From Moonwalker to TII

[~Souza~]

Ok, here is a thought I haven't thought more about yet, but I'll throw it in to see what you all come up with.

Moonwalker starts with Man in the Mirror, TII ends with it. Makes me think everything in between was an illusion, including his so called death. There is more I think about Moonwalker but that is for a different discussion.

So anyway, Moonwalker was released on 10/29/1988, TII on 10/28/2009. In between is exactly 21 years if you count the end date: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

I know there are not 7's in everything and I am not going to calculate stuff in a hundred different ways, but I will point out the obvious: 21 is 3 x 7 or 777. Then there is something else that is weird. If you look at the albums released in this illusion period, there are 3; Dangerous, HIStory and Invincible. HIStory was 2 disc, disc 2 was the actual new album. I know there were tons more albums, but I do not count in all the remix stuff and greatest hits etc. All three albums are 77 minutes long: 76:58, 77:06 & 77:10. Yes, maybe that is a coincidence but looking at all other albums, including the new Michael album, they have all been between 30 and 45 minutes.

So I'd like to see more thought about this 'Illusion Period' between 1988 and 2009.

[Carrie]

I don't know if this has been discussed or if it is relevant at all, but Michael's song Heal The World is 6 minutes and 25 seconds long on the Essential album.
On the albums Dangerous (where the song is number 7) & History the song is listed as 6 minutes and 24 seconds long. But on Wikipedia, under the Dangerous album and track listing, the length of the song is listed as 6 minutes and 25 seconds.

[blankie]

Thanks Souza  :icon_razz:

I have always believed that all this is not a mere coincidence and always I am speechless in front of the genius of Michael....is something absolutely extraordinary  :moonwalk_:

This is the reason why I never tire of this great adventure.

And to continue with the "coincidences".... Man in the mirror ... 14 letters... obvious  :icon_mrgreen: 7+7  :icon_mrgreen:

[~Souza~]

Really? Only 2 replies? I thought this is worth looking into.

[Carrie]

I know this has nothing to do with the albums Bad, Dangerous, History or Invincible, and maybe it has been discussed already and I have overlooked it. And maybe it doesn’t bring anything new to the investigation of the hoax that will make anything clearer, but I have always had the lyrics to 2300 Jackson Street in the back of my mind, especially Rebbie’s lyrics.
 
The song was released after Bad, in 1989, and it was the only song on the 2300 Jackson Street album which featured Michael. It might have nothing to do with the hoax, only The Jacksons’ journey and what they became, or it was an indication of what was to come, I don’t know…? Maybe the lyrics have double meanings?

Rebbie's lyrics;
"Remember we always said, if we got a chance we will plan our work and work our master plan."

"Although the road of life is tough it has its ups and downs
We are the one and all, If we stay together we can conquer all.
We are united and standing strong and still today, we’re one big family."

Some of Michael's lyrics;
"I will always find my way back home."


Just putting the thought out there..

[marumjj]

The 'Illusion Period' of a little over 20 years, was a process of revolution, I see it in the songs, which reflect the events of his life during those years. Were times when MJ, began to develop the idea of ending his career. The only reason MJ knows, the fact is that when announced TII, says: "This is the moment, this is it" which does not seem a triumphant announcement, after years off the stage. Rather, it is the official announcement that the plan was on. Now Xscape confirmed.

[curls]

... So I'd like to see more thought about this 'Illusion Period' between 1988 and 2009.

Surely we are still in the 'Illusion Period'?  I think you're trying to force fit 7's!

But I concede your 21 years/777 connection does exist, and, if intentional, that could mean 'death date' (or at least, film related to 'death') was fixed way back with Moonwalker (which is what I understand you to be implying), or it could be explained in a number of other ways, or it could be another happy coincidence!

I'd happily forget about 'the numbers thing', because it's so open to misinterpretation and over-use, if it weren't for that infamous red TII shirt that he tantalisingly, deliberately added 777 to ... and 9282 ... and 2040 ... 

Damn, I'm thinking about numbers again now!

I guess the puzzling question for me with these numbers, is were they just 'thrown in' as a little extra, sort of retrospectively, (2009: "I'll release TII on 28/10 because I've spotted that'll make a 777 with Moonwalker") or were they placed there intentionally from the start (1988: "In 21 years I'll release my 'death film' to make a 777 with Moonwalker")?  Or as I just said, are they (certainly the 'flimsier' ones) simply happy coincidence?

I know numbers have got a place in the hoax, and if that early TMZ article highlighting all the 7's in MJ's life meant anything at all, I could be coaxed into saying he'll be back after 7 years!  Did I really just say that? LOL!

[InPotencyToYourAct]

Well, the "777" digit looks like inverted triple L -- three Ls.
Which brings to mind thrill(er).
It´s a thrillusion. :icon_e_smile:

[RememberHisTime]

... So I'd like to see more thought about this 'Illusion Period' between 1988 and 2009.

Surely we are still in the 'Illusion Period'?

I tend to agree with curls. I think we all know that MJ was very interested in illusion prior to completing Moonwalker. Illusion is a general term, and it makes me think too about IMAGE, i.e. his public image versus his private image. Any entertainer is going to be concerned about that, MJ most of all, and he has been in the business since around age 5 I think. So he had already been thinking about protecting his privacy and what illusions he needed to create in order to do so, well before Moonwalker.

Illusion could also refer to the "escape" MJ always wanted to provide his fans, or the "magic" experienced in a performance. So yes, a hoax would be part of that. It's hard to know when MJ first had an idea for the hoax, as opposed to when the hoax (as an illusion) actually began. I am nowhere near figuring that out! I personally think we lose sight of the essence of the hoax when we get mired down in Numerology. Whether you give credit to that or not, I don't think it's a very important aspect. The presence of 7s, if you believe in Numerology, could provide clues or hints but they can't EXPLAIN the intricacies of MJ's master plan.

For those of us still here, I assume we all still believe that the hoax is ongoing and that MJ is indeed still alive. So, for me, we are still in the Illusion Period.

Edit: I was curious, Souza, why you did not include Blood on the Dance Floor in your considerations? You mentioned HIStory which had both old and new songs. As you know there were remixes on Blood but also some new tracks.

[whatyourheartsays]

I don't think we're in the illusion period still... We got out of it in 2009, since MJ started to expose everything that WAS illusion. Believers we can consider the Death Hoax is an illusion, but i think it is more like the end of another illusion, the one that was playing in MJ's life.

It's like the image is now reflected. One illusion is ended to set place to another one. One illusion ends the other, like a mirror.

It is made so that you don't know what side is the reality, and what side is the illusion. Is the Death an illusion, or was it the events that happen before ?

[luvandmissumike]

curls - " I know numbers have got a place in the hoax, and if that early TMZ article highlighting all the 7's in MJ's life meant anything at all, I could be coaxed into saying he'll be back after 7 years!  Did I really just say that? LOL!"

7 YEARS  :Pulling_hair:  GOD i hope not, but who knows, esp. when u think of elvis & tupac  :errrr:

[michaelslady]

Its hard to make since of any of this most days. Sometimes I sit and wonder if its logical that he could he have planned every single little clue that we find. I'm so confused  :screaming-7365:

[~Souza~]

I don't think we're in the illusion period still... We got out of it in 2009, since MJ started to expose everything that WAS illusion. Believers we can consider the Death Hoax is an illusion, but i think it is more like the end of another illusion, the one that was playing in MJ's life.

It's like the image is now reflected. One illusion is ended to set place to another one. One illusion ends the other, like a mirror.

It is made so that you don't know what side is the reality, and what side is the illusion. Is the Death an illusion, or was it the events that happen before ?

EXACTLY what I mean. The illusion stopped in 2009. The illusion that was Michael Jackson stopped and from 'death' on , piece by piece the illusion has been revealed. The ones still believing he is dead are living in an illusion.

I think it was planned from Moonwalker on, maybe even before that. And maybe death wasn't even the plan, maybe something else was and death was necessary or a better plan. But something was planned for a lot of days and yes, a lot of numbers and dates really do mean something. What I was referring to was desperate attempts to get a 7 out of something, I have never disputed the clear numbers thrown in our faces.

[~Souza~]

Forgot to say: Blood on the Dancefloor was a remix album, not a new one: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Maybe nothing, but the new album is ultra short but still 77 in a way: 34:52 minutes: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login)

[whatyourheartsays]

Let's do some storm in my brain (which is already quite messy)

if we're in a "mirror illusion", the time of "hoaxing" should be equal to the time of illusion before hoax, considering death is THE MOMENT... but how do we find the beginning in ending ? We already know it's 5 years since the X moment (25th june) where illusions twisted. So we can at least search 5 years before 2009, which leads to 2004. This would mean the trial was part of the illusion, of the lies about MJ. Maybe go back 7 years before 2009 and this would mean hoax would end 7 years after ?

in 2002 : Blanket was born, MJ was dad for 3rd time. Was it the moment he choosed to prepare a new start for his life ? he disappeared when his boy was 7. Maybe end the hoax when his boy is 14 ?