TIAI November 11 (11-11-11)

[ShyBleuEyes]

@ BeTheChange, great Fav. qoute you have.

@MsTrinity , great to see this vid you added,..   number 2 answered a question i had for a few weeks now. and i have searched for evidence but couldn't find it, after reading almost all the trial procedures and rules i could find. bangbang
I posted this ( i think its the previously threat), that there was someone called John( in the chatroom during the trial,.. who let us focus on the date changed by jury.... Here (the Netherlands) even criminals go free for so called mistakes in the past. But i couldn't find the answer ,...... if its same for the US.. Now i have the answer. Thank you. :

Im sorry for being offtopic,   /white flag/

[MaryK]

If I'm reading this right, the ambulance left Carolwood at 1:07 and arrived at UCLA at 1:13pm.

If that's not correct, someone please jump in.

With L.O.V.E. always.

@BeTheChange: thank you very much for this!

Now....my second question would be: are there any reports that indicate a different time than 1:13 pm for the arrival at UCLA?
Are their any discrepancies that can be found?
Like Randy and Frank reported that the ambulance was going to UCLA between 10.30 and 11.00 am, then again other time stated by Ben, other time stated by the starline tours lady, other time in the "official" statements.

[applehead250609]

Applehead, do you think that there is an "I" in TEAM?

LOL SOuza you put the wrong LETTER,lol  lolol/ !!!
It's not I, it's A, so to speak A-TEAM :roll: !!!!!

[MJonmind]

Oh Applehead, you do like to play hard! lolol/

How many people do we know for sure that intimately know EXACTLY what went down on that day, besides TS? Would Ortega, Alverez, LaToya, Jermaine, Ben? Were all insiders totally briefed on all the synchronizing of details? Why of all those people on the tourbus, why none are taking videos or pics to post online?  When you take a tour you make sure you have your camera, and all cameras/cell phones have video capability.

Bec

Either way, the pickup truck DOES pass the bus at some point and in some facet, and it IS depicted in the wild running camera footage poised and ready to pass as soon as the ambulance (and the paps) get out of the street.

I agree, and when the ambulance backs up, the bus people worry the pap will be run over, there is plenty of room. Some lenses make objects appear closer than they are.

MsTrinity333

Forgive me guys...I'm behind so this may have been covered.  But this van vid was made the same date as the second autopsy pic we all saw & Souza stretched with the upside down number looking like an 8.  I stated back then it was a clue and no one responded... start at time sig. 4:01

I think that we'll have to wait for 7b, c to delve into all the ways MJ being totally out of the picture and on the getaway plane, affects everything. It appears we have been deliberately mislead to believe he was there on scene and involved but now...   These were the things that initially got the hoax community in motion.  But who knows if MJ boarded the plane, circled a few times and landed again/went somewhere for a day or two, and came back to sit back with the kids to watch the chaos (with popcorn).

[paula-c]

TS_comments:
Dear Applehead,

First, you have given no explanation for WHY there would need to be more than one ambulance, nor WHY Michael would NEED to hire stalker fans to be in on the hoax.  There are so many "Justice for MJ" fans, why would he need to hire a few extra??

Just because someone is an actor, does not mean that they are in on the hoax--otherwise, almost all of Hollywood (plus all other actors around the world) are in on the hoax.

Furthermore, even IF some stalker fans were in on the hoax (for some strange reason), yet you would also need MANY other people in on the hoax, in order for the multiple ambulance theory to work.  And again, WHY??

Finally, if it is "clear like daylight" that there were 2 ambulances (unless you mean the fire truck and ambulance), then could you please share that evidence with others here--and not keep it to yourself?

Thanks.   :

Dear TS number 2 geek/ I will SPILL THE BEANS with one condition: IF after that, YOU will be kind enough to RESPOND me back at SOME QUESTIONs  !!!!! Thank you very much!!!

Recruited or used?

[Elsa]

Here are the YouTube videos that I was referring to (#4).

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

I watched the first video a long time ago and couldn't find it again- so thank you TS for posting the link.   I have always found that video very convincing.  The person who is at the back window and then runs around the side of the ambulance past both Chris (as Chris turns to run left) and Ben, is not seen in that position on the other video.  In the tour bus video Chris is still at the window as the ambulance turns to leave and the little guy in the black shirt who is the only other person who could have filmed at the side is nowhere in view.  Seems a lot to happen in a short space of time.

There is a moment in the tour bus video that exactly matches the published still photo - the one paula-c posted with the reflector circled.  Does everyone agree that the smaller guy in the black shirt moves in the right way around the back of the van to be the same one filming the Hollywood.TV video?  Watching it again - very carefully I think - has only confirmed what I believe so I am really interested to see TS debunk it. 

I'm glad that there are others in this thread whose eyes work like mine! Oh @applehead250609 thanks for posting that video! 

[paula-c]

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

[all4loveandbelieve]

Thank you TS for posting these videos, I have never seen them.. There was alot of oops in that video.. Illusions, very much so.. I will have to resee them again, now it is time for my bed time.. Goodnight everyone.

[PureLove]

That could have 2 ambulances that day in the house:

ladymedic wrote:
In reference to the ambulance thing, I can clear some stuff up, as well.

She is correct. We (ambulances) do not transport dead people. We DO transport working cardiac arrests (which is technically a dead person). So, if someone is past the point of attempting resuscitative efforts (significant rigor, lividity, injuries incompatible with life, etc.), we leave the patient on scene, do not transport, and call the coroner/ME. If we believe they are workable (not necessarily that they will survive), we transport.
Every system I've worked in, we try to call for another ambulance as well as the fire department. There's a lot that needs to happen when working a code, and the two people on the ambulance are not enough to take care of everything that goes on on their own. Another ambulance allows for more medics. A fire engine allows for more personnel. Each system is different, but it is rare that one single ambulance and no other apparatus goes to a working arrest.
The "not breathing at all" thing is an EMD code. It means literally that the person is not breathing at all. This is opposed to other EMD codes such as breathing uncertain, ineffective breathing, suffocation, obvious death, etc. Therefore, not breathing at all can certainly be a working arrest, and more than one ambulance is sent.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Thank you for reminding this post Paula. Ladymedic explained it well under what circumstances they send more than one ambulance. So, IF they didn't know about the hoax and IF they thought that there was someone who was not breathing, they would have sent two ambulances because more than 2 EMTs would be needed in a "not breathing at all" situation. IF there were more than one ambulances, this could mean that they didn't know about the hoax. Then this brings the question; what did Michael use to deceive the EMTs and maybe doctors at UCLA? A donated corpse who died that morning? It is possible. BUT IF there were more than two ambulances at the mansion, why didn't we see any picture of it or never saw it in the videos? Because one of the ambulances was there that day and the other day? But there's no other day (?) and that would create more suspicion on people UNLESS the ambulance was sent to another place to get the best shots from it on the other day. And on THE day, maybe two ambulances were sent to Carollwood but then this means the videos and pictures we see should have taken on the other day, so why no one in those videos say that the ambulance and they were not there on the 25th and the incident happened in another day?  As much as I try to reach to a conclusion, more questions occur in my mind.  /pull hair/

I still tend to believe this theory where there was only one ambulance at the mansion as the paramedics are in on the hoax, and only just one time the ambulance was there. I agree with TS that it is because of the angle that makes it look like there are different cars or different looking gate etc.  The ambulance could not be at the mansion more than one day as they could not create the same exact scene one more time with the same people and just like the one happened the OTHER DAY. All of those people have to be in on it which would make too many people. 

[voiceforthesilent]

If I'm reading this right, the ambulance left Carolwood at 1:07 and arrived at UCLA at 1:13pm.

If that's not correct, someone please jump in.

With L.O.V.E. always.

Great job - I can't believe how much has been written in this thread. It will take me a while to catch up. I just saw this report and was reminded in the trial that the paramedic said Michael was 1/2 on the bed and 1/2 on the floor. It's not consistent with the report.  I'm sorry if someone else brought this up but it takes me back to how could there have been a body in the room because there are so many conflicting stories.

[wishingstar]

If I'm reading this right, the ambulance left Carolwood at 1:07 and arrived at UCLA at 1:13pm.

If that's not correct, someone please jump in.

With L.O.V.E. always.

Great job - I can't believe how much has been written in this thread. It will take me a while to catch up. I just saw this report and was reminded in the trial that the paramedic said Michael was 1/2 on the bed and 1/2 on the floor. It's not consistent with the report.  I'm sorry if someone else brought this up but it takes me back to how could there have been a body in the room because there are so many conflicting stories.

I just watched again...the HollywoodTV video....in this report, surely they are referring to the time they loaded Michael into the ambulance or maybe the time they started down the stairs with him? From 1:07 -  1:13 is 6 minutes (7 if you use inclusive)..my point is, the backing out video alone is 1 minute/30 seconds to film.....I suppose UCLA could be a 5 minute run...maybe?  I know it's close, but that close?  When do the paramedic's write the time down..in progress, from memory, notes on the fly.....I think I read in the training manual that there is a system for who writes notes during the run.  If the time of 1307 (1:07pm) is the "begin transport" time....when exactly did that begin.....if it began at the beginning of the load, or the beginning of backing out.....the actual time to UCLA would have to be different.  Just backing out of the driveway took almost 2 extra minutes.  How could they leave at 1:07pm, spend 1:30 minutes backing out, and still arrive 6 minutes later.  Does anyone get what I am asking?  6 minutes of transport might work, if they actually were hurried out of the driveway.....
I gotta think on this more......

Here are a couple of links to the LAFD handbook talking about patient transport as well as this form. They are the links I had when I did the Hippa violations post:

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login


Blessings Always

[pepper]

Thanks bec...I usually don't feel the need but felt it this time.  And I'm with you on the MJ 'waltzing' around town that day lol...as ridiculous as it is, I can totally picture Mike doing it  :lol:

As for the vids TS posted...I know that a lot of what is said in the vids was debunked a long time ago.  I had mentioned one thing yesterday, though, that they also mention in the vid but I can't make sense of it.  Perhaps it, too, was debunked a long time ago and I just never saw the explanation for it.  Where is the Starline tour bus situated when the cam guy runs back to his car (in Ben's vid)?  Based on the 'fan' vid, the bus should be aligned with the firetruck but I don't see it in Ben's.

If anyone can clear that up for me, I'd greatly appreciate it.  It's sorta the final 'lingering' doubt I have as to everything having been filmed in real time on June 25th.  An explanation would help remove that doubt.

Thanks.

With L.O.V.E. always.

To answer your question, if you can stop this video at 1:37 or thereabouts, you will see the Star Line bus on the other side of the road from the firetruck.  It is not blocking the roadway but it is closer to the firetruck than the other cars parked in front of it on the side of the road.  You will see the red sports  car on the left of the screen, then some other vehicle behind that, then the white Star Lines bus.  The firetruck is on the right side of the screen.  (Notice that the firetruck has ORANGE CONES in front of it)  It is confusing because the way this video is sequenced, the ILLUSION is that there are other vehicles that drive past after the ambulance leaves, but before the Star Lines bus drives up.  It may have all been filmed in real time, but then edited in unreal time 

I think there were TWO different Star Line Tour buses.  The FIRST one, starting at 1:41, you see there are NO ORANGE CONES behind the fire truck.  And here comes the Star Line Tour bus, and at 2:01 the man in the blue uniform comes from the front of the firetruck toward the back, where the Star Line bus is, and this man removes an ORANGE CONE from the firetruck and then removes another ORANGE CONE as he talks to people on the Star Lines bus and walks over to put the orange cones on the ground behind the fire truck.  The video ends here. 

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxkjpnLhQJ4&feature=related[/youtube]
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

We assume that the Star Lines Tour bus in this next video is the same bus, but I don't think so.  Look at what is ALREADY behind the firetruck when this Tour bus drives up.  Three ORANGE CONES. 

And you see that this second Star Lines bus pulls over AFTER the ambulance and the SUV's leave the house, to let other cars pass by.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUxX0fEQU5Q&feature=related[/youtube]
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

(Here is a link to another version of this above same video, if you don't trust the TMZ-branded version
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login)


Looking at the first video again, at the very beginning, you see the ORANGE CONES.  Why would they be there at the beginning of the video, then disappear when the Star Lines Tour bus shows up?  So yes, it is obvious that for some reason they spliced the end of this sequence onto the beginning.  It is also obvious that there were TWO different tour buses.  But only one ambulance.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxkjpnLhQJ4&feature=related[/youtube]
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

[2good2btrue]

Apparently, earlier in the day, before the video was taken, there was an EMS 9 at the scene....and there's was no-one in the car, and the car was blocking the road....

This is a one way street...It comes from a blog post from Romania, fantastic may I add, but because of the new forum etc, this information has been forgotton and overlooked..

This is the site.....alot of great information here......You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Also, the serial numbers of the emergency vehicles, dont match the ones at Carolwood that day !!

[patman]

Thanks bec...I usually don't feel the need but felt it this time.  And I'm with you on the MJ 'waltzing' around town that day lol...as ridiculous as it is, I can totally picture Mike doing it  :lol:

As for the vids TS posted...I know that a lot of what is said in the vids was debunked a long time ago.  I had mentioned one thing yesterday, though, that they also mention in the vid but I can't make sense of it.  Perhaps it, too, was debunked a long time ago and I just never saw the explanation for it.  Where is the Starline tour bus situated when the cam guy runs back to his car (in Ben's vid)?  Based on the 'fan' vid, the bus should be aligned with the firetruck but I don't see it in Ben's.

If anyone can clear that up for me, I'd greatly appreciate it.  It's sorta the final 'lingering' doubt I have as to everything having been filmed in real time on June 25th.  An explanation would help remove that doubt.

Thanks.

With L.O.V.E. always.

To answer your question, if you can stop this video at 1:37 or thereabouts, you will see the Star Line bus on the other side of the road from the firetruck.  It is not blocking the roadway but it is closer to the firetruck than the other cars parked in front of it on the side of the road.  You will see the red sports  car on the left of the screen, then some other vehicle behind that, then the white Star Lines bus.  The firetruck is on the right side of the screen.  (Notice that the firetruck has ORANGE CONES in front of it)  It is confusing because the way this video is sequenced, the ILLUSION is that there are other vehicles that drive past after the ambulance leaves, but before the Star Lines bus drives up.  It may have all been filmed in real time, but then edited in unreal time 

I think there were TWO different Star Line Tour buses.  The FIRST one, starting at 1:41, you see there are NO ORANGE CONES behind the fire truck.  And here comes the Star Line Tour bus, and at 2:01 the man in the blue uniform comes from the front of the firetruck toward the back, where the Star Line bus is, and this man removes an ORANGE CONE from the firetruck and then removes another ORANGE CONE as he talks to people on the Star Lines bus and walks over to put the orange cones on the ground behind the fire truck.  The video ends here. 

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxkjpnLhQJ4&feature=related[/youtube]
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

We assume that the Star Lines Tour bus in this next video is the same bus, but I don't think so.  Look at what is ALREADY behind the firetruck when this Tour bus drives up.  Three ORANGE CONES. 

And you see that this second Star Lines bus pulls over AFTER the ambulance and the SUV's leave the house, to let other cars pass by.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUxX0fEQU5Q&feature=related[/youtube]
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

(Here is a link to another version of this above same video, if you don't trust the TMZ-branded version
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login)


Looking at the first video again, at the very beginning, you see the ORANGE CONES.  Why would they be there at the beginning of the video, then disappear when the Star Lines Tour bus shows up?  So yes, it is obvious that for some reason they spliced the end of this sequence onto the beginning.  It is also obvious that there were TWO different tour buses.  But only one ambulance.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxkjpnLhQJ4&feature=related[/youtube]
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

I see in one vid one cone (very hard to see)....and in the other vids, i see more cones....strange....

[Australian MJ BeLIEver]

To answer your question, if you can stop this video at 1:37 or thereabouts, you will see the Star Line bus on the other side of the road from the firetruck.  It is not blocking the roadway but it is closer to the firetruck than the other cars parked in front of it on the side of the road.  You will see the red sports  car on the left of the screen, then some other vehicle behind that, then the white Star Lines bus.  The firetruck is on the right side of the screen.  (Notice that the firetruck has ORANGE CONES in front of it)  It is confusing because the way this video is sequenced, the ILLUSION is that there are other vehicles that drive past after the ambulance leaves, but before the Star Lines bus drives up.  It may have all been filmed in real time, but then edited in unreal time 

@PEPPER, i love this post. so let me get this right, what you are saying is that when the ambulance left there were no other cars / traffic present. however either before or after the ambulance leaves there were other vehicles. the way the video is edited created illusion that the traffic was there when the ambulance CW.

so orange cones there to protect or prevent people traffic / cars coming thru whilst recording ambulance leaving. then later removed for when tour pass drives pass, again, creating the illusion