Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators
Welcome! => MJDHI Announcements => Topic started by: *Mo* on December 10, 2010, 03:19:40 AM
-
As you all have noticed, several threads have been locked today. I, as admin, really hope that the locking of these threads won't discourage our members of stating their opinion.
Every dispute has its pros and cons, and all these pros and cons can be valuable. A dispute simply can't be solved by silencing the participants, there are other and better ways to accomplish that.
The locking of these threads might suggest that there's no space for Freedom of Speech on these boards, and therefore I dissociate myself from the lockings.
-
Thankyou for that information. God bless you.
-
I hope the tornado didn't leave too much destruction in its path. :( :) Can we rebuild?
-
I saw the locked threads.
I don't understand how this site works......Souza can lock a thread without consulting the other admin?
If we are here to investigate in ANY possible form Michael's hoax death (which sometimes to my despair i start thinking it's not a hoax) than I agree with MO - only by securing the freedom of speaking we can accomplish our goal.
But maybe I am wrong, IDK......
What do you all think?
-
The threads I locked were all off topic and out of hand. I as an admin want the arguing to stop, not the investigation. Everyone is entitled to voice their opinions, but this time threads needed to be locked to get the focus back on the actual investigation, instead of a forum war that isn't helping anyone.
If people want to investigate certain things, new threads can be opened where we can investigate in a normal and respectful way.
By starting this thread you are again inviting people to divide and argue. That has nothing to do with freedom of speech, that is simply bullying the bad admin that locked the threads and wants to get a normal atmosphere back to this board. Those threads were all infected.
-
I just don't understand you Souza and MO.
If you have different opinions now why don't you choose only ONE administrator to this site ?!
You say you want investigation not fight but yet you and MO started the most visible fight here lately.
I hated when you agreed with each other in everything in the past but I hate it more now, when you disagree with each other so much.
This is not a normal situation between the admins of a site.
I came to think you are only playing here.......
We deserve an explanation
-
Explanation for what? Mo and I disagree on a lot of things. I stand by what I have posted all along, Mo has another opinion. That is fine and she has the right to have another opinion. But I also have the right to comment when I don't agree. There is not one admin, there are two. I can't help that and Mo can't help that. It is how it is, but I want the fighting on here to stop.
I locked the threads for exactly this reason, because here we go again. I want to continue the investigation, instead of having to deal with wars in every thread. But apparently people want to keep fighting and arguing. Fine, go ahead, but I will focus on other things from now on if y'all don't mind.
One request: keep the fights, disagreements and whatever else in this thread, so that other threads can be discussed like they are used to being discussed.
-
This is not how this forum should work..
If we have a problem the best way to solve it is NOT trying to hide it by locking thread and taking away the freedom of speech.
Thank god we are all different, we all have different thoughts and personalities and yes we have freedom of speech, locking thread because YOU think that the discussion has to stop is what I call " trying to silence people" … Nobody attacks you Souza, nobody jumps on you Souza and nobody asks you to leave Souza.. BUT if some issues were brought to light WHY we can't discuss them? Who are you to say that they are not important? In the thread opened by Navibl YOU brought up again the thisisalmostit and Bob issue and you felt free to attack ME -and you allowed the other members to do it as well- just because I expressed my opinion on that subject. Who are you to say that the Bob issue is not important and it should remain private? Were you the one who preached the equality in this forum? and then you feel free to hide something like that… that, I repeat, IS important… the hoax purpose was enlighten to you by Bob and then confirmed by TS… who are they? Two anonymous members, and that is NOT important for you? is not important that members KNOW what is really going on?
You are an admin yes, and I respect that, but that doesn't give you the power to take decision for everybody.
-
I don't think I was ever fighting on this forum :? .
I understand you and Mo have disagreements and maybe you don't realise this is TOO visible and weird to the others... happeneds when you are directly involved in something.....
Yet something is not right with this picture and I can't put my finger on it now :?
-
This is not how this forum should work..
If we have a problem the best way to solve it is NOT trying to hide it by locking thread and taking away the freedom of speech.
Thank god we are all different, we all have different thoughts and personalities and yes we have freedom of speech, locking thread because YOU think that the discussion has to stop is what I call " trying to silence people" … Nobody attacks you Souza, nobody jumps on you Souza and nobody asks you to leave Souza.. BUT if some issues were brought to light WHY we can't discuss them? Who are you to say that they are not important? In the thread opened by Navibl YOU brought up again the thisisalmostit and Bob issue and you felt free to attack ME -and you allowed the other members to do it as well- just because I expressed my opinion on that subject. Who are you to say that the Bob issue is not important and it should remain private? Were you the one who preached the equality in this forum? and then you feel free to hide something like that… that, I repeat, IS important… the hoax purpose was enlighten to you by Bob and then confirmed by TS… who are they? Two anonymous members, and that is NOT important for you? is not important that members KNOW what is really going on?
You are an admin yes, and I respect that, but that doesn't give you the power to take decision for everybody.
I have to ask again: who the hell is Bob :lol: ?
I'll go read the locked thread....
-
It gives me the power to stop wars when threads get out of hand, as I have also done in the past when members attacked each other. Admins are no exception.
You are not open to anything I say puff, so there is realy no need in arguing with you. You already made up your mind about the 'bob' issue and imply that I take everything everyone says for truth. That way you are undermining my ability to think for myself. That is your opinion and that's fine by me, but I have another one.
If you and Mo feel the urge to discuss the 'Bob' issue and the TS issue, then open a new thread about it, but don't attack every decision or post I make just because you think the issue is so important that it needs to be discussed in every thread.
-
This is not how this forum should work..
If we have a problem the best way to solve it is NOT trying to hide it by locking thread and taking away the freedom of speech.
Thank god we are all different, we all have different thoughts and personalities and yes we have freedom of speech, locking thread because YOU think that the discussion has to stop is what I call " trying to silence people" … Nobody attacks you Souza, nobody jumps on you Souza and nobody asks you to leave Souza.. BUT if some issues were brought to light WHY we can't discuss them? Who are you to say that they are not important? In the thread opened by Navibl YOU brought up again the thisisalmostit and Bob issue and you felt free to attack ME -and you allowed the other members to do it as well- just because I expressed my opinion on that subject. Who are you to say that the Bob issue is not important and it should remain private? Were you the one who preached the equality in this forum? and then you feel free to hide something like that… that, I repeat, IS important… the hoax purpose was enlighten to you by Bob and then confirmed by TS… who are they? Two anonymous members, and that is NOT important for you? is not important that members KNOW what is really going on?
You are an admin yes, and I respect that, but that doesn't give you the power to take decision for everybody.
I have to ask again: who the hell is Bob :lol: ?
I'll go read the locked thread....
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16148&start=225#p277465 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16148&start=225#p277465)
-
Thank you Puff :lol:
-
I don't know everything that happens behind the scenes, but I just want to say that this time I am somehow witness that the locking of some threads (especially one of them) is the right choice. I came to witness that there were and still are people here who play games and the majority of people don't even notice. If I didn't see it with my eyes I would probably say too that this is a shady movement done by the administrator. But no. This time I can really say that it's nothing shady with the locking of that thread. It's not the subject of the thread itself or the discussion, but what happened there and behind it. Some noticed, some not.
What I can say is that nothing lasts so long until it's demasked. Just give them rope and they will hang themselves.
-
It gives me the power to stop wars when threads get out of hand, as I have also done in the past when members attacked each other. Admins are no exception.
You are not open to anything I say puff, so there is realy no need in arguing with you. You already made up your mind about the 'bob' issue and imply that I take everything everyone says for truth. That way you are undermining my ability to think for myself. That is your opinion and that's fine by me, but I have another one.
If you and Mo feel the urge to discuss the 'Bob' issue and the TS issue, then open a new thread about it, but don't attack every decision or post I make just because you think the issue is so important that it needs to be discussed in every thread.
Oh no Souza, don't forget that I was the one who followed and supported TS, if I've changed my mind probably there is a reason why, or not..?
and I can't call what you have stopped a 'war', it was quite obvious that people would have objected and rejected what Mo revealed.... it's not something that happens everyday.... Don't twist my words please, I didn't say that you take everything everyone says for truth, I think you are smarter than that... but on the contrary I could say that someone could have fooled you (Mo and Souza), that is not possible? I think it could be very plausible! But you seem to look at this possibility as sacrilege! Do you think that 'the sources on the internet' used for your blogs are truth..? Not everything written on the web is facts and truth...
-
Sometimes I think nothing written on the web it's truth.
-
@puff, the sources for the blogs are anything on the net OTHER than anonymous people. The sources are articles, books, websites etc. and were written after it was researched for weeks. Not because an anonymous person or TS said it was true. If none of it would have made sense, I would have never posted any of it. I have discussed the fact that we could have been fooled many times with Mo and I always kept that possibility open but until this day nothing has convinced me that his words were for another purpose than simply to inform and the same goes for TS. If both are frauds and someone can show me, that's fine. But as long as I have questions that can't be answered I am entitled to have another opinion than you have. You weren't there and you also know one side of the story so what surprises me is how you only agree with Mo in anything she says, and you are not open at all to anything I say. Isn't that a little strange when you say that everything needs to be investigated? Wouldn't it in that case be logic if you also contacted me about the issue? Most definitely when you see I disagree. That should make you, as an investigator, curious as to why I still stand by my points. You are in my MSN list, so it's easy to contact me. But as long as you will dismiss anything I say, I don't see the need in arguing any longer.
-
All this reminds me of that funny TMZ video about controversy between Akon and 2ep
-
@puff, the sources for the blogs are anything on the net OTHER than anonymous people. The sources are articles, books, websites etc. and were written after it was researched for weeks. Not because an anonymous person or TS said it was true. If none of it would have made sense, I would have never posted any of it. I have discussed the fact that we could have been fooled many times with Mo and I always kept that possibility open but until this day nothing has convinced me that his words were for another purpose than simply to inform and the same goes for TS. If both are frauds and someone can show me, that's fine. But as long as I have questions that can't be answered I am entitled to have another opinion than you have. You weren't there and you also know one side of the story so what surprises me is how you only agree with Mo in anything she says, and you are not open at all to anything I say. Isn't that a little strange when you say that everything needs to be investigated? Wouldn't it in that case be logic if you also contacted me about the issue? Most definitely when you see I disagree. That should make you, as an investigator, curious as to why I still stand by my points. You are in my MSN list, so it's easy to contact me. But as long as you will dismiss anything I say, I don't see the need in arguing any longer.
Well, as far as I read you posted also YOUR side of that story, or didn't you? So I could easily read both sides of that story...
BTW I was not talking about only the 'V for Vendetta' blog, and that bob didn't give you only hints for those blogs, I know that...and again, how could someone debunk something that is based on assumptions? You could fit in this story everything, as you can see.... but WHO knows that is the truth? I could say that Mj hoaxed his death to save the world, but I could easily say that he hoaxed his death for some PRIVATE serious reasons that have nothing to do with save the world and awakening the humanity...
We can only make assumptions and suppositions but we should not act like what we preach is the truth, because only one person here knows that truth and it's Michael Jackson himself...
-
We can only make assumptions and suppositions but we should not act like what we preach is the truth, because only one person here knows that truth and it's Michael Jackson himself...
YEP..... the only problem is that he is not here...... or is he ?!
-
I don't believe, in light of the recent revelations, that you can blame anyone for having a healthy skepticism of certain members who are clearly exhibiting peculiar behavior.
How do you expect members to react when those at the top are acting as poor examples themselves?
And, let's not forget that the portal of entry for this pervasive "infection" infiltrated at the top....so let's not inappropriately blame the faithful members who wish to wipe this infection out!
What I would like to know is why you feel the need to protect certain members who are experiencing some "heat"???? Let these individuals speak for themselves.....their characteristic change in tone, writing and number of posts are definitely being noticed and it's clearly evident that people are seeing through the facade. Coming to their aid and locking posts is indicative of something shady and defies the true principle of truth finding. Unfortunately, we are not only faced with digging for the facts concerning the MJ hoax but now have to deal with a forum hoax. It is simply quite sad and disheartening. However, demonstrating control in the manner you have is only exacerbating the negative issues at hand.
A good friend of mine recently told me that "empires rise and empires fall". I cannot help but think the same of the forum. I suspect if this ill behavior and division is perpetrated much longer we will be witness to the total collapse of the forum. Clearly the foundation of trust, cohesion, and respect has been fractured. In my humble opinion, that will not begin to repair itself until those at the top mend their differences and the truth, in its entirety, is exposed.
.............and may I remind you that it is the truth that shall set you free.
-
I agree with those points michaelsupporter but how can any of those arguing prove their version is the correct one? And how can the truth ever really be known when we're talking about private discussions between individuals, we're back to the whole "he said, she said" thing. Certain decisions were made by certain people about what we would be told and how, and I don't know if confidence can ever really be restored when we know that this became less an investigation site and more a mind-manipulation exercise. If indeed there is now a forum hoax going on then I'm already very bored with it, it's nowhere near as fascinating or exciting as the actual hoax (sorry to the "players" if that's what they are but it is boring!). Thankfully we have plenty of members who are here for the right reasons and who have retained their sense of humour and common sense. A lot of people might be worried about the site folding, that doesn't mean we stop believing in the hoax and it doesn't mean we can't find each other elsewhere and keep the investigation going. All this bad feeling is poisonous and I have no idea what new people visiting the site must think at the behaviour on display. I personally find the hypocrisy of certain members disgraceful. No matter how many threads are locked these discussions and this mistrust isn't going to go away. You reap what you sow as they say.
-
Plus, now (in hindsight) it does seem highly prophetic that BJ posted a thread entitled "a hoax within a hoax".
.....................leads me to believe that these recent events:
(1) were planned
(2) and a group of saboteurs exist
-
And the Hoax within a Hoax thread has been locked for being off-topic(even though I don't really think it was). Drama anyone?! Saboteurs now that would make it less boring! ;)
-
I don't normally get involved in this type of discussion but I have to ask at what point do we say enough is enough? I very much doubt that there will ever enough 'proof' to satisfy everyone completely. Do we not need to find our own truth? The way things are going is a never-ending spiral and we have to decide at what point we let go and move on. Personally I don't care what the truth is about this site, all I do know is that we should all be here for Michael and we should be behaving like a family. This forum is so valuable and the focus needs to be about a bigger truth. I do not feel at all that we have been misled and with the masses of information that has been brought here we are able to come to our own conclusions no matter where or how the information got here.
I agree completely that everyone has the right to express their opinion but can we agree that this is a never-ending debate that is distracting many from the true purpose of why we are here. There is a big lesson to be learned here which is, when to let things go for the greater good. What ever the 'truth' is and whether it is possible for it to be 'proven' without any shadow of a doubt is highly unlikely so, Where is this going?
The only truth that really matters is our own, as individuals. We don't know for absolute fact what is 'true' and what is not. So lets move on from the origins/intentions of creation debate and see what we have really got here, which if we open our eyes is actually very strong and has strengthened because of the guidance of TS/tiai as well as Mo and Souza and many others, whoever they are behind the username. We are a family and the biggest lesson of all is to be guided by our own hearts, not our brain. It's the brain that should be supporting our hearts, not completely overriding it. Our own heart is the only thing that really knows, so lets be open to it and believe that it can be trusted. Can we please agree as a family that we are here for L.O.V.E and start living from the HEART and in the NOW. Even if there are negative agendas going on here then we can join together and rise above it. It does not need to bring us down, the exposure of it could actually help bring us together and give us strength as I'm sure you will all agree that the majority of members here are of good and honest heart. This is where our strength lies, lets use it, together.xx
-
You speak the truth, the majority of members do seem to be here for the right reasons and have good hearts, common sense, intelligence and intuition. In reality all that's been damaged here are the reputations of certain members, through their behaviour. Whether it's for real or not is debatable but as they are high-profile members it reflects on the whole site, even though most of us are here for Michael and to investigate the hoax. So if we accept that certain members will no longer have the influence they once had and the authority they once enjoyed and focus instead on the reason why we came together we should be fine. Power corrupts on every level in society and while some may have abused their power and done damage it hasn't damaged the integrity of the majority. The only way to get past all these disussions is to ignore all this happened which isn't going to be easy or healthy but maybe keeping all the discussions about it in this thread as Souza suggested is the best option rather than having it discussed in numerous threads.
-
There is no forum hoax, this is simply a childish argument between individuals with personal issues. Me guilty as charged and this needs to stop. It doesn't belong here and it has no goal other than indeed a total destruction of the forum.
I don't expect anyone to trust me, I have never asked anyone to trust me and to trust me as a person would be strange since none of you know me. The majority of the members are adults and are very capable to make judgements themselves.
If that means people want to know the 'truth' then fine, go and ask because I have nothing to hide, but I won't discuss private conversations with anyone. If people want to discuss 'Bob' then make a new thread, but I will not participate in it. I have made a promise and I don't like to betray someone's trust.
So in order to get this board back on track I want to say the following:
Mo, I already posted in another thread that I respect you as an admin of this board and as an investigator. I think we should make a truce. We clearly disagree on a lot and that is ok. I don't see why that should give problems. You are allowed to voice your opinion, but you should also allow me and others to question your findings. Same goes the other way around. I apologize I attacked you personally, I shouldn't have done that and I should have stayed with the subject. I admitted that was wrong already in the thread, but hereby again in this one. Things are changed and you and I will not have the same relationship as we had before, but I think, as we are both adults, that we could at least try to treat each other better from now on. I can let this all behind me without grudge and I hope you will be able to do the same, so that we can continue this site we both worked so hard for the past year. It also is not fair towards the members if we would let this escalade until the forum is dead. It's a year of investigation by so many members and it would be a shame to let that all die.
I am prepared to start over and forget all the issues starting now.
-
I hope this time your offer of a truce is accepted Souza but considering you already tried to make peace and things turned even nastier I would be surprised if you get a positive response. We do appreciate you trying though, it would be nice to have some harmony again even if it's just you guys being civil to each other and not actually friendly.
-
I hope this time your offer of a truce is accepted Souza but considering you already tried to make peace and things turned even nastier I would be surprised if you get a positive response. We do appreciate you trying though, it would be nice to have some harmony again even if it's just you guys being civil to each other and not actually friendly.
I still am positive that the tide can be turned, but if not, at least I tried. I can't do more than that.
-
Souza: Mo, I already posted in another thread that I respect you as an admin of this board and as an investigator. I think we should make a truce. We clearly disagree on a lot and that is ok. I don't see why that should give problems. You are allowed to voice your opinion, but you should also allow me and others to question your findings. Same goes the other way around. I apologize I attacked you personally, I shouldn't have done that and I should have stayed with the subject. I admitted that was wrong already in the thread, but hereby again in this one. Things are changed and you and I will not have the same relationship as we had before, but I think, as we are both adults, that we could at least try to treat each other better from now on. I can let this all behind me without grudge and I hope you will be able to do the same, so that we can continue this site we both worked so hard for the past year. It also is not fair towards the members if we would let this escalade until the forum is dead. It's a year of investigation by so many members and it would be a shame to let that all die.
(http://www.emoticonos3d.com/General/Love/11_12_2.gif)
-
I feel like a goldfish in a bowl....swimming circles, circles, circles... :roll:
-
And the Hoax within a Hoax thread has been locked for being off-topic(even though I don't really think it was). Drama anyone?! Saboteurs now that would make it less boring! ;)
It was locked before I even got to comment and add my thoughts to it.
For reasons I will NOT disclose on here I believe the questions directed to the member in that thread were completley justified.If you would prefer a whole new thread dedicated to shifting out people only here to cause shit,trouble make,lie,lead people on,pretend,and generally lurk about hiding their true self behind a computer screen then I will comment in that instead.
It did go off topic the last few pages but tbh,it was aided by it's original author and I agree with voice/chloe/wyhs/Michaelsupporter/and anyone else who commented.
And yes...before anyone wants to bring it,I have reasons for what I am saying and it is also justified.
I think the people on here are getting a bit sick to death-excuse the pun- of the lies and fake people leading them on.There is enough drama going down within the actual hoax without sick minded people who have nothing better to do adding to it and I think calling these people out in an open thread is far better than everyone who has a suspision sending a PM and no one really knowing what the truth is.
I have no feelings on the TS one being locked really only that it has restricted people's freedom to contribute their thoughts to the pot about all that is going on on here.
I liked the forum before WW3 broke out/the chatroom was closed,and it would be nice as Souza said for the tide to turn again and it go back to peace and tranquillity HOWEVER I personally believe that will not happen unless everything as much as it can be is cleared up,and the people with less than good intentions are revealed and removed from the site.
Lastly I think some people on here need to stop getting so 'attached' to other members and resting their entire hopes for Michael and his life and well being on them.
You are sitting targets for the people who like to manipulate and play games.
If you insist on putting people on a pedestal you will forever be let down and dissapointed.
-
If this is going to go the same way as the other threads maybe we should lock this thread too :lol:
No, but in all seriousness if we don't solve or clear the air of what happened earlier we will just find other threads to argue and those will be locked too. I know that we are not trying to run away from these problems but locking doesn't seem to be working so lets try something else.
-
And the Hoax within a Hoax thread has been locked for being off-topic(even though I don't really think it was). Drama anyone?! Saboteurs now that would make it less boring! ;)
It was locked before I even got to comment and add my thoughts to it.
For reasons I will NOT disclose on here I believe the questions directed to the member in that thread were completley justified.If you would prefer a whole new thread dedicated to shifting out people only here to cause shit,trouble make,lie,lead people on,pretend,and generally lurk about hiding their true self behind a computer screen then I will comment in that instead.
It did go off topic the last few pages but tbh,it was aided by it's original author and I agree with voice/chloe/wyhs/Michaelsupporter/and anyone else who commented.
And yes...before anyone wants to bring it,I have reasons for what I am saying and it is also justified.
I think the people on here are getting a bit sick to death-excuse the pun- of the lies and fake people leading them on.There is enough drama going down within the actual hoax without sick minded people who have nothing better to do adding to it and I think calling these people out in an open thread is far better than everyone who has a suspision sending a PM and no one really knowing what the truth is.
I have no feelings on the TS one being locked really only that it has restricted people's freedom to contribute their thoughts to the pot about all that is going on on here.
I liked the forum before WW3 broke out/the chatroom was closed,and it would be nice as Souza said for the tide to turn again and it go back to peace and tranquillity HOWEVER I personally believe that will not happen unless everything as much as it can be is cleared up,and the people with less than good intentions are revealed and removed from the site.
Lastly I think some people on here need to stop getting so 'attached' to other members and resting their entire hopes for Michael and his life and well being on them.
You are sitting targets for the people who like to manipulate and play games.
If you insist on putting people on a pedestal you will forever be let down and dissapointed.
Funny you say this Sinderella... I wonder whether Diamonds are forever! I guess only real ones are!
I agree that...It should be interesting when all the fakes are uncovered... I am looking forward to the day!.... There will certainly be some surprises.... I can't wait!
Joker or Batman ... will see!
With L.O.V.E
-
It's amazing how we are so open to believe MJ faked his death, but so reluctant to believe the mental and psychological "machinery" that could have leaded to such an extraordinary possible hoax.......
I would like to ask everybody a question: do you think we made any progress in discovering the man we never knew?
-
You've gotta be kidding me.
-
It's amazing how we are so open to believe MJ faked his death, but so reluctant to believe the mental and psychological "machinery" that could have leaded to such an extraordinary possible hoax.......
I would like to ask everybody a question: do you think we made any progress in discovering the man we never knew?
Interesting question! There is not such a thing as a collective "WE" at the moment...my journey has taken me to interesting places and I beLIEve I can safely answer YES to your question.
With L.O.V.E
-
Locking threads means using power, ordinary members don't have.
It will be a problem imo, as long as there are two (are there?) administrators, who can't come to terms together which threads to lock and which not.
So I am glad there is at least one thread left, which is said to remain open. We shall see.
I wonder if TS is willing to create a new thread, as he must assume his thread being locked after some posters have answered - maybe controversial.
He writes such elaborate texts which can't be written in a minute and no matter who he is, even if he should be a troll or an Admin or whoever, I would miss his words and background information. Sooner or later readers would find out if he can be trusted, if given the chance to express their views and exchange opinions.
We have the situation now, as it is all of a sudden presented to us, that there is suspicion among the "higher ranks". It must have started somewhere. Some members are confused, as they are left 'in the dark', not really knowing what is going on behind the scenes. They ask themselves, has it got anything to do with the validity of the hoax idea or is it just personal vendetta, human nature. (The latter I am not interested in, but if if we have been mislead to believe in a hoax or 'tested', it would be more serious)
Not only have they been mentally strained by Michael's 'passing', all the confusion over the last months - and now they witness war and hate in a forum, where they hoped for finding a community, united in their one and only goal - truth about Michael Jackson's fate and his whereabouts, alive or dead (hopefully not) or in misery or whatever.
It just makes you wanna scream! :(
What is this all about? Trust is just an empty word?
The best is not to rely too much on others and their conclusions, especially when it comes to the world wide web, it may prove to be a virtual trap. Nobody forces anybody to believe anything, that's the good thing about it. We are all free to decide what to believe and what not. I think, we all still have to learn how to use our new 'freedom'.
-
It's amazing how we are so open to believe MJ faked his death, but so reluctant to believe the mental and psychological "machinery" that could have leaded to such an extraordinary possible hoax.......
I would like to ask everybody a question: do you think we made any progress in discovering the man we never knew?
Interesting question! There is not such a thing as a collective "WE" at the moment...my journey has taken me to interesting places and I beLIEve I can safely answer YES to your question.
With L.O.V.E
I think it's great if you think so. But did you ever think how you can verify your discoveries about the man we never knew? Because we all can make guesses about him, but how can we validate our guesses?
-
I am prepared to start over and forget all the issues starting now
I am very happy to read this.
This says a lot about you.
-
It's amazing how we are so open to believe MJ faked his death, but so reluctant to believe the mental and psychological "machinery" that could have leaded to such an extraordinary possible hoax.......
I would like to ask everybody a question: do you think we made any progress in discovering the man we never knew?
The man we never knew? who, Michael?
I have not read any post from Michael at all.
So, no, i can´t consider Michael to be "the man we never knew" since we have no idea if Michael is alive on the first place.
I woud like this nonsense trolling to stop, makes us look even more ridiculous.
-
@trustno1
I agree with you.
-
TII dvd - discover the man you never knew. If we believe in the hoax we must take this seriously
-
It's amazing how we are so open to believe MJ faked his death, but so reluctant to believe the mental and psychological "machinery" that could have leaded to such an extraordinary possible hoax.......
I would like to ask everybody a question: do you think we made any progress in discovering the man we never knew?
I don't really know what your trying to say here Gina
ATM,as far as the forum goes I don't think it is about progress in discovering the man the world never knew, it is about making the structure of the forum stable again,building up trust again- after the bombs being dropped on it. They have done a great deal of damage to people's trust and belief and what it doesn't need is members who aren't being honest making it worse.They are only aiding the division of his 'army'.Michael doesn't need his fans,friends,family,anyone who believes in him and all he is arguing and not being as strong as he needs them to be for him.
Funny you say this Sinderella... I wonder whether Diamonds are forever! I guess only real ones are!
I agree that...It should be interesting when all the fakes are uncovered... I am looking forward to the day!.... There will certainly be some surprises.... I can't wait!
Joker or Batman ... will see!
With L.O.V.E
Only the real ones my love...only the real ones.
It needs to happen sooner rather than later because the patience of the majority is running out.I'm pretty sure people would agree with me saying no one has time to waste on frauds.
As I said in my previous post I won't disclose it in a comment but there are people on here who need to leave it alone.
-
It's amazing how we are so open to believe MJ faked his death, but so reluctant to believe the mental and psychological "machinery" that could have leaded to such an extraordinary possible hoax.......
I would like to ask everybody a question: do you think we made any progress in discovering the man we never knew?
If making progress is about worshipping any sick mind coming to that forum and posting more cryptic than the previous one, then i'm not about making progress....
I'm fed up with fakers and bored people who have nothing better to do than get themselves some kind of life on the internet by using other people's trust, making them hope for a way to reach Michael...
-
What am I trying to say Sinderella? That we don't really know him after all this time. Do we know how his mind works? Do we know his character? Do we know how he is behind the closed doors?
DO ANY OF YOU KNOW?
Being believers doesn't make us know him better than the nonbelievers. Maybe just a little better.
I am trying to remind you what TS once said: if MJ would come on a forum most probably the fans would reject his ideas.
Now why do you think TS said that?
-
I would like to ask everybody a question: do you think we made any progress in discovering the man we never knew?
Anyone here know Michael personally, well that's what I imagine...
-
What am I trying to say Sinderella? That we don't really know him after all this time. Do we know how his mind works? Do we know his character? Do we know how he is behind the closed doors?
DO ANY OF YOU KNOW?
Being believers doesn't make us know him better than the nonbelievers. Maybe just a little better.
And so ? what are you trying to say ? That we have to keep open mind to any cryptic one on here in case it could be Michael related ?
-
I am not trying to say more than I already said.
-
I noticed the threads being locked, and yes, the topics got out of hands.
[judgemental mode on]
I support the idea to open new threads questioning what is "so funny or interesting" in playing with people. And, btw, What a botched job once again! Looks like a kindergarden full of wanna be intelligent manipulators and psycho wanna be with no insight at all.
[judgemental mode off]
To be honest, looks like we accept all this junk drama because we hope that MJ is behind all of this and being alive and still, after more than a year, shady characters come up.
And Gina, no, we do not know Michael at all, we just know who he was observing his speeches, as the whole world did, but I can say loudly that I doubt that Michael was a bad person with twisted intentions.
-
Gema I want to remind you that we are talking of a man who we think is possible to have faked his death.
-
TS, we have a pending conversation
(http://www.ciudadfutura.es/emoticones/enfado.gif)
Let´s not forget it
(http://www.cannabiscafe.net/foros/images/smilies/Mafia2.gif)
-
Gema I want to remind you that we are talking of a man who we think is possible to have faked his death.
And i want to remind you that we do not know the circumstances behind it ;)
-
What am I trying to say Sinderella? That we don't really know him after all this time. Do we know how his mind works? Do we know his character? Do we know how he is behind the closed doors?
DO ANY OF YOU KNOW?
Being believers doesn't make us know him better than the nonbelievers. Maybe just a little better.
......but what does that have to do with locking threads and people's opinions and removing the trolls and fakers?That question has just made this thread go off topic now too.
Do you know who I am?What I do?Who I know?Do you know how my mind works or my character,what i'm like away from this forum?
I would say no you definitley don't and you have no right to.Same goes for Michael.
Just because you are die hard life long fan,it is not written anywhere that you get to know more than you are told or are allowed to know and there is nothing you can do about it.Even if that upsets you,it is fact.
@Gema correct...circumstances are yet to be revealed.
-
It's amazing how we are so open to believe MJ faked his death, but so reluctant to believe the mental and psychological "machinery" that could have leaded to such an extraordinary possible hoax.......
I would like to ask everybody a question: do you think we made any progress in discovering the man we never knew?
I think the more interesting question would be this:
Have you learned anything about yourself????
-
I don't want to get sucked into this, but I do have one thing to say.
We are not here because there is a forum. The forum is here because of us.
I started believing this whole thing was a hoax much before I knew any forum dedicated to it existed. I began researching online and realized, "wow, there's a lot of people who are questioning this just like me".
It's not like a website was created to get people to believe this stuff. More like we all came to this website based on notions we already had.
So, while I do think it's important for everyone to feel they know the whole truth - that isn't going to happen. How do we know who's telling the truth? We don't. We are a bunch of strangers hiding behind screen names, it's impossible to tell who is and who isn't telling the truth.
Therefore, I think it's best to just live and let live, don't focus on what is or isn't going on with this forum, focus on the reason we're all here - the investigation.
Personally, I am fully able to research on my own as I did for 6 months after the "death" before even joining this forum. If we take away all the specific work done by the admins as well as TS, we are still left with all the stuff that they had nothing to do with - the 02 announcement, the 911 call, the ambulance photo, the helicopter, the strange things said by the family, the contradicting stories - all the reasons we came here in the first place that had nothing to do with TS, Souza, Mo, or anybody other than Michael Jackson himself.
Are we being deceived by someone? Well, the answer is yes no matter what way you look at it. If this was a murder made to look like a hoax, then yes there is deception. If Michael really hoaxed his death, then there is deception there too. It's also very possible that both theroies are true to an extent. This could be MJ's hoax, but there could also be people trying to distract us and stop his plans from happening. I really don't think it's as black and white as some may believe.
That being said, I don't think locking the threads was a solution to the problem, clearly. Although I would have done the same in hopes that it would stop. Maybe it's true though that this isn't going to work out with both of you, Souza & Mo, as admins?? I don't know, I'm stumped. Plus that's obviously up to the two of you and not me.
I just think it's time to cut the BS. All of us. Let's stop feeding it. Seriously. If anyone doesn't like this forum anymore, then just leave or stay out of topics such as these. Clearly those are our only options.
-
Thank you Souza.
I rest again peacefully.
-
I still think that is needed to know from where does TS find his predictions.
Ts´s predictions are just happening in time just to be some supposition or just to be an event hapening because we are directing the topics to lead it all up to it.
TS<-->TMZ?
TS<-->Huffington Post?
TS<-->Sony?
I have a hard time to believe that TS´s insights are just coming from numbers and biblic quotes.
We know what KeyboardWizz intentions were, now we need to know why did TS put his efforts in clues and redirections regarding MJ being alive and not murdered.
Does TS really care about what happened to MJ? or just cares about proving that MJ has not been murdered?
TS is in the know as shown in the redirections and i am not refering about knowing how to lead people out of mistery, i mean about the events he pointed at.
The events happened not only for "hoaxers" it also happened for the whole MJ fan community.
I said it once, TS was the creator of the Army of Love thread and an action of love is to be fair and honest.
I am not interested in knowing who that person is, because it won´t make any difference. TS could say he is Prince and living in a purple home, still people will doubt it, I just care to know the real intenions for participating in the hoax, the purpose.
-
I am prepared to start over and forget all the issues starting now
I am very happy to read this.
This says a lot about you.
I sincerely hope this is possible.
-
Funny you say this Sinderella... I wonder whether Diamonds are forever! I guess only real ones are!
I agree that...It should be interesting when all the fakes are uncovered... I am looking forward to the day!.... There will certainly be some surprises.... I can't wait!
Joker or Batman ... will see!
With L.O.V.E
Only the real ones my love...only the real ones.
It needs to happen sooner rather than later because the patience of the majority is running out.I'm pretty sure people would agree with me saying no one has time to waste on frauds.
As I said in my previous post I won't disclose it in a comment but there are people on here who need to leave it alone.
Let's make sure that only the Diamonds are left then, my dear... I hope it will not take too much sparkle away...from the forum!
With L.O.V.E
-
I noticed the threads being locked, and yes, the topics got out of hands.
[judgemental mode on]
I support the idea to open new threads questioning what is "so funny or interesting" in playing with people. And, btw, What a botched job once again! Looks like a kindergarden full of wanna be intelligent manipulators and psycho wanna be with no insight at all.
[judgemental mode off]
To be honest, looks like we accept all this junk drama because we hope that MJ is behind all of this and being alive and still, after more than a year, shady characters come up.
And Gina, no, we do not know Michael at all, we just know who he was observing his speeches, as the whole world did, but I can say loudly that I doubt that Michael was a bad person with twisted intentions.
Well, that's a bit harsh to judge T.S. that way ...........
-
I noticed the threads being locked, and yes, the topics got out of hands.
[judgemental mode on]
I support the idea to open new threads questioning what is "so funny or interesting" in playing with people. And, btw, What a botched job once again! Looks like a kindergarden full of wanna be intelligent manipulators and psycho wanna be with no insight at all.
[judgemental mode off]
To be honest, looks like we accept all this junk drama because we hope that MJ is behind all of this and being alive and still, after more than a year, shady characters come up.
And Gina, no, we do not know Michael at all, we just know who he was observing his speeches, as the whole world did, but I can say loudly that I doubt that Michael was a bad person with twisted intentions.
Well, that's a bit harsh to judge T.S. that way ...........
Well, that´s a bit too quick thinking my post was talking about TS... ;)
-
I noticed the threads being locked, and yes, the topics got out of hands.
[judgemental mode on]
I support the idea to open new threads questioning what is "so funny or interesting" in playing with people. And, btw, What a botched job once again! Looks like a kindergarden full of wanna be intelligent manipulators and psycho wanna be with no insight at all.
[judgemental mode off]
To be honest, looks like we accept all this junk drama because we hope that MJ is behind all of this and being alive and still, after more than a year, shady characters come up.
And Gina, no, we do not know Michael at all, we just know who he was observing his speeches, as the whole world did, but I can say loudly that I doubt that Michael was a bad person with twisted intentions.
Well, that's a bit harsh to judge T.S. that way ...........
Well, that´s a bit too quick thinking my post was talking about TS... ;)
;) Yep! It never crossed my mind either! Strange! I must be lacking the required pre-requisites to perform multi-contextual research!
With L.O.V.E
-
I noticed the threads being locked, and yes, the topics got out of hands.
[judgemental mode on]
I support the idea to open new threads questioning what is "so funny or interesting" in playing with people. And, btw, What a botched job once again! Looks like a kindergarden full of wanna be intelligent manipulators and psycho wanna be with no insight at all.
[judgemental mode off]
To be honest, looks like we accept all this junk drama because we hope that MJ is behind all of this and being alive and still, after more than a year, shady characters come up.
And Gina, no, we do not know Michael at all, we just know who he was observing his speeches, as the whole world did, but I can say loudly that I doubt that Michael was a bad person with twisted intentions.
Well, that's a bit harsh to judge T.S. that way ...........
Well, that´s a bit too quick thinking my post was talking about TS... ;)
;) Yep! It never crossed my mind either! Strange! I must be lacking the required pre-requisites to perform multi-contextual research!
With L.O.V.E
I am sure I lack them as well :D
-
Thank you Souza.
I rest again peacefully.
That makes me happy! I've always really respected your posts, and you scared me there for a bit.
by trustno1 » Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:09 am
I agree with those points michaelsupporter but how can any of those arguing prove their version is the correct one? And how can the truth ever really be known when we're talking about private discussions between individuals, we're back to the whole "he said, she said" thing. Certain decisions were made by certain people about what we would be told and how, and I don't know if confidence can ever really be restored when we know that this became less an investigation site and more a mind-manipulation exercise. If indeed there is now a forum hoax going on then I'm already very bored with it, it's nowhere near as fascinating or exciting as the actual hoax (sorry to the "players" if that's what they are but it is boring!). Thankfully we have plenty of members who are here for the right reasons and who have retained their sense of humour and common sense. A lot of people might be worried about the site folding, that doesn't mean we stop believing in the hoax and it doesn't mean we can't find each other elsewhere and keep the investigation going. All this bad feeling is poisonous and I have no idea what new people visiting the site must think at the behaviour on display. I personally find the hypocrisy of certain members disgraceful. No matter how many threads are locked these discussions and this mistrust isn't going to go away. You reap what you sow as they say.
I really hate when people suggest this site folding is no big deal, like being turfed out on the internet streets is fine. I hate being homeless.
It's true we don't know Michael really, we certainly don't know each other except for what we choose to reveal. I have discovered in my life that to reveal too much, sometimes loses people's respect.
When the controversy over whether or not it is Michael on Breaking News album erupted on the MJ's dead forums, people here talked about how stupid it was, how maybe even MJ wanted them all to duke it out. Is it like that here, we duke it out, survival of the fittist until its last man standing. I mean we think there's a Judas amongst us, a troll or two, and we don't know who it is. It's driving us crasy, and we're trying to flush them out? I think only time will do that, unless of course Souza and Mo know who they are already. I would think if they know they should ban them. Perhaps there are no trolls but only members here who hold grudges and vendettas to perceived enemies, in which case this fighting could see no end.
Souza I applaud your sincere apology. Hopefully more will follow from certain others. At the end of the day, I'm not sure what it acheived. Certain people just seem to want heads on a platter.
Before one of the threads was locked, I was about to post a sincere positive observation to keyboardwhizz. I know he may have been at the epicentre of this war, but he answered my question earlier with I believe honesty. I believe TS may in the future come clean about his motivations, and we won't hold anything against him, hopefully. Keyboardwizz's observation do show us something about ourselves and perhaps we were uncomfortable with that. I looked back at even some of my own posts on TIalmostI, and I take nothing back. We all enjoyed discussing things, and learning. If anything Keyboardwizz was simply a discussion starter. Simple, direct. I've always enjoyed games where it gets your brain juices flowing.
by keyboardwizz » Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:35 am
This experience foremost showed me how clues are interpreted, sometimes I tweeted something and I would read explanations I never thought of, and those where just single words sended in cyberspace. I even was analyzed by someone and most of the meanings he/she gave to the tweets where totally off........ I even think there is a posibility that some of my "followers" still believe that I'm Michael even after my revelation, and what shocked me even more is how people confuse assumtions and facts. I firmly believe in the power of words and think a lot of "secrets "in this world can be unveiled by going back to the true origin of those words. Sadly nowadays the world is lost in translation...
So it did shed a different light on T.S. , because he even took it a step further by re-directing to posts of members here by which he literally is directing the things we should look into. So I'm not calling him a fraud or anything, but his redirects are in no way a proof that Michael is alive.
So his intentions or validity can only be proven after a revelation or BAM.
For me personally there still isn't any solid evidence that Michael is alive, but no evidence he's dead either, so I'm totally with you : 5050
I could say more and that's all for now. It appears to me like there's two sides in this forum right now. Those who want to put it all behind and go on, and those who want to dig a hole to China before they're done. :( :) I actually don't care as long as this site stays alive and going till BAM and maybe beyond because we'll have an explosion of stuff happening here, with like a million new members, and all our work will be the revered archives.
-
The site isn't going anywhere. Don't worry. It's fate rests in hands higher then Admin and it's future, and that of our work, is guaranteed.
It's all good. Deep breaths all around.
-
Are you saying Michael's behind it?
-
It's amazing how we are so open to believe MJ faked his death, but so reluctant to believe the mental and psychological "machinery" that could have leaded to such an extraordinary possible hoax.......
I would like to ask everybody a question: do you think we made any progress in discovering the man we never knew?
Excellent comment,
and to answer your question , as always there are two sides to every story,. Yes I 've seen a positive change in the way Michael is being depicted after he "died". A lot of media attention was given to the world-caring side of M.J. as well of finally seeing the truth come out regarding the molestation accusations.But we have to keep in my mind that that's (sadly)mostly the case when someone dies.
Hence the saying "Never speak ill of the dead"
But with all the confusion concerning doubles and sound-alikes I've got the feeling we're discovering the men we never knew......
-
Are you saying Michael's behind it?
No. Not at all. Not even a little bit. That would be fun, but no, that's not what I'm saying.
-
Gema wrote: TS <-> TMZ?
TS <-> Huffington Post?
TS <-> Sony?
If you want to know ,.... TS has to clarify, make clear, undo the confusion ', if he or she may have to be a very good explanation to dispel all doubts.
-
The site isn't going anywhere. Don't worry. It's fate rests in hands higher then Admin and it's future, and that of our work, is guaranteed .
It's all good. Deep breaths all around.
Sounds too good (to be true?). Your answer is very mysterious to me. How can you know for sure? If you do, fine.
I remember a time just one year ago, when the old forum went down the gutter. Amy promised not to leave the ship, but after some time, all became hoax history. The atmoshpere was getting worse, and suddenly it was all gone, inclusive all information somewhere out there, all members' work lost more or better, less. Members were scattered and newly formed in various new forums over the web, many felt really homeless and extremely sad.
-
The site isn't going anywhere. Don't worry. It's fate rests in hands higher then Admin and it's future, and that of our work, is guaranteed.
It's all good. Deep breaths all around.
Sorry, but this is a totally nonsense comment, there are no higher hands then the admins if they deceide to end this site , this is their decision. So you have absolutely nothing to say about this .
-
Are you saying Michael's behind it?
No. Not at all. Not even a little bit. That would be fun, but no, that's not what I'm saying.
I hope we still can agree that Michael is behind this hoax, isn't this the starting point of this site?
-
Guys, PEACE! :P
If a thread gets locked, START ANOTHER if you're passionate about keeping the discussion going. Is that so hard? Does this need to be such a big deal?
"Hoax within a hoax within a hoax", which got locked recently, was one that I personally was very interested in, but it does seem to me that it got out of hand, with B-day wishes and little jokes... things that IMO should have been in PMs rather than on the forum. (I hope I won't attract too much hate for saying this.) It's cool to wish someone Happy Birthday, but please do it in private messages, because it has nothing to do with MJ or the hoax. I think it's disrespectful of people's time to make them think "Oh, there's a new post!" and then make them discover that that post adds nothing in terms of substance. I think debates and ideas thrown around about MJ, the hoax or the topic at hand are fine, but stuff that's completely unrelated shouldn't be there. There's already a "General Talk" section where you can take whatever random thoughts you have and wish to discuss.
GINA: What's the point of asking whether anyone really knows MJ and every single thought of his?! That's not the point for me... You could say no one really knows anyone. Do we even know ourselves, and everything we're capable of?! It's very easy to go around in circles with this sort of philosophical question... I prefer to focus on more concrete things. And yes, I personally have learnt a lot about Michael and the world we live in since starting this journey sometime in 2009. To a large extent, this is not even about Michael... It's about this freakin' world, and yes, as someone else said, about ourselves!
-
This has been on my mind for some time, and I'm very scared to ask it. :shock: :? :roll: :shock:
If, and very big IF, hypothetically speaking, if this site does go down, I would like to know if possible, what is being done to make ALL information, complete threads, available on the net to everyone here, like FOREVER. Easily available in the future for all those seeking answers to randomly stumble upon as well. Is there some plan in place? There was so much anguish over lost info and work from the other closed site.
My next question is could there be a MJHDI subsite like FEMA, federal emergency measures act, for information on where members here can meet elsewhere to regroup, a list of other sites, or some plan of help or whatever. Just something back-up we can copy and save, for that sad, hopefully unlikely day. You know like, "This tape will self-destruct in 30 seconds". Maybe it would include information on why the site was closed and a parting letter from admins, etc. It will be a very painful end for many here. Again I'm hoping Bec is right in saying it will never happen, but strange things have happened before, and I'm more confident in Michael being alive, than I am in the site surviving all the internal wars. Maybe I'm alone in my fears, and they are unfounded. Maybe reassurances are impossible since no one can predict the future but God.
Also again, I love and respect everyone here and have enjoyed every minute of the ride. :) Certain personalities make me die laughing, some fry my brain, and some make me sigh, but we're all in this togther. Thank you for accepting me with my personality, I'm just being me, and I can't help it. :roll: :) Sorry for hurting anyone. Because of my background I find it hard to express my affection as some of you are so naturally warm and fuzzy with each other, but I do feel the same way but don't know how to express it. :oops: I do love you all.
-
Gema I want to remind you that we are talking of a man who we think is possible to have faked his death.
A LIE can serve a good purpose.
A LIE can save lives.
A LIE can wake people up from their slumber.
A LIE is sometimes necessary, moral, and right.
If Michael hoaxed his death, you can be sure he did it for a good reason, not just to kid around. We don't know the reason(s).
-
Is this just turning into a TS/WW3 overspill thread?
-
Look you guys, I don't know why BlackJack decided to wish me happy birthday on that thread, it was a total surprise to me and I still don't know how he knew when my birthday was :? . He even posted it a day in advance :? like he couldn't wait ...
And the next day he offered me a "cold shower" and left me speechless :lol: .
I can't figure this out entirely by the time being.
What I can see is that a lot of people feel hurt and deceived by BlackJack because he said Michael is OK and nothing more. Yet BlackJack made AMAZING previous comments about Michael and many of you spoke highly about his comments.
Now I should have been mad with him, really.... for playing with me like that, one day wishing me happy birthday and the next day accusing me of terrible things, and for calling Michael a big faker, but you know what? I just can't be angry with BlackJack. I know for many of you feelings don't count too much..... for me feelings count as much as solid facts. Feelings are real, yet so undervalued. Feelings drive us and we don't even always realise it.
What BlackJack did after all? I know you don't like him now, but what's wrong in telling people to rely on themselves, to be the best that they can be? To fulfill themselves without relying on aid from outside, to discover their own power..... not that Michael is not a hero, because he is.... but if we want to build an army of love, each soldier has to be strong by himself, has to be the best that he can be without taking his power from outside sources...... maybe I am taking this too far, maybe you will think I am a troll, but I woudn't be so hasty in judging BlackJack. He made valuable comments which are still there for us to read it again.
His thread hoax within a hoax within a hoax revealed new strong aspects of this story and of MJ himself, aspects that we might not be ready to accept or to discuss yet.
Whoever BlackJack might be, I am not mad with him and I think his points are still valid in his original posts on Hoax within a hoax within a hoax and on the re-education threads
-
It's amazing how we are so open to believe MJ faked his death, but so reluctant to believe the mental and psychological "machinery" that could have leaded to such an extraordinary possible hoax.......
I would like to ask everybody a question: do you think we made any progress in discovering the man we never knew?
The man we never knew? who, Michael?
I have not read any post from Michael at all.
So, no, i can´t consider Michael to be "the man we never knew" since we have no idea if Michael is alive on the first place.
I woud like this nonsense trolling to stop, makes us look even more ridiculous.
You feel ridiculous because you think Michael could be alive Gema?
-
It's amazing how we are so open to believe MJ faked his death, but so reluctant to believe the mental and psychological "machinery" that could have leaded to such an extraordinary possible hoax.......
I would like to ask everybody a question: do you think we made any progress in discovering the man we never knew?
I think the more interesting question would be this:
Have you learned anything about yourself????
Yes.
-
It's amazing how we are so open to believe MJ faked his death, but so reluctant to believe the mental and psychological "machinery" that could have leaded to such an extraordinary possible hoax.......
I would like to ask everybody a question: do you think we made any progress in discovering the man we never knew?
The man we never knew? who, Michael?
I have not read any post from Michael at all.
So, no, i can´t consider Michael to be "the man we never knew" since we have no idea if Michael is alive on the first place.
I woud like this nonsense trolling to stop, makes us look even more ridiculous.
You feel ridiculous because you think Michael could be alive Gema?
To clear up your doubt of what I said, here the more detailed explanation:
The fights makes us look ridiculous and the trolling even more.
-
What am I trying to say Sinderella? That we don't really know him after all this time. Do we know how his mind works? Do we know his character? Do we know how he is behind the closed doors?
DO ANY OF YOU KNOW?
Being believers doesn't make us know him better than the nonbelievers. Maybe just a little better.
......but what does that have to do with locking threads and people's opinions and removing the trolls and fakers?That question has just made this thread go off topic now too.
Do you know who I am?What I do?Who I know?Do you know how my mind works or my character,what i'm like away from this forum?
I would say no you definitley don't and you have no right to.Same goes for Michael.
Just because you are die hard life long fan,it is not written anywhere that you get to know more than you are told or are allowed to know and there is nothing you can do about it.Even if that upsets you,it is fact.
It doesn't upset me. It would be cool to know all of you but the important thing is to discover Michael because seems to me we still have a long way to go.....
-
Before one of the threads was locked, I was about to post a sincere positive observation to keyboardwhizz. I know he may have been at the epicentre of this war, but he answered my question earlier with I believe honesty. I believe TS may in the future come clean about his motivations, and we won't hold anything against him, hopefully. Keyboardwizz's observation do show us something about ourselves and perhaps we were uncomfortable with that. I looked back at even some of my own posts on TIalmostI, and I take nothing back. We all enjoyed discussing things, and learning. If anything Keyboardwizz was simply a discussion starter. Simple, direct. I've always enjoyed games where it gets your brain juices flowing.
by keyboardwizz » Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:35 am
This experience foremost showed me how clues are interpreted, sometimes I tweeted something and I would read explanations I never thought of, and those where just single words sended in cyberspace. I even was analyzed by someone and most of the meanings he/she gave to the tweets where totally off........ I even think there is a posibility that some of my "followers" still believe that I'm Michael even after my revelation, and what shocked me even more is how people confuse assumtions and facts. I firmly believe in the power of words and think a lot of "secrets "in this world can be unveiled by going back to the true origin of those words. Sadly nowadays the world is lost in translation...
So it did shed a different light on T.S. , because he even took it a step further by re-directing to posts of members here by which he literally is directing the things we should look into. So I'm not calling him a fraud or anything, but his redirects are in no way a proof that Michael is alive.
So his intentions or validity can only be proven after a revelation or BAM.
For me personally there still isn't any solid evidence that Michael is alive, but no evidence he's dead either, so I'm totally with you : 5050
I could say more and that's all for now. It appears to me like there's two sides in this forum right now. Those who want to put it all behind and go on, and those who want to dig a hole to China before they're done. :( :) I actually don't care as long as this site stays alive and going till BAM and maybe beyond because we'll have an explosion of stuff happening here, with like a million new members, and all our work will be the revered archives.
I actually was quite surprised that thread was locked, yes I'm aware of the commotion it caused but the thread was full of positive comments and lots of usable information . Also I find it dissapointing I don't have the chance to explain myself and answer questions, so I'm going to ask if this thread can be unlocked. Maybe the title can be changed in thisisalmostit by keyboardwizz, since my identity is finally revealed. For the people that feel deceived I have to say : I posted the same thread starter at michaeljacksonhoaxdeath.net and I was debunked in one post.....
Again , people are responsible for themselfs what to believe,and withholding information is not done imho.
-
Look you guys, I don't know why BlackJack decided to wish me happy birthday on that thread, it was a total surprise to me and I still don't know how he knew when my birthday was :? . He even posted it a day in advance :? like he couldn't wait ...
And the next day he offered me a "cold shower" and left me speechless :lol: .
I can't figure this out entirely by the time being.
What I can see is that a lot of people feel hurt and deceived by BlackJack because he said Michael is OK and nothing more. Yet BlackJack made AMAZING previous comments about Michael and many of you spoke highly about his comments.
Now I should have been mad with him, really.... for playing with me like that, one day wishing me happy birthday and the next day accusing me of terrible things, and for calling Michael a big faker, but you know what? I just can't be angry with BlackJack. I know for many of you feelings don't count too much..... for me feelings count as much as solid facts. Feelings are real, yet so undervalued. Feelings drive us and we don't even always realise it.
What BlackJack did after all? I know you don't like him now, but what's wrong in telling people to rely on themselves, to be the best that they can be? To fulfill themselves without relying on aid from outside, to discover their own power..... not that Michael is not a hero, because he is.... but if we want to build an army of love, each soldier has to be strong by himself, has to be the best that he can be without taking his power from outside sources...... maybe I am taking this too far, maybe you will think I am a troll, but I woudn't be so hasty in judging BlackJack. He made valuable comments which are still there for us to read it again.
His thread hoax within a hoax within a hoax revealed new strong aspects of this story and of MJ himself, aspects that we might not be ready to accept or to discuss yet.
Whoever BlackJack might be, I am not mad with him and I think his points are still valid in his original posts on Hoax within a hoax within a hoax and on the re-education threads
Gina,
I am not a rude person.I like a lot of your posts and I like mostly everyone here but I have to say this to you..
What are you talking about?Why are you making out this entire thread is dedicated to hating on you and BJ.That is ONE thread that was closed.No one has mentioned your birthday wishes or a shower that I am aware of :/
No offense but you sound like your a PA/publicist and trying to smooth things over for her,it is a her btw.
Just because you are not mad at BJ,doesn't mean other people who have a seperate opinion are wrong.
Each person has seperate dealings with an individual which leads to their formed opinion.Mine is not the same as yours for reasons which are nothing to do with anyone else.It goes far beyond the comment 'Michael is an ok person'. If you think that single comment was what flipped everyone you need to really wake up and go and re-read Voice's comments.
You are so quick to dismiss the fact you may have been fooled or lied to or lead on and are questioning others for seeing or feeling it.
No one said her previous threads/posts are not valid or important and should be ignored,the thread about education is great I was very active and fully agreed with most things about stalkers and lunatic fans.That hasn't changed.I would continue posting there are it is something I have strong opinions on myself.
I feel from what you have said,that you are putting all your hopes on one person.
No one has called you a troll either Gina and I'm sure they do not think that.
My opinions and 'feelings' remain the same and BJ wishing you a happy birthday and being fabulous in your eyes won't change that....I'm sure it won't change VFTS/WYHS/MS's/Chloe's or anyone elses either.
I think you should be looking out for yourself instead of defending someone you know nothing or very little about apart from what is posted on a forum.
If Blackjack feels like defending what people are saying then the comment box is waiting.
@Gema,again yes I agree....utterly ridiculous.
-
sorry Sinderella, someone here commented about why BJ wished me happy birthday on that thread and I felt guilty for what he did if people don't like it.
BlackJack might be a girl after all if he told you so :lol:
How much of what he says do you think you can trust? Do you trust he/she told you the truth about being a girl? maybe....Oh, I just felt the need to defend him because you all are angry with him....her...or whatever his/hers gender is :lol:
I don't want to change your opinions about BlackJack, I just stated mine. That's all.
-
"Hoax within a hoax within a hoax", which got locked recently, was one that I personally was very interested in, but it does seem to me that it got out of hand, with B-day wishes and little jokes...
See? I felt guilty...even if Blackjack is the one who should .... but he did it on his own thread and I suppose a person who started a thread has the right to post what he/she wishes
-
[You are so quick to dismiss the fact you may have been fooled or lied to or lead on and are questioning others for seeing or feeling it.
I might be totally out of my mind: "..... I created a lie but because you believed it you found something true about yourself."
Does it really matter who is the person creating the lie?
I said before I should be mad..... but I am simply NOT. In fact I am grateful.
-
"Hoax-(Forum) Leaks": Free speech is essential for finding possible 'leaks'.
Locking specific threads can be contraproductive.
How can truth be found by silencing topics of interest?
Every organization rests upon a mountain of secrets
Julian Assange
Not meaning, this is the case here, as I don't know, but I have always been against
censorship in general. It raises more questions than given, because sometimes a hidden agenda
might be behind it, if we take a look at government organizations in some countries.
China comes into my mind, where the word of some members of society is like a sword
for government officials. They fear losing power,if their real intentions come into open daylight, and suppression is the consequence. Only the power of the people can overcome it.
We have also seen it with Iran, with the planned stoning of a woman, now not carried out.
Too much pressure worldwide helped save a life.
These examples refer to governmental abuse of power, mind control is the rule in these
countries.
All in all I just want to try to express my concern about the massive locking of threads and
the confusion about it: One Admin opens a thread dissociating herself from locking these
threads and favoring free speech. The other Admin doing the opposite. Everyone claiming to
do the right thing. Why not discussing it (again?) and come to one conclusion together?
It is hard work to run a forum of this size, I agree, but unless there is no unity at the top, it
will get complicated, I am afraid, if I may say so.
But maybe I am all wrong and you are all right, it will eventually come all out in the end, or not.
If Bec is right with his predictions of a higher power than the Admin, everything will be alright,
but if not, then I am rather pessimistic. Burnt child so to speak, with the events of a forum
lost forever and warm words that proved shallow. But I don't know what went wrong.
And of course I hope for this forum to get stronger with each conflict. Admins starting to
speak of mistakes and apology is a good start. Certainly not easy for strong characters on
a public forum. Keep on doing the good and time-consuming work on a stony road!
-
"Hoax-(Forum) Leaks": Free speech is essential for finding possible 'leaks'.
Locking specific threads can be contraproductive.
How can truth be found by silencing topics of interest?
Totally agree
-
"Hoax-(Forum) Leaks": Free speech is essential for finding possible 'leaks'.
Locking specific threads can be contraproductive.
How can truth be found by silencing topics of interest?
Totally agree
I also agree.
-
onemoretime:
We are not being silenced. Start another thread if you feel like it and don't get so dramatic. :D If someone kicks you off the forum, and it becomes impossible for you to post, then you're silenced.
-
I've noticed a few people saying they are scared of being homeless and they don't like to hear the thought of the site folding being mentioned. That actually scares me as I think to see this as a home and not a forum isn't healthy, yes it's a sanctuary for us and it's a great source of debate and information, but to place SO much faith in this site when it could easily go the same way as the old one is setting yourself up for heartbreak. The old site went and this one rose from its ashes, if it happened once it could happen again. As for the complaining about wishing people a happy birthday (referring to truthprevails post), that's pretty mean-spirited, there are lots of things discussed which could be classed as non hoax-related, I have never clicked on a new post, read a simple birthday wish and got annoyed. It took probably five seconds of my time, so what? The friendly banter was something that made this feel like a family, as did the birthday wishes. So I guess we all have to do that via PM now. I realise most people didn't have a problem with it but all the niggles are starting to come out now. Negativity breeds negativity.
bec your comments about a higher power than the admins being responsible for the site's survival intrigued me, I don't suppose you'd like to elaborate? Again when people hint that they know inside info the rest of us aren't privvy to it can start the whole "them and us" situation again and we're (hopefully) trying to get past that.
-
As you all have noticed, several threads have been locked today. I, as admin, really hope that the locking of these threads won't discourage our members of stating their opinion.
Every dispute has its pros and cons, and all these pros and cons can be valuable. A dispute simply can't be solved by silencing the participants, there are other and better ways to accomplish that.
The locking of these threads might suggest that there's no space for Freedom of Speech on these boards, and therefore I dissociate myself from the lockings.
"The locking of these threads might suggest that there's no space for Freedom of Speech on these boards, and therefore I dissociate myself from the lockings."
I am glad someone else noticed that
-
bec your comments about a higher power than the admins being responsible for the site's survival intrigued me, I don't suppose you'd like to elaborate? Again when people hint that they know inside info the rest of us aren't privvy to it can start the whole "them and us" situation again and we're (hopefully) trying to get past that.
There are no "higher powers" than the admins. The "higher power" Bec is referring to is Badkolo. Badkolo owns the domain and pays for the hosting. SHOULD he ever decide to stop supporting this site then there's still no problem, as Souza and I both make backups of the forum on a regular base so the info will never be lost. That's ALL there is to know.
-
Thank You Mo, it helps when someone explains the facts plain and simple. Now we all know what bec meant and can stop asking.
-
Thank You Mo, it helps when someone explains the facts plain and simple. Now we all know what bec meant and can stop asking.
exactly
This way of explaining things helps a lot. "mystery" solved
-
it helps when someone explains the facts plain and simple
Stop getting in my mind :evil:
We are on the same wave lately ;) , i totally agree
-
I noticed the threads being locked, and yes, the topics got out of hands.
[judgemental mode on]
I support the idea to open new threads questioning what is "so funny or interesting" in playing with people. And, btw, What a botched job once again! Looks like a kindergarden full of wanna be intelligent manipulators and psycho wanna be with no insight at all.
[judgemental mode off]
To be honest, looks like we accept all this junk drama because we hope that MJ is behind all of this and being alive and still, after more than a year, shady characters come up.
And Gina, no, we do not know Michael at all, we just know who he was observing his speeches, as the whole world did, but I can say loudly that I doubt that Michael was a bad person with twisted intentions.
Well, that's a bit harsh to judge T.S. that way ...........
Well, that´s a bit too quick thinking my post was talking about TS... ;)
So funny...because I kept trying to figure out why he thought that was about TS...
So, keyboardwizz....are you TS too? Confession is cleansing for the soul.
-
I see argues everywhere I go and makes me sad : this is a beautiful month...we should all say "sorry" and respect eachother in the future....Souza it was nice to see how you apologized.
I should go back to my seat now...and go on reading the threads...negative vibe makes me shiver. :?
-
I noticed the threads being locked, and yes, the topics got out of hands.
[judgemental mode on]
I support the idea to open new threads questioning what is "so funny or interesting" in playing with people. And, btw, What a botched job once again! Looks like a kindergarden full of wanna be intelligent manipulators and psycho wanna be with no insight at all.
[judgemental mode off]
To be honest, looks like we accept all this junk drama because we hope that MJ is behind all of this and being alive and still, after more than a year, shady characters come up.
And Gina, no, we do not know Michael at all, we just know who he was observing his speeches, as the whole world did, but I can say loudly that I doubt that Michael was a bad person with twisted intentions.
Well, that's a bit harsh to judge T.S. that way ...........
Well, that´s a bit too quick thinking my post was talking about TS... ;)
So funny...because I kept trying to figure out why he thought that was about TS...
So, keyboardwizz....are you TS too? Confession is cleansing for the soul.
..ooopssss my thought also when reading :lol:
-
I noticed the threads being locked, and yes, the topics got out of hands.
[judgemental mode on]
I support the idea to open new threads questioning what is "so funny or interesting" in playing with people. And, btw, What a botched job once again! Looks like a kindergarden full of wanna be intelligent manipulators and psycho wanna be with no insight at all.
[judgemental mode off]
To be honest, looks like we accept all this junk drama because we hope that MJ is behind all of this and being alive and still, after more than a year, shady characters come up.
And Gina, no, we do not know Michael at all, we just know who he was observing his speeches, as the whole world did, but I can say loudly that I doubt that Michael was a bad person with twisted intentions.
Well, that's a bit harsh to judge T.S. that way ...........
Well, that´s a bit too quick thinking my post was talking about TS... ;)
So funny...because I kept trying to figure out why he thought that was about TS...
So, keyboardwizz....are you TS too? Confession is cleansing for the soul.
No , I'm not, my soul is clean. T.S.'s identity still is a mystery the cynical remark was made by me because it was clearly a sneer, without possession of any knowledge.
-
[You are so quick to dismiss the fact you may have been fooled or lied to or lead on and are questioning others for seeing or feeling it.
I might be totally out of my mind: "..... I created a lie but because you believed it you found something true about yourself."
Does it really matter who is the person creating the lie?
I said before I should be mad..... but I am simply NOT. In fact I am grateful.
Gina - You have my full RESPECT for standing for yourself!
Wherever the lies are, it will come out in due time! Until then keep your integrity no matter what! It is a valuable resource in today's World... those who have not got it, cannot steal it from you... all they can do is get you to throw it away! Don't give them this Pleasure!
With L.O.V.E
-
I think that we just have to be ourselves. In the end the truthfull is always recompensed no matter how/when and the truth is destined to prevail. Each one has his/her own conscience and if persons are playing silly games or whatever else this will be their problem and timely revealed (I have no one in mind and I am one who's been duped by trolls :D ). If we really understand that the message is the most important and not the messenger and his/her supposed identity than it should be fine. We should not forget that we are responsible in the end for the choices we make and that there is no one to blame apart from us. I only put my unconditional trust in God. Now I realize that I may be off-topic... it went in all directions already not my fault :P ... it's a pattern 8-)
About locked threads... maybe that a warning before locking the thread would be better... :D .... :idea: :?:
-
bec your comments about a higher power than the admins being responsible for the site's survival intrigued me, I don't suppose you'd like to elaborate? Again when people hint that they know inside info the rest of us aren't privvy to it can start the whole "them and us" situation again and we're (hopefully) trying to get past that.
There are no "higher powers" than the admins. The "higher power" Bec is referring to is Badkolo. Badkolo owns the domain and pays for the hosting. SHOULD he ever decide to stop supporting this site then there's still no problem, as Souza and I both make backups of the forum on a regular base so the info will never be lost. That's ALL there is to know.
Yes, that's right. It's like a little corporate empire here so no one person holds the kill switch, which is a wonderful system, very smart, the information is very secure for as long as the internet and the electric grid exist so will this information.
I am very grateful for this and have great confidence in how things function here.
I am not trying to be mysterious, I was trying to not talk out of turn yet simultaneously ease people's concerns.
-
[You are so quick to dismiss the fact you may have been fooled or lied to or lead on and are questioning others for seeing or feeling it.
I might be totally out of my mind: "..... I created a lie but because you believed it you found something true about yourself."
Does it really matter who is the person creating the lie?
I said before I should be mad..... but I am simply NOT. In fact I am grateful.
Gina - You have my full RESPECT for standing for yourself!
Wherever the lies are, it will come out in due time! Until then keep your integrity no matter what! It is a valuable resource in today's World... those who have not got it, cannot steal it from you... all they can do is get you to throw it away! Don't give them this Pleasure!
With L.O.V.E
Hi TheRunningGirl. Thank you :) .
The members of this forum have to be "entertained", right? Kept busy, right?
Right now it's funny to me now how people don't pay attention to what TS said, that he used another username around here. Is that so unimportant?! To me NOT.
... we get a free training in hoaxing :lol:
I love this !!
-
Oh :lol: thit whole situation I love so much :D
One person comes on the forum, makes great posts, revealeas things we were never thinking about, gets our trust and appreciation and then, out of the blue, his/hers evil twin gets "possession" of his/hers account !! Sounds like a hoax to me :?
Hoax within a hoax within a hoax.
And if I am wrong so be it.... we are not here to be RIGHT all the time.....
-
Funny - now TIAI redirects to a locked thread :lol:
-
bec your comments about a higher power than the admins being responsible for the site's survival intrigued me, I don't suppose you'd like to elaborate? Again when people hint that they know inside info the rest of us aren't privvy to it can start the whole "them and us" situation again and we're (hopefully) trying to get past that.
There are no "higher powers" than the admins. The "higher power" Bec is referring to is Badkolo. Badkolo owns the domain and pays for the hosting. SHOULD he ever decide to stop supporting this site then there's still no problem, as Souza and I both make backups of the forum on a regular base so the info will never be lost. That's ALL there is to know.
Yes, that's right. It's like a little corporate empire here so no one person holds the kill switch, which is a wonderful system, very smart, the information is very secure for as long as the internet and the electric grid exist so will this information.
As long as someone is willing to pay for hosting the info, yes.
I am very grateful for this and have great confidence in how things function here.
I am not trying to be mysterious, I was trying to not talk out of turn yet simultaneously ease people's concerns.
Then why refer to Badkolo as a "higher power"? Everybody here knows who Badkolo is. Please don't create mystery when there is none. That's right where wild stories start, and that's something people here clearly don't appreciate.
-
Hi everyone,
I think we all compeletely lost the track by accusing each other.
So I would like to ask those who are doing this all the time: are you happy with what you are doing?
We are not getting any redirects from TS just because of that kind of behaviour!!!! So we are sort of punished now!
Ithink this is terrible!!!!!!!! It's sad to admit this but i think it's just the human nature!!!!!!!!
We start to talk about love and Michael's message an so on and so on...... and we end up with no new redirects anymore....
accusations...... suspision..............What are you doing people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think it's about tome to wake up and to realize that what you are doing is completely wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is reminding me of the famous novel "Lord of the Flies" . It's about some children who got lost on an Island because of an airplane crash. In order to survive they formed some kind of a group with a group leader. Then they started to have their own tribe regulations and began to punish each others just like adults do. They ended up with behaving like kaniballs and wanted to hunt the weakest childern down in order to eat them. In this novel the narrator wants to emphasize that no matter how civilized human beings nowadays are, they will reach the point where thy would return to their savage origins because it's just our human nature. When I read the forum I think he is completely right.
This is toooooo saaaaaaad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
-
Hi everyone,
I think we all compeletely lost the track by accusing each other.
So I would like to ask those who are doing this all the time: are you happy with what you are doing?
We are not getting any redirects from TS just because of that kind of behaviour!!!! So we are sort of punished now!
So according to you the unfolding of the hoax completely depends on TS..? The hoax already existed before TS entered, and will continue with or without TS's redirects and posts. Be careful to not become dependent on ONE person.
-
Hi everyone,
I think we all compeletely lost the track by accusing each other.
So I would like to ask those who are doing this all the time: are you happy with what you are doing?
We are not getting any redirects from TS just because of that kind of behaviour!!!! So we are sort of punished now!
Ithink this is terrible!!!!!!!! It's sad to admit this but i think it's just the human nature!!!!!!!!
We start to talk about love and Michael's message an so on and so on...... and we end up with no new redirects anymore....
accusations...... suspision..............What are you doing people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think it's about tome to wake up and to realize that what you are doing is completely wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is reminding me of the famous novel "Lord of the Flies" . It's about some children who got lost on an Island because of an airplane crash. In order to survive they formed some kind of a group with a group leader. Then they started to have their own tribe regulations and began to punish each others just like adults do. They ended up with behaving like kaniballs and wanted to hunt the weakest childern down in order to eat them. In this novel the narrator wants to emphasize that no matter how civilized human beings nowadays are, they will reach the point where thy would return to their savage origins because it's just our human nature. When I read the forum I think he is completely right.
This is toooooo saaaaaaad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I hope you are joking....
-
bec your comments about a higher power than the admins being responsible for the site's survival intrigued me, I don't suppose you'd like to elaborate? Again when people hint that they know inside info the rest of us aren't privvy to it can start the whole "them and us" situation again and we're (hopefully) trying to get past that.
There are no "higher powers" than the admins. The "higher power" Bec is referring to is Badkolo. Badkolo owns the domain and pays for the hosting. SHOULD he ever decide to stop supporting this site then there's still no problem, as Souza and I both make backups of the forum on a regular base so the info will never be lost. That's ALL there is to know.
Yes, that's right. It's like a little corporate empire here so no one person holds the kill switch, which is a wonderful system, very smart, the information is very secure for as long as the internet and the electric grid exist so will this information.
I am very grateful for this and have great confidence in how things function here.
I am not trying to be mysterious, I was trying to not talk out of turn yet simultaneously ease people's concerns.
Thanks, I guess that's the answers I was looking for!
-
I think someone needs to lay off the exclamation marks and dots.People will start to think your someone else as well.....
TS is not the creator,director,writer,subject or anything of this hoax/production/master piece..whatever you want to call it.
He/she is a small part of this forum who came well after June 25th 2009.
If you seriously think this hoax and forum is held together by one member using two letters as their name,you really should go back and start reading from the start,around 2005 when BACK was posting.
Oh,and some of the people being accused on here of being someone else deserve it,again if you were following more than one person would know this.It is not unjustified.
-
Mo wrote; So according to you the unfolding of the hoax completely depends on TS..? The hoax already existed before TS entered, and will continue with or without TS's redirects and posts. Be careful to not become dependent on ONE person.
This is true, but I'd like to see that TS has to say at this moment there are so many questions about it.
-
I used to be a very active member of this forum.
However, i "left" a while ago due to this TS thing.
I was told to read TS and post less!
I dont believe in TS. I never have done and for me, to read all those long winded posts seems like a waste of my time that could be spent investigating and reading and trying to find out the truth of my beloved Michael.
Now that the TS issue seems to be breaking out and i see i have other members here who are now feeling what i have felt since the beginning of this issue, i may start to come back more often and choose to share the information i have gathered in my investigations.
-
I used to be a very active member of this forum.
However, i "left" a while ago due to this TS thing.
I was told to read TS and post less!
I dont believe in TS. I never have done and for me, to read all those long winded posts seems like a waste of my time that could be spent investigating and reading and trying to find out the truth of my beloved Michael.
Now that the TS issue seems to be breaking out and i see i have other members here who are now feeling what i have felt since the beginning of this issue, i may start to come back more often and choose to share the information i have gathered in my investigations.
Welcome back :)
TS is not the be all and end all as I said before.Don't let it put you off...just avoid those topics.Lots going on with the album,TR,the dodo..lol!
Get back involved and don't read anything you don't want to.
-
Welcome back :)
TS is not the be all and end all as I said before.Don't let it put you off...just avoid those topics.Lots going on with the album,TR,the dodo..lol!
Get back involved and don't read anything you don't want to.
Thankyou. I will see how it goes. xxxx
I got very offended when i was told to post less and read TS... like i was being TOLD what to do and what to believe.. when in my heart, this TS person is a waste of my time.
It went against my investigation ethics.. i never believe anonymous sources who demand i believe in them. Nor do i think "clues" come heavily laden in mathematical puzzles, etc.
No one tells me what to believe. I decide that myself. x
What upset me is that i was demanded to read TS and stop posting on the forum - and this was told to me on a thread that had nothing to do with TS. It all got too much for me and wasnt how i expected a hoax forum to behave.
It should be about TRUTH. Without the truth we are lost. No lies, no secrets, we should all be on the same page and share what we know without discrimination.
I dont know if Michael is dead or alive.. all i want is the truth and that is what i am searching and working for.
I hope people can now realise that instead of leaning and relying on these shadowy internet characters like "TS" - we should be investigating, learning and sharing together as one. We can do it on our own.
-
TS has proved his/her information is correct. He/She predicted specific event's over the course of this that have materialized.
I'm not part of some blind faith brigade. If TS couldn't back up his/her info then I wouldn't waste my time on him/her, either.
-
I'm asking this politely and not out of malice, because I honestly feel I'm just misinformed. TS has made several posts, yes I understand, explaining the numerology, and Biblical references, telling us things that will happen before the actual do. Proving to be right every time. (Has he been wrong yet?) I'm not understanding why he continues to do this. This just seems like manuveurs to prove to US that he's legit, which most people have already made up there mind about. So why keep posting? He's not offering us much (except maybe things that will happen in a few days/weeks time) which we'll obviously figure out when it happens. He must also know that there is controversy surrounding the whole account, and if I were him I would just leave. Not because I'm fed up with people disagreeing with me, but because I would feel its the moral thing to do so I wouldn't upset anyone else. He doesn't seem to have much feeling, which sways me away from thinking he's Michael or a Jackson for that matter.
My stand point is I couldn't care less about who TS is. I don't read his/her posts anymore so it doesn't affect me. But if it's affecting the forum as a whole, upsetting (almost) everyone, why stay?
-
TS has proved his/her information is correct. He/She predicted specific event's over the course of this that have materialized.
I'm not part of some blind faith brigade. If TS couldn't back up his/her info then I wouldn't waste my time on him/her, either.
And you have every right to read and investigate which ever area you choose to.. and if you choose to read TS and belief in this person that that is no problem whatsoever.
The problem i had with it all is that I was being told by admins on this forum that i MUST believe in TS. Thats TS was telling the truth and that i MUST read all his posts and trust and believe in this person. That i MUST stop posting on the forum and use my time to read TS instead.
Thats not investigation to me. Thats PR.
Yes, you can point people in a direction and say "hey, you might want to look at this link or see what this person has to say" - but never demand and tell people that they MUST read it and they MUST trust this person.
Read what you want to read. Believe what you want to believe. Just as long as its your own decision than that is fine.
As an investigation i dont believe anyone should be shut down (and that includes TS) - and no one should be forced into going down a particular avenue in their investigations.
Ok... Im out the argument now. This was the reason i left the forum in the first place. :lol:
Im not into making waves and causing arguments.
SEARCH FOR THE TRUTH!!! NOT TO PROVE A THEORY... JUST TO UNCOVER THE TRUTH!!!
-
We are not getting any redirects from TS just because of that kind of behaviour!!!! So we are sort of punished now!
My jaw just dropped on the floor. I am surprised to see that anyone could give to another member the power of "punishment". *Shaking my head*
-
This is true, but I'd like to see that TS has to say at this moment there are so many questions about it.
Yes, I am waiting as well.
I read again the last post TS made and it is a mix of everything.
At times I read i understand that is a "MJ producer", another time I believe i read it is someone "cooperating with tmz" , other times that is just a member with theories.....
I should be getting lost in the translation because nothing is said clearly, all the info about "who am I and how do i get my info" from TS looks ambiguous.
TS explained that is not murder, that i get, but i want to know how he could predict the events regarding MJ. The only way is knowing in advance and i want to know how come.
-
Who is TS to punish anyone? ... would be something like, if you believe in me all goes well, if you do not believe in me and start asking questions and has topics about punishment you
-
Who is TS to punish anyone? ... would be something like, if you believe in me all goes well, if you do not believe in me and start asking questions and has topics about punishment you
GOD, TS is GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
-
Hi everyone,
I think we all compeletely lost the track by accusing each other.
So I would like to ask those who are doing this all the time: are you happy with what you are doing?
We are not getting any redirects from TS just because of that kind of behaviour!!!! So we are sort of punished now!
So according to you the unfolding of the hoax completely depends on TS..? The hoax already existed before TS entered, and will continue with or without TS's redirects and posts. Be careful to not become dependent on ONE person.
So why did you allow TS's posts in the first place???!!!! To confuse us?????
What about that numerology thing??? I think it makes sense and I believe in him.
Aren't we suppose to believe in him if we want to? Or don't you want us to even if we make up our minds and think he is telling the truth? And yes, several members said that he is giving us valuable information. Well, I'm missing these pieces information. Do you have something against this????
-
:lol: :lol: :lol:
-
Gema » Sat Dec 11, 2010 6:45 pm
paula-c wrote:
Who is TS to punish anyone? ... would be something like, if you believe in me all goes well, if you do not believe in me and start asking questions and has topics about punishment you
GOD, TS is GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD
:lol: :lol: :lol: I want to clarify that I'm laughing at the post of Gema :lol:
-
Who is TS to punish anyone? ... would be something like, if you believe in me all goes well, if you do not believe in me and start asking questions and has topics about punishment you
Not providing enough information is really a very bad punishment if this information is really needed. And yes, I see it as a punishment!!!! He wrote that there will be no redirects anymore. If I'm sad I won't talks to certain people because they pissed me of. And if these people really need me I will punish them with not talking to them and not offering my help to them. I hope you got my point.
-
Who is TS to punish anyone? ... would be something like, if you believe in me all goes well, if you do not believe in me and start asking questions and has topics about punishment you
Not providing enough information is really a very bad punishment if this information is really needed. And yes, I see it as a punishment!!!! He wrote that there will be no redirects anymore. If I'm sad I won't talks to certain people because they pissed me of. And if these people really need me I will punish them with not talking to them and not offering my help to them. I hope you got my point.
What make you think that TS could be that passive aggresive?
I honestly think that TS will give info when he has info/ opinions to give, independently if he is upset or not.
He is in the same boat than us, proving that MJ is not dead, so "his info" was out there since always by his own choice. Nobody forced him to write those posts and redirections.
The investigation will go on with or without numbers and biblic quotes.
If TS vanishes, another member will take over or another "insider".
At the end, we are the ones individually who must get clousure.
TS predicted events in advance, but also predicted other events which did not come through.
Most of us are here because we did not believe that MJ died on June 25th 2009.
TS is a "door opener, thought opener" as other members are with great investigations.
-
Who is TS to punish anyone? ... would be something like, if you believe in me all goes well, if you do not believe in me and start asking questions and has topics about punishment you
Not providing enough information is really a very bad punishment if this information is really needed. And yes, I see it as a punishment!!!! He wrote that there will be no redirects anymore. If I'm sad I won't talks to certain people because they pissed me of. And if these people really need me I will punish them with not talking to them and not offering my help to them. I hope you got my point.
Sounds like the actions of a child, to me.
-
Who is TS to punish anyone? ... would be something like, if you believe in me all goes well, if you do not believe in me and start asking questions and has topics about punishment you
Not providing enough information is really a very bad punishment if this information is really needed. And yes, I see it as a punishment!!!! He wrote that there will be no redirects anymore. If I'm sad I won't talks to certain people because they pissed me of. And if these people really need me I will punish them with not talking to them and not offering my help to them. I hope you got my point.
Sounds like the actions of a child, to me.
If you are mad at someone you could do anything!!! Remember the fight of our admins?! What do you call that? I'm not saying that this is a right behavior and that I'm supporting it. I'm just trying to explain why I see this as a punishment so please don't get me wrong. Sometimes a mother does it also to her child when she sees that her child doesn't want to obey her although she is warning him. She leaves him to have his own experience in life even if he gets hurt. Do you like this example more?
-
If you are mad at someone you could do anything!!! Remember the fight of our admins?! What do you call that? I'm not saying that this is a right behavior and that I'm supporting it. I'm just trying to explain why I see this as a punishment so please don't get me wrong. Sometimes a mother does it also to her child when she sees that her child doesn't want to obey her although she is warning him. She leaves him to have his own experience in life even if he gets hurt. Do you like this example more?
Hey Diggy. Im not attacking you. PEACE!
I totally understand where you are coming from.
But it shouldnt be like this. If someone has information then they should just give it out in an honest and fair way. xx
I guess i am tired of the drip drip of cryptic clues.... 8-)
-
If you are mad at someone you could do anything!!! Remember the fight of our admins?! What do you call that? I'm not saying that this is a right behavior and that I'm supporting it. I'm just trying to explain why I see this as a punishment so please don't get me wrong. Sometimes a mother does it also to her child when she sees that her child doesn't want to obey her although she is warning him. She leaves him to have his own experience in life even if he gets hurt. Do you like this example more?
Hey Diggy. Im not attacking you. PEACE!
I totally understand where you are coming from.
But it shouldnt be like this. If someone has information then they should just give it out in an honest and fair way. xx
I guess i am tired of the drip drip of cryptic clues.... 8-)
Sorry, I am not American. So could you please tell me what" where you're coming from" means???
-
here your coming from=What you are saying/what you mean/I undertand your point of view...
It isn't an American only phrase.
and TS has no right to punish anyone unless at the end he decides to tell everyone he is infact Michael Jackson which I highly doubt is likely.This is MICHAEL'S hoz not TS's.
He is a member-all be it a respected more than most member-but non the less...a member of this forum.
-
He wrote that there will be no redirects anymore.
Well, if he did not want to do but it is your problem, here we will continue with or without TS, besides that I think it would be immature and arrogant attitude, or perhaps because it no longer grounds for debate.
-
Where your coming from=What you are saying/what you mean/I undertand your point of view...
It isn't an American only phrase.
and TS has no right to punish anyone unless at the end he decides to tell everyone he is infact Michael Jackson which I highly doubt is likely.This is MICHAEL'S hoz not TS's.
He is a member-all be it a respected more than most member-but non the less...a member of this forum.
In my haste to reply....I made a spelling error.woops
Sorry. Hoax not not hoz LOL.
That is all.
-
Hi everyone,
I think we all compeletely lost the track by accusing each other.
So I would like to ask those who are doing this all the time: are you happy with what you are doing?
We are not getting any redirects from TS just because of that kind of behaviour!!!! So we are sort of punished now!
Ithink this is terrible!!!!!!!! It's sad to admit this but i think it's just the human nature!!!!!!!!
We start to talk about love and Michael's message an so on and so on...... and we end up with no new redirects anymore....
accusations...... suspision..............What are you doing people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think it's about tome to wake up and to realize that what you are doing is completely wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is reminding me of the famous novel "Lord of the Flies" . It's about some children who got lost on an Island because of an airplane crash. In order to survive they formed some kind of a group with a group leader. Then they started to have their own tribe regulations and began to punish each others just like adults do. They ended up with behaving like kaniballs and wanted to hunt the weakest childern down in order to eat them. In this novel the narrator wants to emphasize that no matter how civilized human beings nowadays are, they will reach the point where thy would return to their savage origins because it's just our human nature. When I read the forum I think he is completely right.
This is toooooo saaaaaaad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I hope you are joking....
Who's TS? Our lives and opinions don't hinge on that one overly mysterious person.
As Michael once said in a song..."you keep dreaming..."
-
If you are mad at someone you could do anything!!! Remember the fight of our admins?! What do you call that? I'm not saying that this is a right behavior and that I'm supporting it. I'm just trying to explain why I see this as a punishment so please don't get me wrong. Sometimes a mother does it also to her child when she sees that her child doesn't want to obey her although she is warning him. She leaves him to have his own experience in life even if he gets hurt. Do you like this example more?
Hey Diggy. Im not attacking you. PEACE!
I totally understand where you are coming from.
But it shouldnt be like this. If someone has information then they should just give it out in an honest and fair way. xx
I guess i am tired of the drip drip of cryptic clues.... 8-)
I agree and I'm hoping we hear more of your thoughts that you didn't feel you were able to share. I think what we're seeing is that we have a group of people on this forum that have learned to think for themselves (maybe we've learned that too well - lol) and not so much having the need to be spoon fed information anymore.
Diggyon - since you used an example, I will too. It's like when a person is sick or weak. You feed them and help nourish them back to health. But, if you continue to spoon feed them instead of teaching them to feed themselves, you will never have anything more than a grown baby. In fact, I think TS said herself that we need to think for ourselves.
If TS is going to withhold information because of people standing up for truth then what she's doing is nothing more than a form of manipulation.
Blessings to each of you.
-
I like that I bless, blessings to you voiceforthesilent :)
-
http://twitpic.com/3f0p8g
HAHAHAHAHAHA.....So awesome.
-
[center:3hietke6]I always thought that TS was Hermaphrodite where is the SHE evidence coming from may I ask?[/center:3hietke6]
Clearly it is an important piece of information and I am interested in the source of this info. The source probably know who TS is and it is worthwhile investigating further.
With L.O.V.E
Disclaimer: My interest is the TRUTH, too many LIES are spread by TROLLS and accepted for TRUTH.
-
Gema » Sat Dec 11, 2010 6:45 pm
paula-c wrote:
Who is TS to punish anyone? ... would be something like, if you believe in me all goes well, if you do not believe in me and start asking questions and has topics about punishment you
GOD, TS is GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD
:lol: :lol: :lol: I want to clarify that I'm laughing at the post of Gema :lol:
she has been on a roll lately ;) keep it coming girl i could use some laughs about now
-
[center:b9hx6zhg]I always thought that TS was Hermaphrodite where is the SHE evidence coming from may I ask?[/center:b9hx6zhg]
Clearly it is an important piece of information and I am interested in the source of this info. The source probably know who TS is and it is worthwhile investigating further.
With L.O.V.E
Disclaimer: My interest is the TRUTH, too many LIES are spread by TROLLS and accepted for TRUTH.
Some people use "he" because they think it's a he. I use "she" because I think it's a she. I could use "it" but I don't think that's very nice. That's all.
I have tried not responding to TS topics but I felt I needed to because I believe that we're being too distracted during this important and historic time.
I have been totally amazed at the brilliant minds of quite a few people on this forum - how you all are able to piece together information, see through the veils, and stay on course to find the truth. I have learned a lot from you all and could never have gotten this far without out. Thank you.
My whole intent these last couple of days in being more vocal towards the truth is that I feel like we are losing focus on what is important. Michael.
God bless Michael Jackson. May he find victory in the fight and may we all be there in the end holding hands to celebrate in his success because it's never been more deserving.
-
[center:v4769opy]I always thought that TS was Hermaphrodite where is the SHE evidence coming from may I ask?[/center:v4769opy]
Clearly it is an important piece of information and I am interested in the source of this info. The source probably know who TS is and it is worthwhile investigating further.
With L.O.V.E
Disclaimer: My interest is the TRUTH, too many LIES are spread by TROLLS and accepted for TRUTH.
Some people use "he" because they think it's a he. I use "she" because I think it's a she. I could use "it" but I don't think that's very nice. That's all.
I have tried not responding to TS topics but I felt I needed to because I believe that we're being too distracted during this important and historic time.
I have been totally amazed at the brilliant minds of quite a few people on this forum - how you all are able to piece together information, see through the veils, and stay on course to find the truth. I have learned a lot from you all and could never have gotten this far without out. Thank you.
My whole intent these last couple of days in being more vocal towards the truth is that I feel like we are losing focus on what is important. Michael.
God bless Michael Jackson. May he find victory in the fight and may we all be there in the end holding hands to celebrate in his success because it's never been more deserving.
Peace to you Voiceforthesilent,
The unbiased Truth is what matters.
To regroup, we will need one Truth to unite us all
Only then we will be able to move forward
We are all entitled to our opinions and I respect yours - My intention was purely to clarify the use of "SHE" in the context of TS and understand whether it was backed up by any evidence(s); You have truthfully answered my question - THANK YOU.
I think Lady Gaga has been rather busy this year and as she is the only "possible alleged" hermaphrodite I can think of, I probably need to revise my own theory! ;)
With L.O.V.E
-
Well, for what it's worth, I think TS was likely legitimate, if not MJ himself, and I'm slightly perturbed that he was chased off of the forum. Because he was chased off in my opinion. And I don't see the point in that. It's quite akin to shooting yourself in the foot, I think.
But I've said it before and I really believe it, I doubt MJ will throw the towel in on a 25 year long project of a lifetime over a few personalities behaving badly on the forum. The hoax will go on, even if the bad apples get us all thrown out of our front row seats. No matter. It's not about us.
But back to TS, I cannot ignore or disregard the information nor the connections, nor the apparent circle of influence, and I think to do such a thing is foolish. And I think it's especially foolish if you call yourself a hoaxer. Open minds gather knowledge.
I understand getting scared, losing faith, growing weary... but there are certain things, a laundry list of certain things, that are undeniable in this hoax... that will always bring me back to hoax no matter what happens, and a couple of them are in regards to TS.
-
I now I have much interest in knowing who is going to spend December 14 with the case of Eliza
-
Well, for what it's worth, I think TS was likely legitimate, if not MJ himself, and I'm slightly perturbed that he was chased off of the forum. Because he was chased off in my opinion. And I don't see the point in that. It's quite akin to shooting yourself in the foot, I think.
But I've said it before and I really believe it, I doubt MJ will throw the towel in on a 25 year long project of a lifetime over a few personalities behaving badly on the forum. The hoax will go on, even if the bad apples get us all thrown out of our front row seats. No matter. It's not about us.
But back to TS, I cannot ignore or disregard the information nor the connections, nor the apparent circle of influence, and I think to do such a thing is foolish. And I think it's especially foolish if you call yourself a hoaxer. Open minds gather knowledge.
I understand getting scared, losing faith, growing weary... but there are certain things, a laundry list of certain things, that are undeniable in this hoax... that will always bring me back to hoax no matter what happens, and a couple of them are in regards to TS.
I agree bec although I'm not sure about TS being chased off the forum. I think he is sitting back, watching and waiting. I don't think we've heard the last from TS nor do I think the re-directs are over. Whether a person chooses to believe TS is legit or not can't argue that there are too many coincidences with TS that can't really be coincidences. Thinking for ourselves has shown us that much and if a person is truly thinking for his or herself and still chooses to call TS a fake, then at least it's their own choice, even if it may be incorrect. I can't say what's right or wrong, it's not my place - I can only say what I think and I've said all along and that is that I believe TS does know something about the hoax and if any of the members of this forum are in contact with Michael, it's TS.
And I agree this hoax will carry on no matter what. Believe what TS writes, don't believe it - as long as we are thinking for ourselves and conducting ourselves in a peaceful manner then we should be fine.
-
Well, for what it's worth, I think TS was likely legitimate, if not MJ himself, and I'm slightly perturbed that he was chased off of the forum. Because he was chased off in my opinion. And I don't see the point in that. It's quite akin to shooting yourself in the foot, I think.
But I've said it before and I really believe it, I doubt MJ will throw the towel in on a 25 year long project of a lifetime over a few personalities behaving badly on the forum. The hoax will go on, even if the bad apples get us all thrown out of our front row seats. No matter. It's not about us.
But back to TS, I cannot ignore or disregard the information nor the connections, nor the apparent circle of influence, and I think to do such a thing is foolish. And I think it's especially foolish if you call yourself a hoaxer. Open minds gather knowledge.
I understand getting scared, losing faith, growing weary... but there are certain things, a laundry list of certain things, that are undeniable in this hoax... that will always bring me back to hoax no matter what happens, and a couple of them are in regards to TS.
Totally Agree with you Bec ;)
Hopefully He sees the good apples amongst the rest! It is not the Quantity but the Quality that counts!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. ~Margaret Meade
With L.O.V.E
PS: I really don't like bad apples...the taste or the texture... I really don't. No disclaimer, simple fact![/b]
-
[youtube:1btk0x13]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2UM5iDxbBQ[/youtube:1btk0x13]
http://www.jeremiahproject.com/prophecy/deception.html (http://www.jeremiahproject.com/prophecy/deception.html)
Dangerous Deceptions
But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.
2 Corinthians 11:3-4
The deception infiltrating the church was driven home for me recently after receiving an email from a visitor to this site. He generally agreed with what he read here, but took issue with an article about one of the pseudo-Christian movements. He pointed out the movement was about holy living through the power of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. At the same time, he agreed there were counterfeit teachings in the movement and defended them because in his view, counterfeit teachings are found in all denominations. He was willing to embrace the movements abberant teachings in exchange for the "signs and wonders." This is precisely the nature of deception Paul referred to in 2 Cor. 11:3-4 and is why deceptive gospels are so destructive to the Church.
As Paul said, "you put up with it easily enough."
Satan is the arch-counterfeiter.
The Devil is now busy at work in the same field in which the Lord sowed the good seed. He is seeking to prevent the growth of the wheat by another plant, the tares, which closely resembles the wheat in appearance. In a word, by a process of imitation he is aiming to neutralize the Work of Christ. Therefore, as Christ has a Gospel, Satan has a gospel too; the latter being a clever counterfeit of the former. So closely does the gospel of Satan resemble that which it parodies, multitudes of the unsaved are deceived by it.
Satan's primary tactic in opposing God is not to foster atheism but religion; not to prove there is no God but to be worshipped as God.
Satan is not an initiator but an imitator. God has an only begotten Son - the Lord Jesus, and so has Satan - "the son of Perdition" (2 Thess. 2:3). There is a Holy Trinity, and there is likewise a Trinity of Evil (Rev. 20:10). As we read of the "children of God," so also we read of "the children of the wicked one" (Matt. 13:38). As there is a "mystery of godliness (1 Tim. 3:6), so also is there a "mystery of iniquity" (2 Thess. 2:7). We are told that God by His angels "seals" His servants in their foreheads (Rev. 7:3), so also, we learn that Satan by his agents sets a mark in the foreheads of his devotees (Rev. 13:16). Are we told that "the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God" (1 Cor. 2:10), then Satan also provides his "deep things (see Greek of Rev. 2:24). Did Christ perform miracles, so also can Satan (2 Thess. 2:9). Is Christ seated upon a throne, so is Satan (Rev. 2:13 - Gr.). Has Christ a Church, then Satan has his "synagogue" (Rev. 2:9). Is Christ the Light of the world, then so is Satan himself "transformed into an angel of light" (2 Cor. 11:14). Did Christ appoint "apostles," then Satan has his apostles, too (2 Cor. 11:13).
Satan has been in the "another gospel" business for a long time. He still asks modern man the same question he offered Eve, "Did God really say?" (Gen. 3) His goal then as now, especially since the glorious good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ burst onto the world scene nearly 2000 years ago, has always been to produce a counterfeit gospel, which would replace the true, and keep men in darkness and spiritual slumber.
In order "to mislead, if it were possible, even God's own people" [Phillips trans.], the evil one has inspired false prophets to preach error. To be effective, it often is truly seductive: evil will appear harmless or even good. A sugar-coated gospel is much easier to swallow. It is very attractive to accept the blessings without the cross; to choose our own path over "the way, the truth, and the life", to say, "My will be done."
"Woe unto them who call evil, good, and good, evil" [Isaiah 5:20]
The gospel of Satan is not a system of revolutionary principles, nor yet a program of anarchy. It does not promote strife and war, but aims at peace and unity. It seeks not to set the mother against her daughter nor the father against his son, but fosters the fraternal spirit whereby the human race is regarded as one great "brotherhood." It does not seek to drag down the natural man, but to improve and uplift him. It advocates education and cultivation and appeals to "the best that is within us." It aims to make this world such a comfortable and congenial habitat that Christ's absence from it will not be felt and God will not be needed. It endeavors to occupy man so much with this world that he has no time or inclination to think of the world to come. It propagates the principles of self-sacrifice, charity and benevolence, and teaches us to live for the good of others, and to be kind to all. It appeals strongly to the carnal mind and is popular with the masses, because it ignores the solemn facts that by nature man is a fallen creature, alienated from the life of God, and dead in trespasses and sins, and that his only hope lies in being born again.
In antithesis to the Gospel of Christ, the gospel of Satan teaches salvation by works. It inculcates justification before God on the ground of human merits. Its sacramental phrase is "Be good and do good"; but it fails to recognize that in the flesh there dwelleth no good thing. It announces salvation by character, which reverses the order of God's Word - character by, as the fruit of, salvation. Its various ramifications and organizations are manifold. Temperance, Reform Movements, "Christian Socialist Leagues," Ethical Culture Societies, "Peace Congresses" are all employed (perhaps unconsciously) in proclaiming this gospel of Satan - salvation by works. The pledge-card is substituted for Christ; social purity for individual regeneration, and politics and philosophy, for doctrine and godliness. The cultivation of the old man is considered more "practical" than the creation of a new man in Christ Jesus; whilst universal peace is looked for apart from the interposition and return of the Prince of Peace.
Prophecy Fulfilled
New doctrines, new revelations and new gospels are springing up almost daily. Some have been with us for some time. Many have been previously debunked, yet some people tenaciously hang on to them. And it's going to get much worse. The Bible clearly warns that in the last days strange doctrines will come forth - introducing another Jesus, another Spirit, another gospel (Matt. 24:4-5; 2 Tim. 3:1-5).
The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. [1 Thessalonians 2:9-10]
Even a cursory review of what has taken place in the Church during the last 25 years will reveal a fierce underming of the faith. Precisely as the Bible warns (Mt. 7:21-23; 24:4,11,24; 2 Thes 2:3; etc.), today's most effective enemies of Christ are those who claim to be Christians and call mankind not just to any old false religion but to a counterfeit Christianity.
In some respects, believers of Paul's day "had it easy" compared to this generation. In those days the opposition to truth was in the secular world around them - it had not yet infiltrated the Church under the guise of a more enlightened or advanced Christianity. While there were pressing pagan influences as well as some heretical teachings and practices here and there, they weren't subjected to anything like the flood of false beliefs, teachings, and practices surging in on the tidal wave of today's Christian media.
Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
[Matthew 7:15-20]
Jesus warned us that these false prophets will come to us in sheeps clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. False prophets won't come saying that they are deceiving us. No, they will sound good and will claim they are telling the truth. So, rather than judging them by their words, we are instructed to judge the messenger by their fruit.
The corporate owned mass media is flooded with deceptive messages and in many cases outright propaganda designed to manipulate society into their collectivist mold.
Within most mainline churches today, and even many evangelical churches, rather than demanding objective truth about the world around them, too many people are willing to believe whatever seems to agree with their preconceived attitudes. The pragmatic belief is that the ends justify the means. Hence, we see militia groups abounding, claiming a Christian heritage yet spreading hate towards Jews. Others in the Patriot Movement attempting to expose the New World Order are seen as kooks and their message nothing more than conspiracy theory. Other Christian churches are populated with people who justify violence toward abortion mills and homosexual groups. In many Christian churches you find those who view drinking alcohol or "a little wine" (1 Tim. 5:23) as a sin. And in nearly all Christian churches the congregation rushes to accept politically correct but misleading facts about smoking.
The popular church of the 21st Century pretends to adhere to the truth, yet quietly undermines it. Experience and emotion are substituted for the Word of God as its basis of faith. Any time we make emotional "religious experiences" or various signs and wonders the criterion of our faith, we thereby open the floodgates to every sort of delusion. If experience or emotion becomes the standard of our faith, then we must accept the validity of any experience from which someone gains a "religious" sensation: the ancient ritual prostitution at pagan temples; the frenzied worship of Bacchus; the Moslem dervishes and followers of the Ayatollah Khomeini and his successors.
In fact, all religious experiences must be tested for agreement with Scripture before they can be accepted as genuinely from God. Scripture is the objective criterion which permits us to separate true experiences of God from delusions of the evil one. All of our religious experiences must be verified by Scripture; Scripture is not proved by them.
They perish because they refused to love the truth. [2 Thessalonians 2:10]
Without a love for truth and a mental storehouse filled with God's Word, people cannot discern error. Many are drawn to the self-focused empowerment of goddess-philosophy, christian cults, and psychological-spiritual imitations. Like rudderless boats in the night, they cascade down the rapids trapped in a raging social current headed for destruction. You can clearly see this operating today in "multiculturalism" and "political correctness" where we are told to embrace, accept and tolerate things the Bible clearly condemns.
See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ. [Colossians 2:8]
The average American Christian defines God as Love, a word which is understood from a "feelings" humanistic and temporal viewpoint. This definition does not cause any problems to a sinful lifestyle, for the concept of tolerant love does not include the reality of a HOLY God, a JUST God, and a TRUE God.
The Love of God is also Just, which is not concerned with our comfort and feelings, but with what is Right. The Love of God is HOLY, which is destructive to sinful living and the carnal nature and is not tolerant toward rebellion and willful ignorance.
The question is, do you KNOW God in Christ Jesus ... as He has revealed Himself in the Scriptures? Have you read His Book? Have you studied it? How can you be sure you know the real God in Christ Jesus if you have not studied what He has said about Himself?
In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God's word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.
Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. And God permitting, we will do so.
Hebrews 5:12-6:3
Take the following info how you wish. I see the below characteristics to be Human Nature. I see this happening here on this board by believers. Insight to how a players mind really works...lol
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/socio ... game13.htm (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/sociopol_endgame13.htm)
Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation
1. Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil
Regardless of what you know, don't discuss it - especially if you are a public figure, news anchor, etc. If it's not reported, it didn't happen, and you never have to deal with the issues.
2. Become incredulous and indignant
Avoid discussing key issues and instead focus on side issues which can be used to show the topic as being critical of some otherwise sacrosanct group or theme. This is also known as the 'How dare you!' gambit.
3. Create rumor mongers
Avoid discussing issues by describing all charges, regardless of venue or evidence, as mere rumors and wild accusations. Other derogatory terms mutually exclusive of truth may work as well. This method which works especially well with a silent press, because the only way the public can learn of the facts are through such 'arguable rumors'. If you can associate the material with the Internet, use this fact to certify it a 'wild rumor' from a 'bunch of kids on the Internet' which can have no basis in fact.
4. Use a straw man
Find or create a seeming element of your opponent's argument which you can easily knock down to make yourself look good and the opponent to look bad. Either make up an issue you may safely imply exists based on your interpretation of the opponent/opponent arguments/situation, or select the weakest aspect of the weakest charges. Amplify their significance and destroy them in a way which appears to debunk all the charges, real and fabricated alike, while actually avoiding discussion of the real issues.
5. Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule
This is also known as the primary 'attack the messenger' ploy, though other methods qualify as variants of that approach. Associate opponents with unpopular titles such as 'kooks', 'right-wing', 'liberal', 'left-wing', 'terrorists', 'conspiracy buffs', 'radicals', 'militia', 'racists', 'religious fanatics', 'sexual deviates', and so forth. This makes others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues.
6. Hit and Run
In any public forum, make a brief attack of your opponent or the opponent position and then scamper off before an answer can be fielded, or simply ignore any answer. This works extremely well in Internet and letters-to-the-editor environments where a steady stream of new identities can be called upon without having to explain criticism reasoning - simply make an accusation or other attack, never discussing issues, and never answering any subsequent response, for that would dignify the opponent's viewpoint.
7. Question motives
Twist or amplify any fact which could be taken to imply that the opponent operates out of a hidden personal agenda or other bias. This avoids discussing issues and forces the accuser on the defensive.
8. Invoke authority
Claim for yourself or associate yourself with authority and present your argument with enough 'jargon' and 'minutia' to illustrate you are 'one who knows', and simply say it isn't so without discussing issues or demonstrating concretely why or citing sources.
9. Play Dumb
No matter what evidence or logical argument is offered, avoid discussing issues except with denials they have any credibility, make any sense, provide any proof, contain or make a point, have logic, or support a conclusion. Mix well for maximum effect.
10. Associate opponent charges with old news
A derivative of the straw man - usually, in any large-scale matter of high visibility, someone will make charges early on which can be or were already easily dealt with - a kind of investment for the future should the matter not be so easily contained.) Where it can be foreseen, have your own side raise a straw man issue and have it dealt with early on as part of the initial contingency plans. Subsequent charges, regardless of validity or new ground uncovered, can usually then be associated with the original charge and dismissed as simply being a rehash without need to address current issues - so much the better where the opponent is or was involved with the original source.
11. Establish and rely upon fall-back positions
Using a minor matter or element of the facts, take the 'high road' and 'confess' with candor that some innocent mistake, in hindsight, was made - but that opponents have seized on the opportunity to blow it all out of proportion and imply greater criminalities which, 'just isn't so.' Others can reinforce this on your behalf, later, and even publicly 'call for an end to the nonsense' because you have already 'done the right thing.' Done properly, this can garner sympathy and respect for 'coming clean' and 'owning up' to your mistakes without addressing more serious issues.
12. Enigmas have no solution
Drawing upon the overall umbrella of events surrounding the crime and the multitude of players and events, paint the entire affair as too complex to solve. This causes those otherwise following the matter to begin to loose interest more quickly without having to address the actual issues.
13. Alice in Wonderland Logic
Avoid discussion of the issues by reasoning backwards or with an apparent deductive logic which forbears any actual material fact.
14. Demand complete solutions
Avoid the issues by requiring opponents to solve the crime at hand completely, a ploy which works best with issues qualifying for rule 10.
15. Fit the facts to alternate conclusions
This requires creative thinking unless the crime was planned with contingency conclusions in place.
16. Vanish evidence and witnesses
If it does not exist, it is not fact, and you won't have to address the issue.
17. Change the subject
Usually in connection with one of the other ploys listed here, find a way to side-track the discussion with abrasive or controversial comments in hopes of turning attention to a new, more manageable topic. This works especially well with companions who can 'argue' with you over the new topic and polarize the discussion arena in order to avoid discussing more key issues.
18. Emotionalize, Antagonize, and Goad Opponents
If you can't do anything else, chide and taunt your opponents and draw them into emotional responses which will tend to make them look foolish and overly motivated, and generally render their material somewhat less coherent. Not only will you avoid discussing the issues in the first instance, but even if their emotional response addresses the issue, you can further avoid the issues by then focusing on how 'sensitive they are to criticism.'
19. Ignore facts presented, demand impossible proofs
This is perhaps a variant of the 'play dumb' rule. Regardless of what material may be presented by an opponent in public forums, claim the material irrelevant and demand proof that is impossible for the opponent to come by (it may exist, but not be at his disposal, or it may be something which is known to be safely destroyed or withheld, such as a murder weapon.) In order to completely avoid discussing issues, it may be required that you to categorically deny and be critical of media or books as valid sources, deny that witnesses are acceptable, or even deny that statements made by government or other authorities have any meaning or relevance.
20. False evidence
Whenever possible, introduce new facts or clues designed and manufactured to conflict with opponent presentations - as useful tools to neutralize sensitive issues or impede resolution. This works best when the crime was designed with contingencies for the purpose, and the facts cannot be easily separated from the fabrications.
21. Call a Grand Jury, Special Prosecutor, or other empowered investigative body
Subvert the (process) to your benefit and effectively neutralize all sensitive issues without open discussion. Once convened, the evidence and testimony are required to be secret when properly handled. For instance, if you own the prosecuting attorney, it can insure a Grand Jury hears no useful evidence and that the evidence is sealed an unavailable to subsequent investigators. Once a favorable verdict is achieved, the matter can be considered officially closed. Usually, this technique is applied to find the guilty innocent, but it can also be used to obtain charges when seeking to frame a victim.
22. Manufacture a new truth
Create your own expert(s), group(s), author(s), leader(s) or influence existing ones willing to forge new ground via scientific, investigative, or social research or testimony which concludes favorably. In this way, if you must actually address issues, you can do so authoritatively.
23. Create bigger distractions
If the above does not seem to be working to distract from sensitive issues, or to prevent unwanted media coverage of unstoppable events such as trials, create bigger news stories (or treat them as such) to distract the multitudes.
24. Silence critics
If the above methods do not prevail, consider removing opponents from circulation by some definitive solution so that the need to address issues is removed entirely. This can be by their death, arrest and detention, blackmail or destruction of their character by release of blackmail information, or merely by destroying them financially, emotionally, or severely damaging their health.
25. Vanish
If you are a key holder of secrets or otherwise overly illuminated and you think the heat is getting too hot, to avoid the issues, vacate the kitchen.
Eight Traits of the Disinformationalist
1. Avoidance
They never actually discuss issues head-on or provide constructive input, generally avoiding citation of references or credentials. Rather, they merely imply this, that, and the other. Virtually everything about their presentation implies their authority and expert knowledge in the matter without any further justification for credibility.
2. Selectivity
They tend to pick and choose opponents carefully, either applying the hit-and-run approach against mere commentators supportive of opponents, or focusing heavier attacks on key opponents who are known to directly address issues. Should a commentator become argumentative with any success, the focus will shift to include the commentator as well.
3. Coincidental
They tend to surface suddenly and somewhat coincidentally with a new controversial topic with no clear prior record of participation in general discussions in the particular public arena involved. They likewise tend to vanish once the topic is no longer of general concern. They were likely directed or elected to be there for a reason, and vanish with the reason.
4. Teamwork
They tend to operate in self-congratulatory and complementary packs or teams. Of course, this can happen naturally in any public forum, but there will likely be an ongoing pattern of frequent exchanges of this sort where professionals are involved. Sometimes one of the players will infiltrate the opponent camp to become a source for straw man or other tactics designed to dilute opponent presentation strength.
5. Anti-conspiratorial
They almost always have disdain for 'conspiracy theorists' and, usually, for those who in any way believe JFK was not killed by LHO. Ask yourself why, if they hold such disdain for conspiracy theorists, do they focus on defending a single topic discussed in a NG focusing on conspiracies? One might think they would either be trying to make fools of everyone on every topic, or simply ignore the group they hold in such disdain. Or, one might more rightly conclude they have an ulterior motive for their actions in going out of their way to focus as they do.
6. Artificial Emotions
An odd kind of 'artificial' emotionalism and an unusually thick skin - an ability to persevere and persist even in the face of overwhelming criticism and unacceptance. This likely stems from intelligence community training that, no matter how condemning the evidence, deny everything, and never become emotionally involved or reactive. The net result for a disinfo artist is that emotions can seem artificial. Most people, if responding in anger, for instance, will express their animosity throughout their rebuttal.
But disinfo types usually have trouble maintaining the 'image' and are hot and cold with respect to pretended emotions and their usually more calm or unemotional communications style. It's just a job, and they often seem unable to 'act their role in character' as well in a communications medium as they might be able in a real face-to-face conversation/confrontation.
You might have outright rage and indignation one moment, ho-hum the next, and more anger later - an emotional yo-yo. With respect to being thick-skinned, no amount of criticism will deter them from doing their job, and they will generally continue their old disinfo patterns without any adjustments to criticisms of how obvious it is that they play that game - where a more rational individual who truly cares what others think might seek to improve their communications style, substance, and so forth, or simply give up.
7. Inconsistent
There is also a tendency to make mistakes which betray their true self/motives. This may stem from not really knowing their topic, or it may be somewhat 'freudian', so to speak, in that perhaps they really root for the side of truth deep within.
I have noted that often, they will simply cite contradictory information which neutralizes itself and the author. For instance, one such player claimed to be a Navy pilot, but blamed his poor communicating skills (spelling, grammar, incoherent style) on having only a grade-school education.
I'm not aware of too many Navy pilots who don't have a college degree. Another claimed no knowledge of a particular topic/situation but later claimed first-hand knowledge of it.
8. Time Constant
There are three ways this can be seen to work, especially when the government or other empowered player is involved in a cover up operation:
ANY NG posting by a targeted proponent for truth can result in an IMMEDIATE response. The government and other empowered players can afford to pay people to sit there and watch for an opportunity to do some damage. SINCE DISINFO IN A NG ONLY WORKS IF THE READER SEES IT - FAST RESPONSE IS CALLED FOR, or the visitor may be swayed towards truth.
When dealing in more direct ways with a disinformationalist, such as email, DELAY IS CALLED FOR - there will usually be a minimum of a 48-72 hour delay. This allows a sit-down team discussion on response strategy for best effect, and even enough time to 'get permission' or instruction from a formal chain of command.
In the NG example a) above, it will often ALSO be seen that bigger guns are drawn and fired after the same 48-72 hours delay - the team approach in play. This is especially true when the targeted truth seeker or their comments are considered more important with respect to potential to reveal truth. Thus, a serious truth sayer will be attacked twice for the same sin.
Remarkably, not even media and law enforcement have NOT BEEN TRAINED to deal with these issues.
For the most part, only the players themselves understand the rules of the game.
-
Well, for what it's worth, I think TS was likely legitimate, if not MJ himself, and I'm slightly perturbed that he was chased off of the forum. Because he was chased off in my opinion. And I don't see the point in that. It's quite akin to shooting yourself in the foot, I think.
But I've said it before and I really believe it, I doubt MJ will throw the towel in on a 25 year long project of a lifetime over a few personalities behaving badly on the forum. The hoax will go on, even if the bad apples get us all thrown out of our front row seats. No matter. It's not about us.
But back to TS, I cannot ignore or disregard the information nor the connections, nor the apparent circle of influence, and I think to do such a thing is foolish. And I think it's especially foolish if you call yourself a hoaxer. Open minds gather knowledge.
I understand getting scared, losing faith, growing weary... but there are certain things, a laundry list of certain things, that are undeniable in this hoax... that will always bring me back to hoax no matter what happens, and a couple of them are in regards to TS.
Very well said, bec. I love your post. This is exactly what i was thinking of. We can never ignore TS that way. He is the only one who mentioned numerology in that hoax and explained it very well. I don't know why people keep ignoring that and saying that it's ok not to have TS anymore. He explained much and helped us understand many things and I'm really grateful for that!!!
-
This all is so sad when I first joined this forum I ate and slept this forum from day one but for the past month or so I decided to give myself a break from it for a while for the same reason the power play with the administrators, the disrespect, not being able to form your opinions freely and this same thing locking threads because of something that one of the administrators dont agree with or have issues about. I would come on sometimes just to see what is going on and its the same ole same ole. Nothing much has changed and it really disappoints me to see it getting to this point. I got to know alot about Michael's public life and some of his private life through this forum and I have learnt alot about 09/25/09 more than I ever had before and I appreciate it I have so much love and respect for Michael Jackson even more because of this forum but I think some of us are really losing sight of what this forum is suppose to be about, its not about Mo or Souza but about opinions and information and investigation and sharing and supporting and getting to the truth. Its been in my opinion such a confusing journey because there have been so many posters who claimed to know this and know that about Michael and what happened and have inside info. And so do we know who TS is, who is MO and who is SOUZA who are these people ? Do we know ? No we dont, at least I dont so what do we do just take their word as gospel it is so difficult to really believe anything that is said and it has been so disheartening sometimes because I dont really know what to believe and it began to wear me out. I truly believe that Michael is alive and I do believe that he does come on this forum sometimes but we really dont know who he comes on as or who anyone else is for that matter but we try to keep an open mind to every poster and decide for ourselves whether that person is genuine or a troll and I think that is what should be, not what Mo or Souza believes because as we see they dont always agree on the same things. So I feel it should be up to us to determine who is real or not real who is genuine or a troll and just respect each other and be honest with each other because we are all suppose to be here for the same reason or are we ?
-
The most encouraging factor in all this is that TRUTH WILL PREVAIL, no matter who posts which statements here or how we may want to chop each other.
Given this, we may not be so much important.
Or: we may be more important than we think.
It's again a matter of perspective and faith.
Every whoopla does keep us busy and gets in the way of making something positive out of our time and forces. (This is also a reason why we find who and what we find here.)
Make that change. Be a light in the world.
Let's use our precious gifts for this most important purpose of us being in the world.
We are not an accident.
We have a reason to stand tall and be proud and go do something about our causes.
We don't have any reason to sit in our room cutting each other's ponytails from behind.
That is just too girlish, isn't it?
Blessings to all.
-
The most encouraging factor in all this is that TRUTH WILL PREVAIL, no matter who posts which statements here or how we may want to chop each other.
Given this, we may not be so much important.
Or: we may be more important than we think.
It's again a matter of perspective and faith.
Every whoopla does keep us busy and gets in the way of making something positive out of our time and forces. (This is also a reason why we find who and what we find here.)
Make that change. Be a light in the world.
Let's use our precious gifts for this most important purpose of us being in the world.
We are not an accident.
We have a reason to stand tall and be proud and go do something about our causes.
We don't have any reason to sit in our room cutting each other's ponytails from behind.
That is just too girlish, isn't it?
Blessings to all.
I agree Grace, be the light in the darkness. Everything happens for a reason and we have a purpose. I feel we are important this hoax to help others and to open our own eyes.
-
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. ~Margaret Meade
This was my Sig before I put my VB there instead,I want to change it back now haha :)
I now I have much interest in knowing who is going to spend December 14 with the case of Eliza
The new album is out on December 14th and since this is about Michael,he will take priority over Eliza...or he should.
-
My feelings on all of this is that if we simply made our comments without attacking anyone else's beliefs all of this could have been avoided. Say what you believe without trying to eradicate and ridicule what someone else believes is the only solution to threads getting off the beaten path. The subject will run its course smoothly and move to something else. Stop attacking. That's it. Just that simple for ALL of us. :?
-
hesouttamylife wrote:
My feelings on all of this is that if we simply made our comments without attacking anyone else's beliefs all of this could have been avoided. Say what you believe without trying to eradicate and ridicule what someone else believes is the only solution to threads getting off the beaten path. The subject will run its course smoothly and move to something else. Stop attacking. That's it. Just that simple for ALL of us.
You're right, there should be no reason for there to be personal attacks, it is understandable that in a community there are different points of view, human beings each have their own way of thinking, we must learn is to respect everyone's thoughts even if we do not agreement and adjectives not be putting other people simply do not disagree.
-
The internet is the ONLY place where anyone can come in and be a bully, regardless of age, ethnicity, or stature, or what ever. It's worldwide so it's gonna happen. Take it with a grain of salt. You can't continue to argue alone and the interest wanes when fighting with yourself being the only opponent.
-
Guys, Im really sorry but i am leaving the boards again.
I will monitor but not post.
Ive had a PM off one of the admins which i take great offence to.
I dont want this to be about anything other than finding out what happened to Michael.
I wish you all the best. LOVE. xxx
-
Take care DancingTheDream I felt the same way you do and I left for a while too I come on every now and then to see whats goin on but it started to get the best of me and I couldnt deal with the disrespect anymore. I feel some of us are really losing sight of the real purpose of this forum and it is so unfortunate I hope that we will get back to the main issue and what this forum was initially created for. Much Love.
-
Guys, Im really sorry but i am leaving the boards again.
I will monitor but not post.
Ive had a PM off one of the admins which i take great offence to.
I dont want this to be about anything other than finding out what happened to Michael.
I wish you all the best. LOVE. xxx
I had to fall back from this site too. Its been almost a yr since discovering this site, and at one point it took me from serious heartbreak, to feeling okay, to getting crushed again (when they banned me for a a while in Sept) to feeling skeptical about saying things on here, cause I might say the wrong thing and get banned again.
So now I get on, just to see what everyone else is saying... :|
-
Hi everybody.
I couldn't log in during the weeked because my home computer broke and I don't have time to read what you all were writing.
I am here just to ask Souza to unlock the threads she locked. I am interested in all the locked threads but mostly in Hoax within a hoax.
I want to know if I am the only one feeling this way.
If it's only me who wants the threads back I drop my request but if there are others as well I would like to ask Souza to consider it again about unlocking.
What do you all think?
Thank you.
-
Hi everybody.
I couldn't log in during the weeked because my home computer broke and I don't have time to read what you all were writing.
I am here just to ask Souza to unlock the threads she locked. I am interested in all the locked threads but mostly in Hoax within a hoax.
I want to know if I am the only one feeling this way.
If it's only me who wants the threads back I drop my request but if there are others as well I would like to ask Souza to consider it again about unlocking.
What do you all think?
Thank you.
I agree, the threads should be unlocked. :)
-
Hi everybody.
I couldn't log in during the weeked because my home computer broke and I don't have time to read what you all were writing.
I am here just to ask Souza to unlock the threads she locked. I am interested in all the locked threads but mostly in Hoax within a hoax.
I want to know if I am the only one feeling this way.
If it's only me who wants the threads back I drop my request but if there are others as well I would like to ask Souza to consider it again about unlocking.
What do you all think?
Thank you.
I agree, the threads should be unlocked. :)
So glad I am not alone in this.
Thank you.
Maybe there will be more members after all.
-
the threads were locked because of getting off topic? is that what i understand? we never seem to stay on topic. that is when new ideas start to flow and we start looking at things in another way. thats how we work. jmo
-
Hi everybody.
I couldn't log in during the weeked because my home computer broke and I don't have time to read what you all were writing.
I am here just to ask Souza to unlock the threads she locked. I am interested in all the locked threads but mostly in Hoax within a hoax.
I want to know if I am the only one feeling this way.
If it's only me who wants the threads back I drop my request but if there are others as well I would like to ask Souza to consider it again about unlocking.
What do you all think?
Thank you.
I agree, the threads should be unlocked. :)
So glad I am not alone in this.
Thank you.
Maybe there will be more members after all.
And what if the attacks continue???!!!!!!!!!
I'm here to investigate and to know the truth and to learn more about everything. And I must say I learned so much from all of you guys and I'm glad to be a member of this big "family" but I hate to amit that all these behaviours like attacking one another and humiliating others isn't my style at all. I'm a very peaceful person and I'm really sad that some have reached that level. All i can hope for is Peace.........Let's wait till the dust settles down and I'm sure everything will be okay......
Love you all
Diggyon
-
the threads were locked because of getting off topic? is that what i understand? we never seem to stay on topic. that is when new ideas start to flow and we start looking at things in another way. thats how we work. jmo
So what do you think: should they be unlocked?
-
Hi everybody.
I couldn't log in during the weeked because my home computer broke and I don't have time to read what you all were writing.
I am here just to ask Souza to unlock the threads she locked. I am interested in all the locked threads but mostly in Hoax within a hoax.
I want to know if I am the only one feeling this way.
If it's only me who wants the threads back I drop my request but if there are others as well I would like to ask Souza to consider it again about unlocking.
What do you all think?
Thank you.
I agree, the threads should be unlocked. :)
So glad I am not alone in this.
Thank you.
Maybe there will be more members after all.
And what if the attacks continue???!!!!!!!!!
I'm here to investigate and to know the truth and to learn more about everything. And I must say I learned so much from all of you guys and I'm glad to be a member of this big "family" but I hate to amit that all these behaviours like attacking one another and humiliating others isn't my style at all. I'm a very peaceful person and I'm really sad that some have reached that level. All i can hope for is Peace.........Let's wait till the dust settles down and I'm sure everything will be okay......
Love you all
Diggyon
You are against reopening?
-
JMO, but we all know where to find the locked threads if we want to re-read them and if anyone wants to talk more about those topics then surely they can always start up a new thread. It doesn't have to be a big issue!
-
I was thinking of more than just reading...... but that's OK
-
I guess they were locked for a good reason but we shouldn't have to lock them in the first place ( except if its a double post) meaning people shouldn't go off topic by verbally fighting with each other when there are better ways of dealing with these issues. :) What's it going to take to keep the peace?
-
I saw no fighting on HWHWH
-
Have they ever reopened a locked site?
-
I don't know. But I don't think this is a problem.
Do we want them reopened or not.... I don't know.....
-
I saw no fighting on HWHWH
With that thread can't the admins delete some of the posts and re-open it again.
-
It's obviously clear that I am pro reopening the locked threads, otherwise I would not have posted this thread for the reasons I have stated in my first post. Those threads can be reopened without deleting any of the messages in it. As I have said before: Every dispute has its pros and cons, and all these pros and cons can be valuable.
@DancingTheDream: I'm sorry that things have taken this turn and you decided to stop posting again. I know that in the past I have asked you to read TS's posts as well and I apologize for that. Times change, ideas change and now it's my opinion that everyone is free to make their own choices.
-
I saw no fighting on HWHWH
With that thread can't the admins delete some of the posts and re-open it again.
I'm OK with this
-
And it's pretty clear that I decided to keep them locked. I will see what I can do with the Hoax within a hoax thread tonight when I get home since that is not completely infected with attacks towards anyone (whoever that may be), but the other threads will stay locked, period. Those who feel like they want to discuss certain things can open a new thread.
Mo, you are constantly trying to keep the debate and the controversy going. I don't know what you want to achieve with that, and actually I don't care anymore. I have reached out in this and another thread for a truce for the sake of this website that is OURS which includes the MEMBERS, you ignored both. I am sorry, but as long as you keep stubborn like that, I will keep locking threads that do nothing more that creating more hate and confusion.
And for members who think that I have not the last say in that, I do. Mo decided a few weeks ago that she decides now what will be updated and deleted from the main website, like the Eliza page and the chatroom which I didn't approve of, so yes, I decide what happens in here until Mo will finally see that she is killing this website by keeping the war going, only because we have a disagreement and she thinks I am the only one to blame. It takes two to tango Mo.
-
And it's pretty clear that I decided to keep them locked. I will see what I can do with the Hoax within a hoax thread tonight when I get home since that is not completely infected with attacks towards anyone (whoever that may be), but the other threads will stay locked, period. Those who feel like they want to discuss certain things can open a new thread.
Mo, you are constantly trying to keep the debate and the controversy going. I don't know what you want to achieve with that, and actually I don't care anymore. I have reached out in this and another thread for a truce for the sake of this website that is OURS which includes the MEMBERS, you ignored both. I am sorry, but as long as you keep stubborn like that, I will keep locking threads that do nothing more that creating more hate and confusion.
And for members who think that I have not the last say in that, I do. Mo decided a few weeks ago that she decides now what will be updated and deleted from the main website, like the Eliza page and the chatroom which I didn't approve of, so yes, I decide what happens in here until Mo will finally see that she is killing this website by keeping the war going, only because we have a disagreement and she thinks I am the only one to blame. It takes two to tango Mo.
Thanks Souza. :)
-
- The decision to delete the Eliza Presley section from this website was a joined decision by Badkolo and me. Of course Souza was informed of this decision, and I waited for her opinion about it. Souza did not reply so I waited 3 days before removing the section from the website. Only after that was done I received an email from her with her objections. The email I sent to Souza about our joined decision to remove the Eliza Presley section went CC to Badkolo, and until this day I have not received a reply from him that he is not okay with deleting that section after all.
- In the same email Souza was also informed of the link to the chat room being deleted due to expiration of that hosting account. That was also a joined decision by Badkolo and me, as Badkolo was not prepared to pay for new hosting. Badkolo was going to inform Souza about his reasons, but in case he didn't do that I can't be held accountable.
- I've proven already that I'm not trying to keep a war going by ignoring all the attacks. Personally I'm not aware of me attacking anyone. Please prove me wrong if you can. Of course when I preach that everyone can have his/her own opinion, it would be strange if I can't have mine.
- Unlocking these threads is, according to me, the only thing Souza can do. This shows more good intentions than sending a PM to a member of which the member takes great offense, resulting in her deciding not to post on the boards again. Openness, honesty and facts are the only things these boards will benefit from, and the only things I can be blamed for is bringing openness, facts and honesty on these boards and preaching for it.
Souza, maybe you should start taking notice of the quote in your own signature:
"Freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed."[/b]
-
- Unlocking these threads is, according to me, the only thing Souza can do. This shows more good intentions than sending a PM to a member of which the member takes great offense, resulting in her deciding not to post on the boards again. [/b]
What do you mean? What member? What's going on here ?
-
- Unlocking these threads is, according to me, the only thing Souza can do. This shows more good intentions than sending a PM to a member of which the member takes great offense, resulting in her deciding not to post on the boards again. [/b]
What do you mean? What member? What's going on here ?
Guys, Im really sorry but i am leaving the boards again.
I will monitor but not post.
Ive had a PM off one of the admins which i take great offence to.
I dont want this to be about anything other than finding out what happened to Michael.
I wish you all the best. LOVE. xxx
-
- The decision to delete the Eliza Presley section from this website was a joined decision by Badkolo and me. Of course Souza was informed of this decision, and I waited for her opinion about it. Souza did not reply so I waited 3 days before removing the section from the website. Only after that was done I received an email from her with her objections. The email I sent to Souza about our joined decision to remove the Eliza Presley section went CC to Badkolo, and until this day I have not received a reply from him that he is not okay with deleting that section after all.[/b]
Just facts here: Badkolo's grandpa was fighting for his life when you kept complaining about me. Badkolo does not decide anything for the site, and that are his own words. He did not intend that you should delete stuff on yourself without my approval. Those are facts.
[/li][li]In the same email Souza was also informed of the link to the chat room being deleted due to expiration of that hosting account. That was also a joined decision by Badkolo and me, as Badkolo was not prepared to pay for new hosting. Badkolo was going to inform Souza about his reasons, but in case he didn't do that I can't be held accountable.
Maybe you have the time to be behind your laptop 24/7, I don't. I have to work 50 hours a week and I had to move out of my house. I am not 24/7 available for your questions. Besides that, if you were truly waiting for my reply, you could have called me, you got my number.
[/li][li]I've proven already that I'm not trying to keep a war going by ignoring all the attacks. Personally I'm not aware of me attacking anyone. Please prove me wrong if you can. Of course when I preach that everyone can have his/her own opinion, it would be strange if I can't have mine.
No Mo, you are attacking and questioning my decisions in public. You could also have send me an E-MAIL. You chose again for taking it to the boards and you have NO intention looking in the mirror and admitting your own mistakes. Is that saying something about me? Maybe, but it certainly says a lot about you.
[/li][li]Unlocking these threads is, according to me, the only thing Souza can do. This shows more good intentions than sending a PM to a member of which the member takes great offense, resulting in her deciding not to post on the boards again. Openness, honesty and facts are the only things these boards will benefit from, and the only things I can be blamed for is bringing openness, facts and honesty on these boards and preaching for it.[/li][/list]
Don't be a hypocrite Mo, and you know EXACTLY what I mean! And besides that, I have been honest. Please tell me where I LIED to deceive people. I haven't. Difference between you and me is that I rather have people think I am shady or bad, than to betray other's trust. If people think that way about me, so be it.
The threads will stay locked. If you want to repost anything, be my guest. I have said so from the start, you can question anything you want, but I will keep reminding you of inaccuracy in your posts, just like everyone on here does to others. That is called investigation but not in the way those threads went, those threads went out of hand.
This is also where this discussion ends Mo, if you have anything more to complain about, you have my e-mail addres and my phone number.
-
- Unlocking these threads is, according to me, the only thing Souza can do. This shows more good intentions than sending a PM to a member of which the member takes great offense, resulting in her deciding not to post on the boards again. [/b]
What do you mean? What member? What's going on here ?
Guys, Im really sorry but i am leaving the boards again.
I will monitor but not post.
Ive had a PM off one of the admins which i take great offence to.
I dont want this to be about anything other than finding out what happened to Michael.
I wish you all the best. LOVE. xxx
Thank you Puff, it seems that if Mo is around, you are right here to back her up.
For those that want honesty so much, here is the 'offending' pm I sent to DTD:
Subject: Locked threads (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=279776#p279776)
The problem i had with it all is that I was being told by admins on this forum that i MUST believe in TS. Thats TS was telling the truth and that i MUST read all his posts and trust and believe in this person. That i MUST stop posting on the forum and use my time to read TS instead.
Thats not investigation to me. Thats PR.
That's not true, I told you to stop posting sexy pics and unimportant fan stuff, and share investigations instead. And if you want to say someone is a waste of time, you should read it first because there is much valuable info in TS' posts. That there was twisting my words, not very nice.
As you can see, there is nothing in there that is offending, those are facts since I did ask her that. And I also sent this as a PM, which means I want these kinds of discussions OFF the board, but it seems that people like the attacking, war, contraversy etc. lately.
-
Thank you Puff.
Looks to me that locking the threads didn't stop the fighting
-
@Souza
A PM, is a PRIVATE message, so since when you are allowed to post them on the forum...?
Maybe you think that you didn't offend DTD in your PM, but you can't determine the feeling that DTD had about it....
I think that the part that offended DTD of your PM is:
"And if you want to say someone is a waste of time, you should read it first because there is much valuable info in TS' posts. That there was twisting my words, not very nice."
This is YOUR opinion..
Don't tell me that I'm here to back up Mo and to attack you, I'm here to express my opinion.. and my opinion is that it's going waaaaaaaay too far.
-
Thank you Puff.
Looks to me that locking the threads didn't stop the fighting
Nope, clearly not, but they ain't helping either. This is what I posted on page 2, which was completely ignored: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16409&start=25#p279153 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16409&start=25#p279153)
-
@Souza
A PM, is a PRIVATE message, so since when you are allowed to post them on the forum...?
Maybe you think that you didn't offend DTD in your PM, but you can't determine the feeling that DTD had about it....
I think that the part that offended DTD of your PM is:
"And if you want to say someone is a waste of time, you should read it first because there is much valuable info in TS' posts. That there was twisting my words, not very nice."
This is YOUR opinion..
Don't tell me that I'm here to back up Mo and to attack you, I'm here to express my opinion.. and my opinion is that it's going waaaaaaaay too far.
@Puff, clearly YOU didn't read, because it is MY PM to DtD. The piece that she wrote is in a thread on the forum. I did not post a PM from someone else. Please keep your judgements to yourself. I am fully able to give myself permission to post my own PM.
And btw, you and Mo do want people to think for themselves and not be sheep right? So that means people SHOULD read something before they judge it. It is indeed MY opinion that there is valuable info in these posts and if others want to ignore that that is fine by me, but it is a FACT that people can't judge something they never read/ seen/heard themselves.
-
All this goes from bad to worse :?
-
@Souza
A PM, is a PRIVATE message, so since when you are allowed to post them on the forum...?
Maybe you think that you didn't offend DTD in your PM, but you can't determine the feeling that DTD had about it....
I think that the part that offended DTD of your PM is:
"And if you want to say someone is a waste of time, you should read it first because there is much valuable info in TS' posts. That there was twisting my words, not very nice."
This is YOUR opinion..
Don't tell me that I'm here to back up Mo and to attack you, I'm here to express my opinion.. and my opinion is that it's going waaaaaaaay too far.
@Puff, clearly YOU didn't read, because it is MY PM to DtD. The piece that she wrote is in a thread on the forum. I did not post a PM from someone else. Please keep your judgements to yourself. I am fully able to give myself permission to post my own PM.
And btw, you and Mo do want people to think for themselves and not be sheep right? So that means people SHOULD read something before they judge it. It is indeed MY opinion that there is valuable info in these posts and if others want to ignore that that is fine by me, but it is a FACT that people can't judge something they never read/ seen/heard themselves.
I think you don't get the point.... the info are there I've NEVER said that TS didn't give us info, on the contrary I've questioned which kind of info he gave and what he assumed and stated...
And to keep force people to read TS' posts is what you call 'freedom'? DtD has stated many times that she is NOT interested in TS. You keep forcing her to read those posts.. to read something that YOU judge valuable....
I'm done with this manipulation, I'm done with this useless fight... you are free to believe and to follow whoever and whatever you want, but please refrain to shove YOUR truth down to people throats, because probably you could be very wrong.
-
Locking threads is one thing. Making a thread about locked threads is another. And the latter one is definitely pure provocation. If someone wants to stop fighting they'd abandon the topic utterly. If someone wants to make things worse they'd keep going back to the topic. Do the maths.
-
Locking threads is one thing. Making a thread about locked threads is another. And the latter one is definitely pure provocation. If someone wants to stop fighting they'd abandon the topic utterly. If someone wants to make things worse they'd keep going back to the topic. Do the maths.
very well said chloead505, what I would also add, that once someone is accused of something and is trying to prove no grounds for the accusations, at least the right to defend and to show the evidence should not be questioned.
-
Puff, you are twisting my words and you are interfering with something you never were part of anyway. All I said to DtD is what I said earlier, not what I am saying now. You seem to be on a trip to discredit me and make me look like the big manipulator or something. I will let the members make up their own minds on this, I am done defending my own words.
The fact that one of the admins is attacking and questioning me on the board is enough, I don't need any mods doing the same. I am sorry, but you clearly can't refrain from commenting on things without any background knowledge and therefor I am going to de-mod you. Normally I would have let you known in a PM, e-mail or on MSN, but I don't think it would stay private anyway, so to avoid more accusations that I am dishonest and to avoid that someone will twist my words, I had no choice than to do it like this.
I am fed up with the crap. Discussion closed, thread locked. On with Michael Jackson, the person that SHOULD be the subject, instead of Mo and Souza. Any new thread that will bring up this drama again, will be locked. If people want to know certain things, they can open a thread and ask in a respectful way. I always answer questions when asked, people who pm-ed me before with questions know I do so. But I do not feel like adressing lies and assumptions about what I do or think anymore.