Michael Jackson and Doppelganger

[Its her]

A lot of people don't have a soul of steel like you, Bec, Mo, Souza, etc, and to learn that all this time was WASTED on fakes.. God. This hoax has showed me some of the most sick ideas on Earth, and knowing that practically Michael's whole life is a total waste.. That person here named Hopeless is a pretty good summary, since reading this nothing about "Michael" brings me joy anymore, just worry and depression..anyone who cares even a little will have a piece of their heart smashed by this, what else would you think?

That is quite something you state here PinkTopaz.  Soul of steel?  No, I don't have a soul of steal, I'm just being realistic, down to earth.  We have compared hundreds of photos over the last months, as we noticed different facial features in the beginning of the hoax already.  Maybe the fact that Souza and I are not fans made it easier for us to realize quite quickly that there has been more than one MJ for years, but that doesn't mean we have souls of steel.  Believe me, we had a very rough time researching MK Ultra and some of the other subjects we wrote theories about, those didn't leave us untouched.  It has been an emotional roller-coaster for me as well.

I wouldn't say Mike's whole life is a total waste, quite the contrary.  I'm sorry to hear that you feel that way.  Try to take some distance from your personal feelings, it will be easier to look at the big picture when you're not so emotionally involved.

I know you guys were affected by MK because you'd have to be inhuman not to. However, I am a very weak person emotionally, and I guess it just feels like everyone else is able to bear everything so much better.. I've never taken distance from my feelings before, and I don't know how.. I'm just so afraid that I'll come out of this seeing Michael as a total stranger, physically, outside, and on the inside, I know it's selfish and stupid but I just can't deny that it will break my heart completely.. and I say it's been a waste because he's had SUCH an impact on this world, and so many, many poor people love and respect.. well, a lie, really.. His genius, his personality don't have an ounce of authentic soul in them anymore, who knows who said or did this or that..

Pink Topaz, I hear your anxiety, but try to resist being taken over by emotions like anger automatically. It is just the initial panic which goes with ANYthing unknown.

Since MJ "died", EVERYone who enjoyed ANYthing about him has been shaken to their core---even people who swear they were not fans (I secretly think they misunderstand what is meant by "fan" ---one doesn't HAVE to be over the top NUTSo, to REALLY appreciate the most talented guy on our planet. If you gasped and had to bite your lip, when you heard---YOU felt ROBBED and qualify as a "fan").

@ "...and I say it's been a waste because he's had SUCH an impact on this world, and so many, many poor people love and respect.. well, a lie, really.. His genius, his personality don't have an ounce of authentic soul in them anymore, who knows who said or did this or that...":

Many other women fans (not speaking of you),  who have objectified him as some kind of sex toy ARE going to feel embarrassed and foolish, at getting so PUBLICLY ( :oops: all :oops: over the :oops: dang WEB!!) hot and bothered over multiple imposters. People whose ego was all out there, connecting themselves to him in some bogus wannabe way, WILL, probably, feel "had".

If you loved his Essence---what he GAVE of himself for us---think---this is you and me, eh? You won't REALLY feel duped or that EVERYTHING about him was fake.

I can't speak for you, actually, just trying to lighten this "dark" secret up for you so it won't be taken personally as a weapon towards you. THINK. He was the most famous man in the universe. How on earth :lol: could he do everything fans expected of him, if there was only ONE body to go around?? People never really thought about it, but y'all are asking him to be some supernatural Santy-Clause. :?

I do believe that ALL acts of ministry were MJ himself---touching all the children, personally, himself.

But, entertainment is entertainment. "Michael Jackson, K.O.P"  has turned into a CHARACTER, bigger than LIFE, much like Mickey Mouse and Ronald McDonald. Bigger than life, MEANS hiring a staff of look a likes to PLAY him in the show, later on... It's not evil, it is astute business. TOO many people wanted him. He found a way to give them what they wanted. Please, don't turn on him, now.

Do you feel you COULD have enough faith in someone you've read and listened to for years, to TRUST that he's not lying when he SAID this is ALL FOR LOVE? If he's a liar, it will all come out, anyway. Why not just wait before you get your (Pink, you are not alone) tails in a big knot? If he doesn't come back or explain/ admit this hoax this year, you'll be holding on to resentment a LOOONG time. That's not good for your health.

I believe HIM. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt. He's NOT evil.

It IS all for love, I am sure of it.  :wink:

HIS whole life can NEVER :!: be a waste (even if EVERYone turns their backs on him and quits playing "Hoax" because they are all mad :roll: ) SIMPLY because of what he does to ME, EVERY day :-).

If I had NEVER laid eyes  on his physical charm, I would have been madly in love with just the things he wrote and the WAY he SAYS them. His passion for God, for the innocent, for Romance, Love, for what's RIGHT and wrong with the world; the HEART and feeling in his music and lyrics. God. NONE of that GIFT to me could ever be a waste. Oh, no, no, no....

You NEED to differentiate between the man and the "persona" of the Brand he created.

HE's real.

His heart and soul are real.

This MAN was NEVER ours . You know that.

Yeah, every female says they want to marry him. :roll: Good luck with that.

Look inside-----you KNOW.

The ONLY one that COULD belong to all of us, would be someone HE, in his GENIUS, had found a way to MULTIPLY. Don't be sad. He supplied the world's demand. What's evil about that?   It's business. Show business. NONE of this is EVER real. The fact that we failed to detect that truth, only separates HIM from the amateurs!!!  Be proud---not mad!!  I think the "piece by piece" thing is to break it to us gently, BECAUSE he loves his fans, and realized people were taking the "show" too seriously (THAT, and the other, more serious NEED for a hoaxed death, which remains to be seen).

I would not be at all surprised, if we found out he and his real family had gone into full time ministry (yeah, :idea: CHURCH, religious!) ministry, doing missions work in some giant-leafed jungle these last 10--15 years, only coming out to record some new stuff for us. He would DO what GOD (Love) told him, you know :-) .

His work is real. The heart you feel there is all that matters. Be grateful and feel blessed.

I think he is way sweeter than any of us imagined, and perhaps he thought the media and world, having ridiculed and, later, villified him, would NOT be able to get their heads around "missionary MJ', maybe even disrupting/ harming the "work"...just my opinion. Trying to help, here. Waiting to SEE, like everyone else...:wink:

[~Souza~]

15 Pages and FINALLY someone with a voice of reason. Thank you for your comment Its her, that is exactly the point, I have nothing to add.

Well maybe that people shouldn't even be mad if he turns out to have another job than you mention. It's his life, no one else's. Who the hell are we to tell him what to do, who to be, what to wear or how to look? It's none of our business. Artists make music. If you like the music, you buy a cd. If the artist is having a gig, you might go to a concert. That's all you get, and that's all you can expect. Whatever that artist does in his own, real life, is his or her business and we should respect that.

Mike deceived you? Really? He gave too much and people put him on a horse as high as the Empire State Building. He might have used doubles in public, but I really don't think the doubles had 300 million to spend on charity, HE did that. He also gave his fans 45 years of his life, he made sacrifices in life to please his fans. He has been slandered, ridiculed, accused, laughed at, put on fire ad STILL he went into his recording studio to give you all a new album. For all those years he took the beatings. I think I would have been in a mental institution years ago, if I had to go through all that shit. Isn't there anyone that can at least try to imagine how his life must have been like? Never being able to just go shopping on your own without a bunch of 8-feet-talls to protect you and without the damn paps behind the window shooting pictures of you, making up a story and publish CRAP the next day or fans HAUNTING him down and almost kill him, just to touch him? Not being able to trust anyone because they all want you for the $$$$$$$$$ ?

He didn't deceive anyone, he gave waaaaaaay too much and he paid the price. And then be mad and turn your back on him if he might have used doubles? Shame on you who think that way.

So I had a lot more to add actually and i will stop now before I really get mad, but this seriously pisses me off.

[hesouttamylife]

I have sadly avoided this thread like the plague. But oh my God, this is so very possible.  I often wondered why MJ would be out in those obvious getups and thought, that they would draw more attention than not, bandages and masks, etc.  "But when I look at it this way, it makes a lot of sense.  The person who is shown at the beginning of the film I don't really believe had any major surgeries to look like Michael.  He probably looked a lot like him from jump, body type, bone structure, and possibly discovered so early in his life and mimicked Michael for so long that he has possibly perfected the MJ persona and it's now another part of him.  We don't really know what MJ has been doing for the last 4 or 5 years, or do we?  I certainly don't and I'll be first to admit that.  So I was a little thrown off when I saw 02 Michael, but I wasn't shocked because I had not seen him make an appearance in years.  I thought, my he has changed, but wasn't he in a wheelchair last I saw him?  What a speedy recovery.  The idea that while Michael was secluded or what ever you chose to call it, and the double(s) were making all the little appearances possibly thinking MJ was on the way out and now was their chance to shine, for him to suddenly be back in the spotlight could make for some resentment issues with the gangers.  Like we've been you all this time, now you want to come back and put us on the shelf, not cool.  Wow.  I don't know but the theories are very interesting.  I will read all the posts, but I just had to stop and say how brilliant this is.  Very good video.  It causes me to wonder.  How many Michael's are there?  Who died?  Who didn't?  Now I am confused AGAIN.  Might I add that it must have been impossible to be Michael all the time.  I would've given it up a long time ago so I applaud him.  Everybody needs a break sometimes, even me.  I cannot imagine having the schedule MJ had.  No way.  Talk about doubles, lol.  There would have been many throughout the years.

[Its her]

What do you think of this myspace of the Real Michael Jackson?
Compare his pictures to the young MJ boy pictures.
[attachment=1:2tc2785z]realmichaeljackson_myspace.jpg[/attachment:2tc2785z]

[attachment=0:2tc2785z]realmichaeljackson_myspace_2.jpg[/attachment:2tc2785z]

Read the incredible statements there.
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Think outside of the box with what we know now.

Could it be that the MJ we know was planted for marketing purposes to keep the brand going?
Just asking your thoughts.

I read the "Exclusive Interview" on that myspace in which a cloning process is described which allegedly took place in 1972.  According to that interview the real MJ was replaced with a clone.

In order to clone scientists transplant the genetic information from a specialized cell into an unfertilized egg cell whose genetic information has been destroyed or physically removed.  If the egg begins to divide normally it is transferred into the uterus of the surrogate mother.  

Therefor it would have taken almost 15 years to produce a clone of the then 14 years old Michael Jackson, so that debunks that theory for me.  Next to that we have no idea if cloning could be done already in 1972 as, to our knowledge, Dolly the Sheep was the first mammal to have been successfully cloned from an adult cell in 1996.

I wouldn't worry about the stories told on myspace, OR the picture which obviously is photoshopped from teenaged MJ's most flattering photos, and probably a brother or other older relative of his's similarities in face shape. It DOES take your breath away for about a hot 2 seconds! But the Poser SHOULD have kept his mouth shut. The minute he said he was the real MJ and gave it ALL up to be just a regular guy---AND that he expected me to believe God's crowning glory of creation--a human Man---could be cloned---

GONG! (remember the "Gong Show"?) :lol:

I got my hook and jerked him off the stage of my attention span. If you are going to LIE, you MUST make it at least have some element of believability, or it is just a TALL TALE.  

We didn't have the technology to clone human beings back then, any more than we had the technology to send and retrieve a manned flight to the Moon, in 1969 (look at the tv quality back then in historical footage---would YOU have gone to the Moon, with junkie prehistoric equipment like that??)  (now, we DID have all kinds of mind-"seeding"(I'll be polite) technique and technology, in order to DECEIVE the ones who testified that they had gone there!).  

Mo touched on it a little bit, but I must tell you that cloning a human being is and will always be impossible, because it is God who puts the spirit and soul inside the human being (flesh)at conception, and He only gives ONE "spirit/soul" package per body. Just reproducing the DNA which goes with a personality(soul/spirit) which God placed here) WON"T reproduce the spirit or soul. :? If human flesh will ever be able to be cloned, it won't live long enough to take a second meal, because it will have NO volitional command center, without God's input; Only God creates life.  

It would CERTAINLY NEVER be able to do the likes of things MJ's impersonator(s) learned to do !!!!!!! It would be just like Dolly the sheep. Speechless and sheepish. That is the truth.

Another thing is, we already KNOW too much about Michael Jackson to believe THAT genius talent quit it all and 32 years later decides he wants to sing again. Again, GONG.

Wrong.

I SAW MJ TAKE over an American Bandstand interview with Dick Clark, when I was a child. That itty bitty boy knew what he wanted THEN and TOOK over. Yeah, maybe he wondered what, if he had missed of a normal childhood, later, SOME, but the guy I saw THAT day was the BOSS and captain of his own :idea: illustrious career. He was not hating ANY of that, :!: NOR the large paychecks his dad forwarded to him to be invested creatively. Nope.

It's really hard to tell anything from pictures---even non photoshopped ones.

Line up the live ones and I'll give you the copies. [as long as I get to keep the Real Deal, once picked :wink: ] :!: :lol: ha ha ha

Doubles, yes. Twins, no. Clones, H. E. double hockey-stix, NO. :!:

[GirlSaturday]

Reminder: There is an entirely different world that some people live in. Each time that I  watch tv or read an article  and learn about other lifestyles I am amazed at how an open-minded person such as myself can sometimes be so cut off and naive about some things. There are people who do what needs to be done for sheer survival. It is foreign to most of us because we have not been backed into that corner and forced to make such life altering decisions. We see the sunny side to celebrity life. We envy celebrities and wish to have what they have. However, we do not see the really ugly side. We think that we do however we do not at all. The very things that we take for granted, they cannot. Their celebrity status is a strong trade off for the normal things that we enjoy on a daily basis. I cannot imagine sitting in a restaurant and having complete strangers stare at me while I ate a cheeseburger and fries. People like MJ cannot go out in public and eat their food without such stares.  Privacy is something that I cherish and the thought of not having any makes my skin crawl. MJ did not have privacy. That man couldn't fart without five people standing around to analyze it. If he found a way to claim privacy then why is that questoned and challenged. If he managed to keep a part of himself while compromising and giving the public a likeness of him then what is so wrong with that. Open your doors and let the entire world come inside of your life for just one week. Most of us would go nuts and beg for our privacy.

[PinkTopaz]

15 Pages and FINALLY someone with a voice of reason. Thank you for your comment Its her, that is exactly the point, I have nothing to add.

Yeah yeah, Souza, I know I've been an idiot in here..I've cleared things up with myself, but boy was that a fresh rubbing-it-in..

Pink Topaz, I hear your anxiety, but try to resist being taken over by emotions like anger automatically. It is just the initial panic which goes with ANYthing unknown.

Since MJ "died", EVERYone who enjoyed ANYthing about him has been shaken to their core---even people who swear they were not fans (I secretly think they misunderstand what is meant by "fan" ---one doesn't HAVE to be over the top NUTSo, to REALLY appreciate the most talented guy on our planet. If you gasped and had to bite your lip, when you heard---YOU felt ROBBED and qualify as a "fan").

@ "...and I say it's been a waste because he's had SUCH an impact on this world, and so many, many poor people love and respect.. well, a lie, really.. His genius, his personality don't have an ounce of authentic soul in them anymore, who knows who said or did this or that...":

Many other women fans (not speaking of you), who have objectified him as some kind of sex toy ARE going to feel embarrassed and foolish, at getting so PUBLICLY ( :oops: all :oops: over the :oops: dang WEB!!) hot and bothered over multiple imposters. People whose ego was all out there, connecting themselves to him in some bogus wannabe way, WILL, probably, feel "had".

If you loved his Essence---what he GAVE of himself for us---think---this is you and me, eh? You won't REALLY feel duped or that EVERYTHING about him was fake.

I can't speak for you, actually, just trying to lighten this "dark" secret up for you so it won't be taken personally as a weapon towards you. THINK. He was the most famous man in the universe. How on earth :lol: could he do everything fans expected of him, if there was only ONE body to go around?? People never really thought about it, but y'all are asking him to be some supernatural Santy-Clause. :?

I never went so far as to spew fantasies like that all over the web (LOL!) or any of that pretending to be his wife stuff, but I don't think I (and probably you) could say without being even slightly dishonest that we've never lusted after him.. righhht? Just saying..

I do believe that ALL acts of ministry were MJ himself---touching all the children, personally, himself.

But, entertainment is entertainment. "Michael Jackson, K.O.P" has turned into a CHARACTER, bigger than LIFE, much like Mickey Mouse and Ronald McDonald. Bigger than life, MEANS hiring a staff of look a likes to PLAY him in the show, later on... It's not evil, it is astute business. TOO many people wanted him. He found a way to give them what they wanted. Please, don't turn on him, now.

Now, I get what you mean by entertainment is entertainment, HOWEVER, these are the things I absolutely cannot stand. The bolded phrase just sounds ridiculous and sick. I HATE this process of marketing famous PEOPLE like objects, because that's what CREATES the stupid insane fans in the first place, by giving them too much. It may be buisness, but that buisness IS evil. All of these words like "show", "good buisness", "illusion" that I've seen being used so often- all of those when applied to real people just sound so twisted.. If it weren't that way in the first place, there wouldn't be so many maniac fans to "want" him.. However I never understood that phrase, because I know stupid crowds form sometimes when he goes out- but fans can't really demand him to DO anything, no matter how much they want it, I mean, he's the one who releases the music and does the concerts according to his scheduling or whatever..

Do you feel you COULD have enough faith in someone you've read and listened to for years, to TRUST that he's not lying when he SAID this is ALL FOR LOVE?

I don't exactly get what you're trying to ask me here, and I haven't known about him this well for even three years, mind you..  

If he's a liar, it will all come out, anyway. Why not just wait before you get your (Pink, you are not alone) tails in a big knot? If he doesn't come back or explain/ admit this hoax this year, you'll be holding on to resentment a LOOONG time. That's not good for your health.

I wrote all this a while back and my feelings have eased down since. I know that all I can do is wait, of course. However, if he doesn't get back here SOON and explain what's been happening, I WILL be resentful, darnit, I'm getting very tired of all of this speculating..

I believe HIM. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt. He's NOT evil.

It IS all for love, I am sure of it. :wink:

I've heard so many people say that, but what exactly does "it's all for love" mean with this hoax?

HIS whole life can NEVER :!: be a waste (even if EVERYone turns their backs on him and quits playing "Hoax" because they are all mad :roll: ) SIMPLY because of what he does to ME, EVERY day :-).

If I had NEVER laid eyes on his physical charm, I would have been madly in love with just the things he wrote and the WAY he SAYS them. His passion for God, for the innocent, for Romance, Love, for what's RIGHT and wrong with the world; the HEART and feeling in his music and lyrics. God. NONE of that GIFT to me could ever be a waste. Oh, no, no, no....

I pretty much feel that way, too. I've always been a very people-person, though, I can easily love all of the things you've said, but I'm the type of person who doesn't feel it's complete without an image to go with it, a real person.I can't really describe it, but I care a lot about people, other people.
Types like you always make me feel like that's wrong, somehow. All of this confusion and deception and pretend nonsense- I've never handled confusion about something so important to me without negative feelings about the positive feelings I had in the past, that's what I meant at the time that I wrote that about the waste thing..

You NEED to differentiate between the man and the "persona" of the Brand he created.

Dear God, could I feel any stupider? I know that, of course I know the difference, I know that that whole "Peter Pan" image, that "mystery man" was just that PR stuff that every celebrity (annoyingly) has.

HE's real.

His heart and soul are real.

This MAN was NEVER ours . You know that.


Yeah, every female says they want to marry him. :roll: Good luck with that.

Look inside-----you KNOW.

Of course.. nice rubbing it in, there, again. I am determined to meet him, though, not to be a fanatic, but to act like a normal friend to him and apologize for the fans..

The ONLY one that COULD belong to all of us, would be someone HE, in his GENIUS, had found a way to MULTIPLY. Don't be sad. He supplied the world's demand.

As I said, there is no "demand" for him to walk down the streets.

What's evil about that? It's business. Show business. NONE of this is EVER real.

You answered your own question- all of that aspect of "buisness" and none of it being real IS evil, because deception and fakery is not right, and I'm not talking about him.
 

The fact that we failed to detect that truth, only separates HIM from the amateurs!!! Be proud---not mad!!

When I wrote this, the types of theories that said that we haven't seen the real one and only fakes for like fifteen years are the thing that were upsetting me so badly. On the other hand, I will never be proud of "failing to detect that truth". I don't mean that I'll be furious at Michael, but I really really wish people had talked about this issue this way, way before this hoax. I wish people, including us, wouldn't have been so stupid about all of that fakery for so long, so it wouldn't even have to be that way..
 

I think the "piece by piece" thing is to break it to us gently, BECAUSE he loves his fans, and realized people were taking the "show" too seriously (THAT, and the other, more serious NEED for a hoaxed death, which remains to be seen).

I would not be at all surprised, if we found out he and his real family had gone into full time ministry (yeah, :idea: CHURCH, religious!) ministry, doing missions work in some giant-leafed jungle these last 10--15 years, only coming out to record some new stuff for us. He would DO what GOD (Love) told him, you know :-) .

His work is real. The heart you feel there is all that matters. Be grateful and feel blessed.

I think he is way sweeter than any of us imagined, and perhaps he thought the media and world, having ridiculed and, later, villified him, would NOT be able to get their heads around "missionary MJ', maybe even disrupting/ harming the "work"...just my opinion. Trying to help, here. Waiting to SEE, like everyone else...:wink:

As I said, I am about people and their hearts, and if I am confused about a person, I can't fully feel "grateful and blessed", until I find out the truth. I want to say now,  before the 25th and especially since it, the main thing that upsets me is that stuff Michael says, like in that Boteach book, about being SO, SO lonely, about feeling alone and like no one loves him.. All I want, MOST of all, is for him to come back and tell us that a lot of that was PR, that his life wasn't so isolated and that he wasn't so sad all of the time, thinking that "this is the way it has to be" and being like a prisoner.. That's what hurts most. That's what makes me so angry at the stupid sick system, the "buisness", at his father, at the stupid fans.. What makes me angry when I think about fakers in his place and PR lies is again that thought of the "way it has to be", because it DOESN'T! There has to be a balance of celebrity and normalcy without having to deceive people and without people being crazy over it!! Why should it make famous people resort to deception?! All I want is for him to come back and tell us.. I have to avoid things that deal too much with his pain, I can't listen to Will You Be There, Man in the Mirror, Heal the World, Stranger in Moscow without crying.. Please please Lord, you and Michael both have mercy on us as soon as possible, let us know the solid truth.. Because like you said above me there, GirlSaturday, I don't want his suffering to have been as bad as some think for so long..

[GirlSaturday]

Darlin'...he may never come back and especially in the way that fans want him to return. We must move past that. Move forward and move on. That man has given 45+ years of his life to complete strangers and he gave them what they thought that they wanted from the man. Let's realistically look at our own lives and imagine that sort of sacrifice. Call me a selfish bitch... but ...I cannot imagine giving myself to complete strangers in that way and for that duration of time. No way and no how. I could have never been a celebrity. At some point, I would  have bluntly told people to kiss my....

15 Pages and FINALLY someone with a voice of reason. Thank you for your comment Its her, that is exactly the point, I have nothing to add.

Yeah yeah, Souza, I know I've been an idiot in here..I've cleared things up with myself, but boy was that a fresh rubbing-it-in..

Pink Topaz, I hear your anxiety, but try to resist being taken over by emotions like anger automatically. It is just the initial panic which goes with ANYthing unknown.

Since MJ "died", EVERYone who enjoyed ANYthing about him has been shaken to their core---even people who swear they were not fans (I secretly think they misunderstand what is meant by "fan" ---one doesn't HAVE to be over the top NUTSo, to REALLY appreciate the most talented guy on our planet. If you gasped and had to bite your lip, when you heard---YOU felt ROBBED and qualify as a "fan").

@ "...and I say it's been a waste because he's had SUCH an impact on this world, and so many, many poor people love and respect.. well, a lie, really.. His genius, his personality don't have an ounce of authentic soul in them anymore, who knows who said or did this or that...":

Many other women fans (not speaking of you), who have objectified him as some kind of sex toy ARE going to feel embarrassed and foolish, at getting so PUBLICLY ( :oops: all :oops: over the :oops: dang WEB!!) hot and bothered over multiple imposters. People whose ego was all out there, connecting themselves to him in some bogus wannabe way, WILL, probably, feel "had".

If you loved his Essence---what he GAVE of himself for us---think---this is you and me, eh? You won't REALLY feel duped or that EVERYTHING about him was fake.

I can't speak for you, actually, just trying to lighten this "dark" secret up for you so it won't be taken personally as a weapon towards you. THINK. He was the most famous man in the universe. How on earth :lol: could he do everything fans expected of him, if there was only ONE body to go around?? People never really thought about it, but y'all are asking him to be some supernatural Santy-Clause. :?

I never went so far as to spew fantasies like that all over the web (LOL!) or any of that pretending to be his wife stuff, but I don't think I (and probably you) could say without being even slightly dishonest that we've never lusted after him.. righhht? Just saying..

I do believe that ALL acts of ministry were MJ himself---touching all the children, personally, himself.

But, entertainment is entertainment. "Michael Jackson, K.O.P" has turned into a CHARACTER, bigger than LIFE, much like Mickey Mouse and Ronald McDonald. Bigger than life, MEANS hiring a staff of look a likes to PLAY him in the show, later on... It's not evil, it is astute business. TOO many people wanted him. He found a way to give them what they wanted. Please, don't turn on him, now.

Now, I get what you mean by entertainment is entertainment, HOWEVER, these are the things I absolutely cannot stand. The bolded phrase just sounds ridiculous and sick. I HATE this process of marketing famous PEOPLE like objects, because that's what CREATES the stupid insane fans in the first place, by giving them too much. It may be buisness, but that buisness IS evil. All of these words like "show", "good buisness", "illusion" that I've seen being used so often- all of those when applied to real people just sound so twisted.. If it weren't that way in the first place, there wouldn't be so many maniac fans to "want" him.. However I never understood that phrase, because I know stupid crowds form sometimes when he goes out- but fans can't really demand him to DO anything, no matter how much they want it, I mean, he's the one who releases the music and does the concerts according to his scheduling or whatever..

Do you feel you COULD have enough faith in someone you've read and listened to for years, to TRUST that he's not lying when he SAID this is ALL FOR LOVE?

I don't exactly get what you're trying to ask me here, and I haven't known about him this well for even three years, mind you..  

If he's a liar, it will all come out, anyway. Why not just wait before you get your (Pink, you are not alone) tails in a big knot? If he doesn't come back or explain/ admit this hoax this year, you'll be holding on to resentment a LOOONG time. That's not good for your health.

I wrote all this a while back and my feelings have eased down since. I know that all I can do is wait, of course. However, if he doesn't get back here SOON and explain what's been happening, I WILL be resentful, darnit, I'm getting very tired of all of this speculating..

I believe HIM. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt. He's NOT evil.

It IS all for love, I am sure of it. :wink:

I've heard so many people say that, but what exactly does "it's all for love" mean with this hoax?

HIS whole life can NEVER :!: be a waste (even if EVERYone turns their backs on him and quits playing "Hoax" because they are all mad :roll: ) SIMPLY because of what he does to ME, EVERY day :-).

If I had NEVER laid eyes on his physical charm, I would have been madly in love with just the things he wrote and the WAY he SAYS them. His passion for God, for the innocent, for Romance, Love, for what's RIGHT and wrong with the world; the HEART and feeling in his music and lyrics. God. NONE of that GIFT to me could ever be a waste. Oh, no, no, no....

I pretty much feel that way, too. I've always been a very people-person, though, I can easily love all of the things you've said, but I'm the type of person who doesn't feel it's complete without an image to go with it, a real person.I can't really describe it, but I care a lot about people, other people.
Types like you always make me feel like that's wrong, somehow. All of this confusion and deception and pretend nonsense- I've never handled confusion about something so important to me without negative feelings about the positive feelings I had in the past, that's what I meant at the time that I wrote that about the waste thing..

You NEED to differentiate between the man and the "persona" of the Brand he created.

Dear God, could I feel any stupider? I know that, of course I know the difference, I know that that whole "Peter Pan" image, that "mystery man" was just that PR stuff that every celebrity (annoyingly) has.

HE's real.

His heart and soul are real.

This MAN was NEVER ours . You know that.


Yeah, every female says they want to marry him. :roll: Good luck with that.

Look inside-----you KNOW.

Of course.. nice rubbing it in, there, again. I am determined to meet him, though, not to be a fanatic, but to act like a normal friend to him and apologize for the fans..

The ONLY one that COULD belong to all of us, would be someone HE, in his GENIUS, had found a way to MULTIPLY. Don't be sad. He supplied the world's demand.

As I said, there is no "demand" for him to walk down the streets.

What's evil about that? It's business. Show business. NONE of this is EVER real.

You answered your own question- all of that aspect of "buisness" and none of it being real IS evil, because deception and fakery is not right, and I'm not talking about him.
 

The fact that we failed to detect that truth, only separates HIM from the amateurs!!! Be proud---not mad!!

When I wrote this, the types of theories that said that we haven't seen the real one and only fakes for like fifteen years are the thing that were upsetting me so badly. On the other hand, I will never be proud of "failing to detect that truth". I don't mean that I'll be furious at Michael, but I really really wish people had talked about this issue this way, way before this hoax. I wish people, including us, wouldn't have been so stupid about all of that fakery for so long, so it wouldn't even have to be that way..
 

I think the "piece by piece" thing is to break it to us gently, BECAUSE he loves his fans, and realized people were taking the "show" too seriously (THAT, and the other, more serious NEED for a hoaxed death, which remains to be seen).

I would not be at all surprised, if we found out he and his real family had gone into full time ministry (yeah, :idea: CHURCH, religious!) ministry, doing missions work in some giant-leafed jungle these last 10--15 years, only coming out to record some new stuff for us. He would DO what GOD (Love) told him, you know :-) .

His work is real. The heart you feel there is all that matters. Be grateful and feel blessed.

I think he is way sweeter than any of us imagined, and perhaps he thought the media and world, having ridiculed and, later, villified him, would NOT be able to get their heads around "missionary MJ', maybe even disrupting/ harming the "work"...just my opinion. Trying to help, here. Waiting to SEE, like everyone else...:wink:

As I said, I am about people and their hearts, and if I am confused about a person, I can't fully feel "grateful and blessed", until I find out the truth. I want to say now,  before the 25th and especially since it, the main thing that upsets me is that stuff Michael says, like in that Boteach book, about being SO, SO lonely, about feeling alone and like no one loves him.. All I want, MOST of all, is for him to come back and tell us that a lot of that was PR, that his life wasn't so isolated and that he wasn't so sad all of the time, thinking that "this is the way it has to be" and being like a prisoner.. That's what hurts most. That's what makes me so angry at the stupid sick system, the "buisness", at his father, at the stupid fans.. What makes me angry when I think about fakers in his place and PR lies is again that thought of the "way it has to be", because it DOESN'T! There has to be a balance of celebrity and normalcy without having to deceive people and without people being crazy over it!! Why should it make famous people resort to deception?! All I want is for him to come back and tell us.. I have to avoid things that deal too much with his pain, I can't listen to Will You Be There, Man in the Mirror, Heal the World, Stranger in Moscow without crying.. Please please Lord, you and Michael both have mercy on us as soon as possible, let us know the solid truth.. Because like you said above me there, GirlSaturday, I don't want his suffering to have been as bad as some think for so long..

[PinkTopaz]

Darlin'...he may never come back and especially in the way that fans want him to return. We must move past that. Move forward and move on. That man has given 45+ years of his life to complete strangers and he gave them what they thought that they wanted from the man. Let's realistically look at our own lives and imagine that sort of sacrifice. Call me a selfish bitch... but ...I cannot imagine giving myself to complete strangers in that way and for that duration of time. No way and no how. I could have never been a celebrity. At some point, I would  have bluntly told people to kiss my....

I know that. I am prepared for that. But as of now, I am firmly convinced that he is alive, and that he will return, because I do also believe that the Illuminati/New World Order movement exists and has had a lot to do with him. But I have already mourned and grieved in the while before I knew about the hoax.. I realize I may have to live with it. But what do you mean by the especially not in the way and the thought they wanted part?

But what you say at the end there, that's EXACTLY what I was going to say- that I think he would be so much better off if he HAD said, like twenty years ago, "Hey, fans, stop being so nosy and intrusive, stop acting like wild baboons whenever I try to go somewhere".. I've seen how people who admire him listen to what he says, if he had JUST been more assertive, "If you like me than treat me like one of your friends, dammit!" I KNOW there would have been a great reduction in the amount of peope who like him bothering him.. So many times I've wished I could rewind the clock and give him a little shake and say "Speak up if the stupid fans go overboard- don't be afraid to tell 'em off, cuz they' may go crazy but they will listen to you!"

[MJonmind]

Boy this is really agonizing, and wish this wasn't part of the hoax. I'm either way on this one. One thing I know for sure is Orange pants wasn't MJ. Various times in interviews MJ would seem slightly different though I couldn't put my finger on it precisely, yet I would happily agree they were all him, if MJ himself were to say that. I do think that MJ loved the mystery aspect, loved playing tricks from early age, and may have set out to make it appear that there were doubles by doing various changes, even signing his name with 2 different signatures. There is one thing that has been sticking in my mind and I don't think anyone mentioned it. In the song Threatened, he sings  "This particular monster can read minds
Be in two places at the same time."  If he can be in 2 places at the same time perhaps there is two MJ. But I know the whole song is about creepy visuals that most likely are for drama and not to be taken seriously like,  "my face in the walls", and "I'm everywhere". The least complicated is for MJ to be ingeniously altering make-up, lighting, hair, etc. quickly. Having the doubles exponentially increases the problems of how this could have happened for 20 years, everyone close to him hiding it . Michael talked so much about being so lonely, and if he had a true double for 20+ years, this double must have stayed virtually around him all the time so that he knew everything, did everything, felt everything the same. How then could he have been lonely?  I know there's a few pics showing MJ with a double in same costume, but I assume that is a stand-in double only for simple shots or scenes where audiences would easily assume it was MJ. My 2 cents.

[Its her]

15 Pages and FINALLY someone with a voice of reason. Thank you for your comment Its her, that is exactly the point, I have nothing to add.

Yeah yeah, Souza, I know I've been an idiot in here..I've cleared things up with myself, but boy was that a fresh rubbing-it-in..

Pink Topaz, I hear your anxiety, but try to resist being taken over by emotions like anger automatically. It is just the initial panic which goes with ANYthing unknown.

Since MJ "died", EVERYone who enjoyed ANYthing about him has been shaken to their core---even people who swear they were not fans (I secretly think they misunderstand what is meant by "fan" ---one doesn't HAVE to be over the top NUTSo, to REALLY appreciate the most talented guy on our planet. If you gasped and had to bite your lip, when you heard---YOU felt ROBBED and qualify as a "fan").

@ "...and I say it's been a waste because he's had SUCH an impact on this world, and so many, many poor people love and respect.. well, a lie, really.. His genius, his personality don't have an ounce of authentic soul in them anymore, who knows who said or did this or that...":

Many other women fans (not speaking of you), who have objectified him as some kind of sex toy ARE going to feel embarrassed and foolish, at getting so PUBLICLY ( :oops: all :oops: over the :oops: dang WEB!!) hot and bothered over multiple imposters. People whose ego was all out there, connecting themselves to him in some bogus wannabe way, WILL, probably, feel "had".

If you loved his Essence---what he GAVE of himself for us---think---this is you and me, eh? You won't REALLY feel duped or that EVERYTHING about him was fake.

I can't speak for you, actually, just trying to lighten this "dark" secret up for you so it won't be taken personally as a weapon towards you. THINK. He was the most famous man in the universe. How on earth :lol: could he do everything fans expected of him, if there was only ONE body to go around?? People never really thought about it, but y'all are asking him to be some supernatural Santy-Clause. :?

I never went so far as to spew fantasies like that all over the web (LOL!) or any of that pretending to be his wife stuff, but I don't think I (and probably you) could say without being even slightly dishonest that we've never lusted after him.. righhht? Just saying..

I do believe that ALL acts of ministry were MJ himself---touching all the children, personally, himself.

But, entertainment is entertainment. "Michael Jackson, K.O.P" has turned into a CHARACTER, bigger than LIFE, much like Mickey Mouse and Ronald McDonald. Bigger than life, MEANS hiring a staff of look a likes to PLAY him in the show, later on... It's not evil, it is astute business. TOO many people wanted him. He found a way to give them what they wanted. Please, don't turn on him, now.

Now, I get what you mean by entertainment is entertainment, HOWEVER, these are the things I absolutely cannot stand. The bolded phrase just sounds ridiculous and sick. I HATE this process of marketing famous PEOPLE like objects, because that's what CREATES the stupid insane fans in the first place, by giving them too much. It may be buisness, but that buisness IS evil. All of these words like "show", "good buisness", "illusion" that I've seen being used so often- all of those when applied to real people just sound so twisted.. If it weren't that way in the first place, there wouldn't be so many maniac fans to "want" him.. However I never understood that phrase, because I know stupid crowds form sometimes when he goes out- but fans can't really demand him to DO anything, no matter how much they want it, I mean, he's the one who releases the music and does the concerts according to his scheduling or whatever..

Do you feel you COULD have enough faith in someone you've read and listened to for years, to TRUST that he's not lying when he SAID this is ALL FOR LOVE?

I don't exactly get what you're trying to ask me here, and I haven't known about him this well for even three years, mind you..  

If he's a liar, it will all come out, anyway. Why not just wait before you get your (Pink, you are not alone) tails in a big knot? If he doesn't come back or explain/ admit this hoax this year, you'll be holding on to resentment a LOOONG time. That's not good for your health.

I wrote all this a while back and my feelings have eased down since. I know that all I can do is wait, of course. However, if he doesn't get back here SOON and explain what's been happening, I WILL be resentful, darnit, I'm getting very tired of all of this speculating..

I believe HIM. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt. He's NOT evil.

It IS all for love, I am sure of it. :wink:

I've heard so many people say that, but what exactly does "it's all for love" mean with this hoax?

HIS whole life can NEVER :!: be a waste (even if EVERYone turns their backs on him and quits playing "Hoax" because they are all mad :roll: ) SIMPLY because of what he does to ME, EVERY day :-).

If I had NEVER laid eyes on his physical charm, I would have been madly in love with just the things he wrote and the WAY he SAYS them. His passion for God, for the innocent, for Romance, Love, for what's RIGHT and wrong with the world; the HEART and feeling in his music and lyrics. God. NONE of that GIFT to me could ever be a waste. Oh, no, no, no....

I pretty much feel that way, too. I've always been a very people-person, though, I can easily love all of the things you've said, but I'm the type of person who doesn't feel it's complete without an image to go with it, a real person.I can't really describe it, but I care a lot about people, other people.
Types like you always make me feel like that's wrong, somehow. All of this confusion and deception and pretend nonsense- I've never handled confusion about something so important to me without negative feelings about the positive feelings I had in the past, that's what I meant at the time that I wrote that about the waste thing..

You NEED to differentiate between the man and the "persona" of the Brand he created.

Dear God, could I feel any stupider? I know that, of course I know the difference, I know that that whole "Peter Pan" image, that "mystery man" was just that PR stuff that every celebrity (annoyingly) has.

HE's real.

His heart and soul are real.

This MAN was NEVER ours . You know that.


Yeah, every female says they want to marry him. :roll: Good luck with that.

Look inside-----you KNOW.

Of course.. nice rubbing it in, there, again. I am determined to meet him, though, not to be a fanatic, but to act like a normal friend to him and apologize for the fans..

The ONLY one that COULD belong to all of us, would be someone HE, in his GENIUS, had found a way to MULTIPLY. Don't be sad. He supplied the world's demand.

As I said, there is no "demand" for him to walk down the streets.

What's evil about that? It's business. Show business. NONE of this is EVER real.

You answered your own question- all of that aspect of "buisness" and none of it being real IS evil, because deception and fakery is not right, and I'm not talking about him.
 

The fact that we failed to detect that truth, only separates HIM from the amateurs!!! Be proud---not mad!!

When I wrote this, the types of theories that said that we haven't seen the real one and only fakes for like fifteen years are the thing that were upsetting me so badly. On the other hand, I will never be proud of "failing to detect that truth". I don't mean that I'll be furious at Michael, but I really really wish people had talked about this issue this way, way before this hoax. I wish people, including us, wouldn't have been so stupid about all of that fakery for so long, so it wouldn't even have to be that way..
 

I think the "piece by piece" thing is to break it to us gently, BECAUSE he loves his fans, and realized people were taking the "show" too seriously (THAT, and the other, more serious NEED for a hoaxed death, which remains to be seen).

I would not be at all surprised, if we found out he and his real family had gone into full time ministry (yeah, :idea: CHURCH, religious!) ministry, doing missions work in some giant-leafed jungle these last 10--15 years, only coming out to record some new stuff for us. He would DO what GOD (Love) told him, you know :-) .

His work is real. The heart you feel there is all that matters. Be grateful and feel blessed.

I think he is way sweeter than any of us imagined, and perhaps he thought the media and world, having ridiculed and, later, villified him, would NOT be able to get their heads around "missionary MJ', maybe even disrupting/ harming the "work"...just my opinion. Trying to help, here. Waiting to SEE, like everyone else...:wink:

As I said, I am about people and their hearts, and if I am confused about a person, I can't fully feel "grateful and blessed", until I find out the truth. I want to say now,  before the 25th and especially since it, the main thing that upsets me is that stuff Michael says, like in that Boteach book, about being SO, SO lonely, about feeling alone and like no one loves him.. All I want, MOST of all, is for him to come back and tell us that a lot of that was PR, that his life wasn't so isolated and that he wasn't so sad all of the time, thinking that "this is the way it has to be" and being like a prisoner.. That's what hurts most. That's what makes me so angry at the stupid sick system, the "buisness", at his father, at the stupid fans.. What makes me angry when I think about fakers in his place and PR lies is again that thought of the "way it has to be", because it DOESN'T! There has to be a balance of celebrity and normalcy without having to deceive people and without people being crazy over it!! Why should it make famous people resort to deception?! All I want is for him to come back and tell us.. I have to avoid things that deal too much with his pain, I can't listen to Will You Be There, Man in the Mirror, Heal the World, Stranger in Moscow without crying.. Please please Lord, you and Michael both have mercy on us as soon as possible, let us know the solid truth.. Because like you said above me there, GirlSaturday, I don't want his suffering to have been as bad as some think for so long..

PinkTopaz,

I would NEVER ever "rub it in", even if I had made a judgment that you were wrong. I wasn't doing that, either. I felt your frustration and flying off the handle, and simply wanted to pull you back down to terra firma, if possible. Some people NEED to vent, so, just saying, "possible", meaning it's up to your choice on accepting ANYthing I say. I would never say anything hurtful .

I wasn't talking down to you or anyone, either. I meant that if you have read MJ's book and listened to him talk enough to respect and feel affection for him, it should be easy to find some trust for him to be good-intentioned with this Hoaxed death.

"All for Love" means to me, that he NEEDED to do this, in order to protect someone or FIX something gone horribly amok, and in the interim, bless and occupy US. I've thought all kinds of things, as we know MJ's middle name has been "JOKER" for decades, now, but I no longer think it is a game for the sake of gaming. I think there is something Important being accomplished in the context of a game, so that his connection to all of those who loved him doesn't die off in his necessary absence. Who knows? He'll tell us someday. All he talked about was LOVE. I don't think ANY of this was meant to cause ONE tear---for fans.

And I wasn't talking down to anyone when reminding/ explaining "Show Business" and the NONreality there.  We ALL forget that it is ALL PRETEND and ACTING and ILLUSION, script, smoke, mirrors, make up, special effects, costume and FICTION, especially since we've HAD HIM for ALL our lives and he's a household word.

Theses lines blurred for me many, many times, wishing I knew him personally, as I would hear something thoughtprovoking in his song or some creative innovation, or a cause he had championed, making me proud.

Those things were REAL---but the Personality who had become the household word was just a figment of what MY mind had filtered from all the public information and video on him. He's REALLY something, this character I am attached to. I've filled in all the blanks, because...I don't REALLY know HIM. I've HAD to pinch myself.

It's a very fine line stepped over, when the most famous man in the world's news, is discussed at the dinner table as if he's become FAMILY. He seemed so sweet, so funny, so nice, so dedicated to God in his personal life----we WANT him to be. We all want that personal contact with someone so wonderful. Someone with no HINT of ever hurting us. In fact, we are all on a first name basis with him. EVERYone I know, knows who I mean when I say, "Michael..."

But, BACK TO EARTH, he puts on a GREAT show.

His whole life BECAME the show, because his public NEVER gave him down time!!

It IS a Show. Sadly.  MJ SAID he wanted to bring JOY to people and give them some time to escape...And little did he realize the MONSTER he created would see to it he could NEVER have that escape himself. Pretend is one of the most fun things God ever invented. It's a great release for the stress of life. If you don't watch out, you'll want to jump in and stay there. I do. But we are here for more than PLAYtime. Someone has to run the world and the business of life.

And the fact that he's still doing it, entertaining, while he's "dead" [!!], demonstrates that it IS for Love. After all, he COULD have just disappeared and done whatever he needed to do, WITHOUT including US in this "adventure". And look what else he gave us: when he said, "Come Together Over Me", wiggling his little hips to grab our attention :wink: , even though he didn't write it, he DID it. He facilitated our Coming Together, over this mysterious "Me", probably so that we would get to know that he's not the only wonderful person on earth, and maybe we need to focus a little more on each other---ALL for LOVE. You know, things are probably going to get really hairy, on earth, and we will need each other more than we probably know yet. I don't know about you, but I've never spoken to more than a few people from other parts of the world, in all the years I've been alive,  before I came to the internet to talk about HIM. I don't know. Just, again, embellishing the MJ I made up in MY head and heart, from snippets of what I've seen. But it sounds like him, doesn't it?

Oh, and I didn't mean to be proud of our 'failing to detect' that it was all an illusion. I MEANT to be proud of HIM, that he was SO darn accomplished at it, that we were caught up in it, so deeply!!  He da Man!!! :lol:

I could NEVER be mad at him. I don't know how.

[Its her]

Souza, Thank you.

[Kuki]

"All for Love" means to me, that he NEEDED to do this, in order to protect someone or FIX something gone horribly amok, and in the interim, bless and occupy US. I've thought all kinds of things, as we know MJ's middle name has been "JOKER" for decades, now, but I no longer think it is a game for the sake of gaming. I think there is something Important being accomplished in the context of a game, so that his connection to all of those who loved him doesn't die off in his necessary absence. Who knows? He'll tell us someday. All he talked about was LOVE. I don't think ANY of this was meant to cause ONE tear---for fans.

And I wasn't talking down to anyone when reminding/ explaining "Show Business" and the NONreality there.  We ALL forget that it is ALL PRETEND and ACTING and ILLUSION, script, smoke, mirrors, make up, special effects, costume and FICTION, especially since we've HAD HIM for ALL our lives and he's a household word.

Theses lines blurred for me many, many times, wishing I knew him personally, as I would hear something thoughtprovoking in his song or some creative innovation, or a cause he had championed, making me proud.

Those things were REAL---but the Personality who had become the household word was just a figment of what MY mind had filtered from all the public information and video on him. He's REALLY something, this character I am attached to. I've filled in all the blanks, because...I don't REALLY know HIM. I've HAD to pinch myself.

It's a very fine line stepped over, when the most famous man in the world's news, is discussed at the dinner table as if he's become FAMILY. He seemed so sweet, so funny, so nice, so dedicated to God in his personal life----we WANT him to be. We all want that personal contact with someone so wonderful. Someone with no HINT of ever hurting us. In fact, we are all on a first name basis with him. EVERYone I know, knows who I mean when I say, "Michael..."

But, BACK TO EARTH, he puts on a GREAT show.

His whole life BECAME the show, because his public NEVER gave him down time!!

It IS a Show. Sadly.  MJ SAID he wanted to bring JOY to people and give them some time to escape...And little did he realize the MONSTER he created would see to it he could NEVER have that escape himself. Pretend is one of the most fun things God ever invented. It's a great release for the stress of life. If you don't watch out, you'll want to jump in and stay there. I do. But we are here for more than PLAYtime. Someone has to run the world and the business of life.

And the fact that he's still doing it, entertaining, while he's "dead" [!!], demonstrates that it IS for Love. After all, he COULD have just disappeared and done whatever he needed to do, WITHOUT including US in this "adventure". And look what else he gave us: when he said, "Come Together Over Me", wiggling his little hips to grab our attention :wink: , even though he didn't write it, he DID it. He facilitated our Coming Together, over this mysterious "Me", probably so that we would get to know that he's not the only wonderful person on earth, and maybe we need to focus a little more on each other---ALL for LOVE. You know, things are probably going to get really hairy, on earth, and we will need each other more than we probably know yet. I don't know about you, but I've never spoken to more than a few people from other parts of the world, in all the years I've been alive,  before I came to the internet to talk about HIM. I don't know. Just, again, embellishing the MJ I made up in MY head and heart, from snippets of what I've seen. But it sounds like him, doesn't it?

Oh, and I didn't mean to be proud of our 'failing to detect' that it was all an illusion. I MEANT to be proud of HIM, that he was SO darn accomplished at it, that we were caught up in it, so deeply!!  He da Man!!! :lol:

I could NEVER be mad at him. I don't know how.

Wow so well said! You did a great job, you really hit me (in a positive way!) by this!

[PinkTopaz]

PinkTopaz,

I would NEVER ever "rub it in", even if I had made a judgment that you were wrong. I wasn't doing that, either. I felt your frustration and flying off the handle, and simply wanted to pull you back down to terra firma, if possible. Some people NEED to vent, so, just saying, "possible", meaning it's up to your choice on accepting ANYthing I say. I would never say anything hurtful .

With the first part, I was mainly talking to Souza.

I wasn't talking down to you or anyone, either. I meant that if you have read MJ's book and listened to him talk enough to respect and feel affection for him, it should be easy to find some trust for him to be good-intentioned with this Hoaxed death.

"All for Love" means to me, that he NEEDED to do this, in order to protect someone or FIX something gone horribly amok, and in the interim, bless and occupy US. I've thought all kinds of things, as we know MJ's middle name has been "JOKER" for decades, now, but I no longer think it is a game for the sake of gaming. I think there is something Important being accomplished in the context of a game, so that his connection to all of those who loved him doesn't die off in his necessary absence. Who knows? He'll tell us someday. All he talked about was LOVE. I don't think ANY of this was meant to cause ONE tear---for fans.

With this part, I agree.. you spoke nicely.. it's weird that you said that particular line, because I've probably cried more in these past ten months (ESPECIALLY before I knew it was even a hoax) than I have in a few years.. LOL.

And I wasn't talking down to anyone when reminding/ explaining "Show Business" and the NONreality there.  We ALL forget that it is ALL PRETEND and ACTING and ILLUSION, script, smoke, mirrors, make up, special effects, costume and FICTION, especially since we've HAD HIM for ALL our lives and he's a household word.  

Theses lines blurred for me many, many times, wishing I knew him personally, as I would hear something thoughtprovoking in his song or some creative innovation, or a cause he had championed, making me proud.

So this is where it gets me, because I have wished the same thing in the same way as you many times! What are we SUPPOSED to think?

Those things were REAL---but the Personality who had become the household word was just a figment of what MY mind had filtered from all the public information and video on him. He's REALLY something, this character I am attached to. I've filled in all the blanks, because...I don't REALLY know HIM. I've HAD to pinch myself.

It's a very fine line stepped over, when the most famous man in the world's news, is discussed at the dinner table as if he's become FAMILY. He seemed so sweet, so funny, so nice, so dedicated to God in his personal life----we WANT him to be. We all want that personal contact with someone so wonderful. Someone with no HINT of ever hurting us. In fact, we are all on a first name basis with him. EVERYone I know, knows who I mean when I say, "Michael..."

But, BACK TO EARTH, he puts on a GREAT show.

His whole life BECAME the show, because his public NEVER gave him down time!!

 
Well then if that's true, he should have said "If you like you'll give me down time, insane public!!" I'd trade however much nessecary of this "great show" ANY day for him to have shown more of the real him and relaxed more over the years and not worried so much about giving us so much- we, not just him, would ALL be better off right now, even if some people didn't realize it at the time.

It IS a Show. Sadly.  MJ SAID he wanted to bring JOY to people and give them some time to escape...And little did he realize the MONSTER he created would see to it he could NEVER have that escape himself. Pretend is one of the most fun things God ever invented. It's a great release for the stress of life. If you don't watch out, you'll want to jump in and stay there. I do. But we are here for more than PLAYtime. Someone has to run the world and the business of life.

THAT'S what depresses me, not just the fact that it's a show at all, as that's well-known, as we've discussed, it's that all of this has happened already for so long, and I want to rewind and fix it so badly.. I'm the type of person that, if I see a flaw or a problem, a different, better way that something "could have been", I get so determined to fix it, and when I can't.. I want to give him a shake twenty years ago or so and say "MAKE SURE you take care of yourself, WHO CARES about PR, you DON'T Have to make your life into a show to be successful.. PLEASE. For you AND us, in the future.."

And the fact that he's still doing it, entertaining, while he's "dead" [!!], demonstrates that it IS for Love. After all, he COULD have just disappeared and done whatever he needed to do, WITHOUT including US in this "adventure". And look what else he gave us: when he said, "Come Together Over Me", wiggling his little hips to grab our attention :wink: , even though he didn't write it, he DID it. He facilitated our Coming Together, over this mysterious "Me", probably so that we would get to know that he's not the only wonderful person on earth, and maybe we need to focus a little more on each other---ALL for LOVE. You know, things are probably going to get really hairy, on earth, and we will need each other more than we probably know yet. I don't know about you, but I've never spoken to more than a few people from other parts of the world, in all the years I've been alive,  before I came to the internet to talk about HIM. I don't know. Just, again, embellishing the MJ I made up in MY head and heart, from snippets of what I've seen. But it sounds like him, doesn't it?

Oh, and I didn't mean to be proud of our 'failing to detect' that it was all an illusion. I MEANT to be proud of HIM, that he was SO darn accomplished at it, that we were caught up in it, so deeply!!  He da Man!!! :lol:


I could NEVER be mad at him. I don't know how.

Ah, that hips thing sounds so cute, LOL! I've always felt that about this hoax, I feel so incredibly honored to be a part of it.. I'm definitely not the same person I was at 12:20 on June 25th, 2009.. and I think that's for the better. But as great as this is, what I mean is, what gets me emotional, is that it even HAD to come to this, because I know it DIDN'T have to.. It's so frustrating. Yes, it does sound very much like him, but what you say after.. the fact that we were "so deeply caught it in" is NOT a good thing! If only all of those fans had realized that the music and the dance, the essence is real, but we don't know about ALL of his personality, like we know he's patient, but we don't know what little things make him angry, we know he's creative, but we don't know how he interprets people", you know what I mean? More power to you for the last line, but as for me, I'm sorry, I can't help but get irked with him for letting this go on for so long.. I'm mostly mad at the system, the corporations, the media, of COURSE, but he all these past years was capable of keeping us on the ground while at the same time giving himself some air. I get irked with him for caring about that IMAGE so much! I WISH we had NEVER gotten to this point, I wish he wasn't involved in a hoaxed death right now, but not an overdemanding public, either. I get depressed because a lot of this happened BEFORE i was born, I feel so FRUSTRATED that SO MUCH of this happened.. Why can't we go back and FIX it- less of Michael giving of himself and MORE OF him asserting to the fans when too much is too much= less illusion/PR= less disassociated-with-reality-because-they-think-they-HAVE-him-crazy-fans=Michael happier taking at least slightly better care of himself=MORE loyal, devoted yet aware of the need for Michael to be able to DO things (like go out in public without stupid crowds forming)= perhaps no need for a hoaxed death.. It's so depressing that it all "happened already", those are the two words that grind on me the most..But you have made me feel a little better..

[Grace]

Thank you all for your very personal and very beautiful posts with so much truth in them.
I strongly believe this is the way  MJ wanted us to meet and come together over him.
With a smile, with many hugs and with so many "do you remember" whispers and lots of laughter celebrating the joy and everlasting surprises he gave us.
Not judging the man, not fainting but standing tall being proud and grateful, silently lending a hand to a friend.

Nothing more to add - this thread should be made a sticky one somewhere in the enter zone to the board.

I am very happy about this evolution and positive spirit.
 

[hesouttamylife]

After reading all of these responses I am amazed at how selfish we have been unknowingly.  I guess we loved him to death.  He was trapped by us and there was no way out.  He was suffocated and there was no room to move or breathe.  He had to escape.  He was a victim of his own success and the only way to be free was to figuratively die.  I am just as guilty as the next person.  He consumed me. I am so sorry, Michael.  Now, I only want to massage your hands and feet.  I grown older and wiser.  Reminds me of the song, I've been to paradise but I've never been to me.  It's beautiful.

[youtube:hxv9pce5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tBd2Tn3seI[/youtube:hxv9pce5]