Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators
Latest News => Michael Jackson News => Topic started by: *Mo* on July 30, 2010, 06:50:32 AM
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After my second request for a copy of Mocienne Elizabeth Petit Jackson's claim was rejected by RTL Boulevard this morning and their refusal to tell me who their source is I decided to make another screenshot of that claim and take a second look at it.
By comparing this screenshot to previous released court documents I was able to determine which form MPJ filed:
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/MPJclaim.jpg)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/DE111.jpg)
The form used is DE-111, which can be found here: http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/forms/documents/de111.pdf (http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/forms/documents/de111.pdf)
Now look at the marked checkbox:
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/MPJclaim_cutout.jpg)
"Authorization to Administer Under the Independent Administration of Estates Act" is marked.
Going back to the website of the LA Superiour Court at https://www.lasuperiorcourt.org/civilCa ... Type=Civil (https://www.lasuperiorcourt.org/civilCaseSummary/index.asp?CaseType=Civil), Case number BP117321:
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/LAcourt_docs.jpg)
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/LAcourt_hearings.jpg)
So...MPJ's claim is filed, and listed on the website of the LA Superior Court.
Am I correct when I say that "Party whitout attony" indicates that she filed the claim herself on July 23 2010 in Los Angeles?
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it seems so, but it should say "attorney" I think instead of "attony" - or its just spelling mistake :?
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Nice find ;), i think you re right Mo ... that for sure means she filed the claim herself .
But i will wait and see what our "experts" here have to say about it .
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it seems so, but it should say "attorney" I think instead of "attony" - or its just spelling mistake :?
That is just one of her typos...same goes for "whitout"...
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it seems so, but it should say "attorney" I think instead of "attony" - or its just spelling mistake :?
That is just one of her typos...same goes for "whitout"...
Someone should fire his/her secretary , i guess :D
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Yes, Mo you are right.
Party without attorney is 'Self Representation in Court without an Attorney'.
So she should be in LA on July 23..........
And what about her English...?
Let me refresh your memory: http://www.michaeljackson.com/in-en/node/398162 (http://www.michaeljackson.com/in-en/node/398162)
Do you think she can represent herself...?
Sniff Sniff........ :lol:
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Yes, Mo you are right.
Party without attorney is 'Self Representation in Court without an Attorney'.
So she should be in LA on July 23..........
And what about her English...?
Let me refresh your memory: http://www.michaeljackson.com/in-en/node/398162 (http://www.michaeljackson.com/in-en/node/398162)
Do you think she can represent herself...?
Sniff Sniff........ :lol:
errr....nope! :lol: :lol:
( :roll: )
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I have read an article that Diana Ross's sister stated Mocienne is not her child. Diana Ross's sister never met Michael Jackson. This is another mystery. Every day there is somthing, coming out. This Mocienne woman does not look like MJ nor like Diana Ross's sister, of Diana Ross herself. Why didn't she come out when Michael Jackson was alive. ( you know what I mean) He is alive.. Maybe I should say he was my husband I want his money too... l :lol: :lol: I think we have stop believing every little thing we hear and read. This is my opinion. Love to you all. Blessings.
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This is going to be fun, going to the super market to get some popcorn :lol:
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I have read an article that Diana Ross's sister stated Mocienne is not her child. Diana Ross's sister never met Michael Jackson. This is another mystery. Every day there is somthing, coming out. This Mocienne woman does not look like MJ nor like Diana Ross's sister, of Diana Ross herself. Why didn't she come out when Michael Jackson was alive. ( you know what I mean) He is alive.. Maybe I should say he was my husband I want his money too... l :lol: :lol: I think we have stop believing every little thing we hear and read. This is my opinion. Love to you all. Blessings.
I totally agree with you!
She came out after June 25, 2009...weird, huh? :roll:
But you know, 'they don't care, they use me for the money' ...
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This is going to be fun, going to the super market to get some popcorn :lol:
I think someone else also bought some popcorn :lol:
(http://www.bestweekever.tv/bwe/images/2008/10/michael%20jackson%20gif.gif)
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(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii269/theogrit/1sm213sharepopcorn.gif)
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(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii269/theogrit/1sm213sharepopcorn.gif)
Share please. :) If there are typos doesn't that really mean that the document is a fake?
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That's some good detective work there Mo, well done and thanks!
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Nort Hill street ? ( checks screenshot)
Lmao :mrgreen:
( passes popcorn)
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! Mocienne woman!, Days ago I'm telling you to take your medication.
As for the errors would have to see that the impact of a typographical error in a legal document, and if the "error" affects the decision. For example if the name of a plaintiff or a defendant is poorly written, but either proves to be the person in question.
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From her website:
Now I want justice. I am going to get the DNA test, which is going to proof Michael Jackson is my father.
My lawyer ask me way I made this website.
http://www.mpjjacksonrevelation.com/
If she has a lawyer then why didn't they file this for her?
Obviously she doesn't have one.
She also clearly states her intention, to get a DNA test. I hope she is successful, only to get an exhumation order!
If she exists, she is definitely not Michael's daughter but she may be a player in how this all unfolds.
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From her website:
Now I want justice. I am going to get the DNA test, which is going to proof Michael Jackson is my father.
My lawyer ask me way I made this website.
http://www.mpjjacksonrevelation.com/
If she has a lawyer then why didn't they file this for her?
Obviously she doesn't have one.
She also clearly states her intention, to get a DNA test. I hope she is successful, only to get an exhumation order!
If she exists, she is definitely not Michael's daughter but she may be a player in how this all unfolds.
Since she is living in The Netherlands, I assume the lawyer she mentions on her website is Dutch. A Dutch Lawyer can't represent her in an American court of law. She would need a Californian lawyer or an American lawyer who can practice law in California to represent her in this case. Since she files as "Party without attorney" I don't think she has an American lawyer.
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i don't know why i just thought of this( probably because i'm nut's ) but wasn't there something forever ago about an advertisment wanting actors who were not familiar with the 2005 stuff to play in a doc or movie or somethig? have i totally lost it or does someone else remember or does it even matter?
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i don't know why i just thought of this( probably because i'm nut's ) but wasn't there something forever ago about an advertisment wanting actors who were not familiar with the 2005 stuff to play in a doc or movie or somethig? have i totally lost it or does someone else remember or does it even matter?
If I remember it correct it was the Michael Jackson Company who were looking for employers who didn't pay attention to the news in 2005... Let me look that up!
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Almost correct, it was The Michael Jackson Estate:
Michael Jackson Estate -- We Need Help!
Originally posted Jan 22nd 2010 12:11 PM PST by TMZ Staff
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2010/01/22/0630_mj_ex_tmz_05-1.jpg)
Michael Jackson's estate needs young, talented, self-motivating people who didn't pay attention to the news in 2004-2005.
Lawyers for Jackson's estate have just filed legal docs asking the probate judge for permission to hire people to run Michael Jackson's business.
Specifically, the estate needs co-executive and creative directors.
According to the docs, "With the proper executive and creative management and leadership, the opportunity exists for the MJJ Business to become one of the most profitable companies in the music industry."
http://www.tmz.com/2010/01/22/michael-j ... ate-court/ (http://www.tmz.com/2010/01/22/michael-jackson-estate-business-hire-probate-court/)
I remember how hard Souza and I laughed when we saw that article, as we both never followed the news regarding the allegations and the trial, so we thought about applying :lol:
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Almost correct, it was The Michael Jackson Estate:
Michael Jackson Estate -- We Need Help!
Originally posted Jan 22nd 2010 12:11 PM PST by TMZ Staff
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2010/01/22/0630_mj_ex_tmz_05-1.jpg)
Michael Jackson's estate needs young, talented, self-motivating people who didn't pay attention to the news in 2004-2005.
Lawyers for Jackson's estate have just filed legal docs asking the probate judge for permission to hire people to run Michael Jackson's business.
Specifically, the estate needs co-executive and creative directors.
According to the docs, "With the proper executive and creative management and leadership, the opportunity exists for the MJJ Business to become one of the most profitable companies in the music industry."
http://www.tmz.com/2010/01/22/michael-j ... ate-court/ (http://www.tmz.com/2010/01/22/michael-jackson-estate-business-hire-probate-court/)
I remember how hard Souza and I laughed when we saw that article, as we both never followed the news regarding the allegations and the trial, so we thought about applying :lol:
And Mocienne applied for the job. They took a look at her, and realized that she did have a resemblence to both MJ and Barbara Ross (I really think they look similar) and she got the job. And I don't think she's that clueless, either, dumb spelling mistakes can be faked. They asked Barbara if she was a player, and she said, sounds like fun.
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Is Mocienne certain she isn't confusing Michael and Jermaine? Ha ha!
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the thing that i dont understand is if michael and diana was as close as i believe they were how could her sister have never met him? i think barbara is lying. mpj may not be her child but she would have surely have met mj at one point. unless she disassociated herself from her sister.
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Almost correct, it was The Michael Jackson Estate:
Michael Jackson Estate -- We Need Help!
Originally posted Jan 22nd 2010 12:11 PM PST by TMZ Staff
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2010/01/22/0630_mj_ex_tmz_05-1.jpg)
Michael Jackson's estate needs young, talented, self-motivating people who didn't pay attention to the news in 2004-2005.
Lawyers for Jackson's estate have just filed legal docs asking the probate judge for permission to hire people to run Michael Jackson's business.
Specifically, the estate needs co-executive and creative directors.
According to the docs, "With the proper executive and creative management and leadership, the opportunity exists for the MJJ Business to become one of the most profitable companies in the music industry."
http://www.tmz.com/2010/01/22/michael-j ... ate-court/ (http://www.tmz.com/2010/01/22/michael-jackson-estate-business-hire-probate-court/)
I remember how hard Souza and I laughed when we saw that article, as we both never followed the news regarding the allegations and the trial, so we thought about applying :lol:
And Mocienne applied for the job. They took a look at her, and realized that she did have a resemblence to both MJ and Barbara Ross (I really think they look similar) and she got the job. And I don't think she's that clueless, either, dumb spelling mistakes can be faked. They asked Barbara if she was a player, and she said, sounds like fun.
This just keeps getting better as each day goes by! There are some pretty "smooth investigators" here ... keep up the good work guys!!!
stuffing popcorn in my mouth like Mike in "Thriller" :lol:
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Yes indeed there are very good investigators. I can't wait to see who will be the next loved child of MJ.. :lol: I wonder who can it be? love everyone
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Mo are you still in the closet?
Mo-Cienne, here we go again!
The dog connection (chien in french is dog)
So Mo, who let the dog out???
and a small (petit for french) connection with Elvis (Eliza)
Where is my straight jacket????
Gonna sit next to Souza and Mo with popcorn....
;)
Chaps
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Hihi,
On a Dutch forum I read about it also and there is a person who "knows" this Mociene.
Mociene came often to her shop in the past and in that time she also spoke about her father being a famous person. Later she also told it was MJ and showed her a page from a magazine with a photo of Michael ... :roll:
Noone took her serious, they discribed her as a grazy person ... :lol:
Here's the page from this forum in Dutch.
The responder's name who told this is Tessie.
http://forum.fok.nl/topic/1474694/10/25 (http://forum.fok.nl/topic/1474694/10/25)
(http://i46.tinypic.com/2ebaamu.jpg)
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Mo are you still in the closet?
Mo-Cienne, here we go again!
The dog connection (chien in french is dog)
So Mo, who let the dog out???
and a small (petit for french) connection with Elvis (Eliza)
Where is my straight jacket????
Gonna sit next to Souza and Mo with popcorn....
;)
Chaps
Chappie you are too funny, yes she is une chienne. ( IN french chienne is feminin she is a woman right?) Well as for Eliza she was looking for her father, and it brought her to Elvis being her half brother, it is kind of different. love always
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Mo are you still in the closet?
Mo-Cienne, here we go again!
The dog connection (chien in french is dog)
So Mo, who let the dog out???
and a small (petit for french) connection with Elvis (Eliza)
Where is my straight jacket????
Gonna sit next to Souza and Mo with popcorn....
;)
Chaps
Chappie you are too funny, yes she is une chienne. ( IN french chienne is feminin she is a woman right?) Well as for Eliza she was looking for her father, and it brought her to Elvis being her half brother, it is kind of different. love always
What if Michael is Mocienne's half brother, too?
Joe being the one?
(Remember the target cross on his hat and the glissy sweat on his arm on one of Katherine's photos). Would it surprise us? Not me.
(BTW on that picture, the left hand does NOT look like Joe's. ;) )
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After my second request for a copy of Mocienne Elizabeth Petit Jackson's claim was rejected by RTL Boulevard this morning and their refusal to tell me who their source is I decided to make another screenshot of that claim and take a second look at it.
MO, try writing to Shownieuws of sbs 6?
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I don't understand something, Why does a person who thinks that MJ is the father wait until the death to come out? Wouldn't you want to know your father when he is alive and well? Why come out when a person is dead? Same as the DonteRJackson and the other fellow I forgot his name. I feel if you think you are a loved child, and you want to come forward, is when the parent is alive, so you can be with that parent, bond with the parent, be loved from the parent. I know and feel it this is just a scam to make money. Mocienne, DonteRJackson, should be ashamed of themselves. Honesty is the best policy. Blessings !
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Hihi,
On a Dutch forum I read about it also and there is a person who "knows" this Mociene.
Mociene came often to her shop in the past and in that time she also spoke about her father being a famous person. Later she also told it was MJ and showed her a page from a magazine with a photo of Michael ... :roll:
Noone took her serious, they discribed her as a grazy person ... :lol:
Here's the page from this forum in Dutch.
The responder's name who told this is Tessie.
http://forum.fok.nl/topic/1474694/10/25 (http://forum.fok.nl/topic/1474694/10/25)
(http://i46.tinypic.com/2ebaamu.jpg)
Hey.. she might be crazy.. she might be SANE! That would be crazy. If she sane, will she make it back home alive? I am not saying what would happen, but so many people connected to Michael have died mysteriously.
But, I lean toward mental illness. I had a cousin who looked just like Elvis and because people called him that he believed he was him and also I travel to a town where a guy rides around town on his bicycle or walks around with a guitar. He truly believes he is Elvis and asks people if they want an autograph.
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She works with ill people.
To do that you will have to be sane. If she is not im worried..
http://www.rtvdebilt.nl/?p=2822 (http://www.rtvdebilt.nl/?p=2822)
( gets popcorn)
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Mocienne is registered in Hilversum with the last name -- Petit-. single and born in Haiti[/b]
So when did she change that last name- Petit- into Jackson-? Did MJJ acknowledge her one sunny day or was it any old Jackson from god knows where? She should show her birth certificate , put it on her web site, that would also have her biological mother's name. If she does that and mum's maiden name is Ross we might have a problem :roll:
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ok, now I need popcorn too...
(http://i30.tinypic.com/2upcneb.jpg)
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I'm still trying to figure out what on earth is going on here. As far as I can tell - the petition she filed has nothing to do with a request for a DNA test.
There are a couple of scenarios possible, and I'm going to write down some questions I have, some thoughts, and some scenarios...
I want to emphasize that as of now, we have no idea what MPJ's nationality is. Last Thursday I called the Haitian embassy and asked that if a baby is born in Haiti, will it automatically get the Haitian nationality. The answer was: "No, that depends on the nationality of the parents.".
First of all, we have the name issue. On her website she writes:
Katherine Esther Jackson took away a part of my individuality by deleting the Jackson name from my official documents when she had me taken away against my will from Haiti to the USA and then to Europe in 1984.
On her website she's showing a certificate from the Soest town hall, stamped June 3 2009, stating her name is Mocienne Elizabeth Petit: http://www.mpjjacksonrevelation.com/sit ... chrift.jpg (http://www.mpjjacksonrevelation.com/sites/default/files/afschrift.jpg)
On July 23 2010 she filed a petition with the LA Superior Court stating her name is Mocienne Elizabeth Petit Jackson:
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/MPJclaim3.jpg)
My first questions are: How did she manage to get the name Jackson back on her legal document, showing her identity? Filing a petition would require identification I'd say, right? If so (and if this claim is real) then she must have shown a passport or ID stating her legal name is Mocienne Elizabeth Petit Jackson. If her legal last name is Jackson, then a person with the last name Jackson must have given permission to adopt the Jackson name, or she must have shown a legal birth certificate stating her last name is Jackson. The last option immediately leads to a new question: if she possesses a birth certificate stating her last name is Jackson, then why would she wait until after June 3 2009 to change her last name?
Second: The petition filed by MPJ is a Petition for Probate (Probate Decedents Estates): http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/forms/documents/de111.pdf (http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/forms/documents/de111.pdf) The marked checkbox shows "Authorization to Administer Under the Independent Administration of Estates Act".
Authorization to administer under Independent Administration of Estates Act: The California Probate Code allows a somewhat simplified formal probate administration. Essentially, it eliminates the requirement of obtaining court approval for many of the common transactions undertaken by the personal representative. However, some actions are not exempt and require either express court approval or written notice to all beneficiaries of a proposed course of action, giving them a period of 15 days in which to lodge an objection before the action is taken (§§ 10400-10600).
http://www.monstermind.com/John%20C.%20 ... 202002.htm (http://www.monstermind.com/John%20C.%20Bost%20Uploaded%202.18.99/Chap04%202002.htm)
Since we can only see a small part of MPJ's petition on the screenshot we have no idea what is marked or written in addition.
Question: wouldn't she need some kind of proof to show that she is "entitled" to file this petition? I'd say that if no proof is needed, anyone can file a petition like that with the LA Superior Court and the court would have a full time job with hearings about that.
Scenarios:
- This whole petition is bogus, the whole Estate being in probate is bogus, and this is merely a part of the script to start digging and discover there's no one in that tomb.
- MPJ is telling the truth and somehow was provided with evidence that she is indeed Michael Jackson's daughter.
- This is planned by the bad camp, who are still trying to get a hold of Mike's money and assets.
Scenario 3 came in mind after reading this line on MPJ's website:
When I was reunited with my father in 2001 by the Sony Music team, the name Jackson was at that moment no longer important to me, so I told my father; just Petit was fine with me.
We all know that Sony conspired against Mike, first by boycotting the promotion of Invincible:
Start at 2:22
[youtube:3czc8rq7]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQwY4ll1Kfc[/youtube:3czc8rq7]
Mike about Sony:
[youtube:3czc8rq7]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx4NwrMtgw8[/youtube:3czc8rq7]
As far as Souza and I'm concerned a double with bad intentions or a double instructed by bad camp was placed years ago already, causing all kinds of trouble for Mike, including financial trouble (pointing out to the various signatures again). That double was put out of play when Mike "died".
If MPJ is on the bad camp's side and met the bad double instead of Mike, this whole "I'm Michael Jackson's daughter" thing might be a way of bad camp trying to get control again, and she could have a document stating she's his daughter which is signed by the double...[/b]
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She works with ill people.
To do that you will have to be sane. If she is not im worried..
http://www.rtvdebilt.nl/?p=2822 (http://www.rtvdebilt.nl/?p=2822)
( gets popcorn)
Just because she works with ill people doesn't mean she can't be suffering from a mental illness.
I have studied abnormal psychology and criminal psychology at University (amongst other things). My main topic of interest was female serial killers. Now, I am not saying this woman is a serial killer at all. I bring it up only as an example to show that working in the medical field does not exclude one from being mentally ill. One of the categories of female serial killers is "The Angel Of Death".
The Angel of Death - systematically kills people who are in her care for some form of medical attention
People working in any field can be mentally ill and there are degrees of mental illness depending on what may be affecting them.
Delusional Disorder
Delusional disorder, previously called paranoid disorder, is a type of serious mental illness called a "psychosis" in which a person cannot tell what is real from what is imagined. The main feature of this disorder is the presence of delusions, which are unshakable beliefs in something untrue. People with delusional disorder experience non-bizarre delusions, which involve situations that could occur in real life, such as being followed, poisoned, deceived, conspired against, or loved from a distance. These delusions usually involve the misinterpretation of perceptions or experiences. In reality, however, the situations are either not true at all or highly exaggerated.
People with delusional disorder often can continue to socialize and function normally, apart from the subject of their delusion, and generally do not behave in an obviously odd or bizarre manner. This is unlike people with other psychotic disorders, who also might have delusions as a symptom of their disorder. In some cases, however, people with delusional disorder might become so preoccupied with their delusions that their lives are disrupted.
Although delusions might be a symptom of more common disorders, such as schizophrenia, delusional disorder itself is rather rare. Delusional disorder most often occurs in middle to late life and is slightly more common in women than in men.
Types of Delusional Disorder
There are different types of delusional disorder based on the main theme of the delusions experienced. The types of delusional disorder include:
* Erotomanic: Someone with this type of delusional disorder often believes that another person, often someone important or famous, is in love with him or her. The person might attempt to contact the object of the delusion, and stalking behavior is not uncommon. (this is not the only delusion in this category, just the most common)
* Grandiose: A person with this type of delusional disorder has an over-inflated sense of worth, power, knowledge, or identity. The person might believe he or she has a great talent or has made an important discovery.
* Jealous: A person with this type of delusional disorder believes that his or her spouse or sexual partner is unfaithful.
* Persecutory: People with this type of delusional disorder believe that they (or someone close to them) are being mistreated, or that someone is spying on them or planning to harm them. It is not uncommon for people with this type of delusional disorder to make repeated complaints to legal authorities.
* Somatic: A person with this type of delusional disorder believes that he or she has a physical defect or medical problem.
* Mixed: People with this type of delusional disorder have two or more of the types of delusions listed above.
What Are the Symptoms of Delusional Disorder?
The presence of non-bizarre delusions is the most obvious symptom of this disorder. Other symptoms that mighty appear include:
* An irritable, angry, or low mood
* Hallucinations (seeing, hearing, or feeling things that are not really there) that are related to the delusion (For example, a person who believes he or she has an odor problem may smell a bad odor.)
http://www.minddisorders.com/Br-Del/Delusional-disorder.html
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My first questions are: How did she manage to get the name Jackson back on her legal document, showing her identity? Filing a petition would require identification I'd say, right? If so (and if this claim is real) then she must have shown a passport or ID stating her legal name is Mocienne Elizabeth Petit Jackson. If her legal last name is Jackson, then a person with the last name Jackson must have given permission to adopt the Jackson name, or she must have shown a legal birth certificate stating her last name is Jackson. The last option immediately leads to a new question: if she possesses a birth certificate stating her last name is Jackson, then why would she wait until after June 3 2009 to change her last name?
When an individual legally changes their name, they must surrender their old Birth Certificate and it is destroyed. They are then issued a new Birth Certificate with this new name. This is done even if you are only adding a last name. The only instance that this does not occur in is if a woman gets married and assumes her husband's last name.
So she could have changed her name legally and then she would have a Birth Certificate with that name on it. All other identification such as passports, certificates etc. would also then be in that name as well. People with delusional disorder frequently function normally except in regards to their delusion. If she believes that her real name is Jackson and Katherine removed that from her Birth Certificate, she may have in her mind, put things right by changing her last name to "Jackson"
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If she believes that her real name is Jackson and Katherine removed that from her Birth Certificate, she may have in her mind, put things right by changing her last name to "Jackson"
That depends on her nationality. If she now has the Dutch nationality, there is absolutely no way she can change her name to anything she wants. We have extremely strict laws about that. In order to adopt someone else's name you have to provide solid proof that you are connected to that person (biological parent or step parent) and you need permission from that person to adopt his/her name.
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This story is a 'little' bit weird....
Did she request the DNA test, or isn't it "administrate the Michael Jackson's estate"...??
I'm not familiar with the California law, but we have two different requests here.
TMZ wrote:
(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/3756/tmz.png)
But we also have:
On July 23 2010 she filed a petition with the LA Superior Court stating her name is Mocienne Elizabeth Petit Jackson:
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/MPJclaim3.jpg)
My first questions are: How did she manage to get the name Jackson back on her legal document, showing her identity? Filing a petition would require identification I'd say, right? If so (and if this claim is real) then she must have shown a passport or ID stating her legal name is Mocienne Elizabeth Petit Jackson. If her legal last name is Jackson, then a person with the last name Jackson must have given permission to adopt the Jackson name, or she must have shown a legal birth certificate stating her last name is Jackson. The last option immediately leads to a new question: if she possesses a birth certificate stating her last name is Jackson, then why would she wait until after June 3 2009 to change her last name?
Second: The petition filed by MPJ is a Petition for Probate (Probate Decedents Estates): http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/forms/documents/de111.pdf (http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/forms/documents/de111.pdf) The marked checkbox shows "Authorization to Administer Under the Independent Administration of Estates Act".
Authorization to administer under Independent Administration of Estates Act: The California Probate Code allows a somewhat simplified formal probate administration. Essentially, it eliminates the requirement of obtaining court approval for many of the common transactions undertaken by the personal representative. However, some actions are not exempt and require either express court approval or written notice to all beneficiaries of a proposed course of action, giving them a period of 15 days in which to lodge an objection before the action is taken (§§ 10400-10600).
http://www.monstermind.com/John%20C.%20 ... 202002.htm (http://www.monstermind.com/John%20C.%20Bost%20Uploaded%202.18.99/Chap04%202002.htm)
[/b]
As Mo already said, if she uses already the name Jackson, why did TMZ write that she requested the DNA test..? Who gave her that name..? Is she really a Jackson..?
Harvey, I have a request for you as well, could you provide us those papers?????? (http://msnsmileys.net/p/smileys/Popo/Sweet_Kiss.png)
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Second: The petition filed by MPJ is a Petition for Probate (Probate Decedents Estates): http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/forms/documents/de111.pdf (http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/forms/documents/de111.pdf) The marked checkbox shows "Authorization to Administer Under the Independent Administration of Estates Act".
Authorization to administer under Independent Administration of Estates Act: The California Probate Code allows a somewhat simplified formal probate administration. Essentially, it eliminates the requirement of obtaining court approval for many of the common transactions undertaken by the personal representative. However, some actions are not exempt and require either express court approval or written notice to all beneficiaries of a proposed course of action, giving them a period of 15 days in which to lodge an objection before the action is taken (§§ 10400-10600).
http://www.monstermind.com/John%20C.%20 ... 202002.htm (http://www.monstermind.com/John%20C.%20Bost%20Uploaded%202.18.99/Chap04%202002.htm)
Since we can only see a small part of MPJ's petition on the screenshot we have no idea what is marked or written in addition.
Question: wouldn't she need some kind of proof to show that she is "entitled" to file this petition? I'd say that if no proof is needed, anyone can file a petition like that with the LA Superior Court and the court would have a full time job with hearings about that.
PROBATE CODE
SECTION 11600-11605
11600. The personal representative or an interested person may petition the court under this chapter for an order for preliminary or final distribution of the decedent's estate to the persons entitled thereto.
11602. The personal representative or any interested person may oppose the petition.
http://law.justia.com/california/codes/prob/11600-11605.html
Anyone can go to the Probate Clerk's office and review the documents. Unscrupulous individuals may review Court files and determine that valuable assets have been distributed to elderly or immature beneficiaries and attempt to take advantage of a beneficiary. Nosey neighbors, competitors of a family business, and others can review court files to try to uncover a family's dirty linen, squabbles, etc.
http://www.hgoiitax.com/willstrusts.html
Anyone can make a claim as an interested party. The judge then decides whether to accept the claim or dismiss it but a hearing is still scheduled for her to appear before the judge and state her case for consideration.
Anyone can review the documents etc when an estate is in probate.
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She is going to represent herself in the court, right..? So she should be american and live in California to be able to do it, right..? It's like you need a Californian laywer to represent yourself in the California court...
So that means she is an american and and she lives in California...? :o
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If she believes that her real name is Jackson and Katherine removed that from her Birth Certificate, she may have in her mind, put things right by changing her last name to "Jackson"
That depends on her nationality. If she now has the Dutch nationality, there is absolutely no way she can change her name to anything she wants. We have extremely strict laws about that. In order to adopt someone else's name you have to provide solid proof that you are connected to that person (biological parent or step parent) and you need permission from that person to adopt his/her name.
I have been reading others sites as well on changing your name and they are saying that you can just change it by assuming that name. Not specifically the Netherlands but the UK, Canada, US etc.
UK site
How to change your name
If you wish to be known by a different name you can change your name at any time, provided you do not intend to deceive or defraud another person. There is no legal procedure to follow in order to change a name. You simply start using the new name. You can change your forename or surname, add names or rearrange your existing names.
Although there is no legal way to change a name, you may want evidence that you have changed your name (see under heading Evidence of change of name). However, you cannot change details on your birth certificate, except in limited circumstances.
Once you have decided to change your name, you can use the new name for all purposes, for example, publishing marriage bans, legal proceedings and obtaining, or changing details on a driving licence or passport.
Evidence of change of name
You do not need legal proof that you have changed your name, provided that you can be identified by your new chosen name. However, there are some circumstances, for example, applying for a passport, when additional evidence of the change of name is required. The evidence required varies depending on the purpose for which it is needed and can include:-
* a letter from a responsible person
* a public announcement
* a statutory declaration
* a deed poll.
Letter
A letter from a responsible person, such as a GP, solicitor, minister, priest or MP, will often be enough evidence that you have changed your name. The letter should state that the person has known you in both names and that the change of name is to be used for all purposes. A letter will not be enough evidence if you are applying for a passport.
Public announcement
You may want to record your name change by placing an advertisement in a local or national newspaper. This should state that you have stopped using your previous name and have assumed a new one. A copy of the advertisement can then be used as evidence that you have changed your name.
Statutory declaration
For most purposes, a statutory declaration is generally accepted as evidence of your change of name.
A statutory declaration is a statement, recording your intention to abandon your old name and adopt a new one.
Deed poll
A deed poll is a formal statement to prove that your name has been changed. For most people it will not be necessary to prepare a deed poll as evidence that they have changed their name. However, there may be cases when a deed poll is required, for example, when applying for a passport.
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/your_family/family/change_of_name.htm
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For some reason I can't seem to get on the LA Superior Court website. If anyone else can, there is a listing of the petitioners there, which will let you see the petitioners. Then we will know by which name she filed this petition, though if she has just assumed the name "Jackson", she may have filed using that name. That doesn't mean that she is actually a Jackson though.
Go here Superior Court Of California County of Los Angeles: http://www.lasuperiorcourt.org/probate/ (http://www.lasuperiorcourt.org/probate/) Click Case Summary on the left, scroll to the bottom and put the Case Number: BP117321 in the the box on the bottom of the page. Then select the petitioners list.
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Can someone please explain to me, how come she has an Haitian name but yet Katherine shipped her away and now she lives in the Netherlands. Was she ever in Haiti? Haitian people adopted her, and that's why she has Haitian name? I am very lost. Mocienne Petit is an Haitian name, that is a fact because I have Haitian friends. How does that explain? What I am trying to say, if she has an haitian name it cannot be MJ and Dr. Ross child.. Maybe I missed something by reading all your posts.
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For some reason I can't seem to get on the LA Superior Court website. If anyone else can, there is a listing of the petitioners there, which will let you see the petitioners. Then we will know by which name she filed this petition, though if she has just assumed the name "Jackson", she may have filed using that name. That doesn't mean that she is actually a Jackson though.
Go here Superior Court Of California County of Los Angeles: http://www.lasuperiorcourt.org/probate/ (http://www.lasuperiorcourt.org/probate/) Click Case Summary on the left, scroll to the bottom and put the Case Number: BP117321 in the the box on the bottom of the page. Then select the petitioners list.
I already posted that on the 28th:
Well, JMP is now listed as a petitioner on the website of the Superior Court:
JACKSON MOCIENNE ELIZABETH PETIT - Petitioner[/b]
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For some reason I can't seem to get on the LA Superior Court website. If anyone else can, there is a listing of the petitioners there, which will let you see the petitioners. Then we will know by which name she filed this petition, though if she has just assumed the name "Jackson", she may have filed using that name. That doesn't mean that she is actually a Jackson though.
Go here Superior Court Of California County of Los Angeles: http://www.lasuperiorcourt.org/probate/ (http://www.lasuperiorcourt.org/probate/) Click Case Summary on the left, scroll to the bottom and put the Case Number: BP117321 in the the box on the bottom of the page. Then select the petitioners list.
I already posted that on the 28th:
Well, JMP is now listed as a petitioner on the website of the Superior Court:
JACKSON MOCIENNE ELIZABETH PETIT - Petitioner[/b]
Okay thank you. I was just wondering what name she used. It still doesn't mean anything though. She could have assumed the last name Jackson. It would still be considered her legal name because it is the one she is known by, even if she didn't file papers to actually change it to that. By assuming the name and going by that name, it is recognized in at least some legal jurisdictions, such as the US, as having changed her last name to Jackson.
I just find it odd that there is this legal loop hole that you can call yourself any thing you want and that then that is your name. Seems ridiculous.
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Petit Mocienne Elizabeth Jackson, upon submission of a passport or other document in which she appears as Jackson also serious false. As a person can change or add a surname without a birth certificate (here I speak from what I know of the laws of my country), I could change my name or remove a name, but the process is so lengthy and complicated that almost nobody does.
Maybe she thinks is really teorria Jackson and a double is correct, and this double is responsible for many of the problems with Michael.
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Changing your name just like that - as described - is not feasible in many countries where authorities even would take a misspell of a name very serious (Mitchall is not equal Mitchell) and fine you.
However, if this "free Willy" procedure is correct and a standard procedure, this opens the horizon how it was feasible to have a "Michael Joe Jackson" and a "Michael Joseph Jackson" in parallel. A twist of names like this to identify one person would not be tolerated in many countries.
(Not dismissing the possibility that there might have been two persons pretending to be one person, however. In fact, the potential authorization of these names as identification for one person by authorities speaks volumes.)
But the bazaar may not necessarily only be found in Kairo - this is false for sure. ;)
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Petit Mocienne Elizabeth Jackson, upon submission of a passport or other document in which she appears as Jackson also serious false. As a person can change or add a surname without a birth certificate (here I speak from what I know of the laws of my country), I could change my name or remove a name, but the process is so lengthy and complicated that almost nobody does.
Maybe she thinks is really teorria Jackson and a double is correct, and this double is responsible for many of the problems with Michael.
To this I wrote, I forgot to add, well if you get a couple of corrupt officials, we can accomplish anything
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(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii269/theogrit/1sm213sharepopcorn.gif)
Share please. :) If there are typos doesn't that really mean that the document is a fake?
Where else have we seen typos?.......The paramedic's report....allergy to thorizine (thorazine is correct)
Where was the, "whitout" typo?
Popcorn...... it's my weakness! :)
I love it with a good show ;)
Blessings!
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(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii269/theogrit/1sm213sharepopcorn.gif)
Share please. :) If there are typos doesn't that really mean that the document is a fake?
Where else have we seen typos?.......The paramedic's report....allergy to thorizine (thorazine is correct)
Where was the, "whitout" typo?
Right here, on the petition:
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/MPJclaim_cutout.jpg)
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My bad......maybe glasses are in order for me :oops:
Thanks for the help Mo!!!!!!
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1- a baby is born
2- that baby gets registered, also in Haiti
3 on the birth certificate is ALWAYS the mother's name, as men haven't been able to get babies yet
4- the baby is transported out of Haiti, with a birth certificate and passport to be adopted elswhere
5- the baby gets adopted in her new country and one needs the birth certificate of that baby to do so
6- the baby gets the stepfather's last name, you need the original birth certificate to do so.
So, Miss Petit: was your stepfather's name Petit? I know you read this and if you want anyone over here to believe you, come on, produce your birth certificate with your mum's name on it. Unless you were found under a tree in Haiti without any last name and adopted>> shipped to Europe. Then you stepfather's name would be Petit. That sounds Belgian or French and not Dutch. It should be easy for you to tell us the truth and produce your birth certificate. You have a son and if he has your last name, what is it......Petit perhaps? Problem solved and you can do whatever you want.
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I'm still trying to figure out what on earth is going on here. As far as I can tell - the petition she filed has nothing to do with a request for a DNA test.
There are a couple of scenarios possible, and I'm going to write down some questions I have, some thoughts, and some scenarios...
I want to emphasize that as of now, we have no idea what MPJ's nationality is. Last Thursday I called the Haitian embassy and asked that if a baby is born in Haiti, will it automatically get the Haitian nationality. The answer was: "No, that depends on the nationality of the parents.".
First of all, we have the name issue. On her website she writes:
Katherine Esther Jackson took away a part of my individuality by deleting the Jackson name from my official documents when she had me taken away against my will from Haiti to the USA and then to Europe in 1984.
On her website she's showing a certificate from the Soest town hall, stamped June 3 2009, stating her name is Mocienne Elizabeth Petit: http://www.mpjjacksonrevelation.com/sit ... chrift.jpg (http://www.mpjjacksonrevelation.com/sites/default/files/afschrift.jpg)
On July 23 2010 she filed a petition with the LA Superior Court stating her name is Mocienne Elizabeth Petit Jackson:
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forumpics/MPJclaim3.jpg)
My first questions are: How did she manage to get the name Jackson back on her legal document, showing her identity? Filing a petition would require identification I'd say, right? If so (and if this claim is real) then she must have shown a passport or ID stating her legal name is Mocienne Elizabeth Petit Jackson. If her legal last name is Jackson, then a person with the last name Jackson must have given permission to adopt the Jackson name, or she must have shown a legal birth certificate stating her last name is Jackson. The last option immediately leads to a new question: if she possesses a birth certificate stating her last name is Jackson, then why would she wait until after June 3 2009 to change her last name?
Second: The petition filed by MPJ is a Petition for Probate (Probate Decedents Estates): http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/forms/documents/de111.pdf (http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/forms/documents/de111.pdf) The marked checkbox shows "Authorization to Administer Under the Independent Administration of Estates Act".
Authorization to administer under Independent Administration of Estates Act: The California Probate Code allows a somewhat simplified formal probate administration. Essentially, it eliminates the requirement of obtaining court approval for many of the common transactions undertaken by the personal representative. However, some actions are not exempt and require either express court approval or written notice to all beneficiaries of a proposed course of action, giving them a period of 15 days in which to lodge an objection before the action is taken (§§ 10400-10600).
http://www.monstermind.com/John%20C.%20 ... 202002.htm (http://www.monstermind.com/John%20C.%20Bost%20Uploaded%202.18.99/Chap04%202002.htm)
Since we can only see a small part of MPJ's petition on the screenshot we have no idea what is marked or written in addition.
Question: wouldn't she need some kind of proof to show that she is "entitled" to file this petition? I'd say that if no proof is needed, anyone can file a petition like that with the LA Superior Court and the court would have a full time job with hearings about that.
Scenarios:
- This whole petition is bogus, the whole Estate being in probate is bogus, and this is merely a part of the script to start digging and discover there's no one in that tomb.
- MPJ is telling the truth and somehow was provided with evidence that she is indeed Michael Jackson's daughter.
- This is planned by the bad camp, who are still trying to get a hold of Mike's money and assets.
Scenario 3 came in mind after reading this line on MPJ's website:
When I was reunited with my father in 2001 by the Sony Music team, the name Jackson was at that moment no longer important to me, so I told my father; just Petit was fine with me.
We all know that Sony conspired against Mike, first by boycotting the promotion of Invincible:
Start at 2:22
[youtube:1a4e143m]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQwY4ll1Kfc[/youtube:1a4e143m]
Mike about Sony:
[youtube:1a4e143m]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx4NwrMtgw8[/youtube:1a4e143m]
As far as Souza and I'm concerned a double with bad intentions or a double instructed by bad camp was placed years ago already, causing all kinds of trouble for Mike, including financial trouble (pointing out to the various signatures again). That double was put out of play when Mike "died".
If MPJ is on the bad camp's side and met the bad double instead of Mike, this whole "I'm Michael Jackson's daughter" thing might be a way of bad camp trying to get control again, and she could have a document stating she's his daughter which is signed by the double...[/b]
Mo..in perspective here on the name change to file the petition. You can actually fill out that paperwork (I am assuming this is here in the US and I haven't even read it...duh!) without ID but when the clerk goes to record it I believe she would need to have it notarized. She would need a valid ID and proof of her residence for notary in most states.
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Mo..in perspective here on the name change to file the petition. You can actually fill out that paperwork (I am assuming this is here in the US and I haven't even read it...duh!) without ID but when the clerk goes to record it I believe she would need to have it notarized. She would need a valid ID and proof of her residence for notary in most states.
Thank you!
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Mo..in perspective here on the name change to file the petition. You can actually fill out that paperwork (I am assuming this is here in the US and I haven't even read it...duh!) without ID but when the clerk goes to record it I believe she would need to have it notarized. She would need a valid ID and proof of her residence for notary in most states.
Thank you!
I have just read the form and no where does it state that ANY identification or notarization is required on a claimant's petition. It can be MAILED to the court and does not require an in-person filing of the form. When the petitioner signs the form they are making a legal declaration that they are entitled to make such a claim in the case.
(http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy67/droopinghalo/claimantpetitionformA.jpg)
(http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy67/droopinghalo/declarationB.jpg)
(http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy67/droopinghalo/PetitiondeclarationC.jpg)
http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/forms/fillable/de172.pdf
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Mo..in perspective here on the name change to file the petition. You can actually fill out that paperwork (I am assuming this is here in the US and I haven't even read it...duh!) without ID but when the clerk goes to record it I believe she would need to have it notarized. She would need a valid ID and proof of her residence for notary in most states.
Thank you!
I have just read the form and no where does it state that ANY identification or notarization is required on a claimant's petition. It can be MAILED to the court and does not require an in-person filing of the form. When the petitioner signs the form they are making a legal declaration that they are entitled to make such a claim in the case.
(http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy67/droopinghalo/claimantpetitionformA.jpg)
(http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy67/droopinghalo/declarationB.jpg)
(http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy67/droopinghalo/PetitiondeclarationC.jpg)
http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/forms/fillable/de172.pdf
What you have posted is form DE-172, and that is for a Creditor's Claim.
Mocienne Petit Jackson filed a Petition For Probate (Probate Decedents Estate) through form DE-111. You can find it here: http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/forms/fillable/de111.pdf (http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/forms/fillable/de111.pdf)
Nowhere on this form are instructions to the petitioner be found on how it needs to be filed, and what is required.
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Mo..in perspective here on the name change to file the petition. You can actually fill out that paperwork (I am assuming this is here in the US and I haven't even read it...duh!) without ID but when the clerk goes to record it I believe she would need to have it notarized. She would need a valid ID and proof of her residence for notary in most states.
Thank you!
I have just read the form and no where does it state that ANY identification or notarization is required on a claimant's petition. It can be MAILED to the court and does not require an in-person filing of the form. When the petitioner signs the form they are making a legal declaration that they are entitled to make such a claim in the case.
(http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy67/droopinghalo/claimantpetitionformA.jpg)
(http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy67/droopinghalo/declarationB.jpg)
(http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy67/droopinghalo/PetitiondeclarationC.jpg)
http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/forms/fillable/de172.pdf
What you have posted is form DE-172, and that is for a Creditor's Claim.
Mocienne Petit Jackson filed a Petition For Probate (Probate Decedents Estate) through form DE-111. You can find it here: http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/forms/fillable/de111.pdf (http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/forms/fillable/de111.pdf)
Nowhere on this form are instructions to the petitioner be found on how it needs to be filed, and what is required.
Though I posted the wrong form as I thought she was a claimant. The correct form can also be mailed without identification or notarization. There are several other forms which must be filled out with the "Petition For Probate" form.
How do I file a Petition for Probate?
Step 1
Prepare and file the following forms (you will need to provide the original and at least one photocopy of each form). You should call the Probate Calendar Clerk in advance so that a hearing date can be assigned:
* Petition for Probate (Form DE-111, Judicial Council), and all attachments,
* Original Will (if there is one)
* Notice of Petition to Administer Estate (Form DE-121, Judicial Council)
* Duties and Liabilities of Personal Representative (Form DE-147, Judicial Council)
* Order for Probate (Form DE-140, Judicial Council)
* Letters (Form DE-150, Judicial Council)
You may also need to file the following forms if you need to prove a Will:
* Proof of Holographic Instrument (Form DE-135, Judicial Council)
* Proof of Subscribing Witness (Form DE-131, Judicial Council)
Step 2
Give proper notice by mail to all interested persons.
Step 3
Arrange for publication in the proper newspaper. (List of local newspapers)
Step 4
File the Proof of Service by Mail (see section on "Who should get notice") and Proof of Publication (see section on "How do I publish") with the court.
Step 5
File your Bond, if required.
Step 6
Appear before the court at the scheduled hearing date. After the hearing, file the signed Order for Probate and Letters in the Clerk's Office and get certified copies, if desired.
http://www.scselfservice.org/probate/prop/howtofileapetitionforprobate3.htm#2
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MPJ filed: "'Authorization to administer under Independent Administration of Estates Act'"
The petition filed by MPJ is a Petition for Probate (Probate Decedents Estates): http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/forms/documents/de111.pdf (http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/forms/documents/de111.pdf) The marked checkbox shows "Authorization to Administer Under the Independent Administration of Estates Act".
Authorization to administer under Independent Administration of Estates Act: The California Probate Code allows a somewhat simplified formal probate administration. Essentially, it eliminates the requirement of obtaining court approval for many of the common transactions undertaken by the personal representative. However, some actions are not exempt and require either express court approval or written notice to all beneficiaries of a proposed course of action, giving them a period of 15 days in which to lodge an objection before the action is taken (§§ 10400-10600).
http://www.monstermind.com/John%20C.%20 ... 202002.htm (http://www.monstermind.com/John%20C.%20Bost%20Uploaded%202.18.99/Chap04%202002.htm)
Since we can only see a small part of MPJ's petition on the screenshot we have no idea what is marked or written in addition.
[/b]
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I am also somewhat confused by the use of this form. I don't know anything about wills and not US probate but isn't this form for the administration of an estate as the administrator?
Is MPJ asking to be made the estates administrator and not just a claimant?
She also isn't a US resident...
How do I get appointed as personal representative? Do you qualify and are you entitled to be appointed?
* Qualifications:
If you are named in a Will to act as executor, you will be eligible to serve if you are over 18 years old and are not subject to a conservatorship or otherwise unable to perform the duties of a personal representative.
If you are not named as executor, or if the decedent did not have a Will, you must also be a resident of the U.S. and have priority to be appointed as administrator (if there is no Will) or administrator-with-Will-annexed (if there is a Will but you are not named as executor).
* Priority for appointment:
If there is no Will, or if the Will does not nominate an executor (or the persons nominated are unable to serve due to death or because they do not want to serve), then persons related to the decedent are entitled to be appointed in the following order.
o Surviving Spouse (BUT: if a divorce action has been filed but not completed before the decedent's death and the surviving spouse was living separate and apart from the decedent at the date of death, then the surviving spouse is entitled to appointment after the decedent's brothers and sisters)
o Children
o Grandchildren
o Other issue
o Parents
o Brothers and sisters (including half brothers and sisters, but not stepbrothers and stepsisters – see issue of a predeceased spouse)
o Issue of brothers and sisters (nieces and nephews)
o Grandparents
o Issue of grandparents (aunts and uncles first, then cousins)
o Children of a predeceased spouse
o Other issue of a predeceased spouse
o Other next of kin
o Parents of a predeceased spouse
o Issue of parents of a predeceased spouse
o Conservator or guardian of the estate acting in that capacity at the time of death who has filed a first account and is not acting as conservator or guardian for any other person
o Public Administrator
o Creditors
o Any other person (neighbors, friends, other non-relatives)
A person who has priority for appointment but does not wish to serve may decline and nominate another person as personal representative. If you wish to appointed but there are other family members higher in priority, each one of those persons must decline to serve, in writing.
There is no special or printed form to nominate or decline to serve. You must prepare an attachment for each person as a part of the Petition for Probate. A person named as executor may also decline to serve as executor and nominate another person, but an executor does not have the right to name a successor executor or co-executor.
http://www.scselfservice.org/probate/prop/howtofileapetitionforprobate3.htm#2
Is this even the correct form that she has filled out?
Is there a lawyer familiar with probate on the site who can answer the questions about all this?
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Since we're all confused I picked up the phone and called a law firm in the United States which specializes in probate law. I was given the email address of an attorney that would be able to answer my questions.
I just sent him an email with the question about identifying yourself or not when filing a petition for probate, and I also asked him:
My second question is about the Michael Jackson Estate. When I go to the website of the LA Superior Court it says:
Case Summary
Case Number: BP117321
JACKSON, MICHAEL JOSEPH - DECEDENT
Filing Date: 06/29/2009
Case Type: Letters of Administration (General Jurisdiction)
Status: Judgment by Court-Petition denied 11/17/2009
Can you please explain to me what "Status: Judgment by Court-Petition denied" means?
As soon as I have received an answer I will post it here.[/b]
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Since we're all confused I picked up the phone and called a law firm in the United States which specializes in probate law. I was given the email address of an attorney that would be able to answer my questions.
I just sent him an email with the question about identifying yourself or not when filing a petition for probate, and I also asked him:
My second question is about the Michael Jackson Estate. When I go to the website of the LA Superior Court it says:
Case Summary
Case Number: BP117321
JACKSON, MICHAEL JOSEPH - DECEDENT
Filing Date: 06/29/2009
Case Type: Letters of Administration (General Jurisdiction)
Status: Judgment by Court-Petition denied 11/17/2009
Can you please explain to me what "Status: Judgment by Court-Petition denied" means?
As soon as I have received an answer I will post it here.[/b]
I also again ask if a "Petition For Probate", is asking the court to make you the administrator of the estate. If so, her petition will be denied because she isn't a resident of the United States and that is the first thing it says under "Qualifications":
"If you are not named as executor, or if the decedent did not have a Will, you must also be a resident of the U.S. and have priority to be appointed as administrator."
This would not go any further than the first hearing and most likely end pretty quickly. There would be no DNA order or anything like that.
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another billie jean, they do anything 4 money :P :shock: :oops:
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Thank you for explaining, these legal matters, they are very confused
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Maybe its also worth to look back a little bit?
http://www.tmz.com/2010/04/12/michael-j ... urt-wacky/ (http://www.tmz.com/2010/04/12/michael-jackson-estate-lawsuits-creditors-claim-reject-court-wacky/)
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My first questions are: How did she manage to get the name Jackson back on her legal document, showing her identity? Filing a petition would require identification I'd say, right? If so (and if this claim is real) then she must have shown a passport or ID stating her legal name is Mocienne Elizabeth Petit Jackson. If her legal last name is Jackson, then a person with the last name Jackson must have given permission to adopt the Jackson name, or she must have shown a legal birth certificate stating her last name is Jackson. The last option immediately leads to a new question: if she possesses a birth certificate stating her last name is Jackson, then why would she wait until after June 3 2009 to change her last name?
When an individual legally changes their name, they must surrender their old Birth Certificate and it is destroyed. They are then issued a new Birth Certificate with this new name. This is done even if you are only adding a last name. The only instance that this does not occur in is if a woman gets married and assumes her husband's last name.
So she could have changed her name legally and then she would have a Birth Certificate with that name on it. All other identification such as passports, certificates etc. would also then be in that name as well. People with delusional disorder frequently function normally except in regards to their delusion. If she believes that her real name is Jackson and Katherine removed that from her Birth Certificate, she may have in her mind, put things right by changing her last name to "Jackson"
My daughters last name was legally changed a few years ago, as I remarried and my husband adopted her, her biological father was on her original birth certificate, and we did not have to surrender her birth certificate. It may have just been because of the circumstances or where we live, just thought I would add this.
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My first questions are: How did she manage to get the name Jackson back on her legal document, showing her identity? Filing a petition would require identification I'd say, right? If so (and if this claim is real) then she must have shown a passport or ID stating her legal name is Mocienne Elizabeth Petit Jackson. If her legal last name is Jackson, then a person with the last name Jackson must have given permission to adopt the Jackson name, or she must have shown a legal birth certificate stating her last name is Jackson. The last option immediately leads to a new question: if she possesses a birth certificate stating her last name is Jackson, then why would she wait until after June 3 2009 to change her last name?
When an individual legally changes their name, they must surrender their old Birth Certificate and it is destroyed. They are then issued a new Birth Certificate with this new name. This is done even if you are only adding a last name. The only instance that this does not occur in is if a woman gets married and assumes her husband's last name.
So she could have changed her name legally and then she would have a Birth Certificate with that name on it. All other identification such as passports, certificates etc. would also then be in that name as well. People with delusional disorder frequently function normally except in regards to their delusion. If she believes that her real name is Jackson and Katherine removed that from her Birth Certificate, she may have in her mind, put things right by changing her last name to "Jackson"
My daughters last name was legally changed a few years ago, as I remarried and my husband adopted her, her biological father was on her original birth certificate, and we did not have to surrender her birth certificate. It may have just been because of the circumstances or where we live, just thought I would add this.
I just changed my son last name last month and had to surrender his Birth Certificate. I posted the letter on here in another thread but I live in Canada. I figured it would be the same in other countries because with that Birth Certificate you can ALL other identification made in that alias.
(http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy67/droopinghalo/Namechangeletter.jpg)
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My first questions are: How did she manage to get the name Jackson back on her legal document, showing her identity? Filing a petition would require identification I'd say, right? If so (and if this claim is real) then she must have shown a passport or ID stating her legal name is Mocienne Elizabeth Petit Jackson. If her legal last name is Jackson, then a person with the last name Jackson must have given permission to adopt the Jackson name, or she must have shown a legal birth certificate stating her last name is Jackson. The last option immediately leads to a new question: if she possesses a birth certificate stating her last name is Jackson, then why would she wait until after June 3 2009 to change her last name?
When an individual legally changes their name, they must surrender their old Birth Certificate and it is destroyed. They are then issued a new Birth Certificate with this new name. This is done even if you are only adding a last name. The only instance that this does not occur in is if a woman gets married and assumes her husband's last name.
So she could have changed her name legally and then she would have a Birth Certificate with that name on it. All other identification such as passports, certificates etc. would also then be in that name as well. People with delusional disorder frequently function normally except in regards to their delusion. If she believes that her real name is Jackson and Katherine removed that from her Birth Certificate, she may have in her mind, put things right by changing her last name to "Jackson"
My daughters last name was legally changed a few years ago, as I remarried and my husband adopted her, her biological father was on her original birth certificate, and we did not have to surrender her birth certificate. It may have just been because of the circumstances or where we live, just thought I would add this.
I just changed my son last name last month and had to surrender his Birth Certificate. I posted the letter on here in another thread but I live in Canada. I figured it would be the same in other countries because with that Birth Certificate you can ALL other identification made in that alias.
(http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy67/droopinghalo/Namechangeletter.jpg)
I am in US North Carolina and I still have her old birth certificate. I guess maybe it has to do with location then :? I will see if I can find my letter ans post it on here but it will be later today, I have a few things to take care of first. Kids go back to school tommarow!!!!!!!!!! Yeah!
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State Name Change Law Information
This is our collection of NAME CHANGE LAW information and links to all of the states. Each link leads to an area of this web site which is devoted to the name change law of a particular state.
http://www.namechangelaw.com/states.htm (http://www.namechangelaw.com/states.htm)
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I am in US North Carolina and I still have her old birth certificate. I guess maybe it has to do with location then :? I will see if I can find my letter ans post it on here but it will be later today, I have a few things to take care of first. Kids go back to school tommarow!!!!!!!!!! Yeah!
I am not sure why you still have that Birth Certificate. Birth Certificates are required to get other forms of identification so it seems unusual because this may allow your child to get another completely different set of ID in that name. I have been reading on this issue and this is what I have found.
The Adoption Process
In most states, there are three main types of procedures for adopting a stepchild. Which one you will follow depends on the circumstances in your family.
Changing Your Adopted Child’s Name
As part of the adoption, your stepchild’s last name can be changed to any name on which you, your spouse and your stepchild all agree. Many people choose to have the child’s last name changed to the adoptive father’s, though you can use a last name that has no connection with either your name or your spouse’s. To change your stepchild’s name, put the new name in the adoption decree; the change becomes legally effective when the decree is filed with the court.
You can have the child’s birth certificate amended to reflect the new name. Whether or not your stepchild’s name is being changed, the birth certificate can still be changed to show you as the parent. The name of the absent parent is removed and you are shown as the parent. No mention is made in the new birth certificate of the adoption; the certificate will appear the same as it would if you were the natural parent. The old birth certificate is sealed and can only be unsealed by a court order. An amended birth certificate is not required by law, even if your stepchild’s name is changed on the adoption decree. But most people, thinking of the confusing situations that may arise for a stepchild in later years, choose to have the birth certificate changed if the stepchild’s name is changed. Since you, your spouse, and your stepchild (if she is old enough to reason) have quite a bit of leeway regarding the name change and birth certificate, you may wish to kick around the pros and cons in a three-way conference.
http://reliableadoption.com/adoptprocess.htm
This situation though is different than other types of adoption as well as changing a minor child's name for other reasons. It is also different than an adult changing their name.
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California Department of Public Health: http://www.sfdph.org/dph/files/vitalRec ... 072009.pdf (http://www.sfdph.org/dph/files/vitalRecsDocs/courtOrderNameChnge072009.pdf)
Amending a Birth Certificate After a Court Order Name Change
I want to change my name on my birth certificate. Can I do this without going to court?
No. The law does not allow us to completely change the registrant’s name on a birth certificate unless the registrant has his or her name legally changed through the court process. Only information that was erroneously entered at the time of registration can be amended without going to court.
[...]
I was born in California, but I changed my name in another state. Are court orders from other states acceptable?
Yes. If you obtained your court order from a court in another state, district, or territory of the United States, the order can be used to amend a California birth certificate.
Exception: If you reside in Hawaii, we cannot accept a name change issued by the Office of the Lieutenant Governor, because it is an administrative procedure and does not comply with California law.
Residents of Hawaii must petition the court in Hawaii or another U.S. state or territory.
After I get the court order, what do I submit to amend my birth certificate?
- You will need to complete an Application for Amendment of Birth Record to Reflect Court Order Change of Name, VS 23.
- You must include a certified copy of the court order name change. (See next section for explanation of “certified” copy.)
We do not return the court order after the amended birth certificate is prepared. - Although this item is not required, it would help our staff if you could include a photocopy of the current birth certificate if you have it (this helps us identify the exact record to be amended).
- Mail the following items to our office using the address on the front of this pamphlet:
* Completed VS 23
* $ 20 fee
* Certified copy of the court order
* Photocopy of current birth certificate (if you have it) - If any of the required items are not included, your request will be returned to you for correction.
[...]
Once I file the amendment, what happens to my original birth certificate?
- The original record remains unchanged, and the amendment becomes page 2 of the birth certificate – making it a two-page document (per Health and Safety Code Sections 102140 and 103255).
- Anyone receiving a copy after the amendment is applied will receive a copy of both documents.
This makes it perfectly clear that in California the old Birth Certificate is not to be surrendered for it to be destroyed after a court order name change.
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So I guess you don't need proof from me then? I have my letter of adoption and both birth certificates.
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So I guess you don't need proof from me then? I have my letter of adoption and both birth certificates.
If you want to, PLEASE post them... That for sure will end this discussion about having to surrender the old birth certificate after a name change in the United States, and that is what this was all about!
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So I guess you don't need proof from me then? I have my letter of adoption and both birth certificates.
If you want to, PLEASE post them... That for sure will end this discussion about having to surrender the old birth certificate after a name change in the United States, and that is what this was all about!
Okay, but I am computer stupid. I have scanned them onto my computer, now how do I post them on here? :oops: I want to post them I just need help doing it!
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At the bottom of the reply field you will see a tab that says "Upload attachment. Click the tab, hit the "Browse" button to find the file on your computer and then hit the "Add the file" button. Repeat the same steps for every file you want to attach.
If you still have problems, you can email them to me and then I will post them for you: You are not allowed to view links.
Register or Login
Please make sure to redact ALL your personal information before attaching or emailing your files!
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At the bottom of the reply field you will see a tab that says "Upload attachment. Click the tab, hit the "Browse" button to find the file on your computer and then hit the "Add the file" button. Repeat the same steps for every file you want to attach.
If you still have problems, you can email them to me and then I will post them for you: You are not allowed to view links.
Register or Login
Please make sure to redact ALL your personal information before attaching or emailing your files!
I sent you an email! If you don't get it let me know
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At the bottom of the reply field you will see a tab that says "Upload attachment. Click the tab, hit the "Browse" button to find the file on your computer and then hit the "Add the file" button. Repeat the same steps for every file you want to attach.
If you still have problems, you can email them to me and then I will post them for you: You are not allowed to view links.
Register or Login
Please make sure to redact ALL your personal information before attaching or emailing your files!
I sent you an email! If you don't get it let me know
I received your email, and have already sent you a reply!
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I understand Mo! I sent you a reply, you just do what you think is best.
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ConfusedLOVE sent me all the documents. I have seen the old birth certificate, the adoption papers and the new birth certificate. She is telling the truth.
Because after redacting certain things there is in my opinion still too much personal information on the certificates, I told her I wasn't comfortable with publishing them. We agreed on not publishing them here, but instead I would post a message confirming seeing them.
Thank you ConfusedLOVE for totally clarifying this issue!
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ConfusedLOVE sent me all the documents. I have seen the old birth certificate, the adoption papers and the new birth certificate. She is telling the truth.
Because after redacting certain things there is in my opinion still too much personal information on the certificates, I told her I wasn't comfortable with publishing them. We agreed on not publishing them here, but instead I would post a message confirming seeing them.
Thank you ConfusedLOVE for totally clarifying this issue!
No problem, and thank you Mo for be honest and telling me that there was still too much personal info on them!
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That for sure will end this discussion about having to surrender the old birth certificate after a name change in the United States, and that is what this was all about![/b]
So are you saying that MPJ changed her name in the US, cause she isn't American is she?
I thought she was Belgium or Haitian.
If the laws are different in every country (as they obviously are in Canada and the US and they differ from state to state in US), I am not sure that this has solved the MPJ questions though.
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That for sure will end this discussion about having to surrender the old birth certificate after a name change in the United States, and that is what this was all about![/b]
So are you saying that MPJ changed her name in the US, cause she isn't American is she?
I thought she was Belgium or Haitian.
If the laws are different in every country (as they obviously are in Canada and the US and they differ from state to state in US), I am not sure that this has solved the MPJ questions though.
I want to emphasize that as of now, we have no idea what MPJ's nationality is. Last Thursday I called the Haitian embassy and asked that if a baby is born in Haiti, will it automatically get the Haitian nationality. The answer was: "No, that depends on the nationality of the parents.".
For sure she is not Dutch, as she could not have her name changed to Jackson in just a year time, that procedure takes longer. She would also have needed to prove that a Jackson is her father and that person would have to give permission to adopt his last name.
As far as I know we are trying to find out what it takes to change your name in the United States, just to see if she could have pulled it off..
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ConfusedLOVE sent me all the documents. I have seen the old birth certificate, the adoption papers and the new birth certificate. She is telling the truth.
Because after redacting certain things there is in my opinion still too much personal information on the certificates, I told her I wasn't comfortable with publishing them. We agreed on not publishing them here, but instead I would post a message confirming seeing them.
Thank you ConfusedLOVE for totally clarifying this issue!
Hi Mo,
does it mean she is MJ daughter and B. Ross loved child? This is what I am understanding. Can you please elaborate so I can understand better. I know you cannot show us the documentations. Thanks so much . God Bless.
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ConfusedLOVE sent me all the documents. I have seen the old birth certificate, the adoption papers and the new birth certificate. She is telling the truth.
Because after redacting certain things there is in my opinion still too much personal information on the certificates, I told her I wasn't comfortable with publishing them. We agreed on not publishing them here, but instead I would post a message confirming seeing them.
Thank you ConfusedLOVE for totally clarifying this issue!
Hi Mo,
does it mean she is MJ daughter and B. Ross loved child? This is what I am understanding. Can you please elaborate so I can understand better. I know you cannot show us the documentations. Thanks so much . God Bless.
Oh no! ConfusedLOVE sent me the documents of her own daughter, not the documents of Mocienne Petit Jackson. I appologize in case I have caused any confusion!
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ConfusedLOVE sent me all the documents. I have seen the old birth certificate, the adoption papers and the new birth certificate. She is telling the truth.
Because after redacting certain things there is in my opinion still too much personal information on the certificates, I told her I wasn't comfortable with publishing them. We agreed on not publishing them here, but instead I would post a message confirming seeing them.
Thank you ConfusedLOVE for totally clarifying this issue!
Hi Mo,
does it mean she is MJ daughter and B. Ross loved child? This is what I am understanding. Can you please elaborate so I can understand better. I know you cannot show us the documentations. Thanks so much . God Bless.
Oh no! ConfusedLOVE sent me the documents of her own daughter, not the documents of Mocienne Petit Jackson. I appologize in case I have caused any confusion!
Thanks Mo for your response. I thought It was Mocienne's certificate. Thank God :lol: I probably read wrong. Thanks again. Love always
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[/quote] Mo
For sure she is not Dutch, as she could not have her name changed to Jackson in just a year time, that procedure takes longer. She would also have needed to prove that a Jackson is her father and that person would have to give permission to adopt his last name.
As far as I know we are trying to find out what it takes to change your name in the United States, just to see if she could have pulled it off..[/quote]
as for a name change: my birth certificate was changed/ reissued when my mother remarried. i still have a paper that declares my 'descent', stating my biological mom and dad. but my birth certificate was changed and my stepdad's new name was put in there, which from then on was my maiden name.
my son was born before his dad and i married and his birth certificate was also changed after marriage. in this case, the parents stayed the same, but his birth name on the original certificate was my maiden name. so the name and document change can come with a marriage of the mother. that makes the first document invalid. i'm in germany, so i don't know if the same rules in the states apply.
another option: have a jackson adopt you and do the same, change name and docs accordingly.
:mrgreen:
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Mo
For sure she is not Dutch, as she could not have her name changed to Jackson in just a year time, that procedure takes longer. She would also have needed to prove that a Jackson is her father and that person would have to give permission to adopt his last name.
----and where is miss Petit's original birthcertificate from a town in Haiti on which is the name of her birthmother????? Once she produces that she will be taken a little bit more serious she should have started her battle with that birthcertificate. Barbara Ross stated, in a phone interview, that Mocienne has been e-mailing her for years......why didn't she put a stop to that?
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That for sure will end this discussion about having to surrender the old birth certificate after a name change in the United States, and that is what this was all about![/b]
So are you saying that MPJ changed her name in the US, cause she isn't American is she?
I thought she was Belgium or Haitian.
If the laws are different in every country (as they obviously are in Canada and the US and they differ from state to state in US), I am not sure that this has solved the MPJ questions though.
I want to emphasize that as of now, we have no idea what MPJ's nationality is. Last Thursday I called the Haitian embassy and asked that if a baby is born in Haiti, will it automatically get the Haitian nationality. The answer was: "No, that depends on the nationality of the parents.".
For sure she is not Dutch, as she could not have her name changed to Jackson in just a year time, that procedure takes longer. She would also have needed to prove that a Jackson is her father and that person would have to give permission to adopt his last name.
As far as I know we are trying to find out what it takes to change your name in the United States, just to see if she could have pulled it off..
Regarding a name change in the States, I just saw this on TMZ:
http://www.tmz.com/ (http://www.tmz.com/)
Portia to Ellen: I Want to Be a DeGeneres!
8/9/2010 11:51 AM PDT by TMZ Staff
TMZ has learned ... Portia de Rossi will become Portia DeGeneres.
Ellen DeGeneres Wife - Portia de Rossi Name Change
Portia has filed a petition to legally change her name to Portia Lee James DeGeneres. She filed the papers in L.A. County Superior Court last Friday.
As for why ... the petition says, "Petitioner is taking the last name of her spouse."
Portia and Ellen DeGeneres were married in August, 2008.
Name change petitions are routinely granted.
More Ellen DeGeneres
* Ellen on California Gay Marriage Ruling -- 'Equality Won'
* Ellen DeGeneres Votes Herself Off 'American Idol'
* Ellen's New Label Signs YouTube 'Paparazzi' Kid
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newoldfan in this case she takes the surname of his wife, and also has two more names, not if I explain it
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Mo..in perspective here on the name change to file the petition. You can actually fill out that paperwork (I am assuming this is here in the US and I haven't even read it...duh!) without ID but when the clerk goes to record it I believe she would need to have it notarized. She would need a valid ID and proof of her residence for notary in most states.
Thank you!
I have just read the form and no where does it state that ANY identification or notarization is required on a claimant's petition. It can be MAILED to the court and does not require an in-person filing of the form. When the petitioner signs the form they are making a legal declaration that they are entitled to make such a claim in the case.
(http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy67/droopinghalo/claimantpetitionformA.jpg)
(http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy67/droopinghalo/declarationB.jpg)
(http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy67/droopinghalo/PetitiondeclarationC.jpg)
http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/forms/fillable/de172.pdf
What you have posted is form DE-172, and that is for a Creditor's Claim.
Mocienne Petit Jackson filed a Petition For Probate (Probate Decedents Estate) through form DE-111. You can find it here: http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/forms/fillable/de111.pdf (http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/forms/fillable/de111.pdf)
Nowhere on this form are instructions to the petitioner be found on how it needs to be filed, and what is required.
Though I posted the wrong form as I thought she was a claimant. The correct form can also be mailed without identification or notarization. There are several other forms which must be filled out with the "Petition For Probate" form.
How do I file a Petition for Probate?
Step 1
Prepare and file the following forms (you will need to provide the original and at least one photocopy of each form). You should call the Probate Calendar Clerk in advance so that a hearing date can be assigned:
* Petition for Probate (Form DE-111, Judicial Council), and all attachments,
* Original Will (if there is one)
* Notice of Petition to Administer Estate (Form DE-121, Judicial Council)
* Duties and Liabilities of Personal Representative (Form DE-147, Judicial Council)
* Order for Probate (Form DE-140, Judicial Council)
* Letters (Form DE-150, Judicial Council)
You may also need to file the following forms if you need to prove a Will:
* Proof of Holographic Instrument (Form DE-135, Judicial Council)
* Proof of Subscribing Witness (Form DE-131, Judicial Council)
Step 2
Give proper notice by mail to all interested persons.
Step 3
Arrange for publication in the proper newspaper. (List of local newspapers)
Step 4
File the Proof of Service by Mail (see section on "Who should get notice") and Proof of Publication (see section on "How do I publish") with the court.
Step 5
File your Bond, if required.
Step 6
Appear before the court at the scheduled hearing date. After the hearing, file the signed Order for Probate and Letters in the Clerk's Office and get certified copies, if desired.
http://www.scselfservice.org/probate/prop/howtofileapetitionforprobate3.htm#2
I think we were confused at what I was saying. I was saying that when it was actually recorded as fact with a court, but nonetheless the personal representative absolutely has to show proof of ID. I am not sure why that is not on your list that you found, and I have never been able to get a bond without an ID, so that may have been accountability.
Supplemental form for Personal Representative Here
Confidential Supplement (Form DE-147S, Judicial Council)
http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/forms/fillable/de147s.pdf (http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/forms/fillable/de147s.pdf)
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Since we're all confused I picked up the phone and called a law firm in the United States which specializes in probate law. I was given the email address of an attorney that would be able to answer my questions.
I just sent him an email with the question about identifying yourself or not when filing a petition for probate, and I also asked him:
My second question is about the Michael Jackson Estate. When I go to the website of the LA Superior Court it says:
Case Summary
Case Number: BP117321
JACKSON, MICHAEL JOSEPH - DECEDENT
Filing Date: 06/29/2009
Case Type: Letters of Administration (General Jurisdiction)
Status: Judgment by Court-Petition denied 11/17/2009
Can you please explain to me what "Status: Judgment by Court-Petition denied" means?
As soon as I have received an answer I will post it here.[/b]
Mo, you could call the court of clerks of the county that is handling the case as well. Just ask for filing requirements and at what point and whom would need ID. Since the clerk is paid by the state and not privately it is easier to get answers.