Sony is Behind the Hoax and MJ is Dead

[Do]

Quote Bec:

Perhaps, as an example, or cornerstone, someone should offer up an undisputed FACT that exists in this world. Just a simple, random FACT so we can look for something like that in the death hoax investigation.  So, what is an example of a generally held n accepted FACT in life? 

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Fact: we're all born and we're all going to die one day. That is the most undisputed fact there is.

[iLoveyoumore]

When you murder someone as big as Michael Jackson you can't left evidence behind for public to find out about it. Why would we have any evidence of a carefully planned murder. I don't think we as outsiders could figure out much if it was a murder.

[sweetsunsetwithMJ]

Fact is that Michael was afraid, was talking about conspiracies all around him, and told family members that 'they' were going to kill him for his money/catalogues.

What makes this a Fact, in your opinion? Before you answer, please consider that statements are not Facts, other then it being a Fact that the speaker uttered certain words n phrases, but a statement itself is not a Fact, as example, courts consider statements hearsay and circumstantial evidence. The credibility of the witness needs to be taken into account. Not even if he said it under oath (as there exists the thing called perjury) does it render a statement a Fact.

Example: Gavin Arviso stated that MJ molested him. Fact?

Further example: MJ stated that he loves to tour -cut the tape-. Fact?

Michael never wanted Branca to be any part of his business EVER again.

Please expound? How do you know this? What makes you believe this is a Fact?

Murder is not 'impossible'. It is simply unsupported by the evidence to date. If you would like to dispute that, Do, please offer supportive evidence to the murder theory. Because to date, I don't believe we have seen any that makes the murder theory plausible.

Well, I believe Curls came up with this on a previous page in this thread,  but it would be a good idea to put all the EVIDENCE that Michael is still alive, in a list.
And that means no assumptions, but FACTS.

Perhaps, as an example, or cornerstone, someone should offer up an undisputed FACT that exists in this world. Just a simple, random FACT so we can look for something like that in the death hoax investigation.  So, what is an example of a generally held n accepted FACT in life? 

Ah, come on now guys - it's one thing to objectively reassess facts and genuine evidence and be prepared for them to lead to a possible different conclusion, but we should avoid employing over active imaginations and inventing new and totally unsupported scenarios.

Yes, agreed. It is easy for our imaginations to get carried away. We need to stay realistic. And debunking the same theory over n over again doesn't get us anywhere.

I think it's illegal to fake your death for money? Isn't that stated in Californian Law ?

Like this. Sorry @Thriller to use your post as an example but this one has been done to death since pretty much the day after D day. It is indeed illegal to fake your death in order to A) collect insurance money (life insurance or other death benefits), B) escape a court order, or C) evade taxes. Otherwise it's perfectly legal in the US to 'pretend' to be dead.

So how, in your opinion, would MJ have broken the law by hoaxing his death?

Before you answer, recall that none of the official MJJ merchandise sold states "RIP" or "in memory of" MJ or equivalent.

The mere fact that CM was so clumsy handling the alleged MJ overdose of Propofol, being hung on the cell phone with his girlfriend during 20 minutes, not being capable to practice CPR on him, etc..... could be just a pretext to seem innocent but the real intention was to leave Michael die, maybe we could be wrong and CM is the fall guy but the criminal too handled by THEM.

[Do]

^^^
Sweet, you're absolutely right, the way CM handled this is ofcourse VERY suspicious, and all eyes were on him after that. This could absolutely be a plausible murder theory.

[susieMJ]

Oh come on guys - if somebody rly murdered MJ, then this person (whoever it is) would do anything to avoid speculation, buzz and inconstances... A murder means no odd memorial, no body missing, no weird burial, no photoshopped photos (ambulance, autopsies...), no strange family's behaviour (because no! I do not believe that they would be a part of a murder plot), no Dave Dave and ridiculous death certificates, no trials, no toys... Nothing of that sort!!! And uhm...those things are all that this "death" is about... So please let's stay logical and though we know very well that the recent events weren't really optimistic, we shouldn't forget about everything we've learnt thoughout those past 4 years... Keep the faith and carry on

[bec]

No, MJ is not credible. I mentioned that earlier: "I love to tour" *cameras cut* "I hate to tour". He's not in the slightest bit credible. He's an actor. When's he acting? When's he telling the truth? No one besides himself, god, and possibly his mother know. So no, the man is anything but credible.

I'm sorry, you seem to be getting upset, Do. I'm just trying to point out anomalies.

Quote Bec:
QuotePerhaps, as an example, or cornerstone, someone should offer up an undisputed FACT that exists in this world. Just a simple, random FACT so we can look for something like that in the death hoax investigation.  So, what is an example of a generally held n accepted FACT in life? 

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Fact: we're all born and we're all going to die one day. That is the most undisputed fact there is.

. 
Yes, and that's about where it starts n ends. Now, do you think we are going to find any Facts in this investigation?

Not likely. But we still have Logic. And we should employ that as much as possible.

Bec, what I meant with fact is that what Michael was telling, we should take in consideration, rather then dismiss it because it's not fitting the hoax. For the hoax, we only have many assumptions and, I admit, some strange statements from family members put together. If I wasn't intriged by that, I wouldn't be here all these years.

I don't dismiss it, I actually think it fits in perfectly. It's like Moonwalker's plot.

As far as the murder theory, there's a reason it's never received major support. Why in the world would any murderer bother with orchestrating a fake hoax for years after the fact in order to cover up their crime? It's an absurd theory.

Not to mention the murder theory requires the entire Jackson Family to stand idly by and even participate in the murder's fake hoax, which really suggests that the Jacksons are all a bunch of psychopaths with no conscience and no sense of loss in MJ's death. This is also absurd. Sure maybe one or two psychopaths could be in an extended family, it could happen, but all of them? Every last one, down to the cousins and nephews? Even the 13-15 year old daughter? Come on. Now that to me is someone's imagination getting carried away with them.

We've already introduced powerful evidence that MJ's estate has profited the most from MJ's death and that Sony is largely owned/controlled by MJ, so the murder theory really doesn't make any sense because we lack motive and a perpetrator.

The mere fact that CM was so clumsy handling the alleged MJ overdose of Propofol, being hung on the cell phone with his girlfriend during 20 minutes, not being capable to practice CPR on him, etc..... could be just a pretext to seem innocent but the real intention was to leave Michael die, maybe we could be wrong and CM is the fall guy but the criminal too handled by THEM.

Who is THEM?

Why would Murray want to kill MJ? He was supposed to make half a mil/month or whatever. That's why he wasn't charged with murder. There's no motive for Murray to want MJ dead.

[bec]

@susieMJ, you posted while I was composing but right on.

[bec]

@bec,

It was a very general statement bec....i meant that Michael would very careful in these kind of legal stuff. that's it.

I'm sorry, I completely misread it then. My mistake and I agree with what you said here.

[Do]

No, MJ is not credible. I mentioned that earlier: "I love to tour" *cameras cut* "I hate to tour". He's not in the slightest bit credible. He's an actor. When's he acting? When's he telling the truth? No one besides himself, god, and possibly his mother know. So no, the man is anything but credible.

I'm not trying to be the smart ass here Bec but it was actually just the other way around: first he said he hated to tour, but was asked to be a bit more positive!

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[youtube]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E0SBTBcTDHo&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DE0SBTBcTDHo[/youtube]

I'm sorry, you seem to be getting upset, Do. I'm just trying to point out anomalies.

No I'm not upset, don't worry, I just want to consider all options, that's all. And I don't believe Michael was lying, certainly not on such important matters.

I don't dismiss it, I actually think it fits in perfectly. It's like Moonwalker's plot.

As far as the murder theory, there's a reason it's never received major support. Why in the world would any murderer bother with orchestrating a fake hoax for years after the fact in order to cover up their crime? It's an absurd theory.

Not to mention the murder theory requires the entire Jackson Family to stand idly by and even participate in the murder's fake hoax, which really suggests that the Jacksons are all a bunch of psychopaths with no conscience and no sense of loss in MJ's death. This is also absurd. Sure maybe one or two psychopaths could be in an extended family, it could happen, but all of them? Every last one, down to the cousins and nephews? Even the 13-15 year old daughter? Come on. Now that to me is someone's imagination getting carried away with them.

We've already introduced powerful evidence that MJ's estate has profited the most from MJ's death and that Sony is largely owned/controlled by MJ, so the murder theory really doesn't make any sense because we lack motive and a perpetrator.

Now, could it be possible that there isn't an intentional hoax after all? That we all created it in our own heads?

Why would Murray want to kill MJ? He was supposed to make half a mil/month or whatever. That's why he wasn't charged with murder. There's no motive for Murray to want MJ dead.

And what if he is going to be paid soooo much more by 'the clients'. I' m speculating ofcours.

[RememberHisTime]

No, MJ is not credible. I mentioned that earlier: "I love to tour" *cameras cut* "I hate to tour". He's not in the slightest bit credible. He's an actor. When's he acting? When's he telling the truth? No one besides himself, god, and possibly his mother know. So no, the man is anything but credible.

Too right Bec. Of course he's an actor. He loves controversy and disguises! Didn't someone say that MJ himself probably started the Elephant Man rumors and hyperbolic chamber rumors? Aside from all the chimo stuff I bet MJ secretly loves being talked about in the press--because as we all know, even bad press is good press if it holds the public's curiosity. And nothing piques curiosity like a mysterious death...

[bec]

@Do, I don't think you're being a smartass.  I have that department covered :icon_geek: 

It doesn't matter which way he said it, the point is he is not credible and that video is one piece of evidence that illustrates why I say he is not credible. At least not credible via media; video and taped statements/interviews. He's not the slightest bit credible via these mediums aka what we know of him. We know nothing about MJ's real life and who he really is, except that he's an actor and a showman. So no, he's not credible and his statements should all be taken with a grain of salt because we never know when he is play acting on camera/recording. You call it lying, I call it acting. He does it all the time. You can't trust a thing he says.

I think you mean 'the bosses' instead of 'the clients' but regardless, who is THEY? Who had a motive to bump off MJ and who stood to profit from it? You can speculate but there's plausible theories and then there are implausible ones. The murder theory never got off the ground because it is incomplete and non-linear. The death hoax persists after 4 years because it is linear and complete. Did we make it all up? Maybe, but that doesn't mean we should make up any more.

[sweetsunsetwithMJ]

The mere fact that CM was so clumsy handling the alleged MJ overdose of Propofol, being hung on the cell phone with his girlfriend during 20 minutes, not being capable to practice CPR on him, etc..... could be just a pretext to seem innocent but the real intention was to leave Michael die, maybe we could be wrong and CM is the fall guy but the criminal too handled by THEM.

Who is THEM?

THEM= ILLuminati, TPTB, or whatever you wanna call it.
 

Why would Murray want to kill MJ? He was supposed to make half a mil/month or whatever. That's why he wasn't charged with murder. There's no motive for Murray to want MJ dead.

In case it were a real murder then CM would have been hired tot kill Michael and remain innocent by acting in a clumsy way.

[bec]

Ok, why would TPTB want MJ dead?

MJ had less then zero cultural influence in 2009. Outside of his own fan base, that is. So why would TPTB even care about him anymore? They successfully destroyed him in 2005, if you want to make that a linear theory, his threat had been completely neutralized by the 2003 allegations and further by the 2005 media condemnation, and I'm sure TPTB have other areas of interest more pressing to deal with then some washed up 80's singer with a ruined reputation. I'm not seeing how this theory makes any sense.

[RK]

Bec said....

Ok, why would TPTB want MJ dead?

Many reasons.
He refused to be a puppet.
His message in lifestyle and lyrically was not condusive to TPTB agenda.
Then there was the blatant in their face routine at the end of Black or White and it seemed the gloves were off from that point.
MJ called them out publicly with TDRCAU. They weren't happy.
Also all the time Michael spent on the phone with Diana. Their phones would have been tapped. What exactly did she tell him that made him such a threat that they had to try and destroy any credibility  through the media lynching and public brain washing that ensued . The false allegations were set up to discredit him and divert all his attention to fighting for his life and drain his financial resources  while the world were force fed every humiliating morsel via the media, one of the tentacles  of TPTB .
When  Michael , who being  a black man had the audacity to buy the Beatles catalogue, I think that   marked  the timing of the beginning of this war. 

edit....sorry. Posted before reading the rest of Bec's post......So I'll go  with 'unfinished business'. Who knows what MJ might say when on stage with the  O2 arena full of adoring fans hanging on his every word. He might just still have enough fight inside to want to even up the playing field again.  Any one who sticks it to them through a vid like TDRCAU after the threat of the chandler saga is a fighter by nature and from the past they knew he wouldn't just  lie down and take it. There is always the possibility while living  that he may talk. I wonder if MJ made tapes of his convo's with Dianna?

After the "05 trial T-Mez told Michael to get out of the states and he did as we know. We heard very little from him right up till the time he arrived back and then it picked up where it left off pre exile, gaining momentum till death hoax day which rocked the planet like some nuclear blast and when everybody had recovered from the shell shock of grief and remorse, we find ourselves here 4 years later still. Now that's some power for a washed up entertainer who had zero cultural influence.  No....I say he was still a threat and they knew it.

[Thriller4ever]

@RK

 But there are many clues that say 'This is it' Gigs were never meant to happen. The one instance is Dr Murray's licence for practice in UK. It takes approx.  two months to get that licence and also one has to appear for some medical exam. I think this was paula-c's post in the Katherine v. AEG thread.