The Return

[bec]

KJ, much like MJ, is not a reliable source. She is not under oath so her statements may or may not be factual. She has been proven to be unreliable in her statements in the past, therefore, all of her statements come under scrutiny.

Government sites are much more reliable when it comes to gleaning factual information.

[mindseye]

KJ, much like MJ, is not a reliable source. She is not under oath so her statements may or may not be factual. She has been proven to be unreliable in her statements in the past, therefore, all of her statements come under scrutiny.

Government sites are much more reliable when it comes to gleaning factual information.

I just happen to notice the other day that Paris asked on twitter if anyone knew her time of birth...probably for astrology reading, but anyway someone googled it and sent her the information ... Joseph is used on the kid's birth certificates.

[paula-c]

KJ, much like MJ, is not a reliable source. She is not under oath so her statements may or may not be factual. She has been proven to be unreliable in her statements in the past, therefore, all of her statements come under scrutiny.

Government sites are much more reliable when it comes to gleaning factual information.

I just happen to notice the other day that Paris asked on twitter if anyone knew her time of birth...probably for astrology reading, but anyway someone googled it and sent her the information ... Joseph is used on the kid's birth certificates.

When  appeared for the first time in view at the people that certificate, before or after the 25 of June?

[bec]

And how do we know that BC is real and unaltered? It's not posted to a secure govt site so it's pretty irrelevant.

[~Souza~]

After.

[hesouttamylife]

After.

Exactly, the reason I refrained from posting it earlier.  I have lots of documents with Joseph on them.  But they were all released publicly after June 25th

[blankie]

Larry if you think Michael is dead what are you doing here?? I won't even bother to explain why I believe Michael is alive, for what?? I don't wanna lose my time, after all you won't never believe he is alive unless he returns.

Simple , greatest words !!!! There is no more to say!!  :th_bravo:

[MJonmind]

Larry ain't gonna see it anyway. Trying is waisting your time. It's not a newbie, he was here 3 years ago and still thinks Michael is dead. Either he is whining just because he has too much time on his hands, or he is too lazy to start investigating and reading himself. In both cases, we should not spoon feed him any further.

Agreed.  Some re-visiting is still interesting for us though.

Bec, the only thing about the extra star, is why was it painted into the ‘Michael’ album cover, with matching colors and everything, if not a clue?  TS did explain that there was nothing hoaxy about the extra star, just as he supposedly debunked some other fav hoaxer tidbits.



Shrimp, looking forward to hearing your KJ quote from the 80's! My personal hunch is that MJ's birth name is Joseph, and since the planning of this hoax in the 80's, the confusion has been deliberately inserted in ALL documents.  I've said this before, that I swore I saw a pic of young MJ holding a report card with middle name Joseph, but it's been removed.  There's only a high-school one with no middle name.

[hesouttamylife]

You are right Wishing. I have been trying to find it too.

[~Souza~]

The smoke screen was Joseph. Driver's licences, passports, indictments and FBI files are legal documents. If they say Joe, then his real name is Joe. So everywhere we see Joseph on a document, it is the image and maybe it is even a legal business name or something to be able to use it on certain documents relating to the brand and business MJ. But you don't die as an image or business, you die as a person. Katherine calls him Joseph, Michael says Joseph, Jermaine, La Toya, the court, the FBI etc call him Joe. Confusion all over, exactly according plan. Michael Joseph Jackson is the image "MJ", the King of Pop. I doubt Katherine would swear on the Bible that her son Michael, born in 1958, has Joseph as a middle name.

[Shrimp]

Unfortunately I cannot find the quote of Katherine Jackson, although I was pretty sure it was in her book. I just find no mention of his middle name at all in there.

I found one of Joseph Jackson though, from his book "The Jacksons":
"Then Michael Joseph has come to world. The name "Michael" was chosen by Katherine, and we named him Joseph in my honour."

Also La Toya in one of her books, "Growing up in the Jackson Family" mentions his birth name is Michael Joseph:
"The four kids to come received more typical names: Marlon David, Michael Joseph (whom we usually called Mike), ..."

I know especially La Toya is not to be trusted as it comes to what she has written in her books, but I cannot see why she would lie about Michael's middle name at the time (early nineties).

[Shrimp]

Let me make myself clear: I don't want to start a heated discussion as to his real middle name.

But you know, I have only been here for a couple of months and I have only been reading things about the hoax since then. At the time of his 'death', I was very busy with my job, baby, pregnancy, new house etc. So the whole Joe-Joseph thing is rather new to me.

When I first came across the issue, it was a post in which someone asked which name was the real one, and I immediately thought 'Joseph of course', because that was the only middle name I had seen of him in all these years of being a fan. I was genuinely surprised that the answers to the question all directed to 'Joe'.

I read some books about him, read things on line, once even did a little paper on him for school and therefore went to the library to take copies of a pop encyclopedia. In my memory, it always was Michael Joseph Jackson.

It might sound stupid, but I'm actually pretty sure of this because I really like his name (although I reckon Michael Joseph is a very common name in America) and it would have stood out to me if I would have seen 'Michael Joe' somewhere.

[~Souza~]

Also La Toya in one of her books, "Growing up in the Jackson Family" mentions his birth name is Michael Joseph:
"The four kids to come received more typical names: Marlon David, Michael Joseph (whom we usually called Mike), ..."

Michael Joe / Mike Joseph. Michael Joseph / Mike Joe. Lol.

Thinking Michael Joseph is nicer, doesn't change his middle name, neither does the public believing it is.

[hesouttamylife]

I understand the frustration Shrimp.  But the entire time we have known of Michael Jackson, it has been as a star.  If his name had been changed for business purposes early in his career, then all we would have ever seen is Joseph.  I don’t know if that’s a valid explanation, but it seems kind of logical to me.  To preserve some of his privacy since he was a small child when he started, I can truly understand giving him a slightly augmented stage name.  Not so much that he would feel he was being made to appear as someone else, but using his father’s name (could be Joseph’s own ego tripping,  :LolLolLolLol:) which would have been more comforting in a sense.

[~Souza~]

BTW Shrimp, is it possible to quote that complete part about all the names? Or a link to it online or something?