Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators
Welcome! => MJDHI Announcements => Topic started by: ~Souza~ on August 18, 2010, 10:28:43 PM
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I believe what people failed to realize was that Michael was a human being.
I still think many fail to realize that, even his fans. I am posting this because there is a lot I need to get off my chest.
This hoax has been an emotional roller coaster for me. I have laughed, I have been confused (and still are most of the time), I have had dozens of brain reboots, I have cried my eyes out, I have finally met the true me, I have learned what I expect from myself and this short visit on earth and I believe I am a close witness to "What Will Go Down In History As The Greatest Demonstration For Freedom...". That is why this is important to me, because if I would have thought that he only hoaxed his death because he wanted to outdo Thriller, I would have walked away months ago, although I do like this aspect of the story as well. But lately what I feel most is sadness and even disgust.
This hoax is turning into something that is the opposite of its original purpose. The hoax community is full of hate, back stabbing, (death)threats and blogs and forums are lately platforms to share personal information of other members, just because they think it's 'important' for the hoax. Why would that be important and don't they see the danger in that? The very person who HATED all these things is actually the one who attracted it and I am sure that hurts him more than some people can imagine.
Besides that I see too many threads about him that have subjects like:
"Oh my God, he's so hot"
"MJ sexy with glasses"
"MJ sexy with tongue"
And other titles like that. Please let me remind you that the "Videos of Michael" sub forum is for videos unrelated to the hoax. Videos of tours or performances or things like that, but absolutely not to dissect the man or to share your fantasies. Same goes for the "Pictures of Michael" sub forum. There is no sub forum "Fan fiction" so please refrain from posting it in the future. This is an investigation site and not a fan forum. Do you think he would enjoy reading that? Is that all he is about? The outside?
One of the This Is It posters said: "Discover the man you never knew". By reading fan fiction and threads like mentioned above, you won't discover that man. You will stick with your fantasies and will keep seeing everything through your pink glasses. If that's your cup of tea then that is fine, but not on this forum.
So here I return to the quote at the beginning of this post: 'I believe what people failed to realize was that Michael was a human being.'
People did and still are. He's made of flesh and blood, like all of us. Besides all the angelic features, I am certain he has his other side too. We are all not our best 24/7. I am sure he can be cranky, angry, unreasonable and a pain in the butt as well. If he needs to go, he needs to go and will have to wipe his own ass. I know most of you don't like that thought, but that is one thing I can certainly say is the truth.
But most of all, he can hurt. Physically as in fans tearing him apart just to get a piece of him and mentally by all the shit that has been reported and all the false accusations against him.
Then the ridicule of some theories and thoughts. Please refrain from commenting that something is ridiculous before you have actually read up on it. I remember some of us discussed that Michael could have Asperger's Syndrome. Some reactions and I paraphrase: "Ridiculous, Michael is not an autist". That can hurt! First of all, I am certain that there might be people on here that have some sort of autism or Asperger's, who can confirm that. Read up on autism and Asperger's and then comment. If you still don't agree that is fine, but at least you can post your arguments and keep up a healthy discussion. I am familiar with Asperger's and I really think it's a possibility he has AS. He is human, he can have disorders (although I don't really think the word disorder really fits AS) because he is human. It's not something he has control over. And I can imagine that IF he has AS, comments like the above are not really nice to read.
On a side note: Here is a video about Carly Fleischmann, who has severe autism (NOT Asperger's). Just this video alone will let you take a peek behind the screen about autism. It's inspirational and shows how people can be misjudged because of their outside:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7U1UjZzJLE[/youtube]
Take off your pink glasses and try to think outside the box sometimes. Don't try to think or answer for him, because none of us can. Instead, try to imagine what you would do, or think. Mostly that is closer to the truth than when you try to form an opinion based on a person you have never met and idolize that much. He is a son, a brother, a father and a friend. At the end of the day, he needs to change his underwear. His dirty laundry is as dirty as ours and when he bumps his little toe I am sure he won't say "Hee Hee". He bruises when you pinch him hard enough and when you cut him he bleeds...
I am not at all being disrespectful and I am not judging anyone in particular. I know you all love him and I know you all want the best for him. That would be leaving him in one piece, instead of aspire to get a piece. I am only trying to make you see that he might be Michael Jackson, he might be tough, but in the end we're all the same and this hoax should be about L.O.V.E. and not H.A.T.E. I hope we can turn that tide before it's too late. The world is fucked up enough already and we have more important things to be passionate about. Save your energy for later.
Here is something to think about:
'The prince asks the narrator to draw a sheep. Not knowing how to draw a sheep, the narrator shows the prince a picture that he had previously drawn: a boa with an elephant in its stomach (a drawing which previous viewers mistook for a hat). "No! No!" exclaims the prince. "I don't want a boa constrictor from the inside or outside. I want a sheep!" He tries a few sheep drawings, which the prince rejects. Finally he draws a box, which he explains has the sheep inside. The prince, who can see the sheep inside the box just as well as he can see the elephant in the boa, says "That's perfect.".'
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*Applauds* You took the words right out of my mouth. I've actually been told I'm not a fan because I believe MJ might have something similar or for expressing my opinion about human things he might do. So I'm glad someone else feels the same way I do and actually sees that he's a man and have both positive and negative things about him. No one on this earth is perfect. A few of the medications that were listed that he's taken are some of the same meds I've been on for my medical conditions. I'm currently Diagnosed as ADHD and Bipolar, but I've been doing some research and talking to my doctor and I believe I may suffer from Asperger's. I have a first cousin who is also Autistic but he is the extreme form. Maybe some time we can talk more about this soon.
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Bravo Souza, this has been a long time coming.
That clip of Carly is one of the most touching things i think i've ever seen.
I think after all these months, maybe some people need to take a breath....
L.O.V.E to you all
x x x x
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Thank you for this post Souza.......Finally someone has said it. Lets get on with the show.....investigating a hoaxed death. xoxo
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Souza -
I'm glad you said all of this, because I have been thinking most of the same things for quite some time now. I find it sad that you even have to post a thread reminding people that Michael is a person or what the purpose of a site called "Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators" is.
Recently, I've found myself contemplating whether I really want to wade through all of the "fluff" just to find the few worthwhile facts buried in some post somewhere. Don't get me wrong - I like to read other people's opinions as long as they contribute something to the topic. But like many here, I have a life. If I spend an hour here, I want it to count. That seems to happen a lot less often these days. I find it so frustrating to see a post topic that looks interesting, only to find that halfway down the first page it takes a left turn and ends up going 180 degrees because someone said something in a post and someone else got offended, or someone posts a "pretty pic of Mike" and then there are 15 ooh's and aah's about it. Case in point: Just yesterday I read a post by Serenity's Prayer where she(?) felt that maybe it was time to leave this site because of the reactions she gets to many of her "unpopular" opinions. Who could blame her, when she spends more time explaining herself to people than having a discussion about the information she provides? (Personally, I would consider her leaving a loss for the entire forum.)
Sometimes this forum feels more like a social networking site instead of a place to find great, solid information about the hoax. I've been here only 2 months and I often feel discouraged by "go nowhere" threads. I can only imagine how someone who is not a die hard, life-long MJ fan, coming to this site for the first time to see what the hoax is all about, must feel. How many are going to stick around long enough to wade through it all? There are so many posts that I feel would be better handled through PM between members. I don't really care to read a half-page back and forth between two people that has nothing to do with the topic of the thread.
If I may...I'd like to add a couple of things:
1. Why are people here if they don't want to read? There were several times where I found someone posted a question that was already asked and answered earlier in the very same thread. If you want to read only the last post - or 2 or 3 - so be it. But would it really kill anyone who is thinking of posting a reply to take the time and read the entire thread before doing so? Maybe the question was already discussed at length on the first page.
2. If it were up to me, I'd lose the emoticons. Imagine how many pointless posts would be eliminated. When I see someone post :shock: and nothing else, my first thought is always, "And I care...why?" What does that do for the discussion or the hoax?
I know I'm not perfect, and I don't claim to be. I may have, at one point or another, done the very same things that I just claimed are aggravating. But I do make a conscious effort to post only when I think I can add something to the discussion, and I try to make statements that start with "I think" or "I feel" because I can only speak for myself - not Michael, and not anyone else here.
I really hope what you posted, Souza, brings this site back around to what you envisioned it to be.
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Amen to that.
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WTG SOUZA
:D
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I know what you mean, Ice, but could there be even a little truth to what the Admin wrote? (Edit: what happened to Ice's post?)
We all deserve to be treated with respect. Life would be pretty boring if we all thought the same way.
My fellow hoaxers, I've grown so fond of you over these past months. But please know that there is value in learning to read the heart of the messenger and not just his/her words as those are often misinterpreted. If you need proof, look at the life of Michael Jackson. His words were forever being misinterpreted and twisted. But, look at his heart and it was the same at age 50 as it was at age 20.
I, for one, get embarrassed by some of the comments and videos that I stumble across here. Yes, they are of our beloved Michael and I like to see his beautiful smile like all of you. I even go to youtube on a regular basis to get my fix of the Come Together video - LOL. But, some of the comments I read are as disrespectful to the man as non-fans calling him filthy and degrading names (in my humble opinion). I also realize that there are young people on this forum and I try to consider what I'd want my young relatives to read before I make a comment.
While I may not agree to everything said above, I do know how the Admin feels. I sometimes wonder if we've gone off track a little bit, looking more to find the juicy, tongue-wagging stories rather than investigating and finding the truth. No matter how much the truth might hurt. I think about the recent poster named callofthewild. Has anyone realized that the person has stopped posting? Is it because he/she was attacked for not giving us the information that we wanted to hear? Please don't attack me for saying this because I say it in love. Not everything we read or hear will be the truth. But not everything we read or hear will be lies either. We need to filter everything through an open, non-judgmental, and loving mind, and leave our feelings at the door. I know it's difficult - even for me. Feelings (or emotions) only get in the way of sound judgment.
I have grown to love Michael very much and it's more than just his looks. It's his heart, his character. I know you all feel the same way. Let's push forward in finding the truth, spreading L.O.V.E, being kind and helping others, and supporting Michael as best we know how. Let's unite as the MJ Army of L.O.V.E. to show the world what Michael's message is truly all about.
May each of you be blessed beyond belief. May the peace of God visit your homes and hearts this day. May you find joy, laughter, and happiness. May you always be safe from harm. And may you find the truth that you seek in your heart. Blessings to you.
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Amen to it all........Yes I think the vibe has changed a lot in just a few weeks. I have noticed many more posts that are rather bland. I don't mean to sound rude. The actual investigative vibe is loose. I like the pictures, the fluff....once in awhile......just to keep it light and clear the mind. There is a lot of reading...you are correct. But with that, comes the thoughts and knowledge of what is happening.
Just last night I began a post about how it must have hurt Michael to see his so-called fans turn away years ago. This hoax community bashing of each other must hurt as well. It is everything his message is against. If someone is hurting, I try very hard to put words of comfort and encouragement to them. It's the old saying, "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all".
It's worked for me.
Souza....thank you, I think you are spot on!
I truly wish each and everyone of you much peace and many blessings. It's all for love.......L.O.V.E.
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Voiceforthesilent
Not everything we read or hear will be the truth. But not everything we read or hear will be lies either. We need to filter everything through an open, non-judgmental, and loving mind, and leave our feelings at the door. I know it's difficult - even for me. Feelings (or emotions) only get in the way of sound judgment.
Not only was Michael truly human, so are each of us too. We come here from all over the map in every kind of way. I know it's a big job for you Souza and Mo, like steering a huge ship. It's good you can give us a little reminder now and then. We've all chosen to be here, and could have chosen fansites, the other MJHD site, and others. I think this one's the best, though the other sites might offer bits of info we might have missed and are good for references. About some threads seeming mostly fluff, I agree, but sometimes people might post some little thing that turns out to yield a significant find. I do wish people would name their threads with something that tells about the subject matter, instead of Wow look at this. With over a year's worth of stuff, lots of good clues get buried in obscure titles. And I agree, lets get on with the show...investigating a hoaxed death!!
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Amen to that....
Who are we to say someone is strange, weird or crazy?
Perhaps we are the one's that are strange, weird or crazy!
Everyone has his own personality....
Who are we to judge....
Love you all
Chaps
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Thanks for this Souza :D
I like the way you put all of this into 1. I do see some people going off in threads and even in different hoax forums and there is really no need for it. We can all agree to disagree not all of us will have the same feelings about EVERYTHING that is said but we can at least say it in a respectful manner :D .
I kno what you mean abt the pictures thing yes there will b times where we might see a few striking pix of Michael and that comment will come out from time to time BUT we can try to do it at the right time. At least when it won't distract others from their research ;)
Now when I first read abt Michael possibly having AS I did not dismiss it and I still won't. It is possible that he could have it but if he does or doesn't I'm still gonna love him the same. He's human so its not impossible. Im not aying he does have it and I'm not saying he doesn't. I read an article about it I will find it and post it if that's ok ;)
Thnx 4 sharing that video it has touched me and opened my eyes to research more about it :D
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Nicely said souza.
If I read something by another hoax investigator that I disagree with, if I do tell them that I disagree with their opinion or theory, I do it respectfully. I hate when other users deny my opinions in a rude way such as sarcasm or just being rude in general by calling me crazy. :roll: I usually just ignore it though. MJ is about love, not hate.
Also, about the whole Michael being attractive, I will admit some of us girls can get out of control. Sorry MJ. :oops:
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LET ME PAY MY RESPECTS TO YOU SOSA FOR THAT WISDOM WORDS!I COULDN'T BE MORE AGREE WITH YOU.WHEN I REMEMBER ABOUT MICHAEL I DON'T REMEMBER HIM LIKE THIS IDOL TO BE ADORE OR WEIRD THOUGTHS ABOUT HIM.I REMEMBER HIM AS THIS HUMANBEING HUNGRY FOR LOVE AND COMPREHENSIVE. THAT EVEN WITH THE WORLD IN HIS HANDS;HE JUST WANTED TO BE LOVED.IN HIS EYES THAT WINDOW THAT REVEALS ALL HUMANBEING SOULS YOU COULD TELL THAT HE WAS SUFFERING.HIS SAD EYES COULD TELL ALL THE LONELYNESS AND SADNESS OF HIS SOUL.I HOPE "GOD" THE ONLY OWNER OF OUR LIVES AND SOULS GIVE MICHAEL THE WAY TO BE FOLLOW.MICHAEL "GOD"IS THE ANSWER! LET "GOD" BE YOUR KING! "LOVE YOU MICHAEL"
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I'll throw in my two cents.
I agree that people fail to realize Michael was a human being. He was an intelligent and talented man, but again - people fail to realize that he was NOT a lawyer nor a mathematician, when posting hoax theories.
Secondly, if it has something to do with Michael Jackson, you must realize that fans WILL show up. I am a huge Michael Jackson fan: I love that guy's music and I respect his contribution to the entertainment industry. And yes, I think he is very attractive, but at the same time - I can admit that I am in love with the image he built around himself as the King of Pop. But everything has it's time and place, so I keep my comments for fan forums.
The reason why I needed to get that out is because non-fans have publically called fans "deranged." Even the admins themselves act as if being a fan is a bad thing, or a disease...Is it justified?
For one, I think having a crush on a flesh and blood singer is way more "normal" than having a crush on a made-up character from an anime cartoon, which is what a lot of teenagers are doing in this day and age. No disrespect intended, but I hope you see where I'm coming from.
I understand your point - that we should keep our fantasies to ourselves and I agree, but at the same time I wanted to tear down the stereotype of a typical "MJ fan," which is that we're all out of touch with reality and obsessed etc. Yes, you'll meet those people, but not all of us are like that and many of us take great offense in being treated like "loonies."
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The reason why I needed to get that out is because non-fans have publically called fans "deranged." Even the admins themselves act as if being a fan is a bad thing, or a disease...Is it justified?
We have never said that being a fan is a bad thing, or a disease. What we have tried to point out to is that a lot of fans are in love with a PR persona, and that it seems to be very difficult for a lot of fans to realize and accept that a PR persona is a creation which could be totally different from MJ's real personality. We have pointed out that a lot of fans are hindered by an emotional barrier, which makes them unable of thinking outside the box.
We have pointed out that because of that emotional barrier and the love for the PR persona, fans say "Michael would never do that". Fact is that no one knows what Mike would or wouldn't do, but by sticking to the PR persona and saying "he would never do that" people are dismissing a lot of issues in this hoax that could be very realistic.
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100% agree with Souza, sometimes we forget that Michael is a human being like all of us with his ups and downs
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Thanks for this thread Souza!
Ad Mo, I totally agree with you on this :
We have pointed out that because of that emotional barrier and the love for the PR persona, fans say "Michael would never do that". Fact is that no one knows what Mike would or wouldn't do, but by sticking to the PR persona and saying "he would never do that" people are dismissing a lot of issues in this hoax that could be very realistic.[/b]
Love to all
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Excellent post Souza, I can understand your frustrations - I'm sorry if maybe I have contributed to them at times. :oops:
Would it help to think that at least these 'fans', for want of a better word, are here, on your site, and serious things posted here may well attract their attention over time. I don't think anyone jumps in one leap, straight from liking the King of Pop (the PR persona that Mo spoke of) to admiring and respecting the man MJ. There have certainly been several 'in-between' stages for me, and many threads I just didn't look at when I first came here, until I was 'ready'.
I think the 'PR persona' is exactly what MJ intentionally developed to get people's attention. He said as much in that interview with LMP about the trailer for HIStory. He liked the controversy, he wanted everyone to sit up and take notice, not, I think, from an egotistical point of view but because he wanted everyone to hear his message.
Seems like he did too good a job on the 'sitting up' part! Maybe we can help those with that emotional barrier to start to 'take notice' too. IDK, perhaps posting links in the dodgy threads, to some of MJ's powerful speeches, poetry or writings, to encourage them to look a little deeper.
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It is difficult to see beyond the "reality" that the media constructs for us. Who is the real Michael? There is a real person behind the facade built by managers, advisors, his father, etc. There must be a valid reason for doing what he did. Souza, you are telling people to look beyond what seems "real" and try to understand what has happened. In this way, we benefit ourselves and our society and we can help Michael.
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Souza,i agree with you!!!!Thanks...
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I agree that some fans are a little insensitive and can only admire the look, the smile and the voice of Michael.
Of course, as a fan of 27 years, I am thrilled and in love with its charm, especially in the era "History", but I think the true fans, can see the human being that Michael is. Proof of this is that many mourn and has a sense of injustice for all that Michael suffered, we know how many he has always proved to be stubborn, conceited and even perhaps a bit vindictive. I particularly love Michael as a man and artist, I know he is not perfect, it has several flaws, but their qualities are very evident: humane, intelligent, talented, sensitive, good father, good son, gentle (mostly ) and why not say handsome, charming, attractive and lovely??
As for autism, I am not very convinced, but it is something to consider ... perhaps the mildest form of the disease? After all, they say that autistic people are true geniuses ... and Michael is a genius!
Unconditionally love you, Michael!! As a human being and as artist. Nobody will ever overcome you!
God be with you.
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THANK YOU SOUZA FOR YOUR WORDS...
I LOVE THAT QUOTE OF THE LITTLE PRINCE!!! I LOVE THAT BOOK, WAS THE FIRST BOOK I READ WHEN I WAS LITTLE AND STILL READ TIME TO TIME... I BOUGHT THAT BOOK FOR MY DAUGHTER 7 BIRTHDAY... (7 AGAIN, LOL!) SHE LOVE IT TOO...
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The reason why I needed to get that out is because non-fans have publically called fans "deranged." Even the admins themselves act as if being a fan is a bad thing, or a disease...Is it justified?
We have never said that being a fan is a bad thing, or a disease. What we have tried to point out to is that a lot of fans are in love with a PR persona, and that it seems to be very difficult for a lot of fans to realize and accept that a PR persona is a creation which could be totally different from MJ's real personality. We have pointed out that a lot of fans are hindered by an emotional barrier, which makes them unable of thinking outside the box.
We have pointed out that because of that emotional barrier and the love for the PR persona, fans say "Michael would never do that". Fact is that no one knows what Mike would or wouldn't do, but by sticking to the PR persona and saying "he would never do that" people are dismissing a lot of issues in this hoax that could be very realistic.
Thank you so much. If there is one thing I don't like, its definitely the phrase "Michael would never do that".
And as for what you said Souza, thank you for speaking the words so many people were thinking. Michael was/is human! This is a hoax site. Let's, you know... talk about the hoax! Not gold pants.
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Sorry for any grief I may have caused you Souza. Taking my rose coloured glasses off now and replacing them with a magnifying glass. And for the record, I have never been a gold pants drooler. For me it's all about the injustice. I am wired with a strong need to see wrongs put right. My Dad used to call me his rebel without a cause in my younger years. I have now found a worthy one.
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This is an absolutely necessary discussion and therefore I would like to thank Souza for opening it.
It seems there are waves of evolution reaching out to the board like tides.
We have seen this happen several times - each time the board acquired more members, there were more potential issues added until they got resolved.
I would not like to give up this time - we did not give up before, either. The more fans or interested people are being attracted to the board, the more they bring with themselves the "used-to" culture of fan-boards, media-like PR-information that was hammered into their minds and perception and certain points of view that were strategically built up.
We had to let all that go, too, and it was not easy and did hurt and sometimes was more than we thought we could handle.
Let's not forget to lend a hand to those not used to the hoax train to explore and adapt to the "multiple-opinions-shared-not-fought-on-board", "fact-oriented-look-from-all-sides-with-magnifying-glasses-without-ridiculing", "we-respect-and appreciate-each-other-and-our-different-perspectives-to-see-the-world" and "we-try-to-stay-open-minded-about-unknown-aspects-of-life" cultures we have developped over months here.
I believe the "long-time-runners" have developped capabilities that some of the newbies have not discovered yet. This is no judgement, it is just one reason for different interpretations. Some of the newbies may not have the indepth knowledge of the evolution of the hoax. I would like to point out that ALL information is to be found either in the blogs, videos, summaries or archives. However, it takes your time to read through the many facts. It takes your dedication to work on some matters. It is NOT easy.
Nobody has ever said that the hoax is a digital cheeseburger that may be understood in just a few minutes. Getting the messages will take some time of your life. It will pay out though more than you may imagine. It will change your life forever.
Having said all the above, I would like to encourage the newbies to dare take off their habits and glasses, to just take a step back before posting and work on the subject for a minute or hour or two. This is about S.T.U.D.Y. and reading and reflecting and exchanging then.
I would like to open my arms for all - you are each and everybody much wanted here - we undertook quite some adventure to make you find us ;) .
So welcome with a warm heart and best wishes. Come and discover the man you never knew.
You will be soooo surprised of who you missed until now...
A little etiquette will help all of us, a step back from where you used to be, daring NOT looking at gold pants but behind the curtain, wanting to know the man instead of the role, listening, reading, finding yourself speechless, in awe, starting an adventure you never expected - welcome to the rollercoaster of your life.
L.O.V.E.
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Thank you Souza for a wonderful and much needed post.
I have been an admirer of Michaels for most of my life. My love and admiration for him has evolved a lot over the years. When I was a starry eyed teenager, it was Michael Jackson, King of Pop that I loved. But as I have gotten older I have grown to love, respect and admire Michael, the man. He is a true humanitarian with enough love in his heart for the entire world. He has inspired me to not only make myself a better person but to make the world better by treating everyone with love and respect.
We should all think before we post and take into consideration the other persons feelings. Let's be kind to one another. It doesn't mean we can't disagree but we should be respectful and not argumentative. Treat others the way you want to be treated.
Please remember: God is Love, Love is God. When you put God in the center all things are possible.
Many blessings to all
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I agree that some fans are a little insensitive and can only admire the look, the smile and the voice of Michael.
Of course, as a fan of 27 years, I am thrilled and in love with its charm, especially in the era "History", but I think the true fans, can see the human being that Michael is. Proof of this is that many mourn and has a sense of injustice for all that Michael suffered, we know how many he has always proved to be stubborn, conceited and even perhaps a bit vindictive. I particularly love Michael as a man and artist, I know he is not perfect, it has several flaws, but their qualities are very evident: humane, intelligent, talented, sensitive, good father, good son, gentle (mostly ) and why not say handsome, charming, attractive and lovely??
As for autism, I am not very convinced, but it is something to consider ... perhaps the mildest form of the disease? After all, they say that autistic people are true geniuses ... and Michael is a genius!
Unconditionally love you, Michael!! As a human being and as artist. Nobody will ever overcome you!
God be with you.
Asperger's IS the mild form of the disease. lol. My doctors are actually in the process of rediagnoseing me cause they belived me to be Bipolar and ADHD. People with Aspergers can still function in life, still hold jobs, and even drive. And they generally are very intelligent people. My cousin who has the extreme form or autism can not do these things and can barely communicate at all. I hope that clears that up for you. And you know a little about the diffence now. People with Aspergers May appear almost completely normal. Which, we are still lol.
Check out this video about a guy with aspergers. Seems pretty normal, but he has problems socially and has an obssesion that they thought was OCD at first,
[youtube:3jrpg7a4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAfWfsop1e0[/youtube:3jrpg7a4]
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I've read that people with Asperger's syndrome are awkward. Certainly, Michael wasn't. But he does have characteristics. The man we never knew.
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I've read that people with Asperger's syndrome are awkward. Certainly, Michael wasn't. But he does have characteristics. The man we never knew.
People with asperger's are not awkward. They are different and not always understood by others, but they can function very well. Please read up on Asperger's.
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I know somebody with aspergers he is very open clever loving but he has problems Reading situations and dangers he trust people to much he can walk into dangerous situations without seeing the problem
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I myself suffer from Asperger's Syndrome and I think it's a very great possibility that Michael has this disorder. I find as he shares traits of it that it is one of the reasons why I find so MJ so appealing as I see him as being a similar person to me. It's heartening to see you guys talk about Asperger's in such a positive manner, it's so great to see you all share your stories as I can relate. If MJ does in fact have it then it's just another reason why he's so awesome! :)
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The thing's that Michael has said about himself openly like "I don't like to talk" and the apparent extreme shyness that he suffers around people upon first meeting them is a trait of Aspies but his creativity and vivid imagination contradict this theory, even high-functioning Aspies like my myself struggle highly when trying to explore and express the creative and imaginary aspects of the human mind, the same goes for love and relationships in the fact that we find it hard to express our feeling's verbally and it lead's to a lot of frustration on both sides of the divide, especially if they don't understand Apergers or are unwilling to accept you for the person you really are, when I told my last girlfriend that I had it she didn't want to know, it hurt a lot that she couldn't accept me for me and that's the issue here.. accepting MJ for the person he really is and not for the person you want him to be, though I personally don't believe that he has Aspergers, I do believe that he could suffer from other thing's that limit his social skills for one reason or another that can cause a lot of emotional pain and suffering because people that have these kind of disorders are often pushed to the fringes of social groups and made to feel like and be outsiders, freaks and prime targerts for both emotional and physical bullying, especially in the teen years.
Campassion, sensivity, kindness and having an open mind isn't too much to ask but if you find that it is, I suggest an investigative forum that is inevitably going to research and put the spotlight on his most personal issues and put your media fed image of him under uncomfortable scrutiny isn't the best place for you to be, sign up to fan-based forum.
Thanks for bringing this up, Souza, it's about time that his issue was put in the spotlight.
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I know somebody with aspergers he is very open clever loving but he has problems Reading situations and dangers he trust people to much he can walk into dangerous situations without seeing the problem
Now doesn't that sound familiar?
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Spot on I would say
The person I know is well loved but he loves everybody which is dangerous he can not read people
It does remind me of somebody
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Amen sister...
You are not alone (cheesy MJ reference :lol: ). Many of us have also laughed and cried during this journey. Sometimes it has happened at the same time. If you need to, take a break and step back from it all.
The rollercoaster may need to be traded in for a much calmer ride such as the ferris wheel or merry go round. ;)
[center:3fepk0j4]I believe what people failed to realise was that Michael was a human being.
[/center:3fepk0j4]
[hr:3fepk0j4]hr[/hr:3fepk0j4]
I still think many fail to realise that, even his fans. I am posting this because there is a lot I need to get off my chest.
This hoax has been an emotional rollercoaster for me. I have laughed, I have been confused (and still are most of the time), I have had dozens of brain reboots, I have cried my eyes out, I have finally met the true me, I have learned what I expect from myself and this short visit on earth and I believe I am a close witness to "What Will Go Down In History As The Greatest Demonstration For Freedom...". That is why this is important to me, because if I would have thought that he only hoaxed his death because he wanted to outdo Thriller, I would have walked away months ago, although I do like this aspect of the story as well. But lately what I feel most is sadness and even disgust.
This hoax is turning into something that is the opposite of its original purpose. The hoax community is full of hate, back stabbing, (death)threats and blogs and forums are lately platforms to share personal information of other members, just because they think it's 'important' for the hoax. Why would that be important and don't they see the danger in that? The very person who HATED all these things is actually the one who attracted it and I am sure that hurts him more than some people can imagine.
Besides that I see too many threads about him that have subjects like:
"Oh my God, he's so hot"
"MJ sexy with glasses"
"MJ sexy with tongue"
And other titles like that. Please let me remind you that the "Videos of Michael" subforum is for videos unrelated to the hoax. Videos of tours or performances or things like that, but absolutely not to dissect the man or to share your fantasies. Same goes for the "Pictures of Michael" subforum. There is no subforum "Fanfiction" so please refrain from posting it in the future. This is an investigation site and not a fan forum. Do you think he would enjoy reading that? Is that all he is about? The outside?
One of the This Is It posters said: "Discover the man you never knew". By reading fanfiction and threads like mentioned above, you won't discover that man. You will stick with your fantasies and will keep seeing everything through your pink glasses. If that's your cup of tea then that is fine, but not on this forum.
So here I return to the quote at the beginning of this post: 'I believe what people failed to realise was that Michael was a human being.'
People did and still are. He's made of flesh and blood, like all of us. Besides all the angelic features, I am certain he has his other side too. We are all not our best 24/7. I am sure he can be cranky, angry, unreasonable and a pain in the butt as well. If he needs to go, he needs to go and will have to wipe his own ass. I know most of you don't like that thought, but that is one thing I can certainly say is the truth.
But most of all, he can hurt. Physically as in fans tearing him apart just to get a piece of him and mentally by all the shit that has been reported and all the false accusations against him.
Then the ridicule of some theories and thoughts. Please refrain from commenting that something is ridiculous before you have actually read up on it. I remember some of us discussed that Michael could have Asperger's Syndrome. Some reactions and I paraphrase: "Ridiculous, Michael is not an autist". That can hurt! First of all, I am certain that there might be people on here that have some sort of autism or Asperger's, who can confirm that. Read up on autism and Asperger's and then comment. If you still don't agree that is fine, but at least you can post your arguments and keep up a healthy discussion. I am familiar with Asperger's and I really think it's a possibilty he has AS. He is human, he can have disorders (although I don't really think the word disorder really fits AS) because he is human. It's not something he has control over. And I can imagine that IF he has AS, comments like the above are not really nice to read.
On a sidenote: Here is a video about Carly Fleischmann, who has severe autism (NOT Asperger's). Just this video alone will let you take a peek behind the screen about autism. It's inspirational and shows how people can be misjudged because of their outside:
[youtube:3fepk0j4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7U1UjZzJLE[/youtube:3fepk0j4]
Take off your pink glasses and try to think outside the box sometimes. Don't try to think or answer for him, because none of us can. Instead, try to imagine what you would do, or think. Mostly that is closer to the truth than when you try to form an opinion based on a person you have never met and idolize that much. He is a son, a brother, a father and a friend. At the end of the day, he needs to change his underwear. His dirty laundry is as dirty as ours and when he bumps his little toe I am sure he won't say "Hee Hee". He bruises when you pinch him hard enough and when you cut him he bleeds...
I am not at all being disrespectful and I am not judging anyone in particular. I know you all love him and I know you all want the best for him. That would be leaving him in one piece, instead of aspire to get a piece. I am only trying to make you see that he might be Michael Jackson, he might be tough, but in the end we're all the same and this hoax should be about L.O.V.E. and not H.A.T.E. I hope we can turn that tide before it's too late. The world is fucked up enough already and we have more important things to be passionate about. Save your energy for later.
Here is something to think about:
'The prince asks the narrator to draw a sheep. Not knowing how to draw a sheep, the narrator shows the prince a picture that he had previously drawn: a boa with an elephant in its stomach (a drawing which previous viewers mistook for a hat). "No! No!" exclaims the prince. "I don't want a boa constrictor from the inside or outside. I want a sheep!" He tries a few sheep drawings, which the prince rejects. Finally he draws a box, which he explains has the sheep inside. The prince, who can see the sheep inside the box just as well as he can see the elephant in the boa, says "That's perfect.".'
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It is so enlightening to see this topic in discussion. I thought it would be the opening of a Pandora's box. I've often thought that Michael exhibited the symptoms of autistic savant which is not a bad thing. It is highly misunderstood. But this also sounds very plausible. and I totally agree. One of the first real clues for me was when he was married to Lisa and she refused to have children. His admission that he walked around with a baby doll in his arms and cried from wanting a child so badly with her kind of brought it home. Also because he was so emotionally abused as a child that he was content at sharing his home with the life sized figurines and openly admitted he had them there because he was lonely and because he genuinely loved such simple things. He even took some to his hotel to keep him company. Only a person who was genuinely child like in a very real way, could attach so emotionally to inanimate things. When he was doing the Virgin Store cd signing you could see that he had to be moving and thumping, never still, and his eyes would light up at anything sparkly like a little boy. The water guns. Neverland, a child's paradise filled with things to do and see 24-7. He was a big kid at heart. Literally. BUT BOY WHEN HE WAS ON STAGE. :shock: Night and day. Quincey Jones even talked about how he couldn't stand still, had to be moving all the time. God how could anyone not just love him? That is the main reason that my love for Michael was not in a sexual way. I wanted to soothe the beast in him, that energy that wouldn't let him rest, that mind that was constantly churning out thoughts, ideas, through simply massaging the soles of his feet and his hands and just watching him relax enough to finally, naturally fall asleep. That was my dream. Still is to be honest. A lot of things points to one or both of these diagnoses. Thanks for having the courage to bring it up and for all the mature conversations surrounding it. This is great.
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Amen sister...
You are not alone (cheesy MJ reference :lol: ). Many of us have also laughed and cried during this journey. Sometimes it has happened at the same time. If you need to, take a break and step back from it all.
The rollercoaster may need to be traded in for a much calmer ride such as the ferris wheel or merry go round. ;)
Oh no, I'm 'All Good'! :lol:
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The thing's that Michael has said about himself openly like "I don't like to talk" and the apparent extreme shyness that he suffers around people upon first meeting them is a trait of Aspies but his creativity and vivid imagination contradict this theory, even high-functioning Aspies like my myself struggle highly when trying to explore and express the creative and imaginary aspects of the human mind, the same goes for love and relationships in the fact that we find it hard to express our feeling's verbally and it lead's to a lot of frustration on both sides of the divide, especially if they don't understand Apergers or are unwilling to accept you for the person you really are, when I told my last girlfriend that I had it she didn't want to know, it hurt a lot that she couldn't accept me for me and that's the issue here.. accepting MJ for the person he really is and not for the person you want him to be, though I personally don't believe that he has Aspergers, I do believe that he could suffer from other thing's that limit his social skills for one reason or another that can cause a lot of emotional pain and suffering because people that have these kind of disorders are often pushed to the fringes of social groups and made to feel like and be outsiders, freaks and prime targerts for both emotional and physical bullying, especially in the teen years.
Campassion, sensivity, kindness and having an open mind isn't too much to ask but if you find that it is, I suggest an investigative forum that is inevitably going to research and put the spotlight on his most personal issues and put your media fed image of him under uncomfortable scrutiny isn't the best place for you to be, sign up to fan-based forum.
Thanks for bringing this up, Souza, it's about time that his issue was put in the spotlight.
I don't know if I agree with your statement, I'm very creative and so is my cousin. I've seen others with autism and aspergers that are creative at well. No matter what, some of our symptoms differ on the whole spectrum there. In fact alot of people with this have high IQ's.
From WebMD - "Some traits that are typical of Asperger's syndrome, such as attention to detail and focused interests, can increase chances of university and career success. Many people with Asperger's seem to be fascinated with technology, and a common career choice is engineering. But scientific careers are by no means the only areas where people with Asperger's excel. Indeed, many respected historical figures have had symptoms of Asperger's, including Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Albert Einstein, Marie Curie, and Thomas Jefferson."
http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/tc/as ... e-symptoms (http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/tc/aspergers-syndrome-symptoms)
http://www.aspergers.com/ (http://www.aspergers.com/)
http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/aspe ... perger.htm (http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/asperger/detail_asperger.htm)
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[center:658dyiq1]I believe what people failed to realise was that Michael was a human being.
[/center:658dyiq1]
[hr:658dyiq1]hr[/hr:658dyiq1]
I still think many fail to realise that, even his fans. I am posting this because there is a lot I need to get off my chest.
This hoax has been an emotional rollercoaster for me. I have laughed, I have been confused (and still are most of the time), I have had dozens of brain reboots, I have cried my eyes out, I have finally met the true me, I have learned what I expect from myself and this short visit on earth and I believe I am a close witness to "What Will Go Down In History As The Greatest Demonstration For Freedom...". That is why this is important to me, because if I would have thought that he only hoaxed his death because he wanted to outdo Thriller, I would have walked away months ago, although I do like this aspect of the story as well. But lately what I feel most is sadness and even disgust.
This hoax is turning into something that is the opposite of its original purpose. The hoax community is full of hate, back stabbing, (death)threats and blogs and forums are lately platforms to share personal information of other members, just because they think it's 'important' for the hoax. Why would that be important and don't they see the danger in that? The very person who HATED all these things is actually the one who attracted it and I am sure that hurts him more than some people can imagine.
Besides that I see too many threads about him that have subjects like:
"Oh my God, he's so hot"
"MJ sexy with glasses"
"MJ sexy with tongue"
And other titles like that. Please let me remind you that the "Videos of Michael" subforum is for videos unrelated to the hoax. Videos of tours or performances or things like that, but absolutely not to dissect the man or to share your fantasies. Same goes for the "Pictures of Michael" subforum. There is no subforum "Fanfiction" so please refrain from posting it in the future. This is an investigation site and not a fan forum. Do you think he would enjoy reading that? Is that all he is about? The outside?
One of the This Is It posters said: "Discover the man you never knew". By reading fanfiction and threads like mentioned above, you won't discover that man. You will stick with your fantasies and will keep seeing everything through your pink glasses. If that's your cup of tea then that is fine, but not on this forum.
So here I return to the quote at the beginning of this post: 'I believe what people failed to realise was that Michael was a human being.'
People did and still are. He's made of flesh and blood, like all of us. Besides all the angelic features, I am certain he has his other side too. We are all not our best 24/7. I am sure he can be cranky, angry, unreasonable and a pain in the butt as well. If he needs to go, he needs to go and will have to wipe his own ass. I know most of you don't like that thought, but that is one thing I can certainly say is the truth.
But most of all, he can hurt. Physically as in fans tearing him apart just to get a piece of him and mentally by all the shit that has been reported and all the false accusations against him.
Then the ridicule of some theories and thoughts. Please refrain from commenting that something is ridiculous before you have actually read up on it. I remember some of us discussed that Michael could have Asperger's Syndrome. Some reactions and I paraphrase: "Ridiculous, Michael is not an autist". That can hurt! First of all, I am certain that there might be people on here that have some sort of autism or Asperger's, who can confirm that. Read up on autism and Asperger's and then comment. If you still don't agree that is fine, but at least you can post your arguments and keep up a healthy discussion. I am familiar with Asperger's and I really think it's a possibilty he has AS. He is human, he can have disorders (although I don't really think the word disorder really fits AS) because he is human. It's not something he has control over. And I can imagine that IF he has AS, comments like the above are not really nice to read.
On a sidenote: Here is a video about Carly Fleischmann, who has severe autism (NOT Asperger's). Just this video alone will let you take a peek behind the screen about autism. It's inspirational and shows how people can be misjudged because of their outside:
[youtube:658dyiq1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7U1UjZzJLE[/youtube:658dyiq1]
Take off your pink glasses and try to think outside the box sometimes. Don't try to think or answer for him, because none of us can. Instead, try to imagine what you would do, or think. Mostly that is closer to the truth than when you try to form an opinion based on a person you have never met and idolize that much. He is a son, a brother, a father and a friend. At the end of the day, he needs to change his underwear. His dirty laundry is as dirty as ours and when he bumps his little toe I am sure he won't say "Hee Hee". He bruises when you pinch him hard enough and when you cut him he bleeds...
I am not at all being disrespectful and I am not judging anyone in particular. I know you all love him and I know you all want the best for him. That would be leaving him in one piece, instead of aspire to get a piece. I am only trying to make you see that he might be Michael Jackson, he might be tough, but in the end we're all the same and this hoax should be about L.O.V.E. and not H.A.T.E. I hope we can turn that tide before it's too late. The world is fucked up enough already and we have more important things to be passionate about. Save your energy for later.
Here is something to think about:
'The prince asks the narrator to draw a sheep. Not knowing how to draw a sheep, the narrator shows the prince a picture that he had previously drawn: a boa with an elephant in its stomach (a drawing which previous viewers mistook for a hat). "No! No!" exclaims the prince. "I don't want a boa constrictor from the inside or outside. I want a sheep!" He tries a few sheep drawings, which the prince rejects. Finally he draws a box, which he explains has the sheep inside. The prince, who can see the sheep inside the box just as well as he can see the elephant in the boa, says "That's perfect.".'
Souza, great, well-written post. Maybe it's because I haven't been on much lately, but I think H.A.T.E is a strong word for the members on this particular board- I at least never see much of anything in the way of hatefulness.. Yeah, a lot of arguments like you said, though.
I think you also have to consider what someone else here said, about all of the picture-and-video-ogling threads, we have a lot of new people here that come from fan forums, and aren't really used to it here yet. I would hate to assume- just because they look at these and write some comments doesn't necessarily mean that they aren't researching or can't see "the man they never knew"..though they should consider that he does read the board. We all know he is not just about his looks, of course, it would be a great insult to say that about him, BUT- I remember from when I first joined that after extensive reading of more intense topics for the hoax, I was really just looking for something positive to look at or remember to keep me from sinking into the bogs- everyone knows that he isn't perfect, Souza, of course, but you don't really want the boards to have been clogged up with threads like "How much of an annoyance do you think MJ is?" or "What if MJ bugged you by blank blank?" these months, do you? Haha..! Speaking of fans, I can feel where you're coming from about the fact that they did in some ways make his life harder- a lot of times I wonder how his life would have been if those certain, I suppose obsessed ones had never chased him in giant packs and yanked at him those times.. But at least their existence means that he always has a giant support system, no matter how many people go up against him, for whatever reason.
My computer can only load one thing at once, and as someone else needs to use YouTube right now, I can't see the video of Carly, so could someone please just give me an idea of what it's about? Now, here's where I'm getting emotional.. the idea of MJ having Asperger's isn't very horrible at all, but there are always some who will feel differently. I know that for me, I have learned so much more about myself and the world, but before I came here I've always known that MJ's genius is deeper than a lot realize, that he's capable of pulling off some wild things that yeah, a few peeps might say "he would never do". (though I honestly don't see that statement here very much at all) But.. it's hard to read about him suffering from anything else than what everyone already knows he has, it's like a "What now?!" feeling.. and I think that's why so many post in the way that they do- instant rejection posts that can come off as harsh or insulting. I'm not saying he has anything other than possibly Asperger's, but it's depressing, and potentially hurtful to us, to our hearts, to think that he's possibly suffered anything more, anything new (to us), besides what we all know he already has.. or maybe I'm just too much mushy-gushy..
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Thank you for this post Souza.......Finally someone has said it. Lets get on with the show.....investigating a hoaxed death. xoxo
I agree as well....wonderful post! Love & Hugs :)
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I know somebody with aspergers he is very open clever loving but he has problems Reading situations and dangers he trust people to much he can walk into dangerous situations without seeing the problem
This does sound like MJ. Especially walking into dangerous situations without seeing the problem, like with the children sleeping over, he knew he wasn't doing anything sexual, so he didn't see the problem. But the world didn't think the same, of course. :roll:
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I'm just amazed how some people constantly remind fans we don't know MJ (and I know we don't,) but at the same time be so convinced he suffered from a mental disorder. For all we know, Michael Jackson COULD have suffered from Asperger's Syndrome, Autism, Multiple Personality Disorder or even Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder if you will, but even a psychiatrist cannot diagnose a person without meeting them. I'm just wondering, how can a person say to one group of people that they don't know Michael Jackson's personality yet with another group decide upon which illnesses he suffered from? It's called a double-standard.
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I'm just amazed how some people constantly remind fans we don't know MJ (and I know we don't,) but at the same time be so convinced he suffered from a mental disorder. For all we know, Michael Jackson COULD have suffered from Asperger's Syndrome, Autism, Multiple Personality Disorder or even Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder if you will, but even a psychiatrist cannot diagnose a person without meeting them. I'm just wondering, how can a person say to one group of people that they don't know Michael Jackson's personality yet with another group decide upon which illnesses he suffered from? It's called a double-standard.
We're not saying we know for sure he does. but saying it's a possibility for why people might not understand him and he exibits some symptoms. I think Souza also trying to say that we should be able to discuss things like this without being looked down on or argued with. And I'm posting infor on AS because some people think people with AS can't function or are not smart and creative and that actually saddens me, Because I am extremely Intelligent.
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I'm just amazed how some people constantly remind fans we don't know MJ (and I know we don't,) but at the same time be so convinced he suffered from a mental disorder. For all we know, Michael Jackson COULD have suffered from Asperger's Syndrome, Autism, Multiple Personality Disorder or even Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder if you will, but even a psychiatrist cannot diagnose a person without meeting them. I'm just wondering, how can a person say to one group of people that they don't know Michael Jackson's personality yet with another group decide upon which illnesses he suffered from? It's called a double-standard.
Thank you for saying this Sangre. I'm disappointed that this thread has turned into the very same speculation and disection that Souza appeared to be frustrated with. If we are to see MJ as a human being, like each of us, then we should ask ourselves this: would we want strangers, in an open forum, discussing and giving a diagnosis on every 'strange' facet of our character and way of being in the world (and believe me, we all have strangenesses of one sort or another). I'm sorry, but I see this as more harmful and hurtful than gold pants talk. And equally as irrelevant to a hoax investigation.
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I'm just amazed how some people constantly remind fans we don't know MJ (and I know we don't,) but at the same time be so convinced he suffered from a mental disorder. For all we know, Michael Jackson COULD have suffered from Asperger's Syndrome, Autism, Multiple Personality Disorder or even Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder if you will, but even a psychiatrist cannot diagnose a person without meeting them. I'm just wondering, how can a person say to one group of people that they don't know Michael Jackson's personality yet with another group decide upon which illnesses he suffered from? It's called a double-standard.
Thank you for saying this Sangre. I'm disappointed that this thread has turned into the very same speculation and disection that Souza appeared to be frustrated with. If we are to see MJ as a human being, like each of us, then we should ask ourselves this: would we want strangers, in an open forum, discussing and giving a diagnosis on every 'strange' facet of our character and way of being in the world (and believe me, we all have strangenesses of one sort or another). I'm sorry, but I see this as more harmful and hurtful than gold pants talk. And equally as irrelevant to a hoax investigation.
Then you both REALLY didn't get the point.
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I'm just amazed how some people constantly remind fans we don't know MJ (and I know we don't,) but at the same time be so convinced he suffered from a mental disorder. For all we know, Michael Jackson COULD have suffered from Asperger's Syndrome, Autism, Multiple Personality Disorder or even Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder if you will, but even a psychiatrist cannot diagnose a person without meeting them. I'm just wondering, how can a person say to one group of people that they don't know Michael Jackson's personality yet with another group decide upon which illnesses he suffered from? It's called a double-standard.
Thank you for saying this Sangre. I'm disappointed that this thread has turned into the very same speculation and disection that Souza appeared to be frustrated with. If we are to see MJ as a human being, like each of us, then we should ask ourselves this: would we want strangers, in an open forum, discussing and giving a diagnosis on every 'strange' facet of our character and way of being in the world (and believe me, we all have strangenesses of one sort or another). I'm sorry, but I see this as more harmful and hurtful than gold pants talk. And equally as irrelevant to a hoax investigation.
I Just see a few people not getting the point and twisting things around. In my opinion. If you have a problem then stay out of the thread, because it was started by the Mod in the first place who brought it up. I don't understand people sometimes *Sigh* :(
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I don't know if I agree with your statement, I'm very creative and so is my cousin. I've seen others with autism and aspergers that are creative at well. No matter what, some of our symptoms differ on the whole spectrum there. In fact alot of people with this have high IQ's.
From WebMD - "Some traits that are typical of Asperger's syndrome, such as attention to detail and focused interests, can increase chances of university and career success. Many people with Asperger's seem to be fascinated with technology, and a common career choice is engineering. But scientific careers are by no means the only areas where people with Asperger's excel. Indeed, many respected historical figures have had symptoms of Asperger's, including Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Albert Einstein, Marie Curie, and Thomas Jefferson."
http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/tc/as ... e-symptoms (http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/tc/aspergers-syndrome-symptoms)
http://www.aspergers.com/ (http://www.aspergers.com/)
http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/aspe ... perger.htm (http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/asperger/detail_asperger.htm)[/quote]
Intellectually gifted people with Aspergers find these activities a lot easier than Aspies who would be considered to be in the normal range (or less) on the IQ spectrum, I'd say I'm in the normal range for IQ's so I struggle with those aspects.
Anyway, thanks for links, I'll check them out (:
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I'm just amazed how some people constantly remind fans we don't know MJ (and I know we don't,) but at the same time be so convinced he suffered from a mental disorder. For all we know, Michael Jackson COULD have suffered from Asperger's Syndrome, Autism, Multiple Personality Disorder or even Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder if you will, but even a psychiatrist cannot diagnose a person without meeting them. I'm just wondering, how can a person say to one group of people that they don't know Michael Jackson's personality yet with another group decide upon which illnesses he suffered from? It's called a double-standard.
Thank you for saying this Sangre. I'm disappointed that this thread has turned into the very same speculation and disection that Souza appeared to be frustrated with. If we are to see MJ as a human being, like each of us, then we should ask ourselves this: would we want strangers, in an open forum, discussing and giving a diagnosis on every 'strange' facet of our character and way of being in the world (and believe me, we all have strangenesses of one sort or another). I'm sorry, but I see this as more harmful and hurtful than gold pants talk. And equally as irrelevant to a hoax investigation.
I Just see a few people not getting the point and twisting things around. In my opinion. If you have a problem then stay out of the thread, because it was started by the Mod in the first place who brought it up. I don't understand people sometimes *Sigh* :(
If I've missed the point wouldn't it be more helpful to try and help me understand, than to tell me to keep out of the thread? I also don't understand people sometimes.
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yes michael is only human. he said so himself.just like the rest of us.with human emotions , faults, worries , pains and fears. with personality traits that are his and his alone as well as those that are just like everyone else's. personality traits. now there is a term you don't hear much about anymore. now we tend to call them symtoms instead.
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Very good post, Souza. I agree, that Michael is only human and makes mistakes like all of us. 8-) :) Also, about Aspergers Syndrome, it's a possibility I thought of when I ran across the topic online, some months ago.
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I'm just amazed how some people constantly remind fans we don't know MJ (and I know we don't,) but at the same time be so convinced he suffered from a mental disorder. For all we know, Michael Jackson COULD have suffered from Asperger's Syndrome, Autism, Multiple Personality Disorder or even Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder if you will, but even a psychiatrist cannot diagnose a person without meeting them. I'm just wondering, how can a person say to one group of people that they don't know Michael Jackson's personality yet with another group decide upon which illnesses he suffered from? It's called a double-standard.
Thank you for saying this Sangre. I'm disappointed that this thread has turned into the very same speculation and disection that Souza appeared to be frustrated with. If we are to see MJ as a human being, like each of us, then we should ask ourselves this: would we want strangers, in an open forum, discussing and giving a diagnosis on every 'strange' facet of our character and way of being in the world (and believe me, we all have strangenesses of one sort or another). I'm sorry, but I see this as more harmful and hurtful than gold pants talk. And equally as irrelevant to a hoax investigation.
Then you both REALLY didn't get the point.
I think you're misread what I was saying. That would explain why you get so defensive.
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I'm just amazed how some people constantly remind fans we don't know MJ (and I know we don't,) but at the same time be so convinced he suffered from a mental disorder. For all we know, Michael Jackson COULD have suffered from Asperger's Syndrome, Autism, Multiple Personality Disorder or even Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder if you will, but even a psychiatrist cannot diagnose a person without meeting them. I'm just wondering, how can a person say to one group of people that they don't know Michael Jackson's personality yet with another group decide upon which illnesses he suffered from? It's called a double-standard.
Thank you for saying this Sangre. I'm disappointed that this thread has turned into the very same speculation and disection that Souza appeared to be frustrated with. If we are to see MJ as a human being, like each of us, then we should ask ourselves this: would we want strangers, in an open forum, discussing and giving a diagnosis on every 'strange' facet of our character and way of being in the world (and believe me, we all have strangenesses of one sort or another). I'm sorry, but I see this as more harmful and hurtful than gold pants talk. And equally as irrelevant to a hoax investigation.
Then you both REALLY didn't get the point.
I think you're misread what I was saying. That would explain why you get so defensive.
I am very capable of understanding your post. With MY post I meant that I don't want this to become a fan forum and I want some respect for Mike. Certain threads absolutely miss that. This is an investigation site and we are here to find out what made him do this. Trying to understand him is part of that, and therefore subjects like AS should be discussable. No one is saying he most definately has AS, we are only discussing the possibility. That is not disrespectful at all. If you say that you are saying that people with AS are disfunctional or stupid, which they are most definitely not. Actually they are often highly intelligent. If you think it's more respectful to talk about how hot he is and stuff that I won't mention here, that is fine by me, yet not on this forum. I understood your post very well, but you didn't understand mine at all.
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I already gave my point of view in another thread some weeks ago speculating about Michael´s "mental diagnoses".
The topic "Michael is human" has again turned in to "Michael is mentally ill", in resume.
We do not know about Michael´s mental diagnosis and those who have the skills and experience in diagnosing clients beyond coaching or psychotherapy don´t seem to see hints of Michael´s "possible A.S" in what has been shown to us in his home videos.
We do not know who Michael really is behind the spot lights, so, once again, in my honest opinion, to firmly open the possibility of MJ suffering some form of autism without knowing nothing about him face to face, his fears or real approach to life is just speculation.
On another note, the non tretated autistic brain perceives reality in a higly distorted form. A simple noise can take the sound of an explosion i.e. Communication and expression in every sense it´s a very hard task.
I do not see any hints of that disorder within Michael´s behaviour as far as has been shown to us.
Souza, this is an investigation forum, true, but one cannot dismiss that Michael Jackson was an icon.
Threads are open regarding issues that nobody cares because they don´t seem to be related to Michael and we don´t read them, other people want to share wih readers of this specific forum their passion for MJ, even if it sounds rude to say "I love those Gold pants" or wathever.
I am of the opinion that every single member have something to bring to the investigation, even if the talk is just about Michael´s "sexy smile" because we don´t know if by focusing in the "sexy smile" we can find out a faker, a double or an impersonator as an example.
We have been dissecting Michael to eternity; ears, legs, nose, smile.....all of that by watching videos ;)
On the other hand, I also agree that rude vocabulary could be hold back a bit since I am not interested in knowing people´s sexual fantasies with Michael ;)
To try to make the forum exclusively about investigating Michael´s death is not going to be possible.
Most of the people interested in Michael are fans who liked his looks as well as his music, who liked the artist and carry that fan side with them in all the forums they join.
Let me ask you, Souza. How are you going to solve this dilema?
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I don't have to solve anything. As I have stated, I don't want threads like "Oh he's so hot" and stuff like that. I am aware of the fact that there are fans here, but like I stated, we have a general talk and "Videos/Pictures of Michael" and "Messages to Michael". That doesn't mean that those forums are there to share sexual fantasies and I dislike the threads that are focussing on his body features. If you respect him as an artist, then talk about his work, his dance moves, his albums, his tours or whatever. In some threads he si totaslly seen as an object of insane lust if I can phrase it like that, and I don't want that, period. There are millions of forums (fan forums) where people can share all their fantasies and fanfiction, but not here. Clear and simple. I am not talking about the normal fan threads that discuss tours and stuff like that, I am talking about the ridiculous ones. There are way too many of them lately and that is not what we stand for.
We have stated many times we wanted this to be an investigation site and not a fan forum (see home page) and I understand if people want some light threads sometimes. That is fine by me, most certainly because other people might find something in it that is helpful for the investigation. But people need to stop the "OMG he's so hot" threads, it's annoying and I think he knows this by now...
As for Asperger's and 'mentally ill'. I think that's kinda harsh. As you can see there are people on here with Asperger's, and mentally ill does not sound very nice. I really advise you to read up on AS before making statements like this. This thread is not meant to be about the possibility that Mike is an Aspie, I gave that as an example because people were ridiculing the theory and BECAUSE we don't know if he has AS or not, and because there are others here on the forum with AS, I didn't liked the comments on it.
I never said I am sure he is an Aspie, I said it was a possibility and I said I think we should be able to discuss that without being trashed by people who just say 'he is not a retard'. Comments like that are disrespectful and not helpful and will be removed. It's very possible you have reasons to disagree on a theory, that is why they are THEORIES, but in that case people need to come up with more than that.
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I really advise you to read up on AS before making statements like this
Oh, Advice...sounds pretty rude to me the way you are giving me a tip this time, Souza.
I have read about it ;) and not only about A.S and pls, don´t get defensive for the words "mentally ill" , it wasn´t meant to be harsh.
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I know somebody with aspergers he is very open clever loving but he has problems Reading situations and dangers he trust people to much he can walk into dangerous situations without seeing the problem
This does sound like MJ. Especially walking into dangerous situations without seeing the problem, like with the children sleeping over, he knew he wasn't doing anything sexual, so he didn't see the problem. But the world didn't think the same, of course. :roll:
I know that is what i mean he did it with all good intentions we know that but as we all grow up up in this hard world we know that we can not do that without some person accusing you of all sorts and you would not be able to protect yourself without a witness standing there and i have to say when I watched the basit programme and Michael said that about sleeping with children in his innocent way i though om my god they are going to crucify you for that and they did he did not see the danger he was walking into.
Of course I cant say that he has aspergers but it could explain why he did not see danger at that time.
I have to say i agree souza with you this site is here to find the truth if that is what we are supposed to do we know Michael is handsome that goes without saying but you can go to the fan clubs to talk about that here is for the truth I feel
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At the end of the day we know he is handsome we know he he makes great music well the list is endless the most important thing is
we dont know what happened to him I think that is why we are all here
best wishes
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i think in the situation with bashir michael was trying to stick up for what he thought was doing unto others as you would have them do unto you. i think during the course of what happened he did realize that he was screwed (that's why he added the part about " i slept on the floor") .but we all know by then it was too late. i think he just couldn't fathom that this kind of thing could possibly happen to him a second time. jmo
you have to remember this guy spent a lifetime nearly in circumstances that we can't even begin to imagine.
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I JOINED THIS WEBSITE INDEED BECAUSE I STILL BELIEVE THAT MICHAEL JACKSON IS STILL ALIVE, NO QUESTION AT ALL! I WILL ADMIT THAT SOME THREADS MAKES MIKE LOOK LIKE A SEXY SYMBOL. THIS SITE IS FOR INVESTIGATING AND GETTING EVIDENCE. NOW, MIKE KNOWS THAT HIS FANS LOVE HIS MUSIC, HIS HUMANITARIAN AND ETC. HE ALSO KNOWS THAT HE IS INDEED SEXY AND TRULY HANDSOME AS CAN BE. HE KNOWS THAT, HE'S A HUMAN BEING AND A MAN. I DO WANT TO CONTINUE TO GO WITH EVIDENCE AND INVESTIGATIONS OF MICHAEL STILL BEING ALIVE. I UNDERSTAND HOW YOU FEEL SOUZA AND I AGREE WITH YOU. I'VE BEEN A FAN SINCE THE JACKSON FIVE CARTOONS AND THAT''S A LONG TIME AGO, LOL! THE WEBSITE SHOULD JUST STAY WITH ITS NAME. PEACE!!!
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In this forum there are lots of interesting topics, and these themes are those that have fewer entries.
The topics on the message of Michael and good research deSerenitys_Dream are the least read, however there is a section with photos of Michael (I forget the name) where many people refer to their genitals, and I think that is the more entries people have. We will focus more on his message and deception in these matters has the final are not contributing anything.
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My opinion: I think it is right by Forum's Admin draw and remember the "line" of this Forum that
distinguished from other forums because it is a forum for general investigation on the alleged death of Michael Jackson.
Some interventions are a response to other users, and is normal in every forum, provided that compliance and education are always present.
It 'true that MJ's fans (believers and non believers in the hoax death) to go wild personal comments sometimes too driven and before writing would do well to reflect...
But in general this Forum has a varied landscape very great that welcomes many people with different backgrounds, united by the desire to find truth on the fate of Michael Jackson.
All things enriche, including criticism and dissent.
The condition is that there is no bad faith and desire to confuse, manipulate negative for other purposes.
That is why the Admin is very important,to avoid excesses and to correct eventually wrong route for the purpose of the Forum. :)