Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators
Hoax Investigation => General Hoax Investigation => General Hoax Talk => Topic started by: DancingTheDream on September 09, 2010, 04:34:41 PM
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Please read all of this blog:
http://michaelsguardian.blogspot.com (http://michaelsguardian.blogspot.com)
Ive copied and pasted a bit of it:
What happened to "THE truth"?
What does this mean? Does this sound a little particularly too “Rev. Jim Jones-ish” to you? Color me disgusted but I have no desire to follow someone to the jungles of Guyana to drink poison. True I need to lose a little weight, but there are healthier ways to do it.
Far be it from me to ever tell someone what they can and cannot allow on their page. But I am also free to disagree with it. And since I did disagree with it, I felt that being a “Friend of Karen” would be a bit hypocritical if I did not trust her or had misgivings about her.
I have been emailed and called all day today about “what was going on!!!” (Don’t you people have anything better to do? LOL! It's a holiday for crying out loud!) and many of the questions I was emailed and called about were whether or not I was a “hoaxer”.
I was very clear on my blog what I believe in that particular blog post, and that is that no piece of evidence or information gets tossed just because someone else doesn't want me to look at and analyze it. One of the biggest disagreements I have had with regard to this “Believer-Hoaxer” bashing is that the evidence is very compelling. What good would it do to follow it? How would this possibly help Michael?
That’s just it. It doesn't matter what I believe. The point of even bringing up a possibility that Michael is alive in the first place is for us to take a look at what we are doing, because potentially innocent people are getting "convicted" in public opinion because of heightened emotions and this is turning into a witch hunt.
Isn't that a little too familiar with what happened to someone we loved in 2005???
We Don’t want to do this again
Sammy De Gosson –
I deleted myself from her page also because yesterday (busy day!), I was alerted to a thread concerning the implication of Jermaine Jackson in Michael’s death.
This is what I had copied, along with a few of the comments.
Samantha De Gosson: Dr. Thome Thome was once married to Randy Phillip's sister, Janet Phillips. Jermaine's wife is Thome Thome's cousin. The more you research the links between all parties involved in his murder, the more sickening and apparent it becomes.
While Samantha is free to speculate, just as I am, the comments that followed this wall post are disturbing and this has been a pattern over there. I would never, ever implicate someone in a crime on the sole information that they had a common inlaw.
On this blog, I have entertained everyone’s views regardless of whether they agreed with me or not. Sometimes I didn’t LIKE IT but I still respected it.
This does not mean that either Samantha or Karen have to be as accommodating on their pages or blogs. They don’t. But I cannot be a “friend” on their pages if I have misgivings about them, so I deleted myself. These is not the only issues I have with them but they’ve added up and I just think that it is best this way.
I have one question I am going to ask you (any of you) to answer, because this has me really disturbed. Please no fighting, just discussion. I want you to know why I do have misgivings about them.
If the Jackson family suspects AEG, Phillips or Ortega in the death of Michael Jackson, then someone please explain to me why both Phillips and Ortega were invited to the private funeral for family and friends, and neither Karen nor MLB were not?
(We answered this question with THIS video She was there.
If Karen is working with the Jackson family then why have there been no pictures at all of Karen with any of the family members of the Jacksons since the date of Michael’s death? It’s been 14 months.
If Samantha DeGosson was as close to Michael, Michael’s children and had the confidence of Michael, following him for the last 15 years, why has she been able to produce only one picture of her and Michael together, which to be honest, looks like a very creative photo shopped piece of work?
One photo in 15 years? That’s it?
These are the questions I have.
You are free to answer them, you are free to disagree with me, but any abusive posts will be deleted.
One other thing I want to point out. All this began to break out right after I posted that blog about the inconsistencies within the Jackson camp. I’m at this point not so sure they are indeed with the Jackson camp.
I am not looking for a battle with Karen of Samantha, but I am going to point out what bothers me about them in hopes that someone can convince me I am wrong . . . because in all honesty I want to be wrong on this.
Please be respectful, but tell me something.
There have been a slew of blogs put out about AEG just since the last two days, like I said . . . I guess quite a few people wanted to detract from that blog post about the inconsistencies.
It is times like these that tell me that the truth is RIGHT THERE. The more you get piled on, the bigger threat you are to those who don’t want you near the truth. That is what keeps me going.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_cudiB-AbcIs/TIMjU3KxvfI/AAAAAAAABEw/L1z0MvGrxys/s1600/MJ+2009+-+1.jpg)
THIS HAS MADE ME GO COLD.. LET ME EXPLAIN WHY -
I remember having lengthy conversations with my friend about these "last" pictures and i commented on how Michael was seemingly behind all the people in the pictures. Every single one, Michael's face is behind the other person, like he is hiding.
I thought at the time that maybe MJ was shy and ill and thats why these photos look odd.. but now it seems they are FAKE... and it seems right to me. I think Sammy and Karen are fake and that they are being paid to say their story.
I will try and post all the other photos i have of this period.. other fan photos. May take a while as i have so many MJ photos, if anyone else has them please post here so we can compare.
This is major breakthrough.. makes sense to me... the hoax is more alive to me now then it was an hour ago. :lol: Things dont make sense!!!
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Can those people stop the drama and focus on important things?
'Michael' is hiding on those recent pics because he doesn't really look that much like himself (i.e. those are doubles).
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Can those people stop the drama and focus on important things?
'Michael' is hiding on those recent pics because he doesn't really look that much like himself (i.e. those are doubles).
Maybe.. or maybe the photos are fake and Sam never actually met him and was not close to him as she claims.
Im trying to find the other photos.. its always the same side of his face and in the same manner... they all look alike in terms of poses, etc.
What if Sony (or someone else) is paying Sam and Karen to keep the hoax under wraps? What if they are being paid to say that MJ was unhappy and ill and taking drugs... hmmm.. i do find it interesting.
Sam and Karens friendship has always seemed most odd to me and im sure there is a reason behind it.
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hmmm I saw this pic with Samantha long time ago and didn't think about. But now... it seems photoshopped because her head is bigger than Michaels, this makes no sense and his hand on her back looks strange.
Gosh I hate Photoshop (except Gella creates wunderful pics :lol: ), you can never trust a picture anymore :cry:
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hmmm I saw this pic with Samantha long time ago and didn't think about. But now... it seems photoshopped because her head is bigger than Michaels, this makes no sense and his hand on her back looks strange.
Gosh I hate Photoshop (except Gella creates wunderful pics :lol: ), you can never trust a picture anymore :cry:
What if the whole thing is a lie... what if Sam has lied about meeting MJ.. about how MJ told her he didnt want to do 50 shows... maybe she has lied about him looking ill and thin....
What if she is being paid to say these lies to make the death look more believable... to take the heat off certain people... to add to the confusion? And this would explain her sudden friendship with Karen Faye, which has never made sense to me.
If we can prove this is photoshop, then we can prove Sam has lied and that would prove all her stories and anecdotes about MJs final days are a lie. :shock:
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Weel, you can be on that pic as well if you want to ;)
http://www.faceinhole.com/es/create/mic ... 8a9ecbb05/ (http://www.faceinhole.com/es/create/michael-jackson-and-fan/4024cc4f-921b-496e-80e9-5d98a9ecbb05/)
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These pictures have been discussed back in 2009:
http://mjkit.forumotion.net/all-odd-thi ... -t2926.htm (http://mjkit.forumotion.net/all-odd-things-f8/this-is-not-it-is-a-strange-website-very-strange-t2926.htm)
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These pictures have been discussed back in 2009:
http://mjkit.forumotion.net/all-odd-thi ... -t2926.htm (http://mjkit.forumotion.net/all-odd-things-f8/this-is-not-it-is-a-strange-website-very-strange-t2926.htm)
YES! Thanks.. this is what i need. See what i mean about MJ hiding his face?
(http://www.this-is-not-it.com/images/stories/general/TalinMJ.jpg)
(http://i38.tinypic.com/34y4utt.jpg)
(http://i35.tinypic.com/1z3751h.jpg)
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Yeah, because it's not MJ...
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What if the whole thing is a lie... what if Sam has lied about meeting MJ.. about how MJ told her he didnt want to do 50 shows... maybe she has lied about him looking ill and thin....
What if she is being paid to say these lies to make the death look more believable... to take the heat off certain people... to add to the confusion? And this would explain her sudden friendship with Karen Faye, which has never made sense to me.
If we can prove this is photoshop, then we can prove Sam has lied and that would prove all her stories and anecdotes about MJs final days are a lie. :shock:
I think she lied. I don't believe Michael told her he didn't wanna make the shows. I believe in the dancers, in the team of TII, who *all* said he was well and enthusiastic.
But I don't get it - WHY??! For me Karen and TINI feel guilty because they think they couldn't "save" him and thats why they are beating everyone with their hating tirades. I never thought about Sony or anyone else could pay them for this... hm. It's quite interesting, I have to think about it - maybe I will get the foggy clouds out of my head :?
ForstAMoon: Fantastic find. Sam, go home. I never believed in what you say about Mike and now... :lol:
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To me looks like MJ 100%
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To me looks like MJ 100%
Ok.. but are the photos real? Or photoshopped? I wish i knew someone who is an expert of Photoshop as i dont have a clue.
Also found this one:
(http://www.this-is-not-it.com/images/stories/general/Marika20090611.jpg)
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I am getting co fused are the above pictures photoshoped I'd have I miss understood if they are fake they are good
I mentioned before about Karen saying michael liked samantha and she realized this when she found her photo in his dressing room
She is labouring the point but then I read michael called her flea
But anyway I see what you mean they could be doing this for him to help the hoax
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I am getting co fused are the above pictures photoshoped I'd have I miss understood if they are fake they are good
I mentioned before about Karen saying michael liked samantha and she realized this when she found her photo in his dressing room
She is labouring the point but then I read michael called her flea
But anyway I see what you mean they could be doing this for him to help the hoax
Now.. this makes no sense to me.
Karen was Michaels make up artist.. so why would Karen only find and see these supposed photos of Sam on his MAKE UP TABLE... AFTER his death? What,.. she didnt see them before???
See how even that story makes no sense!!!
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Couldn't at least one of them go for an original pose? :roll:
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I am getting co fused are the above pictures photoshoped I'd have I miss understood if they are fake they are good
I mentioned before about Karen saying michael liked samantha and she realized this when she found her photo in his dressing room
She is labouring the point but then I read michael called her flea
But anyway I see what you mean they could be doing this for him to help the hoax
Flea:
A parasite transported by small furry animals that derives nourishment through blood.
A flea is someone who is annoying and wont go away. Like a flea to a dog, such a person will continue their ways, unswayed by what you say.
A female that doesn't do anything with her life, is loud for no reason and hangs out with strays
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=flea
Doesn't sound like a term of endearment to me but hey, maybe I just misunderstand, I am kind of old :lol:
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I think she lied. I don't believe Michael told her he didn't wanna make the shows. I believe in the dancers, in the team of TII, who *all* said he was well and enthusiastic.
But I don't get it - WHY??! For me Karen and TINI feel guilty because they think they couldn't "save" him and thats why they are beating everyone with their hating tirades. I never thought about Sony or anyone else could pay them for this... hm. It's quite interesting, I have to think about it - maybe I will get the foggy clouds out of my head :?
Samantha did lie. She and Karen were all happy and said that this is going to be a perfect show, Michael is at his best. This was prior to June 25th. After his death, they sang another tune.
I believe Michael was happy about the tour.
stressed? Obviously
Perfectionist? As always.
But no this pictures are real.
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I read somehere he had a list if fleas and ticks but I can't remember where I read it
Karen said this about samantha on twitter it was when she was asking for everybody to stop the arguing
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Catty women are such a turnoff, no wonder why MJ isn't seen with them often, if at all. It it was truly a women close to him, she would protect his privacy by not talking and just be thankful she had those special moments, like Liz and Diana.
Question, if a picture has been shopped, when you zoom up super magnified, wouldn't you see edges? I'm not too saavy there. Just something weird about the top pic is that it looks like MJ is sitting with his legs spread open and her between, seems awkward in a van. The gesture of grabbing a piece of material I've seen him doing that before, little cute idiosincrasy he has. In the last pic MJ has his hand up where her boob is, seems a little odd, who would do that. So maybe photoshopped. And IMO that's all MJ. And fleas sounds like in the same general catagory as leeches. Fleas=females and leeches=males that want everything they can from MJ!!
DancingTheDream are you saying this "fanfare" dishonesty has brought you a step closer to "believing"?
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Question, if a picture has been shopped, when you zoom up super magnified, wouldn't you see edges? I'm not too saavy there.
Although these ones are just for fun and we KNOW they're photoshopped and the body really doesn't match the head, although Mo streched it to make it look bigger, there are not really visible edges. Mo is not a professional photoshopper, so imagine what a prof could be capable of... Enjoy again: Arnie's Tribute to Haute Couture!
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/arnieklein01.jpg)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/arnieklein02.jpg)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/arnieklein03.jpg)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/arnieklein04.jpg)
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plleezzee noGeeze, that's almost blasphemous :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
(http://www.emmaverse.com/images/Misc/ohnootter2.jpg)
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I must be getting better at pinpointing the doubles because I said right away "that's not Michael" :lol:
I don't know how many agree, but to me those look like doubles more than any we've seen so far...
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I must be getting better at pinpointing the doubles because I said right away "that's not Michael" :lol:
I don't know how many agree, but to me those look like doubles more than any we've seen so far...
I am sorry but all of the pictures (except Klein ;)) are Michael.
Look at the fingers for one, discoloured finger nails and it isn't makeup to make them look that way. You all just see doubles everywhere but when we get something stuck in our head, sometimes we see what we want to see, even when it may not be correct.
[attachment=0:2zbv57jy]fingers.jpg[/attachment:2zbv57jy]
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sorry, but I am certain it's a double. If the nails are your only argument than that is really not enough to convince me otherwise. It's not because it's in my head, it's because he looks like one of the doubles and not like Mike.
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When Michael smiles, his lower left lip is crooked. These pics all have that. If you look at his pics through the years, he has always ahd that crooked smile, and that is how I have always been able to know if it was a double or not.
The pics of uncle Arnie are pricless and a little gross :shock: :lol:
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sorry, but I am certain it's a double. If the nails are your only argument than that is really not enough to convince me otherwise. It's not because it's in my head, it's because he looks like one of the doubles and not like Mike.
Me too. I wasn't even thinking about doubles when I saw these pictures.
I don't know how anyone could be so sure just because of the nails? Not getting it. Please enlighten me if you can. Couldn't make up or some kind of nail polish be used on the nails? To me that sounds easier than an entire prosthetic face. The nails would be like the "finishing touch" on the final piece of work.
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When Michael smiles, his lower left lip is crooked. These pics all have that. If you look at his pics through the years, he has always ahd that crooked smile, and that is how I have always been able to know if it was a double or not.
The pics of uncle Arnie are pricless and a little gross :shock: :lol:
I only see Michael smiling in one picture. Well, there's somewhat of a smile in all of them, but only one where it shows his teeth and the "crooked lower lip" as you pointed out. To me the entire mouth area doesn't look like Mike. And something with the nose, perhaps the space between the nose and the lip? I don't know, all I know is I had to do a DOUBLE take when first seeing these pictures. :lol:
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The crooked lip can be duplicated. Mike's mouth is fuller, rounder, even when he smiles. I don't know how to explain, but I'll try to show what I mean with pictures later on.
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The crooked lip can be duplicated. Mike's mouth is fuller, rounder, even when he smiles. I don't know how to explain, but I'll try to show what I mean with pictures later on.
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I know what you mean. It's so easy to see in my head but it's hard to explain. But I know what you mean about his mouth.
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You know, I NEVER noticed Michael's fingernails until the hoax, but now they are one of the first features I look at on him. I can picture me meeting him right now; I'll want to kiss his hand just to check the nails out to see if it is really him, LOL!
Anyway, I do think that it is Michael in the pics with the follower fans. Who's the guy fan? I never realized he had any male followers.
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You know, I NEVER noticed Michael's fingernails until the hoax, but now they are one of the first features I look at on him. I can picture me meeting him right now; I'll want to kiss his hand just to check the nails out to see if it is really him, LOL!
Anyway, I do think that it is Michael in the pics with the follower fans. Who's the guy fan? I never realized he had any male followers.
You must not have been paying attention then :lol:
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ok Karen must be reading this site or something...
http://twitter.com/wingheart
It is sad when people lie about Michael's closest fans. I don't understand the cruelty Samantha has endured by fans who weren't there. about 1 hour ago via TweetList!
Here is the photo that Michael kept with him on the makeup table in the last weeks of his life. He loved these girls
[attachment=0:1undoyuy]pic in mj dressing room via karen.jpg[/attachment:1undoyuy]
about 1 hour ago via TweetList!
Here is a photo I took from my car after rehearsal. I was behind MJ. I had to wait while he talked to them
[attachment=1:1undoyuy]Karen tweet.jpg[/attachment:1undoyuy]
about 1 hour ago via TweetList!
FROOTknowsTROOT
@wingheart maybe start by not reffering to them as "closest"?? We all loved him, but didn't have the means to do what the followers did
Michael loved all of his fans. But these were the fans who were close and witnessed his last days.
26 minutes ago via TweetList!
neverletyoupart
@wingheart lord, did you just have to explain yourself with that one too? Siiiigh LOL
33 minutes ago via Twitter for iPhone in reply to wingheart
@neverletyoupart LOL yes....the immature jealousy is all out of control.....good night.
18 minutes ago via TweetList! in reply to neverletyoupart
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Something about Karen Faye just doesn't sit right with me.
She's hiding something, or she's trying too hard to make things seem a certain way. I can't put my finger on it.
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Well when were the pictures of the "girls" taken because in the picture Michael supposedly kept on his makeup table in the last weeks of his life, they are wearing the same clothes and the guy isn't in the picture?
So when did they give this picture to Michael so he could put it on his makeup table?
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Here is the shape of the mouth I mean. It's rounded, even when he smiles The corners of his mouth are always pointing a little downwards. It's soft and really charachteristic for his face, together with his eyes.
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/mouth1.jpg)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/mouth2.jpg)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/mouth3.jpg)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/mouth5.jpg)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/mouth6.jpg)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/mouth7.jpg)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/mouth8.jpg)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/mouth9.jpg)
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Michael and Michael :D
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You know, I NEVER noticed Michael's fingernails until the hoax, but now they are one of the first features I look at on him. I can picture me meeting him right now; I'll want to kiss his hand just to check the nails out to see if it is really him, LOL!
Anyway, I do think that it is Michael in the pics with the follower fans. Who's the guy fan? I never realized he had any male followers.
You must not have been paying attention then :lol:
Honestly I really wasn't paying attention. I am one of the fans who rediscovered Michael after his "death" I hadn't actively listened to his music since I was a kid and had completely lost track of him. I remember seeing the pics of him and the kids in a comic book store in late 2008 and thinking how I couldn't believe how big his kids were. I am so glad that I have "come back" to him though. I had really been missing out!
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Here is the shape of the mouth I mean. It's rounded, even when he smiles The corners of his mouth are always pointing a little downwards. It's soft and really charachteristic for his face, together with his eyes.
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/mouth1.jpg)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/mouth2.jpg)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/mouth3.jpg)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/mouth5.jpg)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/mouth6.jpg)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/mouth7.jpg)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/mouth8.jpg)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/mouth9.jpg)
Great examples. I soooo know what you mean.
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I have a few comments about the Karen tweets and photos.
1.) She mentioned jealous fans and I can't help but wonder if she isn't jealous herself that she wasn't in the pic.
2.) It looks awfully light outside for the pic she took from her car to have been taken after a rehearsal. Wasn't it usually midnight or better before they were finished? Perhaps she meant that this one was taken before the rehearsal.
3.) For someone who is so offended by the hoaxers, it sure does seem like she lurks on the hoax forums a good bit. Something about Karen doesn't sit well with me either.
I would also like to add that I can't help but wonder what Michael really thought of the followers. They kinda remind me of puppies following their owners around everywhere. Clearly they must have some money since they don't seem to work, so it's a shame that they couldn't honor their hero by spending that time volunteering somewhere or doing something more constructive with their lives. Oh well, to each their own.
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I do think it's Michael in the photos, but I'm not wanting to argue with anyone who thinks otherwise. Just wanted to post some other photos of that same day, for anyone wanting to see them.
(http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/817/mjfan5.jpg)
(http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/9458/mjfan3.jpg)
(http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/7342/mjfan4.jpg)
(http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/5487/mjfan2.jpg)
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Very interesting thread.
The photos do look photoshopped and I think Souza is correct that there's a double.
I know Michael adored his fans but he had to get tired, right? So, a double filled in to not disappoint the fans. I've also seen photos of Michael with nails looking very clear. Seeing them discolored doesn't always convince me it's MJ.
With doubts and concerns about Karen, I'm reminded what Pearl Jr. had to say about her in the emovie book. Pearl even wrote MJ a letter about Karen to warn him about her. At least, that's what she says and includes the letter in the e-book.
To figure out what MJ and Karen's relationship is, is really difficult. I often dismiss Karen but then I think about her saying she applied MJ's makeup in the casket, which took over 6 hours (!) Why so long? We've gone over that before, I know. She's gotta know something about the hoax to be bold enough to talk about the casket work, right?
MJ asked Karen back to work with him after letting her go a few years ago and he called her back right before he left the scene. One pattern that's interesting is quite a few former employees of MJ were brought back a few months or so before June 25.
Are some of these characters playing a role as scripted or are they being played?
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the second and the third photos do look photoshoped, really strange, it's funny that Michael called that Sam and her group fleas :lol: , no matter how much he loves and adores his fans he's a human being who needs privacy and peace and i can imagine how annoying it is when you are stalked everywhere by a group of fans, no privacy,if we believe Sam she and her friends were the ones who were important in MJ's life, his favourite ones among all of his fans, i really don't like it, Michael loved all his fans equally. About Karen- she's a drama queen and i really dont believe a word she says, from time to time she seems an attention seeker and i dont like it
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by looking at the outfit, it seems, these photos were supposed to be from the same day as this one :?
(http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af214/moonter/22062_460918145081_655475081_10961380_2300643_n.jpg)
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So all those pictures were taken on the same night......so how could MJ have had a picture on his dresser all the time if the group shot was obviously also taken on that night too??? Things that make you go hmmmm.
Does Karen Faye have a boyfriend???
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So all those pictures were taken on the same night......so how could MJ have had a picture on his dresser all the time if the group shot was obviously also taken on that night too??? Things that make you go hmmmm.
Does Karen Faye have a boyfriend???
She is married, hence the name Karen Faye Kissinger...
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Ohhh...her poor husband, if she is so in love with MJ.. :?
Souza, I'm with you all the way with the double thing....I'm not a fan as per say, so I see things objectively. There's absolutley no way Michael could look so different in a day...
Especially the 02 dude...no way..and even my friends, one a fan, and the other not, both agree with me...........unless he has found a way to put in a chin implant, and then take it out again.........I hope I don't get attacked for not being a fan, but I am an admirer of his talent......and yes, he is human, and not perfect....but no human can change face overnight......He does and always will use doubles, and has never hid that fact...cheers.
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The crooked lip can be duplicated. Mike's mouth is fuller, rounder, even when he smiles. I don't know how to explain, but I'll try to show what I mean with pictures later on.
My husband explained this double to me.He said that when this double smiles the upper lip is much thinner then the other pics of MJ and when he is smiling it kinda looks like the upper lip curls or the skin above his upper lip recedes.I agree with Souza and yes it is hard to explain.my way of explaining is when MJ smiles it's a beautiful natural smile but when this double smiles it reminds me of when I would see the joker smile during the batman movies and please I'm not trying to be disrespectful,I only am trying to give an example..
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I agree...and it also looks like the double has a big overbite.
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I see Michael in those pics but the only man who to me is Michael Jackson without any doubt is this one
(http://www.elpais.com/recorte/20091012elpepucul_1/LCO340/Ies/Fragmento_cartel_oficial_nuevo_lanzamiento_musical_Michael_Jackson_This_is_it.jpg)
Who knows, now I am doubting again about my own perceptions of who is who.
I don´t know if I have been supporting a double all this years. I feel lied upon :(
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i know that i have not exactly been a big proponant of the ts thing so i probably haven't read evrything written by him/her. but i was wondering if he /she has ever approached the subject of who the phonies might be in all of this. just a thought.
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You can BET that Karen is reading hoax sites, and she has been lurking here since August.
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Yes, Karen Faye read forums and hoax sites. She mentioned her opinion about "us, hoaxers and believers" ;)
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Yes, Karen Faye read forums and hoax sites. She mentioned her opinion about "us, hoaxers and believers" ;)
Yes, she was very nice towards us. :shock:
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You know, I NEVER noticed Michael's fingernails until the hoax, but now they are one of the first features I look at on him. I can picture me meeting him right now; I'll want to kiss his hand just to check the nails out to see if it is really him, LOL!
Anyway, I do think that it is Michael in the pics with the follower fans. Who's the guy fan? I never realized he had any male followers.
You must not have been paying attention then :lol:
There are about 5 debvout male fans of MJ in my office alone.
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Yes, Karen Faye read forums and hoax sites. She mentioned her opinion about "us, hoaxers and believers" ;)
Yes, she was very nice towards us. :shock:
Hahaha.. yeah, she doesn't like me :lol: I kindly asked her if she was familiar with elvisandmj.com, lol, and she went off the handle and called us all 'delusional' and told me that Michael is dead 'DEAL WITH IT'!
She seems like a pleasant person be around... :lol:
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ALL Michael. NO double and no photoshop. :roll: If you disagree then you aren't a fan.
I would recognize the real Michael under 100 doubles.
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ALL Michael. NO double. :evil: If you disagree then you aren't a fan.
I would recognize the real Michael under 100 doubles.
I disagree and I've been a fan since 1969.
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I'm a fan for about 18 years and I say that's Michael for 1000%.
And you want to be a fan for so many years? Sorry, but this is ridiculous. :roll:
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I'm a fan for about 18 years and I say that's Michael for 1000%.
And you want to be a fan for so many years? Sorry, but this is ridiculous. :roll:
What's ridiculous about being a fan since 1969? Just because someone doesn't agree with you, doesn't mean they are not a fan - you are ridiculous.
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I mean it's ridiculous, because cou can't recognize that this is the real Michael although you are a fan for so many years.
Sry for my english.
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ok - I apologise for calling you ridiculous, but I still think you are wrong to say people who disagree are not fans.
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Please stop judging people for their believes, THAT'S something that is ridiculous!
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Yes PLEASE stop. I'm a freakin' super fan (I mean literally obsessed) since I was in diapers and to ME it seems ridiculous the other way around when people don't notice the doubles. But you're entitled to your opinion. Think about it though, if doubles were used, the point would be to have them look and act as close as humanly possible to the real deal. This is NOT impossible and it is NOT ridiculous. Don't you think the demands put on Michael Jackson over the years were extremely unrealistic for ONE person to take on? Don't you think he could use a break now and then? Doubles were used often, not just in This Is It. I think it's a waste of energy to fight over it though. I can't "prove" that I'm right and neither can those who say there were no doubles. "If you tell me I'm wrong, then you better prove you're right". Let's just agree to disagree and surely the truth will reveal itself sooner or later. With love.
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You know, I NEVER noticed Michael's fingernails until the hoax, but now they are one of the first features I look at on him. I can picture me meeting him right now; I'll want to kiss his hand just to check the nails out to see if it is really him, LOL!
Anyway, I do think that it is Michael in the pics with the follower fans. Who's the guy fan? I never realized he had any male followers.
You must not have been paying attention then :lol:
There are about 5 debvout male fans of MJ in my office alone.
Not trying to step on anyone's toes here. I know several male fans myself. Not to mention all of the other male artists who admire Michael and consider him one of their heroes. I had just simply never seen a guy with the follower group before so he stuck out to me.
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Doubles were used often, not just in This Is It.
Yes. Michael used doubles in the past, but no so often like you think. And again, in TII were no doubles used on stage.
Fot the non-believers, there is a article on TMZ which confirmed it: http://www.tmz.com/2009/10/26/this-is-it-producers-no-mj-body-doubles/1/#comments-anchor
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Doubles were used often, not just in This Is It.
Yes. Michael used doubles in the past, but no so often like you think. And again, in TII were no doubles used on stage.
Fot the non-believers, there is a article on TMZ which confirmed it: http://www.tmz.com/2009/10/26/this-is-it-producers-no-mj-body-doubles/1/#comments-anchor
"A rep from Sony"... says there are no doubles. Of course they don't want to confirm the doubles, that would defeat the purpose of having them in the first place. The purpose being to FOOL everyone.
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ALL Michael. NO double and no photoshop. :roll: If you disagree then you aren't a fan.
I would recognize the real Michael under 100 doubles.
I don't want to fight about which of us is right or wrong at this point regarding doubles unless it's going to directly lead us to whether Michael is alive or not or whether he plans to come back to us and reveal the hoax anytime soon.
Maybe we can agree that Michael is a genius, a perfectionist and very experienced with disguises. We know from him that he's used disguises since his childhood when he pioneered with the Jehovah Witnesses. He has said very clearly that he has such good disguises he can "fool my own mother." If he could fool his mother, don't you think that would mean us to? And perhaps in moving from his own disguises to creating doubles or decoys, he employed the same experience, genius and perfection.
All that to say, not only is photoshop an insidious, ubiquitous part of life now, but Michael knew how to fool people. He had to from time to time even if he didn't use doubles often. I would agree it wasn't often as we think but they were used. After all, he was hounded relentlessly and his fans needed so much of him, he could find no peace. He had to do something about that don't you think?
Why not consider that every once in awhile, he employed the carefully constructed double to help him with the work of supporting his fans that he loves so much but couldn't possibly satisfy all the time? And, if he gave it a thought, wouldn't he have created a double so perfect it could fool even the best eye - or so he hoped. Who knew we'd be scrutinizing every pixel at this point.
What I do find interesting are these posts about Sam, Karen, Sony, Branca. and Barbara Cox's blog... Who is she?
It's so curious to me. I hope our attention isn't being diverted from who these hosts of characters are suppose to represent.
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All that to say, not only is photoshop an insidious, ubiquitous part of life now, but Michael knew how to fool people. He had to from time to time even if he didn't use doubles often. I would agree it wasn't often as we think but they were used. After all, he was hounded relentlessly and his fans needed so much of him, he could find no peace. He had to do something about that don't you think?
Why not consider that every once in awhile, he employed the carefully constructed double to help him with the work of supporting his fans that he loves so much but couldn't possibly satisfy all the time? And, if he gave it a thought, wouldn't he have created a double so perfect it could fool even the best eye - or so he hoped. Who knew we'd be scrutinizing every pixel at this point.
Exactly my point! I don't think the use of doubles should be thought of as such a negative thing, that is not fair. It's all for LOVE, and always has been.
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For me I can not stand S.D.G nor K.F these women have really upset fans & claim to know Michael better than other fans?!?!? Michael loved all his fans, S.D.G is a stalker & K.F is a jealous woman...
I don't believe they have anything to do with the hoax, Anyone could see from the footage in TII that the production that was been prepared for the show was not just for a 10 night gig!! 8-)
Both these women are disrespectful to the fans & I don't believe Michael would really need such drama queens in his inner circle ;)
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Well when were the pictures of the "girls" taken because in the picture Michael supposedly kept on his makeup table in the last weeks of his life, they are wearing the same clothes and the guy isn't in the picture?
So when did they give this picture to Michael so he could put it on his makeup table?
I also think this is BS.. and she is trying too hard to convince us.
Why would Karen have only seen this photo AFTER Mjs death??? She is his make up artist and she "found" this photo on his make up table after he died???
BS!
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Reply from Sam De Gosson on twitter:
http://xltweet.com/show/?id=515850555C (http://xltweet.com/show/?id=515850555C)
To Bonnie Cox and Co.
I’m not one to usually respond to hateful posts or comments about me (and there have been a few) but I thought I would this time. Especially when one person alone takes the time to dedicate some of her long blog entries to me, without having once met me or even spoken to me, even though she was on my FB for months and never posted a single comment.
According to her the reason I shut my FB down was because I was “caught”, “busted” photo shopping my picture with Michael. However, it’s not the first time I’ve been accused of that and I’ve never responded to any of those accusations before. If you wish to believe it is photo shopped then so be it. And no, this not the reason I shut my page down, I shut it down from an accumulation of spiteful, hateful attacks from the same bunch of people over the last year and yes, it did get to me and I decided to shut it down for a while, to clear my head of all the nonsense that leads me and everyone absolutely nowhere except further into the gutter.
The day before I shut it down I got a comment on my FB wall from a Bonnie Cox “declaring” she was deleting herself from my page. I didn’t pay much attention to it other than the fact I didn’t even know she was on my page to begin with but recognized her name. What I had heard was that she was a good blogger and someone who knew a lot about the fight for Justice. I always heard positive things about her so I wondered where that suddenly came from but paid no more attention to it until the next day when I was forwarded her new blog entry. A whole blog entry directed at me and my friend Karen Faye. This was forwarded to me by several people I know and who were in total disbelief, they didn’t recognize her.
I began reading it, not really expecting much more than the usual crap I usually read about myself and Karen Faye. Karen and I have had the “privilege” of having our very own personal and dedicated hate groups and we always seem to be put together, and attacked together, by the same people. As ridiculous as these groups are, what an honor!
To my surprise, most of the blog part about me was interestingly revolving around my picture with Michael. It went on and on and on about it…I was accused of photo shopping it, that all my claims about my experiences were false and then more comments about “hear-say” from other people (the same bunch, always the same!). That I was a stalker, that Michael hated me, that security had a picture of me and the other followers for security purposes to keep us away from him, etc etc…the list is long!
Not once did Bonnie ever write to me asking if my picture was photo shopped or bothered trying to find out from me why people were claiming all those things about me and what my take was on it. She stayed quietly on my FB for months, just lurking around.
It would make no difference if I sent her the original photo file with all the properties info embedded in the picture; she would find a way to deny it’s genuine. She simply does not want to know, she has already decided it is fake. Her problem, not mine.
What’s interesting is that she never claimed anyone else’s pictures that were taken that day of being fake, just mine. Hmmm…
And then we have the story of the picture Michael kept of us to remind security of the stalkers we supposedly were. This is where stories get twisted by envy and jealousy. Because let’s get down to the bottom of it, isn’t this all about some fans resenting others for something they never had or attention they so desperately are seeking, and that it’s much easier to envy than to appreciate?
The story of the picture came from Karen Faye herself. Karen met up with us the day of the This Is It premiere, to mourn Michael on the day when everyone else were running to movie theaters to see the fall of their idol on the big screen. She told us Michael kept a picture on his make-up table the last few weeks of his life and looked at it every day, it was even taken to Staples Center for the last 2 days of rehearsals. She then showed us the picture. It was a picture we had given Michael, the famous “7” picture. A much different story than the envious explaination of it.
This is not a story I shared first on my page. Karen publicly told the story in response to hateful comments at the time and I reposted it the day after. This is just ONE example of how stories get twisted and lied about by the very same bunch of people who have had either no contact with me at all but who are raging with jealousy, or have simply been deleted from my page and hold a personal grudge. Furthermore, “attention envy” has become so important to some that they cannot bear to see others have a “following” which comes, like in my case, without needing to create a fan-club, fan page, hate group, fan group or sell anything.
All I’ve done, in the past year on my FB is simply share some things I know, some personal memories, personal beliefs and push fans to seek out the truth about what happened to Michael. I’ve posted some pictures, some videos, glimpses of my wonderful and magical experiences but also sad and important ones that should be known about the last few weeks of his life. I even participated in a few documentaries to spread the murder conspiracy theories and I have accused all parties I believe are involved, not just AEG like Bonnie claims in her latest blog entry. I guess she just didn’t like my latest FB status claiming a link between Jermaine, his wife, Thome Thome and Randy Phillips. Next thing you know she accuses me of saying Jermaine killed his brother….go figure! But people read and twist things to their advantage, whatever advantage it could possibly bring them.
So basically this is the deal: If I only have one picture with Michael then I am accused of only having met him once. Next thing you know I no longer have met him, it’s photo shopped. Then when I post more I’m accused of gloating and showing off. There’s just no talking to deaf ears, you just can’t win, it’s not Truth they’re out to get, just pure hate-spewing and collective hysteria.
I have no problem whether you believe me or not Bonnie Cox and the hate groups, but it really shouldn’t be the focus of your fight for Justice…although as I understand it now you think he may be alive…whatever you believe, I have never called you out on anything or even had the chance to ever talk to you and here I get blasted by yet another blog entry from you. Still going on about me, even going as far as accusing me of being PLANTED by the powers! Have you totally lost it???
For someone who does great research, as you claim, maybe you should have researched just a little bit better some of your claims. I think you got my name mixed up a couple of times with someone else, but you wouldn’t know, you weren’t there and your “research” was based on hear-say.
And Bonnie, for someone who is so methodical and writes generally quite intelligently, I have to give you that, why would you delete all the comments you got on your blog entry that you disliked and kept only the ones that gave you the thumbs up? Those thumbs up on those blog entries come from the very same bunch of people you got all your hear-say from and have had hate groups against me and Karen for months. That gives you no credibility! Maybe you should have left all the comments and addressed them, since you must surely stand by what you say and be able to prove your point all the way to the end! But no, you couldn’t do it, instead you wrote a new entry, 6 pages long, still about me and exposing Stephanie Wilburn’s personal email correspondence with you, even going as far as publishing her phone number and physical address. To prove what point I don’t know but that went a little far. Your blog entries have become so ridiculous and so spiteful that you may very well have lost a very good thing you had going in the first place, and turned to the same mob mentality you accuse me of.
So what does it really boil down to here? What is it that you and a bunch of other haters (always the same few) really have against me that it keeps you people awake at night and dictates so much of your life to write about me? Do you not have families, jobs, other hobbies? If it’s your quest to expose me as a fraud and to discredit me then I think you’ve already spent enough time on it, unless you have nothing better to do.
The only thing you may not have realized by doing this is that you’ve made me bigger and more important than I ever intended to be. You make me bigger than I am, do you realize that? I guess the saying “There is no such thing as bad publicity” would fit perfectly here. And the more venom you people spit the more adrenaline rush I get to fight harder for the cause, but the right cause, not by doing what you and a bunch of hateful women do day after day and which really doesn’t achieve anything, except ridicule you once it becomes this insanely barfed all over the pace.
Who cares whether you think I’m a fraud, let it be your belief and move on. I’ve had my share of fans I’ve met or seen online claiming they knew him. I don’t ask for proof if they have none, and if they do, I don’t go and investigate their every claim or try to discredit them for the simple reason that I have no reason to. I’m happy for anyone who got to meet him and experience the Magic! Good for them! And If it’s a lie then it’s really not my problem either. There is no more competition, Michael is DEAD. And whatever people want to claim won’t change my life or keep me up at night like it does for you. Everyone knows their own truth, it’s something they have to live with. I am perfectly happy with mine.
And finally, I am so grateful for all the love and support I get from so many people. Thank you! I’m reopening my FB after so many messages asking me to come back. Yes, I will. Let’s continue the fight and let’s continue the LOVE!
Samantha de Gosson
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Yes, Karen Faye read forums and hoax sites. She mentioned her opinion about "us, hoaxers and believers" ;)
Can you please post a link to her saying something nice about hoaxers :shock: I've never heard her say anything but mean spiteful things about us.
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Yeah, because it's not MJ...
It is Michael. You cannot dismiss something just because, really. Every inch of his it's Michael, I see no slightest reason for anyone to say it's not him.
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Checked again the thread. Those pics are shopped and MJ is MJ imo.
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I just wanted to add that I don't believe at all that Samantha and the other followers are in on the hoax in any way. They were captured in pictures by the media on June 25th sobbing outside of UCLA. There was no need for them to do that in the vast sea of people who were there that day if they were in on the hoax.
(http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/4861/samantha1h.jpg)
(http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/286/samantha2.jpg)