Mafia

[Raven]

It goes even deeper. The article about Malnik I posted previously also describes how MJ suspected Malnik/Mottola were behind the criminal child molestation charges, and that MJ believed Malnik to represent the mafia. Brett Ratner is mentioned as Malnik's protege.

Ok, now I'm really lost.

If this is the case - Malnik linked with the mafia & possibly behind the molestation charges - then how would we be seeing video of Paris hanging out with them at their home if Michael is alive?   :?

When the situation is THAT dangerous, you don't let your kids go play with the mafia kids next door just cuz they used to be friends...

If Michael is alive, he can't really be that involved with the children as I doubt he would be ok with the kids being with them.

I'm interested to hear what everyone else thinks?

Just had a thought:
If MJ had to go into hiding because of these people, do you think it's possible that the video of Paris with the Malniks was "leaked" to let Michael know that they have access to the kids and so he shouldn't do anything "stupid?"  

Not if they think he is dead. Can you show which video you are referring to and when it was dated?

[Raven]

Im getting kinda freaked out right now....

How come?

[THE JACKSONOLOGIST]

And which molestation charge?

The child molestation charges of the 2005 trial.

Mottola and MJ also had their history, involving Sony/The Beatles Catalogue/Racist issues.
Racist issues had to do with the rights of black artists:
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And so on...

I remember the racist issues and MJ calling Mottola the Devil. And now that Im thinking about it, I seem to remember a little snippet somewhere on the old MJKIT forum about Tommy being involved somehow to bring MJ down with the trial of 2005.

And Im freaked out a little cus this is probably the most legit reason why he had to fake his death. I always had a thought in my head that this had soemthing to do with the mafia, but I never really thought about it......cus I didnt want to.

[THE JACKSONOLOGIST]

Sorry Virgo...Im posting the vid that Raven is asking about...I hope you dont mind.

EDIT: I dont know when this was posted or when it was filmed. Apparently the original was taken down but someone else posted it cus they saved it.

[youtube:3ttfgtar]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syuJKD6qMx4&feature=player_embedded[/youtube:3ttfgtar]

[Raven]

And which molestation charge?

The child molestation charges of the 2005 trial.

Mottola and MJ also had their history, involving Sony/The Beatles Catalogue/Racist issues.
Racist issues had to do with the rights of black artists:
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And so on...

I remember the racist issues and MJ calling Mottola the Devil. And now that Im thinking about it, I seem to remember a little snippet somewhere on the old MJKIT forum about Tommy being involved somehow to bring MJ down with the trial of 2005.

And Im freaked out a little cus this is probably the most legit reason why he had to fake his death. I always had a thought in my head that this had soemthing to do with the mafia, but I never really thought about it......cus I didnt want to.

Yes...and the thing is most of these things can be proven, facts, Michael speaking himself.
It is hard to imagine what tremendous emotional burden that man had to carry: being idolised, being followed around everywhere, surrounded by leeches/ the mafia, the child molestation charges, the pressure of This Is It and so on.
Murray's role is yet unclear. He could have been the fall guy, it could have been an accident, but he could also have been MJ's ticket to freedom.

[Raven]

Sorry Virgo...Im posting the vid that Raven is asking about...I hope you dont mind.

EDIT: I dont know when this was posted or when it was filmed. Apparently the original was taken down but someone else posted it cus they saved it.

Thanks Judging by her age, it seems recent. But how can you be sure it was with/ at the Malnik's?

Concerning that 'grab'-pic posted above, this is it's context I stumbled upon:
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[THE JACKSONOLOGIST]

Sorry Virgo...Im posting the vid that Raven is asking about...I hope you dont mind.

EDIT: I dont know when this was posted or when it was filmed. Apparently the original was taken down but someone else posted it cus they saved it.

Thanks Judging by her age, it seems recent. But how can you be sure it was with/ at the Malnik's?

Concerning that 'grab'-pic posted above, this is it's context I stumbled upon:
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I dont know how the person who posted the  vid knows it was at the Malniks...here is the thread. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

[Raven]

What a coincidence...mention the Malniks and within hours this video shows up

[mjboogie]

Ha! me again the original poster of this highly engaging thread. But I would just like to say also that u know MJ relayed to more than one person that he feared for his life and his kids life. Why would he say that? Seriously I wonder have the investigators thought about this? I wonder did he relay this to his familY?  I know Dick Gregory said it as well as MJ' former manager (the same one that went on ET and was talking about how MJ trashed a hotel room once), and Judith the spiritual advisor. :cry: Seems as if his cries for help were ignored. and IF MJ has really died I do indeed feel like there is much more to this than some doc and some drugs .  I like many of u here am starting to feel like there had to be some type of THREAT hanging over MJ's head. I dont know about Mottolla wanting revenge now because honestly if he was behind the 2005 trials then he took MJ through the ringer with that!  For some reason there is something that does not sit right with me concerning this Thome guy. Also...Jermaine and Thome know each other well. And also Jermaine is the one that introduced Thome to MJ :evil: which means maybe something was in the deal for Jermaine? SOme may say brother against brother )it does happen money is the root of all evil and possibly will make some turn against family member just as drugs.
 The thing we need to question on this subject IF and i do mean IF MJ was indeed murdered is HOW , HOW, would it tie into all of this. For example we need to examine if there would be any connection with AEG, LAPD, and Mafia. Is Tommy somehow affiliated with LAPD? Tom Sneddon (are LAPD really out to solve this or could they not give a shit! ) IF Murray is the fall guy then how and who would be connected. Murray ties into who?  This is really bugging me as you can tell because June 25th I believe more happened than we have been told. ANd when you listen to Jermaine's latest interview about MJ and concerning the Government? IDK :?

[Gone too soon]

Thank you SO much for starting this thread, mjboogie.
When I found out about MJ:s involvment with the mob half a year ago I tried to bring it up on different forums and in meatspace but was laughed at  And yet my gutfeeling told me from day one that this was it! Especially when a friend - at that time dating one of the Vegas guys - told me that the first thing her friend said when he heard about Michaels´death was: "Oh, they got him, did they?!"

He was absolutely convinced that he had been murdered but didn´t want to speak about it.

So I am glad this is out in the open now, I really enjoy this thread  

[*Mo*]

Very interesting thread.  I do however have a little problem with the following:

Most of our 'knowledge' about Tohme was presented by the main stream media, please keep that in mind.

Gone too soon, I have absolutely no intentions to discredit you, but we have been told a lot by 'people who know people who know the truth'.  I hope you don't mind, but I can't take 'hear say' for truth.  You wrote "The revenue från Invinceable would pay the Mafia for their effort. Now, the album didn´t sell well and MJ suddenly owed "the shady guys" quite a lot of money. ".

FACT: Mike's 'financial crisis' was based on ONLY three of his assets:
The MIJAC catalogue
The Sony/ATV catalogue
Neverland Valley Ranch

During the trial it became crystal clear that Mike had not provided all of his bank statements and ledgers to the prosecution.  Mike's estimated debt of $224 million in 2003 was based on INCOMPLETE information.  The calculations on Mike's debt by the forensic accountant, produced by the prosecution, were crushed by Tom Mesereau during cross examination, and in the end the expert testified that Mike had never gone bankrupt and that it was entirely possible that Mike could solve his "liquidity problems' in just one day.

Keeping this in mind, I'm having a hard time believing Mike would have been entangled in the nets of the mafia for financial reasons.

[Raven]

Mjboogie, his familymembers also suspect foul play. Recall Joe, LaToya and Janet saying this in interviews. I am confident they made this more than clear to the investigators and the family has also mentioned that they were content with the way the investigation was being handled. LaToya also stated in an interview with Barbara Walters (sp.?) that Michael numerous times said to her that he was concerned they were going to kill him and 'if i am dead, they have murdered me'.
What is strange again, is that in that very interview she also states that because of that, she immediately suspected Michael was murdered. Then WHY did the family not have the house sealed for criminal investigation and WHY did they go and take things and contaminate the possible crime scene?

Most of our 'knowledge' about Tohme was presented by the main stream media, please keep that in mind.

True. However we do know what Michael's stand towards Tohme was through the phone recordings J. Gaitlin made public. It would not be too hard, with some research, to back the other 'knowledge' up with hard facts.
Mainstream media information ought to be taken with a grain of salt ofcourse, but it can be useful to gain an overall view. Interesting information can subsequently be verified by more trustworthy sources.

It would go too far to research all Michael's contacts as suggested to find a motive. There are many people who might have had a motive. It's an impossible task to find the kind of information intelligence services would gladly get their hands on. One will end up in a quicksand swamp of relations, connections, business transactions and in the end, it will not answer the question to what happened exactly at 25th June.

What we do have for information are the official documents concerning the investigation: e. g. the searchwarrants, death certificate. These will come closest to the truth to my opinion, but so far there have been few fora where these documents have been throughly reviewed. What was found in the house, what do the codes mean, what was Murray suspected of, timeline etc etc.

As I mentioned earlier, Murray's role is also unclear.
Yes, it could have been an accident. He could have been a fall guy. In these cases it is possible that UCLA medical staff managed to resuscitate Michael.
Another option nobody seems to consider, is that he could have helped Michael xscape from the situation he was in. It is unclear what went on in the house around 25th of June, and if Michael was under someone's influence and was indeed being isolated as his family/Joe/Gaitlin/fans and others say, he needed to get out of there. An injection with a substance like propofol would knock Michael out and justify his transfer (escape) out of the house and to UCLA.

[Crescendo]

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wheres the picture where some bald guy (I think it is tohme tohme) who is literally twisting Michael's upper arm? Although I can't prove it to be tohme of course.

I agree with Mo. I wanna be careful in what I take as fact especially coming from the media because obviously they are the ones who report Michael to be gone..

Edit:

Sorry not bald. But still twisting his arm. :cry:

[Raven]

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wheres the picture where some bald guy (I think it is tohme tohme) who is literally twisting Michael's upper arm? Although I can't prove it to be tohme of course.

Sorry not bald. But still twisting his arm. :cry:

The man twisting his arm is Tohme, here is a video of it:
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[mjboogie]

Then if MJ stated these things to Latoya THEY? Who was MJ referring to? I wonder did he ever state who THEY were to LAtoya? Mafia? IDK this is quite interesting never the less don't know if we will know the truth. All I know is like you said if foul play is expected then you are right LAPD should have sealed the scene initially , but we know they did not. This action is bringing me to the conclusion that somehow LAPD is connected, no doubt. Has to be! But as Mo previously stated I dont believe that MJ was in financial stress as the media keeps letting on! But then again if the MAFIA were the ones indeed responsible It has got to be money involved some type of way, drugs , money aren't they usually the reasons this crime ring goes after someone?  I mean if it was the mafia how would they Benefit from murdering MJ? Hmmmmm we have JOe, Latoya, and Janet screaming foul play. even mamma Katherine saying something aint right so I am still trying to make the connection what do ya think. I will list key players (if murder)
A) Tommy Mottolla
B) Thome
C) AEG
D)LAPD
** Remember we here about dishonesty in the police forces all the time right?  DID LAPD want MJ dead? :cry:
I am still with the theory of Hoax or Murder because there is no way this case should drag out as long as it has if there is clearly only one person under investigation right.?
I MEAN SERIOUSLY HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY TO MAKE A DECISION WEATHER TO PROSECUTE? :evil: