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[~Souza~]

I can say 'evolution is stupid and ignorant and biased and I think that evolution was invented by satan to make sure people would distance themselves from God'. But if I say that, I have to back up that claim or else it's just that: an opinion without a solid foundation it's built on. .

If there is no God, there is no Satan. It is simple.

However, we can call it ying and yang, woman and man, white and black. The fact that we talk about opposites imply that we need one another.
If there is no evil, we don´t know what good is and viceversa.

The problem here is that sects are losing power. They use the "word of God" and anything opposite is evil and must be doomed, they are scared.

Michael showed all the religious symbols together for a reason.

Atheists do not try to split up groups but theists do it all the time, between their own beliefs. "My God is better than yours" , "I have the truth, not you" said the Opus Dei to the Jehova...

Continuation of back & Front thread from MJDHI Let's continue in there.

[MissG]

I replied to Jono 1 line and you replied to me again here about the subject you decided to keep somewhere else, Souza. Gave the impression that here is fine for all to read as well.

I got clear where every one stands, so thanks to all.  :bearhug: It´s always nice to read what others think.

Jeeezzzz, Next time I rather use voice chat. I can´t type no more.

I´ll register tomorrow. Late here

Untill the next time!

[trublu]

That's the only way one can really succeed, Michael is a real BELIEVER in every possible aspect.

In deed. He was a believer in himself. That´s why he came so far in what he had chosen.

And all this because "it's all for L.O.V.E. "

"I am going to say something I have never said before and this is the truth. I have no reason to lie to you and God knows I am telling the truth. I think all my success and fame and I have wanted it, I have wanted it because I wanted to be loved. That's all. That's the real truth. I wanted people to love me, truly love me, because I never really felt loved. I said I know I have an ability. Maybe if I sharpened my craft, maybe people will love me more. I just wanted to be loved because I think it is very important to be loved and to tell people that you love them and to look in their eyes and say it."  (the MJ tapes)

That was a moment of sincerity. What beats me is why he was so unsure about the others love for him. We, ordinary people, have reasons to be uncertain we are loved, but him?? And how much of the love he had from his fans was REJECTED by him, how much love he felt it was fake? Maybe he thought he was loved for his money, not for himself??
My God, if a human being received real love, that human being is Michael Jackson. The love and devotion from fans ALL OVER THE WORLD can not be compared with any other artist's who ever lived. And he wanted to be loved :suspect:.
I am sorry Michael, I don't get it.

You don't get it? Who was loved all over the world? Michael Jackson the man, or Michael Jackson the performer? Don't you understand how that would make him question that love? As he sings in Behind the mask: "WHO do you love? Is it me? Well? I don't know." I understand very well that he did not know. Was it because they liked his songs, or his gold pants, or his hair? Or whatever else that made MJ the performer, or did people really love HIM? Michael, the person off stage. The man, not the performer. I can understand really well that he had trouble with that. As much as the fans love him, and I do believe it's sincere, they love MJ the Performer, because that is the person they know. I don't think anyone knew the real him, he was too private for that. Glimpses of the true Michael, sure, but not the whole real package. I bet he even isn't sure about the friends that REALLY love HIM for who he is, it's hard to know for sure they are sincere. It all comes down to his trust in people and that is something that has been violated so many times. I understand it very well.

I think he was truly loved as a performer and as the person behind the performer. Fans aren't that stupid to not see he displayed a mask on the public scene. They love him in spite of his flaws. They would defend and love him no matter what.
I think he is old enough to be able to understand he is TRULY loved, even behind his mask.
Allow me to use myself as an example. I am very much aware and I've always been aware of his acting on the public "stage". I posted about it years ago on the official forum and suffered the consequences  :Crash:.
I know he's not entirely an angel but I love him in spite of it. I am sure other fans are also able to see behind his masks. I was reading long time ago fans' posts about GP and how Mike was perfectly aware of the "damage" he caused by wearing those in concerts. Not exactly an angel would do that, isn't it? Or let's talk about his dance signature move. Is that what an "angel" of a man would do? No, and we know it well. I do my best to come in his defense by explaining to whomever wants to listen that it's a gesture of defiance, but we all know it's also "not very nice when you think about it", to quote the man himself. (My husband's delight is to joke about it - he says everything is OK with Mike except that he's always looking for his genitals to see if he still got them :icon_eek: :icon_lol: - sorry Mike I had to laugh about it). Fact is we who love Mike accept kind of EVERYTHING coming from him exactly because we love the man behind the mask, we see behind the mask, maybe only glimpses but we can still make an image of the entire "package".

Gina, you really think you are representative for the MJ fan community? Just look at .net, where they say that if Front was Michael, they would stop being fans. They are saying that there love is conditional and that if Michael isn't exactly the person they want him to be, that they wouldn't love him anymore. Lots of fans on MJJC think it's alright to slander his family and most of all his mother, the one person in the world that probably loves him more than life itself. Is that love and respect for Michael? I don't think so. I can totally understand that Michael lacked trust in who loved him and who loved just the entertainer, the public persona.

I have to add that my love for MJ or anyone I have never met is also conditional.

I suppose it's different for me because I've never been a 'fan' so to speak - although I appreciated his music and the person. (and still do hopefully)...

But I find it bizarre to love somebody unconditionally that we have never even met..

It is perfectly fine and reasonable in my opinion to doubt those that we do not know personally.

That is my opinion and I'm sticking to it!

That means you don't love HIM, but the persona. Loving a persona is indeed conditional, because if that persona is nothing like you imagine, you might change your opinion. That means that the fans do not love Michael the man, they love MJ the performer. If they love the man, their love would be unconditional because it would mean they know him and accept him even if he has flaws, but they are actually saying he can't have flaws. You don't have to meet a person to know a person. A face is just a face. Love can be expressed in different ways, characters can peek through the tiniest holes. I believe in love without sight, lol. And I believe that when you say that your love is conditional, that it's not real love. But don't mind me, I am naive and I believe in fairytales and I believe every person has enough love to give for the whole universe.

I do suppose you're right souza and it's interesting to me what you have to say.

I can say that I love mankind, but indeed I do find it it difficult to love and trust 100% somebody that I have never met. I am just trying to be honest really..but I am really trying anyway.

I don't understand why you said you're naive and about fairytails because I didn't suggest that and I don't think it.

Anyhow thank you for giving another angle to me on my thoughts.

[sweetsunsetwithMJ]

Only in America: Piers Morgan on Michael Jackson, the artist (video) | Legendary Michael Jackson Fan Club

I would like Michael to expose all his drawings and art, it would be very interesting!  :woohoo2:  This way we would learn his way of thinking and his way to see life  :icon_e_geek:

[~Souza~]

That means you don't love HIM, but the persona. Loving a persona is indeed conditional, because if that persona is nothing like you imagine, you might change your opinion. That means that the fans do not love Michael the man, they love MJ the performer. If they love the man, their love would be unconditional because it would mean they know him and accept him even if he has flaws, but they are actually saying he can't have flaws. You don't have to meet a person to know a person. A face is just a face. Love can be expressed in different ways, characters can peek through the tiniest holes. I believe in love without sight, lol. And I believe that when you say that your love is conditional, that it's not real love. But don't mind me, I am naive and I believe in fairytales and I believe every person has enough love to give for the whole universe.

I do suppose you're right souza and it's interesting to me what you have to say.

I can say that I love mankind, but indeed I do find it it difficult to love and trust 100% somebody that I have never met. I am just trying to be honest really..but I am really trying anyway.

I don't understand why you said you're naive and about fairytails because I didn't suggest that and I don't think it.

Anyhow thank you for giving another angle to me on my thoughts.

Oh I am not saying YOU think that or said that, it's what people in general think of me. I just think love and trust don't need faces. I have loved and trusted faces and have been deceived, and I have loved and trusted people without a face the last 3 years who I still love and trust, despite differences we might have had.

[trublu]

That means you don't love HIM, but the persona. Loving a persona is indeed conditional, because if that persona is nothing like you imagine, you might change your opinion. That means that the fans do not love Michael the man, they love MJ the performer. If they love the man, their love would be unconditional because it would mean they know him and accept him even if he has flaws, but they are actually saying he can't have flaws. You don't have to meet a person to know a person. A face is just a face. Love can be expressed in different ways, characters can peek through the tiniest holes. I believe in love without sight, lol. And I believe that when you say that your love is conditional, that it's not real love. But don't mind me, I am naive and I believe in fairytales and I believe every person has enough love to give for the whole universe.

I do suppose you're right souza and it's interesting to me what you have to say.

I can say that I love mankind, but indeed I do find it it difficult to love and trust 100% somebody that I have never met. I am just trying to be honest really..but I am really trying anyway.

I don't understand why you said you're naive and about fairytails because I didn't suggest that and I don't think it.

Anyhow thank you for giving another angle to me on my thoughts.

Oh I am not saying YOU think that or said that, it's what people in general think of me. I just think love and trust don't need faces. I have loved and trusted faces and have been deceived, and I have loved and trusted people without a face the last 3 years who I still love and trust, despite differences we might have had.

Ah ok but on the forum here I don't think the majority think this..I think we are all greatfull for this place to come together with out thoughts.

I want to more think more like the way you think - it would help me a lot it life! I am trying so much right now to do just that. (not just here but in my personal life too to be more trusting).

It's true that faces mean nothing really at the end of the day...

[~Souza~]

I didn't mean the people in here, because people on the forum don't really know much about me. Souza is also a 'persona' and there is a person behind it that not many on here know. I was talking about the people in my 'real' life that keep asking why I'm not married yet. They don't understand that I don't settle for less than true love.

[blankie]

That's the only way one can really succeed, Michael is a real BELIEVER in every possible aspect.

In deed. He was a believer in himself. That´s why he came so far in what he had chosen.

And all this because "it's all for L.O.V.E. "

"I am going to say something I have never said before and this is the truth. I have no reason to lie to you and God knows I am telling the truth. I think all my success and fame and I have wanted it, I have wanted it because I wanted to be loved. That's all. That's the real truth. I wanted people to love me, truly love me, because I never really felt loved. I said I know I have an ability. Maybe if I sharpened my craft, maybe people will love me more. I just wanted to be loved because I think it is very important to be loved and to tell people that you love them and to look in their eyes and say it."  (the MJ tapes)

That was a moment of sincerity. What beats me is why he was so unsure about the others love for him. We, ordinary people, have reasons to be uncertain we are loved, but him?? And how much of the love he had from his fans was REJECTED by him, how much love he felt it was fake? Maybe he thought he was loved for his money, not for himself??
My God, if a human being received real love, that human being is Michael Jackson. The love and devotion from fans ALL OVER THE WORLD can not be compared with any other artist's who ever lived. And he wanted to be loved :suspect:.
I am sorry Michael, I don't get it.

You don't get it? Who was loved all over the world? Michael Jackson the man, or Michael Jackson the performer? Don't you understand how that would make him question that love? As he sings in Behind the mask: "WHO do you love? Is it me? Well? I don't know." I understand very well that he did not know. Was it because they liked his songs, or his gold pants, or his hair? Or whatever else that made MJ the performer, or did people really love HIM? Michael, the person off stage. The man, not the performer. I can understand really well that he had trouble with that. As much as the fans love him, and I do believe it's sincere, they love MJ the Performer, because that is the person they know. I don't think anyone knew the real him, he was too private for that. Glimpses of the true Michael, sure, but not the whole real package. I bet he even isn't sure about the friends that REALLY love HIM for who he is, it's hard to know for sure they are sincere. It all comes down to his trust in people and that is something that has been violated so many times. I understand it very well.

I think he was truly loved as a performer and as the person behind the performer. Fans aren't that stupid to not see he displayed a mask on the public scene. They love him in spite of his flaws. They would defend and love him no matter what.
I think he is old enough to be able to understand he is TRULY loved, even behind his mask.
Allow me to use myself as an example. I am very much aware and I've always been aware of his acting on the public "stage". I posted about it years ago on the official forum and suffered the consequences  :Crash:.
I know he's not entirely an angel but I love him in spite of it. I am sure other fans are also able to see behind his masks. I was reading long time ago fans' posts about GP and how Mike was perfectly aware of the "damage" he caused by wearing those in concerts. Not exactly an angel would do that, isn't it? Or let's talk about his dance signature move. Is that what an "angel" of a man would do? No, and we know it well. I do my best to come in his defense by explaining to whomever wants to listen that it's a gesture of defiance, but we all know it's also "not very nice when you think about it", to quote the man himself. (My husband's delight is to joke about it - he says everything is OK with Mike except that he's always looking for his genitals to see if he still got them :icon_eek: :icon_lol: - sorry Mike I had to laugh about it). Fact is we who love Mike accept kind of EVERYTHING coming from him exactly because we love the man behind the mask, we see behind the mask, maybe only glimpses but we can still make an image of the entire "package".

Gina, you really think you are representative for the MJ fan community? Just look at .net, where they say that if Front was Michael, they would stop being fans. They are saying that there love is conditional and that if Michael isn't exactly the person they want him to be, that they wouldn't love him anymore. Lots of fans on MJJC think it's alright to slander his family and most of all his mother, the one person in the world that probably loves him more than life itself. Is that love and respect for Michael? I don't think so. I can totally understand that Michael lacked trust in who loved him and who loved just the entertainer, the public persona.

I have to add that my love for MJ or anyone I have never met is also conditional.

I suppose it's different for me because I've never been a 'fan' so to speak - although I appreciated his music and the person. (and still do hopefully)...

But I find it bizarre to love somebody unconditionally that we have never even met..

It is perfectly fine and reasonable in my opinion to doubt those that we do not know personally.

That is my opinion and I'm sticking to it!

That means you don't love HIM, but the persona. Loving a persona is indeed conditional, because if that persona is nothing like you imagine, you might change your opinion. That means that the fans do not love Michael the man, they love MJ the performer. If they love the man, their love would be unconditional because it would mean they know him and accept him even if he has flaws, but they are actually saying he can't have flaws. You don't have to meet a person to know a person. A face is just a face. Love can be expressed in different ways, characters can peek through the tiniest holes. I believe in love without sight, lol. And I believe that when you say that your love is conditional, that it's not real love. But don't mind me, I am naive and I believe in fairytales and I believe every person has enough love to give for the whole universe.

@Gema, if you would actually register on the other forum, we could take it there. You keep responding here so I keep answering here. I will stop that now.

I have moved...unfortunately for me it's a bit difficult to participate much...my english...grrrrrrr..
I just say that Michael is something extraordinary,and who has the intelligence not to stop at appearances and realized its great simplicity and humanity, is  fortunate.

We are fortunate : this union between us , this desire to always meet here, every day, after 3 years is a huge gift of Mike  :bearhug:  :moonwalk_:

....and...I never tire of saying it...THANKS SOUZA...for your patience, your L.O.V.E., your passion...this site is wonderful , every day more..

LOVE YOU ALL FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART

[Front]

Everlastinglove:

I can imagine that Michael was longing for genuine love because of who he really is. That's why he loves the unprejudiced pure love of kids because they still know that although he was no no longer the "Ben" singing "little Michael" he is still the same person inside. I think it was very tough to have doubts about people's real intentions constantly.

Souza:

You don't get it? Who was loved all over the world? Michael Jackson the man, or Michael Jackson the performer? Don't you understand how that would make him question that love? As he sings in Behind the mask: "WHO do you love? Is it me? Well? I don't know." I understand very well that he did not know. Was it because they liked his songs, or his gold pants, or his hair? Or whatever else that made MJ the performer, or did people really love HIM? Michael, the person off stage. The man, not the performer. I can understand really well that he had trouble with that. As much as the fans love him, and I do believe it's sincere, they love MJ the Performer, because that is the person they know. I don't think anyone knew the real him, he was too private for that. Glimpses of the true Michael, sure, but not the whole real package. I bet he even isn't sure about the friends that REALLY love HIM for who he is, it's hard to know for sure they are sincere. It all comes down to his trust in people and that is something that has been violated so many times. I understand it very well.

[Front]

Frontier... Hope you're still with us.  ...how's that drawing coming along? :icon_geek:

more pictures Front, please? :icon_mrgreen:

Let's see...  :icon_e_confused:
mmmkay, quick sketch.......

[~Souza~]

Frontier... Hope you're still with us.  ...how's that drawing coming along? :icon_geek:

more pictures Front, please? :icon_mrgreen:

Let's see...  :icon_e_confused:
mmmkay, quick sketch.......

Oh dear... I'm holding my breath and putting on a diaper. That sounds like you're up to something.

[paula-c]

Everlastinglove:

I can imagine that Michael was longing for genuine love because of who he really is. That's why he loves the unprejudiced pure love of kids because they still know that although he was no no longer the "Ben" singing "little Michael" he is still the same person inside. I think it was very tough to have doubts about people's real intentions constantly.

Souza:

You don't get it? Who was loved all over the world? Michael Jackson the man, or Michael Jackson the performer? Don't you understand how that would make him question that love? As he sings in Behind the mask: "WHO do you love? Is it me? Well? I don't know." I understand very well that he did not know. Was it because they liked his songs, or his gold pants, or his hair? Or whatever else that made MJ the performer, or did people really love HIM? Michael, the person off stage. The man, not the performer. I can understand really well that he had trouble with that. As much as the fans love him, and I do believe it's sincere, they love MJ the Performer, because that is the person they know. I don't think anyone knew the real him, he was too private for that. Glimpses of the true Michael, sure, but not the whole real package. I bet he even isn't sure about the friends that REALLY love HIM for who he is, it's hard to know for sure they are sincere. It all comes down to his trust in people and that is something that has been violated so many times. I understand it very well.

... I remember that one of the thread with more "success", by the number of pages in the published photos,wrote things and began to fly the imagination was a pants of gold ... :-[

[Front]

:icon_lol:

[~Souza~]

:icon_lol:

:thjajaja121: :thjajaja121: :thjajaja121:

I was hoping for that picture with the newspaper, the note and the body paint though...

[skyways]

:icon_lol:

:LolLolLolLol: :thjajaja121: :icon_lol:

Yeah...  MIKEY = lil MON-key  @@@

what we can expect more?)))))

With LOVE@ as Teacher said))