Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators
Latest News => Michael Jackson News => Topic started by: UTisNUM1 on April 20, 2010, 11:51:15 AM
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Okay so i've been coming here for a while and a lot of people do not necessarily agree with my thinking Michael has in fact, died. But for some reason people honestly think that just because something is filmed in HD, that it doesn't add up. Do people honestly believe that?
TV networks, Movies, News networks have all been using HD cameras to record their shows and programs. They have been since HD went mainstream 5 years ago. Not all of them started in HD when HD became available to the general public with HDTV's being sold but most, if not all networks use HD cameras to flim there material.
This is it - shot with RED Cameras which shoot video at a higher resolution than HD. The ones used to film This is it is the RED One which is the most used HD camera in Hollywood due to it's unsurpasses quality and it shoots videos at 4096 x 2304 as compared to "Full HD" at 1920 x 1080. Most networks use these cameras as well. Why was This is it filmed to begin with? Probably for the same reason there is footage of the Dangerous tour rehearsals and some History tour rehearsal footage - for Michael's personal library.
Everything pretty much is flimed in HD, it's the standard. So arguing that just because the Funeral, the Memorial, This is it and the This is it press conference were being filmed in HD is a moot point and doesn't hold any water at all when it comes to the "hoax".
TS was right, the website should make a "Coherent Theroy" section because when people who are just hearing about the possibility of a hoax come to this site and see arguments like "The funeral was filmed in HD, why would it be filmed in HD? That obviously means Michael is alive.", they turn away from believing since most the arguments are silly and are based on people's imagination and not fact.
That's my two cents, people can't argue the HD filming and they sure can't argue that HD isn't the standard but if it wasn't, things would still be getting shot in SD.
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K so why was the funeral filmed at all? Jackson family home movie collection?
Come on.
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That's my two cents, people can't argue the HD filming and they sure can't argue that HD isn't the standard but if it wasn't, things would still be getting shot in SD.
i agree with that, but i think what hoax believers have done is they pointed out a lot of weirdness about the funeral, not just that it's filmed in HD. this point is placed in the context of a seemingly fake setting (i.e. possibly green screened, studio lights etc), people not appearing sad (e.g. Mac Culkin & gf who were smiling/laughing), the row of garbage cans again, the liberian girl photo, etc. all these point towards a hoax, though they may not 100% prove it.
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i'm with jukebox here. there is no proof for a hoax, since none of us here knows that for a fact. we can only collect what we take as clues and make a connection somewhere pointing to a hoax. the thing is here: you can always find a connection somewhere, something relating to mike. hd-filming is not something that is exclusive to michael jackson, but other things are. so someone stating that hd-filming is a proof for this hoax would be wrong anyway. and who turns away on one statement is not really interested in finding out, i think. i read and researched over 6 months before i even joined this forum here, so it takes some preparatory work and using of common sense to become a believer in the first place.
on the other hand, there is no legally valid proof yet that mike has actually died. so we're still 50/50 here, with more clues pointing to a hoax than to a death or cover up. there are too many litlle details in this that nobody but mike himself could have thought up, imo. and i repeat: as long as there is no ucla-medical official stating under oath that michael joe jackson has actually died under his watch on june 25, 2009 and produces legally valid docs to prove it, i will continue to believe in a hoax.
:mrgreen:
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hi there tabloidburn..........i agree with your post...and dont forget my "OFFICIAL QUESTIONS LIST" i started.....that alone begs the question HOW CAN THIS WHOLE THING HAVE SO MANY UNANSWERED QUESTIONS????? it just does not sit right.....love from diane xxx
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LAX was closed when MJ died? TMZ's weird way of words. Jermaine's airport slip up. Harvey's slip up? The family seems to know who killed him yet they're keeping their mouth shut?? the family can't keep their stories straight. Look at the official question list for more. Look I'm half half on this whole beLIEver thing. But there are many unanswered questions. I want answers that's why I'm here
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Tabloidburn answered pretty well. I'll add that sometimes or even often the truth is not obvious, the truth is always hidden and you have to work hard to find it.
In this particular and unique situation we have managed to collect a huge number of inconsistencies, clues, hints that lead a lot of people to believe that Michael is still alive and that this death is a hoax. You cannot sum it up to the HD filming only. This is the sum of all the evidences which give sense to all this and if someone really want to know the truth he/she will have to study what is available here or on other forums or even on youtube.
The unanswered question list is a good thing and it's obvious that patience and time are required. Also the forum is dispatched in different sections and someone who comes here for the first time can choose the subject that interest him/her.
Plus on the index of this site there is a good summary of the main inconsistencies and clues http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/index.php (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/index.php) it will be a good thing to start with for the newcomers.
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You all have interesting comments, but if the hoax theory is to gain any credibility you really have to go out there and back up your statements using professional opinions. For example, how do you prove that Jermaine making a statement about his brother's death renders the statement legally or medically invalid? Amir Dan Rubin introduced him. So Amir Dan Rubin - Chief Operating Officer - knowingly allowed Jermaine to make a false statement in his hospital about MJ's death and allowed Jermaine to lie about the treatment his medical staff had given MJ? Is it not possible that Jermaine wanted to do this statement himself? If you really wanted to find out if what Jermaine did made MJ's death invalid you really have to go and ask some questions first. Who says it makes the death invalid? A huge jump in conclusion.
Has anyone actually gone out and proved in a professional manner why all the medical reports are false? Or is that conjecture. You know that TMZ Harvey is a lawyer......he actually said on camera that a small abbreviation or alteration such as Joe/Joseph is of no consequence and does not make something legally invalid. So has anyone checked this out with a lawyer(s) who would know?
What would you class as legally valid proof that MJ died, that has not been released already? If these documents are all false, they have to proven false properly - with backed up evidence first.
The rehearsal footage i think is actually a sinister twist. It is obvious MJ agreed to be filmed (whatever the reason was) but whether there were ulterior motives that mj was not aware of is still a possibility. You know that footage was probably better than any insurance policy they could get. Again, the motive is hard to prove beyond circumstantial evidence.
On the day of the memorial, the family employed a photographer to document everything. Even backstage with the coffin. To me, although unusual, i am not all that surprised by the burial being filmed. Maybe it is for the children when they are older and feel they need to look back on it. The same with the rest of the family. Perhaps it is there to help them through their ordeal. Who knows on that. Not everyone was laughing or smiling at the burial, but with such glittering company present there was a lot of hob-nobbing going on. There was a photographer at the burial also.
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Michael Jackson is ALIVE, trust me on that. Even if you take the entire This is It saga out of the mix there is an entire host of things that SCREAM I"M ALIVE! Do the math and nothing adds up. The only conclusion anyone could come to is that Micheal is still here and very much ALIVE.
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You all have interesting comments, but if the hoax theory is to gain any credibility you really have to go out there and back up your statements using professional opinions. For example, how do you prove that Jermaine making a statement about his brother's death renders the statement legally or medically invalid? Amir Dan Rubin introduced him. So Amir Dan Rubin - Chief Operating Officer - knowingly allowed Jermaine to make a false statement in his hospital about MJ's death and allowed Jermaine to lie about the treatment his medical staff had given MJ? Is it not possible that Jermaine wanted to do this statement himself? If you really wanted to find out if what Jermaine did made MJ's death invalid you really have to go and ask some questions first. Who says it makes the death invalid? A huge jump in conclusion.
Has anyone actually gone out and proved in a professional manner why all the medical reports are false? Or is that conjecture. You know that TMZ Harvey is a lawyer......he actually said on camera that a small abbreviation or alteration such as Joe/Joseph is of no consequence and does not make something legally invalid. So has anyone checked this out with a lawyer(s) who would know?
What would you class as legally valid proof that MJ died, that has not been released already? If these documents are all false, they have to proven false properly - with backed up evidence first.
The rehearsal footage i think is actually a sinister twist. It is obvious MJ agreed to be filmed (whatever the reason was) but whether there were ulterior motives that mj was not aware of is still a possibility. You know that footage was probably better than any insurance policy they could get. Again, the motive is hard to prove beyond circumstantial evidence.
On the day of the memorial, the family employed a photographer to document everything. Even backstage with the coffin. To me, although unusual, i am not all that surprised by the burial being filmed. Maybe it is for the children when they are older and feel they need to look back on it. The same with the rest of the family. Perhaps it is there to help them through their ordeal. Who knows on that. Not everyone was laughing or smiling at the burial, but with such glittering company present there was a lot of hob-nobbing going on. There was a photographer at the burial also.
If there were blatant and obvious evidences of Michael being alive there would be no hoax in the first place. I mean there is also a big part of intimate conviction here. I think that the only thing that will prove this to be a death hoax will be Michael's return. And as TS mentionned it so well maybe even if Michael came back some people would believe that it's not him....
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Michael Jackson is ALIVE, trust me on that
What does it mean?
About HD, I´ve stated many times that HD today is normal, more to MJ.
I´ve also explained what an EPK is.
Also that TII can perfectly be ENG, lacks of sophisticated (or regular) filmming statives and tools.
But that´s all we can state from that...
We cannot state anything more from that about the motives to record some other things.
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In reply to the original comment.
It's michael jackson, one of the most well known faces and person. Doo you think they would miss any moment of his life/death. HD wouldve been taken of tii mainly for DVD bonus features. HD of the funeral, HD of the memorial because ITS MICHAEL JACKSON!!!!
I believe he's alive but HD has nothing to do with it.
Xxx
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That's my two cents, people can't argue the HD filming and they sure can't argue that HD isn't the standard but if it wasn't, things would still be getting shot in SD.
i agree with that, but i think what hoax believers have done is they pointed out a lot of weirdness about the funeral, not just that it's filmed in HD. this point is placed in the context of a seemingly fake setting (i.e. possibly green screened, studio lights etc), people not appearing sad (e.g. Mac Culkin & gf who were smiling/laughing), the row of garbage cans again, the liberian girl photo, etc. all these point towards a hoax, though they may not 100% prove it.
Could somebody fill me in? What does the liberian girl photo have to do with it being a clue in the hoax? I don't get it. Is it because it is an older picture of him? And even if that's it, how would that emply hoax?
Not saying it's not a hoax, I believe more that it is, than that it's not, but just didn't get the implication with this photo. :?
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That's my two cents, people can't argue the HD filming and they sure can't argue that HD isn't the standard but if it wasn't, things would still be getting shot in SD.
i agree with that, but i think what hoax believers have done is they pointed out a lot of weirdness about the funeral, not just that it's filmed in HD. this point is placed in the context of a seemingly fake setting (i.e. possibly green screened, studio lights etc), people not appearing sad (e.g. Mac Culkin & gf who were smiling/laughing), the row of garbage cans again, the liberian girl photo, etc. all these point towards a hoax, though they may not 100% prove it.
Could somebody fill me in? What does the liberian girl photo have to do with it being a clue in the hoax? I don't get it. Is it because it is an older picture of him? And even if that's it, how would that emply hoax?
Not saying it's not a hoax, I believe more that it is, than that it's not, but just didn't get the implication with this photo. :?
Watch this video it will help you to understand, at the memorial service the photo of Michael appears behind the stage which is from this film. The photos at the Funeral "Liberian Girl" are from this video film and are promotional photographs for Liberian Girl which was from the "Bad" era. Do a google search on Liberian Girl you will find more photographs, also another video I found interesting was the "Come Together" by Michael when he was wearing similar clothing as Liberian Girl, its all about symbolism I believe.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2jy94 ... girl_music (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2jy94_michael-jackson-liberian-girl_music)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_Z8k5ChsX8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_Z8k5ChsX8) "Come together" Michael Jackson
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I'm with Bec on this one.....
Why film the funeral at all.....On one hand they are refraining from putting dates on anythign regarding MJ...be it the film itself, the DVD (all conversations for entertainment purposes :lol: ) or well, his so-called mausoleum as well...Is it so difficult to say "In memoriam" when a family member is really dead? I guess no.....at least not on a grave.
Plus I got a really fishy feeling about the funeral itself....The disappearing trees and roads....people cracking up...I mean that was fishier than the memorial.
So we're not saying that HD filming is an inconsistency...only the intentions with which things are filmed are suspicious....Thats all what it is?
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That's my two cents, people can't argue the HD filming and they sure can't argue that HD isn't the standard but if it wasn't, things would still be getting shot in SD.
i agree with that, but i think what hoax believers have done is they pointed out a lot of weirdness about the funeral, not just that it's filmed in HD. this point is placed in the context of a seemingly fake setting (i.e. possibly green screened, studio lights etc), people not appearing sad (e.g. Mac Culkin & gf who were smiling/laughing), the row of garbage cans again, the liberian girl photo, etc. all these point towards a hoax, though they may not 100% prove it.
Could somebody fill me in? What does the liberian girl photo have to do with it being a clue in the hoax? I don't get it. Is it because it is an older picture of him? And even if that's it, how would that emply hoax?
Not saying it's not a hoax, I believe more that it is, than that it's not, but just didn't get the implication with this photo. :?
in the Liberian Girl video, Michael appears near the end where he's shown to be directing the entire video all along, behind the cameras.
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LAX was closed when MJ died? TMZ's weird way of words. Jermaine's airport slip up. Harvey's slip up? The family seems to know who killed him yet they're keeping their mouth shut?? the family can't keep their stories straight. Look at the official question list for more. Look I'm half half on this whole beLIEver thing. But there are many unanswered questions. I want answers that's why I'm here
LAX didn't closed 6-25. The flights were delayed because of weather. That's not uncommon at an airport. Seems to that if it were a hoax that Michael would have chosen a private charter with their own strip not an international airport.
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Flights Affected By Delay at LAX Date: June 25, 2009
Airport: (LAX) Los Angeles International Airport
Address: One World Way
City: Los Angeles CA, US
LAX experienced departure delays of 16 to 30 minutes due to Weather:Low Ceilings from 2009-06-25 07:56 to 2009-06-25 09:39. There were 84 flights that were affected by this delay
http://www.flightstats.com/go/Airport/f ... ortField=1 (http://www.flightstats.com/go/Airport/flightsAffectedByDelay.do?queryType=airportdelays&airportHistoryId=6256761&atcsccAirportQueryDate=2009-06-25&atcsccId=69498&atcsccAirportCode=LAX&atcsccAirportDelayType=D&sortField=1)
Jermaine's so called slip-up means nothing. He erred. Everyone makes goofs when they talk. Remember that Jermaine is on the road and in the air all the time, globe trotting.
Half the time he's probably thinking about making his next flight on time.
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K so why was the funeral filmed at all? Jackson family home movie collection?
Come on.
Many people, not famous, and famous, film funerals of family members.
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LAX was closed when MJ died? TMZ's weird way of words. Jermaine's airport slip up. Harvey's slip up? The family seems to know who killed him yet they're keeping their mouth shut?? the family can't keep their stories straight. Look at the official question list for more. Look I'm half half on this whole beLIEver thing. But there are many unanswered questions. I want answers that's why I'm here
LAX didn't closed 6-25. The flights were delayed because of weather. That's not uncommon at an airport. Seems to that if it were a hoax that Michael would have chosen a private charter with their own strip not an international airport.
And wasn't that the norm for Michael anyway? In my recollection, he regularly flew on private charters...not public/Int'l airports.
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Wow Java. Thanks for clearing that up. So much misinformation....
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Okay so i've been coming here for a while and a lot of people do not necessarily agree with my thinking Michael has in fact, died. But for some reason people honestly think that just because something is filmed in HD, that it doesn't add up. Do people honestly believe that?
TV networks, Movies, News networks have all been using HD cameras to record their shows and programs. They have been since HD went mainstream 5 years ago. Not all of them started in HD when HD became available to the general public with HDTV's being sold but most, if not all networks use HD cameras to flim there material.
This is it - shot with RED Cameras which shoot video at a higher resolution than HD. The ones used to film This is it is the RED One which is the most used HD camera in Hollywood due to it's unsurpasses quality and it shoots videos at 4096 x 2304 as compared to "Full HD" at 1920 x 1080. Most networks use these cameras as well. Why was This is it filmed to begin with? Probably for the same reason there is footage of the Dangerous tour rehearsals and some History tour rehearsal footage - for Michael's personal library.
Everything pretty much is flimed in HD, it's the standard. So arguing that just because the Funeral, the Memorial, This is it and the This is it press conference were being filmed in HD is a moot point and doesn't hold any water at all when it comes to the "hoax".
TS was right, the website should make a "Coherent Theroy" section because when people who are just hearing about the possibility of a hoax come to this site and see arguments like "The funeral was filmed in HD, why would it be filmed in HD? That obviously means Michael is alive.", they turn away from believing since most the arguments are silly and are based on people's imagination and not fact.
That's my two cents, people can't argue the HD filming and they sure can't argue that HD isn't the standard but if it wasn't, things would still be getting shot in SD.
Okay, then please explain to me why most of TII is shot with HD cameras, yet quite some footage of "suit guy" is of a much poorer quality. That footage is also not 'screen filling'. Then there is footage of "suit guy" in HD, following the low quality footage. Why would they edit in low quality footage, if HD is the standard? Who taped the low quality footage and when? To me the low quality footage appears older, and is of the Real Deal, while the HD footage is of the doubles.
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You all have interesting comments, but if the hoax theory is to gain any credibility you really have to go out there and back up your statements using professional opinions. For example, how do you prove that Jermaine making a statement about his brother's death renders the statement legally or medically invalid? Amir Dan Rubin introduced him. So Amir Dan Rubin - Chief Operating Officer - knowingly allowed Jermaine to make a false statement in his hospital about MJ's death and allowed Jermaine to lie about the treatment his medical staff had given MJ? Is it not possible that Jermaine wanted to do this statement himself? If you really wanted to find out if what Jermaine did made MJ's death invalid you really have to go and ask some questions first. Who says it makes the death invalid? A huge jump in conclusion.
Has anyone actually gone out and proved in a professional manner why all the medical reports are false? Or is that conjecture. You know that TMZ Harvey is a lawyer......he actually said on camera that a small abbreviation or alteration such as Joe/Joseph is of no consequence and does not make something legally invalid. So has anyone checked this out with a lawyer(s) who would know?
What would you class as legally valid proof that MJ died, that has not been released already? If these documents are all false, they have to proven false properly - with backed up evidence first.
The rehearsal footage i think is actually a sinister twist. It is obvious MJ agreed to be filmed (whatever the reason was) but whether there were ulterior motives that mj was not aware of is still a possibility. You know that footage was probably better than any insurance policy they could get. Again, the motive is hard to prove beyond circumstantial evidence.
On the day of the memorial, the family employed a photographer to document everything. Even backstage with the coffin. To me, although unusual, i am not all that surprised by the burial being filmed. Maybe it is for the children when they are older and feel they need to look back on it. The same with the rest of the family. Perhaps it is there to help them through their ordeal. Who knows on that. Not everyone was laughing or smiling at the burial, but with such glittering company present there was a lot of hob-nobbing going on. There was a photographer at the burial also.
i was mainly trying to point out that up to this point there was no statement by any medical personell of that day.
when jermaine made the statement, it was announced as just that: 'a statement' by the hospital official. in no way did they ever support that satement or confirm it on THEIR behalf. no doctor from there signed the death certificate, latoya did! that is NOT legally valid to me. only a doctor can sign such a document.
when people called the hospital to find out about june 25, they were always referred to the 'media department', which displays jermaine's statement, nothing else. on that part of the ucla-webpage, there is no medical info whatsoever. you can announce something like the next picnic on there. they just gave that space, but it's not medically relevant.
all the docs published so far have inconsistencies, that do not represent how such documents should be. harvey saying that about different name versions also states, that using a different name version is only legally valid, when you have the person there to sign. a dead person cannot sign, so there has to be ONE legal name through all documents. we have 3 versions here, none of them being michael 'joe' jackson, whis his true legal name, i believe.
i think most of what we've seen as 'official' will be proven false (or legally invalid) during the trial. that may be one reason why this first court date was so short. i'm thinking the judge is starting to smell something fishy, too. :mrgreen:
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Okay so i've been coming here for a while and a lot of people do not necessarily agree with my thinking Michael has in fact, died. But for some reason people honestly think that just because something is filmed in HD, that it doesn't add up. Do people honestly believe that?
TV networks, Movies, News networks have all been using HD cameras to record their shows and programs. They have been since HD went mainstream 5 years ago. Not all of them started in HD when HD became available to the general public with HDTV's being sold but most, if not all networks use HD cameras to flim there material.
This is it - shot with RED Cameras which shoot video at a higher resolution than HD. The ones used to film This is it is the RED One which is the most used HD camera in Hollywood due to it's unsurpasses quality and it shoots videos at 4096 x 2304 as compared to "Full HD" at 1920 x 1080. Most networks use these cameras as well. Why was This is it filmed to begin with? Probably for the same reason there is footage of the Dangerous tour rehearsals and some History tour rehearsal footage - for Michael's personal library.
Everything pretty much is flimed in HD, it's the standard. So arguing that just because the Funeral, the Memorial, This is it and the This is it press conference were being filmed in HD is a moot point and doesn't hold any water at all when it comes to the "hoax".
TS was right, the website should make a "Coherent Theroy" section because when people who are just hearing about the possibility of a hoax come to this site and see arguments like "The funeral was filmed in HD, why would it be filmed in HD? That obviously means Michael is alive.", they turn away from believing since most the arguments are silly and are based on people's imagination and not fact.
That's my two cents, people can't argue the HD filming and they sure can't argue that HD isn't the standard but if it wasn't, things would still be getting shot in SD.
Okay, then please explain to me why most of TII is shot with HD cameras, yet quite some footage of "suit guy" is of a much poorer quality. That footage is also not 'screen filling'. Then there is footage of "suit guy" in HD, following the low quality footage. Why would they edit in low quality footage, if HD is the standard? Who taped the low quality footage and when? To me the low quality footage appears older, and is of the Real Deal, while the HD footage is of the doubles.
It's a simple answer, it could be 2 answers, it's just people try to over complicate things.
1) Maybe the man holding the HD camera was a little shakey and the footage didn't look right as opposed to the stationary cameras which are set up in the stadium anyway. If you notice, not all the scenes with "Doubles" are filmed in HD. Wanna' be Startin' something is the same person in it, Thriller, They don't really care about us, all switch angles and cameras but are of the same person.
2) Angles. Watch the Jackson five Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction and where Michael says "I don't like this angle" and puts his hand over the camera so they were forced to show him from the front. He was a show man, he knew where he wanted cameras and for different performances maybe he wanted different angles being shown over the screens in the stadium.
It could be a mixture of the 2 things i mentioned or maybe it was to add some pizzaz to the performance because watching a performance from a side angle, even if it is Michael Jackson, isn't entertaining. Can you imagine only watching Thriller from a side camera? No but you can imagine watching it from different angels that the cameras set up in the stadium caught.
So pretty much what it boils down to is showing all the angles that were captured during the rehearsals. Not to hide "doubles".
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In EPKs all kind of available footage can and is normaly used.
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No one should have been filming ANYTHING because the Jackson family was making it seem like it was a private funeral for just the family and friends, but everyone might as well showed up like they did for the memorial because it was televisied. Private does not = live recording of the funeral. :roll: That would defeat the whole purpose of why the Jacksons did a second memorial. But we were ALWAYS supposed to see the funeral AND the memorial. I respect people's right to question, but it simply does not make sense for them to be filming at the funeral. If the Jackson family said they wanted their privacy for their time of mourning it would it would be VERY disrespectful for the news crews to be there. :x I don't think they would have been there if they didn't get intial permission (which would have to been from a Jackson family member). Yes, Michael Jackson is very valued, but if he was really dead it would be disrespectful for ANY cameras to be there. If there were going to be ANY cameras anywhere near the funeral it would have been at the gates when the attendees came in and out of the cemetery so that the media could catch them coming and going. But like I said...we were meant to see all of the attendees at the funeral. Plus...the whole thing seems very staged. I know a little about theatre and blocking, I also major in broadcast media, and position is EVERYTHING.
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Regarding the liberian girl stuff, i can appreciate what people have read into that. However it should be noted also that it was said that MJ really liked the way he looked in the BAD era. Those pics are from that era, that might explain it.