Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators
Latest News => TIAI => The Plan (Qanon, TIAI, BACK) => TIAI & TS Discussions => Topic started by: Uranus on November 25, 2010, 06:38:37 AM
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The fact that TS keeps his identity secret is a bit strange…
In one of his/her posts he/she said that even if he/she revealed his/her identity, we wouldn’t believe him/her and that there was no point doing that. Well, we have passed through much more difficult matters than the identity of a person and we have learned when to beLIEve and when not to. As to whether knowing the identity of your major informer is necessary or not, the answer is absolutely yes. The information given on a subject is a most important part of understanding the facts, but the identity of the source of this information is equally important. This is because considering something as a clue just because someone claims it to be a clue, can control and direct your search and conclusion even if you have an excellent ability of judging.
Some people say that TS’s identity should remain secret because if he/she is someone near the MJ camp everyone will believe him/her and follow him/her without judging and acting on their own will, while if he/she has no close connection to the MJ camp everyone will reject him/her and stop believing him/her. Well, this does not stand as an excuse at all. We do not need communicational tricks to form our opinions and the power of someone’s words should stand only for what his/her words are and not for how he/she promotes them. For example, when you say “prejudice is ignorance”, that idea can stand on its own despite who said it or how he/she promoted him/herself. After all, we can judge, criticize and think for ourselves in order to choose who we listen to and who we not, and this is the only way to support MJ and those who strive for humanity’s sake.
Let me point out something straight ahead… If TS’s revealed his/her identity Michael would definitely not be in danger. MJ’s supposed enemies are very powerful and have all the means necessary to achieve their goals. If MJ is a threat to them they would do everything possible to stop him. I don’t think that anyone argues whether those building the New World Order are capable of espionage or not. Actually they are capable of far more terrible things. So, if we have noticed that Michael is alive and plans to fight them, they have definitely noticed it too. And if TS is holding key information about MJ, considering that his/her acts via the internet are enough for them to detect him/her, he/she would have been caught by them by now. Moreover, MJ would never jeopardize his mission giving valuable information about it to someone that could be detected by his enemies and putting him/her in danger. So, the conclusion of this is that TS cannot have key information that put Michael’s life in danger.
As far as TS’s secrecy about his/her identity is concerned, I tend to believe that his/her connection to Sony is far closer than he/she has been willing to admit until now. Although, this is not necessarily bad, it is a bit suspicious. My search in the internet has provided some interesting information.
The fact that TS had always much information about MJ and his CD’s and the “This IS It” DVD before this information was available to anyone else can show a relation to Sony without much explanation and search.
TS also had always much information about TMZ. He/ She seemed to predict when they would publish specific subjects, have information from the inside and have knowledge of specific data and events before they would become known and happen, such as MJ police files and Murray’s trials. This can also suggest a connection to Sony, because Sony collaborates with TMZ, as the creator of a browser for mobile phones to establish connection to the TMZ channel and provide mobile phone users with access to TMZ news. That means that someone inside Sony can have TMZ information before it is published. Here is a link about that:
http://www.mobilemarketer.com/cms/news/media/756.html (http://www.mobilemarketer.com/cms/news/media/756.html)
Moreover, TS successfully predicted a relation to the 2012 film with the MJ hoax, before the film was available in the cinemas and generally in the public. As we know the major character’s name was Jackson. This suggests a relation between TS and Sony as well. The film was distributed by Columbia Pictures, which is owned by Sony. The related web pages are in the following link:
1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_(film (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_(film))
2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Pictures (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Pictures)
Finally, about the time that TS started his/her redirects(October 2009), Sony had shortly before announced that they would start the project "This Is Also It" due to the success of "This Is It", which would be about other dead starts and similar to "This IS It". They claimed this investment to be most profitable. One of the first sites to announce that was "The Huffington Post", which is a site used by TS for his/her clues. The mentioned article about the announcement is on the following link:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-boro ... 37576.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-borowitz/sony-to-release-this-is-i_b_337576.html)
This set of coincidences closely related to TS, statistically strongly suggests that TS is very close to the Sony camp. Note that my search was very rapid, which means that many more things can be found about TS’s relation to Sony, with a better and more thorough search.
All in all, TS's identity is not important to what we think or believe about Michael, or it is not more important than anyone else's identity. However, the fact that Sony profits from MJ and that they have abused him in the past raises concerns. The fact that those who have said that MJ is alive, such as Akon, Riley and Eros Ramazzotti are related to Sony and the first two profit from the new album’s sales, raises concerns as well. And I strongly believe that it is our right to know the source of our information, since we fight equally to TS and everyone else here, for more than a year now.
I neither blame nor accuse, I only suggest caution, awareness and thinking for ourselves.
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TS could tell us that he is "anybody" still will be our decision to believe it or not ;)
I am Beyoncé :)
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And you got your new member identity just to write this? Why? Were you that scared to use your own member ID and show us who you are?
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
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TS could tell us that he is "anybody" still will be our decision to believe it or not ;)
I am Beyoncé :)
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
That explains a lot! I knew it!!
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And you got your new member identity just to write this? Why? Were you that scared to use your own member ID and show us who you are?
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
It is my only member identity, that I got yesterday. I've been watching, though, this site since the very beginning. I am not afraid of anything. I just exress my views, that I felt that I wanted to share with the people here. And sorry, but personal attacks don't stand as arguments.
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The fact that TS keeps his identity secret is a bit strange…
In one of his/her posts he/she said that even if he/she revealed his/her identity, we wouldn’t believe him/her and that there was no point doing that. Well, we have passed through much more difficult matters than the identity of a person and we have learned when to beLIEve and when not to. As to whether knowing the identity of your major informer is necessary or not, the answer is absolutely yes. The information given on a subject is a most important part of understanding the facts, but the identity of the source of this information is equally important. This is because considering something as a clue just because someone claims it to be a clue, can control and direct your search and conclusion even if you have an excellent ability of judging.
Some people say that TS’s identity should remain secret because if he/she is someone near the MJ camp everyone will believe him/her and follow him/her without judging and acting on their own will, while if he/she has no close connection to the MJ camp everyone will reject him/her and stop believing him/her. Well, this does not stand as an excuse at all. We do not need communicational tricks to form our opinions and the power of someone’s words should stand only for what his/her words are and not for how he/she promotes them. For example, when you say “prejudice is ignorance”, that idea can stand on its own despite who said it or how he/she promoted him/herself. After all, we can judge, criticize and think for ourselves in order to choose who we listen to and who we not, and this is the only way to support MJ and those who strive for humanity’s sake.
Let me point out something straight ahead… If TS’s revealed his/her identity Michael would definitely not be in danger. MJ’s supposed enemies are very powerful and have all the means necessary to achieve their goals. If MJ is a threat to them they would do everything possible to stop him. I don’t think that anyone argues whether those building the New World Order are capable of espionage or not. Actually they are capable of far more terrible things. So, if we have noticed that Michael is alive and plans to fight them, they have definitely noticed it too. And if TS is holding key information about MJ, considering that his/her acts via the internet are enough for them to detect him/her, he/she would have been caught by them by now. Moreover, MJ would never jeopardize his mission giving valuable information about it to someone that could be detected by his enemies and putting him/her in danger. So, the conclusion of this is that TS cannot have key information that put Michael’s life in danger.
As far as TS’s secrecy about his/her identity is concerned, I tend to believe that his/her connection to Sony is far closer than he/she has been willing to admit until now. Although, this is not necessarily bad, it is a bit suspicious. My search in the internet has provided some interesting information.
The fact that TS had always much information about MJ and his CD’s and the “This IS It” DVD before this information was available to anyone else can show a relation to Sony without much explanation and search.
TS also had always much information about TMZ. He/ She seemed to predict when they would publish specific subjects, have information from the inside and have knowledge of specific data and events before they would become known and happen, such as MJ police files and Murray’s trials. This can also suggest a connection to Sony, because Sony collaborates with TMZ, as the creator of a browser for mobile phones to establish connection to the TMZ channel and provide mobile phone users with access to TMZ news. That means that someone inside Sony can have TMZ information before it is published. Here is a link about that:
http://www.mobilemarketer.com/cms/news/media/756.html (http://www.mobilemarketer.com/cms/news/media/756.html)
Moreover, TS successfully predicted a relation to the 2012 film with the MJ hoax, before the film was available in the cinemas and generally in the public. As we know the major character’s name was Jackson. This suggests a relation between TS and Sony as well. The film was distributed by Columbia Pictures, which is owned by Sony. The related web pages are in the following link:
1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_(film (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_(film))
2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Pictures (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Pictures)
Finally, about the time that TS started his/her redirects(October 2009), Sony had shortly before announced that they would start the project "This Is Also It" due to the success of "This Is It", which would be about other dead starts and similar to "This IS It". They claimed this investment to be most profitable. One of the first sites to announce that was "The Huffington Post", which is a site used by TS for his/her clues. The mentioned article about the announcement is on the following link:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-boro ... 37576.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-borowitz/sony-to-release-this-is-i_b_337576.html)
This set of coincidences closely related to TS, statistically strongly suggests that TS is very close to the Sony camp. Note that my search was very rapid, which means that many more things can be found about TS’s relation to Sony, with a better and more thorough search.
All in all, TS's identity is not important to what we think or believe about Michael, or it is not more important than anyone else's identity. However, the fact that Sony profits from MJ and that they have abused him in the past raises concerns. The fact that those who have said that MJ is alive, such as Akon, Riley and Eros Ramazzotti are related to Sony and the first two profit from the new album’s sales, raises concerns as well. And I strongly believe that it is our right to know the source of our information, since we fight equally to TS and everyone else here, for more than a year now.
I neither blame nor accuse, I only suggest caution, awareness and thinking for ourselves.
I second that!
And don't forget what TS wrote about MJ's plan to outthink SONY....
4-28. MJ Certainly Had Something Big Planned
Is there any evidence that he has been planning this for years, maybe even decades? Yes, there are several things. One of which we already examined, and that is the autographs (1998, Dangerous code, etc). These all indicated at least something major on 9-9-09. The Liberian Girl video, from about twenty years ago, leaves us with a pretty strong feeling that he was already working on this plan back then.
Another thing is the MJ will, dated 7-7-02, exactly 7 years before the memorial
Just a few weeks before, MJ had spoken out and said: “... they never thought, that this performer, myself, would outthink them. ... I promise you, the best is yet to come.”
[youtube:2ax89p5n]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mx0Un9K5dKQ[/youtube:2ax89p5n]
and see this similar video, from just one day before the 7-7-02 will:
[youtube:2ax89p5n]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzGCZUT9DG4&feature=player_embedded[/youtube:2ax89p5n]
What was he referring to? What was his plan (outthinking), and when did he implement it? What was the “best” to come after 2002? And what was the big and “innovating” film “surprises” that he mentioned to Geraldo in 2005?
There seems to be no answer to these questions, unless of course the answer is Thriller II (TII). In fact, since MJ did do film clips for TII (Gilda fake death, spider resurrection, etc): then whatever he was planning, we can be quite sure “This Is It”.
This is it, a SONY movie, was his innovative project to outthink SONY......? That makes no sense at all....
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I just think that if TS is deceiving us, this is the time to stop.
Michael's fans do not deserve to be deceived, deserve respect and consideration!
This whole story makes us suffer, cause a commotion and mountain of emotions.
Do not want to judge him hastily ... I do not know what their intentions are and that is gaining advantages. Also do not think he will reveal his identity.
Unfortunately we are blind. TS can either be your own Michael Jackson or someone who has inside information about the whole process involving the death of Michael, or just a crazed fan who is playing with us.
Independent TS, I believe that Michael is alive, but there is a doubt and I just wish it would end soon. :?
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What you've stated about TS is something that's been debated here quite a bit lately, and there are those who do think he's on the dark side as it were, but personally I've always been of the opinion that to put too much faith in him or anyone is foolish, regardless of how relevant they may seem. The Sony connection is only ominous if you don't believe Sony is in on this with Michael (and I do) and suspect them of either being murderers or trying to cash in on his legacy. So to me if he's for real then it's only natural that he's connected with/has inside info from Sony. I think Sony and Michael are orchestrating this whole thing and the players (the family, Teddy, Akon, Kenny, Dileo etc) are all acting out their roles. All the stirring of the pot concerning TS lately does make me wonder if we as a group are being tested. Again.
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And you got your new member identity just to write this? Why? Were you that scared to use your own member ID and show us who you are?
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
It is my only member identity, that I got yesterday. I've been watching, though, this site since the very beginning. I am not afraid of anything. I just exress my views, that I felt that I wanted to share with the people here. And sorry, but personal attacks don't stand as arguments.
Sorry but I don't believe you.
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Michael had a problem with Sony and Mottola back in 2002. Things have change since then.
Michael is a business man, not just an artist. Money matters and I am sure that his music being promoted has a reason for it.
He outsmarted Sony creating a great concept making a revolution in the music industry and his career. Sales up. Once again, Michael is generating money for Sony but this time surely he is awared of how much he is worth ;)
His kids are going to have a prosperous future :)
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You guys who oppose to TS and started to think that Sony murdered Michael are rambling with the same stories around. We talked about all of these issues very long time ago and we came to a conclusion of a hoax planned by MJ himself. Why didn't you oppose then? Why of a sudden you started to oppose TS now? Just because of Eliza's DNA issue? If you are sure that MJ was murdered by Sony and Sony is trying to make the death look like a hoax, these questions would be easy for you to reply. I just want the ones who think that Sony murdered Michael to reply these simple questions.
-Why would Sony try to show his death look like a hoax after murdering him?
*Weren't we all going to buy TII or the new album etc? The ones who don't believe in the hoax are buying every product related to Michael too. If this whole thing didn't look like a hoax to us, weren't we going to buy any new cds or films of MJ? Why would Sony bother to make it look like a hoax?
*The family members including Randy keep on saying that Michael was murdered and Randy gave some names like Sony, AEG etc. *
*They only sued AEG. Why not Sony?
-So why did the estate make a deal with Sony if they believe that Sony killed their son/brother?
-Then why don't they sue Sony if they think that Sony murdered Michael?
*The family says that Sony used a fake voice in the upcoming album. Randy and most of the other family members scream that Sony used a voice-like.
-So why don't they sue Sony about this issue too?
*AEG and Kenny Ortega arranged the memorial and the funeral, so they could put all the hoax clues there like the Liberian Girl pictures etc .
-So why any member of the family asked why there was only Liberian Girl pictures at the memorial and the funeral? They couldn't change the pictures?
*Michael was murdered by Sony/AEG whatsoever.
-Why was everyone smiling, almost laughing at the backstage of the memorial and at the funeral? Wouldn’t they suppose to be mourning? Sony paid all friends and family members to look happy? Sony should have paid money to Katherine too because she went shopping just a day after her son’s “death” and the kids wanted to do camping a day after their daddy’s “death”!
*Joe and Katherine Jackson wore the same outfits they had worn during Michael’s trial.
-Sony also paid them to wear the same outfits?
*Janet forgets where she was when she first heard about her brother’s “death.
-Sony paid her to forget where she was?
*Jermaine, Latoya make slip-ups all the time.
-Sony paid them to make the slip-ups too?
If you're defending an idea, you need to have rational explanations. You come up with the same issues and repeating yourselves. Come up with rational explanations or accept that you're wrong. And if you made up your mind that Michael was murdered, you don't need to spend your time here. Justice for MJ groups are waiting for new members. I'm so done with the newly non-believers. It seems like they closed their minds to the truth which is so obvious. It's totally your loss people.
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And for that SONY and TMZ is going to take the trouble to fool a small group of people, when the vast majority of the fans think that Michael die?, to sell?, do not believe that we represent a large amount of money
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Asking TS's identity IS a valid question BUT we are obviously not meant to find out until after the BAM. If TS is a legitimate insider (which is what I've always thought but I keep an open mind) then Michael doesn't want us to know who TS is...yet. I don't blame TS for not revealing his identity because it would leave him open to ridicule, threats, etc. And I don't think the identity is as important as the message and the information we've been given. The fact that we don't know TS's identity kinda sorta reminds me of "V" from V for Vendetta in some ways.
As for Sony, TMZ, etc - Michael knows what's happening as it's part of his plan which explains why TS knows so much and is able to tell us things before they happen. That was deliberate on Michael's part so we would know that TS is legit. There can't be a hoax without an annonymous source to clue the people in who are willing to look beyond the headlines. I honestly think that Michael has wanted the hoax to develop the way he envisioned and he wouldn't just assume that people can think the way he does - hence, TS.
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If you're defending an idea, you need to have rational explanations. You come up with the same issues and repeating yourselves. Come up with rational explanations or accept that you're wrong. And if you made up your mind that Michael was murdered, you don't need to spend your time here. Justice for MJ groups are waiting for new members. I'm so done with the newly non-believers. It seems like they closed their minds to the truth which is so obvious. It's totally your loss people.
Well,PureLove, I think you got some rational explanations....you don't accept them, then it's fine by me....
The connection between TS and Sony, as Uranus has showed, is crystal clear...
I'm not saying that I'm 100% sure that MJ was murdered and I'm not 100% that it's a hoax, probably it's an hoax, probably MJ hoaxed his death for private reasons and not to save the world, who said that this hoax has an important purpose? That's assuming.... you can't blame me, that's my own opinion and you should respect it.
If you are done with these kind of threads, just skip them.
I also ask you to refrain from posting insinuations again, because I was not born yesterday, thank you.
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PureLove wrote:
You guys who oppose to TS and started to think that Sony murdered Michael are rambling with the same stories around. We talked about all of these issues very long time ago and we came to a conclusion of a hoax planned by MJ himself. Why didn't you oppose then? Why of a sudden you started to oppose TS now? Just because of Eliza's DNA issue? If you are sure that MJ was murdered by Sony and Sony is trying to make the death look like a hoax, these questions would be easy for you to reply. I just want the ones who think that Sony murdered Michael to reply these simple questions.
-Why would Sony try to show his death look like a hoax after murdering him?
*Weren't we all going to buy TII or the new album etc? The ones who don't believe in the hoax are buying every product related to Michael too. If this whole thing didn't look like a hoax to us, weren't we going to buy any new cds or films of MJ? Why would Sony bother to make it look like a hoax?
*The family members including Randy keep on saying that Michael was murdered and Randy gave some names like Sony, AEG etc. *
*They only sued AEG. Why not Sony?
-So why did the estate make a deal with Sony if they believe that Sony killed their son/brother?
-Then why don't they sue Sony if they think that Sony murdered Michael?
*The family says that Sony used a fake voice in the upcoming album. Randy and most of the other family members scream that Sony used a voice-like.
-So why don't they sue Sony about this issue too?
*AEG and Kenny Ortega arranged the memorial and the funeral, so they could put all the hoax clues there like the Liberian Girl pictures etc .
-So why any member of the family asked why there was only Liberian Girl pictures at the memorial and the funeral? They couldn't change the pictures?
*Michael was murdered by Sony/AEG whatsoever.
-Why was everyone smiling, almost laughing at the backstage of the memorial and at the funeral? Wouldn’t they suppose to be mourning? Sony paid all friends and family members to look happy? Sony should have paid money to Katherine too because she went shopping just a day after her son’s “death” and the kids wanted to do camping a day after their daddy’s “death”!
*Joe and Katherine Jackson wore the same outfits they had worn during Michael’s trial.
-Sony also paid them to wear the same outfits?
*Janet forgets where she was when she first heard about her brother’s “death.
-Sony paid her to forget where she was?
*Jermaine, Latoya make slip-ups all the time.
-Sony paid them to make the slip-ups too?
If you're defending an idea, you need to have rational explanations. You come up with the same issues and repeating yourselves. Come up with rational explanations or accept that you're wrong. And if you made up your mind that Michael was murdered, you don't need to spend your time here. Justice for MJ groups are waiting for new members. I'm so done with the newly non-believers. It seems like they closed their minds to the truth which is so obvious. It's totally your loss people.
Well said
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Puff I hear what you're saying but wasn't TS connected to TMZ and/or Sony a long time ago, certainly the predictions indicated that. And if so why is it lately the Eliza thing is casting that connection in a suspicious light? As soon as that happened a few people either took that as confirmation of their beliefs or changed their minds completely and decided this was a cover-up of a murder. Some made that change almost instantly. Yet he had suggested other things that didn't happen. I think something else is going on here and I think it's a deliberate stirring of the pot because we're being tested.
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MJ<----------one subject
Eliza P<-----another subject
Can we separate those 2 from each other? they have nothing to do with each other as far as i am concerned.
Aaaaaaahhhhhggggggg, I just care about what happened to Miiiiichaaaeeeeeel
(http://images.zaazu.com/img/pain-pain-ache-headache-smiley-emoticon-000336-large.gif)
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Gema was TS the that initiate Eliza's topic :roll:
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oh man I dont get it I dont get it I dont get it! maybe TS is conneccted to MJ maybe he's connected to Sony TMZ or what have you! maybe he's a crazed fan, or even a psychic for crying out loud! does it really dicredit everything TS told us? all the answers we've gotten! even things we didnt understand and when people have started doubting in the past TS comes back and explains it all in a new post! wait it out ppl! as for the identity its so important that its a secret! ppl then dont follow blindly and its actually about what is being told not by whom!
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The fact that TS keeps his identity secret is a bit strange…
In one of his/her posts he/she said that even if he/she revealed his/her identity, we wouldn’t believe him/her and that there was no point doing that. Well, we have passed through much more difficult matters than the identity of a person and we have learned when to beLIEve and when not to. As to whether knowing the identity of your major informer is necessary or not, the answer is absolutely yes. The information given on a subject is a most important part of understanding the facts, but the identity of the source of this information is equally important. This is because considering something as a clue just because someone claims it to be a clue, can control and direct your search and conclusion even if you have an excellent ability of judging.
Some people say that TS’s identity should remain secret because if he/she is someone near the MJ camp everyone will believe him/her and follow him/her without judging and acting on their own will, while if he/she has no close connection to the MJ camp everyone will reject him/her and stop believing him/her. Well, this does not stand as an excuse at all. We do not need communicational tricks to form our opinions and the power of someone’s words should stand only for what his/her words are and not for how he/she promotes them. For example, when you say “prejudice is ignorance”, that idea can stand on its own despite who said it or how he/she promoted him/herself. After all, we can judge, criticize and think for ourselves in order to choose who we listen to and who we not, and this is the only way to support MJ and those who strive for humanity’s sake.
Let me point out something straight ahead… If TS’s revealed his/her identity Michael would definitely not be in danger. MJ’s supposed enemies are very powerful and have all the means necessary to achieve their goals. If MJ is a threat to them they would do everything possible to stop him. I don’t think that anyone argues whether those building the New World Order are capable of espionage or not. Actually they are capable of far more terrible things. So, if we have noticed that Michael is alive and plans to fight them, they have definitely noticed it too. And if TS is holding key information about MJ, considering that his/her acts via the internet are enough for them to detect him/her, he/she would have been caught by them by now. Moreover, MJ would never jeopardize his mission giving valuable information about it to someone that could be detected by his enemies and putting him/her in danger. So, the conclusion of this is that TS cannot have key information that put Michael’s life in danger.
As far as TS’s secrecy about his/her identity is concerned, I tend to believe that his/her connection to Sony is far closer than he/she has been willing to admit until now. Although, this is not necessarily bad, it is a bit suspicious. My search in the internet has provided some interesting information.
The fact that TS had always much information about MJ and his CD’s and the “This IS It” DVD before this information was available to anyone else can show a relation to Sony without much explanation and search.
TS also had always much information about TMZ. He/ She seemed to predict when they would publish specific subjects, have information from the inside and have knowledge of specific data and events before they would become known and happen, such as MJ police files and Murray’s trials. This can also suggest a connection to Sony, because Sony collaborates with TMZ, as the creator of a browser for mobile phones to establish connection to the TMZ channel and provide mobile phone users with access to TMZ news. That means that someone inside Sony can have TMZ information before it is published. Here is a link about that:
http://www.mobilemarketer.com/cms/news/media/756.html (http://www.mobilemarketer.com/cms/news/media/756.html)
Moreover, TS successfully predicted a relation to the 2012 film with the MJ hoax, before the film was available in the cinemas and generally in the public. As we know the major character’s name was Jackson. This suggests a relation between TS and Sony as well. The film was distributed by Columbia Pictures, which is owned by Sony. The related web pages are in the following link:
1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_(film (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_(film))
2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Pictures (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Pictures)
Finally, about the time that TS started his/her redirects(October 2009), Sony had shortly before announced that they would start the project "This Is Also It" due to the success of "This Is It", which would be about other dead starts and similar to "This IS It". They claimed this investment to be most profitable. One of the first sites to announce that was "The Huffington Post", which is a site used by TS for his/her clues. The mentioned article about the announcement is on the following link:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-boro ... 37576.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-borowitz/sony-to-release-this-is-i_b_337576.html)
This set of coincidences closely related to TS, statistically strongly suggests that TS is very close to the Sony camp. Note that my search was very rapid, which means that many more things can be found about TS’s relation to Sony, with a better and more thorough search.
All in all, TS's identity is not important to what we think or believe about Michael, or it is not more important than anyone else's identity. However, the fact that Sony profits from MJ and that they have abused him in the past raises concerns. The fact that those who have said that MJ is alive, such as Akon, Riley and Eros Ramazzotti are related to Sony and the first two profit from the new album’s sales, raises concerns as well. And I strongly believe that it is our right to know the source of our information, since we fight equally to TS and everyone else here, for more than a year now.
I neither blame nor accuse, I only suggest caution, awareness and thinking for ourselves.
Thank you for posting this...and for being so thorough in your research and explanation. I enjoyed reading what you have to say.
I also believe that while TS's identity isn't important to what we think about Michael, it is important to the hoax itself and who is behind it. Who is behind it...Sony? Michael? AEG? Fans/non-fans? TMZ? Hmmm.....
I wonder if you believe that if TS is someone from Sony, are they doing this to profit only from Michael's name or to help him?
I disliked Sony very much when I first joined this hoax January of this year. I was conflicted as to whether to support Sony backed projects or not. My final decision is not based on TS but based on who I believe is profiting. Yes, clearly Sony is profiting. But so is Michael and so is Michael's Estate (which mean his children and mother). And if the Estate if profiting, then so are charities that the 20% is supposed to go to. And, bottom line, those are the ones that I am looking to support (Michael, his children, and the charities).
Then there is the Huffington Post. This name keeps popping up...
I might take some backlash from some but I don't follow TS much. Yes. he comes up with some incredible, jaw dropping information. Yes, he seems to have information before it's made public. Does that mean we need to believe him just because of that? Some would say yes. To me, what are his motives...that has not been made clear enough in my mind. Hopefully in time this will be known but I won't lose sleep if that never comes. Honestly, Serenity Dreams and many others have posted information that has been as insightful and inspiring as TS. That is just my humble opinion.
I guess it's okay that people believe in him/her but too many people put their faith in one person and when that person can't hold up to the expectations the individual puts on them it creates disappointment and confusion. I've also seen some become a little lethargic while waiting to be spoon-fed the next piece of information from TS. It's almost like a pauper and a king. On one hand you are used to finding your own way, searching for the next meal. On the other hand you are used to having others fetch your meal for you and you forget how to fight on your own. Sometimes it's not all good to be the king.
I haven't been bothered by TS - whether they reveal their identity or not, whether they are who they say they are, whether their information is 100% accurate. And that is because I base my belief on the whole, not on the part. I continue to put all of the pieces side by side (that I believe are valid) and form my opinion based on that, not on what one mysterious person with exceptional writing skills put in writing.
Have a blessed day everyone. I look forward to hearing more of your thoughts Uranus.
P.S. - Gema....I couldn't agree more. If I wanted to follow the Elvis hoax I would have joined an Elvis hoax forum. Good luck to Eliza though...
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Michael is using the media to expose the media lies, it is as simple as that imo.
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Hi and welcome,
Let me get this straight...you have been watching this whole forum for about 17months...you know,or seem to know the ins and outs of TS and what is going on and you only just signed up to speak your mind?
Why now?
Not saying it's a bad thing it is just a strange thing to understand.
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Hi and welcome,
Let me get this straight...you have been watching this whole forum for about 17months...you know,or seem to know the ins and outs of TS and what is going on and you only just signed up to speak your mind?
Why now?
Not saying it's a bad thing it is just a strange thing to understand.
I'm one big ear to hear the story...
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I think people are not getting the point. First of all it's very convenient we have a 'new' member backing up the Sony killed MJ murder theory, but that aside...
It is not the point that people on here only follow TS and would stop believing if he turned out to be fooling with hoaxers. We all came here before TS and I already was 100% sure Mike wasn't dead before I ever heard of STUDY or TS. TS is only confirming our beliefs and presenting us pieces of the puzzle. Many all of a sudden are starting to question TS and his intentions, while they have nothing to back it up but Sony. That in my opinion is not thinking for yourself, that is typical fan behaviour: Sony is bad because MJ said so...
Is Sony really bad? Maybe, maybe Mike IS out thinking them. have posted a theory about Sony being in the hoax yet being screwed by Mike a long time ago. That is option one. But maybe the whole 'Sony sucks' is a hoax within a hoax. Mike definitely had a problem with Motolla, but who says he REALLY had a problem with Sony as well? We don't know that. All we know is that Sony is in, wheter voluntarily or not. My bet is that Sony is not stupid and therefore is working with Mike on this. Many people seem to have forgotten that MJ signed a new contract with Sony before June 25 and released at least 4 more box sets etc. via Sony, while he only had to give them one. Why would he do that? And besides that, Mike OWNS half of Sony/ATV, and who says he doesn't own it all by now?
TS gave valuable information and has proven himself legit many times. I think that the problem is from the people that are now doubting, is that they found out THEY were following TS like sheep and put all their faith in his posts. Apparently they never really understood the posts and can't see the big picture and that is where the confusion comes from. What is unfair is that they are now telling people on this forum that they did the same. I can tell you I didn't and I will never belive Mike died on June 25th, not even if TS turned out to be a fraud.
But let´s talk about that. For those claiming that Sony killed MJ and TS is a fraud, I would like to see you post a coherent theorythat backs up your claims. That means debunking TS´ posts, proving Sony killed MJ and eventually debunking the complete hoax and all hilarious actors like Murray. And of course all hints Mike left before June 25, starting from around 1988.
You are all telling us we are sheep and emotional and not thinking for ourselves, well give us something to think about then. I am very curious about how that story could be. All you are doing now is accusing people and starting a forum war based on Mo´s false assumption that the probate lawyer and TS gave us false information. Are we going to follow Mo who clearly is confused about the hoax and freaking out because she lost sight of the complete picture? Or are we recapping and thinking for ourselves and how we ended up here in the first place?
Who is really testing who here and who is really failing? Stay true to yourself and keep using your head and you will be fine. And if you decided for yourself that Mike was murdered that is fine, but stop convincing others based on assumptions, but provide us with your proof.
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Gema was TS the that initiate Eliza's topic :roll:
I know :evil: and the only thing i can say about it is to let that woman have legal confirmation of who her father is. I don´t are about Elvis :evil: 33 years are too many years to care this late. If the man is alive fine, if he is dead, fine as well.
Michael Jackson death hoax has similarities with Elvis death but still i don´t get why so much interest in Eliza´s case.
Michael has a half sister and that is the only "relevance" I see.
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chica, no me regañes... :oops:
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chica, no me regañes... :oops:
Sorry :oops: i got carried away.... i am not angry at you
(http://www.4smileys.com/smileys/love-smileys/hug_smiley.gif)
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Guys what is going on here? Did I say anything about MJ being murdered? Did I say that Sony did it? The only thing that I implied is that the greed of those in power and wealth, such as Sony, is not to be underestimated and that we must not easily consider them as innocent. Mike’s collaboration with them through and through has motives that only Mike himself can explain. My only interest was to express my opinion and what I found. If you realized this connection between TS and Sony wouldn’t you want to share it with others? That’s how I decided to write. And yes I am new here (as a writer) and I don’t care whether you believe it or not, whether you like it or not and I don’t care to explain further. I wrote that article to raise a discussion with the people here. I will ask you to please concentrate on what I say (which is simple arguments and facts and not assumptions) instead of who I am and making personal attacks. The fact that some of us have different opinions to others, does not justify the fact that we face this prejudice, which means nothing more than simple ignorance. Do you know who we are and what have we been doing in our lives? Do you know how we think and act? No! Assuming that we have been following TS as sheep and other things like that proves your ignorance. Respect to be respected. I will not explain myself further and I am interested only in the subject that I wrote for. Thank you!
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I can understand people using alias' when they bring up subjective info on topics that are touchy like TS. Just look at how they ARE being attacked :? To me it's something to take in and either dismiss or investigate further. No need to kill the messenger. And in my eyes, they don't necessarily need to verify who they are. There is good info to be gotten sometimes from anonymous sources. I'm just sayin :roll:
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MJ<----------one subject
Eliza P<-----another subject
Can we separate those 2 from each other? they have nothing to do with each other as far as i am concerned.
Aaaaaaahhhhhggggggg, I just care about what happened to Miiiiichaaaeeeeeel
(http://images.zaazu.com/img/pain-pain-ache-headache-smiley-emoticon-000336-large.gif)
HIGH F&*@ING FIVE.
This is a Michael Jackson Hoax forum,personally I am not too interested in what Eliza P is doing I don't see any relevance to Michael's 'death',hoax,family or anything.
It might be connected in the fact it is a conspiracy but the two things are getting far too tangled up with one another and splitting the forum...
As for the poster of this thread-You are right you don't have to explain who you are but you are asking for a lot of respect and trust from members on here who put a lot of time,effort,belief and love into the threads and Michael and you are completley new here.It takes time for people to trust other people on a forum where everyone more or less is hidden behind a secret identity.You could be anyone,and saying you have been...for want of a better word 'lurking' around for a year and a half without saying anything is probably why people want to know..why you have decided on speaking now.
Not a lecture..just saying.
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TS could tell us that he is "anybody" still will be our decision to believe it or not ;)
I am Beyoncé :)
Dear Ms Knowles....OH wait I just assumed you were THAT Beyonce' is there another one.??? hehehe....anyway I agree with your point!! We either believe what TS is saying or we don't. It is really black and white, no gray areas! Would knowing the exact identity of TS change the message that Michael is alive and what Michael's mission is! Maybe that is what people are really struggling with here!! Maybe looking for an out. And if proven TS is someone the general population doesn't like, then everything would be thrown out.
I think many have become tired and discouraged and are looking for a reason to say ..."uhh hu I knew it" Even if TS told us who they are, what if it is someone NO one has ever heard of would that become a focused argument? Michael said he had many close relationships that the general public knew nothing of . He can have close personal relationships that have this very same information, especially of this information is coming from Michael through them.
I would suspect NO ONE believes Michael sees what takes place here, because if so I would hate to think the conclusions that this poor man has come to about what he is seeing here. And that my friends is not a complete impossibility . What would any of you do if you knew with out a shadow of a doubt that Michael was sitting at a computer reading everything posted here???
Would the attitude in this forum change? I could bet my Turkey dinner it would and if that is the case, why not just be here as if it where so. That way there would be no regrets in the future! It is up to each individual as to how much of their heart they are willing to put on the line for Michael. You say it is painful to invest so much time and energy in believing what TS has said only to be let down, Is that what you are expecting? Can anyone possibly conceieve what Michael is going through if you believe he is alive? I would rather put it all on the line and it not be so, than put NONE on the line and it be very SO!!!
Love in every sense of the word is unconditional...other wise it is not really LOVE.
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How on Earth can people put so much hope on someone's words and then blame the person for being disappointed...
YOU are the only one to disappoint yourself by EXPECTING things that might never come, understanding things that maybe have different meanings, believing in side stories with the hope they lead you to Michael too... But you have to consider that all those stories and theories, are stories and theories.
We don't know who TS is, and honestly i really don't wanna know ! But please just stop jumping from black to white, because in the end NOBODY knows who this member is, where he has his info from and why he is releasing them in the very end.
You are free to trust whatever you want, but just keep in mind that if you get fooled, you're the only one who allowed that...
I honestly hope from all the people who got themselves into that, that TS is a good person, but i just think there are more important issues to put our energy on concerning the world we're living...I don't think Michael ever said in TII or anywhere else : please, find who TS is.
Just stop looking for Michael and start looking for what he wants you to find in YOURSELF
(Sorry, i'm in a bad mood and just pissed off with all this BS, it's time wasting...)
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I agree with you WYHS 100%
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Puff I hear what you're saying but wasn't TS connected to TMZ and/or Sony a long time ago, certainly the predictions indicated that. And if so why is it lately the Eliza thing is casting that connection in a suspicious light? As soon as that happened a few people either took that as confirmation of their beliefs or changed their minds completely and decided this was a cover-up of a murder. Some made that change almost instantly. Yet he had suggested other things that didn't happen. I think something else is going on here and I think it's a deliberate stirring of the pot because we're being tested.
This is exactly my gut feeling.
Puff, you have never been so active on the forum as you have been the last few days. You are more passionate about this topic then you have been about any other previous in the history of your involvement in the hoax. This is my observation.
I am super suspicious about this whole... thing that is going on with these "new" Sony murder theories and repeated unsuccessful attempts to debunk TS. I'm all for counter theories and reflection, and looking at old information from new angles but this is setting off all sorts of red flags in my mind. Something is afoot. In my opinion, there seems to be an ulterior motive here.
For MJJC it was Breaking News and the debates over it created a massive rift in the fan community. Outside influences fanned the flames of their fear and confusion and disappointment turning to rage that had no physical outlet causing them to turn on each other.
That was very clearly by design. The voice alterations on BN have a purpose and that is to deceive. The song's release without explanation was meant to confuse. The MJ Estate is aware of the MJJC community and through known and stated Admin connections, they were aware of the unrest that was going on there. Releasing the subsequent "statement" verifying Sony's statement that the vocals are all MJ with no further explanation of the "catch" made it clear... the fan war BN sparked was not to be quashed, it was designed to suffer a long, slow burn.
So for us will the catalyst be New Non-Believers? Our own previous insiders, or what appeared to be insiders, suddenly having a startling change of heart and become prolifically outspoken against TS and adamantly support the new-old-full-of-holes murder theory? Possible. Maybe I'm wrong. All I know is my gut says something is up and I should keep my eyes open here going forward.
Ps. I'm fine with this test if someone wanted to call what's going on here that. I am confident enough in my own judgment over what has transpired to face just about anything on the boards. We are all in this together. We shall not fail and tear each other apart. I believe in my heart, and in what I've witnessed, that we as a community have learned the lessons of the past. Bring on whatever test YOU (who ever fits the shoe out there in internet land) can throw at us. We are stronger then your test and we will beat it because we are the army of love.
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TS could tell us that he is "anybody" still will be our decision to believe it or not ;)
I am Beyoncé :)
You always kill me! :lol:
Uranus, I enjoyed your clear presentation of your concerns. We have discussed this whole who is TS and what if's ad naseum, off and on for 17 months, possibly hundreds of threads, so you'll have to excuse the tired-sounding responses. For me, since I also believed MJ hoaxed his death long before TIAI arrived, I came to him as a close friend of or MJ himself, and read his posts with that in mind as if I was talking to him in person, and everything made perfect sense to me (except the Elvis/Eliza emphasis, but I'm patient) because of that. If I hadn't believed already, then it probably would have frustrated me too. Number 1 for me, has always been MJ's children; they have never appeared sad, and their open, confident participation in the memorial, music awards, Oprah interview, etc. totally convinces me that their Dad is fine and communicating with them regularly. Sounds to me that you possibly believe MJ is alive but just don't trust TS. If MJ is alive then Sony obviously didn't kill him, and the humor TMZ inserts into their MJ topics and "death" scenario is deliberately coming from MJ himself, Sony and AEG--kit and kaboodle. The biggest contribution TS has given is the ARG factor, giving us info on other related news that connects to MJ, and clear impossible mathematical odds of the coididences of the hoax being random, showing MJ planned it years ago and continues involvement to today. The thousands of intricate arranging of hoax details would require much manpower and time on the part of Sony, for what--certainly not money, for there are only a very tiny minority of beLIEves, and both believers or not still continue to buy MJ products regardless. There has been pure LOVE gone into this hoax creation, and there's no way Sony has the love to do this. Feel the love and genius, it's coming from MJ.
At this stage of the game, we should not be so easily shaken. As someone posted recently, it is painful to sit on the fence.
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Puff I hear what you're saying but wasn't TS connected to TMZ and/or Sony a long time ago, certainly the predictions indicated that. And if so why is it lately the Eliza thing is casting that connection in a suspicious light? As soon as that happened a few people either took that as confirmation of their beliefs or changed their minds completely and decided this was a cover-up of a murder. Some made that change almost instantly. Yet he had suggested other things that didn't happen. I think something else is going on here and I think it's a deliberate stirring of the pot because we're being tested.
This is exactly my gut feeling.
Puff, you have never been so active on the forum as you have been the last few days. You are more passionate about this topic then you have been about any other previous in the history of your involvement in the hoax. This is my observation.
I am super suspicious about this whole... thing that is going on with these "new" Sony murder theories and repeated unsuccessful attempts to debunk TS. I'm all for counter theories and reflection, and looking at old information from new angles but this is setting off all sorts of red flags in my mind. Something is afoot. In my opinion, there seems to be an ulterior motive here.
For MJJC it was Breaking News and the debates over it created a massive rift in the fan community. Outside influences fanned the flames of their fear and confusion and disappointment turning to rage that had no physical outlet causing them to turn on each other.
That was very clearly by design. The voice alterations on BN have a purpose and that is to deceive. The song's release without explanation was meant to confuse. The MJ Estate is aware of the MJJC community and through known and stated Admin connections, they were aware of the unrest that was going on there. Releasing the subsequent "statement" verifying Sony's statement that the vocals are all MJ with no further explanation of the "catch" made it clear... the fan war BN sparked was not to be quashed, it was designed to suffer a long, slow burn.
So for us will the catalyst be New Non-Believers? Our own previous insiders, or what appeared to be insiders, suddenly having a startling change of heart and become prolifically outspoken against TS and adamantly support the new-old-full-of-holes murder theory? Possible. Maybe I'm wrong. All I know is my gut says something is up and I should keep my eyes open here going forward.
Ps. I'm fine with this test if someone wanted to call what's going on here that. I am confident enough in my own judgment over what has transpired to face just about anything on the boards. We are all in this together. We shall not fail and tear each other apart. I believe in my heart, and in what I've witnessed, that we as a community have learned the lessons of the past. Bring on whatever test YOU (who ever fits the shoe out there in internet land) can throw at us. We are stronger then your test and we will beat it because we are the army of love.
bec, I salute you!
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We stand strong Souza.
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Ps. I'm fine with this test if someone wanted to call what's going on here that. I am confident enough in my own judgment over what has transpired to face just about anything on the boards. We are all in this together. We shall not fail and tear each other apart. I believe in my heart, and in what I've witnessed, that we as a community have learned the lessons of the past. Bring on whatever test YOU (who ever fits the shoe out there in internet land) can throw at us. We are stronger then your test and we will beat it because we are the army of love
Very well said Ms Bec
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Hallelujah! ;) Beautifully put bec.
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We stand strong Souza.
Solid as a rock! This discussion is going in circles and I am tired of repeating myself. If people will believe TS is a fraud without having solid arguments to back up their claims, that's fine by me. "I have faith the truth will prevail" and I have a hell of a lot patience left.
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I believe things happen for a reason and this morning I was reading the book "As a Man Thinketh" by James Allen. With all the seeds of doubt being planted, suspicions arising etc. I felt compelled to share a few thoughts, from the book, with you.
To live continually in thoughts of ill will, cynicism, suspicion, and envy is to be confined to a self-made prison.
Think positive thoughts.
Look for the good in others.
Dwell in thoughts of peace.
To say that we are soldiers in the Army of LOVE will take a lot more than just saying it. We have to LIVE it. It starts in our minds... With our thoughts.
I truly love you guys and want the best for all of us. I know we can make a major impact on this world but as someone we know said, we have to start by looking in the mirror.
Let's do what we can to start there.
Thank you Uranus, and to all discussing on this thread, for sharing your thoughts. Much appreciated!
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I think people are not getting the point. First of all it's very convenient we have a 'new' member backing up the Sony killed MJ murder theory, but that aside...
It is not the point that people on here only follow TS and would stop believing if he turned out to be fooling with hoaxers. We all came here before TS and I already was 100% sure Mike wasn't dead before I ever heard of STUDY or TS. TS is only confirming our beliefs and presenting us pieces of the puzzle. Many all of a sudden are starting to question TS and his intentions, while they have nothing to back it up but Sony. That in my opinion is not thinking for yourself, that is typical fan behaviour: Sony is bad because MJ said so...
Is Sony really bad? Maybe, maybe Mike IS out thinking them. have posted a theory about Sony being in the hoax yet being screwed by Mike a long time ago. That is option one. But maybe the whole 'Sony sucks' is a hoax within a hoax. Mike definitely had a problem with Motolla, but who says he REALLY had a problem with Sony as well? We don't know that. All we know is that Sony is in, wheter voluntarily or not. My bet is that Sony is not stupid and therefore is working with Mike on this. Many people seem to have forgotten that MJ signed a new contract with Sony before June 25 and released at least 4 more box sets etc. via Sony, while he only had to give them one. Why would he do that? And besides that, Mike OWNS half of Sony/ATV, and who says he doesn't own it all by now?
TS gave valuable information and has proven himself legit many times. I think that the problem is from the people that are now doubting, is that they found out THEY were following TS like sheep and put all their faith in his posts. Apparently they never really understood the posts and can't see the big picture and that is where the confusion comes from. What is unfair is that they are now telling people on this forum that they did the same. I can tell you I didn't and I will never belive Mike died on June 25th, not even if TS turned out to be a fraud.
But let´s talk about that. For those claiming that Sony killed MJ and TS is a fraud, I would like to see you post a coherent theorythat backs up your claims. That means debunking TS´ posts, proving Sony killed MJ and eventually debunking the complete hoax and all hilarious actors like Murray. And of course all hints Mike left before June 25, starting from around 1988.
You are all telling us we are sheep and emotional and not thinking for ourselves, well give us something to think about then. I am very curious about how that story could be. All you are doing now is accusing people and starting a forum war based on Mo´s false assumption that the probate lawyer and TS gave us false information. Are we going to follow Mo who clearly is confused about the hoax and freaking out because she lost sight of the complete picture? Or are we recapping and thinking for ourselves and how we ended up here in the first place?
Who is really testing who here and who is really failing? Stay true to yourself and keep using your head and you will be fine. And if you decided for yourself that Mike was murdered that is fine, but stop convincing others based on assumptions, but provide us with your proof.
Very well put Souza :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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"Eat the fish and throw away the bone" is what my grandmother use to say. For me, I think for myself and respect the wisdom of others -- there is much insight here and I appreciate the indivduality. When I'm on a thread, I actually read everyone's posts and give thought to all of it. I take what I think is useful from a variety of sources (members including TS, other forums and blogs), and I discard what isn't palatable for me or I ignore what I'm not interested in at the moment. At times TS is relevant to me and at other times TS is not. I don't necessarily discount someone because there's something I don't agree with. Sometimes I agree with certain things a person says, other things I disagree with because I think for myself. Yet, a person isn't all bad because I don't agree with them or they view something incorrectly and err. I can make a distinction between someone who is rotten to their core vs. someone who makes a mistake. No one is right 100% of the time. Even Michael has made mistakes in his lifetime. And to question someone, like TS, I see nothing wrong with.
Ultimately, it is Michael's speeches, interviews and lyrics that brought me to the hoax and the "facts" in his death were not adding up to me. That said, it is TS who brought me to this particular forum almost a year ago. This is not the only forum or blog I follow. Ultimately, I have to think through the facts myself and take breaks from all these sources to put the facts together that make sense to me. No one tells me what to do. I am confident that almost everyone here feels the same. I don't think we'd even be talking about a hoax if we weren't independent thinkers. After all, who's around us in our everyday lives or in the media agreeing with us? Not many. If someone is looking for "sheeple", they better look elsewhere.
When I joined on 12/22/09, I read the following TS thread (see below) and I wrote on that day that I appreciated the post and decided to join this forum because of it eventhough I'd been reading here before I joined. Since then, I don't follow everything TS says. I have not followed the Elvis/Eliza story until this blew up the other day so then I played catch-up. I still do not understand all that and I don't think I care at the moment. I agree with some of the numerology because of what we see from Michael especially on his clothes. 777 has to mean somethng to him! I know how well read Michael is -- just listen to his interview with Jesse Jackson for one. We know he paid attention to world events and he was part of an elite inner circle. I knew about NWO and such long before MJ and I do believe it exists. How much is it related to MJ... who knows but MJ... I've paid attention to what Back has to say as well as Blackjack. BJ creates much discussion and thought and that works for me. Hell, for all we know, BJ, Back and TS could be the same person or operating from the same camp. Overall, the members here are thoughtful who I respect immensely and many heads can be better than one. Even so, we must come to our final conclusions ourselves.
I do not quite know what to make of the public spat between Mo and Souza. My mind first goes to this being a test because it seems to have come out of the blue -- that's my first instinct about this. My second is that division among the leaders of this forum can cause its destruction. I remember what happened to the first forum and I'm watching this. It's interesting to me that we've gone from troll to troll to troll as well as public outcrys from Riley, Will.i.am, Randy etc. and now this. I don't believe in coincidences of this sort so I am watching. Period. I'll likely not talk much more on this forum and just watch for now.
None of us, at this point, are sure why Michael faked his death. I do not believe he was murdered or is dead. (I just watch DD on LKL if I ever get that feeling and I remember what a member here, who was at the burial -- and private funeral, said about DD at the burial.) I believe MJ needed to protect his legacy, which include his children at home and all over the world. I believe he has a mission to fulfill ordained by God. I think I hear him say he did not trust Mottola OR Sony. Sony screwed him over. Yet in the Killer Thriller interview, MJ does say he owns half of Sony. Did he mean the catalog or Sony proper? I am suspicious of Sony more than I am of AEG (they could be one in the same for all we know) but, I'm not taking anything for granted and not all facts are clear to me at this time.
I have my own theories too. I've mentioned them but they don't generate much discussion on this forum. I might be saying something that exposes too much too soon.. In any case, I'm working on where all the facts and twists lead me and I do that with my own very sane and sound mind.
Report this postReply with quoteTIAI Revealed, Part 1: Who Is Behind TIAI?
by TS » Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:50 am
TIAI Revealed, Part 1: Who Is Behind TIAI?
“IN WHAT WILL GO DOWN IN HISTORY
AS THE GREATEST DEMONSTRATION FOR FREEDOM ...”
Note: TIAI Revealed has 9 parts, and may take a couple of hours to read. If that seems like too much, then please read at least this part 1 (Who Is Behind TIAI?) before deciding whether to read the rest. To read the other 8 parts, click here: {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/search.php?author_id=1440&sr=posts}
TIAI Revealed, Part 1: Who Is Behind TIAI?
TIAI Revealed, Part 2: Outline of Redirections
TIAI Revealed, Part 3: Purpose of TIAI (R1 - R7)
TIAI Revealed, Part 4: Art Is Resistance (R8 - R12)
TIAI Revealed, Part 5: Solving the Clues (R13 - R19)
TIAI Revealed, Part 6: “This Is It” Movie Rating (R20 - R28)
TIAI Revealed, Part 7: NWO Powers Control the Mass Media (R29 - R42)
TIAI Revealed, Part 8: The End Is Near (R43 - R48)
TIAI Revealed, Part 9: Today is 12-21-2009 (R49)
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Speculation About Who Is Behind TIAI
Although many have taken http://www.ThisIsAlsoIt.com (http://www.ThisIsAlsoIt.com) (TIAI) seriously—and thought that either Michael Jackson himself or someone from the MJ camp is behind the TIAI redirects—yet many others have assumed that TIAI is merely someone playing with the feelings of MJ fans. And some have even attempted to dismiss TIAI by identifying a specific person or website that is operating TIAI.
Many of these web pages and hoax forums have a lot of good information on them. However, the truth is that ever since the TIAI redirections began: no statement has been made by TIAI on any website of any kind—except of course the redirections are statements; and also one short reveal date announcement was made on 12-15-09 {http://www.youtube.com/user/TIAIrevealed}.
Prior to the start of TIAI, however, I did post about half a dozen threads on MJHD; no doubt those who read my threads will remember them. In my first few posts, the information presented had amazed some of the most advanced hoax investigators—and even had some questioning whether I was MJ, or at least someone very close to MJ. At the time, I was going by the screen name S.T.U.D.Y. Once “This Is It” started showing in the theatres: it appeared as though I was “gone”; but in reality I was still watching, “directing” TIAI from behind the scenes, until the right time for me to “reappear” (does this sound familiar?).
For those who may still question the validity of TIAI, let me point out several things which should show clearly that I’m not a fake (also, anyone who reads all 9 parts should be very certain that I am not faking it).
First, I am the one who brought out the 9 parallels between the Joey Skaggs “Final Curtain” hoax, and the MJ “Final Curtain Call” hoax {http://mjdeathoax.forumotion.com/this-is-it-f9/thisisalsiitcom-t89.htm}. I am also the one who revealed the 1998 MJ autograph codes, and predicted the 9-9-09 connections to “This Is It” a couple days before 9-9-09; and indeed that prediction came true {http://mjkit.forumotion.net/the-numbers-theory-for-all-theories-regarding-the-numbers-theory-f58/from-mjhd-excellent-the-9-9-09-prediction-did-come-true-this-is-it-settles-the-question-is-mj-alive-t1766.htm}.
I also predicted, more than a month before “This Is It” was seen by the public, that the MJ “resurrection” scene would not be at a funeral with MJ coming out of the casket; instead, I said it would be a graveyard scene, like original Thriller (see TIAI Revealed, Part 6). This came true, with the graveyard and spider “resurrection” scene during Thriller 2.
Another prediction of mine was that “This Is It” would reveal the hoax. And although the hoax was not revealed as blatantly as some of us were expecting, yet anyone who was paying attention did see the hoax revealed in the movie (lack of MJ R.I.P., or any mention of his death; Smooth Criminal hoaxed death; MJ statement after the credits; etc). Furthermore, we still haven’t seen all of “This Is It”; the DVD & Blu-ray has more, specifically on Smooth Criminal (hoax death) & Thriller (resurrection)—and you can be sure that this home version will reveal the hoax to an even greater degree than the cinema version. For more details on this rated “R” prediction, etc: see TIAI Revealed, Part 6.
If anyone questions whether I actually stated these things before the fact, and not after, you might be able to find them on Google cache. And anyone reading this now, who remembers these things, please post a comment: verifying that your memory fits with what I am saying.
At the movie premier, Jermaine said: “this is really not it, there is going to be much, much, more …” {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q2yIV-LaPI} There was also talk around that time of something more, relating to “This Is It”, coming out in December 2009—do you remember that? Well guess what, it is now December! And was it just a coincidence that I (S.T.U.D.Y.) am the same one who ended up with TIAI.com??
One of the first TIAI redirects was the movie trailer for “2012”; this was more than a week before the full movie was made public. Then when it was released, the public could see that the main character’s name was “Jackson”—and that he was on a mission to save the world; and they thought that he had died, but then found he was still alive; and many other parallels, that were not found in the trailer. Was it a coincidence that I redirected to the “2012” trailer, several days before the MJ parallels were known to the public?
There are many other things which should make it very clear that I am not faking it; but I won’t continue with them here—you will have to read all 9 parts to get the rest of them. And although I am not MJ, I do have information about MJ and the hoax that has not yet been fully understood. Again, anyone who reads all 9 parts will have no doubt that I do have some very important information. I am not going to say right now how I got this information; many would not believe me if I told you. But I will reveal this when the time is right. Anyway, how I got the information is not nearly as important as whether or not the information is true. So I am not asking anyone to believe what I say based upon my claim of where it came from; rather, I am asking you to let the evidence speak for itself.
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Speculation About the Purpose of TIAI
I love all of you hoax believers, even those who have opposed TIAI; and I also love the non-believers. In fact, I love all people of all races and all religions. But many hoax believers have not taken TIAI seriously, based primarily or entirely on assumption—not on any solid evidence. Good investigators do not dismiss any avenue of investigation, unless there is very solid evidence that it’s not valid. Actually, TIAI is the farthest from goofing around as you can possibly get; anyone who reads all 9 parts will know this for certain, without a trace of doubt.
If anyone continues to oppose TIAI, without reading these 9 parts: please remind them that MJ said “prejudice is ignorance”; and this includes more than just racial prejudice. Pre-jud-ice means to be pre-judge-ish, to judge prematurely. If someone has read all 9 parts, and still wants to oppose TIAI, that is fine; but if anyone makes objections blindly in the dark, they are prejudice. Albert Einstein said: “Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance.”
During the course of the redirections, a common reason given for not accepting TIAI, was that there was no new information—so apparently TIAI was getting information from hoax forums, instead of the other way around. Even if that were true (and it’s not), it wouldn’t necessarily prove that TIAI is fake; the fact is that thousands are watching TIAI, few of which are advanced hoax investigators who already know all these things—and in fact some watching aren’t even hoax believers (yet).
Another point is that even if advanced hoax investigators already know each piece in the puzzle (each redirection): this does not mean that they have already put all the puzzle pieces together, and already see the bigger picture—in fact, if they did already see the bigger picture, then why haven’t they posted it already? Again, anyone who reads all 9 parts here will see that TIAI presents a big picture which nobody else has fully brought out before now.
Finally, it is not even true that TIAI never pointed to anything new. Some examples are the Year Zero ARG (true, ARG’s had been discussed before this, but not this specific one and its relationship to the whole hoax, etc); the Art Is Resistance poster (MJ AIR); Performance Art; the JFK connection, and the George magazine title; the Titanic; and the Ark of the Covenant; etc.
A similar idea was that TIAI was merely mocking statements made on the hoax forums—such as CeeLovesMJ said “I’m going to ‘ease on down the road’”; then shortly after that, TIAI redirected to the Yellow Brick Road {http://mjkit.forumotion.net/all-odd-things-f8/this-is-also-it-t3233-325.htm}. The simple fact is, as you can see the date on the forum thread, it was 11-16-09; and the redirect to the Yellow Brick Road & Emerald City had already been planned to display on 11-17-09 for several reasons, including the fact that this day was a one-time special 70th anniversary showing of the Wizard of Oz {http://www.ncm.com/Fathom/Premiere/WizardofOz_Encore.aspx}.
Especially during the redirections about JFK and conspiracies: some were saying that TIAI is merely trying to create fear, and control people through fear. This in spite of the fact that an earlier redirect said “It’s All For LOVE”; and another redirect was included after the JFK ones, saying “People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.” The purpose of TIAI is not to create fear; rather, it is to create awareness and awakening and hope, which can lead to more safety and less fear.
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Forum Discussions About TIAI Revealed
For those who want the answer to the billion-dollar question: when will MJ return? You will need to read all 9 parts, in order to get a clear answer. Also, TIAI is now going to be heavily discussed in all of the hoax forums and beyond; so if you read everything, then you will be able to join the discussions with a good understanding of the information being discussed.
For the most part, I will not be involved personally in the discussions; but I will occasionally answer objections to what I am revealing now. However, I don’t know everything, and I won’t attempt to answer questions about MJ or the hoax that are not directly related to the subjects in these 9 parts.
For those who are interested, please feel free to post your comments on these TIAI Revealed threads. However, please be careful to stay on topic; there will be thousands of people or more, reading these posts. Since there is already a lot to read, we don’t want them to spend even more time reading through things that are not related. Also, try to keep your discussion under the most relevant thread in the 9 parts (for example: discuss 911 in part 4, which had a specific redirect about 911—rather than part 7, which just briefly mentioned 911 along with several other conspiracies).Last edited by TS on Fri Dec 25, 2009 4:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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I agree totally with the previous few posts, common sense has to prevail here. As Souza pointed out, even if TS didn't turn out to be genuine, who would really abandon all they knew to be true before he arrived on the scene? I certainly wouldn't. And she makes a very valid point about us not knowing exactly how much of Sony Michael actually owns. It's nice to see so many of us are still on track.
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Thank you for posting this...and for being so thorough in your research and explanation. I enjoyed reading what you have to say.
I also believe that while TS's identity isn't important to what we think about Michael, it is important to the hoax itself and who is behind it. Who is behind it...Sony? Michael? AEG? Fans/non-fans? TMZ? Hmmm.....
I wonder if you believe that if TS is someone from Sony, are they doing this to profit only from Michael's name or to help him?
I disliked Sony very much when I first joined this hoax January of this year. I was conflicted as to whether to support Sony backed projects or not. My final decision is not based on TS but based on who I believe is profiting. Yes, clearly Sony is profiting. But so is Michael and so is Michael's Estate (which mean his children and mother). And if the Estate if profiting, then so are charities that the 20% is supposed to go to. And, bottom line, those are the ones that I am looking to support (Michael, his children, and the charities).
Then there is the Huffington Post. This name keeps popping up...
I might take some backlash from some but I don't follow TS much. Yes. he comes up with some incredible, jaw dropping information. Yes, he seems to have information before it's made public. Does that mean we need to believe him just because of that? Some would say yes. To me, what are his motives...that has not been made clear enough in my mind. Hopefully in time this will be known but I won't lose sleep if that never comes. Honestly, Serenity Dreams and many others have posted information that has been as insightful and inspiring as TS. That is just my humble opinion.
I guess it's okay that people believe in him/her but too many people put their faith in one person and when that person can't hold up to the expectations the individual puts on them it creates disappointment and confusion. I've also seen some become a little lethargic while waiting to be spoon-fed the next piece of information from TS. It's almost like a pauper and a king. On one hand you are used to finding your own way, searching for the next meal. On the other hand you are used to having others fetch your meal for you and you forget how to fight on your own. Sometimes it's not all good to be the king.
I haven't been bothered by TS - whether they reveal their identity or not, whether they are who they say they are, whether their information is 100% accurate. And that is because I base my belief on the whole, not on the part. I continue to put all of the pieces side by side (that I believe are valid) and form my opinion based on that, not on what one mysterious person with exceptional writing skills put in writing.
Have a blessed day everyone. I look forward to hearing more of your thoughts Uranus.
P.S. - Gema....I couldn't agree more. If I wanted to follow the Elvis hoax I would have joined an Elvis hoax forum. Good luck to Eliza though...
Amen brother/sister!
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Reaching the truth, requires walking the way of doubt. Doubt doesn't mean suspicion, but awareness. Awareness requires always having an open mind to sense the reality unfolding around us. The reality cannot be sensed through unwillingness to give up what we have formerly accepted as real. So, instead of making assumptions on whether MJ owns Sony or not, whether someone wants to stop beLIEvers from beLIEving or not(perhaps brainwash them or any other spooky staff) and whether we want things to be one way or another, it would much be wiser to focus on what's happening around us. Nobody knows what has really happened, that is what we try to figure out. This means that every clue about our subject is valuable. Understanding the close connection between TS and Sony, just takes us one step further, because we know that someone from there cares about the hoax. The next question is "why?". The possibilities are obviously four:
1) He/She is someone respectful to MJ sharing his/her information.
2) He/She is a crazy fan.
3) He/She works on account of MJ.
4) He/She works on account of Sony.
The possibilities 1,3 and 4 affect the hoax and what we are looking for on its whole. And that is much more than a good reason to search further.
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We stand strong Souza.
Solid as a rock! This discussion is going in circles and I am tired of repeating myself. If people will believe TS is a fraud without having solid arguments to back up their claims, that's fine by me. "I have faith the truth will prevail" and I have a hell of a lot patience left.
I'm so very glad about that, because I'm thankful for and love this forum and all the people here, and this really scares me:
SoldierofLOVE
I do not quite know what to make of the public spat between Mo and Souza. My mind first goes to this being a test because it seems to have come out of the blue -- that's my first instinct about this. My second is that division among the leaders of this forum can cause its destruction. I remember what happened to the first forum and I'm watching this. It's interesting to me that we've gone from troll to troll to troll as well as public outcrys from Riley, Will.i.am, Randy etc. and now this. I don't believe in coincidences of this sort so I am watching. Period. I'll likely not talk much more on this forum and just watch for now.
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I am so happy and proud to see how some of us have reacted.
I am seeing the testing in all of this and in how these challenges in thought can make us stronger.
Again from the same book I'm reading (see above post by me) it talks about being clear in our purpose and that thought without a purpose is just aimless and senseless.
We must begin with a purpose (investigating MJ's death hoax)
Mark out a straight path to it's achievement
Put the blinders on and follow that path
Rid of doubt and fears (as this leads to failure)
Doubts and fears are the greatest enemy of knowledge
Lastly, accept individual responsibility to follow that path
I've been following TS because that is my choice. When new information is presented, even if it is against what you believe, it is healthy. It will lead to further investigation. However, if it creates a doubt in your mind, it is your responsibility to think for yourself, do the research, and rechoose the path you are on.
If you believe TS (whoever he is) then continue following the redirects. If the doubt rang true for you, then don't follow anymore.
Simple as that.
But there is NO ROOM for fear and doubt on this journey... and we are on a journey together, yes, but we are also each on our own journeys.
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Reaching the truth, requires walking the way of doubt. Doubt doesn't mean suspicion, but awareness. Awareness requires always having an open mind to sense the reality unfolding around us. The reality cannot be sensed through unwillingness to give up what we have formerly accepted as real. So, instead of making assumptions on whether MJ owns Sony or not, whether someone wants to stop beLIEvers from beLIEving or not(perhaps brainwash them or any other spooky staff) and whether we want things to be one way or another, it would much be wiser to focus on what's happening around us. Nobody knows what has really happened, that is what we try to figure out. This means that every clue about our subject is valuable. Understanding the close connection between TS and Sony, just takes us one step further, because we know that someone from there cares about the hoax. The next question is "why?". The possibilities are obviously four:
1) He/She is someone respectful to MJ sharing his information.
2) He/She is a crazy fan.
3) He/She works on account of MJ.
4) He/She works on account of Sony.
The possibilities 1,3 and 4 affect the hoax and what we are looking for on its whole. And that is much more than a good reason to search further.
But if you only focus on TS/Sony you cannot have the right answer. You have to take the big picture as a whole. There are so many players in this game. This is an intricate puzzle where all the pieces have to assembled together. Picking one of them and trying to debunk it on the corner of the table will not help and on the contrary it only widens the possibilities to have it wrong. Connecting the dots is the rule in this game.
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Reaching the truth, requires walking the way of doubt. Doubt doesn't mean suspicion, but awareness. Awareness requires always having an open mind to sense the reality unfolding around us. The reality cannot be sensed through unwillingness to give up what we have formerly accepted as real. So, instead of making assumptions on whether MJ owns Sony or not, whether someone wants to stop beLIEvers from beLIEving or not(perhaps brainwash them or any other spooky staff) and whether we want things to be one way or another, it would much be wiser to focus on what's happening around us. Nobody knows what has really happened, that is what we try to figure out. This means that every clue about our subject is valuable. Understanding the close connection between TS and Sony, just takes us one step further, because we know that someone from there cares about the hoax. The next question is "why?". The possibilities are obviously four:
1) He/She is someone respectful to MJ sharing his information.
2) He/She is a crazy fan.
3) He/She works on account of MJ.
4) He/She works on account of Sony.
The possibilities 1,3 and 4 affect the hoax and what we are looking for on its whole. And that is much more than a good reason to search further.
But if you only focus on TS/Sony you cannot have the right answer. You have to take the big picture as a whole. There are so many players in this game. This is an intricate puzzle where all the pieces have to assembled together. Picking one of them and trying to debunk it on the corner of the table will not help and on the contrary it only widens the possibilities to have it wrong. Connecting the dots is the rule in this game.
But we do not disagree... I only say that this is an important dot to unveil. ;)
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8-)
Ur anus,
The fact that we all keep our identities secret is strange. Who are you? Who am I? Seriously the arguement that TS is secret holds no value at all. We all are anonymous here.
Every arguement you made towards TS being involved with SONY as a bad thing also shows the connection to Michael. Jackson in 2012, is connected to Michael Jackson right?
TS knows about This is it CD means it is connected to Michael who chooses SONY to release his music, his movie and his video games. Your arguements trying to show how TS is connected to SONY only shows how connected to Michael it is. Your focusing on the simple minded stuff. Your focusing on predictions? If that's what ya wanna call em.
They are more like "I am giving you some of my secrets, if you pay attention to the right stuff" hee hee
This is a thinking persons game. This is a game like chess. Michael/TS is very smart. You must get inside of your own head and start to think. What is the next move?
The fact that TS keeps his identity secret is a bit strange…
In one of his/her posts he/she said that even if he/she revealed his/her identity, we wouldn’t believe him/her and that there was no point doing that. Well, we have passed through much more difficult matters than the identity of a person and we have learned when to beLIEve and when not to. As to whether knowing the identity of your major informer is necessary or not, the answer is absolutely yes. The information given on a subject is a most important part of understanding the facts, but the identity of the source of this information is equally important. This is because considering something as a clue just because someone claims it to be a clue, can control and direct your search and conclusion even if you have an excellent ability of judging.
Some people say that TS’s identity should remain secret because if he/she is someone near the MJ camp everyone will believe him/her and follow him/her without judging and acting on their own will, while if he/she has no close connection to the MJ camp everyone will reject him/her and stop believing him/her. Well, this does not stand as an excuse at all. We do not need communicational tricks to form our opinions and the power of someone’s words should stand only for what his/her words are and not for how he/she promotes them. For example, when you say “prejudice is ignorance”, that idea can stand on its own despite who said it or how he/she promoted him/herself. After all, we can judge, criticize and think for ourselves in order to choose who we listen to and who we not, and this is the only way to support MJ and those who strive for humanity’s sake.
Let me point out something straight ahead… If TS’s revealed his/her identity Michael would definitely not be in danger. MJ’s supposed enemies are very powerful and have all the means necessary to achieve their goals. If MJ is a threat to them they would do everything possible to stop him. I don’t think that anyone argues whether those building the New World Order are capable of espionage or not. Actually they are capable of far more terrible things. So, if we have noticed that Michael is alive and plans to fight them, they have definitely noticed it too. And if TS is holding key information about MJ, considering that his/her acts via the internet are enough for them to detect him/her, he/she would have been caught by them by now. Moreover, MJ would never jeopardize his mission giving valuable information about it to someone that could be detected by his enemies and putting him/her in danger. So, the conclusion of this is that TS cannot have key information that put Michael’s life in danger.
As far as TS’s secrecy about his/her identity is concerned, I tend to believe that his/her connection to Sony is far closer than he/she has been willing to admit until now. Although, this is not necessarily bad, it is a bit suspicious. My search in the internet has provided some interesting information.
The fact that TS had always much information about MJ and his CD’s and the “This IS It” DVD before this information was available to anyone else can show a relation to Sony without much explanation and search.
TS also had always much information about TMZ. He/ She seemed to predict when they would publish specific subjects, have information from the inside and have knowledge of specific data and events before they would become known and happen, such as MJ police files and Murray’s trials. This can also suggest a connection to Sony, because Sony collaborates with TMZ, as the creator of a browser for mobile phones to establish connection to the TMZ channel and provide mobile phone users with access to TMZ news. That means that someone inside Sony can have TMZ information before it is published. Here is a link about that:
http://www.mobilemarketer.com/cms/news/media/756.html (http://www.mobilemarketer.com/cms/news/media/756.html)
Moreover, TS successfully predicted a relation to the 2012 film with the MJ hoax, before the film was available in the cinemas and generally in the public. As we know the major character’s name was Jackson. This suggests a relation between TS and Sony as well. The film was distributed by Columbia Pictures, which is owned by Sony. The related web pages are in the following link:
1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_(film (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_(film))
2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Pictures (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Pictures)
Finally, about the time that TS started his/her redirects(October 2009), Sony had shortly before announced that they would start the project "This Is Also It" due to the success of "This Is It", which would be about other dead starts and similar to "This IS It". They claimed this investment to be most profitable. One of the first sites to announce that was "The Huffington Post", which is a site used by TS for his/her clues. The mentioned article about the announcement is on the following link:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-boro ... 37576.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-borowitz/sony-to-release-this-is-i_b_337576.html)
This set of coincidences closely related to TS, statistically strongly suggests that TS is very close to the Sony camp. Note that my search was very rapid, which means that many more things can be found about TS’s relation to Sony, with a better and more thorough search.
All in all, TS's identity is not important to what we think or believe about Michael, or it is not more important than anyone else's identity. However, the fact that Sony profits from MJ and that they have abused him in the past raises concerns. The fact that those who have said that MJ is alive, such as Akon, Riley and Eros Ramazzotti are related to Sony and the first two profit from the new album’s sales, raises concerns as well. And I strongly believe that it is our right to know the source of our information, since we fight equally to TS and everyone else here, for more than a year now.
I neither blame nor accuse, I only suggest caution, awareness and thinking for ourselves.
I second that!
And don't forget what TS wrote about MJ's plan to outthink SONY....
4-28. MJ Certainly Had Something Big Planned
Is there any evidence that he has been planning this for years, maybe even decades? Yes, there are several things. One of which we already examined, and that is the autographs (1998, Dangerous code, etc). These all indicated at least something major on 9-9-09. The Liberian Girl video, from about twenty years ago, leaves us with a pretty strong feeling that he was already working on this plan back then.
Another thing is the MJ will, dated 7-7-02, exactly 7 years before the memorial
Just a few weeks before, MJ had spoken out and said: “... they never thought, that this performer, myself, would outthink them. ... I promise you, the best is yet to come.”
[youtube:1c89moac]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mx0Un9K5dKQ[/youtube:1c89moac]
and see this similar video, from just one day before the 7-7-02 will:
[youtube:1c89moac]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzGCZUT9DG4&feature=player_embedded[/youtube:1c89moac]
What was he referring to? What was his plan (outthinking), and when did he implement it? What was the “best” to come after 2002? And what was the big and “innovating” film “surprises” that he mentioned to Geraldo in 2005?
There seems to be no answer to these questions, unless of course the answer is Thriller II (TII). In fact, since MJ did do film clips for TII (Gilda fake death, spider resurrection, etc): then whatever he was planning, we can be quite sure “This Is It”.
This is it, a SONY movie, was his innovative project to outthink SONY......? That makes no sense at all....
[youtube:1c89moac]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5A-h8EVzbzs[/youtube:1c89moac]
There are alot more references in TS updates and redirects than just a SONY connection. If you take the time to actually click on the links and read or watch videos, you can come to a conclusion about where TS is getting his info from. The references in this part posted by Puff are from Michael himself. Out thinking SONY was just the start. He out thinks most of us here every day, lol
I read others comments and all I can say is @bec:
There is definetly something going on but, it is a natural human nature process. We are directing the flow of how this will work out in the end. Sorry to those I don't address personally but, I did read your thoughts. ;)
@navibl:
I always post my thoughts with the knowledge that indeed Michael is reading every word. I will have no regrets about what I say. I know he is paying close attention to his creation. The fact of TS revealing himself opening him up to ridicule, etc is already happening now so that won't make any difference.
FYI: I have posted alot of psycology material for a reason. I was trying to give those who will pay attention a upper hand in this thinking game. ;)
Peace
I love all of you hoax believers, even those who have opposed TIAI; and I also love the non-believers. In fact, I love all people of all races and all religions. But many hoax believers have not taken TIAI seriously, based primarily or entirely on assumption—not on any solid evidence. Good investigators do not dismiss any avenue of investigation, unless there is very solid evidence that it’s not valid. Actually, TIAI is the farthest from goofing around as you can possibly get; anyone who reads all 9 parts will know this for certain, without a trace of doubt.
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ROFL! :lol:
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Reaching the truth, requires walking the way of doubt. Doubt doesn't mean suspicion, but awareness. Awareness requires always having an open mind to sense the reality unfolding around us. The reality cannot be sensed through unwillingness to give up what we have formerly accepted as real. So, instead of making assumptions on whether MJ owns Sony or not, whether someone wants to stop beLIEvers from beLIEving or not(perhaps brainwash them or any other spooky staff) and whether we want things to be one way or another, it would much be wiser to focus on what's happening around us. Nobody knows what has really happened, that is what we try to figure out. This means that every clue about our subject is valuable. Understanding the close connection between TS and Sony, just takes us one step further, because we know that someone from there cares about the hoax. The next question is "why?". The possibilities are obviously four:
1) He/She is someone respectful to MJ sharing his information.
2) He/She is a crazy fan.
3) He/She works on account of MJ.
4) He/She works on account of Sony.
The possibilities 1,3 and 4 affect the hoax and what we are looking for on its whole. And that is much more than a good reason to search further.
But if you only focus on TS/Sony you cannot have the right answer. You have to take the big picture as a whole. There are so many players in this game. This is an intricate puzzle where all the pieces have to assembled together. Picking one of them and trying to debunk it on the corner of the table will not help and on the contrary it only widens the possibilities to have it wrong. Connecting the dots is the rule in this game.
But we do not disagree... I only say that this is an important dot to unveil. ;)
But (again lol) you are not unveiling anything here (lol :lol: don't try to understand) well here you are focusing on TS being involved or having ties with Sony... okay we know that and you've described some possibilities but you have not connected any dots.
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It is great to see some positivity coming out of Bec, Souza, Liwendy, MJonmind...etc
What is important through this test is to keep together.
For those looking for a good book to help you "Think for Yourself", "The Power of Positive Thinking" by Norman Vincent Peale is excellent, it demonstrates the power of Faith in action. "Think and Grow Rich" by Napoleon Hill is even better but it takes a few readings to get it! ;)
Back to our topic, the Sony connection has been discussed numerous time and my opinion remains constant:
In all Logic, Sony is part of the Hoax. I doubt that Sony Plc is involved, Sony is a publicly quoted company and being officially involved with the Hoax would simply be an unacceptable risk; however there is the possibility that at least one influential Sony Executive (most probably from within Sony Entertainment) is in the know and manipulating things from inside with MJ/ MJ team "guidance". Another possibility is that NOBODY at Sony is in the Know and the Estate Executives (McClain or Branca) are stirring matters at will with their experience in the music industry and inside connections: Sony is in this case being manipulated.
Looking at TS with my beLIEvers hat on, He seems to have a "psychic capability in reading future Hoax events" ...and not only those that are Sony related! In my eyes, TS is simply our guide through the Hoax.
If I change hat and put a non-beLIEvers fedora on, then I am left with no rational for TS actions. If TS is on the "dark side" and Michael is gone, why placing the emphasis on a Hoax? What is there to be gained in getting people to investigate everything surrounding Michael, his life, his business...etc? I just cannot see any rational!
With L.O.V.E
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It is great to see some positivity coming out of Bec, Souza, Liwendy, MJonmind...etc
What is important through this test is to keep together.
For those looking for a good book to help you "Think for Yourself", "The Power of Positive Thinking" by Norman Vincent Peale is excellent, it demonstrates the power of Faith in action. "Think and Grow Rich" by Napoleon Hill is even better but it takes a few readings to get it! ;)
Back to our topic, the Sony connection has been discussed numerous time and my opinion remains constant:
In all Logic, Sony is part of the Hoax. I doubt that Sony Plc is involved, Sony is a publicly quoted company and being officially involved with the Hoax would simply be an unacceptable risk; however there is the possibility that at least one influential Sony Executive (most probably from within Sony Entertainment) is in the know and manipulating things from inside with MJ/ MJ team "guidance". Another possibility is that NOBODY at Sony is in the Know and the Estate Executives (McClain or Branca) are stirring matters at will with their experience in the music industry and inside connections: Sony is in this case being manipulated.
Looking at TS with my beLIEvers hat on, He seems to have a "psychic capability in reading future Hoax events" ...and not only those that are Sony related! In my eyes, TS is simply our guide through the Hoax.
If I change hat and put a non-beLIEvers fedora on, then I am left with no rational for TS actions. If TS is on the "dark side" and Michael is gone, why placing the emphasis on a Hoax? What is there to be gained in getting people to investigate everything surrounding Michael, his life, his business...etc? I just cannot see any rational!
With L.O.V.E
(http://www.smileyshut.com/smileys/new/MSN-Emoticons/MSN-Emoticon-applause-004.gif) WELL SAID TheRunningGirl! (http://www.smileyshut.com/smileys/new/MSN-Emoticons/MSN-Emoticon-applause-004.gif)
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I think that the TeSt TS talked about is making us go... crazy/paranoid lol. KEEP THE FAITH !!! Because it's just a matter of time................
[youtube:flsw2ivs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUzYa-Wah6U[/youtube:flsw2ivs]
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I think that the TeSt TS talked about is making us go... crazy/paranoid lol. KEEP THE FAITH !!! Because it's just a matter of time................
[youtube:2smqzp06]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUzYa-Wah6U[/youtube:2smqzp06]
This was my absolute favorite song when I was a kid - I was about 9 when I got Dangerous (it was my very cassette tape!) and this song just amazed me and it still does. Keep the Faith!! :D No matter what.
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Reaching the truth, requires walking the way of doubt. Doubt doesn't mean suspicion, but awareness. Awareness requires always having an open mind to sense the reality unfolding around us. The reality cannot be sensed through unwillingness to give up what we have formerly accepted as real. So, instead of making assumptions on whether MJ owns Sony or not, whether someone wants to stop beLIEvers from beLIEving or not(perhaps brainwash them or any other spooky staff) and whether we want things to be one way or another, it would much be wiser to focus on what's happening around us. Nobody knows what has really happened, that is what we try to figure out. This means that every clue about our subject is valuable. Understanding the close connection between TS and Sony, just takes us one step further, because we know that someone from there cares about the hoax. The next question is "why?". The possibilities are obviously four:
1) He/She is someone respectful to MJ sharing his information.
2) He/She is a crazy fan.
3) He/She works on account of MJ.
4) He/She works on account of Sony.
The possibilities 1,3 and 4 affect the hoax and what we are looking for on its whole. And that is much more than a good reason to search further.
But if you only focus on TS/Sony you cannot have the right answer. You have to take the big picture as a whole. There are so many players in this game. This is an intricate puzzle where all the pieces have to assembled together. Picking one of them and trying to debunk it on the corner of the table will not help and on the contrary it only widens the possibilities to have it wrong. Connecting the dots is the rule in this game.
But we do not disagree... I only say that this is an important dot to unveil. ;)
But (again lol) you are not unveiling anything here (lol :lol: don't try to understand) well here you are focusing on TS being involved or having ties with Sony... okay we know that and you've described some possibilities but you have not connected any dots.
:lol: But again... We don't disagree. I don't claim having connected any dot with another dot. I only say that the fact that TS propably is a Sony insider is just one dot... :)
And with a bit more research new dots will occur and then there will come the connection. ;)
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Isn't it strange (certainly no coincidence) that this "death" which supposedly happened 2009 is exactly 7 years after the 2002 speech where he announced that would own all rights to his music catalogs in 7 years. Maybe he now actually does 8-)
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I always had somewhere in my mind the following bad scenarios:
1. Sony tried to ruin MJ's career in the past to force him into debts and get his catalogue. They didn't manage. They had two possibilities: either try to do this once again... or make a deal with MJ.
2. If they managed to finally destroy MJ (either by murder or by kidnap) - they have again two options:
to sell fake songs and compilations - to ruin him again, force the Estate into debt and get the catalog (but this is not happening, the Estate is earning Huge money)
or
to vindicate MJ, clear his name, design the hoax - to profit from MJ-related products.
However, I think that people involved in clearing Michael's name (family, friends, journalists, "yawning Harvey") seem to do it from other reasons than "make more profit for SONY"... Sony wouldn't be able to pay all of them. :D People like TS, and his very intricate posts, are in my opinion too complicated as existing only for "making more profit for Sony". I bet that if Sony wanted to generate a death hoax (with Michael in fact being "six feet under ground") they would do it in a more simple way: they would show "a double" somewhere in Hawaii - reporting that it was MJ who was seen there (of course TMZ would be the first to let us know :D ) or they would show a man in a mask/hat/whatever walking in the street like MJ. Besides, the family would scream "MURDER" but not in the "Hollywood TV" or on Oprah - but in court! Period! There are too many people involved in "giving clues" (family included) for me to believe that it is only to profit from MJ real death. They are risking much more by generating hoax with Michael being dead than Michael being alive. Imagine a lawyer or a detective searching for proofs of SONY's involvement in MJ's murder - he would have plenty of proof in the internet - the bizarre Murray telenovela or TMZ posts to name the few only.
The only thing what gives all of them strength and motivation - is Michael being ALIVE rather than Michael being dead. If he was dead - the whole Michaelmania would last a few months imho... Because he is really alive - we're all still sitting here right now and staring into the screens.... He wants us to do it.
(sorry for my grammar - I'm not a native English speaker..)
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TS=Michael and Michael certainly that this related to SONY, which has of stranger that TS in his post publishes before everything related to the CD or to the movie This IS It, it is not an information first hand, that another person can have all this information?
Last year to the beginning of all that I to read somewhere that "you" "ally" used by Michael, Omar Arnold and Peter Midani, they were persons associated with the industry of technology and mass media, Joe Jackson BET appeared last year during the delivery of the prizes promoting " Records Ranch ", that dedicaria to stimulating the technology Blu-ray and promotion of new technologies of means.
Meanwhile, as part of its charter sponsorship of the mobile TMZ, Sony Pictures Home Entertainment will promote the April 8 debut of a two-disc unrated DVD and Blu-ray High Def for "Walk Hard: The Dewey Cox Story," a comedy produced by Judd Apatow and starring John C. Reilly.
If Michael this one related to SONY has it something of stranger that also to be related to TMZ?,
TMZ goes mobile with Sony seize sponsor Or that Michael has something that to see with these technologies?
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This one is the link
http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/24/michael-j ... old-drugs/ (http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/24/michael-jackson-alias-doctor-arnold-klein-la-county-coroner-omar-arnold-drugs/)
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I have one question, If in fact Sony murdered Michael (which I do not believe is true), then wouldn't it be obvious that Sony would be the number one suspect. All this talk of murder lately - here and also by the Jackson Family, wouldn't Sony be under investigation by now? We heard AEG mentioned some time ago but nothing concerning Sony? Isn't that strange? I think more and more Michael and Sony are working together with this hoax. After all they are in business together. Business is business. I feel this is another test to see who slides to the dark side and who stays strong. I also think as time goes on people are tired and some are losing hope. As for TS, he has helped us in so many ways. He is a mystery to us therefore he is easy to blame when things don't happen as fast as we would like them to (BAM). It's easy to blame someone else. I think TS is here for us, to guide us. If he is connected to Sony is some way, then why does that have to be a bad thing? The situation with Michael and Sony could be totally different now from what we originally thought. Who knows....Take care. Love to All
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You know what else? All this side show attraction gawking drama is distracting us from what's important, which is MJ and this hoax.
Let's refocus and move forward, together.
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Yes. Enough time wasted on this sibling rivalry and infighting. We need to sound the trumpet and gather formation again and move on. There are real enemies out there.
@im_convinced. That's funny stuff. Ur Anus. I thought that too, but I'm not cheeky enough to type it. And uranus, not trying to be mean, but I am cursed with a lifelong affliction of toilet humour. [hangs head in half hearted remorse]
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Isn't it strange (certainly no coincidence) that this "death" which supposedly happened 2009 is exactly 7 years after the 2002 speech where he announced that would own all rights to his music catalogs in 7 years. Maybe he now actually does 8-)
TS=Michael and Michael certainly that this related to SONY, which has of stranger that TS in his post publishes before everything related to the CD or to the movie This IS It, it is not an information first hand, that another person can have all this information?
Last year to the beginning of all that I to read somewhere that "you" "ally" used by Michael, Omar Arnold and Peter Midani, they were persons associated with the industry of technology and mass media, Joe Jackson BET appeared last year during the delivery of the prizes promoting " Records Ranch ", that dedicaria to stimulating the technology Blu-ray and promotion of new technologies of means.
Meanwhile, as part of its charter sponsorship of the mobile TMZ, Sony Pictures Home Entertainment will promote the April 8 debut of a two-disc unrated DVD and Blu-ray High Def for "Walk Hard: The Dewey Cox Story," a comedy produced by Judd Apatow and starring John C. Reilly.
If Michael this one related to SONY has it something of stranger that also to be related to TMZ?,
TMZ goes mobile with Sony seize sponsor Or that Michael has something that to see with these technologies?
Paul-c, you are SO right. I remember way back things written on Michael's use of alias names for investing in technology and other cutting edge innovative companies. You know how the media was constantly talking about Michael using alias names for obtaining drugs. Maybe the drugs is the lie, but alias names is the truth part, but for another purpose.I believe there is SO much we don't know about Michael's finances. The media have grossly deceived us, but probably to Michael's wish to remain hidden/private/mysterious to add shock value when his long planned hoax climaxes.
I don't know if this article was posted before but it really digs into Michael's ability to handle the whole of this hoax complexity financially and authoritatively.
http://michaeljacksonnotdead.wordpress. ... ficulties/ (http://michaeljacksonnotdead.wordpress.com/2009/08/10/was-michael-jackson-really-facing-financial-difficulties/)
Was Michael Jackson Really Facing Financial Difficulties?
We are told that the KING OF POP was actually penniless by the time of his ‘death’. Is this true or not? We heard stories from his nanny that he had no money left. In fact, she even states that she had to lend him money. We are also told that he was so desperate for money that he signed the contract for the 50 concerts. Then we are told that it was the stress from these concerts that Michael Jackson could not handle, and this led to his ‘death’. Up until now, what you read and heard is what Michael Jackson wants you to believe. The truth is far from it…
Michael Jackson owned the Beatles catalogue. Michael Jackson purchased this in 1984-85, for $40 million. At the time, he was only 26 years old. This meant that he would earn 50% of the royalties from the Beatles songs since he owned the publishing rights. This catalogue contained 4,000 songs.
In 1995, Michael Jackson sold 250 Beatles songs to Sony Corporation for $95 million. He still owns rights to 3,750 songs.
It has been said that Michael Jackson owns 50% share in Sony-ATV Music Publishing Catalogue, which is estimated to be at $US1.5 billion and $US2 billion. Just having ownership of this generated $US13-20 million in profit, on a yearly basis.
Michael Jackson also owns the Mijac Music Publishing catalogue, that is worth at around $US 100 million. Of course the value of this one sky-rocketed with all the sales of his albums following the hoax death.
His estate is worth $500 million.
When Martin Bashir asked Michael Jackson how much he was worth – this was in 2003, Michael Jackson reluctantly said he ws worth beyond 1 billion US dollars.
The Beatles catalogue that Michael Jackson owns is pegged at $US 4-5 billion.
Album sales of Bad (1989, $US 125 million), Dangerous (1992, $US 67 million), HIStory (1996, $US 55 million) and Blood On The Dance Floor (1998, $US 12 million)
I did some further research, and came up with some extremely interesting information that has NOT surfaced anywhere else on the internet – at least not until now.
Not even a few days after the ‘death’ of Michael Jackson, Joe Jackson appeared at the BET Awards. You can read about that in my previous post. During an interview, Joe Jackson plugged ‘Ranch Records’. As another forum reader mentioned, the name is Ranch Records – ie. Neverland Ranch! Extremely interesting…coincidence? I think NOT! Here is what Joe Jackson’s partner Marshall Thompson had to say about Ranch Records: “It’s driven by Blu-ray technology, and that’s his next step.” HIS next step? Whose next step? Joe Jackson was never an investor…he did create the Jackson 5 partially, but thats about it. So WHOSE next step is it? Sounds like a huge slip of tongue by Marshall Thompson.
Initially, I did not think much of Ranch Records or the slip-of-tongue by Marshall Thompson. Not until I did some research on the aliases that Michael Jackson supposedly used to obtain drugs and visit doctors. Remember, you are reading this here first.
Paul Farance is the alias Michael Jackson used. In reality, the name refers to Paul France – CEO of Fantastic One. Fantastic One is a media company that uses new technologies. Prior to this, Paul France launched Asia Business News in 1993, which eventually merged with CNBC to create CNBC Asia in 1998. In Paul France’s own words: “”I have been very closely associated with Internet developments and have felt that the true value of new media has been held back by bandwidth restraints.Now that broadband is coming on stream I am genuinely excited about the potential for this revolution.Through its parent companies,FantasticOne has the technology and the experience in content delivery to truly make this revolution of Digital Broadband Multimedia come about.”
Omar Arnold is another alias Michael Jackson used. Who is Omar Arnold? In reality, he is the CEO and owner of Quantum Sales & Technology Incorporated. Its even located in California – very convenient. Its a company that deals with Audio Systems. They even support organizations that promote music programs in schools across the USA.
Jimmy Nicholas was another one of Michael Jackson’s alias. Jimmy Nicholas is actually the vice president of business development for MokaFive, a technology based organization. He has a track record of working win operations and finance, and has background in developing partnerships for venture software companies. Prior to this, he worked with TriplePoint Capital, where he was responsible for venture transactions with parters of the firm. Along with a lot of other experience in venture firms, he was also the CEO of Oxford Media Corporation – which was dedicated for providing digital video technology.
In 2000, Media reports indicate that Michael Jackson invested several million dollars in HollywoodTicket.com, which was a firm that wanted to maximize internet technology. Unfortunately, this start-up firm that did not perform so well initially and there are reports that it changed its company direction.
Brian Singleton, Michael Jackson’s alias is actually the Chief Creative Producer and Officer of Attention Span Media. This company is also conveniently located in Los Angeles, and Brian has worked with the entertainment industry via production of various sitcoms, was a News Producer of KHIZ TV and now is focusing upon New Media.
Peter Midani was the alias Michael Jackson used – but actually referred to Peter Madonia. Since 2006, he has been the Chief Operating Officer of the Rockefeller Foundation, and oversees human and financial resources, information technology, facilities and such. Prior to this, he was the Chief of Staff to New York City Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg – who paid a tribute to Michael Jackson. Interestingly, Bloomberg announced on July 7th 2009 that he wanted to help the slumped media industry, by creating 8,000 jobs. How? By creating partnerships between traditional and digital media, and attracting foreign investments by media companies. They would also create fellowships for training with venture firms. Not only this, but a World Congress of Children was hosted at Neverland in April 1995, where in addition to other supporters, Michael Jackson’s Heal The World Foundation, the Rockefeller Foundation was a sponsor.
The other aliases were names of friends, his children, other celebrities, or his staff.
As you can see, there is the very strong possibility that the aliases that Michael Jackson used were those of people that he knew. From the list above, they all happened to be leading individuals associated with media and technology industries. Prior evidence indicates that Michael Jackson was an investor of start-up companies associated with technology. Not only that, but surprisingly Ranch Records is also focusing on supporting new media technologies. Contrary to the impression that has been portrayed of Michael Jackson being a lavish spender and not familiar with finances, I strongly believe that he is a very apt business minded individual. It has even been reported that part of his intention to wed Lisa Marie was to purchase rights over Elvis Presley’s catalogue. Moreover, Michael Jackson has even stated in his interviews that Salvation Army is an excellent store and often had nice merchandise. This was said in the 1980′s, when Michael Jackson was already a millionaire. Moreover, despite supposedly having problems with his father, he lived at home with his parents even in his mid-twenties. We are talking about a millionaire here, who was already internationally recognized. He did not go around blowing money like the pop stars today. Rather, he lived very cautiously. He did become a big spender in the 1990′s, but that is from our perspective, and not that of a man worth beyond 1 billion dollars.
So why the facade of showing a poor Michael Jackson to the world? His songs lyrics speak louder then anything else about this. All the allegations, court cases, being sued, having to settle cases out of court, shutting the mouths of people, etc. cost him a lot. Naturally, he was worried about what would become of his finances. His reaction was to liquidate most of his funds and assets, write them off as expenses and move them into foreign bank accounts and investments. There are even reports that he wanted to open resorts in Dubai as well as Asia, and perhaps these even materialized. Some of his funds were used to purchase stocks and invest into media technology based venture firms, as you can see from above, but obviously not under his real name. Perhaps if the company structure and share holders were ever available to the general public, we could possibly locate the alias that Michael Jackson used to invest. Moreover, Michael Jackson even fired his close business managers and advisors and hired Dr. Tohme in 2005. This is when reports about Michael Jackson’s financial crisis began to emerge, as well as reports of him being ill. Odd right?
The King of Pop was not facing financial distress, that was an image for us to believe in. At the moment, he continues to receive royalties from the enormous sales of his albums, enjoy the funds that he liquidated and sent away to offshore accounts, as well as continuing to invest into venture firms based on technology and media. All this while not having to pay a single dime to any of his on-going court cases, loans, other ‘debt’ that he had accrued. In one of his interviews, Michael Jackson mentioned that he is not stupid, and that stupid people don’t get this far – which is very true indeed. To pull of this hoax and having planned all the minute details needs a brilliant mind while having calculated all the gains requires a brilliant mind – that of Michael Jackson.
I was watching a docu tonight a bit with my hubby, on Donald Trump. I know Michael spent a fair bit of time with Donald Trump, and was staying at his condo (I think) and Trump had only good things to say about Michael. This docu showed Trumps saavy with investing, hard work and most of all, it said he said his crowning achievement was his children. You could see how much he loved his kids and trained them as a wise parent, similar to Michael. I think Trump respected Michael also from one wise investor to another. And Trump's empire apparantly is VAST!!! I think we might all fall off of our chairs if we knew our Michael's full empire!!!
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Wow, MJonmind. I always thought the alias's were something more than "prescription" names.
I never thought there was any way that Michael was ever in financial trouble, it just doesn't make sense. And I think this is only the tip of the iceberg, he probably has so much more than we may ever know. I'm still trying to grasp this all...I've never heard of any of those companies, they could be under the radar type companies that are ready to take the industry by storm and it wouldn't surprise me if they did, if Michael is behind the scenes.
An empire is right! But if Michael is heading everything, it's an empire of love.
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@mjonmind: thanks for posting this info. I was just looking for it too.
and also this is an interesting read. (keep in mind that Bonnie Cox wrote this when she thought Michael had been murdered. i think she is beginning to believe that he is alive.)
In any case, the Sony connection is investigated a number of times on her blog. this is one of the entries:
Michael’s Future – The Sony/AEG Connection
http://michaelsguardian.blogspot.com/20 ... ction.html (http://michaelsguardian.blogspot.com/2010/06/michaels-future-sonyaeg-connection.html)
June 3, 2010 – Michael’s Future – The Sony/AEG Connection
For the last week, I have gone back and forth over the involvement of AEG / Anschutz and the Colony Capital clan. Why? Because of the way Anschutz seems to do things in regard to certain investments.
Trying to tie everyone in and actually having any of it stick could prove fatal to the whole attempt at securing justice. Working out from Michael, which was my original intent, we still have Doctor Murray, This is It, John Branca as Executor of his will (fraudulently, by the evidence in place), John Branca as an executive producer in "This is It", John Branca as a board member and 5% share owner of the Sony/ATV catalog. In continuation we have John Branca as a previously fired attorney for Michael Jackson, John Branca as a subject of investigation for conspiracy and embezzlement during Michael’s 2005 child molestation charge and John Branca as a friend of Tommy Mottola.
John Branca has had many successes in his own right. To be fair, he helped Michael secure the ATV catalog back in 1986 when Michael was crawling up on twenty eight years old. John Branca has successfully represented other clients in the entertainment industry, including Sony. But there are plenty of "upstanding" business men behind bars for motive of a lot less money.
The judge in California and the investigators at the LAPD are doing a horrendous job in this investigation. Branca should not be kept in place as executor of Michael Jackson’s estate. He has a more clear motive to murder Michael Jackson than Dr. Murray ! Why isn’t this guy being investigated ?
Despite that a previous judge, according to this video declaring the will a hoax according to one of the partners at MJhoax.blogspot.com, the judge presiding over the case ruled that John Branca could remain executor of the will. The judge further granted Branca permission for him and his partners in this permission to earn 10% of all increases in said estate, on top of what they charge for those services, and the ability to greenlight any project without permission from beneficiaries of that estate, ie, Katherine Jackson (who was named a co-executor in the will itself, but who has not been given ANY information as to the deals that have been secured lately).
Branca is profiting on both sides of the fence. A judge okays this. But then judges in California do the same thing. Just ask Richard Fine, if they will let into solitary confinement to talk to him. He’s being held because of the 400 Judges in California he was preparing to expose for that very practice. The latest news article on the increase in Sony profits . . . because of Michael Jackson and "his is It" deals. The estate increases, Branca’s income increases, but not those of the beneficiaries ! Michael’s whole legacy is being sold to Sony.
Remember all the declarations on the news regarding the investigation right after Michael’s death and before Murray was actually charged? Yes! Legal pundits and talking heads declaring the fall of those (plural) behind Michael’s homicide. Where are they now ? All are silent !
:arrow: :arrow: :arrow: Branca, Sony and the Music publishing catalogs are only part of the picture. Michael, his assets and his name had a controlling interest in a lot of wealth. L.A. county doesn’t like Michael Jackson even though the taxes coming from his enterprises kept them all in jobs. Michael won an unwinable court case against the charges the D.A. made against him in 1993 and in 2005. It was an embarrassment. Considering the record of that county and the judges in that state, did Michael have a fighting chance to have this made right? No!
How did Branca even get involved in « This is It » as an executive producer ? Who opened that door? Was it Randy Phillips?
Branca produced a bogus, forged will. That got him back into the control room where Michael’s assets were concerned. Michael fired him in February of 2003. It was EVIDENCE in the 2005 investigation that Branca had an "improper relationship" with Sony while representing Michael. Why wasn’t Branca sued after that Michael’s trial was over? Who dropped that ball? Some suggest that Michael was the one that needed to recover his health and sanity after that trial. There was no way he could sit through another court case right after that one.
With whom in Sony is Colony Capital friends?
If we go back to the chart from this blog update we have the picture of the chart, but we still do not have a connector between Sony and AEG. Who gave Branca the job as Producer of "This is It"? How did Branca get in that door ?
We have connected Michael’s Doctor Murray to manager Tohme to Tom Barrack and Colony Capital, to Anschutz and AEG and Randy Phillips who runs AEG Live. AEG Live was promoting "This is It" the concerts. Kenny Ortega directed that and spliced the rehearsal footage together to create the movie.
Branca was a loose end out there in Never-Neverland (Captian Hook !) until he produced the 2002 will that he was supposed to turn over to Michael when Michael demanded it in 2003 after firing him. He was still friends with Mottola and still representing Sony on deals. Branca is the connector with everything Sony in regard to Michael Jackson. Frank DiLeo, Branca, Mottola, McClain, the Sony/ATV and MiJack Catalogs, and the forged 2002 all have Branca relationships. So how did Branca get in the door at AEG and with Anschutz ?
Tom Barrack of Colony Capital, owner of the community Dr. Murray’s home sits, half owner of Neverland Ranch/Sycamore Valley Ranch Co. LLC and financial savior to Michael said this about Michael. :
Tom Barrack said "You are talking about a guy who could make $500 million a year if he puts his mind to it," reference
His friend in business, the ever-elusive Phillip Anschutz, owner of (amongst other entities) AEG and AEG Live, Regal Cinemas, several newspapers and more, had to be convinced by Randy Phillips and Dr. Tohme to invest in Michael. You can read more about Anschutz here. Very interesting fellow. He and Michael Jackson shared the same passion and views on family centered entertainment, family core and faith.
Sony and AEG got together, seemingly, for “This is It”. John Branca would have had to have a controlling position within “This is It” to get it sold to “Sony” for $60 million, but wait . . . John had already produced the bogus will by then and was directing Michael’s estate. As double agent for the Jackson Estate and Sony infiltrator, he could have granted, under Michael’s business entity, sale of AEG’s “This is It” to Sony. No problem. But who made him producer of “This is It”? Randy Phillips? Who agreed to this? Did Anschutz give the okay for Branca and McClain to be inserted as executive producers just to get “This is It” sold? It could have been a bidding war. It was Michael Jackson. Any company could have bid for it. Why Sony and why John Branca as executive producer?
Does Anschutz leave his Christianity at the doors to the boardroom? Both Tom Barrack and later Anschutz had to be convinced to help Michael Jackson. Both men agreed to “Help” Michael after meeting him. Why would either one of them, as self-made men, both billionaires with international corporations, want to get involved in a liability like that? Michael was supposedly hundreds of millions in debt. How and why would they take on something like that when there were much easier and less complicated ways to generate wealth with a lot less liability? Neither of these men seem the type to do business with the likes of Branca.
So who is the connector between Branca and AEG?
Maybe it is this?
MICHAEL JACKSON'S ADVENTURES IN THE ARABIAN MAGIC KINGDOM
Michael and Prince Waleed had partnered back in 1997. They formed Kingdom Entertainment with Michael and Prince Waleed sharing a 50-50 ownership. There was a deal made back then, when Michael was still on good terms with Sony, and in this deal, Michael would serve as producer for a new label called MJJ.
The Alwaleed-Jackson company also acquired 55% ownership of Landmark Entertainment Group, through which they planned the creation of a “Neverland” theme park. Here is what Prince Waleed had to say about Michael back then:
Jackson and Alwaleed became pals in 1994, when a mutual friend from Alwaleed's college days in California arranged a lunch meeting aboard the prince's yacht in Cannes. They hit it off, and Alwaleed became very protective of Jackson, whom he saw as a creative genius with lousy business instincts and bad p.r.
"I cannot base my relationship on innuendo," says Alwaleed. "I believe that all the fuss around him has no basis. I believe that he is still an underdeveloped asset. There is no other artist who can go to some countries and have the whole place come to a standstill."
Prince AL Waleed Bin Talal Al Saud became involved in Fairmont hotels and formed a partnership in 2006 with COLONY CAPITOL. Reference
That still does not link him to Sony, nor does it link Branca to AEG and Anschutz. At least not on the surface.
From Prince Waleed’s Facebook page: Prince Waleed
“Prince Al-Waleed began his business career in 1979 upon graduation from Menlo College. Funded by a $30,000 loan from his father and a $300,000 mortgage on his house, he initially brokered deals with foreign firms wishing to do business in Saudi Arabia.[citations needed] This was followed by land deals in the 1980s, along with major investments in the Saudi banking industry, which proved to be undervalued at the time.[citation needed]
The Prince's activities as an investor came to prominence when he bought a substantial tranche of shares in Citicorp in the 1990s when that firm was in difficulties. With an initial investment of $550 million to bail out Citibank caused by underpreforming American real estate loan and Latin American businesses, his holdings in Citigroup now comprises half of his wealth worth US$10 billion.[1] He has also made large investments in AOL, Apple Inc., Worldcom, Motorola, News Corporation Ltd and other technology and media companies.[citation needed]
His real estate holdings have included large stakes in the Four Seasons hotel chain and the Plaza Hotel in New York. He sold half of his shares in the latter in August 2004. He has made investments in London's Savoy Hotel and Monaco's Monte Carlo Grand Hotel. He currently holds a 17% stake in Euro Disney SCA, the organization which manages and maintains the Disneyland Resort Paris in Marne-la-Vallee, France.[2][not specific enough to verify]
In January 2005 Prince Al-Waleed purchased the Savoy Hotel in London for an estimated GBP £250 million, to be managed by Fairmont Hotels, in which Prince Al-Waleed owns an estimated 16% stake. In January 2006, in partnership with the U.S. real estate firm Colony Capital, Kingdom Holdings acquired Toronto, CA-based Fairmont Hotels for an estimated $3.9 billion.
As of 2007, he was believed to be in talks with Robert Earl, founder of Planet Hollywood, about taking a controlling stake in the English Premier League's Everton F.C”
It is still unexplained how Branca got into executive producer of “This is It”. My only guess is that this was done AFTER Branca sold the rights of the movie to Sony and inserted himself and McClain after the fact, which could have been done. But this does not seal the deal of any conspiracy between the Sony camp and the AEG camp. Branca is still the center of investigation. This is who we need to send the authorities to.
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My comment on "why would anybody do this or that or not do this or that?" is:
it is helpful to take off our hoax sunglasses and take a look around us in real life and then ask the same question again.
We will be finding our jaw on the floor as to the variety and perceived "craziness" of motivations for people of doing this or that or doing nothing at all.
Coming back to hoaxland again:
Reasons for ANYTHING one does or doesn't do can be (list not being exhaustive):
- boredom
- fun
- seeking students
- seeking followers
- seeking attention
- seeking to be loved
- having a high bloodpressure
- having had a terrible night with their partner
- the girl you want doesn't want you
- that man is married...
- collecting sheep, stamps, buttons ...
- a mission
- a vision
- a hobby
- a profession
- being paid for it
- not being paid for it
- management by chopper
(dwell above all, come down from time to time, raise clouds of dust and take off again)
- management by babysitter
(take care only of those who shout loudest)
- management by windfall
(mature decisions drop by themselves)
- management by hourglass
(let all run through and hope for a turn)
- management by marguerite
(should I, should I not)
- management by partisan
(disinform even your own staff so your goals are not recognizable)
- management by hippo
(open your mouth really wide and then go into hiding again)
- management by surprise
(just do it and get amazed by its outcome)
- management by ping-pong
(delegate a subject back and forth until it is not relevant anymore)
- management by Robinson
(everyone waiting for Friday)
....
(all similarities with living or dead personalities are pure fiction)
We don't even know ourselves - how would we dare knowing another person and why they are doing or not doing and what their thoughts are.
Something we put into hoax context might not have that in real life...
L.O.V.E. to all.
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I believe in TS... I don't understand why we keep pointing our attacks and directing all our frustrations towards him. He doesn't oblige us to believe him, it is our personal choice to do us, based on our will, perception and power of understanding his logic of arguments. Are we trying to convince the others who do believe that he is a fraud? If he is truly misleading us - although I really never found any solid arguments or motives to support this theory, as much as I tried - then it is our misjudgement and our personal failure in reason.. which cannot be corrected because it is integrated in our being.
Unfortunately we are still divided in the ones who believe, the ones who are confused and the ones who totally dismiss TS. But the main purpose of this forum is not TS, it is MICHAEL. Why do we keep attacking ourselves over this issue? Everyone has the right to believe what they consider to be true and real. We should stop trying to persuade the others who don't think alike to do so, this is still manipulation and pushing an ideology, from both sides. We should stick together in achieving our purpose, which is supporting Michael and descovering his message, while filtering the arguments through the personal rational sieve. If one doesn't think TS is legit then fine, there are plenty of arguments beyond TS to support the rationale of our quest, which should remain the main focus of this army. The ones who believe in TS can claim they have some extra help in understanding the hoax and its timing, without pushing their arguments to the others... remember Wilde's wise words: "Nothing that is worth knowing can be taught".
So let us bring back the LOVE and harmony to this army and use the given arguments wisely, to a better purpose than that of dissension.
LOVE,
Andy
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I think this has raised a very interesting debate. My thoughts are that Uranus has stated a strong connection between Sony and TS which for me doesn't have to be a bad thing. We ruled out the murder theory a very long time ago, it would not make any sense as his family would have to be in on it and there is simply no way that that could be true. So the only conclusion that makes any sense is that Sony is working with Michael and are not his 'enemy'. I see this as very much a game of chess and I can imagine Michael to be a very good player, he called Tommy Mattola a devil and was out to eliminate him. I may be wrong here but I'm sure I read somewhere that Mattola carried on working for Sony but under a different name. Maybe Michael knocked him out of the control seat and took his place still allowing Mattola a position but under his conditions (checkmate). It has been said before that this is more of a takeover than a comeback and maybe this started much longer ago than we think. I think Michael was and is far more powerful than even any of us now think. It would make sense that he is on a financial par with the richest people in the world and it would also make sense that this was not public knowledge, in fact the opposite was reported.
In conclusion I think that Sony, TS etc are all in Michaels camp, working together in this great adventure.
Things are getting very interesting recently!!!
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This is very interesting.... (found it on michael'sguardian blog)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_cudiB-AbcIs/TAlIZAtVGuI/AAAAAAAAAaI/tYVlkdjNYtM/s1600/MJ+2010+chart+4.jpg)
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I hate it when everyone is in disagreements, it turns my stomach. I don't think we're ever going convince each other that TS is real or fake. It's just one of those "Lets agree to disagree" moments. I feel entirely sorry for Uranus. Whether she made the account solely for the purpose of creating this thread or not ... we shouldn't be questioning her. Its hard to voice your opinion about something controversial, and open up only to be put down. (I would know :roll: )
Anyway TS has connections with Sony. I don't see anything wrong with that. That makes it that much more real in my eyes. I'm not into the whole TS thing, but the evidence being presented right in front of me ... I'm leaning more toward him being an insider.
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This is very interesting.... (found it on michael'sguardian blog)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_cudiB-AbcIs/TAlIZAtVGuI/AAAAAAAAAaI/tYVlkdjNYtM/s1600/MJ+2010+chart+4.jpg)
A picture is worth a thousand words. This is the diagram referenced in the article about Sony that I posted for you from michaelsguardianblog. Both should be comprehended together.
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Colony capital<--->Murray= Home???
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Anyway TS has connections with Sony. I don't see anything wrong with that. That makes it that much more real in my eyes.
Agree. Even if TS is someone from Sony, it means that Michael sent him to help us. Why do you think that Sony suddenly decided to help us? You think that Sony is trying to sell the products, right? They're doing this for profit? I explained it many times before. Why would Sony bother for a profit? Weren't you going to buy the products related to Michael even if you thought that he was gone? Why would Sony spend so much time and millions to companies like Coca Cola, McDonalds, film companies etc? Just to make a couple of believers to buy MJ albums? Your theory does NOT make ANY sense at all.
And why are you despising the information TS has given to us? How can you say that TS gave information only related to Sony and TMZ? Pls go and read the updates once more! Do you forget how much he taught us about illuminati and NWO? Why would Sony bother to tell all these things about NWO and illuminati? Why would they bother to show us more about the conspiracy theories? Do you forget how TS explained the 1998 code and all other numerology? Do you forget how he explained why the family behaved like that after the so called death and so many things? Was TS promoting Sony when he was writing about these too? Was TS promoting my post which was about "MAKING THE CHANGE" and for a couple of days when he redirected to CHARITIES section of the forum??? If you're defending a theory, you need to show us facts which proves Sony murdered Michael and/or Sony is trying to make a profit by faking us with TS. The "possible" relation with TS and Sony does NOT prove anything! I'm pissed because you guys lost your patience and started to forget the information we got and with your arrogance, you're trying to blame TS for faking us or whatsoever.
I do NOT believe that ANYONE on this forum only waited for TS to spoonfeed us. We were already investigating and we're still investigating. If this forum was only about TS, there would be only one section and that would be "TIAI". So pls pass this "you're sheeps and following TS and blindly believing in TS" crap! Because we are not! We're thinking about every possibility and come to a conclusion which is the MOST and actually the ONLY rational one. And that is THE KING IS ALIVE and THIS IS HIS PLAN OF VICTORY!!!
If you still think that MJ was murdered, pls go back to the previous page and answer the questions I asked. Do not come to me with unrelated questions and crap theories.
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This is very interesting.... (found it on michael'sguardian blog)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_cudiB-AbcIs/TAlIZAtVGuI/AAAAAAAAAaI/tYVlkdjNYtM/s1600/MJ+2010+chart+4.jpg)
A picture is worth a thousand words. This is the diagram referenced in the article about Sony that I posted for you from michaelsguardianblog. Both should be comprehended together.
Hmm I don't know what to make of it really. What exactly does this mean? Do we know who drew this scheme?
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Anyway TS has connections with Sony. I don't see anything wrong with that. That makes it that much more real in my eyes.
Agree. Even if TS is someone from Sony, it means that Michael sent him to help us. Why do you think that Sony suddenly decided to help us? You think that Sony is trying to sell the products, right? They're doing this for profit? I explained it many times before. Why would Sony bother for a profit? Weren't you going to buy the products related to Michael even if you thought that he was gone? Why would Sony spend so much time and millions to companies like Coca Cola, McDonalds, film companies etc? Just to make a couple of believers to buy MJ albums? Your theory does NOT make ANY sense at all.
And why are you despising the information TS has given to us? How can you say that TS gave information only related to Sony and TMZ? Pls go and read the updates once more! Do you forget how much he taught us about illuminati and NWO? Why would Sony bother to tell all these things about NWO and illuminati? Why would they bother to show us more about the conspiracy theories? Do you forget how TS explained the 1998 code and all other numerology? Do you forget how he explained why the family behaved like that after the so called death and so many things? Was TS promoting Sony when he was writing about these too? Was TS promoting my post which was about "MAKING THE CHANGE" and for a couple of days when he redirected to CHARITIES section of the forum??? If you're defending a theory, you need to show us facts which proves Sony murdered Michael and/or Sony is trying to make a profit by faking us with TS. The "possible" relation with TS and Sony does NOT prove anything! I'm pissed because you guys lost your patience and started to forget the information we got and with your arrogance, you're trying to blame TS for faking us or whatsoever.
I do NOT believe that ANYONE on this forum only waited for TS to spoonfeed us. We were already investigating and we're still investigating. If this forum was only about TS, there would be only one section and that would be "TIAI". So pls pass this "you're sheeps and following TS and blindly believing in TS" crap! Because we are not! We're thinking about every possibility and come to a conclusion which is the MOST and actually the ONLY rational one. And that is THE KING IS ALIVE and THIS IS HIS PLAN OF VICTORY!!!
If you still think that MJ was murdered, pls go back to the previous page and answer the questions I asked. Do not come to me with unrelated questions and crap theories.
I agree 1000%, you have spelled it out perfectly PureLove. :D
It's all for L.O.V.E
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I agree 1000%, you have spelled it out perfectly PureLove. :D
It's all for L.O.V.E
Thank you. :) I want to make a quote from one of MJ's song "We're Almost There".
"No matter how hard the task may seem, don't give up our plans, don't give up our dreams!"
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Anyway TS has connections with Sony. I don't see anything wrong with that. That makes it that much more real in my eyes.
Agree. Even if TS is someone from Sony, it means that Michael sent him to help us. Why do you think that Sony suddenly decided to help us? You think that Sony is trying to sell the products, right? They're doing this for profit? I explained it many times before. Why would Sony bother for a profit? Weren't you going to buy the products related to Michael even if you thought that he was gone? Why would Sony spend so much time and millions to companies like Coca Cola, McDonalds, film companies etc? Just to make a couple of believers to buy MJ albums? Your theory does NOT make ANY sense at all.
And why are you despising the information TS has given to us? How can you say that TS gave information only related to Sony and TMZ? Pls go and read the updates once more! Do you forget how much he taught us about illuminati and NWO? Why would Sony bother to tell all these things about NWO and illuminati? Why would they bother to show us more about the conspiracy theories? Do you forget how TS explained the 1998 code and all other numerology? Do you forget how he explained why the family behaved like that after the so called death and so many things? Was TS promoting Sony when he was writing about these too? Was TS promoting my post which was about "MAKING THE CHANGE" and for a couple of days when he redirected to CHARITIES section of the forum??? If you're defending a theory, you need to show us facts which proves Sony murdered Michael and/or Sony is trying to make a profit by faking us with TS. The "possible" relation with TS and Sony does NOT prove anything! I'm pissed because you guys lost your patience and started to forget the information we got and with your arrogance, you're trying to blame TS for faking us or whatsoever.
I do NOT believe that ANYONE on this forum only waited for TS to spoonfeed us. We were already investigating and we're still investigating. If this forum was only about TS, there would be only one section and that would be "TIAI". So pls pass this "you're sheeps and following TS and blindly believing in TS" crap! Because we are not! We're thinking about every possibility and come to a conclusion which is the MOST and actually the ONLY rational one. And that is THE KING IS ALIVE and THIS IS HIS PLAN OF VICTORY!!!
If you still think that MJ was murdered, pls go back to the previous page and answer the questions I asked. Do not come to me with unrelated questions and crap theories.
Let's clear this out. Nobody can claim that has proof for something, because proof is something solid and something that we know as a fact. We have been until now only able to find clues, analyze them and make some connections. And this is the proccess of connecting the dots. There are hundrends of thousands of facts that we do not know. Pretending to be sure about what is real and what is not, is only an illusion. And arrogance is to be absolute, not to question.
Talking about absolute claims... TS's connection to Sony doesn't mean that MJ sent him/her. It means that either MJ sent him or he's working for others(or him/herself). And yes, Sony's profit could be a propablity. MJ has been generating for them billions of dollars. Their profit would not come from us, hoax believers, buying some CD's. But, perhaps from people hearing the rumours about a great artist who hoaxed his death. This keeps MJ's fame star shining not only for people who already know him, but for young people and non-fans as well. Especially when such rumours come out of Riley's and Akon's mouth. And gaining several million dollars from new MJ releases makes a lot of sense.
As far as TS is concerned, this article did not say that TS posted only about TMZ and Sony. The only claim here is how could someone have the information that TS had. And the coincidencies just lead to a statistically correct conclusion. That TS is propably closely connected to Sony. As for how he/she found all the other things(numerology etc), nobody knows, except for those who know TS personally. And because nobody knows TS personally from around here, this means that we do not know his/her goals. Whether he/she is a crazed fan or somebody respectful to MJ sharing his/her information with us or someone sent by MJ or a Sony accolyte nobody knows for sure. Crafting numerology and combining it with conspiracy theories is not as difficult as it seems. So, we cannot be sure 100% about what TS "taught us". And his/her redirects maybe promoting Sony maybe not. Perhaps, he/she redirects sometimes to buy time for him/herself(like the charities redirects or others), and perhaps to show MJ's message. Maybe he/she redirects what is convenient to him/her like PureLove's post claiming that exposing TS's identity would be dangerous to MJ(note that this article has strongly supported that it couldn't be dangerous for Michael if we learned TS's identity) and maybe he/she redirects to what are his/her intentions. Nobody knows. Except for those who believe every TS redirect as a clue. I am sorry, but, believing something as a clue just because TS wrote it, then this is following him/her as a sheep.
Nobody claimed that people follow TS as sheep. Nobody claimed Sony killed MJ. Nobody is blaming TS. At least not in this article.
This article's purpose is only to provide people with the results of a research done, some logical statements and suggest caution, awareness and thinking for ourselves. Nothing more, nothing less.
What people believe is their own choice and their right to exress their views must be respected from everyone.
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Oh my! We are also driven by the heart, by gut feelings and emotions, we are not robots! :D
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Let's clear this out. Nobody can claim that has proof for something, because proof is something solid and something that we know as a fact. We have been until now only able to find clues, analyze them and make some connections. And this is the proccess of connecting the dots. There are hundrends of thousands of facts that we do not know. Pretending to be sure about what is real and what is not, is only an illusion. And arrogance is to be absolute, not to question.
Talking about absolute claims... TS's connection to Sony doesn't mean that MJ sent him/her. It means that either MJ sent him or he's working for others(or him/herself). And yes, Sony's profit could be a propablity. MJ has been generating for them billions of dollars. Their profit would not come from us, hoax believers, buying some CD's. But, perhaps from people hearing the rumours about a great artist who hoaxed his death. This keeps MJ's fame star shining not only for people who already know him, but for young people and non-fans as well. Especially when such rumours come out of Riley's and Akon's mouth. And gaining several million dollars from new MJ releases makes a lot of sense.
As far as TS is concerned, this article did not say that TS posted only about TMZ and Sony. The only claim here is how could someone have the information that TS had. And the coincidencies just lead to a statistically correct conclusion. That TS is propably closely connected to Sony. As for how he/she found all the other things(numerology etc), nobody knows, except for those who know TS personally. And because nobody knows TS personally from around here, this means that we do not know his/her goals. Whether he/she is a crazed fan or somebody respectful to MJ sharing his/her information with us or someone sent by MJ or a Sony accolyte nobody knows for sure. Crafting numerology and combining it with conspiracy theories is not as difficult as it seems. So, we cannot be sure 100% about what TS "taught us". And his/her redirects maybe promoting Sony maybe not. Perhaps, he/she redirects sometimes to buy time for him/herself(like the charities redirects or others), and perhaps to show MJ's message. Maybe he/she redirects what is convenient to him/her like PureLove's post claiming that exposing TS's identity would be dangerous to MJ(note that this article has strongly supported that it couldn't be dangerous for Michael if we learned TS's identity) and maybe he/she redirects to what are his/her intentions. Nobody knows. Except for those who believe every TS redirect as a clue. I am sorry, but, believing something as a clue just because TS wrote it, then this is following him/her as a sheep.
Nobody claimed that people follow TS as sheep. Nobody claimed Sony killed MJ. Nobody is blaming TS. At least not in this article.
This article's purpose is only to provide people with the results of a research done, some logical statements and suggest caution, awareness and thinking for ourselves. Nothing more, nothing less.
What people believe is their own choice and their right to exress their views must be respected from everyone.
Thank you for your well balanced thoughts Uranus. Your post shows you have looked at the situation from both perspectives.
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Truth with a capital T Uranus, nice balanced view .......
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"This is Michaels plan for Victory." Purelove i am really likin this quote. Thats awesome and makes so much sense. Blessings to you
a Oklahoma fan!
Anyway TS has connections with Sony. I don't see anything wrong with that. That makes it that much more real in my eyes.
Agree. Even if TS is someone from Sony, it means that Michael sent him to help us. Why do you think that Sony suddenly decided to help us? You think that Sony is trying to sell the products, right? They're doing this for profit? I explained it many times before. Why would Sony bother for a profit? Weren't you going to buy the products related to Michael even if you thought that he was gone? Why would Sony spend so much time and millions to companies like Coca Cola, McDonalds, film companies etc? Just to make a couple of believers to buy MJ albums? Your theory does NOT make ANY sense at all.
And why are you despising the information TS has given to us? How can you say that TS gave information only related to Sony and TMZ? Pls go and read the updates once more! Do you forget how much he taught us about illuminati and NWO? Why would Sony bother to tell all these things about NWO and illuminati? Why would they bother to show us more about the conspiracy theories? Do you forget how TS explained the 1998 code and all other numerology? Do you forget how he explained why the family behaved like that after the so called death and so many things? Was TS promoting Sony when he was writing about these too? Was TS promoting my post which was about "MAKING THE CHANGE" and for a couple of days when he redirected to CHARITIES section of the forum??? If you're defending a theory, you need to show us facts which proves Sony murdered Michael and/or Sony is trying to make a profit by faking us with TS. The "possible" relation with TS and Sony does NOT prove anything! I'm pissed because you guys lost your patience and started to forget the information we got and with your arrogance, you're trying to blame TS for faking us or whatsoever.
I do NOT believe that ANYONE on this forum only waited for TS to spoonfeed us. We were already investigating and we're still investigating. If this forum was only about TS, there would be only one section and that would be "TIAI". So pls pass this "you're sheeps and following TS and blindly believing in TS" crap! Because we are not! We're thinking about every possibility and come to a conclusion which is the MOST and actually the ONLY rational one. And that is THE KING IS ALIVE and THIS IS HIS PLAN OF VICTORY!!!
If you still think that MJ was murdered, pls go back to the previous page and answer the questions I asked. Do not come to me with unrelated questions and crap theories.
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I really like the fact that many people care for the sake of the conversation and I am glad to have read some really interesting information and thoughts.
By the way, Uranus is a masculin name, which means that I am a "he" and not a "she", as you said in your post backstager. :lol:
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Let's clear this out. Nobody can claim that has proof for something, because proof is something solid and something that we know as a fact. We have been until now only able to find clues, analyze them and make some connections. And this is the proccess of connecting the dots. There are hundrends of thousands of facts that we do not know. Pretending to be sure about what is real and what is not, is only an illusion. And arrogance is to be absolute, not to question.
Talking about absolute claims... TS's connection to Sony doesn't mean that MJ sent him/her. It means that either MJ sent him or he's working for others(or him/herself). And yes, Sony's profit could be a propablity. MJ has been generating for them billions of dollars. Their profit would not come from us, hoax believers, buying some CD's. But, perhaps from people hearing the rumours about a great artist who hoaxed his death. This keeps MJ's fame star shining not only for people who already know him, but for young people and non-fans as well. Especially when such rumours come out of Riley's and Akon's mouth. And gaining several million dollars from new MJ releases makes a lot of sense.
As far as TS is concerned, this article did not say that TS posted only about TMZ and Sony. The only claim here is how could someone have the information that TS had. And the coincidencies just lead to a statistically correct conclusion. That TS is propably closely connected to Sony. As for how he/she found all the other things(numerology etc), nobody knows, except for those who know TS personally. And because nobody knows TS personally from around here, this means that we do not know his/her goals. Whether he/she is a crazed fan or somebody respectful to MJ sharing his/her information with us or someone sent by MJ or a Sony accolyte nobody knows for sure. Crafting numerology and combining it with conspiracy theories is not as difficult as it seems. So, we cannot be sure 100% about what TS "taught us". And his/her redirects maybe promoting Sony maybe not. Perhaps, he/she redirects sometimes to buy time for him/herself(like the charities redirects or others), and perhaps to show MJ's message. Maybe he/she redirects what is convenient to him/her like PureLove's post claiming that exposing TS's identity would be dangerous to MJ(note that this article has strongly supported that it couldn't be dangerous for Michael if we learned TS's identity) and maybe he/she redirects to what are his/her intentions. Nobody knows. Except for those who believe every TS redirect as a clue. I am sorry, but, believing something as a clue just because TS wrote it, then this is following him/her as a sheep.
Nobody claimed that people follow TS as sheep. Nobody claimed Sony killed MJ. Nobody is blaming TS. At least not in this article.
This article's purpose is only to provide people with the results of a research done, some logical statements and suggest caution, awareness and thinking for ourselves. Nothing more, nothing less.
What people believe is their own choice and their right to exress their views must be respected from everyone.
Thank you for your well balanced thoughts Uranus. Your post shows you have looked at the situation from both perspectives.
Thanks a lot *Mo*.
L.O.V.E.
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Except for those who believe every TS redirect as a clue. I am sorry, but, believing something as a clue just because TS wrote it, then this is following him/her as a sheep.
But... :D Uranus (not Venus lol) what is a clue exactly? A clue is not a fact, a clue is not the truth... a clue is a clue.... everything can be a clue but it has to be "thought" and reflected upon... this is the basis. So thinking that every TS redirects are clues is not wrong in itself imo. As we believe that TMZ gives clues, the family gives clues etc.
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Talking about absolute claims... TS's connection to Sony doesn't mean that MJ sent him/her. It means that either MJ sent him or he's working for others(or him/herself). And yes, Sony's profit could be a propablity. MJ has been generating for them billions of dollars. Their profit would not come from us, hoax believers, buying some CD's. But, perhaps from people hearing the rumours about a great artist who hoaxed his death. This keeps MJ's fame star shining not only for people who already know him, but for young people and non-fans as well. Especially when such rumours come out of Riley's and Akon's mouth. And gaining several million dollars from new MJ releases makes a lot of sense.
Ok first of we do NOT know if TS has a connection with Sony. That is your claim and you do not have enough proof about that. You only assume that people who were not fans of MJ decided to buy MJ's albums and etc after they heard about the hoax. I DISAGREE with that wholeheartedly! I have NEVER EVER heard about a non-fan decide to buy the products after they heard about the hoax. Even if just a FEW decided to do it, this still doesn't explain why Sony would bother to do all of these and pay so much money on it. MJ's fame star was going to shine NO MATTER WHAT, a death hoax which was discovered by a thousand of believers changed NOTHING about it. Most of the non-fans still have no idea about MJ's hoax because they never cared about Michael and still they do not care about him or his hoax. His "death" was already going to make some people become aware of his music, NOT his hoax made them become aware of his music. So your theory still does not make any sense.
As far as TS is concerned, this article did not say that TS posted only about TMZ and Sony. The only claim here is how could someone have the information that TS had. And the coincidencies just lead to a statistically correct conclusion. That TS is propably closely connected to Sony. As for how he/she found all the other things(numerology etc), nobody knows, except for those who know TS personally. And because nobody knows TS personally from around here, this means that we do not know his/her goals. Whether he/she is a crazed fan or somebody respectful to MJ sharing his/her information with us or someone sent by MJ or a Sony accolyte nobody knows for sure.
Do you really believe what you're writing? Do you really believe that TS can be a crazed fan? Then I wish there were more fans like TS because he found things that ANY OF US could find!
I don't want to repeat myself but Sony would never ever bother to pay all these companies and people tons of money to make people believe in a hoax, to make non-fans buy the albums etc. Because non-fans don't care. So Sony's plan seemed like failed. But why would they bother to keep on? And if you believe that there're coincidences in this hoax, then you can take all of the clues you have found as coincidences. What makes you think that they're clues and not only coincidences?
Crafting numerology and combining it with conspiracy theories is not as difficult as it seems.
Really? Then why didn't you or ANY of us could find those numerology and most of the other information he gave us?
I want to ask you a question. As long as you believe Michael is alive (that's what you said. you said that you believe he is alive), why does it bother you where the clues come from? The clues come from TS, Sony, TMZ, Family, friends etc. Why does TS bother you then? I don't agree with you on that but even if TS is related with Sony and their intention was to make non-fans buy the products, who cares? Still the clues are very helpfull for us. Why does it bother you that much that you wanted to suggest caution?
And his/her redirects maybe promoting Sony maybe not. Perhaps, he/she redirects sometimes to buy time for him/herself(like the charities redirects or others), and perhaps to show MJ's message. Maybe he/she redirects what is convenient to him/her like PureLove's post claiming that exposing TS's identity would be dangerous to MJ(note that this article has strongly supported that it couldn't be dangerous for Michael if we learned TS's identity) and maybe he/she redirects to what are his/her intentions. Nobody knows. Except for those who believe every TS redirect as a clue. I am sorry, but, believing something as a clue just because TS wrote it, then this is following him/her as a sheep.
You claims come from only wrong assumptions. And I wasn't talking about TS' identity. I was talking about, if the connection btw TS and the Jacksons become obvious, that could be dangerous for MJ. Get the facts right pls. And I still insist on that one because if it becomes too obvious, the magic would be lost. There has to be some mystery in it. And this is also good for Michael's hiding and his safety.
And about following TS, the thing you don't understand is; we do NOT only follow TS. We're also making our own investigation. We're not believing anything blindly like the way you say. Then everything we follow to find a clue in this hoax make us sheeps. Does it matter if the clues comes from TS or TMZ or the family? Then stop following the hoax for the clues. According to what you say, we are all sheeps to follow the hoax. And every clue that we find can be defined as "coincidences".
Nobody claimed that people follow TS as sheep. Nobody claimed Sony killed MJ. Nobody is blaming TS. At least not in this article.
Except for those who believe every TS redirect as a clue. I am sorry, but, believing something as a clue just because TS wrote it, then this is following him/her as a sheep.
So, I think you're CLAIMING that people who follow TS are sheeps. Because following TS is thinking about the clues. And we all know what most of the people who oppose to TS claims about TS and Sony. If you missed that part, I can offer you to read Puff's posts.
This article's purpose is only to provide people with the results of a research done, some logical statements and suggest caution, awareness and thinking for ourselves. Nothing more, nothing less.
Sorry but I found nothing logical in your post. And I expalined why. If Sony was the enemy, the family would never make the deal of 10 albums. If you don't think the family is so greedy of course! And Sony would never bother to pay billions to make Michael's star shine which was already shining and always going to shine.
And we are already thinking for ourselves. We do not need yours or anybody else's cautions. The interesting point is, if you've been reading the forum for such a long time why did you wait till now to make this post? I'm asking you because your timing is very interesting. Did you wait the forum to be stirred up? When people started to oppose TS, you thought that this is the good time to attack TS? That is the reason why I didn't believe when you said that this was your only member ID and first post. Because your timing is very interesting and could not be a coincidence.
Ok this is my last post in this article because I'm tired of repeating myself and it gives me headache reading irrational posts made by some. Before you judge people and call them sheeps and Sony component, you need to look at yourself first and find valid proofs to support your theory. Your MAYBE MAYBEs bring you nowhere. Period.
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"This is Michaels plan for Victory." Purelove i am really likin this quote. Thats awesome and makes so much sense. Blessings to you
a Oklahoma fan!
Thank you. :)
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Sorry but I found nothing logical in your post. And I expalined why. If Sony was the enemy, the family would never make the deal of 10 albums. If you don't think the family is so greedy of course! And Sony would never bother to pay billions to make Michael's star shine which was already shining and always going to shine.
Sorry if I correct you but it was not the family who made the deal with sony, but it was Michael Jackson's estate, Branca and Mc Clain signed it. They are taking 10% of the estate profit. Michael fired Branca and we all know the story behind the will, a little suspicious eh?
I don't see in which way a bunch of demos and fake Michael's songs could help Michael's star shine...
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Demos and fake songs aren't worth $250 million, largest record contract in history they say.
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Amen.
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Ok this is my last post in this article because I'm tired of repeating myself and it gives me headache reading irrational posts made by some. Before you judge people and call them sheeps and Sony component, you need to look at yourself first and find valid proofs to support your theory. Your MAYBE MAYBEs bring you nowhere. Period.[/b]
I don't like saying that but I am very glad you stop posting in this article, because I am tired of personal attacks, claiming that your views are proof that something is oneway or another and misinterpretations of what people say. And mostly I am glad that I will not have to explain again that I don't claim anything to be proof and that I don't blame anybody. I think that this article and my previous answer to you has clarified what I suggest. And the maybe maybes mean that we know the possiblities instead of supporting what suits us to be truthful. Period.
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Except for those who believe every TS redirect as a clue. I am sorry, but, believing something as a clue just because TS wrote it, then this is following him/her as a sheep.
But... :D Uranus (not Venus lol) what is a clue exactly? A clue is not a fact, a clue is not the truth... a clue is a clue.... everything can be a clue but it has to be "thought" and reflected upon... this is the basis. So thinking that every TS redirects are clues is not wrong in itself imo. As we believe that TMZ gives clues, the family gives clues etc.
A clue is a clue indeed.And it is not the truth, indeed. But, when for example TMZ gives a clue and TS redirects to it, then assumtions and suggestions start about it. The next day TS redirects to one of the suggestions made by investigators. So, using the suggestion of someone as a clue or as being right and raising questions about it, directs our research in the way TS wishes, because this way other suggestions and perspectives are actually excluded from it.
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Except for those who believe every TS redirect as a clue. I am sorry, but, believing something as a clue just because TS wrote it, then this is following him/her as a sheep.
But... :D Uranus (not Venus lol) what is a clue exactly? A clue is not a fact, a clue is not the truth... a clue is a clue.... everything can be a clue but it has to be "thought" and reflected upon... this is the basis. So thinking that every TS redirects are clues is not wrong in itself imo. As we believe that TMZ gives clues, the family gives clues etc.
A clue is a clue indeed.And it is not the truth, indeed. But, when for example TMZ gives a clue and TS redirects to it, then assumtions and suggestions start about it. The next day TS redirects to one of the suggestions made by investigators. So, using the suggestion of someone as a clue or as being right and raising questions about it, directs our research in the way TS wishes, because this way other suggestions and perspectives are actually excluded from it.
That's an excellent clinical observation Uranus. That is exactly what's happening, regardless in what way you look at it.
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I don't like saying that but I am very glad you stop posting in this article, because I am tired of personal attacks, claiming that your views are proof that something is oneway or another and misinterpretations of what people say. And mostly I am glad that I will not have to explain again that I don't claim anything to be proof and that I don't blame anybody. I think that this article and my previous answer to you has clarified what I suggest. And the maybe maybes mean that we know the possiblities instead of supporting what suits us to be truthful. Period.
My posts do not contain any personal attacks since I do not know you personally. I wrote why I think you got this member ID and I questioned your purpose about why you made this post when people started to oppose TS. I'm an honest person and I can not welcome you when I have these thoughts about you in my mind. I didn't find you sincere when you wrote that you had been reading the forum for a long time but decided to make a post when you found info about TS and Sony. And I got it as an attack against TS and the ones who follow TS when you made your "first" post at the same time with the people who started to oppose TS. Your timing was not a coincidence for sure. Still those weren't personal attacks but if you got them that way, it's your problem.
And it seems like you didn't answer my question.
As long as you believe Michael is alive (that's what you said. you said that he wasn't murdered), why does it bother you where the clues come from? The clues come from TS, Sony, TMZ, Family, friends etc. Why does TS bother you then? I don't agree with you on that but even if TS is related with Sony and their intention was to make non-fans buy the products, who cares? Still the clues are very helpfull for us. Why does it bother you that much that you wanted to suggest caution?
And one more; if you believe that MJ is not murdered but dead, what are you doing on a hoax forum? What's the reason of this fuss you try to create here?
I'm trying to understand what your saying. Do you want to say that Michael is dead and Sony is trying to make profit by using his death? Do you still believe that MJ is alive and Sony is trying to profit by giving so called "clues" to us? Do you want to say that, Michael left no clues behind but we were spoonfed by Sony with profit purposes? What exactly are you saying? Are you a believer or NOT?
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Except for those who believe every TS redirect as a clue. I am sorry, but, believing something as a clue just because TS wrote it, then this is following him/her as a sheep.
But... :D Uranus (not Venus lol) what is a clue exactly? A clue is not a fact, a clue is not the truth... a clue is a clue.... everything can be a clue but it has to be "thought" and reflected upon... this is the basis. So thinking that every TS redirects are clues is not wrong in itself imo. As we believe that TMZ gives clues, the family gives clues etc.
A clue is a clue indeed.And it is not the truth, indeed. But, when for example TMZ gives a clue and TS redirects to it, then assumtions and suggestions start about it. The next day TS redirects to one of the suggestions made by investigators. So, using the suggestion of someone as a clue or as being right and raising questions about it, directs our research in the way TS wishes, because this way other suggestions and perspectives are actually excluded from it.
That's an excellent clinical observation Uranus. That is exactly what's happening, regardless in what way you look at it.
I agree. However I would like to add that people can only exclude suggestions & perspectives if they themselves elect to do so & not because TS or anyone else for that matter redirects.
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Except for those who believe every TS redirect as a clue. I am sorry, but, believing something as a clue just because TS wrote it, then this is following him/her as a sheep.
But... :D Uranus (not Venus lol) what is a clue exactly? A clue is not a fact, a clue is not the truth... a clue is a clue.... everything can be a clue but it has to be "thought" and reflected upon... this is the basis. So thinking that every TS redirects are clues is not wrong in itself imo. As we believe that TMZ gives clues, the family gives clues etc.
A clue is a clue indeed.And it is not the truth, indeed. But, when for example TMZ gives a clue and TS redirects to it, then assumtions and suggestions start about it. The next day TS redirects to one of the suggestions made by investigators. So, using the suggestion of someone as a clue or as being right and raising questions about it, directs our research in the way TS wishes, because this way other suggestions and perspectives are actually excluded from it.
That's an excellent clinical observation Uranus. That is exactly what's happening, regardless in what way you look at it.
I agree. However I would like to add that people can only exclude suggestions & perspectives if they themselves elect to do so & not because TS or anyone else for that matter redirects.
Yes! You are right...
Isn't it called ... THINK FOR YOURSELF?
With L.O.V.E
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Except for those who believe every TS redirect as a clue. I am sorry, but, believing something as a clue just because TS wrote it, then this is following him/her as a sheep.
But... :D Uranus (not Venus lol) what is a clue exactly? A clue is not a fact, a clue is not the truth... a clue is a clue.... everything can be a clue but it has to be "thought" and reflected upon... this is the basis. So thinking that every TS redirects are clues is not wrong in itself imo. As we believe that TMZ gives clues, the family gives clues etc.
A clue is a clue indeed.And it is not the truth, indeed. But, when for example TMZ gives a clue and TS redirects to it, then assumtions and suggestions start about it. The next day TS redirects to one of the suggestions made by investigators. So, using the suggestion of someone as a clue or as being right and raising questions about it, directs our research in the way TS wishes, because this way other suggestions and perspectives are actually excluded from it.
That's an excellent clinical observation Uranus. That is exactly what's happening, regardless in what way you look at it.
Could you give an example of a clue that has been elevated to an accepted truth that in turn has become the focus of an further investigation due to this process?
Because I disagree. TS generally redirects to obscure or metaphorical clues. Sometimes to TMZ, but it's usually referring to hints of a comeback or reveal, which we have already theorized is the most logical end to this hoax, long before TS ever arrived on the scene.
In my opinion, based on many months of observation, TS is mainly for encouragement, rather then for enlightenment. TS will validate discoveries we have already made, or point out examples of hoaxers walking the walk (all for L.O.V.E.), or illustrate supporting evidence to TS's own legitimacy.
Because in all honesty, I cannot recall a redirect that changed the course of our investigation or one that highlighted a clue or area of investigation that we had not already discovered previous.
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Ps. Also want to point out that this is one of the largest complaints about TS from skeptics... that TS never gives us any new information, just rehashes things we already know.
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And I had started feeling relieved... Ok, fine, I will give you the answer you asked for PureLove.
For TS my problem is what I stated up above about the clues along with the fact that we do not know his/her intentions. Have a look:
A clue is a clue indeed. And it is not the truth, indeed. But, when for example TMZ gives a clue and TS redirects to it, then assumtions and suggestions start about it. The next day TS redirects to one of the suggestions made by investigators. So, using the suggestion of someone as a clue or as being right and raising questions about it, directs our research in the way TS wishes, because this way other suggestions and perspectives are actually excluded from it.
As far as what I believe about the hoax, it is something personal and you don't have the right to question me about it since I have not permitted you to do so. However, my opinion is stated in my posts very well. So, my opinion is that I do not know what happened to MJ and I am trying to figure this out. And because of that I am examining and reconsidering every possiblity and part of that is participating in this blog.
When you adress against a person, whether you know who they are or not this stands for a personal attack. Speculating that my post had an ultimate goal stands for a personal attack, especially when claim that you are sure about it. And you have already said twice that you will not post again here, but you keep posting. This is my last answer to you, for subjects similar to "Are you a believer or not?", "You think we were spoonfed?", "You are arrogant" and all sorts of this staff, because patience has limits. I have already given you the answers in my posts. If you want to discuss something else with me just pm me or whatever, you are welcome. Have a nice day.
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For TS my problem is what I stated up above about the clues along with the fact that we do not know his/her intentions.
I didn't get the answers to my questions because I asked you, whatever TS' intention is, even if he's related with Sony and Sony is trying to promote itself, why does it bother you to get clues from TS? If you don't believe TS is giving no clues or giving no info to us, simply do not follow TS and make your own mind about whatever you think clues are etc. What's the reason to come here and accuse TS and create this mess?
As far as what I believe about the hoax, it is something personal and you don't have the right to question me about it since I have not permitted you to do so. However, my opinion is stated in my posts very well. So, my opinion is that I do not know what happened to MJ and I am trying to figure this out. And because of that I am examining and reconsidering every possiblity and part of that is participating in this blog.
I have the right to question you as long as you try to create a mess on the forum and do it at the time when people started to attack TS. I do understand that you haven't made up your mind about the hoax and to investigate is good with considering EVERY single possibility but all I see in your posts is you're blaming TS. It seems like you're looking at the issue from ONE SIDE only. You should try to see the big picture.
And you have already said twice that you will not post again here, but you keep posting.
It's MY choice to decide to keep on writing. You have no right to judge me for my decision. I didn't claim that I'm sure about it, I directly wrote that I didn't find you sincere. And it's my opinion.
You wrote that you came here to "warn" us and you "did" it so "well".
I have nothing more to say to you. Enough I wasted my time with this.
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bec, I don't like that this is the example that I use, but it is the fresher example in my memory. TIAI 11/24, PureLove's post.
Firstly, I want to state that I respect PureLove's opinion, although I disagree with it.
Now... During the period TS made this redirect there was a question raised in this forum. When people learned about his/her redirect started making suggestions about what he/she wanted to mean. This post was long. Could anyone understand what he/she meant with it? No, most people proposed something different. But, this is not the main point. All attention was concentrated in this post. In the question "why not in any other post?" most people answer "because it was the most relevant". But this is not the right answer. The right answer is that this was the most suitable redirect for TS, whether it was made by good purpose or bad purpose. So, by saying that the redirects suitable to TS's purposes are the relevant ones is a great problem, since TS's purpose is unknown.
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For TS my problem is what I stated up above about the clues along with the fact that we do not know his/her intentions.
I didn't get the answers to my questions because I asked you, whatever TS' intention is, even if he's related with Sony and Sony is trying to promote itself, why does it bother you to get clues from TS? If you don't believe TS is giving no clues or giving no info to us, simply do not follow TS and make your own mind about whatever you think clues are etc. What's the reason to come here and accuse TS and create this mess?
As far as what I believe about the hoax, it is something personal and you don't have the right to question me about it since I have not permitted you to do so. However, my opinion is stated in my posts very well. So, my opinion is that I do not know what happened to MJ and I am trying to figure this out. And because of that I am examining and reconsidering every possiblity and part of that is participating in this blog.
I have the right to question you as long as you try to create a mess on the forum and do it at the time when people started to attack TS. I do understand that you haven't made up your mind about the hoax and to investigate is good with considering EVERY single possibility but all I see in your posts is you're blaming TS. It seems like you're looking at the issue from ONE SIDE only. You should try to see the big picture.
And you have already said twice that you will not post again here, but you keep posting.
It's MY choice to decide to keep on writing. You have no right to judge me for my decision. I didn't claim that I'm sure about it, I directly wrote that I didn't find you sincere. And it's my opinion.
You wrote that you came here to "warn" us and you "did" it so "well".
I have nothing more to say to you. Enough I wasted my time with you.
Do not use my posts partly in order to make them suit to your answers. This is the whole post of mine in which you answered:
And I had started feeling relieved... Ok, fine, I will give you the answer you asked for PureLove.
For TS my problem is what I stated up above about the clues along with the fact that we do not know his/her intentions. Have a look:
A clue is a clue indeed. And it is not the truth, indeed. But, when for example TMZ gives a clue and TS redirects to it, then assumtions and suggestions start about it. The next day TS redirects to one of the suggestions made by investigators. So, using the suggestion of someone as a clue or as being right and raising questions about it, directs our research in the way TS wishes, because this way other suggestions and perspectives are actually excluded from it.
As far as what I believe about the hoax, it is something personal and you don't have the right to question me about it since I have not permitted you to do so. However, my opinion is stated in my posts very well. So, my opinion is that I do not know what happened to MJ and I am trying to figure this out. And because of that I am examining and reconsidering every possiblity and part of that is participating in this blog.
When you adress against a person, whether you know who they are or not this stands for a personal attack. Speculating that my post had an ultimate goal stands for a personal attack, especially when claim that you are sure about it. And you have already said twice that you will not post again here, but you keep posting. This is my last answer to you, for subjects similar to "Are you a believer or not?", "You think we were spoonfed?", "You are arrogant" and all sorts of this staff, because patience has limits. I have already given you the answers in my posts. If you want to discuss something else with me just pm me or whatever, you are welcome. Have a nice day.
Now, we can both keep our promises.
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In regards to "clues", here's an interesting tid-bit. Recently I had a conversation about lyrics and their meaning with an old-timer in the music industry. He told me that it's common knowledge among musicians that David Bowie used to cut out words from newspapers and magazines and saved them in a draw. Whenever he was about to write a new song he just grabbed a hand full of these bits of paper, spread them out and started writing his lyrics by using the words he blindly picked.
Now here's a quote from Mr. Bowie himself:
Frankly, I mean, sometimes the interpretations I've seen on some of the songs that I've written are a lot more interesting than the input that I put in.
Clues are mostly also based on interpretations, but that doesn't mean these interpretations are correct.[/b]
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Mo, that's very true and I've always been one to feel that song lyrics (unless they've been explained in detail by whoever wrote them) can be interpreted by different people to mean different things. This is true of Michael's lyrics too, even those that seem straightforward and angry. Unless we heard it from MJ himself we don't know who he is angry with. Sony, media, NWO, rabid fans, stalkers,police departments...or maybe people in his private life who have betrayed him.
Uranus (that's one heck of a username) I think the reason others are reacting negatively to your posts is simply down to timing and while I can absolutely get where you're coming from that TS could simply be stringing people along, providing "clues", waiting for people to interpret them and then picking one to redirect to, thus making it up as he goes along, that would imply he's either messing with us for personal pleasure or for sinister reasons. You seem convinced that being affiliated with Sony means sinister intentions, whereas many of us simply don't see what Sony has to gain by messing with a few thousand hoaxers. When I said the reaction from some to you is down to timing I meant that you just joined, having obviously read and formed opinions on the reactions to TS for quite a while, waiting till the questions surrounding his authenticity were raised and then diving in with grim warnings. Now not everyone here believes in TS and that's fine but why wait till all the commotion started to state this strong opinion, you've obviously had doubts about his intentions for a while. The fact that you seem so fixated on this and seem reluctant to discuss the bigger picture as to why it would be such a bad thing for him to be affiliated with Sony or other matters connected to the hoax raises red flags for many. The warnings you've given about not blindly following him have been stated by many of us here, and I doubt anyone is 100% sure who he is. Therefore many of us keep our objective hat on and decide how relevant each "clue" is/might be. This thing between you and some others is just going round in circles, either you believe TS is genuine or not, if you don't you don't have to read the redirects or the interpretations, nor worry that we're all being brainwashed by the "cult of TS/Sony". Sure every adventure is more thrilling when there's a shadowy bad guy pretending to be one of the good guys, but until TS starts using any influence he has in a negative way in my book he's still one of the good guys.
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Mo, that's very true and I've always been one to feel that song lyrics (unless they've been explained in detail by whoever wrote them) can be interpreted by different people to mean different things. This is true of Michael's lyrics too, even those that seem straightforward and angry. Unless we heard it from MJ himself we don't know who he is angry with. Sony, media, NWO, rabid fans, stalkers,police departments...or maybe people in his private life who have betrayed him.
Uranus (that's one heck of a username) I think the reason others are reacting negatively to your posts is simply down to timing and while I can absolutely get where you're coming from that TS could simply be stringing people along, providing "clues", waiting for people to interpret them and then picking one to redirect to, thus making it up as he goes along, that would imply he's either messing with us for personal pleasure or for sinister reasons. You seem convinced that being affiliated with Sony means sinister intentions, whereas many of us simply don't see what Sony has to gain by messing with a few thousand hoaxers. When I said the reaction from some to you is down to timing I meant that you just joined, having obviously read and formed opinions on the reactions to TS for quite a while, waiting till the questions surrounding his authenticity were raised and then diving in with grim warnings. Now not everyone here believes in TS and that's fine but why wait till all the commotion started to state this strong opinion, you've obviously had doubts about his intentions for a while. The fact that you seem so fixated on this and seem reluctant to discuss the bigger picture as to why it would be such a bad thing for him to be affiliated with Sony or other matters connected to the hoax raises red flags for many. The warnings you've given about not blindly following him have been stated by many of us here, and I doubt anyone is 100% sure who he is. Therefore many of us keep our objective hat on and decide how relevant each "clue" is/might be. This thing between you and some others is just going round in circles, either you believe TS is genuine or not, if you don't you don't have to read the redirects or the interpretations, nor worry that we're all being brainwashed by the "cult of TS/Sony". Sure every adventure is more thrilling when there's a shadowy bad guy pretending to be one of the good guys, but until TS starts using any influence he has in a negative way in my book he's still one of the good guys.
Please people, we are trying to figure some things out and we are discussing possiblities not truths. How do you know that I waited until the perfect timing? Perhaps you know my timetable as well? It is you making corcles over and over again on the same things. I DID NOT BLAME ANYONE AND I HAVE STATED THIS A HUNDREND OF TIMES IN MY POSTS! Please read all the posts before coming up with an idea. This is a post of mine to PureLove written yesterday. I WILL NOT REPEAT THE SAME THNNGS AGAIN AND AGAIN:
Let's clear this out. Nobody can claim that has proof for something, because proof is something solid and something that we know as a fact. We have been until now only able to find clues, analyze them and make some connections. And this is the proccess of connecting the dots. There are hundrends of thousands of facts that we do not know. Pretending to be sure about what is real and what is not, is only an illusion. And arrogance is to be absolute, not to question.
Talking about absolute claims... TS's connection to Sony doesn't mean that MJ sent him/her. It means that either MJ sent him or he's working for others(or him/herself). And yes, Sony's profit could be a propablity. MJ has been generating for them billions of dollars. Their profit would not come from us, hoax believers, buying some CD's. But, perhaps from people hearing the rumours about a great artist who hoaxed his death. This keeps MJ's fame star shining not only for people who already know him, but for young people and non-fans as well. Especially when such rumours come out of Riley's and Akon's mouth. And gaining several million dollars from new MJ releases makes a lot of sense.
As far as TS is concerned, this article did not say that TS posted only about TMZ and Sony. The only claim here is how could someone have the information that TS had. And the coincidencies just lead to a statistically correct conclusion. That TS is propably closely connected to Sony. As for how he/she found all the other things(numerology etc), nobody knows, except for those who know TS personally. And because nobody knows TS personally from around here, this means that we do not know his/her goals. Whether he/she is a crazed fan or somebody respectful to MJ sharing his/her information with us or someone sent by MJ or a Sony accolyte nobody knows for sure. Crafting numerology and combining it with conspiracy theories is not as difficult as it seems. So, we cannot be sure 100% about what TS "taught us". And his/her redirects maybe promoting Sony maybe not. Perhaps, he/she redirects sometimes to buy time for him/herself(like the charities redirects or others), and perhaps to show MJ's message. Maybe he/she redirects what is convenient to him/her like PureLove's post claiming that exposing TS's identity would be dangerous to MJ(note that this article has strongly supported that it couldn't be dangerous for Michael if we learned TS's identity) and maybe he/she redirects to what are his/her intentions. Nobody knows. Except for those who believe every TS redirect as a clue. I am sorry, but, believing something as a clue just because TS wrote it, then this is following him/her as a sheep.
Nobody claimed that people follow TS as sheep. Nobody claimed Sony killed MJ. Nobody is blaming TS. At least not in this article.
This article's purpose is only to provide people with the results of a research done, some logical statements and suggest caution, awareness and thinking for ourselves. Nothing more, nothing less.
What people believe is their own choice and their right to exress their views must be respected from everyone.
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In regards to "clues", here's an interesting tid-bit. Recently I had a conversation about lyrics and their meaning with an old-timer in the music industry. He told me that it's common knowledge among musicians that David Bowie used to cut out words from newspapers and magazines and saved them in a draw. Whenever he was about to write a new song he just grabbed a hand full of these bits of paper, spread them out and started writing his lyrics by using the words he blindly picked.
Now here's a quote from Mr. Bowie himself:
Frankly, I mean, sometimes the interpretations I've seen on some of the songs that I've written are a lot more interesting than the input that I put in.
Clues are mostly also based on interpretations, but that doesn't mean these interpretations are correct.[/b]
I totally agree!
And that is why, before analyzing a clue we shoud judge whether it can be interpreted as a clue. Then we should search for all the possible interpretations of a reasonable clue. And finally, choose the most logically based interpretetion of this clue.
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And that is why, before analyzing a clue we shoud judge whether it can be interpreted as a clue. Then we should search for all the possible interpretations of a reasonable clue. And finally, choose the most logically based interpretetion of this clue.
This you say is true
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Uranus I didn't say you accused anyone of anything, you simply keep reminding us that we shouldn't take anything TS says as the truth. Most of us already keep that in mind and it's been said many times. Like I said you have a valid point that certain directions might be ignored. And of course when you decide to join is up to you, I was simply pointing out why some have questioned your timing in joining. Like you we're all here to investigate what really happened, it doesn't make anyone's opinions more valid than anyone elses. But each to their own and all that, I think many of us are trying to keep this issue from dividing us as a group, surely this is just one strand in a bigger ball of mystery and if we all just let each other make up our own minds and not waste too much time or energy trying to convince others of our own theories we'll do a lot better. We all have to decide on what's possible based on our own common sense. Which is what you've said yourself basically. I'm well aware you didn't say you thought MJ was murdered and that you're just discussing possibilities. That's all anyone is doing here and for the most part it's done without conflict despite disagreements. Agreeing to disagree is absolutely essential here.
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Sorry, if I become fierce.
This conflict here was unexpected for me and I have been very frustrated by several posts.
I agree with you trustno1.
Thanks for your post.
L.O.V.E.
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In regards to "clues", here's an interesting tid-bit. Recently I had a conversation about lyrics and their meaning with an old-timer in the music industry. He told me that it's common knowledge among musicians that David Bowie used to cut out words from newspapers and magazines and saved them in a draw. Whenever he was about to write a new song he just grabbed a hand full of these bits of paper, spread them out and started writing his lyrics by using the words he blindly picked.
Now here's a quote from Mr. Bowie himself:
Frankly, I mean, sometimes the interpretations I've seen on some of the songs that I've written are a lot more interesting than the input that I put in.
Clues are mostly also based on interpretations, but that doesn't mean these interpretations are correct.[/b]
I totally agree!
And that is why, before analyzing a clue we shoud judge whether it can be interpreted as a clue. Then we should search for all the possible interpretations of a reasonable clue. And finally, choose the most logically based interpretetion of this clue.
Oh really and what must we do to judge if a clue can be a clue? And what about the interpretations, there can be a lot and they can all be wrong even if they make some sense. But sense in regards to what exactly? How can we oppose that clue and to what in order to know if it makes sense or not? But what kind of clues are we talking about? Michael being alive or not? This is all a matter of perspective.
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Uranus: L.O.V.E to you too. We're all in this together and I think as long as you know that your opinion is as respected as anyone else's here and that you're part of this family, then everything is fine. If you felt attacked you were bound to be defensive but I always think it's best to move past differences and not let them become grudges. Thank you so much for your gracious reply and I look forward to getting to know you better, it was a bumpy start but I hope you won't let that affect your opinion of anyone here. ;)
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A conclusion, a phrase that I law sometimes:
"Learn to think for yourself, find your own ideas and your own voice as you read, view or listen to"
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bec, I don't like that this is the example that I use, but it is the fresher example in my memory. TIAI 11/24, PureLove's post.
Firstly, I want to state that I respect PureLove's opinion, although I disagree with it.
Now... During the period TS made this redirect there was a question raised in this forum. When people learned about his/her redirect started making suggestions about what he/she wanted to mean. This post was long. Could anyone understand what he/she meant with it? No, most people proposed something different. But, this is not the main point. All attention was concentrated in this post. In the question "why not in any other post?" most people answer "because it was the most relevant". But this is not the right answer. The right answer is that this was the most suitable redirect for TS, whether it was made by good purpose or bad purpose. So, by saying that the redirects suitable to TS's purposes are the relevant ones is a great problem, since TS's purpose is unknown.
I see where your going with your thoughts. I posted my opinion in this thread viewtopic.php?f=48&t=15871&start=225 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=15871&start=225) regarding this type of situation your now talking about. I am reminded when I read threads like this of what Michael has said before, "I love psycology" "People make up all these ideas in their heads based on something they think is going on"
I see people feeling to confidant in their thinking (like they are always right) because of validation from TS on their posts and they become manipulated into thinking a certain way. Maybe this was a test to see if you really believed what you wrote before when you got that confirmation or do you switch your belief at the drop of confusion?
It never fails, as soon as a redirect to a post is validated by TS everyone jumps on the wagon and comments flow of how great the person who wrote the comment is. Please don't misunderstand my meaning of everyone and jumps on the wagon. I have agreed with many statements people have wrote when TS redirected to them. That isn't the point. Whether you see it this way or not you are being manipulated. If TS can so easily manipulate you think how the powers to be manipulate you.
That is the biggest lesson this should have shown you. I see this as a merry go round and it is going around and around.
When I said I see people feeling to confidant in their thinking (like they are always right). I am and was referring to these situations like what is happening right now in this thread. I also meant cocky when I said confidant. This happens alot more than maybe people realize. When a redirect goes to a persons post and they get the feeling of being right because TS validated it I see some of those same people speaking to others with a tone to their posts as if they have the absolute knowledge and they down talk others. It has happened to me also.
There is a difference when a person is geniunely stating an opinion and when someone speaks to someone in a tone of superiority.
Now as far as clues and when to accept them for truth, that is only up to you as an individual of what you choose to interpret (imagine) as the truth. What your definition of fact (truth) is and what mine is will be different. I did answer you about my thoughts on SONY and the connection to Michael. I answered you with actual video proof using Puff's post of why I believed that not just speculation.[/b]
http://www.successconsciousness.com/index_000014.htm (http://www.successconsciousness.com/index_000014.htm)
Reality Versus Imagination and Illusion
By Remez Sasson
The five senses make us feel that the world is real. Seeing the solidity of the objects around us, feeling the impact of the senses, it is hard to deny the validity of what we see. Everything looks real and we never stop to question this reality.
The mind is attached to the five senses and accepts everything as real without questioning. When we bump into a table or a wall and we feel pain, it is difficult to say that we are imagining it. When we see with our eyes, hear sounds, smell, or when we feel heat or coldness, we accept these sense impressions as real.
Some say that the world is an illusion, Maya in Eastern terminology. Can we accept this when everything looks so real? Can we regard the world as imagination?
We need the five senses and the mind to be conscious of the world, which means that the world is dependent on them. Without the senses and the mind the world does not exist for us.
If we say that a real thing is something that always exist with no gaps, then the outside world is not real. There are times besides sleep, when we are so busy that we are not conscious of what is going on around us. When there are no sensory sensations, as while being in a floating tank, or when in deep meditation, we are still conscious, but not of the world. This means that sometimes we are conscious of the world and sometimes we are not.
After we wake up from sleep, or get out of deep meditation and return to ordinary consciousness, we feel that there was a gap in our consciousness of the outside world. There was no world at that time. If we endeavor to pay attention to our consciousness we will come to the conclusion that the outside world comes and go, while the awareness of our inner consciousness never wavers.
The world exists for us only when the senses and mind are directed towards it, and cease to exist for us the moment we silence the senses and mind. During deep sleep we do not experience the world because the senses are not active. Can you prove the reality of the world while you are deeply asleep? When you wake up from sleep other people may tell you that the world existed, but can you prove that these people existed while you were asleep?
After waking up we may invent all kinds of theories to prove the realty of the world. Yet, these are only mental theories. During sleep it was non-existent for us. The world disappeared together with time.
During sleep dreams seem very real, but upon awakening we realize that they were just dreams. So it is with this world we call reality. It is possible to wake from it too. Sri Ramana Maharshi, the great Indian sage, has said that the difference between a dream while sleeping and the dream we call wakefulness is only of duration, one short and the other one long.
Further to the above, each person interprets and relates to other people's behavior, words and attitudes in a different way, according to the contents of his subconscious mind. No one's world is like another. Again, we see illusion at work. A world is created, based on our interpretation of what we see hear and sense.
Mind and thoughts create the world
Thoughts arise in the mind and we become aware of them. The same kind of thoughts tend to arise again and again. If we let this process continue, it goes on incessantly. These thoughts make us expect, behave, talk and act in a certain personalized way, and thus cause the people we come in contact with, to treat us and relate to us in a certain manner.
We usually continue with the same way of thinking, and live the same kind of life each day, whether we like it or not. These thoughts shape our circumstances and relationships. It is like watching the same movie over and over again. If we want to watch a different movie we have to change the reel or cassette. This happens by changing our thoughts. This is how creative visualization works, and there is nothing supernatural about this.
The world we experience and the life we live, are the reflections of our thoughts. The mind creates a world of illusion. By changing our thoughts, we change the illusion and experience a different reality. We do not create a world, only an illusion that looks real. No unusual power is involved here. We are living in Maya and are changing the Maya.
When we are able to still the mind and the senses, our consciousness seems to shift into a new dimension. Actually it is there all the time, only that the mind makes us think otherwise. When there are no thoughts in the mind, the world we know and believe is real, loses its reality. We become conscious of the world beyond the mind and illusions.
Waking up from illusion
We can wake up completely, understand and become conscious of the illusion of Maya, and live, as we really are, as a pure, formless, beginning-less and endless consciousness. Due to illusion it seems as if we are all separated, having individual selves and each living a different life. Even when we wake up from Maya, its play may go on. We continue to see and experience it, yet it is of no concern to us anymore. Outwardly we may continue to live our life in the same manner, but we are really awake.
It is like a movie show. A person watching a movie gets so involved with the characters and with what happens on the screen. He may become happy or sad with the heroes, gets depressed, shouts or laughs.
If at a particular moment he decides to stop watching the screen and manages to withdraw his attention from the movie, he gets snapped out of the illusion the movie creates. The projecting machine will go on projecting images on the screen, but he knows that it is only light projected through the film onto the screen. What is seen on the screen is not real, but yet it is there. He may watch the movie, or he may decide to close his eyes and ears and stop looking at the screen.
Have you ever watched a movie, when at some point the reel got stuck or there was a power failure? What happens to you when you watch an interesting, absorbing film on the television and then suddenly there are commercials? You are snapped out of the illusion to the world around you. When you are sleeping and dreaming, and someone wakes you up, you feel thrown out of one world to a different one. It is the same in the life we call reality. It is possible to wake up from it.
One who has managed to still his mind and senses through proper training, may go on living and acting in the world like the person in the cinema hall, who is no longer interested in the movie. He learns how to get out of the illusion and wake up. If he is no more a slave to illusion and dreams, he is free. He sees everything as it really is. Contrary to what you might think, such a person functions in his daily life in a better way, is stronger, happier, very practical and free from worry.
In the East, metaphors are used in order to demonstrate what illusion is in relation to Reality. A jewel made of gold may be called an earring or a necklace, but actually it is only gold. Before it became a jewel and after it is melted it is only gold. Clay is shaped into vessels such as plates, cups, or vases, but they are only clay.
Due to convenience of speech we call these objects made of gold or clay by many names, but they are really only clay or gold. Everything in existence is "made" from the Original Substance, and is not a "real" thing standing by itself, exactly as in the above examples. Nothing has a reality of its own.
A mirage is not real, but yet we see it. A dream taking place while sleeping is not real, yet we experience it during the time of the dream as a reality. A hologram looks 3D, while it is actually flat.
In the East, one of the metaphors of explaining reality and illusion is that of the rope and the snake. In the dark we may see a rope and mistake it for a snake. When there is enough light we realize that it was only a rope, and the snake disappears. It is only due to some kind of illusion that we see a world. Everything is in the mind.
Now Ur anus no offense but, I always read and interpret this name like I wrote it. lol
Yes I have a potty mind. 8-)
Peace
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My perspective and interpretation is that this entire brohaha is much ado about nothing.
I mean, let's face it, in reality, all we are doing here is shooting the shit with a bunch of our friends. This hoax will go on with or without us. We play an integral part as extras and lab rats, in my opinion, but just like lab rats, there is no "wrong" answer... we cannot possibly do the wrong thing or make the wrong decisions or adhere to the wrong belief because recording how we move and think and act as a group is very likely the idea. I mean... MJ's comeback isn't contingent on our actions. That's sort of insane to assume that the man is going to let the culmination of a (my opinion) 25 year life legacy project rest on the shoulders of a small group of completely unaware internet users, who had better not do the wrong thing as a group even if they don't know what that wrong thing is... or else no MJ for you!
Yeah no. Not gonna happen.
So whatever. I'm having a good time with this hoax and TS helps break up the down time. And it irritates me that haters perpetually feel the need to come here and troll the forum and try to stop me from having a good time. Like I'm some blind moron who lives in fantasy land and needs to be enlightened. 17 months of this crap and I grow weary. For the 456459745th time, non-believers should get an escort to the door.
I smell some seriously shady shit going on with this topic. All things considered, the usernames and the affiliations. Somethings up with this. I don't know what but something isn't right.
Plus I just worked my ass off the last 10 days and I still have no day off til Christmas and I'm cranky.
Oh and by the way, NO it's NOT an investigator's website... it's a DEATH HOAX investigators website. Look, I didn't name it, I just read the top of the page.
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My perspective and interpretation is that this entire brohaha is much ado about nothing.
I mean, let's face it, in reality, all we are doing here is shooting the shit with a bunch of our friends. This hoax will go on with or without us. We play an integral part as extras and lab rats, in my opinion, but just like lab rats, there is no "wrong" answer... we cannot possibly do the wrong thing or make the wrong decisions or adhere to the wrong belief because recording how we move and think and act as a group is very likely the idea. I mean... MJ's comeback isn't contingent on our actions. That's sort of insane to assume that the man is going to let the culmination of a (my opinion) 25 year life legacy project rest on the shoulders of a small group of completely unaware internet users, who had better not do the wrong thing as a group even if they don't know what that wrong thing is... or else no MJ for you!
Yeah no. Not gonna happen.
Well said bec. Sometimes I feel like I'm part of a test group but I'm definitely here voluntarily. I sometimes feel that I really get what's going on with the hoax and well, the world, and to be honest, I would rather know and be a part of it then be completely ignorant in that I simply don't know. I can't believe that this hoax has flown completely over the heads of millions and millions of people.
With all the pot-stirring that's been going on lately, it's only reasonable to assume that it would happen on this forum as well.
I think the main reason for the hoax is for love, I really do believe that. I think if people could just open their hearts and minds to each other, we could achieve peace for the entire world where we work together to better ourselves and the Earth. I really think that is what Michael has always wanted and I can't think of any reason why anyone should ever object to that. For this, and for the fact that there's no doubt in my mind that Michael is alive, is why I choose to be here everyday.
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My perspective and interpretation is that this entire brohaha is much ado about nothing.
I mean, let's face it, in reality, all we are doing here is shooting the shit with a bunch of our friends. This hoax will go on with or without us. We play an integral part as extras and lab rats, in my opinion, but just like lab rats, there is no "wrong" answer... we cannot possibly do the wrong thing or make the wrong decisions or adhere to the wrong belief because recording how we move and think and act as a group is very likely the idea. I mean... MJ's comeback isn't contingent on our actions. That's sort of insane to assume that the man is going to let the culmination of a (my opinion) 25 year life legacy project rest on the shoulders of a small group of completely unaware internet users, who had better not do the wrong thing as a group even if they don't know what that wrong thing is... or else no MJ for you!
Yeah no. Not gonna happen.
Well said bec. Sometimes I feel like I'm part of a test group but I'm definitely here voluntarily. I sometimes feel that I really get what's going on with the hoax and well, the world, and to be honest, I would rather know and be a part of it then be completely ignorant in that I simply don't know. I can't believe that this hoax has flown completely over the heads of millions and millions of people.
With all the pot-stirring that's been going on lately, it's only reasonable to assume that it would happen on this forum as well.
I think the main reason for the hoax is for love, I really do believe that. I think if people could just open their hearts and minds to each other, we could achieve peace for the entire world where we work together to better ourselves and the Earth. I really think that is what Michael has always wanted and I can't think of any reason why anyone should ever object to that. For this, and for the fact that there's no doubt in my mind that Michael is alive, is why I choose to be here everyday.
I can associate with the lab rat feeling. This is exactly what I feel has been going on for too many years. It took a form of mind control experiment to get us here in the first place and we have been held down here for too long and unfortunately because we have been made to be blind, it will take the courage and faith of someone who can 'see' to use these same tactics to free us. Once we can see for ourselves we won't need this form of guidance but to get to the end of the tunnel, we do! and I thank Michael for having the strong sense of personal responsibility and courage and for loving us 'more'. I trust Michael because he understands love and he trusts love and he understands our blindness. It really is all for love, for peace, for unity and for fun. One of the main things about Michael is that he knew how to be like a child, to be completely in the moment, to laugh, to play with no inhibitions and in complete innocence. This is what is missing and this, for me is what this is all for.
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Well said bec. Sometimes I feel like I'm part of a test group but I'm definitely here voluntarily. I sometimes feel that I really get what's going on with the hoax and well, the world, and to be honest, I would rather know and be a part of it then be completely ignorant in that I simply don't know. I can't believe that this hoax has flown completely over the heads of millions and millions of people.
With all the pot-stirring that's been going on lately, it's only reasonable to assume that it would happen on this forum as well.
I think the main reason for the hoax is for love, I really do believe that. I think if people could just open their hearts and minds to each other, we could achieve peace for the entire world where we work together to better ourselves and the Earth. I really think that is what Michael has always wanted and I can't think of any reason why anyone should ever object to that. For this, and for the fact that there's no doubt in my mind that Michael is alive, is why I choose to be here everyday.
I can associate with the lab rat feeling. This is exactly what I feel has been going on for too many years. It took a form of mind control experiment to get us here in the first place and we have been held down here for too long and unfortunately because we have been made to be blind, it will take the courage and faith of someone who can 'see' to use these same tactics to free us. Once we can see for ourselves we won't need this form of guidance but to get to the end of the tunnel, we do! and I thank Michael for having the strong sense of personal responsibility and courage and for loving us 'more'. I trust Michael because he understands love and he trusts love and he understands our blindness. It really is all for love, for peace, for unity and for fun. One of the main things about Michael is that he knew how to be like a child, to be completely in the moment, to laugh, to play with no inhibitions and in complete innocence. This is what is missing and this, for me is what this is all for.[/quote]
Beautifully written Andrea & Believe777! Michael has maintained a child's heart despite many tough challenges in his life. He could easily have become bitter and cynical, but he chose to make himself a channel for LOVE instead. He is a living example of what we all have the potential of being if only we allow ourselves to let go of worldly doubts and fears and let the UNIVERSAL POWER OF LOVE take hold.
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Well said bec. Sometimes I feel like I'm part of a test group but I'm definitely here voluntarily. I sometimes feel that I really get what's going on with the hoax and well, the world, and to be honest, I would rather know and be a part of it then be completely ignorant in that I simply don't know. I can't believe that this hoax has flown completely over the heads of millions and millions of people.
With all the pot-stirring that's been going on lately, it's only reasonable to assume that it would happen on this forum as well.
I think the main reason for the hoax is for love, I really do believe that. I think if people could just open their hearts and minds to each other, we could achieve peace for the entire world where we work together to better ourselves and the Earth. I really think that is what Michael has always wanted and I can't think of any reason why anyone should ever object to that. For this, and for the fact that there's no doubt in my mind that Michael is alive, is why I choose to be here everyday.
I can associate with the lab rat feeling. This is exactly what I feel has been going on for too many years. It took a form of mind control experiment to get us here in the first place and we have been held down here for too long and unfortunately because we have been made to be blind, it will take the courage and faith of someone who can 'see' to use these same tactics to free us. Once we can see for ourselves we won't need this form of guidance but to get to the end of the tunnel, we do! and I thank Michael for having the strong sense of personal responsibility and courage and for loving us 'more'. I trust Michael because he understands love and he trusts love and he understands our blindness. It really is all for love, for peace, for unity and for fun. One of the main things about Michael is that he knew how to be like a child, to be completely in the moment, to laugh, to play with no inhibitions and in complete innocence. This is what is missing and this, for me is what this is all for.
Beautifully written Andrea & Believe777! Michael has maintained a child's heart despite many tough challenges in his life. He could easily have become bitter and cynical, but he chose to make himself a channel for LOVE instead. He is a living example of what we all have the potential of being if only we allow ourselves to let go of worldly doubts and fears and let the UNIVERSAL POWER OF LOVE take hold.[/quote]
Amen! This really is about expanding our minds and opening our hearts to the only thing that really matters in life and that is LOVE, Peace and Unity.
it is wonderful to see that others have seen the true purpose of this "hoax." We need to believe in ourselves and we need to believe that Michael is 100% in total control of everything else! "Keep the Faith" and "Trust" in Michael...just enjoy the "Show", everything is going to be ok in the end...BELIEVE!
I love you guys!!! :) <3
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@bec Who said that MJ planned this hoax for 25 years? That's assuming again... We don't know what happened in Michael Jackson's life, nobody here has the truth, we can just speculate. OUR theories could be wrong, who knows?
This hoax began before TS, right, but without him it wouldn't last so long. Look at the today redirect, it's not time yet to give an explanation? It's about a week of chaos and that is the only thing he could say? Sorry, but I personally don't buy it.
If this hoax has a message to spread, I don't think it could go on without the hoax believers.
And for the trolling part..This is not trolling, we know very well that this is a hoax death website, but how many people are here to make up their minds? That is what we are doing, I'm sorry if those kind of comments are annoying you, but there is freedom of speech here and we should respect each other opinions.
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1. Uranus it's obvious you changed your identity to post this and you've been here under another username before. I don't understand why you can't expres an opinion without taking a new identity. We are grown-ups I suppose.
Please don't mind that I speak like this, but it is not fair to the others ...
2. Why on earth would Sony be interested of promoting the idea of Michael being alive for a bunch of believers that DON'T COUNT is the sales figures?
In this great adventure MJ and Sony and TS and TMZ are playing in the same team - JMO.
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anyway, I think TS is Michael and I think he also posts here under another username..... for a good cause of course :D
And if I'm wrong - so be it.
Love you Michael :D
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"Situation, speculation, everybody litigation".
Reminds you of something or someone? Anyway...
Firstly, my username is Uranus. Uranus was the father of the Titans in the ancient greek mythology. Uranus is also one of the nine planets of our solar system and as a word means "sky" in greek. Has anybody problem with the fact that I love the sky? If yes, I don't care.
It is obvious that people write posts while they have read the main article and a couple of other posts. Thus, we end up with posts like "you are a hater, you pretend to be the one who will enlighten us, you changed your username etc etc". Have you considered how ridiculus would those comments be if this was not the case? This is not the case as I have replied with my many posts, but I cannot prove it. However, I don't have to do so. Posts are written in order to share opinions and knowledge. This means that people should judge the words of the poster and not the poster himself. When people attack the poster intead of answering to the posts with their opinions, this strongly suggests a lack of arguments on their account.
I thank all those people who stick to the conversation and try to keep a balance between what is real and what is an assumption or a speculation.
L.O.V.E.
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if this is the case as you say - my apologies.
We can't prove you were here before under another username and you can't prove this is your only identity here, so this leads to nothing.
What do you say about my second question?
Why would Sony put so much resources in making a few people believe Michael is alive?
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Oh and by the way, NO it's NOT an investigator's website... it's a DEATH HOAX investigators website. Look, I didn't name it, I just read the top of the page.
MJDHI is introduced on the index as:
The site is an investigation site, that is it's purpose. Although Michael Jackson is loved here, and we feel aggrieved at the way much of his life has been scrutinized by those other than the people here, this was never set up as a fan based site, but one in which people are invited to forensically examine the obviously strange and discordant events of June 25th and beyond.
[/b]
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Their slogan at Sony officially is:
MAKE.BELIEVE
Believe that anything you can imagine, you can make real.
Do you think they care who believes what if obtained turnover is adjusting to their planned figures in the end?
Barnum's theories were not only used by Michael but by many PR specialists and psychologists. An example: what was a Tamagotchi good for? It was about playing "as if" you had a pet that you could not have in real life. In the end it was some ounces of plastic with a chip, a small mainboard and a battery inside. A Tamagotchi was able to control people's life just by making a noise. Isn't that really, really ridiculous? Nevertheless, more than 70,000,000 Tamagotchis were sold to date. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamagotchi
It does not matter what you believe or don't believe when purchasing music and supporting electronic devices e.g. Sony does not put extremely high energy in delivering clues to us to keep us "in line" within the hoax. It is us who decide to draw certain conclusions based on our pre-dispositions and previous conclusions.
The vaste majority of folks on the planet think - being in touch with exact the same (initial) information as us - that Michael Joseph Jackson died of cardiac arrest due to Propofol overdose.
At some point we decided to question sources, filter information and prefer several information channels vs. others. That does not make Sony or anybody else to be held accountable for this choice and for what we believe. Not even Michael is responsible for our beliefs and conclusions.
What Sony do is create fog and confusion for all alike - hoaxers or non-hoaxers as we have seen with the whoopla about the new album. That's all and it is a very clever overall PR strategy. Businesswise, hoaxers are not important at all and do not get a specific treatment.
Hoaxwise, they get A LOT of attention and goodies. But they don't come from Sony source IMO.
L.O.V.E.
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So whatever. I'm having a good time with this hoax and TS helps break up the down time. And it irritates me that haters perpetually feel the need to come here and troll the forum and try to stop me from having a good time. Like I'm some blind moron who lives in fantasy land and needs to be enlightened. 17 months of this crap and I grow weary. For the 456459745th time, non-believers should get an escort to the door.
I smell some seriously shady shit going on with this topic. All things considered, the usernames and the affiliations. Somethings up with this. I don't know what but something isn't right.
Oh and by the way, NO it's NOT an investigator's website... it's a DEATH HOAX investigators website. Look, I didn't name it, I just read the top of the page.
I applaud you so high Bec!!! This is exactly what I felt!!! We have had many non-believers on this forum who came here to create a mess btw the believers. I'm not saying Uranus is a non-believer, he can be or not BUT as I wrote before the timing of him making his first post was too obvious about his purpose. But this is my opinion for sure.
First of, if there're people here who are still not sure about MJ being alive or dead, we have a section for the beginners. I can offer you to take a look at that section first, especially before you jump to a conclusion and start to accuse people.
And I believe that we shouldn't spend more time on confused people because whatever we say, it is not going to satisfy their needs. It's more like they're expecting to be convinced that MJ is gone. And I can not believe how easily some forgot all of the things we have found till today. Did someone erase their minds? I don't know what happened to them really? And I can not say that I want to know lol
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Uranus (that's one heck of a username) I think the reason others are reacting negatively to your posts is simply down to timing and while I can absolutely get where you're coming from that TS could simply be stringing people along, providing "clues", waiting for people to interpret them and then picking one to redirect to, thus making it up as he goes along, that would imply he's either messing with us for personal pleasure or for sinister reasons. You seem convinced that being affiliated with Sony means sinister intentions, whereas many of us simply don't see what Sony has to gain by messing with a few thousand hoaxers. When I said the reaction from some to you is down to timing I meant that you just joined, having obviously read and formed opinions on the reactions to TS for quite a while, waiting till the questions surrounding his authenticity were raised and then diving in with grim warnings. Now not everyone here believes in TS and that's fine but why wait till all the commotion started to state this strong opinion, you've obviously had doubts about his intentions for a while. The fact that you seem so fixated on this and seem reluctant to discuss the bigger picture as to why it would be such a bad thing for him to be affiliated with Sony or other matters connected to the hoax raises red flags for many. The warnings you've given about not blindly following him have been stated by many of us here, and I doubt anyone is 100% sure who he is. Therefore many of us keep our objective hat on and decide how relevant each "clue" is/might be. This thing between you and some others is just going round in circles, either you believe TS is genuine or not, if you don't you don't have to read the redirects or the interpretations, nor worry that we're all being brainwashed by the "cult of TS/Sony". Sure every adventure is more thrilling when there's a shadowy bad guy pretending to be one of the good guys, but until TS starts using any influence he has in a negative way in my book he's still one of the good guys.
I can NOT say it any better!!! If my english was better, I would love to make a post like this. And if my feelings for the OP's time of posting allowed me to do too of course. But I 100000000% agree with you trustno1!!! Very well said.
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@bec Who said that MJ planned this hoax for 25 years? That's assuming again... We don't know what happened in Michael Jackson's life, nobody here has the truth, we can just speculate. OUR theories could be wrong, who knows?
Puff you asked Bec, but I wanted to add something. Did you start to believe in coincidences in this hoax? Because if you did so, nothing I will say can convince you the opposite. I only want to share this picture with you. But of course it means nothing if you believe that there're coincidences in this hoax and to me all clues can be just coincidences if you start to get them as coincidences.
History tour began in 1996 and Michael used this Spaceship 2040 which exactly points to his "death" date. And it makes 16 years from now. So even only this one shows that he was planning the hoax for a long long time ago.
(http://i54.tinypic.com/ka5rnq.jpg)
This hoax began before TS, right, but without him it wouldn't last so long. Look at the today redirect, it's not time yet to give an explanation? It's about a week of chaos and that is the only thing he could say? Sorry, but I personally don't buy it.
I have to disagree with you. Like you said, the hoax began before TS and even if TS was not here, we would have been searching for the clues etc. We haven't found the clues with the help of TS only, right? He helped us a lot, a LOT but we were here before he came and we would be still here if he wasn't. Any of us are only making the research on this forum and on this TS section. We're all over the internet, at the locations. So pls get rid of the idea of TS spoonfeeds us. Because he doesn't and that is the reason why he doesn't make updates when we NEED to. There's time for everything and patience is the key.
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I can NOT say it any better!!! If my english was better, I would love to make a post like this. And if my feelings for the OP's time of posting allowed me to do too of course. But I 100000000% agree with you trustno1!!! Very well said.
Thank You PureLove (and your English is fantastic, if you hadn't said that I would have thought it was your first language!). L.O.V.E to you. ;)
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History tour began in 1996 and Michael used this Spaceship 2040 which exactly points to his "death" date.
So do these dates in 2009:
12/19/2009
11/20/2009
10/21/2009
09/22/2009
08/23/2009
07/24/2009
05/26/2009
04/27/2009
03/28/2009
01/30/2009
Also, those who read up on numerology know it doesn't work like 6+25+2009=2040. It should be 6+2+5+2+0+0+9=24 -> 2+4=6.
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There's time for everything and patience is the key.
I don't agree... Coherence/Responsibility should be the key...
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Does anyone think for a second that if TS suddenly announced he was sick of all the speculation about his intentions and said "OK my real name is..." (insert any name from Marlon to Bubbles), that anyone would believe him anyway? No. Because we'd all need a lot more than just a name or a reassurance. Puff you want him to be coherent and responsible, that means answering all the recent questions and dancing to our tune. Ain't gonna happen. The way he's posted throughout this isn't going to change just because people are getting bored with the intrigue and have decided there are questionable motives. There have always been those who've suspected his intentions and there always will be, I don't think calling him out is going to work. Again it's a matter of thinking for ourselves and choosing whether or not to pay him any attention. Or rather deciding what parts of his posts to pay attention to.
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Does anyone think for a second that if TS suddenly announced he was sick of all the speculation about his intentions and said "OK my real name is..." (insert any name from Marlon to Bubbles), that anyone would believe him anyway? No. Because we'd all need a lot more than just a name or a reassurance. Puff you want him to be coherent and responsible, that means answering all the recent questions and dancing to our tune. Ain't gonna happen. The way he's posted throughout this isn't going to change just because people are getting bored with the intrigue and have decided there are questionable motives. There have always been those who've suspected his intentions and there always will be, I don't think calling him out is going to work. Again it's a matter of thinking for ourselves and choosing whether or not to pay him any attention. Or rather deciding what parts of his posts to pay attention to.
I agree. Calling TS out seems counter productive. I am certainly not bored with the intrigue, it fits right in with the whole mystery of the hoax because when it comes down to it, we don't know anything for sure. The only thing that I know for sure is my belief that Michael is alive and is watching, planning and waiting.
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History tour began in 1996 and Michael used this Spaceship 2040 which exactly points to his "death" date.
So do these dates in 2009:
12/19/2009
11/20/2009
10/21/2009
09/22/2009
08/23/2009
07/24/2009
05/26/2009
04/27/2009
03/28/2009
01/30/2009
Also, those who read up on numerology know it doesn't work like 6+25+2009=2040. It should be 6+2+5+2+0+0+9=24 -> 2+4=6.
But he didn't choose to "die" in those dates, he chose 6/25/2009. He could have chosen any of those dates too if they fit well with the other numerology part of the hoax. I don't think that I need to write them all once more. You know them very well.
And it is YOU who say that it doesn't work like 6+25+2009=2040 but it DOES work so well. And like you said, if you collect the numbers one by one it makes 6 and it has a sense because we know what 6 means in this hoax. It makes sense in both ways and it WORKS in both ways as well.
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Does anyone think for a second that if TS suddenly announced he was sick of all the speculation about his intentions and said "OK my real name is..." (insert any name from Marlon to Bubbles), that anyone would believe him anyway? No. Because we'd all need a lot more than just a name or a reassurance. Puff you want him to be coherent and responsible, that means answering all the recent questions and dancing to our tune. Ain't gonna happen. The way he's posted throughout this isn't going to change just because people are getting bored with the intrigue and have decided there are questionable motives. There have always been those who've suspected his intentions and there always will be, I don't think calling him out is going to work. Again it's a matter of thinking for ourselves and choosing whether or not to pay him any attention. Or rather deciding what parts of his posts to pay attention to.
No, we are not getting bored....we found some incoherences and in my opinion it's normal that he should give us some explanations. Just because he is leading the game doesn't mean that we should shut up and follow him blindly without asking him anything because it's not the right time to give us answers to specific questions.
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I can NOT say it any better!!! If my english was better, I would love to make a post like this. And if my feelings for the OP's time of posting allowed me to do too of course. But I 100000000% agree with you trustno1!!! Very well said.
Thank You PureLove (and your English is fantastic, if you hadn't said that I would have thought it was your first language!). L.O.V.E to you. ;)
awww thank you :oops: Sometimes I get so pissed at myself because I can not make the sentences like the way I want to make because of the lack of my english. It's hard to try to express yourself in another language. L.O.V.E to you too. HUGS. :)
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No, we are not getting bored....we found some incoherences and in my opinion it's normal that he should give us some explanations. Just because he is leading the game doesn't mean that we should shut up and follow him blindly without asking him anything because it's not the right time to give us answers to specific questions.
But you don't need to follow him. TS is not the only one that we have been finding clues from, is he? You can keep on doing your investigation without following TS if you find him unreliable.
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History tour began in 1996 and Michael used this Spaceship 2040 which exactly points to his "death" date.
So do these dates in 2009:
12/19/2009
11/20/2009
10/21/2009
09/22/2009
08/23/2009
07/24/2009
05/26/2009
04/27/2009
03/28/2009
01/30/2009
Also, those who read up on numerology know it doesn't work like 6+25+2009=2040. It should be 6+2+5+2+0+0+9=24 -> 2+4=6.
But he didn't choose to "die" in those dates, he chose 6/25/2009. He could have chosen any of those dates too if they fit well with the other numerology part of the hoax. I don't think that I need to write them all once more. You know them very well.
And it is YOU who say that it doesn't work like 6+25+2009=2040 but it DOES work so well. And like you said, if you collect the numbers one by one it makes 6 and it has a sense because we know what 6 means in this hoax. It makes sense in both ways and it WORKS in both ways as well.
Are you familiar with multicontextual research PureLove? If so, you would have known that there are countless events which hold numerology. Does that mean that all these events are planned..?
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No, we are not getting bored....we found some incoherences and in my opinion it's normal that he should give us some explanations. Just because he is leading the game doesn't mean that we should shut up and follow him blindly without asking him anything because it's not the right time to give us answers to specific questions.
But you don't need to follow him. TS is not the only one that we have been finding clues from, is he? You can keep on doing your investigation without following TS if you find him unreliable.
Well, PureLove I could say the same to you, no need to follow this thread if you don't like it, but you keep posting here.... I could make my mind about TS WHEN I'll get some explanations, 'till that moment I'll keep following everything and I'll keep digging into the TS story... Are you going to stop me..?
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Does anyone think for a second that if TS suddenly announced he was sick of all the speculation about his intentions and said "OK my real name is..." (insert any name from Marlon to Bubbles), that anyone would believe him anyway? No. Because we'd all need a lot more than just a name or a reassurance. Puff you want him to be coherent and responsible, that means answering all the recent questions and dancing to our tune. Ain't gonna happen. The way he's posted throughout this isn't going to change just because people are getting bored with the intrigue and have decided there are questionable motives. There have always been those who've suspected his intentions and there always will be, I don't think calling him out is going to work. Again it's a matter of thinking for ourselves and choosing whether or not to pay him any attention. Or rather deciding what parts of his posts to pay attention to.
No, we are not getting bored....we found some incoherences and in my opinion it's normal that he should give us some explanations. Just because he is leading the game doesn't mean that we should shut up and follow him blindly without asking him anything because it's not the right time to give us answers to specific questions.
This is exactly my point puff. You found some incoherences/inconsistensies. There have been more than just the recent ones. He said other stuff that went nowhere/didn't happen. This whole recent turmoil all stemmed from the Eliza thing, which was only one of numerous things he pointed to which didn't happen. So why all the fuss now and not then? And I think you're getting a bit confrontational with some, I wasn't aware you owned the thread? (Or do you?). All I said was if you think he's going to pander to a few people who "demand" answers I wouldn't go holding your breath. He could give you a detailed description of his "story" as you put it right down to what he had for breakfast, that doesn't mean you'd believe it. And rightly so. So what makes you think any reasoning he could give you would explain things to your satisfaction? If he confirmed he works for/with Sony we'd only have his word for it. If he said he doesn't we have the same problem. How can we have this proof?
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History tour began in 1996 and Michael used this Spaceship 2040 which exactly points to his "death" date.
So do these dates in 2009:
12/19/2009
11/20/2009
10/21/2009
09/22/2009
08/23/2009
07/24/2009
05/26/2009
04/27/2009
03/28/2009
01/30/2009
Also, those who read up on numerology know it doesn't work like 6+25+2009=2040. It should be 6+2+5+2+0+0+9=24 -> 2+4=6.
But he didn't choose to "die" in those dates, he chose 6/25/2009. He could have chosen any of those dates too if they fit well with the other numerology part of the hoax. I don't think that I need to write them all once more. You know them very well.
And it is YOU who say that it doesn't work like 6+25+2009=2040 but it DOES work so well. And like you said, if you collect the numbers one by one it makes 6 and it has a sense because we know what 6 means in this hoax. It makes sense in both ways and it WORKS in both ways as well.
Are you familiar with multicontextual research PureLove? If so, you would have known that there are countless events which hold numerology. Does that mean that all these events are planned..?
I would love to see those events and their dates Mo. As well as their possible relation with the hoax.
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Their slogan at Sony officially is:
MAKE.BELIEVE
Believe that anything you can imagine, you can make real.
Do you think they care who believes what if obtained turnover is adjusting to their planned figures in the end?
Barnum's theories were not only used by Michael but by many PR specialists and psychologists. An example: what was a Tamagotchi good for? It was about playing "as if" you had a pet that you could not have in real life. In the end it was some ounces of plastic with a chip, a small mainboard and a battery inside. A Tamagotchi was able to control people's life just by making a noise. Isn't that really, really ridiculous? Nevertheless, more than 70,000,000 Tamagotchis were sold to date. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamagotchi
It does not matter what you believe or don't believe when purchasing music and supporting electronic devices e.g. Sony does not put extremely high energy in delivering clues to us to keep us "in line" within the hoax. It is us who decide to draw certain conclusions based on our pre-dispositions and previous conclusions.
The vaste majority of folks on the planet think - being in touch with exact the same (initial) information as us - that Michael Joseph Jackson died of cardiac arrest due to Propofol overdose.
At some point we decided to question sources, filter information and prefer several information channels vs. others. That does not make Sony or anybody else to be held accountable for this choice and for what we believe. Not even Michael is responsible for our beliefs and conclusions.
What Sony do is create fog and confusion for all alike - hoaxers or non-hoaxers as we have seen with the whoopla about the new album. That's all and it is a very clever overall PR strategy. Businesswise, hoaxers are not important at all and do not get a specific treatment.
Hoaxwise, they get A LOT of attention and goodies. But they don't come from Sony source IMO.
L.O.V.E.
This post is very enlightening about what's going on and that it is our choice as what to believe. Although, I have to say that even if the hoax believers are not that many, the hoax rumour runs strong. The last two months I, alone, have noticed three references that MJ is alive through the media and I live thousands of miles away from the U.S. And this rumour spreads by hoax believers. All of my friends mock me about telling them that MJ may be alive, yet they know and they spread the rumour as well. So, I cannot be sure how much indifferent this situation would be to Sony in a commercial aspect. Yet, this is just a thought, without blaming them for spreading the hoax for commercial reasons. It is just a possiblity. And then comes *Mo*'s post to show again how a clue cannot be that much of a clue if we do examine it closely.
History tour began in 1996 and Michael used this Spaceship 2040 which exactly points to his "death" date.
So do these dates in 2009:
12/19/2009
11/20/2009
10/21/2009
09/22/2009
08/23/2009
07/24/2009
05/26/2009
04/27/2009
03/28/2009
01/30/2009
Also, those who read up on numerology know it doesn't work like 6+25+2009=2040. It should be 6+2+5+2+0+0+9=24 -> 2+4=6.
This thing, except for how a clue source can guide conclusions, suggests a more trustworthy way of examining clues and relating them to facts.
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Please, people, I would like us to stick in the conversation because there are some very interesting points made around here. I think that they could upgrade our means of investigation. Let's not transform this conversation to a vendetta between TS supporters and TS non-supporters.
L.O.V.E.
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No, we are not getting bored....we found some incoherences and in my opinion it's normal that he should give us some explanations. Just because he is leading the game doesn't mean that we should shut up and follow him blindly without asking him anything because it's not the right time to give us answers to specific questions.
But you don't need to follow him. TS is not the only one that we have been finding clues from, is he? You can keep on doing your investigation without following TS if you find him unreliable.
Well, PureLove I could say the same to you, no need to follow this thread if you don't like it, but you keep posting here.... I could make my mind about TS WHEN I'll get some explanations, 'till that moment I'll keep following everything and I'll keep digging into the TS story... Are you going to stop me..?
Calm down Puff. I didn't make that post in an angry mood or I wasn't blaming you or attacking you for anything. It's my choice to keep on writing to this post because it doesn't bother me to read other's opinions and sharing more here. I was just telling what else you could do. And definitely I'm not going to stop you for anything as I do not have the right to do that. It seemed like you were not satisfied with TS' behaviour about not posting an update and I was offering you another alternative, that's all.
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Does anyone think for a second that if TS suddenly announced he was sick of all the speculation about his intentions and said "OK my real name is..." (insert any name from Marlon to Bubbles), that anyone would believe him anyway? No. Because we'd all need a lot more than just a name or a reassurance. Puff you want him to be coherent and responsible, that means answering all the recent questions and dancing to our tune. Ain't gonna happen. The way he's posted throughout this isn't going to change just because people are getting bored with the intrigue and have decided there are questionable motives. There have always been those who've suspected his intentions and there always will be, I don't think calling him out is going to work. Again it's a matter of thinking for ourselves and choosing whether or not to pay him any attention. Or rather deciding what parts of his posts to pay attention to.
No, we are not getting bored....we found some incoherences and in my opinion it's normal that he should give us some explanations. Just because he is leading the game doesn't mean that we should shut up and follow him blindly without asking him anything because it's not the right time to give us answers to specific questions.
This is exactly my point puff. You found some incoherences/inconsistensies. There have been more than just the recent ones. He said other stuff that went nowhere/didn't happen. This whole recent turmoil all stemmed from the Eliza thing, which was only one of numerous things he pointed to which didn't happen. So why all the fuss now and not then? And I think you're getting a bit confrontational with some, I wasn't aware you owned the thread? (Or do you?). All I said was if you think he's going to pander to a few people who "demand" answers I wouldn't go holding your breath. He could give you a detailed description of his "story" as you put it right down to what he had for breakfast, that doesn't mean you'd believe it. And rightly so. So what makes you think any reasoning he could give you would explain things to your satisfaction? If he confirmed he works for/with Sony we'd only have his word for it. If he said he doesn't we have the same problem. How can we have this proof?
I own this thread..? I don't, that doesn't mean that I can't post my opinion in here... The fact is, he wrote a LOT of stuff about Eliza/Elvis/Linda, and the problem is that the story turned into something completely different from what he pictured in his update 6# and the 9/9/10 (TS wrote: "we now have the strongest scientific proofs that he really did fake his death—and in fact, he is still alive to this very day!!!!!!!! " while it now appears that there's no LEGAL evidence. TS "forgot" to mention that......) post led me to question EVERYTHING. Is it a problem...? I think it's human nature to question things, right..? And just because I'm not allowed to get an explanation doesn't mean I can't ask him anything.....
@PureLove
He can write whatever he wants, that is not my point and probably you don't get it
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That's exactly right but I think even if every single one of us asked him to clarify his intentions regarding the Eliza thing he probably still wouldn't respond. As I've said before in numerous threads I've always leaned towards him being genuine, not because of the Elvis stuff, the numerology or the bible references(anyone could have done that) but the predictions he made that either happened or were pretty close, leading to an assumption that he's affiliated with Sony. As someone who thinks Sony is in cahoots with Michael over all this I don't find that worrying. And he did say think for yourself, so maybe he threw in certain things to see if people did their homework or just blindly did what he told them to do. As I've always said, if it turns out I'm wrong and he is either a person who likes to mess with our heads or (in my opinion less likely) someone with sinister intentions trying to cover up something, I won't be devastated as it was my choice to believe in some of what he wrote. Hats off to the guy in either case, he did a fine job. I think the problem lies in people putting too much faith in any one person no matter who they might be. Even if he were proven to be on the wrong side I'd still be here because I don't think he's the main attraction in all of this.
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Oh and Puff I meant to say earlier...Happy Birthday! :D Hope you're having a good one in spite of all the differences of opinion going on!
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Happy Birthday ! Puff :)
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Happy Birthday ! Puff :)
Oh and Puff I meant to say earlier...Happy Birthday! :D Hope you're having a good one in spite of all the differences of opinion going on!
Thank you! :D
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Happy B-day!
Is your cat a message for all us? :lol:
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History tour began in 1996 and Michael used this Spaceship 2040 which exactly points to his "death" date.
So do these dates in 2009:
12/19/2009
11/20/2009
10/21/2009
09/22/2009
08/23/2009
07/24/2009
05/26/2009
04/27/2009
03/28/2009
01/30/2009
Also, those who read up on numerology know it doesn't work like 6+25+2009=2040. It should be 6+2+5+2+0+0+9=24 -> 2+4=6.
But he didn't choose to "die" in those dates, he chose 6/25/2009. He could have chosen any of those dates too if they fit well with the other numerology part of the hoax. I don't think that I need to write them all once more. You know them very well.
And it is YOU who say that it doesn't work like 6+25+2009=2040 but it DOES work so well. And like you said, if you collect the numbers one by one it makes 6 and it has a sense because we know what 6 means in this hoax. It makes sense in both ways and it WORKS in both ways as well.
Are you familiar with multicontextual research PureLove? If so, you would have known that there are countless events which hold numerology. Does that mean that all these events are planned..?
Guys, I think that multicontextual research is the answer to our investigation! I searched a bit about multicontextual logic. I don't know exactly how this works but I definetely know it deserves great research... It seems like not everything needs to be planned, but if you know how things work you can control the proccess and they evolve for you. I know my post is confusing, but I don't know that much and I am too excited to explain.
Thanks a lot *Mo*!
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Well, how would you develop the objective and subjective views Uranus?
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History tour began in 1996 and Michael used this Spaceship 2040 which exactly points to his "death" date.
So do these dates in 2009:
12/19/2009
11/20/2009
10/21/2009
09/22/2009
08/23/2009
07/24/2009
05/26/2009
04/27/2009
03/28/2009
01/30/2009
Also, those who read up on numerology know it doesn't work like 6+25+2009=2040. It should be 6+2+5+2+0+0+9=24 -> 2+4=6.
But he didn't choose to "die" in those dates, he chose 6/25/2009. He could have chosen any of those dates too if they fit well with the other numerology part of the hoax. I don't think that I need to write them all once more. You know them very well.
And it is YOU who say that it doesn't work like 6+25+2009=2040 but it DOES work so well. And like you said, if you collect the numbers one by one it makes 6 and it has a sense because we know what 6 means in this hoax. It makes sense in both ways and it WORKS in both ways as well.
Are you familiar with multicontextual research PureLove? If so, you would have known that there are countless events which hold numerology. Does that mean that all these events are planned..?
Guys, I think that multicontextual research is the answer to our investigation! I searched a bit about multicontextual logic. I don't know exactly how this works but I definetely know it deserves great research... It seems like not everything needs to be planned, but if you know how things work you can control the proccess and they evolve for you. I know my post is confusing, but I don't know that much and I am too excited to explain.
Thanks a lot *Mo*!
Well, it's not so easy, and you can't plan everything and you can't control everything.....I don't know if MJ is familiar with multicontextual research....
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Well, how would you develop the objective and subjective views Uranus?
I don't get it... :(
What do you mean?
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You said this is the answer to all our research which is a pretty sweeping statement, can you explain why and what exactly it gives us the answer to?
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You said this is the answer to all our research which is a pretty sweeping statement, can you explain why and what exactly it gives us the answer to?
I am sorry for that. I do not know too much about multicontextual logic, and Puff you are right that not everything can be controled. I was just too excited. But, I think we should search about it. I do not know much more than you. The only thing I know is that we should stick to thinking for ourselves. Sorry for disorientating the conversation.
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Well, how would you develop the objective and subjective views Uranus?
I don't get it... :(
What do you mean?
Well, you talked about multicontextual logic. That is why I asqued you.
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Uranus,
-What is your point, view, conclusion about TS?
-What, according to you, should we "find" to either debunk or support TS and regarding to what?
-Why on the first place did you call to our attention opening this thread?, what is the aim?
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I'm totally lost now as well. :shock: At least we've all stopped fighting now we're all confused beyond belief!
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I'm totally lost now as well. :shock: At least we've all stopped fighting now we're all confused beyond belief!
I see it as "fighting and not knowing about what" ;) , in other words, fighting for the sake of it.....
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Very wise words. It seems to have fizzled out for the moment though. I hope... ;)
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History tour began in 1996 and Michael used this Spaceship 2040 which exactly points to his "death" date.
So do these dates in 2009:
12/19/2009
11/20/2009
10/21/2009
09/22/2009
08/23/2009
07/24/2009
05/26/2009
04/27/2009
03/28/2009
01/30/2009
Also, those who read up on numerology know it doesn't work like 6+25+2009=2040. It should be 6+2+5+2+0+0+9=24 -> 2+4=6.
But he didn't choose to "die" in those dates, he chose 6/25/2009. He could have chosen any of those dates too if they fit well with the other numerology part of the hoax. I don't think that I need to write them all once more. You know them very well.
And it is YOU who say that it doesn't work like 6+25+2009=2040 but it DOES work so well. And like you said, if you collect the numbers one by one it makes 6 and it has a sense because we know what 6 means in this hoax. It makes sense in both ways and it WORKS in both ways as well.
Are you familiar with multicontextual research PureLove? If so, you would have known that there are countless events which hold numerology. Does that mean that all these events are planned..?
Guys, I think that multicontextual research is the answer to our investigation! I searched a bit about multicontextual logic. I don't know exactly how this works but I definetely know it deserves great research... It seems like not everything needs to be planned, but if you know how things work you can control the proccess and they evolve for you. I know my post is confusing, but I don't know that much and I am too excited to explain.
Thanks a lot *Mo*!
Well, it's not so easy, and you can't plan everything and you can't control everything.....I don't know if MJ is familiar with multicontextual research....
Indeed, it's not so easy, and searching 'a bit' about multicontextual logic when one knows nothing about it usually results in more confusion instead of bringing clarity. That is why I don't understand your statement at all Uranus, because it takes quite some time to "get the point" of multicontextual research.
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Multicontextual research is a research based in multy-context :geek: ...or something like that, but is a search eeeeeh! and whitin a context :ugeek:
(http://im-smiley.com/imgs/school/lesson.gif)
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8-)
viewtopic.php?f=0&t=14058&p=234443#p234443 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=0&t=14058&p=234443#p234443)
I don't think TS has a problem with sincere questions and objections.
And let me make it clear that I don’t mind sincere criticism, because truth can stand up to questions and objections—the truth will prevail! The problem is when people make empty accusations, with no evidence, such as “TS is nonsense”; statements like this with no evidence are useless, and I won’t even try to respond to them.
The silence of TS is understood by the above statement. If the statements without any evidence are useless he already told us he won't respond.
Please, people, I would like us to stick in the conversation because there are some very interesting points made around here. I think that they could upgrade our means of investigation. Let's not transform this conversation to a vendetta between TS supporters and TS non-supporters.
L.O.V.E.
Passing the test does not mean gullibly believing anything and everything that TS says, merely because TS is the one who says it; you have always been asked to verify the evidence for yourself, and debunk it if you can, etc. However, those who refuse anything and everything that TS says, merely because TS is the one who says it—regardless of any and all evidence that has never yet been debunked—they are not at the A+ level on the report card! :lol:
There are two other major areas of TS criticism. The first complaint is that TMZ and TS are just playing around; and the second complaint is that TS return/bam predictions have not come true
However, although the critics will no doubt be eager to use this reasoning as soon as summer is over, there is one minor problem with this reasoning—and that problem is the following list of the others who would also have to be fake, using the same basic reasoning: Jermaine, 5 Brothers, TMZ, Paris, Ortega, Janet, and even MJ himself!
However, if we wait till the public knows: nobody will pay attention to us then, because everybody will know by then from the mainstream media. If we rattle cages now: then when it comes out in public, they will be back to find out how we knew BEFORE it came out publicly! Then they will be much more ready to listen to the rest of the message!
Although, I have to say that even if the hoax believers are not that many, the hoax rumour runs strong. The last two months I, alone, have noticed three references that MJ is alive through the media and I live thousands of miles away from the U.S. And this rumour spreads by hoax believers. All of my friends mock me about telling them that MJ may be alive, yet they know and they spread the rumour as well. So, I cannot be sure how much indifferent this situation would be to Sony in a commercial aspect. Yet, this is just a thought, without blaming them for spreading the hoax for commercial reasons. It is just a possiblity.
That was good info to know. The seed has been planted and is now growing. I do hope you didn't take offense to how I read the name you chose. I know what the name is from and even the name when referring to the planet I still giggle. It is a silly thing.
I have no problem with you wanting to have a genuine conversation of things you are unsure of. All of us at one point have been unsure of things. We all at one point needed a guide, someone with patience to teach us. We didn't come to the forum in full knowledge like those who were here before us.
That is what I am having a problem with. What makes someone a troll? What makes someone a hater? When can you intelligently see the difference between a troll and someone who genuinely needs some help understanding the "hoax"?
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15180 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15180)
That is just one example of how easily people go for the trolls. Then when someone like Uranus comes here to begin this journey of investigating he is automatically told to get lost. He is told he is a hater. He is told he can't be welcomed. Intelligently discern the difference betwen a troll and a geniune new believer.
Time in observing a person and their words will always tell you what their true motivation is and what they are here for.
Is this an exclusive club now? Is this club only for believers? Is this club now discriminating and saying non-believers should be escorted to the door because they are needing some answers from the veteran "hoaxers"? This "hoax" wasn't created to just entertain certain individuals and if it interrupts their fun then the person should be tossed out.
Isn't it the job of Michael's army of L.O.V.E. to be patient and help the new believers? I do not see this happening. I see many talk about how wonderful Michael is, how he didn't let what happened to him make him bitter. I see people talking about how this "hoax" was created to be about love and then turn around in the same breath and tell a new believer to get lost.
How is that being an example of Michael or an example of love?
[youtube:1s5xgwon]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaDlfODoaEE[/youtube:1s5xgwon]Actually, there are many other wrong theories out there; but I won’t go into them now. I have already gone into great lengths on the most important aspects: the main reasons for the hoax, and the strongest evidences that this is a hoax (not accident, murder, or suicide).
viewtopic.php?f=72&t=9994&p=168361#p168361 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=9994&p=168361#p168361)
There are still many hoax believers on MJDHI and other forums, who don’t read the updates and/or don’t think that NWO & EOW is MJ’s message. If we keep waiting for them to inform themselves, they probably never will. But those who do read these updates can help, if you want to: will you be there? If so, read on.
You can help both before and after bamsday. This applies to all forums out there, not just MJDHI. It probably won’t help to just ask others to read the updates; many will not, because they are long and/or other reasons. But you can be familiar with the updates; and then you can be ready with the right questions and/or answers, whenever something related is discussed in any thread.
You can also kindly remind them that the issue is what MJ believes, and his message; others are free to have their own beliefs, but the hoax forums are about MJ and his reasons for the hoax. And please do not get into unkind arguments with anyone; remember, it’s all for L.O.V.E. Preparing for bamsday means understanding the message, helping others to understand it, and most of all: living the L.O.V.E. yourself!
[youtube:1s5xgwon]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cv1T_EJsVXc&feature=related[/youtube:1s5xgwon]
My daughter and I watched TII again last night. I noticed that Michael only sang Earth song ALL the way through. The other songs were just snippets. What does that say? To me the objective of Michael was to make sure everyone heard that song. That is the awareness I would think he is referring to when he said that's why he writes those kind of songs. Be the change we want to see in the world. It starts with looking in the mirror at our own actions. So in saying all that I will take back what I wrote to Uranus before when I said he was focusing on the simple minded stuff. Who am I to say what is simple minded or not.
Side note: In TII during Michael's Billie Jean scene when the music stops and he starts to do just the dance moves at the start when there is only a beat he says: "Keep Watching 3 times" lol
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The fact that TS keeps his identity secret is a bit strange…
In one of his/her posts he/she said that even if he/she revealed his/her identity, we wouldn’t believe him/her and that there was no point doing that. Well, we have passed through much more difficult matters than the identity of a person and we have learned when to beLIEve and when not to. As to whether knowing the identity of your major informer is necessary or not, the answer is absolutely yes. The information given on a subject is a most important part of understanding the facts, but the identity of the source of this information is equally important. This is because considering something as a clue just because someone claims it to be a clue, can control and direct your search and conclusion even if you have an excellent ability of judging.
Some people say that TS’s identity should remain secret because if he/she is someone near the MJ camp everyone will believe him/her and follow him/her without judging and acting on their own will, while if he/she has no close connection to the MJ camp everyone will reject him/her and stop believing him/her. Well, this does not stand as an excuse at all. We do not need communicational tricks to form our opinions and the power of someone’s words should stand only for what his/her words are and not for how he/she promotes them. For example, when you say “prejudice is ignorance”, that idea can stand on its own despite who said it or how he/she promoted him/herself. After all, we can judge, criticize and think for ourselves in order to choose who we listen to and who we not, and this is the only way to support MJ and those who strive for humanity’s sake.
Let me point out something straight ahead… If TS’s revealed his/her identity Michael would definitely not be in danger. MJ’s supposed enemies are very powerful and have all the means necessary to achieve their goals. If MJ is a threat to them they would do everything possible to stop him. I don’t think that anyone argues whether those building the New World Order are capable of espionage or not. Actually they are capable of far more terrible things. So, if we have noticed that Michael is alive and plans to fight them, they have definitely noticed it too. And if TS is holding key information about MJ, considering that his/her acts via the internet are enough for them to detect him/her, he/she would have been caught by them by now. Moreover, MJ would never jeopardize his mission giving valuable information about it to someone that could be detected by his enemies and putting him/her in danger. So, the conclusion of this is that TS cannot have key information that put Michael’s life in danger.
As far as TS’s secrecy about his/her identity is concerned, I tend to believe that his/her connection to Sony is far closer than he/she has been willing to admit until now. Although, this is not necessarily bad, it is a bit suspicious. My search in the internet has provided some interesting information.
The fact that TS had always much information about MJ and his CD’s and the “This IS It” DVD before this information was available to anyone else can show a relation to Sony without much explanation and search.
TS also had always much information about TMZ. He/ She seemed to predict when they would publish specific subjects, have information from the inside and have knowledge of specific data and events before they would become known and happen, such as MJ police files and Murray’s trials. This can also suggest a connection to Sony, because Sony collaborates with TMZ, as the creator of a browser for mobile phones to establish connection to the TMZ channel and provide mobile phone users with access to TMZ news. That means that someone inside Sony can have TMZ information before it is published. Here is a link about that:
http://www.mobilemarketer.com/cms/news/media/756.html (http://www.mobilemarketer.com/cms/news/media/756.html)
Moreover, TS successfully predicted a relation to the 2012 film with the MJ hoax, before the film was available in the cinemas and generally in the public. As we know the major character’s name was Jackson. This suggests a relation between TS and Sony as well. The film was distributed by Columbia Pictures, which is owned by Sony. The related web pages are in the following link:
1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_(film (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_(film))
2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Pictures (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Pictures)
Finally, about the time that TS started his/her redirects(October 2009), Sony had shortly before announced that they would start the project "This Is Also It" due to the success of "This Is It", which would be about other dead starts and similar to "This IS It". They claimed this investment to be most profitable. One of the first sites to announce that was "The Huffington Post", which is a site used by TS for his/her clues. The mentioned article about the announcement is on the following link:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-boro ... 37576.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-borowitz/sony-to-release-this-is-i_b_337576.html)
This set of coincidences closely related to TS, statistically strongly suggests that TS is very close to the Sony camp. Note that my search was very rapid, which means that many more things can be found about TS’s relation to Sony, with a better and more thorough search.
All in all, TS's identity is not important to what we think or believe about Michael, or it is not more important than anyone else's identity. However, the fact that Sony profits from MJ and that they have abused him in the past raises concerns. The fact that those who have said that MJ is alive, such as Akon, Riley and Eros Ramazzotti are related to Sony and the first two profit from the new album’s sales, raises concerns as well. And I strongly believe that it is our right to know the source of our information, since we fight equally to TS and everyone else here, for more than a year now.
I neither blame nor accuse, I only suggest caution, awareness and thinking for ourselves.
I've read through the forums before and have seen people question the validity of TS and their posts but they were either quickly shunned away, banned or made to look foolish.
I would like to know who they are and what they do but until the information can prove to be skeptical, I will still follow the posts. Like Souza said, people need to stop following him like sheep and think.
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Mutlicontextual.... I think that BeLIEving or not beLIEving makes all the difference.
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That was good info to know. The seed has been planted and is now growing. I do hope you didn't take offense to how I read the name you chose. I know what the name is from and even the name when referring to the planet I still giggle. It is a silly thing.
I have no problem with you wanting to have a genuine conversation of things you are unsure of. All of us at one point have been unsure of things. We all at one point needed a guide, someone with patience to teach us. We didn't come to the forum in full knowledge like those who were here before us.
That is what I am having a problem with. What makes someone a troll? What makes someone a hater? When can you intelligently see the difference between a troll and someone who genuinely needs some help understanding the "hoax"?
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15180 (http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15180)
That is just one example of how easily people go for the trolls. Then when someone like Uranus comes here to begin this journey of investigating he is automatically told to get lost. He is told he is a hater. He is told he can't be welcomed. Intelligently discern the difference betwen a troll and a geniune new believer.
Time in observing a person and their words will always tell you what their true motivation is and what they are here for.
:)
Thank you for your support and your reasonable words!
The truth is that I am not that much of a new member here, I was just not active. For more than a year I've been watching(not blindly but always being mindful about them) daily the redirects and some of the threads in this forum without having a username and without making posts. So, I am aware of most of the things having been said and I have formed my own opinion.
I respect your opinions and everyone else's. But, our common goal is to find out what happened. This article aimed exactly at that point, not at which opinion is correct and which is not. How to examine the clues or how to find them is the point and perhaps reexamining. TS is part of our investigation, so whether we accept it or not the investigation is connected to him/her no matter what his/her motives are. And as I have stated before:
I don't like that this is the example that I use, but it is the fresher example in my memory. TIAI 11/24, PureLove's post.
Firstly, I want to state that I respect PureLove's opinion, although I disagree with it.
Now... During the period TS made this redirect there was a question raised in this forum. When people learned about his/her redirect started making suggestions about what he/she wanted to mean. This post was long. Could anyone understand what he/she meant with it? No, most people proposed something different. But, this is not the main point. All attention was concentrated in this post. In the question "why not in any other post?" most people answer "because it was the most relevant". But this is not the right answer. The right answer is that this was the most suitable redirect for TS, whether it was made by good purpose or bad purpose. So, by saying that the redirects suitable to TS's purposes are the relevant ones is a great problem, since TS's purpose is unknown.
And then follows your beautiful answer about reality and illusion. :)
But, the reason for this article is contained up above. And that's all. ;)
L.O.V.E.
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He says keep watyching there?! I must go and see with my own eyes ...
I know he says keep wathing at the beggining of the trailer for TII
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I would be glad if new believers would come here.......
Unfortunately they don't.
Only the ones who already believed come here
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I've just watched Billie Jean TII performance again and yes !!!
He's saying "keep watchin'..." 3 times , I can't believe this.
Back had to be Michael :D I'm so nervous, I can't believe this.
And someone else here is Michael too, I think. Michael is here, I think Michael is here..... or at least Back is here.... the best proof he is alive and well :P
OK, maybe I lost it completely, but why else would he say Keep watchin'?! My head will explode some day :roll:
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Now I can't stop watching Billie Jean in TII, this 'drug-addict" is doing such a great show :lol:
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Ok. My turn. Now that everyone is done throwing things... :?
I am always amazed when fights break out over the miscellaneous. As for me, I don't give one flying fish if I am observed being spoonfed! Especially when my "feeder" has understanding of complex knowledge I don't have yet, impeccable logic, and the patience 8-) to do this for me. :D To be sure, it will be scrutinized and digested just as diligently as information I feed myself, but there is NO shame in admitting one requires a teacher, or in sitting at his feet!
For now, it doesn't matter who TS really is. Can we just enjoy the mystery, and use the temporary blind he is hiding behind, to simply focus on the content of his "teaching"/message? He said it, and someone here said it too.
I believe the message would eventually reveal any ulterior the motive, anyway, so his motives shouldn't be the main focus either. And talk about swallowing things whole without examination, you guys KNOW, if he were MJ, that would mostly be the case, as alas, our King can say or do no wrong... :lol:
He told us that if he did tell us who he is, we would not even believe him, and he could be right. :? All hell would break loose if he said he was another genius, say...MJ's twin brother. :shock: And there would be 99 pages of troll alerts and bashings, over the kindness of such a GIFT "trespassing" here, on "our" :x forum. I think people are going to regret how they have treated those who are revealed to be MJ's loved ones here. Just saying. :|
I'm not a complete dimwit, but, I have to admit some of the subjects TS has brought to the forefront, I would have never thought to connect with Michael Jackson. I NEEDED help to see this connection. Now I see. At least some serious possibility.
If it all proves to be a wild ride, no harm no foul. Sheeeesh. It is not the end of the world, I simply misjudged error as truth, got punked (in an ARG, :!: btw, doi! ;) ;) :roll: ) by another magician. My money and stuff is safe. My virtue and self-respect is intact. Health continues. How have I been harmed? Practice makes perfect, I'll do better next time. Live and learn, not live and claw each other up. Amongst other things, we are supposed to enjoy this, and each other, I beLIEve... :)
Admit it, we NEEDED some guidance, SOME anchoring, here. Certain sharp folk hit upon the truth of some of the situations right away, and never wavered. But, then scary rumors came from outer space (or the media--same thing, alien "intelligence") and all the others were crying again, like a nursery full of newborns. TS seems to be a steadying influence, offering some direction, and a person of intrigue, himself.
Even if the secret motive of TS is to commandeer The REAL Greatest Show On Earth, like some ego maniac with no life of his own, we all kinda sorta beLIEve MJ is still alive, and in control---right?
Or is that what people are afraid of? That we have been hijacked, and all is lost??? :o
If MJ lives, it is only a matter of time before he cleans this interloper's clock! After 16 months, (if I didn't know better, through months and months of research) I would say, either the King is dead, or else, he is alive, and TS is approved or even APPOINTED by MJ, to say exactly what he has said to us.
I prefer to think that "TS" stands for no one's actual given name. I think it means "The Scholar" 8-) 8-) 8-) I hope it does. I love that. :)
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Its her: I cannot begin to tell you how much I love your above post! Thank you.
I am fairly new to all this, compared to many of you. I have from the start of Michael's disappearance thought that things might be "off"- but until looking into things deeper after reading Pearl Jr's book this winter, I had no clue how organized all this seems to be. Reading the threads here and the different opinions and theories of posters is valuable, but TS's posts were the organizing guide, for lack of a better word.
Through my profession and my training, I have always been taught to take information and then to assess if I find it valuable, truthful, biased etc- so, just because we have This Source (T.S) of information does not mean we cannot decide for ourselves what we make of the information. As a matter of fact, he/she points that out numerous times.
One of the points is to evaluate messages independent of the identity of the person delivering it- something we are not used to. If you think about it, we always consider the source which is not a bad practice in itself, but it can lead to biased information. Let's say you trust ABC news, but not Fox news: would you not then believe anything coming from one, but discard the other? Now, what if Fox actually reported something true- you might miss it. Or, if ABC picked up something fake- then you would be duped, if you only go by the source and NOT the message itself.
For me, I am not a numbers person. But after reading TS posts re proof for the hoax and against murder I learned some invaluable information that I had not considered before (the social scientist part of me has over the years totally overruled the mathematical part… )- and it makes sense. Now, do I think that what I read is absolute truth? No, but it sure makes sense.
So, my attitude is skeptical optimism. It seems that TS has not led us astray or tried to influence us in in any undue way. Like Its her said, we ourselves make the choice to believe or not believe – therefore if we are duped, it is based on a personal choice each of us made. No one MADE US do it. It’s called personal freedom of choice (and lets be happy we have it!)- let’s all be adults and accept this responsibility.
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Its her: I cannot begin to tell you how much I love your above post! Thank you.
I am fairly new to all this, compared to many of you. I have from the start of Michael's disappearance thought that things might be "off"- but until looking into things deeper after reading Pearl Jr's book this winter, I had no clue how organized all this seems to be. Reading the threads here and the different opinions and theories of posters is valuable, but TS's posts were the organizing guide, for lack of a better word.
Through my profession and my training, I have always been taught to take information and then to assess if I find it valuable, truthful, biased etc- so, just because we have This Source (T.S) of information does not mean we cannot decide for ourselves what we make of the information. As a matter of fact, he/she points that out numerous times.
One of the points is to evaluate messages independent of the identity of the person delivering it- something we are not used to. If you think about it, we always consider the source which is not a bad practice in itself, but it can lead to biased information. Let's say you trust ABC news, but not Fox news: would you not then believe anything coming from one, but discard the other? Now, what if Fox actually reported something true- you might miss it. Or, if ABC picked up something fake- then you would be duped, if you only go by the source and NOT the message itself.
For me, I am not a numbers person. But after reading TS posts re proof for the hoax and against murder I learned some invaluable information that I had not considered before (the social scientist part of me has over the years totally overruled the mathematical part… )- and it makes sense. Now, do I think that what I read is absolute truth? No, but it sure makes sense.
So, my attitude is skeptical optimism. It seems that TS has not led us astray or tried to influence us in in any undue way. Like Its her said, we ourselves make the choice to believe or not believe – therefore if we are duped, it is based on a personal choice each of us made. No one MADE US do it. It’s called personal freedom of choice (and lets be happy we have it!)- let’s all be adults and accept this responsibility.
Well, thank you! And you are welcome. What blesses me about your post is that I can feel you are becoming as manic as the rest of us, as we discover new things on this Forum. :!: Interestingly enough, I thought of your user name as a nice tame bowl of oil burning steadily, peacefully, for all time; but NOW I feel like you've begun to run, and dance around with a blazing torch! It is great! I love it. :D Investigating and studying the Truth about Michael Jackson and his Message here, does tend to do that to people! 8-) :lol: :lol: And, you are SO right; we need to consider the source---but only after we have considered the facts brought forth by the source. It has been too easy to make snap judgments based only on source. Well said!!
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I was just thinking what TS can stand for...TS can stand for a lot of things these are just a few;
The Sign (to do with Prince's sign)
The Secret or Top Secret (Secret of the hoax)
The Script or The Set (MJ's movie)
Third Street (CM is always seen at Third Street Promenade in Santa Monica...it seems that's where all the filming or stage is set)
Tupac Shakur (doubt it is though...he probably can't even write a post without swearing :lol: )
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The Subject, Time Study, Time Secrets, The Scarecrow, Twenty Seven, Thirty Seven. Tea Spoon, The Smartass. Who knows! TS can mean anything. :lol:
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I was just thinking what TS can stand for...TS can stand for a lot of things these are just a few;
The Sign (to do with Prince's sign)
The Secret or Top Secret (Secret of the hoax)
The Script or The Set (MJ's movie)
Third Street (CM is always seen at Third Street Promenade in Santa Monica...it seems that's where all the filming or stage is set)
Tupac Shakur (doubt it is though...he probably can't even write a post without swearing :lol: )
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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i thought that ts had already ended a post with what it stood for a while back. seems like it was the sign. was i imagining things again :? :( :oops:
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Well, thank you! And you are welcome. What blesses me about your post is that I can feel you are becoming as manic as the rest of us, as we discover new things on this Forum. :!: Interestingly enough, I thought of your user name as a nice tame bowl of oil burning steadily, peacefully, for all time; but NOW I feel like you've begun to run, and dance around with a blazing torch! It is great! I love it. :D Investigating and studying the Truth about Michael Jackson and his Message here, does tend to do that to people! 8-) :lol: :lol: And, you are SO right; we need to consider the source---but only after we have considered the facts brought forth by the source. It has been too easy to make snap judgments based only on source. Well said!!
Thank you! LOL- I FEEL like I am running with a blazing torch- trying to not set my house or my hair on fire as I gain speed.
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Thank you! LOL- I FEEL like I am running with a blazing torch- trying to not set my house or my hair on fire as I gain speed.
:o :lol: :lol: I know that dance! :lol:
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Thank you! LOL- I FEEL like I am running with a blazing torch- trying to not set my house or my hair on fire as I gain speed.
:o :lol: :lol: I know that dance! :lol:
:lol:
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THE SUNFLOVER...
;) ;)
but i like The Sourse - much close to reality.