Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators
Latest News => Michael Jackson News => Topic started by: White_Orchid on February 09, 2010, 09:17:31 PM
-
Thought I'd share a few thoughts with you, please excuse any spelling errors. For those who read to the end, I'd be interested in your thoughts about the urine as the amount of urine vs the prostate medical condition seems contradictory to me. Thanks.
Synopsis of few contradictory autopsy statements and other miscellaneous observations
Clothing
Page 1.-Physical Evidence-NO
Page 3.- Body in hospital gown
Page 15. Body not clothed and no clothing available for review
Teeth
p.1-Teeth-all natural
p.13-metallic/ceramic restorations and multiple ceramic restorations of all maxillary teeth
p.24-incomplete dental records
p.32 and p.33-2 caps on teeth+2 teeth implants
Murray
911 caller stated Murray gave CPR on bed
p2.-Murray pulled patient to floor
p.2-throughout transport all medical orders were given by Murray-anyone have pics of murray in the ambulance???
p.2-paramedics found asystolic -pupils fixed and dilated
UCLA Medical Centre
p.2-Dr. Cooper pronounced death at 2:26 pm
P.1-LA Coroner assigned case at 16:15
P.1 LA Coroner arrive at UCLA at 17:20
p.1-Alexander Perez transported body to Los Angeles FSC at 18:50- 4 1/2 hours after Cooper pronounced death at 2:26 PM
Scene Evidence
P3.-closed bottle of urine at left foot of bed
p.42- 450 urine collected at the scene
p.3-opened box of catheters
p.3-external catheter present (on body,lower abdomen)
Autopsy Results
p.17-bladder contained 550 grams of clear yellow-orange urine
p.23-squamous metaplasia
p.23-Respiratory Bronchiolitis
p.23-chronic interstital pneumonitis
p.41-Benezodiazopine-Heart Blood-162 ml
p.41-Propfol-Femoral Blood test results for Propofol was 2.6 ml
p.43-Propofol-Blood test for Propofol was 3.2 ml
p.44-Propofol-Liver prpofol was 4.1 ml
p.45-Propofol-Stomach test for Propofol was .13 mg
p.47-Propofol-Urine propogol was .15ml
p.48-Propofol-Vitreous propofol was .40ml
Coroner Conclusions
P.21 Circumstances indicate that propofol....were administered by another
p.21-circumstances do not support self-administration of propofol
p.23-"it should be noted the aove lung injury with reserve loss is not to be considered a direct or contributing cause of death. However, such an individual would be susceptible to adverse health effects".
p.49 2 syringes containing Propofol, amounts .17g and .47g
My thoughts:
Teeth
p.24-incomplete dental records-This is my personal favorite in all the comments of this official autopsy because without complete dental records, there cannot be a verification to identify the body as that of Michael Jackson. Various means of forensic identification are used but dental records are a common method of verification.
Murray
WTF-make up your mind Murray, did you do CPR on the bed or floor-pick one!
UCLA
4.5 hours is a l-o-n-g time, WTH was going on?
Autopsy Results
Wow, imo, this amount of drugs is murder, not manslaughter. Oxman was right to say 'Michael' was swimming it it'.
This is beyond shocking!
Coroner Conclusions (P.21).. Circumstances indicate that propofol....were administered by another.
Terminal Respiratory Condition?
Corpse person had respiratory condition consistent with smoker. However, remember that a pack of ciggies was photographed on the bedside table-so, who was the smoker?
Whoever this person was, coroner comments suggest condition was serious, might be terminal? (p.23)
Sounds like a nice way of saying the patient would die soon:
"it should be noted the above lung injury with reserve loss is not to be considered a direct or contributing cause of death. However, such an individual would be susceptible to adverse health effects".
Wiki definition of some respiratory medical terms
p.23-squamous metaplasia-common with people who smoke-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squamous_metaplasia
p.23-Respiratory Bronchiolitis-Associated Interstitial Lung Disease-http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/466351
p.23-chronic interstital pneumonitis-patient coughs, rapid out of breath, disease is terminal- http://www.henriettesherbal.com/eclecti (http://www.henriettesherbal.com/eclecti) ... r-int.html
Forensic Drug Reference Chart
Check out Propofol limits for toxicity levels!!!!!
http://www.forensic-toxicology.org/o-z.html (http://www.forensic-toxicology.org/o-z.html)
Word Puzzle
Somehow words 'trauma/gershwin' struck me as odd, see p.42-see "Trauma/Gershwin".
So I haven't investigated but discovered this interesting upload to YouTude 7 months ago about the '7 ages of Man':
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... type=&aq=f (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=trauma+gershwi&search_type=&aq=f)
Urine Puzzle
Corpse person had 450 ml of urine in his bladder which is close to 2 cups of urine. Yet, Murray had attached a urine catheter which was found on the body. So, how why did the bladder fill up with 2 cups of urine if the body was catherized?
There was ALSO a capped bottled of urine found on a chair at the foot of the bed (another 550ml?).
Why was there so much urine?
If 2 cups in a bottle, 2 cups in bladder, that would be 4 cups of urine. One of the medical conditions listed was a prostate condition that I understood to have 'urine hesitancy' which contradicts the amount of urine found on scene.
Murray is lying.
Didn't Murray say he gave 'Michael' .25ml...nothing that should have killed him?
Somewhere I read that Murray too off to see a hooker, so was there someone else on site pummping the IV full of Propofol?
Fact is that this corpse person was poisoned by Propofol.
Final Thoughts
The surgery scars and tatoos along with the 'terminal' respiratory medical condition suggest to me that a terminal double was killed. I never heard Michael cough. A person with those respiratory conditions would most likely wheeze and cough.
I don't believe the autopsy was done on Michael.
-
Very usefull list, Good Job!
And thank you very much!
-
Excellent job, White Orchid, and your thoughts are plausible. I always had this thought that a double was the person that died...and don't mean to hack your thread, but my husband even thought of the possibility that the propofol was injected after the person had passed to make it seem like an accidental overdose? You know, a person who was dancing like a 20 yr. old two days before his "death" doesn't just drop dead out of the blue...I mean, it can happen, but its just not the norm.
-
I can shed some light on the urine.
An external, or condom catheter, only captures urine as it is expelled from the body during the act of peeing-whether voluntary or not. Usually it is used for incontinence of urine.
An internal catheter is inserted into the bladder and drains urine continuously. Perhaps the filled cup near the bed was used to empty the catheter bag at one point?????
However, none of this justifies that the story is true. I find it odd that a man would have the need to be catheterized for a few hours of sleep. Something is very fishy here. It all sounds rather concocted or someone was terminal in that house.
-
@ White Orchid, fantastic job. My hat is off to you! Thank you so much I was seeing and thinking everything that you have stated here. Kudo's I am very impressed!
Also, does anyone remember Christmas 2008 there were false reports that Micheal was terminally ill and might be in need of a heart/lung transplant. It was all over the new here in Los Angeles. Please let me know if anyone else remembers this. We are on to something here. Thank you all again for your dedication and hard work on this subject. God bless you all.
Wendy E
-
This is so far one of the best theories I've read in a while regarding how the hoax was done...If MJ would sleep only for a few hours, why would he need an internal catheter to collect urine?
@Michaelsupporter great thoughts there. The terminal patient would explain why no one was allowed to go upstairs besides the kids and Murray. I remember reading something like that back in July.
@WendyE, yes, I remember reading something like that on the National Enquirer on Dec. 08. This is probably when everything started. I remember the NE had given MJ exactly six months to live, and exactly six months after that "report", he "dies". I do believe we are on to something here.
-
Excellent job, White Orchid, and your thoughts are plausible. I always had this thought that a double was the person that died...and don't mean to hack your thread, but my husband even thought of the possibility that the propofol was injected after the person had passed to make it seem like an accidental overdose? You know, a person who was dancing like a 20 yr. old two days before his "death" doesn't just drop dead out of the blue...I mean, it can happen, but its just not the norm.
WOW! never thought of that!
-
For Lawd's sake, of course it wasn't done on the living Michael Jackson! Just tell me this- do the papers say Michael Joseph Jackson? Do they?
-
@white_orchid
GREAT JOB! VERY GOOD OBSERVATIONS!!!
ABOUT THE URINE BOTTLE, WHO SAY WAS MJ URINE? THEY DON´T KNOW THAT... WASN´T HIS ROOM AND WASN´T HIS PERSONAL EFFECTS... SO THE CIGARETTES COULD BE OF SOMEONE ELSE...
-
I can shed some light on the urine.
An external, or condom catheter, only captures urine as it is expelled from the body during the act of peeing-whether voluntary or not. Usually it is used for incontinence of urine.
An internal catheter is inserted into the bladder and drains urine continuously. Perhaps the filled cup near the bed was used to empty the catheter bag at one point?????
However, none of this justifies that the story is true. I find it odd that a man would have the need to be catheterized for a few hours of sleep. Something is very fishy here. It all sounds rather concocted or someone was terminal in that house.
Thank you for the medical explanations, would you mind another question?
How long does a body take to produce 2 cups of urine in the bladder?
The autopsy reported 450 urine in the bladder which about 2 cups...plus another 550 ml of urine in the bottle at the end of the bed.
What doesn't make sense to me is that the autopsy referred this patient as having a prostrate condition that made urinating difficult....so, it is bizarre that this is nearly 4 cups of urine in the room.
Catheters could also be used to INJECT urine....but, if so, why?
Any thoughts???
Also, I wonder if Murray was the only one INJECTING PROPOFOL...???
Hhhmm, a lot of cash and jewels were missing...
:?:
-
Very nice! :)
-
I can shed some light on the urine.
An external, or condom catheter, only captures urine as it is expelled from the body during the act of peeing-whether voluntary or not. Usually it is used for incontinence of urine.
An internal catheter is inserted into the bladder and drains urine continuously. Perhaps the filled cup near the bed was used to empty the catheter bag at one point?????
However, none of this justifies that the story is true. I find it odd that a man would have the need to be catheterized for a few hours of sleep. Something is very fishy here. It all sounds rather concocted or someone was terminal in that house.
Thank you for the medical explanations, would you mind another question?
How long does a body take to produce 2 cups of urine in the bladder?
White orchid,
It is odd that a dehydrated individual (as they claim MJ was) would have that much urine at the bedside and in the catheter bag. If so, it would have accumulated over time. I doubt that a terminal man would make this much urine either. Was Murray collecting his own urine, perhaps?????? The general rule of thumb for individuals who are ill-hospitalized-is to maintain at least 30mL/urine/hour. Generally, most people will produce more if they have healthy kidneys. The hourly output in that case will vary based on drugs used, diuretics etc. It's hard to predict but a total of 1000mL could be excreted in a matter of a couple of hours if lasix, or another diuretic was taken. Or, could have accumulated over a period of 10 hours or more (depending on the health of the kidneys). However, if Michael returned home around 1-2 a.m. and hadn't been able to sleep....he was able to urinate on his own. Prostrate problems don't prevent one from going....it only causes stopping and starting (flow issues). Having an enlarged prostate would not effect the flow once a catheter was inserted for it bypasses the prostate and the tip is in the bladder. There would be no need to "inject" urine into the bladder.
The autopsy reported 450 urine in the bladder which about 2 cups...plus another 550 ml of urine in the bottle at the end of the bed.
What doesn't make sense to me is that the autopsy referred this patient as having a prostrate condition that made urinating difficult....so, it is bizarre that this is nearly 4 cups of urine in the room.
Catheters could also be used to INJECT urine....but, if so, why?
Any thoughts???
Also, I wonder if Murray was the only one INJECTING PROPOFOL...???
Hhhmm, a lot of cash and jewels were missing...
:?:
-
I can shed some light on the urine.
An external, or condom catheter, only captures urine as it is expelled from the body during the act of peeing-whether voluntary or not. Usually it is used for incontinence of urine.
An internal catheter is inserted into the bladder and drains urine continuously. Perhaps the filled cup near the bed was used to empty the catheter bag at one point?????
However, none of this justifies that the story is true. I find it odd that a man would have the need to be catheterized for a few hours of sleep. Something is very fishy here. It all sounds rather concocted or someone was terminal in that house.
Thank you for the medical explanations, would you mind another question?
How long does a body take to produce 2 cups of urine in the bladder?
White orchid,
It is odd that a dehydrated individual (as they claim MJ was) would have that much urine at the bedside and in the catheter bag. If so, it would have accumulated over time. I doubt that a terminal man would make this much urine either. Was Murray collecting his own urine, perhaps?????? The general rule of thumb for individuals who are ill-hospitalized-is to maintain at least 30mL/urine/hour. Generally, most people will produce more if they have healthy kidneys. The hourly output in that case will vary based on drugs used, diuretics etc. It's hard to predict but a total of 1000mL could be excreted in a matter of a couple of hours if lasix, or another diuretic was taken. Or, could have accumulated over a period of 10 hours or more (depending on the health of the kidneys). However, if Michael returned home around 1-2 a.m. and hadn't been able to sleep....he was able to urinate on his own. Prostrate problems don't prevent one from going....it only causes stopping and starting (flow issues). Having an enlarged prostate would not effect the flow once a catheter was inserted for it bypasses the prostate and the tip is in the bladder. There would be no need to "inject" urine into the bladder.
The autopsy reported 450 urine in the bladder which about 2 cups...plus another 550 ml of urine in the bottle at the end of the bed.
What doesn't make sense to me is that the autopsy referred this patient as having a prostrate condition that made urinating difficult....so, it is bizarre that this is nearly 4 cups of urine in the room.
Catheters could also be used to INJECT urine....but, if so, why?
Any thoughts???
Also, I wonder if Murray was the only one INJECTING PROPOFOL...???
Hhhmm, a lot of cash and jewels were missing...
:?:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urinary_bladder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urinary_bladder)
The urinary bladder usually holds 300-350 mL of urine; a full adult bladder holds about 500mL of urine, 15 times its empty volume. Not all specialists accept these values, some say a urinary bladder can hold ca. 1000 mL, but it is different from person to person. As urine accumulates, the rugae flatten and the wall of the bladder thins as it stretches, allowing the bladder to store larger amounts of urine without a significant rise in internal pressure. [3]
The desire to urinate usually starts when the bladder reaches around 25% of its working volume. At this stage it is easy for the subject, if desired, to resist the urge to urinate. As the bladder continues to fill, the desire to urinate becomes stronger and harder to ignore. Eventually, the bladder will fill to the point where the urge to urinate becomes overwhelming, and the subject will no longer be able to ignore it.
-
@michaelsupporter
Thanks, appreciated your informative posts!
So, there was 4 cups of urine in less than 12 hours. Very, very bizarre.
:shock:
-
@michaelsupporter
Thanks, appreciated your informative posts!
So, there was 4 cups of urine in less than 12 hours. Very, very bizarre.
:shock:
Personally, I don't believe this report. I still don't see why anyone needs to be catheterized at home for a few hours of sleep. I don't think the report is authentic. Since when do cardiologists insert catheters anyhow? This is all beginning to sound ridiculous.
-
OMG everything makes sense now! Thank you all! :D
-
@michaelsupporter
Thanks, appreciated your informative posts!
So, there was 4 cups of urine in less than 12 hours. Very, very bizarre.
:shock:
Oh and by the way... aren't they saying he was dehydrated as well? Seems like alot of urine for someone that is dehydrated.
White Orchard this is a brilliant post. Thank you! :)
-
Also, I wonder if Murray was the only one INJECTING PROPOFOL...???
Hhhmm, a lot of cash and jewels were missing...
:?:
hmmm...interesting thought...maybe there really was a murder (and robbery) done in the house, but it wasn't MJ who was killed? Could be why the Jacksons are pushing for murder charges?
-
I can shed some light on the urine.
An external, or condom catheter, only captures urine as it is expelled from the body during the act of peeing-whether voluntary or not. Usually it is used for incontinence of urine.
An internal catheter is inserted into the bladder and drains urine continuously. Perhaps the filled cup near the bed was used to empty the catheter bag at one point?????
However, none of this justifies that the story is true. I find it odd that a man would have the need to be catheterized for a few hours of sleep. Something is very fishy here. It all sounds rather concocted or someone was terminal in that house.
I wonder if the terminally ill patient was bearded...autopsy report says the subject's face was unshaven...?
-
I can shed some light on the urine.
An external, or condom catheter, only captures urine as it is expelled from the body during the act of peeing-whether voluntary or not. Usually it is used for incontinence of urine.
An internal catheter is inserted into the bladder and drains urine continuously. Perhaps the filled cup near the bed was used to empty the catheter bag at one point?????
However, none of this justifies that the story is true. I find it odd that a man would have the need to be catheterized for a few hours of sleep. Something is very fishy here. It all sounds rather concocted or someone was terminal in that house.
I wonder if the terminally ill patient was bearded...autopsy report says the subject's face was unshaven...?
Really now? Unshaven???? I wish that document would open for me but doesn't. At any rate, I don't recall MJ being anything but clean shaven in the This Is It movie? Does the autopsy report mean "stubble" "5 o'clock shadow" ......what?????? It is perplexing to me. I am not buying it.
-
@michaelsupporter
Thanks, appreciated your informative posts!
So, there was 4 cups of urine in less than 12 hours. Very, very bizarre.
:shock:
First of all, God bless you all! Your hard work and your dedication is going to pay off. I know that it will . Wow, 4 cups of urine in 12 hours. I think that I remember reading somewhere that MJ complained of being dehydrated. The article is current. I have highlighted where MJ complained about being dehydrated.
I found this about article stating that fact: http://www.sanfranciscosentinel.com/?p=59491 (http://www.sanfranciscosentinel.com/?p=59491)
MICHAEL JACKSON AUTOPSY REPORT RELEASED - DEEMED HOMICIDE
9 February 2010
CNN
LOS ANGELES — With Dr. Conrad Murray officially charged in Michael Jackson’s death, the Los Angeles coroner has released the autopsy report that said it was a homicide.
The 51-page report gives vivid detail supporting last August’s conclusion that Jackson died from “acute propofol intoxication.”
Murray told investigators he gave Jackson propofol, a powerful anesthetic, to help him sleep.
An anesthesiology consultant hired by the coroner to review the findings of the investigation said that “there are NO reports of its use for insomnia relief, to my knowledge,” according to the report.
“The only reports of its use in homes are cases of fatal abuse (first reported in 1992), suicide, murder and accident,” Dr. Selma Calmes wrote.
“The standard of care for administering propofol was not met,” she wrote.
Murray, who was with Jackson when he died, is charged with involuntary manslaughter by acting “without malice” but also “without due caution and circumspection.”
Jackson, who hired Murray as his physician while he prepared for what was to have been a series of comeback concerts, called the doctor to his rented Holmby Hills mansion last June 25 at about 1 a.m., the report said.
“The decedent complained of being dehydrated and not being able to sleep,” it said.
A police affidavit previously made public said that the doctor told investigators he gave Jackson three anti-anxiety drugs to help him sleep that morning.
Murray told them he had been treating Jackson for insomnia for six weeks at the time of the singer’s death. He had given Jackson 50 milligrams of the sedative propofol diluted with the local anesthetic lidocaine every night via an intravenous drip.
The doctor told police he was worried that Jackson was becoming addicted to the drug and was trying to wean him off it.
During the two nights before Jackson’s death, Murray said, he put together combinations of other drugs that succeeded in helping Jackson sleep.
Coroner investigators first examined Jackson’s body at UCLA Medical Center less than three hours after he was pronounced dead. They used the picture on his California driver’s license to confirm it was the singer.
“The decedent’s head hair is sparse and is connected to a wig. The decedent’s overall skin has patches of light and dark pigmented areas,” an investigator wrote.
Jackson suffered permanent hair loss when his scalp caught fire while he was taping a Pepsi commercial in 1984. He was known to wear wigs in public after the mishap.
Jackson’s dermatologist, Dr. Arnold Klein, told CNN last year that he had treated Jackson for vitiligo, a skin condition that causes irregular patches of white skin.
Jackson weighed 136 pounds and was 69 inches tall, according to measurements taken during the autopsy the morning after his death.
The front of Jackson’s scalp, from his hairline, was tattooed with dark ink over “frontal balding.” His eyebrows and the border of his eyelids were also tattooed.
“There is a pink tattoo in the region of the lips,” the report said.
The autopsy report noted several broken ribs, apparently suffered during the efforts to revive him.
The autopsy also said that Jackson’s left lung was affected by “widespread respiratory bronchiolitis and chronic lung inflammation” that could have had an “adverse health effect.” But it was not “considered to be a direct or contributing cause of death,” a pathologist hired as a consultant concluded.
Calmes, the consultant, concluded that propofol was administered without the recommended equipment being present, including a “continuous pulse oxymeter, EKG and blood pressure cuff.”
Use of the anesthesia requires “full patient monitoring by a person trained in anesthesia,” she wrote. Murray is a cardiologist.
“There was no evidence of an infusion pump for control of an IV infusion. No monitors were found at the scene; a blood pressure cuff and portable pulse oxymeter were recovered from a closet in the next room,” Calmes wrote.
The consultant said supplemental oxygen “should always be delivered” when propofol is being administered.
An oxygen tank was found near where Jackson slept, but it was empty when the coroner investigator checked it two weeks after Jackson died, Calmes said.
“Multiple opened bottles of propofol were found with small amounts of remaining drug,” Calmes said. “A used bottle should be discarded six hours after opening, to avoid possible bacterial growth.”
“The levels of propofol found on toxicology exam are similar to those found during general anesthesia for major surgery,” Calmes said.
During such surgery, any patient would be “intubated and ventilated by an anesthesiologist,” she said.
The consultant’s report said the level of lorazepam, a powerful anti-anxiety agent found in Jackson’s body, “would have accentuated the respiratory and cardiovascular depression from propofol.”
An involuntary manslaughter charge against a physician is a “very unusual thing to see,” according to Dr. Bruce Cranner, a New Orleans defense lawyer in medical cases.
Cranner said prosecutors may have a “pretty good case” against Murray if they can show he did not take proper precautions when giving Jackson the propofol.
-
I can shed some light on the urine.
An external, or condom catheter, only captures urine as it is expelled from the body during the act of peeing-whether voluntary or not. Usually it is used for incontinence of urine.
An internal catheter is inserted into the bladder and drains urine continuously. Perhaps the filled cup near the bed was used to empty the catheter bag at one point?????
However, none of this justifies that the story is true. I find it odd that a man would have the need to be catheterized for a few hours of sleep. Something is very fishy here. It all sounds rather concocted or someone was terminal in that house.
I wonder if the terminally ill patient was bearded...autopsy report says the subject's face was unshaven...?
Really now? Unshaven???? I wish that document would open for me but doesn't. At any rate, I don't recall MJ being anything but clean shaven in the This Is It movie? Does the autopsy report mean "stubble" "5 o'clock shadow" ......what?????? It is perplexing to me. I am not buying it.
On the first page under facial hair it says "unshaven" and they only used a driver's license to identify the body.
Here's what I think...the false reports in Dec. '08 of MJ being terminally ill are referring to this mystery terminally ill patient. Which explains why they were not sleeping in MJ's room...it also explains why all that extraordinary medical stuff was found in there. The mystery terminally ill patient is actually the one who died, not MJ...maybe a lookalike? I don't know...I also don't know about the Propofol...possible it could have been injected post mortem? Maybe the propofol was being injected in between the time when the patient was discovered not breathing and the time that 911 was called...Who knows...but this absolutely confirms the hoax for me...no doubt about it...MJ is ALIVE, for sure. (Hi MJ if you're reading! :D)
-
thanks white_orshid...you really went to great lengths here.
Isn't his foll name Michael Joe Jackson, not Mickhael Joseph Jackson ?
This report states Michael Joseph Jackson; same as supposed death certificate.
As far as all the other drugs in whoever's system, if there even was a body :shock: which I highly doubt.
When the partial autopsy report came out, I looked up every single one of those drugs & warnings about interactions with other drugs/medications. *whatever, there's obviously a fine line between the two. :roll:
None of these drugs, are ever supposed to be given in combination with one-another :o
let alone with propofal.
This is a pretty screwy report, don't ya think :?:
:? And wasn't it reported that Murray had fled the scene that day ?
Geraldine Hughes just sent out a note that read that Murray was gone from the house for 4 hours. This is the 1rst ever mention of Murray giving any report that day :!:
The question is, how much is the hospital, coroner's office & LAPD in on this ?
:idea:
-
@tkliem1014
I agree older reports of MJ's bad health were probably floated to the media to support this terminal dude' death.
The list of contradictory autopsy results are so bad that the DA would risk tanking some key points of his case if he chances this autopsy in Murray's case.
Hhhmmm, Any thoughts if possibly tanking the DA Cooley plans might be an Illuminati coup or the hand of our beloved Puppet Master????
Chief Bratton checked out of Dodge months ago, mid-term, as I recall.
The DA wants to run for California Attorney General. If the DA screws up the Jackson case, then there is a good chance he will loose his bid for office.
If it was proved that this terminal patient WASN'T Michael, and the DA had spent tax dollars investigating and autopsying a Double/or Impersonator, then it would be a no-brainer that Cooley would loose his chance for the Deputy Attorney job.
http://laist.com/2010/01/11/steve_cooley_takes_formal_steps_to.php
http://66.226.4.226/news/2010/01/11/la- ... -committe/ (http://66.226.4.226/news/2010/01/11/la-county-da-cooley-announces-exploratory-committe/)
http://da.co.la.ca.us/history/cooley.htm (http://da.co.la.ca.us/history/cooley.htm)
:shock: :shock: :?: :?: :shock: :shock:
-
Michael has 2 Driver's Licenses under 2 different names and pictures....all part of the plan!!! Tat may be why he wore a mask so that our recall would be unclear.
Also, as someone mentioned, the autopsy ID Michael with his Driver's License photo.
I recall that a forum member did a really good compartive that proved Michael has 2 Driver;s Licemses...like one titled Michael J. Jackson and the other one titled Michael Joe Jackson....or something like that.
That comparison was done in the old forum so maybe someone can find it? It's late here and I have an early day tomorrow.
:shock: :?:
c@A forum
-
The question is, how much is the hospital, coroner's office & LAPD in on this ?
:idea:
I don't think they're in on it at all...see my post above yours. ;)
-
Really nicely laid out white_orchid.
I have to say though it doesn't make sense to me that this could be a body double because even if the lung disease was terminal, the autopsied person's lungs were in good enough shape that they ruled out that being the cause of death, which means that someone was still murdered with propofol. Oh and the person only had an external condom catheter placed, not an internal one. And I still think the middle name makes absolutely no difference to the legitimacy of the documents.
-
I also wanted to add if he had been taking these drugs for quiet sometime, would'nt this cause liver damage? The report does'nt say anything about his liver being bad? :?
-
[attachment=0:3rj42j0k]1forthosewhocare.jpg[/attachment:3rj42j0k]
-
My english is not very good, so ein write most of the time only in short form. But now I try to do a longer post:
I translated the Autopsy-report but I dont know, if everything is right what my translator says. BUT have you read about the wood-perls in his bed and on the ground?
The Report says, MJ was lying on the perls and had red spots on his back. Im wondering: MJ couldnt sleep... but he was lying on perls who made red spots???? I cant believe this. Some perls are in the bed, the other once are on the ground, far away? What was going on there? And could this be the necklace we have seen on the TII Photos? I always thought, MJ doesnt like necklace.
-
[attachment=0:5g4ybuex](http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=3036)[/attachment:5g4ybuex]
Is this possibly our mystery terminally ill patient who died on 6/25/09?
-
I was just thinking, what if the old reports were true & Michael was sick, he just didn't want people to know or his family didn't know or something. What if he really was terminally ill or whatever? :?
But then again, unshaven - in the ambulance pic, which was probably fake, & in this is it he had no beard or anything. Soooo....I'm back to believing in the hoax now.
-
not sure, found this a while ago on the net and saved it, seems weird...has anyone else come across this or heard anything about e casonova being ill??? i don't even know when it was dated or how long it had been on the net.. a possibility it could have been him...any thoughts anyone :D
-
not sure, found this a while ago on the net and saved it, seems weird...has anyone else come across this or heard anything about e casonova being ill??? i don't even know when it was dated or how long it had been on the net.. a possibility it could have been him...any thoughts anyone :D
I think it's plausible it could have been him...it says he was friends w/MJ. Maybe he was staying & being cared for @ MJ's house during his last days (or months), since they were friends.
-
I THINK WE ARE GETTING TO THE REAL "MEAT" OF ALL THIS NOW........ANYONE AGREE????
-
not sure, found this a while ago on the net and saved it, seems weird...has anyone else come across this or heard anything about e casonova being ill??? i don't even know when it was dated or how long it had been on the net.. a possibility it could have been him...any thoughts anyone :D
E'Casanova refuted the article that he was ill and was supposed to have done some concerts in Hawaii at the end of last year. There is a Youtube video of him speaking in Hawaii but I don't have the link at the moment.
-
Isn't it procedure that you are not supposed to eat or drink for 6 hrs before general anesthesia to avoid unnecessary complications.
Anesthesia causes nausea and if you have eaten or drunk something you could choke on it. So how could Michael have drunk so many bottles of orange juice and tried to sleep with a full bladder. Isn't that one reason for insomnia - a full bladder?
-
Isn't it procedure that you are not supposed to eat or drink for 6 hrs before general anesthesia to avoid unnecessary complications.
Anesthesia causes nausea and if you have eaten or drunk something you could choke on it. So how could Michael have drunk so many bottles of orange juice and tried to sleep with a full bladder. Isn't that one reason for insomnia - a full bladder?
You can drink tea a few hours before 'cos my hubby was told he could have tea and toast at 5:00 a.m. - he was having a hip replacement at Midday.
-
I don't think that the Jackson family are in on it....but Chief Bratton, maybe yes, because it was another shock to see Bratton leaving for a new job in the 'private' sector after a lifetime of service in police forces which was bizarre.
The helicopter guys put in a transported a body but then unloaded a surfboard. idk. I the helicopter guys are involved somehow.
Coroner van, there were several coroner dudes in the van with the surfboard for MINUTES ...and then we watched one dude walk away.
idk, was the terminal dude already in Coroner's van before the helicopter guys delivered the surfboard?
:?: :shock: :?:
-
Did it actually say that the urine found in the room was MJ's? If I recall, this was supposed to be CM's room when he stayed there, wasn't it? Perhaps it was his instead?
Maybe he was suppose to use the bottle for himself while MJ was under the influence of the propofol. Or at least, that is what he was suppose to do. But instead, left the room for a couple of minutes? Again, doesn't make sense.
Just a thought....
-
Most excellent discussion kids, like true focused investigators.
I couldn't help but laugh at the amount of urine still in his bladder seeing as he was dehydrated and all. Maybe he had a Propofol/Bud Light drip?
Seriously, I read your comments scanning for the call letters DNA
When I see a DNA report I may become more interested in the autopsy findings.
DNA DNA DNA DNA DNA DNA DNA DNA DNA DNA DNA -Give - it - to - us ! ! ! !
[/b]
Some research on where all MJs body doubles are at this moment may be a good trail to set out on.........
xoxoxo
-
I wonder if the terminally ill patient was bearded...autopsy report says the subject's face was unshaven...?
Surely that's correct though?...he came in late at night, went to bed and never woke up... so he was going to be unshaven. It's not like he got up, had a shower and a shave and was then murdered/faked his death.
Also, in regards to the talk about the external catheter.. Has it been confirmed that Murray put this on before anything went wrong?!! Or is it not possible that this was put on after the paramedics arrived or when he arrived at UCLA? When my auntie was rushed to hospital unconscious, one of the 1st things they did with her was catheterise her. As when u are unconscious, u have no control over bladder functions. :?:
-
Excellent post!
I've been saying for months that a double died that day.On the old board, a few months after June 25th, someone on the board talked about the double being named Johnathan and that it was him who died on that day.
MJ was one of the, if not the most photographed person in the world and there is no one photo of him smoking. Sure there are some of him with a cig unlit to his mouth, we've all pretended to smoke but just playing, but none of him smoking, no accounts of him smelling like smoke. Yet he had a condition that is almost always that of a smoker. Come on...this person was going to die from this disease. So are we to believe that if this was MJ, then he was dying of lung disease?
I don't think so. I believe MJ pulled off the ultimate hoax. This is something he has planned for over a year. This is why he agreed to do the concerts when he knew he could not.
Also, the beads on the bead, who sleeps in a wooden necklace? The same necklace on the O2 guy?
When they went back to get hair samples, the body was covered with towels? What happened to the white "Grammy" jacket? Whey would they take off the clothes before putting him in the tomb?
Unshaven? The face in the ambulance was clean. And the pics of his last rehersal were a clean face.
And what about the lupus? Maybe I need to read the autopsy again, but was there any mention of his lupus?
-
Thought I'd share a few thoughts with you, please excuse any spelling errors. For those who read to the end, I'd be interested in your thoughts about the urine as the amount of urine vs the prostate medical condition seems contradictory to me. Thanks.
Synopsis of few contradictory autopsy statements and other miscellaneous observations
Clothing
Page 1.-Physical Evidence-NO
Page 3.- Body in hospital gown
Page 15. Body not clothed and no clothing available for review
Teeth
p.1-Teeth-all natural
p.13-metallic/ceramic restorations and multiple ceramic restorations of all maxillary teeth
p.24-incomplete dental records
p.32 and p.33-2 caps on teeth+2 teeth implants
Murray
911 caller stated Murray gave CPR on bed
p2.-Murray pulled patient to floor
p.2-throughout transport all medical orders were given by Murray-anyone have pics of murray in the ambulance???
p.2-paramedics found asystolic -pupils fixed and dilated
UCLA Medical Centre
p.2-Dr. Cooper pronounced death at 2:26 pm
P.1-LA Coroner assigned case at 16:15
P.1 LA Coroner arrive at UCLA at 17:20
p.1-Alexander Perez transported body to Los Angeles FSC at 18:50- 4 1/2 hours after Cooper pronounced death at 2:26 PM
Scene Evidence
P3.-closed bottle of urine at left foot of bed
p.42- 450 urine collected at the scene
p.3-opened box of catheters
p.3-external catheter present (on body,lower abdomen)
Autopsy Results
p.17-bladder contained 550 grams of clear yellow-orange urine
p.23-squamous metaplasia
p.23-Respiratory Bronchiolitis
p.23-chronic interstital pneumonitis
p.41-Benezodiazopine-Heart Blood-162 ml
p.41-Propfol-Femoral Blood test results for Propofol was 2.6 ml
p.43-Propofol-Blood test for Propofol was 3.2 ml
p.44-Propofol-Liver prpofol was 4.1 ml
p.45-Propofol-Stomach test for Propofol was .13 mg
p.47-Propofol-Urine propogol was .15ml
p.48-Propofol-Vitreous propofol was .40ml
Coroner Conclusions
P.21 Circumstances indicate that propofol....were administered by another
p.21-circumstances do not support self-administration of propofol
p.23-"it should be noted the aove lung injury with reserve loss is not to be considered a direct or contributing cause of death. However, such an individual would be susceptible to adverse health effects".
p.49 2 syringes containing Propofol, amounts .17g and .47g
My thoughts:
Teeth
p.24-incomplete dental records-This is my personal favorite in all the comments of this official autopsy because without complete dental records, there cannot be a verification to identify the body as that of Michael Jackson. Various means of forensic identification are used but dental records are a common method of verification.
Murray
WTF-make up your mind Murray, did you do CPR on the bed or floor-pick one!
UCLA
4.5 hours is a l-o-n-g time, WTH was going on?
Autopsy Results
Wow, imo, this amount of drugs is murder, not manslaughter. Oxman was right to say 'Michael' was swimming it it'.
This is beyond shocking!
Coroner Conclusions (P.21).. Circumstances indicate that propofol....were administered by another.
Terminal Respiratory Condition?
Corpse person had respiratory condition consistent with smoker. However, remember that a pack of ciggies was photographed on the bedside table-so, who was the smoker?
Whoever this person was, coroner comments suggest condition was serious, might be terminal? (p.23)
Sounds like a nice way of saying the patient would die soon:
"it should be noted the above lung injury with reserve loss is not to be considered a direct or contributing cause of death. However, such an individual would be susceptible to adverse health effects".
Wiki definition of some respiratory medical terms
p.23-squamous metaplasia-common with people who smoke-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squamous_metaplasia
p.23-Respiratory Bronchiolitis-Associated Interstitial Lung Disease-http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/466351
p.23-chronic interstital pneumonitis-patient coughs, rapid out of breath, disease is terminal- http://www.henriettesherbal.com/eclecti (http://www.henriettesherbal.com/eclecti) ... r-int.html
Forensic Drug Reference Chart
Check out Propofol limits for toxicity levels!!!!!
http://www.forensic-toxicology.org/o-z.html (http://www.forensic-toxicology.org/o-z.html)
Word Puzzle
Somehow words 'trauma/gershwin' struck me as odd, see p.42-see "Trauma/Gershwin".
So I haven't investigated but discovered this interesting upload to YouTude 7 months ago about the '7 ages of Man':
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... type=&aq=f (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=trauma+gershwi&search_type=&aq=f)
Urine Puzzle
Corpse person had 450 ml of urine in his bladder which is close to 2 cups of urine. Yet, Murray had attached a urine catheter which was found on the body. So, how why did the bladder fill up with 2 cups of urine if the body was catherized?
There was ALSO a capped bottled of urine found on a chair at the foot of the bed (another 550ml?).
Why was there so much urine?
If 2 cups in a bottle, 2 cups in bladder, that would be 4 cups of urine. One of the medical conditions listed was a prostate condition that I understood to have 'urine hesitancy' which contradicts the amount of urine found on scene.
Murray is lying.
Didn't Murray say he gave 'Michael' .25ml...nothing that should have killed him?
Somewhere I read that Murray too off to see a hooker, so was there someone else on site pummping the IV full of Propofol?
Fact is that this corpse person was poisoned by Propofol.
Final Thoughts
The surgery scars and tatoos along with the 'terminal' respiratory medical condition suggest to me that a terminal double was killed. I never heard Michael cough. A person with those respiratory conditions would most likely wheeze and cough.
I don't believe the autopsy was done on Michael.
This autopsy report just confirms what I have been thinking for a long time. There was someone else in the house that was terminally ill and was going to die. I figure it was either E'Casanova or MJ's double.
-
- It didn't mention the scar he has at the rightside of his lower lip.
- No mention of the scar he has on his right cheek (since his childhood)
- Can't remember Michael having 'brown' hair? It seems black to me!
- Michael Joseph Jackson? Michael Joe Jackson? Michael Jackson? Why so inconsistent??
-
And what about the lupus? Maybe I need to read the autopsy again, but was there any mention of his lupus?
I thought his lupus was in remission or whatever. But still it should be on the report, you'd think?!?!
-
Great posts everyone!! The "urine" stuff just doesn't make any sense to me, but what really gets me is all the "propofol" stuff. What I'd like to know is this... Murray said that he had given Michael 50ml of propofol every night for 6 weeks prior to this night right? So does anyone know how long he would be knocked out for with this amount being adminstered nightly? If you wake up as soon as the drug is not being administered, this would mean that Murray would have to be sitting at his bedside, for hours at a time so that Michael could stay asleep. But, if he only administered 50mls a night, how long would that keep him asleep for? It doesn't sound like very much propofol to me and if we can find out how long 50mls lasts, we might just find out that he wouldn't have gotten "enough" sleep to make it worthwhile! right? So why give it to him at all? Plus the fact that you don't feel rested with Propofol anyway, so if he wanted to be knocked out for "sleep" purposes, why not use a different anesthetic? Hope this makes sense :? I don't buy the whole "propofol" theory at all....it smells HOAX to me!
-
I can shed some light on the urine.
An external, or condom catheter, only captures urine as it is expelled from the body during the act of peeing-whether voluntary or not. Usually it is used for incontinence of urine.
An internal catheter is inserted into the bladder and drains urine continuously. Perhaps the filled cup near the bed was used to empty the catheter bag at one point?????
However, none of this justifies that the story is true. I find it odd that a man would have the need to be catheterized for a few hours of sleep. Something is very fishy here. It all sounds rather concocted or someone was terminal in that house.
i agree with this 100% the condom catheter stuck out to me, why would he need this, also the incontinent sheet on the bed, so basically what they are saying that once he was asleep he peed himself, REALLY COME ON!!
sounds like they had an ederly patient there or someone who was definatly ill!! thats why they didn't recognise him when they arrived!! IMO
oh i noticed no mention of lupus either!! hmmmmmmmmm :geek:
-
I love this thread! :)
ALSO - http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/ye ... son23.html (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0208101jackson23.html)
did anyone else noticed on the report about them preparing the body for viewing? (SEE LINK ABOVE) How they put a wig on top of the head and put sheets over the body, only exposing the hands, then put a towel over his head, only exposing the top of his head?!?!?!
So essentially ppl viewing the body wouldn't recognize that this wasn't MJ??? :o
-
Thought I'd share a few thoughts with you, please excuse any spelling errors. For those who read to the end, I'd be interested in your thoughts about the urine as the amount of urine vs the prostate medical condition seems contradictory to me. Thanks.
Synopsis of few contradictory autopsy statements and other miscellaneous observations
Clothing
Page 1.-Physical Evidence-NO
Page 3.- Body in hospital gown
Page 15. Body not clothed and no clothing available for review
Teeth
p.1-Teeth-all natural
p.13-metallic/ceramic restorations and multiple ceramic restorations of all maxillary teeth
p.24-incomplete dental records
p.32 and p.33-2 caps on teeth+2 teeth implants
Murray
911 caller stated Murray gave CPR on bed
p2.-Murray pulled patient to floor
p.2-throughout transport all medical orders were given by Murray-anyone have pics of murray in the ambulance???
p.2-paramedics found asystolic -pupils fixed and dilated
UCLA Medical Centre
p.2-Dr. Cooper pronounced death at 2:26 pm
P.1-LA Coroner assigned case at 16:15
P.1 LA Coroner arrive at UCLA at 17:20
p.1-Alexander Perez transported body to Los Angeles FSC at 18:50- 4 1/2 hours after Cooper pronounced death at 2:26 PM
Scene Evidence
P3.-closed bottle of urine at left foot of bed
p.42- 450 urine collected at the scene
p.3-opened box of catheters
p.3-external catheter present (on body,lower abdomen)
Autopsy Results
p.17-bladder contained 550 grams of clear yellow-orange urine
p.23-squamous metaplasia
p.23-Respiratory Bronchiolitis
p.23-chronic interstital pneumonitis
p.41-Benezodiazopine-Heart Blood-162 ml
p.41-Propfol-Femoral Blood test results for Propofol was 2.6 ml
p.43-Propofol-Blood test for Propofol was 3.2 ml
p.44-Propofol-Liver prpofol was 4.1 ml
p.45-Propofol-Stomach test for Propofol was .13 mg
p.47-Propofol-Urine propogol was .15ml
p.48-Propofol-Vitreous propofol was .40ml
Coroner Conclusions
P.21 Circumstances indicate that propofol....were administered by another
p.21-circumstances do not support self-administration of propofol
p.23-"it should be noted the aove lung injury with reserve loss is not to be considered a direct or contributing cause of death. However, such an individual would be susceptible to adverse health effects".
p.49 2 syringes containing Propofol, amounts .17g and .47g
My thoughts:
Teeth
p.24-incomplete dental records-This is my personal favorite in all the comments of this official autopsy because without complete dental records, there cannot be a verification to identify the body as that of Michael Jackson. Various means of forensic identification are used but dental records are a common method of verification.
Murray
WTF-make up your mind Murray, did you do CPR on the bed or floor-pick one!
UCLA
4.5 hours is a l-o-n-g time, WTH was going on?
Autopsy Results
Wow, imo, this amount of drugs is murder, not manslaughter. Oxman was right to say 'Michael' was swimming it it'.
This is beyond shocking!
Coroner Conclusions (P.21).. Circumstances indicate that propofol....were administered by another.
Terminal Respiratory Condition?
Corpse person had respiratory condition consistent with smoker. However, remember that a pack of ciggies was photographed on the bedside table-so, who was the smoker?
Whoever this person was, coroner comments suggest condition was serious, might be terminal? (p.23)
Sounds like a nice way of saying the patient would die soon:
"it should be noted the above lung injury with reserve loss is not to be considered a direct or contributing cause of death. However, such an individual would be susceptible to adverse health effects".
Wiki definition of some respiratory medical terms
p.23-squamous metaplasia-common with people who smoke-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squamous_metaplasia
p.23-Respiratory Bronchiolitis-Associated Interstitial Lung Disease-http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/466351
p.23-chronic interstital pneumonitis-patient coughs, rapid out of breath, disease is terminal- http://www.henriettesherbal.com/eclecti (http://www.henriettesherbal.com/eclecti) ... r-int.html
Forensic Drug Reference Chart
Check out Propofol limits for toxicity levels!!!!!
http://www.forensic-toxicology.org/o-z.html (http://www.forensic-toxicology.org/o-z.html)
Word Puzzle
Somehow words 'trauma/gershwin' struck me as odd, see p.42-see "Trauma/Gershwin".
So I haven't investigated but discovered this interesting upload to YouTude 7 months ago about the '7 ages of Man':
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... type=&aq=f (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=trauma+gershwi&search_type=&aq=f)
Urine Puzzle
Corpse person had 450 ml of urine in his bladder which is close to 2 cups of urine. Yet, Murray had attached a urine catheter which was found on the body. So, how why did the bladder fill up with 2 cups of urine if the body was catherized?
There was ALSO a capped bottled of urine found on a chair at the foot of the bed (another 550ml?).
Why was there so much urine?
If 2 cups in a bottle, 2 cups in bladder, that would be 4 cups of urine. One of the medical conditions listed was a prostate condition that I understood to have 'urine hesitancy' which contradicts the amount of urine found on scene.
Murray is lying.
Didn't Murray say he gave 'Michael' .25ml...nothing that should have killed him?
Somewhere I read that Murray too off to see a hooker, so was there someone else on site pummping the IV full of Propofol?
Fact is that this corpse person was poisoned by Propofol.
Final Thoughts
The surgery scars and tatoos along with the 'terminal' respiratory medical condition suggest to me that a terminal double was killed. I never heard Michael cough. A person with those respiratory conditions would most likely wheeze and cough.
I don't believe the autopsy was done on Michael.
I have chronic bronchitis (cant spell) and if MJ would have had it we would have known it mine flares up everytime I get a cold but normally without a cold its hard to tell I have it but when it flares constant coughing, lungs rattle, pressure on chest and I use an inhaler called Spiriva once a day with Advair for rescue and I have them around all the time because it can flare out of no where did Michael have any of these inhalers? And bronchitis isnt terminal or I would be dead long ago.
-
And how no clothing for review? He didnt arrive at the hospital in a hospital gown did he? And I doubt he slept naked since when do paramedics strip a patient naked and why the heck did MJ supposedly have a cath? I read somewhere that 400mg of propofol is what they use for surgery then 25mg would be close to nothing wouldnt it?
-
Plus mj bedroom was a no go area I read
-
Ok, I just did some research and the closet I could find for the calculations of 50mls of propofol is that for a man who weighs 160lbs and 50mls would keep him asleep for aprox. 2hrs! So this just doesn't seem like it would be worthwhile that Michael would take this every night for 6 weeks for a mere 2 hrs sleep! Especially because when you wake up you don't feel rested! I have had propofol many times for a yearly procedure I have to have and as soon as I wake up, you are alert and feel like you have just closed your eyes and the 2 secs. later you open them! Doesn't sound like a good nights sleep to me! Propofol= Prop of fools!!! :lol:
-
i agree with this 100% the condom catheter stuck out to me, why would he need this, also the incontinent sheet on the bed, so basically what they are saying that once he was asleep he peed himself, REALLY COME ON!!
When under anaesthetic, your muscles relax (Including the bladder). Catheters are often used for this reason. I can only go by personal experience.. my auntie was 'put under' and they catheterised her and she was always on top of soil pads. When I asked why, they mentioned the above. It's also one of the reasons why if you are going to have a general anaesthetic, they ask you not to drink/eat for upto 12hrs beforehand.
-
I love this thread! :)
ALSO - http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/ye ... son23.html (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0208101jackson23.html)
did anyone else noticed on the report about them preparing the body for viewing? (SEE LINK ABOVE) How they put a wig on top of the head and put sheets over the body, only exposing the hands, then put a towel over his head, only exposing the top of his head?!?!?!
So essentially ppl viewing the body wouldn't recognize that this wasn't MJ??? :o
And... the dated it was signed - 9/9/09 :roll:
-
Me too had it you feel like you are falling down a hole a rushing sound echo. Then you are awake not restful at all none of that nice dozing and losing your self ifeel a terminall person was there a poor person that needed it it seems to make sense
-
I think the Prosectutions legal team needs to come here and look at everything this board has uncovered!!! You guys are amazing.
-
I can shed some light on the urine.
An external, or condom catheter, only captures urine as it is expelled from the body during the act of peeing-whether voluntary or not. Usually it is used for incontinence of urine.
An internal catheter is inserted into the bladder and drains urine continuously. Perhaps the filled cup near the bed was used to empty the catheter bag at one point?????
However, none of this justifies that the story is true. I find it odd that a man would have the need to be catheterized for a few hours of sleep. Something is very fishy here. It all sounds rather concocted or someone was terminal in that house.
i m with you here
and fantastic job white_orchid
-
Plus mj bedroom was a no go area I read
but he wasn't in his bedroom that was down the hall, so what was this room of horror
-
Beautiful work done here. I knew with a couple of days behind us those brilliant minds would be back to work. This thread is amazing and an amazing job done by the OP. Keep up the great work guys.
-
Me too had it you feel like you are falling down a hole a rushing sound echo. Then you are awake not restful at all none of that nice dozing and losing your self ifeel a terminall person was there a poor person that needed it it seems to make sense
you sound like alice in wonderland
huh ... what picure did mike commission for the kids....
-
I am also trying to figure out why Michael was put in handcuffs after surrendering and Murray waltzes in with no handcuffs and since when does anyone that supposedly ends a life get 75,000 bail and MJ who did nothing of the sort was 3 million WTF?? Makes no sence at all I thought the seriousness of the crime determined the bail?
-
i agree with this 100% the condom catheter stuck out to me, why would he need this, also the incontinent sheet on the bed, so basically what they are saying that once he was asleep he peed himself, REALLY COME ON!!
When under anaesthetic, your muscles relax (Including the bladder). Catheters are often used for this reason. I can only go by personal experience.. my auntie was 'put under' and they catheterised her and she was always on top of soil pads. When I asked why, they mentioned the above. It's also one of the reasons why if you are going to have a general anaesthetic, they ask you not to drink/eat for upto 12hrs beforehand.
but isnt this process painful or uncomfortable, to do this every night, the cure would seem to be just as bad as the problem, was mike out most of the day and night then?
-
[attachment=0:22cbohfm]1forthosewhocare.jpg[/attachment:22cbohfm]
is this real, just a question, i saw some time ago a vid interview that e cas, did in oct 09, so he is still alive
-
I think the Prosectutions legal team needs to come here and look at everything this board has uncovered!!! You guys are amazing.
yes
-
I was just thinking, what if the old reports were true & Michael was sick, he just didn't want people to know or his family didn't know or something. What if he really was terminally ill or whatever? :?
But then again, unshaven - in the ambulance pic, which was probably fake, & in this is it he had no beard or anything. Soooo....I'm back to believing in the hoax now.
mikes voice on TII, it sounded very good, no coughing , no gasps when he moved, he sung and moved?
-
i agree with this 100% the condom catheter stuck out to me, why would he need this, also the incontinent sheet on the bed, so basically what they are saying that once he was asleep he peed himself, REALLY COME ON!!
When under anaesthetic, your muscles relax (Including the bladder). Catheters are often used for this reason. I can only go by personal experience.. my auntie was 'put under' and they catheterised her and she was always on top of soil pads. When I asked why, they mentioned the above. It's also one of the reasons why if you are going to have a general anaesthetic, they ask you not to drink/eat for upto 12hrs beforehand.
i totally understand this, but it also said he was dehydrated!! so would you still pee? i'm not sure on this to be honest!!
and there's was bottles of juice and stuff!! pffffff i'm confused again.. obviously he knew he would pee then aswell therefore knowing the effects and risks!!
-
It was very difficult to read that report! Whoever that was he was very ill and was medicated to death.
Do any of you remember the site The Troot Will Prevail? Well that site disappeared about 2 months ago.
I was shocked that it was just completely gone!!!!!!
Well there was a blog on there about Michael Having a double who was a terminally ill patient who was paid many millions to have plastic surgery to look like Michael Jackson and die in his place. HE LIVED UPSTAIRS AND NOBODY WAS ALLOWED TO GO UPSTAIRS SO THEY WOULD NOT KNOW THERE WAS TWO MICHAEL JACKSON'S. THAT IS WHY DR. MURRAY WAS BRINGING HIM HIS BREAKFAST!!
THIS IS AMAZING AND A TRUE THRILLER!! AND THIS WAS ON HER BLOG!!
PLEASE IF ANYBODY REMEMBERS THIS SITE OR HAS BEEN ON IT OR EVEN HAS ANY OF THE INFORMATION SAVED PLEASE LET US ALL REVIEW IT. THIS WAS JUST THIS PERSON'S
OPINION AND THEY MADE THAT VERY CLEAR. MO & SOUZA HAD A GREAT BLOG ON THERE TO.
MY HEART AND MY DEEP INTUITIVE NATURE TELLS ME MICHAEL LIFE WAS IN SERIOUS DANGER SOME TIME BACK DURING THE WHOLE TOMMY IS A DEVIL, SONY AND THE BEST IS YET TO COME COMMENT. STEPS WERE TAKEN, PLANS WERE MADE, PEOPLE WERE SEARCHED OUT, PARTS WERE PUT IN PLACE,SCRIPTS WERE WRITTEN AND MICHAEL JACKSON PUT EVERYTHING TOGETHER!!!
EVERY SINGLE MOVE AND STEP WAS WRITTEN OUT BY HIM.
HE PICKED THE PICTURES AND EVERY THING FOR THE MEMORIAL AND BURIAL. HE PUT THE CLUES THERE FOR THOSE WHO HAD A OPEN MIND AND HEART TO SEE PAST ALL OF THE DECEPTION AND LIES. PEOPLE WHO WERE NOT CONTROLLED BY THE MEDIA THE TV AND THE NEWS. I DO NOT KNOW IF MICHAEL WILL EVER COME BACK BUT IT WAS INTERESTING AT THE END OF THIS IS IT HE SAID I WILL SHOW MY FACE WHEN I AM READY!!!
OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT ANYWAY! IF THERE WAS A BODY IT WAS NOT MICHAEL JACKSON WHO DIED.
THAT IS WHAT IS IN MY HEART! MY GUT! MY MIND! MY SPIRIT! AND MY SOUL!!!!!!!
ALL OF YOU WHO IS WITH ME ON THIS SAY OUT LOUD HE IS ALIVE! HE IS ALIVE! HE IS ALIVE!
-
Me too had it you feel like you are falling down a hole a rushing sound echo. Then you are awake not restful at all none of that nice dozing and losing your self ifeel a terminall person was there a poor person that needed it it seems to make sense
you sound like alice in wonderland
huh ... what picure did mike commission for the kids....
Not when I woke up and had 4 wisdom teeth out ouch lol
-
did the autopsy say anything about broken foot or ankle sory if this is already mentioned
-
did the autopsy say anything about broken foot or ankle sory if this is already mentioned
not that i remember it mentioned cracked ribs and shown puncture marks in his feet and ankles and everywhere else, the only limb it mentioned as such was his little finger (pinky) having arthuritus
-
@michaelsupporter
Thanks, appreciated your informative posts!
So, there was 4 cups of urine in less than 12 hours. Very, very bizarre.
:shock:
sorry being a bit of a twit here but the drug is fed through mike via his vein, is the flow of fluid sufficient to produce this amount of urine for the period of time the drug was administered, the reports says i think that mike called him to his residence - but thought he was on site in the evenings ?
that cm gave him other drugs and it was only when they did not work and mike asked him for the milk that he died so that means that he hadnt had the drip for hours?
-
did the autopsy say anything about broken foot or ankle sory if this is already mentioned
not that i remember it mentioned cracked ribs and shown puncture marks in his feet and ankles and everywhere else, the only limb it mentioned as such was his little finger (pinky) having arthuritus
this report i will have to find the time to read too busy at moment..
but was there any mention of mike other known blemish, eg his scar on his cheek, the indent on his nose
or burn scar on his head
-
Good discussion on picking apart the autopsy gang.
I didn't join this forum until November, but do recall reading a post on the terminally ill body double taking MJs place for a hoax. Was like the dbl only had 3 months to live or something like that.
Why would a corpse be laid out in a casket for the coroner to come take hair samples?
Wouldn't the bodies be kept in the cooler until a formal showing or funeral ???
In any of these reports is there mention of DNA testing. I didn't see any. That right there tells me something stinks and this is a hoax.
Yep, Michael did a great job on covering all angles.
xoxoxo
-
did the autopsy say anything about broken foot or ankle sory if this is already mentioned
not that i remember it mentioned cracked ribs and shown puncture marks in his feet and ankles and everywhere else, the only limb it mentioned as such was his little finger (pinky) having arthuritus
this report i will have to find the time to read too busy at moment..
but was there any mention of mike other known blemish, eg his scar on his cheek, the indent on his nose
or burn scar on his head
it mentioned scars behind his ears on his shoulder, nose, leg one near his stomach i think like where your appendics would be but he still had them in, don't remember it mentioning his cheek but on the diagrams showed an area on the head like a round circle, didn't mention his tattooed eye liner either just the ones on his hairline, eyebrows and pink lips
think it mentioned a few more scars but not the cheek!!
-
This is credit to a friend of mine who mentioned this on Twitter today:
According to the witness statement, the decedant placed a call to Dr Murray at approx 0100 hours.
Now we know that prior to the 'death', MJ was at rehearsals at the Staples Center, usually until around midnight. Approx journey time from Staples to Carolwood is 25 minutes. So, MJ gets home about approx 1230.
This means he only has half an hour to prepare for bed, go to bed, try to sleep and fail and then ring Murray asking him to come round to give him medication to assist sleep?????
Shamone!!!!!!! :lol: :lol:
-
don't forget he played on his laptop first too.. :P
-
This is credit to a friend of mine who mentioned this on Twitter today:
According to the witness statement, the decedant placed a call to Dr Murray at approx 0100 hours.
Now we know that prior to the 'death', MJ was at rehearsals at the Staples Center, usually until around midnight. Approx journey time from Staples to Carolwood is 25 minutes. So, MJ gets home about approx 1230.
This means he only has half an hour to prepare for bed, go to bed, try to sleep and fail and then ring Murray asking him to come round to give him medication to assist sleep?????
Shamone!!!!!!! :lol: :lol:
that is very interesting, i thought that cm was living or turning up in the evenings for mike didn't he have his own badroom, and what condition could he have been doing the night shift?
and wasnt it previously reported that mikes last day at the staples was on 23rd?
-
[attachment=0:y5ykmlne]1forthosewhocare.jpg[/attachment:y5ykmlne]
is this real, just a question, i saw some time ago a vid interview that e cas, did in oct 09, so he is still alive
Not sure I know he was at Michaels service but lost track of him after that he has a My Space if you want to check it out
-
Jackson's body was fingerprinted.
If someone died in his place, why are the family trying to prosecute Murray and they want murder charges? That does not make sense. If it was a person with a terminal illness, why was this not reported in the autopsy. Is the coroner (and all the consultants) colluding? Some thoeries are so out there they will need very strong evidence to back them up. Point is, how on earth is that autopsy report fake? Every major news agency is reporting that it has been released by the LA Coroner.....why should we NOT believe that the report is the autopsy on Michael Jackson?
One thing that does seem to be contradicted, is that he had no clothes. An article was printed in the Daily Telegraph Magazine - a respected paper - on August 15th. The article was around 6 pages long and titled 'The last days of Michael Jackson'. In the first paragraph it described the scene in the Coroner's where michael jackson lay on a trolley in a room. It described him looking peaceful and wearing nothing apart from black silk pyjama bottoms. It described a red mark on his chest and him being barefoot. This is all from memory. I am sure I kept the magazine but i will have to root it out to be 100% on what i just said. But, if this is true, why did the coroner say they had no clothing? All i can think is that the family asked for him to be clothed that way before he got to the coroner to perhaps protect his dignity from prying eyes? By the way, Kai Chase said in an interview that MJ would come downstairs in his PJ's before bed.
-
Sorry I can't find the post to quote now, and I couldn't respond @ the time because my internet went out.
Earlier today someone posted that the lungs were terminally diseased (caused primarily by smoking), but apparently were in decent enough shape to be ruled out as a cause of death, so someone had to have been killed by Propofol overdose...just to throw a possibility out there...is assisted suicide legal in CA?
-
BTW I noticed that www.thisisalsoit.com (http://www.thisisalsoit.com) is now redirecting to the last page of the report about the hair sample...maybe a DNA test is the answer?
-
Ok, I dont wanna freak anyone out, but there was a member on the old MJKIT forum named anniesnotokey and she was writing HER account on what she thought happened at MJ's house that day. It was written way back last yr sometime.....maybe in August or Sept maybe? I cannot recall, but her story is almost EXACTLY like this.....this is so creepy. She was saying that the double was living upstairs at MJ's house...hence the reason that NO ONE was allowed upstairs because he had to be kept hidden. She called him "Jack" I think. She said he was the one who smoked and was having surgery on his face the night of the 25th and something went wrong and he died. But she included Dr Klien in the story as well cus he was doing the surgery..in the house, and Klien called Murray in a frantic state and they made a deal or something for Murray to take the fall...............I was just over at MJKIT and could not find her posts, but then again I wasnt looking very well. If someone here recalls reading this story I would SO much appreciate if you could post her story so everyone can read it.
This is REALLY odd, that we are all talking about something she wrote months ago and alot of peeps here are new and havent read it yet....
PLEASE, if someone can find her story????? You have to read it....I think her story may be the real thing.
I hope she doesnt mind..
-
i agree with this 100% the condom catheter stuck out to me, why would he need this, also the incontinent sheet on the bed, so basically what they are saying that once he was asleep he peed himself, REALLY COME ON!!
When under anaesthetic, your muscles relax (Including the bladder). Catheters are often used for this reason. I can only go by personal experience.. my auntie was 'put under' and they catheterised her and she was always on top of soil pads. When I asked why, they mentioned the above. It's also one of the reasons why if you are going to have a general anaesthetic, they ask you not to drink/eat for upto 12hrs beforehand.
but isnt this process painful or uncomfortable, to do this every night, the cure would seem to be just as bad as the problem, was mike out most of the day and night then?
As someone mentioned somewhere (could be a different thread) there are two types of catheters. The one MJ supposedly has on, was a condom catheter. You just put it on like a condom, as the name suggests. Which is obviously painless and simple, unlike the other type to insert. But I don't quite understand why he needed one to be honest. Hope that helps :)
-
Meant to say... I've just spent the past hour and a bit reading through the autopsy report, with a medical professional relative. They agreed that some points seemed to contradict each other, but noted a few things which particularly stood out to them...
1. The autopsy mentions a 1.5cm globulated mass located in the left adrenal gland and also a 0.2cm mass in the right kidney (neither of which should be there). She pointed out that if these masses were malignent, it is possible that they had spread from one to the other (meaning the person who was autopsied had a form of cancer which had started to spread. However, she did say that there is just as much chance these masses could have been benign (not cancerous). But the point she was making was, it was extremely strange that these masses/tumours were not investigated/discussed further, when the rest of the autopsy went into so much detail.
2. Also, she found it odd that with so much detail was given on the poor condition of the lungs, them being inflamed etc. Although it states this wasn't severe enough to be the cause of death, she pointed out that someone who suffered it to that extent, would show obvious effects of it in day to day life. i.e. would not be able to sing and dance, like MJ did on the This Is It DVD.
So it is not just novices, that are noticing strange things in the report. :lol:
-
Jackson's body was fingerprinted.
If someone died in his place, why are the family trying to prosecute Murray and they want murder charges? That does not make sense. If it was a person with a terminal illness, why was this not reported in the autopsy. Is the coroner (and all the consultants) colluding? Some thoeries are so out there they will need very strong evidence to back them up. Point is, how on earth is that autopsy report fake? Every major news agency is reporting that it has been released by the LA Coroner.....why should we NOT believe that the report is the autopsy on Michael Jackson?
One thing that does seem to be contradicted, is that he had no clothes. An article was printed in the Daily Telegraph Magazine - a respected paper - on August 15th. The article was around 6 pages long and titled 'The last days of Michael Jackson'. In the first paragraph it described the scene in the Coroner's where michael jackson lay on a trolley in a room. It described him looking peaceful and wearing nothing apart from black silk pyjama bottoms. It described a red mark on his chest and him being barefoot. This is all from memory. I am sure I kept the magazine but i will have to root it out to be 100% on what i just said. But, if this is true, why did the coroner say they had no clothing? All i can think is that the family asked for him to be clothed that way before he got to the coroner to perhaps protect his dignity from prying eyes? By the way, Kai Chase said in an interview that MJ would come downstairs in his PJ's before bed.
These are the exact things that are going through my mind, it's all too complicated to be fake. The autopsy report freaks me out but had to read it for myself. There might be contradicting things in there which we've discusses
here on the forum, however since I dont' have any experience in the medical field whatsoever I can't assume right away that something is false. What we've found "odd" in the AR are just speculations not "real errors". I'd like to hear the opinions of people that work within this area and that do not know about the hoax theory. If I knew anyone I'd ask but unfortunately I don't, does anyone else? I can't bear the thought of Michael being gone but It does seem like that's the case. I do have a bit of hope left but that's all it is: hope and it does not prove anything... :(
-
What caught my attention in the report was that it said there was a telephone (not cell phone) on the table next to the bed. Michael DID NOT have a phone in his room because he didn't want to be disturbed when he slept.
Another thing, when the medical examiner examined the 'body', he recorded the person as being a "black male". But his skin was clearly white. Shouldn't he be recording the facts as he sees them? :roll:
-
It was very difficult to read that report! Whoever that was he was very ill and was medicated to death.
Do any of you remember the site The Troot Will Prevail? Well that site disappeared about 2 months ago.
I was shocked that it was just completely gone!!!!!!
Well there was a blog on there about Michael Having a double who was a terminally ill patient who was paid many millions to have plastic surgery to look like Michael Jackson and die in his place. HE LIVED UPSTAIRS AND NOBODY WAS ALLOWED TO GO UPSTAIRS SO THEY WOULD NOT KNOW THERE WAS TWO MICHAEL JACKSON'S. THAT IS WHY DR. MURRAY WAS BRINGING HIM HIS BREAKFAST!!
THIS IS AMAZING AND A TRUE THRILLER!! AND THIS WAS ON HER BLOG!!
PLEASE IF ANYBODY REMEMBERS THIS SITE OR HAS BEEN ON IT OR EVEN HAS ANY OF THE INFORMATION SAVED PLEASE LET US ALL REVIEW IT. THIS WAS JUST THIS PERSON'S
OPINION AND THEY MADE THAT VERY CLEAR. MO & SOUZA HAD A GREAT BLOG ON THERE TO.
MY HEART AND MY DEEP INTUITIVE NATURE TELLS ME MICHAEL LIFE WAS IN SERIOUS DANGER SOME TIME BACK DURING THE WHOLE TOMMY IS A DEVIL, SONY AND THE BEST IS YET TO COME COMMENT. STEPS WERE TAKEN, PLANS WERE MADE, PEOPLE WERE SEARCHED OUT, PARTS WERE PUT IN PLACE,SCRIPTS WERE WRITTEN AND MICHAEL JACKSON PUT EVERYTHING TOGETHER!!!
EVERY SINGLE MOVE AND STEP WAS WRITTEN OUT BY HIM.
HE PICKED THE PICTURES AND EVERY THING FOR THE MEMORIAL AND BURIAL. HE PUT THE CLUES THERE FOR THOSE WHO HAD A OPEN MIND AND HEART TO SEE PAST ALL OF THE DECEPTION AND LIES. PEOPLE WHO WERE NOT CONTROLLED BY THE MEDIA THE TV AND THE NEWS. I DO NOT KNOW IF MICHAEL WILL EVER COME BACK BUT IT WAS INTERESTING AT THE END OF THIS IS IT HE SAID I WILL SHOW MY FACE WHEN I AM READY!!!
OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT ANYWAY! IF THERE WAS A BODY IT WAS NOT MICHAEL JACKSON WHO DIED.
THAT IS WHAT IS IN MY HEART! MY GUT! MY MIND! MY SPIRIT! AND MY SOUL!!!!!!!
ALL OF YOU WHO IS WITH ME ON THIS SAY OUT LOUD HE IS ALIVE! HE IS ALIVE! HE IS ALIVE!
Hi everyone longtime lurker here...while searching the net I came across this article perhaps this is somewhat what you are talking about??
http://momsword.org/index.php?option=co ... son-death- (http://momsword.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2248:michael-jackson-death-)
http://illuminustheo.blogspot.com/2009/ ... -died.html (http://illuminustheo.blogspot.com/2009/07/michael-jackson-is-not-dead-so-who-died.html)
-
The blog you are talking about is written on July 10 :shock:
Wow , thats fast !
-
Jackson's body was fingerprinted.
If someone died in his place, why are the family trying to prosecute Murray and they want murder charges? That does not make sense. If it was a person with a terminal illness, why was this not reported in the autopsy. Is the coroner (and all the consultants) colluding? Some thoeries are so out there they will need very strong evidence to back them up. Point is, how on earth is that autopsy report fake? Every major news agency is reporting that it has been released by the LA Coroner.....why should we NOT believe that the report is the autopsy on Michael Jackson?
One thing that does seem to be contradicted, is that he had no clothes. An article was printed in the Daily Telegraph Magazine - a respected paper - on August 15th. The article was around 6 pages long and titled 'The last days of Michael Jackson'. In the first paragraph it described the scene in the Coroner's where michael jackson lay on a trolley in a room. It described him looking peaceful and wearing nothing apart from black silk pyjama bottoms. It described a red mark on his chest and him being barefoot. This is all from memory. I am sure I kept the magazine but i will have to root it out to be 100% on what i just said. But, if this is true, why did the coroner say they had no clothing? All i can think is that the family asked for him to be clothed that way before he got to the coroner to perhaps protect his dignity from prying eyes? By the way, Kai Chase said in an interview that MJ would come downstairs in his PJ's before bed.
These are the exact things that are going through my mind, it's all too complicated to be fake. The autopsy report freaks me out but had to read it for myself. There might be contradicting things in there which we've discusses
here on the forum, however since I dont' have any experience in the medical field whatsoever I can't assume right away that something is false. What we've found "odd" in the AR are just speculations not "real errors". I'd like to hear the opinions of people that work within this area and that do not know about the hoax theory. If I knew anyone I'd ask but unfortunately I don't, does anyone else? I can't bear the thought of Michael being gone but It does seem like that's the case. I do have a bit of hope left but that's all it is: hope and it does not prove anything... :(
Well, don't take my word for it and you all aren't anyway 'cause it won't fit your worries and scenarios, but the report isn't fake as these two ladies have mentioned. The person that said they've transcribed many of these report is full of pooh and you believe her just because she said she has and further she says it fake and that's a fit for you. Well, I'm being redundant now. Jeepers. I don't believe it. The fact they went to get hair after the autopsy speaks volumes which is what I thought from day one. You figure it out. :) Everyone knows a doctor 'cause most everyone has one. So ask your doctor the next visit,,, about the report. Hopefully he/she is a hot-shot on the board at the hospital and they'll give you the scoop. Rest assured he/she will tell you it is legit. Have patience and don't go off the deep end. The authorities and the Jackson family know things the public doesn't. Joe and the rest can't say anything publically in a specific manner before the trial and Joe wasn't smirking on LK. He was upset. A lot will shake out in the courtroom. You'll see. They are going for what they think they can prove whether or not they think it was with malice. That's how it works. I think Michael's general condition was good. He had a bad habit of not always hydrating. That's not good. As for the hooker and Dr. Murray - a story. Take it with a grain. Oh, did you hear the women outside the courthouse screaming about that? I'm just kind of rambling here and could write for another hour, but won't torture you.
-
What caught my attention in the report was that it said there was a telephone (not cell phone) on the table next to the bed. Michael DID NOT have a phone in his room because he didn't want to be disturbed when he slept.
Another thing, when the medical examiner examined the 'body', he recorded the person as being a "black male". But his skin was clearly white. Shouldn't he be recording the facts as he sees them? :roll:
Michael was black. That is a fact. The examiner can't say he's examining a caucasian when he knows darn well Michael wasn't caucasian. If the examiner has said Michael was white - what would be your response to that? Think on that and be honest. Get my drift? Michael was not pale all over. That very white skin you always saw was makeup. He always wore makeup.
-
Well Joe was pretending he was upset but he was clear he wasn't. When Joe and his sons went out of the court they were laughing and smilling. When they saw they were filming, they stopped smilling and laughing. A journalist asked a question about the trial to Jermaine and he said we are upset. Sorry but this speaks volume to me.
-
I believe Michael is alive.
If Michael is in hiding, he must have had serious reasons.
Has anyone found that old post with the pictures of the 2 Michael Jackson driver's licenses? I remember that the DL pictures did not seem to be the same person.
I would guess that the autopsy John Doe would have had surgery and tatoos to replicate/MIMIC Michael's body exactly.
Dental records are commonly used in forensic identification so it is very convenient that the autopsy stated that dental records unavailable and incomplete.
Actually, if Michael's old medical records contained DNA records, then they could be used to determine if the John Doe was Michael or not. Joe Jackson is really smart trying to get the release of this info. I remember Katherine requesting a 3rd or 4th autopsy, so if Michael's Mother doesn't believe that the John Doe is her son, then something is really amiss!
One thing is for sure, John Doe's organs were saturated in Propofol. Some thread posters suggested that the Propofol cleared the body quickly. If Propofol clears the body quickly, somebody must have been pumping the stuff into John Doe, because his organs were saturated!!!
John Doe was waay over the toxic limit.
The urine puzzled me all day so another theory popped into my mind so let me know your thoughts.
Does anyone know if there was bathroom attached to that bedroom? If not, then maybe John Doe was hiding and peed in the glass container, earlier in the day.
Remember that the autopsy stated that John Doe's bladder was full of urine, so that suggests to me that John Doe, wasn't trying to sleep for 8 hours.
If John Doe had a urine catheter yet still had a full bladder and unmarked plastic bed protector, it would suggest to me that John Doe was died fast.
If John Doe died fast that would explain the 4 cups of urine and why he was so saturated with Propofol.
The full bladder and the urine container suggested that John Doe was confined to that room.
So, why would he be confined to that room? Was it a plan? If John Doe was terminal, maybe there was an agreed time to end his life, like euthanasia. Some hospices do that for people in cancer pain or by their choice. Maybe John Doe wrote out a will to that effect or something.
Maybe Murray was only brought in for John Doe?
Michael couldn't kill a bug so I don't believe Michael did anything wrong. Maybe the John Doe 'situation' was 'available for use'????
idk :shock: :?:
-
I believe Michael is alive.
Actually, if Michael's old medical records contained DNA records, then they could be used to determine if the John Doe was Michael or not. Joe Jackson is really smart trying to get the release of this info. I remember Katherine requesting a 3rd or 4th autopsy, so if Michael's Mother doesn't believe that the John Doe is her son, then something is really amiss!
One thing is for sure, John Doe's organs were saturated in Propofol. Some thread posters suggested that the Propofol cleared the body quickly. If Propofol clears the body quickly, somebody must have been pumping the stuff into John Doe, because his organs were saturated!
I don't necessarily think Katherine requested those autopsies because she didn't think it was him but probably just to get a 3rd and 4th opinion on the actual cause of death? That's just my opinion..I do wholeheartdly agree though that someone else was in the room pumping propofol into his body..nothing makes sense.. :|
-
I couldn't read here all your posts, but all that info at the begining is a great work.Sorry if I repeat something related to the bottle with urine, because I did not understand you were talking here about this bottle or other one?
If it is correct, I understand was mentioned a bottle of MJ's urine was found in the bedroom.
Is there any mention that they made an analyse of that urine? because in that urine would be found all the medicine we were told that was given to MJ, remember the sedatives and anxiety drugs. And in my opinion if it's true with this bottle, the urine is clean, no medicine.
So they said then in the summer that the report is delayed because they do that tests what drugs are in MJ's body? and takes time. Why? if they have a bottle with urine, there can be found by the urine analyses all the substances.
I read TMZ article speaking about this bottle and I wonder why they mentioned this? just 1 phrase that it was found there in the room.
Then please remember that somewhere are mentioned the hours when all the medicines were given to MJ begining with 1:30, 2... 5, 7, or 7:30 until 10:45 when was the Propofol. I've said before they said 1 sedative, 1 anxiety drug, 1 sedative, 1 anxiety ... and so on, between these administrations there are almost 2 hours. MJ was not sedated and he didn't sleep, that means he can talk etc.. so what he was doing 2 hours, or Murray? did they talk or what? 2 hours and again 2 hours between the adminstration no conversation nothing between MJ and Murray? isnt it very strange that NOBODY asks about this 2 hours pause between the drug admin. ?
For me it seems so stupid : not being asleep all night, MJ had to do something between the drugs administration intervals which is a long time, almost 2 hours. And again the last sedative without any effect to put him to sleep was in the morning at 7:30, so until 10:45 hour when Propofol is involved, what was he doing?
Come on, is so illogical and what about his kids?. Supposing at 9 o'clock waked up and wanted to see their father, who I repeat was OK, I mean not asleep, not sedated do you imagine MJ telling them wait at 10:45 I must try to go asleep again, so know I can't see and talk to you?.
And the last if at aprox. 11 o'clock the Propofol was adiministrated, so for 9 hours he didn't sleep at all, it's 11 o'clock, on 3 hours he should be at Staples, who can believe he wanted to sleep just for 3 hours? I don't believe this !
And know I was thinking about the ambulance video, if it was a real dramatic situation we saw the gates opened, I can't imagine that Paris and Prince wouldn't be in the courtyard, screaming, crying that is MJ there in ambulance, they saw the ambulance coming, they saw /here paramedics coming, so ?? it was very quiet when ambulance was leaving the house, if MJ was there in ambulance the kids would have been outside, not inside the house.
-
If John Doe was terminal, maybe there was an agreed time to end his life, like euthanasia. Some hospices do that for people in cancer pain or by their choice. Maybe John Doe wrote out a will to that effect or something.
I had the same thought about possible assisted suicide...anyone know if it's legal in CA?
-
The paramedics said that MJ was unrecognizable and seemed like an old wrinkled man...yet, they used a license to identify the body?
This is Anniesnotokey's theory and she was the owner of "the troot will prevail" blog also.
http://mjkit.forumotion.net/michael-jac ... t-t878.htm (http://mjkit.forumotion.net/michael-jackson-hoax-death-theories-f2/my-theory-when-you-have-eliminated-the-impossible-whatever-remains-however-improbable-must-be-da-troot-t878.htm)
-
Ok, I dont wanna freak anyone out, but there was a member on the old MJKIT forum named anniesnotokey and she was writing HER account on what she thought happened at MJ's house that day. It was written way back last yr sometime.....maybe in August or Sept maybe? I cannot recall, but her story is almost EXACTLY like this.....this is so creepy. She was saying that the double was living upstairs at MJ's house...hence the reason that NO ONE was allowed upstairs because he had to be kept hidden. She called him "Jack" I think. She said he was the one who smoked and was having surgery on his face the night of the 25th and something went wrong and he died. But she included Dr Klien in the story as well cus he was doing the surgery..in the house, and Klien called Murray in a frantic state and they made a deal or something for Murray to take the fall...............I was just over at MJKIT and could not find her posts, but then again I wasnt looking very well. If someone here recalls reading this story I would SO much appreciate if you could post her story so everyone can read it.
This is REALLY odd, that we are all talking about something she wrote months ago and alot of peeps here are new and havent read it yet....
PLEASE, if someone can find her story????? You have to read it....I think her story may be the real thing.
I hope she doesnt mind..
i wasn't here at the time to read that story but I do remember a couple of weeks ago that same person "checking in" here. She had said she deleted everything in order to move on or something but keeps checking in every once in a while. These theories sound so plausible. Hmm...very interesting. Thank you.
-
Jackson's body was fingerprinted.
If someone died in his place, why are the family trying to prosecute Murray and they want murder charges? That does not make sense. If it was a person with a terminal illness, why was this not reported in the autopsy. Is the coroner (and all the consultants) colluding? Some thoeries are so out there they will need very strong evidence to back them up. Point is, how on earth is that autopsy report fake? Every major news agency is reporting that it has been released by the LA Coroner.....why should we NOT believe that the report is the autopsy on Michael Jackson?
One thing that does seem to be contradicted, is that he had no clothes. An article was printed in the Daily Telegraph Magazine - a respected paper - on August 15th. The article was around 6 pages long and titled 'The last days of Michael Jackson'. In the first paragraph it described the scene in the Coroner's where michael jackson lay on a trolley in a room. It described him looking peaceful and wearing nothing apart from black silk pyjama bottoms. It described a red mark on his chest and him being barefoot. This is all from memory. I am sure I kept the magazine but i will have to root it out to be 100% on what i just said. But, if this is true, why did the coroner say they had no clothing? All i can think is that the family asked for him to be clothed that way before he got to the coroner to perhaps protect his dignity from prying eyes? By the way, Kai Chase said in an interview that MJ would come downstairs in his PJ's before bed.
the coroner could be aware and that is why it's fake?
-
If John Doe was terminal, maybe there was an agreed time to end his life, like euthanasia. Some hospices do that for people in cancer pain or by their choice. Maybe John Doe wrote out a will to that effect or something.
I had the same thought about possible assisted suicide...anyone know if it's legal in CA?
One more thought regarding the propofol injecting...maybe the person died of their terminal lung desease, then the propofol was injected post mortem to make it LOOK like it was propofol overdose...possibly in the time between when the person was discovered "not breathing" and 911 was called? Just a thought...that long time it took to call 911 has bothered me since day 1...that was the first thing that made me think that something was fishy.
Explains why the body was "swimming in it" also, even though propofol is instantly absorbed in the body, I understand.
How could they have detected the propofol in the body anyway, if it's instantly absorbed, unless it WAS injected post mortem?
Maybe the mystery patient, dying of a terminal lung desease had stopped breathing @ 11something o'clock, but their heart was still going so a heck of a lot of propofol was injected while the heart was still going to get it spread through the system a little, then the patient died, and 911 was called...not mentioning MJ's name because he's not the one who needed the ambulance...always wondered why they didn't drop his name in that call to get them to hurry it up a little...
Connect-the-dots...la-la-la-la...
This is like reading a good suspense/mystery book...lol
-
Explains why the body was "swimming in it" also, even though propofol is instantly absorbed in the body, I understand.
How could they have detected the propofol in the body anyway, if it's instantly absorbed, unless it WAS injected post mortem?
Maybe the mystery patient, dying of a terminal lung desease had stopped breathing @ 11something o'clock, but their heart was still going so a heck of a lot of propofol was injected while the heart was still going to get it spread through the system a little, then the patient died, and 911 was called...
They never mentioned MJ's name in the 911 call either...always wondered why they didn't.
Connect-the-dots...la-la-la-la...
This is like reading a good suspense/mystery book...lol
Exactly, the autopsy found Propofol in the stomach, viterous, blood, liver, femerol blood,...and most of the Propofol found was waaaay over the toxic level.
Plus all that urine....really begins to break down like an assisted suicide.
@mjthelegendives
I haven't seen any annieisnotokay posts for quite some time so glad to hear that she is still around. Also, I was unaware that she authored the Troot blog and also unaware that she had already presented the suicide theory. Wish I'd known that, it would have saved me some sleep. annieisnotokay's contributions would be valued, so hope to hear thoughts soon, thanks.
-
The old forum is a wealth of information!
Here's the link for the 2 different Michael Jackson passport photos....
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g114/ ... ssport.jpg (http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g114/Surfing_The_Chaos/mjpassport.jpg)
What do you think???
:shock: :?: :shock:
-
The old forum is a wealth of information!
Here's the link for the 2 different Michael Jackson passport photos....
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g114/ ... ssport.jpg (http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g114/Surfing_The_Chaos/mjpassport.jpg)
What do you think???
:shock: :?: :shock:
If this is asking the Joe or Joseph question again, they both say Joe and it's my understanding that you must use your full legal name on your passport.
-
When Joe and his sons went out of the court they were laughing and smilling. When they saw they were filming, they stopped smilling and laughing. A journalist asked a question about the trial to Jermaine and he said we are upset. Sorry but this speaks volume to me.
Trust me, they knew they were being filmed the entire time...there was a mob of press and fans waiting outside for them, so they didn't stop laughing because they suddenly knew they were being filmed. There are glass doors on the courthouse...there's no way they didn't see everyone. They looked very upset to me, but that doesn't mean someone can't laugh or smile at times either.
I still say that the person could not have had a terminal disease or this would have been mentioned in the report. They could not definitively say that propofol killed him then, which was their conclusion, and they would not have a case against Murray.
-
My personal opinion over the urine matter....
As a sufferer of severe insomnia myself I know that in some cases, insomnia can dehydrate the body, by extra urine produced. Urine metabolize faster, the desire to urinate is higher, and one gets pretty dehydrated after a night of bad insomnia.
In severe cases of insomnia this becomes usual. During the nights urinating need reaches around 4-5 times or even higher.... even if one do not consume liquids, and unrelated to prostrate. So the dehydration kicks in.
-
Great job white orchid!!
I wanna add some observations...
I the first pages of the report, write the decedent suffered a respiratory arrest.....then, after a few pages, write that he suffered a cardiac-respiratory arrest.
We know form the press that he suffered a cardiac arrest.
I know that a cardiac and a respiratory arrest are the same thing.But why they don't use the same name everywhere?They want to mislead us...why? There are so many unclear thing....
And when a person needs help urgently, the paramedics use the techniques of first aid....why they put a probe for urine?Was necessary?For what? You put probe to a "dead" man? And you find 550 grams of urine in the bladder of a person with probe and with a prostate decease? That's impossible.
Is impossible unless somehow Michael was sitting is his hospital room and he could not get out because he risked being seen.In this case he needed a probe for urine :D :D .
-
@tklein
Sorry, I should have clarified my question.
Here's the link for the 2 different Michael Jackson passport photos....
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g114/Surfing_The_Chaos/mjpassport.jpg
These 2 pictures of Michael are visually different, so I listed differences below.
Overall facial differences
Left photo-broad cheekbones
Right photo-narrow cheekbones
Left photo-square head shape
Right photo-long head shape
Left photo-small mouth, full lips
Right photo-bigger stretchy mouth, thin lips
Left photo-round facial features
Right photo-aqualine facial features
Left photos-round eyes
Right photo- cat eyes
Left photo-spacing between eyes-narrow
Right photo-spacing between eyes-wide
Left photo-think neck, Adam's apple
Right photo-thin neck, no discernible Adam's apple
Left photo-dark complexion
Right photo-light complexion
Other differences:
Signatures, similar but different styles
Passport # different
Passport coding #'s at bottom, different
Conclusion
imo, these look like 2 different people
structural difference that cannot be modified by plastic surgery
Puzzle Question
Which Passport Photo did the Coroner use as identification for the body he autopsied??????
So, what do you think???
:shock: :?: :shock:
-
on a passport it is written: NOT VALID UNTELSIGNED
-
on a passport it is written: NOT VALID UNTELSIGNED
Sorry, could you restate, please? I must have misunderstood you, as both passports are signed.
What do you think of the different pictures?
:?:
-
2 passport is signed but the signature of second passport it is written:
untelsigned not valid. what I see!
-
2 passport is signed but the signature of second passport it is written:
untelsigned not valid. what I see!
It says "Not valid until signed"
So the passport has to be signed to make it valid. ;)
-
Trust me, they knew they were being filmed the entire time...there was a mob of press and fans waiting outside for them, so they didn't stop laughing because they suddenly knew they were being filmed. There are glass doors on the courthouse...there's no way they didn't see everyone. They looked very upset to me, but that doesn't mean someone can't laugh or smile at times either.
I still say that the person could not have had a terminal disease or this would have been mentioned in the report. They could not definitively say that propofol killed him then, which was their conclusion, and they would not have a case against Murray.
Precisely! So what some of these theories are postulating is in fact that the body wasn't MJ, it was someone else who had a terminal illness, who died under euthanasia (sedatives and propofol), who had to look like MJ. The coroner then has to fake a report by concealing the 'terminal illness' part and attributing death totally due to propofol. The coroner also ignores the fact that this body is not michael jackson. He then gets other consultants to fake other aspects of the extensive report, including toxicology. His false verdict strongly implicates Conrad Murray - who is going to be falsely accused of involuntary manslaughter. The family (who are in on this too) want to heighten the fun element of all this and try and convict him of murder! Lets not forget that Conrad Murray has to be in on this too, because he admitted giving the propofol, and is willing to take the risk of being convicted in court, losing his license, being sued by the family etc. If Conrad Murray is not involved in a 'grand scheme' then MJ is trying to frame an innocent man.
By the way, who is this dead person who had a terminal illness? We already know that this terminal illness story stemmed from what Ecas wrote on his website, yet Ecas is known to be living. So if Ecas did not die from a terminal illness, what does that do to the theory upon which it is based? To conclude then, why did the dead person have to have had a terminal illness, and upon what facts is that theory now based? If there was no terminal illness, as per the autopsy report, was a healthy person offered up as a sacrifice?
I just wanted to point out that while the theories run wild, few seem to point out the glaring problems with those theories. Unless someone presents some really solid information then IMO if anything is found to be suspicious or unusual in the case, it's because someone is covering their murderous tracks.
-
2 passport is signed but the signature of second passport it is written:
untelsigned not valid. what I see!
It says "Not valid until signed"
So the passport has to be signed to make it valid. ;)
Also, page 24 had amendments on both of them. What is page 24 on a US passport? Is it change of name, or also known by another name? Is it that a second passport is held regarding dual nationality?
-
Also the dates bother me.
One would have expected the expiry date to continue on a year ending on 7 like the first passport picture.
The years 1993 and 2003 on the second passport ( the photo looks like Latoya btw) are the years when the accusations were made, and 1993 was the year Lisa Marie Presley became his wife.
-
The paramedics said that MJ was unrecognizable and seemed like an old wrinkled man...yet, they used a license to identify the body?
This is Anniesnotokey's theory and she was the owner of "the troot will prevail" blog also.
http://mjkit.forumotion.net/michael-jac ... t-t878.htm (http://mjkit.forumotion.net/michael-jackson-hoax-death-theories-f2/my-theory-when-you-have-eliminated-the-impossible-whatever-remains-however-improbable-must-be-da-troot-t878.htm)
YES!!! EVERYONE needs to read this!! Click the link..Its eearily similar to what we are all saying here....MUST READ!
-
@tklein
Sorry, I should have clarified my question.
Here's the link for the 2 different Michael Jackson passport photos....
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g114/Surfing_The_Chaos/mjpassport.jpg
These 2 pictures of Michael are visually different, so I listed differences below.
Overall facial differences
Left photo-broad cheekbones
Right photo-narrow cheekbones
Left photo-square head shape
Right photo-long head shape
Left photo-small mouth, full lips
Right photo-bigger stretchy mouth, thin lips
Left photo-round facial features
Right photo-aqualine facial features
Left photos-round eyes
Right photo- cat eyes
Left photo-spacing between eyes-narrow
Right photo-spacing between eyes-wide
Left photo-think neck, Adam's apple
Right photo-thin neck, no discernible Adam's apple
Left photo-dark complexion
Right photo-light complexion
Other differences:
Signatures, similar but different styles
Passport # different
Passport coding #'s at bottom, different
Conclusion
imo, these look like 2 different people
structural difference that cannot be modified by plastic surgery
Puzzle Question
Which Passport Photo did the Coroner use as identification for the body he autopsied??????
So, what do you think???
:shock: :?: :shock:
I actually never thought that EITHER of those were the real MJ. Too many differences.
-
The only way that Michael could have had a second passport is if the Dept of State issued him with a diplomatic one ( because of his VIP status) and that could be recorded on the endorsement/amendment pages.
-
The paramedics said that MJ was unrecognizable and seemed like an old wrinkled man...yet, they used a license to identify the body?
This is Anniesnotokey's theory and she was the owner of "the troot will prevail" blog also.
http://mjkit.forumotion.net/michael-jac ... t-t878.htm (http://mjkit.forumotion.net/michael-jackson-hoax-death-theories-f2/my-theory-when-you-have-eliminated-the-impossible-whatever-remains-however-improbable-must-be-da-troot-t878.htm)
YES!!! EVERYONE needs to read this!! Its eearily similar to what we are all saying here....MUST READ!
I would love to have good look over Annie's theory again! Does she have it written up all together in a blog? I don't think I have enough time at the moment to read through the whole thread on mjkit.
-
Sorry, but do we have a paramedic statement on that, or is this just from the media. We know a lot of things were reported on in the media that have just not turned out as fact.
-
The paramedics said that MJ was unrecognizable and seemed like an old wrinkled man...yet, they used a license to identify the body?
This is Anniesnotokey's theory and she was the owner of "the troot will prevail" blog also.
http://mjkit.forumotion.net/michael-jac ... t-t878.htm (http://mjkit.forumotion.net/michael-jackson-hoax-death-theories-f2/my-theory-when-you-have-eliminated-the-impossible-whatever-remains-however-improbable-must-be-da-troot-t878.htm)
YES!!! EVERYONE needs to read this!! Its eearily similar to what we are all saying here....MUST READ!
I would love to have good look over Annie's theory again! Does she have it written up all together in a blog? I don't think I have enough time at the moment to read through the whole thread on mjkit.
She had a blog but I believe its been deleted. I will see if I can post her story in another thread......god, I hope she doesnt mind.
-
Sorry, i don't mean to be rude, but can someone have a read over my post on this page (not the paramedic one) because i actually think it's a pretty strong argument for why someone didn't die in MJ's place. And if someone didn't, then it is MJ who died. It's a pretty important part of the hoax theory that holds it together.....but did it unravel?
The post starts 'Precisely! So what some of these theories are postulating is in fact that the body wasn't MJ, it was someone else who had a terminal illness, who died under euthanasia (sedatives and propofol), who had to look like MJ.'
Thankyou.
-
Question: what says there is dead body, mayb nobody died?
We know autopsy is fake, think about it, there is no way that MJ's autopsy would be on the internet for public viewing that is just ludicrous. If MJ has passed, his autopsy would be under lock & key.
IMO Dr. Murray's Arraignment does NOT follow protocol, IMO ficticous Dr. Murray's legal issues could be just a distraction for the media, press & public from the REAL MJ legal issues that are happening around MJ, taking under consideration MJ is under protective service and being protected by the federal gov in i.e. FBI, CIA or what ever the heck it is. Mayb this is why the arraignment was held at LAX court house with the heliport on the roof.
Mayb MJ flew in, & flew out tht day to settle some legal court issues, & Dr Murray's Arraignment was jus a distraction.
I'm sorry I'm off topic for this post.
-
Ok. I posted annies theory in all odd things.....for those of you who are interested. Its a good read...
-
Please check within the list to see my edits.
I am not going to do all of them but I have done quite a bit.
Thought I'd share a few thoughts with you, please excuse any spelling errors. For those who read to the end, I'd be interested in your thoughts about the urine as the amount of urine vs the prostate medical condition seems contradictory to me. Thanks.
Synopsis of few contradictory autopsy statements and other miscellaneous observations
Clothing
Page 1.-Physical Evidence-NO
Page 3.- Body in hospital gown - Next time you go to the hospital remember to release pictures of yourself in a hospital down that way there can be no doubt that you where there. Otherwise if you don't release the picture you are lying.
Page 15. Body not clothed and no clothing available for review
Teeth
p.1-Teeth-all natural
p.13-metallic/ceramic restorations and multiple ceramic restorations of all maxillary teeth
p.24-incomplete dental records
p.32 and p.33-2 caps on teeth+2 teeth implants
Murray
911 caller stated Murray gave CPR on bed
p2.-Murray pulled patient to floor
p.2-throughout transport all medical orders were given by Murray-anyone have pics of murray in the ambulance??? -
That would be a violation of HIPPA, as a EMT myself, if I wanted to say bring a recorder in the ambulance with me and record your story for later review, even if I was going to delete it, that would be a violation of HIPPA reason being the EMT might not delete it and it may get into the wrong hands, all reports taken by EMT's have to be secured in away that is within guidelines to make sure your chart does not get into the wrong hands.
p.2-paramedics found asystolic -pupils fixed and dilated - After death your pupils will dilate. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_do_pupils ... fter_death (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_do_pupils_dilate_after_death). Before death since propfol has an opioid like heroin (not saying heroin is in propfol just saying that it is another time of opioid) pupils would have be constricted.
As to the asystolic all that means is the heart is not beating at all, Just because an AED will not shock that rhythm doesn't mean you do not do CPR, as my instructor once put it, a patient is not dead until they are warm and dead.
UCLA Medical Centre
p.2-Dr. Cooper pronounced death at 2:26 pm
P.1-LA Coroner assigned case at 16:15
P.1 LA Coroner arrive at UCLA at 17:20
p.1-Alexander Perez transported body to Los Angeles FSC at 18:50- 4 1/2 hours after Cooper pronounced death at 2:26 PM
Scene Evidence
P3.-closed bottle of urine at left foot of bed
p.42- 450 urine collected at the scene
p.3-opened box of catheters
p.3-external catheter present (on body,lower abdomen)
Autopsy Results
p.17-bladder contained 550 grams of clear yellow-orange urine
p.23-squamous metaplasia
p.23-Respiratory Bronchiolitis
p.23-chronic interstital pneumonitis
p.41-Benezodiazopine-Heart Blood-162 ml
p.41-Propfol-Femoral Blood test results for Propofol was 2.6 ml
p.43-Propofol-Blood test for Propofol was 3.2 ml
p.44-Propofol-Liver prpofol was 4.1 ml
p.45-Propofol-Stomach test for Propofol was .13 mg
p.47-Propofol-Urine propogol was .15ml
p.48-Propofol-Vitreous propofol was .40ml
Coroner Conclusions
P.21 Circumstances indicate that propofol....were administered by another
p.21-circumstances do not support self-administration of propofol
p.23-"it should be noted the aove lung injury with reserve loss is not to be considered a direct or contributing cause of death. However, such an individual would be susceptible to adverse health effects".
p.49 2 syringes containing Propofol, amounts .17g and .47g
My thoughts:
Teeth
p.24-incomplete dental records-This is my personal favorite in all the comments of this official autopsy because without complete dental records, there cannot be a verification to identify the body as that of Michael Jackson. Various means of forensic identification are used but dental records are a common method of verification. - DNA testing can do the same thing.
Murray
WTF-make up your mind Murray, did you do CPR on the bed or floor-pick one!
UCLA
4.5 hours is a l-o-n-g time, WTH was going on? - no necessarily if you are referring to CPR being done. Would I do CPR for 4.5 hours as an EMT no because I would not have the patient that long, we do not know what was going on behind that closed door, they have gotten him back then lost him and got him back and lost him and that cycle might have continued, which is not uncommon on cardiac arrests, I remember a call I went on, we worked on the patient for about 9 minutes and got him back the patient was breathing by them selves at normal rates, and when we got to the hospital they lost the patient and brought the patient back. And that was with the Patient breathing by them selves, pulses getting back to a good pulse. Now we arrived on scene about 4.5 minutes after it happened, and according to American Heart Association the best chances of survival on a cardiac arrest is CPR started within 2 minutes and an AED within 4 minutes every minute after 4 your chances of bring the patient back go down by the minute.
Autopsy Results
Wow, imo, this amount of drugs is murder, not manslaughter. Oxman was right to say 'Michael' was swimming it it'.
This is beyond shocking!
According to definition it could not have been murder
Murder - kill intentionally and with premeditation
Manslaughter - homicide without malice aforethought
I doubt his doctor was sitting back the day before saying I am going to over dose Michael Jackon on propofol, if he did it would be murder. Its just like if you where driving down the street and a kid ran out in front of your car and you hit and killed the kid, you didn't wake up that morning and say, I am going to go to xyz address and kill a kid, that would be manslaughter if they charged you not murder.
Coroner Conclusions (P.21).. Circumstances indicate that propofol....were administered by another.
Terminal Respiratory Condition?
Corpse person had respiratory condition consistent with smoker. However, remember that a pack of ciggies was photographed on the bedside table-so, who was the smoker?
Whoever this person was, coroner comments suggest condition was serious, might be terminal? (p.23)
Sounds like a nice way of saying the patient would die soon:
"it should be noted the above lung injury with reserve loss is not to be considered a direct or contributing cause of death. However, such an individual would be susceptible to adverse health effects".
Wiki definition of some respiratory medical terms
p.23-squamous metaplasia-common with people who smoke-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squamous_metaplasia
p.23-Respiratory Bronchiolitis-Associated Interstitial Lung Disease-http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/466351
p.23-chronic interstital pneumonitis-patient coughs, rapid out of breath, disease is terminal- http://www.henriettesherbal.com/eclecti (http://www.henriettesherbal.com/eclecti) ... r-int.html
Forensic Drug Reference Chart
Check out Propofol limits for toxicity levels!!!!!
http://www.forensic-toxicology.org/o-z.html (http://www.forensic-toxicology.org/o-z.html)
Word Puzzle
Somehow words 'trauma/gershwin' struck me as odd, see p.42-see "Trauma/Gershwin".
So I haven't investigated but discovered this interesting upload to YouTude 7 months ago about the '7 ages of Man':
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... type=&aq=f (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=trauma+gershwi&search_type=&aq=f)
Urine Puzzle
Corpse person had 450 ml of urine in his bladder which is close to 2 cups of urine. Yet, Murray had attached a urine catheter which was found on the body. So, how why did the bladder fill up with 2 cups of urine if the body was catherized?
There was ALSO a capped bottled of urine found on a chair at the foot of the bed (another 550ml?).
Why was there so much urine?
If 2 cups in a bottle, 2 cups in bladder, that would be 4 cups of urine. One of the medical conditions listed was a prostate condition that I understood to have 'urine hesitancy' which contradicts the amount of urine found on scene.
Murray is lying.
Didn't Murray say he gave 'Michael' .25ml...nothing that should have killed him?
Somewhere I read that Murray too off to see a hooker, so was there someone else on site pummping the IV full of Propofol?
Fact is that this corpse person was poisoned by Propofol.
Final Thoughts
The surgery scars and tatoos along with the 'terminal' respiratory medical condition suggest to me that a terminal double was killed. I never heard Michael cough. A person with those respiratory conditions would most likely wheeze and cough.
I don't believe the autopsy was done on Michael.
-
The paramedics said that MJ was unrecognizable and seemed like an old wrinkled man...yet, they used a license to identify the body?
This is Anniesnotokey's theory and she was the owner of "the troot will prevail" blog also.
http://mjkit.forumotion.net/michael-jac ... t-t878.htm (http://mjkit.forumotion.net/michael-jackson-hoax-death-theories-f2/my-theory-when-you-have-eliminated-the-impossible-whatever-remains-however-improbable-must-be-da-troot-t878.htm)
YES!!! EVERYONE needs to read this!! Click the link..Its eerily similar to what we are all saying here....MUST READ!
As a Mod, what exactly was your point here? Is this what you call hijacking a thread?
I've been away from the board for months and have the neither time nor the inclination to read all the posts.
So,it would be safe to guess that there are tons of similar posts, there are a lot forum members and many of them post.
So, what is the difference if our comments are eerily similar to anyone prior comments????
So what? You must be busy policing re-directs to eerily similar posts.
I'm curious for your MOD answer. What is it about this post that you are re-directing us away from????
:?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:
-
You would think in an "official" document that they could get their facts straight.
-
Please tell me why annie's theory matters, does she have proof?
-
Please tell me why annie's theory matters, does she have proof?
I agree.
I value everyone's opinion. annie has good opinions, but so do lots of other people and my priority on this thread was to hear other people's thoughts. These people are HERE, annie is not.
What I don't like it being directed or ordered to something not of my own accord.
[/color]
:twisted:
-
You would think in an "official" document that they could get their facts straight.
I agree, every aspect of the case seems to be purposely confused. These professionals, surely, cannot so inept?
-
My opinion on the matter White Orchid has brought up is that just as a few of us were posting important info on the pitfalls of someone else dying in MJ's place, the Mod pops up in very obtrusive fashion to try and change the subject and divert people's attention i believe. I actually think there are people on here under certain names who are really the same person, and their goal is to perpetuate the haox theory or aspects of it regardless of evidence to the contrary. That's just my theory, and ofcourse i cannot prove it.
-
Puzzle Question
Which Passport Photo did the Coroner use as identification for the body he autopsied??????
So, what do you think???
:shock: :?: :shock:
I actually never thought that EITHER of those were the real MJ. Too many differences.[/quote]
Exactly, that was my point , Michael had many doubles and so I wondered who they autopsied.
-
...
And when a person needs help urgently, the paramedics use the techniques of first aid....why they put a probe for urine?Was necessary?For what? You put probe to a "dead" man? And you find 550 grams of urine in the bladder of a person with probe and with a prostate decease? That's impossible.
By reading the report (BTW I have the autopsy report of "The Smoking Gun" and I think it is not complete, I did not get to read the complete report), I understood the patient has been already catheterized at home, not by the paramedics (am I wrong?).
Patological conditions of prostatic gland, and particulary Prostatic Hyperplasia, has nothing to do with urine production (if the kidney function is conserved) but with its "elimination". So there's nothing weird with this patient having 550 g of urine in his bladder, when in fact this prostatic condition causes urine retention/ imposibility to get a completely empty bladder (among other symptoms), not alteration of urine production.
-
The paramedics said that MJ was unrecognizable and seemed like an old wrinkled man...yet, they used a license to identify the body?
This is Anniesnotokey's theory and she was the owner of "the troot will prevail" blog also.
http://mjkit.forumotion.net/michael-jac ... t-t878.htm (http://mjkit.forumotion.net/michael-jackson-hoax-death-theories-f2/my-theory-when-you-have-eliminated-the-impossible-whatever-remains-however-improbable-must-be-da-troot-t878.htm)
YES!!! EVERYONE needs to read this!! Click the link..Its eerily similar to what we are all saying here....MUST READ!
As a Mod, what exactly was your point here? Is this what you call hijacking a thread?
I've been away from the board for months and have the neither time nor the inclination to read all the posts.
So,it would be safe to guess that there are tons of similar posts, there are a lot forum members and many of them post.
So, what is the difference if our comments are eerily similar to anyone prior comments????
So what? You must be busy policing re-directs to eerily similar posts.
I'm curious for your MOD answer. What is it about this post that you are re-directing us away from????
:?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:
Excuse me? I wasnt hijacking anything at all. So dont even think of accusing me of that. I just found it kind of odd to read some of the comments here that are similar to a theory a memeber posted months back...thats all. I was encouraging people to read the similarities. I wasnt "re-directing"...Im not sure I understand your attitude problem
-
My opinion on the matter White Orchid has brought up is that just as a few of us were posting important info on the pitfalls of someone else dying in MJ's place, the Mod pops up in very obtrusive fashion to try and change the subject and divert people's attention i believe. I actually think there are people on here under certain names who are really the same person, and their goal is to perpetuate the haox theory or aspects of it regardless of evidence to the contrary. That's just my theory, and ofcourse i cannot prove it.
And thats just it..a theory. I am one person and I have no other names that I go by....you guys are really letting your minds get the best of you arent you?
-
I suggest that you have the attitude problem. You offend me. You are the rock and I'm like water and intend to go around you.
Happy hijaccking!
Because the Jacksonologist hijacked our thread, my enjoyment for posting has turned into a fear and worry that my next post might be' eerily similar to somebody else post' so what's the point of bothering to post anymore?
Good bye everyone, thanks for sharing!
I'm leaving the forum because I object to being policed, even if only in a forum. Freedom in all forms is important.
Ciao!
:D
-
I suggest that you have the attitude problem. You offend me. You are the rock and I'm like water and intend to go around you.
Happy hijaccking!
Because the Jacksonologist hijacked our thread, my enjoyment for posting has turned into a fear and worry that my next post might be' eerily similar to somebody else post' so what's the point of bothering to post anymore?
Good bye everyone, thanks for sharing!
I'm leaving the forum because I object to being policed, even if only in a forum. Freedom in all forms is important.
Ciao!
:D
You know what? Seriously....give me a break. I didnt hijack anything....youre just to high up on your horse. I merely stated that when people on this thread were suggesting something happened that was similar to what Annie wrote, all I did was say something about it. Some people here have not even read her posts so I thought I would share and felt it was important. Do not accuse me of ANYTHING when you come here and "take over" and start to act high and mighty when you yourself said you havent been on here in months. Who are YOU to boss me around? Or anyone for that matter?
I posted her thread in a different area so I would NOT hijack the thread. YOU made a point to call me out and make a specticle of yourself on that one. If I wanted to hijack anything I would have posted her stuff IN THIS THREAD, but I didnt.
I enjoy this thread and do not appreciate your approach to this. In fact Im kinda of confused by your reaction....I think your upset that you think attention is being stolen from YOU and YOUR thread.
End of story.
-
Good lord what is up with some people on this forum these days??
Jacksonologist is a MOD for a start and I've known them since this all began 8 months ago.
She wasn't hijacking the thread, merely giving people the opportunity to read a blog someone made months ago which coincides with what many people have already said in this thread.
Nobody is POLICING you or making you do anything you don't want to do. Nobody is pointing a gun to your head and forcing you to go and read it.
Get over it!!
-
Patological conditions of prostatic gland, and particulary Prostatic Hyperplasia, has nothing to do with urine production (if the kidney function is conserved) but with its "elimination". So there's nothing weird with this patient having 550 g of urine in his bladder, when in fact this prostatic condition causes urine retention/ imposibility to get a completely empty bladder (among other symptoms), not alteration of urine production.
Bladder can not accumulate more than 350 milliliters of urine.
And when you have prostate disease, you need to go to bathroom often, you can't stay until the bladder is full.
And when you have a probe (doesn't matter if you're home or in ambulance), your bladder is emptied automatically, no more time to fill.
-
THE JACKSONOLOGIST didn't hijack anything, was only referring to a previous similar theory. There's nothing wrong with that, and no need to feel offended because of that. The fact that THE JACKSONOLOGIST is a mod has nothing to do with it, it's done by regular members also.
Please, let's just have a nice and decent discussion...and back on topic please...
-
Michael has 2 Driver's Licenses under 2 different names and pictures....all part of the plan!!! Tat may be why he wore a mask so that our recall would be unclear.
Also, as someone mentioned, the autopsy ID Michael with his Driver's License photo.
I recall that a forum member did a really good compartive that proved Michael has 2 Driver;s Licemses...like one titled Michael J. Jackson and the other one titled Michael Joe Jackson....or something like that.
That comparison was done in the old forum so maybe someone can find it? It's late here and I have an early day tomorrow.
:shock: :?:
c@A forum
I'm sure that one was expired / invalid and when he got a new one the number was changed. Mine was changed. It's not a stretch.
-
I found some interesting comments written by annieisnotokey. She says the following about the theory she is developing/has developed,
'In a nut shell, this is the go to theory in desperate times. As circumstances surrounding the case become more real, what can I think / concoct to still believe in a hoax?'
She also says,
'Additionally, any wild and outrageous accusations towards any characters in my theory come from my crazy mind. I don’t have any insider information at all on any level. I just have a vivid imagination.'
So this lady can't prove any of her theories and she admits she creates the theories to escape what is becoming real - reality.
-
Well, I don't know if we are allowed to discuss this subject, since people think it is a rude/graphic/too much info/too sensitive topic (and I can understand them), but I just need to clarify (I'm gonna be careful with the words I will use, and I'm not going to go too deep into this, promisse.)
And when you have prostate disease, you need to go to bathroom often, you can't stay until the bladder is full.
That is correct. You cited one of the symptoms: "go to bathroom often" (urinary urgency). But this patients have/ could have also dribbling after urination, urinary retention, incomplete bladder emptying, incontinence, need to urinate at night, blood in urine, difficulty beginning urination, need for force to urinate, sudden urinary urgency and weak urinary stream.
And when you have a probe (doesn't matter if you're home or in ambulance), your bladder is emptied automatically, no more time to fill.
Not necesarily. michaelsupporter said earlier in this thread (page 1):
An external, or condom catheter, only captures urine as it is expelled from the body during the act of peeing-whether voluntary or not. Usually it is used for incontinence of urine.
An internal catheter is inserted into the bladder and drains urine continuously.
This patient has been catheterized with the first one type of catheter, so his bladder is not "emptied automatically" at all.
I'm sorry if I've disrespected anyone by posting this, I did not meant to. It's just technical info about no one in particular.
-
I found some interesting comments written by annieisnotokey. She says the following about the theory she is developing/has developed,
'In a nut shell, this is the go to theory in desperate times. As circumstances surrounding the case become more real, what can I think / concoct to still believe in a hoax?'
She also says,
'Additionally, any wild and outrageous accusations towards any characters in my theory come from my crazy mind. I don’t have any insider information at all on any level. I just have a vivid imagination.'
So this lady can't prove any of her theories and she admits she creates the theories to escape what is becoming real - reality.
This is a theory....it was never meant to be true (but it may be now! LOL)....she put it in a sort of story to make it more interesting.....We all have our own theories, but that doesnt make us crazy....she was just trying to figure out what happened on the 25th... like the rest of us.....I posted a separate thread on this btw...
-
Well, I don't know if we are allowed to discuss this subject, since people think it is a rude/graphic/too much info/too sensitive topic (and I can understand them), but I just need to clarify (I'm gonna be careful with the words I will use, and I'm not going to go too deep into this, promisse.)
And when you have prostate disease, you need to go to bathroom often, you can't stay until the bladder is full.
That is correct. You cited one of the symptoms: "go to bathroom often" (urinary urgency). But this patients have/ could have also dribbling after urination, urinary retention, incomplete bladder emptying, incontinence, need to urinate at night, blood in urine, difficulty beginning urination, need for force to urinate, sudden urinary urgency and weak urinary stream.
And when you have a probe (doesn't matter if you're home or in ambulance), your bladder is emptied automatically, no more time to fill.
Not necesarily. michaelsupporter said earlier in this thread (page 1):
An external, or condom catheter, only captures urine as it is expelled from the body during the act of peeing-whether voluntary or not. Usually it is used for incontinence of urine.
An internal catheter is inserted into the bladder and drains urine continuously.
This patient has been catheterized with the first one type of catheter, so his bladder is not "emptied automatically" at all.
I'm sorry if I've disrespected anyone by posting this, I did not meant to. It's just technical info about no one in particular.
Why would you disrespect?
My father has had some problems with is prostate and he had ALL of those symptoms...I felt so bad for him...
-
Dont know if anyone else has said this yet, probably- this is already on page 6/7 and i haven't read past page 1.. so sorry if i am repeating but stuff has just hit me! AND I SHOULD HAVE SEEN THESE SIGNS STRAIGHT AWAY!!!!
The whole death scene- its totally classic of a terminally ill (Cancer?) patient. The O2 tanks, the prayer beads, the toothpaste and wash bag next to the bed (washing terminal poorly patients bed bathed because they do not have the strength/too ill to get up), the Condom Catheter and incontinence pads.. wowowowow Sorry guys but i cant believe i didn't see this earlier.
-
Dont know if anyone else has said this yet, probably- this is already on page 6/7 and i haven't read past page 1.. so sorry if i am repeating but stuff has just hit me! AND I SHOULD HAVE SEEN THESE SIGNS STRAIGHT AWAY!!!!
The whole death scene- its totally classic of a terminally ill (Cancer?) patient. The O2 tanks, the prayer beads, the toothpaste and wash bag next to the bed (washing terminal poorly patients bed bathed because they do not have the strength/too ill to get up), the Condom Catheter and incontinence pads.. wowowowow Sorry guys but i cant believe i didn't see this earlier.
Yep!! A bed ridden person!! OMG!! LOL!!!
MJ didnt exactly look like he was bed ridden did he? LAst time I checked, bed ridden people dont usually get out of bed to go dance and sing..or brush their teeth go to the bathroom,,,
-
Good lord what is up with some people on this forum these days??
Jacksonologist is a MOD for a start and I've known them since this all began 8 months ago.
She wasn't hijacking the thread, merely giving people the opportunity to read a blog someone made months ago which coincides with what many people have already said in this thread.
Nobody is POLICING you or making you do anything you don't want to do. Nobody is pointing a gun to your head and forcing you to go and read it.
Get over it!!
Hi Rowdy,
My name is both White Orchid ...and Good Karma.
You and I both post on Rach's forum as well as Souza's forum.
Not too many people know of my 2 forum names, coincidently annieisnotokay, Rach and a few others know, but it doesn't matter really.
After the Jacksonologist today, I decided to close both forum accounts today. I pm'd Souza and later I repied to Rach's pm, I decided to check responses to my Good Karma posts, and well surprise, surprise...you had responsed to my Good Karma posts, but...your rowdy responses were just plagaerized, exact copies of my posts on Souza's forum!!!
Not cool, rowdy.
I'm flattered that you like my posts enough to pass them off as your own, so don't worry, I give you permission to use my posts anytime as imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. :roll:
I just did a copy past of your response on Rach's forum...you can read my earlier posts on this thread for my original post.
Ordinarily, I wouldn't even care but I draw your attention to your nasty quote and thought that you might want to consider other people's feelings before you sound off. Genuine people are contributing genuine thoughts towards a common goal.
Your core values don't match your image, rowdy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
rowdyangel
Post subject: Re: Some General Observations
New postPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:28 pm
Offline
Gold Member
User avatar
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:42 pm
Posts: 401
Location: Michael's Heart
On a serious note, I can see what you are all saying about the urine thing.
It also states somewhere in the report that there was "urinary retention" as a result of a slightly enlarged prostate. Now I'm no doctor either BUT I thought that an enlarged prostate made you pee more than usual so I am confused about:
- Amount of urine in the bladder
- Catheter
- Amount of urine in cup
- Dehydration - if you're peeing that much you're not dehydrated.
I too am curious to know if there was a bathroom leading from this bedroom. To me, after the identification by driving license, this is the biggest hole in the report.
_________________
JB. (STILL keeping The Faith and searching for The Truth since June 25th 2009!!!)
http://twitter.com/rowdyangel (http://twitter.com/rowdyangel)
Image
"Michael, I am here for you always. I give you my heart, my soul and I offer you my friendship."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Tssk, tssk, tssk.
-
This is not the place for personal fights, solve your problems in PM please.
This thread will be locked.