Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators
Hoax Investigation => Hoax Videos => Topic started by: sprint911 on October 18, 2010, 09:38:01 AM
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[youtube:29yl0758]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkcyn1JgdUw[/youtube:29yl0758] :shock:
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very very interesting.
thanks for posting.
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:shock: :shock: :shock: does that mean that there was no michael jackson preforming in this is it at all :shock: :shock: :shock: please what are your thoughts about it !!
all doubles except a few parts with the real deal :o :o :o straight jacket and mets please :oops:
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I dont believe it, that handsome gentleman in This Is It is definitely Michael all over... you can tell by the hands, posture and so on.. 8-)
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Sounds right up MJ's street - more illusion! But this guy is apparently listed as 'crew', not 'cast', so it doesn't necessarily mean we actually saw his body in the film, does it?
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That is very interesting! I didn't think the bit in TTI looked like MJ dancing to be honest..I mean we've all seen the way he dances to Billie Jean and that just didn't look the same at all.. :?
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Bernal was collaborating with Michael Jackson for Michael's "This Is It" residency at London's O2 Arena prior to Jackson's death.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Bernal
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1548146/
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OK in the TTI credits it descibles David 'Elsewhere' Bernal as:
movement coach: Michael Jackson (as David Bernal)
Can someone explain what this means??
Does it mean his role was Michael Jackson?? Or does it mean he was his movement coach?? The bit that confuese me is "as David Bernal" (They already said his name once )
Sorry if I have this wrong but I don't get their wording..
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1477715/fullcredits (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1477715/fullcredits)
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TII--->doubles---> David Bernal one of them---> he dances and MJ´s face,hands feet are overset by a computer animation.
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This is bewildering everything....The question why it thus was done.... :? Big finding, thanks!!!!
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I never said it before - but now O M G !
If his role was Michael Jackson I understand why I always felt there`s something "different" - or even wrong - with his moves in TII ...
Woud explain a lot (my head starts spinning ...).
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:lol: come on, this forum has the blogs about doubles :lol: is nothing new ;) but the technic used was about to be discovered.
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:lol: come on, this forum has the blogs about doubles :lol: is nothing new ;) but the technic used was about to be discovered.
I don't find this the same as a double, I had never heard of this technique before.
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...but...this guy is also in the movie credits? I mean..at the end of the movie? I think we should check there..Internet not always has right informations..BUT..if we find that name also in the dvd credits,I think I can cry OMG!!!!!
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:lol: come on, this forum has the blogs about doubles :lol: is nothing new ;) but the technic used was about to be discovered.
I don't find this the same as a double, I had never heard of this technique before.
Something was odd with some "michaels" and those we have been calling doubles.
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I dont believe it, that handsome gentleman in This Is It is definitely Michael all over... you can tell by the hands, posture and so on.. 8-)
Posture? :lol: Which one? We have the big, broad shouldered MJ in The Way You Make Me Feel and a tiny small MJ in Human Nature, so which posture are you referring to?
This makes a lot of sense and it would be brilliant so it's probably true. Didn't Joe say that there were mostly BODY doubles in TII? :lol:
But still, I see wrong faces as well, like here:
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/images/50_tii_doubles.jpg)
So I guess more techniques were used.
David Copperfield: Eat your heart out! :lol:
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:lol: come on, this forum has the blogs about doubles :lol: is nothing new ;) but the technic used was about to be discovered.
I don't find this the same as a double, I had never heard of this technique before.
Something was odd with some "michaels" and those we have been calling doubles.
I see what you're saying, I totally agree. Something is not right.
I just didn't get when you said, 'is nothing new', because this is a new theory to me. (Superimposing Michaels face onto a dancing body).
Peace.
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Puts a whole new spin on orange pants dude!!
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Does this remind anyone of "The green man" from the "We are the world" video? I can't really remember and I could be wrong, but wasn't it said that we could shop our image onto "the green man" and be a part of the video...Or something like that... Could this be the same technology? Could this be what Michael was trying to tell us?
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Unless he was a double did not know how to dance like Michael Jackson, so they had no choice to ask this dude to dance.. Michael Jackson is the best dancer in the world, how can he have a double dancing for him. I do not believe it.
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Whoaa...
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Does this remind anyone of "The green man" from the "We are the world" video? I can't really remember and I could be wrong, but wasn't it said that we could shop our image onto "the green man" and be a part of the video...Or something like that... Could this be the same technology? Could this be what Michael was trying to tell us?
Omg!!! Yes!
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This is BIG! It feels like a big puzzle piece just got handed to us and now we have to figure out where to put it! Something always felt off to me about the TII dancing segments but then it felt like there was something off about the whole movie, just like the memorial! I remember seeing the Gene Kelly ad a while back but never considered the same thing could have been done in TII. Don't know why, it is MJ after all! I doubt there's anything he couldn't do.
The green man in the We Are The World video now holds a whole new fascination for me too! Like Souza some of the stills from TII didn't look exactly like Michael to me but I recently watched Ghosts again and some of the angles used made me think twice as he looked in some scenes just like the pics I thought didn't look exactly like him! Confused? Just a tad! ;)
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Makes sense in this is it his dance moves were off except smooth criminal lol he killed that
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:lol: come on, this forum has the blogs about doubles :lol: is nothing new ;) but the technic used was about to be discovered.
You're right. This has been discussed up and down since last year, but to me this just proves that the bastards used a double, superimposing MJ's face on that dude, because there wasn't enough rehearsal footage to finish the documentary. To me, this isn't good news for the hoax...Sorry :( Please someone, tell me what other reason could it be that this "Elsewhere" dude is listed as a crew member! why would MJ hire an illusion dancer? :?
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Wow, this could possibly answer a lot of questions about TII. Unbelievable
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I dont believe it, that handsome gentleman in This Is It is definitely Michael all over... you can tell by the hands, posture and so on.. 8-)
Posture? :lol: Which one? We have the big, broad shouldered MJ in The Way You Make Me Feel and a tiny small MJ in Human Nature, so which posture are you referring to?
This makes a lot of sense and it would be brilliant so it's probably true. Didn't Joe say that there were mostly BODY doubles in TII? :lol:
But still, I see wrong faces as well, like here:
(http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/images/50_tii_doubles.jpg)
So I guess more techniques were used.
OMG...these two pics side by side freak me out....everything about them is differents the hair...ears everything...are these suppose to be the same day....same outfit obviously :o
David Copperfield: Eat your heart out! :lol:
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So maybe I was correct about Michael's face being superimposed on Janet's body when she was on American Idol??
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This explains to me what I have been trying to figure out for soooo long...not just the dance moves but how he looked like his younger self....back in the 90's with the hair and everything....could they super impose his old footage on this body too??!! I don't know if anybody else felt like some of the footage was the old Michael (young Michael if you will)
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:lol: come on, this forum has the blogs about doubles :lol: is nothing new ;) but the technic used was about to be discovered.
I don't find this the same as a double, I had never heard of this technique before.
Something was odd with some "michaels" and those we have been calling doubles.
I see what you're saying, I totally agree. Something is not right.
I just didn't get when you said, 'is nothing new', because this is a new theory to me. (Superimposing Michaels face onto a dancing body).
Peace.
If this technique was indeed used, which is highly plausible, then for sure the faces of doubles were used also. There are just too many different faces in that movie. Bye bye "angles/lighting" arguments, welcome "manipulation/mind fuck" arguments. Michael Jackson's This Is It -> also known as Michael Jackson's Big Optical Illusion.
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:lol: come on, this forum has the blogs about doubles :lol: is nothing new ;) but the technic used was about to be discovered.
I don't find this the same as a double, I had never heard of this technique before.
Something was odd with some "michaels" and those we have been calling doubles.
I see what you're saying, I totally agree. Something is not right.
I just didn't get when you said, 'is nothing new', because this is a new theory to me. (Superimposing Michaels face onto a dancing body).
Peace.
If this technique was indeed used, which is highly plausible, then for sure the faces of doubles were used also. There are just too many different faces in that movie. Bye bye "angles/lighting" arguments, welcome "manipulation/mind fuck" arguments. Michael Jackson's This Is It -> also known as Michael Jackson's Big Optical Illusion.
I'm thinking a combination of this technique and doubles were used.
Like you say, some of the faces are too different to even resemble the same person, let alone Michael. That bit when they are filming the drill...That in my opinion cannot be Michael..
But I think it's possible that doubles faces and were used and superimposed onto that dancers body...I mean to the person who said the doubles would have to be able to dance was right! There are a lot of impersonators, but surely not all of them know how to dance. And I always thought the dancing was off anyway. The dancing is different to any other footage of Michael dancing. Some people put this down to age but I didn't buy it. Michael could do the moonwalk in his sleep...
Now my question is...was Michael in this film at all? If so, in what parts do you think??
Maybe Michael was soley 'the director' ??
Hmm makes you wonder...
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:lol: come on, this forum has the blogs about doubles :lol: is nothing new ;) but the technic used was about to be discovered.
You're right. This has been discussed up and down since last year, but to me this just proves that the bastards used a double, superimposing MJ's face on that dude, because there wasn't enough rehearsal footage to finish the documentary. To me, this isn't good news for the hoax...Sorry :( Please someone, tell me what other reason could it be that this "Elsewhere" dude is listed as a crew member! why would MJ hire an illusion dancer? :?
I agree with Mo, that it's all about illusion. I feel positive that much in the movie is MJ dancing with his whole body intact, but then there's all the mixture of this hired dancer with MJ's head, or MJ dancing with a double's face on him. I believe this has all been planned from the start, so I wouldn't be discouraged or worry that it means Kenny didn't have enough rehearsal footage and so fit in some doubles. This is the ultimate in puzzles, in sluthing games. We have wrapped our brains around this movie and how he did it, and we are drawn like a magnet. What possible magician could ever top this mind-blowing performance. Like Liz Taylor said, this movie will come to be seen as the best movie ever produced (something like that). Once you know it's not just what you see but illusion, you will want to watch it over and over and over. That's a masterpiece.
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At least now we know what the greenman was for :roll:
But the Q remains: WHY?
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Oh God this is BRILLIANT.. Sheer genius
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Remember the Barnum Circus passing by Staples Center - one of the attractions was to make a 4 ton elephant disappear. Everything is possible (yet not always feasible without corresponding and supporting means).
I am coming back to "The Tiger Comparison" of a member on MJHD:
Why does a tiger have stripes?
To make it invisible in the gentle waves of trees, branches, bushes and leaves in the forest, creating an interwoven pattern of light and shadows.
What does it take for a perfect hide-away?
1) stripes
(recognizable make-up, outfit, gestures, ways of moving around in the world - in short: creation of an identifiable public appearance - which is a brand.)
2) a forest
(creation of trees, bushes and a smooth wind circulation, interwoven patterns of light and shadows - from time to time a dust blowing storm - and in case somebody would be getting too close: some look-alike tigers. Or some techniques as described in the video above or those of Pendulum Studios most likely used for Doc Murray's video:
(see http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=9690&p=173373&hilit=pendulum#p171413 and http://www.studiopendulum.com/alterego/clients_and_projects.html)
Did we notice a lot of "right or left or straight or back" indications having been and still being thrown upon us, blurry pictures, articles that finally said nothing, everybody "knew" something but then nothing but speculation, many "informers" and disinformers, freeriders, gamblers, when someone said "it's red" it was "white" or "blue" or nothing at all - all fog, dust, confusion and uncertainty? Did we feel like having been put in a maze? Were we confused not one time but many times?
What will happen to the tiger?
We cannot, we simply cannot find out behind which tree the tiger is hiding, we cannot cut through all the woods, we cannot get on the track just on our own. It is impossible.
The tiger will have to leave some traces to get us where he wants us to be.
The tiger is always one jump ahead. He's watching us.
Same does apply to entertainment industry as such. All of the said above.
We are being lured into foggy illusions, previously by artificially "set up" stories of the unreachable "upper class" (era of movies with Dame Elizabeth, Rock Hudson, Frank Sinatra, Doris Day, Marilyn Monroe etc.), by stories of the so-called "underground revolution" (era of James Dean, Hippies, Rock, Metal), "family soaps" (clan / dynasty in their "re-told", produced, set up "real" life or "reality" shows - they show the "reality" they want us to see lol), and now "everybody is a star"-soaps (you and I do have enough talent to be made a star).
With 3D and the glimpse of state-of-the-art technique we have seen so far, everything can be fabricated, we don't even need human beings anymore to create (for the time being on screen only) almost perfect replacements that look so much "alike" that it is hard to notice any difference to living human beings.
And what is that and has ever been? A big, big illusion. "make.believe"
Will we see the tiger again?
Only when he wants to or needs to take care of his off-spring.
Is there a way out of the pink bubble of this artificial second, third or fourth life being imposed on us?
Only if we insist to shake hands with the person we are talking to one on one.
Only if we insist to NOT pay them money for the show.
Increasing confusion is a means to destabilize.
Get yourself a good seat.
L.O.V.E.
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Didnt the dancers,and others,have to sign a contract,so they could not speak about anything in the making TII,if this vidio is right, alot of people must know about what was going on who were there,just thinking out loud really, :? this puts a whole new spin on things,i really really dont know what to make of this. :shock: :? :shock: jermaine did say this is it,but this is not really it,somthing like that. :?
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http://www.myspace.com/davidelsewhere just found this,thought it might be of some use. :)
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The most disgraceful aspect of this technology is that the original artist is not required anymore to participate in the creation of his/her performances.
This is new in the evolution of entertainment:
those behind the curtains don't need the original artist on stage anymore.
Is it scary?
Yes.
The only reassuring factor is that those behind the curtains cannot exist without an audience, no matter what they put on stage, holograms or imposters or green men.
The discouraging factor is that the mass audience will buy no matter what they are being fed and doesn't care about whether it's real or fake.
We are watching the principle of soya cheese on industrialized pizzas being transferred into social interaction.
I want real cheese on my pizza.
Yeah, and it must be one coming out of my own oven with my own dough ... LOL :lol:
This will be the luxury element of the upcoming years:
living the original instead of the fake life. :lol:
We may mark the beginning of this "replacement" in the 2000's years:
Born August 2, 1979, Bernal is a dancer from Santa Ana, California. He became known through this video clip recorded at the talent show Kollaboration (Korean American Talent Show), in 2001. Showcasing Bernal's characteristic style, it became popular and circulated on the internet.
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1260/amazing_breakdance/
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We`re not saying that it wasn`t Michael in TII. But we should think that we can be easily fooled by the new visual technology.
On 1997 who would have thought it could be possible to see a skeleton dancing like Michael. And that trick was amazing.
min.1,53
[youtube:39aued0p]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhZxqy1ToWk[/youtube:39aued0p]
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WOW, just WOW :shock:
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@Grace: wonderful posts, much to think about, thank you :)
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Michael did say that he had always wanted to direct himself on stage ... maybe he did!?!
Amazing stuff if this is indeed true. Have you seen the latest Argos advert, Bing Crosby beatboxing? Similar technique to the Golf advert with Gene Kelly on David Elsewhere's body. Seems now you cannot tell what is real anymore!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRonRGEVyT8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRonRGEVyT8)
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Anyway, Michael worked closely with I.E. Effects.
http://www.itsartmag.com/features/thisisit/ (http://www.itsartmag.com/features/thisisit/)
"We felt it was our mission to honor his vision and finish the work, according to the instructions in his notes to us"
Huh? Michael gave them instructions in NOTES?? Where are the notes? What's written in those ?
I think Michael left instructions to I.E. Effects because he knew he would "die" ;)
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Perhaps, amongst other meanings, the "It" in This is It also refers to "Illusionary Technology" ?
This is It (Illusionsary Technology)
Just a thought.... :)
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I'm sorry but so is it possible there was not Michael at all in TII.
Great illusion, but I don't know if I like it...I think it's not fair.
btw TII' s credits says "movement coach" so maybe MJ learned new kind of movements and there's not Barnel dancing.
I wonder why Mike needed a coach about it... :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: CONFUSION!!
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BTW, in the same article, I found this veeeery interesting:
"The Thriller sequence also includes a visualization of Vincent Price’s famous narration, with the actor’s head floating inside a crystal ball. In the middle of his monologue, a CG crow flies in and sits on his shoulder.
There was an audio voiceover recording of Vincent Price doing the monologue, but there was no video associated with it,” explained Kaminar. “So we did a performance capture with an actor and mapped the movement of his face onto a CG Vincent Price.”
In my oppinion, everything is possible! :roll:
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BTW, in the same article, I found this veeeery interesting:
"The Thriller sequence also includes a visualization of Vincent Price’s famous narration, with the actor’s head floating inside a crystal ball. In the middle of his monologue, a CG crow flies in and sits on his shoulder.
There was an audio voiceover recording of Vincent Price doing the monologue, but there was no video associated with it,” explained Kaminar. “So we did a performance capture with an actor and mapped the movement of his face onto a CG Vincent Price.”
In my oppinion, everything is possible! :roll:
it is possible he did Price's part...I don't understand why the best dancer in the whole world needed a movement coach :shock: :shock: :shock:
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BTW, in the same article, I found this veeeery interesting:
"The Thriller sequence also includes a visualization of Vincent Price’s famous narration, with the actor’s head floating inside a crystal ball. In the middle of his monologue, a CG crow flies in and sits on his shoulder.
There was an audio voiceover recording of Vincent Price doing the monologue, but there was no video associated with it,” explained Kaminar. “So we did a performance capture with an actor and mapped the movement of his face onto a CG Vincent Price.”
In my oppinion, everything is possible! :roll:
it is possible he did Price's part...I don't understand why the best dancer in the whole world needed a movement coach :shock: :shock: :shock:
They used a movement coach for the doubles. I am sure Michael did not need one. The doubles may look like him but maybe they do not know how to dance like Michael. I remember when Joe Jackson said that they were all doubles in TII he was very upset. I am so confused in all of this. i guess Michael had his reasons to do so. Blessings
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I hope it was for the doubles, because if not this could mean the real Michael was not in TII at all. :cry:
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Anyway, Michael worked closely with I.E. Effects.
http://www.itsartmag.com/features/thisisit/ (http://www.itsartmag.com/features/thisisit/)
"We felt it was our mission to honor his vision and finish the work, according to the instructions in his notes to us"
Huh? Michael gave them instructions in NOTES?? Where are the notes? What's written in those ?
I think Michael left instructions to I.E. Effects because he knew he would "die" ;)
Impressive what they were preparing for the shows!! My Q then: why DIDN'T we seen ANY of those fabulous effects in the TII movie?? The movie is great but I wouldn't call it "talent never seen before", ehm.
I guess the answer is...we are GOING to see it when Mike comes back :lol: :lol:
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Do you know, I don't know what to think anymore! I just get to a point where I'm beginning to feel I've got it sorted when something like this comes along and I'm reminded, yet again, that my simple mind cannot begin to go where MJ's does! I don't have a clue how this is all going to pan out, but I have a feeling we haven't even touched the surface yet! I think he's going to surprise the lot of us! (No pressure, Mr Jackson, if you're looking in!)
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:lol: come on, this forum has the blogs about doubles :lol: is nothing new ;) but the technic used was about to be discovered.
You're right. This has been discussed up and down since last year, but to me this just proves that the bastards used a double, superimposing MJ's face on that dude, because there wasn't enough rehearsal footage to finish the documentary. To me, this isn't good news for the hoax...Sorry :( Please someone, tell me what other reason could it be that this "Elsewhere" dude is listed as a crew member! why would MJ hire an illusion dancer? :?
I'll say it again once more -- maybe, just maybe MJ had to leave before the film was finished so they would have no choice but to finish it with someone else.
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:lol: come on, this forum has the blogs about doubles :lol: is nothing new ;) but the technic used was about to be discovered.
You're right. This has been discussed up and down since last year, but to me this just proves that the bastards used a double, superimposing MJ's face on that dude, because there wasn't enough rehearsal footage to finish the documentary. To me, this isn't good news for the hoax...Sorry :( Please someone, tell me what other reason could it be that this "Elsewhere" dude is listed as a crew member! why would MJ hire an illusion dancer? :?
I'll say it again once more -- maybe, just maybe MJ had to leave before the film was finished so they would have no choice but to finish it with someone else.
I don't believe that. I think he is showing people how easy it is to manipulate the things we see on our television screen.
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What if.....
The "double" is really Michael with a 3d face over his own?
What if....
MJ used that technique to cover up his "new face" (yes, i know it sounds bad but..) under construction?
Klein said that he was re-building MJ´s face and nose to a previous stage of his life.
Many of us have seen MJ in dreams as a MJ Thriller/ bad era looks.
Even the pics of the funeral were the "liberian girl" pics
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR01YQ0CG6smvHjQu0HJVVrb2rAjJZjOFjZnHw4JhiIWCq7TyA&t=1&usg=__dgj82FObAQSQ-967CJrcpVFjT_E=)
Michael Jackson "reborn" after 20+ years?
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR5vbZMXGJAkKrxdOrvwbbs70chwbfdu0uuoCjT3O1paLtWtt8&t=1&usg=__AXCjKapFLeL7Ep1d6NuhbXXC0VU=)
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRMuUpWcQetD6kAtspW6ycKNMN_uNILWteONkzMRPcLa7moPHo&t=1&usg=__ZR5fAYizGAAbwFv_EZj9c8r4yHg=)
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What if.....
The "double" is really Michael with a 3d face over his own?
What if....
MJ used that technique to cover up his "new face" (yes, i know it sounds bad but..) under construction?
Klein said that he was re-building MJ´s face and nose to a previous stage of his life.
Many of us have seen MJ in dreams as a MJ Thriller/ bad era looks.
Even the pics of the funeral were the "liberian girl" pics
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR01YQ0CG6smvHjQu0HJVVrb2rAjJZjOFjZnHw4JhiIWCq7TyA&t=1&usg=__dgj82FObAQSQ-967CJrcpVFjT_E=)
Michael Jackson "reborn" after 20+ years?
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR5vbZMXGJAkKrxdOrvwbbs70chwbfdu0uuoCjT3O1paLtWtt8&t=1&usg=__AXCjKapFLeL7Ep1d6NuhbXXC0VU=)
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRMuUpWcQetD6kAtspW6ycKNMN_uNILWteONkzMRPcLa7moPHo&t=1&usg=__ZR5fAYizGAAbwFv_EZj9c8r4yHg=)
: im sorry but that's impossible, michael cant look the way he looked 20 years ago.
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: im sorry but that's impossible, michael cant look the way he looked 20 years ago.
First of all - Mike never changed that much. That's an illusion.
Second - We're talking about Michael Jackson here, so I would not put my money on "michael cant look the way he looked 20 years ago". His ability to do what he wants is unlimited, and since he never changed THAT much it wouldn't be such a tough task to accomplish.
By the way, I suggest that as from now on we refer to 'Michael Jackson's This Is It' as 'Michael Jackson's Great Big Mind Fuck' ;)
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: im sorry but that's impossible, michael cant look the way he looked 20 years ago.
First of all - Mike never changed that much. That's an illusion.
Second - We're talking about Michael Jackson here, so I would not put my money on "michael cant look the way he looked 20 years ago". His ability to do what he wants is unlimited, and since he never changed THAT much it wouldn't be such a tough task to accomplish.
By the way, I suggest that as from now on we refer to 'Michael Jackson's This Is It' as 'Michael Jackson's Great Big Mind Fuck' ;)
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Seems fitting!
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By the way, I suggest that as from now on we refer to 'Michael Jackson's This Is It' as 'Michael Jackson's Great Big Mind Fuck' ;)
:lol:
Thanks I needed that! And so true.
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: im sorry but that's impossible, michael cant look the way he looked 20 years ago.
First of all - Mike never changed that much. That's an illusion.
That would be my answer as well ;)
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WOW. The video is very interesting. That really blows my mind :shock: All is possible in this hoax.
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Even if MJ just asked for his advice, he needs to be credited. We don't know how big a role he played in the illusion, etc.
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Even if MJ just asked for his advice, he needs to be credited. We don't know how big a role he played in the illusion, etc.
No we don't, but we can connect the dots.
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: im sorry but that's impossible, michael cant look the way he looked 20 years ago.
First of all - Mike never changed that much. That's an illusion.
Second - We're talking about Michael Jackson here, so I would not put my money on "michael cant look the way he looked 20 years ago". His ability to do what he wants is unlimited, and since he never changed THAT much it wouldn't be such a tough task to accomplish.
By the way, I suggest that as from now on we refer to 'Michael Jackson's This Is It' as 'Michael Jackson's Great Big Mind Fuck' ;)
I think the second half of his career has been a great big mind fuck! :lol: I was also thinking about an interview that Cher did (I think LKL)when she stated that this guy told her that Michael's skin was going to be lighter and this was during Michael's teenage years. I always thought that was weird and I've been wondering how can that person know that and why would the person say that to Cher? Did this have something to do with the "powers that be" or was this always a part of the illusion? At this point, anything is possible.
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: im sorry but that's impossible, michael cant look the way he looked 20 years ago.
First of all - Mike never changed that much. That's an illusion.
Second - We're talking about Michael Jackson here, so I would not put my money on "michael cant look the way he looked 20 years ago". His ability to do what he wants is unlimited, and since he never changed THAT much it wouldn't be such a tough task to accomplish.
By the way, I suggest that as from now on we refer to 'Michael Jackson's This Is It' as 'Michael Jackson's Great Big Mind Fuck' ;)
I think the second half of his career has been a great big mind fuck! :lol: I was also thinking about an interview that Cher did (I think LKL)when she stated that this guy told her that Michael's skin was going to be lighter and this was during Michael's teenage years. I always thought that was weird and I've been wondering how can that person know that and why would the person say that to Cher? Did this have something to do with the "powers that be" or was this always a part of the illusion? At this point, anything is possible.
I agree, truly anything is possible...
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Micheal's skin is white! its not an illusion :roll:
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Vitiligo is a non curable skin condition. It does not mean that one can not get rid of white patches caused by vitiligo. There are many treatment procedures and medicines available in the market for the improvement of Vitiligo. These treatments have longer durations and their progress is slow so patients require motivation, encouragement, and empathy.
These treatments do not offer vitiligo cure. A question may arise in your mind that if these treatments do not offer vitiligo cure then what solution do these treatments provide. Instead of providing vitiligo cure these treatments either re-pigment or completely wash off the pigment from the skin to even out skin tone.
All difficulties in cure for vitiligo are due to the lack of information about vitiligo causes. However it is confirmed that melanocytes activity is the major factor for pigmentation in skin. This is the fact that all present cures for vitiligo focus on melanocytes, in terms of stimulating their production or enhancing their melanin production ability.
http://www.vitiligoguide.com/vitiligo-cure/ (http://www.vitiligoguide.com/vitiligo-cure/)
May be, there is a tiny chance ;)
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Amazing, there're big opportunities for the music and movie world with these virtual technics. Makes me think of the MJ's Virtual World game, which will be released soon.
See this link: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/music_blog/2010/07/the-future-of-live-performance-makes-its-debut-at-the-smell.html. It's about the 3D effects they used in TII. I find these developments interesting, by creating illusion everything is possible, but I think it's scary at the same time, because it'll be hard to see the difference between reality and illusion. To me reality = real art and virtuality = virtual art.
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I found the interview with Cher. Now, it could be that this man noticed vitiligo patches on Michael but how would he know that he was going to completely change how he looks? Also, I am not saying that he doesn't have vitiligo but like I said, you never know how far this "hoax" really goes and so at this point, nothing would really surprise me. I'm just exploring everything and picking out odd stories that don't add up. And sorry to the original poster for going sort of off topic.
[youtube:11lbez6o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xj38MJvb8Ls[/youtube:11lbez6o]
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OK in the TTI credits it descibles David 'Elsewhere' Bernal as:
movement coach: Michael Jackson (as David Bernal)
Can someone explain what this means??
Does it mean his role was Michael Jackson?? Or does it mean he was his movement coach?? The bit that confuese me is "as David Bernal" (They already said his name once )
Sorry if I have this wrong but I don't get their wording..
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1477715/fullcredits (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1477715/fullcredits)
That means, that David "Elsewhere" Bernal was credited as "David Bernal" on the DVD (without "Elsewhere").
I didn't have a look at the credits on DVD, but that's the way they write it on imdb.com, if someone appears in the credits with a different name as listed in their database.
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I would bet that Michael just used Elsewhere as a movement coach, so he could learn the technique of how it is done. I think that all was Michael dancing, albeit very off at times, cos he wanted people to doubt him. And I think there were 3d images of his face pasted on with weird changes to the ears, etc just to throw everyone off the hook.
From the start of his career, Michael seemed to do well with controversy. Just think about the number of people who have rewatched TII countless times just to spot the doubles or to prove that all the footage was not him. There have been numerous articles about it not being all him and Michael has controlled the media perfectly. First his own father said there would be doubles and then many of the known impersonators offered their stories about how they were approached to be standins. Reminds me of the Cherilyn propofol consult - it was made to just make people think in that direction.
I think there was purposely no moonwalk featured in the movie. If you look at many of the shots, Michael does moonwalk, but the camera never captures it as the angle just misses his feet. I would think it was deliberate. If there were doubles used, that is the first thing they would have captured. All the known impersonators moonwalk, and even Elsewhere knows how to moonwalk easily. So if they were trying to fool us into believing that TII was Michael instead of a double, that would be the first step, include footage of the standin moonwalking. Since that is missing, you have to believe that it is Michael playing with everyone's minds. And probably there will be a making of TII released so that we can see how easily we were fooled into believing that he was frail and could not survive the rehearsals.
I also think that in the TII footage we do see Elsewhere standing next to Michael. If I remember it was in a red light and Michael had on his black and gold shirt/coat. And so now I will have to watch TII again to find that second of footage - Michael you are a GENIUS.
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Do you know, I don't know what to think anymore! I just get to a point where I'm beginning to feel I've got it sorted when something like this comes along and I'm reminded, yet again, that my simple mind cannot begin to go where MJ's does! I don't have a clue how this is all going to pan out, but I have a feeling we haven't even touched the surface yet! I think he's going to surprise the lot of us! (No pressure, Mr Jackson, if you're looking in!)
Mercy... :shock: He should not be called just the King of Pop, but the King of Entertainment, no wait the King of Love :roll: :? :lol:
Right from the start of TII, I was in the group jumping up and down about orange pants being a double because at the theatre I literally cringed everytime he danced--it was so awkward, feminine and imitation. Then over time I changed to no--it was all Michael because the faces did seem to all be him, and so then I thought to myself that MJ must be trying to look and act like a double for part of the illusion. So now maybe I need to adjust that maybe that dancer was this "trainer" with MJ's head on him. :shock: :o I'm looking forward to that hoax movie where MJ's going to explain how he did everything. :D
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Well Done Sprint!!Good find =]
Are the other parts to this up on youtube before I wander over there? x
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WOW! :o
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Yah they are,I've watched them now.Ignore my previous question.
So yet ANOTHER person to investigate huh lol
the list will never end.....
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I thought there were two red pants MJs, one for close-ups and one for distances. Now I feel it could possibly be this elsewhere bloke in the distance shots.
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My answer for the last question in this video is :
Michael can dance like David Elsewhere, but David Elsewhere can't dance like Michael Jackson!
Yes, David has it's unique style, in which Michael showed interest! So what ? That doesnt' mean that Michael was David in TII!
Anyway, keep the faith!
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WOW...this seriously BLEW MY MIND!!!! what gets me though is in all the vids of David dancing with others superimposed over him...it kinda looks 'odd' like you can tell it was CGI, but with Mike in TII it looks like a 'real' person...ik it has been a few years between his vids and TII and there were probably some technological advances...or maybe they superimposed his whole body rather than just a head (which is what I'm really thinkin' right now)...at the same time 'Mikes' new style of dance looks VERY 'flexy' (much like David's)and not precise like MJ usually is...GEEZ...idk what to think, but this is a DEF possibility, no doubt about that!!!!!
Edit: I hope this makes sense...I'm TERRIBLE at explaining stuff :lol:
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When I first saw TII and all the times after that I SAID & NEW IN MY HEART THAT IT WAS NOT MJ.
This was not new information for me.
But David Bernal on the credits of TII is BIG NEWS! INCREDIBLE NEWS:) :o :o
What CGI computered generated imagery can do is ALSO BIG NEWS! :o :o
WOW!
BUT WHY WOULD MICHAEL JACKSON NEED DAVID BERNAL?
Maybe was it to make the haox seem unreal?
Or maybe this will make the comback even greater WHEN THE REAL MICHAEL JACKSON COMES BACK.
WAS HE TO SICK TO DANCE AND SING? SORRY I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT ONE!!
Or did he just want to see if anybody was paying attention or would even figure it out!!
We are all tumbling down the rabbit hole and soon WE WILL KNOW THE TRUTH & THE TRUTH WILL SET US FREE.
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Perhaps MJ just threw his name into the hoax mix to really confuse everyone and get them talking even more about the possiblities of what is really possible with todays technology and how what you see isn't always what is real? Another clue?
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Guys, let's not lose track of reality! I know it's hard when it comes to MJ :D, BUT:
This superimposing technique can be used for video purposes, but the people doing the actual shooting (for instance all the dancers and crew who rehearsed with Michael, and all the crew doing the shooting in "Alice in Wonderland") would know WHO was dancing in front of them! And let's keep in mind that Michael didn't just exist in TII or in an alternate reality... He was out and about with his kids, meeting people (including fans outside his house) etc. Why are you talking about him trying to look younger?! I mean, some people saw him in everyday life...
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I guess Michael achieved what he wanted, pioneering a technique in filming. When he will reveal himself to celebrate this? Otherwise there was no point because hundreds of thousands his fans did not get his genius untill someone explains. Not all fans daily investigate MJ's death hoax to discover this, many of them believe he is dead.
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I would like to understand this. I am searching an answer for this since the theory about the doubles came on. I still don't think it is about doubles in TII. About Bernal, it would be really helpful to have someone who would explain us with good details how can this be done. If the head can be attached.. then how about the hands? I personally have the Blu Ray version of TII, and I clearily see those are his hands, his fingers. It would help a lot to have someone to explain us the double theory in this case
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I find those commercials made by Bernal looking kind of fake.. in the meaning that it's something that makes you say "well, it's something strange, it's a computer work here". In TII no. In TII everything looks, moves naturally. In Bernal's commercial you can see something "broken" in the head-body relation. Like one of them is not ok. In TII no. I never agreed on the double theory and I think I won't be able to agree until someone helps us and gives us good explanations.
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I dont believe it, that handsome gentleman in This Is It is definitely Michael all over... you can tell by the hands, posture and so on.. 8-)
Totally agree 8-) It has a very good point though ;)
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but..... :o i read "movement coach:mj (as d. bernal)" and it means a different thing,to me:it's like they're saying that the movement coach is mj!!
mj = movement coach,but mj himself features bernal :shock:
does mike want us to think that we've seen an "impersonator" in tii?? .....i don't know why,but it's written in the video, "movement coach:mj".
it reminds to me the impersonator in red (do you remember him?? he was close to jermy and his body language seemed belonging to mj's!!) that we saw in the party footages..... probably,it was mike in disguise and he was "playing" an impersonator :o
ok,i'm crazy :lol:
*LUNA*
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You can tell the difference when this technique is used. It looks bazaar !! Like the head is not a part of the body. Come on, it was not that way in TII. All Michael.
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Interesting.
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We must check every name in This Is It credits! Who knows, maybe we'll find more something strange.. like this :? :?
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I really believe it's possible.
Check out the Computer generated imagery in The Case Of Benjamin Buttons
http://www.spike.com/blog/behind-scenes-of/73892 (http://www.spike.com/blog/behind-scenes-of/73892)
Even most of the movie Phantom of the Menance was computer generated!
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We're coming full circle I feel. I have been able to convince so many people that Michael is still alive, and they are TALKING ABOUT IT. It makes me feel so proud. 50% of the people who use to look at me like I was an alien are now seeing the light and all the inconsistencies. It's a miracle. And I'm so happy. They are talking about it. Finally.
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Puts a whole new spin on orange pants dude!!
I love orange pants dude, but his moves were somewhat different, off :? They were good, but not quite Michaelish. There was another not quite Michael in This is it; the one that sang I just can't stop loving you. The way he seemed unsure of where or how to put his hands when he was about to go into the embrace. I'm not saying for sure that it wasn't Michael, but I've never seen Michael awkwardly go into an embrace. He knows how to hold a woman. Hands down.
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We must check every name in This Is It credits! Who knows, maybe we'll find more something strange.. like this :? :?
Pille,
You are right! You just never know! So mannnnnnnnnnnyyyyyyyyyyyyyy strange things been going on since June 2009!
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Here are the full credits for TII:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1477715/fullcredits (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1477715/fullcredits)
It's a LONG list. If you look at the way in which the names and roles are written, it will become clear that David Bernal was a movement coach for Michael. I'm sorry if that's hard to believe, but I don't think we should change the facts to make them fit what we want to believe.
For instance, the list contains the following:
Karen Faye - hair designer: Michael Jackson
Rushka Bergman - personal stylist: Michael Jackson
Seth Riggs - vocal consultant: Michael Jackson
David Elsewhere Bernal - movement coach: Michael Jackson (as David Bernal) [This means that he was credited as David Bernal - i.e. under that name.]
John Branca - legal counsel: Michael Jackson, Ziffren Brittenham LLP
David Byrnes - legal counsel: Michael Jackson, Ziffren Brittenham LLP
Lou Ferrigno - conditioning coach: Michael Jackson
Michael Kane - business manager: Michael Jackson
Thome R. Thome - personal advisor: Michael Jackson
Zaldy - costume designer: Michael Jackson
Brigitte Segal - tour manager: Michael Jackson
Irina Brecher - ballet instructor
Do you see what I'm trying to say? I bolded the last one to show you that Bernal was not the only person hired to offer dance instruction/coaching. And multiple people were credited as choreographers: MJ, Kenny Ortega, Travis Payne, Jonathon Rice + some assistant/associate choreographers.
Michael collaborated with other musicians... Why wouldn't he collaborate with other dancers? He loved to learn from other people... And just as he learned from James Brown and Fred Astaire, maybe he thought he had something to learn from Bernal - who really seems to have a style of his own.
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I thought there were two red pants MJs, one for close-ups and one for distances. Now I feel it could possibly be this elsewhere bloke in the distance shots.
Maybe three? The real MJ for the close-ups and then two orange pants "MJ"'s for the distances - the orange pants with the silver jacket and the another one with the hat, smooth criminal jackett and blue t-shirt.
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Mind Fuck indeed :lol:
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I find those commercials made by Bernal looking kind of fake.. in the meaning that it's something that makes you say "well, it's something strange, it's a computer work here". In TII no. In TII everything looks, moves naturally. In Bernal's commercial you can see something "broken" in the head-body relation. Like one of them is not ok. In TII no. I never agreed on the double theory and I think I won't be able to agree until someone helps us and gives us good explanations.
Agree with you Tarja I have watched that Bernal video a few times and some of the movements are broken u know? I kinda don't see that in TII?
BUT.....who is the daredevil here that is willing to contact our friend Kenny Ortega for some answers? Not :oops: me
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very interested !