics know that they are part of the hoax or do they think that they are just working with the government?. Which brings me to the question, since MJ is in under some sort of protection what information is MJ giving to them for the government to help him or was his life really in danger?.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: PureLove on March 14, 2011, 12:32:38 AM
Quote from: "MJhasSpoken"
So is there more to it (this thread), so the paramedics, courts and all that are a setup by the Government...so does that mean the paramedics know that they are part of the hoax or do they think that they are just working with the government?. Which brings me to the question, since MJ is in under some sort of protection what information is MJ giving to them for the government to help him or was his life really in danger?.

When we look at the numerology part of the hoax it definitely tells us why Michael had to fake his death. It is about exposing illuminati. I do think that Michael did this not only for his and his children's safety but also for all of our safeties. To open our eyes to the truth, to make us see what is really going on underneath the surface. Was he in danger? Yes, he was like all of us are. But as a very strong power in music industry, of course he was in more danger than anybody else is.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 14, 2011, 12:42:38 AM
Hello eveybody.
I usually hate Mondays, especially in the morning.

But today TS decided to put us on a track. I hope TS is not playing games, sustaining once again theories TS doesn't believe in, just to challenge us.

I am not surprised of the track he's pointing to, as it is the only LOGICAL explanation - as I see it - that reconciles ALL the inconsistances of that day. Unless everything was one big joke of God.

So we are back to FBI, sorry I said CIA first, I made a mistake, but when I realised it - it was too late to edit my post.

If this track is not a deceiving one I guess the next question is what the public corruption
has to do with Michael Jackson and what is  Michael's part in this whole operation.

"It’s our top priority among criminal investigations—and for good reason.

Public corruption poses a fundamental threat to our national security and way of life. It impacts everything from how well our borders are secured and our neighborhoods protected…to verdicts handed down in courts…to the quality of our roads, schools, and other government services. And it takes a significant toll on our pocketbooks, wasting billions in tax dollars every year.

The FBI is singularly situated to combat this corruption, with the skills and capabilities to run complex undercover operations and surveillance."

This to me refers only to United States of America, their borders, their roads, schools and everything. And how comes FBI releases this with ... in it?! Really, official releases don't contain ...  :?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 14, 2011, 12:49:52 AM
Maybe the public corruption in Michael's case is reffering to Sneddon and all the false acusations against Michael and to the persons who were behind Sneddon, who wanted to bring Michael down and used Sneddon as a pawn  ?!
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Yambo3003 on March 14, 2011, 01:52:34 AM
Reading what TS has giving us has a huge clue it kinda reminded me of this...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N0Ogaskv88[/youtube]


Could this be real? I believe of course he must have some kind of help from various agencies or maybe less than two. This is all one big puzzle (hoax) that piece by piece by piece...will come together.

(http://www.kristinaevey.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/puzzle_pieces.gif)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 14, 2011, 02:06:26 AM
Quote from: TS_comments
Quote from: ignisaeternus
I agree with most of It'sHer's theorie, re actor paramedics, staged 911 calls etc. With the addition of low enforcement involvement on some level. It is really the only thing explaining why the real ambulance 71 crew has not spoken up. Also, it ties in to the previously addressed code 71- meaning approved absence. If nothing was random, than the choice of # of ambulance was not, either.
Also, if there was no real 911 call, and there is no law enforcement involvement, I think actual authorites would have come forward.  You can't pay off everyone.  And- there are bigger lures than short-term gain. Meaning, notoriety for exposing the hoax.

To me, some degree of witness protection, similar program, or law enforcement involvement (remember, the chief of la police resigned shortly after June 09- at least I think that's who it was, or other high up police official) is the ONE thing that ties together the non-matching photos, the different version 911 calls, the real paramedics vs actors issue, and impunity.  I always believed there was a threat to Michael's life- as did he according to several people.  Maybe, he finally got the attention he deserved and things tied into his long-term plans.
It also helps explain changes in BAM timeline as well as trail date changes- if things are not purely up to Michael.

Several people are generally on the right track, including this quoted comment here and the one before it {by MsTrinity333, http://http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=150#p312205 (http://http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=150#p312205)}.  So I am now going to drop a huge clue.  Actually, I thought someone would find this before now, especially with the timing clue that I gave when I posted the beginning of this thread (MsTrinity333   <!-- s:o --> :o <!-- s:o --> ).

Here is your big clue: http://http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption (http://http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption)
<!-- s:oops: --> :oops: <!-- s:oops: -->  <!-- s:oops: --> :oops: <!-- s:oops: -->  <!-- s:oops: --> :oops: <!-- s:oops: -->

And there I was, looking for clues in your posting times and even asked what numerology had to do with your question and I didn´t catch it... 333, the number of pages of the FBI files. **Bangs head against wall** This proves even more that I really need a new brain. We have been discussing the FBI and it's involvement many times last year, and somehow it took a backseat in my head.

Does this mean that the leave pattern in the ambulance picture refers to the laurel branches in the FBI shield?

I need to think about that undercover thing. If he has been an undercover agent/informant, it would explain a lot, including the Joe-Joseph mystery on legal papers for example. And if this is the case, it hasn't been since June 25, but for years already.

Okay, I'm going to fry my brain over this again.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Its her on March 14, 2011, 02:29:33 AM
Quote from: MJhunny
imo on "THAT" day (not the other day mind you), real 911 call, real ambulance ,real paramedics, real patient just not MJ, but sick (dead??? remember the heating reported as set too high in the room being summer and all; trying to hide time of death???) and old looking, def not recognizable as our man, and our paramedics testified to this under oath in a real court of law. Problems; why no word from these paramedics as to why we CAN recognize MJ in the ambo pic? Imagine this all actually did go down as reported on june 25 2009, thats the thing that keeps me wondering ,how in hell did the paramedics NOT recognize MJ while we can on that pic ?? I suck at all things technical , but is there any evidence that MJ is shopped into that pic at all?

Because that could be an agreement between Bens agency and the paramedics and their station/boss that it was to portray MJ in the pic in the best possible way, to give him his dignity and not go out looking like a old ,bald hospice patient. 

Maybe thats why no paramedics say anything bout the pic, if not bound by law, just maybe out of respect for their patient , who they actually believed to be MJ

Hi MJhunny,

I just wanted to tell you that, the words I have enlarged, your words, express the purest,  kindest, most naturally sincere sentiment, in applying a motive to others, that I have heard here in MONTHs.

It blessed and caught me way off guard, to find that someone would apply kindness and consideration; a little HUMANITY,  <!-- s8-) --> 8-) <!-- s8-) --> to the same pix and the players involved with it, which all of us have been focused on technically, mechanically dissecting, pretty much...

Man <!-- s:!: --> :!: <!-- s:!: -->  I can't tell you how sweet that is.

You thought of it, because it is what YOU would do. You must be very sweet. Bless you for sharing that Love!!  <!-- s:D --> :D <!-- s:D -->  <!-- s:D --> :D <!-- s:D -->  <!-- s:D --> :D <!-- s:D -->
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MJhasSpoken on March 14, 2011, 02:30:10 AM
Quote from: ~Souza~
Quote from: TS_comments
Quote from: ignisaeternus
I agree with most of It'sHer's theorie, re actor paramedics, staged 911 calls etc. With the addition of low enforcement involvement on some level. It is really the only thing explaining why the real ambulance 71 crew has not spoken up. Also, it ties in to the previously addressed code 71- meaning approved absence. If nothing was random, than the choice of # of ambulance was not, either.
Also, if there was no real 911 call, and there is no law enforcement involvement, I think actual authorites would have come forward.  You can't pay off everyone.  And- there are bigger lures than short-term gain. Meaning, notoriety for exposing the hoax.

To me, some degree of witness protection, similar program, or law enforcement involvement (remember, the chief of la police resigned shortly after June 09- at least I think that's who it was, or other high up police official) is the ONE thing that ties together the non-matching photos, the different version 911 calls, the real paramedics vs actors issue, and impunity.  I always believed there was a threat to Michael's life- as did he according to several people.  Maybe, he finally got the attention he deserved and things tied into his long-term plans.
It also helps explain changes in BAM timeline as well as trail date changes- if things are not purely up to Michael.

Several people are generally on the right track, including this quoted comment here and the one before it {by MsTrinity333, http://http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=150#p312205 (http://http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=150#p312205)}.  So I am now going to drop a huge clue.  Actually, I thought someone would find this before now, especially with the timing clue that I gave when I posted the beginning of this thread (MsTrinity333   <!-- s:o --> :o <!-- s:o --> ).

Here is your big clue: http://http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption (http://http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption)
<!-- s:oops: --> :oops: <!-- s:oops: -->  <!-- s:oops: --> :oops: <!-- s:oops: -->  <!-- s:oops: --> :oops: <!-- s:oops: -->

And there I was, looking for clues in your posting times and even asked what numerology had to do with your question and I didn´t catch it... 333, the number of pages of the FBI files. **Bangs head against wall** This proves even more that I really need a new brain. We have been discussing the FBI and it's involvement many times last year, and somehow it took a backseat in my head.

Does this mean that the leave pattern in the ambulance picture refers to the laurel branches in the FBI shield?

I need to think about that undercover thing. If he has been an undercover agent/informant, it would explain a lot, including the Joe-Joseph mystery on legal papers for example. And if this is the case, it hasn't been since June 25, but for years already.

Okay, I'm going to fry my brain over this again.

Where does it say the number of pages in the FBI files?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: PureLove on March 14, 2011, 02:35:49 AM
Quote from: "~Souza~"
**Bangs head against wall** This proves even more that I really need a new brain. Does this mean that the leave pattern in the ambulance picture refers to the laurel branches in the FBI shield?

(http://i53.tinypic.com/15xrbec.gif)

Ohh dear God, I needed more than one brain to understand that the leaf pattern at the fake ambo pic was about the FBI shield.
 :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 14, 2011, 02:41:06 AM
Quote from: "Yambo3003"
Reading what TS has giving us has a huge clue it kinda reminded me of this...

[youtube:3basdzs1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N0Ogaskv88[/youtube:3basdzs1]


Could this be real? I believe of course he must have some kind of help from various agencies or maybe less than two. This is all one big puzzle (hoax) that piece by piece by piece...will come together.

(http://www.kristinaevey.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/puzzle_pieces.gif)

I always thought it was real, but probably isn't.
I was also thinking of it in the last days.
It is a good time now to review all that happened those days. Things are more clear.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 14, 2011, 02:41:20 AM
Quote from: MJhasSpoken
Where does it say the number of pages in the FBI files?

FBI Delays Release of MJ Extortion Documents
12/21/2009 10:18 AM PST by TMZ Staff 

(http://http://ll-media.tmz.com/2009/12/21/michael_jackson_getty_52105837_exd-1.jpg)

The FBI will not release Michael Jackson documents relating to the molestation investigations as well as extortion attempts -- at least not today.

The 333 pages of formerly-classified documents were supposed to be released today but the snow in Washington D.C. has caused a delay of at least one day.

As for what's in the documents ... sources tell TMZ during the 1993 Michael Jackson child molestation investigation, the late great Johnnie Cochran contacted the FBI, claiming the accuser's family was trying to extort money from Jackson with false allegations. It's likely Cochran's contact with the agency will show up when the documents are released.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MJonmind on March 14, 2011, 02:42:10 AM
That is interesting! That would explain why TS would focus on that seeming small detail of the leaves.

I just have some questions about all this. Anybody who has watched National Treasure or been on any conspiracy sites will know the whole foundation of the government of US, the National Reserve and powers running it, the CIA and relationship to Israel etc. is not necessarily benevolent.  How could the FBI be somehow separate from this agenda of TPTB or Illuminati whatever, and the real good guys.

MJ has obviously been planned on hoaxing his death for many years as shown in his videos and lyrics, incorporating complex numerology. How could that now be passed over to the FBI as their creative genius. Or did MJ just offer his services to them and use them for his purposes without them knowing.

I still think if MJ was in real danger that his 3 children would also be in danger, yet they appear out in public and have appeared happy and okay with this situation.

If MJ really was in the witness program I don't think there would be any clues left for people believe he is alive. It would be clean. There are obviously many deliberate clues laid out like a trail of crumbs.

I'm having a hard time with this. :?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 14, 2011, 02:43:24 AM
Quote from: "PureLove"
Quote from: "~Souza~"
**Bangs head against wall** This proves even more that I really need a new brain. Does this mean that the leave pattern in the ambulance picture refers to the laurel branches in the FBI shield?

(http://i53.tinypic.com/15xrbec.gif)

Ohh dear God, I needed more than one brain to understand that the leaf pattern at the fake ambo pic was about the FBI shield.
 :lol:

Well, I said Peter Pan and I was close enough, because he wears green  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 14, 2011, 02:45:45 AM
Quote from: Its her
Quote from: MJhunny
imo on "THAT" day (not the other day mind you), real 911 call, real ambulance ,real paramedics, real patient just not MJ, but sick (dead??? remember the heating reported as set too high in the room being summer and all; trying to hide time of death???) and old looking, def not recognizable as our man, and our paramedics testified to this under oath in a real court of law. Problems; why no word from these paramedics as to why we CAN recognize MJ in the ambo pic? Imagine this all actually did go down as reported on june 25 2009, thats the thing that keeps me wondering ,how in hell did the paramedics NOT recognize MJ while we can on that pic ?? I suck at all things technical , but is there any evidence that MJ is shopped into that pic at all?

Because that could be an agreement between Bens agency and the paramedics and their station/boss that it was to portray MJ in the pic in the best possible way, to give him his dignity and not go out looking like a old ,bald hospice patient.

Maybe thats why no paramedics say anything bout the pic, if not bound by law, just maybe out of respect for their patient , who they actually believed to be MJ

Hi MJhunny,

I just wanted to tell you that, the words I have enlarged, your words, express the purest,  kindest, most naturally sincere sentiment, in applying a motive to others, that I have heard here in MONTHs.

It blessed and caught me way off guard, to find that someone would apply kindness and consideration; a little HUMANITY,  <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> to the same pix and the players involved with it, which all of us have been focused on technically, mechanically dissecting, pretty much...

Man <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: -->  I can't tell you how sweet that is.

You thought of it, because it is what YOU would do. You must be very sweet. Bless you for sharing that Love!!  <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->  <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->  <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->

I agree, it is such very human and nice to think about this.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 14, 2011, 02:52:19 AM
Quote from: "~Souza~"

I need to think about that undercover thing. If he has been an undercover agent/informant, it would explain a lot, including the Joe-Joseph mystery on legal papers for example. And if this is the case, it hasn't been since June 25, but for years already.

Okay, I'm going to fry my brain over this again.

Michael to be an undercover agent for FBI?

OHHHHHH......I don't think so but we need proofs.....
What Michael has to do with public corruption issue except that public corruption affected his life when he was falsely accused? I don't see another link bewteen Michael and public corruption, at least not for the moment :?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 14, 2011, 03:04:48 AM
Quote from: "MJonmind"
MJ has obviously been planned on hoaxing his death for many years as shown in his videos and lyrics, incorporating complex numerology. ........
If MJ really was in the witness program I don't think there would be any clues left for people believe he is alive. It would be clean. There are obviously many deliberate clues laid out like a trail of crumbs.

I'm having a hard time with this. :?

We see them as clues. Others don't even think about them as clues. They think we are crazy.

I do believe there were people who wanted Michael DEAD. Who were they and what were there motives?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: curls on March 14, 2011, 03:34:54 AM
I need to give this FBI development/clue/hint from TS a huge amount of thought and consideration, as it's a theory I'll admit I've mostly bypassed up to now. Seeing this today has given me a strangely scary yet exciting feeling! Like a lot of loose ends might be about to be tied up in my brain!
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: SoldierofLOVE on March 14, 2011, 03:59:54 AM
Quote
Several people are generally on the right track, including this quoted comment here and the one before it {by MsTrinity333, viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=150#p312205 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=150#p312205)}. So I am now going to drop a huge clue. Actually, I thought someone would find this before now, especially with the timing clue that I gave when I posted the beginning of this thread (MsTrinity333  ).

Here is your big clue: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption)


Yes, Yes, Yes!  I've been waiting for this and I realize it's a very delicate matter.  
I even wrote similarly awhile back...
viewtopic.php?p=288688#p288688 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=288688#p288688)

Marlon didn't wear that FBI cap during the Jackson Dynasty show for nothing.  Somebody was being given a message, I've always said.

I'm glad that this has come up at the time it is obviously meant to be shared.  Timing is everything...


----------------------------------------------------------------------
And, from the FBI website:

When Crisis Strikes
New FBI Technology is Ready to Help

CHECK OUT THE ORION SYMBOL HERE, It kind of reminds me of MJ's 'blue-eye'  and we know who Orion is related to, right?
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2008/september/orion_092208


 
ORION allows the FBI and its partners to
coordinate crisis situations no matter how many
personnel are involved or where they are located.  

On the morning of October 3, 2002, four people were murdered outside the nation’s capital. It was the start of a shooting spree in the region that resulted in 10 deaths and sparked a massive hunt for the killers.

The so-called Beltway snipers were caught three weeks later, but the challenges posed by the case—multiple shootings in different locations, several investigative command centers in different jurisdictions, tens of thousands of phone and e-mail tips streaming in (so many that at one point they had to be collected in boxes and driven to the primary command center every four hours), and difficulty sharing information with our law enforcement partners at lightning speed—underscored the fact that our crisis management software systems needed an upgrade, especially in the post-9/11 era.

Now we have such a tool, a next-generation system built from the ground up by our investigators and technology experts. We call it ORION—the Operational Response and Investigative Online Network.

ORION gives the FBI and its partners a real-time, online network to quickly and effectively coordinate efforts in crisis situations, no matter how many law enforcement personnel are involved…where they might be located…or how big the case.

So if an investigation expands from New York to Chicago to Miami, agents in every city could log into ORION and have instant access to every scrap of information on the case, says Supervisory Special Agent Mike McCoy, an investigator on the sniper case who helped design the system.

ORION also has new automated features. When a phone tip is entered into the system, ORION can actively process that raw data and “push” leads and intelligence to investigators. For example, if a phone tip is received in the L.A. office about a person in Boston who could be a suspect in a nationwide terrorism case, that information is entered into ORION, reviewed in L.A., and instantly routed electronically to Boston agents for action.

ORION also performs automatic searching of new information entered into the system to locate potentially matching persons, locations, vehicles, events, and organizations.  These potential matches are shown to ORION users and help investigators “connect the dots” in a case where many FBI offices or law enforcement agencies are involved.

In addition to managing crisis events, ORION is designed for use at large, planned events such as the Super Bowl. In “watch mode,” ORION is capable of tracking potential threat information in its files such as names and vehicle identifications.

ORION is a classified system for Bureau use, but we’ve also designed an unclassified version for our law enforcement partners available through our secure Law Enforcement Online (LEO) network, so we can exchange information on FBI cases virtually instantaneously. State and local agencies can access ORION capabilities for their own critical cases.

ORION is managed by our Critical Incident Response Group, or CIRG, which responds at a moment’s notice to terrorist activities, hostage takings, child abductions, natural disasters and airplane crashes, and other high-risk crimes.

Since becoming operational, ORION has supported a number of investigations, including domestic terrorism and kidnapping cases. And it was used at both national political conventions this summer. Already, McCoy says, ORION is getting plenty of “real-world experience.” And making a difference.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MJhasSpoken on March 14, 2011, 04:07:23 AM
@Souza Thanks  :)

I don't get it. The leaves on the FBI logo were to do with the leaves on the ambo pic? So they weren't supposed to be a reflection?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: 2good2btrue on March 14, 2011, 04:10:06 AM
Neverland has been restructured. That’s the use of cement they delivered there.
- The ambulance picture (as I already told) actually is two pictures overlapped and photoshopped.
- Larry King is partially informed.
- Michael left clues everywhere, the truth is in front of us, but we are unable to see it…
- 757, 756, 755 is coming on the same date. They don’t refer to the comeback date.
- In the song “Another day” Michel is speaking to us, it is another big clue.
- Michael is worried about the fans’ reaction on his return, but he has to do it sooner or later.
- That helicopter is not real as it seems. It was never registered.
- The infamous van never arrived with a body in, later it turned back to be a simple van. You just saw it getting into the Coroner’s office underground garage. No van, no corpse. It’s all gone.
- Several interviews that are being released lately are false.
- Joe is challenging the will so that we all understand that the will is fake, actually, and the children’s custody was to be temporary.
- Michael’s demise is not connected with Sony.

Michael did not change religion. He did not convert to Islam.
Internet is the only communications medium to make us understand he is still alive.
This is it dancers are involved in the hoax. You should read their interviews and read their statements.
Michael is in a protection program, it is true. He also enjoys great freedom, though, and co-operates to work out the whole situation.Journalists shouldn’t go in for the hoax. The fewer rumors going round, the better…
Auditions are not rehearsals, but they were both included in TII.
From April to June Michael has been very busy… getting ready for a safe escape plan.
Michael sees at the circulating news, he tries to cope with all this mess at his best. He is giving us as many clues as possible.
Joe said that there were doubles in the movie. He was right, this was the umpteenth clue.
“This is not it”… they’re too sure of what they are claiming.
Each piece of news, each interview hides a message from Michael, a clue…
I’ve earned full trust from my source… we have mutual acquaintances, that’s why this person trusts me.
The children were not threatened.
For the user michaelforeverinmyhear: you NEEDN’T believe me, just believe in what you think is right, no obligation from my part.
The serious danger has gone, but everybody should be very careful, especially right now.

viewtopic.php?f=253&t=4446&hilit=+witness+protection (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=253&t=4446&hilit=+witness+protection)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 14, 2011, 04:18:25 AM
yes I remember this, it was someone who pretended to be an informer, BOW if I remember well. Other people said she was a fake. Is BOW still on that forum?
So many lies everywhere around.....it's hard to decide what to believe.
Back to the facts we have better than believe one person or another.
The FBI issue is somehow a logical conclusion that people reached without any help, only by putting things together and looking for answers.

Of course it still could be a freaking coincidence but yet, why FBI released those 333 pages, there had to be a reason......
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MJonmind on March 14, 2011, 04:38:38 AM
I remembered BoW and being disappointed about MJ not being Dave Dave (why I thought fake), but the rest of info seemed to work. Thanks to the ones posting past thinking on the FBI thing. I'm just wondering whose in charge? Is MJ using the FBI for his purposes, or is the FBI using MJ for their purposes? I guess everything has to be rethought thru this now verified HOW of the hoax. I think I'm going to sleep on it.

Quote
SoldierofLove
Marlon didn't wear that FBI cap during the Jackson Dynasty show for nothing. Somebody was being given a message, I've always said.
Do you have a pic? That's good to represent this new level we reached, as TS said.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: ForstAMoon on March 14, 2011, 04:41:14 AM
Quote from: "MJonmind"
I remembered BoW and being disappointed about MJ not being Dave Dave (why I thought fake), but the rest of info seemed to work. Thanks to the ones posting past thinking on the FBI thing. I'm just wondering whose in charge? Is MJ using the FBI for his purposes, or is the FBI using MJ for their purposes? I guess everything has to be rethought thru this now verified HOW of the hoax. I think I'm going to sleep on it.

Quote
SoldierofLove
Marlon didn't wear that FBI cap during the Jackson Dynasty show for nothing. Somebody was being given a message, I've always said.
Do you have a pic? That's good to represent this new level we reached, as TS said.

hey, you can find it here Marlon FBI cap picture thread (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=6456&start=0)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 14, 2011, 04:42:33 AM
Quote from: "MJonmind"
I guess everything has to be rethought thru this now verified HOW of the hoax.

You think it is verified?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: SoldierofLOVE on March 14, 2011, 04:56:31 AM

Thanks for that link again, 2good...  I'd forgotten about it. Here are some of the other postings from the Italian site.  I don't know what is what, but it sure gives you something to think about and connect the dots...


Quote
I am aware of many facts about the "death" of Michael Jackson a few months ago.
Obviously, as it is normal for the beginning I was very skeptical, I did not think I could trust that source, but slowly I began to realize that my source was telling the truth.
Beginning in December 2008 when a radio station launch the false news of the death of michael.... then readily denied by the singer himself..that was the beginning of the history, of the idea.
Michael had serious financial problems, which have brought him threats and now he had to do something to adjust everything.
So from January strange rumors began to flow about his health, Michael was unable to dance, sing and he was not good. He had skin cancer,he had a lung disease .... Far from the truth..
At the conference on 02 March in which he announced his shows ... THIS IS IT .... immediately after this, it has been revealed that Jackson would hold 50 concerts all at the 02 Arena in London.
.... the rehearsal, there would be no show .... it was all for THIS IS IT, all for the film, his gift for fans.
It's all for love, it's all for love, it also says the evidence, the documentary was for us.
And this was also said by Ortega on Twitter, it's only for fans.
The dancers are part of this plan, Ortega is part of this plan, many people help Michael.... even the press that is why we talk of the fake death only on the Internet, because the forum you can not control, but journalists have precise orders...they can not talk about this story.As I told you the reasons are very serious.
On June 25 we all know what happens but there are several background.
The call to 911 is false.
The photo on the stretcher is in fact real, but only the photo taken in the ambulance, Michael lying is another photo taken days before.
The photo was taken by a great friend of Michael, who had known him from 10 years.
The ambulance is false, Michael arrives at the hospital but then he released it alive and well, with the alarm Fire…the body in the helicopter is a body of UCLA; the university where you give to them the bodies for Research is involved in this story, but it don’t want to know much…the announcement of death was only given by Jermaine…The certificate of death is fake.
The coroner has never left official statements (there is no body).
Murray is involved but temporarily.
Many people in addition to the family and close friends have helped Michael to do everything.
At Forest Lawn, there is no grave.
The memorial and funeral have been organized by Michael.
Michael is now in LA.
Deathoax site was created for this and This is also it too.
Michael is back in LA for the children several times, but without attracting attention.
The whole truth will be best explained by himself and I hope that together we will discover when.
A return is expected, but it's Michael has to choose when..
I thank the moderators for letting me open this post, then we can explore together..
Thanks


 
       
 
 
   
 
 Fragolina Velenosa  Posted on 8/1/2010, 18:11  
 

 Mantenetevi Folli E Comportatevi Da Persone Normali...


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 From 12/15/09 to 12/20/09, 11:42 p.m. - user BlackorWhite

Translation by JustAnotherPartOfMe


-Michael visits his children on proper festivities. He will be with them for Christmas;

-At 02 Arena Michael was there. That was not an impersonator. But he was willing to raise “the attention of fans” and to be noticed (out of his difference! – editor’s note);

-Michael uses to check on the web with the help of his family and Hoax site;

-Michael might be back in 2010, maybe June, but any time may be good! Before his comeback Michael has to fix several things;

-The will is FAKE. It is a manoeuvre to protect the children during these months;

-MICHAEL IS OK, he is fine!

-He went to 02 Arena with his children. Navi was with him, but it was Michael who spoke to the fans;

-At Culver Studios there was a double, chosen by Michael, Kenny and Randy;

-The double draw much attention for TII Movie, purposedly;

-Culver Studios project had to be kept secret.

-BlackorWhite has been informed by her source in detail.

-Dave Dave at LKL was not Michael Jackson, but he was made-up in such a way as to be mistaken for Michael.

-People involved in the hoax are not so many, of course. They have promised to keep silent for a certain period of time.

-Karen Faye (Michael’s make-up artist) is Michael’s friend, unlike it may seem right now…she is playing a specific role throwing media off the track.

-She confirms that LA airport was partly closed on June 25th.

-There were doubles in TII (although only every now and then).

-Michael was not at the Memorial

-On Sept. 3rd, Michael was in LA, not at Forrest Lawn.

-The original Death Hoax site is cancelled, since members remarked that domain had been registered on June 1st and many people started to wonder why. It was allegedly sold, but it is run by the same admins, actually. It now redirects to Souza’s site.

-Many users on DH site are informed but do not post. TIAI is run by the same staff as DH. They work for Michael. Ortega is willing to help us, too.

-BlackorWhite was suggested to watch LAPD investigations.

-Dome Project was meant to be kept secret: we only saw short footage in the movie. There are seven videos:
Thriller
Earth Song
They don’t care about us
Ghosts
Mj air
Final message (heal the world)
Smooth criminal was in the movie (Gilda)
We saw Thriller only in short scenes
Ghosts in a new (awesome) version

-These videos are complete, they’re not unfinished at all and they will be released, they were completed after June 25th

-They used the same cameras at the funeral; all was directed by Kenny Ortega.

-The golden casket at Forrest Lawn is not the same as the one at the memorial

-There were two different caskets.

-No tomb is at the mausoleum, that is just a cover-up. This is why it is a “nameless grave”. No security staff, actually.

-No family member ever went to the mausoleum, not a single dry flower...

-Michael is supported by trustworthy friends and family.

-The funeral has been arranged in such a way as to look real. Many were there because they had gone to a funeral, others because they had promised Michael to be there.

-JCC and Applehead are VERY close to Michael.

-FL grave is empty.

-The children were aware of the truth since the beginning. Blanket was told that his father is on vacation.

-Paris didn’t cry at the Memorial … there were no tears, Janet covered hid her face in time. She would do anything for her dad.

-Hoax sites are supposed to give us clues to understand that Michael is alive, but also to spur our investigations to get to the truth.

 :arrow:  :arrow: -FBI is controlling the site. Some things cannot be posted.

-Michael never got on the coroner’s van. The making-of video shot by RTL German TV is a meaningful video explaining how to COUNTERFAIT a Coroner’s van.

 :idea:  :idea:  :arrow:  :arrow: -Hoax site posts many clues, that actually are diversionary manoeuvres to make us investigate and keep us far from the truth but, she repeats, only A FEW OF THEM are fake.

 :arrow:  :idea:  :!:  :arrow: -TIAI is a well-framed guide for us.

-Michael has planned the whole hoax because of his debts, now settled, but also out of severe threats; BlackorWhite reports she cannot speak about this.

 :!: -Of course, the tribute had to be cancelled because it referred to his death: that would have been a fraud, since Michael is alive. It was cancelled twice. Michael doesn’t want to deceit his fans.

-Doubles were used in a few scenes of TII. Michael was busy, working at the Dome Project. Ortega directed doubles, he knew what to do.

-Michael wore the red shirt (the one with three 7). He wore a black tee-shirt, maybe you noticed that when dancing Billie Jean he only changed his shirt, keeping the black tee-shirt and the same trousers.
Don’t be mislead: Michael did not have so many hours of rehearsals at the Staple centre.

-Cassandra is a fake. She said Michael would be back in June, but June 25th will be important for something different.

-Now Michael is in LA with his children.

-Michael is not depressed: he is fine.

-The final part was recorded and prepared for the memorial.

-The pains instead of pain was changed on purpose: Will you be there is dedicated to the fans.

-Michael has arranged everything for the memorial: from the colour of flowers, to Latoya jewels…

-The infamous Hatman at the memorial is in Michael’s staff. You probably noticed a similar person at the funeral, with a bit darker complexion. That person spread confusion, the idea of him came from the memorial footage.

-BlackorWhite says that Michael will be back and news will be disclosed about the children in January.

 :idea:  :arrow:  :arrow: -Michael had bought paintings by De La Nuez on purpose, to stir attention.

-BlackorWhite denies Michael’s diary being found and says Clontz and Cassandra are fake.

-The day of karate lesson a great mess was about to happen: Mike had been said that no paparazzi would be there, but unfortunately someone spilled the beans. Michael wanted to spend some time with the children and relax, being sure that the press wasn’t supposed to be there… instead…. Let’s say that he is still surrounded by money-hungry people.

-FBI files are to be released soon, related to 1993 and 2004 child molestation cases, as well as to any case Michael Jackson was the victim of, including threats and extortions. Nothing about dr. Murray or Michael’s death will be included in the files.

-Mike’s hoaxed death is not a fraud, he won’t be prosecuted on his return.

-The news reporting suicidal fans is fake.

-L.O.V.E. refers to Michael, TOY doesn’t.

-Mike is willing to return, but he needs our support and our love.

-In the video of children’s karate lesson Michael is there, not under the white umbrella.

-BlackorWhite found a way to give Michael our happy Christmas wishes.

 :idea:  :!:  :D -The number of hoax-death forums is increasing in the last few months, Michael is unlikely to read everything on the web. On the original MJHD site he was a registered user, he read much and wrote little, very little.

-Mark Jackson is the webmaster of LA Country Coroner and works at the Coroner’s website.

-Getty Images took pictures at the Staples Memorial –  :!:  :!: Jackson owns the Getty agency, incorporated of AEG agency-

 :!:  :!:  :arrow:  :arrow: -Jackson invests in AP agency, a press agency, that works for newspapers and media.

-Jackson is in control of the news being released. Jackson is in control of the Coroner, too. This is why the Coroner’s chief refuses to sign death certificate, because the body did not match with M. Jackson’s medical files.

-BlackorWhite has posted pictures of real Michael and others of the double, who is very much alike for body build, dancing and voice.

-The impersonator has been selected very accurately, by Michael himself, Randy Phillips and Kenny Ortega.They couldn’t take the risk of choosing somebody who could be recognized as a double. They were looking for someone looking perfectly like Michael.Navi was asked to, but he refused the offer.

-BlackorWhite says she never spoke to Michael, but repeats that her source is very close to him.

Edited by Fragolina Velenosa - 9/1/2010, 14:29

 
       
 
 
   
 
 Fragolina Velenosa  Posted on 8/1/2010, 22:13  
 

 Mantenetevi Folli E Comportatevi Da Persone Normali...


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 from 12/20/09, 11:42 p.m. to 12/21/09, 9:47 p.m. - user BlackorWhite

- http://www.youtube.com/v/NfR7TTeMSDQ&hl=it_IT&fs=1& (http://www.youtube.com/v/NfR7TTeMSDQ&hl=it_IT&fs=1&) from 1:36 there is Michael. At the beginning with human nature is Michael too. But the guy with that gold jacket is a double.

-it is not playback. That is the boy's voice. The same voice, the same look, the same body..it is impossible to think that he is a double..this was the purpose.

-UCLA has refused to sign a certificate of death because the body was not Michael's body, but it was a body donated to research.Michael attended UCLA for years.
Autopsies have never been there.Earth Song is important for Michael .... we need to improve the our planet.

-when the investigations will terminate, this story will terminate.

-This is not it was created by fans that wanted fame.It is not absolutely true!Michael.Michael was and is absolutely fine!Ortega didn't help him to eat and he could very well walk alone!

-in most of the scenes in this is it you saw Michael as a protagonist.
At staples he rehearsed a couple of days,23 and 24 June .... these are the days used to create the documentary.
It is for this reason that Michael always wears the same clothes and the only thing that he changes is the shirt.

-the day of the road accident was the same day in which the children and Michael were in front of the gym (after the lesson of karate).

-Michael and Kenny chose the scenes together.

******************************************************************

Question: Mike was with the children on the day of the accident ... Kenny on his twitter what would meant? he just wanted to reassure us fans?

Answer: that day the plan was to fail....Michael were there...
Kenny wanted to reassure the fans,he likes to twitt..

*****************************************************************

-The 911 call was recorded weeks before.Pieces of that call have been put together.
That day there was a call, not published, of Alvarez, to demonstrate to the tabs that there was a call.

-Jermaine during the memorial was wearing earphones to talk with bodyguards and other people that helped the family.

-The will served to give to the children a trustee..Kathrine

-Michael arrived alive at the hospital and he left it alive.

-In the picture of Michael's arrive at the hospital..the situation was delicate, and certainly he could not sit up on the stretcher with all the paparazzi that were ready to take pictures.

 
       
 
 
   
 
 Fragolina Velenosa  Posted on 9/1/2010, 15:53  
 

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 from 12/21/2009, 9:56 p.m. to 12/22/2009, 10:55 p.m. - user BlackorWhite

-Michael arrived at the hospital by ambulance,the fire alarm tripped and he escaped to the vaults;There was a car waiting to go to the airport (in an area kept close for 2 hours;

-the phrase "always great sing with my brother/s" of the cd is referred to the brothers;"make believe" (in the cd too) is a new slogan of Sony;

 :arrow: -LAPD and FBI are investigating...Murray is a story for astray;it takes time and Michael has a few things to solve; do not worry about that when he will return, the problem will be solved;

-Michael has not moved much.With the help of various organizations he could travel.A part of the airport has been closed for him.But then he remained in a fixed place when the situation was calm.Now I can tell you that he is in LA.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MJonmind on March 14, 2011, 05:05:36 AM
So how does the FBI fit with this?
Quote
by TS » Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:30 am

TIAI Revealed, Part 9: Today is 12-21-2009 (R49)

In this final part, we are going to be examining once again the “2012” film—especially as it relates to the concept of the end of the world on 12-21-2012, which is exactly three years from today. The “2012” movie story starts in the year 2009, and ends in 2012.

The “four years” that MJ mentioned in TII started in the spring of 2009 (when the “This Is It” concerts were in the planning stages); so we have already gone through the first year. You could also think of the four years as ending on 9-9-09, 10-10-10, 11-11-11, and 12-12-12 (ten day countdown to 12-21-12). Of course these are a little more than a year apart; but they are interesting numerology milestones in the four year process.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
“Can Ye Not Discern the Signs of the Times?”

Jesus said: “… ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?” (Matthew 16:3). Jesus also said: “… when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh [near], even at the doors. … Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.” (Mark 13:29-32).

So we don’t know the exact day or hour of the end of the world—maybe not even the exact year. But if we can “discern the signs of the times”, we should be able to know when it is near! The exact date of 12-21-2012 for the end of the world is fiction; it could happen on that date, but unlikely. However the end of the world being near is a very real concept, and not merely fiction. So let’s look at some of the “signs of the times”, which show that the end is near.

Speaking of fleeing at the end of time, Jesus said: “But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.” (Matthew 24:20,21). Did you know that 12-21-2012 will be the first day of winter (northern hemisphere)? And did you know that 12-21-2012 will be a Friday? And did you know that in the Bible, the Sabbath day begins at sunset on Friday?? Is it a coincidence, that both of the things which Jesus mentioned (winter and Sabbath) will begin on the same day that the Mayan calendar ends?

Again, this does not necessarily mean that the world will end on 12-21-2012; in fact, Jesus asked us to pray that we would not have to flee on that day. Nevertheless, the fact that all these things line up on the same day is almost certainly a clue (sign) that the end is near.

The NWO is another huge sign that the end is near. It was prophesied nearly 2,000 years ago in the book of Revelation; read the whole book, especially the last half—and most particularly Revelation chapters 17 & 18. Here are a couple verses: “These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them:” (17:13,14).

Also very well known, from the book of Revelation, is 666 and the mark of the beast (see Revelation 13 & 14). The mark is related to finances: “And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark …” (13:17).

Surely you know that USA has the largest economy in the world. But did you know that S&P 500 (not Dow) is “the most reliable measure of the broader market” {http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=7468215}? And did you know that the S&P 500 hit a low of 666 this year on 3-6-09 {http://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story.asp?StoryId=%7bD2687B35-8BC2-4AA9-A2D4-A004E3E15AF1%7d}; even the date is similar to 666 (subtract 3 from the last digit, and add it to the first digit). This was the bottom point in the worst US recession since the great depression; and in fact many people were calling it the verge of financial “Armageddon” (another end-of-the-world term from Revelation). What does this mean? Surely, it is another sign that the end is near.

Daniel 12:4 says that in “… the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.” Do we see that today? Travel on a major scale, the likes of which has never existed before in human history. And also there is increasing knowledge in many areas, never before known to man. In fact the internet, a major source of knowledge, has only come into normal household use in the last decade or two. Furthermore, the speed that we can now share information on the internet (through videos, pictures, etc) is something that we couldn’t do just a few years ago.

Another sign of the end is many natural disasters (see Matthew 24:7; Mark 13;8; Luke 21:11; etc). Did you know that earthquakes (along with other disasters) are on the increase? {http://earthquake.usgs.gov/}

As mentioned already (see R47), the Ark of the Covenant plays a major role near the end of time. Again, stayed tuned to TIAI for more info on the Ark; this will certainly happen well before 12-21-2012.

And what about the Mayan calendar ending on 12-21-2012, should we entirely dismiss this? Again, maybe nothing will happen on that exact day—perhaps not even in that year; but especially in light of all the other signs, it is pretty evident that the Mayans did not miss the end of the world by centuries, or even decades. Sometimes I think that the ancient civilizations had more true wisdom than modern man, with all his boasted technology and science.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
“The Son of Man Cometh at an Hour When Ye Think Not.”

“Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.” (Luke 12:40; see 12:46; Matthew 24:50). “… the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.” (1 Thessalonians 5:2,3; see Luke 17:26-30).

Different people have different concepts—even within Christianity—about the end of the world: when it will happen, how it will happen, etc. And other religions also have their concepts of the end of time. But most people in most religions are realizing that the world is on the verge of some major change; that is just too obvious to hide.

And for those who think that there will be at least seven more years before the end, be careful. Maybe there will be, but maybe not. Remember that the Jews—even Christ’s own disciples—thought that prophecy was yet to be fulfilled, before the Messiah would come; and yet the prophecy had already been fulfilled, and they didn’t recognize it (see Malachi 4:5; Matthew 17:10-13; etc).

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
“There Shall Come in the Last Days Scoffers”

“Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.” (2 Peter 3:3,4; see 3:5,6).

Scoffing is another major sign that the end is near. Just because there have been false alarms in the past, doesn’t mean that the real thing will never come. So don’t be too quick to join in with the scoffing attitude.

And don’t be over confident in what the media or scientists tell you (that it’s not the end of the world); often scientists are right, but they have also been wrong at times (see 1 Timothy 6:20).

Scientists were wrong in the days of Noah; they told everyone not to worry about any flood, because it had never rained before and “all things [would] continue as they were from the beginning of the creation” (see Genesis 2:5; 2 Peter 3:3-6). So of all the people in the antediluvian world: only eight refused to believe the scientists, and decided to get into the ark of safety.

Do you think that the flood is just a myth? Jesus took it literally, and used it as an example of how people would be at the end of the world: “And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.” (see Matthew 24:37-39; Hebrews 11:7; 1 Peter 3:20; 2 Peter 2:5; etc). Again, stay tuned to TIAI: and soon you will see abundant evidence that the flood of Noah literally happened—similar to the final scenes in the “2012” movie.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
This Is REALLY It!

The end of the world is near: whether you want it or not, whether you believe it or not, whether you’re ready or not—the end of the world is coming, soon and very soon! This is big; this is huge; this is colossal; in fact, it really doesn’t get any bigger than this!!! And once again, from the London press conference {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1znYaU0oeo&feature=PlayList&p=4337629E8ED55A02&index=4}: “This is it, I mean this is REALLY it; this is the final — this is the FINAL curtain call.”
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: curls on March 14, 2011, 05:36:16 AM
Quote from: "curls"
I need to give this FBI development/clue/hint from TS a huge amount of thought and consideration, as it's a theory I'll admit I've mostly bypassed up to now. Seeing this today has given me a strangely scary yet exciting feeling! Like a lot of loose ends might be about to be tied up in my brain!

I take back my comment above about loose ends! Here I am a couple of hours later with more questions than answers!

Biggest question: who's working for who? MJ for FBI or FBI for MJ?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: SoldierofLOVE on March 14, 2011, 06:12:34 AM
Quote from: "curls"
Quote from: "curls"
I need to give this FBI development/clue/hint from TS a huge amount of thought and consideration, as it's a theory I'll admit I've mostly bypassed up to now. Seeing this today has given me a strangely scary yet exciting feeling! Like a lot of loose ends might be about to be tied up in my brain!

I take back my comment above about loose ends! Here I am a couple of hours later with more questions than answers!

Biggest question: who's working for who? MJ for FBI or FBI for MJ?
[/b]

Does it have to be either/or?  It could be both/and.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: 2good2btrue on March 14, 2011, 06:57:05 AM

Also, is it possible that MJ has been working undercover to expose all the Dr Feelgoods??

That's why he went Dr shopping and has so many different drugs in alias names?  That is a criminal offense to forge a pescription..Elvis did the same thing by working with the DEA..(drug enforcement agency) Remember MJ meeting with Elvis?  He said Elvis told him straight out..."Don't do drugs"  Seems like all the pieces are coming together now..



[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEjjKIRv4yQ[/youtube]
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: curls on March 14, 2011, 07:03:46 AM
Quote from: "SoldierofLOVE"
Quote from: "curls"

Biggest question: who's working for who? MJ for FBI or FBI for MJ?
[/b]

Does it have to be either/or?  It could be both/and.

True, you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours.

Ok, my next question: why is TS pointing out an FBI link? Wouldn't that be hush, hush?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Sarahli on March 14, 2011, 07:24:41 AM
The 333 pages are not a coincidence so there must be some key persons at the FBI involved and that's why people don't talk. TS redirected to a specific page http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption (http://www.fbi.gov/) ... certainly a clue as well.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 14, 2011, 07:38:38 AM
Reading BOW again wasn't good, now I feel confused again.
I wish we'd follow a logical line, not being thrown off to one direction or another.
BOW also pointed to the FBI files and to a dead body that was used instead of Michael.

She also said (maybe not so) surprising things about this site. Talking about the ghosts in the walls :shock: who maybe are the result of too much fantasy IDK.....
From my own experience I know that when a person is very confident and free to take any decisions he/she wants, in spite of everything and everyone, that person has a very strong support from a source that stays in the shadow and dictates....... those who have eyes to see, ears to hear and the usual common-sense will know what I mean.

As about the end being near, when I saw what happened in Japan, those images that seemed to be taken from 2012 the movie, I was thinking that maybe we are near.....
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: SoldierofLOVE on March 14, 2011, 07:47:56 AM
Quote from: "2good2btrue"

Also, is it possible that MJ has been working undercover to expose all the Dr Feelgoods??

That's why he went Dr shopping and has so many different drugs in alias names?  That is a criminal offense to forge a pescription..Elvis did the same thing by working with the DEA..(drug enforcement agency) Remember MJ meeting with Elvis?  He said Elvis told him straight out..."Don't do drugs"  Seems like all the pieces are coming together now..



Yes.  This is what I've believed for quite some time too.  Could be other undercover work as well - maybe involving trafficking of children... And, who knows, perhaps Elvis and MJ paid for the FBI high-technology system, Orion.

@curls:  good questions you ask.   But if we look at Elvis as a road map, his FBI activities became known to the public at some point... idk. perhaps it must be said to allow MJ's return and have it accepted by the public?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: suspicious mind on March 14, 2011, 08:00:57 AM
i am still wondering if and how the peter lopez thing plays into all of this.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: SoldierofLOVE on March 14, 2011, 08:02:09 AM
Quote from: "MJhasSpoken"
@Souza Thanks  :)

I don't get it. The leaves on the FBI logo were to do with the leaves on the ambo pic? So they weren't supposed to be a reflection?



@suspicious mind:  oh, yes!  good point. peter lopez...

@MJhasSpoken:
Could it be the reflection from a badge being worn by the medics or even MJ that looks like this:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2268/2172837721_fa50e0e4c4_z.jpg)

or these?:
(http://i25.tinypic.com/15clvz4.jpg)

(http://degreesearch.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/DEA-badge-YD.jpg)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: VeryLittleSusie on March 14, 2011, 08:48:57 AM
My unanswered questions are:

1. Is Michael an secret agent himself?
2. Is the hoax/witness protection program going to expose the corruption during 1993/2005 case and trial?
3. If this is meant to expose the illuminati, and as we know, they rule the world, then who from the officials wants to expose them?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: curls on March 14, 2011, 09:05:52 AM
Quote from: VeryLittleSusie
My unanswered questions are:

1. Is Michael an secret agent himself?


That'd be 'Agent M', right?!  <!-- s:lol: -->:lol:<!-- s:lol: -->
[YouTube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6HGUNt6_hk[/YouTube]
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: AnaMarcia on March 14, 2011, 09:14:04 AM
Public corruption has everything to do with the charges in 2005.
Corruption in the judiciary is very serious and we see often in movies. If the FBI wants to stop this, nothing better than to join Michael to learn how this whole mess. I think I read somewhere about some lawsuits against Tom Sneddon but not sure.
My theory for the hoax was always protective of the FBI, which explains why even the false trial of Murray.
Regarding BOW I believed  many times, because some information made sense, but now things are much stops at that forum.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MissG on March 14, 2011, 09:26:21 AM
@It´s her,
I understand your theory regarding the "fake" 2005 trial. Myself had that thought as well last year or earlier. MJ recreating the same scenario to prove legally that he was innocent and part of a scam when Chandler´s father accused him of child molestation, as it happened with the Arvizos; same goal-->$$ & destroy reputation.

I believe the trial was real, but I have my doubts if the characters were acting to some point. However, Michael had a fair trial as any American person is entitled to and was proclaimed innocent from all charges.
This was the real proof that MJ was always innocent, aquitted by a jury.
The tale of "MJ paid his innocence with Chandler´s case" was supossed to be burried forever, but still, some people, after the years, is not believing in Michael´s innocence and this I believe has been a big part for Michael to create his hoax death among other scenarios. To clean his name is very important, is the esscence to lave a clean legacy to his children.

@TS_comments,
I am a bit confused with the way you are ponting towards MJ hoaxing for a witness protection program. I read some of your updates and I understood that you wrote that there is no room for the witness protection program theory.

@Souza,
bay leaves have many symbolic interpretations during history. It could also point towards those symbolisms, but, how do we know that the "leaf pattern" being discussed are bay leaves on the 1st place?

@all,
The only conection I see between some police department and MJ are:
-LaToya: She is a police in Indiana.
-Murray: For some reason I think that he is more than a doctor.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Andrea on March 14, 2011, 09:31:39 AM
Quote from: "2good2btrue"

Also, is it possible that MJ has been working undercover to expose all the Dr Feelgoods??

That's why he went Dr shopping and has so many different drugs in alias names? That is a criminal offense to forge a pescription..Elvis did the same thing by working with the DEA..(drug enforcement agency) Remember MJ meeting with Elvis? He said Elvis told him straight out..."Don't do drugs" Seems like all the pieces are coming together now..


Speaking of Elvis...Michael has 333 pages on his FBI file, Elvis has 663, or 330 more pages, many of which are dated after August 1977.

http://www.fbi.gov/foia/electronic-read ... is-presley (http://www.fbi.gov/foia/electronic-reading-room/elvis-presley)

Elvis was pronounced dead at 2:56 p.m., 30 minutes after Michael was.  TS stressed the number thirty in TIAI Update 6.5.  I just find that strange...
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MissG on March 14, 2011, 09:33:45 AM
Quote from: "2good2btrue"

Also, is it possible that MJ has been working undercover to expose all the Dr Feelgoods??

That's why he went Dr shopping and has so many different drugs in alias names?


I remember having the same opnion in one of the updates!! To uncover the Hollywood dealers with a license!
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: navibl on March 14, 2011, 09:57:15 AM
Quote from: "MJonmind"
That is interesting! That would explain why TS would focus on that seeming small detail of the leaves.

I just have some questions about all this. Anybody who has watched National Treasure or been on any conspiracy sites will know the whole foundation of the government of US, the National Reserve and powers running it, the CIA and relationship to Israel etc. is not necessarily benevolent.  How could the FBI be somehow separate from this agenda of TPTB or Illuminati whatever, and the real good guys.

MJ has obviously been planned on hoaxing his death for many years as shown in his videos and lyrics, incorporating complex numerology. How could that now be passed over to the FBI as their creative genius. Or did MJ just offer his services to them and use them for his purposes without them knowing.

I still think if MJ was in real danger that his 3 children would also be in danger, yet they appear out in public and have appeared happy and okay with this situation.

If MJ really was in the witness program I don't think there would be any clues left for people believe he is alive. It would be clean. There are obviously many deliberate clues laid out like a trail of crumbs.

I'm having a hard time with this. :?

My thoughts on this is that possibly Michael has over the years developed a relationship with EX-FBI and other officials that were in the know of the corruption in the system its self.  And maybe with their knowledge and inside ties, they could help Michael around all of the legalities, and to know how to officially pull this off.

It is kind of like in the last few years NASA ex officials and others in Gov.  are coming out making statements of Extra Terrestrial contact that the Gov continues to cover up.
There are a lot of people that use to be on the inside that have left due to the corruption, but they still know their way around and how things work.  I don’t think Michael’s goal is to bring anyone to justice, only to expose, so that we know who the real enemies are.  Remember the bible says that even Satan can do things to appear as Jesus Christ…working great miracles and appearing as an Angel of light.
We need to know who these people are.  All that is done in darkness will be brought to Light.

With this in mind, it would tie in with the “TIAI Revealed” layout that gives insight on Michael’s understanding of the end of the age or end times and the changes the earth is about to go through.  I don’t think current powers in place have understanding or give a care about putting on the whole Armor of God and getting through what is coming.  Also since the world is about to go through major changes I don’t think Michael’ s focus is on getting revenge or seeing justice played out because there is not enough time. I think a group of people wanted Michael gone, and some feared his influence on the world because it didn't fit their agenda.  It was made to appear more like a money thing which a lot was, but more about numbers and power, remember there is power in numbers.  And with Michael's massive influence, once he exposed these people ...well you can imagine how that would be.

I am sure as much as Michael studied the bible he knows that vengeance is the Lords and very soon they will get theirs if their hearts are not changed.  He could have gone after Sneddon a long time ago if he chose to, but that was not his focus and never has been.
I believe there are people that work within these agencies that continue to stay in order to bring truth to the outside in some way.  They want the corruption on the inside to be exposed to unsuspecting people that think the FBI and others, are for the good everywhere…….Just MHO
LOVE WILL CHANGE THE WORLD
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: paula-c on March 14, 2011, 10:05:00 AM
Obviously i do not much of the program for the protection of witnesses in the United States, so little that i was, to the person is assigned a new identity, also could be to some of the family, if Michael is in such a program that does not block with " the return "
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: RK on March 14, 2011, 11:09:54 AM
Wow TS. We really did need to go back to the start. A lot of info from way back  had been left on the back burner and I did more than let it simmer, I let it boil dry. Today, I am wondering about evan chandler and why he suddenly felt compelled to blow his brains out after all that time of living the high life on MJ's money, or was he silenced by others?  Something is way up with that .  It is times like these, I am thankful of the archives of this site. I'm off to dig around in the past posts about malnic and the likes.  :shock:
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Sarahli on March 14, 2011, 11:12:34 AM
Well maybe that not the whole FBI agency is in on it, we often talked about key people in key places and when we think about the reasons for the hoax I hardly can imagine that the whole FBI is involved. Certainly a few good guys working there.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: VeryLittleSusie on March 14, 2011, 12:13:24 PM
Quote from: "RK"
Wow TS. We really did need to go back to the start. A lot of info from way back  had been left on the back burner and I did more than let it simmer, I let it boil dry. Today, I am wondering about evan chandler and why he suddenly felt compelled to blow his brains out after all that time of living the high life on MJ's money, or was he silenced by others?  Something is way up with that .  It is times like these, I am thankful of the archives of this site. I'm off to dig around in the past posts about malnic and the likes.  :shock:


Maybe Chandler is also in a witness protection program and is helping MJ or FBI? People do change, you know....  :?

No, this is too far fetched.... *scratches her head*  :|

However, this date "Remember, remember the 5'th of November" when Chandler died was too much of a coincidence... It might have been deliberately chosen for his "disappearance" from this earth....
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: VeryLittleSusie on March 14, 2011, 12:16:33 PM
Quote from: "Gema"
Quote from: "2good2btrue"

Also, is it possible that MJ has been working undercover to expose all the Dr Feelgoods??

That's why he went Dr shopping and has so many different drugs in alias names?


I remember having the same opnion in one of the updates!! To uncover the Hollywood dealers with a license!

Yep! A secret agent! I told ya!  :o
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: mdc on March 14, 2011, 12:22:55 PM
Quote from: "suspicious mind"
i am still wondering if and how the peter lopez thing plays into all of this.

Interesting that you mention Peter Lopez. I was just wondering the same thing last night. I still find it weird he died on the same day (April 30) that Michael was indicted and plead not guilty in 2004 for the molestation case. Same goes for Evan Chandler's November 5th suicide. Interesting they both died in the same way on significant dates.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MsTrinity333 on March 14, 2011, 01:13:53 PM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Quote from: "ignisaeternus"
I agree with most of It'sHer's theorie, re actor paramedics, staged 911 calls etc. With the addition of low enforcement involvement on some level. It is really the only thing explaining why the real ambulance 71 crew has not spoken up. Also, it ties in to the previously addressed code 71- meaning approved absence. If nothing was random, than the choice of # of ambulance was not, either.
Also, if there was no real 911 call, and there is no law enforcement involvement, I think actual authorites would have come forward.  You can't pay off everyone.  And- there are bigger lures than short-term gain. Meaning, notoriety for exposing the hoax.

To me, some degree of witness protection, similar program, or law enforcement involvement (remember, the chief of la police resigned shortly after June 09- at least I think that's who it was, or other high up police official) is the ONE thing that ties together the non-matching photos, the different version 911 calls, the real paramedics vs actors issue, and impunity.  I always believed there was a threat to Michael's life- as did he according to several people.  Maybe, he finally got the attention he deserved and things tied into his long-term plans.
It also helps explain changes in BAM timeline as well as trail date changes- if things are not purely up to Michael.

Several people are generally on the right track, including this quoted comment here and the one before it {by MsTrinity333, http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=150#p312205}.  So I am now going to drop a huge clue.  Actually, I thought someone would find this before now, especially with the timing clue that I gave when I posted the beginning of this thread (MsTrinity333   :o ).

Here is your big clue: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption

 :shock:  :shock:  :shock:
OMG... I'm humbled by your response TS.  You have been and will be in my prayers. God Bless You.

I have to snicker about you underlining the 333 part of my name.  :lol: That's all God; not me.  MsTrinity333 is my YT user name.  Anyone who checks my channel will see it was picked before the FBI report was released; almost THREE mos prior...  :lol: And before I beLIEved in the hoax. Got to love God's sense of humor at times. Three is my number, always has been...I was born in March. Happy Birthday to me! 8-) And what could be better than 3 three's when you're a Celt & Trinity is your name?   :D I'm well aware of the Biblical ties too.

I'm so glad Im_convincedmjalive reposted one of your earlier updates.

I just saw that last night, my eyes hurt from reading it on my iphone while watching Tina Turner last night!  That confirmed to me we are on the right track and reminded us of some important information we may have forgotten...
Why would a dummy need a hot room?  & Jermain's slip up about the airport...?

For anyone interested here's kitty's channel where she and her friend had their conversations concerning their investigations. http://www.youtube.com/user/kittycat10100 I'm not sure if they are still posted but will ask her.

I had to laugh at someone mentioning Monster...
There are no coincidences:
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=191&t=17071

2010 Thriller.  ;) <3
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MJhunny on March 14, 2011, 01:18:27 PM
Quote from: "paula-c"
Quote
MJhunny wrote:
imo on "THAT" day (not the other day mind you), real 911 call, real ambulance ,real paramedics, real patient just not MJ, but sick (dead??? remember the heating reported as set too high in the room being summer and all; trying to hide time of death???) and old looking, def not recognizable as our man, and our paramedics testified to this under oath in a real court of law. Problems; why no word from these paramedics as to why we CAN recognize MJ in the ambo pic? Imagine this all actually did go down as reported on june 25 2009, thats the thing that keeps me wondering ,how in hell did the paramedics NOT recognize MJ while we can on that pic ?? I suck at all things technical , but is there any evidence that MJ is shopped into that pic at all? Because that could be an agreement between Bens agency and the paramedics and their station/boss that it was to portray MJ in the pic in the best possible way, to give him his dignity and not go out looking like a old ,bald hospice patient.Maybe thats why no paramedics say anything bout the pic, if not bound by law, just maybe out of respect for their patient , who they actually believed to be MJ.



with this we must conclude that MJ knew it was going to die on June 25, 2009 at a certain time?, so Ben was that day at home waiting for the "fatal outcome", I do not think so ;)


nope i meant MJ could have pulled the wool over Benjamins eyes too.  :D
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MJhunny on March 14, 2011, 01:20:27 PM
Quote from: Its her
Quote from: MJhunny
imo on "THAT" day (not the other day mind you), real 911 call, real ambulance ,real paramedics, real patient just not MJ, but sick (dead??? remember the heating reported as set too high in the room being summer and all; trying to hide time of death???) and old looking, def not recognizable as our man, and our paramedics testified to this under oath in a real court of law. Problems; why no word from these paramedics as to why we CAN recognize MJ in the ambo pic? Imagine this all actually did go down as reported on june 25 2009, thats the thing that keeps me wondering ,how in hell did the paramedics NOT recognize MJ while we can on that pic ?? I suck at all things technical , but is there any evidence that MJ is shopped into that pic at all?

Because that could be an agreement between Bens agency and the paramedics and their station/boss that it was to portray MJ in the pic in the best possible way, to give him his dignity and not go out looking like a old ,bald hospice patient.

Maybe thats why no paramedics say anything bout the pic, if not bound by law, just maybe out of respect for their patient , who they actually believed to be MJ

Hi MJhunny,

I just wanted to tell you that, the words I have enlarged, your words, express the purest,  kindest, most naturally sincere sentiment, in applying a motive to others, that I have heard here in MONTHs.

It blessed and caught me way off guard, to find that someone would apply kindness and consideration; a little HUMANITY,  <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> to the same pix and the players involved with it, which all of us have been focused on technically, mechanically dissecting, pretty much...

Man <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: -->  I can't tell you how sweet that is.

You thought of it, because it is what YOU would do. You must be very sweet. Bless you for sharing that Love!!  <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->  <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->  <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->

I would absolutely do this for MJ or anyone else for that matter.  <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: finfin on March 14, 2011, 01:47:39 PM
Do you remember this on the 3rd September 2010, one year after the burial?
 No coincidence
See post

viewtopic.php?f=135&t=13924 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=135&t=13924)
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/se ... eral-scams (http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/september/funeral-scams/financial-fraud-and-funeral-scams)

(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/fbi.jpg)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Soosie Woosie on March 14, 2011, 02:11:20 PM
Please don't bash me, cos I don't post often at all, though I read sooo much on here.

I've been reading this thread from the start and I don't know why but the question suddenly came to me the other day about whether there were any photos taken of the ambulance(s) actually arriving at Michael's house?

I am really sorry if this has been discussed - I do try and keep up with everything all you amazing "detectives" are doing, but I could have missed this.

I have gained the impression that there was always "someone" outside the gates of his house, and if so, why are the only photos we see of vehicles already inside the property boundaries, or leaving to go to the hospital - did no-one think it important enough to photograph an ambulance actually arriving at his house - or was no-one there?

If this has been discussed and dispensed with I am sorry for bringing it up again - I'm not very good at all this :(

Sue
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: VeryLittleSusie on March 14, 2011, 02:32:26 PM
Quote from: "Soosie Woosie"
Please don't bash me, cos I don't post often at all, though I read sooo much on here.

I've been reading this thread from the start and I don't know why but the question suddenly came to me the other day about whether there were any photos taken of the ambulance(s) actually arriving at Michael's house?
(...)
 If this has been discussed and dispensed with I am sorry for bringing it up again - I'm not very good at all this :(

Sue

As far as I remember, there has never been anything like that proved on any forum.
Welcome to the Hoaxland, SUE.


I have a question:
Souza, are you an FBI agent, too?  :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: paula-c on March 14, 2011, 02:42:57 PM
Quote
finfin wrote:

Do you remember this on the 3rd September 2010, one year after the burial?
No coincidence
See post

viewtopic.php?f=135&t=13924
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/se (http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/se) ... eral-scams


If i remember this, here is explained very well how to organize a death and a funeral false, death certificate false,funeral with actors paid,  8-) funeral home and morgue involved, and of course the purchase of place in the cemetery :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Yambo3003 on March 14, 2011, 02:55:28 PM
The leaf-pattern fits more on this logo...

(http://pkdojo.com/Images/pc_logo.gif)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MJhunny on March 14, 2011, 03:07:10 PM
i'm having a hard time with some things
 if FBI are involved and MJ's in WPP then why a)have Murray in the mix at all
                                                                   b) leave clues, would the FBI agree to this?
                                                                    c) would the FBI bother with numerology, or let
                                                                        MJ bother with it?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: LadyMedic on March 14, 2011, 03:44:33 PM
Quote from: Elsa
Just the fact that the ambulance had trouble leaving the property is enough for me to doubt that it was a real ambulance in a real emergency situation. I'm sure Ambulance drivers aren't permitted to drive at high speeds weaving in traffic, as they do, without superior driving skills to other drivers - their training must be rigorous.  The guy backing out seems to take too long and needs too much assistance for a real driver who knows his vehicle. Why did he go in there frontways without checking how hard it was going to be to get out?  I need to find the aerial view of the house to check this - I know I've seen it on this site somewhere - but isn't their a circular drive?

Also - why was the fire engine there? Station 71 knew from the 911 call that the emergency was medical not a fire or rescue.  Is that normal practice?  It seems a waste of resources, but I suppose those guys made themselves useful, by setting out the witches hats that stopped traffic in the street and by guiding the ambulance through the gates.   

I believe that whatever Ben filmed that day could not have involved real paramedics believing it to be a real emergency (and anyone who has carefully watched that video would understand why). I think the fire truck was needed to prevent vehicles into the area and so the ambulance had to back out to explain why the whole raod need to be cut from traffic.  So I believe the whole thing was staged including the timing of the tour bus.
Fire trucks are sent because they carry more personnel and paramedics that are helpful on calls such as codes. Much easier to have a bunch of hands than 4.

Quote from: suspicious mind
can someone answer if the hospital was notified ahead of time that this person was enroute where would the hospital staff be at the time of arrival? waiting further inside or directly at the door?
Yes. Hospitals are notified in advance. The MDs and nurses would be inside the hospital waiting for the patient. Doctors or nurses do not meet ambulances outside.

Quote from: Im_convincedmjalive
You sure it is not against the HIPPA law? Btw: I have a background in medical coding and billing. I have worked for a private Dr.'s office and I have worked for a health insurance company processing claims and customer service. I legally could not say (outside of the realm of my job) I didn't work on so and so claim.
Only exception to that would be if I was given certain privilege to speak on it.

Quote from: bec
It's not against the HIPPA law for a paramedic to say that is not him (self, the paramedic "it's not me") appearing as a subject in a famous photograph of the victim of a high profile manslaughter case.

I don't buy it... that the authenticity would never be questioned if real paramedics (not in on it) were involved on 6/25/09.

I'm sticking to common sense dictating that the paramedics were actors, both that day and the other day-- even if that means the LAFD (or at least one) were working as actors at one point.
Quote
Protected health information (PHI), under the US Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA), is any information about health status, provision of health care, or payment for health care that can be linked to a specific individual. This is interpreted rather broadly and includes any part of a patient’s medical record or payment history.
The paramedics are providing the patient health care therefore they become part of the privacy issue. They also become part of the patient's medical record.
official story, have often given one or more of the following reasons against the hoax: there would be way too many people “in on it” (so surely someone would’ve let the cat out of the bag by now); or, many of the things that have happened would be illegal, if it was a hoax; or, the government would not be in on a plan to expose corruption in the government, etc.
It's actually HIPAA, not HIPPA (common mispelling, btw), and Bec is correct. Saying the ambulance photo is or is not them is not a violation of HIPAA.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: wishingstar on March 14, 2011, 03:54:57 PM
Quote from: "Soosie Woosie"
Please don't bash me, cos I don't post often at all, though I read sooo much on here.

I've been reading this thread from the start and I don't know why but the question suddenly came to me the other day about whether there were any photos taken of the ambulance(s) actually arriving at Michael's house?

I am really sorry if this has been discussed - I do try and keep up with everything all you amazing "detectives" are doing, but I could have missed this.

I have gained the impression that there was always "someone" outside the gates of his house, and if so, why are the only photos we see of vehicles already inside the property boundaries, or leaving to go to the hospital - did no-one think it important enough to photograph an ambulance actually arriving at his house - or was no-one there?

If this has been discussed and dispensed with I am sorry for bringing it up again - I'm not very good at all this :(

Sue

Hey Sue  :)
I am so glad you brought up the ambulance arriving.  In my very first post, I asked the same thing.  It's odd......Ben said something like...."...this was Michael's house, there were always people around....."  
Yet, nobody has uploaded a thing for the arrival of the ambulance?  If it shows up now, I am going to really think someone is watching/reading here, lol!  Here is a link to that first post of mine.  Blessings to you Sue! Have a great day!
viewtopic.php?f=253&t=10672 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=253&t=10672)

Blessings Always!
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MJonmind on March 14, 2011, 04:34:29 PM
If there is accuracy to BoW's posts it would confirm my long held thoughts on the existence of the original and this forum. It's the only logical conclusion. That's why I respect those in charge here so much.

Its Her, I think I know where you were going with your posts on the 2005 trial. For a long time now I have had many questions of things that didn't add up in the conventional stories. Thinking in terms of the FBI involvement makes many things possible. On a grander scale I still am amazed at the global focus on this single human being, and ripples of influence and involvement. I stand in awe... and I love Michael from the bottom of my heart.

Could it be the FBI and powerful individuals are helping him pull off "The Greatest Show on EArth"? He needs their authority and protection, but most importantly he has God's.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlpTFa-wGc4&feature=related[/youtube]
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Sarahli on March 14, 2011, 04:39:41 PM
I was thinking about the time of "death", wich had to be exactly at 2:26 to fit the hoax numerology. Therefore someone at the UCLA medical center must have been "in on it"?? Don't know if it has been talked about. Who pronounced the time of death?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Andrea on March 14, 2011, 05:21:10 PM
Ok soooo...are the paramedics actually undercover FBI agents who helped Michael escape, either that day or the other day??
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Ijustcantstoplovingu on March 14, 2011, 05:38:51 PM
Quote from: "finfin"
Do you remember this on the 3rd September 2010, one year after the burial?
 No coincidence
See post

viewtopic.php?f=135&t=13924 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=135&t=13924)
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/se ... eral-scams (http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/september/funeral-scams/financial-fraud-and-funeral-scams)

(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/fbi.jpg)


You beat me  :lol:   I was just thinking about this, and came on the forum to search for it, so thanks saved me a job  :lol:  :P

So we seem to be back at the beginning, maybe things will make more sence this time around.


Blessings to all  ;)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MJhunny on March 14, 2011, 05:41:56 PM
again, if FBI are involved then what gives with all the numerology ,like time of 911 call, time of death etc; Would they(FBI) bother with that or would they  let MJ bother with that??This still does'nt make sense...
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: 2good2btrue on March 14, 2011, 06:06:59 PM
So I guess the colour theme all along was for a different reason....red yellow and blue.  Hell, even Murray joined in.

The mission red shirt, with three 7's, was that a clue to let us know "Agent 007" was on a mission ???  :D
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: TS_comments on March 14, 2011, 06:29:26 PM
Quote from: "MJhunny"
i'm having a hard time with some things
 if FBI are involved and MJ's in WPP then why a)have Murray in the mix at all
                                                                   b) leave clues, would the FBI agree to this?
                                                                    c) would the FBI bother with numerology, or let
                                                                        MJ bother with it?

I never said WPP, others are saying that though.  FBI is involved with much more than just WPP.

The Elvis parallels here are also interesting and informative.  Elvis had governement help, and he did leave clues including numerology.  But he decided not to go into WPP, because it would mean NO more contact with family or friends.  Here is a little on that: http://www.lindahoodsigmontruth.com/page40

As far as the numerology, I will discuss that further in another comment reply soon.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: blue moon on March 14, 2011, 06:36:59 PM
Soosie Woosie

In the Hollywood video you see that  ,an ambulance, just rides behind the gate and the gate gets closed. It starts at 1.42. At the picture the Emt takes the roadblocks to put them on the street. The touristbus is not the same one as in the Starline tourist video.



(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/65/ambu33.jpg) (http://http)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: sandythyme on March 14, 2011, 06:44:31 PM
Thank you TS.  WPP was making me feel uneasy all day.  WPP would mean we would never see Michael again.  Involvement with the FBI could mean a number of situations at hand.  Thank you for answering before  I asked....Take care, Love to You
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: _Anna_ on March 14, 2011, 06:51:41 PM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Quote from: "MJhunny"
i'm having a hard time with some things
 if FBI are involved and MJ's in WPP then why a)have Murray in the mix at all
                                                                   b) leave clues, would the FBI agree to this?
                                                                    c) would the FBI bother with numerology, or let
                                                                        MJ bother with it?

I never said WPP, others are saying that though.  FBI is involved with much more than just WPP.

The Elvis parallels here are also interesting and informative.  Elvis had governement help, and he did leave clues including numerology.  But he decided not to go into WPP, because it would mean NO more contact with family or friends.  Here is a little on that: http://www.lindahoodsigmontruth.com/page40

As far as the numerology, I will discuss that further in another comment reply soon.
I have a question. I also always thought that FBI is involved, but what I also think is that some other forms of government are involved. Is that true? Is the government involved?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Andrea on March 14, 2011, 07:10:07 PM
Quote from: "Andrea"
Quote from: "2good2btrue"

Also, is it possible that MJ has been working undercover to expose all the Dr Feelgoods??

That's why he went Dr shopping and has so many different drugs in alias names? That is a criminal offense to forge a pescription..Elvis did the same thing by working with the DEA..(drug enforcement agency) Remember MJ meeting with Elvis? He said Elvis told him straight out..."Don't do drugs" Seems like all the pieces are coming together now..


Speaking of Elvis...Michael has 333 pages on his FBI file, Elvis has 663, or 330 more pages, many of which are dated after August 1977.

http://www.fbi.gov/foia/electronic-read ... is-presley (http://www.fbi.gov/foia/electronic-reading-room/elvis-presley)

Elvis was pronounced dead at 2:56 p.m., 30 minutes after Michael was.  TS stressed the number thirty in TIAI Update 6.5.  I just find that strange...

More interesting Elvis stuff:

"In December 1970, Elvis was inducted into the Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) by President Nixon. Elvis had just been awarded one of America's Ten Outstanding Young Men for his efforts to wipe out drugs. Elvis went undercover for the DEA and helped put one of America's largest crime rings behind bars. This particular undercover operation was coded 'Operation Fountain Pen'. Was Elvis really addicted to drugs..., or was he the ultimate actor after all? The U.S. Department of Justice's Federal Bureau of Investigation in Washington confirmed in a letter to Maria Columbus, president of The Elvis Special fan club, that Presley visited FBI headquarters on December 31, 1970 and was given a tour of FBI facilities. Two months prior to meeting with President Nixon, Elvis was presented with a CNOA Membership Certificate that reads: This is to certify that Elvis A. Presley is a member in good standing of the California Narcotics Officers Association. Once when Elvis was on stage, he wanted to prove to the audience that he was not strung out on drugs like everyone said he was. He then displayed a certificate to the audience and said, "This is from the International Narcotics Enforcement Association. This Certificate gives me special honors and a lifelong membership. I've been wearing a federal narcotics badge for six years. They don't give you that if you're strung out." One of the fan letters states that several police uniforms were delivered to Graceland on August 15, 1977"

From: http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/fo ... opic=26943 (http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=26943)

Wow.  :shock:
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: 2good2btrue on March 14, 2011, 07:26:59 PM
Thanks TS, so that also explains Lisa Maries comment...."MJ was afraid he would end up like Elvis"....Wow.  

Michael had a passionate motive after the death of his best friend and icon "James Brown" in the hands of dr feelgoods...including Dr Conrad Murray...

That's why they used the same casket, to drop us some hints.

That's why the family continue to spread the fact that MJ WAS a drug addict and feared for his life.....

It all makes alot more sense even though most of us had that figured from the start.

FBI are involved because he had many death threats, especially from the mafia and Thomne Thomne and the NOI ????  Am I on the right track ???

On December 21, 1970, Elvis Presley paid a visit to President Richard M. Nixon at the White House in Washington, D.C. The meeting was initiated by Presley, who wrote Nixon a six-page letter requesting a visit with the President and suggesting that he be made a "Federal Agent-at-Large" in the Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs. The events leading up to and after the meeting are detailed in the documentation and photographs included here, which include Presley's handwritten letter, memoranda from Nixon staff and aides, and the thank-you note from Nixon for the gifts (including a Colt 45 pistol and family photos) that Presley brought with him to the Oval Office.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/nsa/elvis/elnix.html (http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/nsa/elvis/elnix.html)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: 2good2btrue on March 14, 2011, 07:38:04 PM
http://www.kcrw.com/etc/programs/tb/tb1 ... al_entoura (http://www.kcrw.com/etc/programs/tb/tb100628the_original_entoura)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: suspicious mind on March 14, 2011, 07:45:51 PM
Quote from: "2good2btrue"
http://www.kcrw.com/etc/programs/tb/tb100628the_original_entoura

huh . we have vernon , charlie hodge , and i think i see larry geller and there is the famous dr. nick.
but no joe espesito as near as i can tell. thought joe was pretty close to him. strange set up to me.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: thecheetoman2004 on March 14, 2011, 07:48:46 PM
Quote from: "finfin"
Do you remember this on the 3rd September 2010, one year after the burial?
 No coincidence
See post

viewtopic.php?f=135&t=13924 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=135&t=13924)
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/se ... eral-scams (http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/september/funeral-scams/financial-fraud-and-funeral-scams)

(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/fbi.jpg)

If you look at the cemetary picture on that webpage, it looks EXACTLY like the cemetary used as the background for the Thriller videos they shot for TII....just, ya know, during the day.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: PureLove on March 14, 2011, 08:07:22 PM
Quote from: "Sarahli"
Well maybe that not the whole FBI agency is in on it, we often talked about key people in key places and when we think about the reasons for the hoax I hardly can imagine that the whole FBI is involved. Certainly a few good guys working there.

Agree with you Sarahli. People talk about if the courts of Murray was fake or not. I do believe that there're key people everywhere who are aware of the hoax. Not everyone should know about it. Not the entire DA, FBI, or the courts know about the hoax. To keep as less people as they could is the best for the sake of the hoax. So I do not think the entire FBI knows about Michael being an agent or knows about the hoax.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: fordtocarr on March 14, 2011, 08:13:23 PM
WOW WOW WOW WOW
I have tears in my eyes because it feels like we are onto something here.  I feel more and more hurt for Michael as this goes on.  The more I research and find the more I feel pain for what he lived with.  
This is just unreal to think that maybe Elvis wasn't a drug addict, but instead, working to GET the "drug lords".  Then to think, our Michael, the same thing!!
I remember Michael with Pres. Reagan and being so proud of him going us as an example against drugs...alcohol...and now I see Elvis with Pres. Nixon...same thing???  I am blown away.  I just cannot believe that these two men, stood up with two presidents against drugs, then DIED of drug overdoses!!!
NO!  I will never believe that.
I want to thank every one of you friends who also are taking so much time and love researching all this.  You know I've been wondering about the WHY'S of the need for us to do all the researching and not just believe and wait, and NOW I see.  
Now I see.  
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: PureLove on March 14, 2011, 08:22:05 PM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Quote from: "MJhunny"
i'm having a hard time with some things
 if FBI are involved and MJ's in WPP then why a)have Murray in the mix at all
                                                                   b) leave clues, would the FBI agree to this?
                                                                    c) would the FBI bother with numerology, or let
                                                                        MJ bother with it?

I never said WPP, others are saying that though.  FBI is involved with much more than just WPP.

The Elvis parallels here are also interesting and informative.  Elvis had governement help, and he did leave clues including numerology.  But he decided not to go into WPP, because it would mean NO more contact with family or friends.  Here is a little on that: http://www.lindahoodsigmontruth.com/page40

As far as the numerology, I will discuss that further in another comment reply soon.

Thank you TS for giving the information about WPP and people who goes into WPP can not contact with family or friends. Now it makes me wonder if Michael got into WPP or not. If he is in to WPP, that could explain the tears of Katherine at the funeral and at some interviews. They can not see Michael and that is such a hard situation that they cry because of that, not because of his "death". I also remember some of Michael's friends talk about him how they miss their friend. So we have two opitons. 1-Michael planned everything for such a long time ago and gave all the directions to those key people to give out the clues that Michael planned long ago and then he got into WPP and left. 2-He is working with FBI but didn't get into WPP but still for his safety he doesn't see his family and friends so often. I'll go with number two.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: ignisaeternus on March 14, 2011, 08:33:58 PM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Quote from: "ignisaeternus"
I agree with most of It'sHer's theorie, re actor paramedics, staged 911 calls etc. With the addition of low enforcement involvement on some level. It is really the only thing explaining why the real ambulance 71 crew has not spoken up. Also, it ties in to the previously addressed code 71- meaning approved absence. If nothing was random, than the choice of # of ambulance was not, either.
Also, if there was no real 911 call, and there is no law enforcement involvement, I think actual authorites would have come forward.  You can't pay off everyone.  And- there are bigger lures than short-term gain. Meaning, notoriety for exposing the hoax.

To me, some degree of witness protection, similar program, or law enforcement involvement (remember, the chief of la police resigned shortly after June 09- at least I think that's who it was, or other high up police official) is the ONE thing that ties together the non-matching photos, the different version 911 calls, the real paramedics vs actors issue, and impunity.  I always believed there was a threat to Michael's life- as did he according to several people.  Maybe, he finally got the attention he deserved and things tied into his long-term plans.
It also helps explain changes in BAM timeline as well as trail date changes- if things are not purely up to Michael.

Several people are generally on the right track, including this quoted comment here and the one before it {by MsTrinity333, http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=150#p312205}.  So I am now going to drop a huge clue.  Actually, I thought someone would find this before now, especially with the timing clue that I gave when I posted the beginning of this thread (MsTrinity333   :o ).

Here is your big clue: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption
Oh, wow- I was not able to come on and check much this weekend- come back to see what I missed and find my post.  I am SO THRILLED- and humbled- thanks, TS.
Now, interesting that you mention that WPP is not the only thing the FBI is involved in.  I have been thinking for a while: the two things people connect to Michael (beyond music) are drugs and children.  If you add the FBI factor- those elements all tie to sexual exploitation of children and or pornography (usually drugs are involved).  Now, this might come out of left field, but bear with me for a moment: Think of one of the themes that seems to stick out in recent songs- the corruption of Hollywood and how young girls (in those cases, but boys are affected as well) are exploited.  You find this in Hollywood Tonight and Do you Know Where Your Children Are.  In Hollywood Tonight, you have a line in the text book after “she’s taught that that’s not clean”- that says something like “she’s only 16” (or was it 15- once again too lazy to go check).  Some motto in DYKWYCA- the girl in that song is 12.  
Michael having been accused of the heinous acts against children might have awoken or strengthened his disgust at what was going on.  Young children/ teens being exploited is an open secret in Hollywood and you better believe he knew what was going on, having been a child in Hollywood himself and probably having seen much.  Due to his insider status- he might have been able to open doors regular FBI informants could not get through.
Of course, this then, ties to the top of the Entertainment Industry and would have made him many enemies (if word or even suspicion) got out.  Hence- the drive to destroy him (and the money to be made on the side was certainly a bonus).
So, just like Elvis the “druggy” might have worked for law enforcement to combat drug trafficking, Michael, the accused child molester might have worked behind the scenes to expose people involved in sexual exploitation of minors in the “industry.”
How does the hoax/ numerology tie in?  Well, he had the idea obviously for a long time.  And if he knew he was in danger on several fronts, he then combined the hoax agenda with the FBI activities (whatever they are).  
Someone earlier asked how the FBI ties in with the “end of the world”- well, it has been mentioned numerous times that the 333 pages were released o 12/21 (2009)- which of course is also time of the 911 call.  So, was it FBI to the rescue?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: StrangerInCalifornia on March 14, 2011, 08:50:05 PM
Quote from: "Sarahli"
I was thinking about the time of "death", wich had to be exactly at 2:26 to fit the hoax numerology. Therefore someone at the UCLA medical center must have been "in on it"?? Don't know if it has been talked about. Who pronounced the time of death?
As far as I remember, it was Jermaine who announced the time of death.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: StrangerInCalifornia on March 14, 2011, 08:51:39 PM
Quote from: "thecheetoman2004"
Quote from: "finfin"
Do you remember this on the 3rd September 2010, one year after the burial?
 No coincidence
See post

viewtopic.php?f=135&t=13924 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=135&t=13924)
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/se ... eral-scams (http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/september/funeral-scams/financial-fraud-and-funeral-scams)

(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/fbi.jpg)

If you look at the cemetary picture on that webpage, it looks EXACTLY like the cemetary used as the background for the Thriller videos they shot for TII....just, ya know, during the day.
I knew there was something familiar about that picture n i just couldnt put my finger on it! :shock:
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: fordtocarr on March 14, 2011, 08:52:36 PM
Quote from: "ignisaeternus"
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Quote from: "ignisaeternus"
I agree with most of It'sHer's theorie, re actor paramedics, staged 911 calls etc. With the addition of low enforcement involvement on some level. It is really the only thing explaining why the real ambulance 71 crew has not spoken up. Also, it ties in to the previously addressed code 71- meaning approved absence. If nothing was random, than the choice of # of ambulance was not, either.
Also, if there was no real 911 call, and there is no law enforcement involvement, I think actual authorites would have come forward.  You can't pay off everyone.  And- there are bigger lures than short-term gain. Meaning, notoriety for exposing the hoax.

To me, some degree of witness protection, similar program, or law enforcement involvement (remember, the chief of la police resigned shortly after June 09- at least I think that's who it was, or other high up police official) is the ONE thing that ties together the non-matching photos, the different version 911 calls, the real paramedics vs actors issue, and impunity.  I always believed there was a threat to Michael's life- as did he according to several people.  Maybe, he finally got the attention he deserved and things tied into his long-term plans.
It also helps explain changes in BAM timeline as well as trail date changes- if things are not purely up to Michael.

Several people are generally on the right track, including this quoted comment here and the one before it {by MsTrinity333, http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=150#p312205}.  So I am now going to drop a huge clue.  Actually, I thought someone would find this before now, especially with the timing clue that I gave when I posted the beginning of this thread (MsTrinity333   :o ).

Here is your big clue: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption
Oh, wow- I was not able to come on and check much this weekend- come back to see what I missed and find my post.  I am SO THRILLED- and humbled- thanks, TS.
Now, interesting that you mention that WPP is not the only thing the FBI is involved in.  I have been thinking for a while: the two things people connect to Michael (beyond music) are drugs and children.  If you add the FBI factor- those elements all tie to sexual exploitation of children and or pornography (usually drugs are involved).  Now, this might come out of left field, but bear with me for a moment: Think of one of the themes that seems to stick out in recent songs- the corruption of Hollywood and how young girls (in those cases, but boys are affected as well) are exploited.  You find this in Hollywood Tonight and Do you Know Where Your Children Are.  In Hollywood Tonight, you have a line in the text book after “she’s taught that that’s not clean”- that says something like “she’s only 16” (or was it 15- once again too lazy to go check).  Some motto in DYKWYCA- the girl in that song is 12.  
Michael having been accused of the heinous acts against children might have awoken or strengthened his disgust at what was going on.  Young children/ teens being exploited is an open secret in Hollywood and you better believe he knew what was going on, having been a child in Hollywood himself and probably having seen much.  Due to his insider status- he might have been able to open doors regular FBI informants could not get through.
Of course, this then, ties to the top of the Entertainment Industry and would have made him many enemies (if word or even suspicion) got out.  Hence- the drive to destroy him (and the money to be made on the side was certainly a bonus).
So, just like Elvis the “druggy” might have worked for law enforcement to combat drug trafficking, Michael, the accused child molester might have worked behind the scenes to expose people involved in sexual exploitation of minors in the “industry.”
How does the hoax/ numerology tie in?  Well, he had the idea obviously for a long time.  And if he knew he was in danger on several fronts, he then combined the hoax agenda with the FBI activities (whatever they are).  
Someone earlier asked how the FBI ties in with the “end of the world”- well, it has been mentioned numerous times that the 333 pages were released o 12/21 (2009)- which of course is also time of the 911 call.  So, was it FBI to the rescue?

Great post.  Great thinking and reasoning.  Can you tie in the "we have 4 years"? (is that right?)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: 2good2btrue on March 14, 2011, 09:02:17 PM
I have had this picture saved to my computer for 16 mths....

Also, the pictures of Liberian Girl at the funeral & memorial possibly suggested MJ was in Liberia, Africa.  Joe Jackson always wore his African necklace.  Liberia a Long Way From Winning War on Drugs.....there is a major drug and drug trafficking problem there........

Liberia's Drug Enforcement Agency says it lacks the financial and logistical support to adequately crack down on illegal drug trafficking. Agency officials say the country's weak drug laws are compounding the problem.

According to Liberia's Drug Enforcement Agency, law enforcement officials lack the man power, money and laws to deter drug trafficking.
Colonel James Jaddah is the executive director of the agency. He says there is a need for better logistics within his organization. "Right now we are operating with only five vehicles, all assigned to headquarters,” Jaddah said. “In the other 15 counties we don't have the capacity to purchase vehicles, so this has been hindering our progress when it comes to operational activities."He says the DEA also lacks adequate financial support, from the government and from the international community.Jaddah says Liberia's weak drug laws present another serious problem. He says drug dealers are more typically fined than jailed, with the average penalty costing a dealer about $50. "We go out there and we make all the arrests,” he added. “The suspect [is] taken to court, the suspect is being given a cash bill, and as soon as the cash bill is paid, that person is out on the street doing the same thing that they were doing before. The penalty is very weak, it's nothing compared to other countries."Jaddah says a bill based on Nigeria's tougher drug laws was drafted and introduced to Liberia's Legislature. The lower house approved the bill, but it has since stalled in the upper house. Although marijuana is locally produced, Jaddah says it is mostly foreigners who bring harder controlled substances like cocaine and heroin into Liberia.Lamin Kollie, 28, a drug user, said he first began taking cocaine during Liberia's civil war years. "I'm taking cocaine. I've been taking this for more than two years. I can't do without it,” said Kollie. “I've been arrested on many occasions, but I manage to escape."Kollie said if the government would provide jobs, he would stop doing drugs.Jaddah says Liberian youths who are expected to one day lead the country are falling victim to drug habits. He says more has to be done to prevent drugs from ruining the younger generation.

<!-- m -->http://www.somalipress.com/news/2011-ja ... drugs.html (http://www.somalipress.com/news/2011-jan-07/liberia-long-way-winning-war-drugs.html)<!-- m -->

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WMpy0HEGVA[/youtube]
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: ignisaeternus on March 14, 2011, 09:20:41 PM
Quote from: "fordtocarr"
Great post.  Great thinking and reasoning.  Can you tie in the "we have 4 years"? (is that right?)

Hm.. Well, I think Jehova Witness teaching still influenced Michael's spirituality very much (no matter what his non-religious activties were).  According to their teachings, the end of the world does not mean destruction, but deliverance from those who are evil (and I know this because my husband started to have Bible Study every week with a Jehova's Witness).  In that- helping uncover corruption that endangers children on the micro level and (as pointed out by TS can reach up so high it endagners our national security) would fit in with - having 4 years to get it right.  That part, of course, again, was influenced my Michael's religious views.  Now, I know that the JW do not pick 2012- but Michael might have seen this as the dates he had in mind.  Or maybe, 12-21-12 is more of a symblic date (signifying the end) which was then tied in in a more concrete manner into the clues of TII and the hoax.  The four years, using inclusive reckoning, would extend from 2009 until 2012 (counting 2009 as year one- and 2012 as year 4)- as previously discussed.

Anyway- this is just one theorie (as in hyothesis, not as in proven theorie) that's been swirling around in my mind.  

Maybe, to be thorough, we should also look at why the FBI CANNOT be involved- to make sure we have a solid case for involvment.  I already stated that I think they are.  For arguments sake, I am not that great at numerology, so I would need some solid proof to show how it ties in (beyond the 33, the 12-21 release date of the file)- I can see that one could argue, FBI protection or involvment would make aderence to numerology more difficult.  (even though, I am sure that if this went on for years, MJ had established some ammount of creative freedom in how he would pull this off).
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: TS_comments on March 14, 2011, 09:41:22 PM
Quote from: MJonmind
So how does the FBI fit with this?
Quote
by TS » Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:30 am

TIAI Revealed, Part 9: Today is 12-21-2009 (R49)

In this final part, we are going to be examining once again the “2012” film—especially as it relates to the concept of the end of the world on 12-21-2012, which is exactly three years from today. The “2012” movie story starts in the year 2009, and ends in 2012.

The “four years” that MJ mentioned in TII started in the spring of 2009 (when the “This Is It” concerts were in the planning stages); so we have already gone through the first year. You could also think of the four years as ending on 9-9-09, 10-10-10, 11-11-11, and 12-12-12 (ten day countdown to 12-21-12). Of course these are a little more than a year apart; but they are interesting numerology milestones in the four year process.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
“Can Ye Not Discern the Signs of the Times?”

Jesus said: “… ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?” (Matthew 16:3). Jesus also said: “… when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh [near], even at the doors. … Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.” (Mark 13:29-32).

So we don’t know the exact day or hour of the end of the world—maybe not even the exact year. But if we can “discern the signs of the times”, we should be able to know when it is near! The exact date of 12-21-2012 for the end of the world is fiction; it could happen on that date, but unlikely. However the end of the world being near is a very real concept, and not merely fiction. So let’s look at some of the “signs of the times”, which show that the end is near.

Speaking of fleeing at the end of time, Jesus said: “But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.” (Matthew 24:20,21). Did you know that 12-21-2012 will be the first day of winter (northern hemisphere)? And did you know that 12-21-2012 will be a Friday? And did you know that in the Bible, the Sabbath day begins at sunset on Friday?? Is it a coincidence, that both of the things which Jesus mentioned (winter and Sabbath) will begin on the same day that the Mayan calendar ends?

Again, this does not necessarily mean that the world will end on 12-21-2012; in fact, Jesus asked us to pray that we would not have to flee on that day. Nevertheless, the fact that all these things line up on the same day is almost certainly a clue (sign) that the end is near.

The NWO is another huge sign that the end is near. It was prophesied nearly 2,000 years ago in the book of Revelation; read the whole book, especially the last half—and most particularly Revelation chapters 17 & 18. Here are a couple verses: “These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them:” (17:13,14).

Also very well known, from the book of Revelation, is 666 and the mark of the beast (see Revelation 13 & 14). The mark is related to finances: “And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark …” (13:17).

Surely you know that USA has the largest economy in the world. But did you know that S&P 500 (not Dow) is “the most reliable measure of the broader market” {http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=7468215}? And did you know that the S&P 500 hit a low of 666 this year on 3-6-09 {http://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story.asp?StoryId=%7bD2687B35-8BC2-4AA9-A2D4-A004E3E15AF1%7d}; even the date is similar to 666 (subtract 3 from the last digit, and add it to the first digit). This was the bottom point in the worst US recession since the great depression; and in fact many people were calling it the verge of financial “Armageddon” (another end-of-the-world term from Revelation). What does this mean? Surely, it is another sign that the end is near.

Daniel 12:4 says that in “… the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.” Do we see that today? Travel on a major scale, the likes of which has never existed before in human history. And also there is increasing knowledge in many areas, never before known to man. In fact the internet, a major source of knowledge, has only come into normal household use in the last decade or two. Furthermore, the speed that we can now share information on the internet (through videos, pictures, etc) is something that we couldn’t do just a few years ago.

Another sign of the end is many natural disasters (see Matthew 24:7; Mark 13;8; Luke 21:11; etc). Did you know that earthquakes (along with other disasters) are on the increase? {http://earthquake.usgs.gov/}

As mentioned already (see R47), the Ark of the Covenant plays a major role near the end of time. Again, stayed tuned to TIAI for more info on the Ark; this will certainly happen well before 12-21-2012.

And what about the Mayan calendar ending on 12-21-2012, should we entirely dismiss this? Again, maybe nothing will happen on that exact day—perhaps not even in that year; but especially in light of all the other signs, it is pretty evident that the Mayans did not miss the end of the world by centuries, or even decades. Sometimes I think that the ancient civilizations had more true wisdom than modern man, with all his boasted technology and science.

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“The Son of Man Cometh at an Hour When Ye Think Not.”

“Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.” (Luke 12:40; see 12:46; Matthew 24:50). “… the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.” (1 Thessalonians 5:2,3; see Luke 17:26-30).

Different people have different concepts—even within Christianity—about the end of the world: when it will happen, how it will happen, etc. And other religions also have their concepts of the end of time. But most people in most religions are realizing that the world is on the verge of some major change; that is just too obvious to hide.

And for those who think that there will be at least seven more years before the end, be careful. Maybe there will be, but maybe not. Remember that the Jews—even Christ’s own disciples—thought that prophecy was yet to be fulfilled, before the Messiah would come; and yet the prophecy had already been fulfilled, and they didn’t recognize it (see Malachi 4:5; Matthew 17:10-13; etc).

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
“There Shall Come in the Last Days Scoffers”

“Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.” (2 Peter 3:3,4; see 3:5,6).

Scoffing is another major sign that the end is near. Just because there have been false alarms in the past, doesn’t mean that the real thing will never come. So don’t be too quick to join in with the scoffing attitude.

And don’t be over confident in what the media or scientists tell you (that it’s not the end of the world); often scientists are right, but they have also been wrong at times (see 1 Timothy 6:20).

Scientists were wrong in the days of Noah; they told everyone not to worry about any flood, because it had never rained before and “all things [would] continue as they were from the beginning of the creation” (see Genesis 2:5; 2 Peter 3:3-6). So of all the people in the antediluvian world: only eight refused to believe the scientists, and decided to get into the ark of safety.

Do you think that the flood is just a myth? Jesus took it literally, and used it as an example of how people would be at the end of the world: “And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.” (see Matthew 24:37-39; Hebrews 11:7; 1 Peter 3:20; 2 Peter 2:5; etc). Again, stay tuned to TIAI: and soon you will see abundant evidence that the flood of Noah literally happened—similar to the final scenes in the “2012” movie.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
This Is REALLY It!

The end of the world is near: whether you want it or not, whether you believe it or not, whether you’re ready or not—the end of the world is coming, soon and very soon! This is big; this is huge; this is colossal; in fact, it really doesn’t get any bigger than this!!! And once again, from the London press conference {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1znYaU0oeo&feature=PlayList&p=4337629E8ED55A02&index=4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1znYaU0oeo&feature=PlayList&p=4337629E8ED55A02&index=4)}: “This is it, I mean this is REALLY it; this is the final — this is the FINAL curtain call.”

As ignisaeternus just pointed out: "... it has been mentioned numerous times that the 333 pages were released o 12/21 (2009)- which of course is also time of the 911 call." {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=275#p313434 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=275#p313434)}.  Actually, they were released on 12-22-09; but 12-21 was the date that the 333 pages were supposed to be released, and it got delayed one day because of bad weather.

Anyway, some have questioned if the FBI would be involved in the numerology; and as I already mentioned, Elvis had governement help and also used numerology (including planning the death date to fit the numerology).  So regardless of why, the fact is that they can include numerology--and in fact they already have done so with Elvis, so why not with MJ?

Anyone who has read the numerology posts already knows that 111 is the most fundamental number of the MJ hoax {see especially Update #4, http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=125&t=7010 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=125&t=7010)}.  Along with almost all of the hoax numbers, 333 also divides evenly by 111.  The chance of this being a coincidence is about 1 in 111.

However, planning to release these exact same 333 pages on 12-21, what are the odds that this was ALSO a coincidence?  With 365 days in a year, it would be 1 chance in 365.  Of course someone could say that there are more opportunities for a coincidence during the year, such as 11-5 (V); however, that date would not divide evenly by 111; and 1221 does divide evenly by 111.  Also, 12:21 is the time of the 911 call.  So there is no day of the year which would fit better to release the 333 pages, than on 12-21 (also the date of TIAI Revealed  :) .

Now what are the odds that the pages were 333 by coincidence, AND the planned release was 12-21 by coincidence?  Multiply the two odds: 111 x 365 = one chance in 40,515 that this was just a coincidence.  And if it's not a coincidence, then we know that the FBI are helping with the hoax--and we also know that they are including numerology, just like with Elvis.

Finally, what are the odds that the FBI funeral article with the "Thriller" graveyard would be dated on the anniversary of the MJ burial, just by coincidence--in addition to the above "coincidences" (333 & 12-21), and all the other "coincidences" (FBI cap, other numerology, etc)?

http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/september/funeral-scams/financial-fraud-and-funeral-scams (http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/september/funeral-scams/financial-fraud-and-funeral-scams)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: AllInGoodTime on March 14, 2011, 09:45:30 PM
Hypothetically speaking- I wonder if there is a way to look-up/find doctors in say the last 5 years or so that have been busted for improper disturbution of narcotics...then maybe see if MJ went to any...../shrug...if there was a way to do that.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: PureLove on March 14, 2011, 10:08:12 PM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Anyway, some have questioned if the FBI would be involved in the numerology; and as I already mentioned, Elvis had governement help and also used numerology (including planning the death date to fit the numerology). So regardless of why, the fact is that they can include numerology--and in fact they already have done so with Elvis, so why not with MJ?

One thing that I am sure of with this hoax. THERE IS NO COINCIDENCE! I'm a little bit confused with this TS. Do you mean that FBI arranged the dates of the funeral and the memorial which perfectly fits with making 666 upside down to 999? Michael didn't arrange the dates and the numerology of the hoax? Then, FBI is giving us a message about illuminati?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on March 14, 2011, 10:22:57 PM
Ok I didn't realize you were gonna go there TS.  <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> I was trying to just stay on the subject of the paramedics but now that you opened up the direction of this to go towards the FBI being involved I am re-posting some info I have known about for a while now. I didn't want to get to ahead of the game, lol

There is actually a lot of thoughts I have that go beyond just this type of info. I have some theories regarding the body guards and the 3 people who helped to get Michael ready for his Memorial/burial. I am basing my opinion on info I have watched. Until that subject comes up I will be silent.  <!-- s:| -->:|<!-- s:| -->  Some of the links below will have to copied and pasted into the browser. I do not know why some work and others do not. @Anyone who is interested: This is a long post but worth reading.  <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->

Peace


<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?p=288688#p288754 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=288688#p288754)<!-- l -->
TIAI 01/02
by Im_convincedmjalive » Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:11 am
Quote
This thread below has info on factions and undercover work. I agree with SoldierofLOVE that Michael is involved with law enforcement (deep under cover) and he is on a mission to clean up the corrupt Government in the USA and at the same time warn others of the shady stuff their Govts. are doing to them also.

viewtopic.php?f=48&t=14140&p=239909#p239085

viewtopic.php?f=72&t=1930&start=0
Quote
Now back to the “MJ Conspiracy” book and video. Quite obviously, there was a conspiracy against MJ, even though it wasn’t a murder conspiracy. And the testimony from Aphrodite shows that people involved in a conspiracy may not even know it themselves (only the upper levels understand). And even after she recognized the conspiracy, it seems that she only saw media and money as the source of the conspiracy—not the NWO powers controlling the media.

The conspiracy did succeed to the extent of damaging MJ’s reputation; but it did not succeed to the extent of the court finding him guilty. At the end of the video clip, Aphrodite asked a very appropriate question: “Why are we still crucifying this man? He was found not guilty.”
viewtopic.php?f=72&t=7194&start=0&hilit=key+people
Quote
Only a few key people in the know are needed to pull off this payback.
MJ has been planning this hoax for many years; and he had the time and influence to get a few key people in the right positions to pull it off—and yes, even government agencies still have some good people in them. Look at history: many times people in high positions have stood up against the corruption in their own system (government, or church, etc).
<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=48&t=14140&p=239909#p239085 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=14140&p=239909#p239085)<!-- l -->
Panel discussion about the criminal & civil case against
by Im_convincedmjalive » Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:50 pm
Quote from: Im_convincedmjalive
Quote from: heisinme09
Here's what I think....I think Melville is nervous....I think the tide is turning toward Michael's good name finally being cleared....I think this is all part and parcel to the underlying roots of the Hoax....Sneddon was not there because he's the object of the investigation....for why else would he NOT be there?....think about it.....Michael is slowly but surely making sure his long awaited justice comes to him....he is able to accomplish this a lot better from behind the cloak of "death".....the theory that Michael is being helped by the FBI or other authorities totally fits with a scenario like this.....Sweet Baby Jesus!....this is really getting good, people.....
Quote from: Sky
Quote from: mjfansince4
good theory. just one question- if you think one of the reasons for the hoax is the NWO, then would the FBI be in on it? and if one or two people did release the 333 pages (which i think is pretty fair to assume it's not a coincidence), wouldn't that person/persons be threatened?

i'm not saying you know all the answers, i think your theory is wonderful and i agree on most parts. it's just the NWO thing is so tricky!
Well it could be Factions?
Long but worth it

WHAT DO I MEAN WHEN I TALK ABOUT THE TWO FACTIONS?

Posted By: Rayelan <Send E-Mail>
Date: Tuesday, 23-Dec-2003 17:43:31
WHAT ARE THE FACTIONS?
WHERE DID THEY COME FROM?

What is the Main difference Between Them?

RMNEWS -- In 1989, the Publisher of Rumor Mill News, Rayelan Allan, married Captain Gunther K. Russbacher, Office of Naval Intelligence attached to the CIA.

Gunther Russbacher is the first person to introduce the concept of "The Factions" to the world at large. Rumor Mill News was the first internet news site to to write about the "Secret War Between the Factions"... a mostly silent war that goes on behind the scenes.

                    The Factions exist in every country throughout the world. They are in every political party, every Non Governmental Group (NGOs), every state, county, town and even your school boards!

                    Faction One is the group of international bankers and corporations that wish to control the entire world. Faction Two (F2) is made up of a covert group of men and women who know what Faction One (F1) wants, and purposely throws roadblocks in their path to slow down their world takeover.

                    Rumor Mill News was started in 1996 to reveal some of the hidden truths about the governments of the world. One of the hidden truths that the founders of Rumor Mill News revealed to a large audience in 1992 was that the Federal Reserve Banking System in the United States is NOT owned by the United States government. It is owned by international bankers who have their headquarters in the "City of London", which is a separate part of London.

                    The owners of the Federal Reserve, through the United Nations, Non Governmental Organizations, think tanks, non-profits, the World Bank, the IMF and other means, have used the money they stole from the American people to infiltrate and "buy" i.e. "steal" the wealth of other countries.

                    The "owners" of the Federal Reserve are made up of 300 interconnected families. These families are firmly planted in ALL countries of the world. These families have a plan for a ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT which will be UNDER their control. All nations and people will LOSE their sovereignty.

                    The common phrase for these people and their plan is: THE NEW WORLD ORDER.

                    Most American patriots and other nationalists around the world KNOW about the threat to their sovereignty from the New World Order. What they don't know is that there has been another force, hiding in the shadows. A force that has been putting road blocks in the path of the New World Order since the end of World War Two.

                    The men and women who make up this hidden force call themselves Faction Two, (F2). They label themselves this way because THEY came second. The bankers of the New World Order set about destroying the sovereignty of nations. The men and women of Faction Two formed as a result of losing their nations.

In the United States, the members of Faction Two call themselves "The Cowboys".

                    To fully explain the Factions, I would have to write a book, In this article I will TRY to be Brief:

Faction One is the New World Order, made up of the International bankers, the 300 un-named families who also own our Federal Reserve Banking System. These families are descended ideologically AND biologically from the Rothschild funded Illuminati. Faction One also created the Corporations.

                        Corporations were created by the King of England who was/is owned and controlled by the Rothschilds.

                        The center for Faction One is located in a private nation/state within London. This nation state is called "The City of London". It is an autonomous nation/state similar to the Vatican and Washington DC.

                        From the "City of London", the Illuminati bankers control the entire planet, planning wars, famine, disease, drought, and other disasters which will contain and subjugate humans... especially those living in the first world countries.

                        Faction Two is descended from the King of Bavaria, the Knights Templars and the German Abwehr. Faction Two was created by men whose countries had been destroyed by the New World Order.

                        In 1784, the King of Bavaria blew the whistle on the planned take-over of the monarchies of Europe by the Illuminati/Rothschilds. As a a result, the NWO, which had expected to go "online" in 1776, had to retreat to the shadows and build up their strength for their "next planned world-takeover".

                    See this timeline and please notice the date the Illuminati was founded. May 1st... that date has now come to be associated with the communist workers party. To understand why this is so, you have to know this history of communism and that it was founded by the Illuminati bankers.

                    May 1, 1776 – Historically, it refers specifically to the Bavarian Illuminati, an Enlightenment-era secret society founded on May 1st, 1776. In modern times it is also used to refer to a purported conspiratorial organization which acts as a shadowy “power behind the throne …Historically, it refers specifically to the Bavarian Illuminati, an Enlightenment-era secret society founded on May 1st, 1776. In modern times it is also used to refer to a purported conspiratorial organization which acts as a shadowy “power behind the throne,” allegedly controlling world affairs through present day governments and corporations, usually as a modern incarnation or continuation of the Bavarian Illuminati.

                    1784 – For much more about the original Bavarian Illuminati, see Chapter But for our discussion here, the second piece of the conspiratorial whammy came when King Karl Theodor outlawed all secret societies in Bavaria in 1784, including both the Illuminati and the the Freemasons. Illuminati founder Adam Weishaupt (who really was up to no good) was forced to flee the country, chased by the king’s soldiers.

                    1785 – Public attention was first drawn to the existence of the Illuminati and their diabolical plan for world conquest as the result of a bizarre accident in 1785. History records that a courier for the Illuminati, named Lanze, was racing on horseback from Frankfurt to Paris carrying documents relating to Illuminati activities in general, and specific instructions for the planned French Revolution in particular.

                    Read more: <!-- m -->http://politicalpete.com/illuminati-tim ... KQFBSpVZ&C (http://politicalpete.com/illuminati-timeline-in-history/#ixzz0KQFBSpVZ&C)<!-- m -->

                    Other articles, which are linked below, give more background. This is just a thumbnail sketch.

                    The main difference between the two factions is
                    Slavery versus Freedom.

                    Over the years, I have posted many different articles in which I talked about the two Factions who appear to be vying for control of the world.

                    Faction 1, the NWO promises us a future that is a slave state.

                    Faction 2, the one that my ex-husband Gunther Russbacher talked about, promises us a world that is similar to the United States in the 50s.... not perfect... but definitely NOT a Slave-State!

                    Before RMN appeared on the web, the concept of "Factions" did not exist. The only place it had been mentioned, besides the print edition of RMNews, was in Rodney Stich's "Defrauding America", a book for which Gunther Russbacher was the main source.... not the ONLY government source... but the main one!

                    I first started posting information on the web about the Two Factions in 1999. If you have been with RMN since that time, then of course you know what the Factions are, so you can skip this article.

                    However, we have many new readers AND new RMNews Agents who have never read these articles. Here at RMN we encourage independent thought and as a result we also have a few RMN Agents who have their own opinions of what the TWO factions are... there are some people who have even created a Faction Three.

                    There is a Faction Three... several of them.

                  # One is made up of Rogues who fight for whoever gives them the most money.

                  # Another is made up of a coalition of people from both Faction Two and Faction One because they believe both factions are wrong.

                  # Yet another is made up of the children of Faction One who no longer want to play the centuries long game of world control.

                    Here is the first article I ever wrote about the Factions:

                    FACTION TWO -- THE ABWEHR -- KNIGHTS TEMPLARS
                    Posted By: Rayelan -

                    Date: Sunday, 10 September 2000, 5:19 p.m. - An Explanation Faction Two

                    To really understand where my ex-husband is coming from, when he told me about Faction Two, you need to know a little about him, who he was, where he came from and what he knew.

                    You might also want to see what he looks like. This is part of the only video interview that is in the public domain. The producers of ABC and Geraldo Rivera's canceled TV program, Now It Can Be Told also have taped interviews of Gunther, but they have never released them.

                    Admiral Gunther K. Russbacher was a 30 plus year veteran of the CIA and the Office of Naval Intelligence. He was also the co-founder of the print edition of Rumor Mill News.

IS MICHAEL JACKSON'S TRIAL REVENGE FROM FACTION ONE?

In the case of the current accuser, the fact that he lied in a case that his mother brought against JC Penney's should tell jurors that the boy's mother can coerce him into lying.

Regarding the 1993 accuser, I think people need to ask themselves why the young man chooses to live in France and has NOT spoken to his parents since 1993.

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Could it be that his parents, along with the same lawyer and same psychologist used by the current accuser, made these allegations against Michael for money. In this original case, did you know that Michael did NOT want to settle out of court. He wanted to go to court. It was his insurance company that convinced him to settle.

In the case of Michael Jackson, there are many things in his background that alert me to the fact that he could have been working behind the scenes for Faction Two for a very long time.

Intelligence agencies create film stars, singers, dancers and sports heros in order to use them to get close to "target" people. In the case of Shirly MacClaine, she was used in many different ways, one of them was to become the girlfriend of an Australian politician and then blackmail him into changing banking laws so the CIA could open banks in Australia to launder drug money. Did she understand everything she was doing? Of cource not. All spies operate on a "need to know". basis, and all she was told was to befriend this fellow... I think it was Andrew Peacock... but without going back in my files I will have to rely on the Australians to confirm this for me.

Without understanding the war between the Factions, it's hard to see Michael Jackson's case as anything but a case against a pedophile. Hopefully it's clear to most readers that when pedophiles molest children, a lot more is done than just licking their hair or giving them "wedgies". The pedophile cases that have been in the news recently should give people an idea of what pedophiles do to children. When they rape children, their tear them internally. Many times the children die of infection while the pedophiles are continuing to rape them.

The horrors that these children endure CAN'T be compared to what Michael Jackson has been accused of. Michael was NEVER accused of penetrating a child!

Regardless of what the jury says about Michael, I believe he is innocent of the charges. In my opinion, someone is out to get Michael. I do not know why.

I can guess that the SONY executives have a great deal to gain from Michael's conviction. A company, which is jointly owned by Jackson and Sony, controls the catalogs of such artists as the Beatles, Brooks & Dunn, Leonard Cohen, David Crosby, Miles Davis, Neil Diamond, Bob Dylan, Merle Haggard, Lauryn Hill, Willie Nelson, Stevie Nicks...

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Michael probably alienated himself from SONY further when he went to the Harlem headquarters of the Reverend Al Sharpton's National Action Network to lend his support to a coalition the two men recently formed with attorney Johnnie Cochran to examine whether the music industry is cheating artists out of profits. Quoting Michael from the press conference:

"The record companies really do conspire against the artists, especially the black artists" Jackson told the crowd of 350 fans.

"When you fight for me, you're fighting for all black people, dead and alive. We have to put a stop to this incredible injustice."

Michael also launched into a tirade against Tommy Mottola, accusing the Sony Music honcho of being a racist and mistreating artists of color and ticked off the names of artists he felt have been wronged, including Mottola's ex-wife, Mariah Carey, James Brown and Sammy Davis Jr.

Please remember that SONY is Standard Oil of New York, a Rockefeller corporation. The Rockefellers are major players in Faction One and the NWO. As most readers understand, Faction One aka the NWO... is made up from the 300 families who own the Federal Reserve Banking System. These are the people who control the economies of the world. These are the people who rule WHO becomes famous and WHO stays famous!!

It is my opinion that Faction ONE is out to railroad Michael Jackson. I don't believe that their ONLY reason is to get the catalog that Michael owns. It's my opinion that Michael probably assisted Faction Two in some of their "pedophile hunts". If Michael did this and thereby provided Faction Two with information on Faction ONE-controlled pedophiles, or on Faction One pedophile operations, then the trial of Michael Jackson is probably revenge for this.

Here is a repost from a year ago. I wrote about MJ, Kobe Bryant and Martha Stewart. ALL three are associated with Faction Two. However, it's my belief that the ONLY one who actually KNEW of his association with F2 was Michael.

Why do I think this:

Because of this medal:
(http://www.rumormillnews.com/pix/pic66035.jpg)


It's a MEDAL OF HONOR from the City of Vienna, called "The big golden Medal of Honor of Merits for the County of Vienna with the Star". Even though officials from Vienna have pooh-poohed the possibility of him ever having been given one, I find it highly possible that a member of Faction Two, who HAD been given such a medal, could have given HIS to MJ.

Faction TWO was started by Austrians, and at the time I was married to Gunther, Kurt Waldheim was the ranking member in Faction Two. I could easily see Waldheim giving Michael his medal for assisting F2 in breaking up a pedophile ring!

There is much more I could say and have said about MJ and Faction Two... but if I did, you would never have time to review the information from last year. Some of which explains how Thomas Sneddon very well may be brought up on charges himself as has been stated in this article by the Partisan:
Read more go
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 <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->  <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: -->  <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->
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Panel discussion about the criminal & civil case against
by Im_convincedmjalive » Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:33 pm
Quote from: Im_convincedmjalive
<!-- m -->http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/ar ... read=72818 (http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=72818)<!-- m -->

MICHAEL JACKSON IS HELPING CLEAN OUT CALIFORNIA

Posted By: Rayelan <Send E-Mail>
Date: Wednesday, 8-Jun-2005 17:44:11 This is from The Partisan:
In regards to recapitulating the corruption in California, please note posts:

ARE WE SEEING GLIMPSES OF THE WAR BEHIND THE SCENES?

<!-- m -->http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/fo ... read=56291 (http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=56291)<!-- m -->

and

THE PARTISAN WAS RIGHT ABOUT THE DALLAS FED
<!-- m -->http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/fo ... read=56302 (http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=56302)<!-- m -->

This has huge bearing on the status of California, indicating that the rats’ most powerful secret global-political asset (control of the omnipotent US secret Department of Energy Programs) has been taken away from them.

The nerve center of this control WAS in CA (Livermore, Berkeley, etc)
and undoubtedly could have been used with great effect as an unseen lever to
control all aspects of CA life by the dominator.

Curiously, NO NEWS of this change has been advertised… almost as if the CA infrastructure is left standing as a front operation to hide the true shift toward more
TX-based control. But to cut the powerbase of the CA dominator, cutting the ties
between CA and the secret “DOE” programs would be the worst possible
news for the dominator. Subsequently, all the rats no longer are
untouchable in CA… hence we see the various purifications in CA ongoing.

Arnie is playing a lead role in the clean sweep.  <!-- s:?: -->:?:<!-- s:?: -->

In this sense the Michael Jackson trial is a perfect opportunity to set up, identify, and purge hidden assets of the dominator.

During the MJ trial, very high level favors and communiqués could be created/generated with the intent of hooking positive responses from those who have long been compromised.

MJ is like a magnet and all the iron filings are bending along the lines of power…
the corrupted will bend with the corrupt network of favors and communiqués.

Even if he is convicted he will be a supreme force multiplier for doing the
same work in uncovering the corruption and degradation existing in the
federal prison systems...

...a major player in the dominator's enforcement arm.

PP

AND:

F2 MICHAEL JACKSON, KOBE BRYANT & MARTHA STEWART
Posted By: Rayelan <Send E-Mail>
Date: Tuesday, 17 August 2004, 3:51 a.m.
In Response To: ANOTHER SIGN THAT F2 IS WINNING.... (Never_Surrender)

For those who don't KNOW what the Factions are,
Here is a page which briefly explains them.

<!-- m -->http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/fo ... read=41807 (http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=41807)<!-- m -->">
WHAT DO I MEAN WHEN I TALK ABOUT THE TWO FACTIONS?

There are more things going on in the news that are probably signals to those in the know that Faction Two is winning this "behind the scenes" war with the New World Order.
To fully understand what I am about to point out, you have to have a background. I have inserted pieces of an article I wrote back in December after these facts, just in case you haven't been keeping up with all this Faction stuff.

Today the prosecutor in Michael Jackson's case went on trial.

You can read the entire story here: <!-- m -->http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,129099,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,129099,00.html)<!-- m -->

Santa Barbara County District Attorney Tom Sneddon is being investigated for ordering law enforement officers from Santa Barbara to break down the door of investigator, Bradley Miller. Miller was working for Michael Jackson's lawyer, Mark Geragos.

What Sneddon did was violate the attorny client privilige. If Jackson's current lawyer, Thomas Mesereau Jr., is successsful in proving that Sneddon knew Miller worked for Geragos, Sneddon could be thrown off the case and the case would be turned over the the Attorney General of the State of California for further prosecution.

However, this would cause a conflict of interest because Sneddon would also be under investigation by the Attorney General of California.

If Jackson wins this three day hearing, I predict the case will be thrown out. I have never believed Jackson was a pedophile. If you wonder why I believe this way. Here are my reasons:

Michael Jackson

If you remember, years ago I wrote about Operation Clydesdale, the Faction Two operation that was run about of the FBIs Division 5 in NYC. I think the Operation was made up entirely of CIA covert operatives, many of whom were posing as U.S. Attorneys working for Rudolph Guiliani. Gunther's name at that time was James Kinkaid and he was a US attorney.

Gunther actually went to Washington Law School under the name Emory Peden. Emory Peden was the banker for the CIA... otherwise known as the #3 man.

One thing Gunther told me about Michael Jackson is that he was NOT a pedophile. If Jackson had been a pedophile, Pepsi and Kentucky Fried Chicken, both F2 companies would never have hired him. Gunther told me that Michael had been horribly abused as a child. He also told me that while he and others were conducting Operation Clydesdale, they spent a lot of time with Jackson. He never told me why, but I assume he helped them in some way!

Since Faction One turns men into pedophiles so they can blackmail them and use them forever, Faction Two's pedophile hunt, is NOT very well liked by F1... and anyone who was known to help in the pedophile hunt, would be fair game for Faction One. I think Michael Jackson is being brought down because he is associated with Faction Two.

Today Kobe Bryant was in court. Prosecutors suffered another setback, losing their attempt to keep the NBA star's lawyers from telling jurors about the alleged victim's sex life.

What Kobe's lawyers want to tell the jurors is Kobe's accuser had sex with another man within hours of having sex with Kobe. The injuries she claims she suffered when Kobe "raped" her could just as well have come from this man.

The prosecutors also tried to have the case delayed "indefinitely". The judge ruled against this also and the trial is scheduled to begin August 27th.

Kobe's accuser recently filed a civil lawsuit against Kobe. Her father wrote a blistering letter to the judge which was published in a local newspaper. The father was angry over the leaks that keep coming from the court. The alledged victim's name has been leaked, as has other embarassing and potentially damaging information. It appears as if the accuser and her family will no longer cooperate with the prosecutor. If this happens, the prosecutor will probably drop the case.

Kobe Bryant

I was told that the team Kobe Bryant plays for is a Faction Two team. I was also told that Kobe made a similar pass at another hotel employee several years ago. She will be called as a witness. If my informant is correct, she will explain that Kobe was a perfect gentleman, and when he realized that she did not want to have sex with him, he backed off.

Courtney Love For years now I have been reading articles about Courtney Love and her agreement with the Illuminati Lords of Hollywood. There are certain actors and actresses, usually of zero talent, who sell their souls for the limelight. Courtney Love is one of these. Some investigators believe she killed her husband Kurt Cobain at the behest of corporate interests who promised her fame and fortune. If she has been protected by the Hollywood Illuminati, then her trial could be a sign that the Illuminati no longer controls all the judges in California.

The final piece for today is just a reminder of the extremely light sentence Martha Stewart was given. She could have been sent to prison for 4 years and they could have made her start her sentence immediately. She received 5 months in jail followed by 5 months of house arrest, and her jail sentence will not start until after the appeal.

The government charged Martha Stewart with lying. They did not charge her with insider trading. She was charged with lying to federal officials. She wasn't under oath, but evidently that doesn't matter. However, a government ink expert lied under oath at her trial. Yes, he is on trial, but the fact that the government lied at a trial for "lying" is beyond ludicrous.

If Martha Stewart is needed by Faction Two to bring K-Mart back, then I suspect someone from their ranks probably got a message to the judge as to what this case was all about. If you missed my analysis of the real reason behind the Martha Stewart prosecution, here it is:

Martha Stewart If you remember, I have posted several articles about Martha Stewart and the fact that Faction Two made her. Here is one that contains the links to the other two articles: FACTION 2 MADE MARTHA STEWART & THEY CAN BREAK HER!

To sum it up here, Faction Two got fed up with Martha's personality. When a Faction One man was insulted by her and sought revenge, Faction Two allowed her to go through this... to teach her a lesson.

They are now back on her side... they can't let her sink because K-Mart is F2's version of Walmart...

Walmart has just about destroyed the United States economy! We need to organize a boycott Walmart movement. When Walmart comes to a town, they price their things so low they drive all the small shops out of business, But once all the competition is gone, Walmart jacks up the price and screws you again. First they screw you by buying everything from overseas and putting you out of a job, then they come to town and run all the small businesses out of town, and finally, once they have all the business, they jack up prices and screw you again!!

Since Faction Two needs Martha Stewart's line in K-Mart to compete with Walmart, I suspect that Martha will be found innocent and the new and improved Martha will probably surprise all of us with the things she will do in the future... including personal appearances at many K-Mart stores and helping... actually getting down and helping, poor inner city youth.

 
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 <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: -->

Speechless you make me speechless...
Agent MJ  <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
Peace
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Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Its her on March 14, 2011, 10:39:53 PM
Quote from: Gema
@It´s her,
I understand your theory regarding the "fake" 2005 trial. Myself had that thought as well last year or earlier. MJ recreating the same scenario to prove legally that he was innocent and part of a scam when Chandler´s father accused him of child molestation, as it happened with the Arvizos; same goal-->$$ & destroy reputation.

I believe the trial was real, but I have my doubts if the characters were acting to some point. However, Michael had a fair trial as any American person is entitled to and was proclaimed innocent from all charges.
This was the real proof that MJ was always innocent, aquitted by a jury.
The tale of "MJ paid his innocence with Chandler´s case" was supossed to be burried forever, but still, some people, after the years, is not believing in Michael´s innocence and this I believe has been a big part for Michael to create his hoax death among other scenarios. To clean his name is very important, is the esscence to lave a clean legacy to his children.

@TS_comments,
I am a bit confused with the way you are ponting towards MJ hoaxing for a witness protection program. I read some of your updates and I understood that you wrote that there is no room for the witness protection program theory.

@Souza,
bay leaves have many symbolic interpretations during history. It could also point towards those symbolisms, but, how do we know that the "leaf pattern" being discussed are bay leaves on the 1st place?

@all,
The only conection I see between some police department and MJ are:
-LaToya: She is a police in Indiana.
-Murray: For some reason I think that he is more than a doctor.

Hi Gema,
What if MJ and his attorneys had settled this matter at the first level, to see if there was evidence to even go to trial? What if charges had been dismissed, rightly, for lack of evidence, nearly immediately?
 
What I was thinking, was that it would be a KILLER TROPHY <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->  for MJ, and the greatest demonstration of "wool-pulling over-the-eyes"

EVER, <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->  <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: -->

to have it all come out that the ravenous, rabid, ignorant, money, money, media vultures, salivating, to bite and devour an INNOCENT man, were

ALL THE WHILE and YET, TO THIS DAY,

circling a fictional trial, where there NEVER WAS a real story, just a pretend horror show for MJ's masterpiece movie collection. We could be headed to the best BAM EVER: vultures,

"YOU have been PUNKED"! <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->

What would nail a big beaming ( COOL!) grin for me personally, is if MJ could also prove that this AND the Murray trials were projects for UCLA Film School <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: -->  <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: -->  <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: -->

That is NOT to say I am disrespectfully mocking any fact that both of these trials could be real. But they are fair game, as I just simply don't know that truth. Yet.

All I do know is that MJ didn't get the name "Joker" from knitting bandages in his rocker.  <!-- s:P -->:P<!-- s:P -->  <!-- s:P -->:P<!-- s:P -->  I WANT to see fiendish delight on his face!!

The man IS a twisted prankster, and also a man with a higher social conscience than anyone I have ever heard of. If there is a wrong to be righted by himself, he will use every joule of brainpower to make it so, AND give the enemy the "what for".

Eradicating all the CONTINUING!! bad press and obscene books written about him, as if he had been convicted, has been a LOOOOONG time coming. Maybe THIS IS IT, that's all.

Despite the ruckus, I know some more here heard what I actually said, even if you disagree. It is NEVER wrong to question----anything. Your mind isn't simply a receiver. Sometimes, I, at least, throw things back.

I can take the Truth, even if it proves me wrong. Have not heard much yet. But I won't be embarrassed, no matter what. I would much rather be a corrected-error, than comfortably nestled in error because I NEVER checked.... <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->  <!-- s:( -->:(<!-- s:( -->
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Andrea on March 14, 2011, 10:46:05 PM
Im_convinced, thanks for the reminder of the two factions, I remember reading about them on the original thread that you provided with your post.  It actually makes me feel a little better about this whole FBI involvement in the hoax.

I admit to a mistrust of large government agencies, especially ones where a lot of information is kept from the public.  But if there is a group of people, within the Bureau, who are actually good people and don't want to see a one world government, then I think it's entirely possible that these are the ones who are helping Michael.  That is what I really really want to believe.  But I would like to understand, for myself, how they are accomplishing it without others in their realm noticing.  I just really want to believe that there are still good people in the world, who have influential positions that can actually be used for the good of everyone and not just for themselves.  It makes me nervous whenever the government is involved, even a branch of it...
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: 2good2btrue on March 14, 2011, 11:14:43 PM
Elvis met with Nixon on the 21/12/70.  He also was heavily into numerology, and for his last performance, wore a Mayan calender jumpsuit that had his date of death on it....

And is that why Harvey from TMZ recently sang or recordered "MY WAY" ???  Are we getting close to a comeback??

<!-- m -->http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/nsa/elvis/elnix.html (http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/nsa/elvis/elnix.html)<!-- m -->


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yQsIy9jsSk[/youtube]
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: looking4truth on March 14, 2011, 11:28:41 PM
Thanks for the info, Im_convincedmjalive. I remember reading some of this earlier but it's nice to get a refresher. It makes a lot of sense actually. I'm just curious what the BAM will do to this conspiracy that has been mentioned quite a bit by his family. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: RK on March 15, 2011, 12:17:37 AM
Thanks Im_convinced. I jotted this titbit down last week from somewhere in my cyber travels.
People magazine interview June 25th 1979. Country singer Merle Haggard voiced his opinion that Elvis death could have been a hoax.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 15, 2011, 01:12:32 AM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/september/funeral-scams/financial-fraud-and-funeral-scams[/url]
:shock:  :shock:  :shock:

I must confess this is shocking and quite convincing  :shock:
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 15, 2011, 01:28:54 AM
Please if anybody can post a link to those 333 pages? I think it is the time to read it again. Thank you.
All I could find was this:

In response to Freedom of Information Act requests, the Bureau has released its investigative files on the late entertainer Michael Jackson, who died earlier this year.

The records total 333 pages, divided into seven files. They detail the FBI’s investigation of a man who threatened to kill Jackson, as well as various forms of assistance to California authorities in two cases involving allegations that Jackson had abused children. It should be emphasized that none of these allegations were ever proven in court.

The files are available on the Freedom of Information Act/Privacy website, but here is a quick rundown of what they contain.

The first file—9A-LA-142276—was opened by the Los Angeles FBI office when it was asked to lead a federal case against a California man already under arrest for sending numerous threatening letters. The man—who falsely claimed to be the son of mobster John Gotti—had staked out Jackson's house and threatened to kill him, the U.S. president, and others. He was ruled incompetent to stand trial and sent to prison for two years.

The second and third files—62D-LA-162715 and 62D-LO-11779—involve the Bureau’s support of local law enforcement. In 1993, the Los Angeles and the Santa Barbara Police departments formed a task force to investigate an allegation that Jackson had molested a young boy. FBI field divisions in Los Angeles and New York—as well as Bureau overseas offices in Manila and London—provided assistance in that case. Investigators gathered public records on Jackson, interviewed a potential witness, and followed various other leads. The FBI assisted Los Angeles Police Department detectives who traveled to the Philippines to interview possible witnesses and shared news reports from London about a potential victim. The U.S. Attorney declined to pursue a federal investigation, including a possible violation of the Mann Act (transporting a minor across state lines for immoral purposes), and no charges were filed by the state.

The fourth file—95A-HQ-1148159—concerns a 1995 request by a U.S. Customs agent in Florida that the Bureau examine a VHS videotape connected with Jackson to see if it contained child pornography. Forensic specialists discovered that the tape was a “poor quality third or fourth generation recording” and informed the Customs Service of their findings.

In 2003, Jackson was charged by the state of California with molestation and other counts.
The final three files—62D-LA-236081, 252B-IR-6808, and 305B-LA-239205—detail the Bureau’s support to local law enforcement during the ensuing investigation. The first of these files describes an FBI response to a Los Angeles Police Department request to analyze computers and digital media obtained from Jackson's home under court warrant. The second involves a request by the Santa Barbara County District Attorney for help and guidance from behavioral analysts in the FBI’s Critical Incident Response Group. In the last of the three files, an FBI agent from Los Angeles traveled to New York to interview a potential witness. The agent found this individual unwilling to cooperate and closed the matter. The case went to court in 2005, and Jackson was acquitted of all charges
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: scorpionchik on March 15, 2011, 02:25:42 AM
Quote from: GINAFELICIA
Please if anybody can post a link to those 333 pages? I think it is the time to read it again. Thank you.


Here are they Gina, the release consists of 7 separate files: 1st-196 pages, 2nd-56 pages,3rd-9 pages,4th-8 pages, 5th-41pages, 6th-5pages, 7th- 18 pages= 333 pages.

http://foia2.fbi.gov/jackson_michael/9a-la-142276.pdf (http://foia2.fbi.gov/jackson_michael/9a-la-142276.pdf)

http://foia2.fbi.gov/jackson_michael/62d-la-162715.PDF (http://foia2.fbi.gov/jackson_michael/62d-la-162715.PDF)

http://foia2.fbi.gov/jackson_michael/62d-lo-11779.PDF (http://foia2.fbi.gov/jackson_michael/62d-lo-11779.PDF)

http://foia2.fbi.gov/filelink.html?file ... 148159.PDF (http://foia2.fbi.gov/filelink.html?file=jackson_michael/95a-hq-1148159.PDF)

http://foia2.fbi.gov/jackson_michael/62d-la-236081.PDF (http://foia2.fbi.gov/jackson_michael/62d-la-236081.PDF)

http://foia2.fbi.gov/filelink.html?file ... 239204.PDF (http://foia2.fbi.gov/filelink.html?file=jackson_michael/305b-la-239204.PDF)


http://foia2.fbi.gov/jackson_michael/252b-ir-6808.PDF (http://foia2.fbi.gov/jackson_michael/252b-ir-6808.PDF)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: SEHF on March 15, 2011, 02:29:55 AM
(http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/7826/eyes1mj.jpg)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: scorpionchik on March 15, 2011, 02:37:19 AM
Quote from: "SEHF"
(http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/7826/eyes1mj.jpg)


On 1.07 min speaking voice resembles to MJ, imo.Interesting video. tnk.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MJonmind on March 15, 2011, 03:42:28 AM
Thanks for the homework, scorpionchik!

Quote from: "GINAFELICIA"
Quote from: "TS_comments"
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/september/funeral-scams/financial-fraud-and-funeral-scams[/url]
:shock: :shock: :shock:

I must confess this is shocking and quite convincing :shock:
I agree!  I hope this made your day, your doubts are fading,  and that you're a little happier. :)

Its Her, I think about strange things like 70 :shock:  police officers raiding Neverland, and a video clip of MJ going into the courtroom--when passing the security he places a hand on his shoulder (in other words, I'm in control here IMO).

TS, thanks for your answer. If we had known before the confirmation of the FBI involvement with MJ, I think the members here would have received the MJ and Elvis connection more eagerly. This is a very strong reason to study the comparisons between them, both being used as agents against drug corruption and other high-level crime. But I'm sure it's all timing and is meant to be opened now.

Im_convincedmjalive, I remember reading that before. Makes me think of verses, "And there was war in heaven, Michael fighting with the dragon."  I have no way of knowing if the writer of this info is giving us the actual reality or is mislead. But it is certainly interesting. It makes me think of the Disney 2003 movie, Eloise at Christmastime (cute 6 year old girl and Julie Andrews), there is a funny part in there about the King of Bavaria and in the end someone dresses like him, and Eloise's spying abilities enables the authorities to capture crooks wanted in 3 states for forgery, fraud and extortion. (Clues in movies!)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MJonmind on March 15, 2011, 03:44:34 AM
SEHF, I like your new avatar. Maybe there should be an M in place of the questionmark! :lol:
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on March 15, 2011, 03:47:09 AM
@Andrea: I believe some things aren't going to be explained to us to the fullest degree regarding the FBI's involment with Michael and how they did this. Need to KNOW basis.  ;)  I believe that in our own minds we just have to come to our own conclusions and beliefs regarding that.  @looking4truth @RK You are very welcome.

I am also adding a plausable theory regarding there being a back gate at Carolwood that Michael may have slipped out of unnoticed. See below.

Contradictions! This may help shed some light on WHY there are so many contradictions with the people (witnesses) who are involved in Murray's case surrounding the "death" of Michael.


http://www.lindahoodsigmontruth.com/page50 (http://www.lindahoodsigmontruth.com/page50)
Quote
THURSDAY, JULY 22, 2010

VERY INTERESTING NEW VIDEO

My friend, Susan, has made me aware of a video of Joe Esposito and Charlie Hodge at the hospital on the day that Elvis was pronounced "dead".  

The comments made by Joe in this tape are totally contradictory to every other account we have heard...from Joe himself and everyone else.  The accounts given by everyone involved are at odds with each other most times.

Joe says that Elvis was found on the bed and that he had just gone upstairs  to talk to him about something and found him not breathing.  

Then again, sometimes, he says that he thought he heard him take a breath and that they attempted to resuscitate him until the ambulance arrived.  Then again, many times he has stated that rigor mortis had set in.  This is spoken to explain why Elvis in the coffin looked different than the Elvis we knew at that time...his nose was flatter.

Then we have the ambulance EMT's attempting resuscitation.  They were joined by Dr. Nick who continued those efforts on the ride to the hospital and then, lastly, the efforts were continued at the hospital.  Rigor mortis????

I want to emphasize that I respect Joe and that I do understand all that he has been through and how loyal he has always been to Elvis/Jesse.  It took a long time for me to reach the decision to place the film of him on the Geraldo show in which he spoke "...and that's how Elvis feels about this situation"  on YouTube and on my site.  Same with the footage of him on Larry King with Gail regarding the pool house door photo.  

I do have Elvis/Jesse's carte blanche permission to share that which I want to on my site.  But, should anything on my site be displeasing to him, I will remove it immediately.

I appreciate so much that Susan shared this video with me.  I had heard that Joe made this statement, but this is the first time that I have seen and heard this myself.

That all being said, please do view it with an open mind.

The owner of this video is tcbhome01 . My sincere thanks to this person for making this available for myself and others to see.
[youtube:2szhix41]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44yJsVt2p1g&feature=player_embedded[/youtube:2szhix41]
Quote
FRIDAY, AUGUST 6, 2010

 ELVIS  An American Legend October 18, 1995...cover shown below:
(http://tiptopwebsite.com/photos4/lindahoodsigmoncom/coverelvisanamericanlegend.jpg)
Within this publication there is an article titled 50 facts about Elvis.

One of these facts has me thinking Hmmmm!??
(http://tiptopwebsite.com/photos4/lindahoodsigmoncom/ElvisleinonGracelandtoPPApril1977.jpg)

Here is the full first page of this article:
(http://tiptopwebsite.com/photos4/lindahoodsigmoncom/fullpageof50factsaboutelvis.jpg)
Also, something of less importance but interesting...this is something that most of us already knew, but it bears repeating with August 16, 1977 in mind:
(http://tiptopwebsite.com/photos4/lindahoodsigmoncom/ElvisbackwayfromGraceland.jpg)
Quote
THURSDAY, JANUARY 13, 2011

Ron Collamore, E-mailed me earlier this week to share an offer he received from the Richard Nixon Foundation.  The offer is for the sale of a newly released edition of the book titled "The Day Elvis Met Nixon".  This is a wonderful book which I loved.  

This is the first time that I have heard of this book being for sale since many, many years ago when it was originally published.  It is being released now on the anniversary of Elvis's 76th (January 8) and President Nixon's 98th (January 9) birthdays.

I have previously devoted a page of my web site to this book and the letter which President Nixon wrote regarding the book just a few days before he passed away.  If you have missed visiting this page, here is the page title and the link:

Perhaps President Nixon knew that Elvis was still here in 1994
 
http://lindahoodsigmontruth.com/page17 (http://lindahoodsigmontruth.com/page17)
 
Below is an excerpt from my article on that page:
The statement below is "It remains to be seen, however, whether the author of ......will be resourceful enough to be able to arrange for Elvis to appear at a book signing."

(http://tiptopwebsite.com/photos4/lindahoodsigmoncom/Presidentnixonletterforbook.jpg)
(http://store.nixonfoundation.org/files/2011/01/blah3.png)
(http://gallery.mailchimp.com/1b467fe3b2c9cbc8c7ded8810/images/ShowImage.1.jpg)The Day Elvis Met Nixon, White House aide Bud Krogh's first hand account of Elvis Presley's historic meeting with President Nixon, has just been published by the Richard Nixon Foundation and is now available online!
Released on the anniversary of Elvis's 76th (January 8) and President Nixon's 98th (January 9) birthdays, the book is a trove of rare photos, original documents, and anecdotes from the December 21, 1970 encounter presented in a fun and interactive way for readers of all ages.
I have a theory regarding Pearl and if I compare her to Gail Brewer-Giorgio who wrote the book Is Elvis Alive? Pearl is referencing it in her twitlonger post as that is the book that Michael read and copied his "death hoax" from...lol

If she really understood how Elvis/Jesse feels about Gail now I don't think Pearl would be saying he read and copied his hoax from that book.
Quote
On Saturday 12th March 2011, @Pearljr said: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/98akss (http://www.twitlonger.com/show/98akss)

I didn't want to go here, but . . .

There's nothing new here, some believe that MJ died on June 25, 2009 and that's that!!! Nothing will sway them one way or another. If MJ did a death hoax, he most certainly would not tell Majestik, he is too easily swayed by women to keep a secret as big as that quiet.

The supposed Majestik Message promoted by the most hated MJ fan, Taaj Malik, is just a part of what she does. Create division so she can be on top. She is nothing to me, but someone people should be very wary of.

Nowhere is my name mentioned nor the name of our documentary. But since receiving so many emails regarding Majestik's Message to the fans--seemingly aimed at our company, I had to respond.

Elvis had the same death hoax and MJ studied the book "Is Elvis Alive?" to the tee and copied it. Like LMP said on Oprah "play after play after play was just like my father's". Not a coincidence but something planned by MJ himself. I didn't create any of the clues, we, the death hoax community, have discovered hundreds of clues why we beLIEve Michael Jackson faked his death.

I'm a reporter and the Michael Jackson death hoax is simply another side of the story that we, at Elbow Grease Productions, decided was worth telling.

Tell everyone not one clue was rejected in that slash and burn note. There are only words based on the arrogance of ignorance and not knowing Michael Joe Jackson. MJ would L.O.V.E. a death hoax and be offended that his stardom was not big enough to create one; that's A REASON why I believe he did it, and for several other bigger reasons to lengthy to explain here. That's why I wrote a 115,000 word EmovieBook, "Pseudocide Did Michael Jackson Fake His Death To Save His Life?" to explain in detail.

The clues are still the clues. Now if we are wrong, show us where and how, but nothing like that, just key words that push people's emotional buttons and that is what Taaj, or whatever her name is, is excellent at.

Dah, of course, if MJ did a death hoax, then the kids would know, so fooey on that plea to create more division among MJ fans and ignite a hateful environment.

MJ wrote and released a note stating "See You In July 2011" and that's what I aim to do and promote "Alive! Is Michael Jackson Really Dead" and every other thing in the death hoax, which is numerous, abundant and quite frankly, fun at times, like the 5 Alive Do Do Bird with a party favor in his mouth on Blanket's birthday this year.

Keep Michaeling and please support the documentary "Alive! Is Michael Jackson Really Dead?" This keeps MJ ALIVE and will keep his legacy vibrant. Taaj doesn't understand how the industry works, she only understands slash and burn tactics--her specialty.
This information below comes from a book called EXTRAORDINARY CARE. Anything sound familiar? Like how long the Dr. was performing CPR on Elvis...hmmm could explain WHY Murray said he performed CPR for so long on Michael.
Quote
Below you will see the covers and several pages from a book titled EXTRAORDINARY CARE.  This book was copyrighted by THE AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION in 1986.  I purchased it back around 1990.  I had not thought to put it on here until today.  It is pretty fascinating.

As you will see on the front cover and the back cover, Elvis is featured with Dr. Nick giving an interview.  I do not recommend this book because the very first page is about Elvis and drugs is very unfair and unkind.  I only bought this book because of the two pages of photos which you will see below.

It is an uncanny "coincidence" that in 1986 (several years before Gail Brewer-Giorgio brought this photo to the public's attention) the photo of Elvis (?) with Muhammad Ali appears on a page facing the photo of Elvis and Dr. Nick.  Also, another interesting "coincidence" is that, on the same page with Elvis is a photo of and a quote from Howard Hughes's Dr.   Perhaps this was one of God's little miracles of synchronicity rather than a "coincidence".  Remember that Elvis believed and said that "There are no coincidences.  Everything has a meaning."  I, too, firmly believe this.

Also, below is a copy of an excerpt from Dr. Nick's interview with the author detailing some of the happenings on August 16, 1977.  The most startling thing is Dr. Nick's statement that he did CPR on Elvis for 45 minutes.  Recall, please, that Joe said that rigor mortis had already set in when he saw him in the bathroom.  Amazing contradictions, aren't they!?

Amazing that Elvis, Muhammad Ali and Howard Hughes are all featured on these two pages facing each other in the book.
(http://tiptopwebsite.com/photos4/lindahoodsigmoncom/DrNickCPR.%20Nick%20CPR%20in%20Extraordinary%20care.jpg)
So I am not going to post every picture on that page but if anyone is interested there is alot of information on Linda's site that will help to explain some things if you believe in the theory that Michael paralleled alot of his "death" with Elvis' "death". In fact you might want to see the pictures on that page because when they are posted here alot of the text is cut off.

viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310373#p310373 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=310373#p310373)
http://lindahoodsigmontruth.com/page38 (http://lindahoodsigmontruth.com/page38)
Quote
There are more similarities than not when comparing the deaths. The link above is to a page specifically regarding Elvis' death report and autopsy.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Its her on March 15, 2011, 03:54:54 AM
Quote from: TS_comments
Quote from: MJhunny
i'm having a hard time with some things
 if FBI are involved and MJ's in WPP then why

a)have Murray in the mix at all
b) leave clues, would the FBI agree to this?
c) would the FBI bother with numerology, or let MJ bother with it?


I never said WPP, others are saying that though.  FBI is involved with much more than just WPP.

The Elvis parallels here are also interesting and informative.  Elvis had governement help, and he did leave clues including numerology.  But he decided not to go into WPP, because it would mean NO more contact with family or friends.  Here is a little on that: http://www.lindahoodsigmontruth.com/page40 (http://www.lindahoodsigmontruth.com/page40)

As far as the numerology, I will discuss that further in another comment reply soon.


I have heard of persons in WPP who eventually opted out, went back to their former life, but it is usually always a permanent change to the new life. Michael Jackson could never  <!-- s:cry: -->:cry:<!-- s:cry: --> come back, from protection. MJ, from at least October 2009, promised us a BAM! <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->

Some have asked if MJ is working for the FBI as an agent or if the FBI is working for him.

YOU said, right after your "Elvis parallels" statement, that Elvis had help; i.e., they were helping Elvis. The link paints Elvis in an official capacity of some sort WITH the DEA, yet his badge has no number on it. (So sorry, Elvis, but the president cannot cause anyone to be enlisted anywhere, especially, in Federal Law Enforcement. There may be a genuine Certificate of Merit for his appreciated, Officially Recognized, real assistance, but the rest IS honorary. Enlisted get numbered badges.)

One thing I know about FBI, is, if you are hired in official enlisted capacity, you are given an office, a badge, a gun, and a vehicle. All Law Enforcement Badges are numbered, even those of undercover agents. As enamored as MJ was of the idea of the Police Force, and their pretty uniforms, and cadence together, I CAN'T see MJ accepting a loaded weapon to use for any reason. But...what do I know?

For a long time he was JW, and old training dies hard. They had a rule about enlistment in ANY military service, which included police. Of course, they forbade higher education (College), too, which (I think) was simply too  backwards to take seriously, for someone with his mind. College? Thumbs way up. A service revolver? Heck, NO.

But, there is still a way to work with the FBI, if you have a case. I don't know how exactly this was done, because it is a secret to this day, but I have a friend who worked with three agents to take a certain dangerous foul person, down, and even though I saw my friend every other day, I NEVER knew about any of it until the guy had been convicted and sentenced and put away!!

To this day, I don't know who it was; I never knew about any sting operation or however they did this, no trial or anything. He will not tell me anything. I didn't believe him, so I asked where his gun and badge were. He said he was not FBI---just helping them to break their case.

He wouldn't even tell me how he even happened to meet up with FBI, to come to be doing this!---but, as in MJ's case, my friend and his best friend are in that rare group of folks who use more of their brain than the rest of people---very high I.Q.s ; something foreign governments would kill for. (and I don't doubt that the U.S. gov. would be the same, except for the fact that the lawlessness, arrogance and just plain NWO dumbing down of school children these last 100+ years has made the pool of such geniuses impossible to easily find...)

My genius friend worked and spoke with tons of people daily. I think he heard something, knew IMMEDIATELY what it was and contacted the FBI. But I don't really know. He did tell me it took months to accomplish. This sounds, to me, like what MJ could have been involved with.

You said the FBI is involved with more than WPP, and to that, I would say WAY more. In fact, I have a theory, if anyone has time. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> 

I haven't decided yet, whether all or some of the child molestation rhetoric and actual criminal charges were real or fabricated to provide MJ with a "cover", but, to be politic, I will pretend that all that was real and this just COINCIDENTALLY <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->  made MJ very visible as someone who...maaaaaybe might be interested in child trafficking...

We already know that everyone and their brother hits on wealthy people all the time for money, but THESE bastards are particularly helpful, providing a real and discreet service for the man with discriminating tastes and lots of money.

I have seen parents put action porno pix of their OWN children on a popular list "for a good time", and I KNOW I've only seen the tip of this filthy, rotten iceberg...

MJ, was a very high profile persona, rumored to have a taste for young boys---IN FACT, after his death, certain pedophiles campaigned to make MJ the poster boy for Nambla.This thought would attract every trafficker in the world to get in on a piece of his wealth. Suppose some creep solicited him and he contacted the FBI...

MJ could have been taking down pedophile traffickers for years! I NEVER bought the stories that he cancelled concerts because he had "a fainting spell" or was ill from drugs, and I posted this a few times before: We all KNOW MJ works a show to the end if he's throwing up, back injury, dying.

We have SEEN him, exhausted, dance like he's got The Red Shoes on, for another hour. He doesn't stop a show; he doesn't cancel shows(never mind that he did!!! He may have been extorted into it.)---the show must go on!

Yes he had cancelled shows and came on TV apologizing for "his weakness" so people wouldn't hate him, so people would try to have a heart for him, forgive him. I am convinced the only time he would cancel a show would be if the fans had been threatened in some way.

TPTB threatening to massacre a hundred thousand, here and there, in some random shows. If that was a show YOU had tickets for, MJ most probably saved YOUR LIFE that day. <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o -->

NO lie.

He would NEVER scare us by telling us the reason. We would never know this---he's NOT going to glorify evil. He just keeps the secret, and heroicly PROTECTS... <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->

But they must have figured out that it was MJ working undercover, when he actually WAS NEVER into sex with kids, but, doing stings for the Law. This child trafficking network is global and well connected. As parts of the evil were taken down, word must have gotten around that MJ was NOT actually pedophile, but police. Not a Black heart, but a Black NARK. <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> 

They began terrorizing him at his job, threatening to break him at the bank, smother his creativity in future endeavors, and physically harm his fans. BESIDES trafficking children. What is he to do?

Go under further. Underground. DEAD.

"Back" mentioned something, or linked to something once, about MJ coming back to us as a BLACK KNIGHT. I would say, if he has gone that far down, to actually stand in as a fake customer and see these child sex slaves, in order to bust their captors, he must be bawling all the time. Every single day just to wash his eyes of the tragedies.

But it makes sense. omg I believe he would do  <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> ANYTHING <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: -->  for children. Even subject himself to deep, seething hatred---from strangers, outside, those sheep believing the media lies that he's dirty, and, worse, from inside, coming from his own pure heart, just from what he's seen: horror upon horror which can't ever be undone, even though he's ended the perpetrators' actions...

Can anyone confirm or deny that this could be what Back may have meant about that Black Knight business? or do you think he was just being all mysterious and showbizzy, describing MJ's new STAGE look? 

It is not this darkly serious, is it?

I know MJ is hero material. It is a golden thread through all he says, sings, writes or does. <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->  "He's the only one with the heart and power to do this", BJ said. One only needs heart and power for a great sacrificial leap. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->

I also know he wanted to be Knighted, once. But there's a [size=14ptHUGE [/size]difference in being "One Hot Knight" , dressed like a wraith or The Batman, in his show...and a real one endangering his own real life...Can anyone say if MJ isn't doing anything remotely this dangerous and psychologically draining?

This is serious heavy stuff. TOO serious for any ARG. It makes aLOT of sense, now, in light of this theory, that his usual bodyguards are no longer with him. The stated reason was, I think, that Miko and others would be recognized and lead people to MJ.
 
But, no... The Man needs ARMED backup, now. omg. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->

When will he ever be safe, then?   
Tell me it is not this serious. <!-- s:| -->:|<!-- s:| -->
[/b]
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on March 15, 2011, 04:03:38 AM
Quote from: "MJonmind"
Im_convincedmjalive, I remember reading that before. Makes me think of verses, "And there was war in heaven, Michael fighting with the dragon."  I have no way of knowing if the writer of this info is giving us the actual reality or is mislead. But it is certainly interesting. It makes me think of the Disney 2003 movie, Eloise at Christmastime (cute 6 year old girl and Julie Andrews), there is a funny part in there about the King of Bavaria and in the end someone dresses like him, and Eloise's spying abilities enables the authorities to capture crooks wanted in 3 states for forgery, fraud and extortion. (Clues in movies!)
Quote
Here is the first article I ever wrote about the Factions:

FACTION TWO -- THE ABWEHR -- KNIGHTS TEMPLARS
Posted By: Rayelan -

Date: Sunday, 10 September 2000, 5:19 p.m. - An Explanation Faction Two

To really understand where my ex-husband is coming from, when he told me about Faction Two, you need to know a little about him, who he was, where he came from and what he knew.

You might also want to see what he looks like. This is part of the only video interview that is in the public domain. The producers of ABC and Geraldo Rivera's canceled TV program, Now It Can Be Told also have taped interviews of Gunther, but they have never released them.

Admiral Gunther K. Russbacher was a 30 plus year veteran of the CIA and the Office of Naval Intelligence. He was also the co-founder of the print edition of Rumor Mill News.

That is her husband she is talking about here. I took this info from the text I posted above. If you go to that website Rumor Mill News there is alot of information on there that explains who her husband is/was, who she is and what has happened to both of them over the years. There is alot of information on there that is worth reading to gain better insight on the inner workings of undercover work and other points of interest.
http://www.rumormillnews.com/ (http://www.rumormillnews.com/)

http://www.rumormillnews.com/RMN%20FOUN ... AYELAN.htm (http://www.rumormillnews.com/RMN%20FOUNDERS%20GUNTHER%20AND%20RAYELAN.htm)

Who Are Gunther and Rayelan Russbacher?
(http://www.rumormillnews.com//images/GUNTHER%20AND%20RAYELAN%20TI%20FCI.jpg)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MJhasSpoken on March 15, 2011, 04:59:43 AM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Quote from: "MJonmind"
So how does the FBI fit with this?
Quote
by TS » Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:30 am

 

As ignisaeternus just pointed out: "... it has been mentioned numerous times that the 333 pages were released o 12/21 (2009)- which of course is also time of the 911 call." {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=275#p313434}.  Actually, they were released on 12-22-09; but 12-21 was the date that the 333 pages were supposed to be released, and it got delayed one day because of bad weather.

Anyway, some have questioned if the FBI would be involved in the numerology; and as I already mentioned, Elvis had governement help and also used numerology (including planning the death date to fit the numerology).  So regardless of why, the fact is that they can include numerology--and in fact they already have done so with Elvis, so why not with MJ?

Anyone who has read the numerology posts already knows that 111 is the most fundamental number of the MJ hoax {see especially Update #4, http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=125&t=7010}.  Along with almost all of the hoax numbers, 333 also divides evenly by 111.  The chance of this being a coincidence is about 1 in 111.

However, planning to release these exact same 333 pages on 12-21, what are the odds that this was ALSO a coincidence?  With 365 days in a year, it would be 1 chance in 365.  Of course someone could say that there are more opportunities for a coincidence during the year, such as 11-5 (V); however, that date would not divide evenly by 111; and 1221 does divide evenly by 111.  Also, 12:21 is the time of the 911 call.  So there is no day of the year which would fit better to release the 333 pages, than on 12-21 (also the date of TIAI Revealed  :) ).

Now what are the odds that the pages were 333 by coincidence, AND the planned release was 12-21 by coincidence?  Multiply the two odds: 111 x 365 = one chance in 40,515 that this was just a coincidence.  And if it's not a coincidence, then we know that the FBI are helping with the hoax--and we also know that they are including numerology, just like with Elvis.

Finally, what are the odds that the FBI funeral article with the "Thriller" graveyard would be dated on the anniversary of the MJ burial, just by coincidence--in addition to the above "coincidences" (333 & 12-21), and all the other "coincidences" (FBI cap, other numerology, etc)?

http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/september/funeral-scams/financial-fraud-and-funeral-scams

 :lol:  you can't get everything perfect.  :lol: (in bold)

@ AllinGoodTime I was thinking the same but it doesn't have to be about doctors it could be other things like corruption of the courts or something. But I think when MJ is done with giving the info the FBI want then he will comeback...I'm guessing. So I don't think that the FBI has what they need to stamp out corruption or whatever the case may be. I think and again I'm guessing, that it will probably come out in court.
Soon we have the trial coming up...can't wait.

On the FBI file
It’s a morbid tale involving phony death certificates, staged funerals with paid actors, and coffins buried with no bodies, but in the end, it’s just a financial fraud scheme like thousands of others we investigate every year.
Seems like MJ to me.  8-)

Also since MJ was getting help from the FBI just like Elvis, Elvis still hasn't come back...just saying...I'm not saying he won't...but I'm saying why didn't Elvis come back?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Ijustcantstoplovingu on March 15, 2011, 06:50:24 AM
Joe says that Elvis was found on the bed and that he had just gone upstairs to talk to him about something and found him not breathing.   :shock:   since 1977 when Elvis died I always believed/remembered that he died in the bathroom!  :shock:   He was found on the bed not breathing like MJ WOW  :shock:   just the same!

Confirmed in the above video also  ;)

Sorry to go a bit of topic but Im like  :shock:   I never knew that Im sure it wasnt reported that way, I can remember the day Elvis died like yesterday and where I was and what I was doing.   :?

Sorry guys gone a bit off topic but Im like  :shock:

There is indeed much more to all this than it first appears.

Thank you TS for being here and leading us in the right direction.

 :)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: trustno1 on March 15, 2011, 06:55:25 AM
The myth that people think they know as fact, i.e. Elvis died in the bathroom holding a cheeseburger or whatever they think, is another example of something almost passing into folklore because it's been joked about or parodied so much.  The truth always gets lost in the hearsay.  Now I'm off-topic too ;) Thanks for the guidance TS.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 15, 2011, 06:56:48 AM
Quote from: "Its her"
I know MJ is hero material. It is a golden thread through all he says, sings, writes or does. 8-)  "He's the only one with the heart and power to do this", BJ said. One only needs heart and power for a great sacrificial leap. :?


Of course he is.
I must have missed when BJ said that  :?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: paula-c on March 15, 2011, 09:10:46 AM
Quote
The comments made by Joe in this tape are totally contradictory to every other account we have heard...from Joe himself and everyone else. The accounts given by everyone involved are at odds with each other most times.

Joe says that Elvis was found on the bed and that he had just gone upstairs to talk to him about something and found him not breathing.


Quote
Ijustcantstoplovingu wrote:

Joe says that Elvis was found on the bed and that he had just gone upstairs to talk to him about something and found him not breathing.  since 1977 when Elvis died I always believed/remembered that he died in the bathroom!  He was found on the bed not breathing like MJ WOW  just the same!

Confirmed in the above video also  

Sorry to go a bit of topic but Im like  I never knew that Im sure it wasnt reported that way, I can remember the day Elvis died like yesterday and where I was and what I was doing.  

Sorry guys gone a bit off topic but Im like  

There is indeed much more to all this than it first appears.

Thank you TS for being here and leading us in the right direction.



I also believed that Elvis was found in the bathroom
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Mish1981 on March 15, 2011, 09:37:04 AM
I've always thought that there were similarities between Elvis and Mj's "death", in fact on the original forum I wrote a post about it and pointed out the similarities that I had found. Although it wasn't in depth, I was disappointed when no one responded to it. It looks like I was on the right track this whole time.  :D
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: fordtocarr on March 15, 2011, 09:45:13 AM
Quote from: "ignisaeternus"
Quote from: "fordtocarr"
Great post.  Great thinking and reasoning.  Can you tie in the "we have 4 years"? (is that right?)

Hm.. Well, I think Jehova Witness teaching still influenced Michael's spirituality very much (no matter what his non-religious activties were).  According to their teachings, the end of the world does not mean destruction, but deliverance from those who are evil (and I know this because my husband started to have Bible Study every week with a Jehova's Witness).  In that- helping uncover corruption that endangers children on the micro level and (as pointed out by TS can reach up so high it endagners our national security) would fit in with - having 4 years to get it right.  That part, of course, again, was influenced my Michael's religious views.  Now, I know that the JW do not pick 2012- but Michael might have seen this as the dates he had in mind.  Or maybe, 12-21-12 is more of a symblic date (signifying the end) which was then tied in in a more concrete manner into the clues of TII and the hoax.  The four years, using inclusive reckoning, would extend from 2009 until 2012 (counting 2009 as year one- and 2012 as year 4)- as previously discussed.

Ohhh, you know I'd have to respond to the Witness comments :)))  It's great for your hubby to be studying the Bible, now matter who with, because it is in doing that that we reach what we can discover as the truth we, individually, can accept.  I did that with MANY religions.  
I also still hear the Witnesses teachings in the songs.  Most recently,Jackie's new single.  It is about changing the world and prejudice.  Jackie said on the online radio show last night, that he wanted some of Michael's words on the single to give reference to these ideas as they are things Michael stood for.  He did add Michael's speaking.  These are things Michael always sang about.  They are JW teachings from the Bible.  You can especially hear these in Can You Feel It.  I wonder about various things though, as when Michael left the organization, he didn't do it because he no longer believed the teachings.  That is why he continued to use his medium to preach these ideals.  But, Witnesses are not into numerology.  So, I don't really put a lot into that, with regards to Witnesses.  But, I DO think that Michael is following the Elvis "script" and therefore, may have used numbers to either give clues or make it a copycat.  This to me, don't give a reason for "4 years" though.  Maybe it will be the end of Obama's first (maybe only)term.  Maybe as he's the first black president, Michael, with the anti-prejudice ideals, don't want Obama to come out as a presidential failure, and the media run with that.  Just an idea.

Anyway- this is just one theorie (as in hyothesis, not as in proven theorie) that's been swirling around in my mind.  

Maybe, to be thorough, we should also look at why the FBI CANNOT be involved- to make sure we have a solid case for involvment.  I already stated that I think they are.  For arguments sake, I am not that great at numerology, so I would need some solid proof to show how it ties in (beyond the 33, the 12-21 release date of the file)- I can see that one could argue, FBI protection or involvment would make aderence to numerology more difficult.  (even though, I am sure that if this went on for years, MJ had established some ammount of creative freedom in how he would pull this off).

I'm not sure yet about the FBI, but it's looking like involvement, especially to overcome some legalities with court and all.  But, it don't have to be that way either.  A lot of this is absorbed on faith for me.  There are a lot of theories on here, and perhaps, trying hard enough, we could make any of them work.  But, why?  Either he'll come back and explain and we'll be right.  Or he won't come back, and we'll still be right, he'll just have decided not to return for his own reasons.  We just won't know what they are.  But, he won't be dead in any reason.  I can live without knowing as long as I believe he's alive.  And I do.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: suspicious mind on March 15, 2011, 09:49:33 AM
Quote from: "paula-c"
Quote
The comments made by Joe in this tape are totally contradictory to every other account we have heard...from Joe himself and everyone else. The accounts given by everyone involved are at odds with each other most times.

Joe says that Elvis was found on the bed and that he had just gone upstairs to talk to him about something and found him not breathing.


Quote
Ijustcantstoplovingu wrote:

Joe says that Elvis was found on the bed and that he had just gone upstairs to talk to him about something and found him not breathing.  since 1977 when Elvis died I always believed/remembered that he died in the bathroom!  He was found on the bed not breathing like MJ WOW  just the same!


i think maybe the bathroom factor is supposed to tie in with the drug use and too many peanut butter and banana sandwiches  ;)  . i remember reading some alledge autopsy detail of an impacted bowel. and the very last line in the book was the two guys talking and at the same time telling each other that elvis had cancer.Confirmed in the above video also  

Sorry to go a bit of topic but Im like  I never knew that Im sure it wasnt reported that way, I can remember the day Elvis died like yesterday and where I was and what I was doing.  

Sorry guys gone a bit off topic but Im like  

There is indeed much more to all this than it first appears.

Thank you TS for being here and leading us in the right direction.

I also believed that Elvis was found in the bathroom


sorry , got my post in the wrong place. don't know how to fix it so i highlighted it :oops:
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: AnaMarcia on March 15, 2011, 09:53:46 AM
Seems we're finding the light. Thanks TS, I love when you give us important answers.
I've always believed that the FBI help Michael, but I do not think that is a witness protection program, but only an agreement between them.
If it is, Michael can return with the same identity and security, it's right?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: PureLove on March 15, 2011, 10:00:36 AM
Quote from: "AnaMarcia"
Seems we're finding the light. Thanks TS, I love when you give us important answers.
I've always believed that the FBI help Michael, but I do not think that is a witness protection program, but only an agreement between them.
If it is, Michael can return with the same identity and security, it's right?

Agree and IF Michael is some kind of secret agent in FBI, he doesn't need WPP.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: all4loveandbelieve on March 15, 2011, 10:32:00 AM
Michael is not a secret agent. More as the FBI is protecting him in some sort of way. But who know with Michael. If Elvis was in the CIA , Michael can be in the FBI.. Nah.. I don't see Michael as an FBI agent. he is too delicate for that.  Elvis was more built, and he also was in the army which is a plus.  This is my opinion. Blessings.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: SoldierofLOVE on March 15, 2011, 11:31:25 AM
ImConvinced:  The Faction 2 info is something I've held onto for awhile and it's certainly important to know about.  It could be why there's thought that people like Charlie Sheen know about MJ's hoax.  They may or may not, but the connection could be because of membership in Faction 2.   There are a couple more things I'd like to say about the FBI and/or Faction 2 connection but I fear it'll be ahead of the info that's supposed to be revealed right now...  


There are ways to be involved with or learn about the Bureau without being an agent through Community Partnerships and Community Academies.


Quote
Want to find out first hand how the FBI works? Hear how the Bureau tracks down spies and terrorists? Learn how to collect and preserve evidence? See what it is like to fire a weapon and put yourself in the shoes of a Special Agent making a split-second, life-or-death decision?

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Who attends? Business, civic, and religious leaders, each nominated by a Bureau employee or a previous Academy graduate. You must be at least 21 years old (with no prior felony convictions) and must live and work in the area covered by the field office sponsoring the academy.

Who teaches? Special Agents in Charge of that field office, their senior managers and senior agent experts.

For how long? Classes generally meet 10 times (eight on weeknights and two on Saturday) for three hours each session. Each session has around 20-30 students.

The curriculum? Fascinating!

■Practical problems involving evidence collection and preservation.
■FBI jurisdiction and congressional oversight.
■Structure and operation of FBI field offices and satellite agencies.
■Fingerprint, forensic, technology, training, and other services
■Policies and issues: ethics, discipline, communications, drug enforcement, civil rights, and future criminal trends.
■Firearms training.

Community Partnerships
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/partnerships_and_outreach/community_outreach/comm_partners
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 15, 2011, 03:10:12 PM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Quote from: "MJhunny"
i'm having a hard time with some things
 if FBI are involved and MJ's in WPP then why a)have Murray in the mix at all
                                                                   b) leave clues, would the FBI agree to this?
                                                                    c) would the FBI bother with numerology, or let
                                                                        MJ bother with it?

I never said WPP, others are saying that though.  FBI is involved with much more than just WPP.


????????????? This "much more" is the answer to all our questions.......
MJ-FBI-end of the world????????? nooooooooooo, too much science -fiction
I can understand protection for MJ, but you make it sound like they have a bigger plan together, MJ and FBI.....don't know what to think
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MissG on March 15, 2011, 03:20:07 PM
Wow. Finally I finished to read  :) So much refreshing info!

TMZ posted a video with the title: Lindsay Judge claims TMZ is CIA
http://www.tmz.com/videos/ (http://www.tmz.com/videos/)

Back to topic; if MJ was framed and asked for help and protection, I believe that he was entitled to it as any citizen would.

Did MJ know too much?. What about the mafia connections?, what about the Malniks?
There are post in this forum giving a good resume on it.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: paula-c on March 15, 2011, 03:20:30 PM
Quote
GINAFELICIA » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:10 pm

TS_comments wrote:
MJhunny wrote:
i'm having a hard time with some things
if FBI are involved and MJ's in WPP then why a)have Murray in the mix at all
b) leave clues, would the FBI agree to this?
c) would the FBI bother with numerology, or let
MJ bother with it?

I never said WPP, others are saying that though. FBI is involved with much more than just WPP.


????????????? This "much more" is the answer to all our questions.......
MJ-FBI-end of the world????????? nooooooooooo, too much science -fiction
I can understand protection for MJ, but you make it sound like they have a bigger plan together, MJ and FBI.....don't know what to think


I agree
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: TS_comments on March 15, 2011, 09:33:06 PM
Quote from: "MJhasSpoken"
... Also since MJ was getting help from the FBI just like Elvis, Elvis still hasn't come back...just saying...I'm not saying he won't...but I'm saying why didn't Elvis come back?

Simple: when Elvis planned his "death", he had no plans to ever come back.  But with MJ, he was planning his come back for years before his "death".
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: PureLove on March 15, 2011, 09:39:58 PM
TS, I would be so much appreciated if you could answer my question about the numerology. I might have got it all wrong though. I'm confused about that. Thank you so much.

Quote from: "PureLove"
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Anyway, some have questioned if the FBI would be involved in the numerology; and as I already mentioned, Elvis had governement help and also used numerology (including planning the death date to fit the numerology). So regardless of why, the fact is that they can include numerology--and in fact they already have done so with Elvis, so why not with MJ?

One thing that I am sure of with this hoax. THERE IS NO COINCIDENCE! I'm a little bit confused with this TS. Do you mean that FBI arranged the dates of the funeral and the memorial which perfectly fits with making 666 upside down to 999? Michael didn't arrange the dates and the numerology of the hoax? Then, FBI is giving us a message about illuminati?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: looking4truth on March 15, 2011, 09:43:25 PM
This is sorta random but didn't Marlon wear a FBI cap on that Jacksons reality show? I wonder if he has some connection to the FBI. I've seen other people wear this hat so it could just be a coincidence but it's hard for me to believe that anything is exactly the way it appears.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: TS_comments on March 15, 2011, 09:47:11 PM
Quote from: "GINAFELICIA"
Quote from: "TS_comments"

I never said WPP, others are saying that though.  FBI is involved with much more than just WPP.

????????????? This "much more" is the answer to all our questions.......
MJ-FBI-end of the world????????? nooooooooooo, too much science -fiction
I can understand protection for MJ, but you make it sound like they have a bigger plan together, MJ and FBI.....don't know what to think

In this context, the "much more" that I was referring to is other operations--more than just WPP.  You can read about some of the other operations on Wikipedia, as well as their own website {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fbi; http://www.fbi.gov/}.

I first pointed to the FBI, then others started saying WPP.  I responded by saying that FBI does much more than just WPP; therefore, just because the FBI is involved, does not mean that MJ is in WPP.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: ignisaeternus on March 15, 2011, 09:50:53 PM
Quote
You said the FBI is involved with more than WPP, and to that, I would say WAY more. In fact, I have a theory, if anyone has time. :)  

I haven't decided yet, whether all or some of the child molestation rhetoric and actual criminal charges were real or fabricated to provide MJ with a "cover", but, to be politic, I will pretend that all that was real and this just COINCIDENTALLY :roll:  made MJ very visible as someone who...maaaaaybe might be interested in child trafficking...

We already know that everyone and their brother hits on wealthy people all the time for money, but THESE bastards are particularly helpful, providing a real and discreet service for the man with discriminating tastes and lots of money.

I have seen parents put action porno pix of their OWN children on a popular list "for a good time", and I KNOW I've only seen the tip of this filthy, rotten iceberg...

MJ, was a very high profile persona, rumored to have a taste for young boys---IN FACT, after his death, certain pedophiles campaigned to make MJ the poster boy for Nambla.This thought would attract every trafficker in the world to get in on a piece of his wealth. Suppose some creep solicited him and he contacted the FBI...

MJ could have been taking down pedophile traffickers for years! I NEVER bought the stories that he cancelled concerts because he had "a fainting spell" or was ill from drugs, and I posted this a few times before: We all KNOW MJ works a show to the end if he's throwing up, back injury, dying.

We have SEEN him, exhausted, dance like he's got The Red Shoes on, for another hour. He doesn't stop a show; he doesn't cancel shows(never mind that he did!!! He may have been extorted into it.)---the show must go on!

Yes he had cancelled shows and came on TV apologizing for "his weakness" so people wouldn't hate him, so people would try to have a heart for him, forgive him. I am convinced the only time he would cancel a show would be if the fans had been threatened in some way.

TPTB threatening to massacre a hundred thousand, here and there, in some random shows. If that was a show YOU had tickets for, MJ most probably saved YOUR LIFE that day. :o

NO lie.

He would NEVER scare us by telling us the reason. We would never know this---he's NOT going to glorify evil. He just keeps the secret, and heroicly PROTECTS... :)

But they must have figured out that it was MJ working undercover, when he actually WAS NEVER into sex with kids, but, doing stings for the Law. This child trafficking network is global and well connected. As parts of the evil were taken down, word must have gotten around that MJ was NOT actually pedophile, but police. Not a Black heart, but a Black NARK. :shock:  

They began terrorizing him at his job, threatening to break him at the bank, smother his creativity in future endeavors, and physically harm his fans. BESIDES trafficking children. What is he to do?

Go under further. Underground. DEAD.

"Back" mentioned something, or linked to something once, about MJ coming back to us as a BLACK KNIGHT. I would say, if he has gone that far down, to actually stand in as a fake customer and see these child sex slaves, in order to bust their captors, he must be bawling all the time. Every single day just to wash his eyes of the tragedies.

But it makes sense. omg I believe he would do  :!: ANYTHING :!:  for children. Even subject himself to deep, seething hatred---from strangers, outside, those sheep believing the media lies that he's dirty, and, worse, from inside, coming from his own pure heart, just from what he's seen: horror upon horror which can't ever be undone, even though he's ended the perpetrators' actions...

Can anyone confirm or deny that this could be what Back may have meant about that Black Knight business? or do you think he was just being all mysterious and showbizzy, describing MJ's new STAGE look?  

It is not this darkly serious, is it?

I know MJ is hero material. It is a golden thread through all he says, sings, writes or does. 8-)  "He's the only one with the heart and power to do this", BJ said. One only needs heart and power for a great sacrificial leap. :?

I also know he wanted to be Knighted, once. But there's a HUGE difference in being "One Hot Knight" , dressed like a wraith or The Batman, in his show...and a real one endangering his own real life...Can anyone say if MJ isn't doing anything remotely this dangerous and psychologically draining?

This is serious heavy stuff. TOO serious for any ARG. It makes aLOT of sense, now, in light of this theory, that his usual bodyguards are no longer with him. The stated reason was, I think, that Miko and others would be recognized and lead people to MJ.
 
But, no... The Man needs ARMED backup, now. omg. :?

When will he ever be safe, then?    
Tell me it is not this serious. :|
[/color][/b]
Which is very similar to what I posted above ( a page or so up) as a theorie- I think it's highly possibly- and as always,we have hints in Michael's music (Hollywood Tonight, Do You KNow Where Your Children are). Protecting children from trafficking, pornopgraphy, prostitution, and other sexual exploitation could be one such "other" activity that Michael shared with the FBI.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: SoldierofLOVE on March 15, 2011, 09:59:20 PM
Quote
Which is very similar to what I posted above ( a page or so up) as a theorie- I think it's highly possibly- and as always,we have hints in Michael's music (Hollywood Tonight, Do You KNow Where Your Children are). Protecting children from trafficking, pornopgraphy, prostitution, and other sexual exploitation could be one such "other" activity that Michael shared with the FBI.

Right, and some of us, including me, have been saying this for months, not just on this thread.  Posts about this very thing were part of the TIAI January 2 thread too and probably long before that so it looks like we're starting to connect the many fragments of thoughts we've all had for some time... connecting the dots now for a cohesive theory as well as finding things we missed or didn't clearly understand before and that's great!...
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: ignisaeternus on March 15, 2011, 10:00:09 PM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Quote from: "MJhasSpoken"
... Also since MJ was getting help from the FBI just like Elvis, Elvis still hasn't come back...just saying...I'm not saying he won't...but I'm saying why didn't Elvis come back?

Simple: when Elvis planned his "death", he had no plans to ever come back.  But with MJ, he was planning his come back for years before his "death".

Absolutely- Elvis left no clues, per se.  Michael, on the other hand left so much- starting with the Memorial Service, Funeral, TII, and "Michael." It's all like one big treasure map with clues.  To disregard all these, would mean they are all coincidences- which we already agreed on they are not, correct?  What would be the purpose of all the clues if you want to stay "dead."  If Michael planned to stay dead- would it not be easier to have "died" from a simple heart attack and then be done with it?  I just do not see Michael leaving his children unless it was absolutely necessary.  Let's not forget their possible involvement (again: memorial, Oprah interview)- what would be the point to put them through all this if there was not hope that their Daddy was to return.
I think, Lisa did not know that her father had not passed until some time had passed- however, I think Michael had prepped his children before the event.  Remember, he knew what it did to Lisa Marie to live with the hoax of her father's death- would he really agree to put his children through this? Unless it was absolutely necessary, served a greater good, protected himself and thus them, and he planned to stun the world by coming back.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: TS_comments on March 15, 2011, 10:03:07 PM
Quote from: "PureLove"
TS, I would be so much appreciated if you could answer my question about the numerology. I might have got it all wrong though. I'm confused about that. Thank you so much.

Quote from: "PureLove"
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Anyway, some have questioned if the FBI would be involved in the numerology; and as I already mentioned, Elvis had governement help and also used numerology (including planning the death date to fit the numerology). So regardless of why, the fact is that they can include numerology--and in fact they already have done so with Elvis, so why not with MJ?

One thing that I am sure of with this hoax. THERE IS NO COINCIDENCE! I'm a little bit confused with this TS. Do you mean that FBI arranged the dates of the funeral and the memorial which perfectly fits with making 666 upside down to 999? Michael didn't arrange the dates and the numerology of the hoax? Then, FBI is giving us a message about illuminati?

Elvis planned his own death date to add up:  8 + 16 + 1977 = 2001.  This date was chosen by Elvis because of his own personal liking for the 2001 Space Odyssey film and theme song {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001:_A_Space_Odyssey_(film)}.  The government cooperated with his plans for the death date and numerology, etc.  I think you can see the MJ parallels here as well.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: PureLove on March 15, 2011, 10:04:46 PM
Currently, the FBI's top investigative priorities are:

   1. Protect the United States from terrorist attack (see counter-terrorism);
   2. Protect the United States against foreign intelligence operations and espionage (see counter-intelligence);
   3. Protect the United States against cyber-based attacks and high-technology crimes (see cyber-warfare);
   4. Combat public corruption at all levels;
   5. Protect civil rights;
   6. Combat transnational/national criminal organizations and enterprises (see organized crime);
   7. Combat major white-collar crime;
   8. Combat significant violent crime;
   9. Support federal, state, local and international partners;
  10. Upgrade technology for successful performance of the FBI's mission.

In August 2007, the top categories of lead criminal charges resulting from FBI investigations were:

   1. Bank robbery and incidental crimes (107 charges)
   2. Drugs (104 charges)
   3. Attempt and conspiracy (81 charges)
   4. Material involving sexual exploitation of minors (53 charges)
   5. Mail fraud – frauds and swindles (51 charges)
   6. Bank fraud (31 charges)
   7. Prohibition of illegal gambling businesses (22 charges)
   8. Fraud by wire, radio, or television (20 charges)
   9. Hobbs Act (Robbery and extortion affecting interstate commerce) (17 charges)
  10. Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO)-prohibited activities (17 charges)

Organization and Rank structure

The FBI is organized into five functional branches and the Office of the Director, which contains most administrative offices. Each branch is managed by an Executive Assistant Director. Each office and division within the branch is managed by an Assistant Director.

    * Office of the Director
          o Office of Congressional Affairs
          o Office of Equal Employment Opportunity Affairs
          o Office of the General Counsel
          o Office of Integrity and Compliance
          o Office of the Ombudsman
          o Office of Professional Responsibility
          o Office of Public Affairs
          o Inspection Division
          o Facilities and Logistics Services Division
          o Finance Division
          o Records Management Division
          o Resource Planning Office
          o Security Division

    * National Security Branch
          o Counterintelligence Division
          o Counterterrorism Division
          o Directorate of Intelligence
          o Weapons of Mass Destruction Directorate

    * Criminal, Cyber, Response, and Services Branch
          o Criminal Investigative Division
          o Cyber Division (Director: Gordon M Snow)
          o Critical Incident Response Group
          o Office of International Operations (Director: Joseph M. Demarest)
          o Office of Law Enforcement Coordination

    * Human Resources Branch
          o Training Division
          o Human Resources Division

    * Science and Technology Branch
          o Criminal Justice Information Services Division
          o Laboratory Division
          o Operational Technology Division
          o Special Technologies and Applications Office

    * Information and Technology Branch
          o Information Technology Operations Division
          o Office of IT Policy & Planning
          o Office of IT Program Management
          o Office of IT Systems Development
          o Office of the Chief Knowledge Officer

The following is a complete listing of the rank structure found within the FBI;

    * Probationary Agent
    * Special Agent
    * Senior Special Agent
    * Supervisory Special Agent
    * Assistant Special Agent-in-Charge (ASAC)
    * Special Agent-in-Charge (SAC)
    * Assistant Director
    * Associate Executive Assistant Director
    * Executive Assistant Director
    * Deputy Chief of Staff
    * Chief of Staff & Senior Counsel to the Director
    * Associate Deputy Director
    * Deputy Director
    * Director

Personnel

As of December 31, 2009, the FBI had a total of 33,652 employees. That includes 13,412 special agents and 20,420 support professionals, such as intelligence analysts, language specialists, scientists, information technology specialists, and other professionals.


Hiring process
In order to apply to become an FBI agent, an applicant must be between the ages of 23 and 37. However, due to the decision in Robert P. Isabella v. Department of State and Office of Personnel Management, 2008 M.S.P.B. 146, preference eligible veterans may apply after age 37. The applicant must also hold American citizenship, have a clean record, and hold a four-year bachelors degree. All FBI employees require a Top Secret (TS) security clearance, and in many instances, employees need a higher level, TS/SCI clearance. After potential special agent candidates are cleared with TS clearance... ( wow I see many TS there)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: PureLove on March 15, 2011, 10:06:23 PM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Quote from: "PureLove"
TS, I would be so much appreciated if you could answer my question about the numerology. I might have got it all wrong though. I'm confused about that. Thank you so much.

Quote from: "PureLove"
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Anyway, some have questioned if the FBI would be involved in the numerology; and as I already mentioned, Elvis had governement help and also used numerology (including planning the death date to fit the numerology). So regardless of why, the fact is that they can include numerology--and in fact they already have done so with Elvis, so why not with MJ?

One thing that I am sure of with this hoax. THERE IS NO COINCIDENCE! I'm a little bit confused with this TS. Do you mean that FBI arranged the dates of the funeral and the memorial which perfectly fits with making 666 upside down to 999? Michael didn't arrange the dates and the numerology of the hoax? Then, FBI is giving us a message about illuminati?

Elvis planned his own death date to add up:  8 + 16 + 1977 = 2001.  This date was chosen by Elvis because of his own personal liking for the 2001 Space Odyssey film and theme song {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001:_A_Space_Odyssey_(film)}.  The government cooperated with his plans for the death date and numerology, etc.  I think you can see the MJ parallels here as well.

I know Elvis MJ prallels so well TS. Thank you so much. I got my answer. God bless. :D
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: ignisaeternus on March 15, 2011, 10:08:53 PM
Probably another coincidence.. LOL :lol: (the TS in the FBI post, I mean)

Organized crime (6) ties into child pornography and trafficking.  As does violation of civil rights and violent  crimes.  And of course, we have the ever popular corruption that in itself ties to organized crime.  With Michael's international connections and travels, I have been wondering if that is another thread to be tied in...
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: PureLove on March 15, 2011, 10:13:04 PM
Quote from: "ignisaeternus"
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Quote from: "MJhasSpoken"
... Also since MJ was getting help from the FBI just like Elvis, Elvis still hasn't come back...just saying...I'm not saying he won't...but I'm saying why didn't Elvis come back?

Simple: when Elvis planned his "death", he had no plans to ever come back.  But with MJ, he was planning his come back for years before his "death".

Absolutely- Elvis left no clues, per se.  

Actually Elvis also left some clues behind like 2001 Space Odyssey film music like Michael 2040 Spaceship and also another parallel with Mj and Elvis is; both of their middle names were wrong. Michael's middle name is Joe but Joseph was used instead and also Elvis' middle name is Aron but the name written on his graveyard is Aaron. But like you wrote he didn't leave many clues behind as he didn't want to come back but Michael planned his come back long time ago like TS wrote.
:)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MJhasSpoken on March 15, 2011, 10:15:25 PM
Quote from: "ignisaeternus"
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Quote from: "MJhasSpoken"
... Also since MJ was getting help from the FBI just like Elvis, Elvis still hasn't come back...just saying...I'm not saying he won't...but I'm saying why didn't Elvis come back?

Simple: when Elvis planned his "death", he had no plans to ever come back.  But with MJ, he was planning his come back for years before his "death".

Absolutely- Elvis left no clues, per se.  Michael, on the other hand left so much- starting with the Memorial Service, Funeral, TII, and "Michael." It's all like one big treasure map with clues.  To disregard all these, would mean they are all coincidences- which we already agreed on they are not, correct?  What would be the purpose of all the clues if you want to stay "dead."  If Michael planned to stay dead- would it not be easier to have "died" from a simple heart attack and then be done with it?  I just do not see Michael leaving his children unless it was absolutely necessary.  Let's not forget their possible involvement (again: memorial, Oprah interview)- what would be the point to put them through all this if there was not hope that their Daddy was to return.
I think, Lisa did not know that her father had not passed until some time had passed- however, I think Michael had prepped his children before the event.  Remember, he knew what it did to Lisa Marie to live with the hoax of her father's death- would he really agree to put his children through this? Unless it was absolutely necessary, served a greater good, protected himself and thus them, and he planned to stun the world by coming back.

Your right but Elvis did kinda leave clues  by using numerology.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: TS_comments on March 15, 2011, 10:18:13 PM
Quote from: "Im_convincedmjalive"
Ok I didn't realize you were gonna go there TS.  ;) I was trying to just stay on the subject of the paramedics but now that you opened up the direction of this to go towards the FBI being involved I am re-posting some info I have known about for a while now. I didn't want to get to ahead of the game, lol ...
[/color]

I brought the FBI in at this point for a few reasons, one of which was that people in this thread were already discussing possible government involvement.  Also, I intentionally posted the beginning of this thread at 3:33, as a clue about the 333 pages of FBI files--intending to bring the FBI in at some point in this thread.

The biggest reason I brought the FBI in at this point, though, is something that seems to have gotten lost or set aside in all the discussion of the FBI and other things.  So let's see if we can get back on track.  If the FBI is involved: would they hire actors and rent an ambulance, or would they cooperate with the real LAFD paramedics and use the actual #71 ambulance from Bel Air?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: PureLove on March 15, 2011, 10:19:57 PM
Quote from: "ignisaeternus"
Probably another coincidence.. LOL :lol: (the TS in the FBI post, I mean)

:lol: I saw a couple of TS on that page which were the short type of Top Secret. Actually TS is our Top Secret too as we do not know who he is. :)

I do not know if Michael is some kind of agent for FBI or just had an agreement with them but this just stood to me in the first place. It says that FBI gets professionals such as intelligence analysts, language specialists, scientists, information technology specialists, and other professionals. <== Other professionals like Pop Stars and film makers? Why not? Sounds so plausible to me.
:)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MJhasSpoken on March 15, 2011, 10:30:29 PM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Quote from: "Im_convincedmjalive"
Ok I didn't realize you were gonna go there TS.  ;) I was trying to just stay on the subject of the paramedics but now that you opened up the direction of this to go towards the FBI being involved I am re-posting some info I have known about for a while now. I didn't want to get to ahead of the game, lol ...
[/color]

I brought the FBI in at this point for a few reasons, one of which was that people in this thread were already discussing possible government involvement.  Also, I intentionally posted the beginning of this thread at 3:33, as a clue about the 333 pages of FBI files--intending to bring the FBI in at some point in this thread.

The biggest reason I brought the FBI in at this point, though, is something that seems to have gotten lost or set aside in all the discussion of the FBI and other things.  So let's see if we can get back on track.  If the FBI is involved: would they hire actors and rent an ambulance, or would they cooperate with the real LAFD paramedics and use the actual #71 ambulance from Bel Air?


What do you mean by cooperating with the LAPD paramedics? (like the FBI gets them involved or that the LAPD don't know anything and the FBI can't tell them so they just have to cooperate with them) , but because the FBI is higher in authority and says what goes, couldn't they just go either way.
Is there really a need to rent an ambulance when the FBI can fix up everything with no questions asked?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: RK on March 15, 2011, 10:37:13 PM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Quote from: "MJonmind"
So how does the FBI fit with this?
Quote
by TS » Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:30 am

TIAI Revealed, Part 9: Today is 12-21-2009 (R49)

In this final part, we are going to be examining once again the “2012” film—especially as it relates to the concept of the end of the world on 12-21-2012, which is exactly three years from today. The “2012” movie story starts in the year 2009, and ends in 2012.

The “four years” that MJ mentioned in TII started in the spring of 2009 (when the “This Is It” concerts were in the planning stages); so we have already gone through the first year. You could also think of the four years as ending on 9-9-09, 10-10-10, 11-11-11, and 12-12-12 (ten day countdown to 12-21-12). Of course these are a little more than a year apart; but they are interesting numerology milestones in the four year process.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
“Can Ye Not Discern the Signs of the Times?”

Jesus said: “… ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?” (Matthew 16:3). Jesus also said: “… when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh [near], even at the doors. … Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.” (Mark 13:29-32).

So we don’t know the exact day or hour of the end of the world—maybe not even the exact year. But if we can “discern the signs of the times”, we should be able to know when it is near! The exact date of 12-21-2012 for the end of the world is fiction; it could happen on that date, but unlikely. However the end of the world being near is a very real concept, and not merely fiction. So let’s look at some of the “signs of the times”, which show that the end is near.

Speaking of fleeing at the end of time, Jesus said: “But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.” (Matthew 24:20,21). Did you know that 12-21-2012 will be the first day of winter (northern hemisphere)? And did you know that 12-21-2012 will be a Friday? And did you know that in the Bible, the Sabbath day begins at sunset on Friday?? Is it a coincidence, that both of the things which Jesus mentioned (winter and Sabbath) will begin on the same day that the Mayan calendar ends?

Again, this does not necessarily mean that the world will end on 12-21-2012; in fact, Jesus asked us to pray that we would not have to flee on that day. Nevertheless, the fact that all these things line up on the same day is almost certainly a clue (sign) that the end is near.

The NWO is another huge sign that the end is near. It was prophesied nearly 2,000 years ago in the book of Revelation; read the whole book, especially the last half—and most particularly Revelation chapters 17 & 18. Here are a couple verses: “These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them:” (17:13,14).

Also very well known, from the book of Revelation, is 666 and the mark of the beast (see Revelation 13 & 14). The mark is related to finances: “And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark …” (13:17).

Surely you know that USA has the largest economy in the world. But did you know that S&P 500 (not Dow) is “the most reliable measure of the broader market” {http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=7468215}? And did you know that the S&P 500 hit a low of 666 this year on 3-6-09 {http://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story.asp?StoryId=%7bD2687B35-8BC2-4AA9-A2D4-A004E3E15AF1%7d}; even the date is similar to 666 (subtract 3 from the last digit, and add it to the first digit). This was the bottom point in the worst US recession since the great depression; and in fact many people were calling it the verge of financial “Armageddon” (another end-of-the-world term from Revelation). What does this mean? Surely, it is another sign that the end is near.

Daniel 12:4 says that in “… the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.” Do we see that today? Travel on a major scale, the likes of which has never existed before in human history. And also there is increasing knowledge in many areas, never before known to man. In fact the internet, a major source of knowledge, has only come into normal household use in the last decade or two. Furthermore, the speed that we can now share information on the internet (through videos, pictures, etc) is something that we couldn’t do just a few years ago.

Another sign of the end is many natural disasters (see Matthew 24:7; Mark 13;8; Luke 21:11; etc). Did you know that earthquakes (along with other disasters) are on the increase? {http://earthquake.usgs.gov/}

As mentioned already (see R47), the Ark of the Covenant plays a major role near the end of time. Again, stayed tuned to TIAI for more info on the Ark; this will certainly happen well before 12-21-2012.

And what about the Mayan calendar ending on 12-21-2012, should we entirely dismiss this? Again, maybe nothing will happen on that exact day—perhaps not even in that year; but especially in light of all the other signs, it is pretty evident that the Mayans did not miss the end of the world by centuries, or even decades. Sometimes I think that the ancient civilizations had more true wisdom than modern man, with all his boasted technology and science.

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“The Son of Man Cometh at an Hour When Ye Think Not.”

“Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.” (Luke 12:40; see 12:46; Matthew 24:50). “… the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.” (1 Thessalonians 5:2,3; see Luke 17:26-30).

Different people have different concepts—even within Christianity—about the end of the world: when it will happen, how it will happen, etc. And other religions also have their concepts of the end of time. But most people in most religions are realizing that the world is on the verge of some major change; that is just too obvious to hide.

And for those who think that there will be at least seven more years before the end, be careful. Maybe there will be, but maybe not. Remember that the Jews—even Christ’s own disciples—thought that prophecy was yet to be fulfilled, before the Messiah would come; and yet the prophecy had already been fulfilled, and they didn’t recognize it (see Malachi 4:5; Matthew 17:10-13; etc).

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“There Shall Come in the Last Days Scoffers”

“Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.” (2 Peter 3:3,4; see 3:5,6).

Scoffing is another major sign that the end is near. Just because there have been false alarms in the past, doesn’t mean that the real thing will never come. So don’t be too quick to join in with the scoffing attitude.

And don’t be over confident in what the media or scientists tell you (that it’s not the end of the world); often scientists are right, but they have also been wrong at times (see 1 Timothy 6:20).

Scientists were wrong in the days of Noah; they told everyone not to worry about any flood, because it had never rained before and “all things [would] continue as they were from the beginning of the creation” (see Genesis 2:5; 2 Peter 3:3-6). So of all the people in the antediluvian world: only eight refused to believe the scientists, and decided to get into the ark of safety.

Do you think that the flood is just a myth? Jesus took it literally, and used it as an example of how people would be at the end of the world: “And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.” (see Matthew 24:37-39; Hebrews 11:7; 1 Peter 3:20; 2 Peter 2:5; etc). Again, stay tuned to TIAI: and soon you will see abundant evidence that the flood of Noah literally happened—similar to the final scenes in the “2012” movie.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
This Is REALLY It!

The end of the world is near: whether you want it or not, whether you believe it or not, whether you’re ready or not—the end of the world is coming, soon and very soon! This is big; this is huge; this is colossal; in fact, it really doesn’t get any bigger than this!!! And once again, from the London press conference {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1znYaU0oeo&feature=PlayList&p=4337629E8ED55A02&index=4}: “This is it, I mean this is REALLY it; this is the final — this is the FINAL curtain call.”

As ignisaeternus just pointed out: "... it has been mentioned numerous times that the 333 pages were released o 12/21 (2009)- which of course is also time of the 911 call." {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=275#p313434}.  Actually, they were released on 12-22-09; but 12-21 was the date that the 333 pages were supposed to be released, and it got delayed one day because of bad weather.

Anyway, some have questioned if the FBI would be involved in the numerology; and as I already mentioned, Elvis had governement help and also used numerology (including planning the death date to fit the numerology).  So regardless of why, the fact is that they can include numerology--and in fact they already have done so with Elvis, so why not with MJ?

Anyone who has read the numerology posts already knows that 111 is the most fundamental number of the MJ hoax {see especially Update #4, http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=125&t=7010}.  Along with almost all of the hoax numbers, 333 also divides evenly by 111.  The chance of this being a coincidence is about 1 in 111.

However, planning to release these exact same 333 pages on 12-21, what are the odds that this was ALSO a coincidence?  With 365 days in a year, it would be 1 chance in 365.  Of course someone could say that there are more opportunities for a coincidence during the year, such as 11-5 (V); however, that date would not divide evenly by 111; and 1221 does divide evenly by 111.  Also, 12:21 is the time of the 911 call.  So there is no day of the year which would fit better to release the 333 pages, than on 12-21 (also the date of TIAI Revealed  :) ).

Now what are the odds that the pages were 333 by coincidence, AND the planned release was 12-21 by coincidence?  Multiply the two odds: 111 x 365 = one chance in 40,515 that this was just a coincidence.  And if it's not a coincidence, then we know that the FBI are helping with the hoax--and we also know that they are including numerology, just like with Elvis.

Finally, what are the odds that the FBI funeral article with the "Thriller" graveyard would be dated on the anniversary of the MJ burial, just by coincidence--in addition to the above "coincidences" (333 & 12-21), and all the other "coincidences" (FBI cap, other numerology, etc)?

http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/september/funeral-scams/financial-fraud-and-funeral-scams
Morning TS. I was reading all of the above and the question of how does TIAI part 9 fit in with the FBI pages came up. Hmm. If the goal of the hoax is to turn 666 into 999 and  in biblical reference 666 is to do with world money systems  then I am thinking that MJ's involvment with the FBI is about money laundering and ultimately, the planned introduction by NWO of the cashless society.
Rev13:16 He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to recieve a mark on his right hand or on his forehead 17] so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.
So we have biblical numerology [even in interpreting the name of the beast] end time NWO agenda of implementing a cashless world wide society and criminal money trails that would be of interest to FBI. We have heard non believers say to follow the money trail since the beginning of the hoax. Both Branca and Malnic have been reported to have involvment in past with off shore money laundering for the mafia (Malnic anyways). And as for the 333 [as in pages of FBI report] for me it's like God's seal of his own personal  involvement. 333 is symbolic of the triune God, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit without whose help, this whole hoax would not have been able to be accomplished and also acknowledged and alluded to by the same graveyard used in the ressurection scene in TII. Thanks for the clues MJ.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on March 15, 2011, 10:54:38 PM
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=300#p313461 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=300#p313461)

This is a response to the above comments.
I found this (see below) http://angelbabe43.wordpress.com/2011/0 ... death-bed/ (http://angelbabe43.wordpress.com/2011/03/16/high-ranking-bilderberg-mason-spills-the-beans-on-his-death-bed/)  today while searching for something else but it does actually do a great job of explaining what I believe is also a reason for the

"We only have four years to get it right"-MJ.  8-)

When you take into account the fact that the NWO has been trying to get it's plot going full force for many years and it just transfers from one president to the next to pick up where the other presidents left off.

Passing the tourch to the next puppet to keep pressing on towards a One World Government/Religion. I believe we are now in a sort of final phase of the NWO's plans by using once again a President to implement the changes. President Obama was elected in 2008 and his term will end in 2012. The NWO has been trying very hard over the last 3 years to move the plan forward quickly. President Obama was a perfect choice for the NWO and he was chosen for a reason.

My belief is he was supposed to come across as a Savior of mankind especially considering the first part of chaos in 2008 with the housing crisis, which caused alot of panic and upset, then the people started to lose their jobs, more chaos. I believe the NWO used a black president as bait.

I say this because there has never been a black president before and the NWO used that to their advantage. I believe the people and especially blacks were so desperate for change after all the stress from the Bush administration, 9/11, all the chaos from the economy crashing, losing jobs, and homes that when Obama came on the scene it was bought hook, line and sinker; he was the man for the people.

He represented something important to black folks in the sense of them thinking they were finally getting ahead. All the black folks who never voted before were on the band wagon. I will be honest and say I was moved at first by his election but once I found out the truth I am pissed. How dare the NWO use the people like that and play on their emotions. President Obama was celebrated not only in America but globally.

Since his term began so many of our civil liberties have been taken away. Martial law was passed, the new health care reform is a sham (it actually is a repeat from Hitler's time), suspected terrorist are held indefinately with no court date ever in sight, our 2nd amendment of our right to bear arms is almost non existant except for the people who aren't giving up that right, the order out of chaos theory is in my opinion: Scare the crap out of the people by faking terrorist threats and fake attacks (blaming it on other countries when in fact it is our own Governments doing it to us) to the point of submission. The NWO comes in with the answers to our prayers, lol...  8-)

They tell us that it is for our security to tighten up rules and we end up losing our freedoms and the weak don't question it and they just sheepishly go along with it.

http://angelbabe43.wordpress.com/2011/0 ... death-bed/ (http://angelbabe43.wordpress.com/2011/03/16/high-ranking-bilderberg-mason-spills-the-beans-on-his-death-bed/)
Quote
HIGH RANKING BILDERBERG MASON SPILLS THE BEANS ON HIS DEATH-BED
Posted by angelbabe43 on March 16, 2011

http://www.freestatevoice.com.au/politi ... -death-bed (http://www.freestatevoice.com.au/politics/item/592-high-ranking-bilderberg-mason-spills-the-beans-on-his-death-bed)

An Oil Tycoon – a high ranking Bilderberg Mason is terminally ill in the USA.  He opened his remorseful heart to Pastor Lindsay Williams lastweek.  He told him some of the plotted events coming for us all in the next year or so before the take over of the New World Order whereby we will be ruled by China, the yellow skinned race.

But of course the Real Rulers are the Illuminati Bankers who will remain in the shadows as the Chinese take over as the front stage men!  This is what he said which also includes other revelations and facts given to us by the alternative media which is not masonically controlled.

1 – Strike on Iran within 2 years and will spread everywhere!

2 – US Dollar will be definitely dead by 2012  – currencies will be
worthless as THEY usher in the new One World Currency.  The world as we know it now will be completely different in 2012.  Disruption of currencies plotted so pull your money out of the Banks, spend it NOW!

“China are the strong ones” – China are the New World Order
Leaders with America reduced to Third World status!  Timothy Geithner of the US Treasury speaks fluent Chinese! (KEVIN RUDD SPEAKS MANDARIN ALSO. ED.) Within 2 years we will not recognize America. The Elites have altered their Time Line.  After 2 years we will be so poor, we will  not be able to rebel!

3 -  Gold and Silver is all you can rely on – convert your assets and
cash to Gold ASAP – Urgent.  Don’t hang around because the Illuminati are going to crash the banks further very soon.  We are entering into a depression whereby we are ALL going to be utterly poor within two years from now – peasant attitude and peasant way of life..  Don’t depend on Real Estate, Assets!

4 – Crude Oil will be $150 – $200 per barrel in the next few months!

5 -  Banks to orchestrate the Mortgage Banking Crisis which will be
covered by the Act passed by US Congress two weeks ago enabling Banks to take over HOMES without the Deeds.  If you have a Mortgage, pay it off NOW or sell your home to enable you to pay for a home completely – even if you have to buy a shack.  Make sure your humble abode is PAID for – millions will lose their homes!

6 – Obama Health Care Bill is a Control Tool written by the Banks and implemented by the Insurance Companies!  It is Government Take Over – gun control, euthanasia etc hidden in this Bill.

7 -  US Govt gave China the Panama Canal many years ago – a Council of Foreign Relations (CFR) and Tri Lateral Commission (TriLats) strategy!

8 – China owns all the Greek Ports!

9 – China owns 90% of all Rare Earth Minerals – components for
Technology, Weapons etc.

China makes 80% of weapon components for the US Military.  US is
at the Mercy of China!

10 – China is the largest extractor of Natural Mineral Resources,
worldwide.  They do more than half of the mining in Australia.  China is mining in Africa, US, Middle East, Canada!  China has a 90% monopoly over all the Rare Earth Minerals!

11 – China is trading in all currencies, making them Flush with Cash so they can buy/sell in any currency.

12 – Russia is the biggest producer of Oil and Gas.  We must watch China and Russia.  American will never win a war against them because the US have moved all its’ manufacturing industry to China!

13 - The Elites, Globalists want a Middle East Crisis within a few
months. Goldman Sachs Bank, the IMF and City Bank are already in Iran – they have gone in the back door so to speak in order to cripple it financially before THEY strike.  It is also noteworthy to be aware that US/Europe have sold computers with worms (viruses) to Iran – a deliberate stroke.  So we see Iran being set up like Iraq – preparations are under way for a STRIKE against Iran within months!

14 – The Devil’s Messiah Project.  The terminally ill tycoon said:

“we had to get rid of God to bring in the New World Order.  He said that the Devil’s Messiah means total perversion because THEY (Illuminati) cannot bring the Devil’s Messiah to a Righteous People (a Godly people)!"  So now we know why homosexuality, abortion, euthanasia, pornography, unchaste dress, witchcraft is being basically forced upon mankind – in preparation for the arrival of the Anti Christ!!!

15 – The Illuminati are pushing the system for a One World Religion.

The National Council of Churches (World Council of Churches) is
financed by these Masonic organisations – the Rockefeller, Carnegie and Ford Foundations.  It is interesting to note that Faith Communities are a Key Factor with regard to the False Ecumenism pushed by these Councils and Foundations.  Clergy Based Initiatives have taken over most of the churches in the US.  The mind boggles when you reflect how the Faith Initiative At Your Word Lord was stringently pushed in parts of the US, Ireland and especially in the Westminster Archdiocese!  Such Faith Initiatives only leads to an ALL  INCLUSIVE Church!  Enough said, folks!

16 -  Ordinances (local rulings) have been passed in some Counties in the US which empowers the County Sheriffs to come and padlock a church if just ONE complaint is made against that church (pastor) for speaking out against homosexuality, dress code etc!  They are bringing in these Ordinances to shut down churches outside any process of law – just like China!

17 – “We must have our own National Media to bring about the New World Order!” – which they have already – a masonically corporately owned media Civilisation is being collapsed by design.  Elites control China and Russia as well as the US President and Congress.  Congress are going to try and ram through the Cyber Security Act and the Carbon Tax Act.  The US Taxpayer will be asked to bail out the Mortgage Backed Security Crisis which will give around 3 Trillion to the Big Banks.  The Big Banks are snapping up the small banks who are trying to rescue our economies but the Big Boys, the Jewish Illuminati who are the Mega Global Exchangers are having NONE of it.  The Name of the Game is CONTROL – to control your money, your home, your car – your whole life!

Order out of Chaos – to bring about a full spectrum of world dominance!
My evidence regarding what I said above. All of this info I have known about since last year when I started my hoax adventure. This where I went on the hunt for answers. 8-)
IT IS NOW OFFICIAL - THE U.S. IS A POLICE STATE
[youtube:3msm1tnw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_ImuY5aZ-4[/youtube:3msm1tnw]
Quote
Americans have been losing the protection of law for years. In the 21st century the loss of legal protections accelerated with the Bush administrations war on terror, which continues under the Obama administration and is essentially a war on the Constitution and U.S. civil liberties.

The Bush regime was determined to vitiate habeas corpus in order to hold people indefinitely without bringing charges. The regime had acquired hundreds of prisoners by paying a bounty for terrorists. Afghan warlords and thugs responded to the financial incentive by grabbing unprotected people and selling them to the Americans.

The Bush regime needed to hold the prisoners without charges because it had no evidence against the people and did not want to admit that the U.S. government had stupidly paid warlords and thugs to kidnap innocent people. In addition, the Bush regime needed terrorists prisoners in order to prove that there was a terrorist threat.

As there was no evidence against the detainees (most have been released without charges after years of detention and abuse), the U.S. government needed a way around U.S. and international laws against torture in order that the government could produce evidence via self-incrimination. The Bush regime found inhumane and totalitarian-minded lawyers and put them to work at the U.S. Department of Justice (sic) to invent arguments that the Bush regime did not need to obey the law.

The Bush regime created a new classification for its detainees that it used to justify denying legal protection and due process to the detainees. As the detainees were not U.S. citizens and were demonized by the regime as the 760 most dangerous men on earth, there was little public outcry over the regimes unconstitutional and inhumane actions.

As our Founding Fathers and a long list of scholars warned, once civil liberties are breached, they are breached for all. Soon U.S. citizens were being held indefinitely in violation of their habeas corpus rights.
......

This shows how far the police state has advanced. A presidential appointee in the Obama administration tells an important committee of Congress that the executive branch has decided that it can murder American citizens abroad if it thinks they are a threat.

I can hear readers saying the government might as well kill Americans abroad as it kills them at home Waco, Ruby Ridge, the Black Panthers.

Yes, the U.S. government has murdered its citizens, but Dennis Blairs defined policy is a bold new development. The government, of course, denies that it intended to kill the Branch Davidians, Randy Weavers wife and child, or the Black Panthers. The government says that Waco was a terrible tragedy, an unintended result brought on by the Branch Davidians themselves. The government says that Ruby Ridge was Randy Weavers fault for not appearing in court on a day that had been miscommunicated to him. The Black Panthers, the government says, were dangerous criminals who insisted on a shootout.

In no previous death of a U.S. citizen by the hands of the U.S. government has the government claimed the right to kill Americans without arrest, trial, and conviction of a capital crime.

In contrast, Dennis Blair has told the U.S. Congress that the executive branch has assumed the right to murder Americans who it deems a threat.

What defines threat? Who will make the decision? What it means is that the government will murder whomever it chooses.

There is no more complete or compelling evidence of a police state than the government announcing that it will murder its own citizens if it views them as a threat.

Ironic, isnt it, that the war on terror to make us safe ends in a police state with the government declaring the right to murder American citizens whom it regards as a threat.

Full article:

http://original.antiwar.com/roberts/201 ... ice-state/ (http://original.antiwar.com/roberts/2010/02/09/us-is-a-police-state/)

INFOWARS.com
PrisonPlanet.com
PrisonPlanet.TV
The Truth About Health Care Bill- Unconstitutional, Federal power grab, NO PRIVACY
[youtube:3msm1tnw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RxKFkyt-I0[/youtube:3msm1tnw]
Quote
THE TRUTH ABOUT THE HEALTH CARE BILL

If you only read 9 paragraphs about the proposed health care reform Act, H.R. 3200, please let it be the article below by Michael Connelly. The article is also available at the link attached at the end of the article. Professor Connelly is a retired attorney, former Officer in the U.S. Army, published author and Constitutional Law Instructor.

http://www.michaelconnelly.viviti.com/e ... lth-care-b (http://www.michaelconnelly.viviti.com/entries/general/the-truth-about-the-health-care-b)­ills The Truth About the Health Care Bill

To begin with, much of what has been said about the law and its implications is in fact true, despite what the Democrats and the media are saying.. The law does provide for rationing of health care, particularly where senior citizens and other classes of citizens are involved, free health care for illegal immigrants, free abortion services, and probably
forced participation in abortions by members of the medical profession.

The Bill will also eventually force private insurance companies out of business and put everyone into a government run system. All decisions about personal health care will ultimately be made by federal bureaucrats and most of them will not be health care professionals. Hospital admissions, payments to physicians, and allocations of necessary medical devices will be strictly controlled. However, as scary as all of that is, it just scratches the surface. In fact, I have concluded that this legislation really has no
intention of providing affordable health care choices. Instead it is a convenient cover for the most massive transfer of power to the Executive Branch of government that has ever occurred, or even been contemplated.

You can also forget about the right to privacy. That will have been legislated into oblivion regardless of what the 3rd and 4thAmendments may provide. If you decide not to have healthcare insurance or if you have private insurance that is not deemed "acceptable" to the "Health Choices Administrator" appointed by Obama there will be a tax imposed on you. It is called a "tax" instead of a fine because of the intent to avoid application of the due process clause of the 5th Amendment. However, that doesn't work because since there is nothing in the law that allows you to contest or appeal the imposition of the tax, it is definitely depriving someone of property without the "due process of law.

I could write many more pages about this legislation, but I think you get the idea. This is not about health care; it is about seizing power and limiting rights. Article 6 of the Constitution requires the members of both houses of Congress to "be bound by oath or affirmation" to support the Constitution. If I was a member of Congress I would not be able to vote for this legislation or anything like it without feeling I was violating that sacred oath or affirmation. If I voted for it anyway I would hope the American people would hold me accountable. For those who might doubt the nature of this threat, I suggest they consult the source. Here is a link to the Constitution:
http://www(dot (http://www(dot))archives(dot)gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html

http://www(dot (http://www(dot))archives (dot)gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html

And another to the Bill of Rights:

http://www(dot (http://www(dot))archives.(dot)gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript....

http://www(dot (http://www(dot))archives(dot)gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.html

There you can see exactly what we are about to have taken from us."

Michael Connelly
Retired attorney,
Constitutional Law Instructor
Carrollton, Texas

http://www.michaelconnelly.viviti.com/e ... lth-care-b (http://www.michaelconnelly.viviti.com/entries/general/the-truth-about-the-health-care-b)­ills
Foreign Troops in Calif on Martial Law Standby
[youtube:3msm1tnw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msrBpwVvwdc[/youtube:3msm1tnw]

H1N1 Quarantine Martial Law FEMA camps Microchips MUST SEE!!
[youtube:3msm1tnw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0gHnspMnBA[/youtube:3msm1tnw]

U.S. Soldiers Rebel Against Martial Law Orders! Twitter: AngelicStarseed
[youtube:3msm1tnw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmmMUK4S8jE[/youtube:3msm1tnw]
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on March 15, 2011, 10:58:59 PM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Quote from: "Im_convincedmjalive"
Ok I didn't realize you were gonna go there TS.  ;) I was trying to just stay on the subject of the paramedics but now that you opened up the direction of this to go towards the FBI being involved I am re-posting some info I have known about for a while now. I didn't want to get to ahead of the game, lol ...
[/color]

I brought the FBI in at this point for a few reasons, one of which was that people in this thread were already discussing possible government involvement.  Also, I intentionally posted the beginning of this thread at 3:33, as a clue about the 333 pages of FBI files--intending to bring the FBI in at some point in this thread.

The biggest reason I brought the FBI in at this point, though, is something that seems to have gotten lost or set aside in all the discussion of the FBI and other things.  So let's see if we can get back on track.  If the FBI is involved: would they hire actors and rent an ambulance, or would they cooperate with the real LAFD paramedics and use the actual #71 ambulance from Bel Air?
Ok sorry for the long posts on that and the one I just prepared/posted having not seen this until just now. My bad. I have alot I want to say and have not until now. I will get back to the original subject.

Thanks for the answer.

Peace
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: PureLove on March 15, 2011, 11:01:52 PM
I'm reading FBI's page right now and please let me share some of the things I've found. These may have nothing to do with Michael's case OR they can be the case itself. So we'd better read these all.

FBI Resources for Helping Victims

The Office for Victim Assistance (OVA) is responsible for ensuring that victims of crimes investigated by the FBI are afforded the opportunity to receive the services and notification as required by federal law and the Attorney General Guidelines on Victim and Witness Assistance (2005). The OVA manages the day-to-day operational aspects of the Victim Assistance Program (VAP) in the 56 FBI field office across the country as well as the FBI’s international offices. In addition, the OVA is responsible for providing training and information that helps to equip FBI agents and other FBI personnel to work effectively with victims.

Victim Notification System

The FBI is a partner with the U.S. Attorneys’ Offices and the Federal Bureau of Prisons in the automated Victim Notification System (VNS). VNS is designed to provide victims with information about their cases. This free, computer-based system provides two important services to victims: information and notification. This information is available in English and Spanish. VNS can inform about scheduled court proceedings and about an offender’s custody status, such as placement in community corrections centers, furlough, release, or death.

The FBI’s victim specialist should be in contact with victims during the investigation stage of the case. Notifications which may be provided include the arrest of a suspect and scheduling of a release hearing, whether the case is being referred to state or local authorities, and when a case may be administratively closed. Victims will need to register with the FBI office handling their case. They will receive a Victim Identification Number (VIN) and a Personal Identification Number (PIN) that will allow them to access the VNS system. VNS now has an Internet-based website that can be found at http://www.notify.usdoj.gov (http://www.notify.usdoj.gov).
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Adi on March 15, 2011, 11:15:28 PM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Quote from: "Im_convincedmjalive"
Ok I didn't realize you were gonna go there TS.  ;) I was trying to just stay on the subject of the paramedics but now that you opened up the direction of this to go towards the FBI being involved I am re-posting some info I have known about for a while now. I didn't want to get to ahead of the game, lol ...
[/color]

I brought the FBI in at this point for a few reasons, one of which was that people in this thread were already discussing possible government involvement.  Also, I intentionally posted the beginning of this thread at 3:33, as a clue about the 333 pages of FBI files--intending to bring the FBI in at some point in this thread.

The biggest reason I brought the FBI in at this point, though, is something that seems to have gotten lost or set aside in all the discussion of the FBI and other things.  So let's see if we can get back on track.  If the FBI is involved: would they hire actors and rent an ambulance, or would they cooperate with the real LAFD paramedics and use the actual #71 ambulance from Bel Air?

I would think if the FBI are involved and if it really was a matter of protecting people including Michael from great danger, whatever type it may be I am unsure, or investigating something extremely serious, then they would be the higher "authority" so to speak and because of this maybe the FBI did have the cooperation of the LAFD as it was something so serious. So if the real ambo officers were used in the picture then they of course would be sworn to secrecy if the FBI were involved.

On the other hand...just throwing this out there.....maybe the ambo officers are actually  FBI agents in a staged shot? We can't see their faces afterall.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: PureLove on March 15, 2011, 11:20:52 PM
When I was searching for Witness Protection Program, I found out that some of the states have their own WPP. This is California Witness Protection Program. And Michael is definitely not in WPP.

State of California Department of Justice / Office of the Attorney General

California Witness Protection Program

The California Witness Protection Program provides protection of witnesses and their families, friends, or associates who are endangered due to ongoing or anticipated testimony in gang, organized crime, or narcotic trafficking cases or in other cases that have a high degree of risk to the witness. The CWPP reimburses California's District Attorneys for expenses incurred by agencies during the protection of witnesses.

http://caag.state.ca.us/cbi/content/protection.htm (http://caag.state.ca.us/cbi/content/protection.htm)


How Witness Protection Works

.......... The Federal Witness Security Program is intended for crucial witnesses, like Tolomeo, whose prospective testimony puts them in immediate danger. Since its inception in 1970, more than 7,500 witnesses and more than 9,500 witness family members have entered the program and have been protected, relocated and given new identities by the U.S. Marshals Service.

In this article, we'll look at how the U.S. Department of Justice erases the old identities of important witnesses and places them in a city where they are not likely to be recognized, with new names and new lives. The most important rule of the program is that witnesses must not make contact with former associates or unprotected family members. They also must not return to the town from which they were relocated.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: wishingstar on March 16, 2011, 12:02:53 AM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Quote from: "Im_convincedmjalive"
Ok I didn't realize you were gonna go there TS.  ;) I was trying to just stay on the subject of the paramedics but now that you opened up the direction of this to go towards the FBI being involved I am re-posting some info I have known about for a while now. I didn't want to get to ahead of the game, lol ...
[/color]

I brought the FBI in at this point for a few reasons, one of which was that people in this thread were already discussing possible government involvement.  Also, I intentionally posted the beginning of this thread at 3:33, as a clue about the 333 pages of FBI files--intending to bring the FBI in at some point in this thread.

The biggest reason I brought the FBI in at this point, though, is something that seems to have gotten lost or set aside in all the discussion of the FBI and other things.  So let's see if we can get back on track.  If the FBI is involved: would they hire actors and rent an ambulance, or would they cooperate with the real LAFD paramedics and use the actual #71 ambulance from Bel Air?

If the FBI is truly involved with all this, I can't see them hiring actors and renting an ambulance.....even in Hollywood.  That would open themselves up to a lack of security within whatever operation they were running.  Any outsider would pose a security risk.  Things would have to be kept very tight and done from within.  That being said, even working with the LAFD would have created questions.  Security would have had to have been top priority.  The fact that the ambulance driver couldn't turn around should prove it was someone other than LAFD at the wheel.  
Blessings
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Grace on March 16, 2011, 12:26:47 AM
Quote from: "wishingstar"
The fact that the ambulance driver couldn't turn around should prove it was someone other than LAFD at the wheel.  
Blessings

Would we have to consider then the paramedics not being paramedics and Doc Murray not being Doc Murray? Would we have to consider NPG not to be NPG and Harvey not to be Harvey?
Are FBI green guys and CIA red guys or would we find green and red amongst both orgs?
Are we heading towards Laurel Cyn?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 16, 2011, 01:06:59 AM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
I brought the FBI in at this point for a few reasons, one of which was that people in this thread were already discussing possible government involvement.  Also, I intentionally posted the beginning of this thread at 3:33, as a clue about the 333 pages of FBI files--intending to bring the FBI in at some point in this thread.

Actually on my computer I see the original post was made at 11:33, 8 hours difference :?
People started to discuss government implication not because of the hour and minute of the original post, but because it looked like the only logical answer in the context of the paramedics discussion.


Quote from: "TS_comments"
The biggest reason I brought the FBI in at this point, though, is something that seems to have gotten lost or set aside in all the discussion of the FBI and other things.  So let's see if we can get back on track.  If the FBI is involved: would they hire actors and rent an ambulance, or would they cooperate with the real LAFD paramedics and use the actual #71 ambulance from Bel Air?

Both ways are risky IMO.
Both ways imply the same number of LAFD people who would have to know there is something going on.
In the first case LAFD shoud be notified of the operation, even if not in detail. So they would have to know, and the same goes for the actors involved.
So the number of people "in the know" would be double.
That's why I would go for the second choise.
Of course we have a third choise, that they used FBI agents instead of paid actors.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: 2good2btrue on March 16, 2011, 01:13:24 AM
Latest FBI news...................

I know we have brought up the possibility of Mafia involvement and the people that surrounded MJ, especially in the last few years.  We all know that Tommy Mottola has Mafia ties....and in the FBI files, they talk about the threats made against MJ and the president, over Janet..

14 Gambino Crime Family Members and Associates Plead Guilty International
Tuesday, 11 January 2011 13:19

NEW YORK - The United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York announced the guilty pleas of all 14 members and associates of the Gambino Organized Crime Family of La Cosa Nostra (the "Gambino Family") who were charged in Manhattan federal court in April 2010 with crimes including racketeering, murder, sex trafficking, extortion, and wire fraud.

What about all the death threats made against MJ by Thomne Thomne???  Isn't he a wanted man for extortion in Lebanon????  

Could all this be about Thomne Thomne ?????????
http://justpiper.com/2011/01/fbi-charge ... s-charged/ (http://justpiper.com/2011/01/fbi-charges-26-gambino-crime-family-leaders-la-cosa-nostra-families-in-four-districts-charged/)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: 2good2btrue on March 16, 2011, 01:40:32 AM
Jones under Multi-Levels Investigations due to Jackson’s Death

Frank Paul Jones the alias Frank Paul Gambino is under investigations by a multi-level of law enforcement agencies.  On 22 December 2009 the bombshell fell as TMZ.com released FBI documents containing over 190 pages of investigation documents concerning an alleged plot by Frank Paul Jones to whack Michael Jackson over money owed in a secret business deal and a 50% stake in his estate.

When this bombshell first surfaced it seemed that the investigation was over, however after a better observation of current events it appears that this investigation has been ongoing for the last year, and what happened was that TMZ.com got a hold to information that was an on-going situation.

Jones who was found indigent by the court feels that they are trying to tie him to criminal activities beyond the Michael Jackson’s death and that he was illegally interrogated, in the County of Highlands, Florida., after being falsely arrested.  Jones feels that are trying to take him down, but the problem is he is already down and out for the count.  As he puts it, “I have nothing but a small two bedroom home still in probate and am the agent of some commercial property, as I depend on disability to live.”  Yet the government is using high tech angles such as wiretapping and deep cover agents as well as doctors and lawyers to crack a code that does not exist.

Jones contends, “I know people who do bad things, however that does not make me a co-conspirator.”   Since the run in with the law in 1991-94, he has not even been convicted of a misdemeanor, but now they want to treat this case of an alleged DUI as if he is a career criminal.  Jones believes the investigations being carried out now are clandestine, for several reasons and feels the witch hunt must come to an end.

Jones who has several psychiatric diagnoses, one being Bi-Polar states that the threats he allegedly made may have been as a result of his disorder and not Organized Crime Connections.  Admitting he may have been obsessed with John J. Gotti and the Gambino Family and yes was raised in GambinoTerritory as a child in New York City.  And, yes his parents may have been engaged in Mafia Criminal activities as well during his childhood, but that does not make him a co-conspirator or a RICO Act candidate.  Stating both his parents and John J. Gotti are deceased, and he is not responsible for knowing what he knows or what they did in the past.  Frank Paul Jones aka Frank Paul Gambino feels that these recent developments and interrogations into his medical records and personal life is not the work of the Obama Administration or Eric Holder the Attorney General or even the FBI at this point.  This is not the work of the Secret Service.  This is the work of Hillbillies and interlopers trying to make a name for them.

Frank Paul Jones aka Frank Paul Gambino Productions and the Capstone Zulu Band, states for once and for all, “I had nothing to do with the death of Michael Jackson, or do I believe he is dead.  The Federal Government knows this and these investigations and interrogations are futile.  “I love America and am a law abiding citizen and any money used to investigate me is money wasted.”


http://hubpages.com/hub/Jones-under-Mul ... sons-Death (http://hubpages.com/hub/Jones-under-Multi-Levels-Investigations-due-to-Jacksons-Death)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MJonmind on March 16, 2011, 02:59:36 AM
TS, so when the FBI does a sting operation or works undercover they have to make sure everything looks legit, for the enemy to be convinced, thus actual 71 ambulance and FT, and their paramedics. When you say they cooperate with the LAPD, are they working as a team on a classified case that only the ones on the top really know what's going on, and everything is carried out according to the code book and their training, and nothing is leaked. If this situation is similar to Elvis' then the FBI are carrying out this death hoax according to MJ's plans--meaning he is the brain-child (the numerology reaches back to his early years) and fulfilling his dream for The Greatest Show on Earth, but they will get their man (crooks) by providing the mechanics, legal and physical protection. Sounds like a marriage made in heaven!

Then Michael is one of the 20,420 support professionals, in his case--entertainment business expert.

TS, just wondering if you have any tangible proof that the FBI really are the good guys, the defenders of good. (Is Faction 2 real according to you?) We've had so much info on CIA, Illuminati, NWO showing evil intentions and actions. How could a US government basically run by Illuminati/Bilderbergs/CIA/Freemasons (more names) since it's inception in 1776, even tolerate an organization that purposes to watch/correct/overthrow it. Why would they not have wiped it out or infiltrated it long ago and replaced its leadership with sabateurs. Or does the FBI somehow have God's special protection and authority and the enemy simply gave up trying to destroy it. In the Biblical scenario specifically Revelation, we see only two parties --Anti-Christ group and authentic Christ group that will fight it out, and of course good triumphs. But Satan is a master of disguise, disguised as a messenger of light, if it were possible deceiving even the elect or chosen ones. So it can be almost impossible to tell who's who.

Well 2012 can't be the end of the world, something needs to happen in 2040 according to MJ, though he'll be 82. Seems to me that even if it's a change in leadership or major clean-up of big crime like the mafia, that human nature tends toward greed and power, and over time whole new generations of new diabolical crimes with their perpetrators will spread everywhere like wildfire. Only God can stablize the hearts of man and turn their hearts towards good and love. Old and New Testaments describe the One God will send to represent Him to rule with a rod of iron. If this isn't really the end of the Biblical age, then it's just another historical chapter like the abolition of slavery, which was great but evil still continued.

I didn't understand or see about TS posting at 3:33 to tie in with the 333 pages of FBI report on MJ. But Gina did post at that time.

Quote
by GINAFELICIA » Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:33 am
ItsHer I don't even know what to say.
Your theory doesn't sound too crazy ?

You think Michael could have bought their silence on such a big thing like his faked death?

No......all these are toooooooo unrealistic.

But if we go back to the old theories of the CIA involvement, than I think everyhting falls in place.
They have the power to set up such an illusion, given the required involvement of so many public services - LAFD, LAPD, UCLA, the coroner, the court of laws and what did I miss?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Sarahli on March 16, 2011, 06:10:25 AM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
I brought the FBI in at this point for a few reasons, one of which was that people in this thread were already discussing possible government involvement.  Also, I intentionally posted the beginning of this thread at 3:33, as a clue about the 333 pages of FBI files--intending to bring the FBI in at some point in this thread.

The biggest reason I brought the FBI in at this point, though, is something that seems to have gotten lost or set aside in all the discussion of the FBI and other things.  So let's see if we can get back on track.  If the FBI is involved: would they hire actors and rent an ambulance, or would they cooperate with the real LAFD paramedics and use the actual #71 ambulance from Bel Air?

I think it makes more sense for the FBI to cooperate with the LAFD paramedics, they have the authority to do so and it would explain why the people involved can keep silent about this story and of course the event looks more authentic. Now i'm thinking that the less the people see and know the hows, the better. So i thought that maybe FBI agents "played" the paramedics and requisitioned the real ambulance? I also say that because of the way the driver of the ambulance maneuvered it, if it has not been done on purpose, then i would question if he's really a paramedic.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MissG on March 16, 2011, 06:28:38 AM
Quote from: "2good2btrue"
Jones under Multi-Levels Investigations due to Jackson’s Death

Frank Paul Jones the alias Frank Paul Gambino is under investigations by a multi-level of law enforcement agencies.  On 22 December 2009 the bombshell fell as TMZ.com released FBI documents containing over 190 pages of investigation documents concerning an alleged plot by Frank Paul Jones to whack Michael Jackson over money owed in a secret business deal and a 50% stake in his estate.

When this bombshell first surfaced it seemed that the investigation was over, however after a better observation of current events it appears that this investigation has been ongoing for the last year, and what happened was that TMZ.com got a hold to information that was an on-going situation.

Jones who was found indigent by the court feels that they are trying to tie him to criminal activities beyond the Michael Jackson’s death and that he was illegally interrogated, in the County of Highlands, Florida., after being falsely arrested.  Jones feels that are trying to take him down, but the problem is he is already down and out for the count.  As he puts it, “I have nothing but a small two bedroom home still in probate and am the agent of some commercial property, as I depend on disability to live.”  Yet the government is using high tech angles such as wiretapping and deep cover agents as well as doctors and lawyers to crack a code that does not exist.

Jones contends, “I know people who do bad things, however that does not make me a co-conspirator.”   Since the run in with the law in 1991-94, he has not even been convicted of a misdemeanor, but now they want to treat this case of an alleged DUI as if he is a career criminal.  Jones believes the investigations being carried out now are clandestine, for several reasons and feels the witch hunt must come to an end.

Jones who has several psychiatric diagnoses, one being Bi-Polar states that the threats he allegedly made may have been as a result of his disorder and not Organized Crime Connections.  Admitting he may have been obsessed with John J. Gotti and the Gambino Family and yes was raised in GambinoTerritory as a child in New York City.  And, yes his parents may have been engaged in Mafia Criminal activities as well during his childhood, but that does not make him a co-conspirator or a RICO Act candidate.  Stating both his parents and John J. Gotti are deceased, and he is not responsible for knowing what he knows or what they did in the past.  Frank Paul Jones aka Frank Paul Gambino feels that these recent developments and interrogations into his medical records and personal life is not the work of the Obama Administration or Eric Holder the Attorney General or even the FBI at this point.  This is not the work of the Secret Service.  This is the work of Hillbillies and interlopers trying to make a name for them.

Frank Paul Jones aka Frank Paul Gambino Productions and the Capstone Zulu Band, states for once and for all, “I had nothing to do with the death of Michael Jackson, or do I believe he is dead.  The Federal Government knows this and these investigations and interrogations are futile.  “I love America and am a law abiding citizen and any money used to investigate me is money wasted.”


http://hubpages.com/hub/Jones-under-Mul ... sons-Death (http://hubpages.com/hub/Jones-under-Multi-Levels-Investigations-due-to-Jacksons-Death)

I started reading Gambino´s blog last year. His views are interesting.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MissG on March 16, 2011, 06:40:37 AM
Quote from: "Sarahli"
Quote from: "TS_comments"
I brought the FBI in at this point for a few reasons, one of which was that people in this thread were already discussing possible government involvement.  Also, I intentionally posted the beginning of this thread at 3:33, as a clue about the 333 pages of FBI files--intending to bring the FBI in at some point in this thread.

The biggest reason I brought the FBI in at this point, though, is something that seems to have gotten lost or set aside in all the discussion of the FBI and other things.  So let's see if we can get back on track.  If the FBI is involved: would they hire actors and rent an ambulance, or would they cooperate with the real LAFD paramedics and use the actual #71 ambulance from Bel Air?

I think it makes more sense for the FBI to cooperate with the LAFD paramedics, they have the authority to do so and it would explain why the people involved can keep silent about this story and of course the event looks more authentic. Now i'm thinking that the less the people see and know the hows, the better. So i thought that maybe FBI agents "played" the paramedics and requisitioned the real ambulance? I also say that because of the way the driver of the ambulance maneuvered it, if it has not been done on purpose, then i would question if he's really a paramedic.


Imo, since we are building a theory regarding the FBI and not having their cooperation or involvement as a fact, is that, if FBI would have been behind this, we would not know on the 1st place.

Their mission in this case would be to protect a person, MJ, and spreading hints that he is alive makes no sense, since this action can put him and his family in danger in the case he is wanted by the criminals he is hiding from and wants to expose.

On the other hand, not many people are in tune with the hoax theories and believe that we are in denial and not accepting Michael´s passing, using the hoax to heal ourselves and overcome his death, so, giving out hints that he is alive would reach that many and those (us) are not being taking seriously anyway.

But, wouldn´t the people after MJ check any info on the net? especially the ones who where not happy having MJ arround?

I am still thinking about the movie "The Life of David Gale".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Life_of_David_Gale (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Life_of_David_Gale)
The set up makes sense. But M is not dead in this case, just proving how the justice can be putting in the death row innocent people.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 16, 2011, 06:53:04 AM
Quote from: "MJonmind"
I didn't understand or see about TS posting at 3:33 to tie in with the 333 pages of FBI report on MJ. But Gina did post at that time.

Quote
by GINAFELICIA » Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:33 am
ItsHer I don't even know what to say.
Your theory doesn't sound too crazy ?

You think Michael could have bought their silence on such a big thing like his faked death?

No......all these are toooooooo unrealistic.

But if we go back to the old theories of the CIA involvement, than I think everyhting falls in place.
They have the power to set up such an illusion, given the required involvement of so many public services - LAFD, LAPD, UCLA, the coroner, the court of laws and what did I miss?


 :shock:  what?! I didn't even noticed that, believe me, this is just a freaking coincidence  :shock:

Anyway, my computer shows me the time of my post was 8:33
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 16, 2011, 06:59:12 AM
But I wanted to say FBI, not CIA :lol:  indeed.......
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: thecheetoman2004 on March 16, 2011, 07:35:02 AM
TS actually DID post at 3:33, because he posts according to Los Angeles time. @Gina: The reason you saw 11:33 is because you are in a different time zone than TS (who posts according to LA time).

3:33 because the 333 FBI pages.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 16, 2011, 08:23:38 AM
yeah I figured that out

some of us didn't notice TS posted at 3:33 because we saw different hours.

only the minutes are the same 33 all around the world I think
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: fordtocarr on March 16, 2011, 08:42:32 AM
Quote from: "Im_convincedmjalive"
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=300#p313461

This is a response to the above comments.
I found this (see below) http://angelbabe43.wordpress.com/2011/0 ... death-bed/ (http://angelbabe43.wordpress.com/2011/03/16/high-ranking-bilderberg-mason-spills-the-beans-on-his-death-bed/)  today while searching for something else but it does actually do a great job of explaining what I believe is also a reason for the

"We only have four years to get it right"-MJ.  8-)

When you take into account the fact that the NWO has been trying to get it's plot going full force for many years and it just transfers from one president to the next to pick up where the other presidents left off.

Passing the tourch to the next puppet to keep pressing on towards a One World Government/Religion. I believe we are now in a sort of final phase of the NWO's plans by using once again a President to implement the changes. President Obama was elected in 2008 and his term will end in 2012. The NWO has been trying very hard over the last 3 years to move the plan forward quickly. President Obama was a perfect choice for the NWO and he was chosen for a reason.

My belief is he was supposed to come across as a Savior of mankind especially considering the first part of chaos in 2008 with the housing crisis, which caused alot of panic and upset, then the people started to lose their jobs, more chaos. I believe the NWO used a black president as bait.

I say this because there has never been a black president before and the NWO used that to their advantage. I believe the people and especially blacks were so desperate for change after all the stress from the Bush administration, 9/11, all the chaos from the economy crashing, losing jobs, and homes that when Obama came on the scene it was bought hook, line and sinker; he was the man for the people.

He represented something important to black folks in the sense of them thinking they were finally getting ahead. All the black folks who never voted before were on the band wagon. I will be honest and say I was moved at first by his election but once I found out the truth I am pissed. How dare the NWO use the people like that and play on their emotions. President Obama was celebrated not only in America but globally.

Since his term began so many of our civil liberties have been taken away. Martial law was passed, the new health care reform is a sham (it actually is a repeat from Hitler's time), suspected terrorist are held indefinately with no court date ever in sight, our 2nd amendment of our right to bear arms is almost non existant except for the people who aren't giving up that right, the order out of chaos theory is in my opinion: Scare the crap out of the people by faking terrorist threats and fake attacks (blaming it on other countries when in fact it is our own Governments doing it to us) to the point of submission. The NWO comes in with the answers to our prayers, lol...  8-)

They tell us that it is for our security to tighten up rules and we end up losing our freedoms and the weak don't question it and they just sheepishly go along with it.

http://angelbabe43.wordpress.com/2011/0 ... death-bed/ (http://angelbabe43.wordpress.com/2011/03/16/high-ranking-bilderberg-mason-spills-the-beans-on-his-death-bed/)
Quote
HIGH RANKING BILDERBERG MASON SPILLS THE BEANS ON HIS DEATH-BED
Posted by angelbabe43 on March 16, 2011

http://www.freestatevoice.com.au/politi ... -death-bed (http://www.freestatevoice.com.au/politics/item/592-high-ranking-bilderberg-mason-spills-the-beans-on-his-death-bed)

An Oil Tycoon – a high ranking Bilderberg Mason is terminally ill in the USA.  He opened his remorseful heart to Pastor Lindsay Williams lastweek.  He told him some of the plotted events coming for us all in the next year or so before the take over of the New World Order whereby we will be ruled by China, the yellow skinned race.

But of course the Real Rulers are the Illuminati Bankers who will remain in the shadows as the Chinese take over as the front stage men!  This is what he said which also includes other revelations and facts given to us by the alternative media which is not masonically controlled.

1 – Strike on Iran within 2 years and will spread everywhere!

2 – US Dollar will be definitely dead by 2012  – currencies will be
worthless as THEY usher in the new One World Currency.  The world as we know it now will be completely different in 2012.  Disruption of currencies plotted so pull your money out of the Banks, spend it NOW!

“China are the strong ones” – China are the New World Order
Leaders with America reduced to Third World status!  Timothy Geithner of the US Treasury speaks fluent Chinese! (KEVIN RUDD SPEAKS MANDARIN ALSO. ED.) Within 2 years we will not recognize America. The Elites have altered their Time Line.  After 2 years we will be so poor, we will  not be able to rebel!

3 -  Gold and Silver is all you can rely on – convert your assets and
cash to Gold ASAP – Urgent.  Don’t hang around because the Illuminati are going to crash the banks further very soon.  We are entering into a depression whereby we are ALL going to be utterly poor within two years from now – peasant attitude and peasant way of life..  Don’t depend on Real Estate, Assets!

4 – Crude Oil will be $150 – $200 per barrel in the next few months!

5 -  Banks to orchestrate the Mortgage Banking Crisis which will be
covered by the Act passed by US Congress two weeks ago enabling Banks to take over HOMES without the Deeds.  If you have a Mortgage, pay it off NOW or sell your home to enable you to pay for a home completely – even if you have to buy a shack.  Make sure your humble abode is PAID for – millions will lose their homes!

6 – Obama Health Care Bill is a Control Tool written by the Banks and implemented by the Insurance Companies!  It is Government Take Over – gun control, euthanasia etc hidden in this Bill.

7 -  US Govt gave China the Panama Canal many years ago – a Council of Foreign Relations (CFR) and Tri Lateral Commission (TriLats) strategy!

8 – China owns all the Greek Ports!

9 – China owns 90% of all Rare Earth Minerals – components for
Technology, Weapons etc.

China makes 80% of weapon components for the US Military.  US is
at the Mercy of China!

10 – China is the largest extractor of Natural Mineral Resources,
worldwide.  They do more than half of the mining in Australia.  China is mining in Africa, US, Middle East, Canada!  China has a 90% monopoly over all the Rare Earth Minerals!

11 – China is trading in all currencies, making them Flush with Cash so they can buy/sell in any currency.

12 – Russia is the biggest producer of Oil and Gas.  We must watch China and Russia.  American will never win a war against them because the US have moved all its’ manufacturing industry to China!

13 - The Elites, Globalists want a Middle East Crisis within a few
months. Goldman Sachs Bank, the IMF and City Bank are already in Iran – they have gone in the back door so to speak in order to cripple it financially before THEY strike.  It is also noteworthy to be aware that US/Europe have sold computers with worms (viruses) to Iran – a deliberate stroke.  So we see Iran being set up like Iraq – preparations are under way for a STRIKE against Iran within months!

14 – The Devil’s Messiah Project.  The terminally ill tycoon said:

“we had to get rid of God to bring in the New World Order.  He said that the Devil’s Messiah means total perversion because THEY (Illuminati) cannot bring the Devil’s Messiah to a Righteous People (a Godly people)!"  So now we know why homosexuality, abortion, euthanasia, pornography, unchaste dress, witchcraft is being basically forced upon mankind – in preparation for the arrival of the Anti Christ!!!

15 – The Illuminati are pushing the system for a One World Religion.

The National Council of Churches (World Council of Churches) is
financed by these Masonic organisations – the Rockefeller, Carnegie and Ford Foundations.  It is interesting to note that Faith Communities are a Key Factor with regard to the False Ecumenism pushed by these Councils and Foundations.  Clergy Based Initiatives have taken over most of the churches in the US.  The mind boggles when you reflect how the Faith Initiative At Your Word Lord was stringently pushed in parts of the US, Ireland and especially in the Westminster Archdiocese!  Such Faith Initiatives only leads to an ALL  INCLUSIVE Church!  Enough said, folks!

16 -  Ordinances (local rulings) have been passed in some Counties in the US which empowers the County Sheriffs to come and padlock a church if just ONE complaint is made against that church (pastor) for speaking out against homosexuality, dress code etc!  They are bringing in these Ordinances to shut down churches outside any process of law – just like China!

17 – “We must have our own National Media to bring about the New World Order!” – which they have already – a masonically corporately owned media Civilisation is being collapsed by design.  Elites control China and Russia as well as the US President and Congress.  Congress are going to try and ram through the Cyber Security Act and the Carbon Tax Act.  The US Taxpayer will be asked to bail out the Mortgage Backed Security Crisis which will give around 3 Trillion to the Big Banks.  The Big Banks are snapping up the small banks who are trying to rescue our economies but the Big Boys, the Jewish Illuminati who are the Mega Global Exchangers are having NONE of it.  The Name of the Game is CONTROL – to control your money, your home, your car – your whole life!

Order out of Chaos – to bring about a full spectrum of world dominance!
My evidence regarding what I said above. All of this info I have known about since last year when I started my hoax adventure. This where I went on the hunt for answers. 8-)
IT IS NOW OFFICIAL - THE U.S. IS A POLICE STATE
[youtube:368qzanm]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_ImuY5aZ-4[/youtube:368qzanm]
Quote
Americans have been losing the protection of law for years. In the 21st century the loss of legal protections accelerated with the Bush administrations war on terror, which continues under the Obama administration and is essentially a war on the Constitution and U.S. civil liberties.

The Bush regime was determined to vitiate habeas corpus in order to hold people indefinitely without bringing charges. The regime had acquired hundreds of prisoners by paying a bounty for terrorists. Afghan warlords and thugs responded to the financial incentive by grabbing unprotected people and selling them to the Americans.

The Bush regime needed to hold the prisoners without charges because it had no evidence against the people and did not want to admit that the U.S. government had stupidly paid warlords and thugs to kidnap innocent people. In addition, the Bush regime needed terrorists prisoners in order to prove that there was a terrorist threat.

As there was no evidence against the detainees (most have been released without charges after years of detention and abuse), the U.S. government needed a way around U.S. and international laws against torture in order that the government could produce evidence via self-incrimination. The Bush regime found inhumane and totalitarian-minded lawyers and put them to work at the U.S. Department of Justice (sic) to invent arguments that the Bush regime did not need to obey the law.

The Bush regime created a new classification for its detainees that it used to justify denying legal protection and due process to the detainees. As the detainees were not U.S. citizens and were demonized by the regime as the 760 most dangerous men on earth, there was little public outcry over the regimes unconstitutional and inhumane actions.

As our Founding Fathers and a long list of scholars warned, once civil liberties are breached, they are breached for all. Soon U.S. citizens were being held indefinitely in violation of their habeas corpus rights.
......

This shows how far the police state has advanced. A presidential appointee in the Obama administration tells an important committee of Congress that the executive branch has decided that it can murder American citizens abroad if it thinks they are a threat.

I can hear readers saying the government might as well kill Americans abroad as it kills them at home Waco, Ruby Ridge, the Black Panthers.

Yes, the U.S. government has murdered its citizens, but Dennis Blairs defined policy is a bold new development. The government, of course, denies that it intended to kill the Branch Davidians, Randy Weavers wife and child, or the Black Panthers. The government says that Waco was a terrible tragedy, an unintended result brought on by the Branch Davidians themselves. The government says that Ruby Ridge was Randy Weavers fault for not appearing in court on a day that had been miscommunicated to him. The Black Panthers, the government says, were dangerous criminals who insisted on a shootout.

In no previous death of a U.S. citizen by the hands of the U.S. government has the government claimed the right to kill Americans without arrest, trial, and conviction of a capital crime.

In contrast, Dennis Blair has told the U.S. Congress that the executive branch has assumed the right to murder Americans who it deems a threat.

What defines threat? Who will make the decision? What it means is that the government will murder whomever it chooses.

There is no more complete or compelling evidence of a police state than the government announcing that it will murder its own citizens if it views them as a threat.

Ironic, isnt it, that the war on terror to make us safe ends in a police state with the government declaring the right to murder American citizens whom it regards as a threat.

Full article:

http://original.antiwar.com/roberts/201 ... ice-state/ (http://original.antiwar.com/roberts/2010/02/09/us-is-a-police-state/)

INFOWARS.com
PrisonPlanet.com
PrisonPlanet.TV
The Truth About Health Care Bill- Unconstitutional, Federal power grab, NO PRIVACY
[youtube:368qzanm]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RxKFkyt-I0[/youtube:368qzanm]
Quote
THE TRUTH ABOUT THE HEALTH CARE BILL

If you only read 9 paragraphs about the proposed health care reform Act, H.R. 3200, please let it be the article below by Michael Connelly. The article is also available at the link attached at the end of the article. Professor Connelly is a retired attorney, former Officer in the U.S. Army, published author and Constitutional Law Instructor.

http://www.michaelconnelly.viviti.com/e ... lth-care-b (http://www.michaelconnelly.viviti.com/entries/general/the-truth-about-the-health-care-b)­ills The Truth About the Health Care Bill

To begin with, much of what has been said about the law and its implications is in fact true, despite what the Democrats and the media are saying.. The law does provide for rationing of health care, particularly where senior citizens and other classes of citizens are involved, free health care for illegal immigrants, free abortion services, and probably
forced participation in abortions by members of the medical profession.

The Bill will also eventually force private insurance companies out of business and put everyone into a government run system. All decisions about personal health care will ultimately be made by federal bureaucrats and most of them will not be health care professionals. Hospital admissions, payments to physicians, and allocations of necessary medical devices will be strictly controlled. However, as scary as all of that is, it just scratches the surface. In fact, I have concluded that this legislation really has no
intention of providing affordable health care choices. Instead it is a convenient cover for the most massive transfer of power to the Executive Branch of government that has ever occurred, or even been contemplated.

You can also forget about the right to privacy. That will have been legislated into oblivion regardless of what the 3rd and 4thAmendments may provide. If you decide not to have healthcare insurance or if you have private insurance that is not deemed "acceptable" to the "Health Choices Administrator" appointed by Obama there will be a tax imposed on you. It is called a "tax" instead of a fine because of the intent to avoid application of the due process clause of the 5th Amendment. However, that doesn't work because since there is nothing in the law that allows you to contest or appeal the imposition of the tax, it is definitely depriving someone of property without the "due process of law.

I could write many more pages about this legislation, but I think you get the idea. This is not about health care; it is about seizing power and limiting rights. Article 6 of the Constitution requires the members of both houses of Congress to "be bound by oath or affirmation" to support the Constitution. If I was a member of Congress I would not be able to vote for this legislation or anything like it without feeling I was violating that sacred oath or affirmation. If I voted for it anyway I would hope the American people would hold me accountable. For those who might doubt the nature of this threat, I suggest they consult the source. Here is a link to the Constitution:
http://www(dot (http://www(dot))archives(dot)gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html

http://www(dot (http://www(dot))archives (dot)gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html

And another to the Bill of Rights:

http://www(dot (http://www(dot))archives.(dot)gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript....

http://www(dot (http://www(dot))archives(dot)gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.html

There you can see exactly what we are about to have taken from us."

Michael Connelly
Retired attorney,
Constitutional Law Instructor
Carrollton, Texas

http://www.michaelconnelly.viviti.com/e ... lth-care-b (http://www.michaelconnelly.viviti.com/entries/general/the-truth-about-the-health-care-b)­ills
Foreign Troops in Calif on Martial Law Standby
[youtube:368qzanm]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msrBpwVvwdc[/youtube:368qzanm]

H1N1 Quarantine Martial Law FEMA camps Microchips MUST SEE!!
[youtube:368qzanm]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0gHnspMnBA[/youtube:368qzanm]

U.S. Soldiers Rebel Against Martial Law Orders! Twitter: AngelicStarseed
[youtube:368qzanm]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmmMUK4S8jE[/youtube:368qzanm]


I'm glad you are talking about this because I ask the question the other day if  Obama has something to do with this because Michael is always working against prejudice and with the 4 year thing, and Obama's end of term.  Thanks for digging into this because I'd thought no one saw my post   : :D  :D  :D
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: paula-c on March 16, 2011, 09:32:47 AM
As public PureLove the witness protection program provides protection to witnesses and their families, old identities are being erased, put them in a city where there are likely to be recognized, with new names and new lives, and should not contact former members of the family without protection.
 Gema're right when you say that the FBI's mission is to protect the person who is in the protection program, anyone can go online and read what is said here.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: curls on March 16, 2011, 11:14:20 AM
Quote from: "Gema"

Imo, since we are building a theory regarding the FBI and not having their cooperation or involvement as a fact, is that, if FBI would have been behind this, we would not know on the 1st place.


I've been thinking the same thing as I put in bold above.  I thought the whole point of FBI activities was that they're secret.  Please, can someone put me straight if I'm wrong about that.

So, if they were/are involved and TS knows this, why would he reveal it to a public internet forum of all places?

If they weren't/aren't involved then TS is maybe using diversion tactics again. Remember he said he might go along with wrong theories as well as correct ones.

Or maybe TS doesn't KNOW the full story any more than any of us, and so is speculating himself.

I have to say I'm rather uncomfortable with this line of discussion.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: bec on March 16, 2011, 11:15:25 AM
Just checking in.

I've been on read only with the FBI thing because to me it's just not a plausible theory.

Carry on.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MJhunny on March 16, 2011, 11:17:00 AM
i have to agree , that FBI and secret need to go hand in hand...otherwise what would be the point?
TS please clear this up and put us on the right track! :D
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: _Anna_ on March 16, 2011, 11:31:33 AM
Quote from: "curls"

I've been thinking the same thing as I put in bold above.  I thought the whole point of FBI activities was that they're secret.  Please, can someone put me straight if I'm wrong about that.

So, if they were/are involved and TS knows this, why would he reveal it to a public internet forum of all places?

If they weren't/aren't involved then TS is maybe using diversion tactics again. Remember he said he might go along with wrong theories as well as correct ones.

Or maybe TS doesn't KNOW the full story any more than any of us, and so is speculating himself.
I have to say I'm rather uncomfortable with this line of discussion.

This is what I want to know too.
 Exposing  FBI's work publicly is the evidence of blackmail; which means disclosing certain informations (in this case informations that are KNOWN to be tomb secret- FBI) in order to get other informations you don't own, and blackmail is not a proof of good intentions at all.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: wishingstar on March 16, 2011, 12:37:46 PM
Quote from: "bec"
Just checking in.

I've been on read only with the FBI thing because to me it's just not a plausible theory.

Carry on.

I think I am kinda on that side too bec.....if it was an FBI thing, I doubt we would have been able to uncover so many "clues" or information as such.  I think it would be an open/closed book and not suspicious to anyone.  It's possible there is a connection, but I am not sure what....
Carrying on then ;)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: navibl on March 16, 2011, 12:39:55 PM
It is my understanding that once FBI files are released, they become public record.  Since 333 pages have been released that part is common knowledge.  the other 400 or so pages are still unknown and confidential.  As I had mention in an earlier post, I don't think Michael is involved in any kind of WPP or sting operation, but he very well could have the help of Ex FBI members and they themselves could have inside contact to help Michael faciliate the best posible way to make this whole effort look real to the unsuspecting public.  Therefore involving very select people with limited need to know information.

Also these undercover Ex officals could be gathering information vital to exposing corruption on a major scale.  Who is to say that the paramedics are not undercover ex agents that know and Love Michael and would do whatever necessary to keep him from harm.

Also those buried deep in these agencies there is corruption that has everything to do with NWO and the revelation of the Anti Christ which will be in power before the end of the Age.  I am certain Michael wants us to know who these people are so that we are not deceived by them.  He told Shmuley and I quote " I have seen the worst, the nightmare of the human condition, the human soul.  Of what I would never even think common man would be capable of behaving in such a way!" ....maybe what Michael saw was completely of the Anti Christ in these places.  So I don't think he would go put himself in the middle of the FBI and expect them to protect him.  I think TS is trying to get us to understand the relationship that has taken place and to what extent, it is piece by piece, layer by layer.

Michael associated himself with very high up officials....remember "keep your friends close and your enemies closer"  You have to get on the inside to know how they way work.  Like planting a "MOLE"
This whole thing has layers, it isn't about just ONE thing but layers of many things.  If not Michael wouldn't have spent years working on this.  He has patients indeed.

Has anyone paid attention to "Anonymous"?  They do not play!
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: ignisaeternus on March 16, 2011, 01:09:37 PM
I would think that in a sting operation such as this, the FBI would have access tow whatever resources needed.  If actors are hired (meaning professional actors)- that would mean contracts, - probably special ones with government enforeced gag-orders. It's one thing to keep your mouth shut being paid- it's quite another to be paid AND be motivated by not going to jail for violating an offical order.

Why would they have to hire professional actors, though?  I am sure the FBI has people they use in undercover work all the time. The paramedic, therfore could have been such personnel.  
My first thought was  that I doubted the "real" paramedics were used on this one.  Going with that- then it is also unlikely that the "real" ambulance 71 was used.  They might have noticed it missing.  Wait, never mind- they would also have noticed "their ambulance" being shown on tv.  Hm...So as I see it, there are several options (and this applies to both the 'pre-staging' and the ambulance used on 6/25):

1-Real paramedics, real ambulance- all on offical FBI business (therefore bound by their professional ethics etc AND probably offical gag-orders).
2-FBI personell and real ambulance (risky- unless again paramedics and "higher-ups" are involved- as questions would arise why "their ambulance was used on that  day w/o them being in it)
3-FBI and fake ambulance 71- again- there would have to be coverage for the fact that this is what was shown on tv
Looing at that- I now lean toward option 1.  And the bad driving could have been by design to leave a clue (or the real paramedics fogot to "acti" with a sense of urgency, since they knew no one was dying, and they forgot they had to "act as if.")
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MsTrinity333 on March 16, 2011, 01:12:27 PM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Quote from: "Im_convincedmjalive"
Ok I didn't realize you were gonna go there TS.  ;) I was trying to just stay on the subject of the paramedics but now that you opened up the direction of this to go towards the FBI being involved I am re-posting some info I have known about for a while now. I didn't want to get to ahead of the game, lol ...
[/color]

I brought the FBI in at this point for a few reasons, one of which was that people in this thread were already discussing possible government involvement.  Also, I intentionally posted the beginning of this thread at 3:33, as a clue about the 333 pages of FBI files--intending to bring the FBI in at some point in this thread.

The biggest reason I brought the FBI in at this point, though, is something that seems to have gotten lost or set aside in all the discussion of the FBI and other things.  So let's see if we can get back on track.  If the FBI is involved: would they hire actors and rent an ambulance, or would they cooperate with the real LAFD paramedics and use the actual #71 ambulance from Bel Air?

I'm going to say cooperation.  
Real paramedics wouldn't be allowed to speak about the events of that day if FBI was on hand or involved.
If the Paramedics were Govt agents they would not have said all those weird comments about not recognizing MJ & the room being so warm ... So that means real Paramedics sworn to silence of the events that day.

A few states, including California, Illinois, New York, and Texas, have their own witness protection programs for crimes not covered by the federal program. The state-run programs provide less extensive protections than the federal program. Is this a factor?

PS  The security tapes are still missing...

PPS  Thank you TS for reposting all the TIAI Revealed, Part 9: “Can Ye Not Discern the Signs of the Times?"
Revelation is one of my favorite books; I see what's happening in the World, the Middle East, Spain, Turkey and North Africa with all the unrest...looks like Ezk 37 & 38 are lining up.

It's all for L.O.V.E.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: SoldierofLOVE on March 16, 2011, 02:41:38 PM
(http://soundtrackbase.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/the-sting-soundtrack.jpg)

 :mrgreen:
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MJonmind on March 16, 2011, 02:46:40 PM
Gina, sorry for forgetting about time zones. :lol:

Bec, I have had my doubts since TS first said FBI was the how, and  I'm struggling with all those issues still, like secrecy and safety for Michael if its a sting operation. I just feel there's so much more info we are missing to understand this, and TS maybe will reveal more as we discuss every possible problem or possibility with the FBI, especially now that TMZ has mentioned them as involved in the court case with the fingerprinting of the syringe.

I liked that old movie, the Sting! and the song!
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: katy (MJFAN7) on March 16, 2011, 03:53:08 PM
Quote from: "wishingstar"
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Quote from: "Im_convincedmjalive"
Ok I didn't realize you were gonna go there TS.  ;) I was trying to just stay on the subject of the paramedics but now that you opened up the direction of this to go towards the FBI being involved I am re-posting some info I have known about for a while now. I didn't want to get to ahead of the game, lol ...
[/color]

I brought the FBI in at this point for a few reasons, one of which was that people in this thread were already discussing possible government involvement.  Also, I intentionally posted the beginning of this thread at 3:33, as a clue about the 333 pages of FBI files--intending to bring the FBI in at some point in this thread.

The biggest reason I brought the FBI in at this point, though, is something that seems to have gotten lost or set aside in all the discussion of the FBI and other things.  So let's see if we can get back on track.  If the FBI is involved: would they hire actors and rent an ambulance, or would they cooperate with the real LAFD paramedics and use the actual #71 ambulance from Bel Air?

If the FBI is truly involved with all this, I can't see them hiring actors and renting an ambulance.....even in Hollywood.  That would open themselves up to a lack of security within whatever operation they were running.  Any outsider would pose a security risk.  Things would have to be kept very tight and done from within.  That being said, even working with the LAFD would have created questions.  Security would have had to have been top priority.  The fact that the ambulance driver couldn't turn around should prove it was someone other than LAFD at the wheel.  
Blessings

If the real paramedics were involved, then wouldn't that risk them getting fired? :? and I agree with wishingstar, I don't think they would hire random actors. :? Maybe the paramedics were FBI Agents under disguise or something. :?  :)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: AnaMarcia on March 16, 2011, 04:11:53 PM
I remember reading in 2009, that Michael only had to disappear and the rest was all done by the FBI.
Perhaps Murray is an FBI agent, as well as paramedics, coroners and all witnesses.
The ambulance can be real, but everything belongs to the FBI. This explains many things in this hoax.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MissG on March 16, 2011, 04:42:46 PM
To me, Murray is not just a Doctor. He either witnessed something against Michael´s life or protected Michael. Murray FBI? no idea, but I can´t see that man as a murderer. Also, Murray´s clinic was set in land that was going to be bought against his will by a casino company (LunaJo´s videos explains this much beter than I do).

If La Toya is a police in Indiana, Michael could also be. Nothing will surprise me at this point.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on March 16, 2011, 05:11:28 PM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Quote from: "Im_convincedmjalive"
Ok I didn't realize you were gonna go there TS.  ;) I was trying to just stay on the subject of the paramedics but now that you opened up the direction of this to go towards the FBI being involved I am re-posting some info I have known about for a while now. I didn't want to get to ahead of the game, lol ...
[/color]

I brought the FBI in at this point for a few reasons, one of which was that people in this thread were already discussing possible government involvement.  Also, I intentionally posted the beginning of this thread at 3:33, as a clue about the 333 pages of FBI files--intending to bring the FBI in at some point in this thread.

The biggest reason I brought the FBI in at this point, though, is something that seems to have gotten lost or set aside in all the discussion of the FBI and other things.  So let's see if we can get back on track.  If the FBI is involved: would they hire actors and rent an ambulance, or would they cooperate with the real LAFD paramedics and use the actual #71 ambulance from Bel Air?
I do not think the FBI would hire actors and rent an ambulance because Michael took care of that part. I believe Michael staged the ambulance picture on a different day using actors dressed like paramedics in a different ambulance other than #71 but it was similiar enough to make the picture that we saw more legit. I also think the staged picture was done in a closed set, not at Carolwood.

I believe the FBI would cooperate with the real LAFD and visa versa. The real LAFD would cooperate with Michael and the FBI through one key person in the upper level and on a need to know basis. I believe the key person in LAFD is the Captian and under his direction the real paramedics in the real ambulance #71 from Bel Air responded and did their job like good employees. No questions asked and they did not need to know anything other than do your job.

The below 911 call was released by LAFD. I am adding that to the evidence pile for my theories and opinions. I also added a different version of the 911 call for comparison and contradiction in the way the call was answered by the dispatcher.

The 2nd video LAFD Capt. recalls Michael Jackson (MJ) events on June 25, 2009 with the 911 call has something interesting in it. The dispatcher answers the call by sayin Fire Paramedic 33...
8-)

[youtube:16r6qn8t]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oftybkF__uc[/youtube:16r6qn8t]
Quote
Uploaded by PoliticsNewsPolitics on Jun 26, 2009

The L.A. County Fire Department released the tape of the 911 call made when Michael Jackson went into cardiac arrest.
[youtube:16r6qn8t]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgD4COfhrLU&feature=related[/youtube:16r6qn8t]
Quote
I am adding this video also as evidence. I believe that this show had clues in it also. The fire captain is very suspect in my book. He seems to be acting. I think he is another key person. He would be the some of the paramedics in on it.
LAFD Capt. recalls Michael Jackson (MJ) events on June 25, 2009
[youtube:16r6qn8t]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggewNtwvHJ4&feature=related[/youtube:16r6qn8t]
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309781#p309781 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309781#p309781)
Quote
In this video the Captain is so precise on the time the 911 call was made. He even says it down to the seconds, lol
Below is some of the clue information I have used to come to my opinions and theories on this subject. ;)
 
Quote
TS wrote:
Now back to the “MJ Conspiracy” book and video. Quite obviously, there was a conspiracy against MJ, even though it wasn’t a murder conspiracy. And the testimony from Aphrodite shows that people involved in a conspiracy may not even know it themselves (only the upper levels understand). And even after she recognized the conspiracy, it seems that she only saw media and money as the source of the conspiracy—not the NWO powers controlling the media.
viewtopic.php?f=72&t=7194&start=0 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=7194&start=0)
Quote
TS wrote:
MJ has been planning this hoax for many years; and he had the time and influence to get a few key people in the right positions to pull it off—and yes, even government agencies still have some good people in them. Look at history: many times people in high positions have stood up against the corruption in their own system (government, or church, etc).
Quote
TS wrote:
But MJ did not involve large quantities of people. In fact, the “three-way theory” is basically correct http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpb ... 2&start=0; (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=5382&start=0;) this theory states that the fewer people “in on it”, the better (although more than three are actually involved, and the “three-way theory” does allow for more than three).

Also, as far as possible, legal loopholes were used. Nevertheless, with a hoax of this magnitude and importance: whether the line was ever crossed, between being inside or outside of legal loopholes, is a question that probably doesn’t even need to be answered.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
4-37. Hints on the “How’s” of the Hoax

In this update, I have gone into great detail about the timing of the hoax (as well as a few other aspects). Previously, I have gone into great detail about the reasons for the hoax http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpb ... 0&sr=posts (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/search.php?author_id=1440&sr=posts). That leaves only one frontier remaining: how did MJ succeed in pulling off this massive hoax?

I’m not going to go into great detail on that now, it would be very long—and this update is already the longest update by far. But I will give some hints, to help you go in the right direction if you want to investigate it further.

For starters, maybe it is time to create a sub-forum for Coherent Theories. By this, I mean theories that start putting all the pieces together, fitting into one bigger picture. But we can’t have MJ hopping on a plane at LAX, escaping out of a tunnel in the basement of UCLA, and riding alive in the helicopter to the coroner’s office, as well as in the other helicopter—all at the same time. This would not qualify as a coherent theory.

I think we already have a huge clue from Jermaine, telling us that MJ went to the “airport”—NOT the hospital. And in fact, it would’ve been very risky and unnecessary for him to ride alive in the ambulance to UCLA, and then go into UCLA where he could be easily recognized (and hard to play dead), and then try to escape somehow. What would be the point?

Based on the planned timing of the hoax, we should now be able to see very plainly that the living MJ body double theory doesn’t work. There is no chance that a living double just happened to die on the right year, the right day, and the right hour.

This leaves us with three possibilities. There was no body at all, which would require quite a few people to be “in on it”. There was a dummy, not a real human; this reduces the number of people “in on it”, and also makes it easy to duplicate the looks of MJ (but paramedics would need to be “in on it”, because they would not be fooled by a dummy). Or there was a real human corpse, which had recently died. In fact, at different times and places, there could’ve been more than one corpse and/or dummy used as needed.
Quote
TS wrote:
4-38. Only a Few Would Need to Be “In On It”

Let me also clue you in on a few tricks, so that only a relatively few people would need to be “in on it”. The endlessly discussed helicopter ride to the coroner: it could’ve had a living and/or a dead body in it, but not MJ; and yet none of the people in the copter, or working that situation, would’ve had any clue that MJ was alive.

All you would need to do is create a diversion for the media and public: the helicopter and all would be a big show for the media, while they transport the (supposedly) “real” MJ’s body in an unmarked vehicle—this would keep MJ’s body safer. And all the people “involved” in that diversion operation would play right along, and obey without question like good little boys and girls, thinking all the while that MJ’s dead body was being transported in some unmarked vehicle (and not even questioning whether or not MJ was actually dead). And even if they suspected later that MJ is alive, how would they know? They would not know, they would just suspect it (like hoax believers).

The fact that it’s a criminal case is another good alibi for secrecy and cover-up; this way, nobody thinks twice when they’re told not to talk about what they did or did not see at UCLA on June 25 (or other times and places).
[youtube:16r6qn8t]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMB5gfcVChg[/youtube:16r6qn8t]
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053)

viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185#p311394 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185#p311394)
In regards to the question why the paramedic drove slowly and backwards, my opinion is (see below):
Quote
IF Michael/the patient was already DOA when the paramedics got to the house and they tried to do CPR there for a good amount of time; the ambulance would not need to be in a hurry when leaving because the patient is already gone.
To the airport! lol
Also that was the diversion tactic for the media and public while I believe Michael slipped out a back gate and went to the AIRPORT.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: ignisaeternus on March 16, 2011, 07:56:21 PM
Quote from: "wishingstar"
Quote from: "bec"
Just checking in.

I've been on read only with the FBI thing because to me it's just not a plausible theory.

Carry on.

I think I am kinda on that side too bec.....if it was an FBI thing, I doubt we would have been able to uncover so many "clues" or information as such.  I think it would be an open/closed book and not suspicious to anyone.  It's possible there is a connection, but I am not sure what....
Carrying on then ;)
Why does it seem so improbable that Michael worked with the FBI? As I said, it seems to be the one theorie tying everything together.  It takes care of the "won't he get in trouble for doing ....(insert whatever we have questioned)" and "why weren't people fired for helping out," as well as "how do they keep quiet."  I think it is entirely possibly that Michael, who FOR YEARS has felt that people were out to kill him has convinced people in high places- and then their interests converged, and plans were  consolidated.  I don't think the FBI came up with all this- there is too much of Michael's genuis shining through.  But- he might have been in a position where he had the trading power needed, and therefore, the plan was excecuted with him as the planner on many things.  Also, the FBI theorie, as also stated explains why Michael might not be in total control as far as timing now.  We do not know what the overall goal was- but maybe that has not been accomplished and bringing him back too early would endanger his safety (as indicated by Teddy R).
Also, in a true sting, you leave enough things out there to intimidate your mark.  What is more intimidating than to feel somethings are not fitting- such as in the suspicious "death" of Michael.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: ignisaeternus on March 16, 2011, 07:58:04 PM
@ I'm convinced..

Quote
Also that was the diversion tactic for the media and public while I believe Michael slipped out a back gate and went to the AIRPORT.

ITA with this! Since they were so slow- Michael had ample time. Smoke and Mirrors to make the illusion work.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: bec on March 16, 2011, 08:42:11 PM
@ig, in my opinion the FBI angle is not plausible because of what MJonmind said already, the FBI does things in secret, and this hoax has been anything but. Little ol you and me aren't going to uncover anything the FBI is involved in from in front of our PCs.

Additionally, the FBI doesn't "go along with" anything for anyone, not even the President. It would be a huge security breech and GIANT waste of taxpayer funds not to mention Bureau attention and resources... my god... the political scandal would be catastrophic for the current administration. The GOP would eat it up as a way to CRUSH Obama in 2012.

It makes no sense.

If MJ were a FBI agent, and he was blowing his cover to a few thousand people on the internet he would be fired and possibly brought up on treason charges. Because you don't just get fired by the FBI, you face federal charges.

If the FBI were helping MJ, then he would be in the WPP and then he might as well be dead. No clues, no hints, no family acting weird, we would have real tears from the kids, real funeral, real memorial... he'd really be dead... to everyone. That's how the WPP works.

I haven't read a single thing in all these recent posts that makes me doubt myself on this for one second.

In fact, this very topic is the first thing that has given me a doubt about TS's legitimacy. That's pretty big because it's coming at a very late hour. But that's ok. I watch. And I read. And I wait.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: thecheetoman2004 on March 16, 2011, 08:48:56 PM
Like TS said earlier, the FBI is involved with more than just the WPP.

So if the FBI is involved, it doesn't necessarily mean that MJ is in the WPP.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: PureLove on March 16, 2011, 09:07:36 PM
Quote from: "wishingstar"
Quote from: "bec"
Just checking in.

I've been on read only with the FBI thing because to me it's just not a plausible theory.

Carry on.

I think I am kinda on that side too bec.....if it was an FBI thing, I doubt we would have been able to uncover so many "clues" or information as such.  I think it would be an open/closed book and not suspicious to anyone.  It's possible there is a connection, but I am not sure what....
Carrying on then ;)

I wrote this on Teddy Riley thread but I want to write it here too. Probably this can explain how we are getting the clues. I have another theory about who is pulling the strings. I believe that Michael planned everything for such a long time ago and gave the directions to some of the key people who are in on the hoax and told them exactly what to do and when. That is how we are getting the clues. But of course there are somethings happening without Michael's permission because not everyone knows that he is alive. Things are changing, plans are changing according to the situation like the BAM date. Probably Michael planned to come back way so much earlier but FBI didn't approve him to do that for his safety and they delayed the come back. I do not think everything is under Michael's control at the moment. Just the clues he wanted to give are given to us by the people that Michael chose.

Quote from: "Sarahli"

I think it makes more sense for the FBI to cooperate with the LAFD paramedics, they have the authority to do so and it would explain why the people involved can keep silent about this story and of course the event looks more authentic. Now i'm thinking that the less the people see and know the hows, the better. So i thought that maybe FBI agents "played" the paramedics and requisitioned the real ambulance? I also say that because of the way the driver of the ambulance maneuvered it, if it has not been done on purpose, then i would question if he's really a paramedic.

Exactly. I do believe that there are just some key people in these authorities who know what's going on. I remember we discuss about if the trial is real or fake. I do believe that there're key people who knows the truth in the courtroom but not everyone there is aware of the situation. This goes with all the authorities who are involved with the hoax. And like you wrote, the less people know about the hoax, the better.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Andrea on March 16, 2011, 09:25:45 PM
Quote from: "bec"
@ig, in my opinion the FBI angle is not plausible because of what MJonmind said already, the FBI does things in secret, and this hoax has been anything but. Little ol you and me aren't going to uncover anything the FBI is involved in from in front of our PCs.

Additionally, the FBI doesn't "go along with" anything for anyone, not even the President. It would be a huge security breech and GIANT waste of taxpayer funds not to mention Bureau attention and resources... my god... the political scandal would be catastrophic for the current administration. The GOP would eat it up as a way to CRUSH Obama in 2012.

It makes no sense.

If MJ were a FBI agent, and he was blowing his cover to a few thousand people on the internet he would be fired and possibly brought up on treason charges. Because you don't just get fired by the FBI, you face federal charges.

If the FBI were helping MJ, then he would be in the WPP and then he might as well be dead. No clues, no hints, no family acting weird, we would have real tears from the kids, real funeral, real memorial... he'd really be dead... to everyone. That's how the WPP works.

I haven't read a single thing in all these recent posts that makes me doubt myself on this for one second.

In fact, this very topic is the first thing that has given me a doubt about TS's legitimacy. That's pretty big because it's coming at a very late hour. But that's ok. I watch. And I read. And I wait.

I read your post a couple of times bec and it made me think.  TS brought up the FBI because...he was waiting for someone else to throw it out there but nobody did.  There have been all sorts of theories flying around about the ambulance photo, the leaves, the paramedics, etc - it might be reasonable to assume that someone would have brought up the FBI, considering they released the 333 pages on 12/21/09 (or were supposed to but it was the next day) and 12:21 is the time of the 911 call (as we all know). And numerology is big here, someone should have drawn the conclusion of the FBI's involvement, whether it's right or wrong.  But nobody did, so TS did and probably didn't want to be the one to do it.  But no one else was.

TS wrote in the TIAI Feb 26th thread:
Quote
I may challenge true theories, and/or I may lend support to false theories. In fact, I will usually have at least two different theories for each step.

So, if an FBI discussion is what was supposed to happen, like it's happening now, is this TS lending support to a false theory or no?  And if yes, why talk about the FIB, I mean, FBI?  Just another obstacle in the game?  And TMZ brings up the FBI in a Michael article today.  My feeling is that - yes, this is a hoax and Michael is alive BUT just because we know this, we're not necessarily above getting our heads messed with, just like the rest of the world gets their heads messed with for so many things.  Not done meanly, but to prove a point or something.

Or, maybe Michael is with Mulder and Scully because the truth is out there.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: bec on March 16, 2011, 09:31:21 PM
Quote from: "Andrea"
Quote from: "bec"
@ig, in my opinion the FBI angle is not plausible because of what MJonmind said already, the FBI does things in secret, and this hoax has been anything but. Little ol you and me aren't going to uncover anything the FBI is involved in from in front of our PCs.

Additionally, the FBI doesn't "go along with" anything for anyone, not even the President. It would be a huge security breech and GIANT waste of taxpayer funds not to mention Bureau attention and resources... my god... the political scandal would be catastrophic for the current administration. The GOP would eat it up as a way to CRUSH Obama in 2012.

It makes no sense.

If MJ were a FBI agent, and he was blowing his cover to a few thousand people on the internet he would be fired and possibly brought up on treason charges. Because you don't just get fired by the FBI, you face federal charges.

If the FBI were helping MJ, then he would be in the WPP and then he might as well be dead. No clues, no hints, no family acting weird, we would have real tears from the kids, real funeral, real memorial... he'd really be dead... to everyone. That's how the WPP works.

I haven't read a single thing in all these recent posts that makes me doubt myself on this for one second.

In fact, this very topic is the first thing that has given me a doubt about TS's legitimacy. That's pretty big because it's coming at a very late hour. But that's ok. I watch. And I read. And I wait.

I read your post a couple of times bec and it made me think.  TS brought up the FBI because...he was waiting for someone else to throw it out there but nobody did.  There have been all sorts of theories flying around about the ambulance photo, the leaves, the paramedics, etc - it might be reasonable to assume that someone would have brought up the FBI, considering they released the 333 pages on 12/21/09 (or were supposed to but it was the next day) and 12:21 is the time of the 911 call (as we all know). And numerology is big here, someone should have drawn the conclusion of the FBI's involvement, whether it's right or wrong.  But nobody did, so TS did and probably didn't want to be the one to do it.  But no one else was.

TS wrote in the TIAI Feb 26th thread:
Quote
I may challenge true theories, and/or I may lend support to false theories. In fact, I will usually have at least two different theories for each step.

So, if an FBI discussion is what was supposed to happen, like it's happening now, is this TS lending support to a false theory or no?  And if yes, why talk about the FIB, I mean, FBI?  Just another obstacle in the game?  And TMZ brings up the FBI in a Michael article today.  My feeling is that - yes, this is a hoax and Michael is alive BUT just because we know this, we're not necessarily above getting our heads messed with, just like the rest of the world gets their heads messed with for so many things.  Not done meanly, but to prove a point or something.

Or, maybe Michael is with Mulder and Scully because the truth is out there.

Aha!

Funny but true. I was watching X-Files reruns the other day and realized... that's what we do. Mulder is the original hoaxer. No wonder I always dug that show.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Andrea on March 16, 2011, 09:38:59 PM
Bec - I've always loved the X Files too.  I have a couple seasons on DVD, might be interesting to watch them again and see what sort of weird hoax stuff there is to find.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on March 16, 2011, 10:05:10 PM
Quote from: "ignisaeternus"
@ I'm convinced..

Quote
Also that was the diversion tactic for the media and public while I believe Michael slipped out a back gate and went to the AIRPORT.

ITA with this! Since they were so slow- Michael had ample time. Smoke and Mirrors to make the illusion work.
I agree with this.
Quote
ignisaeternus wrote:
Also, in a true sting, you leave enough things out there to intimidate your mark.

All the contradictions are to confuse the enemy. Also IF anything was to happen to Michael now or after the BAM: WE the PUBLIC would be on the case and say HEY what is UP? I also believe this is part of the reason Michael wanted us (death hoax investigators and the non-hoax fans) to be INVOLVED so it gives him more protection. It also makes more people aware of WTF he has been saying for years. His "death" has our ATTENTION! :shock:  8-)

The more people looking into it is all the better.

I also don't get why some people find it hard to believe that Michael has INFLUENCE over key people.  8-)  ;) Given his HIStory with the police/armies of other nations/countries gaurding him during his concerts or outings. Think about all the traveling he has done, who he has met and been photographed with.[/b] ;)  8-)
[youtube:1l2h4mbu]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iVRKUGv9iw&feature=channel_video_title[/youtube:1l2h4mbu]

Side Note: Kenny did say something about equipment arriving. Maybe that was the fake ambulance? :?:
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on March 16, 2011, 11:02:20 PM
God does play a huge factor in this. For those who believe in the spiritual side should recognize what Michael the Archangel means to the following people below. I am not meaning for this to go this direction but it is something that I find relevant when it comes to Michael and his influence over the police, etc. The first link does have some dyslexic typos in the name Michael, lol. This has been talked about before on this forum many times. Michael has also had paintings done of himself playing the role of Archangel.

http://www.publicsafety.net/st_micheal.htm (http://www.publicsafety.net/st_micheal.htm)
Quote
The Public Safety Net
Saint Micheal The Archangel
The Patron Saint of the Police Officers, Paramedics & E.M.T.'s
http://www.policecoins.com/saintmichael.html (http://www.policecoins.com/saintmichael.html)

(http://www.policecoins.com/images/SaintMichael170.jpg)
Quote
Saint Michael, the Patron Saint of Law Enforcement

As protector and defender against evil, Saint Michael is the patron saint for law enforcement, and among the most common of the icons used on police coins. He is usually depicted as a winged knight-warrior, wearing battle armor. He wields a sword and holds scales of justice, while standing triumphantly over a fallen Lucifer.

Ok that is all for me on that subject. I would like to see more theories or opinions on the paramedics and the question TS has asked us recently.

Peace
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 17, 2011, 12:12:15 AM
I don't think the FBI story is BS, because in my opinion there is no other way than them being involved. That was obvious since the release of the 333 pages on 12/21.

I am not sure how that works with secrecy, but I think this started way before 2009, maybe it is part of the plan now to let go some stuff. Maybe there is a deal: he helps them bust the bad guys, if they help him with all this. If this has been a long project, it seems reasonable.

I am still wondering though what Mike's role was; informant or agent. Wasn't Elvis an agent too? Any light on that TS?

ps. you got yourself a whole new elvisandmj-page. I owed you that after you got me those fantastic glasses.  8-)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: TS_comments on March 17, 2011, 12:17:25 AM
Without quoting anyone specific, I will give my answers here to things that have been asked or stated by several hoax members about the FBI.

First, I am not the one to initiate FBI or government involvement.  This is a theory that has been around pretty much from the beginning.  Souza has had the FBI on the home page for a long time: "If he has the FBI on his side, a lot can be done." {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/recap_english.php}.

Second, I never said that everyone in the entire FBI organization is involved.  I have always said MJ was planning this for years, and got a few key people in a few key positions to cooperate with him.  Notice that this is possible with the structure of the FBI: "The article went on to also blame the FBI's decentralized structure which prevented effective communication and cooperation between different FBI offices. The article also claimed that the FBI has still not evolved into an effective counterterrorism or counterintelligence agency, due in large part to deeply ingrained cultural resistance to change within the FBI." {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fbi}.

Third, as I have said a few times already in this thread: the Elvis connection answers much of these objections--including the idea that there would be 100% secrecy, and no clues.  Elvis had government help, that is unquestionably established not only from Linda's website--but just about anyone else who talks about the Elvis case.  Also, originally Elvis had only six people in on it--and they were not all government agents.  Therefore, all the people in all the government agencies were not in on it.

Fourth, if the FBI is involved, why would TS expose this publicly on the internet?  Again, look at the Elvis case.  Why does Linda's website publicly expose the fact that government agents helped Elvis in the past and recently?  Is Linda's website putting anyone in danger?  No.  Why not?  Because the general public has never heard of her website; and of the few who do see it, many still don't believe it.  Same for this MJ hoax website.  It is not getting millions of hits a day (not yet, anyway   :shock: ).  Few are watching, most of which are merely forum members here; and even some of those don't believe what I am saying about the FBI.

Fifth, there is more than one way to skin a cat.  So let's look at it from the other side of the coin.  If the FBI did not help out, then how could the Bel Air station not know something is fishy?  Would they sit by quietly, and say nothing, while MJ hired actors and rented an ambulance to look just like the LAFD #71 ambulance?  And why would the LAFD Captain say {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggewNtwvHJ4}: "On June 25, 2009, LAFD responded ... our paramedic ..."--if indeed the LAFD did NOT respond, and it was merely actors in a rented ambulance?

Do you think professionals could ALL be bought out for money?  And when the truth came out, wouldn't there be serious consequences for all of them?  Do you think they would not be charged with abuse of public office--ESPECIALLY if they got paid for it?  Can they get out of it all, by saying that it was all just for a movie--and this or that legal loophole squeaks them by?  Did you know that legal loopholes do not prevent people from getting charged with a crime?  Did you know that loopholes may not even prevent someone from being convicted of a crime?  Different people interpret the law differently; that is why there are lawyers and judges and juries.

However, if key people in the FBI are cooperating with LAFD and MJ: then when the truth comes out, all they have to do is show success in catching some public corruption through this process--and all is well that ends well.  After all, once again, that is their "top priority among criminal investigations" {http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption}.

Finally: is this hoax a prank, or a Thriller II reality movie, or an ARG, or a sting operation, or a Vendetta, or an NWO/EOW warning, or a wake-up call to the gullible public (don't believe everything in the media), etc--which is it?  And the answer is: all of the above!  It is something that people have never seen before, at least not the combination of these things and on this scale.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Its her on March 17, 2011, 12:20:56 AM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
I brought the FBI in at this point for a few reasons, one of which was that people in this thread were already discussing possible government involvement.  Also, I intentionally posted the beginning of this thread at 3:33, as a clue about the 333 pages of FBI files--intending to bring the FBI in at some point in this thread.

The biggest reason I brought the FBI in at this point, though, is something that seems to have gotten lost or set aside in all the discussion of the FBI and other things.  So let's see if we can get back on track.  If the FBI is involved: would they hire actors and rent an ambulance, or would they cooperate with the real LAFD paramedics and use the actual #71 ambulance from Bel Air?

O-mi-GOSH, I feel like a COMPLETE idiot!  :oops:  :oops:  :x  THAT is EXACTLY WHY the Agents are un- identifiable in the ambulance pictures!!!! Those two, at least are probably undercover AGENTS.

omg, WHAT a dim wit---I've been working TOO hard!!! :lol: (Or maybe just in forced denial that this could REALLY,  :? come on, be anything but a big ARG?  :( )

I KNOW this  :geek:  :roll:  :oops: !! I used to work for the gosh-dernt Police!  :roll:

It is a FACT that Federal agents command and assist operations ALL the TIME, with state and local Law Enforcement! I worked for an agency for three years, during which time, if the FBI requested evidence, the protocol was to drop all other work to prepare packets for the agent(s). Mine was not field work. I forgot about hiding the agents' faces. They even mask them when they testify in court, when they are undercover people; not all are.

Certainly this changes everything on the 25th: NO SAG actors, but Law Enforcement personnel, only. No secrecy concerns, all officers take an oath for their career. They can be prosecuted and fired for compromising security.

No John Q. Public ride-alongs during a real Op, either, so... There were probably not even real paramedics on board, as police officers are all trained in lifesaving technique, and they were in a fully stocked REAL ambulance then, as well, if things went awry. The only reason real EMTs would be used is if their patient in the vehicle was a genuine "touch and go" patient.

omg, I never let myself think this seriously about this "Death Adventure" of MJ's...

Bec, TS could be pulling our legs, here, but, I have to tell you, THIS  :shock: angle makes better sense than ANY theory so far! (Man, I wish I could have beat TS to the punch on this one!! ;) )

Forget about the "Top Secret" business. TS is NOT compromising any operation at this point, two years (almost) later. We still don't know juicy details, like names. We don't even know which crimial activity was being set up for a takedown. ALL we know is that the FBI probably were the ones to spirit MJ away into Invisibility  that day. Sometimes magicians work together, what can I say?   ;)

Security has not been breeched. TS probably DOES stand for "Top Secret", if he has been sitting on a bomb like this,  THIS LONG!! 8-) Holy MOLEY, I have to rethink some things.

This is exactly how police agencies work in tandem with each other. Now, I believe the Hospital Security was involved as well, which I thought was too "messy" before. It is extremely tight and clean that only a few L.E. were involved, including sworn Hospital Security.

 :shock: Perhaps the FBI was picking someone UP from hospital, some V.I.P.,  FOR WPP, and the MAGIC was in all eyes being on

MICHAEL JACKSON :!:

Oh my, this could have global significance!! Perhaps this is the reason for all that "DOUBLES" talk here on the Forum. Maybe MJ was the decoy,  :o instead of the other way around!! Man, what a story...

Maybe this is why so many of us have had gut  :o feelings to be praying for things to go right and "SAFE HOME", all this time, even though MJ (I thought) has been putting out songs and making feature length and short films, appearing that all is well!

Maybe this is why Ms. Katherine has been so teary-eyed, when interviewed! even though she KNOWS MJ is alive. You know you cried, too, during Oprah.

One of my all time questions, WHAT is she crying real tears about (and  :cry: scaring me!) for??? This is why her tears are real.

Ohhh.  :| It is coming together, piece by piece, eh?

It ALL makes sense. Hero! 8-) I bet his family, especially DAD, is BURSTING  :cry: with pride. :D  :D  
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: ~Souza~ on March 17, 2011, 12:22:37 AM
I really don't know if the paramedics would be real, but since the judge and the attorneys are, they probably are also. I just don't know much about the FBI other then what my movie collection shows me. But when you think that the LAPD is involved big time (just look at the memorial) and the FBI is the higher authority, they NEED to be in. But how? I really haven't got a clue...
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: steffymjlove on March 17, 2011, 12:24:28 AM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Without quoting anyone specific, I will give my answers here to things that have been asked or stated by several hoax members about the FBI.

First, I am not the one to initiate FBI or government involvement.  This is a theory that has been around pretty much from the beginning.  Souza has had the FBI on the home page for a long time: "If he has the FBI on his side, a lot can be done." {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/recap_english.php}.

Second, I never said that everyone in the entire FBI organization is involved.  I have always said MJ was planning this for years, and got a few key people in a few key positions to cooperate with him.  Notice that this is possible with the structure of the FBI: "The article went on to also blame the FBI's decentralized structure which prevented effective communication and cooperation between different FBI offices. The article also claimed that the FBI has still not evolved into an effective counterterrorism or counterintelligence agency, due in large part to deeply ingrained cultural resistance to change within the FBI." {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fbi}.

Third, as I have said a few times already in this thread: the Elvis connection answers much of these objections--including the idea that there would be 100% secrecy, and no clues.  Elvis had government help, that is unquestionably established not only from Linda's website--but just about anyone else who talks about the Elvis case.  Also, originally Elvis had only six people in on it--and they were not all government agents.  Therefore, all the people in all the government agencies were not in on it.

Fourth, if the FBI is involved, why would TS expose this publicly on the internet?  Again, look at the Elvis case.  Why does Linda's website publicly expose the fact that government agents helped Elvis in the past and recently?  Is Linda's website putting anyone in danger?  No.  Why not?  Because the general public has never heard of her website; and of the few who do see it, many still don't believe it.  Same for this MJ hoax website.  It is not getting millions of hits a day (not yet, anyway   :shock: ).  Few are watching, most of which are merely forum members here; and even some of those don't believe what I am saying about the FBI.

Fifth, there is more than one way to skin a cat.  So let's look at it from the other side of the coin.  If the FBI did not help out, then how could the Bel Air station not know something is fishy?  Would they sit by quietly, and say nothing, while MJ hired actors and rented an ambulance to look just like the LAFD #71 ambulance?  And why would the LAFD Captain say {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggewNtwvHJ4}: "On June 25, 2009, LAFD responded ... our paramedic ..."--if indeed the LAFD did NOT respond, and it was merely actors in a rented ambulance?

Do you think professionals could ALL be bought out for money?  And when the truth came out, wouldn't there be serious consequences for all of them?  Do you think they would not be charged with abuse of public office--ESPECIALLY if they got paid for it?  Can they get out of it all, by saying that it was all just for a movie--and this or that legal loophole squeaks them by?  Did you know that legal loopholes do not prevent people from getting charged with a crime?  Did you know that loopholes may not even prevent someone from being convicted of a crime?  Different people interpret the law differently; that is why there are lawyers and judges and juries.

However, if key people in the FBI are cooperating with LAFD and MJ: then when the truth comes out, all they have to do is show success in catching some public corruption through this process--and all is well that ends well.  After all, once again, that is their "top priority among criminal investigations" {http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption}.

Finally: is this hoax a prank, or a Thriller II reality movie, or an ARG, or a sting operation, or a Vendetta, or an NWO/EOW warning, or a wake-up call to the gullible public (don't believe everything in the media), etc--which is it?  And the answer is: all of the above!  It is something that people have never seen before, at least not the combination of these things and on this scale.

Thank you.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: onthewingsoflove on March 17, 2011, 12:55:42 AM
Quote from: "TS_comments"

Finally: is this hoax a prank, or a Thriller II reality movie, or an ARG, or a sting operation, or a Vendetta, or an NWO/EOW warning, or a wake-up call to the gullible public (don't believe everything in the media), etc--which is it?  And the answer is: all of the above!  It is something that people have never seen before, at least not the combination of these things and on this scale.


Well now this takes me back full circle to my thoughts on why Police Chief Bratton suddenly announced his resignation in August 2009. I felt then that this hoax had something to do with that and with all that is listed above, I am more convinced now than ever!

Stay Blessed!

OnTheWingsOfLove
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Yambo3003 on March 17, 2011, 01:13:52 AM
I still can't foresee the conclusion of this story. Maybe after 20+ months too much data has corrupted my brain and took away my sight. I'm trying to connect some dots here and see the big picture. How will MJ return and what will be presented to the world? Who or what will be expose? I can't imagine just a simple speech in a podium. There's got to be more. In order for all of this to make sense something bigger than a presidential election must transpire.

We know evil is out there...awareness? Maybe something specific or a target? Our beloved MJ can do great things and had done many in the past. Can he break the silence and speak a revelation? I think he can with the help of God. But I'm still blind reading about the FBI involvement with the hoax. Not that I don't believe in their involvement but my stomach is still hungry. I guess I have to wait patiently and take a number. What's next?

(http://www.uslightingproducts.com/images/2dig.gif)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 17, 2011, 01:19:45 AM
@TS - What else can I say except that I totally agree with your last post. I hope we are not wrong, as nothing is 100% sure though.

Quote from: "TS_comments"

Finally: is this hoax a prank, or a Thriller II reality movie, or an ARG, or a sting operation, or a Vendetta, or an NWO/EOW warning, or a wake-up call to the gullible public (don't believe everything in the media), etc--which is it?  And the answer is: all of the above!  It is something that people have never seen before, at least not the combination of these things and on this scale.

I have something to say about this.  
I don't think FBI's agenda includes a wake-up call to the gullible public or a prank or an ARG (maybe only for researches about the human behaviour).
That's why, in spite of the fact that FBI involvement might lead us to believe that FBI is the main "actor" in charge with the hoax, I have this feeling that the master of everything is still MJ.
MJ is somehow using FBI for his own agenda but I don't know how he convinced them to be in.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: wishingstar on March 17, 2011, 01:22:52 AM
Michael told us in TII he wanted to take us places we have never been before, show us talent like we've never seen before...it's all an adventure, nothing to be afraid of......
Well TS.....you mentioned 7 different things this hoax is:
a prank
a movie
an ARG
a sting
a vendetta
a warning
a wake-up call
It is all of that and more.  To those who have invested the time and effort on forums, videos, blogs and other online avenues, it's been a life-changing adventure.  I feel like I have been in the longest running movie in history with the largest cast ever assembled.  Thank you for the post TS.  As usual, you make very valid points.  With regards to the catching of some public corruption through this process....I lean towards exposing the Doctor Feelgoods of the world.  Michael's death has naturally shed a light on that seedy side of life.  Just like his arrest shed light on child abuse.  What more can he give?  HIStory is being written as we type and as we talk.  I am blessed to be a very minuscule part of it all.

Blessing to you all and thank you!
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 17, 2011, 01:25:16 AM
Of course, I must add that everything still looks like brilliant science-fiction.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: 2good2btrue on March 17, 2011, 01:45:57 AM
Thanks heaps TS...the answers were always so simple, and have been there from the start......feel like we are going full circle here...

Remember this article from TMZ...it already suggested that the SWAT team and Los Angeles police department were involved........

Quote
"It's the answer to the question you were kinda curious about, then forgot about, but now you're like "Holy cow, I really wanna know -- how did Michael Jackson's body seemingly disappear after his memorial, only to reappear at the cemetery?"

On July 7, 2009 the Staples Center memorial was held in front of thousands of people in downtown L.A. -- Jackson's body was ensconced in a $25,000 red casket.

After the memorial, although hundreds of cameras and thousands of eyes were trained on the exits, no one saw any evidence that the casket left the building. It fueled a grassy knoll-type theory that Jackson's body wasn't really inside the casket and maybe he was still alive.

Finally, our spies have come clean. Jackson's body did indeed arrive in a hearse, but it left in a SWAT van. The van was driven to a secret location, where it rendezvoused with a Forest Lawn van -- which then transported the body to the cemetery without being noticed.

You're welcome".
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=8529&hilit=coffin+mystery+solved (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=8529&hilit=coffin+mystery+solved)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Im_convincedmjalive on March 17, 2011, 02:02:13 AM
Quote
"TS_comments" wrote:
Without quoting anyone specific, I will give my answers here to things that have been asked or stated by several hoax members about the FBI.

First, I am not the one to initiate FBI or government involvement.  This is a theory that has been around pretty much from the beginning.  Souza has had the FBI on the home page for a long time: "If he has the FBI on his side, a lot can be done." {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/recap_english.php}.
I agree.
Quote
Second, I never said that everyone in the entire FBI organization is involved.  I have always said MJ was planning this for years, and got a few key people in a few key positions to cooperate with him.  Notice that this is possible with the structure of the FBI: "The article went on to also blame the FBI's decentralized structure which prevented effective communication and cooperation between different FBI offices. The article also claimed that the FBI has still not evolved into an effective counterterrorism or counterintelligence agency, due in large part to deeply ingrained cultural resistance to change within the FBI." {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fbi}.
I agree.
Quote
Third, as I have said a few times already in this thread: the Elvis connection answers much of these objections--including the idea that there would be 100% secrecy, and no clues.  Elvis had government help, that is unquestionably established not only from Linda's website--but just about anyone else who talks about the Elvis case.  Also, originally Elvis had only six people in on it--and they were not all government agents.  Therefore, all the people in all the government agencies were not in on it.

I agree. I have read her website and I also know that he has wrote that he found people from different states that he trusted who were loyal.
http://lindahoodsigmontruth.com/page33 (http://lindahoodsigmontruth.com/page33)
(http://tiptopwebsite.com/photos4/lindahoodsigmoncom/Jessetypedintroductiontothebook.jpg)
Quote
Fourth, if the FBI is involved, why would TS expose this publicly on the internet?  Again, look at the Elvis case.  Why does Linda's website publicly expose the fact that government agents helped Elvis in the past and recently?  Is Linda's website putting anyone in danger?  No.  Why not?  Because the general public has never heard of her website; and of the few who do see it, many still don't believe it.  Same for this MJ hoax website.  It is not getting millions of hits a day (not yet, anyway   :shock: ).  Few are watching, most of which are merely forum members here; and even some of those don't believe what I am saying about the FBI.
I agree. People don't want to see the truth even if it is slapping them in the face. Denial is their best friend and also it helps to protect him and Linda at the same time. Doubters make this work. This same theory also protects MJ.
Quote
Fifth, there is more than one way to skin a cat.  So let's look at it from the other side of the coin.  If the FBI did not help out, then how could the Bel Air station not know something is fishy?  Would they sit by quietly, and say nothing, while MJ hired actors and rented an ambulance to look just like the LAFD #71 ambulance?  And why would the LAFD Captain say {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggewNtwvHJ4}: "On June 25, 2009, LAFD responded ... our paramedic ..."--if indeed the LAFD did NOT respond, and it was merely actors in a rented ambulance?
One of my favorite lines! I already said my theory regarding the Fire Captian.
Quote
Do you think professionals could ALL be bought out for money?  And when the truth came out, wouldn't there be serious consequences for all of them?  Do you think they would not be charged with abuse of public office--ESPECIALLY if they got paid for it?  Can they get out of it all, by saying that it was all just for a movie--and this or that legal loophole squeaks them by?  Did you know that legal loopholes do not prevent people from getting charged with a crime?  Did you know that loopholes may not even prevent someone from being convicted of a crime?  Different people interpret the law differently; that is why there are lawyers and judges and juries.
:| No comment needed here.
Quote
However, if key people in the FBI are cooperating with LAFD and MJ: then when the truth comes out, all they have to do is show success in catching some public corruption through this process--and all is well that ends well.  After all, once again, that is their "top priority among criminal investigations" {http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption}.
I agree.
Quote
Finally: is this hoax a prank, or a Thriller II reality movie, or an ARG, or a sting operation, or a Vendetta, or an NWO/EOW warning, or a wake-up call to the gullible public (don't believe everything in the media), etc--which is it?  And the answer is: all of the above!  It is something that people have never seen before, at least not the combination of these things and on this scale.
I agree 100% on this. Reality TV is the thing to do now a days. I agree this has never been done on this scale with the topics being presented.

Thanks for your patience and answers TS.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_television (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_television)
Quote
Reality television is a genre of television programming that presents purportedly unscripted dramatic or humorous situations, documents actual events, and usually features ordinary people instead of professional actors, sometimes in a contest or other situation where a prize is awarded.The genre has existed in some form or another since the early years of television, began in earnest as a television formula in the 1990s, and exploded as a global phenomenon around 1999-2000, via series such as Big Brother and Survivor. Programs in the reality television genre are commonly called reality shows and often are produced in series. Documentaries and nonfictional programming such as news and sports shows are usually not classified as reality shows.

The genre covers a wide range of programming formats, from game or quiz shows which resemble the frantic, often demeaning shows produced in Japan in the 1980s and 1990s (such as Gaki no tsukai), to surveillance- or voyeurism-focused productions such as Big Brother.

Reality television frequently portrays a modified and highly influenced form of reality, utilizing sensationalism to attract viewers and so to generate advertising profits. Participants are often placed in exotic locations or abnormal situations, and are sometimes coached to act in specific scripted ways by off-screen "story editors" or "segment producers," with the portrayal of events and speech manipulated and contrived to create an illusion of reality through editing and other post-production techniques.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: _Anna_ on March 17, 2011, 02:20:18 AM
Quote from: "TS_comments"

Do you think professionals could ALL be bought out for money?  And when the truth came out, wouldn't there be serious consequences for all of them?  Do you think they would not be charged with abuse of public office--ESPECIALLY if they got paid for it?Can they get out of it all, by saying that it was all just for a movie--and this or that legal loophole squeaks them by?  Did you know that legal loopholes do not prevent people from getting charged with a crime?  Did you know that loopholes may not even prevent someone from being convicted of a crime? Different people interpret the law differently; that is why there are lawyers and judges and juries.

I need some clearance on this, as this thing interests me the most. Legality.


1."Do you think professionals could ALL be bought out for money?"- were they brought out for money, in first place? that means FBI's proffesionals are used with corruption, because why would you pay  them to do your work if you need them for a correct purpose?(I'm not talking about salary here)

2."Do you think they would not be charged with abuse of public office--ESPECIALLY if they got paid for it?"- Again, FBI is used to reveal corruption but they are used via corruption themselves?I don't understand. Being paid for it IS corruption (I'm not talking about salary or being paid for your work here, you understand what I mean?)

3."Can they get out of it all, by saying that it was all just for a movie--and this or that legal loophole squeaks them by?  Did you know that legal loopholes do not prevent people from getting charged with a crime?  Did you know that loopholes may not even prevent someone from being convicted of a crime? "- Again, who commited a crime? Michael or the ones involved (being paid for doing something against law)?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MJonmind on March 17, 2011, 02:25:57 AM
Quote
TS
Finally: is this hoax a prank, or a Thriller II reality movie, or an ARG, or a sting operation, or a Vendetta, or an NWO/EOW warning, or a wake-up call to the gullible public (don't believe everything in the media), etc--which is it? And the answer is: all of the above! It is something that people have never seen before, at least not the combination of these things and on this scale.
That's why we've been glued to our computer chairs all this time. :shock:  :)  And it's just so out there that nobody else will believe this is huge. They've been innoculated.

wishingstar, cool that there's 7 things TS gave as to what the hoax is. Something you said made me stop and think.
"Just like his arrest shed light on child abuse". Its Her hinted at something else going down back then and I agree, just as Bec thinks about the Pepsi fire incident, there's a larger purpose that is mind-blowing, and it's going about things different than any person would ever think to do it. It's like laying down your life and reputation, so that others can have life, laying it down voluntarily for love. If having the world hate him as a pedofile would help the world focus on the plight of millions of children who are horrifically treated, he would do it. We don't even understand a love like that. Doesn't he care about his reputation? He has entrusted it into God's care, for God to give vengeance, but he is heaping coals of fire on the heads of those who revile him. The world has had their time to spit on him, make fun of him, but the seed has been planted and will yeild a harvest unprecedented of good overcoming evil.

Quote from: "Im_convincedmjalive"
God does play a huge factor in this. For those who believe in the spiritual side should recognize what Michael the Archangel means to the following people below. I am not meaning for this to go this direction but it is something that I find relevant when it comes to Michael and his influence over the police, etc. The first link does have some dyslexic typos in the name Michael, lol. This has been talked about before on this forum many times. Michael has also had paintings done of himself playing the role of Archangel.

http://www.publicsafety.net/st_micheal.htm (http://www.publicsafety.net/st_micheal.htm)
Quote
The Public Safety Net
Saint Micheal The Archangel
The Patron Saint of the Police Officers, Paramedics & E.M.T.'s
http://www.policecoins.com/saintmichael.html (http://www.policecoins.com/saintmichael.html)

(http://www.policecoins.com/images/SaintMichael170.jpg)
Quote
Saint Michael, the Patron Saint of Law Enforcement

As protector and defender against evil, Saint Michael is the patron saint for law enforcement, and among the most common of the icons used on police coins. He is usually depicted as a winged knight-warrior, wearing battle armor. He wields a sword and holds scales of justice, while standing triumphantly over a fallen Lucifer.

Ok that is all for me on that subject. I would like to see more theories or opinions on the paramedics and the question TS has asked us recently.

Peace
For me it always comes back to this and much more. Im_convinced, you know what I feel about all this. It's the only answer that satisfies what I feel in my heart. Jesus told Pilate, "You would have no authority unless it had been given from above." And one of the redirects was Daniel saying, "God shut the mouths of the lions and they have not hurt me."
So I can see then that like TS says only a few good people need to be knowing from the FBI, a few good people from the LAPD, a few from UCLA, a few from TII production, a few from Sony/AEG, a few from the media, a few good friends, his family (I'm guessing all). It seems to me to be rather of a miraculous nature that all these people have kept their mouths shut as well, and because of the way the hoax has been created, even if individual guess things or spill too many beans, that nobody believes them anyway. Perhaps coupling with God's provision of these key people, God has also put a veil over the eyes of the world to not see things clearly. Throughout the Bible God is said to have a veil over all people until the right (end) time when He takes the veil away and people can see. (I've written a post about that and the veil pulled back in the painting of Michael with the book and key.)

Quote
by Yambo3003 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:13 am

I still can't foresee the conclusion of this story. Maybe after 20+ months too much data has corrupted my brain and took away my sight. I'm trying to connect some dots here and see the big picture. How will MJ return and what will be presented to the world? Who or what will be expose? I can't imagine just a simple speech in a podium. There's got to be more. In order for all of this to make sense something bigger than a presidential election must transpire.

We know evil is out there...awareness? Maybe something specific or a target? Our beloved MJ can do great things and had done many in the past. Can he break the silence and speak a revelation? I think he can with the help of God. But I'm still blind reading about the FBI involvement with the hoax. Not that I don't believe in their involvement but my stomach is still hungry. I guess I have to wait patiently and take a number. What's next?
IMO something on a Biblical Revelation scale.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MJhasSpoken on March 17, 2011, 03:49:25 AM
I know TS said this hoax is because of many things but TS didn't say it was also because MJ was in danger? So is MJ not in danger or was never in danger?

This is not an important question but TS said that it was also a prank, who is it a prank to? I know MJ liked doing pranks but why is that one of the reasons? I am not trying to single out that reason or take it out of context but it just interests me.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: 2good2btrue on March 17, 2011, 04:52:14 AM
Quote from: "MJhasSpoken"
I know TS said this hoax is because of many things but TS didn't say it was also because MJ was in danger? So is MJ not in danger or was never in danger?

This is not an important question but TS said that it was also a prank, who is it a prank to? I know MJ liked doing pranks but why is that one of the reasons? I am not trying to single out that reason or take it out of context but it just interests me.

Sorry, but I don't buy that he would make people/fans suffer unnecessarily just for a joke.!  It has to be something more serious than that....

Remember, his children are playing a part in this too, and I don't think MJ would make them lie, just for fun.  This has caused pain to many people, on many levels.

I stand by the thought that he didn't have a choice...do or die.

The rest of what is going on, is just an aftermath that just keeps snowballing...going with the flow.  Too many people would have to be involved on a grander scale, so I think alot of what we have been reading in the tabloids, people writing books etc, is just part and parcel after a death of a celebrity..

I know MJ was crowned an "African King" and he has many good contacts in Saudi Arabia, and the Nation of Islam.  I suspect he has alot of options for protection reasons.

The only question I have left, is WHY ????  What would be so urgent/important enough to have to go through all of this??  

I THINK IT"S BIGGER THAN ANY OF US REALLY IMAGINED...

OBAMA....Corruption, Devastation of Mass proportions, one world Government, major natural disasters....are these all man-made???  What does MJ know that we don't???
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MJhasSpoken on March 17, 2011, 05:15:46 AM
Do you think MJ was approached first by the FBI or he approached them? Because how does this process really work?

Some have said they don't buy that MJ is working with the FBI which I think he is because it's the only way it could be pulled off...but just say MJ approached them doesn't that mean MJ has to adhere to their rules or maybe if they approached him then I guess he could be in control somewhat or allow for there to be clues.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Sarahli on March 17, 2011, 05:29:28 AM
Thank you TS! This is what i believe this hoax is for, a TREMENDOUS purpose. I think that people have doubts about the FBI thing because the reasons for the hoax are not 100% believed but if you really think that the end of this world is coming, that it is NOT a joke, then it changes the perspective from which you are seeing things. I think the "prank" part is "Michael faked his death" and the little funny clues we receive like toys placed on the desk of the judge for example, the entertainment thing.

If the purpose was to catch some thieves why include us in the process? If we are here debating about that in this very forum it is because it concerns us all. The NWO has an evil agenda, this is very real and it is coming to its peak. The devil knows that his end is near hence he's hastening his plans, big world events will occur more and more often, just look around.

I am sure that God has placed his pawns carefully in the world chessboard so why not some FBI agents...and the numerology proves it. It is certainly not the whole FBI agency that is involved because we know by whom it is controlled. There's still a lot we don't know about this hoax hence we still don't have a full coherent theory.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: 2good2btrue on March 17, 2011, 05:38:41 AM
Quote from: "MJhasSpoken"
Do you think MJ was approached first by the FBI or he approached them? Because how does this process really work?

Some have said they don't buy that MJ is working with the FBI which I think he is because it's the only way it could be pulled off...but just say MJ approached them doesn't that mean MJ has to adhere to their rules or maybe if they approached him then I guess he could be in control somewhat or allow for there to be clues.

Do you notice how almost all of the family have said publically that MJ was murdered for his catalogue??  

And since, many other have come forward and said the same thing....all this time, we have been waiting for something to be done about it.  You can't just throw accusations out there, and not have any consequences...  

Remember the leaked tapes of MJ asking for "Sunscreen" in the account, and that he was afraid, that he thinks he is the "Italian Mafia" or something like that.

Personally, if I was afraid for my life, I would be contacting the police immediately.  Were these threats for real, and MJ did something about it??  Who wanted him dead?
Follow the money trail..isn't that what Joe Jackson and Leonard Rowe said ??  

Michael Jackson & Julien’s Auctions Lawsuit Update, Claims of Threats:

“Lives Are At Stake and There Will Be Bloodshed”
March 24, 2009

As widely reported in the mainstream media, Michael Jackson has filed a lawsuit against Julien’s Auctions for the return of personal property from the Neverland Ranch that was consigned to the auction house with a sale planned for April 22-April 25, 2009 in Beverly Hills.  Fox News now reports on claims of threats made against Darren Julien and partner Martin Nolan by a Jackson associate.
The full report can be found at FoxNews.com (Claim: Jacko’s Rep Threatened Harm From Nation of Islam):
 Read more here....

http://www.originalprop.com/blog/2009/0 ... bloodshed/ (http://www.originalprop.com/blog/2009/03/24/michael-jackson-juliens-auctions-lawsuit-update-claims-of-threats-lives-are-at-stake-and-there-will-be-bloodshed/)

Could this be the reason he needed the FBI involved ????
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: trustno1 on March 17, 2011, 05:48:46 AM
This is a fantastic thread.  I'm not going with the professionals being bought out either, too litigious.  The idea that Michael was in danger is something that's been pushed by the family and the man himself for so long now.  Jermaine and LaToya in particular have constantly told us that the truth will come out, so we await the trial and its outcome even more impatiently.  I wouldn't be surprised if something spectacular was in the works.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 17, 2011, 05:53:33 AM
Quote from: "MJhasSpoken"
Do you think MJ was approached first by the FBI or he approached them? Because how does this process really work?

Some have said they don't buy that MJ is working with the FBI which I think he is because it's the only way it could be pulled off...but just say MJ approached them doesn't that mean MJ has to adhere to their rules or maybe if they approached him then I guess he could be in control somewhat or allow for there to be clues.


My guess is MJ approached them.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: GINAFELICIA on March 17, 2011, 05:56:49 AM
Quote from: "2good2btrue"
Do you notice how almost all of the family have said publically that MJ was murdered for his catalogue??  


This still doesn't make too much sense to me  :?  MJ is dead or "dead" now, so do they get that most-wanted catalogue now? NO!!

I think this is non-sense, but maybe I am wrong.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Ijustcantstoplovingu on March 17, 2011, 06:08:25 AM
"
Quote from: "MJonmind"
Quote
TS
Finally: is this hoax a prank, or a Thriller II reality movie, or an ARG, or a sting operation, or a Vendetta, or an NWO/EOW warning, or a wake-up call to the gullible public (don't believe everything in the media), etc--which is it? And the answer is: all of the above! It is something that people have never seen before, at least not the combination of these things and on this scale.
That's why we've been glued to our computer chairs all this time. :shock:  :)  And it's just so out there that nobody else will believe this is huge. They've been innoculated.

wishingstar, cool that there's 7 things TS gave as to what the hoax is. Something you said made me stop and think.
"Just like his arrest shed light on child abuse". Its Her hinted at something else going down back then and I agree, just as Bec thinks about the Pepsi fire incident, there's a larger purpose that is mind-blowing, and it's going about things different than any person would ever think to do it. It's like laying down your life and reputation, so that others can have life, laying it down voluntarily for love. If having the world hate him as a pedofile would help the world focus on the plight of millions of children who are horrifically treated, he would do it. We don't even understand a love like that. Doesn't he care about his reputation? He has entrusted it into God's care, for God to give vengeance, but he is heaping coals of fire on the heads of those who revile him. The world has had their time to spit on him, make fun of him, but the seed has been planted and will yeild a harvest unprecedented of good overcoming evil.

Quote from: "Im_convincedmjalive"
God does play a huge factor in this. For those who believe in the spiritual side should recognize what Michael the Archangel means to the following people below. I am not meaning for this to go this direction but it is something that I find relevant when it comes to Michael and his influence over the police, etc. The first link does have some dyslexic typos in the name Michael, lol. This has been talked about before on this forum many times. Michael has also had paintings done of himself playing the role of Archangel.

http://www.publicsafety.net/st_micheal.htm (http://www.publicsafety.net/st_micheal.htm)
Quote
The Public Safety Net
Saint Micheal The Archangel
The Patron Saint of the Police Officers, Paramedics & E.M.T.'s
http://www.policecoins.com/saintmichael.html (http://www.policecoins.com/saintmichael.html)

(http://www.policecoins.com/images/SaintMichael170.jpg)
Quote
Saint Michael, the Patron Saint of Law Enforcement

As protector and defender against evil, Saint Michael is the patron saint for law enforcement, and among the most common of the icons used on police coins. He is usually depicted as a winged knight-warrior, wearing battle armor. He wields a sword and holds scales of justice, while standing triumphantly over a fallen Lucifer.

Ok that is all for me on that subject. I would like to see more theories or opinions on the paramedics and the question TS has asked us recently.

Peace
For me it always comes back to this and much more. Im_convinced, you know what I feel about all this. It's the only answer that satisfies what I feel in my heart. Jesus told Pilate, "You would have no authority unless it had been given from above." And one of the redirects was Daniel saying, "God shut the mouths of the lions and they have not hurt me."
So I can see then that like TS says only a few good people need to be knowing from the FBI, a few good people from the LAPD, a few from UCLA, a few from TII production, a few from Sony/AEG, a few from the media, a few good friends, his family (I'm guessing all). It seems to me to be rather of a miraculous nature that all these people have kept their mouths shut as well, and because of the way the hoax has been created, even if individual guess things or spill too many beans, that nobody believes them anyway. Perhaps coupling with God's provision of these key people, God has also put a veil over the eyes of the world to not see things clearly. Throughout the Bible God is said to have a veil over all people until the right (end) time when He takes the veil away and people can see. (I've written a post about that and the veil pulled back in the painting of Michael with the book and key.)

Quote
by Yambo3003 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:13 am

I still can't foresee the conclusion of this story. Maybe after 20+ months too much data has corrupted my brain and took away my sight. I'm trying to connect some dots here and see the big picture. How will MJ return and what will be presented to the world? Who or what will be expose? I can't imagine just a simple speech in a podium. There's got to be more. In order for all of this to make sense something bigger than a presidential election must transpire.

We know evil is out there...awareness? Maybe something specific or a target? Our beloved MJ can do great things and had done many in the past. Can he break the silence and speak a revelation? I think he can with the help of God. But I'm still blind reading about the FBI involvement with the hoax. Not that I don't believe in their involvement but my stomach is still hungry. I guess I have to wait patiently and take a number. What's next?
IMO something on a Biblical Revelation scale.

It's like laying down your life and reputation, so that others can have life, laying it down voluntarily for love.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2Jy1J8n ... re=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2Jy1J8nvTw&feature=related)   This reminds me of a line from "What More can I give"

@1.23 MJ words from this song sums it up for me, wonderful lyrics so much LOVE FOR THE WORLD

sorry it wond embed for me  :oops:  :oops:


How many people will have to die before we will take a stand
How many children will have to cry, before we do all we can
If sending your love is all you can give
To help one live, mmm

How many times can we turn our heads
And pretend we cannot see
Healing the wounds of our broken earth
We are one global family
Just sending your prayers
Is something you feel
Helping one heal
What have I got that I can give
(What have I got that I can give, tell me)
What have I got that I can give, yeah, oh
To love and to teach you
To hold and to need you
What more can I give (what more can I give, yeah)

brother to brother, lay down our fears and reach out and make a pact
Show him the love that is in our hearts, let us bring salvation back
Just sending your love has the power to heal
So let's all give

What have I got that I can give
(It's not a lot to give, just a little bit)
What have I got that I can give
(Everyone should be a part of it)
To love and to teach you
To hold and to need you
What more can I give

Say the words, I'll lay 'e down for you
Just call my name, I am your friend
See then why do they keep teaching us
Such hate and cruelty
We should give over and over again

What have I got that I can give
(We should give over and over again)
What have I got that I can give
(Oh my God, oh my God)
See, to love and to teach you
To hold and to need you
What more can I give

What have I got that I can give (aah)
What have I got that I can give
(Give to you, give to you)
See, to love and to teach you
To hold and to need you
What more can I give (Oooh)

Repeat

What have I got that I can give
(Give to you, we're gonna give to you)
What have I got that I can give
To hold and conceal you
To love and to heal you
What more can I give

What have I got that I can give
(What have I got)
(Send them your prayers)
What have I got that I can give
(Show the world how much you really care)
(To love you)
To love and to teach you
(To hold you, to need you)To hold and to need you
What more can I give

What have I got that I can give...
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: suspicious mind on March 17, 2011, 08:40:08 AM
remember this?

http://www.tmz.com/category/jackson-fbi-files/ (http://www.tmz.com/category/jackson-fbi-files/)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MissG on March 17, 2011, 08:55:48 AM
Quote from: "2good2btrue"
“Lives Are At Stake and There Will Be Bloodshed”
March 24, 2009

As widely reported in the mainstream media, Michael Jackson has filed a lawsuit against Julien’s Auctions for the return of personal property from the Neverland Ranch that was consigned to the auction house with a sale planned for April 22-April 25, 2009 in Beverly Hills.  Fox News now reports on claims of threats made against Darren Julien and partner Martin Nolan by a Jackson associate.
The full report can be found at FoxNews.com (Claim: Jacko’s Rep Threatened Harm From Nation of Islam):
 Read more here....

http://www.originalprop.com/blog/2009/0 ... bloodshed/ (http://www.originalprop.com/blog/2009/03/24/michael-jackson-juliens-auctions-lawsuit-update-claims-of-threats-lives-are-at-stake-and-there-will-be-bloodshed/)

Could this be the reason he needed the FBI involved ????

I was reading about the NOI when I jumped to this thread.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_of_Islam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_of_Islam)

Questioning myslef about both FBI and NOI in regards to MJ.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: suspicious mind on March 17, 2011, 09:38:23 AM
seems like i caught the tail end of something recently with a connection of farrakhan, jerimiah wright and gadaphi (forgive the boo boos i have lost my spell check and can't firgure how to get it back  :lol:  :oops: ). one thing that always stood out to me was that fist at the 02 announcement. right around the time he seemed to be acting angry but i also notice in the very last seconds he has the fist and then sort of symbolicly throws it into the air and waves smiling.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Andrea on March 17, 2011, 10:07:20 AM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Without quoting anyone specific, I will give my answers here to things that have been asked or stated by several hoax members about the FBI.

First, I am not the one to initiate FBI or government involvement.  This is a theory that has been around pretty much from the beginning.  Souza has had the FBI on the home page for a long time: "If he has the FBI on his side, a lot can be done." {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/recap_english.php}.

Hey TS.  I had mentioned that you brought up the FBI - I meant in this thread but not in general to the hoax as the FBI has been discussed before.  It seemed to me that's where you wanted this discussion to go, which is why you brought it up here when no one else did.  You gave the clue several pages ago on this thread:
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Several people are generally on the right track, including this quoted comment here and the one before it {by MsTrinity333, viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=150#p312205 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&start=150#p312205)}. So I am now going to drop a huge clue. Actually, I thought someone would find this before now, especially with the timing clue that I gave when I posted the beginning of this thread (MsTrinity333 :o ).

Here is your big clue: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption)

So I think you wanted us to come to the conclusion that the LAFD and FBI are in cahoots with Michael, so to speak?


Quote from: "TS_comments"
Second, I never said that everyone in the entire FBI organization is involved.  I have always said MJ was planning this for years, and got a few key people in a few key positions to cooperate with him.  Notice that this is possible with the structure of the FBI: "The article went on to also blame the FBI's decentralized structure which prevented effective communication and cooperation between different FBI offices. The article also claimed that the FBI has still not evolved into an effective counterterrorism or counterintelligence agency, due in large part to deeply ingrained cultural resistance to change within the FBI." {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fbi}.

I would think that if the FBI is involved, it would be a small but effective group of people who know very much what they're doing and how to get it done under the radar.  For some reason, the FBI reminds me of the 1950s.  Maybe their old-school way of thinking hasn't progressed with the times as it should, why they haven't evolved into their potential..?

Quote from: "TS_comments"
Third, as I have said a few times already in this thread: the Elvis connection answers much of these objections--including the idea that there would be 100% secrecy, and no clues.  Elvis had government help, that is unquestionably established not only from Linda's website--but just about anyone else who talks about the Elvis case.  Also, originally Elvis had only six people in on it--and they were not all government agents.  Therefore, all the people in all the government agencies were not in on it.

When I first started reading up on the possibility that Elvis faked his death a while back, it actually made so much sense and suddenly those people who insisted Elvis is alive didn't seem so silly.  This link was one of the first I read when I started researching.  http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/fo ... opic=26943 (http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=26943)

Quote from: "TS_comments"
Fourth, if the FBI is involved, why would TS expose this publicly on the internet?  Again, look at the Elvis case.  Why does Linda's website publicly expose the fact that government agents helped Elvis in the past and recently?  Is Linda's website putting anyone in danger?  No.  Why not?  Because the general public has never heard of her website; and of the few who do see it, many still don't believe it.  Same for this MJ hoax website.  It is not getting millions of hits a day (not yet, anyway   :shock: ).  Few are watching, most of which are merely forum members here; and even some of those don't believe what I am saying about the FBI.

Ya I agree that exposing the FBI's involvement isn't going to really make an impact in a big way.  We're the crazy ones, right?   :lol:  Anyone who stumbles along this site will shake their heads or roll their eyes...unless they actually start to think about what's written.

Quote from: "TS_comments"
Fifth, there is more than one way to skin a cat.  So let's look at it from the other side of the coin.  If the FBI did not help out, then how could the Bel Air station not know something is fishy?  Would they sit by quietly, and say nothing, while MJ hired actors and rented an ambulance to look just like the LAFD #71 ambulance?  And why would the LAFD Captain say {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggewNtwvHJ4}: "On June 25, 2009, LAFD responded ... our paramedic ..."--if indeed the LAFD did NOT respond, and it was merely actors in a rented ambulance?

Do you think professionals could ALL be bought out for money?  And when the truth came out, wouldn't there be serious consequences for all of them?  Do you think they would not be charged with abuse of public office--ESPECIALLY if they got paid for it?  Can they get out of it all, by saying that it was all just for a movie--and this or that legal loophole squeaks them by?  Did you know that legal loopholes do not prevent people from getting charged with a crime?  Did you know that loopholes may not even prevent someone from being convicted of a crime?  Different people interpret the law differently; that is why there are lawyers and judges and juries.

However, if key people in the FBI are cooperating with LAFD and MJ: then when the truth comes out, all they have to do is show success in catching some public corruption through this process--and all is well that ends well.  After all, once again, that is their "top priority among criminal investigations" {http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption}.

The LAFD's involvement or uninvolvement is still a mystery to me.  I've looked at it so many ways, thanks to all the replies in this thread.  Maybe the paramedics were undercover FBI agents who had been with station 71 for a couple of months or something, their sole purpose to participate in the events of June 25th - do we know if these paramedics still work there?  I just don't understand how the paramedics could NOT be involved in some way because of the ambulance photo and then what they said at the prelim about not recognizing MJ.  It wouldn't be hard for the FBI to plant a couple of their agents in as paramedics, the actual station itself may not have even been aware of what was going on.

And I think it would actually be quite sloppy to just think everyone could be bribed to go along with everything for money.  What's to stop a person from demanding more money, or selling the story for even bigger amount?  Money corrupts, makes people greedy.  Obviously there is a lot of money being made, but I really don't think that's the main motivator behind the hoax.

I'm thinking the Michael isn't an agent, but if he is, he'd be some sort of special agent, and not the same kind of special agents the FBI has.  Michael holds a lot of power, throughout the whole world and that's quite important to remember.  He has a ton of influence, knows a LOT of people and is most likely aware of things that many would not be privy to.  Perhaps he is helping the FBI (the select few he feels he can trust) in exchange for their help.  No one would suspect that he is Agent M.  Or he could've also approached someone in the FBI for help and had information to back himself up.  

Quote from: "TS_comments"
Finally: is this hoax a prank, or a Thriller II reality movie, or an ARG, or a sting operation, or a Vendetta, or an NWO/EOW warning, or a wake-up call to the gullible public (don't believe everything in the media), etc--which is it?  And the answer is: all of the above!  It is something that people have never seen before, at least not the combination of these things and on this scale.

I agree very much!  This hoax never had just one reason and the reasons you've mentioned is what makes complete sense to me and what I tell people when they ask why Michael would've faked his death.  And if anyone on Earth is capable of something this massive, it's Michael.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: SoldierofLOVE on March 17, 2011, 10:29:37 AM
..."Discover the Man you never KNEW"...  ;)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MissG on March 17, 2011, 10:34:38 AM
Quote from: "suspicious mind"
seems like i caught the tail end of something recently with a connection of farrakhan, jerimiah wright and gadaphi (forgive the boo boos i have lost my spell check and can't firgure how to get it back  :lol:  :oops: ). one thing that always stood out to me was that fist at the 02 announcement. right around the time he seemed to be acting angry but i also notice in the very last seconds he has the fist and then sort of symbolicly throws it into the air and waves smiling.

We discussed those "guys" in other threads.

About the O2 conference, still no clarification if was MJ or a decoy, but throwing the fist has a significance and many symbolisms can apply.

In deed, feels like being in a washing machine, going in circles.

As Sócrates would say: I only know one thing that i know Nothing
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: PureLove on March 17, 2011, 10:44:00 AM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Finally: is this hoax a prank, or a Thriller II reality movie, or an ARG, or a sting operation, or a Vendetta, or an NWO/EOW warning, or a wake-up call to the gullible public (don't believe everything in the media), etc--which is it?  And the answer is: all of the above!  It is something that people have never seen before, at least not the combination of these things and on this scale.

By reading your posts, I find out that I totally understood so well about the whys and hows of the hoax. I've been telling about these all to people for almost 17 months from now. Some people are having a hard time to accept how MJ could pull all of these things at the same time. I know that people are annoyed when I say they are underestimating Michael, his power and his connections but the truth speaks for itself here. Michael is killing lots of birds with a single stone. Thank you for this informative and brilliant post TS. Hope it helps some of the hoaxers to see the bigger picture. Blessings.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: suspicious mind on March 17, 2011, 11:10:42 AM
Quote from: "Gema"
Quote from: "suspicious mind"
seems like i caught the tail end of something recently with a connection of farrakhan, jerimiah wright and gadaphi (forgive the boo boos i have lost my spell check and can't firgure how to get it back  :lol:  :oops: ). one thing that always stood out to me was that fist at the 02 announcement. right around the time he seemed to be acting angry but i also notice in the very last seconds he has the fist and then sort of symbolicly throws it into the air and waves smiling.

We discussed those "guys" in other threads.
About the O2 conference, still no clarification if was MJ or a decoy, but throwing the fist has a significance and many symbolisms can apply.

In deed, feels like being in a washing machine, going in circles.

As Sócrates would say: I only know one thing that i know Nothing

collectively? do you remember where?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Terror2k10 on March 17, 2011, 11:25:55 AM
Way back in the old Mj hoax forum we had a blog going saying the feds,where in on this. Thank you TS for your information it totally makes sense,because if they are not involved and MJ is alive there will be a lot of trouble to deal with for a hoax this big just look what happened to the balloon boy saga,his dad ended up in jail and owes money for fines,that was a small hoax.

FORT COLLINS, Colo. -- The Colorado man who admitted orchestrating the balloon boy hoax reported to jail Monday to begin a 90-day jail sentence.

Richard Heene pleaded guilty to attempting to influence a public servant after the Oct. 15 saga that captivated a national television audience.

But Heene now says he truly believed his 6-year-old son Falcon was inside the balloon and that he pleaded guilty only to appease authorities and save his wife from being deported to Japan.

Mayumi Heene confessed to deputies, authorities said, and she pleaded guilty to filing a false report. She faces 20 days in the Larimer County jail.

Richard Heene told The Associated Press last week that his wife misunderstood the meaning of the word "hoax" when she purportedly confessed.

"My wife's first language is Japanese, not English," Heene said. "My wife came home in tears wondering what she might have said. She opened this Japanese-to-English dictionary, and she walks up to me crying her head off, and she says to me, 'I thought hoax meant an exhibition."'

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In other interviews last week, Heene said investigators presented inconsistencies to the media, and he denied calling a TV station before dialing 911, as authorities said he did.

Authorities dismissed Heene's arguments.

District Attorney Larry Abrahamson said it was the Heenes and their attorneys, not prosecutors, who brought up the issue of deportation.

"We had been working with the attorneys for both he and his wife before charges were even filed," he said. "There was a lot of discussion about what was going to happen, about how and why. We were surprised that now he's coming out and saying that it wasn't a hoax."

Sheriff Jim Alderden said Mayumi Heene understands English better than her husband says she does.

"The interview was much more than, 'Mayumi, is this a hoax?' and she admitted to it. She went into the details of it," Alderden told the AP last week.

Mayumi Heene's statement to sheriff's investigators - in which she detailed the couple's efforts to pitch a television show, their financial difficulties, and their actions in the weeks leading up to the event - that make up the bulk of the case against the couple.

The Heenes must also pay restitution for the rescue effort that sent officers from two counties and other agencies scrambling. The Colorado National Guard launched two helicopters to track the balloon and possibly rescue the boy. Prosecutors estimate the Heenes owe $48,000, though Richard Heene's attorney could provide a different estimate by a Jan. 25 deadline.

Richard Heene also faces an $11,000 civil penalty from the Federal Aviation Administration. The balloon briefly shut down a runway at Denver International Airport.

He must serve 30 days before he can participate in the jail's work release program.

I would hate to see what they would do to MJ,if they are not involved,the money they used with the police,helicopters,ambulances,the lawyers,court time the price would be astronomical. They would lock him up and throw away the key for this big a hoax. But now if they lock up a bunch of crooked politicians,and businessmen,and Dr. Feelgoods all because of the hoax,it was all worth it. People will learn don't take everything you see on television is the truth as well. I have 1 question for TS and it has to do with something you wrote,you said after the Bam,What you have just witnessed could be the end of a particularly terrifying nightmare.
It isn’t. It’s the beginning. What lies after the hoax is revealed?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: sandythyme on March 17, 2011, 01:45:07 PM
Hi Guys  I just took a look at TS posting time/date: March 17, 2011 at 12:17 the day 3+1+7=11 the year 2011 (11), the time 1+2+1+7=11.  11/11/11 is Veteran's Day in the U.S. (also Rememberance Day in AU and CAN, Armistice Day in FR).   Veteran's Day is a legal holiday in the U.S. honoring all veterans of the armed forces.  Just wanted to throw that out there.  Take care, Love to All
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MsTrinity333 on March 17, 2011, 01:49:17 PM
Quote from: "onthewingsoflove"
Quote from: "TS_comments"

Finally: is this hoax a prank, or a Thriller II reality movie, or an ARG, or a sting operation, or a Vendetta, or an NWO/EOW warning, or a wake-up call to the gullible public (don't believe everything in the media), etc--which is it?  And the answer is: all of the above!  It is something that people have never seen before, at least not the combination of these things and on this scale.


Well now this takes me back full circle to my thoughts on why Police Chief Bratton suddenly announced his resignation in August 2009. I felt then that this hoax had something to do with that and with all that is listed above, I am more convinced now than ever!

Stay Blessed!

OnTheWingsOfLove

I think there's a lot to be said about the man we never knew. Here's some points of conversation I kept notes on with a YT friend over a yr ago when we were discussing Federal involvement among other things:

* "Here's a reminder: Bratton announced his resignation Aug 5. His staff, the Mayor, the City Council was all taken by surprise and in interviews some were NOT happy about it. Bratton had 2 yrs. left on his contract gave 2 mo. notice. The same day Altergity Security, an international security firm announced Bratton would be taking a position with them.  Altegrity Security Consulting "is involved in Criminal Justice program support".  Altegrity is owned by Providence Equity Partners "the world's leading private equity firm focused on media, entertainment, and communications”  …the position he took with Altegrity was created in July 2009 the month before he announced his resignation."

* "I think Phil Anschutz and Tom Barack have shady business pasts too, and apparently go back a long ways. I think MJ was coerced into this from the beginning. Did you know Barak (Colony Capitol) owns 1200 acres adjacent to Neverland, that he is heavily invested in gambling in Nevada and had plans for "Thriller themed" casinos on Neverland? Think MJ went along with that?"

* "I think MJ went to someone high up in law enforcement for help--coercion & racketeering (one of the criteria for Witness Protection), then the request for a favor in return-assisting the DEA. Putting the 2 together explains everything & nothing else does. Witness Protection ends once the threat has past, so we may see him again."

* "Tom Barrak is One of Tohme Tohme's many identities is of a US citizen of Lebanese decent raised in LA. Fresh out of USC law school Barrak was sent by his employer to Saudi Arabia for 4 1/2 years. Tohme has another identity as an orthopedic surgeon from Saudi Arabia. Both men are in their early 60s.  Tom Barrak/Colony Capital is heavily invested in gambling. Very long story short, those investments were not paying off. According to NBC he was charged with realestate fraud and making threats in the 90s. He goes on to tell AP he was working with others to renegotiate the terms of MJs main assets: the Sony/ATV catalog & the MiJac catalog that owns MJs own music."

On the Elvis parallels:
* "It looks highly likely Elvis is Jessie and LMP knows it, and so would MJ; esp if he's following in Elvis' footsteps (FBI & DEA?!) and is involved taking these racketeers & doctors down; hence the 'death' & possible witness protection.  WOW. Blows your mind doesn't it.  This is a long way from Wako Jacko. *wink wink"

* "They are going after doctors to the stars in Miami, Florida, Las Vegas, Nevada, and LA. That's a large number of doctors some who treated him 5 or 10 years ago. The aim is not to find the doc who is responsible but to go after a network of prescribing docs. The death was one of the few ways to go into these offices and demand records unless a patient goes to the Police about a doctor and even then it is hard to get in and get records."

And from another poster:
* "I truly believe that he is working with the government - the DEA comment is likely because all the doctors acted like they wanted to kill each other. You see that with physicians when they are under pressure and scrutiny and want to clear their name. It is against all policies to discuss your patient in public. You may make a statement such as “He died at 2pm from trauma to the chest" etc. These docs are talking about personal things that happen in their offices with this patient. That should be protected like fort knox. There is a reason for this discussion. I think it is fear. Why are the docs afraid? They did not give the meds that day? The doc who did is not talking."

Here's a video I just watched.  Not sure what to make of it.  Intriguing though...

[youtube:zf5xwz4i]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRg2DxWHk5c[/youtube:zf5xwz4i]
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: sandythyme on March 17, 2011, 02:10:14 PM
Hi me again....also:

by TS » Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:30 am

TIAI Revealed, Part 9: Today is 12-21-2009 (R49)

In this final part, we are going to be examining once again the “2012” film—especially as it relates to the concept of the end of the world on 12-21-2012, which is exactly three years from today. The “2012” movie story starts in the year 2009, and ends in 2012.

The “four years” that MJ mentioned in TII started in the spring of 2009 (when the “This Is It” concerts were in the planning stages); so we have already gone through the first year. You could also think of the four years as ending on 9-9-09, 10-10-10, 11-11-11, and 12-12-12 (ten day countdown to 12-21-12). Of course these are a little more than a year apart; but they are interesting numerology milestones in the four year process.

This Is It 111 Minutes long
April 21, 2011 111th day of the year ( 7+7+7=21)
Tabloid Junkie mentioned in TS Update 5C(Do you think for yourself), Metronome set at 111 beats per minute.
11/1-1/11 or (11/1) (1/11)
That's all.  This number has me crazy...can you tell.  Take care, I am going for a walk!
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Elsa on March 17, 2011, 02:14:36 PM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Fourth, speaking of update #4, that was my most detailed numerology post; and #4a was posted one year ago today (CA time), which was six months after 9-9-09.   :geek:   And fifth, speaking of numerology, it’s now time to start looking at how numerology unlocks and explains some of the hows of the hoax (in addition to explaining the when and why, which I have already discussed in great detail).

The next level means that we are now going to shift the focus from the ambulance picture (whether it was real or fake, etc) to whether or not some or all of the paramedics are in on the hoax.  Did the actual paramedics pose for a staged ambulance shot before 6-25-09?  Or did MJ use actors dressed like paramedics?  Was the ambulance photo staged with the actual #71 LAFD ambulance, or another one that looks about the same inside?  Would the real paramedics publicly deny the ambulance photo, if it was not them in the picture (and they were not in on the hoax)?

These and similar questions are now the focus of investigation.  Yes, we have already discussed these things to some extent; but it has not been the focus before now.  You may continue discussing the ambulance photo, if you want; and please keep that discussion in the proper thread {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053}.

Of course the ambulance photo is part of the evidence related to the paramedics, so the photo will still be discussed somewhat in this thread; but try to remember the focus of discussion in this thread.  When it’s time to graduate again, I will start another thread with the focus of who or what (if anything) went to the hospital on the stretcher in the ambulance.  We might need to discuss this a little now, but it’s not the focus yet; so let’s see what we can establish about the paramedics, before we focus on that aspect.


As for the FBI involvement, I agree with Andrea, Souza and others that the FBI connection has already been established by the 333 pages in 7 files being released.  TIAI Revealed started the same day and we know TS has explained the numerology like 333 and 1221.  

With the FBI involved did there need to be a real dead body?  Is the answer in Update #4?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: paula-c on March 17, 2011, 02:23:26 PM
Well, it's obvious that Michael to organize all this need of key people in key positions as TS said, from the doctor (Murray), paramedics, (for some reason the pictures are not seen your face), false documents, report the coroner and death certificate, obtain the signature of a doctor, arranging a funeral and burial later, all this can be achieved without the help of these key people.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: AnaMarcia on March 17, 2011, 02:49:15 PM
Someone here mentioned the role of UCLA.
It seems they did not want to get too involved in this hoax. The doctors have not appeared on TV  but their name was mentioned during pre-trial of Murray.
My biggest question is how Michael / FBI would have control over people's UCLA? Even though Michael was never there in 25/06, the people working there could figure out a possible scam.
The story of the fire alarm has been confirmed, including a Brazilian doctor who works in the pediatric UCLA. She said that on the day of Michael's death, the alarm went off and everyone ran outside the building. Nobody knew what was happening until they saw that there had been dozens of people called Michael's name and your music played too loud.
Have help from two or three paramedics may be easier.
I Working in a public hospital large university and I know when something serious happens, many sectors of the hospital are involved, from nurses, laboratory technicians, doctors, etc.. The doctors who treated Michael should give the news to family and fill out some paperwork for a legal nature. Mrs. Katherine said that who spoke with them was Conrad Murray, Dileo said it was a nurse. So, I can not find any plausible theory for what happened at UCLA that day.
Who are these doctors who appeared at the trial?
Does anyone have an idea about this whole issue?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: wishingstar on March 17, 2011, 02:53:40 PM
Wow MsTrinity333...I just watched that video you posted.....
I don't know what to say.  My first reaction was that of something that shook my thoughts on June25th itself.  It was a double that really did pass away.  The numerology points to a premeditated plan.  However, this is Michael Jackson. The phrase meet the man you never knew is resonating within me....I'd like to meet him, I want to meet him, but will never have that chance.  If we never knew him, would we recognize him standing in front of us?

Alas, poor Michael, we didn't know you at all.....let's change that, shall we??


Blessings Always
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: fordtocarr on March 17, 2011, 02:56:12 PM
The part that my mind won't wrap around is the numerology.  It's hard for me because of..
Well, I can't imagine Michael asking the FBI for help, being afraid, and then throwing in, "Oh yeah, as you help me/I help you, you have to do it according to these numbers I've worked out."
Also, sorry, but here I go again, I can't reconcile this with Michael's religious upbringing.  I won't say his religious beliefs, because as we know, he continued to write and speak with words that he was taught in his religious upbringing, but, who knows how he felt about that as years passed.  I just know he didn't leave because he didn't believe what he was taught, and felt great guilt for not following the teachings.  Again, he may have come to believe in numerology once time passed, but I hope that if he did use it, it was as a tool for clues, or to continue on the path of script Elvis had used.
I'm not writing this to begin a religious topic, it is simply MY beliefs, coming from where Michael had been myself.  
You all may be entirely correct and I see how you all come to where you are with numerology and TS leads into that area.  I will be THRILLED if you are and I will praise you for your great sluthing if it's right.  But, for me...well, I'm beyond speculating.  I'll just read, and wait, and hope one of these things are right.  I'll just wait for Michael's reasons, or not, I just want him back, and back safe, and HAPPY AND FREE :)
I do tend to think the FBI is using Michael, with Michael the initiator from his fear, maybe of dying because of the drugs he was allowed from any doctor, and called for help.  And in the event, of capturing all these crooks, it will become a documentary/drama.  He will be cleared in name, finances and the crimes by these docs will be exposed, along with the media following the docs in dragging the celebs down.
Again.
JMO
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Grace on March 17, 2011, 03:00:51 PM
Quote from: "AnaMarcia"
Someone here mentioned the role of UCLA.
UCLA campus delivers an infrastructural tunnel web .
UCLA is said to have been a hospital of research of "the mind".
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: paula-c on March 17, 2011, 03:02:13 PM
There are times when I think that Michael is not shy and fragile man we all know.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MissG on March 17, 2011, 03:03:55 PM
Quote from: "suspicious mind"
Quote from: "Gema"
Quote from: "suspicious mind"
seems like i caught the tail end of something recently with a connection of farrakhan, jerimiah wright and gadaphi (forgive the boo boos i have lost my spell check and can't firgure how to get it back  :lol:  :oops: ). one thing that always stood out to me was that fist at the 02 announcement. right around the time he seemed to be acting angry but i also notice in the very last seconds he has the fist and then sort of symbolicly throws it into the air and waves smiling.

We discussed those "guys" in other threads.
About the O2 conference, still no clarification if was MJ or a decoy, but throwing the fist has a significance and many symbolisms can apply.

In deed, feels like being in a washing machine, going in circles.

As Sócrates would say: I only know one thing that i know Nothing

collectively? do you remember where?

Visions and Bahrain
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: AnaMarcia on March 17, 2011, 03:25:58 PM
Quote from: "Grace"
Quote from: "AnaMarcia"
Someone here mentioned the role of UCLA.
UCLA campus delivers an infrastructural tunnel web .
UCLA is said to have been a hospital of research of "the mind".

Thanks for the reply, Grace.
But what would have to see the study of minds with the matter Michael?
I have heard that there are tunnels at UCLA, but it gives no answer to my questions. You mean the ambulance could get out of these tunnels?
From the pictures we see, that someone arrived in the ambulance, but  how was the procedure inside hospital? I think I'll ever get answer on this.
I could imagine that the medical sector would also be involved in the hoax, but many people would be involved. It makes no sense.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MissG on March 17, 2011, 03:29:02 PM
Quote from: "AnaMarcia"
Quote from: "Grace"
Quote from: "AnaMarcia"
Someone here mentioned the role of UCLA.
UCLA campus delivers an infrastructural tunnel web .
UCLA is said to have been a hospital of research of "the mind".

Thanks for the reply, Grace.
But what would have to see the study of minds with the matter Michael?

How do beliefs and emotions affect the course of chronic disease? What are the biological mechanisms underlying the impact of stress on our health? How do the placebo effect and acupuncture work? What is the biology substrate underlying our "gut feelings"? The new UCLA Mind-Body Collaborative Research Center, which opens today, will explore these issues.
http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/article/3140 (http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/article/3140)

New Staglin neuroscience center to probe how human mind works
Faculty campuswide will be participating in the new Staglin IMHRO (International Mental Health Research Organization ) Center for Cognitive Neuroscience to probe how the human mind works, using state-of-the-science imaging technology.
 
“The Staglin IMHRO Center for Cognitive Neuroscience is an exciting addition to UCLA,” said Scott Waugh, executive vice chancellor and provost. “It will advance scientific understanding, promote innovative teaching and host public programs that can inform the community about fascinating new developments in cognitive neuroscience. UCLA is on the cutting edge of the revolution in mental health, and this center will greatly enhance UCLA’s strengths in this vital area.”
 
The center, which is scheduled to open officially in July, will be housed on the C floor of the Semel Institute for Neuroscience and Human Behavior.

http://www.today.ucla.edu/portal/ut/new ... 58031.aspx (http://www.today.ucla.edu/portal/ut/new-neuroscience-center-brings-158031.aspx)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: AnaMarcia on March 17, 2011, 03:34:54 PM
Quote from: "Gema"
Quote from: "AnaMarcia"
Quote from: "Grace"
Quote from: "AnaMarcia"
Someone here mentioned the role of UCLA.
UCLA campus delivers an infrastructural tunnel web .
UCLA is said to have been a hospital of research of "the mind".

Thanks for the reply, Grace.
But what would have to see the study of minds with the matter Michael?

How do beliefs and emotions affect the course of chronic disease? What are the biological mechanisms underlying the impact of stress on our health? How do the placebo effect and acupuncture work? What is the biology substrate underlying our "gut feelings"? The new UCLA Mind-Body Collaborative Research Center, which opens today, will explore these issues.
http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/article/3140 (http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/article/3140)

New Staglin neuroscience center to probe how human mind works
Faculty campuswide will be participating in the new Staglin IMHRO (International Mental Health Research Organization ) Center for Cognitive Neuroscience to probe how the human mind works, using state-of-the-science imaging technology.
 
“The Staglin IMHRO Center for Cognitive Neuroscience is an exciting addition to UCLA,” said Scott Waugh, executive vice chancellor and provost. “It will advance scientific understanding, promote innovative teaching and host public programs that can inform the community about fascinating new developments in cognitive neuroscience. UCLA is on the cutting edge of the revolution in mental health, and this center will greatly enhance UCLA’s strengths in this vital area.”
 
The center, which is scheduled to open officially in July, will be housed on the C floor of the Semel Institute for Neuroscience and Human Behavior.

http://www.today.ucla.edu/portal/ut/new ... 58031.aspx (http://www.today.ucla.edu/portal/ut/new-neuroscience-center-brings-158031.aspx)

Sorry, but I'm feeling really dumb  :oops: .
Still do not understand what the mind studies has to do with Michael / FBI / Hoax.
Explanation, please!  :?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MissG on March 17, 2011, 03:50:49 PM
Stress can kill. MJ was under stress. May be he was taken care of before it was too late.

To "kill" MJ the icon would mean the rebirth of MJ the human being. Michael´s life and fame lead him probably in to a pseudo life. Rewiring his mind in to different cages would have been a sign of survival and would explain many sides of Michael and what he needed to deal with during 45 years on the spot light.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: AnaMarcia on March 17, 2011, 04:15:33 PM
Quote from: "Gema"
Stress can kill. MJ was under stress. May be he was taken care of before it was too late.

To "kill" MJ the icon would mean the rebirth of MJ the human being. Michael´s life and fame lead him probably in to a pseudo life. Rewiring his mind in to different cages would have been a sign of survival and would explain many sides of Michael and what he needed to deal with during 45 years on the spot light.

So it may be that Michael / FBI seeks help from UCLA to make a psychological treatment anti-stress on Michael?
As required by the FBI and Michael being severely at risk of death and a high level of stress, UCLA would rather help with this.
This would be so complex! Is this a valid assumption?  :?
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MsTrinity333 on March 17, 2011, 04:16:49 PM
Quote from: "wishingstar"
Wow MsTrinity333...I just watched that video you posted.....
I don't know what to say.  My first reaction was that of something that shook my thoughts on June25th itself.  It was a double that really did pass away.  The numerology points to a premeditated plan.  However, this is Michael Jackson. The phrase meet the man you never knew is resonating within me....I'd like to meet him, I want to meet him, but will never have that chance.  If we never knew him, would we recognize him standing in front of us?

Alas, poor Michael, we didn't know you at all.....let's change that, shall we??


Blessings Always

Here's all I could find from my past notes of an investigation between two posters concerning a body (not a double):

"This brings us to who was in the house. Who did they put in the ambulance and take to UCLA.  If they were working with a medical forensic doctor DR. A. the colleague of Dr. Murray; then he could get a John Doe who is either critical or recently died and take to the house to the doctor's room. He was not in MJ's bed, and they made the room as hot as possible to try to keep the body warm. There are too many unexplained things that make it less likely that MJ had disappeared and was not taken to the hospital.

The fact that no one has identified or spoken to the doctor who received MJ's body and coded him at UCLA hospital or that he/she did not announce the death at the press conference is unheard of.  It is not difficult for a physician to purchase an unidentified person - John Doe/Jane Doe. They are used for training physicians on procedures etc. I think in this case - a medical legal forensic doctor- Dr. M's colleague may have access to these John Doe bodies. They had the right fit. That is why no one from the house- Kai Chase or any of the housekeepers were called for help; which is unusual in a cardiac arrest where you need as many hands as possible to help with compression and passing things.

My assumption is that MJ did his disappearance between a little after midnight the night before (6/24) to the morning of 6/25. Most likely before Kai Chase got to the house. I think that explains why his computer/hard drive and stashes of money were missing. He took the computer with his songs and the money with him. The person who they reported was MJ was not him. So far we had at least 2 episodes where the people who saw his body when he was a dead man said it did not look like him and described someone who looked elderly, Asian and very, very thin. The most important characteristic of MJ is his Vitiligo and that was not described by any of them.

MJ would not take the risk of going to the hospital. There would be too much complication with going there. However for diversion you send a body there because that will take the attention away from what you are doing; similar to the scene in Smooth Criminal where he describes the fact that you create the diversion with the person coming on stage with the fire and noise while he and the dancers position themselves into the tilt. No one is watching them…"
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: AnaMarcia on March 17, 2011, 04:17:19 PM
Quote from: "AnaMarcia"
Quote from: "Gema"
Stress can kill. MJ was under stress. May be he was taken care of before it was too late.

To "kill" MJ the icon would mean the rebirth of MJ the human being. Michael´s life and fame lead him probably in to a pseudo life. Rewiring his mind in to different cages would have been a sign of survival and would explain many sides of Michael and what he needed to deal with during 45 years on the spot light.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MissG on March 17, 2011, 04:38:11 PM
Quote from: "AnaMarcia"
Quote from: "Gema"
Stress can kill. MJ was under stress. May be he was taken care of before it was too late.

To "kill" MJ the icon would mean the rebirth of MJ the human being. Michael´s life and fame lead him probably in to a pseudo life. Rewiring his mind in to different cages would have been a sign of survival and would explain many sides of Michael and what he needed to deal with during 45 years on the spot light.

So it may be that Michael / FBI seeks help from UCLA to make a psychological treatment anti-stress on Michael?
As required by the FBI and Michael being severely at risk of death and a high level of stress, UCLA would rather help with this.
This would be so complex! Is this a valid assumption?  :?

I am not sure. The family talked about an intervention many times and weeks before Michael died they also said that an intervenion was on the way.

We have heard about Murrays intervention. But what kind?

For MJ to recuperate it would mean to be reborn. Becoming a new being.
(I explained this theory very extensively in another thread some months ago, the visions thread, a thread which included psychiatric, medical and psychological approaches to MJ´s profile)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: 2good2btrue on March 17, 2011, 05:26:15 PM
Dr Tohme Tohme and Grace the nanny are from the Nation of Islam...

Loius Farrakhan was at the memorial.  He then goes on the defend Michael and says he was crucified !!  

Michael had let go of the NOI bodyguards because he felt threatened.

NOI are a million strong and growing by the day.  They pose a real threat to the American government .

Is MJ working undercover to expose them for what they really are ????????


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXal1CGa ... re=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXal1CGaISQ&feature=related)
[youtube:odzzw5ut]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXal1CGaISQ&feature=related[/youtube:odzzw5ut]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9awyYESU ... ure=fvwrel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9awyYESUm78&feature=fvwrel)
[youtube:odzzw5ut]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9awyYESUm78&feature=fvwrel[/youtube:odzzw5ut]
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: LunaCielo on March 17, 2011, 05:33:14 PM
Quote from: "TS_comments"
Without quoting anyone specific, I will give my answers here to things that have been asked or stated by several hoax members about the FBI.

First, I am not the one to initiate FBI or government involvement.  This is a theory that has been around pretty much from the beginning.  Souza has had the FBI on the home page for a long time: "If he has the FBI on his side, a lot can be done." {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/recap_english.php}.

Second, I never said that everyone in the entire FBI organization is involved.  I have always said MJ was planning this for years, and got a few key people in a few key positions to cooperate with him.  Notice that this is possible with the structure of the FBI: "The article went on to also blame the FBI's decentralized structure which prevented effective communication and cooperation between different FBI offices. The article also claimed that the FBI has still not evolved into an effective counterterrorism or counterintelligence agency, due in large part to deeply ingrained cultural resistance to change within the FBI." {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fbi}.

Third, as I have said a few times already in this thread: the Elvis connection answers much of these objections--including the idea that there would be 100% secrecy, and no clues.  Elvis had government help, that is unquestionably established not only from Linda's website--but just about anyone else who talks about the Elvis case.  Also, originally Elvis had only six people in on it--and they were not all government agents.  Therefore, all the people in all the government agencies were not in on it.

Fourth, if the FBI is involved, why would TS expose this publicly on the internet?  Again, look at the Elvis case.  Why does Linda's website publicly expose the fact that government agents helped Elvis in the past and recently?  Is Linda's website putting anyone in danger?  No.  Why not?  Because the general public has never heard of her website; and of the few who do see it, many still don't believe it.  Same for this MJ hoax website.  It is not getting millions of hits a day (not yet, anyway   :shock: ).  Few are watching, most of which are merely forum members here; and even some of those don't believe what I am saying about the FBI.

Fifth, there is more than one way to skin a cat.  So let's look at it from the other side of the coin.  If the FBI did not help out, then how could the Bel Air station not know something is fishy?  Would they sit by quietly, and say nothing, while MJ hired actors and rented an ambulance to look just like the LAFD #71 ambulance?  And why would the LAFD Captain say {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggewNtwvHJ4}: "On June 25, 2009, LAFD responded ... our paramedic ..."--if indeed the LAFD did NOT respond, and it was merely actors in a rented ambulance?

Do you think professionals could ALL be bought out for money?  And when the truth came out, wouldn't there be serious consequences for all of them?  Do you think they would not be charged with abuse of public office--ESPECIALLY if they got paid for it?  Can they get out of it all, by saying that it was all just for a movie--and this or that legal loophole squeaks them by?  Did you know that legal loopholes do not prevent people from getting charged with a crime?  Did you know that loopholes may not even prevent someone from being convicted of a crime?  Different people interpret the law differently; that is why there are lawyers and judges and juries.

However, if key people in the FBI are cooperating with LAFD and MJ: then when the truth comes out, all they have to do is show success in catching some public corruption through this process--and all is well that ends well.  After all, once again, that is their "top priority among criminal investigations" {http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption}.

Finally: is this hoax a prank, or a Thriller II reality movie, or an ARG, or a sting operation, or a Vendetta, or an NWO/EOW warning, or a wake-up call to the gullible public (don't believe everything in the media), etc--which is it?  And the answer is: all of the above!  It is something that people have never seen before, at least not the combination of these things and on this scale.
[/color]

This is my exact thoughts, I believe that Michael Jackson has created an
extraordinary film  of which is undisputed    director and author.
He risked a lot and no one before him has managed to do
same.
I believe that he engage the services of  equipe FBI or at least
investigative facilities that protect him.
He's a great great man  and immense genius!
 ;)  Thank you,  TS, for precious details
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: 2good2btrue on March 17, 2011, 05:42:27 PM
Why have they chosen the drill to go around the world with ?????  It says it all for me.
This is a message to all of his fans...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPJI9yvE ... ure=relmfu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPJI9yvEcbk&feature=relmfu)
[youtube:3e57suux]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPJI9yvEcbk&feature=relmfu[/youtube:3e57suux]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKtdTJP_ ... ure=relmfu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKtdTJP_GUI&feature=relmfu)
[youtube:3e57suux]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKtdTJP_GUI&feature=relmfu[/youtube:3e57suux]
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: SEHF on March 17, 2011, 06:14:10 PM
Quote from: paula-c
There are times when I think that Michael is not shy and fragile man we all know.

Nobody fragile would have lasted through two bullshit molestation trials and still manage to raise a beautiful family... amongst many other accomplishments.
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: fordtocarr on March 17, 2011, 06:42:05 PM
How many of us are trying to learn "the drill" and how many WISH we could learn it????
I'm in the wish group.  I can't catch onto any of his moves even though I've been watching them almost all my life :)
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: Elsa on March 17, 2011, 07:33:58 PM
Quote from: "Gema"
Quote from: "AnaMarcia"
Quote from: "Gema"
Stress can kill. MJ was under stress. May be he was taken care of before it was too late.

To "kill" MJ the icon would mean the rebirth of MJ the human being. Michael´s life and fame lead him probably in to a pseudo life. Rewiring his mind in to different cages would have been a sign of survival and would explain many sides of Michael and what he needed to deal with during 45 years on the spot light.

So it may be that Michael / FBI seeks help from UCLA to make a psychological treatment anti-stress on Michael?
As required by the FBI and Michael being severely at risk of death and a high level of stress, UCLA would rather help with this.
This would be so complex! Is this a valid assumption?  :?

I am not sure. The family talked about an intervention many times and weeks before Michael died they also said that an intervenion was on the way.

We have heard about Murrays intervention. But what kind?

For MJ to recuperate it would mean to be reborn. Becoming a new being.
(I explained this theory very extensively in another thread some months ago, the visions thread, a thread which included psychiatric, medical and psychological approaches to MJ´s profile)

I know in the process of elimination, we all throw in competing theories and possibilities which sometimes seem ridiculous.  We do it to see what's plausible in the process of elimination but - trying to figure out MJ's medical and psychological profile when this hoax has being going on for such a long time - can't you see - its a time waster!
Title: Re: TIAI March 9
Post by: MissG on March 17, 2011, 07:48:38 PM
Quote from: "Elsa"
Quote from: "Gema"
Quote from: "AnaMarcia"
Quote from: "Gema"
Stress can kill. MJ was under stress. May be he was taken care of before it was too late.

To "kill" MJ the icon would mean the rebirth of MJ the human being. Michael´s life and fame lead him probably in to a pseudo life. Rewiring his mind in to different cages would have been a sign of survival and would explain many sides of Michael and what he needed to deal with during 45 years on the spot light.

So it may be that Michael / FBI seeks help from UCLA to make a psychological treatment anti-stress on Michael?
As required by the FBI and Michael being severely at risk of death and a high level of stress, UCLA would rather help with this.
This would be so complex! Is this a valid assumption?  :?

I am not sure. The family talked about an intervention many times and weeks before Michael died they also said that an intervenion was on the way.

We have heard about Murrays intervention. But what kind?

For MJ to recuperate it would mean to be reborn. Becoming a new being.
(I explained this theory very extensively in another thread some months ago, the visions thread, a thread which included psychiatric, medical and psychological approaches to MJ´s profile)

I know in the process of elimination, we all throw in competing theories and possibilities which sometimes seem ridiculous.  We do it to see what's plausible in the process of elimination but - trying to figure out MJ's medical and psychological profile when this hoax has being going on for such a long time - can't you see - its a time waster!

Lol, totally.