Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators
Latest News => The Hoax Mentioned In The Media => Topic started by: ~Souza~ on February 14, 2011, 05:46:04 PM
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I have been contacted by the Editor in Chief of Wonderwall Magazine (wonderwallmagazine.com) and he asked me if I am willing to cooperate on a new section of the magazine they are shortly going to launch in the US and probably later also in the UK (they are working on that). Here is the e-mail he sent me (I have his permission to publish it).
We are Wonderwall Magazine and are scheduled to do a small pre-release of our first issue at the Grammys this year. Hopefully we will make the deadline. Our magazine has a diverse line-up of over 13 sections to read from. Music, fashion, history, technology, legends, mind, body, spirit, comics, global events, film, and more. However, the whole reason I started the magazine is to wake people up and help raise the awareness of the population. That is why I manage my favorite section, which is called Theories and Conspiracies. In the first issue we write about The Police State and the global elite. In the 2nd issue we will expose GMO's and Mass Media Mind Control. Attached are some unedited samples of Issue 1.p If there are mistakes I appologize, they will be fixed. I read all the material on your site and was blown away and completely shocked. I would love to provide you and your team of writers with a platform in Wonderwall Magazine where we will publish in sections, the truth behind the "The Jackson Consiracy". We go to print every other month and can continue the story each month and even have a permanent column specifically for Michael called "The Jackson Files" that follows the story and any new information involved with his life and current whereabouts will be updated each issue. Our goal is to be a monthly publication in 5-6 months and are optimistic and confident we will achieve it. Together we will expose the media puppeteers pulling the strings and manipulating the story and demand real answeres immedialtly. If it is ok with you, we can layout and bring life to the amazing writing already published on your site, give full credit to the writer and post it on our site with your link attached. (wonderwallmagazine.com) You also can write new material as the story progresses. Let us know if you are interested. We aren't Rolling Stone yet, but our team is growing fast. I just want to help Michael out any way I can. I really can relate to him. We are open to ideas and suggestions and look forward to hearing from you.
And here are the pictures he sent me with it:
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/wonderwall_01.jpg)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/wonderwall_02.jpg)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/wonderwall_05.jpg)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/wonderwall_06.jpg)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/wonderwall_03.jpg)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/wonderwall_04.jpg)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/wonderwall_07.jpg)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/wonderwall_08.jpg)
You all know I never ask permission to talk to the media about the hoax, and this time I won't either, because unless someone can show me that these people can't be trusted, I think this will be a great platform to get the story out there. The good thing about this magazine is that it is not just for conspiracy nuts, they also have fashion, film and other sections, so that means there is something for anyone, which makes the chance bigger that the magazine will sell. They also seem a serious media outlet to me and the man I have contact with is an MJ fan and on our side. He believes he is alive and wants the word out. His magazine looks like something I would definitely buy.
Also a good thing is that he offers a permanent spot in the magazine, which makes it possible to explain all the aspects of the hoax. I can deliver the pieces to him and he will publish it as sent, it will not be altered (except for typos of course). We will be able to tell the story and get it out there the way WE think it should be presented to the public and for the first issue he offers 2 full pages. I am posting this because there might be others on here who would like to write pieces as well and of course I would like to hear your thoughts, either positive or negative, although I can already assure you that comments like "Michael never trusted the media so don't do it" or again references to the trashy Sun article will not change my mind because I absolutely think this story needs a wider audience and this seems like a good start.
P.S.: he is willing to pay for it. Not much at start since they just started and most of their money will go to the printing costs, but if the magazine sells well, we will get paid more. I do not want to receive any money for it, but I think it would be a great idea to choose one of the foundations Michael supports to donate this money to.
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I am 100% sure that this is a wonderful idea!!! I hope that my family will buy the magazine when it is published.
The only advice I have for you is to pray about what you what the public to hear. I know God will help you. Let the Holy Spirit guide you so you will now what to say and how to put it in words so you will he able to touch peoples souls.
May God bless you.
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You have my support with this Souza. And also my prayers.
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I was on the chatroom when this person was trying to get us to help him. :)
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A fabulous and very exciting prospect! I 100% support this and hope to contribute in any way I can. I can't wait to see what it will all look like in the magazine. This is a very good opportunity and I'd love to see what it can do for us because I think it can do great wonders! :D
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:P NO WAY Souza!!! WOW (Is writing your profession??) That is amazing. I think...man, I'm at a loss for words....
Right away, I thought, Michael is publishing a magazine!!! Huge decisions girl. How do we know that Michael WANTS this all out to the public or if he has his own time agenda and this would mess with it? Then again how do we know HE hasn't put this in motion? Or if we all are WRONG about this hoax, heaven knows we don't want to hurt the family .. or become more crazy to the world.
I think you have a lot to weigh...a lot to give over to God. We're behind you entirely. Either way, fantastic that someone has REALLY taken note of what you (and us investigators, pat back:) have done.
OH Geez, this is amazing.....I'm praying for your decision...Me?...I'd drop hints to the family on twitter and feel them out....and then if no opposition...do it!
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Look at the cover, Believe in everything...
I'm researching... :)
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If this guy is legit with this magazine, then it looks really neat and something I would read.
What's ironic is that people may start to believe in the hoax "just because they read it in a magazine".
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How do we know that Michael WANTS this all out to the public or if he has his own time agenda and this would mess with it? Then again how do we know HE hasn't put this in motion? Or if we all are WRONG about this hoax, heaven knows we don't want to hurt the family .. or become more crazy to the world.
If getting the hoax out would not be what he wants, this site wouldn't exist. I already spoke to a UK radiostation, which is posted on this site, we had the Sun-article, the Classic Bands interview so it's obvious that we are willing to get this out. If none of this was meant to be public, the estate would have made sure this site would be taken down or I would have received an email (a legit one) from one of the family members asking me to stop because I have always said that as soon as the family would approach me to tell me that this site would danage MJ or his plans in any way, I would take it offline immediately. Never in 20 months has anyone even tried this, except for trolls under proxies who in my opinion have an agenda against Michael's plans. So I don't think that will be an issue. Also don't forget that this site had 1 million unique visitors in 2010, so this is already a medium to get it out, everything posted on here is public.
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How do we know that Michael WANTS this all out to the public or if he has his own time agenda and this would mess with it? Then again how do we know HE hasn't put this in motion? Or if we all are WRONG about this hoax, heaven knows we don't want to hurt the family .. or become more crazy to the world.
If getting the hoax out would not be what he wants, this site wouldn't exist. I already spoke to a UK radiostation, which is posted on this site, we had the Sun-article, the Classic Bands interview so it's obvious that we are willing to get this out. If none of this was meant to be public, the estate would have made sure this site would be taken down or I would have received an email (a legit one) from one of the family members asking me to stop because I have always said that as soon as the family would approach me to tell me that this site would danage MJ or his plans in any way, I would take it offline immediately. Never in 20 months has anyone even tried this, except for trolls under proxies who in my opinion have an agenda against Michael's plans. So I don't think that will be an issue. Also don't forget that this site had 1 million unique visitors in 2010, so this is already a medium to get it out, everything posted on here is public.
Sorry, but so the fact that Michael might have noone on his side to complain about it, would make the existence of the forum legit ? How do you know ?
You say we had an article in the Sun, and so it's legit that the hoax has to be out, but i hope you remember what happened with the SUN.... :roll:
You do what you want, but i'm done with the media. I think this forum + website is attracting already a lot of people and that you made big work to turn it less conspiracy obsessed, and more MJ focussed, and now we're gonna rune some Jackson Files in a conspiracy obsessed magazine ?
Have i missed some part ? Are we gonna publish things that have NO legit sources apart what TS is supposed to have said to us ?
I'm not in this, but as I said, you are free to go for your ideas and i hope that this will not bring MJ down to weird stories level again...
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I am 100% sure that this is a wonderful idea!!! I hope that my family will buy the magazine when it is published.
The only advice I have for you is to pray about what you what the public to hear. I know God will help you. Let the Holy Spirit guide you so you will now what to say and how to put it in words so you will he able to touch peoples souls.
May God bless you.
very good advice indeed. let's all do that shall we. any takers?
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How do we know that Michael WANTS this all out to the public or if he has his own time agenda and this would mess with it? Then again how do we know HE hasn't put this in motion? Or if we all are WRONG about this hoax, heaven knows we don't want to hurt the family .. or become more crazy to the world.
If getting the hoax out would not be what he wants, this site wouldn't exist. I already spoke to a UK radiostation, which is posted on this site, we had the Sun-article, the Classic Bands interview so it's obvious that we are willing to get this out. If none of this was meant to be public, the estate would have made sure this site would be taken down or I would have received an email (a legit one) from one of the family members asking me to stop because I have always said that as soon as the family would approach me to tell me that this site would danage MJ or his plans in any way, I would take it offline immediately. Never in 20 months has anyone even tried this, except for trolls under proxies who in my opinion have an agenda against Michael's plans. So I don't think that will be an issue. Also don't forget that this site had 1 million unique visitors in 2010, so this is already a medium to get it out, everything posted on here is public.
Sorry, but so the fact that Michael might have noone on his side to complain about it, would make the existence of the forum legit ? How do you know ?
You say we had an article in the Sun, and so it's legit that the hoax has to be out, but i hope you remember what happened with the SUN.... :roll:
You do what you want, but i'm done with the media. I think this forum + website is attracting already a lot of people and that you made big work to turn it less conspiracy obsessed, and more MJ focussed, and now we're gonna rune some Jackson Files in a conspiracy obsessed magazine ?
Have i missed some part ? Are we gonna publish things that have NO legit sources apart what TS is supposed to have said to us ?
I'm not in this, but as I said, you are free to go for your ideas and i hope that this will not bring MJ down to weird stories level again...[/quote]
To me I think it us a wonderful idea. Besides how can anyone say that this could be a bad idea. No one will know unless someone makes the first move. You should not judge a magize unless you have a very very strong feeling that this is evil. If anyone has please let us know. As for me I am all for the magazine.
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whew...I'd really like this to be Michael behind it...I can really see a lot of opinions with this. Ultimately, it is not our decision, thank goodness Souza let us even know and voice our opinions. I totally feel better about this from what you explained Souza...but also see what whatyourheartsays, is telling us.
There is risk to doing it, but by not doing it? I don't know....
It's still exciting, and I trust that you have done all the research and would not hurt Michael, of course :)
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I am 100% sure that this is a wonderful idea!!! I hope that my family will buy the magazine when it is published.
The only advice I have for you is to pray about what you what the public to hear. I know God will help you. Let the Holy Spirit guide you so you will now what to say and how to put it in words so you will he able to touch peoples souls.
May God bless you.
very good advice indeed. let's all do that shall we. any takers?
Thank You
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Well my thought is that we have no proof for all theories we have. And may i remind you that we do not all share the same belief about this hoax possibility. Those articles to me would just mean that the whole community of believers is ok with conspiracy theory, and i'm NOT.
What are we gonna talk about ? Cryptic post we received from we don't know who, who prooved that if i had my bra size and my IQ, i will find MJ's birthday, and this makes a proof that Elvis is alive...
Sorry but building articles and setting them public means we hold really something, and my feeling is that we still hold NOTHING... So to me this will just be lighting fires here and there, about illuminati, about music industry etc etc...and finally it will just remain suppositions... and just bring some more trouble with MJ fans and where will MJ's image stand among all this ?
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Well my thought is that we have no proof for all theories we have. And may i remind you that we do not all share the same belief about this hoax possibility. Those articles to me would just mean that the whole community of believers is ok with conspiracy theory, and i'm NOT.
What are we gonna talk about ? Cryptic post we received from we don't know who, who prooved that if i had my bra size and my IQ, i will find MJ's birthday, and this makes a proof that Elvis is alive...
Sorry but building articles and setting them public means we hold really something, and my feeling is that we still hold NOTHING... So to me this will just be lighting fires here and there, about illuminati, about music industry etc etc...and finally it will just remain suppositions... and just bring some more trouble with MJ fans and where will MJ's image stand among all this ?
You are totally entitled to this opinion, but you are actually kind of insulting me with your post. I have never mentioned TS, I have never said what I was thinking about writing at all. You judge too fast, you could also have asked what the idea was for this instead of accusing me to probably write about bra sizes. I am totally aware of how people look at believers and don't think for a second that I am about to go write something that will make us look like nutcases. I also didn't say I wanted to write about vague clues. These ARE just theories, but that is what the section is called; theories and conspiracies. All we can do is present the things we have found the past 20 months and our THOUGHTS of why he did it and let readers decide for themselves. And because we all have different views, I posted this and invited others to participate as well.
When I tell people about this hoax, I never even mention TS. It would be too much info for the people and I know that if I would start on that, they would think I lost it, because for people outside of all this, TS' posts are hard to understand. So I tell them every bit of info that is messed up, all the contradictions and I discuss his possible reasons behind it. As soon as I explain about the entertainment industry being dirty and corrupt and the fact that they have tried to take MJ down with the child molestation charges for 2 decades, they get interested and want to learn more. That is when I tell them to visit the website and the forum, so that they can decide for themselves what to believe and what not.
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Well my thought is that we have no proof for all theories we have. And may i remind you that we do not all share the same belief about this hoax possibility. Those articles to me would just mean that the whole community of believers is ok with conspiracy theory, and i'm NOT.
What are we gonna talk about ? Cryptic post we received from we don't know who, who prooved that if i had my bra size and my IQ, i will find MJ's birthday, and this makes a proof that Elvis is alive...
Sorry but building articles and setting them public means we hold really something, and my feeling is that we still hold NOTHING... So to me this will just be lighting fires here and there, about illuminati, about music industry etc etc...and finally it will just remain suppositions... and just bring some more trouble with MJ fans and where will MJ's image stand among all this ?
If we're taking a vote, then I'd have to agree with WYHS. I was on the chat when the person came on and asked the question. They were told that they needed to speak with the admin. When that happened my opinion was that this person didn't seem very professional or they'd know how to contact the admin instead of trying to gain authority through the back door.
The Sun article ended in disaster. We were made to look even crazier than some think we are now. I don't think this will be any different because once again we have no control over what will be edited. The Sun took a legitimate story and removed valuable pieces to where in the end it was a different article. This, I fear, could have the same dreadful results.
Also, we don't have any real proof of the hoax. Yes, we have a lot of clues and a lot of information but not real proof. Is this person tracking down Pearl Jr or TR? If this person is a beLIEver then they already know what these two think about the hoax.
Lastly, we really don't know if Michael is in danger. I don't suspect so but one never knows. I think the forum is accessible for anyone wanting (and not) to know about the hoax. We come up almost immediately in search engines. We are on Twitter, Youtube, and Facebook. Believers have taken over the Internet. I don't think we need to give control of our information to anyone else.
This is just my thoughts and I will go with majority as I value your thoughts and opinions. Blessings.
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The timing of this magazine is interesting. Why now, and not a year ago for example. I have a good feeling Michael will return this year as do many here I believe. How much credibility and exposure will this magazine get if it comes out shortly before the BAM? Seems like a smart move for the magazine, to get right into the hoax at the "last minute". I guess as long as they give credit where credit is due...
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I am 100% sure that this is a wonderful idea!!! I hope that my family will buy the magazine when it is published.
The only advice I have for you is to pray about what you what the public to hear. I know God will help you. Let the Holy Spirit guide you so you will now what to say and how to put it in words so you will he able to touch peoples souls.
May God bless you.
while i agree wholeheartedly with the second part of your statement , which i have made known. it does puzzle me that you have seemingly jumped on this particular bandwagon after such a short time of being here. and the second part of your statement indicates that unless you have a reason to make it you are not well acquainted with the persons on this forum .i do not mean at all to offend . as i said it is just puzzleing.
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Well my thought is that we have no proof for all theories we have. And may i remind you that we do not all share the same belief about this hoax possibility. Those articles to me would just mean that the whole community of believers is ok with conspiracy theory, and i'm NOT.
What are we gonna talk about ? Cryptic post we received from we don't know who, who prooved that if i had my bra size and my IQ, i will find MJ's birthday, and this makes a proof that Elvis is alive...
Sorry but building articles and setting them public means we hold really something, and my feeling is that we still hold NOTHING... So to me this will just be lighting fires here and there, about illuminati, about music industry etc etc...and finally it will just remain suppositions... and just bring some more trouble with MJ fans and where will MJ's image stand among all this ?
You are totally entitled to this opinion, but you are actually kind of insulting me with your post. I have never mentioned TS, I have never said what I was thinking about writing at all. You judge too fast, you could also have asked what the idea was for this instead of accusing me to probably write about bra sizes. I am totally aware of how people look at believers and don't think for a second that I am about to go write something that will make us look like nutcases. I also didn't say I wanted to write about vague clues. These ARE just theories, but that is what the section is called; theories and conspiracies. All we can do is present the things we have found the past 20 months and our THOUGHTS of why he did it and let readers decide for themselves. And because we all have different views, I posted this and invited others to participate as well.
When I tell people about this hoax, I never even mention TS. It would be too much info for the people and I know that if I would start on that, they would think I lost it, because for people outside of all this, TS' posts are hard to understand. So I tell them every bit of info that is messed up, all the contradictions and I discuss his possible reasons behind it. As soon as I explain about the entertainment industry being dirty and corrupt and the fact that they have tried to take MJ down with the child molestation charges for 2 decades, they get interested and want to learn more. That is when I tell them to visit the website and the forum, so that they can decide for themselves what to believe and what not.
Then we'll see...but i don't think we need media to spread the word when your website and forum is 1st place EVERYWHERE concerning MJ's hoax...I agree with Voice that it's little useless to get in a mag that will maybe twisted our ideas, when we are already read by thousands of people...
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MJ's image is what this has the power to address if the articles are presented properly. Michael has been smeared with the inuendos of the child molestation allegations. Many people are ignorantly blinded to the facts surrounding these lies and here we have a chance to address this and present them with a true snapshot of what went down. I will take any soap box on offer to wake people to the facts that they have been lied to and hoodwinked into the public lynching of an innocent and generous soul. Media worked overtime to kill Michael's career. I say it's time to beat them using their own weapons.
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Awesomeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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MJ's image is what this has the power to address if the articles are presented properly. Michael has been smeared with the inuendos of the child molestation allegations. Many people are ignorantly blinded to the facts surrounding these lies and here we have a chance to address this and present them with a true snapshot of what went down. I will take any soap box on offer to wake people to the facts that they have been lied to and hoodwinked into the public lynching of an innocent and generous soul. Media worked overtime to kill Michael's career. I say it's time to beat them using their own weapons.
that idea is probably what most would be willing to stand behind.jmo
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MJ's image is what this has the power to address if the articles are presented properly. Michael has been smeared with the inuendos of the child molestation allegations. Many people are ignorantly blinded to the facts surrounding these lies and here we have a chance to address this and present them with a true snapshot of what went down. I will take any soap box on offer to wake people to the facts that they have been lied to and hoodwinked into the public lynching of an innocent and generous soul. Media worked overtime to kill Michael's career. I say it's time to beat them using their own weapons.
But we have to be careful that they don't just take the thread on doubles and pick through what they want and leave the rest. After all, it's a conspiracy section they want to publish this in. It's not in the justice section. I totally agree that we need to beat them with their own weapon but in my opinion Charles Thomson, Pearl Jr. Mr Wegener, etc., are the ones we should support to do that, not a magazine we don't have control over.
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not everyone has access to the internet most have access to the media and we must use that as our weapon to get the truth out top reach more people :geek: do you not think michael is using the media in some way :?:
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MJ's image is what this has the power to address if the articles are presented properly. Michael has been smeared with the inuendos of the child molestation allegations. Many people are ignorantly blinded to the facts surrounding these lies and here we have a chance to address this and present them with a true snapshot of what went down. I will take any soap box on offer to wake people to the facts that they have been lied to and hoodwinked into the public lynching of an innocent and generous soul. Media worked overtime to kill Michael's career. I say it's time to beat them using their own weapons.
But we have to be careful that they don't just take the thread on doubles and pick through what they want and leave the rest. After all, it's a conspiracy section they want to publish this in. It's not in the justice section. I totally agree that we need to beat them with their own weapon but in my opinion Charles Thomson, Pearl Jr. Mr Wegener, etc., are the ones we should support to do that, not a magazine we don't have control over.
Like I said, they will not write it, we will. The pieces I will send them will be the piece they will publish. As it is not a trashy tabloid like the Sun, they are truly interested in the subject. Same with the UK radiostation that interviewed me twice. Never were we made fun of, they were interested on the subject and the reasons behind the hoax. Not every media outlet is bad, some truly want to publish honest pieces. IF by any chance they would alter the text into something like the Sun did, they will not get another story, simple as that. Worst case scenario people will think we're nuts (who cares, they already do), MJ would be home safe because they wouldn't believe it anyway and thousands of people will read on THIS website that they screwed us, and they will get their own page like the Sun did. When we published the lies of the Sun, the media all over the world picked up on that, and reported worldwide that the Sun twisted a story, how mad we were about it, including a link to this website. So IF they would screw us, it won't be a disaster.
But when I look at the subjects they have, I think we are safe. It seems like a revolutionary magazine.
And seriously, I don't think Pearl Jr. is a good example. Chasing a fake and filming a wooden door is IMO not really a way to make us look sane, but that's just my opinion.
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@Voice...Souza said that they would print only what she submitted except for the typo's. Now maybe there could be some kind of contract drawn up stating that fact legally.
Sorry Souza...didn't see your post.
another edit to state that I am 100% behind Charles Wagener and support him, but this is a big battle and we need to reach as many as possible.
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I never heard of this magazine Wonderwall. I am sure Souza made her research before giving the ok. I just hope this magazine is legit and not a tabloid magazine like others. I just fear for Michael safety, if he is really in danger. I feel if it is written in our forum not everybody will know about the investigation we have done. By publicizing it to this magazine everyone will read it, and I am afraid that Michael may get more into problems. This is my opinion. Souza knows best, she spoke to that editor person, and if she has a good intuition about it well that will be ok with me.
blessings.
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I am totally behind this 100%!!
It's only negative exposure if its negative! ;)
Whats the use of 18 months of serious research if we don't share it??
Its an adventure, a GREAT ADVENTURE!
Congrats Souza, how exciting!
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Plz make sure you do your research Souza before you take any step.
Good luck !
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You have my support with this Souza. And also my prayers.
Same here, you have my full support. It has nothing to do with The Sun, this magazine deals with real issues and "hidden truth"(amongst other things)... It's not a tabloid
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I'm not so sure about going to the media idea is right. What if that puts Michael's life in danger? That's what I think about all the time. I don't know what exactly she is going to say but if we let the media know about Michael's issue about NWO and illuminati, would it be dangerous for him when he returns or safer for him? We need to think about this. Well Souza is not asking for our permission so whatever we say, the result is not going to change. So good luck with it Souza.
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I'm not so sure about going to the media idea is right. What if that puts Michael's life in danger? That's what I think about all the time. I don't know what exactly she is going to say but if we let the media know about Michael's issue about NWO and illuminati, would it be dangerous for him when he returns or safer for him? We need to think about this. Well Souza is not asking for our permission so whatever we say, the result is not going to change. So good luck with it Souza.
What difference would it make? Think of it: If MJ was in danger and people were after him, I am sure they are amongst of the 1 million+ that already visit this site, so what they will read in the magazine is no difference from what is already posted in here.
I will post the piece before I will send it to the editor, and I still have some questions for them as well. Here is their Facebook page:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Wonderwal ... 6086027789 (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Wonderwall-Magazine/107136086027789)
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I'm not so sure about going to the media idea is right. What if that puts Michael's life in danger? That's what I think about all the time. I don't know what exactly she is going to say but if we let the media know about Michael's issue about NWO and illuminati, would it be dangerous for him when he returns or safer for him? We need to think about this. Well Souza is not asking for our permission so whatever we say, the result is not going to change. So good luck with it Souza.
What difference would it make? Think of it: If MJ was in danger and people were after him, I am sure they are amongst of the 1 million+ that already visit this site, so what they will read in the magazine is no difference from what is already posted in here.
It would make everything more obvious. Like putting your finger in their blind eyes. They already know that is for sure, but spreading it on different media, they would become aware of it double times. Would it make Michael become number one target of them? I don't know. Or I don't know if this thing would make more people realize of NWO or not. I'm not so sure as I wrote. But we should realize that, this can harm Michael or it can bring him back. I just hope we're not putting his life in danger and he can come back safely.
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Wonderwall :D makes me think of someplace the Griswwolds would go for vacation.
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I belive that when he comes he will return in complete safety. I am sure he will now when the time is right to come. If he does get in danger I beloved he will be watched over by God and if he is killed I beliveve it will be because God's needs him back home. Just think of how safe he is know because of God's waatchful eye. Please keep the faith. He will be in God's hands now and forever.
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if he is killed I beliveve it will be because God's needs him back home.
Ohh God... Sometimes I just hope that Michael does NOT read the forum. And this is just one of those times. :roll:
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We are Wonderwall Magazine and are scheduled to do a small pre-release of our first issue at the Grammys this year. Hopefully we will make the deadline. Our magazine has a diverse line-up of over 13 sections to read from. Music, fashion, history, technology, legends, mind, body, spirit, comics, global events, film, and more.
However, the whole reason I started the magazine is to wake people up and help raise the awareness of the population. That is why I manage my favorite section, which is called Theories and Conspiracies. In the first issue we write about The Police State and the global elite. In the 2nd issue we will expose GMO's and Mass Media Mind Control. Attached are some unedited samples of Issue 1.p If there are mistakes I appologize, they will be fixed. I read all the material on your site and was blown away and completely shocked. I would love to provide you and your team of writers with a platform in Wonderwall Magazine where we will publish in sections, the truth behind the "The Jackson Consiracy".
We go to print every other month and can continue the story each month and even have a permanent column specifically for Michael called "The Jackson Files" that follows the story and any new information involved with his life and current whereabouts will be updated each issue.
Our goal is to be a monthly publication in 5-6 months and are optimistic and confident we will achieve it. Together we will expose the media puppeteers pulling the strings and manipulating the story and demand real answeres immedialtly. If it is ok with you, we can layout and bring life to the amazing writing already published on your site, give full credit to the writer and post it on our site with your link attached. (wonderwallmagazine.com)
You also can write new material as the story progresses. Let us know if you are interested. We aren't Rolling Stone yet, but our team is growing fast. I just want to help Michael out any way I can. I really can relate to him. We are open to ideas and suggestions and look forward to hearing from you.
According to this email the guy is saying he is going to want to use you and your team of writers. In my mind and opinion that means what all of us have contributed to this investigation. You would pick certain threads of discussion and give it to him. He will then print it in the magazine and credit the authors of that thread.
I think this is an awesome idea to get the hoax out there. If we don't try we will never know. The trial of Murray and did he do it or not is coming up and the hoax is gonna hit the airwaves then. This magazine isn't gonna be a threat to Michael. It will help expose the Evil in the world. We can't do it all by ourselves; we have to accept help where we can. ;)
From the begining of this email I already liked it. I also thought of JFK Jr. and his magazine George. :ugeek: The below info is from a post by TS so I do not think it would be a problem with him. IMO the below info is spilling the beans on the corruption just like this magazine wants to do. I don't see this as a problem at all.
Peace
viewtopic.php?f=125&t=1930 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=125&t=1930)
R31. George Magazine, Inaugural Issue
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/e ... ine%29.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a8/George_%28magazine%29.jpg)
This clue was the cover of the first issue of JFK Junior’s magazine, George. This redirect was chosen for multiple reasons, most of which can be seen on the cover picture—including these statements: “the next american revolution”; and “not just politics as usual”.
“George earned infamy in the conspiracy cyberculture, when an article slated to run in the October 1998 ‘Conspiracy Issue’ on the top conspiracy writers was killed at the last minute by George editors. Titled ‘Princes of Paranoia,’ it would have highlighted writers and websites that were popular in the field of conspiracy theory and given their work exposure to a wider audience.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_(magazine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_(magazine)) Less than a year later, on July 16, 1999, JFK Jr. was permanently silenced; after that, there would be no more danger of him exposing any conspiracies.
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R32. George? (Google Images, Page 10)
http://images.google.com/images?gbv=2&h ... 70&ndsp=21 (http://images.google.com/images?gbv=2&hl=en&q=George%3F&sa=N&start=170&ndsp=21)
The primary reason for the George magazine clue above, however, was the title itself: George. Regarding the assassination of JFK Senior: “… polls conducted from 1966 on show as many as 80% of the American public hold beliefs contrary to these findings [the government conclusion that Lee Harvey Oswald was the ‘lone gunman’].” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JFK_assassination (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JFK_assassination)
Close friends of JFK Jr. said, and common sense should also tell you, that his single biggest goal in life was: to discover the conspiracy behind his father’s murder, and bring it to public knowledge. He of all people in the world had the motivation, and also the connections, to get the “inside” information.
Yet he also knew that it wouldn’t be easy to get this information out, without making himself a target. So he decided to put the first name, of the person who orchestrated his father’s murder, into the title of his magazine. And he also had Cindy Crawford dressed as George Washington, to show the connection with the US Presidency (this would also serve to distract those who were not in tune with the real reason for the name “George”).
If you look at a list of US Presidents from the beginning until 1995 (when the magazine came out), you will find only two Presidents with the name “George”: George Washington, and George H. W. Bush (Senior) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Us_presidents (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Us_presidents). Obviously, George Washington did not orchestrate the assassination of JFK Sr. So it was George Bush Senior that murdered JFK Senior (and later George Bush Junior murdered JFK Junior).
These corrupt NWO leaders really don’t care if you believe in conspiracies, etc—just as long as the culprits remain in the realm of unidentified mysteries. But they definitely don’t want to be identified by name and face; especially not the well-known ones, like the Bush family.
The Google images page, at the time of this redirect (now the images are arranged differently), had pictures of all three “George” US Presidents: Washington, Bush Sr., and Bush Jr. Many noticed Bush Jr. to the right of Washington; but if you look close, the picture above Washington is Bush Senior http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpb ... &start=475 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=27&start=475), look at the second post by Serenity’s_Dream on that page.
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R33. Murder of JFK Jr.
http://revver.com/video/14470/murder-of-jfk-jr/ (http://revver.com/video/14470/murder-of-jfk-jr/)
This redirect was to the trailer for a video on the murder of JFK Jr. This murder of JFK was chosen, partly because it is a classic example of how much power these NWO leaders have over the media. If you watch the whole video, or even the trailer, you will see that the first news reports said that John had made a radio call just before the crash. Then when the Pentagon took over, this fact was silenced in all of the mainstream media channels.
There is one major piece of evidence, though, that did not get filtered out; it can still be found in the official NTSB report, on their official website http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_ ... 178&akey=1 (http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20001212X19354&ntsbno=NYC99MA178&akey=1): “The fuel selector valve was recovered … and the valve was found in the OFF position.” Yet the NTSB went along with the media story about the cause of the crash http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X19354 (http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X19354): “The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows: The pilot’s failure to maintain control of the airplane during a descent over water at night, which was a result of spatial disorientation.”
Any experienced pilot should see a glaring problem with the NTSB’s own report. If John lost control of the airplane from spatial disorientation (confusion): why was the fuel valve turned off? If you are disoriented and out of control, the only thing you are worried about is getting the plane level again; and turning off the fuel isn’t going to help level the plane in the least bit—that would be a total waste of time, when every second counts! And you can’t just accidentally bump it into the off position; no, it takes deliberate effort (so that you don’t accidentally shut the fuel off while flying, and lose your engine).
Also, shutting the fuel valve won’t keep you alive if the plane nosedives into the water or ground; you will most likely die from the impact. Furthermore, shutting the valve won’t keep the plane from catching on fire or exploding upon impact. Think about it. What about the planes that hit the trade towers: do you suppose if they had shut the fuel valves off just before impact, then there would’ve been no explosion?? Nonsense!
Then why was the fuel valve shut off in JFK Junior’s plane? Most likely, as stated in the video, there was a Manchurian candidate flight instructor on board. He was probably programmed to shut the fuel valve off, while John was making his radio call to the landing airport; John would be distracted at that moment, and might not notice the instructor turning the fuel valve off.
A few seconds later, the engine would quit from lack of fuel; then the instructor would push the plane into a nosedive. John would then have to physically fight the instructor to get the control back; and even if he succeeded at that (which would be very difficult), he would then have to deal with a dead engine. While trying to restart the engine, the instructor could nosedive the plane again; and so on.
The NTSB official website reports that the same basic thing happened on Egypt Air 990; and this was in the same general area, only about 100 days later. The “FDR [flight data recorder] recorded an abrupt nose-down elevator movement … the engines were shut off. … the captain, surprised to realize that the engines had been shut off, was trying to tell the relief first officer to leave the engines alone.” http://www.ntsb.gov/Publictn/2002/aab0201.htm (http://www.ntsb.gov/Publictn/2002/aab0201.htm)
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I think we should proceed with cautious optimism. If Jermaine can tell the world that Michael had already gone to the airport on June 25, 2009, we can submit an article about the hoax. :lol:
I would suggest that we stick to the more palatable pieces of evidence, at least initially. There's at least 50+ good reasons why we think Michael is alive and hoaxed his death, without bringing up the NWO and Illuminati, doubles and numbers theories, etc. I think we as a group are much more open to discussing and hearing about that stuff (whether we personally believe it or not), than john and jane q. public. Start talking about a secret society and the music industry devil, and we will certainly become a laughing stock and a group of crazies with no credibility. There is plenty mainstream, if lack of a better word, evidence, coincidences, and facts to get the readers' attention and have them start questioning the events surrounding June 25, along with learning about the real Michael Jackson and not the person the media portrayed him to be....all part of the rehabilitation of Michael's name and legacy. And, since they are looking for conspiracy type stories, the events leading up to and surrounding the 2005 trial is in itself enough to give you writer's cramp.
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I would suggest that we stick to the more palatable pieces of evidence, at least initially. There's at least 50+ good reasons why we think Michael is alive and hoaxed his death, without bringing up the NWO and Illuminati, doubles and numbers theories, etc.
Definitely agree with this one. We can share the info we have found without bringing up NWO/illuminati and numerology of the hoax etc.
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if he is killed I beliveve it will be because God's needs him back home.
Ohh God... Sometimes I just hope that Michael does NOT read the forum. And this is just one of those times. :roll:
If you do not have anything nice to say do not say it at all.
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if he is killed I beliveve it will be because God's needs him back home.
Ohh God... Sometimes I just hope that Michael does NOT read the forum. And this is just one of those times. :roll:
If you do not have anything nice to say do not say it at all.
The thing you wrote was sooooooooo "nice" that I could't resist it. :roll:
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Souza, you go, girl! You/we should take this chance full handed.
Fot those who are in doupt:
Remember, this is not only about Michael and the hoax, but also that the listing of inconsistencies in MJs so-called death will give people yet another valid chance to raise their own awareness to worlwide inconsistencies surrounding them/us. It's about sharpening ones focus.
Nothing is what it seems. The context of what happened within the past 20 months can be attributed to the rest of the worlds events.
So, Souza! You have my support in every way possible.
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I'm among those who think that MJ's life was (is) in danger,i don't really think that he will be back, not sure about the authenticity of this magazine but i still don't trust the media, i have bed feelings about all this, however everyone is entitled to his opinion, just plz Souza be careful, we don't know for sure the reasons behind this hoax and i really fear for Michael's life, what if he doesn't want the media to be involved in it , but still good luck to you, u're very smart and i know that u won't do anything that will harm Michael, again good luck to u.
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I think that it is a good thing to do. Remember the tweet from Jermaine mentionning that "The media should take notice".
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I have been searching their web http://wonderwallmagazine.com/ (http://wonderwallmagazine.com/)
The concept is a bit blurry to me. I am not sure what they want to accomplished with their publication.
Writing about the theories and research regarding MJ´s death can be positive when and always treated with respect and not being used just as a laughing box.
To talk about the death hoax is to present Michael´s life in a nut shell, all his pain and conspiracies against him, as people taking his money i.e.
It is important to present Michael as an humanitarian who did not have a weird life but needed to deal with weird situations that leaded him to his "death".
As long as Michael and We are treated with respect, and can spread the voice and truth about MJ, I am ok with the cooperation with that magazine.
I am also ok with the idea of donating the income from the articles for different causes as well as using part of that income to pay the hosting of the forum and whatever costs involved. So far we have not been asked for economical cooperation and this is an oportunity to "support" the platform and whatever charities may come along.
I hope this new magazine will be able to use theories and so called conspiracies to show that Michael Jackson was unfairly treated by media and leeaches all over his life as well as promoting the idea that may be we have been lied about regarding MJ´s death.
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I say we should go for it. The distrust is obviously something we've learned and it's a good thing but hopefully this will all be above-board and nothing will be printed without approval. The only sticking point I can see is the fact that not all of us have the same theories regarding the hoax so is there going to be some kind of formal direction these articles are going to take or are they just going to be an accumulation of the facts as we know them (as on the index page)? What I mean by that is , will there be an overriding theory that will represent all of us or will it be made clear that there are many different ideas? I know some won't be happy about certain aspects such as NWO, Illuminati etc being cited as reasons and then having readers assume that's what we all believe. Yes we want our story out there but it's a bit more tricky when our stories aren't all the same! ;) Same goes with the religious stuff, many people here will want that mentioned and many won't. It'll be a balancing act that's for sure!
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If anyone is curious as to exactly what they publish then just check out their website...wonderwallmagazine.com...I hope those of you who do check it out have better luck then I did because I don't know if it's just my computer or what but whenever I clicked on something to view it I never got the article or pics to show up on my screen but feel free to try.As for whether to do it or not,if the estate disagrees then I guess it will be a no go,just be careful :)
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I would suggest that we stick to the more palatable pieces of evidence, at least initially. There's at least 50+ good reasons why we think Michael is alive and hoaxed his death, without bringing up the NWO and Illuminati, doubles and numbers theories, etc.
Definitely agree with this one. We can share the info we have found without bringing up NWO/illuminati and numerology of the hoax etc.
I agree with you guys.
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I think we are all agreeing that we are not agreeing upon the reasons that Michael left. We also agree, it appears, from the ones who think it a good idea, to do the magazine, that the articles should be focused upon the discrepancies in the entire death hoax. NOT the reasons for doing it. WE DO NOT KNOW Michael, and presuming that we KNOW why he's done this is verging on just silly and we'd get called out on that. Anyone can speculate and almost all we do is that. We love Michael, and research more than most of the world, so we feel we know him more than the world. But, to the world, THAT in itself makes us just as crazy. I don't know how much monthly info we can give on the discrepancies, maybe not give it all out at once? Maybe begin by telling our story. Beginning with Souza... then slowly release the discrepancies in the hoax monthly? To get into .."oh I believe it's because of Sony" or the NWO or illum. or God or religion... this will send them off to just dismiss us and what good we try to do. I would if someone told me Elvis left because aliens came and took him, and to the world who don't believe, some of our ideas, (though sound to us) are that crazy to the world.
I pray for this situation.
BTW...on a different ♪ so I don't have to find a place to put this comment,
Last night I had a reoccurring nightmare about a very violent domestic abuse marriage I was in. I woke up panicky. Then opened my eyes and though there in the dark....oh my gosh!!! I know why MIchael couldn't sleep. The thoughts of what he'd been through as..not only a child and the press haunting him and the stress from vultures, but the trials!!! I'm sure that was traumatic as my nightmares are to me. Post traumatic stress disorder. He probably tried all he could to block it out and sleep without dreams. I take melatonin to sleep and still it comes to me at night after being out of it 8 years. POOOOOR MIchael. He was so haunted by his very life it over took even his unconsciousness.
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It doesn't matter what I say but for the sake of saying it here goes. I really think they are going to use you, abuse you and spit you out to be laughed at. Yes it would be written here and then twisted and trashed into what ever they wanted to print. To me it sounds like more people trying to use poor Michael to gain popularity and use this forum to do it. They don't need us at all. They can write whatever they want. But what do they do, use this forum as a scapegoat, a box of crazies. And it's real funny it takes them this long to approach someone here. Do what you like though.
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I would only advise that when you do write that first article, start simple with all the oddities we've collected that are featured in the index page. That way, you're piquing their interest without going "out there." :D Good luck with it! The worse that could happen is that they twist our words but if people go on this site via their link, they can get the truth and they are not a major publication so if anything, they run the risk of losing visitors instead of us.
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i could be wrong but i think when we signed on here the agreement was that whatever we contributed belonged to the site owner , or at least that is what i understood. just thought everyone should be reminded of that as this goes forward.
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This situation is a damned if you do and a damned if you don't.
What we have to consider:
1. If we don't cooperate with this magazine, they could still publish the material found on the site. Rewriting it any way they choose and we would have less input into the articles but the magazine would not be connected to us.
2. If we cooperate with this magazine, they can edit the material and still present it as they choose but after the first article we would know the angle that would be used. But the magazine would have piggy backed us for sales already. As a result we may get more visitors to the site but If we then decided to withdraw our support the magazine could continue to write the articles anyway they chose to but possibly disconnect from the site.
Also depending on how this magazine is accepted by the public, we have no idea what the effect will be on the acceptance or denial of the hoax and the whether we will be labelled even further publicly as "crazies".
3. The members of this forum, do not even agree on the major theories. I for one am adamant that the doubles theory is majorly flawed as it has been presented on the site. The twin theory is totally illogical. I believe that both of those theories have contributed to the loss of credibility, for both us and the hoax, that we have been experiencing. These theories and many others have affected the entire hoax. How can we, in good conscious, present these theories as factual when we can't even agree that they are even truly plausible?
4. I know that Souza is the administrator of this site but she is not the spokesperson for the entire hoax community and not even for myself. I believe that before "We" decide anything in regards to this that members and administrators of other forums should be approached for their thoughts on this idea.
5.After reading Souza's post, it is apparent that she will do what she wants whether we like it or not.
You all know I never ask permission to talk to the media about the hoax, and this time I won't either, because unless someone can show me that these people can't be trusted, I think this will be a great platform to get the story out there.
Souza is not asking us for our permission, she has already decided what she is planning to do. She is justifying why she believes this to be a good idea; in other words selling us on why her decision to cooperate with this magazine is a good idea. Well, that is presumptuous of Souza and disrespectful to us all, if we are a "team". Now, Souza is free to do as she pleases but don't try and disguise that as "US" deciding because that isn't what is going on here. At this point, I am concerned that Souza has forgotten that she is only an investigator in this hoax, just like everyone else and no one elected her to speak for the entire community.
6. This magazine has not even printed a single issue yet, they have no readers. They could very well be using Michael's name as a marketing tool. If we can write articles, we can create our own magazine and then would have full control over the content and any all proceeds could be donated to a charity of our choice.
I will not be participating in this, not because I don't think that we should be utilizing the media to get the message out but because we need to control what appears in print and is attached to our investigations. In this format, control is taken completely out of our hands, given to Souza to edit any articles before submission to the magazine and then further given to the magazine to make further changes to the submitted pieces.
Souza, if you choose to continue this, without further consideration for the members of this forum and others within the hoax community, I feel that this will reflect poorly on you; I will definitely lose respect for you, and withdraw my support of this forum itself. You do not have the blessing of the members here or the community at large. This is not your choice to make alone, on ours or Michael's behalf.
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SD, you are again judging me before I have even voiced what I am planning to write. Besides that, I asked others to participate and I also said I would post it here first. Nowhere in this thread have I said that I am going to throw in the double theory or any other theory people do or do not agree on. In fact, I have not said anything at all about the content of the first article I want to write. Maybe you should hold your horses until you have read the draft. The only thing I have stated is that I do not have to ask permission to talk to any newspaper about the hoax, since we all (and therefore me as well) can do whatever we want. I never claimed to be a spokesperson for anyone and I will not speak for the members of this forum. Maybe you should wait with your judgement on me until you have read what I am about to write first.
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SD, you are again judging me before I have even voiced what I am planning to write. Besides that, I asked others to participate and I also said I would post it here first. Nowhere in this thread have I said that I am going to throw in the double theory or any other theory people do or do not agree on. In fact, I have not said anything at all about the content of the first article I want to write. Maybe you should hold your horses until you have read the draft. The only thing I have stated is that I do not have to ask permission to talk to any newspaper about the hoax, since we all (and therefore me as well) can do whatever we want. I never claimed to be a spokesperson for anyone and I will not speak for the members of this forum. Maybe you should wait with your judgement on me until you have read what I am about to write first.
No, This isn't me judging you at all. You have made it perfectly clear that you have decided to do this with or without our blessing. Since this is the case then as I said, I will no longer support this forum or you personally. If you want to write articles and publish them in this magazine, then you do so as yourself and keep the rest of us out of it.
You do not speak for me, your views do not even reflect my own and you have a lot of nerve to say "what I am planning to write" and " I have not said anything at all about the content of the first article I want to write." This is telling us all that you have decided this and that you will be writing the articles maybe with some input from others on the content. It doesn't matter what the rest of us feel about this then. Well, no one crowned you Queen of the hoax community and you do not dictate to us.
Well, say hello to Dutch Pearl Jr. unfreaken believable, use the material that the forum members have uncovered to write articles/book so a magazine/book can profit.
And to think, I have been defending your ass on mjhd.net...perhaps I should be careful about whom I decide to back up.
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Of course Souza, you can do whatever you like, and inkeeping with your claim not to be a spokesperson for anyone, I would like to ask that you make it clear in any articles you submit, that the views expressed are your own and not necessarily those of other hoax believers and especially not MJ's. I don't see how anyone can have a problem then.
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SD, you are again judging me before I have even voiced what I am planning to write. Besides that, I asked others to participate and I also said I would post it here first. Nowhere in this thread have I said that I am going to throw in the double theory or any other theory people do or do not agree on. In fact, I have not said anything at all about the content of the first article I want to write. Maybe you should hold your horses until you have read the draft. The only thing I have stated is that I do not have to ask permission to talk to any newspaper about the hoax, since we all (and therefore me as well) can do whatever we want. I never claimed to be a spokesperson for anyone and I will not speak for the members of this forum. Maybe you should wait with your judgement on me until you have read what I am about to write first.
No, This isn't me judging you at all. You have made it perfectly clear that you have decided to do this with or without our blessing. Since this is the case then as I said, I will no longer support this forum or you personally. If you want to write articles and publish them in this magazine, then you do so as yourself and keep the rest of us out of it.
You do not speak for me, your views do not even reflect my own and you have a lot of nerve to say "what I am planning to write" and " I have not said anything at all about the content of the first article I want to write." This is telling us all that you have decided this and that you will be writing the articles maybe with some input from others on the content. It doesn't matter what the rest of us feel about this then. Well, no one crowned you Queen of the hoax community and you do not dictate to us.
Well, say hello to Dutch Pearl Jr. unfreaken believable, use the material that the forum members have uncovered to write articles/book so a magazine/book can profit.
And to think, I have been defending your ass on mjhd.net...perhaps I should be careful about whom I decide to back up.
You are free to do whatever you want SD, and I never asked you to back me up anywhere. You have been wrong about me before, you are again now. Until you have read the piece, you can't possibly judge it. Yet you do. I thought we had learned more the past 20 months.
Maybe you should start your own forum and show people you can do a better job. You have my blessings.
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Of course Souza, you can do whatever you like, and inkeeping with your claim not to be a spokesperson for anyone, I would like to ask that you make it clear in any articles you submit, that the views expressed are your own and not necessarily those of other hoax believers and especially not MJ's. I don't see how anyone can have a problem then.
Good idea. That way it clears us from any unnecessary drama that I already see is brewing.
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Of course Souza, you can do whatever you like, and inkeeping with your claim not to be a spokesperson for anyone, I would like to ask that you make it clear in any articles you submit, that the views expressed are your own and not necessarily those of other hoax believers and especially not MJ's. I don't see how anyone can have a problem then.
Good idea. That way it clears us from any unnecessary drama that I already see is brewing.
i would think that could go a long way in setting the tone for the integrity of the magazine as well.
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Initially I think it is a good idea in some respects and in other respects, we need to be vigilant. I think it is great that a magazine is willing to take on this project of this magnitude as we have been working hard for the past 20 months on investigating Michael's "passing".
My only concern is that all members should be in the loop on how this is written, particularly when members' posts are actually referred to and credit is due when given. Giving credit to a person is one thing, but using their own words to fit the context of another writer is another thing. That is where my concern is and some members may get upset that their postings are being used in a different context as to what they wrote in the first place. I am purely coming from a legal point of view, I am in the field and my brain always jumps to the legal aspects of people's rights and protection of their views and opinions. So that being said, I hope that this is taken into consideration. We have to protect the privacy and postings of individuals on here.
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Initially I think it is a good idea in some respects and in other respects, we need to be vigilant. I think it is great that a magazine is willing to take on this project of this magnitude as we have been working hard for the past 20 months on investigating Michael's "passing".
My only concern is that all members should be in the loop on how this is written, particularly when members' posts are actually referred to and credit is due when given. Giving credit to a person is one thing, but using their own words to fit the context of another writer is another thing. That is where my concern is and some members may get upset that their postings are being used in a different context as to what they wrote in the first place. I am purely coming from a legal point of view, I am in the field and my brain always jumps to the legal aspects of people's rights and protection of their views and opinions. So that being said, I hope that this is taken into consideration. We have to protect the privacy and postings of individuals on here.
Again, I do not speak for others, nor will I use other's theories in what I write. Instead of that, I have asked everyone in my original post to participate if they want. Please wait for the draft before judging because everyone is only assuming what I will do, and yet no one popped the question "Souza, what do you have in mind with this?". I see no questions, only assumptions.
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i wonder if the whole debate isn't telling us something.
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I am confident that if Michael had a problem with this idea, Souza would already know about it.
Souza, what do you have in mind for the article?
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Souza - I think it is a good idea - I said that at the beginning - however, I think we should all take part in what should be written and how the reader will view our opinion about a certain section of the hoax. That is why I mentioned that we should all have a read at what you are drafting and if we think there should be revisions to the article, we all make them together. Once we are satisfied that all aspects of the article is what we all agree upon then it can be published.
However, for those who do not wish to participate in this process, there should be a disclaimer at the end of the article stating that the views expressed in this article are not from all the members of the MJHD Forum, just to make it clear.
We are in this together and I believe any undertaking particularly something that will be viewed by the general public, should be our collective thoughts and theories and should be worked together on and agreed by all who wish to participate.
So what is the topic that you have in mind?
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I am confident that if Michael had a problem with this idea, Souza would already know about it.
Souza, what do you have in mind for the article?
Souza doesn't have a direct line to Michael. She is not an insider nor involved in the hoax. Michael is not communicating with her, he is not here speaking for himself; his voice has been silenced. So no, Souza would not know already about whether Michael has a problem with this or not. None of us here actually speak directly for Michael; not Souza, not TS, not you, not me and no one else.
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Souza, as I see it, the negative reactions come mostly from this quote of yours
You all know I never ask permission to talk to the media about the hoax, and this time I won't either
@shelby61,
I agree with your post
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Souza, what do you have in mind for the article?
Thank you for asking bec!
Here is the idea. Because we get a column and will be able to send in articles for every issue, I thought it would be best to start the first article with an introduction without going into details. Just something that might peak the interest of the readers and my personal thoughts about the hoax.We can use the articles after that to go into detail about the odd stuff and anyone who wants to participate can write. I know for example that the AR is full of BS, but I am not a medical savvy. Someone with a medical background might be more qualified to write a piece about the AR. Someone else might have done research about something else, and is invited to write a piece about that.
I am planning to end the article with saying that the above are my personal thoughts on the hoax, which made me believe what I believe now and that Wonderwall gave us as a forum the chance to tell our story and that everyone on here has their own, and their own thoughts on the whys and the hows, but that we are all aiming for one goal: clearing his name and debunking the lies of the media. If you bec for example would want to write part 2, your name will be under the article and you could express YOUR thoughts on the hoax. Let's say the goal for my article is to make people question his death. I will write about the stuff that made me believe he didn't die, and I can express my thoughts on it. You for example write a piece about your thoughts on the hoax and why and what you believe, and have as main subject Conrad Murray and all the BS surrounding him. That way people will presented with the different theories without it being a main subject, plus people get informed about the hoax and all the strange stuff surrounding it.
As for credits: I don't think it's possible to credit everytime we say something. If I for instance refer to an oddity about Conrad, it would be very hard to find out who exactly was the first who found it. We all found stuff and just saying 'it was posted on the forum' should be enough. People can search for it themselves and see who mentioned it first. People don't have to credit me either, because I think we should work as a team to get the word out and I don't think we should have fights about who said what first. It's not a competition in my eyes.
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SD: The point is that Souza's intention is out there, publicly, on the forum, in this 3 page thread, being much discussed.
I am confident in the fact that anything we discuss here on this public forum, Michael is privy to one way or another. If he doesn't like it, or wants it stopped, he has ways to make that happen.
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that we are all aiming for one goal: clearing his name and debunking the lies of the media
That´s my goal as well.
We all found stuff and just saying 'it was posted on the forum' should be enough
I agree.
It's not a competition in my eyes
Is not.
The goal is clear I believe, clearing his name and debunking the lies of the media.
I may add, that is important to focus in theories that can be provided as a fact, as an example time lines, the AR, and the signatures shown in different documents i.e
Imo, "para-theories" as NWO, Visions, Michael=Holly, alien or world saviour via hoax etc, should be omitted.
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I agree 100% Gema. That's the only sticking point that I could see.
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@Souza - I am just wanting to put that out there because if you or any writings are not cleared by the actual author or you copy word for word someone's else's post without their permission and do not credit them, you may end up in a lawsuit. I am talking about crediting something you may quote word for word, not a topical issue generally (for example: Conrad Murray oddities). Not saying that anyone on here would do that, but just protecting you and everyone here and making sure they understand what they are getting into before the put their words into action.
I believe setting the tone of the first article is very important and I think it should be written with Michael in mind and why we think he did this and then perhaps in the next article be more specific about a certain situation (ie the ambulance)... perhaps we should be start from the beginning (which would be the 911 call) and go from there. As Michael always the story needs a beginning and an end. Right now we are in the middle of it ;)
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a little help from berry goordy: don't remember the exact words but it was something about remembering where you have been in order to know where you are going.
viewtopic.php?f=97&t=9657&p=161702&hilit=once+again+the+sun#p161702 (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=97&t=9657&p=161702&hilit=once+again+the+sun#p161702)
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"WONDERWALL" = do they have permission from Oasis to use that name for their magazine?
Im a huge fan of Oasis. :D I wonder what Noel Gallagher would think?
Ummm... well, im not adverse to the magazine idea. The only issue is with the money. If the money paid is completely open and tranparent and can be easily seen to be tracked by all the forum members here... that we can track the payment from the magazine to the chosen charity then i believe this is a good thing.
Anything that would benefit a charity, in the name of Michael, is a wonderful thing and i know MJ would approve. Because thats what its all about.
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I am confident in the fact that anything we discuss here on this public forum, Michael is privy to one way or another. If he doesn't like it, or wants it stopped, he has ways to make that happen.
I agree with this Bec, and I really think that Michael is ok with this forum, that it has his blessing, as it were. It is, the "official" one afterall (TMZ blogroll, TS, etc.) and Souza has said a few times that if the family opposed the forum then she would shut it down.
@ Souza - I think it's a good idea to have different members write different articles for this magazine, if the magazine goes ahead with publication. I believe most members here don't have a full grasp on every aspect of the hoax but may have a firm grasp on certain aspects so it's a good idea to have someone write about something that makes sense to them, that they fully understand (from their perspective at least).
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There is also an already existing "Wonderwall" celebrity gossip website.
http://wonderwall.msn.com/
And of course the song by "Oasis".
Anyways, I am done with this. I have stated my reluctance to be involved and my opinion on Souza appointing herself as the representative of the Hoax community. I am currently researching the legal issues about my posts on this forum and whether or not the forum owner must honour a request, by me, to delete theses posts.
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I just want to help Michael out any way I can. I really can relate to him.
That is what the guy from the magazine said at the end of his email. To me what he is saying is after he has already read the forum he wants to help MICHAEL in any way. Just like we do, right?
This next part might not come across to friendly but I am feeling an urge to express a few thoughts. First I am amazed to see such flip flop of loyalty. I am amazed at how quickly some people are to stab someone in the back after over a year of investigating together. Actually I am not surprised after all because it happened to me as well. I was stabbed real hard in the back.
What I am amazed at is WTF happened to keeping the FAITH no matter what?
How did Souza become #1 public enemy? How did TS go from being on the good side to now again on the bad side. This baffles me because the people who are flip flopping were the same ones who were SO SURE before about TS, who he really is, and whom he speaks for.
I am NOT referring to Mo. As for her I feel as though she ended up having a feeling of something like buyers remorse. She has every right to leave the forum and distant herself.
What I am trippin on is longtime members expressing so much anger and blaming Souza for all the bad shit that happened on the forum. Members who are distanting themselves as far away as possible from the board (yet still come here to post negative remarks).
I am trippin on the members who are worried about theories being published in a magazine in a section about conspiracies and THEORIES like NWO, Illuminati, corrupt shit happening in our governments, God, and whatever else.
I am trippin on the fact that some members forget that this forum is open to public eyes right now. All our thoughts, words, and theories are here for the world to see; if the world thinks we are crazy then they do so now. The world is crazy itself.
Putting articles in a magazine will not start the world to think we are nuts. What trips me out is how many of you who are quick to step backwards and say I am not down for this project. I am not supporting you Souza. When times get tough only those who meant what they said from the get go will be left standing strong right by Michael's side and Souza's. Soldiers do not step backwards and get fearful they step up to the plate and do whatever it takes.
The hypocrisy is getting to me and I said from the beginning of this post I wasn't gonna be nice so if your offended by my opinion sorry I warned ya.
Peace
[youtube:1sue0gnc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwOZjncI5qw[/youtube:1sue0gnc]
Whatever Happens Don't let go of his hand!
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@SerenityDream
I would be interested to know your findings in that. Can we refuse to have our posts included? Can we have them deleted upon request? :shock:
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@SerenityDream
I would be interested to know your findings in that. Can we refuse to have our posts included? Can we have them deleted upon request? :shock:
It appears that having your posts removed from a forum falls into a "grey" area within the legal realm. You retain copyright of all of your posts but the site has implied use of them on this site only. Anything posted here can not be used without your permission as part of any article being proposed to be published in this magazine. If Souza, follows through with this plan and includes material posted by others, without their written consent, she opens herself and the site up to lawsuits. There must be some deep consideration given to what is being proposed here, when we are not all agreeing to proceed with this.
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@SerenityDream
I would be interested to know your findings in that. Can we refuse to have our posts included? Can we have them deleted upon request? :shock:
It appears that having your posts removed from a forum falls into a "grey" area within the legal realm. You retain copyright of all of your posts but the site has implied use of them on this site only. Anything posted here can not be used without your permission as part of any article being proposed to be published in this magazine. If Souza, follows through with this plan and includes material posted by others, without their written consent, she opens herself and the site up to lawsuits. There must be some deep consideration given to what is being proposed here, when we are not all agreeing to proceed with this.
Sorry SD, but do you have problems reading, or are you simply ignoring my replies?
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Is it me or are we only discussing credits now? Is this a competition? Did I miss something?
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@SerenityDream
I would be interested to know your findings in that. Can we refuse to have our posts included? Can we have them deleted upon request? :shock:
It appears that having your posts removed from a forum falls into a "grey" area within the legal realm. You retain copyright of all of your posts but the site has implied use of them on this site only. Anything posted here can not be used without your permission as part of any article being proposed to be published in this magazine. If Souza, follows through with this plan and includes material posted by others, without their written consent, she opens herself and the site up to lawsuits. There must be some deep consideration given to what is being proposed here, when we are not all agreeing to proceed with this.
Sorry SD, but do you have problems reading, or are you simply ignoring my replies?
I haven't missed a thing Souza and I have absolutely no problems reading at all.
Is it me or are we only discussing credits now? Is this a competition? Did I miss something?
No, we aren't talking credit or competition. We are talking about including information provided by individuals who do not support this, do not want to have their reserach included in this, being included when one has expressed definitively that they do not want nor agree with proceeding with this, the possible consequences of such actions and what in my opinion has come down to an abuse of perceived power ..."I am going to do this, on behalf of the hoax community and Michael, whether I have yours or Michael's blessing or not."
Do you have a problem reading and comprehending this?
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@SerenityDream
I would be interested to know your findings in that. Can we refuse to have our posts included? Can we have them deleted upon request? :shock:
It appears that having your posts removed from a forum falls into a "grey" area within the legal realm. You retain copyright of all of your posts but the site has implied use of them on this site only. Anything posted here can not be used without your permission as part of any article being proposed to be published in this magazine. If Souza, follows through with this plan and includes material posted by others, without their written consent, she opens herself and the site up to lawsuits. There must be some deep consideration given to what is being proposed here, when we are not all agreeing to proceed with this.
Sorry SD, but do you have problems reading, or are you simply ignoring my replies?
I haven't missed a thing Souza and I have absolutely no problems reading at all.
Is it me or are we only discussing credits now? Is this a competition? Did I miss something?
No, we aren't talking credit or competition. We are talking about including information provided by individuals who do not support this, do not want to have their reserach included in this, being included when one has expressed definitively that they do not want nor agree with proceeding with this, the possible consequences of such actions and what in my opinion has come down to an abuse of perceived power ..."I am going to do this, on behalf of the hoax community and Michael, whether I have yours or Michael's blessing or not."
Do you have a problem reading and comprehending this?
Sorry to burst your buble SD, but I don't even read your posts. Besides that, I have stated a few posts earlier what my idea was and that did not include copying anyones post. I have absolutely no problem reading, you clearly have. If you don't like it here, just leave and take your judgemental assumptions with you.
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I'm just glad to hear that our "names" won't be used in the articles with the comments, as I don't care to be tracked down by my "name"...:) we're on here speaking freely because we have "trust" here...
Again, I'd feel out the family. They are number one and the link to Michael.
I know it's been said they could've shut down the site, but, a magazine is different. People come to us wanting kinship. The magazine introduces our thoughts upon those who didn't have them.
Maybe a good thing, granted. But, generally, those who agree are with us. Those who aren't ridicule.
I don't care who gets credit. This conception WAS Souza's. She's had the time and expense. But, my only thoughts are Michael. (and that us becoming his crazy FANily to the world only further hurts him)
I also think that a lot of us don't agree with the WHY"S of the hoax. I think that readers should draw their own conclusions. Given our theories, it should also be noted that MOST of us don't go along with quite a lot of the theories. Let the reader then decide which ones to believe.
Tread carefully while dealing with the enemy. (media) Michael learned the hard way.
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To quote you from .net SD:
Yes, I definitely feel used, just as I did when Pearl Jr. transcribed 2 of my videos into her emoviebook without ever asking me or informing me she was doing so. I do feel that some of the things, I have investigated are important and need to be considered by as many people as possible and these forums are the only way to spread that information. No matter what, MJHDI does have the most membership and highest exposure and this is what leaves me in a bind because the administrator of MJHDI has her own agenda, as you stated, and the rest of us be damned (including Michael).
It clearly shows that your only concern is yourself. You are not even reading or trying to participate in the discussion like the others. The only things you are concerned about are your own posts, yet you say you want to share them with as many people as possible. Since I asked people to participate, you could also just have offered to write a piece yourself, but you chose to attack me instead and are now gossiping behind my back on .net and copying all my posts on there. Did I give permission for that? No. Do I care? No again. But I do not appreciate members acting like that, I put to much time and work into this board to be stabbed in the back like that by the members. Practice what you preach SD and stop attacking something that doesn't even exist yet.
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I just want to help Michael out any way I can. I really can relate to him.
That is what the guy from the magazine said at the end of his email. To me what he is saying is after he has already read the forum he wants to help MICHAEL in any way. Just like we do, right?
This next part might not come across to friendly but I am feeling an urge to express a few thoughts. First I am amazed to see such flip flop of loyalty. I am amazed at how quickly some people are to stab someone in the back after over a year of investigating together. Actually I am not surprised after all because it happened to me as well. I was stabbed real hard in the back.
What I am amazed at is WTF happened to keeping the FAITH no matter what?
How did Souza become #1 public enemy? How did TS go from being on the good side to now again on the bad side. This baffles me because the people who are flip flopping were the same ones who were SO SURE before about TS, who he really is, and whom he speaks for.
I am NOT referring to Mo. As for her I feel as though she ended up having a feeling of something like buyers remorse. She has every right to leave the forum and distant herself.
What I am trippin on is longtime members expressing so much anger and blaming Souza for all the bad shit that happened on the forum. Members who are distanting themselves as far away as possible from the board (yet still come here to post negative remarks).
I am trippin on the members who are worried about theories being published in a magazine in a section about conspiracies and THEORIES like NWO, Illuminati, corrupt shit happening in our governments, God, and whatever else.
I am trippin on the fact that some members forget that this forum is open to public eyes right now. All our thoughts, words, and theories are here for the world to see; if the world thinks we are crazy then they do so now. The world is crazy itself.
Putting articles in a magazine will not start the world to think we are nuts. What trips me out is how many of you who are quick to step backwards and say I am not down for this project. I am not supporting you Souza. When times get tough only those who meant what they said from the get go will be left standing strong right by Michael's side and Souza's. Soldiers do not step backwards and get fearful they step up to the plate and do whatever it takes.
The hypocrisy is getting to me and I said from the beginning of this post I wasn't gonna be nice so if your offended by my opinion sorry I warned ya.
Peace
[youtube:3kvc6r96]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwOZjncI5qw[/youtube:3kvc6r96]
Whatever Happens Don't let go of his hand!
It is not that people do not support Souza, they are worried about Michael. It is not Souza who is hiding, and fear for her life, it is Michael. We are all concerned about Michael. I for one, am hesitant, and I did quote, as long as Souza did researches than I am fine. If it is a respectable magazine then go for it. If it is a tabloid than be careful. We all love Michael and we do not want any harm towards him. I do not know Souza, but I am convinced she is a bright woman who will not jeapordize Michael and us. Blessing everyone.
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I have faith in Souza that she will do a great job...i give her my support ! The bad thing is that no other 'fan' made a statement ...made an article so that it can reach people's minds and thoughts about all of this! I wish she (Souza) would speak about Illuminati too! people should know about that :because Illuminati takes away our children and puts them against us!..about Michael's trials! WHO is willing to try to clear his name!? the 'stalkers' ? NO they disappear into the night and make parties in the name of Michael ....(well some of them). BUT they don't SHOUT to the media to take off the dirt on his name! not now and not even when he was alive!
SOUZA i really appreciate you, and i wish i could get into this project but i don't normally talk and don't know how to express myself in certain situations! God bless you : do what you have to do,you have a smart point of view on how things should be done!
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To quote you from .net SD:
Yes, I definitely feel used, just as I did when Pearl Jr. transcribed 2 of my videos into her emoviebook without ever asking me or informing me she was doing so. I do feel that some of the things, I have investigated are important and need to be considered by as many people as possible and these forums are the only way to spread that information. No matter what, MJHDI does have the most membership and highest exposure and this is what leaves me in a bind because the administrator of MJHDI has her own agenda, as you stated, and the rest of us be damned (including Michael).
It clearly shows that your only concern is yourself. You are not even reading or trying to participate in the discussion like the others. The only things you are concerned about are your own posts, yet you say you want to share them with as many people as possible. Since I asked people to participate, you could also just have offered to write a piece yourself, but you chose to attack me instead and are now gossiping behind my back on .net and copying all my posts on there. Did I give permission for that? No. Do I care? No again. But I do not appreciate members acting like that, I put to much time and work into this board to be stabbed in the back like that by the members. Practice what you preach SD and stop attacking something that doesn't even exist yet.
I am not gossiping, they are members of the hoax community and have a right to know what you are planning on doing; this affects all believers and the re-posting these posts are facts not gossip. What I am concerned about is Michael, the hoax, the community and the general public's perception. I suggested that you discuss this with other forum's administration and members before deciding for us all, what should be done. You are not our spokesperson; you speak only for yourself and have no right to nominate yourself to this position. I have read every single post in this thread and I do not agree with you or what you are proposing to do. You do not have the blessings of all of us, in publishing these proposed magazine articles, on our behalf nor Michael's. You are an administrator of one forum, out of many. Somewhere along this adventure, you seem to have started to believe that you are now some kind of expert on Michael, the hoax, what he wants us to do or not do, and again our spokesperson and are dictating to us. None of these are true. Give your head a shake and set your feet back on the ground, all the attention seems to have inflated your image of yourself or something.
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[youtube:3oe18s5e]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dou0kGEWtQc[/youtube:3oe18s5e]
Thank you Michael for the advice. It is so very true. I agree with believe in yourself no matter what. I agree with more than that but most of all I feel that every single person who is commenting or reading this thread can take a learning lesson from this advice Michael gave to us.
Peace
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I still think that if the money issue is totally open and honest and trackable... and that we, the forum members, can clearly see that the money paid from the magazine is going directly to a charity in Michaels name....
well... any money that benefits a charity is a wonderful thing. If we can channel money towards those in need... thats what it is all about.
And as far as i am aware.. none of the profits Pearl made were ever given to charity.
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I still think that if the money issue is totally open and honest and trackable... and that we, the forum members, can clearly see that the money paid from the magazine is going directly to a charity in Michaels name....
well... any money that benefits a charity is a wonderful thing. If we can channel money towards those in need... thats what it is all about.
And as far as i am aware.. none of the profits Pearl made were ever given to charity.
i really don't think it is about the money.
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I have to say I am worried as to how it would effect Michael his family and most importantly his children I always felt this was a place to talk over thoughts and worries ideas I know people can see . I worry that this magazine see it as a way to attract buyers but they don't care about Michael . I never thought peoples theories would be printed plus it will stop a lot of people posting in the future I just care about Michael and his children and how it might affect them sorry
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I still think that if the money issue is totally open and honest and trackable... and that we, the forum members, can clearly see that the money paid from the magazine is going directly to a charity in Michaels name....
well... any money that benefits a charity is a wonderful thing. If we can channel money towards those in need... thats what it is all about.
And as far as i am aware.. none of the profits Pearl made were ever given to charity.
i really don't think it is about the money.
Oh, its always about the money where Michael Jackson is concerned. x
The money situation has the potential to totally blow up in our faces. I do not wish to participate in anything that makes a profit in Michaels name. If it all goes to charity. And if that money is openly trackable to the last penny... if it all goes to a good cause, then that is different.
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I still think that if the money issue is totally open and honest and trackable... and that we, the forum members, can clearly see that the money paid from the magazine is going directly to a charity in Michaels name....
well... any money that benefits a charity is a wonderful thing. If we can channel money towards those in need... thats what it is all about.
And as far as i am aware.. none of the profits Pearl made were ever given to charity.
i really don't think it is about the money.
Oh, its always about the money where Michael Jackson is concerned. x
The money situation has the potential to totally blow up in our faces. I do not wish to participate in anything that makes a profit in Michaels name. If it all goes to charity. And if that money is openly trackable to the last penny... if it all goes to a good cause, then that is different.
ok can we just say that it is probably not the main issue for most of us here on this particular issue? anybody else want to jump in here?
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@Souza. My only input is to be certain that you check these people out in order to gain a thorough understanding of their agenda.
@All. I don't understand why some are against Souza discussing the hoax within Wonderwall Magazine. We are not an exclusive club that requires special guidelines for inclusion on the forum. We are simply a group of people who believe that MJ is alive. Anyone who is recommended by a current member or who stumbles upon the forum on their own may join. We have already been revealed and exposed ...for better or worse. Consider the number of members who join and NEVER post. They read our threads and form opinions already...in silence. Plus few... if any of us.... have revealed our true identities and actual locations. Our privacy is quite safe. Plus...for all we know there may be people out there (Wonderwall readers) who share our views regarding the hoax. However they may not have an outlet where they can share their opinions or clues. Fresh eyes and input on clues that may have been overlooked should be welcomed. So I respectfully ask.... why is there such fear in allowing our posts to be shared in any discussions with the magazine?
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For whoever is interested, here is the draft for the first article. As you can see in the last part, I would like someone to volunteer to write the next piece. If anyone sees anything in this piece that violates someones copyright, makes us look like nuts or disrespects Michael, let me know.
[center:4ra7e2jq]"You and I were never separate. It's just an illusion wrought by the magical lens of perception."
~Michael Jackson~[/center:4ra7e2jq]
The world stood still on June 25, 2009. Michael Jackson, the King of Pop, had passed away at the age of 50. Never in my life had I witnessed such an outburst of grief. By dying, Michael Jackson had achieved what no one else had achieved up until then; he had united the world. In every city of the world, people from all races and religions joined hands and cried together as one. As much as I knew how loved Michael Jackson was and still is, I was amazed. At that moment I realized how big of an influence he was worldwide. Little did I realize back then, how big of an influence he would become to me and my perception of life.
I remember visiting my parents when the news broke. CNN told us Michael had suffered from cardiac arrest and was taken to the hospital. According to them he was in a coma and it didn't look good. First thing that popped my head was: what if this is a publicity stunt? The London shows were about to start and after all we were dealing with Michael Jackson. Even though I never considered myself a fan, he seemed to me like someone who would be capable of doing something like that, something that hadn't been done yet. A few moments later my father, who had been following the news on the internet, came down and said he had died. He what? I checked my TV screen to see what I had missed, but nothing. According to CNN he was still in a coma. I asked him where he got that information, and he told me there was a tabloid called TMZ.com who had just published an article that stated that Michael had passed away. Although I didn't think that was strange at first, it did become stranger when it took CNN almost an hour to confirm this. Looking back now my feeling was right, since TMZ had posted the article about his passing 6 minutes before the doctors at UCLA even pronounced him dead.
As days went by and the odd feeling just didn't want to leave my system, I decided to take a seat behind my computer and I googled "Michael Jackson is not dead" and to my surprise I found a forum up and running since June 25th that had already around 300 members who clearly had the same strange feeling that I had. There were a lot of topics I didn't understand back then. I didn't know much about Michael Jackson and I had to study his life more before I could even join the conversations, that much I understood. The first time my head spinned was when someone posted a video of the helicopter flight to the coroner with allegedly Michael's body in it. The topic starter said that the body moved and I spent the rest of the afternoon watching that video to determine if my eyes were playing tricks on me but after watching it a hundred times, I was sure I saw it moving too.
If that would have been the only oddity I had seen post June 25, I would probably not be sitting here, writing this piece but from that moment on it was like being on a rollercoaster. More and more strange stories about Michael hit the news and more and more contradictions were found and posted on the forum, even up until this day. For those who took the effort to take a peak behind the screen it became more and more obvious that Michael Jackson's death was indeed a hoax, but why would he do this? Publicity? Money? Or is there more that needs to be taken into consideration?
I don't think I have to remind anyone about the accusations made against Michael. Back in 1993 the civil case, started by Evan Chandler, the father of the boy Michael allegedly inappropriately touched, was settled out of court. Even though it was not Michael himself who settled, but his insurance company, even though Evan Chandler was taped during a phone converstaion that proved that it was extortion, and even though Michael was never charged with anything dispite the millions of tax dollars spent on a criminal investigation, his image was ruined. The media jumped on the bandwagon and Michael has been labeled as a freak who touches little boys ever since. When Michael was on trial in 2005, 2,200 journalists from all over the world followed his every step. They had condemned him already before the trial even started, and they continued their biased reporting throughout the trial. When Michael was acquitted of all charges on June 13, 2005, they went silent. They took off with their tails between their legs and no one even bothered to pay attention to his innocence, with the effect that even though Michael was found not guilty of any wrong doing, the world still thought he was guilty and got away with it. Had they have been good journalists, they would have reported what happened inside the courtroom. Had they done that, the world would have known he has always been innocent, but now only those who will read an unbiased and factual report of the events, like "Michael Jackson Conspiracy" by Aphrodite Jones, will know for sure.
The above is just an example of what kind of influence the media has, and how they can manipulate the minds of the public. For decades Michael has been portrayed by the media as a freak, a child molester and drug addict. And if they do that to him, who says they wouldn't do that to other celebrities? Or events for that matter, like when CNN fabricated the news during the Gulf War?Just type in "CNN fake news Gulf War" to see what I am talking about.
By staging his death and controlling the media like this, Michael will be able to show the world that you shouldn't believe anything that is presented to you in the media. For decades the media controlled Michael and his image, it seems he has taken over and is pulling the strings from behind the curtain. As he said in an interview with Geraldo back in 2005 when Geraldo asked him about the big plan, what he wanted to do: "There are a lot of surprises. Film, I love film. [...] Well, it's not just so much film, but it's innovating it and pioneering it. Taking the medium to a new place. "
Ever since June 25, 2009, it seems like we have been in a reality film to an extend that is hard to comprehend. Shakespeare once said: "All the world's a stage". I think Michael took that literally and uses his influence to teach the media a lesson and make us aware of the problems in this world. He stood for something very important that has been buried underneath the tabloid trash: LOVE. Love for mother earth, love for humanity, love for animals, love for everything that exists. The kind of love that was forced to take a backseat and seem to have been replaced by lust, greed, hunger for money and power and dishonesty.
Our forum is one out of many forums where people share their ideas, their theories and the extremely odd and inconsistent information that has been presented in the media. Not just by the tabloids, but by the so called 'trustworthy' media as well. Even though none of us know exactly what happened and we do not agree with each other on every aspect of the hoax, we all have the same goal in mind, which is finding out the truth, clearing his name and supporting him in whatever he is planning to do. We appreciate it that Wonderwall Magazine is willing to give us a platform outside of the forum where we can share our thoughts and research about the obviously strange and discordant events of June 25th and beyond.
Before dismissing any of the above, please take the following into consideration:
According to the death certificate Michael Joseph Jackson passed away. According to the 2003-2005 court papers his legal name is Michael Joe Jackson. On one's death certificate the legal name must be stated.
No doctor ever made a statement on his death, the one making the statement on June 25 was Michael's brother Jermaine.
Michael hired lots of actors before his death, none of them is allowed to speak to this day, because every one of them had to sign a confidentiality agreement.
At the memorial, Jermaine performed 'Smile' and mixed up some words, without even blinking. Instead of "light up your face with gladness, hide every trace of sadness" he sang "light up your face with sadness, hide every trace of gladness".
Even though Michael won more Grammys in his life than anyone, they failed to mention him in the "In Memoriam" list ... twice!
TMZ reported on his death 6 minutes before he was even declared dead.
The autopsy report is full of inconsistencies and misses some important features of Michael. Besides that an autopsy report shouldn't even be released to the public while there is a criminal investigation going on.
I could go on and on, but I will stop right here and let you think about the idea. Much more information is collected on the forum, from just clues and theories to actual facts and errors that were published about his death. This article has the sole purpose to let you open up your mind about the idea and start questioning the strange circumstances surrounding the alleged death of Michael Jackson.
In the upcoming issues we will explain more in detail why we believe Michael is still alive. I would like to pass the pen to [username] who will bring more light to the oddities surrounding [subject]. Until then, you are most welcome to visit the website and join us in the discussions. And remember: It's all for L.O.V.E.!
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I'll volunteer to write the next one. PM me with the deadline, word count blah blah blah.
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I'll volunteer to write the next one. PM me with the deadline, word count blah blah blah.
I don't know the deadline for the second article yet, but I will let you know as soon as I know. What subject would you like to cover?
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Souza....that was VERY well done. Just about perfect. I think you handled all of our fears very well. Great article and once again I ask you, are you a writer?
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Souza....that was VERY well done. Just about perfect. I think you handled all of our fears very well. Great article and once again I ask you, are you a writer?
No I am not. I hope some people will have the balls to say they were wrong about me yet again, but I doubt it.
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Souza, I think that's a very well-written article. I like that you started off with your personal experiences of June 25th, 2009 - it makes it very relatable. And I think a lot of non-believers who may read it would remember themselves questioning if it was a publicity stunt, if it was even real. But the media pounded it in to them so they just accepted his "death" as truth. I had very similar experiences, I think I may have even googled those exact same words, or "Michael Jackson is still alive" because all the stories that came out in those early days all conflicted each other and none of it made any real sense. And I don't think the deliberate clues that Michael left can be copyrighted by anybody, they're there for all to see if they choose to open their eyes and minds to them.
And I'm glad you mentioned how a lot of people were out to get Michael and the media lies because vicious, scandalous stories sell better than the truth. People must learn to understand the importance of thinking for themselves and to not condemn someone based on something they know nothing about.
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MJs relationship with the media... past and present. There will be an ending reference and teaser to "wagging the dog".
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MJs relationship with the media... past and present. There will be an ending reference and teaser to "wagging the dog".
I like the subject! I think around 1,500 words will do, same length as mine. They can take it or leave it! It is simply impossible to explain in less words.
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Souza...do you know how we members can get the magazine from the start of your articles so we don't miss any??
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Souza...do you know how we members can get the magazine from the start of your articles so we don't miss any??
Quoted form the last email I received from him:
I can promise you the article will not be edited or changed. Only grammar and spelling will be checked. I completely understand and will let you see the article before we go to print. We are in the process of getting high end advertisers like Jack Daniels, Cricket and other clothing ads, so we are only in record stores, venues and some news stands around the country. Bands also take them on tour with with them and sell some and give some away.
I do want to receive a copy myself though, or at least a digital one to see if it's really printed as sent.
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Right...that, and whoever sent you the email originally, had a few misspellings themselves ..lol :D So hopefully they don't do that to your article...Also, the cover of the magazine says WonderWall, yet the editor wrote Wonderwall...which is weird being it's his magazine...
I'm not downing this, things like that JUMP out to me. I should be a proof reader.
I thought it looked like that type of magazine you'd get in a music store. Hopefully we can subscribe or get it in big bookstores or local music stores.
Exciting isn't it?
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I just want to help Michael out any way I can. I really can relate to him.
That is what the guy from the magazine said at the end of his email. To me what he is saying is after he has already read the forum he wants to help MICHAEL in any way. Just like we do, right?
This next part might not come across to friendly but I am feeling an urge to express a few thoughts. First I am amazed to see such flip flop of loyalty. I am amazed at how quickly some people are to stab someone in the back after over a year of investigating together. Actually I am not surprised after all because it happened to me as well. I was stabbed real hard in the back.
What I am amazed at is WTF happened to keeping the FAITH no matter what?
How did Souza become #1 public enemy? How did TS go from being on the good side to now again on the bad side. This baffles me because the people who are flip flopping were the same ones who were SO SURE before about TS, who he really is, and whom he speaks for.
I am NOT referring to Mo. As for her I feel as though she ended up having a feeling of something like buyers remorse. She has every right to leave the forum and distant herself.
What I am trippin on is longtime members expressing so much anger and blaming Souza for all the bad shit that happened on the forum. Members who are distanting themselves as far away as possible from the board (yet still come here to post negative remarks).
I am trippin on the members who are worried about theories being published in a magazine in a section about conspiracies and THEORIES like NWO, Illuminati, corrupt shit happening in our governments, God, and whatever else.
I am trippin on the fact that some members forget that this forum is open to public eyes right now. All our thoughts, words, and theories are here for the world to see; if the world thinks we are crazy then they do so now. The world is crazy itself.
Putting articles in a magazine will not start the world to think we are nuts. What trips me out is how many of you who are quick to step backwards and say I am not down for this project. I am not supporting you Souza. When times get tough only those who meant what they said from the get go will be left standing strong right by Michael's side and Souza's. Soldiers do not step backwards and get fearful they step up to the plate and do whatever it takes.
The hypocrisy is getting to me and I said from the beginning of this post I wasn't gonna be nice so if your offended by my opinion sorry I warned ya.
Peace
[youtube:1pniq2p6]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwOZjncI5qw[/youtube:1pniq2p6]
Whatever Happens Don't let go of his hand!
I agree with you Im_convincedmjalive. A strong post you got there! Yet, I must add that the discussion on this thread is interesting. I support Souza's plans and it is a great opportunity to bring the hoax research to a higher level of awareness, specially the hoax motives. Of course we need to know more about this project and how it's gonna be implemented.
FAITH
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Souza....that was VERY well done. Just about perfect. I think you handled all of our fears very well. Great article and once again I ask you, are you a writer?
No I am not. I hope some people will have the balls to say they were wrong about me yet again, but I doubt it.
I for one was a little skeptical, but what you wrote is amazing. You did not point any fingers.
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Souza....that was VERY well done. Just about perfect. I think you handled all of our fears very well. Great article and once again I ask you, are you a writer?
No I am not. I hope some people will have the balls to say they were wrong about me yet again, but I doubt it.
I for one was a little skeptical, but what you wrote is amazing. You did not point any fingers.
Agree. Nice job Souza.
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Souza....that was VERY well done. Just about perfect. I think you handled all of our fears very well. Great article and once again I ask you, are you a writer?
No I am not. I hope some people will have the balls to say they were wrong about me yet again, but I doubt it.
I for one was a little skeptical, but what you wrote is amazing. You did not point any fingers.
Skeptical is good. I was talking about people who judged something they hadn't even seen yet. Don't feel addressed.
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Souza....that was VERY well done. Just about perfect. I think you handled all of our fears very well. Great article and once again I ask you, are you a writer?
No I am not. I hope some people will have the balls to say they were wrong about me yet again, but I doubt it.
I for one was a little skeptical, but what you wrote is amazing. You did not point any fingers.
Skeptical is good. I was talking about people who judged something they hadn't even seen yet. Don't feel addressed.
I don't feel addressed no worries. Good job. Blessings.
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I have a question? I know our little "forum" is not a secret, however I thought the main point to this was to really try to find the truth of what happened to Michael. So my question is, why is it so important that more people jump on our bandwagon. It just doesn't make sense to me to try and convince other people by exposing what we have uncovered. Who cares? For what purpose? We want to know if Michael is ok, don't we? or do we care how many people we can convert? People are free to find us, why do we need to advertize in the same media that Michael hated. And lets just imagine for just one moment that Michael doesn't want to be found, what will this do to him? harms way? Could be.......
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I have a question? I know our little "forum" is not a secret, however I thought the main point to this was to really try to find the truth of what happened to Michael. So my question is, why is it so important that more people jump on our bandwagon. It just doesn't make sense to me to try and convince other people by exposing what we have uncovered. Who cares? For what purpose? We want to know if Michael is ok, don't we? or do we care how many people we can convert? People are free to find us, why do we need to advertize in the same media that Michael hated. And lets just imagine for just one moment that Michael doesn't want to be found, what will this do to him? harms way? Could be.......
I have had this discussion with you before and you will never believe anything I say, so there is really no point in asking.
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... Attached are some unedited samples of Issue 1.p If there are mistakes I appologize, they will be fixed. I read all the material on your site and was blown away and completely shocked. I would love to provide you and your team of writers with a platform in Wonderwall Magazine where we will publish in sections, the truth behind the "The Jackson Consiracy". We go to print every other month and can continue the story each month and even have a permanent column specifically for Michael called "The Jackson Files" that follows the story and any new information involved with his life and current whereabouts will be updated each issue. ... If it is ok with you, we can layout and bring life to the amazing writing already published on your site, give full credit to the writer and post it on our site with your link attached. (wonderwallmagazine.com) You also can write new material as the story progresses. ...
They say they "will publish ... the truth behind 'The Jackson Consiracy' " using material from the forum that already exists. "... bring life to the amazing writing already published on your site ... " ... "and post it on our site with your link attached. (wonderwallmagazine.com) ...". ... "You also can write new material as the story progresses ... "
I can promise you the article will not be edited or changed. Only grammar and spelling will be checked. I completely understand and will let you see the article before we go to print. We are in the process of getting high end advertisers like Jack Daniels, Cricket and other clothing ads.
If I try to understand the email, I get the following. It is just my personal opinion and impression and is not intended to criticize any well-meant writing in any way:
- the editor's team is not yet a large one in numbers, either he is the only writer or has a small team of writers, growing in numbers (the magazine may not get a lot of publicity then if only read by a few, which is not negative, just a statement. There is a lot of competition and you need something special to attract readers attention)
- in the beginning only existing forum members' contributions will be used without being edited or changed, only grammar and spelling will be checked (the new magazine needs articles to get more volume and to attract more sponsors who pay for ads; the editor may not recogognize members' mistakes? The editor is not an American writer, but from abroad?)
- later on new articles can be written, but not for a start (he is not sure yet if people will write new articles for him and his magazine)
- the email-writer is going to publish them in the magazine called wonderwallmagazine.com, not WonderWall ... (there may be no difference, but one member here made us aware of the different spelling)
- he puts a lot of emphasis on getting money for ads from sponsors who can pay well (I know that printing and publishing a magazine costs much money, but I am a little surprised to read it from the start. I wonder what the main aim is: to find out the truth about a conspiracy or to make money, or to make money to be able to make the truth more public to a wider audience or a mixture of it?) This forum doesn't have any ads, whereas a magazine has to sell to be able to exist. If you have ads and sponsors, they can have influence on what you write or they choose other magazines. You may lose your independence.
- News of Michael Jackson's life and his current whereabouts will be published and updated in each issue. What does that mean? Would Michael want this? Gossip about his life? It is not quite clear what news shall be included. Tabloid style or serious investigation? If he should still be in danger, would an update of his current whereabouts not endanger his life?
There remain some questions and it's a difference to voice one's opinion on a forum site or in a magazine. But as members' opinions are not taken into consideration when it comes to a final decision it doesn't really matter what some members' concerns are. The idea itself sounds good if the other side is serious and only articles appear which respect the vulnerability of Michael's eventual precarious situation, and if only those write there who chose to do so. They are legally responsible for their texts in a magazine. I personally would prefer if they wrote as individuals (like bloggers expressing opinions) and not as forum members referring back to a forum. The idea of taking money from a magazine for writing articles (even if intended for charity) or providing articles is not transparent enough, I think.
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Souza....as I said before, you don't know me personally, but everytime I post something, or ask a question, you seem to want to start something with me. What is the problem? And I was not directing that question to you, but you always seem to take it personally. I am a 62 year old woman, and do not appreciate your sarcasium everytime I post something. Yea, I know, your answer to that is LEAVE, just like it is for everyone that you don't agree with. Very Sad.
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... Attached are some unedited samples of Issue 1.p If there are mistakes I appologize, they will be fixed. I read all the material on your site and was blown away and completely shocked. I would love to provide you and your team of writers with a platform in Wonderwall Magazine where we will publish in sections, the truth behind the "The Jackson Consiracy". We go to print every other month and can continue the story each month and even have a permanent column specifically for Michael called "The Jackson Files" that follows the story and any new information involved with his life and current whereabouts will be updated each issue. ... If it is ok with you, we can layout and bring life to the amazing writing already published on your site, give full credit to the writer and post it on our site with your link attached. (wonderwallmagazine.com) You also can write new material as the story progresses. ...
They say they "will publish ... the truth behind 'The Jackson Consiracy' " using material from the forum that already exists. "... bring life to the amazing writing already published on your site ... " ... "and post it on our site with your link attached. (wonderwallmagazine.com) ...". ... "You also can write new material as the story progresses ... "
I can promise you the article will not be edited or changed. Only grammar and spelling will be checked. I completely understand and will let you see the article before we go to print. We are in the process of getting high end advertisers like Jack Daniels, Cricket and other clothing ads.
If I try to understand the email, I get the following. It is just my personal opinion and impression and is not intended to criticize any well-meant writing in any way:
- the editor's team is not yet a large one in numbers, either he is the only writer or has a small team of writers, growing in numbers (the magazine may not get a lot of publicity then if only read by a few, which is not negative, just a statement. There is a lot of competition and you need something special to attract readers attention)
- in the beginning only existing forum members' contributions will be used without being edited or changed, only grammar and spelling will be checked (the new magazine needs articles to get more volume and to attract more sponsors who pay for ads; the editor may not recogognize members' mistakes? The editor is not an American writer, but from abroad?)
- later on new articles can be written, but not for a start (he is not sure yet if people will write new articles for him and his magazine)
- the email-writer is going to publish them in the magazine called wonderwallmagazine.com, not WonderWall ... (there may be no difference, but one member here made us aware of the different spelling)
- he puts a lot of emphasis on getting money for ads from sponsors who can pay well (I know that printing and publishing a magazine costs much money, but I am a little surprised to read it from the start. I wonder what the main aim is: to find out the truth about a conspiracy or to make money, or to make money to be able to make the truth more public to a wider audience or a mixture of it?) This forum doesn't have any ads, whereas a magazine has to sell to be able to exist. If you have ads and sponsors, they can have influence on what you write or they choose other magazines. You may lose your independence.
- News of Michael Jackson's life and his current whereabouts will be published and updated in each issue. What does that mean? Would Michael want this? Gossip about his life? It is not quite clear what news shall be included. Tabloid style or serious investigation? If he should still be in danger, would an update of his current whereabouts not endanger his life?
There remain some questions and it's a difference to voice one's opinion on a forum site or in a magazine. But as members' opinions are not taken into consideration when it comes to a final decision it doesn't really matter what some members' concerns are. The idea itself sounds good if the other side is serious and only articles appear which respect the vulnerability of Michael's eventual precarious situation, and if only those write there who chose to do so. They are legally responsible for their texts in a magazine. I personally would prefer if they wrote as individuals (like bloggers expressing opinions) and not as forum members referring back to a forum. The idea of taking money from a magazine for writing articles (even if intended for charity) or providing articles is not transparent enough, I think.
:lol: joke's on him if thinks we know where michael is.
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@onemoretime: There is more email correspondence between me and the editor and I made it clear to him that I only agree if he publishes what is sent to him and that if he won't and publish crap like the Sun did, concequences will follow. We don't know Michael's whereabouts and even if we do, we wouldn't share it. I for one wouldn't even post it on here if I would find out in any way, since everything here is public as well so there is no danger in that.
About the money he offers: I don't want any money at all, but if he wants to pay, I rather have him donate it to a charity we choose. When I look at what they want in print, I understand he needs sponsors from the start. Because of what I do for a living, I know how expensive printing something like this is, most likely when you are only starting and start with low quantities, so I don't see anything strange in there. He can not copy information from this website without permission, worst case scenario he will twist my words and make me look like a looney bin. I don't mind, as long as people will start questioning. But I have no reason to believe he will when I look at the drafts he sent me.
Like someone mentioned before: anyone can read the info on here and if they want to do an article on it, they can do so anyway. This way we at least can control what will be posted. The draft I posted contains nothing special and can be seen as a try-out. If they screw up, no more articles will be sent. If they are honest, we might have a good platform to spread the word.
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:lol: joke's on him if thinks we know where michael is.
You are so right. If nobody of this community and all the other existing ones haven't yet found out, how shall an editor of a newly founded magazine be able to update his 'current whereabouts' in each issue.
His hiding place (wherever it is) is well protected and here at least nobody can help out with the latest sightings. No chance ;)
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It's funny how people are ready to attack you for this, yet they don't attack some believers when they go on TV and talk about MJ being alive, I know a member on here and on .net who Ive seen on TV many times talking about MJ being alive, giving her theories etc... yet no one seems to attack her ( why? not harmful to MJ?),... I won't give any username... Im just surprised at how SOME people actually reject this only because they think it is a competition of some sort...
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Souza the draft for the article is great. Awesome job. Now to remove the knives from your back.
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In the first place Michael may not be standing by anyone's side when all is said and done. He may be burned and put in an urn or buried in a tomb for all anyone knows. Not one of us KNOWS he is dead or alive. Gut feelings and instincts are not truth, are not Michael in the flesh. Sure we may lean more toward believing or not believing, whatever we "feel" is the correct assumption but anyone here or anywhere else in the fandom that says they KNOW Michael is dead or alive is either guessing, blowing smoke up their own arse or they have an inside line directly to the man himself. There are wolves in all of our camps but it's up to us as individuals to decide are they really sheep or are they hounds of hell. Think long and hard where your hearts really are. Think long also on who you want to love and protect at all costs!!!!!!!
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Souza, I think your article is very well written and informative. I support going ahead and joining forces with this magazine. We need to reach more people and open their minds to all the inconsistencies. Thank you for all the work you put into this forum.
Peace,
Daniela
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Im_convinced said what needed to be said. Totally agreed.
Souza, no matter where I stand on an issue, I will never doubt your character or your judgment and I will always give you the benefit of any doubt. These people... :?
Let's go public.
Ps. You have permission to use anything I write or think or say anywhere on the internet for the purpose of the death hoax. Take it, use it, spread it. In addition, tell me if I can help.
SD: what are you thinking girl?
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@Souza: Reading your draft and your answer made me aware of your seriousness and your goodwill to get the message out. I trust you in making the right decision, as we don't have all the knowledge and background infomation needed for a responsible way of handling specific measures. And even if you should fail, you are willing and courageous enough to admit a mistake. Sometimes we know more when a situation has been tested, one way or the other. We can't predict the future.
I feel you would protect Michael with all your heart and would never betray him by letting the wrong people know where his hiding place is if you found out. No member here of this forum would either and if you had a suspicion you would find ways to stop them from spreading it.
Being someone who starts printing a new magazine might be an advantage, because the person(s) doing it could still be passionate in what they are doing. We don't know his agenda yet and as "truth-searchers" are critical and ready to fight against any media trying to take advantage of Michael for their own good.
You are as well and I am sure you are able to find out very quickly if the offered platform is the wrong or right one or if it has to be rejected for good. I am glad to see you are listening to what is expressed in this thread and not only here. Your energy is amazing, and nothing is to be taken for granted, but as humans we have to protect our health from time to time in order not to get too exhausted. So please take good care of yourself and try to get more sleep or rest. You are needed and without you and your guidance it is not the same. The MJKITForum -Intermezzo wasn't fun. The hoax has changed and influenced our lives in many ways, all of us, who have observed the inconsistencies from a very early stage. We must never forget what has led us to this place. We all share a common goal and are driven by a force within. It is difficult to give it a proper suitable name. Feeling for justice, longing for truth. I don't really know myself what it is. What I know and remember is the time without any forum: deep sadness about a loss, so strong and overwhelming. You could ask yourself, maybe you did already, why out of all people, you were chosen to be what you are now: the administrator of a forum, which gave many lost members a 'home' so to speak in a time of grief to be able to cope and gradually to get stronger. A non-believer cannot imagine the inner rollercoaster state of mind we have been in and no end in sight.
We don't know what has happened, where he is, what he would like or not, if he can decide himself or not, not what only the family says, but he himself, that's the problem for me.
To be careful who to trust doesn't harm and if we all take a close look at things to come we sometimes learn from others who express concerns.
The unknown monster is about to embark
from a far corner, out of the dark
If I may quote your signature, only meant in general from my point of view, to be alert in the real-life thriller of the MJ-hoax, we never know what is next to surprise us. Positive, I hope. But believing and hoping is not necessarily knowing, no proof at all. Let's keep the faith!
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For whoever is interested, here is the draft for the first article. As you can see in the last part, I would like someone to volunteer to write the next piece. If anyone sees anything in this piece that violates someones copyright, makes us look like nuts or disrespects Michael, let me know.
[center:1jh0nzj0]"You and I were never separate. It's just an illusion wrought by the magical lens of perception."
~Michael Jackson~[/center:1jh0nzj0]
The world stood still on June 25, 2009. Michael Jackson, the King of Pop, had passed away at the age of 50. Never in my life had I witnessed such an outburst of grief. By dying, Michael Jackson had achieved what no one else had achieved up until then; he had united the world. In every city of the world, people from all races and religions joined hands and cried together as one. As much as I knew how loved Michael Jackson was and still is, I was amazed. At that moment I realized how big of an influence he was worldwide. Little did I realize back then, how big of an influence he would become to me and my perception of life.
I remember visiting my parents when the news broke. CNN told us Michael had suffered from cardiac arrest and was taken to the hospital. According to them he was in a coma and it didn't look good. First thing that popped my head was: what if this is a publicity stunt? The London shows were about to start and after all we were dealing with Michael Jackson. Even though I never considered myself a fan, he seemed to me like someone who would be capable of doing something like that, something that hadn't been done yet. A few moments later my father, who had been following the news on the internet, came down and said he had died. He what? I checked my TV screen to see what I had missed, but nothing. According to CNN he was still in a coma. I asked him where he got that information, and he told me there was a tabloid called TMZ.com who had just published an article that stated that Michael had passed away. Although I didn't think that was strange at first, it did become stranger when it took CNN almost an hour to confirm this. Looking back now my feeling was right, since TMZ had posted the article about his passing 6 minutes before the doctors at UCLA even pronounced him dead.
As days went by and the odd feeling just didn't want to leave my system, I decided to take a seat behind my computer and I googled "Michael Jackson is not dead" and to my surprise I found a forum up and running since June 25th that had already around 300 members who clearly had the same strange feeling that I had. There were a lot of topics I didn't understand back then. I didn't know much about Michael Jackson and I had to study his life more before I could even join the conversations, that much I understood. The first time my head spinned was when someone posted a video of the helicopter flight to the coroner with allegedly Michael's body in it. The topic starter said that the body moved and I spent the rest of the afternoon watching that video to determine if my eyes were playing tricks on me but after watching it a hundred times, I was sure I saw it moving too.
If that would have been the only oddity I had seen post June 25, I would probably not be sitting here, writing this piece but from that moment on it was like being on a rollercoaster. More and more strange stories about Michael hit the news and more and more contradictions were found and posted on the forum, even up until this day. For those who took the effort to take a peak behind the screen it became more and more obvious that Michael Jackson's death was indeed a hoax, but why would he do this? Publicity? Money? Or is there more that needs to be taken into consideration?
I don't think I have to remind anyone about the accusations made against Michael. Back in 1993 the civil case, started by Evan Chandler, the father of the boy Michael allegedly inappropriately touched, was settled out of court. Even though it was not Michael himself who settled, but his insurance company, even though Evan Chandler was taped during a phone converstaion that proved that it was extortion, and even though Michael was never charged with anything dispite the millions of tax dollars spent on a criminal investigation, his image was ruined. The media jumped on the bandwagon and Michael has been labeled as a freak who touches little boys ever since. When Michael was on trial in 2005, 2,200 journalists from all over the world followed his every step. They had condemned him already before the trial even started, and they continued their biased reporting throughout the trial. When Michael was acquitted of all charges on June 13, 2005, they went silent. They took off with their tails between their legs and no one even bothered to pay attention to his innocence, with the effect that even though Michael was found not guilty of any wrong doing, the world still thought he was guilty and got away with it. Had they have been good journalists, they would have reported what happened inside the courtroom. Had they done that, the world would have known he has always been innocent, but now only those who will read an unbiased and factual report of the events, like "Michael Jackson Conspiracy" by Aphrodite Jones, will know for sure.
The above is just an example of what kind of influence the media has, and how they can manipulate the minds of the public. For decades Michael has been portrayed by the media as a freak, a child molester and drug addict. And if they do that to him, who says they wouldn't do that to other celebrities? Or events for that matter, like when CNN fabricated the news during the Gulf War?Just type in "CNN fake news Gulf War" to see what I am talking about.
By staging his death and controlling the media like this, Michael will be able to show the world that you shouldn't believe anything that is presented to you in the media. For decades the media controlled Michael and his image, it seems he has taken over and is pulling the strings from behind the curtain. As he said in an interview with Geraldo back in 2005 when Geraldo asked him about the big plan, what he wanted to do: "There are a lot of surprises. Film, I love film. [...] Well, it's not just so much film, but it's innovating it and pioneering it. Taking the medium to a new place. "
Ever since June 25, 2009, it seems like we have been in a reality film to an extend that is hard to comprehend. Shakespeare once said: "All the world's a stage". I think Michael took that literally and uses his influence to teach the media a lesson and make us aware of the problems in this world. He stood for something very important that has been buried underneath the tabloid trash: LOVE. Love for mother earth, love for humanity, love for animals, love for everything that exists. The kind of love that was forced to take a backseat and seem to have been replaced by lust, greed, hunger for money and power and dishonesty.
Our forum is one out of many forums where people share their ideas, their theories and the extremely odd and inconsistent information that has been presented in the media. Not just by the tabloids, but by the so called 'trustworthy' media as well. Even though none of us know exactly what happened and we do not agree with each other on every aspect of the hoax, we all have the same goal in mind, which is finding out the truth, clearing his name and supporting him in whatever he is planning to do. We appreciate it that Wonderwall Magazine is willing to give us a platform outside of the forum where we can share our thoughts and research about the obviously strange and discordant events of June 25th and beyond.
Before dismissing any of the above, please take the following into consideration:
According to the death certificate Michael Joseph Jackson passed away. According to the 2003-2005 court papers his legal name is Michael Joe Jackson. On one's death certificate the legal name must be stated.
No doctor ever made a statement on his death, the one making the statement on June 25 was Michael's brother Jermaine.
Michael hired lots of actors before his death, none of them is allowed to speak to this day, because every one of them had to sign a confidentiality agreement.
At the memorial, Jermaine performed 'Smile' and mixed up some words, without even blinking. Instead of "light up your face with gladness, hide every trace of sadness" he sang "light up your face with sadness, hide every trace of gladness".
Even though Michael won more Grammys in his life than anyone, they failed to mention him in the "In Memoriam" list ... twice!
TMZ reported on his death 6 minutes before he was even declared dead.
The autopsy report is full of inconsistencies and misses some important features of Michael. Besides that an autopsy report shouldn't even be released to the public while there is a criminal investigation going on.
I could go on and on, but I will stop right here and let you think about the idea. Much more information is collected on the forum, from just clues and theories to actual facts and errors that were published about his death. This article has the sole purpose to let you open up your mind about the idea and start questioning the strange circumstances surrounding the alleged death of Michael Jackson.
In the upcoming issues we will explain more in detail why we believe Michael is still alive. I would like to pass the pen to [username] who will bring more light to the oddities surrounding [subject]. Until then, you are most welcome to visit the website and join us in the discussions. And remember: It's all for L.O.V.E.!
Hey Souza!
While I am still on the fence about all this, and sad to read the threads here.....I would like to lend my help with some minor typo things I see in your well written article.......don't mean to offend etc....but, I did catch a few things you may want to take a look at (totally your call). I put them in bold print above...here is the run-down for you to see:
spinned- should be spun
rollercoaster- should be roller-coaster or
roller coaster
converstaion- should be conversation
dispite- should be despite
extend- should be extent
A couple of grammar/punctuation things:
"we appreciate it that"-perhaps leave out "it" (not really needed in the sentence)
"besides that"- needs a comma after that "besides that," or just "besides,"
"is" - should be, "are" ...none of them are allowed....
Please, please, please know I am not nit-picking or trying to offend etc.....I just have a background in writing and want you to look professional. Wonderwall had a typo or two as well....makes me wonder about them. I would be very careful mentioning Aphrodite Jones or CNN. Especially, mentioning CNN....you do not want them breathing down your neck.
Anyways....it's all very interesting. I hope it pans out to have been a good thing. I guess we will only know in hindsight!
Blessings to you and everyone here on forum.....I pray this will not come between members. I am afraid, however, it already has :( I will keep you all in my thoughts and prayers for this journey.
Blessings Always!
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WonderWall editor wrote:
I would love to provide you and your team of writers with a platform in Wonderwall Magazine where we will publish in sections, the truth behind the "The Jackson Consiracy"......Only grammar and spelling will be checked.
Hee hee! I hope this guy isn't the one checking the grammer. :lol:
Souza, your...our article is wonderful. I could relate so much to the story you shared, as I am sure others here do as well. Maybe even those reading the article once it gets publish would too. I don't see how anyone here could be opposed to submitting an article such as the one you have written. But, I could be wrong.
Im_convincedmjalive wrote:
I am trippin on the members who are worried about theories being published in a magazine in a section about conspiracies and THEORIES like NWO, Illuminati, corrupt shit happening in our governments, God, and whatever else.
It is one thing to say that Michael felt threatened and even told people, including his siblings, that there were people out to kill him. That is undisputed facts. But, if you say the words NWO, Illuminati, etc., most people wouldn't know who the heck you were even talking about and if you were to try to explain who they are, they may say, "Ooookaaay," as they slowly back out of the room. So, stop trippin on me...please.
It is very sad to read negative posts about Souza or about other members. We are supposed to be in this thing together. I believe Michael would want it that way. Instead, the in-fighing, negativity, distrust and rude comments certainly wouldn't do much to speed up my return. In fact, it might keep me away. I can see Micahel saying right now, "if I can't get my own fan base to L.O.V.E. each other, how can I get the whole world to care about the planet and each other." IMHO.... :? :(
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Ps. Souza, in your "before you disregard, please consider these items," portion at the end, what do you think about including a mention about how the patient in the "last photo of Michael Jackson" appears to be MJ from 1987, not at all how he appeared in TII and certainly nothing like the EMT's description of a frail, old, bald, hospice patient"? I think this is another compelling fact that gets people's attention and would generate further curiosity. I know you can't list everything but I think it's one of the biggest contradictions.
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I think the draft is very well noted down. Let's all hope is for the best and help in any way we can. Like Michael said once:
"Together, we can make a change in the world. Together we can help stop racism. Together we can help stop prejudice. We can help the world live without fear. It is our only hope...and without hope we are lost."
;)
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I just went and read what Serenity wrote at .net and I'm horrified. I am seriously shocked at the copying and pasting all of Souza's posts over there so they could urge her on like an angry mob in the background.
Serenity you should be ashamed of yourself!
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I knew with 6 pages something controversial was happening! Being more of a peacemaker at heart, I hope that this decision/opportunity will not tear this forum apart yet again. I respect both of you Souza and SD very much, and I hope and pray this can all be worked out in harmony. We all have different personalities, ways of thinking about things or reacting. Souza, I thought your write-up was very good, especially as it shared your personal experience with discovering a possible death hoax, and also that you emphasized that the accusations against Michael were false. Those are the best places to start to bridge the gap for the public. I'm glad you are proceeding with great caution having been burned in the past with magazines, and that the money will be going to charity. It's good that all this is discussed freely before the first writing goes out to them.
I do think that if Michael really wanted more people believing in the hoax, it would be a simple matter of throwing out a few crumbs of stronger evidence that are undeniable. At this point most "evidence" can be taken several ways. He has deliberately designed this hoax to be air-tight. On the other hand, maybe he is putting the responsibility of spreading the faith on the backs of his "army". IDK Perhaps you could tweet to TR or Jermaine to get their reaction.
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Souza, your draft is amazing and you hit on some of the most important facts that first made
us all wake up and take notice!
I think it flows very well and is easy to comprehend. WELL DONE!
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For whoever is interested, here is the draft for the first article. As you can see in the last part, I would like someone to volunteer to write the next piece. If anyone sees anything in this piece that violates someones copyright, makes us look like nuts or disrespects Michael, let me know.
[center:1yh86i4l]"You and I were never separate. It's just an illusion wrought by the magical lens of perception."
~Michael Jackson~[/center:1yh86i4l]
The world stood still on June 25, 2009. Michael Jackson, the King of Pop, had passed away at the age of 50. Never in my life had I witnessed such an outburst of grief. By dying, Michael Jackson had achieved what no one else had achieved up until then; he had united the world. In every city of the world, people from all races and religions joined hands and cried together as one. As much as I knew how loved Michael Jackson was and still is, I was amazed. At that moment I realized how big of an influence he was worldwide. Little did I realize back then, how big of an influence he would become to me and my perception of life.
I remember visiting my parents when the news broke. CNN told us Michael had suffered from cardiac arrest and was taken to the hospital. According to them he was in a coma and it didn't look good. First thing that popped my head was: what if this is a publicity stunt? The London shows were about to start and after all we were dealing with Michael Jackson. Even though I never considered myself a fan, he seemed to me like someone who would be capable of doing something like that, something that hadn't been done yet. A few moments later my father, who had been following the news on the internet, came down and said he had died. He what? I checked my TV screen to see what I had missed, but nothing. According to CNN he was still in a coma. I asked him where he got that information, and he told me there was a tabloid called TMZ.com who had just published an article that stated that Michael had passed away. Although I didn't think that was strange at first, it did become stranger when it took CNN almost an hour to confirm this. Looking back now my feeling was right, since TMZ had posted the article about his passing 6 minutes before the doctors at UCLA even pronounced him dead.
As days went by and the odd feeling just didn't want to leave my system, I decided to take a seat behind my computer and I googled "Michael Jackson is not dead" and to my surprise I found a forum up and running since June 25th that had already around 300 members who clearly had the same strange feeling that I had. There were a lot of topics I didn't understand back then. I didn't know much about Michael Jackson and I had to study his life more before I could even join the conversations, that much I understood. The first time my head spinned was when someone posted a video of the helicopter flight to the coroner with allegedly Michael's body in it. The topic starter said that the body moved and I spent the rest of the afternoon watching that video to determine if my eyes were playing tricks on me but after watching it a hundred times, I was sure I saw it moving too.
If that would have been the only oddity I had seen post June 25, I would probably not be sitting here, writing this piece but from that moment on it was like being on a rollercoaster. More and more strange stories about Michael hit the news and more and more contradictions were found and posted on the forum, even up until this day. For those who took the effort to take a peak behind the screen it became more and more obvious that Michael Jackson's death was indeed a hoax, but why would he do this? Publicity? Money? Or is there more that needs to be taken into consideration?
I don't think I have to remind anyone about the accusations made against Michael. Back in 1993 the civil case, started by Evan Chandler, the father of the boy Michael allegedly inappropriately touched, was settled out of court. Even though it was not Michael himself who settled, but his insurance company, even though Evan Chandler was taped during a phone converstaion that proved that it was extortion, and even though Michael was never charged with anything dispite the millions of tax dollars spent on a criminal investigation, his image was ruined. The media jumped on the bandwagon and Michael has been labeled as a freak who touches little boys ever since. When Michael was on trial in 2005, 2,200 journalists from all over the world followed his every step. They had condemned him already before the trial even started, and they continued their biased reporting throughout the trial. When Michael was acquitted of all charges on June 13, 2005, they went silent. They took off with their tails between their legs and no one even bothered to pay attention to his innocence, with the effect that even though Michael was found not guilty of any wrong doing, the world still thought he was guilty and got away with it. Had they have been good journalists, they would have reported what happened inside the courtroom. Had they done that, the world would have known he has always been innocent, but now only those who will read an unbiased and factual report of the events, like "Michael Jackson Conspiracy" by Aphrodite Jones, will know for sure.
The above is just an example of what kind of influence the media has, and how they can manipulate the minds of the public. For decades Michael has been portrayed by the media as a freak, a child molester and drug addict. And if they do that to him, who says they wouldn't do that to other celebrities? Or events for that matter, like when CNN fabricated the news during the Gulf War?Just type in "CNN fake news Gulf War" to see what I am talking about.
By staging his death and controlling the media like this, Michael will be able to show the world that you shouldn't believe anything that is presented to you in the media. For decades the media controlled Michael and his image, it seems he has taken over and is pulling the strings from behind the curtain. As he said in an interview with Geraldo back in 2005 when Geraldo asked him about the big plan, what he wanted to do: "There are a lot of surprises. Film, I love film. [...] Well, it's not just so much film, but it's innovating it and pioneering it. Taking the medium to a new place. "
Ever since June 25, 2009, it seems like we have been in a reality film to an extend that is hard to comprehend. Shakespeare once said: "All the world's a stage". I think Michael took that literally and uses his influence to teach the media a lesson and make us aware of the problems in this world. He stood for something very important that has been buried underneath the tabloid trash: LOVE. Love for mother earth, love for humanity, love for animals, love for everything that exists. The kind of love that was forced to take a backseat and seem to have been replaced by lust, greed, hunger for money and power and dishonesty.
Our forum is one out of many forums where people share their ideas, their theories and the extremely odd and inconsistent information that has been presented in the media. Not just by the tabloids, but by the so called 'trustworthy' media as well. Even though none of us know exactly what happened and we do not agree with each other on every aspect of the hoax, we all have the same goal in mind, which is finding out the truth, clearing his name and supporting him in whatever he is planning to do. We appreciate it that Wonderwall Magazine is willing to give us a platform outside of the forum where we can share our thoughts and research about the obviously strange and discordant events of June 25th and beyond.
Before dismissing any of the above, please take the following into consideration:
According to the death certificate Michael Joseph Jackson passed away. According to the 2003-2005 court papers his legal name is Michael Joe Jackson. On one's death certificate the legal name must be stated.
No doctor ever made a statement on his death, the one making the statement on June 25 was Michael's brother Jermaine.
Michael hired lots of actors before his death, none of them is allowed to speak to this day, because every one of them had to sign a confidentiality agreement.
At the memorial, Jermaine performed 'Smile' and mixed up some words, without even blinking. Instead of "light up your face with gladness, hide every trace of sadness" he sang "light up your face with sadness, hide every trace of gladness".
Even though Michael won more Grammys in his life than anyone, they failed to mention him in the "In Memoriam" list ... twice!
TMZ reported on his death 6 minutes before he was even declared dead.
The autopsy report is full of inconsistencies and misses some important features of Michael. Besides that an autopsy report shouldn't even be released to the public while there is a criminal investigation going on.
I could go on and on, but I will stop right here and let you think about the idea. Much more information is collected on the forum, from just clues and theories to actual facts and errors that were published about his death. This article has the sole purpose to let you open up your mind about the idea and start questioning the strange circumstances surrounding the alleged death of Michael Jackson.
In the upcoming issues we will explain more in detail why we believe Michael is still alive. I would like to pass the pen to [username] who will bring more light to the oddities surrounding [subject]. Until then, you are most welcome to visit the website and join us in the discussions. And remember: It's all for L.O.V.E.!
Very good resume to start with, with your personal touch of the story, which I can identify myself with in some parts.
I am 100% Ok with this presentation.
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Hey Souza!
While I am still on the fence about all this, and sad to read the threads here.....I would like to lend my help with some minor typo things I see in your well written article.......don't mean to offend etc....but, I did catch a few things you may want to take a look at (totally your call). I put them in bold print above...here is the run-down for you to see:
spinned- should be spun
rollercoaster- should be roller-coaster or
roller coaster
converstaion- should be conversation
dispite- should be despite
extend- should be extent
A couple of grammar/punctuation things:
"we appreciate it that"-perhaps leave out "it" (not really needed in the sentence)
"besides that"- needs a comma after that "besides that," or just "besides,"
"is" - should be, "are" ...none of them are allowed....
Please, please, please know I am not nit-picking or trying to offend etc.....I just have a background in writing and want you to look professional. Wonderwall had a typo or two as well....makes me wonder about them. I would be very careful mentioning Aphrodite Jones or CNN. Especially, mentioning CNN....you do not want them breathing down your neck.
Anyways....it's all very interesting. I hope it pans out to have been a good thing. I guess we will only know in hindsight!
Blessings to you and everyone here on forum.....I pray this will not come between members. I am afraid, however, it already has :( I will keep you all in my thoughts and prayers for this journey.
Blessings Always!
Thanks, I have a Dutch version of Word and it won't do a spell check on English writings, so it's appreciated. I fixed the errors, but I can't find the last one: "is" - should be, "are" ...none of them are allowed.... Can you tell me where to look?
It has never been my intention to divide members with this, but if I do not tell before hand, it's not appreciated either. The last option is to go against what I believe can be a good step and not send an article in at all. That is just not in my charachter. If people feel the urge to attack me on this and spread lies on other forums, so be it. I am used to that by now. This could be a good oppertunity for us to get the word out. I am as skeptical as anyone, don't believe for a second that I trust any media outlet, but I think we can give this magazine the benefit of the doubt. If they screw up, so be it. There is no danger for Mike in it, since we simply don't know where he is and we send him nothing what hasn't been posted on here for everyone te read already. Worst case scenario they think we're nuts. They think so anyway until the truth comes out so that is something I won't lose sleep over. We are here to support Mike and to spread love, make people see what we see so why keep that to ourselves? I think Mike tried to get this out many times himself with the Alive-articles on TMZ, Teddy Riley screaming he's a live etc. So I don't see a problem in telling people my beliefs, I do that in real life as well, this is nothing different other than that it hopefully will reach more people at once.
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Let's just go for it. Like Souza says there's nothing that isn't here anyway for anyone to see. What's the worst that could happen? Non-believers will think we're nuts. Well they do anyway. We could be made a laughing stock? Don't see how considering we're not putting anything controversial in this article. The worst that could happen is we get more trolls coming here and making fun of us, the positives must outweigh that, if more people start to "get it" or at least question more. We still don't know if MJ even realised it would take THIS long for people to wake up, no matter how conditioned by the media they are, so maybe he wants to get the message heard by more people and for the ripple effect to start. We've got voices, we might as well use them!
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Souza said:
"Thanks, I have a Dutch version of Word and it won't do a spell check on English writings, so it's appreciated. I fixed the errors, but I can't find the last one: "is" - should be, "are" ...none of them are allowed.... Can you tell me where to look?"
This paragraph:
"Michael hired lots of actors before his death, none of them is allowed to speak to this day, because every one of them had to sign a confidentiality agreement."
Souza said:
"It has never been my intention to divide members with this, but if I do not tell before hand, it's not appreciated either. The last option is to go against what I believe can be a good step and not send an article in at all. That is just not in my character. If people feel the urge to attack me on this and spread lies on other forums, so be it. I am used to that by now. This could be a good opportunity for us to get the word out. I am as skeptical as anyone, don't believe for a second that I trust any media outlet, but I think we can give this magazine the benefit of the doubt. If they screw up, so be it. There is no danger for Mike in it, since we simply don't know where he is and we send him nothing what hasn't been posted on here for everyone to read already. Worst case scenario they think we're nuts. They think so anyway until the truth comes out so that is something I won't lose sleep over. We are here to support Mike and to spread love, make people see what we see so why keep that to ourselves? I think Mike tried to get this out many times himself with the Alive-articles on TMZ, Teddy Riley screaming he's a live etc. So I don't see a problem in telling people my beliefs, I do that in real life as well, this is nothing different other than that it hopefully will reach more people at once."
Thank you for this response.....it's sad that it's come to a division of beliefs. I know you will do your best to represent the truth. It was only a matter of time our beLIEfs would be put to the test. I see this as a baby step. If they are legit, and if it gets noticed by other larger publications....we are off to the races. It will just take one major player in the media to notice (in a serious way). They all want to be the first...hummmmmm....wonder who will, "notice" first, and have the first scoop. I imagine TMZ would report Michael's alive 6 minutes before you tell them, lol! What a ride this is!!!
Thanks again.........
Blessings to you all!
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Nice article Souza. I like the personal touch. I guess it would be the magazine's job to write a disclaimer saying this in no way reflects the beliefs of Michael Jackson or anyone from his camp. Even though it is in the conspiracy section of the magazine so I don't know if it's needed. Just thinking out loud here. Anyway, great start. I can't wait to see what's next. And you can use whatever findings from me. I really don't care. :lol:
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and...you may think this far fetched.. but how do we KNOW Michael isn't behind this too? Not many can say the can have updates on where he is monthly...clue? Michael has dealt with magazines to get out info since a child with passing out mags for JW's...maybe he wanted his own publication (media) to get his message out where he has the final view before publication. Just a thought :D The timing makes me think too...
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and...you may think this far fetched.. but how do we KNOW Michael isn't behind this too? Not many can say the can have updates on where he is monthly...clue? Michael has dealt with magazines to get out info since a child with passing out mags for JW's...maybe he wanted his own publication (media) to get his message out where he has the final view before publication. Just a thought :D The timing makes me think too...
Good point. You never know... I was thinking how similar this magazine is to George magazine which was redirected on TIAI earlier. It could just be a coincidence but do we even believe in coincidences at this point? :lol:
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I don't understand why members are getting angry over this..
What is the difference of the information being on a forum, or in a magazine??
THE INFORMATION IS OUT THERE. THIS IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE THE HOAX!
The kind of people who read this magazine, will be a different crowd anyway....they might
be VERY ACCEPTING of our findings and even sign up at the forum!
But seriously folks, why is this SUCH a huge deal??? By this time, people HAVE to be aware that
some of Michael's fans think he is alive. The spot in the magazine will just explain why.
People are getting WAY too bent out of shape over this! :roll: :roll: :roll:
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and...you may think this far fetched.. but how do we KNOW Michael isn't behind this too? Not many can say the can have updates on where he is monthly...clue? Michael has dealt with magazines to get out info since a child with passing out mags for JW's...maybe he wanted his own publication (media) to get his message out where he has the final view before publication. Just a thought :D The timing makes me think too...
Good point. You never know... I was thinking how similar this magazine is to George magazine which was redirected on TIAI earlier. It could just be a coincidence but do we even believe in coincidences at this point? :lol:
I was thinking the same things....and let's see what gematria matches are for Wonderwall:
127= Wonderwall = Moonwalker
I have to laugh at this point....I know you guys are not into the whole gematria stuff, but really? Moonwalker as a match to a new magazine that wants to feature articles about the hoax? Don't forget the tag-line on WonderWall: Believe in Everything
*for newer folks here....gematria is a simple way to give a numeric value to letters a=1, b=2 etc
here is the link to a post I did long time ago:
viewtopic.php?f=253&t=10681&hilit=+coincidences (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=253&t=10681&hilit=+coincidences)
Anyways....seems like we think alike at times! Shocked I am! LOL!
Have a wonderful day!
Blessings Always!
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gives me chills :)
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Ps. Souza, in your "before you disregard, please consider these items," portion at the end, what do you think about including a mention about how the patient in the "last photo of Michael Jackson" appears to be MJ from 1987, not at all how he appeared in TII and certainly nothing like the EMT's description of a frail, old, bald, hospice patient"? I think this is another compelling fact that gets people's attention and would generate further curiosity. I know you can't list everything but I think it's one of the biggest contradictions.
Agree with Bec. Souza maybe you can add somethings about the 911 call and how the ambulance was going out backwards and the ambulance picture. What do you think? I would love to write an article but I don't think I can make sentences like yours with the language barrier I have. Amazing job once more. I couldn't do it any better and great you didn't include anything about NWO or numerology. God bless you girl.
P.S: I wonder what TS thinks about this issue. Souza did you receive any PM about this from TS?
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I do not agree with Souza doing this without consultation with other forum administrators and members. If we do not agree as a whole on this, division is created and Michael's message is about unity and bringing us together. Souza has not been elected as our spokesperson and does not speak for Michael, me or anyone else. Souza turned my post original post around with a rude response and calling me judgmental when I was disagreeing with her, pointing out things "we" should consider, and possible outcomes of taking this action. There is no "love" in her posts to myself and others, who disagree with her actions. There is disrespect, rudeness, cruelty , and dismissal, and many members continue to ignore this behaviour and attitude which I find very upsetting.
Souza's posted a draft of her first article in the thread; you must realize that the entire time she was arguing with me, she had already created that article. In other words, she was never asking for anyone's opinion on any proposed articles at all...this was straight up manipulation. She had already decided what she was doing and had actually already written the first article for the Wonderwall Magazine.
I don't care if some members believe that the article is well written (not all members do though but I will not name names) or any of the other accolades some forum members are bestowing on her; she has lied, manipulated and deceived us all once again. Members of this forum are afraid to speak their mind honestly, as they have witnessed the abuse that occurs, if you don't agree with Souza or the group; the ridicule, ganging up, dismissal, rudeness etc and then eventual banning or being told to leave. This isn't "thinking for yourself" this is being bullied and dictated to. Leaving the forum means no longer being a member of the community and feeling alone and excluded when so many others don't believe Michael is alive. This is not right nor just.
Souza has admitted to other deceptions/manipulations and just because you admit to that doesn't excuse it. She has made at least one fake account on the forum to play with people and "show how easily they believe in fakes", she was aware of at least one other fake accounts made by a member on twitter and with her blessing, she received information from an anonymous informer, who directed her research and beliefs which she then shoves down all of our throats as the only truth, whether we agree with her or not. All of this does reflect on someone's character and many of those who have written about their experiences with Souza, are being labelled as at fault. When the fault actually lies with the person in the centre of all this discord, Souza herself.
Many members have left or been banned from the site, there is something wrong here. When are we going to say enough is enough and be tolerant of others views, treating each other with respect, caring and understanding? When are we going to stand up to any authoritarian figure, when their behaviour is not acceptable and when are we going to stop being afraid of anyone and back up those who are thinking for themselves? This forum is a reflection of a larger world view and where is the love really because I can't see it anymore. It's just hollow words written on a screen and actions are speaking much louder. We are failing Michael, each other, and ourselves.
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Wonderwall Magazine
Registrant:
Ben Martin
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Vista, California 92084
United States
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Domain Name: WONDERWALLMAGAZINE.COM
Created on: 04-Nov-10
Expires on: 04-Nov-12
Last Updated on: 14-Dec-10
Administrative Contact:
Martin, Ben yesterdaymagazine@hotmail.com (http://mailto:yesterdaymagazine@hotmail.com)
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Yesterday Magazine
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Yesterday Magazine
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Domain Name: YESTERDAYMAG.COM
Created on: 29-Jun-08
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Last Updated on: 13-May-09
Administrative Contact:
Martin, Ben nicopensrs@softcomca.com (http://mailto:nicopensrs@softcomca.com)
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Yesterday Magazine
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About - JOIN THE REVOLUTION!
Personal information: Yesterday Magazine is dedicated to the authenticity of local musicians, interesting people and important issues in our world. It is a collection of writing from eclectic characters who interview performers, unearth rare finds, and showcase musical genius.
Website: http://www.myspace.com/yesterdaymagazine
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Wonderwall Magazine
Basic Info
Founded: Oct. 13th 2010
About: Nothing is Real!
Website: http://www.wonderwallmagazine.com
Release date: Jan. 29th 2011
General information: Wonderwall Magazine formed in 2010 with dreams to reach people accross the globe. With over 13 sections of the magazine, we hope to attract a broad breed of readers. There's music, glam, history, technology, travel, conspiracies, interviews and the list goes on.
Description: A magazine with the perfect mix. Something John Lennon would take on his plane ride to the U.S.S.R.
Company Overview: Believe in Everything
Mission: Coming Soon!
Products: Magazines, Hoodies, T-shirts, Shoes and Hats
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Wonderwall-Magazine/170694859627478#!/pages/Wonderwall-Magazine/170694859627478?v=info
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Pretty much to sum up this magazine and my feelings on all of this.
Wonderwall has no issues yet. The owner has another magazine in which he features local bands which has 2 issues. This magazine has no real following and is published only locally in San Diego, California and online. Last I checked there were only 9 people falling the "Wonderwall" facebook page.
Souza is submitting an article to an unproven, magazine that has no readership, without the full blessings of the community she is purporting to represent. She has said that if the magazine pays her for the articles, she will donate that to charity. This is an attempt at presenting a "selling point" to the forum members. But being a magazine, the goal is to make money, this is done through advertisements within the magazine. Advertisers may be very cautious to even buy space in a magazine that has a conspiracy theory section and the magazine would only give Souza a small remuneration, if anything for the articles.
This magazine has not proven itself as responsible nor even appealing to any kind of readership...they have no published editions. If you visit the Wonderwall Magazine website you will that the articles and site are not complete and there are no comments on any of the articles posted there. Souza has just received a series of emails from Ben Martin or one of his friends or something. She has run with the idea and in my opinion without adequate reserach or consideration. At this point, this magazine is no different than a sort of blog or a very small local magazine. Part of the reason for possibly even including a series on Michael Jackson, in the Magazine, could be as a marketing tool but who knows how successful that would be with such a small market.
At best, this will be completely pointless and no one will notice it at all, At worst, she risks doing more damage to Michael, the hoax and the community, if a larger media outlet picks up the story and twists it as The Sun did with her previous interview.
Let's hope that it falls somewhere in the middle and it isn't all for nothing...
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I think the article states Souza's thoughts and opinions just fine (minus the spelling, grammar errors, etc.). However, I think to start listing some of the theories right at the beginning could be scaled back, concentrate perhaps on one event that was suspicious and then leave it to the reader wanting to find out more. You need to entice the reader (like reading a mystery novel).
I also found the part of Michael's trial section just a little too revealing and could be cut back. I do not believe it needs to be reiterated that he allegedly touched young boys. Everyone knows why he was on this "bogus" trial and to bring it back to their minds is a little unsettling for me. JMO
However, I do think that because everyone has their own theories about what happened and more importantly WHY he did this, I think it is important that a disclaimer be put at the end of every article advising the reader that:
"the opinions and theories expressed in this article are solely the author's interpretation of the events surrounding Michael's "passing" and does not in any way reflect the MJDH membership's opinions and views as a whole"... or something to effect. This way it keeps everyone happy. You have to realize there are new members on here as well that have come here to investigate or read and comment here and there and may not know everything that is on this forum and also may not believe all theories. JMO
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Souza already said she wasn't going to ask our permission to do this, I don't see how it was done in an underhanded way. She was asking for our opinions on her decision as far as I can see. I can understand your position Serenity as I have in the past spoken out myself about certain issues and the danger of an "in crowd" mentality however I'm still here in spite of it. Divisive issues like this will always come up, however in this case I don't get what the big deal is. The media when they choose to speak to the members of this site have to speak to a single person, and as the administrator (maybe now the only admin if Mo has decided to quit), it's obvious that Souza is the person they speak to. As pointed out she has not been elected spokesperson but she is the mouthpiece for the forum because she's the admin. Common sense really.
Whatever is in the article is already here for all to see anyway, this seems to be another "Souza wants all the glory" problem, just as Mo said in her posts. Turning the whole thing into a competition for credit and authority. Unfortunately these issues detract from our goal here and come off like a case of sour grapes. Ego and personality clashes are bound to happen but they're destructive. As long as Souza informs us what she's writing and doesn't make us all look nuts then I don't think we have to worry about her going power crazy and trying to invade a small country. ;)
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@SD
I do agree with you that there must have been a voting between the members if we are going to write an article to the this magazine or not. The decision should be belong to all of us, not only Souza. Because Souza is not going to write in the magazine but also we are too. And we are all going to write about what we all talked and shared during the past 19 months on this forum. So, "my ideas only" is actually something we all know and was shared on the forum. If I was the admin I would definitely ask for the members' permission. But I'm not and I do not have a right to tell her what to do. And I must say that I was so so scared if what she was going to write was going to be about NWO and I thought it could ruin Michael's plans and could put his life in danger BUT the article she wrote is very well stated without getting into numerology and the NWO issue. I do not think that this could ruin the hoax or Michael's plan because like Souza said, this information is all over the internet, on the hoax forums and hundereds of hoax videos. If this magazine has no readers yet, that's ok. Nobody reads it, so what do we lose? Nothing. If some people read it and think that we're nuts, who cares? They already think we're crazy. So bringing the hoax to another medium would not harm Michael or his plans in my opinion. I do understand you SD, as I do agree at some points with you and I agree at some points with Souza. If Michael didn't want anyone to learn about the hoax, he wouldn't leave any clues behind. So I think it's ok to spread the truth about his "death".
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I have a question? I know our little "forum" is not a secret, however I thought the main point to this was to really try to find the truth of what happened to Michael. So my question is, why is it so important that more people jump on our bandwagon. It just doesn't make sense to me to try and convince other people by exposing what we have uncovered. Who cares? For what purpose? We want to know if Michael is ok, don't we? or do we care how many people we can convert? People are free to find us, why do we need to advertize in the same media that Michael hated. And lets just imagine for just one moment that Michael doesn't want to be found, what will this do to him? harms way? Could be.......
Yep - my feelings exactly.
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Please clarify the statement below since I am trying to understand why it keeps popping up within your comments.
"I do not agree with Souza doing this without consultation with other forum administrators and members."
People joined these forums by choice and to make independent contributions to the threads. They were not recruited into a member-based organization. Nothing has been discussed to recommend that these forums become an organized entity i.e. fan club. Therefore, I am not fully understanding why there must be a consensus on what is discussed on or off of the forums. If this group or any of the others were structured organizations with chapters, officers, dues etc then your suggestion for a consultation would be valid and expected. Please share why you think that individuals among the forums should have a consultation before speaking openly about theories regarding MJ.
I do not agree with Souza doing this without consultation with other forum administrators and members. If we do not agree as a whole on this, division is created and Michael's message is about unity and bringing us together. Souza has not been elected as our spokesperson and does not speak for Michael, me or anyone else. Souza turned my post original post around with a rude response and calling me judgmental when I was disagreeing with her, pointing out things "we" should consider, and possible outcomes of taking this action. There is no "love" in her posts to myself and others, who disagree with her actions. There is disrespect, rudeness, cruelty , and dismissal, and many members continue to ignore this behaviour and attitude which I find very upsetting.
Souza's posted a draft of her first article in the thread; you must realize that the entire time she was arguing with me, she had already created that article. In other words, she was never asking for anyone's opinion on any proposed articles at all...this was straight up manipulation. She had already decided what she was doing and had actually already written the first article for the Wonderwall Magazine.
I don't care if some members believe that the article is well written (not all members do though but I will not name names) or any of the other accolades some forum members are bestowing on her; she has lied, manipulated and deceived us all once again. Members of this forum are afraid to speak their mind honestly, as they have witnessed the abuse that occurs, if you don't agree with Souza or the group; the ridicule, ganging up, dismissal, rudeness etc and then eventual banning or being told to leave. This isn't "thinking for yourself" this is being bullied and dictated to. Leaving the forum means no longer being a member of the community and feeling alone and excluded when so many others don't believe Michael is alive. This is not right nor just.
Souza has admitted to other deceptions/manipulations and just because you admit to that doesn't excuse it. She has made at least one fake account on the forum to play with people and "show how easily they believe in fakes", she was aware of at least one other fake accounts made by a member on twitter and with her blessing, she received information from an anonymous informer, who directed her research and beliefs which she then shoves down all of our throats as the only truth, whether we agree with her or not. All of this does reflect on someone's character and many of those who have written about their experiences with Souza, are being labelled as at fault. When the fault actually lies with the person in the centre of all this discord, Souza herself.
Many members have left or been banned from the site, there is something wrong here. When are we going to say enough is enough and be tolerant of others views, treating each other with respect, caring and understanding? When are we going to stand up to any authoritarian figure, when their behaviour is not acceptable and when are we going to stop being afraid of anyone and back up those who are thinking for themselves? This forum is a reflection of a larger world view and where is the love really because I can't see it anymore. It's just hollow words written on a screen and actions are speaking much louder. We are failing Michael, each other, and ourselves.
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Nice article Souza. I like the personal touch. I guess it would be the magazine's job to write a disclaimer saying this in no way reflects the beliefs of Michael Jackson or anyone from his camp. Even though it is in the conspiracy section of the magazine so I don't know if it's needed. Just thinking out loud here. Anyway, great start. I can't wait to see what's next. And you can use whatever findings from me. I really don't care. :lol:
In fact Souza could put a disclaimer that these views do not necessarily represent the views of all members on the MJHDI forum. (We are an eclectic independant-thinking people here.)and...you may think this far fetched.. but how do we KNOW Michael isn't behind this too? Not many can say the can have updates on where he is monthly...clue? Michael has dealt with magazines to get out info since a child with passing out mags for JW's...maybe he wanted his own publication (media) to get his message out where he has the final view before publication. Just a thought :D The timing makes me think too...
Nothing would surprise me, with all the other shows advertized that turned out to be hoax-related and nothing.
So I would say go ahead, Souza. The worst I can see happening, is another bigger magazine noting it, twisting it, and reporting it as ridiculous. This magazine may be going to nowhere and barely even go to print, in which case, you have a lovely new article to add to the front page of this site. I sense you enjoy writing anyway!
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I can understand your position Serenity as I have in the past spoken out myself about certain issues and the danger of an "in crowd" mentality however I'm still here in spite of it. Divisive issues like this will always come up, however in this case I don't get what the big deal is.
You took the words from my mouth.
The media when they choose to speak to the members of this site have to speak to a single person, and as the administrator (maybe now the only admin if Mo has decided to quit), it's obvious that Souza is the person they speak to. As pointed out she has not been elected spokesperson but she is the mouthpiece for the forum because she's the admin. Common sense really.
I Think the same.
Whatever is in the article is already here for all to see anyway, this seems to be another "Souza wants all the glory" problem, just as Mo said in her posts. Turning the whole thing into a competition for credit and authority. Unfortunately these issues detract from our goal here and come off like a case of sour grapes. Ego and personality clashes are bound to happen but they're destructive. As long as Souza informs us what she's writing and doesn't make us all look nuts then I don't think we have to worry about her going power crazy and trying to invade a small country. ;)
Agree on this as well.
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At best, this will be completely pointless and no one will notice it at all, At worst, she risks doing more damage to Michael, the hoax and the community, if a larger media outlet picks up the story and twists it as The Sun did with her previous interview.
Let's hope that it falls somewhere in the middle and it isn't all for nothing...
Imo, whoever is interested in knowing the hoax views, will come back to the source, this site, and read by themselves and find out if any info was twisted intentionally.
I am sure that by now larger media outlets are awared of this site or hoax ideas in general.
Looks like you are suspicious that this Wonderwall magazine just wants to use Michael´s name to get sponsors and not really talk about the hoax, but I believe the benefit of the doubt must be given in this case.
However, I agree that a voting must happen to see how many members agree with the publication of the 1st article.
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I do not agree with Souza doing this without consultation with other forum administrators and members. If we do not agree as a whole on this, division is created and Michael's message is about unity and bringing us together. Souza has not been elected as our spokesperson and does not speak for Michael, me or anyone else. Souza turned my post original post around with a rude response and calling me judgmental when I was disagreeing with her, pointing out things "we" should consider, and possible outcomes of taking this action. There is no "love" in her posts to myself and others, who disagree with her actions. There is disrespect, rudeness, cruelty , and dismissal, and many members continue to ignore this behaviour and attitude which I find very upsetting.
Souza's posted a draft of her first article in the thread; you must realize that the entire time she was arguing with me, she had already created that article. In other words, she was never asking for anyone's opinion on any proposed articles at all...this was straight up manipulation. She had already decided what she was doing and had actually already written the first article for the Wonderwall Magazine.
I don't care if some members believe that the article is well written (not all members do though but I will not name names) or any of the other accolades some forum members are bestowing on her; she has lied, manipulated and deceived us all once again. Members of this forum are afraid to speak their mind honestly, as they have witnessed the abuse that occurs, if you don't agree with Souza or the group; the ridicule, ganging up, dismissal, rudeness etc and then eventual banning or being told to leave. This isn't "thinking for yourself" this is being bullied and dictated to. Leaving the forum means no longer being a member of the community and feeling alone and excluded when so many others don't believe Michael is alive. This is not right nor just.
Souza has admitted to other deceptions/manipulations and just because you admit to that doesn't excuse it. She has made at least one fake account on the forum to play with people and "show how easily they believe in fakes", she was aware of at least one other fake accounts made by a member on twitter and with her blessing, she received information from an anonymous informer, who directed her research and beliefs which she then shoves down all of our throats as the only truth, whether we agree with her or not. All of this does reflect on someone's character and many of those who have written about their experiences with Souza, are being labelled as at fault. When the fault actually lies with the person in the centre of all this discord, Souza herself.
Many members have left or been banned from the site, there is something wrong here. When are we going to say enough is enough and be tolerant of others views, treating each other with respect, caring and understanding? When are we going to stand up to any authoritarian figure, when their behaviour is not acceptable and when are we going to stop being afraid of anyone and back up those who are thinking for themselves? This forum is a reflection of a larger world view and where is the love really because I can't see it anymore. It's just hollow words written on a screen and actions are speaking much louder. We are failing Michael, each other, and ourselves.
That's it SD, I am sick and tired of your negativity, lies and arrogance on this forum. I am not spending hours a day on this to get stabbed in the back by members like you. You are out. Seems like they totally agree with you on .net, so I guess you should resume posting there.
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Souza I've stayed out of this one because I'm a newbie here.
But this has always been my outlook on things.
If it feels right to you DO it.
I have no vested interest one way or the other.
Just DO it. :mrgreen:
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WHAT is .net?
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WHAT is .net?
The other forum where bitching and attacking other forums and its members/admins is more important then investigating the hoax. That one...
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I think i'm done about this story and about people thinking they know what Michael want in his life.
I'm out of here and asked for someone to delete my account.
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hummm don't sound like "home" to me..♪"When I think of home I think of a place where there's love and affection"♫ (The Wiz)
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Yeah, well anyone is free to stay or go if they want if they think this is such a big disaster. I never heard anyone attacking me for being interviewed twice by a UK radio station. So be it, but just so that everyone knows: I only deactivate accounts, I don't delete them. The forum will get way too messy and confusing if I did.
I am a bit tired of the discussion. Next time I will just go ahead like with the radio station, and no one will make a big deal out of it. Whatever I do, I can never do it right in everyone's eyes and that's ok as long as I know what I stand for myself.
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So...both sides have been heard...there's no benefit from continuing on with the discussion. Just lock it ;)
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I am very very sad about this. :( , but I know as a leader you have to make hard calls and decisions, and allowing members to attack the leader undermines the very existence of this forum. I remain faithful to this site, to the investigations into MJ's life and hoax. There needs to be unity to stay healthy. Unfortunately the more strong feisty personalities are often the best investigators as well. I still love and appreciate you Serenitys Dream, and I will miss you very much (real tears). This is a sad day, but let's move on and forward. On with the show, THIS IS IT !
I'm behind you Souza!
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Off topic and
a side bar.
fordtocarr
hummm don't sound like "home" to me..♪"When I think of home I think of a place where there's love and affection"♫ (The Wiz)
Yeeeeeeeeea!...My favorite song from that movie is You Can't Win!
I think we are both kids at heart...who says arrested development
is a BAD thing?
I'm getting The Wiz for my favorite three year old this weekend. :mrgreen:
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the way i look at is that either way this will eventually get out. the hoax will be exposed at some point. we can either be the first to put the information out there, the people who have been here and have been fighting and sticking together through the doubts, the stagnant periods, the exciting times. or, we can let a random journalist who hasn't invested time in this to write about it in whatever way they want to spin it.
so, do we reveal to the world what we know, knowing it'll be written from the truth which we believe, or let some random person do it?
personally, i'd like to keep it in the family. i've observed for the past couple of months that there are dealings going on behind the forum. not everything is laid out on the table. i respect that there are some things that aren't relevant to know, but i'm very thankful souza chose to discuss this as a forum, a family, instead of just writing it and then posting a topic of "hey guys i'm writing about this in this magazine now..." so thank you souza.
those opposed to writing about it in the media, i understand your concern. but then again, who would you want to write about it in the end? cause trust me, it will be written. it's HIStory.
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i've observed for the past couple of months that there are dealings going on behind the forum.
Can you please post what kind of dealings before people will jump on my back again? This might be taken the wrong way.
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i've observed for the past couple of months that there are dealings going on behind the forum.
Can you please post what kind of dealings before people will jump on my back again? This might be taken the wrong way.
yes, i was talking about the battle between the mods a couple of months ago. i DO NOT want to bring that up again. we've moved past that rough spot. i've just read what mo said and i've read what you said. i understand that it was a problem between you two, but i was merely observing both of your sides. that's what i meant.
i think it's sad that you've been upfront about this and then people get really upset. but if you didn't say anything and all of sudden you did it, they get upset too. i just appreciate being given a heads up.
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Why can't we find a way to get along? It is true we have different ideas, different opinions, but it does not mean we have to be vicious about it. Things can be said the class and diplomacy. If that can't happen we are not human beings. Michael wouldn't like that. Where is the L.O.V.E.? Has it vanished?
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personally, i'd like to keep it in the family. i've observed for the past couple of months that there are dealings going on behind the forum. not everything is laid out on the table. i respect that there are some things that aren't relevant to know, but i'm very thankful souza chose to discuss this as a forum, a family, instead of just writing it and then posting a topic of "hey guys i'm writing about this in this magazine now..." so thank you souza.
those opposed to writing about it in the media, i understand your concern. but then again, who would you want to write about it in the end? cause trust me, it will be written. it's HIStory.[/quote]
I don't think that anyone opposes to writing about it in the media per se. I think where the concern lies is how we use that information in the article, how it is relayed to the general public and does the article reflect our opinions and thoughts as a forum as a whole. I don't think it does... everyone has different opinions on different issues on this forum. I think that is where the concern comes and rightly so. Perhaps some people don't want their information used to "write an article or book or movie" and they have every right to advise the forum of their concerns. I think people should be able to speak freely on this forum without being called names or trying to get rid of people because they don't agree with everything here. We are here to learn and find the truth (at least that is why I am here). I am glad we had this discussion because if ever a more reputable magazine like Time or something like that approached us, we should have our ducks in a row as far as how to deal with the outside media who wants to publish some of our "stories" or "opinions".
Everyone who has left the forum has their reasons and we are not here to judge why people leave or stay. I don't consider Souza a leader, she is just another poster with opinions who also happens to keep this forum running (and I do appreciate that and I have told her that), but I certainly don't give her anymore praise than the next person. I treat everyone equal here.
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I am going to say it just one more time and then step out of this discussion because I get the feeling my posts are taken the wrong way every time.
I have been contacted by the media and because I think it is a good platform to get the word out, I decided to cooperate. I have already stated that I am skeptical as well, but I have also showed a few times that the worst case scenario is that this magazine twists the words like the Sun did etc. and that no one will be in danger because of it, since it is already on the net everywhere for everyone to read. People might think we're crazy, but they think so anyway and seriously, this is not about our own egos. My nickname is Souza and my real name doesn't even come close. Anyone talking to me on here would walk right passed me if they bump into me because no one on here knows me. Even those who do not like me, would probably have a ball with me in real life when we would meet in a bar. I don't give a shit if some ignorant and blind fools taht might comment to the article call me names because they don't even know me and despite what people might say or think: I am not here for myself. I could have made tons of money with this website and I could have accepted way more media offers if I liked, but I didn't. I am here for the sole reason to support Michael Jackson because I can assure you that being the admin of this forum is not a fun hobby at all with all the name calling and accusations. But I started it once and I am not a quiter and I will do whatever necessary to maintain this as long as needed.
I have posted this for 2 simple reasons:
1. Last time when we didn't let the members know, we were attacked, so this time I wanted to let you know in advance. I am my own person and although I appreciate the members of this forum, people can not forbid me to do anything.
2. I thought it would be a nice idea if others would participate in the articles as well. As you can see when you read the draft, I have no intention on pushing my theories on someone or use someones posts, my sole intention is to get people QUESTION things and visit this forum so that they can make up their own minds. The idea is to present the evidence we found in a clear way that is easy for readers to follow and will make them scratch their heads. If the one writing the article wants to write about their personal thoughts and feelings about the hoax, then I think that will only make people able to relate to us. By only summing up facts we sound like robots.
Anyone that feels the need to attack me personally, posting lies or whatever because they feel offended, go ahead but not on this forum. Like I said, I spend too much time keeping this up to be stabbed in the back. I already mentioned in my original post that I also was expecting negative opinions and that is fine, as long as people can stay respectful and don't go and attack me on things that are either untrue or just simply irrelevant.
For those who do want to participate and have ideas for later issues (GirlSaturday already volunteered to write part 2), let me know. If this magazine will really go in print and if they do what they promise, we might make a lot more people aware of the hoax.
Awareness, Awakening and Hope. SPREAD the LOVE. Why be selfish and keep it all to ourselves?
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Im_convincedmjalive wrote:
I am trippin on the members who are worried about theories being published in a magazine in a section about conspiracies and THEORIES like NWO, Illuminati, corrupt shit happening in our governments, God, and whatever else.
Liberian Girl Heehee wrote:
It is one thing to say that Michael felt threatened and even told people, including his siblings, that there were people out to kill him. That is undisputed facts. But, if you say the words NWO, Illuminati, etc., most people wouldn't know who the heck you were even talking about and if you were to try to explain who they are, they may say, "Ooookaaay," as they slowly back out of the room. So, stop trippin on me...please.
No where in my comment above did I mention Michael and NWO theories. I said "theories being published in a magazine in a section about conspiracies and THEORIES like NWO, Illuminati, corrupt shit happening in our governments, God, and whatever else".
That was a statement about theories not facts, and I was referring to the other threads posted here on this forum that are about the Illuminati, NWO, Etc.
Theres alot of threads posted in The other Conspiracy section that have nothing to do with Michael. I was saying those theories are here on this forum; what is the difference if it goes into a magazine? The theories are here for the world to read already.
I never mentioned anything about Michael and people out to kill him, you did.
Peace
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Gema wrote: I hope this new magazine will be able to use theories and so called conspiracies to show that Michael Jackson was unfairly treated by media and leeaches all over his life as well as promoting the idea that may be we have been lied about regarding MJ´s death.
I agree with this, and we like it or not the new world order and this whole issue of the iluminatti is directly related to the industry of the music and film that in this way condition the people's minds to what they want. I am going to rely on Souza
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Gema wrote: I hope this new magazine will be able to use theories and so called conspiracies to show that Michael Jackson was unfairly treated by media and leeaches all over his life as well as promoting the idea that may be we have been lied about regarding MJ´s death.
I agree with this, and we like it or not the new world order and this whole issue of the iluminatti is directly related to the industry of the music and film that in this way condition the people's minds to what they want. I am going to rely on Souza
I have presented what I will send them and all we can hope for is that the magazine will do as they promise and will actually go to the printer. If not, well too bad, at least we tried.
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I am going to say it just one more time and then step out of this discussion because I get the feeling my posts are taken the wrong way every time.
I have been contacted by the media and because I think it is a good platform to get the word out, I decided to cooperate. I have already stated that I am skeptical as well, but I have also showed a few times that the worst case scenario is that this magazine twists the words like the Sun did etc. and that no one will be in danger because of it, since it is already on the net everywhere for everyone to read. People might think we're crazy, but they think so anyway and seriously, this is not about our own egos. My nickname is Souza and my real name doesn't even come close. Anyone talking to me on here would walk right passed me if they bump into me because no one on here knows me. Even those who do not like me, would probably have a ball with me in real life when we would meet in a bar. I don't give a shit if some ignorant and blind fools taht might comment to the article call me names because they don't even know me and despite what people might say or think: I am not here for myself. I could have made tons of money with this website and I could have accepted way more media offers if I liked, but I didn't. I am here for the sole reason to support Michael Jackson because I can assure you that being the admin of this forum is not a fun hobby at all with all the name calling and accusations. But I started it once and I am not a quiter and I will do whatever necessary to maintain this as long as needed.
I have posted this for 2 simple reasons:
1. Last time when we didn't let the members know, we were attacked, so this time I wanted to let you know in advance. I am my own person and although I appreciate the members of this forum, people can not forbid me to do anything.
2. I thought it would be a nice idea if others would participate in the articles as well. As you can see when you read the draft, I have no intention on pushing my theories on someone or use someones posts, my sole intention is to get people QUESTION things and visit this forum so that they can make up their own minds. The idea is to present the evidence we found in a clear way that is easy for readers to follow and will make them scratch their heads. If the one writing the article wants to write about their personal thoughts and feelings about the hoax, then I think that will only make people able to relate to us. By only summing up facts we sound like robots.
Anyone that feels the need to attack me personally, posting lies or whatever because they feel offended, go ahead but not on this forum. Like I said, I spend too much time keeping this up to be stabbed in the back. I already mentioned in my original post that I also was expecting negative opinions and that is fine, as long as people can stay respectful and don't go and attack me on things that are either untrue or just simply irrelevant.
For those who do want to participate and have ideas for later issues (GirlSaturday already volunteered to write part 2), let me know. If this magazine will really go in print and if they do what they promise, we might make a lot more people aware of the hoax.
Awareness, Awakening and Hope. SPREAD the LOVE. Why be selfish and keep it all to ourselves?
Amen!!!! At lest someone can say the truth! I would once again like to thank Souza for all of the hard work that has been put into this hoax. Just think of the endless hours of findind so many clues. I hope we can all spot and think about all of the effert that is put into this hoax. It always upsets me to read negative comments made that people have made. Remeber to think of who you are saying anything to and how you say/plan on saying/said it to them.
Thank You Souza!
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I am very very sad about this. :( , but I know as a leader you have to make hard calls and decisions, and allowing members to attack the leader undermines the very existence of this forum.
After I read your post, I wanted to make a comment. I know that you're sad but something you wrote came to my attention. You wrote that there is a leader and members on the forum. I wouldn't like to name Souza as a leader. She is the admin of the forum but also a member of this community. I do not see anyone as a leader. Every each of us are equal on this forum no matter what our status is. Just wanted to state my opinion about this. And big MJ HUGS for you if you're still feeling sad. xox
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I am very very sad about this. :( , but I know as a leader you have to make hard calls and decisions, and allowing members to attack the leader undermines the very existence of this forum.
After I read your post, I wanted to make a comment. I know that you're sad but something you wrote came to my attention. You wrote that there is a leader and members on the forum. I wouldn't like to name Souza as a leader. She is the admin of the forum but also a member of this community. I do not see anyone as a leader. Every each of us are equal on this forum no matter what our status is. Just wanted to state my opinion about this. And big MJ HUGS for you if you're still feeling sad. xox
We are all a unity in this forum. This is what Michael wants for us to come together as a union, with full of love and happiness. MJonmind hope you are feeling better. God bless everyone
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Let's not forget that it was Souza who was contacted by the wonderwall guy, not the other way around. So it should be her choice whether she wants to contribute to the magazine - and she only offered to write the first article then pass it on to whoever wants to follow up. This wonderwall guy obviously chose this forum for a reason (it's the best one ;) ) and contacting Souza seems like the logical choice since she's the admin.
I'm quite astonished at how this whole thing escalated the way it did.
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Looks like a decision has been made already.
After reading the drama, I took a second thought and started lurking on that wonderwall magazine again, and I am geting and odd déjà vu feeling.
@Souza,
what is your "back door" in case this magazine turns out to be a deception?
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I am very very sad about this. :( , but I know as a leader you have to make hard calls and decisions, and allowing members to attack the leader undermines the very existence of this forum.
After I read your post, I wanted to make a comment. I know that you're sad but something you wrote came to my attention. You wrote that there is a leader and members on the forum. I wouldn't like to name Souza as a leader. She is the admin of the forum but also a member of this community. I do not see anyone as a leader. Every each of us are equal on this forum no matter what our status is. Just wanted to state my opinion about this. And big MJ HUGS for you if you're still feeling sad. xox
Thanks to you and all4loveandbelieve. We probably all need a group hug! Every time these eruptions happen and members go, it is upsetting. I guess it's just all human nature, and the challenges of structure and organization. Sorry for not using the correct word, admin rather than leader. In my mind they're pretty much the same. I've worked with Pastors, directors, coordinators, bosses, supervisers, and I guess I've always just lumped them all into leadership, which to me is a generic word. Everywhere in life there is always chain of command, it's a necessity, or things fall into disarray. Yes I agree we're all equal as people and investigators of the hoax.
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If, as SD suggests, this magazine is a go-nowhere enterprise then I guess in the end it will be much ado about nothing. I'm kinda middle-of-the-fence on this one. I don't damn Souza for doing it. Likewise, I don't damn those who oppose it. As with almost every discussion on this forum, there are multiple points of view.
That's it SD, I am sick and tired of your negativity, lies and arrogance on this forum. I am not spending hours a day on this to get stabbed in the back by members like you. You are out. Seems like they totally agree with you on .net, so I guess you should resume posting there.
I disagree with SD being told "you are out." Feel free to think otherwise, but that's my opinion. Yes, Souza, you take on a lot to run this site. I'm not overlooking that. But to suggest that you are the same as anyone else here is not exactly true when you can de-activate someone just because you've had enough of them. There are a few people I'd rather not see on this site but I can't just say, "Okay, I'm done with you!" and make it so. SD has been one of the biggest contributors of analytical information in this hoax. You have put a lot of sweat and tears into this forum but I'd argue that SD has probably spent hours a day here, as well. So how is it that you're being "stabbed in the back" for all your hard work, but SD isn't? I don't see how anything she posted to you in this thread is any more severe or personally attacking than what you said in your parting post. And I also think what anybody chooses to post on another forum is their business. Anybody else can choose to go there and take up the argument, or not. That's the beauty (and peril) of the internet.
Do I have an appreciation for SD? Yes, I do so you might say I'm biased. But I have an appreciation for you, too, Souza. On this one, I just think you let your emotions combined with your admin rights get the better of you.
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I have a fondness and love for both SD and Souza. I don't want to see anyone here get hurt, or sucked in by miserable press and potential liars in the world of the press. I do like what Souza wrote and how she wrote it carefully and thoughtfully though but I too must agree that SD is free to do as she pleases on other sites or on her own website. I rant my ass off on my own pages and dare anyone to tell me to stop unless it's my ISP or page provider so both Souza and SD have valid points. I just want everyone here to be careful, love love love Michael above all and be careful what we say about him or pertaining to him. I know there are snakes in our midst *NO NOT SOUZA or necessarily people we know* but possible plants by media etc...already in the fandom numbers. God forbid we dont want anymore mess like Bashir going on EVER.
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I am sadned to see SD leave, she did make valid points, and Souza made valid points.We all dedicated time and energy in finding out what happened to Michael. I for one had doctor friends who are putting their careers(professions) on the line to find out about MJ death certificate.By the way Souza I do not want this published in the magazine, please. The fact is that someone needs to compromise somewhere. Discussion, not bashing eachother. Like I said on my other post, we need to get along here, love is the key word. I know we do not know eachtoher, our names, our lives, we all live in different countries and in different continents. We are all adults, we should be more rationalized, and talk to each other with respect and dignity. I never seen this in my whole life. As you all know I am a psychologist, and this behaviour is unacceptable. I teach this to the my patients who are teenagers, who come to see me because of inner problems. I am not here to discuss my career, I should say my profession, with all of you. I just would want some peace and love. Michael has been dedicating his whole life,spreading the love peace, and harmony . You call yourselves soldiers of love? I am putting myself in it.NO WE ARE NOT.( I am not perfect, I have my own flaws) but I try very hard to respect my neighbor even if they live far away. So please if not for us but for Michael let's get along and discuss this like adults. I stated that if Souza investigated this magazine and it is in the up and up go for it. Her article was very well done, she did not name any names and did not talk about Illuminati and NWO> That is perfect. But one thing crossed my mind, if people read our postings, in this forum, they will probably say "it is the internet what chances it would be real?" If they read it in a magazine, they will buy it, they will believe . How many people buy tabloid magazines and they believe everything they read? So this is our concern that if you would write anything about the hoax that may harm Michael people will believe and it may go to the wrong hands. I know Souza is an intelligent woman and she knows what she is doing. Blessings.
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“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you." --Matthew 7:1-2
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I am gonna give Souza my trust and faith that she knows what she is doing. :) I trust her completely
and know that she would not put Michael in harms way!!
Still baffled though, at the controversy surrounding this.....
Its gonna be OKAY! Seriously!
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“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you." --Matthew 7:1-2
http://www.cfirecm.com/QandA/Judge%20No ... Judged.htm (http://www.cfirecm.com/QandA/Judge%20Not%20Lest%20Ye%20Be%20Judged.htm)
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I would like the payment issue clarified.
So far my posts on that issue have not been addressed. x
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I suggest we tread very cautiously when it comes to the media. One needs to be careful how the truth can be twisted by altering a few words or how a simple edit can ultimately change the meaning of one's original piece---regardless of the author's good intentions.
We mustn't forget that the world we live in is driven by the media-it's a huge conglomerate and it's powerful. Sadly, society accepts what they are told. If a lie is repeated enough it is accepted as truth.
In spite of this, let us not forget what Michael has often said about the media----it is good to heed his advice and be wary!
And, sadly, history has repeated itself over-and-over on this. I pray this will not bring harm to MJ or his family.
A few questions I pose that have immediately come to mind:
1)How reputable/valid is the magazine and the spokesperson(s) involved in the business dealings? Have you met them face-to-face?
2)Who is the target audience? Really? And, is that target audience receptive? What does the magazine hope to gain by it? Is it merely to increase sales/revenue? At the expense of whom?
3)What, ultimately, is the ulterior motive in this venture? What does the magazine hope to gain?
One must not forget that we need to look deeper than the surface to gain a correct perspective.
4)Will any and all exchange of money be transparent? Will there be checks and balances in place so that no mishandling occurs? Frankly, that is the only legitimate fashion in which to conduct business of this nature.
5)Does a legal contract exist giving the author full reign over their piece---meaning that the author will have full rights to check and revise any corrections/edits made before print deadline?
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Screw you. This is selling out on Michael and i will have no part of it. I am done.
But remember what goes around comes around IMO
:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
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WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That is not Michael-like either...
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I am very very sad about this. :( , but I know as a leader you have to make hard calls and decisions, and allowing members to attack the leader undermines the very existence of this forum.
After I read your post, I wanted to make a comment. I know that you're sad but something you wrote came to my attention. You wrote that there is a leader and members on the forum. I wouldn't like to name Souza as a leader. She is the admin of the forum but also a member of this community. I do not see anyone as a leader. Every each of us are equal on this forum no matter what our status is. Just wanted to state my opinion about this. And big MJ HUGS for you if you're still feeling sad. xox
Thanks to you and all4loveandbelieve. We probably all need a group hug! Every time these eruptions happen and members go, it is upsetting. I guess it's just all human nature, and the challenges of structure and organization. Sorry for not using the correct word, admin rather than leader. In my mind they're pretty much the same. I've worked with Pastors, directors, coordinators, bosses, supervisers, and I guess I've always just lumped them all into leadership, which to me is a generic word. Everywhere in life there is always chain of command, it's a necessity, or things fall into disarray. Yes I agree we're all equal as people and investigators of the hoax.
I do understand what you're saying. But I just disagree that there is no chain of command on this forum. Being an admin or mod doesn't mean that people can command us or can be our leaders. When I wrote "we're all equal", I meant we are all the same no matter what our status are. Noone is taking orders from noone here. In business issue it is right that there is chain of command but on a forum, no there is not. Anyways, this is not the issue we need to talk about. Just wanted to state my opinion about it. I respect your opinion as well. Hope you're feeling better today sweety. Love You and sending you big big HUGS. :)
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I am done with this. The guy is going to do an article on the subject with or without our help. I can either send in the article, or let him write a piece himself and he can use whatever he wants from the blog, the index or the forum. Even though he can't literally quote it, he can use the info and no one on here can do something about it. That last option seems very tempting. Everyone happy, because Souza didn't send in an article. But don't come complaining if you don't agree with what he wrote, if this magazine will come out (something we are not even sure about).
From now on I will not be involved in anything anymore. I will maintain this site, post my own findings and that's it. I am simply baffled by some reactions.
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If, as SD suggests, this magazine is a go-nowhere enterprise then I guess in the end it will be much ado about nothing. I'm kinda middle-of-the-fence on this one. I don't damn Souza for doing it. Likewise, I don't damn those who oppose it. As with almost every discussion on this forum, there are multiple points of view.
That's it SD, I am sick and tired of your negativity, lies and arrogance on this forum. I am not spending hours a day on this to get stabbed in the back by members like you. You are out. Seems like they totally agree with you on .net, so I guess you should resume posting there.
I disagree with SD being told "you are out." Feel free to think otherwise, but that's my opinion. Yes, Souza, you take on a lot to run this site. I'm not overlooking that. But to suggest that you are the same as anyone else here is not exactly true when you can de-activate someone just because you've had enough of them. There are a few people I'd rather not see on this site but I can't just say, "Okay, I'm done with you!" and make it so. SD has been one of the biggest contributors of analytical information in this hoax. You have put a lot of sweat and tears into this forum but I'd argue that SD has probably spent hours a day here, as well. So how is it that you're being "stabbed in the back" for all your hard work, but SD isn't? I don't see how anything she posted to you in this thread is any more severe or personally attacking than what you said in your parting post. And I also think what anybody chooses to post on another forum is their business. Anybody else can choose to go there and take up the argument, or not. That's the beauty (and peril) of the internet.
Do I have an appreciation for SD? Yes, I do so you might say I'm biased. But I have an appreciation for you, too, Souza. On this one, I just think you let your emotions combined with your admin rights get the better of you.
Agree with you. SD shouldn't have banned. Sometimes we all get into arguments with some people on the forum. But we have no chance to say "ok I'm done with you" and ban the person from the forum. Being an admin souldn't give you the chance of banning people when they come against you and make negative comments that doesn't please you. And in this issue I do not believe that Souza was backstabbed by SD. If SD didn't write anything on this forum but directly went to the .net and wrote what she thought about this issue and Souza, that would be backstabbing. But she directly wrote what she thought about the issue on this forum. She stated her opinion. So how can it be backstabbing? I do agree with you PJ4MJ that Souza unfortunately let her emotions combined with her admin rights get the better of her.
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I still want to know about the money issue..... :?
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I still want to know about the money issue..... :?
There is no money issue anymore. I just mailed the guy that he can write his own article and that he can use the info from this website if he wants without quoting it. I am done with the backstabbing, the `Souza is a powertripping dictator´ and name calling.
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I still want to know about the money issue..... :?
Sorry but who cares about the money? we can collect the money among us if we want to make a donation. do we need someone else to pay it to us? All I care is Michael's safety and that's it.
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For those who think the info on this site is dangerous for Mike, I have news for your. This forum is public and had over a million unique visitors in 2010. So in that case you should rethink posting anything on here.
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I still want to know about the money issue..... :?
There is no money issue anymore. I just mailed the guy that he can write his own article and that he can use the info from this website if he wants without quoting it. I am done with the backstabbing, the `Souza is a powertripping dictator´ and name calling.
Nobody is backstabbing you Souza. If it is backstabbing when people tell their opinion about your behaviour then it is. I do respect you and consider you as a friend but it doesn't mean that I'm not going to say anything when I see something wrong. If you want us to shut our mouths up and keep it to ourselves all the time, sorry but that seems impossible to me. Let people tell what they think. It is not backstabbing or calling you names.
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I don't know what to say to you Souza to make you feel better. I know you trusted your decision. I know a lot of us trusted you too. I feel bad- we all do that this divided us all so much. Quite another test. They keep befalling us lately.
I guess we'll just have to wait now and see what becomes of the article/magazine.
Truth is that we ARE known about. Anyone who wants info can come to us...
I just am grateful that you had the idea to make this site for us to join together in L.O.V.E. and hope we can find a way back to that, because with the trial coming we will be tested as never before.
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I still want to know about the money issue..... :?
Sorry but who cares about the money? we can collect the money among us if we want to make a donation. do we need someone else to pay it to us? All I care is Michael's safety and that's it.
I care, obviously. Thats why i asked. You miss the point.
Souza has addressed the issue now, and thats all i wanted. I didnt ask for sarcasm and your own opinions on the matter, PureLove.
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I still want to know about the money issue..... :?
There is no money issue anymore. I just mailed the guy that he can write his own article and that he can use the info from this website if he wants without quoting it. I am done with the backstabbing, the `Souza is a powertripping dictator´ and name calling.
Nobody is backstabbing you Souza. If it is backstabbing when people tell their opinion about your behaviour then it is. I do respect you and consider you as a friend but it doesn't mean that I'm not going to say anything when I see something wrong. If you want us to shut our mouths up and keep it to ourselves all the time, sorry but that seems impossible to me. Let people tell what they think. It is not backstabbing or calling you names.
Go and read what has been written on the other forum PureLove and tell me if that is respectful in your eyes. Like I said, I am done with this and with the accusations towards me. The guy can do his article the way he wants. I will not send him anything at all but I will tell him I have no problems with using anything I wrote. Don't expect anything from me the next time and don't get mad at ME when he writes stuff you don't agree with. I tried to get everyone involved to at least have a shot at controlling it ourselves, but whatever I do, it is never the right thing in the eyes of the members.
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i can see a lot of pot calling the kettle black here :shock: where has everyone been getting their information about all things michael since he exploded on the stage its called media and everyone twists the facts to suit them self even with this hoax the media is still providing the clues :geek: so what do you do you turn the tables play them at their own game :idea: is that not what michael and the rest of his cast are doing :?: michael once said sony underestimated him now it looks like many here are :cry: this issue has been simmering for a few days now long enough for the genius known as michael jackson to be fully aware of all possiblities on any media exsposure how are we suppose to get the real message of this hoax out to a wider audience without media :?: ;ets bring the love back and stop judging peoples opinions that do not always agree with our own .its all for L.O.V.E
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I still want to know about the money issue..... :?
There is no money issue anymore. I just mailed the guy that he can write his own article and that he can use the info from this website if he wants without quoting it. I am done with the backstabbing, the `Souza is a powertripping dictator´ and name calling.
Nobody is backstabbing you Souza. If it is backstabbing when people tell their opinion about your behaviour then it is. I do respect you and consider you as a friend but it doesn't mean that I'm not going to say anything when I see something wrong. If you want us to shut our mouths up and keep it to ourselves all the time, sorry but that seems impossible to me. Let people tell what they think. It is not backstabbing or calling you names.
Go and read what has been written on the other forum PureLove and tell me if that is respectful in your eyes. Like I said, I am done with this and with the accusations towards me. The guy can do his article the way he wants. I will not send him anything at all but I will tell him I have no problems with using anything I wrote. Don't expect anything from me the next time and don't get mad at ME when he writes stuff you don't agree with. I tried to get everyone involved to at least have a shot at controlling it ourselves, but whatever I do, it is never the right thing in the eyes of the members.
Well actually I wrote that your post was amazing that you were going to send him. It was a great job without including NWO issue. You can not please everyone. So maybe it is better this way. I do not have a membership on the net. I haven't read the things that were written there. I'm so sorry to hear that hun. I thought you were talking about the things that were written on this forum. I'm taking my words back then. Also I'm taking my words back that you did wrong to ban SD as I didn't know what she was writing on the other forum. I'm so sorry to hear what you're going through. Big HUGS for you too.
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I do not agree with Souza doing this without consultation with other forum administrators and members. If we do not agree as a whole on this, division is created and Michael's message is about unity and bringing us together. Souza has not been elected as our spokesperson and does not speak for Michael, me or anyone else. Souza turned my post original post around with a rude response and calling me judgmental when I was disagreeing with her, pointing out things "we" should consider, and possible outcomes of taking this action. There is no "love" in her posts to myself and others, who disagree with her actions. There is disrespect, rudeness, cruelty , and dismissal, and many members continue to ignore this behaviour and attitude which I find very upsetting.
Souza's posted a draft of her first article in the thread; you must realize that the entire time she was arguing with me, she had already created that article. In other words, she was never asking for anyone's opinion on any proposed articles at all...this was straight up manipulation. She had already decided what she was doing and had actually already written the first article for the Wonderwall Magazine.
I don't care if some members believe that the article is well written (not all members do though but I will not name names) or any of the other accolades some forum members are bestowing on her; she has lied, manipulated and deceived us all once again. Members of this forum are afraid to speak their mind honestly, as they have witnessed the abuse that occurs, if you don't agree with Souza or the group; the ridicule, ganging up, dismissal, rudeness etc and then eventual banning or being told to leave. This isn't "thinking for yourself" this is being bullied and dictated to. Leaving the forum means no longer being a member of the community and feeling alone and excluded when so many others don't believe Michael is alive. This is not right nor just.
Souza has admitted to other deceptions/manipulations and just because you admit to that doesn't excuse it. She has made at least one fake account on the forum to play with people and "show how easily they believe in fakes", she was aware of at least one other fake accounts made by a member on twitter and with her blessing, she received information from an anonymous informer, who directed her research and beliefs which she then shoves down all of our throats as the only truth, whether we agree with her or not. All of this does reflect on someone's character and many of those who have written about their experiences with Souza, are being labelled as at fault. When the fault actually lies with the person in the centre of all this discord, Souza herself.
Many members have left or been banned from the site, there is something wrong here. When are we going to say enough is enough and be tolerant of others views, treating each other with respect, caring and understanding? When are we going to stand up to any authoritarian figure, when their behaviour is not acceptable and when are we going to stop being afraid of anyone and back up those who are thinking for themselves? This forum is a reflection of a larger world view and where is the love really because I can't see it anymore. It's just hollow words written on a screen and actions are speaking much louder. We are failing Michael, each other, and ourselves.
Thank you SD for saying exactly how I feel, and I'm sure there are others also who feel this way. The part underlined in red sums up where I am on this forum right now. I no longer post for this very reason, because I get tired of being attacked if I have different views than Souza and others. So I am now just a lurker, I love being here, and being among others who love MJ and feel that this could be a special place... and I don't want to leave. But I feel in order to do that I have to keep my opinions to myself for fear of getting banned or ridiculed. This is not meant to hurt anyone...it's just how I feel and believe me I have had my feelings hurt a few times on this forum, but I put a smile on my face and try always to treat others as I want to be treated! It's all for LOVE!!
LOVE & Blessings to All :)
Keep the FAITH!!
Michael....I LOVE You More!!
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I guess, no one read my post! Now I know how Souza feels. I am reading, that everyone is bickering again. I guess it is useless to write post into this forum. I guess people do not like posts that are about love.. They would love posts that are about fights. I guess It is not worth it. So hope you will resolve this issue.. Blessings.
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I still want to know about the money issue..... :?
There is no money issue anymore. I just mailed the guy that he can write his own article and that he can use the info from this website if he wants without quoting it. I am done with the backstabbing, the `Souza is a powertripping dictator´ and name calling.
Nobody is backstabbing you Souza. If it is backstabbing when people tell their opinion about your behaviour then it is. I do respect you and consider you as a friend but it doesn't mean that I'm not going to say anything when I see something wrong. If you want us to shut our mouths up and keep it to ourselves all the time, sorry but that seems impossible to me. Let people tell what they think. It is not backstabbing or calling you names.
Go and read what has been written on the other forum PureLove and tell me if that is respectful in your eyes. Like I said, I am done with this and with the accusations towards me. The guy can do his article the way he wants. I will not send him anything at all but I will tell him I have no problems with using anything I wrote. Don't expect anything from me the next time and don't get mad at ME when he writes stuff you don't agree with. I tried to get everyone involved to at least have a shot at controlling it ourselves, but whatever I do, it is never the right thing in the eyes of the members.
Well actually I wrote that your post was amazing that you were going to send him. It was a great job without including NWO issue. You can not please everyone. So maybe it is better this way. I do not have a membership on the net. I haven't read the things that were written there. I'm so sorry to hear that hun. I thought you were talking about the things that were written on this forum. I'm taking my words back then. Also I'm taking my words back that you did wrong to ban SD as I didn't know what she was writing on the other forum. I'm so sorry to hear what you're going through. Big HUGS for you too.
Souza you can win some or you can lose some. Now being backstabbed that is a NO NO> That's why I wrote my post. We should be more united, but instead we are fighting. Opinions matter, but as discussed as adults, not badmouthing. we did not know that SD was backstabbing you and for that I am sorry. Like they say watch out for karma it will come back to bite your ass. God bless.
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“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you." --Matthew 7:1-2
http://www.cfirecm.com/QandA/Judge%20No ... Judged.htm (http://www.cfirecm.com/QandA/Judge%20Not%20Lest%20Ye%20Be%20Judged.htm)
(http://www.clker.com/cliparts/b/4/4/e/1220546127813249574pedu_Smile.svg.hi.png)
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Members of this forum are afraid to speak their mind honestly, as they have witnessed the abuse that occurs, if you don't agree with Souza or the group; the ridicule, ganging up, dismissal, rudeness etc and then eventual banning or being told to leave. This isn't "thinking for yourself" this is being bullied and dictated to. Leaving the forum means no longer being a member of the community and feeling alone and excluded when so many others don't believe Michael is alive. This is not right nor just.
Thank you SD for saying exactly how I feel, and I'm sure there are others also who feel this way. The part underlined in red sums up where I am on this forum right now. I no longer post for this very reason, because I get tired of being attacked if I have different views than Souza and others. So I am now just a lurker, I love being here, and being among others who love MJ and feel that this could be a special place... and I don't want to leave. But I feel in order to do that I have to keep my opinions to myself for fear of getting banned or ridiculed. This is not meant to hurt anyone...it's just how I feel and believe me I have had my feelings hurt a few times on this forum, but I put a smile on my face and try always to treat others as I want to be treated! It's all for LOVE!!
LOVE & Blessings to All :)
Keep the FAITH!!
Michael....I LOVE You More!!
I have to disagree. I was opposed to Souza many many times. When I find something wrong or when I agree or disagree, I directly write it no matter if she's a mod or an admin BUT I was never ever banned. People do not get banned just because of opposing to the idea. But being rude and judgemental can not be acceptable. So I do not get why some people are afraid to say what they really think. As long as you do not post rude comments, I don't believe that you would be banned. There're many people on this forum writing many different theories, we all write our own opinions. I'm sorry to hear that your feelings were hurt but I believe that you should keep on posting. We all get into arguments sometimes but all families have arguments, right? No need to stop posting in my opinion. Blessings...
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“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you." --Matthew 7:1-2
http://www.cfirecm.com/QandA/Judge%20No ... Judged.htm (http://www.cfirecm.com/QandA/Judge%20Not%20Lest%20Ye%20Be%20Judged.htm)
(http://www.clker.com/cliparts/b/4/4/e/1220546127813249574pedu_Smile.svg.hi.png)
In another word what goes around comes around.
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“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you." --Matthew 7:1-2
http://www.cfirecm.com/QandA/Judge%20No ... Judged.htm (http://www.cfirecm.com/QandA/Judge%20Not%20Lest%20Ye%20Be%20Judged.htm)
(http://www.clker.com/cliparts/b/4/4/e/1220546127813249574pedu_Smile.svg.hi.png)
In another word what goes around comes around.
(http://illuminations.nctm.org/Lessons/MathBingo/MathBingo-Winner.jpg)
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“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you." --Matthew 7:1-2
http://www.cfirecm.com/QandA/Judge%20No ... Judged.htm (http://www.cfirecm.com/QandA/Judge%20Not%20Lest%20Ye%20Be%20Judged.htm)
(http://www.clker.com/cliparts/b/4/4/e/1220546127813249574pedu_Smile.svg.hi.png)
In another word what goes around comes around.
(http://illuminations.nctm.org/Lessons/MathBingo/MathBingo-Winner.jpg)
Yamboo this I meant for SD NOT FOR SOUZA.. AFTER I READ ALL OF WHAT SHE HAS DONE, IT WILL COME BACK TO HER. SOUZA DOES NOT DESERVE ALL OF THIS. I WROTE A NICE AND CLEAR POST BUT NO ONE LISTENS.
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“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you." --Matthew 7:1-2
http://www.cfirecm.com/QandA/Judge%20No ... Judged.htm (http://www.cfirecm.com/QandA/Judge%20Not%20Lest%20Ye%20Be%20Judged.htm)
(http://www.clker.com/cliparts/b/4/4/e/1220546127813249574pedu_Smile.svg.hi.png)
In another word what goes around comes around.
(http://illuminations.nctm.org/Lessons/MathBingo/MathBingo-Winner.jpg)
Yamboo this I meant for SD NOT FOR SOUZA.. AFTER I READ ALL OF WHAT SHE HAS DONE, IT WILL COME BACK TO HER. SOUZA DOES NOT DESERVE ALL OF THIS. I WROTE A NICE AND CLEAR POST BUT NO ONE LISTENS.
I know. I think we as beings with reasoning are capable to extend a hand and find a way to co-exist without ending up divided. There is always a solution but we must have patience. Nobody is perfect and we make mistakes. It hurts to be ridiculed.
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“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you." --Matthew 7:1-2
http://www.cfirecm.com/QandA/Judge%20No ... Judged.htm (http://www.cfirecm.com/QandA/Judge%20Not%20Lest%20Ye%20Be%20Judged.htm)
(http://www.clker.com/cliparts/b/4/4/e/1220546127813249574pedu_Smile.svg.hi.png)
In another word what goes around comes around.
(http://illuminations.nctm.org/Lessons/MathBingo/MathBingo-Winner.jpg)
Yamboo this I meant for SD NOT FOR SOUZA.. AFTER I READ ALL OF WHAT SHE HAS DONE, IT WILL COME BACK TO HER. SOUZA DOES NOT DESERVE ALL OF THIS. I WROTE A NICE AND CLEAR POST BUT NO ONE LISTENS.
I know. I think we as beings with reasoning are capable to extend a hand and find a way to co-exist without ending up divided. There is always a solution but we must have patience. Nobody is perfect and we make mistakes. It hurts to be ridiculed.
i agree with you
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I will lock this one as well. On with the investigation, done with the drama.